Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:03:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

To: geofft@mit.edu
Subject: Functional programmer

Dear Geoffrey,

      My name is [...] and I'm an IT recruiter at  [...]. Our records show
that you are an experienced IT professional with experience in _functional
languages_. This experience is relevant to one of my current openings.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:04:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

See ismith's zsig: (My favorite part of functional programming is
that it sounds like all other programming is dysfunctional. -geofft)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:04:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

People need functional programmers for IT?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:04:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was about to snark to that effect

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:04:54 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

or, alternatively, nonfunctional.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:05:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I think I prefer the contrast with dysfunctional.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:06:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm with dwilson on this one.  Dysfunctional code still quite often
works.  It's the other kind that annoys me

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:06:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Given that I just woke up, I'm not really feeling like a functional
programmer yet

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 13:07:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I suppose in that light sure; I was thinking a bit less about those
words as applied to code.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 14 14:25:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

The Splunk conference is named ".conf"? I don't know if that's dumb or
awesome

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 14 14:38:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1df59f0 V4L/DVB (7722): pvrusb2: Implement FM radio support for Gotview USB2.0 DVD 2 <nelhage>

I'm gonna go with dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:18:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

What are boat shoes?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:08 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:10 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

oh geofft

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. London 6/27-30. <tibbetts>

http://www.google.com/search?q=boat+shoes

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Yeah, I tried that, but it doesn't help.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Top-Sider-Authentic-Original-2-Eye/dp/B000EP8LV6

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"topsiders"

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

They look like shoes.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

topsiders?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: *waggle waggle waggle naked dance* - dvp <pbaranay>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_shoes

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:19:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. London 6/27-30. <tibbetts>

http://www.google.com/search?q=boat+shoes&tbm=isch

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:20:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The sole is different

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Jun 14 15:20:21 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. London 6/27-30. <tibbetts>

Their signature feature is a white nonmarking sole.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:43:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

All right, no more testing for a bit, Liz just krazy-glued her face

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:44:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:44:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Your employees are aweomse

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:44:40 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: 'Yes: malloc().' 'And it's nicer cousin, beneoc().' -oremanj, pbaranay <ismith>

Literally?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:44:48 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Those who mock me shall be the first to be eaten. -pbaranay <ismith>

Or is this some metaphorical t hing?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:44:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

As in literal krazy glue and literal Liz's face, yes

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:45:19 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Dreams are the subconscious mind's way of reminding people to go to school naked and have their teeth fall out. <asedeno>

I,I pics or it didn't happen.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:45:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do I need to come over there and supervise you two?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:45:45 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: China produces the world's second largest crop of soybeans. <asedeno>

I'm imagining a hand stuck to a face. Maybe it's not as bad as that.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:46:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:46:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It was less bad than that.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:46:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It just dabbe on my face.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:46:17 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: While the submarine is vastly superior to the boat in every way, over 97% of people still use boats for aquatic transportation. <asedeno>

Oh, good.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:46:24 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: You will never go into space. <asedeno>

(well, not good, but better?)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:48:17 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think the bigger question is why cyanoacrylate is required for AFS
testing

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:48:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Geoff's kidpc was falling apart.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:48:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... of course it was

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:48:48 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Because who doesn't just want to say "cyanoacrylate" as much as
possible?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:49:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Better cyanoacrylate than cyanoacrynever.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:49:56 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: laughter is used by mortals to indicate amusement -phurst <ismith>

Just don't cyanacrolate me to dinner.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:50:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

We apparently now have
debathena-points-and-laughs-when-you-hit-puberty

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:50:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

(geofft's voice cracked while singing to stars)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:50:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... did you also inhale the fumes from the
oh

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:10 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

The funny part is that you probably could write that package. It would
listen on the mic and detect voice cracks.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I was gonna test DKMS, but then I got high
I was gonna make Natty work, but then I got high
But now we're using Dropbox, and I know why
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Your KidPC is *already* falling apart? Shouldn't it be
~indestructible, given the audience?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It was a cosmetic piece, but geofft was sad that it kept breaking off.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:51:55 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I should have seen that coming

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:52:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:52:20 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I provide the Japanese, Ian provides the linguistics. -zhangc <ismith>

Build a better laptop, and they'll just build a better geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.ttants
Time: Tue Jun 14 16:52:30 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I wonder what happens when you strace someone's kids. -afarrell <ismith>

KidPC
kid-icarus

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Tue Jun 14 17:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I'm annoyed that when I renewed in 2010, my securid started requiring
a PIN

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Tue Jun 14 17:12:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

(it prompted me when I kinit'd the first time after getting a new
hardware token)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jun 14 17:13:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

"As many of you may be aware, there has been an increase in rodent
activity in the Stata Center recently."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 14 17:59:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Woo, I used gdb [the debugger] in an ASA-related conversation. Go me.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 14 18:00:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes, well, I accomplished the same thing with Python.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 14 18:00:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"And I use Python all the time for the ASA."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 20:59:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Augh. I hate that I want to do this on the build server.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:01:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:02:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I can't even use the build server!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:02:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have you poked somebody relevant about that?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:02:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I want to build a package for each distro and put it in an apt repo.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:02:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

And all the infrastructure exists on the build server and is effort
to set up elsewhere

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:03:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8d19c99 Split pgtable.h into pgtable_types.h and pgtable.h <nelhage>

"lunatique has it"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:03:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Haha. Do you really have build chroots for like maverick and natty?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:03:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

'Cause that would be a bit less annoying to use, really

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:03:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0686caa ndisc: Add missing strategies for per-device retrans timer/reachable time settings. <nelhage>

I think I am behind on creating chroots, and am missing maverick and
Natty.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:04:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2dd34b4 [PATCH] kbuild: permanently fix kernel configuration include mess <nelhage>

But I can see if my script works.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:20:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

The stuff in /mit/debathena/bin certainly works. I just don't really
want to do it

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:26:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

rlidwk
dkms

Class: geofft Instance: ttants.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 14 21:27:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you'd added the 'a' bit, you could have made "dsaklad" out of all
that.  Just sayin'...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 14 23:17:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Bah, I'm singing along a cappella bass parts or vocal perc to
everything I hear. I wonder if this will go away or get worse the
longer I go being not in an a cappella group

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec.mq.better-without-context
Time: Wed Jun 15 00:08:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

From: "Alec Lai (Next House President)" <next-president@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Replacement for Alec

no guys. lol

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec.mq.better-without-context
Time: Wed Jun 15 00:10:52 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Because votes of no confidence in senate bodies lead to Sith takeovers. -jdreed <ismith>

You disappoint me:
ismith@metonymy:~$ blanche prev-president
blanche: No such list while getting members of list prev-president
ismith@metonymy:~$ blanche next-next-president
blanche: No such list while getting members of list
next-next-president

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec.mq.better-without-context
Time: Wed Jun 15 00:18:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Jun 15 00:41:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Oooh! NetBSD vs. FreeBSD catfight!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Jun 15 00:41:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I think that's my cue to go home

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:46:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

There's a new Finboard chair? Am I really that out of it?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:51:19 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, really? Who?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:54:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

From: "Alexandria Hall (FinBoard Chair)" <ua-finboard-chairs@MIT.EDU>

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:54:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

She's the treasurer or something?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:56:08 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Entering: Haymarket. Change here for the Orange Line. Doors will open on the left. <stum>

yeah, she's the new UA treasurer. isn't treasurer finboard chair?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:56:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:56:29 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <remeyer>

it can be though

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:57:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, really? Is that a change in the new Finboard bylaws, or just
"there's nothing forbidding an officer from being a chair"?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Jun 15 13:59:39 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <remeyer>

I'm not positive how it lines up with other docs, but the Finboard
bylaws explicitly allow this (and allow you to have more members at
large if any of the ex-officio members are also chair/vice-chair)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:08:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Speaking of staff developers, I should e-mail touchstone-support.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:12:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i... don't want to know how that's relevant

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:12:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

rbasch.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:12:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, you mean BOb?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:12:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was worried you were going to start working on Touchstone or something

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Jun 15 14:52:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Okay, alpine's behavior replying to multiple messages sucks

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 15:16:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

About what?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 15:16:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, on touchstone-upport.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 15:32:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

scripts

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 15:33:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Hey Alex, can I get you in a conference call with touchstone-support?
:-)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 15:40:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uhhhh... Possibly? But, like, this should possibly wait until I'm
unhosed enough to deal afterwards.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:00:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Is this the point where someone makes a "Karl has altered the
initscript" joke?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:01:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:01:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

geofft, you haven't *seen* that movie.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:01:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

"hence 'someone'"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:02:01 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Randomites are like Eskimos, but for hugs instead of snow. -peairs <ismith>

geofft++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:02:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>geofft, you haven't *seen* that movie.


wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:02:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: My favorite part of functional programming is that it sounds like all other programming is dysfunctional. -geofft <ismith>

liz: So fix it.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:02:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

He's only seen A New Hope.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:03:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Don't make me open a bug.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:03:30 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 3 5 43605607 <cesium>

ismith: With what shall I fix it?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:03:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, really? And here I was going to make a joke about how at least
there was one clasic he'd seen...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:03:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, it could be worse, in that he could have only seen Phantom Menace

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:03:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, so you *also* haven't seen The Princess Bride?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:04:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I've also played through KoTOR. Which, combined with A New Hope, means
I have the strangest impressions of Star Wars canon

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:05:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Right, I know what we're doing after the next release team

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:05:23 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Unfortunately, there's no correlation to Moore's Law for sucking. <ismith>

Is KoTOR actually canon, or is it pseudo-canon?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:06:16 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's deliberately not canon at all, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:06:52 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I thought it was one of the lower levels of starwars
canon.  (They have levels.  No really.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:06:58 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:06:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, or Airplane?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:07:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Or Office Space?!!?!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:07:16 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: CLOUD COMPUTING IS OUT; SPACE COMPUTING IS IN. -broder <ismith>

kcr: right, that.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:07:23 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I'm going to turn on PROMISCUOUS GIRL. [pause] erm, MODE. -ezyang <ismith>

.....

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:07:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Or Donnie Darko?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:08:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Or *any* of Indiana Jones?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:08:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

It's canon in the Extended Universe? I'm not really sure, but I think
==kcr

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:08:27 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 3 857 508817 <cesium>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#The_Holocron

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:08:35 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Or Donnie Darko?

"Meh"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:08:54 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

We need a clockwork-orange-style education station.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

We can keep it in the sipb office.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:05 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Users would not be allowed ot borrow it.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"He also hasn't seen that"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Liz is going through this thing and judging me.
http://www.amazon.com/wishlist/3OF9U5AJIIC08/ref=cm_wl_rlist_go

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I see a bootstrap problem here

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:09:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

This is apparently the list of movies he hasn't seen. It's full of
fail.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:10:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

_SPACEBALLS_?  really?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:10:38 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: This whole thing is defective. It's caffeine-free. -mitchb <ismith>

Screw the Mel Gibson Hamlet, go watch the one with Dr. Who and Captain
Picard.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:10:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The list also fails for having Battlefield Earth on it

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:11:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:11:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is going on here?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:12:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You know, you could fix half of this by taking 21L.011

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:13:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I see there's a list.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:31:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Is there a good equivalent to vim's pattern of typing something,
moving elsewhere, and hitting "." to insert the same thing again?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 16:32:43 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Just normal kill-and-yank.

(Huh, I don't do that in vi.)

Class: geofft Instance: self.q
Time: Wed Jun 15 17:28:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

"I should comment on this Trac ticket so that I don't forget about
this as soon as I get off this couch"
[three minutes later]
"What was I doing? Oh, commenting on this Trac ticket"

Class: geofft Instance: self.q
Time: Wed Jun 15 17:29:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

lizdenys: "It's so hard to keep you on trac[k]."

Class: geofft Instance: self.q
Time: Wed Jun 15 17:29:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Pun not intended at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Wed Jun 15 18:02:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

I appear to be going to CBC at 7 with lizdenys/axs/ccpost?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Wed Jun 15 18:02:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Wed Jun 15 18:02:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

ykywt

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Anyone else we're waiting for?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:08:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

sondy is calling me a twinkie for the sport death eaters shirt

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:13:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Because you're a twinky, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:49:40 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

If you hit C-SPC before you start typing, then M-w will copy copy what
you wrote and C-y will yank it.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:50:03 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I wonder if anyone has written elisp to more closely duplicate that vi
behavior

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 19:52:21 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It looks like viper-mode has support for .

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 15 20:12:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Yeah,C-SPC and M-w is probably what I want

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun 15 22:04:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

"If this sounds interesting, send us an email to
meetourteam2day@gmail.com and we'll be in touch. Thanks!"

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Wed Jun 15 22:12:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Dubstep

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Wed Jun 15 22:12:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Jonmon

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun 15 22:40:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

Okay, tumbled a bit more on rockstarcoders.tumblr.com.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:02:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: punting <geofft>

The way we use the word "angst" is so different from how Sartre does.
(I think.)

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:03:05 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Clearly you should make all of zephyr read Sartre.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:03:19 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: COWER IN FEAR, FOLLOWERS OF MAMMON, BEFORE THE GREAT BIRD REBORN AND THE COMBINED MIGHT OF SIPB -geofft <ismith>

*logs off*

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:03:32 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Aw, Ian.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:04:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:04:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Auvana <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jun 15 23:04:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Hey, I showed you that.

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 01:59:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I wonder if I want to go to the Linux Plumbers Conference again this
year. It's in California, which is less convenient than "5 minutes
away by bike"

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:38:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

When and where is it?

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:39:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Wine country!

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:39:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm totally planning to go

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:39:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's almost even within "drive there and back each day" range

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:39:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though maybe not if I want to party with Lennart or something

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:41:14 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <afarrell>

what is this?
(I only just restarted barnowl)

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:42:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well north of SFBA, then?

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:42:40 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, SF.

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:43:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Santa Rosa

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:43:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://www.linuxplumbersconf.org/2011/

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:43:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The other excuse to go to California in the near future, and not
during term, is USENIX Security in early August.

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:44:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... Charles Stross is the keynote speaker? O_o

Class: geofft Instance: lpc
Time: Thu Jun 16 02:44:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... I think that's where my grandmother lived.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:21:42 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

I don't understand this tumblr:
http://i.imgur.com/k5q5Y.png

yet

        <div id="siteDescription">MIT's Electrical Engineering and
Computer Science department gets many posts a day on its official
"jobslist" e-mail list. Some are more ridiculous than others.</div>

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:23:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:23:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"I didn't do it."

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:24:04 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: ... are there going to be meetings? "Of course!" @b(No meetings.) *blam* <eichin>

do you have corrupted fonts?  I don't see that
at all

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:24:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

I dunno, Chromium nightly on stock Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:24:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Works fine on Firefox. CRUG

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:24:34 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

er, CRBUG

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:27:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

stock Windows? Is having non-stock Windows particularly common?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:28:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"hm, it doesn't work if I compile NTOSKRNL with -funroll-loops"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:28:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Maybe. Where I work, I run nightly Office builds...

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:29:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"try changing some of your USE flags in C:\boot.ini and rebooting"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:29:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

There are literally threads like "Bowen is not receiving e-mail today,
please stop by his office."

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:29:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Isn't that what OWA is for?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:29:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

Yeah. TBH Bowen *chooses* not to receive mail today.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:35:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, Net Nanny is being useful again. It's past 11 PM so I can no
longer type www.reddit.com as an alternative to walking the fifteen
feet to my bed and sleeping.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 16 03:41:17 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Mats Ahlgren)                           (^^ <mats_a>

++, but isn't that resolv.conf is for? =p

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 16 11:44:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I dreamed that I moved a package into the debathena apt repo by
mistake

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 16 11:45:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Fortunately, it was into -development. But I still downgraded an
existing package in -development

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 14:57:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Via Reddit... go to the Nyan Cat video and look at the position slider
at the bottom. O_o

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 14:58:20 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why would anyone go here rather than http://nyan.cat? (but still O_o)

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 14:58:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wait, why is that one a piece of toast and this one a pop-tart?

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 14:58:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

... so you can look at the position slider?

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 14:59:06 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think the site one changed recently

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:00:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

All right, Debathena productivity narrowly not shot to hell by Nyan
Cat. It's the minor victories.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:00:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

... I was not going to have that problem.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:00:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

err imix

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:02:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Liz and I came up with the best idea! After you've been logged in to a
quickstation for ten minutes, your desktop background changes to Nyan
Cat and you can't mute the sound.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:02:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"the best idea"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:02:49 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Never mind MST3K -- what I want to see is C-SPAN3K. <eichin>

isn't that supposed to be "the best idea EVAR" ? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:03:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That won't work for people that actually *like* Nyan Cat. Because I'm
sure they exist.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:06:10 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

It will if the people have any regard for other humans in the
vicinity, who will be glaring at them for playing nyan cat loudly.

(though this problem is fixed by headphones)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:06:27 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

(I actually like nyan cat...)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:06:30 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Welcome to MIT, home of entitled egomaniacs with simultaneously low self-esteem. -zacheiss <ismith>

I have never heard Nyan Cat.  I'm about tohate you all, aren't I.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:06:46 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is the best idea.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:06:55 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4

You're welcome, ismith!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:07:13 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: This is a dark path. It leads to performance art. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

That's not that bad.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:07:20 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

I genuinely like it >.>

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:07:46 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The market does not care if you are sad. -kcr <ismith>

I prefer the Llama song, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:07:54 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

But then, I've listened to Hare Hare Yukai for 3 hours straight on a
loop before, and I once danced 15 minutes straight to caramelldansen,
so I am several sigma from the norm.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:08:13 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Life is like a box of zsigs, you never know what you're gonna get. <haiiro>

ismith: It's pretty bad after 6 hours -_-

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:08:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

What are these things, and are they related to leekspin?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:08:42 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: ... damn your literal non-literal interpretations! -wings <ismith>

6 what now?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:08:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Magic zsig on the wall, who's the fairest one of all? <haiiro>

Hours. They're those things that are 24ths of days.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:09:21 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

Hare Hare Yukai is an actual anime song, caramelldansen is a swedish
thing that some japanese people once set to anime animated cutout
characters doing a silly dance that became a meme in both Japan and
america.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:09:32 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 2 269 1215847 <cesium>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX6e7sO1ss0

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:10:44 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

Yeah, that. It has since been set to several more anime characters
doing the same dance.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:12:29 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Yours in leadership, friendship, and zsigs. <haiiro>

s/several more/most/

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:05 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: fluffy) (Pokemon Master <codetaku>

How many would that have to be? O.o

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And this, kids, is why we have the workflow policy.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Liz and I can ack each other!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I would not ACK this.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.things
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:54 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

ACK
EEK

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:13:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Together, we will rule the... clusters! with stupid youtube videos!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:14:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:14:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Please don't edit the workflow policy such that geofft and I can't ACK
each other.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:15:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Since you said you wouldn't ACK this, we're still safe.  Alternatively
"This is why we have a workflow policy and a Liz."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

geofft@echo:/mit/geofft/debathena/svn/debathena/third/openafs$ enscript -GE debathenify-openafs
[ 5 pages * 1 copy ] sent to printer
Segmentation fault

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:19:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:20:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Backtrace:
/lib/libc.so.6(_IO_vfprintf+0x3fbe)[0x7f828216b35e]
/lib/libc.so.6(+0x4a8e0)[0x7f828216c8e0]
/lib/libc.so.6(_IO_vfprintf+0x20e)[0x7f82821675ae]
/lib/libc.so.6(__fprintf_chk+0xeb)[0x7f828221faab] enscript[0x404c59]
/lib/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xfd)[0x7f8282140c4d] enscript[0x401ea9]

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:20:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:21:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It looks like it prints anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:24:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It does make it *really obvious* that they're... doing *something* a little weird.

Class: geofft Instance: kasittig
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:30:21 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

That is... definitely a dance move, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kasittig
Time: Thu Jun 16 15:48:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Thu Jun 16 17:30:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... claims it's writing to /tmp/screen-exchange but isn't

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Thu Jun 16 17:31:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, because I suck at remembering which computer I'm on

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:34:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I wonder how I would approach a completely different,
git-protocol-compatible VCS.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:39:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Greg Price <price>

What do you want from one?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:40:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Mostly the exercise of "let's try everything different and see if it
works better"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:41:17 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <afarrell>

"more like version out-of-control"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:43:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What do you mean by "protocol-compatible"?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:45:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Realistically, can you have a VCS that's git-protocol-compatible
without also having to match git's data model?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:45:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

You can match the data model without matching the mental model.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:46:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Bad ideas include
- no index
- bzr-style directory-per-branch behavior
- p4-style workspaces

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:50:44 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

You can tamper with the whole stage/working copy concept, while
keeping the same history store.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:51:54 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <afarrell>

I feel like there are probably at least 20 papers
wherein someone proposed some crazy model.

If not,there is some low-hanging fruit for you to
publish on.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 16 19:52:58 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

VCSes aren't very particularly sexy, academically speaking.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:00:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... I'm sleepy, I almost ACK'd my own commit

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:01:31 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:02:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The one I just committed.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:02:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It caused a commit log to get mailed. "Hey, I should go review that
commit... wait"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:03:21 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Does the system check for unique people to commit/ack?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:03:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There's no system, it's just replying to email :)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:03:51 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Well then.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:37:54 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Started looking for documentation, and then realized that I could just
test it.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:38:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Still kind of sad I couldn't find it in sh(1), though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:50:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

bash(1) helps, but it is POSIX I believe

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:51:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I don't want to read about stupid bashisms; I want to read about
sh(1).  :)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:52:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

In any case, it's a #!/bin/bash script

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 01:52:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

So sh(1) is about as relevant as python(1).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 17 02:05:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

less thinking, moar sleeping

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Jun 17 12:53:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Regardless of who's right, the fact that Lady Gaga is a political
force of equal standing with the Church makes me worry for humanity

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Jun 17 12:56:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

The fact that the Church (actually, which church?) is such a large
political force makes me worry for humanity.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Jun 17 12:59:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Perhaps. But is Lady Gaga really better? :)

(Usually when I capitalize Church, I mean either Rome, or some
idealized combination of Rome annd denominations it's at least
somewhat in communion with)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:20:44 2011 Host: 10.0.2.15
From: geofft <waverly>

woo!!!
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  dkms{a} flex{a} openafs-modules-dkms{a} 
The following packages will be upgraded:
  grub-common grub-pc initscripts openafs-modules-generic sysv-rc 
  sysvinit-utils 
6 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:37:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Emacs is hard :-(

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:38:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

emacs is easy once you've learned it

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:38:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:39:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If I cut a line with C-k and paste it with C-y, it doesn't paste the
newline at the end of the line.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:39:54 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

It does if you cut the newline too (C-k again).

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:42:16 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information Leak and Space Mythology <eichin>

it being emacs, you *could* set kill-whole-line,
but noone else does so you might want to instead learn the normal behaviour...

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:52:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

How do I set what major mode I want to be in?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:54:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Usually it autodetects.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:54:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Well, it's not."

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:55:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I know how to do this in vim wahhhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:55:33 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Fighting Ships) <eichin>

m-x foo-mode
for whatever value of foo...

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:55:48 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

why are you in emacs reeducation camp?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:56:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It seemed like a good idea at the time?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:56:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Know your enemy"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:56:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that trespassing a boulder is probably beneath you.
 <rnjacobs>

good enough, i s'pose.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs.d.d
Time: Fri Jun 17 14:58:00 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Special Circumstances <eichin>

"Re-education clamps"
"You mean camps?"
"no."
".... I'll be good."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:02:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Typo'd "modprobe" as "morpdobe". I like my name better.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:20:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Fine. _Be_ reasonable."

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:20:33 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Liz said that didn't she?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:22:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Right, I was going to install ESX on a SIPB office head for the lulz
last summer

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:22:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Maybe I should do that now.

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:58:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There were like four IS&T people in line at Momogoose yesterday. I
guess that's what happens when they move from N42 to E19

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:59:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Momo...what?

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:59:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The food truck thing

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:59:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Gooseberry's in the new red truck.

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 15:59:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

More or less salmonella than goosebearys?

Class: geofft Instance: IS&T
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:00:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

momo salmonella

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There are _lots_ of people on zephyr I haven't met

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

i,i food mob?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: This invisible box contains a pantomime horse.
 <rnjacobs>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

That's the traditional way to meet people on zephyr that you don't
know in person, right?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:44 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Wow, that's very Lord of the Flies.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:47:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

yep

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:48:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

... how is that lord of the flies?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:50:38 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

I was thinking of the scene where the mob hunts down the protagonist
(Ralph), but rereading Wikipedia, more apt is the scene where Ralph
leads the group in a successful pig hunt.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:51:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

That's almost but not entirely unlike a byunch of people going to Mary's

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:51:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mmm, pork.
Mmm, Mary's.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 17 16:51:44 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Ian: Please zsig that. -danjared <ismith>

I thought we were going with a "To Serve Mankind" theme.

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Fri Jun 17 17:42:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Do I want to go to LinuxCon? Is it interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Fri Jun 17 17:44:12 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Enh.

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Fri Jun 17 17:44:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

It is in Vancouver.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jun 17 17:58:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hahaha. corbet posted a "mysterious vulnerability" in the LWN weekly
edition. I commented pointing out that he'd misread the changelog,
and he fixed the title and replied, "It's nice to know people
actually read these vulnerability entries! :)"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:07:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

How do I get kvm -curses to do character sets properly?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:07:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I assume that it's displaying ... CP 437?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:09:26 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... Does it emulate real mode or text mode?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:10:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Who?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:16:52 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I doubt you'd get cp437 by default without it emulating x86-style text mode.
But, hey, stupider design decisions have been made before.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I don't understand the difference between those? You don't mean "real
mode" as in "not protected", right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:23:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Maybe I'll just recompile kvm. That sounds fun.

Class: geofft Instance: curses.manq
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:35:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The curs_set routine sets the cursor state is set to invisible,
normal, or very visible for visibility equal to 0, 1, or 2  re‐
spectively.  If the terminal supports the visibility requested,
the previous cursor state is returned; otherwise,  ERR  is  re‐
turned.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:37:07 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Killer bees keep appearing till you kill their queen.
 <rnjacobs>

I ~did mean that. "real" mode as in segments, 16-bit pointers, all that crap.
My "or" was meant as a "ior" not "xor"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:39:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It has limited real-mode emulation for the boot process... enough to
run an unmodified Linux or NT kernel, but not enough, probably, to run
DOS video games or something.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:40:01 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A staff may recharge if you drop it for awhile.
 <rnjacobs>

Oh. Yeah, then it probably is cp437.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:40:20 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(bluh)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:41:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It looks like it's just copying the string to the curses window
directly with mvwaddchnstr. I should figure out how curses and UTF-8
interact...

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:42:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a Dvorak keyboard.
 <rnjacobs>

"badly unless you're explicitly using the wchar stuff"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:43:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

........

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:45:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Things that /usr/bin/kvm dynamically links, partial list:
        libbluetooth.so.3 => /usr/lib/libbluetooth.so.3 (0x00007f2cf1db2000)
        libidn.so.11 => /usr/lib/libidn.so.11 (0x00007f2cef6f7000)
        libkrb5.so.3 => /usr/lib/libkrb5.so.3 (0x00007f2cecf70000)
        libk5crypto.so.3 => /usr/lib/libk5crypto.so.3 (0x00007f2cecd4a000)
        libcom_err.so.2 => /lib/libcom_err.so.2 (0x00007f2cecb47000)
        libkrb5support.so.0 => /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0 (0x00007f2cec93e000)
        libkeyutils.so.1 => /lib/libkeyutils.so.1 (0x00007f2cec73c000)
        libgpg-error.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgpg-error.so.0 (0x00007f2cec539000):
        libFLAC.so.8 => /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8 (0x00007f2ceabd0000)
        libvorbisenc.so.2 => /usr/lib/libvorbisenc.so.2 (0x00007f2cea702000)
        libvorbis.so.0 => /usr/lib/libvorbis.so.0 (0x00007f2cea4d6000)
        libogg.so.0 => /usr/lib/libogg.so.0 (0x00007f2cea2cf000)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:45:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Most of these I can explain. Ogg, less so.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:46:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Unless that's becase pulse wants it?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:47:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Looks like it does.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:49:26 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Or more accurately libsndfile does, and libpulse wants that.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:56:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Shouldn't those go away if kvm is built with -Wl,--as-needed?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:56:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, I guess it would actually be -Wl,--no-copy-dt-needed-entries,
which I thought Ubuntu was also turning on

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 18:57:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This is on squeeze

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Fri Jun 17 19:22:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... Why are there static functions in your .h files?

Class: geofft Instance: aaaaaaa
Time: Fri Jun 17 19:31:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Two words: 3D CSS.

http://www.webkit.org/blog-files/3d-transforms/poster-circle.html

Class: geofft Instance: aaaaaaa
Time: Fri Jun 17 19:32:21 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: why can't they be cuddly ghosts in the machine? -rnjacobs <ismith>

IBTSOUI

Class: geofft Instance: aaaaaaa
Time: Fri Jun 17 19:34:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<He shrugs. “Mama says that everyone has a mortal body and an immortal spirit.”> <xavid>

Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: aaaaaaa
Time: Fri Jun 17 19:35:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I feel like I just saw that effect via some demo i got from pouet.net the
other day.

Class: geofft Instance: aaaaaaa
Time: Fri Jun 17 20:08:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Also, http://esquevin.com/starwars.html

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Fri Jun 17 20:57:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This shouldn't be as surprising as it is, but the two cheapest dates
for leaving Boston to go home anytime between late June and late July
are July 3 and 4.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Fri Jun 17 20:59:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

I bet there are two or three flights you could take where you get to
watch the fireworks from the air.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:00:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Tempting!

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:01:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But I think schedule-wise I don't want to be in Boston on either the
3rd or 5th

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:04:43 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<But if we turn into our spirits, we just disappear. So we must not have any.> <xavid>

I've done the fireworks-from-the-air flight before.  It was exciting
at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:53:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Huh. Randomly lost subs on tyger

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:58:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... and again

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:58:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, I have two zhms. How in ...

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:59:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"How many zhms are runnin?"

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 21:59:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm pretty sure my network status didn't change

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 22:19:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Ugh. Better now that kvm isn't running.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Jun 17 22:21:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Lost subs from 9:50 onwards resend etc. etc.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 17 23:17:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Net Nanny thinks it's past my bedtime. I'm inclined to agree.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun 18 14:44:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun 18 15:59:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Plan for today: -> Galleria food court -> hack on kvm -curses for a
bit -> thesis -> Starbucks in H^2 -> thesis -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun 18 15:59:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, also "deal with email" somewhere in there.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:29:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

has ALL THE BUILD-DEPS

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:30:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I guess I should have expected this when... ... ... why is there a guy
delivering Dominos inside the mall?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:32:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:32:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Wait, you're actually building KVM?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:33:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Should I not be?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:33:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"I thought you were joking"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:33:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Always a dangerous assumption.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:35:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f488841 Staging: hv: remove wrapper functions for atomic operations <nelhage>

I build KVM

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:36:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f0bf7f6 mmc: Add new via-sdmmc host controller driver <nelhage>

It's ... not that hard.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:36:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Both of you: Why?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:36:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b5b5c64 [PATCH] I2C: Update IXP4xx I2C bus driver <nelhage>

Because I write exploits for KVM :)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:37:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Because I want to make it link ncursesw instead of ncurses

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:37:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0c3f9fd V4L/DVB (13980): [STV6110x] Added function stv6110x_write_regs <nelhage>

And it's useful to be able to build it with debug symbols, and to
test patches to the bugs I found, and build different versions, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:37:19 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Write exploits for fun?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:37:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No, he gets kidnapped by the Mafia regularly who demand exploits from
him.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:37:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f1ddfd9 ip2: init/deinit cleanup <nelhage>

Fun and conference talks :)

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:55:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

weeeeeird.

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:56:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(svn co --depth empty, for those who aren't subbed... it gets you an
empty directory that "svn up", "svn st -u", "svn diff -rHEAD", etc.
all claim are clean, but "svn up foo" will explicitly check out foo)

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:58:22 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 7 93459593 <cesium>

Oh, I used that in 6.005.

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:59:24 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: The pen is mightier than the sword!  And my pen is bigger than your pen! <eichin>

yeah, --depth is the new version of the old -N
which was just simple sparse-checkout.  I use it for releng stuff all
the time ("Give me a dir with only the pom.xml files for this tree")

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 17:59:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I had no idea that it was even possible to construct a repo that "svn
st -u" / "svn diff -rHEAD" / "svn up" claimed was up-to-date with the
remote tree. That's a bit disturbing, honestly

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:00:20 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: Intelligence, like Jello, is hard to measure after being thrown against a wall. <eichin>

I think the assumption is that you did it
intentionally so you knew what you were getting into :-)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:00:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Woo `python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080`.

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:03:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Le Water-chute? Le Yachting? L'Académie would be so offended.

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:04:08 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

They would, wouldn't they.

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:06:03 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: Nice little planet you've got here. Shame if something happened to it. <eichin>

(git can't do that, right? git can't even do subtrees...)

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:07:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Yeah, not as far as I know.

Class: geofft Instance: wings.svn
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:07:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"this could be a feature for the hypothetical ungit"

Class: geofft Instance: curses
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:25:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

raw and cooked are opposites and cbreak and icanon are opposites?
Or...?

Class: geofft Instance: linux.q
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:38:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

/*
 * Hopefully this will be a rather complete VT102 implementation.
 *
 * Beeping thanks to John T Kohl.

Class: geofft Instance: linux.q
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:38:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I wonder if that's "the console beeps because John T Kohl made it
beep", or a censored curse word :)

Class: geofft Instance: linux.q
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:41:58 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: In no case is it ok to just "shut up the warning".  -- Linus <eichin>

hah.  probably the former :)  (he did stuff like
the first version of select that worked well enough for emacs, in 0.12
or so, and I vaguely recall him doing tty stuff)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 18:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

*facepalm*

Infinite loops, partial list:
        for (x0 = x; x0 < x + w; x++)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:03:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I really don't know enough about terminals or EGA or VGA or curses
:-( :-(

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:07:25 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: Disco is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art. <eichin>

it is 2011, you'd think we'd be sort of beyond that by now :-)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:08:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Progress! I now get Franýais instead of Fran[replacement
character]ais.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:08:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Unfortunately, the Académie is still displeased.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:18:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Waaait ý isn't in CP 437, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:54:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

blugh. Okay, so ncurses doesn't actually know how to translate from
CP437 to something useful, unless your terminal natively supports
CP437

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:56:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Option 1: Include some CP437 -> Unicode conversion table, e.g.
linux-2.6/drivers/char/cp437.uni, and use ncursesw
Option 2: Write my own CP437 -> curses box drawing #defines conversion
table, and keep using ncurses, and lose a bit of fidelity

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:57:10 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Option 1 sounds like less work, and gets you what it wants, so what's
the benefit of Option 2?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:57:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"I still haven't figured out how ncursesw works"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:57:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But yeah, I think you're right.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:58:47 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How is the ncursesw API different? I thought the whole point was for
it to be compatible

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 19:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Mostly, if I throw Unicode code points at it, will it DTRT?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:00:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"wide character" only sometimes means "Unicode", and even further only
sometimes means "UTF-8"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:00:28 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:00:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:01:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(If you or someone else on my class wants to tell me "no, actually, it
will DTRT", all the better...)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:02:26 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm trying to figure that out. I guess it depends on what cchar_t is.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:26:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcurses/setcchar.html

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:29:03 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also apparently http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=879169

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:29:09 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So it seems it will DTRT

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:42:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The Ubuntu example meas it definitely will not work, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:43:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, the ubuntu exams shows POC of how to make it work.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:44:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If you set LC_ALL in the app.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:44:29 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And it totally makes sense that you have to do that. By resetting the
locale you are inhibitting any sort of translations that it would want
to do, and now you have full control

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:45:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But that's the thing -- I have a Unicode code point. I want curses and
my terminal to take care of displaying it correctly

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:45:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Otherwise I'm assuming that the terminal emulator speaks UTF-8 and
things will probably work if I send UTF-8, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:46:13 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Hmm. I guess so. What ahppens if you try to use the setcchar method?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:50:00 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

According to python docs:
> Since version 5.4, the ncurses library decides how to interpret
> non-ASCII data using the nl_langinfo function. That means that you
> have to call locale.setlocale() in the application and encode Unicode
> strings using one of the system’s available encodings. This example
> uses the system’s default encoding:
>> import locale
>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
>> code = locale.getpreferredencoding()

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 20:50:48 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> Then use code as the encoding for str.encode() calls.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 21:02:48 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do you know of any characters that can be tested with? I'm currently
confused as to what-other-than-utf-8 can be supported at this point. 
On linerva, the default code-point is always utf-8, even when I logged
in (via PuTTY) with settings of ISO8859-1.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 21:21:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm. test/ncurses.c implies a mere addstr of utf8 is right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 21:26:12 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Where do you see that? I see them using waddstr

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:23:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

That w prefix is irrelevant (it means to specify a WINDOW * or to use
the default). The interesting distinction is between e.g. addstr and
addwstr

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:25:59 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I should read the docs more carefully.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:31:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I've been having way more networking issues today than usual

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:31:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I told vmnet to go away, let's see if that helps.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:47:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 22:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It tends to get slightly slower before disconnecting, which is
worrisome.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 23:06:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, essid "Harvard Square WiFi" is working reasonably well. I'm
surprised "attwifi" at this Starbucks didn't when it worked fine at
another one and has worked fine here before. 

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 23:06:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I should just figure out how to get my phone to tether

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun 18 23:09:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That involves paying money or jailbreaking.

Class: geofft Instance: ncurses.configure.q
Time: Sun Jun 19 00:26:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

AC_MSG_WARN([You don't have any C++ compiler, too bad])

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jun 19 00:58:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"It's implemented in Python, including a few Python extension modules
written in C. Python 1.5.2 or later is required."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sun Jun 19 01:11:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/perf-vsphere-memory_management.pdf
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall03/cs518/papers/esx.pdf

I like how the former clearly came from some marketing people or
sales engineers or someone starting with the latter and editing it to
make it less academic.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sun Jun 19 01:11:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(I'd recalled seeing the latter during my internship, and Googled what
I thought it was called and found the former)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sun Jun 19 01:12:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, good, the former cites the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sun Jun 19 01:19:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm, I wonder if he's still there.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sun Jun 19 01:20:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Carl Waldspurger? We were working with him last summer, so I assume so

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:10:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I take that back, setlocale(LC_ALL, "") is apparently how you do
initialize locales according to the current environment variables.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:11:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, wow, that's counter-intuitive.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:12:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(and ncurses(3) says to do so)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:13:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

> On startup of the main program,  the  portable  "C"  locale  is
> selected  as  default.   A  program may be made portable to all
> locales by calling:
> 
>     setlocale(LC_ALL, "");

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:13:59 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Does that means this makes your life as easy as Option 1 initially
implied?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:15:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Maybe...
But I'm still skeptical that throwing Unicode codepoints is the right
thing if the current locale isn't a Unicode one, and I don't know how
to check.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:15:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Whatever, I'll send this upstream and hope someone yells at me :)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:15:57 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I can't find a machine that says its default locale is not UTF-8. Also
mumble mumble iconv?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:16:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Linking iconv for line-drawing characters seems a bit ridiculous.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:17:44 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I thoght iconv was a glibc internal

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:18:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

On the other hand, iconv does know about CP437...

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:18:30 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

dr-wily ~> ldd `which iconv`
        linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xb76fe000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0xb758a000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb76ff000)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:19:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

tyger:/home/geofft/src/debian/ncurses-5.7+20100313 geofft$ printf "\xCE\n" | iconv -f437
╬

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:19:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:25:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I guess question 2 will be, how do I tell if I'm actually in CP437 or
not, but see above about not knowing enough about EGA and VGA :)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:52:14 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

All US machines used the IBM CGA's font, i.e. CP437. Ones in western europe
often used CP850 instead.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:53:52 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Although the EGA and VGA support soft fonts, I've never seen then used for
anything other than DOS/V and weird pseudographics modes.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 02:54:14 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Lightly fried calimari books ... - ~'s dad
 <rnjacobs>

er, I should say "used for not-native-character page"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:00:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

What does CHCP do, then?
(Also, see setfont(8) on the Linux console)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:00:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I suppose the reasonable second-order implementation is to accept the
code page as a command-line parameter or so

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:08:28 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

AFAICT, ~no one in the US used chcp.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:09:11 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I mean, yes, softfonts are supported on EGA and better, that doesn't mean that
they were used to change the "byte X in VRAM is graphic Y"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:10:26 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Monsters sleep because you are boring, not because they ever get tired.
 <rnjacobs>

chcp is basically DOS for unicode_start, but with all the braindead you'd
expect from it being 1- not unicode and 2- dos

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:24:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, so it's reasonable for the emulated KVM VGA console in curses
mode to just assume 437 or some other code page and never permit it to
be changed by the running OS?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:24:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I started this with an assumption that the code page is some 16-byte
value in video RAM, but it appears to be just a software abstraction,
and the hardware just cares about the font

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:26:18 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

yes, it's the latter. The video card only knows "You put word X at screen
position Y, so I'll look up X*font_height+current_scanline in my font table
(RAM in EGA+, ROM in CGA & MDA) and send that to the monitor."

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:28:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, and vgafont.h hardcodes CP437. Yay.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:28:42 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that the biggest obstacle in NetHack is your mind.
 <rnjacobs>

I guess with softfonts there's no reason to localize the character set in BIOS
before it's uploaded to the video card.

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:30:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Three unique IPs in the same /24 in China have scanned my
SimpleHTTPServer running on port 8080 to see if it's an open proxy.

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:31:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

since I started it at 6pm

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:31:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, and one more on a completely different netblock, but also China.
So many people stuck behind the Great Firewall :-(

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:35:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Next question... is KVM's curses implementation assuming that curses'
chtype and the VGA text buffer have the same format (short, color in
upper byte, character in lower)?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:36:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

O_o. chtype is a long. Is this why it defines the screen as 160*100 or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:36:08 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

O_o that sounds fragile.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:38:50 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

The total memory allocated for either color or mono text mode is 32KiB, or
16384 16-bit numbers; 160*100 would be almost enough for the entire chunk of
memory except 1- that's dumb, it should just be 16384, not 16000, and 2- it
implies the screen geometry isn't reshapable.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:39:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No, console_ch_t is also a long.

(The code definitely casts between QEMU's console_ch_t and curses' chtype
in a way that will break because ncursesw makes chtype a struct.)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:41:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

#define VMEM2CHTYPE(v)  ((v & 0xff0007ff) | \
        ((v & 0x00000800) << 10) | ((v & 0x00007000) >> 1))

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:42:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Is a VGA video memory cell 32-bit?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:42:17 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: In China the radiation effect is always positive, leading to bigger and
better vegetables that will revolutionise agriculture. - Xinhua news agency
 <rnjacobs>

....... not in text mode.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:42:46 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

In planar graphics mode ("mode 13h") it's 4x8 bits but it's hard to get to
them normally.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:51:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

then I am really confused why this involves
src = (uint32_t *) s->vram_ptr + s->start_addr;

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:52:43 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I want you to notice / when I'm not around - radiohead
 <rnjacobs>

... Do they fully implement VGA graphics modes as well?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:53:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Yes, of course

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:55:03 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: monopoly is more fun when you make your own chance cards - c&h
 <rnjacobs>

Well, that's why they're using 32-bit wide memory stuff. But that's really not
obvious to me as the right engineering approach.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:55:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

In vga_draw_text, it uses a uint16_t.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:56:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

and does exactly what you'd expect.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:56:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

ch = ch_attr & 0xff;
cattr = ch_attr >> 8;
font_ptr = font_base[(cattr >> 3) & 1];
font_ptr += 32 * 4 * ch;
bgcol = palette[cattr >> 4];
fgcol = palette[cattr & 0x0f];

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:57:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It's just vga_update_text (for drivers that don't want drawn text,
namely -curses) that's confusing

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:57:39 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(the VGA has 4 sets of 64KiB each. I don't know how the 16-color planar modes
use it; there are so-called unchained modes that provide a kludgey interface
to updating the contents of >64KiPixels x 8bpp mode)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:57:56 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Housecats have nine lives, kittens only one.
 <rnjacobs>

does vga_draw_text go through some horrifying abstraction somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 03:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Both of these use s->vram_ptr.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:00:06 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Don't eat too much:  you might start hiccoughing!
 <rnjacobs>

I've only really dug into the hardware specifics of the fully-open design of
the CGA; the VGA wasn't documented in the same way.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:00:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I can't help but think that it's depending on the x86 being
little-endian, and ignoring the most-significant two bytes of its
32-bit value.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:02:19 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: An open mind has many visitors.
 <rnjacobs>

Hm. That would be consistent with the underlying 8-pixel horizontal quanta of
everything...

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:03:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

? In text mode to a text driver, pixels don't matter, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:03:39 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Dogs are attracted by the smell of tripe.
 <rnjacobs>

Shouldn't. I'm musing on the VGA architecture.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:04:45 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Rehab's a normal part of growing up these days. It's like national
service, but with shivering and hallucinations. - (scarygoround)
 <rnjacobs>

the VGA achieved some amount of backwards compatibility with the CGA by hiding
a 32-bit bus to the same 64kB address space instead of just 8 bit; it's
plausible that text mode is actually achieved by using one 'plane' for the
character cell and one 'plane' for the color attributes.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:06:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm suspecting the code is plain broken here, since it assumes 16-bit
cells in one place and 32-bit cells in another.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:06:20 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Just the empty husk of a locust.
 <rnjacobs>

Or that.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:10:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Anyway, to answer the curses question, I've been misreading the man
page. cchar_t "corresponds to" chtype means it's a different type, not
that when using ncursesw, chtype is cchar_t.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:35:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm. If my theory is correct,
#define VMEM2CHTYPE(v) ((v>>16) & 0xff)
should cause the entire screen to be shifted over one character. It
does something completely different.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm, I think I understand what's going on? In CGA/EGA-compatibility,
it's still 16-bit cells, but VGA's native text mode is in fact 32-bit
in four planes. The lower plane is for bytes, the next for attributes,
the next for storing fonts, and the last undefined?

http://www.osdever.net/FreeVGA/vga/vgatext.htm

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:43:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

> Normally, the odd/even read and write addressing mode is used to make
> planes 0 and 1 accessible at interleaved host memory addresses.

But we're looking at (virtual) video memory, not (virtual) host
memory.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 04:45:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

and yes, vga_draw_text does advance by 4 every time despite only using
the least-significant 16 bits

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jun 19 05:22:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There's a rumor that Gogo (from Final Fantasy VI) is Adlai Stevenson?
wat

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 14:18:06 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: This object is like an analogy.
 <rnjacobs>

(starking) so it looks like they're pretending it's ok to clobber the font
descriptor plane when they go and zero-extend the 16-bit attribute+character
into the 32-bit cell.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:46:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No, that's not quite it. They're taking the four byte
four-planes-in-a-long representation and smushing the bits around to
get a curses chtype, which uses the lower byte the same and the upper
three bytes differently.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:47:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

They are masking out the font plane. But VMEM2CHTYPE doesn't
permanently modify video ram, it just changes the input to curses

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Modulo the weirdness where neither curses nor VGA use the MSB/fourth
plane in text mode, respectively, and it happens to be okay not to
mask that out, the code is correct.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:50:06 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: you are the chick at the center of an egg, unable to get past your own
pitifully thin shell to touch those around you. - io
 <rnjacobs>

VGA doesn't really use the 3rd plane either, at least not in the same way.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:50:31 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Like that's clearly "fetch planes 0 and 1, then fetch the corresponding byte
from plane 2"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:52:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:54:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It also bothers me that a) VMEM2CHTYPE creates chtypes by bit
operations instead of via the defined constants (like A_BOLD), and b)
the generic text display interface hardcodes curses chtypes

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:54:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(in hw/vga.c, instead of curses.c)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:54:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Perfectly reasonable gripes.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:54:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The latter bothers me primarily because I'm about to change curses.c
to use cchar_t instead of chtype :)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:55:11 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Keep your weaponry away from acids.
 <rnjacobs>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:55:34 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I'm a little surprised no-one's previously complained about the cp437-ness
before, though.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:56:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, the other point of confusion that occured to be before I fell
asleep. Re achernya's example of addstr("\u2014".encode("utf8"))...
how do you give attributes to a multibyte string? Specifically, what
does curses do if the first byte in a UTF-8 encoding is blue and the
second bliking green?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

And relatedly, can I iconv() one character at a time?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:59:09 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I think so

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 16:59:28 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Er, I guess I mean, "why couldn't you?"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:02:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

From CP437 I know it's a byte. I'm curious about the general case
answer

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:04:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

e.g. from Shift-JIS?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:05:03 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I think the answer to that is no, I'm pretty certain that iconv doesn't keep
internal state across calls.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:05:30 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Never attack a guard.
 <rnjacobs>

er, i just conflated "byte" and "character"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:07:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Right. I can tell iconv to limit to n input or m output _bytes_ easily
but not characters

Class: geofft Instance: lbw
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:48:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

ELF-load a Linux binary app onto a Windows process, trap the syscalls
that (of course) won't work, and emulate them with Windows' POSIX
subsystem.

http://lbw.sourceforge.net/

Creepy.

Class: geofft Instance: lbw
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:50:33 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Aww, doesn't yet work with Windows 7.

Class: geofft Instance: lbw
Time: Sun Jun 19 17:52:01 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Let your fingers do the walking on the yulkjhnb keys.
 <rnjacobs>

Neato.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-reading-group
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:19:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... did you choose this paper just because it uses the phrase
"administration of servers"?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-reading-group
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:20:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... no? Does it?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-reading-group
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:21:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It does.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:42:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I appear to be losing mail again

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(losing track of, specifically)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:43:07 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

At least you're not losing male. That'd be a serious problem.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Jun 19 18:52:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Whoooooo sent that e-mail

Class: geofft Instance: ash.ttants
Time: Sun Jun 19 21:05:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Ash Ketchum
turzaak

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:19:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There's a natty beta milestone? "huh"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:20:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't that what Jon keeps re-milestoning tickets away from?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:21:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No, that's Natty Alpha. Which we're almost done with

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:21:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, so it is.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:35:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why wouldn't there be a beta milestone?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:35:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(there's also a "release" one)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:35:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I never noticed one before, mostly

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:36:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I decided that semester-based milestone are pointless, because they don't
communicate useful goals.  That having been said, we have "Fall 2011", so
*shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Jun 19 23:51:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

dareprepro
derpderpro

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:10:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Y U" MEME

Y U SO POPULAR?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:23:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"You were Christian at some point. You know VeggieTales?"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:23:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: "You two have, like, a TV-borne bromance" - wings, to me and ismith <pbaranay>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:24:02 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: ...can I get more than a cough? I don't speak it all that well... -zhangc <ismith>

"Why is that even a question?"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:24:15 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

VeggieTales!

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:24:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hey, I am mostly too old for it.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:24:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wow, I summoned rkw.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:25:06 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

...I was on zephyr already? But yes, because VeggieTales is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:25:26 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 149 4391087 <cesium>

om nom nom

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:25:50 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I was going to say that!

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:26:09 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

Wow, now I have the theme song stuck in my head.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:29:59 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

==kaduk, although s/mostly//

I am aware of it but have never seen it.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard.in.starbucks
Time: Mon Jun 20 00:40:20 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: wants to see some elves and lasers and magic and shit <afarrell>

VeggieTales!

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Jun 20 15:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

bttf
mtbf

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:06:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Can we have cowbell?"
"Wait, what happened to the dubstep?"
"Can the cowbell _be_ the dubstep?"

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:06:47 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

...

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:06:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:08:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

We aren't actually doing that. Currently, our mass parts are highly
traditional.

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:08:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Riiight.

Class: geofft Instance: reasons-why-liz-and-i-should-not-write-music-partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:08:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

At least, comparatively.

Class: geofft Instance: marketing
Time: Mon Jun 20 16:46:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Sigh. I don't actually want Earth, Wind, and Fire's Greatest Hits
album, even if Amazon MP3 will sell it to me for $3.99.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:09:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Zephyr from tabbott  17:09  (Timothy G Abbott)
    also, how did Debathena end up with more than 900 tickets in its trac?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:14:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I blame Jon.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:14:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Only 40% are open. That's not terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:15:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hey, don't blame, I wanted to switch back to RHEL which doesn't even
_have_ a Trac instance

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:16:07 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Do we have statistics for # of tickets reported per person?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:23:08 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

not too hard to compute

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:24:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For open tickets, I'm 123/369

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:24:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Fully 1/3, wow.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:25:28 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

Reporter: adehnert (6 matches)
Reporter: andersk (62 matches)
Reporter: broder (138 matches)
Reporter: geofft (223 matches)
Reporter: jdreed (283 matches)
Reporter: jweiss (5 matches)
Reporter: kaduk (19 matches)
Reporter: kchen (12 matches)
Reporter: mitchb (9 matches)
Reporter: quentin (9 matches)
Reporter: tabbott (88 matches)
Reporter: wdc (14 matches)
Reporter: xavid (5 matches)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:25:38 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

is the list overally of people with 5+ reported tickets

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:26:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Remind me to edit a bunch of tickets and change the reporter to geofft

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:26:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

mysql> UPDATE .....

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:27:55 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

amazingly, only 4 of the tickets I opened are still open

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jun 20 17:29:57 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

so yeah, it's clearly not my fault :)

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Mon Jun 20 21:48:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

1569.

Class: geofft Instance: ta
Time: Mon Jun 20 21:52:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/tll/programs-services/ta-certificate/index-ta-certificate.html

Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: derecognized-student-groups Opcode: partial-list
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:22:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Fruit Frontiers

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:25:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Why does there appear not to be an entity with access to the ASA/
directory in lockers? Was it a mailing list that got deleted years and
years ago, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:27:57 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Centers Pass Thru <kchen>

I see -8958.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:28:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

(which supports the deletion theory)

Class: geofft Instance: derecognized-student-groups
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:28:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groove_Phi_Groove

Class: geofft Instance: derecognized-student-groups
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:28:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This is the best fraternal organization name ever.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:35:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It may just be de-group'd. You could probably get accounts to figure
out what it is, if that's the case.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:35:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I checked a couple of student groups I'm in

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:36:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, de-group-bitted, not derecognized, misread

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jun 20 23:36:24 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 21 00:38:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Tue Jun 21 11:10:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Klaus Knopper! I had no idea he was still active

Class: geofft Instance: is&t
Time: Tue Jun 21 12:37:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

So did anything I care about happen at this department meeting? I'm
guessing no.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:04:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/532

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:05:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, why haven't Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski jokes been made about
this before?

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:08:12 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 2 3 109056341 <cesium>

http://goo.gl/Axvuu

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:08:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:09:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wait, this page is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:09:35 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 5 5 52347047 <cesium>

In fact.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:11:06 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 3 3 72704237 <cesium>

'In a more general sense, Jesus could be viewed as the "particle" and
the Holy Spirit as the "wave" of God. A fuller understanding of the
Trinity could have opened the eyes of scientists much earlier to the
fundamental wave-particle duality of nature ... and still could.'

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:12:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"This is really annoying. I want a SecurID in my eye. Then I can just
go like this *squints*"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:13:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: CandyGram for Mongo! <eichin>

hmm, I should get around to finishing the webcam-securid-reader

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:14:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Just before someone questions my health right now, I don't really want
this.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Tue Jun 21 13:17:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Auvana <kdrinkwa>

So what's the Holy Spirit? Energy?

Class: geofft Instance: this-sounds-awesome.mq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:10:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hey Everyone,

CSAIL karaoke night is next Tuesday, June 28th at 9pm at the Thirsty
Ear! If you've always wanted to sing out loud, come and show off your
skills (or lack thereof). There will be prizes and beverages!

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:11:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Interested prospects should have a background with PHP, HTML & CSS but
also must be familiar with the Python programming language and
hopefully -
but not necessarily - the Python-scripted Django content management
system.

Class: geofft Instance: this-sounds-awesome.mq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:12:11 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Nifty.

Class: geofft Instance: this-sounds-awesome.mq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:12:28 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

You should go and put to song some of the jobslist emails.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:12:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Noisebridge is running an SVM class? People... want to attend this?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:13:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: We are kicking your reality while it's down because that's just the kinds of people we are. -kcr <ismith>

Is that a compromise between SVN and SVK?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:13:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No. Support vector machines.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:14:04 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I provide the Japanese, Ian provides the linguistics. -zhangc <ismith>

Oh, right, those.  "phw doesn't capitalize them."

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:14:57 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

I am pretty sure machine learning is the new Ruby on Rails.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:15:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

More things I don't want to learn!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:16:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

SVM?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:16:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, those.

Class: geofft Instance: blackships
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:23:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm out of town. :-(

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:42:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"What's an ewok?"
"Imagine if Ian were a furry."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:43:09 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: But you have a Wikipedia page!  You're already _done_ with life! -geofft <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:44:13 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 1308699853 <cesium>

Was the first one you by any chance?

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:47:10 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The hit list will not be blancheable. -pbaranay <ismith>

I'm more interested in the second one!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

i A texlive-binaries Depends  ed

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:57:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

debianize-fmtutil:      ed $debCnfFile >/dev/null 2>&1 <<-eof
debianize-fmtutil:  ed $debCnfFile >/dev/null 2>&1 <<-eof

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:59:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

      ed $debCnfFile >/dev/null 2>&1 <<-eof
        g/^$fmt[        ]/s/^/#! /
        w
        q
eof

Why they can't use sed, I have no idea

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 21 19:59:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 22 00:17:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I have now seen the complete Star Wars original trilogy.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena-root
Time: Wed Jun 22 00:22:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Crap.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena-root
Time: Wed Jun 22 00:23:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, hm, project.debathena.snap is a separate volume from
project.debathena. I guess we're not in deep quota trouble

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Jun 22 11:41:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm behind on mail, but if you have two tickets open with us, and Ron
Hoffman also moves a ticket into our queue, and Garry Zacheiss also
makes a ticket in our queue, you are probably e-mailing too many
people.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jun 22 12:41:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

trepidation
trepanation

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:32:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

graaahhhhhh.

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:32:34 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hi, Geoffrey.

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:32:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But printing just works now, thanks to Pharos!

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:32:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If this were CUPS and Pharos and Kerberos and LPRng, I would at least
know where to start debugging.

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:32:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... what.... is it?

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:33:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Windows 7, to an inkjet on a residential network.

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:33:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

lulz

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:33:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Windows believes the printer is off and also not on the network. I
can ping it. The troubleshooter doesn't believe me.

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:33:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Use Ubuntu, I hear that's the one configuration it's good ad"

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:33:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think I'm going to print to PDF and scp the PDF to the Ubuntu
machine on the network

Class: geofft Instance: printing
Time: Wed Jun 22 13:34:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*its good at

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:19:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I want a quota bump :-(

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:20:29 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Entering: Boylston. No smoking, please. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

haven't you already gotten, like, all the quota bumps?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:20:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:20:49 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Entering: Hynes Convention Center. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

"go delete something"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:20:52 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You're going to need a letter from Jesus himself now.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:21:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Speaking of whom,

error: cannot open for write: lamb-of-god-simple.midi: Disk quota
exceeded

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:21:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

He is running out of space because we're writing a mass.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:21:20 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, SIPB homedir.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:21:28 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "Ping me." "Ping me now." -ismith, kaduk <ismith>

I was  going to say, who outranks the Pope?  Does the chain of command
suggest that you go to someone beatified or a saint before you go to
the Christ?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haven't you already filled your Athena, SIPB, and CSAIL quotas?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can you start using local disk like the rest of us?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "It goes from God, to Jerry, to you, to the cleaners"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:30 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You could just renounce the Pope and start your own church. It worked for
Henry VIII.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:49 2011 Host: ET-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 13 41 1069 2297 <cesium>

Divorce and quota bump: totally analogous.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:22:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

but then you have big-endian/little-endian bugs to deal with.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:24:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh hey, I have a .flv of Total Eclipse Of The Heart, Literal Edition
in my Public. I guess that saves 13M

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:24:21 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Jon: What about Hockfield?

Class: geofft Instance: afs.d
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:24:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"She wasn't in that movie"

Class: geofft Instance: afs.d
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:31:28 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Oh right, Jerry isn't the VP of IS&T anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:49:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Augh! emacs is _always in insert mode_

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

How do I get to command mode?????

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:17 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: That's all! <ezyang>

i,i "Press the Ctl key."

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 71de1f3 [PATCH] ipw2200: Enables the "slow diversity" algorithm <nelhage>

"Hold down control"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:27 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

WARYTTD?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:47 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

"how do I get into select/highlight mode then?"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3833f13 [PATCH] parport fixes (2/6) <nelhage>

I think, "complain on zephyr"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:50:58 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

afarrell: hold down shift

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:51:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

"How do I turn on OSNAP ?"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:51:50 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

er, that joke is only funny if you are coruse 4.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:51:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wait, now I want open("yourmomlastnight", O_SNAP) T-shirts.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:52:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OMG SRSLY

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:52:15 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:52:24 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Love is not in NP! <afarrell>

along with "party NP-hard"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:52:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6f0f266 ath9k_htc: Use anchors for REGOUT pipe <nelhage>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:54:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"ESC still works, but most commands return you to input mode."

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

More serious questions. Is the built-in git stuff reasonable, and if
so how do I learn how to use it? (I heard the words "magit" mumbled a
year or two ago)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 17:58:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b7e3500 mac80211: move last_txrate_idx into RC algorithms <nelhage>

Yeah, I use magit and highly recommend it

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 22:08:37 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

I use both; magit is quite nice, but the vc-integration for things
like vc-resolve-conflicts is *amazing*.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 22:09:01 2011 Host: WINTERMUTE.MIT.EDU
From: Perch Ell Mirths Rip Or <cmerrill>

mmmm, making cheesburger macaronii

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Wed Jun 22 22:09:05 2011 Host: WINTERMUTE.MIT.EDU
From: Chiller Her Trims Prop <cmerrill>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:46:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

r9093 | simon | 2011-02-18 03:25:37 -0500 (Fri, 18 Feb 2011) | 3 lines

Implement the Karatsuba technique for recursive divide-and-conquer
optimisation of large multiplies.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:48:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

In other news, PuTTY development is distressingly active for not
having had a release since 2007.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:49:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. I had no idea how long ago the last release was.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:49:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

WHat's that for? Crypto, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:49:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:50:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Someone with fewer things on their plate than me should e-mail them
and offer to help with commit review or something.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:50:31 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Maybe this is naive, but.... can they not, just, like, use a library
for that?

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:50:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

On Windows? "That trick never works"

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:54:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 019d8b3 [PATCH] Fix concurrent access to /dev/urandom <nelhage>

> 3 lines

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:54:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

You know that refers to the commit message length, not the diffstat,
right?

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:55:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b67ac3f sdhci: tell which spurious interrupt we got <nelhage>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:55:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It's so that you can programatically parse `svn log`.

Class: geofft Instance: putty.svn.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 17:55:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3ac1da3 [SPARC64]: Fix sparse warnings wrt. __show_regs(). <nelhage>

I probably once did, but my svn knowledge has been pushed into the
part of my brain that stores CVS knowledge.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:48:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Way too many partial projects.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:49:33 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

*poke* someone audit b-b *poke*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

That's so not my highest priority scripts thing, let alone my highest
priority anything

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:50:41 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What's higher up on Scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:51:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

At least two disabled sites I haven't dealt with and said I would, a
couple of longer-term project things

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:51:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

and finding a sustainable way to deal with F13's EOL.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:51:49 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I thought the "sustainable way" was F15

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:52:53 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I thought F15's were pretty unsustainable. I mean, they cost a lot of
money, require a lot of fuel, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:54:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Fedora's release-to-desupport window is too short for us to actually
be able to do a release with public testing while the n-2 release is
still supported. We're going to need to watch for security updates
until we do finish the public testing period and upgrade

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:55:07 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I would argue auditing b-b and getting F15 up is more important than
that, because if we can do so reasonably quickly we won't have to
worry about that *as much*. 

Also, that's the reason I flipped out and started working on the
server while Fedora was still in Beta. So we could have done the
cutover nowish.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 18:58:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

We still need a few weeks of public testing :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:05:04 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I was originally hoping to have the Public Testing Server deployed on
F15 release day

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:06:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"We recommend that you avoid using of SCCS. RCS is widely held to be
superior, and is also free. By choosing free software in place of
comparable (or inferior) proprietary software, you support the free
software movement."

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:07:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... Did you travel back in time?

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:08:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/html_node/Catalogue-of-Rules.html

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:08:51 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It boggles the mind that RCS was ever considered superior to anything.

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:09:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It's certainly superior to not-RCS

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:10:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

oh _make_, not just some generic makefile...

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:10:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oops. Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: makefile.manual.q
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:23:41 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

For versioning one file, it's not so bad.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:43:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You should also deal with the sql email, in theory.

Class: geofft Instance: windows.7
Time: Thu Jun 23 19:58:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

O_o Accessories | Math Input Panel

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:27:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm not sure if I instinctively notice parallel fifths as weird
because parallel fifths are instinctively weird or because I've been
trained to do so

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:32:51 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 3 3 3 48476873 <cesium>

I don't notice them at all.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:32:54 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: There is no harm in praising a large dog.
 <rnjacobs>

More likely the latter; they're used in pop/rock for many decades...

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:39:13 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 7 11 16998389 <cesium>

> (But yes, it is certainly safer for me to do so than for someone with
> your name, or the physical appearance that I suspect goes with it.)
Sorry, who was this directed at?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:39:18 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 3 3 13 5593487 <cesium>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:43:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... yes, I know that people use open fifths in various styles of
music. "parallel fifths" specifically refers to an n-voice piece
suddenly sounding like a <n-voice piece because some of the parts that
are supposed to be moving independently/contrapuntally aren't. You
don't have that in rock music -- things aren't nearly as contrapuntal,
in the first place, and generally the fifths continue between two
parts (or within a part) for a whole section instead of for like two
beats.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:54:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Parallel fifths within, like, two consecutive guitar chords are
natural and unavoidable and don’t bother me.  But there’s a lot of
counterpoint between bass and melody, or between melody and harmony,
and parallel fifths in that context still clash to some degree.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:54:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 20:59:12 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a loadstone has a strange attraction and is not bad luck.
 <rnjacobs>

When I was taking 21m.30x I couldn't really pick them out unless they were
more than a single pair; the voice had to ~disappear for a while before I'd
notice its absence.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:00:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm poking at a totally 301-standard SATB piece and noticed something
odd, and then stared at the notes a bit, and realized that both S/B a
and A/T were in parallel fifths in the same direction.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:01:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Using a morning star in the evening has no effect.
 <rnjacobs>

Hm. I suspect I'd notice 4->2 when I didn't 4->3.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:18:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Amazing

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:19:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:20:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> ASP.Net, ASP.Net MVC 3.0, SQL (MySQL), JQuery experience

Isn't that a somewhat unusual combination?

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:20:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think they're all a bit unusual when you combine them with GLaDOS

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:21:11 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

I liked that ad because it was obviously written by the cofounder,
and he is seriously pissed that the other founder (the "business
guy") made him call the position "junior", but his colleague won't
budget on the name.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:21:24 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

budge either.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:21:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I can only assume that was added to make them seem cooler...

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:22:53 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Haha, these guys' blog is SO news.ycombinator.commy.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:23:07 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

"4 Lessons from Zappos That Can Help Your Small Business Get More
Online Reviews"

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:23:56 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

"How to get the most out of QR Codes" (not a joke)

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Thu Jun 23 21:25:07 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Why your technical cofounder secretly wishes you would die in a fire"

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Fri Jun 24 15:29:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm. Has anyone addded ICMP socket support to qemu's user-mode
networking when running on Linux 3.0?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:28:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

[redacted] / else / geofft  16:14  (Attention all pilots... One lives
    > I just get grumpy by [redacted]'s judgment of people who exist
    > within that system, because, uh, hi, it's the socially normative
    > thing to do, and some of us (me) like to present as mostly socially
    > normative.

    Hey, that's exactly my problem with [redacted]. I like being gendered, I
    like people committing acts of gender towards me. I like presenting as
    stereotypically male (or attempting to). You don't get to give me crap
    for it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:31:42 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

==

I enjoy being male and being considered and recognised as such.
I think people generally like being recognised for whatever
identity they present themselves as.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:32:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

In fact. I don't think that being male or straight or cis or white or
course 6 or whatever it is is inherently superior to other
identities, but in the same vein it's not inferior.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:33:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

er, except that last one.
you are forgetting that programming is better than everything else,
including friendship.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:33:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Point.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:35:15 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I'm just glad you didn't say physics.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:36:11 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Babbies must be formed!  How is fire babby formed? - brogan (ADOR) <wings>

Wait, have you gotten the vibe that being cis is inferior?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:36:22 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

Also, w.r.t. the second to last one
Do you identify as White? not Indian?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:37:24 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It is generally the less-stable configuration ...

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:38:03 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I would say Geoff presents as "human"

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:39:05 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

wings: I don't have context, but sometimes I get the sense that some
people who are not socially normative are somewhat judgmental of
people who are or purposely try to be.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:40:08 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: I can talk to yourself in whatever person she wants. - shawest (as wings) <wings>

I get that vibe a lot in general MIT context, though not specifically
in a gender context

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:40:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

wings: second-redacted has told me that I am not to impose the
standards of being stereotypically male on people who present
stereotypically male and want said standards imposed on them. (I know
such people exist, because I'm one of them.) This is possibly as much
a "male" thing as a "cis" thing

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:40:52 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Madam, this bed is alive. <ternus>

==rye

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:40:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

==rye

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:41:00 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The more you say 'zsig', the less it means. <haiiro>

==rye

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:41:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: We Earth people do not do that. <ternus>

At least in the MIT context, as wings says.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:41:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I have no problem with you being socially non-normative. But, to me,
part of being socially normative is having a society that holds up
those norms. You don't get to tell me and other people who have made
the decision to participate in holding up those norms to each other
that we can't.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:41:46 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: "Melissa" is not a fratboy name. - ismith <wings>

geofft: ... oh

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:41:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If I'm attempting to impose those norms on people who don't want them
imposed, that's different.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:42:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

afarrell: I was picking the convenient majority, not making a
statement about myself. I don't think I go to any effort to
present as either

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:43:50 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: We will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. - Hitchhiker's Guide <wings>

I'm reading what you're saying as "I want to treat people how they'd
like to be treated", so I'm confused by what [redacted] had a problem
with.  Unless I'm misreading?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:44:11 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 13 43 2341589 <cesium>

There's a fine line between that and treating everyone as you'd like
to be treated.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(Both these conversations were on public classes, but I don't think
either of the redacteds were being malicious about it, and I also
don't want to create the impression that I have a problem with their
identities, which I don't, so I'm not naming them. I only have a
problem with them having a problem with my identity, and I suspect
they just haven't thought about the issue enough)

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:44:24 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

yea [redacted] may be applying the golden rule, 
which is silly.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:44:52 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 2 29 11284037 <cesium>

No, the Golden Rule is not silly. It just needs to be applied on the
right level.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:45:22 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 11 59497651 <cesium>

Instead of saying "I want to be treated as male, so I treat everyone
who looks male as male", say "I want my desires to be respected, so I
respect everyone else's desires".

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:45:58 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

thats effectively the "platinum rule" at that point.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:46:13 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

"treat people as they would want to be treated."

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:46:20 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: We Earth people do not do that. <ternus>

It seems like -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- people who have been
oppressed by members of the majority have a hard time believing that
anyone would want to identify with the majority.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:46:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

wings: Relevant quote:

me: "If you dislike culture, that's fine, but please stop acting like
those of us who like it are doing something wrong."
them: "run your personal style however you want.  Just don't shame
other people when they fall short of your gendered style
expectations."

I want to be in an identity that has such expectations about it. That
effectively means I want other people "shaming" me, in that language.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:47:14 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: My eyes are sensitive only to light in the wavelengths of 3000-7000 A. <ternus>

In other words, "yes, I want you to tell me those shorts are ugly on me"

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:47:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Right.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:47:27 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Dammit, Ian, stop publicizing our post-bedtime zephyr trysts! -pbaranay <ismith>

ternus: that is not my experience, although I'm not coming from a
specifically gender-focused standpoint.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:48:25 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: A sociopath asking a sociopath for advice doesn't work. - lexrj <wings>

There's a difference between you wanting to be "shamed" in this way
and you "shaming" other people who don't.  I don't see an indication
in that quote that you shouldn't want that yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:48:55 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 5 261789707 <cesium>

But "they" are making no distinction between "other people" who want
it and don't.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:49:08 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: I must not be a real programmer, because I'm commenting the code. - zhangc <wings>

Ah, fair

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:49:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The thing that really bothers me here is that a lot of discussion of
"er, you seem to be saying that it's wrong for me to live my
culturally-normative identity" is happening on private classes,
personal discussions, etc., but there's a lot of it. It's okay to
have made the decision to identify with the majority, and I think most
people who do present as culturally-normative do so intentionally.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:49:35 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Please do not turn off the gravity while I am utilizing the waste-reclamation unit. <ternus>

"Why would you want to voluntarily conform to normative expecations?"

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:51:02 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 7 7 13356619 <cesium>

geofft: I disagree with your last clause in the sense that they've
thought about it, though possibly not in the sense that they would
choose the same if they did think about it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:51:17 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: The heart is a muscle too, and not just in the literal sense. - kdrinkwa <wings>

I think the problem here is that people do think about what others
are(n't) doing.  Some go, "Everyone else is doing it, let's go!".
Others go, "Everyone else is doing it, it's evil!"  I don't see why
people are taking this into account when deciding what you want to do.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:52:48 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Geoff, I read much of what you are saying as equivalent to
"I like the status quo on gender, it works for me, and it
bothers me when people want to change it or say it is bad."
Am I misreading you?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:52:56 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

I'm confused about "wanting to present as X" vs. "wanting to have an X
presentation expected of me / enforced on me".

Is this a relevant difference? Or is my brain just totally fried on
thinking about identity politics? (It is.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:53:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

tibbetts: I think you are? I'm trying to say "I like identifying with
the status quo, and while there are improvements that need to be made,
please don't knock down my identity while building your own"

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:53:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I'm also unclear on what yuo want "enforced" on you. The
draft? Pants? Lifting heavy objects?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:54:08 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 2 2 2 81809303 <cesium>

kdrinkwa: As I understand it, those are different axes (though not
orthogonal, probably).

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:54:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

All reasonable things.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:54:44 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 2 327237221 <cesium>

You can want to present as X, while not wanting anyone but yourself to
expect you to be X.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:54:59 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Did the eggs keep pooping? NOO YOU LEFT THE TEABAG IN TOO LONG! - apfarr <wings>

There's a difference between knocking down your identity and not
having your identity be the expectation of everyone in $category

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:56:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

tibbetts: You're welcome to convince me that my position is equivalent
to "I like the status quo on marriage, and if you allow gay marriage
it harms my marriage's identity", and if it is, I'll change it. But I
don't think it is.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:57:06 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I can respect and understand the casual desire for clear
and historically accepted gender boundaries, they are
simple. But I can't help but find a parallel in my
grandmothers desire for clear and historically accepted
racial boundaries, and hope that eventually your point of
view is marginalized.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:58:04 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I think what Geoffrey is saying is that he doesn't want to be judged
for being "normative" / part of the majority, just on the basis that
it's the majority and there might be oppressive people also in the
same category of gender identity, and he doesn't like it when
non-normative/minority-category people think less of him because he's
not non-normative.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:58:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I am toxic. <ternus>

==zhangc; well put.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:58:27 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

It doesn't really have anything to do with how non-normative people
are perceived/treated.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:59:06 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Oh, if geoff's point is zhangc's, then that's fine, but as
a fellow member of the majority I'd say it's not so bad so
you should man up and stop whining.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:59:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:59:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"I think I will person up, thank you"

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 16:59:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:00:15 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Regurgitation is intended as a great compliment to the hostess on Earth. <ternus>

Stop whining and sophont up.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:00:25 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<“It’s kind of like that,” Jane says. “Only, with goggles.”> <xavid>

I want to present as female sometimes.  When I do, I don't want people
to criticize me for doing it badly or not putting as much effort as I
"should" into my appearance.  I have mixed feelings for things like
people going out of their way to open doors for me.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:01:18 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: One is cannibalism and the other is disturbing. <wings>

Is the moral of the story here "don't knock people who happen to fall
in the norm", or am I confused?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:01:41 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I am happy to meet your clone. <ternus>

s/happen to/choose to/

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:01:42 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Yes, I think so?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:01:42 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I'm not sure that's a moral, but that's what Geoff is
asking for.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:01:48 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

And I thnk that's fine.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:02:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Honest question: if we're getting rid of normative gender identities,
should we not also be getting rid of non-normative ones? (i.e., n
generations later when gender boundaries are as fluid as tibbetts
wants them to be, should it be unreasonable or not even expressible
for xavid to say that he wants to present as female?)

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:02:38 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

But I would also say that as someone who falls in the norm,
it is a good thing to pay attention to priviledge and the
challenges that non-priviledged groups have that you may
not encounter. Even if the people who point them out are
often shrill.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:02:55 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 5 5 5 5 137 15287 <cesium>

I don't think gender identities should necessarily be abolished, so
much as the expectation that everyone falls into one.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:13 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

Are you sure that's possible?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Geofft: Good question. I don't think there is an easy
answer. You're welcome to participate in finding the hard
answer.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

In the same way that I'm presenting as neither Indian nor white. I
don't speak my mother tongue or cook rice, but I don't really think
there's anything I can do to be ... more white. Short of dancing
really badly, which I do.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:30 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 3 5 3547 12301 <cesium>

I think people should be able to say something equivalent to "I want
to have this set of appearance traits that someone from the 18th
century would have called female".

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:31 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

I kind of argue that a gender identity almost necessitates genders to exist for everyone.q

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:03:47 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Dammit, Piper, I wish I could give you a really shitty straw. - apfarr <wings>

Geoff - Since I still don't get what the fuck gender is other than a
stereotype assigned to a sex... I'd probably say yes

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:04:36 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<One of many ninja Buddhas, Ninja Tathagata is trained in every ninja technique.> <xavid>

I sort of like the idea of "female" ending up sort of the weight of
"nerd".  Some people actively go for nerd, and some people end up
there, but it's not like real life is divided up precisely into
"nerds", "jocks" and "preps".

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:05:08 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 2 2 83 3942619 <cesium>

==xavid

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:05:49 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

agreed, that seems reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:05:57 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Jesus Christ: Fully human, fully devine.  Piper: Fully lesbian... - SIPB office <wings>

I think I want to s/female/feminine-or-something there, since I see
"female" as a mostly straightforward biological term, but otherwise
that seems reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:06:16 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I mean, yes, we all there are bigots who don't give a fuck about the
non-normative people out there/here/wherever, but honestly, I don't
think Geoffrey or I or most of the other people we encounter on zephyr
are intentionally disrespectful or unaware of the non-normative
position. So can we go back to the "everyone treats other people the
way that other people want to be treated" that was brought up earlier
and leave it at that?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:06:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<He is the mortal enemy of suffering; however, ninja techniques cannot conquer suffering in these the Latter Days of the Law.> <xavid>

When I'm not in "girl mode", I'm usally more in "whatever mode"
than in "guy mode", in my mental model.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:07:13 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 59 22185587 <cesium>

wings: -c gender has convinced me it's not actually so straightforward,
but this may not be the place for that.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:07:18 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

zhangc: it's a good default position, but I think it's also
fair to explore thte challenges in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:07:50 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I can agree with that.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:08:03 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<Category…> <xavid>

Cathy: there's a lot in the space of "unintentional but still hurtful
behavior" that bothers people.  If your golden rule accounts for that,
then I think it's a good moral, but I don't think being
well-intentioned is always sufficient.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:08:22 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Hey! No homophones on -c wings! You Are Welcome Hear! - geofft <wings>

cesium - It depends on how you define "sex", but biology tends to go
with "Y or no Y", and will add modifiers as appropriate to an
individual organism.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:08:31 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

question: how do you figure out what people want when you first meet them
without asking?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:08:44 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<When the Thorn That Does Not Kill went into Liril’s neck, she found a small round stone in her mouth.> <xavid>

"I'm not very feminine when I present as female."  I dunno, labels are
confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:08:57 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

kyoki: you treat them as a person.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:01 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

well, yes

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:04 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

that's obvious

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:14 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

so sometimes I crossdress

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Assuming ==xavid... one actively-going-for nerd can express to
another "You're going to play football!? Nerds don't play football"
and not have that be unreasonable or demanding things of the second
person's identity that they don't want. Can we get to the point where
"You're going to wear a skirt!? Men don't wear skirts" is also
acceptable?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I don't particularly want to be treated as a male when I do so

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It would be easier if everyone wore a name tag saying how
they ought to be treated (maybe, actually, that could also
be distopian, but let's accept it for the sake of
argument). It used to be that you could figure out from
people's appearance how they ought to be treated (or at
least how society expected you to treat them). Thats no
longer possible, but we haven'tt figured out good
replacement conventions.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:47 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Something has just gone amiss with my vehicle. <ternus>

==tibbetts

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:09:49 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

but how is a person to know this?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:04 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<She spat it out and into the monster’s hand. The monster tossed it aside, and from that time to this, Liril has been still and quiet.> <xavid>

Ideally, you pay attention and try to avoid making assumptions and
they politely let you know when you unintentionally screw up,
possibly with some assistance from mutual friends and the like when
possible.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:28 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I guess what I'm asking is that I agree with people saying you should treat
people as they want to be treated, I'm just wondering howe you figure out what
that is

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If we're going through the awkward phase where we can't use that,
because we're temporarily sacrificing it while we as a society figure
out gender in a better way, and it'll take a few generations but
eventually you'll be able to say something like that, I'm fine with
it. I don't want us to lose it permanently; while there are bad
things about the concept of "man" and "woman", there are good things too.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:42 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: The most dangerous kind of fool is one with a title. - Spartacus, Spartacus: Sand and Blood <wings>

I don't see the problem with asking.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:46 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

because in some cases, that desire includes not having that distinction being
brought up

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:10:59 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Geoff: You've twigged to something that is a tricky part of
social transitions like this, which some people decry as
"political correctness". To whit, historical stereotypes
that are being challenged can be emotionally charged, and
so their casual use goes out of favor. I believe casual use
can come back into favore once the pain of the stereotype
as been dulled by time.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:11:31 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

kyoki: I would ask, if it seemed like it could become an issue. But
normally one's gender or orientation or anything doesn't affect how I
interact with them. *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:11:50 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

sure

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:11:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I mean, it rarely comes up for me too

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:06 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

==zhangc, part of this is learning taht in many situations
gender is a non-issue.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:18 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

but I have totally accidentally used the wrong pronoun or something and gotten
people really pissed

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

But if it doesn't seem like their gender/orientation/whatever, then I
don't ask, and wait for them to bring it up if ever they choose to.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:37 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

> try to avoid making assumptions

um, you kinda need to make assumptions.
I generally go around assuming that people in
general appreciate me:
- opening doors for them
- not beating the shit out of them
- saying hi/waving
- offering to help if they are carrying
something that looks precarious
and a whole host of other thigns.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:46 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Which is why people get shirty about pronouns, because they
make gender relevant in situatins where it need not be.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:52 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<And yet.> <xavid>

I tend to think both "nerds don't play football" and "men don't wear
skirts" are harmful in general, though in healthy friendships I don't
have a problem with them in banter.  When they're used seriously, they
lead to sad friends.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:12:52 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

There are assumptions and there are assumptions.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:13:25 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

dude, some guy got sued in Atlanta for opening a door for someone

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:13:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: it starts with an evil-looking smiley and takes down your system :p -rnjacobs <ismith>

afarrell: And none of those should be gendered.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:13:42 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Now I am become zsig, the destroyer of worlds. <haiiro>

kyoki: ...successfully?

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:13:45 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Well, in such a case, I'd consider it not-my-fault, because I did the
best I could with whatever information, and if I missed a signal...
like, honestly, they're signals. You can't expect everyone to
interpret all signals the same and understand them correctly. What I
would see as justifiable pissed-off-ness would be if they had told me
their preference and I fucked it up.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:13:58 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I ... don't remember. It was really high profile because I think the guy getting
sued was a CNN reporter or something

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:03 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

let me see if I can find anything about it

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:15 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Anyway, I... need to get back to work.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:43 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<It is not so very long ago that Micah, in the schoolyard, found that stone, and picked it up, and named it Liril.> <xavid>

As far as I'm concerned, if you innocently mess up on pronouns and
people bite your head off, that's their problem, assuming you make an
effort when you know about pronoun desires.  But lots of people, cis
and non, do do the "bite your head off" thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Apparently in Turkey you don't hold doors for people, ever.
This lead to a Turkish friend of mine letting doors slam in
people's faces for the first few months of her freshman
year at Brandeis, before someone pointed this out to her.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:58 2011 Host: XVM-THREE-192.MIT.EDU
From: Forgive me, Hipster Jesus! I only sinned ironically. - geofft <wings>

== xavid

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:14:59 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, Andrew, are you describing the Guild or the UA? -pbaranay <ismith>

I would say you should do all those things for any person regardless
of gender, but I also think people don't do a good job of asking
first.  Which is a pet peeve of mine, because in the case of doors and
carrying things, Bad Things can happen if you do tohse unexpectedly.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:15:34 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<He chose that stone not by coincidence or by design, but by necessity.> <xavid>

afarrell: People get offended at people opening doors for them.  More
when my mom was in college than these days, perhaps.

Class: geofft Instance: else.repost
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:15:40 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

hm, it was a while ago, and my search terms are too generic to get anything

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:26:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm also going to go off and do some actual work now, but you guys are
free to continue the conversation here.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:26:30 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(Also I'm tempted to split my class into -c geofft, -c
geofft-obscure-nerdy-stuff-like-kvm-internals, and -c
geofft-loud-emotional-discussions-that-everyone-else-wants-to-punt)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:27:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What about -c
geofft-long-obnoxious-classnames-that-are-too-hard-to-remember ?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:27:45 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: so apparently neurons work like neural nets from 6.034 -afarrell <ismith>

This is what instances are for, people.  Seriously, I keep having to
say this.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:27:47 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

I think this is why topic classes are useful.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:27:55 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: "MIKKA MIKKA MIKKA MIKKA MUSHROOM MUSHROOM" - pbaranay <pbaranay>

When does Camilla start to yell at you?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:28:00 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Meddle not in the affairs of zsigs, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. <haiiro>

Subbed to all of those

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:28:29 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

this is also why I try to have standard instances that I reuse.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:28:30 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: "We go to graduation with the prize we have, not the prize we might wish to have." - ismith <pbaranay>

(for having too long class names)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:29:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

ismith: My instances tend to suck for that. Unless you want to do
something like punt -c geofft -i $x for every Debian package $x.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:29:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Also -i else fails.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:29:48 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Macs have ARD on when you're trying to connect to them?  Oh my. -mats_a <ismith>

Point.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:30:00 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

can you zpunt by regexen?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:30:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I'm deeply amused that the idea of taking a list of all debian
packages and punting those instance names.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:30:37 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yes, you can :punt anything that you can :filter.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:35:05 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Oh man, I'm totally gonna punt -c ZEPHYR_CTL

Class: geofft Instance: also
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:36:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... I should buy shorts.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:45:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think I know too much about makefiles now.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:45:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3d7c603 Blackfin arch: Remove wasted SIR header files <nelhage>

My condolences.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jun 24 17:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This is like a month or two back when I learned too much about
autoconf

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:38:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I wish I knew why at coffeeshops that require registration Windows
only holds on to the connection for like a minute and I need to
disconnect and reconnnect

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:39:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But, this makes working at coffeeshops difficult, since "has wifi that
works for other people" doesn't imply "has wifi that works for me"

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:40:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

More places should have wired Ethernet

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:40:23 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Not use Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:40:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Windows is what you use when Linux wifi sucks

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:41:11 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <ageng>

Do they disconnect you to give you a different IP address?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:41:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e47efd8 [SPARC64]: Fix set_utsname returning with uts semaphore held. <nelhage>

Get a smartphone that can tether. I barely even bother with cafe
wireless these days -- my N1's tethering performs better half the
time anyways.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:41:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No. Also to be clear this is _every_ time, not disconnect, reconnect,
and it works

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:42:07 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "Ping me." "Ping me now." -ismith, kaduk <ismith>

Get a Real Phone and tether?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:42:13 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Acronyms die hard, man. -pbaranay <ismith>

Oh, it's been said.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:42:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Run ubuntu, it'll probably work better than NetNanny'd Windoze?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:42:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm sure mine can, I just ddon't want to run a sketchy tethering app
from the store or run a sketchy sploit

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:42:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"All the cool kids do it"

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:43:00 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I've heard AT&T is cracking down on tetherers...

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:43:14 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

My phone has an official image and tethering capabilities...

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:43:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

See my reply to danjared. Also I think I need Oneiric or higher for my
hardware

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:43:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I only use ssh, in any case.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:43:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

it's just that connnectbot is too small for any real dev work

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:45:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

also why is there a dance party

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:47:12 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: @<It’s as big as a human hand, which makes it much bigger than the rock.> <xavid>

Why /wouldn't/ there be a dance party?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:48:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think what bothers me more is that this is reproducibly my laptop's
fault and I have no idea how to debug it.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 18:48:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"I even turned off IPv6"

Class: geofft Instance: assassin-writers.mq
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:16:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"That's my two cents. I also want to hear what your boffer people have
to say, and the rest of you."

Class: geofft Instance: assassin-writers.mq
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:16:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

i,i We'll have our boffer people talk to your boffer people

Class: geofft Instance: assassin-writers.mq
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:16:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

i,i ttants: lizard people, boffer people

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:31:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

One of these days I will break down and rewrite screen in Python and
make it more programmable than barnowl and emacs combined.
Today is not that day.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:32:08 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh MAN "rewrite screen in <well, anything>".  now there's a yak
shaving that i haven't heard before.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:32:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I mostly want screen to have tabs and some amount of "go away for a
while" functionality for windows

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:33:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh god screen on windows so much yak

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:33:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

*nested tabs?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:33:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No, like, screen windows. Not MS Windows

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:33:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Aw :)

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:37:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The Swedish Chef (from the Muppets) performs that techno song
"Popcorn".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvDvTnTGjgQ

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:42:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have a limit on bandwidth?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:43:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Get a laptop that'll let you insert your SIM and does 3G.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:44:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"I don't have a SIM"

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 19:50:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Me? No.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:03:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Have any Superman movies/TV shows/anything used Five for Fighting's
"Superman" on their soundtrack?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:04:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"The song was featured in the Superman TV series Smallville in episode
"Stray" (1.16) in Season 1"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:04:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_(It%27s_Not_Easy)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:04:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, good.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:06:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Ryan James (Ryan Kelley), a young boy who can read minds, is forced to
use his ability to help his stepparents rob stores. Ryan escapes his
stepparents and is taken in by the Kents, who are unaware of his
ability. Ryan immediately bonds with Clark, who he sees as his personal
superhero. Ryan's stepfather finds him in Smallville, and kidnaps him.
He attempts to use Ryan's abilities to steal Lex's trust fund. Clark
comes to Ryan's aid before his stepfather can kill him. Ryan's aunt is
located and she agrees to take custody of him. "

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:09:36 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The Swedish Chef has a very modern kitchen.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:23:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mostly meant Nelson for bandwidth.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:29:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

1. why did Pandora play "Kryptonite" three songs after "Superman"
2. same question :)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:30:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

LMWTFY

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:32:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I checked this time!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:33:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

LMWTFY?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:33:48 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Pandora is weird. For example, sometimes if you use all your skips in
a row it gives you new music! (i.e., songs that it's never played for
you on that station)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:34:49 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 857 1151 1327 <cesium>

adehnert: Lundi, Mardi, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Yesterday

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:35:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:35:21 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 3 101 1583 2729 <cesium>

(or maybe Let Me Wikipedia That For You)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 24 20:35:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Fri Jun 24 21:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Now leaks things into /tmp if you ^C it?

Class: geofft Instance: distractions
Time: Fri Jun 24 22:27:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, where was I? I seem to be running git log on alpine and reading
Android docs.

Class: geofft Instance: distractions
Time: Fri Jun 24 22:27:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

And... reading sartak's blog? Googling gay marriage? I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: google-ads
Time: Fri Jun 24 23:15:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It's a bit disconcerting to see ads for commerical GSSAPI stuff
everywhere I go on the Internet

Class: geofft Instance: google-ads
Time: Fri Jun 24 23:16:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There exists commercial GSSAPI stuff?

Class: geofft Instance: google-ads
Time: Fri Jun 24 23:17:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

http://www.centrify.com/directcontrol/overview.asp

Class: geofft Instance: google-ads
Time: Fri Jun 24 23:19:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If you want to use Active Directory with UNIX, then you're using
GSSAPI, and lots of people in the enterprise use both of those

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sat Jun 25 00:06:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wooo! New York passed same-sex divorce!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/25/us-gaymarriage-new-york-divorce-idUSTRE75O0GV20110625

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sat Jun 25 00:07:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Also, clever, WSJ's article is headlined "Gay Rites Law Passes". I see
wat u did thar

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Jun 25 01:38:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Yay." I am now familiar enough with debbugs to not have to look up
docs when filing a bug by email

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Sat Jun 25 02:12:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

My least favorite part of the summer is Verde's not being 24 hours.

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Sat Jun 25 02:12:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I, uh, -> Chicago Pizza *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun 25 18:26:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

-> Death Race

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Sat Jun 25 21:58:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

metallurgy
breaking out in hives when watching a Metropolitan Opera performance

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 26 01:50:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I feel like I should do one more productive thing before sleeping

Class: geofft Instance: apt
Time: Sun Jun 26 06:30:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh right. r-b...

Class: geofft Instance: apt
Time: Sun Jun 26 06:30:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jun 26 17:54:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This feels so similar to the ridiculous kernvers business in scripts'
OpenAFS module building code

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:17:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If you touch a file without tokens (in a system:anyuser i directory),
it sets the user to 32766.

Is that pts id reserved?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Huh. By `pts ex` returning nothing instead of an error, it looks like
it?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:18:48 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:19:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It is the "anonymous" user.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:19:39 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

"pts ex" returning nothing sounds like an API artifact.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jun 26 18:20:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

src/ptserver/ptserver.h:#define ANONYMOUSID     32766

Class: geofft Instance: saferide
Time: Sun Jun 26 22:51:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Are there... any SafeRides running?

Class: geofft Instance: saferide
Time: Sun Jun 26 23:54:38 2011 Host: ET-ONE-FORTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU
From: 2 13 239 457 461 <cesium>

[stark] Boston All is definitely running; it just doesn't show up on
NextBus (but Boston East does?)

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:14:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

sed -n l

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:14:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"List out the current line in a ``visually unambiguous'' form."

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:15:24 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Which means?

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:16:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

foo
foo$
foo bar
foo bar$
foo     bar
foo     bar$
foo     bar
foo\tbar$

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:16:56 2011 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From:  <ageng>

Also     
Also     $

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:17:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I guess it's like cat -A.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jun 27 01:30:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm distressed at how much cleaner the debhelper version of
config-package-dev looks.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jun 27 02:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I wonder if c-p-d should support udebs.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jun 27 02:44:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(I wonder if it Just Works, actually)

Class: geofft Instance: whoa
Time: Mon Jun 27 03:30:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, like 'l' in ed.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 19:50:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

> Silly Fedora.

SILLY HATS ONLY

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 19:51:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I have some of those.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 19:51:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

I don't actually have an silly hats...

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 19:51:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "LaTeX condoms are about as effective as you'd expect." - peairs <pbaranay>

You should remedy this deficit immediately.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 19:53:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

well, I don't have hats that are silly relative to afarrell.
I have, in CA:
- a fedora
- an ESPorkpie hat
- a top hat
- an ESPBaret

Class: geofft Instance: lp.q
Time: Mon Jun 27 20:56:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Releases are big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely,
mind-bogglingly big they are. I mean, you may think it’s a long haul
to release a single Linux package or application, but that’s just
peanuts to a Linux distribution release. Because of this, we must
work our way up to it, incrementally…bit by bit…milestone by
milestone…it takes a lot of Deep Thought. So with that, we formally
announce Ubuntu 10.10 Release Candidate. Codenamed “Maverick
Meerkat”, 10.10 continues Ubuntu’s proud tradition of integrating the
latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality,
easy-to-use Linux distribution."

Class: geofft Instance: lp.q
Time: Mon Jun 27 20:56:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Some time ago a group of hyper-intelligent pan dimensional beings
decided to finally answer the great question of Life, The Universe and
Everything. To this end, a small band of these Debians built an
incredibly powerful distribution, Ubuntu. After this great computer
programme had run (a very quick 3 million minutes...or 6 years) the
answer was announced. The Ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and
Everything is...42, and in its' purest form 101010. Which suggests
that what you really need to know is 'What was the Question?'. The
great distribution kindly pointed out that what the problem really was
that no-one knew the question. Accordingly, the distribution designed
a set of successors, marked by a circle of friends...to ultimately
bring Unity to all things living...Ubuntu 10.10, to find the question
to the ultimate answer."

Class: geofft Instance: lp.q
Time: Mon Jun 27 20:57:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "The Athena Release Notes were quoting Douglas Adams before it was
cool"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Jun 27 21:13:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

mary-kay-,ndos

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.latin
Time: Tue Jun 28 12:32:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

And they wrapped the child in swaddling clothes made from old
sweashirts... hoodie christus natus est.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.latin
Time: Tue Jun 28 12:33:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I was going to try for a joke about the old Mutlics error message, but
yours is better.

Class: geofft Instance: face
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:09:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm, I seem to have forgotten to shave.

Class: geofft Instance: face
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:10:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Maybe I should set up gcal reminders

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

TA offer for 6.858.

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I've been ... way less communicative with Nickolai than I would have
expected for this to just happen

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:12:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But whatever

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:12:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

++

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:13:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of justice <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:13:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

++

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:13:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"So, logically, next term you'll be TAing 6.859?"

Class: geofft Instance: got-item
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:13:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Haha

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:17:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The produce market is really really great... FOR CORN
It's right in Stata, so I don't have to wait... FOR CORN

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:18:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Orange you glad I didn't say zsig? <haiiro>

++

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jun 28 15:18:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That's the wrong number of syllables, Geoffrey.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 16:44:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Why is the top of my google black

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 16:45:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

mine is too

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 16:46:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Once you go black...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hmm. root@tyger and geofft@tyger are accounts on the same computer

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:08:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

This means when I edit /etc/hosts as root@tyger, geofft@tyger also
sees the same /etc/hosts.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:08:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:08:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:18:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

dammit script kiddies go away

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:54:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Also, [redacted], why is your web_scripts full of so much crap.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Jun 28 17:54:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

_Our_ web_scripts is way more reasonable. (I think)

Class: geofft Instance: n-c.roomq
Time: Tue Jun 28 18:11:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"Which story?"
"No one is drunk enough to tell him that story."
"Oh, _that_ story."

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:48:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

stop being black it's disconcerting

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:49:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's only black in FF, AFAICT?  Looks normal in Safari

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:49:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

It's black in Chrome too.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:49:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"If only you had a MacBook Air"

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:49:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Bam! You just got A/B tested.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:50:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It's black for me in both FF and Chrome.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:50:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Honestly I think we're both happy with me having a Kids PC and not a
MacBook Air.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:50:43 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"I was happier with the MacBook Air, since it had that keylogger on
it..."

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:50:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hah!

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Jun 28 22:51:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I guess I typed my CSAIL password on it, whose KDC you have no bits
on.

Class: geofft Instance: movies
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:01:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Watched "The Princess Bride". That was the dumbest thing I've ever
seen, and very well-executed too.

Class: geofft Instance: movies
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:01:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==you 100%

Class: geofft Instance: movies
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:02:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

well, except the part where i last saw it a decade ago.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

> AMSTERDAM: The Dutch parliament voted on Tuesday to ban ritual
> slaughter of animals, a move strongly opposed by the country's Muslim
> and Jewish minorities, but left a loophole that could let traditional
> butchery continue. 
> 
> It stipulates that livestock must be stunned before being slaughtered,
> contrary to the Muslim halal and Jewish kosher laws that require
> animals to be fully conscious. 
> 
> "This way of killing causes unnecessary pain to animals. Religious
> freedom cannot be unlimited," Marianne Thieme, head of Animal Rights
> Party, said before the vote. "For us religious freedom stops where
> human or animal suffering begins."

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:25:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, religious arguments aside, do you asses understand why you
cannot say that freedom stops where human suffering begins?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:26:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Democracy's defense of the right to suffer is what prevents it from
turning into "Brave New World" or "Equilibrium".

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:26:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(or "The Giver," or...)

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:27:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I think they mean nonautonomous suffering.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:28:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

or possibly suffering that wasn't agreed to absent violent coersion, but
given that they are europeans, they probably would include economic
coersion in there.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:28:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

er "economic coersion"

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:30:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Nonconsensual suffering is important, too. People have the right to
not hire job applicants, or cause their kid to throw a tantrum, or
leave a smitten but creepy lover, or many similar things

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:31:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

And I have the freedom to sprain my ankle without the Suffering
Police immediately administering anesthetics and soma. Not that I go
around spraining my ankle, but I should have the freedom to let it
hurt.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:31:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

agreed.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:32:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Apathy can be empowering, Paul." - ternus <pbaranay>

So do you believe euthenasia is also a right?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:32:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I believe euthenasia is a liberty.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:33:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I don't believe in the right to bear arms,
I believe in the liberty to bear arms.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:33:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm not sure what to think about euthanasia. My uncharitable position
is that it's fine because society no longer needs to maintain positive
population growth.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:34:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(Self-euthanasia, I assume you mean? I don't really believe in the
right of some dude with a mustache to euthanize millions of Jews)

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:34:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I suspect I should have opinions about what to do if society did need
to maintain positive population growth, or opinions that would be
stronger and true in either case, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:34:55 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 5 17 173 269 331 <cesium>

Where does the line lie between nonconsensual suffering and
nonconsensual genocide?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:35:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "really, interdisciplinary study is just a big incest fest." - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

Yeah, self-euthanasia/assisted suicide.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:35:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "QUANTUM RAPE!" - fyrrwulf <pbaranay>

That's at least morally consistent, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

cesium: what

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:36:14 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 47 13928921 <cesium>

You've said people have the right to inflict pain on others, and people
do not have the right to inflict death on a population. At what point
between those does it flip?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:36:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

genocide requires nonconsentual violence.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:38:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, I guess I have an answer. I don't believe the government has
any particular responsibility to research e.g. Tay-Sachs or
sickle-cell disease because it threatens some races more than others
and exists in some genetic lines and not others. It certainly has a
responsibility to research it as much as any other disease, but the
Genocide Police can't show up and force cures on you because your race
risks dying out if they don't.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:40:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

So I guess you're not a huge fan of seatbelt laws, then.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:40:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Obviously some dude who shows up and murders kids who belong to some
race is not cool. But the government also affords you protection from
a dude who shows up and tries to kill an individual... that's not what
I mean by permissible nonconsensual suffering

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:41:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

mherdeg: Do seatbelts help some races more than others?

It's fine to require seatbelts and even vaccines. But the special
justification for genocide being a crime against humanity doesn't
also serve as a justification to require that no race has any more
suffering than any other.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:42:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Oh, I wasn't thinking about genocide as a specific kind of "correctly
outlawed suffering" there.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:43:06 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 3 6803 32077 <cesium>

Okay, so the line lies somewhere on this side of murder. Do you have
more specific beliefs about its position?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:44:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

would you agree with:
someone who targets a particular race (or other identity group
for violence is more objectionable than someone who commits the same
amount of violence indescriminately.
?

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:45:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm not convinced "objectionable" is a useful term here. I'd agree
with "the government should spend more effort punishing those who
target particular races, and working to protect targeted races /
prevent races from being targeted, than it would on someone who
doesn't or would spend on arbitrary subsets of people being targeted"

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:46:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

But that's a policy thing, not a moral thing. If we'd never messed up
race (although I'm not sure how that would have happened) we wouldn't
have a responsibility to take such a policy.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:49:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

cesium: good question. Let me think... the motivation here is that the
line can't be hard on the side of "no suffering, ever". Sure, "all
suffering is good and we will not take steps to stop any of it" is
also not really a good place to draw it.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:51:07 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 47 487 57203 <cesium>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:52:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think it's basically that society wants to protect the independence
of the individual from other individuals, primarily so that it can
change and improve, but also because change and individuality is fun
and if we can protect that without cost to higher-priority things, we
might as well. Society also really wants to protect the integrity of
individuals, at a higher priority, because you can't really do
anything higher-level with individuals who keep dying or are
otherwise unusable.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:54:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

"You cannot suffer at all" impedes change, as does "Your abilities
differ from their abilities".

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:58:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

So I think that the point at which you risk integrity is a reasonable
line. There is no law against breaking someone else's heart; there is
against rape. There is no law against karate; there is against
dueling. There is no law against driving below the speed limit; there
is above. There is no law against drinking; there is against drinking
and driving.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Tue Jun 28 23:59:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I believe there are laws against driving far below the speed limit.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:00:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Fine. "according to the rules of the road". The point is that there's
still some very nonzero possibility of suffering when driving.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:01:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

The benefits of being in a position where your heart can be broken
outweigh the costs. The benefits of just about everyone having cars,
we have judged, outweigh the risks of sober people in their own cars
crashing into you; the benefits of just about everyone having cars
and also possibly being drunk in them do not, nor do the benefits of
just about everyone having planes.

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:01:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

That's exactly why I use linerva!

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:02:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

*facepalm* ++

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:02:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Obviously there's a line somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure if
there's a better way to describe it as "when the benefits outweigh the
costs" -- my point is just that they very often can, and so "freedom
ends when suffering begins" is misguided just as much as "America is a
free country, I can kill whoever I want"

Class: geofft Instance: nq
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:02:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

== mherdeg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

... Awesome. Google put up a whole bunch of downloadable fonts and the
CSS to DTRT with them.
http://code.google.com/apis/webfonts/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:17:28 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 2 2 7 23380733 <cesium>

That's been around for a while...?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:17:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm apparently behind

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:17:59 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 11 17 1193 5869 <cesium>

But yeah, it is nice.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:22:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I believe GNOME uses it to set their font (Cantarell) on their
various sites.

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:36:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, right. The Chinese Room argument is dumb. If you apply complexity
theory to it, it becomes meaningful. An algorithm that can implement
speaking Chinese in a more efficient manner than a lookup table
(requiring space on the order of the number of possible
sentences/interactions, and so presumably finite space in the limit)
knows Chinese. And it is algorithms that know; books, humans, boxes,
and systems thereof may implement algorithms.

Or really, more to the point, what do you mean by "know"? An algorithm
more efficient than a lookup table is useful for building other
language-speaking algorithms. A lookup table is not. If you mean
something else, say it and stop being surprised by the existence of
emulators or compound systems.

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Wed Jun 29 00:43:16 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 2 6301 51949 <cesium>

My impression of the argument was that it was mostly "I don't like the
idea that this box with a guy in it can be said to know Chinese, so it
doesn't."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 29 01:29:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

RAMPANT DESCRIPTIVISM

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:09:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I keep forgetting to sleep. Solution: MORE GCAL REMINDERS

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:09:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

GCAL REMINDERS FOR EVERYTHING

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:10:21 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: COWER IN FEAR, FOLLOWERS OF MAMMON, BEFORE THE GREAT BIRD REBORN AND THE COMBINED MIGHT OF SIPB -geofft <ismith>

GCAL REMINDERS FOR SOME, TINY AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:10:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I ... am up too late for having eaten dinner at 7:30.  And now I won't
be able to go to sleep.  Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:11:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

GEOFF DON'T FORGET TO BREATHE

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:11:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Hm. I think I was planning on another meal in there somwhere, also.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:11:46 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is this a geofft thing? Or an MIT thing? Or a college thing?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 02:13:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

clearly Geoff should get a long-distance girlfriend
to talk on the phone with every night so that he remembers to go to
sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: andersk-list-of-cows.prnf
Time: Wed Jun 29 11:53:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(to the tune of "Memory")
Anders
All alone on the moo lists
Has the moirad crashed yet?
Will the DCM cope?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 29 11:53:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

-> lunch -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Jun 29 12:46:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Wikipedia posted to jobslist? Awesome

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Jun 29 12:47:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yeah, someone who works there was talking about openings on a
personal IRC channel (mako's), and I suggested to her that she send an
email to anneh.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Jun 29 12:47:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Jun 29 12:49:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, s/pedia/media/

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.d
Time: Wed Jun 29 12:49:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I remember when that term was invented!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:09:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

There should be more clusters with sunlight.

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:50:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

2,700 *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:51:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ow

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:51:56 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

When's the last time you checked your email?

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:52:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

Yikes, what happened? You had 1000 fewer last week.

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:52:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I'm subbed to too many mailing lists.

Class: geofft Instance: inbox-zero
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:53:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Also, the majority of my mail is automated

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:53:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Let's add Natty to a cluster machine's sources.list and see what
happens.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:53:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room. Please increase the size of
APT::Cache-Limit. Current value: 25165824. (man 5 apt.conf)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:56:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

full-upgrade seems to be not really the best idea.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:57:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, I got that a few days ago.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 13:57:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, I bet I should add debathena natty to my sources.list too

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:12:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Okay, uninstalling cluster is kind of annoying

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:30:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

openmpi-commmon is installed on cluster?

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:38:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Where did my Chrome go?

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:38:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

*chrome

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:38:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think I'm running compiz because I can move windows around and I get
no focus-follows-mouse, but I have no window decorations

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:39:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Did gnome-settings-daemon crash?  I've seen that repeatedly in vmware

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:39:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, I wanted to run unity-window-decorator --replace in addition to
compiz --replace.

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:39:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(I upgraded a cluster machine's compiz to Natty's compiz to test
something)

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:40:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

woo that compiz seems to not have the "receiving a zephyr overrides
screensaver" bug!

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:40:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It still has memory leaks, so it's unclear we want to enable it by
default

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:40:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

:/

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:41:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But...but...but...SHINY!

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:41:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

but but but nonfunctional

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:50:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Also I just want to put this out here:
http://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus/sysd_stats/4000

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

We have two Linux Mint users.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Are they not, like, you?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

No.

And three Debian unstable

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'd bet money that at least 2 of those are tabbott

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We have Athena 9.3 users too.  What's your point?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

You can only blame me for one of the 12 squeeze entries.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:51:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And the other's probably spang

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:52:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

spang runs mint? "Shouldn't she run Debian?"
Or is LMDE happening?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:52:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, I mean that one of the sid users is probably spang

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:52:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Oh, oops. One unstable (sid), three testing (wheezy)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:53:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

tabbott, spang, zulu...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:53:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

zulu's running stable!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:53:40 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

What exactly is this counting?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:53:44 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I killed one lenny machine by trying to upgrade it to
squeeze.  (Not debathena's fault; xen (xvm)'s.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:53:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Machines that are counterlogging to us.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:54:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(Well, to ops. release-team doesn't get the raw data, although we can
ask ops to run queries)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:55:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://kb.mit.edu/confluence/x/TQlS 

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 14:58:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

squeeze runs fine on XVM, and I've not had trouble upgrading lenny
machines to squeeze machines on XVM.

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:18:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

More reasons adding natty to your lucid sources.list is a bad idea:
http://geofft.mit.edu/tmp/logout.png

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:20:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4b1b366 connector: convert to single-threaded workqueue <nelhage>

Impressive

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:21:31 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Oh, I know squeeze runs fine under xen, I just don't
seem to have enough rope to conveniently debug the machine when I have a
fiddly configuration detail wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:24:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

For "the paths of any binaries run during the session", is that the interpreter
for shell or python scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:25:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

I think it's what exec() gives us, so probably the scripts themselves

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:36:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

All right, aptitude wants to upgrade my libc to natty's just because
I want dpkg-dev back so I can apt-get source.

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:37:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

If my session falls apart, I'm going to declare myself done with
playing with cluster machines for today.

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:39:41 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is it "if" or "when"?

Class: geofft Instance: natty
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:39:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

Well, it seems to not have fallen appart

Class: geofft Instance: apartments
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:48:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

PSA: The one-bedroom apartment below mine is opening on August 1, and
a two-bedroom in the same building is opening later in August. Our
landlord is nice, the place (East Cambridge) is reasonable, etc.; if
you're looking for an apartment of that size and haven't found one
yet, I can put you in touch with him

Class: geofft Instance: apartments
Time: Wed Jun 29 15:48:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Attention all pilots... One lives one's death. One dies one's life. <geofft>

(I am probably staying in this apartment next term/year)

Class: geofft Instance: clusterq
Time: Wed Jun 29 16:18:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Are these 22-inch monitors?"
"Yeah."
"That is so small."

Class: geofft Instance: clusterq
Time: Wed Jun 29 16:18:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: clusterq
Time: Wed Jun 29 16:19:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Hey! The extra 2 inches (+ extra 24 inch monitor) I have at home spoil
me.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Wed Jun 29 17:17:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, http://collabedit.com/

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Wed Jun 29 17:20:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jun 29 17:32:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

bit.ly's website is bitly.com.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jun 29 17:32:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

i,i zombocom

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jun 29 17:33:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Well, they're no t.co.

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:05:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Really, zhm does the #define ever (;;) thing? I hate you.

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:05:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f62859b [PATCH] Remove SPAN_OTHER_NODES config definition <nelhage>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:05:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't hate a common emotion when looking at the zephyr code?

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:06:36 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Unicorns can solve SAT in polynomial time! -geofft <ismith>

... as in ... `for ever {}`?

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:06:40 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The atomic weight of Germanium is seven two point six four. <asedeno>

http://zephyr.1ts.org/changeset/2613/

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:08:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

zhm's code is impressively terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:08:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2be09cb of: remove special case definition of of_read_ulong() <nelhage>

Hm, do I still know a DoS bug against zhm, or was that just zwgc?

Class: geofft Instance: zhm
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:29:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I understand now why Karl is crazy.
(Except for the bit where he clearly was crazy to have adopted this
package at all.)

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:53:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Oh, Geoffrey.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:53:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Liz told me to stop quoting Star Wars.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:53:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:53:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I approve.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:54:55 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Contempt of my foot up your ass. -wtl <ismith>

Wait, when did you quot Star Wars?  The last zsig of yours that I
recall was the "Live your death, die your life" one.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:55:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-uQWNd540I

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:55:30 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 3 3 5 17 855821 <cesium>

ismith: That was from Star WAars.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Jun 29 23:55:58 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: you got my hopes up, and then twitter loaded properly. -melg <ismith>

. . . oh dear lord.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Is anyone, uh, "hanging out"? Can I join you? How do I see if my
friends are "hanging out"?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: POGES (pl.n.) The lumps of dry powder that remain after cooking a packet soup. <ahailes>

I am!

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle <kchen>

Your stream should tell you.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BABWORTH (n.) Something which justifies having a really good cry. <ahailes>

if you go to "start a hangout" it will show you live hangouts

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I see that you two hung out with Quentin yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:08:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Aha.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:12:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm very confused by this.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:12:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm used to talking to people in person and picking up subconscious
cues from that! Not Google showing me one person at a time and them
all having the audio source in the middle of my head!

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:14:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

There's an audio source in the middle of your head? You might want to
get that looked at by a doctor...

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:15:41 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Bah. Stop getting in the way of my point. -geofft <ismith>

Hey now, some perfectly functional human beings have audio sources in
their heads.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:16:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Not in the _middle_ of their heads :P

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:16:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

The algorithm for figuring out who's talking is amusing.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:17:14 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I saw the word 'cyborg' and thought of you. -zhangc <ismith>

It looks at which mic is active, and switches the video source tothat?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:34:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

o_O
So, my webcam software comes with various stupid effects, frames, etc.
It turns out this is implemented in the driver, not in the software.
And Google+ is picking it up

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:35:12 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Logitech, by any chance? Normally that's done through some weird
hackery in which the software program inserts itself as a filter
between driver and client.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:37:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Built-in but maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:37:31 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How do you activate the effects? On logitech cams it launches the
software to let you control it.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:38:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

From: "Pandab K Banerjee ( PK ) Promoting Global Mkt PortFolios via LinkedIn" <member@linkedin.com>
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
To: Ass Cunt <email-migration@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:38:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm gonna go ahead and make email-migration not a mailing list. It's
self-owned and nobody told me why I was on it and it hasn't gotten any
legitimate traffic since I've been on it

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:00 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What... is it? I see a lot of sipb usernames on it.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: If you make me Avenue Q-style muppets, I promise to record a YouTube video of "The Isilon is for Porn". -geofft <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's got IS&T folks on it.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross & Wheel <kchen>

It's the ACL for an RT queue.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I assume it's the help contact for people moving to Exchange, or...
something?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:39:55 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Please don't do that

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:41:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, you did.  Send mail please to hdops or something

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:41:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

i,i "I tried sending mail to the owner of the list, but it bounced"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:41:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:44:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I see they overloaded the notice and error fields:
http://geofft.mit.edu/p/google-plus.png

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:44:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Thu Jun 30 00:45:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I see they overloaded the notice and error fields:
http://geofft.mit.edu/tmp/google-plus.png

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 01:37:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 01:38:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 01:51:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"you know what I'm ldotsing"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 30 01:52:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> sleep, finally

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 12:29:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

You're the ent now, friend.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Thu Jun 30 12:37:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Maybe there is a god, and he loves militant atheists."
"What a waste! Why can't he love me instead."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 12:46:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Sigh. Of my first fifteen "recommended for you", one is Christian
apologetics, one is Christian hipster apologetics, one is atheist
apologetics, and the rest are MP3 downloads of contemporary Christian
music.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 12:46:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Dear Amazon: There are other things I care about. I realize this is
important, but.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 30 13:32:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Those were the days. Or something. They were certainly days."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:03:39 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

stark: What exactly is "Christian hipster apologetics"?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:04:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It loked like the book was one of the several taking an "organized
religion sucks but orthodoxy is otherwise awesome" angle.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:04:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Or really, "I was following Jesus _before_ Constantine said it was
cool"

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:05:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My eating orifice is not at that end of my body. <ternus>

"I follow the Gnostic gospels.  You probably haven't heard of them."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"The Catholic Church? Too mainstream."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:06:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: If you do not stop that, I will call the attendant. That is forbidden by  my religion. <ternus>

"I practice pre-Nicea Catholicism -- you know, before they sold out."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:06:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"I don't believe in Hell, but I do believe in Helvetica"

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:07:05 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

++

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:07:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Should I be perturbed by that substance on the floor? <ternus>

You win.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:10:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ran across this in a book on Calvinism a while back:

"He is the rare college student who is passionate about theology, and
feels a little bit like an outsider because of it. I wouldn't go so
far as to put him in the 'rabid young John Piper groupies'
department, but if he met a beautiful young girl wearing glasses, no
makeup, and an indie-rock T-shirt, reading Calvin's Institutes, he
probably wouldn't hesitate to ask her to 'court.'"

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:11:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We Earth people do not do that. <ternus>

Do people actually use that phrasing?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:11:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: This cannot be my room because I cannot breathe ammonia. <ternus>

It sounds as artificial as "come back to my bedroom and engage in some
homosexual activities."

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:13:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't think anyone actually goes "Would you like to court". But
talking about relationships as courtship instead of dating seems to
be trendy in some young-Christian circles. I think this is one of the
books that popularized that trend: http://amzn.com/1576730360

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:17:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

> a beautiful young girl wearing glasses, no
> makeup, and an indie-rock T-shirt,

Taylor Swift??

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Jun 30 14:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I guess I should buy things for my student group today

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:05:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"It looks like a pregnancy test crossed with a sex toy."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:07:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Swiss Army Knife of the bedroom?

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:08:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Geoff was describing a midi clarinet?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.d
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:18:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> ask her to 'court'

I read that and assumed that he was asking her to come to the
theological discussion sessions that he was the leader of.

Class: geofft Instance: techcash
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:24:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I was horrified to notice yesterday that a card reader on one of the
vending machines in 16-1 was Blackboard-branded.

Class: geofft Instance: techcash
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:24:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We outsourced techcash/vending machine integration

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:36:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

*opens mouth* *closes mouth*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:36:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

*stays in academia*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:39:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Square Thru 3 <kchen>

If the else is what I think it is, not all companies are that bad.
Especially like ones where one needs to be able to debug Internet
stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:40:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Horseshoe Turn <kchen>

(Although at one point, we were going to have a stupid policy in place
and then people complained and it didn't get put into place.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:41:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Oh? What policy?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:48:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Circle To A Wavers Motivate, Star 1/4 <kchen>

Windows and Mac laptops would be able to reach the Internet, while
dev machines could only reach internal services, because the laptops
were IT managed, whereas the dev machines aren't really.

Aside from making it difficult to do work, I didn't quite understand
it either, since I can do almost anything I want on my laptop,
although I don't have full administrator access.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:48:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

Hmm, although I don't even know how that would work anyway since my
testnet machines are not internal either.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:57:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“It means ‘Nameless’.” Martin hesitates. “I’m the smith,” he says. “I’m the test.”> <xavid>

I worked in an environment sorta like that before.  It was sorta
annoying occasionally, but not really a big deal.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 15:58:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<I’m the maker. I’m the bridge between what is and what isn’t.> <xavid>

(For us, the dev machines were VMs in a data center, not desktop
machines.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 30 16:08:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't understand Hipmunk. What does it do?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 30 16:09:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single Hinge & Roll <kchen>

Lets you optimize flights as a combination of several variables,
rather than any particular one.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jun 30 16:11:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

As best I can tell, the main innovations are the time-bar display
format (which matrix.ita already has) and the "agony" sort.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Thu Jun 30 16:16:25 2011 Host: LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU
From: Athena Consulting Exchange User <starnine>

    # check we're not running as root, or have explicitely and in
    # length expressed our desire to do so
    if not (os.geteuid()
            or options.im_ok_with_being_root_pretty_please_let_me_be_root):
        die("Please don't run the syncdaemon as root.")

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Thu Jun 30 16:16:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Some of us don't have to try to be jaded." - jhawk <pbaranay>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:13:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

SIPB Camp!

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:13:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Over a two-week period, you get a team of like three other
prospectives or members and work on a project and release it at the
end.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:13:52 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

holy shit

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:14:17 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh.  wait.  i parsed it in a different context. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:14:26 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: One is cannibalism and the other is disturbing. <wings>

I'm pretty sure this is supposed to sound like a horrible idea to me,
and yet...

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:14:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... no, we're not going to spend a month in the woods with other SIPB
members, or put on a stereotypic and low-quality play.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:14:55 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: statistically, 400 people in a dorm can't all be sexy and scantily clad. -cdhill <ismith>

Release early, release often.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:15:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why *not* do it in the woods? Bring a cell hotspot thingy.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:15:27 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I don't like this bug. This bug is standing between me and my food. -kaduk <ismith>

Live action rapid application development?

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:15:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: DULUTH (adj.) The smell of a taxi out of which people have just got. <ahailes>

assuming your project doesn't need good/consistent internet access...

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:16:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: HARBOTTLE (n.) A particular kind of fly which lives inside double glazing. <ahailes>

(which seems unlikely)

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:16:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: KEELE (adj.) The horrible smell caused by washing ashtrays. <ahailes>

but really, this sounds like an awesome idea, not a bad one

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:16:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

glasgall: Because we don't shower enough in civilization, why risk
going to the woods?

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:16:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"speak for yourself", but OK, I can't dispute the wisdom of that.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:18:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I would *totally* consider doing that if I actually had spare time.

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:19:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BRECON (n. anatomical trem) That part of the toenail which is designed to snag on nylon sheets. <ahailes>

would have been an awesome IAP thing, if I still had IAP

Class: geofft Instance: else.brilliant-plan
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:19:22 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I figured I might count as an Ian for the purposes of this exercise -wings <ismith>

==ahailes

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:48:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Your _mwm_ is a nonfunctional window manager!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:48:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "really, interdisciplinary study is just a big incest fest." - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

*groan*

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:48:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 30 17:49:13 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "Ping me." "Ping me now." -ismith, kaduk <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Thu Jun 30 20:15:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm a bit surprised at how much distributed-systems knowledge I
didn't pick up from 6.824. Admittedly I didn't do well in that class,
but this seems foundational... like I should at least recognize these
papers.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Thu Jun 30 20:15:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Even if I didn't actually understand them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 21:41:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Now I'm thinking of operational transforms as applied to square dance
calls and decentralized callers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 21:42:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I suppose someone has already written the entirely-too-nerdy catalogue
of what calls commute and under what circumstances.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:07:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Mawwiage! Mawwiage! Twue wubwubwubwubwubwubwub

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:10:01 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Thy color is more lovely and more linearly related to the pH of the solution. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

> wub

i,i You keep using that word!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:14:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

mmanley!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:15:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I miss him.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:15:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

like, in person?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:25:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

No, in the zlogs, arguing about msmtp-mta.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:30:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Anyway, disadvantages of being a maintainer of all the software in the
stack you use, partial list: I filed one scripts ticket and one
debathena ticket in the process of installing software on my dialup so
that I can have a Trac for something completely unrelated to any of
those three.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Thu Jun 30 22:37:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... ia32-libs-gtk? That's a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:32:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(still chasing recursive references, eventually I'll get to the topic
at hand)

Okay, Wikipedia tells me that Hoare's book on communicating sequential
processes is the third-most-cited in all of CS according to Citeseer.
How have I never heard of CSP but still hold a degree in CS
concentrating in systems from MIT?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:32:52 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: a little mouse, with gloves and a parka on, just waiting for the light to go out <eichin>

you don't get out enough? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:32:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Ok... what's the number one reference?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:33:49 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From:  ... the better you look, the more you'll see. <eichin>

(I'd have expected it to come up in whatever the modern 6.033-equivalent is)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:33:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Liquidate real estate! <ctl>

Oh, instance.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:33:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: But to-day we have involved ourselves in a colossal muddle, having blundered in
the control of a delicate machine, the working of which we do not understand. <ctl>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:37:47 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Your brain can't ALWAYS work like this.  You wouldn't have survived childhood. <eichin>

actually, citeseer says it's #2 :-)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:38:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information wants to be anthropomorphized. <eichin>

looks like I recognize 4 others in the top 10.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:40:20 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: If you do not have a problem, one will be issued to you. <eichin>

(I'm not familiar with #1, "Maximum likelihood from incomplete data via the EM algorithm"
Dempster/Laird/Rubin)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly.d
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:41:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Geez, expectation maximazion is as new as 1977? 

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:41:38 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There is no overkill.  There is only "open fire" and "time to reload". <eichin>

oh, actually, now that I look the Chord paper is
familiar too, so 5/10

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:41:55 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: his house is in The Village, though... <eichin>

(but I'm not a computer scientist :-)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:51:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

eichin: It definitely wasn't in 6.033. Pretty sure it wasn't in 6.824
either

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:53:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's All the Galaxy's Spaceships) <eichin>

interesting.
(as a non-academic, looking at #10-#100 I know more of those than I
expected, but at that point a lot more of them are practical
engineering references like stroustrup and ousterhout)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  1 00:56:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  1 09:39:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Whoa, PyPy is switching from the GIL to STM? Crazy talk.

(Also, I wonder if I have any perfomance-critical Python code that I
should start running under PyPy instead of CPython...)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  1 09:41:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“What would you have done?”> <xavid>

"Let's just switch the default python interpreter on scripts and see
if anyone notices."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  1 09:42:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I was more thinking about having the most performant /mit evar, but
that works too.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Jul  1 09:43:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"What will come of all this is unknowable; expecting rational,
consistent, or predictable behavior from corporations is a good way
to be surprised."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Jul  1 09:44:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(re Nokia and MeeGo and Windows Phone 7 and the N9)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Jul  1 10:26:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"For a completely different view, see OpenBSD, which only grudgingly
admits the existence of a user base outside of its development
community at all. OpenBSD leader Theo de Raadt put it clearly a while
back:

"'We hack OpenBSD for ourselves. Not for you. Not for the users. If the
users end up enjoying what we have created for themselves, good for
them. This may be because some of the users are have the same needs as
us. But, then they are just lucking out, since we are doing it FOR
OURSELVES.'

"This position evidently works for this particular project, though it
does lead to occasional misunderstandings when users forget their
place."

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul  1 11:16:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... Nelson's epoll hackery is really old, isn't it? They just fixed
it?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jul  1 12:39:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

cashflow-positive
Ke$ha-positive

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:38:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I have serious Poe's Law problems with telling if jinstone is really
this excitable, or self-aware of it and perpetuating it on purpose.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:38:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

nope. she's actually that excitable.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I am toxic. <ternus>

Have you ever met her in meatspace?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't think so.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My companion is not edible. <ternus>

(It's some of both, but mostly the former.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

...I don't think it's any of the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I haven't either, despite being mistaken for/compared to her numerous times

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Right, I figure she has to be at least _aware_ of how excitable she's
appearing.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I mean, she's self-aware

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:39:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

but she's not doing it on purpose.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:40:00 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Turn that "AAAAAHH" upside down (er, backwards) and laugh in 6.02's face! HHAAAAA! - peairs <wings>

== kasittig

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:40:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

she didn't seem that excitable when I met her.

Maybe I am just a profoundly boring person!

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:43:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm not sure if I should resist the temptation to pull a Facebook and
put everyone I know in the friends list.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:43:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I feel like I kind of regret having 200 high school ~friends in my
Facebook...

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:44:04 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: The most dangerous kind of fool is one with a title. - Spartacus, Spartacus: Sand and Blood <wings>

Make a "high school people" circle?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:44:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm not going to add people I'm not in touch with at all. But there
are folks I know now that I vaguely expect not to keep in touch with
in two years.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:44:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Part of the question is that I don't like making that decision even
in front of myself about people.)

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:44:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Hahah. "Our relationship has a time limit."

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:45:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

There was actually a documentary about that premise -- um, it had a
silly title -- oh, right, "Legally Blonde"

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:46:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

One option might be to pull a zephyr-private-class and have everyone
on "friends" and an additional circle of "even closer friends"?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:47:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

that's what I did.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:47:13 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Ergo ipso facto columbo oreo. - from Bones <wings>

That's what I have

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:47:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Haha. I like how that's basically equivalent to "Acquaintances" /
"Friends" but the names are better.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:47:54 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 3 107 2039797 <cesium>

> have everyone on "friends"
Doesn't it do this for you by letting you share with "Circles"?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:47:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ping Pong Circulate <kchen>

I haven't actually implemented this yet, but I feel like I need a
level in between Acquaintances and Friends.  That being said, I
haven't actually posted anything restricted to particular circles.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Left Swing Thru <kchen>

(I have also not implemented the additional circle level.)

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Is this intended to be erotic? <ternus>

I'm picturing geofft's circles as "Cherubim," "Seraphim," "Thrones,"
"Dominions," "Virtues," &c.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I've shared geeky shit with my MIT circle and not my other circles

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The T Party would support public transportation, but be disqualified for being 2 hours late to all the debates." - ekate <pbaranay>

ternus++

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've been dividing people up into circles both by how I know them and
how close I am to them, since it lets you put people in more than one
circle.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:48:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Take me to the Earth Consulate immediately. <ternus>

Concentrically increasing.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:49:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle <kchen>

You could copy it from a known working system.  The installation disk
might also be able to help, but it's been too long since I've
installed Windows to recall.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:49:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(You're mixing)

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:49:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

Oh, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:50:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I have:
- friends
- family
- acquaintences
- following
- APO
- bayarea
- CERT
- cmuzephyr
- EC
- ESP
- GEL
- hot chicks
- ITA
- nerfwar
- NetApp
- OMCS
- pika
- Randomites
- senior-house
- Shaker (high school)
- SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: google+.d
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:50:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

i,i "you could copy your social circles from a known working system"

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:50:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: These limbs are not mine. <ternus>

> hot chicks
God dammit, dude, Have We Learned Nothing?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:51:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

my friend has "bros" and "hoes"

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:51:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

"bros" gets updates about his car

"hoes" gets shirtless updates about his car

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:51:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Well, as long as you sort alphabetically.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:51:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

he's doing it ironically, though, so it's ok

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:51:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

==mherdeg

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:53:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

hot chicks is actually my
"tell me if google accidentally leaks whe names/contents of my
circles"

It currently includes:
- apfarr
- kasittig
- jhurwitz
- wings
- mikabr
- alexwest
- catherio
- rhkeeler
- clyde
- quentin
- jinstone
- brogan
- wdaher
- yan_z
- ismith
- zeldovich
- kree
- renminbi
- nelhage
- ezyang
- flipdog
- rchasin
- jhamrick
- alexmv
- geofft
and some people you don't know

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:54:02 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: /This/ was worthy of going onto your unclass? -zhangc <ismith>

I was contemplating asking if I was a hot chick.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:54:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm not sure if I'm more uncomfortable with me being there, my advisor
being there, or both of us being there

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:54:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I suppose by making this public I'v reduced the chance that anyone 
will loudly in confusion and offense

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:54:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

also I forgot to add leonid

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:54:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

D'awww. Or something.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:55:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I would rather do it myself. <ternus>

> loudly in confusion and offense
If you wanted that, you should have named it 'ugly chicks.'

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:55:40 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

At some point google will likely add a "except" qualifier to posts,
right?  That's what I use on Facebook (friends minus work minus
family)

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Fri Jul  1 15:59:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Organizer of Victory <afarrell>

I think zeldovich is there because my 6.828 group got distracted once
by a discussion of whether he or kaashoek was hotter.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jul  1 16:06:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ceci n'est pas un meep.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jul  1 16:07:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

meep!

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Fri Jul  1 16:54:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"brogan graphs with zero-knowledge proof systems"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:13:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

s/is switching to STM/is going to try STM and see how it compares/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:13:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you have any performance-critical Python code, though, you should
definitely try running it under PyPy.

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:15:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

   CVE-2011-1493: When parsing the FAC_NATIONAL_DIGIS
   facilities field, it was possible for a remote host to
   provide more digipeaters than expected, resulting in heap
   corruption.

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:15:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Okay, that sounds like something out of a bad science fiction movie.
"The remote host is providing too many digipeaters!"

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:15:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"We're experiencing severe heap corruption! Stop parsing the National
Digis!"

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:17:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Erm: http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2011-1493?

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:18:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, it turns out CVE kind of sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:18:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Or NVD, or both. "For more information contact nvd-sucks@mit.edu"

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:20:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

... I suppose there's no reason ham radio stuff shouldn't
get CVEs, but...

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:20:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It was reported by Dan Rosenberg, it looks like.

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Therefore, it gets a CVE.

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:20:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Is it in the kernel stuff?

Class: geofft Instance: cve
Time: Fri Jul  1 17:20:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:05:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Net Nanny periodically deciding that reddit.com is pornographic is
surprisingly useful.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:07:29 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: It is bright. You are likely to be eaten by a bleen. -ismith <ismith>

Net Nanny may not be wrong, even.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:10:32 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's right -- Rule 34 just hasn't completely taken over yet (see:
4chan/b/)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:11:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Net Nanny won't even let me get to
4chan.org/whereverthemylittleponyfansare/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:12:28 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't know why I just googled this, but it's /co/
for 'colts'

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:36:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Seems to be "Comics & Cartoons".

Class: geofft Instance: scripts.syslogs
Time: Fri Jul  1 21:47:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... Pro tip: our SSH server is not an open HTTP proxy. See also, "our
SSH server".

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:02:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

O_o
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573745

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:05:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:05:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

Somewhere things are a'sploding

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Spoilers, but here's the best part:

On Sat, Mar 05, 2011 at 12:18:46PM +0000, Sandro Tosi wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 22:58, Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote:
> > I would vote against this.

> can you swear your NACK is completely unrelated to the fact you're a
> collegue of Matthias in
> Canonical/Linaro/whatever-umbrella-company-is-now? What I think it's
> important, is to understand if, and in what part, you judgement can be
> biased by external factors than just Debian technical ones.

For insight into why Matthias avoids communicating with you, you need
look no further than your own adversarial response to my message.  I
am not on trial here; cross-examining the members of the TC is not
part of the constitutional process.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:08:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

...what.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:08:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

Would "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!" be appropriate here? I
don't even understand what's going on now...

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:09:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Good cross-examination question, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... It looks like doko hasn't responded at all?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.python
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:13:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

In over a year? I realize the original mail was a bit rude, but if an
issue has actually been raised to the technical committee, I feel like
he should say _something_

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Fri Jul  1 22:51:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

with a lager
with a liger

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:03:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

The new mass translation sucks :-(

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:03:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's like they took everyone that knew how to write poetry and
wordplay and excommunicated them.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:04:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

In addition to "not worthy to receive you", they also got rid of
"Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life"

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:05:31 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

For the uninitiated, care to provide a few before and afters?

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:06:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"Neither me nor geofft is Catholic"

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:06:50 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

then why are you... i'm confused already.  

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:06:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

We're writing a mass.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:07:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i guess i like liturgical mu-ohhh

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:08:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

1973 memorial acclamations options:
- Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
- Dying you destroyed our death, rising you restored our life. Lord
  Jesus, come in glory.
- When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death,
  Lord Jesus, until you come in glory.
- Lord, by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free. You are
  the Saviour of the world.
(the first two the most common)
The translation that will take effect this Advent:
- We proclaim your Death, O Lord, and profess your Resurrection, /until
  you come again.
- When we eat this Bread and drink this Cup, we proclaim your Death, O
  Lord, until you come again.
- Save us, Saviour of the world, for by your Cross and Resurrection
  you have set us free.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:09:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

They took Jesus out of the equation.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:09:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

And Christ? Jesus Christ?!

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:09:24 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Whoa!  ==!  No Jesus!

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:10:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Huh, did they murder "Christ has died" in 2005?
http://www.adoremus.org/0705BishopMeetingReport.html
"On the advice of the Committee.s theological advisors, and after much
discussion ... the Committee has declined to recommend this
acclamation for a theological reason. Unlike the acclamations of the
Ordo Missae, the acclamation .Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ
will come again. is more an assertion, a statement, rather than an
expression of the gathered assembly of its incorporation into the
Pascal Mystery. No pronoun is used to signify the people being
incorporated into the Pascal Mystery. In the other memorial
acclamations that incorporation is specified. For example: .Dying you
destroyed our death, rising you restored our life .... Therefore the
committee voted to drop this one acclamation."

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:10:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

The intent of the retranslation is to be more faithful to the the
Latin from Vatican II. For the memorial acclamation:
- Mortem tuam annuntiamus, Domine, et tuam resurrectionem confitemur,
  donec venias.
- Quotiescumque manducamus panem hunc et calicem bibimus, mortem tuam
  annuntiamus, Domine, donec venias.
- Salvator mundi, salva nos, qui per crucem et resurrectionem tuam
  liberasti nos.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:10:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, they've been working on this for a bit

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:11:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Well, those sure are close to the Latin.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:12:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah. See also "Glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on
earth" became, from "Gloria in excelsis deo et in terra pax hominibus
bonae voluntatis", "Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth to
men of good will".

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:12:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

I guess some people like to read their Aeneid taken literally, and
other people like it with a little poetic license.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:14:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Therefore, Lord, we pray, graciously accept this oblation of our
service" What the crap is an oblation I thought we were translating
this into the _vernacular_

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:16:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

o_O The Nicene Creed? Now in the first person singular.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:17:53 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

*boggles*

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Fri Jul  1 23:17:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I guess it's "credo in unum deum patrem omnipotentem" &c., not
"credemus" or whatever it should be

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:00:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... I want to try singing over a G+ hangout

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:00:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

in STEREO!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:00:44 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 2 23 2137 6661 <cesium>

Wait, I totally had this idea.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:00:54 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 3 3 72754403 <cesium>

I don't know if the latency is generally low enough.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:01:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"anyone want to try it right now?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  2 00:05:38 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 2 7759 84391 <cesium>

There are at least three going on right now. "pick one and hijack it"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul  2 13:53:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.my.sipb.drawer
Time: Sat Jul  2 15:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I printed the aptitude manual 4up in 2007?

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.my.sipb.drawer
Time: Sat Jul  2 15:34:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... Is this xv6? It seems to be a crappy tiny UNIX kernel with an even
crappier attempt at SMP support, so I assume so.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.my.sipb.drawer
Time: Sat Jul  2 15:40:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Apparently for "What is the best aspect of 6.828", I put "git" with a
little heart over the i.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:07:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

In any case, I bet this means I can't reply to ALL the mail! right
now, so. -> home?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:08:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Oh I guess I have other things to do like reinstalling my laptop

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:10:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, I guess I'm done ACKing things for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:10:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, I have more commits for you!

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:10:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(no, not really)

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:11:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I suppose I could continue slogging through thirdparty ... or I could
figure out why my code for work isn't actually writing data to disk.

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:11:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Can I move packages to production tomorrow?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:12:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Or does it have to be Monday through Thursday?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:12:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

which packages?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:12:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There's nothing in proposed?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:12:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Aww, crap, there's stuff in -development instead? Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:13:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Shit, login-graphical's build-deps don't work because there's no
thudnerbird in Debian due to wankery

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:13:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do I have to create a debathena-maybe-thunderbird or something?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:14:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Does sbuild's resolver not deal with thunderbird | icedove correctly?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:14:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, can I just do that?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:14:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't actually know. I think that may be in the current development
version of sbuild.

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:15:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't that what the maybe-foo packages are for?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:15:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah. Or in your case, debathena-cupsys-hack. I'm questioning if we
still need them.

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:15:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hrm, can I play stupid games with apt-cache show or apt-cache policy?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:16:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do I actually need to install a package to test its version?

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:16:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Probably, actually, if it's just version you care about

Class: geofft Instance: consult.d
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:16:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's all we test with dpkg-query...

Class: geofft Instance: leveret.doxory
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:46:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

x) Oneiric
y) Wheezy

Class: geofft Instance: leveret.doxory
Time: Sat Jul  2 23:54:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I think I'm gonna go with wheezy because I care slightly more about
Debian development stuff than Ubuntu development stuff

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 01:16:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

When people say that they do something to "the whole archive", do they
really have a script that runs apt-get source on everything, or is
there a more elegant way?

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Sun Jul  3 01:40:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, Android seems to get real confused when you put an ext2-formatted
SD card in.

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Sun Jul  3 01:41:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(I'm trying to use my phone as an SD card adapter and it's failing. It
didn't mount the card because it had an "unsupported filesystem", and
the USB Mass Storage applet is spinning.)

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Sun Jul  3 02:24:50 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think the real question is "why do you have an ext2 formatted SD
card"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 03:37:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You keep a local mirror of the archive

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 03:37:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'll let you decide whether that's more or less elegant

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:44:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

;;;;;;;

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:45:03 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: space pipers, pipers in space, because in space, nobody can hear you yell ponies - codetaku <wings>

:D

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:45:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(It's like ^_^;;;;;;;; without the ^_^.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:45:25 2011 Host: 18.111.115.247
From: 5 5 52389037 <cesium>

\lsemicolons{}

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:45:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

(are we supposed to know what ^_^;;;;;;;;;; means?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:45:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

I do!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:46:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It's apparently a trail of tears.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul  3 16:46:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

not usually >.>

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Jul  3 19:05:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Apparently gay people are actually just like children of Westboro
Baptist Church members who go to seminary after MIT or Caltech.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Jul  3 19:05:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

I... what?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Jul  3 19:07:11 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: But what is it for?  Why does it mean? <wings>

Pretty much, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:05:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... can I go to Mary's by myself and just get ravs or suan or
something? Does that even work?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:05:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I'm sure it does.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:05:46 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: So everyone should continue to not panic. - 6.01 <wings>

Yes...?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:05:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

i,i "I thought they had a minimum party size of 8"

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:15:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Okay, it's actually kind of depressing that we have more active
Solaris-Athena machines than Debathena Lenny and Hardy machines
_combined_.

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:16:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Depressing?  I think it’s encouraging that people actually upgrade. 
You know, unless they’re linerva maintainers.

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:16:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There's no upgrade path from Sun.  

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:16:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"One of these is considered a real platform by commercial software
vendors, and one isn't"

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm actually not sure which one is which.

Class: geofft Instance: athena9
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:58:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Does cdrecord Just Work, or do I need to run like athrun consult
burn-cd or something dumb?

Class: geofft Instance: athena9
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:58:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You need to be root.

Class: geofft Instance: athena9
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:58:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(or otherwise have permissions on the device)

Class: geofft Instance: athena9
Time: Sun Jul  3 20:58:35 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, _why_?

Class: geofft Instance: athena9
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:00:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Because I'm sitting here

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:08:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Okay, the CD boot menu is kind of cute.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:09:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Do I dare to use the "Graphical install"?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:13:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

For Debian, it's actually just a Gtk frontend to d-i

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:14:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, it seems, and it works reasonably well, I think? I'm a bit
scared if it'll do the right thing with partman, but. (I need to
resize my NTFS partition)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:14:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Anyway, "crap I need a root password"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:14:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

parted-based tools seem to do OK at resizing ntfs these days.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:15:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Does partman backend to parted?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:15:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd sure hope so.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:15:56 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Resizing NTFS on Windows 7 may make it explode, requiring the recovery
partition. It's better to resize it from Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:16:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Can Windows resize NTFS losslessly these days without buying extra
tools?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I was just about to ask that... hm, I should try it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:16:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Also, really?)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:21:25 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yes to both. Windows as of Vista has a built-in resizer. AFAIK the
parted resizer did something to make it non-bootable early on, that
required the recovery partition to fix it up. I don't know if this is
still "broken", but rather safe than sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:23:03 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Nonetheless I suspect the Windows resizer is slightly less dumb about
modern NTFS features than the open source one; it is however way more
dumb about what it can resize *down to*; it refuses to compact data.
So defrag as needed to make it shrink down enough if it gives you
problems.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:23:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> defrag
1994 *definitely* just called and asked for its tools back.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:24:27 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'd recommend http://www.piriform.com/defraggler to move stuff around
rather than the Windows defragment tool.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:24:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

ntfsresize does mark the disk as in need of a chkdsk at next boot, but
I thought that was more of a safety thing.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:24:56 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We're using a defragmenter for its compacting features here, not
defragmenting.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... what are these partitions?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:43:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I have a 1.5 GB Active, Recovery Partition, a 217 GB Boot, Page File,
Crash Dump, Primary Partition on C:, and a 15 GB Primary Partition
with no drive letter.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:43:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Windows only believes the middle one has a filesystem

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:44:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The first one is probably somesort of recovery partition, as it says.
the second one is drive C, and the third is probably S2D or some sketchy
vendor thing

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:44:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

S2D?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:44:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Suspend to disk?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:44:43 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

suspend to disk

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:44:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Do I want to resize the middle partition and leave the rest alone?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:45:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's so much less confusing when you install Windows yourself...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:45:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Probably?  I'd poke at the last one with Linux and see what's actually
there.  I've seen vendors do stupid things like have a small bootstrap
recovery partition and keep recovery DVD ISOs on an even-more-hiddener
partition

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 21:46:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

HP, in particular, used to do really stupid shit like that

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:27:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Important question: do I want to name my local user "geofft" or not?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:27:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

no

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:27:43 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I usually go with "localjdreed" on my test machines

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Heh, then you need an $ATHUSER

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

This will probably end up becoming a real machine. I'm just unsure how
much I'll be testing Athena logins as opposed to everything else.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OTOH, I test AFS logins more often than normal

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, for your primary machine, then yeah, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

This is a laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:28:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's gonna run wheezy/sid, so I'm probably not actually installing
debathena-workstation on it :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:30:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Second important question: do I want to use LVM, or do I expect
waldi to be an asshole again?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:39:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Crap, I bet I have no card access to anything now.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:39:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Did you not find your wallet?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:40:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I did. I just failed to renew my card on 6/30.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul  3 22:40:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

:-/

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 00:21:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

All right! Got it working. Still squeeze, but using the kernel and
firmware-realtek from wheezy

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 00:21:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 00:22:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Next up is upgrading the rest of the system to wheezy. This is less
pretty than I expected...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 00:36:41 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] Windows does not have a dedicated suspend-to-disk partition.
The typical OEM laptop layout this days is:
Partition Type | Size | Type/Label
Primary        | 100M | Boot (no label)
Primary        | MAX  | C:
Primary        | 10GB | Recovery (E:)
Primary        | 100M | EFI (optional, FAT32 formatted)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 09:24:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... does Epiphany not support ... animated gifs?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 09:24:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

On the plus side, Reddit is way less compelling as a way to waste
time. On the minus side, that time will probably be spent sending a
fix upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Mon Jul  4 09:40:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

What exactly is a "group with links to Anonymous"?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Mon Jul  4 09:41:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

i,i "You know our names, but we have some friends whose names you
don't know"

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Mon Jul  4 09:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also, really, do you fail at finding the delete button?
http://twitter.com/foxnewspolitics

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Mon Jul  4 10:04:59 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Yes Ian, I have a fetish for the T. That's why I live off campus. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

... someone's going to have a bad day.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 10:22:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The situation is proving unacceptable and disempowering for him, and there’s no easy retreat.> <xavid>

Some browsers have an option to disable them.  You should check that
they're not just disabled by default in preferences somewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:00:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

TSA line. Flight takes off at 12:15. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:01:16 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: MIT administration can be modeled by bunnies and carrots. - remeyer <wings>

Takes off or boards?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:01:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

Hope that it's delayed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:01:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

Otherwise you are pretty out of luck.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:02:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

talk to an attending tsa person; they always let me jump the lines in
this situation...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:02:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Isn't it a dead zone on july 4th? It was pretty quiet yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:05:38 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

==lizdenys, you can try to jump the line!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:15:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

takes off.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:16:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

missed it (plane is here but gate closed). gonna go back in town fir a
bit, what's useful to do?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:16:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

tsa person was like "talk to passengers and cut"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:20:05 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

If it's any consolation, Geoffrey, I arrived at a flight 10 minutes
before the doors closed with plenty of available seats and they wouldn't
let me get on because it would take them too long to reticket me onto it,
they claimed.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 12:58:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Huh, you can do that?
Depends: git (>> 1:1.7.5.4), git (<< 1:1.7.5.4-.), git-doc, git-el,
git-arch, git-cvs, git-svn, git-email, git-gui, gitk, gitweb

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 13:00:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also, git-all brings in Apache? Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 13:06:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

gitweb.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Jul  4 13:08:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wonder if there is a more graceful way to deal with two non-bare
repos pushing/pulling each other.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Jul  4 13:08:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

i,i rsync

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  4 13:25:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Stayed at Logan. I'm sitting outside the gate A20, which is being
closed. Looks like they decided they don't need more than 1 megabyte
of RAM.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Mon Jul  4 14:58:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Okay, writing tiny httpd.confs for one-off servers is teaching me way
more about Apache than I ever knew.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul  4 16:21:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You can do what?

Also, you can satisfy gitweb with lynx-cur instead of apache2.

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 01:54:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/technology/04piazza.html

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 01:56:39 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 3 37 11800409 <cesium>

...wait, is it down to two Z's now?

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 01:59:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

It's only a matter of time before it becomes 'pizza'.

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 02:04:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... so it is.

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 02:05:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Relying heavily on word of mouth, Piazza has expanded from roughly
three colleges to more than 330 in the last year. At Stanford, the
first to start using the service, more than half of the
undergraduates are registered users. As in the case of Facebook, the
wildly popular social network that sprang from a Harvard dorm room,
the close-knit nature of college campuses has helped accelerate the
adoption of Piazza. "

*grumble*

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 02:07:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

On the name front, did they fail to check the spelling of "piazza"
before naming it or something?

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 02:11:15 2011 Host: 18.208.1.244
From: 3 3 3 5 5 101 19213 <cesium>

My initial thought was that maybe piazza.com was taken or something
and they only just managed to obtain it.

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jul  5 02:18:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Looks like piazza.com's been registered to them for a while. I
presume they went with Piazzza at first because they thought it'd be
a cool brand name or something and then realized they were being
silly.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 03:19:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Had an unexpectedly good time watching the fireworks with APO et al.
(Actually going out of town tomorrow, for those keeping track.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 03:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Mostly unrelatedly, I am more overplotted than I planned to be (but
possibly not more than I expected and probably not more than I need).
Also I have the awesomest friends.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 03:34:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 09:03:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

up

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:25:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"We knew when we chose MediaWiki over Confluence that we were
choosing a platform supported by volunteers.  Aside from the
slowness, we've been very pleased with your support."

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:25:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No one should use Confluence, as far as I can tell.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:26:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Confluence is a great platform for the "throw money at it until it works"
method

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:27:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I guess I've just never worked anywhere that threw enough money at it,
then.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:27:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or with any organization that did)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:44:45 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I've been happy with confluence, and I think we only threw
$2k at it, or whatever the list price is.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  5 10:45:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Mediawiki kind of sucks, particularly around WYSIWYG
editing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:27:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

The TSA line is _way_ smaller today

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:27:53 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"How does the number of lanes compare?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:27:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"I might even have time to opt out"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:28:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I can't see from here, but it's not backed up past the boarding-pass
point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:29:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, are you here this Friday, or in Louisiana or something?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:30:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm ib Louisiana. That's why I sent you mail about the teleconferencing
capabilities of the Learning Center

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 11:31:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"But you're clearly at an airport, so I was confused"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:01:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> ATL

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:08:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Flight attendant to unattended minor: "You know you can't get off the
plane without one of us, right?"
"I know."
"'Cause if you do I'll get fired. And I have to feed  y family."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:08:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're on an airline that still cares about unattended minors? Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:09:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Delta.
Can you get away in this day and age without caring about unattended
minors?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:10:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Remember that Oprah episode where she investigated this internet
pedophilia ring with a cute bear mascot, and reported that they had
"over 9000 penises"?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:10:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't Delta the one that keeps sending kids the wrong cities?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:11:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Maybe that's why they started caring

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 12:13:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

They almost did that to my rabbit. I was so pissed.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:22:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ah, the south. Guy in line at Wendy's: "Y'all have sweet tea?"

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:23:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Cleveland Circle. <stum>

sweet tea is srs bsns, geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:23:33 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "SPORT DEATH, JESSIE H LOWELL, SPORT DEATH!" - laura47 <jessiehl>

I have to wonder if the guy's a transplant (or maybe he just doesn't
trust fast food places).  He didn't take it for granted that *any*
tea would be sweet tea.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:24:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's true. And that _still_ trips me up in the north.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:25:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

Would southerners usually ask about "tea" rather than "sweet tea"?  (I
lived in FL and VA, so apparently not southern enough to know.)

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:25:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Museum of Fine Arts. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i wouldn't trust a fast food chain (especially wendy's) to have sweet
tea.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:25:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

yeah, at some point sweet tea becomes the default/unmarked tea.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:25:56 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

and if you want unsweetened tea, you have to call it that.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:26:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

If you're going to ask, you might as well qualify it.
The interesting question is what you get when just order "tea".

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:26:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "The stars say twinkle twinkle.  The stars are out to screw you." - clyde <jessiehl>

Yeah, my dad always gets weird looks from servers at restaurants, who
are confused at the concept of unsweet tea.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:26:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: i'm tired of daggers drawn <jessiehl>

Sometimes they screw up and give him sweet anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:27:04 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "SPORT DEATH, JESSIE H LOWELL, SPORT DEATH!" - laura47 <jessiehl>

This has been going on for more than 20 years.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:28:24 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Sweet tea must be even more entrenched in Georgia than I
imagined 

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:28:57 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

~All the restaurants in ATL (airport, not city) serve sweet tea, last
time i was aware.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:29:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "Hey!  I got through an entire night without hitting on you!" - tajones <jessiehl>

It varies based on the specific place.  I don't remember which
restaurants tended to have servers who were confused about unsweet
tea.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:30:33 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

in central NC, ~everywhere has both and aren't particularly
confused by it.  When I was in college, "tea" was starting to become
unsweetened in the more "urban" areas.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:30:44 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hipsters

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 15:51:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Places are always confused when I ask for water without ice. They
invariably dump ice in when they refill my cup.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:10:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I can't understand anyone's thick Southern accents anymore :-(

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:13:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm. This flight was delayed until 4:12 -- oh hey the screen changed.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:15:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <mherdeg>

Interesting, the weather looks OK.

Class: geofft Instance: ATL
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:16:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

They just deplaned and got a new crew I think?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:19:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also I think if you list me as referring you to Virgin Mobile, we both
get a free month

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:19:20 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: O R'LYEH? IA R'LYEH -cesium <ismith>

*makes a note*

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:20:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Virgin Mobile
mobile virgins

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  5 16:34:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> LFT

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:27:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

My mom has this textbook titled "Web 2.0 Security: Defending Ajax,
RIA, and SOA". I'm a little scared.

Class: geofft Instance: 3down
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:31:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"IS&T will be performing firewall maintenance between midnight and 7am
Sunday July 10th.  Email and other services that are hosted in W92
will experience intermittent connectivity."

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:46:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... stupid question, where's the nearest office supplies store? I'm
blanking on this.

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:46:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I know there's a Staples in H^2 but that seems wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:47:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "i bet materials scientists know how to make very strong spitballs" - nhk <pbaranay>

The Coop?

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:47:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:47:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

options include:
- university stationary
- the coop at either kendal or w20

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:47:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

also copyteque

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:47:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I've never been to University Stationery, but that's a good point.

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:48:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

I highly reccomend it.
Its one of those small stores that also gives you
warm-fuzzies when you partronize it.

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Tue Jul  5 19:53:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm sure there's a good reason the TV is plugged into the guitar amp.

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Tue Jul  5 20:00:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Because *it* goes to eleven."

Class: geofft Instance: debian.else
Time: Tue Jul  5 20:30:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://wiki.debian.org/LetUbuntuReleaseForUs

Class: geofft Instance: debian.else
Time: Tue Jul  5 20:33:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That is an incredibly horrible idea

Class: geofft Instance: debian.else
Time: Tue Jul  5 20:40:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://wiki.debian.org/DevelopersIgnorant

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Jul  5 20:52:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

HEY EVERYONE YOU SHOULD RUN STTY OLCUC

Class: geofft Instance: debian.else
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:06:27 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==.  That idea hurts my soul.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.else
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:49:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wow, we don't have nearly enough crazy ideas in the Trac wiki

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:58:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Wait, Kim Kardashian's dad was an OJ Simpson lawyer? Did not know.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's, like, the only reason she's famous

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Cardassian

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Well, before the sex tape"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"I thought it was because she was hot and otherwise pointless, like
Paris Hilton"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, that.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Calrissian?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 21:59:56 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The more formal variant is 'Can God design a Turing machine that can' &c. -geofft <ismith>

I thought ==geofft/page 3 model or whatever theyb call it in the UK.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:01:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... Why was I installing this VM again?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:01:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

To debug the schroot/pam issues Ben reported on natty cluster?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:02:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

If that was it, I wouldn't have installed a text-mode Debian box.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:03:28 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

The Kardashian's have a reality show that is somewhat less
vapid than the average reality show. THey run a fashion
boutique in LA and another in Miami.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:04:23 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Generally speaking just being hot is insufficient to get
you Paris Hilton-style attention

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:05:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, hey, there's a -cluster machine 10 feet from me.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:05:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was wondering - do we need to run a pam stack at all to enter the
chroot?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:05:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm pretty sure we want to initgroups(), but maybe we sudo for that.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:06:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

We already have to jump through hoops to get the user in the groups in
the chroot ...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:09:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm. I think it was for testing that the -dkms transition worked on
Debian

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue Jul  5 22:10:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "Just let Ubuntu test it for us"

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:30:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wonder what I want to use as an authn infrastructure once I leave
MIT.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:30:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Getting keytabs is cool, but at some point I will want to stop having
VMs and personal machines on .mit.edu.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:31:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I think the two most compelling options are
1) set up a Kerberos realm, and either get my friends on it or peer
with friends who have realms
2) SSL server and client certs

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:31:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hynes Convention Center. The destination of this train is: Boston College. <stum>

i hear some people use passwords

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:31:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

What are these "passwords" you speak of?

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:32:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Also, I really, really, really suck at remembering passwords. SSO so
I don't have to give everything the same password is awful compelling)

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:32:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Aw, what a cute little straight crusader you are! - ismith <wings>

i,i "You keep using that work.  I do not believe I know what that
means."

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Tue Jul  5 23:32:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Could you imagine a DMV of reproduction? - ismith <wings>

Gah, word*

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Wed Jul  6 00:43:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds awesome! Well, okay, actually, what I really want is a
book on CSRF, XSS, sql injection, and so forth, but...

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Wed Jul  6 00:44:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I think it talks about XSS and not CSRF. I can check.

Class: geofft Instance: home.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 00:44:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is there any significant difference between "XSS" and "HTML
injection" (modulo the fact that "HTML injection" isn't a term
anybody uses, AFAIK)?

Class: geofft Instance: home
Time: Wed Jul  6 00:45:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Aw. CSRF is *awesome*, though.

Class: geofft Instance: 3down
Time: Wed Jul  6 00:50:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I... what?

"Are they bringing in the brick-layers and patching up the holes?"

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:00:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... I think my battery died?

Class: geofft Instance: home.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:00:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Martin shrugs. The monster strolls away. After a while, Martin says, “Don’t challenge him.”> <xavid>

You can theroretically also have XSS direct in Javascript when user
input is put unescaped into a constant in a script block.  I don't
think it happens as much.

Class: geofft Instance: home.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:00:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, I suppose.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:04:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... did the people I circled on Google+ get synced to my phone?

Class: geofft Instance: apartments
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:12:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Stark: the 1BR is way more expensive than I expected. But not
actually unreasonable if you're a couple, which is what the last
renters were. It's just probably about twice as much as you'd hope it
was for a single person.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:30:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's this for?

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:31:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also... "If you want an account on DEHNERTS.COM, let me know."

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:36:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I just requested imap/tyger.mit.edu (which I don't really feel bad
doing, since I have good excuses to want to be playing around with
MIT infrastructure even if this is for my personal mail) and realized
that this isn't really sustainable once that machine stops being
.mit.edu, and it should probably stop being .mit.edu shortly after I'm
not a student.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:36:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

That said, arguably I asked for it so I could connect to it from
other Athena machines, so.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:37:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah. I guess for IMAP, "ssh keys" doesn't really work.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:37:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There's always "use a passworcd manager".

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:45:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, the Tinfoil Security post is funny, but mostly because of the
name, and so far I haven't been identifying companies or people.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:56:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also I just leave off any mentions of the company. Looks like
whartoniteseekscodemonkey just uses [redacted]...

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:56:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also, I... lack sufficient snark for this.
http://www.alwaysontechnologies.com/cloudbrowse/

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 01:57:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"The 1980s called. They wanted their slow Internet access via a crappy
phone connection to a central server back, and they also asked what a
'cloud' is."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul  6 02:03:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

bah. there were three more things I wanted to do today but I am really
sleepy and they will total take me at least an hour
-> sleep and I'll do them in the morning

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 02:09:27 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

<3 http://www.alwaysontechnologies.com/cloudbrowse/

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders
Time: Wed Jul  6 02:09:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Love the little Twitter & Facebook icons peeking out from the top bar.
"Soon."

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 02:14:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is it intentional that your headings grow on mouse-over?

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 02:15:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

No, I just picked some random style from the website

Class: geofft Instance: stark
Time: Wed Jul  6 03:21:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

Some time ago, when people were talking on -c gender,
you said that you would like other people
to hold you to a standard of masculinity. I think the problem here
is that whoever does so has their own conception of masculinity,
which may clash drasticly with your own. For example, I expect
you would be offended or perhaps just nonplussed if someone were
to insult your manhood because you didn't sleep with random women.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders.d.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 08:57:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Hey, that's ripped from my user style sheet :(

Class: geofft Instance: rockstarcoders.d.d
Time: Wed Jul  6 10:25:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

:-P I realized that after I set the title on the post, honest.

Class: geofft Instance: stark
Time: Wed Jul  6 10:28:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Honestly, I don't actually think so. I think for the less extreme
versions of that sort of thing (like "you don't have the confidence
to ask someone out", where I also have been intentionally not
dating), I'm actually vaguely saddened, and for the extreme versions
you propose, I'd rather enter a conversation about why being a slut
doesn't define manhood any more than being a stud defines womanhood.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul  6 11:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Are we human
Or are we hacker?
My code's compiling
My wrists now hurt
And I'm on the Stack Overflow looking for the answer
Are we human
Or are we hacker?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Jul  6 11:50:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

1. stop sending us e-mails
2. argh entitled nontechnical professors

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:40:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Downforeveryoneorjustme?

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:41:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain Reaction <kchen>

Works for me with HTTPS.  I believe it always appears down with HTTP.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:41:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Oh, oops. Thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:43:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Anyway, what I was really trying to get at is... the SIPB office is
36% bigger than Reddit's old office. "How come we can't build things
as cool as the Reddit team can"

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:43:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I do not eat living food. <ternus>

Define "cool"

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:43:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

We can start with "able to handle as many users".

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:43:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Lack of economic incentives?

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:44:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

upvote.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:44:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I do not drink living drinks. <ternus>

I bet scripts gets as many users as, say, 2006-era reddit.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:46:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't actually know how many users we get.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:50:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

People having classes and therefore getting hosed makes it hard for
them to own things.
Also not everyone in SIPB builds computer systems; we're also a social
organization.

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:51:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Sure, but Reddit has somewhere between one and four engineers

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:51:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Admittedly that's more than Athena has"

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:51:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

see the first clause

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:51:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: neither a subwoofer nor a father. YET! <afarrell>

er, scentence

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:53:31 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A pickaxe is worth a thousand words. <eichin>

yeah, people presumably didn't *leave* the reddit office as much :-)

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 14:54:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://static.reddit.com/blog/new_office/sketchup.png

Class: geofft Instance: floorplans
Time: Wed Jul  6 15:00:33 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But no Zoroastrians.  We checked.  There just aren't any. -- ghudson on the inauguration speech <eichin>

and really they were all working on *one* project.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Jul  6 17:12:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(stark)
> One of the functions of journals and conferences, even when everyone
> in the field knows the best work anyway, is to satisfy deans, presidents,
> and other outsiders to the department that it's doing good work.  For
> example, CS is unusual in that the principal venues are conferences;
> some CS academics outside of the top CS departments report that they
> take care to put most of their work in journals (after it goes to a
> conference) because their deans don't really believe them that the
> conferences are the most prestigious venues.

My dad (an EE department head) says his dean, a chemical engineer,
recently got on his case about some person in a CSish field who had
just been publishing in conferences and was highly confused.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Jul  6 17:14:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Of course, I'm just a smiley person overall, in addition to angsty and tortured" - wings <pbaranay>

Conversely, some CS departments don't seem to understand that Science
and Nature, for example, are very prestigious. (Apparently some folks
at Purdue told my CSHL mentor, when he was applying there, "why
aren't you published in any conferences?")

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Jul  6 17:15:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hah!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Jul  6 17:41:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... Wait, Scott James Remnant isn't developing Upstart any more?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Jul  6 17:41:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Or so clames Lennart Poettering...)

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Wed Jul  6 18:58:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... huh. "'12" doesn't mean "frosh"

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Wed Jul  6 18:58:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

When did that happen?

Class: geofft Instance: apartments
Time: Wed Jul  6 20:50:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I may also be looking for 1-2 people to fill this apartment (in East
Cambridge) until December, which is to say, $apartmentmate is moving
out and I am likely to be moving out then, so you can of course stay
but you will need to find more apartmentmates then. Ping me if you're
interested.

($apartmentmate is an MIT '01 who's finishing up seminary and
training to be a missionary pilot. She's cool.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Wed Jul  6 21:21:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

........ Did you just misspell _your own company's name_???

Class: geofft Instance: quota
Time: Wed Jul  6 21:59:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Is there a spec for not crapping in $XDG_CACHE_HOME too much?

Class: geofft Instance: quota
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:11:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I suspect the "spec" is "go delete stuff randomly".

Class: geofft Instance: quota
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:13:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

That's a bit unfortunate. Mostly, I just want a way to know if I'm
being unreasonable if I put lots of data there

Class: geofft Instance: quota
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:23:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Meh? I think the answer to this usually is to pick a random cache
size limit in-app or something.

Class: geofft Instance: quota
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:25:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

"Said, of course, after spending a few minutes source-diving Chrome
to see if it had one."

Class: geofft Instance: authn Opcode: stark
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:38:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Government Center. Change here for the Blue Line. Doors will open on the left. <stum>

i must say, despite my mocking you for not using passwords, being able
to rely on Kerberos is hella convenient.

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Wed Jul  6 22:41:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It really is, and I only have...well, one server now...in my realm.
And it doesn't peer with anyone else (yet).

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:21:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Started working on a tool as described (to conveniently maintain
patches against another library project in your released source tree,
but keep the project itself in your work / build tree, so that
updating every embedded copy of a library doesn't suck).

I have a README and no code <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:27:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

So many of my plots are at that stage...

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:30:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

tyger:/home/geofft/src geofft$ ls | wc -l
26

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:33:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Other things in here:
- crazy alternative git porcelain
- clone of new asa DB
- coLinux
- a debian/ subdirectory with lots of source packages
- 14 upstream projects for reference
- 4 SIPB project for reference/regular work
- pam_zwrite
- dm-ntfsclone

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:34:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...pam_zwrite?

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:37:36 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Apparently I'm not supposed to talk about it, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:43:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, this was inspired by Ben going "how do I debug the PAM stack???"

Class: geofft Instance: else.davidben.dpl.q.stark
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:43:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

and me realizing this was a good opportunity to a) convince myself I
could write PAM modules b) document the process until c) I got
distracted and bored

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul  7 00:46:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> sleeeep

Class: geofft Instance: authn
Time: Thu Jul  7 01:58:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, wanna figure out how to peer?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 09:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... okay, what's wrong here?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 09:57:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Is Athena or SIPB AFS flaking, or are we on Reddit, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 09:57:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Athena AFS looks fine from here

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 09:59:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Look at the sorry server access logs

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 10:02:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Oh right, we keep those.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 10:02:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... where?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul  7 10:02:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> -c scripts

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul  7 11:00:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Today is backwards day, it seems. Deal with recent zephyrs, then deal
with e-mails from just now, then deal with e-mails from overnight,
then reply to old zephyrs, then brush my teeth.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Thu Jul  7 12:58:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Subject: IT&S: DISABLED ACCOUNTS OF MIT TO MAKE BENEFIT GLORIOUS
NATION OF KAZAKHSTAN

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Thu Jul  7 12:59:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

VERY NICE, HIGH FIVE

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:13:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

driver's license

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:13:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

woo

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:13:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

and two cars honking at me for being overcautious

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:14:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

++

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:15:27 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I have web feet -- but they're useless without a local internet connection <eichin>

"welcome to boston" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:33:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

scary.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:53:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

> First, are you eligible? To join Zipcar, you must:
> 1. Be at least 21 years old
> 2. Have a valid driver's license for at least one year
:-( :-( :-(

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:54:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if my permit (which I had when over 21, so it was marked
as a driver's license with fine print on the back saying "must be with
licensed driver" instead of with big letters saying permit) counts

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:54:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I think they look it up and if the DMV says that you've had your
license for over a year, it's legit

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 17:55:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I guess there's no harm in applying and seeing if it works

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:03:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Huh.
"Jump start. If you perform a jump start to the Zipcar vehicle, you
must inform Zipcar immediately or upon returning the vehicle at the
end of your reservation. You are fully responsible for any damage that
may result from the improper use of jumper cables or other tools. It
is strictly forbidden to provide a jump start to any vehicle other
than a Zipcar vehicle."

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:02:46 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"oops"

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:05:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 427f277 Blackfin: bf537-stamp: update AD714x resources <nelhage>

Huh. I have never used a zipcar to jump another vehicle, but I've
certainly considered doing so.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:06:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 40642f9 [EBTABLES]: Verify that ebt_entries have zero ->distinguisher. <nelhage>

I am tempted to say "fuck you, I know how to jump a car"

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:05:20 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i uh, tried to jump a car and failed. not because i didn't know how.
because the starter in the jumpee was dead.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:05:25 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

so i returned the zipcar

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:08:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm not actually sure I know how. I can certainly read car manuals.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:09:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 025341d V4L/DVB (6755): Avoid troubles when using multiple devices <nelhage>

Yeah, it's not that hard, it's just that the consequences of majorly
fucking up can include "you set shit on fire" and/or "you seriously
shock someone"

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:09:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Also, jumping can sometimes fry badly designed engine
management systems.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Thu Jul  7 18:09:21 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You're my interface to the hearing world right now. -danjared <ismith>

You have a smartphone, which is close enough.  It's practically
color-coded.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul  8 04:33:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

tyger:~/owl geofft$ objcopy --info >/dev/null
BFD: BFD (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.20.1-system.20100303 assertion
fail ../../bfd/plugin.c:436
objcopy: plugin: Bad value

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul  8 04:35:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jason S Gross <jgross>

It works fine for me (on linerva)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul  8 11:22:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yeah, this is on squeeze

Class: geofft Instance: haxx0rz
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:21:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'm amused that all the open proxy scanners against mitnet are looking
to access springerlink.com

Class: geofft Instance: haxx0rz
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:22:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Springer are a bunch of dicks, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: haxx0rz
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:22:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is it Yellow Sale time already?

Class: geofft Instance: haxx0rz
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:24:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yeah, the fact that stolen university login credentials are most often
used for library access than spamming or hax0ring is quite telling.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:44:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

vinagre turned into remmina, or remmina is different, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  8 12:48:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

In my Copious Spare Time, I really want to get back to hacking on XVM.
I never did nearly as much as I wanted of it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:16:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ugh. Gnash is like Flash, but buggier

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:16:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... what?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:16:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

GNU's freeeeeeee reimplementation

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I clicked on a link on -c dvp and now by browser's hung.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:15:58 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

gnash describes what you do with your teeth when you try it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:17:55 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The hit list will not be blancheable. -pbaranay <ismith>

geofft: better out of context.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:18:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... LexisNexis has an open source clustering technology thing?
http://hpccsystems.com/

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:22:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I like that the the Gnash page is "Hey look, it runs homestarrunner, what
else could you possibly want to do with Flash on the internet in 2011?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:23:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(I assume Moonlight is equally useless?)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:31:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Gnash is just actionscript 2, isn't it? There's another project
called Lightspark (I think) that does AS3 ("modern flash").

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 13:33:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(My understanding is that moonlight is actually somewhat legitimate,
although it doesn't have the DRM bits so Netflix doesn't work. But
Microsoft gave them test suites to work against, codecs, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: got-item.d
Time: Fri Jul  8 15:56:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(stark) mq:
"In case you^Yre wondering, we^Yre pumped to have you join the
Zipsterhood. But while we were processing your application, we hit a
little speed bump. Don^Yt worry. All we need to do now is check your
driving record, but it^Ys been hard to find using the information you
gave us."

Class: geofft Instance: got-item.d
Time: Fri Jul  8 15:56:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

What happened to your single quotes there?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:07:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Does Epiphany not support Etherpad?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:08:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Here's a nickel, buy Firefox"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:08:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, seems to be working now.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:08:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Does the nickel get me security support for Firefox 4?"

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:08:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:29:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"GNU Awk (Gawk) is one of those workhorse utilities that usually
doesn't make news. The 4.0.0 release, however, deserves a look.
Announced on June 30th, the latest iteration of Gawk brings the first
Gawk debugger, a sandbox mode for running less trusted scripts,
revised internals, a number of changes to regular expressions, and
IPv6 compatibility."

...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:30:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

"[...] IPv6 compatibility."

...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:33:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Go read "TCP/IP Internetworking with 'gawk'" and be sad

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.misread
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:34:26 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: We will both die because of your negligence. <asedeno>

Go read "TCP/IP Internetworking with 'gawk'" and be sed

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.misread
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:34:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++, that would have been better

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.misread
Time: Fri Jul  8 16:35:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

*gawks*

Class: geofft Instance: acron.sipb.q
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:13:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

...
3       - Materials Science and Engineering (MIT department)
4       - Architecture (MIT department)
420     - Marijuana (also 4:20)
5       - Chemistry (MIT department)
6       - Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (MIT department)
...

Class: geofft Instance: acron.sipb.q
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:13:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"One of these things is not like the others"

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:22:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... did we accidentally make solving the decentralized file system
problem a _subproblem_?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:22:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

hmmm?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Files and folders and ACLs are easy centralized, but harder
decentralized. Especially if you have to think about things like
conflicts and merges and redundancy to people being off the network.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

There's probably a more elegant solution that doesn't involve solving
this and doesn't imply a global decentralized FS.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:48 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

"This task gates on world peace."

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:23:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

We can think about that in the centralized case first.
"And then we can layer over dropbox"

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:24:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

auuugh, layering messaging over an FS is doomed. We could layer over
Amazon SQS, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:24:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2f9889a Revert "hso: Fix crashes on close." <nelhage>

SQS is the *wrong* answer

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:25:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 85ba273 [PATCH] ide: remove redundant hwgroup->handler checks from ide-taskfile.c <nelhage>

SQS is *aggressively* eventually consistent.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:25:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: febda3e ppc64: Alignment handler fixes - from Mike Corrigan <nelhage>

Aggressive on the eventual, not the consistent.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:25:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 387d890 [PATCH] lne390 bogus casts <nelhage>

If you want anything remotely resembling a realtime message bus, punt
so hard.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:25:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

SNS might be better, though

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:26:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though I think it's fairly limited in terms of what it can deliver to

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:27:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, good to know. I suggested to abelay that he could shave his
HA-git-in-dropbox yak by using SQS as an ersatz lock service.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:27:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(I couldn't find a stupid website that actually implemented a
scalable lock service, whether on AWS or elsewhere)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:29:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ZooKeeper!

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:29:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I'm not sure how scalable it is.)

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:30:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

That's a web app, not a cloud service. I want someone to run this for
me.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:30:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:30:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"web app" is... not that generic of a term, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:31:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:31:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Oh, does it not even use HTTP? "Even worse"

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:32:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did you just call ZooKeeper a web app?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 17:32:49 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: One nation, under surveillance... <eichin>

it's a tomcat thing, and tomcat-koolaid says
those are "webapps" (but they're really "managed jars" and have
nothing to do with web)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul  8 19:30:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Huh, you can get "No such file or directory" on /proc/pid/exe of a
zombie. I guess that makes sense -- the process exiting releases the
reference on the executable image.

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:04:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

You call ZooKeeper a webapp? I call it a TCP server...

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:04:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Also, isn't it part of Hadoop?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:06:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Wow, Hardy is a hilarious OS.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:07:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Er, not Hardy. Dapper.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:07:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Yes, I know I'm wrong)
It calls disks hda instead of sda, and it doesn't reset the uptime
counter and so starts with ... the host's uptime? in dmesg.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:31:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I bet I don't want to be logged in to Launchpad as geofft-lp-test.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:34:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Whatever happened to Hvirt?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:34:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"gdb dropped out"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:50:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

broder, you didn't, like, unsub from -c xvm or something, did you?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 21:51:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not unsubbed, but I actively ignore it

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 22:01:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Apparently I get more broders on my class.

xvm / personal / geofft  21:59  (You keep using that word. I do not
    Where's the invirtibuilder source, anyway? I don't see a useful git
    repo with the word "build" in its name.
xvm / personal / oremanj  21:59  (Joshua Oreman)
    I... don't know. I've never had to touch it.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 22:05:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(nvm, found it)

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 22:18:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You want to be harrassing gdb, not me

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 22:21:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

We should, like, put up shiny web pages about the invirtibuilder.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 22:27:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Whoaaa I have so many partial projects here.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:19:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Did I create this VM with a swap partition and no... real partition?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:20:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Psh, who needs real partitions? Just run store on a tmpfs and suspend
to disk instead of shutting down.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:21:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

er, s/run store/store everything/. I think I was waffling between
"run everything" and "store everything" or something.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:22:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, there's something between 40 kb and 400 kb, but zeros for the
first 40 kb...

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:22:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wonder if that's just "aeons ago, when I created this VM, XVM didn't
zero disks"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:25:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Huh, I was working on _this_ VM as recently as May 20?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:26:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... oh, this was the 6.857 VM. heh.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:33:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I suppose a backup of /home suffices, and I can nuke this VM

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:40:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/irc/

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:44:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

[0168] daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Jeff Arnold)  linerva  09/25/06 11:32 (18 lines)
Subject: MIT's nameservers have been sucking
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:32:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold@MIT.EDU>
To: linerva@MIT.EDU, scripts@MIT.EDU

As I mentioned yesterday, 18.72.0.3 went down yesterday evening, and
today, 18.70.0.160 started misbehaving (unlike 18.71.0.151, it has
randomly started taking more than a half a second to respond to some
DNS queries).

For several reasons, we really should be running local caching
nameservers on scripts.mit.edu and linerva.mit.edu.  I have made this
change on scripts.mit.edu in order to restore stability to the server.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:44:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"So is that why we run local caching nameservers everywhere now"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:44:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

...  Everyone should run local caching nameservers.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:46:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

In the general case, it’s not clear to me that it would be a win for
everyone to use local caching nameservers talking directly to the
root servers, vs. everyone using their ISP’s nameservers directly. 
And it’s not easy to configure local caching nameservers to talk to
your ISP’s nameservers.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:47:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Why is it hard to configure local caching nameservers to
point at your ISP?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:47:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Right, I'd be happier with all the cluster machines running local
caching nameservers if they had the MIT nameservers as forwarders

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:47:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

tibbetts: Because you have to reconfigure them every time you get a
new DHCP lease.

(I’m talking about the average home user here, not an MIT server with
a static IP.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:48:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I guess I was imagining your OS vendor would fix it up to
DTRT with DHCP, in pony world.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:48:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Well, yeah, Linux distros are only very recently starting to work on
that.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:48:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I think it's mostly because IBTSOCS.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:49:44 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Debian has some glue for getting your forwarders from your
dhcp config. (And has had for years, although I think you have to change a
symlink somewhere to configure it.)  I can only presume that it's in ubuntu
as well.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:50:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

... and why is it so bad to talk directly to the root
and not get MITM'd by whatever network you happen to be talking to?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:51:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Sometimes I want to be MITM'd?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:51:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The root servers don’t want to talk directly to four billion computers?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:52:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Like, if I'm behind a captive portal, I'd rather see the thing they
want to redirect me to via DNS and sign in, rather than nothing at
all. (If I'm behind MIT's captive portal, I'd rather register than see
only mit.edu pages.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:52:17 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

You still get MITM'd by whatever network you're in; they just have to
try a bit harder.  Captive portals can be a pain.  Anycast has been
the only way to keep a root server up for a while now, but is forcing
EDNS-or-TCP choices on people with old hardware...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:52:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(And if I'm behind MIT's captive portal, I can't ven reach the root
name serves.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:53:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

The root servers were good for it last time I checked.

(Yes, I'm aware of the captive portal problem; I'm implicitly (now
explicitly) ignoring it.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:53:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"well stop doing so, it's important"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:53:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Also, your ISP’s servers are closer to you, and querying them doesn’t
require multiple round trips, so they’ll be able to satisfy common
queries with much lower latency.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:54:41 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Also, let's say you'd like to map the Internet.  It's a lot easier to
map 10^5 popular recursive nameservers than to map every client IP.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:55:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I don't particularly want to cooperate with the people
who want to map the internet :->

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:55:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Even if it’s Akamai, who wants to give you the closest server in
their CDN network?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:56:11 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Oh, @i[especially] if it's them!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:56:19 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Yeah, I know 'em too well to trust 'em.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:56:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Karl, your approach is sounding a lot like cutting off your own RFC to
spite your face.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:56:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Although I was kind of under the impression that akamai
was clever enough to figure out which CDN to route me to even if I'm not in
their database.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:57:49 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

When I have to deal with captive portals, I flip the
"make bind use the dhcp nameservers as forwarders" switch.  I don't have to
do it very often.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jul  8 23:59:25 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

That's complicated.  It can make guesses, like using closest-netblock
match.  It can handle OpenDNS cases.  But those are much more
expensive than the simple ISP-run caching recursive resolver case.
On the other hand, a world with everyone running their own resolver
means everyone can be directed individually; a big entity with only
one DNS server (e.g., DoD, OpenDNS) can only be steered as a unit.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:01:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

It's true that AVES gets easier if everyone resolves on their own.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eugeneng/research/aves/

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:08:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Augh the code the code

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:08:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

def notLockerOwner(user, locker):
    """
    notLockerOwner(user, locker) returns false if and only if user
administers locker.

    If the user does not own the locker, returns the string reason for
    the failure.
    """

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:09:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Why isn't this function called, like, isLockerOwner.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:10:41 2011 Host: kurohyou.thok.org
From: Be Seeing You... <eichin>

because strings are true, and it's overloading the return status?
because it's not an exceptional case, so they weren't comfortable
  throwing an exception with detail?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:10:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because I never rewrote that code to be sane

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:11:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The correct replacement would be 'user in invirt.authz.expandOwner(locker)'

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Sat Jul  9 00:39:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Whoaaa. servers.csail.mit.edu. This VM is _old_

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 01:47:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... cajun-electric-power-coop.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 01:48:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

My god, chickens on treadmills?!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 01:48:42 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Looks like flaming-ball-of-plasma.mit.edu is available.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:05:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So... what is this AVES thing? Their overview and "how it works"
pages don't really explain.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:08:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

You have k IP addresses and n servers with DNS names. When someone
looks up a DNS name, you assign an IP address to it for a certain
length of time, and return that time as the TTL of the DNS record.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:09:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Basically you have to bet that not more than k of the servers will be
used in a period as long as a TTL)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:11:07 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

And then, what, you have a daemon listening on each IP that does
forwarding to the servers somehow based on whatever it's currently
supposed to be handling?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:12:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Or a NAT or something.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:12:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:13:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Put each real server on 10.x, and port-forward from the appropriate
public IP

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:35:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ugh website.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:36:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... also the CSS is broken? noooo

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:37:40 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Website, not /forms/, right?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:37:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:37:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Great, not the part I care about, then."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:40:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Also ugh we are so out of quota.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:41:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ask for a bump? Move everything DB-related to asa-db?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:41:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I'll do the former, but I don't want to break the latter

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:45:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"let's see how many e-mails to accounts I can generate before the next
business day"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:45:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Ooh, if I'm feeling ambitious we'll write up the locker namespace
proposal.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:50:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

ldots. soooo many ldots.
http://web.mit.edu/asa/styles/openafs/

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:51:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

This word "easiest". I do not believe it means what you think it means.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:51:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nice zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:52:21 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

So, in the real world, everyone who maintains a Web site will ftp to
their host and upload their html pages.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:52:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Cool, there's a style guide?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:53:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Huh, so there is.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:53:40 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, "Use WinSCP" would be my first suggestion for a Windows user,
not "Install OpenAFS".

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 02:53:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Or maybe "learn to use nano on a dialup", depending on the user.)

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 04:14:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wish screen worked across sudo.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul  9 04:53:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jul  9 08:20:31 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

1.4.0? ick!

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 10:38:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It does if you turn on multiuser mode?

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 10:38:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Yes, it does with multiuser mode. geofft and I use that a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:06:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Er, not quite...? You can su/sudo to the user, enable multiuser, add
yourself to the acl, exit, and "screen -r user/". That's different
from "sudo screen -r"

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:06:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Really I want SSH-style sudo -t

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:09:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Or does it work once screen is suid root?

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:12:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Why do you need -t? Doesn't the root-owned screen get to share the same
tty?

Class: geofft Instance: else.n-c
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:26:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

FIGHT UNREASONABLE ANNOYANCE WITH MORE DIFFERENT UNREASONABLE
ANNOYANCE

Class: geofft Instance: else.n-c
Time: Sat Jul  9 13:27:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I am happy to meet your clone. <ternus>

NONSENSICAL STATEMENT INVOLVING PLANKTON

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 14:24:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, voice quality is... sucking a little

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 14:24:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Trying to talk with a room full of people in the Reading Room)

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:16:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

ttants:
Reading Room
Reading Rainbow

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:24:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

Is LeVar Burton on google+ yet?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:27:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

TIL that he also played Kunta Kinte
from Roots.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:28:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

and also not blind in real life.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:29:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

you...didn't know these before?

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:29:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

I mean, presumably I knew that he
wasn't blind when I was a kid, but
I'd since forgotten.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:30:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

"also, the VISOR was a hair barrette"

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:30:13 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: *opens mouth* *sees 'Shut up Ian'* *closes mouth* -wings <ismith>

It's Reading Rainbow, not Reading Braillebow.

Class: geofft Instance: google+
Time: Sat Jul  9 16:31:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

"also, he has a sense of humor"
http://twitter.com/#!/levarburton/status/541379696533505

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 20:26:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I should understand taxes more...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 20:26:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

do you know VBA?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 20:27:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

You can probably trade tax knowledge for VBA knowledge

though then you'll need some asprin.

Class: geofft Instance: dr.horrible
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:37:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

The National Enquirer at this checkout stand has its headline "Who's
Gay, and Who's Not"

Class: geofft Instance: dr.horrible
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:38:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: dr.horrible
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:38:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Life imitates art.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:40:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

What would it take to upstream zmhm?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:40:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(er, "get an upstreamable zmhm")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 22:41:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

zmhm?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:08:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I still haven't found a personal domain name I like

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:08:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

geoff@t.com?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:08:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

t.com might be difficult to get...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:09:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

tea.com?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:09:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, reference implementation of panache <afarrell>

geoff@t-party.com ?

Class: geofft Instance: else.zephyr
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:10:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Zephyr Multi-realm Host Manager. A hack from Numenor that let you
specify which realm you wanted to talk to by setting environment
variables

Class: geofft Instance: else.domains
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:28:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Arguably the name "geofft" is contended enough that I should pick
another one.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:34:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm.
1. Debian has separate debian-announce (community-facing),
debian-devel (active discussion), and debian-devel-announce
(developer-facing) lists. I wonder if it would be useful to clarify
whether sipb-announce is community-facing or SIPB-facing, and have
e.g. a sipb-office-announce so that you don't have to be subbed to
sipb-office to get actually-interesting mail

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:35:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

2. They have a #debian-private IRC channel? I wonder if -c
sipb-private (zcrypted, of course) would be useful.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Jul  9 23:36:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(Theirs is so that there's a place on IRC to discuss things on
debian-private@)

Class: geofft Instance: dr.horrible
Time: Sun Jul 10 04:47:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

[stark] Heh, my immediate connection to that is actually "Piazza, New
York Catcher" ("are you straight or are you gay?")

Class: geofft Instance: dr.horrible
Time: Sun Jul 10 04:47:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

But yeah, ==Waseem

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm. I kind of want to port things to systemd, for the lulz, but
- Mitch never finished getting Zephyr in Fedora upstream
- I'm not really sure systemd (yet?) supports doing clever things with
  FUSE filesystems (and doing nonclever things is boring)

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:21:17 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

1) Scripts builds Zephyr. Yay.
2) Define 'clever things'

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:23:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

You can set, e.g., /mit to mount on boot, but that's a little boring.
Ideally it should mount on first access.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:24:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

This involves systemd opening /dev/fuse on behalf of /mit _and_
mounting that directory, and then spawning pyhesiodfs and passing the
fd off once it gets a request. This isn't hard, because it does
exactly that with sockets, but /dev/fuse is a little different

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:29:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3e554df [IPV4]: Fix GRE tunnel device init. <nelhage>

Huh, you want it to be a dummy FUSE client itself, until the handoff?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:30:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

You have a better solution?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:30:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6d3ddc8 ASoC: Split DAPM power checks from sequencing of power changes <nelhage>

No, I'm just pondering how this would work.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:30:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8191e1f UBIFS: do not update min_idx_lebs in stafs <nelhage>

How much of a handshake is there at fuse-filesystem startup?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:31:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't know; I haven't touched it recently enough. I'm looking

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:31:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I guess the better solution would be a new kernel interface for
systemd to wait on accesses into a certain filesystem, so it would
work for non-FUSE filesystems too -- network mounts and AFS and
external drives and so forth

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:31:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 27c0c8e atmel_serial might lose modem status change <nelhage>

IIRC fusermount does some vaguely insane things

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:32:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f83a275 mm: account for MAP_SHARED mappings using VM_MAYSHARE and not VM_SHARED in hugetlbfs <nelhage>

Like, when you mount an fs unprivileged, you fork fusermount(), which
is setuid so it can do the actual mount() call, and then it passes
you the fuse fd back over a unixy socket that you handed it across
the fork()

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:32:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0bf607c firewire: don't panic on invalid AR request buffer <nelhage>

I'd be worried about things like mount options

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:33:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0e0ab5f Staging: hv: rename VmbusChannelInterface.h to vmbus_channel_interface.h <nelhage>

I mean, what you want is an automounter, right?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:33:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Basically, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:34:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Right, the better solution would be a new kernel interface for
systemd to wait on accesses into a certain filesystem, so it can then
go and mount the filesystem and say "all right, now go access it".
This does in fact boil down to an automounter

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:34:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

And it's not really impossible that "new kernel interface" = "what
autofs already uses"

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:34:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0dd3256 [PATCH] ocfs2: le*_add_cpu conversion <nelhage>

Well, except that autofs is in-kernel, right?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I thought there's some userspace component to it?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:35:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Does the kernel really speak Hesiod? (And parse /etc/hesiod.conf?)

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:35:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4187377 [POWERPC] Add export for mpc52xx_set_psc_clkdiv <nelhage>

Hm, true.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:36:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

shining-armor:~/web_scripts geofft$ ps 1318
  PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
 1318 ?        Ssl    0:01 automount --pid-file /var/run/autofs.pid

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:39:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, and systemd has a src/automount.c

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:40:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wonder if this is, like, upstream automount combined into the
systemd katamari. It would make sense. Like cron.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:42:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

REQUIREMENTS:
        Linux kernel >= 2.6.30 (with devtmpfs, cgroups; optional but
strongly recommended: autofs4, ipv6)

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:42:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hmmmmm
        When systemd-hostnamed is used it is strongly recommended to
        install nss-myhostname to ensure that in a world of
        dynamically changing hostnames the hostname stays resolveable
        under all circumstances. In fact, systemd-hostnamed will warn
        if nss-myhostname is not installed. Packagers are encouraged
to
        add a dependency on nss-myhostname to the package that
        includes systemd-hostnamed.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Sun Jul 10 12:42:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I wonder if nss-myhostname helps Debathena...?

Class: geofft Instance: irc.mit.edu
Time: Sun Jul 10 14:07:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm, apparently running a public IRC server also gets you scanned very
quickly...

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Sun Jul 10 14:20:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Commands whose syntax I still haven't memorized, partial list: rsync

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Sun Jul 10 14:29:59 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: World Without Man <phurst>

it always annoys me when i do, like rsync foo phurst@jecht.mit.edu and then i
have a file named 'phurst@jecht.mit.edu' in my homedir.

Class: geofft Instance: tempting-bad-ideas
Time: Sun Jul 10 14:53:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

An HTTP proxy that adds my certs to each request

Class: geofft Instance: tempting-bad-ideas
Time: Sun Jul 10 15:01:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

So you can use certs from untrusted terminals?

Class: geofft Instance: tempting-bad-ideas
Time: Sun Jul 10 15:03:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

No, so I can use certs from trusted terminals that don't support
certs. (Like Epiphany or Android Browser.)

Class: geofft Instance: tempting-bad-ideas
Time: Sun Jul 10 15:04:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

ah.

Class: geofft Instance: scala
Time: Sun Jul 10 15:28:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

There's a Scala design pattern called "Pimp My Library"? Really??

Class: geofft Instance: scala
Time: Sun Jul 10 15:28:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=179766
http://scala.sygneca.com/patterns/pimp-my-library

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Jul 10 16:46:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

"Enter tuples.  A tuple is just a small number of values -- a single
value, a pair of values, a triplet of values, that sort of thing. 
You can tell that tuples were named by mathematicians because the
name only makes sense when you look at the cases you hardly ever use
(quadruple, quintuple, sextuple, etc.)."

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:23:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Someone who knows more about flights than I do...

For various irrelevant reasons, I have a flight from ATL to BOS on
Tuesday. I'm not in ATL, I'm in LFT. The flight I have cost less than
Delta's change fee ($150); also, flights from LFT to BOS are cheaper
than flights from LFT to ATL.

Is there a better option for me than just buying a new LFT->BOS flight
and forgetting about the old one?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(The only way to get from LFT to BOS via Delta is through ATL)

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:23:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(... hm, I guess that's not true, there's also MEM, which is actually
the cheaper flight, never mind.)

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:24:15 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

From a similar past experience the answer was to buy a new ticket and
hope in the event of delays that you can refund/change the ATL-BOS
one for free

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:27:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

right, ==austein

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:27:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

You're basically supposed to check in and everything on the old
flight, so that it looks like you're going to take it, and then if
there's a delay or something otherwise wrong where they let you
reschedule it for free, you take advantage of that.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:31:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Which is super hardcore! I usually just check whether there's a travel
waiver posted on the airline's Web site, and maaaaybe check in on the
flight status on the day of travel.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:31:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

There's nothing to be gained by calling up the airline and being "yo,
your change fee is dumb"?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:37:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Science Park. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

buy a refundable ticket next time?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:38:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

That kind of defeats the point of it being cheaper, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:41:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

So, uh, what happens if I have two tickets under the same name on the
same trip?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:41:44 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Dunno about Delta. United is known to run a daemon nightly that looks
for double bookings and arbitrarily picks and cancels one.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:42:05 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Which, I read, is actually a pretty cool way to get an award ticket
cancelled for free without paying a mileage redeposit fee (haven't
tried it).

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:43:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Bummer that Delta's cheapest refundable one-way fares ATL-BOS (M)
hover around $400, while their cheapest one-way fares are way less
($120) -- that tells you that it's worth buying the ticket three
times over before you would ever both getting a refundable fare.

Of course the pricing they offer for their cheapest coach tickets
already factors in the fact that a certain fraction of booked
passengers won't show up.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:49:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Hm. It looks like the flight I already have booked isn't being sold
any more, so I can't see if they do the United trick.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 17:59:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Okay, if it's not actually likely that I can call up Delta and say
"Hey, I want to buy an LFT->ATL->BOS flight, but I already own an
ATL->BOS ticket, just charge me the remainder of the price" and get
them to do anything productive, I'll buy a new ticket.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:03:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm fairly certain it no longer works that way (don't they charge you
like $25 just to talk to not-delta.com?)

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:04:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Right, that too.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:04:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, you can look at the weather and try to buy a ticket you know
won't fly in the weather, and them mod it.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:04:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:05:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

They'll rewrite your ticket for you if your plans are requred to change
because of weather or equipment delays. You should be able to predict some
weather delays with higher probability than equipment delays. So predict one,
book the ticket, hope it fails, and merge the itineraries.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:09:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I just booked a new flight. "meh"

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:16:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Weird. I have to show up in person with my credit card, and can't
check in online.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:17:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(I wonder if that's because I tried twice before realizing I only had
$36 balance. s/credit/debit/, fine.)

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:17:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Maybe you're just a terrorist"

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:19:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Amusingly enough, I had that happen thanks to a broken browser once:
Safari auto-completed the first name field after I typed 'J', but
didn't trigger an Input method, so it didn't get sent over XMLRPC or
something, and I ended up with just "J. Reed" on the ticket.  And
apparently not having a full first name (so you can't be verified against
the no fly list) automatically prevents you from checking in online, or
at a kiosk

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Jul 10 18:22:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Fenway. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i don't think the browser was broken in this case :)

Class: geofft Instance: irc.mit.edu
Time: Sun Jul 10 21:52:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

scanned by?

Class: geofft Instance: irc.mit.edu
Time: Sun Jul 10 22:08:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ITSS? skript kiddiez?

Class: geofft Instance: irc.mit.edu
Time: Sun Jul 10 22:30:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

2011-07-09 11:29:56-0400 [IRCUser,9,189.98.23.22] Unhandled Error
        exceptions.NotImplementedError: ('HOOBIE', '', ['joobie',
'doobie', 'doo!'])

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:01:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

michelle branch master origin/master
michelle checkout master
michelle commit -a
michelle push

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:01:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

michelle ma belle

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:02:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

michelle: 'ma' is not a michelle command. See 'michelle --help'.

Did you mean this?
        am

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:02:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"these are trees that go together well"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:06:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

Why do people go into postdocs when waiting to get an academic job
instead of going into industry for a few years?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:07:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

i,i
| Why do people go into academia?
FTFY

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:12:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

(And then proceed to complain about being a postdoc sucking?)
I see three plausible reasons:
1) Being in industry hurts you by inherently looking worse on your CV.
2) Being a postdoc helps you by letting you publish more than a
research position in industry, which helps your CV.
3) Industry jobs are also hard to find, so people are in postdocs
waiting on industry as much as waiting on academia (because they don't
want to take an industry job they're overqualified for).

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:12:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

I don't really believe any of those...

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:14:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

4) There *used* to be more and safer jobs in academia, and the
habits and advice persist even when they're no longer true or useful.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:15:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

Also, going into industry seems like a much more longer term
commitment than getting a postdoc does, if you are looking to get a
professorship at some point and therefore don't want to be stuck doing
anything for too long. Also, having a postdoc keeps you more in touch
with academia, if you plan on staying in it

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:18:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You keep using that word. I do not believe it means what you think it means. <geofft>

... huh. I'd feel comfortable leaving an industry job at my current
education level after a year or two. Is that not true at the doctoral
level, or are postdocs just _really_ short?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:20:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

new zsig

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:23:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

No, post docs are usually for a couple years. I've always perceived
industry jobs as being more long term, but this may be entirely
unfounded

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:24:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

Why don't you believe those?  
If you have something that is truly a *research position* in industry
that allows you to publish, that is essentially a postdoc.  If you
don't, the publication issue is a big one if you eventually want to go
into academia.  
In theoretical CS (my field), some people go direct to faculty
positions and some people take postdocs--there's no specific pattern.
I get the impression that the difference is due to two reasons:
either people want to beef up their publication history, and/or the
current academic job market is cold and they want to wait until it
warms a bit.  (It's quite variable.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:24:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"heck, I could join a startup and watch it fail in that time"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:26:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

> If you have something that is truly a *research position* in
> industry that allows you to publish, that is essentially a postdoc. 

"essentially" being a key word. I hear a lot of "wahhh postdocs are
underpaid and overworked with little promise of a good academic job
and allow you no freedom and nobody ells you this wahhhh".

If postdoc positions in academia don't actually suck, that answers the
question too.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:28:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

#3 would surprise me if true, but would be interesting to know. My
impression is they're precursors just to faculty positions. (And
specifically, the industry job market sucking as much as the academia
one for Ph.D.s would surprise me)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:28:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

1 would surprise me to (though much less) especially if you got to
publish at least a little.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:28:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

Hm, I think I disagree with the "nobody tells you this" part. At any
rate, people have always told me "you go into science for the love of
science, not for the money" which seems like a decent reason to choose
a post doc over industry, since I rather suspect industry has a lot
less science for the sake of science

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:30:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

underpaid:  probably true, considering that they have a PhD--though
they get paid better than grad students.  
overworked:  depends on where you are, if you get to do your own
research, etc.  If you're going for publications, it's self-motivated.
little promise etc.:  depends.  If you're at MIT, you'll do ok.
Others, not sure.  
no freedom:  depends (see "overworked").  And, uh, since when does
industry grant you more freedom?
nobody tells you this:  you seem to have picked up on it by your MEng
year....

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:30:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Microcontrollers - things you can use to make robots go vroom vroom." - lexrj <pbaranay>

I feel like "you go into science for the love of science, not for the
money" is just an excuse people use to not pay junior faculty more.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:32:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

So, non-theory CS seems to be a place where there is as much science
in industry as academia, if not more. (Feel free to
s/science/engineering/ but I think it's a little thin here.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:34:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Why are you considering getting a Ph.D.?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:37:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

I strongly caution against computer science academia.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:40:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

"but then you can be like eric grimson!"

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:42:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] The "/" semantics are WEIRD, IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:48:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

jbarnold: Why?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:51:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

In short, many reasons.  I asked why you're considering getting a
Ph.D. to try to determine which reasons might be most relevant to you.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:55:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Off the top of my head:
- You can convince people who think a Ph.D. is a sign of merit to
  listen to you.
- You can't teach, at least not in the same way / to the same extent,
  in industry.
- There's a risk that we're in a large-scale bubble.
- A lot of interesting people seem to be academics. (The Debian
  Project Leader is a postdoc, for instance, in a lab that does
  interesting work about open source.) Of course, a lot of interesting
  people seem to be in industry, too, but that means I shouldn't rule
  out either.
- Of the interesting people in industry, it's not uncommon to have
  Ph.D.s.
- Faculty positions afford way more free time, both on paper (pretty
  sure you get more than 10 days paid vacation per year) and in
  practice (you're not tied to the current company goal), to
  investigate new things, or even just different things.
- The funding game is different, and seemingly different in a good
  way, for instance if you get tenure.
- The end game when you become too experienced to be allowed to code
  any more ends with you doing research and teaching instead of
  becoming part of management.

Class: geofft Instance: else.zephyr
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:53:52 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the multirealm host manager has been done at least thrice over

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:56:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       - The end game when you become too experienced to be allowed to code
         any more ends with you doing research and teaching instead of
         becoming part of management.

My dad is at Google and not a manager. I think he does coding.
(Though he does have a PhD, I guess.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:56:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Also, for the Ph.D. itself instead of just academia,
- It seems easier to get one when young (not necessarily requiring
  immediately, but a few years out of college as opposed to decades),
  and it opens way more options than it closes.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:57:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       - Faculty positions afford way more free time, both on paper (pretty
         sure you get more than 10 days paid vacation per year) 

Is that really typical?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:58:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

That sounds low.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sun Jul 10 23:58:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

For industry? Interesting

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:03:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: dreadful accidents, regrettable misunderstandings, hugely disproportionate retaliations <eichin>

I'll note that if you want more vacation, just go work in europe :-)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:04:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Wait a minute, my `sniper scope centered on my head' sense is tingling! <eichin>

I'm pretty senior non-management, and I think I
get 15 days/year (though I'd have to look and make sure that's all
base and not bonuses.)  Laura's a researcher at an Institute in sweden
and *started* at 6 weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:06:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I didn't even know you @i(could) kill chocolate ice-cream! <eichin>

ie. US vacation plans just suck.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:07:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

My brief thoughts in response are:
(1) In my experience, few important people particularly care whether
or not someone has a Ph.D. in computer science.
(2) Teaching is one of the few valid reasons to enter academia.
(3) I don't agree that faculty positions necessarily afford more
freedom than industry.
(4) I think that the "funding game" in academia is worse than the
situation in industry.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:08:29 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Scientific test number 1: poke it. <eichin>

(that said, academia can enable more travel/work abroad
opportunities than is usual for industry.  Nokia is an exception there.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:08:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

> it opens way more options than it closes
Except the part where you squander ~seven years in your twenties.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:08:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Also,
- I feel like I haven't really gotten along with random industry
  policies/practices. "At the very least, I can't start work at 9 AM"
- I _really_ haven't liked random industry NDAs and noncompetes, and
  feel like academia makes it easier to do more public work and not
  have to fight to get in a position where I can do so.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:09:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

The funding game in academia is a circus.  
The university will pay your salary, but you need research grants in
order to do anything (attend conferences, hire grad students, etc.).
Thus, you spend a lot of time on grant proposals, constantly.  Now,
sometimes industry gets grants too, but I get the feeling you don't
have to deal such things quite as much

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:10:21 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: And they all moved away from me on the bench... <eichin>

the paperwork you have to do to *do* that public work, though...
(that's one place where europe is worse; the joke is that EU funded
projects aren't about funding research, they're about supporting the
european pulp and paper industry :-)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:10:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Seven years is a problem. I'm hesitant to start doing a Ph.D. if I
think it'll take that long. But I could as easily "squander" my time
in industry, no?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:10:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

What don't you like about NDAs?  In my experience, most people stress
about NDAs more than they should.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:10:45 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Eleanor Velasco Thornton <eichin>

stanford will still kick you out in 4, right?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:11:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

At least in physics, the major difference between working at a
university versus at a national lab (which I can vaguely try to
parallel to academia vs. industry, although I admit it is a stretch)
seems to be that universities give you a lot more freedom over what
you research, and you have much more of an opportunity to do random
cool things than you do a national lab, where you are expected to work
towards a specific end goal

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:11:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

eichin: No.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:12:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Sam will kill him if he tries anything. <eichin>

aw, that was one of the few bastions of sanity left in CS phd programs :-)
(you didn't quite have to be *done* in 4 years, but you had to have
some real progress)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:12:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

The "big four" schools all tend to advertise 5 years these days,
although in practice that's close to the best case scenario and the
average numbers are significantly higher (and they decline to release
them publicly for this reason).

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:15:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Ah, the d key is one of my favorites!" - rax <pbaranay>

What are the "big four" in CS?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I'm perfectly happy stalling on going into a Ph.D. program
unless/until I'm confident (both in terms of knowing what I'll be
doing and in terms of fixing personal work habits/ethic) that it'll
be done in relatively short bounded time.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:16:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

(It's shorter for theory than for systems.  Really all of my computer
science industry vs. academia advice is fairly systems targeted.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:16:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, CMU

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:17:52 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It doesn't take all kinds, we just have all kinds. <eichin>

my industry workday is - well, pretty random, but that's
primarily grandfathered from being at a startup early ("we don't care
what hours you work, as long as it's all of them" :-) and having a
boss with a sleep disorder that's worse about it than I am.

(I mostly bring it up because my work mostly supports a very academic 
 r&d team, though we have more abds and grad-dropouts than actual phds :-)
 so I have a lot of coworkers who made both choices)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:18:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

also, re: free time, hahahaha.  
It's a culture thing, really, and depends on what type of job you have
in either industry or academia.  Many industry jobs aren't absurd
hours (mine wasn't).  And some academics--particularly those trying
for tenure or those at the upper echelons--push very hard.  "My
tenured, middle-aged advisor keeps trying to schedule meetings with me
on weekends"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:18:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Five to seven years in your twenties is a long time.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:19:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

> What don't you like about NDAs?

"I still don't like yours."

More seriously, it bothers me that, like, there is so much I could
have run across at VMware that it impacts what I could do in working
(either just free software hacking, or research) with, say, KVM. I'm
happy in retrospect that what I was working on was vague machine
learning stuff, and I didn't actually do anything that involved
spending any time with VMware's codebase.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:20:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

And a large part of this was that I was working with two CSAIL
professors and a postdoc (and another intern), and we knew we were
taking the project back to academia once our internships were over,
and so we actively avoided doing anything that the NDA would clamp
down on once we left VMWare territory. Which kind of sucked, honestly,
because there's so much we could have done if we could have recompiled
our own magical ESX

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:22:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

> Five to seven years in your twenties is a long time.

It's not clear to me that learning things, writing papers, making
contacts, working on interesting projects, etc. and then punting after
even four years unconditionally is more of a waste of time than four years
in some generic industry position (to be differentiated from, like,
four years founding the most awesome startup ever).

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:23:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

And it's certainly not clear to me that five to seven years actually
getting a Ph.D. is more of a waste of time than five to seven years
founding an awesome startup and selling it. You'd still be looking
for something new, and you'd still vaguely risk that the most recent
thing you'd spent serious time on is three to seven years old and you
need to catch up.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:24:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

(And in one case, you end up with a shiny piece of paper on your
wall; in the other, you end up with several shiny pieces of paper in
your bank. Let's ignore the relative merits of those two for now)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:26:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

Something that I considered when I was deciding if I wanted to pursue
a PhD, though, was the issue of "Do I really want to wait till I'm in
my late 20s before I can start being a real person/actually have a
decent income?"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:26:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

I think that in industry you can (1) learn more, (2) achieve more
freedom, and (3) gain more useful credentials than in academia.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:27:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

I think the lack of making Real Money is a fairly legitimate concern,
so it is largely weighing how much you'd be enjoying what you do in
grad school versus how much you'd value the extra money you otherwise
could be making

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:28:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

Although I did see a decent number of grad students that were married,
and even some that had kids, which sort of makes it seem like it is
possible to have a real life while a student

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:31:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Is there a good way to back up "few important people particularly care
whether or not someone has a Ph.D. in computer science" with data,
other than getting my own experience?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:32:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

"real person" can mean many things.  I agree that it occurs along more
axes in industry than in academia, but one can still be a real person
in academia.
"freedom" is a related concept, and depends on which axes matter to
you.  
"learn more" and "gain useful credentials":  learn *what*, and useful
to whom/for what?  A PhD is a useful credential; it all depends on
what you want.  And I'm learning plenty as a grad student; I'm just
learning different things than I did in industry.  

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:38:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

geofft: I don't have any data to provide there.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:39:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Alright, I need to get back to work.  Good luck with your decision.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:40:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

For instance, I think a year or two ago, I looked at internships at
MSR, and they required you to be currently in a Ph.D. program, I
think. I feel like I'm justified when I suspect I would have a hard
time getting a job there -- or at least the same kind of job -- with
just a bachelor's or MEng.

(In other words, I'm curious what you mean by "important people")

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:40:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

All right, thanks for your input.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:45:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Neither VMware nor MS seems to mind my 11AM arrival times.
Admittedly, I'm an intern; it might be looked at more askance if I
wasn't. (Oh, and Google doesn't seem to mind my dad's schedule, which
is probably similar.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 11 00:48:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 11 01:11:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

bah, insufficiently sleepy, will try again shortly.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 07:33:30 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

<stark> I would mostly agree with Jeff. The only two
justifications I support for getting a PhD in CS are (1) I
want to teach (2) Being in grad school is the most
intresting thing I cam imagine myself doing in the next 10
years.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 07:36:38 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

With keyfootnote to (1) that you need to remember you won't
be teaching MIT undergrads, you'll be teaching much less
enthused and less capable undergrads at ~any institution
you get a teaching job.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:09:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

(starking) The "spending seven years of your twenties" thing is
something that does definitely bother me. But I strongly object to the
idea that an "ordinary" industry job does very much for you, long
term.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:38:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

What do you mean by an "ordinary" industry job?  I think that there
are good positions (that "do much for you") at both established tech
companies like Google and startups.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:41:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

This is one place where I must admit ignorance, which is advancement
in establish tech companies. I mostly know how the startup game works.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:42:28 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "I think obama would win, because obama can fly!" - clyde <jessiehl>

It depends a lot on the company.  Established companies aren't a
monolith.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:42:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:43:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

And, I feel that it's very hard to get a feeling about that sort of
thing before you join the company.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:43:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: (Formerly) Queen of the Twinkies <jessiehl>

You can get some sense of it during interviews, sometimes.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 08:43:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

I have to run to work, cyall.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 09:00:43 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Getting a shitty industry job is probably a worse idea than
getting a good PhD. THe solution to that is to get a good
industry job, not to choose a PhD because it seems safer.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 09:01:19 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

If you are awesome in your 20s, I recommend startups
primarily because the advancement/responsibility/etc is
more straightforward.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 09:03:04 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

At an IBM, "correct" advancement for a highly skilled
technical person requires having your skill recognized by
someone in a position of responsibility with some poliitcal
skill, and then getting slotted into their "this is someone
important, we should nurture the hell out of them"
pipeline. Monica Giffen (who I bet none of you know) is
doing that at Raytheon, but it's not easy. dmaze was doing
it at IBM last I checked, but he also got acquired into IBM
from a startup he did in his 20s (Datapower)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 11 09:25:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The promise of the first hero, Ella, has similar effects; some of her descendants have been proto-heroes, with the heroic nature as their destined route to godhood.> <xavid>

[stark] I have confidence that you could find a job in industry that
works with random hours if you try (mine does), and places I've worked
have always started at 15 days vacation, with more if you stick around
a few years.  Also, you're making enough more than academia that
taking unpaid vacation wouldn't be too bad, though I guess that
depends some on your manager.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:16:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

There seems to be an assumption that it's easy or at least possible
to get an awesome industry job, and impossible to get an awesome
academia job. Why? MIT's got to hire _someone_, after all. :) And if
not MIT, there are at least as many CMUs and Stanfords as there are
Googles and IBMs, no? I'm not going for University of Podunksville,
but nor am I going for Initrode.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:18:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Also, I'm a bit confused what the end game here is. I suspect being a
60-year-old professor, even if it takes me until age 58 to get to one
of the few universities that are fun, is better than either a
60-year-old manager promoted three levels out of actual software
development with 20-year-olds actually running the show, or a
60-year-old working in a cube next to 20-year-olds who are also
actually running the show.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:19:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

(And, see above, it seems more possible to trade some time now for
having a Ph.D. in a few decades than trading some time in a few
decades.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:20:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

A single IBM or Google hires hundreds of top computer scientists (and
thousands of reasonable computer scientists).  
A single MIT or CMU hires only a few CS professors per year.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:20:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Poor ways to win the zone cell challenge, partial list: claim you're
going to take it, forget that you ever said so, and have Ops
synchronize the .k5logins in a few months.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:21:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:21:55 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

oooh

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:23:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

Speaking personally, I am much more confident in my ability to get a
job at IBM, MSR, or Google than I am in my ability to get a job at a
top-ranked university.  (I do not expect that MIT would hire me.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:23:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

Also, schools basically never hire computer scientists over the age
of 40 from other schools

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:27:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I was ... a bit confused when looking at the .k5logins, and this is my
best reconstruction of what happened.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:27:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Who is the person this happened to?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:27:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"I know, my mom is a computer scientist over the age of 40."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:28:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

You can look as well as I can, I don't like embarrassing people on my
class.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:29:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Honestly, I wouldn't remember who said they'd take it and didn't actually,
even if I looked, but whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:30:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I am super confused... I can't recall wanting to take it though it
would be fun?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:31:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

There appears to be a lizdenys/root in the ACL for seiko, casio, and
timex. I guess I can ask ops how you got there.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:31:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

(Option 2: you started working for ops and forgot you did so.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:32:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I suppose you should keep me on one of the servers because I hear
that's how it started. But... I am confused!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:32:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"That's not winning the zone cell challenge"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:33:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Maybe Liz just social-engineered her way into getting root on all three
servers. Clearly that's a valid method of winning.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:33:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "The only way to win is not to play"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:34:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:34:18 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(It's a third of winning the zone cell challenge.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:38:01 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

This is an interesting conversation.  I've never really worried about
my career endgame.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:38:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

I think one of the appeals of academia is, if you make it, the career
endgame is much more pleasant then that of industry.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:38:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

It's one of the big reasons my parents are always pushing me in this
direction.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:42:35 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "I hear there are CS-related jobs in academia that aren't tenure
track"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:46:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Says the guy working on a Ph.D. in something completely not CS.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:46:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I could always do like my local church's organist, get a Ph.D. in
evolutionary biology, teach in high school, and write a requiem and
have it sung at Carnegie Hall.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:47:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Or get an S.B. in Urban Studies, an M.A. in Psychology, and work for
IS&T.   Just sayin'...

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:48:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Or get a PhD in biology then work for accounts?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:51:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Your job involves making cluster maps and figuring out stupid users,
your degrees are totally relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:52:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Quite true.  I've been tempted to make an awesome IT-at-MIT map with
ArcGIS for a while now.

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:57:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

i,i you win some, you lose some

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:58:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

eh?

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:59:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

In the last hour, we appear to have hired two people and lost one

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:59:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Better than losing 2 and hiring 1

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 10:59:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Both of those hires were actually a month ago, but they didn't start
until now

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:00:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Would it be weird for me to show up at the new Athena guy's desk and
teach him how to use barnowl?

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:01:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Griggs Street/Long Avenue. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

"you should probably type :sub message white-magic"

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:01:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"As long as you don't explain about unclasses"

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:02:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

==stum "amb is there, clearly you should be there too"

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:02:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"But only half? of the current developer is there"

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:02:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"If you hold off a few days, we'll probably have a new locker version"

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:02:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

or s/current/previous/

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Mon Jul 11 11:03:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

*sigh* Did you just e-mail me reminding me to check in online after
telling me that I can't check in online?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:17:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I really hate that aptitude got worse.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:17:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, who has a degree in biology?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:18:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

boojum

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:18:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, Jon, I thought you were still working on the M.A.?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:19:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have all the credits, it's merely a matter of writing my final paper in
the Spring.  "What could possibly go wrong"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:20:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Also I really need to get VMs working on tyger.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:20:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Wait, you're going to be working on a PhD? What in?

Class: geofft Instance: stuck-in-my-head
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:31:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Mack Wilberg's arrangement of "Be Still My Soul". With a
VIIb chord on "Soul".

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Mon Jul 11 12:55:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

ternus / work / ternus  12:52  (We Earth people do not do that.)
    "I think it would be good to touch base live.  Do you have a few minutes right
    now?"
    "Actually, I don't, I have a meeting with a client in ten minutes."
    "Great, so I can call now?"
axs / status / axs  12:54  (Alessondra Springmann)
    not quite.  I'd need another four hours :)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:48:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

PXE confuses me so much

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:49:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Can I boot iPXE (undionly.kpxe) via KVM? Do I need to set up a TFTP
server to convince it to do so?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:51:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"When the chainloaded iPXE starts up, it will issue a fresh DHCP
request and boot whatever the DHCP server hands out. The DHCP server
is currently set up to hand out the iPXE image, which means that you
will be stuck in an infinite loop: PXE will load iPXE which will load
iPXE which will load iPXE which will load iPXE…"

Yo dawg, we heard you like iPXE, so we put iPXE on your DHCP server so
you could chainload iPXE from a chainloaded iPXE.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:52:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

iPXE comes in lots of formats. You probably can't boot undionly.kpxe
over KVM unless you set up a TFTP server/etc, but you can certainly
boot ipxe.iso.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:53:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

ipxe.iso might be good enough for now.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:57:16 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, cool: you can burn iPXE into the ROM of the NIC.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:58:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Oh, that's the perfect way to do it on KVM.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:58:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(use the -option-rom option)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:58:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-option-rom undionly.kpxe doesn't work. Should I do something else?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:58:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Yeah, you need to compile bin/VVVVDDDD.rom where VVVVDDDD are the PCI
vendor/device IDs of the NIC that KVM is emulating.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 13:59:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"oh"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 14:17:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

AUGHHHH I hate that the best development environment for Debathena is
Windows so that I can _hit Ctrl-Alt-F1 at VNC_ and have it work

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 11 14:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Things that don't work, partial list: "ssh barnowl@zulu"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 14:40:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Okay, why is my VM not booting

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.install.docs.q
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:09:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

1.5) you will need to setup a static IP and fix /etc/resolv.conf,
before using wget (the following place has an accessible copy:)
http://numenor.mit.edu/~tabbott/www/debconf-selections

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.install.docs.q
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:10:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

> accessible
You keep using that... oh, forget it.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.doxory
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:15:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

x) read "A Game of Thrones"
y) watch "Game of Thrones"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.doxory
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:16:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

z) (x) and (y)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.doxory
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:17:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0367a8d [ARM] 3266/1: S3C2400 - adds macro S3C24XX <nelhage>

(z)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.doxory
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:17:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You all use version control, right?  Lie to me and nod. <ismith>

w) Neither, but watch zephyr be excited about both.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:38:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Does dpkg not modify a non-conffile that the admin has changed if the
package hasn't changed it (but if the package is nonetheless being
upgraded)?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:41:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Policy 6.6.4 implies it does an unconditional overwrite.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 11 15:42:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

But conffiles aren't mentioned at all, so I'm not sure if that's
authoritative.

Class: geofft Instance: twisted
Time: Mon Jul 11 16:43:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Still confuses me.

Class: geofft Instance: twisted
Time: Mon Jul 11 16:43:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

What in particular?

Class: geofft Instance: twisted
Time: Mon Jul 11 16:44:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"everything"

Class: geofft Instance: twisted
Time: Mon Jul 11 16:44:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I'm trying to make sense of twisted/words/tap.py:makeService() at the
moment

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:49:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

PXE still confuses me

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:50:27 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which part?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:50:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2009-September/013232.html

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:53:10 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

*blink* what?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:54:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

None of those words make any sense!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:55:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

gpxelinux.0 PXELINUX gPXE cmd.c32 gpxecmd.c32 PXE PXE SPAM AND PXE
SPAM PXE AND SPAM PXE PXE PXEPXPEPXXPEPXXPEPXPXPE

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:56:36 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, so poking around the mail archives, gPXE (iPXE now-a-days?) is the
actual ROM image, and pxelinux is the standard syslinux-based loader
that you get served; gpxelinux is gPXE+pxelinux bundled?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:57:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

gPXE and iPXE are forks; all the developers but one abandoned gPXE to
start iPXE.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:58:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

geofft: I sympathize.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 17:59:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Help me, Oreman Kenobi!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:00:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

OKay, more seriously, I think you said something to the effect of
"PXELINUX can communicate IP addresses magically to iPXE", but I don't
see it in zlogs and I'm sucking at finding a reference. Did I make
this up, or?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:00:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I thought was Ben.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:02:18 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft: What's the end-goal of the plot?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:02:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Wait, you have PXELINUX loading the Linux-kernel version of iPXE?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:03:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I don't know, am I supposed to? I'll eventually have mumble enterprise
PXE loading some iPXE thing.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:03:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

The end goal is that you get an IP address from DHCP from the network
card's built-in PXE stack, and keep that IP address as far as possible
and don't re-DHCP because our DHCP infrastructure sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:04:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

OK, you want the network card's built-in PXE stack to load iPXE
undionly.kkpxe, with an embedded script that does "set use-cached 1"
before DHCP.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:05:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

(Where "as far as possible" = into iPXE, when we download the stage1
iPXE script from the website, which prompts for a real IP address. At
that point it's fine to re-DHCP if you say you want the installed
system to use a dynamic address instead of a static one)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:05:51 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why is the filename kkpxe? I only see kpxe everyhwere on the site.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:05:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

... okay that was not obvious from
http://ipxe.org/cmd/dhcp
Also what's kkpxe? The most I've found is "more different kpxe"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:06:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

kpxe keeps the UNDI driver loaded. kkpxe keeps the whole PXE stack
loaded.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:06:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Main relevant difference, apart from working around bugs, is that you
need the latter for continuity-of-DHCP.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:11:04 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So, NIC PXE stack -> Enterprise PXE server thingy -> Debathena menu
entry -> iPXE -> pxelinux with Debathena menu?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:11:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'd skip the final pxelinux.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:11:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Have iPXE prompt for an IP and other choices and directly load the
kernel/initrd, passing relevant command-line parameters.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:12:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(pxelinux doesn't have a similar facility for taking parameters or
doing variable substitutions in config files)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:31:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Right, NIC -> MIT PXE -> Debathena menu iPXE, enter prompts ->
appropriate Debian/Ubuntu kernel as preseed

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:32:42 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How does fit in with the plot to have mirrors host bootable stuff?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:35:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"It doesn't"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:35:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Other than, Debathena menu iPXE, enter prompts -> super secret menu
option that takes you to Mirrors iPXE

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 18:44:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I want a mud that's accessible via PXE.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:08:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

>> PXELINUX ... IP addresses ... to iPXE
>I thought that was Ben
What?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:09:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

About Oreman Kenobi... *you* are the SIPB equivalent of Obi-wan

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:10:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Ben Kaduki!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:12:22 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Ka-ducky Ben?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:13:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

Geoff:  as in, kaduki theater?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:19:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

... Seriously, the only documentation of this on the web is Josh
telling some dude on a mailing list the same thing two months ago? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 19:38:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Aww, does iPXE only support one DNS server? That's kind of
unfortunate.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 20:06:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

iPXE 1.0.0+ -- Open Source Network Boot Firmware -- http://ipxe.org       
Features: VLAN HTTP iSCSI DNS TFTP AoE SRP bzImage COMBOOT ELF MBOOT PXE PXEXT
iPXE> dhcp
DHCP (net0 52:54:00:12:34:56)...... ok
iPXE> chain http://debathena.mit.edu/ipxe/boot
http://debathena.mit.edu/ipxe/boot.... ok
What is your name?
geofft
Hello, geofft!
iPXE>

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 20:07:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

:-D :-D this is every bit as exciting as writing the equivalent BASIC
program was n years ago

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 20:16:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Hrum. I bet iPXE gets me no temporary filesystem...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 20:18:01 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is imgfetch close enough to what you want?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 11 20:42:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I can't, like, grep it

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:07:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Degrees of Turing award recipients for the last 10 years (I'll do
more, it's just surprisingly slow):
http://web.mit.edu/geofft/www/turing-award-degrees.html

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:08:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I should also add dates so I can add ages / times between BS and Ph.D.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:10:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why are you doing this?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:11:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also... Why's everyone do math for undergrad? :( Isn't the Turing Award CS?

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:12:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

"They all turned to the dark side later anyway, so you might be glad
to have started down that path before they did."

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:13:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

Computer *science* (rather than engineering) is quite mathematical;
it's not surprising that people who made advances/contributions worthy
of a Turing award come from a math background.  

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:14:33 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Lots of older CS people have undergrad degrees in math,
because there was no CS program when they attended
undergrad.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:15:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

also ==tibbetts, "it didn't exist until a few decades ago"

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:15:37 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I can't find a CV for Stonebraker, but I think his
undergrad from princeton is in Math.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:19:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Right, several people here are like "they got their Ph.D in 1955 and
then in 1960 computers got invented" in their bio.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:20:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Peter Naur (of Backus-Naur Form fame) is a good example.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:20:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Data! Data is always the answer.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:21:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Liskov has a BA in Math from Berkley, as another example.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:22:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Liskov was also the first woman ever to get a Ph.D. in CS.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:22:55 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I did not know that, huh.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:23:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Apparently her thesis was about playing chess, which makes
the 6.170 facination with chess moreunderstandable.

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:24:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"At the time the field of computer science was not quite reputable as
an academic discipline.  Neither Harvard nor Stanford had a computer
science department.  Nevertheless, Barbara opted to study computer
science.  She was admitted to both Harvard and Stanford.  She chose
Stanford, partly because she wanted to return to California.

"During her first day at Stanford, Barbara ran into Professor John
McCarthy.  McCarthy had previously been on the faculty at MIT, where,
along with Marvin Minsky, he helped to establish the field of
artificial intelligence (AI).  Barbara arrived at Stanford withoutany
financial support, so she wasted little time in asking McCarthy if he
could provide her with support.  Her work on language translation at
Harvard qualified her as something of an expert in AI, and McCarthy
said yes.

"While at Stanford, Barbara discovered that she actually preferred
research in computer systems to AI.  However, she was being supported
to work in the area of AI.  She decided that the prudent thing to do
was to finish a thesis in AI, and then change fields immediately.  Her
thesis, on chess end games, was a landmark in the area and is still
cited today.  By the time Barbara graduated, in 1968, Stanford had
formed a computer science department.  This meant that Barbara became
the first woman in the country (and perhaps the world) to receive a
doctorate from a computer science department."

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Mon Jul 11 22:43:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Anyway, if anyone can find what Ole-Johan Dahl did with his life and
whether he has anything beyond a high-school diploma (or not, but
definitively), that would help fill the chart.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts.ttants
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:04:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

SB email server (StreamBase)
SB email server (homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html)

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts.ttants
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:05:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Maybe Strongbad will fix my email.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts.ttants
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:06:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

The system is down! The system is down!

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts.ttants
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:07:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

*lays down some phat beats for geofft*

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts.ttants
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:07:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Yorktown Heights (DEBS) 7/11-12. NYC (QuantCongress) 7/13. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

It works, my mail server is back.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 11 23:55:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:14:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

*grumble*
What is it with me and projects with broken Debian build systems?

(Possibly s/me/SIPB/, really)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:23:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[stark] You can use "ifeq" and "goto" to implement a crude "did you
type 1? 2? 3?" type thing. I think most of anything else you'd need can
be handled by fetching a PHP script (or similar) that dynamically
writes an iPXE script for you.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:24:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

The current point of interest is figuring out the appropriate MITnet
netmask from your IP address -- see the netparams script for details.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:25:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I think, yes, the right answer is to do
read ip
chain http://debathena.mit.edu/ipxe/set-vars/${ip}

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:38:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Our sbuild is _so old_

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:38:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Admittedly, Hardy is _so old_

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:47:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I hate youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:53:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Greg Brockan?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jul 12 00:53:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"I guess it's thematically appropriate."

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:06:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

At some point I got way chiller about having nice git history and got
productive.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:06:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bd9e0b7 [PATCH] x86: cpu_init(): avoid GFP_KERNEL allocation while atomic <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:06:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

"I can always clean it up before I push"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:08:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b9a0620 linux-audit list is subscribers-only <nelhage>

Except that that's a pain in the ass and wil create more confusion
than it's worth, and you'll probably break something, so just say
fuckit and squash it all into one big commit.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:09:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Well, there's stuff I often don't want to upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:09:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

But committing them instead of keeping them around is _totally_ the
right answer

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 12 01:53:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Linerva's build system: fixed and documented.
XVM's build system: not fixed but back to where it was before they
decided it was a good idea to let me touch it, unclear about documentation.
Flight: in 5.5 hours
Me: -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 12 06:07:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-> LFT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 12 07:15:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Hm, they cancelled the MEM->BOS flight, so we'll retry this in a few
hours. Props to Delta for calling me and rebooking me

Class: geofft Instance: ist
Time: Tue Jul 12 08:09:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Hm, tomorrow seems like a bad day to play the bother-people-in-IS&T
game if they're all on a boat and I'm not. (And a worse one if
they're all on a boat and so am I.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 12 08:14:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Right, I forget iPXE is sekritly an OS kernel. And compiles like one.
:)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 12 08:20:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Sweet, use-cached works. <3

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:14:57 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Starking) Have you discovered stgit?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:23:07 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

My work paralysis used to be that if I had a feature that decomposed
into 3-6 logical commits, I wouldn't want to move on from the first
one until I was sure that it was done.  And inevitably I would find
while working on commit 4 that I had omitted something in commit 1 or
had a bug, so my history would get ugly.  git's history rewriting
allows you to amend earlier commits on a private branch, but it's a
little bit awkward to do.  stgit makes it much more natural to me.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I keep meaning to discover stgit.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:48:31 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The downside is having to train your fingers to type "stg" for some
commands and "git" for others.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:49:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I'm usually happy to commit random work I eventually mean to commit,
and rebase it later. I'm much more worried about things I don't mean
to commit.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:49:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Especially random binaries / helpers that don't belong in the repo

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:51:13 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Polymerase I polypeptide A is a human gene. <asedeno>

>The downside is having to train your fingers to type "stg" for some
> commands and "git" for others.
I have this terrible thought of using aliases to fix that. Do stgit
commands collide with git commands?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:51:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

> And it's not really impossible that "new kernel interface" = "what
> autofs already uses"

Unsurprisingly, Lennart already figured this out and this is precisely
why systemd links autofs -- so it can demand-mount filesystems on
first access.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:51:54 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Halley's Comet can be viewed orbiting Earth every seventy-six years. For the other seventy-five, it retreats to the heart of the sun, where it hibernates undisturbed. <asedeno>

Ah, yes they do.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Tue Jul 12 10:52:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d6aa4ac [BNX2]: Update version and reldate. <nelhage>

I guess now that you mention that, I do recall him mentioning that in
one of his whitepapers^Wblog posts.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 12 11:07:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

All right, this seems to be working. -> ATL

Class: geofft Instance: ist
Time: Tue Jul 12 11:59:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What?

Class: geofft Instance: ist
Time: Tue Jul 12 12:01:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

WAYRTTD?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 12 13:31:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-> BOS

Class: geofft Instance: roomq.no-context
Time: Tue Jul 12 23:54:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

geofft: "At most one of them will turn to the Dark Side."
lizdenys: *beat* "I don't want to die giving birth to twins!"

Class: geofft Instance: zone-cell
Time: Wed Jul 13 02:16:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I'm still looking forward to someone winning the zone cell challenge
by discovering a zero-day in AFS or Kerberos.

Class: geofft Instance: zone-cell
Time: Wed Jul 13 02:17:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

I guess there were a couple of kadmind vulnerabilities we haven't
necessarily patched, come to think of it...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 13 02:27:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

-> no really sleep

Class: geofft Instance: zone-cell
Time: Wed Jul 13 04:25:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought those were supposedly DoS-only.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:04:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

http://test.mitadmissions.org/images/avatars/uploads/avatar_92.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:36:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:48:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

/etc/init.d/ksplice-uptrack-me-harder

Class: geofft Instance: epiphany
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:51:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Huh, are JavaScript dialog boxes modal _across browser windows_?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:54:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

This appears to be an athena.dialup customization?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:57:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d114cd8 ALSA: cs4236: detect chip in one pass <nelhage>

It's not ours, at least.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 13 09:59:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not sure I can see Jeff being comfortable with that name.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jul 13 10:04:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the bootsectors
We can, we can, we can, we can, start up your computers
Boot grub, boot grub, boot grub all day, and come along with us
For we don't give a crap for any old app who won't give a crap for us

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jul 13 10:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jul 13 10:07:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Jul 13 10:44:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

My router seems to take 30 seconds to show up in my laptop's arp
tables. (With a static IP; DHCP just isn't working.) All this works
fine from Windows, though

Class: geofft Instance: epiphany
Time: Wed Jul 13 11:42:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

They have to be. You get very very strange problems if you make them
anything but app-modal. The problem is that the API is synchronous
and there's a lot of the web API (particularly once you through
plugins into the mix) that assumes every page is the same thread, and
so you can't really play games like this.

Class: geofft Instance: epiphany
Time: Wed Jul 13 11:45:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

The two browsers I'm aware of which try to make them tab-modal. Opera
can partially get away with it because (apparently) their Javascript
engine uses co-routines, but I'm told they just give up when plugins
come in and you can get still get weird things.

Firefox's implementation just spawns a nested event loop, so it
doesn't work at all. If you open alerts in two tabs and then dismiss
the first, the corresponding alert call won't actually return until
you dismiss the second.

Class: geofft Instance: epiphany
Time: Wed Jul 13 11:58:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Er, to clarify, the strange problems you get are that one tab's alert
call has ostesibly been dismissed (or that some other synchronous
action is fine) but, because of a chain of plugins and whatnot all
making synchronous calls, it can't actually return until you dismiss
the alert in some other random tab. Making them app-modal "solves"
this by just making the browser uninteractive during that period
where everything's broken.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:12:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: doxp: Ph.D. <geofft>

Starking, I think we have determined that ops got confused and
considered debathena-root as the zone cell admins or something, and
so it's not actually the case that Liz started the challenge and
forgot about it. (Nor did the four other people on debathena-root who
aren't on s:a -c zone)

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

new zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

which male stereotypes?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

_All of them._

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

So, you'll help Piper carry all her heavy things when she moves to
maseeh?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:49 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I know, sharkbanana totally wants in my pants. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

If we're enforcing male stereotypes, you don't get to request that we
use male pronouns; you don't know what they are.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:29:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

ok.
you and I are wrestling at Steer Roast this spring.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:30:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Not the hated but the hater has a torment that's greater. - From the Bitter Suite, Xena <wings>

I like this plan!

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:30:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

If I'm in town.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:30:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, I thought this class was for squeeing about Xena. - geofft <wings>

(The moving plan.  I will also wrestle people at Roast, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:30:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

ismith: ?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:30:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Curious, what prompted this?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:31:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

Discussion in person? -c wings and the Reddit thread it referenced? Something.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:31:32 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Hot tea is not a sexual partner. -clyde <ismith>

Male stereotype: you are used to being referred to "normally".
Having to request that specific pronouns be used is odd to you - why
wouldn't that be obvious?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:32:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Fair enough :-)

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:32:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

It might be obvious. I just like making this explicit

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:33:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: meep <catthu>

A random site on the internet suggests that you should enforce these stereotypes
on geofft:

Guys are stronger
Guys are better at sports.
Guys are players.
Guys hate reading.
Guys always have an I dont care attitude.
Guys dont get grossed out by scrapes and bruises.
Guys are tough.
Guys are thickheaded.
Guys are accosiated with the color blue.
Guys like cars.
Guys become jocks in highschool.
Guys take 2 second showers.
Guys like hats.
Guys could care less if there hair fell out.
Guys wear whatever is clean.
Guys ussually work in messy places.
Guys like Car or porn magazines.
Guys brag about intamacy.
Guys have more tickets.
Guys take too many chances.
Guys always lose all arguments against girls.
Guys are doctors.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:34:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ohhh, right, how do we make something infinite for three seconds? - jaxxson <wings>

So Geoff is definitely getting his PhD now!  Yayyyy!

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:35:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't spell 'ponies' without 'penis'! - geofft <wings>

I'm glad stereotyping has helped us decide on something we would
otherwise have to deeply consider.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:37:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: meep <catthu>

Yeah, I thought the doctor part was weird, because the same site also said girls
have better GPAs.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:37:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: meep <catthu>

I guess guys don't need very high GPAs.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:37:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'm here to kill you, not to judge you! - $vampire, Buffy <wings>

A Y chromosome is worth a .5 GPA boost

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:46:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I wish to visit the waste-reclamation units. <ternus>

 afarrell   12:29 geofft[not-gender] + which male stereotypes?
 geofft     12:29 geofft[not-gender] + _All of them._         

'sup, brah?  Yo, you going to Kyle's kegger?  Siiiiick.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:55:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

> Guys are better at sports.
Hm. I should fix that

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 12:55:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas (Please use male pronouns and enforce male stereotypes.) <geofft>

> Guys take 2 second showers.
That too

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:00:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, enough of that zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:01:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oq: "Did you change your thing back? That's gay."

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:04:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

So, the point that I was going to make is that there are many
different sets of male stereotypes and many different mainstream
conceptions of masculinity. Which one do you want?

If you'd like, I can expect you to act like Ernest Hemmingway,
though I suspect Ternus would be more likely to fit that.

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:06:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That is not what room service means on Earth. <ternus>

Thanks?

Class: geofft Instance: not-gender
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:11:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

I mean as far as the "running off to Africa" bit
not the alcholic or resentment of women bit.

Class: geofft Instance: haiku.else
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:25:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sitting in the front
seat. Kicking in the back seat.
Which seat should I take?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:28:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How does a pirate transfer files? With ARRRRRRRRRRRRSYNC

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:28:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I thought that was what happened when his ship got holed with a cannonball.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:28:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

--

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:29:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

What does a pirate say when he wakes up in jail? "ARRRRRESTED"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 13:29:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I want to speak to my lawyARRRRRRRR"

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:36:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

chkdsking.
why are there so many errors?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:36:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does GNOME auto-mount my NTFS partitions?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:37:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It doesn't on manifold or topos.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:38:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What does "Recovering orphaned file 2FB8D8~1.CDF into directory file
11660" mean? i.e., the directory with inode 11660?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:38:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

MFT entry #11660?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... oh cool, the chkdsk broke a Net Nanny DLL.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:44:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Failed to load shared library [...] (error 193: unknown error c1)"

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:52:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why can't I cd \System Volume Information?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:53:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Do I need to do this from Linux?"

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:56:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I believe you're really, really not supposed to poke around in there
at all.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well it's getting in the way of my defrag and I wanted to randomly
delete files from it

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 15:58:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jul 13 16:01:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think everything in there is deliberately marked as immobile, so.

Class: geofft Instance: else.help.gdb
Time: Wed Jul 13 18:53:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This instance is full of the yaks

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:02:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Current versions of systemd require that you customize your kernel
as well as running a non-standard init process. These are pretty
intrusive changes."

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:02:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Should I take it to mean they think that future versions of systemd
will require that you run your normal init daemon ...?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:03:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hm. It looks like Ubuntu's package installs systemd into
/bin/systemd instead of /sbin/init

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Since setgroups() requires privilege, it is not covered by
POSIX.1-2001."

Wait, why does that follow?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In all seriousness, should I move my Linux nerdy crap to another
class?

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Bah, then I'd have to subscribe to _2_, and I mostly sub here for
interesting linux stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

;)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:51 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Hot water freezes quicker than cold water. <asedeno>

It's your class.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:06:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:10:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

wow. I just realized the existance of a whole class of 
"check your privilege" puns.

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:10:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Only users with the CAP_SYS_WHITEMALE privilege may perform this
operation.

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:11:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, fine, good job.

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:11:09 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

that is hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: man.q
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:12:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

Cis/SYS is a nice touch.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 19:15:31 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Even on fedora it's /bin/systemd 
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Jun 29 03:31 /sbin/init -> ../bin/systemd

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 22:03:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, that arguably makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Wed Jul 13 22:03:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i /etc/alternatives/init

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wikiq
Time: Thu Jul 14 01:16:40 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] Oh no you didn't! [so many things could go wrong!]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 01:45:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really, really suck at sleeping

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 01:46:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Especially when sleep depped

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 01:46:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep^Wcontinuing to read the QC archive

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 02:02:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh good, my internet connections started sucking.
-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 14:48:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pythagoras re Google+: "Do not touch my circles!"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 14:51:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

+1

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 14:53:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

wasn't that Archimedes?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 14:54:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That was totally Archimedes.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 14:59:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oops. Yes

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 14 16:04:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2011/07/jesus-would-be-hufflepuff.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 14 16:31:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

oh yea, is that even a question?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jul 14 16:38:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, I bet the right term to describe groups like CopyTech and
SAO and so forth (things that aren't student groups but not
really DLCs either) is not by any means "cost centers", even though
that's the first that came to mind.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:15:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

To: Alexander W Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, Alexander W Dehnert
<adehnert@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:15:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DOUBLE ADEHNERT ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE EMAIL WHAT DOES IT MEAN

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:19:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. That one's new.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:45:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Single lens reflex (n.): when the doctor hits your knee with a mallet
and you take a picture of him

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:48:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

okay why did my system freeze up

Class: geofft Instance: scala
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:48:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I guess I should play with Lift?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:49:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't start a new shell, and I can't rm a file.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:51:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, sshfs, I bet.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:51:55 2011 Host: 192.168.1.9
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[<ffffffff8106c6da>] queue_lock+0x22/0x2d
[<ffffffff8106c835>] futex_wait_queue_me+0xb7/0xd2
[<ffffffff8106d646>] futex_wait+0x107/0x21f
[<ffffffff810d3277>] handle_pte_fault+0x352/0x954
[<ffffffff81037e0e>] cpumask_next+0x18/0x1b
[<ffffffff8106e75d>] do_futex+0x84/0x834
[<ffffffff8103781a>] update_curr+0xb9/0x15b
[<ffffffff81034c41>] check_preempt_curr+0x25/0x62
[<ffffffff8103fa6d>] wake_up_new_task+0xce/0xd5
[<ffffffff810451db>] do_fork+0x1c5/0x27b
[<ffffffff8106f03c>] sys_futex+0x12f/0x147
[<ffffffff81053846>] sigprocmask+0x9d/0xc6
[<ffffffff81338dd2>] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
[<ffffffffffffffff>] 0xffffffffffffffff

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:55:00 2011 Host: 192.168.1.9
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[<ffffffff812e3899>] scm_destroy_cred+0xc/0x35
[<ffffffff812e38cb>] scm_destroy+0x9/0x20
[<ffffffff8105f50e>] prepare_to_wait+0x19/0x72
[<ffffffff812e519f>] unix_stream_recvmsg+0x2c5/0x575
[<ffffffff8105f351>] autoremove_wake_function+0x0/0x2a
[<ffffffff81268360>] __sock_recvmsg_nosec+0x29/0x69
[<ffffffff81268dc8>] sock_aio_read+0xe1/0xf0
[<ffffffff8106c92c>] wake_futex+0x2b/0x47
[<ffffffff810fb77b>] do_sync_read+0xb1/0xea
[<ffffffff810fc1d6>] vfs_read+0xb4/0xfb
[<ffffffff810fc2d3>] sys_read+0x45/0x6e
[<ffffffff81338dd2>] system_call_fastpath+0x16/0x1b
[<ffffffffffffffff>] 0xffffffffffffffff

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jul 14 17:55:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That seems to be the thread that has the lock locked. Why exactly
scm_destroy_cred is hanging is beyond me

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:41:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bad idea: We should run an IDS in reverse so we notice when accounts
are compromised and attempting to hack into other machines, so we can
shut them down.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:42:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"In reverse"?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:42:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 89a8bf1 [PATCH] Sun-3 duplicates <nelhage>

"Detect attacks *originating* from scripts"

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:42:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Usually an IDS notices sketchy-looking packets going into your
network. I want to watch for sketchy-looking packets leaving our
network

Class: geofft Instance: fortune.q
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:44:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What the gods would destroy they first submit to an IEEE standards
committee.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:58:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> rehearsal

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 18:58:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

crosslinked?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 19:05:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

There are definitely other people who use IDSs for exactly what you
propose. I think the problem is that they're usually waaaay too
trigger-happy.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 14 21:10:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes.

Also, I found my pitch pipe. I gave it to the folks leading it so
they could use it this summer :-)

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Jul 14 21:10:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We don't have to give the IDS actual power to terminate accounts. They
can just alert

Class: geofft Instance: ops
Time: Thu Jul 14 21:41:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, who's soble?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 14 22:10:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/registrar/calendar/index-test.html

The Registrar's office wants to know if the new ICS files at the
bottom left are useful. (via ua-exec@)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 14 22:10:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Send thoughts to abklein@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 03:00:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Package: pdfcube
Description: PDF document viewer with 3D effects
 PDF Cube is an OpenGL API-based 3D PDF viewer that adds a compiz/Keynote-like
 spinning cube trasition effect to your PDF presentations. You can also zoom on
 5 predefined areas of any presentation page with a smooth zooming effect.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 10:57:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really, we should just rename them "Athena Labs" and stop confusing
everyone with the word "cluster"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 10:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that sounds like "Google Labs". Maybe lowercase the l.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 10:57:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

AthLabs

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Fri Jul 15 11:06:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gnome-panhel

Class: geofft Instance: else.discuss.bad-ideas
Time: Fri Jul 15 11:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

discuss:  am gmane.mit.edu:gmane.linux.debian.devel.general
Meeting main discussion list for development topics
(debian-devel@lists.debian.org) added.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 14:12:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My name is Rodrigo Moya. You failed to kill your gnome-settings-daemon.
Prepare to die.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 14:13:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Fri Jul 15 14:38:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You hypocrite. Of all people, you should avoid stereotypes.

Class: geofft Instance: religious.student.group.mq.ttants
Time: Fri Jul 15 14:52:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and go somewhere economical for dinner" (what was actually written)
"and go somewhere ecumenical for dinner" (what I misread)

Class: geofft Instance: jdreed.billy-joel.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:12:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

He's waiting for his package to get ACK-ACK-ACK-ACK-ACK-ACK-ACK-ACK'd

Class: geofft Instance: jdreed.billy-joel.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:13:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "And it seems such a waste of time"

Class: geofft Instance: jdreed.billy-joel.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:13:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*sounds of motorcycle revving up and peeling out*

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:27:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, wait, why am I not on sofa?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:28:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Note, since this apparently caused confusion, I did not say "why am I
not on a sofa"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.ttants
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:28:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

sofa (software-announce)
sofa (couch)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:32:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<_<

>_>

*hides*

<small>Hm, Unity is actually kind of cool.</small>

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:33:26 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living. <eichin>

burn the witch! :-)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:34:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not terrible. I'm using it now.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:34:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*looks around for pitchfork*

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:34:10 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: nuns have the right of way <eichin>

(one of my coworkers has actually confused people
as to whether he was running windows 7 or natty, because he has them
configured pretty close to each other.)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:34:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd like to compare it to gnome-shell, but I'm worried about the
consequences of pulling in everything from the gnome3 ppa.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:34:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, gnome-shell terrifies me much more

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:57:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I seem to really want to sing along to something. Freezepop may be the
wrong choice for this

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jul 15 15:58:13 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I dunno, man. Belting out the words to "Do you like my Wang?" seems
like a great idea to me.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:11:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

Silly Songs with Larry!

Class: geofft Instance: linux-3.0.epic.win
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:17:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://lwn.net/Articles/451168/

Class: geofft Instance: linux-3.0.epic.win
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:20:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0ccfd83 [DRM] Update MAINTAINERS. On request from Rik. <nelhage>

Yeah, that was pretty awesome

Class: geofft Instance: linux-3.0.epic.win
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:20:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6ede31e x86, msr: msrs_alloc/free for CONFIG_SMP=n <nelhage>

Is it getting merged?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-3.0.epic.win
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:20:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LWN implies unlikely.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:21:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... PCLinuxOS... uses... rpms with Synaptic?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:22:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Guys, it's not called Synyumic"

Class: geofft Instance: linux-3.0.epic.win
Time: Fri Jul 15 16:22:06 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

aww

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:11:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, to whoever I mentioned the thought to -- I'm punting the idea of
visiting CA this summer. I might try sometime in the fall like
Thanksgiving. "Or I might just move there in the spring"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:11:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, well.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:14:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If you come over Christmas, I'll actually be in town.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Subject: IS&T-Customer Support Potluck Appeteaser

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:39:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why do I have "ZOMG MIDWAY" in my gcal?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:39:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, this is actually on the ASA cal, not one of my other
student groups'? O_o

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:44:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, who put that in?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:45:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Rachel. (This is on the internal calendar, not our public one)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:52:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, what did this crazy geofft kid do in 2009, and can I revert
it...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:52:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also this crazy broder kid)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:53:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Science Park. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

omg remember macathena?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:54:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah! We were talking about it today with the new hire, even. Almost

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:54:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really want to make a pantsful debathena-style winathena, first,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:54:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Winerva?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:58:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Boylston. <stum>

i would think that there are significant architecture differences that
might make that hard.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:59:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The room has devolved into going "aww wookit de widdle winerva".

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 20:59:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think we should not make this project happen.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:00:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In all seriousness, I'd only be targeting clients-level support
(debathena-standard), not login-level support

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:33:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

     Remove the following packages:
1)     gdm3                        
2)     gnome                       
3)     gnome-desktop-environment   

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:33:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In what world is that reasonable. Ever.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:33:53 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

"Why I don't use aptitude"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:34:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I think I'm about to either fork it, switch to apt-get, or both

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:34:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

apt-get does the same thing, for the record.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:34:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, what would you expect aptitude to do instead?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:35:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno, really. Fail horribly? Claim that it's not installable at all
unless you remove packages you really really want?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Recommended packages:
  ubuntu-desktop
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  gdm3 gnome gnome-desktop-environment

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:35:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Note, this is Debian)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:36:31 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

what are you installing?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:36:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

On what basis would it decide you really wanted those?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:37:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, it's not actually inherently wrong.

kcr: debathena-login-graphical, which depends on gdm, not gdm3

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:42:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Breakfast sushi. Like a breakfast burrito.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:42:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You take some rice and inside it put some egg and sausage

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:43:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Or, just have raw fish for breakfast!

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:43:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or that.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 21:46:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The hours of the night creep past. Her dreams are cold and crisp and twisting things.> <xavid>

'Twould probably be a bit more accessible than the traditional
Japanese breakfast, which is mainly salt (cooked) fish and raw egg
over rice.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Fri Jul 15 22:00:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[redacted hilarious unintentional innuendo]
[redacted pointing it out]
[redacted acting defensive]
[something worth roomq'ing]
"Whatever you're typing, I want you to stop."
*hands in the air* "I don't want any trouble!"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Fri Jul 15 22:00:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

[repetition of, the title of the song]

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:32:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://www.sushirrito.com/

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:34:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

++, even if I'm not that fond of burritos.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:34:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I really, really want to try this place sometime

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:34:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Unfortunately they only do lunch

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:34:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:35:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh, whoa!  in SF!

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Jul 15 23:56:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Jul 16 00:29:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, did dwilson and pbaranay trade?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Jul 16 00:30:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Jul 16 00:34:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

pretty much.  

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Jul 16 01:09:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, so I'm apparently not the first person to come up with this. I'm
glad that I did not come up with the following idea, though:

"Hot dog maki - We sure are getting far from authentic Japanese
cuisine with this one, aren't we? Microwave a hot dog. (I prefer
Hebrew National franks. They cost more, but they taste great, and I'm
a little more confident of their content than cheaper hot dogs.) Then
set some plastic wrap on the bamboo rolling mat and, instead of
putting the rice on a sheet of nori, spread the rice directly on the
plastic. Make a rectangle as wide as the hot dog is long and about 4
inches long, pressing the grains down to make them stick to each
other. Put the hot dog down, roll the rice & hot dog up, then secure
the plastic around the roll - tucking the ends in to keep the rice
from squeezing out like toothpaste from a tube - and compress the
roll in the bamboo mat.  Compress it good so it'll stay together
without the nori, but don't crush it."

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Jul 16 01:38:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Sat Jul 16 08:27:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Frozen pierogies, frozen potstickers, and frozen vegetables in a pan
with some oil and a little water. Cover and cook on medium high and
go get distracted for a few minutes.

The problem is the pierogies really wanted to be cooked without water
to get crisp, but otherwise it worked well. I'm not sure how to fix
this -- if they were undercooked, the answer would be to start the
potstickers (and vegetables), uncover and let the water boil off, and
add the pierogies, but they aren't, really...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:34:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I suppose writing up GameTeX-with-git docs _right now_ and getting
Guild Camp teams to use it would probably be less than productive

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:34:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(This basically reduces to git docs, there's nothing special about
GameTeX here)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:53:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<But then it is time. She sits up.> <xavid>

The Guild game writing style doesn't benefit from git nearly as much
as software development.

Class: geofft Instance: guild-camp
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:56:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, \laTeX renders as "(La)TeX"? Did not know.

Class: geofft Instance: guild-camp
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:57:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also yay "running GameTeX on Athena 9 is no longer supported"

Class: geofft Instance: guild-camp
Time: Sat Jul 16 10:58:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(he says, from an Athena 9 computer)

Class: geofft Instance: hipster-ubuntu
Time: Sat Jul 16 11:06:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Zephyr sent to kenclary  11:04  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    Oh. I would probably say apt-get instead of aptitude because Ubuntu
    decided that they liked aptitude better before it was mainstream, and
    doesn't install it by default any more.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Jul 16 11:43:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

stark: I'm pretty sure this is a thing in China, but not with hot
dogs.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Jul 16 11:44:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"you mean, with regular ones?"

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Jul 16 11:49:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

Heh. No, it was some kind of skinny pork sausage thing. I tried eating
it like a hot dog, and it didn't taste very good, but I think that was
because you're supposed to eat it in slices, not all at once.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Jul 16 11:50:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

the sausage had a lot of fat in it, which is why I thought about the
slices. Also the rice layer was thicker than what you're describing.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.q
Time: Sat Jul 16 14:10:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Tentacles of Phone-Hacking Scandal Grow Tighter Around Cameron"

Ew.

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:27:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure I want to watch Buffy any more

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:27:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Whyyyyyyy

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:27:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Xander is hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:27:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

He is sooo a better sidekick than Rob.

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ergo ipso facto columbo oreo. - from Bones <wings>

========= Cathy 

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

s/Rob/Ron

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. - Hitchhiker's Guide <wings>

Oh, wait, I read that wrong

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: MIT administration can be modeled by bunnies and carrots. - remeyer <wings>

... er, except now it's fine ^^

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

:D

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

*high fives*

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:28:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

You knew what I meant ^^

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:29:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, is Ron a Harry Potter character?

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:29:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Harrvvarrdd?  But I'm /human/. - lexrj <wings>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:29:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Have you... not read HP?

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:30:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I've read the Methods of Rationality!

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:30:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I know someone I know hasn't, but... oh, it's not you that I remember
as not knowing anything about HP.

Class: geofft Instance: ztoys
Time: Sat Jul 16 15:30:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

...should I add you to that list of people?

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 16:55:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"A20 gate not responding!"

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 16:56:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e46b25f Forward ported a bunch of cleanups from 2.4.  Improved error messages, slightly different formatting, removal of dead code, and some stray C99 initializer conversions. <nelhage>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 16:57:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 038c5b3 Kobject: change drivers/cpufreq/cpufreq.c to use kobject_init_and_add <nelhage>

        /* Enable the A20 gate */
        if (enable_a20()) {
                puts("A20 gate not responding, unable to boot...\n");
                die();
        }

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 16:58:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 639ffd2 V4L/DVB (5932): Af9005 fix tuner module unload <nelhage>

Dear god, there is an entire arch/x86/boot/a20.c, which tries four
different ways of enabling the line.

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 17:06:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'm surprised that you're surprised.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 16 17:09:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tyger:~/debathena/svn/debathena/scripts/installer geofft$ cat pxe/svn-commit.tmp
Copy intrepid/ to jaunty/ and s/athena10-intrepid/debathena-jaunty/g.

--This line, and those below, will be ignored--

A  + jaunty
A  + jaunty/debathena-jaunty-loader.sh
D    jaunty/athena10-intrepid.preseed
A  + jaunty/debathena-jaunty
M    jaunty/debathena-jaunty/postinstall.sh
M    jaunty/debathena-jaunty/preseed.autoinstall
M    jaunty/debathena-jaunty/installer.sh
M    jaunty/debathena-jaunty/preseed.common
A  + jaunty/debathena-jaunty.preseed
D    jaunty/athena10-intrepid-loader.sh
D    jaunty/athena10-intrepid

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 16 17:09:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... guess I don't actually need to commit that any more?

Class: geofft Instance: found-in-my-vm-ram-dump
Time: Sat Jul 16 17:19:18 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Aahhhh *memories of gate A20 problems w/ poulsbo*

Yeah, I'm surprosed you're surprised.

Class: geofft Instance: student.government.history
Time: Sat Jul 16 19:02:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... SIPB and LSC were on Inscomm (along with Dormcon, GSC, NRSA, etc.
etc.)?

Class: geofft Instance: student.government.history
Time: Sat Jul 16 19:03:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I found a bunch of old docs (UA constitution, ASA minutes, ASA
preisdent impeachment charges, etc.) in the back of the SIPB office.
Apparently there's a good reason for us to have gotten copies of all
this.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Sat Jul 16 21:00:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Starking, I figured it out. The VM sends an HM_BOOT message. :-(

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Sat Jul 16 21:01:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really I'm not sure why anyone thought HM_BOOT was a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 21:16:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unfortunately, I have no VMs that... actually boot to a usable
enviornment, I think

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 21:17:04 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

It's okay, it's fast now, but now I need to get X to work :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 16 21:20:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Also, can I do graphics card pass through yet?"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Sat Jul 16 23:13:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#  define LIBUDEV_I_KNOW_THE_API_IS_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE
#  include <libudev.h>

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Sat Jul 16 23:13:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's never a good sign.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 16 23:24:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 00:32:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 09:52:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If a T-shirt is about some Christian organization, that makes it
appropriate Sunday morning attire, right?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 10:31:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Making breakfast takes time :-9
but om nom nnom mac and cheese and chorizo

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 10:32:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 10:45:45 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Fact not found. <asedeno>

misread: mac and cheese and cheerios

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 10:46:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That sounds differently tasty but with less protein.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 12:05:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are you and or Liz working on Debathena today?
(I ask because I'm on campus and will be for the next several hours)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 13:13:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I plan to review some commits today, but probably won't be able to do
any active development.  (I also won't be on campus for a couple hours,
anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 13:16:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm just going to test the installer/upgrader, then

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:12:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm online now. I'm at Area Four but can head to IS&T or something

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:13:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Liz I think is busy until probably at least 6, presumably the whole
day.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:15:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was gonna work on thesis, though.

I think the installer stuff I was working on yesterday is all
committed and deployed and works, modulo Debathena #978, which is
reproducible and causing lola-granola to not be reinstallable. It's
possible this is on-disk LVM corruption.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:15:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/ticket/978 <debothena>

Debathena ticket 978: Possible installation hang with lvremove

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:16:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you could test the natty installer (normal PXE, distro natty, beta
installer) on some other real hardware, preferably real hardware that
used to have a VG named "athena" like a cluster machine, and see if
that happens to you, that'd be useful.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:32:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, I'll go reinstall cheshire-cat, which should be a stock cluster
machine

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:33:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sounds good

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:33:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

src/sysdeps.h:26:2: error: #error "Your compiler is not ISO. Get a real one."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:33:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

well, s/stock/alpha/, but still

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:44:55 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It finished the partition stage and is now installing the base system.  I
assume the failure would have ocurred already?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:45:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, it happens right at the beginning of install-debathena.sh

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:45:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... what?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:46:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

install-debathena.sh cares about lvm because why?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:46:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because we're awesome is why.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:46:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(See also, it cares about the preseed)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:47:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... had no idea install-debathena.sh scribbled over the network config.
We should fix this

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:48:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's how we solved the 127.0.1.1 problem, I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:48:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"solved"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:49:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, I thought it was there because we didn't do a full networking config
in the PXE installer.  Now we do

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:49:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, if I pass netcfg/ip_address=whatever to the kernel, that should end
up in the base system, no?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:49:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And possibly LP #448095, while we're at it.

Really if we're delaying iPXE until IAP I'd like to take the
opportunity to just throw out the entire current installer, make
install-debathena.sh not know a thing about cluster other than that it
looks vaguely like workstation or standard, and do all this at better
points in the install

Class: geofft Instance: debathena Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:49:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/448095 <debothena>

Launchpad ticket 448095: resolvconf starts after ifupdown, does not pick the dns-nameserver and dns-search lines up from /etc/network/interfaces

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:50:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

yes please

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:50:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, I'd consider deploying in October, I just don't see any of us
having cycles

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:50:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Josh has cycles"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:50:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:51:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I agree that the only thing the installer should do is look for the name
of the metapackage to install that PXE passed to it, and do that

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:51:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:52:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, I have a whole bunch of "File descriptor n leaked on lvremove
invocation.  (n = 3..6)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:52:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

and lvremove is sitting there

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:53:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

what the hell is "keep2", anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:53:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It keeps blank space around on the disk so that we have room to make
LVM snapshots.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We let partman create it, and then we remove it in
install-debathena.sh.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:54:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"I can think of a way around that"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:54:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> lvremove is sitting there
Wow, :-(

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:54:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, it does occur to me now that I say it that the right answer is
to just punt the lvremove line.

> File descriptor n leaked
I'm not convinced that's a real problem. It basically just means your
shell sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:55:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll commit that, one sec

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:55:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Well, that's one way.  We could also delete it in the recipe

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:55:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"We could also stop using LVM"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:57:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LVM itself is reasonable.

Jon (or anyone), can you get me the output of "sudo lvs" and probably
"sudo lvs" on a realish Lucid cluster machine?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:57:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have to back downstairs, one sec

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:58:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

kill -9ing lvremove works.
and then a subsequent lvremove also works

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 14:58:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

let me go downstairs and run those commands, one sec.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:00:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Area Four is a really nice quiet space at this time on a Sunday

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:01:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"So is E17"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:03:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>can you get me the output of "sudo lvs" and probably
>"sudo lvs" on a realish Lucid cluster machine?

... those are the same command.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:03:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

vgs

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:03:24 2011 Host: CRUELLA-DE-VIL.MIT.EDU
From: Joe A. User <joeuser>



Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:03:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

and of course lvm2 isn't installed...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:04:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... does that... work?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:04:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Does what work?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:04:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A system with LVM without the userspace tools installed?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:05:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Cyclic garbage collection
Cyrillic garbage collection

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:05:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, apparently this isn't a real cluster machine.  Standy...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:05:51 2011 Host: DALE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe A. User <joeuser>

  LV     VG     Attr   LSize   Origin Snap%  Move Log Copy%  Convert
  root   athena -wi-ao 226.85g                                      
  swap_1 athena -wi-ao   5.74g                                      

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:05:56 2011 Host: DALE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe A. User <joeuser>

  VG     #PV #LV #SN Attr   VSize   VFree
  athena   1   2   0 wz--n- 232.59g    0 

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:07:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Can't we just remove the "keep" part from the partman recipe?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:08:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, but first I'm trying to figure out where it does get removed

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:09:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you'd rather these or something, this can wait until Monday

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:19:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Index: lvm-cluster-machine.partman
===================================================================
--- lvm-cluster-machine.partman (revision 25248)
+++ lvm-cluster-machine.partman (working copy)
@@ -16,6 +16,3 @@
         $lvmok{ }
        method{ swap } format{ } .
 
-10000 100000 1000000000 ext3
-        $lvmok{ }
-       method{ keep } .

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I just want to be confident that you want to remove that and
the corresponding install-debathena.sh line and that that works.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:22:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'm source-diving partman)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:23:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

The area or the cafe/restaurant?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:23:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The cafe.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:24:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You don't need to source dive - the recipe format is documented

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:24:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why's it called keep_2?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:24:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because it's the second partition, and it's keep

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:24:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

See also "swap_1"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:27:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay. (Is ... that documented?)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:27:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:28:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can just test in stage 2 by editing the recipe and installer by hand,
if you like?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:30:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, okay, I think I believe that removing that partition, probably
also making root take the entire disk (if that's not already implied
by the recipe), and removing the lvremove line from install-debathena
should work

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:31:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's implied byt the recipe.  It's divided now because both that and
the root recipe have the same priority

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:32:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OK.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:32:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I figured that's exactly why we have a keep partition instead of
saying "50%" and leaving the rest unpartitioned)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:32:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But I'll go reinstall with those two changes, and if it works, I'll
commit them.  For now, I'm going to push out that change to natty's
stage2 requireing a "Press return to continue".

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:33:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Objections?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:33:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Go for it.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:34:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(We may want to do that unconditionally if we happen to be using the
beta installer, just to give ourselves a toggle for it, instead of
commiting/reverting and deploying/undeploying that)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:34:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I thought we decided we wanted it anyway for "dESTROYS DESTROYS
DESTROYS"?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:34:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Anyway, off to test...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:35:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We want to fix that more differently. Like making the stage1 say that

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:35:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm going to get back to thesing now, where by thesing I mean reading
the Python documentation

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:38:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like there's a hilarious upstream bug to be found here, too,
but.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:46:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I can fire off another run of lola-granola at some point -- should I
hold off for anything, yet?

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:46:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want vim to redecide what syntax highlighting mechanism to use after
I type the shebang line

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:47:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

close and open.

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:48:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

breaks my flow.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:48:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Let Jon commit and deploy these two things (partman recipe and
install-debathena.sh) and then it'll be worth seeing if granola works.
Please test using the IP address instead of the hostname

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:49:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey I didn't have a syntax-highlighting vim installed

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:52:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, Evolution knows how to sync with Google calendars now? <3<3<3

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:52:43 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Too bad it still sucks at being an IMAP client"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:53:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, the point is that my gnome-panel's clock applet knows how to sync
with Evolution.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:53:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And so I get my appointments in a convenient place

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:54:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, that change worked.  root is 230GB instead of 115

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:54:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sweet.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 15:55:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'll push them out, and the installer change, one sec

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:02:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is like the third person who's walked up to the restaurant,
failed to noticed the overturned chairs, read the sign, and _tried the
door_ before realizing it' closed

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:03:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... then where are you?

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:03:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, the bakery part?

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:05:04 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Area Four?

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:05:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, the cafe/bakery is open.

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: conjoined cafe and restaurant in Tech Square next to Quizno's

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:05:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

"huh"

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:07:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

"Almost as creative as Cafe Four!"

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ITYM "as 1369"

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:43:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So if I'm using distutils. I should have my code in foo/*.py in my
repository, not in just *.py?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:45:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Their forms are sleek. Their heads are like beasts. They leap on one another.> <xavid>

If your code installs to foo/*.py, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:46:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, $PYTHONPATH/foo/*.py, but yes. (I want my code to be usable
with "import foo". Now I have an __init__.py at top-level... that
should become foo/__init__.py)

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... seriously guys, trying the door doesn't make a store magically
open

Class: geofft Instance: area.four
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:51:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It makes the helpdesk open after hours, why wouldn't it work in real
life?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:55:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

why are the yaks so tempting

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jul 17 16:55:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mmm, tasty.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 17 17:03:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Ooops, forgot to deploy those changes.  I'm going to do that and svn up
the beta installer

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 17 17:16:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Jul 17 19:37:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... you named your startup LessThan3?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:35:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On a random suggestion from the internet, trying to figure out what
to do with half a block of tempeh: tempeh sloppy joe. Saute some
chopped onions and peppers for a bit, then mix in crumbled tempeh
that's been sitting in barbecue sauce and put the result in a
hamburger bun.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:36:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It mostly just tastes like a bunch of barbecue sauce"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:36:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

"sounds like poison"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:37:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You'e objecting to the... barbecue sauce?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:38:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or are you allergic to soy and I forgot?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 20:44:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

No, the BBQ sauce.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Jul 17 22:51:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Caprica
Paprika

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 22:58:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm so confused when people say that such-and-such has a "nutty"
flavor

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Jul 17 22:58:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because that, to me, means "deathy". And all this stuff with so-called
nutty flavors tastes _good_!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:32:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't worry about things as much as I'm apparently supposed to.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:33:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hear I'm supposed to build a credit rating because I'm going to get
screwed down the line for not having a credit card and just paying
for things in real money. Meh. I don't really feel like caring.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:34:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Uh... they do credit checks when you rent apartments, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:35:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My log does not judge. (Said while holding a log.) <pquimby>

I don't actually know how true this is... if you don't have a credit
history, then you have no credit history. That's different from
"having a bad credit history."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:35:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

zhangc: Meh. If they won't accept me paying them in cash for the
entire duration of the lease, I probably don't want to rent from them
anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:35:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful zsig. <haiiro>

But it's probably worse than having a good credit history.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:35:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

In many places, this is regarded as WORSE than bad credit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:36:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And if I can't produce a sufficient stack of twenties to do that, I
probably shouldn't be trying to rent something beyond my means
anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:37:40 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: AOLspeek considered harmful!!1!!11! <aatharuv>

==lizdenys , and 

geoff, there are plenty of landlords who won't actually accept that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:37:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It turns out people get really sketched out when you give them several
thousand dollars in $20s.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:37:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It's not that they expect you to be beyond your means.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:38:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's dumb. This note is legal tender for all debts, public and
private...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:38:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You have to incur the debt, first.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:38:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Ah, but it's not yet a debt if they haven't agreed to rent to you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:38:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

On the other hand, if they sign the lease and you sign the lease,
*then* I suspect they'd be required to accept the Cold Hard Cash.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:38:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Also, may not be sent through the US Postal Service.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:39:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I suppose this is a facet of privilege / my parents being able to
meet the family contribution without me ending up with student loans
I need to deal with / having enough money in the bank that simply
staying cashflow-positive is sufficient)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:39:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<They curl up in the darkness and do not listen to the roaring in the night and the pounding on their walls.> <xavid>

We all know that geofft gets his rent money peddling drugs, anyways.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:39:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Trust me, lack of credit will eventually bite you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:40:20 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: zephyring is not unpacking <aatharuv>

When I was renting an apartment at a complex a few years back,
another person touring the place said "I'll give a deposit equal to
the rental owed.", and they were flat out turned down.

They're worried about, ==xavid, and possibly the "Know your customer
provisions" of the @#$@# Patriot Act.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:40:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I had no credit until very recently (got my first credit card a couple
months ago) and my furniture rental for the summer wound up needing a
co-signer.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:40:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Which they informed me of, with 3 hours to get one, at 2am local time
where I was.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:42:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The zsig is a lie. <haiiro>

I've had a credit card since 2007 and my apartment lease needed a
cosigner.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:42:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)     ((0<~~--  *HADOUKEN* >(^^ <mats_a>

meh, despite good credit I was bitten for doing a startup. Also
credit rating is a poorly-implemented reputation system (e.g. it goes down
the more people inquire about it =\), but it enables you to get things
like credit cards with good bonuses, making your money worth epsilon
more

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:43:02 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, does Verde's give hugs? -geofft <ismith>

If I understand how credit scores work, he doesn't actually have to
use credit as long as he gets a credit card, right?  The $2000 or
whatever limit he's likely to get is adequate?  Or does it actually
have to cycle in and out?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:43:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

Is there any reason you *don't* want a credit card?  
Having one and paying it off every month is a reasonable and
responsible thing to do.  (Also, some of them come with useful
features like virtual account numbers or cash back.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:44:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: They're taking the zsigs to Isengard. <haiiro>

If you get it from your bank, it's likely you can set it up to
auto-pay from your checking account.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:44:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Maybe "responsible" is the problem. It's one more thing to think about
every month.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:44:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Oh, yeah, that works.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:44:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (O_o <mats_a>

a credit card is adequate to build credit, as long as you don't ever
exceed X% of your credit limit

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:44:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's one more thing to think about, mainly. I could get one and never
use it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:46:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

== what everyone else said. Plus, since you're still a student, it'll
be easier for you to get a card with no credit history than it would
were you to try and do so later.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:46:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a bit of a moral objection to the credit rating game and would
like to give my money to people who don't play it. I certainly have a
bit of a moral objection to the credit card companies, too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:46:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's a temptation to spend more money than you have.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:46:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Unfortunately, every landlord you will ever have plays that game.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:46:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hell, some prospective *employers* do credit checks.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (<_< <mats_a>

@glasgall: actually my apartment refuses to accept credit card payments because
they won't wish to pay the 3% transaction fee

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should ask my current landlord...
I didn't have to show credit when moving in here, but that's because I
moved to an existing lease.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:11 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: eqnarray turns me on. <ismith>

> moral objection ... would like to give my moneyto people who don't
> play it

Blah blah, capitalism sucks, David and Goliath.  Except that Goliath
isn't just big, he's armored.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, I don't mean for paying rent, I mean for getting the lease in the
first place.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (o.o <mats_a>

glasgall: ah, apologies, I was just about to write that I think...
what you said

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Employers doing credit checks sounds like a giant "OUR HR DEPARTMENT
SUCKS" sign. I'd like those checks to fail before I interact with the
HR department further.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

> one more thing to think about
Automatic payments exist.

> temptation to spend more money than you have
Yeah, then don't.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:47:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I had to get a co-signer for my first two apartments. It's a pain in
the ass.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:48:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, if you decide to build credit *later*, it will suck harder,
because banks won't give you a card with no history without a lot of
begging and/or hoop-jumping. Do it now and save yourself a lot of
hassle later.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:48:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

After learning of the existence of fractional-reserve banking, I'm no
longer as sure that spending more money than you have is actually
the wrong way to go about things.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:49:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I'm unconvinced I want it ever. Presumably in n years I'll,
like, buy a house.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:49:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I only care about it in the short term when I'm renting apartments.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:49:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I have a credit card which I use for everything I'd use a debit card
for, and just pay off in full every month. It works, and I get
rewards points that I'm paying the price for card companies offering
anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:49:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You think they're going to give you a mortgage with no credit history
if they won't give you a lease without one?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I said buy, not mortgage. I don't want to spend beyond my means. If I
can't afford to pay for a house in cash, I'm not buying it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:50:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Where by "cash" I mean "check", same difference)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:51:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

ageng: It's not. Actually, in many ways, it's why modern capitalism
works.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:51:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

But it is tricky to do properly, and if you don't do it correctly you
massively increase your risk exposure.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:51:36 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: A mathematician did it. -pbaranay <ismith>

I'm not sure that's realistic.  I'm also not sure that "I have a
mortgage and a way to pay that mortgage monthly, plus a backup of N
months if I lose my job" counts as "beyond your means".  (I could be
wrong on both counts, I'm not an expert.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:52:09 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Grapefruit <aatharuv>

==glasgall, also even if you manage to acquire a credit history by
other means, having a lower credit score will easily drive up your
interest rates on all sorts of loans.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:52:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Amassing the $100k+ for a house all at once (multiply that by several
if it's in a major metropolitan area) is pretty darned difficult.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:52:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the only point I'm trying to make is that you currently have
an opportunity to a number that will make your life easier bigger at
no or next to no cost to you, and that it would be wise to take
advantage of it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:52:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

Note that a house is not an asset. You don't get any positive cashflow
from it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:52:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(also, ==oremanj)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:53:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Then I can keep living in an apartment. Honestly, I think I'd feel
uncomfortable getting a mortgage of that size even if they'd let me,
given these thoughts.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:59:25 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: KJ6IQZ <aatharuv>

Just get a credit card, and immediately rip it up. It's almost
certainly better than having no credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:59:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)       fish }><  };;^>   !(o.o <mats_a>

==geofft, the only reason I use a credit card is for the buyer's
protection it offers against fraudulent merchants, and the ~3% rewards
(using auto-pay to avoid any late fee)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:59:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I get a credit card and then cancel it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jul 17 23:59:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:00:07 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: ETOOMUCHSTUFF <aatharuv>

s/rip it up/shred it/

geofft: That defeats the point, it'll show up as "Account cancelled" or
something similar on your credit report.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:00:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And I'll point out that you're paying the cost of rewards points
existing even if you don't have a credit card (merchant fees that get
passed on to you in higher prices).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:00:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I feel like if I got a credit card, I'd end up finding one with
reasonable rewards, using it for the protection, etc., and then end up
_using_ it and I'm not comfortable with that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:00:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd argue that if you feel this strongly about debt, you're not very
likely /to/ end up "using" it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:02:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

So, remind me again why you are not OK with having "debt" on the credit
card, while having that amount of cash in your bank account?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:02:30 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: converting from steroids to crack or vice versa is a matter of writing a compatible protocol for transferring the contents of memory -geofft <ismith>

I think the wisest strategy that fits your goals is to get a card, and
then not carry it.  Keep it, but don't carry it or use it; if you have
a place you put important documents you don't use much (maybe not a
safe deposit box, but ... where do you keep your tax documents?  Or
birth certificate?) put it there.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:02:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Having a card that has no activity on it doesn't really help much for
your credit history.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:03:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There seems to be disagreement on that point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:03:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

My parents always told me a credit card with no activity is not very
useful.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:03:36 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Wait I think I just encouraged Ian to be a horrible person -wings <ismith>

glasgall: that was what I asked earlier, and no one commented.  My
mistake.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:04:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Ian: He has been known to carry his SSC in his wallet. He doesn't
/have/ safe security practices.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:04:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Boo, linguists are supposed to know everything! -pbaranay <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:04:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

You really shouldn't keep your SSC in your wallet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:04:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

They like using up a minimal percentage (less than 40%) of your credit
limit, but they dislike using 0%.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:05:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dude, my wallet is like the safest place I have for something of that
size and lack of lamination

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:05:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"So, use it to buy breakfast at a coffeeshop once a month."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:05:28 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: imsith: Darth Ian, the Snarkbot Sith. -pbaranay <ismith>

Until you get mugged!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:05:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh, I could script something to charge myself $1 with Square every
month.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:06:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:06:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Best idea evar

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:06:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:07:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: hummer means lobster, in Swedish <eichin>

buying a house with cash *confuses* people,
because you short cut more than half of the usual riddle trail.  But
that's what lawyers are for (that and the escrow account for the
actual mechanic of moving the money around.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:07:18 2011 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 2 3 17 19 31 21821 <cesium>

http://xkcd.com/576/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:07:27 2011 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 3 149 719 4079 <cesium>

(unmix, probably)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:09:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of lawyers, is it actually legal to say that we won't rent
you an apartment if you don't have a credit history, even if you do
have the money to rent it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:09:42 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Your mouth is not a substitute for an IV -austein <ismith>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Well, it seems plausible that certain types of discrimination are
illegal.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

(I don't know)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

Probably yes? The nondiscrimination clauses have to do with things
like gender and such.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...but I'm spewing bull here.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:36 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: throbbing base screws up telomeres, so house music is bad for you. -kcr <ismith>

People who don't have a credit history aren't a protected class.  If
you wanted to make it a legal t hing, you could try showing that
credit reports are a proxy for race or something that /is/ a protected
class.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:10:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there's "it's a free country, I can discriminate on anything
that's not a protected class". I wonder if there's an argument that
not having a credit history is correlated with being a protected
class. Probably not.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:11:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(It probably is correlated, but it probably is not a worthwhile
argument)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:11:56 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What's in the bag? <eichin>

don't forget car rentals, something else you
basically can't do with cash

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:12:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:12:35 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: U.N. Baby Penguin Welfare Fund... <eichin>

(actually, hunt down Steve Wadlow (sgw) some time, 
he's played the no-credit-cards game for a long time, and will know
the problems in more detail)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:12:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh, good to know.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:12:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Have we accumulated enough protected classes that ~anything is likely
to be correlated with at least one?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:13:35 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Dude, don't blame this on graduation. You were /always/ a bad influence. -wings <ismith>

Also, debit cards get charged all-at-once in some hotels, which can be
a problem if you're traveling on business with someone else paying.
(Eventually the money will go back in your account ... but an
indeterminate amount will belong ot the hotel for a while.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:14:58 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Welcome to MIT, home of entitled egomaniacs with simultaneously low self-esteem. -zacheiss <ismith>

ageng: No.  Sexual orientation is still not a protected class in some
states for housing, I think?  Certainly not for employment.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:18:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

As an ~landlord, I'll be really grumpy if you (try to) give me a
stack of twenties. That said, what I want is a check, and I assume
you can manage that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:19:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also... you prefer paying in cash over credit/debit card? Why?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, feel free to replace all references to "cash" in this conversation
with "check" or "debit card payment".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:19:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Weren't you ESP treasurer? I thought you liked stacks of twenties."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:19:53 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Counting them gets boring after a while.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:20:26 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: But I'm quite happy at MIT and not being stabbed in the face with laser acid banana shark bullets. -jasminef <ismith>

We have machines for that, Ben.  Information Processing machines.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:20:46 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I suppose you would trust the machines, you cyborg, you.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:20:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The interweb (fairhousingrights.org) says "If a housing provider is
deciding whether or not to provide housing based on certain
considerations such as income, credit report, criminal record, or
rental history, then they must apply the same criteria to everyone
i.e. if one applicant’s credit report is checked, then every
applicant’s credit report must be checked."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:22:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

I prefer cash for lots of things.
1)  My paranoia about credit card fraud is higher than my paranoia
about theft of cash
2)  Anonymity
3)  The psychological factor.  I tend to be frugal, and one reason why
is that I actually notice physically handing cash over for things.

That said, I do use credit/debit sometimes, and it's handier for lots
of things.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:23:46 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Handing over a check to cokecomm -- that doesn't feel like anything!
Nor does filling out dots!  It's like free food!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:24:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

I don't think (1) is legitimate. Yes, there is credit card fraud, but
your exposure is massively lower than in the debit card/cash case.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:25:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

(2) and (3) are fair.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:25:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

Honestly, it has occurred to me that the dot abstraction insulates
people from thinking about the cost, and thus might cause different
consumption patterns.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:26:05 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Leeloominaï Lekatariba Laminatchaï Ekbat de Sebat <eichin>

hmm, do we have all axes of behaviour here? :-)
I use cash for most in-person stuff, refuse to use debit cards [to the
point of cancelling a bank account when they made the ATM card a debit
card] because they fail in the wrong place, and use amazon prime with
one-click :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:26:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

-> geofft / else.d / AUTH: ezyang  2011-07-17 23:52:36  (Look to.) / DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
       Note that a house is not an asset. You don't get any positive cashflow
       from it.

... ongoing income is required for something to be an asset?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:27:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

Whether or not it is legitimate, it is how I feel.  And I wouldn't say
"massively" lower--last I checked I had perhaps $50 liability for
credit card fraud, and while I sometimes carry more cash than that,
it's not like I carry around thousands.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:27:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Beware of zomgs; they'll eat your grains. <ageng>

Maybe more important to (3) than physically handing something over is
the instant feedback of seeing how much cash you have left in your
pocket.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:28:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

The lower exposure is much more applicable to debit cards than cash,
although IIUC most real people carry around $200 in cash at any given
time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:28:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

Re (3), I always feel dirty when I have to get money out of the money
machine :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:29:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

Quite frankly, for an event like credit card fraud, $50 is peanuts.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:31:27 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Starking: I recently bought a house with cash (well, a cashier's
check), and it didn't confuse anyone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:32:29 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

However, I'd recommend getting a credit card, using it, and paying it
off every month.  It's a fine habit to have, and it's a fine thing to
filter for because it tells people that you're used to paying bills
on time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:32:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"But secretly, I'm not."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:33:05 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I love the smell of Courier New in the morning. -pbaranay <ismith>

"Practice."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:33:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

-> geofft / else / AUTH: geofft  2011-07-18 00:19:37  (Geoffrey Thomas) / TYGER.MIT.EDU
       "Weren't you ESP treasurer? I thought you liked stacks of twenties."

No. I don't like money... :/ You how it's supposed to be exciting to
be like "look, I'm holding $5K in cash in my hands right now" or
something? Yeah, it gets boring after the first couple hundred
thousand dollars... (Actually, I'm not sure I ever found it stunnigly
fun.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:33:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Admittedly, stacks of twenties are... mostly better than stacks of
$30 checks, as ESP treasurer.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:33:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#firstworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:33:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#ESProblems

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:34:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar. <ageng>

making me hold $5k in cash is one of the fastest verified ways to
give me paranoia.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:34:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Supposing I gave in... I'm having trouble deciding whether I want to
go for a card with lots of rewards and blinky lights and stuff, or the
most boring card so that I never use it outside of the Square crontab.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:35:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

I've setup autopay on my credit card. Is this unusual?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:35:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmm. Does Square let the app work from inside the emulator? Or is
there an API? ... Can I use Stripe for this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:35:47 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I love the smell of Courier New in the morning. -pbaranay <ismith>

ezyang: same.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, this sounds like an idea gdb would agree with.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:16 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's simply a matter of freedom of pleasure, a right which is *not* guaranteed by the Constitution... <eichin>

hmm, maybe post-mortgage-crisis that's gotten more common

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:23 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: laughter is used by mortals to indicate amusement -phurst <ismith>

geofft, you don't want to do that.  Just buy a meal once a month or
whatever, and set up autopay.  Use Mint or something similar if you
want to track it closely.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why not? It'd be lulzy.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:36 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Autopay meaning they siphon money out of your bank account?  The
only major risk there is that you might not have access to money in
your bank account while contesting a bogus charge, depending on the
timing.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:57 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Similar reasoning leads to preferring credit cards to debit cards.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:57 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The automobile brake was not invented until 1895. Before this, someone had to remain in the car at all times, driving in circles until passengers returned from their errands. <asedeno>

I don't think it's unusual, but I never have. I do get emails when a
statement is available, and schedule a payment for about when it's
due.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:36:58 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Does this count as "free as in puppy"? <ismith>

Because it's lulsy and potentially bugprone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:37:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

Autopay is nice. It means you just have to make sure you have enough
money in your bank account, which you should be taking care of anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:37:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

ghudson: Yeah, that's fair.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:37:36 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The answer 'no' wouldn't be interesting, therefore the answer is 'yes'! -freeman <ismith>

ghudson has a point; I've never run into it as a problem, though.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:38:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*shrug* I pay my credit card by hand, usually within a couple days of getting the bill.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:38:30 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(via, uh, EFT or wahtever.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:38:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hm. Thinking about APIs made me realize, I really should switch to
something that will give me reasonable notification of charges.

(My dad's credit card company will e-mail him on any transaction above
a certain amount; he's set that amount to 0. MITFCU will only e-mail
me when my balance drops below a certain amount, which is less useful)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:38:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

I suspect paying by hand is a good habit in that it gets you reading your
statement.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:39:11 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's true that I've never noticed a completely bogus charge on my
credit card, so that may not be a case one needs to optimize for
really.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:39:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

I would like a credit card company that sends me an email everytime I
charge. I haven't found that credit card company.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:39:22 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I pay with online billpay through my bank, which is convenient enough.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:39:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

   geofft / else / AUTH: ageng  2011-07-18 00:34:35  (Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar.) / DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
       making me hold $5k in cash is one of the fastest verified ways to
       give me paranoia.

Eh. How paranoid I get varies --- I carred around about that much for
Sages without worrying too much, but I made an effort to deposit the
~$1200 I got from an ET boarder the next morning.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:39:44 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "patches welcome" ~= "this is left as an exercise to the reader" -zhangc <ismith>

I mentioned Mint before; I use that, which means checking my current
state is easy enough that I do it weekly or so.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:41:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

geofft: which credit card company is your dad with?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:41:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which companies provide the one time use card numbers?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:43:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

MasterCard, I think. I'm not sure if this is through his bank, or
something

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:44:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You know what would be awesome? My debit card PIN being a SecurID.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:44:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Open the pod bay zsigs, HAL. <haiiro>

Bank of America provides them, at least with some cards.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:46:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Maybe I can script something to change my PIN online"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:46:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm. Unfortunately, I think BoA struck me as irritating enough that I
don't really want to deal with them any more...

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:47:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... anyone know of a credit card with a good API?

'Cause, like, something that I can tell BarnOwl to poll to report new
charges would also be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:49:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Perhaps you can use the Mint API?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:51:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

Oh man, Mint integration with BarnOwl. Maybe should be my next project.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:53:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is this, like, an invite-only GitHub-for-auth-using StackOverflow?
http://forrst.com/

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:53:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it's a combination of StackOverflow and a community blog.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:54:45 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A New Life Awaits You - in the Off-World Colonies! <eichin>

a quick google suggests that mint doesn't have an api...

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:55:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

laaaame.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 00:56:25 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: You know I've always liked that word, GARGANTUAN.  I so rarely have an opportunity to use it in a sentence. <eichin>

(my Chase card lets me set a "email above this
amount" and "email anything international".  I should try running with
it set to zero.)

Class: geofft Instance: late
Time: Mon Jul 18 02:11:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, saving messages from my saved message folder to my saved message
folder ... doesn't work as well as you'd hope

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 18 02:17:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 04:41:26 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

I do think that we probably underestimate the costs of holding a
credit card, particularly (1) convenience: over the course of many
years you will slowly acclimatize yourself to buying things with
plastic and will start buying expensive things carelessly; (2) price
translucency: studies suggest that even everyday purchases become
more expensive when paid for with plastic than with cash, e.g. you'll
buy more groceries without even thinking about it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 04:42:39 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Those could be really expensive decisions! Even one impulse iPad buy
puts you $500+ in the hole, and even if you just spend 2% more on
everyday expenses than you would've spent with cash, you're out $20
for every $1000 in spending.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 04:49:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Credit Karma (free service, creditkarma.com), will, for free, show
you three current kinds of credit score about you, let you update them
daily, and show you detailed information about seven KPIs from your
TransUnion credit report.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 04:50:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

I love the work they do to try to dispel common myths about KPIs:
"Note: You do not have to carry a credit card balance from month to
month to show credit card utilization. Simply using your card is
enough to show activity, even if you pay the balance in full and never
accrue interest. Credit card balances are reported by the issuer every
30 days based on the balance on that particular day. There is no
distinction between revolving and paid-in-full balances on your credit
report."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 05:08:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle & Roll <kchen>

The $50 max liability for fraud is the max set by law -- most banks
charge you $0 these days.  fwiw, I did have one case where I
physically had possession of the card, but charges showed up from
various places across the US at times close to one another -- I never
saw those on my bill -- my bank called me (and also posted a notice on
the web site), asked me what charges were mine, got rid of them, and
sent me a new card.  No paperwork or anything necessary.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:00:39 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

<stark> Playing the sgw-style cash-only game is a hairshirt
you don't need. Not having a credit card will, e.g.,
confuse employers and potential employers who want to
reimburse you for travel expenses. It is not require that
you game the hell out of your creidt score, but opting out
of the modern economy will be a drag on your life until you
give it up, at which point you will be behind.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:22:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, yeah, that does remind me that another "advantage" of using my
debit card is that it doesn't get randomly disabled if I travel.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:23:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

==tibbetts
Just get a credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:24:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I think you're on crack there, I get my debit/atm card
disabled at least as often as my credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:24:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:25:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can you then not get the money if you provide the PIN, or walk up to
an ATM? (I generally use my debit card with the "credit" button and
don't give the merchant my PIN)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:26:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Giving a merchant your PIN is stupid; it gives them the chance to steal
your PIN, and it makes it less likely you can dispute the charge
successfully.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:27:23 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Yes, when they diable your debit card for "fraud" you
cannot use it even with the pin.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 09:30:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

quentin: Yes, exactly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 10:16:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

It depends on your bank.  I have never notified Citibank, Scwab, or
FIA, and have never had them disabled when traveling internationally
(or domestically).

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 10:34:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

[stark]
> Which companies provide the one time use card numbers?

Citibank does (through an annoying Flash thing, but still).  

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 10:35:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Also through a downloadable application.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Jul 18 10:37:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Square Thru 4 <kchen>

Oh yeah, my FIA one does too.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:20:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

PSA: If you care about news about Athena releases / cluster or dialup
upgrades / etc., subscribe yourself to release-announce. Basically
anyone who's maintaining anything that interacts with the Athena
clusters in any way should be on this list

http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/release-announce

If you care about Debathena in particular, you should also be on
debathena-announce, which is a bit higher traffic but not really.
(It's a moira list, blanche yourself on)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:21:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

s/clusters//

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:21:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

True

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:32:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The office is freaking out about Piazza having only two Z's.

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:32:42 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: dvp on the command line <dvp>

How ... many should it have?

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:33:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Spring term they had three.

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:34:32 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: dvp on the command line <dvp>

In high school, one of our loonier physics teachers convinced an
exchange student from Brazil that vacuuuum was the only word in the
English language to have four consecutive u's! He kept up the charade
by always writing vacuuuum on the black board and even on exams.

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:34:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:34:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

++

Class: geofft Instance: piazza
Time: Mon Jul 18 12:35:10 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I saw the word 'cyborg' and thought of you. -zhangc <ismith>

I guess that's better than spelling it vacwm.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 18 13:37:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I should, like, figure out what I'm taking next term

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 18 13:37:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That reminds me, Debathena development needs a course number...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 18 13:38:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Under urban planning, right?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 18 13:39:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

no?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:39:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

new zsig

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:39:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: welcome to the library <kdrinkwa>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:49:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/wiki/WhenToUseTheStupidTildeInVersionNumbers

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:49:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's been there for like a year

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:50:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

That's the best page ever.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 14:51:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

s/a year/4 months/ but whatever

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:04:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Is today a good day for ... anyone?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:04:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm fine!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:04:40 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Hot water freezes quicker than cold water. <asedeno>

Things are fine here.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:04:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Could you imagine a DMV of reproduction? - ismith <wings>

It's fine for me?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:04:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Things are still fairly neutral here.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:05:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

it's going OK for me

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:05:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My log does not judge. (Said while holding a log.) <pquimby>

I woke up really grouchy and tried to not talk to anyone for the first
few hours of the day, lest I explode.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:05:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:05:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Chiswick Road. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

today is also not my day.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:08:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm...not yet having a bad day. I'm still kind of enjoying the
satisfaction of discovering the race condition that's been plaguing me
for the last 4 days, and trying not to think too hard about the fact
that my fixes for the race condition aren't workign yet :)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:09:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But you're 3 hours ahead, so there's still plenty of time for things to
suck :-/

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:09:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's true

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:15:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Ooh, I could volunteer for graduate orientation.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:44:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

geofft: "I blame Bill Cattey."
lizdenys: *blank look* "Who?"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:44:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My log does not judge. (Said while holding a log.) <pquimby>

I forget that it's strange that I know Bill...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:45:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:50:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Even I recognize the name!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:51:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I lost the Mary's game to Bill!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:51:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

augh

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.eip
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:53:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I got this sent to me...
http://i.imgur.com/D4hLx.png

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:57:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

starnine@buzzword-bingo:~$ cat README.mail 

  Athena does not support the traditional ``mail'' command.  Please
refer
  to the document "Electronic Mail on Athena".  This document is
available
  in hardcopy at no charge in the Copy Tech Center in the basement of
  Building 11.  This document, and many others, are also available on-
  line: type "help" at the athena% prompt for a listing of documents
  and then click on a title to view your selection.

starnine@buzzword-bingo:~$

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 15:57:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Patches welcome"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:12:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ fs checks -fast -all
These servers unavailable due to network or server problems:
10.10.1.17 modesty.csail.mit.edu c-76-19-64-67.hsd1.ma.comcast.net.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:43:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

wait when did I set my Athena session (dmrc) to "xterm"?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:43:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

That explains why every time I log in I only get an xterm

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:44:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:44:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:44:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I assumed that Jared's reply was jdreed because it said only "...".

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:45:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... ... ...

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:45:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... ... ...
... ... ...
... ... ...

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:45:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Dot ALL the L's!

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:45:39 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I pity whoever goes next.)

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:45:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, do you get a WM?

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:46:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you just always run one afterwards, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:46:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No. I just look at the xterm and get confused

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:46:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And it took you how long to realize this?

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:47:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It seems to only apply to kid and mega-man.

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:47:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

...  ... ...
 .    .   .
   .   .   .
...  ... ...
 .    .   .
  .    .    .
...  ... ...
 .    .   .
  .    .   .

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:47:52 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: MESSIAH HALL SHALL SAVE US -pbaranay <ismith>



Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:47:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:48:11 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I can picture kdrinkwa on pbear's left shoulder and [ismith] in snark devil gear on his right. <ismith>

 . 
 . 
 . 
 . . .

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:48:16 2011 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 2 2 2 2 181 452701 <cesium>

.     .   .      .      .. ..
 .    . ... ... ... ..  .   .
  .   . . . . .  .  .  .     .
   .  . . . . .  .   .  .   .
    . . ... ...  .. ..  .. ..

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 18 16:48:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Off my class, please.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Jul 18 17:01:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"I have RSI and my arm hurts."
"You know, that works with both definitions of RSI. I had RSI students
and my arm hurts because I had to punch them."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:49:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Okay, I've mostly gotten comfortable with working on scripts stuff
and running into stupid AFS bugs because no one else uses AFS at the
scale we do.

But I'm not really okay with working on ASA stuff and running into
stupid Moira bugs because no one uses mailing lists at the scale we
do.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:51:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Set up a mailman server. Problem solved.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:52:07 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think you mean "now you have two problems".

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:52:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That too. :)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:52:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm way more tempted to move every single ASA list to mailman.mit.edu
than I think anyone on the ASA is comfortable with, starting with me.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:56:06 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What kind of moira bugs?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:58:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This is the third time we (adehnert and I) can think of off the top
of our heads in recent memory in which there's an e-mail address
who's kind of on a list but not really, and we can't remove them.

The current address is not on any lists, but is recursively on some
lists (including a list I sent an e-mail to last night, and got a
bounce from)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:59:21 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What happens when you try to remove the address? It doesn't let you?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:59:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's not on any lists, so we can't remove it...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:59:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

What list are we supposed to remove it from? :)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 18:59:52 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You said it's recursively on some lists?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:00:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Wait, are you talking about a bug or an intentional behavior that's just
annoying you?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:00:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I think the least recursive of those is not a list we control.
danjared: Actual bug.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:01:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(In both the ASA/Moira case and the scripts/AFS case)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:01:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

foo is on a list that's recursively on a list that you don't want foo to
be on?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, but it isn't directly on *any* list.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:05 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

No, foo is not directly on any list at all.
But, if you ask for a recursive listing of some particular list, foo is
included.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It should be on some list directly if it's on some list recursively.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You would like to think so!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:02:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Are you sure that it's not just some oversight when looking for what list
it's on?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:03:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Not saying it's necessarily the case. I just know that I've made that
error before.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:03:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No. I got Laura, who has the relevant minor deity bits, to run "qy
glom string foo" and it has nothing, and "qy glom rstring foo" lists
several things.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:03:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

huh, weird

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:04:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Exactly.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:04:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The previous case involved a list with no recursive lists at all. I
think that was a bug on the mail server side, not the Moira side, and
had mostly been a result of the LDAP incremental getting confused
about plus signs

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Jul 18 19:09:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I have determined that "One Week" works really well when taken at
about 70% of its original tempo, and swung, with finger snaps on the
off beats.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:19:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Let's try this rule: every time I think I want to open Reddit, I
should instead open my todo list

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:20:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

chrome has a new tab to google tasks plugin

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:20:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

My todo list organization would sync poorly at best with an external
task list. (Which reminds me, I really need to get something useful
for my phone)

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:21:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Actually, if you have a todo list hosted somewhere, why don't you just
play with /etc/hosts ?

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:21:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's not hosted somewhere, it's in a git repo.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:21:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

And making it online is exactly the sort of yak I shouldn't ever work
on.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:21:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

run a webserver on localhost with an index.html that redirects to your
todo list.  Put 127.0.0.1 www.reddit.com in your hosts file.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:22:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

ah, afarrell beat me to the suggestion

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:22:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

> run a webserver on localhost
I run Windows. Yak.
> with an index.html that redirects to your todo list
I don't have a clone on my Windows partition. Yak.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:24:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

run a webserver on a VM (yak, and a hairy one given
how annoying VMs are to spin up...at least for me.)

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:24:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Making VMware work on here without making my performance suck is a
yak of the highest order

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:25:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I mean on xvm

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:25:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

That seems like it's strictly more of a yak than using, like, scripts.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 18 20:53:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Debugging my computer. (An insect flew up to it and decided to chill
in between the display and the body.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 18 21:00:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Why are there so many twinkies here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 18 21:02:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

on zephyr?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 18 21:02:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No, thirty feet to my right.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Jul 18 21:35:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I bet I want to install Debian packages on campus, not, like, on
Tosci's wifi

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:41:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm kind of surprised that ThinkGeek is sufficiently profitable as to
employ _52_ people.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:42:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

That's what, a few million dollars a year?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:44:14 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

ThinkGeek is owned by Geeknet, Inc. (NASDAQ: GKNT).

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:44:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm, are they effectively the same company, or is "owned by"
interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:45:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

They also own everything that VA Linux used to own, for example
SourceForge and Slashdot.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:47:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I guess I am also surprised at SourceForge's ability to afford paying
someone to do (even so poor of) a redesign, instead of collapsing and
dying and going "301 Moved Permanently\r\nLocation: github.com"

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:47:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... ... Does it make sense for Github to buy out SourceForge?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:48:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

So, if you look at their Form 10-Q quarterly report...

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:48:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

(linked at http://investors.geek.net/financials.cfm)...

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:50:03 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

ThinkGeek made $15.2 million in Jan-March 2011 in revenues. But they
had some substantial expenses -- $13.6 million as "cost of revenue",
which leaves $1.5 million as "gross margin".

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:50:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Then there's two line items called "loss from operations" (negative
$1.7 million) and "depreciation and amortization" ($273k). Not sure
whether their 50-some employees (?) are "operations" or "cost from
revenue" -- I think the 10Q spells it out.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:51:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

> 50-some employees (?)
I bought something, and there are 50-some names signing the e-mail
thanking me for my purchase.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:51:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

Super cute.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:51:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

Their other source of revenue & expenses falls under the catchall
category "media" which means Slashdot, Sourceforge, and Freshmeat.
Interestingly, their "media" arm (1) makes less money but (2) makes
a much higher profit margin!

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:52:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Sourceforge is "media"?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:53:00 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

They got $4.7 million in revenue, which cost $1.3 million to get --
leaving them with $3.4 million in "gross margin" from Slashdot,
Sourceforge, and Freshmeat. Even with negative $663k "loss from
operations" (?) and $268k in depreciation, their margin of revenue
minus expenses looks to be a lot higher from the non-Thinkgeek arm of
the business.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:53:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Yeah, because they sell ads? Is that their revenue model?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:53:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I guess if ThinkGeek makes on that order of revenues, 1) this is
reasonable and 2) I am wasting my life

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:54:07 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

It is so hard to read this stuff with a straight face! "In April
2010, we launched our new Download service on SourceForge.  The
downloading of open source projects has always been a part of
SourceForge. Downloads generate a significant amount of traffic and
allow us to target highly relevant advertisements to those visitors
who visit SourceForge to download software."

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:54:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, yeah, I remember running across that feature. It sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:55:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What is this feature?

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:56:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It gives you a giant button with some sort of default download.

However, in my experience, I'm usually a) interested in a different
platform, b) downloading onto a different machine than localhost, and
c) looking for a source tarball anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:57:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> slee

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:58:04 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

VA Linux (the company which is now GeekNet, the owner of Slashdot,
SourceForge, Freshmeat, and ThinkGeek) is notorious for for IPOing at
$30/share and closing at $239.25/share, giving it a total market
capitalization of about $10 billion.

Class: geofft Instance: thinkgeek
Time: Tue Jul 19 03:58:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

They're now worth about $150 million.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Tue Jul 19 12:07:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Does Swartz have anything to do with xvm?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Tue Jul 19 12:07:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No. Posted without comment.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 19 15:41:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"[redacted] can [redacted] and I [redacted]. And you can't quote that
unless you redact it."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 19 16:16:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

What the crap is /usr/lib/news/bin/rnews and why is it setuid

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 19 16:16:24 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

usenet

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 19 16:16:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also /usr/lib/{emacs/23.2,xemacs-21.4.22}/x86_64-linux-gnu/movemail

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jul 19 16:35:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Geez guys, stop Ccing asa-midway on your internal group planning stuff
(simply because that's what confirmations of midway registration are
From:)

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jul 19 17:13:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

tyger:/mit/sipbzlog geofft$ ls

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jul 19 17:16:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:22:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

yayyyy acks

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:23:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

yayyy yaks

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.ntsa
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:23:03 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: And as long as you are breeding better humans, I have a few more suggestions ... -tibbetts <ismith>

yaaaaaaaaks

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:23:08 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: ... damn your literal non-literal interpretations! -wings <ismith>

Dammita :P

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:43:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"When I was young, I wanted to name my kid 'Matilde' so she could go
by 'Tilde', but then I started working on Debian packaging and no
longer think this is a good idea"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:43:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I,I Tilde, go home.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:43:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, apparently so that she can sign her name "~".

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:44:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Tilde, you've been superseded by a new official version"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:44:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Basically.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:45:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, would her home be ~~?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:45:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"We desupported that"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:46:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I really wanted a boy to name Matthew. I was going to name her
Matthewtilde, but my husband convinced me Matilde would sound better."

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:46:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:48:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

If she just changed her last name to Tilde, would Liz become Ma Tilde?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:48:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

A thing before "Matthew" would be "Matthew~", yes?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:53:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> Squares

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 19 18:59:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:36:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Bad ideas, partial list: set view_home owl-dynamic

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:36:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:03 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Stop thinking imperatively! -rnjacobs <ismith>

... what would that get you?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You had a vagina last time I imagined. - apfarr <wings>

I'm confused by what this is giving me... O.o

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Piper, did you just run that?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He tags it "bad ideas" and you immediately run it?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Every week you're not pregnant, biology cries. - codetaku <wings>

I just did "view owl-dynamic", and then went back to my filters

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, I see. That's ... better

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: School had a nuclear meltdown...? That's sort of possible for us. - codetaku <wings>

Er.

<.<     >.>

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

owl-dynamic is the last thing you did ":view -d" on

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:37:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: *Anthony dances*  "You are a sexy beast."  "I am an infected mushroom!" - me, apfarr <wings>

"I figured it wouldn't do anything permanent!"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:38:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: If the apocalypse comes, beep me. - Buffy <wings>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:38:19 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I'm a fan of lazily-evaluated adulthood. -oremanj <ismith>

Piper, that's never a good idea.  See also `rm -rf /` and
`:(){:|:&};:`.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:38:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(i.e., specify a filter text and view it immediately without creating
a filter... if you don't use it, it's boring. I mostly use it because
it's way faster than searching)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:38:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Have you considered  view -d perl system("rm -rf")"?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:38:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:39:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: shark:banana::penis:condom - ismith <wings>

I hate you all :P

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:39:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"It just defines owl-dynamic, it's nothing permanent."

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:40:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, what am I doing wrong?

alex@debian-i386-1 modules [10:47] $ :(){:|:&};:
-bash: syntax error near unexpected token `{:'
alex@debian-i386-1 modules [11:29] $ `:(){:|:&};:`
-bash: command substitution: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `{:'
-bash: command substitution: line 1: `:(){:|:&};:'

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:40:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You need a space after {.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:41:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Running it at all"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:41:26 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: it starts with an evil-looking smiley and takes down your system :p -rnjacobs <ismith>

I am amused that this is happening parallel to the trust discussion on
-c sipb.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:41:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

~strace'ing a fork bomb is awesome!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:41:50 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I ran _unopposed_ and still didn't get elected. People who rock, partial list: me. -geofft <ismith>

Speaking of which - Piper, have you read "Reflections on Trusting
Trust" yet?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:42:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Clothing optional, pants mandatory. - pbaranay <wings>

I skimmed it >.>

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:42:50 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: COWER IN FEAR, FOLLOWERS OF MAMMON, BEFORE THE GREAT BIRD REBORN AND THE COMBINED MIGHT OF SIPB -geofft <ismith>

Good enough :)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:44:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It seems to be slowly down...

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:44:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Isn't it like two pages?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:44:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

If your kernel is good enough and your OS configures things well
enough, you don't have to worry about fork bombs

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:44:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yeah, I'm going to go with !=ismith

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:45:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Read the whole thing. It'll be good for your paranoia gland.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:45:40 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: eqnarray turns me on. <ismith>

Yes, it's short, but as long as you get the aesop (and understand how
kt's trick worked), you don't need to read it in detail.  You could
pack it into a large zephyr.

That said, yeah, ==glasgall.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:45:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, really? Neat.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:45:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A sociopath asking a sociopath for advice doesn't work. - lexrj <wings>

I don't need any more paranoia!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:46:13 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: INTERNET!  MAKE ME NOT BORED! -wings <ismith>

You have adequate levels of paranoia.  But you need to direct it
better!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:46:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(I'm not sure any real kernels count, but this is totally solvable in
practice)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

*in theory

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:47:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I want to live in theory. Everything works there!"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:47:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. :(

It's also pegging half my CPUs. :(

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:48:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm. This may have locked up my machine. That's unfortunate.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:49:17 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Did you mix that *twice*? -oremanj <ismith>

You /knew/ what you were doing.  I have no sympathy.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:49:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==ismith

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:49:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I... congratulations on stealing the "dumbest person on my class"
award from Piper?

I think you win primarily because you knew exactly what that would
do and ran it anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:49:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's (slightly) excusable to run something to figure out what it does.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:50:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is there a "best of zephyr" quote db somewhere? I feel like this
belongs.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:50:37 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You mean we will *lyse* and then *fractionate* the radios. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

Various people's zsigs.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:51:46 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I wish /I/ could fly a horse. -lexrj <ismith>

Also, I nominate geofft's "It's (slightly) exusablae to run something
to figure out what it does." for the "bad advice of the night" award.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:52:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Sweet, the console is still semi-responsive? Maybe I can kill this.
Or not.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.d
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:52:23 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

The quotes discuss meeting

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:52:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've never actually run a forkbomb! It's a good learning experience, right?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:53:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1d809e4  Subject: [PATCH] RPC: display XIDs in host order <nelhage>

I'm almost surprised you haven't accidentally forkbombed yourself by
now.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:53:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, that was fun. But now it's time to reboot.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:53:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nope!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:53:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 97dc7c6 USB: ehci-omap: fix Si version related programming <nelhage>

I certainly have many times...

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:53:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

"I sold my soul to the devil. I didn't get any money. He said it would be
a good experience."

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:54:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I will reiterate:
   geofft / barnowl / AUTH: adehnert  2011-07-19 22:41:37  (Alex Dehnert) / NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
       ~strace'ing a fork bomb is awesome!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:54:23 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: fine line...between love...and a waste of money -clyde <ismith>

I mean, to be fair, I've run the bash forkbomb at lest once "just to
see".

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:54:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Probably best done with an strace running in your VM monitor, not your VM.)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:55:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Okay, fine, you do have valid reasons to run forkbombs that make
VMware more profitable.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:55:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(That's a terrifying thought)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 22:56:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm. Of course, that reiteration was mostly accidental. Let's try that again.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Tue Jul 19 23:07:19 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm. I think strace-in-the-vm (a) may be less fun, and (b) may
OOM-kill faster.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 20 03:57:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I am way too tired to concentrate. I think I'll just crash for a few
hours and deal with stuff before work

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 20 03:57:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "How could they forget about Paul Frickin' Baranay?" - geofft <pbaranay>

Good night, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 20 03:58:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who should be yelled at to work on NetApp or APO stuff. <afarrell>

good night.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 20 12:27:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

*yawn*

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jul 20 14:01:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

PA (Palo Alto); PA (Pennsylvania)
LA (Los Angeles); LA (Louisiana)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jul 20 14:02:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah I think that every time I type "PA"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jul 20 14:02:52 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

==

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:32:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Ugh, I need to stop having my code bind ports below 1024.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:32:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I guess this is actually useful from a production standpoint as well
as a "run it on a dialup" standpoint

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... wait why do I bind to both a port below 1024 and a port above it?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:35:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

... What's your thesis?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:38:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Why do my friends manage to worry me so much by doing the things I do
and approaching life the way I do?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:39:09 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Because you only barely pull it off

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:39:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

I dunno, how come the House ran up huge deficits during the 2000s and
now won't raise the debt ceiling?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:54:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

For the purpose at hand, the most awesome NFS server in the world.
It's bound to both ports 111 and 2049

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:56:49 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I want a copy of this NFS server once you're done. Because one of my
friends in Ohio manages to consistantly crash his kernel with NFS.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:57:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Client or server?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:57:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Kernel crash with NFS I would expect to be client ...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:58:01 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

He manages to break both.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:58:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

There's a reasonable userspace NFS server, unfsd, if your purposes
are merely "serve files" and not "do awesome things". And I don't
have client support yet (and it's not thesis-interesting, although I
might do it for Debathena)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:59:31 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Isn't unfsd NFS3 only?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jul 20 15:59:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"My current code is NFS2 only"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 20 18:41:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~$ cat /etc/resolv.conf 
# Generated by NetworkManager
domain csail.mit.edu
search csail.mit.edu
nameserver 128.30.2.23
nameserver 128.30.2.24
nameserver 128.30.2.25
# NOTE: the libc resolver may not support more than 3 nameservers.
# The nameservers listed below may not be recognized.
nameserver 128.30.0.125

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Jul 20 18:48:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Doesn't the libc resolver just go sequentially anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Jul 20 18:50:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

lol, Nickolai may have forgotten his GPG key

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:00:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The ASA has the odd distinction of being the only
student-government-esque group I've been affiliated with in some form
that I don't think should cease to exist in its current form.

(Maybe Finboard and GSC Funding also fall in this category. I can't
figure out how to make them better / replace them with something else
effectively.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:01:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I mean, I like to be called Mr. Cody Daniel. But that's probably not the case here." - fyrrwulf <pbaranay>

Are you referring to UA in general, or UA Senate in particular, or
what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:02:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The current else is SLOPE

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:02:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "ARE MY EYELIDS GOING BALD?" - wings <pbaranay>

Have I mentioned to you that ASA and Finboard are conflated into a
single body at Notre Dame? Which creates for some interesting
interactions.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:02:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(from -c asa)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:02:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I could swear I fixed all these bugs." "I snuck in while you weren't looking and put them back." - ismith, kaduk <pbaranay>

Ah. Yeah, SLOPE is...speshul.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:03:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

My only experience with being on funding bodies involves Rachel also
being on them, and occasionally someone like Nicole also being on
them, so that's... not actually unusual for me.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:03:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Can we get a new country?  A bunch of assholes broke mine." - turzaak <pbaranay>

I think that MIT, in general, has too many committees. "Colombo hasn't
helped this."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:03:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Newton Highlands. <stum>

SLOPE is not a government?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:03:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

It's really too bad that the ASA doesn't hire a single part-time
office admin to do 90% of its work.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:03:57 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

It would loosen up student space for really creative thinking.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:04:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I do not have alpacas.  It is my greatest flaw." - wings <pbaranay>

mherdeg: I was just about to say something like that, except I was
going to say the ASA is too small for all it tries to do.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:04:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Enh. That has the scripts@mit.edu property. While it would be nice,
it would also distance the people doing the really creative thinking
from the people they're doing said thinking _for_.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:05:00 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

It would also cost money.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:05:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"But I hear Leah has money"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:05:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Oh man, imagine outsourcing scripts@mit.edu tickets!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:05:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

I hear you can hire Russian call centers for unbelievably cheap.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:05:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I don't really have to. We outsource OLC tickets.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(have to imagine, that is.) I have a much better idea of what people
use scripts for and where it should be going than of what people use
Athena for and where it should be going, despite having more-or-less
equal role in figuring out what our development priorities are for
both projects

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:07:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The downside is that I feel like I get more actual development done
for Debathena, precisely because of that. (And OLC's volume is so
much higher than scripts@'s, so if I tried to handle the same
fraction of OLC tickets that I try to handle for scripts, I'd have
negative time left for development)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:08:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

stum: Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:09:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(I did intentionally say "student-government-esque group", not
"student government", but I think you could make a good argument that
SLOPE is a governmental organization.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:10:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Newton Center. <stum>

i see SLOPE as being more of a circus.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:34:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

IMO, the current "we want to be the US government" structure of the UA is a disaster.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:35:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did we ever go anywhere with our discussion with Jon about outsourcing scripts tickets to OLC?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:36:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I think all plans are singing-compatible." - xavid <pbaranay>

Yeah, I would collapse the Exec/Senate distinction, personally. Just
make it so that committees draw their power from Senate and call it a
day.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:37:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

scripts? Not really.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 00:50:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I guess Alex is active enough we don't care so much now."

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 02:14:11 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] That's because I hate outstanding things. The fact that we're
still on F13 is really bothering me, but it's at the point where I
can't do anything.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 02:14:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, is it? What's the holdup now?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 02:17:42 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Someone needs to go audit b-b. Then hook it up to LDAP.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 02:18:39 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The latter, Mitch definitely wanted to do. The auditing, someone else
can, I think. Or, alternatively, y'all can help come to a consensus as
to which credentials I should install on b-b, and I can do that,
whicch will make the audit more meaningful.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jul 21 02:19:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You should probably poke -c scripts again?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 21 09:21:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 21 10:28:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
           mene [@<@color(yellow)=====     >]@<@color(yellow) (5/10)>
           mene [@<@color(yellow)====      >]@<@color(yellow) (4/10)>
          tekel [@<@color(yellow)======    >]@<@color(yellow) (6/10)>
       upharsin [@<@color(green)==        >]@<@color(green) (2/10)>

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.fedora.steering.committee.ircq
Time: Thu Jul 21 10:53:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

17:05:49 <dvlasenk> I tried to understand what Trusted Boot *is*, and
failed.
17:06:11 <ajax> dvlasenk: it's a complicated way of making your
machine less likely to work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 21 12:13:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm. -> campus?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 21 12:14:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I guess that's the right answer. -> lunch -> bukkits -> ID ->
employment stuff? -> tool a bit -> back home to finish making dinner

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 13:41:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if I have a SIPB membership card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 13:44:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

woah, we have SIPB membership cards?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 13:44:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

They're in the drawer with the stamps

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 13:44:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: an honourable man does not shoot his opponent in the balls. - afarrell <wings>

Yep, I have one.  I think we're running low, though.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 21 13:45:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Woah, really?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jul 21 14:16:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Heat Index: 104 F @b(-DANGEROUS-)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jul 21 14:17:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: DANGERTHENA <kaduk>

I,I DANGERESQUE

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:18:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

That's it, I'm applying to Ph.D. programs and quitting industry
forever

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:19:02 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

SRSLY

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:19:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

==

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:19:21 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I thought zephyr was a safe space for arbitrarily harshing
on academia.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:20:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I wasn't disputing that academia sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 21 16:20:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Fri Jul 22 00:27:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Made tempeh tikka masala and something that would have counted as
saag paneer if our food processor was working for eight people (our
apartment + friends). This turned out remarkably well for the first
time I've cooked for a group more than that size (and, well, more
than myself modulo "I'm making pasta, should I boil more pasta for
you?" and that sort of thing). People seemed to like it. I also
seemed to like it.

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Fri Jul 22 00:29:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I basically found the top two or three recipes on Google for chicken
tikka masala and saag paneer and did some reasonable approximation of
what the three of them said to do.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 22 01:13:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

But is it VHFT or UHFT?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 22 01:25:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 22 09:51:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The water at my apartment is inexplicably down.
-> Stata?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:52:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I bet I should be finding some awesome thing to do with namespaces.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:53:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

systemd has a cheap trick that uses them to do a slightly better
chroot.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:53:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I bet I should be running systemd on my laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:55:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Are there even working ubuntu packages yet?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:57:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I dunno, but
a) I bet I want to be building it from source
b) I'm running Debian

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:57:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also, I bet I should be running Fedora rawhide on my laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:57:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm, I should update my laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:58:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Same question for Debian, then. I know some of the DDs are pretty
strongly opposed to systemd, at least as it stands right now.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 12:59:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I do believe boot from systemd will be a reasonable option in Debian,
whether or not it's the standard.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:27:47 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] No, you don't want Fedora Rawhide. Maybe in a VM, but not in
baremetal.

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:29:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But what about BareMetal(TM)?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:30:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Aww, why not?

I'll keep my 7 and Squeeze partitions around.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:30:30 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because rawhide isn't rolling-release.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, it's not intended to be supportable across releases or something?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:09 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's
yes-I-know-this-will-eventually-eat-my-machine-but-I-really-want-bleeding-edge.
As if Fedora wasn't bleeding enough already. I'd recommend F15 and
selectively enable rawhide when you want newness.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> isn't rolling-release
Then it should have a different name!

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Is that how you copulate? <ternus>

geofft, I want to see a Rawhide/"rolling rolling rolling"/rolling release pun-song here, stat

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:38 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> Then it should have a different name!
But it's not a release, at all. It's whatever the newest of everything
is.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:31:59 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Nothing gets tested. Things will break. That's the point.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:32:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It was a joke along the lines of what ternus said, not actually an
argument about the nature of rawhide.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:32:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm fine running untested software. The point is not to be running a
stable rolling release (like aptosid or LMDE or Debian rolling or whatever)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:32:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I've never actually heard that song.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 13:34:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

~broder/drop/authuser/08\ Theme\ From\ Rawhide.mp3

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:16:03 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Is that the Blues Brothers version?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:16:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

ISTR that track 8 of the soundtrack is Rawhide, so most likely.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:18:37 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Haha, not only is there a funroll-loops.info, but it's devoted to
making fun of Gentoo with subheads like "--fuck-upstream".

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:28:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's been around for a while. I don't think it's been updated in a
while, either.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:29:03 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I have this nice 44-line macro over here that's having fun unrolling
loops ...

Class: geofft Instance: drupal
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:43:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Your username is "merlinofchaos"? What is this, mid-'90s AIM?

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Jul 22 14:45:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"The only reason to have an objective on your resume is to fill up the
empty space from not having enough publications"

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 17:56:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I wonder what would happen to the "average" program if each malloc()
mapped (at least) one new page, and each free() unmapped the page

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 17:56:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

so that the hardware would tell you about use-after-free bugs
immediately.

Presumably on 64-bit systems you won't even run out of address space.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:00:58 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Free as in loader <eichin>

doesn't electric fence do exactly that?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:07:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

[+] Found fridge
[?] Looking for leftovers
[-] No leftovers found... trying alternate method
[+] Found pasta sauce
[+] Found vegetables
[+] Found pasta
[+] Boiling pasta
[+] Got d1nn3r

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:07:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:10:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3c44371 Staging: comedi: add dt2811 driver <nelhage>

Yeah, that's how electric fence works.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:10:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That is exactly the capability I want right now, actually

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:10:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 500798d [POWERPC] Remove unused, undocumented #cpus property from cpus node <nelhage>

My understanding is that performance is pretty terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:11:25 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: debugStub.listen.guest32=1 -- (gdb) target remote localhost:8832 <eichin>

there are a couple of clever options (like
returning string allocations subtracted from the end of a page, to
catch overruns which are vastly more common than underruns) but you
can just LD_PRELOAD it and control those from environment variables.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What is this electric fence thing? It's rather un-Google-able

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

A valgrind module, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The reward for a job well done... is another, harder job... <eichin>

no, much older than valgrind.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

try apt-cache show electric-fence 

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:45 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Crunch 'n Munch - because life is sweet and a little crunchy(tm) <eichin>

electric-fence - A malloc(3) debugger

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Aha

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:23:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We Earth people do not do that. <ternus>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Fence

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:29:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Second question: What if you run this under binary translation? Does
that ameliorate any of the performance loss?
Third question: What happen if you change that VM's page size to 4
bytes instead of 4096?

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:30:27 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information wants to be anthropomorphized. <eichin>

does any actual hardware support page sizes that low?

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:31:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

A page size that low wouldn't make sense - the page tables would be
larger than physical memory.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:31:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

eichin: No, but with the power of VMs, you can do anything you set
your mind to!

(Hm, maybe I'm actually thinking of friendship.)

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:33:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

No, you're thinking of VMs. 

Remember, CS is better than everything. Even friendship.

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Wait now I want to make "My Little Kernel"

Class: geofft Instance: broder.ttants
Time: Fri Jul 22 18:34:31 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Kittens, Quality, and Design <eichin>

the power of VMs
the power of VMS

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jul 22 19:03:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's time to try deep frying gravity

Class: geofft Instance: assassins-guild
Time: Fri Jul 22 21:22:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: assassins-guild
Time: Fri Jul 22 21:52:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“But I’ll give you a new taste.”> <xavid>

Is this at "Becoming a GM"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 22:54:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

When do I want to take the GRE?
(This is mostly, should I spend time on prep or should I just get it
over with?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 22:54:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

General or subject?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 22:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It looks like Stanford at least wants both?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:03:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

You can basically take the general test cold.  
(The verbal is exactly like the SAT verbal, except a bit more
difficult.  The math is exactly like the SAT math, except a bit
easier--really.  The writing is...writing.)

You may wish to do a bit of review for the subject test, or not,
depending on how much you care.  

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:04:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

Though you should probably be aware of the *format* of the test--when
I took it it was computerized and adaptive.  I heard it might be
changing soon in some unspecified manner, but don't know details.  

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:04:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yeah, I skimmed the general test instructions. I had to dig up how to
do quantitative comparisns since they'd axed that from the SAT by the
time I took it for real :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:05:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I think it's more differently computerized now.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"The computer-based GRE revised General Test features advanced
technology that allows you to freely move forward and backward
throughout an entire section to change or edit responses, even skip
questions you can come back to later."

http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/about/experience

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:06:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

hunh.  
"I didn't get to backtrack"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:50:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

There's a surprising amount of stuff in this practice CS GRE that I
simply don't know.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:51:11 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Like what?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:51:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Something about CDMA/CS is the current question.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:52:26 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Isn't that... EE?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:52:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I, uh, also seem to have forgotten how heaps work, and which one is
Prim's and which is Kruskal's. <_< >_>
(But that's different from stuff I've never learned)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:52:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:54:17 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Something that made a big impression on me back when I was a young
course 6 student was Kevin Der saying, "holy crap! My grades didn't
matter at all for grad school? It was all about my research? Shit, I
would not have tried so hard at all."

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:54:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

(Story was the same with the GRE, iirc.) That is an incredibly mean
thing to tell an impressionable undergrad.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:55:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"at all" is a bit questionable. I'm kind of worried about my GPA.
"Fortunately I did buckets today and so I can tell everyone I have a
5.0"

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:55:30 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

I think it's like a gating factor? You discard every app with x <
threshold1 and y < threshold2, and then you ignore x and y.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:55:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Right. I would actually have to worry about the gate, if it weren't
for the MEng being magical.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 22 23:56:18 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Anne Hunter -- what a boss.

Class: geofft Instance: rsi
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:02:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

they are so loud

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:04:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Any idea what the relevant gating values are?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:04:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, is MEng GPA what matters for Ph.D. apps and not undergrad?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:07:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

I don't know that the apps make a distinction; I would consider it
highly suspect to not give your undergrad GPA (and they'll get your
transcript anyway).
Though it is nice to take a minuscule hit in undergrad GPA to make the
grad GPA 5.0

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:09:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

yeah, the CS subject test covers nontrivial stuff from a wide range of
CS.  Nothing in it is *really* difficult, but it is generally not
trivial and is broad enough that you generally won't have seen
everything.  
I briefly flipped through CLRS and Sipser before taking it, which
helped since I hadn't seen that stuff in a few years.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:10:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

But "research matters most" is definitely true.  

Class: geofft Instance: rsi
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:16:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Geez, are they doing a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: rsi
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:16:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

They're going back in the cluster. "Which at least insulates them from
me"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:18:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's mostly stuff that would have been covered in a more-textbooky
version of 6.004 that I seem to be losing at.

Class: geofft Instance: rsi
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:35:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... are they singing "I Don't Wanna Miss A Thing" in the cluster?

Class: geofft Instance: rsi
Time: Sat Jul 23 00:37:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

it's a classic

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 01:02:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

_Wow_ I did not do nearly as well as I hoped to on that / that was
harder than I expected.

(took the practice CS subject test)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 01:03:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It was ... fun, though.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 23 01:07:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(I also took longer than the allotted time, but that's 'cause people
kept coming in wanting to use SIPB's scanner)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Jul 23 01:26:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Which of the following statements are true
Which of the following statements are false

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 23 15:17:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> afk

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sat Jul 23 15:27:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Any estimate on when http://www.ksplice.com/software will be back up?

Class: geofft Instance: potter.puppet.pals
Time: Sat Jul 23 17:22:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Is the Flash version of "The Mysterious Ticking Noise" still online?
(Did it ever exist?)

Class: geofft Instance: potter.puppet.pals
Time: Sat Jul 23 17:24:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm, maybe I'm making that up.

Class: geofft Instance: blues-brothers
Time: Sun Jul 24 00:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This movie is like "Transformers", except much better and also a
musical

Class: geofft Instance: blues-brothers
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:00:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

...by that, do you just mean "wanton property destruction,
particularly vehicles"?  

I don't recall there being Illinois Nazis in Transformers.  (Nor
what's-his-face being on a mission from God.)

Class: geofft Instance: blues-brothers
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:02:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

So I skipped past your original zephyr in my browsing, read David's, got
concerned, then read your zephyr which clearly states it's better. Phew.

Class: geofft Instance: blues-brothers
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:17:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

If you liked Blues Brothers, I thought "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"
was another really good entrant in the genre. A little less heavy
on the blues, but only a little.

Class: geofft Instance: blues-brothers
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

dwilson: Yes, exactly.

Megatron is kind of like an Illinois Nazi, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:30:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I wonder what's a good way to prevent kvm guests (unprivileged, using
the user-mode network stack) from sending HM_BOOT

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:31:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... you know, since you can do that without kvm, I'm awfully tempted
to say that the good way is to drop it at the iptables layer, and
moreover to put that iptables rule in debathena-zephyr-config along
with -f

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:34:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also, I need to stop having reasons to read zhm.c before I go mad.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:38:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... Make that any of the zephyr source code

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:54:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... does the qemu user-mode networking code attempt to preserve ports
from the incoming machine?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm
Time: Sun Jul 24 01:54:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

er, s/incoming/guest/

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm.d
Time: Sun Jul 24 02:01:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Huh, the guy who first added 64-bit host support to qemu was...
Gwenole Beauchesne. AKA the guy who wrote nspluginwrapper.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm/zhm.d
Time: Sun Jul 24 02:03:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also, I had no idea that qemu was first a user-progam emulator, and
system-level emulation came much later...

Class: geofft Instance: shadow.i,i
Time: Sun Jul 24 10:03:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

pts ex missingno

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:02:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Build-Derpends: debherper (>= 7.0.50~)

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:05:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think you need a nerf-herder to go with that.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:38:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

why does this bottle of Arizona sweet tea taste... incredibly bitter?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:38:32 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Has it gone bad?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:38:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

That's not right...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:39:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'd be surprised if so? I bought two a couple days ago and put the
second in SIPB's fridge. Do these not have a shelf-life of more than
two days?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:40:05 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They have a long shelf life, but maybe it wasn't exactly new when you
bought it?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:40:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

something's wrong

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:41:18 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: GRIMMET (n.) A small bush from which cartoon characters dangle over the edge of a cliff. <ahailes>

someone's trying to poison you

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:42:10 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Someone's trying to drug him to get him to install some exploits on
linerva.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:42:26 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From:  <afarrell>

Its mad at you for abandoning it and ignoring it to go programming.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:42:51 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Colorless green ideas can has furious sleepage. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

danjared: the polite thing to do is inform geofft and linerva-root of
this vulnerability before making it public.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:43:48 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh, my bad

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 15:44:03 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I,I zero day exploit of geofft

Class: geofft Instance: anna's
Time: Sun Jul 24 16:53:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This is... not how they usually wrap burritos in tinfoil

Class: geofft Instance: anna's
Time: Sun Jul 24 16:53:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Admittedly, neither was whatever they did last week

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jul 24 17:34:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I wonder if running several dialups at once would make
this less painful.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jul 24 17:37:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I like that idea. I wonder what to call them... maybe things like
mint-square, contents-vnder-pressure, buzzword-bingo, biohazard-cafe,
etc.?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jul 24 17:38:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yeah!  And we could run a rotation service in front of them so that
you never get the same dialup twice and you never know which one
you’re going to get!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jul 24 17:41:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Also,

buzzword-bingo
 17:40:44 up 31 days, 23:07, 31 users,  load average: 0.53, 0.35, 0.29
mint-square
 17:40:46 up 6 days,  1:23, 32 users,  load average: 0.24, 0.19, 0.12
biohazard-cafe
 17:40:50 up 39 days, 23:34, 34 users,  load average: 0.23, 0.28, 0.21
scrubbing-bubbles
 17:40:53 up 40 days, 23:08, 35 users,  load average: 0.60, 0.39, 0.30
ten-thousand-dollar-bill
This dialup server is temporarily down for maintainence.  Please log
into another dialup server.  You can do this by connecting to
athena.dialup.mit.edu.

                                        Sorry for the inconvenience,
                                        IS&T Server Operations

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jul 24 17:41:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This is sounding like a better and better idea. Why doesn't MIT run
something like this?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul 24 18:02:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/linerva-announce/2006-August/000000.html

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 06:43:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Is one supposed to apply to on the order of as many schools as one
would apply for undergrad? Fewer? (More?)

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:14:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Ahahaha. "The Developer is the Enemy"

"ABSTRACT

We argue that application developers, while often viewed as allies in
the effort to create software with fewer security vulnerabilities, are
not reliable allies. They have varying skill sets which often do not
include security. Moreover, we argue that it is inefficient and
unrealistic to expect to be able to successfully teach all of the
world's population of software developers to be security experts."

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:25:18 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

Sounds good

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:26:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yeah, it's pretty reasonable. It's just also lulzy.
http://www.ccsl.carleton.ca/paper-archive/wurster-nspw-08.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:37:24 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

My experience is that API developers are also the enemy.  Particularly
if they are security people. :/

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:38:00 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Pet peeve: "exasperated" in place of "exacerbated".

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:40:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, that reminds me, I had a dream last night. There was some crazy
person in the cluster muttering meaningless sentences. Then he got on
zephyr and started zephyring meaningless sentences to all the public
classes at random (and set his :zsender to his full name). There were
some policemen in the cluster, but they didn't really care. Then the
guy started zephyring as root@small-gods. I complained to the
policemen and told them to arrest him, but they got really confused
as to why a computer would be named small-gods and what that means.
Then the guy broke in to my apartment by crawling in through the
window. Then I woke up.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:40:57 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I haven't been in a cluster in years and I definitely did not break
into your apartment.  Otherwise, spot on.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:41:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:41:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No, I'm pretty sure the crazy guy was not you.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:49:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

That's not much of a pet peeve, Greg. Those people are just completely
wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:49:51 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "It was Back in the Day when things were, if not more hardcore, then a lot more alcholic." - ekate <pbaranay>

I hear the number "10" thrown around a lot, with most other numbers
skewing <10 rather than >10. It really depends on your constraints
(Boston area only, particular specializations/sub-disciplines) as
well as, a bit, the strength of your application (stronger applicants
might be able to "get away" with applying to fewer schools) and your
financial situation (app fees).

Unlike undergrad, the problem is that applying to more schools
involves linearly more research of potential faculty, adjustment of
personal statements, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:51:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm, that's true. (Well, undergrad ought to be linear, and there's
stuff like stupid essay prompts or color-the-box, but the constant
factor is perhaps bigger, and in any case you're presumably busy with
actaual research instead of 12th-grade English class)

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:54:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "Clint is the pink lion." - kenclary <jessiehl>

Grad apps are decentralized - there's nothing like the Common
Application, that I'm aware of, where schools come together to have
their apps overlap and reduce the work for applicants.  The other
side of that is that grad apps end up overlapping a lot anyway
because they all require roughly the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:55:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I think _maybe_ one of my undergrad apps used the Common Application

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:55:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "In this post-9/11 world, we can't afford the Designated Hitter rule!" - wtl <jessiehl>

I expect to be way more hosed by fellowship apps than actual grad
program apps.

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:55:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"Oh yeah, I bet I should do that too"

Class: geofft Instance: grad-school
Time: Mon Jul 25 09:56:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "The ARC wants to eat our souls!" - hopp <jessiehl>

If you are interested, I can send you a list of potentially useful
fellowships in personals. :) I have been doing a whole bunch of
research on fellowships.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 25 10:20:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> away

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Mon Jul 25 10:30:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 25 17:15:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Who is this Alana Hamlett person? I feel so out of touch with SAO...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 25 17:17:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I assume she's the person I helped hire. I'm less confident of this than I should be.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 25 17:17:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

she just started a couple weeks ago.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 25 17:18:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

She's the new events person?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jul 25 17:18:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

yeah, she's the pspangle replacement (only 9 or 10 months later...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 25 19:49:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> dinner

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 25 23:38:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 25 23:38:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Today was a good day.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 09:56:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The way that eggs cook in like seconds of hitting the pan still
scares me

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 09:57:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

"If they don't do that, the pan is not hot enough"

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 09:58:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

both sound like good ideas.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 09:59:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:03:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> away for a bit

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:06:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Mark Bittman has this crazy recipe for scrambled eggs involving
letting them cook over very low heat for like half an hour. I think
it's nuts.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:06:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Uh... I haven't read bittman's version of that, but if you do that with
a lot of cream, it is divine.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:09:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

If you triple the cream in Bittman's recipe, it's a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:16:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That's a lot of cream.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:16:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It's less rich than a souffle.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Tue Jul 26 10:17:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

And it's not something you should do everyday, but that consistency of
egg + cream actually makes slow cooking worth it.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 26 14:25:03 2011 Host: LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay I'm running ratpoison!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 26 14:25:14 2011 Host: LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... with gnome!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jul 26 15:11:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The Verisign Angry Birds CA. Now available in your Certificate Store.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 16:17:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/452949/4d934572106ef68e/

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Jul 26 17:13:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Can I call 3-1500 and start singing "Hot and Cold"?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:42:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Cool,
aptitude search '?any-version(~Vdebathena)?any-version(!~Vdebathena)'

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:49:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> The free service for Fedora and Ubuntu appears to still be
> functioning, for now - but who builds a high-availability system on
> those distributions?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:50:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yeah, I mean, people want RHEL for high-availability instead of some
knock-off.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:50:47 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

We definitely don't know anyone who does that.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:51:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hey, scripts is moving towards Fedora on *Debian*.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:51:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: center girls touch 1/4 <kchen>

What does "Fedora on Debian" mean?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:51:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

VMs.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:51:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Xen.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:51:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Fedora for the guests, Debian for the hosts.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What... the....

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, Xe, to be precise.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you talking to us, or?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice.d
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Why does nobody have a product called "Xenception"?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

s/Xe/Xen/.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:52:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

flipflops
flipdogs

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.ksplice
Time: Tue Jul 26 18:54:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

What does "high availability" mean???

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:51:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Forgot to put meat in my sandwich.

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:52:33 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Forgetting everything you knew about FORTRAN is not a bug. -broder <ismith>

That's a whole new level of fail.

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:54:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

They did heat it! They just forgot about it.

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:54:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Maybe I'll go back and ask for it.

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:55:11 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

"Good evening. I'm back.

I'm here for the meat that I left behind."

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 19:55:26 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Fun fact, this is actually the plot of "Terminator 2: Judgment Day."

Class: geofft Instance: verde's
Time: Tue Jul 26 20:15:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Maybe it's a sign.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Jul 27 00:36:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

getoffmylawn
geofftmylawn

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Jul 27 00:47:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This is actually pretty clever.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Jul 27 00:50:13 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

When did you become a verb?

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Jul 27 00:52:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Apparently Monday is rarely the big day.  I think that's the most
surprising to me.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Jul 27 00:53:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Well, and I'm not reproducing that, so.

Class: geofft Instance: 3down
Time: Wed Jul 27 18:30:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: 3down
Time: Wed Jul 27 18:31:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

>  Print Server Changes: All printers previously served off of the
> legacy LPRng print servers have been migrated to CUPS.  Thursday,
> 7/28, the names used for the LPRng print servers will be moved to
> printers.mit.edu (rather than having the old LPRng accept jobs and
> forward them).  Most clients will not notice, but it's possible that
> clients attempting to use LPRng-specific functionality will see
> differing behavior.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:31:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

x0) answer e-mails, do laundry, &c.
x1) thesis
x2) random other coding projects
x3) watch TV or play video games

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:31:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

what do you actually need to do for your thesis?

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:31:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I do have a concrete to-do list for that.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:32:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

I would suggest doing your laundry and then sitting on the washing
machine with your wifi off, working on your thesis.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:32:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

That doesn't really work.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:33:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(I could sync everything to my local machine and download all the
docs and code I need and make sure I didn't break anything in the
sync and don't need anything from the machine I synced from, but
that's a huge and unproductive yak.)

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:35:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

x2) Django-synced kerberos realm and AFS cell!

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:37:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

More seriously, if you're feeling stressed, (x3). Otherwise, (x0) or (x1).

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:38:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

if x3, avoid the news

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:38:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yeah, it would probably be "watch random TV shows I mean to catch up
on"

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:39:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Ooh, does that let me create an ASA.MIT.EDU kerberos realm in addition
to ESP.MIT.EDU?

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Wed Jul 27 20:42:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Probably? But, uh, the ASA DB is only going to have accounts for
Athena users and a couple special system accounts, and it won't have
passwords for the Athena-account-based one, so I don't think you'd
get much out of it...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:21:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Would there be interest in restarting the Non-Resident Students
Association?

From what I can tell, ~fifty years ago when we didn't have nearly the
number of dorms _or_ FSILGs as today and a lot of students were from
the greater Boston area and commuted from home, the NRSA was a group
that advocated for commuters and threw interesting social events for
them and had a bunch of on-campus space (they had an old building next
to McCormick that's now been demolished). It had representation on Inscomm
just like DormCon.

While there are much fewer commuters these days, I feel like the last
few years have seen an increasing number of undergrads move off
campus, and some sort of advocacy body for them might be cool. It
would be differently focused from the old NRSA, and more to people
who live close to campus but not in DFSILGs as opposed to people who
commute from the suburbs (and certainly not to frosh, thanks to
freshmen on campus).

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:22:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://alumweb.mit.edu/groups/515nrsa/intro.htm
is the old group's website (that they created at their 25th reunion
last year, having disbanded in '86)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:23:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Bidentate chelator? But I..." - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

I don't think NRSA captures quite the audience you're going for. (I
feel like Off-Campus is better, but that may be confused/conflated
with FSILGs...)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm open to other names. Call it "Greater Camberville Alliance of
Apartments and Crufthouses" as a working title if it makes you
happier.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:26:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

(But yes, I'm distinctly going for neither folks who commute from
their parents' home in the area, like my apartmentmate did for a
month before he heard we had an opening, nor FSILG folks.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:27:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

MIT Camberville Diaspora

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:31:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Anyway, name aside, is there interest?

Off the top of my head, possible things to do include getting a better
idea of where non-FSILG people live and proposing better SafeRide
routes (or EZride routes/timings, even)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:32:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Tappan Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

isn't this ... GSC?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:33:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

UA Housing working on this some last year, but we were mostly limited
by what info we were able to get out of Housting/the registrar.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:33:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Newton Highlands. <stum>

"also, geofft, why do you want to start another government?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:33:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

and yeah, GSC HCA has an Off-Campus subcomm

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:33:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

stum: There are increasingly more undergrads living off campus

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:34:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Arlington. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

enough to want their own government? also, are you sure that the
actual number is increasing and isn't just, like, more of your
friends?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:34:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

No, I'm not.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:36:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

remeyer: If there's an organization where people join, they can
provide info...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:37:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

stum: Snarky answers aside, this isn't a government, it has nothing
to govern. It's a voluntary association of people who live off campus
to advocate for stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:37:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

like, more voluntary than DormCon. (It'd be individuals joining, not
apartments/houses)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:40:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I think I have seen a lot of people at least mumbling about leaving
campus in the wake of us losing the dining battle, though

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:41:03 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> GSC HCA has an Off-Campus subcomm

off-campus is perennially underrepresented.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:42:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

> If there's an organization where people join, they can provide
info...

just like they don't do for UA elections?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 27 21:44:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

but HCA just managed to get detailed enough address info from someone
to do heat mapping so I'm hoping ua-housing or something will be able to do
the same for undergrads during fall semester.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 28 00:16:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Okay, cool. I guess the answer is just that I personally should pay
more attention to the UA's and GSC's housing committees

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Thu Jul 28 00:21:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Starbucks
Meadhall

I am now the sleepiest instead of the awakest. Oops.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 28 00:36:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 28 14:33:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Way overslept ... was awake at 7, decided that was insufficient, and
forced myself to go back to sleep.

-> shower -> galleria -> paying attention to things

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 16:54:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Border's is closing and has 20+% off on everything. I find myself with
books by Chesterton, Lewis, Augustine, and Wright totaling $64 and
three D&D books totaling $80 (both after discount). Should I buy all
this?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 16:54:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's a lot of money, but it's all stuff I wanted to buy eventually

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 16:54:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cut the Hourglass <kchen>

Do other places like Amazon have a better deal?  (Also, Borders
usually had 30% or 40% off coupons off regular price with some
regularity before, although I assume they're not doing that anymore.)

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 16:55:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The cafe is closed :-(

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 16:57:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I feel like kind of a boor checking Amazon from Border's _while
they're on clearance_ but I think you're right

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:02:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

each D&D book is $5 cheaper on Amazon.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:02:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:02:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

See also why they're going out of business.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:02:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

But local jobs etc etc :(

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:02:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm unconvinced that's cheaper enough to not buy it here, although
admittedly it doesn't matter any more

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:04:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Parallelogram In Roll Circulate <kchen>

In my experience, bookstores generally sell books at list price
(well, except Borders has those coupons), and Amazon doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:04:44 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Community considered harmful <aatharuv>

The last time I looked into a Border's closing sale (in Calilfornia,
admittedly, and I have amazon Prime),between the taxes, the lower
prices at amazon.com, and the time I would have spent in line, that it was
not worth it to buy from them.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:06:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, Amazon seemed to be list or below when I was last doing price
comparisons. This has the unfortunate property that even the 10%
going out of business sale on sci-fi books was probably going to give
an at-best marginal price advantage to Borders, given the tax
discrepancy.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:13:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I've gone to two Borders closing sales (Galleria and Copley), and
given that I wasn't really looking for anything specific, even the 20%
sale didn't really do anything for me.  The stuff I vaguely considered
buying would probably be at least as cheap online, and given that I am
in general fine with buying used, I have a skewed view of how much I'm
willing to pay for books

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:13:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why is there still a ton of natty version skew in production?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:13:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And how the hell are there two versions of machtype for all distros?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:13:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

er, mix

Class: geofft Instance: buyp
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:32:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Three of the books ended up cheaper from Border's than Amazon (not
counting tax, and I was already there since I was planning on tooling
there), so I bought those. I'll get the N.T. Wright and D&D stuff
later.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:33:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Glenn Beck has a modern English translation of the Federalist Papers.
I think I might actually respect him for this.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:33:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is it actually...accurate?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:33:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

The Federalist Papers *are* in modern English (well, at least Modern
English).

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:34:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

==glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:34:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==
I'd expect it to be something like "Lolz, Obama sucks, Love A-Ham"

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:34:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

Also, I love the linguistic style of the Federalist Papers.
It is so delightfully bombastic!

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:34:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

Modern English != modern English

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:35:15 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

But was his translation divinely inspired?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:35:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

!= that new wave band

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:35:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd also ==danjared, afarrell; we read some of the Federalist Papers
in high school and they were entirely comprehensible without
interpretation.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:35:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

dwilson: lolenglish

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:36:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

!= glasgall
I think my classmates in HS mostly found the style
of them to be obtruse and needlessly verbose.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:36:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I flipped through it briefly and it didn't look unreasonable. It was
certainly no Eugene Peterson translation of the Bible. (If anything, I
worry that it wasn't particularly much work, and mostly a couple of
archaic spellings fixed.) I don't know if he translated words to words
with different connotations, I managed to buy neither it nor his
science fiction thriller _The Overton Window_, about a maniacal evil
group of liberals trying to twist the minds of a good conservative
populace in a country that's an allegory of modern America.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:37:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Okay, so there is a difference between Modern English and the stuff that
modern illiterate people speak. This may be rather prescriptivist.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:37:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I don't think the federalist papers really need to be made
accessible to modern readers. Maybe this makes me a bad
Protestant.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:37:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:37:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

Though there was a small group of girls who
swooned over Alexander Hamilton.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:38:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

So, did all he do is convert all the long s's to modern s's?

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:40:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I want the rap version of the Federalist Papers. Maybe someone can get
Eminem on that.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:41:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

or T-paine

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:42:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Nah, Eminem in a wig.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:42:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

I honestly don't see Eminem doing that kind of thing.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:43:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

I think this would be a branch of nerdcore honestly.

Class: geofft Instance: buyp.d
Time: Thu Jul 28 17:47:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who has not solved the halting problem. <afarrell>

Or talk to the people who do Keynes vs. Hayek?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:52:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I wish K-9 were not clearly inferior to alpine in ConnectBot :-(

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:54:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

gmail is the once and future best mail client on android

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:54:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

not K9 or kaiten?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:54:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

long live king gmail

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:55:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

I've actually never used K9 though I've been meaning to

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:55:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

My impression is Kaiten just adds tablet support, not "it sends and
receives mail better" support.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:56:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Jesse has said some things that suggest that there are
other enhancements.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:56:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

My problems are that it seems to have a lot of trouble syncing
message bodies quickly and only reliably gets me headers, and a lot of
trouble sending mail quickly. I suspect at some point in the next few
hours my mail might end up getting delivered.

This behavior is fine for "I'm offline and dealing with mail
occasionally", but not for "I'm replying from mail on my phone while
I commute, then going back to a real client"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:57:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This confuses me, because it's not like the mail has large
attachments. It's all text. If I just ported mail(1) and a nice MTA
from the late '80s to my phone, that would suffice.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:57:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... maybe I should do that.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:58:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:58:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"maybe you should work on your thesis"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:58:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's from the late '80s. It's got to be able to compile anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:59:23 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

that would be great.  now all the power and convenience of mh with
the porability of a phone!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:59:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

yes!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 18:59:48 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I K&R.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 19:01:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is K-9 a better Gmail client than the Gmail client?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 20:45:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

No. Definitely.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Jul 28 21:11:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Wait, in response to?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 28 21:57:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I should probably get lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 28 21:58:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Dude, I had *second* lunch, like, five hours ago.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Jul 28 23:49:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/swBDg.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: colbert.mq
Time: Fri Jul 29 00:22:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"Dear Colbert Super PAC Members and Electoral Uruk-hai,"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 00:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> Chicago Pizza

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Fri Jul 29 00:58:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The one thing I really, really, really like about perl is perldoc.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:07:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

There is this drunk Asian woman here with a short dress accompanying a
guy with a mustache and greased hair. It's like they're trying to be
stereotypes.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:08:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

Huh. I... don't think I know these stereotypes.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:08:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not really sure _what_ stereotypes they are.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:09:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

But they have some ineffable ... the same quality that a bro has when
his collar is as popped as could be and when a hipster is listening to
the obscurest band as should be.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:10:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

mm.

Class: geofft Instance: chicago-pizza
Time: Fri Jul 29 01:18:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

There are lots of drunk people here now. It's amusing... one of the
people got confused at the pictures of Turkey on the walls and asked
if they make Turkish pizza.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 05:12:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

At this point it's not really worth going to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: flamebait
Time: Fri Jul 29 05:20:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://nwc.co/

It's like SIPB, but it doesn't do anything, and so it has no
politics, and so it's cooler. SIPB should stop doing projects and
just turn into a tooling space/community for personal (or group, but
not "SIPB") coding projects.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 05:57:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Augh. Google Code Search says there is only one user ever of the API I
want to use

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 06:03:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also, why is the Debian build stuff all written in Perl :(

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 06:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I would object less if it were pretty Perl instead of a hairy pile of
Perl and yak fur.

Class: geofft Instance: flamebait
Time: Fri Jul 29 07:42:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> it has no politics

I doubt that.  It's a community where people spend a lot of time
together.  That puts enough at stake that politics is natural.

Class: geofft Instance: flamebait
Time: Fri Jul 29 07:48:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm, it looks like it may have a single person who runs it and can make
unilateral decisions, though.  That can cut out a lot of politics, when
that person is skilled enough to stay firmly in control.

Class: geofft Instance: flamebait
Time: Fri Jul 29 07:48:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But not the same proposition as "not doing anything", and equally rich in
downsides.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 08:58:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> shower -> handing over all SIPB services to jdreed since he seems
to like maintaining them so much

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 08:59:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 09:00:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I don't think I ever expressed a desire to maintain anything.  Anything
you hand over other than, like, Scripts, will be phased out

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 09:01:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i   linerva deconfigure in-favour athena.dialup

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 29 09:51:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

xsbc: A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and experimental Debian
control fields.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Fri Jul 29 09:52:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:17:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Should I expect a Rubbermaid tupperware container to be
microwave-safe? (It's not marked, it seems)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:17:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

it is disposable or meant for reuse?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:18:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The latter

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:18:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It should be microwave safe.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:18:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes, but it will be pitted if you heat something with a lot of oil

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:22:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8800eea [PATCH] ia64: move move_irq() from iosapic.c to irq.c <nelhage>

Is getting flooded with comment-spam.

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Not surprised. I don't have a good way to programatically deal, and I
got bored every time I decided to click through all of the three
thousand comments using the fancy slow AJAX interface and delete them

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

You can easily issue some MySQL commands to zap them

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Then go install Akismet and NoSpamNX

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I also want to see if anyone left any legitimate comments, mostly.

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Just set the flag to moderate them by default

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:23:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

geofft: Right, so like, pick a few keywords and delete comments
containing those.

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:24:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I did, they have working trackbacks so it gets overridden

Class: geofft Instance: flamebait
Time: Fri Jul 29 10:34:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b1f1b8c nilfs2: fix preempt count underflow in nilfs_btnode_prepare_change_key <nelhage>

I bet the $300/mo membership fee also has a significant effect on the
dynamics.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 29 11:33:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Helped a guy with git on Windows for a whhile. This is way more than I
ever knew about git on Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 29 11:33:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It's kind of pretty. You can, like, click on commits and say "check
out" and stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 29 11:35:30 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Boo, linguists are supposed to know everything! -pbaranay <ismith>

It doesn't totally suck?  That's good to know.  For some reason my
boss, normally an OS X user, wanted to know how to set up his github
account on a windows machine.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 29 11:35:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Well, you can always right click and pick "Git Bash" from the context
menu.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jul 29 11:36:20 2011 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Your mouth is not a substitute for an IV -austein <ismith>

Cute.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 13:48:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> N42^WE17

Class: geofft Instance: lion.kerberos
Time: Fri Jul 29 14:07:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

So why doesn't the Kerberos Extras just overwrite the broken library
with a fixed one?

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.the-new-guy.q
Time: Fri Jul 29 14:32:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"I've heard more grousing about printing than I have in my entire
life."

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Jul 29 14:38:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"I don't know how many cosmic radiation incidents we had with Athena
9, but I don't recall any."

Class: geofft Instance: else.moira
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:07:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I feel like I should be helping test update_server on tyger, but I
get root instance tickets there and I'm always vaguely skeptical of
network services that involve replacing arbitrary files on your
machine, specifically authentication-sensitive ones if it's working
right

Class: geofft Instance: else.moira
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:08:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Enh, sms could do evil things to you in other ways.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:15:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... does equivs not support Breaks?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:16:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Nope

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:16:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:16:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

sub write_control_file {
  my ($builddir, $control) = @_;
  open OUT, '>', "$builddir/debian/control" or
    die "Cannot open $builddir/debian/control for writing: $!\n";

  print OUT control_fields($control,
                           "Source",
                           "Section",
                           "Priority",
                           "Maintainer",
                           "Homepage",
                           "Build-Depends",
                           "Standards-Version");
  print OUT "\n";
  print OUT control_fields($control,
                           "Package",
                           "Architecture",
                           "Pre-Depends",
                           "Depends",
                           "Recommends",
                           "Suggests",
                           "Conflicts",
                           "Provides",
                           "Replaces",
                           "Description");
  close OUT;
}

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:16:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

How is this not a bug?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:16:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Sounds like it is a bug

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:17:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Debian bug #571638

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:18:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Seriously, ignoring the most recent update, the next three updates
were all NMUs? the most recent by the DPL??

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 29 16:45:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 02:07:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Sat Jul 30 08:00:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

GameTeX needs better internal docs.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Sat Jul 30 08:09:51 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

"as long as ken is immortal, I think we're just supposed to send bug
reports to him"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jul 30 09:50:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2011/07/gay-catholic-and-doing-fine.html

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:29:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Did I fall asleep?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:29:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"For a little while"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:29:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Can I go now?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:30:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, I need you to reply to the mail I'm about to send to release-team

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:30:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(I need to push r25329 to production ~now for the reasons detailed in
the mail I just sent)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:31:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, i can deal with this

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:31:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, you're here.  

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:32:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Actually, two approvals are technically needed for an override anyway

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 12:32:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 30 13:03:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I can look this afternoon if Geoff doesn't beat me to it.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 30 17:58:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

http://www.libyanspider.com/services/lydomains/words_end_with_ly-list.php

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 30 18:00:49 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Ooh, ooh, I've got dibs on electroencephalographical.ly!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 30 18:02:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I'm sad they don't list pseudepigraphical.ly

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 30 18:07:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ cat /mit/rsi/curyear
2011
tyger:~ geofft$ cat /mit/rsi/curyear_2010
2010

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sat Jul 30 18:07:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, what if the current year when it was 2010 was value other than
2010

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sat Jul 30 18:17:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Mary's mob, in 15 minutes, at Mary's

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Jul 30 20:25:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

"Don't Phragment My Heart", by the Black IPs

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 31 15:35:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Boston Common Coffee Co is a really nice space. But I forgot my
charger and didn't charge my laptop, so I just sat there reading.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jul 31 15:37:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: kwality
Time: Sun Jul 31 18:09:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

commit fddba30d74856e2d5c3f287343569fc259729bc0
Author: Raphaël Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>
Date:   Sun Apr 3 14:58:06 2011 +0200

    dpkg: fix regression when using -R option
    
    The regression was introduced in commit
    280ac914cc52ee5de079c0833bb1df5005c1e7ab. The variable used for the loop
    got incremented twice for each iteration, the net result is that the list
    of filenames contains random data on half of the entries.
    
    Reported-by: Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:00:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Why is tmpfs in mm/shmem.c instead of, like, fs/tmpfs/

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:01:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

IIRC, because it's not a real filesystem?

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:01:35 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It's rather a set of hooks into the caching mechanism.

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:03:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Well, sure, but you can mount it, it has file ops structures, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:04:09 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I mean, yes, I agree, it would be less surprising for it to be with all the
other filesystems.

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:04:53 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

But since it is a clever hack over the caching mechanism, I see why they left
it with all the other memory management stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: augh
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:09:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Right, and I guess it started off as implementing /dev/shm/, so
mm/shmem.c made sense then, and then people were like "hey this is
useful"

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:14:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hey -c geofft, recommendations for VPSes?

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:15:56 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

My friend runs beyondhosting.net - which I use.

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:23:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I would just use HCoop if I could find a reasonable way to get more
than 1 GB disk space.

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:24:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

HCoop uses AFS, so running my own AFS cell is possible, but is
strictly more effort than running my own server with local disk, so t
defeats the point.

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:30:41 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I continue to be happy with linode.

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:30:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Portland (OSCON) 7/25-29. <tibbetts>

I think they are more expensive these days, but their
customer service has always mad eme happy.

Class: geofft Instance: vps
Time: Sun Jul 31 19:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm. Linode is $20/month for 20 GB disk, which is not unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 31 21:58:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Well, I'm certainly glad that wasn't a kernel bug

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 31 21:58:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It doesn't mean there still isn't one!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 31 22:00:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, you're right. Let me go read all of the kernel VFS code and prove
that there are no races or anything, gimme a minute or two

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Jul 31 22:08:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

i,i binfmt_xdgopen

Class: geofft Instance: hotline
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:14:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Is it Replace All The Chairs day?

Class: geofft Instance: hotline
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:14:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It is

Class: geofft Instance: hotline
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:15:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I saw a big IS&T van with chairs outside 26

Class: geofft Instance: hotline
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:15:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

DITR's stockroom ins in 26.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.eip
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:38:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Man, so many good ideas for what to file as ticket #1000

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.eip
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:39:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Maybe I'll pick the top three and file them as #999 to #1001.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.eip
Time: Mon Aug  1 15:41:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hury up, otherwise I'll just file a boring one

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:47:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Should I be doing/testing something else or should I go work on my
thesis?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:47:40 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

These!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:48:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Did qs-2 succeed?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:48:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Looks like yes.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:48:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

W-A-THORNHUMP-III:~ geofft$ athinfo quickstation-2 version
debathena-cluster on Ubuntu 11.04

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:48:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Also why is thornhump in all caps?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:49:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because dns.cgi uppercases everything.  File a ticket if you want to
bikeshed about it, but give me a compelling reason please.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:49:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(Note that the reason for the current behavior is "Because that
emulates the stock alternate installer")

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:51:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

We lower-case everything two lines later, I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:53:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

And the hostname passed to the stage2 is lowercase (I checked this)...
I think the stage2 is canonicalizing it

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 17:53:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So go blame upstream?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  1 18:32:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The one thing I miss about VMware was their PXE infrastructure

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug  1 21:04:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... I just typed "git up"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug  1 21:04:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Space pope is nothing but a pale shadow of heresy; Aquapope is the light!" - manayach <pbaranay>

Problems, you have.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug  1 21:06:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Huh. Oneiric tasksel includes, in addition to "Audio generation and
editing suite" and "Video generation and editing suite", "Tone
generation and editing suite". Wat?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug  1 21:22:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Tag: field::linguistics, made-of::font, role::app-data,
use::typesetting, works-with::text, works-with-format::tex

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug  1 21:23:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

This font is MADE OF FONT

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:13:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

ldpreload.com

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:13:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

nice

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:13:34 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Your resume 404's.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:14:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Hm. So it does.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:15:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

fixed. I should also rerender the PDF, I guess

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:16:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4b89eed Write back inode data pages even when the inode itself is locked <nelhage>

Nice

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:17:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I should also set things up so that mail to geofft@ldpreload.com goes
to me. I guess... postfix is what I want?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:18:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

spock:/mit/blue-sun/mail_scripts broder$ cat procmailrc 
:0
* ^TO_(broder|evan|root|postmaster|webmaster)@blue-sun-corp.com
! broder@mit.edu

[...other forwards...]

EXITCODE=67
HOST

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:18:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh, I guess that works too

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:20:28 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Wanted: A blessed wand of social engineering <aatharuv>

Is procmail actually an email server these days? -- it used to be just
a mail filter/forwarder back when I used it.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:20:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a local delivery agent. The MTA invokes it and it decides where
to put mail.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:21:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

scripts invokes procmail from postfix

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:21:12 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unconnected node. <aatharuv>

So you'll still need postfix/sendmail/whatever to invoke it then.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:21:19 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

Oh, cool

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:22:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though I will note that I'm in the market for a good, simple,
cloud-friendly mail list solution

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:22:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Cloud-friendly?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:22:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I want to point a domain's MX at someone else and make it their problem

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:23:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Does it need list support, or just email?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:23:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

List, though I might accept just forwarding as a stop-gap

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:04 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

dreamhost does a reasonable job running mailman for me, but
they charge $9/mo unless you are a nonprofit.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:23 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: a little mouse, with gloves and a parka on, just waiting for the light to go out <eichin>

I'm still happy wth fastmail.fm as outsourced mail

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I kind of don't want the configuration overhead of mailman. I'm
really looking for something much closer to "moira for the internet"

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 662ae21 sh: Fix PTRACE_PEEKTEXT/PEEKDATA fallout from generic_ptrace_peekdata(). <nelhage>

Yeah, Dreamhost does a decent job for us. I have an allergy to
mailman, but no one's done anything better.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:46 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

You should write it, since there is still not anything
better.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:24:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:25:20 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

In fact, I think it is over 8 years since I decided I ought
to write it, and then flaked, so I'm happy to hand that
responsibility off.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:26:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I talked about this with gdb. I would probably try to build it on
top of Send Grid or similar, since they are good at getting mail to the
endpoint, but I would be worried about mail from one of my users
causing my entire service to get classified as a spammer

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:27:49 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Oh, I would suggest building software that fills the same
niche as mailman, not creating a web service for running
mailing lists, there are already several of those.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:27:57 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Eleanor Velasco Thornton <eichin>

is Lamson this pony, or just the rope to build it?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:28:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I generally prefer to be out of the business of hosting infrastructure

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:28:26 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

lamson might be some rope.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:26:56 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

dyldinsertlibraries.com wouldn't be the same

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:30:27 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

editing /etc/aliases scales surprisingly far when it's
only for your own purposes

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:30:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:31:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Still requires me to host infrastructure

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:34:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Is there any reason for me to sign up for GAFYD when I won't be using
Gmail and when all my friends who use GAFYD tend to just complain
about it and not use Google+?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:35:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What are you using for your mail?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:36:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<They advanced; she dropped low, and spun, and swept their feet out from under them.> <xavid>

If your domain is just a vanity domain, I wouldn't do it unless you
want Jabber or mail.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:38:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

cop car parked outside N42 playing freecell on the laptop

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem.d
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:39:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I want it to eventually be maildir synced between my laptop, a server,
and maybe some reasonable cloud backup. For now I just want it to
forward to MIT

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:43:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I like how everyone else wants a stupid nerdy domain now

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:43:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Cool, I'm not part of everyone.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:44:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I've concluded I don't particularly.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:44:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I have enough trouble spelling out innocuous.org or
aletta.net for people.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:45:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

People tend to get confused by the "s" in dehnerts.com. :(

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:46:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I didn't even think of getting a domain with my name in it. It would
have just ended in tears every time I tried to tell people it.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:47:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Well, either tears or one L.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:47:13 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I haven't yet hated dehnerts.com, besides the "s" issue. I guess I
don't have the glassgall or glasgal issue.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:47:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I hate you, Milkman Geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:47:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:48:04 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

glasgall++

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:48:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...has Red Meat really passed out of internet culture?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:48:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

==adehnert

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:48:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I have no idea what that is, so I'm going to guess "yes".

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:50:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, New Englishman and Twinkie <afarrell>

yea, I'm totally confused.
The closest connection I can make to "milkman"
has to do with adultery.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:51:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Really?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  1 22:51:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Meat

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:23:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Google Apps.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:23:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Is the best.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:23:44 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

No, Waseem, that's Google Maps.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:23:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

well, that too

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:23:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Man, remember Mapquest? Good times.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:25:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, New Englishman and Twinkie <afarrell>

oh man, I remember teaching a WWII and Israeli Independence
veteran how to use the internet and they found Mapquest much
easier to use than google maps.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:40:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

What does it do?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:40:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Like, I suspect I only want it to have a Google identity, and I'm not
sure _why_

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:43:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Oh, I'm just a big believer in not running your own infrastructure,
because it's just going to be a hassle for you. And it's super-easy
to set up.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:44:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Meh. I like playing with infrastructure

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:44:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

(Yes, this is a philosophical issue as much as it is a technical
issue.)

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:44:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Sure, fair enough.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:45:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Do you just use it for mail?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:48:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Well, admittedly, our use case is different - as you already know, we
use it at Ksplice for mail and calendar and internal mailing lists.

I just use Gmail for my own personal mail and calendaring.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:49:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Right. I have Gmail (and don't use it) and Gcal (and do) -- I'm not
sure if GAFYD buys me anything, unless free GAFYD Gcal does
coolerthings than regular Gcal

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:51:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

No, it doesn't. It's the exact same (or maybe just a little worse).

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Mon Aug  1 23:59:42 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Everything I've heard implies that for everything's that both in normal google
accounts and GAFYD, the GAFYD version is less loved.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:05:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

*sigh* I hate aptitude

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:05:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Don't we all.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:06:35 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The object pushes back at you.
 <rnjacobs>

what now?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:06:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

aptitude build-dep debathena-moira-config tells me that it can't
satisfy the build-dep on libncurses-dev, despite libncurses5-dev,
which Provides it, being installed

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:08:06 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I'm watching you.  -- The Wizard of Yendor
 <rnjacobs>

...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:22:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

grrrr

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:28:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I need Python 2.7?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:28:58 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Fedora 15!

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:31:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

My NFS server broke with Python 2.6. (Terrifying sentences, partial
list.)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:31:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Aren't those generally in-kernel?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:32:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Generally.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:32:11 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I hope this one isn't?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:32:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But but but Bad Ideas in Kernelspace!

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:32:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

The standard Python distribution has an xdrlib module:
http://bugs.python.org/issue9696

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:32:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

It turns out that bad ideas in userspace are much easier to keep
typesafe.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:33:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

typesafe, schmypesafe

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:33:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Not … if you write them in Python.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:33:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Python

> typesafe

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:33:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:34:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"My kernel programming experience involved way more type-safety than
my userspace experience has."

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:34:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Okay, "typesafe" is the wrong word. "Stupid-buffer-overflow-safe" is
closer. I guess I could rewrite this in Scala.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:35:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

<3 Scala

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:35:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Oh hai.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:36:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

I have actually been working through ScalaByExample.pdf during
downtime of late. It's a pretty cool language.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:41:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Sigh, I guess I should work around this locally instead of declaring
"lol you can't use this with Python 2.6". Even though this _is_
academia

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:41:33 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How did it break? I thought 2.6 was a feature release on 2.5

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:42:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, I thought it worked on 2.7 but not 2.6, not 2.5 but not 2.6?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:42:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

One standard library used another standard library in a way that was
API-incorrect, but happened to work in 2.5. Then at some point the
API started throwing exceptions when you didn't follow its spec.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:42:55 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm assuming it worked in 2.5, because geofft likes Debian and until
recently it only had 2.5, and he said 2.6 breaks it.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Then they fixed the calling code in 2.7

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:43:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can you get them to backport the patch? (Does Python do bugfix releases?)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:43:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Well, hm. I was doing this on opus, which has 2.6. I might have
another bug.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:44:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 02:57:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: DERPATHENA <geofft>

... Oh, did I just... not implement half of this code?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Aug  2 03:03:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Aug  2 03:04:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Anyway, I guess I said I'd be at a meeting at 10, so, -> sleep maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  2 03:36:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

-> sleep no rly

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 08:43:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Great, Canonical's General Counsel is subscribed to my bug.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  2 09:00:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

-> shower -> W20

Class: geofft Instance: putty
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:04:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

PuTTY on Linux is really weird.

Class: geofft Instance: putty
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:05:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... it makes itself look like an xterm.

Class: geofft Instance: putty
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:06:00 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Not *quite*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:19:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

-> Stata

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:31:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

The Vostros in Stata are all blinking their hard disk activity light
once per second, synchronized with each other. It's kind of eerie

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:32:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

are they... working?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:32:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(I wonder if this means something is going to disk every second, and
they're synchronized within NTP)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:32:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:32:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, that reminds me, I need to fix the stupid hostname layout there

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:32:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Incidentally, did you test Natty on the Vostros?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:33:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:33:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... do you want me to kick off an install?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:33:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

One sec.  

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:33:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why did cruella-de-vil not take it?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:35:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Well, let me know if you want me to do something

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:40:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...hrm.... shit

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:40:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It reboots and just leaves the plymouth logo on the screen looking
like it ran out of its colormap

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:40:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think I need --reset-vga or something?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:41:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's unclear from the manpage if --reset-vga is passed at -l or -e?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:43:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We so need better hardwar support

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:43:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I'd pass it at -e.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:44:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

The logo on the screen being discolored isn't necessarily indicative
of kexec failing. I've seen that happen on working kexecs (a while
back, possibly on Jaunty on the clusters?).

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:44:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yeah, but I never get to see the installer?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:44:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Does the installer work if you boot without kexec?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:45:05 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm sure that works fine, but uh, we need auto-upgrade

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:51:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, it scrambles the screen, but it's working

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:51:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm going to leave it and see what happens, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:53:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I wonder if they need vga=whatever?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:53:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

That's without kexec, and it really doesn't work with kexec?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:53:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Haven't tried without kexec, yet.  Want to see what's going on

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:54:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Oh, okay. That's better

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:54:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, wait, it fell off the network.  Hrm

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:57:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Wait that sounds awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Tue Aug  2 11:58:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

https://lists.csail.mit.edu/pipermail/csail-related/2011-August/006082.html

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:02:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK, the actually install worked (though the Vostros have a more
aggressive PXE timeout than the 790s.  I think I blame Realtek).
Rather, it kexec'd to stage2 with no problem.  I think I need
--reset-vga here, or I need to pass reboot=warm?  I'll experiment.  If
we have to run around and install 6 Vostros, it's not the end of the
world

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:04:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

You know, if we burned iPXE onto our network cards...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:05:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, debathena-geofft-grub-installer-config is not wrong here

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:05:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Isn't that amb's fault? Or did I give him the idea?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:05:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(hackboot)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:05:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because you can tell modern grub "Use this entry for one time only"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:05:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, this is #943, which is totally your thing

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:06:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And which I'm ostensibly working on

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:06:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Debathena #943

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d Opcode: auto
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:06:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/ticket/943 <debothena>

Debathena ticket 943: GRUB menu option to run the installer

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:09:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Can I do something stupid with a serial console?  Does SIPB have a
DB9<->DB9 null-modem cable?

Class: geofft Instance: putty
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:10:29 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why... are you using PuTTY on Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: putty
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:11:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I wanted to see what the menus looked like

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:11:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

We have sufficient null modemry to make one of those.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 12:11:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(You're also welcome to use the VT100 or VT320, which is probably
easier)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:07:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> VT100 or VT320, which is probably easier
What kind of crack are you smoking?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:07:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

The tasty kind!

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:15:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

past geofft, you suck

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:16:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:17:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I have to go through and rearchitect all his code

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 14:19:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's such a great feeling, when you look at code, and think "Who
wrote this crap?" and then you look in the changelog...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  2 15:17:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

-> lunch -> SIPB -> IS&T

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:20:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Whoa, you can _turn off_ the framebuffer

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:20:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

echo 0 > /sys/class/vtconsole/vtcon1/bind

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:20:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

It falls back to vtcon0, which is your text-mode console

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:20:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What does that mean? It reverts to VGA?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:21:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

/how does it correctly reset back to VGA?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:22:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Uh, "poorly", in this case.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:22:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(Our current failure seems to be that inteldrmfb kexecing to vga16fb
doesn't work, in the sense that it boots fine but the video display
is lost, but vga16fb kexecing to vga16fb does)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:25:35 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

isn't vga16fb the awful VGA graphics mode framebuffer?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:29:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

It's what Natty uses on this hardware, apparently. Lucid uses
inteldrmfb.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:29:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I... o_O `vbetool post`
I recommend not running that command.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:29:39 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Gods look down their noses at demigods.
 <rnjacobs>

Sounds like a bug.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:29:55 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: you are the chick at the center of an egg, unable to get past your own
pitifully thin shell to touch those around you. - io
 <rnjacobs>

er, "using vga16fb instead of anything else sounds like a bug"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:30:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Maybe? I guess to clarify, by "Natty" I mean debian-installer

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:30:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

and by "Lucid" I mean an actual Lucid system.
(We're kexecing debian-installer to upgrade machines)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 16:30:59 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that collapsing a dungeon often creates a panic.
 <rnjacobs>

Oh, hm.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:18:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

A flock of Asian tourists descended upon the Stata quickstations.
Their leader pointed to one of them and started talking about "Assena"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:19:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Tell me Stata isn't a tourist attraction.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:19:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is it me, or have there been a ton more tourists in the past 2 week.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:19:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

There were three simultaneous tours in front of W20 when I left this
morning.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:19:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can't walk down the Infinite without dodging people taking pictures
of bulletin boards

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:19:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

==, that happened today.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:20:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I had the odd experience of taking pictures of bulletin boards to
catalog board usage for ASA and having random tourists decide they
wanted to take pictures of the boards too.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:20:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I understand MIT being famous and all, but I can't envision "Hrm, I'm
visiting this school, let me take pictures of random doors and posters
for student groups"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:20:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can understand pictures of Killian or 77

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:20:46 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Say, mister ASA man, you wanna yell at people for blatantly taking
over the alumni association board in the building 10 elevator lobby?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 17:20:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<He would strike at her then, and she would marvel at how well she blocked him, without even spilling the sodas she so carefully prepared.> <xavid>

We had an interesting time getting tourists out of 26-100 for Hunger
Games wrapup.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:14:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... Wait, why is their power management code for the virtual ttys?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:16:06 2011 Host: WINTERMUTE.MIT.EDU
From: Cherts Heir Pill Mr Pro <cmerrill>

There's a fun story about how my laptop could correctly handle backlight
brightness in a virtual tty but not in X.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:24:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I wonder what a tonal dialog box would be.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:26:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

A window with a on-map event that plays with /dev/audio?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:34:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

ATL would be kind of an awesome place to have a SIK game. The
terminals are connected by long escalators to a long, straight tunnel

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

"Alternatively, someone should make Killian Court look like Blood
Gulch."

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:36:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Cast Off 3/4 <kchen>

I feel like you'd want more ways to get around, rather than only
having one path to get from one point to another.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:37:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

That's what the people-mover-thing is for.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:37:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Very Center Boys Trade <kchen>

people-mover vs non-people mover?  You're essentially on the same
path, though, so if you're trying to avoid people, you'd encounter
them anyway.  Oh wait, do you mean the trains, rather than the moving
walkways?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:37:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Yeah, the trains.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:38:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I can't decide if the moving walkways would be fun, or just a huge
injury risk because people would keep trying to jump off / on them

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:42:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are we talking Halo? That has trains?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:42:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

No, we're talking Hartsfield-Jackson.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:42:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

But yes, Halo has trains. Have you played the Halo 2 map "Terminal"?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:43:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(Or really, the opening sequence of Halo 2 campaign)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:43:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, this wasn't about turning Killian into Blood Gulch.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Aug  2 18:43:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't remember it?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:18:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

AUGH WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME TO PUT -1 INTO AN UNSIGNED INT

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:18:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

this is the worst RFC ever.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:18:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cut The Diamond <kchen>

I assume it wants -1, and not the maximum int value?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:19:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  19:19  (*)
    FINE I'LL WRITE WOMBAPTITUDE

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:19:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Well, my code is running out of memory because it's trying to allocate
2^32-1 bytes

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:20:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

To clarify, geofft was strongly implying I should do things with
aptitude (and schroot but there were no obvious jokes there) because
they're in C++.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:20:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Dude. Eats, schroots and leaves.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:20:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Yeah, but that's much harder to put into a command name.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:21:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Also, I've made that joke before:
blanche waverly-root -i

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:23:30 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Still not sure how you would use aptitude on a womb.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:24:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:26:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Jesus and Nicodemus debugging their Debian server:
"Truly I tell you, unless this package be reinstalled, it will not
work."
"But how can a package be reinstalled when it is already installed?
Can it go back into its mother's wombaptitude?"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:27:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

\ l d o t s { }

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:28:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

In the previous chapter, Mary tries to run a Windows program on
Linux, and so Jesus installs wine.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:28:36 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A helicopter has crashed here.
 <rnjacobs>

＼ｌｄｏｔｓ｛｝

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:36:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug  2 19:39:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

ttants: wombat, womb

Come on, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:02:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

-> dinner

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.2009.minutes.q
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:08:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

jesstess: Well I think its fabulous. Please remember the little
          people when you guys are world-famous.
keithw: ... with shares! Please remember the little people
        with shares.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.2009.minutes.q
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:10:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who should not be on zephyr <afarrell>

I remember this!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.2009.minutes.q
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:14:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ha.  Those requests worked out!

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:34:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Just threw away SIPB's constitution. (I got tomato sauce on it, I'll
print another)

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:38:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SCULLET (n.) The last teaspoon in the washing up. <ahailes>

why do you have a printed copy?

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:39:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

SIPB has a printed copy on the bulletin board. I was looking at it
yesterday for the meeting and forgot to put it back on the board

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:39:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... How did you get tomatoe sauce on it? ANd assuming the answer is
"I was reading it while eating", why?

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:40:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I didn't notice that it was something important before putting my
sandwich down and unwrapping it and the wrapper was covered in tomato
sauce

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:42:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Really it's not such a bad idea to recycle and reprint the constitution
every now and then.  Just in case someone forgot to do so the last time
it was changed.

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:43:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

As we learned with hilarity circa early February 2008.

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:43:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Maybe we should prevent constitution replay attacks by saying "This
constitution is valid until 12/1/2011 unless renewed".

Class: geofft Instance: not-a-political-statement
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:47:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i constitution/sipb.mit.edu@SIPB.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug  2 20:58:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Apparently "NFS: server address does not match proto= option" is code
for "You need to install nfs-common"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 21:59:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Past geofft is sometimes really clever, though.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:06:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Well that's a new one.

chmod: WARNING: Circular directory structure.
This almost certainly means that you have a corrupted file system.
NOTIFY YOUR SYSTEM MANAGER.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:08:36 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: According to Norse legend, thunder god Thor's chariot was pulled across the sky by two goats. <asedeno>

Round and round and round we go...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:08:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

The phrase "system manager" is a new one.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:09:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I think "your system administrator" is reasonable. I'm used to TeX
saying to find "a wizard". But... manager?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:11:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

haiiro / juxta / haiiro  22:10  (Did someone here order a zsig?)
       brogan / cavestory / brogan  22:08  (Brogan E King)
           Ahhh why is she shooting at me
       kyoki / corset / keach  22:08  ("Awesome, wossum, possum sauce." -ahailes)
           terrible!
debathena / 760.d / amb  22:10  (amb@[ff00::a02:6])
    Oh, no, not again.
haiiro / juxta / haiiro  22:11  (The enemy's zsig is down.)
    Today is just full of the juxtas.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:12:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"System manager" sounds VMS-y.

Class: geofft Instance: AH9
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:37:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I should either stop wearing shorts or stop tooling at SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: AH9
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:41:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What is the temperature?

Class: geofft Instance: AH9
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:42:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

"cold"

Class: geofft Instance: AH9
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:42:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

the doohickey says 67.5

Class: geofft Instance: AH9
Time: Tue Aug  2 22:52:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Blech.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:14:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... -fdollars-in-identifiers?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:15:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You have to pay extra for that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:15:42 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

$4 for a 10-pack of FunRoll Loops.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:15:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... this is even the default?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:15:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: intermittently AWESOME <eichin>

VMS is mostly to blame for that one

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:16:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

tyger:/tmp/geofft geofft$ gcc -o dollar dollar.c
tyger:/tmp/geofft geofft$ cat dollar.c
#include <stdio.h>

int convert_to_$20s(int dollars) {
        return dollars / 20;
}

int main() {
        printf("$60 is %d $20s\n", convert_to_$20s(60));
        return 0;
}
tyger:/tmp/geofft geofft$ gcc -o dollar dollar.c
tyger:/tmp/geofft geofft$ ./dollar
$60 is 3 $20s

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug  2 23:18:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

VMS was my guess too, Good old SYS$WHATEVER.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  3 01:20:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Falling asleep at my terminal. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  3 01:20:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

(of course, I'm lying in bed with the light off, so this isn't too
surprising)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:10:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

"Sorry this took me forever to reply to. I'm now at inbox 541, not
15000, and should hit zero soon."

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:16:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.i,i
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:19:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

PROJECT OMEGA has reached its final phase! Bwahahahaha!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:46:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I never have any idea what Apache MPM I want.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:47:13 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The default on linux is prefork. Which usually works well enough.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:47:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Define "default"? aptitude install apache2 defaults to worker. The
web-server task includes prefork.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:47:50 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mpm.html

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Aug  3 10:48:19 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Scroll to the bottom.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:47:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Subject: Microsoft Office Now Available to MIT Students at No Cost

i,i "wait, that's been true forever"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:49:28 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:50:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

It's now _legally_ available to MIT students at no cost.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:50:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:51:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

I do actually believe that if you poll most MIT students who have
office, they acquired it at no cost...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:52:14 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's easier to pay for 2010 than to pirate it... and it's like $20/80
depending on how you get it. (Some educational pricings are better
than others, I believe I paid $80. Then promptly switched to LaTeX, so
I've not used my license...)

Class: geofft Instance: code-review
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Sumanah/Launchpad-dev-process

Class: geofft Instance: code-review
Time: Wed Aug  3 11:59:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Clear we should adopt that model

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 12:20:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Awww, great. fontconfig's maintainer is keithp, who is presumably
hosed. (Also he hasn't done an upload since December 2009, excepting
the one recent upload where he took a patch from vorlon for
multiarch.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 12:21:17 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

"Hosed, but very high bandwidth"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 12:22:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

Well, I could get him a patch, but I mostly want him to confirm that
the patch is sane. (I also verbally described it, in the midst of a
bunch of other text -- it's just "use dpkg --compare-versions lt-nl
instead of lt")

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 12:24:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Windows NT: postapocalyptic, dystopian Athena <geofft>

... unfixed bugs in the package, partial list: form 1040 doesn't
work.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622823

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 12:56:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's up with keithp?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 13:15:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

He, like, maintains X.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 13:18:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  3 13:46:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> Stata

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:52:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

The angle here is kind of wrong. Maybe I'm too tall

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:52:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This is Stata?

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:52:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

yes, they should be on articulated arms.  But they're not

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:53:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:56:39 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

No, Jon -- THIS! IS! SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Class: geofft Instance: vostro
Time: Wed Aug  3 14:58:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:10:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

shut up, stumbleupon

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:26:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:54:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:54:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oh, are you getting the "hey, we haven't seen you in a while. come back" email?

Class: geofft Instance: brogan
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:58:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

http://geofft.mit.edu/p/xkcd-guy-brogan-graph.png

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:59:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: brogan
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

(Props to brogan and bbaren)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 15:59:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

sorry :(

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:00:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I get those from ZipCar and OKCupid too, don't worry

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:00:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oh yeah, OKCupid is really annoying

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:00:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I think we only do it twice?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:00:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

it's actually mucking with our tests, and we were going to disable it, but it's
actually more work than we thought for some reason

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:01:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I have 13 e-mails since "Welcome to StumbleUpon".

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:01:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

...

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:01:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

that seems wrong

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:01:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

let me check ...

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:02:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oh, apparently you're getting your daily recommendations or something. There
should be something in your account settings to stop them

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:02:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Weekly recommendations, but yes

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:03:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

X N  759 Jun 14     StumbleUpon       (13K) geoffreyerffoeg, 5 ways to use Stumb
X N  848 Jun 15     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 1491 Jun 21     StumbleUpon       (13K) Get the most out of StumbleUpon!
X N 1910 Jun 24     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 2436 Jun 28     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 2489 Jun 29     StumbleUpon       (13K) Find your friends on StumbleUpon!
X N 3416 Jul 12     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 4002 Jul 19     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 4253 Jul 21     StumbleUpon       (15K) Sit back, relax and explore.
X N 5255 Jul 27     StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X   6101 Yesterday  StumbleUpon       (18K) geoffreyerffoeg, enjoy your weekly r
X N 6179 12:09      StumbleUpon       (13K) Come see what you've been missing wi

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug  3 16:03:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah ... sorry about that. you should be able to disable it

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:42:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

augh. I hate the state of UNIX printing

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:42:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

There's no good reason debathena-printing-config should even exist...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:42:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But thanks to the Common UNIX printing system, it sucks equally on all
platforms!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:43:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

hm.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:43:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

s/UNIX //

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:43:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

debathena-printing-config, in a world without LPRng, only exists for
the F5.  As much as I hate CUPS, that's not really their fault

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:44:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Windows gets us the nice property that any print job submitted is
guaranteed to go through the print drivers, and programs don't
generate binary output and toss it at a printer.

But it doesn't ever show remote queues (as far as I know?).

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:45:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

> But it doesn't ever show remote queues (as far as I know?).   

You didn't hear it from me, but \\mitprint.mit.edu\bw

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:47:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Right. If I open the print status dialog, does that show the local
queue or the remote one?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:47:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you configured it as an SMB queue, remote.  Otherwise, local

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:52:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Okay.
CUPS should do that.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 17:52:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

CUPS should do a lot of things

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:15:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

my cell phone is not a mouse, even though it has a power cable coming
out the back.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:15:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Surely there's an app for that

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:16:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

These days, I think the obvious answer is actually "Your mouse has a cable?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:16:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Its battery sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:40:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Whoa, Uptrack uses polkit these days instead of gksudo? This project
has really grown up

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:43:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think gksu sort of stopped existing in Fedora.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:56:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

nanananananana CATMAN

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug  3 18:56:39 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:09:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

... I just ran into a bug mwhitson reported against LPRng in '99.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

rather, ran across a bug report. The bug seems to have been fixed
rather promptly.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:16:43 2011 Host: OPUS.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Read the changelog here:
http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=9238
I'm amused

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:18:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Square Thru 3 <kchen>

Is that someone MIT-related (given the smiley)?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:19:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Yeah, the timing is like a week after albertni was in town and we
tried to install it on a cluster machine and failed

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:42:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The Dropbox founder and a lot of the early people, including IIRC the guy
whose name is on that post, are MIT alums/dropouts.  Their pitch as given
to MIT folks is that Dropbox came out of Drew (the founder) using his
Athena account to store files and use from home, campus, etc, and
realizing that this was awesome and most of the world didn't have it yet.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Wed Aug  3 19:55:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Yeah, I remember him giving me that pitch

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 20:29:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

"There are far too many dead chickens in this code."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  3 23:50:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

ugh. I hate how one drink does nothing interesting to me other than
make me intolerably sleepy

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug  3 23:51:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I have this awful temptation to set up a repo that gets a new package
every minute, for the sake of debugging upgrade issues

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:52:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I'm not sure how I feel about Guild games giving characters the
ability to die at all.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:52:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

well, without their player having something interesting to do, like
respawn the character

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:53:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

"Ghosting"?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:55:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

well.
I mean, I don't like as a player that if my character decides the
right thing to do is kill another character, I as a player am being a
dick to that player. So it makes me over-cautious, and I only want to
kill someone when I'm confident it's the right thing for my character
to do, as opposed to plausibly helpful and I can get away with it

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:55:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

For some games that pressure is more fine than others, but it bothers
me from a clean-game-design perspective that it exists at all.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 00:57:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

I'm not sure I disagree, but one point is that it is often pretty
nontrivial to know if "you can get away with it."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:02:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I wonder how to run processes on a cluster machine that I can't log
in to...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:03:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

"It'd be nice if bos exec worked on clients"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:04:27 2011 Host: PERIPHRASIS.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:04:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I.... really think we eliminated all the remote vulnerabilities. I'm
sad

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:06:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"if it's that much of an issue, you should really install a backdoor"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:07:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Well, it's hung in athena-auto-update, otherwise I would just do the
obvious thing.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:16:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:16:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Hibernate the machine, sketch on the filesystem to add a cronjob, and
resume it.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:16:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<But we did not respect our water. We boiled it in our pots.> <xavid>

No permadeath is a fine game design decision to make, but one that
often makes it difficult to resolve things satisfactorily, especially
in long games.  "Ok, we've figured out you're trying to kill Cthulhu,
now we... keep you tied up for five days?"

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:17:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

You can't respawn as another character? I guess you might know too
much...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:17:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Aww, we disabled hibernate.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:18:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<We locked it in our reservoirs. We walked around with water sloshing in our bellies.> <xavid>

It really depends on genre.  Certainly casual death doesn't need to be
as easy as it often is.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:20:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "TWO BILLS ENTER!  ONE LAW LEAVES!" - ismith <pbaranay>

I think because [redacted] went overboard shanking dudes in my Rush
game, I have been fairly reluctant to kill people ever since, which
actually kind of eited me in a recent game...

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:20:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

But Arcadia, at least, was big enough that assuming you were trusted
to not tell tales as a dead man (which you are anyway, even if you
die and leave game), and feel comfortable saying "wait, no, you can't
blackmail/torture me for information from my psat life, that doesn't
work", you could probably respawn as a character who never interacted
with the part of game your old character interacted with.

But I guess in a long game this is less of a problem since you can
just be like "all right, I'm going to find the GMs and start NPCing
now", and so you don't feel bad killing someone because their player
will have something to enjoy doing for the rest of game.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:21:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Daley can hear the moaning of the dust, and now it makes words. “Water,” it says. “Water.”> <xavid>

Respawning as a new character doesn't work well generally; this is a
form of metagaming some players will fail to avoid.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:21:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

This is mostly interesting in short games. Also in short games it's
not really unreasonable to decide in the first 15 minutes you want
someone dead as soon as you can corner them and get away with it. In a
ten-day that's pretty unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:21:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "they can wank for their pleasure" - lizdenys <pbaranay>

> In a ten-day that's pretty unreasonable.

I disagree.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:22:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Spanish has completely fucked up my sense of spelling." - wings <pbaranay>

Your character sheet can be written "you want to kill X as soon as
possible" in a ten-day for any number of reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:22:07 2011 Host: PERIPHRASIS.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk>

The person I killed was very spur-of-the-moment, in a "say, the only
person who could ruin this plot of mine is alone with me in this
secluded hallway, and I'm in a hurry".

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:22:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "SHADOW HOME SECRETARY IS WATCHING YOU MASTURBATE" - efogg <pbaranay>

kaduk: Wait, you played a Guild game?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:22:37 2011 Host: PERIPHRASIS.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk>

Yes.  The one you were GM for, as I recall.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:23:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We have an enormous collection of fake bombs.  Pipe bombs, underwear bombs, bra bombs, bomb vests..." - jessiehl <pbaranay>

Man. After I said it, I vaguely remembered. Were you a cultist?

I am so forgetful about Athens.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:23:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Water.”> <xavid>

No-perma-death short games are pretty reasonable.  Also, short games
where everyone who dies can NPC, like RC4.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:24:16 2011 Host: PERIPHRASIS.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk>

I was not ... oh, I guess so?  I don't remember it being referred to
as such.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:24:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“One day,” says the voice, “our undines revolted.”> <xavid>

Early deaths in 10-days depend a lot on the game and how well-written
it is.  Certainly there are games designed to have a plant die 15
minutes in to set the tone.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:24:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<They rose from the boiling pots. They were tempests in the reservoirs.> <xavid>

(With it not being obvious to PCs that the dead character was a
plant.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:26:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> suspend

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:27:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<They fought the special Martian forces in the sky, and it was their bloody corpses that fell instead of rain.> <xavid>

I find both "I'll kill you because my character would, I don't want to
metagame, sorry" and "I could kill you, but lets not ruin your game"
pretty defensible; I lean towards the first when it seems that the
plot was well written but I beat you, and the second when it feels
like you were screwed by the GMs.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:28:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

== xavid in late game, but almost always lean toward the second when
it is near the beginning

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:32:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Geoffs are friends, not food." - ismith <pbaranay>

I should totally go for intimidating people instead of outright
killing them one of these days.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:35:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> suspend

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:35:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

I generally dislike killing people in Guild games, because I feel like
I am stopping the person I am killing from having fun, since they can
no longer play once they die (in most games...)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Aug  4 01:35:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

Although if I feel like it would seriously break character/my goal is
to kill someone then I will kill the person, but if I can avoid it I
will

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 10:37:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Kwality:

  * debian/patches/06_drop_Werror.patch
    - Build without -Werror in CFLAGS which fixes FTBFS on armel

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Aug  4 10:47:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

lola-granola:/usr/share/gdm geofft$ cat gdb-cmd
bt
thread apply all bt full
q

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:19:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Subject: IS&T strongly recommends locker maintainers STOP SUCKING and
support Ubuntu 11.04

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:20:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If I ever leave, I'm totally sending a mail like that on my last day.

Class: geofft Instance: ist.pipeline
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:33:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

... why is Pharos marked as 8/15?

Class: geofft Instance: ist.pipeline
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I thought the FINAL STAGES OF PROJECT OMEGA went into effect already.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:40:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

$ DEBATHENA_DEBUG=1 lpr -Pmitprint
Running: /usr/sbin/sendmail pharos-release@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Thu Aug  4 13:41:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 14:41:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh hey, that is actually kind of cool.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 14:56:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Whoa...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 14:57:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/music21/
for those who didn't see the e-mail

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 14:58:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: HOFF (vb.) To deny indignantly something which is palpably true. <ahailes>

oh hey, that was my UROP a few years ago

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 14:58:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BUDE (n.) A polite joke reserved for use in the presence of vicars. <ahailes>

I didn't do very much on it, but my name might be around somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 15:02:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SCORRIER (n.) A small hunting dog trained to snuffle amongst your private parts. <ahailes>

what's the relation to linerva?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 15:02:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

They want to drop Python 2.5 support and that's all that Linerva has

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Aug  4 15:18:13 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm a bit confused by all the places it says "soon!" there.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Thu Aug  4 16:23:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

"The Hazing Scholarship has been updated and renewed for the 2011/2012
school year.  Please print and post for your students."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  4 16:23:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> home briefly

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  4 16:29:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> home -> music stuff

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Fri Aug  5 01:45:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I'm a little uncomfortable at how being responsible for security for
machines running an EOL'd distro is not significantly harder than
being responsible for security for machines running a supported
distro.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Fri Aug  5 01:46:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I guess it's not 2009 anymore and people aren't finding a new local
root exploit every week.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Fri Aug  5 01:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Or if they are, they're not talking about them (and so distros aren't
releasing updates anyway).

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:32:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

you're complaining about a digital piano because you get interference
from the local radio station and "can't help but think these problems
wouldn't occur with a real piano"?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:35:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

... the next guy says that the string and organ sounds don't sound
like the real thing and "you get what you pay for"?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

where is my TCP punch you in the face protocol

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:35:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I think the RFC for that is still in the draft stage.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:35:54 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

url?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:36:18 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I am curious what realm of cheeze this hardware is from

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:36:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-PX-130-88-Key-Digital-Stage/product-reviews/B002IVK0FE

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:37:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Wow, five hundred dollars??

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 13:39:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

There's one at Best Buy. It looks totally reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 14:27:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Best Buy wants $550 for it. There's also a 76wkey piano for $250 I'm
looking at. are 12 keys worth $300?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 14:28:37 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

probably.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 14:28:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

... Do you not have amazon prime?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Fri Aug  5 14:31:18 2011 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 2 3 31 353 19991 <cesium>

IME there's a difference between keyboards, which generally are
cheaper, have fewer keys, and have more fancy effects, and digital
pianos, which aim to be more like actual pianos (and possibly a few
other instruments), including having 88 keys. So depends what you want.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:00:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

augh hate Solaris xterm

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:00:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Also what happend to my Firefox

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:08:42 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

when sun cluster machines still were a thing, I just built xterm for solaris
and put it in my ~/bin ...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:09:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

That is mostly better. It gets more confused at unicode, though.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:10:28 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I ... last built it summer 2003.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:13:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

It certainly seems to handle Anders' <no lf> hack much better. Also
alpine's home screen

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:17:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"I can fix this for you"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:28:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Did starnine's Exchange inbox get improved? IMAP is no longer painful

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:28:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

(ec-discuss is still painful)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:32:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Subject: IS&T recommends you WAIT to wank about printing

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:33:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I so very much wish I could send that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:33:38 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Do we expect the quota to go away or something?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:34:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, I expect people to not give a shit when April rolls around and
they realize they've printed like 500 pages at most.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:34:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"I Stand & Totally recommend you WAIT to wank about printing (again)"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:38:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Anyway, should I troll ec-discuss?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:38:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Always.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:38:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

can you really troll ec-discuss?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:38:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

It's really easy.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:39:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I thought ec-discuss is basically a trolling list.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:39:19 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Sure, but it's taking up residence under a bridge with a "TROLLZ PLZ
LIVE HERE" sign on it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:39:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you troll in favor of IS&T, yes.  Otherwise, I will delete your
print quota right before you have to print your thesis

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:39:24 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I'm now tempted to head you off by sending a fake press
released headlined "IS&T transitions to new VLAD THE IMPALER printing system"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:41:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

What does your forward have to do with Pharos?  It seems to be about
the UA buying a printer.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:42:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Lerman was the pilot printer for Pharos

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:42:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

(That and Baker's penalty-printer)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:42:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Pour money into fixing a broken printer in W20? Are you ceres?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:42:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

> penalty-printer

?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:42:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's also the pilot printer for "HEY GUYZ LETS PRINT DOUBLE_SIDED
SOLID BLACK IMAGES TO PROTEST PHAROS"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:43:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

ISTR that IS&T put Baker's printer on Pharos to punish them for
stealing paper from the clusters, or somesuch.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:43:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, Baker was picked because Plaz lived there and was heavily involved
in this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:43:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I like my explanation better

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:43:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Of course it was.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:47:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Haha. Reply in personal mail:
"because ec-discuss is like the MIT version of fox news and everyone
is tuned in. it's much easier to watch people with strong opinions but
ultimately no power to actually do anything argue about the things
you care about than to actually voice your own opinion to the people
that can help."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

AHAHAHAHA

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:49:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

"Why do we need a printer in the game room? There is a printer by the
quick-stations. I used it a few times last semester after it migrated
to the Pharos system."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:50:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>the game room?

You mean the Citibank locker room?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:51:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

> Citibank
what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:51:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Was I really that unobservant?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:51:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

There's a Citibank ATM in the game room and one in Stata

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:51:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

it's, like, two weeks old.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:51:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Swing Thru <kchen>

Huh, interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:52:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

wow.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:57:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Jonte sucks at replying.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:58:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

this "Tim" kid sucks at not being an idiot.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 15:59:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

At least he didn't also chime in on the other thread saying pharos sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:00:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What does printing have to do with lighthouses, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:01:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"If Pharos is so awesome, how come it was damaged in the earthquake of
956AD?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:06:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

If you build Pharos, your civilization will gain 1 extra happy citizen
per city. (It becomes obsolete when Invention is discovered.)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:21:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

ESP Security
USENIX Security

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:23:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Wait, what's the difference between dementia and dementix?

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:24:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He sold dementia.org, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:21:59 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"a few thousand dollars"

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh, I thought it was a typo the first time I saw it. "The keys are
right next to each other"

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:24:17 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

no.
dementix is actually something we (jeff chaskiel and i) talked about
long long ago based on sunos 4 source which i happened to have at the
time when none of us wanted to go with solaris 2, before linux was
useful on sparc and really before x86 was terribly interesting as a
unix platform

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:24:25 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

so, i needed a name quickly, and...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug  5 16:36:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

you should take a picture of the APO letterpress and say that
if people are dissatisfied they can use it.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Fri Aug  5 17:22:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

COMPUTERS

Y U NO WORK

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Aug  5 17:51:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Your servers were meant to ride with the cloud between their knees.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Aug  5 17:54:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "why doesn't the world have manpages" - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

I've been through the desert on a box with no name...

Class: geofft Instance: oneiric
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:51:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Okay, what's the stupid keyboard shortcut I keep hitting

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:58:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

... I need to create an account on your website to read documentation?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:58:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes.   I'm getting PDFs, as long as you don't need them immediately

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:58:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(They're not as exciting as you want them to be)

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:58:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I was afraid of that.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:59:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Also, I can download the Mac clients from the website but not the
Windows or Linux ones?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:59:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Poke me again on Thursday and I'll get them from Peter in person

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:59:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Linux ones
"I bet I know why you can't download those"

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:59:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Whatever happened to the crazy vendor with the Xlib client from two
years ago?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 18:59:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That was Xerox, and it still exists.  Do you want it?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:00:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(Hint: You don't, because then you will learn about CUPS interface
scripts and cry)

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:01:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Like, backends? You saw the one I wrote for working around Kerberized
printing, right?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:01:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No no, interaface scripts.  Go look at lpadmin -i

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:05:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh, that might have actually been cleaner for what I was doing.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:06:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

But it looks about the same.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:06:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's not.  You can frob the job, but you can't do some thins the
backend can do.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:15:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

http://djangopony.com/

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:16:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:22:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

http://pharos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1672

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:22:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

"The reason Remote Control is not available in the PS200s is because
the Linux kernel upon which the software runs does not support VNC."

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:23:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:23:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's not even a little bit true

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:23:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does VNC mean something else?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:23:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, it means what you think it means

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:23:29 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Huh, the Omegas run Linux? I somehow though they'd be VXworks or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:24:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, wait, it is.  WTF?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:24:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:24:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

achernya: Yes, they run Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 19:25:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

That's where I got http://geofft.mit.edu/p/Screenshot-QEMU.png from

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Fri Aug  5 21:02:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh hey, I bet my job printed by now. I should go back to the cluster
and pick it up

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Aug  5 21:16:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Right, I should do that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  5 21:59:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I think I'm going to stop caring about breaking Pharos for now and go
and work on my thesis for three hours.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:02:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Google+ is in my browser and not in my screen session, and so I never
check it. This makes me weird, doesn't it.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:02:19 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Yes, but weird like others of us

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:02:31 2011 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 113 11615927 <cesium>

"write a BarnOwl module"

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:02:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

They had some list to get notified when an API appears. Let me go
find it...

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:03:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

I approve of this plan.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:04:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Oh man, I got sand in my vagina this weekend. That sucked.
Then I made a pearl, which was awesome." - Maitland <neried7>

==

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:05:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

davidben: You saw how far my Facebook barnowl module got...

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:05:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

er, cesium.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:05:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

i,i Dammit, does this mean I have to write the G+ module too?

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:13:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You have a better track record of making such a thing happen than any
of us do.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:14:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: cpizza
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:17:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Why are there no drunk people here? Is it too early for that?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:38:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  5 23:39:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

mabe

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug  6 09:58:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

-> Boston all day, online a bunch in the afternoon

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Aug  6 12:29:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

heterodox
READMEs for straight people

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug  6 12:55:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

This wireless is just good enough for me to argue apologetics on
zephyr but not good enough for me to work on my thesis. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:26:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

ella, ella, eh, eh, eh

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:30:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ella, ellae, ellam, ellae, ellā?

Class: geofft Instance: lyrics.prnf
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:38:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

I believe in one god, and I believe in three
I'll believe in twenty gods if they'll believe in me

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:51:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:51:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

WHY AM I GETTING A RACE CONDITION IN SINGLE-THREADED CODE

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 13:52:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

"describe in more detail"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:04:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Oh, okay, that makes more sense... I wasn't actually testing against
my code and so things worked. "oops"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:04:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

So I'm still getting something that looks vaguely like I'm losing a
race, but I'm _always_ losing it, which is way more sensible than
sometimes winning and sometimes losing

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:05:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

"Cooperative multithreading still has races"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:17:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ubuntu: an ancient African word meaning NMU <geofft>

Man, I forgot about the Python backtick operator

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:23:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

new zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 14:31:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I liked the previous zsig more.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 15:57:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What does that... mean?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 15:58:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I don't know, but if I found out, I'm sure I could solve my problem.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 15:58:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Depending on what it means, it might be totally ~doable.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 15:58:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

(The more relevant context is that at some point freshman year before
I had a good handle on how computers work, I suggested to Nelson and
some other folks they solve some kernelspace problem by stracing the
kernel, and got duly laughed at)

Class: geofft Instance: codetaku
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:26:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

"wifi, humans, same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:29:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh, I think I see why I suck.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:41:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Stupid Python question: Does the id() of a dict change if you merely
add things to the dict?

(The right answer is probably "stop making this assumption")

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:41:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Depends on what happens when they resize, I suppose.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:43:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Er, I'd expect adding things to still be within the realm of keeping
the object's identity. Python's not functional or anything. (Besides,
if they changed pointer on resize, they'd need to update all the
other pointers to the dict.)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:43:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==davidben

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:54:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

you don't know how many times I've wanted to be able to strace humans.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:55:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

I mean, maybe I can, but my problem is that I don't have kids yet.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:55:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Solution: reparent some other children to yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:55:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

What kind of parent waits for the children to die?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

The First One, the Father of All.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 16:58:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

I believe in the holy trinity, runlevel=3.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Why do we consider it normal that people can say "I'm a liberal" or
"I'm a conservative" without any implication that one view or the other
is _correct_ and the other is wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:06:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

It's a hedge against the possibility that you are wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:05:34 2011 Host: dhcp-18-111-114-200.dyn.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Because as constructed, they are differences of opinion

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:07:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Fine. Why is opinion legitimate?

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:08:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

To be distinguished from proposed conclusions, in search of additional
facts to strengthen or disprove them.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:10:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> Why is opinion legitimate?

Well, that lands you in epistemology territory petty quickly, doesn't
it?

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:11:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:11:52 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's All the Galaxy's Spaceships) <eichin>

mmm, you don't see the implication?

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:13:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

I think opinion is legitimate if you think a republic structure is OK
for government.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:14:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

In that context, saying "I vote Democrat" is shorthand for "I vote for
Demoratic candidates often and I accept that if the Republicans win, I
will let them take office and agree to let my preferred party use
whatever minority-party influence it has."

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:16:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

So, I call myself a libertarian as a descriptor of my personality.
arguments that appeal to an indvidual's economic, social, civil, and
political liberty are going to be most persuasive to me. Arguments
that appeal to the state's need to regulate an individual for their
own happiness are going to be most antipersuasive to me.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:18:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

This doesn't mean that I /can't/ be pursuaded to believe in some
view, but rather it is a guide to how someone else should interact
with me in doing so. Its also an incomplete guide because it fails to
account for the fact that I am: a bleeding heart, a peace-lover or
militaristic temperment, a geek, or any number of things.

Class: geofft Instance: metapolitics
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:22:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

s/or/of/

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:43:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh. No. _That's_ why I suck.

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:48:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

... Trusting Trust should be a handson.

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:48:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

for 6.033?

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:48:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

It is an assigned reading, but do you mean people should write a
handson for it?

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:49:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Not necessarily. But there should exist a page walking you through
_writing_ the nefarious compiler

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:50:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

I don't think writing a compiler of any type is within the realm of
expectation for 6.033 :P

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:50:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

you mean modifying an existing compiler?

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:50:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

because == fluffy

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 17:50:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:02:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

i-mix

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:03:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

6.828 does most of what it does by saying // LAB 1: Your code here.
Finding the right places in some reasonable compiler to put those
comments would be useful work

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:04:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Suprise Minor! <ezyang>

Mmm yes!

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:04:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

That would be very cool.

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:06:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

==

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:06:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:07:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: hilarious decisions since the summer of '89. <afarrell>

I would like to see that done, though I am not the right peson
to do that.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:07:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh good, at least I have a minimal test case that's not "apt-get
source". That makes this much less painful to debug.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Aug  6 18:08:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

... wat

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:08:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Back online after a bunch of Munchkin. Good day today.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:49:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Ran into jtfu on SafeRide. Apparently she lives like a block from me.

It occurs to me I can't think of any MITish folks whose apartments are
any closer to mine than Archstone.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:52:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

(well, "other")

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Today's word of the day: "wat"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:54:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Specifically, why isn't this causing kernel null pointer dereferences
all over the place.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 01:57:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Sun Aug  7 02:41:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 03:02:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

OH YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 03:03:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I had an "==" where I needed an "is".

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Aug  7 03:04:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  7 12:32:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Getting a CVE against Pharos would be lulzy

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  7 12:33:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because companies totally have to care about those

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Sun Aug  7 12:34:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What is the "p" in the instance acronym?   I'm assuming it exapnds to 
"elsewhere in ..."?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Sun Aug  7 12:34:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

personals

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Sun Aug  7 12:34:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... that would make sense

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  7 13:14:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
My answer by the end of this week may very well be "Go for it"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  7 13:14:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:21:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh cool, a malicious (or incompetent) NFS server can prevent a client
from sleeping. I was wondering why my laptop didn't seem to sleep when
I closed the lid

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:22:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Also, huh, the freezer is capable of failing? Did not know.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:28:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What OS are you running that NFS can prevent sleeping?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:28:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(OS X does not have this problem)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:30:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:30:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Is this because mumble microkernel?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:30:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

No, it's because mumble well-designed.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 01:30:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Yeah, I am ... less than pleased with the quality of fs/nfs/*

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug  8 03:41:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/1994/msg00003.html

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 04:44:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

</3 C++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 04:58:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Okay, I think I understand this slots-and-signals library now. Bah. I
don't like having to do so

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 05:02:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Also, I think aptitude is written in continuation-passing style? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:09:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Okay, I don't understand why I keep falling asleep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:09:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I suspect that fixing this involves catching up on all the meals and
coffee I missed while having fallen asleep, though

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:23:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(mega-stark) The userland tools are pretty awful. too. rpc.gssd
grovels through /tmp looking for files that look like credential
caches.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:25:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

That doesn't really surprise me.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:26:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

While we're on the subject, anyone know what's going on with name
resolution and the NFS client? If my wireless connection is
disconnected, but lo is up, I can't connect to an NFS server running
on localhost because it refuses to resolve both localhost and
127.0.0.1.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:26:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Meanwhile, ping doesn't refuse to resolve those.

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:30:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Penne and potstickers:
x) soy sauce
y) vodka sauce

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:31:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That is a culture clash

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:31:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

yeah, a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:32:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

x. as the potstickers almost certainly already have some seasoning that
will clash badly with vodka sauce, while the penne is just pasta.

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:35:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

...why did you cook these things together?

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:37:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I was hungry.

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:41:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

if you can separate them, I vote vodka sauce on the pasta and soy
sauce on the postickers.

Class: geofft Instance: saucexory
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:41:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

*potstickers

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:47:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Once again, </3 C++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:47:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:47:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Why is there _code_ in a _header file_

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:47:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait don't hate the language, hate the coder.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:48:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:48:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>       Why is there _code_ in a _header file_
          
http://troll.me/images/troll-cat/why-because-fuck-you-thats-why.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:49:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

"Don't worry, I hate the coder too"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:49:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

geofft☃ / debathena / geofft  2011-08-08 05:02  (strace the kernel!)
    Also, I think aptitude is written in continuation-passing style? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:49:42 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

At least it's not, like, Java.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:50:38 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There's code in a header file because the compiler needs that code to
be able to inline when compiling source files using the header.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:51:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

   // stuff that needs to be done before the fork() of a library that
   // uses apt
   OrderResult DoInstallPreFork() {
      Res = OrderInstall();
      return Res;
   };

Does that really need to be inlined?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:51:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Meh.  Java can be readable, when people fully drink the MVC koolaid.
The really bad stuff is when people discover Reflection

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:52:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Yes, and I have no doubts that the author of this code would go and
use more reflection than an emo kid's poetry

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:52:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

(or MySpace profile picture)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:52:43 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

What turns me off about Java as used in practice is that most people
don't seem to like the language and invent crap on top of it.
Typically using reflection.  So, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:53:05 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>more reflection than an emo kid's poetry
++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:53:48 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There is a temptation to inline everything short because the cost
seems low.  It may be that the performance of that method is entirely
non-critical, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:53:48 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The MVC koolaid results in a *lot* of boilerplate, though. Also,
Interfaces are a sad excuse for proper multiple inheritance.
Admittedly, most coders probably shouldn't be touching multiple
inheritance.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:55:40 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I thought interfaces were cool on paper, until I learned that people
will criticize you for going off and writing just a class to do
something.  You have to write an interface, and a factory, and a
provider.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:56:21 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's enough to make you want duck typing.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:57:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

==ghudson

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:57:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

And I've seen FactoryFactories, too

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:58:21 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There's nothing to make you appreciate the elegance of someone's
design like the image of a huge smoke-belching building full of
complex industrial processes.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 11:58:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, people will criticize you for anything, right?  I've seen
reasonable enterprise-y Java code that uses factories only where it
makes sense, but still makes use of "just fucking do it" classes

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:01:07 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Sometimes you need Factories, but Java developers definitely overuse
the pattern. Is it fair to see that people that program using the
well-defined patterns try to overuse them?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:04:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?OverUseOfPatterns

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.d
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:04:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Ward's Wiki is the TVTropes of software development.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:17:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Haha, aptitude localizes "Yes, do as I say!"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

er, apt-get

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:21:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

If I have a member variable of a class that's an enum, and don't
explicitly initialize it in the ctor, what does it get initialized to?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:21:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Is it uninitialized, or initialized to zero?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:21:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

I think it's garbage.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:21:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Really.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:23:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I want a semantic grep

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:24:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

"show me all lines of code that reference this member of this class"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:24:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: more machine than man now <kcr>

You ought to be able to do that by analyzing the
debugging info.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:24:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have you used cscope?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:25:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Dunno if it works well for C++.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:26:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

This was the one thing I would switch over to Windows and Visual
Studio for when I worked on Chrome. They have a "Find all references"
feature that works quite well.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:26:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

geofft: gtags

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 12:28:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

or, rather, GNU Global, which gtags is part of.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug  8 14:08:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Oh huh, we got a new faculty member who does programming languages /
verification stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug  8 14:08:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

http://adam.chlipala.net/

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug  8 14:38:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

bzr
kcr

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug  8 14:42:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

I would not recommend trying to "kcr pull", no.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug  8 14:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

i,i "kcr blame" :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 15:07:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

hm. I should leave the apartment and eat more

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 15:43:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

... is there no reasonable apt documentation?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 15:45:35 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The object pushes back at you.
 <rnjacobs>

define 'reasonable apt documenation' ?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 15:45:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

apt-doc is from 2003.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 18:56:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

"GNU gdb (Ubuntu/Linaro 7.2-1ubuntu11) 7.2"

... Linaro?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 18:58:59 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... ubuntu for ARM SoCs?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Tosci's has the failure mode of recognizing too many people :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

(No one I know well enough to feel compelled to take my headphones
off for, though)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:43:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'll come back and open up E17 if you want...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:44:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

E17 has fewer lattes.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:58:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

  // Get the archives again.  This was necessary for multi-CD
  // installs, according to my comments in an old commit log in the
  // Subversion repository.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 21:59:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Aug  8 22:53:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

hauuuuuuuuuurgh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 03:39:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I don't like sleep any more :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 03:40:19 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

== :-/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 04:04:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

-> trying harder. hopefully I wake up

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Aug  9 04:48:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Maybe in 2015 we'll finally get reliable auto-updates.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 09:12:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

offline until 2 or so

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 13:33:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

online for a bit

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 13:37:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

-> coffee -> E17

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Tue Aug  9 15:17:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

wtf

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Tue Aug  9 15:17:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

in fact

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:32:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

-> nap

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:55:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Maybe I'll give up on doing this now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:55:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's the spirit!  Come work ont he athinfo udeb with me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:56:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

augh. "How about no"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:56:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Does the obvious thing not work?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:56:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I haven't actually tried, I'm just getting started

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:57:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And I wasn't actually serious.  Go nap.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  9 17:58:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Someone remind me not to buy iced coffee from Tosci's right as they're
closing

Class: geofft Instance: unelse.ttants
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:12:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

"I cast Magic Missile against the darkness"

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:32:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

kid-icarus:~ geofft$ ccsm
Info: No sexy-python package found, don't worry it's optional.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:33:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

"libsexy" is apparently a set of supplemental GTK widgets.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:33:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Yes. I'm fine with that, it just shouldn't be a user-visible name.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:33:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Especially not phrased like that

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:33:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There's one called "DebugSpewer", awesome

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed Aug 10 10:38:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

(I'm not arguing with you. I'd go even farther and say that it was a
terrible choice for a library name as well.)

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 10 13:30:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

I want a tool that will preprocess C files to get rid of all
error-checking so I can read them

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 10 13:30:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

strace

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 10 13:31:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Read, not execute.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 10 13:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

(Also, that doesn't help as much as you'd think. I keep having to run
strace with LANG=C so that my trace isn't filled with localizing
perror)

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 10 13:32:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Perhaps it was an unmix

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:34:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Cloud Athena.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:49:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/30940

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:50:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For bonus points, 
google("charlie on the mta") and click "I'm feeling lucky" and look at
the URL bar.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:50:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

but also http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/30979

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:51:34 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

What's an "I'm feeling lucky" button?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug 10 15:59:04 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Edmund Hillary, the first person to climb Mount Everest, did so accidentally while chasing a bird. <asedeno>

It's a button on the Google homepage that disappears when you start
typing into the search bar. Whoo, instant search!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Aug 10 16:02:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Clearly debothena should be able to quote SIPB policy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 10 16:03:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Okay, what was I in the middle of.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:38:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

You know what would be awesome? Chicken Pop Tarts.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:38:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: This is great art. <ternus>

eww

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:38:33 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Dental floss has superb tensile strength. <asedeno>

No thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:38:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who is not a lumberjack and is okay with that. <afarrell>

Geofft, I find your judgement questionable.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:39:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

toaster chicken!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:41:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

==ternus,asedeno :P

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:41:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Don't we call those "irish pasties" ?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:41:57 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Or commerialized "hot pockets" ?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

The bread has a different texture.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:43:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

Imagine taking a cranberry Pop-Tart and replacing the filling with a
slice of turkey lunchmeat. It would be the perfect Thanksgiving
breakfast for the busy professional.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:43:45 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

To quote a coworker, "Americans have no idea how to make a
good meat pie"

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:44:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

What you really want is a cornish or upper michigan pastie,
imho.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:44:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Which would be entirely different from a chicken pop tart.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:44:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I miss the cornish pasties I got in Ireland :(

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:44:43 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

cornish pasties are in fact an _excellent_ reason to
move to Cornwall.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:44:53 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Oh, sorry, Pasty is the cornish spelling.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:45:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Well, usually I think of locrian first, because I <3 smashing. - daigohji
 <rnjacobs>

... Geoff, you've had the Jones Thanksgiving Sodas, right?

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:45:59 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

But I think it would be great if you could buy breakfast
oriented meat pies around here.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

oh god yes.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:19 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Making them as thin and processed as pop tarts doesn't seem
like an improvement.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:39 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

You'd think Dunkin Donuts would be all over this.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Battlefield Surveillance Systems) <eichin>

the place on sidney (that closed right after we moved out)
had meat, cheese, and spinach pies...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

there's breakfast style hot pockets, right?

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:46:57 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

They're too busy elaborating on the breakfast sandwich.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:47:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: strace the kernel! <geofft>

rnjacobs: No.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:47:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cynthia S Lu <cindylu>

When you mentioned chicken pop tart, I immediately thought of
nyan-chicken...Like nyan-cat, but with a chicken and a poptart. xD

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:47:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,017,188. Issued March 21, 2006; 3rd of 6. <eichin>

(that were more "pocket" like, hmm, imagine a rav scaled
up to 4" long :-)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:48:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

there's actually a reasonable pot pie to go place near the mall ...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 10 17:48:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: If you're British and loyal you might enjoy Royal Marine <mlovett>

> "Americans have no idea how to make a good meat pie." 
 
My dear Richard, I would have to agree.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:00:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:01:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: asa.spam
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:02:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Seriously? anyexcuseforaparty.com?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.spam
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:02:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Woo, party!!!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.spam
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:03:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who is not a lumberjack and is okay with this. <afarrell>

Bubble Tea Party?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:08:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

ftp.pharos.com doesn't run an FTP server?

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:08:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You need the Pharos FTP client and your MIT ID.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:08:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

*.pharos.com appears to be a wildcard entry.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:10:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Good, now we can test upgrades"

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:10:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:10:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

HTTP *does* support file transfer...

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:11:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

My vibe is that FTP is increasingly getting replaced by HTTP.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:11:31 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/3, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Or sftp.

Class: geofft Instance: pharos
Time: Wed Aug 10 18:12:52 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There's nothing quite like FTP for wildcard downloads, though.

Class: geofft Instance: coreutils
Time: Wed Aug 10 19:07:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh, chroot now has --userspec and --groups

Class: geofft Instance: coreutils
Time: Wed Aug 10 19:10:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

* Noteworthy changes in release 6.12 (2008-05-31) [stable]

** Bug fixes

  id and groups once again print the AFS-specific nameless group-ID (PAG).
  Printing of such large-numbered, kernel-only (not in /etc/group) group-IDs
  was suppressed in 6.11 due to ignorance that they are useful.

Class: geofft Instance: coreutils
Time: Wed Aug 10 19:11:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

* Noteworthy changes in release 6.11 (2008-04-19) [stable]

** Improvements

  id and groups work around an AFS-related bug whereby those programs
  would print an invalid group number, when given no user-name argument.

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: coreutils
Time: Wed Aug 10 19:11:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

To their credit, 6.11 no longer segfaults on "ls -l /proc/sys".

Class: geofft Instance: coreutils
Time: Wed Aug 10 19:13:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8b3a894 sysfs: document files in /sys/firmware/sgi_uv/ <nelhage>

"Oh good"

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Wed Aug 10 23:22:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

https://launchpad.net/arkose
http://www.stgraber.org/category/arkose/

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Wed Aug 10 23:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Basically "stick the process into a container". I guess it's much
better than chroot for this

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:29:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

:-D look at the acknowledgements section
http://www.usenix.org/events/cset11/tech/final_files/Werther.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:29:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

-> why am I not asleep yet

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:29:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(or productive)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:31:01 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Wow, "of MIT SIPB".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:41:39 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Cool. Did this get published somewhere?.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 11 03:41:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If you can't sleep, you should comment on the ASA DB!

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:27:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

Have you read Lewis's Space Trilogy?

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:29:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I've read the first.

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:30:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

ah, ok.  Tangential, but the premise seemed relevant.  
"Aliens exist, but they don't need a Savior because they never fell
from grace"

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:30:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I feel like I more need to go read Narnia. <_< >_>
(But I have read, like, all his other fiction)

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:30:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

> I feel like I more need to go read Narnia. <_< >_>        

... ... ...

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:34:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I recommend the audio books.  The Last Battle is read by Patrick
Stewart.

Class: geofft Instance: else^2
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:34:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And if you like hearing both sides of an issue, go read what Phillip
Pullman has to say about the Chronicles of Narnia.

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:36:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

this code sucks

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Thu Aug 11 16:37:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

sql.mit.edu? "We knew that."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:17:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

bit.ly's URLs love shortening, shortening...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:44:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... it's not December 11, 2010, by any chance, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:44:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is this about the matlab posters?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:45:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

No. This is about Amazon MP3 putting that as the date I downloaded
something I just clicked download on ten seconds ago

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:45:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"ntpdate"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 11 17:45:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"On Amazon's servers?"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Aug 12 00:10:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Whoa, the quickstation timer font got really pretty in Natty.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.recruitment-rules.ttants
Time: Fri Aug 12 02:50:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Groups may not take signups at the TNE, or guide freshmen through
signing up while at the TNE (e.g., on a laptop or smartphone)"
"Groups may not take signups at the TNE, or guide freshmen through
signing up while at the TNE (e.g., on a laptop or megaphone)"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 12 15:29:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... wow, managed to avoid double-booking myself this weekend by
accident. I should really use moar calendar

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Aug 12 16:57:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

what... is... pervasive computing?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Aug 12 17:13:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that it's not blind luck if you catch a glimpse of Medusa.
 <rnjacobs>

when every device has a cpu in it.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Aug 12 17:13:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Science Park. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

including like, my stapler?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Aug 12 17:14:29 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Eating a freezing sphere is like eating a yeti.
 <rnjacobs>

Roughly. When your stapler can say "I have X staples remaining" and tell
something else to buy more spares.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Aug 12 17:14:50 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Doesn't the stapler at CSAIL do that already?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:03:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"regular ASA oversight", as in the ASA oversees things on a regular
basis
"regular ASA oversight", as in the ASA overlooks things on a regular
basis

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:04:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think we mostly do the latter...

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:06:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

No comment.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants.d
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:10:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... "Mandatory community service" is on our list of punishments?
Nifty, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:14:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Jason being Next's housemaster is incredibly confusing

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:15:32 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Wait, who in the what huh?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:16:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

*manager

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:16:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I guess housemaster would be even more confusing, oops.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:17:04 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Oh. Next having a new housemaster would actually be politically
significant.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 12 18:37:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I bet I have things I should work on right now that aren't thesis

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:21:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... apparently the answer is "read RFCs", what is wrong with my life

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:24:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:25:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

scripts mumble locker mumble DNS

Class: geofft Instance: rfc1035
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:25:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... There's a DNS RR type called "NULL"?

Class: geofft Instance: rfc1035
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:32:14 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Yup, and it's used by IODine queries.

Class: geofft Instance: rfc1035
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:32:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

AFAICT, its point is that it doesn't specify any restrictions on what's a
permissible response.

Class: geofft Instance: rfc2181
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:47:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

3. Terminology

   This memo does not use the oft used expressions MUST, SHOULD, MAY,
or
   their negative forms.  In some sections it may seem that a
   specification is worded mildly, and hence some may infer that the
   specification is optional.  That is not correct.  Anywhere that
this
   memo suggests that some action should be carried out, or must be
   carried out, or that some behaviour is acceptable, or not, that is
to
   be considered as a fundamental aspect of this specification,
   regardless of the specific words used.  If some behaviour or action
   is truly optional, that will be clearly specified by the text.

Class: geofft Instance: rfc2181
Time: Fri Aug 12 19:52:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

That's from Randy and kre? *adjusts worldview*

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:02:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Coordinated Minions would be an awesome name for a staffing company.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:03:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(you're mixing). A temp agency makes more sense, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:04:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Modern technology allows multiple physical servers with either
different (cf. load balancing) or even identical addresses (cf.
anycast) to serve a single hostname or domain name, or multiple
domain names to be served by a single computer."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:04:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

THE WONDERS OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:07:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornymanatee.com

Class: geofft Instance: fuzzing
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com/2011/08/fuzzing-at-scale.html

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:28:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"I know what I am doing is wrong."
geofft@leveret:/tmp$ apt-get source eglibc

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:31:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Geez we need more disk.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:31:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... I take that back, linerva is worse

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:32:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I told you I'd buy more disk!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:32:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Though I think a lot of this is you don't need things on there that are
on there...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:33:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I mean, /home/geofft is kind of full of stuff. "But I want it to be
full of stuff"

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:33:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Right but isn't there a mess of other things, too?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:34:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh, on other partitions, absolutely yes.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:34:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

right... and repartioning exists for a reason...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:35:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

The other partitions are all just about out of _free_ space. That
doesn't mean there isn't unwanted stuff on there, though.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:35:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

That said, last time I tried to deal with one of the unwanted
partitions, I found it was full of bad sectors

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:35:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

But can you even reasonably access them/use them/? IIRC you wanted it on
other disk.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Aug 12 20:36:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I tried dding one to the Isilon, which is close enough, just to get
to a point where I could get rid of it. The dd failed and left a
bunch fo ATA sadness in dmesg.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 12 21:05:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

PSA for anyone involved in student group recruitment: The recruitment
rules have been tweaked a bit, in the intent of making them clearer
(no major changes in philosophy from last year's rules). Also, it is three
weeks until the Midway.

http://mit.edu/asa/rules/recruitment-rules.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 12 22:35:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh. Why are Ubuntu's and Fedora's stunnels different?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 12 22:41:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh. "This package contains a wrapper script for compatibility with
stunnel 3.x"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 12 22:42:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I think I'll just use socat since I know that better <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 13 00:17:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Let's see. I think I'm horribly behind on scripts, TA stuff, and
probably thesis, and that's about it. Oh, and I guess figuring out
what I'm doing with my life as of January.

Which means back to normal.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 13 00:17:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

> TA stuff

?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 13 00:18:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who should not be on zephyr <afarrell>

Are you TAing 6.858?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 13 00:19:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 13 00:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

There's some lab rewriting to be done before term starts.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:46:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Man, I remember when we were planning to port scripts to Ubuntu +
Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:47:14 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

When was this? What killed it?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:49:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

My sophomore year or so, and mostly the fact that there are too many
sites assuming Fedoraisms (there are a bunch of tiny differences,
from rename(1) to /usr/libexec to testing what's installed with rpm
instead of dpkg) to risk breaking

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:49:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I'm not really sure how we were going to get away with it back then,
but at this point we're firmly in the state where many nontrivial
scripts sites have had their creators graduate. That was much less
true four years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:51:17 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What would have been the benefit? Uniformity? Beacuse that reminds me
of the team meeting in which we were discussing if we wanted debian
physical hosts, and non-uniformity was getting praised from a security
perspective.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:52:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yeah, uniformity from a user perspective, so that the clusters are
Debathena and scripts is also Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:52:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

instead of scripts being this weird thing that resembles Athena in
several ways but isn't

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:53:31 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We can fix that, by making Fedora-Athena a thing. And Scripts isn't
*that* weird. (Or is it? and I'm just biased/don't care)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:54:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Making Athenas exist is more a matter of making the community exist
than making some packages exist. Very few lockers support Fedora, for
instance.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:54:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(But we have been able to get some lockers to support Fedora by just
asking, notably moira)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:56:01 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm lacking on background. We put the Ubuntu/Debian sysnames into
Scripts, does this really lead to compatibility problems?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:57:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Try running barnowl on scripts."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:58:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Which is of course the flip side of the argument. The stuff you need
for running websites (or other services) more often than not exists
locally, and the stuff you need from lockers is relatively simple.
It's totally acceptable for it to be hard to use scripts as a dialup
for non-scripts-related interactive stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:58:42 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

barnowl: That's more of a problem with missing athdir? (I did athrun
barnowl barnowl)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Sat Aug 13 01:59:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

oh right, liblocker needs a rewrite

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 02:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/07/msg00804.html

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Aug 13 02:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... *facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Aug 13 02:43:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I, uh, should have checked that I could make the hackathon before
announcing it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Aug 13 02:43:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Whatever, I'd been carefully avoiding committing to the other thing I
could have done that day, so meh. :)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Aug 13 03:30:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What was it?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Aug 13 03:32:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

an xlinked gig, but I haven't been going anywhere near regularly, and
have been actively avoiding letting myself be volunteered for soloing
or percing anything

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 03:54:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/06/msg00309.html

wat

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 04:46:13 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Are those archives censored?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 04:46:53 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

I think they are! I think the original might have been
My number is 07725_257708

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 06:03:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Haha, did you read the copyright file for goodbye?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.ldots
Time: Sat Aug 13 06:03:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> Files: *
> Copyright: 2011 Adam Borowski
> License: GPL-2+/GPL-3-/GPL-2
>  This program is free software, and may be used under the terms of the GNU
>  General Public License.  On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, version 2 or
>  higher, on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, version 3 or lower, on
>  Sundays, version 2 only.
>  .
>  On Debian systems, the full text of the GPL is available in
>  /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-$version.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug 14 03:34:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

-> zzz

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Sun Aug 14 17:49:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

sigh.  It doesn't help to Bcc some people on a list and Cc the whole
list...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:17:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh good, we're talking about that.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:38:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Golf Club
golf club

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:39:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do we have the former?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:39:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:40:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(as a club sport)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 18:40:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also, ttants:
club sport
club sport

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:08:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

 HTGAMIT
   GaMIT
OrigaMIT

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:08:39 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "NERD."  "SAYS THE SIPB MEMBER ON ZEPHYR." "SHUSH YOU." - lexrj, ismith <wings>

The gay origami masters who tell prefrosh EVERYTHING!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:09:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

HTGaMIT = How To Gays at MIT?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:09:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Shawn S Westerdale <shawest>

wings++

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:10:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: asa.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:12:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

also, i,i "How To Get Around, MIT"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:32:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Hey Zephyr, we have 84 groups that applied for one of the last two
Midways but didn't apply for this one. If your group forgot to apply, please
do so ~now, so we don't hate you when you e-mail us the day before the
Midway in a panic.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:33:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also if you're not sure if you applied, feel free to zephyr me

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:33:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Is tomorrow close enough to "~now"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yes, that's fine. But it takes like three minutes to fill out the
form...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:34:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

https://asa.scripts.mit.edu:444/applications/midway/midway.php

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:34:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I don't actually know what we ask for. I'm going to make someone else
do it ... <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:39:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

You could just look at last year's.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:39:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Oh, maybe that file isnt' from last year, nevermind.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:40:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Sorry, its in old-copies/

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:43:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Cathy: OOC, WHo is "we"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:55:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"WMBR Radio" is kind of like "ATM Machine", isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 20:55:53 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Not really. Since those are truly their call letters.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities
Time: Sun Aug 14 21:34:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh, the kitchens in Random are assigned to Campus Dining in the room
inventory? I guess that _mostly_ makes sense...

Class: geofft Instance: facilities
Time: Sun Aug 14 21:36:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Okay, -> undistracted.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 21:42:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft, can you please share the list of 84 groups that haven't
applied? it's a lot easier to say "oh, I'm on that list" than to figure
out if anyone remembered to apply.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 21:42:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I'm about to e-mail y'all

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 21:58:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

AUGH THE BOUNCES MAKE THEM STOP

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:00:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I was pretty sure I saw LSC on the list. *confused*

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:01:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

On the list of applications? Yes, someone else clicked "LSC" as their
group's name.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:01:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

People suck at clicking.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:01:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Oh. Great. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:02:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"And you wonder why getting Midway table assignments out takes so
long"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:03:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Just reuse last year's."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:04:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Anyway, /mit/geofft/Public/forgot-to-apply.txt is the list, but this
should be irrelevant to you if you didn't get the e-mail I sent.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:05:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I'll note that sending the list in the blind fashion you used, while
discouraging stupid replies, also discourages people from realizing which
group caused them to rx the email, which can be a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:06:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Meh. I feel like I'm already being more nice to people than they
deserve by e-mailing them this reminder at all. The deadline was last
Wednesday and you should be reading asa-official anyway...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:07:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(I do use mail-merge for actual Midway assignments so that people get
one e-mail per group, but I figured that would be more annoying here
than it's worth.)

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh, their basic plan is now $35/month. That's unfortunate.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:23:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Hmm, what fraction of the 84 groups who did not apply this year also
received space last year or the year before but were no-shows?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:25:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I think only one occured to me and I didn't e-mail them.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:32:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I wonder if it would be easier to just advocate that _everyone_ with
fall housing gets to move in a few days to a week before when they
currently can

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:32:57 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Could you imagine a DMV of reproduction? - ismith <wings>

I think that's ideal from a student standpoinbt

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:33:00 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: (on Seattle) It rains like twice a year there.  January through August and September through December. - andrewd <wings>

*standpoint

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:34:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

i,i "How hard is it, on a scale from one to freshman on campus"

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:43:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

It's gotta be $, right?

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 22:43:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

The folks who maintain student dormitories are being paid to work less
over the summers.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:28:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] I wonder if that would make it harder to recruit people to
help out with dorm rushes. I guess if you only change by a couple
days, it probably won't matter.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:28:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm, actually, I'm not sure of that on further reflection.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:29:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

If you need to bribe people with early returns to get them to help out
with dorm rush, something is going wrong

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:34:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's been my impression that EC is substantially dependent on that,
judging by the number of emails or something I've seen that are like
"If you got an early return, you need to be in the courtyard working
at 10AM" or something.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:35:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

How do they enforce that?

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:35:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

You get to pay for your early return if your sponsoring group says you
were lame.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:35:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: St. Mary's Street. <stum>

a lot of email threats

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:36:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

My understanding is that it's only hard for EC to get people to do
certain things.  Like be awake at 10am.  Or cleanup.

Class: geofft Instance: early-returns
Time: Sun Aug 14 23:38:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Huh. I don't think that Simmons REX ever made people pay for the extra
days.

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Mon Aug 15 01:49:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I need to get a bunch of work done for my advisor by tomorrow. I have
a meeting at 1.
x) stay up and do it and risk oversleeping
y) sleep now and risk not doing it

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Mon Aug 15 01:50:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who can in fact ride a motorcycle. <afarrell>

whichever keeps you on your current sleep schedule

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Mon Aug 15 01:50:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who can in fact ride a motorcycle. <afarrell>

If you don't have a sleep schedule, follow your level of tiredness.

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Mon Aug 15 01:52:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"My current sleep schedule involves waking up after 1 PM."

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Mon Aug 15 02:00:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I think -> Chicago Pizza -> sleep 4-12 is close enough to correct.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 02:37:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... Okay, when did "upgrade my laptop to Debian unstable" become the
current yak?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 02:37:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who can in fact ride a motorcycle. <afarrell>

Don't you have a bunch of work to do for your advisor?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 02:37:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Hence my surprise.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 02:37:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

That should not be blocking on this.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 03:02:48 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You're not upgrading from oldstable to sid or anything particularly stupid, right?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 03:04:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

No. Actually I found a much more well-groomed yak and am elsewhere
now, but at some point I'd like to figure why aptitude isn't resolving
squeeze -> wheezy (I tried poking it two days ago and concluded that
evolution was broken?).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 03:05:52 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Do not use heatsink assembly as automatic cheese grater - ~
 <rnjacobs>

weird.

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:12:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

you suck and are a threat to student life and should be happy my phone
keyboard is insufficient for yelling at you properly.

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:13:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

are you actually on senior-house?

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:13:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Winchester Street/Summit Avenue. The destination of this train is: Cleveland Circle. <stum>

or is this just the mail that was forwarded to cfs

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:14:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

the latter

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:15:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(i have a mailbox subbed to all the dorm lists, though)

Class: geofft Instance: senior-house
Time: Mon Aug 15 11:18:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Tappan Street. <stum>

clearly what's called for here is you to dictate an angry rant into
your phone, then attaching the entire .wav file

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 12:18:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Wow, zephyr is so much quieter when I filter away everyone else's
personal classes.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 12:19:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Filters are great. I can go away for a day and only have a few hundred
zephyrs. My default filter these days filters away >half the zephyrs I
receive.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 12:27:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also, I wonder how much we are discouraging cool MIT students who
might want to grow up and become The Administration from doing so.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 12:29:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "You can be my fearless leader anytime, baby." - tajones <jessiehl>

I know of at least two awesome student-activist types who *did*
become The Administration (Matt McGann in MIT Admissions, Jen Frank
at Duke Housing).  Changing the system from within, yo.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 12:41:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

== on changing the system from within; yay Matt :D

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug 15 13:26:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Why did the thought "CouchDB" pop into my head. When is that the
correct answer for anything.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug 15 13:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(The word I was trying to come up with was "sqlite")

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:09:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

It ... actually takes conscious effort for me to write vulnerable
code now. I guess this is a good thing.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:09:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

Is the class still using that zoobar thing?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:09:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I'm rewriting it in Python.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Unintentional side effects: no more buffer overflows, no more SQL
injection.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:09:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

"You should use Flask!"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:11:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

It, would actually provide utility to me and probably the rest of the people
taking Daniel Jackson's class if you did, but I fail to see a reason
why that would be in your self interest any more than web2py or
something crappier.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:12:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

Clearly you need to find vulnerabilities in the Python interpreter.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

That... might be our approach.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:12:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

afarrell: Why, is 6.172 or something using Flask? That's tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:16:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

hmm, I never questioned it. I assumed they weren't using django
because it was too magical.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:17:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

If there's a specific web framework that some other part of the
course 6 curriculum uses, now's a good time to tell me. Otherwise I'm
continuing with CherryPy+SQLalchemy+Genshi 'cause that's what I'm most
familiar with

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:18:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

I'm actually going to email dbj to ask if their TAs have done
anything about setting up a Flask site already. 
I might as well ask this as well. I'll CC you.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:19:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

*dnj

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:33:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
      Ravenclaw [@<@color(yellow)======    >]@<@color(yellow) (6,Hufflepuff=5,Slytherin=5,Gryffindor=6/10)>

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:33:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

er.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:33:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
      Ravenclaw [@<@color(yellow)======    >]@<@color(yellow) (6/10)>
     Hufflepuff [@<@color(yellow)=====     >]@<@color(yellow) (5/10)>
      Slytherin [@<@color(yellow)=====     >]@<@color(yellow) (5/10)>
     Gryffindor [@<@color(yellow)======    >]@<@color(yellow) (6/10)>

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:33:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

but I ruined the joke anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:33:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(also, no, I did not bother to actually take the quiz)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 14:56:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

yea, they basically picked it as being "not django"
from what I've seen of it and cherrypy, I am liking Flask
better. However, I've not done anything with cherrypy since
last summer.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Aug 15 15:04:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What do you have against cherrypy?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:20:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Awesome, a user sent us an e-mail with an attachment "debathena
fail.jpg"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:20:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

heh, I failed to notice the filename

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:21:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was looking at that and I think my answer is "lol VGA netinstall
sucks"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:21:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://geofft.mit.edu/tmp/debathena%20fail.jpg

what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:25:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I was not a year old at the time that e-mail was sent.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:26:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And now you're cruft.  Sunrise, Sunset.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:28:10 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I want "AACK" to be one of the PCI IRQ routes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:31:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Lol, Jim Bidzos flaming about RSA patent licensing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:31:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus.mit.edu/kerberos/860

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:33:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus.mit.edu/kerberos/835

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:34:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ahahahahahaa

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:34:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"If they forget their password they need to contact the "Accounts
Consultant" to have it changed."

Wait, I missed the era where I would have had kadmin bits?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:35:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I didn't know about this $2.50/RSA user proposal. Did that actually
happen?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:35:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Accounts and OLC used to be the same office.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:35:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

broder: Yes. Fortunately you now have kadmin on ZONE, which is
approximately as interesting a realm as ATHENA was at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:35:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:39:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus.mit.edu/kerberos/33

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:40:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... are you reading the entire meeting?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 17:40:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I'm being distracted, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:08:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:01:39 -0700
From: NiceneCouncil.com <admin@nicenecouncil.com>
To: stuffmaster@mit.edu
Subject: This Week Only - $5 DVD - Are Roman Catholics Christian?

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:09:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

man, I remember being really confused when I ran into
someone making a distinction between RCs and Xians in conversation.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:09:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Does Trinitarian baptism join you to the New Covenant? Does it join
you to Christ? Does it make you a brother or sister in Christ with
everyone else who has likewise been baptized, even if you hold to a
false gospel? Are Roman Catholics our brothers and sisters in Christ
by Baptism, regardless of the gospel they believe? Why did the early
Reformers believe Roman baptism was valid? Why did the later framers
of the Westminster Confession and Second London Baptist Confession
refer to the Papacy as the seed of anti-Christ?"

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:11:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Are you pregnant? <ternus>

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:11:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Do Mormons really believe that God the Father was once a man who
lived on another planet?  Do they really teach that Mormon men on
this planet can become gods of their own planets?  What about
polygamy?  Does the Mormon church actually teach that Jesus and
Lucifer were spiritual brothers in the pre-existence?  This video
resource gives you the tools and research to help you effectively
communicate with your Mormon friends or families and teach you to
share the true Gospel of Jesus Christ with them."

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:11:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Madam, this bed is alive. <ternus>

Actually, this sounds like an obnoxious player-to-GM email.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:12:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Hehe. i,i "Yes, yes, yes, yes, because they were Catholic, because it
was politic, yes, yes but it doesn't mean what you think, what about
it, yes, no thanks."

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:13:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Please do not let the atmosphere in (out) as I will be most uncomfortable. <ternus>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:13:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sir or Madam, that is mine.  (extrinsic) <ternus>

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/answers-to-all-of-lifes-questions

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:17:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this all actually from the email?

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 15 18:17:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 19:10:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: syskblogd Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:15:42 2011 Host: SHINING-ARMOR.MIT.EDU
From: http://www.mit.edu/~wdaher/rssZephyr.html <rss>

Creating tiny Debian packages and repositories for testing

http://geofft.mit.edu/blog/sipb/172

For those of you who do a lot of Debian upgrade path testing… I got
annoyed at equivs not supporting Breaks: lines at all (Debian bug #
571638), so I wrote a small shell script to spit out the minimal
debhelper 7 rules file-using package. You can then edit debian/
control the way you’d edit an equivs [...]

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:20:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Anyone on my class use Dropbox on Athena?
(They want to test something about the next build)

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:20:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Alexp does?

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:21:05 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I tried once...

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:21:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brookline Hills. <stum>

like store the dropbox in an AFS folder or use the client on a
debathena machine?

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:22:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

The latter.

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox.d
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:22:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did they fix the bug where if your tokens expired, it ate your files?

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox.d
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:22:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Dunno, but I can ask!

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:23:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

The latest release does some per-machine key something, so the
question is to make sure it works gracefully if you use it on two
different machines that share the same homedir

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:37:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Symphony. <stum>

it should option for "if all my files suddenly disappear, please don't
delete them."

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Aug 15 21:53:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

How do madvise(2) with MADV_REMOVE, rm(1), and TRIM relate?

Class: geofft Instance: dropbox
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:50:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The crew shivers like rabbits at his smile.> <xavid>

I did some stuff in the dropbox locker, but I never worked around the
delete-your-files problem.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Right, lunch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:57:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:57:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... "lunch" ?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:58:07 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Some of us name our meals based on the timing."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 22:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh no, dinner. I'd actually be starving if it were lunch, nvm.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:00:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Anyway, I wonder where I want food from. Lots of places closed at 11
I guess there's always "home"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:12:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

There are.... _two_ interstitial pages asking for donations that you
need to click "Go to MicheleBachmann.com" on, before you get to any
real content?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:13:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://www.michelebachmann.com/invite/
Oooh, can she come to a SIPB meeting?

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:23:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Should I put my paid work for Debathena in "Experience" separate from
the bullet point under SIPB in "Activities"?

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:23:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Is "see below" or something reasonable?

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:24:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Suprise Major! <ezyang>

I would, but I'm not a particularly good sample point.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:24:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

(I'm also a guy who separated SIPB and Scripts...)

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:33:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Bah. Bucketing all my grad classes that I got A's in to the MEng
leaves my undergrad at a 3.7.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Mon Aug 15 23:36:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"I think that's the point at which I leave it off"

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:49:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

TIL TIOCSTI.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:53:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also TIOCCONS.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:54:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

TIOCTTYGSTRUCT just sounds like a terrible idea.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:56:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

> Warning: Do not regard this man page as documentation of the Linux
> console ioctl's.  This is provided for the curious only, as an
> alternative to reading the source.  Ioctl's are undocumented Linux
> internals, liable to be changed without warning.  (And indeed, this
> page more or less describes the situation as of kernel version
> 1.1.94; there are many minor and not-so-minor differences with
> earlier versions.)

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:56:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b83c710 [PATCH] av7110_hw __user annotations fix <nelhage>

I love that man page.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:57:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4aa49eb [PATCH] sonypi: rework input support <nelhage>

Yeah, TIOCSTI is the source of some hilarious security bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 16:58:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=628843

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:07:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

TIOCSTI?

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:08:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

From tty_ioctl(4):

Faking input
    TIOCSTI   const char *argp
           Insert the given byte in the input queue.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:09:28 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you make these questions up, or do they write them down for you? <eichin>

I have a little script based around
def stuff(s):
    for c in s:
        fcntl.ioctl(0, termios.TIOCSTI, c)
that I use to start my xterms; actually starting per-window commands
in each window is done by sending that code messages over a unix
domain socket

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:10:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... wait, what's the use case?

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:11:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Please read the file LISEZ.MOI <eichin>

compared to just using xterm -e, you mean?
* not having the xterm exit when the command is done
  (esp for windows where I want to re-run the command with ^p-ret)
* having "named" windows for things

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:12:18 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

I don't quite get that second part.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:12:55 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: stor rod knapp <eichin>

I can say "stuff this command into the window
I'm working on project-X"

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:13:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

oh, I see

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:13:32 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: control follows awareness <eichin>

(granted I don't end up using that one much;
more often I use "oh I have again, re-run every window that has an ssh
in it"

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:13:56 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

parse error?

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:14:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Microsoft Windows ME Harder <eichin>

"oh I have net again"

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:14:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

ah, okay

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:15:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I want there to be a little utility to take two arguments, one a path
to a terminal and one a string, and stuff the characters into the
terminal, so I can do things like type at /proc/foo/fd/0.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:16:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Come to think of it, I'm surprised that no one has written a utility
to expose all the fun ioctls.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:17:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 567b565 [PATCH] uml: add MOD_LICENSE to random driver <nelhage>

You need to be root for that to work, but that's probably fine.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:17:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: da58e92 [AVR32] Remove unused file <nelhage>

FIXME: does not honour flow control ??

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:17:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Wait, just being able to open the file isn't sufficient?

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:17:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1a37a3f powerpc/mm: Add local_flush_tlb_mm() to SW loaded TLB implementations <nelhage>

Nope.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:18:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9c06758 ISDN: Allow for return values in the state machine <nelhage>

        if ((current->signal->tty != tty) && !capable(CAP_SYS_ADMIN))
                return -EPERM;

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:20:33 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: information wants to be free to kill again <eichin>

yeah, my case works because the stuffer gets the
fd from xterm and then runs the shell too, so it has the fd by inheritance.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:22:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

> current->signal->tty

Wait, but that's easy.
main(int argc, char* argv[]) {
    int tty = open("/dev/tty", O_WRITE);
    if (tty != -1) {
        ioctl(tty, TIOCNOTTY);
        close(tty);
     int fd = open(argv[1], O_);
     for (char *p = argv[2]; *p; p++)
         ioctl(fd, TIOCSTI, p);
}

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:23:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2e5f032 dsa: add support for the Marvell 88E6131 switch chip <nelhage>

Er, does that work?

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:23:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

If current->signal->tty means "controlling tty", I don't see why not.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:23:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7094c21 [IRDA]: smsc-ircc2 irq retval <nelhage>

I thought that a terminal had at most one associated session.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:23:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh, hm.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:24:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b142eb6 [libata] SCSI VPD page 0x83 fixes <nelhage>

So if that terminal is already someone's CTTY, you can't make it your
own CTTY.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben.d
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:26:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I like the description of TIOCGSID in tty_ioctl(4).

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:35:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh, Crate and Barrel is from Naperville? Why is everything from
Naperville?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:36:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You will never find a more wretched hive of yuppies and suburbry.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:37:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Right, breakfast.

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:45:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yay, punted amateur night. "Now to do productive stuff with what's
left of my day"

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Tue Aug 16 17:46:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I guess "if you're too hosed to sign up for something, you're too
hosed to do it" is necessary but not sufficient.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:23:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Not this balloon crap again.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:31:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Sigh. There are certain things I like designing and not so much
implementing, and certain things I like implementing and not so much
designing.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:37:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

Such as?

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:37:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

Also, are there things you like designing, don't like implementing,
but do like describing?

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:38:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

interesting fiddly unix integration bits tend to be the former. At the
moment, webapps are the latter. I can deal with webapps, I just don't
like thinking about them.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:38:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yeah, I think designing and describing are close enough.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:38:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/wsgiref/handlers.py", line 93, in run
    self.result = application(self.environ, self.start_response)
TypeError: 'Main' object is not callable
Status: 500 Dude, this is whack!
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 59

A server error occurred.  Please contact the administrator.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:43:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

Fiddly unix integration bits being like OS stuff or debian packaging stuff
or what I'm working on figuring out now with flask and scripts and
fastcgi?

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:43:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I guess OS stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:44:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Fighting FastCGI always counts as hating webapps"

Class: geofft Instance: coding
Time: Tue Aug 16 18:47:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage <afarrell>

Programming fiddly stuff became a lot more enjoyable once I started
doing it to agressive music. I blame 6.858 and my tendency to try
tool to music appropriate for my classes to have shown me this.
(sadly, Rammstein does not help one write papers on German Millitarism)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Aug 16 20:14:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... we really compile this code -Werror? What is the point of that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Aug 16 20:15:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"I'm pretty sure that's not where the bugs are"

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:16:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

pbaranay / student-groups/resumes.prnf / pbaranay  2011-08-17 00:14
    I don't understand why being co-president, co-editor, whatever is so
    stigmatized (it seems). Having someone else to cover you when you're
    busy is fantastic, and often it seems that a burst of productivity
    from one co-whatever helps motivate the other.
pkoms / girl-genius / ezyang  2011-08-17 00:15  (Go, Little Bob
    Unresolved Sexual Tension

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:16:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Once you concede that unhelp is entertaining, it all proceeds to hell from there." - kcr <pbaranay>

>_<

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:16:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who is too fond of putting out fires <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:17:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who is too fond of putting out fires <afarrell>

[something that would sketch out the relevant person but probaly be
funny]

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:18:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Fuck you, Tennessee Williams finds your *mom* a little overwrought" - dvp <pbaranay>

You know, from a humor standpoint, just saying "*insert comment of
$RESPONSE_I_WANT*" doesn't actually work.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:19:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, who is too fond of putting out fires <afarrell>

I know but it relieves some of the tension of wanting to say something
sketchy. plus the curious can ask in personals

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.broken-terminal
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:19:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

[insert expletives here] you

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:22:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh no, Yoshi is on next_house@mailman-alum, which appears to be
unmoderated. I'm afraid.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug 17 00:32:47 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

We will see how that works out...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.zsigs
Time: Wed Aug 17 01:20:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I have said some strange things.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 17 03:01:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... I have no meetings or other schedules tomorrow. This means I can
stay up all night and reset my schedule. :-D

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Wed Aug 17 07:50:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

raaaaage

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Wed Aug 17 08:02:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Oh." testing isn't installable right now.
gnome-desktop-environment Depends: seahorse-plugins (>= 2.30).
gnome-keyring Breaks seahorse-plugins (<< 3.0).
only 2.30.1-4 is in testing.

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Wed Aug 17 08:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Hm, no...

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Wed Aug 17 08:22:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yay, resolved it. Laptop upgrading to testing :-D

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 17 17:18:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

> This means I can stay up all night and reset my schedule. :-D
no comment.

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Wed Aug 17 18:35:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yay, wheezy

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 18:58:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

The fonts suck.

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 18:58:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i ttf-mscorefonts-installer

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 19:54:47 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The meek shall inherit your bones files.
 <rnjacobs>

(starkish) "I've got a copy of Myriad for non-serif, Lucida Typewriter for
non-proportional, and don't like serifed fonts anyway" :p

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:25:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... ia32-libs exists in testing?

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:29:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Is that surprising?  It’s existed in every release since etch.

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:31:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

It's supposed to be gone now that we have multiarch, I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:31:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's not that simple

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:31:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Or at the very least, it shouldn't be the same version as stable
has...?

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:31:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(a) Debian isn't actually multiarched yet because Debian is lame
(b) In order to get rid of ia32-libs you have to multiarch all of the
libraries in ia32-libs, and there are a lot of them

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:32:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, hmm, maybe Debian is actually multiarched now

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:34:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Not quite yet, I’m pretty sure.

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:34:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Everything except something about freebsd is checked off on
http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Bootstrapping

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:36:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

There hasn’t been a dpkg upload since
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/06/msg00002.html
(“a preliminary implementation of multiarch support for dpkg is
available from the 'pu/multiarch/full' branch of
<git://git.debian.org/users/hertzog/dpkg.git>”).

Class: geofft Instance: wheezy
Time: Wed Aug 17 20:36:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

And, uh, I’m still working on fixing debsums.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 17 21:05:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Right, breakfast.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.bts.q
Time: Wed Aug 17 22:06:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Sorry for the delayed response. Turns out my problem was caused by
removing isc-dhcp-client at 5am one morning while drunk."

Class: geofft Instance: debian.bts.q
Time: Wed Aug 17 22:07:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I encourage removing libc while young instead.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.bts.q
Time: Wed Aug 17 22:08:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I suspect it causes more exciting problems.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.bts.q
Time: Wed Aug 17 22:08:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

While young? Is that also a state of intoxication?

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:13:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=585950

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I'm very confused by this guy. I think he filed a bug against his own
package, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:23:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mean, if he's a maintainer and he wants a reminder, that seems sane.

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:23:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Alternatively, maybe he's learned from the OpenSSL fiasco that
sometimes upstreams have good reasons for doing something."

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:24:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Well, his co-maintainer got confused, reminded him that he's a
maintainer, and closed the bug.

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=592680

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 00:51:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Augh! Got trapped Wikipedia-style in the Debian BTS. Escaped now.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Thu Aug 18 05:53:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

This took me way too long to figure out...

git init --bare /path/to/repo.git
git remote add origin /path/to/repo.git
git push -u origin
git fetch

DWYW.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:02:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

One day, when I am a better person, I will subscribe to and read the
Economist.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:02:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I should do that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:02:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Just download all the back issues from JSTOR

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:03:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Wait, do I get current issues via JSTOR?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:04:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ProQuest, but same difference

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:04:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Something you shouldn't write scripted bulk queries against and
execute them from a laptop in SMR"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Wait, why do I have an _unopened_ shrink-wrap of headphones with a
removable normal-to-airline adapter on the end in my bag?

Class: geofft Instance: else.will-never-work-but
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:14:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Maybe the dorms should all boycott CPW to force REX to be important

Class: geofft Instance: else.will-never-work-but
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:15:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

hahahaahahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:50:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh. I get the Economist. I mostly don't read it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:52:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: @NYC 21st-24 @ALB 24-26 @BOS 26->? <afarrell>

Some day, when I am a better person, I will not read the
entirety of the economist when I see a copy just lying there.

Class: geofft Instance: jargon
Time: Thu Aug 18 09:56:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Apparently "aspect-oriented programming" is what the enterprise,
Java-using folks call what we call "LD_PRELOAD".

Class: geofft Instance: jargon
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:05:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0d420f9 [MTD] NAND: Missing fixups <nelhage>

Baaasically, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: currently.listening.to
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:39:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Relient K cover of "Doctor Worm"

Class: geofft Instance: currently.listening.to
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:40:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I don't know how I feel about this existing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:49:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

(starking) The thing about the Economist is that while it's frequently
wrong, at least it's *entertainingly* wrong when it is.

Also, I get a kick out of the CIA recruitment ads.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:56:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

... I wonder if this is an intended vulnerability in the code, or
just incompetence.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:57:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Given that it's PHP I can never tell"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:57:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
incompetence"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:58:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell: @NYC 21st-24 @ALB 24-26 @BOS 26->? <afarrell>

I assume you're just going ahead with cherrypy?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 10:59:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I switched to Flask, actually, after getting frustrated with obscure
details of CherryPy's WSGI handling

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 11:18:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:00:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Why don't people just recompile their own Kerberos from upstream in
/usr/local?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:00:52 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

having multiple kerberos libraries on a system which do not match is
asking for hurt

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:01:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Well, one doesn't work, which makes it easier"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:01:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Actually, it hasn't bitten me too badly, yet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:02:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also I expect that nothing that comes with OS X with the possible
exception of ssh is really Kerberized. Or at the least, you don't
care if it is or not.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:02:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Utilities from the base system don't know about /usr/local, and the
stuff built against /usr/local mostly picks up /usr/local stuff first.
The library version numbers are different, though, which I think is
necessary unless I play rpath games.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:05:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Whoa, Sharepoint.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:05:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

oh, look, mail

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:07:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Pass Thru <kchen>

Apparently "dropdown menus" are a new feature.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:11:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

NOTHING HORRIBLE WILL HAPPEN

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:14:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Awww, they removed the hot plates per "fire code".

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:14:36 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Lamesauce.

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:14:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

From where?  Kitchens or rooms?

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:14:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, induction cooktops

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:15:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Kitchens? In dorms? This is MIT, people don't have time to cook. You
can't be serious.

From the lounges. I think they've always been prohibited in rooms

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:16:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Seriously, get an induction cooktop and some cast-iron cookware.
They're not expensive.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:17:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Edward: It's 6.858 (security), "competence" is "has a vulnerability",
and "incompetence" is... also "has a vulnerability". Neither is malice.

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:17:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Though I bet housing doesn't have the exception-handling necessary to
permit induction cookers.  

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:18:05 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For that matter, I bet the fire department doesn't either.

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:18:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

> induction cooktop

Well, supposing we have some meat at k degrees, it should be simple to
get it to k+1 degrees...

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:18:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

huh?

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:20:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

How else are you supposed to cook by induction?

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:21:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:21:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Why, we assume that we already have meats at all temperatures less than
or equal to k; then, by construction, we can move Joule per kilogram of
heat from one piece of meat to the next, and obtain meat at temperature
k+1.

Class: geofft Instance: nextexec
Time: Thu Aug 18 12:23:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Oh, that works well.

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You know 'r' doesn't work on those?

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Well, on yours

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Known barnowl bug.

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:13:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So don't bother to whine on Trac?

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:15:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think there have been occassion discussions with the conculsion
that we like it this way.

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:17:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

I don't know if the regular style displays this, but there's also the
sending -O PING to -c message -i personal *.

Class: geofft Instance: -c message
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:18:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Catch 3 <kchen>

(unless that was intentional)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:40:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I hate doing string manipulation in C. Especially out of read().

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:42:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yum.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:43:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

We seem to do so earlier in the code with a helper that calls
read(fd, &buf[i], 1) in a loop. Which is ... not the world's worst
response when faced with this situation. (Also, "we seem to have a
helper earlier in this code" implies "just use it, and fix the helper
if you're feeling ambitious^Wmasochistic")

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 13:57:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

RAAAAAGE.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 14:12:26 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Ceres, (134340) Pluto, Charon, (136199) Eris <eichin>

> RAAAAAGE.
so at least you're the right *mood* to do string handling in C...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 14:30:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

All right! zookfs now supports:
 * PATH_INFO
 * page statuses from CGIs other than 200

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 14:33:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

zookfs does not support:
 * FastCGI
 * my sanity

Class: geofft Instance: cve.q
Time: Thu Aug 18 15:36:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"The browser engine in Mozilla Firefox 4.x through 5 does not properly
implement JavaScript"

Class: geofft Instance: cve.q
Time: Thu Aug 18 15:36:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Good thing they released 6"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 15:39:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

All right, enough hating HTTP and CGI for now. -> testing stuff on
Athena

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 15:39:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... where we have a wider variety of protocol for you to hate

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:16:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

All right, Dropbox works, Athena doesn't, next.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:17:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:30:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I mean, that's basically their business model.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:43:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

If I want to have a constant array of string constants, I want
const char * const foo[] = {"foo", "bar", NULL}?
More consts? Fewer consts?

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:48:48 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A glowing potion is too hot to drink.
 <rnjacobs>

What are you actually asking?

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:48:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

fewer...? a string constant is just a name, you don't need that second
constant, right?

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:49:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

(that second const, rather)

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:49:30 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think that's the right number and placement of consts.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:49:34 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that any quantum mechanic knows that speed kills.
 <rnjacobs>

you probably want "const char const *"

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:50:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

No, geofft is right.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:50:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I want to be unable to do all of the following:
foo++
foo[0] = NULL
strcpy(foo[0], "lol");

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:50:47 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I think you need a 3rd const then

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:50:51 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

"const foo[]" so that foo[n] is const.  const char * so that *foo[n]
is const.  foo is itself constant by virtue of being an array.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:51:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Oh, you're right.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:51:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

If Greg and Anders agree with me, I'm going to 1) assume this is
correct and 2) go gouge out all the parts of my brain that know CS,
for getting this right on the first try, and pursue a career busking
in subways.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:52:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/15, 10/4. <tibbetts>

If your subway performances involve writing C code, you'll
have a tough time.

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:52:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(rnjacobs: const char const * would redundantly double-const the
char.  You can only const a * by putting the const after the *.)

Class: geofft Instance: c
Time: Thu Aug 18 16:52:35 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

If you wanted a constant alias to that array, I think you'd want
"const char *const *const foo_alias = foo;".  Although it's a little
uncommon to use const declarations for variables themselves except as
a replacement for #defines in file scope.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Aug 18 17:06:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I am amused that we use PHP scripts with shebang lines because unlike
scripts we didn't feel like special-casing .php

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Aug 18 18:19:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

The door chime here is on scale tones 6 and 4 of "Chasing Cars", so
periodically we get these nice 4-3 suspensions as customers walk in
and on

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Wow, they are seriously trolling with the music. "Wannabe".

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:07:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Alejandro"

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:07:36 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Dreams are the subconscious mind's way of reminding people to go to school naked and have their teeth fall out. <asedeno>

Yes?

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:07:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Sorry, should I have not called your name, not called your name?

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:08:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Also they're singing along :-D

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:08:22 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Space Sphere will never go to space. <asedeno>

Well played. =)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:09:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I should use one of those prompts that tells me what git branch I'm
on.

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:11:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Hips Don't Lie"? You've got to be kidding me

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:17:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:19:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

When did it become 7:30 PM?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:23:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

PS1="${PS1/\\\$/\$(__git_ps1)\\\$}"
Documentation in /etc/bash_completion.d/git.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:23:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Is that stupidly slow?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:25:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I find it completely fine as long as you don't set
GIT_PS1_SHOWDIRTYSTATE, GIT_PS1_SHOWUNTRACKEDFILES, or change
GIT_PS1_DESCRIBE_STYLE.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:28:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I mean, I'm worried that I'll hit enter while in an sshfs share after
falling off the network, and be sad

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:41:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Well, don't do that then.  Or use $(timeout 2 __git_ps1), I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:41:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Well, other than that not being a builtin but sure

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:42:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

We are now listening to All The Ke$ha.

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:54:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

"Oops, I Did It Again"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:57:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I wonder if I'm competent enough to cook lamb

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:58:09 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It's just like cooking python, except easier.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:58:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Well... what isn't.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:58:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It will probably taste better, too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:59:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Beef wellington.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:59:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Cassoulet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 15:59:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

i,i diveintochicken.org

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:25:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Huh, zephyr isn't GPL'd? I guess that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:39:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/6.858/pyzoobar$ echo $GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID
this-is-deprecated

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:39:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But that's not a unique identifier!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:44:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I wonder if the RCC program would work better if it could sustain
larger numbers of students without expecting even an hour a week
commitment from any of them.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:45:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Or, you know, all of the student helpdesk program.
If you're around for enough time to earn money, great. If you're not,
you can come back whenever and we don't want you to formally be on
hiatus.
(This would obviously have logistical issues, but it might result in
more total student time)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:46:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My religious convictions prevent me from joining in the event. <ternus>

I really liked my informal arrangement with the RCCs: I'd occasionally do
enough 'work' to justify having those bits, but wouldn't bill for it.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:46:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Step & Slide <kchen>

At one point, I stopped working OLC hours, and then a semseter or few
later, I started working them again.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:47:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

1. I assume SCRIPT_FILENAME should be set to the actual file on disk,
as opposed to the path it's called by? e.g., add index.cgi and strip
PATH_INFO?
2. Should QUERY_STRING be set to the empty string, or unset, if there
is no question mark in the client-sent URL?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:47:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I've been sensing more of an expectation to do work on a regular
basis. Also, in any case, they interview you like it's a real job

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:48:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <ezyang>

"check the source"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:48:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Of?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:48:26 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What you describe is what I believe PHP does, so "yes".

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:48:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Edward: I am in the highly unfortunate position of writing a web
server that is full of security holes by design.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:49:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I take that back. The more unfortunate position of hacking on a web
server that someone else wrote that is full of security holes by
design, and not fixing any of them, nor tossing the whole thing and
replacing it with lighttpd.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:50:11 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/15, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Why are you writing a web server? Are you the blue team in
a security class?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:50:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:50:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I was going to use my usual instinct and replace everything with
Python, and realized two seconds later that we kind of still want to
teach buffer overflows.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:51:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

(Fortunately we're going to be shifting course content to reflect
stuff that is valid even in the replace-everything-with-Python world,
but it's material that needs to be covered)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:54:44 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/15, 10/4. <tibbetts>

Python is a sideshow in security, replace everyting with
Javascript

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:55:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

We may have discussed that.
The course 6 curriculum, though, ensures that students know Python
and may or may not know other languages including PHP.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:55:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

In seriousness, no promises but it sounds like we're replacing the
DynamoRIO lab with something towards client-side security.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:56:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

You should be able to implement buffer overflows in
python via ctypes

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:56:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Yes, but that's getting _awfully_ contrived.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:57:49 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

sure.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:58:23 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'm only going to... Throw It Away... <eichin>

hmm, does go have strings?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:58:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

Languages that no course 6 students know, partial list. :)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:59:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

FWIW, lab 1 was, by far, the most fun lab in that class. Don't kill
the buffer overflows.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:59:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

I do hear that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 16:59:44 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 8/15, 10/4. <tibbetts>

When I was your age, we just went ahead and taught classes
in langauges the students didn't know.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 17:00:05 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Testing the Future Today... Towards the Unexplored <eichin>

ahh scheme :-)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Fri Aug 19 17:00:20 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I want to say that Go doesn't have buffer overflows.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 17:00:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

i,i When you were my age, nobody actually learned anything in course
6.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Fri Aug 19 17:01:37 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I think someone is following me. (T/F) <eichin>

yeah, looks like it has a native string (const) type.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:02:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 'I was too busy hating CUPS.' -jdreed <geofft>

raaage

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:09:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:09:31 2011 Host: eamp.org
From: They say that you can trust your gold with the king.
 <rnjacobs>

<facepalm>

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:10:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It's like "patches welcome", but more snowcloney.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.d
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:11:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

> "X considered harmful." The rise of this phrasal template was sparked
> by Edsger Dijkstra's 1968 letter to the Communications of the ACM,
> titled "Go To Statement Considered Harmful", as well as the responses
> "'GOTO Considered Harmful' Considered Harmful" and "'"GOTO Considered
> Harmful" Considered Harmful' Considered Harmful?".

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:19:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

*groan*

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Aug 19 19:20:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

<3 `git add -p`
It's a totally reasonable way to do ~commit review for one-person
development. "Did I mean to do that? yes."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 20:07:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Also I need to stop finger-completing to 6.857.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Aug 19 20:09:39 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

At least you get most of it right. For the last 3 days I've typed
"help.mit.edu" instead of "owa.mit.edu" whenever I wanted webmail...

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Sat Aug 20 02:46:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oops, I think I should have been coding or at _least_ sleeping, but I
was defending orthodoxy on Reddit. And found this:
  http://amzn.com/1597523658
I wonder how it relates to "Love Wins", but I get the feeling that I
should read it first.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:19:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh. Stanford's student government is an indepentent 501(c)(3)
organization. (Also has a completely broken website.)
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/04/27/officials-clarify-assu-university-relationship/

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:25:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

In 2009, Senator Palpatine got 124 votes for senate, and Palpatine 10.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:29:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

More seriously, Stanford has a "Special Fee" system for groups who
want more money than Senate or the GSC can give them out of the
General Fee. If you get a petition with n% of the student body, or
you were on the ballot last year with a similar proposal, you can
request a "Special Fee" on the ballot to be charged towards the total
student life fee. Students vote individually on each group requesting
a "Special Fee", and there are about 50 of them, ranging from the
school newspaper to the wind ensemble to several cultural
groups to the radio station to the Shakespeare society.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:35:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(looking at 2009's results.) And in 2009, _all_ those groups had
their special fees approved by the electorate, with support ranging
from just over 50% (humor magazine, TV station, art-and-writing
journal, political journal) to upwards of 80% (Sexual Health Peer
Resources Center, Student Initiated Courses, political awareness
group, club sports, peer counseling, solar car group).

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:36:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It blows my mind that this system works. I would imagine giving every
student a line-item veto on the _biggest_ student-group budgets, and
especially linking them to the fee that students will pay out of
pocket, would fail miserably.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:36:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Oh, the newspaper is also >80%.)

Class: geofft Instance: stanford.d
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:38:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Student-Initiated Courses sounds interesting in its own right.
http://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/registrar/staff/sics

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:39:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://elections.stanford.edu/special-fees/

Class: geofft Instance: stanford.d
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:46:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

SICs can be at most 2 units; for reference, a usual course load for a
quarter is 15 and the unit limit is 20. So that would be like a
6-credit MIT class.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford.d
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:46:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Send email to yourself in the future http://www.boomeranggmail.com/ <afarrell>

why are you reading this?

Class: geofft Instance: stanford.d
Time: Sat Aug 20 04:47:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm generally curious how other schools work. Especially with regards
to student government or curriculum.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 08:03:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Harvard groups have to be their own 501(c)3s because Harvard doesn't let them
use its tax id. I imagine stanford may have a similar situation.
Huge pain.

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Sat Aug 20 13:16:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh. Gutenbach has both a /usr/share/doc/gutenbach-server/README and a
/usr/lib/gutenbach/README, and they are different and both make sense.
jhamrick++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 20 13:26:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

eglibc (2.13-16) unstable; urgency=low

  [ Aurelien Jarno ]
  * The "multiarch starts to piss me off" upload.
  * On i386, install i386 specific headers in the multiarch include
    path, the common and the x86-64 ones in the default include path.
    Closes: #637141.

 -- Aurelien Jarno <aurel32@debian.org>  Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:52:47 +0200

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Aug 20 13:28:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm not sure how I feel with scripts@ being the right place to contact
if you have any questions about any sort of hosting at MIT, whether or
not they're scripts-related (provided they're not
individual-web-app-related).

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Aug 20 13:54:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... did you seriously propose USE flags?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Aug 20 13:54:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... also why am I reading debian-devel instead of eating breakfast

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:01:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] My recollection from my sisters is that each student can
choose which of those fees they want to pay. As a result, the
campaigns look like "Vote for this. It doesn't me you have to pay
anything more."

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:02:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh, so the _actual_ voting is when you pay your fees, not the ballot
for whether the fees show up?

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:03:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Sort of? I think it may take effort to turn down the fees on your bill.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:12:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm: http://tusb.stanford.edu/2010/01/special_fees_finally_gets_an_o.html

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:14:11 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://blog.stanfordreview.org/2010/01/22/abusing-the-refund-the-problem-facing-special-fees/

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:16:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2010/02/03/editorial-reform-the-special-fees-refund-process/

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Sat Aug 20 14:19:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Anyway, basically it appears that after you pay your bill, you can go
to this website and request a refund of some or all of the special
fees that you paid. It's not 100% because (a) there's some amount of
social stigma (maybe?), and (b) it requires effort. Theoretically,
(c) it means that group doesn't need to serve you, but it sounds like
it's hard to identify the people that applies to. (Also, I'd imagine
that for some groups basically nobody but the group members really
benefit anyway. Like the Segway-buying group.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 15:21:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

<3 git blame

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 15:22:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

er, no, I haven't eaten yet. While awesome, I meant to say <3 git
bisect.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 15:29:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Is zoobar.org running a different codebase from us?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 15:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(well, really, have we forked theirs and done nontrivial stuff to it,
even in lab1?)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 16:05:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... is this code written in this way for any reason other than
gratuitious vulnerability?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 16:06:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Most of the rest of the code at least has plausible deniability)

Class: geofft Instance: solaris
Time: Sat Aug 20 16:23:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

[root@52-54-00-12-34-56 ~]# poweroff
poweroff: dangerous on a dialup;use ``poweroff -y'' if you are really sure

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 16:48:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which chunk?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:33:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh look, apparently I badly want scripts to be upgraded to F15.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:36:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: asa.db
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:36:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Or possibly ==

Class: geofft Instance: asa.db
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:39:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, you can get away with that, since it's only going to be
deployed in one place. I suspect developing on distros that don't
exist yet is the wrong answer for courses.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:42:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you moving away from the "here's a VM image" model?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:43:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

No. I just wanted to put it on scripts to make sure it works somewhere
other than my laptop, and for some strange reason, scripts seemed like
an obvious place to deploy a webapp

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:51:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... Hm. The Right Answer for the next problem to solve is "finish your
thesis". I'm worried that won't happen before term starts.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:52:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Send email to yourself in the future http://www.boomeranggmail.com/ <afarrell>

Just due to amount of time?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Aug 20 17:54:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Basically.

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3.prnf
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Heyyyy... Heyyyyyyyy... Hey soul sister...

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:31:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

> As an example of how you might use these features, at MIT we have
> several frequently-used instances of class MESSAGE, called
> "white-magic", "help", "weather", "tmbg" and so forth.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:31:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

!

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:31:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

tmbg?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:32:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. <eichin>

they might be giants

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:32:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS
(boy,) THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:32:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... There was an instance for that? That was the only thing I could
think of, but...

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:33:07 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mean, I guess that shouldn't seem weirder than, like, -c tmbg, and
that doesn't seem any weirder than, say, -c whedonesque...

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:33:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

tyger:/home/geofft/src/debian/zephyr-3.0 geofft$ echo
/mit/zlog/old/*/tmbg
/mit/zlog/old/1999.08/tmbg /mit/zlog/old/2000.01/tmbg
/mit/zlog/old/2000.09/tmbg /mit/zlog/old/2001.02/tmbg
/mit/zlog/old/2004.02/tmbg

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:33:16 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The Rainbow of Doom <eichin>

they were *really* popular on campus (they
played in rockwell cage a couple of times)

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:34:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Apparently there was a bot, like -i bash?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:34:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: fliegerabwehrkanone <eichin>

probably

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:34:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

and the zephyrs came from ... ... the Random laundry sever?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:34:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

*server

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:40:19 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Oh, have you been waiting all this time? I thought you meant the OTHER baths!
I went to the baths clear across the city! I had a lovely wash, and a rubbing
with fragrant oils. Too bad you weren't there -- Stop talking to yourself! -PoP
 <rnjacobs>

There definitely used to be a laundry zephyr annunciator.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr.docs.q
Time: Sat Aug 20 19:41:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that once you've met one wizard you've met them all.
 <rnjacobs>

I thought yoyo had written a new one, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 20 23:53:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Blah. I should have finished cleaning my room _before_ bedtime.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 20 23:54:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I bet my housemates will not appreciate me leaving a bunch of wooden
furniture in pieces in the living room until I get back from the
hackathon...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 20 23:54:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Also it's not like I've prepped for the hackathon)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Aug 21 01:57:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/minissdpd/+bug/813313

i,i KEES SMASH

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Aug 21 02:00:34 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Everything went better than expected?

Class: geofft Instance: hey-guys
Time: Sun Aug 21 04:04:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

If you eat food, you don't feel out of energy any more!

Class: geofft Instance: hey-guys
Time: Sun Aug 21 04:34:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

All right, successfully set up dresser (from Liz) and new piano. This
involved rearranging my room in a way that requires less floor space
(which seems to have turned that space into dumping space) and also
prevents my door from closing, but I think I can deal with that later.

Class: geofft Instance: devices
Time: Sun Aug 21 04:36:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hm, $100 webOS tablets.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 13:42:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Y'all should come to the hackathon! It's a Debian/Ubuntu bug-squashing
event, and we have a handful of folks from the Debian and Ubuntu
communities to help you figure out what's going on.

I've been building a list of useful things to do out of the Debian
bug tracker, and they've been ranging from requiring zero programming
knowledge (trying to reproduce a bug and document what happens more
precisely) to all of it (tracking down obscure kernel crashes)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug 21 13:42:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(-> SIPB)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:00:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

How late will you all be at it? I may end up with free time today, and
I'm in town.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:01:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

At least 10, probably more.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:01:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"until people want to go home"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:03:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

I'll swing by if I can. It'd be nice to put faces to names.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:05:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

> put faces to names

i,i "I hear we have meetings"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:05:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

"I live in New York"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:06:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dazed and confused, but trying to continue. <glasgall>

(why am I on zephyr? it's a very long story.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:06:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

ah, that makes more sense.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 14:46:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I feel like I can't complain about bugs.debian.org being slow until
debathena.mit.edu/trac isn't

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 15:04:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

-> geofft / sipb.d / AUTH: glasgall  2011-08-21 14:06:01  (Dazed and confused, but trying to continue.) / DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
       (why am I on zephyr? it's a very long story.)

One of these days I want to hear the story...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Aug 21 15:07:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, if both of you show up to the hackathon...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Aug 21 15:52:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

For those who care, rra says Stanford is still using
openafs-modules-source + m-a (what we did before this summer), not
openafs-modules-dkms

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Aug 21 17:18:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

#!/usr/bin/include <stdio.h>

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Aug 21 17:20:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Aug 21 17:23:26 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... that's almost like tcc -run

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 20:59:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I have a multics account now.

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:00:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Why the instance?

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:01:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Presumably it implies linerva maintainers can't stomach their own dogfood.

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:01:39 2011 Host: 18.111.124.131
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

It's not a competition.  Sometimes you need a solaris machine

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:01:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Saying it's not a competition doesn't make it not a competition.
[multics!jhawk] ~> uptime
  9:01pm  up 1323 day(s), 20:39,  17 users,  load average: 1.21, 0.84, 0.66

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:02:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

==Karl

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:02:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

The "not a competition" wasn't about uptime, jhawk.

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:02:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ uname
Linux

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:03:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Anyway, I wanted to figure out if I should expect something to
compile on non-Linux Debian, and "does it compile on Solaris-Athena"
was a close enough approximation.

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:03:44 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why didn't you just install *bsd into a VM?

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:03:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Because Ben went and made me an account first :-(

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:06:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

What the crap is this platform, tar xzf doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:06:16 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

gtar

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:06:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

tar: ././@LongLink: typeflag 'L' not recognized, converting to regular file
tar: ././@LongLink: typeflag 'L' not recognized, converting to regular file
tar: directory checksum error

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:06:49 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... with gtar?

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:06:50 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: information wants to be free to kill again <eichin>

gnu locker

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:07:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

cc: Warning: option -- passed to ld
cc: Warning: illegal option -d=gnu99
cc: illegal option -Wall

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:07:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

bsdtar!

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:09:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Okay, Solaris has a non-compliant getpwuid_r. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:18:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh, Debian uses eglibc everywhere. Never mind!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:20:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

pam_handle_t
panhandle_t

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:29:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

All right, libpam-google-authenticator now compiles on Solaris. I'm
sure that was useful.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:52:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Haha, spang, broder, and I seem to have all fixed the same bug. "oops"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:55:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

The lesson for next time is to have better coordination about taking
bugs. I guess Etherpad would have sufficed.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:56:57 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No, no Johnny -- You got twelve, they got twelve. <eichin>

aren't you all in the same room?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:57:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, broder isn't. "Also he fixed this in May"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 21 21:58:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

But we were being loud and I didn't catch what the other end of the
room was talking about

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sun Aug 21 22:14:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2759c8d [wireless airo] remove needed dma_addr_t obfuscation <nelhage>

multics is *not* useful for a test case for anything other than
Athena 9.fucked.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Aug 21 22:28:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

You can't forcemerge across packages? Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Aug 21 22:28:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Why is it called forcemerge, then"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:23:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

This year was _long_.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:24:53 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why do you say that?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:25:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:25:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(==Alex, that is.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:26:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I dunno. It feels like a lot of things have happened since the
beginning of fall.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:53:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Swift Linux 0.1.2 (based on antiX Linux M11) is now available at
http://www.swiftlinux.org.  There are two plain vanilla editions
(Diet Swift Linux and Regular Swift Linux) and three special editions
(Taylor Swift Linux, Minnesota Swift Linux, and Chicago Swift Linux).

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:54:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i,i she uses rpm I use dpkg she's got a libexec and I've got /etc/default

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:57:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... .... ... can SIPB be a GSoC sponsoring organization?

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:58:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

"Why not"

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:58:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

I mean, if you can convince Google to give you funding...

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Sun Aug 21 23:58:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Then I would have to figure out how to launder^Wdeal with the funds"

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Mon Aug 22 00:17:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Send email to yourself in the future http://www.boomeranggmail.com/ <afarrell>

Do we have anyone besides oremanj who has mentored people through GSOC

Class: geofft Instance: esp
Time: Mon Aug 22 00:18:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Adam is a SIPB member."

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 02:30:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh, Debian testing only had SQLAlchemy 0.6.x until today?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 02:30:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

also,
- I hate aptitude
- I wonder if I should do like price and e-mail debian-devel

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 02:40:17 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

What about aptitude do you hate?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 07:36:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jessica <jesstess>

       - I wonder if I should do like price and e-mail debian-devel

Yes. People appreciated price's e-mail for encouraging other groups to
run similar events.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 10:20:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Do you want people to email you what they worked on?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:31:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

yes plz

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:33:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

rnjacobs: it prefers to upgrade nmh and remove debathena stuff than
keep nmh at its current version

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:33:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

lso aptitude full-upgrde nmh: stopped working

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:34:08 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

<facepalm> The solver is such shit.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:34:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

it got worse since 0.4.x.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:34:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1f09f97 [PATCH] release_task: replace open-coded ptrace_unlink() <nelhage>

But it can play Sudoku!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:35:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

really? i assume it will go "remove the numbers already on the grid,
and libc too for good measure"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:36:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a9ee4c8 ocfs2: better error handling during assert master message <nelhage>

Hahaha. Probably.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:36:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:36:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a1c0643 GFS2: Move journal live test at transaction start <nelhage>

I feel like aptitude hasn't tried to remove-the-world for me in a
while.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:36:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 77bcf0f [PATCH] idefloppy: suppress media not present errors <nelhage>

It certainly used to do so regularly.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:37:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Then you haven't been using it enough.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:37:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 44b579d V4L/DVB (4548): Better temporal filter handling. <nelhage>

Although now that I think about this, this is also broadly correlated
with "I stopped using Debathena"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:37:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: galleria
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:38:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

master wok and sepal are next to each other. "can i get a combo with
fried rice, orange chicken, and falafel?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:39:42 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I, er, tried fixing the solver by adding
"aptitude::ProblemResolver::RemoveScore "-25000";" to root's and my
~/.aptitude/config ... it only sometimes works.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 22 16:40:31 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... in fact, it seems to fairly reliably only keep packages I don't care about
(renames) and tries to remove the ones I do.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Aug 22 17:06:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

PRESS RELEASE: BIT.LY OFFERS FREE ACCOUNTS TO LIBYAN INSURGENCY
"We'll shorten Gaddafi's URLs, they'll shorten Gaddafi's rule," says
CEO

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Aug 22 17:18:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Linerva uses sysvinit? How mainstream.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.eip.q
Time: Mon Aug 22 17:25:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"I like to think of the aptitude score as 'the number of shots you
should take before you might be able to find this acceptable'"

Class: geofft Instance: debian.eip.q
Time: Mon Aug 22 17:26:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Note: I don't *actually* suggest testing it out.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 22 18:54:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Mon Aug 22 21:18:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/454795/2b1fc63ba89808a3/

tmem sounds really cool, but I wonder what I want to use it for.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug 22 21:47:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Deal with ALL the things!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:09:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hm, do we have virtualization-capable hardware lying around...?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:10:12 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

WAYRTTD? debuild is idle right now...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:18:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sigh* I, uh, promised to look into this for Karl ages ago. :(

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:19:13 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"We have a scripts server that isn't in prod."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:19:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

Actually, I was just looking for "can run the industrial
vmware server product"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:33:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Poke at stuff for XVM?
Hm, I guess the right answer for that is "the dev cluster."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 00:46:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I ... bet I should go home and stay on a reasonable sleep schedule.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:32:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, does that require hardware virt these days?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:32:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That's ESX, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:34:19 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

I don't think it requires hardware virt and ESX sounds
right, but I confess I don't know the product line

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:34:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Geoff, why did you ever not think "the dev cluster" was the right
answer there?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:35:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I forgot we had one.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:35:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(and I forgot that they're all VMs, so we can in theory add another
one easily)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 23 01:35:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Okay, yeah, probably ESX / ESXi / vSphere / some-other-name-IIRC. I,
uh, have a little familiarity these days. Less than I should, possibly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 23 02:01:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://media.lawrence.com/img/marketplace/coupons/2011/01/21/365316_JHawkLawlow_t670.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Aug 23 02:13:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Guys, "Fix bugs (LP: #nnnnnn, LP: #nnnnnn)" is not an adequate
changelog entry!

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Aug 23 02:14:01 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You want the bug-title there?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Aug 23 02:15:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Or something. Is this a packaging bug? Did you add patches to fix it?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 12:41:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 13:39:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> Beantowne -> W91 -> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:09:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Where by "->" I mean "first, upgrading my laptop and filing bugs
against lintian about a spurious comma"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:09:25 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> lintian ... spurious comma
I approve!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:09:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://bugs.debian.org/639018

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:50:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... is the tech shuttle running?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:52:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, I'd expect it to be.  (I'm aware of what NextBus says)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 23 14:53:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

ah, there it is.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:23:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

whoa, robots.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:24:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

also dammit osiris stop beeping

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:24:17 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What is osiris?

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:24:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i dunno! run stella

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:24:52 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

A.. dell 2650?

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:25:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

it's not the robot. it's just beeping.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:25:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

huh, the network is AMAIL-NET.  I wonder what that is.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:25:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

alumni mail, presumably

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:25:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Acey Deucey <kchen>

ah:
        Network:  AMAIL-NET
    Description:  For sending admissions e-mail

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:25:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

does dost have live cds for me?

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:26:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... huh?

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:26:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(or does anyone in w92? is anyone in w92 on my class?)

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:27:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i don't have a live cd on me. i am remiss as a nerd, i know

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:27:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I mean, I don't have a live CD on me, either.
But I do have installation media.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

does it give me /bin/sh? that's close enough to live

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:28:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yes.  (Not bash; not dash.  /bin/sh)

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:28:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i do not think 00020003-0004-0005-0006-000700080009 is a guid.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:28:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It gives you that, and almost nothing else.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:29:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... that's my luggage combination!

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:29:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:31:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

you know what w91 needs? a cokecomm next door

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:31:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a52d9a8 Btrfs: Extent based page cache code.  This uses an rbtree of extents and tests instead of buffer heads. <nelhage>

That's the UUID on my desktop!

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:31:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(yes yes store e40. doesn't count)

Class: geofft Instance: w91.d
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:34:46 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Space Directory) <eichin>

ITYM "That's the combination on my luggage!" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:35:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 30ee42b pkt_sched: Fix noqueue_qdisc initialization. <nelhage>

No, it's actually the UUID on my desktop:

[nelhage@psychotique:~]$ sudo dmidecode -s system-uuid
00020003-0004-0005-0006-000700080009

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:35:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Are you using some form of NVIDIA chipset?

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:36:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e217e30 [ALSA] usb-audio support for Turtle Beach Roadie <nelhage>

yep

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:36:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

What a coincidence.

Class: geofft Instance: w91
Time: Tue Aug 23 15:39:13 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is it an NVIDIA chipset bug? I have a real uuid on a machine of mine
that has such a chipset.

Class: geofft Instance: else.mix.prnf
Time: Tue Aug 23 16:20:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

dvpathena

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Aug 23 18:21:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-qa/2011/08/msg00059.html

"The goal is to get every participant to file a few dozen FTBFS bugs"

awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 23 23:29:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

okay where was I. caffeine?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 24 00:25:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Giving up on sleep for the next while, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 24 00:53:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh, /etc/shadow is mode 000? I guess that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 24 00:54:16 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because who needs mode-bits when you're root?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 24 00:55:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

All right, let's go through install-ldap in order.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 24 00:55:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug 24 01:47:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I swear I'm competent. Sometimes. Maybe if I have caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 24 17:01:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 24 17:06:18 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Good afternoon!

Class: geofft Instance: cac
Time: Wed Aug 24 17:15:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

WTF, how is that in any way acceptable.

Class: geofft Instance: cac
Time: Wed Aug 24 17:16:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Particularly the part where you point out that it's not acceptable
that you did that.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 24 17:16:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> afk

Class: geofft Instance: cac
Time: Wed Aug 24 19:03:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: cac
Time: Wed Aug 24 19:03:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

You should take a look at this e-mail at some point.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Aug 24 22:27:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

In the last 48 hours, my laptop's mad netbooting skillz have saved
two SIPB servers!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Aug 24 22:39:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, sort of.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 24 23:36:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Don't have the attention span for any coding/sysadminning/etc. right
now. I wonder if I'll be better if I eat and camp out somewhere, or
if I just want to go home and sleep soon.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Aug 25 05:56:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/08/msg00568.html

"I think the preferred form of modification for a, say, RSA
certificate is the two prime numbers that were used to generate the
key pair. Are they included in the package?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:27:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Augh. I _really_ need to figure out what I'm doing with my life in
January.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:27:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Working on Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:28:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

weren't you considering getting a Ph.D?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:32:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, yes, but I can only start doing that in the fall (or really, in
_a_ fall). So if I do decide that that's the route I want, I need to
figure out what I'm doing with myself until then. Or decide that I
want to wait a couple years (or indefinitely).

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:33:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(And in any case I need to apply places...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 25 16:34:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> afk really

Class: geofft Instance: plan-for-today
Time: Thu Aug 25 17:57:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> ASA -> hack on scripts and Debathena a bit -> hack on TA stuff a
lot

Class: geofft Instance: asa-midway
Time: Thu Aug 25 18:36:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Haha, someone requested to be in the "twinkie corner"

Class: geofft Instance: asa-midway
Time: Thu Aug 25 18:36:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: mail.juxta
Time: Thu Aug 25 18:39:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Subject: Contact information for the MIT Vegetarian Society
Subject: RE: Animal-free proteins for your research!

Class: geofft Instance: mail.juxta
Time: Thu Aug 25 18:41:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

cell-free protein expression is some fascinating and ever so slightly
creepy shit

Class: geofft Instance: mail.juxta
Time: Thu Aug 25 18:46:07 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, how do you express proteins without cells?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 19:50:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Can we wear group clothing around campus during the moratorium?"
"No, we're going to stop you and make you strip."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 20:00:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

I have never seen a solid, document-based history of the ASA
recruiting rules.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 20:02:06 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

I once heard Jen claim that it was something the student group
government was asked to do because of complaints from administrators
that freshmen were confused and intimidated by all the stuff they saw
during their first week on campus.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.juxta
Time: Thu Aug 25 20:52:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

You purify RNA polymerase and ribosomes and amino acids and some of
the other accessory stuff you need, then put it all in solution with a
DNA sequence of interest and wait.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.juxta
Time: Thu Aug 25 20:55:02 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wow.  I'm mildly surprised that that actually works--neat.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 21:20:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"We'll pay you."
"Aim at the group presidents, not the frosh."

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 21:27:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

adehnert: "You not being on asa-fysm is a bit dubious, because half
  the questions are about the Database."
geofft: "I'm not doing the Database."
adehnert: "You have the second-most commits!"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 21:27:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Alex has 223 commits. I have 5. Nobody else has any)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 21:30:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

adehnert: "Some pretty quality commits, one of which changed more
than one line. It changed two, because you had an if and an endif."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 22:59:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Why do we continue to have recruiting rules even without a REX
agreement?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:01:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

1. Because even in the absence of a REX agreement, it's in everyone's
mutual interest to loosely follow it, and ASA on behalf of the
student groups is deciding not to be the ass that defects in an
iterated prisoners' dilemma
2. Because there are reasons other than interfering with REX (and
Rush, which we _do_ interfere with) for the rules, go read the top of
the rules

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:03:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Note that the dorms and FSILGs are not majorly violating the
agreement even though it doesn't exist)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:04:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

3. I don't think we're invited to the REX/Rush talks, even when they
were happening. That's a D/FSILG thing.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:06:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(So there's no reason that the agreement not getting signed (which
has been happening for years) or the talks not happening (which is
new this year) should change anything.)

Class: geofft Instance: lapentab
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:20:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

zsig++

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:31:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...why should they be related? Groups not fucking each other over is
different than residences not fucking each other over -- east/west
aside, where you live has relatively little to do with what groups you
choose to join

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:44:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Dorms and FSILGs have exploited the lack of rush agreement. I don't see
why student groups should be held to a higher standard.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:45:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh? What have they been doing?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:45:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, have you read the (for lack of a better word) preamble?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:46:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

On one hand, I agree with you -- my instinct is that, if you had to
choose between having a REX/Rush agreement and having recruitment
rules, it would be better to ditch the recruitment rules. On the other
hand, I think I just think that way because I've seen minor examples
of rush agreement violations and not seen violations of the
recruitment rules.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:55:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Django is weird

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:56:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Crap, I just lost a club."

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:57:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Only 472 to go!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Aug 25 23:58:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Hmm, maybe the explanation of where the ASA's recruiting rules came
from can be found in old meeting minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:00:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If you find one, let us know.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:03:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Awwwww, the ASA had a publication called the "SAD"? (Probably a
Student Activities Directory.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:15:24 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Music and Blasters and Old Jedi Masters <brians>

The recruiting rules were inexplicable in 1996.  But they were
*mostly* to avoid freshmen being taken in by a student group that
didn't have housing---so that there were a few days for fraternities
to run off with 40% of the male freshman class.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:16:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Interesting idea! I could get behind that.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:16:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

Of course, fraternity rush starts at CPW...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:17:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

I guess the first Campus Preview Weekend which took more than women
and underrepresented minorities was in 1999.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:18:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

So the minutes include:

/mit/asa/about/minutes/1995/exec.meeting.95.0826

Rush Postering Restriction -
 Agreed that the rule that student activities can't poster until the Midway
 is silly.  Agreed to attempt to get rule changed.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:19:00 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

And then five years later, with no prior discussion in the minutes:


/mit/asa/about/minutes/2000/exec.meeting.00.06.08
5.      A. Rush Rules

        No free fruit, unless you want to form the "Free fruit club"
        (maybe).

        You shouldn't hold open events/flyer until after the
        Activities Midway (which is the kickoff). But, like, you can
        wear t-shirts. Use common sense. Please don't hold open
        "recruiting" events during Orientation before the Activities
        Midway; we're nice. Please do not poster, before the Midway,
        *anything* about any of your events (recruiting or
        otherwise). (You can still do whatever you want with your
        bulletin board, but that's not something we're going to tell
        them unless they ask. :) Orientation has a lock on publicity
        for the period anyway so ha ha sucks to be you. This rule will
        be enforced.

        Put it on the web page as soon as it's ready. :) Information
        is Good. Speaking of, PDF versions of the SAD will be up, and
        we're asking for that as an mit.edu spotlight.

...
        D. Official mail in mid-August, contents:
                - rush rules paragraph

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:19:39 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Also in 2000-era minutes, just for fun:
 http://web.mit.edu/asa/about/minutes/2000/exec.meeting.00.03.14

*Financing the SAD
------------------
...
We cannot allow ourselves to be screwed on the SAD money. 

http://web.mit.edu/asa/about/minutes/2000/exec.meeting.00.04.04
GBM: don't be late.
prepare.
dress appropriatetly.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:19:50 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

http://web.mit.edu/asa/about/minutes/2000/exec.meeting.00.05.24
People who don't want combo locks (we need to talk to them):
IFC is paranoid.
Debate is being stupid.
MITSFS is paranoid.
APO + ESP, perhaps.

...

Midway

If the number of groups remains under 250, we will remain on one
floor.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:29:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"The Hipstery Channel"

Class: geofft Instance: next-forum
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:48:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

wtf

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Aug 26 00:53:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It's still weird to me that Django is at a version greater than 1.0

Class: geofft Instance: django
Time: Fri Aug 26 02:26:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

https://code.djangoproject.com/changeset/13996

Class: geofft Instance: django
Time: Fri Aug 26 02:39:13 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 26 03:36:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... geez, _Chicago Pizza_ is closing in twenty minutes? I am behind on
things I wanted to do today, oops.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 26 05:07:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... ... okay, why has my mind been thinking my full-screen
gnome-terminal is secretly PuTTY on Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 26 05:07:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(in terms of subconscious keyboard shortcuts)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 26 11:14:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I don't feel like staying awake any more

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Aug 27 04:23:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh hey, I'm running a 64-bit Linux laptop, that means I can complain
to davidben about all my Flash issues

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Aug 27 08:39:47 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] only if you have 32-bit Flash installed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 27 15:01:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Awake. Still haven't fixed my sleep schedule _or_ done anything
productive with my life in the last two days or so

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sat Aug 27 15:29:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I bet we should close our windows.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sat Aug 27 15:31:16 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Burton-Conner Plant just came around and closed ours.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sat Aug 27 15:34:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I bet we should also take our AC out of the window.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sat Aug 27 15:38:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (o_O <mats_a>

oh yes, I forgot to warn people about that... >_<

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sat Aug 27 17:22:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh, huh. "Mayor Michael Bloomberg discouraged people from removing
air-conditioning units, saying any benefits could easily be
outweighed by units accidentally falling into apartments or out of
the window."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/26/hurricane-irene-questions-and-answers/

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic.prnf
Time: Sat Aug 27 17:26:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Death and destruction! Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Aug 27 18:35:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Charging my spare 98 Wh battery (the usual one is 48 Wh). I am ready
for this hurricane!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:13:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

The problem with eating is that then you become hungry.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:19:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

http://meninhats.com/d/20041108.html

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:29:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Okay, I found the world's worst man page

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:30:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In Debian, you say?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:31:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

man /mit/geofft/Public/worst-man-page-ever.gz

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:32:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Apparently it's reasonable in Squeeze, hm.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:32:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:33:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7049e68 [SPARC64]: Add prefetch support. <nelhage>

i,i h2man

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:34:07 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

"That's no man page! That's an include file!"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 19:48:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(reported as http://bugs.debian.org/639543)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Aug 27 21:07:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

discuss archive on menelaus, aus, aus, eh, eh, eh

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Aug 27 21:38:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Maintainer replies: "Ewww, yes. I'm seeing that too here. Apologies,
this is *not* meant to be happening...!"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:08:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Crap, I bet it's too late to ask about Ask SIPB.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:08:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Are the Tech's orientation issues this (upcoming) week or next?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:08:39 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Too late in the season or in the night?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:09:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

In the season. As in, I bet they wanted to know about it in advance
and assuming they did, want text ready to publish by 5pm...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:09:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... *wanted, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:10:35 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I bet they'd take it other weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:10:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left 1/4 Thru <kchen>

Depends on what you consider "orientation issues" -- since The Tech
only publishes twice a week and not daily during orientation these
days, I'm not sure there's much of a distinction.  Although
http://tech.mit.edu/ads/schedule.html says August 26, 30, and
September 2.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:10:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Sure, but there's an R-word benefit in publishing it this week :-)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:11:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

> since The Tech only publishes twice a week and not daily during
> orientation these days,

Okay, that's useful to know. I guess we should just try to get it out
weekly early in term

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:47:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I also bet it is too late to upgrade Linerva to squeeze

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:48:09 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

nah.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:48:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

If you were ops, sure, it would have been too late a while ago.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:48:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, as things go, keeping Lenny on security support until IAP is
probably the easiest of crappy situations to be in, largely 'cause
Lenny's still security-supported

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:49:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm more worried about scripts, which is also (presumably) past that
date, and also three months out of security support

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:49:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

It's easy, but it kinda sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:50:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

If I had more hardware, I wouldn't object to _also_ running a squeeze
64-bit dialup.

Class: geofft Instance: piano
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:51:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

. o O { I wonder if my piano has any buffer overflows }

Class: geofft Instance: piano
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:51:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: HELLO my name is <kcr>

Almost certainly.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:52:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: fa7f7d6 [PATCH] swsusp: progress in percent <nelhage>

"If I wanted to root you, it wouldn't matter what it's running. And
if the script kiddies wanted to root you, you'd have ample notice no
matter what you're running"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:53:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Sure.
Like I said earlier, it's depressing how little I've had to panic
about backporting stuff to F13. (Or encouraging. Maybe we finally
figured out security?)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 03:54:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0142f9d [CPUFREQ] check sysfs_create_link return value <nelhage>

It's more a case of Dan Rosenberg being distracted by obsolete
architectures and Android.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Aug 28 04:02:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Good morning!

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Aug 28 04:08:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e088ad7 [SPARC64]: Verify all trap_per_cpu assembler offsets in trap_init() <nelhage>

Goooooooood morning, geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Sun Aug 28 06:24:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well that could have gone better. Sausage ended up a bit too
blackened, and I cut my finger chopping an onion. By the time I got
back after finding a bandaid the pasta had started to burn to the
bottom of the pot.

That said, the sausage appears to have actually turned out fine.

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Sun Aug 28 06:25:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Also apparently my usual rule of thumb to start pasta before the
sausage doesn't work if it's not precooked sausage

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:33:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh, Park Street is still doing a thing -- "special prayer and
worship service". Impressive

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:33:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm almost tempted to go to the 8:30 one out of curiosity. Almost.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:52:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I noticed that, but keep in mind that the T isn't running (after 8).
I probably don't want to walk across a bridge today....

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:56:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I have a bike. I'm unconvinced biking across a bridge is any better,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:58:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

You culd probably get a cab, or a ride from some other
church member.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 07:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"But that takes all the fun out of it."

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Aug 28 08:09:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

If I _really_ wanted to get to church I'd probably figure out what the
Catholic congregation two blocks away is doing.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:27:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> more hardware
Uh, don't we?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:29:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hardware I want to run a public dialup on?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:29:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(i.e., sufficiently beefy hardware that won't be wanted in short
order?)

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:33:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Via Reddit, of Somerville:
http://i.imgur.com/mSHbC.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:33:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Winds totally did not feel that strong.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Aug 28 11:35:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

There can be occasional gusts.  And it looks like the tree was
partially rotted.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Aug 29 03:18:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

croudsurfing
croudsourcing

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Aug 29 03:18:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

er, *crowd, can't type yet.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug 29 03:29:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I wish my external monitor worked.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Aug 29 03:51:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I really really like Rachel's paraphrased descriptions of "groups to
be near" and "groups to be far" in Midway requests :)

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Aug 29 08:30:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yay! I just realized that I've been running without my battery
plugged in since about 1 AM.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:30:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

One of these days I will make control@bugs.debian.org not think I'm an
idiot

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:31:06 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:32:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Last week during the BSP I had trouble merging too bugs. Yesterday I
used "title" instead of "retitle". Today I Cc'd it on something that
wasn't control-related _at all_.

Fortunately I started my e-mail with "Thanks,", so we'll see what
happens

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:33:09 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I have no idea how the Debian bugtracker works... so, uh, what does
title and retitle mean?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:35:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Kind of makes you appreciate LP, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:36:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

The Debian bugtracker works as follows:
- If you want to file a new bug report, e-mail submit@bugs.debian.org.
Include Package:, Version:, and optionally some other headers at the top of
your message body, followed by a blank line.
- If you want to comment on a bug report, e-mail [bug
number]@bugs.debian.org.
- If you want to do things to a bug report, e-mail
control@bugs.debian.org and send it commands of the form "severity
123456 wishlist", etc.
- The control bot will stop processing when it reaches a line saying
"thanks", "bye", etc., so you often use it by Ccing it on a mail to
humans, and putting your commands at the top followed by "thanks"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:36:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Anyway, I hit reply-all on such a mail, and so the control bot
attempted to process my entire mail.

Looks like it decided I had no idea how to use it, and sent me both an
e-mail saying all of my lines were invalid, and a separate e-mail with
help instructions

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:36:47 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought the control-bot would also listen on NNNNN@@bugs.debian.org.
(Though, it didn't work for me, so.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:36:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It explicitly does not listen there.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:37:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Which is why I had a mail to reply-all; it's not uncommon to e-mail
the bug number and Cc control.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:39:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh.  Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:40:08 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Most of my exposure to the BTS has been through debian-bsd getting
cc'd on random stuff)

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:42:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"... pleased to announce the 2012 Defending the Faith Apologetics
Cruise. This six day cruise aboard the Royal Caribbean Mariner of the
Seas will set sail from Galveston, TX sailing to the Western
Caribbean Costa Maya, Cozumel and Belize."

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Mon Aug 29 11:43:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

sounds fun... except for the apologetics part

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug 29 15:24:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Mmm, git rm -rf.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug 29 15:25:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"It's like rm -rf, but with more version control"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 15:31:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Huh, there's no place to store mode bits of the root directory.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:02:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oops. Not what I meant to do with my repo.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:02:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm ... surprised that worked

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:06:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

no, that didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:10:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:11:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

AUGH. How do I insert a tree into my index?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:13:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Why is everyone meeping???

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:13:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

@@road-runner(beep!beep!)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:13:46 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

meeg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:14:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

meeple :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:14:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Mweeeeeble.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:15:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Maybe I can't?)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:15:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

OKAY GIT TTANTS COMMIT TREE OKAY

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:20:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh, the ... index doesn't include trees and just blobs with slashes in
their names?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:20:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Can I construct trees without the index?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:20:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

*facepalm* mktree yes

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:33:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> How do I insert a tree into my index?
git read-tree

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:35:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Not what I meant. That seems to be "given a tree, how do I check it
out as my index", not "given a tree, how do I do the equivalent of git
adding it"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:36:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

How do you think those are different?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:37:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Oh, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:39:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Anyway, git commit-tree $(git ls-tree HEAD | sed | git mktree) was
what I wanted.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Aug 29 16:39:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(For some value of "wanted")

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 17:51:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 17:53:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What'd they do now?

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:03:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Have you ever run the compile? It prints out ASCII art fractals as
its progress indicator

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:06:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

yeah, <3

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:06:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Greg Price! Can I ask you lots of questions about PyPy in personals!

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:07:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Sure!  Bear in mind my internet connection is flaky right now because
Comcast is just as bad witha business connection as a home one.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:08:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also you might get more informed responses asking on, oh, Quora and
asking Alex Gaynor to answer.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:08:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(We are working on getting a not-Comcast connection)

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:16:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 825d0a9 change rivafb_remove to __devexit <nelhage>

I should really get a working PyPy environment one of these days. 

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:16:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 67664c8 [PATCH] i386: Dont use IPI broadcast when using cpu hotplug. <nelhage>

ETOOMANYPLOTS

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:16:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

==

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:16:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's actually pretty easy if you just download a release tarball.
Or a nightly.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:17:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(You want to do that first even if you want to build it yourself, because
the build is about 2x faster in PyPy.  And is very slow.)

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:20:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6a14f58 ALSA: hda: Added a STAC_HP_M4 quirk <nelhage>

"It's like how the Linux kernel is microoptimized for building itself"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:24:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

The 6.858 course staff is currently trying to figure out how PDFs
work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:24:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Tentative conclusion: they don't.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:25:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5c2cec1 ehea: fix might sleep problem <nelhage>

That's basically my impression.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:25:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... In what sense?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:36:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

So Nickolai has this paper he's publishing, where on pages that
graphics are included the italics and kerning look kind of funky. I
had him run it through acroread -toPostScript, which fixes the letter
appearance issue, but stops one of the boxes in the graphic from being
striped grey (it's now solid grey).

Ramesh and I stared at it for a bit and then started wildly guessing
at LaTeX packages.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:40:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Heh, yeah, the same forces definitely apply.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:40:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0d7abd6 input: HID needs to distinguish between two types of A4Tech        two-wheel mice. <nelhage>

Aw, I was hoping you guys were working on some kind of assignment
about PDF exploits.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:41:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==, what a letdown

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:43:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:44:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"It's about printing, it _has_ to be mundane"

Class: geofft Instance: pypy.d
Time: Mon Aug 29 18:57:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... huh, help() spawns a less process. I guess that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 29 19:17:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: w20-5
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:09:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

studentlife.mit.edu water bottles in the lobby, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: w20-5
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:10:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, cool.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:29:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://apters.com/

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:32:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can't read Haskell but the slides look kind of interesting

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:40:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I like the idea of using content hashes of dependencies. This is kind
of like my crazy idea for forking other programs and incorporating
their contents that I (think I) talked about a while back.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:40:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I wonder what othe systems use that?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Aug 29 21:57:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

WHY IS EVERYONE E-MAILING US

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Aug 30 02:52:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"You can do this, but you may need to speak French."
"Je ne parle pas français."
"C'est très unfortunate."
"Sí! ... wait."

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:08:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://splendidbacon.com/

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:11:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... that is not the bacon I was promised

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:12:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

davidben found this in the ... Chrome source?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:12:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

In the list of super-secure websites

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:12:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Haha, with a "pinned" key?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:13:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And here you are not even giving it the https: link it's worked so hard
to secure.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:13:11 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

The HSTS list

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:13:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Actually this is just the preloaded HSTS list. The only sites with
pinned keys are Google sites.)

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:13:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I see, I read something that conflated the two mechanisms.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:13:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

I likd simon.butcher.name (see at e.g.
http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/net/base/transport_security_state.cc?view=markup
)

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:15:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

price: Yeah, the pinned keys stuff is built on top of the mechanisms
for the preloaded HSTS list.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:16:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

stripe.com, getting in early

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Aug 30 03:16:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

and www.noisebridge.net

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 05:22:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

been awake for 30 hours. that was fun, but time to sleep for 15.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:42:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Online for about five minutes, anything interesting happen?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:42:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

HI GEOFFT W20 EXPLODED

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:43:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

But more seriously: when do interesting things ever happen on zephyr?
When people mix, I guess. 

Oh, a frosh couldn't find the 5th floor of the student center and thus
couldn't find SIPB. That might count as entertaining.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:59:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

> when do interesting things ever happen on zephyr?

I mean, I forgot to charge my phone last night, so possibly things
like "what the hell, $service has been down since noon"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

or "where are you, your dad and advisor have been calling the SIPB
office looking for you", or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 19:59:41 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Luckily, none of the major services you care about fell over. But then
again, XVM did.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 20:00:23 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And of course, as I say this, o-f falls out of the pool.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.what
Time: Tue Aug 30 21:12:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

To: "xprod@mit.edu" <xprod@mit.edu>, xprod <xprod@EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU>

Class: geofft Instance: mq.what
Time: Tue Aug 30 21:13:47 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-85.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

the exchange servers are doing stupid stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 21:41:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... ... oops, started replying to mail and totally forgot to go back
to Squares. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 21:51:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Also I am not shifted properly enough to do _phone interviews_ blargh

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Tue Aug 30 22:09:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Wait, the new guy who's teaching 6.892 is the founder of HCoop?

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Tue Aug 30 22:09:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

That's awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 23:28:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Interviewer or interviewee?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 23:36:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think he means that he's waking up too late to take calls from
companies in Silicon Valley for phone interviews.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 30 23:39:01 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Or maybe grad schools have phone interviews now!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:11:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Honestly, my guess is that he's on a search committee for a new CAC
staffer and is supposed to be doing phone interviews of them, or so.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:14:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I see.  Not sure how nightshifted that implies.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:15:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I mean, I was guessing that he has an appointment tomorrow at 3PM
or some such.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:32:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

He should be awake after like 15 hours of sleep, right? Has anybody
seen/heard him?

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:33:46 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Huh?  He was in SIPB just a few hours ago ...

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Wed Aug 31 00:34:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Something about taking a break from squares to get dinner and then
starting replying to email and forgetting to go back.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Wed Aug 31 02:27:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I was in H^2 tooling. I'm in Stata now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 02:27:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

No, I'm waking up too _inconsistently_ to be telling a company in
Massachusetts when to call me and expect me to be able to answer.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 02:32:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ah.  That's worse.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Wed Aug 31 02:33:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

This is the awesomest project ever.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Wed Aug 31 02:36:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e4cff6a [PATCH] x86_64: fix sync before RDTSC on Intel cpus <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 06:19:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

This is cool. I can't... concisely say why it's cool, but it is.
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1181269

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 06:20:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It's, uh, a virtualized PCI device that is a layer-4 NIC instead of a
layer-2 one, more or less. So your VMs don't need IP addresses, and
your VM-to-host interface doesn't have IP...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:16:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

That is pretty cool. I don't have any use for it, but
pretty cool.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:17:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

I wonder if it would make sense to do the same thing with
disks/filesystems.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:22:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yes, it does, that's what 9p is for. :)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:23:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/9psetup

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:27:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm now imagining bizarro-XVM that uses ~/XVM/$host in your Athena
locker as its root directory.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:27:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Although if you wanted to do _that_, use AFS itself and chroot.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 08:30:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I really want Cambridge to have a 24-hour cafe with whiteboards

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 31 10:47:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm still confused how serving gluten-free communion is a sign of a
church being hipster.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Aug 31 11:09:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Plz to not be sending 4 MB attachments to asa-exec?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Aug 31 11:10:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Aug 31 13:19:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I don't like you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 31 13:46:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

right lunch

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Aug 31 15:55:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Stevie Wonder's real name is Stevland Hardaway Morris.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:52:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

31 hours awake. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:53:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

*faeriedust*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:54:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

er, do you want to be awake?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:58:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, until I get into my bed successfully, yes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:58:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(I'm currently pushing expensive equipment around, it would be nice
not to break it)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 01:58:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

ok... well I don't know any magical substances to get you into bed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:23:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Biked home without incident. (Also biked home without incident
yesterday^WMonday night, which was from ET and not from Cambridge,
after being awake approximately as long). Tried carrying my bike into
the basement, and tripped and fell down the stairs holding my bike.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:23:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Ow

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:23:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

please find your way to bed without killing yourself

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:24:30 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:24:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "MIKKA MIKKA MIKKA MIKKA MUSHROOM MUSHROOM" - pbaranay <pbaranay>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:24:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Please acquire a sleep schedule with low rates of death?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:27:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It was on the second-to-last step, so I'm mostly fine... mostly just
lamenting that we're out of band-aids. The steps to the basement are
just this weird thing with concrete walls.

Also, amusingly I (lightly) bruised my knee where I bruised it finals
week and lost sensation for a few months. "I think I have sensation
back in that part of my skin now"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:28:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Make yourself a first aid box.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 03:29:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"That requires keeping it stocked." I thought I had some in my
backpack. Turns out I do have bacitracin, but no bandaids (and
instead some disposable toothbrush-like things, lots of medicine, a
spare towel card, and a protein shake, all of which I'd forgotten
about).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 17:21:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 17:25:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Good morning.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  1 17:28:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> shower -> w20

Class: geofft Instance: asa/aca
Time: Thu Sep  1 19:13:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yay, we can run a computer/headphone output into the a cappella
system. This might work.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:09:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... okay, did you spam the student governments and student groups of
21 different universities in a single To: line? I'm actually
impressed.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:11:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

This sounds like an excellent opporitunity for a flamewar.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:13:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, did I miss this?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:13:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

REMINDER: Fall Events at Connors Farm! Schedule Your Visit Soon!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:14:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

https://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus/asa-exec/82183

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:23:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

More people should show up and say hi to the frosh

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:23:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

...nah.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:24:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

how many frosh are there?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:24:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

Oh, maybe I should come over.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:25:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There's a frosh?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:27:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

There are three!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:27:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

adehnert:  There's one frosh who has attended the last two meetings.
I don't know if it's the same one or not; I'm not in the office.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:44:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/6AE2o.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep  1 20:44:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Thu Sep  1 22:14:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Oh -c help. "What's better than GIMP on OS X?" "ImageMagick."
"netpbm!"

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Thu Sep  1 22:17:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A smoking branding iron shaped like a 24-pin connector.
 <rnjacobs>

... If there's an implicit "and free", I think snarking is the only right answer :p

Class: geofft Instance: asa/dancetroupe
Time: Thu Sep  1 22:53:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I do not understand your music.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Sep  1 23:52:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Two! Four! Six! Eight! Who do we hyperduliate! Mary! Mary! Theotokos!

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Fri Sep  2 00:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

So, why did that not boot.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Fri Sep  2 00:58:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hm, did hibernate break, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 01:01:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Ridonkulous's officer list is "donk-exec"? Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 01:01:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... No, this person just can't type, never mind.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 01:02:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boston University East. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i mean, they go by "donk," so that actually wouldn't be surprising.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 01:03:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Fenway. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

their general list is donk-actives, though.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 02:06:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if Johnson is open.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep  2 02:07:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Or more really, if I can get CAC to let me in)

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:30:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://www.mitifc.org/

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:39:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

haha, did they stop paying their designer?

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:40:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

hmm, the dns is

Created On:30-May-2011 14:30:21 UTC
Last Updated On:30-Jul-2011 03:49:43 UTC
Expiration Date:30-May-2012 14:30:21 UTC

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:47:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I have sent sixty e-mails since waking up today.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:47:37 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

"I noticed"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:47:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:47:57 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Can I blame you for:
scrubbing-bubbles:~> mailquota
Quota               KB Used     KB Max  KB %     # Msgs      # Max   #
%
user.austein        2039712    2048000  100%          -          -
-

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:48:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

No, did you see the part where I very carefully told people _not_ to
send giant attachments to asa-midway?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:48:43 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Yep, only one 4MB attachment

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:50:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Also, a whole 17 of those e-mails were not ASA-related. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 03:50:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(I think they were all student-group-related, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  2 10:14:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

huh. this might be my last midway.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  2 10:14:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i keep forgetting about this "potentially disappearing in january"
thing

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:13:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... you sent me your background music as a 68-megabyte WAV file?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:13:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

On the bright side, at least that's beyond the attachment file size
limit.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:13:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... does that even work?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:13:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Right, ok, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:14:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

He sent it as a Dropbox URL

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:14:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

lpr -Psipb
lpr -Psipbmp3

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:24:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It should print sheet music!"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:24:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:24:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

++

That would be the most useful feature.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:25:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

You shuold write a CUPS failter that uses Shazam and google
to print lyrics for an enqueued mp3.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:25:41 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

"failter" was unintentional there, but amuses me.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:28:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, I actually tried to print our publicity materials to sipbmp3,
but, yes. "I guess that's what text-to-speech is for"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 11:28:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> CopyTech -> home

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:45:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Kerberized Pharos

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:44:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

NO

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:48:32 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Apples. Oranges. Pears. Plums. Kumquats. Tangerines. Lemons. Limes. Avocado. Tomato. Banana. Papaya. Guava. <asedeno>

GSSAPI Pharos?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:52:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... colord? What is colord.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:54:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Color profiles.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:54:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yes. Why does it need a daemon?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:54:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because mumble printing scanning X etc etc

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:55:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also I think dbus API?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 12:55:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yeah, that's what it claims.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:05:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Woo jesstess's NMU!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:49:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Kto skazal "Miao"? <jesstess>

uh oh

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:49:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'm not addicted to the cigarettes, I'm addicted to the company. <jesstess>

Did a wrap-up e-mail end up getting sent?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:49:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Not yet, I am the hosedest

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:50:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I think Asheesh has a blogpost maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  2 13:59:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The uni2ascii bug is still sitting there, alas.
Though the ... upstream maintainer (?) replied to my patch.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  2 14:31:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

anyone in w20 with access to 437?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  2 14:32:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

I assume it's not helpful, but in case it is, I can be there in a few
hours.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  2 14:32:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

yeah, no. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:26:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

today++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:26:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

also my a cappella group was like "I didn't know you did square dance"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:26:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm looking forward to my square dance group going "I didn't know you
did a cappella" at some point.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:28:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, you do a capella?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:31:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I _did_. I may not have a voice left, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:31:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

*grumbles at the aquarium*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  2 23:32:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

but. <3 the shared aca sound equipment

Class: geofft Instance: angel-on-shoulder-devil-on-shoulder.q
Time: Sat Sep  3 00:22:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Hm, I bet this API isn't what I want."
"Every problem in CS can be solved by another layer of indirection!"
"... except horrible syntax. I don't want self.data().item('foo')"
"That can be solved by another layer of indirection, too! Namely a
 preprocessor."
"Shut up."

Class: geofft Instance: angel-on-shoulder-devil-on-shoulder.q
Time: Sat Sep  3 00:24:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell, Paladin of Justice <afarrell>

Where did that meme come from? I was surprised to discover that Islam
has it too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep  3 19:46:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Awake.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep  3 19:48:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mornin'.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Sep  4 01:06:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Apparently it's Linux RAID o'clock.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Sep  4 01:07:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm.  2700h is nightly (cron jobs) o'clock ... 2600h is, um, AFS
cloning?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Sep  4 01:08:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Well, it's 1 AM on the first Sunday of the month.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  4 01:14:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

http://xkcd.com/477/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Sep  4 07:44:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Filed a Debian and Ubuntu bug requesting that /dev/kvm be mode 666.
That's kind of like working on my thesis, right?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Sep  4 17:06:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Mrrr. API design is hard.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Sep  4 17:06:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(I'm trying to strike a balance between "annoying to code to" and
"annoying to privsep")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  4 23:30:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Sep  5 12:15:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i am incredibly frustrated with all of you, first and foremost me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:27:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Still feeling kind of sick.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:36:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

What's a homestuck?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:37:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Brogan E King <brogan>

A webcomic

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:37:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Brogan E King <brogan>

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:44:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Ubuntu seems to think that chmod 666 /dev/kvm is totally reasonable.
Debian thinks it's not and wants me to wait until Wheezy+1.
(Fedora has already had it chmod 666 for the last few releases...)

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:44:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I think the responsible thing to do here is to tell Ubuntu that Debian
disagrees, and tell Debian that Ubuntu and Fedora disagree.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:45:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

And maybe tell Fedora that Debian disagrees?

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:47:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(It's worth noting here that _udev_, on all OSes, conspires with
ConsoleKit using udev-acl to give the current console user access to
/dev/kvm regardless of permissions.)

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:48:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Has anyone packaged the NLKT?

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:49:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

https://lwn.net/Articles/456132/

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:52:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Bah. I don't really feel like making a coherent argument in both
directions right now

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:53:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> squeeze (stable) (x11): non-linear keyboard trainer 

Not...exactly what I expected.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:54:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Yeah, I don't have a good name for it other than the one used in that
one LWN article. "kvm" is clearly wrong...

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:55:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, I knew what you meant by NLKT. I just wasn't expecting to find
something else of the same name already packaged.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:57:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "hitting Peak Acronym"

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 14:58:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

... ... although registering kvm in alternatives to point to either
native-kvm or qemu-system-x86_64 wouldn't be insane.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep  5 15:00:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Anyway -> 32-G9

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:19:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I'm also interested in designing a Web 2.0 lock service.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:20:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which is... what?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:21:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Have you see ZooKeeper?)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:21:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Happy to take it over here.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:22:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

My pony does pessimistic locking when on the network, and
optimistic when off, and has smooth lock breaking and
conflict resolution.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:26:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

adehnert: Apache ZooKeeper? Not really, but it sounds useful and
possibly relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:26:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Edward is preaching Haskell with a Bible in his hand.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:26:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's totally ~reasonable for building locking on. It's in Java;
that's like Web 2.0, right?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:27:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I mostly mean as a service than as software, because it turns out if
you want to design some random setup that needs to share files,
"Dropbox" is the obvious answer, but if you want to design some random
setup that needs to lock objects, there's no obvious answer (and you
can't use NFS locking on Dropbox).

Class: geofft Instance: assassin.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:29:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I *think* that ZooKeeper actually has all the auth infrastructure we
care about...

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:30:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

tibbetts: I fear that increases its complexity a bit (and failure
modes) in ways -c assassin likes. The advantage of using the git data
store / model and just being a different network protocol and frontend
on top is that you can just use the git command suite instead for
distributed operation.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:32:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(It may not interact the way you want on the same checkout, but you
should be able to push and pull between a git checkout and a not-git
checkout.)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:33:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

adehnert: It's not a hosted service. We could host it. (Also, authz is
more interesting than authn, given my memcached efforts)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:36:44 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Ah, I'm more interested in solving broder problems in ways
that delight users, which means more like Dropbox and less
like git.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:37:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Right, but I think "optimistic when not on the network" implies
"breaks in dumb ways like git".

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:37:52 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

dropbox is optimistic when not on the network.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:38:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Dropbox is always optimistic, no? Like it actually does not have
locking?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:38:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

And will just resolve conflicts by renaming all the time?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:38:37 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:38:52 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

-ish, I haven't tested it much myself.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:39:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bcded16 [PATCH] 2.5.3-pre6: mode <nelhage>

Huh. Terrible ideas: A git merge driver that "resolves" conflicts by
creating two different files, just like Dropbox does.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:40:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Do you have a way to make it deterministic (and avoid the
all-right-now-we-both-have-merges-that-we-need-to-merge problem)?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:40:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 38fdac3 [PATCH] Add a klist to struct bus_type for its drivers. <nelhage>

She told me :)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:40:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2407486 Staging: wlan-ng: prism2mgmt.h: Coding style cleanups <nelhage>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:41:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I was going to say, that doesn't sound like a deterministic conflict
resolution algorithm :)

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:41:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1792dfe ALSA CVS update - Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> PARISC Harmony driver - fixed the buffer handling without dma_alloc_coherent support. <nelhage>

I'm sure you can make it deterministic in any number of dumb ways.
I'm unconvinced the latter is a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:41:41 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

I think it's ok if shattered optimism leads to userpain.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:41:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7ba93ca [PATCH] Fix jbd assert failure on IO error. <nelhage>

Because what's going to happen in 90% of cases in the guild is the
resolution will happen out-of-band.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:41:59 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:42:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8661970 NUC900 LCD Controller Driver <nelhage>

i.e. I will walk over to you and we will figure out what is going on
together.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:42:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5cd3bbf [SCSI] retry with missing data for INQUIRY <nelhage>

And this means that "git pull" "never" fails, which is what users want.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:43:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e05ddeb IEEE1394(r1169): Trivial cleanups. <nelhage>

Your history will be mildly fucked, but only mildly.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:43:23 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Usually when there is a conflict in source code, any
developer is capable of resolving it and can be expected to
DTRT by themselves. With a creative work like a guild game,
conflict in files usually indicates a failure of
communication.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin.d
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:47:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I said auth, not authn." I think it does the authz we'd need, too
--- it does authn using username/password (which sucks, but eh) and
authz on a per node basis, sufficiently well for what we need, AFAICT.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Sep  5 22:48:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<How should a person respond when he is asked, "As a human being, what is essential in terms of purpose and discipline?" First, let us say, "It is to become of the mind that is right now pure and lacking complications." People in general all seem to be dejected.> <xavid>

(random tangent) One big difference between Guild games and software
is that Guild games really ~never actually care about history.  It's
nice to know it's there if you need it, but I'm not sure I've ever
used it.  And having a clean history is a lose.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 12:39:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

sick.
also, oops, i should _register_ today

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Sep  6 12:55:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"parachurch organizations"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:25:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I bet I should register

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:59:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

I guess I'll do it tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:59:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You... can do that?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:59:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All 6 By 2 Acey Deucey <kchen>

You can register anytime through Friday.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:59:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Yes, you have until the end of the week.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep  6 16:59:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Just turn in your form at Student Services in bldg 11.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:40:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It's ironic that anti-hazing forms are a thing we make lots of people
do at the beginning of the year in order to be members of this
organization

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:44:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Reading greekchat, I learned that some of the most stringent
anti-hazing rules that some sororities and fraternities apply consider
any activity which is mandatory for new members and not for others to
be hazing.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:45:29 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Isn't that built into the definition? How else do you define it?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:46:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

You can also add requirements that it be degrading / harassing /
stressful / etc.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:47:24 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Oh... in other words "all new members must write their name on this
sheet of paper" might be hazing because it's selective?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:47:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

The definition "anything that the organization or the state says is against the
rules" is used at
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=81903, and then
it's up to individual chapters and state laws. Massachusetts is very
specific about what's not OK,
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section17

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:47:54 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Sure. Your Greek organization might say, "it's not OK to make all new
members do anything which is not in the official,
organization-sanctioned New Member Initiation Plan".

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:52:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

When is the hazing form going out?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 17:52:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"once we stop wanking"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:00:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

geofft: "For the purposes of this defintiion, ESP is a performance
group, Splash is a performance, and the high school students are the
audience."
adehnert: O_o

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:01:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

what

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:01:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Alex is trying to argue to me that ESP's students should be
considered members for the purposes of funding board apps, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:02:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

"Only if they count w.r.t. recruiting violations"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:03:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

I think I really agree with that description of ESP (performance
group)....

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:03:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

No, I'm trying to argue that your proposal is stupid, because it
would mean ESP has to count the high school students.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:04:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Is he arguing about the 5/50 rule?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:05:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

No, just about funding.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep  6 18:06:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Funding boards would like to have more accurate membership numbers.
5/50 is the immediate concern, but there's also the question of, if
we're funding a $500 event, will 100 people actually show up?)

Class: geofft Instance: openssh
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:29:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

OpenSSH 5.9 has some sandboxing features...
  http://www.openssh.com/txt/release-5.9
They propose porting it to Linux using CLONE_NEWNS and CLONE_NEWNET.
Does that... get you a useful login?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:51:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Anyone around W20 or so have pseudoephedrine?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:52:13 2011 Host: 18.111.38.161
From: choose death <kcr>

I will have some in W20 in an hour.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:52:26 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

I have some in Walker

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:52:43 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Never mind, Karl is a better bet

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:53:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Hm. I wonder whether it's worth my time just to run up to CVS, given
that I need to do so anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep  6 19:53:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

And I can do reasonable work offline. -> away
Thanks, though.

Class: geofft Instance: openssh
Time: Tue Sep  6 20:36:37 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Music and Blasters and Old Jedi Masters <brians>

It's only the pre-auth daemon that is sandboxed that way; it still
gives you a perfectly ordinary shell.

Class: geofft Instance: python.doc.q
Time: Tue Sep  6 21:55:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Note Because dir() is supplied primarily as a convenience for use at
an interactive prompt, it tries to supply an interesting set of names
more than it tries to supply a rigorously or consistently defined set
of names ..."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:15:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

ARGH.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:19:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:21:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Designing a privseppable API is kind of annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:22:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

(Without reimplementing, like, CryptDB Crappy Edition in Python)

It turns out that if you want the code pertaining to each user to run
in separate server-side context, giving them all the same DB access
kind of defeats the point.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:24:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Wait, I'm a moderator of /r/MIT? When did that happen.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:25:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://www.reddit.com/r/mit/comments/k6kka/css_to_tag_usernames_with_year_and_course/c2hxw88

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:26:02 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So, 2-6 hours ago.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:28:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

It was a rhetorical question, but yes.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:28:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"Debian bug-squicking"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:28:51 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Sarcasm and rhetorical questions don't work in text.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:29:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

"That's why I didn't use a question mark"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:31:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, hey, you did. I didn't notice.

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Sep  7 00:44:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

Concert Choir?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 11:23:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

o_0

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep  7 11:24:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Be the changeset you want to see in the world. <geofft>

i count like 80 people in here?

Class: geofft Instance: wikileaks
Time: Wed Sep  7 12:59:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Wed Sep  7 13:12:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Wait, there were two popes named Pelagius? That's not confusing at
_all_

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Wed Sep  7 13:13:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: These limbs are not mine. <ternus>

Time for a pope refactor.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Wed Sep  7 13:13:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Surely one had the modifier "Classic" or "New"

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Wed Sep  7 13:17:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I guess that was unclear. Multiple popes of the same name is
reasonable. There was just also a notable heretic named Pelagius
about a hundred years prior to the two of them.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Wed Sep  7 13:21:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Pope Zero"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep  7 15:58:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

my hard drive is annoyingly slow.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Sep  7 16:19:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

du --kolmogorov

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Sep  7 16:21:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

Man, that would be such a useful program to have.

Class: geofft Instance: tar
Time: Wed Sep  7 16:58:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh.

httpd@vm-6858:~/lab$ tar czf bin.tar.gz
tar: Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive
Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
httpd@vm-6858:~/lab$ tar czfT bin.tar.gz /dev/null
httpd@vm-6858:~/lab$ tar tf bin.tar.gz 
httpd@vm-6858:~/lab$ 

Class: geofft Instance: tar
Time: Wed Sep  7 16:59:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Presumably if you use T you know what you're doing?

Class: geofft Instance: tar
Time: Wed Sep  7 17:00:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right.
http://www.gnu.org/s/tar/manual/html_section/Basic-tar.html

Class: geofft Instance: tar
Time: Wed Sep  7 17:00:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I don't think tar cares about empty archives, I think that's some
programmer's attempt at saying "You didn't specify any files, moron"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Sep  7 19:28:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

As a reminder, -c git exists, for overly nerdy conversations about git
(or "I tried to be too clever and now I'm in the middle of a
conflicted merge in the middle of a filter-branch in the middle of a
rebase -i in the middle of a bisect, halp").

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Sep  7 19:31:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

sounds like me this past summer

Class: geofft Instance: weather
Time: Wed Sep  7 20:18:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hey Debothena, KBOS continues to not exist

Class: geofft Instance: weather
Time: Wed Sep  7 20:29:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

The data isn't mine; -i weather is legacy. Switch to -c weather
instead.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Wed Sep  7 21:12:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I don't really understand containers

Class: geofft Instance: cosí
Time: Wed Sep  7 21:17:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

What are we listening to?

Class: geofft Instance: cosí
Time: Wed Sep  7 21:18:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's like... covers of totally normal pop songs ("Dust In The Wind",
"I'm Yours", etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: cosí
Time: Wed Sep  7 21:18:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

But the voices and instrumentation are... subtly off.

Class: geofft Instance: cosí
Time: Wed Sep  7 21:52:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Answer: the "Coffeehouse" satellite radio station

Class: geofft Instance: asa.else
Time: Wed Sep  7 22:05:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should join more student groups. I think I've only ever been
involved with about 9.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.else
Time: Wed Sep  7 22:06:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Wed Sep  7 23:26:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Google Code Search is telling me there are very few legitimate users
of this ioctl. I wonder if you could just remove it.

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Wed Sep  7 23:27:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

This one VNC server seems to be the biggest one that is both
legitimate and actually needs it. There are also some line editors
(especially in ancient mail/news apps) and csshX, both of which could
probably avoid needing it with a redesign (and maybe with an
additional pty).

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Sep  8 00:01:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

doxp: add this sketchy repo by the dpkg developers that has automatic
builds of the latest dpkg test branch from git

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Thu Sep  8 01:29:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

csshX? You mean cssh?

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Thu Sep  8 01:38:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Thu Sep  8 01:40:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Huh, I would've thought that it would inject characters with
AppleScript or something.

Class: geofft Instance: TIOCSTI
Time: Thu Sep  8 01:47:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"I would have thought it would inject characters with an extra pty."

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:11:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, I forgot all my Java. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:11:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"On the bright side, maybe I don't want to work somewhere where I'll
have to know so much Java"

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:12:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What did they ask you that you blanked on?

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:19:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"What's the difference between an arraylist and a vector", primarily.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:19:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

But I was also a little iffy on, like, "What's your favorite design
pattern"

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:20:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That's a horrible question to ask!

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:20:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Patterns are descriptive, not prescriptive, damn it.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:21:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't think I'd want to work somewhere that thinks that that's a
good question to ask people.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:21:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It was a weird question (and it followed up "what are design
patterns"), but presumably the point was to talk competently about
some specific pattern insted of going "uh... Singleton? Visitor? derp"

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:21:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That totally sounds like my Amazon interview...

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:22:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not really sure why JavaPeople are so fixated on patterns.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:23:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you ask me, the java community attachment to patterns is well into
"mistaking the map for the territory" space.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:23:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also, in a fit of competence, I slept through my alarm and was woken
up by the interviewer and had to be like "can I call you back in 10
minutes", which probably disqualified me then and there.

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:23:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(But only probably, because we'd rescheduled twice and the first was
"I'm sick", so it might not have been fatal)

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Thu Sep  8 12:57:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, interviews for full-time jobs?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:26:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

oops. I have class in 5 minutes and I'm still at home and didn't
shower or anything...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:26:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"not a good start to the semester"

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:55:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

*hate*

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:55:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Pro tip: don't blanche a self-owned list -f /dev/null

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:55:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:57:40 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

?

Class: geofft Instance: moira.d
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:57:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Brigham Circle. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

dude, what if someone did that to next-forum, or any large public list
for that matter?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:57:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Griggs Street/Long Avenue. <stum>

that would take a lot of repair work :)

Class: geofft Instance: moira.d
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:58:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There are backups

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:58:18 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

What would blanche -f /dev/nul do?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:58:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I would really like for blanche to order commands in a way that does
not remove your bits until the last possible moment

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:58:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

empty a list

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:59:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

Is blanche -f /dev/null atomic?  Did you end up with a partially
emptied list?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 14:59:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cleveland Circle. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

i think he ended up with an empty list and no way to add himself (or
anyone back).

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 15:01:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I do not think -f is atomic. My recollection is that it does a diff
operation which triggers a series of insert/delete queries

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 15:01:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

kchen: I added a partially-emptied lists.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 15:01:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

*ended up with

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Thu Sep  8 15:02:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

In particular, all members alphabetically after "geofft" stayed on the
list.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Thu Sep  8 15:55:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: i-hate-you
Time: Thu Sep  8 22:54:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

root@isla-nublar:~# cat /usr/share/doc/multipath-tools/README
Things to read

Class: geofft Instance: i-hate-you
Time: Thu Sep  8 22:55:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Durr.

Class: geofft Instance: i-hate-you
Time: Thu Sep  8 22:56:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

File a bug.

Class: geofft Instance: i-hate-you
Time: Thu Sep  8 22:57:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

See, we're running Ubuntu 2.02 Moldy Museum, so it's unclear a bug
report would be useful

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Thu Sep  8 23:31:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

This has broder's fingerprints all over it :)

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:10:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Doesn't that usually just mean that I got suckered into coding up your
ideas?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:11:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Heh. No, I'm looking at xvm-iscsi-config and the fact that it uses
debconf in a way that resembles correct.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:11:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's the gratuitous competence at packaging, not the actual code
being packaged, at the moment...

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:12:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hahaha. I never really liked that I had to use debconf to pull that off

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:12:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also apparently I am the first person in the history of the internet
to use the phrase "gratuitous competence"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:12:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I at least didn't go to the trouble of supporting backtracking, did I?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:12:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, there's no state machine.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep  9 01:13:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Good

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:04:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hey zephyr-which-is-still-awake, help me brainstorm solutions to
locker maintenance.

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:04:31 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Desupport lockers

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

And replace them with?

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:04:50 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Nothing. Just make it not your problem.

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:05:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's not my problem. I'd like it to be, though

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:05:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft, you have too many plots. Scripts first.

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:05:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:18:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Goals:
- manage new sysnames (arch directories) in a reasonable way, and in
  particular keep track of what programs are "enabled" for what sysnames
- make installing and uninstalling programs easy
- ???

Class: geofft Instance: lockers
Time: Fri Sep  9 02:19:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

- support common language modules (Python, Perl, Ruby come to mind,
  although it'd be nice to stick -dev builds of C libraries in there)

Class: geofft Instance: gnu
Time: Fri Sep  9 04:04:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Whoa, http://debbugs.gnu.org/

Class: geofft Instance: gnu
Time: Fri Sep  9 04:05:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

They've apparently decided Savannah sucks and have punted for
debbugs. <3

Class: geofft Instance: phone-interview
Time: Fri Sep  9 11:50:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If I keep doing this I'm going to have to switch to a
non-bare-minimum cell phone pllan

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:15:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:20:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

> Also, while I was modifying the BIOS, I took the opportunity to
> turn on another option: 'Direct I/O virtualization'. I hope this
> will be OK?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:20:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

While it is, your enthusiasm for turning on random BIOS options
worries/amuses me...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:26:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I have seen much better examples of that. <ternus>

I used to do that.  Zero failure modes.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:26:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I mean, admittedly the first thing I do when I get a new computer is
go through the BIOS and turn on everything that sounds fun.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:27:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass The Ocean <kchen>

I know someone who turned off the L2 cache because his computer was
having all sorts of random problems, and he figured it was something
to test.  It was impressive how slow the computer became.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:27:46 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I love how we thought that my bios options on W-A-THORNHUMP-III might
have caused the install errors.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:28:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You can still turn L2 cache off?

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:28:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

This was years ago, maybe 2004 or so.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:28:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, i-mix, but still.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:28:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle & Roll <kchen>

But I have no idea.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:29:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

kaduk: I mean, we also went "it must be a kernel error, the RCU
implementation is buggy and randomly deleting files" for a while!

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:30:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What was the actual root problem?

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:31:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yes, we had some fun and exciting explanations!

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:30:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

THe problem is, the more you know about computers, the more crazy your
problem suggestions become.  

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:31:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Some font package's postinst was too clever and clobbered things it
didn't own.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:31:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, had we just been all "Ubuntu developers must just suck", we'd
have tracked it down sooner

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:32:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But the bug only issued if all the packages involved were installed in
the same transaction, so we only saw it when ubuntu-desktop was not
installed from the ubuntu installer, and was instead pulled in via
debathena-cluster's dependence on it.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:37:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That sounds *painful* to track down, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:38:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Once we got rid of our crazy ideas and started actually looking, I don't
think it was *too* terrible.  Like, Geoff and Anders got it in one
night.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:43:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's really creepy that there are people putting ladders against our
outside wall such that they can see into our windows

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:43:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: HARBOTTLE (n.) A particular kind of fly which lives inside double glazing. <ahailes>

yes!  We had that the other day too.  The landlords failed to warn us

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:44:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... the heck? I blackened my wooden spoon by leaning it against the
pan? That's _possible_?

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Fri Sep  9 12:53:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:02:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

3M Breakfast Meeting
Thursday, September 22, 2011
7:30 - 9:00 AM
E40-496
Free Breakfast! Networking Opportunity!

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:02:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

You... must not be targeting MIT students.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:02:57 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

"Sloanies"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:03:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I would think that, but it starts "If you are an undergrad or grad
student in course 2, 3, 5, 6 or 10".

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:03:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I guess "Sloanies" and "course 15" aren't quite synonyms.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:04:11 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: ETOOMANYBOOKS <aatharuv>

Being Sloanie is a state of mind. And many people have traditionally
been dual course 6/course 15 majors.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:07:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Who is Riku Voipio?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:08:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh, he's working on Linaro, that makes sense
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+spec/multiarch-porting-11.09

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:11:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

    - use a POSIX lexer to parse configuration files so that escaping double
      quotes for 'realname' can be parsed correctly; thanks to Paul "TBBle" 
      Hampson for the report; Closes: #579891

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:41:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Who is this "geofft" kid and what is wrong with him

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:45:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Actually I might blame jdreed or wdc here.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:45:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:46:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm trying to deal with Debathena #976 so I can test things on my
laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena Opcode: auto
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:46:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/ticket/976 <debothena>

Debathena ticket 976: debathena-gdm-config doesn't handle Debian gdm3 package

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:45:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why exactly is gdm3 my fault?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:47:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's not, but the I thought the current debian/rules mess is. It might
actually be mine:
debathena-gdm-config (1.19) unstable; urgency=low

  * Make half an attempt at skinning the new gdm (Trac: #430).

 -- Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>  Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:45:35 -0500

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:48:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Or better, broder's:
debathena-gdm-config (1.17) unstable; urgency=low

  * Don't configure /etc/gdm/gdm.conf{,-custom} on post-gdm-2.20
    platforms.
    - Themes are no longer supported, so there's no point setting one
    - Xauthority files are now going into /var/run

 -- Evan Broder <broder@mit.edu>  Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:46:46 -0400

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:47:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The current rules crap is entirely your fault.  and I've already said
we can punt the old-gdm crap, since Hardy is no longer supported for
desktop stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:51:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

But old-gdm still exists on Squeeze. (We could declare we don't
support that.)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:51:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Whatever's easier.  We've already decided we can do whatever the hell
we want with Debian support policies

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:53:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

DEB_REMOVE_FILES_debathena-gdm-config += \
        /usr/share/xsessions/ssh.desktop

wat

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:52:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You don't remember that?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:53:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:53:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That was the awesome Hardy/Interpid (maybe Jaunty) thing that was
basically like "What machine do you want to ssh into?  OK, have fun."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:53:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We decided this was not a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:55:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I wonder if I want to install debathena-manual-gdm-config and move on
with my life

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep  9 13:54:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You do.  This is the _point_ of manual-config, and I've been saying
this every time we do stupid things with config packages.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep  9 15:38:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

*sigh* -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: moses.q
Time: Fri Sep  9 16:25:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Who's teaching that?"
"Prof. Zeldovich."
"?"
"... Nickolai? ... my advisor?"
"Never heard of him."
"He got here in 2008 or so?"
"I stopped being department head in 1989, if I didn't hire you I don't
 know you."

Class: geofft Instance: moses.q
Time: Fri Sep  9 16:27:15 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  9 17:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

jdreed/ops (either jdreed or ops)
jdreed/ops (@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  9 17:16:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

in fact

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

How did anyone think CDBS was ever a good idea?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:27:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

some people like stoopid make tricks

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:28:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Nobody had thought of doing it the dh7 way yet?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:29:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, but why would you use make for this.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:29:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The knife you have vs. the knife you don't?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:29:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If you're going to make debian/rules horribly empty, just don't write
~anything in make at all and _generate_ a debian/rules the way you
generate debian/control

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:30:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That doesn't work if you want it to be an add-on tool

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:30:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, I guess you could do it cmake style and generate a separate
Makefile

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:30:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:30:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I hope you're not advocating that anybody ever do anything remotely
like cmake

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:31:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Given the alternative of CDBS, I'm all for cmake

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:31:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Touché

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:32:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Alternatively, they could have written their own autotools thing that
generates debian/rules from debian/rules.in the way you generate
Makefile from Makefile.in. Then you'd be in M4, which sucks, but is
still not make.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep  9 23:55:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's so weird running config-package-dev 4.12 instead of
4.12~ubuntusomething

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 00:05:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should really set up sbuild or pbuilder on my laptop instead of
hoping that `debuild` is fine

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:36:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Guess what guys

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:36:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If I try to log in as an Athena user, I get an assertion failure in
gdm and it crashes.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:38:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

        auth_file = NULL;
        add_user_authorization (slave, &auth_file);

        g_assert (auth_file != NULL);

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:41:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh, that's just an ugly assertion saying effectively
gdm-simple-slave[21365]: WARNING: Failed to add user authorization:
could not find user "starnine" on system

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:52:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

That really only can fail if getpwnam returns NULL.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:58:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Rebooting the machine fixed it... right! gdm presumably loads
nsswitch.conf once at startup.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Sep 10 02:58:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

yay! my laptop now runs debathena-login-graphical.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Sep 10 16:51:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I don't really understand why students are e-mailing me personally to
ask questions. I'd understand why you'd want to e-mail _both_ TAs
instead of -staff...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Sep 10 16:55:29 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Music and Blasters and Old Jedi Masters: http://wretchedhive.mit.edu/ <brians>

Stockholm syndrome.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sat Sep 10 16:55:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<The first snow, / Just enough to bend / The leaves of the daffodils.> <xavid>

Presumably they're more comfortable talking to you than the other TA
and/or they don't want to bother both of you?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:04:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Can I easily use some random third-party authentication system like
Facebook or Google for REMOTE_USER auth?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:05:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes. Please hold...

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:07:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Better yet, can I use it with BlueChips?"

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:08:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes. Unfortunately, I got kicked off of blue-sun-corp@ so I can't
extract the code I wrote out of the blue-sun locker

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:08:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:10:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Uh, should we move scripts-bluechips out of the blue-sun locker then?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:12:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, we should wait until petron gives me bits back

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:15:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is scripts actually pointing people at the BlueChips autoinstaller?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:15:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Not as far as I know.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:15:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Good

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:41:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Okay, simpler question. What do I need to do to get basic auth
working?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:41:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It looks like there's a password field in the database that's not
exposed in the UI?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:41:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't think that works without mod_python or mod_wsgi or similar

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:43:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

What, the database password thing, or .htpasswd?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 10 18:45:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The database passwod thing

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Sep 10 22:59:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I guess I should not be surprised at today's featured article.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sun Sep 11 00:11:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Since Judaism is both a nation and a religion"

Class: geofft Instance: else/google.ads
Time: Sun Sep 11 00:34:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Owwww this website makes all parts of me hurt.
http://www.christianmingle.com/

Class: geofft Instance: mitsfs.ttants
Time: Sun Sep 11 02:54:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

key holders (people who hold keys)
key holders (important holders)

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-games
Time: Sun Sep 11 03:31:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should uninstall this package. I have been playing too much
Quadrapassel and Tetravex recently

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Sep 11 03:44:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/09/msg00148.html
++

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep 11 04:07:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/athena-release/www/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 15:11:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:15:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also, why do I not know anyone who regularly uses hg or bzr?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:15:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:15:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I feel like those should be "git, but not designed by someone who
wrote a Unix kernel from scratch", which sounds exactly like what you
want

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:16:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I occasionally use bzr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Thoughts?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:17:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hard to say, because I started using bzr after I started using git, and
therefore continually try and fail to apply what I know about git to bzr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:17:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The UI is certainly more in line with what I would expect if I was
coming from svn

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:17:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But I don't feel as empowered to do obscure things

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:17:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(I don't know whether that's due to lack of exposed capabilities, or
lack of aptitude)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 16:52:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b7fbe52 [PATCH] compute_creds race <nelhage>

I think I blame a combination of
(1) Linus' reality-distortion field
(2) IIUC, branching is not *as* cheap in either hg or bzr, especially
    bzr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:17:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh yeah - I also haven't been able to internalize bzr's concept of a
branch as a general rule

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:18:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There is a concept in bzr of branches that share most of their state
(bzr init-repo)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:23:43 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I'm probably projecting, but I think git rebase is the secret killer
app of DVCSs, and other revision control systems have been reluctant
to design it in.  (Unless I'm wrong about hg and bzr.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:24:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

bzr has something like rebase as a non-builtin plugin, but I don't
think it's as good

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:24:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think hg prides itself on not having rebase

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:25:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I lost interest in hg when I saw that it 1) drew a distinction
between branches and heads and 2) tries to preserve sequential
revision numbers (which can truly only end in tears when you have
multiple repos)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:25:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Actually, it's more that I tried to use hg, expected it to work like
git, and kept finding that it didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:25:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1a92fb1 [PATCH] stack reductions: ide <nelhage>

IIRC hg finally got rebase built-in at some point. At the least, it's
had it as a plugin for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:25:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: dfd15c4 cifs: explicitly revoke SPNEGO key after session setup <nelhage>

Yeah, the branches/heads distinction in hg probably makes sense to
someone, but coming from git it was just bizarre.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:25:54 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Yeah... that's the wrong thing to be proud of.  (And it's not just
rebase; it's git commit --amend and stgit and stuff like that.  The
general idea that your private branch's commit history is not
sacrosanct.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:26:08 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

hg's sequential revisions are just an input notation for the local
repository, aren't they?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:26:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Everything is an object named by its sha1" is, I think, probably
git's killer feature, honestly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:26:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

When I first started using a DVCS and before I grokked git, I liked hg
more than git. For a while I was SIPB's resident hg advocate. I suspect
that because hg worked like svn and git did not

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:26:44 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

SHA1-indexed revisions are a staple of DVCSs, not something unique to
git.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:26:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, but you still end up with people referring to rev numbers and
then having to ask "whose revision N do you mean?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:27:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 542f238 [PATCH] Move cpu notifiers et al to cpu.h <nelhage>

Yeah, but realistically, small-integer-versions will tend to be the
same between different repos, and so developers will try to use them
to communicate, and it will *mostly* work, which is the worst kind of
working.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 11 17:27:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

? or phone numbers?

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

4-231

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Eliot. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

how recently?

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

currently

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Reservoir. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

ah. ok. --> there.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:37:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

he's in front of the room giving a lecture

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:37:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Beaconsfield. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

oh. ok. i'm picking up a book from him, so i can wait until he has a
break?

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:36:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I believe he was planning to finish at ~7

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:37:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yep. see the mail from 6.170 about the git lecture

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:38:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Newton Center. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

ok.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:38:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Museum of Fine Arts. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

yeah, i realized vaguely that he was giving this git lecture, but
since i had a conflict, it was only a vague realization.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:38:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

> i had a conflict

We just learned how to resolve those!

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:40:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Washington Square. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

dude, if git could resolve temporal conflicts, that would be
phenomenal.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:40:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

man git-tardis

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:40:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Nah, if I could beat up git to get it to do what I want it to, THAT
would be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:40:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Warren Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

git just-figure-out-what-i-wanted

Class: geofft Instance: sightings.d
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:40:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have maintained for years that future versions of POSIX need to
require
--do-what-i-mean  and --no-really

Class: geofft Instance: sightings.d
Time: Sun Sep 11 18:42:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"how far in the future?"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sun Sep 11 19:58:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... what is "DNA Sudoku"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Sep 11 20:01:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

" and b/c of you, i cannot reference him by anything besides geofft
anymore :P "

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Sep 11 20:22:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

is that supposed to be odd?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Sep 11 20:22:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

No, but I liked how she thought it was.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Sep 11 20:24:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i see.

Class: geofft Instance: lyrics/elses
Time: Mon Sep 12 01:09:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Come, O thou Traveler unknown,
whom still I hold, but cannot see!
My company before is gone,
and I am left alone with thee;
with thee all night I mean to stay
and wrestle till the break of day.

Class: geofft Instance: 9/11
Time: Mon Sep 12 01:28:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Apparently $apartmentmate was _on a runway_ waiting to fly her last
flight for her private pilot's license on 9/11 when the FAA told her
to go back to the hangar.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 12 01:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

K. A. Applegate
Jacob Appelbaum

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Sep 12 03:31:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

/var/log/messages is gone in Natty???

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Sep 12 03:39:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You want /var/log/syslog on Debian-like systems.  /var/log/messages
was always broken, because it only had messages of level info,
notice, and warn.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Sep 12 03:40:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Debian #580552.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Sep 12 03:41:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

And see the changelog for rsyslog 4.6.4-2ubuntu4.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Sep 12 03:49:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 12 07:18:21 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

i,i
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gzhau/iam_ka_applegate_author_of_animorphs_and_many/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 09:29:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

headhunters moar liek dayshifters amirite

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 11:45:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Stack canary near the buffer by EBP
Who watches over you?
Make a little exploit in your code

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 11:46:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Not to put too fine a point on it, say I'm off by one from your
offset.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 11:47:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

There's a pointer opposite me
From this code that's written in C
But it will overflow if you don't call strncpy

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:28:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hey guys! Tech Squares' class starts tomorrow evening! You should
come! It's lots of fun! You get PE credit! Exclamation points!

If you're thinking of taking the class for PE credit, note that it's
only being offered in the fall this year and not the spring. (The
schedule is Q1, TR 8-9 PM. If you're not taking the PE class, then
it's just T8-10ish; that's also the schedule once the PE quarter ends)

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:29:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 40199c5 V4L/DVB (11742): TI THS7303 video amplifier driver code <nelhage>

Shit, they got to you, too.

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:29:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Heh. I, uh, needed to graduate.

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:30:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: AHENNY (adj.) The way people stand when examining other people's bookshelves. <ahailes>

and then you found out it's fun!

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:30:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: DETCHANT (n.) (Of the hands or feet.) Prunelike after an overlong bath. <ahailes>

(right?)

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:30:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Mmhmm

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:30:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: da8ea98 [ALSA] wavefront - declare initialization data as static <nelhage>

I mean, I knew you were doing squares, I just hadn't realized you'd
turned into one of those people who tells everyone in the room how
awesome it is any any opportunity :)

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:31:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BOSCASTLE (n.) A huge pyramid of tin cans placed just inside the entrance to a supermarket. <ahailes>

it turns out that it is a really awesome way to get PE points.  I got most of
mine that way

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:31:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I reserve the right to overenthusiastically advertise student groups
on my class ~once a term.

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:31:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Per student group.)

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:32:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Which reminds me, off-cycle ASA elections are coming up, you should
run. Exclamation points.)

Class: geofft Instance: ruby
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:46:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

.... Ruby uses the < operator on types for "is a subclass of"?

Class: geofft Instance: ruby
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:47:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, it matches the "inherits from" syntax in class declarations.

Class: geofft Instance: ruby
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:47:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ruby
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:47:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

("class A < B ... end")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:53:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

afk phone interview?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:53:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

which reminds me, I have grad school plots to deal with concurrently.
sigh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:53:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"I wish I could just decide I <3 academia or <3 industry and not
bother with the other"

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne.q
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

me: "Fortunately, Google Calendar remembered"
barista: "Yeah, I've been falling into this whole Frank Herbert
relying-on-computers-too-much thing. Pretty soon they will rise up and
destroy us"

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne.q
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:56:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It is a good thing Beantowne is not Coffee of Doom.

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne.q
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:56:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That is not what room service means on Earth. <ternus>

Hot.

Class: geofft Instance: ruby
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:57:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

It’s not too far from the mathematical notation A <: B.

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne.q
Time: Mon Sep 12 13:59:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... you have the weirdest fantasies.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 14:12:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Okay, that was a "I just want to talk to you on the phone and figure
out what you're interested in", not an interview, which is totally
reasonable. (I would have personally used the opportunity to throw
out some general competence questions/puzzles but whatever)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 14:16:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Unfortunately, despite the interruption I am still more or less in a
coding flow, even though it is business hours and I should deal with
stuff during business hours

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:32:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Is there a better idiom for
foo = dict((v, k) for (k, v) in bar.iteritems())
?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:33:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

i,i array_flip

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:35:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Well, 2.7 has dict comprehensions, which are cool.
  foo = {v: k for k, v in bar.iteritems()}

I don’t have anything else to suggest that isn’t stupid.
  foo = dict(map(reversed, bar.iteritems()))
  foo = dict(zip(bar.itervalues(), bar.iterkeys()))

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:37:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b2e2583 sh: remove duplicated #include <nelhage>

are itervalues() and iterkeys() even guaranteed to be in the same
order?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:38:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b868f1d Unification of the SCSI Kconfig menus <nelhage>

(I suspect they happen to be, but that could change)

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:38:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yes.  “If keys, values and items views are iterated over with no
intervening modifications to the dictionary, the order of items will
directly correspond.”

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:38:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I can't imagine that makes the PyPy folks happy.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:39:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Second question, if bar is self.__dict__ is there something more
clever to do what I'm really trying to do?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:40:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 65348ca [IPV4]: Fix typos in ipip.c commented out code. <nelhage>

I mean, I think most obvious hash-table implementations have that
property?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:41:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Doesn't PyPy like to flip out and reallocate things?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:41:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e62925d ide: kill duplicate code in ide_dump_{ata,atapi}_status() <nelhage>

I mean, it has a copying GC, and this means that the GC can't decide
"as long as I'm relocating that hash table, let's resize it!", but
I'm not sure that's a reasonable thing to do in any case.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:45:07 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Java's LinkedHashMap is pretty efficient and gets you
reliable traversal order.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:45:25 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

String your dictionary entries into a doubly linked list
for iteration.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 15:47:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 803b8cb amd-iommu: change dma_dom->next_bit to dma_dom->next_address <nelhage>

Yeah, also that, if you need it.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:00:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should know the answer to this, but .... ... Python doesn't have
implicit copy constructors or implicit calls thereto, does it?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:00:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:00:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

C++'s copy constructors are an artifact of the bizarro nature of
assignment in C++, aren't they?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:01:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, okay, that's what I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:01:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

But someone reminded me of C++ the other day and my brain melted

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:26:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should ... not have the words "machine learning" on my resume

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:26:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Or "Java", come to think of it.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:27:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Really I should just throw it away and write a new one, it's been
inherited and tweaked since high school and it probably could benefit
from just being completely rethought.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 12 16:28:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you had to relearn Java, you'd pick it up pretty quickly. But it'd
be better not to have to take a job where you'd have to relearn it.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 17:13:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jessica <jesstess>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 18:23:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Some of you are trying way too hard for this daily homework
question-about-the-reading thing.
Some of you are doing quite the opposite.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 12 19:58:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh man, I remember those.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 12 23:45:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Tue Sep 13 09:45:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Finally remembered my github password!
I have 78 pending notifications.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Sep 13 10:14:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

yay getting paid

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 13 13:14:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, -> campus or something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 13 13:14:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Maybe -> lunch too?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 13 13:14:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Life is confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Sep 13 13:15:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

How am I a _second-year grad student_? I was in high school just the
other day...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:22:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... ... Nickolai was OpenAFS security officer until _2009_?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:23:13 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

nominally.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:23:29 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

he was mia for the last several years of that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:29:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, I was like... wasn't he busy being a professor for like the
last year of that?

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:33:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Tell the MIT AV person how to do AV

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:33:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Enh, he left.

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:33:05 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is it djbroder?  Just troll on itpartners instead

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:34:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I dunno. It's some dude who thinks the right way to tape down cables
is along the length of the cable instead of perpendicular

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:34:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yay Debian!

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:33:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

older guy, grey hair?

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:35:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:36:52 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, you do both.
(Though it depends to some extent what width of tape you have.)

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:37:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

== kaduk

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 14:37:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Also, what the floor surface is, and how clean it is.)

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Tue Sep 13 16:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Flame ua-all for leaving the door open

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 16:59:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

This frosh is making Dos Equis ("I don't always ... but when I do")
meme posters and doesn't understand what they mean.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 16:59:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We may have jumped the shark, and by shark I mean little Reddit alien
dude.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:00:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

The memes have metasticized. Emergency amputation is the
only option.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:01:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Why don't we take memes...  /O/
And put them in the trash!  \O\

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:01:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Amputate ALL the memes!

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:01:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:02:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Makes poster with memes
Doesn't understand what they mean

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:13:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

With some help from the professor, ezyang, arkhipov and I
successfully proved that the following program terminates on all
inputs:
def lol(x):
  if x == 0: return 0
  else: return lol(0)
Hopefully we'll be able to prove more exciting things as the term goes
on ...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:14:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm glad that your ability to prove things about software is so robust!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:18:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Require Import Recdef.
Function lol (x : nat) {wf lt}: nat :=
  match x with
    | 0 => 0
    | y => lol 0
  end.
intros.
Require Import Omega.
omega.
SearchPattern (well_founded lt).
apply lt_wf.
Defined.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.d
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:18:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 70c1a0a [PATCH] fbdev: remove unneeded fbsysfs printk <nelhage>

Ugh, Stellar.

"""
Folks have pointed out that some of the pages on this course web
site seem to require MIT credentials.  I absolutely welcome
participation from people outside of MIT, whether registered
formally or not.  Just e-mail me if you'd like me to grant access
to the full site.  (I wish there were a way to make everything
public, but I haven't found one.)"""

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:19:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

> from the professor, ezyang, ...

"Edward's a professor?!"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:19:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm not quite sure what the second half of that is supposed to mean,
but until then Coq was telling me that it could prove that that
function terminates provided that I could prove to it that 1) the
less-than relation is well-founded and 2) for all natural numbers x,
y where y = successor(x), 0 < y.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:19:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

oremanj: "I'd like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:20:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Anyway, it turns out that if you bother the built-in libraries, you
can find some proof that less-than is well-founded, and if you run
this thing called "omega", it will prove on its own that any natural
number that is a successor of a natural number is greater than zero.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:21:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

No, the king of England from 1042 to 1066 was Edward the CONfessor.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:21:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this useful?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm pretty sure if you keep doing this for long enough then you prove
the four-color theorem or something.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:23:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Sorry, was that supposed to answer my question?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:23:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Edward's wearing a blanket!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:23:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:23:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Relevance?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:25:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is omega transfinite induction?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:26:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I dunno, we haven't learned that yet.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:26:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Most of class today was just going through exercises and writing your
usuual functional-programming intro stuff like fold and map in Coq)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:30:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, omega is a proof tactic that knows how to prove things in natural
and integer arithmetic.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:32:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This class is the kind of thing that makes me wish I'd gone to a
school with a bigger CS department. Or that I was going to go to grad
school, but I really have no reason to do that beyond intellectual
curiosity, and that's an awfully expensive way to satisfy
intellectual curiosity.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:33:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If you're going to a big CS grad school and paying out of pocket,
you're doing something wrong. (If by "expensive" you mean
"opportunity cost of not making mad bank in industry", then sure)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:34:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I like being able to eat things besides instant ramen"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:34:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"That's why you work at MSR (for some value of MS) over the summers"

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:37:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://mit.edu/remeyer/Public/UA/Senate/picture.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:38:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also, Ryan Normandin has a ... party?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:38:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://elections.scripts.mit.edu/candidates/?c=5_2

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:39:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Grand LEFT Swing Thru <kchen>

Maybe it's related to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_the_United_States_of_America
?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:40:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

One other MacGregor senate candidate is also calling himself Reform.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:40:41 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

vs. Orthodox?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:40:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

I didn't want to use the same picture as last year...
and that was the only other picture on my desktop that's in focus and
not a screenshot.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:46:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Is there an IMAP interface to debbugs?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:58:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

ugh the proofgeneral packaging

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 13 17:58:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Debian)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:09:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Can somebody explain to me like a 10 year old how to solve the
general knapsack problem in polynomial time?"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:10:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"Don't"?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:12:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Hola!
Knapsack, Knapsack...

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:17:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Dude, coming back to this in my scrollback buffer just made my
afternoon

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:26:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Why is my _virtualized_ USB drive slow

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:26:23 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A badly dented high-hat cymbal lies on its side here.
 <rnjacobs>

"virtualized usb 1.1"

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:26:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:27:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I think that's actually what's going on...

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:27:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You can boot off a virtio block device, right?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:28:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:29:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yes. But Windows isn't really happy with it

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:29:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(WAYRTTD: p2v my Windows partition)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm.d
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:30:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 77c44ab [PATCH] New Omnikey Cardman 4040 driver <nelhage>

Have you looked at the new KVM userspace tool?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm.d
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:30:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: kvm.d
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:30:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d6a9a43 V4L/DVB (11928): au0828: provide module option to disable USB speed check <nelhage>

It might actually be WYW for your thesis project, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:30:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

There are virtio drivers for Windows.  I failed to get them to work,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm.d
Time: Tue Sep 13 18:30:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It almost certainly is

Class: geofft Instance: discuss
Time: Tue Sep 13 19:51:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Gah why couldn't we have waited until like 2005 to invent Athena

Class: geofft Instance: discuss
Time: Tue Sep 13 19:51:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:30:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

haaaaaate

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:31:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i should just switch my machines to mirrors, i'd get the security
updates faster that way

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:32:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Are you experience IPv6 suck?

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:32:59 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Self – Uno Song
 <rnjacobs>

Or ... use cron-apt and download at off hours?

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:37:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

quentin: hm. probably. this is on 18.187

Class: geofft Instance: security.debian.org
Time: Tue Sep 13 23:40:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

also, neither mirrors nor debian.lcs seem to have squeeze/updates

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:06:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

woke up with my 7:45 alarm. stumbled to the living room. fell asleep
on the couch until 9.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:11:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

From: Cathy Zhang <dramashopmit@gmail.com>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:12:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

If your username was sparklz@mit.edu might avoid it too.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:16:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh right, I forgot about that unzhangc. I just find it confusing that
zhangc does G&S stuff and unzhangc does Dramashop stuff

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:19:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Honestly can we just patch the AFS servers to support making
index.html, .dmrc, and .k5login world-readable if they're in the root
of a locker?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:18:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

At this point, I'd be fine with giving up on AFS

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:21:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I still want to support locker types DROPBOX and SSHFS.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:20:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think that field is hardcoded at 3 characters, but sure

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Wed Sep 14 10:22:05 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

$ hesinfo thumbdrive filsys
FAT /dev/sdb1 n /media/FLASH

Class: geofft Instance: self
Time: Wed Sep 14 11:41:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... why did I download the Gmane source code yesterday?

Class: geofft Instance: self
Time: Wed Sep 14 11:42:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Sometimes I don't understand why I think certain things are good ideas

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 11:57:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Augh. all my tools suck

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 11:58:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We need a bigger classroom

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 11:59:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

E-mail is not really the world's best model...

Really I think I want "git pull" (or "svn up" or whatever) to
generate me an mbox or Maildir with "git format-patch" for every new
commit it sees, so I can then add it to my MUA and track what I
haven't reviewed by what I haven't deleted

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:00:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(This is not so much commit review from the project's perspective, as
from the developer's -- "have I read everything that's changed in this
project since last time I was able to concentrate")

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:06:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

What do you use? Just email or something like Gerrit or Rietveld?

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:06:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

E-mail, if anything.

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:07:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

And I think half my complaint is "Why are there so many repos I need
to pay attention to that do commit logs in different ways and none of
which have a formal review system set up". Like, Gerrit for the 6.858
staff git repo is clearly absurd, but I should still be aware of when
the labs change

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:12:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

I like https://github.com/ooyala/barkeep, but I may be biased since I
sat next to the guys that are developing it. The UI's pretty (better
than Rietveld, but I haven't used Gerrit). You can track multiple
repos (it only supports git but not svn though) and maybe mutiple
branches. You can also mark a commit as "reviewed" and you can search
for commits with some criteria (like if you want to see commits by a
certain person in a certain repo in a certain branch. And you can tell
it to send emails whenever someone comments on a commit or repo that
you're interested in.

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:16:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

It also has a page that spits out randomly generated quotes for when
you're feeling down about code reviews. And the BarKeep logo waves if
you hover over it.

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:21:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if setting that up on my laptop or something and tossing
all the repos I ever care about into it is wrong

Class: geofft Instance: commit-review
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:23:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

There's nothing to lose...it's not like it'll change your repos. I
believe that it just stores everything in a separate database.

Class: geofft Instance: spam.q
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:27:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

From: Puritan Rising <admin@reformedmedia.net>
To: stuffmaster@mit.edu
Subject: Headline News: Dutch Courts: Calvinists One - Blasphemers Zero

Class: geofft Instance: spam.q
Time: Wed Sep 14 12:26:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 13:43:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

.... wow, the registrar was originally going to give us a classroom
half the size of the one we're in

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 14 13:49:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Maybe I should go work at a coffeeshop between January and whenever I
start grad school

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 14 13:49:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If I get accepted to a competent grad school, and I have nothing else
to do with my time, this is not obviously wrong....

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 13:49:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

ISTR the classroom last year being overcrowded...I guess they learned.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 13:50:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's still overcrowded, but it's been getting slowly better,
unsuprisingly

Class: geofft Instance: wikpedia
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:05:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Today's featured article: MissingNo.

Class: geofft Instance: wikpedia
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:09:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<If this is done repeatedly, it becomes a matter of importuning that person and can be rather rude.> <xavid>

i,i Pokemon #0

Class: geofft Instance: wikpedia Opcode: auto
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:09:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_National_Pok%C3%A9dex_number <debothena>

Pokedex ticket 0: Unable to identify ticket 0

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:19:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(In shell, or Python, or whatever)
1. Is there a good way to parse out strings of the various forms
   geofft@mit.edu
   Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
   geofft@mit.edu (Geoffrey Thomas)
   etc. into a (possibly empty) name variable and an e-mail variable?
2. Is there a better way to convert a UNIX username to a real name
   than getent passwd $user | cut -d: -f5 | cut -d, -f1?

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:19:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

#2 - at MIT, or in general?

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:20:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A coupon for one free steak-fish at your local family diner.
 <rnjacobs>

I'm pretty certain #1 has a perl module for that.

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:21:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

jdreed: At the moment, MIT, but an answer generic for NSS would be
interesting

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:27:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Have you held an entry-level job before?
If not, I think it is a good life experience.

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:29:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, at MIT #2 is LDAP

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:30:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Blugh. I really wanted realname(1) or something

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:30:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, go write realname(1), it's not hard

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:30:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

the schema is standard.  Well, "standard"

Class: geofft Instance: code.bad-ideas
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:32:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Does our Ph server still exist?

Class: geofft Instance: code.bad-ideas
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:34:17 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What's that?

Class: geofft Instance: code.bad-ideas
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:33:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

RFC2378

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:39:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

email.util.parseddr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 14 14:51:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also, you're in industry and I'm in academia, so single-signon
actually works for me

Class: geofft Instance: code
Time: Wed Sep 14 15:03:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

2. If you’re already willing to use not-shell, you have getpwnam…

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 14 15:51:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] Andrew: OOC, why?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:27:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Googling '"samuel l. jackson" site:mathworld.wolfram.com' produces two
results.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:27:41 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do you consider this low or high?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:28:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:43:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

1. students are the bestest thing ever.
2. I had a request for an intro to gdb class... I wonder if this is
worth doing. (Alternatively, maybe I can convince someone else to do
it)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:43:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(along the lines of the git thing on Sunday)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:44:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

YES

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:44:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I feel like I understand gdb less well than I understand git,
though...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:47:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I would run that, but I don't have time.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:47:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I, uh, frequently use that tool.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 19:48:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

because I never segfault, never.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:13:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You should get an 828 TA to run it. It's totally more useful for 828.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:13:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I would run intro to gdb.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:14:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's unclear which one of us has more free time, but, go for it

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:15:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would *take* intro to gdb. I've been using it for years, and I'm
still finding new things.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:16:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Have you tried gdb -tui

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:16:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:16:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'm only taking four classes this term. I totally have free time. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:17:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

glasgall: I have students that are new to gdb _and_ C. I don't think
this would get around to covering anything you don't know if you've
been using it for years. (But, ==)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:26:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Okay, so maybe a class on "the bits of gdb you haven't figured out on
your own already, but are really useful"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:26:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right. I've been meaning to do that followup for git

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:27:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The texinfo documentation is a bit poorly indexed, I mean.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Wed Sep 14 21:27:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Attentin Athena users: On October 1, the cluster combo will be
changing. The new combo is *knock knock knock knock
stand-outside-and-look-sad*

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Sep 14 22:55:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

whyyyyy do setuid binaries exist

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:19:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I propose that you be unable to open normal files in /dev with
O_CREAT or creat() without also passing O_NOREALLY.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:21:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

And then we should add a prctl flag that enables O_NOREALLY for the
current process by default for backwards compatibility, and a sysctl
that disables that prctl, and a race condition that allows you to
modify O_NOREALLY for setuid binaries that you exec?

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:31:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

O_CLOREALLY!

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:37:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

On principal, I agree with geofft

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:39:24 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: me <eichin>

huh, I thought devfs already disallowed that, but it
clearly doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:39:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Which devfs?"

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:40:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"What's devfs"

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:40:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I want to say Linux's deprecated devfs is a fork of the tmpfs code?

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:40:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I thought devtmpfs was just a singleton instance of a tmpfs

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:40:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But no Zoroastrians.  We checked.  There just aren't any. -- ghudson on the inauguration speech <eichin>

FIIK
the ubuntu maverick one, that calls it devtmpfs, and has files like
.blkid.tab and .udev/* in it.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:41:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm not sure why it's called _dev_tmpfs, but a regular tmpfs works.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:41:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

> has files like .blkid.tab and .udev/* in it.
(That's why they invented /run)

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:42:47 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Ben Folds Five – Selfless, Cold and Composed
 <rnjacobs>

"You know, that half-broken but fast and small thing from 2.4?"

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:43:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think devtmpfs is just tmpfs that happens to start life with a
bunch of device nodes instead of empty.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:44:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm pretty sure it's also a singleton, which tmpfs in general is not

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:44:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I had the vague impression that it created new devices for
you too

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Wed Sep 14 23:45:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

skimming drivers/base/devtmpfs.c, I think you're right

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:06:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

sbuildhackathon

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:27:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:28:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I find that funny

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:28:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I was assuming everyone else on debathena-root would get the joke, but
would just continue to not understand why that software didn't start
out with a useful name

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:29:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean, I understand why it started out with the name it did

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-hackathon-names-that-only-tabbott-will-find-funy
Time: Thu Sep 15 00:29:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I was the one who changed it away from being deserving of that name

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 15 02:16:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oops, apparently I have like six students in this cluster

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 15 02:21:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha, major tactical error.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:37:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

why do people still use athrun consult punt?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:37:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

we're on reasonnable oses these days, use pkill

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:36:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

finger macros

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:37:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

It was the one I learned during.... RCC training?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:42:44 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"We are?"
Oh, hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 14:43:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

pkill even works on unreasonable OSes.

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:05:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

To: 6.858 <6.858@mit.edu>
Subject: Lab 1 crashing the server
Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 16:36:33 -0400
Resent-From: 6.858@MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:05:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I didn't think Moira lists did Resent- stuff?

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:05:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh, did this person send through Exchange, and so this is the fix for
6.858@exchange.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:05:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's precisely what it is

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:06:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

\o/

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:07:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I suppose it would be too much to ask for the same thing for Cyrus
users

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:06:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You can ask.  "Be sure to e-mail network@exchange.mit.edu"

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:07:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft@EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU>

Okay, I'll do that.

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:08:39 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:08:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Did you change your zsender or did you kinit against exchange

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:09:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

The former :)

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:09:05 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

*phew*

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Thu Sep 15 17:08:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Aww

Class: geofft Instance: asa.website/roomq
Time: Thu Sep 15 18:44:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Can you make it have a spinning, flashing swastika?"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.website/roomq
Time: Thu Sep 15 18:43:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: asa.website/roomq
Time: Thu Sep 15 18:47:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

a group once used it as their FYSM logo, well tried to...

Class: geofft Instance: asa.website/roomq
Time: Thu Sep 15 18:49:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Some Buddhist group?

Class: geofft Instance: asa/django
Time: Thu Sep 15 18:51:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

augh

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:54:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

https://careers.redhat.com/ext/detail?redhat7638

I was with you until you said "JBoss".

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:54:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

This looks more plausible:
https://careers.redhat.com/ext/detail?redhat7740

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:57:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Bah, I don't really want to say geofft@ldpreload.com until I get a
more reliable MX for it than scripts

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:58:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why aren't you using GAFYD again?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:58:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Because I don't want it to ultimately end up in Google, and I'm
underimpressed with their IMAP implementation.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:59:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(I do want it to ultimately end up in a maildir in a git repo, but I
don't have a MUA that can deal with that, so forwarding to MIT is good
enough for now)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Sep 15 19:59:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(and I am totally fine with Cyrus' IMAP implementation)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:38:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

On the things DSL spends money on: "It's like watching an
elderly person get swindled."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:39:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It ... is watching an elderly person get swindled, no?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:41:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Well.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:50:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

derpmod

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

12 _terabytes_ of melted butter?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:54:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hey, it's nowhere near a mole.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 15 22:54:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Mmm, mole.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:07:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

ttants: submit@debian.org, submit@bugs.debian.org

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:07:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... if I become a DD I kind of want to claim the username "submit" for
the lulz

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:08:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                           (^^ <mats_a>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:41:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

why am I sitting in this chair?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:42:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Because the floor is hard and unforgiving.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:42:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

As opposed to some other chair?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:42:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BUDE (n.) A polite joke reserved for use in the presence of vicars. <ahailes>

makes more sense than standing in it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:42:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yes. Specifically, in the chair in front of the computer that would be
useful for me to be using right now

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:44:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(re glasgall)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858-staff.mq
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:55:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Pushing grades.csv shouldn't break anything, so try doing it and test
the handin---you can always revert it if it breaks."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858-staff.mq
Time: Thu Sep 15 23:56:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Guys, if the handin server explodes, I just want you to know it
wasn't my fault

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:10:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I think Rachel now beats me on lines of code in the DB.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:11:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I should catch up, but I still have no idea why my local clone of the
DB doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hrm. I wonder if setting up a fresh clone in the asa locker would
work... I'm kind of afraid to find the answer

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:17:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"At least 1 year experience in Ability to work under pressure and
multi-task"

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:18:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

"Just one year?  I've been at MIT longer than that"

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:25:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Knowledge of RFC standards, specifically RFCs 2544 and 5180."

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:26:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i,i "I don't remember what those are, but I'm good at 1179, 1918,
2119, and 527, is that good enough?"

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:26:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They are apparently about benchmarking network interconnects

Class: geofft Instance: wq.jobhunt
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:26:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

That only makes the phrasing more confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:43:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, she's totally creaming you. Fail.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Sep 16 00:44:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

She's at like 5%.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:10:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

augh ttants finboard finboard-apps

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:17:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Dear HMMT chairs,
Please stop calling the tournament "HMNT". You are not a Harvard
Mutant Ninja Turtle.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:19:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

*snerk*

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:22:24 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

HMNT = Harvard-MIT November Tournament. Are they using it inconsistently?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:22:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Ohhhh.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:22:50 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

It took me a while to figure this out, too.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:23:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

That makes sense now.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:48:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://www.sap.com/industries/publicsector/public/businessprocesses/security/index.epx

"Border security – SAP solutions can enable you to maintain optimal
control of border security while enhancing the appropriate flow of
people and goods across borders."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 16 01:48:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I feel really really unsafe now.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 16 02:04:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://ib.frath.net/w/Jorge_Bush

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 16 02:15:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

It's a shared-alternate universe.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 16 02:16:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

a week from monday

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 16 02:17:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 03:58:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yay resume no longer contains the words "Java" or "machine learning"
and now includes the word "sandboxing"

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 03:59:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

On the other hand, it no longer contains the words "Ron Rivest",
which may or may not be a good thing. I guess name-dropping in
resumes is probably more awkward than it's worth.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 03:59:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh, I also have the word "security" _twice_

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 03:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"clearly I should just replace my resume with a tag cloud"

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:00:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

more importantly, the font size is now reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:01:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

"Does it have the word cloud? 
you should make sure it has the word cloud."

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:02:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

honestly, a tag cloud & a bullet pointed timeline would be far more
useful to me than most resumes.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:04:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

afarrell: No, but it says "git" and "Akamai" twice, which are both
kind of like cloud.

Class: geofft Instance: resume
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:06:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I really do wish I knew how people read resumes

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.eip
Time: Fri Sep 16 04:13:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We could have made lab 1 easier in some subtle ways... maybe it's
worth noting this down for next year

Class: geofft Instance: spam.q
Time: Fri Sep 16 10:23:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

From: Puritan Rising <admin@reformedmedia.net>
To: stuffmaster@mit.edu
Subject: FREE eBook - He Shall Have Dominion: A Postmillennial Eschatology by Ken Gentry

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:40:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"Shank you Geoff!"
"What?"  "Ow."

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:45:38 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Bethany?

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:46:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

How'd you guess.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:46:20 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

She says that a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:46:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

You must get shanked a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Fri Sep 16 11:46:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's a wonder you're even alive

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:18:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Maybe the UA won't let you voice your views... but IS&T will.

Come to _DebateThena_, tonight in the SIPB office...

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:18:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I would go to a debate held entirely over zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:20:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mel Lancaster, Traveler <xavid>

I think that's called -c white-magic.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:23:39 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Are there people there???

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:23:50 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

omg am I missing out on an extra dose of Nick?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:24:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Maybe. But you can also sub to -c civil-discourse, which is like
white-magic but with only civil discourse.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:24:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(True to its mission statement, it hasn't had traffic in years.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 16 12:46:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Concerning that of which we cannot speak, we must be silent"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:35:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

To: "6.858-staff@pdos.csail.mit.edu"
<6.858-staff@amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:35:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I give up on understanding email

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:37:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass Thru & Cloverleaf <kchen>

Looks like it's MIT's rewriting headers for mail to hosts with a CNAME
record:
pdos.csail.mit.edu.     1800    IN      CNAME   amsterdam.lcs.mit.edu.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:37:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh right, MIT does that.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:38:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i,i exchange.mit.edu IN CNAME mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:37:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:42:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I wonder if I have time to install a disk for XVM, shower, and get to
release-team?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:41:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're already on campus, so there's that.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:43:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

It's true, but XVM is only barely on campus and my shower definitely
isn't.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:43:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I Zesiger

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:42:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Aren't there still "public" showers on campus?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:44:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yes, but I don't have a change of clothes on campus.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:44:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sides Swing Thru <kchen>

I think so, but ==kaduk.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:44:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Stata basement is particularly convenient)

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:43:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The Coop sells clothes...

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Sep 16 13:43:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(Or I coudl stop wasting your time and just let you go and hope you
make it.  But I think it's still a "pick 2" from your list)

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:27:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

is there a vending machine in w91?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:26:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Soda, yes

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:26:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I forget whether it's upstairs or on the ground floor

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:27:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There's a snack machine in E19-1xx

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:27:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And -3xx

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:28:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"And Heather Anne is coming, so maybe she baked something"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:29:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"I baked scones, but can't make release team"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:29:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm still going to have my sandwich now, though.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:29:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

no, i actually want a soda.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:28:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Then yes, there is one (I'm almost positive)

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:29:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

First you make me jealous with sushi, then scones

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Fri Sep 16 14:30:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"I do what I can"

Class: geofft Instance: moira.what
Time: Fri Sep 16 16:36:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Clover And Fan The Top <kchen>

re: yesterday

This just happened again today for me (itpartners/ist-all just now),
and I noticed that I got both the @exchange and the non-@exchange
messages, both with the same Message-ID.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Sep 16 17:17:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

???

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Sep 16 17:18:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

why is kerberos slow?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Sep 16 17:19:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I was... wondering that.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:19:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

debathena / mit-secure / geofft  2011-09-16 18:17
    You authenticate via a network widget in gdm
rye / work / kchen  2011-09-16 18:18  (Chain The Square)
    Or ask your mentor/manager/whoever to do it for you.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:23:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh huh, Ramesh was a MokaFive cofounder.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:23:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:23:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I just knew he was a grad student, I don't look up people's
backstories when I meet them

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:24:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I guess I was busy being entertained by the fact that he's working for
Nickolai

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:26:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

This isn't Ramesh Raskar of the Media Lab, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:32:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Sep 16 18:32:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

broder: Right

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Sep 17 00:17:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Why do I never see the word "tendentious" used on zephyr except in
conversations where one or more of keithw and price are involved?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Sep 17 00:17:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Just sayin'.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.n-c
Time: Sat Sep 17 00:22:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/misc-jackie-chan-l.png

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep 17 01:12:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:07:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We had a long conversation at dinner last night among me, a course 6
MEng '07 who's now research staff in the Media Lab, a course 6 Ph.D.
'10 who's now VMware, my housemate who's finishing up seminary at
Gordon-Conwell to be a missionary pilot (and was MIT MEng '01 or
so?), and one of her classmates who's now an associate pastor or so
at their church. (Aside: I realize I should expect this by now, but
it's really odd to be introduced to someone as a pastor and
seminarian and have them talk about how they've seen @i(Serenity) ten
times and can quote the whole thing.) Oh, and a Dartmouth Ph.D. who's
now at Whitehead.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:09:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I think it mostly started when $pastor was talking about LAN parties
in high school, and the conversation turned to hubs and switches for
the benefit of $biologist who was lost, and then $housemate started
complaining about how MIT doesn't actually teach you these things.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:10:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

$media_lab_person asked a question about NATs, I gave a concise
explanation about how they work, and she responded with "where did
you learn that". The thesis is that the MIT curriculum is missing a
lot of ground knowledge, and expects students to pick it up from
somewhere else, and often they don't... (because obviously he didn't
pick it up from doing an MEng, and she says she didn't until a few
years out of college)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

So one interesting thing is that MIT and in general good computer
science graduate programs put more or less zero effort into teaching
Ph.D. candidates how to be good teachers, and into hiring professors
based on how well they teach. Apparently Gordon-Conwell does consider
this aspect in professors, and does also have specific classes on, for
instance, how to be a pastor. Admittedly the focus of a seminary is a
little different and it makes sense to have that class.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:13:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

But they also have this thing called "mentor ministry" which you're
required to do which involves shadowing / working supervised by some
other established minister in a lot of ministry contexts and picking
up stuff. Sometimes it works better than other times.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:15:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

As far as producing software engineers for industry instead of
academics (the equivalent of seminaries producing pastors instead of
theologians), that is kind of a model that isn't very formalized in
the curriculum, with the exception of things like VI-A. (It's not at
undergrad.) But the reason we can get away with that is that you can
do software engineering internships. You go to a company, they give
you a project that can easily never see the light of day if it fails,
you work on it for three months, and then you walk away. The industry
has learned that giving this sort of thing to students is good for the
industry as a whole.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:16:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

There isn't really an equivalent for seminarians (and especially for
pastors / pastoral counseling folks, which is what $pastor is
studying). You can't give someone a congregation for three months,
tell them to have fun, and shut down the congregation at the end if
everything went badly.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:18:09 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

> So one interesting thing is that MIT and in general good computer
> science graduate programs put more or less zero effort into teaching
> Ph.D. candidates how to be good teachers, and into hiring professors
> based on how well they teach.

I've spoken to at least one alum who claims MIT wasn't originally
this way, and that the change occurred in the mid-1970s (according to
him, Sussman was about the last professor hired under the old
program).  He asserts that we're just now really starting to see the
consequences, since the people hired in the '70s as postdocs are now
becoming senior administrators.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:18:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

So in addition to mentor ministry, his counseling classes have mock
counseling sessions... you're graded on how you interact with a
person, pick up what their issues are, act non-judgmentally, realize
when you need to punt to someone trained in mental health, etc. etc.
It occurs to me that we basically don't do this in software
engineering at all, and we could and it would be better.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:20:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We basically have no software engineering classes where you work on a
problem for an hour or more and someone _watches the way you think_
and break down the problem and set up the code, and gives you feedback
in detail. Occasionally TAs and LAs will help people iteratively, but
it's mostly "I got this far and now I'm stuck", and can't give
feedback on how they started out the problem in the first place. (And
faculty certainly won't be doing this, although admittedly I don't
know if the people grading you on mock counseling at Gordon-Conwell
are faculty or just previous students)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:21:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

> There isn't really an equivalent for seminarians (and especially for
> pastors / pastoral counseling folks, which is what $pastor is
> studying).

Most seminarians I know do Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE), which is
a summer/period of time like an internship, but in a place like a
hospital to work with persons in crisis. They also do a year of
field work, where they work with a pastor at a church, preaching
occasionally and getting involved in aspects of being a pastor. 

(I realize this isn't actualy the point you were making, but thought
you might be interested anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:21:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

That said, there are a couple of commmon things. I was complaining
about how I felt ill-prepared and ill-advised about how to give the
one lecture I covered last term for 6.857 and didn't really expect
that to change between now and the first lecture I give as a
professor, because the Ph.D. program isn't going to teach me this.
$pastor said it was much the same for him, and a lot of what helped
him was leadership of some religious student group in college.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:22:26 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

There are a lot of words there, but FBC Newton has a
student minister from Andover Newton basically every year.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:22:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

And hey, student groups are good places to learn leadership skills,
religious or secular...

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:23:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

rkw/tibbetts: How directly are they working under someone? I get the
impression that this is much more supervised than your average
software internship

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:23:30 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

the student minister program is like 9 months long, and
includes a small additional stipend paid by the host
church, about $3k I think.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:24:07 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

A working minister has to commit to supervise them, and I
think there is also a supervisory committee of like 3
members, including that minister and two lay leaders, but
I'm sure supervision is variable.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:24:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh yeah, I did hear that quality is variable. ($housemate seems to
have gotten more out of it than $pastor did) It's just interesting the
program exists at all.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:25:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

My understanding is that it's more supervised, but I have done
neither. 

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:25:28 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

One of the reasons there are lots and lots of programs to
support pastors, cynically, is that there is a shortage of
new people going into ministry, and the people who are
going into minsitry are of highly variable quality.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:25:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If we're being cynical, the latter is definitely true of software
engineering :)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:26:11 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

A pet issue of some of the rtired ministers I hang around
with is that most ministers used to be top-third high
school graduates and go to major universities for undergrad
before seminary, and that's not the case anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:26:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Software engineering people are also variable, but most
peopl ein industry solve this by trying not to hire the bad
ones.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 11:50:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

To jump back to the start of the conversation (and therefore
deliberately miss the point you're making entirely), "how NATs work" is
covered in 6.033

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:02:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

That's some award winning missing the point. :)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:04:18 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

My model of the MIT education, which I think takes into
account most of these points, is that MIT doesn't care
hardly at all if you learn enough to do a particular job in
the real world or anything like that, they are much more
interested in presenting the information that the top
quartile of the class will benefit from learning in
addition to all the stuff they will naturally learn from
the environment. This is fabulous if you are in the top
quartile. I think most MIT majors (at least math, physics,
and CS) do a great disservice to the bottom quartile of
their students.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:04:50 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

So any proposed "fix" to MIT shoudl at least state the
problem to be fixed: are you talking about fixing the top
student experience, the median student experience, or the
bottom student experience?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:13:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> that is kind of a model that isn't very formalized in the curriculum,
> with the exception of things like VI-A. (It's not at undergrad.)

This is what 6.005/6.170 are for, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:17:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       My model of the MIT education, which I think takes into
       account most of these points, is that MIT doesn't care
       hardly at all if you learn enough to do a particular job in
       the real world or anything like that, they are much more
       interested in presenting the information that the top
       quartile of the class will benefit from learning in
       addition to all the stuff they will naturally learn from
       the environment. This is fabulous if you are in the top
       quartile. I think most MIT majors (at least math, physics,
       and CS) do a great disservice to the bottom quartile of
       their students.

I bet this is a win for me. <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:18:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(And for a lot of SIPB members, at least of the sorts doing projects?)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:19:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Yeah, basically.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:20:06 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Frankly, even SIPB members who don't do coding projects get
a lot of additional value out of SIPB, though it doesn have
the problem that they develop feelings of inferiority that
take a few years to work out.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 12:20:39 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: academia.d
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:26:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Sorry, $housemate and $other_housemate and I had breakfast and started
talking about dispensationalism vs. covenant theology and how Bible
commentaries are like Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition because
you can't make sense of either the Bible or a kernel if you just try
to read it cover-to-cover

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:27:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

broder: ==tibbetts. You understand how NATs work from a theoretical
perspective without ever connecting it to "how my Internet at home
works" and "why I can't run a web server on my laptop at home but can
in my dorm room", so you get it right on the test and walk away with
no _understanding_

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:28:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

adehnert: Yes, being around SIPB fills large gaps in your curriculum.
(This is why I think XVM is a valuable service, because it fills gaps
in the course 6 curriculum for students who aren't in SIPB.)

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:31:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Do feelings of inferiority result from just not doing these projects
or from trying (or wanting to w/o concrete action) and not succeeding?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:31:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

> This is what 6.005/6.170 are for, isn't it?

When I took 6.170 (real 6.170 with antichess, not this web crap),
there was just about no supervision of how you actually coded. You
were told how to code and then sent off back to your dorm to code...
6.004 had more supervision/mentoring.

In any case, neither of these are apprenticeships, which is I think
the right term for the curricularly-required experience in seminary

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:32:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

afarrell: I don't know, but I want to think about a different
example... what if we formalized some part of the SIPB experience
into the curriculum? What if you had to do a student-directed project
with the help of some upperclassman _early_ in your undergrad career
(i.e., well before your UAP)?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:33:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

tibbetts: I'm not sure that's a fair dichotomy. I walked out of 6.828
without understanding RCU because I was, in the literal firehose
imagee, hosed. I didn't have time to read and understand the paper on
my own and the class didn't help. It turns out that RCU is kind of an
interesting thing to learn...

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:35:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Best idea for new server names: MONGO-DB.MIT.EDU and WEB-SCALE.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:35:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I think that would be difficult to design correctly,
though it might be worth a try.

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:36:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Why not DEVNULL.MIT.EDU?

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:36:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

SUPPORTS-SHARDING.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:37:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

GREAT-BENCHMARKS.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:49:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Re "mock counseling sessions": That sounds costly to implement.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:50:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

(starking

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:50:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

You mean the ones they do, or the hypothetical course 6 equivalent?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:50:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

As far as I can tell, the former are no

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:51:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

So, latter.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:51:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

*not

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:51:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

This intuition may be wrong, for precisely the same reason that it's
possible to do mock counseling sessions.

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:53:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Voldemort
wat

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:54:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Ooh. CONSISTENCY-AVAILABILITY.MIT.EDU and PARTITION-TOLERANCE.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:56:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What?! You're not allowed to have all three!

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:56:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, which is why the first server doesn't have partition-tolerance
and the second server doesn't have anything else

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:56:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Aww, ternus took c-a.

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:56:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

And... mmanley took p-t.

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:58:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

I feel like there aren't many nice X-X names left.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Sep 17 13:59:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       When I took 6.170 (real 6.170 with antichess, not this web crap),
       there was just about no supervision of how you actually coded. You
       were told how to code and then sent off back to your dorm to code...
       6.004 had more supervision/mentoring.

I'm pretty sure they did some criticism on our coding, or at least
our design?

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 14:00:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

DEVNULL does seem appropriate for sql.mit.edu...

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 14:00:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I know, right!

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 14:01:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'd rather not do anything NoSQLy until we actually provide something
relevant. (Certainly not MongoDB or whatnot.)

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 14:02:07 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Trolling for fun and profit <aatharuv>

BLACKHOLE

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Sat Sep 17 14:32:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

KEYTABS FOR THE KEYTAB GOD, SRVTABS FOR THE SRVTAB THRONE

Class: geofft Instance: sql
Time: Sat Sep 17 16:35:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) EVENTUALLY-CONSISTENT

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 16:48:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Wow, Reddit is like completely unusable

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 16:48:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

LWN looks ... more or less reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 16:52:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which netscape? Andwhy?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:01:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"You're not helping"

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:05:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

athrun infoagents netscape

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Because my Firefox profile was locked, and I wanted another browser.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:06:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is that 4.7 or something?

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:05:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And that was easier than "apt-get install seamonkey"?

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:05:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, are you runninng _Netscape_ or Mozilla?

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:06:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If actually Netscape, then yes, enjoy 1999

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

He's running "don't do that".

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, apt-get install doesn't work on Athena 9

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

jdreed: ?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:08:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Did my mail get forwarded to you? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:06:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It did

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:08:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yayyyy

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

rpm -ivh does

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:07:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, I thought you were all about xlinks?

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:08:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mean, Netscape 7.3 or something existed in, like,the mid-2000s.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:08:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Netscape > 4.x was just rebranded Mozilla, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:09:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ish? I think maybe it integrated better with Netscape Mail.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:08:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

haha, I forgot that was a thing

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:10:11 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It was! I used it BITD, before free mail with IMAP access was common.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:10:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm going to pretend that I didn't hear that.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:10:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:10:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Netscape 6.x+ was rebadged and crufted-up seamonkey, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:10:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm mainly disappointed because you know as well as I do that 2GB of
quota does not equal 2 GB of physical disk space, and that "I can buy
a 2TB USB drive on Amazon for $50" is no more useful than "Just fix
the WiFi by going to the Galleria buying a bunch of WRT54g's"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:12:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What email?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:11:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(I know you didn't say anything about buying cheap USB drives, but
there are plenty of people at MIT who think that that's relevant)

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:13:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

8 and 9 were actually Firefox.

Class: geofft Instance: netscape
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:13:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think I recall something about it having had its popup blocker
disabled, too, because netscape had been bought by AOL and AOL wanted
to show popup ads.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:20:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

/mit/geofft/Ptmp/ua-technology-quota.txt

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:29:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In all seriousness, can you make sure this hits ISTAB, via your
friendly neighborhood UA rep.  Since this is totally within ISTAB's
charter

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:32:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, but I can try to make it hit ISTAB via my friendly neighborhood
ASA rep?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:32:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Hm, is that me? It's not, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:32:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No.  Why ASA?  Isn't this discussion happening on UA lists?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:51:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"I'm not a UA constitutent"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:50:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"i hear we have a gsc rep"

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:55:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... okay, apparently our clock was off by 0.01 seconds and we were
getting "clock skew too great". ntpdate fixed it.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 17 17:56:09 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 18:53:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can't you, like, add things to the ISTAB agenda yourself?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 18:55:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(The UA rep is me. The UA doesn't represent you, but whatever. If it
comes down to "Do we do the thing that'll screw over undergrads or
the one that'll screw over grads, I'm bound to pick the former. Other
than that, I don't think there's much of a reason to preference which
rep you talk to beyond "pick one you know".)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 17 18:55:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(ASA = Kendra. SIPB = bbaren.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep 17 23:19:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, do I want to go home or something?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep 17 23:20:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I guess I could also go to Chicago Pizza and hack for another four
hours.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Sat Sep 17 23:48:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

AIish
Allah

They look very similar in this font.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:39:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:39:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:39:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:39:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:39:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Does it feel like a trial? <lapentab>

?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:40:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... huh, okay, that isn't horrendously insecure. I wonder if you were
sufficiently incompetent as to not do the insecure thing you were
trying to do.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:41:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Take a look at /usr/bin/cl-dump on a scripts server. It looks for all
the world like it should end up with LD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/lib, which
includes the empty string, which means "search the current directory",
but it doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:42:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm not sure LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib is _useful_ in any way, but it's
at least not deadly wrong

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:43:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, I thought .:blah searched the current directory, and :blah did
nothing?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:43:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, :blah searches the current directory, as does LD_LIBRARY_PATH=""

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:44:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also, wont test -z mean it doesn't add ""?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:44:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It's pure brilliance.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:44:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I... didn't even read that, because it then proceeds to explicitly
call the function on ""

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:46:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which makes no sense to me.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:46:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But that's less of a security fail and more of a "you suck at coding"

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:46:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I am going to be generous and assume this is auto-generated

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:47:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's probably right.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:47:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

And it's really trying to add /opt and /usr/local/lib, and not "" and
/usr/lib

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Sun Sep 18 00:47:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(or intended to, rather)

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:08:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Straw poll, if IS&T were to double exactly one of the default AFS
(2GB), mail (2GB), or print quotas (3000 pages/term), which would you
find most useful to you to double?

Then ask the nearest person who doesn't use zephyr (or guess on
their behalf).

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:09:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Lechmere. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

mail

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:09:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I suspect for me the answer is mail, since much of what's making me
ask for Athena quota bumps is dumps of old mail.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:09:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

AFS

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:10:37 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Arbitrary guess: People who use zephyr use athena so will use AFS.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:10:46 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Don't mess with shopkeepers, or you'll get the Guild after you.
 <rnjacobs>

Especially given the number of cruft :p

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:10:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

mail

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:11:37 2011 Host: GREAT-TYPHOON.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Weaver <pweaver>

I can already ask for a quota bump. Will they give me a mail bump if I
ask for one?

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:11:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

> quota -v
Disk quotas for dwilson (uid 17214):
Filesystem          usage    quota    limit       files   quota limit
/mit/dwilson      1241197  2000000  2000000
--------------
> mailquota
Quota               KB Used     KB Max  KB %     # Msgs    # Max  #%
user.dwilson        2100193    2560000   82%          -        -  -
--------------
Current pages remaining: 2998
--------------

"take a guess"

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:13:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

You can ask for a mail quota bump.  It's not as huge of a bump, and
you might have to justify yourself more.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:14:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

rnjacobs: Yes, hence the "ask the closest person who doesn't use
zephyr"

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:14:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

pweaver:  ==kchen.  "look closely at the numbers I zephyred just now"
:)

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:16:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Park Street. Change here for the Red and Orange Lines. Doors will open on both sides. <stum>

out of band: "i've never had a problem with any of those." he also had
to ask what AFS was, and he forwards to gmail.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:16:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Does he want Gmail to give him a bigger quota?

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:16:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

most i know not on zephyr fwd to gmail so really print is all they care
about.

also only printing is one that money gets you morw, so instead of doing
creative things to print less like peoople use dropbox or backups to
disk for afs and nail, printing really feels worth more

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:16:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Museum of Fine Arts. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

geoff: "i delete, so no."

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Why do people forward to Gmail?

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:30 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Unanimous agreement amongst the half-dozen or so[*] (me, Ben, rkw, Gary,
Sam, Matt, Xavier, Liz) people I asked in favor of AFS.

At least one person indicated that this was partially b/c of
forwarding to Gmail.

[*] Plus Amanda, who wasn't sure.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

For me, archiving and searching.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Well, the gmail interface is shiny. Also ~7gb quota. Personally, I
don't forward. I suffer with exchange.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I can think of, off the top of my head
1) better web client
2) more quota
3) better search capabilities
4) it's what they were using before MIT

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:19:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

The interface is better. also archiving and searching.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

also, I can get at my mail from my phone.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Do people actually prefer the Gmail web interface to non-web
interfaces?

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:18:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Don't underestimate #4

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I do

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Android works perfectly well with exchange

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else.d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:37 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Why do people forward to Gmail?

search.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:20:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

adehnert: Huh, is that "AFS is actually useful to me if bumped", or
"the rest are definitely not useful if bumped, so I might as well say
AFS"?

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:22:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I would vote for mail. (I don't forward.)

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:22:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

(I like that MIT doesn't try to do things to my mail the way gmail
does.)

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:26:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Winchester Street/Summit Avenue. <stum>

i split to gmail because it's easier to get at on my phone, i never
have to delete anything ever and it's easier to search.

gmail is a shitty web interface, and i much prefer thunderbird.

Class: geofft Instance: quotas.else
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:28:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Honestly, I think mostly it was "they're all useless, but disk is
less so".

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:44:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Plan 9 for Android

http://www.android-dev.ro/2011/09/17/hellaphone-inferno-os-for-android-phones-no-java-included/

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:45:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Did you miss the /. yesterday?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:45:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Apparently

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Sun Sep 18 21:52:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"We’ve dubbed it the Hellaphone–it was originally Hellphone, to keep
with the Inferno theme, but then we realized we’re in Northern
California and the change was obvious."

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Sep 18 22:24:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Elevator Pitch Competition
an attempt to see who can tilt an elevator the fastest

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Sep 18 22:25:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

s/tilt/trebuchet/
s/fast/far/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep 18 22:28:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

distracted...

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:54:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

... someone bought ramen?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:55:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm trying to decide between "why would you ever buy ramen" and "ooh I
should make some"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:55:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Vilify, don't even try. <lapentab>

Do the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:56:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You don't buy ramen. It appears.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:56:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Exile, it takes your mind, again. <lapentab>

(Unless it's the kind with MSG then don't cause that's bad for you.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:56:19 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... there's ramen without msg?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:56:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Did you fall for the same empty answers again? <lapentab>

Yeah if you get it from an organic/healthfood place

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:58:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If it costs more than 20 cents, it isn't ramen any more.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:58:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Do they have real ramen shops in Boston? I mean restaurants serving
the actual stuff, not stores selling the kinds in packets.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:58:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that Vlad lives!!! ... in the mazes.
 <rnjacobs>

s/isn't ramen any more/is actually worth eating/

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:58:59 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A traffic signal. It appears to have been recently vandalized.
 <rnjacobs>

Yeah, Porter Exchange.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Sep 18 23:59:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ahyeah, right.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:11:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Apparently Red Hat has an open position in Mountain View, Czech
Republic.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:11:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I'm a little confused about where California is right now

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:12:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That way <---

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:13:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, by "Mountain View" they seem to mean "Brno".

I wonder if reporting a bug in careers.redhat.com is productive.
(Worst-case outcome: "That guy's a pedant, let's not hire him."
Second-worst-case outcome: "So, careers.redhat.com needs more
developers...")

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:14:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, they also have an opening in Toronto, MA.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:16:17 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The trick is to @i(truly value) the shiny objects <eichin>

ah, these are "easy" ones, as opposed to having one in Ontario, CA...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:17:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Wow. How has that city like not disappeared thanks to incompetent
databases?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:18:22 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Jaguar Crown Victoria <eichin>

it is (or at least used to be) a major UPS shipping hub,
I got packages from there all the time :-)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:18:55 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Graduate of the Miles Naismith School of Management <eichin>

(the california one, I mean.)
zipcodes presumably help.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:20:42 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... it's a very unambiguous system. <eichin>

come to think of it, we probably have the data to
find out how many US cities have foreign exact duplicates.  (though I
half-suspect the answer is "all of them" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:37:41 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Wishing too much may bring you too little.
 <rnjacobs>

(I can say with confidence that "virginia beach" doesn't have a foreign duplicate ;))

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:39:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Or "Truth or Consequences"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:55:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

<3 Peru, Maine

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:55:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

Also Mexico, Maine

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:56:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

also Poland

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:56:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I honestly am surprised you forgot Poland.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:57:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Did you know, there is a brand of vodka called "Poland Spring Vodka"
(made by a company headquartered in Lewiston).

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 02:58:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yep.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 04:02:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"- At least 3 years experience in LINUX or related responsibilities
- At least 5 years experience in sever administration or server related
responsibilities
- At least 2 years experience in in the following Microsoft Software:
Excel, Word, PowerPoint and Project"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Sep 19 05:45:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Apparently this automated resume parser thinks my first name is
"VMware, Inc." and my last name is "June".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 10:32:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i should apply for jobs every week, it keeps me dayshifted

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:07:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

nickolai.q: "We still have students in the class after lab 1, that's a
good sign"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:07:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Exciting, I can sit down on a chair instead of the floor

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:08:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

doesn't this happen with basically every class?  (Particularly
grad-level ones?)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Sure, I'm just amused at the clean temporal distinction between
"there are twenty students and a TA on the floor" and "there are empty
chairs"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:15:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

For Demaine's advanced data structures class last year, we started
with 30+ people the first week, and were overflowing one of the 36-1xx
rooms--so he asked for a larger room.  
The only larger room available at that time was...26-100.  
Of course, half the class dropped after the first week or two, so we
ended up having a class in 26-100 with ~15 people.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:27:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We run CUPS _1.3.8_? FML and FMLenny

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:27:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This is regular lpd, it shouldn't matter

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:33:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

<3 Nickolai trying to teach the UNIX permissions model while clearly
hating every aspect of it

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:33:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"For some reason the kernel represents the list of groups as... the
main group... and the rest of the groups"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:34:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bcee5ba [PATCH] USB storage: add error checks, remove useless code <nelhage>

God I hate UNIX permissions so much

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:35:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Historical reasons, as usual.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:36:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We previously went over how to do intersection of privileges with the
/directory-owned-by-group-1/directory-owned-by-group-2/file trick,
which apparently elicited laughter from the class

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:36:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It used to be the case that you could only be active in one group at a
time and you had to use "newgrp" to switch which one that was.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:37:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did you talk about how that doesn't actually work if you leak an FD?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:38:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We talked about passing FDs over UNIX sockets. We didn't yet talk
about the stupid scripts thing. (I was intending to mention it to him
after class)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:41:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 03680b1 [MTD] [NAND] S3C2410 correctly set nFCE over resume <nelhage>

I remember when 6.828 old us about passing FDs over UNIX sockets, we
were all skeptical this was actually possible, because no one could
figure out how to do it from the man pages.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:41:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

We give the students a library to do it.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:42:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 47eaebf [ALSA] Use standard bitmap functions <nelhage>

Yeah, I have my own utility functions to do it I copy/paste around,
these days.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:42:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d152a7d [TCP]: Must count fack_count also when skipping <nelhage>

I ... have levelled up significantly in Linux syscall arcana since
taking 6.828.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 11:42:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

zookws is basically OKWS with more security holes and fewer people
flirting with you.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Mon Sep 19 12:24:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I can't decide what I think about ioctls vs. syscalls for interfaces
that only need to be accessed by a single userspace program ever.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Mon Sep 19 12:25:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

device-mapper and the routing table come to mind, at the moment.

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Mon Sep 19 12:34:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c401b04 of_serial: Use linux/of_platform.h instead of asm <nelhage>

How do you feel about netlink?

Class: geofft Instance: unix
Time: Mon Sep 19 12:52:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Honestly, "I wish I knew more about it"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 13:22:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, look, mail to r-h-t@@exchange.mit.edu.
"They must not have actually fixed it"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 13:33:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

afk interv=view

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:20:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Okay, good, I have ... ten minutes until the next one.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:21:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Whoever designed life such that I have one semester to finish a
thesis, find a job, apply for grad school, apply for fellowships and
take the GRE and fun stuff, decide whether I want to go to academia
or insdustry, and pass off all my SIPB projects and other stuff to
younger people sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:22:04 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

i,i Release team should decide geofft should MEng again.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:23:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I am increasingly tempted to go cry at anneh for a fourth term now.
Like, it would risk me not actually putting _any_ time into my thesis
this term, but it would also just suck less

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:23:45 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I was under the impresion that 4th terms are not even an exception to
any rule

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:24:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass the Ocean <kchen>

My understanding is that it's an exception in the sense that you're
required to cry.  (For some definitions of require.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:24:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

==kchen

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:24:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SCULLET (n.) The last teaspoon in the washing up. <ahailes>

(and cry)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I think you're also specifically required to cry "wahhh I was TAing
the last three terms wahhh", but I can do that

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:25:39 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Oh, then you even get free support right?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:26:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

I don't think so.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:27:16 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I thought TA was a 3 semesters of support for 2 terms of TAing.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:27:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Trade <kchen>

I've never heard of that, although if you heard it from a reputable
source, maybe it exists.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:28:06 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

"I had this conversation with anneh a few months ago."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:33:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh. I haven't heard of that... "Why don't I have free support this
term"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:33:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I would imagine they'd have me TAing a fourth term and I'd just hope
to actually be able to focus in IAP or summer or something.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:35:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is there actually a Real Library that makes this sufficiently easy? I
had run into...libancillary, I think? to do this, but it's in the
Ubuntu archive and therefore in my mind doesn't actually exist

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:35:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No. We have a couple of helper functions we give as part of the staff
code that work, possibly assuming things about the way they'll be used

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:36:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<sleeping in the temple / the serious-looking face / is moon-viewing (Bashō)> <xavid>

My impression was that most people got at least a term of RAship,
which is distinctly easier to these during than a TAship.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:37:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, I've mostly failed at that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:38:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, libancillary can do this -
http://www.normalesup.org/~george/comp/libancillary/ - it has things
like
int ancil_send_fd(socket, file_descriptor)
int ancil_recv_fd(socket, file_descriptor)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:38:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

D-Bus also supports passing fds with method calls. I don't know how
well it works/how hard it is to use/if it's accessible from Python
(which are, in order, my criteria for evaluating if it matters)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:41:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

afk interview

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 14:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

My impression was the opposite for MEng students.  It may depend on
to what extent your prof has funding, but I TAed both terms of my MEng
year (and only once since becoming a PhD student, this being my fifth
term as the latter).
It is certainly easier to do thesis work when you don't have TA
responsibilities.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:14:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Seriously, I'm out of minutes?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:14:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Interviewing does that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:23:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, I kind of look like a boor. I should go home and shower and
shave...

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:25:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<According to archery instructions the right and left hands are supposed to be level, but the right hand has a tendency to go higher. (from @i(Hagakure))> <xavid>

boor
boar

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:26:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I do not eat lead. <ternus>

Boer

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:27:12 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

bore

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:27:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I've wondered if they are related.
"you pig"

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:31:55 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

There's a famous story from the first-century "Horace meets a Bore."
There's a real problem with Latin teachers spoonerizing it.

Class: geofft Instance: status.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 15:42:08 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

bohr

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:39:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Vaguely exhausted.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:39:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

Did they suck out your blood too?!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:39:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"mostly because phone interviews involve a lot of pacing back and
forth"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:52:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: measuring inexactness of the mitochondrial respiratory chain complex since the 1960s <ageng>

I do that too! And then the people I'm talking to can't hear anything
because my floor creaks like crazy.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:57:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh good, it's not just me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 16:58:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Okay, argued with someone on Reddit about heaven and hell by quoting
C. S. Lewis at them. AFK again

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 18:51:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Bah, I have to figure out how to say "sorry, I'm talking to too many
companies already and I'm not really interested in y'all"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 18:52:38 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I usually go for thanking them profusely for their offer as a smoke
screen.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:00:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I mean, is "I'm not interested in opportunities with $company at this
time" sufficient? Do I need to give some plausible reason why?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:00:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I replied to the google recruiter (three weeks late) noting that I
still had a bunch of time left in the Ph.D..

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:00:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Well, I'm talking to other companies, is the awkward thing.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:00:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Only if you feel some social obligation to the person contacting you.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:01:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

They say they're going to call me, so I can't just ignore them

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:01:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(I feel like "I know someone who was/is at $company and hasn't
convinced me I'll find it enjoyable" is probably not really
appropriate, even if it's probably the most useful thing they could
hear.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:02:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(Alternatively, I bet "I was at $company and it didn't really convince
me I'll find it enjoyable" is about to come up...)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:04:47 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Let your fingers do the walking on the yulkjhnb keys.
 <rnjacobs>

If you're ok with a little duplicity, you could say that you're too busy right
now, and could they please contact you later (after you have an offer from
someone else)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:04:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also, I need a better word than "opportunities".

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:07:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Also for "at this time".

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:16:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<There is a way of bringing up the child of a samurai. (from @i(Hagakure))> <xavid>

I think you're overthinking this.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 19 19:22:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

*sigh* -> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Sep 19 20:53:31 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"Now" is generally a good substitue for "at this time" =P

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:48:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh, I wonder if we're seeing the downfall of zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:49:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:50:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:50:38 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:50:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

A bunch of people (myself included) are apparently slowly moving
towards "I'm only reading my own class and project classes I care
about and personals"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:50:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

If you scale this out enough, personal classes stop working.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:51:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ddd10ec x86: get rid of commenced mask. <nelhage>

You may also just be seeing your/my generation growing up.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:51:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:51:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I've been hearing the bootsteps of the forces of Zephyr's downfall
since freshman year.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:52:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"But zephyr only really works as a medium when it's full of cruft who
haven't grown up"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:52:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: fb7ccc9 Fixed problem with get_cmd_string not existing if CONFIG_IPW_DEBUG disabled. <nelhage>

I don't think it's impossible we're seeing the slow downfall of
Zephyr, but I feel like my theory is a better fit for the immediate
data points.

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:59:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Why would you ever name a variable in a Python program "virtual_env"
when it has nothing to do with virtualenv augh

Class: geofft Instance: pypy
Time: Mon Sep 19 22:59:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b18485e swiotlb: Remove the swiotlb variable usage <nelhage>

PyPy is one of the few projects I feel like I am OK with doing that.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:13:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I appear to have discovered a nifty way to cause Moira to zephyr me
when it processes an incremental. O:-)

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:13:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 387faed x86 setup: correct the base in the GDT_ENTRY() macro <nelhage>

Uh-oh.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:13:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Arlington. The destination of this train is: Heath Street/VA Medical Center. <stum>

isn't that going to be very noisy?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:14:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Well, "to cause an incremental whose result is to send a zephyr
instead of doing anything else"

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:14:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(i.e, not a way to cause moira to zephyr me when it processes
_any_ incremental.)

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:15:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

MOIRA / incremental / sms  2011-09-19 23:03
    MOIRA incremental on MOIRA7.MIT.EDU: Couldn't add system:debathena-dev to system:geofft-test: Unknown code PT 7
MOIRA / incremental / sms  2011-09-19 23:03
    MOIRA incremental on MOIRA7.MIT.EDU: Couldn't remove system:debathena-dev from system:geofft-test: Unknown code PT
7

Class: geofft Instance: else.misread.time-to-go-to-sleep
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:25:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

How To Talk Like A Piñata

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:26:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How does that work?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:28:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Yo dawg, we heard you liked pts groups, so we blanched foo -a
KERBEROS:system:bar so you could add system:bar to system:foo while
you Unknown code PT 7

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:29:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Learning to write ideograms builds character.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:29:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... KERBEROS:system:bar is a kerberos principal?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:29:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, but blanche htaccess.mit.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:30:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(And then either stop asking questions or pts mem mit, whichever you
prefer.)

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:32:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I could swear that used to be hidden.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:32:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:42:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Geoffrey, why are there two entries for you?

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:42:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

hrm?

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:43:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

If I go to submit an eRFP for "geoffrey thomas", there are two choices
that come up, both "geofft".

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:43:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:44:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

What's the distinction?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:44:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Suprise Major! <ezyang>

I read personal classes when I'm being distracted on zephyr. I don't when
I'm not. Works well for me.

Class: geofft Instance: sap.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:44:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

eRFP
erfc

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:45:03 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

FIIK.
Probably one is like, undergrad-you and the other grad-you or
something dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:46:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

That's less dumb than the cases I'd worry about, namely Next House-me and
where-i-actually-live-me, direct-deposit-me and mail-me-a-check-me,
before-my-id-expired-me and after-i-renewed-it-me, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:46:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Square Chain Thru <kchen>

hmm, I could believe that, especially if Geoff is on both hourly and
monthly payroll.

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:47:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Oh, huh. That's definitely true, there's watchmaker-me and TA-me

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:47:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(But both are grad students.)

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:47:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stretch Wheel The Sea <kchen>

(I don't know how things have changed, but the hourly and monthly
systems are separate.  One year, I got 3 W-2s from MIT -- one for my
hourly job (IS&T), one for my monthly job (RA/TA), and one for my
Lincoln job.)

Class: geofft Instance: sap
Time: Mon Sep 19 23:47:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Promenade Home <kchen>

s/are/at least used to be/

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Tue Sep 20 00:54:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

So...you do realize this gives you the rope to do the equivalent of -i
dns for the incrementals, right?

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Tue Sep 20 00:55:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or rather, have a notice that the incrementals have caught up to a
certain point in time, which would actually be moderately useful to
have scheduled somewhat regularly

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 10:47:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Starnine is still full of mail, right?  That makes it ideal for
Exchange 2010 testing.

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 10:48:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:42:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

exactly!

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:42:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

that was my original point

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:43:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

yes, very much so

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:42:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Would you be sad if it lost all its mail?

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:55:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

not really. i could attempt to make a backup, but i don't really go
"hm, i feel like reading this flamewar on r-h-t from last may" that
often.

Class: geofft Instance: starnine
Time: Tue Sep 20 11:56:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

and besides, the purpose of the account is "athena consulting tests
exchange" not "geofft reads dorm lists" so i'd feel bad objecting

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:08:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

careerbridge: helps you get a job
careersolitaire: helps you become self employed

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:11:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

so, uh, how do i get to newton, ma?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:11:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 739fc34 [AF_KEY]: Set family for state selector. <nelhage>

"Car"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:10:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Mostly, yeah.  There are some answers that involve the T

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:10:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Where in Newton?"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:12:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I think the riverside branch of the green line goes there, but
yea. car

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:12:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

options that sound appealing at the moment include
- commuter rail, and taxi from the closest point
options that don't so much are
- drive solo for the first time in my life in boston for the first
time in my life

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:12:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: cdac1ba [PATCH] 2.5.18 QUEUE_EMPTY and the unpleasant friends. <nelhage>

Yeah, depending on where, you might be able to pull shenaningans with
the T, but it'll probably be moderately stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:12:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Google maps suggests "bus"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:15 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

There is lots of green line, bus, and commuter rail, but
newton is also big.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d2594d0 drivers/net/wireless/iwlwifi/iwl-3945.c: fix printk warning <nelhage>

Yeah, bus is also an option for some places, but see also "moderately
stupid"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

also i don't know if i have insurance.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Does the green line still have exit fare at the stations in Newton?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d62c3c1 Aic79xx Driver Update  o Change handling of the Rev. A packetized lun output bug    to be more efficient by having the sequencer copy the    single byte of valid lun data into the long lun field. <nelhage>

No

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:13:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2c29661e Blackfin/ipipe: update version stamp <nelhage>

Really, "ask google maps just how dumb the MBTA options are, decide
accordingly"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:08 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Or give zephyr an address.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b8c3b55 ppc64: workaround for gcc 3.1, otherwise we busy loop in pte_chain_lock() <nelhage>

In which case we'll just ask google maps for you, but yeah :)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I remember that from when I drove in years ago and ditched the car in
the burbs. Admittedly, I also remember being amazed that the station
still used tokens or cash, but you guys are ahead of us now on that
score, so I'll hush up.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:46 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

I've ridden the T from Alewife to Newton Centre, and that
was just fine, if a bit long.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:15:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Dixie Sashay <kchen>

The T didn't have exit fares on the green line -- it was free outbound
(if you started above ground) and $3.00 or so inbound.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The green line hasn't had exit fares in forever, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:15:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

hm. i'm fine grabbbing a git repo and tooling.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:16:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As Couples Follow Thru <kchen>

($3.00 or so from some places, anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:14:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What the green line did have was chits/transfers if you got on in
Riverside and got off in Newton

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:16:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the more you see, the less you know.  listen, find out as you go. <jessiehl>

If the relevant part of Newton is sufficiently close to Waltham, you
can potentially take the commuter rail from Porter Square, get off in
Waltham, and walk.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:15:17 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"WAYTTG?"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:16:35 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Make it work! <paigep>

"taxi"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:15:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

er, WAYRTTG?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:17:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

200ish needham st

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:17:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Walk from Newton Highlands on the D line.  Or cab.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:18:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

(i want to avoid public zephyr backsolving for where i'm
interviewing, ask me in personals if you care)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:18:28 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "Your mom is kind of like an infinite loop.  She just keeps going and going." - mpp <jessiehl>

== jdreed

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:18:51 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

THat's a mile from the Newton Highlands station, which is
what I would do assuming no rain.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:19:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "I think Florida should split like Virginia did and form the states of Florida and South Michiyork." - wtl <jessiehl>

Or take a 71 bus into Watertown and a 52 or 59 from there into Newton.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:18:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Actually, you can hop on the 59 at Newton Highlands

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:19:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Presumably you don't have a Zipcar membership?  (why not?)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:20:17 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Or is it no longer stupidly cheap for MIT students?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:22:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think geofft applied for one...

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:22:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i do have a zipcar membership.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:22:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Checkpoint Bounce The Belles By Single Wheel <kchen>

Huh, it's apparently only $15 now, down from $25 (for students).

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:22:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i just don't trust myself not to die.

Class: geofft Instance: starnine.d
Time: Tue Sep 20 12:30:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Should you mysteriously want a copy of r-h-t, senior-house, or
ec-discuss, let me know...

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:05:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

No, not TripAdvisor, I'm amused that three people have guessed that

Class: geofft Instance: sausage
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:06:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Hm, that was the "Power Plus Burner", was that not. No wonder the
sasuage got completely blackened

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:08:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Triple Scoot <kchen>

That was my offhand guesses too, although I didn't actually look up
its address to realize how close it was.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:08:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Grand 1/4 Thru <kchen>

(I also hadn't made the connection to it being an interview until you
said so.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:17:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

i,i "Proficient in HTML, including XSS, CSRF, and clickjacking"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:17:58 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: me <eichin>

we actually ask people, if they say they know
javascript and web app development, if they can explain XSS :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Sep 20 13:18:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Suprise Major! <ezyang>

uuuuuu

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:46:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I wonder how productive it would be for me to block off a few hours
on, say, each Sunday to cook several things for me to eat for the
rest of the week, put them in Tupperwares, and put them in the fridge
(and carry most of them to campus on Monday morning)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:47:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

Very. This does good things for me.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Do you have microwavable tupperware?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Do you actually do a week at a time?

There are economies of scale in making a dozen meals at once, but it
also has the potential to be dumb

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

I usually try for half a week.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, but I don't have time on Tuesday or Wednesday to flip out and
make food.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

Mostly, "cook a reasonable amount of food and have leftovers"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:48:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

Yeah, that's tough.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

I also can't stand eating the same thing five days straight...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I recommend make foods that freeze well, so that you can have variety in
your premade food a few weeks out.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds not totally unlike my approach to dinner when I'm cooking
for myself.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I fail at "reasonable amount". Right now I have a bunch of pasta and
nothing else in a tupperware, and decided there's no point in bringing
that to campus since I don't have meats on campus...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

lizdenys: Hmmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

Proportions ar every important.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:49:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Well, I tend to make a couple day's food each night, and at one
point was doing that all three days of the weekend or so.)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:50:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"French onion soup, ratatouille both freeze well."

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:50:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

ezyang: There is an economy argument in terms of context switching to
making three or four different things at once instead of three or
four times in the week.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:50:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

lizdenys: Yeah, I don't know how to manage frozen leftovers.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:50:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

And fridgerator doesn't manage sufficiently long.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:50:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Yeah. It really depends on what type of food you make.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 20 14:52:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

-> right, I have class or something

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:18:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

hm, how do i turn down the volume on my music?

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:19:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...why is this -i connectbot?

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:19:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Because connectbot steals the volume keys to mean zoom in/out.

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:19:27 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The likelihood of you dying violently within the next five minutes is eighty-seven point six one percent. <asedeno>

My guess is that because the volume rocker changes font size in
connectbot.

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:19:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

because connectbot uses the volume control to mean "change font size"
:)

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:18:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"plug in headphones"

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:20:07 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The likelihood of you dying violently within the next five minutes is eighty-seven point six one percent. <asedeno>

answer: get out of connectbot for a moment, change volume, resume
connectbot.

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:20:23 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Marie Curie invented the theory of radioactivity, the treatment of radioactivity, and dying of radioactivity. <asedeno>

(Or, you know, what jdreed said.)

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:25:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

hm. kerberos authenticators are randomized, right?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:34:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

'randomized' how?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:36:17 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

They are encrypted, which means they contain a random confounder.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:36:29 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The unencrypted contents contain a timestamp, but are not otherwise
randomized.

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:40:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Can you distinguish "I sent this message once at this timestamp" from
"I sent this message twice at this timestamp" (by the existence of two
authenticators)?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:41:44 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There's a confusing factor here which is that Zephyr, at least in v4,
tried to use the same authenticator for five minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: fonts.ttants
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:44:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Didot
Idiot

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Sep 20 15:44:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

My system wants to install jQuery because scala-doc depends on it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:08:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Right, I should get a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: eim
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:29:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I can't tell if this guy is... a Mormon missionary or something? He's
well-dressed, but it could just be that these are two friends having
an interesting conversation. But they're talking about interesting
issues of philosophy

Class: geofft Instance: eim
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:31:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

They're talking about selfishness or selflessness or something.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:39:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Huh, they're supporting OpenSSH sandboxing?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:45:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

I wonder how dumb "office hours this week only 10pm-midnight" is, just
as a way to avoid scheduling things for tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:47:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have a lab due this week?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:47:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

Part 1 of lab 2. Which is sufficiently uninteresting that Nickolai
suggested that cancelling office hours would be fine.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Sep 20 16:48:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay# <geofft>

"But out of rational self-interest I want my office hours _next_ week
not to suck, also my inbox"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 20 17:57:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

New zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 20 18:01:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

it's really odd to see events i heard about from lwn advertised on
infinite display.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 20 19:39:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Talked to this guy after a tech talk about virtualization and security
and trusting trust. His coworkers rolled their eyes at us

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 20 19:40:34 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

That seems to be a fairly common attitude toward security these days,
no?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 20 19:41:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I think it was more of a common attitude towards people geeking out.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 20 19:41:47 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Ahh, gotcha.

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Tue Sep 20 20:01:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

sipb-toiletry-group

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Sep 21 02:48:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

My head hurts _so much_.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Sep 21 02:49:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

:-( What from?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Sep 21 02:50:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"everything". Proofs are... functions... of type... the property that
they prove?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Sep 21 02:50:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Suprise Minor! <ezyang>

"Welcome to the other side of the Curry-Howard correspondence."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Sep 21 02:51:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

types are propositions, programs are proofs

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 21 04:18:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 21 04:19:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:06:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

On shell scripting in tcsh: "It's like 'Purgatory on Earth? Sign me
up!' shell edition."

Class: geofft Instance: gsl
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:53:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Anyone want to do GSL?

Class: geofft Instance: gsl
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:55:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(CSAIL funds making food for everyone in GSL each Friday. One Friday
out of the year your team of 3+ makes food for everyone; every other
Friday you eat it.)

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:58:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

doxp: troll rms about GPLv3

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:57:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't there a 'y'?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:59:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"doxp" is a Lisp-style predicate. (i.e., "(y/n)")

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:58:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I know that, I took 6.001.  I meant "Do you _Really_ not have anything
else to do?"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 12:59:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

As in, "Surely it's not a y/n, and you could, like, these, or flip out
and convert debathena to debhelper 7 or something?"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Sep 21 13:09:52 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

My (very few) conversations with rms haven't been very satisfying.
(Productive, though; I think one of them got DESTDIR support into
autotools.)

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Wed Sep 21 13:59:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

What the heck. My amazon.co.uk wish lists are separate from my
amazon.com wish lists???

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:00:47 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... is there a reason to use .co.uk over .com?

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:02:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Someone sent me a link to .co.uk, I clicked "add to wish list", and
now I have a brand new wish list in England.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:04:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, .co.uk sells things you can't buy from .com, so there's that

Class: geofft Instance: amazon
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:04:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And unlike .co.jp, will actually ship to non-UK addresses

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:28:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Can I see mail that goes to icp-help? (Do I want to?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:27:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:27:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

MIT::ICP

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:27:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(That's an RT queue, not a CPAN module)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:29:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Ah, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 21 14:39:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

okay where was I

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Sep 21 17:52:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

blaawawgwggh

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Sep 21 17:53:08 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

waaaqghlbahaahaaql?

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Sep 21 18:08:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

wgahnaglfhtagn!

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Sep 21 18:18:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

okay I think I'm going to go hide in a corner and work on my pset now.

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Sep 21 18:22:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

WAR_FLARGL!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 21 19:37:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

-> ew networking -> tooling -> office hours

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 21 22:08:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, that's not wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 21 22:08:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:01:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:29:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

woooo I have clean clothes I don't have to do laundry

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:29:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Me too? Is this not normally the case for you?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:30:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I thought I needed to do laundry tonight but I'd forgotten about a
dresser.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:30:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Sep 22 01:30:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Anyway, on the list of "poor life decisions" is scheduling office
hours until midnight and letting students keep you until 1 when you
have an interview at 9:30

Class: geofft Instance: xdg@l.fd.o
Time: Thu Sep 22 08:06:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

you've never used a networked homedir, have you. stop writing specs
for them.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:28:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"I plan to give an introduction to Robert's Rules of Order, which is
the official rules of Senate to get everyone familiar with them so
that way we can pass the budget in a constitutional manner, which is
always a good thing."

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:43:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"So, for someone of your background, why aren't you getting a Ph.D.?"

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:43:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Not really how I expected to start an interview.

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:41:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... really?

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:43:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

"Heh."

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:44:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: NYBSTER (n.) Sort of person who takes the lift to travel one floor. <ahailes>

what does "of your background" mean in this case?

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:46:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I think he was just looking at my resume and things I'm interested in
and that I went to MIT

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:51:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Excellent illustration, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:55:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

bah how do you use this thing

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:57:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5d1e323 tty_io: fasync BKL pushdown <nelhage>

Just hold down control, alt, and super and mash keys.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:57:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"you start typing"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:57:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I tried that and then it wanted me to prove that is it because
your mother that x + y = y + x.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:58:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(Apparently there's no useful Vim support for Coq)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 10:57:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i M-! vim

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:19:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Are you doing the Debathena cluedump on Oct 18?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:20:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:27:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Is the community distribution of Oracle Unbreakable Linux known as
Fedoracle?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Where do I put Lisp stuff that I want to run by default? ~/.emacsrc?
~/.emacs.d/something?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:41:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

.emacs

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:44:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

If I run vi ~/.emacs, does that make me a bad person?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:51:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

~/.emacs.d/init.el or ~/.emacs

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 11:53:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3abbd33 ACPI: Set _PSD ACPI_PDC_SMP_T_SWCOORD <nelhage>

I've run vi on .emacs when it was in a fucked-up state before.
Although really 'emacs -q' would have worked just as well.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:12:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Having flailed at this problem for the last hour, I appear to have
convinced myself that, since I can't prove it, addition is probably
not commutative.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:13:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What are your axioms?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:13:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Just the Peano ones?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:13:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:14:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

So I'm pretty sure addition is commutative if addition is associative,
but I can't figure out any good reason it should be associative.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:14:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the schema of the proof is "prove that 0 commutes with every
a, and then proceed by induction"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:15:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I suspect I may have defined addition poorly.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:16:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Like, this is hard because I'm defining it as x + y = x == 0 ? y :
(x-1) + (y+1), and I should instead make the recursive case
((x-1) + y)+1?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:16:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, you absolutely want to make it recursive.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:16:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Both of those are recursive. One's just dumber

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:17:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

you want it to be the case that you can show 0+a = a; S0+a = Sa; SS0 + a =
SSa, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:19:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's a proof of this somewhere in the middle of GEB:EGB, if you
have a copy on hand, but it's based on sufficiently different rules
of inference from what you're probably using that I feel like looking
at it for inspiration probably isn't cheating.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:20:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I mean, I _think_ this is more an exercise in "can you use the
language". I'm just feeling kind of dumb at being unable to prove such
obvious facts about addition.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:20:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I did it with ((x-1) + y)+1, then tried (x-1) + (y+1) and didn’t get
anywhere.  Use the former.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:20:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You shouldn't. Natural numbers are surprisingly subtle.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:21:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I also had the hardest time last night proving that if you reverse a
list and reverse it again, you get the list back.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:21:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But ... they're *natural* -- how could they be subtle?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:21:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, look at how many pages it took Russell and Whitehead to prove
that 1 + 1 = 2.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:21:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: caba023 [PATCH] kbuild: ignore all debugging info sections in scripts/reference_discarded.pl <nelhage>

I mean, I feel like the lesson here is that formal proof systems are
a terrible way to actually do work :)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.d
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:22:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Do we have a Zephyr class for 6.892 yet?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.d
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:22:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Not that I know of. (I think ezyang and I are the only zephyrzens?)
I just subbed to -c 6.892

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:37:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

If you need hints, the Coq tutorial walks through a proof that
natural addition commutes: http://coq.inria.fr/node/10#htoc24 .
It’s not quite complete, in that it uses some of the standard
library’s properties of nat within ‘auto’, but you can get the basic
idea.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 13:39:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Most of it can be inferred automatically by ‘crush’ if you give it
the right lemmas.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 14:40:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

So, it's a lot easier to prove if you destruct both arguments.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 14:41:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I think I tried that and it got worse.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:01:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Would it be rude to ask how many interviews you've done so far?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:24:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"no, but I really don't remember"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:24:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Three today, was going to be four but one got sick.
I may be approaching this slightly wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:32:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/7GdFP.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:33:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

cute!

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:43:27 2011 Host: ET-ONE-O-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 3 223 1968203 <cesium>

ttants: Super Meta World, which I kind of want to see now.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:46:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:47:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==cesium

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 17:59:21 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

i,i http://www.cascadilla.com/arlington/bostonanagram.html

Class: geofft Instance: awesome
Time: Thu Sep 22 18:00:24 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

This is actually a whole genre, e.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/popplers/105347284/lightbox/

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 18:53:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, it's just .emacs? Why do I have a .emacs.el, then?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Sep 22 19:00:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

... I wish they would tell people when they merged their patches
(Not that this is remotely an _interesting_ patch by any means, but)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 19:01:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't know, does your .emacs or .emacs.d/init.el load it?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 19:02:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

a) No
b) Doesn't exist

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 19:25:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Looks like you're hitting this: 

;; Else deal with the Windows situation
 ((directory-files "~" nil "^\\.emacs\\(\\.elc?\\)?$")

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 22 19:26:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Good God does elisp ever need a regex literal syntax)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 23:57:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Oh huh, apparently addition _is_ commutative after all.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 23:57:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(didn't get this figured out by class, I'd given myself about ~2 hours
to do the pset which was insufficient)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 23:57:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Good to know that natural numbers act like natural numbers.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Sep 22 23:59:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

In fact.
(In fairness, the specific question was "also even numbers and odd
numbers are of different types, so your addition functions are typed
in ways that guarantee parity", which confuses the built-in
proof-by-induction technique a little.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.d
Time: Thu Sep 22 23:59:08 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"'cause addition is commutative (right) and so we've got thirteen tens,
and we take away seven and that leaves five."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.d
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:00:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hooray for new math!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:04:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

Yo, you should get over to black hole, Anders and I are having a pset
party on the second pset.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:05:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:05:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I could have stopped there, but I'm home now and I have a dumb day
tomorrow so I'd like to get to sleep soon.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:06:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

But, in any case I'm still trying to work through the first pset in
less of a hurry before starting the second

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Sep 23 00:08:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

So, 2-4 is, like, really hard. So make sure you budget time for it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep 23 09:28:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

\o/ dpkg 1.16.1

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep 23 09:29:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

.... wait when did dpkg turn into cdbs

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep 23 09:30:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

* dpkg-dev now provides some (self-documented) Makefile snippets that
  you can include in debian/rules in order to set some variables that
  are frequently useful in a such a file:
  * /usr/share/dpkg/default.mk
    This file includes all the files listed below.
  * /usr/share/dpkg/architecture.mk
    This sets all the variables that you can retrieve with
    dpkg-architecture.
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Sep 23 09:34:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

wait no multiarch? sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:33:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

... why is my phone giving ecc errors?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:45:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

at that moment, jdreed achieved enlightenment.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:44:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, I'm still confused.  You answered "yes, that's the -k option" in
response to my question about telling it to just keep going on
failure.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:45:27 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But then stated that window 1 was correctly waiting for input.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:47:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

the process that window 0 spawned, namely window 1, hasn't terminated

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:47:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

the process that window 1 spawned (debian/rules) failed

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:48:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

if you dismiss window 1, window 0 will try to build more stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:47:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Then I don't undertsand your comment about -k being what I want?  Or
are you suggesting that even though we're passing -k, we're stil
waiting for input, and thus defeating the purpose of passing -k

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Sep 23 10:49:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I guess what I want, then, is a patch to do-build, which does not
cause it to execute the "read ERROR" statement.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 23 11:22:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... your phone has ECC?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 23 11:23:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

That's what it sounds like.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 23 11:23:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

It's also regularly vibrating in a way that indicates "I killed a
process", so...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 11:35:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

-> Newton

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:36:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Back from $interview. I think it went well. Also spent an hour or two
at Whole Foods working on 6.892

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:36:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Oh right, there's a lab due tonight, isn't there. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:36:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Did you end up zipcar'ing or T'ing?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:37:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I attempted to take the commuter rail per the HR person's
recommendation (AIUI), got there late, and took the green line, which
is actually really nice

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:37:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

It's not dumbly crowded until you're in Boston itself.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Sep 23 21:38:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The B line is particularly stupid sometimes, but overall, yes, the
rest of it is reaosnable

Class: geofft Instance: languagelog.else
Time: Fri Sep 23 22:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005416.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 00:54:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

If I made these shirts happen, who would be interested?
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/shirt.png

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 00:54:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything. - Tyler Durden, Fight Club <wings>

(Still me ^_^)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 01:14:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

I definitely would.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Sat Sep 24 02:01:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

# This package has the worst Build-Depends in Debian, so it deserves some
# explanation.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:33:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Haha, I know which package that is, too

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:46:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

git moira clone sipb-list-of-lists

Class: geofft Instance: today
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:49:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

[ ] deal with SIPB lists stuff
[ ] head to SIPB and help with scripts
[ ] figure out hackathon projects
[ ] 6.892 pset
[ ] 6.858 lab 3

Class: geofft Instance: today
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:49:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Laundry might be good too, hm

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:58:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

What is preventing AFS from automatically attempting to aklog you in
to the cell you're trying to access when you get EACCES? I can think
of
  1. we don't actually want it to do that
  2. it's hard to do that from kernelspace

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 12:58:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

... hm, I should write an LD_PRELOAD to catch errors from open(), fork
and exec aklog `fs whichcell $file`, and retry the open

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 13:04:30 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is this how a /mit/geofft/sketchy is formed?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 13:05:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Sat Sep 24 13:11:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Maybe it would be more productive for me to write lastupd incremental
edition.

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Sat Sep 24 13:11:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"but that sounds like effort"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:13:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm all for dissing emacs, but I'm not sure I could in good faith call
myself a course vi-er.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:14:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

You don't have to call yourself a course vi-er, you just have to think
it's better than course emacs

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:17:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: today
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Hm, I appear to have prospectivized LIST:adehnert-sipb. Oops

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:39:54 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>          1. we don't actually want it to do that

why not?

>          2. it's hard to do that from kernelspace

in the pag world it's harder; in the non-pag world i could do it
easily, the same way i do cross-volume drag in finder

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:53:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Er, wouldn't you still need to get to the credentials cache?  I would
have thought doing that in the kernel would be highly obnoxious and
fragile.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 14:59:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I mean, it's certainly _possible_ to call sys_fork() and
sys_execve("aklog") in the kernel. Whether it's a good idea, or
"highly obnoxious and fragile", I think is debatable

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:02:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Isn't this *exactly* what the upcall mechanism is for?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:02:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(on Linux, anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:03:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

What context does it run in? I'd imagine that it runs in the context
of init, not of the invoking process...?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:03:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It gets passed a keyring, which it can do whatever with.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:03:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(Like, isn't its major use calling modprobe and hotplug and stuff,
that need to be privileged and independent of the invoking process?)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:04:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Keyrings aren't interesting. The userspace context is. You need to
read the right KRB5CCNAME, you need to be running as the uid that has
access to read it, you need to be in the right pid namespace and mount
namespace, ...

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:04:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, the KRB5CCNAME thing is still a problem, it's why rpc.gssd and
cifs.upcall are so gross. Never mind :/

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:05:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Like, if you put your ccache in AFS, that needs to be able to work,
and you need to be in the PAG to read your ccache so you can add the
ticket to your PAG :-)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:06:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I guess you could also consider reimplementing aklog in kernelspace,
but the if (sys_fork()) sys_execve("aklog") solution seems... actually
cleaner.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:06:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(as I'm sure you're aware, they work by groveling through /tmp
looking for things that are owned by the calling uid and look like
they might be credential caches)

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:06:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Okay, fine, I guess you did deal like ~20 minutes after I sighed.
Thanks

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:06:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I wasn't actually particularly aware, but that sounds believable.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:08:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

kula and I were talking about writing a 'cifslog' that would do
something like what aklog does for cifs to pre-populate the keyring
so that it doesn't have to go credentials hunting, but we never
actually got around to it.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:11:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

... actually, never mind, I take back my whining. Yay cron

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:12:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Does Kerberized 9P exist?

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:12:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Isn't the 9 authentication mechanism sorta kerberos-like, but not
actually close enough to kerberos to be useful?

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:16:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e8223ea [PATCH] tmscsim: remove remaining INQUIRY sniffing <nelhage>

I find it hilarious that the native KVM tool exports host filesystems
to the guest via ... 9P-over-virtio

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:18:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:19:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

KVM does it too. and yes, it is totally hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Oh, you said native? Yeah, this is built-in to the normal KVM tool.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:20:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

On the subject, I was trying to think to myself last night if I could
run debian-installer and point it at the 9p-over-virtio device as an
install target

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:21:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I guess that's a special case of "can I run debian-installer and tell
it to install itself to NFS".

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:21:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e625073 [PATCH] M68k asm/percpu.h <nelhage>

Oh, huh, I never knew that qemu-kvm did this, just that kvmtool does.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:22:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

qemu-kvm's man page is chronically out of date

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:23:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Seriously.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:23:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think virt-manager's UI is actually better documentation for
qemu-kvm than qemu-kvm's man page at this point.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:23:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

or virt-install's manpage, perhaps.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:23:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:23:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9ed8855 PCI: use dev_printk in x86 quirk messages <nelhage>

Honestly, these days I just read the qemu-kvm source.

Class: geofft Instance: afs.prnf.d
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:24:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 35c35d1 clocksource: spelling error in watchdog code <nelhage>

But, uh, I may have spent more time than was healthy reading it for
other reasons this summer :)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:35:35 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Every so often one of the Linux NFS people asks me if rpc.gssd should
be doing something better than that I get to look at him awkwardly and
say no.  I may have a slightly better answer next time but not a great
one.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:35:51 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

s/than that/than that and/

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:36:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Why isn't there a version of kinit that stores your credentials in the
keyring instead of a file?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:36:33 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Oh, there's a keyring cache type.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:36:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is there now.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:37:19 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

rpc.gssd should at least be groveling through the environ
of the process in question :-/

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:37:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Isn't reading the environ horribly flaky and assuming of libc in
certain ways?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:38:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

It is sort of assuming that the process didn't store junk
there, but it's easy enough to do it carefully.*

* May not be easy.  No warranty express or implied.  Burn before using.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:41:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I wonder if anyone's done an "I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)" / "A Thousand Miles"
mashup...

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Sep 24 15:51:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh, there *is* a keyring ccache type and it does seem to work. I
wonder why this isn't the default on Linux yet.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Sep 24 16:04:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Really, Popen.communicate() doesn't close the child's stdin??

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Sep 24 16:15:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Oh, no, it does, it's just that communicate is dumb if you don't do
stdin=PIPE

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc.q
Time: Sat Sep 24 17:27:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"I can't decide if you're still a frosh. I don't think you are. You
had bigger hair when you were a frosh."

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 24 17:53:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Yay lapentab is playing bad cop!

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Sat Sep 24 17:55:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You're going to LOVE ME. <lapentab>

Like a boss.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:09:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"Quick! Open a prediction market on geofft's shower times!"
"Can I pay in bitcoins?"

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:09:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

STOP! SHOWERTIME!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:16:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Oops, I think I scared Cathy.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:16:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "That you are both children of the sky does not make you siblings." - ismith <pbaranay>

Bad Geoff. No shower.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:16:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I showed her a picture of George W. Bush eating a kitten.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 19:20:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

It was ETOOCUUUUUUUUUUUUTE

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Sep 24 20:12:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

scripts user piazza!

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever.misread
Time: Sat Sep 24 20:13:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

scripts used piazza! It's not very effective...

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Sep 24 20:13:58 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Sep 24 21:25:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

...I saw that zsig in passing, somewhere, but ... I thought it was one
of those dynamic zsigs because you usually don't quote people, I
thought. So... why is this your new zsig?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Sep 24 21:27:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

*shrug* I do "dynamic zsigs" where I pick something that amuses me for
like a week at a time

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Sep 24 21:34:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

It's a little silly that our three flagship projects have three
different build systems (the "da" suite for Debathena, the
Invirtibuilder for XVM, and some planned work on Koji for scripts)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Sep 24 21:34:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

And that our fourth flagship project, Linerva, has something that is
almost but not entirely unlike the Debathena build system (it uses the
same build _server_)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Sep 24 21:35:49 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

packagefab exists. It's just not ready.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:20:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I have a _finboard meeting_ tomorrow?? Of all things...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:20:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

FML

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:20:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... on Sunday?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Well, "during the hackathon" is more what I cared about.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

punt

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

That's... moderately difficult

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What time, specifically.  I'll be there

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Starting at 4. It could take forever

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:21:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'll be there until ~6:10 or so

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:22:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(and could return around 6:40)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep 24 22:24:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Sure. It's just that 4pm is kind of the point the hackathon gets
interesting...

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:03:22 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Starking) Okay, I did some research on Linux kernel keyrings.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:05:04 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

krb5 could conceivably make KEYRING:something the library default on
Linux systems if the build and runtime kernel both support it.  This
would have different semantics than the per-uid FILE default, since
it would be scoped to the session keyring (which might be different
for each login session, for instance) instead of to the whole system.
And of course, if you're using pam_krb5, that will typically set
KRB5CCNAME and override the library default.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:06:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

We could fix pam_krb5, but sure.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:07:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(Also I think anything that runs pam_keyring is likely to also run
pam_krb5 on a reasonably-configured Kerberos-using system)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:08:08 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I'm not taking a position for or against doing this yet.  I'm also
thinking about whether the keyring cache type could be changed to
support a cache collection.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:08:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> scoped to the session keyring

There's a per-uid global-across-all-sessions keyring as well.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:08:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"Alternatively, pam_copy_krb5_ccache_to_keyring"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 00:09:49 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

For whatever reason, krb5's keyring cache type doesn't currently
support the per-user keyring, only process/thread/session.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:01:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The Invirtibuilder should be the thing that Debathena wants, but it
would require some additional features and some genericization

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:02:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Also, it might require overcoming the political pressure that stuck
the project on svn in the first place)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:13:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Is the Invirtibuilder secretly Gerrit?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:14:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

Is anyone currently working on Invirt?
I didn't think there was anyone to push back...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:14:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Also, I'd rather wait until source format 3.0 (git) starts to exist
before bothering to do a VCS change in the absence of some other
compelling reason

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:17:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

afarrell: Invirt is in git. Debathena is in svn

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:18:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, I don't think the Invirtibuilder is Gerrit, but it could
potentially be usefully tacked onto Gerrit

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:18:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Also also, until I figure out superrepos. (My current theory is repo,
but I'm not sure I believe it)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:18:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

right. I knew that.
I should sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:19:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Err, let me try that again.

Invirtibuilder is orthogonal to Gerrit, because Gerrit is code review
and Invertibuilder is about keeping package repositories and source
repositories in line

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:19:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And those are two distinct tasks

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:22:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Gerrit is about keeping reviewed patches and source repositories in
line.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:22:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Right, so possibly the invirtibuilder should be connected to the
backend of gerrit, but I think that either growing the core competency
of the other would make them unreasonably monolithic

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Sep 25 03:23:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(I was a weak advocate for XVM switching to gerrit as a followup to the
invirtibuilder, before I stopped caring)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 09:44:50 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Er, wouldn't you still need to get to the credentials cache?  
why would i do it in the kernel? i call out to userspace and *am you*

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 10:03:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

If you call out to userspace, you have to make sure it happens in the
right PAG...

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 10:12:01 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> If you call out to userspace

i make the process i call out to be in the right pag

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 10:12:17 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i also control the vertical.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:36:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

> i make the process i call out to be in the right pag

See "highly obnoxious and fragile" above.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:37:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

(Also, doesn't this result in a spurious SIGCHLD getting delivered?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:40:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Overslept. Have no pants left save for tuxedo pants. I guess that's
what I'm wearing today.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:42:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

how long would it take for you to show up in a tuxedo?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:44:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

http://6.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvcgrsaUvS1qzmvhdo1_400.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:48:56 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the openafs module already controls pags. making it control the pags
ot he children it calls out to is obnoxious but not more fragile than
any of the rest of it

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:52:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

But that's not the interesting part. The interesting part is that, if
the ccache itself is stored somewhere that only makes sense in the
context of the calling process (it's chrooted, it's using a
polyinstantiated filesystem, it's using FUSE, it's on a _different_
Kerberized filesystem, etc.), you need to interpret the path to the
ccache in the context of the calling process

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:52:53 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

no, i just need aklog to be run once and pass in some sort of
reference.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:53:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

How do you get the reference? Remember this is an unmodified userspace
program calling open().

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:54:03 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

that's a fine question. haven't thought too far down that path.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:54:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I guess you could in the context of that program open an fd, tell the
kernel to create a new child of init, put it in the right PAG,
consider dropping privileges to the user, pass the fd over, and have
it run aklog -fd 3?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:55:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

But I'm skeptical of
> consider dropping privileges to the user
because privileges are more complex than uid (you've got fsuids and
PAGs themselves and other authentication structures and containers
and such), and so I'm unconvinced uid suffices, and I'm unconvinced
it's safe to decide you can just run aklog as root in the right pag.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:55:53 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, i already have helper children so in the ideal, i don't have to
create any more processes. i choose one, put it in a pag and have it
do work. when i get it back, i take it out of a pag when i deal with
the result, then put it back in the pool

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:56:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

And it's safe for those helper children not to drop privileges?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:56:31 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"it depends"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:57:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Yeah, basically I'm skeptical that anything you try other than doing
a fork and exec in the kernel is likely to work reliably and
securely, and a few things you might be tempted to try would be
insecure in subtle ways and allow stealing arbitrary files under
certain conditions

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:57:37 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i'm currently solving that by doing nothing :)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:58:19 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

also, it's linux and the odds that i personally would lift a finger to
work on it these days are very low. i got burned already. i like to
pretend i learn things

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:59:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Do other OSes get this right out of the box? I was under the
impression this was an issue on, like, OS X too

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:59:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

or Solaris

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 12:59:36 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

define "this"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:00:12 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the "got burned" is licensing. solaris obviously does not get it right
:)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:00:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

"this" = I go to edit a file in the SIPB cell, it doesn't work until I
type "aklog sipb"

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:01:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

I SFTP to athena.dialup and try to fetch a file in the SIPB cell, it
doesn't work until I log out, put "aklog sipb" in my dotfiles, and log
back in and hope those were relevant dotfiles for SFTP

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:01:37 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, then define "right". that behavior is correct :)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:02:20 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(no, no openafs client platform currently does any form of auto-aklog)

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:02:51 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

and the last afs platform that did was mach. thing is, you could do it
right on macos, for the cases where an API (mach) cache is used.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:03:40 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

in that case you effectively export a cred, run aklog against a memory
ccache with it, and suck the cred back in as a token.

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:03:57 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

for file-based ccaches, it's still ugly

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:16:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: "==geofft, stupidly." -zhangc <geofft>

Geoffrey Thomas, geofft@mit.edu just joined us and is interested in
waking up and getting to campus

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 25 13:17:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Sep 25 17:22:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg@mit.edu>
To: John Galt <jgalt@mit.edu>
Cc: sipb-office@mit.edu
&c.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Sep 25 17:22:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Sep 25 17:28:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, who *is* John Galt?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:19:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

PSA: We're not done, we're not going to be done by Senate,
allocations will be out by next Monday (not tomorrow), in the
unlikely case you have an event between now and October 3 you applied
for funding for, please let us know (at finboard@) so we can present
it to Senate tomorrow.

(It sounds like we'll probably ask Senate for a bit of money in case
anyone does, but if you know you'll need money this week you should
ask)

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:54:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How are there 46 thousand lockers?

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:54:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What is wrong with you people?

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:54:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There are like ~23k users...

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:54:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:54:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

10k students, and at least as many staff, not counting weirdos like
WHOI and Lincoln

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:55:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Admittedly,
tyger:~ geofft$ qy gaus -s user geofft | grep FILESYS | wc -l
12

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 20:55:38 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you're not part of the solution...

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:00:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You're going to LOVE ME. <lapentab>

...You're part of the precipitate?

Class: geofft Instance: athena
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:02:05 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, or you're part of the atmosphere.

Class: geofft Instance: athena.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:02:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does having bits on a FILESYS mean anything?

Class: geofft Instance: athena.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:05:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It means you were responsible for creating it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:21:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Subscribed to debian-devel. We'll see how this goes

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:31:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... there's a guy named Jeffrey G. Thomas. That's confusing

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:33:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't suppose you're Geoffrey J. Thomas?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:33:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm Geoffrey G.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:46:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

| > Given I maintain my packages in git, it's quite clear that the
preferred
| > form for modification of my packages is through git and not debian
| > source packages.  That we don't have a good way of distributing
the
| > source of packages is a fault I think we should address.
| 
| I am sympathetic to the problems caused by the interactions between
quilt
| and VCS-hosted packages, but I object strongly to this attempt to
cast git
| repositories as "the preferred form for modification" of a work.
Under the
| GPL, this is tantamount to claiming that it's *illegal* to
distribute a
| tarball of the work without the git history!

Yes, I think it might well be.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:46:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:47:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6e84095 [E100] ICH5 support added <nelhage>

It's days like this that I remember why I haven't switched back to
Debian, even though Ubuntu is on the way out.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:48:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I actually really like Debian as a user, I have no complaints about
it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:49:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

How is Ubuntu on the way out?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:50:55 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

All software should be distributed as repository URLs, and
everyone should run the most up to date version that passed
their automated regression tests, automatically upgrading
all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:51:16 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Full employment for security people!  Yaaay.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:52:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, this quote makes up for the previous one:

> I hope Debian would honour the Social Contract and put the needs of the
> users ahead of software freeness concerns in that case.

Do we have a name for the DFSG equivalent of Godwin's Law?  Because
you just failed it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:53:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

I had a wanker at Sun claim that was how the world should
be, in about 2006. I asked him how CPAN supported or
undermined his position, and how his ideal world would be
different. He'd never heard of CPAN.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.d
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:16 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Debian's already agreed (in the cases of both TeX and DJBware) to take
awkward requirements about distributing a history of changes
seriously.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Are you reading debian-legal?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, debian-devel.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We're arguing about source format 3.0 (git), which is something I
actually care a lot about

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:39 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

hrmph.  Is the person espousing this position an actual DD?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:54:54 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

(Not that I wouldn't like to see 3.0 (git) in the archive)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:55:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which position?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:55:19 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

that a DVCS constitutes "the preferred form for modification"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:55:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Tollef Fog Heen, yes. ("I object strongly" and "DFSG equivalent of
Godwin's Law are both Steve Langasek)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:56:05 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

heh. vorlon ftw.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:56:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Anyway, "people wanking on a mailing list" is a dumb
reason to avoid a distribution.  People wanking in a changelog, less so.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun Sep 25 21:58:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"What does [redacted] look like again?"
"Asian girl?"
"Thank you, you've described 20% of MIT."

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Sep 25 23:23:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does Cygwin run in Wine?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Sep 25 23:23:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or vice versa?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Sep 25 23:23:16 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Cygwin runs in wine, afaik.

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Sun Sep 25 23:23:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Remix ALL the trashy pop!

Class: geofft Instance: free-food
Time: Sun Sep 25 23:46:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mary's leftovers at SIPB... we have like four unopened entrees and a
bunch of rice and stuff

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark.n-c
Time: Mon Sep 26 02:08:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, _that_. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Mon Sep 26 02:09:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Run a Kerberos and AFS cell on AWS

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Mon Sep 26 02:10:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Mon Sep 26 09:10:15 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Run a Kerberos and AFS cell on AWS

we conidered it. it's not a horrible idea.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Mon Sep 26 09:11:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

It's questionable from a security perspective.  Also
remember to set the "persistent" bit.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Mon Sep 26 09:11:41 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i guess the bits you want to use to secure it you can' have yet (and
would require one server, albeit small elsewher)

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Mon Sep 26 09:11:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

(Not that you don't know all that, but my brain is
not yet up today)

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 26 10:29:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

BBC World Service
BBC Whirled Dervish

Class: geofft Instance: else.what
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:04:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.webputty.net/

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:10:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"There's this whole culture of capability guys, they have their own
little word and use their own terminology for everything... and they
don't walk to anyone else"

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:20:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Leonid Grinberg <leonidg>

Uh....

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:21:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure when we turned into 6.828

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:22:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But as papers for spontaneous 6.828 lectures go, you could do worse
than KeyKOS.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:23:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bcedfa9 ARM: S3C64XX: Add S3C64XX support to the generic Samsung ADC driver <nelhage>

how did you turn into 828?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"you turn the 2 upside-down and squint"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

KeyKOS!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Nickolai started talking excitedly about KeyKOS and how reboots work.

We're back to talking about security-sensitive stuff now

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, the 5.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, we read those two within a couple days of each other, Ithink?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:24:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How *do* reboots work?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:25:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, was "walk" a typo, or a subtle joke by Nickolai, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:25:25 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Apparently there are a hilarious number of different ways in which one
might attempt to trigger a reboot.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:25:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Poorly, at least on x86.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:25:54 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think ... there was an article linked back when debathena was
looking at how to reboot the 790s, which discussed what windows does
and various things.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:26:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

there was a recent mjg59 blog post on the subject. one sec.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:26:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, I assumed there was an implicit "in KeyKOS" there?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:26:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

typo

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:26:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Lots of state gets stored on disk so you can reboot it and keep a lot
of state

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:27:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, right.

Class: geofft Instance: debian/changelog.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:28:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"DigiNotargate"

Class: geofft Instance: debian/changelog.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:28:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debian/changelog.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 12:29:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, DigiNotar's problem was that their gate was too open and they
let too much stuff out.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 13:13:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

oh god KeykOS. :_(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 26 14:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

interview done, -> interview

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 26 18:10:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

leaving h^2, -> gsc via red line

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding-board.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 26 18:57:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Event Location: All Asia
Event Location: Asia

Class: geofft Instance: ua-exec
Time: Mon Sep 26 19:26:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: itpq
Time: Mon Sep 26 19:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"synconv is a command line based audio format transcoder with an
rsync-like user interface."

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Sep 26 20:07:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The GSC recommends that you do not piss off Palestine."

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Sep 26 20:10:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

IS&T recommends you hold on Palestine?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 20:16:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

barnowl crashed :-(

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding.app.q
Time: Mon Sep 26 21:10:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Propogenda"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 22:53:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't like my face. Like either I shaved and it bothers me, or I
haven't and it bothers me

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 22:53:42 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Get a better lotion.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:04:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==achernya
\exists Nivea for Men

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:05:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: the secret to happiness is freedom; the secret to freedom is courage. <afarrell>

I think you mean Manivia

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:11:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

get a better razor

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:12:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There are also sahving butters, as opposed to gel, cream, or lather.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:12:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*shaving

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:13:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

shaving soap and a brush are still the most effective means, but scraping
one's face with five blades at once doesn't help.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:17:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"King of Shave" shave oil works shockingly well for me, considering
how little of it one uses per shave.

Or did before I ran out and found myself unable to find more.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:19:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Buy Somerset's. Same deal, reliable supplier (unfortunately in the UK
so there's some lead time on orders). I use it and have the same
comment.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:19:40 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fighting the evil cult of domesticity <aatharuv>

"Shave Secret" shave oil works for me. It is primable.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:20:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Shaving?  What?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:20:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I run Linux, not BSD, I can't grow a beard, sorry

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:21:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Go to CVS or Walgreens and get a VDH brush and soap for ten bucks. For
something fancier, go to H^2 and visit Colonial Drugs. Oil doesn't soften
the hairs, but a hydrated lather does.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:21:08 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: You can never OD on cynicism.  <aatharuv>

A 20 ml bottle has lasted me for a few months -- a few drops for each
shave is sufficient, though I don't shave every day.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:59:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Interviewing with people who had taken many years ago classes you
TA'd is fun

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep 26 23:59:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently 6.857 used to not touch systems at all and involved no
coding

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:00:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And the guy was like "huh, wish I could have taken that."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:01:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

What era was this?
When I took/TAed it, there was one problem per pset that was more
"hands-on".  Often this implied some coding, but not always.  Is that
what you mean by coding?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:02:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have really no idea. I would assume he's at least as old as you?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:02:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"If this is who I think it is, he's a bit older than David."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:03:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:04:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

He also didn't think Rivest was a good lecturer...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:04:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Of course, on Friday I talked with this course 6 '91 CEO who was
curious about the loss of 6.001 and so forth.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:04:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And today I talked with this Caltech guy who'd heard of Ur/Web...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:05:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Who is this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"which?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ur/web

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A guy at Liz's company, a guy at $place, and a guy at $place

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh. Ur/web is Adam Chlipala's (6.892 prof's) project, if that's what
you're asking.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:06:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

   geofft / else / AUTH: geofft  2011-09-26 23:59:46  (Geoffrey Thomas) / TYGER.MIT.EDU
       Interviewing with people who had taken many years ago classes you
       TA'd is fun
   geofft / else / AUTH: geofft  2011-09-26 23:59:56  (Geoffrey Thomas) / TYGER.MIT.EDU
       Apparently 6.857 used to not touch systems at all and involved no
       coding
   geofft / else / AUTH: geofft  2011-09-27 00:00:04  (Geoffrey Thomas) / TYGER.MIT.EDU
       And the guy was like "huh, wish I could have taken that."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:07:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:10:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Instance: urweb Time: Thu Sep  8 20:35:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

I'd kind of be interested in packaging and deploying Ur/Web on
Scripts.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:11:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

"after F15, please"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:11:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

f15, sql, hacron, all else.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:12:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i So if you get a UROP with Adam to work on Ur/Web, and Alex gets a
UROP with Nickolai to work on sql...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:14:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Right, I should get back to that. I'm only taking 3.5 classes now. I
should have lots of time. Right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:14:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and Quentin and Evan get MEnges to work on aquarium, and Mitch
becomes a grad student so he can steal the blade, and..."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:15:07 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

and you?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:15:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm TAing a class about encouraging people to break into web servers,
I should probably stay out of this for safety's sake

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:19:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:19:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Experience suggests that most webapps will have at least one easy
CSRF or XSS vulnerability in them. Large fractions will still have
one, especially if they're little-used...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:23:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Okay, Ur/Web does sound entertaining.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:24:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

Ur/Web is pretty entertaining.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:43:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gsc funboard done, -> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:44:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i'm ... worried i won't have time for anything this week after funding
boards and interviews.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:45:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

which is a problem because lab 3 needs to come into existence and i
need to apply to grad schools

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:46:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, you're applying to grad schools?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:46:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i'd like to.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i may be too hosed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:47:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

which is fine, i can deal fall '13

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:47:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

which i guess makes me enter grad school at 25, which kinda sucks but
not hugely

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 00:48:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(there is the "your 20s are valuable years, use them well" argument)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:04:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was going to say "I wish I was better at writing fiction", but I'm
not sure I've tried since, like, middle school.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:04:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

"I wish I could get better at things without working hard at them"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:04:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

== I don't think I've written fiction since 8th grade.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:05:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

It really jolted me how they just changed modes right as I
had gotten comfortable with writing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:05:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

oh wait, I think I once wrote some erotica in a letter.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:05:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

er, you probably didn't need to know that...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:05:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

-> off zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:11:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ezyang: It's more "I have no idea if I'm good at writing fiction or
not because I haven't seriously tried".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:12:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And speaking of working hard at things, I'm getting concretely better
at piano, it's kind of confusing that playing it ~daily does that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:14:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

One pleasant (possibly false) belief to have is that it is not talents
which are important, it is our natural habits. You are not so much
talented at X as you are naturally inclined to do behavior Y which
improves your skill at X.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:17:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I'll note that the negative version of this belief is unpleasant.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:19:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, I'm not really naturally inclined to play piano (I never do at
home). It's just a great thing to do when stressed and it's right
outside my bedroom door and I'm often kinda stressed right before I
sleep. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:30:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

==== on "a great thing to do when stressed".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 02:35:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I blame Liz for making me realize this...

Class: geofft Instance: wthrowe
Time: Tue Sep 27 11:36:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Desk was never a thing I really paid attention to (or worked, really)
while in the dorms. I wonder if that would have been fun

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:36:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The ASA website implementation is kind of beatiful in its horror

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:44:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What, a pile of SSI or something?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:46:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Basically

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also apparently the SSI menu bar defines one list per section of the
site. If you're on that section, CSS or something renders the list as
a navigation bar on the left; if you're not, it renders it as a
dropdown in the menu bar at the top.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:49:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It took me *three* tries to read that as not having to do with Social
Security funding. Maybe I do read too much about politics.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:51:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mm?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Sep 27 12:54:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"SSI"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:10:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Said protest must be typewritten in not smaller than 10pt font on
not more than one sheet of 8.5inX11in paper."

Wow someone from n years ago really wanted to be a lawyer when they
grew up

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:12:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do we formalize the concept of faculty advisor anywhere other than
"text field in the database"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:12:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<Seven times down, eight times up." Men like Narutomi Hyogo have been ronin seven times. (from @i(Hagakure))> <xavid>

Or a grade-school english teacher.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:13:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Grade-school English teacher wannabes don't use "said" as a
demonstrative.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:13:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Any bets on whether it's Jason?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:14:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Or someone delivered a protest on a slice of rotting meat
or something.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:14:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I think a briefly presented bare buttocks is more likely.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:17:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It is the highest responsibility of the Executive Board of the
Association of Student Activities to act in the best interest of the
MIT Community and of the Student Activities which it represents. No
other interest or responsibility could possibly supersede it."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:17:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really now? In the event that the best use of the fourth floor of the
student center is to protect minorities from genocide when Cambridge
gets invaded by neo-Nazis, I'm pretty sure we should vote in favor of
that

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:18:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b046a04 IB/mthca: Fix default static rate returned for Tavor in AV <nelhage>

Haven't I played that guild game?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:18:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Godwin says to find a better example

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:18:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I said neo-Nazis, not Nazis

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:19:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I vote it still counts

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:19:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4320b10 [PATCH] uml: eliminate unhandled SIGPROF on halt <nelhage>

==broder

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:19:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(The point is that it's a reductio ad absurdum argument)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:20:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, yes, but the second sentence is a bit over the top and
invites being reduced ad absurdum

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:20:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

You know, with only two stairways, It occurs to me that w20 would
actually be reasonable for that.

well, until they just burned it down.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:22:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Though, there is also the problem of the fact that we don't have a supply
of firearms and ammunition.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:23:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "I'm only good at math that pertains to the deepest of human depravity." - ctsims <jessiehl>

Sure we do, at the pistol range.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:23:53 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

And lead!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Does MIT have a procedure for distributing firearms to the students in
the event of invasion? My conversations with dbarber would indicate
not.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: STORMAGEDDON, DARK LORD OF ALL! <wings>

It's probably unwise to distribute weapons to people who are not
educated in using them.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

========

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

==

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:41 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "Stop defending yourself and let me put words in your mouth!" - bpepper <jessiehl>

==

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:25:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"You'll put your eye out, kid"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:26:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

also, ttants: 
- having taken the intro pistol class
- being able to act sensibly under fire

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:26:31 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Really, it depends on the emergency.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 13:27:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

"""
To place any dependence on Militia, is, assuredly resting upon a
broken staff. Men just dragged from the tender scenes of domestick
life; unaccustomed to the din of Arms; totally unacquainted with every
kind of military skill, which being followed by a want of confidence
in themselves, when opposed to Troops regularly train'd, disciplined,
and appointed, superior in knowledge and superior in Arms, makes them
timid, and ready to fly from their own shadows.
"""  -- George Washington, letter to the Continental Congress,
September 24, 1776

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892 Opcode: itsthisforthat
Time: Tue Sep 27 14:55:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, what does your language do?
So, basically, it's like XPATH for COMPUTER-GENERATED PROOFS!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 27 14:55:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

What.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 27 14:56:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

what.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Sep 27 14:57:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno, using square brackets and magic keywords to locate parts of
syntax trees and do things to them just reminded me of XPath (or XSLT)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:06:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,015.htm

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:43:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: Martin Segado <msegado@MIT.EDU>
To: "xprod-all@mit.edu" <xprod-all@mit.edu>
Subject: How to perc (web developer edition)

Dom - css - php! - css
Dom - css - php! - css
Ssh...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:44:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:50:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Reviewed.com, a division of USA TODAY is leading a revolution of how
people understand, shop for, and use the latest technology and
consumer electronics internationally. We're comprised of
publications including TelevisionInfo.com, CamcorderInfo.com,
DigitalCameraInfo.com, PrinterInfo.com, WirelessInfo.com,
MediaPlayerInfo.com and HeadphoneInfo.com. We also publish
internationally with CamcorderInfo.jp,CamcorderInfo.de,
DigitalCameraInfo.de and CamcorderInfo.co.uk.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:52:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

those sound /so/ much like ad- and possibly malware-littered parked
domains

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Sep 27 15:55:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> afk interview -> ASA GBM, Morss

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 17:30:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

[starking] He graduated undergrad in '99.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep 27 17:30:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

actually [mega-starking]

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:14:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay, we have been empowered!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:14:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Go us!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:14:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

time to go crazy with your newfound power

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:15:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Intriguingly, empowering us allows us to do *less* of what we wanted
than the original plan did. Weird how that works.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:22:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo, we are 40% bigger!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:22:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Kendra K Beckler <kkb>

Sweet.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 18:30:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jhawk vs. laflynn FIGHT

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:05:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:30:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Leah trying to teach jhawk after the GBM about being respectful, or
something? I wasn't really paying attention, it didn't sound like
something I wanted to pay attention to. :)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:30:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass In Twice <kchen>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: cot/caught
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:52:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I just attempted to ssh to alliver.mit.edu. What

Class: geofft Instance: cot/caught
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:52:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Quick, get the alias!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:53:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Alex, how does empowrering grant you less power than originally posessed?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 19:57:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Where did I say anything about "originally possessed"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 20:43:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Alex: You said "than the original plan." *confused*

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:37:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there a reason libjingle isn't obviously packaged in Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:39:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Isn't it rolled into telepathy-gabble?

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:40:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:41:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's in Lenny and Sid but not Squeeze or Wheezy?

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:42:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"libjingle was created at about the same time as the Jingle XMPP
extension (XEP-0166). The libjingle team created their own protocol to
handle session negotiation, and later worked with the XMPP Standards
Foundation to standardize Jingle; thus, although the libjingle
protocol and Jingle are very similar, they are not the same, and are
not interoperable."

kwality

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:42:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:42:52 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:44:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Someone needs to stop the Telepathy devs before they name another
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:44:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Wocky"? Really?

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:44:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's actually a remarkably descriptive name.

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:45:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ host jabber
jabber.mit.edu has address 18.9.21.14
tyger:~ geofft$ host wocky
wocky.mit.edu has address 18.9.21.13

Class: geofft Instance: libjingle.d
Time: Tue Sep 27 22:45:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh for the love of

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Sep 27 23:14:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes, the plan Rachel originally proposed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 28 10:32:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

fell asleep on the couch _again_

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Sep 28 11:35:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Make me say "I do"
Before I come undone
Save me from this bachelor I've become
Bring me a wife

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Sep 28 11:38:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Près des remparts de Séville
Chez mon ami Lillas Pastia
J'irai manger la quesadilla
Et boire du Manzanilla

Class: geofft Instance: monitors
Time: Wed Sep 28 12:58:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want to be using Metacity but switch automatically to XMonad when I
plug in a second monitor...

Class: geofft Instance: monitors
Time: Wed Sep 28 12:58:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's nice to want things?

Class: geofft Instance: monitors
Time: Wed Sep 28 12:58:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You can probably do horrible things with dbus

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Sep 28 13:23:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have come to the conclusion that everything Zephyr has to say about
either industry or academia is misguided and wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Sep 28 13:26:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<And in having retainers it will not do to nourish oneself alone. (from @i(Hagakure))> <xavid>

Does that statement include itself?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Sep 28 13:28:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A healthy agnosticism compels me to say yes

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:20:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. SHUT. UP. LEAVE. ME. ALONE. I HAVE WORK TO DO
2. I guess I'll be in California for a weekend at some point soon?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:21:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

sorry :( (is it us?)

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:22:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No. I'm only mostly annoyed because one person called me while I was
talking to Nickolai to give me an ~offer, and then I had some
questions and he said he'd find the answers _and did within ten
minutes_, and then as soon as I finished with that someone else
called to schedule an interview

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:23:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

nod. well, I'm still sorry, but at least it's not indirectly my fault

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:23:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm mostly _really_ annoyed because I haven't had time to focus on
anything other than interviews (and showing up somewhat dazed to
classes and student groups) for the last... at least a week at this
point

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:23:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's...basically just how the process works

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:23:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

At least based on my experience

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:24:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm supposed to be applying to grad schools, you asses, you keep
telling me this when you interview, how am I supposed to do this if I
don't forsee myself having the cycles to work on my thesis until IAP?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:25:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, frustration vented, thank you -c geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:26:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Let me see if I still have my calendar entries from when I was
interviewing...

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:27:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could deal better with my calendar being dumb, because I knew in
advance, all right I'm going to sit down at my desk for ten seconds
and do three phone screens today and then it'll be time to go to the
SIPB meeting. I'm mostly just annoyed at people calling out of the
blue

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:28:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The recruiter that called me twice has been particularly bad at this,
but at least he's dayshifting me. I ... honestly cannot remember the
beginning of my conversation with him Monday at 8:45 AM, I just
remember crawling out of bed while on the phone and looking at my
clock and being shocked at what time it was.)

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:29:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'm also vaguely shocked that a third-party recruiter that
cold-called me found a place that I have nonzero chance of wanting to
work at... it'd be easier if I could tell him to go away)

Class: geofft Instance: else.ahailes
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:41:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i "Special Liaison to the Phones"

Class: geofft Instance: else.ahailes
Time: Wed Sep 28 14:41:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:01:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, uh, I need to get some experience driving in Boston

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:01:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyone want to ride with me in a ZipCar for a while and yell at me
when I'm being stupid?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:01:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I promise not to kill you intentionally

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:01:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(at some point when the roads are vaguely quiet)

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:02:20 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Do you really want to be driving in Boston?  I only found it faster
when there was a hurricane and the T closed

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:02:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

where are you driving to?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:02:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I need to get to Westford, specifically, and I'm under the impression
that public transit thereto effectively doesn't exist

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:03:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But it involves driving _in_ Boston far enough to get out of the city

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:03:18 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Where has yuor driving experience been?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:03:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

what's your route?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:03:50 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

You could T to alewife, pick up a car at alewife, and have
highways all the way there.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:03:59 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

You should be able to take 2/3 to get there

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

at least in my experience, driving in Boston is about knowing where
you need to go so that you can plan in advance

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:02 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

==tibbetts

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

because Boston roads are retarded

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. If there's a ZipCar there (and there almost certainly is), I might
feel comfortable doing that

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do feel really comfortable driving on highways back home

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:42 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Yeah, there are several zipcars there.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:04:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

There are also zipcars in Arlington on the 77 bus line
which are comparably convenient to Rt. 2

Class: geofft Instance: comp.os.linux.advocacy.sigq
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:43:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From a couple of days ago:
"Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky
 kernel 2.6.31.5, up 121 days"

Class: geofft Instance: comp.os.linux.advocacy.sigq
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:44:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm trying to decide whether I'm more curious why you're still running
Fedora 8, why you're still running Fedora 8 and nonetheless being a
Linux fanboy, what a "šky" is, and why if you're running kernel 2.6.31
you can only manage an uptime of 121 days

Class: geofft Instance: comp.os.linux.advocacy.sigq
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:45:35 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

šky is probably the hostname.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:46:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Linux, the D&D scenario

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:46:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:55:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't type "6.828" any more, it comes out "6.858", or if I backspace
and try again, "6.825"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:56:19 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why 825?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Sep 28 15:56:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because I keep trying to type a 5 somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:04:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dan Boneh's lab calling an attack on ASLR "derandomization" is ...
cute but misleading, or something

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:07:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/tmp/amazon-wat.png

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:07:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Awesome, some CSS didn't full load!

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:07:58 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Kindle... FIRE!! *pewpewpew* <paigep>

every once in a while the spriting goes mad

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:08:36 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Dental floss has superb tensile strength. <asedeno>

ldpreload.com? Why am I not surprised?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:08:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i amazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonamazonMUSHROOM MUSHROOM

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Sep 28 16:09:00 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

snake

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 28 20:46:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3070/tizen.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 28 20:47:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 28 20:47:03 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 28 20:47:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Could they have put at least a *little* bit of effort into faking the
text on the curvature of the can?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 28 21:05:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 66ddfc6 mx35: add a missing comma in a pad definition <nelhage>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Sep 29 00:53:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

zwrite -i hat
zwrite -î

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:06:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have this sinking feeling that none of our students understand what
chroot does.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:06:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(who didn't already understand it coming into class)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:06:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It gives me full access to the network namespace?

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:10:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"WARNING! DO NOT use tabbed browsing with CareerBridge. Errors may
occur that could seriously harm your activity with employers during
On-Campus Recruiting!"

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:11:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Square Chain Thru <kchen>

I suspect they mean don't have multiple tabs/windows open for
CareerBridge.

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:11:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thruers Percolate <kchen>

(which is annoying, but kind of normal for some sites)

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:12:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I know, but I still like the phrasing

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:21:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

See also SAP.

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 13:22:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

SAP is actually the worst.

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 14:53:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Paul Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

one time, i modified an RFP that i had already submitted (and
shouldn't have been able to) because i created another one in a
different tab.

Class: geofft Instance: the-crap
Time: Thu Sep 29 14:57:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Nifty!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:26:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So what do I need to do to get SAO (or VPF, or?) to let student groups
use Stripe or Square or whatnot?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:27:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gödel
Girdle

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:27:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Write MIT a check for a million dollars. Then _maybe_ they'll let you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:30:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Last time (~Nov 2010) I talked to SAO about using Square, they told
me ~that some relevant part of MIT requires that all credit card
payments be accepted over plain old copper telephone line, and that
somebody (facilities?) is currently reinstalling such lines to make
onsite credit card processing feasible, and it might be ready by
Spark 2011 if we were really lucky, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:30:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, so VPF, then.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:30:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't know:
a) What happened in the six months since then, and
b) Why they think that copper telephone wires are more secure (???)
   than SSL.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:31:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

a) nothing
b) policy and CYA

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:31:32 2011 Host: LUNATIQUE.MIT.EDU
From: 853280a ide: use blk_run_queue() instead of blk_start_queueing() <nelhage>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:31:38 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I'll bet someone's playing telephone there

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:32:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, yeah, probably.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:33:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, presumably the policy predates TCP, let alone SSL

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:36:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Actually... would talking with Ron actually work?
Presumably you'd have to convince him why he should
spend any time on it...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:36:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We actually have the capability to do it over the network (you know,
how like most stores do it these days), but I think it's in
LAWYER_WAIT at this point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:36:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, I have no idea what the political constraints are here. Maybe
just asking would suffice.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:38:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But yeah "Nobody ever got sued for using copper"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:38:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"fired"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:38:30 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"one implies the other"

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:39:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure how to feel that the "You gonna get raped" guy got fired

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:39:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*feel about that

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:39:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:40:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

... is this the guy in the Toronto PD?

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:40:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, somebody sent around the iamge macro, or the dude in the photo
actually got fired?

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:41:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-gonna-get-raped
http://stupidis.livejournal.com/121361.html

"Someone had scanned the picture of Todd from America's Refuse and
placed it online as a sort of punchline.  Julius wasn't the first
Biloxi native to notice.  The picture was forwarded to inboxes across
town.  Todd was, by then, a supervisor at the newspaper.  At his next
employee review, the picture surfaced.  He didn't know what to say.
 He was let go.  William was jobless for six months after that."

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:41:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The dude in the photo got fired.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:42:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Wow. That is an incredibly shitty thing to happen to someone.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:43:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

What makes you uncertain how you feel about it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:43:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The Internet shouldn't have done that and expected the supervisors to
not understand the Internet" vs. "The supervisors should not have done
that and should have understood the Internet"

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:44:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's an injustice, obviously. Where is it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:43:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wow.  I feel slightly vindicated about objecting to the Scumbag Steve
cluster posters, then.  (Scumbag Steve apparently lives somewhere in
BostonCamberBrookvilleford)

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:44:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LSC should invite Scumbag Steve to speak!!!

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:44:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Also Privledge Denying Dude.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:45:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

I think something that disturbs me about the livejournal post is the comment
about how the guy looks at his own picture now and sees a rapist. I wonder if he
would see a rapist instead of someone who is homeless, angry and in a bad
situation if it weren't for the caption

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:46:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't really see a rapist, to be honest...

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:48:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I see someone on a fishing trip up in Maine.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:50:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

I mean, I don't either. But I'm a bit disturbed that he says he does

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:50:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

"he" being the guy in the photo

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:50:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(That said, I'm reminded of "The Sound and the Fury", come to think
of it, I think.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:50:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:54:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I think the only solution here would be to try to replace his image
with a portrait of Superbus Rex, but 
1) I don't think it would catch on.
2) I never find myself in situations where telling someone
   they are going to get raped is an appropriate response.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:56:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, its constant use in forums trivializes rape too, so it
maximizes its ability to suck

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 15:58:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Actually, cropping
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Tarquinius_and_Lucretia_-_Rubens_-_1610_-_Hermitage.jpg
would work prety well.
(warning: the image contains tasteful breasts.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Thu Sep 29 16:01:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

But still, I don't think it would succeed at meme displacement.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:13:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lapentab / greeting / geofft  18:11  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    "Hello,"
lapentab / greeting / lapentab  18:11  (You're going to LOVE ME.)
    That seemed too informal to me though.
lapentab / greeting / lapentab  18:11  (You're going to LOVE ME.)
    I don't know, though, I've never really contacted a prospective
    employer before.
wings / n-c / wings  18:12  (shark:banana::penis:condom - ismith)
    Hallelujah!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:23:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I keep failing to keep food in Stata

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:24:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I wonder if I closed my windows

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:26:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also there is a very upset puppy on this floor

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:38:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh* How do you copy-and-paste a line?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:39:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

C-space at the beginning of the area to be copied, M-w at the end, C-y
to paste.  Or C-w instead of M-w to cut.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:39:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

C-space at the begging of the region
M-w at the end of the region

C-y at the target

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:39:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Circulate <kchen>

Swap beginning and end if you want.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:39:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Or use the X kill ring"

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:40:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I C-k a line, can I get it back?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:41:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run <kchen>

C-y

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha. Thanks

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:45:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think the M-w at the end of the region is optional?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:45:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Or am I confused at what M-w does?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:46:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

If you don't M-w, then you don't actually end up saving the region.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:49:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But if I cut the region instantly with C-w, why do I need to M-w?

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:49:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Trade By <kchen>

You don't.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:51:17 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's cut vs copy

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:52:27 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm weird and don't copy in emacs. Always cut and instantly
paste-back, then paste elsewhere. I'm not sure if that's because I
didn't know about M-w until now or if my emacs/unix/etc knowledge
comes from an older source than is appropriate for my age.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:52:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I usually cut a line with either C-k C-y or C-k C-/.  (The latter brings
the buffer back to "unmodified" if it was already.)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:52:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Copy a line, that is.)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:53:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

achernya: I bet M-w is very old, though it'd be fun to find out.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:53:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It was certainly there when I started using Emacs in 1999.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:53:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==, s/1999/1996/

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:54:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

emacs did M-w in 1986 when I did the tutorial.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:54:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

price: I was referring to how I learned to use emacs, which was by
watching someone use it on old solaris boxes. And his knowledge was
not necessarily comprehensive.

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:54:48 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Kool-aid Oriented Architecture <eichin>

Certainly the first gnu emacs I used had it, but I
don't remember if CCA did (pretty sure, though)

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Thu Sep 29 18:55:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  I think kcr's and eichin's evidence suggest that the age of the
source is not the key qualification here.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Sep 29 19:26:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I should do a blog post on NSS, setuid, setgid, setgroups, and
friends...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Sep 29 19:28:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like, I just had to explain to _the other TA_ how
setgid/setgroups/initgroups interact

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 21:29:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, GRE

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 21:32:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm kind of tempted to schedule it for like this weekend because
otherwise I never will get it done

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Sep 29 22:22:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Spontaneous Chicago Pizza in the G9 lounge? Why did I go home???

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 23:54:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kind of want to reimplement crappy-MixApp

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Sep 29 23:57:47 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The Good Bread <eichin>

as in, do the (relatively easy) chatroom part, and
don't worry about efficient (or "MPAA-correct") streaming and just
play stuff out of afs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:09:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mostly the "distributed sipbmp3" part.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:10:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

e.g., you have a sipbmp3 server that also runs icecast and other
people can tune in to what's playing on that server

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:10:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I've thought about doing that, but running on android... except that
I don't know how to program for android.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:11:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or alternatively if you gbq a song, it actually gets sent to n servers
at once

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:12:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<If one manifests the determination, he can move heaven and earth as he pleases. (from @i(Hagakure))> <xavid>

That'd be pretty trivial to implement.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:12:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

but then whoever owned the phone could rearrange the songs.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:13:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<Clouds of cherry blossoms! / Is that temple bell in Ueno / or Asakusa? (Bashō)> <xavid>

(My pre-MixApp radio thing is an icecast thing with a python module I
wrote that selects what song to play next.)

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:20:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

When: 6 pm to cook, at 7 pm we dine... in HELL! ...NO - totally
kidding!!! We totally want to eventually dine in heaven. Do people
eat in heaven? Not sure if that was kosher just now in a TCC e-mail
but if it's any consolation it was an Easter egg. 

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:21:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

++

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:21:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

"We will be eating flying spaghetti"

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:22:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

How monstrous.

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:22:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ahahaha that would be brilliant.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:25:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.laresblog.com/2011/04/why-cant-i-just-buy-motorcycle-without.html

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:27:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I presume you've heard the thing about how in hell you get infinite spaghetti but
your arms are chained such that you can pick it up but can reach
anywhere but your own mouth?

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:27:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

and that its the same thing in heaven, but people feed each other?

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:29:51 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I don't remember it being spaghetti specifically.

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:30:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

sure, but then It can be less of a non-sequetur.

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:30:34 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The moral I took away from that parable was that heaven kind of sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: tcc.mq
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:31:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I heard it as spaghetti, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Sep 30 00:43:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Our French press has an instruction manual?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Fri Sep 30 01:01:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The comments deflate it a bit.  (Fortunately.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 09:14:17 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

<stark> You've heard of paper radio / mixapp /
turntable.fm, right?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Sep 30 11:50:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The src/cfisher.pyx file contains the following statement:

  "some of this code is originally from the internet. (thanks)"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Sep 30 11:54:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Sep 30 12:15:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, this sounds like perfect fodder for a nice licensing argument

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 30 13:18:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

New TV show from... Rob Bell (@i(Love Wins))... and the producer of
@i(Lost)?
http://m.deadline.com/2011/09/abc-buys-spiritual-drama-from-lost-exec-producer-carlton-cuse-and-pastor-rob-bell/

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 30 13:32:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Rob Bell ... doesn't have a history of making TV shows,
right?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Sep 30 13:38:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not to my knowledge.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 14:58:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

x0) stay home, tool some, clean the apartment and do laundry
x1) go to campus, tool some, meet with students
x2) go to Whole Foods, tool some, buy groceries

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 14:59:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

x2 and swing by E17 on the way back, so you can do my food shopping
for me?

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:00:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Do I get to bill it as Debathena hours?"

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:00:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But... that's... not really not on my way. (More to the point, I'd
probably stay there and hack for like two hours before getting around
to doing shopping)

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:02:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I wasn't actually serious.  Though we should find a time to talk about
how we want the cluedump to work

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:03:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Mostly I want it to work by punting CDBS before then"

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:03:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:03:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, I told you about this evil plan already.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:04:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Instance: trainees Time: Thu Sep 15 15:20:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistorySince_1966_ToThe_PresentDay#
<geofft>

i have half a mind to finish debhelperizing cpd by the cluedump and
switch the archive over and stop teaching cdbs. is this reasonable?

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:04:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You did.  My skepticism still stands

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:04:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: be2bf2d kbuild: cosmetics <nelhage>

No, but you should do it anyways because fuck CDBS, that's why.

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:05:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: doxi
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:05:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I will gladly help, but I'm not going to be useful with the necessary
Make koolaid

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 30 15:11:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no idea who left a cigarette lighter on the living room table,
but I need to stop idly playing with it before I burn the house down

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Sep 30 16:22:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Responsibilities:

  * Implement business requirements by designing and developing
scalable, generic solutions that can become configurable integrations
for subsequent partners and applications.
  * Gain technical proficiency in the areas of integration, relational
database design, PHP, Tibco, Web Services, and other SOA integration
architecture
  * Gain functional understanding of several business processes, and
play a part in functional requirements gathering and design
  * Create design documentation and test plans
  * Provide post production/maintenance support for Web Services
interfaces and SOA environments
  * Develop and support automated unit test assets that drive quality
into code assets. This includes competency in Test Driven Development
  * Communicate World Vision's Christian ethos and demonstrate a
quality of spiritual life that is an example to others
  * Attend and participate in the leadership of daily devotions and
weekly Chapel services

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Sep 30 16:24:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This would be vaguely tempting if the technology weren't so... icky
enterprise. Does that make me a bad person?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Sep 30 16:25:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 60245e8 V4L/DVB (9629): Add support for the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB Remote Control <nelhage>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Sep 30 16:25:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I'm okay with helping the poor, but I'm not sure how I feel about
helping the poor using Scrum"

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Sep 30 16:26:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh great, look at this other posting
"This is an Internet User Experience Designer's dream come true: 6,000
web pages in need of UX overhaul."
I don't think we agree on what "dream come true" means

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 17:21:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of which, I want to figure out why K-9 is the most useless
piece of software on my phone

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 17:21:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if I just configured it stupidly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 17:40:47 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: now these points of data make a beautiful line <eichin>

probably? It's not my primary client, but when I
need it it's useful...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 17:53:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It tends to only download headers and not messages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 17:54:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Who's using it against MIT IMAP? (Is this just me / my phone, or more
general?))

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 30 18:54:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Just tried it, WFM.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep 30 19:45:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/vaKdK.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: spam.are-you-even-trying
Time: Fri Sep 30 20:12:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You have exceeded the storage limit on your mailbox you may NOT
receive or SEND mails,

To increase your storage limit click visit-
http://christophe.cg.free.fr/forms/phpform/use/upgrad011/form1.html

If you no longer want to recieve more email notification from the
administrator click visit-
http://www.deheli.ch/formulare/phpform/use/noupgrade011/form1.html

System Administrator
192.168.0.1

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/r/sysadmin
Time: Fri Sep 30 21:22:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Nexenta is a thing? Not some crazy people? Weird

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Sep 30 21:27:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Noisebridge is having a "Hacker Prom"?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Sep 30 21:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://blog.noisebridge.net/2011/09/22/noisebridge-3-year-anniversary/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  1 03:07:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  1 19:28:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  1 19:44:08 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Good day.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy-wall-st.wat
Time: Sat Oct  1 21:07:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm

Class: geofft Instance: occupy-wall-st.wat
Time: Sat Oct  1 21:14:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

how recently is recently?

Class: geofft Instance: occupy-wall-st.wat
Time: Sat Oct  1 21:15:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's story 13/20 on the home page, http://www.jpmorganchase.com/

Class: geofft Instance: occupy-wall-st.wat
Time: Sat Oct  1 21:16:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

there's a good chance that it's in response to Occupy Wall Street, but I will
say that my experiences at GS taught me that things in companies like that take
_ages_ to get done, so there's a reasonable chance it's been in the works for a
long time too

Class: geofft Instance: google-image-search.suggest
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:04:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For "stupid pictures of": people, obama, justin bieber, animals, dogs,
george bush, selena gomez, cats, the day, celine dion

Class: geofft Instance: foc
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:16:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why are first-year undergrads not permitted to have cars?

Class: geofft Instance: foc
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:16:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The instance may or may not be relevant.)

Class: geofft Instance: foc
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:18:59 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Some are, I think they just don't have enough space for the number of
people who think they want a car but after coming to Boston realize
they don't really

Class: geofft Instance: foc
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:20:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is not an uncommon policy among colleges.

Class: geofft Instance: foc
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:40:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Stanford does it too, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: park-street-church.website.q
Time: Sat Oct  1 22:45:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Parking in metered spaces is FREE on Sundays. There are metered
spaces around Boston Common and on many side streets. (If you are
blessed to find one, praise God!)"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct  2 00:54:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I should get a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:11:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kyoki / news / kyoki  01:08  (I don't even have a fucking zsig!)
    but are there actual practical aspects to their demands on how to change the
    system?
adehnert / n-c / adehnert  01:10  (Alex Dehnert)
    I'm dubious.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:11:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Grow it out!

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:22:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I should not prevent myself from buying a new phone to replace my
current broken one on the grounds that I won't be able to use the
current one for development and general hackery because it's broken

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:24:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Anytime minutes used: 813/300"

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:27:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That said, I'm really happy I got in on the Virgin deal while it was
$25, not $35, because this is the ~only month in recent history when
I've gone over, so regularly paying for 1200 minutes would be silly.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:27:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And apparently there's a "restart my plan month now" button

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:28:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I can pay $25 and get another 300 minutes, which is marginally less
than the 10c/minute overage (which, admittedly, is not that bad)

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:30:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. Do I want to get the same thing I have (which is Virgin's only
offering that's Android + hardware keyboard), or do I want to get,
say, their 4.1" touchscreen and better processor offering?

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:41:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Serpukhov-15 <eichin>

do you care more about ereading, or ssh?

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:42:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ssh. "But it's really annoying having an 80x21 screen"

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:42:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Zoom out.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:42:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I have a 3.7" screen with 122x27

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:42:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the font gets kinda dumbly small. This is not a high-resolution screen
by any stretch of the imagination

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:43:01 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Caffeine for mind.  Pizza for body.  Sushi... for soul. <eichin>

(the 4.1" one looked like a nice screen for reading ebooks on the T.
but ssh with a touchscreen keyboard is somewhere between unpleasant and unusable.)

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:43:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I watched Quentin use SSH on his phone, it was painful. You wnt the
keyboard.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:44:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, on second thought, having used a couple of people's
keyboardless phones (Liz's and kcarnold's) for ssh, I can't imagine
doing that regularly

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:44:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The 100x30 font is slightly unreadable, but I guess I could get used
to it. (Hm, do I get to customize _what_ font? I'm pretty sure there
are programmers' fonts on the interwebs usable at this resolution)

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:47:21 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'll encrypt them so no one else can use them. <eichin>

(that said, a mini bluetooth keyboard could go in a different pocket...)

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:49:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, see my question to -c... sipb? geek? the other day about
Bluetooth keyboard security.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Honestly I wouldn't object to using a _USB_ keyboard. Especially since
the keyboardless model has HDMI out

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:52:42 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I forget myself - I want you to remind me <eichin>

yeah, the Atrix was nice for that (my brother has one.)
usb2go means carrying extra batteries to drive the keyboard, which
isn't good enough.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 01:53:27 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper! - Leader Kibo <eichin>

(the Atrix had a custom dock - but the connectors were just usb and hdmi :-)

Class: geofft Instance: phone.d
Time: Sun Oct  2 02:00:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband/peel-3200.html

Weeeird.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:29:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should figure out how to make rice...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:29:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or buy a rice cooker. Having neither of these, I feel like a bad Asian

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.freeze-exceptions.q
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:31:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

* Release critical bugs
* Security critical bugs
* Exceptional circumstances
* Acts of God, Buddha, Vishnu, Zeus, etc 

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:34:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

++rice cooker

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:34:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

No self-respecting Asian knows how to make rice in a pot ^_^

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:35:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:35:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

unmix

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:35:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

Also, adding salt really helps, cuz it increases the boiling point.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:37:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I always add salt when making pasta...
Anyway, apparently $asian_apartmentmate can make rice in a pot but
burns pasta.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:37:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

Tell them they're not adding enough water.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:39:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

It's normal to have quite a bit of leftover water when you're done
making pasta. I understand this is not normal for rice.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:39:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah! I see.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:39:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Or is that just because I don't usually make rice in pots?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:39:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

Yes, leftover water in rice is bad, unless you're making rice porridge.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:40:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Anyway, there's a reason why you drain pasta at the end. (And also run
cold water over it briefly -- helps it not stick to itself.)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:40:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

Oil works well for that too 

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:40:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, I do never put cold water on it. I often add a little oil

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:41:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(but if I'm eating everything I make immediately, and I'm in a pot
that's sufficiently nonstick, then I don't care)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:41:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Minecraft is not available in the Ubuntu Software Center"
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/804019

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:56:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How do you burn pasta?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:57:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Overcook it as it runs out of water, mostly

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:57:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

WHy do you run out of water?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 03:58:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"incompetence"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:00:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

It's not that weird fi you're used to rice cookers, which work by
boiling whatever-it-is until ~all the water is gone.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:02:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

But... pasta isn't rice. You don't cook them the same way...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:04:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Lots of things are nonobvious.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:12:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, the motivation here was that I'm looking at what to do with this
box of orzo I bought because it was shiny, and rice was a tangent off
that.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:12:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And apparently the thing to do with orzo is to saute it with some oil
(and no water, but still in a pot) until it browns, and then add some
broth

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:13:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Huh. I thought orzo was just another pasta form factor. You learn
something new every day.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:14:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Me too! And I think you _can_ cook it that way

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct  2 04:14:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But the recipes I'm finding tend to involve doing things other than
"cook some orzo the way you would cook any other pasta"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Oct  2 05:09:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... hahaha, I never realized that "battery discharging" is actually
kind of a really worrisome message: http://pad.lv/530751

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Oct  2 06:33:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if RCU or explicit locks or something for _code_ would make
Ksplice easier.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 08:25:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

honestly, I do not really mind kegboardless. There is a learning curve
though. [starking]

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 08:26:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> kegboardless
"okay, well that answers that question"

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 08:32:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

heh, I will say if I am typing really fast it is a bit more error prone

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Sun Oct  2 08:33:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

but that is also when I try to type at faster than I really should on
any type of phone...

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Oct  2 12:54:31 2011 Host: MEGA-MAN.MIT.EDU
From: parable <kaduk>

Do we think he's asleep?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 13:34:52 2011 Host: MEGA-MAN.MIT.EDU
From: parable <kaduk>

Man, the BTS must really hate you.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:02:25 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Really tempted to page ...

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:06:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

phone was off, in any case.

Class: geofft Instance: sightings
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:06:48 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Aw, shucks.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:06:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

see above about being asleep

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:07:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

This instance was referring to tytso's mail.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:07:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yes :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:12:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... so are you subbed to all kfreebsd-8 activity, or were you stalking
me to see if i was awake, or?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  2 14:13:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm on debian-bsd

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Sun Oct  2 17:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, there's an ioctl for force feedback (EVIOCSFF/EVIOCRMFF).

Class: geofft Instance: kwality.illustration
Time: Sun Oct  2 17:58:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://java.net/people/login

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  2 18:58:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 Debian

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:12:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait I now have a geofft@java.net e-mail address?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:12:28 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

hahahahhahahahhaa

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:12:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Since when did registering for random upstream bugtrackers get you
e-mail addresses???

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:12:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...what did you do to have /that/ inflicted on you?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:12:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Reported http://java.net/jira/browse/JINPUT-44

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:13:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Pass Thru <kchen>

I got one for OpenOffice.org or something.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  2 19:18:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

hmm, but sending mail there seems to neither result in a bounce nor
mail to me (it used to), the old bugzilla is read-only, and my bug is
reported as from "Unknown" who has e-mail address
"non_migrated_user@openoffice.org".

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.oq
Time: Sun Oct  2 20:01:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[mishearing "Defcon"]
"Yes, every year there's a Jeffcon where me and Jeff Arnold show up
and cosplay."
"As each other."
"Wait, how come I'm not invited?"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.roomq
Time: Sun Oct  2 21:40:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"If I did screw up some arithmetic, it probably wasn't _very_ many
thousand dollars"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.q
Time: Sun Oct  2 22:18:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"So [redacted] is on crack."
"How much is crack?"
"About $1500."
"That's a lot of crack."

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:45:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Whoever, other than a police or other law enforcement officer acting
in the discharge of his official duties, has in his possession or
under his control an infernal machine or a similar instrument,
contrivance or device shall be punished by imprisonment in the state
prison for not more than ten years or in jail for not more than two
and one half years, or by a fine of not more than one thousand
dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and the said machine,
instrument, contrivance or device shall be forfeited to the
commonwealth. The term 'infernal machine', as used in this section,
shall include any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage
to property, or both, by fire or, explosion, whether or not contrived
to ignite or explode automatically and whether or not disguised so as
to appear harmless. Notice of the seizure of any such machine,
instrument, contrivance or device shall be sent forthwith to the
commissioner of public safety and the article seized shall be subject
to his order."

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:46:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

huh. thats good to know. I'll avoid constructing any IEDs.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:47:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I just really really like the term "infernal machine"

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:47:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't judge me for my addictions!" - gdb <pbaranay>

Also Maxwell's demon.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:49:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is an infernal machine?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:49:11 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Firearm?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it's any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to
property, or both, by fire or, explosion, whether or not contribed to
ignite or explode automatically and whether or not disguised so as to
appear harmless, I guess

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:49:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As it turns out, the text of this particular statute has been revised
as of 2010 to talk about "incendiary devices" instead.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:53:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Whoever, with intent to commit larceny, breaks or enters or enters
in the night without breaking any building or enclosure wherein is
kept or confined any kind of live poultry, may be detained or kept in
custody in a convenient place by the owner of the poultry, or by his
agent or employee, for not more than twenty-four hours, Sunday
excepted, until a complaint can be made against him for the offence
and he be taken upon a warrant issued upon such complaint, and, upon
conviction of such trespassing or breaking or entering shall be
punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than three
years, or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars and
imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than two years."

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:53:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

So, pika?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:53:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, apparently if someone breaks into pika, they can legally lock
the burglar in a room for 24 hours (or 48 if it falls across a
Sunday)

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 01:59:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In unrelated news, if you are a resident of this commonwealth, and
fight a duel outside this commonwealth, and wound someone such that
they die later within this commonwealth, you are guilty of murder.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:00:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Off to save the day.  Or at least get a bunch of shit done." - fyrrwulf <pbaranay>

So don't have duels in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. Check.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:01:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also anyone not a qualified physician who tattoos someone can be
imprisoned for a year.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:02:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I suspect I may be overstepping the bounds of what one friend should
courteously say to another, but I think you are doing what I commonly
do when I should actually be going to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:02:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also if you use a radio or boom box, so-called, on a public road, you
can be imprisoned for a month and they can auction off your radio or
boom box, so-called.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:02:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm waiting for laundry. :)

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:02:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

okay. And you're fine with me having said that?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:02:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, good call

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:03:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, as of 2012 sex offenders may not operate ice cream trucks.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:03:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter265/Section48

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is that intended as "48 if it falls across a Sunday" or "but you
can't do this on a Sunday, because keeping a thief from services
would be cruel"?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why are you reading htese?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Amusement.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

because geofft likes reading code.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

As do I.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:04:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I'm trying to be a good citizen and aware of the law, don't give me a
hard time"

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:05:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... ... apparently it is illegal to discard a refrigerator in a way
that it's accessible to unattended children (like leaving it on the
street) without first removing the door?

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:06:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left 1/4 Thru <kchen>

I think that's pretty common.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:06:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle <kchen>

(such a law or other sort of regulation)

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:07:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Someone should write a bot that outputs a random MA law to -c lex
every day.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:08:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Actually, that should probably be -c law.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:09:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

"I swear I'm not just trying siphon stuff away from -c ternus."

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:09:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If you convert the MA laws into a fortune file, I can load that up
right now. Otherwise I might go write a parser if I get bored enough.

Class: geofft Instance: mgl.q
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:11:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

* to siphon

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:18:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It is difficult to take your email as forthright and not sarcastic,
Geoffrey. If in fact it is the case that you can only speak in sarcasm,
when speaking ex cathedra, it may be better to say nothing at all.
[If you were not being sarcastic, of course, the above apodasis does not
apply.]

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:19:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

if you're referring to what I think you're referring to, he wasn't
being sarcastic and we are working on it but have had more this
weekend with Finboard and LEF/ARCADE than expected.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:20:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

(Also, I really don't appreciate your comments now and earlier today,
to put it kindly)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:20:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

*more to do

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:26:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Would you like to have this conversation somewhere other than my
personal class?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:26:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

AlAlready done.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:26:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Didn't see it, wherever it was, but it's appreciated.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:44:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So was the new location of this conversation with me "personals with
Rachel"? That's an awfully strange way to have a conversation with me.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Oct  3 02:45:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I was not reffering to the "vonersation with me."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct  3 10:42:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

o/~ kdc, easy as 123, get you a tgt from the kdc to authenticate you
and me o/~

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct  3 10:43:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Haha, It took me a while to parse the first and last 3 characters.  I
was like, "What kind of a path is o//mit/geofft?"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:48:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"pull a Lews Therin"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:49:47 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Become crazy, kill everyone you love, die, and be reborn as a
half-Aiel destined-to-die ta'veren?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:50:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

More or less?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:50:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Only 3 of these 5 are possible in our universe.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:51:10 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

(I'm counting half-Aiel and ta'veren separately)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:52:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ALLTAMI (n.) The ancient art of being able to balance the hot and cold shower taps. <ahailes>

(I count 7.  Crazy, kill people, die, be reborn, half-Aiel, destined-to-die,
ta'veren)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:52:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That works too.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:53:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm surprised that "half-Aiel" is actually interesting enough to be
worth mentioning in a 1.5-line summary, but maybe I haven't read far
enough

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:53:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's really, really relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:53:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: WILLIMANTIC (adj.) Of a person whose heart is in the wrong place (i.e. between their legs). <ahailes>

"battle ultimate evil" should also probably be in there somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:53:57 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That hasn't happened yet!

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:53:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And the stuff about him being prophesied by those crazy sea people
isn't?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:54:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Coramoor, that's the word I'm thinking of

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:54:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I didn't include that because not much of it has occured.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:54:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: DUDOO (n.) The most deformed potato in any given collection of potatoes. <ahailes>

hmm, don't think I've met the crazy sea people

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:54:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SKIBBEREEN (n.) The noise made by a sunburned thigh leaving a plastic chair. <ahailes>

ohh, wait, yes I have

Class: geofft Instance: eip.n-c.prnf
Time: Mon Oct  3 12:55:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, they've definitely been around for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:04:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if I'd read more if I downloaded the Kindle app on my laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:04:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It'd be arguably more productive than gnometris or Reddit (and more
offline than the latter)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:04:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 33fdb15 drm/radeon/r600: only assign vb after we know space is available. <nelhage>

read.amazon.com!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:04:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:05:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: eab4b8a KVM: VMX: Optimize vmx_get_cpl() <nelhage>

yeah, web-based kindle reader

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:07:11 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me! <eichin>

relatively new, yeah.  Not useful offline (but
that's mostly "offline web apps don't actually work yet".)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:10:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

yea, its pretty snazzy. 

It has been useful offline for me (at least in chrome).)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:10:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8999210 posix-timers: check ->it_signal instead of ->it_pid to validate the timer <nelhage>

It has yet to successfully work offline for me.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:13:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It requires Chrome? Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:15:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seriously, two people called me at _the exact same time_???

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:16:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I'd guess it uses WebSQL. IndexedDB is supposed to be The Future
(Mozilla rejected WebSQL), but I dunno how mature implementations are
yet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:17:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ac6295c [PATCH] ppc32: removed find_name.c <nelhage>

Yeah, it does.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:17:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8b14a53 [NET]: all net/ cleanup with ARRAY_SIZE <nelhage>

Hilariously your offline books are stored DRM-free in the websql DB.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:19:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)        !(O_o) *CLONED*  !(o_O <mats_a>

once I called a friend and there was no ringtone; 15 seconds later we
realized we had dialed each other at the exact same time and we were
already connected

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:19:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hear TCP does that, but I've never been convinced

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:22:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

>DRM-free in the websql DB

What, mobipocket format and all? Or just html?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:23:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ea79110 [XFS] fix NULL pointer dereference in pagebuf <nelhage>

HTML fragments in a retarded schema that sorta-mirrors the retarded
mobipocket format.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 13:24:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:00:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: Zipcar <do_not_reply-d6b68124fba0bf56ca0f292845567c4df743904c128e476e@zipcar.com>
Subject: A few tips for Zipcar rookies
To: geofft@MIT.EDU

... Okay, you know what, stop stressing me out

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:03:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The functional languages available as output are currently Objective
Caml, Haskell and Scheme. In the following, “ML” will be used
(abusively) to refer to any of the three."

I hate you so much

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:04:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

Welcome to the ML tradition.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:07:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wash (thing related to jdreed somehow)
vash (thing related to jmorzins somehow)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.mq
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:14:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"So properly done (yes, yes, I know, scientific programming is the
opposite of properly done)"

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:41:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Scheme?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Oct  3 14:42:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Everybody has a scheme that just will not work.
Mine is MIT scheme.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:14:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kasittig++. Also in related news, neither of us are dead

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:14:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6fc93d8 [MTD] bast-flash partitions fixup <nelhage>

Congrats.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:14:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

A winner is you.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:19:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, things that are weird, partial list:
- Harvard Square
- the turn onto Alewife Brook Parkway
- the turn from there onto route 2
- the roundabout next to Fresh Pond
- the Albany Street garage
- electric cars

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:19:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ARDSLIGNISH (adj.) Adjective which describes the behaviour of Sellotape when you are tired. <ahailes>

 - roads
 - other cars

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:19:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also WHY ARE THERE THESE BICYCLISTS ON _MY_ ROADS

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:20:18 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Idealism has practical real-world applications.  -- Dave Winer <eichin>

you're not in England, it's a Rotary.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:20:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: LINDISFARNE (adj.) Descriptive of the pleasant smell of an empty biscuit tin. <ahailes>

isn't it a traffic circle?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:20:55 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,707,641. Issued April 27, 2010; 6th of 6. <eichin>

traffic circle is valid too.  ("roundabouts go the other way" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:20:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Intersection that nobody outside Massachusetts knows how to use" is
the common term, I think

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:21:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

==ahailes, I'm used to the Voice of Google calling it a traffic circle.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:21:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What's the password? "I have beer and mcdonalds"  Very, very good guess. <eichin>

the fresh pond ones in particular are "The Circles of Death"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:21:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm used to "roundabout", because the voice on my GPS is currently
John Cleese

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:22:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

I wish this were an option for Google Navigation

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:22:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

==

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:22:49 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Remember... here right of way goes to the person already on the
rotary.
There are scary places marked "Here there be dragons" (like NJ) where
this isn't the case.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:22:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There are totally roundabouts in New York state. I've even seen them
in New Jersey.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:23:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ABERCRAVE (vb.) To strongly desire to swing from the pole on the rear foot plate of a bus. <ahailes>

and France I think

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:22:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Really?  I was unaware New Jersey had intersections other than "ALL
TURNS FROM RIGHT LANE"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:23:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

In Malta, quite a ways north of Albany, there is a chain of 5 traffic
circles with signs that look like arabic at first glance.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:23:52 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Eh, maybe I have the wrong tiny state.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:24:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I was thinking of the roundabout at the north end of the Palisades
Parkway, but I have no trouble believing they exists upstate too.)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:24:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have definitely seen roundabouts in south jersey. I am pretty sure
they exist in the north as well.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:24:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I didn't say they didn't exist outside MA, I said people didn't know
how to use them.  Your citing of New Jersey drivers as an example of
people who know how to use the road is not encouraging :-)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:26:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Having done both, I would much rather drive in New Jersey than the
Boston metro area. Though admittedly that's more a property of the
built environment than the people.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:26:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Amusingly, it's the NY and NJ plates I find myself most frustrated at
in rotaries.  OTOH, that's often on the Cape, proximity to which
causes people to become complete morons when driving

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:28:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I also learned to drive in New Jersey, so it's entirely possible you
want to discount my opinions on the subject altogether :)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:28:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... do I want a pink breast cancer awareness octocat T-shirt? I'm
having a hard time coming up with "no", even though I know that's the
correct answer

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:28:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The best drivers are of course in RI.  It's like Boston, but everyone
else expects you to be a moron.  To the point that you get honked at
if you _don't_ jump the light when turning left.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:49:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Guys.  We are not handling multiple monitors in any way resembling
sane

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:49:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

++

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:49:23 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:50:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I agree. I also have most of a plan to make it sane at the plumbing level

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:50:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, why all the ++s.

But anyway, it's kind of dumb for the LO splash screen to be halfway
on my laptop and halfway on my external monitor

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:50:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...that would not be part of my plan

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:51:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That just means they fucked up coding their splash screen, though

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:51:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

See also debathena-gdm-config

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:53:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Does gdm-config, like, get split across both heads or something?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:54:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:54:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You want to be playing with
gtk.gdk.screen_get_default().get_monitor_geometry(i) and
.get_default_monitor()

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:55:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, yeah, we're currently using gtk.gdk.screen_height()

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:56:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think you might be able to pass -1 to get_monitor_geometry, but I
wouldn't swear to it

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:56:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Do default to the primary)

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:57:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

n.b.: "Primary" output is not really well-defined under the nVidia
binary driver, but Gdk is Xinerama-aware so it will pick *an* output

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 16:59:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, I only barely managed to stop myself from opening up the LO
source to figure out what they're doing wrong, but I did stop myself,
so you'll have to find someone else to fix it. I assume they're doing
something similar (looking at the Java-equivalent of gdk_screen_height
and gdk_screen_width)

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:00:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So is there a reason that the most obvious screen_height and
screen_width functions don't refer to the primary display?

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:01:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because the window manager might have put your window on a different
display

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:01:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And because your entire coordinate system is based on the bounding box
of all your displays

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:01:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, fine, "refer to the display I'm on"

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:01:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because the user might have dragged your window such that it's between
two displays

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:06:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Anyway, I don't think you can solve this by changing what
gdk_screen_height and gdk_screen_width return. Besides the semantic
issues I mentioned already, those are methods on the GdkScreen class,
and its height and width are those of the box bounding all active outputs

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:06:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think the best you could do is, I don't know, rename those methods to
force people to think hard about using them, but that will have to wait
for Gtk+4 at this point

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:07:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"gdk_screen_total_{height,width}" or something

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 17:10:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Battery hotswap confuses me. (Even though I know there's no reason for
it to be at all hard, electrically speaking)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:16:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Next Monday is a holiday?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:17:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And Tuesday, huh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:17:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

yes, columbus day

Class: geofft Instance: goxi
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:20:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

x0) home
x1) SIPB
x2) Cross Products rehearsal
x3) Senate

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:21:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should probably have figured this out before going "huh, Next's
formal is this weekend? Wait, does that mean..."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:21:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

Wait, there is a formal?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:21:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Next has a formal every year

Class: geofft Instance: goxi
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:43:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right! Haircut!

Class: geofft Instance: goxi
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:43:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh. I guess I kind of have to do that ~now, if at all

Class: geofft Instance: goxi
Time: Mon Oct  3 18:46:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, wait, the one next to my apartment is open until 9.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Mon Oct  3 19:25:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

To: asa-db@mit.edu

Hello ASA Database, I would like to know [...]

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:19:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, if I'm graduating soon, maybe I can be a vegetarian

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:20:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

...what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:21:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I attempted this briefly last term, and realized that I don't have
enough good sources of non-meat protein on campus, and really don't
get along well with trying to tool and not eating properly

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:22:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, I've tried this. Meat is better.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:22:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I restructure my life so I am less permanently hosed, more home, or
both, then I'm more likely to be able to succeed at this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:22:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

"go work at Google"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 22:23:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"working on it"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:38:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I am too sleepy to pour a quarter cup of milk without
setting it on fire. It's not even midnight...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:38:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...how do you set milk on fire?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:38:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, you're making mac and cheese... on a gas stove... and you miss.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:40:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think the existence of food porn means that C. S. Lewis argues that
we should all have as much sex as we feel like.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:40:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

what

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:41:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

He has an argument that the sexual appetite is not like the dietary
appetite, and should not be fed every time it hungers

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:42:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And one of the particular examples he gives is that strippers exist,
but if people paid money to watch chefs slowly lift the lid off of a
fine steak (and never get to eat it), everyone would think something
was wrong with them

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:42:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

*snerk*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:42:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

What an image.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:43:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Or take it another way. You can get a large audience together for a
strip-tease act—that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now
suppose you come to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply
bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the
cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out,
that it contained a mutton chop or bit of bacon, would you not think
that in the country something had gone wrong with the appetite for
food? And would not anyone who had grown up in a different world think
there was something equally queer about the state of the sex instinct
among us?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:43:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...so does that mean Lewis is in favor of strippers as long as you
masturbate, but not if you don't?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:44:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, no, that would be like looking at the steak, salivating, and
eating a multivitamin

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:44:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I think that was missing an un. *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:47:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I want a multivitamin now. I feel dirty

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:48:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Oh man, and STDs are like going to a sketchy diner and getting food
poisoning. Possible, but avoidable with societal change and reasonable
precautions.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:49:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...is cooking for yourself like masturbation?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:50:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm more worried about what Mary's mobs are.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:51:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

...so... what's getting pregnant?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:51:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

And if you line your digestive system with rubber you can avoid
getting food poisoning because you never digest anything?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:52:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

I... don't even have any idea how you'd do that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:54:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, it'd probably involve eating lots of some liquid form of rubber
and having it solidify inside you. :-/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:55:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Uh. Is that a reference to some kind of actual contraceptive?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:55:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I think it stopped being one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:55:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

Bulemia is like the pull out method.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:55:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Wait, no, that's more like abortion?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:56:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

stomach pumping?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:56:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

*bulimia

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:56:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

This took a rapid turn for the disturbing. Lets go back to
talking about how vegetarians, vegans, and alcor are all welcome here.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:56:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Okay, I think we left "mere" behind miles ago

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:57:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, why alcor specifically?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:58:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

first ~meatitarian that sprang to mind.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:58:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

om nom nom dead animals?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:58:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I guess I also eat fruit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:59:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

you eat mangos and cuttlefish!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:59:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

"That's okay! You're also welcome here!"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct  3 23:59:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I'm not sure I've ever had cuttlefish, actually. I should fix that.
And snails... snails were on 5-year-old me's list of favorite
animals, and I was always very sad that I never got to try them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:00:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha, cuttlefish.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:00:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 0x8badf00d; 0xdefec8ed 0xdeadbeef. <ageng>

Several places in Canada and France will serve them to you baked in a
tiny bowl.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:00:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Er, snails, that is.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:01:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Of others on the list, one was crabs which I've had. One was bats
and I didn't want to eat those. And the last was dinosaurs and those
are a bit more difficult to get your hands on.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:02:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Wait, minutes.2009-03-09 say "Paddle-fish!"??? WTF?!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:02:31 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Donald!!!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:02:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So back to the original discussion, is having crabs like having crabs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:02:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar. <ageng>

(France also seems to be fond of some sort of meat salad. It's like
potato salad except with chunks of raw meat. Tartare, I think it was
called.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:03:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/crabs/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:04:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<Traveling this high / mountain trail, delighted / by violets (Bashō)> <xavid>

I had snails at a Dim Sum in Philly once.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:04:26 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

There are several french preparations of raw beef. My
favorite for it's simplicity and strangeness to someone
raised with American appraoches to food safety is a little
pile of raw ground beef served with a raw egg yolk on top.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:05:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, Googling, and found that and also found that Belgium calls a
steak tartare 'filet américain'.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:05:48 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak_tartare Tells me the
original term when the dis was introduced in Paris in 1921
was steak a l'Americaine

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:06:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Maybe they were trying to get back at us for the "french
fries" thing.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:12:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, kernel.org is back
(kinda)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:13:26 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

"Welcome to the Linux Kernel Archives. This is the primary site for
the Linux kernel source, but it has much more than just Linux
kernels. It also has rootkits."

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:28:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh goody, testing's getting a Python 2.6->2.7 transition

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:29:29 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What could possibly go wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:30:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Your search for normal subpeople returned two results. <ageng>

Nowhere near as much as went wrong when Archlinux did a 2 -> 3
transition on the stable channel.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:30:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:30:57 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Someone go tell bbaren that's a reason not to use arch

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:31:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: measuring inexactness of the mitochondrial respiratory chain complex since the 1960s <ageng>

It actually wasn't all that bad; they were pretty coordinated about
it. But I still think they're crazy for having transitioned so early.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:31:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, this is kind of what I signed up for with testing. I'm just
looking forward to being unable to run 6.858 code any more

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:32:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catamorphism :: nya -> nyan <ageng>

(In particular, the heavyweights like django and matplotlib don't seem
to be anywhere near upstream support for 3, so it's of questionable
utility.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:32:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft: Why will it breka you 6.858 code? It's just 2.7...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:33:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I will happily make an argument that, given the backwards compatibility
break, /usr/bin/python should never ever be made python3. It should
always be python2.

If you want to drop python2, start shipping a /usr/bin/python3 and
remove /usr/bin/python

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:34:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, Ubuntu did the 2.7 migration a while ago, and aggressively pushed
patches upstream. I would expect the transition for Debian to be
largely painless

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:34:41 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

I mean, debian went from 2.3 to 2.5 to 2.6, we can go
another point release of python without exploding.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:36:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, the fact that Ubuntu did this (and, uh, dpkg) already makes me
really confident that Debian testing is going to be painless for a
while

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:37:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ISTR Greg Price either advocating or reporting the existence of people
advocating for Python 3 to be /usr/bin/py

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:37:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Whatever. I think that's dumb, but the important point is that it is
not and should never be /usr/bin/python

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:40:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wmaker (0.92.0-5) unstable; urgency=low

  * Wee!
  * debian/control: bring old code back from the death to match -4 (closes:
    bug#321307)
  * Weeheeh!

 -- Marcelo E. Magallon <mmagallo@debian.org>  Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:42:40 -0600

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 00:40:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In ... unrelated? ... news, wmaker is just a mess of NMUs

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 09:22:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

red hat, westford, ma

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:23:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Back on campus.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:25:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Kwality interviewer anecdotes, partial list: trolling gNewSense by
pointing out the nonfree blob in the NVIDIA driver and accidentally
holding up a Debian release

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:32:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Other kwality interviewer anecdotes: Bill Cattey and his support
requests

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:32:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O
Where are you interviewing?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, he was saying... something.. about MIT and RHEL 4 and our
support contract, and I asked "wait, were you on the other side of
interacting with Bill Cattey" and apparently the answer was yes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Red Hat.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Where else?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ahahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

they are pretty silly

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:33:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What sorta jobs are you looking for?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:34:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

</vulture>

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:34:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:34:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, it could have been Sun^WOracle

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:34:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

fustflum: I, uh, stuff? development? Linux? And things?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:35:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Other kwality interviewer anecdotes: Bill Cattey and his support
       requests

What was up with his support requests?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:36:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Jon, you want to tell stories?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:36:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, I can point you at the Bugzilla reports.  

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:36:50 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I guess it's semi public that my employer probably has a team of
people doing assorted linux kernel hacking stuff.  Pays well.  Really
good guys.  But, .... consumer electronics..... which for some people
is a HARD REQUIREMENT and others is a DEAL BREAKER.  Lemme know if you
want me to drop a resume in the right place.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:37:03 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"But you're probably not starving for interviews." :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:37:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But basically, Bill's requests were very detailed and ... emphatic.
The problem was that we weren't paying enough for anyone to care.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:37:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I ... don't remember who your employer is these days, Joshua.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:38:05 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Lab126.  We make the Kindle.  Including the.. *takes a breath* Kindle
"Fire".  Which runs Android.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:38:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jdreed: That is basically what
$manager_in_charge_of_anything_desktopy said, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:38:44 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

*pewpewpew*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:39:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

fustflum: It sounds kind of fun, but I'm vaguely too far along in the
process with enough places to be productively able to start
interviewing anywhere else :-(

"Also I should turn more psets in instead of interviewing more"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:39:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Bill liked to say that dealing with Sun and Red Hat was 
"paying for the privilege of fixing their bugs"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:39:30 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

pewpewpew?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:39:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

paigep's zsig.
"Kindle ... FIRE!  *pewpewpew*"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:39:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ah....

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:40:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Which somehow has not gotten old (for me), yet.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:40:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm. What is one of these bug reports?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:42:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

google[cattey site:bugzilla.redhat.com]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:43:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Aw, no lmgtfy link?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:43:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

haha, that works better than I would have expected

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:43:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Though there are totally more than that.  You can also search LP

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh sure, but there's no "Bill Cattey, Linux Platform Coordinator at
MIT and Red Hat stockholder" sig block in LP.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:46:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh, these first three reports are awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:49:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

<3 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470142#c21

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:49:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's a TAM?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:50:15 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

technical account manager

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:50:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Someone who you can pay $15k per year to in order to file bugs in
RedHat's internal bugzilla, which can then also be closed WONTFIX"

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Oct  4 15:56:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=119478#c12.

Class: geofft Instance: interview.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 18:35:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

me: "... I'm not sure whether to respond 'So this is where the magic
happens' or 'So this is how sausage gets made'"
them: "We make magic sausage."

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:17:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DOCUMENTATION

How to complete and e-sign your Application:

 *  Complete the Application using Adobe Reader - Available for free
as part of the Google Pack [pack.google.com] (for Windows XP or Vista
users), and from Adobe's website [get.adobe.com] (for Mac
    users).
 *  If you are using a Mac, do not open the document in Preview - use
Adobe Reader.
 *  Be sure to check both e-signature consent boxes at the bottom of
pages 2 & 3 prior to signing.
 *  Please only sign the form after you have completed ALL fields. You
will not be able to make any changes to the document after e-signing.
If you need to make changes, right click on your signature,
    click "Clear Signature," make the necessary changes, and then
re-sign.
 *  After you click on the e-signature box to add your signature,
please follow the steps below if you have never used Adobe Reader to
sign an electronic document:
     +  First select the "Create a self-signed digital ID for use with
Acrobat" in the window that pops up.
     +  After clicking next, select to store your digital ID in a "New
PKCS#12 digital ID file."
     +  In the next screen fill out your full name, email address, and
country.  You don't need to change or add anything else (i.e. there is
no need to allow for encryption).
     +  Finally, create a file location and password for your digital
ID file
     +  Adobe will then display e-signature certification – enter your
password and press the 'sign' button
     +  Please note that the order of steps above may vary with a Mac.
 *  Save an electronically signed version of the form for your records
using the original file name and email the completed application form
to me prior to your interview. Maintaining the original file
    name will ensure effective administrative processing of this form.

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:20:28 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Wait, your key is self-signed?  *facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:20:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, it's as legally binding as a physical signature, right?

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:20:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Nobody certifies your physical signature on a document in any way

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:21:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And the point here is to be legally binding, not mathematically

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:21:34 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Fair enough.  If that's the case, though, then why can't they just
have you type your name in a box?  IIRC, that's held to be legally
binding nowadays....

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:21:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 85f2bf9 [POWERPC] RTAS MSI implementation <nelhage>

It's also exactly as legally binding as typing "Geoffrey Thomas", but
sure.

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:21:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Veer Left <kchen>

It doesn't sound more useful than just typing your name.  I suppose
they could probably have you somehow verify (assuming you kept your
key) that you were the one who submitted the document.

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 19:22:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Veer Left <kchen>

Although if you deny having submitted it, I don't know that they could
do anything.

Class: geofft Instance: google.travel-agent.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:30:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"There's a little glitch with Gmail, it's going into the spam
folder..."

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:36:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, there's a paper signature option. I'll just do that and fax it
in

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:38:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> fax
Oh you will, will you?

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:39:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

CSAIL HQ looks not impossible. (Although I may need to bill it to my
lab or something dumb like that?)

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:40:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's worth noting that 191 takes any 7 digit number as a cost
object...

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:40:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

191?

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:41:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

How you dial long distance from Class B phones

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:41:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, yes, there's also the "bill it to SIPB and put a quarter in
the treasurer's drawer" approach.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:52:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Starking to my name: /usr/bin/py for Python 3 is something people talked
about on python-dev years ago.  I think it's funny but not necessarily a
good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:53:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(The joke then was that Python 4 in the far future would be just 'p'.
And by the time of Python 5, it wouldn't need a name at all because it'd
be your whole system!)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:53:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But how could that be?  'p' is the current struct proc *!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:54:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

self.__boot__()

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:54:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 411e23d fsldma: Remove CONFIG_FSL_DMA_SELFTEST, keep fsl_dma_self_test() running always. <nelhage>

That seems like a much more dubious name than 'current'.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:55:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or even cp.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:55:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, uh, what exactly is the "Bay Area" / what does it encompass?

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 20:55:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(At what point do you stop being in the Bay Area?)

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:00:47 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: The war instance is intended primarily for coordination between major
geoplitical powers.... <aatharuv>

From San Francisco to San Jose on the west side of the bay. 

From San Jose north to 10'ish miles north of Berkeley on the East
side of the bay. Some number of miles to the east in the east bay.

Oh, there's also Marin County north of SF.

What isn't in the Bay Area: Santa Cruz. Davis. Stockton. Sacramento.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:04:30 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, 
and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not 
commit suicide. - John Adams <aatharuv>

(In terms of counties, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Marin,
Contra Costa, and Alameda.)

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:07:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Napa and other parts of wine country are also not the Bay Area

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:08:45 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

Some parts of San Joaquin county might count as the Bay Area -- Tracy
is a commuter town (but driving from there daily to anywhere with
interesting jobs is painful).

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:09:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

Roughly ==aatharuv.
Basically "anything in any county touching SF Bay," including SF, the
entire Peninsula/Silicon Valley, SJ, Oakland/Berkeley, the smaller
East Bay cities like Fremont/Hayward/Pleasanton, etc.  Also a chunk of 
"wine country" in the North Bay.
Not including the things farther away, like the cities aatharuv
mentioned.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:10:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

broder:  I've heard the opposite (re: wine country).  That one may
depend on who you talk to.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:14:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

FWIW, Wikipedia includes the North Bay in its definition, and gives a
nine-county list:  the six aatharuv mentioned, Napa, Sonoma, and
Solano.  
"but meh, I don't live there anymore" :)

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:18:08 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unconnected node. <aatharuv>

Vallejo (which is the farthest north east I've heard being referred
to as a Bay Area city) is in Solano. But it's in the southern corner
of that county....)
Napa and Sonoma are a bit of a stretch, IMHO.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:19:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

For practical purposes for you, the parts that really exist are
San Francisco, the Peninsula, and Silicon Valley.  I.e., the counties of
San Francisco, San Mateo, and Santa Clara.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:19:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So is Silicon Valley, like... a valley?

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:19:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:19:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

hills to the west, hills to the east

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:19:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that would do it.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:20:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Terrain View in Google Maps makes it pretty clear (and Satellite View
comes close)

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:25:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I have never heard the term "bio break" before, but apparently
that's the new lingo among HR people?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:25:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I've heard it used by gamers.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:25:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

a what?

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:26:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

"bio break" == bathroom break.

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:26:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                        +-(x_x <mats_a>

"for biological purposes"

Class: geofft Instance: interviewing
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:26:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (^.^ <mats_a>

==dwilson

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:44:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

see also http://www.quora.com/Why-is-Googles-recruiting-process-so-bad

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:44:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Bad recruiters =/> bad anything you actually experience when you're
there.

Class: geofft Instance: google.q
Time: Tue Oct  4 21:44:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(annoying though they are)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Tue Oct  4 22:14:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We're... meeting? Did I miss an e-mail?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:19:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

UAP/ UROP for Credit

Project Title:   Measuring an Individual's Breathing Patterns

In certain situations, an individual may unconsciously hold their
breath - - e.g. when the individual is in a new environment/unknown
situation, when the individual is watching a performance, etc.

The goal is to design some mechanism (which will likely involve both
software and hardware)
that is cost-effective non-invasive for measuring breathing so that we
can answer the following questions:

 - Is the individual holding his/her breath?
 - How long is the inhale and the exhale?
 - How deeply/shallowly is the individual breathing?

Please send resume and inquiries to tleng@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:21:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Heh, Tony Eng.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:21:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

TONY ENG IS WATCHING YOU BREATHE

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:21:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Also, they have devices like these.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:23:15 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Applied Paranoia Poster Child <eichin>

and you can get at least a partial answer
to #1 directly off of heartrate

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:23:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

And blood oxygen, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:23:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

I feel like you could do this with a shirt and some accelerometers.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:23:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

The Wii Vitality Monitor uses this, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:23:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell. Ask me anything. <afarrell>

or there is already a shirt that measures heartrate.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q.wtf
Time: Tue Oct  4 23:43:24 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hahaha. That totally sorta came up in UAT.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 00:02:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 00:17:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

meh, going home sounds like effort

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Wed Oct  5 00:29:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, a Not Coffee

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Wed Oct  5 00:29:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] Whoo, California.

Class: geofft Instance: california.competence
Time: Wed Oct  5 00:30:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, pro tip: South CA != North CA. IF you end up in one, you're not
making a quick day trip to visit your friend ni the other. (Yes,
people don't realize this sometimes.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:15:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whyyyy do I have accounts at my friends' startups

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:16:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess the mail I get every so often from Ksplice is actually
relevant to me. StumbleUpon and Quora less so :-)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:27:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Er, like, on their corporate mail systems, or on the websites?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:27:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On their websites.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:27:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I at least used to still have a @ksplice.com account, I'm
pretty sure I don't at all now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:51:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> class

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 10:59:02 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

About that...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, how fast can I get from a 4PM class to a plane?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"If you punt class, very quickly."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is a 5PM flight unreasonable?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, a class that ends at 4PM.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're cutting it super close

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:55:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Brookline Hills. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

i would think, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:54:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, I wouldn't do that unless I had a refundable ticket

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll say 5:30

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:55:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Hawes Street. <stum>

as in, that's not likely to work out well.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:55:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Which airline/terminal?
(And at rush hour, things might be more exciting)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:55:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Longwood. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

assuming you're not checking? also, you'd have no slack time.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:56:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not checking bags, no. Uh, no idea yet.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:56:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you leave campus at 4, get a cab immediately, and people on the
roads aren't completely retarded, you might get to the curb at
4:30ish.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:56:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also how quickly can I get from downtown SF to SFO?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:56:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

~40 minutes on BART, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:57:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

If you're going to do that, schedule a cab ickup in advance.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:57:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

*pickup

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:57:14 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

An hour by T is totally doable *if* you aren't checking luggage, are a pro
at the x-ray/lane bingo game, and don't draw the short strip-search straw.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:57:24 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

Where in downtown SF?

"cabs are painful in SF at times"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:58:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Ask the place you're interviewing at if they have Cisco Telepresence"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 12:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, I do opt-out on principle all the time :-(

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fun facts: Google's travel agency ran the train car on which the
Armistice was signed

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:25:22 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:26:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh cool, they also ran the Orient Express.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:26:49 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Google has time travel?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:27:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I assume 'the agency that google hires to do travel arrangements'

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:27:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==kaduk. In the 1890s, they started the Orient Express. In the 1910s,
they provided a car to Ferdinand Foch. Today, they do travel for
Google (and presumably many other places)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:27:57 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Ah.  That makes more sense than how I was parsing it.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:31:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Haven't you heard? Google Time is where all the cool kids will be
have been workeding."

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:32:10 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The average adult body contains half a pound of salt. <asedeno>

"I started with them next year."

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:32:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Nice! How will it have been?

Class: geofft Instance: tig
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:34:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, Quanta donated a Eucalyptus cluster to CSAIL

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:37:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Do you not have a car while you're here?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:38:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Downtown SF to SFO is about 20-30 minutes by car outside of rush hour
conditions

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:42:30 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: This is a bad plan. You will fail. <asedeno>

Didn't we discuss this next week? I don't like repeating myself.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:42:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I guess we will, sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 13:42:45 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The first person to prove that cow's milk is drinkable was very, very thirsty. <asedeno>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, why is aklog csail hanging.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:30:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

WARNING: The print queue 'xerox7' does not appear to exist.
If you're trying to print to a cluster or dorm printer,
you should now be using the 'mitprint' queue instead.
See http://mit.edu/printing/pharos for more information.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:31:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:31:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So xerox7 is on cups.csail

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:31:29 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If it's not in Hesiod, why are you trying to print to it?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I did "print to lpr" in the GNOME dialog box, with my command line as
env CUPS_SERVER=cups.csail.mit.edu lpr -Pxerox7

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or less usefully, "because I'm standing in front of it"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We don't honor CUPS_SERVER in the wrappers.  File a bug

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, you want me to file bugs against the wrappers??

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

or run lpr.debathena-orig

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:32:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I don't _want_ you to, but feel free to

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:33:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I tried cups-lpr and cups-lp first.
Apparently my _real_ problem is you need to be on CSAILPrivate, not
StataCenter, to pull this off

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:33:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(or on the wired network, so I ended up doing "ssh login.csail.mit.edu
lpr -Pxerox7 < file.pdf")

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:33:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:34:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because apparently Kerberized wifi works better than Kerberized
printing

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:34:44 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Kerberized... wifi?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:34:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:42:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"RADIUS with passwords synchronized"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:43:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's different.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Oct  5 14:48:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ezyang / philosophy / ezyang  14:12  (Go, Grandsire Doubles!)
    What is a reasonable formulation of 'choice' in a modern society?
MAIL / INBOX / imap.po12  14:14  (po12.mit.edu)
    You have new mail in INBOX.

    From: Marian E Styer <mestyer@MIT.EDU>
    Subject: [TCC-social] TODAY! Pro-Life Kickoff Meeting!! 10/5,7:30pm! Free cookies!
    To: "pro-life@mit.edu" <pro-life@mit.edu>, "pro-life-officers@mit.edu"<pro-life-officers@mit.edu>, "tcc-social@mit.edu" <tcc-soci

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 15:50:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

token token token

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 15:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

token token

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 16:23:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

students.q: "More tokens! Tokens everywhere!"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 16:24:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What are tokens here?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 16:28:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How (zo)okws services auth themselves to the DB

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:07:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 students, for the record

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:39:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, apparently a PDF 1.6 form as saved by evince is unopenable by
these Oriental Express folks.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:40:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I almost feel like debugging.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:40:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Ships, 10/7-9: @<souls' festival / today also there is smoke / from the crematory (Bashō)> <xavid>

You really don't.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:40:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:43:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, print to PDF converts it to PDF 1.5. Maybe that helps.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:43:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, _xpdf_ can open it, what is wrong with Adobe Reader

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:43:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, that's like "cat can open this .doc, what's wrong with Word"

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:44:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

xpdf can open it and read the data usefully and it renders properly

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:44:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Even the form data shows up (even though it can't edit the form)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:44:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On the other hand, "print to SVG" makes a royal mess of it.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:44:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What happens if you pdf2ps && ps2pdf it?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:44:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... that's a thing?

I blame the form stuff - it can be very picky

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:45:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woohoo! Print to PDF fixed the problem.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:45:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jdreed: Yes, the GNOME print dialog in
GNOME-not-quite-the-future-but-almost lets you choose either PS, PDF,
or SVG

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:45:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The future is a scary place

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which reminds me, I should install GNOME 3 on my laptop

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because I feel bad not having an opinion on it

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"don't worry, i'm sure it sucks"

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It does

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a0f4672 [POWERPC] Fixed some missing files to be deleted when running make clean <nelhage>

It's just like Unity except differently so.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:46:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, it's less well executed than Unity

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:47:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are you implying that Unity is well executed, or that GNOME 3
_really_ sucks?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:47:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But they're on GNOME 3.2 already!

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:48:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm saying that for a single-user machine with a small-to-moderate size
screen, Unity is very good once you get over the initial hump of
getting used to it

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:48:19 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm still on F14 because GNOME3.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:48:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oneiric's Unity is also leaps and bounds better than Natty's Unity

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:49:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*shrug*  I still don't like its learning curve.  I feel like it's the
worst of OS X plus the worst of GNOME, and that doesn't really help
anybody.  I'd still dislike it but totally understand if it was geared
more towards new users than twm-using greybeards

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:49:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Point, I haven't tried Oneiric's yet

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:51:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oneiric's is pretty surprisingly usable, although compiz still
crashes rather more than I'd like.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:52:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

glasgall: They were pushing updates for both unity and compiz very
frequently over the last week that claimed to fix crashes

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:52:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's also kinda surprising how quickly one gets used to a global
menubar.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:53:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

My opinion is that on anything smaller than 17" or so, the effort to
minimize window chrome for maximized windows *really* pays off,
especially for terminals

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:53:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've noticed, and am thankful for the crashes that have been fixed.
It still crashes fairly regularly.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:53:36 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'll accept a global menubar once someone makes it work reasonable on
multimonitor set ups.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:53:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

My x220 has fewer vertical pixels than my x200 had, so I am thankful
for such efforts.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:54:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(grumble grumble widescreen mumble kids these days mumble lawn)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:54:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Let's see, switching over, problems I immediately have looking at gnome-shell:
 - Notifications serialize really badly
 - I would not consider it keyboard-friendly
 - I don't like their uni-dimensional workspace layout

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:54:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

 - I don't like their on-demand workspace allocation

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:54:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

== on the uni-directional workspace layout. There's an extension to
fix the dynamic workspace allocation thing.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:55:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is there an extension to bring back a grid of workspaces?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:55:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I really *want* to like gnome-shell.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:55:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have not seen such an extension. I would like one. Perhaps I should
see about trying to do one myself.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:55:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

 - I can't live without Unity's Super-Shift-# shortcut anymore :)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:55:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If you make one, that would be awesome beyond belief.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 17:57:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'll take a look at the API if a) I have time later and b) I can find
any kind of documentation for it. It's such a weird restriction.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:00:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I also kind of feel like Ayatana's push to make everything use an
indicator pays off in Unity - it's kind of dumb to have the Tomboy menu
buried at the bottom of the screen under gnomesh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:26:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, Gluster's website reminds me of Ksplice's

Class: geofft Instance: polycom
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:32:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

haaaate

Class: geofft Instance: polycom
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:32:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hrrm?

Class: geofft Instance: polycom
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:33:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

this phone takes like ten times as long to boot up as my piano

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 18:57:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AFK -> homeish

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 19:08:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

aww crap, i have clothes i should pack in sipb

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct  5 19:09:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i guess i can stop by sipb without difficulty

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 20:14:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

I'm not sur eif that's a compliment or an insult.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 20:18:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Given that a key objective of the Ksplice website was to look like the
website of an enterprise startup, I think it's a compliment for Ksplice.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

well, "the website of a random Linux kernel development startup that
obviously wants someone like Red Hat to acquire them"

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hello from my new Samsung Intercept. It's like the old one, but less
broken.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:56:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Opinions on whether to spend the weekend in Mountain View or San
Francisco? (i.e., after my first two nights of hotel, should I move?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:56:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've never been to Mountain View, but San Francisco is pretty. Avoid
Berkeley.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:56:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Depends.  ``Do you want to do anything/have fun, or do you want to
work?''

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:56:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you haven't been to SF, it's worth going.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:57:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you have a car, go to Muir Woods

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:57:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm going to be in SF on Monday at least, should I stay there Sat/Sun
night?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 21:58:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Joshua: Uh. I'd like to see the place enough to have info towards "do
I want to live there", but I have a lot of thesis to catch up on

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:01:00 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A New Life Awaits You - in the Off-World Colonies! <eichin>

if you're in mt view and want to see wildlife, baylands
has nice trails and a lot of strange (from a new england
perspective:-) birds...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:05:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you work in Silicon Valley, you're not going to live in SF.  I think
the commute is insane for most people, but it'd only be worse with your
irregular schedule.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:06:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Really?  I got the impression Mountain View was a lot more walk-able
and had, like, a center than Acton.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:06:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Downtown Palo Alto is probably your best candidate.  Maybe downtown MV,
if you work in MV.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:06:27 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(I work in Silicon Valley, I live in SF, and the commute is FUCKING
HELL.  But SF is great.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:06:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, ==jdreed, downtown MV is walkable.  Not that that's all of MV.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:08:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So SF is worth visiting if you haven't (for one thing, you'd probably
visit it reasonably often if you lived here), but you should definitely
spend time in the places you might live, too.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:08:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Should this have a bearing on where I spend the weekend?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:09:44 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unpacking <aatharuv>

Where are you thinking of working? Where do your current bay area
resident friends live? google and (I'm sure also facebook) have buses
that go everywhere in the bay area, so at least you have net and
don't have to drive/depend on insanely inconvenient public transport
to go from work to home. If not, an SF<->Santa Clara county commute could
be painful (unless you live and work ~next to Caltrain on both ends.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:09:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll spend at least one day in Silicon Valley and one in SF. My plan
for the weekend is "try to catch up with friends, see the area a bit,
find some cafes to tool"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:10:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, a full day in each is pretty reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:25:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I should mention I have a rental car the whole weekemd. So it's
kind of a question of where I want to be a half hour from, more than
anything else

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:26:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Good move.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:28:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm leaning towards staying in MV so I don't have to move my stuff

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:36:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Having two phones is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:36:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(even if only one has cell service)

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:58:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

BETTER DEAD THAN ZED

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:59:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "zsigged." "Dammit." - pbaranay, wings <pbaranay>

There are zombies in your laundry?

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:59:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I tore one of my nicer jeans in @i(Arcadia) fighting zombies

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Wed Oct  5 22:59:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and I want to wear it :(

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct  5 23:16:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

All right y'all, stop tweeting private use characters

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct  5 23:17:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 375f73f [PATCH] ext3: direct-io transaction extending fix <nelhage>

======

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct  5 23:19:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Park Street. Change here for the Red and Orange Lines. Doors will open on both sides. <stum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct  6 00:14:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not on flame-war lists? Wow, I am really not an undergrad anymore

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:31:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't know nearly as much about Judaism as I'd like to. (Where I
think "I'd like to" means "knowledgeable and well-read enough to feel
vaguely justified in having opinions about traditions or theology", or
so)

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:39:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can someone give me a call?

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:40:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:41:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay, number points to new phone.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:59:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Y'all have fun, I'm going to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 01:59:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:14:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:-/ got woken up by a company I had to say no to

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:16:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bah. That looks too much like an offer. GO AWAY I DON'T WANT TO THINK
YET

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:22:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also, "oops overslept"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:40:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the difference between an ability and a capability?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:43:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I love being able to type the first two words of a paper's name and
find it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:44:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Current status: 51 updates [+27], 9526 new [-20].
                                           ^^^^^ haha python2.7

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:46:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

that's nothing.  
I watched my advisor google for this paper using only the author's
last name:
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.116.5477
Successfully.  With no mishaps.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:49:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other news, your paper is motivated by... securing
conference-management/paper-submission software? Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:50:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure whether to give you credit for writing security crap for
an actual real-world project for once, or be skeptical that "authors
can't submit papers past the deadline" and "reviewers' identities
aren't leaked" in any way resembles an interesting security policy

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:53:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

dwilson: Impressed.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:53:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

So was I, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Thu Oct  6 12:55:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha. ++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:10:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, my flight leaves at 7pm?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:11:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Tonight?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:12:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:12:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And I haven't packed, and now I am in the state where I cared enough
about getting an assignment done for class that I may not have time to
attend said class

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:12:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which is the worst state.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:13:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And it's not done, so I might stay home, finish it and pack

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:25:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... think I can go to class, come back, pack in an hour, and still be
at the airport on time.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:25:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I need to make some calls but I can do that at the airport, which
helps

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:25:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should probably also reply to some emails or something, but that too
is airportable

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct  6 14:26:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I This too, shall pass^Wbe done at the airport

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Oct  6 15:52:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well done

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Oct  6 15:53:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Oct  6 15:53:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

huh?

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Oct  6 15:53:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Haha, I'm viewing this on Debathena, and I was still moving the mouse
like "Why the hell won't that move out of the way?"

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd.d
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:15:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

i,i "I'd like to see the Tech print that"

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:34:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

All right, made a local git-svn clone of athena/trunk/debathena,
my config-package-dev fork, and dh-ifexists. Now to figure out if I
have enough socks

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:35:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Order of priorities: questionable.

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:35:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Especially since I intend to sleep on the plane)

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:35:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"What about the order of operations?"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:46:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do you clean plush toys?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:47:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"a vacuum cleaner" is tempting, but seems wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:49:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(My companion cube fell on the floor under my bed, so it has dust and
hair and fragments of wood that have chipped off my bedframe and other
such undesirable stuff on it)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:49:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Most plush toys are small enough to be spot cleaned (sponge + soap +
water on the surface only) and not get mildewy. I've also heard
recommendations for using a hair dryer to remove dust or lint. I
imagine lint rollers would also work.

(The reason spot cleaning is bad for big toys is you really don't want
to allow the water to penetrate very deep, otherwise mildew happens,
and big toys have depth. For something like ET's giant duck, I htink
the plot is to remove the skin entirely, machine-wash it, and then
reassemble.)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:50:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, sponge might help. Or a lint roller... I wonder if I have one

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:50:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

== on lint rollers.  That's how I clean things the cats have
discovered.  And one of the cats themselves, actually

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:51:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Oh. Uh. yeah, use a damp sponge or some sticky tape. Or with something
as flat as a companion cube, a vacuum might not be a bad option.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:51:49 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

jdreed: O.o now there's an amusing image.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:52:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Honestly, she loves it.  As did a previous cat.  The other cat hates
being lint-rollered, but loves getting in the shower with the water
running.  My cats are strange.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 16:54:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

I note that the internet has a lot of suggestions that sound generally
reasonable.  (By "the internet" I mean "places that sell plush toys"
in addition to "random forums")

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:20:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, there's a bunch of crackling/clipping when I hook up my
laptop to the speakers in my apartment, but it's also an issue if I
play it locally

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:23:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh good, I'm not the only person I know who bought a companion cube.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:49:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> BOS -> SFO

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:50:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

have fun

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:50:55 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Installing Linux on a Dead Badger for Dummies <aatharuv>

==jdreed

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:51:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6065772 ieee1394: sbp2: more checks of status block <nelhage>

have fun, good luck, &c.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:51:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Don't die.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:51:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is there a CS-specific way of wishing good lucky?
"Break a callback!"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:51:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Break a loop", I suppose, too

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:52:43 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

Dereference a null pointer!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:53:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Dereference a null pointer!

That sounds bad.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:53:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Overflow a buffer!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct  6 17:54:54 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Trolling for fun and profit <aatharuv>

Divide by zero!

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd.d
Time: Thu Oct  6 18:40:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

... Gizmodo took a screenshot?
http://gizmodo.com/5847258/xkcds-tribute-to-steve-jobs-is-simple-clever-and-moving

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd.d
Time: Thu Oct  6 18:41:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... gizmodo didn't know about the alt-text?

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd.d
Time: Thu Oct  6 18:42:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Or whoever submitted it didn't?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:34:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

SFO. Thanks for the exceptions, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:35:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Aww, it's too early for you to have sketchy airport-van'o'clock.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:37:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a car!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:37:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hm. I wonder what the route is, precisely.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:37:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "you know your biker gang is badass when you all stride into the diner and order vanilla milkshakes with sprinkles." - manayach <pbaranay>

Zipcar?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:38:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Traditional rental. "same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:38:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Glee will protect me from your evil plans!" - chope <pbaranay>

But you're not 25.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:39:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"that hasn't stopped me before"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:39:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you can use the MIT personal number if you're under 25

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:39:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Why do y'all go to bed so early?  It's not even tomorrow yet!" - wings, in California <pbaranay>

ah.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:39:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

geofft is clearly exceptional.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:39:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If Google doesn't magically make me 25, MIT will ==kasittig

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:43:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Where are you trying to get?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:48:20 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: @@mantra(there is no such thing as "extended ascii") <aatharuv>

Assuming you're staying at a hotel in or near Mountain View: Take 101
south and drive for ~30 minutes. Really, though, Google Maps is
pretty good at this :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:49:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mountain View, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:50:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, ==aatharuv, basically. SFO is just off of 101. Avoid signs
pointing you towards 380, but it's kind of hard to screw up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:50:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

achernya: had plenty of sketchy airport van experience last time I was
in a small airport in India, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:51:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's particularly funny at SFO. I have a story, if you care.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:56:52 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Trolling for fun and profit <aatharuv>

achernya: sure

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 01:59:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

My dad an I took a redeye flight to SFO (the flight sucked, horrible
turbulence), and got to SFO at ~2AM PST. The hotel we were going to
stay in was a small, sketchy place in Berkeley, so we had to get
either a taxi or an airport shuttle. We found a ``shuttle'' run but a
recent immigrant. Besides having the sketchest driving ever, he was
totally lost. His GPS wasn't working, so he tried to pull over a
motorist in a convertible at a stop light. I've never seen anyone burn
rubber like that before---can you imagine, a huge sketchy van trying
to pull you over?

Eventually, my dad an I called my mom, who Google Maps'd this, at 5AM
EST.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:08:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Where were you coming from, to get into SFO at 0200?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:10:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Ohio, with layover in St Louis.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:11:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Weird. These days, the only STL-SFO is 1925-2148.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:12:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

This was in '07? I think the flight got delayed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:12:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

Ouch. Brutal.

Class: geofft Instance: airport
Time: Fri Oct  7 02:26:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, this is amusing: this random Asian place gives "potsticker
sauce" packets with their meal, which consists of two conjoined sauce
packets, one soy vinegar and one chili oil

Class: geofft Instance: hertz
Time: Fri Oct  7 03:11:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

grahhhhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: hertz.guy.q
Time: Fri Oct  7 03:21:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It says 'do not upgrade or offer additional services', so"

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Fri Oct  7 04:50:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is a strange country.

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Fri Oct  7 04:51:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are billboards ranting about cloud and virtualization, and
advertising HR law services for startups. My hotel room comes with a
dodecahedral Rubik's cube and some other toys.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 04:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 :perl $ENV{TZ} = "America/Los_Angeles"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 09:18:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ca89a51 [JFFS2] Finally eliminate __totlen field from struct jffs2_raw_node_ref <nelhage>

Does that ... work? ISTR changing $TZ at runtime is not sufficient.

Class: geofft Instance: argh
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:27:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Who needs wakeup calls from the hotel if you've got a recruiter who'll
call you ten minutes before then?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:28:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It updates the fmtext, certainly. I'm not sure what else it's supposed
to update

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:57:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think my current plan is:
 - I want to get a Ph.D.
 - Preferably before I'm 30.
 - I'm not really in a state where I can deal with grad school
   productively and expect to make any progress.
 - Maybe a full-time job I care about will fix that.
 - But I'm not sure how long to stay there.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:58:02 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It seems hard to meet all those constraints.  Ph.D.s take 5-7 years,
right?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:58:24 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I guess set an alarm clock for age 25 (if you're exiting school with a
masters).

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:58:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right. I can give up on "preferably before I'm 30" if it implies "will
successfully get one at all"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:59:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I'll have a master's when I leave school. (This is not to say
I'll definitely have a master's in January, though I expect to, it's
to say that if I don't I will deal with finishing it somehow before I
leave)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 10:59:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And I have... five semesters before I'm 25.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:00:37 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The other trick is finding a full-time job that you care about, but
can accomplish meaningful work in in 2.5 years such that you don't
feel too guilty leaving.  (A job you don't care about dodges that
problem.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:01:21 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think I've started to accomplish meaningful work in my current
position after about that long, but have also made myself almost
completely indispensible.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:02:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The place that gave me a verbal protooffer yesterday wants me to be in
a position where I definitely won't feel comfortable leaving any
sooner than two years, and probably not any sooner than like 5.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:05:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And yeah, "job you don't care about" is the easy answer but ugh. The
folks who woke me up today and yesterday, I could feel comfortable
leaving after about a year or two, but that would as much be because I
expect to not want to be there in a year or two

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:05:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which doesn't really help the "try something completely else and see
if it fixes your work ethic" problem

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:06:21 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Spending 2 years doing something you don't want to do in
the hopes that it will help you want to do something you
don't really want to do, seems strange.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:06:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: love, reign o'er me <jessiehl>

Would you consider contract jobs?  That way, you know from the
beginning that you'll only be there for 9 months or whatever, you
aren't screwing over the company.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:07:07 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Personally I think that getting a PhD for any reason other
than you like being a grad student is silly, it's too much
of an opportunity cost for someone in your position to do
it for the potential upside.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:08:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Regarding tenure at a company, conveniently for you the
employer-employee relationship has eroded to the point
where 2 years is a fine amount of time to spend somewhere,
as far as meeting your obligations goes.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:09:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I like being a grad student, honestly. Certainly that's enough that it
justifies other things like "While I don't like the fact that certain
people will only take you seriously in certain contexts if you have a
Ph.D., it'd be great if I could be taken seriously in those contexts"

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:09:30 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

What contexts?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:13:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The sorts of things that come to mind are O(MSR), being involved in
conferences, and teaching at universities as not-faculty. "And
teaching at universities as faculty, come to think of it"

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:14:52 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Personally I'm a fan of Roger Dingledine's technique of
doing cool shit and letting people assume you have a PhD.
It's currently working ok for me. Being involved in
conferences and teaching at universities as
not-tenure-track is accessible that way. I don't know MSR
well enough to comment.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:15:39 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

(not that roger invented this, just he was ~3 years ahead
of me so I could see how it worked for him)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:15:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, I'm okay with that, but... it bothers me that people have to
assume that at all

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:16:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

People are small minded and prefer not to have to make
their own judgements.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:16:30 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

(and we stopped letting them be sexist and racists)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:16:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess the thinking-very-ambitiously case is, I'd like to convince
people that you shouldn't have to pretend to have a Ph.D., but they're
only going to listen if the person who's saying it holds a Ph.D.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:17:33 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Well, you can fix the establishment from the inside or the
outside. Which is more effective is difficult to predict in
advance.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:18:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Also note that just having a PhD doens't really put you
inside the establishment, you have to do a lot of other
unpleasant things before yuo are firmly ingrouped there.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:18:39 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

but I'm afk.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:18:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Me too, I have some continental breakfast to eat

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:18:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

"Spending seven years so that you can convince a bunch of irrelevant
and wrong people that they are wrong is not a good life decision"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:20:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am distinctly not convinced that they're irrelevant. "This would be
simpler if they were"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:20:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

I even forgot to mention the part where for those seven years you are
paid perhaps ~1/5 what you'd be paid elsewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:21:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And in any case, I think I'd enjoy the Ph.D. for its own sake, so
having poor but existent motivations to actually go through with it is
okay

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:21:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm unconvinced I care. See also "enjoy the Ph.D. for its own sake"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:23:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm having a hard enough time biting my tongue and not telling hiring
departments when they ask about salary requirements "as long as it's
even slightly higher than a grad student stipend, I don't care".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:28:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

What are your thoughts on the academic paper system?  Do you look
forward to carefully crafting the language of your paper's
introduction so that you can get it accepted on its second conference
submission?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:30:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Anyway, I'm obviously highly skpetical of "systems" academia.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:48:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jbarnold: Not really, but it's the only real forum for publishing,
whether you're in industry or academia

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:48:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And yes, I would like to be publishing regardless of where I am.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:49:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear hotel, your coffee filter sucks or is nonexistent

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:51:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Do you feel like publishing is inherently more valuable than other
forms of doing interesting technical work to make a contribution to
the world?  I think that too many people let professors, etc
brainwash them into thinking that papers are the highest form of
intellectual endeavor.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 11:52:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In this field, publishing is the highest form of commenting your code.
It's worthless without code to comment, but that doesn't mean it's a
waste of time always.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:01:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Anyway, for a while I wished that people would move away from the
paper system (where you are judged based on how many papers you
publish in certain journals) to something else.  Perhaps a system
where people and organizations give you points for doing good work
that they think is valuable.  And it would be nice if you could spend
those points to convince other people to work with you on your
projects.  Then I realized that that system kind of already exists.
The points are even internationally recognized for buying any good or
service that you might want.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:03:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We're legitimizing asa-jhawk? What the hell

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:03:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If people have comments they can send them to asa-exec like was
requested

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:04:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also why are we talking to people who don't represent any student
groups?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:04:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, wouldn't want people to be able to discuss in advance!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:04:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Get off my class.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:06:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Fuck that; why are you caring about forums where no students are
talking?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:06:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because it's (currently) possible for non-students to represent
student groups

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:07:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I wouldn't be opposed to this changing, or "only students have
speakin privileges at GBMs", or something. Maybe I'll make that motion
if I still have speaking privileges next GBM.)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:44:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It totally works - I've done it before

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 12:59:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

[stark]
I am roughly following your current plan in my life.  (I'm not on
track to get a PhD by 30, but probably not *too* far off.)  
I largely agree with the broad points that tibbetts has made
(though I might quibble on some details).  

I wholeheartedly agree that the reason to do a PhD program is that you
like /academia/, including the process of getting a PhD.  I also agree
that doors do not magically open and people do not magically take you
seriously once you do have a PhD (some doors are easier to get in but
still require work, and some doors are harder to get in).

I would point out that the current state of affairs seems to have a
significant academia/industry divide and that non-PhD people welcome
in both (such as tibbetts and Dingledine) seem to be very rare;
however, that's my perspective as a theorist and things might be
different in systems.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 14:04:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You’re supposed to call POSIX::tzset() when you change TZ, but we
probably have enough libraries doing that automatically that you
didn’t notice.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Fri Oct  7 14:06:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Or maybe that’s unnecessary on glibc.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 14:52:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why do you want to get a Ph.D.?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct  7 14:56:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I guess that got answered.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct  7 18:26:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> Redwood City

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 00:07:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

that was a vaguely surreal dinner.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 00:08:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

did your chair melt alfway through?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct  8 00:39:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

does anyone have his phone number?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct  8 00:43:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

→ personals

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 04:58:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I met melg!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 04:59:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One fewer zephyr person whose real life existence I can't directly
attest to. "I wonder how many are left"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct  8 05:17:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Conclusions from today:
1) I am certainly not wrong to postpone grad school for now.
2) I would certainly not be wrong to want to revisit that decision,
   especially in terms of "can I get into grad school later" and "will it
   take longer than I'm willing to spend." (Not that I'd be sad spending
   8 years of my life at any point in grad school)
3) Other than "grad school in a few years", I have no idea what I want
   to do with my life. Especially now.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct  8 05:19:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

4) Apparently I have too much grad school angst on my class.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct  8 13:38:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pondering "Spending 2 years doing something you don't want to do in
the hopes that it will help you want to do something you don't really
want to do, seems strange.".

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct  8 13:41:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> "Spending seven years so that you can convince a bunch of irrelevant
> and wrong people that they are wrong is not a good life decision"

So, this would take more than seven years. Honestly, if I decided to care
about the why-does-the-world-value-Ph.D.s plot, that would be the rest
of my life _once_ I have a Ph.D. Grad school itself would just be for
fun.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:17:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is ORCLOSE (remove this file when it's closed) interesting/useful?

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:25:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 29cae11 Blackfin arch: add a cheesy install target <nelhage>

Does an unlink() on an open file get translated into a sillyrename +
that, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:28:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't see an FD_RCLOSE or somesuch fcntl, although that would
vaguely make sense. ORCLOSE is an option to the open request

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:29:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In tangentially-related news, cloning a kernel over the hotel wifi may
not be the best plan

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:29:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 994adcc [ARM] 4051/1: S3C24XX: clean includes in S3C2440 and S3C2442 support <nelhage>

I mean, I might want to use that for temp files, but I'm not sure
offhand if that's really worth a flag.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:30:47 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> cloning a kernel over the hotel wifi
Isn't there a way to ask git to get only the most recent packs and not
the whole history?

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:31:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It would also make more sense if it didn't show up in the filesystem
and so the only reference was the open filehandle, but as far as I can
tell, it does show up until you close the file descriptor.

Excuse me, "clunk" the file descriptor

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:31:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

achernya: Yeah, maybe that's the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: 9p.d
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:33:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there a good reason this doesn't work?
geofft@leveret:~/src$ git archive
--remote=git://github.com/penberg/linux-kvm.git HEAD 
fatal: git archive: protocol error

Class: geofft Instance: 9p.d
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:33:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2e44188 swapoff: scan ptes preemptibly <nelhage>

iirc git:// doesn't support git-archive. I'm not sure if there's a
good reason for that.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p.d
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:34:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9c9ba34 update checkpatch.pl to version 0.18 <nelhage>

but if that's what you want, github has an option to download a tgz

Class: geofft Instance: 9p.d
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:34:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Good enough for me.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:38:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does.... does qemu-kvm implement 9P.2000L in a single giant C file?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:41:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Should I optimize for my day job being close to things I'd like to do
in my spare time (so that I do them anyway or get familiarity with
them anyway) or far from them (so that I feel like doing them in my
spare time)?

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Sat Oct  8 14:45:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a07ee86 [IA64] Ensure that machvec is set up takes place before serial console <nelhage>

seems likely

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:55:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> lunch -> SF

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:55:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Barring any evening plans arising, I'd like to spend a fair part of
the evening tooling... what's a good coffeeshop?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:56:34 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Voltage.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:56:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A bit far. (Also I've never actually liked Voltage)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:57:23 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Starbucks

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:58:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I question your definition of "Good"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 15:58:56 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

It has tables, coffee, and internet.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 16:09:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

it only has free internet for like 2 hours

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:27:53 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fanboys to the left of me! Fanboys to the right of me! <aatharuv>

If you're near the Mission, I recommend Summit SF around 19th and
Valencia though it has moderately loud music playing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:28:34 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unconnected node. <aatharuv>

(I don't know how it is in the evening, though in the day on the weekends,
it's a reasonable tooling/coding place.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:32:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

4barrel is good

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:33:40 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Delurk and get a free postcard! <aatharuv>

Ritual is another Mission coffee shop you mighgt have heard of , but
it doesn't actually have good coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:34:04 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Disregard him, Ritual has among the best coffee, though apparently
there are differences of opinion on this. n.n

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:34:49 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

[ok to be pedantic i dont drink coffee, just espresso]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:35:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

[so their coffee could very well suck]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:35:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"espresso is a form of coffee"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:35:23 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah, that's an opinion, i've heard it both ways

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:35:49 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(I agree that it is coffee)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct  8 17:35:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(But I've been corrected in the past by others, so *shrug*)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:13:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Someone wants me for their startup based on finding my 6.857 project
pitch in my -/Public?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:13:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do not understand this world

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:13:42 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are they an MIT startup?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:13:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Who is this?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:16:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:18:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm looking forward to fifty years from now when "startup" is as
obsolete a word as, say, "trust"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:24:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

"trust" as in "I trust you", or as in "mumble mumble board of
trustees mumble"?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:25:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the latter. It's a type of company that anti-trust legislation was
intended to weaken.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:25:22 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

The other day I was sitting in 56-1xx and a random guy
walked in to the room to ask where he would find developers
for a startup he was launching. I sent him to building 32.
This was made more humorous by the fact that I was meeting
with a cofounder of another startup discussing the
difficulties of recruiting a good team. He's from Babson,
so I got to use it as an object lesson in the opportunities
available to MIT students.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:28:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Why do you want the word "startup" to be obsolete?  (Do you imagine the
word being obsolete because there are more or fewer of the things it
describes?)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:36:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because the name stops being sufficientlyj descriptive.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:40:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Trusts are still alive and well!  I <3 trust law. The reason that you
hear less about trusts is that now corporations can own the stock of other
companies, which was not possible previously.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 21:43:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Terms like "company" and "department" aren't very
descriptive but stick around. I do look forward to a
greater share of economic activity being initiated by
"startups", but that's unlikely to make the word go away.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 22:55:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that's what I'm hoping "startup" will turn into.
Like, "oh, you're working for a _corporation_? Cool" is silly

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 22:57:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar. <ageng>

This is already sort of my feeling, perhaps since around MIT it
sounded like everybody and their little dog too spends a little time
working at a startup.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 22:57:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, speaking of little dogs. MokaFive has the most adorable tiny puppy

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct  8 22:57:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

"Yeah, we're pooling money to go on an expedition to the new world!"

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:49:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder how many consecutively-numbered classes one can take.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:50:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Can you pull off 6.002 through 6.007 in a single term without
conflicts?)

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:50:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Or 6.033 through 6.035?)

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:50:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

One can pull off 002, 004, 005. I'm not sure if 003 and 006 are
possible.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:51:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, but that's just two consecutive classes, which is easy. :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:52:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

\o/ screen 4.1.0pre

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:52:23 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Looking at the current academic schedule, and my current calendar, one
can add 003 if you punt/reschedule 005 recitation.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:52:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

/o\ upstream is now GPLv3

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:52:42 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But 006 conflicts with 002.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:53:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

007 conflicts with 004.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:53:05 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So, 4.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:53:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That did not sound like an exhaustive search to me.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:53:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We've established a lower bound.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:53:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"At least 4."

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:54:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, I'm i-mixing

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:54:58 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I wonder if 6.045-6.050 is possible?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:55:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, obviously not, half are spring only and the other half are fall
only.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:55:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

While we're on the vague subject of grad school angst, it bothers me
that there are signs on the highway "Stanford Univ - Next Exit" for
the one exit thereto, and even one sign for "Carnegie Mellon
University" (for their campus over here), but for the like three
exits to Google, the highway signers use this repeated and obvious
euphemism of "Amphitheater Parkway"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:56:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is Stanford cool enough to be labeled on the highway but Google
not? (Stanford's private, so "one's an educational institution and
one's a profit-seeking company" is the only interesting difference)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:57:27 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are there any highway signs for corporations? Generally I have only
seen public parks and educational institutions and emergency
services.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:57:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

(stark) I'm prety sure the former.

Class: geofft Instance: life-optimize
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:58:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

Since, whatever your job is, it won't be /exactly/ what you want to do,
so you can explore those avenues and have the benefit of thinking about a
related area simultaneously.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:58:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

because you can actually walk into Stanford but probably not Google?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:58:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Without knowing anyone there? While technically true, I'm not sure
that's relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:59:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There's also the whole "the average person might want to find a
University", most people don't need specific signs for their jobs.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 01:59:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As a random off the highway, you're not _supposed_ to crash lectures
or hang out in lounges or such, even if there aren't locks and NDAs
like Google has.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:00:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You're welcome to walk around and take pictures of the university as a
tourist attraction, but you can walk onto the grass around Google's
buildings as easily as the grass around any university's.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:04:22 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

i,i Design an algorithm to find the most number of consecutively
numbered MIT courses that can be taken...

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:04:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Tangent: there are these adorable giant statues-or-something of an
Android mascot dude, froyo, gingerbread, etc. outside one building, I
failed to take pictures)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:05:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Does Google regularly have events open to the public community? Because
universities do.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:05:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I guess you have a point there

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:05:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Well companies should do more of that"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:06:15 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Join Google, tell them that, get your highway sign, ???, Profit.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:07:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Universities also have things like libraries and gyms which are often
available for use by the public.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:08:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

I feel like the university "campus" is a much older notion than a
corporate "campus"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:09:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ISTR hearing you can't get into Widener without being a Harvard
student?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:11:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, we now return to your regularly scheduled grad school angst:
I feel like I've been looking at deciding what to do now with the
overarching theme of "what will be best for me so that I can go back
to school in anywhere from 3 to 10 years". This feels questionable.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:12:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I feel like I've evaluated "will I like the work", "will I like
the place", and "will I like the area" as much as I can for any of the
places I've interviewed, and have failed to conclude anything more
precise than a flat "yes"

Class: geofft Instance: life.d
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:16:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

As an MIT student, you can get a library card that has reciprocal
privileges to access Widener. This is new-ish (last couple of years).

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:18:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if Google (or equivalent) has Asian tourists.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:18:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The smart money is on "yes", followed by "obviously", and "duh".

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:19:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: life.d
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:19:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

== mherdeg
And in fact you effectively need to for some classes.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:20:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... why, if I Google 'Boston', do I not get the Wikipedia article for
the city? (I do get the Wikipedia article for the band, halfway down
the page)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:20:17 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'd go on a touristy visit to Google. Therefore, there must exist
Asian Tourists.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But the Asian tourists at MIT are (afaict) unlicensed/unapproved by
MIT, and unlike the Infinite, you can't get indoors at Google (forall
Google in the set of tech companies) without an access card or
similar.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 02:24:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And given NDA concerns, it seems not actually profitable to license
Asian tourists and care about the risk of some of them speaking
English.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 03:23:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, the Shoreline Amphitheatre is a major concert venue. So...it's not
really a euphamism

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 03:39:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess, but there are separate signs for "Shoreline Amphitheatre" and
"Amphitheatre Parkway"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 04:35:24 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

There does seem to be some lag. Redmond, WA has a "Northrup Way" and
of course Boeing Airfield, but the freeway's Microsoft exits include
"NE 40th St" and its Expedia exits include "4th Ave".

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sun Oct  9 12:35:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, after Novell laid off the AppArmor folks, Microsoft hired the
lead developer to work on UAC. "Good job, Novell"

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sun Oct  9 12:36:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9796140-39.html
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michael_howard/archive/2008/01/17/crispin-cowan-joins-the-windows-security-team.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 13:21:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> Palo Alto

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 13:22:01 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

You mean Northup way?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 13:23:05 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

(how is it relevant?)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 15:38:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

systemd
No Child Left Behind

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 15:48:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What is this I don't even.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 15:51:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I see what you did there.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:32:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay, someone gets my stupid jokes

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:33:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I mean, I got it, I'm mostly going wat as to how you came up with it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:33:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Online for a bit from a cafe in Palo Alto. Will probably migrate to
another cafe in two hours, and then probably back to the hotel instead
of cafe-chasing at that hour.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:33:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I got it too, then tried to come up with something about zombies, then
got distracted by my HASS reading.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:34:44 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

(stark) Huh, "Northup Way" is named after the Norhup family, not
Northrup Grumman.
http://thesledgehammer.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/is-it-northup-way-or-northrup-way-take-your-pick/

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:35:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

An e-mail to 6.858-staff had a linebreak between "no child" and
"processes"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:43:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Met up with gdb and price for lunch. I think I'd be happy living in
Palo Alto. San Francisco is amazing, but it has the "don't want to
live on the moon" property for me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:43:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(from the Sesame Street song)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:44:21 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

What is this Sesame Street song?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:47:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I'd like to visit the moon
On a rocketship high in the air
Yes, I'd like to visit the moon
But I don't think I'd like to live there
Though I'd like to look down on the Earth from above
I would miss all the places and people above
So although I might like it for one afternoon
I don't want to live on the moon

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 19:47:47 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:00:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is "napping with someone" not a euphemism?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:01:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

for...more than cuddling?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:01:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

By analogy with "sleeping with someone". e.g., for 20 minutes during
the day on a couch, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:02:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'm pretty sure it's still "sleeping with" even if no sleep is
involved.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:03:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, sure, but if it's not overnight, shouldn't it be "napping with",
even if no nap is involved either?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:04:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Do people still call it "sleeping with" even if it is, say,
hanging from the coatrack rather than on a bed?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:05:06 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

"Hanging from the coatrack" ...
...
...
wtf?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:05:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Its from Thank You for Smoking, which is a great movie that you should
all watch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:05:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh look, this cafe just closed. Oops.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:06:10 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

"but it still has wifi, and that's what's important."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:10:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "hello hello zephyr you called I can't hear a thing / 'cause I've got logging on and AFS is haaaang-ing" - oremanj <pbaranay>

Does the "living on the moon" property still matter if you plan on
leaving for academia in 5-10 years anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:14:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

5-10 years is not a trivial amount of time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:16:52 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

unasked for advice: 
Don't play life (post-college) like you're trying to win.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct  9 20:25:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==glasgall. Also, this is just for answering, if I decide to be in the
Bay Area, where within it do I want to live

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  9 22:10:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What was your 857 project?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  9 22:20:18 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Yeah, I can see why that would be startup bait. Should've added the
words "mobile" and "local" to the pitch and you would be drowning in
VC money.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Oct  9 22:20:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

I know this from news.ycombinator.com, so it must be true.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:45:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. From what little I've seen, I'd be happy living in Palo Alto.
Potentially happier than I am in Cambridge.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:45:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

2. Stanford is _so pretty_ and _so big_, why can't MIT be like that.
Like you could fit fifteen MITs on just the open spaces

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:47:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The project pitch was http://ldpreload.com/p/6.857-proposal.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:48:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

mherdeg, you really think VCs would pay for it? This sounds like the
least monetizable thing ever.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:48:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

because then everyone would need bikes to get around.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:49:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you wouldn't really be able to walk right from MIT into the real
world.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:49:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

or you would need a car.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:51:54 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Noone wants to destroy the world.  Pragmatically speaking, it's where all of our stuff comes from. <eichin>

_so big_... because if you build anything over 2
or 3 stories it falls down

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:52:50 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: we all live in a bowl of soylent green <eichin>

_so pretty_... go to UC Santa Cruz some time :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:53:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's not that bad. Google says it's a mile from the front entrance to
El Camino, on the other side of which is something that looks like a
real world

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:53:35 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's just than an @i(immense army of robots descending on the city) might draw unwanted attention. <eichin>

"and MIT undergrads never get as far as harvard square anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:54:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I do...then again I live in Random...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:56:08 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've trekked out to the Costco in Everett, does that count?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:56:08 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Scientific test number 1: poke it. <eichin>

"most undergrads never get as far as Random" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:56:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(For reference, since I'm probably not the only person without a good
sense of this, 1 mile is Senior House to Westgate.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 00:56:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, it's a way prettier 1 mile, unless you walk alongside the
Charles.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:04:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: this is a standards rich environment <eichin>

yeah, erfworld, a softer world, freakangels (which I got in hardcopy)
are on my list too.  I'll add Dr. McNinja, oh and dresdencodak which
updates rarely but beautifully.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:04:57 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you think it hurts as much for them as it does for us? <eichin>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:07:57 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

My reaction to visiting Stanford was largely "why is everything so far
apart?"  And "why do I have to walk past so many palm trees to get
anywhere?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:08:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:08:23 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I present Caltech as evidence that you can have a pretty, Californian
campus that's actually as dense as MIT.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:09:10 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

MIT's problem isn't "everything's too dense", it's poor architectural
choices and somewhat greater limitation on what plants are reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:11:09 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Well, also, the practically useful choice to connect all the buildings
does probably detract from the outside appearances of things.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:12:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I suspect that if I ever do end up spending significant time at
Stanford (like as a student) I'll probably get annoyed at it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:14:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I liked Caltech's stupid computer science building! Way more practical
than MIT's stupid computer science building.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:14:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

There's a reason why the bike ownership rate at Stanford is like 150%.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:14:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahaha. Yes, there are ... a lot of people biking. And bike-sized
roads with bike-sized lanes throughout campus where no cars can go.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:15:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Palo Alto is pretty cool. Why's it better than Cambridge?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:16:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes, Stanford is way more pretty than MIT. :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:17:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

For size, part of it is probably that Stanford was founded ~earlier
compared to the other stuff around it. CA had been ~settled for like
50 years when Stanford happened. MA had been settled for like two
hundred years when MIT happened.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:17:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, that sounds kinda lame.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:18:18 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guess it's also ~designed as "what can we do to make it hard for
the network to monetize the user's data"...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:19:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Also, the Stanfords had huge tracts of land before they even thought
about starting a school.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:19:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, that's what surprises me about anyone caring about it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:21:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

OUt there? Really?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:21:26 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Heh.  I didn't actually think of Caltech's stupid computer science
building as horribly stupid, other than [redacted] and what is that
balcony for, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:22:19 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Our stupidest-internal-structure buildings were probably actually the
old undergrad dorms from 1931, which are among the older buildings on
campus.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:22:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. By "front entrance" you mean the oval, and by "the other side"
you mean downtown Palo Alto?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:23:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I suspect Cambridge has substantially more and denser, but I'm not
totally sure.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:23:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I don't really take useful advantage of Cambridge/Boston.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:25:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Oh. By "front entrance" you mean the oval, and by "the other side"
> you mean downtown Palo Alto?

I guess

Class: geofft Instance: else.total-prnf
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:34:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Richard Stallman : Free Software Song :: Richard Dawkins : ???

Class: geofft Instance: else.total-prnf
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:35:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if he can sing better. "Statistically, the answer is probably
yes."

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:38:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

mitoccupyboston@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:40:36 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

My reaction to visiting Standford was "augh, so bright" and then later
"AUGH, sun headache, get me the hell out of here" and promptly left
ASAP on standby on an earlier flight than scheduled ><;;

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:40:40 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

*Stanford

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:41:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:47:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

My dad is susceptible to bright sun to the point where he's gotten
sunburns *in his eyeball*, usually after driving which tends to force
looking in the same direction for a long time.  But he managed to get
through four years at Stanford.  So I think there are solutions to that
particular problem.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:48:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Sunglasses, for example.  Some sunglasses are more effective at this
than others.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:49:17 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Fiat justitia ruat coelum - @i(Let Justice Prevail Though the Heavens May Fall.) <eichin>

ouch, that's harsh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:50:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, I'd never have guessed that was something that can happen.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:51:09 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information wants to be anthropomorphized. <eichin>

is there treatment for that, or do you just suffer for a while?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:52:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You just suffer for a while.  Maybe systemic painkillers?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:52:58 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I've got a paint gun here.  I even have a silencer so no one can hear it. <eichin>

(most of the topical sunburn treatments, when
combined with eyes, seem like they'd be "and now you have two problems")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 01:59:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(geofft, I think the fact that you're baffled by this problem has
something to do with your eyes being much darker-colored than
catherio's, or my dad's)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:00:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I guess I also never care about sunburn.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:01:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(on my normal skin)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:01:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... as opposed to your extra skin?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:01:57 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Rocks fall, everyone dies. <eichin>

(business trips to California are where I learned
to actually use sunblock reliably.  I need decent sunglasses *here*
though, california wasn't that much worse...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:02:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As oopsed to the inside of my eyeball.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:02:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And I never wear sunglasses

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:03:19 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: superiority in the air, at sea, on land, under the sea, in space, and in the electromagnetic spectrum. <eichin>

turns out you can also do vision therapy exercises
to improve your response to sudden brightness.  That was useful.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:04:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Huh, that's fascinating.

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:05:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, DNA Lounge is a real thing, not just something irrelevant you
find on jwz's website when you're trying to find things about
Netscape history? Confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:06:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

um yeah :)

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:06:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"It's actually kinda big here."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:06:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Sam will kill him if he tries anything. <eichin>

basically going from indoors to summer-outdoors used to cause me physical pain. 
exercises fixed that, over the course of a few months.

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:06:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I guess I also had the "Huh, El Camino Real is a real thing, not
just something punned on in the Jargon File? Confusing." realization
a few days ago)

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:06:50 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

not my crowd perse, but a fun party some nights.

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:07:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

next, go to sandhill road and take pictures...

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:07:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

("Huh, there is an actual areas called the Mission in which there are
places that sell burritos?")

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:07:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

("Huh, there's a _bay_? Oh now I get why it's called the Bay Area")

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:08:32 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yes!!  Do go to el faro on 20th and ... harrison i think ---
birthplace of the original super burrito!  (according to wikipedia)

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:13:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I had a friend whose mind was blown when he found out I was from
there. Because, y'know, it's where all the magic technology elves
live! It's practically a mythical location! People there have
/kids/?!?!?

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Mon Oct 10 02:14:33 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I believe I am a special agent of God. (T/F) <eichin>

:-) I spent a couple of weeks a year out there
through the late 90's and still never quite *believed* it was real 

Class: geofft Instance: elses.juxta/prnf
Time: Mon Oct 10 10:39:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is dark. You are likely to save money with a Gruepon.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.juxta/prnf
Time: Mon Oct 10 10:41:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

It is dark.  You are likely to eat some nice Grueyere.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.juxta/prnf
Time: Mon Oct 10 10:43:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mmm.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 10:46:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Still need to watch @i(Firefly)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 10:49:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's pretty good fun.

Class: geofft Instance: wearxory
Time: Mon Oct 10 11:56:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My khakis are getting a little stained having worn them for a few
days. What makes more sense for an interview?
x) black slacks, collared shirt
y) jeans, polo
(Other options include "jeans, collared shirt", which I don't think I
can pull off, "slacks, polo", which will presumably be dumb, and "wear
the khakis anyway")

Class: geofft Instance: wearxory
Time: Mon Oct 10 11:59:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh actually "try washing the stains on the khakis" might be the right
answer. It's like iced coffee and such, it's not fatal

Class: geofft Instance: fdo
Time: Mon Oct 10 12:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I continue to be annoyed at the freedesktop disk crash

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:41:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Got an early lunch with ktchang at Stanford. Now in a random cafe in
SF.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:42:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I fel like if I move here I'm going to need to buy a Mac, or at least
a case cover for my laptop that has a glowing white apple

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, if there's anyone in the area I should say hi to and failed
to yet, I may have a few minutes at 5 or 5:30, but I'm planning to
get to the airport around 7.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:43:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "zephyr fads I liked, partial list: partial lists" - codetaku <pbaranay>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:43:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Martin glances up halfway. “Thank God we have portable alien space brains now.” (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

There's this picture somewhere on the internet of a guy sitting next
to a bunch of Mac laptop users with an actual apple with-bite-out
taped to the back of his laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:44:59 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

http://www.procrastinatetomorrow.com/the-cheapest-apple-laptop-evar/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:46:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Best accidentally extra-apropos instance ever.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So if I wanted to learn all about X (this is actually for personal
curiosity more than anything at the moment), preferably by reading a
100-page PDF or so, where should I look?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If you figure it out, let me know

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I've mostly taken to brain-dumping co-workers as necessary

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"ask davidben"

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:47:52 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Garfinkel et al., chapter 7

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:48:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Depending on what you're doing, ICCCM (especially section 4) and EWMH

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:48:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I want lower-level than that.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:49:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, you mean X the codebase, not X the protocol? Can't help you there

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:49:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And then there's all the modern font stuff and RENDER and DAMAGE and
COMPOSITE and...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:49:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The protocol, but the protocol and not the conventions. Like the stuff
I need to be able to understand ==glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:50:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The "X.org protocol headers" section of http://cgit.freedesktop.org/ is
on my short list of resources

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:50:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like I could probably attempt to write a window manager and
I'd know where to start looking. I feel like I probably could not
attempt to write an X server.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:50:47 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

You should not write an x server. Writing a window manager
is of questionable utility, but would teach you the kinds
of things that writing a shell teaches you about unix.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:51:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

You should actually write a framework for writing window
managers, ideally in javascript using v8. It's about time
someone did that again.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:51:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could definitely write a shell. I don't think that would immediately
give me any idea of how to write a kernel.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:51:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Compositing window managers, even.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:51:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Two snarks come to mind:
 (a) I thought that was called gnome-shell
 (b) I think I've seen that for Python

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

 (c) I thought that was called Xmonad

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:13 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Or sawfish when I was a kid.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:22 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Writing a window manager won't teach you how to write an X
server either.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Aha - http://code.google.com/p/partiwm/source/browse/#hg%2Fwimpiggy

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(That's the infrastructure code that xpra uses)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:52:52 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

If you know how to write a kernel, you could probably write
an X server. The reason to leran X is to learn from the
mistakes.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:55:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Parti and xpra look interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:55:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That project fascinates me slightly.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 16:56:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Its utility is limited by that of X forwarding, but seems to be a
useful add-on on top of that

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:04:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do xlib calls translate into X protocol bytes?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:05:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There's not necessarily a direct translation

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:05:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Especially for extensions that have gone through rounds of updates

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:07:45 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of All Who Threaten It. <eichin>

"loosely".  there's a lot of effort in the protocol
to not require round trips, that is hidden by the library
(ie. CreateWindow is a one-way call)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:09:00 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Gliese 581 c <eichin>

(and there are a bunch of functions which don't do
anything over the wire, they just interpret the big wad of data that
XOpenDisplay gets back)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:30:42 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's High-Speed Marine Craft) <eichin>

(my perspective on X is a little odd, though, in that Volume 0
is the only book I've really used in depth)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 17:31:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And then there's xcb, which tries to hew closer to the X wire
protocol.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:01:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> Still need to watch Firefly

Oh hey, welcome to the club!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:01:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(it was a club of one as far as I knew until now)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:01:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

watch Sherlock first!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:01:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

(not obsessed, I swear <_< >_>)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:02:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It /would/ take much less time to watch Sherlock, and it /is/ awfully
good.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:02:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

and if you watch it now, you'll be able to watch the next season when it comes
out!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:03:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

When is the next season airing?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:04:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

the first episode is being screened somewhere in London early December ... so I
assume it will hit the Internet shortly after that and the US in early 2012?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:05:44 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ooh. relatively soon.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:07:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

yeah. I think it's been significantly delayed from their original plans though -
supposedly they had hoped to get it out in September or something?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:14:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[stark] I also still need to watch Firefly.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:14:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"You could come to NY and watch it on my TV"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:15:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I have much firefly yet to watch, though I've seen the first few
episodes.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:16:07 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

MITSFS will be showing it at the next couple Seldon showings...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:23:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: efcc2da powerpc/of-device-tree: Factor MTD physmap bindings out of booting-without-of <nelhage>

Huh, is there actually less Sherlock than Firefly?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:24:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

it's three 90 minute episodes

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:24:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6340e7b [PATCH] radeonfb: Fix panel detection on some laptops <nelhage>

Oh, I had assumed there was an actual season or something.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:25:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

nope, the first season was only those three episodes, and the second will be
three more

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Oct 10 18:25:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

I suspect there won't be more after that, but I'm not sure

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:47:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Flight delayed until past midnight (local time). Exciting

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:49:13 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Hmm, ua788?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:50:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I hope I'm not allergic to the meal I'm eating right now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:53:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, JetBlue something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:53:53 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Wow, SFO is not happy right now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:54:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Having driven here, I don't blame them.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:55:56 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Ah. Your inbound aircraft will be this severely delayed JFK-SFO
flight, which was supposed to be landing at 8:51.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU647/history/20111010/2140Z/KJFK/KSFO

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:56:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Hope you get a fast turnaround and the crew is allowed to work the
return flight.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:56:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

Looks like there's weather delays of on average over 2 hours for
incoming flights: http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:58:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I should use the time to tool

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 10 22:59:17 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

In principle there's space on the 11 p.m. American Airlines nonstop
and JetBlue recently inked an interline agreement with AA that lets
them push passengers there in case of irregular operations.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:20:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The 16-bit coordinate limit is still present, right? Nobody's dealt
with that in any awesome way?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:22:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Keyboards are the greatest variable between different manufacturers'
workstations. If you want your program to be portable, you should be
particularly conservative here."

orly

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:22:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Other than "we'll have a chance to fix all these things in Wayland",
not that I'm aware of. Same thing with the client limit.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:23:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12

This document is fairly entertaining.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:23:22 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a black pudding is simply a brown pudding gone bad.
 <rnjacobs>

Now that everyone's using USB keyboards, it's not so awful.
But for some of the bad old days, you could play with xkeycaps.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:28:17 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

That said ... "32768 pixels at 100dpi is 8.3 meters." which sounds ...
stupifying huge, still, to me. Am I missing something?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:38:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

That is pretty huge. But who said we were going to pretend 100dpi
would the standard forever?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:39:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...oh. Well, I guess they didn't mention that. But 100dpi is pretty
terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:41:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The non-kitten item bites!
 <rnjacobs>

It is! And I'd love to be done with it so we can throw out subpixel rendering
like the crap that it is. But I don't think it's going to come any time soon
because of how HDTV killed the resolution race.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:55:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Am I missing something?
Well, you can't have a stupidly large virtual desktop. :-) I can't
think of any serious applications for this, but you could imagine some
non-serious ones involving mapping lots of heads onto the same
space...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:56:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I think it was worse than that. I recall some nuisances that some
older Intel cards only allowed framebuffers up to 2048x2048 which
made XRandR sad.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Oct 10 23:59:34 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

@i{video} cards have some stupid limitations.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:00:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: No easy fighting with a heavy load!
 <rnjacobs>

e.g. the original VGA had a maximum logical resolution of 2048x1024, my matrox
G450 only increased the maximum resolution per output to 2048x2048

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:01:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"If the hostname is a host machine name and a single colon (:)
separates the hostname and display number, XOpenDisplay() connects
using TCP streams. If the hostname is not specified, Xlib uses
whatever it believes is the fastest transport. If the hostname is a
host machine name and a double colon (::) separates the hostname and
display number, XOpenDisplay() connects using DECnet."

<3

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:01:47 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that naming your cat Garfield will make you more attractive.
 <rnjacobs>

(So i assume the maximum virtual line width is 4k, but haven't read that
section of the leaked hardware doc spec)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:02:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Someone was working on some weird thing to shatter pixmaps across
multiple physical allocations on the card, but I think that was
stalled for being really hard. The per-CRTC pixmap stuff in RandR 1.4
might help here?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:04:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. In about two or three weeks, I'll know where I'm living in
February.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:11:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the difference between, oh, ServerVendor and XServerVendor?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:13:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I'd guess the latter is for when you really need a function and not a
macro. But I'm just guessing.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:14:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why does the macro exist?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:15:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

mumble function calls are expensive mumble?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.cs
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:16:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm thinking of defining "systems" as "any problem which gets either
better or worse when you throw more UNIX at it". Everything that
doesn't really notice when you throw more UNIX at it is something else
(theory, programming languages, AI, HCI, etc. etc.).

Class: geofft Instance: eip.cs
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:17:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like HCI tends to get worse when you throw more UNIX at it...

Class: geofft Instance: eip.cs
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:17:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Maybe it's a systems problem then"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.cs
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:18:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Then again, I hear there are a lot of people who really like
a flavor BSD for its interface.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:18:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But... what does it do? (Is it reading this data out of the local
Display or Screen struct, instead of going over the network?)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:19:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Pulling a field out of the Display struct probably.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:19:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

#define ServerVendor(dpy)       (((_XPrivDisplay)dpy)->vendor)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:24:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do I want to read about Xt?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:25:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

"Ooh! If you do, do you want to help me figure out what's up with
nspluginwrapper's GTK/Xt bridge and acroread?"

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:30:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> ForgetGravity
Cee Lo Green meets @i(Wicked)?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:30:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, do those two songs have the same chords?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:47:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why doesn't this do anything?

#include <X11/Xlib.h>
#include <unistd.h>

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
        Display *d = XOpenDisplay(NULL);
        Window w = XCreateWindow(d, DefaultRootWindow(d), 0, 0, 300, 300, 5, CopyFromParent, InputOutput, CopyFromParent, 0, NULL);
        XMapWindow(d, w);
        sleep(5);
}

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:48:00 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Starfury, a PPG and a Gund. <eichin>

you're not in syncmode, you didn't flush, and if it
did, you can't see it :-)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"In English?"

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:48:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Also your window manager hates you"

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:48:35 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The assembled hordes of Ghenghis Khan couldn't get through that door, and believe me, they've tried... <eichin>

start with the easy one: XFlush(d); before the sleep

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:48:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oooh!

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:49:10 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: She left a note for you, but I tore it up. <eichin>

X buffers aggressively, and you didn't go into an
*input* loop that would auto flush.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:49:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I'll keep reading.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:49:59 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: So that you understand how serious I am...  I'm going to say this in English <eichin>

you can "cheat" by XSync(d, 1); which makes everything
implicitly flush - if you want to learn *why* X doesn't do that :-) 

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:51:02 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: faith based product management <eichin>

(actually I'd bet that without the flush, the Create
didn't send anything to the server either :-)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:51:57 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cambridge *is* The Village <eichin>

but unless you're playing around with tunnelling or the
protocol itself, you don't care about that [yet].

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:53:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I eventually am. At this point I just feel incompetent and I'm
trying to fix that

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:55:12 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Kool-aid Oriented Architecture <eichin>

X is pretty arcane (and 80's-ish.)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:55:54 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The National Geographic Big Book Of Kitty Pictures <eichin>

(and yet, *so* much better than the window systems of it's day...)

you probably want GCs next, and maybe DrawPoints, if you want to
scribble in the window...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:56:40 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

For a variety of hilarious raisins, my graphics card doesn't support randr at
all any more, so I had to write a shim that used the older XF86VidMode
extension calls to do the nearest approximation of xrandr(1).

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:56:59 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Penrhyndeudraeth <eichin>

you might also use XNextEvent instead of sleep next
time (and just ^C when done)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:57:09 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: UID="ADMIN" PASS="DEFAULT" CMD="sleep, 600sec, noprompt, fnord" <eichin>

(you won't get any events, again "yet")

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 00:58:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,690,039. Issued March 30, 2010; 5th of 6. (continuation of a 1999 filing of a 1998 provisional) <eichin>

... and they worked? special.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:08:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Iiiii don't care about color spaces

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:09:34 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do you need?  Goats.  Lots of goats. <eichin>

(starking) xwininfo has -english and -metric :-)
(though it was mostly because we had various bugs, mostly in zephyr,
that lead to jumbo windows, and the question of "ok, what floor is the
bottom of that window on?" came up...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sleeeeeepy. where is my plane. I want a plane.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:21:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

are you delayed?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:27:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

until past midnight

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:28:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... think I'm shaving the wrong yak.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:29:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is stuff I should know, but not right now.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Oct 11 01:29:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

colorspaces are really interesting :p :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:04:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Aww, I'm missing all the fun."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:05:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

"Well, get yer ass back to Cambridge"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:05:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Be over in ... 8 hours?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:08:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does justin.tv work on Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:13:00 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

flash viewer?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:13:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kind of have flash. I hope it's using flash and not gnash.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:15:25 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Apparently you are missing all the occupy boston fun.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:18:00 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Start up Occupy Palo Alto!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:18:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, we're pulling off Occupy Gate A12 fairly successfully.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:18:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"We are the 99%. Once we find the 1%, namely the crew and the plane,
we can get on our way"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:18:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahahahah

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:18:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:19:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think the plane may be more than 1% on its own, at least by mass.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:19:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"1% of the objects in flight use 99% of the energy"?

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:28:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there a useful utility that will estimate bandwidth per FD for
me? It seems pretty obvious how to write this, but I don't really feel
like doing so if it exists already

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:29:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Can you use pv?

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:34:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. No, it's an fd opened by the application
2. I don't think that's the metric I want. I want bytes divided by
time spent in a write(), not bytes per wall clock time.

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:35:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(WAYRTTD: quickly determine if chasing "why is my app slow" via "why
is X forwarding slow" is productive)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:36:25 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: fliegerabwehrkanone <eichin>

are you forwarding via ssh, or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:36:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  I'd strace -ewrite -T -o somewhere and then write a perl one-liner.
(Maybe that's what you had in mind.)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:36:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

TCP

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:37:03 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A small and shiny remote with lots of colorful buttons. <eichin>

did you remember to turn off slowstart?

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:37:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's slow in steady state.

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:37:26 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Military Training and Simulation Systems) <eichin>

(Xlib itself and SSH when x-forwarding do that explicitly, now anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:37:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

price: Oh hey, I forgot about the capital T. Yeah, that does what I
want, I'd only remembered lowercase t

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:38:39 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Serpukhov-15 <eichin>

so?  turn on TCP_NODELAY anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:38:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Always happy to help solve a problem with strace. =)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:39:16 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Relationship Advice) <eichin>

("start" doesn't mean what you think it does.)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:39:29 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Numerical Recipes in Intercal <eichin>

(in both directions)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:39:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, right. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:40:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear sir, I do not understand your group

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:41:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

wow

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:41:48 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'm not proud... or tired... <eichin>

(that bit I mentioned about X avoiding round-trip
delays? Runs smack into this.  Especially things like "send me enough
info to use that font" or "draw this stuff")

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace.d
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:42:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I suspect there won't be a huge correlation between the general app
performance and X forwarding these days. Everything's rendered
client-side in cairo and you can use MIT-SHM and whatnot. None of
that works well when forwarding. And hopefully the stack eventually
matures to the point that efficient apps can use DRI.

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace.d
Time: Tue Oct 11 02:44:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Also, I think the big problem on the Linux desktop is stuff like
blocking the UI on disk IO. Chromium feels smooth not because of V8,
but because they are absolutely anal about this.

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace.d
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:13:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think you're assuming things that don't apply in my use case. This
is thesis stuff; I'm currently thinking about "why is xpdf in my VM
vaguely choppy". If I disable SysV shm via the sysctl, there's no
noticeable degradation of performance in either xpdf on my desktop or
xpdf on Xephyr on my desktop, or at least not enough to be culpable.
(Also /proc/pid/maps implies that xpdf doesn't uses shm.)

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace.d
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:13:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In a sign of how much I've been working on this in the last several
months, though, I appear not to have sufficient git clones, and this
airport wireless is rather questionable

Class: geofft Instance: ptrace.d
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:18:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So maybe I'll just go poke at NLKT for a bit, so that I don't have to
trust Nelson with my southbridges

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:19:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That looks like a plane?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:22:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So apparently this thing is secretly documented in Texinfo and not the
man page?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:22:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like, did you know that you can pass -hda fat:/path/to/dir and it'll
fake up a block device with a FAT partition?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:24:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also kvm's x86 emulator (in the kernel half) is forked from Xen? what

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:45:21 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Whoa... 1:49 a.m. departure? Maybe the crew really did time out.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:55:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of the flight attendants is calling sick, so we're waiting to
steal another from a flight arriving at 1:20.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Tue Oct 11 03:58:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is both cute and dumb that NLKT structures itself like git

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 04:05:21 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Haha, JetBlue is totally gonna send you a $25 coupon to say we're
sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 04:06:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> you
ITYM Google

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 11 04:09:06 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Not as long as they have your e-mail address on file somewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:17:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

drivers/firmware/google

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:17:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

chromebook?

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:18:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, it's for Google's custom-built servers

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:18:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"wat" seems right.

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:18:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

config GOOGLE_FIRMWARE
        bool "Google Firmware Drivers"
        depends on X86
        default n
        help
          These firmware drivers are used by Google's servers.  They
are
          only useful if you are working directly on one of their
          proprietary servers.  If in doubt, say "N".

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:19:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it's as good an argument as any for "no really, you can get
your code in-tree"

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:19:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm actually surprised that's open source. I'd have expected
gigabyte/whoever makes the mobos these days to throw a fit.

Class: geofft Instance: linux.wat
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:24:02 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: In Greek myth, the craftsman Daedalus invented human flight so a group of Minotaurs would stop teasing him about it. <asedeno>

Hah. Also, no comment.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Oct 11 21:52:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.debian.org/security/CVE-certificate.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:14:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow the NOTES file sucks

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:15:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(where by "sucks", I mean "I'm sure it was accurate as of two months
before Athena 10 came into existence")

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:34:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmm... Butternut squash tempeh curry?

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:34:53 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:35:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Fine put two of my favorite foods together.

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:35:36 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm sure Geoff would be happy to give you some if you came by.

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:35:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

tempeh

Class: geofft Instance: kitchen
Time: Tue Oct 11 22:39:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==kaduk

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 11 23:08:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, the Weighted Companion Cube is not actually all that helpful on
a plane (but definitely better than nothing). Certainly it works much
better as a pillow on, like, a couch or a bed

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:12:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Touchstone
Archstone

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:15:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm skeptical of transitivity of job preference. I think that, if I
decided I wanted to work at [redacted_0], working at [redacted_1] is
obviously better, and that if I wanted to work at [redacted_1],
working at [redacted_2] is obviously better, but I can't convince
myself that there's any good reason why I should pick [redacted_2]
over [redacted_0] without an argument based on the existence of
[redacted_1].

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:15:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

"Turns out, human preferences are irrational"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:16:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I am defined by what I am, not what I'm not." - pbaranay <pbaranay>

I agree they need not be transitive, but if you're indifferent
between 0 and 2 in the direct comparison, shouldn't 0 < 1 be a point
in favor of choosing 2?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:16:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                        d-(x_X <mats_a>

or just self-referential

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:17:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

write a script to repeatedly ask you your pairwise preferences a bunch
of times to do log(n) sort and then run that a bunch of times?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:17:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

mumble mumble Arrow's theorem mumble

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:18:10 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: I am a Toaster <phurst>

arrow's theorem allows for the existence of a dictator, unless you're
suggesting geofft is a democracy

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:19:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I remember in Jr. high I tried to model myself as a democracy with a
parliament.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:22:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

pbaranay: I mean, the argument is roughly "If I was going to work on
foo type of thing at [redacted_0], I might as well work on foo' type
of thing at [redacted_1]. [redacted_0] is in Bazland. [redacted_1]
and [redacted_2] are both in Quuxland, and if I'm going to be in
Quuxland, I'd rather work on the problems [redacted_2] is going to
have me working on. That said, I think I'd prefer to be in Bazland
than Quuxland."

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:23:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So apparently between 0 and 1, the work overrides the location, but
between 0 and 2, the location overrides the work

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:39:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Honestly, if redacted... 1? 2? I can't keep track any more...
were in Cambridge, I suspect it'd be the obvious choice.

I'm actually surprised I'm not talking to more places that are in
Cambridge

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:43:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig! <kyoki>

gah, the suspense!

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:43:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hi. :)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:58:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I _really_ dislike that I have places ranging from "gave me a
verbal offer a week ago" to "telling me something this week" to
"potentially telling me something this week" to "probably wants to
talk to me more".

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Oct 12 00:59:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Especially since the timing is, if anything, anticorrelated with
preference. (But not strongly in either direction.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 12 09:00:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"the sword of Godric Schwendner"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 12 09:24:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hackover (n.): how you feel the morning after coding too much

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 12 09:24:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ITYM "I'm doing Coding and I'm still awake."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 12 09:26:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:09:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

don't wanna wake up and go to class

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:09:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm just mostly worried when sleep is gonna catch up with me. I slept
way less than I'd expect over the last week or so

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:24:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't tell if I have no appetite for coffee today or if the way I
used this Starbucks Via was dumb

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:26:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What did you do to the Via?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:27:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

put it in a glass wkith sugar and a bit of water, microwave 40
seconds, fill the glass with cold milk

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:27:28 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Microwave the water first.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:27:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently my cold brew got moldy :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:27:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Pinky and the Baranay" - ismith <pbaranay>

ttants: cold brew got moldy, cold brew got Voldy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:39:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

caffeine levels have been restored to normal

Class: geofft Instance: sebastians.q
Time: Wed Oct 12 11:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

employee 1: "It's always so cold in here!"
employee 2: *points to sandwich ingredients* "You work above a refrigerator"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:15:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Stop spelling iFRAME like that or I'll go release the iFrame 4G Touch

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:17:06 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Wouldn't that just be a wall-mounted iPad?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:17:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

iFrame is already a video format by Apple >.>

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:17:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

davidben: No, it's an HTML tag that makes an iPad come out of your
screen

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:18:59 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Hehe. I was thinking an Apple version of those weird digital picture
frame things.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 12:40:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At some point I should pay my Stanford parking ticket

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:01:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Switched to xmonad. Now have three windows on my laptop's display, one
open to xmonad.hs, one open to <X11/keysymdef.h>, and one open to
zephyr, and no windows open on my external display.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:01:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think this was a productivity win

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:01:26 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: World Without Man <phurst>

but now your window manager is functional!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:02:25 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Zap yourself and see what happens...
 <rnjacobs>

The downside to programmatic windowmanagers: Endless configuration

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:02:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I... actually haven't touched my xmonad config since I got it working
in spring of '09.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:03:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe zephyr knows this. I just want it to run xterm instead of
x-terminal-emulator (gnome-terminal), without disrupting what
x-terminal-emulator is because I usually use GNOME.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:04:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I do this without actually messing with the keys parameter to
defaultConfig?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:04:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

terminal = xterm in your parameter to de-oh.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:04:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Wait, in my parameter to?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:04:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://xmonad.org/xmonad-docs/xmonad-contrib/XMonad-Doc-Configuring.html
<-- first example

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:06:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha, thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:06:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Next question, where did my xresources go

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:06:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "THE PIZZOCALYPSE IS HERE" - jlwfnord <pbaranay>

I xate them.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:06:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My xdefaults 
lose

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:08:46 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Is this Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:08:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:09:20 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Is your file named .xresources or .Xresources?  I think Debian startx
cares.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:09:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I literally mean "where did my xresources go", as in "are they on my
dead hard drive"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:09:56 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:10:00 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

That's a bit different.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:10:01 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Oops

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:12:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Enh, I can live with the defaults. Back to being productive.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:30:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kind of hate kvm(1) some days.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:30:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(where "some days" are "the days I use it")

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:33:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Are we talking about qemu-kvm or NLKT here?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:33:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The former.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:34:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

NLKT's syntax is its own brand of special

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:34:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is rather poorly documented and has occasional surprises, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:37:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

too big to fail
too legit to quit

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:38:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Unclear that those are not the same thing

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:39:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can you voluntarily pay more tax than you're required to?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:39:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Making a bank CEO publically perform 2 Legit, complete with the hand
movements, would totally be worth giving them billions of taxpayer
dollars.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:39:54 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Apples. Oranges. Pears. Plums. Kumquats. Tangerines. Lemons. Limes. Avocado. Tomato. Banana. Papaya. Guava. <asedeno>

Would they have to be wearing golden parachute pants?

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:39:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

My understanding is you can't pay more _tax_, but you can actually
give the treasury extra money.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:40:00 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:40:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

They'll just give it back.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:41:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

(extra taxes, that is)

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:41:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:42:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

I think ==jdreed.  Though states might do their own thing; e.g. MA
will let you check a box to voluntarily pay...5.85% instead of 5.3%?
Something like that.  

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:43:08 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm disappointed that the gifts can only be money.  I would love to
give the Treasury, like, a hot cocoa sampler, or one of those giant
tubs of popcorn.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:43:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brandon Hall. <stum>

wine of the month club memebership?

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:43:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

I hear they call that "lobbying"

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 13:43:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:02:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is... there a good way to use a stored password?

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:02:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I would much prefer not to use ssh keys or any of the usual right
answers here)

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:02:47 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

WARYTTD?

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:02:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Log in to a machine with a password, _with a password_

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:04:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Use expect.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:04:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I know Jon suggested it on the unclass but it is actually the most
reasonable answer here.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:05:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That was what I was going to try. I was hoping there was something
better...

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:06:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

Do you need a shell on the machine, or just to run
something? One of the python libraries might do it.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:07:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"flip out and use libssh" is an option but not really a _better_ one
than expect.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:08:17 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We'll meet again... don't know where, don't know when... but we'll meet again, some sunny day! <eichin>

I'd say 'use paramiko' but we just wrapped ssh in
pexpect for that and never got around to switching to paramiko

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:08:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7dd6953 i7core_edac: Add more information about each active dimm <nelhage>

Paramiko is not a terrible option

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:09:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: fa3c2a4f OMAP3: PM: handle PER/NEON/CORE in idle <nelhage>

(But also not a great one)

Class: geofft Instance: jhawk.mq
Time: Wed Oct 12 14:44:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> I should point out to you explicitly a typo in Sec. 2(3),
> "perform" for "perform." Hopefully that gets fixed.

Class: geofft Instance: jhawk.mq
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:04:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:09:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I held "watch TV shows or movies that several of us have failed to
watch" nights at my apartment occasionally, would people come? It's
kind of a 20-minute walk from campus

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:10:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If I planned far enough ahead, maybe.  I can also supply much of the
content, I bet :-)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:11:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 10f024f Remove unused variable <nelhage>

I'd probably show occasionally.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:12:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'd probably come/

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:18:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i ASA Piazzzza

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:20:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if the "students tell other students what the problem set
means" advantage scales to "student groups tell other student groups
what the recruitment rules mean". (You know, assuming the former
exists at all.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:22:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

i,i My student government has recruitment rules that go over several
weeks. One group wrote in on Piazza to complain that it interfered
with a big event at their fraternity. Before I could answer the
question, several other students wrote in to tell the complaining
student to stop whining, that there's plenty of time for events and
publicity if they only prepare in advance, that all students have
conflicts during the term, and why are they special?, etc. In the
past, I've always had to respond myself, drawing a fine line between
being understanding and telling the group to be reasonable. With
Piazza the complaining student's peers did this work for me. 

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:22:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:23:34 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:23:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That... required impressively few changes.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:25:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That's a short bike ride.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:25:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That it is. (It's also on SafeRide)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:27:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Boston University West. <stum>

do you think there's any hope in contacting piazza/leiserson and
saying, no actually, it wasn't a fraternity?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:28:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, what was it?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:28:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Englewood Avenue. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

steer roast

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:28:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:30:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston University East. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

and another student wrote in "we also have a thing at my fraternity,
and i'm not bitching about the take home. suck it up."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:30:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

so it is actually substantially wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Oct 12 15:50:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Well, I hear you can e-mail Pooja with all your feedback. :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 17:00:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't understand GNOME

Class: geofft Instance: mail.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 12 17:26:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Debian hasn't released Wheezy, IS&T recommends to WAIT

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 19:19:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/staticanalysis.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Oct 12 20:32:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

Anyone have geofft's phone?

Class: geofft Instance: phone
Time: Wed Oct 12 20:32:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

yes --> personals

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:19:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"they have approved you to go to the next step" is ... the most
circuitous way I've heard to say "we want you to work for us".

Although maybe they do in fact mean exactly that, and I don't have an
offer yet. I'm so confused.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:40:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/QfMEq.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:41:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/cHdbE.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:42:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsvamk7sGP1qb5gkjo1_400.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want a credit card

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

so get one

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you can probably get one from the bank where you have a checking
account

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"I can't research this for you"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you could just get an MITFCU one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, that sounds like the easy approach.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 86ed40b sparc: unify sections.h <nelhage>

The amazon.com one is not a terrible choice. Or just one from your
bank.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Having one at your bank is really convenient for bill pay.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:47:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: fd1db0a kbuild: disable modpost warnings for linkonce sections <nelhage>

Don't be a jbarnold, just pick one that's not totally shitty.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:48:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Trade <kchen>

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/711457/
(except it's not loading for me right now)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:48:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Hawes Street. <stum>

the amazon.com seems like a good deal if you shop there a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:48:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Spin Chain Exchange The Gears <kchen>

(Although my autocomplete suggests that's the thread I mean)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:48:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

Ah, it loaded, and it is the right thread.  Although if you've never
had a credit card, I have no idea what cards you might be eligible
for.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:49:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

How did you rent a car?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:49:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

your bank probably has either a student card or similar.  it will
probably have a low limit, but you can get it bumped up after a few
months.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:49:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

With great difficulty.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:50:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They ran a credit check (or so they claimed), and then accepted my
debit card. I offered a check (which I expected them not to take) and
cash (which I expected them to take)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:50:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My bank is MITFCU

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:50:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

MITFCU definitely has cards

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:50:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, for the first two days? "With Google's credit card."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:51:12 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Circle To A Wave <kchen>

fwiw, I've heard that MITFCU always gives really low credit limits,
although I've never had a credit card with them, so I can't speak from
personal experience.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:51:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was just under 18 freshman year and ended up with a debit card, and
have been too lazy to deal since.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:51:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If my credit limit is not smaller than the actual amount of cash in
my checking account, then I don't care. I have no use for credit

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:51:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

http://bit.ly/pFYaoO

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:52:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That...'s a mix, right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:52:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Those Facing Touch 1/4 <kchen>

I think that might be the case.  (I think I've heard $500 or $750 or
something like that.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:53:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think that places that are unhappy with my debit card will be
unhappy with it

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:53:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. I've totally bought larger items via my debit card in credit-card
mode (like my laptops)... I guess if I keep my debit card, I don't
care.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:54:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I maintain that you want credit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:54:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chestnut Hill. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

==lizdenys. building credit is useful. also, cash back!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:54:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I largely suspect that what I want to do is open _a_ credit card and
forget about it indefinitely, so that if I decide to do something dumb
like start a family and get a house via a mortgage, I won't hate my
life, but other than that I don't actually want to use the card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:54:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

cash back sounds like effort, also temptation.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:54:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Eliot. <stum>

i'm not sure that having a completely dormant credit card builds any
non-trivial amount of credit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It doesn't quite work that way, though. You need to use the credit card
to build credit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

not a mix, it should be a link to the MITFCU credit card app

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Split Counter Rotate 1/4 <kchen>

It's not always effort.  Mine just automatically gets deposited into
my bank account each month, although that card is being discontinued.
(It was already discontinued to new customers a year or two ago.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Karen, it's a link to milk orders.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

goddamnit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

"well, you know what I tried to send you"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:55:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah, right. Now I remember that last time I thought about this I
considered scripting something with Stripe

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:56:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

http://bit.ly/aNKCTz

ok here.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:56:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hocus Pocus, Centers 1 & 1/2 <kchen>

(If it weren't being discontinued and were open to new customers, I'd
have a clear recommendation.  Instead, I need to figure out what
replacement card I want too.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:56:41 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

There's the Fidelity 2% Amex.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:56:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh. I hate this system so much, I wish I could not play.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:57:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What did we determine last time I actually needed credit for
and couldn't just deal with via cash? I could probably take everything
I earn next year past my TA stipend and put it in a savings account.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:58:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I think we determined you may need it to get a lease.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:59:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

it's also a lot easier to reserve hotels and flights and stuff

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 22:59:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've never had issue with that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:00:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Certainly it's easier to use an airline's 24-hour free cancellations
if you're not spending real money -- the refund arrives within a
billing cycle but not instantly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:03:54 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unpacking <aatharuv>

Some car rental places don't accept debit cards -- only credit cards.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:04:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

It's my understanding that credit cards have much better protection
against fraudulent charges than debit cards, under federal law.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:04:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's possibly the other good reason to use one. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:17:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Most cards have annual fees, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:18:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

No. Don't get a credit card with an annual fee.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:19:04 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Most non-shitty cards don't have annual fees. A card-with-fee is of little
value other than maybe improving your credit enough to get you a no-fee card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:19:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I pay my bill each month, I don't care about an APR?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:19:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run <kchen>

Correct.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:19:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

http://www.hulu.com/watch/1389/saturday-night-live-dont-buy-stuff

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:19:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

haha <3

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Hawes Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

find a card with no annual fee and grace period on repayment.

then, of that set, find the most attractive incentive program/shiniest
features. that was how i did it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: fc50148 Undo bogon from the -dj merge. <nelhage>

Seriously, find the first credit card that offers 1% back and no
annual fees, and apply for it, and then forget about it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did MITFCU stop offering MasterCards? Or did they only ever do that
for debit and not for credit? (Not that I care.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Trade <kchen>

I would expect every card to have a grace period (except for things
like ash advances).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2c94eb8 ext4: Allow rename to create more than EXT4_LINK_MAX subdirectories <nelhage>

You could have done that five times over in the time this
conversation took place.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

I expect you probably qualify for some no-fee cards, though my
information is pre-credit-crunch so I may be out of date.  

I certainly got a no-fee card with no credit history as an
18-year-old.  
==stum

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:20:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

is there really a reason to get a Mastercard over Visa?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:21:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm just curious. This doesn't actually affect my decision

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:21:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Couples Circulate <kchen>

I think Zipcar claims Visa usually denies car insurance claims or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:21:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

It's difficult to find a place in the U.S. that accepts Mastercard and not
Visa.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:21:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Newton Center. <stum>

costco?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:22:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ferris Wheel, Centers Sweep 1/4 <kchen>

( http://www.zipcar.com/help/generalinfo#creditcard-claims )

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:22:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

I thought that was Sam's Club?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:22:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought Sam's doesn't take MasterCard.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:22:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(When I was little I remember my dad having a Discover card for
use basically only at Sam's.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:23:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Also, you really want a credit card for fraud protection.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:23:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

I thought Costco in the U.S. was AmEx only (surely a side effect of
the deal including their branded Costco Amex product).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:23:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Back of the Hill. <stum>

sam's club takes discover. oh, right, Costco is AmEx

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:23:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Liz: Are there credit cards that don't offer fraud protection?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:24:54 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

There are cards which offer superior levels of protection over what's
federally mandated.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:25:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Lead Right <kchen>

I thought most cards did that.  (At least, waiving the $50 thing.  But
maybe there are other things.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:25:53 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

However, it's all better than debit cards, where in the worst cases the only
recourse is "well, sucks to be you."

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:26:38 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Wow, was there really an "Electronic Fund Transfer Act" in 1968?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:27:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

(Reading through
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-1350.html to take a
look at the federal maximum liability of $50 as long as you report
fraud within 60 days of getting your statement, and also the
requirement that as soon as you report that your card's been
compromised you have no liability.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:28:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

The extent of the federal law protection against fraud on credit
cards is really pretty amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:41:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What are "points"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:42:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

generally you get O(1) point per dollar you spend and you can redeem
them for things, like more money

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 12 23:42:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Touch 1/4 & Cross <kchen>

Rewards that aren't cash that you can use to redeem for other things,
depending on the program, including, in some cases, cash.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:07:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I'm unconvinced I spend enough money to make the mental effort of
finding a credit card that gives cash back at all worth it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:08:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

For my spending patterns, signup bonuses have been more effective than
cash back for the past year or two.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:09:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That said, apparently I want to look at either the American Express
Blue Cash Everyday (1%, 2% on gas and department stores, 3% on groceries)
or the Capital One Cash Credit Card (1%, plus half of that at the end
of the year), I think, from the info in mherdeg's first fatwallet
link.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:10:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Yeah, it's too bad they killed the Citi MTVu card (targeted at college
students, super easy to get, 5 "points" back per dollar on restaurants
and bookstores, which includes every first-party amazon.com purchase).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:11:13 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I guess the "Citi Forward" card is pretty much the same product.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:18:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I made a 5-cent credit card purchase at a Burger King??

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:23:17 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain Down The Line <kchen>

Wow.  Smaller than my smallest credit card purchase ($0.35 for
broccoli at Star).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:23:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Some statistics:
- I've spent about $7.5K this year to date in purchases
- My biggest transaction was my laptop, at $400 + tax
- My median transaction was $8 at Verde's
- I've made 474 transactions

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:24:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I paid $90 to some place called "Big Daddy's" in Brighton?

Oh, I bet this was for a hackathon or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:26:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

We have ordered from Big Daddy's for at least one hackathon.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:27:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if I ever got that reimbursed. I usually suck at this sort of
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:27:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(the last two debathon's receipts are sitting in my drawer)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:28:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess "I can't convice myself to care about a single $90 purchase",
whether or not I _should_ (rationally, value of my time, how much
money I actually have, etc. etc.), is a sign that I probably shouldn't
care about a card that would get me about $90 cash back in a year.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:28:37 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

"A 2% card would get you $180/year"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:28:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, also "oops, I'm slowly having less money" is another interesting
statistic, I guess :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:29:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Also, you might find that your spending increases significantly if you
get a real job

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:29:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You think so?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:30:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't know what I'd spend money _on_. Maybe if I get a car, I could
get more fast food, which might honestly lower the average value of my
meal (given that I eat too much at like Sebastian's simply 'cause it's
on my way)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:31:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

The barrier to buying stuff like books, clothes, bike maintenance, and
random shit for your apartment (just to name a few things I'd like to
buy) goes down when you have a steady income.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:36:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, my checking account went to $30 just before my stipend came in
and I failed to notice. Ooops.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 00:43:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also huh, apparently my keyboard (from Amazon) showed up as a
WITHDRAW instead of a PURCHASE. So I guess that's actually my highest
purchase

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 03:23:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I got the Citi Forward like a year ago, which has no fees and is like
3--5% back on restaurants and bookstores. I guess it wasn't my first
credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Oct 13 03:24:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Also, you should get a credit card while you're still a student.
"Student but no credit" can get starter credit. "...no credit" is
harder.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 13 10:19:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
++, on all 3 of those

Class: geofft Instance: intarwebs
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:32:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What... is... JBoss?

Class: geofft Instance: intarwebs
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:32:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Tomcat with more junk bolted on"

Class: geofft Instance: intarwebs
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:32:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm mostly curious because this thing imports JBoss:
http://blog.heroku.com/archives/2011/10/3/scala/

Class: geofft Instance: intarwebs
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:33:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, that's not jboss, it's an embedded web server thingy that the
jboss people also developed, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: intarwebs
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:33:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also com.twitter

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:36:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I understand why people hate git"
How do you use this thing?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:36:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a merge conflict and want to get rid of it?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:45:57 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I don't actually see a lot of git hate.  I'm looking forward to it
when git really takes over the world.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:46:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sure, because people have actually used it before.
hg revert eventually solved my problem. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:47:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f0166e5 ieee802154: move headers out of extra directory <nelhage>

Forget everything you know about git, and try to remember what you
know of svn.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:47:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ef5d4cf2 [SCTP]: Flush fragment queue when exiting partial delivery. <nelhage>

hg is what happens if you tried to write git so tha it made sense for
svn users.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:48:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7c4dac4 USB: convert the usb-skeleton.c driver to work with the latest USB core changes. <nelhage>

git is what happens if you try to write hg so that it would maximally
confuse svn users.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:48:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 587e729 mac80211: convert to net_device_ops <nelhage>

This is the only difference of note, everything else follows.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:48:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's quite possibly the best description of each of those that I've
ever heard.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:48:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah, cool.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:55:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I keep forgetting that types have types

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:55:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Yo dawg, we heard you liked type theory, so..."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:56:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, someone wanted to hear from me by noon Pacific today

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:56:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Let me reply to that e-mail.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Oct 13 14:56:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A friend of mine once wrote a more-or-less-Lisp interpreter in Haskell
types.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct 13 15:00:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Replied.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:15:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hate Linux so much

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:15:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: caf8132 [POWERPC] Merge iSeries i/o operations with the rest <nelhage>

==. Maybe we should just port everything we care about to Solaris.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:15:59 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Does this have to do with the registrar?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:15:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What about FreeBSD?</kaduk>

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:16:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've been awfully tempted to play with OpenSolaris^WIndiana^WIllumos

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:16:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

^WJoyent

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:16:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:17:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Debian/Solaris sounds awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:17:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f43798c tun: Allow GSO using virtio_net_hdr <nelhage>

They've got KVM now, which is pretty neat.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:17:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Exactly

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:17:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b10d9f9 [XFRM]: Wake up km_waitq once per gc-run instead of once per state. <nelhage>

And I hear their dtrace actually works.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:17:56 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Fact: Space does not exist. <asedeno>

Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Actually, since Debian/kFreeBSD already exists, what are the odds
Debian/Solaris can be made to exist?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It exists

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:20 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Great. That's about as useful as a chocolate teapot. <eichin>

dpkg used to run on solaris :-)
(the earlier mirrors ran on "real" machines, which of course meant
 solaris, and it was useful to be able to run some of the package
 tools natively)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's what Nexenta is.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:17 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why are you not advocating for some RPM-based platform on sparc

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, fbsd is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not you too!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

jdreed: Because if I advocate for it, someone will expect me to make
it happen.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:53 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

you mean like (old) sparclinux?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:18:56 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hey, I hear you guys have a soda fridge in he-AAAAUUUGGGHHHH!!! <eichin>

oh, right, forgot about nexenta

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:19:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Honestly, I'm too lazy to switch my existing machines :P

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:19:20 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Kittens, Quality, and Design <eichin>

(last update jan 2010 - so everyone else forgot about it too :-)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:19:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

stella bl5 -a linerva
and be done

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:20:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, NexentaStor is apparently a real product with real enterprise
customers now

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:20:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I don't think bl5 wants our users AFSpooping on it"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:20:21 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

fine, cvp

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 17:21:10 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There is no overkill.  There is only "open fire" and "time to reload". <eichin>

"Power of OpenSolaris, with the usability of Linux"
(nexenta.org banner.) "..."

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:28:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no idea what's going on here, but Quentin's pulling out an
oscilloscope

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:28:23 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

noooooooooooooooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:29:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8ca646a [JFFS2] Fix sparse warning in nodemgmt.c <nelhage>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:29:29 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:29:39 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

What.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 19:30:04 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:03:28 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:36:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Let's try reenabling the TLB and see what happens

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:37:18 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Wait... did you actually disable the TLB?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:37:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Our new BIOS did

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:37:59 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It lets you *do* that?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:38:16 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

... *Why* would you *ever* want that?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:38:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13742

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:38:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because, secretly the TLB doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:38:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 833d846 x86: unify smp parts of system.h <nelhage>

There's a bit in %crN or something

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:39:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9a11b49 [PATCH] lockdep: better lock debugging <nelhage>

ah, it's an MSR

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:40:53 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Ah... ok. I suppose "stuff doesn't work" is a reasonable reason.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:41:20 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Although that does raise the question as to how a defective TLB got
past QC in the first place.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:41:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d4361b6 [PATCH] ppc64: Fix {pte,pmd}_free vs. hash_page race by relaying actual deallocation with RCU, from Ben Herrenschmidt <nelhage>

"Dude, have you looked at how complicated processors are these days?"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:41:58 2011 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There is that.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:42:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe we should switch Linerva to a processor we understand... i,i
Debathena Beta.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:42:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 35e71f9 xtensa: Fix architecture specific Kconfig <nelhage>

"""The processor operation to change the accessed or dirty bits
of a page translation table entry in the L2 from 0b to 1b may not
be atomic. A small window of time exists where other cached
operations may cause the stale page translation table entry to be
installed in the L3 before the modified copy is returned to the
L2. In addition, if a probe for this cache line occurs during
this window of time, the processor may not set the accessed or
dirty bit and may corrupt data for an unrelated cached
operation. The system may experience a machine check event
reporting an L3 protocol error has occurred. In this case, the
MC4 status register (MSR 0000_0410) will be equal to
B2000000_000B0C0F or BA000000_000B0C0F. The MC4 address
register (MSR 0000_0412) will be equal to 26h."""

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:47:31 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Linerva on JOS? Sounds like a reasonable final project.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:56:57 2011 Host: MEDIA1E.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Basically, stale data can end up in the L3 cache, is the way I read
it.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:57:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it can cause an MCE

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 20:58:05 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I thought linerva's processors were dual-cores, and therefore not
affected by the TLB bug?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:04:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really wish I knew where I picked up the habit of running 'sync'
three times from

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:05:07 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's UNIX lore, everyone does it.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:05:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

(I think quentin and I had a discussion about this once, and he said
there are some reasonable filesystems that need sync twice to do their
work, and the third is for good measure)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:07:08 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

For shits and giggles,
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2011-September/012568.html

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:08:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What. The. Heck?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:12:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d2950d8 [PATCH] USB stv680.c: remove an unused function <nelhage>

I've heard a possibly-apocryphal story that on some systems, 'sync'
would only initiate a sync, not actually block until it completed.
And then the second 'sync' would block until the first one was done.

Not sure why the third, then :)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:13:18 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The most poisonous fish in the world is the orange ruffy. Everything but its eyes are made of a deadly poison. The ruffy's eyes are composed of a less harmful, deadly poison. <asedeno>

My understanding was that in the time it would take you to type sync
three times, it would actually be done syncing. Sync, enter, up,
enter, up, enter was NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:13:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, if it's that, you know Linux's writeback time is five seconds,
so just count.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:14:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

Snuffleupagus Snuffleupagus Snuffleupagus Snuffleupagus Snuffleupagus

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:14:43 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Hot water freezes quicker than cold water. <asedeno>

I just trust my filesystem unless I'm about to do something stupid,
and then I'll hit the magic-sysrq sync and wait a moment.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:15:39 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

How long is "a moment"?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:16:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The thread I liked (IIRC) notes that modern filesystems to a bunch of
activity in the background, so you can never be entirely sure ...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:16:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e1b86d8 igb: Use device_set_wakeup_enable <nelhage>

Also "Typing sync three times should be enough time for you to
realize that oh-shit this wasn't actually the prompt I meant to be
shutting down at"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:17:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I *think* I have been saved by "shutdown -p now" not being valid on
linux, once.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Oct 13 22:48:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

depmod
derpmod

Class: geofft Instance: connectbot
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:12:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is it stuck on "Generating key pair..."?

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:16:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

x) sleep now, tell myself I'll wake up early, fail
y) stay awake now, tell myself I'll tool, fail

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:16:44 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "It is not a Baker thing. It is a stupid thing." - ekate (on Dining stupidity) <pbaranay>

x

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:16:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You have such high hopes.

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:17:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I set realistic expectations for myself!

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:17:14 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

x

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:18:33 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

z), review scripts credit-card

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:19:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Riiight

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:19:02 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

? Is this a plot involving stripe?

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Fri Oct 14 01:19:51 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

also, this reminds me that I should do the plumbing
that is left to get placecall working on joybubbles.
do I actually need access to captain-crunch for that,
because I think that might get tied up in politics.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:15:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you haven't tried Debian Squeeze, it is an amazingly
well-put-together and usable operating system. I see no reason to ever
bother using Ubuntu again

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:15:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What brings this on?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:15:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Everyone complaining about Oneiric"

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:16:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...except for the batshit crazy init system

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:17:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:17:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's a makefile, how is that not crazy? systemd needs to take over
everything.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:17:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. It works way better than Ubuntu's
2. insserv is automatically disabled if it's about to not work

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:18:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

systemd exists in wheezy and up. But, honestly, as a user I never
interact with my init system

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:19:08 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Are there any complaints about Oneiric besides the deferred complaint
about Natty because it takes away the classic desktop?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:19:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I mbasically think "look, my computer boots up fast"

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:20:14 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft: irrelevant. systemd gives control beyond what an init system
normally does, and does so in a clean way. The benefits to
software-writers is immense.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:20:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, sure, but I'm not a software writer, I'm a user. :)

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:21:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

With my software writer hat, I'm looking forward to systemd. With my
user hat, as long as my software continues to get written by someone
else, I don't care

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:21:33 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And as a user you get to say "look, ma, my desktop just worked! and
when I went to print, that worked too!"

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:21:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Both of those do!

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:22:05 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Except your CUPS probably got started by init, for no reason.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:22:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So? Printing works.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:22:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But why lug around a cups server if you don't print? systemd  lets it
get started when you need it.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:22:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why should I care?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:22:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not bothered by the existence of random services on my machine as
long as it boots fast, and it does.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:23:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And my point is that, compared to Oneiric, this isn't a regression

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:23:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"What's a CUPS server?"

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:25:09 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I _am_ bothered by random services. Exploitable surface, uses RAM,
uses CPU.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:25:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you're noticing those things as an end user of a desktop machine,
you're doing something wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:26:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(If your cupsd is using any CPU, or if you don't have enough swap
that RAM is used, or if it's listening on the network, you've
misconfigured something.)

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:26:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm not referring to cupsd anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:26:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...how does systemd reduce the attack surface of random services?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:27:29 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

My claim is that systemd's as-needed startup will allow rarely used
services to stay off until needed.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:27:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I call bullshit. How am I going to exploit a rarely used service that
doesn't involve first doing the thing that would cause systemd to spawn
it?

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:27:59 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, and not loading kernel modules for network drivers until they're
requiested allows that, too.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:28:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I still have no idea how "my attack surface is different" translates
to a different user experience

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:28:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Presumably via "my machine didn't get haxx0red"

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:29:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, but if and when my machine gets haxx0red, I won't know how, and
anyway, it's Linux, so it won't.

Class: geofft Instance: psa
Time: Fri Oct 14 14:29:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, out of the distros that have switched to systemd or have it as
an option, all of them are better than Oneiric.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Oct 14 16:52:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Let's build a dependently typed social media iPhone app!!!1111

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:49:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Working on 32-G8 during this thread is amusing

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:50:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

"And all the Haskell weenies came out of the woodwork"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:50:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are some people yelling about monads in the corner

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:52:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

SIPB Code Search!

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:52:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder how hard this problem is.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:52:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I anygit!

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:53:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I thought we de-racked anygit and put it in the free server pule.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 17:53:53 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

pile, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:00:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 369e757 [POWERPC] Rework EXC_LEVEL_EXCEPTION_PROLOG code <nelhage>

I was running the numbers on this. I suspect a dedicated individual
could *a* version in, I dunno, a month?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:08:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Can you...reasonably index for regexes or anything? It seems like this
is mostly a comparatively straightforward matter of sharding out the
codebases and just having enough hardware/storage

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:10:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8d20d0a spi_bfin: remove useless fault path <nelhage>

Basically

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:11:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Are there good, well-known APIs for handling result ranking?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:11:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

APIs and/or approaches

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:11:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c9e5993 [PATCH] USB scanner driver: report back return codes <nelhage>

You can partially index if the regex contains any nontrivial
substrings that must match. In the general case, you just need to
throw CPU at it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:12:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 64b3d6d USB: ohci-pnx4008: I2C cleanups and fixes <nelhage>

For v0, only index github, and sort by # of followers of the project
it came from, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:14:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Given that constraint, and the standard use case of "htf do I use this
API", is Github search insufficient?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:15:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:18:11 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: free as in - oh shiny thing <eichin>

hmm, I wonder how big github actually is.
https://github.com/blog/530-how-we-made-github-fast
is interesting but doesn't quite spell it out

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:18:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2ccdd1e [ARM] 4394/1: ARMv7: Add the TLB range operations <nelhage>

Does github do full-text search of all its repos?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:18:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:18:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://github.com/search

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:18:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f64955e [LLC]: Use skb_reset_mac_header in llc_mac_hdr_init <nelhage>

Hm, that does solve many of the same problems.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:19:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, just using normal Google for function names works fairly well

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:20:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0ddd3e7 [POWERPC] Always call cede in pseries dedicated idle loop <nelhage>

Hm, my first attempt shows why that is close but not quite there :)

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:20:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d808ad9 [NET] SCTP: Fix whitespace errors. <nelhage>

(Tried to search for "RE2::", and it drops the :: because it has a
word index)

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:20:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 477a507 [PATCH] sn: Error devenable not used - delete defs <nelhage>

And yeah, I could look for specific functions inside RE2, but lame :)

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:21:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

It also strips characters such that I can't usefully search for
"= stupid_undocumented_api_call ("

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:21:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ie, that matches
yet_another_stupid_undocumented_api_call (

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Oct 14 18:23:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C} <eichin>

specific functions - yeah that's the kind of thing I meant
as "coping strategies"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 19:39:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mrrrr. Offers. "Now I have to decide what I'm doing"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 19:40:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Guys what should I do

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 19:40:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Drop out and join Stripe

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 19:41:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

sipb-usernames-starting-with-g-who-dropped-out-of-mit-to-join-stripe

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 19:41:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. I'm graduating in two months
2. So, uh, that's not completely off the table (but not a place I've
interviewed with)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 20:01:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

What're the options? I haven't been following that closely.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 14 20:07:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(-> personals)

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:20:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does set -e automatically turn off in a trap 0 handler, or is it
possible for bash to double-fault?

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:22:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... oh, the handler turns off but set -e stays on. That is
underuseful.

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:30:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... diff returns nonzero if the files are different? That's _dumb_

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:31:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Leads Start Wheel The Ocean The "K" <kchen>

If you're checking the error code of diff, in most cases, you're
probably checking to see if the files are the same.  (Or at least,
that's my experience.)

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:32:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Promenade Home <kchen>

(And so a non-zero exit code indicates a difference in the files and a
condition to error on.)

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:32:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I'm using set -e

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:32:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Which is like use strict for bash"

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Oct 14 21:53:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

set -u is more like use strict.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Oct 14 22:01:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You're supposed to iron ties?

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Oct 14 22:03:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

I have never in my life ironed a tie.
(Though I admittedly wear ties very rarely.)

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Oct 14 22:13:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have never in my life ironed a tie or heard of people ironing ties
before this moment.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:27:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The company that made KeyKOS... gave up its domain name... and it's
now being used by a ringtone sales website?

I guess that makes more sense than "the company that made KeyKOS
decided that OSes were boring and started selling ringtones instead".

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:28:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

What, don't you want your ringtone backed by a capabilities system?

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:33:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

I've found myself in situations where it seemed like a good idea to
iron a tie. It never helped much.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:57:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Oracle Unbreakable Internships"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:57:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"You sign the contract ... in blood"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:58:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Oracle Unbrkable RAM allocation"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:58:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Oracle Cbreakable Terminals"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:58:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... I think you're starting to push, Geoff...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 14 23:59:44 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

"I have updated the terms of the agreement without rebooting.
Pray I do not update them further."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:00:22 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

er, that was re 23:57

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:00:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

s/without rebooting/without resigning/?

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:12:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, when'd the door start saying "by Google"?

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:13:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... when the regulatory approval happened?

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:14:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Significantly before that

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:28:51 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: You will never go into space. <asedeno>

The front door at 141 Portland?

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:30:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: ita
Time: Sat Oct 15 00:31:59 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is incredibly handsome. <asedeno>

Logos throughout the building have been getting updates. I don't know
when the front door happened off hand. The reception desk logo changed
either this week or last week.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Oct 15 01:28:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.survivemitzombies.com/

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Oct 15 01:29:04 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea, I saw that like a month ago.
I emailed them that the car wasn't actually a good way to get out of
the city and they told me they also provide loans for motorcycles too.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Oct 15 01:57:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Forever, and always. <lapentab>

Although strange, I find some of mitfcu's advertisements kind of cute.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 15 12:33:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 15 12:34:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pondering going to campus now, or staying around home, doing laundry,
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: virtualization
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:13:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't believe that Wyse still exists and still sells the same sort
of product

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:15:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:16:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Tempting approaches:
- roll a d6
- get drunk and write e-mails to everyone everyone and see which
  offers I end up having accepted (and which offers haven't been
  revoked) once I'm sober

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:19:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I suspect I want to answer the question of how much I want to stay in
reasonable proximity to MIT

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:20:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Clearly zephyr will give me unbiased opinions"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:22:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The amount that my Debian is secretly Ubuntu is confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:23:09 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What. Did you pull PPAs?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:24:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~$ head /usr/share/doc/xorg/copyright 
Source Package: xorg
Debian/Ubuntu package author(s): Branden Robinson, Fabio M. Di Nitto,
Daniel
                                 Stone.

Canonical Ltd. copyright(s)/license(s):

Unless otherwise noted, all modifications and additions to X.Org found
in
this Ubuntu package bear the following copyright and license terms:

Copyright 2004-2005 Canonical Ltd.
geofft@leveret:~$ apt-cache policy xorg
xorg:
  Installed: 1:7.6+9
  Candidate: 1:7.6+9
  Version table:
 *** 1:7.6+9 0
        500 http://mirrors.mit.edu/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     1:7.5+8 0
        500 http://mirrors.mit.edu/debian/ stable/main amd64 Packages

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:25:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I am confused.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:26:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It turns out that the same people maintain stuff in both Debian and
Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Oct 15 15:26:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It's like RHEL and Fedora, but the release cycles are swapped"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 15 19:39:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> GBIS -> actually deal with grading and Debathena at some point?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sat Oct 15 21:10:48 2011 Host: TELEKINESIS.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

[stark] "You should instead increase your proximity to Chicago!"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:22:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a neighborhood of Palo Alto called "Professorville"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:22:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is this a real place, or a gmaps joke?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:22:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professorville
O_o

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:36:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also on the subject of the bay area, why is nothing on the other side
of I-280 colonized?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:46:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I forgive them. They have tentacles. - kaia
 <rnjacobs>

Mountains, iirc.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:48:00 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah, that's where the Peninsula's backbone is. On the other side is
like, pick-your-own berry farms and beaches.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:48:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And mountains are actually pointy and difficult over there.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:49:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: If you can't learn to do it well, learn to enjoy doing it badly.
 <rnjacobs>

It's not like all that many people actually live (in high density) @i{in} the
Appalachians either.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:52:08 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Except for the Morianians of Tennessee, who dug into the mountains in
1862 to avoid the war and built a pacefist underground civilization.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:54:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because colonization happens on well-connected waterways, and 280
doesn't really run along a waterway. There is civilization on the south
end of the peninsula - Pacifica, Half Moon Bay, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 15 22:54:45 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And eventually Santa Cruz, Monterey, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:05:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want a word to distinguish "we dropped a tarball" free software vs.
"we set up a public git tree and mailing list and bug tracker" free
software. I think the word also should distinguish OpenCourseWare and
{ai,ml,db}-class.org.

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:06:15 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: StreamBase is hiring engineers, ask me <tibbetts>

tytso's "organic" versus "inorganic" comes close.

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:06:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

cathedral vs. bazaar comes close as well

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:07:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm. That does more or less conjure the right image for the latter
example.

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:09:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The former to some extent, too. What you're describing is stronger than
ESR's terms, but it's certainly a logical extension of "development is
driven by a privileged few" vs. "anybody can contribute easily"

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:10:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: stupidity is not a supported service <eichin>

"2000's" vs "2010's" isn't what you're looking for, is it :-)

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:13:18 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's a one time thing.  It just happens alot. <eichin>

(after all, at this point "threw it up
on github" is easier, and gets you the tools; whether you respond to
them or not...)

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:13:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's really not true if, for instance, you're not using git to begin
with

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it allows two other independent interested people to deal with
each other's bug reports, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: multiple-contexts
Time: Sun Oct 16 00:44:59 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I've heard terms like "open development".

Class: geofft Instance: credit
Time: Sun Oct 16 01:08:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What do I put as my income?

Class: geofft Instance: credit
Time: Sun Oct 16 01:09:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just my stipend?

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Sun Oct 16 02:41:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> Can you...reasonably index for regexes or anything?

Starking, yes, and Google Code Search does.  Russ Cox wrote it, and says
he put a lot of cleverness into indexing effectively.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:52:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have like ~40 minutes free, and am pondering making food to last me
two or three days (via tupperwares brought to campus). What should I
make?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:56:23 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

pasta.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:56:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4ff62e1 [POWERPC] mpc82xx: Remove a bunch of cruft that duplicates generic functionality. <nelhage>

Pasta is an easy answer.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:57:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and?"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:57:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

Kiebasa, ground beef, zucchini, tomato sauce

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:58:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mmm, kielbasa.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:59:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think I have ground beef or zucchini?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 13:59:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

If you are not going out to buy stuff, we're a lot more constrained. What
do you have on hand.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:02:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I think the answer is to look in my fridge, find three things,
and toss them on top of pasta

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:02:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 412af97 ACPI: video: prevent NULL deref in acpi_get_pci_dev() <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:03:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7fea82a [PATCH] PPC64: Don't try to claim memory from OF at 1GB mark <nelhage>

If you have a jar of premade tomato sauce, that's probably a good
place to start, but it's not entirely required.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:13:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. Sausage, asparagus, and ... chopped onion and red pepper? frozen
leafy greans (collard/kale/mustard)?

I do have pasta sauces and stuff like parmesan

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:15:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sounds fine.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:15:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The asparagus will be a bit suboptimal reheated, but meh.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:15:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

Bell pepper goes great in pasta.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:16:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

Sausage depends on the type. Don't put breakfast sausage in your pasta.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:18:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is normal sausage

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:18:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can punt the asparagus for the "leafy greens".

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:19:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh wow, these things need more time to cook than I have ...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:19:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Stir fry!

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:20:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c484a50 [SCSI] iscsi_tcp: Change iscsi_sw_tcp_conn_restore_callbacks arguments <nelhage>

which things?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:20:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, 40 minutes is... not stunningly long? *shrug* I think I usually
anticipate sending like an hour.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:37:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, fortunately I have no hard time constraint.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:37:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a skillet with sausage and onion and red pepper, do I want to
toss pasta sauce and/or tomato sauce into this skillet?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:39:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There's a distinction?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:39:47 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:39:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"pasta sauce" = a thing you buy from the store made by Ragu, Newman's
Own, etc. Tomato sauce + spices + other interesting things

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:40:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The way I do my pasta, I would. OTOH, I'm eating it by going straight
from skillet to plate, rather than storing it in tupperware for days
first.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:44:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5d89002 [PATCH] USB: usbnet, cleanups and suspend/resume calls <nelhage>

Is this sausage already cooked? I think you probably want it to be
basically cooked before you add it to the pasta sauce.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:45:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, of course!  How are you going to brown it otherwise?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:51:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, it is.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:53:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"... got me thinking about just how reprehensible American Christians
make God out to be when they attribute their finding of a parking
spot to answered prayer ... The belief that God micromanages the
universe for the benefit of people could in theory be correct or
incorrect. But the belief that God micromanages the universe for the
benefit of American Christians asking to be spared from inconvenience
when seeking to spend their relatively great wealth on luxuries,
while leaving the prayers of Christians in other parts of the world
for an end to drought or famine – for daily bread – unanswered, is
belief in a God who is not merely unworthy of worship but a
perpetrator of atrocities."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:55:24 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Have you read the Cell Phone Bible stories?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:55:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Doesn't sound familiar.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Oct 16 14:56:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

http://nagamakironin.blogspot.com/search/label/Cell%20Phone%20Bible

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Oct 16 15:13:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, it's been almost 50 years since Vatican II?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Oct 16 15:26:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fascinating

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:39:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You guys talk a lot

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:39:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am considering reading this mail-transport-agent thread but O_o

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:40:08 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Is it something more interesting that "Exim? SRSLY?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:40:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... why are you reading debian-devel when there's pressing scripts
work to do?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:40:13 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

*than

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:40:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

achernya: "because it's more interesting than tooling"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:40:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also, "I'm not"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:41:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: I _think_ it's "we should have an mta that makes more sense for
one-user desktop systems, specifically if mdadm or something e-mails
you, it should pop up via libnotify!"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:41:30 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:41:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which... is not the right answer, but is less wrong than me seeing
"You have new mail" every time I, once every two months, log in on a
text terminal because X is confused

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:42:10 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

I think we should let ubuntu figure that one out.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:42:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It scares me that the first thing I thought about that is "what's the
average user going to do with a notification from mdadm", before I
said, "wait, what? A desktop-bound MTA?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:42:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: "that's never the right answer"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:42:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I get "you have new mail" on my xterm when a command returns and it is
so.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:42:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That sounds annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:43:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, especially since I split my MIT mail to my work desktop but
~never read it there.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:43:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, more to the point, they point out that delivering to mbox is
wrong, etc. etc.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:43:30 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Really, mail is at least spiritually wrong for
communicating with the sysadmin in all cases these days.  Someone should
come up with something better.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:44:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But everyone uses sendmail.

Also, they make the point that depending on /usr/lib/sendmail is more
right than `import smtplib` or similar

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:44:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What? In what universe is import smtplib or similar strictly worse
than calling sendmail?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:44:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 39e874f vsprintf: fix bug in negative value printing <nelhage>

What SMTP server do you connect to?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:44:57 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

In a universe with no internet mail.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:44:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

localhost?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:45:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is my localhost running an smtpd?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:45:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, that prevents you from doing interesting things like Debathena's
sendmail

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:45:47 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

"Running a smtp on localhost is just a privilege
escalation waiting to happen"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:46:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Whatever. Calling a command rather than having a sane API is Not.
Better.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:46:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The command _is_ a sane API.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:47:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

execve is never a sane API.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:47:20 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Title XX. Chapter 148: Section 55. Explosive golf balls. <eichin>

like SMTP is? (EHLO!)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:47:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wouldn't object to libsendmail

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:47:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But execve is an order of magnitude better than connecting to some
random host

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:47:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a5e22b6 [NET]: rtnetlink -- rtattr_strcmp const args. <nelhage>

Most languages' mail libraries have a backend that connects to
/usr/lib/why-the-fuck-is-it-at-this-path/sendmail or whatever it's
called.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:48:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, that's the right answer. But everyone seems to decide that the
right approach is to actually use SMTP. (Python gets this wrong in the
standard library, but plenty of people get this wrong at the
application level)

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:55:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AOL is trying to get Yahoo to buy it?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 16:56:32 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

One dying company, another dying company?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:00:39 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

   geofft / debian-devel / AUTH: achernya  2011-10-16 16:44:34  (Alexander
       What? In what universe is import smtplib or similar strictly worse
       than calling sendmail?

Athena machines have a /usr/lib/sendmail. I recently ported
~/bin/mail-merge to shell out instead of using smtplib because of
this.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:01:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Everyone does.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:02:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The proposal at hand is to make mail-transport-agent, the virtual
package defined as "provides /usr/lib/sendmail", Priority: Optional
instead of part of the standard install, which would be Debian
breaking from what everyone else does)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:02:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

-> geofft / debian-devel / AUTH: nelhage  2011-10-16 16:47:59  (a5e22b6 [NET]:
       Most languages' mail libraries have a backend that connects to
       /usr/lib/why-the-fuck-is-it-at-this-path/sendmail or whatever it's
       called.
   geofft / debian-devel / AUTH: geofft  2011-10-16 16:48:39  (Geoffrey Thomas)
       Right, that's the right answer. But everyone seems to decide that the
       right approach is to actually use SMTP. (Python gets this wrong in the
       standard library, but plenty of people get this wrong at the
       application level)

Does Python have a mail library that doesn't do SMTP? Sounds like no?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:02:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I didn't find one when I fixed prospectivize to call sendmail

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:03:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0f83d63 ASoC: au1x: convert to platform drivers. <nelhage>

I know Django does, but dunno about the stdlib.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:03:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Yahoo is bigger than AOL?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:03:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Is this still AOL Time Warner or whatever?)

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:04:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Time Warner punted AOL, it was a loss for them.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:05:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I thought AOL bought Time Warner way back when?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:05:41 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:07:09 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

According to wikipedia, AOL did the buying.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:07:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, what? Apparently AOL "Bought" TW but then did a merger.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:07:50 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

(AOL had a bigger market cap)

"mergers" are usually(? nearly always?) structured as one company buying another.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:08:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I BP Amoco

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:08:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But in '09 _Time Warner_ punted AOL.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:09:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I totally missed that.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:10:50 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

In 2009, AOL was once again spun off as a sperate company,
but that doesn't have _anything_ to do with how the merger was structured.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:11:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

AOL buys TW.
TW sells AOL.
Does this not look weird to you?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:12:08 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

That's business.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:14:50 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Also, you're losing information there.   

AOL buys TW in deal hailed as a "merger of equals" which is born out in the
excutive structure of the new company.  

9 years later, the resulting company renames itself to just Time Warner and
sells off something called AOL. 

The way you're putting it makes it sound like they were distinct entities
post-acquisition, which was certainly not legally the case and apparently
not practically the case.

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:18:25 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What's that screaming...  A great many dramatic situations begin with screaming... <eichin>

also "large company buys smaller company, puts the
smaller board in charge" looks wierd but is a pretty common pattern,
esp. when the smaller one is seen as having a better brand or more agility

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:37:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

cd
wget http://web.mit.edu/geofft/.gitconfig

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:42:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 64347f7 [IPV4] fib_trie: dump message multiple part flag <nelhage>

Heh, I am amused how many of the same aliases we have.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:42:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a0fb7c2 Import 2.3.32pre3 <nelhage>

Other ones I'm fond of:

        rb=rebase
        signoff=commit --amend --signoff -C HEAD
        amend=commit --amend -C HEAD
        git = !git
        rc = rebase --continue
        c-p = cherry-pick

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:43:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, I have git amend.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:43:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 68c14a0 [PATCH] IDE 93 <nelhage>

Er, yeah, sorry, meant to edit that out.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:44:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

What does "git = !git" do? Allow things like `git git commit'?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:44:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c8a3775 perf sched: Sanity check context switch events <nelhage>

I also recommend merge.conflictstyle=diff3

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:44:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: febc769 drm/i915: Disable VGA output when doing DRM_MODE_DPMS_OFF. <nelhage>

Josh: exactly

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:45:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 44dd823 [IB] mthca: Fix off by one bug in mthca_map_cmd <nelhage>

I find I occasionally type 'git ', then get distracted and when I
come back I type 'git checkout' or whatever I meant to type.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:45:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6d0500d [PATCH] [libata] Kill 'count' var in ata_device_add() <nelhage>

I figure there's no reason for that not to work :)

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Can you chain it? git git git git git git git git git git commit?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: e7c4001 [POWERPC] Fix pci_setup_phb_io_dynamic for pci_iomap <nelhage>

Yep!

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

git-tacular!

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(I feel like this is some programmer's game of Duck Duck Goose)

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gotta git git... that boom boom pow?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:46:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d5ffd75 ixgbe: disable MSI-X by default on certain Cisco adapters <nelhage>

Also branch.autosetuprebase = true

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:47:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What does ri do?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:47:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: cdec924 [PATCH] add missing page_referenced() for MMUless configs <nelhage>

ri?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:47:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

    ri = rebase -i -c core.editor=true

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:48:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just added it and was going to mention it on zephyr. Given autosquash,
it deals with fixup! and the like.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:48:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But... huh, where is autosquash?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:48:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 155dd4c [SCSI] mpt2sas: Prevent sending command to FW while Host Reset <nelhage>

Does -c work after the command lie that?

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:48:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 41fd81c powerpc/cell: Add rtas rtc calls for the QPACE platform <nelhage>

*like

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:48:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f5a1e9f KVM: MMU: remove call to kvm_mmu_pte_write from walk_addr <nelhage>

Yeah, I also have rebase.autosquash=true

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:49:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, let me try it.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:49:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I removed autosquash for my git class and kept it on my laptop

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:52:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

nelhage: You're right. The current version works.

Class: geofft Instance: <3
Time: Sun Oct 16 17:59:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

Oh man, I totally do the 'git git checkout' thing. I do it for 'cd'
too...

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:38:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:38:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At this point I care less what decision I make than that I make a
decision

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:39:23 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I am intimately familiar with that feeling.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:50:24 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Try the "flip a coin, thus finding out what your gut wants while the
coin is in the air" thing?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:50:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

or more generally, try making a provisional decision and seeing how
you feel about it?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:53:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I once made a decision based on "I should do foo, because I'll regret
not doing foo if I bar or baz, but I won't regret not doing bar or
baz", and I actually vaguely regret not doing bar or baz

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:54:48 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Which will provide you with the greatest information
about what you care about in life?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 00:54:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I've had success making a decision for 24 hours, and telling everyone
that's what I'm doing, having conversations about it, and so on. If
after 24 hours I still haven't had serious second thoughts I stick with
it. Otherwise I go the other fork. No more flip-flopping after that.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:00:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Re 00:53 -- I feel like rationally predicting your future regrets is a
Hard Problem, and I think what you really want to do is figure out
methods of accessing your irrational mind. Letting your gut speak.

(At least, this is what I think I would do if I were in your
situation.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:07:22 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you could try sacreficing a goat and reading its entrails?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:08:32 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

..............

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:09:14 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

So actually I recently read a very good defense of
Tarot-reading-while-rationalist as a way of facilitating one's
irrational decision-making in this way.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:10:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

afarrell: There are at least three opportunities which can serve
as strong indicators for "Nope, crap, didn't like this one bit." But
I don't really want to play that game.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 01:48:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I heard some advice from someone a while ago that might (not?) be
helpful to you: when evaluating the place you're considering working
at, try to choose a place that has people who will be, in five years,
people you want to be connected to. This sort of depends on how much you care
about networking though

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 02:16:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

ministark: Ooh, that sounds like great advice. (Talking to
my mom has gradually persuaded me that networking is very, very
important.) -- of course, if the choice is between "great connections"
and "good connections", and not between great and terrible, then this
becomes a minor consideration.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 09:56:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That would argue in favor of one particular course of action, which
feels too much like taking a job _for_ the networking

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:25:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DEPARTMENTAL 6-P REQUIREMENTS SATISFIED IF SUBJECTS COMPLETED AS NOTED

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:25:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey guys I might actually be graduating

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:25:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

++

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:24:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

yay

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:24:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Now you can work full time at IS&T"

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:26:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:25:22 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, what's 6-P?

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:26:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

MEng.

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:25:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Huh.  I didn't know that had its own letter.

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:27:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jdreed: That's certainly my fallback plan for the spring if I angst
out and end up going to grad school next fall andneed something to do
in the spring. (But it seems exceedingly unlikely at this point)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:40:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Solution: Exterminate all other cultures and establish American
hegemony.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:40:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:40:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If ever there was a "now you have *two* problems" solution...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 11:41:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

IDN spoofing attacks.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Oct 17 12:06:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JEucnbw4Wis/TpE2IXKnEMI/AAAAAAAAHRk/teaZHddZhE8/s1600/Probably+no+Dawkins.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Oct 17 12:06:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

...what's the joke?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Oct 17 12:06:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's a parody of the the "There's probably no God so stop worrying"
ads, no?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Oct 17 12:07:23 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1079684/Theres-probably-God-slogan-carried-City-buses.html

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Oct 17 12:09:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 13:34:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... there's a smiley in the StackGuard paper?

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Oct 17 13:44:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ps.q
Time: Mon Oct 17 14:40:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Removing the following eleven lines is illegal, subject to the
Digital Copyright Act of 1998."

Class: geofft Instance: ps.q
Time: Mon Oct 17 14:49:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. I bet claiming that is illegal, given the fact that the
information in the PDF wasn't copyrighted.

Class: geofft Instance: ps.q
Time: Mon Oct 17 14:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(That said, I do appreciate the programmer who put that comment in
there.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 17 15:26:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[narrow subs until 10pm]

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 15:27:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Oops, this code has bugs"

Class: geofft Instance: ps.q
Time: Mon Oct 17 16:21:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Ah, you found the "encrypted PDF" hack?

Class: geofft Instance: systems
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:14:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I hear "shared-nothing" and "shared-storage". Can you share other
things? Like share CPU but have different storage? Does that even make
sense?

Class: geofft Instance: systems
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:18:23 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Shared CPU, different storage = KVM?

Class: geofft Instance: systems
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:18:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I was just going to say virtualization.

Class: geofft Instance: systems
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:19:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is that a reasonable architecture for anything relating to distributed
systems? (Other than "scripts needs more global locks", but, uh)

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:34:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay pbaranay

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:47:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... seriously, how did this ever work

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Oct 17 17:57:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Isn't macgregor@ moderated, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Oct 17 18:00:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

He raises a good point -- should people really be spamming McGreggor
Crowley's email?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Mon Oct 17 18:13:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well that lasted all of a day

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Mon Oct 17 18:22:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess 4 oz meat / meal is a reasonable estimate, actually (lunch
yesterday when it was fresh, lunch and dinner today). Also this is
tasty enough that I'm willing to eat it several days in a row, so I
should just scale up the same approach.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 18:24:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So confused!

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 17 18:26:52 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

People you want to be connected too might also be people you want to
learn from.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:03:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh, new angstmeal, thanks guys

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:03:38 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:04:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"the thing that angst feeds on to grow"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:04:13 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I generally call that angstfodder

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:04:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, but this sounds like you can have it for breakfast with brown
sugar and raisins.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:05:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I might actually have some more questions. :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:10:50 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Wereas in the other case it sounds like you send it into battle
or give it to horses. 

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki.ttants
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:31:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anthea
Athena

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki.ttants
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:31:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

a lot of people have been making that mistake

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki.ttants
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm looking for in three years when you get a new pet named Debanthea

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki.ttants
Time: Mon Oct 17 19:34:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Oct 17 20:18:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

shining-armor
shining-oreman

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Oct 17 21:50:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o You can load a new builtin from a shared object via `enable -f`?

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Oct 17 21:50:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

bash has loadable modules???

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 23:46:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I still haven't met jinstone in person

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 17 23:46:54 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I have.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 18 00:24:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have you never seen her?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 18 00:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I've seen her, I just haven't met her.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Oct 18 00:25:21 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

She is a lot less excitable in person.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:08:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahahaha, according to Lennart, this site is "Lennart's Weekly News"

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:15:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if DuckDuckGo doesn't do the spelling-correction thing.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:18:11 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Shoot them an e-mail, yegg@alum.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:18:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I more mean that I'm probably just going to try using DuckDuckGo
instead of Google for a while and see if I hate it less

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:20:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bing also seems to DTRT.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:20:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yahoo less so.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:22:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I thought Yahoo search was secretly Bing these days.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:24:13 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

I dunno whether that's for English results only still.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:24:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is (not-so-)secretly Bing, but it seems to default to including the
"typo"-"corrected" version, where Bing proper doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:25:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My current convenient example that _could_ just be two typos but is
secretly a particularly uncommon pair of terms is 'systemd kthread'.
Compare the results from that on these four search engines

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:25:24 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Maybe it depends on the query? Bing gives me "Including results for
muffin.
Do you want results for muffni?"

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:26:05 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

But yeah, I repro Bing giving me "Do you mean system kthread?" + the
top 2 hits for that query, then the rest of the page is the results
for [systemd kthread]

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:32:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, in the last 24 hours I've gotten way too much information to
process, oops.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:32:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I should have gone with my uninformed gut instinct"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 01:51:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[eip] ... Wait, this conversation wasn't supposed to be about _life_,
I'm just using the instance as a way to be overdramatic

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 02:14:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not that you shouldn't try a search engine that behaves more like this
by default, but you can get the exact-match behavior on Google by
prefixing each affected word with a plus sign.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 02:14:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It doesn't always work.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 02:15:15 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hm, really?  I tried it just now on [systemd kthread] and it seemed to.

Class: geofft Instance: search
Time: Tue Oct 18 02:17:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll note the next example.

Class: geofft Instance: books
Time: Tue Oct 18 03:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's almost like Kevin DeYoung and John Piper share the same theology!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Oct 18 12:37:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... dude, when we say "desktop." we don't mean "not laptop"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.flipdog
Time: Tue Oct 18 14:37:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:32:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"[Lab 1] almost broke me as a person. I lost all self-worth..."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:33:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:33:58 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I mean... that's totally a valid reaction to too much lab work. It
perhaps indicates you should examine if the class is for you.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:34:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

In fairness, lab 1 is pretty harsh.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:35:00 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I have noted that all lab-based classes seem to give a wallop of a
first lab.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:35:27 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

It's particularly bad when that happens in a few clases at once.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 17:39:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, Lab 1 was the fun one!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 18:09:15 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

I seem to recall the labs getting *way* easier after lab 1

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 18:09:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

That's kind of the consensus of office hours.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:11:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Still confused.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:12:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Can I go into the forest on a journey of self-discovery?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:12:49 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "Make snark not war?" "Make love /and/ snark."  - peairs, lexrj <wings>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:13:39 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I think it would be easier to go into the SMR on a journey of
self-discovery.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:13:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

But so much less fun!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:14:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Lab 1 was fun. The rest of them were some mixture of "boring" and
"annoying".

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

at...first I thought that was an i-mix.  It certainly fit with -i
life...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.student.q
Time: Tue Oct 18 19:26:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh, yeah, that confused me when I was catching up.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Oct 19 11:09:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"MIT Athena geeks are awesome warm hearted ~~~"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 19 11:14:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Sirach
Sriracha

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 19 11:15:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

Siri

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Oct 19 11:38:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Further, murder is a more grievous sin than fornication or adultery.
Now nobody may lawfully commit simple fornication or adultery or any
other mortal sin in order to save his own life; since the spiritual
life is to be preferred to the life of the body. Therefore no man may
lawfully take another's life in self-defense in order to save his own
life."

Class: geofft Instance: q.d
Time: Wed Oct 19 11:40:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Also, what, there are Google ads for being a National Guard Chaplain
on this one interwebs copy of Summa Theologica?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Oct 19 12:55:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... someone ported Cucumber to Python?
http://packages.python.org/lettuce/

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Oct 19 12:56:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... someone created a thing called "MongoAlchemy"?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Oct 19 13:06:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Wait, _what_
http://twig.sensiolabs.org/

Class: geofft Instance: learn-to-fly.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 19 13:56:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Run and tell ALL of the angels!

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:49:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm confused at what dementia.org is now

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:49:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(specifically the web page)

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

dementix.org was cooler anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:16 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

beats me. dementix.org is mine now

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:37 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

and is probably still down, web-wise, due to the machine hosting the
vm for the web server blowing up

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Right, but I thought the deal was someone paid you money for
dementia.org? And then turned it over to the "What you need, when you
need it" folks?

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

That confuses me.

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:51 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

shrug. 

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:50:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ae1cef6 usb: convert r8a66597-hcd to dev_pm_ops <nelhage>

I feel like you need dementib.org through dementiw.org now.

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:51:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

dementiæ.org

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:51:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... Huh, do Kerberos and AFS support IDN realms/cells?

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:51:47 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

afs would surely not

Class: geofft Instance: help.d.ttants
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:53:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

while privileged
white privileged

Class: geofft Instance: shadow
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:53:09 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The Kerberos protocol requires that most strings (including realms) be
ASCII.  Implementations tend not to enforce this, but neither do they
do anything useful if you put non-ASCII stuff in there.  (Except for
Microsoft's implementation which assumes UTF-8 for some strings.)

Class: geofft Instance: help.d.ttants.d
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:53:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I still crack up when I go by the "White Activities Center" at the
local college back home.

Class: geofft Instance: help.d.ttants
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:54:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b358d0a drm/i915: fix sparse warnings: make symbols static <nelhage>

Your honor, we find sendmail(1) guilty of Parsing While Privileged.
We recommend an extensive program of remedial sandboxing.

Class: geofft Instance: ++
Time: Wed Oct 19 14:56:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

meta-gnome2 (1:2.26+1) unstable; urgency=low
[...]
  * Demote NM to Recommends, since people apparently can’t stand to be
    able to configure their network in a decent way. Closes: #542095.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:10:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Are we done raining yet? Can I go home now?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:11:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

No, you have to wait until 2AM.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:12:07 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

ezyang, why are you being so difficult?

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:46:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... Seriously, I opened reddit.com, got bored, and opened reddit.com
in a new tab?

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:46:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think that's a new low

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:45:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're not the first person who'se done that.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:47:07 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I've totally done that.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:47:16 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's not a low until you do that 3 times. Or worse still, fail to
notice that you've done this, and tab through reddit at different page
levels.

Class: geofft Instance: lapentab
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:49:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Still happy with my headphone purchasing strategy

Class: geofft Instance: lapentab
Time: Wed Oct 19 15:50:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Which reminds me, I should get new headphones for my piano

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Oct 19 16:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/miscellaneous/ea7b/

Class: geofft Instance: elses.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 19 17:23:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think I understand startups as well as I understand gender

Class: geofft Instance: elses.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 19 17:25:20 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: It's only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything. - Tyler Durden, Fight Club <wings>

?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 19 17:27:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"I understand that some peoiple care deeply, and I kind of wish I did,
but it seems prohibitive to figure out how all of this works"

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 17:34:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

[stark] 
I have gone to one of my standard timewasting sites, skimmed
the page, then entered the URL of the same site in the location bar
(not even a new tab) and gone there again.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Wed Oct 19 17:56:25 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I've done that with other sites.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:37:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Guys guys guys! I think I actually understand the material in this
class now!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:37:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

yay!

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:45:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Wait seriously efogg is involved in Drawtop? Ldots

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:48:53 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "pbaranay, in love, you will need a swingset and an alien ship..." - clyde <pbaranay>

You didn't notice him in their promotional photos?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:49:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I didn't actually hear anything about this other than that someone
mentioning it in passing as "look what the latest dumb startup idea
I heard about is" on Career Fair day or so.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Oct 19 23:49:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Honestly, I didn't notice their promotional photos.
(What do they do?)

Class: geofft Instance: esp.else
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:55:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm awfully tempted to register a class that's basically "Here are a
bunch of really easy a cappella arrangements of songs you probably
know, let's sing through them", but I don't think I have the time to
find these arrangements, and I suspect the easiest route will be for
me to arrange them, which will be lots of fun but eat at _least_ a
solid day.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.else
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:56:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That... sounds like a lot of fun.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.else
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:56:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

IAP class?

Class: geofft Instance: esp.else
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:57:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

That's probably more workable. It also is vaguely more likely to get
people who can competently sing.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.else
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:57:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think I wanted to do this... last summer? and never got around to
it.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Oct 20 01:59:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Also, sigh, I guess I should explicitly plan on being in Boston
through IAP and maybe a week or two more, whether or not I'm thesing.
(Which may involve needing to find _housing_, although there's the
argument that since I'm selling out to industry, I can afford a ~month
of paying 4x my usual rent even if all my roommates disappear at the
end of December.)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Oct 20 02:02:27 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Its efogg and his girlfriend.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Oct 20 02:02:37 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Its like a thing on the side.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Oct 20 02:03:11 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

its a whiteboard you stick on the back of your laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Oct 20 02:03:39 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Its not going to make shit-tons of money, but its a thing that has
utility.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Thu Oct 20 14:17:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Ugh, I am going to be so lost next time I go to a Catholic Mass

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Thu Oct 20 14:17:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://imgur.com/a/JYjdS

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Thu Oct 20 14:18:32 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

The hell?  There was never any breast-striking in any of the Masses I went to.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Thu Oct 20 14:22:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

They retranslated the English Mass, it's taking effect this Advent or
so.

Class: geofft Instance: catholic
Time: Thu Oct 20 14:22:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I want to say that other traditions (like Eastern Orthodoxy) do
basically that?

Class: geofft Instance: ads
Time: Thu Oct 20 15:55:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

So I know Google does targeted advertising, which makes me
really uncomfortable that I keep getting this picture of Justin Bieber
with the text "Does he have a crush on you? Find out if he's your
match!"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Oct 20 15:58:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

In reply to me saying ~"no, I can't interview with you, I have offers
and I'm going to accept something ~tomorrow":

"That is unfortunate. Would you be interested in having a technical
phone conversation with our Sr. Members tomorrow with the
anticipation of flying to Chicago possibly on Tuesday to expedite the
process? Just an option I would like to extend to you. Let me know
your thoughts."

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Oct 20 15:58:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm flattered, but I'm not sure "unfortunate" is the term I'd use.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:21:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"illegally" is almost a palindrome

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:23:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, today is looking like a day of not being motivated.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:24:10 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

illegelli ? yllagally ?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:24:50 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Ah, the uniform of a Revolutionary-era minuteman.
 <rnjacobs>

ʎꞁꞁe8əlly

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:26:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"If only I could convert that into being motivated to negotiate job
offers"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Oct 20 16:35:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/liuaj/so_what_are_you_guys_dressing_up_as_for_jesusween/

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:39:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It philosophically confuses me that we made commits to the quiz in
git while the quiz was going on.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:39:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

They were clarifications that were announced in class, so I guess it
makes sense for someone looking at the quiz later, but still

Class: geofft Instance: sebastian's
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:42:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm so confused why everyone is making U-turns at Ames (back towards
Broadway)

Class: geofft Instance: sebastian's
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:43:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

To get into the Cambridge Center parking garage?

Class: geofft Instance: sebastian's
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:44:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hrm, maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Oct 20 17:50:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Please, Hammer, don't hurt 'em, but not my will but thine be done"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 20 21:34:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I love Nickolai so much. He's a professor who's _actually willing to
write code_

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 20 21:34:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My advisor is willing to write code!
He just hardly has the time to do so ...

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Oct 20 22:02:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Wait, people get upvotes on /r/Christianity for telling me that a
single objective moral standard doesn't exist? What has happened to
this place

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct 21 03:58:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:10:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://mid.gmane.org/20111021135153.GA30251@raleigh

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:14:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

The other response is darkly funny: ~"Ubuntu never sends patches
upstream, neither to the developer nor to Debian, but at least it
means if there's a bug in Debian I can usually fix it by lookinng at
Ubuntu's patches"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:14:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> Ubuntu never sends patches upstream
...didn't Iain rather conclusively disprove that?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:17:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, it's probably not true. Just funny.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:17:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(Or it might be true for that guy's packages)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu/debian.sigh
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:19:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(fwiw, Ubuntu has an *incredibly* strong culture of pushing patches to
Debian, which I think is occasionally to its own detriment, especially
around freezes and such)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Oct 21 13:44:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Solution: mitprinta4

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:11:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Did I make this up, or is there a GREY17.ORG Kerberos realm in one of
my krb5.confs?

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:12:51 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The square root of rope is string. <asedeno>

I have GREY17 in my Athena9 krb5.confs.

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:18:05 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

yep.  Retrieving the kdc db is on my list of things to do
(the machine is in the basement)

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:19:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's on RPMland's krb5.conf but not Squeeze's? Huh

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:24:17 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: choose death <kcr>

It probably fell out of the krb5 team's krb5.conf owing
to having been down for a decade

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:24:47 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: choose death <kcr>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: awake
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:33:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I hadn't seen it before, was kind of out of it yesterday, and wanted
to make sure I wasn't making up realms in my sleep

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Oct 21 14:50:54 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:08:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"So, for context, Evan was a former student developer and his goal was
to Pythonify the world"

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:08:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Sounds about right.

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:11:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm allowed to take that as a compliment, right?

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:11:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yes. (We're trying to figure out what to do with python-afs)

Class: geofft Instance: actual-reply-to-a-comment-i-made-on-reddit
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:22:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"That's the thing about cultural evolution; we decide as a society
that things like slavery, genocide, genital mutilation, etc. are bad
and we do away with them. Most people might think that things like
genocide are objectively wrong, but that's only because almost all of
us have subjectively defined morality in such a way that sees genocide
as a negative thing."

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:44:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, are you explaining this to jrjarvis?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 16:59:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm fascinated by the answers to "why isn't your product open source"
for the places for which this is relevant

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 17:05:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 17:21:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

And particularly how they all said "If you want to publish papers, we
should publish more papers".

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Oct 21 18:14:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm, my browser has decided that I can no longer upvote, downvote,
click the "more" button, or reply to comments.

I feel like I should not fix this.

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Oct 21 18:22:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> python-afs
*cough* pyafs

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:02:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, "dictionary attack" would actually be a fun Halloween costume.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:28:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<We should not pretend to understand the world only by the intellect. (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

Do it!

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:53:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Whoa I'm going to be cruft

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:54:32 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Warning, sphere corruption at twenty-- rats cannot throw up. <asedeno>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: così
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:54:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Is this an ... acoustic guitar cover of "Mrs. Robinson"? Or a ukelele
cover?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:55:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Happens to the best of us.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:53:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"You'd be even better cruft if you stuck around and worked on
Debathena forever"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:54:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Just sayin'

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:56:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, being good at being cruft is either an excellent reason to stay
in Boston or an excellent reason to run as far from Boston as possible

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:56:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(where "as far from Boston as possible" is defined as SF, not, like,
Taiwan)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:56:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Only 4% of land is antipodal to land.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:56:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

For example Chile/Mongolia.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:55:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sure, but a lot of land is antipodal to international waters, where
there are no rules!

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 20:57:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

I moved reasonably far away.  
It didn't take.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 21:00:07 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Go work for NASA or a private space-flight company and move to the
moon.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 21:00:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

geofft☃ / status / geofft  2011-10-09 19:47  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    Well, I'd like to visit the moon
    On a rocketship high in the air
    Yes, I'd like to visit the moon
    But I don't think I'd like to live there
    Though I'd like to look down on the Earth from above
    I would miss all the places and people above
    So although I might like it for one afternoon
    I don't want to live on the moon

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 21:03:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Heh.

(Is the word "above" supposed to be there twice? I feel like the
second one should be "I love" or something.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 21:03:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Oops, yes, it is "I love"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Oct 21 21:03:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

i,i "see Ernie, supra."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 22:25:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm not sure if I should be happy with deciding that I will deal with
mean people by being counter-mean as opposed to being abused. It
feels more long-term productive, and way more short-term
counterproductive.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 22:26:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

...not necessarily?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 22:26:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

I mean, there is a way to not be abused, while not being counter-mean.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 22:26:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

I.e. the difference between self defence and being vindictive.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 21 22:28:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, I should perhaps get better at it. But I lose my temper quickly
:)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:29:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Sigh, still need to figure out what I want to do for a (non-MIT) VPS

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:30:30 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Vangelis – Ballad
 <rnjacobs>

rapidxen seems cheap and reasonable for its cheapness.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:32:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

O_o
http://tinyvz.com/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:34:23 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You... may or may not want an OpenVZ.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:34:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Having been on both sides of OVZ, it's kinda scary.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:35:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I kind of want to play with these things on my laptop, but yeah, I
doubt I want it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:35:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Fortunately, the same folks run http://tinykvm.com/.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:35:29 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If you want to play with it on client-side, I can get you a shell on
my OVZ _guest_.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 22 01:38:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

On the Xen vs. KVM front, RapidKVM is $20/month, which is more
expensive than Gandi (my registrar)'s offering. Although Gandi's
appears to ben Xen paravirt, too?

Class: geofft Instance: meow
Time: Sat Oct 22 02:22:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cat_handler

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Oct 22 02:43:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"To His Coy Mistress: The Ten-Day: The Ten-Thousand-Day"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Oct 22 02:46:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: mherdeg.repost
Time: Sat Oct 22 05:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/WSeGK.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: meow
Time: Sat Oct 22 09:58:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

That reminds me of
http://www.dailyhaha.com/_vids/super_troopers_meow.htm

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Oct 22 17:29:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

So glad I'm leaving... nobody ever told me about this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Oct 22 17:31:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Oct 22 17:35:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I get a lot of jokes along those lines about the scar on my cheek
from a minor surgery.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 22 17:51:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I should get out of bed at some point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 22 17:51:16 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Oct 22 18:07:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I http://fencing-game.de/en/origin.html

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Sat Oct 22 18:17:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

Why did they leave out the degree symbol in "crossed at 90"? Whyyy?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Oct 22 19:11:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

We're the Bank of America (whoaoh!)
We're the Bank of America (whoaoh!)
Everybody gets 12% APR!

Class: geofft Instance: clyde.q
Time: Sat Oct 22 21:35:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"geofft, try to avoid any drugs except MDMA"

Class: geofft Instance: clyde.q
Time: Sat Oct 22 21:36:14 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

that's terrible advice.

Class: geofft Instance: doxoryorz
Time: Sat Oct 22 21:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

x) make a decision about jobs
y) hack on Debathena
z) grade

Class: geofft Instance: doxoryorz
Time: Sat Oct 22 21:55:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(y), duh.

Class: geofft Instance: doxoryorz
Time: Sat Oct 22 21:55:47 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

then (z)

Class: geofft Instance: doxoryorz
Time: Sat Oct 22 22:08:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

let (x) percolate in the back of your head while doing (y), (z), or
something else?

Class: geofft Instance: doxoryorz
Time: Sat Oct 22 22:10:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(x) is active effort, namely, downloading every potential company's
product or git repo as appropriate and poking at it.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:01:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Lady Marmalade
Lady Antebellum
Lady Gaga

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:03:11 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Antebellum?

Class: geofft Instance: til
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Canola" is an abbrevation for "Canadian oil, low acid"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:04:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

They're a music group.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:00 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

LADY GAGA IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:11 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hello, Jordan.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:18 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

HI!!!!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

geofft, you cast Summon Jordan

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:07:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

you should be careful with that power

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:08:14 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

WHY?????????????????????????? DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD:

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:08:32 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

That was a "summon Caffeinated Sugar Rush Jordan" I think.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:08:48 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

great\ {power,responsibility} etc.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:08:58 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Nope I only had one thing of coffee today!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:09:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you, like, have a filter for Lady Gaga, or do you just read things?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:09:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

no, Karl, that's pretty standard Jordan

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:09:17 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Nope just read things. Teach me how to make filters!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:09:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

most people /<username>, I bet Jordan /<gaga>

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:09:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

er s/<gaga>/gaga/

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:10:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... you can :setsearch, you know.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:10:16 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

A filter is essentially a subset of a set.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:10:52 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

er k doesn't help me much. Kyoki's comment did

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:27:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(stark) I leave my computer for twenty minutes and this is what I get?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:29:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... Huh, I haven't had serious wrist issues in a couple of years.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 00:33:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Mostly, "since a year after 6.170"

Class: geofft Instance: lolouroboros
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:25:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/8GELr.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:29:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

On a compleSo I saw this bath soap today that included pheromones.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:29:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

*On a complete tangent, 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:30:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Dial for Men Magnetic Bodywash"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:30:39 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Fuckin' bodywash, how does it work?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:31:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Using androstadienone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:32:05 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

boy, that takes me back to bored enough to 
read the ads in the back of popular mechanics

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:48:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Where did my soynut butter go???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 01:48:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(I can't figure out why anyone other than me would eat it when we have
actual peanut butter)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 02:34:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 02:34:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 15:55:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> Park Street

Class: geofft Instance: zedshaw
Time: Sun Oct 23 16:10:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Wait, this is actually listpony.
http://librelist.com/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 16:10:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

nvm, punting

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:26:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

too hungry to make food

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:27:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Out of the night that covers me, black as the Pit from pole to pole, <jhamrick>

I hate it when that happens

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:28:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

And I know that ~20 to ~30 minutes to prep something isn't that long
(and about as long as it'd take me to drag myself out of the house and
get fast food), but seeing that number is disheartening

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:47:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... how do I get a single piece of frozen meat (like a chicken breast)
out without defrosting the whole thing?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:47:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

"ice pick"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:47:51 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you can run it under lukewarm water

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:48:08 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Are you talking about sexual desire or syphilis? <wings>

ageng - ITYM chainsaw

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:48:28 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

so if you just run one part under water, it should defrost enough for
you to separate it

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:48:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

what can I say--I'm old-fashioned.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:48:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ∇×E⃗ <bsena>

Meat tenderizers or other forms of hammer can help break apart separate pieces that are frozen
together.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:49:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Ping Pong Circulate <kchen>

Not that it helps now, but I usually wrap everything in foil individually when
I buy it, before I freeze it.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:51:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

kasittig: so take the entire thing out of the styrofoam it came in,
defrost the end, refreeze the rest?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:51:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(I thought I was trying to avoid refreezing it?)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:52:14 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Refreezing is only really bad if you've let the meat thaw all the way
to "completely floppy", I think?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:52:25 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah, it's not terrible if it's only partially defrosted

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:52:44 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

You should be fine just running the joint between two pieces under
lukewarm water. That joint is structurally the weakest part of a
frozen bunch of meat, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:53:04 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

basically, if you thaw it and refreeze it a bunch of times, the pointy
ice crystals will destroy the cells and it will be gross or something
like that

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:54:37 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

for the future, I am also in favor of splitting things into individual
portions before freezing them

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 17:57:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, this was a thing from the store we got a few months ago.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 18:22:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, trying it for... 10-15 minutes? seems to have worked. Hopefully
the rest of the meat is okay

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 18:22:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(the relevant one is now completely defrosted, and I got the last of
it  separatedwith a knife)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:07:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, cooking chicken is totally not that hard.

Class: geofft Instance: mandator-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:07:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

*level up*

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:07:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

er, that

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:08:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Chciken paprikash is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:09:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

I think cooking chicken is difficult.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:09:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's chicken, you can't go wrong (except for under/over cooking)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:09:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

Under cooking is a big problem. Also it being dry.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:09:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, this isn't perfect.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:10:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Both of those can be solved with marinade and a grill :D

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:10:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

"But that's hard"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:11:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I was more curious about cooking it at all, and apparently "get it on
a cutting board, chop it into pieces, and put it on a skillet while
your pasta cooks" suffices, and that's the same procedure for cooking,
like, onions or peppers or whatnot

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:11:22 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It... is? I never though "throw chicken breast into italian dressing,
in fridge overnight then grill for 8 minutes" was hard.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:11:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It requires that you have a grill...

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:11:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They're like $20. George Foreman whatever-they're-called.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:12:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm. I think we have one that got gross.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:12:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Anyway, this plus three tablespoons laziness is what I made.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Garlic-Chicken-with-Orzo-Noodles/Detail.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:12:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(where by "laziness" I mean "replace all fresh ingredients with
powdered or frozen ones")

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Oct 23 19:31:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I still have no idea how keeping packages in git is supposed to work

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:16:11 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

We can go shoes shopping as our first act of friendship! :D

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:16:31 2011 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Is that better than crossdressing? 

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:18:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... I suppose.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:21:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What prompted this suggestion?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:23:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Her class, I assume.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 23 22:25:22 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

no, you should go hat shopping.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Oct 23 23:07:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

the solution that everyone hits upon
the solution that everyone hits on

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 00:26:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Over the last several days, I've found that my _angst_ has basically
disappeared, but what I find myself caring about has wavered a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 00:27:42 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: space whales, whales in spaces, because in space, nobody can hear you... wail? - codetaku [on Doctor Who] <wings>

What have you (not) cared about?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 00:29:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm more meaning in terms of "wait, your problem is interesting."
"wait, your problem is uninteresting."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:25:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:25:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(and pondering going back to sleep)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:27:54 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"So, about that talking to the liason to students in the morning thing"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:29:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Well, there's also "So, about that having a decision about what job
offer to accept in the morning thing" and "I have this sneaking
suspicion that the rest of the 6.858 staff is out of town for SOSP,
so I wonder what happened at lecture"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:30:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:33:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Were you supposed to be teaching the lecture?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 12:54:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Nobody told me if so!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 24 13:44:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

> Having been on both sides of OVZ, it's kinda scary.

achernya, you worked on OpenVZ?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 24 13:46:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

He meant the host side and the guest side, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 24 13:46:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Oh. That seems more likely, doesn't it. Thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 24 14:02:39 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've read the OVZ code, and tried to fix a problem, but it turned out
to have been already fixed in a newer release, but ==andersk.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 14:29:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I should, like, brush my teeth, eat breakfast, and pick a job :-(

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:45:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Ugh, picking words.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:51:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Also, I wonder at what point to be honest about all the secondard
reasons why I didn't accept offers, even if the primary reason is "I
care more about working on that". (Like "Everyone else offered me 30%
more than you")

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:52:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

you should do that if you think that them adjusting that part of the offer will
change your mind

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:52:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

if not, I wouldn't bother

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:54:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Apart from skepticism that they'll do that, it won't, but I feel bad
giving people platitudes instead of actionable feedback

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:55:14 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that the way to make a unicorn happy is to give it what it wants.
 <rnjacobs>

At some point, just saying "Sorry, I'm not interested" and stopping responding
isn't unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:56:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Oh no, I've given up on telling the creepy people they're creepy. I'm
talking about being nice to the nice people. :)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:57:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Thank you, thank you.” Six bows to Four. Six wobbles. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

In my experience, saying "I'd like your offer more if you gave me more
money" does get you more money, at least if you have competing offers.
YMMV.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:58:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I guess I'm being unclear.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 16:59:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I've already decided that I don't want the _job_ at the place that's
offering less. But they seem to be under the impression that the
_salary_ is competitive, and it's... clearly not. (Unless they missed
that I'll have a master's, or something.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:00:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

And so, while it will do me no good and not influence my decision, I
feel like I ought to pass on that information.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:00:29 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

To be clear, if you suggest "thanks, but I have another opportunity
that seems like a true calling ... and just as a point of feedback, I
think you're lowballing your candidates by at least 30%", they will
offer you more money instead of just saying "thanks, see you later."

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:00:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, I don't want that. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:00:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Human interaction is hard, let's go shopping

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:01:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

we can go shopping when you move here!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:17:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

All right, accepted MokaFive. I'll be moving out to the Bay Area
around the end of IAP. (Possibly earlier, we'll see.)

Now about that breakfast thing...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:17:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

*hug*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:15:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>(Possibly earlier, we'll see.)

Eep?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:18:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"During IAP", not "during term".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:16:50 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"I have a vested interest you being around for most of IAP", but sure.
Congrats, anyway

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:19:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Dude, you already have a vested interest in Debathena developers not
joining MokaFive, this is not news

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:20:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott>

MokaFive, the Debathena capital of California!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:20:20 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

Welcome to the Bay Area? Now you need to figure out where you want to
live here?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:20:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

move into the nerd mansion!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:20:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

The what?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:20:53 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Congrats!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:21:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Congrats, Geoff. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:21:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

isn't that what the place Broder is living is called? that's what I've heard it
referred to by, at least

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:21:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Thanks, all.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:21:39 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

s/?/!/ s/?/.../

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:29:15 2011 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I am late, but: congrats, Geoffrey :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:29:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c157282 kconfig: gconfig - fix 2 warnings <nelhage>

Staking, congrats!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:30:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Congratulations =)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:31:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2070ee0 sched: cleanup old and rarely used 'debug' features. <nelhage>

LD_REPLOAD ALL THE THINGS

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:32:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Whooo! :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:33:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

rep LD_PRELOAD *

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:34:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 435c55d rtc: rtc-sh: Fix up dev_dbg() warnings. <nelhage>

Hm, Maybe "ʟᴅ_ᴘʀᴇʟᴏᴀᴅ ALL THE THINGS" is a better rendering.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:35:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think you just want to make the picture.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:35:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4f678a5 mtd: fix memory leaks in phram_setup <nelhage>

True.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 17:50:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Anyway, congrats.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 18:49:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Oops. Ate breakfast, now I want lunch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 19:00:07 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Awww... We'll miss you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 19:00:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

In other news, we should hang out when I visit home, and/or am
working at VMware next fall.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 19:01:35 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

==adehnert, minus the part about VMware.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 19:07:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Out of the night that covers me, black as the Pit from pole to pole, <jhamrick>

(stark) Congrats!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 20:48:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Congrats, and see you out here soon!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 20:52:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Congrats.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 20:53:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

My barnowl died. Where are you working?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 20:57:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

   geofft / status / geofft  17:17  (had we but world enough and time)
       All right, accepted MokaFive. I'll be moving out to the Bay Area
       around the end of IAP. (Possibly earlier, we'll see.)

Class: geofft Instance: zomg-antichrist
Time: Mon Oct 24 21:09:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/idUS264245887020111024

Class: geofft Instance: zomg-antichrist
Time: Mon Oct 24 21:12:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm a little sad that "technical solutions to economic problems" isn't
a direct quote from the Vatican, but amused nonetheless.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Oct 24 21:16:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"We're looking for students to teach software project management, and
still looking for someone to lead the C++ class."

I wonder what "software project management" means.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 21:23:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Where do I want to go tool for two hours?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 24 21:23:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm, "McDonald's" is too tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:30:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Does the Bay Area have the same September 1 phenomenon as Boston?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:33:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What is the September 1 phenomenon?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:33:38 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

September 1 phenomenon?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:35:31 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Starfleet Academy - Drama Department <eichin>

"The dance of the [morons in] u-hauls"

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:36:36 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

"Bay Area" is surely much too broad an area for that to be a
meaningful question, then.  Presumably it does around Berkeley, but
probably not so much in Silicon Valley?  Except maybe in bits of Palo
Alto where Stanford students live.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:36:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't remember noticing it, FWIW.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:37:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

A large fraction of leases begin/end on September 1, and so (if it
exists) if I'm looking for somewhere to live, I should look for
somewhere to live until August if not longer-term (and so something
that ends in June or July will leave me in a relatively inconvenient
place)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:38:12 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Is the september first effect quite so prominent in
the bay area?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:38:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No. The Bay Area housing market doesn't have that issue IME

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:38:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds familiar, which *might* mean that it's real in Berkeley.
Or might just mean I recognize it from here.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:40:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

For reference, my experience so far has been
 a. 2x 3-month lease signed in mid-July with Archstone (so large
corporate landlord)
 b. month-to-month lease signed starting Jan 1
 c. year-long lease signed starting late Feb

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:44:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, yay.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Tue Oct 25 01:44:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(The latter two were signed with individuals, not large corporate
landlords)

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:55:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

There's got to be a product that solves the use case of "I want this
key to be somewhere accessible but protected by a combo lock", right?

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:56:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I can't actually decide what kind of key I think you're talking about

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:56:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Physical.

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:56:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Percolate <kchen>

A safe would do that, but might be overkill.  Or rent a W20 locker.

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:56:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

i,i Safe in SMR

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:56:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, "a locker" suffices but is a bit overkill

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:57:22 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

There are those thingies realtors put on homes they're showing.

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:57:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Oh?

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:57:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: 1/2 Crazy Circulate <kchen>

I think they're called lockboxes.

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:58:10 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

http://www.amazon.com/AccessPoint-Original-Slimline-Pushbutton-Combination/dp/B000GTQU22/

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:58:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Shakedown <kchen>

(Apparently there's a lockbox.mit.edu owned by IS&T that I ended up at
when I attempted to google.)

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 11:58:53 2011 Host: GASTON.MIT.EDU
From: Jonathan D Reed <jdreed>

Yeah, lockboxes exist for ~$15.  They have a kind you can screw in to a door frame, or
with a hasp that fits over a doorknob.

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:00:06 2011 Host: GASTON.MIT.EDU
From: Jonathan D Reed <jdreed>

er, not a hasp.  A hoop, I guess

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:02:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Surprise trick question: I also want to store a card in this manner.

Maybe "a locker" (or really, "a key cabinet") is the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: keys
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:11:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There exist devices like the ones I described that you could just
squeeze a credit-card-size card in to

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:38:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm. So, it's intentional that I'm leaving my _money_ in MITFCU because
I keep it out of the large banks. Should I similarly open my credit
card with MITFCU, or should I open it with a large bank so that I give
the large banks negative money?

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:39:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Or does it not matter, because it's MasterCard or Visa either way?

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:40:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: to liberty and honor <jessiehl>

You may want more than one card.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:41:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

The issuing bank makes money from the merchant by getting part of the
transaction fees.  You would not be giving your issuing bank
"negative money".

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:39:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I forget who the actual issuers is on the MITFCU card, but I don't
hink it's MITFCU per se.  I still have cards with both Citi and
Capital One.  You're not really giving them negative money, instead
your use of it is subsidized by people at the lower end of the
spectrum being charged outrageous fees.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:39:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, I still have my ING account too, and apparently ING is
pronounced "Capital One" these days.   I did at least kill my Chase
card.  I won't kill Amex, because they're the only vaguely competent
bank these days.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:55:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm, should I actually get two credit cards? That sounds painful

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:53:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes.  Ideally on different networks.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:54:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For example, Citi issued me new cards because of fraudulent charges,
but never bothered to tell me about this.  This not only rendered the
cards unusable, but also cut off my online access until the new cards
arrived.  Had I been on vacation and trying to stay in a hotel, I'd
have been screwed without a second card.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:57:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm...is it a good idea to get 2 credit cards at once? I would be
worried that those would step on each other in unfortunate ways

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:57:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not sure about order.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:57:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think I'll go get an MITFCU card 'cause that's easy, and then get
the Amex one

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:57:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Also, re jdreed, "this is why I love my debit card"

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:58:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Although, I guess there was a period of time where the same thing
happened to me, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:56:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Really?  You've clearly never had a merchant fuck up and take all the
money out of your bank account with duplicate charges.

This is precisely why I _don't_ have a debit card.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:58:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

I would expect debit cards to have the same problem.  (Although fwiw,
I had a similar incident with Citibank, except they didn't cut the
card off until they made contact with me.  They left voice mail, and
there was a message online.)

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:59:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

jdreed: In my experience, when I cancelled a card due to fraudulant
charges, the bank continued to accept charges on that card for the next
~week, and forced me to dispute all of them separately.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Which bank?"

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Head Ladies Chain Across <kchen>

In my Citibank case, they just verbally asked me on the phone about a
bunch of transactions, with no paperwork or other hassle involved.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:58:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

YMMV.  But you calling and cancelling and the bank cancelling it for
you are different

Class: geofft Instance: alfredo
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... cream cheese and milk? that works?

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "I put my eigenvector through your mom's critical point last night." - avenerm <jessiehl>

Among other reasons, two credit cards is useful because using less of
your available credit raises your credit score (to a point - if you
don't use some of it, then you aren't establishing a credit history,
which is not good for your score).

Class: geofft Instance: alfredo
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(and butter)

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:43 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

That was a Bank of America Visa

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:00:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate gossip about other people.  It means I was a spectator." - kelch <jessiehl>

Also it means that if you lose one and are busy canceling it and
ordering another, you still have one to use.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 12:58:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Bank of America

There's your problem

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:01:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, see, I feel like not ever using Bank of America

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:01:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The best part was when they said "You need to call the merchant and
cancel the charge." "I have never done business with that merchant."
"Call them anyway."

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:02:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The merchant did, in fact, cancel the charge. But they were very
sketchy, which makes me think that they're operating with the tacit
agreement of the banks.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:02:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "Now you just rule a bunch of people with multiple weapon proficiencies." - diane_c <jessiehl>

I have an MITFCU Visa and UPromise's BoA MasterCard.

I don't much like the BoA part of that, but they've never really
screwed me over, and I like the UPromise benefits of the card (1%
back on all purchases that I make, with more for certain purchases).

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:03:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sides LEFT Split Dixie Diamond <kchen>

The 1% is pretty standard, so if you don't want to deal with Bank of
America, it should be pretty straightforward to get something
different.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:04:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

They eventually cancelled all the charges. It wasn't a big deal, minus
the 1-2 hours of my life I spent on the phone.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:05:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm only good at math that pertains to the deepest of human depravity." - ctsims <jessiehl>

Really?  It seems like many cards have complicated systems in which
you earn points that you can buy specific products with, or get money
back for a different type of purchase each month, or give you rewards
for a program I don't use like some airline's frequent flyer miles.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:05:43 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "Hey!  I got through an entire night without hitting on you!" - tajones <jessiehl>

I'm also reluctant to cancel a card...isn't that bad for your credit
score or something?

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:06:10 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The amount of time you have had the credit card you've had for the
longest time is a factor in your credit score.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:04:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Card issuers do have stupid procedures sometimes.  I had a charge from
a Vietnamese airline on my Amex, and I called them up and said "I
didn't make this charge", and they sent me a form to fill out that
said "submit your receipts to prove you didn't make the charge".
So I gave up and called back and said "I think my card number was
stolen", and they said "OK, no problem"

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:06:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Out-Point Triangle Circulate <kchen>

My Citibank card (that I don't currently use) gives you 1% back on
everything, 5% on rotating categories every quarter, and redeemable in
$50 increments.  (I don't use it because I have an FIA card (owned by
BoA) that gives 2% back on everything, but it's going away and
becoming a real BoA card.)

I wouldn't cancel your other card, but just leave it open, possibly
occasionally making a charge to keep it active.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:06:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

jessiehl: This is the non-FCU card I'm looking at:
http://www304.americanexpress.com/getthecard/learn-about/BlueCash-Everyday
I have no idea whether I'm eligible for it, having no credit, but.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:07:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Relocate the Diamonds <kchen>

I think there are other cards from other issuers that are pretty much
the same thing (including the 5% rotating categories, although the
categories are probably different).

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

3% at supermarkets, 2% on gas and department stores, 1% on everything
else.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:07:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: suffer the dreams of a world gone mad <jessiehl>

You might as well give it a try.  I will warn you that a lot of
places really don't like to give cards to people with no credit
history.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:08:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

When you apply for a card, you should call and ask if you can use the
salary you'll be starting with at MokaFive. I know that BoA let me give
my (July) starting salary when I applied for a credit increase in April
or May or so

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:09:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you don't pirate a movie, the MPAA kills a kitten!" - yoz <jessiehl>

When I first got the BoA card the rep made me justify to her, over
the phone, why I didn't have a credit card until I was 22 (by that
time I had had a card for more than 2 years).  She seemed bewildered
by my continuing to maintain that as an undergrad I hadn't seen any
need for one.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:10:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, I imagine the way to pull this off is to get an FCU credit card
before I stop being a student, and then go and say "haHA! I have
credit!"

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:11:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: that's me in the spotlight <jessiehl>

And MITFCU may start your credit limit quite low if you have no
previous history.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:11:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<People will do anything, no matter how absurd, to avoid facing there own soul. (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

For what its worth, MITFCU wouldn't give me a real credit card when I
was a student, but random internet bank did.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:14:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I got a card when I was a junior, I think.  From MBNA.  They were
happy to accept my "salary" from working 5-10 hours/week and over the
summer.  But that was in the days when, like, your dog could get a
credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:14:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There's also the sketchy MIT alum credit card

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:17:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Check Over <kchen>

Why is it sketchy?  (I don't know anything about it.)

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:15:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I guess I disapprove of their marketing more than their product

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:17:59 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Though at this point, I think card-issuance is just random.  When a
friend of mine (who had been employed at a large pharmaceutical firm
for more than a year and had no bad credit) applied for a Capital One
card, he was offered a $250 limit with a  $75 annual fee.  When
applied a week later for an Amazon Visa, he was offered no fee and a
$10k limit.  Hence, /dev/random

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:23:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm, when was the last game set in a D&D campaign world?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:28:51 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "Atheism is considered "evil" for many reasons. ^_^" - xavid <pbaranay>

Baldur's Gate?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:29:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Wait, there was a Guild game of that?

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:34:33 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "MADNESS? THIS! IS! ASPARTAME!" - ismith <pbaranay>

Yeah, dvp wrote it.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Tue Oct 25 13:35:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<He winks at her. “Later,” he says. “We have to finish training!” (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

It was specifically Baldur's Gate II.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Oct 25 16:47:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

One day I should read through Tanenbaum's @i(Modern Operating Systems)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Oct 25 16:48:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I feel like there's a lot of, well, textbook knowledge that I missed
from 6.828 not having a textbook.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:31:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Still want the "California Girls"/"California Gurls" mashup to exist

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:35:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...it doesn't?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:35:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's disappointing

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:35:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I haven't looked hard.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:37:02 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Ha, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:37:05 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Oct 25 17:53:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm, I was going to buy a replacement for the Tanenbaum that got lost
when my stuff moved from W1 to NW35, and give it to SIPB.  Maybe I should
actually do that.

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Tue Oct 25 18:10:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"If ever there was a subject that was investigated mercilessly during
the early days of operating systems, it was deadlocks. The reason for
this is that deadlock detection is a nice little graph theory problem
that one mathematically-inclined graduate student can get his jaws
around and chew on for 3 or 4 years. All kinds of algorithms were
devised, each one more exotic and less practical than the previous
one. Essentially, all this research has died out, with only a very
occasional new paper appearing (e.g., Karacali et al., 2000). When an
operating system wants to do deadlock detection or prevention, which
few of them do, they use one of the methods discussed in this
chapter.

"There is still a little research on distributed deadlock detection,
however. We will not treat that here because (1) it is outside the
scope of this book, and (2) none of it is even remotely practical in
real systems. Its main function seems to be keeping otherwise
unemployed graph theorists off the streets."

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Tue Oct 25 18:12:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Haha. I think I saw one of those at Plumbers

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Tue Oct 25 18:12:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Possibly 2

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Tue Oct 25 18:22:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

What, deadlock detection algorithms or unemployed graph theorists?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 25 20:00:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> 3-133 for scripts cluedump

Class: geofft Instance: _what_
Time: Tue Oct 25 21:40:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi_sitter_i_Ventrilo_och_spelar_DotA

Class: geofft Instance: _what_
Time: Tue Oct 25 21:43:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

... you learn about this _now_? It's epic. Go listen.

Class: geofft Instance: _what_
Time: Tue Oct 25 21:43:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Also, [[1 + 1 = 3]] is a redirect to [[2 + 2 = 5]]

Class: geofft Instance: _what_
Time: Tue Oct 25 21:52:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dick_Cheney&diff=40221677&oldid=40199933

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Oct 25 23:28:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 02:27:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

sleeping
arguing with atheists on the Internet

"oops"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 02:40:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

/r/atheism?

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Wed Oct 26 02:44:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c70ca00 [CPUFREQ] p4-clockmod: Workaround for CPU's with N60 errata <nelhage>

deadlock detection algorithms, presumably. I bet lockdep makes it
super tempting to drop in your own, better, one.

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Wed Oct 26 02:56:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I never get to use lockdep :-(

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 02:57:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

/r/christianity, which has had a horde of "wtf theism" over the last
week or two, in response to the horde of "wtf atheism" over there over
the last week or two.

Class: geofft Instance: tanenbaum.q
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:05:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hrm, it's pretty trivial to set debug_locks back to on. I wonder if I
can do it via some interface other than "load a module to set it back"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:07:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, that's the forum where I noticed this month that the regular
participants can find themselves downvoted to oblivion for expressing the
kind of worldview that the forum is for.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:08:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Downsides of being in a distinct minority in a much larger discussion
system with a unified account system, partial list.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:09:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's usually fine. But there was a blog post about /r/atheism being
in the default subreddits, and that just did nothing any good. (I
thought it was previously a default subreddit, actually, but.)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:10:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Someone even showed up and asked that.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/lnuxv/why_have_a_community_on_an_open_forum_where_you/

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:15:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(Actually, on rereading, I'm not sure which subreddit you're replying
too, because your claim could apply to both.)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:15:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Anyway, also ttants: sleeping, reading the lockdep code.
-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:20:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

My description?  I'd spotted that happening on /r/christianity.  Have
you seen people say things on /r/atheism that most atheists would agree
with or at least not downvote, and get deeply downvoted?  That surprises
me just based on the demographics I expect.  I'd be interested in seeing
links.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:21:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(As you might have realized, I, ah, have a professional interest in
understanding this phenomenon)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 03:33:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's hard to find documentation retroactively, but I think there was
some really funny business going on with upvotes and downvotes on
/r/atheism/new in the immediate day or two following that post.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 04:01:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  When it happens in comment threads, that generally gets preserved
better.  Have you seen examples there?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Oct 26 11:57:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Have we adequately covered "what's a CVE"?

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:19:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

The hell?

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:18:28 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

I wish that were spectacular bass.  But I think it's just a train.

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:21:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I can't hear it outside the classroom.

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:21:57 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Maybe a truck pulled in to the loading dock?  Is this classroom above
it or something?

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:23:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Huh, maybe.

Class: geofft Instance: stata
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:23:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

But it definitely felt like it was coming from the ceiling

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Oct 26 12:24:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I really wish there were a non-packaging way to specify
config-package-dev stuff

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:16:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Coffeeshops should have Gutenbach-style zephyr notification of the
songs they're playing

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:18:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://twitter.com/#!/grinich/status/128630413013954560

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:23:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

[moving from -i ttants last night]
Hey price, did you see this?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/lpp2o/moderator_announcement_a_brief_review_of/

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Snow this weekend.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait what?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/Cambridge+MA+02139

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. <jhamrick>

Srsly?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/S2Kr8.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:27:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Ripple 1 & 1/2 <kchen>

Hmm, wunderground says "Chanec of Rain" for Saturday.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:28:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

Ah, but the details also say "Chance of Rain" early in the day.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:28:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All Four Couples Right And Left Thru <kchen>

s/Rain/Snow/

Class: geofft Instance: streambase
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:35:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

MIT doesn't have a free StreamBase license (that I can get to), does it?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:41:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

<3 pickaxe

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:43:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Solution: Write a BSD-licensed API-compatible reimplementation of gtk
using text files for all configuration

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:44:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"But now you have two problems."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:44:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"and Xaw"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:44:43 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

"Because you'll totally remember to handle the migration case this
time around."

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:55:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hey zephyr, if you hate the way Debian packages Apache (and a2ensite
and all that fun stuff), now is your chance to have opinions by
becoming a comaintainer!
http://bugs.debian.org/646208

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:57:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

What?  a2ensite is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:57:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's always confused me horribly because it doesn't work like any
other OS's Apache

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:57:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All Four Couples Square Chain Thru <kchen>

I used to dislike the way Debian did things.  I'm not sure what I
think now, since I haven't touched the config in a while, and I was
beginning to understand why they did things that way.  But ==geofft,
13:57.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:58:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Original Heads Partner Trade, Sides U-Turn Back <kchen>

At least in my case, "like any other OS" means if you download Apache
and configure it yourself.  I don't know how non-Debian/non-Ubuntu
distributions configure it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 13:59:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

So I've only ever cared about Apache on Fedora (scripts) and Windows
(my desktop in high school)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:00:16 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Heh, and I've only ever cared about it on Debian. :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:00:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All Four Couples Square Chain The Top To A Wave <kchen>

Oh, I guess I ran it on Windows for a bit, which is equivalent (and I
guess is) downloading Apache itself.

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:07:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... did I just hear "pumpkin latte"?

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:07:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: And yet the menace of the years finds, and shall find, me unafraid. <jhamrick>

Ooooh

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:40:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

The fact that kvm works across hibernate confuses me

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:40:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(that my VM keeps running just fine)

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:40:36 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why wouldn't it? The process gets frozen, saved to disk, and then
thawed, like any other.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:42:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, why should I hate a2ensite?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:42:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 98df7f4 [PATCH] ppc64: iSeries default config update <nelhage>

If your response is "why wouldn't it?", you haven't been using
virtualization and/or Linux *nearly* long enough.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:43:23 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I meant beyond hibernate not working at all. I was asking how is kvm
special?

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:44:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7b9cee1 x86: ia32_signal.c remove unnecessary function calls <nelhage>

hwvirt makes things kinda messy. Although realistically you can
probably just wait until it exists non-root mode for an unrelated
reason and then deal.

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:58:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: kvm
Time: Wed Oct 26 14:58:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Virtualization, therefore it doesn't work"

Class: geofft Instance: beantowne
Time: Wed Oct 26 15:40:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Have you never had a pumpkin latte before? They're awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 26 16:17:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Occupy Wall Street: The Guild Game

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 26 16:18:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

++
"Occupy 34-3"

Class: geofft Instance: else.else.prnf
Time: Wed Oct 26 16:25:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

jaltman is your new bicycle^Wfilesystem

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Oct 26 17:12:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> LEM

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Oct 26 19:02:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Thanks, interesting to see them working through this kind of issue.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Oct 26 21:30:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Paxos vobiscum!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Wed Oct 26 21:32:32 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Peace be with you.  And also with you.  And you.  And you.  And you.  And you.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 21:33:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Naxos vobiscum

Class: geofft Instance: prnf.ttants
Time: Wed Oct 26 21:36:57 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: If you thought the Wizard was bad, just wait till you meet the Warlord!
 <rnjacobs>

Paxos vorbiscum

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Oct 26 23:13:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Why does pkg-ocaml-maint maintain approx??

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Oct 26 23:27:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because it's written in ocaml?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Oct 26 23:49:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It is? I thought it was in perl?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Oct 26 23:50:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

evan@caron:~$ apt-cache showsrc approx | grep Build-Depends
Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 8.0), dh-ocaml, libnethttpd-ocaml-dev,
libpcre-ocaml-dev, libsha-ocaml-dev, libsyslog-ocaml-dev, ocaml-nox

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Oct 27 00:08:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:26:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Theory that occured to me last night:
1. You're not supposed to use a computer within 30 minutes of bedtime
because it makes your body not feel like it's night.
2. You can use a lamp that simulates sunlight to help you wake up.
3. Therefore, you can use a computer monitor that turns on in the
morning to help you wake up.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:26:56 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

different frequencies, no?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:27:31 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

You just need to set your monitor's color temperature right,
presumably?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:27:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

There are different "it's daytime" and "it's still daytime"
frrequencies?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:28:49 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

I thought there were specific "time to wake up now" dawn-induced
frequencies, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:29:34 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Presumably a monitor isn't actually optimized to have the color
temperature of sunlight, so it's less effective than a lamp explicitly
meant to imitate the sun?  But since there exist programs like Flux
that tune your monitor's color temperature to not feel like sunlight,
you presumably could also tune it to be more like sunlight.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:29:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

rowlands: See, color temperature is a software-side concept, and you
still have these three pure-red, pure-green, and pure-blue phosphors
to combine in some ratio, and you'll be using all of them, just in
different magnitudes. So I'm not convinced that color temperature
helps, or helps any more than "use a dimmer monitor at night and a
brighter one at morning" would.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:30:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

i.e., I am scientifically skeptical of Flux's benefit.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:31:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

austein: Yes, it won't drive the sun lamp industry out of business,
but this is simpler, cheaper, and more portable than that solution

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:31:16 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Consider that your eyes aren't a spectrometer, though.  The data your
brain gets from them is just amount of triggering of each of three
types of cone cells.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"if I end up falling asleep somewhere stupid, there's probably a
monitor nearby"

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:31:46 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Each of which is sensitive to a fairly broad selection of frequencies.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:31:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Oh, point.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:32:27 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Which is why it's possible to make photos--on a monitor, or printed
with a three-ink color printing system--look realistically colored,
after all.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:33:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Well, you could hypothesize that our color receptors and our awakeness
receptors are different, but I don't think they are.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 11:34:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I don't think that just your eyes are relevant for the "is-it day?"
spectral response.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 12:42:41 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"Well, you could hypothesize that our color receptors and our
awakeness receptors are different, but I don't think they are."

They may actually be. I think what I learned in 9.01 was that rods, and a bit
of cones, lead most directly to the circadian entrainment centers.
However it looks like recent research has identified photosensitive
*ganglion* cells - that is, not photoreceptors, and not the next level
closer to the optical nerve (bipolar cells), but the *third* level
removed from photoreceptors, right adjacent to the optical nerve. And
they're photosensitive, and play a role in circadian cycles. It's
pretty ridiculous/awesome.

http://www.cell.com/trends/neurosciences/abstract/S0166-2236%2803%2900130-9

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 12:46:40 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

While I'm on the topic of awesome things about vision and circadian
entrainment, there are plenty of blind people who still maintain
light-based circadian entrainment. The circadian entrainment centers
are down off in your brain stem somewhere (I should remember where...)
so all kinds of damage to V1 or later parts in your optic nerve will
leave circadian entrainment perfectly intact.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 13:03:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Huh. Okay. Thank you for the science!

Class: geofft Instance: sleep.else
Time: Thu Oct 27 13:37:41 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that one troll is worth 10,000 newts.
 <rnjacobs>

starkish: I've also read that there are also photosensitive bits that maintain
circadian rhythm in places of high surface blood exposure -- e.g. inside of
elbows, backs of knees -- and that this has been used for SAD therapy without
necessarily being in a big bright box.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Oct 27 15:55:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I feel like I still don't fundamentaly understand Coq.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Thu Oct 27 15:57:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

i,i 'You don't understand Coq until you've proved it correct... in Coq..."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 16:58:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's really weird that Macs don't run Linux

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 16:59:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Not when your mac is right next to an fbsd machine!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 16:59:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah, I guess that's less confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 16:59:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Are you referring to the experiment where they tried that?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 16:59:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... No? My Mac used to run Linux. I'm referring to that Macs do, like,
ssh and stuff, but still aren't Linux

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 17:01:25 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's TV's lovable wisecracking Crow! "Bite me!", he says.
 <rnjacobs>

Are you too young to have experienced the hetereogenous unix landscape?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 17:01:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yes. :-D

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 17:02:22 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A digital clock. It's stuck at 2:17 PM.
 <rnjacobs>

Right. Not so novel for those of us who did.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 17:02:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It was kind of weird going back and forth between IRIX and linux in the
graphics lab ...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Oct 27 17:04:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

i,i Yellow Dog Linux

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Why are there two of me?

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:04:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Haven't we been through this? I remember kaduk or someone mentioning.

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:04:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Student and employee

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:06:52 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I have two of me. It's such a pain. One of me steals the other's
paycheck sometimes.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:08:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I... think I just used git fsck for the first time ever
(to fix a student's repo after he shut down his VM uncleanly)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:08:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

In other 6.858 news, i,i "iframes are chroots for the web"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:11:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"only everything's running as root"

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:12:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"So, after the ASA DB project is done, can we get adehnert to rewrite
SAPweb in Django?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:14:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

There is this thing...

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-iframe-element.html#attr-iframe-sandbox

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:16:53 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The moon is not the only heavenly body to influence this game.
 <rnjacobs>

I'll consider that useful when it's enabled by default :S

Class: geofft Instance: sapweb
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:17:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:19:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I can't imagine that ever happening. I'm sure no end of things will
break if you do that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:21:36 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A winner never quits.  A quitter never wins.
 <rnjacobs>

Yup. Convenience trumps security again.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:21:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It seems wrong to enable it by default...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Oct 27 19:22:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

Cross-iframe communication is awesome!

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:38:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

So, uh, why does anyone care about Oakland?

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:39:03 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

RARRR! ANGRY!! EVIL CORPORATIONS!!!

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:39:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(I can see why we should all be incensed at them trying to kill
American soldiers, and all that fun stuff, I just don't get why
anyone's bothering to occupy _Oakland_ of all places)

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:39:38 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Because there happened to be critical mass of people willing to have
an Occupy?

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:39:57 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I don't think it's, like, a center of the national finance industry or
anything.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:40:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

it's full of factories, I think

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:40:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Right, but if Oakland's saying "We don't want you here, and we're
going to declare war on America if you're here", why don't they
just... occupy somewhere else.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:40:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(Occupy Wall Street makes sense. Occupy Boston kind of does. But
Oakland is no Boston.)

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:40:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Cody R Daniel <fyrrwulf>

It's roughly 2/5 the size of SF.  There're a lot of people who're
rough off, lots of industrial parks and commercial space, lot of lost
jobs.  etc.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:41:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Cody R Daniel <fyrrwulf>

And yeah, history sometimes just happens.  "Why Lexington?" is just as
useful a question

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:42:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I dunno, given the media attention, I think it makes sense to occupy
places even if you're not targeting specific companies with premises
nearby or anything. And if your platform is something like "Tax the
Rich" and you're unwilling to travel long distances, it doesn't much
signify where you choose to make that point.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:44:18 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Oakland is interesting because the BART police (not the Oakland
police) have killed, like, two dudes in the span of two years.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:45:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

that's sort of peripheral to this though. and those protests happened around
Civic Center in SF

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:45:48 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

The one parallel I saw was: "On July 8, 2010, following the verdict,
protests began peacefully,[172] and officials commended both the
protestors and the police for their demonstrated restraint.[173] As
night fell, vandals engaged in opportunistic looting of local
businesses, such as The Foot Locker, a bank, and a jewelry store.[174]
Oakland's police chief was quoted as saying that the people doing
violence did not primarily seem to be Oakland residents protesting the
verdict, but instead were self-styled "anarchists...who are almost
professional people who go into crowds like this and cause problems.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:45:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

Occupy isn't actually protesting the police, despite the fact that they've had a
lot of clashes with them (at least, I don't think it is)

Class: geofft Instance: occupy
Time: Thu Oct 27 20:46:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

On the other hand there are often claims that "professional
protesters" show up at civic centers during other events, e.g.
pro-civil-rights demonstrations or anti-corporate-tax-evasion rallies
-- so maybe the parallel is not exact.

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:27:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's a bad sign when you use so much new age jargon that I can't tell
if you're heretic or not.

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:28:46 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: NYC through 10/26, 11/8-9, 11/17. SF 11/16-18? London sometime. <tibbetts>

Heh. I was looking at a page the other day saying to myself
"could you just come out and tell me if you hate gays?
Please?"

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:30:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Jesus: We believe that Jesus expressed his divine potential and
sought to show humankind how to express ours as well. We see Jesus as
a master teacher of universal truths and as our Way Shower. [... W]e
use the term Christ to mean the divinity in humankind. Jesus is the
great example of the Christ in expression."

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:30:44 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Yeah, that's not so much in question, then.

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:30:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"[Our founders] studied the Bible as history and allegory and
interpreted it as a metaphysical representation of humankind's
evolutionary journey toward spiritual awakening."

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:31:46 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

I believe there are a list of codewords that mean yes or no:
-"lifestyle choice"
-"homosexuals"
vs
-"Reconciling in Christ"
-"Open and Affirming"

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:32:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I'm pretty sure the top-left square centimeter of this page is a
codeword that means no: http://www.firstpaloalto.com/

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:32:59 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: NYC through 10/26, 11/8-9, 11/17. SF 11/16-18? London sometime. <tibbetts>

There are certainly codewords, but when you're dealing with
a nondenominational modern emergent church, they often
avoid codewords.

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:34:08 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul Quimby <pquimby>

Idk... that blue background looks pretty much like the most straight
thing you could have over a church...

Class: geofft Instance: churches
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:36:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I forgot about that church? I think?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:46:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"lolcat concatenates files like the UNIX `cat` program, but colors it
for the lulz in a rainbow animation. Terminals with 256 colors and
animations are supported."

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:46:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

https://github.com/busyloop/lolcat

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:48:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Love the screenshot.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:48:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You realize that this demands to be answered with `nyancat'.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:49:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Sure, just fork sl

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 21:49:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Haha, sl | lolcat

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:01:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

I'm here to report that sl | lolcat looks horrible.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:01:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d48abfe net: em_cmp.c use unaligned access helpers <nelhage>

I'm glad someone tried it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:01:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Thank you for trying.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:05:09 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Maybe if I had run it under stm with the extra option
--make-sl-and-lolcat-work-together.

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.st.pauls.cathedral
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:49:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/27/st-pauls-cathedral-canon-resigns

Class: geofft Instance: occupy.st.pauls.cathedral
Time: Thu Oct 27 22:53:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

1.14% of the world has 100% of the truth - occupy Anglicanism

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Oct 27 23:40:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I can't tell if they're being serious or if it's a "no, of _course_
none of the kids are secretly Cthulhu..."

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Thu Oct 27 23:45:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Run <kchen>

It says no-weird-shit as part of the non-blurby part of the blurb.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Oct 28 00:41:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

:view ALL the zephyrs!

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Fri Oct 28 02:18:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Subject: FBI OFFICE GET BACK TO US IMMEDIATELY IF YOU DONT WANT US TO
ARREST YOU AND JAIL YOU FOR YOUR OWN G0OD

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Oct 28 14:38:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I haven't been on a food mob in a while. CBC or Mary's tonight at
like 6:30, anyone?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Oct 28 14:39:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I might be up for such a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 14:58:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Disturbing realizations: ifup/ifdown is written in Web.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:02:06 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Seriously? The language LaTeX uses, from Literate Programming?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:05:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:07:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Source? I didn't see it in netbase.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:07:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

ifupdown

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:07:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And ifupdown.nw

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:08:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Oh, yup, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:12:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Whoa.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:14:20 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: If you kill the Wizard, you get promoted to demi-god.
 <rnjacobs>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:14:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Honestly? That makes me kind of glad that I'm using NM and not ifupdown
for everything these days :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:19:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Because @i{clearly} being written in a polyglot langauge is worse. :p

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:23:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> The key function we're interested in defining here is
> [[read_interfaces()]], which will (wait for it) read an interfaces
> file.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:24:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I would argue that the form encourages way too much commentary and is
counter-productive because of it

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:27:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Ugh, do GObjects know how to marshal themselves over D-Bus?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:27:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That's not Web, that's Noweb.

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:27:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I guess I should move to another instance

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:27:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(The commentary does go on to make a valid point that
/etc/network/interfaces files are complicated, and that it makes sense
for them to get parsed in one place. But it still took them a while to
make their point, and the point could have been made just as easily by
knowing to follow the call chains)

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:28:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I suspect there's some basic capability there. I know that things like
QSize and QRect and such can marshall themselves

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:29:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(sorry, taken offline by a rogue power strip)
i.e., the literate-programming part but with the actual programming
language being anything of your choice, in this case mostly C.

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:29:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Are you trying to follow how NMConnections get passed around or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:30:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

See also the file extension, .nw, and build-depend, nowebm.

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:30:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:30:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Yeah, and you really do run noweave & notangle to get things going.

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:31:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think you generally do it with nm_connection_to_hash, which returns a
GHashTable

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:31:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I see that.

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:31:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if /mit/geofft/Public/start-network.py still works.

Class: geofft Instance: nm
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:31:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And I don't know, but I'd expect both of the glib bindings to marshall
D-Bus dicts into/out of GHashTables

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:32:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I don't think so

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:33:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That code doens't look like it ever should have worked. NM's methods
are always CapitalizedInitialCamelCase

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:33:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Maybe it worked with 0.7 or something?

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:34:26 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...did that code ever work?

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:35:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

-rwx------ 1 geofft libuuid 699 Sep  8  2008 start-network.py

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:35:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I actually find this even more entertaining than if it were WEB, not
because there's anything wrong with Noweb but because an old professor
(!) of mine is the author (and only user I was previously aware of).

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:36:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

See also 
$ apt-cache show nowebm | grep Homepage
Homepage: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~nr/noweb/

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:36:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I can't find any proof that this would have worked with any version of NM

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:37:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Which, to be clear, includes an FAQ:

Q. I'm having trouble getting noweb to work on Windows XP.

A. Bad news. There used to be a distribution from
literateprogramming.org, but as of January 2010, that domain is no
longer registered, and I don't know where the distribution went.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:38:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

He's missing ifupdown on his users page!
http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/noweb/users/

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:39:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Sample entry: "Mary Fernández used noweb to build UnQL a query language
for structured data. Some people who got her source code were thrilled
because ``nobody had ever given them documented code before.''"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:39:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:39:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess I should drop him a note.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:39:42 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Oh, I've used noweb (though I was introduced to it by an old school
chum of Norman's)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:40:25 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

It has quite a following in a certain part of the algebraic-crypto
community.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:40:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

I think if you're using noweb, you've more or less got the spirit of
WEB in mind -- after all, even Knuth moved to CWEB.

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:50:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Anyway, here's how you'd do that with current NM:

http://paste.ubuntu.com/721840/

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:51:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You could do that more simply if the NMClient introspection bindings
worked, but libnm-glib still uses dbus-glib (not GDBus), which doesn't
have functioning Python bindings

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:52:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Alternatively, "nmcli con up id MIT"

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:53:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

ewwwww

Class: geofft Instance: nm.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 15:56:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't think easy interfacing with NM directly is really a design goal

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Oct 28 16:15:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, time to do something useful with the day

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:40:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

... ... ==rms, and I hate you that you made me say that.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:40:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:54:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

So, is SAP really as poor-quality and confusing everywhere as it is at
MIT, or is MIT just incompetent?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:54:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.  Welcome to the Enterprise.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:55:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I have trouble believing that the best businesses really do run SAP.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:55:17 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

They encyst it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:55:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

I have a biased perspective since I worked for Oracle, but my
impression from working there was "Enterprise everything sucks;
Oracle sucks slightly less than SAP."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:55:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What else would they run?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:55:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

?? Surely it adheres to the customer's specifications and business
requirements, and information workers can receive Training.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:56:11 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

MIT's situation is exacerbated by having (tried to) bashed
SAP into conforming to MIT's homegrown processes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:56:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

But no, I don't think any of this is actually good.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:56:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

Does the Training include how to parse cryptic error messages in
German?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:57:46 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Es tut mir leid! Ihre Datenbank ist Goldfische.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:57:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

The Mostgoodrunbusinessen run SAP.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:58:33 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I mean, I'm sure SAP's literature will happily tell you
how much of the fortune 500 runs SAP.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 17:59:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Oct 28 18:00:43 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Baling wire and chewing gum.
 <rnjacobs>

... "I'm sorry, your database is goldfish" ??

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Fri Oct 28 18:29:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I don't like the way we approach software.

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Fri Oct 28 18:30:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You would prefer more magic?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Oct 28 19:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Uh, anyone know what just happened?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Oct 28 21:16:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I definitely did not just trip over the power cable.

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Fri Oct 28 21:19:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I think the Phantom of the Opera just walked into the cluster?

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Fri Oct 28 21:19:26 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, I thought this class was for squeeing about Xena. - geofft <wings>

:D!

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Fri Oct 28 21:19:32 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Harrvvarrdd?  But I'm /human/. - lexrj <wings>

Take a creepy stalker photo!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Oct 28 21:38:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

Okay, anything interesting I should do on campus?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:36:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

It's kind of amazing that Wikipedia has a recording of Tennyson
reading "The Charge of the Light Brigade."

(But I don't think his voice suits it)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:39:18 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, when was this made?  I hadn't thought he'd lived long enough to
make such a thing...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:40:03 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

1890--I hadn't realized there were phonographs quite that early?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:40:18 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

It was an Edison wax cylinder recording.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:40:24 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

s/was/is/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:40:40 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

And == on his voice, though presumably that's largely due to his age
at that point?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Oct 29 12:41:58 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I can totally imagine afarrell sounding exactly like that at age 80.

Class: geofft Instance: museum-of-science
Time: Sat Oct 29 19:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

lapentab's hair looks awesome when connected to a van de Graaf
generator

Class: geofft Instance: museum-of-science
Time: Sat Oct 29 19:54:23 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Many peoples' do.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:15:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

:-(
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition-tool/response/what-we-have-say-about-legalizing-marijuana

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:17:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition-tool/response/religion-public-square

Wow, these people are bad at this thing.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:18:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

(Or good at this thing, depending on viewpoint.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:21:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petitions
++

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:23:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ef8ab12 [WATCHDOG] mpc83xx_wdt: convert to the OF platform driver <nelhage>

Hahaha, "Actually take these petitions seriously instead of just
using them as an excuse to pretend you are listening" (is that what
you were trying to link?)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:23:49 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

How do these links work??

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:24:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 769d996 Revert "PCI: update bridge resources to get more big ranges in PCI assign unssigned" <nelhage>

I don't understand how the hell "Studies also reveal that marijuana
potency has almost tripled over the past 20 years, raising serious
concerns about what this means for public health" is evidence against
legalizing marijuana.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:24:26 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

I got a stable link to one of them by hitting "retweet". That was the
only thing that seemed to work. http://wh.gov/gKC

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:25:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

I was linking to the top several petitions.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:25:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

*most recent several

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:25:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 408d854 [PATCH] oom: use unreclaimable info <nelhage>

If anything, it strikes me as evidence that we should be *regulating*
the stuff, rather than letting the potency vary with the whims of the
black market.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:25:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

There's a "demand the resignation of the guy who wrote that response"
one, the one you mentioned, and several "regulate alcohol and tobacco
the way we do marijuana" ones.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 20:26:10 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Is there a "only hire drug czars who have daughters who are drug
addicts" petition? I just cannot picture Gil Kerlikowske as anyone but
Michael Douglas in TRAFFIC.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 21:07:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: had we but world enough and time <geofft>

"Within a year God had other plans for the talented couple.[citation
needed]"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 21:11:13 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Piper Hunt: full-time MIT student, part-time Antichrist. - pbaranay <wings>

What is this?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 29 21:59:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, I should find something productive to do. Preferably something
productive that doesn't require a lot of brain.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 29 22:00:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There's a few Scripts F15 tickets.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Oct 29 22:00:14 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

django can probably be easy-fixed.

Class: geofft Instance: museum-of-science
Time: Sat Oct 29 22:18:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Aw man, I missed that.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Oct 29 22:31:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Okay, I don't really understand
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition-tool/response/religion-public-square.
Can I submit a petition to add "possibly" or "some say" before "under
God"? That seems like it would better "recognize and protect the
rights of secular Americans"...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:32:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

right, I should drink liquids

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:43:03 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

"As their daughters grew into their high school years, the Tunneys once
again felt the pull towards family and began to ask God to allow them
more time at home. The Father heard the prayer[citation needed] and
answered by plugging Dick and Mel into their local church's worship
ministry and by expanding Dick's studio role as producer–arranger."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:44:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_and_Melodie_Tunney

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:46:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

The relevant diff is described as "Spelling".
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dick_and_Melodie_Tunney&diff=next&oldid=300095142

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:47:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

That's not entirely inaccurate given the contents of the edit.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sat Oct 29 23:56:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm mostly annoyed they took out the "needs copyediting" tag in the
same edit, since the problem is that the language isn't encyclopedic,
not that there exists a citation that is needed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Oct 30 01:33:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, I have no idea if I let Debian resize my laptop's Windows
partition, or if I did it by hand.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Oct 30 03:22:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Wow, Luigi looked like he was freezing running down Mass Ave. Either
that, or he wanted a good head start to jump on something's head

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Sun Oct 30 03:22:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also, I guess it was a bad weekend for the lambda x: Sexy x series of
costumes.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 15:44:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh right, I'm boiling water

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 15:44:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I _hate_ being too hungry to competently make a meal

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 15:44:55 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I am dangerously close to conlanging because I want more expressive "that's what she said" jokes. - geofft <wings>

Buy granola bars?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 15:45:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

Yeah, that can be troublesome. ==wings

Class: geofft Instance: boston.wwini
Time: Sun Oct 30 16:23:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://www.bu.edu/astronomy/events/public-open-night-at-the-observatory/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 17:58:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, it got dark.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 17:58:27 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's been happening a lot lately.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 17:59:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

Gonna get worse when we do the time warp again...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Oct 30 17:59:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Once a day, even.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:49:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, if you're curious why the frosted glass outside the Department of
Facilities Customer Service Center (that room that you see
immediately inside the building 7 basement entrance) only names two
out of three East Campus Alumni Houses per parallel... take a look at the
linebreaks here.

https://floorplans.mit.edu/cgi-bin-db-any/wdbanyscript.asp?Report=bl&Item=OWNED

Class: geofft Instance: facilities
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:50:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oops

Class: geofft Instance: facilities
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:50:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: facilities.d
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:52:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, I love N9 through N16B.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities.d
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:53:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

OC100 is more awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities.d
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:55:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

yeah, but OC100 is not listed on that page.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities.d
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:56:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I was referring to the descriptions for those specific buildings.

Class: geofft Instance: facilities.d
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:56:54 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I wonder about OC32A/B

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Oct 30 23:57:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hrm. I am ... mildly skeptical of the wisdom of running an unpatched
zookws on a public IP:
[45979.619734] zookfs[13314] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160006.070709] zookfs[25531] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160006.127797] zookfs[25532] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160006.187612] zookfs[25533] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160006.227914] zookfs[25534] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160007.075807] zookfs[25536] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[160013.495693] zookfs[25541] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]
[166239.451998] zookfs[29173] general protection ip:80493c8 sp:bfffd85c error:0 in zookfs[8048000+3000]

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 31 00:05:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Someone's doing that?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 31 00:05:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Did you read Lab 5?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 31 00:06:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

"It's only Monday."

Oh, I see... sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Oct 31 00:11:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I guess I should go port it to the Flask built-in server or something
if I get time.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct 31 01:21:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Did you know that "Leverett" is the name of one of the Houses at
Harvard?  It's next to Mather -- I used to cut through their courtyard
every day.  I still do a double-take when I see the name of your machine.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct 31 01:22:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The house emblem has three rabbits on it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct 31 01:23:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

My laptop only has two. :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 31 10:51:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I just might be an idealist, and privileged enough to be secure in my
idealism.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.lecturer.q
Time: Mon Oct 31 11:50:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Come on, take a guess! You have nothing to lose! Other than your
dignity!"

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:05:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... is it "free rein" or "free reign"?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:05:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

rein

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:08:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

"I can see why people might think it's 'reign', but the expression
comes from talking about horses, not kings."

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:10:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, oops. Typed a little too quickly, then replied to myself and
went "Huh, that doesn't look right"

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:10:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Grand Swing Thru <kchen>

I feel like I've always seen "free reign", but now that you mention
it, "free rein" does make a bit more sense.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:10:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Step Thru <kchen>

Although they're kind of related, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: words.d
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... why did I just type in oed.microsoft.com into my browser?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:12:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

"Free reign" is a very common (and understandable) error.  But "free
rein" is the original/correct phrase.

Class: geofft Instance: words.d
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:13:19 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: words.d
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:13:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... were you trying to use Encarta?

Class: geofft Instance: words.d
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:16:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm not sure!

Class: geofft Instance: sick
Time: Mon Oct 31 13:43:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Anyone around Stata have Sudafed / pseudoephedrine? I left mine at
home today for some reason

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou.wat
Time: Mon Oct 31 14:26:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://isawyou.mit.edu/post.php?id=5600

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou.wat
Time: Mon Oct 31 14:30:39 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "People called Romans, they go the house?!"

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou.wat
Time: Mon Oct 31 14:35:10 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou.wat
Time: Mon Oct 31 14:37:44 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

I'm gonna choose to translate the first comment as "In which farm do
you trot?".

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Oct 31 16:54:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... today's featured article totally had a picture yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Oct 31 16:57:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

The Human Centipede? Why have I seen this film referenced a
half dozen unrelated times over the last 3 months.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Oct 31 16:58:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm just amused at the thought process that led to "oh, yeah, we can
put a screencap on our home page, wahhh censorship" and then "hey
that was a bad idea". One would think they've made this sort of
mistake before.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Oct 31 16:58:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

The south park episode from about three months ago might be the cause?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Oct 31 16:59:01 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

Ah, that's probably it. I need a hiddne marcov model for
internet memes.

Class: geofft Instance: vimrc
Time: Mon Oct 31 17:06:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh hey, I forgot that I have
set laststatus=2
in my .vimrc. It puts a line at the bottom of your screen saying what
file you're editing, which is great if you have more vertical space
than attention span.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Oct 31 17:37:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I wonder if I'll be far enough on other work to be comfortable saying
"I'm going to talk about $project after the meeting, in case you
missed the cluedump or have more questions"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:28:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Apparently I'm on next-exec-alumni?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:28:26 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Yeah.  We restructured the mailing lists.  All old Next Exec members
are on -alumni.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:30:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"You'd have known this if you ran my mail list stalking scripts!"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:30:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I noticed I wasn't getting dormspam any more, so I figured I got
punted from -exec and therefore -forum. I just didn't notice the
existence of -alumni

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:29:44 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

-alumni is not on -forum for the sake of your sanity.  :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:31:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, I was sad while I was actually on exec that I couldn't remove
myself from next-forum.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Oct 31 18:54:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark]
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/34/reign/

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 20:04:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Aww, you don't let me use my own kernel? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 20:11:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(also, presumably you don't use an initrd?)

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 21:01:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6781fde [UDPv4]: Pass correct socket to ip_mc_sf_allow. <nelhage>

kexec!

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:21:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Doesn't work on Xen...

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:26:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7741c39 [SCTP] Fixes for gcc 3.2 compiler issues and warnings. <nelhage>

sofixit

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:26:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f4e96de V4L/DVB (12756): af9015: fix typo in register compare <nelhage>

;)

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:28:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a7fc948 qlcnic: mark device state fail <nelhage>

Really, kexec-on-xen seems like a great solution to Xen VPS's that
don't allow custom kernels. I don't know why no one's Just None It
yet :)

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:37:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I think it's vaguely impossible?

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:38:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 388d6c5 [CPUFREQ] Whitespace cleanup <nelhage>

Since when did that stop anyone? :)

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:38:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b004157 [GFS2] Fix journal flush problem <nelhage>

Why is it impossible?

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:41:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I don't think Xen supports a "reset me to boot state" operation the
way x86 does?

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:43:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Like, the loader looks at the kernel and allocates memory for it
based on the ELF structures in it, and you start with paging on, and
either with PAE or long mode, and I _think_ not all physical memory
contiguous. It doesn't go "here's n megabytes of RAM with paging
off^W^Wno such thing as paging, have fun"

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:48:57 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a DVD of "Crouching Monkey, Hidden Kitten", region encoded for the moon.
 <rnjacobs>

Isn't there grub for xen? (Does that even count as a counterexample at all?)

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:49:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

There's a thing called "pygrub", which is "parse menu.lst in the host
and find the resulting kernel". There's a thing called "pv-grub",
which is "create a domain, run GRUB in it, and return the kernel and
initrd; then create another domain with the results"

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:49:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

As I understand it, at least. I'm not positive.

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Mon Oct 31 22:54:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

At last UDS, cjwatson said that he had figured out how to make a Xen a
target of real honest-to-god Grub2

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Oct 31 23:18:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, I have successfully used the phrase "soteriology and
magisterium" in an e-mail, I think it's time to go home

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Oct 31 23:34:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

1% OF THE PRINT QUEUES GET 99% OF THE PRINT JOBS

OCCUPY MITPRINT

Class: geofft Instance: nw35
Time: Mon Oct 31 23:38:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... fire alarm with two trucks and a van, wat?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:16:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

melatonin'd. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:22:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... huh, that _was_ melatonin, right?
I seem to be warmer and wide awake.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:22:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm hoping that's secretly "I'm sick"/"the heater started working" and
"I was looking at a laptop"

Class: geofft Instance: nw35
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:24:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

wait, why do you know when we have fire alarms?  Were you passing by
nw35 for some reason?

Class: geofft Instance: nw35
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:25:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

SafeRide.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:49:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... okay, confused.

Class: geofft Instance: nw35
Time: Tue Nov  1 00:51:00 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(That's actually a pretty normal amount of stuff for a fire alarm.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  1 13:24:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

awake?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:50:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hey Zephyr, do you have thoughts about the student center?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:51:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"Don't put card readers on the doors"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:51:41 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

They should take that room in the basement between the one hair salon
and the other hair salon, and do something with it.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:51:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

quentin: why?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:52:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:52:14 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Also, if they brought the bowling alley back, that would be totally
slick.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:52:22 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The first commercial airline flight took to the air in 1914. Everyone involved screamed the entire way. <asedeno>

mherdeg: How about using it as a barber shop :)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:53:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Split Counter Coordinate <kchen>

It sounds like there's not something currently there?  What was
previously there?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:53:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: Lots of semi-crufty people involved with student groups who
don't have cards. (Yes yes, I know there are various long, difficult
processes they can use to acquire one)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:53:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

mherdeg: There continues to be a bowling alley in the basement of
Walker, used as a storage room now.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:53:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Like, get an alum id?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:54:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

lizdenys: That's difficult for people who have real jobs that aren't in
downtown Boston.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:54:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

?!! There's a bowling alley / storage room??

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:54:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

quentin: What's wrong with "make that process less long and
difficult"?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

They don't... expire? I'm also unconvinced that people in not Boston
want access that much?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

If you have a specific story of how it's been long and difficult,
that's actionable

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

But I think geofft has the right answer to this.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:51 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I think Alcor has complained that she can't get one because her job
keeps her from being on campus during business hours.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Bend the Line <kchen>

It seemed like people on -c assasin kept having issues with finding a
good time to get an ID card when Pharos was deployed.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:58 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I'd assume this is an issue for other people?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:55:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> lizdenys: That's difficult for people who have real jobs that aren't
> in downtown Boston.

I... really? "Make it to W20 once during business hours" is
prohibitive? Or am I underestimating the difficulty of the process?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:56:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, "we have members that can't get to the card office during
business hours" sounds like a reasonable complaint.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:56:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"Make it to W20 during business ouhrs" is prohibitive, yes. (It also
doesn't work for people who can't get Alum cards - I'm not clear on
whether someone who didn't graduate can get an Alum card)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:56:44 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

It's been on my todo list for about 6 years

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:57:05 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

I didn't know it had moved to w20, it used to be in
E-something.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:57:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

It sounds like request an alum ID via mail should be supported or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:57:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

It did sound like the proposed locked hours mentioned somewhere on
zephyr previously weren't very restrictive though, so it seems like
it might be a substantial problem.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:57:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

==lizdenys, if there were a by-mail way to do it, that would suck a lot
less

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:57:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I'm not convinced that non-students, non-alums should have access by
default. (Hell, even on alums after some hours this makes less sense)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:58:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Peel to a Diamond <kchen>

s/might be a substantial/might not be a substantial/

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:58:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Having card access during hours similar to when status requires card
access doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, okay, I guess that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Diamond Chain Thru <kchen>

If by "status" you mean "Stata", I've been finding that the
Vassar/Main entrance doesn't require cards to enter at any hour (at
least, any hour that I've tried).  But at least some other entrances
do.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

lizdenys: I'm not convinced you can come up with a useful rule about
when alums need card access to W20. I suspect it varies greatly
depending on the alum and the student group.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I meant Stata, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: 2/3 Recycle <kchen>

Also, some student groups hold many public events in W20 after 6 PM.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Okay, so make it after 11 or something

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 14:59:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Switch to an Interlocked Diamond <kchen>

But the previous times I heard were something like 1-5 AM, which would
be fine.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:00:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The hours I heard were ... ==kchen.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:00:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Another big thing is that conference cards/summer program cards don't
have general campus access. This will be a big issue come next summer.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:00:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I guess I just don't subscribe to alums should be really, really heavily
involved in student groups.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:00:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't think I've ever heard 6PMish being proposed for W20.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:00:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

And I feel like those that are probably can manage getting a card
sometime.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:01:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We can bring that up too.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:01:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, "1-7 am or less" sounds reasonable. Stata's "5pm to 9am, also
weekends" is actually annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:02:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(Again, the right thing is to make that suck less (give the summer
programs general campus access), but that hasn't happened despite
earlier complaints.)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:02:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Is there a serious proposal? There are certainly parts of W20 that
offer services to the public after ours. E.g MITSFS is a library open to
the public that's frequently open to nearly midnight.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:02:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

s/ours/hours/

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:02:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

BTW, many of the conclusions from the W20 cluster card access attempt
probably apply to this as well.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:02:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Interlocked Diamond Circulate <kchen>

There were multiple conclusions?  I think I've only heard it was too
expensive to deploy everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:03:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It was too difficult to get the card office to enable "all the cards"
for access.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:03:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But when it's annoyed me (SIPB Ubuntu event) we called Facilities and
got them to unlock the building, and CAC said that's an option for W20
similarly

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:03:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Is there a serious proposal? There are certainly parts of W20 that
       offer services to the public after ours. E.g MITSFS is a library open to
       the public that's frequently open to nearly midnight.

Yes. This was discussed last meeting.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:03:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(AIUI, they refused to turn on summer program cards en mass, or
something like that)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:03:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

How does Verdes feel about this policy?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:04:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Dunno. CAC didn't mention it; Verdes wasn't at the meeting...

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:04:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Interlocked Flip the Diamond <kchen>

Can CAC convert holiday closings to just W20 locked 24 hours during
holidays?  (I did see holiday closings mentioned on the agenda posted
elsewhere.)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:05:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:05:39 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

It's worth pointing out that--unlike Stata--the clubs that use the
Student Center are going to use it the most at times that aren't 9-17
weekdays.  But if the locked time is only going to be 1-5 or 1-7, I
suspect that most student groups wouldn't be affected?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:05:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:06:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

If you mean "and cardholders can still get in", I think that's not the
plan.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:06:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

Oops, yeah, I did mean "and cardholers can still get in."

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:07:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

If you mean "they're not chaining the doors because there are locks
that actually work", that is the plan.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:07:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm pretty sure they're aware, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:07:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

jhawk: Closing W20 befre midnight isn't on the table, aiui

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:08:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I've even heard "3-5". The point is to make W20 less suitable for use
as aa homeless shelter, that's it.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:09:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

So one homeless person has to come in before 3... then lets everyone
else in...

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:10:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I think they try to sleep, not party.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:10:15 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I suspect that this isn't actually that big a deal.  Though "make it
more convenient to get alum IDs" might be a good goal for other
reasons (and it might sake sense to use this to push for that?), this
doesn't seem like something that actually is a huge issue.

(I assume the homeless shelter issue is to be solved by having campus
police sweep the building when they lock the doors?)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:10:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Getting alum IDs is hard?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:10:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<The audience immediately forgives the sinning priest for all his venal incidents. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

Plausibly it's something like "if the MIT police kick out a homeless
person in the middle of the night, they can't trivially get back in".
(==rowlands)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:10:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass the Ocean <kchen>

fwiw, I've heard from Mitch that the card office used to be open late
(maybe until 7 PM) once a week or once a month or something, but
people didn't show up.  But being able to schedule late appointments
might also be useful.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:11:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Right, given other parts of campus that want IDs (Stata, 56/66,
Pharos), "alum and affiliate IDs should be easier to get" sounds like
the right answer.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:12:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

One approach to thatcould be toj pick up your ID from the police
station.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:14:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Ooh, that's a great idea, if the CPs go for it.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:17:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(since they're open 24 hours and presumably know how to check people's
existing IDs at least as well as the card office...)

Yeah, this is a random idea, dunno if it's fasible. There's also the
"bug the CAC manager on duty" approach, in terms of people who are
here 24 hours.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:18:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

rowlands: This is an automatic lock, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:18:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

kchen: I can ask about that, I'd like the ability to get to W20-575A
during Thanksgiving/Christmas (even though I've never seen us need to
use it).

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:19:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm pretty sure I wanted it at one point?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:19:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

quentin: Huh, okay, do you have more info? Is this just RSI, or does
this affect other programs (whether WTP etc. or stuff like "id Tech
Camps", whatever that is)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:20:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

kchen/lizdenys: Stata is a special case because 26-0 -> 32-0 never
requires an ID... but see above, the point is to keep out unsavory
characters, not affiliates who know anything about MIT other than
"ooh, a roof and a couch"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:22:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

> They should take that room in the basement between the one hair
> salon and the other hair salon, and do something with it.

The thing I've always heard is that's available to be rented out to
vendors as soon as a vendor shows up, so they can't do useful things
that involve promising the room will be there. The new Basement
Meeting Room somewhat invalidates this argument, but it's easier to
repurpose a meeting room than, say, a student group office.

That said, isn't that room MIT Optical these days?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:30:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I really should learn at some point that showing up to class late is
about as productive as not showing up at all. I have no idea what's
going on

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:32:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: I believe RSI and MITES are both affected by this. I don't know
about WTP (but other people on your class probably do), and I suspect
that Interphase doesn't have this problem (I think they get their
regular IDs?)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:32:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The party line from the card office is that you need to ask the
individual building managers to give access, and the party line from
the building managers is that you need to ask the card office for
general access.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:43:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Dear world: Please keep yelling at me to get my work done. I have too
much to do

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:44:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

what are you working on now?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Nov  1 15:46:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"trying to pay attention to lecture"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Nov  1 16:15:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

hey geoff,

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Nov  1 16:15:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I mostly mean people who need me to do things, but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: dumbest-rsvp-ever
Time: Tue Nov  1 16:24:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://gsc.mit.edu/programs-initiatives/graduate-community-space/forum-on-graduate-community-space/

Class: geofft Instance: dumbest-rsvp-ever
Time: Tue Nov  1 16:24:37 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "That's no RSVP, that's a web survey!!"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:03:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Phil Walsh says that because we have a new executive VP/treasurer,
they're looking at all these sorts of projects and the money might not
be released immediately, so we're not talking about the doors tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:06:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

[stark] I don't think this would matter or not matter much for WTP
(depending on the specific timing) since they have a stay within McC
curfew.  (that said Stata/Medical atrium card access would be
useful...)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:07:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

and they don't have that?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:08:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

no, they don't have anything besides McC.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.2
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:09:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hey zephyr, what do you think about the airport lounge (W20-2)?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Have you watched TV there? Should there be a TV there?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pass In <kchen>

I found it convenient for watching Watson on Jeopardy!

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

==kchen, basically.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Load the Boat <kchen>

But that's really the only reason I've used it.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It was a great place to sit and watch TV while eating lunch

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:43:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(Though it was annoying that 90% of the chairs had people camped out
who weren't using the TV)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:43:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:42:42 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I found it more useful before the TV.  It was vaugely quieter

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:43:46 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I avoid it because I can't tune the TV out and have never actually
wanted to use the TV.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:44:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'd personally use it more if there were no TV and more lighting,
==kdrinkwa/jdreed. You actually use the TV?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:43:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Aren't TV's obsolete now with IPTV?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:45:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Which, BTW, is coming to students RSN

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:45:54 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I've never used that lounge at times other than lunchtime. I suspect
the dynamic is different when W20 isn't full of people.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:46:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

jdreed: Have they figured out their cost recovery model yet?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:45:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:46:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

quentin: Huh, okay, how about "TV doesn't turn on past 4pm"?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:46:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

"then how will we watch Watson on Jeopardy?"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:45:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, it's still in "pilot" phase.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:47:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Half Breed Thru <kchen>

fwiw, when I watched Watson, one day I watched at work, one day I
watched at home, and one day I watched in the lounge right before Tech
Squares.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:47:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

jdreed: "Uh huh."

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:48:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Ads!

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:47:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, it's Comcast.  "They have plenty of money".  But my
understanding is that this will eventually replace mitcable

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:49:57 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Whoo, LAMP for all Comcast users in New England.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:49:24 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's IP ACL'd

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:51:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Which system is this, the set-top-box one or the locked-down-software
one?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:51:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This is the Silverlight-based standalone app.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:51:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The STB is still, uh, Falls Earth?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:53:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

No, the STB was also Comcast. The Falls Earth thing was 2 STB projects
ago.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:52:31 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Which STB?"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:52:40 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The Scientific Atlanta STBs?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:53:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Maybe? "The one that's on jward's desk in W92"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:53:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Huh, ok.  I dunno

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:53:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Ask Stuart, I'm on vacation"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:53:36 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We'll know more over the next few weeks, I'm told

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:54:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

How is this different from the last N times we've been told the same
thing?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:54:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Uh, we haven't been told that.  Comcast explicitly said "NO STUDENTS"
for the past 2 months

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:55:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

At the staff meeting today, they said Comcast has worked out "Security
issues" (I don't know; don't ask) and is now ready to do some student
testing

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:56:07 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

"ability to bill individual students/rooms"?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:56:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, CACAB seems to be focusing on "How do we get Sweet Tea the ability
to brew tea". So far we've discussed running hot water on W20-4 and
tea trees on W20-6.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:55:56 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What is Sweet Tea as a proper noun?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:56:55 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I'm here to kill you, not to judge you! - $vampire, Buffy <wings>

A person

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:56:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

USER:sweettea

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:56:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

Does the kiln room in W20-4 not have hot water?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:57:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right Roll to a wave <kchen>

(Although if it does, I suppose that's not the intended use case.)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:57:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I sometimes have hot water in 470.
I ... would not trust it to be potable, but it is hot.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:57:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

kchen: The SAA is not a student group. You don't want to go down that
road.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:57:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Circulate <kchen>

I guess you usually want hotter water than tap water anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 17:57:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Right, there's also "bathrooms"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:03:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

kchen: I can ask about that, I'd like the ability to get to W20-575A
during Thanksgiving/Christmas (even though I've never seen us need to

One year we emailed Mike Foley a list of people who should have access
during the building closure and he dutifully forwarded it on to the CPs,
and I'm sure we would have been fine with access had we needed it.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:03:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

err, that first paragraph was supposed to be quoted/indented or something.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:04:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, Mike Foley said that it hasn't been a problem in the past,
and people have needed access like once every five years.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:04:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

And they'd rather not make it possible for groups to be ~regularly
active, since then they'd want CAC staff people around the building,
which defeats the purpose of closing.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:05:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Personally, I think the closing is bullshit. IMO they should leave the building open
like all other MIT buildings and not worry about the staffing.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:06:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

I don't think they'd be ~regularly active, since MIT is pretty quiet
around that time in general.  Although I never really understood why
CAC closes the building anyway -- what would their staff need to do?
(I could see things like cleaning people being necessary, although if
it's only closed for a few days, not much cleaning needs will build
up.)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:06:13 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==kchen, I've never understood why W20 is "special"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:06:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Other than I guess it's pseudo-public?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:17:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:19:10 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

I wonder ... do the CAC W20 holiday closures predate MIT's holiday
shutdowns?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:19:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

I thought that "we're not gonna have Facilities around for the period
around the holidays" was a fairly recent innovation.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:19:49 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

http://tech.mit.edu/V123/N61/61closing.61n.html

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert.q
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:20:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Searching for geofft is such a bad idea"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:20:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Cross Trail Thru <kchen>

Didn't MIT only close down once?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:21:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

Oh, maybe it really was just a Special Campus Closing.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:48:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

From: MIT GSC <"[gsc-noreply@mit.edu]"@scripts.mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:49:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:48:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:49:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Now I feel less bad about the ASA forms sending unqualified e-mails to
foo-officers@scripts.mit.edu instead of foo-officers@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:49:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Lead Right <kchen>

I suppose anyone who tries to reply will get the same result either
way.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:50:47 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Replying to an existant but not configured @scripts.mit.edu address
will make scripts-team sad.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:53:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Veer Left <kchen>

Presumably [gsc-noreply@mit.edu] doesn't exist as a @scripts.mit.edu
address.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:52:48 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'll go create that locker...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Nov  1 18:54:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: 3/4 Tag <kchen>

Oh, I guess the quotes are part of the address too.  (Maybe?)

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:07:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Geez, GSP, your Aline is _loud_

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:27:47 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

FWIW, APO for several years while I was active really needed to get to
its space during Christmas and couldn't which caused problems for us.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:30:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I somewhat suspect that there's a "we needed to get to the space, and
didn't think we could, and didn't", and would like to document that. I
also suspect there's a "we don't need to get to the space, but it
would be awfully nice" that is worth _not_ encouraging

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:30:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't really buy the "We only have people comingto us once every five years,
trying to get in during a closure" argument for "This wouldn't be useful".

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:31:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's not clear to me *why* they need to be staffed, have shops open,
etc. whenever it's unlocked.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:34:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So is debexpo now running entirely not on XVM?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:51:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"The IFC is a governing... government"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:52:22 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"They govern! Governmentally, even!"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 19:53:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, the reason *I* was laughing at that was the contrast to the LGC,
which is... not a governing government.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:15:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i will say that one of the major things that the IFC would like
adressed (which so far hasn't) is the fact that there is no student
governance or accountability structure for dorms.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:22:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

stum: What functions would this structure have?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:29:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Dean Road. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i think some of the specific things that we're looking for are risk
management policies/procedures, and enforcement of violations.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:29:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm confused about the context, are we talking in general, or with
regards to ua-structure, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:30:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Copley. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

well, if we're talking about the UA absorbing dormcon...

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:30:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Dormcon does that now?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:31:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Government Center. The destination of this train is: Lechmere. <stum>

like, this is something that we want to happen in general, right? so
the whole talk about restructuring seems like it could/should include
this.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:31:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Washington Street. <stum>

no, it doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:32:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

OK, I guess.
Why does the IFC care? (And why is, like, Housing insufficient?)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:32:40 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "bwahahaha!  you'll never escape my humidifier!" - riv <pbaranay>

There's a reason it's called *student* governance.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:32:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

You never hear about halls getting in trouble for alcohol or hazing...

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:32:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

we care because we feel like the residents of the dorm communities
should have to be accountable for their actions.

and ... housing isn't currently doing anything.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:33:06 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "This is all working towards my getting a PhD in controlling your thoughts" - dmariel <pbaranay>

kdrinkwa: What point are you trying to advance by stating that?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:33:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

To be fair, the insurance aspect is very different.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:33:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

But I guess ILGs somehow got around that. i,i or they have less fun (not
really)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:33:53 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I don't really have a point. I am curious what stum wants adn why he
wants it, not because I think he is wrong, but because I'm ignorant.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:34:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Paul: Yes, but the dorms exist because Housing wants them to exist,
not because the students want them to exist. I think the point of the
argument is that the dorms should _not_ have inter-dorm student
government, because it makes no sense.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:35:30 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Are the residents of dorms not accountable for their actions??

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:36:07 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

@kdrinkwa 20:32: Do you think they really do have fewer problems with
alcohol or hazing?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:36:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

geofft: I could agree with that more if housing didn't know just how
much it needs the FSLIG community to function (ie. not be INCREDIBLY
overfull)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:36:43 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "bwahahaha!  you'll never escape my humidifier!" - riv <pbaranay>

Geoff: So what group should handle issues such as REX or dining?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:36:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Catherio: I really doubt it's that different.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:36:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

As a parallel, there's a point to the ASA representing student
groups. There's not a point in an association of "Students in Course
n" groups, because the courses exist because the Institute wants them
to exist.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:37:39 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "Clearly the solution to everybody's problems is leg holsters." - vvega <pbaranay>

kdrinkwa: ==lizdenys, and I can definitely think of halls that haze.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:38:04 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Ok, that was my intuition too. So then my retort is roughly "The fact
that you *don't* hear about dorms getting in trouble for these things
is in fact a problem"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:38:28 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "PLEASE TYPE LOUDER, I CAN'T HEAR YOU." - ismith <pbaranay>

Geoff: That's a terrible parallel, and I disagree with it, also.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:38:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah, the implicit second half of my statement, which I should have
made explicit, was "but we don't know if that's due to less problems
or less reporting, and I have a hard time believing it's due solely to
less problems".

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:39:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I'd be in favor of the (still hypothetical) Dormitory Affairs
Committee overseeing risk management policies/procedures, and
enforcement of violations.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:40:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

> Geoff: So what group should handle issues such as REX or dining?

I don't see what that has to do with governance. That has to do with
advocacy.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:40:33 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

... well, on second thoughts, enforcement of violation is hard =/

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:40:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I definitely agree that there should be dorm _advocacy_ groups, but,
like, the Moral Majority is not an evangelical synod. (To pick another
poor example.)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:40:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I feel like giving REX over to admins and then advocating on it is a
Mistake.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:40:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Mary's Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

catherio: not intractable, though. there is already a working model...

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:41:09 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"Hard" is oversimplifying what I mean

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:41:36 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "What good is religion if it doesn't help you conquer the world?" - armenard <pbaranay>

*rubs temples* That is an interesting position to take, that what we
call student advoacy and student government are separable. I sort of
see your point, but you are really splitting hairs. Also, what
lizdenys said.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:41:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Liz: I guess I'm not sure what Paul meant by "REX". I assumed this is
"REX should exist and interact with other parts of orientation", not
"how do we run REX"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:41:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

What I mean is that, if we make DormCon's existing functions happen
under a Dormitory Affairs Committee and a Dormitory Funding Committee,
then are *those* really the right places to do enforcement?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:42:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Paul: Well, that was the original claim, that out of the things we
call student government, the IFC is the only one that governs. (And,
I'd argue, the ASA, "but that's different")

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:42:43 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brookline Hills. <stum>

Panhel...

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:42:51 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "ah, you're the *evil* clone, I see" - mats_a, to pbaranay <pbaranay>

How does Panhel not govern? Because their rules are already stiuplated
for them -- what stum said.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:42:54 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

==geofft.

I also think this is sort of the sentiment people express when they say
"The UA has no power" or "The UA doesn't do anything"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:42:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Where by "IFC" I mean "IFC/Panhel/LGC". Or "IFC/Panhel", or something.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:43:06 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "I overfilled your mom's hbox last night" - shawest <pbaranay>

Mm.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:43:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Panhel handles many fewer disputes, but can also actually govern.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:43:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I think a lot of what they mean is "The UA doesn't make rules and
enforce them on anyone"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:43:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

The UA certainly does not govern undergraduates, in the "hold them
responsible for their actions" sense. And should not.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:43:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Right. The "only" thing the UA does is fund and advocate. They don't
"do" anything. =P

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:10 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "_Some_ of us actually eat food on a _regular basis_, Ash." - yukikaze <pbaranay>

But the UA ought to hold faculty/admins accountable.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:18 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

They sure as hell can't hold the administration accountable for their
actions, which ... wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... how? It doesn't hire them.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:40 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Not in the way the IFC holds fraternities accountable

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:46 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "My standing policy is to endorse all violence, on the condition that it is hilarious." - dvp <pbaranay>

Students are stakeholders in MIT. The administration is accountable to
them. (I'll let "hold faculty accoutnable" slide.)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

The UA can _advocate_ that certain faculty or admins hold other
faculty or admins accountable for certain things.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:44:53 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

pbaranay: I think that's equivalent to advocacy, given the only way
they can do that is to make a point of saying "You broke your promise
on this." loudly to the student body.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:12 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Right. It's "hold accountable" in the "we deem you to be accountable"
sense, not in the "and now you'll face the consequences" sense

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But the UA does not get to say "listen to us, or we will fire you",
the way that the IFC(/Panhel/LGC) or ASA can say "listen to us, or we
will make you cease to exist".

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Heath Street/VA Medical Center. <stum>

my statement was that there needs to be a similar body that holds
students who reside in dorms (or the dorm itself/some subset)
accountable for actions that are violating institute policies or risk
management policies.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:49 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"And the UA sure as hell doesn't have the power to make students cease
to exist"

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

And so my argument is that nobody can go to a dorm or a hall and say
"listen to us, or we will make you cease to exist" with the exception
of Housing.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:45:54 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Isn't that body essentially administration, though?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:46:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Copley. <stum>

not really... maybe in theory, but not in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:46:09 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

As I recall, some undergraduates at MIT were able to exert a lot of
influence in what faculty and administrators did, by providing really
cogent ideas at Institute committee meetings.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:46:19 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

stum: So what do you think we can do to make it so in practice?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:46:30 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

(Given that only Housing can actually impose the most serious
consequences on dorms)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:46:54 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "To be an engineer is to live constantly in the knowledge that this could be better." "I thought that was part of being human." - kevinr, tibbetts <pbaranay>

Then the UA should acquire more power. Things could be written such
that the UA must be consulted, etc. Or, more indirectly, things could
be written such that (for an example*) the Dean of Student Life must
meet with the UA President every week.

*which is in effect at Notre Dame

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:47:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That is a serious restructuring of the entire political dynamic at
MIT, if it is to be useful.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:47:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Haymarket. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

well (and this is me thinking entirely on my feet), there could be a
student run judicial commmittee that could recommend to housing:
"these students may not live together any more," "these students will
go to CoD," etc.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Last time we did that, someone died.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:09 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

I thought you still do that?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

We never got it off the ground

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Government Center. The destination of this train is: Lechmere. <stum>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:35 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

But, but, http://simmons.mit.edu/judcomm/judcomm_faq.html -- that's
not a real thing?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Dean Road. <stum>

geofft: someone died?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:37 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Geofft: When/what was this thing that didn't get off the ground?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:48:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

mherdeg: Individual dorms have Judcomms. Random has one, too.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:49:41 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Was an all-the-dorms judicial committee responsible for the chocolate
chip cookie suicide? I thought that was just Random's student
committee.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:49:57 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "Bow before me, for I am citing TVTropes in a paper I'm writing." - ismith <pbaranay>

geofft: And I think that would be a hell of a lot more useful than the
continued debates about DormCon et al.

Ultimately, I think this route involves semanticsing yourselves out
of being politically useful.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:50:21 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Never heard it called that before. It was just UA Judcomm I believe

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:50:28 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

*Random Judcomm

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:50:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

What *was* the chocolate chip cookie suicide?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:50:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

stum: The reason that DormCon JudComm does not exist (which is the
only body that allows individual dorms' JudComms to be more
interesting than, say, Baker's JudComm having authority to go into
people's rooms to turn off their alarms when they're on vacation) is
the suicide of Julie Carpenter and the mishandling of that by Random's
and DormCon's JudComms.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:51:09 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

See http://tech.mit.edu/V123/N27/27carpenter.27n.html and
http://tech.mit.edu/V123/N27/27carpenterside.27n.html for example.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:51:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Chestnut Hill. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

well, if something happens, like, the exec of a dorm is very clearly
sponsoring an event that violates institute policy (like, say, alcohol
during CPW), other students in the dorm community should take
responsibility for dealing with that, because housing clearly is not.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:51:23 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Also http://tech.mit.edu/V126/N36/36timeline.html

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:52:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

catherio: Uh, my... junior? year? OSC/CDSA decided it was time to
restart DormCon JudComm, we never really got enough people to go
through OSC/CDSA training for a useful DormCon JudComm to exist. At
that point, you would have a JudComm that actually has the ability to
take in cases at the dorm level and escalate them to DormCon's or to
OSC/CDSA or elsewhere as appropriate

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:53:15 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "HI PDRUNKANAY" - ismith <pbaranay>

Could we return to my earlier point about how this seems like the UA
semanticising itself out of useful existence?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:53:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Hynes Convention Center. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

well, i mean ... just because it failed once means that there's no way
we can ever do something like this again ever? that seems ... not
right.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:53:48 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I think it's worth considering, but I think it's made harder by the
reality that only Housing has ultimate authority over very serious
consequences to dorms

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:53:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It means the Institute had a reason to Really, Really Care about how
much the dorms can self-govern, and imposed things that restricted
whether DormCon could actually choose to self-govern.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:54:08 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

pbaranay: What about it?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:54:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(You might recall the last time the Institute decided to Really,
Really Care about how fraternities run things, and how old you have
to be to move off campus. No amount of self-governance by the
fraternity system could have changed that.)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:55:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Paul, I think there's definitely a valid existence in the UA if it
decides that the only useful things it does is Nomcomm and Finboard.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:55:29 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "the committee for truth in zephyring" - kaduk <pbaranay>

You are all looking way too small if your best hope for change is to
rearrange the moving pieces of UA, DormCon, IFC, Panhel, LGC.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:56:13 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Just say "deck chairs" if you mean it!

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:56:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I mean, my best hope for change involves going off and becoming rich
and coming back with five hundred million dollars in hand and telling
the UA or whatever it is at the time "All right, how do we fix the
political dynamic here".

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:57:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

My best hope for change that does not involve becoming a rich alum
involves admitting that absent money the only thing we can do is
advocacy within the existing political dynamic.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:59:04 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "One monkey in emacs can check in your changes for you, given enough time." - ismith <pbaranay>

Is restructing not still advised by the chair of the faculty?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 20:59:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It is.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:02:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But, like, I'm not sure what the point of "the DSL must meet with the
UAP weekly" would be. It's not like I expect it to be that hard to go
meet with Colombo, even as _me_, if I want to. I certainly expect
it's easy for Allan. Adding a rule about regular meetings doesn't do
anything about regular _influence_.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:03:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

At least when bennie was president, he and maggied *did* meet with him
weekly--Colombo was very accomodating/encouraging of that.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:04:33 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "The power of thermodynamics compels you!" - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

I wouldn't focus on the example so much. I am just saying, there
*are* things that could be written into the faculty bylaws, etc. so as
to give the UA actual power. But this conversation is gorram
exhausting.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:05:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Sure. I don't think I see any particular reason why the faculty would
want to do that. (And I don't think that's any easier or harder by
having the chair of the faculty facilitate ua-structure -- again, it's
not like I expect it to be hard for me as an individual to go talk to
him, and the UAP doing so should be easier)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:07:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I am sympathetic to even taking the argument to the extreme that
students should have the ability to vote to fire the DSL or the
Chancellor. But I don't think anything short of that is properly
called governance, and not advocacy.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:08:01 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "Crocodiles live in the /sewers/. Sea monsters live in the Thames." - ariels <pbaranay>

Rebranding is not the same thing as restructuring.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:08:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... sure?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:08:43 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "See what happens when you travel when Mars is in retrograde?" - danjared <pbaranay>

...never mind, I already said I'm done.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:09:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

And similarly, to Tim's original point, absent the ability to tell a
certain hall or dorm that all its members are moving to elsewhere in
the dorm system or getting kicked out of MIT or whatever -- and the
responsibility, since the responsibility lies with Housing -- I don't
think it makes sense for Dormcon to take a governance role.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:11:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

If Housing is sucking at it, the right answer is to _advocate that
Housing suck less at it_, not to assert that the dorms are
responsible for themselves. I can only assume that, if the threat of
the administration shutting down (or equivalent) the fraternity
system weren't present, there'd be no motivation for the IFC to be
anywhere resembling responsible and non-self-serving in its oversight of
fraternities (which it currently is, don't get me wrong).

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:12:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

If you want to advocate that Housing delegate responsibility to the
dorms, and care if the dorms shirk that responsibility, that's one
way that Housing could suck less at it.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:14:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boston University West. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

yeah, i think the ultimate thing is that there's no accountability for
dorm/dorm residents. i think it would optimal for the students to be
the ones doing it, but that's not necessary.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:14:38 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

What's an example of something that dorm residents do that they aren't
held accountable for?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:14:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

mherdeg: stum mentioned "have alcohol during CPW" as an example.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:15:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brighton Avenue/Packard's Corner. <stum>

and the IFC doesn't have direct power to make a group not exist. we
have to work with DSL to have the group's dorm license revoked.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:15:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Copley. The destination of this train is: Boston College. <stum>

haze frosh
alcohol during recruitment periods
risk management during parties.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:16:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Well, and the ASA has to work with SAO to have a group's funding
account revoked. Does DSL not basically take IFC's word for "we have
a good reason to kick this fraternity out"? Do they object, and do
you have to negotiate with them?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:16:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Arlington. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

i'm sorry, i shouldn't discriminate.
s/haze frosh/haze/

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:16:50 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Is the problem that they're not held accountable? Or that whatever
consequences they face are totally weak compared with the consequences
they'd face if they did the same thing but happened to live in
sororities or fraternities?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:16:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Fairbanks Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

uh, there is at least one instance of it being more complicated than
"we'll just take your word for it."

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:16:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boston University West. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

both.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:18:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, since some number of dorm exec committees are recognized by ASA to
some extent, I suspect there's a chance that I should ask you for
something actionable (in another forum, like personals or mail) and
look into it, but we don't actually make dorms sign our usual hazing
form -- on the assumption that Housing has this under control.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:19:42 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Hmm, so to get concrete, suppose for the sake of example that
residents of a third-floor wing of the Burton-Conner dorm are hazing
new occupants. Is there a problem that (1) there's no one to tell, or
(2) anyone you tell won't do anything to punish the residents, or (3)
anyone you tell won't do anything to punish the new occupants, or
something else?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:20:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Oops, I think I mean "protect the new occupants".

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:20:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Park Street. The destination of this train is: Boston College. <stum>

geofft: there's a lot of "we assume someone else has this under
control" at many levels of the institute.,

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:23:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Park Street. Change here for the Red and Orange Lines. Doors will open on both sides. <stum>

some mix of all of the above?
like, housing is not really equipped to deal with this, right? they're
... running the buildings.

Class: geofft Instance: cat-ears
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:23:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

This is actually vaguely uncomfortable to wear for extended periods
of time.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.room
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I think it's a problem that they throw louder parties taht result in
more freshman totally fucking shitfaced, blame it on fraternity parties
that those freshmen must have been at before, and nothing happens to
change their behavior, which pales in comparison to fraternity
punishment. And god, if this happened at a sorority...

Class: geofft Instance: ua.room
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:25:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Oh sorry I i-mixed.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:26:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm. So, as a dorm resident, I never got a "here's the text of the
Massachusetts hazing law" -- I think I only got those from my student
groups. Is that consistent with what other people recall?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:27:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Dorms, IIRC, are not technically the organizations that must follow it?
I think mostly because people didn't anticipate dorms as organizations
but places to live. I hope I'm wrong. 

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:29:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I don't see anything specifically excepting dormitories in
http://web.mit.edu/asa/rules/ma-hazing-law.html

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:29:45 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

(aside from reading newspaper stories) I only ever saw the word
"hazing" at MIT once a year, when the student group group collected
"hazing forms and constitutions" to see which student groups were
still alive.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:32:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

The Massachussets law doesn't seem to say what happens to you if you
don't follow it.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:34:07 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

"Whoever is a principal organizer or participant in the crime of
hazing, as defined herein, shall be punished by a fine of not more
than three thousand dollars or by imprisonment in a house of
correction for not more than one year, or both such fine and
imprisonment."

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:34:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That's for hazing, not for violating MGL 269.19.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq.d
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:36:05 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

It sounds like the Commonwealth Board of Higher Education, whoever
they are, can regulate it, but it's not clear to me what sort of power
they actually have?

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:37:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

stum/lizdenys/mherdeg: I'm curious about mherdeg's question. Have any
of you actually tried to report issues? (It sounds like you're aware
of specific issues?)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:37:50 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Nope, never.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:39:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Because, while I may disagree about your proposals (like that
ua-structure is relevant), if a certain third-floor wing of
Burton-Conner is actually hazing new residents, I certainly agree
that something should be done, and it seems to me there are obvious
methods for me to report that, if I had evidence and not just rumors
and stereotypes.

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:39:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

And I will care more about the proposals if the current reporting path
doesn't work, or doesn't work satisfactorily.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Seriously, the _entire point_ of Gilbert and Sullivan is the words.
If I can't make them out over your vibrato, you're doing something
wrong, go back to being a valkyrie

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:48:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boston University Central. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

there was an incident that was reported to DSL/Housing/ResLife.
nothing really happened (they were on social probation for a term or
something, but they still got to have ABC and DTYD)

Class: geofft Instance: ua.roomq
Time: Tue Nov  1 21:53:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<If I am always on the heights, I wear them out and the best becomes atrocious to me.... (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

i,i http://tech.mit.edu/V126/N17/17clc.html (the Simmons party
incident some of you may remember, where the Cambridge License
Commission did enforcement-type stuff)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:19:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

So, thinking more, I think restricting access from 1am-7am would
reduce the liklihood LaVerdes would be open 24x7, and that would be bad.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:20:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sups and sandwich theorems: the bread and butter of analysis. <ageng>

I dunno, I doubt hobos are a substantial fraction of LaVerde's's
clientele.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:20:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

How is that responsive?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:20:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But how are verdes' employees supposed to get in?
Their own back door?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:21:21 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"They can apply to the ASA for blank cards just like everyone else"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:21:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

Who, the hobos?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:21:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I'll be in my bung. <ageng>

I guess they can apply, sure...

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:21:52 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

ageng: I feel like I'm missing zpehyrs, but maybe your language is just kinda ambiguous?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:25:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

If the only people who'd be around 1am-7am are students and former
students and hobos, locking out just the hobos shouldn't affect the
profitability of keeping LaVerde's open during that time.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:26:25 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Operating a convenience store inside a locked building during weird
hours? Like Macgregor Convenience, is that still a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:28:07 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think that "locking out the hobos" is not the reason that LaVerdes would
probably not want to operate 24x7 if the building were locked.
Issues of employee and delivery access, and also access to the Public,
would come into play.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:28:34 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Who needs the Public? Just use Dropbox.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:28:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(THat's why I did not find your reply to be responsive, but you included
insufficient context so I couldn't quite understand you.)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:29:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

I still don't see what the problem is. Employees can get cards. The
public is irrelevant if the public isn't going to be around at the
time.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:31:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Employees *can* get cards, but will they? Or will Management just decide
it's not worth the hassle for the marginal profitability (if any) that
overnigth service brings, and just say "fuck it."

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:31:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

And even if employees can get cards, delivery agents probably cannot.
Some of those deliveries go through the back door, but some do not.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:32:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Do they have data on what percentage of purchases are made with
TechCash as a function of time of day? (Not that all affiliates use
TechCash, but it might be a vaguely useful thing to look at?)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:32:53 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Deliveries can make a phone call, no?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:34:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Dean Road. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

won't deliveries have to happen even if verde's isn't open?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:34:31 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

See above. The question I am asking is whether we think LaVerdes management
is likly to conclude the inconvenience of being open 24x7 is not worth
the marginal benefit. The impression I have is that right now it's not
clearly profitable, but it has some advantages for food prepration for
the next day and taking deliveries.
Perhaps you guys conclude that this is not likely to push them over the edge.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:35:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think there is a fair bit of flexibility in them, stum. Sometimes shit
gets dumped behind the back door and sometimes stuff gets left in front of
the front door (e.g. over the summer when they are not 24x7). But I think
most just get scheduled later in the day.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:35:49 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I mean, it would be nice to ask them.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:37:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, I feel like this isn't a serious concern -- CAC can go to
Verde's and say "Hey, we're thinking of putting locks on the doors
from 1am to 7am, here's a pile of access cards for anyone who might
need them", and if Verde's says "uhhh", then CAC can either convince
them to stay open and that i'll be fine, or decide that they care
about Verde's.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:38:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Potentially the concern to raise is "Student Center folks would not
like card access if it kills Verde's' overnight hours, so please don't
implement it if you can't convince Verde's to stay open".

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:38:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

The case I'm concerned about about is when CAC fails to convince LaVerdes
and does not abort the project on thoese grounds. Are you saying you
think that unlikely?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:39:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, I have no idea. I feel like that would trigger "students are
(indirectly) unhappy with the locks", but it'd be good to make this
explicit. Thanks for bringing that up.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:40:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

and I'll mention it when we do talk about it. (We didn't today because
we don't have the money for it in the short term)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:40:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Still churning this over in my head. What time does the other retail in the
building open?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:40:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

mherdeg: MacCon itself is not in a locked portion of MacGregor.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:42:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I dunno. I think Dunkin' Donuts and Anna's are both open at earliest
at 7, Lobdell later, and who cares about CopyTech or the Coop.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:42:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(But I'd assume if the answer were "6:30", that the doors would unlock
at 6:30)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:43:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

If they open at X, their employees need to get in well before X.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:43:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, I suspect that if they start selling stuff at 7am, it would be a good
idea for the building to be open at 6am or maybe 6:30am.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 00:58:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also, one would assume that Verde's employees (and deliveries) could
get in through the back door, which doesn't need to change at all, and
on which it'd be rather silly to put a prox card reader.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:01:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Wait, the back door would remain open at night?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:03:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Verde's back door (the one that opens directly into Verde's).

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:03:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:03:59 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think we are referring -- yeah. WHich has a doorbell.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:04:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

The publicly-accessible back door that opens into the lobby would just
be locked, period, and you use one of the front doors.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:04:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I assume locked would be only during the hours that the front doors
require a card, and also that it can be opened from inside?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:04:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:04:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(That's where I ~always come in with my bike)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:04:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Well, yes to the former, I can't see how the safety folks would be
okay with no for the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:05:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Between 1 and 7 AM?"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:05:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"Yes"

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:06:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Anyway, I think the specific proposal is to put proxcards only on two
doors, I don't remember if it's the two front W20-1 doors or one W20-1
and one W20-2 one, and have all the other doors to the building just
be locked during those hours.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:06:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Who... is going to do the locking?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:07:04 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Presuambly they will auto-lock.
IMO not covering the south doors and the north ATM door  would be Dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:07:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

err, I meant "the two south door sets."

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:07:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

jhawk: If they're going to put in the hardware to auto-lock the doors,
why wouldn't they also put a prox reader in?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:07:59 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Quentin, I have no special knowledge.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:07:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I predict that the employee whose responsibility it is to do the
locking and unlocking will forget.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:08:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

SUrely it will autolock like bldg 66, etc.?

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:08:15 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(Probably only one or two doors, but of course the one you try to use)

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:08:59 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Incidenly, Quentin, since bikes are banned in the building, how you
always come in with them doesn't seem too relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:10:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I have no special knowledge either, but
> Who... is going to do the locking?
The person who kicks out any homeless people who got in before 1 AM.
> why wouldn't they also put a prox reader in?
Because those things are expensive.

Class: geofft Instance: cacab
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:11:04 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

That seems implausible, Geoffrey. Homeless people will surely be kicked
out by the CPs, because no one else wants to do that. and the CPs,
I am sure, will not take on the responsibility of locking any doors.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Nov  2 01:12:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Did you just end your sentence with an exclamation point and a tilde?
Are you Asian enough to be allowed to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: signs-you-may-be-wasting-time-on-the-internet-partial-list
Time: Wed Nov  2 07:11:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

You've reached the following Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffyverse_role-playing_games

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Nov  2 09:47:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg/707px-Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg.png

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Nov  2 09:52:33 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I think we need Geofft's Hierarchy of SIPB Discussions.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  2 15:07:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Ignoring life, try again later

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 15:18:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Would you like more zoobars? I can give you more zoobars."
"That's okay, I can give myself more zoobars"

Class: geofft Instance: facmtgs
Time: Wed Nov  2 15:36:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 15:53:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Cookies are fantastic. I think I'll go clear my cookies now."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 17:08:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"So... [6.858] is basically teaching people how to hack NeoPets?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 17:10:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Wait, one of my coworkers did that and got kicked off.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 19:20:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Piper did that[*] all the time BITD, I think.

[*] Well, social engineering. Not technical hacking.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 19:21:07 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: We are the computer scientists who say VI!  - pbaranay <wings>

Yeah, that was fun ^_^

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.oh.q
Time: Wed Nov  2 19:21:15 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: When the current frosh are seniors, the incoming frosh can be younger than Pokemon. - haiiro <wings>

I mean, uh, I am terribly sorry for my misdeeds

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Nov  3 00:33:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I can never tell how Google decides whether Epiphany is secretly a
mobile device. It seems to decide that about half the time.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Nov  3 00:43:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Probably it has a somewhat funny user agent? I remember there being
something about YouTube doing HTML video stuff based on UA (they
wanted to take it into account in sending markup or something) which
broke Epiphany. I think the conclusion on the WebKit bug was
basically "We don't really have anything better than UA sniffing at
the HTTP level, and you're really a niche browser. Just spoof someone
else."

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Nov  3 11:05:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Save as...
Rave as...

Class: geofft Instance: planga
Time: Thu Nov  3 11:23:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hey zephyr, if your student group got e-mails from Planga, could you send
me the To addresses (and dates) on those e-mails?

Class: geofft Instance: planga
Time: Thu Nov  3 11:41:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(thanks, folks in personals, but still curious to see more)
Also, I don't have any frosh on my class, do I?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov  3 11:47:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I weigh as much as two of my apartmentmates combined.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov  3 11:47:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(we determined this yesterday while trying to see if the fourth could
take us all flying)

Class: geofft Instance: planga
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:31:31 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

10/29/11 - asymptones-officers@mit.edu, apo-exec@mit.edu
09/11/11 - same
09/01/11 - apo-exec only

Class: geofft Instance: planga
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:31:39 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Er, whoops, personals-mix, whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:46:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Wait, is the current MIT chapter of Sigma Nu actually the Epsilon
Theta chapter? I... guess that makes sense, that the greek letters to
refer to chapters refer to schools and aren't UUIDs of chapter
incarnation.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:46:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(I'm trying to figure out why the second Google result for 'epsilon
theta' is sigmanu.mit.edu)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:48:11 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Part of the deal when ET split off from SN was that there would never
be another ET chapter of SN at MIT, I thought---and then Sigma Nu
realized it didn't have to keep this deal.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:48:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, they are still the Epsilon Theta chapter. I think there might
be something about them not being able to call themselves "Epsilon
Theta" without a "chapter of Sigma Nu" or something like that, but I
never paid a whole lot of attention to the details of this stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:52:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Actually it looks like they might not be able to use that phrase
publicly even. I dunno. I suspect we don't care enough to get upset
at them if they are in fact doing something they aren't supposed to.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 12:58:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Well, they call themselves "MIT chapter of Sigma Nu" on their website.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 13:00:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

It used to say "Epsilon Theta Chapter of Sigma Nu", so maybe Google
has some memory. It looks like it's still on a couple pages, so it
could also be that. I imagine they changed it for some reason
relating to the agreement.

http://sigmanu.mit.edu/brothers.php
http://sigmanu.mit.edu/chapterHistory.php

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Thu Nov  3 13:02:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

At least, I'm pretty sure it used to say that in my memory, but
archive.org is not agreeing with me. *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:51:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I wonder how hard it would be to expand my "I should run a mail server
for myself" plot to "I should run a mail server for my friends"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:52:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I'd run a mail server with yoU!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:52:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

"We could call it tyger!"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:52:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

(not really)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:53:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Getting tyger to be my MX instead of scripts would probably be a
reasonable short-term plan

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:53:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(for forwarding to MIT)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 15:53:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

Yeah, like I said, I'd run one with you, but tyger isn't scalable or
really a good long term solution.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:46:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

To: GSC President Alex Evans <gsc-president@mit.edu>, Victor Wang
<vvv@mit.edu>, Russell Andrew Jensen <russjen@mit.edu>,
    "asa-treasurer@mit.edu" <asa-treasurer@mit.edu>, Geoffrey G Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
Cc: asa-president <asa-president@exchange.mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:46:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I really don't understand Exchange

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:47:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Grand 1/4 Thru & Spread <kchen>

Maybe whatever hack got done to rewrite @exchange.mit.edu to @mit.edu
only processes To: lines.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

huh.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:50:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Wait, legacy.exchange.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:50:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Ah So <kchen>

What about it?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:55:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/rjbarbal/EC/ec-statement-1

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:57:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

"We did X.  We can't tell you why.  And we can't tell you why we
can't tell you why.  And we can't tell you anything surrounding the
reasons we can't tell you why.  Sorry."

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:58:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I wonder if SIPB is statistically more prone to these sorts of
"what"s than other groups.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 16:59:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

I can't even parse the last two paragraphs.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:00:24 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

I think SIPB is somewhat more prone. I think MIT of that
mid-to-late-90s era was significantly more prone.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:01:34 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Oh man that is so mean.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:02:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

I actually don't recall what election that was about

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:02:30 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

All private meeting minutes of every organization should automatically
become public 20 years later, so people who are really bored and
really curious can laugh at them.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:02:42 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

[The MIT Academic Council actually does this]

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:02:55 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

I think private minutes should randomly become public
sooner than that.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:03:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

I've also now been part of a completely positive process
(minister selection) for which keeping the minutes
permantantly private is (I think) justified.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:03:34 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

In our case primarily to protect the details f the
candidates we considered and did not select.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:03:43 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

I totally want to know who was going to be the Pope!!

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:04:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

But do you need to know who was *not* going to be Pope?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:05:00 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

"Tell us more about how the individuals in your current
congregation reacted when you came out as gay? How did you
deal with the most negative reactions? How about the
support you received or didn't receive from denominational
leadership?"

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:05:51 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

But anyway, by the time I was in a leadership role at SIPB,
it seemed like most of the political bullshit had died
down, to be replaced by metabullshit about trying to avoid
political bullshit that wasn't actually happening. As a
now-outsider, the meta-bullshit seems to have chilled.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:10:09 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Wait but then also
http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/rjbarbal/EC/ec-statement-2
and
http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/admin/minutes/HISTORY/1994_minutes/sipbec.94.02.08
?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:14:44 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I was around for that particular situation; it was a case of multiple
failures in a closed-room process.

Class: geofft Instance: mq.d
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:15:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yes, legacy. You can proceed to sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:21:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hey guys I got approved for a credit card

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:21:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I feel like a real person!

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:22:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Quick, work on Scripts to feel like a student again!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.fixed-length-strings
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:28:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, I didn't realize we recognized a Student Organiz.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.fixed-length-strings
Time: Thu Nov  3 17:30:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Students Organiz!

Class: geofft Instance: pyinotify
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:05:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Whoa, when did python -m pyinotify grow colors

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:17:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Did I miss the existence of a streaming API?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:35:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So is it just me, or does it cost less to rent a U-Haul for a day than
a ZipCar for a day?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:35:56 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

The MIT rate from Budget is also not bad, for superior
maneuverability.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:36:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<“That’s the problem with cooking shows in the Latter Days of the Law,” says Kwan-Yin, magnificent in sorrow. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

Yeah, generally.  Depends how much you drive the U-Haul.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:36:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<Never say that it is a pleasure to live oneself. (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

(I guess you probably won't realistically use enough gas to equalize
the costs.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:36:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

If using a Zipcar saves you 45 minutes of dropoff and pickup time, and
you value your time at $x/hr..

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:37:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I mean, the reason I'd use a ZipCar for a day is "I need to drive to
this place and stay there for a day", not "I need to be driving
around for a day"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:37:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So... next time I should just get a U-Haul. Okay.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:38:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Square Chain The Top <kchen>

The u-haul price probably doesn't include liability insurance.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:38:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<The prompter flashes: COMMERCIAL and the world fades to dark. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

I'm skeptical that that's actually what you want to do, but feel free.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:38:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

You have to be careful about which credit card you use, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:39:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, I will kind of look like a dork climbing out of a U-Haul, but.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:39:52 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Jeez, the Budget rate is up to $37/day plus some taxes and fees.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:40:53 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Compare with a U-Haul pickup truck for $20/day & 59 cents per miel.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:44:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

The U-Haul charges per-mile.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:44:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

It's ~59 cents per mile, minimum.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:45:07 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

But if your destination is fewer than 14 miles away, and you're
insured, you're golden vs. Budget.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:45:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Sure, but on the "I'm driving somewhere and being there for a day"
model, then ==mherdeg.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 18:45:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(I'm specifically thinking about the "I have an interview somewhere
that public transit doesn't reach" problem)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:06:10 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Kiraboshi! <paigep>

And the company isn't providing transportation? Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:07:19 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Kiraboshi! <paigep>

Everywhere I went either provided a car service or paid for taxis

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:08:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Don't forget that U-Haul is infamous for problems like not actually
giving you a vehicle on the day you reserved one.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:08:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Or making you stand around waiting for long periods of time.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:09:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Oh, yeah, and if the use case is an interview the company should be
covering whatever you need.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:38:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

D'you want a mail server? I think I'm willing to let you use mine...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:38:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I thought I heard strange things about yours.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.fixed-length-strings
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:42:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Nov  3 19:43:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, what's wrong with mine? I think it totally works.

Class: geofft Instance: presented-without-comment
Time: Thu Nov  3 20:22:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Occupy_Wall_Street

Class: geofft Instance: lisa
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:05:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Anyone want to submit a poster about Debathena or scripts or
something? (LISA is in Boston the first week of December, so modulo
registration fee, it's stupidly convenient to go)

Class: geofft Instance: lisa
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:05:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa11/
http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa11/activities.html#poster

Class: geofft Instance: lisa
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:06:30 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Does... Scripts count as a large installation?

Class: geofft Instance: lisa
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:07:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

We definitely have interesting scale problems, even if it's not "we
have too many computers"

Class: geofft Instance: usenix
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:07:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh look, the USENIX '12 CFP is out. USENIX is in Boston in the middle
of June.

http://www.usenix.org/events/atc12/cfp/

Class: geofft Instance: usenix
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:14:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(Also LEET '12's, but I'm not sure I'm already doing anything that
could be turned into a LEET paper. LISA and USENIX, sure.

There's also a WebApps conference colocated with USENIX)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:23:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, this "please comment your code" commit is awesome.

https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=0119fee449f501d55924914a90f152540dd4ef9a

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:33:34 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

My favorite:
"""
/*
 * Yay, we acquired ownership of this lock we didn't try to
 * acquire, how the heck did that happen?
 */
"""

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:34:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

+       /*
+        * I took it apart and put it back together again, except now I have
+        * these 'spare' parts.. where shall I put them.
+        */

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:36:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I do think I noticed this summer while source-diving Linux that it
wasn't very commented.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Nov  3 22:36:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Comments are always wrong, just like using a kernel debugger is a
crutch.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Nov  3 23:25:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Alternative Class Council"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Nov  3 23:36:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

'The song is a dramatic ballad, with the singer describing what will
happen between herself and a lover "tonight". The exact details are
left unsaid, but she sings, for example, that "We'll say things that
we've never said before/Tonight, tonight, it will be the night",
implying a level of intimacy which the couple had not previously
achieved.'

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Nov  3 23:40:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<It is the equinox: the moment when the spring and the summer give way to winter and the fall. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

[stark] I stil want an Alternative Alumni Association.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Nov  3 23:40:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That was the inspiration.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Nov  3 23:40:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I guess where I am in life, I should care more about the latter

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov  4 01:15:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Zephyr: providing instant answers to your useless questions."

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/090606.html

Class: geofft Instance: roles
Time: Fri Nov  4 01:52:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, Kerri revoked her own student group SAP bits a few weeks ago.

Class: geofft Instance: roles
Time: Fri Nov  4 01:59:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... Israel Ruiz doesn't have "CAN USE SAP"?

Class: geofft Instance: roles
Time: Fri Nov  4 02:32:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Nobody needs it.

Class: geofft Instance: roles
Time: Fri Nov  4 02:32:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

CAN USE SAP was deprecated a while ago. Possibly before he showed up.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov  4 13:55:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

awake, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: in-defense-of-mokafives-business-model
Time: Fri Nov  4 14:21:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://www.businessinsider.com/mac-users-are-more-productive-2011-10

Class: geofft Instance: in-defense-of-mokafives-business-model
Time: Fri Nov  4 14:22:58 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

Ah, statistics.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Nov  4 14:42:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

This topic _might_ be a geofft summon. -> doing productive things

Class: geofft Instance: fbsdq
Time: Fri Nov  4 16:41:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

You can get a good generic server install by using the
instant-server port/package.  If you have ports installed, you can
install it by doing

        # cd /usr/ports/misc/instant-server
        # make install && make clean

as root.  This will install a collection of packages that is appropriate for
running a "generic" server.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Fri Nov  4 16:43:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

This is a very nyan-colored Pop Tart.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:38:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

W20-4 confuses me. Who decided that these walls and doors were a good idea?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:39:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:40:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

You can walk from 445 through 445A, 447, 450, 449, and 451 to 451A
via inner doors without going into the hallway

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:40:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(SEDS to Technique via the PIFCO)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:45:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Maybe we can find an old floorplan somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Nov  4 23:47:04 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "NERD."  "SAYS THE SIPB MEMBER ON ZEPHYR." "SHUSH YOU." - lexrj, ismith <wings>

What's weird to me is the passageway from 3-108 to 10-100....

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Nov  5 00:31:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> home hopefully

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Nov  5 00:32:50 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I must not be a real programmer, because I'm commenting the code. - zhangc <wings>

... hopefully?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Nov  5 02:23:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

requiem aeternam dona eis, domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Nov  5 23:07:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Sun Nov  6 13:38:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Verdi's Requiem
LaVerde's Requiem

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Sun Nov  6 13:38:43 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

Requiem for LaVerde's

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:22:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oooh, a run-pre matching failure!

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:24:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3d4ed85 [PATCH] restore CHECK_EMERGENCY_SYNC.  Again. <nelhage>

hm?

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:24:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

tyger told me to rmmod sunrpc and try again.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:25:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 67a3f6d [MIPS] Fix tx49_blast_icache32_page_indexed. <nelhage>

"I guess I can just look it up"

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:26:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(this is with an uptrack update to squeeze) I bet I had used NFS
after the first time I took a kernel update, so my sunrpc module was
newer than my uname

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:26:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 41d0ff2 o wanrouter: kill netdevice_t, do as all the rest of the tree, use struct net_device <nelhage>

Oh, you're running Debian. Yeah. Fuck those guys.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:26:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It works after I unmounted the Isilon and rmmodded everything using
sunrpc

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:27:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I would ask "you have a better suggestion?", but I'm afraid the answer is
"yes, Oracle Unbreakable Linux"

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:28:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: babdb78 [SCSI] cnic, bnx2i: Fix build failure when CONFIG_PCI is not set. <nelhage>

Flame debian-devel until they bump their ABI version every release.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:30:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...every release? Ubuntu doesn't even do that

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:30:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Wait, but then what happens? I'm unable to use NFS until I reboot?

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:30:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 04fa6b4 ALSA CVS update - Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> Digigram VX core Alain Cretet <cretet@digigram.com>: - fixed the 24bit mono recording. <nelhage>

Ubuntu basically does, these days.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:31:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 080dfbe Minor bug fixes to i2c-pasemi <nelhage>

I guess not quite, but whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:31:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also, Evan, speaking of Ksplice I have the perfect solution to
Debathena's texlive issues: frankenpackage.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:31:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3cd7098 HID: Use menuconfig objects <nelhage>

No, you just continue using the old NFS module until you reboot.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:31:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But I didn't have it loaded, presumably...

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:31:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, the right answer is to use triggers. Canonical paid to get them for
a reason

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:32:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8df09ea [SOCK] Avoid integer divides where not necessary in include/net/sock.h <nelhage>

If you don't have it loaded, then when you load it, you get the
version that goes with your kernel, instead of the version that goes
with the new kernel.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:32:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I guess I could fail to uninstall the old kernel modules like rpmland

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:32:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c6d738b [PATCH] make MO drive work with ide-floppy/ide-cd <nelhage>

Debian already does that...

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Sun Nov  6 18:32:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(hn, debland does that too)

Class: geofft Instance: radio.q
Time: Sun Nov  6 22:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Obama's stormtroopers are the occupy movement"

Class: geofft Instance: radio.q
Time: Sun Nov  6 22:16:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

i,i Krugman's Army

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:16:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Lolllllllllll! Fuuuuuuuuuuu!"

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:16:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That... does not sound good.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:18:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Our automated proof tool is doing really good at the automated and
not so much at the proof.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:18:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So.... it's like a Microsoft product?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:18:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Taking clock cycles, but not really accomplishing anything?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:19:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Basically, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:22:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's it doing? Telling you "could not prove anything" or something?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:22:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It's spinning on failing to prove the same thing over and over.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:23:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I think Edward's reduced this to the minimal test case, ∃ a b c, a =
b ∧ b = c ∧ c = 2.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892.prnf
Time: Mon Nov  7 00:51:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

proofspin (like leekspin)

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 01:17:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Why do I want a hostile universe with demons?"
"It means you can reason about threads modularly."

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 01:28:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"But, but, but, Goldbach conjecture!"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov  7 02:30:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov  7 11:47:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

wait what where am I what time is it

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:21:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Android Android Android geez do you kids want to do anything other
than Android security

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:23:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

A badger badger?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:33:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

We might be getting libexec!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:33:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...what?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:34:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:34:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/166431

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:35:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I don't understand how libexec solves the nmh problem

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:36:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:36:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But, like, read rleigh's e-mail in that thread

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:36:32 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft: are you excited or disgusted?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:36:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not sure I understand the point Roger is making

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:37:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or how that leads to libexec

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:37:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

achernya: Not sure, but less gratuitous differences from the rest of
the world seem good

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:38:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Who else has libexec besides Fedora et al, in Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:39:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"GNU"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:39:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also, "Fedora et al" is "everyone else"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:39:58 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I /usr/libexec/kdc

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Are there actually distros that don't derive from RH or Debian that
count? I can think of Gentoo and Slackware

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

SLES/SuSE?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Until I got to MIT, I've only ever used RedHat and Solaris stuff. I've
~generally avoided all else. So just making sure.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

SuSE is a slackware derivative that uses RPM packaging, I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That's RH-derived, right?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(That is to say, I have libexec on freebsd)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:40:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think people tend to count them, but I don't think I've ever seen
them used, so I don't know *why* people count them :)

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:47:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I wish sh -x skipped echo.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:47:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Or actually skipped a fair amount of stuff. 'Cause

+ echo "Press any key to continue..."
Press any key to continue...
+ read

is dumb

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:48:27 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But then your debugging tool is too smart.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Mon Nov  7 13:49:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I guess I want -x as a UI tool separate from -x as a debugging tool

Class: geofft Instance: out-of-it
Time: Mon Nov  7 14:37:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... why is there vaguely dramatic music playing?
... oh I have headphones on and ran Pandora and it's playing @i(The Planets)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov  7 14:40:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"EC should not be allowed to have mailing lists", exhibit n

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov  7 14:41:08 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Like it would've been any better if it had gone to the Lincoln Lab.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Mon Nov  7 15:59:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Committee on Discipline
Call of Duty

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Nov  7 16:15:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Aw, suckless-tools is orphaned? I wish I had time to care

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov  7 16:26:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Due to our strong personal convictions, we wish to stress that this
comic in no way endorses a belief in Michael Jackson."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Nov  7 16:44:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm I wanted lunch didn't I.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov  7 16:57:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... What's the difference between helpdesk-all and servicedesk-all?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov  7 17:20:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Ooh, is that a lab 6?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov  7 17:21:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> W20

Class: geofft Instance: zedshaw.q
Time: Mon Nov  7 18:10:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Lamson is designed to work like modern web application frameworks
like Django, TurboGears, ASP.NET, Ruby on Rails, and whatever PHP is
using these days."

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:28:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

sipb-iap-sed-and-awk

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:28:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

that is the best-idea-ever.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:29:06 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

i,i http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Mastering-Cat/

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:29:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Which is a sub-idea of "pick a random book from the SIPB library and
teach it as an IAP class". I landed on @i(sed & awk) after @i(Java in
a Nutshell), which is reasonable but boring.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:30:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

sed and awk are super duper useful.

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Mon Nov  7 19:32:18 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Indeed.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Nov  7 21:33:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov  7 22:11:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

You know what? -> -> home.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:02:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

What is this "lab notebook" you speak of

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:04:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(Seriously, I feel like I ought to lab-notebook coding, but it's easier
not to)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:08:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, EZRide's morning schedule is a little dumb for me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:09:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(as in I would have been on campus now had I walked)

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:11:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I think your code counts as your lab notebook, if you're doing course
6 stuff :)

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:17:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<It is bitter for the most masculine man to accept his femininity... (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

Keeping a lab notebook for debugging seems like it could be useful.
"But I'm lazy."

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:17:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

No, no it doesn't. YOur code is your experiment, and it keeps changing

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 09:28:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I definitely keep lab notebooks.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 10:02:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Your VCS, *maybe*, if you are very strict about it and have good commit
messages.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 10:02:47 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But I have a separate notes file as well.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 10:03:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6887d83 sh: Wire up new syscalls. <nelhage>

Yeah, your code is not your lab notebook.

Class: geofft Instance: dvp
Time: Tue Nov  8 10:03:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 6761c4a [PATCH] powerpc: remove initrd debug printk <nelhage>

http://blog.nelhage.com/2010/05/software-and-lab-notebooks/
http://blog.nelhage.com/2010/06/lab-notebooking-for-the-software-engineer/

Class: geofft Instance: dvp.d
Time: Tue Nov  8 10:04:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 4f517bc Make the permission operation in xfs conditional on ACLs being compiled in <nelhage>

Hm, I think I've gotten much worse at this since I wrote those posts.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov  8 11:09:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh right, do I know any grad students subletting their room over IAP?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov  8 11:09:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(or other places I could live?)
I guess I could just not stick around for IAP, but where's the fun in that.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Tue Nov  8 11:12:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Why is there a bunch of searching for Craigslist casual encounters in
this computer's URL history?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:16:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  capplets-data{u} deskbar-applet{u} gconf-editor{u} gnome-about{u} gnome-desktop-data{u} gnome-media-common{u} gnome-netstatus-applet{u} 
  gnome-office{u} libbrasero-media0{u} libcamel1.2-19{u} libchamplain-0.8-1{u} libchamplain-gtk-0.8-1{u} libclutter-gtk-0.10-0{u} 
  libedataserverui1.2-11{u} libevince3{u} libgnome-bluetooth7{u} libgnome-desktop-2-17{u} libgnome-media0{u} libgnome-window-settings1{u} 
  libgnome2-canvas-perl{u} libgnome2-perl{u} libgnome2-vfs-perl{u} libgnomekbd4{u} libgucharmap7{u} libgweather1{u} libmetacity-private0{u} 
  libnautilus-extension1{u} liboobs-1-4{u} libpolkit-gtk-1-0{u} libslab0a{u} libtracker-client-0.10-0{u} python-gdata{u} python-gdbm{u} 
  python-gnomeapplet{u} python-gnomedesktop{u} python-rdflib{u} python-webkit{u} software-center{u} totem-coherence{a} 

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:17:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: CHICAGO (n.) The foul-smelling wind which precedes an underground railway train. <ahailes>

those look important...

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:18:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I _think_ they're all gone in GNOME 3.

I hope.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:18:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, software-center, really?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:18:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm skeptical that you don't need python-gdata

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:19:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And I'm skeptical that you don't still *want* gconf-editor

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yeah, that worried me

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:19:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Everything else seems fine

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:19:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/6.892/repo/src$ aptitude why python-gdata
i   totem-plugins Depends python-gdata

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:20:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I guess e-d-s is probably just using the C library

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:21:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, do the Debathena things that use gconftool-2 break now?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:21:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

More to the point, does Debathena secretly depend on GNOME 2?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:21:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes. Because you haven't dealt with gsettings

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:24:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

In what way do we need to deal with gsettings?  Do you want to port
the distro-segregated gconf kludge to gsettings?  Because I really
just want to let that die.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 15:24:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, I was thinking more of gconf keys we feed in through dh_gconf

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Nov  8 17:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

For some reason randomly running into clergy is more confusing than
randomly running into just about anyone else

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue Nov  8 17:49:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Back when I lived into Bexley I was constantly bumping into Bob
Randolph on the way home.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov  8 17:55:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, I totally forgot Tosci's existed

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Nov  8 18:11:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Can I get a git pull --rebase\ -i?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Nov  8 18:12:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

git fetch && git rebase -i @@{u}

Class: geofft Instance: duckduckgo
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:16:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Dude. Part of their code is open source and they'll take your commits
  https://github.com/duckduckgo/duckduckgo/wiki
Why would I ever use Google again?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:27:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It would be nice if my laptop stopped clipping...

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:41:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay doing that upgrade while I was using the computer was no fun.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:42:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

andersk: There are plenty of places we set things via gconftool-2

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:46:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay throwing twm at the problem made it better.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:48:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Although, huh, I think I actually plain ran out of memory.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:48:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

'cause it hadn't updated any files yet.

Class: geofft Instance: accomplishments-today
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:52:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I used my very first credit card for the very first time!
I got denied for my very second credit card!

Class: geofft Instance: accomplishments-today
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:52:51 2011 Host: ASSASSIN.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate the world a little less now because it contains yogurt." - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

...congratulations?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:55:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay what the _what_. I have a gconftool-2 that's using more RAM than
my 6.858 kvm process

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

18904 root      20   0  293m 252m 2336 D   26 13.5   0:04.22 gconftool-2

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 19:59:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh hey, Epiphany is a GNOME program, is it not? I guess I'm not
browsing the web for a little bit.

Class: geofft Instance: accomplishments-today
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:00:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

What was the reason for denial?

Class: geofft Instance: accomplishments-today
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:05:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I dunno. They said I should give them a call

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:20:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

dpkg, I am not impressed.

Preparing to replace gnome-settings-daemon 2.30.2-4 (using .../gnome-settings-daemon_3.0.3-3_amd64.deb) ...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/Editres.ad out of the way...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/Tk.ad out of the way...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/Emacs.ad out of the way...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/Motif.ad out of the way...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/General.ad out of the way...
Moving obsolete conffile /etc/gnome/config/Xaw.ad out of the way...
Unpacking replacement gnome-settings-daemon ...
dpkg: warning: unable to delete old directory '/etc/gnome/config': Directory not empty

geofft@leveret:~/6.858$ ls /etc/gnome/config/
Editres.ad.dpkg-remove  General.ad.dpkg-remove  Tk.ad.dpkg-remove
Emacs.ad.dpkg-remove    Motif.ad.dpkg-remove    Xaw.ad.dpkg-remove

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:21:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That behavior seems entirely correct to me

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:21:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Actually, I'm curious what "Moving obsolete conffile" is about

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:22:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

man dpkg-maintscript-helper

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:22:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But is the argument that g-s-d 3 should have removed this in its
postinst, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:22:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh huh

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:22:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, g-s-d did everything correctly there. Namely, it didn't outright
delete the obsoleted conffiles in case you had to extract anything
useful from them

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:23:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm. Apparently dpkg-maintscript-helper will go and delete those in
the postinst (because they're unmodified, and therefore .dpkg-remove
and not .dpkg-backup). I bet it won't be clever enough to delete
/etc/gnome/config itself, though

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:23:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Probably true

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3.d
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:23:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also at some point I need some chroots or containers for other OSes.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Tue Nov  8 20:24:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, "dpkg-maintscript-helper, I am not impressed"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Nov  9 00:18:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Is it just me, or are those startups on jobslist, and weren't we
supposed to not have those on jobslist and instead get them through
Startlabs?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Nov  9 00:18:35 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

hmmm?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Nov  9 00:19:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I thought anneh said "I'm not sending any more startups to jobslist,
go check Startlabs now"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Wed Nov  9 00:19:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Did we decide that Startlabs was dumb, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 00:36:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Downsides of waking up before 8: you get sleepy before 1

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:15:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

owww reading students' non-idiomatic Python is a pain

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Does it look like C?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:19 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From:  <pquimby>

Did they decide to use semicolons?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

No, it looks like nobody told them about half the operators

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which half?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I did get one person who stuck semicolons on everything. The current
"owww" is someone who was never told about +=

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:17:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

course 6 needs more "read this other person's code"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:17:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So we did that in lab 4...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:17:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No.
Course 6 needs a competant 6.005

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:17:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

scratch that, it has that already.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:16:32 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

I use semicolons!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:18:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hi.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:18:48 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From:  <pquimby>

What if there was a class that was "read other people's code" and
didn't actually involve writing it...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:19:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(You also reindent your files, which makes my diff sad.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:19:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

! reindent python? What?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:19:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, I'm awfully tempted to do something like
sipb-iap-real-world-software-engineering-but-when-we-say-real-world-we're-serious

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:20:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Specifically, "hack on an open source project", because that does
involve a lot of code reading

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:20:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Join Ubuntu! Become a MOTU! Fix our bugs!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:20:44 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The problem with that: most code is still shitty.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:21:31 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

SOFT TABS ARE THE ONLY TABS

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:24:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, so, the correct answer is always to adapt to the style of the
surrounding code, no matter how horrendous the style. If it's "braces
on their own space-indented line, everything else uses hard tabs", do
that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:24:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

re: 01:19, that would be excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:24:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Whitespace?  What whitespace?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:25:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

what if its "braces placed mostly randomly"?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:23:36 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

(It's especially frustrating because I use tabs of size 4, not 8).

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:25:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So set your editor's settings differently when working on someone
else's code. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:48:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Did you just use the word "automatic" to describe "on the stack like
usual" (about a variable)? How quaint.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:48:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

But it's the "auto" keyword!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:48:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Right.... so glad C++0x found a good use for it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:54:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That's what she saidOKAY I AM GOING TO SLEEP RIGHT NOW I CLEARLY SHOULD NOT BE AWAKE

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 01:57:26 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Why *am* I still awake?

Class: geofft Instance: ist.mq.actual-attachment-filename
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:44:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"rage_face_fuck_that_RE_Sharenator_V2_Information-s152x171-184191.png"

Class: geofft Instance: ist.mq.actual-attachment-filename
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:44:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: ist.mq.actual-attachment-filename
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:42:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O?

Class: geofft Instance: ist.mq.actual-attachment-filename
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:45:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

jdreed: Go look at the mail with subject line "Who down with ODBC?
Yeah you know me...".

Class: geofft Instance: ist.mq.actual-attachment-filename
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:43:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Ah, the advantages of a graphical mail client.  That's... awesome

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:46:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I should really log out and log back in, twm is annoying

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:47:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

But I'm in the middle of running the grading script so I can't until
grades are done. "Motivation."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:47:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> campus

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 10:49:19 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

reptyr into screen and log out?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:00:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Can I hold office hours outside today?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:02:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That sounds dangerous.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3.d
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:03:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Really, I want a shell that allocates a pty for itself and supports a
"screenify yourself" command"

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:07:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

MIT needs more outdoors spaces with power outlets

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:07:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brookline Hills. <stum>

"or wireless power"

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:06:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't this what the Stata amphitheater is for, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:21:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, network-manager got sad too

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:21:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Really should reboot...

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:23:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think it would be more productive for you to go flame debian-devel
for upgrading your system in a way that required a reboot in the first
place :-P

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:23:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm not sure it _required_ one

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:23:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"Help me, Matthew Garrett! You're my only hope"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:27:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So lots of students seem to want to explicitly stick canaries in certain
places on the stack. I wonder if there's an __attribute__((canary)) that
would let them do that (and cause references to that variable to be
canary-checked)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:30:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That sounds a lot like what -DFORTIFY_SOURCE is intended to do

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 11:35:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1e01cb0 ftrace: only trace preempt off with preempt tracer <nelhage>

gcc will reorder variables so that the stack canary will protect as
much as possible...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 12:08:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Ooh cool, are we actually going to cover block cipher modes of operation
in like 5 minutes?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 12:09:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: a463147 [PATCH] libata: convert assert(X)'s in libata core layer to WARN_ON(!X)'s <nelhage>

ECB is bad, mmkay? CBC is pretty cool, and you probably CTR if you
need random access, but don't forgot to actually increment the
counter. Also, you probably want a HMAC.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 12:09:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

i,i "just show them the ECB Tux"
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cipher_modes_of_operation#Electronic_codebook_.28ECB.29 )

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:04:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It does annoy me that one disadvantage of building packages cleanly
in chroots is that you don't get incremental make. I wonder if
there's a good solution

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:05:07 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

For automated builds, you mostly don't care.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:05:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It takes too long.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:05:36 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

But even, say, buildbot will let you keep your buildtree
around.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:05:53 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

faster computers are cheap.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:05:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"but I don't use buildbot, I use sbuild"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:06:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'd argue you shouldn't be test building in sbuild

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:06:18 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

yeah, basically

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:06:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

kcr: Computers fast enough to build, like, kvm or systemd or
something of that size in half a second are cheap?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:07:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

What's your goal here? If you're trying to run tests repeatedly,
having buildbot or so do incremental builds is probably the way to
go. If you want to make packages that someone's actually going to
use, you probably don't want an incremental build in the first place.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:07:19 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

no, but it does seem that you're doing it wrong.
(is systemd that big?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:07:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

We're probably doing it wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:07:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

We use our package build system to do dev work too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:08:14 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

You could presumably tweak the package build system for
incremental builds as well.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:08:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

davidben: The generalized goal is, I already have something that's
packaged in an RPM or a .deb or something, I'd like to patch it and
make sure the patch applies

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:08:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm of course fine with doing a single prebuild, but "aww, that patch
didn't apply" or "okay, that compiles but it doesn't work, let's try
something else" repeatedly shouldn't be slow.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:09:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

So use debuild -b for your test builds and sbuild when you're confident
that the non-chrooted build works

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:09:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

That's still slow, it kills the build tree, reruns configure, etc....

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:10:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

debuild -b -nc

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:10:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And fix your build system so that works

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:13:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, when I'm patching someone else's package, "fix your build system"
is generally to be avoided

Class: geofft Instance: g9
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:17:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

puppy!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:19:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

Maybe there's an equivalent argument for mock?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:33:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, we have hugepages... can you have tinypages? 4- or 8-byte regions
of memory that have their own PTEs? (this way you can do things like
put each stack variable in tinypages and stick an unmapped tinypage
in between each variable) Exactly how much does performance suck,
assuming you implemented this in hardware?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:33:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> exactly how much does performance suck
A lot. TLB space is expensive

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:33:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, the TLB is supposed to be fully-associative or something.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:34:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That also costs a lot of RAM... I think a factor of... three or so...
is going to make people sad even today.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:34:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

1 word data, 1 word PTE, 1 word buffer.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:35:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

We dealt with a factor of two when moving from x86 to x86_64, it was
okay.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:35:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I disagree. There's a reason that people are developing x32

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:36:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

There's always a performance hit to crazy security ideas. The point
is that the performance hit is not totally unacceptable

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:36:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You're talking about blowing up the page table size by easily an order
of magnitude:

ebroder@warwick:~$ grep PageTables /proc/meminfo 
PageTables:        46376 kB

Losing 400M of my RAM is a lot

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:37:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Probably more, really. Developers aren't generally conservative in
their use of stack variables

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:41:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3b289d6 MIPS: Fix TIF_32BIT undefined problem when seccomp is disabled <nelhage>

Really what we need is fractal page tables.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:44:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: g9.q
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:53:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(out of nowhere, everyone's working quietly)

"So what do you say? Monolithic kernel, microkernel, or exokernel?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:55:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can't you do the same thing you do with largepages, which is (I
assume) a PTE has a bit for "is this thing a page table or a data
page"? So you only lose the memory for the tinypages that you're
actually using.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 14:56:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

==. But I could buy that tinypages for even the stack are goin to be
excessive, maybe.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 15:10:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Haha, apparently this is the "get unwitting 6.828 students to signup
for zoobar.csail accounts" office hours session

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 15:17:51 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Why?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov  9 15:21:38 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

"It works best if you use the same password as your athena account.
Now, just go to this URL to transfer money. *gives tinyurl'ed
answer-1.txt*"

Class: geofft Instance: voice
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:40:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, between "Hallelujah", "Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi", and eight
verses of "For All The Saints", I don't have a voice any more.
Thanks, Concert Choir and LEM!

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:46:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, this is actually totally reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:46:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(he says, having spent all day in a terminal)

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:46:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Have you actually tried Unity yet?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:47:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yes. Admittedly, on oliver, which may not have the best graphics
hardware, but it just looks like no one tried to make it work. GNOME
Shell doesn't have that characteristic.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:47:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Have you tried it *recently*?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:47:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

This was Oneiric mid-summer?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:48:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Doesn't count unless you tried it post-release

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:48:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I know I need to try Unity on my laptop in a chroot at some point

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3.d
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:49:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... hm, does making /sbin/init do something like "schroot -c
oneiric-amd64-sbuild /sbin/init" work?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3.d
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:49:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Probably not. Do you have a working fstab in your chroot?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3.d
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:50:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

1. Doesn't schroot make one for me?
2. Is that hard?
3. "You mean a working symlink to /proc/mounts? Yes"

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:55:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Also, GNOME 3 is very obviously GNOME. Alt-F2 works, etc. etc.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:58:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Alt-F2 works in Unity as well

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:58:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(As long as you don’t try to use any shell quoting or other
metacharacters.)

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:58:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Does it support tab completion?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Wed Nov  9 18:59:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Haha, System Settings looks _just_ like the Mac's System Preferences

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 19:58:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> GSC

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 20:14:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It's cute how GSC is angsting about the same issues as ua-structure

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 20:14:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Except when they say "government" they seem to mean "departmental
student group" as well as "dorm government"?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov  9 20:15:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(*dorm/IFC/Panhel/LGC/offcampus)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov  9 20:33:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I can't tell if you're ITPing some ham radio packages because ham
radio is cool or because you're annoyed at node.js

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.q
Time: Wed Nov  9 20:38:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"We can't fund that"
"It's not alcohol!"
"Alcohol _paraphernalia_"

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:20:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

ugh stop spamming me

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:21:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I don't understand sophieni's accent. I think she pronounces "l",
"r", and "n" the same way?

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:21:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

just get your work email and let the spam go there

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:21:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I think the word "welfare" got corrupted to "warfare" a bit earlier

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:22:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I have it going to mokafive@ldpreload.com, which is only an address I
gave to the random web form for a trial and not to any real human,
but still

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:26:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, we've been here 1.5 hours and we're still debating whether
paper cups have wax?

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:26:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Are we funding anyone today?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:31:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Buffy (Sarah Michelle Gellar)
Puffy (Sean Combs)
Fluffy (Nathan Arce)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.d
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:32:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

Scruffy (the janitor)

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:45:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

[awkward silence]
"What do you guys think?"
"Abstain."
"I didn't even call for a vote!"

Class: geofft Instance: gsc
Time: Wed Nov  9 21:49:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh I guess we actually aren't funding anything today.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Wed Nov  9 23:38:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, one of the random social sites I can pair my G+ account with is
Quora? Impressive.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Nov 10 13:22:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

overslept.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Nov 10 13:22:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I can _probably_ do everything I meant to today with the exception of
grading. Ugh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:10:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

-> campus

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:11:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I really have no idea what's going on in 6.828 any more.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:14:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 15b4f29 ALSA: hda - Add missing DMUX initialization for auto-mic with STAC/IDT <nelhage>

What is this SMP madness?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:15:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, they're just now reading Exokernel? What have they been doing all
term?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:44:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

They have peer reviews of each other's code now.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:53:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I can never remember which of "flyer" and "flier" is "piece of paper"
and which goes after "frequent"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:55:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Are they both "flyer"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:56:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Wheel & Deal & Step To A Wave <kchen>

"dict flier" has a lot of references to "flyer".

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 10 14:56:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Outside Boy Run <kchen>

Oh, for both definitions actually.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 10 15:07:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, you... aren't doing so good at conserving battery usage

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 10 15:13:02 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

pretty != efficient

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 10 15:27:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Oh, I bet me running a VM in the background is actually the issue
here "never mind"

Class: geofft Instance: resonance
Time: Thu Nov 10 22:37:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, dubstep++

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 02:17:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Pasedeña

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 02:18:54 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Yeah, La Cañada is so confusing!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 02:21:16 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: No one puts GMs in a corner! - pbaranay [Guild Camp] <wings>

==== mherdeg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 12:45:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I wonder if the shell would be more useful had it a builtin to cover
the sorts of things that Python's os module does

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:00:00 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: And remember, if you leave your soul here, it will end up
on the table and someone will claim it. - cfjensen
 <rnjacobs>

"We call that perl"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:00:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What sort of functions in os are you thinking of? Aren't most of those
either builtins or available in /bin?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:09:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

perl doesn't make x | y easy. You have to use IPC::Open3 for half of that
sort of thing anyway

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:10:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm...you could write a pretty simple helper function for building
pipelines that took a list of lists of strings

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:10:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

also x >& /dev/null, y &, etc. etc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:11:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

The shell has too many one-or-two-character abbreviations

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:11:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

also string quoting them is annoying

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 13:11:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...but less prone to screwups

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:01:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So how are you supposed to portably grantpt() in a program with SIGCHLD
handlers?

Also, what does unlockpt() _do_?

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:03:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 13b297d smack: Remove redundant initialization. <nelhage>

I suspect "nothing", these days, but I am not sure.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:05:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: cbca663 CRIS v32: Remove config ifdef around init function for drivers/sync_serial.c <nelhage>

/* Given a fd on a master pseudoterminal, clear a kernel lock so that
   the slave can be opened.  This is to avoid a race between opening the
   master and calling grantpt() to take possession of the slave. */
int
unlockpt (fd)
     int fd __attribute__ ((unused));
{
  __set_errno (ENOSYS);
  return -1;
}

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:06:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d5bf316 [IA64-SGI] change default_sn2 to NR_CPUS==1024 <nelhage>

I think the answer is "this shit was *even more* kludgy before we had
devpts"

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:07:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2d2699d fbcon: font setting should check limitation of driver <nelhage>

Although I remain unclear what exactly the race conditions involved
were.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:10:02 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 52fa6e2 [PATCH] NBD: cosmetic cleanups <nelhage>

Although actually that's the wrong definition; see drivers/tty/pty.c
and the TIOCSPTLCK ioctl

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:36:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

yeah, ENOSYS sounds wrong...

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:37:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Aww, TIOCSPTLCK isn't in tty_ioctl(4). Shouldn't TIOC* be in there?

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:37:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2cea7b2 orinoco: Cache Symbol firmware <nelhage>

I would thinkg so, but apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:37:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

> before we had devpts
Hence "portably". If I assume Linux, I can just not grantpt() at all...

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:38:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ae87dff Input: serio - add modalias attribute and environment variable to        simplify hotplug scripts. <nelhage>

Oh, I bet the SIGCHLD issue is because of the platforms where grantpt
shells out to a suid helper. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:39:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:40:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I mean, even Linux glibc _supports_ doing that:

geofft@leveret:~/src$ ls -l /usr/lib/pt_chown 
-rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 10592 Sep 13 19:05 /usr/lib/pt_chown

I assume it just doesn't if devpts is mounted

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Fri Nov 11 14:54:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

> I saw something, should I say something?
> 
> There was a Mexican playing Beatles covers in Spanish at Downtown
> Crossing. Is that considered "odd behavior"?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Nov 11 16:25:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

It's really confusing that /home/geofft is not my homedir

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Nov 11 16:26:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b428b51 [PATCH] Fix "Remove the use of _syscallX macros in UML" <nelhage>

What is your homedir?

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Fri Nov 11 16:27:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

/mit/geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 17:46:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Constitutional amendment to get rid of patents and copyright!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 17:47:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

(I wonder how this would play out in practice and what horrible side
effects it'd have.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 17:47:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Surely you don't need a constitutional amendment for that. Article I
gives Congress the power to grant patents and suchlike, but it
doesn't *require* it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 17:58:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> perl doesn't make x | y easy.
use IPC::Run 'run';
run ['x'], '|', ['y'];

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 17:59:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Still way uglier

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:07:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

i,i y(x)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:18:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

shining-apparmor

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:21:19 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Just, no.

Class: geofft Instance: ozok
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:42:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"You have mail."
wat

Class: geofft Instance: ozok
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:42:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

... ozok uses syncsipb? That's... one approach.

Class: geofft Instance: ozok
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:45:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Anyway, I don't think this mitprint thing is working. But I take
comfort in knowing that there is at least one computer worse off than
linerva

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:48:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hey zephyr, would you call an attack that involves overwriting a
function pointer on the stack with an address of a libc function (and
the stack variables that will be passed to that function with
arguments to the libc function) a return-to-libc attack?

Does it change your answer if you go overwrite the actual return
address and ebp with a call to another libc function and a stackframe
for it?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:56:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

nosqlite

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 18:58:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Hm, this exists... "noSQLite is a lightweight zeroconf noSQL
document-oriented forking Python SQLite networked authenticated
XMLRPC database server"

Come again?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:00:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

forking?

Class: geofft Instance: gcc
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:06:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

foo.c:1:6: warning: ‘main’ is usually a function [-Wmain]

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:42:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Whoaaa the second argument of socket(2) now takes flags???

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:42:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

socket(PF_FILE, SOCK_STREAM|SOCK_CLOEXEC|SOCK_NONBLOCK, 0) = 4

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:42:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...whoa

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:48:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d2653e9 i2c: Add support for device alias names <nelhage>

Sure, whatever. I might go with "ret2libc-esque" or something. But
what's the point of the label here?

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:49:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Okay, so it appears that (on my Debian laptop),
- posix_openpt calls open("/dev/ptmx"), and then stats /dev/pts for some reason
- grantpt calls ptsname, stats the result, and then runs getgrent on
  something for some reason and does nothing with the result
- unlockpt calls the TIOCSPTLCK ioctl
- ptsname calls the TIOCGPTN ioctl

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:50:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I'm trying to decide if students have an excuse for being confused
about how they conducted the attack (which we implied would be
ret2libc)

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:51:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Sorry, statfs, not stat. It's ptsname that calls stat("/dev/pts/$i")
for no good reason

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx.d
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:53:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Is there a good reason ltrace supports -SL?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Nov 11 19:58:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Zotero
Totoro

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 20:30:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

So, uh, is TIOCSIG documented?

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 20:31:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 0ae4ea8 [PATCH] gadgetfs: fix memory leaks <nelhage>

OOC, what the hell are you trying to do?

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 20:32:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Distract myself, clearly.

Class: geofft Instance: ptmx
Time: Fri Nov 11 20:32:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh, cool, strace -p $$ followed by Ctrl-Z locks up, but not if I'm
stracing that strace in another terminal.

Class: geofft Instance: east.cambridge
Time: Fri Nov 11 23:51:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Huh.
http://www.mass.gov/anf/property-mgmt-and-construction/design-and-construction-of-public-bldgs/procurement-opps-at-dcam/state-owned-real-estate-property-for-sale.html

Class: geofft Instance: east.cambridge
Time: Fri Nov 11 23:53:23 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

I kind of thought they were still using the jail

Class: geofft Instance: east.cambridge
Time: Fri Nov 11 23:56:28 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: But what is it for?  Why does it mean? <wings>

I was told at the beginning of the summer that the jail had been
closed for a while...

Class: geofft Instance: east.cambridge
Time: Fri Nov 11 23:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

A few days ago, I saw a couple of sad looking folks inside a paddy
wagon in the garage, with some cops nearby. Certainly I see cops
going in and out all the time

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri Nov 11 23:58:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"reddit is sponsored by Skyrim"

Class: geofft Instance: debian.bug.report.q
Time: Sat Nov 12 12:55:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"The problem is that Linux/Debian crashes after I unmound this hard disk.
After unmounting this hard disk my display gets black and there are many
white
letters."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Nov 12 16:59:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

A long long time ago
I can still remember
Before January 1, 1970

Class: geofft Instance: unclear-on-the-concept
Time: Sat Nov 12 19:35:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/GUQoK.png

Class: geofft Instance: unclear-on-the-concept
Time: Sat Nov 12 19:39:45 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: You're allowed to make life changes without picking a fight with your old life.  - Angela, Bones <wings>

So if I keep installing Windows, I will have ALL THE BITS?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 12 21:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Can someone run an MIA check on a developer for me?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Nov 12 23:21:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Aww, openclipart is down

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Sun Nov 13 00:02:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

alcor / personal / wings  2011-11-13 00:04  (The FCC: now regulating physics. - adehnert)
    I still don't get what gender _is_, so...
adehnert / rkw / nelhage  2011-11-13 00:02  (8a7a854 pageflag helpers for configed-out flags)
    It's a little weird to me, too.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Nov 13 00:41:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Tyancat

Class: geofft Instance: -l
Time: Sun Nov 13 17:26:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

There's no library named "libinux"? What a wasted opportunity

Class: geofft Instance: -l
Time: Sun Nov 13 17:26:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You are familiar with libiberty, right?

Class: geofft Instance: -l
Time: Sun Nov 13 17:26:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 8baa51a [SCSI] qla2xxx: Honour 'skip process-login' option during fabric-login IOCB. <nelhage>

You Have The Power

Class: geofft Instance: -l
Time: Sun Nov 13 17:27:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

broder: Yes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 13 17:32:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

O hai darkness my old friend?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:31:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

"If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't call it research."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:40:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Goals for today:
- eat (which might translate to "make food for the next few days")
- do laundry
- keep grading
- hack on 892 project a bit

Class: geofft Instance: emacs
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:40:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

I think the thing that annoys me most about emacs is that it's
increasingly designed not to be used in a terminal window

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:41:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Geoff, you do realize that it's 7:40 _PM_ over where you are, right? Can
you explain what you mean by "today"?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:41:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

6:40. Also, that's why the goals are not that ambitious.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:50:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

sorry, typo. okay, just making sure that we agreed on definitions of "day"
:)

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:59:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

Is there a difference between "kosher" and "kosher for Passover"?

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:59:26 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I thought Passover had stricter requirements.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 18:59:48 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: jag försöker skaffa mig ett liv. <eichin>

passover adds the "no leavened bread" bits, I don't
know what else though.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:01:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I think "no fermentation of any sort"

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:01:41 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a mousetrap, baited with soap.
 <rnjacobs>

Which the rabbis have sometimes interpreted a bit generously.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:02:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: GWEEK (n.) A coat hanger recycled as a car aerial. <ahailes>

something about beans and corn too

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:03:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: DETCHANT (n.) (Of the hands or feet.) Prunelike after an overlong bath. <ahailes>

hence Kosher for Passover Coke being made with real sugar, not corn syrup

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:03:27 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: hot wax is hot, but hot glue is hotter. and solder is hotter yet.
 <rnjacobs>

"kitniyot"

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:04:00 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that an amulet of strangulation is worse than ring around the collar.
 <rnjacobs>

I thought the corn syrup thing was a fermentation thing, not a kitniyot thing.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:04:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: FAIRYMOUNT (vb.n.) Polite word for buggery. <ahailes>

I don't think so, but it's entirely possible that I'm wrong

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:04:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: FIUNARY (n.) The safe place you put something and then forget where it was. <ahailes>

where's austein when we need him?

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:05:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ULLINGSWICK (n.) An over-developed epiglottis found in middle-aged coloraturas. <ahailes>

the internet seems to agree with me

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:08:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like jhurwitz is the person to ask here.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:14:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Kosher and Kosher for Passover are two totally separate things.

Class: geofft Instance: jew
Time: Sun Nov 13 19:14:54 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Kosher for Passover is "no leavened bread, or anything else that looks
like leavened bread if you sorta squint at it". Totally separate
mitzvah than keeping kosher.

Class: geofft Instance: ioccc
Time: Sun Nov 13 20:32:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: weak but confident in self-despair <geofft>

There's an IOCCC again!
http://www.ioccc.org/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 13 23:27:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hm, I think I've done none of those four so far.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:07:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"The actress, Keiko Matsuzaka, is still working today and has not
given birth to a demonic entity.[9]"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:07:42 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From:  <pquimby>

I feel *so* much better knowing that.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:07:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... wat

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:10:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_urban_legends#Cursed_Kleenex_Commercial

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:10:55 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No, because it happens more often for them. <eichin>

"occupational hazard"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:18:02 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

"""
To escape the Kuchisake-onna, you can answer her second question with
"You're average" or "So-so", and you can escape while she is confused,
or you can throw fruit or sweets at her which she will pick up, thus
giving the victim a chance to run. One other way is to ask her if you
are pretty, she will get confused and leave.[5]
"""

She is not the brightest.  Or teh most capable of concentration.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/markdown
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:47:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

... how am I supposed to write "O(n^2)" and not have it render
"O(n<sup>2)</sup>"?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/markdown
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:51:35 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me! <eichin>

throw in a space and count on html to
hide it?  (ie.  O(n^2 )

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/markdown
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:51:37 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Fighting Ships) <eichin>

)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/markdown
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:55:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Doesn't work, you see the space.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/markdown
Time: Mon Nov 14 00:56:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do O( n^2 ), and call it a stylistic choice.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 14 14:05:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Overslept class! Again!

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 15:34:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

First serious annoyance: Alt-Tab doesn't switch between windows of
the same app. (Fortunately, Alt-Tab, hold down alt, and _arrow key
down_ pulls up a secret Alt-Tab-style thing that does, and that
functionality was very obvious... but the Alt-Tab muscle memory is
too ingrained)

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 15:36:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I think Alt-backtick is supposed to switch within an app.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 15:41:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

... huh, why didn't I try that. Thanks, that works (and pulls up the
secret switcher)

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 15:42:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I tried Ctrl-Tab. I forget that the GNOME 3 developers are hipsters
who wish they were working for Apple, not ironic hipsters who wish
they were working for Microsoft. Cmd-` makes perfect sense

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 15:53:54 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Pretty much.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 14 16:00:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Although I think GNOME's works slightly better than OS X's. There's
no popup on OS X, and I think it doesn't reset it itself until you
click, instead of when you release Cmd.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 14 16:04:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

-> campus dammit

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov 14 16:51:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Allez blogguer! *bites into WordPress*

Class: geofft Instance: alpine.doc.q
Time: Mon Nov 14 17:46:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

> In  addition to a list of actual addresses, you may use regular
> expressions  (as  used with egrep with the ignore case flag) to
> describe  the addresses you want to match. _Alpine_ will somewhat
> arbitrarily  interpret your entry as a regular expression if it
> contains  any  of  the characters *, |, +, ?, {, [, ^, $, or \.
> Otherwise,   it   will   be   treated  literally. 

uh

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:14:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

So is there a good option for making a tmpfs that can use as much of
your free disk space as possible if it needs to?

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:14:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Make a swap file?

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:14:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 65b4c50 [RAW]: Consolidate proto->hash callback <nelhage>

"haha, you said swap"

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Vaguely annoying. Also, is it reasonable for a distribution to make a
sparse swap file the size of your disk?

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:15 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> sparse swap file
No such thing

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Also also, can I say that the tmpfs can use it but regular things
that use RAM can't?

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Aha.

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else.d
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Wait, can you turn a sparse file into tmem?

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The kernel resolves the blocks backing a swap file when it gets swapon'd

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:15:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And I believe it writes directly to them, bypassing the filesystem

Class: geofft Instance: tmp.else
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:16:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Basically the "obvious" way to implement this to me is to mark a
directory such that the VFS / filesystem driver never feels the need
to write things to disk except under memory pressure.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:19:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

linux-image-generic-pae
Subject: Gener1c P4E -- Enl.arge ur adress sp4ce

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:19:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:39:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Oh _Ice Cream Sandwich_ I keep parsing that as Internet Calendaring
Server or something

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec@
Time: Mon Nov 14 18:41:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I will set every startup in the world on fire.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 14 19:06:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I see you Ruby on Rails with the site I love, and I'm like, Django

Class: geofft Instance: else.wat
Time: Mon Nov 14 20:17:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Berkman Center to help Lady Gaga establish Born This Way Foundation

Class: geofft Instance: scanner
Time: Mon Nov 14 21:09:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

My scanner is going "Kerberos server not available" #firstworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Nov 14 21:31:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

All these syscalls are safe, except vmsplice. Attempt no INT 80 here.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 14 21:32:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

afk lunch

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Nov 15 00:05:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Dammit Tetzel

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Nov 15 00:05:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(and Henry VIII)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:42:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I remember my dad speaking in good terms of (IIRC) Billy Graham's
example of never being alone with a woman who wasn't his wife (in any
situation, including a lunch meeting) -- if necessary, he'd bring his
wife along. I suppose the parallel for me would be to not be alone
with someone I'm not dating. While I understand the motivation, it's
also terribly obvious how this makes communities dominated by one
gender continue to be that way

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:43:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(also, if it's not obvious, I don't actually follow that advice)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:43:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

See, I have serious fundamental problems with advice like that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:44:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Namely, it assumes that men can't control themselves and that men and
women can't be close friends.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:45:25 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

This is actually one of the more subtle challenges for
women in business. e.g. if I have lunch with the chairman
of my board (divorced rich 50-something), it's clearly
mentoring. If I was female, the implications/inference
could be more challenging. As I recall some of the big well
run companies (GE or something) started a practice of
encouraging cross-gender mentoring to try to fix this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:46:19 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

It doesnt' mean all men can't control themeslves, but it
does mean that men who can't control themselves are
validated, and encouraged to require the world to
accomodat3 them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:46:43 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

(I don't have the else context, fwiw)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:51:05 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Don't call 'em frosh till you can see the whites of their eyes! - lexrj <wings>

Does this mean bisexuals should never be alone with anyone? ;)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:48:29 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

If you're a public figure, it may have more to do with avoiding the
appearance of impropriety than losing control.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:48:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Saying everyone should do this amounts to a belief that men can't
control themselves. Just personally doing this could be a more benign
desire not to give anyone the reasonable _ability_ to claim foul play
on your part.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:48:50 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

But yes, very heterocentric and patriarchial advice.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:49:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(i.e. ==ghudson)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:49:38 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

And if you're bisexual and prone to three-ways, you can't even be
alone with *two* other people...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:53:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

==ghudson, though I wouldn't even limit it to "public figures."  

Even if I've done nothing wrong, /allegations/ of impropriety--even
from someone I've met with, or a third party--could ruin my life.  

This is one (though not the only) reason why my office hours as a TA
were in a public lounge rather than my actual office.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:53:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

er, s/--even/--whether/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:58:29 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Turn that "AAAAAHH" upside down (er, backwards) and laugh in 6.02's face! HHAAAAA! - peairs <wings>

The three-way still holds for one (hetero) man around two females!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:56:07 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==dwilson and ghudson

It can be primarily a CYA thing.  Of course, the same social
undertones are still there.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 11:58:23 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

True, but at least then you can be alone with two people of the same
sex.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:05:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah, this advice assumes everyone is straight, cisgendered,
monogamous, a Christian televangelist, etc. "Isn't everyone?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:06:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

But yeah, while the motivation is more about appearances of impropriety,
it still has the end result of sucking in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:09:34 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: So everyone should continue to not panic. - 6.01 <wings>

My Christian channel never took off :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:07:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(tibbetts: the else can be uncharitably summarized "I'm a girl in CS and
people talk to me differently because I have cooties")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:10:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I'm curious how GE pulls it off without appearing to be sketchballs
at the corporate level.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:14:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> never being alone with a woman who wasn't his wife

Does two men and one woman count as being alone with a woman? (Do men
make valid "chaperones"?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:15:18 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I suspect it's contextually dependent.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:18:12 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: What do you call a Piper who's afraid to do something? Chicken wings! - danjared <wings>

"Do two women?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:15:34 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I.e., the woman's brother, or husband, would.  His friend, might not.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:15:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> if I have lunch with the chairman of my board (divorced rich
> 50-something)

Male or female? I'm assuming male from the later comment?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:18:39 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guess one approach is "never meet alone with anyone", which is...
not entirely a terrible idea?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:18:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It works for people prone to misconduct accusations as well as people
dealing with organized crime!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:19:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Scheduling sucks. (Also, politics is harder, although that might be a
good thing)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:20:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

Yes, the chairman of my board is male.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:20:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Like, if I had to get a chaperone every time I hacked on Debathena with
Liz...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:20:43 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:22:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

Not finding a citation on the GE thing about encouraging
cross gender. But in general GE does a shitload of
leadership training and mentoring. e.g. (and a little bit
about gender here)
http://www.coachingandmentoring.com/reversementoringresults.htm

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:23:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

IIRC, Boy Scouts have a rule that the adult leaders are supposed to
be in public whenever meeting with a scout. You could do that too.
(So, like, meet in the elevator lobby in W20, or the lobby in Liz's
building, or something.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:24:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Or the SIPB office, in the common case that there are others there.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:24:51 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 11/16-18. London 12/12-15. <tibbetts>

Scouts have a big thing about this. It can make arranging
car rides complicated, as adults are not supposed to be one
on one with kids who are not their own.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:25:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

It doesn't help if there aren't others there.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:25:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"but there are windows"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:25:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Elevator lobby usually has people, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:25:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

What am I supposed to do, "Don't go home, I can't be trusted alone with a
girl"? Zephyr -c sipb asking for a chaperone?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:29:08 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: This may be an attempt to trick you. <eichin>

... you mean there's a practical application of the fox/goose/corn puzzle? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:30:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:33:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(frop personals, for those catching up, we're discussing the advice I
zephyred at 11:42 in the abstract, not "hey zephyr how can I be less of a
creep")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:51:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

-> Galleria -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:51:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Okay, K-9 is actually working on this phone.

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:52:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

On the other hand, setting it to vibrate on every new mail was probably a
mistake

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 12:52:30 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I like its customizability.  its a pretty good app when you fiddle
with the settings for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:10:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Both bash and dash are happy with
cat << EOF; echo moo
oink
EOF
but vim's syntax highlighter isn't. Who's right?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:24:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, bash and dash, definitionally, I would think

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:25:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Well. Is this a non-POSIXism?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:26:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

vim disallows $() in /bin/sh, which makes sme amount of sense because
Solaris' non-POSIX /bin/sh doesn't like it

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:26:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

A priori, I would say no, given that POSIX compatibility is one of
dash's main features

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:26:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

dash supports printf, which is non-POSIX. And [.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:40:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

POSIX does specify both printf and [ as utilities, and that “an
implementation may choose to make any utility a built-in”.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:45:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

My reading of
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18_07_04
suggests that you can have as many heredocs as you want on a single
line.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:47:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Oh, and in fact the following informative section explicitly lists an
example beginning ‘cat <<eof1; cat <<eof2’.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:57:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Re printf, see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=539158

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:57:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

The question is whether you're permitted to use printf if /usr isn't
mounted.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:59:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

*stab*

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 14:59:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Correct response.

Class: geofft Instance: sourceforge.q
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:02:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"We have received a request from 172.29.29.1 for subscription of your
email address ..."

Class: geofft Instance: sourceforge.q
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:02:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Okay that is the world's least helpful IP address for abuse tracking.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:02:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 58fd3aa [CVE-2009-0029] System call wrappers part 01 <nelhage>

Sweet Cthulhu, who is this asshole?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:04:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

So you know what's currently in front of the Debian technical
committee, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:04:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: c67499c [NETNS]: Tcp-v4 sockets per-net lookup. <nelhage>

Something idiotic?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:05:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Whether the maintainer of the "leave" package is allowed to make
debian/rules a shell script.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:05:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2466ac6 Blackfin: include the cpu compiled version in /proc/cpuinfo <nelhage>

Ooh.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:05:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bdca3f2 remove the bouncing email address of David Campbell <nelhage>

That's, like, the opposite of idiotic.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:05:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

... Why?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:05:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2894801 [PATCH] kbuild: display compile version <nelhage>

Because debian/rules should be a fucking shell script?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Except that it doesn't ever call a Makefile, it calls cc directly.
Also it's like 40 lines long.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:06:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: daeba89 SUNRPC: don't call flush_dcache_page() with an invalid pointer <nelhage>

No one uses it like a makefile any more, and it just results in
abominations like CDBS, wherein innocent people are forced to attempt
to program in 'make' instead of a reasonable language.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:06:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

He could totally do this in fewer lines with dh, and also it's the
only package in the argument where it's not a Makefile.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:07:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah, the counterargument is "so, uh, should I pull a Joey Hess and do
#!/usr/bin/make -f
%:
        debian/rules.sh $@
or is that not okay either? And if not, why is it okay for Joey Hess?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Tue Nov 15 15:10:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

It's moderately untrustworthy turles all the way down!

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Tue Nov 15 17:32:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hm, oops, I broke my ability to send mail

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 17:41:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"We could recognize..."
"No we're not recognizing Campus Dining."

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:11:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"To 'Geoffrey Thomas, Alum'."
"I'm not five people though."
"There's no rule that says we can only allocate space to _groups_!"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:12:02 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...what?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:13:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Apparently I'm being allocated office space.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:14:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sweet!  Whining pays off, again!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:14:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I always suspected that Obama would have a children-baking dog. <wings>

I want an office!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:14:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Fill out an application

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:15:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I always suspected that Obama would have a children-baking dog. <wings>

"I can do that"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Nov 15 18:50:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Apparently I'm in the ASA DB Appreciation Society. It's a club sport.

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:02:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hm, would Jesse take a Hesiod patch?

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:03:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...why do you need Hesiod?

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:03:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Because lulz

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:03:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Because mail.mit.edu is clearly wrong, and Hesiod pobox entries are
a standard and $USER.mail isn't"

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:04:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All 4 Couples Pass the Sea <kchen>

Does the software default to mail.mit.edu or something?

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:04:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

It defaults to mail.$DOMAIN for both IMAP and SMTP, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:04:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All 8 Alter the Wave <kchen>

Hmm, that seems kind of silly.

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:05:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...so instead you'd have it try to do a Hesiod lookup against MIT.EDU?

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:05:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hmmm...

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:06:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

*Checks gmail settings* Looks like none of my e-mail accounts (MIT,
work, gmail) use mail.$DOMAIN.

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:08:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Thunderbird has a list of subdomains it tries (mail., imap., smtp., etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:09:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Actually, Thunderbird has a protocol for account auto-config 

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:09:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You should make K-9 support *that* if you want to do something productive

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:11:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Oh right, the .well-known?

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:12:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:12:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Autoconfiguration

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:12:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I also want to know how the Exchange support works and port that to
alpine/c-client

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:13:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://codethis.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/an-inside-look-at-exchange-support-in-k-9-mail/

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:13:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Doesn't support 2010 from the sound of it

Class: geofft Instance: k-9
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:28:03 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==  domain/.well-known is the right way to do this  "It even works at
MIT"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:39:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

So Mark Crispin's fork of uw-imap includes, among other things, "PCI
auditing compliance." What does this even mean

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:45:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

LIST:geofft-lovers

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:45:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Dammit, Piper, I wish I could give you a really shitty straw. - apfarr <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:46:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:47:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 657205b vxge: Update driver_config->vpath_per_dev for each function in probe. <nelhage>

.... My first thought was "I don't recall that list, but I bet it's
my fault".

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:47:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 19:47:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 28c2c51 usb: musb: remove dead code from procfs <nelhage>

And in fact: Owner: USER nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 21:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

group to us: "ASA, it would be a great help to us if you could invent
teleportation."

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 21:24:10 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "I have the technology to give you more static IPs than Asia." <pquimby>

Teleportation... I would settle for a few extra buildings and some
cash.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Nov 15 22:02:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Tue Nov 15 22:41:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What gorup?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 23:26:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Wait it's 6.046 takehome week already? aaaaaaa

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 23:28:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, so, apparently in 2011, they did the fall takehome over Splash,
and the spring takehome over Easter/Steer Roast.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 15 23:28:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hm, did we run it over Splash last fall?

Class: geofft Instance: status.chestertonq
Time: Wed Nov 16 02:00:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Here dies another day
During which I have had eyes, ears, hands
And the great world round me;
And with tomorrow begins another.
Why am I allowed two?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 16 12:55:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

-> -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Nov 16 14:49:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I bet I wanted to go talk to SAO today. Or CAC, or someone... oops

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Nov 16 14:50:28 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You still can.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Nov 16 14:50:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

No, I have office hours 3-5

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf.lyrics
Time: Wed Nov 16 14:56:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Drop-kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life
End over end neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop-kick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life.
Make me, oh, make me, Lord, more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly temptation below
I've got the will, Lord, if you've got the toe.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf.lyrics
Time: Wed Nov 16 14:57:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(This is the song my church's youth choir director threatened us with
if we didn't learn our normal music)

Class: geofft Instance: cac.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:01:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"This process is virtual, so you will be using your virtual
scheduling account."

You keep using that word &c.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:03:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I hate you all.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:04:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Subscribing to this list was potentially my dumbest decision in
recent memory

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:04:37 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

... kinda.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:03:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is there a web archive or something?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:05:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

We are having the longest discussion ever about whether some ham
radio tool from the early '90s should keep the name /usr/bin/node or
whether node.js (which uses #!/usr/bin/node as a shebang line on
every distro where it's been successfully packaged) should get the name

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:06:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which particular thread is worth reading to see the stupid?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:06:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Is anyone maintaining (the ham radio tool) node" and also "Two
groups of users, one distro in the middle", which is the same thread
with a dumber subject line

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:05:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oooh, ooh, can we talk about /usr/bin/open while we're at it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:07:39 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> Not every machine runs popcorn
popcorn? Really? someone at debian can't spell.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:08:16 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, "has anyone mentioned alternatives yet?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

You're not allowed to use alternatives for two programs that happen
to use the same name for two different purposes.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:08:53 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

aww

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:10:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That would be hilarious. "Why is my web server acting like ae radio?!"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:10:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

You can use alternatives for two programs that provide the same
functionality in different ways (alpine's /usr/bin/pico vs. nano's
/usr/bin/pico is a good example; also virtual facilities like
x-window-manager)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:11:57 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's times like this that I'm sad that the Novell vision for /opt
failed

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:13:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

But like, I don't really care that this is dumb. Both upstreams
should have picked a better name than "node". node.js is young enough
that you can convince upstream to change to like #!/usr/bin/nodejs or
something and it's not too painful. The ham radio tool is apparently
only ever called from this other superserver and nobody runs the node
command directly.

"I hate you all" is that people are using this to fling unrelated
personal insults:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/166855

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:13:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah, it's remarkable how much, in retrospect, /mit was the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What was the alternative to /mit?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:10 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Haha@ 
According to [1], this isn't the first time the nodejs folks ran into
a name problem. Up until March of 2009 they were using the name
"server," a far too generic name that compelled them to switch to the
current "node." Even then they should have realized that the new name
was too generic.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"/usr/bin"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

mherdeg: did you see the reply to that?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:35 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

/usr/bin, really!?!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

That's what we do today...?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:14:47 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:13:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The point is /mit works a lot like /opt was supposed to
/mit/<package name>/bin/<command you want to run>

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:16:22 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

I also REALLY like the proposal that Debian should ship a wrapper
which intelligently runs one or the other tool based on whatever
smart algorithm they can devise. What a great idea.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

achernya: /mit where you explicitly add this or add that tends to
work just fine for people's use cases -- you rarely have one person
who wants to run both node.js and ham radio stuff.

But Debian packages can't gratuitously conflict because they have the
same binary name. ==jdreed, if one had to explicitly "add nodejs" or
"add hamradio" or something, this would be fine.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:17:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The real problem here is that /usr/bin is a single namespace, and
there are O(20,000) debian packages.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:17:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:18:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Other dumb cases: /usr/bin/mh (see also this month's "directory under
/usr/bin -- Ok or not?" thread)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:17:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, Debian is a distro.  They should have conflict-resolution
policy.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:19:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

They do. They have the King Solomon policy: "If the two of you can't
figure it out, you both rename your binaries"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:18:10 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do they actually enforce it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:19:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

And then everyone's slowly realizing that it works well as an
extrabiblical anecdote and poorly in practice. I'm not sure it's ever
come to this before.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:18:51 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"On the other hand, if Debian was good at conflict resolution, we
wouldn't have iceweasels or seamonkeys."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:20:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

But the ham-node maintainer is pulling a fake mother and saying "I'm
happy to do an upload that renames my binary, you just need to do an
upload where you rename your binary too" to the node.js maintainer

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:20:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

(Not directly relevant, but seamonkey is an upstream name.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:20:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What's the point of that upload, then?!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:21:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

It follows policy.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 15:21:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

The point of the policy is to exist and never get used. Apparently
people hate each other enough that they're trying to get the policy
used. See "I hate you all.", supra.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:43:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Byobu, byobu, give me your answer, do
I can't use screen, it's all because of you
I don't need a fancy taskbar
A terminal's all I asked for
So I'll give up and use tmux
And it's all because of byobu!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:43:57 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dustin Kirkland demo'd tmux-based byobu at UDS this year

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:44:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

noooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:44:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, dude. This is not hard to fix:

ebroder@warwick:~$ byobu-disable 

The Byobu window manager will no longer be launched automatically at
login.

To re-enable this behavior later, just run:
  byobu-enable

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:45:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"but it sets a bad precedent if I have to disable twenty dozen dumb
things"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:45:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9890b12 PCI: Free resource files in error path of pci_create_sysfs_dev_files() <nelhage>

I mean, I gave up and switched to tmux because screen is a piece of
shit.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:45:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Also acceptable

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:45:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

byobu still isn't enabled by default, so you did *somethign* to turn it
on

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:46:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1e40bcf ath9k: distinguish between device initialization and ath_softc init <nelhage>

Also because I have a policy of switching away from GNU software
whenever there's an easy other option.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:46:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Anyway, I still use Debian, which ... has a horribly orphaned byobu,
unless we got that fixed at the last Debianathon

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:46:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

nelhage: I still want to try rebuilding as much of the Debian archive
as I can with dietlibc and see what happens

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:47:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 203fe8b [PATCH] dvb: Fix Mini DiSEqC bug <nelhage>

So I probably really should see if clang++ works for me.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:49:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

There's not really a libstdc++ option, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:49:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Does SGI not have a free one?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:50:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 438e2ce freezer: measure freezing time <nelhage>

The clang guys are working on one, right? It's jut not there yet?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:50:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think so.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:55:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I fixed byobu. 

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:56:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yay

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:56:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I put a new version in unstable, which got migrated to wheezy, and got
an SRU for squeeze.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:56:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I should probably build an even newer one for unstable.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:57:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/src/alpine$ apt-cache show byobu=4.37-1 | grep Maintainer
Maintainer: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya@mit.edu>

\o/

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:58:17 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah. So if there's anything wrong with it I guess you should yell at
me. Or directly at upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:58:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

achernya: Have you pinged Dustin about pulling the package into Ubuntu
through Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 18:59:38 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, not yet.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 16 19:00:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Although I really should, I fixed his debian/ stupidity.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 19:36:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oof, you got me reading the thread.

Where I learned that apparently Ulrich Drepper is no longer the primary
maintainer of glibc?  I hope this is good news!
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/166753

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 21:05:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft, you will enjoy this bug thread:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=28251

Note particularly toward the end where he actually rolls up his sleeves
and tries it.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Nov 16 21:06:43 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(link that led me to it:

"Result: DATA LOSS BUG, still present THIRTEEN YEARS LATER"
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/166742 

This is Ian Jackson.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Nov 16 21:12:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Can we add a new space allocation category named "sucks to be you"?

Class: geofft Instance: pbaranay.zsig.misread
Time: Wed Nov 16 21:29:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Clearly the solution to everybody's problems is leg hipsters." 

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 16 22:15:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

-> ET

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 22:59:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Note: You can email your students using C5553s1-students@localhost"

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:15:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Ah, Alex tells me there's a bugtracker on Github, yay

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:19:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Filed three bugs. One of them got closed immediately with no words I
can make sense of.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:20:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

That means ESP is a real open source project! Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:24:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

The second one was closed and fixed properly three minutes later by
someone two feet from me. Less of a real open source project.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:27:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you talking about the custom forms one?

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:28:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah. I don't know what custom forms is

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:29:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I didn't actually close that ticket...

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:29:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

No, you closed and fixed properly my second ticket

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:32:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Exactly what you want to see when reporting a bug:
"Ooh, hey, someone noticed that we're on github now!"

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:33:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

No, I fixed ~properly, but *didn't* close your second ticket.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:33:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Github doesn't tell me by mail if it's closed or not...

Class: geofft Instance: esp.q
Time: Wed Nov 16 23:33:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

For all I can tell from the e-mail, you sent me a pull request for barnowl.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:04:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...for what cases?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:04:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Is that, like, "we want to build a theater" kind of grandiose plans? or
what?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

This was someone who didn't really understand that we don't entirely
have several free offices in W20 to give one per group, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:13:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"where by 6-3 I mean SIPB"

Class: geofft Instance: owasp
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:37:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

wut
https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Internal_software_developer

Class: geofft Instance: owasp
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:38:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh dear god, not OWASP.

Class: geofft Instance: owasp
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:39:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe the whole organization isn't like this, but we used some of the
software from it at my last job and it was staggeringly terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: owasp
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:44:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Oh? I only know them from the Top 10 thing

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:50:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Can we have geofft bacon?"
"Oooh. Ignoring the whole cannibalism thing..."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:50:54 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You should bring in bacon that you photoshoped to be geofft-brand.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:52:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Congratulations, there are actually no Google hits for 'slutty web
server'."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:53:51 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I beg to differ.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:54:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I guess it was one word

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:58:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Meh, I mean, it's not unreasonable to give one office per group.
Assuming we actually had the space.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:58:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

That doesn't sound egregious

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:58:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah, we... don't have the space. Hence "sucks to be you"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:59:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

... I'm pretty sure we have more student groups than rooms in the
largest dorm

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 00:59:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh man! That'd be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:00:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Simmons: Student Center Edition"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:00:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We could get like 30 student group offices by just raiding LEF/ARCADE
for money and getting some dorm rooms!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:00:40 2011 Host: ET-ONE-O-SEVEN.MIT.EDU
From: 2 2 2 5 11 3003431 <cesium>

"It's only a small step to having more student groups than students..."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:01:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"That's not really that unreasonable, of course the size of the power
set of x is bigger than x"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:01:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

So, the real downside is that your student group building gets as far
from campus as Hilles is from Harvard.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:14:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

There used to be a number of student groups that were in dorm rooms

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:14:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Or at least, in common spaces in dorms. I think WMBR used to be in
Senior House?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:14:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(that is, back when it was WTBS)

Class: geofft Instance: sql.injection
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:39:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Hm, the Neopets error page if you try to log in with a username
containing a single quote is different from the error page if you try
to log in with a username containing another funny character

Class: geofft Instance: sql.injection
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:41:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Also, this is owned by Viacom? huh

Class: geofft Instance: sql.injection
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:44:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Okay this error message is special
http://www.neopets.com/userlookup.phtml?user=foo%3C/bar

Class: geofft Instance: sql.injection
Time: Thu Nov 17 01:43:16 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Hahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Nov 17 15:57:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

-> W20

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Nov 17 17:42:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Do I want to go listen to Khan?

Class: geofft Instance: mailman
Time: Thu Nov 17 18:18:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Does Mailman respect Sender or something for "no actually I'm on this
list, I'm just using a different From"?

Class: geofft Instance: mailman
Time: Thu Nov 17 18:22:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Also, outgoing.mit.edu doesn't accept arbitrary envelope senders even
if I'm authenticated?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:36:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:36:42 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What? No!

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:37:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:37:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Are you on something?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:38:01 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Go go gadget xfce

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:43:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

... ... Haven't we been over the "don't hit on everyone who replies
to your mail and happens to have a female name" thing already? About
five hundred times?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:43:51 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wha-what?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:43:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

... really?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:44:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

http://mid.gmane.org/4EC5C5BC.3060100@cox.net

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:44:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(Also, from the shared e-mail address, I assumed this guy was married
or something...)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:45:56 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

is that hitting on?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 21:46:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure it's been previously determined to
be inappropriate for Debian lists. (And I know Debian cares about this)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:00:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yuck.  Doesn't sound like something his wife (?) who shares the email
address would be happy to see either.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:00:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:13:36 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: Observable Time Loop <phurst>

I don't know if I consider it 'hitting on' but it's way inappropriate
for any kind of even semi-professional conversation.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:20:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5c8c755 [SERIAL] don't disable xscale serial ports after autoconfig <nelhage>

I'd broadly consider that "hitting on". But whether or not you do,
yeah, it's pretty fucking clearly inappropriate.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:25:51 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

What an asshole, who writes "thanks allot"?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Thu Nov 17 22:26:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

He's alloting his gratitude, you see.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:24:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Number of people marked as "class of x" who were on the doom list in year x:
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/doom.png

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:25:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What happened in 2007?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:25:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I dunno!

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:25:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

what...happened in 2010?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:25:54 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Obummer. <aatharuv>

What's the extraneous bar to the right of 2011?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:26:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

The label. I was sloppy about chart technique :)

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:26:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

dwilson: I have more of an idea, and that's that lots of people
started showing up as class of 2011

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:32:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

It seems that that should cause the 2011 bar to be higher, though.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:33:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

"Maybe all the '11s turned into '12s."

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:33:16 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: By 2010, according to senior Intel architects, a CPU will have 
processing power equivalent to the brain of a bumble bee - The Economist, several years back.
(Is this actually true now?) <aatharuv>

What do the # entries indicate -- people whose accounts have already been
deactivated and are being purged?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:33:35 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

If you grep -v '#' the results for 2007 seem more reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:36:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not sure what they indicate, but here's one with those grepped out:
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/doom2.png

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:38:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass Thru <kchen>

I think those are accounts that were never registered.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:39:59 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Delurk and get a free postcard! <aatharuv>

So many accounts were never registered for a class year? Did accounts
create accounts for everyone who got _accepted_?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:40:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Separate Around 1 To A Line <kchen>

Although I have to say that I'm kind of puzzled that there's a # entry
in the doom.not list this year.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:44:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

I'd guess that it might be people who were coming and then didn't.
4/23 of 2014s on the list are # entries this year, 848/926 of 2013s,
and 19/50.  Although actually, the 2013 numbers seem odd too.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:45:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Wheel & Deal <kchen>

Oops, 19/50 is for 2012.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:47:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

So, is it just me, or are the actual '11s not on the doom list this year?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:48:48 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: By 2010, according to senior Intel architects, a CPU will have 
processing power equivalent to the brain of a bumble bee - The Economist, several years back.
(Is this actually true now?) <aatharuv>

There are 866 2011's on this years doom list.

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:49:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

I know that. Are any of them '11s, or are they all '10s?

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:52:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

In quickly skimming that list, they all look like folks my year...

Class: geofft Instance: doom
Time: Thu Nov 17 23:52:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: stuck in the Zephyr monad <geofft>

(of the ones I recognize)

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Nov 18 00:40:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Every February washed away <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Nov 18 00:41:21 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And, of course, "nevermind guys, I figured it out"

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Nov 18 00:42:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Fri Nov 18 03:09:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

... a BU professor is running a meth lab out of her apartment?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:48:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

For all that Coq is about proving theorems about a nice ML-like
functional language, the language you use to construct proofs is
painfully imperative and basically untyped.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:55:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Stays behind as colors celebrate <geofft>

You feel productive! You must have been working on SITTING DOWN AND
GETTING SOMETHING DONE ALREADY GEEZ.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:55:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:56:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Seldom mentioned on the radio <geofft>

Anyway, I, uh, finished grading lab1 for 6.858.

This is exciting for reasons other than y'all getting grades.
Specifically, it means I no longer have a shell script running kvm in
a giant for loop on my laptop, so my laptop will get reasonable
battery life and also I can reboot it without losing state

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:57:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

Also, I remember now why I nightshift -- it's because zephyr shuts up.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:57:58 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Not reliably, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:58:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

lalalalalal. I'm not listening.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:58:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

ooh! I just realized that I can nightshift now that I don't have
to interview and everything!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 18 04:59:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Worse than swearing, worse than calling names <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:23:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

On the plus side, I was not misquoted.
On the minus side, they called me "Geoffrey G. Thomas, a graduate
student ...". Not even the courtesy of being "G", let alone "'10" or
"'11" or something. :)

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:25:17 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Tech style recommends 'G' but allows other forms where the 'G' would be
awkward. It was felt that "Geoffrey G. Thomas G" was just a bit too
crazy.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:25:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

We have also been criticized by some for "Why do all these people have the
same last name, G.?"

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:26:00 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

“Geoff "3G" Thomas”

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:26:31 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

kcr++

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:26:41 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I suspect the Tech would be happy to hew to your preference in this regard,
however.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:27:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

jhawk: Hahaha, I didn't realize this was an actual style guide thing
and explicit discussion. I assumed it was "frosh reporter wasn't
aware of the G convention" or "frosh reporter didn't realize I did my
undergrad here" or something

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:27:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

I don't actually have a preference, and yes, that would be a bunch of Gs.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:28:03 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

moar G's than your name has room for.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:28:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[*] Only sorta true.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:28:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, there are editors, you know.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:29:52 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

On the other hand, I can't see how Phil Walsh could have been quoted
saying this was "fairly expensive." What kind of crack are they on?
Surely this is well beneath six figures.
Maybe I'm mis-calibrated, but I think "fairly expensive" is six-to-eight
figures...

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:31:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

I assume he means it's more than CAC's random discretionary
don't-have-to-think-about-it-just-spend-it budget. (See also, he's
waiting on being able to get money not from CAC's own budget to do
this)

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:32:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

In unrelated Tech news, the phrase "With desks as the first defense
against intruders" conjures up amusing mental images.

Class: geofft Instance: tech
Time: Fri Nov 18 05:33:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, perhaps, but my point is that the editing didn't meet my
standards.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Nov 18 15:46:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

Rachel and Leah (ASA and SAO)
Rachel and Leah (Jacob's wives)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:17:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

I'm not sure how I feel about tying gender identity into salvation.
(Or vice versa, I'm not sure which it is)

http://www.manup116.com/

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:19:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

That looks to be a lot more sexist than gender-issues-y, but I haven't
looked at it very thoroughly yet... (and probably won't).

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:20:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

Hm. I'm not sure I can characterize the distinction...

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:22:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

geofft: when you say "gender identity" do you mean in terms of
self-identification as male or female or in terms of what "manliness" means?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:23:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

because I think this page is about the latter and about people who
are biologically male not self-identifying as men are

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:23:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: **I move away from the mic to breathe in <geofft>

where are my quarters

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:24:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

In terms of what "manliness" means.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:24:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

nod

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:24:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

"gender roles"?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:24:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

"complementarianism"?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Nov 18 17:24:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, I think "gender roles" is a more accurate way of saying it

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:39:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

My mom doesn't want me to go to Stanford for Ph.D. because she wants
me to go to a "name-brand" university? I am confused

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:39:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:39:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Maybe your parents are from an alternative universe where Stanford is
a community college?

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:40:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

At least in my worldview, Stanford is in the top half dozen colleges
in the US, both generally and for CS...

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:40:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't she in academia?

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 19:41:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

Supposedly

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 20:31:44 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Stanford is a junior university.

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 20:31:48 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Just look at the name!

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 20:31:56 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Leighland Stanford Junior University

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 20:32:52 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

(I am told this is a big joke at Berkeley: a friend whose dad got his
PhD at Berkeley took Stanford off his list of places to apply for AI
grad school because he didn't want his dad to make this joke for the
rest of his life.)

Class: geofft Instance: parents
Time: Fri Nov 18 20:33:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:04:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

I kind of want to ask $housemate how she fees about being an Air
Force reservist in this political climate, but I also kind of don't
want to bring up politics

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:06:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I avoid bringing up politics with anyone in the military.

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:09:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

... how do I add a DS

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:10:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

Oh, there it is.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:22:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But did they know each other in the light <geofft>

Hm, I can't figure out how to search for other users without doing so
via Facebook or Twitter. This is definitely not it, though:

> We searched for "khaki" since "kyoki" had no results.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:22:34 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

ha!

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:23:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

click on the visitors button

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:23:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

Hm, the "stumblers" link worked.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:23:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, or that

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:24:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

... okay I clicked "meet another stumbler" two times and got

No Such Username

You are attempting to view an account which does not exist.
If you already have an account, please login.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:24:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

;_;

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:24:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, we're pretty broken

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:24:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the other day, we spent 20 minutes or so in the office trying to figure out how
to send each other messages

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:25:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

Also, why is it showing me only 20-something-year-old women? Is this
secretly OKCupid?

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:25:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

they're our biggest demographic

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:25:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

so statistically ...

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:25:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

I guess that works too.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:26:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Huh? What's going on here?

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:28:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

... am I being dumb, or is there no obvious way to paste in a URL and
say that I like it?

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:28:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: **I move away from the mic to breathe in <geofft>

Oh there it is.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:32:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made you turn your head the other way <geofft>

... there's a "dating" checkbox in the account settings? Are you
_sure_ this isn't secretly OKCupid?

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:33:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

at some point in the far past, we tried to get users to give us absurd amounts
of data

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:33:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

including their relationship status, religion, etc

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:33:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

it didn't really work

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:33:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

Yeah, I see that I can fill these out. I also see that I chose not to.

Class: geofft Instance: stumbleupon
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:34:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, basically

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:47:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

"irregex"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Nov 18 22:48:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You mean, the rest of perl?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Nov 18 23:04:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, Perl REs aren't really regular either.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Nov 18 23:04:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

Right.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:20:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Some stay dry and others feel the pain <geofft>

I want a cronjob that runs "git fetch" on all my repos when I'm online

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:20:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

I guess this is reasonably easy to write. What's the command-line way
of testing whether you're online? nm-something?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:24:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

nmcli -m multiline nm status | grep -qx "STATE: *connected"
sounds good enough.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:32:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

-> campus

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:44:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f191800 [IA64] Export cpu cache info by sysfs <nelhage>

==. I have a cron job that runs 'git remote update' in linux-2.6
overnight on my work desktop, since that takes *forever*.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:45:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

Your desktop is always on. I really want cronjobs that run out of
network-manager, or something awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:45:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

i,i "cloud-to-laptop messaging"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:45:48 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 1e99d97 [PATCH] ide-tape: warn about soon to be removed OnStream support <nelhage>

Yeah, I get what you want. Just pointing out I've had a related urge.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:46:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

Anyway, I now have this cronjob running hourly if network is up.
We'll see how that goes.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:46:54 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: spectrophotometer cozy <eichin>

doesn't anacron do that? or does it just avoid
stacking up jobs?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:47:38 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: CAUTION: OBJECTS IN SCREEN ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR <eichin>

(hmm, looks like it's a weaker version.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Nov 19 16:47:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

1. If anyone's interested in a 4BR apartment in East Cambridge for
~$2430/month starting January, let me know.
2. If anyone has a place that I can stay over IAP, let me know.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Nov 19 17:00:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

anacron isn't network aware. It's just power aware (both in the "is
this machine plugged into power" and the "is this machine powered on"
sense)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Nov 19 18:29:25 2011 Host: 192.168.11.171
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> _actually_ to campus

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:20:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

What is "pith"?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:21:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

Also, why does all of alpine's code suck so much

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:24:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Isnt it a type of cork used to make helmets?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:25:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The school books say it can't be here again <geofft>

For all I can tell from this code, it might as well be

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:26:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

/*
 * GENERALIZED STORAGE FUNCTIONS.  Idea is to allow creation of
 * storage objects that can be written into and read from without
 * the caller knowing if the storage is core or in a file
 * or whatever.
 */

why would you ever think that's a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:47:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

"I need three security volunteers, I'll give you instructions to be
executed at the end of the hour"

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:47:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That... seems reasonable?

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:48:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

To kill off three security volunteers?

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:49:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

I know ESP has a lot of manpower, but it seems excessive.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:51:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh, the phrasing seems mostly reasonable to me.

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:57:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Rachel G Chasin <rchasin>

=) As long as you put enough relative stress on instructions, it
should be okay

Class: geofft Instance: esp.roomq
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:58:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

There was a brief gap after "instructions"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

    /*
     * NOTE: The WinNT access call returns that every directory is readable and
     * writable. We actually want to know if the write is going to fail, so we
     * try it. We don't read directories in Windows so we skip implementing that.
     */

augh

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 19:59:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

Okay giving up on hacking alpine until I find myself with more
patience. Where was I

Class: geofft Instance: splash
Time: Sat Nov 19 20:32:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

"I'm not sure I can get a database running on my laptop in time..."
"How are we going to have a SQL injection attack without SQL?
"Well, yes, that is a concern, I'll admit."

Class: geofft Instance: splash
Time: Sat Nov 19 20:38:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

I think we're about at Derpcon 3.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:12:13 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> GENERALIZED STORAGE FUNCTIONS
> why would you ever think that's a good idea

I'd actually love to have an interface for work that would accept data
and keep it in core if it's small enough, but write it to disk past a
certain threshold.  The idea being that a lot of stuff is only going to
disk because on the largest molecules we look at, it's too large to
reasonably keep in core.  But on small molecules, there's no reason for
it to ever touch a platter.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:12:39 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

There are a few places that do this manually in the core routines, but
it's too much work for me to bother with in my code.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:29:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

> keep it in core if it's small enough, but write it to disk past a
> certain threshold. 

==, see -i tmp.else. But that's not what this is, this is "access a
string or a file via the same API"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:29:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Worse than swearing, worse than calling names <geofft>

freshmeat renamed itself to freecode?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:30:36 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, a *string*?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:30:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

http://freecode.com/articles/whats-in-a-name

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:31:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

It also supports BIOs if libssl is linked in.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:33:24 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Geoff, are you reading the internet in lieu of working on something
you're supposed to be doing?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:33:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

Maybe.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Sat Nov 19 22:34:24 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

This phenomenon, unfortunately, is contagious.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 19 23:05:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

augh

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 19 23:06:14 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Stop stabbing debian, and start stabbing scripts.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 19 23:22:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

Unrelatedly, wat
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=330031

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 19 23:23:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's definitely a bug. His productivity for his day job is in
jeapordy!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:03:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

Today's conclusions:
- if you ever think "you know, it would be fun to work on timidity",
  you are wrong
- if you ever think "you know, it would be fun to work on alpine",
  you are wrong

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:04:20 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Didn't you realize the "alpine sucks" bit during the
debianbugsquashothon?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:04:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

Not sufficiently

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:08:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

In other news, huh, some guy who I recognize as a composed shows up
in Timidity's changelog as having hacked on the Mac port

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:08:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

*composer

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:12:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Is it Peter?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:13:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The same crime has a higher price to pay <geofft>

No. (Peter?)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:14:22 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Whincop

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:31:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

Oh right. No.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 20 00:44:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

http://commonsensejesus.tumblr.com/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:28:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

I'm _still_ not sure how I feel about the ability to go "hm! I want
food!" and being able to toss things from the fridge in a pan and
make that happen. It seems a bit too easy.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:29:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

maybe do pushups?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:29:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

"that seems a bit too hard"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:30:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If making food seems too easy, try making harder food. Channa masala
is not terribly difficult but takes a while.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:32:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

I have no chickpeas. (And if I did, I'd make hummus.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:34:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do you have mixed vegetables? Stir fry is awesome! Particularly
szechuan style, which requires szechuan sauce and, optionally,
peanut-butter like thing (I think your soynut butter would work).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:38:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made you turn your head the other way <geofft>

Well, all my soynut butter is currently chocolate (i.e., nut-free
Nutella.) I'm not sure how well that would work...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:38:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You probably don't want to do that. The not-butter is for texture and
slightly for flavor.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 03:39:36 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If I had the ingredients and a kitchen, I'd do the following:
 * take firm tofu, fry gently in oil
 * toss in mixed vegetables
 * pour in soy sauce, szechuan sauce, and sriracha/chilli paste|powder
to taste.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:10:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

Hm, I didn't quite realize how _small_ Cambridge was... I'm realizing
the futility of living anywhere that's as much in walking distance to
work as I am now to campus

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:12:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

this is one thing that makes the Bay Area lonelier than Boston.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:21:56 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't recommend planning your life around being within walking
distance of anything in the Bay Area

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:22:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

At least plan to get a bike, but I'm a very big fan of having a car

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:26:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

On the plus side, I hear it is never bad weather for riding a
motorcycle.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 04:26:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's not true. It rains in the winter

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 12:38:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] I've biked to work for the last two summers. It worked
decently well. (Admittedly, note "summers" there. :/ )

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:14:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Build a tent and say the world is dry <geofft>

Online, catching up with mail slowly

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:17:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

I don't mind cycling in the rain. Motorbiking might be a bit of an
issue

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:17:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

But yeah, I'm definitely planning on getting a car. It's just been
kind of nice that it's possible to walk anywhere I want (if slow)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:18:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5044eed cfq-iosched: fix alias + front merge bug <nelhage>

IUIC if you live in downtown Palo Alto, there is at least one, and
most likely exactly one, of everything you're likely to want
regularly within walking distance.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:18:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f126539 [ALSA] usb-audio: add more Yamaha devices <nelhage>

(Unless it's cafes, in which case there are like 10)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:29:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

But downtown Palo Alto to work is like two hours by foot

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:45:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

Also I want to add MIDI support to PulseAudio first

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:49:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

Huh, I didn't realize AbiWord had collaboration support

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:50:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 3b03fec powerpc: Use unlocked ioctl in nvram_64 <nelhage>

Does it ... work at al?

Class: geofft Instance: waverly
Time: Sun Nov 20 23:51:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

I have no idea!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov 21 00:50:25 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(starkish) why?

Class: geofft Instance: news.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 00:56:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

> The first thing to know about Sid Espinosa is that the energetic
> Palo Alto mayor says he sleeps only two or three hours a night – and
> never drinks coffee.

:-( why can't I do that

Class: geofft Instance: news.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 00:58:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

Also, he has a full-time job at MS?

Class: geofft Instance: news.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 01:00:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made you turn your head the other way <geofft>

“People come up to me and ask, ‘you’re the mayor of what?’” Espinosa
said. “When I tell them I’m the mayor of the city we’re in, they’ll
often say, ‘you mean, on Foursquare?’”

Class: geofft Instance: news.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 01:01:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

http://www.quora.com/Who-is-the-mayor-of-Palo-Alto

Class: geofft Instance: news.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 01:02:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 01:10:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Which part do you think you're living in <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:06:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

Couldn't slee, had a headache. Read some Chesterton. Now I really can't
sleep and I really have a headache.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:07:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But you still only have two problems?  I guess you'll need to try
harder, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:08:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

do you have any dogs at your apartment?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:08:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:08:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

kaduk: I wasn't exhaustive. I also apparently need to go become Catholic
because everything else is wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:09:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

Admittedly this is a known side effect of Chesterton

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:09:52 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ah, well, of course.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:10:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

(this happened after reading Newman, but it passed)

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:36:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

... Michael Buble is totally unlike Stars
... oh I clicked "Fly Me To The Moon Radio" by mistake.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:37:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

In other news, when I grow up, I want to be Michael Buble

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:39:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, because you're working neither in Palo Alto nor in (the right
neighborhoods of) SF, you're not going to be able to walk *everywhere*.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Nov 21 02:40:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But if you live in one of the above, you can at least walk to everything
but work.  (And visiting friends; that's what bike + Caltrain, or a car,
is for.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 21 11:33:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

Hm, Panopticlick is hanging for me

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 21 11:36:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

lecturer.q: "You're as unique as a snowflake"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov 21 11:39:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

I swear if I'm ever faculty I'm putting "Please call me Geoffrey" or
"Please call me geofft" or something on my webpage, students having
to think about this is dumb

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Nov 21 11:44:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

Subject: timidity_2.13.2-40_amd64.changes ACCEPTED into unstable

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:01:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Can I call you Ishmael?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:02:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Worse than swearing, worse than calling names <geofft>

No, but Dr. Worm is acceptable

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:09:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Every February washed away <geofft>

the crap is a monoid

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:10:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A weaker form of a group.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:10:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

e.g. string contatenation over an alphabet is a monoid, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:11:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

That would help if I can manage to remember the crap is a group for
more than a semester.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:11:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The same crime has a higher price to pay <geofft>

Also, the crap is a category

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:19:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 296f96f Net driver using virtio <nelhage>

A monoid has an identity and an associative operation, right?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:19:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 5e2a0c9 V4L/DVB (13764): [Mantis CA] SLOT: Add some debug status <nelhage>

Categories I never successfulyl grokked.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:21:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

Okay, so a monoid is apparently a group where elements don't have
inverses.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:22:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And then a groupoid is something even weaker, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:23:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A category is objects and morphisms and mumble mumble. We covered
them a little near the end of topology class when we were learning
about homotopy.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:28:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

Huh

"Very sad to say, TiMidity++ is not maintained anymore.  What happened? 
Well, Japan's real-world politics around music copyrights almost
vanished MIDI community there.  It is still (believed to be) regal to
develop TiMidity++ itself in Japan, but there are no single MIDI file to
play using it.  Comitters -all Japanese- has lost their interest a lot
for this situation."

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Nov 21 12:56:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

git-cvsimport leaves you with a branch named origin? wat

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:07:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

Sandboxing is basically a balance between "blacklist ALL the things,
and hope you don't miss any!" and "reimplement ALL the things, but
more securely this time we promise!".

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:14:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

So it occurs to me I kind of want database-like consistency
properties in my e-mail. Notably that I want my e-mail to be
replicated in several places, and I want it to be written least some
number of those places before my MX acknowledges that it's been
received, and that I want multiple MXes so that none is a single
point of failure. And I kind of want to stick at least one of these
servers in the cloud.

I can cobble this together (potentially by storing my mail in some
NoSQL db, which would be all kinds of hilarious), but this has to
exist already, right? (No, Gmail and Exchange don't count)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:16:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

Like, am I weird for wanting this out of my e-mail? (I'm aware I'm
weird for specifying it in this terminology, and also for wanting it
with the "not Gmail or Exchange" caveats)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:21:50 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

No.  I've rigged something like that that uses GMail and OfflineImap
in combination.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:22:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Um, Brian, you're not exactly normal for this space, either.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 21 13:26:00 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Well, no---in particular, I'm willing to write programs to handle my
mail.  And I would adore an nnml-compatible nosql backend.  That may
be a good way to do that...

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:02:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But did they know each other in the light <geofft>

Why is everyone getting married using scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:05:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<Priyanka is crying. The water rises. For a while, he does not speak. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

Why haven't /you/ gotten married using scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:09:30 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What.

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:47:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

Do I want to go to this "Inference of Expressive Information Security
Policies" talk?

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:50:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

I'll be there!

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:50:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

I assumed as much

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:51:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Which part do you think you're living in <geofft>

"it's relevant to your research interests, is it relevant to mine"

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:52:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

meh, sounds plausibly interesting -> there

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Mon Nov 21 15:53:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

Don't fall asleep!

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Nov 21 17:04:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Turns that body into GDP <geofft>

Why are "screen" and "monitors" different control panels?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Nov 21 17:45:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

"Your" kingdom come? "Debtors"? HERETIC.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 21 18:02:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

modprobe derp

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 21 18:03:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Seldom mentioned on the radio <geofft>

(You have to run derpmod first)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 21 18:18:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

I really wish I knew coq better

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 21 18:20:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

I also really wish I knew math better

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 19:16:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

15.0.874.106~r107270+really14.0.835.202~r103287-1

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 19:18:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Is there any reason they stick the revision number in there? As long
as they only cut at VERSION increments (which is the case for both
http://crrev.com/107270 and http://crrev.com/103287), 15.0.874.106 is
sufficiently unique.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Mon Nov 21 19:18:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

Potentially because they don't know better? File a bug?

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Nov 21 19:47:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

geofft: "Can we do type-safe OOM killing?"
ezyang: "Oh man!"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Nov 21 19:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Only in the past is what they say <geofft>

Also, cgroups are like monads.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:37:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

megastark:
http://vallettaventures.tumblr.com/post/13124883568/the-price-of-a-messy-codebase-no-latex-for-the-ipad

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:42:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

That's terrifying.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:42:44 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

That people who don't understand how a piece of software works have
somehow managed to ship an OS X client app that works as a wysiwyg
front-end editor wrapping it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:43:05 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Or that building LaTeX is an awesome adventure? I'm torn.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:44:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

I was thinking more of the latter, but now that you mention it...
yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:45:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The Good Bread <eichin>

it took them a few *days* to figure out it wasn't written in C?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:45:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

"This dream lasted a few days until we discovered that TeX, the
typesetting engine underlying LaTeX, isn’t written in C."

Um, it took days to realize this?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:45:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Seldom mentioned on the radio <geofft>

It took them a few days to find the source code.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:45:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

Meanwhile they were being agile.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:46:03 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I read that as it taking them a few days to get out of their armchairs

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:46:10 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

That is, for it not to be a thought experiment

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

They were also building an _awesome_ startup culture -- we have a
stocked beer fridge and beer on Fridays and more beer, and we have
connections with some of the top investors in a six-block radius.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:48:03 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hjelp, jeg har falt og jeg kan ikke stå opp igjen! <eichin>

(besides, there's already TeX Touch :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:48:49 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Perl makes them do bad things too. <eichin>

ie. if they'd looked around a bit, they might have
noticed that their lunch was pre-eaten by an app that just does the
LaTeX crunching in a service

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:49:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

Yes, but they can _execute_. In the modern economy, execution is more
important than competence

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:49:52 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No Mr. Bond, I expect you to upgrade. <eichin>

... more important than "noticing someone else
already executed"? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:50:00 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: IAU MPC code:932 name:John J. McCarthy Observatory, New Milford, CT <eichin>

as for the LGPL bits at the end - did tex
licensing actually leave the 70's at some point?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:50:17 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Imagine if Zuck had stopped and said, "wait, Friendster already does
this"!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:50:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

Right, they can always innovate.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:50:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

eichin: Pretty sure no

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:50:57 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Or if Angry Birds had said "gosh, I really think IBM's GORILLA.BAS
ought to be good enough'!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:51:17 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cambridge *is* The Village <eichin>

so all of their talk about rewrites are... well, gaseous :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:52:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> Or if Angry Birds had said "gosh, I really think IBM's GORILLA.BAS
> ought to be good enough'!  

Actually, I'm pretty sure that would have been amazing

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:52:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

GORILLA.BAS on an iPhone?!? Who wouldn't want that?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:53:12 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

http://gorillas.lyndir.com/demo

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:54:05 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Not bad, though the high-quality graphics cost it some nostalgia factor

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 01:57:59 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. -- slashdot, about the iPod <eichin>

heh, now that I look at what TeXpad on the mac actually does...
yeah, I can see them not having noticed, well, *anything* about tex/latex
itself :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 02:01:23 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Loathing! Un - a - dulterated loathing! <eichin>

(and wow are they tripping over themselves to
justify the app store restrictions :-)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 13:27:29 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

There's been a bunch of progress on LaTeX licensing,
actually---separating TeX (Public domain, but trademarked) from macros
under the LPPL.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 13:34:48 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: AIX = Aix Is not uniX. <eichin>

that's good, but what I was trying to remember was "did
you still need to pass TRIP/TRAP to use the TeX name" and that seems
to still be the case.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Nov 22 14:06:05 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Yes, and I believe Knuth mentions that in his will.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 22 19:32:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

awake, catching up on life

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:44:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ athrun blue-sun wizard upgrade
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/mit/scripts/wizard/bin/wizard", line 36, in <module>
    import decorator
ImportError: No module named decorator

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:44:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ athrun blue-sun wizard upgrade
  File "/mit/scripts/wizard/bin/wizard", line 121
    except prompt.UserCancel as e:
                              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:45:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Eww python2.5

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:45:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

On scripts.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:47:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

Wait you athrun something on scripts? This makes no sense

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:48:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

cats-whiskers:~/web_scripts/geofft/apartment geofft$ athrun blue-sun wizard upgrade
ERROR: Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/mit/scripts/wizard/bin/wizard", line 120, in main
    command_module.main(rest_argv, baton)
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 27, in main
    upgrade.execute(dir)
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 90, in execute
    self.preflight()
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 212, in preflight
    raise UnknownVersionError(e.real_version)
UnknownVersionError:

ERROR: The version you are attempting to upgrade from (1.0.3)
is unknown to the repository Wizard is using.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:48:33 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...what?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:49:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm...did I screw up tagging 1.0.3-scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:50:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Try again

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:55:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

cats-whiskers:~/web_scripts/geofft/apartment geofft$ athrun blue-sun wizard upgrade
ERROR: Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/mit/scripts/wizard/bin/wizard", line 120, in main
    command_module.main(rest_argv, baton)
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 27, in main
    upgrade.execute(dir)
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 90, in execute
    self.preflight()
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 221, in preflight
    self.preflightQuota()
  File "/afs/athena.mit.edu/contrib/scripts/wizard/wizard/command/upgrade.py", line 246, in preflightQuota
    raise QuotaTooLow
QuotaTooLow:

ERROR: The locker quota was too low to complete the autoinstall
upgrade.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:55:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

I got "upgrade complete", but am still getting Exceptions.AttributeError

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:55:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

"Well, fix that."

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:56:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

What does the first entry of git log say?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:56:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

commit 451773fc9102f10d049c0731736252d6081f89a5
Merge: 0c3dbac 5a03399
Author: event-horizon <event-horizon@scripts.mit.edu>
Date:   Tue Nov 22 20:54:55 2011 -0500

    Upgraded autoinstall to bluechips-1.0.4-scripts.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:57:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Hmm, that should be correct.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:57:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Oh, try killing all of the old fcgi processes on the servers

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:58:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

for-each-server -l barnowl pkill bluechips.fcgi

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:58:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

erm,

athrun scripts for-each-server -l barnowl pkill bluechips.fcgi

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:58:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

/usr/local/bin/athrun: line 21: /mit/scripts/arch/@sys/bin/for-each-server: No
such file or directory

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:58:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Not on scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:58:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:59:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

oh, and not 'barnowl' either ^_^"

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 20:59:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> /usr/local/bin/athrun
Uh, do you need to find a better Athena?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:00:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

I think that's scripts that does that

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:00:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

That doesn't seem to have helped.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:00:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But did they know each other in the light <geofft>

That said, since we have hostbased, we could create a
/usr/local/bin/for-each-server

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:00:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:01:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

geofft: Small request - if you do that, please make it do the local
server last

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:01:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I have a strong tendency to run for-each-server -l me pkill -u me

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:03:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Fixed.  The problem: for-each-server ssh'es as you, not whatever locker you
happen to be administering (event-horizon in this case)

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:04:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Seldom mentioned on the radio <geofft>

Clearly we should have a UI in pony with a list of your running
processes and little "x" buttons next to each

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:04:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

"little shotgun icons"

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Tue Nov 22 21:33:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

Hm, maybe if I delete this copy of @i(Ocean Eyes) in my Public I'll
have more quota. Why do I have a copy of @i(Ocean Eyes) in my Public,
anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:03:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

"I should show up to Squares again at some point"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:47:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

Hm, CSAIL locks tomorrow at noon. I should hold my office hours
elsewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:48:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The same crime has a higher price to pay <geofft>

Tomorrow is full of rain, so there goes the "office hours in the
amphitheater" approach.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:50:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

It does? That's inconvenient. Makes the 6.854 TA's decision to only
take psets for 10 minutes today and most of the day tomorrow kinda
ridiculous.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:53:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

I mean, you can get in with ID, so maybe the answer is that I hold
office hours and get interrupted every few minutes by people knocking

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:53:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You could also just cancel.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:54:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

Given that we have an assignment due tomorrow, that feels like poor
form.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:54:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I imagine any old ID doesn't work, right? Most of 6.854 students
aren't CSAIL-affiliated.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:54:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

Well, you can get into Stata, you just need a CSAIL member ID to get
into the upper floors

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Right, and pset drop-off is on the upper floors in the TA's office.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:15 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There are ways to get in...I know of at least one, and I don't have an
ID.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Build a tent and say the world is dry <geofft>

To CSAIL, not Stata?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, yeah, probably.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:33 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

To CSAIL.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:55:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

... you can't even get out of a staircase without an ID.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:11 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm pretty sure what I know has given me free access to ~all of D
tower. 

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Turns that body into GDP <geofft>

I guess I could just e-mail HQ and ask them to close at 5 instead and
see what happens.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But did they know each other in the light <geofft>

"D tower is different."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

Also, like half of D tower isn't CSAIL

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm pretty sure I can get to G tower from there.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:56:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Turns that body into GDP <geofft>

You can't get _between_ floors on G tower without an ID.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:57:20 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Not...all of them? I've definitely traveled between floors after
hours.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 22:57:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, G tower.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.d
Time: Tue Nov 22 23:15:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<It is not only stupid to exchange your own life for an alien one, but also a hypocritical game, because you can never really live the life of others, you can only pretend to do it, deceiving the other and yourself, since you can only life your own life. (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

Yeah, I think >4 on G is tough.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Nov 22 23:36:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

Does maildir on Tahoe-LAFS dwiw?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Tue Nov 22 23:49:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Cleans the sewers out beneath Mumbai <geofft>

ew

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Tue Nov 22 23:51:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

Also, why did you try internationalizing this? You did a half job. We
should just revert the internationalization

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Tue Nov 22 23:53:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

i,i
/* TRANSLATORS: Ha ha, good luck */

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:17:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

/* TRANSLATORS: the name of the open folder follows this in the titlebar */
extra = strlen(_("Folder: "));
if(fold_len + ss_len + extra <= avail){
    q = fold_tmp;
    strncpy(q, "Folder: ", sizeof(fold_tmp)-(q-fold_tmp));
    q += strlen(q);
    strncpy(q, as.folder_name, sizeof(fold_tmp)-(q-fold_tmp));
    q += strlen(q);
    strncpy(q, ss_string, sizeof(fold_tmp)-(q-fold_tmp));
}

you fail at i18n forever.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:20:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Seldom mentioned on the radio <geofft>

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Midi/SoftwareSynthesisHowTo

Okay, what is "ZynAddSubFX"

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:20:49 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

It's a software synthesizer for linux.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:21:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

Why does it have a dumb name?

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:21:29 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

names are hard.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:21:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think they fail at _code_.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:22:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

But we knew that already.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:22:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

And apparently they just wanted to convey that it can generate
waveforms by adding them together or subtracting from white noise.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:22:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

I have better things to do with my time than replace all of this with
some competent string library for C, right?

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:22:56 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

... subtractive synthesis is a thing.  As is additive.
Usually with subtractive you start with, say, a ramp wave or a square wave
or something.  Additive is usualy with harmonically related sine waves.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:24:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

Perhaps if I'd known that before reading their webpage the name
would've made more sense to me.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:25:37 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

If you don't know about music synthesis...

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:27:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

I mean, my interest (and the interest of the people reading that page
I linked, presumably) is just being able to play things out of
composition programs.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:27:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...then I don't know JACK Audio Connection Kit?

Class: geofft Instance: ageng.d
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:28:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

I actually don't know anything about JACK.

Class: geofft Instance: ageng.d
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:28:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

Me neither! :(

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 00:59:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

Hi Geoffrey,
The early closure only affects CSAIL Lab space not the classrooms on
the main floor.  You should not be holding office hours in CSAIL lab
space. CSAIL is a Federally audited research allocation laboratory.
 One constraint of this status is that space is to be used only for
research purposes with the exception of faculty offices which are
allocated as dual use.  Courses and RA hours are not to be in CSAIL
space.  Faculty and staff were recently reminded of this constraint
and asked to convey this information to the students in their
group,  including RAs & TAs.  If you are using CSAIL laboratory space
(including lounges, conference rooms and graduate student space) for
office hours, you are jeopardizing CSAIL's status as an allocation
laboratory and are using space against CSAIL's & MIT's policy.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 01:11:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<In the day, it is a golden house, and it gleams in the light of the sun. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

Umm.  Really?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 01:21:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 01:28:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

This could make a pretty awesome csail-related thread.

Class: geofft Instance: <3-the-internet
Time: Wed Nov 23 02:31:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

  * Applied patch from Wakko Warner <wakko@ani.animx.ml.org> to support
    .sh files. (closes: Bug#17882)

Class: geofft Instance: <3-the-internet
Time: Wed Nov 23 02:31:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...what package?

Class: geofft Instance: <3-the-internet
Time: Wed Nov 23 02:31:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: **I move away from the mic to breathe in <geofft>

file-rc.

Class: geofft Instance: <3-the-internet
Time: Wed Nov 23 02:32:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

Which is also the most special package ever. It replaces /etc/rc*.d
with /etc/runlevel.conf

Class: geofft Instance: stupid-vim-tricks
Time: Wed Nov 23 07:06:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The school books say it can't be here again <geofft>

If I stick #include <repo/fall11/grades/names.txt> at the top of my
plain-text file of usernames of folks who have turned in homework,
then autocompletion (C-x C-i) works on usernames

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 07:14:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made you turn your head the other way <geofft>

ttants: customized websites, costumized websites

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Nov 23 08:57:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

Oh xdg, nobody cares about you

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 09:06:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

[stark]
Wow, I hadn't heard that.  
Certainly 6.858 is not the only class which holds office hours in
CSAIL space, even this term (see, e.g. 6.006).

If the office hours are in the lounge, just keep an eye on the
elevator lobby and let people in.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:20:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zoom the camera out and see the lie <geofft>

This doesn't look like a homework ... oh look it's my Google NDA, I
bet I shouldn't grade this, also how'd it end up in this pile

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:21:32 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Give it a C-!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:22:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

"the grades are boolean"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:22:35 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Quantum superposition of #f and #t, then.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:23:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

This doesn't look like a homework ... it's ... a CD inside an ad-hoc
CD cover made of a SIPB midway handout?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:23:26 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>This doesn't look like a homework

Why are you turning into Clippy?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:24:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

a blank CD-RW?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:24:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Stays behind as colors celebrate <geofft>

I vaguely remember going "Hm, I bet I want to take a blank CD-RW from
SIPB and bring it home" but I cannot remember why

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:25:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It is homework, it's a reminder for #f, incomplete.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:27:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

This doesn't look like a homework... breadcrumbs? What is up with my
backpack

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:27:28 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Does the trail lead somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 23 10:41:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The prisons make you wonder where it went <geofft>

-> class

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:14:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

(stark) I bet replying with "So, may I only play research-related
songs on the piano in the reading room" would be a bad idea

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:35:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: **I move away from the mic to breathe in <geofft>

That is an excellent slide

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:36:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Which part do you think you're living in <geofft>

(it's a picture of a monitor with seven postits filled with passwords)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:35:35 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

lol4u, really?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:38:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

I'm amused that there's an account labeled "SQL"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:42:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

... write your name on your homework, didn't we cover this in third grade

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:46:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Turns that body into GDP <geofft>

http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 11:51:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

..."Hobbit" and "Ninja" are possible name sets

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Nov 23 12:12:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: **I move away from the mic to breathe in <geofft>

https://github.com/hyde/typogrify/

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Nov 23 12:12:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

"This application provides a set of custom filters for the Django
template system which automatically apply various transformations to
plain text in order to yield typographically-improved HTML."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858.grading
Time: Wed Nov 23 12:16:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

I don't think this class is called 6.033, the CSS notwithstanding

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed Nov 23 14:25:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Using you to fall back down again <geofft>

init=/bin/kexec

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed Nov 23 14:25:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...what are you doing?!

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed Nov 23 14:25:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 523e88f [CPUFREQ] Clean up P4 centrino detection. Add a new "struct cpu_id" for better handling of different Pentium M steppings / revisions. <nelhage>

init=/usr/bin/kvm

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed Nov 23 14:26:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"We have to go deeper!"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 23 15:02:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Some stay dry and others feel the pain <geofft>

-> 32

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 18:31:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

haaaaaaaaaaate

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 18:43:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

okay I'm okay with staying 1.5 hours late at office hours on the day
an assignment is due to track down a stupid bug. I'm not okay if that
bug is in _our code_ instead of a student's, and I'm really not okay
if the cause is that nc is being dumb

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 23 19:57:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: History quickly crashing through your veins <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 23 22:08:44 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> nc being dumb
Haha, like larvnet?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Nov 24 13:38:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Turns that body into GDP <geofft>

Yeah, I was tempted to replace it with socat, but that wasn't the fastest
fix

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 16:22:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Build a tent and say the world is dry <geofft>

I ate leftover turkey and stuffing two days ago, and am now eating
leftover pork... I feel like a Thanksgiving hipster

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 16:22:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

(insert "ate it before it was cool" joke here)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 16:23:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

I hope you didn't burn your tongue!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Thu Nov 24 17:13:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

I should really deal with getting more disk space

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Thu Nov 24 17:13:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

That said, I thought I had a source checkout of Xen already somewhere...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Thu Nov 24 19:14:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

Did you just e-mail me your VM image inside a .rar???

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Thu Nov 24 19:21:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: It's the fear your leaders call control <geofft>

Sigh, telling Comcast "we want the cheapest internet-only plan and no
cable" was a mistake

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Thu Nov 24 19:21:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

200 MB of package updates is going to be painful

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:37:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

Pro: Mmm chicken
Con: okay what do I do with this defrosted chicken sitting on the counter

Class: geofft Instance: dinner
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:37:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Stays behind as colors celebrate <geofft>

(probably "cook it and put it in the fridge")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:37:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

*sigh* I wish I had some computer with a DVI or HDMI output so I
could use this TV to watch things

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:40:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Only in the past is what they say <geofft>

Unless anyone knows how I can play things using a PS2, PS3, or Xbox
off either YouTube or sketchy pirated downloads on a friend's server?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:40:28 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Have you ever gotten sick of hearing AT&T take credit for things that
they didn't invent?  You will. <eichin>

PS3 will talk to a DLNA server...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:40:53 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me! <eichin>

(actually, won't the web browser just do youtube?
it'll do ustream...)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:41:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

Can I tell mplayer to output over DLNA? I'm gonna guess the PS3 won't do sshfs.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:42:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

"This would be easier if my game console spoke X"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:42:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Infection - Obsession - Challenge - Chase Scene - Denoument <eichin>

there's some linux DLNA server that will use ffmpeg to transcode...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:43:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

Is this yak tractably shavable?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:50:07 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The queen did not ask the [ISS] crew any direct questions, but was heard to say "fascinating" several times... <eichin>

well, when I tried it it was mostly "install a
ubuntu package, browse to it from the ps3, decide that my wireless net
was too slow"...

Class: geofft Instance: duckduckgo
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:53:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made you turn your head the other way <geofft>

Okay, _usually_ your fancy boxes are clever, but I believe your
WikiHow webscraping is confused...

Marinate Chicken (How-to)

Step 1. Ask him again to stop bugging you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:54:43 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There's always something going out of business in Central Square.--rita@eff.org <eichin>

ah, mediatomb

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

Debian doesn't have that, but has minidlna?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Nov 24 23:57:02 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Scotty:  Aye, Captain, I can give you all the power you want, no problem. <eichin>

ah, ubuntu does.

Class: geofft Instance: mailman
Time: Fri Nov 25 00:31:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

Okay, ESP's is the fastest Mailman I've interacted with to date

Class: geofft Instance: mailman
Time: Fri Nov 25 00:33:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Does it read your message from your mind before you send it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 25 01:29:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Worse than swearing, worse than calling names <geofft>

Oooh, Virgin came out with a new phone with a slide-out keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Nov 25 02:01:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Build a tent and say the world is dry <geofft>

The piece of paper in front of Sepal that starts out with big letters
saying "In the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful"
amuses me.

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 04:13:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

hm, I have a headache and can't get to sleep. I wonder if it's caffeine
withdrawal? I know, I'll drink a cup of coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 04:14:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes us happy living in a gate <geofft>

Now I still have a headache and _definitely_ can't get to sleep

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 04:36:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

Huh, no more headache. Seriously??

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 06:10:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

Yeah, conclusions:
1. I am addicted to caffeine
2. fml

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 10:11:37 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 2d0bc3a [PATCH] USB: retry some descriptor fetches <nelhage>

3. Coffee is delicious

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 10:14:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: * <lizdenys>

s/Coffee/Good coffee/ and I'll agree.

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 18:55:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

Liz, I gave up on finding good coffee and bought the Starbucks Christmas
blend. You may now judge me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Nov 25 19:41:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Across the world and back it's all the same <geofft>

EOVERWHELMED

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:17:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The judge and jury swear it's not the face <geofft>

*level up*

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:21:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Angels cry and shake their heads in shame <geofft>

Although this !ravsauce marinade doesn't _quite_ go well with tomato
sauce... I guess I could have predicted that one

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:22:07 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, that's an expected clash.

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp.d
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:22:31 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Also, the !ravsauce marinade should probably have lots more sesame oil
than a standard ravsauce would.

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:25:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

Soy sauce goes in everything though! (Well, maybe not baked goods)

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:26:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

+icecream

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:26:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

/me shivers

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:26:40 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Pretty sure I've had soy sauce ice cream.

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:27:39 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

http://www.japantrends.com/soy-sauce-for-ice-cream-from-yamato/

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:27:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: mandatory-dining-refugee-reeducation-camp
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:28:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

......... *mind broken*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:34:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

So, is the hotel where Google put me up going to e-mail me every two
weeks about awesome deals? That seems useless...

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:36:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: More than marching more than passing law <geofft>

{PO12.mail.mit.edu:993/imap/notls/ssl/user="geofft"}

wait, notlds?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:36:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Every February washed away <geofft>

er, notls

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Nov 25 20:45:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: No one wants to hear about it now <geofft>

1347 TCP and UDP with Bigger Addresses (TUBA), A Simple Proposal for
     Internet Addressing and Routing. R. Callon. June 1992. (Format:
     TXT=26563, PS=42398, PDF=22398 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL)

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:00:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Finding good coffee is easy. All Whole Foods' carry good,
locally-sourced coffee

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:01:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Just don't buy their Allegra stuff or whatever they call it)

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:02:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A baby born will die before the sin <geofft>

I haven't been to Whole Foods in weeks :(

Class: geofft Instance: mistake
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:03:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: But test scores are how much the parents make <geofft>

Also, having had a prescription for Allegra, I'm not convinced it
would make good coffee

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:27:37 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

It's weird, but it's not clear that it was a worse idea
than the ipv6 we ended up with.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:57:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Wish real hard it goes away somehow <geofft>

I wonder how much it is worth me keeping this apartment (without
roommates) in January ... I'm trying to figure out if I want to
negotiate with my landlord for paying more than my share but less
than the complete rent of the apartment

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Nov 25 21:57:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The school books say it can't be here again <geofft>

I could run hackathons in my apartment all the time!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Nov 25 22:25:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Makes the best of friends begin to fight <geofft>

So how do I patch my kernel?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Nov 25 22:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

Specifically, is patching the source package like any other Debian
package the right answer? I seem to recall it used to not be

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Nov 25 22:27:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have yet to figure this out myself. I would be interested in the
answer to this as well.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Nov 25 22:53:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Which part do you think you're living in <geofft>

Why is my couch shaking?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Nov 25 22:56:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Which part do you think you're living in <geofft>

It looks like kernel-package is not wrong, but is undermaintained.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

I, uh, think you're using != when you mean to be using strcmp?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Every February washed away <geofft>

Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... aren't you supposed to be running screaming already?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The school books say it can't be here again <geofft>

                if(env && env->subject && env->subject[0]){
                    char *q = NULL;

                    snprintf(buftmp, sizeof(buftmp), "%.75s", env->subject);
                    buftmp[sizeof(buftmp)-1] = '\0';
                    q = (char *) rfc1522_decode_to_utf8((unsigned char *)tmp_20k_buf,
                                                        SIZEOF_20KBUF, buftmp);
                    if(q != env->subject){
                        snprintf(savedsstring, sizeof(savedsstring), "%.70s", q);
                        savedsstring[sizeof(savedsstring)-1] = '\0';
                    }

                    snprintf(sstring, sizeof(sstring), "%s", q);
                    sstring[sizeof(sstring)-1] = '\0';
                }

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Raised your neighborhood insurance rates <geofft>

Does that look funny to anyone else?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:30:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The bell curve blames the baby's DNA <geofft>

(static buffers aside)

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:32:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Just about every time I see string code in C I feel a little queasy.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:38:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Say it publicly and you're insane <geofft>

But, like, unless rfc1522_decode_to_utf8 secretly interns strings (I
just checked, it doesn't) does that code path ever get called?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Nov 25 23:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Made me cross the street the other day <geofft>

Okay my mind has officially melted. I meant to type 'git blame' and
typed 'hg log'.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:05:06 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Nooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:28:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

I DO NOT THINK YOU GUYS KNOW HOW TO MANIPULATE STRINGS IN C

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:29:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

geofft, haven't you stabbed your eyes out already

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:29:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Only in the past is what they say <geofft>

Yeah, I should time out and go work on my thesis at some point

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:37:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

Wait, what? I can have a mail subject line that begins with
"Re[foo]  :" and it'll interpret that as equivalent to "Re:"?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:38:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Worse than swearing, worse than calling names <geofft>

What is the point of that

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:38:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Re[3]:
Re[4]:

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:39:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

People do that?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:39:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forecast to be falling yesterday <geofft>

And you're supposed to reply with a regular "Re:" instead of "Re[n+1]"?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:39:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:39:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Flipping cars in France the other night <geofft>

What does it mean?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:40:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Er, I would have expected an Re[n+1]:, myself.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:40:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think it's supposed to prevent "Re: Re: Re: ...".

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:41:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

... But you fix that just by saying "Re:"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:41:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Remake how we got to where we are <geofft>

Also, I really need a historical repo for alpine

Class: geofft Instance: startups
Time: Sat Nov 26 00:48:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Only in the past is what they say <geofft>

This just sounds like the worst idea ever
http://education.sys-con.com/node/1943485

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 01:53:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dirty secrets of economy <geofft>

int
process_cmd(struct pine *state, MAILSTREAM *stream, MSGNO_S *msgmap,
            int command, CmdWhere in_index, int *force_mailchk)
{
    int           question_line, a_changed, flags = 0, ret, j;
    int           notrealinbox;
    long          new_msgno, del_count, old_msgno, i;
    long          start;
    char         *newfolder, prompt[MAX_SCREEN_COLS+1];
    CONTEXT_S    *tc;
    MESSAGECACHE *mc;
#if     defined(DOS) && !defined(_WINDOWS)
    extern long coreleft();
#endif


*stab*

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Nov 26 02:54:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Only in the past is what they say <geofft>

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/idkjdjficifbfjjkdkiimioljbloddpl

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Nov 26 02:55:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Hahahahahahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Nov 26 02:58:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Also ridiculous-looking,

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gnmngbknombiopoggilgiebonllnndhp

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Nov 26 02:59:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lifts the ark of paradise in sin <geofft>

That's pretty impressive.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Nov 26 02:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, new zsig.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 03:11:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I, uh, okay, that works!

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 03:12:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

https://github.com/geofft/alpine/commit/a70836a7

lets you use select on "current subject" and have it strip things
like "Re:", so that if you do that you see the entire thread, instead
of the entire thread except for the first message.

It has this side-effect of all-capsing the subject in the search
prompt... but apparently this is case-insensitive, so, uh, sure!

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 03:14:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: "god dammit, I brain-bleached myself." - ismith <pbaranay>

Why are you doing this?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Nov 26 03:15:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Because it annoys me every time I try to use "current subject" and it
doesn't do what I want

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:42:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Actually, I want a thing that replaces "download" in my browser with
"copy URL to clipboard", so I can go wget it somewhere useful

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:42:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Because I basically never want to download files on my desktop

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:46:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Mumble not the same browsing context mumble. You could just ask your
browser to prompt you each time.

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:49:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

/mit/geofft/bin/xpath

tyger:~ geofft$ add geofft
tyger:~ geofft$ xpath http://web.mit.edu/ '//li[@class="main_link"]//@href'
http://web.mit.edu/aboutmit
http://web.mit.edu/admissions/
http://web.mit.edu/education
http://web.mit.edu/research/
http://web.mit.edu/community/
http://web.mit.edu/life
http://web.mit.edu/initiatives/
http://web.mit.edu/impact/
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:49:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Shouldn't this tool exist already? but anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:49:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

For all your command-line web-scraping needs.

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:50:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There is already a /usr/bin/xpath in libxml-xpath-perl

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:50:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It does about 75% of what you would ever want /usr/bin/xpath to do

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:51:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oooh.

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:51:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... is that a good 75% or a bad 75%?

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:52:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, you can pipe stuff in and apply xpath expressions to it, but the
output format is pretty iffy

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:57:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

It seems to be hanging trying to download a DTD.

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:57:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I am not impressed

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 04:59:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

ahahahaha

BUGS
       The author of this man page is not very fluant in english. 

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 05:00:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I've probably never fed it a doc with a DTD before

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 05:00:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

There's a reason I'm using lxml.html in ~/bin/xpath

Class: geofft Instance: apropos-of-nothing
Time: Sat Nov 26 05:01:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

XML is a cool idea, but it's only useful if you can be ridiculously
Postel-liberal about it, and none of the tools are

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:12:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Someone wants to get a file larger than e-mail-attachment-size to me.
Due to its questionable copyright status he doesn't want to post it
publicly, even for a little bit. He doesn't have AFS. Is there any
clever thing I can do regarding MIT infrastructure that's more
convenient than setting up an ftpd?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:13:28 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

What is his physical location/

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:13:30 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:13:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Most people would use dropbox.
send multiple emails or yousendit.com or whatnot.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:15:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

kcr: I dunno, I'm going to guess "not Boston". (hmh@debian)

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:16:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

party-safe trained
potty-safe trained

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:17:54 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I read about http://filetea.me a while ago. Though it relies on nutty
newish browser features.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:19:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, can't you put it in a web-accessible directory with either
directory-index-page generation off or a blank index.html, and just
not link it anywhere?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:20:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't think I want to use a third-party exchanger.

I guess I could ask if he wants to do that

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:20:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Geoffrey is trying to get the file, not to transmit it.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:21:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I _think_ I have good solutions for transmitting these. (I'm willing
to do that, for instance; I can also trivially put basic auth in
front of it)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:22:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, yeah, brainfart.

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:28:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

i,i http://xkcd.com/949/

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:29:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:32:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

drop.io *was* great at this.

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:32:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

but, well.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:44:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wonder how to balance the cost of context switches against lack of focus.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sat Nov 26 18:58:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

*headdesk*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Nov 26 19:37:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Maybe it needs extra quotes?" -andersk

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Nov 26 19:54:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Cute. Eclipse is packaged by "Debian Orbital Alignment Team"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Nov 26 21:33:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh right, I have a cluedump Tuesday, hm

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Sat Nov 26 21:47:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, Muse and Yael Naim are nothing like each other, you're
confused... oh, why are you on QuickMix?

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Sat Nov 26 21:47:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

No, it's not. Huh

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:07:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

So... why are singletons awesome and globals terrible?

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:07:49 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Maybe because what I want to do doesn't seem easily/safely
accomplished with globals?

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:08:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Why do singletons make things safer?

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:08:09 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Because you can test singletons

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:08:15 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Singletons are objects, meaning that they self-manage their existence,
are on-demand, and provide methods.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:08:25 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Because you can set the relevant parts of the singleton to be private.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:08:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

They are still questionable because they represent global
mutable state. But if you are going to have global mutable
state you should at least hide the representation in
something with testable behavior.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:09:34 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

That's funny, you think we're actually going to write tests for this.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:10:01 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

(I'm currently working with 1500 lines of poorly-documented, untested
code.)

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:10:31 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Don't let my taste in software engineering get in the way
of your academic codebase.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:11:36 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

No, I'm with you.  I'd love to write tests for all this code.  It's
just not going to happen, given (a) the amount of time we have, (b)
the people who wrote this code, and (c) the people who I am going to
be maintaining the code with.  We'll write some regression tests,
sure, but I doubt any unit testing will get done.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:13:03 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Hmm, now I'm thinking about volunteering myself to write tests for our
team.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:13:26 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uhm.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:14:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Reserve the CSAIL reading room for a carol-singing party

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:14:28 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The correct amount of testing for code you plan to disown
in a matter of weeks is difficult to estimate.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:15:09 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Please have a carol-singing party. I don't really care where.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:15:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...or I could have one, although it would have to be before the 15th.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:15:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"If you're advocating for it, it's presumably before the 15th in
either case"

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:16:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I mean, short of my apartment and the Chapel, I'm not sure where else
to find a piano?

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:16:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

And singing in my apartment annoys the neighbors.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:16:41 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

My apt could be good.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:17:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

if kcr will be present, or will show me how to set up the keyboard
right

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:17:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

ET could work too.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:17:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

. o O { A Very Dubstep Christmas with Karl Ramm }

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:18:13 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:18:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

O come, *WUB* ye faith*WUB*, joyful *WUB* triumph*WUB*

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:19:06 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That's not MC Ramm?

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:19:16 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

no.

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:20:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <lapentab>

I was... looking for christmas music dubstep earlier...

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:20:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, we need to make this album exist. Scratch the carol-singing party

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:20:52 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm surprised TSO hasn't put that one out

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:21:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... there are 43 Google results for "A Very Dubstep Christmas"

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:24:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Please excuse me while I stop laughing

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:25:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <lapentab>

http://tinyurl.com/c9osoc3

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sat Nov 26 23:29:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay I can't concentrate with this. Let's go find some Rutter or
Mormon Tabernacle Choir or something

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-ideas
Time: Sun Nov 27 00:53:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<And there is a wardrobe. Standing in that wardrobe is a twelve-year-old girl. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

[stark] Some of the lecture halls (4-370, 2-190?) have pianos you can
get the keys from from the Music department.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Sun Nov 27 02:06:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wish my brain were bigger.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:22:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Spilled a couple of drops of water in a candle. Not sure how to get
it out... the water sinks under the melted wax

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:22:50 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A crowd of people, and at the center, a popular misconception.
 <rnjacobs>

Don't need to.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:24:22 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Expensive cameras have penetrating flash lights.
 <rnjacobs>

It won't, um, wick into the wick because of the wax will keep it out.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:25:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

but it annoys me :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:28:46 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Hypodermic syringe and needle" :p

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:29:36 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Alternatively, put it out and pour out all the wax. Ideally into a big glass
of water for the neat effect.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:30:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yeah, I noticed interesting things when the water drop fell in

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:59:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, I have things to do tomorrow, probably worth sleeping at least
a bit now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 03:59:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I ... really wish I had a good way to make me sleepy _for a bit_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 04:00:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Drugs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 04:01:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Well, there's melatonin, which works and is totally reasonable but
makes me sleep 8 hours. I guess I could see what Benadryl does, if I
wanted to go that route.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 04:02:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Let's try the "warm glass of milk" approach

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 04:05:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Inject turky into your aorta

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Nov 27 05:01:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ugh, I seriously need to find lighter bedtime reading choices than
Chesterton

Class: geofft Instance: kkb
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:02:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11412/11686825.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: kkb
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:06:22 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "If you were a cable channel, you couldn't broadcast until after 11pm." <pquimby>

Shouldn't have that have gone to -c unzhangc ?

Class: geofft Instance: kkb
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: asa,i,i
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:14:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"We are happy to announce that we've given your student group access
to the Bag of Holding in W20-437..."

Class: geofft Instance: asa,i,i
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:14:40 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

Oh great! Somewhere to put my extra bag of holding.

Class: geofft Instance: asa,i,i
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:15:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"The following 30 student groups are now in W20-441. Now you're
thinking with portals."

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:55:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

No we don't have a port of alpine to Android are you insane

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sun Nov 27 15:55:53 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: kkb
Time: Sun Nov 27 16:15:27 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Oh. ==Paul. (Sorry, but I feel like being able to count all the things
I can eat on my fingers is ... pretty bad.)

Class: geofft Instance: kkb
Time: Sun Nov 27 16:16:13 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

(stark)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Nov 27 18:09:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

ZipPlane

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Nov 27 18:10:25 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: dreadful accidents, regrettable misunderstandings, hugely disproportionate retaliations <eichin>

that's netjets.com :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Nov 27 18:10:42 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: SystemLibraryDTC <eichin>

"wings when you need them"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Nov 27 18:11:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The airplane rental business is actually better suited to quick trips
than the car rental business, because you only get charged for the
engine-running time.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Nov 27 18:11:36 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's a one time thing.  It just happens alot. <eichin>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Jets
but there are refinements

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:13:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

So whatever happened to the plan to convert scripts to running on ESX?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:14:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I guess once I stopped working for VMware nobody else cared?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:08 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...what.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:20 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What's the benefit of ESX?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's less crappy than Xen?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:40 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

What does Xen not let you do?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"not suck"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:19:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How much less crappy? I thought ESX wasn't paravirt.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:20:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

It has paravirt drivers

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:20:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You get >=90% of the performance benefit of paravirt from
paravirtualizing disk/network/handful of other I/O devices

Class: geofft Instance: cac.q
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:42:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Because Walker Memorial (Morss Hall) may be retooled by the
Institute..."

Class: geofft Instance: cac.q
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:43:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

ttants: retooled by the Institute, tool of the Institute

Class: geofft Instance: sororities
Time: Sun Nov 27 19:56:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

What the crap is going on in W20-491

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 20:05:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I still want uamp3 to exist

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Nov 27 20:06:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Convince a keen underclassman to set it up!

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sun Nov 27 20:49:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... wayrttd

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sun Nov 27 20:50:47 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I just want to know. I was curious.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Nov 27 22:27:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://twitter.com/#!/thesearesongs/statuses/140994662210084865

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Nov 27 22:27:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: d7523f5 Staging: rt3070: remove dead WDS_SUPPORT code <nelhage>

what

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Nov 27 22:29:59 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

++

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Nov 27 22:30:42 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do we know them?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Nov 27 22:31:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

As far as I know, some dude on twitter is just making a bunch of
"Geoff" puns regarding some other dude on twitter named "Geoff"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Nov 27 23:02:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... am I on Finboard?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Nov 27 23:02:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm apparently liaison to some groups according to the website, but
I'm not on finboard@. I am so confused

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Nov 27 23:06:03 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Finboard: a disaster *at least* since I showed up.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Nov 27 23:06:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"So it's your fault, then?"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:10:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, I should implement the "You've typed 'I've attached', but haven't
attached anything" thing for alpine. Also Mail Goggles

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:10:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Alternatively, I could give up and learn mutt

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:10:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

But I feel like that'll work about as well as the time I tried to
give up and learn emacs

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:17:04 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I got stuck on mutt using the down arrow to do next message, instead
of next line, or some such.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:17:39 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Why are you using arrow keys?"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Nov 28 00:18:01 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It works in alpine... And sometimes thunderdbird.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 02:40:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

mumble grumble kernel API instability

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:01:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

mumble grumble EXPORT_SYMBOL

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:04:21 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

i,i kallsyms

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:04:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, cool, kallsyms_lookup_name is EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL'd. -> evil

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:14:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait the crap can I not find kallsyms_lookup_name

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:16:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also what is this doing here.
commit 75a66614db21007bcc8c37f9c5d5b922981387b9
Author: Anders Kaseorg <andersk@mit.edu>
Date:   Fri Dec 5 19:03:58 2008 -0500

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:17:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

… What do you think?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:17:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

It looks like kallsyms_lookup_name wasn't actually exported until
commit f60d24d2ad04977b0bd9e3eb35dba2d2fa569af9
Author: Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue Nov 10 10:17:07 2009 +0100

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:18:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I guess I can go use your kallsyms_on_each_symbol thing.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:19:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

(I'm not sure whether to be more impressed that you got that
EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL'd, or that this Frederic dude got
kallsyms_lookup_name EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL'd under the guise of
"hw-breakpoints: Fix broken hw-breakpoint sample module".)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:22:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

No, no kallsyms_on_each_symbol in this kernel, either. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:22:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Reading /proc/kallsyms in init_module time wooooo

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:22:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, is there some convenient helper function I can steal from Ksplice
to do this?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:23:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

We use System.map.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:24:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, right, and just run-pre matching to make sure you got it right?
Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:24:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

We should, but we don’t yet; we just check that System.map has the
right value of printk.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:24:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: linux.d
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:25:26 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why isn't repository URL a link?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:28:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, but isn't even run-pre matching insufficient? If I have two
functions do_thing_one() and do_thing_two(), and they happen to be
implemented exactly the same but are called in different contexts
(like they assign their first argument to the second), and you want
to patch one of them, and your running kernel has reordered the two
functions in memory compared to the kernel you built against but is
otherwise the same, run-pre matching won't tell, will it?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:28:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Don't you actually need to sketch on kallsyms for safety?
I guess that's a profoundly unlikely scenario.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:30:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

We run-pre match the entire compilation unit.  Presumably there are
other functions that call do_thing_one() and do_thing_two() (else
they would have been optimized away), and so we can tell which is
which by looking at the callers.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:30:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

In the rare event that we still end up with multiple matching
candidates, we abort.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:32:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"The entire compilation unit"? If these functions are EXPORT_SYMBOL'd
or even just non-static, doesn't that boil down to "the entire kernel"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:33:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

In those cases, we know that the kallsyms value will be unambiguously
correct.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:34:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, I thought you said you got the value from System.map and not
kallsyms

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:35:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

But I should get back to what I was actually doing.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:36:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

We get a small set of symbols from System.map that we need in order
to bootstrap Ksplice itself.  (Those are the only symbols that we
should run-pre match but don’t.)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:37:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, okay. So you do have a nice convenient function I can steal to
sketch values out of /proc/kallsyms?

... Hm, I bet I don't want to ask what .ksplice_extract is, do I, but
I bet that implies the answer is "No, it's not convenient"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:38:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yeah, no.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:39:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Can I copy this out of some issue of Phrack?"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:39:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Probably.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:42:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:42:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Can I copy this out of OpenAFS?"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Also, is it a bad sign that my list of people who do sketchy things
to the Linux kernel is, in order, Ksplice, Phrack, and OpenAFS?"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 03:46:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I have no idea what's going on in OpenAFS

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 04:14:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

KERNEL
Y U NO GIVE ME OOPS

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 28 05:57:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

my brain is too awake

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 10:21:27 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        I have no idea what's going on in OpenAFS

what do you want to know?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 10:37:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

how you bootstrap looking up kallsyms_lookup_addr

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 10:40:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 7b2f228 JFS: Don't clobber wait_queue_head while there are waitors on it <nelhage>

http://jon.oberheide.org/blog/2011/09/08/tool-releases-ksymhunter-and-kstructhunter/

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Nov 28 10:42:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

well that works.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Nov 28 11:14:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... why are there no cars on the roads?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Nov 28 11:14:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

because it's the zombie apocalypse

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Nov 28 11:15:51 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Shuttlecraft, a phaser and a Gund. <eichin>

google actually thinks there's congestion in cambridge...
(I can hear the usual morning traffic out here in concord...)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 28 11:42:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Can we just get rid of users?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 28 12:00:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Can we just get rid of China?"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Nov 28 11:58:51 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

"Or perhaps just their keyboards?"

Class: geofft Instance: koch.cafe
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:10:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... What is theplaz doing?

Class: geofft Instance: koch.cafe
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:14:51 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

?

Class: geofft Instance: koch.cafe
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:18:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

He's surrounded by three people with laptop and one person with a
notebook and... discoursing. I think that's the best verb I can come
up with

Class: geofft Instance: coq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:37:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I want readline :(

Class: geofft Instance: coq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:37:20 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

ledit coq

Class: geofft Instance: coq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:37:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

That doesn't help with tab-completing identifiers.

Class: geofft Instance: csail.spamq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:38:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Subject: Telepathy - I think this is important for science -  please helptelepathic  Vinko

Class: geofft Instance: csail.spamq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:40:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Huh, there are no links or attachments or <script> tags or anything
in this e-mail. I think this person is _actually crazy_.

Class: geofft Instance: csail.spamq
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:46:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

oh, I got that one a while back.  I believe he's spamming everyone in
the csail directory.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:47:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I love how "ASCII art" includes Unicode

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:48:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wonder at what point we'll define it to include emoji

Class: geofft Instance: else.2
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:49:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I should learn Java

Class: geofft Instance: else.2
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:49:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ef4a47d Blackfin arch: Export strcpy - occasionally get module link failures otherwise <nelhage>

Meh

Class: geofft Instance: else.2
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:50:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: else.2
Time: Mon Nov 28 13:50:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not very hard to pick up. The hardest part is finding all the
things you *can't* do.

Class: geofft Instance: koch.cafe
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:18:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

He's now... discoursing... about ai-class and Piazza? I am so confused

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:45:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think I will just go hide in theoryland for a while

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:45:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

"I hear there's another PL seminar today"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:46:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wasn't really being quite so literal, but, hm. "As long as it's not
also a systems-security seminar"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:46:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

"Sorry, most of the PL community has prostituted themselves to security these
days"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c.d
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:46:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm still confused about what last week's was about.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c.d
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:47:17 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

"I can't tell you, I got distracted by Scripts"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c.d
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:48:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Does it basically boil down to, hey, if we stick a bunch of weirdo
type annotations on top of C that the compiler ignores, we get an
occasionally-strongly-typed C?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:48:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:48:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Did you just ask for Linux Mint 12 to be included in Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c.d
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:48:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Well, the key properties they care about are dataflow properties.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:48:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Do you ... wat ... type error

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:49:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Link to archive? Since I assume this was debian-devel.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:49:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/1322506616.5597.533.camel@s1499.it.kth.se

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:50:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"Sorry, no match found"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:50:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Works in gmane.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:50:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://mid.gmane.org/1322506616.5597.533.camel@s1499.it.kth.se

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:51:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's not nearly as bad as you made out.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:53:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm just really confused at what this entails. If you want Debian
packages with Linux Mint's design decisions... I think that's called
Linux Mint

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:53:44 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't use Mint, but one of my friends recently installed that and
said they somehow made gnome3 not suck.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:56:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I like gnome-shell as distributed by Debian, but apparently I'm weird
and wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:57:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's the same one I see in Fedora. But I don't like it because
workspaces.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:58:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

<3 Allison Randal

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 14:58:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

(she chimed in with a totally reasonable response)

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:30:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The seminar today sounded kinda cool.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:30:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, is this Adam's Ur/web seminar? Maybe I should go, actually

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:31:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Ooh, when is that?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:31:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Except... it was half an hour ago?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:31:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:31:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I suppose could still make it. I _guess_ you can still make it

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:32:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

Wait, where is this?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:32:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

No, it's 4PM

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:32:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:14:14 -0500
From: Raluca Ada Popa <ralucap@MIT.EDU>
To: systems-security@lists.csail.mit.edu
Subject: [Security-seminar] Reminder, 3pm, Prof. Adam Chlipala

Adam will talk about "Web Security via Types and Theorem-Proving in
the Ur/Web Programming Language". Details are below.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm apparently actually talking about the systems-security seminar
and not the PL one

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

Why am I not on this list. Damit

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

What room?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

575.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

er, 32-G575

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh, that email sounds totally reasonable. It's not that different
from "Please carry Unity in Debian", right? Which... sounds
reasonable to me?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:33:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> there

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:48:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yay, have fun. (Hope you had fun...? :/) 

Class: geofft Instance: Ur/web
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:50:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, the SQL syntax for what amounts to types is either awesome or
*twitch*

Class: geofft Instance: Ur/web
Time: Mon Nov 28 15:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

One of these days when I feel like poking more things with a security
stick, I'd like to poke at Ur/web... I am vaguely skeptical :)

Class: geofft Instance: Ur/web
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:00:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

Ur/web is in fact, Pretty Cool.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:23:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

ugh, I wish I could get away with sleeping -10 hours a day

Class: geofft Instance: sky
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:27:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Hey everyone, the real world just turned HDR"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:32:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I still don't really understand the difference between a theorem and
a definition

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:33:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I guess if I have a theorem foo : nat, that I prove by exhibiting the
existence of 3, it's not really willing to tell me that foo + 3 = 7

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:34:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, no, that's true if I do that for a definition, too

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:35:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

They're actually the same thing, modulo curry howard

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:35:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I realize that, I'm just trying to find my way around coq's syntax

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:35:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Is the only thing that you can't say Theorem foo : nat := 3, but you
can say Definition foo : nat := 3?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:36:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Theorems are opaque and Definitions are transparent by default (but I
think you can change that either way).

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:36:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

3 is not a valid proof term.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:37:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

That's the difference.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:37:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Sure it is.
Theorem foo : nat.
  exact 3.
Qed.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:37:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

Oh, uh, Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:38:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Coq < Definition florp : nat. constructor. Qed.

Coq < Print florp.
florp = 0
     : nat

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:38:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

3 is a perfectly good proof that nat. So is 0.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:39:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

"You know, when I registered for this class I was excited about
proving theorems about the natural numbers... now I'm so confused
that I'm just proving natural numbers themselves."

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:41:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

I guess what I'm trying to say is that proofs of terms in Set are not really
interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:42:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

Set --> Prop --> Type

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:44:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

(if I've got this ordering correct...)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:44:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

So at the moment I'm trying to figure out what an object of type
"exists x, foo x" looks like. And whether an object of that type is
any different Coq-syntax-wise from a theorem of that type

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:46:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

Notice that exists x, foo x : Prop

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:46:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Neither Set nor Prop contains the other.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:46:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

OK, that makes more sense.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> food -> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:52:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(I think?  I’m not sure how to find a Prop that isn’t in Set.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 16:54:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Maybe Prop is a subset of Set.
Coq < Definition p2s : Prop -> Set := fun x => x.
p2s is defined

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 17:01:16 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

In any event, the difference between [exists x, foo x : Prop] and [{x
| foo x} : Set] is just like the difference between [A \/ B : Prop]
and [{A} + {B} : Set], which we talked about earlier.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 28 18:34:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

xbronad: the tiling window manager for bros

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 28 18:36:18 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

Sup brah, I saw you were tryin'a show two windows at the same time.
Legit.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 18:59:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Incorrect elimination of "p" in the inductive type "ex":
the return type has sort "Set" while it should be "Prop".
Elimination of an inductive object of sort Prop
is not allowed on a predicate in sort Set
because proofs can be eliminated only to build proofs.

what

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:00:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

That’s the same difference between Set and Prop again.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:53:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

... Screwtape Letters, the stage production?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:55:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Is the word you're looking for "groupware"?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:55:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, I think you just described git, so maybe not.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:55:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Although git groupware would be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:55:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are we still electing?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:56:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:57:29 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

You kids have facebook, you don't need groupware.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:58:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I,I http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 19:58:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

See, I read that, and then I think "wait, groupware done right would
actually help people get laid"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:01:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Groupware done right is what a lot of people are trying
these days, e.g. Asana, and also the whole BPM space. It's
still a mess because humans don't like it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:01:12 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Getting nerdy humans laid might be more plausible.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:01:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

I feel like I might not object to that condition

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:01:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Tought to put that on slide ten of your pitch deck.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:06:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, I should convince Nickolai to show up to someone's membership
meeting to ask the question

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:10:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

the girl your girl could smell like

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:12:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

++

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Nov 28 20:12:41 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: When the current frosh are seniors, the incoming frosh can be younger than Pokemon. - haiiro <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:12:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Who's secretary?

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:12:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

~Rachel, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:12:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I assume the real one is gone?

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:12:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

It... looked like that.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:13:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: >_< Please read: A personal appeal from Wikipedia programmer Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, huh.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:13:09 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm disappointed that your zsig doesn't say "A personal appeal from
Debathena programmer Geoffrey Thomas"

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:13:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandom Harris <geofft>

How's this?

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(er, typo)

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:15:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, someone actually runs Linux Mint?

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:15:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, restructuring passed?

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:15:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b4b3f0d Staging: wlan-ng: p80211netdev.c: Coding style cleanups <nelhage>

Didn't you hear? Netcraft^WDistrowatch reports it's more popular than
Ubuntu!!!!11

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:15:52 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

jis was just talking today about switching to Linux Mint (from his
Karmic installation)

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:15:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Restructuring was unanimous. It's _way_ more popular than Unity

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:16:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, really? Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: ua
Time: Mon Nov 28 21:22:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I didn't hear a no, did you hear a no?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Mon Nov 28 23:08:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:01:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

This is the bestest patch ever
https://lwn.net/Articles/468660/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:02:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's an I/O scheduler that claims that writes succeeded before
sending them to the drive, sends them to the drive in random order,
and occasionally reboots the machine

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:03:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

er, sends them to the drive in _reverse_ order (and only on explicit
flush)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:04:15 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:05:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(It's specifically designed to maximize your chance of reproducing a
"my power died and now my filesystem is corrupted" bug, by abusing
the cache and causing power to fail at specifically inopportune times)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Nov 29 03:05:54 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Just one thing - me or him? I love life... pull out the pin <eichin>

nice.
"I'm happy to include suggestions that make this elevator even more evil."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:20:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

gruh. awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:20:20 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Good morning.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

extremely vivid dreams, I apparently needed the sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:28:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(like, I could hear tyger's disk failing from the next room over,
while using an ancient build of PuTTY that didn't really work in a
Starbucks -- the Starbucks in my hometown, mind you, not the
franchise that I owned -- because someone else had used their iPad to
log in and had gotten a bunch of BIOS error messages in their SSH
session, and while scrolling past had accidentally set tyger from
amd64 to Alpha)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:35:09 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:35:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I know! I was skeptical that it supported changing the CPU type while
it was running, but that's what the menu in the error scrollback
indicated!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:36:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Nothing wrong with hotplugging CPUs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:37:23 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why _alpha_ of all things.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:37:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Alphas are awesome! Or at least, I assume Alphas are awesome because
Betas are awesome

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:39:43 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are Alphas awesome? I've only ever run x86, x86_64, Itanium, SPARC,
ARM, MIPS, and PPC.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:39:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

i,i https://twitter.com/SecureTips/status/85881312090652673

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:41:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

ha.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:41:53 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Why are you touching this when you should be finding kitten?
 <rnjacobs>

AIUI, what made alphas awesome was that they could push the clocks higher than
anyone else at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:43:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mostly just like RISC at an intellectual level

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:46:31 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You’ll get over it if you start thinking about CISC as a complicated
scheme for instruction compression (woah, the acronym almost fits)
to reduce cache footprints, rather than a historical accident.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:47:42 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:47:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:47:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 097e82f [ide] hdio.txt update <nelhage>

Now I'm imagining a RISC processor that supports gzip'd instruction
streams.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:47:57 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: According to most advanced algorithms, the world's best name is Craig. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:48:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: b9fbc6c [PATCH] s390: zfcp host adapter <nelhage>

(pipelining across branches: would be a bitch)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:49:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Would there...be a benefit to a processor that supports gzip'd
instruction streams?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:52:49 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It would be interestng to compare CISC to the ideal
compression for instruction streams.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:53:39 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What would the ideal be, huffman coding the instructions?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:53:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Yeah, something like that. Take a big binary and huffman
code the instructinos off it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:54:14 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Of course you would need to figure out what your RISC
instruction set is.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:55:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

i,i have AMD or Intel give you a CPU without the instruction decoder
and use their microops?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:55:27 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

You don't need the CPU, you could jsut translate to
microops, if that's well defined.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:55:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 35f720c x86: Initialize stack canary in secondary start <nelhage>

Well, as a wild approximation,
[nelhage@hectique:/tmp]$ objcopy  -j .text -O binary /opt/google/chrome/chrome /dev/stdout | wc -c
33982902
[nelhage@hectique:/tmp]$ objcopy  -j .text -O binary /opt/google/chrome/chrome /dev/stdout | gzip -c | wc -c
14901033
[nelhage@hectique:/tmp]$ objcopy  -j .text -O binary /opt/google/chrome/chrome /dev/stdout | bzip2 -c | wc -c
12867196

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 16:58:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 98f0697 [POWERPC] cell: Unify spufs syscall path <nelhage>

So, x86-as-generated-by-GCC isnot doing a great job at being
incompressible. Of course, there are a bunch of constraints that
apply to an ISA in order to be efficiently executable, notably that
seeking needs to be efficient.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:00:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 9c5a3d7 [MIPS] Handle aliases in vmalloc correctly. <nelhage>

I'm not sure of a good way to get an approximation subject to that
constraint.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:09:50 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f8ea79c mfd: Add WM8350 PMU register definitions <nelhage>

Anecdotally, it's hard to write an encoding that will encode strings
of x87 code that are < 440 bytes such that the encoding + the encoder
is smaller than the unencoded text :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:20:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: We are as capable as before of affording for everyone a high standard of life
—-- high, I mean, compared with, say, twenty years ago --— and will soon learn
to afford a standard higher still.  We were not previously deceived. <ctl>

I'm not sure you really need efficient seeks. Otherwise trace caches
wouldn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:22:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Liquidate real estate! <ctl>

There's no particular reason you couldn't get a 80% solution without
any hardware tweaks. Just JIT your compressed instruction stream. If
you were particularly clever, you could probably save some main bus
operations. It would be exactly like how we used to use compressed RAM
with our virtual disks.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:25:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: 27f6cb1 sdhci: increase timeout for internal clock stabilization. <nelhage>

Does JIT'ing your compressed insn stream help if the relevant
constrained resource is icache?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:26:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Liquidate stocks! <ctl>

Depends on which level of cache is the bottleneck.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 17:27:00 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: bcc77d9 ide-floppy: cleanup and unify debugging macro calls <nelhage>

Fair.

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump/n-c
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:09:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

SIPB depends a lot on teaching-by-overhearing (doing our work in
public, etc.), and thereby misses a lot on teaching security

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:13:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

commit b0d6b0a5517cfe21f49adfc9b235c04e9128f632
Author: Nickolai Zeldovich <nickolai@csail.mit.edu>
Date:   Tue Nov 29 19:12:47 2011 -0500

    blah

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:15:19 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Oh no, he didn't. :(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:18:58 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Try honestly to see things from the other person's view. <afarrell>

I think "-0500" is the most meaningful part of that commit message.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:19:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i nobody ever got tenure by spending their time writing good commit
messages

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 19:35:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> 3-133

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Nov 29 20:19:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm, I should do something with SIPB's Alpha sometime ...

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 22:34:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

So can I make tons of money by buying other *-class.org domains?

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 22:41:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I see that biology-class.org, chemistry-class.org, pl-class.org,
computability-class.org, quantum-class.org, etc. aren't registered

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Tue Nov 29 22:42:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oops, "principal of least privilege" was not a pun.

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Tue Nov 29 22:42:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Although I guess compared to your regular Athena account,
daemon.scripts is a principal of least privilege.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 22:50:05 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Sand won't save you this time... <eichin>

most of them are two or three letter
abbreviations (ml, db, pgm), not names

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 23:04:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hence "pl". But there's like security-class.org.

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 23:04:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Speaking of which, \exists security-class.org

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 23:06:34 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

i,i type-class.org

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 23:10:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

meta-class.org?

Class: geofft Instance: stanford
Time: Tue Nov 29 23:11:07 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I never.

Class: geofft Instance: davidben
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:11:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://dankaminsky.com/2011/08/31/notnotar/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:15:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

why am I so sleepy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:15:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I woke up at 4

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:15:30 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Go have vivid dreams.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:24:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Where is the hidden "MIT" in today's homepage?

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:25:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

You mean, not in the obvious places?

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:26:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Is it simply that it's a picture of MIT?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 00:56:39 2011 Host: OPUS.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:36:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

/mit/geofft
/home/geofft

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:37:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wow, I remembered my passphrase

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:46:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, what
http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/tags/control-file-is-empty.html
http://lintian.debian.org/tags/control-file-is-empty.html

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:46:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...huh

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:47:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, at least one of those packages is unique to Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:50:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...a2mp3 is at debhelper compat *4*

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:50:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah. And more importantly, it contains an empty debian/conffiles in the
source package

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:52:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

....and the binary doesn't ship a copyright? wtf

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:53:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, qemu-kvm ships a /usr/etc?

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:55:27 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ahh and it was uploaded as Debian-native

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:55:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*cries*

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:56:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I am fighting the urge to hold this against everyone who's ever touched
this package, because I know almost all of them and I know they all
know better

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:58:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Anyway, lintian.ubuntuwire.org++

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 01:59:32 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It will be really awesome when I manage to get it generating reports on
Ubuntu-specific tags

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:17:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/p/planet.rb/planet.rb_0.3.3-0.1ubuntu1/changelog

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:19:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ok. Uploaded a2mp3 0.01-0ubuntu6. I hope you're happy

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:20:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yay

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:21:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh. Except I left out the -sa because I actually gave it a tarball

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:25:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, _what_

usr/share/pyshared/gluon/tests/test_html.py (#!/bin/python != /usr/bin/python)

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:27:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/a2mp3/0.01-0ubuntu6

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:30:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That is the best changelog

Class: geofft Instance: cluedumps
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:58:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Submitted my slides to Reddit. Got 27 upvotes so far. (I expected,
like, none)

Class: geofft Instance: cluedumps
Time: Wed Nov 30 02:56:33 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

(upboated earlier)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Nov 30 03:24:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently @semenko and @jessicamckellar are "similar to" me.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Nov 30 03:26:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

As are @xavid, @hoppzor, and @redroselet?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 04:36:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

rgh, -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 11:02:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

ughhhh... shouldn't have hacked on 6.892 before bed... I'm pretty sure my
brain decided my alarm clock didn't type check and hit snooze...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 11:05:44 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You should get that alarm clock that rolls away, or the one where you
have to complete a puzzle

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 11:20:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I did complete a puzzle! I decided that the only way my alarm would be of
the proper time is if I reprogrammed it by an hour

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 11:36:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*proper type, but same thing

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:01:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't have any of these problems in Netscape 1.0 *shakes cane*

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:02:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Or rather, I don't have any of these problems in lynx *strokes Unix beard*

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:02:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Netscape 1.0

You spelled "Mosaic" wrong

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:09:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

re EV: "As far as I can tell, they're mostly there to charge more
money for certificates"

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:48:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

<3 my giant battery. "1 hour 22 minutes remaining  19%"

Class: geofft Instance: mailing-lists-on-teh-interwebs
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:50:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Top-post? Bottom-post? Reply to the list? Reply to the person Cc the
list? Set Reply-to? Set Mail-followup-to? Who knows???

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:53:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

waterbearding

Class: geofft Instance: mailing-lists-on-teh-interwebs
Time: Wed Nov 30 12:54:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think I'm going to respect the dude who replied to me's decision to
To: the list, but not respect his decision to top-post

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:06:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I have the opposite problem: 19 minutes remaining, 83%

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:20:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Things that confuse me, partial list:
- debian packaging
- autoconf

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:21:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

- the HURD

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:21:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Redhat packaging isn't really any less confusing, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:21:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't even try to understand RPM packaging. :)
I'm ... just vaguely confused about what Asheesh was trying to do
here and what order configure and such happen

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:21:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

RPM packaging requires less wanking, so there's that.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:22:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Really? _Really?_ Are you aware of the "who's the real RPM upstream" fight?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:22:46 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Apparently not?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:23:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

There's like, the thing that Red Hat maintains, and then rpm.org

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:26:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, apparently rpm.org is the thing Red Hat maintains, except for the
bit where there are undoubtedly tons of patches, and rpm5.org is the
other upstream
https://lwn.net/Articles/196523/
https://lwn.net/Articles/214255/
https://lwn.net/Articles/441085/

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Wed Nov 30 13:28:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

You know it's high-quality drama because Red Hat fired the previous
RPM maintainer.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:09:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh man, my package builds on some weirdo IBM mainframe architecture!
Watch me care

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:09:31 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "This <gesture> is always the wrong tool." --Zathras <pquimby>

i,i packaging is caring

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:26:34 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Debussy understood that a work of art, or an effort to create beauty,
was always regarded by some people ... as a personal attack."

Class: geofft Instance: strace
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:46:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: strace
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:46:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, I bet running a 32-bit strace against a 64-bit process is confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: strace
Time: Wed Nov 30 14:49:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That's better.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Nov 30 15:02:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Nov 30 15:06:45 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Saying that on that instance is a bit meta, no?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Nov 30 15:08:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Some context: I am going to punch the people who designed UNIX

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Nov 30 15:09:03 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Better hurry up, they are dying off.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Nov 30 15:09:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I have plenty of time to punch the people who designed Linux, which
is close enough

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Nov 30 18:36:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Which server is Spock again?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Nov 30 18:37:11 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

r-m

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Nov 30 18:37:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, aha.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Nov 30 18:37:28 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought spock was broder's thing...

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Nov 30 18:37:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I was like "wait, we don't have a server named star-trek or
boldly-go, do we?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Nov 30 19:41:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I bet I'll be able to focus if I eat dinner

Class: geofft Instance: spam
Time: Wed Nov 30 19:47:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

From: Uloop <newsletter@uloop.com>
Subject: How are you paying for school next semester?
To: geofft@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: spam
Time: Wed Nov 30 19:48:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

1. It's called "grad school in the sciences", maybe you've heard of it?
2. It's called "getting a job", maybe you've heard of it?

Class: geofft Instance: o_O
Time: Wed Nov 30 20:14:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ blanche w20-439 -r | wc -l
blanche: Insufficient permission to perform requested database access while getting members of list resonance-exec
165

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Nov 30 20:16:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I lost a black bike at 4th floor in D tower today. The place I parked
my bike is very close to reuse stuff area.  I know it's very
unlikely, but maybe someone thought that was a reused bike and so
take it away."

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Nov 30 20:17:53 2011 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

... was it... locked up?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Nov 30 20:20:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

I'm assuming not, which I assume was the facepalm

Class: geofft Instance: 437
Time: Wed Nov 30 20:23:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily represent the views of the ASA, CAC, its parent companies or subsidiaries. <geofft>

CLEAN UP YOUR MESS PEOPLE.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:00:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

him or her : ze :: sir or madam : ?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:01:45 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

zadam!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:01:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... Huzzein?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:02:23 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

i,i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ser

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:02:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That works.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:02:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Greg Bear uses it, and he would know what's up, because he's married
to Poul Anderson's daughter.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:06:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I am fairly confident that Song of Ice and Fire doesn't use "Ser" as
a gender-neutral term

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:06:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

==broder

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 21:12:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

"Estimad@"

Class: geofft Instance: stuffmaster@
Time: Wed Nov 30 22:03:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: stuffmaster@
Time: Wed Nov 30 22:04:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Some IP address in China decided that our comment form was probably
attackable and sent us 138 comments from hacker@hacker.org,
'../../../../../../../../boot.ini', etc.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:17:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... wait. wait, did Rutter change that to lux _perpetua_ and I
_didn't notice_ for how long?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:18:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Not knowing his lyrics offhand, both aeterna and perpetua should be in
it.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:18:39 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Wait, don't the phrases "lux aeterna" and "lux perpetua" both
==lizdenys

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:18:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, are these different movements?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:18:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:19:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Different phrases in the communion.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:19:14 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah, playing the Durufle Requiem in my head, I get both of them.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:19:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

You're right, movement 7 is in fact lux aeterna.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:20:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, speaking of requiems (requi..a? declensions halp?), I guess
concert choir (Faure's Requiem) is this weekend. Wonder if I can make
it.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:29:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

You should go. <3 Faure's Requiem.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:30:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

==

Class: geofft Instance: dormcon
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:43:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:44:57 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> him or her : ze :: sir or madam : 
plane, master!

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:56:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  2011-11-30 23:56  (lux aeterna luceat eis)
    I SORTED TEH FILE
    AND TEH COMM DOES NOT LIKE IT

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Wed Nov 30 23:57:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

numerical sort for the lose.

Class: geofft Instance: 491
Time: Thu Dec  1 00:04:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

What the crap does everyone do in 491 that is so loud

Class: geofft Instance: is&t@
Time: Thu Dec  1 00:25:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ugh, Sloanies

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 01:58:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: 491
Time: Thu Dec  1 02:26:05 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Swinger parties?

Class: geofft Instance: 491
Time: Thu Dec  1 02:26:31 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

That makes sense given it's a Wednesday night

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:43:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*yawn*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:44:01 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

geofft write your thesis

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:51:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I can't write my thesis when I'm asleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:52:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

well you're not asleep anymore

Class: geofft Instance: forced-verbatim-search
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:59:32 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Did you see the news.ycombinator thread about how if you add
"&tbs=li:1" to your Google query URL you get forced verbatim search?

Class: geofft Instance: forced-verbatim-search
Time: Thu Dec  1 15:59:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't read HN regularly, for some reason

Class: geofft Instance: forced-verbatim-search
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:00:37 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

https://encrypted.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=examlpe&tbs=li:1

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:37:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... why is my process stuck in __kernel_vsyscall when it's not making a syscall?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:37:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, futex.

Next question: why is my single-threaded process deadlocked?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:40:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oooh, now I got gdb deadlocked too.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:42:00 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a squad of Keystone Kops.
 <rnjacobs>

I bet you can get *trace deadlocked also!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:43:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

All right, managed to use gdb to get it out of the lock and SIGPIPE
the process. "Good enough"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:53:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh huh, I'm on finboard. Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:54:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

adehnert@novgorod ~ [16:49] $ b finboard-request
ach_12
kamills

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:54:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

SOFIXIT

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:55:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't think I'm supposed to.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:55:24 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mostly I was amused.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:55:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Also, maybe she's being useful? Who knows.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec  1 16:55:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... Did sao-desk just send us an e-mail about having mail at 4:55 PM?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 17:24:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> getting off the couch with more determination -> food -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: toons
Time: Thu Dec  1 18:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*facepalm* put your funded events on events.mit.edu, guys

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec  1 20:01:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

afk until ~11:30

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:39:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

My freezer has the following frozen vegetables:
- cranberries
- blueberries
- strawberries
I am disappointed

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:39:16 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

vegetables, you say.

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:39:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Clearly you should make a pie, though.

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:39:38 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And you said you passed 7.01x?

Class: geofft Instance: christmas
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:42:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ugh, "Santa knows that we're God's children / That makes everything
right / Let's give thanks to the Lord above / 'Cause Santa Claus
comes tonight" is stuck in my head again

Class: geofft Instance: christmas
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:42:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(I complained about the theology of this last year)

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:43:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, they aren't berries, so...

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:46:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Fruits in my fridge:
- a tomato
- two potatos
Still disappointed.

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:46:53 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

... I thought potatos were roots, not fruit

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:49:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, I found something that's actually a vegetable! Mushrooms.

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:50:32 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... <pedant> Mushrooms are fruiting bodies of fungi, not vegetables :p </pedant>

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:52:15 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Tubers.

Class: geofft Instance: freezer
Time: Fri Dec  2 00:53:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

Tubular.

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Fri Dec  2 01:39:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Huh, both English and Japanese do "n" + "p" = "mp"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec  2 01:40:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I actually got something off my Amazon wishlist once. My first
reaction was "... wait, my Amazon wishlist is public?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec  2 03:15:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I want this shirt, but I can't figure out where I might possibly feel
comfortable wearing it.
http://store.penny-arcade.com/products/pat070161

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  2 14:49:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

awake.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  2 14:49:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> shower -> release-team

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  2 16:41:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> BU until like 11

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:16:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

drove an SUV up to the front of W20

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:16:59 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"That's different from into the front of w20, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:17:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yes! I successfully failed to destroy Anna's

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:17:54 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Ohhh, right, how do we make something infinite for three seconds? - jaxxson <wings>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:06 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

*LAUGHS* wings++

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:20 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

*high fives*

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:27 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: WHY AM I GIVING YOU ADVICE ON HOW TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR VAGINA? - afarrell <wings>

*high fives!*

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:33 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Hehehehehe

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:54 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: It's only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything. - Tyler Durden, Fight Club <wings>

Hey Cathy, do you want to plot with me to destroy Anna's?

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:19:57 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Real respect takes longer than official respect. - Valentine, Ender's Game <wings>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:20:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

anyone around w20 want to help me move sound, in seriousness?

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:20:40 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

If I were around W20, I would, but alas that I am not. Sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: accomplished-today
Time: Sat Dec  3 00:24:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

nvm, we're good

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:17:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"...invitation to her debutante."
"What does that mean?"
"She's coming out."
"As a lesbian?"
"... No. To society."
"At the end of her debutante, is she guaranteed a marriage?"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:17:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Isn't it called a "debut"
and she herself is called the "debutante" ?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:22:29 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: When all you have is a hammer, you cease to have a hammer. <eichin>

or "debutante ball" perhaps

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That's what I thought it was, but pretty sure I heard them just say
"debutante"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:23:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

People are wrong in the real world?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-t
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:44:01 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

You're mistaken. People aren't wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:54:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hey people in Finboard groups, no reminder that apps are due today
has gone out recently, right?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:55:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(I don't see any, but I might just suck at mail, or at mailing lists)

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:59:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I don't remember any.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 01:59:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I haven'nt noticed any.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:00:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nothing to finboard-groups@
(https://diswww.mit.edu/menelaus/finboard-groups/).

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:00:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ooh, it's discuss-archived? Clever.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:01:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, Alex, while you're here, off the top of your head have we
recognized any undergrad funded groups recently?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:01:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Not that I know of.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:01:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, I'm going to pretend finboard-groups is up-to-date, then

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:01:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Want to move syncopasian to finboard-groups-only?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:02:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*snrk* Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:03:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*blanches* Blwbbhh, this is a very long list

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:05:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... Why are the classes of 2012 and 2013 funded and 2014 and 2015 not?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:07:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

<3 the new ASA DB

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:09:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think I have desynched my body's sleep schedule and my mind's

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:12:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh? Why's that?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:12:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's not incomprehensible like the old one!

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:12:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I go to asa.mit.edu/forms, click the obvious link, and it gets me the
data I want in a convenient format!

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:13:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Right, I should make CSV export exist.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:13:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think I'd first prefer that you put little sort buttons on the tables

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:13:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which data were you looking for?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I am reneging on my claim to pretend finboard-groups is up-to-date,
and am actually verifying it

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:14:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i To: select-email-from-groups-where-funding=undergrad-and-status=recognized@asa.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:15:57 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:16:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

YKYWT.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:16:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't actually trust mail_scripts. Nor do I want to write mailing
list software.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:16:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

i,i To:
select-email-from-groups-where-';drop-table-sucks_to_be_you@asa.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:17:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't want to accept sql in email addresses is actually pretty low
on my list of reasons not to do that...

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:18:19 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

I'm not even sure what search terms to use, but pretty sure there's 
absolutely no precedent for supporting to: select-*-from-customers@example.com.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:18:41 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

conditions split by commas and and'ed together would actually be
pretty reasonable to do and I think respectably secure.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:19:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i To: (&(objectClass=asaGroup)(fundingClass=cn=finboard,ou=ua,dc=mit,dc=edu)(groupStatus=recognized))@asa.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:21:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:21:43 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Prof Ken B--- at Cornell has been working on it in various guises for
several years, including attribute-based crypto to make the security
story work. 

Class: geofft Instance: finboard.d.d
Time: Sat Dec  3 02:22:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We should totally make discuss-the-scripts-autoinstaller.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:03:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

What is "Kaleidoscope"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:03:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(More to the point, really, there are still student groups I haven't
heard of? We have a lot of student groups, apparently)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:11:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Huh, we only have 9 groups with names matching "*asian*".

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:20:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The UA is funded?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:20:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

What happens if they submit a Finboard app? The world explodes?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:23:06 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

First, Finboard explodes, because they can't handle numbers with more
than four digits (and four is pushing it).

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:24:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

You should submit an app for ESP! It'll be funny

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:25:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've been thinking about this for ages. But I'm (a) no longer on
Finboard, so I wouldn't get to watch, and (b) no longer ESP
treasurer, so it'd be weirder for me to do that.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:25:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

For bonus points, ask to pay for a Tech ad.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:25:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Or a $501 lunch for 100 people.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:28:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The ASA _isn't_ funded?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:29:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I guess it's not a problem that we can't ask the UA for money,
because we can ask the UA for money.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:29:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(Of course, in practice, we just ask the UA for money.)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:38:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Or a $501 lunch for 100 people.

Huh? Isn't that allowed?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:40:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

No. A $500 lunch is.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:40:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Really? Is it no longer $5--10/person?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:41:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm being less than serious. But for lunch it tends to be closer to
$5 unless you have a good excuse.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:41:55 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "And did he kill you?" -Court transcript <pquimby>

Challenge accepted.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:43:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:43:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hrm?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:44:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

things that may or may not be the same:
http://ua.mit.edu/funding/finboard/policies/
http://ua.mit.edu/funding/finboard/policies.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:44:20 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Windmills do not work that way." <pquimby>

I believe you just dared the world to submit a $501 food request.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:44:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Please tell me somebody is going to deal with my email?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:44:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I didn't get your e-mail, I'm not on finboard, remember?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:45:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(I actually have no idea what you're talking about, but if it was to
finboard@, if you send a *poke* then I'll see it)

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:46:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, how do I get permissions to edit the UA website?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:46:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Be on ua-exec-members, IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:48:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*sigh* I _think_ the PDF is current?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:48:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

> ua-exec-members
*blanches* Wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:49:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:49:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I didn't realize that being Rachel was an ex officio position"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:49:38 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

She was chair of some temporary committee without a mailing list, or
something? I think it was vaguely reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:50:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

ua-chairs? But, I guess, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:52:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, \exists ua-website-edit now.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:53:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You could ask for finboard to get bits to edit
http://ua.mit.edu/funding/finboard/. I know how to make that happen,
though I dunno that they'd think to ask me...

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:53:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, the crap is Smarty. PHP already has a templating engine, it's
called PHP.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 04:57:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

the crap is this
http://ua.mit.edu/funding/finboard/feedback/

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:01:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The UA's ikiwiki has recent changes but not diff???

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:02:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I dunno, but it existed on the old site, or something, so I kept it around?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:02:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The UA's ikiwiki is *awesome*.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:06:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, I _think_ I have done enough cleanup now that I feel
comfortable spamming finboard-groups (whether I should talk to the
chair before doing so is entirely orthogonal).

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:08:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, look, I can't spell "hello"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:09:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:09:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think I am going to go sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:28:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wonder if I can find a slice of pizza at this hour

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:29:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Actually, I can. Let's rephrase, I wonder if I can find a slice of
non-7-11 pizza at this hour

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:31:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

How do I get the Internet to answer this for me?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Dec  3 05:56:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Can we just turn on DNSSEC on Hesiod, fix libc's implementation with
"the power of MIT compels you", and call it done?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Dec  3 06:04:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, what does that solve?

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 06:06:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, about that...

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 09:05:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: Just clone the damn git repo yourself.
git://ua.mit.edu/wiki.git IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sat Dec  3 09:05:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

/sub to -c ua-auto to get diffs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 18:53:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec  3 18:55:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar. <ageng>

I'm awake too!

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec  3 19:38:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

oh the wonderful cross
oh the one derpful cross

Class: geofft Instance: rleigh.q
Time: Sat Dec  3 23:05:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Sorry for the long delay--I had to finish my PhD, and this got
pushed to the back of my TODO list."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:16:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, where was I.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.q
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:17:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"my english is badder than normal"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:18:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... we don't fine you for late apps, we just fail to fund you. It's
easier that way

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:28:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... why do I have nine tabs open to rolesweb

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:29:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... "Sir W Gilbert and Sir A Sullivan Fund"???

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:29:39 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:29:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That is the best name ever

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:29:59 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:32:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, "How To Get Around Mit-Funding"
i,i Including such tips as "corporate sponsorship", "alumni
donations", and "running an undocumented business using Athena"

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:38:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

cold-pressed coffee takes too long to make

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:38:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, I think my coffee isn't ground at the right size for it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:58:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Decided that I couldn't concentrate. Made coffee. Drank coffee. I'm
now very sleepy. What?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:59:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(See also, woke up at 7pm. Also I need to be awake at 11am and at
4pm, so I suspect I'll just stay up until early evening, provided
that more coffee doesn't make me sleepier)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 00:59:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Circadian rhythms: still a bitch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:00:15 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Clothing optional, pants mandatory. - pbaranay <wings>

Can you sleep now until 11am?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:00:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I should have really gone to sleep at 1 am yesterday, but I was too
tired to drag myself onto SafeRide, and so ended up staying up till
like 8 clicking stupid links in the ASA DB and Reddit

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:01:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wings: "I have too much to do"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:02:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Edward is writing in monadic style :-( :-(

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:03:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I guess, unlike Haskell, I can actually read it"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:12:40 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I know somebody (IIRC) who finds coffee makes them sleepier. I forget
who, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:13:04 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I killed more people than you pooped on! Bwahahahaha! - brogan (to shawest) <wings>

Caffeine can make me sleepier, though it often just has no effect

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:18:56 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: MIT-AI-LAB-7TH-FLOOR-ADOLESCENT-PREP-SCHOOL-MENTALITY.ARPA <eichin>

thessaly comes to mind

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:45:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://ua.mit.edu/transparency/legislation/

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:46:06 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I don't understand your zsig. I'm pretty sure a woman without a man is a "wo". - achernya <wings>

I get a blank page

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:46:08 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Returns empty content for me.

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme.d
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:50:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do the mailto links on http://ua.mit.edu/people/chairs/ work for
anybody else?

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:51:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

More to the point, where can I see the schedule of Senate meetings?

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:56:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Homepage.

Class: geofft Instance: downforeveryoneelseorjustme
Time: Sun Dec  4 01:56:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does
https://www.google.com/calendar/render?cid=801k8js92m03ikvs3gk85o72tg%40group.calendar.google.com
work?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:24:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's a little unfortunate that Architecture: all packages can't have
anything setuid in them.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:24:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(But only a little)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:24:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

Under what circumstance would that actually be useful?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:26:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I have a specific use case in mind but, uh, I'm not sure it's public

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:27:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ed5f143 V4L/DVB (12169): em28xx-video: fix VIDIOC_G_FMT and VIDIOC_ENUMFMT with webcams <nelhage>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:27:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I mean, in general Architecture: all packages are just convenient.
And something that's otherwise entirely full of like shell scripts or
Perl is particularly annoying

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Dec  4 13:28:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(Well, it's technically public and in bugs.debian.org and some git
repos, but I don't feel like running up and down my class drawing
attention to it)

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 00:48:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

ugh

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 00:48:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I hate software, why does it have to exist

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 00:49:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

NO WAIT. THAT DOESN'T aargh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:10:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> Chicago Pizza

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:13:46 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

They're open this late?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:13:57 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

They're the canonical late-night eatery. Open till 4am.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:22:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

There is, however, some gamesmanship.
After midnight, they start making smaller slices.
After 3:45am, it becomes feasible to negotiate better pricing on multiple
slices, such as 2-for-1.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:24:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

Oh wow, I'll need to remember that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:25:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

If you're looking for other late night food, Hi-fi is open late too.
I thought they wer open untli 3 AM every day, but Yelp claims only 2
AM Monday-Wednesday, and doesn't say anything about Sunday.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:25:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that with a floating eye you could see in the dark.
 <rnjacobs>

Hi-Fi was definitely open 'til 4 when I was an undergrad.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:37:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I have often had good luck showing up at Chicago at 3:55 and getting
extra pizza without even asking for it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:38:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:38:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I usually ask for two plain slices. Once I asked for that and they
offered to just give me an entire pie

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:38:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't like Hi-Fi's food.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:38:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

although that was the pinnacle of my luck, I think. Normally the most
extra stuff I get is an extra slice or two or free toppings

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:53:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

Where is Hi-Fi at?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:54:17 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

central square, institute west side of mass ave.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:54:27 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

past mary's, but not far.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:57:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Across the street from the Middle East. (So, ~right next to Mary's)

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:58:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

what is this incredibly dumb mashup of "Every Breath You Take" and "I'll
Fly Away" by some crappy rappers

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 01:59:18 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

right.  across brookline from the middle east, same side
of mass ave.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 03:24:38 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Err, rnjacobs, I don't think Hi-Fi was ever open until 4.
I think they've been pretty consistent on hours for the past 12 years.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 14:52:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

okay, what is _with_ my sleep schedule

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 14:53:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I slept 3-11 at SIPB, got up, went home, took a shower, got some
coffee, and slept... ~5:30 to now on my couch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 14:53:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I can't even tell which is am and which pm.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec  5 15:13:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

3-11 pm yesterday, and 5:30 am today

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Mon Dec  5 15:20:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

oremanj / jobs / oremanj  2011-12-05 15:19  (Joshua Oreman)
    Did the old "make a list" trick, and Stripe actually comes out about
    even with SpaceX.
shawest / else / kyoki  2011-12-05 15:19  (I need a new zsig.)
    Facebook ... IN SPACE

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:25:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

BitTorment

Class: geofft Instance: ++
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:35:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#DoughnutMug

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:40:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Worst-case scenario, I'll order something."
"Worst-case scenario, I'll make something."
"That _would_ be worst case"

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:42:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, dumb question, where did the matrix view on Matrix go

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:44:48 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

?

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Dec  5 22:44:50 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

The answer is out there, Neo, and it's looking for you, and it will find
you if you want it to.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 23:45:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ecumenism is hard, let's go schisming

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 23:46:25 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Rebecca E Krentz-Wee <rkw>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Dec  5 23:46:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh hai

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Tue Dec  6 00:53:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i "the Nicene Quiz"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Tue Dec  6 00:54:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

roomq: "Jesus ... is a human ... but he can make the divine saving
throws"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Tue Dec  6 00:59:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

roomq: "Wait, I really didn't realize I believed in the resurrection
of the body"

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Tue Dec  6 03:16:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm apparently giving a version of my server security cluedump/talk
at bostonsecuritymeetup.org in January.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 05:32:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I apparently need to sleep. _Again?_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 05:40:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

and my mind is too full.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Tue Dec  6 16:24:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wait, _what_? ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Tue Dec  6 16:25:09 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Narcolepsy what what?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:39:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

why is getting to campus so hard

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:39:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

the previous ezride drove straight past me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:39:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Because you don't own a motorcycle?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:40:04 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because you don't own a Batmobile?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:40:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

Because you don't own a teleporter?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:40:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

If you don't already, sometimes it's helpful to wave at them if it
oloks like they're not slowing down.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:40:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Dude, I don't understand the design of the batmobile.
Thing seems like it would be really weak against IEDs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:41:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The dude made eye contact with me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:41:49 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Call Zimride!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec  6 17:42:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Anyway, -> Stata

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Tue Dec  6 21:55:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

software piracy using arrrrrrsync

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Tue Dec  6 21:57:00 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

arring on the floor laughing

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Tue Dec  6 21:59:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

How do you steal millions of dollars from venture capitalists? Talk
to Michael Arrrrrrington.

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere.status
Time: Tue Dec  6 23:40:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I should eat dinner.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Dec  7 00:29:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/OB7Q8.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Dec  7 00:30:08 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Ohhh, right, how do we make something infinite for three seconds? - jaxxson <wings>

AHHHHHHHHHH

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Dec  7 02:57:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

<3 type errors

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Dec  7 02:58:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"But this is easy to prove," said geofft. "You just need to demonstrate this."
"Type error," said the master.
At that moment, geofft was enlightened.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.892
Time: Wed Dec  7 05:49:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Anomaly: unknown meta ?36601. Please report.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec  7 11:39:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

This room makes funny noises.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec  7 11:39:58 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

what room?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec  7 11:40:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

32-144

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Dec  7 11:41:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"fried chicken can be exchanged for goods and services"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Dec  7 12:00:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's hard for me to be excited about MIT when Khan and Stanford
are winning so hard.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Wed Dec  7 12:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

CS majors should clearly "high six" somehow

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Dec  7 19:36:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I should find a replacement for Google Calendar

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Dec  7 19:36:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

== I want that so bad.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Dec  7 19:36:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

AND it could have different default notifications for all day and normal
hourly events!

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Dec  7 21:11:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I'm pretty sure I have an e-mail with subject line 'Who the hell is
geofft'"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Wed Dec  7 21:19:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"We're on speaking terms, we're just not all on _agreeing_ terms"

Class: geofft Instance: how-i-keep-myself-awake-during-asa-meetings
Time: Wed Dec  7 23:17:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/p/we-put-the-rage-in-storage.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: how-i-keep-myself-awake-during-asa-meetings
Time: Wed Dec  7 23:30:22 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I suppose the violent annexation of Rage Warehouse has been discussed?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Dec  8 15:31:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I hate that we have all these homeless people sleeping on the
streets. Why don't they just go home?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Dec  8 15:37:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

dextromethorphan
dextrous meth orphan

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Dec  8 15:39:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Yeah, that little guy is a ninja.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Dec  8 15:48:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ever since his parents were gunned down before his eyes in a drug
deal gone bad, he stalks the street at night in a cape, protecting
the innocent and the addicted

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec  8 17:57:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, "☺" is almost unreadable in the default font

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:27:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Gahhh

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:27:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

If I launch a new gnome-terminal, I mean "launch a new terminal", not
"switch me to a desktop where I already have a terminal"

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:28:38 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Middle click, if you haven't already found that out.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:29:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

What is this click you speak of

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:29:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I hit Super, type gnome-terminal, and hit enter

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:30:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*ahem* Unity gets that one right

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:32:18 2011 Host: 18.111.114.31
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/6.858$ apt-cache show unity
N: Can't select versions from package 'unity' as it is purely virtual
N: No packages found

Class: geofft Instance: face
Time: Thu Dec  8 18:44:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Right, I should figure out if I have any more razor blades and
explicitly decide to buy some if I don't, otherwise I'm never going
to end up shaving again

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:12:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

CPW isn't in Spring I, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

A good summer internship pays more than two semesters of TA stipend.

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:43:23 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

...seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:44:11 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

*reconsiders starting her thesis over the summer*

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:44:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:44:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In fairness, that summer internship is not paying full tuition as well

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:45:27 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

And it might not come with health insurance!

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:45:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...are there internships that *do* come with health insurance?

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:46:01 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From:  <pquimby>

I was on full company benefits last summer...

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:46:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh. Fancy

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:47:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Right, Karen, it's better to earn nothing and pay nothing than to
make some amount of money on your internship, run out of support
before you finish your thesis, and then have to pay tuition (which is
way more than an internship)

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:48:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(anneh has horror stories of people accepting a job, not finishing
their thesis, and working full-time while also paying fall tutition
because they want the MEng)

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:48:41 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

so how does summer funding work, if I have a TAship in the flal?

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:49:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<Meredith giggles. Ink stomps her foot. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

If you're only thesing and not taking classes, summer tuition is
waived.

Class: geofft Instance: course-6-privilege
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:49:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I TA'd all my terms for support. Since I was registered during the
summer and fall, I didn't have to pay tuition for summer/IAP, but I
also didn't get paid

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Thu Dec  8 19:56:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I listened to this album way too much last summer, it reminds me of
VMware

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec  8 20:27:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec  8 20:28:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

SWELL

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec  8 20:29:21 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

ACTUALLY WE ARE MERELY SCHOLARS.  THE GENTLEMEN PART GOT LOST ALONG THE
WAY.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec  8 20:30:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

[stark] xbronad would be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 20:46:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... I do not believe your account number is "1337"

Class: geofft Instance: mccormick
Time: Thu Dec  8 21:34:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

McCormick's website refers to "UA Council Meetings"? I can't tell if
they are incredibly up-to-date or incredibly out-of-date

Class: geofft Instance: mccormick
Time: Thu Dec  8 21:39:33 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Love it.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:12:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Quidditch has the bestest application

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:12:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Two Quaffles - $60"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:13:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm pretty sure that one year Finboard funded better brooms than we
usually would, just because we thought it was hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:14:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm really confused how Bludgers and Snitches are supposed to work

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:15:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"We would like to get two quaffles from the Universal Studios store.
Though they are not regulation balls, they are good publicity and are
easier to learn the game with."

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:16:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah, doggeballs, and a dude running around with the snitch

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Thu Dec  8 22:42:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

One of today's UAT presentations was about somebody trying to build
an RC aircraft usable as a snitch.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec  8 23:35:30 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/67/dash-click-fix/ fwiw

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Dec  8 23:35:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

tech-squares-officers
Trans-Siberian Orchestra

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Fri Dec  9 00:02:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, I really like the style of today's comic

Class: geofft Instance: calendar
Time: Fri Dec  9 01:25:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Was I supposed to do something tomorrow...?

Class: geofft Instance: calendar
Time: Fri Dec  9 01:26:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh right, I'm giving someone a makeup quiz, I should potentially be
awake for that.

Class: geofft Instance: student-group-hats
Time: Fri Dec  9 01:31:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh FML, I bet GSC Funding Board and Finboard are going to conflict

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  9 01:49:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> home -> melatonin

Class: geofft Instance: ++
Time: Fri Dec  9 03:26:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://weblibs.herokuapp.com/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  9 14:45:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

awake and showered, walking to campus, will catch up on mail shortly

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:00:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Merry Christmas!
http://i.imgur.com/BTffJ.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:00:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

"aren't you a little early?"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:01:34 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

*looks at calendar* nah, about right in internet time.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:01:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: f97af06 [IEEE1394]: Fix highlevel reset, which was using the wrong list to iterate. <nelhage>

SYN ACK PSH FIN RST URG

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:02:36 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I wonder if thinkgeek or someone sells a set of ornaments with one tcp
flag on each. They probably should if they don't.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:02:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

++

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:02:44 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I can't possibly be the first person to think of this, right?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:02:51 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:02:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Surely not.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:03:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec  9 17:40:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> W20 for food and tooling

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Dec  9 19:06:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

This is like the saddest e-mail I've gotten in my inbox all year
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1227194

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Dec  9 19:08:04 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

I should establish an e-mail autoreply in my will.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Dec  9 19:08:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Nonono, real professionals do it with a trust these days.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-iap
Time: Fri Dec  9 19:26:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I should figure out what I'm doing.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-iap
Time: Fri Dec  9 19:26:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Especially because I'm apparently doing stuff according to the calendar"

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Dec  9 20:08:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The SIPB office contains jhamrick, oremanj, and me in the same
locations and on the same computers we were yesterday. I'm having
trouble remembering that a day passed

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Dec  9 20:08:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Darn, are you saying cesium and I should have stayed?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Dec  9 20:09:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yeah, I could have kept track of time by seeing how much cesium had
decayed.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Dec  9 20:11:37 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

++

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Fri Dec  9 20:13:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

I giggled

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Fri Dec  9 21:25:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Giving up and hacking on totally-not-tooling-related stuff for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Dec  9 21:39:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, I bet starnine is the wrong test account to use here <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Dec  9 21:45:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Fourier
Furries

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Fri Dec  9 22:42:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, how do I describe this for a non-MIT audience?

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Fri Dec  9 22:43:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

One specific thing - how do I describe "also it sucks because a bunch
of university kids have access to your account"

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Fri Dec  9 22:43:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"services accessible to only mildly trustworthy users"

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Fri Dec  9 22:46:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

WHat's this for?

Class: geofft Instance: cluedump
Time: Fri Dec  9 22:46:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: things-that-are-still-still-not-the-same
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:06:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

kdrinkwa
alioth.debian.org

Class: geofft Instance: things-that-are-still-still-not-the-same.d
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:07:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, I wonder whether "Alioth" means kdrinkwa or alioth.debian.org
first/primarily for kcr these days...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:25:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... there are two orig.tar.gz files of the same names and separate
md5sums? I'm going to punch someone

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:27:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, why doesn't snapshot.d.o have a "download everything" button

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:28:08 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why is it that you keep assuming things make sense?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 10 00:28:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(well, "everything for this package", although "everything ever"
would be convenient provided I find a few terabytes of free space)

Class: geofft Instance: next
Time: Sat Dec 10 16:35:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Huh, abrinson is president-elect? Nifty.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 10 16:37:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

awake.
-> 6-120 for xprod concert (at 5:30)

Class: geofft Instance: xprod
Time: Sat Dec 10 20:25:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

O_o we had like 200 people. in 6-120.

Class: geofft Instance: xprod
Time: Sat Dec 10 20:25:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Quick, someone tell the fire marshall.

Class: geofft Instance: xprod
Time: Sat Dec 10 20:29:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I think we should go back to being in 10-250"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Dec 10 20:41:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

So, uh, if I try to view a message/rfc822 attachment, it... opens it
in mutt. (Which also fails)

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Sat Dec 10 20:41:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wat.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 21:00:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

rhelhide

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 21:02:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm..."rollin', rollin', rollin'" is not really what I think of when I
think of RHEL

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 21:47:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i Intel is releasing the x86_128-bit instruction set. You use it by
setting the "venti mode" flag

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 10 21:56:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... is this a real person?

Upstream Author : Theo Schlossnagle <jesus@omniti.com>

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:09:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... my kernel doesn't compile?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:09:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

tyger:~/6.828/git geofft$ make
+ cc kern/dev/e100.c
+ cc[USER] lib/fork.c
+ ar obj/lib/libjos.a
+ ld obj/user/idle
obj/lib/libjos.a(printfmt.o): In function `printnum':
lib/printfmt.c:50: undefined reference to `__udivdi3'
lib/printfmt.c:58: undefined reference to `__umoddi3'
make: *** [obj/user/idle] Error 1

I have no idea what about gcc changed since 2008

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:10:14 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Those are the libgcc routines that do 64-bit multiplication and
division on 32-bit systems.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:10:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Remember to link with $(gcc --print-libgcc-file-name).

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:13:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hey! I think that might be the bit I could never get to work on my
machine.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:15:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That's in the makefile...

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:15:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

GCC_LIB := $(shell $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -print-libgcc-file-name)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.828
Time: Sat Dec 10 22:17:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

make V=1, see what it's actually passing
(or maybe it's make V= - I can never remember)

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:00:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Whedon#Dialogue

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:05:32 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

?

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:05:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Why is this so detailed. (aka "Oh, Wikipedia")

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:06:08 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

There are "Buffy studies" classes at universities. Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:11:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, remctl-server depends on an inetd? Why... doesn't fingerd?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:11:51 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:12:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:16:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

There should be an XML encoding for XML.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:17:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:17:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

<[CDATA
?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:19:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

<xml>
  <tag name="html">
    <tag name="body">
      <attribute name="bgcolor" value="white" />
      ...
    </tag>
  </tag>
</xml>

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:19:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

"yeah, that's called XSLT"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:19:49 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

XSLT is totally more reasonable than that.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:20:22 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

If you need dynamic attributes, there's an attribute tag

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:20:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Sure, but it's not the norm.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:26:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I really don't know enough 6.003

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:27:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

talk to lizdenys

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:27:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Even for, like, doing sound.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:31:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

kcr: Is this intentional, or should I make debathena-fingerd depend
on openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:33:35 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

No, I think it's a bug.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:33:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

So yes, you should do that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:33:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

And file a bug against fingerd too?

Class: geofft Instance: best-idea-ever
Time: Sat Dec 10 23:43:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

617-25-CLYDE

Class: geofft Instance: darcs
Time: Sun Dec 11 02:46:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... did the "theory of patches" web page fall off the internet??

Class: geofft Instance: darcs
Time: Sun Dec 11 02:48:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Probably just as well. Keeps people from making the mistake of thinking
that darcs is a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: darcs
Time: Sun Dec 11 02:52:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Here, this looks reasonable
http://web.archive.org/web/20070105023024/http://www.darcs.net/manual/node8.html

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:19:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

How should you syntax-highlight a diff-diff?

Class: geofft Instance: face
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:19:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(stark) *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:41:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

how does rpm work

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:41:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

how is specfile formed?
how package get installed?

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:43:14 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The Sadist's Tumbler <phurst>

it was on the news this mroing, a geofft in [??] who install his three
packages

i'm too lazy to finish this

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:43:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:44:09 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The Stairwell <phurst>

they need to do way instain package manager

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:44:25 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

what is this

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:44:39 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: Guilt <phurst>

http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:45:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

achernya: ITYM "I'm F17 and what is this?"

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:46:16 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

pewpewpewp fighter jet

Class: geofft Instance: rpm
Time: Sun Dec 11 03:47:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is this thing?

Class: geofft Instance: lolz
Time: Sun Dec 11 05:45:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

tyger:/home/geofft/src/openafs geofft$ git log HEAD^ | grep Signed-off-by | sort -u
    Signed-off-by: Alejandro R. Sedeño <asedeno@mit.edu>
    Signed-off-by: Anders Kaseorg <andersk@mit.edu>
    Signed-off-by: Edward Z. Yang <ezyang@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: yaks-shaven
Time: Sun Dec 11 05:58:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

* http://ldpreload.com/ now delegates to a working OpenID provider
* I now know how to use Gerrit
* I now understand rpm triggers
* I know more about systemd

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec 11 07:34:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> home -> laundry

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 08:47:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We might actually end up with more Pi Day celebrations than Chinese
New Year celebrations. I'm impressed.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Dec 11 09:07:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Not one group with "Graduate" in their name applied for either locker
or storage space. Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Dec 11 09:08:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I guess a good number of those groups have space from their
department, but still

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 09:12:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... are you arguing that your religion is inherently more in line
with the GSC's funding principles? _really?_

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 09:22:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, "Foo on Ice" events might beat out both the Chinese New Year and
Pi Day events

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 09:31:26 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

only 3 with undergrad did and one of those is the UA which doesn't
really count for this and one has a grad version that applied that 
just doesn't have grad in the name.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Sun Dec 11 10:45:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Why does staying up 18 hours after waking up at 4 PM _hurt_, but it's
totally reasonable if I woke up at 6 AM or 10 AM or something?

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Sun Dec 11 10:49:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, what is it with SIPB and dubstep

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Sun Dec 11 10:49:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I guess it's the new indie rock"

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 11:13:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I didn't even know there was a west campus, I thought it was just
east and northwest"

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 11:13:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

_Someone_'s never been an undergrad here

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 11:19:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

omg omg someone is asking for a bouncy house as a capital item

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.funding
Time: Sun Dec 11 11:23:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I wonder how much our willingness to fund room reservations in grad
dorms that charge for reserving rooms impacts the supply/demand curve
there, and if we refused to pay for those rooms whether they'd become
free for student groups ...

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 13:19:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hahaha lol.

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 13:19:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't, like, Westgate in the Southwest?

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 13:19:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I've never been an undergrad here!

Class: geofft Instance: gsc.roomq
Time: Sun Dec 11 13:21:11 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You hang around undergrad groups though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec 11 14:07:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> W20

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Dec 11 21:07:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

sightings?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Dec 11 21:36:08 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

"probably still sleeping"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:33:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

gruh, awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:33:23 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh hey. We were going to poke you.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:34:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Wait, what? Why is my phone going "no service"?
(I was asleep in W20-5)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:34:49 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

"that explains why I didn't find you anyhwere on W20-4"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:35:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Sorry. I didn't realize my phone was acting up :(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 01:37:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

Good morning.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:11:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, in the few minutes since I woke up I appear to have locked myself out
of the UA office? How did I pull that off

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:27:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

also both the SIPB and UA offices are empty :(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:28:02 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

Sorry, we all left the office ~1 hour ago

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:36:22 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I can et you into sipb.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:36:29 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(Does that help?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:36:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Well, I'm in SIPB now, so "no", but the problem was that I'd locked
my wallet inside 401. I had my keys.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:37:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I figured. Ah well.
Janitors or CPs.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:37:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yeah, that worked.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:37:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The most recent comment was just lamenting on the loneliness.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:38:12 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So are you saying we should ahve woken you up? We talked about it
numerous times at 7,8,9,10,11,12

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 02:58:38 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Show me where forever ends... <lapentab>

Then again it was rather amusing watching the evolution of the
position of your laptop relative to you over the course of a few hours

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 04:14:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Dec 12 08:22:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Anne of ';Drop Tables

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Dec 12 08:23:52 2011 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: In 1948, at the request of a dying boy, baseball legend Babe Ruth ate seventy-five hot dogs, then died of hot dog poisoning. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Dec 12 08:24:41 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Dec 12 08:28:34 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"A poor young girl, occasional open-source contributor, gets hired for
her first summer internship by accident and kept on by the senior
engineer. This is the story of how she came to blossom in the field of
webapp security."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Dec 12 08:28:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 12 09:14:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://www.jesusneedsnewpr.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Judas.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: i-can't-type-today
Time: Mon Dec 12 09:42:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Almost signed an e-mail as "UA Finance Fobard"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:09:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

what is "mic check"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:14 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In the context of OWS, presumably?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: i've everything to show, i've everything to hide <jessiehl>

Someone says a thing, anyone who can hear it repeats it in unison to
make sure that others can hear.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

It's a call-and-response human microphone system.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

OWS wasn't allowed sound amplification equipment without a permit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:10:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay. (I thought it was that but didn't think that was the name of it)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:11:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: all your letters in the sand cannot heal me like your hand <jessiehl>

It gets requested by the original speaker shouting "Mic check!"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:11:18 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: next@
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:14:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... I wonder if rothhaar gets the irony in forwarding a crime
bulletin with "this didn't happen in Next, but, lock your doors" to
the dorm

Class: geofft Instance: next@
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:16:52 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Is this in reference to Anna Tang or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: next@
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:17:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was wondering what dorm that crime bulletin was referring to...

Class: geofft Instance: next@
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:19:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

kdrinkwa: That's the irony, yes

Class: geofft Instance: next@
Time: Mon Dec 12 11:30:03 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I'm particularly amused about "desk should be more vigilant" when the
description of the perpetrator sounds like a fellow student...

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Mon Dec 12 12:06:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i "We think your budget is imaginary and you should be more
realistic, so are funding -100i% of your request"

Class: geofft Instance: finboard
Time: Mon Dec 12 12:06:41 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do you actually say that?  Because you should.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 13:50:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Oracle America" sounds very ... patriotic, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 13:51:27 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Certainly more patriotic than OC Acquisition LLC, which is the legal
entity that acquired Ksplice.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 13:53:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yeah, that sounds like a bad TV show about teenaged Ferengi or something

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 14:27:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

Between Oracle and its various incorporated units and subsidiaries,
the actual name of the company changes a lot.  

When I went to work there they initially sent me a packet of offer
paperwork to sign labeled "Oracle", then emailed me saying that they
had sent me a new packet that had updated to "Oracle USA Inc.", and
that I should sign the new one instead
(I think this may have been fallout from the PeopleSoft acquisition)

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 14:29:05 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

It was fallout from the PSFT acquisition. I got W2's from Oracle, and
Oracle USA as a result.

Another year, I got 2 W2's from Oracle over the Sun acquisition.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 14:29:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Yeah, Oracle America, Inc. (abbreviated OAI by Oracle's finance
people) is the new hotness.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 14:57:16 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does the company get renamed with every major acquisition or something?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:03:41 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

But every 7 years it loops?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:04:43 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Haha re: the fifth rule of Ksplice acquisition.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:06:21 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Haha re: the fifth rule of Ksplice acquisition.

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:07:36 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

"Once you have their money, never give it back."

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:07:48 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Actually I didn't have a clever Ksplice-style Ferengi Rule of
Acquisition ready to go.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:10:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

A running kernel is a running kernel... until a better one comes along.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:16:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Rough consensus and *continually* running code."

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:16:45 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Or s/code/kernel/)

Class: geofft Instance: sunlight
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:18:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

The sun went straight from morning to evening and skipped the daytime :(

Class: geofft Instance: sunlight
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:19:19 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: There is no gravity -- the earth sucks.
 <rnjacobs>

"Welcome to winter"
"Just [ ][9] more days 'til solstice!"

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:50:52 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

re: regularly changing their legal entity, Oracle has some strange
legal practices.  I've been meaning to ask their legal department
what the legal significance is of having everyone sign every document
as "Authorized Signatory" instead of using a real title like
basically every other company does

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:52:10 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Not having the document invalidated when the title turns
out to be inaccurate?</guessing>

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:54:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

From what I've read about corporate law, it's more common that the
problem is that someone signs a document that they shouldn't sign,
and that person's company tries to get the contract invalidated based
on the argument that the other side should have expected someone more
senior to sign for that kind of agreement.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:55:44 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Makes sense, I've often wondered about that when signing
things for streambase.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:56:24 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

If the title signing on the other side is not typical for the kind of
agreement that you are signing, you can find that you aren't able to
enforce the agreement.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:56:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Dude, I do not believe donating to the unrestricted fund is useful to
"Help keep MIT extraordinary!".

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:57:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

==

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 15:59:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==, now that I just got the mail.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:00:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Though, I am "under the impression" that most unrestricted funding goes
to financial aid.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:01:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

That's easy to check at
http://vpf.mit.edu/site/content/download/15852/60105/file/FY11%20Treasurer's%20Report.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:01:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What are the worthwhile funds to give money to?

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:01:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Besides, say, SIPB)

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:01:40 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Cycle & Wheel <kchen>

I give to various student groups and the Big Jimmy fund.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:04:17 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Total financial aid from Institute sources in FY2011 - $240 million
in tuition support, $17 million in stipends, $26 million in student
salaries. Dunno how that maps to "money spent from assets", which are
outlined in section K (page 36).

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:05:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I assume the thing that giving.mit.edu calls the "Campaign for
Students" is not what I think it is

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:06:10 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Clover And Boys Run <kchen>

cfs is named after giving.mit.edu's Campaign for Students.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:06:33 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:07:01 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

In FY2011, the endowment had $9.8 billion in principal, of which $2.9
billion was unrestricted principal. Separately, MIT had $1.7 billion
in "other funds", of which $579 million is just "other funds available
for current expenses".

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:07:06 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hrm... can I give to MIT through Community Giving?  I bet not.

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:07:49 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

So if you give to the Unrestricted Fund, you're probably growing a
pool of $580 million for misc current expenses, [which is part of
$1.7 billion other funds]. You might also be growing a pool of $2.9
billion unrestricted principal, [which is part of a $10 billion
endowment].

Class: geofft Instance: alum
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:08:50 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

And every year the Institute spends $240 million on tuition support,
which I think actually includes TAships, and RAships along with
Institute scholarships given to needy students. So a $1 contribution
to the general fund MIGHT go to a scholarship, I think that's what the
treasurer's report suggests.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:27:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... Did you just call "Harvard" "Havarti"? Is that a lame pun, or
your computer's spell check going crazy?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:27:20 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

autocorrect?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:29:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Tastier than Harvard, though!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:29:51 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Eh, I prefer MITerey-Jack

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 16:31:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hi, Jack.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 12 17:03:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

afk

Class: geofft Instance: remeyer.q
Time: Mon Dec 12 18:45:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"FINBOARD SLASH IS ME KILLING PEOPLE."

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Dec 12 18:57:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, it was in fact a typo. From later in the thread: "At least it
was a cheesy joke."

Class: geofft Instance: W20-4
Time: Mon Dec 12 19:03:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

No one expects the ASA Inquisition!

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Dec 12 19:04:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Thousands of online accounts are hijacked every day. If you re-use
your Gmail password at other websites, change it now.  Learn more Hide"

++

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 19:41:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Rachel is above the law!

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:21:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

argh motion not verb argh

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:22:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

"It's as much a verb as gesture!"

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:25:42 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

stop jhawking

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:26:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'd be okay with "motioning", really

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:28:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

ttants: GaMIT, how-to-GAMIT

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:36:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We're going past suspending the bylaws and _superseding_ them.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-senate
Time: Mon Dec 12 20:52:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Sweet, Finboard allocations turned into bylaws...?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 13 01:04:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> shower -> half an hour on 6.892 -> half an hour grading 6.858 -> "nap"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Dec 13 04:09:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

hahahahahaha I just found ScalaByExample.pdf in my homedir hahahahaha
I remember when I was unhosed enough to think "you know what I'll do
in my spare time? learn another programming language" ahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 13 13:51:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> shower -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Dec 13 15:17:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

UNIX I hate you

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Dec 13 15:18:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have a Windows ME disc you can borrow...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Dec 13 15:18:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

That would work better, it wouldn't pretend to be a secure OS

Class: geofft Instance: lvm
Time: Tue Dec 13 16:13:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"So what happens if you crate a VG named 'mapper' or 'pty'?"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Dec 13 16:42:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Whoa they fixed the setuid rlimit_nproc hole

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Dec 13 16:44:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(by setting a process flag when you setuid() instead of failing it,
and causing the pending execve() to fail instead of the setuid())

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Dec 13 16:59:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also apparently you can echo -n "lol" > /proc/self/comm

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 13 18:02:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

\o/! \o/!
\o/! \o/! \o/!
For the Lord God omnipotent reigneth!
\o/! \o/! \o/! \o/!

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Tue Dec 13 18:37:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Setting up Ubuntu and Fedora partitions/chroots/something is
seriously on my list of todos over break

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 13 18:47:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: lem
Time: Tue Dec 13 21:51:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... did you guys really use Constant Contact?

Class: geofft Instance: lem
Time: Tue Dec 13 21:53:53 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Nobody ever listens to poor Zathras." --Zathras <pquimby>

I have no clue what your talking about.

Class: geofft Instance: lem
Time: Tue Dec 13 21:54:23 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Forget hardare protection. That's so 70's." --Kaashoek <pquimby>

*you're

Class: geofft Instance: lem
Time: Tue Dec 13 21:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:15:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Lutheran Episcopal Ministry at MIT <jdonohue@MIT.EDU>
To: geofft@mit.edu
Subject: Festival of Lessons and Carols, December 14

...

[SafeUnsubscribe_Footer_Logo_New.png] [visitor.constantcontact.com]
[CC_Footer_Logo_New.png] [www.constantcontact.com] This email was
sent to geofft@mit.edu by jdonohue@mit.edu | Update Profile/Email
Address [visitor.constantcontact.com] | Instant removal with
SafeUnsubscribe [visitor.constantcontact.com]™ | Privacy Policy
[ui.constantcontact.com]. Lutheran Episcopal Ministry at MIT | 40
Massachusetts Ave. | W11 | Cambridge | MA | 02139 [p1x1.gif]

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:26:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Aww, our old roommates came and got their stuff, so we now have no
TV, sound system, Rock Band, or PlayStations

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:26:20 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Aw.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:26:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I put my monitor where the TV was, because the room looks weird
without it

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:26:34 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Clearly you should have bought jdreed's TV while you had the chance.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:26:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Not like I'm going to watch TV in the next week

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:33:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I may have too many copies of the class VM.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Dec 13 23:34:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I can account for three of them. I'm not sure what the fourth is

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 03:34:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Hm, I bet I was allergic to those leftovers, wasn't I

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 03:40:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm glad my allergies are relatively mild...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 10:40:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

blah. not entirely feeling well, but -> class anyway

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 10:51:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Also, -> potentially the last day of class in my life

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 10:51:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"that went by awfully quickly"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:08:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

crap, pesto

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:09:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

wat?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:10:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It sometimes is made out of nuts.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:10:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Typically. :/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:10:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I didn't realize that my breakfast had pesto before buying it, and
I'm too hungry to not eat it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:10:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... mostly because my stomach is being sad from the nuts I ate last
night

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:32:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We are three presentations in and we've already used node.js and Haskell

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 11:40:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

lol. In response to a question about how practical their system is,
"The only real Haskell program I use is XMonad"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:13:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh right, Europe actually uses SSL

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:15:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, I think a number of European countries even issue smartcards
with a client cert in them or something?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:16:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i canonical participants in a conversation: Alice, Bob, China, Iran

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:19:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, Belgium does that.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:19:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:19:40 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

oh, wait, no, double misread.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:20:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Is anyone working on SSL via DNSSEC, or did that get quashed for
political reasons? (Or technical ones?)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:24:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I think that's still going on? Adam Langley had a demo thing for
Chrome somewhat recently that sent the DNSSEC data as part of the
handshake.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:26:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Doing it in a side-channel is more-or-less a deal-breaker. You can't
block the verification on a side-channel.)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:30:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

So, these look very much like nuts, but I'm not having a reaction to
them. Weird

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:31:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Do pine nuts not count as nuts?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:32:12 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

they're actually seeds, right?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:32:57 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Aren't nuts seeds in general?  (If not, what are they?)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:33:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Your pesto either had pine nuts or walnuts in all likelihood.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

So... it would be unlikely taht you're good with pine nuts but not
pesto.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

No, this is the pesto I'm talking about

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

ah oops

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I just wasn't eating in class.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:48 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, i guess technically nuts are seeds but peanuts are legumes, not
nuts

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:34:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I'm not sure what I ate overnight but it was Thai? leftover fried
rice, so "peanuts", which are known bad

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:35:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yeah, peanuts are not actually nuts, but there are nuts other than
peanuts I'm allergic to (e.g. almonds).

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:40:55 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Aren't only actually a small number of things that we call nuts
actually technically nuts?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 12:47:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

http://www.imperialviolet.org/2011/11/29/certtransparency.html

There's also this thing he's doing which isn't DNSSEC, but it is
another attempt fix the CA mess.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:05:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Debathena should do that"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:09:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

.. wait, replacing Athena with Chromebooks chained to the clusters
would be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:15:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“You must descend into the Underworld,” the lion says. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

All kiosk mode, all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:16:09 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But the work waits... I'm alive at last... and I'm full of joy! <eichin>

that'd be a reason to get a decent web zephyr built :-)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:24:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wubwubwubathena

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:25:14 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahahahah

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:37:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"New rule for next year: no FUSE"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:38:04 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:38:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

This is the... third? fourth? filesystem

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:47:30 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: .the .product will make you happy
 <rnjacobs>

(stark)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(fruit)#Culinary_definition_and_uses

The important thing that they don't get quite as far as saying is that the
more closely related the plants are, the more likely they'll both contain a
sufficiently-similar allergen.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 13:58:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Aaaah. They combined zoobar with FarmVille

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 14:18:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Oh great, they're hacking Charlie Cards"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 14:18:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Don't be a Yuran Lu.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 14 14:19:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Don't worry, if anyone's suing the course, it'll be Google, not the MBTA

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:28:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"there appears to be some sort of posterng violation"

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:28:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:28:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"depending on how you define 'poster'"

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:29:02 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I guess you'd better rally your postering rule enforcement troops,
then.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:34:42 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

?

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:35:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 3 By 1 Transfer The Column <kchen>

I noticed something about the infinite being prettier elsewhere on
zephyr, so it sounds like a hack.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:35:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sets In Motion <kchen>

(But I have not seen whatever this is.)

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:36:20 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: You're like Xena in that you're no longer a cyclops! - apfarr <wings>

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/mit-is-invaded

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:36:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Brogan E King <brogan>

A large army of plastic army men seems to have invaded

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:36:48 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Now we just need to get these old soldiers to start talking to us.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:39:31 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

You should totally send a joke postering violation notice. What is it,
$50 for the first soldier and double for each subsequent soldier?

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:39:41 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

dude, Jack Florey can't afford that

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:39:48 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

That's why it would be a joke.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:40:03 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Come up with some clever wording about how this wraps all the way into
imaginary dollars.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:40:25 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I've seen E. coli more competent than you! - Internet <wings>

Make the fee payable in quantities of army men

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:44:06 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/as13tow.html seems mildly relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:44:50 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I think that a reply invoice was sent, according to the book where I
read about this, but I don't recall details.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:46:00 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Reminds me of the customs form the astronauts filled out upon landing,
where for "country you just came from" they just put "MOON". It was
pretty cute.

Class: geofft Instance: infinite
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:48:14 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Oh, the reply was apparently bills for ferrying the Apollo 10, 11, and
12 LMs to the moon.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 15:56:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I need more caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 14 17:16:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> LEM

Class: geofft Instance: lem
Time: Wed Dec 14 18:38:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

caroling in lobby 7, come join us

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Dec 14 19:40:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1998/1/29/mits-phi-kappa-sigma-may-not/

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Dec 14 19:43:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Pro tip: list your MIT username, not your Gmail username

Class: geofft Instance: 401
Time: Wed Dec 14 20:01:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It's officially Christmas, 491 is bombarding us with carols instead
of folk dance music

Class: geofft Instance: 401
Time: Wed Dec 14 20:04:15 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Fa la la la la, motherfuckers.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Dec 14 23:29:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

erasure (of bisexuals)
Erasure (the Robot Unicorn Attack people)

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Dec 14 23:29:31 2011 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Dec 14 23:41:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Eraserhead? But I just

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:36:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

blhhhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:37:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:37:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

just woke up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:37:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(and showered and got to campus)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:38:44 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

You're well ahead of me then

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:39:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"yeah, but I missed my 1pm meeting and I still have grading to do"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:43:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

wait why does water-buffalo not ping?

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:45:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

water-buffalo@xvm-console isn't implying to me that the domain
doesn't exist...

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:45:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, there, it's back

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 15 13:58:33 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I just finished the "showered" part, still working on "breakfast" and
"get to campus".

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:05:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We should trademark Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:05:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(given that we've trademarked Athena, Discuss, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:07:26 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Just start typing TM.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:31:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

If we have gay/lesbian square dance clubs, why don't we have hipster
square dance clubs?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:31:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Or furry square dance clubs?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:31:18 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

"ironic left"
"ironic right"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:32:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

roomq: "How would kinky square dancing work?"
       "You have a dom, and you have a bunch of subs who follow the dom's
        instructions... oh wait"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:32:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

ttants:
Dom
Document Object Model

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:33:14 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Little Red Wagon, a slingshot, and a Gund. <eichin>

"slightly more leather/less clothing than normal square dancing"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:42:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Are we ... reimplementing Khan?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:42:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://k12videos.mit.edu/

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:42:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I think becoming not-an-undergrad automatically gives you several points in general competency" - zhangc <pbaranay>

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:43:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

pbaranay: Someone really needs to make a giant banner saying that for
Commencement

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Dec 15 15:44:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

== geofft

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:04:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

afarrell: *talks about relationships*
geofft: *talks about relationships*
remeyer: *repeated double-facepalms*

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:04:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Dairy is poison. Tasty, wonderful, creamy, delicious poison." - cshiley <pbaranay>

Why are the three of you in a room together?

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:04:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:04:43 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: *hugs the pbear* - fawkes <pbaranay>

Any pair of those three makes sense, but -- yeah, but Rachel's not in
SIPB.

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:04:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"It was in the student center"

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:05:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We went to SIPB after eating lunch. adehnert's here, just asleep

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Thu Dec 15 16:05:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

<insert venn trigram with UA, SIPB, and APO>

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Dec 15 17:12:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

git add
sudo aptitude install

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:02:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Your multimonitor support sucks

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:15:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Is there a good way to implement producer/consumer via a directory?
(Specifically, consumer, on the assumption that dropping a file in
the directory suffices for producer, especially if you don't care
about order.) "for i in *" pre-calculates *

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:16:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I have a single process that runs for i in *, and I want to
spin up more instances, mostly

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:16:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You want...multi-consumer?

Class: geofft Instance: sh.d
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:16:27 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I was stymied last week by the fact that while 'cat *' precalculates
'*', it does not preemptively open all of them.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:17:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You might be able to do something with inotifywatch

Class: geofft Instance: sh.d
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:17:12 2011 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Make doesn't pre-calculate its wildcards, so I suspect you could build
something out of that.

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:17:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

broder: Yes

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:17:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You realized that you need locking to make that work, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:22:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

NFS locking suffices, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sh
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:22:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

e.g., each process makes a tempdir of the form .foo, and then does an
"mv file .foo/" to claim it. If the mv fails, then it grabs the next file

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:23:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Are they _trying_ to get us to not re-elect Obama?

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:25:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

i,i "Who would you /rather/ elect? Mr. Trump?"

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:25:27 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

what happened?

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:25:53 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

obama signed the indefinite detention bill.

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:26:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

No, not that.

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:26:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oh, yeah. fuck that shit

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:26:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

From: The White House <info@messages.whitehouse.gov>
Subject: Response to Petition on the Abolishment of the
Transportation Security Administration

Response to Petition on the Abolishment of the Transportation
Security Administration

By John Pistole, the Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration

Thank you for participating in the We the People platform, we respect
the right of the petitioners to be heard and value the feedback we
receive from travelers who share their experiences – good or bad –
with us. The men and women of the Transportation Security
Administration (TSA) have a challenging, but critical mission, and
they take their jobs very seriously. TSA understands that the
terrorist threat remains real and continues to evolve, as evidenced
by the attempted terrorist attack on Christmas Day 2009 and the
disrupted air cargo bomb plot last year.

Why TSA Exists. [...]

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:27:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I don't really care about the specific decisions. I am willing to
trust he had good reasons.

But it bothers me that every single response out of the Obama
administration's "We the People" thing has been a response of the
form "No, you're wrong, this is why" with no new information,
generally written by someone we want to get rid of

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:27:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(the marijuana response was written by the drug czar, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:28:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

This demonstrates that the administration doesn't actually care,
instead of caring and reaching something I disagree with

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:44:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(vinagre:23820): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_ref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed

(vinagre:23820): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:44:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i "and nothing of value was lost"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:46:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Pasadena Pasakatabi

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:50:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Running 3 VMs is kind of stressing my laptop

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Dec 15 18:51:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(1 Athena install, 2 grade VMs that are generally running Firefox)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:01:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Right, I should buy plane tickets, or something

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:01:35 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

++

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:14:09 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Aren't the petitions generally about things that are actually
the purview of the legislature?

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:16:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Don't implement the TSA like that" and "Don't fight the war on drugs
like that" is a complaint to the executive. They've properly said
"This is the judiciary's problem, not ours" once or twice before

Class: geofft Instance: whitehouse
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:16:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

(there are a couple of "Get this guy out of prison" petition)

Class: geofft Instance: 32-G9
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:36:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I swear this floor grows wireless routers like weeds

Class: geofft Instance: 32-G9
Time: Thu Dec 15 19:36:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Harvest them and sell them for a profit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:08:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It occurs to me that Google probably derives way more benefit from
Chrome from having a seat at the major browsers table than by having
any significant fraction of people use Chrome directly

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:14:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Well, the latter is necessary for the former, but yeah. Life is
certainly nice for folks like Adam Langley who want to improve SSL
when Google has resources, a browser, and a few moderately popular
web services.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:15:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Right, but they more care about people using Chrome so that they can
get IE and Firefox to implement stuff, rather than because people
will use Chrome

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:16:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Well, I dunno how all the perks rank against each other, but this
one's probably significan sure. The story is that Chrome got started
after they hired a bunch of Mozilla folks to sponsor thierFirefox work.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:35:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ahahaha awww. Iceweasel is having trouble putting its popup dialog
directly under the title bar

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:35:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

For some reason the way it computes where the title bar is depends on
the monitor. I have two monitors left and right, and the left monitor doesn't start at the origin

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:36:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, this is gnome3's fault

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:36:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

My investigation has actually led me to suspect that ~nothing works if
you don't have a monitor at the origin

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:36:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

If I move my window to the primary monitor, the dialog box being
dragged with it snaps to the top of that primary monitor

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Thu Dec 15 20:37:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It works other than that.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Dec 15 21:51:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

blanche unsipb

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Thu Dec 15 21:52:22 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

looks like ismith and danjared had some fun?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 21:57:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

remeyer to adehnert: "I don't want to hear about how you bought
pregnancy tests"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 21:58:06 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Remember, ksplice does not yet support humans. - gdb <wings>

Wait wat

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 21:58:29 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: We will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. - Hitchhiker's Guide <wings>

The first thing that came to mind was "ESP" but I hope pregnancy tests
were not relevant there

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:03:14 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We actually try to keep a couple pregnancy tests on-hand.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:03:37 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We had our first Splash birth (Spark pregnancy) a couple years ago!

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:04:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Did you give them $30 for the delivery?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:04:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

On the condition that ESP keeps the baby for future terms?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.meeting.q
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:06:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nah, they're consumable.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:41:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

jhorkwitz

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Dec 15 22:48:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://lolbeavers.mit.edu/images/chancellorbullshit.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Dec 15 23:10:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I'm Jewish on my father's side."
"That doesn't count, right?"
"We're Reform, so anything counts."

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:48:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

You know you've made a serious mistake when your best idea for "okay,
how do I fix this" is "add ramen"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:49:12 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

Locker unknown.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:49:19 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We should fix that.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:49:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ramen or ramen with the flavor packet?

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:50:14 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

"Hello, ASA Large Event Fund, we would like funding for our
activity. Our expected attendance is 750 people. We require
$50 in support."

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:53:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:53:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I left out the flavor packet.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:55:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

yeah, that's not that bad. you see, ramen is actually a real food. it's just
that what you usually get is the equivalent of canned tuna versus nice
tuna

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Fri Dec 16 00:55:20 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Yeah! It was in MASS EFFECT 2!

Class: geofft Instance: ++
Time: Fri Dec 16 03:34:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

https://lwn.net/Articles/472112/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 16 03:58:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:45:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I was walking by Capuano's office this morning. I had to resist the
temptation to stick my head in the door and go "VOTE AGAINST SOPA"
and keep walking

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:46:11 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

You really should have.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:46:15 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not like he'd have been there, Congress is still in session.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:46:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I realize

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:46:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Maybe I'll do that on Monday or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:47:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm actually looking forward to you being crotchety old cruft." - glasser <jessiehl>

Has Capuano stated an opinion one way or the other on it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:48:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"I don't know, that would involve paying attention to politics"

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:50:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

MAIL / INBOX / imap.po12  2011-12-16 12:50  (po12.mit.edu)
    You have new mail in INBOX.

    From: Jimmy Wales <donate@wikimedia.org>
    Subject: Please read: Advertising isn't evil but it doesn't belong in Wikipedia
    To: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@MIT.EDU>

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:51:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:51:56 2011 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Yeah, I should probably donate at some point.

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:51:57 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

It does, however, belong in your inbox?

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:52:14 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

I actually buy their argument for why they shouldn't have ads. But
"evil"?

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:53:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, I think I donated, but I got a 403...?

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:53:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

I think there's a reason that I donated after reading Brandon Harris'
appeal, and not after reading Jimmy Wales'.

Class: geofft Instance: really
Time: Fri Dec 16 12:54:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay, got an e-mail confirmation. i,i "Take my money and shut up"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Dec 16 13:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Why do we have libreoffice-core, libreoffice-base, and libreoffice-base-core?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Dec 16 13:33:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "more base than your package has room for"

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:34:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"My recommendation for future years of 6.858: Don't allow projects
that use FUSE."

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:35:00 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

So, can we get a 6.858 student to write all of SIPB's FUSE-related
ponies?

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:35:37 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I wish I never wished a wand of wishing.  (Wishful thinking.)
 <rnjacobs>

... what's wrong with FUSE?

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:35:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

1. Ew.
2. python-fuse

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:36:34 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: This corroded robot is clutching a mitten.
 <rnjacobs>

Hm. Ok, I found the C bindings not unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: student.q
Time: Fri Dec 16 14:55:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, what's wrong with python-fuse?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 16 15:31:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/Pickup-Line-Scientist/

Class: geofft Instance: christmas
Time: Fri Dec 16 16:28:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Okay this is kind of the best Christmas pageant
http://youtu.be/kWq60oyrHVQ

Class: geofft Instance: christmas
Time: Fri Dec 16 16:33:48 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

that is really really cute

Class: geofft Instance: tooltime
Time: Fri Dec 16 17:40:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh cool, the rt script is actually quite up-to-date

Class: geofft Instance: tooltime
Time: Fri Dec 16 17:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

    RT uses an SQL-like syntax to specify object selection constraints.
    See the <RT:...> documentation for details.
    
    (XXX: I'm going to have to write it, aren't I?)

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Dec 16 18:23:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"Dear Rebecca, you are a disgrace to the family name. Sincerely, Sirius."

Class: geofft Instance: 491
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:20:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Two clarinets (?) playing "O Holy Night", and a crying baby

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:36:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

What determines the screen resolutions that a qemu client believes
exists?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:37:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Basically, in theory, nothing should be preventing me from
arbitrarily resizing my window and getting the VM to follow (I guess
there's no monitor-resize spec in VGA, but you could either resize in
the VM arbitrarily and have your client follow, or remove/restore the
monitor with a different size)

Class: geofft Instance: else.zsigs
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:41:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Bronoit Mandelbro

Class: geofft Instance: stuff-i-almost-typed
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:45:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

sudo logout

Class: geofft Instance: stuff-i-almost-typed
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:45:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's harmless, right?

Class: geofft Instance: stuff-i-almost-typed
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:46:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Given that the `logout` I was trying to run was a shell alias, yes,
but it was also dumb

Class: geofft Instance: stuff-i-almost-typed
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:46:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

i,i sudo cd /root

Class: geofft Instance: stuff-i-almost-typed
Time: Fri Dec 16 19:46:55 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Someone should write "sudo considered harmful" based on this instance.

Class: geofft Instance: productivity
Time: Fri Dec 16 20:29:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I feel like I have about... 5 hours of focus per week

Class: geofft Instance: productivity
Time: Fri Dec 16 20:29:59 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You need 35 more.

Class: geofft Instance: productivity
Time: Fri Dec 16 20:30:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

<asian-mother-hat>Are you eating well? Exercising? Sleeping
enough?</asian-mother-hat>

Class: geofft Instance: productivity
Time: Fri Dec 16 20:31:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

*shrug* Close enough

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:00:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

You have a point, but, *runs away*

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:01:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's this about?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:02:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

https://lists.csail.mit.edu/pipermail/csail-related/2011-December/006850.html

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:02:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

"who wants to bet on when the thread will explode"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:03:16 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Sometimes I wonder what I'm missing out on by not having gone to
Wesleyan, Brown, or really a Traditional Liberal-Arts school.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:09:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

iptables
lapentables

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Dec 16 21:09:42 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Geoffrey, you may have a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:14:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

manage.py shell ftw

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:15:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Best membership definition ever: "Current active members"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:15:40 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...that seems reasonable, what makes it best?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:16:29 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What are you doing?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:16:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

We're evaluating membership definitions to make sure nobody's being
discriminating or otherwise dumb

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:17:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

so manage.py shell, and
>>> for i in GroupMembershipConfirmation.objects.all():
>>>     print i.group, i.membership_definition

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:18:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You're reading all of them?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:19:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I read like the last several cycles of Finboard definitions during
the meeting yesterday. Rachel's looking at all of them from the new
registration thing now

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:33:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I think we might slowly break Rachel's Excel addiction!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:43:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

... wait, Python confuses me. How are you supposed to write Unicode
strings to a file?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Do you open the file with encoding="UTF-8" or something?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:15 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

are you write u"strings"?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Or do you just call .encode("UTF-8") on each string?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:42 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

IIRC, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That works too, I've done both? Not sure which is right. i,i use
python3 and don't worry about it.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:44:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Alex: Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:45:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

achernya: "Patches welcome"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:45:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Do you open the file with encoding="UTF-8" or something?

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:46:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Oh, is that a thing that you set?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:47:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

>>> open("/tmp/moo", "w", encoding="UTF-8")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'encoding' is an invalid keyword argument for this function

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:47:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

>>> open("/tmp/moo", "w").encoding = "UTF-8"
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: readonly attribute

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:49:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently the encoding keyword argument is a Python 3 thing

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:51:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think there's a way to set it when opening a file. I don't remember what the
argument is.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:51:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently
>>> print >>f, unicode(whatever).encode("UTF-8")
is the best I can figure out?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:52:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Apparently you want codecs.open.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Dec 16 22:54:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Yay! Now that we have successfully fought Unicode, we might be able
to figure out what student groups are up to

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 17 02:37:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

a student information board that's part of a procession

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:03:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Ahahaaha why did I think svn merge was a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:04:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

because git.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:53:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

Sigh, my hard drive is making noises

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:53:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

It feels awfully soon for that, but I have been, like, using it on
SafeRide

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:55:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you making backups?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:56:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

No. I perhaps should; I don't have _serious_ state on here.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:58:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Please read: A personal attack from Wikipedia sysop Brandon Harris <geofft>

I tend to take the "everything interesting should be sync'd to AFS,
Github, or another server" approach to dealing with backups

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Dec 17 03:59:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

i,i
https://groups.google.com/group/linux.dev.kernel/msg/76ae734d543e396d?pli=1

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:05:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

oops. -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:24:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

MIT has five stars with 122 reviews.

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:24:29 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

i,i "Great food, A+, would enroll again"

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:24:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

s/Great food/Great food available off campus/, certainly?

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:25:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

"Yes, that's why I had an i,i"

Class: geofft Instance: bc
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:25:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

What is the area of Burton-Conner labeled RLSLP currently being used for?

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:54:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Is it overkill to have a script to propagate templates/scrips from a
git repo (so that you can have some common scrips and some
customizations on top that you keep rebasing to take updates to the
common scrips)?

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 14:56:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wish you could define one git remote as a filter-branch of another.

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:11:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I want my own queue to play with

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:12:04 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's called Debathena.

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:12:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I guess nobody will _actually_ mind if I remove everyone else from the Ccs

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:12:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Ahahaha
From: "{$Transaction->CreatorObj->RealName}" <{$Transaction->CreatorObj->EmailAddress}>
Reply-To: "scripts.mit.edu team" <scripts@mit.edu>
RT-Attach-Message: yes
Cc: scripts@mit.edu
RT-Send-Bcc: scripts-mtg@charon.mit.edu

{my $foo = $Transaction->Content();
$foo =~ s|^/set .*\n||gm;
$foo =~ s|-- \nEvan Broder\nClient Support Services\nMIT Information Services and Technology|-- \nEvan Broder\nSIPB Scripts
Services\nhttp://scripts.mit.edu|m;
$foo}

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:13:13 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which queue?

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:13:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

scripts

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:13:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's not that terrible, unless I'm missing something.

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:25:40 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I had a proposal for how to deal with that more generically that I
couldn't get anybody to buy into

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:25:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But I don't remember what it was - I suspect it was that the queue
should add the footer for everybody, and then none of us would set a sig

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:27:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(On the RCC/OLC queues, that is)

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:28:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Does it suffice to have some people set their sig to
-- 
Geoffrey Thomas
SIG
and have perl deal with that?

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:29:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That would work too, but all of those plans require all queues involved
to buy-in and I think either Stuart or Jon nixed the idea

Class: geofft Instance: rt
Time: Sat Dec 17 15:29:17 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, it looks really awkward if the Perl isn't running with some queue...

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:23:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"What happened to you"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:24:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Oh, I have balls now"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:27:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBUWUB <geofft>

"What the hell happened to this office since I left? It looks just
like you"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:35:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

geofft: "You're in town, that's what you do when you're in town, you
socialize by signing people's GPG keys"
lizdenys: "I want better friends."

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:36:59 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Forget hardare protection. That's so 70's." --Kaashoek <pquimby>

geofft... you're going to have an interesting time in the real world.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.oq
Time: Sat Dec 17 17:56:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Going on /b/ for me is the cheaper and less physically damaging
 version of getting absolutely drunk."
"You don't drink with the right people."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:20:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Dumb question... why can't we make the kernel capable of mounting
multiple partitions from parsing the command line?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:21:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

boot root=/dev/sda1 mount=/usr:/dev/sda1 quiet

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:21:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And then all the dumb people without initrds and with separate /usr
can be happy

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:23:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(er, /usr:/dev/sda2, obviously)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:23:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

you really want a uuid there

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:23:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Sure, you can take anything that root= can take

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:24:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

root=UUID=0dd007a8-9b10-417b-817d-c79b4a86cb08 mount=/usr:UUID=d8ea0123-19ba-43d8-8cbc-902db8eb7413 quiet

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:25:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I doubt whether the kernel people would take
that.  (I expect them to say "use an initrd, you freak")

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:25:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I will buy that LKML will look at us funny. I do think that this
would be a reasonable compromise for the Debian kernel team to take

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:25:47 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Does...the Debian kernel team believe in compromises that don't involve
shipping an lkml kernel?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:26:10 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Actually, I want all those people to get with the
program and use initrds.  Or get run over by busses.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:26:17 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

initrds suck

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:26:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Not using initrds in this day and age also suck

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:26:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What's an initrd?</BSD Troll>

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:26:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They add about 5-8 seconds to your boot time to do work that will just
be redone by the non-initrd system

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:27:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

kcr: Apparently there are people whose MIPS-powered coffee machine
with a 387 coprocessor just doesn't support initrds

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:27:57 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

*points to NetBSD*

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sat Dec 17 18:28:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm actually pretty excited about
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-arm-p-optional-initrd

Class: geofft Instance: disbelieve
Time: Sat Dec 17 22:25:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ blanche ua-asa-rep
rkw
ua-admin

Class: geofft Instance: disbelieve
Time: Sat Dec 17 23:13:32 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

We haven't used the ua-asa-rep list in a long time, if ever.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Dec 17 23:17:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Gerrit Zacheiss

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:02:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Teaching achernya and lapentab about git (rebase -i and bisect,
respectively)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:02:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Alex is astounded at rebase -i. I think Bethany's getting a little
bored of the bisecting

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:02:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:02:56 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did they each know the other one, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:03:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've known of git bisect but never had a reason to use it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:03:57 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't think Bethany's ever used git before.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:04:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

^ true

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:12:07 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. I'd expect somebody to have run across rebase -i before bisect.
But maybe that's just because that's the order I used them. (I only
used bisect for the first time a couple days ago.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:15:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Well, the project I gave Bethany was specifically "track down this
regression"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:19:23 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm more confused due to Alex. Bethany... *shrug* who knows what
somebody'll decide to introduce the first time around.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Dec 18 01:22:29 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I secretly don't actually know git. I pretend to know git.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Dec 18 02:58:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

-> home?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:51:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm vaguely tempted to try this standby thing instead of booking
flights. I wonder how it works.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:54:20 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

You have to have a booking to use standby, unless you work for an
airline or something. Standby lets you (hopefully) get on an earlier
flight on the same day.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:55:03 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

If you show up at the airport without a booking, they'll be happy to
sell you a ticket on the spot, but it'll majorly cost you.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:55:06 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I think airtran offers standby seats for college kids

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:55:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I always check if there are earlier flights once I clear security, and
see if it's worth getting on a standby list.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:55:40 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Oh, hm, hadn't heard of that

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 16:55:53 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah, their airtran u program

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:15:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, aww. So the "hang out at Logan for a day hacking and hope there's a
free seat" plan won't work

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:18:31 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Pass Thru <kchen>

What was your goal in wanting to do so?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:20:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

assuming that pricing on a flight with otherwise-empty seats would be
cheaper than a booking in advance

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:21:30 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Airfair pricing does not adhere to anything you might consider logic.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:22:41 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

==kaduk, although (random speculation) presumably the reason that you
can't do that on most carriers is that if lots of people shifted to
doing what you suggested, it would be a net loss, not a net gain for
them.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:22:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

true.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:23:44 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: You had a vagina last time I imagined. - apfarr <wings>

I mean, it used to work the way you thought it did :)

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun Dec 18 17:28:57 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

There are sometimes great last-minute deals, but you can find these
from the comfort of your own computer. (Someone once posted on
Flyertalk about a $500 RT fare to Greece of the "get in the car now,
book it while driving to the airport" timeline variety.)

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:32:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-12-17-POSIX-close-is-broken.html

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:36:04 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Your comment seems to be cut off early?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:36:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... really?
I saved it too early, but hit "edit". It looks right to me

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:37:45 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ah, if I reload there is more.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:38:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

mumble eventual consistency

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:39:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Oddly appropriate"

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:39:36 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How can one deal with the file-descriptor re-use problem?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:39:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Give up on threads?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:39:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...reasonably?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:40:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"You could use threads that unshare their file descriptor table"

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:40:52 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...isn't that just processes and shared memory?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:42:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Sure. That's probably all you want out of threads, anyway

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:42:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Also signals and so forth (they remain in the same threadgroup)

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:14 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Except we just learned yesterday that children inherit signals too.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

There's a whole pile of stuff in close(2)

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No, they inherit signal _behavior_.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:32 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

If I send a signal to a process in a threadgroup, the signal goes to
the entire threadgroup

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

If I sighup a parent, I don't sighup all the children...

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:43:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(But I could if they're in the same process group and I send the
signal to the process group.)

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:47:44 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Also signals and so forth (they remain in the same threadgroup)

Isn't "threadgroup" == "process"?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:47:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Go read clone(2) and the description of CLONE_THREAD

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:47:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:48:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

But it's more precise to say "threadgroup" when you're talking about
making things kinda-threads-kinda-not

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:49:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yay. (I wrote code this summer that kinda assumed that...)

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:56:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

How is os.removedirs useful to anyone?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I use it.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... for what

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:31 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

For good, duh.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

removing intermediate files in scripts

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But you have to actually remove the files, right?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 19:59:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

WAYRTTD, is there an equivalent of "rm -r"?

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:00:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I do remove them, but I'm not sure I have to.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:01:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

removedirs gives me an error if the final component is not a
directory. (Which seems a little silly)

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:02:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

yeah. that's true.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:07:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

python is such a weird language

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:13:26 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

> If I send a signal to a process in a threadgroup, the signal goes to
> the entire threadgroup

IIRC it actually gets delivered to an arbitrary unpredictable process
in the threadgroup, because POSIX is useful like that.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:13:36 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Where by 'useful', I mean 'totally idiotic'.)

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:14:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Does it at least go to the first thread to get scheduled?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:15:02 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

POSIX doesn't say. Possibly Linux does that, unless one of them is
doing a sigwait. If some subsets of threads are in sigwait, then it's
guaranteed to go to at least one of them. (Which I don't think you
can actually take advantage of without race conditions.)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:16:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... did I really not comment this code?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:17:04 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"no, you forgot to push those changes"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:17:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm pretty sure I pushed everything

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:37:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIIIIIIIGH, HIGH ABOVE ME, SHE'S SO LOVELY

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:38:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Brogan E King <brogan>

And now that song is stuck in my head

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:38:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

:-D

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:44:44 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:47:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Why are there Chromium packages in the ~ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:49:23 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

*blink* Bundled libssl (from NSS) maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:54:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Debathena is so weird

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:55:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

How long did this take you to realize?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:55:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

I logged out of this VM and it rebooted

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Dec 18 20:55:54 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

i,i I logged in once and my vm rebooted.

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:20:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

i,i hipster twinkie

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:20:38 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Piper, why does [redacted] make me want to cut bitches?  Named [redacted]? - lexrj <wings>

oh god

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:20:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"LSC? Too mainstream"

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:23:38 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What would a hipster twinkie be involved in?

Class: geofft Instance: wings
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:25:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

They certainly were in ESP _before_ it was cool.

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Sun Dec 18 22:27:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<I must carry them in my heart, and go back and forth over them in my mind, like the words of the person dearest to me. (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

[stark] shutil.rmtree()

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:28:07 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Starking) Realistically, code mostly assumes that close() doesn't
fail on valid input, and any platform which violates this assumption
is asking for fd leak debugging until the end of time.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:28:54 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Traditionally, filesystem operations have been uninterruptable, so
something like closing an NFS or AFS file with data to flush would
simply block without the possibility to interrupt.

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:29:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Huh, does AFS' close() = ENOSPC leave the fd open or not?

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:30:30 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think it doesn't, but if that happens your app is probably failing
anyway (gracefully or more likely ungracefully).

Class: geofft Instance: close(2)
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:30:41 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

So a little fd leak at that point is no big deal.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:49:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Blah, I get the feeling I'll want to be in California to look for
apartments for a couple of days over IAP

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:49:37 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

naaaaaaaah just pick the cheapest one.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:49:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Come visit during the tail end of spring break, and visit me!

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:50:31 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Er, s/spring/winter/.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:51:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

When is that?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:51:51 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: on Ordeal, no calls <paigep>

That's all any sane interviewer should care about

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:51:55 2011 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: on Ordeal, no calls <paigep>

er, mix

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:51:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I fly back to MIT on 1/6.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:52:45 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, 
and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not 
commit suicide. - John Adams <aatharuv>

Where are you planning on living when you move here? 

IAP is probably too early to look for apartments since the apartments
won't actually be on the market yet.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:53:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

aatharuv: I'm moving in February...

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:53:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(i.e., I start work February 6)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:54:00 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

I retract my statement then.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:54:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(Although I wouldn't be surprised, given the number of things on
Craigslist and SUpost that are still for December/January)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:54:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But, I've been looking at the general environs of Palo Alto. (Work is
Redwood City)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Sun Dec 18 23:56:12 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm even conveniently located, then. Unfortunately, I don't know
anything about apartment-hunting.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 00:01:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wonder if I should worry that potential housemates will be out of
town the first week of January. (If I'm looking at apartment
complexes, this should be fine)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 00:06:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Matrix is telling me it is uniformly $299 to go from BOS to SFO ~any
time over IAP for ~any length of time. weird/awesome

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 00:08:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But BOS->home->SFO->BOS is just $180 more than BOS->home->BOS, so
maybe I'll do that.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:20:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, that's $300 roundtrip, right?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:23:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:23:18 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's the best I've ever seen

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:23:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, I'd be unsurprised if there's a constant $150 each way fare
from some airline

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:24:09 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

There was $200 recently but that was a fluke.  All three airlines
offering direct service offer $150 for the winter each way.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:24:29 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

($200 roundtrip - again, on all three at once)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:27:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Incidentally, if you're not flying VX cross-country and don't have
serious status on another airline, you should rethink your life

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:29:35 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Not a fan of JetBlue?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:29:53 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I find VX to be way better

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:30:17 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

K :-)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:30:41 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

If you're flying cross-country frequently, you should also consider
getting status

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:04 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

VX?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

How many cross-country flights does it actually take to get status?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Virgin America

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:20 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why the X?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:21 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Left Touch 1/4 <kchen>

25,000 miles, so 4-5, depending on your routing.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:23 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

5... there's a reason ~everybody on BOS-SFO seems to have it

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:31:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oops. <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:32:01 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

5 roundtrips? I didn't travel that much this year at least

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:32:14 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Pass Thru <kchen>

VX is the IATA code.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:32:37 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Then not worth doing.  I did ~12 so it was super-worth it for me.
Also makes all the smaller trips nicer

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:32:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Left Square Thru 3 <kchen>

(Why that?  I have no idea.  But there are plenty of other odd ones,
like JetBlue being B6.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:32:54 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I've been doing 4ish for the last couple years.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:33:04 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Huh. Thatt's really weird.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:34:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And I also think I'm less likely to cover that distance next year than
I was this year

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:37:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

What's particularly interesting about Virgin?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:38:07 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: You may get rich selling letters, but beware of being blackmailed!
 <rnjacobs>

(The codes are weird because it's only 2 letter alphanumerics and they're
running out)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:38:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Have you ever flown JetBlue? It's similar to that, but I find it to be
nicer than JetBlue

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:39:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mostly tend to not be picky about airlines

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:39:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Have you flown JetBlue or Virgin?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:39:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:40:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ok. I found the flying experience to be much more tolerable on those
airlines.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:41:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

JetBlue will sell me things resembling real food, but not real food.
I guess otheir airlines won't sell me anything resembling food at all.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:42:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Virgin will sell you expensive food that is largely passable for a
meal, at least on the cross-country routes

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:42:24 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

United will gladly sell me things that are pretty much real food.
They'll also charge as much for it as actual real food in a restaurant

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:42:25 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, really? Won't most airlines sell you ~real food?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:42:52 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

JetBlue wasn't so much with the selling food cross-country last
month, but maybe I missed it

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:42:55 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

JetBlue will give you snack food in noticeable quantities for free,
IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:43:13 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Yep, a couple bags of chips... best I've found for free (JetBlue)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:43:15 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a copy of "Zen and The Art of Robot Maintenance".
 <rnjacobs>

Airlines will often only have food for sale on flights >3hr long at the right
times of day.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:43:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Flying home involves either a direct flight to New Orleans or a
stopover somewhere like Charlotte or Atlanta or DC, which are not
long enough to justify Nice Things.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:43:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

If I end up regularly bouncing between SFO and BOS, then it's
possible my opinions will change

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:44:07 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Personally, I have found the upsides of a nonstop flight on a non-propeller
plane tremendously outweigh anything else an airline could give me.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:45:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Airlines will often only have food for sale on flights >3hr long at
> the right times of day.

Ah. Well, most of my flights are ~6 hour flights SFO<->BOS or so, so...

Class: geofft Instance: life.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 01:54:39 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: For a moment, you feel something in your hands, but it disappears!
 <rnjacobs>

(airline codes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_codes. It looks like
approximately 72% of the ~1300 codes have been allocated)

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:08:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Is there a way for me to get issues cloned? (Modulo SD)

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:14:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh hey, I passed 300k messages last night.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:15:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... I may want more swap

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:18:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What on earth are you doing?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"subbing to lots of classes"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I have two barnowls that between them are using 1G resident on this machine

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

That's it?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

"Get more RAM"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:19:53 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...I have a much better understanding of why linerva does what it does
now.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:28:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How long has your barnowl been running?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon Dec 19 13:29:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Since September 26.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:35:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

AUGH.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:35:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:38:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

AUGH, ALSO, N-C FRICKIN' *stabs the interweb*

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:42:32 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

<[SA]HatfulOfHollow> i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device
that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:45:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I want to stab the internet itself.

Class: geofft Instance: two-letter-unix-commands-ive-never-heard-of
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:50:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

sq

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 15:51:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Anyway, brb, regrading everything

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 19 16:44:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

<3 MIT kids. For the record.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 19 16:44:55 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: CA until 1/3 <kdrinkwa>

What'd they do now?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 19 16:45:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"If only John Locke had written something about the natural rights of
housemates"

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:09:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... I think I'm trolling myself, the strangest things are stuck in my
head

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:25:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait, is it possible for Firefox and xulrunner versions to be out of
sync?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:25:58 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I don’t think so; Firefox checks for the right xulrunner version at
startup.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:26:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... my firefox package doesn't depend on xulrunner?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:27:16 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

firefox (5.0~b2+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1) oneiric; urgency=low
…
  * Drop support for building with an external xulrunner
…
 -- Chris Coulson <chris.coulson@canonical.com>  Fri, 20 May 2011 23:24:44 +0100

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:27:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

blah. Do Ubuntu and Debian really package their Firefox differently?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:28:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Pass The Ocean <kchen>

I mean, among other things, Debian calls Firefox something else,
doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:28:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You mean besides Debian’s packaging being full of weasels?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:29:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Well, yes

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:38:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

running a VM on your second monitor is really the only right way to
use two monitors

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:38:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Or maybe "using a second monitor is really the only right way to run a VM"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:39:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In the absense of a second monitor, you can use virtual desktops

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Dec 19 17:41:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't have a long enough attention span to make that work.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Mon Dec 19 18:53:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

ls: cannot open directory .: Stale NFS file handle

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Mon Dec 19 18:54:01 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Networked Focus System?

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:06:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"You should just post freefood announcements on isawyou. 'I saw you,
Bertucci's rolls on the fourth floor. You looked so tasty. I wish
someone else would eat you.'"
"geofft, that's bordering on NSFW."

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:35:52 2011 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Madars Virza <madars>

Is Athena dialup better suited (uptime wise) to tmux my barnowl than
Linerva? I keep hearing about Linerva's outages at every other SIPB
meeting.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:36:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Why *does* everyone use linerva instead of an athena dialup, anyway?
Force of habit?)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:36:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mostly, SIPB members just use linerva rather than athena.dialup, so
they talk about it more.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:36:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, it's a SIPB service, unlike athena.dialup.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:37:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

athena.dialup used to have a policy of no long-running processes.
That policy changed like ~this yea

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:37:34 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

athena.dialup has a reputation for being more willing to reboot than
the linerva maintainers.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:37:56 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Wow, a user. I haven't seen one of those in ages. <aatharuv>

athena.dialup allows long running processes, these days?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

aatharuv: Yes

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:04 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Right, yeah, and force of habit from the days of geofft@20:37.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:28 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

My backup screen is on s-b (on of athena.dialup).

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(There used to be a tool that would go off and kill long-running
processes; that tool is never intended to be used again)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:33 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

s/on/one/

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I figured it was something like that.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:38:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

For regular-maintenance stuff, Linerva also prefers options that
don't involve rebooting, as far as possible. athena.dialup is willing
to reboot. (Of course, given the pain of rebooting with active users,
both are e.g. using Ksplice)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:39:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wish I knew _why_ Linerva kept crashing

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:39:34 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I wonder if anyone here remembers longjobs. (Well, besides Mitch.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:39:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I do! We use its servers!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:39:56 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:40:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yeah, but do you remember when it existed?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:40:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm pretty sure you're too young for that.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:40:46 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: ETOOMUCHSTUFF <aatharuv>

I do! </cruft>

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:59:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

aklog is incredibly crappy code

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 20:59:50 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:00:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Like, even before I got to the meat of it.... You just know things
are going to be awesome when the file starts like this:

/*
 * Why doesn't AFS provide these prototypes?
 */

extern int pioctl(char *, afs_int32, struct ViceIoctl *, afs_int32);

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:01:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I believe there's some work going on to pull token acquisition stuff
out into a library so aklog, klog, etc can all use the same code
instead of reimplementing it slightly differently each time.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:13:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

#ifndef AFS_AIX51_ENV
        /* on AIX 4.1.4 with AFS 3.4a+ if a write is not done before
         * this routine, it will not add the token. It is not clear what
         * is going on here! So we will do the following operation.
         * On AIX 5, it causes the parent program to die, so we won't.
         */
        write(2,"",0); /* dummy write */
#endif

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:14:03 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

*claps*

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:14:25 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

blame STREAMS

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:14:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh hey, it's shadow.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:15:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Grreeeaaaat.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:15:12 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

1) i discovered it was fixed in aix 5. the hard way
2) when i was writing the linux sparc audio driver i discovered fun
with zero-length writes in STREAMS

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:15:39 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> I believe there's some work going on to pull token acquisition stuff

there's a design. no work yet

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:16:19 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

aklog, fwiw is a lot of very crappy code that came from MIT :)
as opposed to the rest of AFS

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:17:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Okay, that was the question. Should I just copy-paste crap from aklog then?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:18:10 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I like lines 580--592... The for loop that needs no braces because
the body is just one long if.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:18:39 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

owww.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:18:59 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

actually if you're doing that, i suggest copying and pasting from
libkopenafs or russ' code it's derived from

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:19:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...why are you copy and pasting code instead of shelling out to the
tool you'd be copy/pasting from?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:19:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

This is in-tree?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:19:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh hey, it's broder.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:19:41 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh-oh

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:20:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

We're trying to get PTS.__cinit__ to let me pass in a ccache (or
keytab) and convert it into tokens entirely in userspace, instead of
getting the tokens out of kernelspace

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:20:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

So that you can use sec=pts.PTS_ENCRYPT on scripts without playing
stupid pag games

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:21:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

/me puts on his skeptical face

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:22:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Note that this is my _better_ idea. This got shot down already:

adehnert / asa.db / geofft  2011-12-19 20:49  (I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB)
    so write an LD_PRELOAD to hook PSetTokens and PGetTokens
adehnert / asa.db / adehnert  2011-12-19 20:49  (Alex Dehnert)
    ....

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:22:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In particular, I'm not really inclined to have my library be
responsible for another copy of that code coming into existence

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:23:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"It's not very much code"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:23:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> another copy of that code
And translated into a different language, too, just for kicks

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:24:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, I'd probably just copy a static function into a new .c file
and link it

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:25:36 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> why are you copy and pasting code instead of shelling out

ask ken hornstein about me harassing him for years about forking
aklog.

popen() sucks

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:25:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

What is libafscp?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:26:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

commit 08b7ca67a781ec93ae71677dd165133d9679a9bc
Author: Chaskiel Grundman <cg2v@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date:   Fri Jul 2 14:08:23 2010 -0400

    libafscp: a library for "clientless" operations

    libafscp provides the ability to accomplish many of the functions of an AFS
    client without a running afsd cache manager.  It is being introduced into
    the OpenAFS source tree in order to improve the capabilities of several
    utilities but may have additional benefits for testing clients and servers
    and for use on platforms which do not have afsd support.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:26:16 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> so write an LD_PRELOAD to hook PSetTokens and PGetTokens

if you're going to o that i can make your life much easier

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:26:24 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

you want rmtsys.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:26:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

shadow: I agree. That's what libpipeline is for, though you won't like
it because it's GPLv3

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:26:53 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

so it doesn't exist.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:27:09 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

security software that doesn't want to be used doesn't exist

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:27:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Attempting to convince Colin to relicense it as LGPL is on my todo list

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:27:37 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

which is better but not good

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:28:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

rmtsys ... literally only helps me with the LD_PRELOAD, right?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:28:40 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, it means you can run aklog and have it use not the kernel for
doing pioctls against. 

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:29:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Is my aklog supposed to have a -rmtsys option?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:29:21 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

nope

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:29:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is there nothing in libopenafs-dev that's useful for this?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:30:05 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I could also write the stupid wrapper script that does the dance.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:30:27 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

rmtsys would be setenv AFSSERVER localhost and then have something
listen on the rmtsys port. at least assuming aklog uses libsys for
pioctl. i don't remember if it does.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:30:38 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

libopenafs-dev: i didn't look recently. maybe it does

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:30:55 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or openafs-devel or whatever you Fedora kids call it

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:31:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

broder: grepping for interesting strings, I think the code we want
exists only as static functions in aklog and in libafscp.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:31:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I would buy that pyafs _should_ expose libafscp, but it seems like a
rather large yak

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:31:45 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

in fedora or redhat openafs-devel is just openafs libraries. if there
was a library, we'd have already been discussing that instead of the
design existing but no code. so...

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:01 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

libafscp: you'll have thread issues

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

noooooo

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:21 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

basically, libafscp can either be lwp-based, or can be used with
pthreads but is basically not thread safe

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not familiar with libafscp but it certainly sounds like it would be
reasonable for PyAFS to expose it

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:34 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i started but did very little of the pthreads work

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"It's Python, it's single-threaded, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:41 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

then you're fine

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:51 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

let's just say i looked at it for something that wanted threads. and
got very sad

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:32:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

geofft, I'm going to pretend I didn't see you say that

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:33:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The proximate program should be single-threaded. Of course, making
PyAFS non-thread-safe is possibly unfortunate.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:33:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, is that actually true? If Django in FastCGI _isn't_ threaded,
don't we get real sad?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:34:06 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Does "non-thread-safe" mean "not able to be made thread-safe by adding
my own higher-level locking"?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:34:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If an application can make it thread safe by adding its own locking,
then I'm fine with that in PyAFS as long as it's documented

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:35:16 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

you can add your own higher-level locking and be fine

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:35:16 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Honestly, making it thread safe by requiring an application to do
everything in its main thread is also acceptable in my mind)

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:35:26 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

you can also do that

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:35:31 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i was unwilling to do so

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:38:03 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

also, having copied it i am quite sure the aklogish code exists in
russ' library also

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:38:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

Which is this library?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:39:02 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

libkopenafs (i think)

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:40:19 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ah. right. the code's in kstart

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:41:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

yeah, libkopenafs looks incredibly boring.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:42:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Almost certainly something that pyafs should expose if it doesn't,
but just some wrappers around pioctls

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:43:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Can't you solve your problem if you add code to PyAFS to create a new
PAG?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:43:31 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Then you create a new PAG and shell out to aklog

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:46:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

broder: As soon as you're in a new PAG, you're out of the
daemon.scripts PAG, which is annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:47:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Certainly nothing's preventing us from writing a tiny #!pagsh shell
script to run pts -encrypt, it's just ugly.
(I suspect Alex has already written the script at this point)

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:47:51 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think it's less ugly than your alternative

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:48:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

"But the ugliness would be in an upstream library"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:54:50 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] It's a cronjob, not Django.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:57:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

/* XXX - We should think about how to handle this */
if (ttoken.kvno < 0 || ttoken.kvno > 256) {
     fprintf(stderr,
            "funny kvno (%d) in ticket, proceeding\n",
            ttoken.kvno);
}

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:59:06 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

hat would be a larger than krb4 kvno

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 21:59:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Certainly nothing's preventing us from writing a tiny #!pagsh shell
       script to run pts -encrypt, it's just ugly.
       (I suspect Alex has already written the script at this point)

Nah, uh, Sally stopped by and started playing with my hair.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:00:11 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is that what they're calling it these days.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:00:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It ended up braided.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:01:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Close enough.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:01:57 2011 Host: OLIVER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> ET

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:02:35 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:02:59 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Daniel stopped by to tell me you were coming over, and was confused
by why you weren't here...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:08:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Blah, missed SafeRide

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wonder if I'm awake enough to get a ZipCar and move stuff tonight

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:15:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, I do need to be moved out tomorrow, so I'm going to say yes. If
this doesn't work I can always just get one tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:18:13 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They have special late-night rates, too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:18:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

They do, I can get a van for $36 now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:19:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But I could also finish grading, go to sleep, and spend 3 hours
moving tomorrow in the daytime while awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:19:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, how packed are you?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:19:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Not

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:20:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(I was trying to grade and ... didn't get very far)
So I guess I'll go over on SafeRide, get a key, sleep, pack in the
morning, and deal in the daytime

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:20:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Also I have a meeting tomorrow? What is this

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:21:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Well, unless this SafeRide is Boston East, not West, in which case I
don't want to show up absurdly late

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:45:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:45:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

timed out on SafeRide, got a zipcar, zipcar isn't there

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:47:20 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Call zipcar, they're pretty good about finding you another car if
there's a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:47:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

well my phone's not charged.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:47:52 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

though it may not be remotely convenient - the car we picked up near
Kendall broke down, and the next nearest available car was somewhere
in downtown Boston.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:48:04 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

At least they reimbursed me the cab fare.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:49:04 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah, you could call and cancel and then just get a cab

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:49:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I think I can just cancel via the interwebs since I just booked it?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:49:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

and a cab is distinctly not what I want

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

oh hey.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

that is not the parking lot I thought I clicked.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:24 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Right, they paid the cabfare to ferry me from the location with the
car with the problem to the one that didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:30 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...oh. Right, then.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

I am clearly to tired to be driving tonight

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Dec 19 22:50:45 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

and spelling. "too"

Class: geofft Instance: two-letter-unix-commands-ive-never-heard-of
Time: Mon Dec 19 23:35:49 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But I thought you read all the manpages???

Class: geofft Instance: furniture
Time: Tue Dec 20 00:11:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

If anyone wants some dressers of good quality, some smaller drawes of
reasonable quality, or a desk or bookshelf or side table of okay
quality, let me know

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 20 00:13:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You know what's confusing? Cambridge has one-way streets

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 20 00:14:11 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: But what is it for?  Why does it mean? <wings>

==

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:19:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I love working for the Mass Inst of Tpayroll

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:19:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Then why are you leaving?

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:20:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So I can figure out if I'm working for Moka5 or for MokaFive

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:21:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Also, reading my statement is depressing. Verde's, Verde's, Taco
Bell, Verde's, Taco Bell, Cafe Spice, Dunkin' Donuts, Sebastian's, ...

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:21:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

... Ikea East Palo Alto ...

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:22:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait, huh, I bet I wanted SIPB to reimburse that $30

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:23:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait, what is "MMMACCHEESE BOSTON MA"... oh. I know what that is

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:23:24 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I do seem to recall asking you if you had receipts for me...

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:23:32 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "I encourage the minimalization of suckitude." <pquimby>

It sounds like a Monster Truck Rally narrated "Mac and cheese"

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:23:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No, that's another unrelated $300

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:24:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... Top of the Hub was $60? huh. I guess that's actually cheap, as
that place goes.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:25:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... lwn.net ...

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:26:35 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You don't get that for free?

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:27:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:27:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm not a DD, and I don't know any other means of getting that for
free. (It's not like SIPB has a group subscription)

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:29:05 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I get it for free through Dell. There are probably other ways.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:29:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't currently work for a place that has any interest in me
wasting my time on LWN

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Dec 20 01:30:33 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 11:37:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

lp0 on fire

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 11:39:01 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Thanks to Pharos, we can charge your TechCash for the fire
extinguishing costs.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 11:39:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

Alternatively, "W91: MIT's hottest colo facility"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 11:42:08 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The printers at my alma mater, like many network printers, had the
ability to send emails when events happened. We had an April 1
tradition in the IT department of forging a "printer on fire" alert
email.

One student worker actually fell for it one year.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Dec 20 12:08:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

sane initrds! deprecation of separate /usr! ++s all around

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Dec 20 12:10:07 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It's a WUBWUBWUB miracle!"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Dec 20 12:10:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 13:12:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Gone away is the UHN-TSS UHN-TSS, here to stay is the WUB WUB WUB

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 13:15:02 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can't tell whether that would be an awesome or terrible remix.

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 13:16:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I actually want to try the Little Dubstep Boy one

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 14:52:50 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Nyangry Cats

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 14:53:33 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I actually downloaded a game to my phone yesterday where
you help a cat catch and eat angry-like birds

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 20 14:53:42 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Turned out to be a crappy game.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 20 17:03:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

-> USAGE

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Dec 20 17:07:02 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 17:53:48 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm, did jhawk's call to india-tech-support-for-dell where he joked that
"flames are shooting out the top" of the monitor make it into a minutes
title?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Dec 20 17:54:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

THat was the Phillipines, Ben.

Class: geofft Instance: furniture
Time: Tue Dec 20 19:26:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh, I also have a mattress

Class: geofft Instance: furniture
Time: Tue Dec 20 19:27:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I guess it's twin size? It's totally reasonable, I've used it for 1.5
years (and it was djwendel's for a few years), we don't need it any
more, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:06:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

ET key and bed assignment
(oh yeah, if it wasn't obvious, I'm apparently staying at ET over IAP)

Class: geofft Instance: lostItem
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:07:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

bed in my apartment. apparently it disassembles into pieces that look
nothing like a bed.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:14:20 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: CA until 1/3 <kdrinkwa>

Neat!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:48:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: For unto us a child is bWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... I'm pretty sure I should not be seeing display corruption on
virtualized hardware

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:51:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be assuming any perfection from computers.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:54:57 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: GLaSGALL <glasgall>

i,i "therefore a computer is not God"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Dec 20 20:55:51 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I mean, they assumed perfection from the HAL 9000 in 2001: A Space
Odyssey, and look where that got them.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Tue Dec 20 21:27:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

What is that red thing on the lion's face? A wound?
(cf. http://zoobar.org/)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:39:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oops. Found my focus.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:39:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Unfortunately, I've had a zipcar reserved for over an hour now and
also need to do laundry

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:41:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the king to the people everywhere: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I have no idea what this is but it's awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:43:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(It's a '50s-rock-ish cover of Rihanna's "Umbrella")

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:44:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The Baseballs!

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:44:12 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They're amazing

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:44:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:44:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You should watch the music video of that track if you haven't seen it

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:45:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Does it require me to have watched the original music video first?
(like with the Muppets' cover of "Bohemian Rhapsody"?)

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Wed Dec 21 00:46:24 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:36:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You all live on the internet way too much.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:36:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

Fully half of the "leave a witty message for the grader"s have been
random memes

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:37:01 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Paul Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i,i but you understand, them, yes? doesn't that imply something about
you?? :P

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:37:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(one was a trollface in a data: URL, which was actually rather awesome)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:37:28 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

any attempts at exploits?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:37:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: For unto us a child is bWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Jared: "Yes, from every student who passed"

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:38:38 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh, right, this is computer systems security, so maybe that's the point

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:39:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Right. We tell them to leave a witty message in addition to the
injected script, if they'd like, to make it more obvious that they
were able to inject something into the page

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 01:39:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

and it's full of ascii art and "im in ur base" and such

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:02:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Subject: want to become a terrorist?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:34:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yay done grading labs.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:36:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Left in term:
[ ] enter like two more homework grades
[ ] figure out if Nickolai wants me to do something regarding project
    grades? (maybe the rest of the course staff did this)
[ ] write a thesis

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:36:48 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Man, undergradding is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:36:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

-> home -> moving -> home'
(-> book flights -> home'')

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:36:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

ttants: undergrading

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:39:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Hm, flights got vaguely expensive, unless I want to leave Friday
instead of Thursday?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:40:09 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes. All the cool kids fly Friday.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 02:41:40 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Better ... fly out on friday?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:12:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

*yawn* okay, I forgot how much I depend on three loud alarms all
being snoozed as well as the noises of other people awake in the rest
of my apartment for me to wake up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:13:12 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You clearly need one of those thinkgeek USB missile launchers tied to
a cron job.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:14:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, or I could start going to sleep 8 hours before I need to wake
up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:14:47 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That doesn't even work in real life, I've tried

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:50:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

"Honorable Menschen, Boston's premiere semi-professional Jewish a
cappella group, is looking for a few good Menschen."

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:50:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That is an awesome name

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Dec 21 13:59:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, the alpine-pico (Apache) and nano (GPL 3) licenses are compatible...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Dec 21 15:11:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

i,i There's probably a good startup opportunity for fixing the broken
parts of recruiting

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 16:27:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Is it just me, or does SimpleHTTPServer have dumb caching requirements?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Wed Dec 21 16:27:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

*behavior

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:36:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... Have I really been committing to the 858 git repo as
geofft@ldpreload.com instead of geofft@mit.edu? _derp_

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:36:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

filter-branch! filter-branch!

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:36:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I already pushed

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:37:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's cool, nobody will notice

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:37:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Other people have made committs on top of mine

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:37:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm pretty sure it's more likely that nobody noticed the wrong e-mail
address (well, "wrong", but 858 is definitely with my MIT hat than my
private-individual hat)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 17:43:19 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*shrug* I tend to be bad about submitting patches developed with my
work hat using my personal e-mail, because I usually don't remember
that I meant to change it until after I e-mail it off

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 18:27:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

I have never stopped having problems with this with Ksplice/personal
stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 18:28:25 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You probably know this, but maybe you don’t know that you know it:
you can configure user.email on a per-repository basis.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 18:32:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Dunno if you're talking to me or Geoff, but yeah, I do that, but I
never consistently remember to configure new repositories before
committing.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 18:33:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:22:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

andersk: I suspect I did something silly like changing my .gitconfig or
$EMAIL recently

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:22:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

so I never went back through the repositories I'd been correctly
defaulting to mit.edu on

Class: geofft Instance: green-line
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:24:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

40 minutes from BU to Lechmere. I guess that's not terrible

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:31:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:32:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Got a package in the mail from 10gen with a MongoDB mug, book,
sticker, and postcard.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:32:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Thanking me for applying.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:33:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

I... applied like three months ago, and the conversation trailed off

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:33:22 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But hey, my coffee can be web scale!

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:34:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

also, _what_

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:38:15 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Happy Christmas, lol.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:39:06 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Lady Gaga - VOIP <aatharuv>

I'm currently drinking coffee out of a MongoDB mug. If it breaks, I
can get my other MongoDB mug located over a high latency (min 14
minutes) land link. But it's scalable! And I'll only lose the coffee
currently in my mug!

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:57:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:57:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

Thigns in my room I have no idea what to do with:
- a huge stack of 6.857 final projects
- an MIT wireless AP

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:57:52 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why do you have an MIT wireless AP?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:57:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"good question"

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:58:19 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I hope you follow that with a good answer.

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:58:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

I asked Stuart if I could play with the serial port/console on it. I
think I've had it since I've been in the dorms, and haven't bothered
to return it?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 19:58:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And never actually managed to connect to its serial terminal?

Class: geofft Instance: !furniture
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:17:25 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh right... Also, if anyone wants to buy a decent-quality Dell
monitor with a busted VGA input (but working DVI input) off me,
it's less effort than debugging. All my devices are VGA out

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:19:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

whatsnext.mit.edu is so sad!

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:22:33 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Ugh, what happened to the quotes? Looks like this was written in
Windows, but pretending to be ISO-8859-1/UTF-8.

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:23:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Huh

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:24:03 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, looks like it has smart quotes. It renders wrong in Chrome,
despite the content-type.

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:24:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I think the person who was definitely not me who wrote that was using
a Mac at the time?

Class: geofft Instance: cfs
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:25:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Anyway, the site appears to have updated to use &ldquo; and &rdquo;
instead

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:53:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: For unto us a child is bWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Encarta 2004!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Dec 21 20:58:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Does anyone else hear it as "It's too late topologize"?

Class: geofft Instance: north-korea/interwebs
Time: Wed Dec 21 21:15:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://qkme.me/35js3g

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Dec 21 21:53:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Go tell it on the mountain that WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

-> drivin' round town with the girl you love^W^W^W^Wsome suitcases and boxes

Class: geofft Instance: lp
Time: Wed Dec 21 23:07:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Woo, Ubuntu might be signing their netboot installer images

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:17:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:24:27 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

mmm?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:24:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"it's raining"

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:41:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Slightly tempted to just fall asleep on this couch. Pros: sleep
schedule will suck less. Cons: why am I not completely moved already

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:41:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It's debatable whether I care about my sleep schedule right now. I
guess if I'm in Cambridge I'd arguably like to see people during the
day tomorrow/Friday

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Thu Dec 22 00:44:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

I guess I'd like to see my _advisor_ during the day.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 22 14:52:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

ugh. overslept. sick. headacke. hungry.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:12:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

-> pants -> food -> campus -> finish dealing with moving

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:13:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

From: OkCupid! <bounces@mail1.oknotify2.com>

Hi geoffreyerffoeg,

Jesus is the reason for the season. And that's why we're emailing you
right now, because his settings are set to "email all my followers."
Here are your Christmas matches!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:13:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

She's Christian, single, and reading a similar message about you
right now. Send her a message! Seriously. Do it.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:14:27 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Isn't Saturn the resaon for the season?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:14:48 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They are doing a religious holiday thing. See reddit for the atheism
version.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:15:45 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It strikes me that a combined OkCupid and Google would be a truly
terrifying force.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:17:25 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I've actually thoguht that the OkCupid data set is a very
powerful force all by itself, if you tried to use it for
more specific ends, like arranging rideshares or
couchsurfing.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:18:19 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Allah's the reason for the season?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:18:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

Silent night, holy night, Allah's calm, Allah's bright.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:20:07 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

If the network data are valuable, then it's lucky for OkCupid that
they predate Facebook Platform!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:21:42 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus <ternus>

Death to the world / Cthulhu reigns!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:22:46 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 15:25:09 2011 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Wanted: A blessed wand of social engineering <aatharuv>

Wasn't this season related to the birth of Isis?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Dec 22 23:05:22 2011 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I thought it was just that it is dark out and
people get Seasonal Affective Disorder.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:05:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:06:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: For unto us a child is bWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(went back to sleep around 6)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:06:14 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Woo sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:12:03 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Just in time for linerva to fall over?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:14:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: juxta-ish
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:45:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

kasittig / internet.elsewhere / kasittig  2011-12-23 00:41  (Karen A Sittig)
    man, I've been fucking up this "student loan" thing all along:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373.html
kasittig / internet.elsewhere / kasittig  2011-12-23 00:41  (Karen A Sittig)
    started by an MIT alum!
kasittig / internet.elsewhere / dvp  2011-12-23 00:44  (dvp on the command line)
    Oh yeah, that's _awesome_
kasittig / internet.elsewhere / dvp  2011-12-23 00:44  (dvp on the command line)
    Gotta love, uh, "resourceful" young ladeez
kdrinkwa / eiw / adehnert  2011-12-23 00:44  (Alex Dehnert)
    Oh, yeah, I should do that!

Class: geofft Instance: juxta-ish
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:48:46 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Those classes are the same color for me... I was afraid I'd mixed for
a moment.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta-ish
Time: Fri Dec 23 00:48:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"They both start with a k for me."

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Fri Dec 23 01:29:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://img1.alphamerchant.com/unbeatablesale/sku/727994750314.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Dec 23 11:09:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

awake

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 23 12:43:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Where do you people keep your diplomas? I'm going to lose mine

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 23 12:44:07 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I outsourced that to my parents

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 23 12:45:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

That sounds like the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: moving-out.kitchen.overheard
Time: Fri Dec 23 16:01:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Oh no, it exploded the potato!"

Class: geofft Instance: moving-out.kitchen.overheard
Time: Fri Dec 23 16:02:55 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Poor GLaDOS thought too hard, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:52:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So do people drive at night with full beams on, or am I confused how to
work this zipcar?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:52:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

the blue light shows up if I have lights on past usual daytime lights

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:53:07 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

It seems likely that there is a level somewhere in the
"high beams" position.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:53:12 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

*lever

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:53:15 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Haven't these Russians ever heard of a moving-shield-wall offense? <eichin>

the blue light traditionally means high beams;
usually that's on one of the sticks off the steering wheel, and you
can pull it towards you to engage/disengage it...

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:53:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

That's what I thought...

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(This is a ... Mazda 3, IIRC?)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:05 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

There is no difference between daytime running lights and
regular nighttime lights on many (most? all?) cars

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

hm.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:18 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Forget hardare protection. That's so 70's." --Kaashoek <pquimby>

Read the manual.
Use the round thingy in front of you to turn the car. The pedals make
you go vrrroooom or screeeeeech.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I got honked at for having merely daytime lights on, and I also couldn't
see the road

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:54:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Thank you Paul

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:55:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I seem to remember being confused by the lights on the 3 I rented. So
it's not just you.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:55:06 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The trick is to @i(truly value) the shiny objects <eichin>

you sure you didn't just have running lights on?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:55:37 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Then you may have to look for another way to turn on real
lights. On my Toyota it's a relatively subtle switch,
because you can just leave the real lights on all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:55:38 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Disco is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art. <eichin>

(running lights being the yellow "be seen, but
not see" lights)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:55:59 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Nobody ever listens to poor Zathras." --Zathras <pquimby>

What car?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:56:13 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The yellow lights are parking lights, I thought, not
running lights. People who drive with the yellow lights on
are a peeve of mine.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:56:19 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'll check the manual next time I get it. Sadly someone has it at 6

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:56:50 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Military Communications) <eichin>

so finding a store with plate glass front windows
to act as a mirror so you can see what lights are on isn't going to
work :-)

Class: geofft Instance: galleria
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:57:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

all the people

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:57:16 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

See this for the distinction between parking lights and
running lights:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Front

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:57:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Turn To A Line <kchen>

hmm, I wonder if that was the car I was driving where I didn't realize
my lights weren't sufficiently on until I needed to park and couldn't
see the driveway.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:58:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Square The Bases <kchen>

With whatever car that was, I think the problem was that there was one
extra click than I'm used to -- I might have had to skip past some
automatic mode or something.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:59:11 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "This <gesture> is always the wrong tool." --Zathras <pquimby>

The 2007 owners manual says that you can push the headlight control
on the arm one stop further to the "=D" symbol.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 17:59:43 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I think my Toyota has four positions on the control: off,
running lights, running-or-headlights-by-light-sensor (the
default), and headlights.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 18:01:20 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Imagine if a rational being came back to Earth." --Hamm <pquimby>

There also appears to be an "auto" position on some models that will
choose all the lighting for you.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 18:02:33 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Imagine if a rational being came back to Earth." --Hamm <pquimby>

You can also adjust the angle of your headlights by using a rocker
switch down to the left of the steering column.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 18:04:02 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Windmills do not work that way." <pquimby>

Aha! There is some extra magic. The "=D" symbol is just "headlights".
You have to push the whole arm forward to get high beams.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Dec 23 18:04:32 2011 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Imagine if a rational being came back to Earth." --Hamm <pquimby>

source: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/manuals/2007_Mazda3_OM.pdf
page 5-53

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Dec 23 20:39:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

How do I have _so much crap_ to shred

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:28:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Waitwait, the GoDaddy boycott worked?

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:39:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

We're as confused as you are.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:39:34 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not convinced it worked. Battle, war, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:39:46 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The comments from the new CEO were...uninspiring

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:41:07 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Also ==broder

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:43:13 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What happened?

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:43:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I suspect it's only a vague definition of "worked."
I doubt they've changed their minds; I just think they realized some
of their biggest customers didn't like it and wanted to avoid losing
them.  It's a business decision to backpedal now--at least publicly.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:45:27 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Of course, now that they have changed their minds, I still
think less of them and don't plan to do business.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:45:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

==tibbetts

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:45:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

glasgall:  GoDaddy came out in support of SOPA.  The Internet decided
to boycott them in response--including some of their large customers
(Wikipedia and the Cheezburger network).  Then they said they would no
longer support it.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:46:33 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The "no longer support it" part is the part I hadn't heard.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:46:53 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, I figured the news was them either backing off or doubling
down, but didn't know which :)

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:47:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

==tibbetts
(if their previous antics weren't enough already)

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:50:01 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, it's not like it's really _possible_ for me to think less of them

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:53:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I think it is.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Dec 23 21:55:43 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: And they all moved away from me on the bench... <eichin>

as I think nelhage said earlier - of course they
supported SOPA, it was legal cover for the crap they pull all the time anyway

Class: geofft Instance: else.poorly-timed-middle-clicks
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:42:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ Sing oh my love, oh my love, my love, my love,
bash: Sing: command not found
tyger:~ geofft$ This have I done for my true love.
bash: This: command not found

Class: geofft Instance: else.poorly-timed-middle-clicks
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:43:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

i,i http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l33accFNIv1qz5stvo1_500.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else.poorly-timed-middle-clicks
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:44:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: CA until 1/3 <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.poorly-timed-middle-clicks
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:45:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the night wind to the little lamb: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:50:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Sigh. ET is apparently a business address, which means I can't
re-file a change of address in a month. My alternate plan was "77
Mass Ave Rm. W20-557", but that is presumably also a business.

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:51:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I guess I can fill this out as a _temporary_ address, which is not
really wrong even though I don't intend to move back to my current
apartment

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:53:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It's vaguely unclear that telling MITFCU to use SIPB instead of ET as
my temporary mailing address was the right decision

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:53:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Clearly I should just go find my permanent California address already

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:54:33 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"You’re not done yet! Before confirming your change of address
request on the next page, select from exclusive coupons and discount
offers from the brands below."

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:54:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Five golden WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I will punch you in the face

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:55:02 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

"and now for a word from our sponsor"

you shouldn't have to select anything?

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:55:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I will punch you in your capitalist privatized face with my righteous
Communist hammer of government bailouts

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:56:25 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

.wh!

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 01:56:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 24 02:30:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Selections from Holst's "The Electrical Grids" include:
"Enron, the Bringer of Corruption"
"Halliburton, the Bringer of War"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 24 02:30:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Solyndra, the Magician"

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 02:35:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Circle To A Wave <kchen>

I used to go to the Central post office to pick up change of address
forms all the time to get Lowes 10% off coupons to use at Home Depot.
I forget whether that's one of the online offers.

Class: geofft Instance: change-of-address-form
Time: Sat Dec 24 02:35:58 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Last I checked it was only in person.

Class: geofft Instance: krugmanq
Time: Sat Dec 24 02:42:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dear desire of every nation, joy of every longing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's
life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish
fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its
unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially
crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of
course, involves orcs."

Class: geofft Instance: krugmanq
Time: Sat Dec 24 09:36:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

[stark]
Is that Krugman?
I've seen that quote floating around the Internet unattributed for a
while.  If he said it recently he's just passing it on, but it's
possible he was the originator a while back.

Class: geofft Instance: krugmanq
Time: Sat Dec 24 09:39:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Saith Wikipedia

Class: geofft Instance: krugmanq
Time: Sat Dec 24 09:39:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

Wikipedia is never wrong!

Class: geofft Instance: krugman
Time: Sat Dec 24 09:40:56 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Assuming you are reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged then you can
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#cite_note-55
which has an instance of the quote in 2009 before citing
Krugman saying it in 2010 in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#cite_note-56

Class: geofft Instance: krugman
Time: Sat Dec 24 09:41:22 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Wikipedia is a lot more accurate if you follow the
citations.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:35:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

-> ATL

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:36:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

wait, why are you coming here?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:36:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"There's a flight to BTR there"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:36:23 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

ah, OK

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:36:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

no geofft visit for kyokis then

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:36:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I mean, to wish you and ahailes a merry Christmas, clearly

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:37:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I have an entire hour of layover!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:37:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

that's probably about enough time to get to the right gate if you have to switch
terminals ...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:37:59 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: POONA (n.) Satisfied grunting noise made when sitting back after a good meal. <ahailes>

I'm not in ATL

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:38:07 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: BOTCHERBY (n.) The principle by which British roads are signposted. <ahailes>

I'm trapped in Tallahassee

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:38:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I thought you were going to some island?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:38:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: POONA (n.) Satisfied grunting noise made when sitting back after a good meal. <ahailes>

yeah, stuck en route

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 24 14:38:39 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

suck

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:00:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

preboarding
pregaming

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:03:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Speaking of ttants, my flight from BOS was once again from the A20 gate

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:03:36 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:03:44 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:04:19 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Dec 24 19:29:18 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If they forget to enable it, the plane suddenly ends up back on the runway once
it's gone 2^20 feet away from the airport.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sun Dec 25 00:39:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/azEzG.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sun Dec 25 00:40:09 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They don't have RAID-Z still.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Dec 25 01:08:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 20:45:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@MIT.EDU>
To: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
Subject: email thanks



--
Geoffrey Thomas
geofft@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Dec 25 01:09:31 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

TODO: thank X via e-mail.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Dec 25 01:09:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The angels sungen the shepherds to: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

That's the most likely explanation, but who???

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Dec 25 01:18:59 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

i,i http://bash.org/?276955

Class: geofft Instance: anon
Time: Sun Dec 25 17:59:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

What is "antisec"?

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Sun Dec 25 18:08:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

x) blog.ldpreload.com
y) ldpreload.com/blog
z) ldpreload.com/~geofft/blog or something

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Sun Dec 25 18:08:24 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: No, I did not confess. Imply? Perhaps. Mislead? Possibly. <wings>

y

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Sun Dec 25 18:09:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

y

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Sun Dec 25 20:40:58 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's either a mirror, or another soulless kitten-seeking robot.
 <rnjacobs>

(stark) Definitely not z

Class: geofft Instance: doxory
Time: Sun Dec 25 20:41:37 2011 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

current content to /bio.html, main page to blog

Class: geofft Instance: else Opcode: philosoraptor
Time: Mon Dec 26 01:50:31 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

If Jewish people eat Chinese food on Christmas, what do Chinese
people eat?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 01:50:36 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Chinese food

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 01:50:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Isn't someone supposed to eat Jewish food?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 01:51:08 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Jews, but not on Christmas

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 01:54:15 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

that's what Hanukkah is for!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 02:03:54 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

We do need to make latkes soon...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 02:04:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you Jewish?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 02:19:49 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes, though not practicing

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 02:20:24 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

latkes are delicious, you don't need to be a practicing jew to know
that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Dec 26 02:21:08 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.recommendations
Time: Mon Dec 26 04:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

A Black Theology of Liberation
God of the Oppressed
The Universe Bends Toward Justice
Sisters in the Wilderness
A Theology of Liberation

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.recommendations
Time: Mon Dec 26 04:10:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the night wind to the little lamb: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm very confused about who Amazon thinks I am

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon Dec 26 04:51:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm surprised there's only one Google result for "American Christian
Jamahiriya" and none for "American White Jamahiriya"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Dec 26 15:02:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Natum videte regem angeWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Devel::TSAProf, a utility for racial profiling of Perl code

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Dec 26 15:07:19 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: Unappetizing is no printout! <lgdean>

ha/ouch

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Dec 26 15:09:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Huh, I may well never play another Guild game in my life again. Weird.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Dec 26 15:09:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Somehow this is weirder than "I may never take a class again"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:44:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So is debug.debian.net just dead or something?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:47:41 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I wish I'd discovered that a few years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:48:13 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's worthless as-is though, isn't it? Because it only works if you're
using the same build that generated the dbg symbols?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:48:30 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Right, I wish I'd discovered it when it was current :p

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:49:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean that even when it was current, you would have had to only used
their re-built packages

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:49:20 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There's not just a version-skew issue; there's a build-skew issue

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:49:21 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

<3 ddebs.ubuntu.com

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:49:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's why Ubuntu builds it into their buildds

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:49:45 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that Vlad lives!!! ... in the mazes.
 <rnjacobs>

Oh. ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:50:38 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It needs to be handled at the buildd level, and that doesn't even solve
the whole problem for Debian since they do binaryful uploads, so they'd
need to fix that, too

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:50:59 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Or add something like pkg-create-dbgsym to build-essential or something)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:51:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Debian's considered tossing the binaries and rebuilding them

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:51:28 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Which sounded like a great idea

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:52:26 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "The game of @i(spacewar) blossoms spontaneously wherever there is a graphics display connected to a computer" - Alan Kay <eichin>

yeah, I wish someone would just push that forward

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:52:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But anyway, it sounds to me like debug.debian.net rebuilds and hopes
that builds are deterministic enough?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:55:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

If I want to store a bunch of files (e.g. my homedir, my mail, etc.)
securely in The Cloud, what do I want? Presumably Amazon EBS or S^3,
since I can reimplement Dropbox or tarsnap myself?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:55:40 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

store live, or back up?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:55:33 2011 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A mug of coins is about $30. <eichin>

if I'm not overinterpretting the page, it at least
checks that the symbols match...

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:55:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The angels sungen the shepherds to: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(and they backend to Amazon, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:55:56 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

How much of  a pain are you willing to go to? SUrely this is a solved problem.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:57:43 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Does Déjà Dup help you with this?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 17:59:16 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

kcr: Uh, hm.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:05:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The page says "The resulting binaries are then matched against those
found in the main Debian archive, and if they match, the debug symbol
packages are uploaded to debug.debian.net.", which says to me they
check to make sure the build was repeatable before they upload.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:06:10 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is that actually common? It seems like parallel builds, if nothing else,
would cause problems for that

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:30:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

There's some stuff that's in my working set that I keep a copy on my
laptop or something, but I'd like backups of. There's other stuff
that's not in my working set that I'd just like to keep around, and I
don't really want to explicitly swap it back in before poking at it

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:32:02 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So basically you want a pony?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:32:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

AFS works reasonably well as this pony (since I can just `git push`
to AFS), but I need to back AFS with something

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:32:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And I want more disk space than I can reasonably get out of MIT.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:32:50 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Isn't there some sort of s3 fuse atrocity?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:33:00 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

(I was speculating about running AFS in AWS as a hack the
other day...)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:38:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

Maybe I should just stick several disks in colo and call it done

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:44:59 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(re GoDaddy) "i've never used them because i always slightly resented
the fact that after seeing their commercial for the first time, their
website did not contain the nude imagery i was expecting."

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:48:26 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Yeah, the need for this sort of thing is why people keep
stuff in colo.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:50:23 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Which does suggest an empty market niche.  Hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:56:03 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

S3+FUSE is almost certainly the wrong answers. Network filesystems
suck. You want syncing filesystems

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 18:56:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

The market niche is filled by Gmail and Dropbox. I just don't want to
use them

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:12:45 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Well, no, if you don't want to use them, the niche is not
filled :->

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:13:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm unconvinced "geofft" is a market.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:21:06 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Everyone is a market.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:27:01 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

The market arguably includes you, me, nelson, broder, and
a bunch of other people with random machines in colo.  "I'm not sure how to
_serve_ that market, though."

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:27:42 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Where do you all keep machines in colo and how much does it cost? I
have a feeling I will be part of this market...

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:28:29 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I don't remember where tribbl.es lives.  My stuff is in a
coop-sort-of-thing in somerville that costs O($100/mo)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:30:42 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

tribbl.es is in Fremont, CA. It's $180/mo for 3U

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:32:30 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I think I can easily beat that (and get more redundancy) by putting
together two or three VPSes, each from a different provider, and some
storage from Amazon. Admittedly tribbl.es is shared

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 19:38:37 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Er, is the tarsnap key not on the public keyservers?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Mon Dec 26 21:17:04 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 22:21:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Okay, so... how _do_ I run tarsnap?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 22:22:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

`tarsnap c` gives me an error if the archive already exists.
Presumably deleting archives is wrong

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 22:22:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the king to the people everywhere: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Do I want to ... write some hokey script in my crontab to keep n days
of archives with `tarsnap cf backup-$(date)` or something?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Dec 26 22:25:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I really like Dr. Sengai Podhuvan's mustache (and general facial
expression)

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Dec 26 22:30:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you should grow one.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:02:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sing O! My WUB O! My WUB my WUB my WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Blah, indecisive about how I want to set this up

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:04:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I have a lot of files that I don't actually need to back up (things
I've downloaded from the web, git repos that I've cloned from
elsewhere), but also a lot of things I do want to back up (commits I
haven't pushed, local files, etc.) among those

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:06:25 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Disk is cheap. Back up everything and don't think about it

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:11:36 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:11:47 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

With the exception of *really* big stuff, just don't worry.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:12:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm. I guess backing up everything I've used on my Debian partition to
tarsnap is only $13/month

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:13:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Backing up my entire 250 GB hard drive would be $75/month, which
isn't quite "cheap"

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:14:35 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I've found that online backup isn't cost effective. My
solution is a combination of dropbox for live-ish data and
rotating external hard drives for ~everything.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:14:57 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Rotating external hard drive is easy on the mac with time
machine, not sure if anything that polished exists for
linux.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:15:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Give ye heed to what we say: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I guess dealing with git is a bit overoptimizing, but backing up
either the directory where I run `apt-get source` on random things or
music that exists on Amazon Cloud Drive feels like a complete waste

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:22:49 2011 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

For a local hard drive, the marginal cost of backup is very
small, and having everything is convenient. I think of
online backup as being primarily about accessibility
(dropbox) and secondarily about recovering from
catastrophic failure.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:29:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

tarsnap doesn't have --update ?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:29:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Mon Dec 26 23:29:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It does have awesome snapshot behavior so that a new archive is
dedup'd relative to the old one, and the old one can then be deleted

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:21:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm.
tyger:/home/geofft geofft$ tarsnap cf home-geofft /home/geofft
tarsnap: fsync(/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/g/e/geofft/.cache/tarsnap-cache): Invalid argument
tarsnap: Error creating new archive

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:22:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forever! And ever! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! HalleluWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... AFS bug?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:22:55 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I would say 'strace' but I don't want to deal with interpreting it
tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:23:00 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is fsync() on AFS even supposed to work?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:23:18 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

kaduk: Does exactly what you think
open("/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/g/e/geofft/.cache/tarsnap-cache", O_RDONLY) = 5
fsync(5)                                = -1 EINVAL (Invalid argument)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:23:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

glasgall: I don't know, but either EINVAL is wrong, or tarsnap should
ignore EINVAL

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:24:05 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

glasgall: there's an afs_fsync internal function that gets called from
my fsync VOP ...

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:24:30 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

OK, then.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:25:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

>>> f = os.open("/", os.O_DIRECTORY)
>>> f
3
>>> os.fsync(f)
>>> os.close(f)
>>> f = os.open("/mit/geofft/", os.O_DIRECTORY)
>>> f
3
>>> os.fsync(f)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument
>>> os.close(f)
>>> f = os.open("/mit/geofft/.k5login", 0)
>>> f
3
>>> os.fsync(f)
>>> os.close(f)

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:29:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

    AFS_GLOCK();

    if ((fp->f_flags & O_ACCMODE) == O_RDONLY) { /* readers dont flush */
        AFS_GUNLOCK();
        return 0;
    }

Doesn't that seem a bit wasteful?

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:30:51 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Enh.  Maybe a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:46:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

multics:~ geofft$ python
>>> os.open("/mit/geofft/", 0)
3
>>> os.fsync(3)
>>> os.close(3)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:48:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But I get the EINVAL on Linerva. Hm, I wonder if I have a Linux
OpenAFS 1.4 machine somewhere... athena.dialup?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:49:12 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

dialups are on 1.14 for the forseeable future.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:49:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No, same thing on athena.dialup (1.4.12). Hm!

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:50:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And same thing on oliver (1.4.8, 2.6.9)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:53:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wonder how much more I feel like debugging before sending in a bug
report

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 00:53:43 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Don't use the /mit paths for the bug report)

Class: geofft Instance: files.d
Time: Tue Dec 27 01:01:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Waait what
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-fuse/

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:31:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Dear desire of every nation, joy of every longing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I appear to be rereading all of 6.824's papers in order. This
probably means I went wrong somewhere and should rewind the yak stack
a bit

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:31:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:33:33 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which is 6.824?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:33:41 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

distributed systems

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:35:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dreidel. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(I'm thinking about the durable-mail pony at the moment, i.e., make
sure my mail is written to at least n > 1 servers/filesystems before
acknowledging it)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:35:53 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Don't you get that through some postfix feature?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:36:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yeah, it's occurring to me this is probably a standard thing that I
don't know how to name properly

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:36:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So my most recent tabs are EC2, HBase, Lustre, Dynamo, 6.824,
ZooKeeper, and now Postfix

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving.d
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:42:23 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/12/biztech/articles/14blue.html

d'aww

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:46:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, I don't really see it.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:48:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

Note that I'm aiming for avoiding single-point-of-failure by having
each of these servers be running an SMTP daemon and listed in my MX
record (so getting consistency and partition-tolerance, and pushing
availability to the sender by just not accepting e-mail if it can't
successfully contact n-1 other hosts), and I don't see a lot about
having multiple postfices synchronized with each other

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 02:51:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Although it occurs to me that I kind of want the mail delivered to
_me_ if possible, even if not acknowledged to the sender... hm

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:16:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Venture Catpital

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:16:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"We're preparing for an Initial Public Meowferring"

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:47:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

I wonder if an EC2 image of Debathena would be useful to anyone

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:51:31 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The subset of people that would care are likely to be able to run the
debathena installer or add the debathena repositories.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:53:41 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Well, I can see it being useful for your average "I want to run
computationally-intensive simulations on Athena" user

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 03:53:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

because it could write files to AFS, and run locker software.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:00:46 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Debathena doesn't take that long to install the base packages...

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:01:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It's true, but it's still effort, so a canned answer might be nice.
(Also, bandwidth costs)

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:02:56 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I still feel as if that particular use case is actually an indication
of failure of MIT to provide sufficient compute resources.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:03:20 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Natum videte regem angeWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It's true that MIT fails miserably at this use case

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:03:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

But nobody at MIT really wants to take ownership of it. IS&T for some
reason doesn't think it's their problem (probably because it's not
profitable)

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:04:24 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'd rather see MIT fix that. I was very disappointed to learn that MIT
doesn't have a supercomputer, whereas in Ohio there's a centralzied
Ohio Supercomputer Center with free access to any prof at a public
university, and way more CPUhours available to actual PIs.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:05:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Advocate for it!

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:05:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(And figure out who will pay for it.)

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:05:53 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"How?" I've already complained to jdreed that this needs to exist and
he explained no department will agree.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:06:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Also, \exists http://www.mghpcc.org/

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:06:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

clearly we should harness the power of all of the people who want to
sponsor hackathons.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:06:28 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

also, we know a syadmin in course 7.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:07:05 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

\not \exists "How to get an account"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:40:05 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Five golden WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

achernyan cat

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:40:18 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I...what?!?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:40:54 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

acherynyanyanyanyanyanyanyanya achernyanyanyanyanyanya,nyanyanyanyanya

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Dec 27 04:41:19 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

do you remember how to make a geofftea?

Class: geofft Instance: nss
Time: Tue Dec 27 05:18:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

There's a function called NSS_SetFrancePolicy? Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: nss
Time: Tue Dec 27 05:21:15 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What does it do?

Class: geofft Instance: nss
Time: Tue Dec 27 05:22:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the night wind to the little lamb: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Enables only the ciphers that the cheese-eating surrender-monkeys are
willing to use
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/pki/nss/ref/ssl/sslfnc.html#1105952

Class: geofft Instance: nss
Time: Tue Dec 27 05:25:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

In related news, having looked at this documentation, I now
understand why nobody's really had the patience to design a
less-sucky command-line cryptography utility.

Class: geofft Instance: nss
Time: Tue Dec 27 05:45:58 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. France has *import* restrictions on crypto? Lame. Or something.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 17:17:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I want to coin the word "omnimaster", for a multimaster setup where
every node is a master. (Is there an existing term for this?)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Dec 27 17:18:08 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Abolitionist multi-master.  (I totally just made that up.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Dec 27 22:03:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wild guessing about the existence of ldap.stanford.edu FTW!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Dec 27 22:04:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Successfully converted an e-mail address in a housing post into a
street address

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Tue Dec 27 23:57:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

All right, ~/Public/castrate-fsync.so ftw

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:08:26 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Uh. Did you already know about eatmydata?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:08:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't think it existed at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:09:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yeah, libeatmydata dates from August 2010, castrate-fsync from
October 2009. (Also castrate-fsync does significantly less)

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:11:55 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Huh, ok.

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:13:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Or no, the Debian package dates to August 2010 (somehow I thought it
was Debian-native). The library itself is from like May 2008 or so?

Class: geofft Instance: files
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:15:40 2011 Host: vulcan.faraone.cc
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

(or perhaps I should find another method of assuring I get my key,
lol)

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:38:03 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

  sleep(1);                                     /* give ptserver room */

Class: geofft Instance: moira
Time: Wed Dec 28 00:38:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

REALLY

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-mass-retranslation-humor
Time: Wed Dec 28 04:17:21 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=16347

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-mass-retranslation-humor
Time: Wed Dec 28 12:06:50 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Nice.
(Didn't the people doing the translation ever watch _Indiana Jones and
the Last Crusade_?)

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:16:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hey people with opinions on messenger bags etc., express opinions

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:17:11 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have a Patagonia "Half Mass", and I like it

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:17:32 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(It's 4 years old and is fine, modulo the loss of one piece of velcro)

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:22:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I want to put a laptop, some papers, maybe a textbook, a charger,
some other electronics, and maybe some other tiny stuff. It'd be nice
for it to be weather-proof. I don't particularly care about it being
TSA-friendly or having a _lot_ of padding (since I have a separate
sleeve), but I wouldn't mind those. I need to attach a water bottle.

Anecdotally, if I use a backpack instead of a messenger bag, I get
RSI. (Apparently my RSI is in my upper arm.) I saw a "messenger bag"
at the store that Internet reviews pointed out wasn't actually a
messenger bag because the strap isn't built-in or something and that
distributes weight differently on your back or something.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:27:05 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

Chrome bags are built really solidly and come in many sizes. they also
have chest strap things for distributing weight across your body that
may help with your upper arm issues

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:27:12 2011 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

they are also really expensive

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:28:04 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the don't have any compartments though, other than a few very small ones in the
front. dunno how much of an issue that would be for you

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:28:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

I _think_ I care more about overall space than compartments.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:28:56 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

a chrome bag is probably reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:29:20 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

or a timbuk2? I don't have one, so I can't say how reasonable they are

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:29:23 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

I'm pretty happy with my timbuk2 bag

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:29:29 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

they appear to be on sale as well

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:29:35 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

I've never owned a chrome bag, so I can't really compare.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:30:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(My current bag has some medicine and other junk in a zipper pocket,
chargers and an inverter and an Ethernet cable in the secondary
pocket, and my laptop and various papers I should deal with in the
main pocket)

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:30:25 2011 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're welcome to look at mine next time you're in E17.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:30:39 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: NS CWR ECE URG ACK PSH RST SYN FIN <nelhage>

A timbuk2 bag will happily fit all the stuff you've listed, is pretty
weatherproof, and I find quite comfortable to wear. Mine has a few
pockets that I find useful for power cables and such.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:31:09 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the pockets in my chrome bag basically fit a wallet and a phone, but that's
about it

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:31:15 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

they're quite small

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:34:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, I am apparently not wearing my current bag (which is probably not
a true messenger bag?) correctly, according to these websites' pictures.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:35:52 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Why do you carry an @i[inverter]?

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 16:36:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Because the times I find myself in a car without a charged cell phone
or laptop are precisely the times where I really, really need a
charged cell phone or laptop

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Dec 28 17:04:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Bring a torch, Jeanette, IsabWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

*sigh* where is my bugtracker

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:25:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, debating between
http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/classic-messenger
http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/command-laptop-messenger
The latter has a separate laptop section, but lower ratings (and is
not on sale so it costs twice as much)

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:37:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"And it's TSA compliant so the Feds really can't stop you. We know
because we've tried."

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:38:51 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

This one from a customer review: "The laptop compartment also serves
as a nice quick access pocket for boarding passes and condoms and
such."

If you are optimizing for quick access to both of those, I am
confused by your lifestyle

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:44:17 2011 Host: vulcan.faraone.cc
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

I do that. Then again, I fly a lot…

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:47:47 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

sometimes you've just got to have sex on airplanes.... a lot?

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:49:03 2011 Host: vulcan.faraone.cc
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

The places that are convenient for storing plane tickets often tend to
be convenient for storing condoms and related. You don't want to be
fumbling through your bag for either when you suddenly have to
produce.

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:51:00 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So, I've recently concluded that the right answer for my boarding
pass is in my hand through the screening process (since otherwise I
leave it in my bag and it gets X-rayed instead of somewhere useful),
back somewhere safe, and then in my hand when I'm waiting to board...

Class: geofft Instance: bags.wq
Time: Wed Dec 28 18:52:22 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I usually stick it in my book, since I'm usually reading as I stand
in line and otherwise wait.

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 19:07:48 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/d-lux-bondage-laptop-messenger
might be what I want. It's closer to the Classic Messenger but does
have a laptop sleeve thing (as opposed to a separate section). "and
is also on sale"

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 19:11:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I am just confused what the third picture is supposed to be of. It's
not the front, it's not the back...

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 19:13:53 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

looking down into the bag?

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Wed Dec 28 19:27:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Er, fourth?

Class: geofft Instance: !edgerton
Time: Wed Dec 28 20:42:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.dearcoffeeiloveyou.com/high-speed-coffee-splash/

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou
Time: Wed Dec 28 20:58:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Okay, this comment is either by afarrell or Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres

Class: geofft Instance: isawyou
Time: Wed Dec 28 21:00:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh, it's afarrell as a character from the Enderverse, that makes way
more sense.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Dec 28 21:52:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'm vaguely tempted to go read the entire database code in one
sitting and see how much I understand of it and add comments all the
way through

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Dec 28 23:10:01 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have fun?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Dec 29 00:48:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Apparently one of the other businesses at the building where Quora is
is one "1800 Jesus Christ LLC".

Class: geofft Instance: okcupid
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:09:04 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Why does OKCupid think that a person's sexuality is worth mentioning
along with their age, gender, and relationship status? If they're
into me (and I've checked the "sorry, I don't do poly" box) shouldn't
it not matter to me if they're potentially attracted to other guys
vs. potentially attraced to other guys or girls?

Class: geofft Instance: okcupid
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:10:12 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And if this to meet a potential friend instead of a romantic partner,
shouldn't I just not care?

Class: geofft Instance: okcupid
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:10:12 2011 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Yea, that one confuses me

Class: geofft Instance: okcupid
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:10:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Maybe I haven't actually sufficiently checked the "sorry, I don't do
poly" box and OKCupid has figured that that's enough of their target
audience to cater to by default? Or maybe I just don't understand
human relationships

Class: geofft Instance: ksploracle
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:15:10 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... "kernel" and "Unbreakable Enterprise kernel" are different
things? And Uptrack only protects one?

Class: geofft Instance: ksploracle
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:15:44 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Maybe "kernel" is the Prominent North American Linux Vendor's kernel
SRPM, rebuilt, and "kernel-uek" is Oracle's secret sauce? That would
vaguely make sense, but only vaguely

Class: geofft Instance: ksploracle
Time: Thu Dec 29 03:16:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

. o O { Can I rebuild a Slightly Less Prominent North American Linux
Vendor's kernel on my own machine with exactly the same toolchain,
and subscribe to _just_ Uptrack on that kernel? }

Class: geofft Instance: ksploracle
Time: Thu Dec 29 06:28:43 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which one does it protect?

Class: geofft Instance: ksploracle
Time: Thu Dec 29 15:42:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sing O! My WUB O! My WUB my WUB my WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

kernel-uek. (At least according to the update mail linked from LWN)

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Thu Dec 29 19:42:57 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Dec 29 19:44:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I dislike quite how much of student group event funding is ultimately
going to "here is our innovative way to provide free food for the MIT
community"...

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu Dec 29 22:34:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Noted atheist and twinkie Christopher Scritchens, author of such
books as "Krotus is Not Great: How Fifth East Destroys Everything",
was deactivated earlier this month. He was 62.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Dec 29 23:34:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/274056/20111229/paul-ryan-sopa-reddit-rob-zerban.htm

"O brave new world, that has such people in it"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:11:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ blanche spartacus
blanche: Insufficient permission to perform requested database access
while getting members of list spartacus

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:51:55 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Sooo... can I swapon a file over NFS? or AFS? or a FUSE file?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:52:04 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Stop hitting yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:52:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Also, didn't you do this already?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:55:58 2011 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Why are you... what the....

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:56:15 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==kaduk

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 00:57:27 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, swapon appears to be failing.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Dec 30 01:29:48 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

scritchens ishthe most twinkie last name ever.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Dec 30 02:12:07 2011 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

stark: Clearly, you're not Spartacus.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Dec 30 02:34:34 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: For unto us a child is bWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No weekly edition until January? DO I LOOK LIKE I PAY YOU $7 A MONTH
TO TAKE VACATIONS? GET BACK TO WORK

Class: geofft Instance: shoes
Time: Fri Dec 30 02:59:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Jouez hautbois, resonnez muWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Okay I just bought these shoes yesterday, why are the laces not
staying tied?

Class: geofft Instance: shoes
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:00:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

they're probably too stiff because they're new

Class: geofft Instance: shoes
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:00:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

but it's only the right shoe...

Class: geofft Instance: shoes
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:01:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the night wind to the little lamb: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm. Having retied it, I suspect that the initial half of tying was
backwards. Also I note that I'm sitting with my legs folded in a way
such that my left foot is over my right. I wonder if I sit like this
all the time and end up kicking my laces open

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:05:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:06:02 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So apparently this company's hours of operation are 8 AM to _midnight_ EST

Class: geofft Instance: credit-card
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:06:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

And apparently that is still closing too early to be useful to me.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:11:50 2011 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

First world problems.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Fri Dec 30 03:14:56 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

o_O

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Fri Dec 30 05:16:45 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://octodex.github.com/nyantocat/

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 06:08:36 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

" For example, in Plan 9, the file /dev/cons refers to the current
process’ standard input and output file descriptors. In a similar
fashion /dev/user reports the user name, and /dev/pid reports the
current process id. This same facility is used by the windowing
system to provide information and control over the process’ window."

wat

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 06:09:52 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is opening some file really the standard way to find your pid?

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 06:10:32 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You can source-dive Plan 9 as well as I can.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 06:14:53 2011 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I was sorta hopeful you knew already.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 06:15:24 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

I don't, and it's not obvious to me from reading this paper, but...
that is what it seems to imply, isn't it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 09:09:03 2011 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Sooo... can I swapon a file over NFS? or AFS? or a FUSE file?
 

oh god.

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 11:03:06 2011 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It would not surprise me at all if opening a file were the way to find
your pid in Plan 9.  Plan 9 wanted to do a lot more through the
filesystem than Unix did.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 14:58:09 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

My understanding is that swap files work by bypassing the VFS layer
entirely and going straight to block. AIUI (and I haven't read the
code), when you swapon a swap file, the kernel looks up the blocks
allocated to that file, increfs them so they don't get GC'd, and uses
the blocks directly for storage

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Dec 30 14:59:11 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, 4.2BSD could certainly swp to NFS.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:01:24 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

My understanding is that the explicitly added support for that use case in
recent linux kernels so that diskless machines could swap over NFS.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:02:36 2011 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Welcome back to  1990 [or whatever].

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:02:42 2011 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: You can't fix stupid. <kcr>

Not to be /pedantic/ or anything, but 4.2BSD didn't do NFS.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:03:58 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

NFS is special for lots of things; I wouldn't be surprised if it was
special for swapfiles, too

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:50:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Aha, that explains
[20875.906672] swapon: swapfile has holes
despite re-making the swapfile without holes

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:51:14 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hajej, nynej, WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't understand why my phone has a world-writable /proc/forcepanic
that does exactly what it claims to...

Class: geofft Instance: 9p
Time: Fri Dec 30 15:52:43 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Oh hm, is 9p the extent of the syscall interface in Plan 9?

Class: geofft Instance: bags
Time: Fri Dec 30 23:11:06 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Bag arrived! Time to clean out the old one...

Class: geofft Instance: bags.d
Time: Fri Dec 30 23:11:26 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I should find a better way to carry toiletries, there's shampoo on a
thumbdrive

Class: geofft Instance: bags.d
Time: Fri Dec 30 23:12:39 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Secretly, the TSA rule of liquids in a plastic bag is a good suggestion.
The limit on the other hand...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Dec 31 01:25:52 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Rudolph with your WUBWUBWUB bright <geofft>

Oh right, I got blood drawn, _that's_ why my arm hurts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:42:53 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... Wikipedia's [[Team Rocket]] article redirects to [[Pokémon crime
syndicates]]? what

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:43:29 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sing O! My WUB O! My WUB my WUB my WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I feel like they are doing penance for having an article about each
Pokémon, or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:46:37 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

It makes sense to consolidate team rocket into general pokemon crime
syndicates.... It's not like Teams Magma/Aqua, Galaxy, or Plasma
deserve their own articles, and you can't consolidate those into one
without adding Team Rocket....

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:47:35 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the king to the people everywhere: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You can certainly do
=== Team Rocket ===
:''Main article: [[Team Rocket]]''
Team Article is the primary villain in the first series of the
[[Pokémon anime]] and in [[Johto]] or something

and call it done.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:48:12 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Would you like to write your own team rocket article and do that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:48:32 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

They didn't do *much*. their plans were less fleshed-out than any
other Team in the games.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Dec 31 03:50:35 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Giovanni (sakaki): Let's steal a bunch of pokemon to help us steal a
bunch more pokemon. Pokemon mafia pyramid scheme gogogo!
Gen 2 team rocket: Let's get Giovanni back so he can remind us how to
be an evil organization!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec 31 05:12:08 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

ASA monad!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Dec 31 05:13:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Recognize :: [Student] -> Constitution -> ASA Group
Derecognize :: Group -> ASA ()

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.summon-tibbetts
Time: Sat Dec 31 18:42:58 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Assuming we do reach a society where gender is obsolete by the year
2500 or something, what is the proper interpretation of "Wives,
submit to your husbands"?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.summon-tibbetts
Time: Sat Dec 31 18:44:01 2011 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: One is cannibalism and the other is disturbing. <wings>

"Ignore it even more than it's ignored now"?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.summon-tibbetts
Time: Sat Dec 31 18:44:09 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"Presumably exactly the same as 'slaves, submit to your masters'" is
a decent answer.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:39:42 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... the Makefile automatically builds a Kindle version of the
documentation? _AWESOME_

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:51:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hm, git commit --author="Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@ldpreload.com>" -s
doesn't do what I want

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:53:15 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

Am I a bad person for adding an autoconf test to find a Linux
function to return zero, instead of writing my own function to return
zero?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:54:14 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: "How in heck can I wash my neck if it ain't gonna rain no more?" asks Farmer Al.
 <rnjacobs>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:55:13 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Because there's already a function to return 0, why reinvent the wheel

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:55:44 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... @i{why}?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 19:57:07 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB que la mère est belle, WUBWUBWUB que l'Enfant est beau <geofft>

One sec, let me remind myself how gerrit works

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 20:01:17 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://gerrit.openafs.org/6491

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 20:05:07 2011 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: it's enough to turn a rainbow shades of gray! - vic
 <rnjacobs>

Oh, ok, the answer I wanted was roughly "function tables"

Class: geofft Instance: ++
Time: Sat Dec 31 20:37:49 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.direnv.net/

Class: geofft Instance: --
Time: Sat Dec 31 20:38:40 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://cacticlock.swizzling.org/

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 31 21:19:28 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Why is aptitude made of stupid?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 31 21:38:17 2011 Host: vulcan.faraone.cc
From: Luke Faraone <lfaraone>

Do tell.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 31 22:19:29 2011 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because you should be using apt-get now

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 31 22:21:05 2011 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

http://packages.debian.org/experimental/apt-cudf

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Dec 31 22:25:46 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The angels sungen the shepherds to: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sat Dec 31 22:54:38 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

geofft@leveret:/afs/athena/user/g/e/geofft$ tokens

Tokens held by the Cache Manager:

User's (AFS ID 40490) rxkad tokens for athena.mit.edu [Expires Jan  1 17:27]
   --End of list--

Is this "rxkad" phrasing new?

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sat Dec 31 23:52:47 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Who are these people singing "Don't Stop Believing"?

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sat Dec 31 23:57:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A thrill of hope the weary world reWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Relatedly, I don't understand why this Christian nation loves "Imagine"

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sat Dec 31 23:57:35 2011 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Because it's by a true American, John Lennon.

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sat Dec 31 23:59:11 2011 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wikipedia: "In the book Lennon in America, by Geoffrey Giuliano,
Lennon commented that Imagine was an 'anti-religious,
anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic [song], but
because it's sugar-coated, it's accepted.'"

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sun Jan  1 00:01:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Christopher Hitchens' brother Peter apparently has called it a
"brainless atheist hymn"

Class: geofft Instance: law.and.cs
Time: Sun Jan  1 00:03:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

"What Colour are your bits?"
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sun Jan  1 00:04:59 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

it pretty much is.

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sun Jan  1 01:00:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gloria in excelsisWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... Oh huh, /r/atheism says that they changed the lyric to "And all
religion is true". O_o

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sun Jan  1 01:08:47 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The Sculpture <phurst>

See: Born in the USA.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jan  1 02:41:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Not exactly.  But sort of.

Class: geofft Instance: tv.new.years
Time: Sun Jan  1 02:52:44 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

to top it off, the Beatles were bigger than Jesus Christ

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jan  1 04:08:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Lullay thou little tiny child, lully luWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_motivator.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  1 04:44:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't understand computers.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  1 04:44:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

How come when I'm using GNOME Shell, the default PDF viewer is
Evince, but when I'm using xmonad, even with gnome-settings-daemon
running, the default PDF viewer (as chosen by gnome-open!) is the GIMP?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  1 04:45:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

What does GNOME Shell do other than run g-s-d?

Class: geofft Instance: else.++
Time: Sun Jan  1 05:08:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ whats spodsa
SPODSA  - Secret Police of the Office of the Dean for Student Affairs (MIT) [presumed defunct]

Class: geofft Instance: else.++
Time: Sun Jan  1 05:09:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Also, apparently MLP:FIM is in whats.

Class: geofft Instance: muslimswearingthings.tumblr.com
Time: Sun Jan  1 05:42:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

Okay, this is the best hijab
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcrtc5FQWs1qet98po1_r1_400.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sun Jan  1 09:44:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Go tell it on the mountain that WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

#debian-devel is totally the debian-devel@ snark channel. And is so
much better than it

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sun Jan  1 09:49:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... aptitude is unmaintained? THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jan  1 09:49:45 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

rxkad is there so rxgk tokens can be idenitifed.

Class: geofft Instance: openafs
Time: Sun Jan  1 09:49:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(to the user)

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 09:53:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Forever! And ever! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! HalleluWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Hey shadow, you did catch that my -1 for my Fedora specfile patch was
in error and it works fine, right?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:03:28 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

so you removed your -1, then, right?

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:27:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

_I_ attempted to, but you gave it a -1? Maybe I'm not understanding
the interface correctly

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:27:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://gerrit.openafs.org/6247

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:35:52 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

hang on, will look

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:36:52 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

fine. i will re-review then

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:37:07 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

marked +1 for now. will give better review later

Class: geofft Instance: openafs.d
Time: Sun Jan  1 10:37:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O little town of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Yay thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:52:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wonder if MIT would work better if the undergrad program were 5 years
long with an enforced break between sophomore and junior year

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:54:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

That sounds terrible for some very academic majors, but my flighty
instincts like it.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:54:20 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "Why are you watching earthquakes on YouTube?"  "I miss home."  - remeyer, wings <wings>

I have this fuzzy recollection of being told by WPIers that you're
forced to take time off to do an internship...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:57:03 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

That's what the engineering departments at Northeastern do

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:57:44 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

The bachelors program is 5 years, and you take a break some time in
(after sophomore year maybe? Or junior year? not sure...) to work at
an internship

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:58:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I think Northeastern has been revisiting that program
lately, and it's not the only way to do things, or
something like that.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 21:58:12 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I do like the general idea.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:00:14 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I've thought that I should have done that.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:00:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

re Liz, I'm okay with the break taking the form of "do a year-long
research assistantship at our university" (under certain conditions)
-- it doesn't seem that far off from doing an internship nearby. But
it's a different pacing and schedule from taking classes semesterly,
and a different type of work

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:01:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I'm just not sure it works for all majors. Some of them can't do
interesting research (possibly only for bs reasons) until after
undergrad. If that doesn't change, it would suck for them.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:02:29 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Now I want to alias redbull='add wings' - ismith <wings>

I'd rather MIT be more encouraging of time off than require it

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:03:22 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I think I would have been unhappy taking a year off in the middle,
even if I spent that time doing research

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:03:37 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Did the eggs keep pooping? NOO YOU LEFT THE TEABAG IN TOO LONG! - apfarr <wings>

(MIT could make the process easier.  At CSULA, you just skip a term of
registering, register later.  At MIT, you have to set it all up with
S^3.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:04:06 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, you hit his ovary with my sperm? - shawest <wings>

(I seem to recall gdb saying you didn't need any special stuff to take
time off and go back to Harvard, too...)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:04:07 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Maybe not? I mean, I certainly enjoyed the summers where I did
research and no classes, but I usually felt like I was ready to take
more classes by the end of the summer

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:04:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Piper: I disagree that it should be easier. I think people really do
need to think that through a lot, but it could possibly be a different
set of hurdles and be more effective.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:04:58 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: The wikipedia article on Timon and Pumba is remarkably comprehensive... - pbaranay <wings>

You might've gotten bigger projects to work on/feel more a part of if
you had more than a summer to work on something?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:06:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You could be careful about it being easier -- e.g., it's an expected
appeal / you don't need to convince anyone of anything if you want to
take a year off anytime between middle of sophomore year and middle
of junior year and you have a plan of what to do, and you have a
form, but other than that the process stays the same?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:07:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Geoff: yeah, I think of that as different.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:08:24 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Perhaps. I certainly don't mean anything negative about my summer
research experiences, since with one exception I did feel like I was
doing a lot and really part of things, and I was happy working like
that. I wouldn't have mourned having to spend a longer time working
full days, either. But typically I'd spending the summer learning
about all these news things I want to learn, and by the time Fall
semester would roll around, I'd be excited to start classes and learn
all those exciting things

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:09:51 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that if you take time off to
spend time working/doing something else, it is easier to get back in
than if you take time off for physical or mental health reasons or for
academic reasons

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:10:15 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I should mention that I actually know very little about taking time
off, but this is the impression I got from talking to people who know
more about it than I do

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:10:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

My _impression_, and I failed to actually do this (==afarrell etc.),
is that if I asked to go on leave, getting back in would have been
routine, but if I were required to go on leave by someone else it'd
be harder

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:11:16 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

That is correct.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:11:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sleep in heavenly WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

At the very least, if I decided not to do the MEng immediately, I
believe I could have just come back at ~any point and said "Hey, you
admitted me to the MEng, remember?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:11:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

People I knew who went on leave for money reasons had no
trouble getting back in, people who left for academic
reaons had to petition to get back in and were often on
light load their first term back.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:11:59 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "Why are you watching earthquakes on YouTube?"  "I miss home."  - remeyer, wings <wings>

Sure.  I'm just arguing that things like "don't register for the terms
you want off, register for the term you're coming back" would likely
lead to more people taking time off.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:12:26 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: sport pilot, because only crashlandings can kill you - peairs <wings>

(I'm assuming things like "good academic standing" for that formula to
work.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:12:52 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm not sure if "go get an internship" would have been
any more the right descision than "join the national guard
and do basic and MOS training."

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:12:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

And one of the things that COC deals with is "I left MIT
because I ran out of money in 1984 and I'd like to come
finish my degree. Please help me build a degree program
that I can complete based on my previous credit."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan  1 22:31:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Go tell it on the mountain that WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Is there a Debian package for "all the Haskell libraries I want"?

Class: geofft Instance: craigslist
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:05:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Five golden WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

All these housing ads are so weird

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:31:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Can someone explain to me how to use this website?

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:31:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Some random subset of people are showing up with a weird layout, and
I can't find their wall

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:32:22 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Every week you're not pregnant, biology cries. - codetaku <wings>

Walls are now timestreams :P

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:32:32 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

It is a game. your goal is to make the "friends" number go up.

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:33:11 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Cruci-Os: Your day can only get better... <wings>

There's a tiny "About" written near the top of those new pages, which
may contain the stalk information you're looking for

Class: geofft Instance: facebook
Time: Sun Jan  1 23:33:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: There is no rose of such virtue as is the rose that bare Jesu: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Not particularly useful

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:40:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Corde natus ex paWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

One day the world will have ZipPlanes and it will be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:41:24 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I eagerly await that day.

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:54:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Rudolph with your WUBWUBWUB bright <geofft>

I want a Dragon Book and the closest university library doesn't open
until Tuesday

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:57:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Too bad nobody you know owns textbooks.

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:57:37 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

there isn't one availiable for the kindle?

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:58:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

jhawk: I asked my mom and she dosn't have a copy, and I don't know
anyone else in the area with textbooks.

afarrell: No.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:58:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Deck the halls with boughs of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I don't really understand why people want cameras

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:59:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I just... never want to take pictures of things.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 01:59:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Really? There are so many things everyday that I want to and fail to.

Class: geofft Instance: cs.ttants
Time: Mon Jan  2 02:10:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Five golden WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

strings
threads

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Mon Jan  2 03:14:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The first Noel the angels did WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I wonder if we'll need Brandon Sanderson to finish TAOCP

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Mon Jan  2 03:18:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Erik Demaine?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 03:44:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The kingdom of this world is now become the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Can I get an X server for Android?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jan  2 06:54:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

This person's life just gets weirder the more you read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shayler

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jan  2 06:56:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...an IRL troll, perhaps?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 10:46:42 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think most people use Xvnc + a VNC viewer

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jan  2 17:59:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

Is there a recommended one? android-vnc-viewer deals with my keyboard
_much_ worse than ConnectBot

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  2 19:21:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Signs that I've been spending too much time on Reddit, partial list:
I'm used to Markdown and not Trac markup now

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:06:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(stark) Oh, haskell-platform.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:07:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

I knew that. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:10:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And his name shall be called: WUBWUBWUB! Counselor! <geofft>

WARNING: cache is out of date: /var/lib/ghc/package.conf.d/package.cache
  use 'ghc-pkg recache' to fix.

...er?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:11:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Shouldn't Debian be taking care of this for me?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:11:45 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think that happens later in the script.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:12:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Go tell it on the mountain that WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

oh, in the postinst? Okay, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:12:18 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

/var/lib/dpkg/info/ghc.{triggers,postinst}

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:12:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Processing triggers for ghc-doc ...
Processing triggers for ghc ...
WARNING: cache is out of date: /var/lib/ghc/package.conf.d/package.cache
  use 'ghc-pkg recache' to fix.

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:29:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Sing O! My WUB O! My WUB my WUB my WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://searchengineland.com/googles-jaw-dropping-sponsored-post-campaign-for-chrome-106348

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:33:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

cf.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22helped+this+small+business+in+vermont%22

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:34:16 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Wait, why did they help so many small businesses in Vermont??

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Mon Jan  2 20:36:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: WUBWUBWUB merrily on high, in heaven the bells are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I assume they're all King Arthur Flour

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:15:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Google autocomplete for "a monad":
a monad is a monoid in the category of endofunctors
a monad for deterministic parallelism
a monad is like a burrito

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:17:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Anyway, the point here is that there are 5 Google results for "A
monad may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a
human being to come to harm"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:17:22 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Nobody ever listens to poor Zathras." --Zathras <pquimby>

Go ask for a monad at Anna's.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:20:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: CA until 1/3 <kdrinkwa>

A super monad, even.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:24:42 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul W. Quimby <pquimby>

"Cheese?"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:43:50 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

http://blog.plover.com/prog/burritos.html

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:44:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

This does not account for tortillas getting soggy or dried out.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:45:22 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Those are clearly bugs in the underlying implementation of the world.

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:45:39 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From:  <pquimby>

fuckyeahnouns.com/geofft has yet to be populated.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:45:55 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Hey, burritos are perfection.

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:46:10 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That's what she said?

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:46:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I don't think fuckyeahnouns.com is working anymore, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:46:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

... that helped me understand join better than I had before.

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:46:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I'm always getting "Fuck yeah didn't find shit"

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:47:21 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Their database stopped existing months ago, right?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:47:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: www
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:47:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

something like that

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  2 21:48:09 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==tibbetts

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:26:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: root <geofft/root>

root@tyger:~# blanche scripts-architect -d STRING:geofft -d KERBEROS:geofft.root
blanche: Warning: default realm "ATHENA.MIT.EDU" added to principal "geofft.root"
root@tyger:~#

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:26:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: And io, io, iWUBWUBWUB by priest and people sungen <geofft>

Now I can run away forever

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:27:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

noooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:27:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I get to turn into you!

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:28:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait, no, I've failed to rewrite parts of our critical infrastructure
in a language only I know. "Hey Alex, give me that back for a second"

Class: geofft Instance: \o/
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:29:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

!@#$%

Class: geofft Instance: \o/.d
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:29:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... okay, what is up with LIST:statd and LIST:stl?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:53:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Yonder peasant, who is he? Where and what his WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

"the processor is just a bunch of gates connected by a series of
tubes. There's the clock chip sitting at one end of the tubes,
spawning little Marios to go a'plumbin'. After Mario dives into the
tubes, it takes a while for him to race around through them, and for
him to do all the twiddling to stabilize things to a predictable and
useful state. So the clock chip waits a bit for that to happen, then
presses continue. In a dual core system, you've got both Mario and
Luigi racing through the series of tubes."

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:56:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've heard worse analogies.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:56:16 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea, this is actually pretty cute.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:56:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm going to have to ask, link?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 22:57:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Cute, but that's a terrible analogy for dual core. That's
more like hyperthreading.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jan  2 23:03:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star with WUBWUBWUB beauty bright! <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/nw34i/what_is_actually_happening_when_my_code_turns/c3cf35a

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Jan  2 23:54:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O Christmas tree! O Christmas tree! How lovely are thy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Matrix is so confused about the Continental/United merger

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Jan  2 23:55:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Whom angels greet with WUBWUBWUB while shepherds watch are WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Every single Continental result also has a United result operated by Continental

Class: geofft Instance: matrix
Time: Mon Jan  2 23:56:13 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I gues you can say it's a glitch in the Matrix?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:00:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

So who actually flies first-class?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you make these questions up, or do they write them down for you? <eichin>

people with status; people spending other people's money.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tu-re-lu-re-WUBWUBWUB, pat-a-pat-a-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(slash business class) Is that just a thing you do when you have
enough extra personal spending money? Or do businesses actually want
to pay that much?

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Random business people whose companies pay for the flights.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:21 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Anything that causes frosh to set each other on fire is fine by me! - geofft <wings>

I do when I get a free upgrade ^_^

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:25 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: dance badly, with abandon <kcr>

near as I could tell, same people who fly coach

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:01:50 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: dance badly, with abandon <kcr>

at least domestically

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:02:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

and trust fund babies.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:02:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I should work on this frequent flier thing, I suppose.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:02:15 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's World's Railways) <eichin>

I've certainly paid for business class flights
myself; the only time I've flown first was on someone else's status
upgrade :-)

Class: geofft Instance: flights.d
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:03:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the king to the people everywhere: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Continental wants me to fill out a captcha to see the fare rules, but
not to book a ticket??

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:05:09 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: dance badly, with abandon <kcr>

technically, but any dubstep was so far down in the mix
it was hard to spot as such

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:06:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Hark how the bells, sweet silver bells all seem to say WUB WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

> the mix
Indeed

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:20:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Fa la la la WUBWUBWUB la la WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tee+time

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:20:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tea+time

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:21:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Both seem reasonable. Assuming TEA isn't an airport code.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:22:44 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is the most handsome sphere. <asedeno>

Both are wrong. They should be:
Tea time - Four o'Clock
Tee time - Fore! o'Clock

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:23:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

== asedeno

I *literally* thought the same thing would have happened.

Class: geofft Instance: more-differently-what
Time: Tue Jan  3 00:25:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Rudolph with your WUBWUBWUB bright <geofft>

"He subsequently changed his name to Jeff Stone and called the
allegations 'utterly ridiculous'.[3] Eckhardt, who legally changed
his name to Brian Sean Griffith following his release from jail, died
of natural causes at age 40 on December 12, 2007.[2]"

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-have-won-a-nobel-prize-and-a-grammy Opcode: partial-list
Time: Tue Jan  3 01:22:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: We three kings of orient WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Barack Obama
Al Gore
Jimmy Carter
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-have-won-a-nobel-prize-and-a-grammy
Time: Tue Jan  3 01:22:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Walking in a winter wonderWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Actually, I wonder if that's a complete list.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 01:53:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Rudolph with your WUBWUBWUB bright <geofft>

You know, I feel like I should find "Man, I wish those people would
commit suicide somewhere more convenient to me" morally repulsive or
something

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 01:56:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

oh, are you in town?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 01:59:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Said the king to the people everywhere: WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:00:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Come, they told me, pa-rum-pum-pum-WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I'll be back in Boston by Thursday afternoon, and depending on how
the housing plot works I might disappear to California for two days
in the middle of IAP

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:05:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Where are you?

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:09:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] How is Chrome relevant to, e.g.,
http://savvyworkinggal.blogspot.com/2011/12/is-on-line-presence-necessary-for-small.html?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:20:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Parent's home

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:20:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The boar's head in hand bring I bedecked with WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

er, plural.

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:20:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

It's not.

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:21:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I heard the bells on Christmas day their old familiar WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

(Which is why the article argues that these people who make Chrome
are dirty linkspammers and should get banned from Google)

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:21:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, T see that blog post made that point too.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:27:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I had a little dubstep. I made it out of WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Squares Patrol

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:27:39 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Awww, adorable emo optimistic black souled piper. - lexrj <wings>

Yes!

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:27:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: All the way home I'll be WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

If you get hit, you die. If your square falls apart, you _all_ die

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:28:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Or better yet, if you get hit, you stay in place for five seconds.
The winner is the square that keeps dancing as long as possible

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:30:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: CA until 1/3 <kdrinkwa>

That actually sounds like an interesting game. You/we/someone should
playtest that, maybe adjust the time interval as needed, then propose
it for hack tips.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:41:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Here we come a-WUBWUBWUB among the leaves so WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

kvm : kernel-based virtual machine :: kcr : kernel-based carriage return

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:42:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That would be an impressively fast carriage return ...

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:42:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: People look east! The time is near of the coming of the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Well, it's a system for full justification on Linux. One can also
imagine some other solutions for parajustification that would be even
faster

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:43:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

muahaha

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:44:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

One might even imagine some situations in which parajustification
produces a more pleasing result.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:45:17 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Is that where you drop blocks of text out of a plane in order to line 
them up? Is it like Tetris at all?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:46:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Wait, sentence Tetris sounds like it would actually be a fun Flash game.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan  3 02:47:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Joy to the WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

You line up words, and if they make grammatical sense from left to
right, they get removed. "But maybe I only find this interesting
because I've been reading about parsers"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 03:07:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

How about "Man, I wish these people would commit suicide somewhere less
emotionally scarring to the conductors"?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 03:07:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

... well, okay

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jan  3 03:09:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Man, I wish these people wouldn't commit suicide"

Class: geofft Instance: old-sipb-minutes
Time: Tue Jan  3 03:51:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: So bring us some figgy WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

wdaher: I used scripts to migrate the lmf wiki to scripts, and
        it has made my love life 5x better.  5*0 is still
        zero, though.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jan  3 06:05:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: In the bleak midWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

I just find Calvinism too convenient. I'm not sure this is an objection.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jan  3 06:06:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Believe in Jesus? Yay, you were elect. Good person who doesn't? You
weren't elect, sucks to be you, all humans are totally depraved and
only the elect get to be saved, glory to God.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jan  3 06:07:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Star of WUBWUBWUB, star of light! <geofft>

Like, it just makes the question "What must I do be saved" totally
meaningless. If you happen to be Christian, you were supposed to be
Christian. If you happen not to be Christian, you weren't supposed to
be Christian.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jan  3 06:10:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Tomorrow shall be my dancing WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Not like Arminianism doesn't have its own share of problems. Don't
believe in Jesus? God can't do anything about that until you do,
sucks to be God.

And the alternatives (Molinism, universalism) are just weird.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan  3 06:26:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O tidings of comfort and WUBWUBWUB comfort and WUBWUWUB <geofft>

Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:51:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Timothy G Abbott <tabbott@MIT.EDU>
To: linerva@MIT.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62L.0608132349090.27391@quiche-lorraine.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

From a security point, it's attractive to be able to run a 2.4.x kernel, 
since all the linux local root exploits that keep coming out tend to be 
for 2.6.x only.

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Tue Jan  3 07:46:09 2012 Host: vulcan.faraone.cc
From: Luke Faraone <lfaraone>

I do, but that's only if there's space-available :P

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Tue Jan  3 20:46:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: O come let us aWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

lo mein
LogMeIn

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 21:38:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Grandma got run over by a WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

https://plus.google.com/109412257237874861202/posts/NAWunDzJSHC

Chrome no longer shows up on a search for "browser", and has been
penalized for 60 days

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Tue Jan  3 21:40:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Noel! Noel! Noel! NoWUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Project Manager for IT Operations? Hm, where is that in the org chart?

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 21:40:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Gaude! Gaude! Emmanuel nascetur pro te WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

[starking to yesterday, to be clear]

Class: geofft Instance: google.ldots
Time: Tue Jan  3 21:55:59 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

I have no words either.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan  3 22:17:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Go tell it on the mountain that WUBWUBWUB <geofft>

Vaguely tempted to give up on doing other work today and just deal
with my inbox

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:03:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aww, barnowl segfaulted at 348413 zephyrs.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:04:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's a bit less than 10x more than I ever had in a barnowl.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:06:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I've got some 193k in my largest one at the moment, but I'm pretty
sure I've surpassed 400k at some point.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:09:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I appear to be just shy of 182K in my largest. I appear to be running
four.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:57:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, XVM's legendary 3-minute autoinstall just took me an hour. Wonder
what I'm doing wrong

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:57:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They've been getting slower recently. I blame people actually using
XVM.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:58:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, I've not seen a 3-minute autoinstall.

Class: geofft Instance: xvm
Time: Wed Jan  4 01:59:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think when I installed double-vision it took 15 minutes. And that
was right before XVM went down-down-down during Summer.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 02:33:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, one or more of sort, awk, or comm is confusing me

Class: geofft Instance: wait,what
Time: Wed Jan  4 03:52:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tyger:/home/geofft/src/linerva/linerva geofft$ logout
Connection to tyger closed.
dr-wily:~ geofft$ logout
Connection to linerva closed.
tyger:~ geofft$

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Jan  4 03:55:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I still want cpd(1)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Jan  4 03:56:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's that?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Jan  4 03:58:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The hypothetical command-line tool to config-package-dev that lets you
use it like a VCS.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Jan  4 03:58:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So you can say "cpd add /etc/foo.conf", "cpd rebuild", "cpd st", etc.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Jan  4 05:39:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the weirdest kitchen ever... (from some Craiglist ad)
http://cdn.vflyer.com/r3/prodinsts/3/0/1/4/7/9/6/images/121284006_max.jpg
Shouldn't there be... countertops? maybe a dishwasher? Also what is
with that sink?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Jan  4 05:45:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A completely unrelated apartment search website has a rotating thing
on the home page, one of the pictures is of a frustrated guy captioned
"No! You will not need a degree from M.I.T. to use our website"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Jan  4 05:46:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://apartmenthunterz.com/images/banners/home-small-05.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Jan  4 05:58:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, here's my old apartment.
  http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/abo/2772757196.html
It's awesome, if you're looking for a 3-4BR in East Cambridge you
should take it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan  4 06:43:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> melatonin and loud alarms will help me dayshift, right

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan  4 06:49:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, wait, I pulled out my phone for something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan  4 06:52:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oh!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan  4 06:57:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ok, -> actually sleep

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jan  4 18:30:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

X Shape extension
X Snape extension

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jan  4 18:31:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

<snerk>

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jan  4 18:43:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I should figure out what good hacking cafes on the other side
of the Charles are

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Wed Jan  4 18:54:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Installing a newer version of AFS in ~ may not have been the
smartest decision

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:04:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should get in the habit of using rsync -av instead of cp -a

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:33:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Boston Security Meetup is offering me a pack of my favorite beer.
What should I ask for?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:33:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Left Hand milk stout! Wait, that's my favorite beer.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:34:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Note that I'm probably honestly not going to drink it)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:34:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, how wrong would it be for me to leave it in SIPB's fridge?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:36:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

probably not a good idea.
[I don't know what the various authorities think about alcohol in
W20/student group offices in general, but I can't imagine they will be
thrilled about it being in a location frequently used by under-21s.]

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:37:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

"meh" I've seen the UA office.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:38:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

(does it have to be beer?  I, and several other people I know, don't
really drink beer often but prefer cider to fill the "casual alcoholic
drink" slot)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:39:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't know?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:39:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

maybe I can just ask for a pack of $interesting_soda instead.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:40:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

i,i "my favorite beer is the 'root' variety"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 19:40:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i "I feel like asking a security meetup to just give me 'root'
won't go over well"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:05:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear Continental^WUnited^WContinental, it sure would be nice if you
considered my confirmation number valid

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:05:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, apparently I just need to click twice

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:07:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really, my name is Geoffreyg Thomas? kwality

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:08:19 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

I traveled from Cleveland to Chicago to Istanbul, and vice versa, and
on three flights interior to Turkey, all on tickets that said my
entire name was "Herdeg McGraw".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:08:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Best travel agency ever.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:08:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"United Continental Merger
        Continental and United have merged but continue to operate as
separate airlines until the FAA regulatory process is complete. Some
aircraft operated by Continental may have the United name during this
period. "

what that doesn't even make sense

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:09:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

They're repainting all the planes to say "United" on the outside. On the radio,
air traffic control refers to all their flights as "United 397" (or
whatever the flight number is), regardless of whether the pilot &
flight attendants are working under the United union contract or the
Continental union contract.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:12:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

You can imagine the confusion of a once-a-year traveler at getting a
Continental ticket, flying on a Continental 737-800 piloted by
Continental pilots and managed by Continental gate agents, and then
looking out the window at their airplane and seeing it say "United"
on the tin.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:21:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, why is printing not Just Working?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:23:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~$ avahi-browse -a -t
+  wlan0 IPv6 leveret                                       Remote Disk Management local
+  wlan0 IPv4 leveret                                       Remote Disk Management local
+  wlan0 IPv6 leveret [4c:ed:de:a9:0a:7f]                   Workstation          local
+  wlan0 IPv4 leveret [4c:ed:de:a9:0a:7f]                   Workstation          local
+  wlan0 IPv4 canon-printer                                 Web Site             local
+  wlan0 IPv4 canon-printer                                 _scanner._tcp        local
+  wlan0 IPv4 canon-printer                                 UNIX Printer         local
+  wlan0 IPv4 canon-printer                                 _canon-bjnp1._tcp    local

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:23:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"also what is this Remote Disk Management service doing"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:23:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I run `sudo /usr/lib/cups/backends/dnssd`, it mostly finds it. But
only mostly. And despite browsing being on, CUPS hasn't autoconfig'd
the printer

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Jan  4 21:35:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I am vaguely unconvinced this thing speaks LPD

Class: geofft Instance: terminal
Time: Thu Jan  5 08:46:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Attention passengers. TSA has--"
"GOOD MORNING WELCOME TO CONTINENTAL FLIGHT.."

Class: geofft Instance: terminal
Time: Thu Jan  5 08:47:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was amused by the timing of cutting off the automated announcement

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan  5 08:47:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> IAH

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 10:44:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, all right, Herdeg, I do agree that a Continental flight with only
"Continental" mentioned or visible inside or at the gate on a plane with
the Continental globe painted on the tail and the name "United Express"
on the side is a little weird

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:05:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a hipster here taking a picture of her packaged sushi using a
fancy Canon DSLR or something.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:06:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Canon DSLR

You spelled Polaroid wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:07:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

She's probably going to upload it to her food blog on Tumblr

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:08:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder how awkward a question "Excuse me madam, but what is your food
blog's URL" is

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:09:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Do you really care about a bunch of pictures of packaged sushi?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:15:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, I just find it funny

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:17:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've taken photos of non-pacakged sushi with my Canon DSLR before. Is
it that odd?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:19:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno, are you a hipster with a food blog?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:19:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Wait, wait.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:23:44 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Ohly if you decide to call flickr a blog.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan  5 11:39:00 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I also don't think I'd call Alex a hipster.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:48:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I no longer have a good key to bind to xmonad's scratchpad

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:48:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

did it break, or did you find you needed that key?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:50:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On my MacBook Pro, there was this convenient useless Enter key to the
right of the spacebar (keypad enter, distinct from the Return key to
the right of the apostrophe)

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:50:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And somehow on my netbook, right-control was acceptable. But I find
myself using right-control-Pg{Up,Down} with Firefox

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:50:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I now have the, uh, application key?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:51:32 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Numlock/scrolllock?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:52:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Uh. Hm. Do I _have_ a numlock key? I don't think so

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:52:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or scroll lock.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:53:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We'll see how happy I am with XK_Menu

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:53:57 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... Wait, what netbook is this?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:54:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No no, leveret is a Toshiba laptop. I'm just confused why right-Ctrl
was okay on my netbook but _not_ on this machine

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 18:55:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's a fly on the wall. Hi, fly!
 <rnjacobs>

... weird. More weird is that a not-netbook is missing both of those lock keys.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Thu Jan  5 19:33:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

okay why is evince segfaulting on all the PDFs. and xpdf too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan  5 21:52:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

blah, too tired. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Fri Jan  6 11:06:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, thing I realized reading Chesterton: "personal God" means "a
God who has attributes of a person", not "a God who is yours
personally". I wonder which sense "have you accepted Jesus Christ as
your personal Lord and Savior" really intends; I've been assuming the
latter

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan  6 11:13:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> SIPB
Todo today:
[ ] some ASA stuff
[ ] some linerva stuff
[ ] some thesis stuff

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:48:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey Zephyr, I hear some of you might know more about polyamory or
even relationships in general than I do, or at least have stronger
opinions. Thoughts on this passage? (Admittedly pulled a bit out of
context)

"I could never mix in the common murmur of that rising generation
against monogamy, because no restriction on sex seemed so odd and
unexpected as sex itself. To be allowed, like Endymion, to make love
to the moon and then to complain that Jupiter kept his own moons in a
harem seemed to me (bred on fairy tales like Endymion's) a vulgar
anti-climax. Keeping to one woman is a small price for so much as
seeing one woman. To complain that I could only be married once was
like complaining that I had only been born once. It was
incommensurate with the terrible excitement of which one was talking.
It showed, not an exaggerated sensibility to sex, but a curious
insensibility to it. A man is a fool who complains that he cannot
enter Eden by five gates at once. Polygamy is a lack of the
realization of sex; it is like a man plucking five pears in mere
absence of mind."

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:51:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

That attitude seems really weird to me. AIUI, poly is really more
about having unique, individual relationships with multiple people,
not about having five times as much undifferentiated sex. So it's
like having five different kinds of fruit, not five pears.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:53:09 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: this is my world and i am world leader pretend <jessiehl>

== kdrinkwa

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:53:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It's also curious because it seems so...objectifying of women.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:54:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

And even for people who are not strictly poly*amorous* but are just
into having lots and lots of casual sex, I'm not seeing why that's
bad. Though that is a short quote.

==jhawk too. Or "objectifying of sex partners in general", although
considering the time, it makes more sense to read it as "women"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:55:07 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I think it is partly objectifying women specifically, in that it's
assuming they're all _equivalent_, which only makes sense if the
author is thinking of sex partners as just sex objects, and not people
who are obviously distinct.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 12:55:59 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I read it as "if you're disappointed in monogamy because you want to
be able to have sex with more than one person, you're putting too much
emphasis on the sex part of the relationship"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:00:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

> complaining that I had only been born once.

It seems entirely reasonably to wish that you could get to live
multiple times and have different experiences each time. So this
analogy falls pretty dman short of making his point, for me.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:03:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(If you're curious,
http://www.sdsmith.net/2011/09/01/dont-look-a-winged-horse-in-the-mouth/
has a little more of the context, and a link to a .txt file
containing the whole thing -- it's out of copyright now -- but it
kind of really only completely makes sense if you've been following
the entire chapter)

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:03:54 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<She pushes her hand around in the dirt, trying to find magical inspiration. (Hitherby Dragons, writing starts in January. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

It sounds to me like he's saying "sex is so wonderful that if you
want sex with more than one person, you're just being greedy",
ignoring any non-sex reasons for being in a relationship.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:04:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Hrm. Ok. Here's my take:

This passage seems to me to be written by someone who believes pretty
strong a priori that monogamy is the default state, and is arguing
that polyamory is not sufficiently awesome to overcome the activation
barrier of doing something different. It is not actually an argument
that monogamy is superior to polyamory on its own merits.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:05:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

He appears to be portraying his view as that monogamy is not even the
default, but one is more than sufficient.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:06:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

That's what he *thinks* he's saying, but it's not actually what his
words are saying, to me.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:06:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

> Keeping to one woman is a small price for so much as seeing one
> woman.

e.g. that sentence only makes sense to me if have the a priori
assumption that that price exists.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:08:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

He's attached to the status quo, and is defending the fact that he's
too intellectually lazy to seriously consider changing it.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:09:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

His whole argument is about how monogamy is "good enough", not
"better".

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:10:35 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

xavid:  So, it seems to me that it's likely relevant that he was a
Catholic (though maybe not yet when he wrote that?), and that the
Catholic Church does put a lot of theological emphasis on sex being
spiritually significant in a way that kind of makes it the point of a
relationship: marriage exists to allow humans to create life through a
physical expression of love, thus an unconsumated marriage is invalid,
and so on.  So I'm guessing a lot of it is that he just _is_ treating
sex as much more important than it seems from a modern secular
standpoint.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:14:56 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: @<...mustn't it be a peculiarly beautiful feeling to hit bottom in reality at least once, where there is no going down any further, but only upward beckons at best? (I Am Thou, IAP2013? Quoting Carl Jung)> <xavid>

I don't know my Catholic dogma, but I'd always got the impression
that to Catholics sex was supposed to be for the sake of having kids,
and that sex for its own sake wasn't good.  And there are lots of
non-sex-focused commitments in the standard marrigage ritual, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:15:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

He's writing this as an example in the midst of a longer passage
describing his thoughts that led him to becoming Catholic. So he's
probably writing this particular example from the point of already
being Catholic, yes

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:15:28 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Sex other than to have kids is wrong.  But I believe that a marriage
where you don't intend to have sex is also wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:17:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

xavid: I think they'd prefer to phrase it as sex for its own sake is
good and also sex is inherently about (potentially) having kids.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:18:21 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Also, the other commitments in marriage are at least partly related to
creating a stable family that is thought to be optimal for raising
kids.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:19:02 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

So, basically, marriage is a set of practices related to properly
raising kids, and thus to the mechanism by which God permits us to
participate in the miracle of creating life?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:20:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I, uh, maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:21:02 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*summons an actual Catholic*  (I'm not sure I can actually think of
any on Zephyr, weirdly.  I'm used to the fact that at Caltech, all my
Christian friends were Catholic, basically, so the sea of Protestants
here is a bit disorienting.)

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:21:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

Particularly the latter half of the quoted passage certainly seems to
be making the point that sex is more important than people
realize--I'd agree with "spiritually significant" (although I wouldn't
go as far as "the point of a relationship").  
Certainly the part about non-monogamy showing a curious insensitivity
to sex backs this up--I read it as basically "look, you have a great
thing here, and it's special.  By doing it with multiple people, you
make it less special, and thus not recognizing its importance."

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:25:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Yeah, I read it as "Sex is awesome; you're lucky if you can find one
partner. Enjoy it with that one partner; seeking out others means
you're not truly appreciating it as much as you could be"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:26:14 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Sort of like he's claiming you could either go to the fancy restaurant
with nice food in small portions, or you can go to the crappy buffet

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:27:10 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

But you shouldn't be forbidden from visiting other restaurants, no?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:27:27 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

"Life is just one visit to a restaurant"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:29:18 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

== ezyang in this case

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:30:17 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

was using food as a metaphor for sex/relationships and restaurant as a
metaphor for how you choose to live your life, so visiting other
restaurants would be like living multiple times, which would be
awesome, but kind of tangential to the point of the passage

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:30:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

or I guess changing lifestyle, which I assume Chesterton isn't against

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:31:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... didn't we have this conversation in October? about C.S. Lewis?

Class: geofft Instance: chersterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:31:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Whoa whoa whoa

Class: geofft Instance: chersterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:32:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

shit mix

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:32:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

whoa whoa, guys, your interepretation of the catholic church's
standpoints on this seem really distant and textbook

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:35:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I will agree that a lot of their views on sex are irrationally taken
to extremes (no using birth control as medicine to aid future
fertility even if totally unrelated to preventing pregnancy, etc.), but
every Catholic monk, priest, nun I've ever met has *never* claimed that
sex is only for reproduction.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:36:51 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Doesn't sex not for reproduction counter the idea of not using birth
control?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:36:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

"Sex as an important way to help strengthen the marriage itself even
when it doesn't produce children" is held as a strong value.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:37:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

There are hardly restrictions to "you can only have sex when you're
probably fertile".

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:38:11 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Since if you're not using birth control, it might as well be for
reproduction?

Actually, I guess there are cases where the couple can't conceive, and
so the claim is that it's still okay for them to have sex

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:38:42 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

So "Sex should be for reproduction, unless you can't reproduce"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:38:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

The catholic church endorses pulling out and the calendar method, no?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:38:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, my understanding of that was that that's a "because you can still
have kids anyway, cf. Abraham and Sarah, but you can't have sex in a
way that explicitly confounds fertility, like using contraceptives"
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:39:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I ... do not believe the Church endorses pulling out. That's called
"the sin of Onan", right?

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:39:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: can't sleep; books will eat me.  Also, I lost the game. <kcr>

It's the actual sin of Onan, not what is usually
called that, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:39:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I really think that the spirit of Catholic laws on this and the rules
are disconnected, but I really don't think you'd meet many figures
who believe that sex is only, hell even primarily, for reproduction.
Reproduction is important, but I haven't felt like it was the /only/
goal to all sex in Catholic marriages. "And I've had to sit through 4
years of listening/discussing this and did a hell of a lot of arguing
with them this."

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:40:14 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Sort of.  And a big part of the reason is that (they believe) it's bad
for you to have sex without being welcoming to children.  And bad for
any kids that do happen that way.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:41:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: True.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:41:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Yeah, the Catholic church is very supportive (good word Luke) of pulling
out and calendar methods. And of couples who use those aggressively to
not conceive. They do advocate that all marriages should incorporate
children at some point, but hardly that it has to happen right away or
you shouldn't be having sex.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:41:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:43:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Note that I didn't grow up somewhere particularly liberal (though
probably liberal compared to the Pope himself) and everything I was
taught/discussed fits the letter of Catholic law.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:43:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

oh, I guess Luke used "endorsed". Well, both are true.

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:44:46 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I don't know exactly what Catholic dogma is, but there are certainly passages of
the Bible where Paul says that if you're not having sex with your wife and
bringing her pleasure (not saying anything about kids), you're doing it wrong

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton.roomq
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:45:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lfaraone, on seeing my copy of _Orthodoxy_: "You're going into
orthodonty???"

Class: geofft Instance: chesterton.roomq
Time: Fri Jan  6 13:54:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jhawk is now critiquing the layout/typesetting of my book

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.floating-point
Time: Fri Jan  6 15:36:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

i,i "You have 2.9999979e+02 seconds remaining"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.floating-point
Time: Fri Jan  6 15:39:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I "no, mr. bond, I expect you to die"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jan  6 16:10:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Zephyr, help me explain to lfaraone what Steer Roast is. Or
really what Senior House is.

Class: geofft Instance: irc.ttants
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:18:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

m-i-t (module-init-tools, I think?)
MIT

Class: geofft Instance: martlet
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:23:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Okay, what happened to my phone's battery

Class: geofft Instance: martlet
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:23:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It lasts like half a day.

Class: geofft Instance: martlet
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:23:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Entropy.

Class: geofft Instance: martlet
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:25:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I think the relevant change I made was to ... get K-9 to poll less often?

Class: geofft Instance: martlet
Time: Fri Jan  6 18:25:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It's also relevant that I tried to use my phone both yesterday and
today from the bowels of the green line, maybe it just exhausted its
charge trying to get to the network?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:24:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I want opinions :(

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:24:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Can we have a flamewar? It's better than silence

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:27:50 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Fact not found. <asedeno>

Meh. The salted hash identd sounds fine to me.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:27:53 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

On the identd?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:28:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

identd, upgrade plans, 32-bit compatibility, ...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:28:41 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Original Heads Shazam <kchen>

It'd be nice if you could restrict it to Freenode IPs, but I'm
guessing that's not really feasible.  I'd agree on restricting to the
IRC port that you mentioned earlier.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:29:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

hm, I can ask about that too.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:30:01 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Sides (In Your Wave) Mix <kchen>

(If you can't restrict it to Freenode IPs, I'm not sure that I have
much of an opinion either way.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:30:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

identd: why a hash and not a reversable, salted transform (some sort
of crypto)
upgrade: do it faster
32-bit: kill it.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:31:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

(because debian biarch scares me)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:31:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I think it's secretly actually a short encryption, but not a hash

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:31:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

er, s/but//

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan  6 21:33:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

But I think authenticated encryption provides all the things you want
out of a hash (preimage resistance, strong collision resistance,
non-malleability)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan  6 22:42:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

mit-sipb-copyright.h!

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.q
Time: Fri Jan  6 23:44:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"Dear Thomas,"

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 00:09:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I want to host dynamic DNS for my laptop on my domain. (The domain is
currently served straight by sipb-dns, but I can delegate it to a VM
running ~anything.) Is there something prepackaged in Debian to take
care of the client and server here?

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 00:35:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: "Move along! Nothing to see here!"
 <rnjacobs>

I have a cname to a yi.org hostname and use ez-ipupdate to that.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 00:53:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Yeah, apparently the answer to all my computing problems is to not
insist on running everything myself

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 00:54:20 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Explode The Line <kchen>

BIND as the server and nsupdate (in the dnsutils package, which
appears to be part of BIND) should do it.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 00:54:55 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Wheel & Deal & Spread <kchen>

But if you were still planning to use sipb-dns, then that probably
wouldn't work without additional server configuration.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan  7 01:53:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

This project's excuse for a build system confuses me so much

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan  7 01:55:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Isn't it debathena's? Mostly?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan  7 11:36:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It's like you took Debathena's build system and then promptly forgot
about it

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jan  7 11:49:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Except for the bit where it almost sounds like I need to set up a
Kerberized DNS server, nsupdate is what I want, thanks

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd.alt-text
Time: Sat Jan  7 15:03:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 15:57:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

rms++

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 15:57:56 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You said that on not-the-unclass? Okay...what happened...

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 15:58:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

https://lists.csail.mit.edu/pipermail/csail-related/2012-January/006885.html

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:05:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:05:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:10:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

==nelhage
Granted, it's much better than his usual emails to the list.  That
said, I just...don't think it's a very good joke.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:11:40 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pull By <kchen>

==dwilson.  The FreeBSO part is slightly funny to me, but the joke
doesn't really go anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:12:22 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: As Couples 1/4 Out <kchen>

(and I don't the transformation of Linux seems random)

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:12:25 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Wheel & Deal & Roll <kchen>

s/I don't//

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:14:55 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think It's supposed to be "Lin-Orchestra", or Linorx.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:15:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

But really, it's just terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:20:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I really tried to convince myself that it was a forgery.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:22:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

I recall him sending similer emails in the past.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:44:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"The idea of putting HowToGAMIT (in lieu of printing) on the Web had
been considered in last year, but rejected since because the
contributors felt that incoming freshmen would rather have a physical
guidebook they could carry around campus and around town than be
required to learn how to use a Web browsing program."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:45:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

how old is that quote?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sat Jan  7 16:45:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

'95. (rjbarbal.)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Jan  7 18:15:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

The Campaign for Students is recognized by the Association of
Student Activists

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jan  7 20:38:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

We're trying to figure out how best to troll the registrar.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jan  7 20:38:22 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "Racism is making me ageist against old people."  "Yeah, well old people smell funny.  And are black."  - wings, geofft <wings>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jan  7 20:38:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

We've given up on having Luke fill out an add form for 6.001, and
have instead decided to try registering for negative units for a
units-arranged class in an attempt to cancel out tuition.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jan  7 20:48:50 2012 Host: 18.111.111.127
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

If you only register for negative units, does MIT give you money?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jan  7 20:52:42 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Its been placed on the board.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jan  7 23:29:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm always confused at groups that run events with equivalent groups
at other colleges that ask for ~all their funding from MIT. Is it
actually that there are funding sources at MIT that don't have
reasonable parallels in other schools?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jan  7 23:30:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

MIT puts a lot of effort into student activities.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jan  7 23:30:29 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: I HAVE LONG LEGS!  MY ASS CONCEALS NOTHING! - apfarr <wings>

I don't think you could get any student group funding at CSULA

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sat Jan  7 23:31:09 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic With Benefits - ismith <wings>

(Well, other than academic departments, if it was an academic club)

Class: geofft Instance: huh
Time: Sun Jan  8 00:10:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Apparently I'm a Real Open Source Hacker now. rsync.net automatically
gave me a discount to thank me for my "contributions to the FOSS
community".

Class: geofft Instance: huh
Time: Sun Jan  8 00:10:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I have no idea what contributions these are

Class: geofft Instance: huh
Time: Sun Jan  8 00:14:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(discounts for FOSS hackers are a thing, documented on their website)

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:43:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I like how foreign speakers think "fun" and "funny" are variants of
the same word

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:43:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Aren't they?

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:43:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"not anymore"

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:44:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I guess you must mean something by 'variant' that is different
from what I expect.

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:45:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Specifically, they think that if they want to say that fun is a
property of something (like an activity), it is a funny activity.

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:45:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

As opposed to realizing the adjective form of "fun" is "fun", and
"funny" has a different meaning

Class: geofft Instance: english
Time: Sun Jan  8 01:47:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Oh, sure, I know what you *meant*

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Jan  8 02:52:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Apparently adehnert and I both independently confused "Sloan" and
"Stanford"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Jan  8 02:52:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Also why is the Sloan website snowing

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Jan  8 02:54:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because Business isn't supposed to make sense.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Sun Jan  8 02:59:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Also, according to the Wikipedia article, Sloan is well known for
developing, among other things, theory X and theory Y.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan  8 03:20:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

[X] some ASA stuff

All right, I can get on with the rest of ... Friday

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan  8 04:23:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan  8 04:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

right, item 2 on that list involves being at SIPB.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan  8 04:24:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Which is mostly why I set out for SIPB yesterday and today, and
promptly proceeded to punt strenuously

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:31:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I think I've had "Jenny Was A Friend of Mine" stuck in my head for...
over a week

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:34:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"When this comes up again in 5 years, the then-chair can say 'what's
zephyr?' ..."

(tibbetts, '06)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:39:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

What's "this"?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:41:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Sponsorship of the account of someone maintaining a zephyr utility.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:41:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(I'm pretty sure ~nobody uses the _utility_ any more, but I'm amused
at the presumption that we'd all move off zephyr itself in 5 years)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:43:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

at the time it seemed more dying than it is now...

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 05:43:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

and there was the whole "jabber will replace zephyr!!11" fad too.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan  8 06:02:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

This documentation leaves a little to be desired, don't you think?

http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/mtl/latest/doc/html/Control-Monad-State.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  8 06:06:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(stark)
aha ahaha HAHAHAAHA

> However, I read on your website that you're religious. I'm unaware
> of the implications alcohol has on your religion, so out of respect,
> I'm going to tell Shane to NOT purchase a case of beer for you unless
> you specify otherwise. 

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan  8 06:08:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Also, crap, I have 60 people RSVP'd for this

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan  8 08:36:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I mean, IIUC, C.M.S just re-exports C.M.S.Lazy, which it links, and which has real docs:

http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/mtl/latest/doc/html/Control-Monad-State-Lazy.html

So it's actually pretty reasonable, just confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sun Jan  8 09:14:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

eddietwo!
YOu don't think tibbetts was being literal, do you? I didn't think so at the time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan  8 17:19:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Well there goes that dayshiftedness

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jan  8 22:32:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It's apparently easier for me to wake up promptly if it's dark outside?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jan  8 22:32:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Like I will go back to sleep if it's light more easily than if it's dark?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jan  8 22:33:09 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

You feel like it's late enough and therefore you need to get up?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jan  8 22:33:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm not sure. I noticed that I woke up promptly last Sunday after
exactly 8 hours (on my own, too, I think) after getting stupidshifted
such that I fell asleep around 1pm

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Jan  8 22:33:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

and I was explicitly okay with sleeping longer than that.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:45:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Why can't I specify UNIX sockets as forwarding target addresses?

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:46:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

ssh -L12345:/path/to/sock server

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:48:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

A singular lack of vision on the part of the ssh authors.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:50:00 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: confrontational hedgehogs <eichin>

does sound useful. (you could double-forward using
socat, but that's not all that helpful)

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:51:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

The point here is that I want to SSH to a machine and forward
something that I can connect to via localhost:12345, but I don't want
everyone on the machine to be able to connect to it, too

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:51:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

If I proxy the UNIX socket using socat, then everyone on the machine
can connect.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Sun Jan  8 23:57:00 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: To depart, is to die a little bit...  To die is to depart a whole bunch... <eichin>

that's what I meant by "not all that helpful", yes.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jan  9 00:51:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

mailutils depends on mysql-common???

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:10:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Huh, snes9x-x is non-free?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:10:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(noncommercial use only)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:12:06 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

unexpected!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:12:16 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

...why are you trying to play SNES games on linerva?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:13:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:15:06 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The All and Nothing <phurst>

"You can only use this program that's pretty much only written to do
illegal things if you don't sell it"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:16:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You can't use snes9x to set up a commercial arcade.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:16:14 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's Lucy Ricardo. "Aaaah, Ricky!", she says.
 <rnjacobs>

Is my guess.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:19:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Okay, why do we have GNU hello installed

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan  9 01:20:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Everyone should!

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Mon Jan  9 02:15:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

http://sosp2007.org/index_moon.html

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Mon Jan  9 02:15:52 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

someone learned photoshop.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 02:17:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

linerva / personal / geofft  02:16  (neither Santorum nor Tolkien)
    ... Er hm, I'm not on s:a, nor am I spang. That could be problematic.
spang / personal / austein  02:16  (Matthew Goldstein)
    That can be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jan  9 04:03:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Signs I might be totally wasting my time on the interwebs, partial
list: I appear to have ended up at christiananime.net

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Jan  9 04:15:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

When you're a LaserJet, you're a LaserJet all the way
From your first paper jam to your letter-sized tray
When you're a LaserJet, if the ink makes a mess
You've got brothers around, you're a family press

You're never alone, you're never disconnected
With JetDirect cards, when networking's expected
You're well protected

Then you are set with a capital J
Which you'll never forget till the cloud has its way
When you're a LaserJet you stay a LaserJet

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 04:52:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

What sort of dumb device requires two AA batteries and one AAA? In
the same case???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 05:02:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Aha! Found a working AAA battery in my Bag of What The Crap Kind Of
Electronics Are These Anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 05:27:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

DOUBLE BUFFER ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE GPU

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 05:48:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

http://mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2001/SIPB.pdf
http://web.mit.edu/6.933/www/final.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan  9 09:17:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

The baristas are discussing C. S. Lewis' space trilogy and his
orthodoxy. <3

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 09:32:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Amusing myself in dumb ways:
run Xephyr, run an xterm inside it, run ghci in the xterm, and type "import
XMonad" and "xmonad defaultConfig"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 09:51:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

For your next trick, run the xterm *outside* it, but set DISPLAY
before launching ghci!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 09:53:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Well the weird thing is that I mod-shift-c'd the xterm, and xmonad
correctly resized the other xterm before dying ungracefully

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:42:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

[starkish]
The baristas where?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:53:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Espresso Royale, across the street from ... BU school of theology. "Maybe
this isn't surprising"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:56:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I... mostly appear to understand Haskell now.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:57:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

This comes about 90 seconds after reconsidering whether I want to
use Haskell.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:57:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Does anyone *really* understand Haskell?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:58:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I can write programs that compile and do what I want them to.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:58:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

But do they consume bounded amounts of space?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:58:55 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

What is the connection between Santorum
and Tolkein?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 10:59:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm more worried about that monads are apparently so 1990s and the new
thing is arrows. The crap is an arrow

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:00:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

dvp / personal / ternus  2012-01-06 14:35  (ternus)
    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/99240/santorum-surge-2012-vetting-quotes

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:01:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

dvp / personal / geofft  2012-01-06 14:46  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    I'm not sure, but I think Al Qaeda is Mordor, Iraq is the Shire, bin
    Laden is Mount Doom, America is Lothlorien or Rivendell or something
    dumb like that, and the American military is the Fellowship?
dvp / personal / geofft  2012-01-06 14:47  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    And so we should fight a war in Iraq to distract Al Qaeda from both
    America and Afghanistan/Pakistan?
dvp / PERSONAL / jhawk  2012-01-06 14:47  (John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ)
    America's just a bit big to be Rivendell.
    ..
dvp / personal / geofft  2012-01-06 14:47  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    Gondor?
dvp / personal / ternus  2012-01-06 14:47  (ternus)
    America could be Numenor.
dvp / personal / geofft  2012-01-06 14:48  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    Look, I'm neither Santorum nor Tolkien, I don't know how this is
    supposed to work
dvp / personal / dvp  2012-01-06 14:49  (dvp on the command line)
    Heh.
dvp / personal / dvp  2012-01-06 14:49  (dvp on the command line)
    "geofft: Neither Santorum nor Tolkien"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:03:20 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

An arrow's another name for a functor, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:03:38 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

also, i,i "only the dead know Haskell"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:04:57 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

glasgall: Not really.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:05:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I think arrows generalize functors and monads?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:06:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Arrows are built around functions of type m a -> m b, as opposed to
the a -> m b of monads, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:06:14 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

"Well, functors generalize monads, so that's not saying very much"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:08 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

nelhage: You can sort of think of it that way

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:19 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

All I remember of category theory is the stuff we touched on near the
end of topology class (homotopy stuff), so you should probably ignore
me on the subject.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I thought Haskell Monads were not implicitly Functors (there is no
instance Monad m => Functor m), but yeah

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:37 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

but what they really do is generalize the "function arrow", e.g. instead of b
-> c you have a b c (a = (->) in the case of functions, and a b c = b -> m c
in the case of monads)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

geofft: "An unfortunate hysterical raisin"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:07:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Can I not get Parsec to be lazy?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:08:09 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

As in, you want stream parsing?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:08:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:08:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

does Parsec not support lazy bytestrings properly? Maybe try attoparsec?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:08:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I have network input (a stream of bytes), I want to get a stream of
Maybe somethings

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:09:05 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

i,i Iteratees

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:09:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I went and wrote instance Text.Parsec.Prim.Stream Handle IO Char, which
works... by waiting for eof

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:10:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Er hm, my top level parser is explicitly doing
do result <- many item
   eof
   return result
Maybe I can stop doing that somehow

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:10:53 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

"I bet #haskell knows"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:11:36 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

Do you actually want a [Result]? Because then you'll be doing lazy IO.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:11:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Is that wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:12:05 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

Not always.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:13:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I mean, main will have nothing else to do other than grab input and
keep parsing it. As long as its laziness doesn't approach honest
_sloth_, it's fine

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:15:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(Ultimately I'm carting input from one place to another and output back,
so I'm doing a read sock >> forkIO $ write sock, where read does parsing)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:15:22 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

geofft: OK, you don't want parsec, you want attoparsec.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:15:26 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

Parsec can't do incremental input.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:17:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Is this thing reliable/trustworthy? Parsec is attractive in part because
it's common

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:18:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Thanks for the pointer, looking. (Although I still bet adding lazy
repeated parsing to parsec isn't hard)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:18:55 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

Yeah, attoparsec is pretty reputable.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:20:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Cool!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:29:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Ah, aptitude search ~Dattoparsec is implying there are other things
that use it, I feel comfortable using it

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:34:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

aaaand this is exactly what I want, thank you

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:35:37 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

\o/

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:37:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

While I'm asking my class for Haskell help, is forkIO how I'm suppoed
to implement what I would do in C with select()?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:37:54 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

Erm, do you want to do this the Correct(TM) way or just an adequate way.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:38:16 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

The correct way is to get the file descriptor and register it with the IO
manager to get awesomeness.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:38:28 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

The adequate way is to use forkIO and a threaded runtime

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:38:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I care about soundness, and I somewhat care about performance. I
don't really care what category theorists think about select()

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:44:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yeah, forkIO is probably what you want.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway.d
Time: Mon Jan  9 11:45:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Wait, did I *really* write a spinloop for receiveNotice in hszephyr?
I *swear* I remember trying to figure out how to not do that.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:19:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

what's the difference between import and import qualified?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:20:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

import => from __ import *; import ___
import qualified => import ___ as X

IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:20:38 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

That's about right.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:20:49 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

You can also import qualified M (foo) but I don't think anyone does that.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:21:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... wait, what's the difference between import Foo as F and import
qualified Foo as F?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:22:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Or more to the point, "what is up with these imports"
https://github.com/bos/attoparsec/blob/master/examples/RFC2616.hs

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:22:03 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

un-qualified still dumps everything in your global ns

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:22:26 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

I think.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:22:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:22:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

So it lets me say F.thing if thing is ambiguous, but also lets me
just say thing if it's not.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:48:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Yesterday evening I was sitting quietly on my laptop in Qdoba reading
about Haskell and some guy walked up to me and was like "Do you know
Python?" and he proceeded to offer me work or something.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:49:01 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Hahaha. Do you look like a Python programmer?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:49:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

And asked me for my card (which does not exist) when I said that I
was busy and couldn't take on new projects.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:49:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I mean, I had my laptop out with something resembling code. I guess
that makes me look like a Python programmer?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:55:59 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

I think once I was walking around with a programming t-shirt in
harvard sq, and got sniped by a guy who wanted to ask if I'd work at
his startup.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 12:57:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Sadly, my Linux Plumbers Conference T-shirt seems to make people
think I went to a, uh, plumbers conference.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 13:27:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm not sure how I feel about this function being named hGetSome

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 13:27:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

As Dashboard Confessional would say, "Man, that is so dumb"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 13:27:37 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

in the military sense or the sexual sense

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan  9 13:27:40 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 13:37:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Er, this is almost exactly what I want and exactly what I don't want,
neh? It doesn't give me a partial output of a parse...?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 14:04:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I, uh, why does this work in ghci but not in my program. even when I
cut out everything from my program other than what I'm typing into
ghci.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 14:13:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Ah, forgot to flush.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 14:48:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

What?

Prelude> import Data.Binary

<no location info>:
    Could not find module `Data.Binary':
      It is a member of the hidden package `ghc-binary-0.5.0.2'.
      Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway
Time: Mon Jan  9 14:53:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I have no idea what this hidden package business is, but aptitude
fixed it

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.anyway.d
Time: Mon Jan  9 14:54:30 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> Wait, did I *really* write a spinloop for receiveNotice in hszephyr? 
> I *swear* I remember trying to figure out how to not do that.

Control.Concurrent.threadWait{Read,Write}?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 15:27:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... Huh, am I allergic to poppy seeds?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan  9 15:28:23 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"No, but you may be high"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan  9 16:06:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Okay, ran out of productivity, -> SIPB to maybe deal with Linerva?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants/eim.zephyr.juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 18:00:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

double double
double bubble

Class: geofft Instance: ttants/eim.zephyr.juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 18:02:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that there are no black or white stones, only gray.
 <rnjacobs>

bubble bobble

Class: geofft Instance: ttants/eim.zephyr.juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 18:03:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... toil and trouble?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants/eim.zephyr.juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 18:03:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_Bobble

Class: geofft Instance: ttants/eim.zephyr.juxta
Time: Mon Jan  9 18:04:19 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

I'd heard of Bubble Bobble, but didn't actually notice that that's
what was written until seeing the Wikipedia link, and was thinking
==geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:14:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... I appear to have lost my laptop battery somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:15:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Hopefully not on the T...

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:15:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(I have my spare, huge-capacity battery, but I'd been a fan of not
using it to keep its capacity up)

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:15:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You're keeping it at about half-charge, then, right?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:16:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

No, I'd always just charged it all the way, then used it entirely and
charged it back entirely

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 02:21:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 10:22:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

OK, to do today is probably at least 4 hours of SIPB work not
counting my git class, ideally like 6+ of thesis, a bit of prep for
my Thursday talk, and figuring out what's up with other plots like
ASA, moving, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 10:23:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Being only slightly generous with numbers, that's 16h of work. I want
to be getting ready for bed around midnight. Let's see how this works

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 10:28:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> find some breakfast -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: openssl
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:07:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I have a very simple demand. Can we get "openssl help foo" to work
the way that e.g. "git help foo" does?

Class: geofft Instance: openssl
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:07:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I am willing to forgive[*] all the other suckiness of the openssl
command line if they do that.

* For approximately three whole days.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:20:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

So, uh, if I click on "forgot your password", it brings up a screen
including "Questions? Comments? Complaints? Please contact the
Uptrack team. Thanks in advance!", where "contact the uptrack team"
is a link to a page that requires login

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:21:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I really want to put a 9" Pixel Qi screen in my netbook, but I don't
think they make any...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:21:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Or at least not any I can buy...

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:23:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Sigh, I can't tell if I'm supposed to go talk to SAO or IS&T or
someone before accepting this agreement.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:23:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Seriously, can't you just use MIT's site license?

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:23:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Jeff thinks I shouldn't.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

linerva / uptrack.agreement / jbarnold  2012-01-04 18:12  (Jeff Arnold)
    One possible reason to stay on the Linerva account: MIT might not
    renew the site license, and keeping the active, grandfathered
    completely free Linerva account is easier than requesting that it be
    reactivated in the future (the latter might be impossible).

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:24:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm not sure I believe that our site license with Ksplice will expire
before Linerva does.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:25:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It's true...

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:26:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(More to the point, presumably athena.dialup is a huge reason for
keeping the license, and it's hard to believe that athena.dialup will
stop having Ksplice in a way that won't also imply Linerva can stop
having Ksplice, either by going away, or by switching to a non-Linux
kernel without security holes, or something)

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:27:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==
athena.dialup and friends need the ability to take critical kernel
updates without reboots.  Something will continue to provide that.

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:32:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Ksplice supports lenny-backports and not squeeze-backports? Awww...
(not that I yet think we want a squeeze-backports kernel, but)

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:32:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

lenny-backports is the same source as squeeze, so it's easy

Class: geofft Instance: ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:33:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: !ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:41:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

What happened to Linux checkpoint-restart, anyway? There's been no
development since April...

Class: geofft Instance: !ksplice
Time: Tue Jan 10 12:41:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Oh, did the lead developer finally get his Ph.D.? That explains it.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jan 10 13:01:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>



Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jan 10 13:01:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

this is the second UA chair that's broken on me while I've been
sitting in it

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jan 10 13:01:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

ow

Class: geofft Instance: yaks
Time: Tue Jan 10 13:10:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

They see me shavin', they hatin'

Class: geofft Instance: rockstar-ninja-coders
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:01:48 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

http://www.quora.com/Edmond-Lau/Ridiculous-Recruiting-Emails

Class: geofft Instance: rockstar-ninja-coders
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:02:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Ugh, we are so behind on updating that.

Class: geofft Instance: rockstar-ninja-coders
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:03:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Rockstar Ninja Coders sounds like it should be an FPS

Class: geofft Instance: rockstar-ninja-coders
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:05:39 2012 Host: ET-FIFTY.MIT.EDU
From: 3 13 37 53 17341 <cesium>

"Are you a bad enough d^Hcoder to save the President?"

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:41:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Hey, Pooja got married or something.

Class: geofft Instance: piazzzzzzzza
Time: Tue Jan 10 14:41:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I just got spam from Pooja Sankar instead of Pooja Nath.

Class: geofft Instance: cnnq
Time: Tue Jan 10 15:18:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"OJ BEING TESTED FOR FUNGICIDE"

Class: geofft Instance: cnnq
Time: Tue Jan 10 15:18:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Everyone at Verde's thought they'd put him on trial again.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jan 10 16:16:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

`blanche treasurers`

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 10 18:48:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I want Debian to have ubuntu-archive-keyring

Class: geofft Instance: derp
Time: Tue Jan 10 19:03:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

/root is not inside /home

Class: geofft Instance: derp
Time: Tue Jan 10 19:04:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I was like "I'm bind-mounting home why can't I see my homedir?????"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 19:47:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> sipb-iap-git, 4-231

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 22:35:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

That went reasonably, although I feel like I get slower every time I
do this. I've totally gotten to rebase -i and add -p before, and had
time to spare to show remotes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 10 22:39:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Isaac N Evans <ine>

Hey, glad to hear it. wish I could have come!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Jan 11 09:45:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

How reasonable is dormspamming the hackathon?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:00:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

The crap is Ubuntu TV

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:00:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:00:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"TV for human beings"????

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:01:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Everything you want in a TV"

I do not, in fact, want Ubuntu in my TV

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:02:29 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

no http://www.ubuntu.tv/?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:03:00 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Looks like it's been squatted.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:03:14 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Unless Gooogle or someone is behind this, I don't see how this can
ever happen.  OTOH, based on the sample movies on the screenshots,
maybe they can afford to stream shitty movies.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:04:11 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I'd have an easier time believing Canonical's selling "media centers"
(cf. Apple TV, minus the iTunes Store).

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:04:47 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Oh, no, they say they're streaming.  Hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:04:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sure, I mean, I could see a MythTV box that also speaks YouTube, and
maybe even Pandora.  But streaming "real" content?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:08:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

itspouses&itpartners

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:08:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

CREATE IT

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Jan 11 10:50:16 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Go for it.

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Wed Jan 11 12:32:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I am so confused by why everyone is forking everything.
(mplayer/mplayer2, ffmpeg/libav)

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Wed Jan 11 12:33:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... okay, so, the libav developers are sending legal nastgrams to the
ffmpeg developers? and the ffmpeg developers are merging in all the
libav changes and doing releases codenamed "Peace", "Love", and
"Harmony"? what

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Wed Jan 11 12:33:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

and the Debian ffmpeg package is libav, not ffmpeg?

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Wed Jan 11 12:33:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

that last bit makes no sense

Class: geofft Instance: gutenbach
Time: Wed Jan 11 12:35:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Well, the source package got renamed to libav. But the binary package
for the command-line tools is still ffmpeg. Admittedly the libraries
are (still) libav* (hence the name of the new project)

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:33:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Multiarch /tmp!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:42:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

HOW DO YOU PEOPLE TALK SO MUCH

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:42:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I wonder if I could make money by summarizing debian-devel threads
and selling the summaries to other developers.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:42:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... oh wait, that's called LWN, isn't it

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:43:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Basically.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:44:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You should get LWN to pay you to do that more regularly than they do now

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Jan 11 14:45:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

If I magically end up with more free time, I'd like to

Class: geofft Instance: jwz
Time: Wed Jan 11 16:55:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Crap, I got rmsrolled

Class: geofft Instance: jwz
Time: Wed Jan 11 16:56:07 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 will make your life better.

Class: geofft Instance: jwz
Time: Wed Jan 11 16:56:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I don't know what that is, youtube-dl isn't working for me

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:57:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Hm, looks like "MIT affiliates" are being migrated to Exchange by
next week. That probably includes SIPB members?

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Trade <kchen>

I think that's still the Exchange 2007 to 2010 migration, not Cyrus to
Exchange.

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

==kchen

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:14 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, the email I got said 2007->2010.

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:28 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Split Recycle <kchen>

(Although I did have the same reaction you did when I saw Stuart's
e-mail this morning.)

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:33 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(my account was already exchange; it came that way)

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Jan 11 17:58:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Oh, right.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 12 12:54:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I cannot wake up if it is raining.

I should get a sun-spectrum-lamp alarm clock or something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 12 12:54:49 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: And yet the menace of the years finds, and shall find, me unafraid. <jhamrick>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:10:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm fairly certain Med Center will loan you a light box

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:23:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

x) polo shirt
y) black, striped dress shirt
also
x') jeans
y') khakis

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:24:13 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

what's the wash of the jeans?

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:24:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:24:33 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

hold on, I'll give you options

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:25:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

these are relatively light, if that's what you're asking?

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:25:14 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, that's what I meant

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:25:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I have other jeans that are darker

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:25:38 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I'd say y with darker jeans

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 13:26:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(Context is this talk I'm giving for this meetup thing. I expect it
to be informal but I still feel I should be dressed up a _little_
from what I usually wear)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 12 14:30:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

green line -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:51:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Aww, Alex won't let me rewrite the group startup forms in node.js

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:51:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

doooo it

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:54:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I mean, this file starts out
#!/usr/bin/python
# -*- coding: cp1252 -*-
import posix

What?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:55:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's POSIX used for?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:55:32 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:55:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

posix.environ.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 12 15:56:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Dodge This. <eichin>

someone didn't want to use "os" for some reason?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 12 17:04:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> Jobspring, or something?.

Class: geofft Instance: clothexory
Time: Thu Jan 12 18:13:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I am _almost_ underdressed. A T-shirt or polo would have been wrong.
There are people here with ties

Class: geofft Instance: metPerson
Time: Thu Jan 12 21:50:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

HD Moore

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:28:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm less than impressed by the quality of their falafel

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:29:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Why .. did you think that was a good idea?

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:30:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm tired of pizza?

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:30:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Sicilia's! I need to find time to get Sicilia's while I'm here..

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:30:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Honestly I don't actually like their stuffed pizza.

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:30:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

broder: organize a mob.

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:31:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What, to go to Sicilia's? That's just not done

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:31:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Now it is.

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:32:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Kid, back in my day, we ordered our Sicilia's and we liked it that way

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:32:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

mob to SIPB then.

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:32:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

==broder

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:32:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I'm only here because they're open and they have free wifi

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:32:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And they didn't take you out for overhearing discussion about their
latest mobbed up money laundering/hit job/etc. scheme?

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:33:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Thu Jan 12 22:44:08 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: While the submarine is vastly superior to the boat in every way, over 97% of people still use boats for aquatic transportation. <asedeno>

I tried to go to Sicilia's once. There was a Sox game and the T ride
was not worth it. We gave up.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jan 12 23:44:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I, uh... should read Narnia at some point

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:03:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Oooh! I can file a pedantic Debian policy bug against dkms and make
everyone's life worse!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:04:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I think.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:12:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:32:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Bah, I want a reasonable chat mechanism with all the properties of
zephyr that reaches people who aren't on zephyr.

"Maybe the fact that they're not on zephyr means they don't want a
chat system with all the propertis of zephyr"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:52:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Apparently courier comes with its own clone of pine, called "cone"? wat

Class: geofft Instance: smbc
Time: Fri Jan 13 01:54:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 13 09:24:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> campus

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 10:44:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Do tell

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 10:48:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

linux-headers-generic is a Recommends of an Ubuntu package, and
Debian packages aren't allowed to have Recommends that aren't
satisfiable in the Debian archive

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 10:49:31 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

That's an easily solved problem, make the depndency appear only when
built on not-debian. Yay substvars. 

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 11:02:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Recommends? Not just Depends?

(I'm willing to believe you, but not willing to look it up myself)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 11:04:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I saw something where someone had to pull the substvars trick for a
Recommends. (I don't _think_ this was one of Luke's packages)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Fri Jan 13 11:08:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

ATTENTION!!!!! A NEW BILL BEING PASSED BY CONGRESS THREATENS TO
REMOVE FACEBOOK!!! THIS DOESN'T MEAN NO MORE FACEBOOK, IT MEANS THE
END OF YOUTUBE, GOOGLE, YAHOO NEWS, AND MANY MANY MORE!!!! THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT BILL THAT CAN'T BE PASSED BY THE GOVERNMENT BY ANY MEANS
NECESSERY!!!!!

This scary new bill is called SOPA will censor the internet! This
will cause massive damage to what makes the internet so great for
everyone! Youtube, Facebook, Myspace, Yahoo, basically the whole
internet is upset that Congress would do something like this! This
threatens our first amendment rights and MUST BE STOPPED!!!

If you think this doesn't matter, than think about this. The internet
belongs to the people and is a great way to get across the message of
the almighty! As you and I both know, there are way too many athiests
in power right now and I'm sure they would love nothing more than to
stop people from spearding the message of GOD! If your a Christian,
please stand up for what is right and pray with your family and
inform everyone you know and pray with them to that this bill does
not make it past Congress! It would not only do great damage to help
the spreading of the message of GOD, Jesus and the holy spirit it
would hinder all kinds of free speech as well!!!

So as you can see SOPA will basically kill the internet!!! Please
stand up for your first amendment rights and inform everyone you
know!!!! Call your repersentatives and tell them to say NO!!! America
is the land of the free and that includes the internet!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Fri Jan 13 11:11:07 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"If your a Christian"

if my a what? ;)

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Fri Jan 13 11:14:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Clearly, Ksplice should have a bundling deal with these folks:
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/HotPlug.php

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Jan 13 12:11:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

i,i Pre-Build-Depends:

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jan 13 12:23:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

lvm
llvm

Class: geofft Instance: help.d
Time: Fri Jan 13 12:55:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 13 13:31:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

ew, jhawk spoor

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 13 13:32:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(at least that's what I assume this is)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Jan 13 14:12:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Orangereds!
From Karl!
Being pedantic about zephyr!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Jan 13 14:14:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm amused that I guessed your reddit username on the second try.

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Fri Jan 13 14:21:31 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

====nelhage regarding sicilia's falafel

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Fri Jan 13 14:21:45 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

also ==broder

Class: geofft Instance: sicilia's
Time: Fri Jan 13 14:22:00 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Frankly I find that borderline offensive! :P

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jan 13 16:23:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

From: Campusfood.com <newsletter@campusfood.com>
To: geofft@mit.edu
Subject: What Would Tebow Order?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jan 13 16:25:46 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"a t-bone, obviously"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jan 13 17:19:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the same terms as Perl itself. There is only one aditional
condition, you may NOT use this module for SPAMing! NEVER! (see
http://spam.abuse.net/ for definition)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jan 13 17:20:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Way to make your software not DFSG-free or FSF-free or really
anything-free, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jan 13 17:57:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

a superseded torrent (one replaced by another)
a superseeded torrent (one with a lot of seeds)

Class: geofft Instance: else.irc
Time: Sat Jan 14 00:31:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

... securus judicat orbis terrarum ...
If only that even worked today.

Class: geofft Instance: else.irc
Time: Sat Jan 14 00:34:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Anyway, I was dealing with Linerva or something, not being converted
to Eastern Orthodoxy, wasn't I

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 03:33:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

ugh, unix

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 03:33:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

why did anyone ever think it was a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 03:34:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, you should have stuck with multics.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 04:14:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

wtfyada

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 04:15:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

why did anyone think yada was a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:04:39 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Hello from linerva-dev! See zsig. (ttants: linerva-dev, linerva-test)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:06:41 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

... sigh, where can I get food?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:07:10 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Random, in an hour?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:07:16 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

or is it 2am?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:08:06 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I dunno, is this a hunt thing? I haven't been paying attention.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:09:56 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

next random hunt meal is at 6.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:16:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ET! Sages! Punctuation!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:16:31 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

punctuation is bourgeois plot to control language of working class

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:19:23 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Is there actually food at ET? (Also note that it's late enough that
by "food" I secretly mean "prepared food that I can eat while half
asleep")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:21:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think there's leftover Athenian chicken, that rice-like pasta, and
probably some other stuff. (If you want to walk back and do that
soon, let me know --- I'm probably walking back soon, and wouldn't
mind company...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:21:28 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"I was going to catch the T back soon"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:21:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You'll (presumably) have to microwave it, but I assume you're
competent to do that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:22:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Subway or bus? I think subway, at least, takes longer than walking
(though it is warmer...).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 14 05:22:31 2012 Host: XVM-5.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

subway, and yes, it takes longer

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jan 14 19:51:07 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ugh, can I not make debathena-msmtp write to a file?

Class: geofft Instance: truth-vigilantes
Time: Sat Jan 14 21:51:29 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/01/Should-emVanity-Fairem-Being-a-Spelling-Vigilante?currentPage=all

Class: geofft Instance: truth-vigilantes
Time: Sat Jan 14 21:54:29 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I like how URLs reveal typos in the original blog pots.

Class: geofft Instance: truth-vigilantes
Time: Sat Jan 14 21:54:34 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Umm. Posts.

Class: geofft Instance: truth-vigilantes
Time: Sat Jan 14 21:54:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I unnecessary-quotation-marks-vigilantes

Class: geofft Instance: truth-vigilantes
Time: Sat Jan 14 21:55:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well-played, sir.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:11:48 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

... Google is buying text ads on DuckDuckGo? waaat

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:12:55 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Are you sure DuckDuckGo doesn't use DoubleClick?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:13:46 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

...darn, I always just thought DoubleClick == Google.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:14:50 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I think they were bought by Google a while ago?

Class: geofft Instance: pg
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:48:18 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Hahaha, rtm was embarrassed about the worm and so listed himself as
"John McArtyem" on Viaweb's website?

Class: geofft Instance: pg
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:48:29 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

http://www.paulgraham.com/vw.html

Class: geofft Instance: pg
Time: Sat Jan 14 23:48:36 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Everyone needs to start calling him Prof. McArtyem.

Class: geofft Instance: colbert
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:10:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

awesome

Class: geofft Instance: colbert
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:10:40 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Subject: The Definitely Not Coordinated With Stephen Colbert Super PAC Releases First Ad, Begins To Regret Length Of Name

Class: geofft Instance: colbert
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:11:34 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

AMERICA – The Definitely Not Coordinated With Stephen Colbert Super
PAC released its first TV ad today, in advance of South Carolina's
upcoming unnamed GOP Primary. The ad, which takes an objective look
at Mitt Romney's private sector experience, is entitled "Attack In B
Minor For Strings."

"Mitt Romney claims to be pro-corporations," said Jon Stewart,
President of The Definitely Not Coordinated With Stephen Colbert
Super PAC. "But would you let him date your daughter's corporation?
Americans have been clamoring for a comprehensive study of this
crucial issue, so we splurged for the full sixty-second commercial.
We think South Carolinians will agree – they deserve a leader who
shares their state's values, and perhaps even their state's initials."

Class: geofft Instance: protocols
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:39:55 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

gah why can't anyone write a competent protocol spec

Class: geofft Instance: protocols
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:40:17 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

(Answer: because nobody actually implements these protocols more than
once)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:51:33 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

What do you call people who write webapps while listening to Insane
Clown Posse?

Djanggalos.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:52:00 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Ow.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:53:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

owww

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:53:18 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

*rams brisles down barrel*

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:53:38 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

*bites cartridge open, pours powder down barrell*

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:54:00 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

*drops ball down barrell*

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 15 01:54:31 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

wait fuck. oops

Class: geofft Instance: internet
Time: Sun Jan 15 03:06:54 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/e4z/

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.q
Time: Sun Jan 15 04:34:26 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"The type system is arguably too complicated for Joe Programmer to
understand, but that is true of many type systems, and perhaps it
does not matter too much: in practice, Joe Programmer usually works
by running the compiler repeatedly, treating the compiler as the
specification of the type system. Indeed, a good deal of the
complexity of the type system (especially Section 6) is there to
accommodate programs that 'ought' to work, according to our
understanding of Joe's intuitions."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 05:01:09 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

OK writing in awesomely-typed languages is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 05:01:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"If only Coq had a useful standard library."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 15 07:22:17 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

-> sleep a bit

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 18:46:00 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ugh, I think the right answer is the state transformer monad or
something

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:02:46 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Stripe moved into the city? Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:05:33 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I wonder what the expected security of writing your code in a
strongly-typed language you don't know vs. a poorly-typed language
you do know is.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:08:25 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

I know you're just prnf'ing, but how would you test that?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:07:36 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"Get 100 programmers who know C or Python well and Haskell poorly,
and another 100 who know both well, and have the first half write some
code and the second half attack the code"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:10:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

But wouldn't the second population definitionally be "better programs"?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:10:10 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

*programmers

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:08:45 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

You measure security against good programmers, not bad ones...?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:10:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

Oh, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:10:59 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

Sorry, I misunderstood the comparison

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:09:35 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I mean, sure, you could fuzz it or something, but the real test of
security once you have buffer overflows or something eliminated is
dumb security-sensitive mistakes.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:11:15 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

You're ostensibly measuring end-to-end security?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:09:38 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:10:34 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Like, "Here, have Django and Yesod. Implement Zoobar and set your
account to have 10 zoobars. We'll try to steal zoobars from you."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:11:00 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

(where zoobar is the 6.858 et al. archetypal banking application)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:16:33 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

I don't see where types help you here, if you're talking about subtle semantic
problems.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:17:18 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

I think it will help you in the sense that you may be able to write code that
is more obviously correct, because it's shorter.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:19:01 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Tea. Tobacco. Chocolate. Coffee. Cocaine.  Every land they conquer brings them a new stimulant. <eichin>

the top-10 list on http://www.yesodweb.com/page/about
is mostly unimpressive, in that it looks a lot like "use a decent
library" rather than "distinctive benefits of type-safety"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:18:08 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

The type-checker was gracious enough last night to find some instances
of me doing things like swapping two things that C would have called
(char *), hard-coding a specific function instead of using the
function parameter I meant to pass in (which affected the expected
types of the inputs), etc.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:20:00 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Doubles! <ezyang>

"I mean, there's a reason why Yesod is not a PhD project"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:18:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:18:59 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"Haskell: It isn't rocket science. Rocket science is easier."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:21:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Dude; rocket science is easy, there's like one equation.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:24:31 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

Here's a different test I propose: do a comparison test between people who
know how to program and make them code in some imperative, less typed language
X, and that same demographic but making them code in Haskell.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:24:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Our respect for the Legislature and its enactment of the UTSA cannot displace 
our duty to safeguard the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. <eichin>

(this suggests that the benefits over (competent)
use of a good library/framework/toolkit only acrue if you actually get
them in your application level code, and that's presumably less likely
if you're not familiar with the language.  Unless it's Ada-like, in
that if you're not really familiar with the language, you don't get
bad code, you get no code at all :-)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:26:37 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

==eichin. Either you get bad code, or you get no code.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:29:49 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

ezyang: That's what I proposed, right?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:30:15 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

You have 100 people competent in Python or C. They get to implement
an app in their favorite of the two, and also in Haskell. Then you
have 100 Haskell-competent verifiers.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:32:41 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

No, it's a different (and weaker) study.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:33:13 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

You're asking: Newbie Haskell > Veteran Python
I'm asking:    Newbie Haskell > Newbie Python

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:33:20 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Caters! <ezyang>

(assuming prior programming experience)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:32:55 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ahh. Intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 19:35:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

Because I think it's still an interesting result, and more likely to show up.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:07:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Based on other multi-implementation studies I've seen, you
will get very similar security bugs from implementation to
implementation, so your data will actually look like "30%
of implementations in haskell had input validation bugs."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:08:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Huh, I'm moderately interested in seeing these

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:12:55 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Haha, Sabily (new name of Ubuntu Muslim Edition) is awesome.

"We planned to release Sabily 11.10 on November 20th, InshaAllah. A
beta version will be available for testing on November 2nd,
InshaAllah."

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:13:03 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"Bismillah Arrahman Arrahim, Assalamo alaykom, 64 bits versions of
Sabily 11.10 are available! Happy downloading!"

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:13:30 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:23:56 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you didn't know this existed?

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:24:13 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

also, I have yet to hear about Jewbuntu.

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:24:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I knew it existed, I just hadn't looked at the home page in a while

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:28:36 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

oops. I was wrong
http://www.jewbuntu.org/

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:29:15 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

oops. I was still right.

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:30:24 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

haha: "Mixed-Marriage Edition - Combines the best of Ubuntu CE and
Jewbuntu. Also includes 'Jewish tips for Goyim' MOTD; The only caveat is
that you can't install the Orthodox Denomination"

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Sun Jan 15 21:34:32 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Huh, Romney's Super PAC is "Restore our Future", and Gingrich's is
"Winning our Future"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:09:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I hate software

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:09:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

srsly

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:09 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

If I report a security-sensitive bug, should I hope that the
developers know how to file CVEs, or should I do this?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:20 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

and should I copy the Debian packager or something?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:30 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

You should do it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:39 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

For the longest time I didn't understand how to file CVEs.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:40 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Okay. "How do I do this?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I believe, unless you have evidence that the developers are good at
dealing, you should probably contact cve@mitre.org and request the CVE

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"That depends; which piece of software is it?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:10:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Possibly even before contacting the developers.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:11:00 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:11:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(Possibly; It's probably fine to do it in parallel, but ideally you
want the CVE before upstream releases/announces it)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:12:05 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Why? Credit? Coordination?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:12:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Alternately, jus say fuck it and forward the report to oss-sec after
the fact.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:12:30 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

It's far from the most security-sensitive thing in the world, so I
kind of expect them to say "just go file it in Trac"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:12:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

So that the changelog/release announcement can name the CVE, so that
it is completely unambiguous that this issue is CVE-XXXX-YYYY.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:12:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

In that case, just report the bug and then contact oss-sec or cve@mitre

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:13:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Honestly, MITRE is not nearly as good as they should be at making
this process easy for randoms.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:14:20 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Okay, so e-mail [redacted] and say "Hi, there is this bug, I'm going
to file a CVE", forward to cve@mitre.org, and tomorrow when MITRE gets
back to me say "Hi again, here's the CVE"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:15:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

http://nelhage.com/files/can-request.txt

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:15:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

This is the file MITRE gave me the first time I contacted them to ask
for a CVE. FIIK why it doesn't seem to be easily available on the web.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:16:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

but yeah, that process seems sane.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:16:26 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ah, I see
http://cve.mitre.org/about/faqs.html#a13

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:16:34 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

You should link to that from
http://oss-security.openwall.org/wiki/disclosure/cve

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:17:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I'd really love it to be somewhere other than nelhage.com's tmpdir,
first :)

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:17:33 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Also, am I the only one who's uncomfortable that these are the same
people who grope me every few months?

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:18:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I guess A13 tells you to contact mitre@cve.org to request that
document, which is retarded.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:18:55 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Hah, milw0rm and Packet Storm are officially recommended by this
document? Awesome

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:20:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I also like how
> The information should be sent to: coley@mitre.org

They basically don't even try to pretend that CVE at MITRE is more
than one dude :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:20:32 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"I've worked with the Student Activities Office, that procedure
sounds totally normal"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Jan 15 22:34:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

haha what
unclear on the concept
but I'm not even sure what concept they are unclear on.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:40:40 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

The sanitizer is the awesomest machine

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:41:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

mumble mumble lesbian baby seagull goddess mumble

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:41:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:41:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Different kind of machine.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:42:27 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

It also totally feeds into my distrust of dishwashers, because the
cleanliness you need for one is just about as clean as I put things
in dishwashers _anyway_, but it takes like five minutes instead of
fifty.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:47:16 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru & Spread <kchen>

fwiw, I don't do any sort of rinsing of stuff I put into my
dishwasher, and it comes out clean.

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:54:00 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

I've met three kinds of people: (1) rinse it before it goes in or
it'll never get clean, (2) don't rinse it before it goes in, that
wastes water, (3) dishwasher? no, this is a drying rack where dishes
go after I wash them.

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 00:54:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Many new dishwashers have a compromise option for groups 1 and 2
called the "rinse cycle".

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 01:22:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

THey even have a choice for people in group 3.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Jan 16 01:50:44 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Ahahaha, there's this one Christian subreddit (/r/catacombs) that
requires membership to post, and that's intentionally
underadvertised, that started recently. Someone on /r/atheism
discovered it and linked to a thread about religiosity in Europe as
"Secret Christian Subreddit Trying To Convert European Atheists".
Comments from the /r/catacombs discussion about /r/atheism finding
them:

>>>> Phase one has been compromised. Initiation of Crusade Protocol has
>>>> begun.
>>> Full code 7 breach. Begin John 3:16 screen. Initiate omega
>>> protocol.
>> DEPLOY TEBOW! DEPLOY TEBOW!
> Now for operation hide behind the Jehovah's witnesses! They can't
> possibly withstand early Saturday evangelism.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:39:48 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

My CPU's L3 cache is 2 MB?

I could run a usable operating system entirely without RAM

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:40:20 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

really fast, too

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:40:18 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"I thought 640K was supposed to be enough for anyone"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:40:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

pshh, my CPU's L2 cache is 12MB.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:40:33 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, kid, but who's gonna fly it^W^W^W^Wwhat would you do with it?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 02:41:47 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

I've been asserting to people for a while that you
could do interesting things making the cache explicit memory with an
"initiate page copy" instruction.

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 05:51:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

stark: it is worth noting that ET's sanitizer will cause any food
particles to get totally baked on to dishes, rather than to be washed
off. It's not really a dishwasher.

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 14:43:27 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Yes, but I generally treat dishwashers as if they'll do that too

Class: geofft Instance: et.d
Time: Mon Jan 16 14:43:46 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Or maybe not bake on, but go "lol food I dunno how to clean this lol"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 16 14:48:53 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I am the oversleepiest.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:35:44 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

oh wheeeeeeeeeeeere is my razor

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:36:17 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oh where oh where oh where oh where?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:37:23 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:37:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

This is getting dull.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:38:44 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, you've whet our appetite for humor, but your carefully-honed
skill seems to have been worn away.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:39:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Thank you zephyr, I can always count on you to make my life more of a
musical comedy.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:39:26 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: We are the computer scientists who say VI!  - pbaranay <wings>

Huzzah!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 15:39:36 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

"I guess Hunt would have done that, too"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 16 16:00:32 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

-> other side of the river

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jan 16 21:02:36 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I hate gpg so much

Class: geofft Instance: /r/catholicism
Time: Mon Jan 16 21:09:45 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/TuPNG.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: /r/catholicism
Time: Mon Jan 16 21:13:47 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: /r/catholicism
Time: Mon Jan 16 21:16:43 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

"LET US OFFER EACH OTHER THE SIGN OF PEACE" / DOESN'T LIKE TO BE TOUCHED

Class: geofft Instance: /r/catholicism
Time: Mon Jan 16 21:16:52 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

HA

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:42:15 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

right, dinner

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:42:25 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

oh I bet I have half a sandwich in my coat pocket

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:42:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status.eip.q
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:43:27 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

INSERT burrito INTO geofft;

Class: geofft Instance: status.eip.q
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:44:21 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That certainly gives new meaning to SQL injection attack.

Class: geofft Instance: status.eip.q
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:54:40 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Really, does MySQL not have the concept of INSERT INTO table LIMIT?

Class: geofft Instance: status.eip.q
Time: Mon Jan 16 22:54:45 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

I guess I dunno what it would do.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jan 16 23:58:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

So glad we have a dev server

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 00:52:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

#freenode is the dumbest channel, why am I still there

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 00:52:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

some guy is asking where he can find cybersex

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 00:53:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"127.0.0.1"

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 00:53:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I kind of want to know what would happen if I e-mailed ops-help being
"hi, where can I find cybersex on zephyr".

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 00:53:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(... on second thought, I vaguely suspect I'd get a useful reply)

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 10:51:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

If you're having girl problems I feel bad for you son
We're apparently talking about ecumenism instead

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 10:52:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

(I'd make a "95 theses" joke but this is about catholics + orthodox)

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 10:52:53 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:20:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

freenode / #reddit-christianity / aletheia  2012-01-17 10:54 (aletheia!~alet
    She's vastly more ecumenical than me, insofar as she'll improperly take
    communion with other churches, but that's a relic of being in a
    persecuted country, I think. You take communion where you can.
    CAtholic/Prthodox difference look smaller there.
kdrinkwa / prnf / kdrinkwa  2012-01-17 10:54  (Alioth)
    Fuck American exceptionalism so hard.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:22:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Hey achernya, I heard the words "debian maintainer" and "byobu" on
#ubuntu-devel

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:22:57 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, I did a requestsync and kirkland is now merging my changes!

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:24:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

He wants you to do a bzr merge or something.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:25:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

He..what? how?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:25:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

*waves hands* go look at logs

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:25:56 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I am looking at the logs. They're not very informative.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta.d
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:37:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But how much ecumenical accument does she have?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 11:40:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I had a dream that I went to sleep. Waking up in the real world was
confusing briefly

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 17 12:10:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

-> campus 'cause I left my charger there

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 12:59:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Shut _up_ Oracle

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 12:59:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

I just wanted one Sun BIOS, I don't care about any of your products

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 12:59:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Certainly not "Datacenter Transformation" or whateverthecrap

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jan 17 12:59:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

nyancat5

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:00:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If you have Sun hardware, you probably need some
transformation.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:00:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Sun's x86 hardware was actually pretty nice

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:01:11 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Oh, right, bios not prom.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:01:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

"Linerva."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:05:00 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

What is linerva-dev running on?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:05:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

XVM

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:05:27 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh, so the linerva software update won't be a hardware update either

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:06:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

s/either/as well/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:06:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That doesn't necessarily follow (linerva-dev != linerva-test), but I
believe it to be the case.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:07:15 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

good point

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:08:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The Ubuntu IRC logs lag by at least an hour

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:10:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

Yeah, the plan at the moment is just downtime and a reinstall, since
dr-wily is as good hardware as we've got.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:11:49 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I imagine it would be hard to get a replacement that is at least as
powerful.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:12:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It's doable, it just involves actually spending money.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:13:05 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

For a $5-10k machine?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:13:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: neither Santorum nor Tolkien <geofft>

It probably wasn't quite that much, and anyway that's 2007 money.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:13:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

dr-wily is several years old, I am pretty sure you can get comparable
hardware today for ~$2k

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:13:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Probably not from SunOracle, but from NewEgg.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:14:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

("comparably powerful" if you want to bitch about the fact that
NewEgg's wouldn't come with an ILOM that no one knows how to use,
anyways)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:15:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm still basically planning on putting Linerva inside Xen or KVM
just to get remote management that doesn't suck.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:15:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Not insane

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:15:56 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Newegg totally sells servers with iLO of various sorts.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:16:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Although, hrm, do we care about the performance loss of
virtualization (minor as it is these days) on Linerva way more than
we care on scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:16:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"no"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:16:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Solve the load-balancing problem and definitely not

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:16:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... er?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:17:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

You want to load-balance between multiple linervæ on the same
physical hardware a la scripts, or?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:18:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Maybe, or maybe just VMs on distinct physical machines. Either way, it
solves linerva's scalability issue and likely would do wonders for
AFS's stability

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:18:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Oh right, AFS.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:18:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

You make a compelling point

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:19:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Do we have scalability issues other than AFS at the moment?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:22:02 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I,I Just put linerva on EC2 and be done with it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:22:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Your cloud ideas cloud intrigue me and I wish to cloud subscribe to
your cloud newsletter cloud.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:23:21 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Honestly, that's not the worst idea ever

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:27:28 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

The other extreme is sourcing an IBM mainframe and run Linux on it.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:38:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/src/thesis$ renew
Password for geofft@ATHENA.MIT.EDU: 
aklog: error while loading shared libraries: librokenafs.so.1: cannot
open shared object file: No such file or directory

Your AFS client does not seem to be working.  To troubleshoot this problem,
visit http://debathena.mit.edu/troubleshooting#openafs-modules

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:38:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"I don't think that will help"

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:38:45 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

probably not

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:39:09 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

my fault, or downstream?

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:39:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Debian's, for adding ~/bin to PATH but not ~/lib to LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:39:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(Unless you're supposed to configure rpaths or something?)

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:40:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

In any case, I'm not sure why I thought `make install` was a good idea

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:40:39 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

chrpath?

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:40:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Only works if there was already an rpath in the binary

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:41:23 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i am only aware of chrpath because of the wretched way gpsd is now
built, which is not my fault.

hm, yes, there may be no rpath. i dunno how russ builds (i assume you
derive from that)

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:41:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

No, this was me doing a clone of upstream and running ./configure
--prefix=$HOME; make; make install.

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:42:13 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

then i doubt we dtrt

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:44:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"LDFLAGS=-Wl,-R$HOME/lib"

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:46:41 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i doubt that will work right, but you can try. 

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 13:57:31 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"yay" it's blacklisted. I succeeded in getting kirkland's attention,
which is really all i wanted.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue Jan 17 14:17:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Holy crap it just got fixed and byobu_5.4-0ubuntu1 got released!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 15:06:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Clearly we should make quickstations go black after 10 minutes because SOPA

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 15:07:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-59.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Change the MIT background to MIT-at-night :P

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 16:28:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Huh, Conservapedia is also anti-SOPA/PIPA. Makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 16:28:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(It's also taking a cheap shot at Wikipedia in the process, but)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 17 16:28:24 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Don't call 'em frosh till you can see the whites of their eyes! - lexrj <wings>

"Whoa"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:14:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

the STM monad has explicit support for "make this function work
properly inside unsafePerformIO"? waaaat

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:16:50 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

just for allocating global transaction variables

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:20:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Huh, that's the third of four corner things to have fallen off.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:20:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I wonder if they make replacements.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:33:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

To: Geoffrey Thomas <sipb-iap-debathena@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:33:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:33:36 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ahahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:33:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:34:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, uh, our class is apparently tomorrow night? 

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:35:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are we actually holding it?  Otherwise we should consider punting

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:35:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Seeing as how we've done squat to prepare

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:36:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm pretty sure I can give debathena-trainees off the top of my head
at this point, just like sipb-iap-git

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:37:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

OK.  Do you need me there tomorrow?  I was not planning to be, but I
can be there on Friday

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:38:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:38:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'll _probably_ be fine?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:38:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... is that a  "yes, I would prefer if you were there"?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:39:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I mean, I dunno. I'm pretty sure I can do the whole thing, so if you
have a constraint I don't really care. It is kind of three hours of
talking. "Is Ben planning on being there?"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:39:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Also I guess we should send mail to sipb-office and debathena, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:39:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

5.5 hours, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:39:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

3 lecture + 2 lab + I guess half an hour to get dinner or something?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:40:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, no hard constraint, just was counting on some of the time.  "I
guess I can get work done there"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:41:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'll be there, though I reserve the right to be late (~5:30)

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:43:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Support-The-Daily-WTF-in-Supporting-the-Support-SOPA-Movement.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 17:58:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Actually, I'll be there from 5 until 9/9:15.  But we should be well
into "lab time" by then

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 17 18:21:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

hm, dinner

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 17 18:48:38 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I have something until six, but will probably show up after that.
Friday will be harder for me, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:03:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

dammit geofft

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:03:54 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Pyrophilia is not a good reason to become a fire fighter. - lexrj [to me] <wings>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:03:55 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

what did geofft do?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:04:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Why did you think "and do some other cleanup" was reasonable to put
in the same commit as a very nontrivial change

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:04:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I have no idea what was going on here. See also, COMMENT YOUR CODE

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:04:18 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

use \ldots{}!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:04:54 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The problem with comments is that they lie.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:05:01 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Distracts me? A beautiful woman lying naked in a bathtub?  Hah!  Where was I? - Autolycus, Xena <wings>

"But I'm not writing a 10-day" ;)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:44:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

DAMMIT GEOFFT.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:45:34 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is always right. <asedeno>

What did younger you do now? (then?)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:47:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

WHY DID YOU EVER THINK THIS WAS GOING TO WORK.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:48:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Apparently I decided to be overly clever with debian/control.in and
debian/control and CDBS

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:50:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which package?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:50:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

gdm-config, r25396

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:51:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Note the
+CDBS_BUILD_DEPENDS += $(gdm)
thing

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:52:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How does that break everything?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:52:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

So we only build debian/control once, on the build server not in a chroot

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:53:07 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:53:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

So my overly clever hack to generate the right build-deps via
debian/rules doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:53:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So Debathena ended up with a dependency on gdm3, which doesn't exist
in Ubuntu-land?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 17 20:53:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

No, squeeze doesn't have gdm3, it has gdm, so since the build server
is squeeze, the wheezy build doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 17 22:00:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

-> ET

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 17 22:03:04 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Are you living at ET until you move to CA?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 17 22:12:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert.overheard.ttants
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:14:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Jenga set
Django South

Class: geofft Instance: reading.prnf
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:40:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... I wonder if you can build an ELF binary whose interpreter is
/dev/fd/3

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:53:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"WARNING: THIS IS EXPERIMENTAL SECURITY SOFTWARE THAT MUST NOT BE RELIED ON IN
PRODUCTION SYSTEMS. IT WILL BREAK YOUR SOFTWARE IN NEW AND UNEXPECTED
WAYS."

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:54:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The FreeBSD kernel now supports Capsicum Capability Mode. Capsicum is
a set of features for sandboxing support, using a capability model in
which the capabilities are file descriptors. Two new kernel options
CAPABILITIES and CAPABILITY_MODE have been added to the GENERIC
kernel.

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:54:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Capsicum is actually pretty cool.

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:55:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

So where did you see your BIG SCARY WARNING?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:56:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... Wait, why do people think Midway requests are open?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:56:35 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin P Lehnert <blehnert>

CPW fesitval email

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:56:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

This is the second request we got today

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:56:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

oh, wait, wat

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:56:51 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin P Lehnert <blehnert>

I can forward you the relevant email

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:57:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*reads* wat

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:57:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

The admissions office confuses me so much

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:58:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin P Lehnert <blehnert>

Interdepartmental communication, what's that?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 17 23:58:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

At least they didn't reschedule the Midway on us, which I was a bit afraid of.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:02:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Who was this sent to anyway? Undergrads?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:02:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(Context: apparently the way to sign up for a Midway booth is to
email asa-midway. Now. News to me!)

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:02:59 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Benjamin P Lehnert <blehnert>

cpwfestival, which I do not have permission to see. My guess is
student groups

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:03:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"I thought I was in student groups"

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:03:28 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Pass In <kchen>

cpwfestival is just 3 people, not actually student groups.  Probably
just a placeholder To: line.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:06:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Google's home page is well done

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:06:25 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

++

Class: geofft Instance: reading.prnf
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:10:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

buh

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:20:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

You know what's awesome about Reddit? I see this post by someone to
/r/SFBayHousing, click on their profile, and notice that they're very
active in /r/seduction and go "NOPE".

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:20:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(That exists? ... Of course that exists)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:22:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

And in like multiple weight-loss subreddits? wat

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:22:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"My official position on everything tonight is 'wat'. Except
Capsicum, Capsicum is cool."

Class: geofft Instance: reading.prnf
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:30:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(The Capsicum paper points out that fexecve is still effectively a
file system access because the ELF interpreter is presumably a
filename, not a capability)

Class: geofft Instance: reading.prnf
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:30:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(So the obvious response is "why not")

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:30:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

kaduk: On the manpage

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:31:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Unrelatedly, FreeBSD is not Linux. Weird.

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:32:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Which manpage?"

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:32:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

;)

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:32:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/capsicum/man/pdfork.2.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:32:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Uh, um, er, SMBC++? Question mark?

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:33:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Oh hey, the error message changed. It was "DB error (hopefully being
fixed?)".

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:33:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pdfork&sektion=2&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+9.0-RELEASE

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:33:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

That sounds like looking at real systems instead of things linked on
a publications page.

Class: geofft Instance: capsicum
Time: Wed Jan 18 00:33:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

As an academic, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jan 18 01:23:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://twitter.com/herpderpedia

Class: geofft Instance: web.mit.edu
Time: Wed Jan 18 02:34:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

ecprice!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan 18 02:49:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 03:10:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

hm, linerva is a rote thing at this point, I think, not a creative
thing, so I think I'm not worried about being unable to do it if I
get up in the morning and am half-asleep, and I will screw myself
academically if I lose what remnants of dayshift I have. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:43:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

aaagh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:44:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Hi.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:44:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I think I have developed muscle memory to turn _off_ my alarm

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:44:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Should I be panicking about tonight yet?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:44:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: me <eichin>

I assume alarmdroid and the like have been suggested?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:44:56 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

move it across the room?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:45:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: And they all moved away from me on the bench... <eichin>

("need to do arithmetic to disable the alarm")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:46:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My alarm is across the room, and it helps a little bit.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:53:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

This is ET, which rules out that entire class of suggestions.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:53:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I generally use, like, two alarms, a phone, and a sleep 8h && mplayer
if I'm sleeping in my own room

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:55:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I could try something overly clever involving my phone on vibrate. (I've
also considered an alarm on my phone via headphones)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:55:01 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Does that work for you? I find that if I don't want to wake up [not
enough sleep cycles, no urgent business in the morning] I just don't
remember turning off any number of alarms.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:56:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Well, if my laptop has a screensaver, I have to swap in "how to type
my password" and "how to switch to the right window in xmonad", which
usually suffices at being hard enough

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 14:56:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(And my phone also has a cumbersome password)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 15:01:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Should I be panicking about tonight yet?

Probably.  I am.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 18 16:15:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

-> campus

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:49:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Okay, I have CVE-2012-0750, and I think this is public?
http://xpra.org/trac/changeset/451
I'm still a little confused what to do now

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:49:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://xpra.org/trac/changeset/446

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:50:41 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Congratulations, G. Thomas.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:51:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

yeah yeah

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:55:27 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Report bugs to your favorite distros?  Yell at oss-security?  I dunno.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:57:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I'd probably just email oss-sec and then forget about it.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:58:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

+ # these aren't used by xpra, and some should not be exposed
+ # as they are either irrelevant or simply do not match
+ # the new environment used by xpra
+ # TODO: use a whitelist
+ if var in ["XDG_SESSION_COOKIE", "LS_COLORS"]:
+     continue

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:58:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I don't even what is this also one of these things is not like the
other.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:58:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I don't think you will be surprised to hear that that's not the patch
I supplied

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:59:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Fortunately, this makes the "relying on this to be secure is a bad
idea, and it will probably introduce security holes" section of my
thesis easier.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:59:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Quick, report the race window between the open() and the fchmod()!

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 17:59:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Wait, are we not doing the chmod before writing any data to it?

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 18:00:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

So what?

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 18:00:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm pretty sure my patch explicitly avoided that race.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 18:00:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I can still get an fd before the fchmod, and then lseek()/read() at
leisure later.

Class: geofft Instance: cve.stark
Time: Wed Jan 18 18:01:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:43:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Why does Reddit not own imgur?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:47:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-59.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

I don't even get how imgur is profitable

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:58:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Hm, Ubuntu 11.10 supports both my wired and wireless cards out of the
box. And Unity appears to not totally suck

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:59:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I've been yelling about how much Unity doesn't suck anymore for
months now

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:59:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

The monospace font is so weird

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Wed Jan 18 20:59:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"but unity doesn't act like GNOME 3 wahhh quit changing things"

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:03:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

What was our proposed versioned replacement for nobuild?

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:03:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Something in debian/control, or?

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:03:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

We had one?

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:04:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I thought we'd at least talked about one

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:05:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm trying to make the linerva build scripts stop sucking

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:06:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

and this is involving shaving sbuildhack into sbuildpony, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: so-long-as-I-have-broder-summoned
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:06:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

although maybe not.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:17:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why would reddit but imgur? It's not reddit specific. and imgur is
sustained by ads. Barely.

Class: geofft Instance: sbuild
Time: Wed Jan 18 21:52:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Hah, tabbott got his name in the copyright notice? Never noticed that
before

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 23:00:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] I seem to have not gotten this email.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Wed Jan 18 23:17:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm confused...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jan 18 23:31:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... did I leave my charger in 4-237? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 00:59:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Intriguing. Unity appears to have gotten a subtle UI detail right
that gnome-shell didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:00:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What detail is that?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:02:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

If you are already connected to a wifi network and something is
sucking about it, in GNOME 2 you used to be able to click the wifi
menu and re-select the current network, forcing NM to disconnect and
reconnect. GNOME 3 breaks that, because it usually does not let you
click menu items that are already selected

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:03:16 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That. I hated that. I was very happy when I got xmonad and suddenly
the old network manager applet was back, working as it used to.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:08:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"Is that legal?"
"I don't know of any caselaw that says it isn't!"
"... Do you know very much caselaw?"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:12:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"We should just fix AFS."
"I have other things to fix, you go fix AFS."
"I have a mystery hunt to write! ... I like that excuse, I should use
 it more often."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jan 19 01:13:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Nice.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:03:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Ugh how did I end up with three linervas

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:03:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"it seemed like a good idea at the time"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:05:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

So you could put them on all on a tricycle and have a trinerva.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:05:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*groan*

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:05:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:05:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that carrots and carrot juice may improve your vision.
 <rnjacobs>

Or maybe a triumverva, or some other awful pun.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:06:23 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

GEOFF GEOFF YOUR ZSIG IS FUNNNY

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:06:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

OH MY GOD IT *IS* HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT :D :D :D

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:07:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

If it makes you feel better, it took me ~a week to notice the dubstep
christmas carol zsigs.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:08:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Hahahahaha, I love you guys.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:08:42 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Are there lots of Geoffspelled like that?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:09:29 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

For a while I kept calling you Gee-off in my head. 

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:10:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(This is the proposed tool to do a rebootless upgrade of linerva from
32 to 64 bit.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:10:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I mean, like, Chaucer? The giraffe?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:10:35 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:10:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

ge_off_t

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:12:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait what.  how the hell can you x86->x64 w/o a reboot?  I mean, I
guess you can kexec/pivot_root, but I assume you mean something
deeper?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:12:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Chaucer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toys_%22R%22_Us#Geoffrey_the_Giraffe

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:12:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Simple, you insert a trampoline at each call site from the 32-bit
version of the code to the 64-bit version of the code.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:12:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(Anders' objection was that it's not cleear whether the trampoline
should be 32- or 64-bit.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:13:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: mrflich -- a powerful necromancer who channels the power
  of indignant 'tech co-eds.
 <rnjacobs>

O_O

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:13:21 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

WIKI IS BACK YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:13:29 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(That … was my joke objection.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:13:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Okay, what was your real objection?)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:13:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(He can't talk about unreleased Oracle products.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

New plan: you freely release the 86->x64 component, with code that
cuts of one bit of usable address space every hour. You sell a
Ksplice module to excise that code and leave you with
fully-functional x64.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

The Association of Shareware Professionals endorses your plan.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(Their next game-killer will rebootlessly upgrade your database from
nosql to sql when you realize you've outgrown nosql.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahahahahahah

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Heeee

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That's pronounced Ge-off-rey the gee-raff, right?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:14:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

reboootlessly upgrade to a real database!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:15:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...I got through "Association of S", expected an ASA pun, and was very
confused when the last word was "Professionals".

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:15:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

No, these are real people.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:15:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i,i commander keen

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:16:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Man, shareware. Those were the days. (I don't really remember those
days. <_< >_>)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:16:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

back when radio shack sold shareware...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:17:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Back when radio shack sold actual components?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:17:00 2012 Host: BEAST-DIALUP.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Wait now I'll associate you with giraffes D:

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:17:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that you could fall head over heels for an energy vortex.
 <rnjacobs>

Back when grocery stores sold shareware...

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 02:41:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Okay, seriously, I'll switch to Ubuntu once they fix the letter m

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:41:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
Wait, do we have to stop hating Unity now?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:42:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That, or http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:42:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So if Geoff fails to graduate, we have 6 more weeks of Debathena?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:43:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, are you saying I should hate Cinnamon instead of Unity?  Or I
should hate Unity and use Cinnamon instead?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:43:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

use

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:43:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But... it's a spice, not an animal.  And it has no adjective!

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:44:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But its acronym is CDE. You get to hate that.

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:44:27 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh man, I so miss CDE

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:45:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Really?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:45:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, sort of.  For a Motif desktop, it was great.

Do we have a large enough hipster population that we could get people
to like CDE ironically?

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:46:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I hated CDE because I couldn't ever figure out how to use it. I also
hate Motif. So I'm not entirely sure if I hate CDE because it is Motif
or because it is CDE.

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 10:47:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You should hate it because it is Motif.  Motif was great for its time.
Transitioning to it was seamless from Windows 3.1 and, to a lesser
degree, System 5/6.

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 12:46:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Haha, I remember CDE

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 19 12:48:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

awake, barely

Class: geofft Instance: computers
Time: Thu Jan 19 12:51:21 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I wish I didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Thu Jan 19 13:12:06 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

test

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Thu Jan 19 13:42:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://maddox.xmission.com/

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 13:47:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Butterfree as in Butterbeer

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 19 13:49:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

++

Class: geofft Instance: version-numbers.wat
Time: Thu Jan 19 14:53:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ fs version
openafs 1.6.0-1+linerva1~debian5.0-debian

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 15:00:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

gruh, unix

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Jan 19 15:00:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

stop sucking

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Jan 19 15:21:00 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

"I appear to have lost my linerva-announce e-mail. Possibly because I
 rebooted linerva-test."
"Were you writing it on linerva-test?"
"It seemed like a good idea at the time!"
"There's dogfooding and then there's stupidity"

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:14:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"... which makes it possible to have a multi-arch rootfs with one
arch specific init binary for each of the (hard coded) probed
paths."

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:15:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

This ... sounds like exactly the kind of thing you would try.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:15:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:15:57 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Ooooh

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:16:57 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

i,i /sbin -> /arch/@sys/sbin

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:18:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You could totally chroot into AFS, right?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:18:48 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

We can boot with an NFS root; why not an AFS root?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:19:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ow, my brain

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:19:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:19:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, look, a jdreed.
Jon, you want to move proposed to production, right?  Right?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:19:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

ISTR that afsroot works (worked?) with the in-kernel AFS support, but
maybe I'm making that up.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:19:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... guess?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:20:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Let me look.  I have this feeling there's something in proposed that
ended up being broken

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:21:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is there anything in proposed?  Because package-list thinks there
isn't

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:21:50 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

> We can boot with an NFS root; why not an AFS root?

That's the entire point of kafs, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:21:58 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

(i.e., ==nelhage)

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:22:54 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is there a klog for kafs that speaks krb5 and doesn't have the
principal name hardcoded yet?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:23:39 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

> Is there a ... for kafs ... yet?

No.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:24:07 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That's what I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:24:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> package-list
Good question.  If so, "why is trac made of lies?"

Also, development could go to proposed...

Class: geofft Instance: linux-commit.q
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:25:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's possible that we moved stuff out of proposed and didn't close the
ticket sin Trac because Trac wasn't working

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:57:16 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

You know what would be awesome? Being a soprano

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 19 16:57:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 19 17:07:18 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

"I didn't know you liked to sing."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 19 18:46:14 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Reallocating W20-4 would be easier with a D&D-style map of the floor
and miniatures of all the groups

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 19 18:47:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Step one, move the SGS to W20.

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 19 23:51:11 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Rachel is scaring me O_o

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Thu Jan 19 23:53:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:34:49 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

"I would love to call up Leland Cheung and go 'Yo, I'm filing a FOIA
request, dawg.'"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:36:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*blink* Context?

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:39:54 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Intriguing. The commentors on Fox News articles seem to be mostly
blaming Obama for SOPA, and the WSJ is running an article "After
Outcry, SOPA Backers Are Mainly Democrats".

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:39:58 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I live in a bit of a bubble.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:40:34 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: All Diamond Circulate <kchen>

I noticed a lot of tweets on https://twitter.com/#!/herpderpedia
blaming Obama too.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:42:11 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Of course Obama is respondsible for SOPA. For the same reason why he's respondsible for the state of the economy
too: the president runs the country.

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Fri Jan 20 00:42:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

That means the Democrats and the WSJ editorial page are aligned.

Class: geofft Instance: "coalition"
Time: Fri Jan 20 03:03:35 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/world/asia/afghan-soldiers-step-up-killings-of-allied-forces.html

Class: geofft Instance: "coalition"
Time: Fri Jan 20 03:04:41 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

> “Lethal altercations [between NATO and Afghan soldiers] are clearly
> not rare or isolated; they reflect a rapidly growing systemic
> homicide threat (a magnitude of which may be unprecedented between
> ‘allies’ in modern military history),” it said. Official NATO
> pronouncements to the contrary “seem disingenuous, if not profoundly
> intellectually dishonest,” said the report, and it played down the
> role of Taliban infiltrators in the killings. 

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Jan 20 04:42:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Yessss we're going to have the Tall Activities Office, Grande
Activities Office, and Venti Activities Office

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Fri Jan 20 04:48:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 18:38:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

-> catching up with my own self

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jan 20 19:26:30 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

We could use a custom transform language.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jan 20 19:26:35 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Because perl sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Jan 20 19:31:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm pretty sure only about 30-40% of the transforms I wrote were perl

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:37:09 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:48:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

graaaaah

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:48:49 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Why are the freedesktop sysadmins incompetent

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:48:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

what now

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:49:22 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I'm pretty sure over the past three weeks, links to gitweb have
variously
- redirected to cgit correctly
- redirected to cgit incorrectly
- failed to redirect

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:49:47 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Today's frustration: look at http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/ (or
anything that starts with that domain name)

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:50:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Clearly they should migrate to scripts.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:50:15 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oh, and I'm still dumbfounded at their loss of people.freedesktop.org
a few years back.

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:50:24 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

They had a hard drive crash, and didn't have backups.

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:51:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ugh, I got hit with that, like, a week ago. Somebody had example code
to draw a reflection using Clutter in Vala that was on people.fd.o

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:53:18 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

The original "here's this new thing called ConsoleKit and why it's
awesome" presentation was on people.fd.o, as was everything related

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:54:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ha. You know, I think the conspiracy jokes pretty much write themselves

Class: geofft Instance: fd.o
Time: Fri Jan 20 20:55:42 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

On Mon, 2009-10-26 at 04:53 -0400, Geoffrey Thomas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Do you happen to have a copy of
> system-integration-and-gnome-guadec2007-davidz.pdf, linked from the HAL
> home page? It used to be on your site at freedesktop.org, but the home
> page tells me that these files were lost in a hard disk crash.
>
> I think I'm also interested in devkit-presentation-davidz-aug2008.pdf if
> you have that one too.

I've updated

http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/talks/

with the local copies I could find on my laptop and whatever the Wayback
machine could bring back (two of the presentations). Note that most of
this has changed - this presentation is the one most up-to-date

http://people.freedesktop.org/~david/talks/Plumbers-2009-Sievers-Zeuthen-Replugging-The-Modern-Desktop.pdf

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
David

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:52:10 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I made myself a bugtracker for things I want to read and cite. This
is proving surprisingly convenient; I should do this in general

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:52:27 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

(Or find one of these things like Instapaper or whatever?)

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:52:57 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

Instapaper doesn't work on PDFs, greatly diminishing its academic usefulness.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:54:18 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

instance Monad Mountpoint where
  fs >>= path = mount(fs.device, path, "", MS_BIND, "");

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:55:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oh man, a new systemd for administrators!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:55:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

link?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:56:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/security.html

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:56:13 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oh man, it's on containers/sandboxing! :-D :-D :-D

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jan 20 21:57:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's kind of awesome. I wonder if Fedora will stop running named in
a chroot.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 20 22:36:30 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oops why did I remind myself that xprint existed. aaaagh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:36:22 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oh right, lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:37:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o, lunch?!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:37:50 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

you see, geofft is in China.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:38:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

mentally or physically?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:38:21 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

He could have gone all the way to the Great Wall of China!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:38:49 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

But now he has a New York state of mind.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:44:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

you are mixing too many songs/references

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:44:35 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

They're all the same artist though

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:45:16 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It..is? Googling it seems to bring up...oh, darn pop culture.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:47:51 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

Billy Joel

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 20 23:48:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, I kept looking.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:12:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

-> ET

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:17:11 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

At ghci, how do I assign an IO foo to a variable of type foo?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:17:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

This seems like somethingI'd want the interactive prompt to do...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:19:29 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

x <- m

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:19:33 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

"the obvious way"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:43:06 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

WHOA

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:43:17 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

THE INTERACTIVE PROMPT SECRETLY STARTS WITH DO

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:43:21 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

THAT'S AWESOME.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:43:54 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

And also explains why you have to use "let"!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Jan 21 00:45:33 2012 Host: LINERVA.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, I just found that part of the manual. Pretty neat.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 21 01:07:56 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I hate that within 10 minutes of feeling actually productive and
concentrating for the first time in a day, I start feeling really
sleepy

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Jan 21 01:08:33 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

duck sauce
dork sauce

Class: geofft Instance: codeq
Time: Sat Jan 21 01:35:09 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

BEWARE: the docs lie!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Jan 21 01:52:03 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

"When you're a Haskell programmer, everything looks like an IO Nail"

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:17:41 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Things I want to learn more about, partial list: GObject introspection

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:17:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What about it?

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:18:16 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I don't know anything about it, but it sounds cool.

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:18:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It is cool!

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:19:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though it's more cool for libraries that go out of their way to have
good introspection support, which not all of them do

Class: geofft Instance: sopa
Time: Sat Jan 21 02:26:25 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/008/401/30173528.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jan 21 03:30:05 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I wonder if it'd be worth printing out panics as QR-encoded strings
instead of as plain text

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jan 21 03:30:23 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

You can almost certainly get the resolution you want given KMS

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jan 21 03:37:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Version 40 QR codes only contain enough bytes for ~80x50 text.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jan 21 03:40:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I suppose you could put an array of v40 QR code blocks on screen, but that
feels awfully hacky, and doesn't help in the situations where e.g. the morse
code or CMOS storage panic handlers are necessary.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 21 06:57:35 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6 Opcode: else
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:35:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I just still think IPv6 is a bad idea.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:36:19 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

why?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:37:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

It should be an extension of the IPv4 namespace and routing, so that any
two IPv6 computers can talk over IPv4 routers provided that they're using
subdivisions of an IPv4 IP

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:38:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

That's... the most reasonable anti-ipv6 thing I've ever
heard anyone say.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

geofft geofft you should design IPv8

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:39:04 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

Is there already a 7?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:39:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Also, it turns out that people don't *want* their invidual devices to
be addressable from the wider Internet.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:39:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is it even possible to design an IP that way? Wouldn't it be easier to
make IPv4 embedded in IPv6 so IPv4 machines could continue to work
seamlessly?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:40:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I'm not actually sure what that observations says about what IPvN
should or shouldn't look like, but all the effort and assumptions in
ipv6 that that is a goal are basically all wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:41:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

nelhage: Yes, of course. You keep NAT and everything else you know and
love from IPv4. It should simply extend the namespace.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:41:38 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

I... no, they don't want their device to be accessable.
They probably do want* it to be addressable.

* inasmuch as the consumer wants anything other than porn

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:42:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It is *possible* that "addressable but not routable" is an acceptable
solution.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:42:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

You can choose to make a device addressable; that doesn't prevent the
default from being 192.168.0.1.0.0.0.x

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:42:26 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> I just still think IPv6 is a bad idea.

When you say this, you should keep in mind that the only interesting
question now (and the one that people think you’re answering when you
say that) is whether IPv6 is _so_ bad that we should just stick with
IPv4 for the next ten or twenty years that it will take to design,
implement, test, and proliferate a better replacement.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:42:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:42:40 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

"IPv6 should be an extension of IPv4" is a djb idea, and I think most
people would agree with him in hindsight.  Being able to communicate
over IPv4 routers is... I'm not sure if that would work or not.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:43:00 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Anyway, too much water under the bridge to really pursue either of
those ideas.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:43:26 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Do you seriously believe that stickng with IPv4 for another ten or
twenty years is a reasonable option?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:43:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

I mean, I think geofft is to make a bazillion IPv4 networks, with one IP
to bind them all.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:43:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

so any given router will be routing packets for only one such network.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:43:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

achernya: You want, as far as possible, IPvX and IPv4 machines to
talk to each other without needing to reconfigure the IPv4 machines.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:44:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

But, while there is a benefit for being able to talk to the old IPv4, i
don't see why you would want to balkanize the rest of the address space.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:44:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

andersk: Yes. NAT harder, and threaten to disconnect the /8s if they
don't give their IPs back.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:44:51 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Sure, but I don't see how IPv6-extends-IPv4 is superior ot
IPv4-is-seamsless-routed-on-IPv6

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:45:03 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

How much does it actually help to reclaim /8s?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:45:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

“NAT harder” only gets you so far.  Remember, we only have 2^16 ports.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:45:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is the US Government gave up some of their /8s we'd probably be good
for a nother few years.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:45:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

ghudson: Yeah, this is partly inspired by the djb rant.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:46:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Anyway, I hear it didn't take 10-20 years to design IPv4 and turn it on
and say "OK guys new protocol at midnight, if you haven't upgraded sucks
to be you".

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:46:36 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

IPv6-extends-IPv4 allows machines to serve IPv6 clients with a
software upgrade but no DNS configuration changes.  I'm not sure
quite what IPv4-routed-on-IPv6 means, so I can't say whether it has
that property.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:47:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

And in any case, making your protocol resemble IPv4 as much as possible
cuts down on design/testing time.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:47:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> cuts down on design/testing time

That’s not an interesting point now that we’re very close to the end
of that time for IPv6.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:47:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What I was suggestin for IPv4-routed-on-IPv6 was basically All of IPv4
exists in IPv6 with some prefix. Like all 000000:ipv4address and just
worked everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:48:32 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Almost all of the complexity of IPv6 comes from migration concerns
(supporting multiple address types), not from differences between
IPv6 and IPv4.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:48:54 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

achernya: I think you're arguing for the same thing as djb was, just
with a different name.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:49:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, ok.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:49:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

Guys guys I have a great idea

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:49:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

IPvNAT

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:50:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

That's basically right.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

So, design an address protocol that doesn't use port numbers, teach
sufficiently large number of NATs to support it, and *bam*

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:51:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You guys are forgetting that NAT _requires_ the concept of port
numbers.  In some sense, it basically uses the port number space to
dynamically extend the address space.  Like I said, this only gets
you so far.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:53:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

So, we want TCPv6?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:53:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

How does that solve any problems better than IPv6 does?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:54:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I think TCPvX + IPv4 is an interesting thought experiment. (Plus UDP
etc., and extending ICMP etc. to support port numbers.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:54:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Routers route IP, not TCP.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:54:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

So every router automatically supports TCPvanything.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:54:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

When your plan is to throw up a bunch of NATs, no, that isn’t true
anymore.  NATs route TCP (and UDP).

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:54:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

Yo dawgs, I heard you like IP, so I put an IP in your IP

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

Well, they wouldn't be /real/ NATs.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

But really, does a 48-bit space not suffice?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

Except when they needed to be for compatibility.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So you're saying that the real answer is to...VPN everything?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: If I speak, I am condemned ... if I stay silent, I am damned. - les mis
 <rnjacobs>

I will note that the total number of ethermacs in the world is a 46-bit space.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Maybe 44-bit address, 4-bit port, copious use of SRV records.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

geofft: It needs to suffice for both addresses and ports.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:56:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> 4-bit port
Would you like to be limited to 16 connections at once for the rest
of time?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:56:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(That includes incoming connections for servers!)

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:56:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Maybe.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:57:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch hold! <ezyang>

I think we would need a new TCPv6

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:57:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is the current one even called TCPv4?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:57:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

"No, I'm just being cheeky"

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:58:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

TCPv6 means TCP over IPv6.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:58:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

"ok fine"

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:58:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

From hereon, our mutant baby scheme shall be called TCPvNAT

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 17:59:30 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Is there a question about whether we should stick with ipv4
for the next 10 years? I'm pretty sure the answer is
universally yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:03:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I count 11 US Government owned /8s...

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:03:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Sure, 10 years is optimistic.  I don’t think we could possibly throw
away all the investment we’ve poured into IPv6 and deploy a geofft
scheme from scratch in 10 years.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:08:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

If we had been having this conversation 20 years ago when IPv6 was in
the beginning of its development, we could talk about other plans. 
(We did talk about other plans.)  But that’s not an option anymore in
anything other than an academic sense.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:12:38 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I don't know about a geofft scheme, but I think a more
emergent scheme is more realistic than a ipv6-like-scheme.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:13:11 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Even most giant nerds with graduate work in networking I
know are like "ipv6 is not worth my time to figure out,
fuck this."

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:14:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Emergent?  What do you think is going to emerge?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:14:49 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

NAT tunneling protocols, HTTP accelerating protocols, TCP
alternatives optimized for video that people actually use.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:15:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The people building those consumer devices which might want
to be addressable, e.g. video baby monitors, have zero
interest in ipv6 and a lot of interest in things which will
actually work in most households.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:16:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How are any of those things going to actually function without an
address? That seems to be solving a different problem.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:18:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

NAT-busting, talking to a pool of centralized redirectors, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:18:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Sharing ports on your consumer NAT.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:19:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

It remains the case that NAT only gets you so far, and once your ISP
is running a NAT instead of just you, you aren’t going to be able to
do those things anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:20:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Why not? Imagine an interface whereby you can request ports from your
ISP.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:21:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

There are already ISPs running NAT, and they are already commercially
unpopular.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:22:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

And given that NAT will continue to exist in IPv6 and is really good at
solving a class of security sadnesses, I don't see a good argument for
"IPv6 means ISPs won't NAT".

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:24:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Blocking all incoming connections has all the same security
properties that NAT does.  (If you want, you could think of that as
1-1 NAT where the internal and external addresses are the same.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:26:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The argument is the one you already made.  ISPs running NAT are
commercially unpopular, so they’ll prefer not to NAT unless forced to
do so by address space exhaustion.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:27:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

Wait, isn't the argument here, "if they're forced to use NAT, they'll opt
for the version of NAT which mitigates the unpopularity?"

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:28:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

OK, so we give them a NAT that sucks less than IPv6.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:29:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

ISPs that give their customers only IPv6 addresses will also be
commercially unpopular, _and_ that will be a world that sucks that I'm
hoping to avoid.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:32:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The next step is dual-stack ISPs, not IPv6-only ISPs.  A transition
path to IPv6 does exist.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:36:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

But at some point we intend to have people on the Internet with only IPv6
addresses?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:36:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

And without the benefit of NAT to ensure interoperability with
v4-only nodes?

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:36:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

In most scenarios, that would be a really long way away

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:37:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

We can debug and deploy IPvgeofft before then.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:38:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

"IPvG, please"

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:40:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

As the number of v4-only nodes decreases, the usefulness of v6-only
nodes increases.  This happens continually and gradually, since the
required amount of v4 compatibility is different for different
applications.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:42:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Nothing stops you from running an IPv6-to-IPv4 compatibility NAT
thing, if that’s what you want.  But it probably won’t be required.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 18:42:50 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Presumably there's also "you get an IPv6 address and some awful
NAT-routd private IPv4 address which mostly works with the web" as a
transition step.

Class: geofft Instance: ipv6
Time: Sat Jan 21 19:31:03 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

For reference, here's the djb argument:
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html

I think it's telling that this article was written ten years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: /r/christianity
Time: Sat Jan 21 20:13:34 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

http://silouanthompson.net/2012/01/not-a-wizards-duel/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 20:23:16 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I just had the thought "Man, I wish I had Unity on my Debian box".
WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 20:23:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 20:25:47 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Unity genuinely seems to actually not suck that much anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 20:26:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Broder keeps talking it up.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts.trac.gutenbach
Time: Sat Jan 21 21:07:15 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

... huh. weird. it's calling lots of git commands in the steady state.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts.trac.gutenbach
Time: Sat Jan 21 21:09:21 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Oh look, a pull request from Anders

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 22:38:47 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

... how does SSL work again?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jan 21 22:40:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> Oh right, it doesn't

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 22 01:53:03 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

You can't spell "OpenSSL" without "NSS"!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 22 01:59:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> Broder keeps talking it up.
And yet everybody laughs me off until they come around 6 months later!

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sun Jan 22 04:22:01 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

multipart/hobsonschoice

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Jan 22 04:39:48 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/19/ignorant-people-please-stay-home-on-election-day/

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sun Jan 22 06:21:34 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The All and Nothing <phurst>

I wonder if this person who thinks that the average American isn't
terribly well-informed thinks that the average american will also act in
their rational self-interest when it comes to capitalism.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 22 16:11:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

why is -c sipb in _the most minimal_ of all my filters???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 22 16:11:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It isn't that high traffic, except when there's wanking.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 22 16:11:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

oh, no, this conversatioon just involved a lot of use of the word
"geofft", nvm.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 22 16:12:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Right, it's in filter medium but not filter work (which is personals
+ -c geofft + summons + nagios, or so)

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:34:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ gpg --search-keys geofft
gpg: searching for "geofft" from hkp server pgp.mit.edu
(1)     Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
        Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@ldpreload.com>
          4096 bit RSA key 5C413520, created: 2011-09-06
(2)     Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
          4096 bit RSA key B8EC3AC9, created: 2009-05-18
(3)     Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
          1024 bit DSA key F9B32023, created: 2009-05-08
(4)     Geoffrey Thomas (Athena -- insecure) <geofft@mit.edu>
          1024 bit DSA key 6BD357CA, created: 2008-07-21
(5)     Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
          1024 bit DSA key FEB95CFF, created: 2008-07-14

"I wonder how many of these I remember the passphrase to. Or where
they are."

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:46:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... freshmen geofft, why the heck were you looking at AFS source code

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:46:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Didn't you have things to do? Like your classes?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:46:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*freshman

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c.d
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:47:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Oh dear, multiple freshmen geoffts sound... something.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c.d
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:47:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

"And I've only heard stories about frosh geofft"

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c.d
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:47:54 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Share the stories!

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c.d
Time: Sun Jan 22 19:48:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8P3NGNcg98

Actually, that seems to be sophomore geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.n-c.d
Time: Sun Jan 22 20:25:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

[stark] geofft looks and sounds the same.

Class: geofft Instance: starking.on.life
Time: Sun Jan 22 22:11:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Realizations over the last two days that blew my mind:
1) Huh, Chrome's setuid sandbox was written by Julien Tinnes?
2) Huh, Kanye West covered Harder Better Faster Stronger?

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Sun Jan 22 22:19:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Okay, how is PR_SET_CHILD_SUBREAPER not full of vulnerabilities we
haven't noticed yet?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 22 23:17:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

-> Verde's

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 22 23:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Whoa, it's still open?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 22 23:59:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 22 23:59:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I mean Star.

Class: geofft Instance: eim
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:09:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Okay I want an aeropress now

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:21:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Possible linerva names, partial list: name the guest vinegar-pot and
the host vinegar-pot-pot.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:22:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Hey! Why not the names I suggested :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:22:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I suggested dr-robotnik, Bethany has suggested giygas and gary-oak

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:23:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Continuing the video game villans: psycho-mantis.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:23:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

gary-oak is a reasonable possibility.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:23:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

psycho-mantis would totally make people feel like they got what they
signed up for when it crashes.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:24:07 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think it's an awesome name.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:24:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Other things from metal gear: revolver-ocelot

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:25:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

actually, metal-gear itself is available.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:26:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Name the host metal-gear and the guests {solid,liquid,solidus}-snake

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:27:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... metal-gear rather describes the X4200

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:27:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

See? It's appropraite!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:27:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

s-s is taken (and we can't use it twice...).

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:27:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Name it after the people that actually rode the metal gears, uh...
hmm.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:28:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"Linerva usually has a two-part name..."
"What's its name now?"
"Oh, the hardware is named after Dr. Wily."
"So it's Linerva Wily?"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:28:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

liquid-snake used a metal gear. As did... revolver-ocelot?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:29:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But l-s is taken.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:31:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Things from MGS that have shorthands available: revolver-ocelot,
sniper-wolf, vulcan-raven.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:34:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...other video game villans: team-rocket

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:34:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

gary-oak, gary-oak!!!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:35:31 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

apparently there's a dr-nefarious in some game?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:36:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

shadow-link?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:36:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

...gary-oak!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:36:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Whoa, that got Bethany onto zephyr? Impressive

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:36:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

++ >.>

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:37:07 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, another metal-gear related thing: sniper-wolf

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:37:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, I'm out of video game nemesis for now.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

because 
1) gary oak is a boss
2) gary oak has the companion cube badge
That is all

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:38:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

http://tinyurl.com/6unxwubr

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:39:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That url totally did not work

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:39:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

http://tinyurl.com/6unxwub
weird, random r, my bad

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:39:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I see.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:42:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm fine with gary-oak...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:42:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Bethany is proposing call the host gary-oak and the guest
team-{galactic,magma,plasma,rocket}

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:42:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I thought she was semi-routinely on zephyr?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:43:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Modulo commit messages, she wasn't for the last week or two at least.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:43:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

I hiatus'd zephyr since the end of last term. But this was important.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:44:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You know, we never had d-w for dr-wily...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:44:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... oh right, there's a multiple-guests plot, isn't there.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I still think the metal-gear theme is AWESOME. 

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Sigh. (We should also figure out what to do with the dr-wily name,
since I'd feel bad not using it)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

Pokemon is AWESOME-er.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

imho

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

dr-wily can become an office head?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:44 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It totally makes sense with the other dr-foo I suggested.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

It's on the SMR network at the moment...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:45:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

And currently there's nothing pokemon-related that I know if

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:21 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We could make the theme "fictional video game doctors"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

*pops in* I heard Pokemon?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Is someone talking about Professor Oak?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Okay you kids pokemon-battle out what Linerva gets named or
something, I'm getting back to work

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:46:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

Vote gary-oak! 
It's.. um... worth your vote?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:48:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

dr-{andonuts,baldhead,freeman,kleiner,breen,wily,peace,sage} all are
available...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:48:51 2012 Host: ABRA.MIT.EDU
From: Kevin Chen <kchen>

I feel like with Geoff's comment, I'm compelled to chime in.  I'm not sure
why, but team-rocket sounds better to me than gary-oak for some reason.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:49:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

... I actually really like that suggestion. "but I'm not a sipb
member" >.>

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:49:47 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

bethany just squeeee'd at dr-andonuts..

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:49:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

What is an andonut

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:50:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://earthbound.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Andonuts

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:53:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

i,i "princess-celestia, rainbow-dash, twilight-sparkle, apple-jack,
princess-luna, pinkie-pie"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:54:08 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Piper Hunt: full-time MIT student, part-time Antichrist. - pbaranay <wings>

+++++++++

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:56:56 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[stark]
> metal-gear theme
Like titanium-planetary?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:58:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I can't google that...and I don't remember. What is it?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:58:16 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Or yttrium-reduction.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:58:32 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

iron-spur

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:58:51 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

aluminum-worm

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:11 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(get it yet?)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, [metal]-[object]. I see.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:23 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[metal]-[gear], specifically. :P

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't see how a spur or a reduction is a gear?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

randomize!
mercury-livers

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 00:59:57 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

reduction gear, spur gear

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:00:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Sorry, narrowed-away for a second. MLP names sound awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:00:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh cool. I like that. metal-gear for the host, and then oremanj's
names for guests!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:00:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

<3 <3 <3

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:00:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

@ ponies

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:06:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So do we have a name yet?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:37:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Why are type constructors capitalized? Aren't they more like
functions than types?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.high-expectations-asian-father.prnf
Time: Mon Jan 23 01:41:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

WHY U PLAY ROCK PAPER SCISSORS?
WHY U NO PLAY CONFERENCE PAPER TENURE?

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:16:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"Geoff thinks we shouldn't use Windows 3.1."
"Geoff thinks we should use HTTP instead of Gopher."
"Geoff thinks the ASA should rent a van instead of horses."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:18:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... reader and writer monads are just, like, things that do a subset
of the IO monad. Right? Why doesn't anyone say that?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:20:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

No, the reader and writer monads don’t do IO.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:22:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... I don't _think_ that contradicts what I said?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:22:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I guess reader doesn't do input. Writer... kind of does output maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:25:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The point of the reader and writer monads is to provide sugar for
writing completely pure computations that follow certain patterns. 
‘Reader r’ is equivalent to wrapping ‘r -> …’ around everything, and
‘Writer w’ is equivalent to wrapping ‘(…, w)’ around everything.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:26:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The output from the writer monad has nothing to do with output in the
sense of IO output, either; it’s just an arbitrary monoid that you
get out as a pure value when runWriter returns.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:27:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Enh, ok, true

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:29:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You can think of both Reader and Writer as subsets of State, if you
want.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:29:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Aha, cool, that makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:40:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

SLEEP ON
SLEEP ON
SLEEP ON
SLEEP UNTIL YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:56:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... darcs doesn't have branches, it has pattern-matching on your
commit messages?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 02:56:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

what kind of wizardry is this

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:06:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*reads* Huh, Darcs is actually poorly designed.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:13:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

.... no, Google Translate is not an acceptable answer to "Hi, can
someone who speaks $language please translate this to $language"?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:14:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

In particular, it should have tipped you off that the translation
sucked when Google put unrelated words in the middle of a proper noun

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:39:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

So have y'all reached some form of consensus on names?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:53:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

"Pokemon"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:56:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Is there something reasonably simple we can do to get two names, one
for the host and one for the guest, and then figure out a naming
scheme later? Or do we want to get a naming scheme?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 03:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

gary-oak for the host, Team <organization> for guest?
>.>
<.<
/salespitch voice

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Mon Jan 23 04:00:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Aww, p-p is taken (for the mlp theme)
Also, so is f-s for fluttershy.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 04:00:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Yeah, gary-oak/dr-wily seems like the easy option now and we can
figure things out later

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Mon Jan 23 05:02:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Finally! I have learned the command to resize windows!

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Mon Jan 23 05:02:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Namely, :set mouse=n.

Class: geofft Instance: vim
Time: Mon Jan 23 05:11:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you? <lapentab>

Yaaay!

Class: geofft Instance: story-of-my-life
Time: Mon Jan 23 06:28:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

freenode / #ubuntu-motu / tumbleweed  2012-01-23 06:21  (tumbleweed!~stefanor@ubuntu/member/tumbleweed)
    highvoltage: I need a session on how to actually get a thesis done when there is so much fun OSS stuff to do
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / highvoltage  2012-01-23 06:22  (highvoltage!~highvolta@ubuntu/member/highvoltage)
    yeah I bought a bunch of e-books on time management and how tobe more efficient when doing creative kind of work. but I haven't had the time to read them yet :)
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / tumbleweed  2012-01-23 06:22  (tumbleweed!~stefanor@ubuntu/member/tumbleweed)
    :)
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / highvoltage  2012-01-23 06:22  (highvoltage!~highvolta@ubuntu/member/highvoltage)
    tumbleweed: ah I thought you were very near to the end
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / tumbleweed  2012-01-23 06:22  (tumbleweed!~stefanor@ubuntu/member/tumbleweed)
    time wise, that doesn't mean progress-wise
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / Laney  2012-01-23 06:22  (Laney!~laney@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.laney)
    th...e...sis?
freenode / #ubuntu-motu / tumbleweed  2012-01-23 06:23  (tumbleweed!~stefanor@ubuntu/member/tumbleweed)
    the.... ooh, look, bugs!

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Jan 23 06:49:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

... the length field in a request is 16 bits and the length field in
a reply is 32 bits? Why does this make sense?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 23 07:11:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*hiss*
Dear code that I am using: please suck less

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 23 07:16:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

On further investigation, actually, dear X, please suck less

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 23 07:40:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

*hissssss*

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 23 07:41:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Oh, and *facepalm* too while we're emoting here.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jan 23 09:09:32 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

<stark> As long as we're reserving gary-oak, can we have
gary-motherfucking-oak and gary-motherfuckin-oak as aliases?

Class: geofft Instance: /r/catholicism
Time: Mon Jan 23 10:34:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35s2f4/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 12:05:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Oops, it's past mid-day. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Mon Jan 23 13:29:40 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Yeah... we had that problem with Google Code-In; students were
gtranslating for projects and submitting them for credit.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 20:21:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

awake, will be on campus in like an hour

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:42:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Sigh, I bet I should schedule a geofft-is-leaving mob at some point,
right?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:43:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(er, _food_ mob, to be clear)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:43:19 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

When /are/ you leaving? I meant to ask because of [redacted], but
forgot.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:43:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

You really should.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:44:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'm confused what you're redacting, but, first weekend in February.

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:51:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

...wtf?

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:52:39 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

?

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:56:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

There's been a white bike and some other things declaring itself a
memorial for someone or something, for a few days now... (or is that a
different intersection?)

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:56:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

That's at Vassar.

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:56:38 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That's mass ave/vassar

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:56:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

ah, sorry

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:57:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

ttants: memorial (street), memorial (object)

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:58:44 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 21:59:22 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

But, at the intersection of Memorial Drive and Mass Ave are like four
police cars blocking some lanes of traffic and directing traffic in
some way.

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:02:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

codetaku:  The memorial has been up since the end of last year, and is
for this:  http://tech.mit.edu/V131/N60/kyaw.html
I don't know what's going on at Mass Ave and Mem Drive, though.

Class: geofft Instance: mass-ave-and-memorial
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:03:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

:( I didn't know about that.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:21:35 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Hm, if I try to do have a function of type, oh, MyTypeClass a => IO
[a] or something, it'll get me a list of some specific instance of
the typeclass, not a list of lots of different objects whose types
are part of that typeclass, right?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:21:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

Yes, it will be one specific instance.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:22:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

The latter is IO [exists a. MyTypeClass a => a]

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:22:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

(but you don't have exists, so you'll need to make a datatype constructor
and do the universal->existential trick)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:22:46 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

The... what?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:23:25 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

My current best approach is to just turn this into a datatype with a
huge number of constructors, which kind of sucks (especially since at
the moment the instances of the typeclass are in multiple files...),
but I can deal with that. If there's some magic way I'd be curious

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:24:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

You want

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

data ExMyTypeClass = ExMyTypeClass (forall a. MyTypeClass a => a)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:25:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bob! <ezyang>

you'll only be able to use MyTypeClass functions on the inside of this
data type.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:25:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I still can't believe you're typing a valid programming langauge and
not jibberish...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:26:10 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

*stares*

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:26:28 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Hrmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:27:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Steadman Cinques! <ezyang>

geofft, it's equivalent to

(forall a, P a) -> b <==> exists a, P a -> b

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:27:13 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

agh wait are you changing syntax on me

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:27:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

Yeah, that's Coq.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:27:43 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

ahh. I see.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:28:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

actually, that's not quite right

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:28:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

someone else spell that properly for me. I have a fire to fight...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:29:07 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

I can move this to -c haskell if that's helpful?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:38:31 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

So, if I do this,

{-# LANGUAGE RankNTypes #-}
data ExNum = ExNum (forall a. Num a => a)

I get this:

*Main> :t ExNum 3
ExNum 3 :: ExNum
*Main> :t ExNum (3 :: Int)

<interactive>:1:7:
    Couldn't match expected type `a' against inferred type `Int'
      `a' is a rigid type variable bound by
          the polymorphic type `forall a. (Num a) => a' at
<interactive>:1:0
    In the first argument of `ExNum', namely `(3 :: Int)'
    In the expression: ExNum (3 :: Int)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:39:03 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Same thing on, like, ExNum $ length [] (because length :: [a] -> Int)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:39:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: One to three. <ezyang>

hmm, did I mess that up?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:39:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

yeah, I think I messed up.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:40:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

sorry, do this

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:40:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Look to. <ezyang>

data ExNu = forall a Num a => ExNum a

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:40:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

forall a. Num a => ExNum a

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

(missing period)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:40:57 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Hrmmm

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:41:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

you need the ExistentialQuantification extension too

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:41:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

(this, by the way, is why my Coq term didn't work properly)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:41:26 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Okay, and that makes sense even

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:42:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms! <ezyang>

And that's like saying in Coq

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:43:07 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:43:18 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

linerva-test:/tmp geofft$ cat ex.hs
{-# LANGUAGE ExistentialQuantification #-}
data ExNum = forall a. (Show a, Num a) => ExNum a

instance Show ExNum where
  show (ExNum x) = "ExNum " ++ show x

l :: [ExNum]
l = [ExNum (3 :: Int), ExNum (3 :: Integer)]

main = putStrLn $ show l
linerva-test:/tmp geofft$ runhaskell ex.hs
[ExNum 3,ExNum 3]

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:43:36 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

"Sadly, it isn't too thrilled with me simply deriving Show"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:43:53 2012 Host: LINERVA-TEST.MIT.EDU
From: Please test your strange 32-bit apps on linerva-test <geofft>

Okay, this makes my life suck significantly less. Thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:44:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stand! <ezyang>

Bah. Someone should make that work.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:44:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That's all! <ezyang>

yay

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:44:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

I swear I worked out Haskell's existential notation at some point in the
past

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:44:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Caters! <ezyang>

aha http://blog.ezyang.com/2010/10/existential-type-curry/

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Mon Jan 23 22:45:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Spliced Surprise Major! <ezyang>

Maybe I should reread what I wrote... refresh my memory...

Class: geofft Instance: colbert.i-lol'd
Time: Tue Jan 24 00:48:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"Now, Stephen's exploratory phase is over. And like most exploratory
phases, it was strange, awkward, and ended not long after he left
campus."

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 24 02:18:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

I'd forgotten about Plush Daddy Fly!

Class: geofft Instance: asa
Time: Tue Jan 24 02:21:42 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Oh look, they're on YouTube,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6mMqAgS-kg

Class: geofft Instance: asa-website.q
Time: Tue Jan 24 02:58:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

"merit-based LEF/ARCADE funding"

Class: geofft Instance: asa-website.q
Time: Tue Jan 24 02:58:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

You know, as opposed to need-based Finboard/GSC funding, which is the
full cost of student group tuition, room, and board, less the
Expected Cruft Contribution.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jan 24 03:32:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Awww, no online shrinking in resize2fs? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jan 24 03:33:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

That actually makes things annoying. Hm

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jan 24 05:24:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

YOU ALL SUCK.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Jan 24 05:24:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

(it's unclear what I mean by "you")

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 24 06:01:32 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

Doesn't that say you need at least one of 
[ntp | ntp-server | time-daemon] and you also need at least one of 
[ntpdate | time-daemon]?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Jan 24 06:02:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Rebooting Is Magic <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue Jan 24 16:37:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"I'd like to financially signatize. ... Signate? Signaturize?"
"Sign?"
"Yeah, that."

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Jan 25 20:41:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It'd be useful if brogan graphs had a third axis of "time"

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Wed Jan 25 20:45:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

animations would work well

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jan 25 20:50:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> food -> campus

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:20:44 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Why is everyone singing "Mr. Brightside"?

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:24:01 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: @<ROS: You spun it yourself. (The NPCs are Dead, X-Games, ~5/18. Quoting R&GaD.)> <xavid>

Why aren't /you/ singing Mr. Brightside?

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:21:22 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

'Cause I can sing it better than everyone who's trying to

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:21:41 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Or is this just one person singing it over and over again? Whatever
it is, he can't sing

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:24:54 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, clearly you need to show him how it's done.

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:27:02 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: @<The one is the shadow of the other. (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

A cappella duel!

Class: geofft Instance: w20
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:24:22 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I mean, I think there's like an actual band here, I hear a lot of
banging on drums

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:34:05 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

nextbus-screensaver

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:34:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Automatically put my machine to sleep when I should get up and catch
the bus.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:37:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

That's an *entirely reasonable* idea.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:37:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Ok, that's less reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:34:30 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

(Speaking of which, sigh, missed SafeRide)

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:37:12 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

NextBus has an XML interface I think.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:34:49 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Yes, there's an awesome API

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:35:02 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Yeah, "screen saver that displays NextBus data" is way more reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:38:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yeah, that idea is not even worthy of the instance bad-ideas.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:39:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is that?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:40:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, nm.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:43:10 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

bad-ideas / prnf / kcr  23:45  (the books are your friends.
    Because a Queen cover band would be a whole lot of fun.
kcr /  / UNAUTH: jinstone  23:45  (Jordan Jin Stone)
    Hmm. Still sounds ugly :/
kcr /  / kcr  23:46  (the books are your friends.  everything they say
    It's not a pretty process, but it gets things done eventually.

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:46:41 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

Hm. The obvious approach is a Mary's mob on Monday before the SIPB
meeting

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:50:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sniff* Bye Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:51:01 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sounds like I'm not going to make it to Boston before you leave.

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:47:32 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

I'm sorry I'm leaving everyone :((((

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:48:19 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

(but I have less sympathy for those of you who will be in California
shortly)

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:52:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

A semester is a long time!

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:53:13 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

In a year or two, you will go outside, think "Gah, it's
cold, I need a sweater" and notice that you're shivering in 60° weather.
At that point, you will realize that you either made the right decision, or
that it's time to come back.

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:54:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Goodbye Geoff, goooooobyyyyee Geoff
just came to say... goodbye!

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:54:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Minor! <ezyang>

Don't cry for me Argentina!

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:54:50 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Enjoy California!

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:55:02 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

Welcome, Geoff!

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:51:39 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

... y'all know I'm not leaving for like another week, right?

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:52:07 2012 Host: LINERVA-DEV.MIT.EDU
From: don't use linerva-dev <geofft>

But does Monday afternoon work?

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Wed Jan 25 23:56:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I've known this has been coming for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:00:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Java and JavaScript have the same syntax, that's why it's called
JavaScript, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:02:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(this followed "You should just use a Java crypto implementation and a
JavaScript interpreter for Java bytecode", which made him gibber
incoherently for a bit)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:05:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, how do monad transformers work

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:07:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Actually, the former just made me look up the Sun/Netscape joint
press release that renamed LiveScript to JavaScript. It's kinda funny
in retrospect.

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:08:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

> "Programmers have been overwhelmingly enthusiastic about Java because
> it was designed from the ground up for the Internet. JavaScript is a
> natural fit, since it's also designed for the Internet and
> Unicode-based worldwide use," said Bill Joy, co-founder and vice
> president of research at Sun. "JavaScript will be the most effective
> method to connect HTML-based content to Java applets."

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:09:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Also,

> "JavaScript is a great way to get cross-platform scriptable access to
> databases and move the resulting data into Macromedia Shockwave,
> where it can be rendered, animated and made into live interactive
> multimedia for the Internet. JavaScript is also a promising core
> technology for the new multimedia publishing tool that Macromedia is
> building."

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:10:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, I think I figured this out. Nifty

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:10:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

well hm, I don't really want to write "lift" everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:21:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

faim! (faim!) ripping out libfaim! (faim!)
'cause we want to write our code using Perl's Net::OSCAR!
faim! (faim!) ripping out libfaim! (faim!)
'cause we've got a taste for software that's still maintained!

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:25:07 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I feel young again because you know that song.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:25:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...? Isn't Lady Gaga fairly recent?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:26:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other news, apparently _some_ of our new Linerva maintainers are
completely unfamiliar with the Beatles.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:27:28 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Oop, wrong Fame song.  Oooold again.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:27:35 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(This is what I get for truncating instances.)

Class: geofft Instance: gdb
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:36:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... up and down changes info reg? That simultaneously makes sense and
doesn't

Class: geofft Instance: gdb
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:36:44 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

How does it not make sense?

Class: geofft Instance: gdb
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:36:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(note that it doesn't change all regs, at least not on my architecture)

Class: geofft Instance: gdb
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because it's not the current value of the register in the CPU

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, I totally took the non-nut version of that food, why am I
having an allergic reaction to it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:45:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I guess s/why//.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl.lady-gaga.prnf
Time: Thu Jan 26 01:45:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the old one?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:34:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I have a monad transformer, can I stop saying lift everywhere?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:35:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The obvious approach would be to switch which monad is transforming
which, but I'm using attoparsec which doesn't have a transformer
variant)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:36:19 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Depends on what functions from the base monad you’re calling.  Often
you can find a version that’s parametric over all transformed
versions of the base monad.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Er... "all of them"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:38:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't suppose I could define a (>>=) of type oldmonad a -> (a ->
newmonad b) -> newmonad b?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:56:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I got removed from finboard@? Why does nobody tell me
these things?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jan 26 02:58:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I do!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 26 03:14:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh. Not eating properly yesterday and being asleep most of today
was a mistake.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jan 26 03:15:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've had like three meals and I'm still hungry

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 03:21:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, right, I'm autogenerating this code, I don't care if it's ugly!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Jan 26 03:26:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... that said, if I'm autogenerating this code, I probably want the
other direction of ugliness. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: trolling-davidben
Time: Thu Jan 26 04:28:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(stark) davidben is now explaining C++0x to me, I think he won this
round

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:51:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

a while ago i think you pointed me at a "c as shell" sorta program, so
once can write C programs as pseudo-scripting.  Was it 'tcc'?  or
something else?

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <stum>

tcsh

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:51:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

....

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:51:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are you thinking of Geoff's gccrun?

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:51:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yes, I am.

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 12:53:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ah, and this has the advantage of using gcc, as opposed to me possibly
needing to learn new compiler quirks.

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 13:03:23 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There was another one like that called "cint" or something like that
that I vaguely remember, but it was in Haskell and used gcc-xml and
was *really* fiddly about the versions of haskell and cabal it wanted.

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 13:08:06 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, of ghc and cabal, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 14:19:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Are you thinking of c-repl?

Class: geofft Instance: c as shell
Time: Thu Jan 26 14:39:28 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

broder: Yeah, that was it.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mq
Time: Thu Jan 26 16:10:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"MIT Mechanical Engineering Professor John Lienhard P’15"

Okay, now you're just making up postnominals

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Jan 26 17:17:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

'There are a number of coping strategies that we all adopt in the
face of this kind of surveillance, starting with the specious claim
that "I have nothing to hide." The fact that the attendees decided to
put clothes on before going to the conference that morning (a
decision your editor, at least, much appreciates) demonstrates
otherwise.'

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Jan 26 17:36:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If only we had an enthusiastic prospective with an inexplicable
interest in organizing crufty hardware....

Class: geofft Instance: catholicism-and-the-gays
Time: Thu Jan 26 19:18:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, this essay is awesome.
http://www.jamesalison.co.uk/texts/eng17.html

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:01:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Augh why is my company tweeting so much

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:03:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

because social media is the in thing for corporations these days

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:30:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because we're trying to drum up interest at MacWorld

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:37:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

et tibi redditor votem in Ierusalem

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:46:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh yeah - and speaking of your future employer, finish your damn
thesis! :-P

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:46:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah yeah

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:46:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

When are you supposed to start with us again?

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:46:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A week from Monday?

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:47:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...uh-huh

Class: geofft Instance: @MokaFive
Time: Thu Jan 26 21:47:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, (at least according to the department's website) there are no
extensions, so if I'm not done by February 1, it's not like I'm going
to have the degree before June no matter what I do.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jan 26 22:01:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:59:55 +0000
From: LiveJournal <lj_notify@livejournal.com>
To: geofft@mit.edu
Subject: Purging of your LiveJournal account
----------------------------------------

Dear [info] [www.livejournal.com] http://auth.mit.edu/geofft
[auth.mit.edu]! LiveJournal is planning to start deleting inactive
empty accounts. Pursuant to our housekeeping policy, your LiveJournal
account [info] [www.livejournal.com] http://auth.mit.edu/geofft
[auth.mit.edu] is scheduled to be deleted in 15 days. If you wish to
reactivate your account to avoid deleting, please visit
http://www.livejournal.com and log in within 15 days of this
notification. If you do not remember the password for your account,
you can reset it following instructions over here
[www.livejournal.com].

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jan 26 22:01:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Good luck with that

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Jan 26 22:06:37 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Hahah.

Class: geofft Instance: requies
Time: Thu Jan 26 22:21:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... David Crowder Band's most recent album is a requiem? _weird_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 27 03:14:20 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sigh. I should eat lunch or something.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 27 03:14:25 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no idea what schedule I'm on any more.

Class: geofft Instance: openssl
Time: Fri Jan 27 04:58:03 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, openssl dhparam takes *forever*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 27 13:53:18 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*yawn* -> E42-203

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 27 13:56:01 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jan 27 14:05:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I.. what?

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Jan 27 14:35:45 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"We'll try to not suck."
"Not sucking in general will be appreciated."
"Speaking of not sucking, let's talk about Unity."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 14:41:43 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Proposed Athena hardware monitoring tool: "Panoptiplex"

Class: geofft Instance: release-team.q
Time: Fri Jan 27 15:25:00 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"MokaFive the Exchange servers on top of VMware View"

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:34:22 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Connecting to linerva.mit.edu:22

Connection failed
The socket level is invalid

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:36:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm going to blame your Android phone here

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:43:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Be honest, you're just trolling.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:44:40 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Uh, it's IPsec via GSSAPI. This is exactly the sort of thing I'd be
honestly interested in

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:46:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

All I got out of this was that you're into raccoons.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:47:14 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I do want to use this with my dom.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:47:24 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Since I'm running Xen.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:47:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

We be trollin' with gansters.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:47:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

gangsters

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:48:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

And swans, too?!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:48:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

You have strange fetishes, my friend.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:58:00 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> What is KINK?
Baby don't hurt me...?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:58:56 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

boooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jan 27 16:59:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

That fundamentally goes against *a lot* of kinks.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:36:19 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aaaand the most recent open tab in my Firefox is Pervocracy.

Class: geofft Instance: teeth
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:37:13 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: teeth
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:37:25 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay I like really need to get this wisdom tooth removed, or
sommething

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:38:19 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

See, I wish the default script for sex involved either more singing or
citing of legisation

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:41:00 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Jan 27 17:52:58 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:-D spender replied to a comment of mine

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:01:18 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmmm... what am I misunderstanding here. I have a ~minimal test case
that works in socat but not with Network.connectTo

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:02:32 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Answer: hFlush. *derp*

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:03:47 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It wasn't even a weird complicated monad question"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:08:14 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's no awk -i???

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:13:00 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wheeee progress, also lulz IO monad

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:22:28 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How come every time I talk to davidben we find something hilarious
involving SSL certificates?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:23:02 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Today's news: https://emergency.mit.net/ redirects to
http://emergency.mit.edu/emergency/. https://emergency.mit.edu/, on
the other hand, attempts to use the emergency.mit.net cert

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:23:55 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Will ca.mit.edu be up in an emergency?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:33:32 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because davidben works on chromium.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jan 27 19:35:37 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Well, worked on anyway. Now regularly stalks.

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:50:27 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have ground coffee, milk, sugar, and a French press. doxory:
x) make coffee and tool
y) zzzzzzz

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:50:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(y)

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:51:12 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I have to graduazzzzzzz

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:51:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Tool tomorrow.

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:53:34 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, the correct answer is z) start cold-brewing the coffee and
_then_ sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:54:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Oh, geeze. Yeah, it really is.

Class: geofft Instance: sleepy
Time: Fri Jan 27 21:54:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

get on that

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Jan 27 23:51:47 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wahhhh why doesn't my configuration follow me everywhere

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Jan 27 23:55:38 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "git config --cloud"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Jan 27 23:59:05 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

By "everywhere" do you mean "too many places to sync dotfiles to"?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Jan 27 23:59:38 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't actually sync dotfiles to root on various servers

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:02:53 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Branched double cover all the way across the complex plane! <ageng>

I... huh. What's root doing that makes git config relevant?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:03:07 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

git pull, and making sure that the thing just pulled from an untrusted
source was sane

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:03:17 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(or git fetch, more likely...)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:03:55 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My current complaint is that git log implies a pager, and I have
core.pager = less -+$LESS -FRX, and I'm not used to it not doing that

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:04:29 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My very, very very frequent complaint is that I also have alias.st =
status, alias.br = branch, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:04:52 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We could start shipping a .gitconfig for root...

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:06:45 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Does git have a subcommand-not-found mechanism? If so, someone should
write something that uses it and does prefix matching to find
subcommands. Possibly me.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:20:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

That wouldn’t help if you want ci to be commit and co to be checkout.
(But personally, I just type things out.  It’s not useful to be able
to type faster than I can think.)

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:26:03 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

glasgall: You mean like this?

  $ git comit
  git: 'comit' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

  Did you mean this?
          commit

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:27:44 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

There's even

       help.autocorrect
           Automatically correct and execute mistyped commands after
           waiting for the given number of deciseconds (0.1 sec). If
           more than one command can be deduced from the entered text,
           nothing will be executed. If the value of this option is
           negative, the corrected command will be executed
           immediately. If the value is 0 - the command will be just
           shown but not executed. This is the default.

Though I personally find that kinda terrifying.

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:28:09 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, that's totally not going toa ccidentally destroy your repo.

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:28:42 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'm imagining this combining with some kind of shell autocorrect to
turn "get rest" into "git reset".

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:30:29 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh dear.

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:31:22 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Josh, did you see "wat"?

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:32:31 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:33:25 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:35:28 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

This is excellent. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:46:23 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

The bit on JS turns out to be slightly off (I was bored and poked
about after watching that). [] + {} is actually "[Object object]"
from string concatenation, not another object. {} + [] is different
because of dumb parsing reasons. {} is being parsed as a block. If
you do var a = {} + [], then a is "[Object object]".

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:48:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> dumb parsing reasons
Not that anyone suggested the reasons were smart.

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:49:57 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Sure. But it does mean that {} + [] will never actually occur in
anything but a console, since any attempt to use it as an expression
will parse it object + array.

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:50:05 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

{} + [] = 0, that is

Class: geofft Instance: git.d
Time: Sat Jan 28 00:50:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Dej Sem Mozek <eichin>

<nitpick>also, it's 15 commas, not 16</nitpick>

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:04:14 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sigh, can't find my French press. Ergo can't sleep

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:13:53 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... why do I have a Sun serial/RJ45 adapter?

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:14:02 2012 Host: dr-wily.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... and an ET rubber duck?

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:16:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: He has the attention span of a lightning bolt. - Robert Redford
 <rnjacobs>

Duck typing.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:16:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Never be without your duck.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Jan 28 01:16:53 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

1. because you might @i(need) one.
2. they spawn randomly.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:33:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

HEY GUYS

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:33:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'M DRINKING COFFEE

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:33:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

HI GEOFFT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:33:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AND I'M WRITING CODE AND STUFF

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:41:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Weren't you going to go to sleep?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:41:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

NO WHY WOULD I DO THAT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:41:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I HAVE COFFEE, SLEEP IS IRRELEVANT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:41:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

:D

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:42:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Guys, I think we need to change the athena defcon sign...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:42:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

YES SET IT TO TWENTY

Class: GEOFFT Instance: STATUS
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:44:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: GEOFFREY THOMAS <GEOFFT>

STTY OLCUCOFFEE

Class: GEOFFT Instance: STATUS
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:44:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ALSO I AM SURPRISED THAT KERBEROS IS CASE-SENSITIVE

Class: GEOFFT Instance: STATUS
Time: Sat Jan 28 02:44:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

hahaha. I discovered that one when I made a CamelCase domain. It
didn't work well.

Class: GEOFFT Instance: STATUS
Time: Sat Jan 28 03:09:09 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

THAT'S AN OLD DECISION AND SOME PEOPLE THESE DAYS THINK IT SHOULDN'T
BE; I THINK FREEIPA'S BACK END WILL EVENTUALLY MAKE IT MOSTLY NOT.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 08:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whoo! progress!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 08:55:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

time to sleep!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 08:55:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wait! time to git push to Athena and back up to tarsnap and rsync.net
and _then_ sleep!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jan 28 23:36:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what is this "sleep schedule" you speak of

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jan 29 00:49:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Awesome, I can now write crap like
  parseCardL l e = liftM (decode e) $ replicateM l anyWord8
and get it right on the first try. I _think_ I'm proud of myself, but
I may just actually hate myself and what I've become, instead.

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:12:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

New zsig. Also, all my zephyrs are licensed under the GFDL 1.3+, with
my zsig being a Back-Cover Text (but no Front-Cover Texts or
Invariant Sections).

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:30:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm confused. Your zsig shows up at the front of your zephyr in my style

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:31:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm pretty sure there's no requirement that a Back-Cover Text show up
after the work.

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:31:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But...but...it's called *Back*-Cover!

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:31:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

http://sourceware.org/gdb/current/onlinedocs/gdb/

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:32:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I like how their back-cover text is exactly 25 words. You'd think that
writing a license to exactly your requirements might limit its utility

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 01:34:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

That's a spell limit:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 03:59:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

The following function does not actually _terminate_:

int collatz(int n)
{
    if (n & 1)
        return collatz(3 * n + 1);
    else
        return collatz(n / 2);
}

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:00:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also, apparently my stack depth is slightly short of 2*18 function
calls.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:10:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

That should at least be tail-recursive…

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:14:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

It's... not

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:15:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

#0  collatz (n=1276) at meep.c:5
#1  0x00000000004005b9 in collatz (n=425) at meep.c:8
#2  0x00000000004005ce in collatz (n=850) at meep.c:10
#3  0x00000000004005b9 in collatz (n=283) at meep.c:8
#4  0x00000000004005ce in collatz (n=566) at meep.c:10
#5  0x00000000004005ce in collatz (n=1132) at meep.c:10
#6  0x00000000004005b9 in collatz (n=377) at meep.c:8
#7  0x00000000004005ce in collatz (n=754) at meep.c:10
#8  0x00000000004005b9 in collatz (n=251) at meep.c:8
#9  0x00000000004005ce in collatz (n=502) at meep.c:10
#10 0x00000000004005b9 in collatz (n=167) at meep.c:8
...

Class: geofft Instance: oops.d
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:16:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also, hm, you cannot define this function in Coq, can you? (Or at
least, defining it would imply lots of fame)

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:27:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Did you use -O2?  I get

collatz:
.L5:
        testb   $1, %dil
        je      .L3
.L7:
        leal    1(%rdi,%rdi,2), %edi
        testb   $1, %dil
        jne     .L7
.L3:
        movl    %edi, %eax
        shrl    $31, %eax
        addl    %eax, %edi
        sarl    %edi
        jmp     .L5

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:27:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No, I'm not passing any optimization options.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:27:35 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

which looks like a pretty well-optimized infinite loop to me.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh.gssapi
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"No worthy mechs found" sounds like the plotline to some Japanese
movie, not a Kerberos error message

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:33:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(The unsigned version is faster, though, because / and % are wrong.)

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:34:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

So, -O2 means I can't put a breakpoint on collatz() and have that
work.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Jan 29 04:34:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

(Context is I need some sample code for sipb-iap-gdb)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 05:18:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

xmonad just crashed on me? with a monad failure? THAT IS AWESOME.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Jan 29 05:21:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

(gdb) edit
bash: /bin/ex: No such file or directory

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 06:52:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

eval $(xargs -0n1 < /proc/26771/environ | grep KRB) kinit

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related.AWESOME
Time: Sun Jan 29 09:12:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"Two of the highest-impact journals in AI (in fact, maybe the two
top...I haven't looked recently) are www.jair.org and www.jmlr.org,
both of which are completely free and open.

"I started www.jmlr.org and it wasn't too hard.  If anybody wants
information/advice about how to start such a journal, I'd be happy to
try to help."

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Jan 29 09:53:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

(stark) wait, spender made a commit to grsec as a result of a comment
I made on reddit? wat.

(Admittedly it was a documentation commit but still)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 29 17:20:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

so confused about my slepe schedule

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:04:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I can't reach www.freedesktop.org, and this time it appears to be
their fault and not MIT's!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:07:16 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I can confirm that they seem to be having Problems from here in New
York as well.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:10:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Yeah, I'm only intermittently able to connect if I ssh to Liz's
server (which I think is the only off-campus shell I have...)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:11:31 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

downforeveryoneorjustme.com is on board with you.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:11:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

hah!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:37:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Goals for today:
[ ] eat
[ ] do laundry
[ ] write an MEng thesis

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:56:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

It'd be great if seccomp permitted select() too...

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 19:57:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Actually, wait, do we have bizarro-seccomp yet?

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:00:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Ubuntu is carrying it, but not upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:00:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

There's a new one being wanked about based on BPF

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:02:04 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not *completely* insane.

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:02:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oooh, okay. (Clearly I should have an Ubuntu kernel source tree
sitting around for my `git log` needs, since the other awesome thing
I care about, overlayfs, is also in Ubuntu but not upstream...)

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp.d
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:02:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

i,i
    Signed-off-by: Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>
    [ I don't know if anybody actually uses seccomp, but it's enabled in
      at least both Fedora and SuSE kernels, so maybe somebody is. - Linus ]
    Signed-off-by: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:02:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

You don't have an Ubuntu remote in your linux.git?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:03:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

strace ghci

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:03:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No. Wanna tell me what the remote I should use is? :)

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:03:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-precise.git
(etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:03:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-oneiric.git

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:03:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(etc)

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:04:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

... wait, why are these not branches, also where's "development"

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp.d
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:05:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

:-(
dr-wily:~ geofft$ df -h /
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/xvda1             15G   13G  1.4G  91% /
tyger:~ geofft$ df -h /
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/vg-tyger_root
                       15G   14G  982M  94% /

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp.d
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:06:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Quick, install more packages on linerva!

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:06:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Er, it looks like bizarro-seccomp was just reverted on Precise on Friday?

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:07:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

dunno, maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:07:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

commit 195c5aac1f9bd916693decfc13bc557d8531ee33
Author: Leann Ogasawara <leann.ogasawara@canonical.com>
Date:   Fri Jan 27 11:03:12 2012 -0800

    Revert "CHROMIUM: enable CONFIG_SECCOMP_FILTER and CONFIG_HAVE_SECCOMP_FILTER"

    This reverts commit 72d4faa9bc1968a4e619d7c66db0849351592ca7.

    https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2012-January/018695.html

    "At this point, since there are no consumers of the old API, and it
    will be almost certainly replaced by the BPF API, I think in the face
    of the 5-year support of the LTS release, we should probably just
    remove all of the seccomp_filter patches from Ubuntu." - Kees Cook

    Signed-off-by: Leann Ogasawara <leann.ogasawara@canonical.com>

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:07:48 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But don't worry, it's being replaced with even-more-bizarro-seccomp.

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:08:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

For values of "don't worry" that include "wait what am I supposed to
use _now_"

Class: geofft Instance: seccomp.d
Time: Sun Jan 29 20:14:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

codepad.org is down?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jan 29 21:20:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Aw, adehnert doesn't lke my SELinux cgroups plan for /tmp.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sun Jan 29 21:20:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

It was such a brilliant plan!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Jan 29 22:48:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Reddit's code is under some weird mashup of the MPL and the AGPL?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Jan 29 22:48:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Who thought this was a good idea?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Jan 29 22:49:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

...Aaron Swartz?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Jan 29 22:50:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Well, it says "CondeNet, Inc.", so I'm not sure if the copyrights
simply transfered or Conde Nast also relicensed it

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Sun Jan 29 23:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hsplice: Monad transformers using ptrace!

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:08:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

AUGH

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:08:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

WHY DO COMPUTERS NOT WORK

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:13:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

*punches computers in the face*

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:16:28 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

"I'm assuming your thesis should be about making them work?"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

That was the thesis proposal, but I'm going to see if I can get
Nickolai to sign off on me punching them in the face instead.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:18:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"We ran into certain difficulties in implementation..."

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:19:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Secretly computers don't work because people are incompetent. I guess
I could go punch a bunch of people in the face.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Mon Jan 30 04:30:29 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

"Then it becomes a sociology thesis."

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Mon Jan 30 09:20:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) Computers don't actually work, they just don't work fast
enough that it *looks* like they work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jan 30 15:58:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

*yawn* Welcome to day 2 of "geofft falls asleep for ~8 hours on the couch
where he was working"

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Mon Jan 30 16:14:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

40 hours remain.

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:19:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

http://www.elinux.org/Busybox_replacement_project

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:22:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I thought that's what toolbox was for or something?

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:24:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, that page does say """One additional area of commands which is
outside the traditional busybox coverage area, is Android tools provided
by toolbox. Toolbox is a non-GPL multi-tool program provided as part of
the Android Open Source Project, and used in Android devices. It is
limited in functionality, however, compared to busybox, and so many
developers install busybox in their Android devices to supplement the
command set."""

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:25:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Assuming toolbox is the Android thing, yeah, it's a joke.

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:26:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It might be a starting point, but it is no where near busybox in
terms of "all the standard UNIX utilities you expect, even on a
minimal system"

Class: geofft Instance: !gpl
Time: Mon Jan 30 18:26:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

and their shell is a joke

Class: geofft Instance: md5
Time: Mon Jan 30 20:04:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

>>> a
'M\xc9h\xff\x0e\xe3\\ \x95r\xd4w{r\x15\x87\xd3o\xa7\xb2\x1b\xdcV\xb7J=\xc0x>{\x95\x18\xaf\xbf\xa2'
>>> b
'\xa8(K\xf3n\x8eKU\xb3_Bu\x93\xd8Igm\xa0\xd1'
>>> c
']\x83`\xfb_\x07\xfe\xa2'
>>> hashlib.md5(a + "\x00" + b + "U" + c).hexdigest()
'008ee33a9d58b51cfeb425b0959121c9'
>>> hashlib.md5(a + "\x02" + b + "\xd5" + c).hexdigest()
'008ee33a9d58b51cfeb425b0959121c9'

This is a single-block collision (each of those inputs are 64 bits).
http://marc-stevens.nl/research/md5-1block-collision/

Class: geofft Instance: md5
Time: Mon Jan 30 20:04:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

So yeah, guys, stop using MD5

Class: geofft Instance: md5
Time: Mon Jan 30 20:06:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

"008ee33a9d58b51cfeb425b0959121c9: A hash that will live in infamy"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 30 22:18:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I feel like this code has way too many fromIntegrals in it to be
deserving of the appelation "type-safe"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 30 22:19:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Anyway, time to add more!
[master 3184fbc] fromIntegral: it's like XML and violence.
 2 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jan 30 22:19:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

And now my program typechecks.

Class: geofft Instance: assassin
Time: Mon Jan 30 22:30:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Wiki camp! Get some frosh to run "add scripts; scripts-start" over
the summer, then forget about your wikis and close them halfway
through the year. Next summer, repeat.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Jan 30 23:18:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I sure could go for some SWORD-brand... lunch

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Jan 30 23:39:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

This is the dumbest protocol ever

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Mon Jan 30 23:46:16 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

how so?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 01:35:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

==geofft, though I'm curious as to the particular problem you're
running into

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:00:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Well, at the moment, I'm just so confused why the length of a request
is (4 * lengthfield) and the length of a reply is (32 + lengthfield)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:01:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oh, sorry, 32 + (4 * lengthfield). Not that that makes it too much better

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:05:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Consensus: OpenSSL's command line interface sucks way less than GPG's

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:06:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...really? There are lots of things I can do in GPG without pulling up
docs/manpages. I don't think that's true for OpenSSL

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:08:03 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

the only thing that's preventing me from making it a
tie is that gpg was a significant imporvoment on pgp

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:08:06 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

*improvement

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:10:21 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From:  ... the better you look, the more you'll see. <eichin>

hmm, it's too early for me to dig out Volume 0, and a
quick look at the perl code isn't particularly enlightening.  Do they
make sense as "length of the whole packet, in 4-byte units"?  it was
something like that...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:10:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:10:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, we reached a concensus? I thought you asserted that, and David
and I shrugged at you. Or did David agree?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:11:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Replies just always have an additional 32 bytes for no good reason.
Several replies, in fact, get padded that far.
http://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xproto/x11protocol.html#requests_encoding

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Unless, of course, that document is wrong... because xcb/proto
certainly doesn't seem to be providing padding to get to 32...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:12:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

broder: There are plenty of things I _can't_ do in GPG even if I pull
out the manpage.... I think if I stare at the manpages long enough I
can actually figure out OpenSSL

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:12:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There's nothing more useless than a lock with a voiceprint <eichin>

yeah, that just sounds wrong; the only padding I have
code for is rounding to 4-bytes.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:12:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hm. *socats*

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:13:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Actually maybe wireshark is the right tool here.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:14:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Not disagreeing there. But I would argue that GPG's fundamental
operations are encryption and signing, and both of those are pretty
simple, apart from needing to know about --armor

Similarly, I would argue that OpenSSL's fundamental operation is
generating and signing x509 CSRs/certificates. In spite of having been
doing it for upwards of 6 years now, I *still* have to Google for the
incant every time I need to generate a CSR, and signing is so damn
complicated they had to write a Perl script around it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:14:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

The perl script confuses me, I can do it without the script...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:14:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also, uh, openssl req -new -key foo.key.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:15:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm not really sure how to make that simpler.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:15:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Sarcasm is what separates us from the animals. <eichin>

(Reply Format at the top of that page does say they're
32 bytes - but I think they just *are*, if you look at /usr/include/X11/Xproto.h
you see some of the structs have explicit pad1..padN members...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:15:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes, but as a scripts maintainer, generating CSRs is part of your job.
None of the operations I described above are part of my job, but it
doesn't mean I have to look up how to sign a document on the rare
occasion I need to

(No, Ubuntu uploads don't count, because debsign does it for me)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:17:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I could maybe buy that the behavior of generating a key if you don't
say -key is wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:17:09 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We'll meet again... don't know where, don't know when... but we'll meet again, some sunny day! <eichin>

and if you look at xGenericReply in particular:
    CARD32 length B32;      /* 4 byte quantities beyond size of GenericReply */
so that's "the number of `words' on the wire after the struct" which
is only a bound on the variable length field returned...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:18:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, "Why do I need to specify -new? What else am I going to do with a
CSR?"

Or, "Am I not generating some x509 thing? Why do I use req here and
x509 there?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:18:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I can buy that.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:18:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Artificial intelligence.  Real sarcasm. <eichin>

so yeah, there's no *additional* 32 bytes, the reply
just *is* 32 bytes, which may include some padding, and there may also
be variable length data following [which you can always measure by
looking at bytes 4..7, without looking at anything else in the struct]

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:19:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

The protocol spec says InternAtom looks like this:
     1     1                               Reply
     1                                     unused
     2     CARD16                          sequence number
     4     0                               reply length
     4     ATOM                            atom
           0     None
     20                                    unused

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:19:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Meanwhile, "gpg --armor --sign" just DWIW, and "gpg --armor --encrypt"
gives me a helpful message telling me that I should use -r to specify a
recipient

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:19:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: lonely things like nights I find end finer with a friend <eichin>

yeah. (+ 1 1 2 4 4 20)=>32

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:23:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Right. It confuses me that requests don't have this concept of
"request struct" + "additional stuff", and aren't padded to any
minimum size, and that the length field includes its own measurement,
but that's not true of replies

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:23:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Maybe I skimmed this, but my other complaint is that it's not made
abundantly clear how you parse replies/errors/events. It's obvious
once you look at how the three are encoded, I just wish it was said
in English

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:24:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: his house is in The Village, though... <eichin>

There's plenty of discussion in Volume 0, which I
thought mapped pretty directly to some chunk of xproto

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:26:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Maybe I should have looked at that...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:26:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: open source is love <eichin>

part of it might just be that the server can send
replies, errors, and events, intermixed; the client can only send requests.

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:27:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: one of those slackster, flannel wearing, coffeehouse misanthropes I've been reading about in Newsweek <eichin>

I found it useful back in 1996, for doing the perl implementation. YMMV :-)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:28:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I've got xcb-xml, so my life doesn't _completely_ suck. (Although
xcb-xml is not the most correct thing in the world, sadly)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:32:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

wut. what is MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:32:36 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There are 400,000 words in the english language... and 7 you can't say on TV <eichin>

long gone, I think...

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:34:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"then why is xprop trying to negotiate it"

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:34:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A pint of milk, two pears, and a lottery ticket. <eichin>

probably because it quietly gets an error and keeps
going, and noone's gotten around to taking the code out?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:35:04 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: LeJeune Pendelton Associates -- Influencing Global Change <eichin>

"Bug mode means: relaxing event mask checking in grab
pointer and button requests and window do-not-propagate attributes (to
ignore mask bits which are not applicable); something for
non-overlapping sibling window stacking order; and keeping maximum
keycode below 255 to avoid an Xt toolkit segfault. Unless working with
old client programs then these things are unlikely to be of interest."

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:36:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Great. That's about as useful as a chocolate teapot. <eichin>

by "old" that means "running x11r2 code under x11r4 or r5"
(if I read these bits right, by r6 the request always failed, and
 currently it should get extension-not-found)

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:36:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

yeah, that sounds right.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=25827fde68d3bb02a2b7e05fae53a1d97edf1f76

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:36:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Aaaanyway.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 02:55:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Huh, Colombo isn't on ec-discuss any more? When'd that happen?

Class: geofft Instance: x
Time: Tue Jan 31 03:01:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Right, where was I.
  <request name="InternAtom" opcode="16">
    <field type="BOOL" name="only_if_exists" />
    <field type="CARD16" name="name_len" />
    <pad bytes="2" />
    <list type="char" name="name">
      <fieldref>name_len</fieldref>
    </list>
    <reply>
      <pad bytes="1" />
      <field type="ATOM" name="atom" altenum="Atom" />
    </reply>
  </request>

That <reply> doesn't look like it's got 32 bytes in it... ("Reply" is
implicit, it's got the "unused", "sequence number" and "reply length"
are implicit, it lists the "atom", but the 20 bytes of "unused" are missing.)

It does seem like xcb-xml has this wrong, since there are five
padding bytes in /usr/include/X11/Xproto.h

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:34:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I don't think I've once enjoyes the bar part of being in a bar. I
wonder how to.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:34:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

*enjoyed

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:34:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I just have this indescribable sense of walking in and having all
higher thought be silenced. It doesn't even matter what bar it is.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:35:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I feel similarly, in that it's actually quite hard for me.  One thing
that worked though, the only period in my life in which I could say
with no doubt that I enjoyed the "bar part" of being in a bar is when
I frequented one next to where I worked.  So, it was fun out of
familiarity, not nec. alcoholism. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:37:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I mean, I'm not really much for drinking, so I'm only qualifying this
because e.g. being with friends prevents me from saying "I have never
once enjoyed being in a bar".

Hm, I think the Miracle may be an exception, although that feels more
like a restaurant.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:37:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Why'd you start going there in the first place?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:37:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Miracle TOTALLY counts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:38:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Because it was right across the street from OQO (literally), and on
my first day, a coworker said "want to go across the street for a
beer?"

I then started just going by myself, and was friends with the
owners/bartenders more, and before, any other patrons, in reality.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:39:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Miracle is great because you can pull out a laptop there with a beer
and not feel awkward!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:39:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Huh. "That happens in real life?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:39:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hahaha. Hrrrm, I should do that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:40:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...whoa. You can pull out a laptop at Miracle?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:40:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

[i could not really hack on my laptop at Innermission w/o some amount
of playful heckling]

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:40:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wifi password is the phone number!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:40:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Guys, there is a long tradtion (ok, i can only think of 3 people) of
SIPB members enjoying beers while hacking on laptops at miracle.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:41:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*shrug* By the time I was able to drink at bars, I had already moved to
Kendall, so I was more likely to pull out a laptop at SIPB and more
likely to drink at CBC

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:42:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The thought of combining the two just never really occurred to me. If I
wanted to drink and hack at the same time I'd go to a coffeeshop

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:42:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Evan "Hackadrunkathon" Broder, you can't honestly say that never
occured to you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:43:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, not at a bar at least

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:43:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Wait, there was never a hackdrunkathon at your place?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

But yeah, I mostly agree about the coffeeshop. Usually I have the
problem of not having enough focus, not of having too much. (Usually.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:46:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Me too --  but tht's why its fun :)  if i wanted to get real things
done, i wouldn't leave the house

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:47:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

HA!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I got the following error from ghc:

    My brain just exploded

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jan 31 04:57:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

aaaaand that typechecked.  How did that typecheck

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 16:56:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Shouldn't it be "refreshen", not "refresh"?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:36:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Met with Nickolai. He's totally okay with me not finishing tomorrow
and going off to work, but wants me to write this up in a paper, and
possibly come back at some point to finish off the degree. Which is
entirely reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

(and really likes the work I've done so far)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:37:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Alternatively, FINISH YOUR THEIS O_O

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:38:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm really not sure that the remaining coding work + the remaining
writing work + the remaining analysis work can be done in 23 hours

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:38:53 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

but but but you can't leave then!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:38:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"watch me"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:39:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But you're not enough of a real person! You have obligations!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:39:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I mean, I'm about three years overdue to take a term off for my own
sanity / so I can go soul-searching where by soul-searching I mean
getting-things-done-searching. Even if I didn't have to be at work on
Monday I'd probably take this term off regardless

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 17:46:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

-> breakfast

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 18:42:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Do you have to register for another term to finish the degree?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Jan 31 18:55:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hmm, I should clearly follow along with 824 this term since I didn't
do a good job of it when I took it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 19:00:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

At some point; I'm not really planning to finish in June. I'll talk
to the department though

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:25:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Somebody told me
That you had an iPad
That looks like an Android
That I had in February of last year

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-PLUSHES&Category_Code=PLUSH

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:26:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

DAWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:27:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Ok, I was naturally inclined to severe skepticism when I saw the
instance, but those are kinda adorable.

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:27:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think I would be a little afraid of the Pintsize one coming to life
and stealing my underwear or something.

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:28:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Stealing sounds a little too benign.

Class: geofft Instance: omgomgomg
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:28:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...or worse, someone else's underwear.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:42:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I went for a Whole Foods brand cola. It was _weird_

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I swear it had carrot juice in it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:43:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

CARROT JUICE IS MURDER!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:43:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILM

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:44:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(I posted to -c ahailes earlier)

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:53:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/o4vms.jpg

I'm not sure how I feel about this

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:54:00 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Do you realize it's possible to have a lesbian relationship with your brother? [APO] <wings>

AHHHH SO INCORRECT

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:54:03 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: The wikipedia article on Timon and Pumba is remarkably comprehensive... - pbaranay <wings>

;_;

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:54:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

THROUGH MY FAULT, THROUGH MY FAULT, THROUGH MY MOST GRIEVOUS FAULT

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:54:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Piper, you saw Confused Catholic, right?

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:13 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Wings Hunt! Every IAP we hide a coin ... IN THE SKY. - geofft <wings>

No, I didn't!

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35s2f4/

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:22 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Wings Hunt! Every IAP we hide a coin ... IN THE SKY. - geofft <wings>

AHHH KADUK STOP  *cries*

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35rz4b/

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:49 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Are you talking about sexual desire or syphilis? <wings>

Hah!  

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:55:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

*STRIKES CHEST*

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 20:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I still think the best way to translate that is "my bad, my bad, my real bad"

Class: geofft Instance: /r/Christianity
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:05:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Me a cowboy, me a cowboy, me a Mexican cowboy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:29:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

ow. I can't, like, open my mouth fully.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:29:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Maybe I should talk to a dentist

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:29:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... did someone finally punch you in the face?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:29:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I bet I got a cavity in my wisdom tooth or something awesome like that

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:30:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

yea, I disrecmomend trying to solve that with strace

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:30:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

*disrecommend

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:38:32 2012 Host: eamp.org
From: As Crom is my witness, I'll never go hungry again!
 <rnjacobs>

... Does your TM muscle feel like it's horrifically tense?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:45:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

no? My wisdom tooth feels like it hurts when I open my mouth,that's all.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jan 31 21:45:17 2012 Host: eamp.org
From: Here is a book about Robert Kennedy.
 <rnjacobs>

Ok, good.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:06:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I bet "Yodawg" would be a thoroughly inappropriate name for my project

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:06:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

(thesis project, that is)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:07:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Are you putting a thesis in your thesis?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:07:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No, I'm just putting an X server in your kernel that talks to your X
server and your kernel.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:08:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:08:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

That's the Xzibit version of the abstract.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:08:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

In more seriousness, I'm vaguely considering "liftV". With some form
of (x -> y) -> (VM x -> VM y) pun.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:09:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm not sure if I like it, but it's way more compelling than the
name-for-lack-of-a-better-name it currently has, "vwrap"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:38:48 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Make VM a Functor instance and call it fmap.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:39:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Wait what are we talking about again?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:40:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Naming geofft's thesis project

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:40:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(sandboxing shit inside kvm)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:40:07 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

"So,  you mean Ssik"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jan 31 22:40:36 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

(Comes with added benefit of being able to say "My thesis is ssik")

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:17:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

ugh, pacmd, please link readline or editline or something

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:17:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

ahaha you're trying to configure PA

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:21:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: File a bung report. <ageng>

I kind of wish lua and js would too.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:22:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...but then that'd add unnecessary dependencies where it isn't
expected to be used interactively.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:22:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: File a bung report. <ageng>

So maybe what I want is some sort of terminal IO proxy.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:23:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

rlwrap

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:25:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Wed Feb  1 00:25:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Or any of
$ aptitude search '?provides(^readline-editor$)'
p   ledit                           - line editor for interactive programs
p   rlfe                            - Front-end using readline to "cook" input lines for other programs
i   rlwrap                          - readline feature command line wrapper

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb  1 08:00:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Unsurprisingly, I lost all motivation to work and have been playing games for the last like 10 hours

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:05:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

anneh thinks I should stay for a few weeks and finish it.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:07:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm... unconvinced.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:07:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You are almost done, right? And it's not like you have an apartment
or a plane flight constraining your schedule.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:08:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

But I'm approximately as "almost" done as I wanted to be... way
earlier in IAP.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:08:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There is that.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:08:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

So I'm not sure how much I trust my powers of estimation, and I'm
also not sure how much longer my focus for continuing to do this will
last.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:09:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

The argument in favor is that it's actually in my head and more
likely to get done in k weeks now than k weeks later (there have been
several times over the past year where it was really slow to spin up
again, which was ... part of why it didn't get done earlier)

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-encyclopedia.q
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:12:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"God is described as the Monad of Monads"

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-encyclopedia.q
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:13:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"There is no real action or reaction. No monad can influence another
physically. At the beginning, however, God so pre-arranged the
evolution of the activity of the myriads of monads that according as
the body evolves its own activity, the soul evolves its activity in
such a way as to correspond to the evolution of the activity of the
body."

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-encyclopedia.q
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:16:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

what

Class: geofft Instance: catholic-encyclopedia.q
Time: Wed Feb  1 10:19:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

It sounds almost plausibly about functional programming. Almost.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Feb  1 13:29:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: 3down
Time: Wed Feb  1 15:06:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Well then

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:05:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

x) JetBlue
y) Virgin

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:06:05 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

at same price Virgin

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:07:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

JetBlue's timing is slightly more convenient.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:07:31 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

How slightly?  And will you be sleeping or working or having fun on
the flight?

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:07:41 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

"fun" = "watching media"

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:08:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Um, probably just hacking on my laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:08:09 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Virgin has internet

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:08:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hm, I should charge my giant battery.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:10:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

right, I should do something productive about Facebook and Google accounts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:12:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I think I basically want to
- open geofft.root@gmail.com for my phone to associate with
- consider opening a Google account with a newer moniker than
  "geoffreyerffoeg"
- consider closing my existing Facebook account
- create a new Facebook account without my high school friends
- do more useful things with G+ circles than put everyone in "Friends"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:13:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

- get in the habit of checking plus.google.com

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:13:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Why not just unfriend all your high school friends?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:13:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I have too many :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:13:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also, I really want to just not be associated with the data in this
profile.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:14:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why geofft.root?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:14:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

You can push apps over the web to your phone, and I type my Gmail
password _everywhere_

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:15:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:20:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Whoa, a Mac with Kerberized logins. Weird.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:20:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Do you use 2FA?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:20:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(I can understand why you might not consider that sufficient, but I'm
curious)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:21:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No. I maybe should

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:21:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

Is this fowl-seducktress?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:21:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I've been pretty happy with the 2FA experience.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:22:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Presumably.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:22:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Also, did you see <https://accounts.google.com/sesame>, which has
apparently been discontinued?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:22:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(which is a shame because it was awesome)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:22:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

2FA is cool, although the difficulty generating app-specific passwords
is kind of annoying

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:22:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:23:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

They would show you a QR code, which you scan on your phone, which
then logs in you browser to the google account associated with your
phone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:23:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oooh

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:23:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Sounds like ~exactly what you want.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:23:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oh, I should figure out why my phone's camera app keeps craashing

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:23:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(But, as mentioned, it's discontinued)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:24:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yeah, the app-specific password flow is not great.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:24:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What I'd really like is to be able to create those passwords from the
Android authenticator app

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:48:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Association of All Student Activities that Do Not Contain Themselves

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:52:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Do I address anneh as "Hi Anne"? She seems too legendary to be
addressed by first name, but "Hi Ms. Hunter" seems dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 16:57:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Go with "Hi Anne".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:02:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

"Hi Anne" is fine, or just "Hi"

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:03:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, oops, I forgot to forward to Anne the mail she misdirected to bk@@
(this is the third piece from her I've gotten at that address!)

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:04:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hey zephyr, tell me about Ginger Exchange

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:04:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Is it a place to order food from?

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:04:26 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

I believe I was disappointed by them

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:05:11 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

They are excellently mediocre

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:06:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In fairness, I only had Sushi

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:09:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==jdreed

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:10:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you want sushi, Bluefin is still the right answer in Camberville.
Though I keep hearing good things about EBI in U^2

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:10:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I think we're actually looking for not-sushi. Which might make Ginger
Exchange even more the wrong answer

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:11:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think we're currently looking for "decent Thai curry, plus at least
some non-Thai stuff". We have weirdly specific desires...

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:11:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*heart* Lemon Thai in Somerville if you want Thai delivered

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:11:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(by which I mean, "I want Thai curry, and somebody else wants
not-Thai".)

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:11:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

"and bonus points for places that have ice cream or frozen yogurt"

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:12:12 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

Lemon Thai is fantastic. I approve of it.

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:12:12 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

You can just get Thai and I'll get food in the Student Center...

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:12:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sounds like what oyu really want is one of those defunct NYC delivery
services that will go pick up like N things for $5

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:13:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"I could go pick up N things for $5, that sounds like a half hour in
a zipcar"

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:13:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oooh, I smell a new startup!

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:14:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(starking) I disagree with other people; I love Ginger Exchange

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:14:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It's better if you go in person, though. Get the stone-pot bibimbop

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:15:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe I should have gotten that. I love dolsot bibimbap.

Class: geofft Instance: ginger-exchange
Time: Thu Feb  2 17:15:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

They don't give you a stone pot with takeout/delivery. So you should
only get it if you're eating in.

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:02:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I do not believe you understand the concept of "percentage"
http://web.mit.edu/registrar/reg/costs/11-12proration_spring.html

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:02:58 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: To find happiness, the first step is an /idiot/. - clyde <wings>

Oh man, if only

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:03:55 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So go tell them to multiply by 100.

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:04:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Enh, I'd rather attempt to convince them to charge me .16% of tuition.

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:05:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You realize that's just going to backfire and they'll raise tuition
100x

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:07:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I found one awesome 4BR place that was perfect, only I didn't have
housemates to move in with yet and didn't have a sense what your state
was. It's not as if you're the only one whose input I needed to make
it work, though, so not as if you particularly ruined it.

Class: geofft Instance: math
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Oops, pardon the totally wrong use of reply.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:45:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

If I search for 'Caltrain', I get ads for an injury attorney

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:46:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... That's probably not inconsistent with the "please don't commit suicide by
train" signs all over their right-of-way. :/

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:46:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

Someone was clever about buying adwords.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dixie Grand <kchen>

wow.  (re: rnjacobs)

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:49:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also, why would anyone name their neighborhood "Tenderloin"?

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:50:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998.
 <rnjacobs>

I assume it used to be a meatpacking district.

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Thu Feb  2 18:51:28 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

don't go there, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Feb  2 19:26:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"jhawk isn't a protected class"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Feb  2 19:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Ooooh
http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.4.1/html/users_guide/safe-haskell.html

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:01:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

Yes, Mazieres is in fact cool.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:03:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:04:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

(Mazieres and Terei are behind the Safe Haskell extension)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:04:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

huh. Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:13:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"Wow, sounds like they were competent."
"Or they have mind-altering drugs."
"That does sound more likely."

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

title: Asst. Athletic Director/Senior Woman Administrator

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:32:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

Is that someone who administers and is a woman, or someone who
administers women?

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:32:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

The former.

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:32:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

i,i "Senior Black Correspondent"

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever.d
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:32:28 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: I ♥ strikebreakers! <aatharuv>

"Senior Muslim Correspondent"

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever.d.d
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:32:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"Barack Muslim Obama"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:35:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I... think that's a first. We've found a student group that's
secretly a front for a bunch of non-students... where those
non-students are SAO

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:36:40 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Piper ... IIIIIIIIIN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! - ismith [on Zero Robotics satellites] <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:37:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't that, like, why we don't fund Medlinks? (Well, s/SAO/Medical/,
but I'm guessing you didn't care about SAO in particular?)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:38:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I mostly (wish I could) hold SAO to a higher standard here.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:40:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Tabur Caldera <blehnert>

Why would a group front for SAO?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:41:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"so that SAO can get student group funding"

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:41:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Same reason student groups front for students. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:42:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Tabur Caldera <blehnert>

... Confused. Doesn't SAO administer student accounts?

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:42:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I feel like we would notice if our balance suddenly dropped or not
all groups got their money

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Tabur Caldera <blehnert>

I feel like an MIT department would have enought of a budget that
getting student money would not make a large difference

Class: geofft Instance: asa.n-c
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:43:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"You might think."

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:53:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Not someone who administers senior women?

Class: geofft Instance: most-offensive-title-ever
Time: Thu Feb  2 20:54:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

I'm pretty sure she doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:15:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

... the Anglican province in Rwanda sent missionaries to the US to
found a church that was less accepting of teh gay than the existing
Anglican province in the US (the Episcopal Church)? wat?

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:16:30 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Did the Large Hardon Collider ever find the Higgs bosom? - peairs <wings>

Um

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:16:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Mission_in_the_Americas

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:17:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

That doesn't seem surprising; that's been an issue in the global
Anglican church for a while, with the US on the liberal side of the
divide and African churches on the conservative side

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:19:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Well, so, first, I'm confused whether they're in the Anglican
Communion. I think it's debatable but it sounds like the AMiA argues
it is through Rwanda, and Rwanda is and everyone accepts that, and
TEC definitely is?

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:19:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Second, some people on Reddit who go to AMiA churches say they split
from Rwanda recently? wat
(it's believable that Wikipedia's not updated)

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:20:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

... wait, Nigeria did the _same thing_?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convocation_of_Anglicans_in_North_America

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:20:38 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Yeah, my former church was part of that.

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:22:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Church_in_North_America

I think I'm just mostly confused that full communion isn't transitive

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:23:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

> On December 20, 2011, Archbishop Duncan announced that, due to the
> resignation of the majority of Anglican Mission bishops from the
> Province of Rwanda on December 5, the Anglican Mission had lost its
> "ministry partner" status with the ACNA and that most of AMiA's
> bishops had lost their status in the ACNA's College of Bishops. Talks
> between these bishops and the ACNA are ongoing.[28]

wat

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:24:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oh, Rick Warren was involved here? I vaguely remember hearing that

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:26:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"This sounds like an awesome game of..." *makes gesture of gun to head"
"Monopoly?"

Class: geofft Instance: church-politics
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:29:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

... ACNA is flirting with LCMS? waaat. my head hurts

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:34:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That sums up Monopoly pretty well.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:45:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:43:58 -0500
From: Anne Hunter <anneh@eecs.mit.edu>
To: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Not registering for spring

I'm going to withdraw you for Spring tomorrow.

Anne

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:46:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sniff*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:48:49 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

aww.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 21:59:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Apparently Continited is offering the same price now. Probably don't
want them, though

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:01:59 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Virgin America's Airbuses have in-seat power (2 ports per 3 seats),
some really nice exit rows that you can get for free (iirc) on day of
departure if you ask, and offer a chance at a reasonably priced
buy-up to first class on day of departure, which is probably worth it
because their transcon F product is really nice.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:02:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Oh right, I do vaguely remember in-seat power

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:02:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, the exit rows are upgrade seats. They usually try to charge me to
upgrade - are you sure about getting them for free?

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:02:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Which... I may want... because my big battery isn't charging

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:02:59 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

I asked nicely and it just worked, but yeah, ymmv.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.roomq
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:05:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

"... has been a thorn in whatever body part thorns go in ..."

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:29:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Hm, would a Saturday lunch (maybe 1PM or so) work for people?

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Thu Feb  2 22:29:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are free to copy and modify this GNU Manual. Buying copies from GNU Press supports the FSF in developing GNU and promoting software freedom. <geofft>

Also do I want to do Mary's?

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 23:27:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ugh. I don't want to take a flight that leaves at 8:30 am, or one
that arives at 11 pm, or one without power

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 23:27:22 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

8:30 am ain't bad.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 23:27:31 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

That's late enough that you can T.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Thu Feb  2 23:27:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

It's... more about waking up

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb  3 00:44:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh yeah. Reviving the discussion from Tuesday, "Why the fuck do some
openssl commands take -info and some take -text?"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:39:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

UDS in Oakland! That's way more convenient than like Eastern Europe
or Brazil or whatever

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:40:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yes! It is!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:40:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

For the record, you don't have a choice about going

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Just to be clear, that's that I must go instead of must not go, right?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:41:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Correct

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:42:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

I dunno, man, I'm planning on staying away from Oakland for
the indefinite future.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

#occupymyhouseandlockthedoor

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:44:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's cool. UDS is, like, totally on the other side of the street from
Oakland City Hall. I'm sure we'll be safe

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:44:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And, uh, a full block away from the BART stop

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:44:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

> Oakland City Hall
That still exists? I thought it was a flaming pile of rubble

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:57:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Well played.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Feb  3 01:59:46 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Your soul, your call. :-p - peairs, on MMO's <wings>

I don't get the alt text...

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:00:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I didn't either until I checked the forum. "Etiology."

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:01:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:01:38 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Damned hope, always getting in the way.  Trying to kill our Xenas.  - lexrj <wings>

... whoa, there's a forum

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:06:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Huh, both Google Maps and Bing Maps show signs of confusion at "259
st. paul st"

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:06:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Aha! "saint paul" works, and gets converted to "St Paul St".

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:06:56 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: So everyone should continue to not panic. - 6.01 <wings>

street Paul saint

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:08:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

hmm, works for me.

Class: geofft Instance: et
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:09:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hm. I saw some similar confusion in Google Maps, but it's not exactly
that, you're right.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:12:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Um. I have to check "I agree with all the [fare rules] associated
with this ticket and the terms and conditions in Virgin America's
[contract of carriage]." If I click on "fare rules", it thinks for a
bit and goes "No Fare Rules Available For This Flight."

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:12:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm pretty sure that means I can reschedule and cancel and resell the
flight for free, right?

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:15:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Whoa, Virgin lets you fly with animals that help with your mental or
emotional health (as attested by a psychiatrist or someone)? Cool

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:20:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Surprisingly, the contract of carriage spells out exactly what their
change fees are for various cabin classes.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:20:41 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Usually that stuff lives ONLY in the fare rules. But the CoC for
Virgin America gets pretty specific.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:21:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

(See pages 19-20 of
www.virginamerica.com/html/contract-of-carriage.pdf)

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:22:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Box The Gnat <kchen>

If you want to read the fare rules, you should be able to find them on
ITA's site.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:23:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/418987_10151231630195557_818565556_23018888_1551212361_n.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:24:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Aha! I know what I'm thinking of. The Virgin America A320 has two exit
rows -- row 9 and row 10. Seats in row 10 are marketed as "main cabin
select" and available for advance purchase & assignment. Seats in row
9 are marketed as "main cabin" (the cheapest class of service) but are
still exit row seats, have extra legroom, and can be requested on
day of departure at the airport but in my experience can't be selected
online.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:24:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I did read the contract of carriage. While I was reading it, my
session timed out.

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:25:06 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

BTW, Virgin America gives you 20% off if you buy a ticket with a Visa
card, http://www.virginamerica.com/vx/booking/visanfl.html

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:25:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Imagine if I wanted to get my lawyer to review it!

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:26:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ugh, now I need to read their privacy policy

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:29:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:34:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hm, that seemed not to work. Whatever

Class: geofft Instance: flyxory
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:34:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       I did read the contract of carriage. While I was reading it, my
       session timed out.

iTunes did that to me way BITD!

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:57:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Apparently the person most similar to me is @mitzephyr

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Fri Feb  3 02:59:38 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: MIT are such jerks for inventing science. - codetaku <wings>

And you're most similar to me O.o

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Feb  3 03:30:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Wow, car rental looks expensive

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Feb  3 03:31:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I may just want to rent a car for like a week and plan to buy one. Or
buy a bike as soon as Iand, and deal

Class: geofft Instance: leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 03:31:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also I never made a social list, which is a little unfortunate

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Feb  3 04:08:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

> *Your full name was saved on the confirmed reservation. For your
> security, only the first initial of your last name appears here.

Class: geofft Instance: yelp
Time: Fri Feb  3 04:56:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Well that review went someplace weird...

"Seriously though this place is perfect for extramarital affairs.
[...] (Be aware extramarital affairs are dangerous and may lead to
divorces and domestic dispute, that can result in loss of half of
everything you own and your dignity. Leave it to the professionals)."

Class: geofft Instance: live
Time: Fri Feb  3 07:50:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

If you are looking for long term car rental, you should
look differently (it is priced by the month, and often a
pretty good deal). Also, you should look at corporate
pricing through your new employer.

Class: geofft Instance: live
Time: Fri Feb  3 08:14:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm looking at days to weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: live
Time: Fri Feb  3 08:14:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I intend to acquire a car or bike, I just don't intend to acquire one
as soon as I land.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Feb  3 10:01:10 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[stark] In SFBA you really want a car. Truly.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Fri Feb  3 10:01:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

==
Except perhaps if you're living *and* working in SF itself.

Class: geofft Instance: geoff-is-not-leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 18:28:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

So, was there something about a 1pm mary's mob?

Class: geofft Instance: geoff-is-not-leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:24:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I slept for like 10 hours and failed to pack sufficiently, it's not
happening at this point, sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: geoff-is-not-leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:24:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'll do a "geofft is back in town" mob some weekend in like a month
or three

Class: geofft Instance: geoff-is-not-leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:29:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

geoooooofft

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:46:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Starking, 2FA seems to only support sending me a text or calling me?
My phone doesn't work regularly enough for that to work. :) And it's
latent... I'd prefer something involving an app I can run on my
laptop, or a Yubikey I can buy, or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:46:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It supports an app on your phone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb  3 20:47:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Do I have to enable it to text me, and then get an app on my phone?

Class: geofft Instance: lamson
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:07:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hm, this project looks slightly abandoned.

Class: geofft Instance: geoff-is-not-leaving
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:41:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Yes, you have to enable call/text auth before you can transition to an
app on your phone (this is to ensure that you have a backup auth
mechanism if your app breaks)

Class: geofft Instance: amazon.payphrase
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"Geoffrey's Undefeated Pay"

Class: geofft Instance: lamson
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:52:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I haven't heard from Zed in forever. I hope he's OK.

Class: geofft Instance: lamson.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:53:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

https://github.com/zedshaw/lamson/commit/b0f646d96bae29eb6e9ca2bfcb44f88a4e288ac2

Class: geofft Instance: lamson.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:54:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, that's... something.

Class: geofft Instance: lamson.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 21:54:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, that sounds like Zed.

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:09:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have the following items that I don't particularly care to ship to
California if I can avoid it:

- a Casio Privia PX-130 keyboard, 88 keys, built-in speakers, USB port,
various other fancy features, only lightly used over the last semester. It
works with your standard composing apps on Linux, and presumably works
with your standard composing apps on other operating systems too. I
bought it for $450, so I'm going to say $300 or so.
http://amzn.com/B002IVK0FE

- a Dell 21.5" ST2210B flat-screen computer monitor with a broken
VGA-decoding circuit, so it's only really useful if you want to use
it with DVI or HDMI. I don't have any computers that do DVI or HDMI
out, so it's useless for me; $50 or best offer.

Let me know if you want them; you can either grab them from ET today or
tomorrow, or I can drop by while I'm ZipCar'ing my stuff from campus
tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:10:24 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Bethany was looking for a monitor...

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:14:12 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: As a result, a scheduled change of course was missed and the ship was brought to a halt by one of the Greek islands. <eichin>

... what are the standard composing apps on Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:17:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

MuseScore is what I've been playing with. It certainly works
out-of-the-box with ALSA's MIDI support

Class: geofft Instance: lamson
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:19:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Perl makes them do bad things too. <eichin>

(starking) he's active on twitter, and I thought
he mentioned the lamson server he's *running* relatively recently,
though his main projects right now are learn-*-the-hard-way...

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:21:12 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: jag försöker skaffa mig ett liv. <eichin>

cool, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: lamson
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:22:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I should probably get on that twitter thing some day.

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale.d
Time: Fri Feb  3 22:22:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I also make a fair amount of use of NoteWorthy in Wine :) since
Wine's ALSA MIDI support is competent, and NoteWorthy is what I've
been using for the last few years and what my fingers are trained to
use

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Feb  4 00:36:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ctrl-facepalm Ctrl-headdesk

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Dear brain, why have you constructed a dubstep remix of "He Watching
Over Israel" and gotten it stuck in my head

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:45:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... Um. Can I not do things with budget.com other than start a new
rental?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:45:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Not even find a phone number or list of locations or anything?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:46:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Wait, this website is slightly confused. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:46:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://www.budget.com/budgetWeb/locationsearch/location.ex?checkPulStatus=false&checkDolStatus=false&showCntry=false

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:46:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

How did you get that?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:47:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I went to the home page and clicked locations...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:47:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

That seems to be giving me the page to start a new rental.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:47:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

By "home page", do you mean the page to start a new rental?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:47:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I went to "budget.com" clicked on "locations" and then clicked on
"Massachusetts"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I don't have a "locations" link. I just have a page to start a new
rental.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:48:35 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Click on the Budget logo.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:48:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

/mit/achernya/Public/budget.png

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:49:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oooh.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Okay, thank you.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:49:12 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(If you're using mobile, don't.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:49:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm not. I cleared cookies and I think I got more links at the bottom

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:49:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What browser are you using?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:50:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Iceweasel 8

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:50:47 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'd expect that to work, what sort of horror do you run for
extensions?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:50:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Nothing

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:50:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"Well there's your problem."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:53:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I may have been being dumb. Either that, or the cookies MIT set to
let me use the MIT discount were doing strange things

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:53:54 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

You don't need any cookies, just use BCD code T240204

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:54:14 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(Also, if you're over 25, it's often higher than their standard rates.
I don't think you're over 25 though.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 01:55:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not. :(

It does have that, I just decided to click a link from VPF's website

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 02:20:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

You know what would be nice?if client certs worked

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Feb  4 02:55:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I still don't know what the correct UI for Ccs is, but this is not it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 07:06:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... pid_t is signed? wat

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 08:44:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

From: Virgin America <no-reply@virginamerica.com>
Subject: It's Time to Check In:

wait wat

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 08:51:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Do I know anyone who's likely to see Bill Cutter anytime soon? I have
some music that should go back to him

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 09:33:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

kaduk?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 09:33:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

also i-mail?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 09:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

It's a bit too big to fit.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Feb  4 10:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

James of the D'oubervilles

Class: geofft Instance: observations-from-the-last-few-hours
Time: Sat Feb  4 10:50:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

- It's a good thing I took out a ZipCar, I hadn't swapped in "how to
  drive" in weeks
- Apparently if you lock a ZipCar via the ZipCar interface, it locks
  the engine. (I pressed the lock button on my phone, and had to call
  them to figure out why my car wasn't starting.)
- Woah, Coolidge Corner looks cool. How did I completely miss it. :(

Class: geofft Instance: observations-from-the-last-few-hours
Time: Sat Feb  4 10:50:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

- Perhaps 6.858 should stop requiring homework in paper. (Or I should
  not bother to shred homework.)

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Feb  4 11:07:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I lol'd.
http://eprint.iacr.org/2010/337.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 11:25:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Things I was supposed to do today, partial list:
[ ] pack
Things I was not supposed to do today, partial list:
[X] accidentally raise the price of laundry at ET
Go me?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 11:26:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

On the plus side, I know how to reprogram commercial laundry machines
now. (This is approximately as exciting as in high school when I
learned about the 4231 trick on Coke machines.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 11:29:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

what

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 11:40:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Apparently ET's washer is Special, and someone was fixing its
Specialness, which involved putting it in maintenance mode. I
attempted to try to get it out of maintenance mode by randomly
pressing buttons; when someone who knew what they were doing put it
back into normal mode, my random button pressing had evidently done
something

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 12:07:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

If you leave some music in the office, I should be able to get it to
Bill.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Feb  4 12:11:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sat Feb  4 12:32:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yay.

There's now just music and a 6.002 labkit in my drawer; if you can
deal with the music, and someone can decide they want the labkit, my
drawer is free to be reused

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb  4 13:23:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

oh right, I'm checking bags :(

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:34:30 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

I was just looking up 6.857 in sixweb!

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:36:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

You got "knowledgeable regarding the course material, but often
failed to return problem sets in a timely manner." Score.

Class: geofft Instance: 
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:36:29 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Oh ahah. "Grading: The class provided almost no grading feedback.
Students never saw grades for any of their problem sets or for the
design project checkpoints, and grades for the exam were received just
before drop date. The actual grading, however, was rather generous,
with the exam having a B+ average." (There was an exam? Is that new?)

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:44:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Speaking of sixweb, is anyone else teaching an IAP class? They have
been *hilariously* incompetent at getting the review site up for IAP...

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:45:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I thought sixweb stopped doing their course reviews and got everyone
rolled into the overall MIT ones. At least, we didn't have Course 6
surveys in Fall.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:45:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brookline Hills. <stum>

the survey questions from sixweb got rolled into the "rest of MIT"
system.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:46:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Eliot. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

but we still had the "What's Hot?" questions, et al.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:48:43 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

I thought sixweb was always just one person (Shreyes, BITD), rotating
every few semesters, who was generally overworked and set aside a day
a week to reply to Anne's e-mails about setting things up.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:49:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Well, whoever it is this year is Fucking It Up.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:49:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

TUrns out it's geofft this year.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:50:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

After explicitly asking us for a list of instructors and TAs over a
week ago, and for instructor's comments, they missed their target
date for getting it live, only included two of our ~6 staff, and told
us they had ignored the instructor's comments we sent them, and told
us to re-enter it.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:51:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Ah-ha! Re-reading the thread, I see:

> I apologize if this happening a bit later than we would've liked,
> but we mobilized efforts very late because initially we weren't
> planning on doing IAP evaluations at all due to our change to the
> Institute system

which jives with earlier claims on this class.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:52:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Also, the whole thread has been pretty steam-of-conscious on their end.

> When everyone has responded we will open the evaluations and give
> the students 1-2 weeks to respond. Actually why don't you also
> express a preference for how long you think we should give them
> to respond in your email.

"You have a backspace key, you know."

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Sat Feb  4 15:52:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"you could rewrite that to make it sound like you had any idea what
you were doing, instead of making it all up as you go"

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Sat Feb  4 16:55:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Digital piano sold, non-VGA monitor still up for sale

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:11:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

On a rather huge tangent, I feel like I really, really thought the
public school system was broken in lots of ways when I was in it, and
I have mostly forgotten that, and I'm not sure whether it's that in
retrospect it didn't suck that much or that I decided not to commit
the ways that it sucked to memory.

I'm a little worried for society that it's the latter, and everyone
does this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:12:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I think a lot of it is the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:12:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Definitely the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:12:47 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I bet people who get out of prison do the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:15:11 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I think it sucked plenty but I found that it was an educational
suckage, like... this is how much a lot of the world sucks, and this
is how you get your way in it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:25:07 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Freedom of speech for people in high school is really important while
you're in high school!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:27:27 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I bet things are pretty ba dfor Jessica Ahlquist.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:29:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

But she at least has the ACLU and the national media. I wonder who
doesn't have even that voice.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:34:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Anyway, I wonder how to regain an accurate feel for what issues there
are. I suspect even full-time teachers don't realy know

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:35:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Talk to smart high school students on the internet. They
are easy to find.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:35:34 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Create some kind of collaboratively edited forum and then
seed it with an AskReddit or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:38:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hm. Believeable.
It'll be a biased sample; is it biased in a useful way?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:38:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

If your goal is to remind yourself of problems, you just
need a good selection of problems, not a statistically
valid one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:39:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Once you identify a particular problem, statistics might be
part of the solution or advocacy, but they come second.

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:43:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did Liz fall through?

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:52:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'll ask her again

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:53:40 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

non-VGA monitor?

Class: geofft Instance: for-sale
Time: Sat Feb  4 17:54:10 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

oh.  I'll buy that off you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:49:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Huh, I deal very interestingly with disappearing deadlines.

(Tonight's disappearing deadline: there's a 24-hour Fedex in H^2, so
I don't really need to get everything packed and to the Coolidge
Corner FedEx in the next... 10 minutes)

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

MIT Association for Unix Processes
Officer list: fork-exec@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:55:55 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

As a frosh, yes, I still remember high school sucking.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:56:50 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

"stark much?"

I am kind of still of the opinion that HS is what you make of it, to
some extent. But maybe I was lucky.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:57:32 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

I remember high school sucking.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:58:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

I still have nightmares about having to go back to High School because I
forgot to graduate!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 20:58:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

But I don't really remember what my specific grievances were...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:00:04 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

My (public) high school was quite good, I thought.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:00:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do you remember the bullshit english teacher? I hated that one. Or
howe about playing favorites? Or assigned guidance counselors? Or
stupid rules that make no sense? Or mandatory *assigned* teams.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:00:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My (public) high school was considered to be quite good (state math
champions eight years in a row!), but I remember finding many things
to fault with it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:00:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Although really, I think the being-treated-like-criminals thing is
quite annoying. Drug dogs searching every few months...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:01:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

What I hated most was the attitude among grown-ups everywhere that,
left to our own devices, we high schoolers wouldn't accomplish
anything good.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:01:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Branched double cover all the way across the complex plane! <ageng>

so more or less ==achernya

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:02:44 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

We had an open campus, a lot of choice in class selection, and no
searches to speak of, despite having known druggies.  Of course, I
grew up in one of the most liberal cities in the country.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:02:54 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

> bullshit english teacher
The one I had for two years knew that it was a joke, so he was pretty
free-form in his teaching (especially since the second year I had him
it was an independent study class where he got to ramble about his
favorite topic: postmodernism).

> playing favorites
...?

> assigned guidance counselors
Mine knew that it was a bad system, and we all tried to make the best
of it together?

> stupid rules that made no sense
Bypassed as many of those as I could, I think. (I got two "required"
classes waived by writing mail to the superintendent.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:03:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, and modern high school is a GPA game. Valedictorian means nothing
these days.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:05:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> > bullshit english teacher
This, and all of the other bullshit teachers I've had were the ones
taht decided they were going to "teach me a lesson" so I would "learn
my place".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:05:26 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

OHH. Yes, that. I was extremely bitter for many years about that. My
graduating class was the last to not have weighted GPAs, and thus my
class ranking was way lower than it ought to have been. I guess it
didn't end up mattering /too/ much, though?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:07:07 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I found that every English teacher I had would grade differently,
such that I would start out the term as a C student and struggle my
way up to a low A.  (We didn't have +/- grades or GPA weightings, or
valedictorians.)  But I did feel like I was learning something in the
process each time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:07:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

also == on the GPA game, though I stopped feeling so much hate on
that front once I noticed how rat-racey the rest of the world was.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:08:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oooh and I get to complain about 4 years of english being mandatory,
but only 3 years of math and 3 years of science.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:08:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Amusingly, I definitely learned the most from the english class that I
got a C+ in, as opposed to the other classes which I got B+es in.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:08:48 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Alex: Try only 2 of science.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:09:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Cathy: Wait, really???! We had 1 year of "physical science"
(introductory physics for freshmen), 1 year of biology and 1 year of
chemistry.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:09:42 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

I guess, looking back, I vaguely wish that AP classes didn't have the
"if you get a 5, we automatically give you an A" rule, because I
didn't really work in those classes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:10:16 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Yeah. There was integrated science, which was a joke (maybe it
involved some geology? I never took it), and then they picked one of
bio/chem/physics.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:10:51 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

You were confident enough ahead of time in getting a 5 that you didn't
feel motivated to work?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:11:54 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Yeah. I never did homework for that class, except for stuff that was
due, which was stuff due on the day of exams. But I defintely remember
that for at least one of the exams, I remembered that I had that 7th
period exam in 5th period, and was done with everything, more or less,
in time.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:12:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, then there was the math class that had homework optional if you
were getting an A in the class ... starting a month in.  I didn't do
(practically) any homework in the first month, but was still getting
an A.  (The teacher was not very happy about this.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:12:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I quit high school two years early and went to college, and I have
absolutely no positive memories whatsoever of it. Easily the two
worst years of my life.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:13:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I almost wish I had done that. But I doubt I'd have been admitted
anywhere i wanted to go.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:13:27 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Interestingly, ~all of the people from my MS gifted program the year
before me did that, but ~none of the people my year did.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:14:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I still have nightmares about having to go back to high school for
some incomprehensible reason, and I left it over ten years ago now.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:15:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We'll meet again... don't know where, don't know when... but we'll meet again, some sunny day! <eichin>

I basically had sudo access the head of the science
department, so I got to bypass a lot of administrative BS.  (Didn't realize
until a lot later how useful that had been.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:15:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The Rainbow of Doom <eichin>

(in that whole "privilege isn't visible to those who
have it" sort of way)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:16:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "invisible process keyring"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:19:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

My high school experience had good things and bad things.  
Class ranking was a GPA game that was heavily exacerbated by weighted
GPAs--I don't know how it worked in other people's districts, but
honors/AP/etc. gave an *additive* bonus to the GPA, so among the
students with straight A's it was just a matter of how many random
things you could manage to get credit for.
I didn't have the treated-like-criminals thing as bad as it sounds
like some other people did, but we certainly had occasional bag
searches that I recall getting pissed about.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:21:11 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

> bag searches
o_O

> additive bonus
...isn't it supposed to?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:22:21 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

Like, without that, it "penalizes" people who take harder classes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 21:22:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

I don't know about "supposed."  I honestly don't know if there's a
"good" or "fair" way to do it.  I was just stating that that's how my
district did it, and I don't know about other districts.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb  4 23:38:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Pass Thru <kchen>

My school system had an additive thing too (with an inifinite number
of classes, you could get an inifnite GPA), although it wasn't
strictly a straight A thing -- the valedictorian had a few Bs.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:00:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

AUGHHHHHHHHH

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

bags need to be checked in 45 minutes. I'm not going to be... calm
about... leaving in 45 minutes.

I suspect I may once again apply my "exchange money for sanity"
approach to airline travel

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:05:21 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

If you miss your scheduled flight and show up at about the right time,
most carriers (including Virgin America) will take care of you.
Especially if you indicate a willingness to pay them money and have a
good explanation for why you're late (stressful move is more than good
enough), it's very likely that you'll end up with a pretty good
outcome.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:06:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

IIRC the contract of carriage says that I can just show up within two
hours and not have an excuse and they'll standby me for a later
flight, but the only other Virgin flight arrives at basically
midnight. Which will be stressful in its own way.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:07:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I suppose the right answer is to keep doing what I'm doing, aim to
leave in ~10 minutes but see what happens, and attempt to see if I
can get a flight on a _different_ carrier.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:07:45 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Jeez, your time constraints sound pretty tight.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:09:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

The upside is that pretty much any same-day ticket you buy will be
refundable (any time prior to departure), and they're affordable
($340 on US Airways, dep 10 a.m.-arr 4 p.m.).

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:11:25 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

A carrier can rebook you on another carrier, but if they
have their own direct flight they'll only do that with a
lot of status or a better story than yours ("you need to
rebook me or I will miss the funeral")

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints.d
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:12:33 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Not sure that VX has any interline booking agreements with US
carriers. (JetBlue actually will do AA, which is an interesting
low-cost+legacy combination.)

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints.d
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:15:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

The saddest conversation I heard recently was someone with a UA gate
agent: "What do you mean there are no other flights for twenty hours?
This is terrible, I have to get home." "Look, I can't tell you to ask
for a refund from us and walk one terminal over and buy a ticket from
Southwest, but they do fly that route and it looks like they have
some flights for sale ..." "You are so unhelpful! I'm going to go
wait for my flight." "..."

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:16:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, I looked at the prices, it's not terrible. Depends how much I care.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:16:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Anyway, an additional suitcase would help here, but that doesn't
really sound tractable.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:17:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

This probably isn't helpful, but I get enormous space savings by
rolling clothes. Like 50% extra suitcase room vs. folding.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:18:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

They're not even folded at the moment. (See instance.)

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:18:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Er, that was unclear. They're in suitcases, but tossed/crumpled.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:20:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Okay, ugh. I actually basically _cannot transport my diploma_ without
more time to think. Plan at this point is to drop by the airport and
see what they do, and if the flight that arrives at midnight is it, I
will only find it inconvenient, not paralyzingly stressful.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 07:26:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

and on further further consideration, I could use some sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 08:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

.... well then. Virgin's gate agents are gone because they have no
flights until like 5

Class: geofft Instance: on-how-i-respond-to-stress-and-time-constraints
Time: Sun Feb  5 08:56:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

success! at the advice of some wandering TSA folk, knocked on a door
labeled "American Eagle / Virgin America" until someone showed up

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Feb  5 09:46:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

How did his diploma get counterindicated?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Sun Feb  5 15:21:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

ASA GBM agenda, you are not homework, why are you in a stack of
homework

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

checked in. waiting to board.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have a good flight.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Come back and visit sometime.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(VX 357)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:57:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

see you soon!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 18:59:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Bye geofft!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 19:01:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Have a safe flight!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 19:03:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Thanks all. adehnert: Yeah, I'll figure that out once I get there

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb  5 19:14:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... this plane's decor reminds me of Halo. In a "Flood on a Plane" way.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:36:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Okay, rental car places, what do you have against debit cards?
Or cash???

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:37:03 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Joydrop – Dream Today
 <rnjacobs>

Can't put liens on them, i think.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:37:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It was an uncivilized planet... it probably wasn't even on the Net. -- Vernor Vinge <eichin>

yeah. "neither gets them an access to more money if you fuck up"

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:37:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"maybe I should take a zipcar"

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:38:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Joydrop – Cocoon
 <rnjacobs>

"You could get the night rate!"

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:38:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

yes, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:38:26 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: strong testing, not strong typing <eichin>

or an uber :)

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:38:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Provided I get back to the airport by 8 am, it'd be cheaper than a cab

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:40:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Joydrop – Cocoon
 <rnjacobs>

So, Geoff, how long have you been awake now? ;p

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:41:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Uh, like an hour, I slept on the plane :)

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 02:42:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Joydrop – Over + Under
 <rnjacobs>

Oh, so given your sleep schedule it's not so obviously a terrible idea.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 12:54:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

aughhh my inbox exploded since last night

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 12:56:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Dude, your inbox exploded in the last like 90 minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 12:57:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Caltrain doesn't have wifi, does it? *sigh* I should really get my
phone to tether

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 12:57:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"y'all should remove me from ASA lists"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 12:58:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Really I should separate my MIT and personal inboxes...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:00:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also if I'm going to keep sending mail from Athena, I should set up my
dotfiles to export TZ=America/Los_Angeles or something.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:06:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oh, I should, like, tell my academic advisor I'm not a student.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:19:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

wooooooo multiarch!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:19:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I should upgrade my laptop tonight

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:27:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Was there anything to this fight beyond Guillem being a jerk?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:37:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:38:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I mean, I haven't actually paid enough attention to tell who's being a
jerk. On the face of it, KiBi NMUing dpkg over objections sounds like
jerkish behavior...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:38:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Guillem does say he wants code review of the branch.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb  6 13:39:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also I don't know what the Ubuntu compatibility story is, since Debian's
is apparently not yet guaranteed interface-stable

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:46:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

I basically have no sympathy for you. Get a credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:47:29 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

==Waseem
People have been telling you to do this for years. Or at least months.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:48:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

==everyone, why do you have this dysfunction?

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:49:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have a credit card! I just ran out my credit limit over the weekend :(

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:49:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Probably not having been in a situation where he needed to care before.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:49:29 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Sounds like a fun weekend"

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:49:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Hahha. geofft I would TOTALLY GO TO VEGAS WITH YOU any weekend you
want.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:49:59 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

you have a job now. ask for your credit limit to be bumped. I did
that the week I moved to California from the east coast.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

we're going in March!

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

you should come!

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have a $1000 credit limit (yay MITFCU) and paid for, like, plane
tickets and FedExing my life across the country.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I know you have one, but seriously, I am confused why people end up
thinking not using a credit card is a good idea in this day and age.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

In fairness, moving cross-country is something that can easily break a
college student's credit limit.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah ... you need a higher credit limit

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:46 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You probably could have paid it off mid-cycle.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:50:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Geoff, you should get a REAL credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I tried to do that over the weekend, but it wouldn't take effect
until the business day. (It still hasn't taken effect, which confuses
me.)

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

==lizdenys, MITFCU cards are just insulting.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But now that you have credit history, you should be able to get a real
one.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

MITFCU cards are great to get later in life, when you already have
other cards with 5-figure limits.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

That sounds like effort. That also sounds like having to make moral
decisions, which is no fun. If I had noticed this last week during
the week I could have paid off my balance

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:51:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In the short term, whore yourself out to BoA.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:04 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

jdreed: What are they good for? I found that MITFCU was
like the B-ark of banks.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

Then you can get cash back or some other rewards, be better protected
against fraud in online ordering (getting money back in debit cards
because of fradulent charges is a huge PITA or so I hear), and be one of
the cool kids!

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, they're good for not giving my money to Chase.  

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

==glasgall, I'm copnfused how this is moral

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I've had way worse experiences with BoA than Chase

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:52:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

-c mix, liz

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:53:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

OH sorry "You both have yellow classes and start with g"

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:53:14 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

BoA sucks more than others this year.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

is chase usually some sort of bastion of evil?

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:53:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What finally drove me away from Chase was their "We'll take anywhere
from 1-4 days to post your payment.  But if you pay us $12.95, we'll
post it the next day."   Meanwhile, Amex will post my payments on
Sundays.  It was a no-brainer

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:54:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

nod. I've found Chase rewards to be much better than Amex

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:54:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

and more widely accepted

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:54:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This was an actualy Chase card.  Supposedly the Amazon card (serviced
by Chase) is less overtly mafia-esque

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:56:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Surprising absolutely no one, my ability to download the MokaFive
corporate VM mumble onto my laptop is thwarted by running Debian.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:56:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Just write debathena-mokafive-chroot and move on

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:57:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also, the entirety of computing power at my desk that's not my laptop
is... a linksys router. I guess we're trying to dogfood BYOC.

(I hear I'll get some computers later today)

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:58:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:58:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Okay, why do you have a router? You should flash it with Tomato or
OpenWRT or something.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:59:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Part of your dogfooding is to put every user being their
own crappy nat?

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 14:59:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I guess it's a switch. Which probably means there's nothing to reflash.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 15:00:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"hub, router, switch, 5ESS, same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 15:00:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If you think a hub and a router are the same thing, may the packet
loss be with you.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:06:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

BYOC works less well when you're running Debian testing

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:13:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Fortunately stable has wine.

I still don't have the baremetal build-deps, though

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:13:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also my boss is making fun of my Kids PC :(

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:14:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

"tell him it came with lego batman"

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:15:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

WHATHTHECRAPWINDOWS8

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:15:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's pretty speshul.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:16:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ohgodohgodgivemegnome3back

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 19:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... Windows Explorer now looks like a cross between Office and
Konqueror

Class: geofft Instance: jabber
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:08:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ugh, I should cancel my G+ account.

Class: geofft Instance: jabber
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:09:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I don't want my gtalk account to be associated with it

Class: geofft Instance: jabber
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:11:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"What, you don't want to chat with 1t1tjm78z0hog3tzs7l42629r4@public.talk.google.com ?"

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:12:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That sounds like a particular special combination.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:27:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do they not buy you a laptop for work?

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:27:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm going to get some number of machines tomorrow once IT finishes
setting things up.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:28:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

At the moment I have a spare laptop that we reinstalled with
BareMetal, and... a laptop my boss installed Windows 8 on.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:28:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(And my own laptop.)

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:29:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Windows @b{8}?

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Does it have secure boot enabled?

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:32:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't remember whether the beta I tried did SB or not.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:33:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

achernya: Yes. Every time the screen locks he has to come over and
type his Hotmail password.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:33:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

It's really not the full Windows 8 Developer Preview experience unless
it's running on a slate device.

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Mon Feb  6 20:34:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Is that like a tablet device?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:41:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Missed Caltrain by like one minute. They show up hourly starting at 8
pm :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:41:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"Welcome to California"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:41:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

And starting at 9 am, which means that Caltrain is probably not for
me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:41:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Judging from the experience of ... everyone else I know out there ...
we can expect about one such zephyr a week from you for the next ...
forever.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:42:14 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Fishfingers and custard. <wings>

"You're in California, get a car"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:44:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah yeah, as soon as I get an apartment and a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:46:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I mean, the more relevant thing is that this station is not really
what one would call walking distance from work. I stopped to buy fast
food and toiletries and it took me over an hour, which means it was
probably at least 40 minutes just walking

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:47:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Why do you need a haircut?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:48:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Derris-Kharlan – Forcystus
 <rnjacobs>

2-3 miles isn't really, no.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:48:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Derris-Kharlan – Forcystus
 <rnjacobs>

Totally bikeable, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:49:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Provided Caltrain has room for a bike.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:49:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Derris-Kharlan – Forcystus
 <rnjacobs>

I thought I remembered there being an explicit bike policy when we took it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:49:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Derris-Kharlan – Forcystus
 <rnjacobs>

(Or you could get a commuter bike)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:49:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

The policy is "here is a bike car, if it gets full, no bike for you"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:49:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Derris-Kharlan – Forcystus
 <rnjacobs>

s/commuter/foldable/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:50:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, it's true. I should, like, go bike shopping

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:50:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I totally coped with Caltrain while *I* was interning in San Jose and
living in Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

afarrell: Because it makes showering less effort

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:50:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Spokelseskladden – Follow Up
 <rnjacobs>

jtu has this nice collapsable bike that folds into a ... 8"x20"x16" volume.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:51:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Brompton?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:51:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

There aren't too many folding bikes that make themselves truly tiny.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:52:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Anyway, part of why I'm taking Caltrain is to figure out if I want to
be taking Caltrain. If I end up disliking it, I'll just live in
O(Palo Alto) or get a car or something.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:52:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(I'll get a car regardless, I'm pretty sure)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:52:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Spokelseskladden – Follow Up
 <rnjacobs>

I didn't ask her for a brand...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:54:04 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

Geoff: Where are you commuting from?

(Moka5 is in RWC, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:54:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Spokelseskladden – TGV Decoder
 <rnjacobs>

But the pictures from their website look close to my memory.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:55:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I am at the moment crashing with people who live in the city

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:55:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, right, Redwood City is like one town down, isn't it...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:55:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"It's got the nearest DMV to Palo Alto, if you care."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:56:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

It's like Redwood City - Menlo Park - Palo Alto - maybe something
else? - Mountain View.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 00:59:46 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

Depending on where you are in the city ->BART->Millbrae->Caltrain
might be more convenient, at least on the city end, but check
transit.511.org and ask melg for more advice on commuting from the city to
Redwood City

But yeah, ==wings, get a car. I lived in suburbia (San Mateo) sans
car for a year and it was extremely annoying at best.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 01:00:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

aatharuv: The hard part is Caltrain<->work, not home<->Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 01:00:53 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: @@mantra(there is no such thing as "extended ascii") <aatharuv>

Check samtrans's website to see if there's a reasonably convenient bus?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 01:01:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Places in the city I'm looking at are commutable to BART, it looks like.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 01:01:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hm, possibly. There's a Real People Hours shuttle from work

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 02:57:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Woo, made it back.

Class: geofft Instance: shutupandtakemymoney
Time: Tue Feb  7 04:18:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, what is this about going to Vegas with Waseem and geofft? That
sounds awesome, can I come?

(Yes, I know I'm behind, but I, uh, just got back from Vegas :-P)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 04:36:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

MokaFive is not Caltrain accessible. I feel like I've been quite
explicit about this in the past...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 04:40:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Oracle is only Caltrain accessible because there are shuttles)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb  7 04:43:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, see above about credit card issues and not having a rental car.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb  7 12:19:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oh right, I looked at Gmane's source yesterday. It's impressively crap
for such a good end result

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb  7 12:21:19 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

All good UIs have crap code.  The Mac OS System 7 code was legendary,
I'm told.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb  7 12:21:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

This one has multiple hardcoded subdirectories of /home

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:56:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:58:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I would hate credit cards less if they didn't get in my way

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:58:09 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What happened?

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:59:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have a hold from the hotel I reserved in case I needed a hotel,
which eats up my available credit

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:59:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

And once Budget attempts to charge you a certain amount, they can't
attempt to charge you less until the nxt business day

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:59:49 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are you not able to get your credit limit raised?

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 13:59:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

so I used up _both_ my credit and debit card this way

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:00:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Not for one business day

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:01:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Anyway, -> Enterprise

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:01:23 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

Withdraw cash, and use taxi's from RWC caltrain to Moka5. 

Yellow Cab (650) 361-1234 is reliable in the mid peninsula.

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:01:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Caltrain is too slow at this point

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:04:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have gobs of cash on my person WHICH MAKES THIS SO MUCH MORE
FRUSTRATING

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:09:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Enterprise doesn't have any cars. -J ZipCar

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:09:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

er, "-> ZipCar"

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:10:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, if it were "-j" instead, it'd be *almost* that in iptables.

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:11:03 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

++

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:11:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

iptables -p derp -j FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 14:14:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i ipt_FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.ko

Class: geofft Instance: car.rental
Time: Tue Feb  7 15:23:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Good luck...

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Tue Feb  7 19:40:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Why does the floor keep shaking :(

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Tue Feb  7 19:40:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ABILENE (adj.) Descriptive of the pleasing coolness on the reverse side of the pillow. <ahailes>

you're in CA...

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Tue Feb  7 19:40:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Would you rather have the big one?"

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Tue Feb  7 19:42:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I mean, I suspect it's just people walking and the floor being
insufficiently damped

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:26:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

No, dch, I did not in fact need a package with version number
7.10.2-0ubuntu2.1mokafive1ubuntu1

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:26:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

i,i 7.10.2-0ubuntu1ubuntu1ubuntu1ubuntu1ubuntu1

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:26:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

ITYM 7.10.2-0ubuntu1ubuntu2ubuntu3ubuntu4ubuntu5

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:28:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

No, no, it's the first Ubuntu patch to the first Ubuntu patch to the &c.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:49:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Okay, whose brilliant idea was debian/rules.d

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:49:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Why would you ever do that.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:51:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... debian/rules clean rebuilds debian/control? PREPARE TO MEET YOUR
FTBFSIASW DOOM

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:51:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Failts to Build from Source...IASW?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:52:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:52:29 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

In a sane way. Aka does strange things.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:53:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh. You two just called Debian/Ubuntu sane. 

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:53:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I guess FTBFSIASW is not actually "you do dumb things to
debian/control".

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:53:18 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Often FTBFSIASW makes the maintainer's life easier, and its hard to
catch for arch-all packages, but its bad if somebody else looks at
your packaging. 

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:53:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Fine, "in a standard way" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Feb  7 22:54:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Sure, but the FAQ says sane. I want to call bullshit, given that what
I've seen Ubuntu do to beautiful debian/rules files *cough* byobu
*cough*

Class: geofft Instance: mailq
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:06:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: John Hawkinson <jhawk@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:09:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

aaaaaah I looked at our Windows kernel driver source aaaaaaaaaah

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:10:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Er, are we turning off the VPN concentrator? Or just desupporting the
app to connect to it? Or something else entirely?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"everything I know about Catholicism I learned from Wikipedia and
Reddit"

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:12:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

And Cardinal Newman, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:42:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Blah, why is MokaFive not close to anything :(

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:44:25 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

close to anything to expensive.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:44:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A winner never quits.  A quitter never wins.
 <rnjacobs>

er, "is expensive"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:45:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"You need more density"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:45:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

srsly.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:45:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"can we open a Boston office"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:46:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I'd work there"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:46:37 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Installing Linux on a Dead Badger for Dummies <aatharuv>

Obviously, you need a San Francisco office, or even a Palo Alto office.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:48:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ooh, I want an SF office

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"surely there's a free lounge in front of Monica Lam's office we can
take over, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

But yeah. We're half an hour by bike from downtown Palo Alto, which
isn't clearly better than half an hour by car from San Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You have a bike already?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm going by Google estimates, which might be off

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:49:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Proofredrs wnted.
 <rnjacobs>

The best way to get exercise is to make it part of your commute :p

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:50:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Are you still in the same place in Redwood City?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:50:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think so. We're just off of the Woodside Rd. exit from 101

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:50:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is Palo Alto more dense or more housingful than Redwood City?

Class: geofft Instance: mailq
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:51:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Isnt' it crazy that our emails were also some of the...more unexpectedly
reasoned kinds of interactions that you might have expected from the
intersection of the two of us?

Class: geofft Instance: mailq
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I was too scared to open it.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:52:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I biked to work half an hour a day last summer, and 45 minutes the
summer before. It worked fine. (Winter will probably be a bit more
annoying, at least if you mind biking in the rain. I think the
temperature should be totally workable.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:52:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Redwood City is like a local minimum of cool stuff

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:52:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hah.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:52:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

I'd love to live there... if I had kids and I were 35

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:52:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I don't actually remember how long it took me to do my seven miles one
way back when I was working as a blacksmith.  I did need to take a
breather and rehydrate once I got there, though.  (It was summer in
Urbana, so pretty warm.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:53:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"There's a Jack in the Box"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:53:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

If I had kids and I were 35, I'd buy a house in Palo Alto

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

And a nice library and some theaters, but it all shuts _right the fuck down_ at
10pm or less

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:54:53 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i guess i'm not 35 (38) and i have no kids.

palo alto looks ok until you want to eat late and then you want to
stab yourself

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:54:59 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

woodside and 101 appears to be the most annoying part of Redwood
City. Closer to Caltrain is a little nicer.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

Downtown redwood city has some good restaurants.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Also, did I tell you I once ended up on the 101 onramp on my bicycle?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Downtown sucks less, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

uhhh

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

Don't do that, it sucks

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-3/5) <ternus>

I didn't take the right turn towards the M5 office

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:55:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

> Don't do that, it sucks
"Really? I would never have guessed"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:56:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

In my opinion, living on the peninsula without a car is only tolerable
because I can walk to both a grocery store and the caltrain. It's
still kind of annoying though.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:56:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Where are you these days? (I guess "where do you work" is more relevant)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:58:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

Oracle, living in Belmont.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:59:36 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i could live there with a bike if i had a cart. it would still kinda
suck

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 17:59:41 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(just) a bike i mean

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:00:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm kind of undoubtedly going to get a car.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:00:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(I finally successfully got a rental car today! yayyyy)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:02:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

have you determined that the commute from SF is no good?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:03:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

By car, it's not objectionable.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:03:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

nod

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:04:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I'm mostly lamenting that the commute from anywhere else worth living
is not clearly more optimal. (The options are basically SF -> car ->
M5, SF -> Caltrain -> bike -> M5 which will probably suck, or closer
to M5 -> bike -> M5, and the closest worthwhile place to M5 is Palo
Alto)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:04:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(or closer to M5 -> car -> M5)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:09:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I can say from experience that a 10 minute car drive from PA sucks less
than my 40+ minute drive from the north tip of SF

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:10:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

My commute is currently really short by bike, but I still dislike
Belmont as a place to live (it's really boring)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:12:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

broder: The places we're looking at are about 15 minutes closer than
you according to Google Maps (30-31 vs. 45), so that's at least
something.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:12:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, being at the wrong end of SF definitely makes a difference

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:12:59 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Life is more amusing without context <aatharuv>

What neighborhoods are you looking at?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:15:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

We're currently looking at the Mission. I'm just following the
housing mob; I don't (yet) have strong opinions on neighborhoods

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:16:27 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Member of mutually exclusive sets. <aatharuv>

I live in Glen Park, and have a 2-4 minute drive to 280. It's one of
the quieter neighborhoods in SF, but is very convenient to BART and
Muni, and pretty close to the mission.

The Mission is more interesting and should be easy enough to get onto
101 from there.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:17:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the Mission has All the Food

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:17:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Glen Park! I accidentally ended up there

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:17:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I got confused as to which direction I wanted to take the BART

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:18:24 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: zephyring is not unpacking <aatharuv>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:19:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, the places we're looking at are all of about two minutes from
101 by car. (Provided parking is reasonable)

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:23:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I wonder how long it'll take me to be used to not being named geofft

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:23:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What are you named?

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:25:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

==, the old VPN is the only one that iOS supports, AFAIK

Class: geofft Instance: ist-all
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:26:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

iOS sucks then

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:49:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

gthomas

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:49:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Hey people who lived in Random, how reasonable are y'all's diswashers
compared to real ones?
(I'm looking at a place without a dishwasher and trying to figure out
if "buy a portable dishwasher" will work)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:50:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

Porta-washers are pretty reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Square Thru 3 <kchen>

I often hear Random residents complaining about people throwing
unrinsed dishes in dishwashers because the dishwashers aren't magic,
while my real dishwasher works perfectly fine with unrinsed dishes.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the dishwashers in random had trouble with stuff getting stuck, so you had to
rinse the dishes beforehand, which is not a problem that our current dishwasher
has

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

but I don't know how much of that was because it was a portable washer and how
much of that was because of the type of washer

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Explode The Line <kchen>

However, I suspect this is specific to the dishwasher and not because
it was portable.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Ah. "I do that anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> Porta-washers are pretty reasonable

Any brand recommendations? I could really use one.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:51:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

My old apartment's dishwasher could deal with some but not all
unrinsed dishes

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:52:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As Couples 1/4 In <kchen>

(The only problem I've found with my dishwasher is that bread dough
gets over everything.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:52:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There are dishwasher detergent TV ads that would have you believe it's
a function of the detergent and not the washer. I'm not sure whether or
not I buy that

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:53:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Square Thru 3 <kchen>

Oh, that's a good point.  We use "Cascade Complete", and I think the
"Complete" part has helped.  We also use the "Auto Wash" option rather
than the "Regular Wash" option, which was sometimes good enough, and
sometimes not.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:54:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Explode The Line <kchen>

(Although actually, we did use non-Complete for a while, and it seemed
to work.  But I do seem to remember Complete helping at some point.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 18:54:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wheel & Deal & Spread <kchen>

(The dishwasher's instructions also recommend powder, so we do that
too.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Wed Feb  8 19:08:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

geofft.isyournewdishwasher.csail.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 19:41:38 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not that this changes your main conclusion, but I imagine the PA -> bike
-> M5 route wouldn't be that bad.  One of my coworkers does basically the
reverse.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 19:41:59 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think in part he decided he was way out of shape and wanted to get
regular exercise, which is a sane thing to decide.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Feb  8 19:46:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

stat(1) / stat -L (don't / do follow links)
stat(2) / lstat (do / don't follow links)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:02:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

UNITY

WHY U RESPOND TO SUPER KEY WHEN QEMU HAS KEYBOARD GRABBED

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:05:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

... how have you guys had a 64-message-long thread about gzip -9

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:05:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:23:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Apparently the conclusion of this thread is we are completely
rethinking multiarch woooo.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:31:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...just in time for the archive to freeze?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:36:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

Wat. 

What's the subject line?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:38:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I may have been exaggerating a bit.

But the conclusion is that we can't reliably get compressed files to
compress to the same thing, so we're going to do
/usr/share/doc/package:arch instead of /usr/share/package, and kill
the rule that multiple arches of the same package can provide the
same file

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:39:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

WAT.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:40:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/20120208161319.GA24222@gaara.hadrons.org

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:41:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"The subject line is Re: Please test gzip -9n - related to dpkg with
multiarch support but there are five dozen of those"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:41:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I think vorlon is proposing we do the former and not the latter
(since strictly speaking there's no point in killing the rule, we
just need to trigger it less often), which would at least make Ubuntu
not hate its life.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:42:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

http://www.ericagrieder.com/uploads/5/9/4/0/5940045/2130408_orig.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:43:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oh, and we're moving changelog.Debian.gz and copyright from
/usr/share/doc to /var/lib/dpkg/info.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:43:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

that actually makes some amount of sense

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:43:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

AKA "I think you'll need a bigger duck."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:44:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oh, and we're stopping compressing those files (because .debs are
already compressed), and having dpkg compress them when writing them
out instead. (Or not, according to local sysadmin preference.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:45:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Oh, and binNMUs no longer get changelog entries.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb  8 20:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow, I only read part of that thread so far. Nic.e

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Wed Feb  8 22:38:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

<starking> The portadishwashers that Random has are @i{ancient}. I'm vaguely
surprised they haven't started falling apart.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Feb  9 00:39:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

This duck image is remarkable.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 15:03:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

oops, slept for 12 hours. I'm no longer convinced melatonin helps me
dayshift

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 15:04:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Although considering how dangerously sleepy I was on the drive home the
last two days, that may not have been the wrong answer

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:28:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Random's zip code?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:28:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

02139

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:28:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

thanks

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:28:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why would it be different from the rest of MIT's?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:29:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"Because it's far"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:29:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

re: differing from the rest of MIT
Some of MIT is in 02142.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:29:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

By that logic, Simmons and W91 should have different zip codes.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:29:40 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: 6-1 6-2 6-3: department of the beast. - ismith <wings>

East Campus is 02142

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:29:56 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, you hit his ovary with my sperm? - shawest <wings>

(Though 02139 will still work)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:30:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I thought EC was 02139 and SH and beyond were 02142

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:30:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

No, EC is definitely 02142.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:31:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Star Thru, Pass Thru <kchen>

When I worked on 6.170 psets, I found it interesting that the Tiger
street database we used listed Ames St in both 02139 and 02142.  But
==others about EC in 02142.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:31:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ET is 02446.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:31:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"I have that one already"
Also, "ET isn't in Cambridge"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:33:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have only $106 left in my checking account? Ooops

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:33:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

   geofft / ask-zephyr / AUTH: achernya  2012-02-09 17:28:58  (Alexander Chernyakhovsky) / DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
       Why would it be different from the rest of MIT's?
-> geofft / ask-zephyr / AUTH: geofft  2012-02-09 17:29:09  (A GNU Manual) / DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
       "Because it's far"
-> geofft / ask-zephyr / AUTH: achernya  2012-02-09 17:29:39  (Alexander Chernyakhovsky) / DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
       By that logic, Simmons and W91 should have different zip codes.

Erm, yeah. I probably wouldn't bother to ask if 1 and 3 had different
zipcodes. Given that Simmons, W91, W20, and Random are moderately far
away, it makes sense to ask about them... Would I expect four
distinct zip codes? No. Would I be suprised by two? No.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:34:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

fwiw, that's another advantage I like about credit cards -- I never
have to worry about my checking account balance.  My work direct
deposits go into my savings account, and once a month, an automatic
payment comes out of my savings account.  I only have to worry about
my checking balance for the rare checks I write.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:35:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

i,i "but then you have to worry about your credit limit"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:35:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I think I actually do want to worry about how much money I'm spending...

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:38:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

It's just as easy to check a credit card balance as a debit card one.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:44:15 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Wanted: A blessed wand of social engineering <aatharuv>

Also, you won't run into contention between overly-large debit card
holds and the rare checks (e.g. apartment rent), that you need to
handle. 

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

So, if I'm requesting a credit limit increase ... what should I request?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Should I just say one meeelion dollars, and assume that they'll lower
it to whatever they're willing to grant?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:48:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

20K or 10K seem reasonable, if they're above your current. My credit
card limit is 6400. I just clicked a BoA button that said "Request
increase" and they decided how much. Basically go for multiples of
1.25K, geometrically.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:48:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

MITFCU is giving me a blank field.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:48:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

10K

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:48:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(My current limit is $1000, which is dumb.)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:48:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Also a blank field: "Please enter a word here that will be used for
security purposes"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:06 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I think I'm going to go with an `openssl rand -base64 20`.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run <kchen>

Citibank has an automated thing too (sometimes, if it's been long
enough since your last increase).  5-10k is probably reasonable.  I've
heard MITFCU is bad about credit limits; I have no idea how often
that's true.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:20 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: zephyring is not unpacking <aatharuv>

The last time I did this (the only time I did this), I told them that
I have a job now, am making $SALARY, and want my credit limit increased,
so they bumped it up to $5,000. 

The formal note from the CC company telling me that I had been
approved, told me that I was approved for that amount, but that if I
had requested a lower limit, I would get that.

$10K seems reasonable these days, I did this several years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:21 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

"FLÜGGÅƎNK∂€ČHIŒβØL∫ÊN"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:49:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

You may just want to apply for a new card and tell them your current
salary. They'll give you something reasonable most likely.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:50:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Yeah, I should get around to that at some point

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:50:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

There's an MITFCU alum card that starts out at $15-25K, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:50:29 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

That's adorable.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:50:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

A CLI request often means a hard pull, which you probably don't want
if you're going to apply for a new card soon.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:50:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Half Tag <kchen>

The rewards on that card aren't very good.  But that's a reasonable
credit limit.  (I looked at the rewards yesterday because of
discussion elsewhere.)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:51:37 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Hard pull?

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:51:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

I'm increasingly less convinced that expending effort to figure otu
how to get 2% back on purchases is a better deal than expending effort
to spend 3% less.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:52:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Walk & Dodge <kchen>

There are two kinds of credit report pulls -- hard and soft.  Hard
ones affect your score and show up to all people who pull your report,
while soft do not.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:52:37 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

What determines which kind you get?  (Having your credit checks
affects your credit?)

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:52:38 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

A request for new credit is usually a hard pull, e.g. when you apply
for an auto loan or a mortgage, or when you open a cell phone account
(seriously).

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:52:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bend The Line <kchen>

Two many hard pulls in a short amount of time hurts your score.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:53:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Fan The Top & Spread <kchen>

s/Two/Too/

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:53:18 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

It's loosely coupled with applying for a lot of new credit lines,
which is a sign that you might be a poor risk.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:53:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

One of the reasons I *got* a credit card in the first place was so
that I could get my own cell phone plan without having to put down an
eye-watering deposit.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:53:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"This is why I have a prepaid cell phone plan"

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:53:48 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: By 2010, according to senior Intel architects, a CPU will have 
processing power equivalent to the brain of a bumble bee - The Economist, several years back.
(Is this actually true now?) <aatharuv>

A soft pull is for when, say $FOO wants to send you an unsolicited
credit card request.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:54:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

Anyway, I'm not particularly enthused about getting another credit
card, so if the bureaucrats want to think I'm a sketchball, I don't care

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:54:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Allemande Left <kchen>

I think RCN did a credit pull too.  I forget if Comcast and NSTAR did.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:55:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, you care if you want to be able to get a cell phone, or rent an
apartment, or (sometimes) open accounts for utilities, or rent a car,
or...

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:57:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Left Wheel Fan Thru <kchen>

*looks at old credit reports* RCN and NSTAR both did soft pulls.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:57:59 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Now that you've got one credit card, it's too late to opt out of The
Reporting System.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:58:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Huh, nstar never did a pull on my credit report.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:58:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Over time, your average age of accounts will increase, as will your
number of on-time payments, and your balance utilization will
continue to be reported (hopefully as some very low number). You're
becoming a Good Risk without your knowledge or consent.

Class: geofft Instance: ask-zephyr.d
Time: Thu Feb  9 17:58:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Welcome to the System"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:12:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

"you know, I would understand Windows a lot better if it were Linux"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:25:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

All right, success, I have used the Windows kernel debugger to crash
my system

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:25:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I have no idea why it did that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:25:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

I was hoping to use the debugger to figure out why my system is
crashing for no good reason, but I guess I was overly optimistic

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:25:59 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Like, outside the VM?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:26:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:26:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(I did hang the VMM a few times, though)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:28:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A GNU Manual <geofft>

(but that was easy enough to fix by attaching gdb to the VMM)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:29:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you liked virtualization <geofft>

(new zsig)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb  9 18:52:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

I'm currently suspecting that qemu's serial driver is funky, which is
reeeally not a yak I want to shave anytime soon

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:15:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Hm, lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:16:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Even with timezones, you're still late.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:16:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bend The Line <kchen>

I infrequently eat lunch at 4:15 PM.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:16:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

er, not infrequently.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:19:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Right, I should try out this Stanford-MIT wormhole at some point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:19:41 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"Hold a SIPB meeting in Stata"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:19:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:20:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:20:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, why is there an I? I didn't type that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:54:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

All you new TAs have read "The Torch or the Firehose", right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:54:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

http://web.mit.edu/tll/teaching-materials/torch-hose.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb  9 19:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

I have!  But I only just did earlier this week despite having the
booklet since something like freshman year.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:05:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Blah, where is the "automatically change the brightness of my screen
for no good reason" checkbox

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:05:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: POONA (n.) Satisfied grunting noise made when sitting back after a good meal. <ahailes>

on or off?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:06:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, it's somewhere under "gsettings list-recursively
org.gnome.ettings-daemon.plugins.power"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:06:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Probably "idle-dim-battery"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:07:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

I don't think I have one of those. Is that new in post-Natty?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:07:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Err, yeah. In that case, look in gconf around
/apps/gnome-power-manager

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:07:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

But it's not that, it's based on an ambient light sensor (a la a Mac
laptop). If I tilt my laptop it gets brighter for a few seconds and
goes back once I tilt my laptop to some useful angle

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:08:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

rmmod the light sensor module

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:08:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

And I'm plugged in to power

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:09:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm, I don't know what controls that

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:09:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

The Ubuntu fora claim this is a hardware thing and I might be able to
deal with it in the BIOS

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That seems probable

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

sysfs claims
Cgthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ cat /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/actual_brightness 
15
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ cat /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness 
15
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ cat /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/max_brightness 
15
and I'm distinctly not at full brightness right now

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Tape over the light sensor!

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

I don't even know where it is :(

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:53 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm going to bet next to the webcam

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Usually by the camera

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:10:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Also, shouldn't that be "tape an LED over the light sensor"?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:11:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

The webcam. Hm. I have a webcam?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:11:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Err, maybe? Usually if it's too dark the algorithm turns off, I
thought.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Okay, I tilted my laptop a few times and have succesfully confused it
into staying bright.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:15:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What machine is this?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:16:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

A Dell Latitude E6410

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:31:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

In other news, Telepathy's Bonjour implementation is telepathy-salut.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:33:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

In other other news, can someone implement "KVM Tools"?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:52:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Oh wait, Red Hat did!

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:53:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Like, guest tools?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:54:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:54:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Except I may need to use a SPICE client for it to work.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:55:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

See the "Windows binaries" section of
http://www.spice-space.org/download.html, and everything in `man
qemu` that talks about spice

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:56:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Oooh, and \exists xserver-xorg-video-qxl

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:57:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It is very strange to see "RedHat Enterprise Virtualization" on
packages.ubuntu.com

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:57:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

But there appears to be no spice client in natty, which is a little silly.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think vinagre does it.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 20:59:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:00:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Natty's doesn't seem to

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:00:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Your kvm doesn't support SPICE either

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:01:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(You need the separate qemu-spice source package recently introduced
into precise because nobody wanted to promote all of the SPICE
dependencies into main)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Hm. Then where are my graphics going if I -vga qxl?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:02:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

FIIK

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Feb  9 21:10:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yo dawg, we heard you like virtualization <geofft>

Secretly I just want VMware with the qemu UI. Or something.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:24:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I'm not finding myself hating the commute. Even though I spent a
bunch of time trying to find street parking yesterday and today, and
took the wrong exit today.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:24:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Flip The Diamond <kchen>

How long is it?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:25:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

street parking around the haight is particularly heinous

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:26:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

The Haight allows overnight parking without resident permits, right?
I think the Mission doesn't, which would make things suck less.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:27:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Buuuut apparently someone else got to filling out an app for the
place we wanted before us, so we probably won't get it!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:27:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

sad :(

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:27:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

er, it does in certain areas and doesn't in others

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:28:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Hm, the newer Android keyboard phone is just $160. Vaguely tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:30:24 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Did you just a phone?

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:30:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

No, but this phone is really low on RAM and oom kills all the time

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:31:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How low? I have 512 and it oom kills once a week-ish.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:32:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

160, looks like?

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:33:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

It's not that great a phone, except for the keyboard and the plan

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:34:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are you going to be ssh'ing as much now as you used to/

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:34:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Probably?

Which is to say, "Hm, I should figure out how to ssh to work"

Class: geofft Instance: haight
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:38:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Also, four passers-by offered to sell me weed today. (Two on the way
to where I'd parked in the morning, two on the way back.) I guess
this is like the one place in America where you should expect that,
but still

Class: geofft Instance: haight
Time: Fri Feb 10 00:41:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

its *the haight*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:11:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Okay, what is with mileycyrus.com and Epiphany. Works fine in
Firefox^WIceweasel

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:13:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Hm, same thing happens in uzbl, which means I get to file an awesome
bug against webkit-gtk

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:21:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:22:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I'm slowly concluding that the right answer is for Debian to
deprecate packages by supporting releasing a version of the package
that means "I'm dead", not by simply making something else conflict
with it

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:22:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

then I can tell aptitude to start considering removing things a bad
idea

Class: geofft Instance: aptitude
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:26:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Okay, I must have hit "no" a thousand times, and now it wants to
remove gnome

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:40:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, why do I have a zcrypt stuck in keyctl()

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 01:41:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Or maybe I'm misreading /proc/$pid/syscall? gdb said it was stuck in
poll()

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:04:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/jtJbn.gif

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:23:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Dear mono package maintainer, ttants: changelog, NEWS

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:26:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Also, what is with all these racist Chinese landlords

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:28:51 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:31:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

e.g. http://www.supost.com/post/index/101038

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

Some combination of "smoking", "cook", and earlier happenings made me
read that line as "No smoking pot and light cook" at first.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:43:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

http://www.sporcle.com/games/sproutcm/my-little-pony-or-porn-star

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:46:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Also, http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:51:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha, #4 was Sussman.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:52:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I think I just tried to edit my home page by starting typing "sudo vi
/etc/"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:52:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

6/10! I'm better than a coin flip!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:56:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

28/45. Go me?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 10 02:57:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

ianyh managed a 37 somehow.

Class: geofft Instance: craigslist.q
Time: Fri Feb 10 03:22:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"The apartment is in a clean and respectful "

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 03:39:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Here, have another presumably-racist presumably-Chinese presumably-landlord:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/roo/2842695904.html

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 03:44:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"My dog is 12lbs and likes cats."

I choose to interpret that as "... for dinner."

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 03:45:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

mrow :(

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 10 04:07:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I wonder how much it's worth me getting a k-bedroom place and looking
for (k-1) folks via Craigslist, waiting out social connections, etc.
I'm getting the feeling that there aren't enough k=1 places where I
want to be in the Peninsula, or enough k=3 or 4 places where my
current group wants to be in SF (there are fairly tight location
constraints in both places).

Although maybe that's just indicative of not enough places at all.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 04:45:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Vaguely tempted to try keeping up with 6.824 in Scala or something.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Fri Feb 10 06:30:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"So, when do we get xsplice?"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Feb 10 06:56:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Cool, the Eolas patent got ruled invalid in court.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 07:56:39 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

is Scala actually usable as a systems programming language?

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 07:56:57 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I'm adding 6.824 today.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 13:07:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I have no idea, but it's basically just a matter of getting FUSE
bindings at which point you care more about threads, lock primitives,
etc., right? (And you can bypass FUSE bindings by just implementing
your favorite network filesystem protocol, which... isn't that bad)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 13:08:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

FSVO "isn't that bad"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 13:13:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Chiswick Road. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

sorry, that was a real suggestion:
alarm with a CAPTCHA (these things exist)

Class: geofft Instance: 6.824
Time: Fri Feb 10 13:17:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Compared to the quality of _some_ languages' FUSE bindings
*coughpythoncough*, it's better

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:25:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

What is "kombucha"?

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:25:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Horrible fungus drink.

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:25:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

you don't want it

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:25:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

fermented tea

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:25:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

it's really weird

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

s/weird/gross/

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

==everyone

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have literally no idea why it's become so popular that Whole Foods
has it on tap.

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It's like drinking vinegar with stuff floating in it.

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or at least does at the Union Sq location here in New York)

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:37 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Tastes like vinegar with a bit of tea.  Strained it can be fine.  With
fluffy motes of fungus that start crawling in your mouth... well, not
for me.

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... I think the one I had was strained

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:26:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

because I don't remember that

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:27:49 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

If you want mushroom tea, stick to pu-erh.

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:27:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==brians

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 14:31:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

i,i
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2009/09/03/and_the_most_liberal_product_in_america_is.html

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:23:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I didn't actually determine anything about it, but yeah, the Whole
Foods on Haight has it on tap too. I think I also saw a shelf full of
it the other day there, and a bunch of it at some other strange place
(the airport?).

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Eating while driving is hard.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

!!! BAD GEOFFT

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:21 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

==

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"How does it compare to zephyring while eating while driving?"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

Eating while driving while zephyring is harder.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

FFfffff.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:31:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I didn't try zephyring, but changing the radio channel with the hand
you're not eating with is even harder

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:32:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

i,i drive with your knee

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:32:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

(Fortunately this car has steering wheel controls, so it doesn't
actually involve taking both hands off the wheel)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:32:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm kind of glad the road you're on is several thousand miles away
from the roads I'll be walking home on.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:32:41 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Eating while driving while zephyring is harder.

meh, try debugging a fileserver at 65mph sometime

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:32:55 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You people. You scare me.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:34:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, is this driving/eating in the past now, or are you using Siri
to zephyr us, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:34:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

No, I just finished this driving/eating.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:34:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I sincerely hope-yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:34:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I don't _think_ I have actually managed to zephyr while driving.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:34:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Oh, speaking of driving, which way does priority at a 4-way stop go?
Clockwise or counterclockwise?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:35:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Car on the right wins

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:35:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In reality, nobody knows this and it's a big game of chicken

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:37:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(I don't _think_ it's state-specific.  Certainly in MA and RI, if 2
cars arrive at the same time, the one on the right goes first.  If 4
cars arrive at the same time... I have no idea.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:37:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

4 cars never arrive at the same time.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:38:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"And if a bicyclist and car arrive at the same time, it doesn't
matter, because the bicyclist never stops."

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:38:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

"nobody knows this"?  
I learned that when I was in driver's ed at 15.
Then again, this wasn't the Northeast....

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:39:20 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: @<There are tabloid stories. There are people, still, who see him at gas stations and truck stops. (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

The question is, does anyone actually remember anything they learned
in driver's ed?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:39:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I took like maybe 4 hours of driver's ed in my life

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:39:27 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==xavid

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:39:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I think the conclusion was that I shouldn't smoke weed, but maybe I'm
confusing it with DARE

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:39:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"DARE to keep your kids out of 4-way stop intersections"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:40:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"It's my FUTURE! I want to be an engineer... parallel parking can wait!"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:40:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:42:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've parallel parked exactly once in my life since passing the road
test...and I think I failed parallel parking on that (in NJ, you get
to fail any one part and still pass)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:44:06 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

on my current street i get to back down something a narrow lane wide
given the parking beside it, then parallel park. at my last house it
was one way so i left-side parallel parked. at my apartment i parked
on the street usually, so denser urban parallel parking.

i'm decent at it.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:44:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

In CA they didn't make me parallel park. I've had to do it a few times,
and not been too screwed.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:44:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I've, like, parallel parked at least three times this week, I think

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:45:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I have to parallel park in the city pretty regularly.

Also, geofft, you know there's a handsfree law in CA, right?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:47:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Is that "you must use a handsfree device when calling" or "you must
have your hands free"? I'm good on the first

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:47:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

There was no parallel parking on the RI test.  YOu just have to pull
up to the curb and not hit it.  When my Mom took the RI driving test
55 years ago, she had to parallel park on a very steep hill

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:47:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The former

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:48:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I regularly see cop cars pulling people over. I've also sped past cop
cars with radar guns out on multiple occasions, so my theory is that
you have to either be going 90+ or talking on your cell phone to get
pulled over at all here

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:49:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Yeah, I've definitely been going over 65 and also going slower than
everyone else on the 101 and been confused why nobody seems to care

Class: geofft Instance: status Opcode: icp
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:53:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

MS Windows, how does it work?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:54:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It doesn't"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:54:47 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It pretends to, though

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 15:55:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Y'all MSDN lying, and getting me pissed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:13:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Yayyyyyy guy who knows Windows development showed up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:30:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

also it's amazing how much I feel unproductive and flaily without
modern comforts like bash and git

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:31:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

cygwin

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:31:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:28:41 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Where are you working, Geoff?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:31:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Alternatively, I'm told powershell is the coolest thing since
fork/exec. You could learn that

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:31:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I tried powershell and found it _weird_. But yeah, I already
threatened to install Cygwin a bit ago.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:32:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

MokaFive, twenty feet from broder

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:30:21 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

Oh, sweet.  I hadn't heard about them before... just wikipedia'd it
though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:33:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, uh, last time I checked our wikipedia article was about 3 years
out of date...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:35:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

It's longer than Ksplice's, which is something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:35:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"As of roughly 19:12 pm (GMT) on 5 April 2008 the MokaFive website
changed dramatically."

Man, encyclopedic content right there.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:36:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It might be encyclopedic content if they actually connected it with our
rebranding efforts, which I suspect is what actually happened on April
5, 2008

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:37:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(I don't actually know the timeline, but that would be about right for
when we switched from moka5 -> MokaFive and changed our color scheme
from orange/green to blue/green)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:37:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I don't see how that makes them stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:37:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 16:40:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"As of 22 June 2009, there are two MokaFive products:[11]
MokaFive Suite
MokaFive Service
"

Uh, yeah. Not so much

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:15:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Apparently I secretly had windbg working already, I just didn't know
how to use it. Woo.

Also apparently there's a moral equivalent of strace for Windows. I'm
not sure if knowing this is a good thing. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:41:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Procmon (~moral equivalent of strace on windows) is absolutely
invaluable.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:42:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking)
> cygwin 

Now you have *two* problems.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:44:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's even more useful because Windows has an absolutely bizarre concept
of where the kernelspace/userspace barrier should live

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:44:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is this with regards to things like the registry and such being kernel
objects?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:44:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:44:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But also there are things like SetDisplayConfig, which is basically a
single system call that translates into the kernel going and making a
bunch of registry changes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:44:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, it allows for a uniform security model and all, but yeah,
pretty weird.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 17:45:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, that particular one is because all of GDI got moved into the
kernel in NT4, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.bad-party-themes.prnf
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:42:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"Burritos and Monads"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:48:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

ugh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:48:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

windows, y u not linux

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:49:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"or 4.3BSD, that'd be acceptable too, I stand a chance of
understanding that"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:49:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That was about as far as I got the last time I tried to use a windows
box as my work machine.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:50:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, wait, that's not true. I got as far as having used procmon to
figure out that Microsoft Installer was silently not working because
my homedir was encrypted, MSI uses a service to do the actual work,
and the MSI service didn't have the necessary bits to access it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:51:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Oh, so it's just like AFS"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:51:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Only worse"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:55:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

_I_ don't want to use a Windows box as my work machine! Apparently
our customers do though

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 18:55:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"Can we just convince our customers to use Ubuntu with AFS homedirs?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:02:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Augh, also my F8 finger isn't fast enough

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:03:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think you can adjust the timeout with bcdcfg or something awful
like that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:04:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

bcdedit, that was it.

Class: geofft Instance: press-start-to-shut-down
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:28:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Why is my kernel in NtShutdownSystem when it boots ...?

Class: geofft Instance: press-start-to-shut-down
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:28:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go source-diving and-oh.

Class: geofft Instance: press-start-to-shut-down
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:29:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Go assembly-diving

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 10 19:50:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Insert more whining here

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 20:28:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Okay, what is it with you people and toasters

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 20:29:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Apparently writing toaster drivers and USB toaster drivers isn't
enough, now you have an actual network driver that connects to the
toaster bus?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:47:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Ugh. I think that was a 1h15 round trip to downtown Palo Alto to get
food (and call my parents, but that wasn't that long)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:48:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I'm pretty sure I could have biked there and back faster.
Alternatively, gotten to SF and back (although admittedly not at this
hour)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:49:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Rays aren't boomerangs, of course, but still...
 <rnjacobs>

"Welcome to Carland, where the car is the victim of its own success."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:49:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Welcome to California"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:50:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:50:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"and this gyro isn't even that great"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Is it precessing too much?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:56:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:56:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

booooo

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:57:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

... a toaster bus is a _real thing_, not just the Microspeak
equivalent of "foo" or something?

Class: geofft Instance: :D
Time: Fri Feb 10 21:57:58 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

Nice tagline. I approve :)

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:00:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Where are you getting that from?

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:00:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

WDK docs. I could believe it's a sample bus included in the WDK

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:08:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Yeah, src\general\toaster looks relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: msdn
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:08:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/windowshardware/Toaster-Exe-Samples-d1dad0c6

Class: geofft Instance: dbus
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:46:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Huh, didn't realize D-Bus supported sending fds over the bus, is this new?

Class: geofft Instance: dbus
Time: Fri Feb 10 22:46:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ISTR that being a big deal when it came out

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:20:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I should get a brass rat, maybe...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:21:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

The generic one is tempting.
https://collegerings.herffjones.com/?event=processSchoolForm&SchoolName=MIT

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:21:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

But stupidly expensive.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:21:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Wait, is that legit?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:21:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I didn't know there was a generic

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:22:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

offered by a company other than Balfour

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:22:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

It's sold by the Coop.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:22:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

http://alum.mit.edu/benefits/BrassRat

"The MIT Coop sells genuine Brass Rats that show the class year, but
the overall design is generic and would not match the design
originally chosen by a particular class."

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:23:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I guess I could ask Balfour if they sell generic-design ones.
Alternatively, \exists Grad Rat.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:25:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Fascinating.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:25:40 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Community considered harmful <aatharuv>

You can buy your year brass rats later on. However, it gets more expensive
later on.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:25:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"but the point is that I don't want my year's brass rat"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:26:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Grad Rat. That generic is ugly.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:26:56 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: The Fourth of Quintilis <aatharuv>

Oh.... (I'm probably not subbed to any of the elses.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:28:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

People are annoyed at the 20NN design, that's all

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:28:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

(I forget what we're up to. 2014?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:29:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I think the generic design is actually the same design as the
early-20th-century one, which makes it cooler but no less ugly.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:30:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Hm, not quite

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:33:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

http://twentyeleven.mit.edu/ring/images/Brass_Rat_Advertisment_1933.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/1930MITRingBezel.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:34:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

It does appear to be this one:
http://brassrat.askmisterscience.com/86rat.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: dbus
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:49:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Library support is still spotty. Qt can't do it until 4.8, for instance

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:51:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait...why don't you want your class's brass rat? It was not
particularly controversial (unless you consider not putting a woman on
the seal controversial), and has Fluffy on it

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:52:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"I wasn't paying enough attention to the controversy to determine
that it wasn't controversial"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:52:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"also, it sounds like acknowledging that class councils exist"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Feb 10 23:52:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Only indirectly

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 00:14:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

-> home
(for some value of "home")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 01:08:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

San Francisco: receive a free roller coaster ride with your car rental!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 01:09:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

seriously do bicycles here secretly have helicopters or something?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 01:09:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

no. it just sucks

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 01:09:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I once biked in San Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 11 01:09:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I got lost.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 11 05:03:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Not being logged in is _weird_, I have no idea what these people in
the default subreddits are talking about but I clearly missed something

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 11 05:49:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

This thread is actually pretty amusing:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/60d2u/what_is_your_favorite_programming_music/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 11 05:52:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

More seriously, there are a lot of Mogwai recommendations. I don't
know anything about them other than "that band Jeph Jacques likes". I
could fix that...

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:18:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Ugh, why are you people forwarding this crap to the TCC mailing list

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:19:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Shouldn't you be reading Summa Theologica or something?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:24:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

That said, I would give money to a competent non-right-wing
well-organized religious bloc

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:24:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

None of those exist.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:24:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

A bloc of what?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:25:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"of people"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:26:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I dunno, I just want someone to loudly go "guys, human life is
important because Jeeeesus said so, we need universal health care now"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:27:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

"I'm anti-war because when Jesus said 'Thou shalt not kill', he was
talking about brown people in foreign countries too"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:28:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

There are some folks on Reddit wo identify as Christian Anarchists
for that reason, which is a fascinating political position. It
basically is like "what part of 'turn the other cheek' don't you
understand"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:28:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I'm apparently supposed to read this thing by Tolstoy.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:28:56 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The Catholic Church does actually oppose most modern wars, I think.
Maybe not as loudly as it could.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:30:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Are abortion and gay marriage inherently major cultural points of
contention, or are they only such because the Church has decided to
contend over those a lot?

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:31:08 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:32:42 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Well, the Catholic Church also says it opposes the death penalty, for
example.  But given the choice between a candidate that likes abortion
and one that likes the death penalty, I've only ever heard of American
bishops trying to deny communion to the former.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:34:02 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think you can oppose legal abortion for non-religious reasons,
although I'm not sure how many people do.  I think lots of people
oppose SSM for visceral, non-religious reasons (the same reasons that
lead people to hate people with different skin colors) and then fish
around for whatever reason they can find to support that, which is
usually religion.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:34:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Like, in the '60s, segregation / rights for colored people was a big
issue, but it was specific types of conservatism and not a religious
organization on one side. But abortion and gay marriage are currently
in the news and courts because of Rome and the Mormons, respectively.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:34:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

(Well, Rome too for the latter, but Prop 8 was pretty Mormon-funded,
as I understand it)

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:35:26 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

In MA the opposition to SSM came mostly from Catholic groups, as I
interpreted the news.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:36:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

But without the Church, would there still be significant elements of
conservatism opposing these the way they opposed desegregation?

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:37:38 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The GOP openly opposes SSM.  They're pretty overtly religious these
days so it's hard to draw a line.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:38:16 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

My impression was that American Protestants were traditionally
actually somewhat anti-anti-abortion, because they saw the
anti-abortion movement as unwelcome Popish influence in politics, at
least until it was politically convenient for conservatives to turn
abortion into an issue.

Class: geofft Instance: politics.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 15:39:10 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I was reading something yesterday, sadly don't recall the source, that
claimed that in the 1970s the Southern Baptist Convention was actually
in favor of liberalizing abortion laws in some cases.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 17:09:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Sigh, I strongly suspect I want to live with other people I know (or
who are reasonable people I'd want to know)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 17:16:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

what about that huge house with broder?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 17:32:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Pretty sure they don't have openings?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 17:54:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I'm not actually convinced that a non-sketchy used car on Craigslist
is sufficiently cheaper than a new car to justify it

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:00:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

anecdata:
When I moved to CA I bought an ex-rental car from a rental agency's
outlet.  I got a one-year-old car (so it was pretty new but had the
driven-off-the-lot depreciation already) without the sketchiness of
dealing with individuals on Craigslist or the sliminess of used-car
dealers.  

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:05:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Well, I guess you could just commit to living at 3708 Mission with
me, and then I will be relaxed and happy and you will have people and
a home.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:05:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"let me see it tomorrow"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:06:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

But yeah, that sounds sane.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:08:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

That sounds like the right answer. What are these outlets?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:08:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

I think I was planning to investigate "certified pre-owned" cars,
which sound less slimy than used cars

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:08:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Also, ttants: kbb, kkb

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:12:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

CPO is basically used + warranty.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:17:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Given that I plan to drive like 75 miles a day, I assume that
optimizing for more expensive cars with better MPG is sane?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:17:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

The math should be easy enough.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:19:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: the books are your friends.  everything they say is true. <kcr>

(and ugh, that's a longish commute)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:19:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

You're living in SF proper?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:20:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

That looks like where I'm likely to find reasonable people to live
with, which seems like a higher priority than being close to work

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:21:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

kcr: The commute's more like 25 miles each way, I'm just factoring in
for things like going random places after work or getting lunch

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:21:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

> What are these outlets?

Basically, the major rental agencies always want to rent out the
latest-model cars.  So they're always buying new cars and trying to
get rid of cars that are 1-2 years old.  They have branches that sell
off these cars--essentially like used-car lots, except with much less
pressure since it's not their "main" business, and the cars have been
professionally maintained and serviced.  
I got mine from http://www.hertzcarsales.com/ , which has a moderately
annoying website, but has outlets in South SF and Santa Clara.
If you're looking for a *cheap* used car, it's probably not for you,
but if you're looking for "one step away from new", at least give them
a look
(I imagine other rental agencies have similar things you can
investigate)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:21:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

That looks quite reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 11 18:29:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

Man, when I'm done with this I should write a "How to move to
California" blog post

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 20:37:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I have unleashed a monster. (re: price's vision of a grand, non-cheap
house)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 22:06:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

You should work for a funded startup :-P

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sat Feb 11 22:11:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

arghhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 22:29:16 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What, the 27th and Church place?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 11 22:30:08 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It has at least one cheap room.  I could imagine doing something like
putting one desk (i.e. your desk) in the living room, which becomes
part of the deal with the small room and makes it less small.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Sun Feb 12 00:22:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"There are only one thousand YouTube results for 'drunk puppies.'"
"That... gives me a little more faith in humanity, actually"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Feb 12 00:26:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

... starnine got deactivated? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Sun Feb 12 00:50:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

"Lastly, certain reviews criticized the new breast physics, causing
them to bounce independently when running or moving and continue to
jiggle or swing even when the character is still, resulting in
awkward sequences."

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 01:23:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] Wait, are price and asheesh moving in together?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 03:35:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: My Little Ksplice: Uptime is Magic <geofft>

price and asheesh and I are all currently looking for housing,
possibly together. (We tried to get something a couple days ago with
a fourth person Asheesh knows or something, but someone else got to
applying for the apartment before us)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 05:00:55 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> fourth person Asheesh knows

Someone someone he knows knows, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 05:01:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

On my side, this housing alliance actually came as a fortuitous result of
a mix.  Glad you got Asheesh on zephyr!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 05:08:44 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Or whoever did.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 12 13:58:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Lost subs since 1942; please declare war on Germany

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 12 14:08:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 12 14:13:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

...it's 70 years later and you still haven't gotten them refloated?
This looks like a job for Aquaman.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:09:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... did docs.google.com just authenticate me through
accounts.youtube.com?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:13:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

mumble mumble grand unified accounts mumble

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:14:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: measuring inexactness of the mitochondrial respiratory chain complex since the 1960s <ageng>

It seems that when you're logged in to Google, Google wants to make
sure you get logged into Youtube too. And possibly vice versa.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:15:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, and because of same-origin, that doesn't happen unless something
gets posted to that domain first, and youtube.google.com sucks as URL

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:15:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I guess the set of videos you watch is high-value data.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 12 19:16:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(to advertisers)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:14:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i "this is too small to be a living room, it's a stasis room"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:18:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I'd like the doc to have less clutter but I'm not quite sure how to do
that. Also, I'm still enthusiastic about landing the place we saw
today, even if it's not totally perfect.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:20:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-c geofft, if y'all know people who are looking for housing /
housemates in SF (or in the Peninsula, honestly), let me know.

Or trying to get out of a house/apartment.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:23:10 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I have two friends who might have some interest: one is a Googler who
just moved to SF named Nick, and the other's name is Dima who is a
Caltech physics alum who graduated in 2008. I'm happy to put you in
touch with either.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:23:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Heck yeah!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:23:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh. Those sound useful to be in touch with, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

The other thing is the 5BR at 26th & Bryant is interesting to me
still, even with smallish rooms, so long as we have a fairly
consistent house culture among the five people. One very spacious
living room could be excellent if it feels truly common and we all
e.g. like hacking and free software and so forth.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:26:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, is this the one we punted last Wednesday?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:26:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yup, that's the one. Waffle-powered Asheesh.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:26:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>



Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:27:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<rms>Join us now and share the living room, you'll be free, hackers,
you'll be free</rms>

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:32:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Anything else I can answer?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:32:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is there no "add printer" button in the print dialog?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:33:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I do think we should step up our game and start submitting
applications to things, even if they're not our favorite things
necessarily. We can do that with the new place at 25th & Capp (did you
see that on the Google Doc?) if we like.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:39:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm interested this summer and fall. Preferably in Palo Alto, though...

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:39:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmm. That would be more useful if I knew someone who'd stop being
interested by summer, since I assume I'm only going to find one-year
things

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 20:42:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Also keep in mind we need enough bodies willing to do a lease-signing.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.kwality
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:13:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Remember, don't login unless you see http://t.co/cGe1Yyie in the
address bar! Otherwise you might be getting phished."

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.kwality
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:14:34 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"<3" twitter

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.kwality
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:15:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha, where was this?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.kwality
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:15:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

@safety

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.kwality
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:15:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In BarnOwl, of course.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:27:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/188/786/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-brony-poor-twilight.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else.o_O
Time: Sun Feb 12 21:39:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gluster _removed_ its contributor licensing agreement after being
acquired by RH?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sun Feb 12 22:56:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Who wants to be a personal reference?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Feb 12 23:22:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I get an obama instance?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Feb 12 23:23:11 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is the most handsome sphere. <asedeno>

Yes we can!

Class: geofft Instance: mass
Time: Sun Feb 12 23:57:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.consubstantial.net/

Class: geofft Instance: mass
Time: Sun Feb 12 23:59:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I ... kind of want a "Dude! That is consubstantial" sticker for my
laptop

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Feb 13 03:15:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dubstep (wubwubwubkkksh)
Dove soap (scrubscrubscrubwash)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Feb 13 03:13:23 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

Scrubstep

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 13 03:17:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*** stack smashing detected ***: kvm terminated

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 04:30:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo! Finally p2v'd my Windows partition

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 11:28:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Nice. Curious what tools you used.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 13 11:29:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Not my fault!

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:17:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just meegeide.reg and "oops, right, I bet more than 128M RAM would be
a good idea"

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:18:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

meegeide.reg?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:24:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Any problems with Activation?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:42:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*mergeide.reg

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:43:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i.e., copy and paste the registry snippet from
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314082
into a file, boot the physical hardware, merge it into the registry,
reboot into Linux and boot the virtual hardware

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:43:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No activation problems, surprisingly. More surprisingly, Net Nanny
now seems to be disabled, at least on the qemu rtl8139 interface. I
clearly don't understand enough about how Net Nanny interacts with the
Windows driver model

Class: geofft Instance: #xcb
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:45:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't understand how X isn't... done yet

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:50:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

GNOME 3.2 seems to have done the Canonical thing of combining my
logout/suspend menu and my IM status menu. In particular, they also
seem to have cloned the IM status menu having no functionality

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:51:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, which menu are you calling the IM status menu?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:51:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Err, on Unity, not gnomesh

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:52:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The one that les me be available or unavailable

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:52:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is that the envelope ("messages") menu or the person ("me") menu?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:54:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think the latter?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:54:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ok, that's what I thought I remembered. They moved it to the messages
menu in 11.10

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:54:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"once I get to work I'll click on Unity's menus and remind myself
what they do"

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Mon Feb 13 12:54:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sounds plausible.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Mon Feb 13 13:15:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo, credit limit increased to $2500

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Mon Feb 13 13:29:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, I should definitely be in town for the xprod concert. I
wonder if I want to visit before then... seems doubtful.

Class: geofft Instance: weather
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:04:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Well, at least it's not Boston"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:20:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Qt wants to desupport LD_PRELOAD because its performance impact sucks?
nooooooooo

http://www.macieira.org/blog/2012/01/sorry-state-of-dynamic-libraries-on-linux/
http://www.macieira.org/blog/2012/01/update-and-benchmark-on-the-dynamic-library-proposals/

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:20:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(It turns out that's not actually what they're doing)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:21:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Holy shit did you actually look at the new signal/slot syntax, though?!?!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:22:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... no?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:22:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Haven't made it to the article yet, but apparently you can connect
signals to normal functions instead of just QObject subclass methods in
Qt 5.0!)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:22:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think I was much aware of the old one

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:22:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also you don't need to use the silly SLOT() and SIGNAL() macros

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:23:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Whoa! And you can put lambdas in as the recipient of your signal!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:23:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:23:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooooooooh

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:24:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Sooooo cool

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:24:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Having to create custom QObject classes just to receive signals was one
of my bigger outstanding annoyances with Qt

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:24:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Not that I found it particularly annoying, I just generally don't have
problems with Qt)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:25:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, hmm...

> There is no automatic disconnection when the receiver is destroyed

That sucks

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:27:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Looks like they're basically doing what Gtk already does, though

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:27:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Gtk functions refer to each other internally using a IA__ prefix due
to link-time magic)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:28:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This paper has the bestest diagrams
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/papers/setuid-usenix02.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:29:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, that's what that prefix is for.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:29:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yep. It means that you can't use LD_PRELOAD to interfere with calls
between Gtk functions, only external calls into Gtk

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:30:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which is basically what Thiago's proposing, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: fedex
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:52:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wooo, my life just arrived in town in boxes

Class: geofft Instance: fedex
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:53:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"but where are you going to put it?"

Class: geofft Instance: fedex
Time: Mon Feb 13 15:55:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Good question! They'll hold it for five days, and I'm currently
filling out a rental app so it sounds like this might work

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:15:05 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Awesome.

"FSAs are useful in verifying the accuracy of manual pages of
uid-setting system calls. For each call, if its FSA is small and its
description in manual pages is simple, we check if each transition in
the FSA agrees with the description by hand. Otherwise, we build another
FSA based on the description and compare this FSA to the original FSA
built by simulation."

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:16:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

wow, that paper looks awesome

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:17:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

and holy shit the setresuid diagram makes me want to run screaming

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:17:27 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:18:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:20:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes exactly

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Feb 13 16:24:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

re: paper: You know it's good because it's David Wagner.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Mon Feb 13 17:02:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Can I show up at the Stripe office with a credit card?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Feb 13 17:27:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ugh, windows

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Feb 13 17:27:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Just in case I haven't said it enough"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:33:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Time to getting annoyed and installing xmonad: one week

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:33:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

You outlasted me by about.... a week minus 3 hours.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:34:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There is some amount of irony in my doing so primarily because I
wanted to full-screen my VM, given that full-screen Windows VMs is
kind of our product (and we don't use xmonad to do that)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:35:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, I can now hit the Win key and not have Unity get excited
about it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:56:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, Intel syntax

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 18:58:57 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Ugh, AT&T syntax :p

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:22:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seriously, Shotwell has an "enhance" button?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:22:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

oblig http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:24:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahahaha, it has no options, you just click it and it makes the image
more readable

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:24:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(by fixing the white balance)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:24:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Zoom and ... enhance.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:24:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sadly, it is idempotent.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:24:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

that is hilarious

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:25:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

geofft: White balance and not, say, contrast?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:25:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

(Lightroom has an 'Auto Tone' feature that does something similar.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:25:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Er, yeah, that too, but I thought I saw it change the white point

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:25:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Yeah, in LR at least it tweaks a bunch of parameters at once.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:32:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the Prisoner's Thelema

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:35:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, Windows NT is actually kind of ancient, so sample drivers
last touched in 1996 should confuse me only as little as Linux
drivers last touched in 1996

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:36:38 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Are they more or less braindead than ftape?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:37:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This one is for a Super Floppy. I forgot what that even is.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:38:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that fortune cookies are food for thought.
 <rnjacobs>

... were super floppies LS120s?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:39:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*source dives* Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:39:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, USB support! I forgot how old USB was, too.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:41:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or "Floptical", I guess that's a word I'd forgotten about too.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

I remember those!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:43:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I...have never seen one of those

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:43:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyone in the Bay Area have a color scanner I can use? Unless I'm
confused, our office's is black-and-white

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:44:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Or have a recommendation for a SIPB-like place of office supplies
and wonder?)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:45:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Star Thru & Spread <kchen>

Huh, I didn't know there were such things as black and white scanners,
other than maybe fax machines.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:45:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's a combo device

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:45:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can try pushing more buttons on it, but I assume it's primarily
intended to fax.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:46:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A stegosaurus, escaped from the stegosaurusfindsrobot game.  It finds you.
 <rnjacobs>

I have an internal LS120 drive, and 5 disks, sitting in a box, 'cuz I don't
know what else to do with it.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:50:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

You could go to a Kinko's store etc., or to Noisebridge, or TechShop
in Mountain View.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:50:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

TechShop is a cool place.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:53:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rnjacobs: Well, I can give you a Windows driver for it!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:53:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(where by "I" I mean "the DDK")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:54:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They are users, nothing more. @i{And they will be used}. - /.
 <rnjacobs>

"It's just an ATAPI device, it's equally useless as a 120MB HDD in linux"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:55:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like I would expect Kinko's to charge me like $5.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:55:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, sadly. My laptop webcam did the trick though!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 13 19:58:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mine apparently sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 20:01:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait wat you can only use certain printf-style format codes if you're
running in an interrupt context?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 20:01:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(in DbgPrint)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 20:03:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, why does TortoiseSVN (or plink, one of the two) redact your
_username_ in addition to your password???

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:34:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I suck at pressing F8 quickly enough

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:35:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there's a knob to increase how long it waits for me to do that

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:35:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think you tweak it with bcdedit?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:36:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm curious how I learned msconfig over bcdedit. Win98 heritage
sounds unlikely.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:39:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:39:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay I clicked something and now the start menu is hanging as it
hex-dumps some XML over the serial debugger

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:41:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Am I the only one sketched by the amount of XML the kernel is
evidently parsing?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:42:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Dude, you're using Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:42:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Being sketched out goes with the territory.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:43:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo! Finally printk'd Hello world. Okay, now on to useful things

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:43:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

Do we know anyone who actually like writing code for windows?

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:44:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LPTCBBQ_WINNT_STATUS_NO

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Mon Feb 13 21:44:49 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I employ people who don't mind it, but it's hard to say
they like it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:01:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I should find a choir

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:08:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, isn't Bethany a member?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:08:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

yes, I fscked up, sending correction

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:08:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ecprice is active? "Have I met him?"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:08:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I realize I missed the membership election"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:09:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ecprice totally came to a meeting like two weeks ago. I asked him
about his even faster Fourier transform than the fastest Fourier
transform in the west

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:10:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

yeah, ecprice came to a meeting.  Right before it started I told him
"you know this'll make you active, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:15:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I clearly need more food if I'm supposed to figure this out without a
headache

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:19:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hm, there are things Windows does that it seems like it might be good
for Linux to do. I wonder why Linux doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:19:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Infringement of some form would be the obvious answer.)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:20:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The one thing I _don't_ understand is identically-named userspace and
kernelspace functions

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:21:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It seems like Windows tends to pretend the distinction doesn't exist
as far as it can get away with it?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:22:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Partly that and partly that windows kernel space is not for
mortals.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:23:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

There is definitely stuff that Linux should do, like io
completion ports. I suspect it is lack of motivation for
anyone on the linux side more often than it is patents.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:23:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But... like, so, there's NtFoo and ZwFoo depending on whether your
arguments need to be copied from userspace (which Linux sometimes
does with sys_foo vs. do_foo, but inconsistently). The docs imply
that you can call _either_ from userspace, and the libc will get you a
system call to the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:24:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If kernelspace isn't for mortals, why should userspace ape
kernelspace's namespace / naming conventions?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:25:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

At this point I've exceeded my knowledge and fall back to
mumbled generic arguments like "because VMS did it that way
probably" or "because windows does actually kind of suck."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:25:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ZwFoo is the "NT native API" you're not actually supposed to call
yourself, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:25:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Mumble subsystems mumble.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:26:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you're passing kernelspace pointers, you call the Zw version

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:26:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff565438%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:27:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Hm. I think it is intended to be possible to write code that can run
in either user- or kernel-space.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:27:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whyyyy.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:27:52 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Oh yeah, possibly the other vaccuous microsoft answer: back
compatibility.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:28:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

If that code runs in kernelspace, it needs to use either Zw or Nt as
appropriate. But in order for that code to be able to recompile and
run as userspace code, Zw* is aliased to Nt* in libwinuserspace

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:28:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ass backwards compatibility?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:28:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I wonder if this has anything to do with the whole "NT used to be a
microkernel of sorts" thing.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:28:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't possibly imagine why you'd want to do that and also access
the API. (Linking, like, your favorite XML parsing library or
whatever is sane, but XML APIs don't need to make system calls)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:28:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I believe it is possible to write a far larger range of
device-driver-type things in userspace in Windows than in Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:29:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Though ZwCreateFile was only introduced in Windows 2000 it
appears, so there isn't much history there.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:29:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

e.g. when I was at VMware, we had a socket family (SO_mumble)
implemented in userspace in for Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:29:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tibbetts: I could buy that the Nt/Zw rule predates that, and
everything later has to follow that rule.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:30:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

At a guess, it may be possible to write such a piece of code in a way
that it can either run in userspace or in kernelspace, depending on
whether you need performance or stability/ease-of-development or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:30:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Keep in mind that I'm guessing pretty wildly here, but if you chant
"backwards compatibility" enough times, it's almost a reasonable story.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:31:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2009/06/03/9687937.aspx is
informative, but not actually helpful.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:31:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I'm sure there's a good reason we have a typedef void VOID.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:32:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

The kernel also has, IIRC, Xxx, Yyy, and Zzz prefixes, or something
like that.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:32:38 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Looking for consistency is also a recipe for insanity on
windows. A coworker knows the guy who was singlehandedly
responsible for nearly all of the additional features in
the cmd/bat-file pseudo-shell-script, especially the ones
around variable substitution and control flow. The guy
happened to be the only one at Microsoft who cared, had
moderately crappy judgement, and there you have the modern
cmd syntax.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:34:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:-( :-( :-(

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:37:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> BTW, if you are wondering about the "Nt" prefix, the difference
> between Zw and Nt in kernel mode is that the Zw prefix functions set
> the previous mode to kernel mode, while the Nt prefix functions leave
> it unchanged. The previous mode is used in parameter validation to
> determine if the function is called from user mode or kernel mode.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:37:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:38:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=257

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:38:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, on a bigger scale, Windows folks have this tendency to talk about
the kernel/user transition as continuing to execute the same thread,
just in kernel mode and jumping to another function (similar to
making a library call but with a different processor bit set),
whereas UNIX folks tend to treat system calls more like RPCs to the
kernel, which I think is part of the disconnect here.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:38:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Windows also does kernel -> user reverse-system-calls, IIUC.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:39:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "The game of @i(spacewar) blossoms spontaneously wherever there is a graphics display connected to a computer" - Alan Kay <eichin>

mmm vxworks

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:39:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

The kernel/user boundary is kinda regarded as an arbitrary
implementation detail, rather than as an abstraction barrier the way
it is on Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:39:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: There's always something going out of business in Central Square.--rita@eff.org <eichin>

(and Domain/os, for that matter.  the kernel
doing a getenv() from the calling process was no big deal...)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:40:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

From talking to the Solaris folks, they also have some of the same
attitude.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:41:15 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

This attitude is also why windows has N system calls for
very large N.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:41:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That sounds like it can't possibly be a good idea for security. How is
Windows not full of kernel exploits this way?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:41:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And suddenly, geofft was enlightened.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:41:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The real question is how Solaris pulls this off.)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:42:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> The kernel/user boundary is kinda regarded as an arbitrary
> implementation detail, rather than as an abstraction barrier the way
> it is on Linux.

Yes, ==, that feels so weird.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:43:01 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: one of those slackster, flannel wearing, coffeehouse misanthropes I've been reading about in Newsweek <eichin>

(vxworks, being an embedded system, just outright cheats.
still kind of fun to have a traceback that goes from a packet read,
through the tcp stack, into your ftp client, and all the way up to the CLI)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:43:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

> How is Windows not full of kernel exploits this way?
It is?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:43:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think at some point I realized "hey, Windows looks vaguely like a
UNIX, it has processes and files and a kernel and things", and then
got more confused because it isn't a UNIX.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:43:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

It's a VMS.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:43:59 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

With vestiges of DOS compatibility.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:44:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Did you notice when Tarjei discovered an *entirely new class* of
Windows ring3->ring0 exploits and published 40 of them in one advisory?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:44:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

40.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:44:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:44:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, like, when people sa "running on a user stack"... do you _actually
share the stack_?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:44:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I could answer this with windbg in about ten seconds.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:45:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

<http://www.mista.nu/research/mandt-win32k-slides.pdf> are his BH slides

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:50:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other news, I want a cmd.exe linked against readline.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:50:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I realize this makes the baby Richard Stallman cry

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:50:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i doskey

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The revolution will not be kindlized." - ctl <pbaranay>

I refuse to believe rms was ever a baby.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:51:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm imagining a very hairy baby.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:52:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Is there any good reason that cmd.exe hasn't grown a credible UI yet?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:52:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: special weapons observation remote reconnaissance direct action system (SWORDS) <eichin>

for vxworks, yes, but that's "special"
(embedded.)  don't remember for domain/os.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:53:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"Or has it, since I last used Windows?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:53:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the party line is that you should use powershell instead.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:54:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I think the party line is "but there's a gui for that".

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...win32k.sys provides *eight hundred* system calls?!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Is that all?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like Linux provides at least half that.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Linux was around 300, last I looked.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Ok, 350

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:55:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It would be awesome if Linux grew a CreateProcess() type thing.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:56:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

And it's not like we don't have a *stupid* number of ioctl()s and
procfs and sysfs nodes.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:56:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

i,i posix_spawn

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 13 22:57:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

posix_spawn is implemented as vforx() && execve. It's "okay".

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:07:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, what

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:08:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did you just come here, ask how initscripts work, get told about
upstart, then decide based on that that your project was doomed to
fail and you should find another job?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:08:35 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Hahahahas

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:09:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:09:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, just got to how Windows implements multiarch. Ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:12:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:13:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's WoWtastic!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:13:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Misread: wubtastic. "Oh great, dubstep dlls."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:14:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's probably that too.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:14:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For bonus points, his nick is MrBusiness

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:15:24 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The logs only go to 00:03 right now so I can't see the good part.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:15:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

lol re: dubstep dlls

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:16:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

freenode / #ubuntu-devel / MrBusiness  00:05  (MrBusiness!~MrBusines@7
    mfisch, a nice idea, but unfortunately beyond my power to enact
    at this point
freenode / #ubuntu-devel / MrBusiness  00:05  (MrBusiness!~MrBusines@7
    I don't have sufficient control of the requirements. it sounds to
    me like I get to watch this thing blow up in my face. rather than
    spend anymore time on it, I think I'll just update my resume.
freenode / #ubuntu-devel / MrBusiness  00:06  (MrBusiness!~MrBusines@7
    Gotta know when to hold 'em, gotta know when to fold 'em.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:18:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:18:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

nextstep, openstep, dubstep. Obvious progression.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:18:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What was he even trying to do in the first place?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:21:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think he had a program and wanted to create a service to start it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:21:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:21:55 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The question he asked sounded like it had a relatively simple answer.
Then it sounded like there were other poorly-understood requirements
he didn't think he could meet.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:28:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"NSWUBWUBWUB"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:40:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder where my college apps are...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:40:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess they're on the desktop at home. "and therefore on tyger's
failing hard disk"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 00:41:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really, if I could just pass arguments to the kernel from the kvm
command line the way I can in Linux, that would make my day

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:54:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, I was going about 68 or 69 on the 101 (which nominally has a
speed limit of 65), and this car passes me by at least 5 mph, maybe
more like 10, and it turns out to be a San Mateo police car

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:54:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I guess it's actually totally okay not to go 65"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:55:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Lower speeds may yield better fuel economy and may reduce your risk
of death.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:57:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Thank you, GLaDOS.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:57:40 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: zephyring is not unpacking <aatharuv>

I regularly go at 75 on California freeways. I've heard of people
getting tickets at that speed, but that's rare.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 02:59:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other driving-related news, I'm considering whether I want to take
driver's ed here when I get time so that I can stop sucking at
parallel parking

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:00:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I only took a few hours in a classroom of driver's ed at home,
because I was old enough that I didn't need to and n hours driving
with my parents sufficed)

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:00:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Sharkbanana is friend to all scientists!" - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

Or you could buy a motorcycle!

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:01:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think Michael Glados-Herdeg over here would be a fan of that

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:02:50 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

I've been passive-aggressively obeying the speed limits where safe
ever since getting a ticket for driving 72 in a 60 zone.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:02:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I could buy a Smart car"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "TWO BILLS ENTER!  ONE LAW LEAVES!" - ismith <pbaranay>

That sounds more passive than passive-aggressive...

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Depends whether or not there's traffic behind you.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

California is awesome for motorcycles because lane splitting is legal.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's only passive-aggressive if you find the cop who sped past me or
any of his ilk and drive straight in front of him

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:48 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Life is more amusing without context <aatharuv>

The only time I got ticketed, I believe I was doing 90 and weaving in
and out of traffic.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:03:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Can we get a new country?  A bunch of assholes broke mine." - turzaak <pbaranay>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:04:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "in the grim darkness of the far future there is only zephyr" - kcr <pbaranay>

I can't decide if lane splitting is "awesome", but it is a nice thing
to be able to do.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:04:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, this overly clever website design is so 2011

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:04:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.smartusa.com/

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:04:53 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

Whenever a cop is behind me, I make sure to drive at _exactly_ at the
speed limit. Soon enough, the cop will change lanes and overtake you.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:04:57 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Needs a REST API.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:06:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I have 99 problems, and bitches in fact constitute several of them." - pkoms <pbaranay>

Aw, I think it's kind of cute.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:07:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've just seen websites that have done it better, and I mostly want
to do something, not admire web design

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Tue Feb 14 03:53:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I hate it when motorcycles lane split beside me because the margin of
error scares me a bit, but I can't really fault them for doing it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 14 05:39:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... why did I not go to sleep 3 hours ago

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 14 13:10:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> breakfast -> trying to rent an apartment -> work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 14:40:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, office is being social or something.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 14:40:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I usually don't mind being in cubicles when peoploe are working, but
I may try to hide from the Valentine's Day party

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 14:54:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kinda want some x86 manuals... I guess they're in down. I could just
pick up my box of books and leave my clothes and stuff

Class: geofft Instance: stoplights
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:08:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

http://bash.org/?195969

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:31:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I need headphones. Also, this inline assembly terrifies me

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:39:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, gcc, what exactly were you thinking with -I-

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:39:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-I- Split the include path.  Any directories specified with -I
    options before -I- are searched only for headers requested
    with "#include "file""; they are not searched for
    "#include <file>".  If additional directories are specified
    with -I options after the -I-, those directories are
    searched for all #include directives.

    In addition, -I- inhibits the use of the directory of the
    current file directory as the first search directory for
    "#include "file"".  This option has been deprecated.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:41:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

That's almost reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:58:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This code is actually completely terrifying

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 15:59:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I'm sure you actually mean Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:07:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I will only date someone that it is Pareto-optimal to date

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:15:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:15:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't want economic inefficiencies getting in the way of true love!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:16:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:19:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay I'm going to stop reading this code now before I get scared and
run away

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:26:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Waitwaitwait what happened to edit.com???

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:26:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How am I supposed to edit files

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:26:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"notepad"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:26:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or give up and install gvim/ntemacs)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:26:55 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"emacs"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:28:14 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I thought it’s still around (maybe as edit.exe), but maybe only on
32-bit Windows, because 64-bit Windows can’t run 16-bit programs.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:30:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Awww. OK

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:30:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should just switch to 32-bit. That would also get rid of this
driver signing crap

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:35:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat. I just got a Windows-style application crash dialog from wine

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:50:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, _what_?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_API

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:51:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's the whole "NT can have multiple subsystems and Win32 is only one
of them" thing.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:52:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, but... what... why is the entry point called DriverEntry if
it's a userspace application????

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:52:30 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that it's not over till the fat lady shouts `Off with its head'.
 <rnjacobs>

Win16s is unfortunately still around; apparently big customers of Microsoft
found it worth it to pay MS to keep it alive.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:52:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Video drivers used to live in userspace, before NT4

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:52:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(iirc)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:53:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and possibly other drivers?)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:53:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, like, Linux can have multiple "subsystems" via personalities
(you can supposedly run apps from that standard x86 UNIX ABI), but
there isn't a "generic" one. I guess that's 'cause all of Linux boots
at once

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:53:51 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

You seem surprised. HOw did you think Microsoft managed to
spend billions of dollars and countless engineers and build
something only comparably good to Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:54:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:54:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tibbetts, you are like the upside down Darl McBride

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:54:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NT actually shipped with OS/2 (1.x) and POSIX subsystems as well, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:55:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"an OS is totally easy to write, Linus Torvalds came up with it in a
year in his bedroom, of course Windows can't possibly work"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:55:23 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I don't get the reference to McBride.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:55:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

His argument was that of _course_ Linux has to have stolen code from
Unix, because Linus couldn't possibly have written an operating system
by himself in a couple of years.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:56:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And thereby missing the kernel/OS distinction, the fact that others
were working on it, and the fact that it was rather a different goal)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:56:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Oh, yeah, I totally subscribe the idea that if your
development team is too large you will necessarily produce
terrible software in order to consume the developmer
resources.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:57:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

I'd never thought about that, but it's true.  "Software expands to fill the
resources available."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 16:57:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Like everything else"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:50:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, uh, does TortoiseSVN not have a command-line utility?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:51:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

By definition, of course not.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:51:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"well that's annoying"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:51:38 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think your command-line utility is called Cygwin

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:52:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You can get the plain SVN CLI tools in a native windows build separately. I forget where I found them.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:53:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas is going bye-bye. <eichin>

pretty sure that as long as you have the matching
version, the native tools can work with tortoise checkouts (at least,
I've seen people doing that.)  Not sure if that's true of the cygwin ones.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 17:54:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You don't want cygwin.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:02:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

prnf: Does Windows have containers? (It doesn't seem to have chroot,
and there aren't huge scary warnings about "no, this won't do what you
want" in the description of opening files by path from kernelspace)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:03:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Parallels has a thing. I'm going to stop thinking about how that's
implemented now.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:03:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm assuming that Windows actually figured out how to make opening
files from kernelspace work instead of telling people not to do it

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:03:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It has ACLs on everything"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:04:25 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

You can lock down a machine in very flexible ways, but I'm
not aware of anything like chroots.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:04:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

broder: There's nothing that's really inherently broken about doing
so in Linux, you can just confuse yourself easily

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:06:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess windows does have a competent Nt/Zw distinction, and also
OBJ_KERNEL_HANDLE which causes your filehandle to get allocated in a
global kernel list of filehandles instead of a per-process one.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:07:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, like, linux/init/* calls a lot of sys_open, so it's more the case
that Linux says "you will confuse yourself" than "don't"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:07:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and when starting init, you can be convinced that you don't have to
worry about multiple filesystem namespaces)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:17:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

right, food

Class: geofft Instance: rye
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:46:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:55:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder what fraction of hairdressers will do something other than
stare blankly if I go "I want my hair cut like Skrillex"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

I can think of at least two places here that would just DTRT.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's worrisome.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Skrillex is a single person?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft: please don't do that. It won't work.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Sonny John Moore (born January 15, 1988), better known by his stage
name Skrillex, is an American electronic music producer and former
singer–songwriter."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:56:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's a terrible hairdo

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:57:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't... actually want my hair cut like Skrillex.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:57:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I just want to troll haircutting places

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:57:52 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They will troll you back harder.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:57:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

http://c438342.r42.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/skrilex.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:58:19 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

the more I look at pictures of Skrillex, the less I hate his hair.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:58:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I feel like haircutting places hold the power in the trolling
relationship. Seems like a battle you don't want to get into

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 18:58:53 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: An 80286 machine.
 <rnjacobs>

The last time I saw that er, hairstyle was in high school when a female
classmate had half her head shaved for surgery.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:00:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no idea when to say FOO *fFoo vs. PFOO fFoo

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:39:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Awww, VC++ doesn't support the C99 foo = {.bar = baz} syntax? :-(

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:39:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

g++ doesn't either

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:39:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not even with g++ -fawesome-syntax?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:40:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Not that I know of, but I am not confident.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:43:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Awwww the MS makefile tool says "don't know how to make" when you give
it a nonexistent target? That's so cute

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:49:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of these days I will stop making errors where my drivers aren't
unloadable

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:52:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, wouldn't it be useful to scan a program at compile-time for "nope,
this program doesn't use %n anywhere" and disable that feature of
printf?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:52:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or alterantively have a -DPRINTF_NO_PERCENT_N or something?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:54:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Oh hey, Windows does that by default

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:54:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Do you really need that when you have the compile-time checks to make
sure you're not passing non-fixed strings to printf?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:54:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The sudo vulnerability slipped past the compile-time check, right?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:54:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(-Wformat - that's the one)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:55:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh wow, that format specifier was a bad idea someone had.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:55:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Or more specifically, -Wformat-security)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:56:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The Windows thing is _set_printf_count_output(1))

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:56:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not sure about the most recent sudo one, but I think Ubuntu at
least wasn't affected by it because of some sort of compile-time
fortification

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:57:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Where's the patch?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:58:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

VUPEN claims they have an exploit that bypasses FORTIFY_SOURCE

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:58:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

If you compile with -D_FORITIFY_SOURCE=2 you weren't affected.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:58:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what's actually going on, but I know
Kees popped up and was rather pleased with himself because he had
concluded his hardening flags saved Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:59:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm trying to read a phrack article about this, but they started
quoting glibc code and my eyes threatened to start bleeding

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 19:59:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I have done no analysis myself, and would tend to trust Kees if he's
confident that his flags actually make it exploitable. But:
https://twitter.com/#!/VUPEN/status/165454997444767745
https://twitter.com/#!/VUPEN/status/167287144249962496

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:00:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The fulldisclosure post points to
http://www.phrack.org/issues.html?issue=67&id=9

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:00:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It is possible it is just a PITA to exploit on Ubuntu, not impossible.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:00:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If that were actually the case, I would have expected Ubuntu to pick up
the patch by now

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:01:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh wait, it's only 1.8.0, so there's nothing in the -security pocket
anywhere. Got it

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:01:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

===========================================================================
WARNING: THE REST OF THIS ARTICLE INCLUDES GLIBC CODE WHICH MAY INDUCE 
CHEST PAIN, VOMITING, BLACKOUTS, or PERMANENT LOSS OF EYESIGHT. ALL 
ATTEMPTS TO KEEP KEEP GLIBC CODE TO A MINIMUM HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE AUTHOR.
===========================================================================

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:01:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

++

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:02:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:02:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I saw that and the format string immediately below it and ran the
hell away

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:03:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh. I'm actually surprised that -Wformat didn't at least warn about
the vulnerable code - it's passing a non-static string as the format
argument of vfprintf

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:04:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

    /* Backet fmt with program name and a newline to make it a single write */
    easprintf(&fmt2, "%s: %s\n", getprogname(), fmt);
    va_start(ap, fmt);
    vfprintf(stderr, fmt2, ap);
    va_end(ap);
    efree(fmt2);

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:04:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Do we care about non-static, or non-const?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:05:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

       -Wformat-nonliteral
           If -Wformat is specified, also warn if the format string is not a
           string literal and so cannot be checked, unless the format function
           takes its format arguments as a "va_list".

       -Wformat-security
           If -Wformat is specified, also warn about uses of format functions
           that represent possible security problems.  At present, this warns
           about calls to "printf" and "scanf" functions where the format
           string is not a string literal and there are no format arguments,
           as in "printf (foo);".  This may be a security hole if the format
           string came from untrusted input and contains %n.  (This is
           currently a subset of what -Wformat-nonliteral warns about, but in
           future warnings may be added to -Wformat-security that are not
           included in -Wformat-nonliteral.)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:05:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

AIUI gcc does some terrifying compile-time analysis on string literal
format arguments

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:06:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"""
At present, this warns about calls to `printf' and `scanf'
functions where the format string is not a string literal and
there are no format arguments, as in `printf (foo);'.
"""

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:06:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

So you'd need -Wformat-nonliteral, which they presumably don't build
with.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:06:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...which doesn't do anything for the v* functions. Lame

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:06:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

tlyu was sort of asking me about this in my interview.
IIRC it sounded like gcc does scary analysis, but then goes ahead and
lets the broken behavior go by, unless you pass it some option to do
otherwise.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:06:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

kaduk: That's the difference between -Wformat-security and
-Werror=format-security

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:07:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought there was an option to actually go and produce different
code, but have low confidence in my memory.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:09:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I guess you can be sufficiently confident that printf(foo) is wrong as
to force people to work around it, where as things like vprintf(foo,
stuff) is less clear-cut

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:10:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(This was in the context of different-width numerical types, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:13:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm...different-width numerical types shouldn't matter until you hit
the stack, right?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:14:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah, there we go. I can get it if I switch to i386:

evan@warwick:~$ cat test.c
#include <stdio.h>
int main() {
    unsigned char x = 23;
    printf("%lld %lld %lld %lld %lld %lld %lld\n", x, x, x, x, x, x, x);
    return 0;
}

evan@warwick:~$ gcc -m32 -o test test.c
test.c: In function ‘main’:
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 2 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 3 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 4 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 5 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 6 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 7 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
test.c:5:5: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects argument of type ‘long long
int’, but argument 8 has type ‘int’ [-Wformat]
evan@warwick:~$ ./test
98784247831 98784247831 98784247831 -612620288126877673 98918761036
577730894391934999 -619444462879244288

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:14:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

So yes, it does what you told it

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:15:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

evan@warwick:~$ gcc -m64 -o test test.c
[warnings]
evan@warwick:~$ ./test 
23 23 23 23 23 140733193388055 23 23 23

(I had to add more %lld's to get out of register arguments on amd64)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:16:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Right.
(But of course we are told that the world is not *entirely* x86...)

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:16:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm vaguely remembering a nelhage (?) blog post about the horrors of
printf on amd64 here.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:16:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yep

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:17:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Implementing va_arg on amd64 is a nightmare.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:17:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

http://blog.nelhage.com/2010/10/amd64-and-va_arg/

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:17:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:17:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

va_list is 24 bytes, and va_arg() requires up to two branches and a
copy onto the stack.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:17:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That doesn't impact printf's implementation, though, right?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:18:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It affects the code generation for printf, but not its source, no.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:18:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the best Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_all_lists_that_do_not_contain_themselves

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:18:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It used to be an actual list!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:18:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

With an [[incomplete]] tag.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:19:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

On i386, va_arg is nice and simple:
#define va_arg(list, mode) ((mode *)(list = (char *)list + sizeof(mode)))[-1]

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:19:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

(That line is from the ABI spec)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:20:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:20:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Man, I don't think I actually read this blog post when it first went
up. Struct arguments are terrifying

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:20:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"... i386 has an ABI spec"

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:21:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

The SysV ABI spec has an i386 supplement.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:21:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

s/spec/spec?/

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:21:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

It occupies a similar space in my heart as the Intel Architecture
Software Developer's Manuals.

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:21:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Didn't we just mention that on this class two hours ago?

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:22:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"Do we look like we have that kind of attention span?"

Class: geofft Instance: hardening
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:22:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"I was in a meeting two hours ago"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:27:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

waitwaitwaitWHAT

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:27:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The MS compiler doesn't let you declare variables in the middle of a
block???

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:27:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

C or C++?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:27:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

This is not uncommon...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:27:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

C

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's a C99 thing, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought every C compiler had decided that was a dumb restriction
around '92

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

IIRC it wasn't standardized until C99

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It is a C99 thing, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... what's there to standardize about it

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:28:38 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"But why do you think MSVC would bother implementing the full
standard?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:32:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Procmon, digivolve to... Procmon64!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:41:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. You know that "just graduate and stop caring" reaction I was
talking about regarding high school? I have that exact same reaction
towards hearing about the MIT administration sucking now.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:43:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Shake the dust off your sandals on the way out.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:43:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm just surprised since I cared so much, like, two weeks ago.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:43:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Is this a good time for \ldots{}?  I think this is a good time for \ldots{}. " - turzaak <pbaranay>

Frankly I'm surprised you kept up your level of caring as long as you
did, period.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:44:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"he says, while on ND's student government"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:45:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How are they sucking now?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 20:53:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "SIPB: skulls, information processing, and bones" - ismith <pbaranay>

Touche. :P (Although I do very very little with policy. Which I'm
happy with.)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:04:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also what is this VOID and LONG business

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:04:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's wrong with void and long

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:04:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What about STATIC and INLINE?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:04:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:05:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

assassin / personal / dvp  22:04  (dvp on the command line)
    Thank you geofft, of the eofft people! You have succeeded where your
    brothers aeofft through feofft had failed!
assassin / personal / geofft  22:05  (Geoffrey Thomas)
    what
assassin / personal / dvp  22:05  (dvp on the command line)
    Sorry it's ... really tired and I'm really late.

Class: geofft Instance: adele
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:16:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I'd like her better if I couldn't hear her autotune

Class: geofft Instance: adele
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:16:23 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The answer here is to not listen to it at all.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:39:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, uh, is there a moral to the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot story
besides "you know, the world would be a better place if we'd
discovered poly around 800 AD"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:40:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: lux aeterna luceat eis <lizdenys>

"Don't forget morgaine!"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:41:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Geez guys do I need to make a remind-you-to-eat zephyrbot

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:41:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Maybe with Foursquare integration so it knows if you've eaten"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:43:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wish I knew what was happening...

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:43:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(we're in LANDLORD_WAIT now, I believe)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:46:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Agreed |:

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:47:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is our landlord even in the country?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:47:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Do you ask because the RTTs seem so high, or because it's Byron's
mysterious sister and we have never seen her?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:48:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Also maybe you should come to DNA Pizza at 8pm.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:49:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Both, really. (Although I've been really happy with the RTTs to the
leasing agent's assistant)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:49:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. I won't actually make it there by 8, and I'd like to see if this
driver compiles. Is 9:30 or something too late?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:50:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Probably is just barely too late.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:51:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, this place is open 24 hours?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:51:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am not used to places being open 24 hours other than "Verde's on a
good semester"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:51:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:51:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Welcome to the world outside Boston"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:52:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It's as far as I can tell the only place in the entire Pacific time
zone that is open 24h. Okay, not quite really, but 1 of 3 that I know
of in SF.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:52:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a 24-hour Subway on University Ave in Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

The other two are within 3 blocks of each other, near Duboce & Market,
for some reason. (Curiously, super-close to my old house. I also went
to them a total of once each.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:53:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Oh, yeah, lots of 24h Subway places on Market Street actually. I guess
I just don't count those as places, but when hungry, they count.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:53:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, you meant reasonable places. Fair enough :)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Well I actually just meant places but forgot those (:

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:53:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I happen to know that the Starbucks at Spruce & California is open 24h.
You probably don't care. I only know because I used to live a block away

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:53:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That is pretty neat, actually, broder.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:54:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Don't tell me about 24-hour Starbucks, then I'll never sleep again

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:54:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's pretty far from anything

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:54:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

But DNA Pizza serves coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:54:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(They're not actually 24h - they close for a few hours Monday morning)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:58:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

wait... why are you renting a house from a romantic poet?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:59:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

er, didn't Augusta die in 1851?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 14 22:59:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because it's closer to work than Walden Pond

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:16:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:16:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Windows VM that was _running the kernel debugger_ bluescreened

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:16:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the one _being debugged_ is fine (well, stopped, since the debugger
died while it was stopped, but)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:17:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... and all I'd done was tried to open windbg's help

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:20:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

quality

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:36:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... did I really just crash windbg?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:36:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'd decided this wasn't actually a kernel issue and so I could run a
local debugger on the system exhibiting the problem)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:40:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why are you still doing work. You should be going home.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:40:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, HalpHpetClockInterrupt is my favorite function name

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:42:07 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

<3 

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 14 23:42:10 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

HAL

Class: geofft Instance: ddg
Time: Wed Feb 15 01:30:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DuckDuckGo is case-insensitive? That seems poor

Class: geofft Instance: eim
Time: Wed Feb 15 02:10:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I miss quiz bowl. (I was actually thinking that earlier today.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 15 03:09:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Srsly, the Debian Haskell team uses Darcs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:28:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At the encouragement-ish of others, I now have a centralized-ish
zephyr blacklist. If you're subbed to -c sipb or -i white-magic, you
should
:source /mit/geofft/Public/punt
and it will make your life better

(If people want equivalent zwgc.desc or something config, I can come
up with one, but all the world's barnowl these days, I hear)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:28:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I'd rather corrupt the text than actually delete the zephyr
entirely.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:29:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Patches welcome

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:29:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But this works well for me, and I think works better than
buzzfiltering. Certainly I think punting instead of buzzfiltering
helped white-magic out quite a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:30:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Someone had a config to turn nhoward's zephyr into "WHARGARBL" or some
such, but it may have been for VT

Class: geofft Instance: else.2
Time: Wed Feb 15 16:33:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I should find a weekday church in the area (to replace LEM),
because I can never wake up on Sunday mornings

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:35:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whine why isn't the Windows terminal emulator more like xterm whine

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:36:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also, I'm amused how PuTTY isn't actually capable of emulating the
Windows terminal usefully)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:36:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, the windows terminal isn't really a terminal.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:43:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure why they gave me a docking station and nothing to plug
in to it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:43:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Which docking station? Is it one of the old-school Dell ones? Because
if so, you don't want any of the laptops that could plug into it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Er, no, I have a laptop that can plug into it. I just have nothing I
want the laptop to dock to

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(no monitor, no awesome serial or parallel devices, no USB
peripherals, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If nothing else, it's nice to only have to undo one connector at-oh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You should get a monitor and keyboard, you'll kill your neck looking
down at a laptop all day.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Make John order a monitor for you when he gets back in town

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:44:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:45:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I say this from long, painful, and expensive experience)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:45:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I kind of actually do want a monitor if I'm looking at two VMs
and code at once...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:45:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Why buy one, when you can buy two, at twice the price?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:45:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But at the moment, the laptop is plugged into power and Ethernet, and
I'm not convinced that unplugging the two is harder than undocking.
Especially since I want the laptop in my lap when I'm at my desk

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:46:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> I want the laptop in my lap when I'm at my desk

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:47:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's more comfortable / allows me to change posture periodically?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:47:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can you put a keyboard in your lap and the laptop on the desk?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:47:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(That's what I do.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:48:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"If I had a keyboard...."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:48:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You're welcome to the keybaord on my desk

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:48:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You really don't want it in your lap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:48:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The laptop, the keyboard, or both?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:49:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You want a monitor in front of you at eye level and a keyboard and/or
pointing device in front of you at an appropriate height.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:57:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, just typed dir in Linux

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:57:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You may all proceed to make fun of me

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:57:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

alias dir ls, YKYWT

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:57:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a /bin/dir, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That used to work on my RedHat 6.0 install in 1999. Maybe RH's bashrc
still has it work? (Fedora's too, presumably?)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:58:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Unless that was a Mandrake value-add, and I'm mis-remembering. I used
Mandrake for a while, too, immediately post-RH 6.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:59:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I recall it working in RH6.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:59:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Works on Ubuntu.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:59:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the
dictionary. - William Faulkner (about Ernest Hemingway)
 <rnjacobs>

I remember it being there in RH5.2; works in Debian Sid currently, too.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 17:59:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

"It's not in fbsd"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:31:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

TortoiseSVN makes it particularly easy to not have a commit message...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:31:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, Visual Studio does dumb things with spaces and tabs....

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:32:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's for the Internet. It's an Engineering Task. Let's use some Force. -- Simon Spero <eichin>

we fixed that with a commit hook :-)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:32:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Given that this is just a repo to synchronize the guest and host,
that seems like way too much effort

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:38:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I still don't understand why Windows bothers with a pageable kernel. I
guess an NT 4 kernel that doesn't run in 16 MB RAM makes the baby
Raymond Chen cry

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:55:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the closest equivalent of Microcenter around here?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:55:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Fry's?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:55:50 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Getting whacked on the head really hard with a clue-by-four, or How I
learned to become bitter and regain my sanity. <aatharuv>

There's a Microcenter in Santa Clara. However, ==kdrinkwa -- The
closest one to you is in Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:56:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there are two actual Microcenters closer to San Jose, but
that's less convenient than "walking distance from Next House"

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:56:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

(I feel like I should have a better answer to this question, but the
only Fry's I know of -- oh, wait, there's one closer than Sunnyvale?
Great.)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:56:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, there's a Best Buy closer than that.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:59:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Sunnyvale? Aren't there vampires there?"

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 18:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

++

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:05:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

I will put in another vote for going to Fry's, if only to see Fry's.  
The one in Palo Alto has a cowboy theme for...no particular reason I
can discern.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:05:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:05:50 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

Every Fry's has it's own theme. There's another one with an Aztec theme.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:06:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Oh, hey, you should also go to the Computer History Museum at some
point.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:06:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Not that they have what you want to buy.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:06:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"maybe they do"

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:07:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"the computers aren't for sale -- all they have for sale is t-shirts
and stuff"

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:07:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

==
do they still have the Babbage engine on display?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:07:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah. Or, well, I think it's a replica. But it's there.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:08:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

well, yes, there are no originals :)
But the one they have is apparently a long-term loan

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 19:10:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They have different themes?! I've only ever been to the PA one

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:57:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

noise-cancelling headphones and a burrito

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Unlike an iPhone, you cannot plug the headphones into the burrito.

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

Technically you _an_

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You can plug an iPhone into a burrito?

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

*can

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

yes, but you can plug the burrito into your mouth

Class: geofft Instance: gotItems
Time: Wed Feb 15 20:58:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, this is a little creepy. Why is it so quiet.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:09:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... where is my phone? I totally had my phone in the car this morning
and it's not at my desk or in the car

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:11:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you're really bad at keeping track of your phone

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:16:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There's one in Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:17:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Okay, I am way late on this.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:37:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

$ mplayer *
mplayer: Symbol `ff_codec_bmp_tags' has different size in shared
object, consider re-linking

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:37:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do you have prelink?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:37:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On... Ubuntu? I don't think so?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:39:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Why did summer go so quickly? Was it something that I said? <eichin>

I get that all the time too, on oneiric,
but haven't seen it cause any trouble...

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:41:04 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: jag försöker skaffa mig ett liv. <eichin>

looks like libavformat.so provides it

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:41:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Has...different size? Is it just saying "you changed the underlying
library and didn't bump the SONAME"?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:41:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Err "changed the library in a not-necessarily ABI-incompatible way
[...]"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:42:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information is not power after all: Old-fashioned power is power. - Cringely <eichin>

could be.  I note that I have libavformat.so.52
and libavformat.so.53, and mplayer is picking up the latter

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:42:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could totally buy that the ffmpeg -> libav fork changed the library
in a hopefully-not-ABI-incompatible way

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:45:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bah, do I need to figure out how to write an INF file now?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:45:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I'm actually reaching the point where I don't know how to do
this in Linux, so I should stop whining about Windows not being Linux

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:49:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But it doesn't even sound like it's checking for that. It sounds like
the warning message is "this isn't the exact library I was compiled
against"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:53:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

woo mplayer

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:54:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: CAUTION: OBJECTS IN SCREEN ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR <eichin>

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/878815
is... relevant but not really informative

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 21:59:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Chicago!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:06:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sups and sandwich theorems: the bread and butter of analysis. <ageng>

*waves to geofft*

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:12:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ha, these GUIDs have MAC addresses in them. I wonder who
08002be10318 is.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:12:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Actually I"m more curious who 0010dc4050a5 is

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:13:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

You should do the research and post a blog.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:13:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seems difficult without layer 2 access to the Microsoft internal
network.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:14:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Of the late '90s.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:14:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I was thinking layer 9 access to microsoft people from the
late 90s.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:14:59 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

You might also get MSI to tell you exactly which card
0010dc4050a5 was.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:15:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I like the story that involved generating a GUID using a network
card's MAC address and then smashing it with a hammer.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:15:26 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I'm amused that 08002be10318 is DEC.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:15:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

DEC Tulips were pretty popular.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:28:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there a technical term for this thing pop music does with being a
half-beat head of the start of a measure?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:29:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*ahead

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:29:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

example?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:30:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm on the edge --       of glo -- ry --
3   +  4   +    1  2  3  4  +   1  +  2 

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:31:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, "anticipation" in classical theory, but that doesn't quite
seem to be the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:32:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Syncopation?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:32:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is that actually it?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

Seems like ordinary pick-up notes to me...

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:33:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The example at the top of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncopation
refers to the sforzandos that occur on the off-beats (well,
off-16th-notes), which seems like the same thing

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:33:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"syncopation is a general term for a disturbance or interruption of the
regular flow of rhythm; a placement of rhythmic stresses or accents
where they wouldn't normally occur"

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:34:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've always thought syncopation to be things more like
eighth-quarter-eighth, not quarter-quarter-quarter-quarter a
half-beat off

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:34:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncopation#Off-beat_syncopation

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:35:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

ezyang: I assume that geofft is referring to the beats that the
syllables of "edge" and "glo-ry" fall on

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:35:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Enh, fine.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:36:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right. You could also do it like this without disrupting the rest of
the song:

    I'm on the edge --   of glo -- ry --
3   +   4  +   1  2  3  4  +   1  +  2 

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:37:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Haha, "This is EXACTLY the same technique we used to generate the GUID
for the item level properties ACEs in Exchange - we took a network
card and destroyed it. "

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:37:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

What's the benefit of destroying the network card?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:37:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Nobody can ever generate another UUID based on that MAC address!

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:39:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: When you ship styrofoam, what do you pack it in?
 <rnjacobs>

In high school band, the teacher just called those pick-up notes.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:40:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I would disagree with that - I thought a pick-up note has to be
followed by a note on the main beat, where as these notes are isolated

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:41:08 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Wow!  You could've had a potion of fruit juice!
 <rnjacobs>

.... Does his example not do that?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:41:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Certainly "edge" and "-ry" don't

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:41:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Do I need to write this out in LilyPond?'

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:43:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

> Is there a technical term for this thing pop music does with being a
> half-beat [a]head of the start of a measure?

I'm assuming that's talking about "of glo", rather than the "ry" part.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:44:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, but "-ry" isn't on the downbeat.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:44:57 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

So you're asking "why is the entire verse shifted" ?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:45:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

er, "what is it called when the entire verse is shifted", even

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:46:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A better example would be the next line:
and I'm hang-ing on a mom-ent of truth  --
4   +   1    +   2  + 3   +   4  +      1  2

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:46:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and I'm" are clearly pickup notes, but "truth" isn't, really.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:47:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And I think I have a harder time calling "truth" syncopated)

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:47:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:47:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's a rhythmic variation placing emphasis on the offbeat

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:49:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think it depends on whether you read it "HANGing ON a MOment OF
truth" or ".. MOment of TRUTH". I guess it has to be the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:49:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <zhangc>

==broder. If you find sheet music for pop music, a lot of it does
things like that "truth", which I would call syncopated. 

Yes, it would be the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Feb 15 22:49:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Isn't "truth" sustained into the first beat of the next measure?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 15 23:46:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... the switch at my desk is in tempo with the music. weird

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 15 23:49:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

which is confusing because this song is 123 bpm. 120 would have made
sense

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:07:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha! If the documentation says "foo is required for bar", and I'm not
seeing a foo, that probably means I'm not looking at a bar!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:07:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unfortunately I'm writing a bar :(

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:34:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Romney strapped his dog to the roof of his car for a 12-hour trip to
Canada in 1983? lolwat

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:34:59 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

yup, and it peed in terror. boo animal cruelty.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:37:53 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you read Gail Collins's op-ed columns, you'd know this =)

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:38:12 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(she mentions it in literally every column that mentions Romney)

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:40:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Viper, a blaster and a Gund. <eichin>

in a carrier, not open-air, just in case that wasn't clear...

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:41:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, I found out about this from spreadingromney.com, which appears
to be the parallel site to spreadingsantorum.com

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Thu Feb 16 00:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I...feel like that makes a significant difference.
Also the aerodynamics of the setup.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:11:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Zephyr from achernya  01:09  (Alexander Chernyakhovsky)
    *sigh* You're nightshifted *and* you're timezoned. Not a good
    combination.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:11:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

come back to hua!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:11:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

Ian's mixing drinks

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:12:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I was hoping to _stop_ coming back there by several days ago"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:12:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

:/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:12:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

still no news?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:13:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rental office person says "The owner is currently reviewing
applications. I'll let you know when we hear from him." as of 2PM
today

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:14:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I'm surprised they're not doing it faster ... considering that every day is lost
money

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:15:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, lights at work just turned off. Maybe that's a sign of
something...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:16:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

See, what did I tell you?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:19:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, crap, I wonder if I wanted Windows line endings

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:23:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh* Nope, that wasn't it. And Windows!strace isn't helping :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:27:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, I don't think I've ever managed to sustain being interested in
drinking enough to know at what point I shouldn't drink any more

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:28:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I tend to get disinterested in drinking alcohol at a certain point
unless there is some political reason for me to drink more.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:28:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I usually only do it socially

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:29:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I guess I'm suspectible enough to peer pressure that getting pretty tipsy is
easy, although I've never gotten to the point that I drank too much

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:31:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

... except I might actually be allergic to alcohol

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:31:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 01:33:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah, giving up

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Feb 16 03:00:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wah, gnome3.2's system settings dialog is weird

Class: geofft Instance: gnome3
Time: Thu Feb 16 03:01:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and they still haven't unified Screen and Displays"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 03:52:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, did I previously not actually have an RT clone?

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip
Time: Thu Feb 16 16:20:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you're going to eat a sandwich while driving, don't make it a
pulled pork sandwich

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 16:33:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha! At MIT I was always able to eat while _walking_

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 16:33:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was trying to figure out why food seems to be such an annoyance to
schedule

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 16:34:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and if you're walking, you can manage eating things like sushi)

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 16:35:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I find eating while at a desk is more reasonable in the new world order of work
instead of school

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:03:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want like four monitors

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:04:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Monitors are cheap, and those usb monitor adapter things
actually work these days.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:04:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought I saw one of those in the conference room. I was surprised
at that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:05:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I use one at work so I can have three monitors. They are
great.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:05:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"But how many pixels do you want?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:05:25 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

They are all the same chip, DisplayLink is the
protocol/driver/chip.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:09:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh* I think you misunderstand least privilege

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:10:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"gpg usually handles Important Data" does not actually imply "if gpg
gets compromised, no point in preventing the rest of the system from
getting compromised"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:11:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That logic will lead you to "no point in putting an AppArmor profile
on Firefox since most people visit their bank's website in Firefox"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:12:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

That sounds like someone who can't distinguish variations of "really,
really bad".

Class: geofft Instance: debian-derivatives
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:14:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it makes more sense in context, since the discussion is
AppArmor profiles for a Debian live something that exists just to GPG
everything

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:58:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, other than xavid, is everyone on scripts-root on _either_
linerva-root or xvm-root but not both?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:59:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But scripts-root union linerva-root != scripts-root

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 17:59:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

er s/scripts/xvm/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:00:20 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Wait, those aren't equivalent...?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:00:47 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

You want, like, scripts-root is a subset of the symmetric difference

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:01:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:01:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Bethany, Josh (linerva), Peter, and Paul (XVM) are the non-scripts
crowd?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:03:33 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"Peter, Paul, and M^HBethany"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:18:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It seems weird to me that everything goes into a single global
namespace in C:\Windows\System32. What happens if you have multiple
files with the same name?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:18:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(see above, "and suddenly geofft was enlightened")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:20:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You've heard of the term "DLL hell" before, right?

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:20:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

git svn dcommit; git commit --amend; git svn dcommit doesn't work as
well as you'd hope

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:20:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought that was multiple versions of the same DLL. I'm worried
about the case where two independent people pick the same name for
their DLL

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:21:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Look out! Monkeys!
 <rnjacobs>

"Don't do that"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:21:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Usually I see applications ship with their own DLLs for that reason.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:21:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is why things are supposed to go into C:\windows\system32\WinSxS
with a structured name now, isn't it? Or does only MS get to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:23:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also,
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

    THIS CODE AND INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
    KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE
    IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND/OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
    PURPOSE.
That phrasing is _exactly_ what's in the GPL. Where does it come from?
US Code somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:34:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AAARGH WHY IS IT COPY NOT CP

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:35:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#firstworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

I thought windows powershell did a decent job of implementing linux
terminology.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:36:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sigh* Okay, everyone keeps telling me I should give Powershell
another shot

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:37:29 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The first person to prove that cow's milk is drinkable was very, very thirsty. <asedeno>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty#Disclaimer_of_an_implied_warranty

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:39:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah, uniform commercial code makes sense

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:54:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the DPL is doing Iron Blogger? wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 18:54:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yessssss

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:01:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

DPL = Debian Project Leader?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:01:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:05:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I miss arranging for a cappella :(

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:07:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"hey people in the Bay Area, anyone want to start an a cappella group"

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you should ask -c leftcoaster

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:17 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"Weren't you going to do one over G+ Hangouts?"

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:21 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I'm not in the Bay Area and don't want toform an a cappella group.
Two negatives make a positive, right?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, was unaware of that class, thanks

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

If you are actually serious about it and can throw some resources at your
organization stat, you could probably make it happen.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:08:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

np

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:09:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I'm willing to organize one.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:09:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also there's a ba-acappella Yahoo! group.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:11:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

zomg yes

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:11:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you accept totally incompetent people?

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:11:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Want to teach me to sing this summer?"

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:11:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... ... We can work on you a bit and see how that goes

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:32:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... perl script? lolwat? I thought this was Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:33:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Dude, ActiveState.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:33:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no idea what perl this is, but this directory in the DDK
apparently contains a bunch of .pm files and a perl.exe

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:35:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hah*

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:36:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Looks like it's Active Perl.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg487438

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:37:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff551621(v=vs.85).aspx

And even has been tested with other perls.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:38:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, is this... o_O, yes, this is a .bat file that reexecs itself as
a perl script

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:40:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have you seen the IOCC entry that's a Makefile, C program, and bash
script?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:50:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have never understood why a svn commit doesn't imply an update

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:50:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

svn ci just_one_file_in_my_dir -m 'lol, committing one file at a time
makes for a weird life'

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:51:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You can svn up a single file too!

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:51:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because svn is *wrong*.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Feb 16 19:51:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"well, besides that"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:15:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i UN Beer-For-Ramen Program

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:16:31 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That would...make money for the UN, you know.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:16:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Surely ramen doesn't have enough actual nutritional content to count
as "food"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:17:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

but if you add the flavor packet, it will prevent scurvy!

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:17:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If your diet in a first world country is putting you in danger of
scurvy, I don't even know where to begin.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Thu Feb 16 20:17:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I do. Vitamin C"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:07:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woooo! *finally* got a kernel crash

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:07:36 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:07:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is exciting because it means I'm no longer fighting with loading
code into the kernel, disabling driver signing, &c.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:07:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

actually getting newly-compiled code to take, ...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:08:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Windows kernel crashes aren't exciting. Everyone used to get them all the
time.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:08:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are many like it, but this is mine!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:09:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Your precious?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:10:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... why did you leave the debugger and reboot. you're dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:17:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:17:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should have looked at the warnings, I bet that would have been
clever

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:27:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I also still have no idea what MSDN means by a "pointer to a string"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do you mean, like... a string?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

char**?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think a PCWSTR is just a const wchar_t *.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

std::string*

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

auto_ptr<String>

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:28:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At least from what I remember of Windows from high school, an LPCTSTR
is a fancy way to say const char *

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:29:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(unless you're using unicode)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:29:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And if I'm doing my Hungarian notation right, PCWSTR is analogous

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:30:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, I guess I'll check the compiler warnings this time and notice
type errors _before_ my kernel panics

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:30:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

-Wall -Werror -Wextra -pedantic -keithw-is-a-superior-form-of-being?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:31:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

/W4 /WX /GR /LPCTKEITHW

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:32:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(long pointer to either a constant keithw or a constant wide keithw,
depending on whether Unicode is in use)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:32:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hahaha*

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:33:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How did str->ketihw happen?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:35:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

liftKeith :: a -> Keithw a

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:35:26 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

++++++

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:35:40 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Or, "the constructor wasn't declared explicit"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:39:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AUGH why is this a PTHING *

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:39:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

can't you just make it a PPTHING or a THING **

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:40:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Fuck Windows typedefs.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:40:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

CHARLES SIMONYI I will SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE for BEING HUNGARIAN

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:40:23 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

HE ISN'T EVEN HUNGARIAN

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:41:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wikipedia tells me he was born in Budapest.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:41:12 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Yeah, he's actually hungarian.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:41:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Not sure where I got that from.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:41:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

"It sounded good in all caps"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:41:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

git log 2be1301b7d..0e727613ac

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:42:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:44:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"you can just hear greg k-h screaming"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:44:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"But you can usually hear that at any time anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:44:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:49:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, I just typed "open" to try to open a file. Not start or
gnome-open.... and I haven't touched a Mac in like two weeks

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:51:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Alias it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:51:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

CS as in Crazy Stalker?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 21:51:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:08:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha, looks like the memory could not be %s.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:09:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I haven't eaten in %d hours... I should probably %s something
to %s

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:11:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:11:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There's food over by the board room

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:14:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh, food leftover from catering. It's like I never left grad school!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 22:31:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

wooooooooo food

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:19:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oops. Someone remind me to drop by FedEx tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:30:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, is the int foo[10] = {[0..9] = 5} syntax a _GNU_ extension? sigh

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:31:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

From a glance at C99, it looks like {[0] = 5} is C99, but {[0..9] =
5} is not.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:32:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(er, three dots, oops)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:32:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I would totally believe all these things.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:32:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I have never seen that syntax before

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is the best syntax.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(==broder)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

==broder

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I've encountered it somewhere, I can't recall where.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Probably in Linux

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I'm positive the Linux kernel makes good use of it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:33:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"So, Evan, can I switch the build system to mingw?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Robbie always wanted to switch it to Scons

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

How about clang?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

clang works on Windows, right?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Scons is... orthogonal

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh sorry, wasn't paying attention

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:34:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, okay, then I'll take that as a yes.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:35:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Careful, Geoff, that may be a can of worms.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:35:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If you're asking me about the Linux builds, I don't know why you'd want
to switch to mingw. If you're asking me about anything that's not
Linux, I don't know why you're asking me

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:36:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:47:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It has been suggested that we write a Bayesian classifier for -c sipb
trolls

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:48:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Use of profanity on -c sipb is probably a good metric.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:48:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Perhaps some sort of linguistics-foo to determine tone?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:48:49 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

fuck that.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:49:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

kcr: :/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:49:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"And given past history, we know that scheduler changes cannot happen
overnight... unless your name is Ingo that is."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:50:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"whitelist Karl and move on"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:50:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lol. Windows apparently failed to install a device called "Hello #40"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:50:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I've attempted to install this a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 16 23:55:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Someone remind me to become rich so that I can get involved in MIT
politics again by being an opinionated alum donor

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:02:48 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: parable <kaduk>

you should drop by FedEx

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:05:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also via lwn:
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kadav/new/carb/Site/Problem.html

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q.d
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:07:36 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2012-February/037692.html

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:09:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also also via LWN:

"http://www.elliptics.ru (russian support forum - we can has
understand english and will answer pohmelfs questions too)"

I'm not convinced of that..

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:17:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, huh, PyCon is out here.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:18:55 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

and full.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:20:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm planning to try and sneak in for some of the sprints. I'm not
actually sure whether ot not that will work

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:22:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It sounds plausible.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:23:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Some large number of my coworkers had been planning to go
and didn't register in time.  "So I guess I will have more free time there
than anticipated"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:24:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I spent a while chatting with Barry Warsaw about various Python/Ubuntu
stuff at the last UDS, and he suggested meeting up to do some hacking
on that sort of thing

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:24:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Asking work to send me seemed unreasonable (and there are other things
I want them sending me to), and I didn't feel like paying my own way

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:26:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what sort of thing?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:26:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, I know we talked about trying to improve some of the warts in
PyGObject. Can't remember what else off the top of my head

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:27:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... did I just attempt to type "emacs" because my brain knew that
"vi" wouldn't work?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:27:21 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You can fix that.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:27:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Things like autogenerating docstrings and parameter information based
on the introspection comments)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:27:59 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

"both ways"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:30:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OK, shiny

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:30:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also a graphical browser for typelibs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:48:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hm, side effects of the "nobody cares abut this repo, commit all the
time" strategy, partial list: every other commit has commit message
"fix build"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 00:50:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's also a side effect of "it's hard to test build 3 different
platforms every time you want to commit"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:00:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, I'm definitely past the point where I'm being productive on
work stuff. I am, however, giving #ubuntu-devel brilliant ideas via
broder

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:00:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"perhaps we should both go home"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:01:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I totally have code for doing classification of text, originally
intended for classify zephyrs by how much I want to read them. It had
pretty high accuracy classifying emails as ESP or SIPB.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:05:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Grah, stop writing &foo[0]

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do you understand how pointers work

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:21 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Er, whey doing that?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Hmm, is there an excuse for that?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Not in C"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh? There's totally an excuse for that. It makes warnings go away

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:06:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If foo is an array

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:07:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... how?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:07:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Then foo is (char (*)[12]) or something like that, while &foo[0] is
char *

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:39:21 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

broder: you can definitely sneak into the sprints.  That's what I did
last year, on about a week's notice...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:41:09 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Nobody even frowned on it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:41:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Uh, no.  Array is char[12], and you can use a char[12] anywhere you
can use a char *.  Pointer-to-array is char (*)[12], but &foo[0]
would give you the same thing in that case.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:58:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I swear I've written &foo[0] to silence compiler warnings...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:59:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I would buy that it silences an MSVC warning :)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:59:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dude, I don't write code against MSVC

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 01:59:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(there are soooo many pragmata, also)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 02:00:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

pragmata? There's nothing pragmatic about them.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 02:01:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

are pragmata like stigmata?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:22:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

okay why am I still at work. -> leaving

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:22:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:21:23 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

"you're working too hard"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:23:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

its only midnight:30 and you're bad at time?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:24:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I got to work at like 1, I let myself get nightshifted ('cause my
boss is out of town and I don't really have timing constraints and no
one seems to care)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:56:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The only place still open is In-N-Out, and I had to pull up the web
on my phone at the drive thru window to remind myself of the "secret
menu". Your gimmicks displease me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:57:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#firstworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:57:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: No one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Melissa - ismith <wings>

It's not really a secret menu, it's a "if we have the ingredients and
it's reasonable to make we'll make it for you"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:58:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Now I want to alias redbull='add wings' - ismith <wings>

Like, animal style?  You can ask for extra pickles, spread, etc

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:58:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, but it's not listed, so I needed my phone

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:59:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I forgot what can and can't be ordered animal style

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 03:59:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I thought Jesus was basically God deciding to LARP. - geofft <wings>

Any burger can be animal style

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 04:00:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Have you considered suffering in silence? It might be good for your liver." - kcr <pbaranay>

And we can eat it like we do on the discovery channel?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 04:00:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a Hugstorm! Apparently the Hug mages were out of herbs. - peairs <wings>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 04:01:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Animal style?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 17 04:04:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: a bunch of Assassins pretending to be 5-year-olds - codetaku, on Playground <wings>

Basically extra everything

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:10:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*sighwtf*

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:11:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How long does it take for you to figure out if we got the apartment or
not? #shutupandtakemymoney

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:12:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

agreed

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:44:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, can I summon Randomite cruft on my class to tell stories about
MacGray?

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:45:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are we talking about the washers?

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:45:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:45:03 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Housing is installing a new desk management system into Next House
because we were teh test case.  All desk systems will be replaced soon
with this one giant steaming pile of crap.

geofft was telling me that MacGray tried to get Random to stop its
washer/dryer tracking system and Legal said gtfo

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:50:03 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that only female monsters can lay eggs.
 <rnjacobs>

Oh, that! Yeah. It was, hailariously, after the @i{2nd} time we'd hit slashdot
that they tried to send us the notice.

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:50:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(I didn't remember the company name)

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:50:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

What were they complaining about?

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:50:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Was it actually MacGray?

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:50:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

They have a patent on a washer/drier monitoring system.

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:51:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(Random's prior art, since the original installation dates to ... 96? 95? "A
year before their patent, anyway")

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:52:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

http://tech.mit.edu/V126/N9/9laundrytext.html

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:53:30 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

This references "LaundryView" as the thing we have here, and
separately refers to a company that tried to patent the laundry
server, so I always assumed they were separate

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Fri Feb 17 12:54:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> laundry server
Brings a whole new meaning to "spinlock", doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:33:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"'Let the user choose' is almost as stupid an idea for drivers as it
is for health insurance.  No-one wants to think about that, they
just want their shit to work."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:35:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That...doesn't really work as a general-purpose argument.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:38:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A wondrous and intricate golden amulet.  Too bad you have no neck.
 <rnjacobs>

I can ... sorta justify that for drivers. But it definitely doesn't extend to
anything involving UI.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:39:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And comparing to health insurance is kinda off.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:39:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, Kenneth Arrow mathematically demonstrated that health
insurance doesn't work like practically any other market.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:40:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

yeah, ok, really off.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Fri Feb 17 13:42:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that when you wear a circular amulet you might resemble a troll.
 <rnjacobs>

"People don't want to think about health insurance but have to anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:11:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dude, food trucks!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:11:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ooh, is the Indian burrito truck there?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:13:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Curry Up Now. They make a great chicken tikka masala burrito

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:13:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I've... never seen those words used in that order, but it sounds
delicious

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:13:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's *amazing*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:13:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> chicken tikka masala burrito
...tell me more.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:14:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You guys will have to show me this in June when I come out there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:14:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

... this is a thing?  I want one.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:14:34 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

*headtilt*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:14:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*headtilt*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:14:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They're not there, I want one too now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:15:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"If only the Burrito Tunnel actually existed"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:15:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:15:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's just the Vietnamese and Peruvian ones

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:15:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Damn. They're one of the trucks that usually comes to the weekly Off
The Grid event at Fort Mason

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:16:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh. I guess it *was* one of the trucks that came to Fort Mason, but
OTG is taking the winter off there apparently

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:16:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fort Mason?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:17:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

An old retired army fort that's near my place

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:19:41 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unpacking <aatharuv>

There are a number of artistic/performance groups working out of that
space (and OTG is there every Friday).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:19:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But not during the winter, apparently - OTG is out until March

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:20:00 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: By 2010, according to senior Intel architects, a CPU will have 
processing power equivalent to the brain of a bumble bee - The Economist, several years back.
(Is this actually true now?) <aatharuv>

(Interestingly enough, I'm eating a curry up now decon samosa right now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:20:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There's also a nice farmers market on Sundays

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:22:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

> I've... never seen those words used in that order

http://twitter.com/#!/ThrillistSF/statuses/164123296361758720

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:23:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Anyway, I encourage you guys to seek up the Curry Up Now food trucks
and try their burrito

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:23:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Man, why didn't anyone lobby for a burrito tunnel project as part of
ARRA? That would have been the best.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Next time they're out here I should try their Vietnamese iced coffee +
Thai iced tea thing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:23:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(back in the day, as it were)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:24:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, for the Vietnamese place. But I don't need that much caffeine
today

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:24:27 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Intrigued, newsletter, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:25:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(http://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda-weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm,
if you hadn't read the story)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:31:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh, their coffee was _tiny_

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:45:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

CEO: "It's like a big ball of spaghetti made by 700 cooks with
thousands of puzzle pieces, all different"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:46:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Most mixed metaphor ever.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:47:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Almost as mixed as ... the aforementioned ball of spaghetti itself.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:47:19 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

The thing that really gets me with WIndows is that the
cooks were from a culture with strangely different opinions
of what constituted good food.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:47:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Even the really elegant parts of windows seem like they
came from Mars.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:47:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't understand why half of the MSDN docs say IN and OUT and the
other half say __in and __out
(the least of my problems, I know)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:48:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Consistency is a privilege of small teams.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:48:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Mars, VMS, what's the difference"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:49:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Butbut these are docs for the same thing! :(

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:49:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

"Linux is from Mars, Windows is from VMS"?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:49:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

booooooo

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:49:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"Men are from System V, women are from VMS?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:49:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

It would be a great blog post title. Geoff, you sohuld
write it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:50:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Actually, writing a series of blog posts about being a
linux.unix person coming to windows in 2012 would be
interesting. If you weren't worried about getting typecast.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 15:50:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i LPCGEOFFT

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:37:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

why an I not just apt-get install dbgsyms :(

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:37:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Can't you point windbg at a symbol server?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:37:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Yes, but it's different"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:38:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, since my debugger is in a kvm -snapshot of the debuggee, the
symbols don't stick around. I guess I could ... fix that.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:39:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> kvm -snapshot
I did not know about that. Useful!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:44:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Grah, I really need to set up something to tell me when I have mail,
otherwise I never will check my work mailbox 'cause it doesn't show
up in barnowl. (I got this wrong all the time at my internships)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:44:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe a BarnOwl::Module::IMAP + a local barnowl on my work machine is
the right answer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:45:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> BarnOwl::Module::IMAP
Idea, newsletter, &c. Though be forewarned that IMAP is Awful.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:45:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I specifically want to connect to the Exchange server at work,
so I fully expect that :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:45:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there's always https://github.com/veinor/zephymap

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:46:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I toyed with a thing to use incron to watch my Maildir on my mail
server and zephyr me when I had mail, but I couldn't get incron to
behave properly.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:46:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if BarnOwl::Module::CClient would suck less.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:46:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

glasgall: I think I tried something like that at some point, too...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:47:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh good, it's not just me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:47:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(c-client would certainly suck _differently_.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:47:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

"But then I decided to have liz@lizdenys.com fwd to lizdenys@mit.edu and
all problems were solved!*"

*Execpt that I want liz@lizdenys.com to be my sender.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:47:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, glasgall@mit.edu is Exchange, so that doesn't help me either.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:48:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

oh hahahaa

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:48:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, I was sad, but I assume it's what anyone with a new account gets
these days.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:48:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Liz: ... Wait, you can fix that in alpine. I totally send from
geofft@ldpreload.com all the time from Athena (and it just forwards
to Athena, for lack of a better mail server)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:48:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Yeah... but I want to *actually* use liz@lizdenys.com in pine instead of
the other way around.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

so I guess I just poorly explained my issue :P

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Lisa Loeb – Split Second
 <rnjacobs>

... For a machine where you control the mailserver, it's easy to add a
zephyr-sending hook.
Although I see you're using GAFYD.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... do that? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, I want the hook to fire after spam filtering (which currently
happens via procmail) happens.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I know, I need to move it to sieve, but EFFORT)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:49:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I reply to a message sent to ldpreload.com, alpine defaults me to
geofft@ldpreload.com

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:50:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

"yes, but I don't have a convenient machine I trust enough to run a
mailserver. That's okay."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:50:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

See the "roles" config section

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:50:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Even if I did control the mail server at work, I imagine a
zephyr-sending hook would be hard"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 16:52:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And I couldn't get procmail to quite DTRT either. Also I hate messing
with procmail.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:00:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, the SPF record for ldpreload.com makes no sense.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:00:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why did I do that?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:09:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

glasgall: Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Basically it sets up a temporary
QCOW disk description pointed at the file you specify and a writable
layer in /tmp. I think you can add ",snapshot" on a specific disk to
just snapshot that one.

It opens this disk readonly, but you can force a writeback in the
monitor (Ctrl-Alt-2 or something, or -monitor stdio) with some command
if you care. Generally I don't.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:09:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But yeah, my current setup is boot one VM without snapshot to do
builds and tests on, have it wait for a serial connection from the
second VM which does have snapshot, and have them both boot at the
same time (so they both think they're booting a cleanly-shut-down
disk image)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:09:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Clearly I should write an "Effective KVM" blogpost.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:10:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, Monday's a holiday? Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:12:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fortunately, with multiarch, you can have a girlfriend:i386 and a
girlfriend:amd64

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:13:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... but you ... can't upgrade one without upgrading the other? Or
something???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:14:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

multiarch is like being poly with screwed up dependency issues

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:14:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:14:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:15:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, monogamy is Multi-arch: foreign; poly is...the other one.
Unless I got that backwards.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:17:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You know what, it's not even worth thinking about.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:17:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

except you're comparing polyamory with monogamy, and those aren't mutually
exclusive :)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:17:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, yes. It was for the sake of a stupid joke on top of a stupid joke
:)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, there's patriarch, matriach, and multiarch!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:19:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

RISE AGAINST THE MULTIARCHY

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.i-don't-understand-my-brain-sometimes
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:19:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

booooo

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:26:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also convenient: I can quit the debugger with a "q" instead of waiting
for a clean shutdown :-P

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:51:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, the "local kernel debug" button seems to have frozen my machine.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:51:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I shouldn't be surprised

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 17:52:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

o_O it's back

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 18:11:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... does this sample code even work???

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 18:13:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... is MSDN even right????

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 18:19:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure whether I'm more annoyed at this laptop's lack of a
Break key or my repeated need for one in this day and age

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 17 19:57:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dear world, consider sucking less. kthxbai, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 17 19:58:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It's blowing over here.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Feb 17 20:05:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also I should find an MITFCU-codeshare ATM, I've almost burned through the
(copious) cash I brought with me via paid parking

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:24:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

NVIDIA is hiring interns to work on their Linux graphics drivers.
Everyone on -c geofft, please apply, the world needs you

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:24:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

=========

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:24:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Go catch nVidia up with the last 10 years of X development

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:25:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmm... Can we put node.js in the kernel...?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:26:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Have you seen "Node.JS is Bad Ass Rock Star Tech?" (á la
xtranormal/"MongoDB is Web Scale".)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:26:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:26:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

Dammit, Nelson just referenced it.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:54:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, what the hell happened to kernel/sched.c

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 21:55:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This looks somewhat relevant:

commit 029632fbb7b7c9d85063cc9eb470de6c54873df3
Author: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
Date:   Tue Oct 25 10:00:11 2011 +0200

    sched: Make separate sched*.c translation units

    Since once needs to do something at conferences and fixing compile
    warnings doesn't actually require much if any attention I decided
    to break up the sched.c #include "*.c" fest.

    This further modularizes the scheduler code.

    Signed-off-by: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
    Link: http://lkml.kernel.org/n/tip-x0fcd3mnp8f9c99grcpewmhi@git.kernel.org
    Signed-off-by: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:00:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha.
commit 391e43da797a96aeb65410281891f6d0b0e9611c
Author: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
Date:   Tue Nov 15 17:14:39 2011 +0100

    sched: Move all scheduler bits into kernel/sched/

    There's too many sched*.[ch] files in kernel/, give them their own
    directory.

    (No code changed, other than Makefile glue added.)

    Signed-off-by: Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
    Signed-off-by: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:00:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Linux 3.3 does in fact have a scheduler, no need to panic guys

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:06:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, here. What I was Really Trying To Do, inspired by the else, is
figure out if Linux does a context switch between two threads that
share the same mm (and therefore, strictly speaking, don't actually
need to get new page tables). From __schedule in kernel/sched/core.c
(3.3+, or kernel/sched.c in < 3.3), it looks like it does this:

static void __sched __schedule(void)
{
        struct task_struct *prev, *next;
        unsigned long *switch_count;
        struct rq *rq;
        ...
        if (likely(prev != next)) {
                rq->nr_switches++;
                rq->curr = next;
                ++*switch_count;

                context_switch(rq, prev, next); /* unlocks the rq */
                ...
        } else
                raw_spin_unlock_irq(&rq->lock);
        ...
}

which implies it's comparing processes, not their mm structs?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:06:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does that analysis seem correct?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:07:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And so you are actually suffering the context switch penalty if you
let the OS manage threads for you (as opposed to doing something like
fibers / coroutines / whatever you want to call pure-userspace
threads).

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:18:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, digging into context_switch() itself, it calls switch_mm(),
which is an arch-specific function, which (at least the one in
arch/x86/include/asm/mmu_context.h) has an "if (likely(prev != next))"
around load_cr3().

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:29:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(where in this context prev and next are now mm_structs)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:30:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But there are still some memory barriers, RCU twiddling, etc. that
get called regardless of whether prev->mm == next->mm. I wonder what
the performance impact of those are. Probably significantly less than
an actual TLB flush, but significantly more than entry into the
kernel to reschedule and a prompt different iret into the same
everything else

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:31:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Anyway, I still want to build the version of Linux that runs your
code in ring 0 and hopes for the best and implements syscalls via a
mere call instruction"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:32:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Where was I

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:33:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (São Paulo 1/28-2/19) <ternus>

gcc -fuck-it-well-do-it-live

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Feb 17 22:33:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:08:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do credit reports work? Is the FTC-approved
AnnualCreditReport.com what I want? Is this different from a credit
score?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:11:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Invert The Column 3/4 <kchen>

Credit scores take your report and turn it into a number.  Yes, that's
the site you want.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:12:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Center 4 Cross Roll To A Wave <kchen>

Note that in some states, you can also get a second free report per
year not on that site.  For example, in MA, you can get one (separate)
one free per calendar year.  (annualcreditreport.com you can get one
free once one year has passed since your last one.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:14:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All 6 By 2 Acey Deucey <kchen>

(And in all cases when I say one, I mean one per agency.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:23:12 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

If you want actual credit scores, myfico.com gives FICO scores from
2 of the 3 bureaus, for a fee.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:23:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Center Wave Left Swing Thru <kchen>

You can also get them free from sites like creditkarma.com and
creditsesame.com.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:24:01 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Except those aren't actual FICO scores (the ones that hard credit
checks pull), they are other estimated scores.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:24:07 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Which is why they are free.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:24:34 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Credit karma gives transrisk, vantagescore, and some auto insurance
score.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:25:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 3 By 1 Triangle Circulate <kchen>

I'm not sure there's a particularly meaningful difference, though.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:25:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Relocate <kchen>

(Unless there's an actual reason to care.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:26:24 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Well my credit karma score was 100 points higher than the actual score
that experian gave to amex recently.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:27:04 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

I've read some skepticism that the "one true FICO score" that Fair
Isaac sells that is used on mortgage applications is exactly the same
number that you might get from other organizations or in other
contexts (e.g. applying for a car loan). Let me see if I can dig up a
cite.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:27:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Columns Of 3: 2/3 Invert The Column <kchen>

Huh, ok.  (My creditkarma one and my actual one are pretty close.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:27:16 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

myfico gives the actual fico scores from equifax and transunion, but
not experian.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:28:07 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Yeah, the scores between bureaus will differ, sometimes by a lot. I'm
under the impression that they each tweak it a little, as well as
posisbly having different things on their reports for you.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:28:35 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

(Which is why it's a good idea to check your credit report with all of
them if you are considered about anything.)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:29:14 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

For example, experian ranks up to 830, while the others go to 850.
I don't know why.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:30:59 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From:  <neried7>

Anyway those are my recommendatons.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:43:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, okay. This housing app wants a credit report with a credit score,
so I guess AnnualCreditReport.com is insufficient?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:43:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, that doesn't include a credit score, just a credit report

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:44:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:44:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1/2 Reverse Crazy Ah So <kchen>

You can often buy a credit score to go with your free credit report.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:55:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, is it too late to call a realtor? Apparently the number posted on
Craigslist is his cell phone number

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Fri Feb 17 23:55:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

_I_ wouldn't mind getting a call at 9 PM on a Friday, but I'm weird

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:03:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think it would be more productive to call at about 9:30 tomorrow
morning

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:03:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Possibly 10

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:05:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there's no serious difference there

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:06:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

9:30 or 10 AM on a Saturday has a closer resemblence to a realtor's
working hours than 9 PM on a Friday

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:07:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

real people are weird.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:07:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

9:30 AM on a Saturday usually doesn't even exist.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:25:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want svn add -p

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:25:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really I just want TortoiseGit

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:28:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It exists, doesn't it? Sort of?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:28:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes. I'm not sure why I decided I wanted TortoiseSVN + git-svn

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:31:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AUGH I think I fixed my bug

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:35:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and ... should consider leaving work

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 18 00:42:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, no, apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:10:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/toOOT.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:11:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

++

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:20:13 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

That's clever

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:25:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So. Byte-range locks are POSIX _advisory_ locks. Doesn't that mean
they can be done entirely in userspace?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:25:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Provided you have some sort of lock server to talk to and to
coordinate locks

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Feb 18 02:51:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why does DuckDuckGo believe that "AES" stands for "Advanced Electronic
Signature"?

Class: geofft Instance: mozilla-wins-all-the-points
Time: Sat Feb 18 03:01:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2012/02/17/message-to-certificate-authorities-about-subordinate-cas/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 18 04:18:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

why am I awake. -> melatonin -> lights off -> see what happens

Class: geofft Instance: mozilla-wins-all-the-points
Time: Sat Feb 18 09:08:14 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:16:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there any reason for me not to just get a recent-ish "certified
pre-owned" Honda Civic hybrid?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:16:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess the more general version of that is, anyone have opinions on
cars?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:17:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I'd personally probably buy the Consumer Reports car-buying guide...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:17:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: How could you possibly think typing 'import skynet' was a good idea? <eichin>

==rnjacobs
but I've heard good things about the civic hybrid

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:17:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"sounds like effort, can I get that online"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:18:20 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I mean, (i think) the Civic is the US's most popular car, so you're probably
not too far off.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:18:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: In China the radiation effect is always positive, leading to bigger and
better vegetables that will revolutionise agriculture. - Xinhua news agency
 <rnjacobs>

... CR might sell an online version, I haven't looked.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:19:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks like I can get a generic subscription to their website?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:20:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Look at the cost, it may not be worthwhile to go pre-owned.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:20:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I own a Civic Hybrid and have had an excellent experience with it.
100k+ miles and it still runs great.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:20:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Its gas mileage isn't as good as the newer hybrids (you get about 40
mpg with fairly heavy-foot driving) but still better than a traditional
setup.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:20:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Looks like it's $6 for a month, which looks reasonable.  "especially
given the price of the cars in question"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(Mine is a 2003 model, they've probably gotten better since.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:21:00 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Hondas: boringly reliable, generally on the "fun to drive"
side of the scale

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:21:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's also a thing called the Honda Insight?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:23:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Careful, there's an old insight and a new one.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:23:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They're entirely different, but share a name.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:25:34 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Why a Honda Civic Hybrid over a Prius?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:26:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Good question.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:27:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, can I get the type of Prius you can plug in (that ZipCar has one
of) for a reasonable price? Work has electric vehicle parking.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:27:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A fading corridor enlightens your insight.
 <rnjacobs>

I think only the newest Prii are plug-in-hybrid-able.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:28:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: This appears to be a rather large stack of trashy romance novels.
 <rnjacobs>

(Unless you buy a $6k aftermarket kit.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:28:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've driven a Prius and an Insight. I liked the Prius better.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:28:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Insight zipcar rented me was obnoxious in a number of small ways.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:29:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure if I've rented an Insight...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:29:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, there's a hybrid Camry? How is that different from a Prius?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:29:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is like buying computer hardware :-(

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:29:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The Camry is larger.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:30:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I get all "Sandybridge, is that like Noisebridge" when I look at
processors

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:30:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

.... Oh, right, I have driven an Insight. It felt like it was trying to be a
smidge sportier than most other hybrid sedans on the market.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:30:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

The prius is its own weird looking thing.  The hybrid
camry is a camry that happens to be hybrid.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:30:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe yours had a sport package or something?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:30:58 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

(my boss has one, it's a consumately boring car)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:31:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I don't know? It was the Zipcar Iloveyou here in Seattle...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:31:25 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

The prius tells everyone you have a prius. The camry hybrid
is a carmy that is heavier and gets better milage.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:31:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

OK. I don't remember the zipcar being particularly sporty. "It worked"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:31:53 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a grid bug won't hit you when you cross it.
 <rnjacobs>

I did say "smidge" ...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:32:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Except for the part where it doesn't turn the headlights off when you
turn the car off. The cars I learned to drive on did not have this
failure mode. Aaghh.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:32:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I apparently rented Iguanus for... a few hours? when I was
leaving. Which I think was a totally reasonable car

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:32:18 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Intelligence, like Jello, is hard to measure after being thrown against a wall. <eichin>

the camry is huge, yeah.  (My boss drives one,
commuting and cross country and loves it)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:32:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: fliegerabwehrkanone <eichin>

(sorry, was behind - I'm talking about the same guy kcr is :)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:33:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think I have a need for a huge car yet.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:33:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I'm tempted by the Smarts, but it's not rational

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:34:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I hated the Smart that I drove.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:34:30 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Y U USE PERFORCE <paigep>

I test-drove one. It felt like a tin  can.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:34:33 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

The transmission feels like something from communist europe.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:34:47 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Y U USE PERFORCE <paigep>

I really wanted one, because then I could park ANYWHERE, but it was
quite unpleasant to drive.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really can't decide if a Smart is totally the right answer or
totally the wrong answer for a 30+-minute highway commute.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:33 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Y U USE PERFORCE <paigep>

Wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Very wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It seems to be getting dangerously close to "if you get in a
collision, you will have too little mass and lose" territory

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Totally wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ok!

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:35:44 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Y U USE PERFORCE <paigep>

You don't want to drive a Smart on the highway.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:36:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

paigep: zsig++

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:37:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I'm not really sure how to ask KBB which Prii can be plugged in

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:37:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Yes, We Did.  -- www.nasa.gov, 2001-02-18 <eichin>

isn't it both a new option, and an *option*, not the default?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:37:29 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Y U USE PERFORCE <paigep>

I take it you've used Perforce before

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:37:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

My understanding is that in a sufficiently strong collision, Smarts
turn into uncontrollable aircraft.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: doomdeedoom doomdeedoom doom <eichin>

yeah, "starting March 2012 in 15 launch states"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. "So, Josh, where did you say you can get a pilot's license around
here?"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:29 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

BTW, if I were planning to drive that much every day, I
would definitely be getting a sports car.  But we're very different people.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

> uncontrollable
:P

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It might be "priuses", depending on which declension it is. What's the
genitive of prius?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:38:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Prion.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:39:01 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

Given that you might be moving to the city, you might want to figure
out if your apartment will have a place for charging (or whether
there are charging stations you can use (if you're going to get a
plugin hybrid).

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:39:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: what attributes of a sports car do you care about?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:40:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...they actually make charging stations now? Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:40:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A large snake bars your way.
 <rnjacobs>

... I don't remember any 3rd declension nouns ending with -us

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:40:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are three slots at the parking lot at work labeled "electric
vehicles" with power cables coming out of a thing in front of them

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:41:03 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

glasgall: I've seen parking spots which have cables for charging, though
not very many of them.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:41:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's also one at, say, the lot just north of Stata (where ZipCar
has parked a plug-in Prius)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:41:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

maneuverability and feedback*

* road feel. I can only really explain this with examples, and I don't have
  access to a good spanning set right now.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:42:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm pretty ambivalent about the growth of electric car infrastructure.
Electric cars are still cars, I mean.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:43:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I would totally take the Caltrain if there were a way to get to work
from there.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:43:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not criticizing you, just musing in general.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:43:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I'm just saying that our usual ponies like high-speed rail
don't really work

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:43:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I can imagine no way in which this thing could be considered anywhere remotely close to safe. <eichin>

alewife had charging stations ~twenty years ago :-)
but I noticed recently that it looks like they've been refurbed...

California has aggressively built out charging stations (at Home
Depots and the like) but not quite enough to actually matter

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:44:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

California is also aggressively car-infrastructured like whoa already,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:51:45 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Furby vs. Tribble -- Deathmatch <eichin>

California has the advantage that you can't really
build *tall* things, so you have to sprawl anyway, so you might as
well have enough parking :-)

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:53:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You could fit entire small towns in some of the BART parking lots I
saw out there.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 15:57:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

If your goal is to commute it bay area traffic, consider
luxury cars with self driving features

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:02:25 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I'm seeing Smarts get a lot of flak for highway driving, so I
should chime in and say I had no problem driving one to school by
highway 20 mins away relatively often in high school

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:02:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I also find it hugely fun to drive because it's so light and therefore
the accelerator is really zippy

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:04:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My memory of Washington drivers is that they are less insane than Bay
Area drivers

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:04:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that in lighter moments you could think of ways to pass a stone.
 <rnjacobs>

They still tailgate like woah

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:04:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Did I mention I got right-passed by a police car who was annoyed at me
going only slightly over the speed limit, the other day?)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:04:37 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I found both DC and Bay Area drivers prety easy.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:05:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Yeah, Washington drivers tailgate but are otherwise passive, almost
annoyingly so

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:06:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

In terms of Smart car safety, they certainly lose on total mass, but
not on structural integrity. They don't crumple at all - in fact,
their wheelbase is short enough that in a side-on collision they won't
fold in the middle (unlike normal-side cars) but will just get pushed
sideways by the axles

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:06:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8, in which after a
70mph-to-0 collision with a concrete wall, the steel frame is in such
good shape that the door still works

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:08:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Prius you can plug in _also_ takes gas, right? So it's useful for
me even if I can't plug it in at home?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:08:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Yes, it's not a Leaf

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:09:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i Tesla

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:09:58 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

I've also had a very good experience with my parents' Leaf, but you
definitely don't want to venture more than 30 miles away from home on
a full 'tank'

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:09:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

re: the Smart: I will note the mounting body of evidence that the safest you
can be in a car is 1- Afraid everyone's going to accidentally kill you and 2-
Everyone else afraid they're going to accidentally kill you.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:11:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:11:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Glöm inte sista tåget! <eichin>

yeah, it's a "plug-in *hybrid*"
http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:11:32 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

Right; there's no false sense of security in a Smart, at least not the way I
see SUV owners talk about how safe their enormous SUV's are as though
enormous quantities of metal will save them without regard to
buckling, rollover, etc. There's no hiding the fact that you're very
very close to the road and the world around you in a Smart

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:14:10 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

starking: I had a 2003 honda civic hybrid. the batteries give out at
100k miles and it's a $3k repair bill.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:15:54 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

Now that I have a 2004 Prius, I like the Prius much better. better gas
mileage, more room.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:16:36 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

the 2004 prius gets 48+ mpg with good driving. the 2003 civic gets 42
mpg with good driving.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:16:59 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

also, significantly better acceleration on the 2004 prius.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:17:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh wait, I missed that the Prius plug-in doesn't exist yet and ZipCar
is piloting them. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:17:43 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

yeah, it doesn't exist except aftermarket, and even if you could get
one it would be $33k+

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:17:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do I buy a ... paper copy of Consumer Reports? Do I want to find a
bookstore or something?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:17:58 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

one thing you might be interested in is a Civic GX though.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:18:31 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

the range is not fantastic (~160 miles), but it gets gallon for gallon
about same mileage as a conventional civic, and the natural gas burns
cleaner and costs half as much.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:18:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Where.... do you buy CNG

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:19:10 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/locator/stations/

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:19:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My rental takes FlexFuel and I've only seen like one gas station that
offers it.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:20:03 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

cheap e70 is only due to poor policy decisions in Washington to
subsidize ethanol. not worth counting on in medium-long term.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:21:40 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

the good news about the gx is it qualifies for a single occupant HOV
sticker though.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:22:34 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

there isn't any such program here in MA, and I'm not a daily commuter,
so that's why I gave it a pass (that plus the "160 miles" thing, given
I regularly take 200 mile trips to CT once every other month...)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:22:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's no HOV lane on the 101, so I don't know that I care.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:24:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o you can refuel it out of the gas that goes into your gas stove?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:26:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Jaguar Crown Victoria <eichin>

hmm, looks like all of the stations in MA are unmanned keycard-access

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:27:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This locater thing is awesome, thanks. Although it shows there are no
electric garages near where we're looking for apartments :(

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:27:38 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

not directly, no - it requires compression, and home natural gas is
not pressurized enoug.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:30:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Consumer reports online has all the same information in a
terrible website.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:31:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I have to remember to cancel it in a month

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:33:34 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

You could get it from a library and photocopy the parts you
want. It's like artisinal piracy.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:36:52 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I've always thought of Boston traffic as Brownian motion with
evil intent. -- Don Coolidge coolidge@speaker.sgi.com <eichin>

"papertorrent"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:37:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That'd be if you copied one page from each library branch.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:38:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I have done this w/r/t cancel in a month
Just set a Google Calendar reminder for it, and youll do fine.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.loan.application.q
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:44:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Sys.WebForms.PageRequestManagerServerErrorException: An unknown error
occurred while processing the request on the server. The status code
returned from the server was: 0"

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.loan.application.q
Time: Sat Feb 18 16:45:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think I find the name of the exception more disturbing than the fact of
the exception.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Sat Feb 18 20:02:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. argh
2. Why does Gmaps insist that I live at Event Horizon?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 21:37:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, I don't think the charging stations at work are necessarily
publicly available, so you should look into that before actually buying
something

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Feb 18 23:58:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. Point

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Feb 19 00:04:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/s2Zug.png

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Feb 19 00:05:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

ahhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 05:27:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No seriously, why am I awake?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Feb 19 15:06:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

aaargh I have plots I should deal with

Class: geofft Instance: debian.mq
Time: Sun Feb 19 15:28:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Let's see if, once again, we can make a 'a summary' thread an order
of magnitude larger than the original thread."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:06:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wish I knew what state I was in.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:07:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think Massachusetts, but I'm not sure.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:08:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe Louisiana?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:09:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think MITFCU believes that I am currently living in the SIPB
office, have been living there for 1.5 years, pay $600/month rent, and
commute to work in California.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:09:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For values of "the SIPB office" that may include "ET"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:11:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seriously, what the crap is my current address.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:11:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

LA

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:11:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

er, you mean at hua?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:13:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm pretty sure no financial-related thing believes I'm there. I'm
just not sure where they believe I actually am

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:14:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I am hopeful that by time my friends' kids are graduating college,
our society will have solved this problem, but we'll see.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:14:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

ah, yeah ...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:14:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I just don't undestand why my SSN is _insufficient_ to uniquely
identify me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

because an SSN is theifable?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat. identity verification believes I opened a mortgage in October
2008

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Spin The Top <kchen>

There's probably a "None of the above" option.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Is there a "none of the above" option?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (L) Swing Along <kchen>

That option is frequently the correct one.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:16:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes. But still, wat

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:17:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Online Delivery Unavailable - Mail in Request
We're sorry, for your protection we are unable to deliver your Equifax
Free Annual Credit Report online."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:17:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yeah, sorry, you're basically just doomed to be a second-class
citizen until you have a stable address and a non-credit-card loan.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:17:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Swing Thru & Roll <kchen>

There's an automated phone number that you can call to make it work,
but it's a lot more effort than online.  Also, TransUnion has
frequently rejected my online effors in the past, so if you're going
to try another one online, you may want to try Experian next, rather
than TransUnion.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:18:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

> I just don't undestand why my SSN is _insufficient_ to uniquely
> identify me

Because people are idiots.
http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/misused.html

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:18:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, they like to make the questions stupidly hard so you have to pay them for
your credit report

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:19:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dwilson: ++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:19:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This was Equifax. I apparently need to _mail in_ a request.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Turn To A Line & Roll <kchen>

You can call a phone number for annualcreditreport.com rather than
having to mail in to Equifax if you'd prefer.  Let me see if I can
find it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:20:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dixie Grand <kchen>

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/order?phone

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:20:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

I have been successful with the phone number when I've been denied
online.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:20:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha, here
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/order?phone

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:21:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha! TransUnion has some idea that I might be me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:22:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, here we go. I live at:
77 MASSACHUSETTS AV W2
CAMBRIDGE, MA 02139

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:22:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I didn't realize I moved to McCormick"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:25:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

WTF, I get a 7-day free trial of my credit score?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:25:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What does that even mean

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:26:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Wheel Thru <kchen>

Sounds like a product where you can constantly check your score
whenever you feel like it, and the trial is limited to 7 days.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:26:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

==kchen

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:27:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"In the event you purchase a product that includes Credit Lock, you
acknowledge that some of the features of Credit Lock may be available
to you under the laws of certain states."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:28:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Man, I am totally putting this in my next license agreement. "This
software is licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public
License, version 2 or (at your option) any later version. You
acknowledge that some of the features of this software may be
available to you under the laws of certain states."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:29:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also a section labeled "Policy Regarding Children".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:30:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

FWIW, I ended up mailing in the form to get mine. It's not that big a
hassle.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:30:37 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "It will make kittens if you ask nicely." <pquimby>

"may be available" ???

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:31:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, but I want my credit report, like, today.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:31:04 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Presumably they are, but they don't want to explicitly admit that, or
say which ones.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:32:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also there is some irony in a credit reporting company wanting my
credit card number. "Don't you already have that"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:33:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat, why can't my street address have a hyphen

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:36:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoo! 708 C. Whatever that is.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:36:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the crap does this have a "share on Facebook" button under it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:36:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Fan The Top <kchen>

I mean, you just shared it with zephyr, so sharing with Facebook is
kind of the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:36:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"but still"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:41:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

cosign a lease
cosine a lease

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:42:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Experian says, "You may have opened a mortgage loan in or around July
1999. Please select the dollar amount range in which your monthly
mortgage payment falls."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 17:42:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear Mr. Experian, did you see that part where I just typed in my date
of birth. How exactly do you think anyone who stole my identity would
be inclined to believe I opened a mortgage when I was ten.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:08:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 mosh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:08:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I can't seem to get it to work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:08:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Currently routing packets through Asheesh's laptop, since he has some
sort of client to VPN over DNS on this sketchy wireless network

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:08:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and the reliability sucks but mosh makes it usable

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:09:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I get a flood of "CryptoException: Bad alignment"s when I look at stderr
on the server side.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:22:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now if only we had mosh for HTTP...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:48:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't believe that openssl base64 | cut-and-paste to mosh | openssl
base64 -d is _actually_ better at filetransfer than scp, but it seems
to be.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:51:03 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a spotted dragon is the ultimate shape changer.
 <rnjacobs>

what's this mosh thing? I couldn't find a link on cursory googling.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:52:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

https://github.com/keithw/mosh/blob/master/README

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 19:55:22 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

you might try scp with a controlmaster.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:05:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah, I keep meaning to set this up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:06:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rnjacobs:
git clone github.com:keithw/mosh
cd mosh
make
./mosh linerva.mit.edu ./mosh-client 'athrun mosh_project mosh-server'

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:09:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I wonder if it's not working for me because the two ends are different
bitness. I really need to reinstall my VM as amd64...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:10:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"ask -c keithw"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:10:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, it's on my list of plans. Sorry for cluttering your class.

Class: geofft Instance: housing.ttants
Time: Sun Feb 19 20:42:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"clean, responsible, non-smokers without pet"
"clean, responsible, non-smokers without pot"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:30:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, "Carfax" is both the name of a thing to check vehicle records
and Dracula's hometown?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:31:33 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

It is the first thing. It is not Dracula's hometown, it is
his UK residence.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:32:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, saying "credit report" on Twitter was a mistake

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:32:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have all the dumb followers

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:32:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

hahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:32:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I'm so sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:33:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Tweeting about baby stuff does the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:33:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Target Maternity Center (@creepytargetovermind) is now following you!

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:34:44 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

I am sad that @creepytargetovermind doesn't seem to exist

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:35:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Breast feeding enthusiasts are a force to be reconned with
on the internet. Not to mention mommy bloggers and upstart
diapers.com clones.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:35:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sadly, Twitter usernames, like MySQL usernames, are limited to 16
characters

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:43:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> HUA

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Feb 19 21:55:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Maybe I don't need to get one of those Twitter things after all"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Feb 20 03:35:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

erikchen: "Are you a kernel hacker?"
kyoki: "No."
erikchen: "It's easy. All you have to do is never shower, and grow a
  beard, and--"
kyoki: "I'm not white. Or male."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Feb 20 03:38:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, had a conversation with kyoki claiming that rms was adorable.
After a little conversation, we determined she was actually talking
about rtm.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Feb 20 03:38:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was a little uncomfortable there.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Feb 20 03:38:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

who knows, maybe I just have really bad taste in men

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon Feb 20 03:39:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rtm is _way_ better taste than rms

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Feb 20 14:41:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Adele has six Grammies (she won some music awards)
Adele has six grammies (her parents' fathers are polygamous)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Feb 20 14:43:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

aDeLe hAs s1x gr@mm1es (we are holding her hostage until we get them)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 21:22:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(tentative) victory!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 21:22:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

whoo!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 21:28:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

asheesh, price, and I are, if all goes well, signing a lease tomorrow
for a 5BR that's more or less in the Mission. (We're still looking
for plausible housemates; Asheesh has some folks he knows that are
likely, but if there's anyone who's looking for a place and wants
cool roommates, let me know of them)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 21:51:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

On the subject of timing: http://bit.ly/yXJc3S

("Place Of Mine takes on Padmapper by focusing on collaborative house
hunting")

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 21:54:17 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

I like the Padmapper team photos, http://www.padmapper.com/#team

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:17:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

zomg agreed

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:40:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

broder: Wow, I was just like "hm, I would so write this if I were
more competent at webdev" the other day

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:41:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We coordinated via a gdoc of unstructured text, which was...
adequate but suboptimal

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:42:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I totally told some random couple at a Mission taqueria about
Padmapper... I'm surprised as few people have heard about it as seems
to be the case, although admittedly I didn't hear about it immediately
when I started looking (in October)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:44:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I wonder if padmapper has less stale listings now. I tried using it in
Boston once, and every listing was sold at least a month before I saw
it.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:45:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't actually think Padmapper has done a remotely good job of
developing mindshare

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:46:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

The one time I tried, my recollection of padmapper was "This is a
cute demo that is not actually really a usable product"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:46:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

But I forget what specifically gave me that conclusion.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:47:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Padmapper worked quite fine for us.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:50:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think Asheesh was periodically checking actual Craiglist; I only
looked at Padmapper for the city (though I'd been looking at
Craigslist for the peninsula) and didn't feel like I wasn't seeing on
there anything that Asheesh hadn't found (that was worth looking at)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:52:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I bet it's entirely possible it works in sfbay and has not been
debugged elsewhere. :)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 22:52:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

True.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 23:04:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I thinkpadmapper wasn't that useful.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 23:04:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

like myspacebar

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 23:05:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow, I guess maybe some will think that's a pun on 'myspace'! No, it's
just a remark on my bad typing!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 23:06:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Everyone's like "oooh a web app can solve your problems" and I'm like
"screw you I hate web apps I mean, thank you for your recommendation"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Mon Feb 20 23:18:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

++ to all of the last 4 zephyrs

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 00:19:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the best soy latte that you've ever had and me!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:13:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, I hope they make prints of panel 2 of today's QC

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:19:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should consider eating something...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:20:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The hotel-thing I checked into yesterday night has a fridge and
mini-kitcheny-thing, but I haven't bothered putting anything in it
and it's not clear it's worth getting anything if I'm moving to a
real place in like two or three days

(Although, on principle, it's totally awesome that they have plates
and pans and such here for you to use)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:21:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Pay someone on taskrabbit to bring you food from somewhere that is
open 24/7 ?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:22:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why would I do that? I can drive

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:22:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this an extended stay hotel, or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:22:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I realize my time is theoretically worth more now that I have a Real
Job, but it's not worth _that much_ more, especially when the
opportunity cost is a few stupid links on the interwebs not read"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:23:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Are there convenience stores nearby? Does your hotel have vending
machines?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:24:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I'm currently at the Extended Stay in Belmont (i.e., right next
to work), which is $90/night for a week or more, and the cheapest
thing I've been able to find in the general class of hotels in like
the entire area between SF and like Mountain View (with the exception
of one or two sketchy airport hotels that charge for parking and such)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:25:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are multiple 24-hour drivethroughs near work (I, uh, have had
reason to figure out which ones exist), so I'm sure I can find
something. Hm.

Actually, on second thought if I can find frozen food, I can always
put some at work tomorrow, which I've been meaning to do

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:26:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Finding a supermarket and stocking up on instant meals might be a good
move.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:27:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

buy 20kg of rice!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:27:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Fitts's Law: The time to acquire a target is a function of the distance to and size of the target. <eichin>

On my trip to vancouver (or rather, the scenic
areas north of there) I was surprised that one of the cheaper hotels
Laura found for us was an underutilized "business suites" place - had
a separate living room, combined kitchen/dining room with pots and
pans and utensils and separate teapot and coffee makers :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:28:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... oh, that says "Hiller St", not "Hitler St".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:28:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Whoa, you're in Belmont. That is so weird.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:29:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, honestly, I think even the nightly rate here is cheaper than
most other things I've seen. Admittedly it doesn't have free
poor-quality continental breakfast that will leave you hungry in
thirty minutes, or maids who will make your bed and rearrange
everything in strange ways and then guilt you into leaving tips every
day.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:30:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ha

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:32:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. Am I, like, supposed to tip the maids? 'cause I've never done
that...

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:33:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think you are in general. But the Google Hotel^W^WHotel Avante in
Mountain View does this thing where they leave handwritten notes
saying "Hi $name, hope you enjoy your stay" or so, which was cute the
first day and guilt-trippy after that

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:34:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... dear Google Maps, there are multiple reasons why "Haight Ashbury
Tattoo and Piercing" is not a reasonable search result for "24-hour
grocery near extended stay, belmont, ca"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:35:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Namely,
1. It's not 24-hour
2. It's not a grocery
3. It's not anywhere near Belmont
4. wat

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:35:45 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

A buck or two a night is traditional.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:38:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

These are the best reviews:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=10124997718859488207

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 02:47:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sides Pass The Ocean <kchen>

My impression is that it's less obligatory than other kinds of tips.
I tend not to, quite possibly because my family never did.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 08:14:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

> I'm currently at the Extended Stay in Belmont
<3 that hotel.  That was Ksplice's preferred hotel in the area, so
I've stayed there a half dozen times (so has Waseem).

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 09:51:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

We certainly have stayed there a lot.
I'm not sure I'd say I "<3" it.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 09:51:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

It's a totally fine hotel, and great if you're on a budget, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 10:17:33 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

Try the Safeway on the corner of Ralston and El Camino?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 10:24:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

==
that's close by, and the internet suggests it's 24h
it's a fairly reasonable grocery store
[FYI, when I worked at Oracle, I lived in Belmont maybe 1-2 miles west
of you]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 10:26:54 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Trolling for fun and profit <aatharuv>

Since you're on the other side of 101, there's also a Nob Hill
grocery in Redwood Shores, though I'm not sure whether that's 24/7,
and that might be farther away.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d2
Time: Tue Feb 21 10:30:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

Nob Hill does have the virtue of being the only area retailer I could
find that actually had Bacon Salt in stock

Class: geofft Instance: status.d2
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:11:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"virtue"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:11:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Safeway's website implied they closed at 8.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:12:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can see pre-acquisition Ksplice <3ing this place, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:12:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It has a very Shaw's gift card feel to it

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:13:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Yeah, ==, when traveling for Oracle I've stayed in the Sofitel or the
Four Seasons Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:14:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

I was amused when my bathrooom at the Four Seasons was roughly 2x the
size of my bedroom at 48 Pearl.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:14:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

wait, really?  The store, or just the pharmacy?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 11:22:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Iunno? "click the link from Google Maps"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:32:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Lease signed.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:32:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "people got their MCAT scores back today, hence -> drinking" - dmariel <pbaranay>

It's a trap! I mean, congratulations!

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:33:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

SF has rent control, it's not thaaat much of a trap.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:33:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

is sf blanket rent controlled?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:33:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

or just certain leases? In NY, it depends on the building.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:34:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"and sometimes the unit"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:34:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think it depends on the type of building, but not the area.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:34:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or maybe everything has some baseline rent control, i.e., if it's the
same tenants then rent can't be raised past inflation, and some
buildings have that apply even if it's different tenants?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:34:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

In NY, a good amount of it is "did the government have a hand in
subsidizing your housing?" because then you either need to rent
stabilize it or have 80/20 split (which seems unpopular and somewhat
understandably)

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Here, http://www.sftu.org/ should answer your questions

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

baseline rent control for everything is novel

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What's the vacancy rate in SF like?

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "you can't have your code and eat it too" - catherio <pbaranay>

..I totally misparsed that as stfu.org at first.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:43 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

tooootally read that as "stfu.org"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:35:52 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

and thought you were being like "stop asking me dumb questions"

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:36:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

yeah! I thought that, too. And was hurt a little.

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "non-commital relationship with a +10 confusion modifier." - axs <pbaranay>

==

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:36:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm...I think our house is actually not covered by rent control, but
I'm not sure

Class: geofft Instance: housing
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:38:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, some places have rent control, and the rent control stays around until all
of the tenants who were there under the rent control leave

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:53:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

MITFCU approved my loan! (with my dad as guarantor) I am winning at
life today.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:54:44 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

yay, congrats!

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:54:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, I will be winning at life once I have more than $1100 in
the bank. "details"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:56:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... and that's not even counting pending charges for car rental and
hotel, which are admittedly against the credit card, but put that into
the realm of "hm, is that still net positive"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:59:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is genetic non-discrimination one of those crazy California hippie
laws or something?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:59:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also why does OWA suck

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 16:59:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

2007 or 2010

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:00:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

To ask the question is to answer it, surely.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:00:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Web Access", not "Web App", so 2007?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:00:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, it's '07

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:00:27 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Haha, you're screwed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:08:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Pregnancy disability leave is a type of disability leave"

i,i Take that Catholic bishops, pregnancy _is_ a disease!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:15:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Indeed -- that's why the virgin birth is celebrated so!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:15:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(Is "work" really the right instance for this?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:16:59 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

Except you can be denied accommodations prior to going on maternity
disability leave, and thus fired for failing to do your job.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:17:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, so, a literal reading of this implies that if you take two hours
to go vote, the Company will try to have a job for you when you get
back but may not.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:17:41 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

yes, the world is completely screwed up. your company is obligated to
provide maternity leave, but is not obligated to eliminate
responsibilities like heavy lifting, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:20:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Except insofar as the company cares about not being a bag of dicks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:20:49 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

relying on companies to not be dicks, especially when it's in their
economic interest to fire you so they won't have to provide you with
leave later...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:22:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i fidickiary responsibility to shareholders

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:36:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay! paycheck.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 17:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Did you decide what you're getting?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:02:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not entirely. "a hybrid, I paid too much for gas"

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:03:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I'm not convinced the E85 is performing as well as Real Gas, but
I'm not sure I'm a competent enough driver to determine conclusively
that it's not PEBWAC

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:03:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I wasn't convinced enough about hybrids being good enough yet, especially
considering what I could afford.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:03:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

maybe in five years

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:04:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Define "good enough"?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:05:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

fuel efficiency

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:07:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I would've liked a hybrid, but they're hard to find right now because
they're all made in Japan (at least Honda's), and the starting price is
pretty significant.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:08:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

According to one of my coworkers, you only start to see the cost savings
after owning the car for several years.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:08:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think that depends on the length of the commute

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:08:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

well, and the kind of traffic, I imagine

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:09:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

what, there's an Accord coupe.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:10:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a ~40-minute commute in good highway traffic (and like two
minutes to the highway on each side). Which I guess is not city
driving, but should still be noticeable

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:10:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

For reference, I spent...$3000 on gas last year. My car gets between 21
and 23 mpg

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:10:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> ~40-minute commute [in a car]

...ouch.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:11:35 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Hey! No homophones on -c wings! You Are Welcome Hear! - geofft <wings>

That was my commute to high school...

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:11:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Anyway, for what it's worth, I've been pretty happy with the Civic LX I
got in late December, and it's also powerful enough to get me out of the
way of the angry F-250 driving tailgaters you find here.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:12:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm. The Civic Hybrid isn't really an interesting improvement on the
non-Hybrids, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:12:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

not terribly much, but the non-Hybrid Civic is also pretty decent in terms
of mileage.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:13:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks like I've spent like $120 on gas in two weeks of this rental
car, which is roughly broder's order of magnitude. Admittedly this
car is averaging like 20 mpg

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:13:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

And, at least for Honda, it'll be hard to find new hybrids because they're
made in Japan, and their Japanese factories are still recovering from the
earthquake. I imagine Toyota is in a similar situation.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:14:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Geoff: What are you renting?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh, you mentioned FlexFuel. bleh, American cars.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:15:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yes. a Chrysler 200

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:15:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You could get the Chevy Volt if you don't mind it catching on fire.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:17:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"If I want electricity that can catch things on fire, I hear there's a
car company out here that decided to name itself after Tesla"

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:17:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You should totally get a Tesla Roadster!

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:17:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

dooooooo it!

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:17:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Fisker Karma

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:18:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did you see the part where, modulo this piece of paper on my desk, I
have approximately $0?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:18:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I saw one in the parking lot at work the other day. It's actually really
nice.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:18:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"If you know of any used Tesla Roadsters..."

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:19:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

A used roaster is still more than my salary

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:19:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, why are people entertaining the troll?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:19:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, how expensive are they?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:19:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Because the line between asshole and troll is thin

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:20:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, wrong! On the internet!

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:20:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I tend to not draw a distinction.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:20:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, I'm more amused by his belief that if he goes to Debian he won't
see exactly the same crap on the desktop

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:20:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, I don't think he will at the moment

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:21:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

At least not this particular crap

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:21:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really? Is there a reason y'all aren't putting it into Debian? It
seems totally sane

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:22:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

NetworkManager is maintained separately in Debian and Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:23:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The button to buy a Roadster goes to buying a Model S. Which is $50K,
which is still well into "intractable" territory

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:24:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I really hope your yearly salary is above that, given you're in
california. That doesn't make it tractable.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:24:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, Debian hasn't turned on the builtin dnsmasq support

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:25:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The gene pool could use a little chlorine. <eichin>

the model X was only just announced, and the
roadster was closer to 100k

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 18:59:03 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

get a used hybrid. they're 50% off msrp by the time they're ~5 years
old.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:00:56 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

agreed with what people said about non-hybrid civics and hybrid civics
getting similar highway MPG. however, non-hybrid civics get 30 mpg on
city driving and hybrid civics get 40

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:01:14 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

so it depends whether geofft will be commuting during 101 is a parking
lot hours or not.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:02:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

hybrids are only supposed to really help in stop-and-go traffic.
Which is to say rush hour :p

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:15:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want vim keyword autocompletion that searches the active browser
tab for keywords

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:16:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

c.f. "focus follows mind"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:44:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The sun is a miasma of incandescent plasma!

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:46:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Kanye
Keone

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:47:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Uh.
TortoiseSVN didn't add a newline before inserting a conflict marker...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 19:48:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It's like this software was intended to work on UNIX and had a
crappy Windows GUI as an afterthought"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:05:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

aaaaaaaaugh your tab completion is the stupidest thing ever aughgh

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:06:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Wait, there's tab completion in Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:07:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes? It's been there since like XP at least, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:07:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

like, in cmd.exe?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:07:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:08:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's not tab completion, that's "let's iterate through all files
that start with the first letter or so of what you typed"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:09:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a tin of wraith meat is a rare dining experience.
 <rnjacobs>

.... It completes as much as it can, and rather than being like bash and
telling you "dunno, here's a list", it says "do you want the first one?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:09:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you hit tab again, it gives you the second. If you hit shift-tab,
it goes back

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 20:10:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But the annoying thing is that it _erases the rest of the line_ if
your cursor is not at the end

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:04:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am remarkably good at forgetting my full-screen VM's fourth wall

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:05:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"dammit my laptop just blue-screened. ... wait, my laptop runs Linux"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there some convenient timing-related excuse for me to be in Boston
some weekend in mid-March or so?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:30 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Oh, well, if Piper gives the idea *four* pluses, I guess I have to do it... - pbaranay <wings>

Spring break?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:40 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Zipline from a plane onto a horse! - geofft <wings>

Though that might be... the opposite of what you want...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:42 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

St Patrick's Day?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:44 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

BPW?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:41:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

geofft, you should come to Vegas with us for St. Patty's Day!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:42:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

(weren't you looking for an excuse to go to vegas?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:42:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Libreplanet!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:42:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Can I interest you in picking up
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/fuo/2836737249.html en route to the
city...?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:43:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Oh wow, that's basically as far south as San Jose. Geography fail on
my part.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:45:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Then no, but you reminded me to check SUpost for shiny things.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Feb 21 21:45:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which... contains a post starting out "I will return back my
homeland."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Feb 21 22:04:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Even if I can't sleep at the apartment, it'd be cool to work there,
even with an extremely makeshift setup.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 22:42:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Windows 8 has slide-to-unlock on the desktop? wat

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 21 22:42:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like they went "we should copy Apple's design aesthetic!" and
something went very, very wrong

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 21 22:52:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

git cloned the stuff I want to look at. -> dinner -> SF

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 22 01:17:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Veer Right <kchen>

The beginning of March has the Tech Squares weekend, although that's
not really mid-March.  (It's apparently not too late to sign up.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:27:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My ability to be incompetent in wildly successful ways never ceases
to amaze me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:30:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was... slightly too sleepy to really be driving, so I took the
on-ramp back onto the interstate after getting off the interstate. I
took the next exit, and for some brilliant reason despite my hotel
being on the other side of 101, I went "I know, I'll go up to El
Camino and go that way". I completely missed El Camino, drove through
an absurdly hilly residential area, skipped a useful highway, ended
up on some strange college campus, took some more wrong turns, and
ended up finding the 24-hour Safeway previously discussed at this
instance, and going in the direction of my hotel on the road I had
tried to take an exit onto.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:32:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Admittedly I pulled up my car's GPS at some point, but as far as I
could tell the GPS has no way to indicate which way is north, so I'm
not sure it was particularly helpful. I guess it brought me to big
roads instead of dead ends

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:39:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Bitches love the interrobang!" - jesseaj <pbaranay>

> the GPS has no way to indicate which way is north

....I refuse to believe your GPS is *that* crappy.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:39:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I wonder if there are any scripts that can be used to crash or root Cathy." - ismith <pbaranay>

Most likely it was stuck in the mode that made the direction you were
pointing be oriented as the top of the screen.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:41:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right. And I guess the car itself tells you a semicardinal direction.

But it's not like I could much reconfigure the GPS while driving.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:42:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "DAMN YOU, SUSPENSE-BOY." - ismith <pbaranay>

I hear you can pull off of roads onto these things called "shoulders."
Just a rumor, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:43:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In dense residential ridiculously hilly areas, that involves finding a
parking lot or hoping that people don't mind you pulling up into their
driveway.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 04:49:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

At one in the morning, that's what your hazard lights are for.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 13:35:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, is it Ash Wednesday or something?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 13:35:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"wasn't it just Christmas"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 13:38:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"yes, it was"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 22 13:51:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"illegal, and worse, awkward"
(as in "killed, or worse, expelled")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 22 15:25:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I get, like, a book or something?

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Wed Feb 22 15:27:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess this isn't actually about Windows and just something I
associate more with Windows shops in general, but I've never read
_Code Complete_, should I?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Wed Feb 22 15:50:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, /me messages are idiotic in the protocol encoding

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Wed Feb 22 15:51:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Extremely so.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Wed Feb 22 15:52:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Done with my ten seconds of caring about why the zsig on /me messages
in BarnOwl::Module::IRC isn't correct. (I'm sure I cared about this a
few years back and decided it was too dumb to try to fix then, too)

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:18:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't understand the relationship between SNMP OIDs and LDAP OIDs
and... does anything else use OIDs?

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:18:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ASN.1/BER.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:19:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I am more confused now

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:20:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ASN.1 does that.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:20:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although, now that you mention it, SSL?

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:20:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Right, because of DER-encoded certs.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:20:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"LDAP is defined in terms of ASN.1 and transmitted using BER." Wait
really? TIL and I have been using LDAP for how many years

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:21:50 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

GSSAPI uses OIDs.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:22:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now I am reading about the OSI protocol suite and my brain is melting

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:22:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"The OSI protocol suite tends to have that effect"

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:22:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Does “SNMP OID” make any more sense than “linerva account”?  It’s all
just one OID namespace.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:23:15 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's one of those telephone-culture things I wish hadn't been invented
or hadn't strayed out of the telephone standards world.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:23:29 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Yeah, it's all the same namespace.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:23:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Happily, OSI lost and everyone won.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:23:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

At least, everyone but the telcos.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:24:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

andersk: I mean, I don't really understand why SNMP and LDAP share the
same namespace. It's like a comparison between, like, "linerva
account" and "gamertag"

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:24:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can you use OIDs intended for one with the other?

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:24:24 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Well, except that X.509 has survived.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:24:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's just the one ASN.1 OID namespace.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:25:13 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

ASN.1 has an OBJECT IDENTIFIER type, but I'm not sure that was the
origin of OIDs.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:25:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe I'm the confused one, then.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:26:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, like... say I have an OID like, oh, 1.2.840.113554.4.2.2.1
("scriptsVhost"). It's just an LDAP schema, as far as I know. Can I
use 1.2.840.113554.4.2.2.1 with SNMP in any way? "or GSSAPI?"

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:26:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Wikipedia says " Structurally, an OID consists of a node in a
hierarchically-assigned namespace, formally defined using the ITU-T's
ASN.1 standard"

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:14 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Looking over X.660 a bit, I think you're right, OIDs are a product of
ASN.1.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, I just found X.660.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Or maybe a better analogy is how files and directories share the
same filesystem namespace.  You can basically never use one in place
of the other, but it’s still convenient to be able to put them in the
same place.)

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I wish I hadn't.)

Class: geofft Instance: oid.d
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.500#The_relationship_of_the_X.500_Directory_and_X.509v3_digital_certificates

This thing needs, like, citation needed, original research, and
non-encyclopedic essay tags. "Am I missing any?"

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:28:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... but directories contain files.

Class: geofft Instance: oid.d
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:29:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> X.500
Run away screaming now while you still can.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:29:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is more like putting D-Bus names and files/directories in the
same namespace. The hierarchies don't interact, right?

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:29:38 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

So... web.mit.edu is a domain name.  It names a host which runs a web
server.  You could try to ssh to it but it won't work.  Using
1.2.840.113554.4.2.2.1 in an SNMP query would probably fail for
similar reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:29:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess, but you can imagine a web.mit.edu that does support ssh and
web

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:30:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is it possible to construct an OID that can be used by multiple
OID-using things?

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:30:38 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I guess a better example would be trying to ssh to
_kerberos._udp.athena.mit.edu.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:30:54 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Or to geofft.passwd.ns.athena.mit.edu.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:31:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, more believable.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:31:21 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There's no reason a single OID couldn't be useful in several different
protocols.  A good example is OIDs which name hash algorithms.

Class: geofft Instance: oid
Time: Wed Feb 22 16:49:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Geoff, consider, e.g., Java package naming --- there's no actual link
to DNS (you can't, like, look up the package name in DNS, connect to
that IP, and download the .class files), but it's convenient to use
the same hierarchy so you can easily avoid naming conflicts. I feel
like there's a similar advantage to using the same OID namespace for
SNMP and LDAP --- if SIPB (somehow...) decides to... define a new
SNMP command? they already have a chunk of OID space to use for it,
because they grabbed some when they needed it for LDAP.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 22 17:09:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

augh people do { ... if (...) break; ... } while (0) is not actually
superior to goto

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Feb 22 17:10:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Are you reading macro expansion?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 22 17:11:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 22 17:53:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woah, there's a 'reg' command

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:12:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

2(a)(ii) in this prevents me from fixing minor bugs in WinDDK samples
and pushing it to github, right? :(
http://www.scribd.com/doc/60718154/License

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:37:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:37:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I ran screen -dr simultaneously from two computers and now the screen
is attached on both

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:37:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

AWESOME

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:37:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"if I wanted -x, I would have said -x"

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:38:56 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: There but for the grace of you go I. - Paul Simon
 <rnjacobs>

"Hey, look at that locking"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.stripe-ctf.prnf
Time: Wed Feb 22 18:54:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, at some point I should ask Nickolai if he's okay putting
the public 858 repos on Github or somesuch with a reasonable license
(to get more visibility for the labs than just the class website)

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:06:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

test

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:06:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh good, I have a .zephyr.vars

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:06:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Chewing gum and baling wire.
 <rnjacobs>

...

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:07:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ finger geofft
Login: geofft                           Name: magikarp

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:07:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Let's put that back"

Class: geofft Instance: xvm.etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:35:45 2012 Host: GREAT-TYPHOON.MIT.EDU
From: Mwahahahahahaha <pweaver>

ok

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:58:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Today is pretty, if you live in Boston you should move

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:58:59 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

Boston was pretty nice today, too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:57:40 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Yeah, it was like 60 almost.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:59:18 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

It's really been undermining the "you should move to
somewhere with nicer weather" thing this year.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:59:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It was 70 and sunny here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:59:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I think today was nicer than usual for SF

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 19:59:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

especially around this time

Class: geofft Instance: test
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:01:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yay re: magikarp

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:01:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Agreed re: SF being great

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:02:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Today is pretty, if you know what I mean, comma-splicey.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:05:09 2012 Host: 18.208.1.237
From: 3 167 2654609 <cesium>

KommaSplice: Semicolons are Obsolete

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:46:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really, really do not understand INF files

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:49:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's etherpad.mit.edu running in terms of software?

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:51:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Who knows

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:52:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The original public code drop on Karmic, looks like.

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:54:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Y'all should switch to etherpad lite. And, like, lucid or some other
supported distro...

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:54:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Y'all

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:55:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

i've been saying y'all, too, lately!

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:56:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... I don't even say that, and I spent a decade living in Georgia

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:56:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ARe you complaining about my terminology or my meaning?

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:56:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Your meaning.

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:57:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. Well:
alex@kronborg ~ [20:55] $ b etherpad-root  | wc
      5       5      36

So, like, you and/or your other four co-maintainers should deal with
it.

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:57:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Y'all is a distinctly useful word, because even shouldst thou be a
fan of archaic pronouns for the singular, it's still unclear whether
thou meanst the singular or plural by "you"

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:57:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm pretty sure none of those folks count as maintainers

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:58:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I consider myself a rebooter.)

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:58:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Really? I'm shocked.

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:59:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, if you're volunteering, I can make you a rebooter.

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 20:59:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Sure. I'll add it to my todo list to fix...

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Wed Feb 22 21:15:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"For Lent, I'm giving up the thing I value most - God"

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Wed Feb 22 21:15:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Feb 22 21:16:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does this paper actually have "slash-dot.org" in its citations? fail

Class: geofft Instance: best-personal-ad-ever
Time: Wed Feb 22 21:55:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.supost.com/post/index/101695

Class: geofft Instance: best-personal-ad-ever
Time: Wed Feb 22 21:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 22:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

etherpad lite is missing a number of features from etherpad

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 22:41:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Like what?

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 22:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The one that recently bit me is the choice of a fixed-width font

Class: geofft Instance: etherpad
Time: Wed Feb 22 22:50:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think it's mising all per-pad settings like that

Class: geofft Instance: ash-wednesday
Time: Wed Feb 22 23:23:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gotItem: ashes on forehead

Class: geofft Instance: ash-wednesday
Time: Wed Feb 22 23:24:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm sure I passed like five other places that would have don it on the
way, but they didn't have a web presence

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Wed Feb 22 23:56:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I remember why I moved here now.... Coupa's coffee-oreo-awesome drink

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:03:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

..huh. What is this? I don't think I've ever had one

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:04:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the "Coupa Frappe"

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:04:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"blended iced cappuccino, oreo cookies & whipped cream."

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:05:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh. I'll have to try that

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:05:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:23:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of these days I will start being competent

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:23:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not today, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:23:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

What happened?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:23:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: magikarp <geofft@MIT.EDU>

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:24:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I hadn't restarted this alpine session since fixing my
hesiod info.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva.d
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:32:46 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

i,i I always knew magikarp was good for something. 

Class: geofft Instance: ash-wednesday
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:33:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

foreheadslap

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:34:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, I am apparently buying something on SUpost off... Kah-Keng

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:34:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"small world"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:34:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

BTW, don't bother with the bed for me (from SUPost). I got a
mattress+boxspring all of my own.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 00:35:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I figured

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Thu Feb 23 01:56:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> 5 to late
Factoring in time zones, that's ... approximately been my workday
recently.

... I should go to sleep soon

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu Feb 23 02:00:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu Feb 23 02:06:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...where have you been for the last 2 days?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu Feb 23 02:06:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:46:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno? Where was the previous discussion about this?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:50:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oops, still awake. Turned on the TV and there was a Republican debate.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:50:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that the Lost Tomb is a bad place to die.
 <rnjacobs>

Yeah, that's definitely an oops.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:51:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ron Paul is the only guy here competent enough to be president. I
haven't yet decided if I agree with his policies, but everyone else
is an idiot. Santorum and Romney have each successfully convinced me
that the other one sucks, and Gingrich seems like he'd make a good,
like, vice president or something else invisible

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:56:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I should, like, register to vote here? Does California have
open primaries? Does California have primaries? Am I a Republican?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:57:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

That last one is a good question.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:57:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, Romney is _incompetent_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:58:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How does Massachusetts still exist

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:59:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: No part of this fortune may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, ...
 <rnjacobs>

"Senate Democrats" :p

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 03:59:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm still voting for Jon Huntsman.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:00:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, what happened in Syria?

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:02:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You guys suck at AJAX

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:04:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does California have open primaries? If I don't set a party
preference, it says "(If you select this option, you may not be able
to vote for some parties' candidates at a primary election for U.S.
President or party committee.)", but I see news reports claiming that
the Governator switched us to open primaries

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:07:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm.
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/npp.htm

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:08:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently "yes except for the presidential election"?

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:08:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is it fraudulent/illegal to say "enh, Republican is the more useful
party affiliation this year" and not decide whether I'm Republican
based on the issues?

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:10:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

No.
(It might be unethical, but that's different)

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:24:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are there good arguments about how ethical it is? I mean, it seems
like the right and obvious strategy in reelection years is always to
switch to the party not in power (well, provided all you care about
is the presidential election)

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:40:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think switching affiliations is more borderline than choosing
the first time, so I think you are OK in either case,
but I think Ariel Kaminer had something to say.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:41:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/armchair-ethicist-voter-edition/

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Thu Feb 23 04:56:08 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

I laughed out loud re: Gyarados

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Thu Feb 23 08:21:31 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> I remember why I moved here now.... Coupa's coffee-oreo-awesome
drink

hm. next time i'm there i'll try that. i've only ever had them make me
tea

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 08:58:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

[stark]
When I lived in CA, some parties had open primaries and some did not.
In particular, I registered with no party affiliation, and I could
vote in the Democratic primary (or that of one or two minor parties)
but not the Republican one.  
I don't know if it's changed since then, though.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 11:02:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(megastark) CA went to a top-two primary system in...2008? All the
primary candidates for all the parties run in one primary election
and then the top two candidates regardless of party advance to to the
general.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:10:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dwilson: yeah, that's what this website is implying. "which is a
little useless this year." I guess the other
strategic-and-questionably-ethical thing to do is register Republican
and bet that the Democrats will continue to have open primaries and
the Republicans won't

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:13:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jhawk: That's a different question; it's about voting for a candidate
you don't support. I agree that it's ethically troublesome for me to,
say, vote for Santorum on the grounds that the undecided moderates
will hate him and vote for Obama in the general election. I'm less
sure it's ethically troublesome for me to vote for Paul because I
actually would want him to be president, I just might want Obama to
be president _more_. (Romney was in this category too until I saw him
debate)

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:15:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yes, it is different. Sorry for not highighting that when I dug it up.
But it is similar.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:19:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

to clarify my experience, no matter how you register you can vote in
at most one primary.  They were held on the same day, and the worker
at the voting location would note your party registration, and ask
which party's ballot you wanted from among those you were eligible
for.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:26:00 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait...how do the top-two primaries work for presidential elections?
Non-party-based primaries don't seem like they work when every other
state has party-based-primaries: if the top two choices on the ballot
ended up being Obama and Hillary, say, you'd end up with no Republican
presidential candidate on the ballot there when there was one
everywhere else.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:30:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not top-two for national (presidential) races.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:30:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

just senate, house, and I think state offices

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:33:55 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*nod*

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:36:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dwilson: Yes, but for presidential candidates, a good fraction of the
time I only care about one since the other is an incumbent.

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:36:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, yeah, it looks like CA's open-ish primary-ish thing (that
glasgall mentioned) doesn't extend to the presidential race, so this
is slightly moot

Class: geofft Instance: sos.ca.gov
Time: Thu Feb 23 13:38:24 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

(Which is why it would particularly not make sense for them to do it
for presidential races: otherwise, it would end up being basically
impossible for the incumbant to win California in the general, or if
people were smart about it, basically impossible for them to lose it.)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:29:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/wzKKP.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:31:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Creating a Trac was basically the best decision ever

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:31:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Especially now that I'm in not-actively-caring-about-it mode

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:33:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... okay, creating a Trac would basically have been the best
decision ever if my network connection and scripts didn't suck

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:34:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Move it to ldpreload.com, and be sure to set up a repository browser
with 20k revisions and branches going to back to before you were born.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:34:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

unmix, but whatever

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:35:24 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Scripts doesn't suck!
bees-knees.mit.edu
14:34:27 up 9 days, 15:31,  0 users,  load average: 12.10, 12.12, 9.06
busy-beaver.mit.edu
14:34:28 up 9 days, 20:15,  0 users,  load average: 1.01, 0.98, 1.10
cats-whiskers.mit.edu
14:34:29 up 9 days, 18:03,  3 users,  load average: 0.54, 0.59, 0.66
golden-egg.mit.edu
14:34:30 up 9 days, 18:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.35, 0.30, 0.27
real-mccoy.mit.edu
14:34:32 up 9 days, 18:07,  0 users,  load average: 0.39, 0.62, 1.11

Okay, b-k does.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:36:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've been waiting here since I sent my zephyr for my Trac to load

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:36:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> ldpreload.com
IN A 18.181.0.46

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:36:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are you balanced to b-k?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:36:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should get Real Hosting at some point, but effort

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:36:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm balanced to whatever Spock is

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:42:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://forums.grsecurity.net/viewtopic.php?t=2939&p=11669#p11669

"Credentials in Linux are not per-process entities -- they are
per-thread. Therefore, it's perfectly valid for one thread in a
process started by root to call setuid(1), which then runs with real
uid 1, while all other threads in the process continue to run as uid 0
-- even though all threads are sharing the same memory! Arbitrary code
execution in the non-privileged thread can immediately lead to
privileged arbitrary code execution. But if you were to write some
code of your own on the average system to verify this behavior, you'd
think I was lying. After the one call to setuid, all other threads
will report that same uid. What's going on here? The answer is that
glibc is performing some trickery behind the scenes -- when the one
thread calls setuid, the glibc wrapper signals to the other threads in
the process which then issue their own setuid calls, giving the
impression of process-wide uids. The key point to note here is that
it's glibc performing this operation silently. Other libcs may not
(and don't)."

wat

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:43:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:43:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:44:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The rest of the post, incidentally, is relevant to that /r/netsec
discussion of reading a non-readable-to-you process's memory from a
month ago)

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:44:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mean, there's fairly little that's per-process, right? Threads were
basically added onto the linux kernel by adding this thread group
thing and calling processes threads and thread groups processes?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:45:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait, really?

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:45:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

basically

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:45:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

My whole life I thought setuid changes the calling *PROCESS* not the
thread.  You're telling me I've been living a lie?? :)

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:46:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==adehnert, as far as the kernel cares, it does change the calling
process, it just doesn't change other processes in the same
threadgroup. :)

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:49:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ah, so you're saying a "process" is not what I thought it was, and
neither is a "thread"? :(

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:49:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, the concept of threads and processes is largely a userspace
fiction

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:50:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

but manpages are written for us userspace fiction coders! ;)

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:51:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

See the discussion of CLONE_THREAD in clone(2)

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:51:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:52:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I recommend spending a summer grubbing around in the kernel's memory
from another userspace trying to extract info about the currently
running program as a way to get a slightly better understanding of
what a thread, process, threadgroup, and so forth is...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 14:55:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... multicast AF_UNIX? wat
https://lwn.net/Articles/482523/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:00:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Huh, fun.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:00:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

"At least it's better than putting dbus into the kernel"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:02:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

NO

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:02:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Oh, /awesome/. And then they're implementing (pieces of) D-Bus in the
kernel using BPF over multicast AF_UNIX sockets.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:02:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

That is all kinds of amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:02:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

To be fair, BPF was already there.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:51:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, did it actually land? They've been talking about doing this for,
like, a year and a half as the way to solve the D-Bus performance problem

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:53:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...no, they're just talking about it

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:53:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think it's ready for merge but hasn't landed, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:53:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But there is certainly a distinction between AF_UNIX and AF_DBUS

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:53:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, multicast AF_UNIX has definitely been the preferred solution for a
long time

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Feb 23 15:54:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

There was an in-kernel dbus implementation at one point, but it was
just a POC and I don't think anybody took it seriously

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 23 16:26:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Nelson and I appear to be playing the Lawful Hacker / Chaotic Hacker
routine

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 23 16:26:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I'm very good at this game!

Class: geofft Instance: else.rt.prnf
Time: Thu Feb 23 16:35:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

/set status=dejected

Class: geofft Instance: else.lwn.q
Time: Thu Feb 23 16:38:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"On April 29, the University of Colorado held a conference on patents
and free software. Your editor, having spent the morning getting some
significant dental work done, figured that an afternoon devoted to
software patents would appropriately continue the day in the same
theme - only without the anesthetic."

Class: geofft Instance: supost.q
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:11:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"a short skatebord, stylish and easy to turn. I bought this as a new
one, and used it for 3 hours. and I fell off skateboard then realized
I have no talent of getting on a skateboard."

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:18:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, 802 is public? I did not expect that. Maybe I'm jaded

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:20:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o 802.11 is 1233 pages

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:23:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Oh, so it's only two USB specs"

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:23:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like half an Obamacare.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:25:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, actually it's 907 pages and Romney is looking at a badly typeset
version to call it 2700, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:31:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

GPO copies of bills have really really wide margins and really really
big linespacing.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee Opcode: kanye
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:34:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> 3.92 nonce: A numerical value, used in cryptographic operations
> associated with a given cryptographic key, that is not to be reused
> with that key, including over all reinitializations of the system
> through all time.

THROUGH ALL TIME

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:35:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> 3.172 wireless medium (WM): The medium used to implement the transfer
> of protocol data units (PDUs) between peer physical layer (PHY)
> entities of a wireless local area network (LAN).

You mean... air?

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:35:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"or water, or deadly neurotoxin, or vacuum, or..."

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:35:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"man, the WM is sure smoggy today"

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:36:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"after reading this standard, getting to hack on code was a breath of
fresh WM"

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:38:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> 3.149 time unit (TU): A measurement of time equal to 1024 μs.

This is a ... kibimicrosecond?

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:38:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why didn't you just call it a Kiμs instead of a TU then

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:42:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The 802.11 standard is lots of fun.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 17:46:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> An ESS is the union of the BSSs connected by a DS.

*creates two wireless networks attached via Game Boys*

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:16:59 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Oh good, my dog found a chainsaw! <eichin>

note that wireless medium isn't just air, it
includes, for example, *walls*...

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:22:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

consider this: Your mom is wireless medium.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:23:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 0x8badf00d; 0xdefec8ed 0xdeadbeef. <ageng>

Wait, I thought Your Mom was wireless large.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:23:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

...er, I mean, Venti, of course.

Class: geofft Instance: ieee
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:23:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Your momma's so fat she needs jumbo frames

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:30:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i GirlfriendEx

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:49:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sigh, I should probably get around to eating breakfast, apparently
caffeine isn't food

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 18:56:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

FYI thinking of doing some hacking at e.g. DNA Pizza. Also have to stop
home (2772 Bryant) for a moment.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:25:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm still going to be at/near for a few hours...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:26:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I didn't realize DNA Pizza was a hacking space thing

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:28:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I haven't been there, but is there any way that "jwz sells you pizza"
isn't?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:29:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean, I don't...think...I would go try to hack at DNA Lounge

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:29:21 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: choose death <kcr>

Pizza with LISP machines.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Feb 23 19:29:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"but it runs Linux"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:01:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

HARGH MSDN DIEINAFIRE

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:02:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

YOU LIE

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:03:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

YOU LIE LIKE A DIFFERENTIABLE MANIFOLD

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:03:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

locally flat?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:04:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was going for the "Lie algebra" pun, but sure?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:04:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ANYWAY BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED DIE IN A FIRE

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:05:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You are secretly mjg59 and I claim my five bottles of gin.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:05:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, if I were mjg59 I'd be drinking significantly more. ... which,
given that work will probably have me staring at MSDN for at least
the next two weeks, is potentially the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:07:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You'd definitely need to sound more angry to be Matthew.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:07:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED DIE IN A FIRE" sounds pretty close

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:08:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

My favorite was him exclaiming "fucking imperialists" when he couldn't get
a bicycle wheel to fit.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:08:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:08:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:09:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Then I proceeded to walk around Cambridge, UK, with him while he looked
for a suitable replacement. This is how I met him, actually.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipbmp3
Time: Thu Feb 23 21:17:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I'd really like to get better at removing vocals from tracks
(which I guess means getting better software to do that... hm, can
Melodyne do it?)

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:37:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mark Crispin just does not understand IMAP

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:38:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The fact that he wrote IMAP is a significant part of the reason that
it sucks)

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:41:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Blandford Street. <stum>

what are you hurting for?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:41:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

IDLE support.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.pine/browse_thread/thread/52b252d0946abce6/3cad58f05efdf57c%233cad58f05efdf57c?pli=1

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:42:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Hi, I have no idea how to make this work, therefore it must be a
dumb idea"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:42:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

http://bugs.debian.org/637478

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:44:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I see

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:44:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Don't TCP keepalives solve that problem?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:44:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Not for the proxy server in question.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mission Park. The destination of this train is: Heath Street/VA Medical Center. <stum>

does cyrus do IDLE?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:45:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anders, did you send this to fetchmail upstream?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:46:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:48:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there really no way to solve this without a protocol change?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:50:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks like you have to send the literal string "DONE\n", and can't
get by sending spaces or something?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:50:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, what does
> (While the spec actually does allow a server to
> push EXISTS responses aysynchronously, a client can't expect this
> behaviour and must poll.)
mean?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

By “this”, do you mean my bug?  I mean, you can presumably send DONE
and then IDLE again.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu Feb 23 22:52:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, true.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:01:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

this is like someone reinvented Linux poorly

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:28:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

okay why do I have 8 of 9 workspaces in use

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:29:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Yeah, why do you only have 9 workspaces?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:30:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. How am I supposed to get more than 9?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:31:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

give them names, and something like

    , ((modMask              , xK_g     ),
       workspacePrompt  myXPConfig (windows . W.greedyView))
    , ((modMask .|. shiftMask, xK_g     ),
       workspacePrompt  myXPConfig (windows . W.shift))

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:32:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

which I think is in XMonad.Prompt.Workspace

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:32:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

you could probably also bind mod-arrow keys or something

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:33:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

workspacePrommpt... prompts me for a name? That seems annoying

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:34:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

I mean, you could also bind mod-shift-# or something for 10->20

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:39:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I keep parsing "HPT" as "Harry Potter Tool"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:39:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The worst tenday.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Feb 23 23:39:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Tooling

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 24 01:27:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel vaguely guilty about eating Taco Bell and living in the Mission

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Feb 24 02:23:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

As you should (-:

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 02:27:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder what happens when I tell it to safely remove my PCI bus

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 02:51:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There is like one relevant result on Google for the thing I'm looking
for, it's in Japanese, and Google Translate is coming up with things
like "it considers only starting to work on time has been installed
will not work, and that is bound, that minute, running up and down
depending on the driver."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 02:54:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Inside, 'But still not given up, INF You can use the file, should be
able to control the binding of the timing of the installation.
Somehow in a way they will rewrite the registry? You might not even
who you believe. ' For this, first, Please do not rewrite the
registry is not the correct way."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 03:02:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait there's a new upstream release of the DDK and nobody told me?
agh

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Feb 24 15:53:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if caffeinated soap actually works

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Fri Feb 24 15:58:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wat, I wrote myself a 15-line add shell function? past geofft,
you are crazy

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:05:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

WAYRTTD is use blanche from CSAIL; it looks like amd64_fedora9 isn't
Squeeze-compatible. I wonder if I'd prefer to convince TIG to install
debathena-moira, or convince OI to do a locker build for
amd64_somethingwithoutkrb4

Class: geofft Instance: csail
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:05:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or just copy the binary over into my homedir or something

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:08:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, I feel like
a) I actually do want Ron Paul to be president more than I want Obama
   to be president
b) if Ron Paul represents what it means to be Republican, I'm
   Republican
Anyone want to convince me I'm wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:08:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

b: *if*. And he doesn't, in the eyes of most republicans.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:08:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: you're always running away... what are you running away from?
 <rnjacobs>

==

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:09:24 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Ron Paul isn't a republican, he is a pro-life
(formerly-)racist libertarian.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:09:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

he's more libertarian

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:10:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"pro-life libertarian" sounds excellent to me. Do I care about
"racist"? I feel like if you are sufficiently libertarian, I don't
care what your personal views on race are any more than I care what
your personal views on unborn babies are

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:11:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

To what theory do you subscribe about the causes of war and the ways
in which the US should act to prevent war? How much do you care about
US defense policy?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:11:23 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

FWIW, I think it's hard to be christian and libertarian in
the 21st century, both domestically and internationally.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

tibbetts:  why?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that nothing can change the fact that some potions contain a ghost.
 <rnjacobs>

"libertarian" largely buys into the belief that if someone's down on their
luck, fuck 'em. "christian", AIUI, is supposed to not be that way.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

i,i "Render unto God what is God's
and render unto caesar as little as possible."

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Enh, the libertarian view is "go deal in foreign affairs all you want
from your private organizations like your church, and leave the
government out of it", right?

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

I thought I was libertarian in high school, but with more
of a perspective on how the world works, libertarianism
requires either intellectual laziness or an unwillingness
to see your own priviledge.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:12:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, privilege is an interesting argument.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:13:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It changes the conversation from "does the US have the moral right
and leadership to go tell Iran what to do" (which I'd say is "no") to
"does the US have the moral responsibility to tell Iran what to do"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:13:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

You can certainly be *more* libertarian than our current government and
happily christian.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:13:46 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The non-kitten item like this but with "true" and "false" switched is false.
 <rnjacobs>

"sure, that's not saying much"

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:14:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Right, but that bunch is frequently called unchristian. Also, any
intellectual ron paul supporter would know that his views in full would
never pass congress.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:14:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

There are aspects of libertarianism (legalizing drugs)
which are compatible with christianity, but "fuck the poor"
isn't, imo.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:14:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

err current congress*

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:15:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm not sure if that is libertarian FP, but I think having, say, Rick
Perry's Cousin's private militia executing its foreign policy goals
with Iran would require someone to put in a work order in lobby 10.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:15:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

libertarianism doesn't precisely say "fuck the poor" so much as
"helping them is not the job of government"; it's perfectly
consistent to believe that social support *is* a moral obligation of
individuals/private organizations, but not government.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:16:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:16:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Only real trappers escape traps.
 <rnjacobs>

In a progressively nontheist society, I'd suggest that passing the buck is antimoral.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:16:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: suffer the dreams of a world gone mad <jessiehl>

There's also Ron Paul's interesting views on monetary policy, i.e.
he's a goldbug who supports ending the Fed.

And there's the fact he supports dismantling most of the social
safety net and most of the regulatory/consumer protection state.  If
you agree with this, that's one thing, but I was not under the
impression that you did.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:17:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Possibly, though I think (and this is where my claim of
intellectual laziness comes in) that non-governmental
assistance for the poor is insufficient and inappropriate
to address poverty and the other kinds of social problems
we face in the 21st century.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:17:40 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Oh yeah, Ron Paul's monetary policy is another reason that
you can't actually support him.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:18:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: i'm tired of daggers drawn <jessiehl>

Also, Ron Paul only seems to care about incursions on liberty when
they come from the federal government (state or local?  whatever).

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:18:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. That's a little interesting

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:21:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

tibbetts:  that's a valid line of argument, but that implies analysis
and data--how effective is governmental assistance (not in an ideal
world, but in the real world)?  What are the social effects and
implications of having vs. not having such policies?  That is a huge
discussion, and one in which people can come down at many different
points on the spectrum.  

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:22:22 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

People do come down at different points on the spectrum,
though I see few people who seem to take a data-driven,
non-ideological approach, who decide that libertarianism is
the way to go.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:29:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

"anecdotes."

Regardless, I think Paul is certainly ideological over pragmatic, and
it's hard for actual ideologues (as opposed to people who talk strong
ideology to enliven their supporters) to get elected, and even if they
do get elected it's hard for them to do much.  
What they do, however, is shift debate, and make it easier for others
to say "I agree that he has wacky ideas about foo, bar, and baz, but
he's got a point about quux, and I guess maybe a mild form of baz 
could be beneficial."
cf. RMS.

Class: geofft Instance: politics
Time: Fri Feb 24 16:31:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 2/8-9. SF 2/28-3/1. <tibbetts>

Which are anecdotes?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

shut _up_ about upstart

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

yeah, systemd all the things!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

shut up about systemd too :)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

systeme

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

systemf

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Lennart Puttering Around

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:00:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

116 messages in the thread titled "Re: upstart: please update to
latest upstream version"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:01:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And a "Subject: Breaking the even playing field through CLAs
(was: upstart: please update to latest upstream version)"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:07:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, does git-svn not support multiple svn remotes?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:08:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat, why do you want that

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:10:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:10:24 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:11:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

It does.
       -R<remote name>, --svn-remote <remote name>
           Specify the [svn-remote "<remote name>"] section to use, this
           allows SVN multiple repositories to be tracked. Default: "svn"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:11:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oooh

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:12:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I seem to have botched an "rm -r" and deleted my svn repo. Let's
see if I can restore this from git

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:13:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:28:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

agh, does git-svn really not support empty svn repos?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:35:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I like these calm little moments before the storm.  It reminds me of... Beethoven. <eichin>

git-svn doesn't support a lot of edge cases.  (Last I
looked it wasn't even that good at switching among svn-branches... but
that might have been fixed)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:35:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha! I think I finally got my code back in SVN

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:35:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now to convince TortoiseSVN that this is okay...

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:39:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: GIMPS. Because 2**43,112,609 - 1 just isn't big enough either... <eichin>

(someone at work did a bunch of stuff using git-svn
on an svn-branch, pushed the changes back and they ended up on
svn-trunk instead.)

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:53:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jhawk graduated in 2100?

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:53:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

John Hawkinson, Voyager in Space and Time

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:54:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Oh boy.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:54:42 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

I've actually seen a bunch of 2100 alumni in there.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:54:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No relation to Dennis Perepelitsa, Well-Known Authority in Space and
TIme?

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:55:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

*Important Figure in Time, Space, and Matter

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:55:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:56:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

hmm.  I can't seem to see my own degree years on the new alum.mit.edu
site.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 17:57:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass Out <kchen>

(Or my own degrees, actually.)

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:03:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wheel & Deal & Spread <kchen>

Actually, that doesn't seem to be the actual problem -- rather,
degrees just seem to be missing for a lot of people.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:04:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I'm slowly concluding the new alum.mit.edu is unreliable to tell
me about degrees

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:05:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

You should mail icrefresh@mit.edu about it

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:06:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I e-mailed them about a related bug (missing graduation years for
current students). I haven't found a reliable source for missing
actual degrees

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:06:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I get the feeling they're the worst people to email.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu.d
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:06:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Somehow, that address makes me think of a rapper or something...

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:07:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm also concluding that icrefresh are the wrong folks to email, and
are invested in the current product, and someone should tell their
bosses to punt the current webmasters and get different ones

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:07:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Pass Thru <kchen>

Looks like the data exists, but isn't shown (don't know why).  If I
click "Add Content", I can see my degree info.  What do you mean by
"reliable source for missing actual degrees"?

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:07:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Like, I understand some people have had success getting changes
by emailing not-that.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:07:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I haven't found anyone whose search results are missing actual degrees
yet

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:07:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have found people whose search results are missing class years, but
probably didn't get degrees?.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:08:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cycle & Wheel <kchen>

I don't see any degrees or class years listed for myself (unless I
click "Add Content").

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:08:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Clover And Boys Run <kchen>

(Though my class year does show up in the search results before
clicking on my actual profile.)

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:11:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers 1/4 Thru <kchen>

Who should I e-mail?  Is help@alum.mit.edu different than
icrefresh@mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:12:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

icrefresh seems to be comments on the new website, which I think is
different from data bugs

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:12:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

icrefresh@mit.edu is the team that managed the migration

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:12:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think icrefresh are people who explain away the situation without
doing anything. "Your feedback has been noted."
I think the people who actually care are like the alum.mit.edu webmaster,
I'm not sure who he is.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:14:19 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Greg Bourne, maybe?
THough I've lost track of what we're tlking about. I'm commenting on
the general site issues, not on individual data errors.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:14:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Greg Bourne has been answering my icrefresh emails

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:15:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, clearly I'm wrong then.

Class: geofft Instance: alum.mit.edu
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:15:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and identifies himself as "Webmaster, MIT Alumni Association"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:52:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Are you really committed to Debian? Maybe you should work for
Canonical or RedHat?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:52:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is not going well.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:54:36 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You want to see some real wankery, check out
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2012-February/238690.html

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Feb 24 18:57:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's a tiny thread.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 24 19:24:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Argh I keep typing owa.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Feb 24 19:24:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not in fact the right OWA instance

Class: geofft Instance: hair
Time: Fri Feb 24 19:29:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I have enough hair that... it collapsed in on itself and got
less thick

Class: geofft Instance: hair
Time: Fri Feb 24 19:29:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I may need a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: hair
Time: Fri Feb 24 19:31:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

... wat

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:35:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wait I ran out of battery for the noise-cancelling? sigh

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:40:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... hm, I think I recall seeing something from Radio Shack that's
shaped like a battery and plugs into the wall via a DC adapter

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:45:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:45:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that's actually really easy to build with a 1.5V DC adapter, a
dead battery, and duct tape

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:46:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and scissors or wires or something)

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:46:26 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:46:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gaff tape?

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:47:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

That sounds an awful lot like trying to charge the dead battery.

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:48:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Or just something rigid and roughly the length of a battery.

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:48:18 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Charging dead batteries has been known to make them explode.)

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:49:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The duct tape is to cover the terminals on the dead battery

Class: geofft Instance: headphones
Time: Fri Feb 24 20:49:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

as well as to hold the wires in place.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:32:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Steam has PS3 integration now?

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:33:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am so out of the world of video gammes

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:33:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's "old".

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:33:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It happened, like, before Portal 2.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:33:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Portal 2 postdates the last time I was unhosed enough to play video
games

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:34:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(This is work-related, I wanted to pick a random Windows installer to
test out MokaFive's secret sauce on)

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:34:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and now Steam pops up every time I start this VM)

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:34:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You can fix that.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:35:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can fix that with MokaFive

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:35:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Rejuvenate!

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:35:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What does the secret sauce do? Like, what feature is it, not how.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:35:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey broder what does a MokaFive Dalek say

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:35:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

REJUVENATE

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:36:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess the simplest way to describe it for this audience is
debathena-reactivate for Windows.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:36:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:36:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Really? lol

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:38:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Our secret sauce backs virtual hard disk that Windows sees with
multiple virtual hard disks with distinct properties - the user data
layer, the user-installed-applications layer, and the
data-your-sysadmin-gave-you layer

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:38:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The biggest reason this is useful is it lets us swap out the
data-your-sysadmin-gave-you layer to push out image updates without
touching the other two layers

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:38:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I guess there's more magic sauce to deal with conflicts?

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't think it's particularly magic - I think the highest layer wins

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Actually, I take that back - I know there's more complexity than that,
and I have no idea how it works

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The "rejuvenate" button will ideally clean up Steam while keeping my
account settings or something. Although I think I pressed it wrong

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That sounds suboptimal if someone accidentally runs windows update.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Figuring out how it works would involve reading Windows code, so
broder ignores it

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:39:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

True!

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:40:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

achernya: Why? That change would go to the data-your-sysadmin-gave-you
because it's part of the OS

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:40:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And we don't actually persist user-made changes to that layer

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:40:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh! That's shiny.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:40:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a significant amount of magic to figure out how to route what
changes where.

Class: geofft Instance: steam
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:40:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Basically, any description of what the 3 layers represent is an
oversimplification of what actually gets stored on them, and *that's*
the biggest part of the secret sauce

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:43:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.supost.com/post/index/101775
This is entirely too tempting

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:44:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You don't want it. Especially since I can't tell what the heck it is.

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:44:54 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It appears to be a fruit pretending to be a computer.

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:45:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"See kcr's zsig"

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:45:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, I don't have a Solaris box! I don't have an Apple 2 or a fax
machine, either!
or
books will eat me
?

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:47:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

apple //e is perhaps more appropriate, but the former.

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:48:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I actually have a tangerine one at my parents', which is probably the
biggest reason not to bother

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:49:56 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Hard to look at a clamshell iBook or a G4 Cube (with
high-powered-USB-only speakers) and think "yep, this company will
have a $487 billion market capitalization."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:53:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

o_O I think I just got the Windows equivalent of "kernel panic -- not
syncing: tried to kill init!".

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:53:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<kaduk>panic: going nowhere without my init</kaduk>

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Feb 24 21:53:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Congratudolences

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Feb 24 23:20:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Should email validation links require you to be logged in?

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Feb 24 23:21:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

Not if logging in requires you to validate your e-mail first...

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Feb 24 23:23:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, sure, but I've seen multiple sites that let you log in and
associate an email later

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Feb 24 23:23:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Steam doesn't; Gandi's SSL cert interface does

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Feb 24 23:59:36 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

So it makes sense to require logging in if you're worried about MITM
or the user mistyping their address and the accidential recepient
doing something malicious.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:00:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The attack I'd be vaguely concerned about is people accidentally
clicking on the validation link. Which at the very least implies you
should have a POST button on the resulting page

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:02:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How does qemu -usb -usbtablet decide whether or not to draw a cursor?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:03:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

in particular it doesn't when Windows is booted but does during boot

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:21:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh.

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:21:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if that was that person?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:24:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The spectre of Sherlock Holmes wills you onwards.
 <rnjacobs>

As a hunch, whether the internal device is using mouse emulation or a 'native'
driver.

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:25:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, believable

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Feb 25 00:31:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i athrun assassin tellme combo

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 25 01:31:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well. The sample code is giving me the same error as my code. I guess
that's something

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Sat Feb 25 01:40:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: if you haven't found compiler bugs before - chances are you didn't this time either <eichin>

"isn't it nice to know your error messages are functioning properly?" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Sat Feb 25 04:13:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can get why it's reasonable to call me at 1 AM (if I just emailed
you and said I'd be up), and I can get why it's reasonable to expect
to meet me at 10 AM, but both seems a bit much.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 25 12:15:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> Stanford -> laundry -> haircut -> pack -> SF -> Palo Alto -> ->
IKEA with price and kyoki -> SF -> Palo Alto -> more laundry? -> ???

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 25 12:16:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

if anyone wants tocome along let me know, though I'll definitely need
a larger vehicle at that point. I guess there are ZipVans

Class: geofft Instance: your-filesystem-needs-you
Time: Sat Feb 25 12:32:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey bored undergrads! Want to figure out why linux/fs/notify is all
EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL and if there was mailing list traffic about this
when fsnotify was merged? And if not send a nice friendly email asking
about it?

Class: geofft Instance: your-filesystem-needs-you
Time: Sat Feb 25 12:49:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

In general, the LKML folks seem relatively willing to EXPORT_SYMBOL
things that filesystems need ... after you prod them and after Alan
Cox sends you a lawyer-provided boilerplate nastygram.

Class: geofft Instance: your-filesystem-needs-you
Time: Sat Feb 25 12:49:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Nothing to see here, move along. <nelhage>

( https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/1/25/116 )

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Feb 25 13:10:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I love how Navigation's accuracy increases the closer you get to
Google

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Feb 25 13:11:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The timing on the "keep left/left/right at the fork"s on the
southmost Palo Alto exit was impeccable. Almost as if they'd
test-driven it several times

Class: geofft Instance: gmaps
Time: Sat Feb 25 13:12:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 25 13:22:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

YAYY LIBERAL ABORTIONS
(aka, bought some girl scout cookies)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Feb 25 14:21:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... and bought more girl scout cookies

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Sat Feb 25 14:23:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is there a good Android Trac client?

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Sat Feb 25 14:53:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Browser

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Feb 25 15:28:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, I am a fan of using that table-flip Unicode art in discussions
of theology

Class: geofft Instance: ikea
Time: Sat Feb 25 15:50:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... IKEA is selling tickets to their Eastern lunch? wat

Class: geofft Instance: your-filesystem-needs-you
Time: Sun Feb 26 01:46:58 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> In general, the LKML folks seem relatively willing to EXPORT_SYMBOL
>       things that filesystems need

maybe they got better. perhaps you might sympathize with "i gave up
after getting vitriol the first several times i tried"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Feb 27 03:06:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Busy and fun weekend, mostly spent it hanging out with price and
kyoki at Ikea (Jacky wanted something and wanted a ride, which turned
into her going with us yesterday and again today to check on
out-of-stock items). Moved in to 2772 Bryant for some definition of
"moved". Rented a ZipVan (like a big actual van with two seats and no
rear windows) and didn't kill anyone on the highway to my knowledge.
Punted significant quantities of zephyr. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.wat
Time: Mon Feb 27 13:24:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.openwebdevice.com/

This is like Chromebooks, but... Firefoxphones?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:08:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm bad at multitasking because I haven't gotten rid of the Geofft
Interpreter Lock

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:29:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Signs I haven't been at work all weekend, partial list: I'm typing
'cp' again

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:29:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i CP.BAT

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:29:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tempting

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:29:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

YKYWT

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:29:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of which, does anyone have an equivalent to find(1)?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:30:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

FIND seems to be a crappy grep -r (FINDSTR seems to be grep). TREE |
FINDSTR doesn't seem to be as helpful as I want

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:30:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You want an answer that doesn't include "Cygwin", right?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:30:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Preferably.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:32:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think you want dir /s /b combined with find?
Is dirtree still a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:33:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, you might not need to combine it with find, just use wildcards

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:33:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dir /s /b is what I wanted, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:34:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm ... not sure why I still remember that

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:57:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gruh you suck at terminal emulators

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 14:59:35 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Digging up a grave could be a bad idea.
 <rnjacobs>

"Why do you think everyone installs putty?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 15:01:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

only helps if I'm on a remote machine

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 15:08:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Install an ssh daemon!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 15:27:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... is this backtrace... C? C++? userspace? kernelspace? "all four?"

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:35:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Underimpressed with their salmon panini

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:51:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, do you know about the bakery that does sandwiches that's just
across the street from us?

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:52:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I had a sandwich from there this morning"

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:52:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I dropped price off at work after he went to the hospital across the
street from M5, which is why I ended up at this block of Palo Alto)

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:53:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah, that makes more sense

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:53:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I attempted the drive-to-downtown-PA thing a few times a week or two
ago and then concluded that it sucked 

Class: geofft Instance: coupa
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:55:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(which is also why I was at work before 3 PM)

Class: geofft Instance: lists
Time: Mon Feb 27 16:56:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bah, why did I spell snippets-committers correctly

Class: geofft Instance: lists
Time: Mon Feb 27 17:05:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

snippy-committers?

Class: geofft Instance: lists
Time: Mon Feb 27 17:07:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, because someone misspelled it, it's athena-commiters, and
nobody's been unafraid enough to try to change it

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:43:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pandora via Bluetooth to my (rental) car's audio system is mostly
reasonable, except
 - I'm not sure what the steering wheel buttons do. The "channel down"
   button does nothing, the "channel up" either skips the song or
   thumbs it down. I guess the former makes sense because it's trying
   to communicate "next song" (and that's what it does to e.g. a CD)?
 - It sounds like the smiley-face EQ curve is being applied twice, or
   something similarly dumb like that.
 - I'd vaguely like for the display to know the artist and title

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:44:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The last two I think can be solved via additional cleverness in a
music streaming protocol. The first can be solved via my previous
request for a hardware upvote-downvote keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:44:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"smiley-faced EQ curve"?

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:44:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_face_curve

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:45:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> I'd vaguely like for the display to know the artist and title

AVRCP 1.3 specifies a protocol for this. ICS's version of bluez is too
old to support it, and presumably it would require additional API work
for apps to provide the information even once bluez can speak it. Also
the chance of your car supporting AVRCP 1.3 is pretty close to 0

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:45:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(ICS 4.0 actually allows accessing the media library from the bluetooth
device)

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Feb 27 18:46:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Err, I don't know where ICS 4.0 came from. I *meant* to say AVRCP 1.4

Class: geofft Instance: google.else
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:06:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, Google Translate can't completely translate the Italian at the
beginning of "Prufrock". Kind of embarrassing

Class: geofft Instance: google.else
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:11:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is there time to wonder if you dare and if you dare to use Babelfish
instead?

Class: geofft Instance: google.else
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:12:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do not think that they will sing to me.

Class: geofft Instance: google.else
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:13:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:57:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wait, why are there people chanting alleluias in the background

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 19:59:02 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

What game?

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:00:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's the community-written (and thus Free or something) music for Star
Control II (or, with less trademark on the name, The Ur-Quan Masters):
http://www.medievalfuture.com/precursors/

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

But aren't they still derivatives of the original music?

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:14:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think basically no. Like "inspired by", maybe

Class: geofft Instance: video-game-music
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:19:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, they actually have no license file on them.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:20:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

NuBus! oh man

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:20:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...what does that have to do with Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:21:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It apparently supports devices attached to a NuBus

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:21:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(for values of "supports" that include "there is a constant allocated
to NuBus, the implementation may not exist out of the NT m68k port")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:22:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh dear.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:25:06 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

There was an m68k port of NT?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:26:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It might have been for the PPC port"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:27:29 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

Yeah, I have a CD of Win NT PPC (and PA RISC) lying around somewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:27:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or that, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:28:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: Jonathan McCrohan <jmccrohan@gmail.com>
Subject: Bug#661565: ITP: nyancat -- Terminal-based Pop Tart Cat animation
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:28:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:28:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

why does anyone need to be able to apt-get install nyancat

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:29:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: mrow <catthu>

... can you?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:29:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*because*.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:29:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

catthu: Well, this dude apparently wants to package it

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:30:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is apparently a product of UIUC's ACM chapter.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Feb 27 20:33:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, given miku.acm.uiuc.edu, I basically expected this to be the
software that it runs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 28 00:40:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Decided to stay at work another half hour after a very interrupted
day today. Things I succeeded at, partial list: debugging my SPF
records (and Liz's), and reading some ASA mail.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 28 00:41:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should just not try to be productive on the half-hour timescale

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:43:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Best Buy isn't open yet!!???

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:43:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hope Chipotle is or I'm going back to sleep

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:45:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... they open at 11. argh

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:45:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

continuing down this strip mall for other plausibly useful places,
GameStop and Mattress Discounters are also closed

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:47:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

world, you keep telling me to wake up earlier but there's nothing to
do in the mornings!

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:47:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I could be at work before 10. "who does that"

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*raises hand*

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I'm much more productive when it's sunny out, so being at work at
8:30ish is *awesome*. Though they also cook me breakfast :)

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Tucker, ANY time I'm with you my chances of survival decrease exponentially!" - me <jessiehl>

I like being at work early so that I can leave early.

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

==jdreed

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

err jessiehl. 

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:48:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Did not really read past the j there... o_O 

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:49:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Hey, I like leaving early too!

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:49:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

well, == to you, too, then!

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:49:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's been rainy, although it's clearing up.

Class: geofft Instance: dayshifted
Time: Tue Feb 28 12:50:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Also my team is not quite that dayshifted so leaving at 5 fees like
leaving too early" #nerdworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Feb 28 13:38:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

debugging why tab completion on my laptop sometimes hangs by reading
through set -x output, fml.

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Tue Feb 28 13:42:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... why does this work?
geofft@leveret:~/src/mosh$ [[ bar == @(foo|bar) ]] && echo yes
yes

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Tue Feb 28 13:42:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Tue Feb 28 13:42:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~/src/mosh$ [[ bar == @@(foo|bar) ]] && echo yes
yes

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 28 14:10:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm... slowly starting to understand INF files, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Feb 28 14:12:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

! I wonder if that's what I'm doing wrong. "I could test this if I'd
succeeded in ending up at work instead of plopping down at Starbucks"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 15:47:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

>> The Linux kernel project has some serious and ongoing structural
>> problems and I think it's very important that as a project we keep
our
>> options open.
>
> If we assume that Linux falls apart and we want to migrate to a
> different kernel, porting .service files is probably going to be the
> least of our worries.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 15:47:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Remind me again why I'm supposed to take Debian seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 15:48:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is this Hurd, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 15:48:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

People are whining about systemd depending on cgroups and kFreeBSD not
having cgroups

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 15:49:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My impression is that Debian/kFreeBSD is a very usable port.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 16:04:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I used it last summer, fwiw, on someone's machine, and things seemed
to work fine.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 16:07:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It's very important that we be able to run nyancat from the Hurd and kFreeBSD.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 16:09:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Supposedly rmh doesn't have a Debian GNU/Linux machine anymore and
runs only kFreeBSD.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 16:11:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I misread that as rms.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Tue Feb 28 16:16:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:50:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Session Title           Base64 - the Security Killer
Abstract                Base64 encoding can be used to bypass DLP, to
attack web apps and even to attack end users while bypassing firewalls
and IDS systems. Its use can also result in the disclosure of
sensitive information including user names and passwords. Worse, it is
virtually impossible to effectively detect this hidden threat. This
session will help you understand the threat and how to stop it.
Learning Objectives             This presentation will educate
attendees on what base64 is and how it is commonly used. It will
demonstrate the dangers of using base64 and how base64 can be used to
bypass security controls such as IDS/IPS, firewalls and DLP systems.
The presentation will illustrate the difficulties in detecting base64
using traditional technologies like IDS, IPS and DLP. Finally, the
presentation will provide attendees with a program for reducing
base64-related risks by implementing comprehensive base64 detection.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:51:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Kill. Me. Now.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:52:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:52:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Minor! <ezyang>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:49:34 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

Are they trolling?

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Minor! <ezyang>

I can imagine a universe in which they are being deadly serious.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:52:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Regrettably, almost certainly not.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:52:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==ezyang, and I am pretty sure it is this universe.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:54:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So the first few slides are almost reasonable, i.e., "don't confuse
yourself into thinking that base64 is actually encryption"
https://ae.rsaconference.com/US12/published/rsaus12/sessions/DAS-203/DAS-203.pdf
The rest are... there's a picture of Chuck Norris next to an IE logo,
and ... I just don't know any more

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:54:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Haha, you guys have clearly never interacted with large enterprises if
you don't think they're being completely serious

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:55:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Apparently all the RSA conference slides are public, you just have to
be patient enough with their dumb website?)

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:55:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

>>>
base64.b64decode('SGVsaXggUGhhcm1hIHN1cGVyIHNlY3JldCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IHdhcyBzdG9sZW4gYnkgdGhlIHJlYWxseSBuYXN0eSBiYWQgZ3V5IQ==')
'Helix Pharma super secret information that was stolen by the really
nasty bad guy!'

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:56:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:56:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:54:12 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

I think this talk can be summarized as:
"don't ever use base64 as a method for 'encryption'"

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:57:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Who wants to write a paper on rot13 with me for next year's conference?

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:57:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, the point is that your DLP has to be more sophisticated than
looking for plaintext data

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:58:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Which is legitimate, given that enterprises deploy and rely on software
DLP solutions

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:58:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

nelhage: We can have a panel debate, you can argue that ROT13 is the
next threat and I'll take the "Base65: The Unknown Weapon" side

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:58:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Base32, man! Base32!

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:58:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I ... feel like the moral here is that DLP is _obvious bullshit_.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:58:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This entire thing makes my head hurt.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think Edward would disagree with you

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I mean, I try *really hard* not to be one of those security people
who doesn't understand that "partial mitigation" is a useful thing.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

DLP software is purely CYA.  "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM,
etc"

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, DLP can work if Cisco buys out INRIA

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

But DLP just seems *unusually* doomed to being useless.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 17:59:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But they haven't. And won't

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:00:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, the next presentation is entitled "Data Breaches and Web Servers:
The Giant Sucking Sound"

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:00:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think content-based DLP is hopeless

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:00:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But, e.g., DLP that prevents you from copying files onto a USB drive
seems legitimate, if irritating as all hell

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:00:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Sure. I'm referring to content-based DLP, which is clearly what this
is talking about.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:01:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I can accept that

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:01:56 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Does he mean "decoding" in the last bullet point on slide 10?
Encoding vs. Encryption
.. Encoding may seem like encryption but…
.. Encryption/decryption requires a key
.. Encoding/decryption requires only knowledge of the type of encoding

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:02:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh here, this is actually somewhat useful. "Just Because They’re
Authenticated Doesn’t Mean You Should Trust Them" including some
lawyers and judges

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:03:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh this one has got to be hilarious:

Session Title           Should I Sue? The Perils of Litigation in the
Age of Anonymous
Abstract                While lawsuits have always been a public
relations risk for companies, the latest trends go beyond bad press.
In several cases, companies seeking to enforce their rights in court
have found themselves to be targets of coordinating hacking campaigns.
This session will explore the strategies to address these threats
through legal, public relations and information security strategies.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:03:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:05:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Session Title           Policy and Practice of China Information
Security
Abstract                China information security management
proposals, basic policy thoughts, major legal regulations and related
information security working framework.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:05:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

! Adam Langley on cert revocation. This might be the first thing in
the list that doesn't look ridiculous.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:05:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...I'm not sure what's unreasonable about that, given everything I've
heard about China's info gathering capabilities

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:06:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's totally reasonable, just... odd.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:09:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

It's gotta way behind the curve since the Times has already heard
about these problems,
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/technology/electronic-security-a-worry-in-an-age-of-digital-espionage.html

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:12:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... the "paranoid" procedures in that NYT article are more or less
standard operating procedure for like DEFCON, right?

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:12:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They're not very far off from what I do already

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:13:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"He [...] copies and pastes his password from a USB thumb drive. He
never types in a password directly, because, he said, “the Chinese are
very good at installing key-logging software on your laptop.”"

That...seems dumb

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:13:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Haha, thank goodness they haven't got any clipboard logging software.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:14:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I understand that that's actually reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:14:09 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

That does seem like the kind of dumb thing that might have worked for
six months in China because they forgot to install any
clipboard-logging software at Customs.

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:14:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right. Against China, it's silly, but against your average piece of
malware it's useful

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:16:56 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

I always kind of got the feeling that "protecting my laptop for
D3FC0N" was more about theater than practicality, like putting on the
collars with D-rings before you go out to ManRay.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:30:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

augh how did the nyancat ITP thread get to 14 messages while I wasn't
looking

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:32:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And it looks like they scared off the potential packager. Good job,
guys.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:32:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Don't know, but read my note on the bug.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:33:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oh is there seeriously more in the bug

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:33:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Drat, I was trying to undo that possibility before-hand.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:33:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Since when does Debian believe in not packaging something just because
there's enough random shit in the archive?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:35:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I'll chime in on the bug.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Geez, this thread is full of dicks. I'm calling bullshit on zach's
claim that people should be reading debian-devel

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, it's like my claim that you should be on -c sipb, right?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, it's full of dicks. If nobody reasonable is there to call the
dicks out, the dicks stay dicks.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...but nobody is calling the dicks out

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or rather, the people who are calling them out are being at least as
dickish

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:38:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Zach is actually good at understatedly doing so, when he's reading.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:42:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Here's an excellent one from recently, when this dude decided to reply
to every single email on a thread just to restate his position:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2012/02/msg00131.html

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:42:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Said dude has... actually not said a thing on debian-devel since.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:44:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Based on the content of the one, short thread that I just read, I
completely disbelieve that zach is actually being effective at
accomplishing these goals

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:45:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, what's his choice? Officially deprecate debian-devel?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:45:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

This is clearly a deeper cultural problem than just one mailing list

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:45:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Officially deprecate Debian?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:47:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't know, but in 60 seconds of reading mailing list threads, I've
already reminded myself why I develop for Ubuntu and not Debian

Class: geofft Instance: rsa.conference.wut
Time: Tue Feb 28 18:49:32 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

That base64 slide deck is the most amazing thing I have seen in the
security field.  Thank you.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:25:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: "MIT Alumni Association" <techconnection@MIT.EDU>
Subject: MITx first course, Hockfield to resign, credit card
To: "geofft@alum.mit.edu" <geofft@alum.mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:26:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That subject line has the approximate well-phrasedness of "Haikus are
easy, but sometimes they don't make sense, refrigerator".

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:28:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Hockfield -> credit card totally makes sense

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:56:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterson%27s_algorithm
I didn't know you could do that

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:57:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, that is a cool algorithm.

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 19:59:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Exercise: Implement the algorithm using the Linux kernel memory
model, including a minimal sufficient set of memory barriers.

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 20:01:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(I am ... not at all confident in my ability to succeed at that
exercise)

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 20:02:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I may actually attempt it later.

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Tue Feb 28 20:05:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

> I didn't know you could do that

i,i "take 6.852"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:26:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Designing my own crypto woo

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:26:41 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "If you were a cable channel, you couldn't broadcast until after 11pm." <pquimby>

Geofft. 
Foot. Shooting. Agreement.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:27:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll feel more comfortable about this once I unpack my crypto textbook

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:26:57 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

"Use base64"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:28:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Are you going to implement it in haskell?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:28:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It's probably going to run in the Windows kernel based on the trend
lately.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:30:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In fairness, the foot-shooting agreement only covers AES

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:30:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The modification on the SIPB office wall is non-normative

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:30:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What does it say on the SIPB office wall?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:30:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

s/AES/a crypto system/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zfbv3mHcYrc/Sre5JqBKZyI/AAAAAAAABn8/Op-n-e0JVaA/s1600-h/aes_act_3_scene_02_agreement_1100.png

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

ltterally crossed out and written over with a sharpy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm looking at it right now and can confirm Nelson.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(http://bit.ly/wyZ5Mb)

but with AES struck through and "crypto" written above it at an angle

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, did I write "a crypto system"? I thought I just wrote "crypto"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:31:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Exactly! And I'm not using AES. Yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:32:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Agreement is from
http://www.moserware.com/2009/09/stick-figure-guide-to-advanced.html)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:32:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I can probably reimplement something that looks like AES except is
faster and more proprietary, just like DES and fcrypt)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:34:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:34:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

All the best S-boxes are randomly generated.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:35:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

geoff, you're trolling us, aren't you.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:35:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Always.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:36:50 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Geoffrey, we know some people who actually appear to be "always trolling."
I'm afraid you don't qualify.
Because for the "always trolls," the struggle is to decide whether they are
complete idiots, or are "always trolling."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:37:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was trolling when I claimed I was always trolling.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:37:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

\gdots{}

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:38:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"...one guard always lies, and one guard stabs people who ask tricky
questions."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:44:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Definitely a top-10 scene in LABYRINTH.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 22:45:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

that was the weirdest movie

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 23:35:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I need more caffeine to prove my crypto works

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 23:35:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Geoff...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 23:35:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Feb 28 23:36:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(in seriousness I'm just trying to convince myself I'm not doing dumb
things with primitives, I'm not writing primitives)

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Wed Feb 29 00:11:23 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

or 6.172, they cover locking and lockless stuff at week 6 or so

Class: geofft Instance: cs
Time: Wed Feb 29 00:51:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, plenty of classes I didn't get around to :-(

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Feb 29 01:16:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

keithw / mosh / iannucci  2012-02-29 01:16  (Peter A Iannucci)
    I kind of expected something more... Turing complete.
kdrinkwa / teefury / kdrinkwa  2012-02-29 01:16  (Alioth)
    hey, you obviously haven't red PIHKAL recently enough

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 01:52:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh, I could write this in literate Coq

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:02:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... oops, I am actually annotating my functions with Haskell type
signatures

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:09:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I though lenny was dead, why are we getting a point release?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:28:28 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Kitten is the letter 'Q'.  Oh, wait, maybe not.
 <rnjacobs>

"As the security team have recently confirmed that security support for lenny
will end on February 6th (a year after the release of squeeze) it makes sense
to schedule 5.0.10 to be after that date and make it the final roll-up point
release for lenny." .... no I don't understand.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:29:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I guess it's so you can have one last archival-quality point release
with everything ever in it?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:29:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Hey, look, it's war. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again.
 <rnjacobs>

I guess they did that with etch, too.

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:30:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

List Price:     $249.99
Price:          $249.96 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
You Save:       $0.03

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:38:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home and sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:39:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... we should get interwebs at homme

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:39:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

go buy yourself something nice

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:39:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

don't spend it all at once

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

with the $0.03 you saved!

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ah. heh.

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could get... three pressed coin things!

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, I guess I actually can't.

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:40:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, you'd need $1.53 for that

Class: geofft Instance: thank-you-amazon
Time: Wed Feb 29 02:45:58 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

If you got them pressed at EC you could!

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:02:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I would just like to point out that MokaFive is hiring.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:04:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently the slogan of Redwood City, as proclaimed on all entrance
arches into downtown, is "Weather Best by Government Test"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:05:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

s/weather/climate/, no?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:05:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, maybe

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:06:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yeah, but it's California. Who needs good grammar there?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:06:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It also turns out that "government" might mean Germany here.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.weather
Time: Wed Feb 29 13:07:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I remember that sign.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:12:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm still confused what supervisord gets us that like
start-stop-daemon and an initscript doesn't...

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:12:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it's like mysqld_safe?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:13:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Uh, start-stop-daemon is shit?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:14:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

And any time you have to write an init script, you've already lost?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:17:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Enh, I'd rather the devil we know

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:18:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I mean, as far as I can tell, the philosophy behind init scripts and
start-stop-daemon is that people should be forced to do the exact
same work as many times as is possibly, because UNIX should be hard.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:18:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

It's similar to how Debian packaging worked before dh@i[N]

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:18:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/bBU6c.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:19:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:22:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Also supervisord respawns things that crash.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:22:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Anyways, to be slightly more coherent, supervisord actually manages
your process, rather than forcing you to do all the work yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:23:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

e.g. you don't have to write your own pidfile or manage your own
logfiles, or restart yourself on failure

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:23:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

or daemonize yourself

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:24:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So basically supervisord is a proto-systemd?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:24:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

It has many of the same blindingly-obvious ideas that systemd has, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:24:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

It is not a full 'init' itself, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 15:28:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bah, Java. "Can I get back on the Windows kernel driver project yet"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:11:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

grande caffe mocha
grande caffe mocha frappuccino

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:11:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Which did you want and which did you get?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:12:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I forgot to say "frappuccino"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:12:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seriously your ringtone is the angry birds theme?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:12:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or are you playing Angry Birds with your kid? That's more acceptable

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:12:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: mrow <catthu>

My ringtone is the mario theme!

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:16:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why.... oh, I'm not running xcompmgr, ok.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:16:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay if my windows are translucent I probably do not want the
default Ubuntu background

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:18:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh. For some reason, I never considered the possibility of having a
separate window manager and compositor under current X architecture

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:18:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think xcompmgr was the first compositing manager

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:20:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, uh, ew starting/killing xcompmgr throws my windows to the wrong desktops

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:20:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

this might be a multimonitor thing, I usually haven't had this problem?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:23:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, the fade in/out effect sucks a lot more on a rotated monitor

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:24:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I thought rotation with X only about half worked

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:24:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

e.g. be glad your monitor isn't a touchscreen

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:25:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ha!

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:25:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... ... actually remember having that problem all the time with
OpenEmbedded or OpenMoko or something

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:26:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's apparently still a problem

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:36:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Schrödinger put his cat in the box because it was CREEPING HIM OUT. <eichin>

it's more that X doesn't actually know that touchscreens
are attached to screens, so xrandr and xinput don't actually talk to each other

Class: geofft Instance: transportation
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:36:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, there actually is a bus from the Caltrain to work at reasonable
hours (like 10:30 and 11:30) ... there just isn't a bus from work to
the Caltrain at reasonable hours (last one leaves at 6:50).

Class: geofft Instance: transportation
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:38:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Which bus are you looking at? The only one I know about stops running,
like, before 9

Class: geofft Instance: transportation
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:38:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the 270 Samtrans bus, not the free shuttle

Class: geofft Instance: transportation
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:38:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: transportation
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:38:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Which stops right outside that charter school)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:40:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2012/02/i-voted-yes-on-prop-8-today-im-thankful-prop-8-was-ruled-unconstitutional.html

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:42:53 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I like that the "Paul is a douchebag" meme is really
getting legs in even some of the more conservative
christian groups.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:44:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

see also
http://www.reddit.com/r/Catacombs/comments/q5iv4/ama_request_nt_wright/c3uxzzk?context=3

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:44:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"NEW PERSPECTIVE ON PAUL? WHATS WRONG WITH THE OLD ONNNNNNNE"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:44:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, there are like four hundred Google results of people
actually saying that in earnest. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:46:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I think I'm a member of the 1% of people reading Christian
theology with approximately zero respect for the text of
the bible. It makes many of these arguments seem stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:46:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. How do you pull that off? (Or do you have respect for parts of
the text of the Bible but not others?)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:47:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I respect people's biblical interpretations as potentially
containing universal truth, like any other theology or
philosophy might, but the universal truth of something is
independent of how many bible quotes it contains.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:48:47 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Basically "it's cool how all you people wrap your thinking
about how we should be nice to each other in quotes from
this book, it seems over done to me, but if that's how you
get your inspiration, I'll read along."

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:49:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... can we continue this conversation later, trying to think about
the sources of universal truth and also NoSQL databases at the same
time is making my head hurt

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:49:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

certainly

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:50:27 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I was thinking about NoSQL databases, but now I'm thinking
about S&P's data products, which are actually pretty
trivial.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:50:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(That said, I'm curious about your opinion on "The Abolition of Man")

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:54:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I haven't read it, though I have read about it. My limitted
understanding is that it makes the points that universal
good and evil exist and we should teach our kids about
them. I think that's a fine perspective to have, though I
may be forced to note that anyone holding that perspective
is really making a statemnt relative to their own
understanding of "universal", "good", and "evil", and the
merits of that appraoch to teaching children should be
determined by concrete outcomes, and the right way to judge
concrete outcomes is itself a question best considered from
a position of moral relativism.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:55:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's not too long and there's a questionably-legal copy in the
~second Google result.

There's an interesting almost-Godel-style argument about the
inability of us to define universal good based on our own logic.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:56:53 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I enjoyed Mere Christianity and continue to consider the
arguments in favor of the existance of god. I'm actually
pretty blase about the existance of god.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:58:30 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

As I recall, we differ substantially on the traditional
Christian afterlife, in that I think it's a ridiculous and
harmful idea. My most recent reading on this is Peter
Rollins Insurrection, which is I think a little too dark,
but I tend to agree with his idea that the "religious God"
is a really lame god.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 17:59:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Honestly, I don't actually understand the position that Christianity
is a cool thing even if it's unclear that Christ was God or that God
exists in the way Christianity describes... mostly because my
personal view on e.g. "The God Delusion" is "Yes, Christianity sucks
and would be well worth eliminating if it weren't true"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:00:05 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Hah, that's an amusingly diametrically opposed opinion.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:00:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, back to figuring out conflict resolution

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:02:54 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

I'm struggling with a bunch of this myself; a few years ago I would
have said what Geoff did, then I read some Borg and Crossan and
started reading more, started wondering when Jesus became Christ,
wondering why I believed these scriptures and not the very nice
Mandaen ones right next door...

...and now I'm stuck wondering what *exactly* in a liturgical service
is worship as such, and what parts are just fun, and whether this can
survive as a charitable group without much theology.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:07:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

> back to figuring out conflict resolution

Paxos vobiscum.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:07:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hehehe

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:07:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Wed Feb 29 18:08:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Et cum datum tuum!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:03:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it was too soon to complain about Java, I'm now reading
Objective-C

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:03:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like someone was like "What will make C++ better? I know, Perl
syntax!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:05:28 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It's more like "What would be a less braindead OO system?" with less telling
you "you really shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:06:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

You have to appreciate it in its historical context, its'
pretty cool

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:06:58 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Objective C originated at right about the same time as C++, so I think
its ideas are mostly independent.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:07:16 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough. <eichin>

it was more of a contemporary/competitor (though now
I'm wondering if Ken's work on Objective-Concurrent-G++ ever went
anywhere; the syntax extensions were non-conflicting...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:07:29 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

==ghudson, it's more smalltalk / message passing like.
There are several design patterns in C++ that are built ins
in Obj-C for example.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:07:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Shower can be exchanged for bubble bath upon request. <eichin>

independent in the "taken from smalltalk" sense, yeah :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:07:38 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It does suffer a bit from having syntax extensions which don't feel
very C-like, but on the flip side, it didn't become monstrously
complex.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:08:20 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Personally I'm a big fan of some aspects of Obj-C that you
don't see elsewhere, for example making virtual method
dispatch (or message passing) look different from regular
method call sites.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:11:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"OO in straight C does that"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:15:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, local root vulnerability in systemd

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:16:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Is this the first vulnerability in systemd?)

Class: geofft Instance: interwebsq
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:28:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are three big differences between Provos-Mazieres and PHK’s scheme:

1. Bcrypt was invented by two smart guys and PHK’s was only invented
by one smart guy. That's literally twice the smart.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebsq
Time: Wed Feb 29 19:29:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:19:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoaaaaaa

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently we actually have things set up so that I can kinit against
Active Directory and things Just Work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have alpine getting my mail from Exchange without typing a password
past the initial kinit

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and we even have SRV records!)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why doesn't MIT have this :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:20:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Bring this technology back with you, ASAP.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:21:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hear that if you convince Network to unfirewall the
EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU KDCs it will Just Work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:21:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It requires Exchange 2010

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:21:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Which... I hear we now have

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:21:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We *have* Exchange 2010.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:21:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We certainly don't have OWA 2010 at work. I don't know if we have
Exchange 2010

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:22:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Working cross-realm with ATHENA is the thing that you need Exchange 2010
for

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:23:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Crossrealm is overrated, if you have MIT Kerberos, like, 1.11? then
you can have multiple tickets in your ccache

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:24:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and you can set up pam_krb5 against Exchange with try_first_pass, I suspect

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:28:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, what did you kinit against? skyblue-technologies.com?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:29:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

all-caps.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:30:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ kinit gthomas@skyblue-technologies.com
Password for gthomas@skyblue-technologies.com: 
kinit: KDC reply did not match expectations while getting initial credentials
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ kinit gthomas@SKYBLUE-TECHNOLOGIES.COM
Password for gthomas@SKYBLUE-TECHNOLOGIES.COM: 
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ klist
Ticket cache: FILE:/tmp/krb5cc_1000
Default principal: gthomas@SKYBLUE-TECHNOLOGIES.COM

Valid starting     Expires            Service principal
02/29/12 17:19:27  03/01/12 03:19:30  krbtgt/SKYBLUE-TECHNOLOGIES.COM@SKYBLUE-TECHNOLOGIES.COM
        renew until 03/01/12 17:19:27

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:30:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The only redeeming quality of that error message is that it's very
googlable

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:31:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

. o O { I wonder if Zephyr supports AD KDCs? }

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:31:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dude, there's no point in setting up a chat server that only you and I
can use

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:32:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is more of a suggestion for Karl to market as "Zephyr: The
Microsoft-Compatible Enterprise Messaging System" than a suggestion
for us to do anything

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:32:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Good

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:34:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... also I don't understand alpine

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:35:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:35:57 2012 Host: 10.83.71.136
From: Geoffrey Thomas <gthomas@local-realm>

Hi?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:36:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah, it fails once I install libzephyr4-krb5. Anyway, back to actually
important things

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 20:37:14 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I totally had kerberized email working while at motorola in 2005.

Class: geofft Instance: workq
Time: Wed Feb 29 21:52:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft: "Switch BareMetal over to xmonad and xcompmgr!"
broder: "No! I get absolutely nothing useful from that, and I have to
learn Haskell."

Class: geofft Instance: workq
Time: Wed Feb 29 21:53:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

So ... you working for MokaFive has gone basically exactly as expected.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/G+
Time: Wed Feb 29 21:55:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Linus just posted a picture of a cat so he could get upvotes

Class: geofft Instance: reddit/G+
Time: Wed Feb 29 21:57:32 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. <asedeno>

Yes, yes he did.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb 29 22:12:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Looks like Guillem has decided not to do the thing that makes Debian
dpkg incompatible with Ubuntu dpkg (I think there might have been
technical arguments on both sides, but this was the implication I
cared about)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Feb 29 22:13:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I still say there's no way Guillem could have actually pulled that off,
since such a change would have been significant enough to require code
review, and Raphael is significantly invested in Ubuntu to not let that
pass

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Feb 29 22:21:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm still not sure why Garry hasn't revoked the ability of East
Campus residents to use blanche at the server level

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:01:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do I want to go to this thing?
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/
(it's free)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:02:55 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

They made it look just like the Stanford seal!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:03:43 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

"Is it just a bunch of people talking about how much ALSA sucks?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:11:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Crossrealm is overrated, if you have MIT Kerberos, like, 1.11? then
       you can have multiple tickets in your ccache

Do I get that in 12.04, by any chance?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:12:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:13:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But you still can't get EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU tickets yet, so.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:35:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aw crap, I'm no longer a student

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:35:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I bet that's why I can't read books from Safari via libproxy :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:36:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

WFM

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(but I'm on VPN, not libproxy)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:37:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm. Maybe we just don't have access to the book -- via
libraries.mit.edu/get/safari, search results don't find this book

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:37:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

("Windows Internals")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Feb 29 23:39:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I should just ask work to buy it or something.)

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Mar  1 00:11:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... just watched the video where the "Yes oh my gosh" in "Scary
Monsters and Nice Sprites" is sampled from. I am now even more confused

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Mar  1 01:11:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want imap2podcast.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Mar  1 01:12:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Mar  1 01:13:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I want my phone, which has text-to-speech built in, to take
text messages and read them out loud over the Bluetooth connection.
That certainly doesn't seem hard

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Mar  1 01:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It sounds like this software can do that.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Mar  1 01:15:32 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From:  ... the better you look, the more you'll see. <eichin>

look at the accessiblity stuff?  hartmans was doing
that 5 years ago with a nokia 6630...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Mar  1 02:00:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did somebody do something stupid again?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 02:08:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Shiny.

I mean, I don't use Exchange, so that's fine with me. I *do* have a
DEHNERTS.COM realm, and I might actually use it if I could put it in
my ccache.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 02:08:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

("could" taking as a given that ATHENA is in my ccache, since... it
pretty much is.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:31:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hate parking

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:34:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you'd taken mass transit like me, you could have avoided this
problem, while paying $1.70 for the privilege of being 15 minutes late
and stuck between 2 unwashed Harvard students.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:35:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

You could have alternatively taken a cab to work, like I did today, and
had the privilege of zooming by without stopping, being delivered
right to your workplace's door, and overpaying for your commute.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:36:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, both require getting rid of the car first.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:36:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should figure out where the nearby garages are. I almost parked at
a not-nearby one and took a cab back and forth to my house

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:37:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The problem is parking spaces I need to move out of by 9 am

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:37:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I thought everybody in CA had offstreet parking except for, like,
downtown SF

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:38:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've failed to find something. I hear my landlord has a $200/month
parking space nearby

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:43:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, since I really want to punt this rental, anyone have tips for
car-buying? How many stores should I look at (if going the "certified
pre-owned" route)? How reasonable is a lease on a new car? If I
refuse to hagggle at all, am I going to seriously overpay?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:44:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't mind slightly overpaying for the sanity points kept by not
haggling, see also jobs

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:44:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have an LJ post I wrote about buying used cars like 5 years ago.  I
can try and dig it up.  If you're buying used, pay for a month of
Carfax, it's worth it.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:45:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

there's a particular car this one dealer has that they've shown me
the carfaz report on.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:45:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, always check online ads for dealerships - -typically the price
there is less than what they say it is if you walk in.  Haggling is
not that hard.  

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:45:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's like $15/month, that is noise when you're buying a car

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:45:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:46:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, how do I ... use this mitfcu loan.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:46:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Basically, go in to the dealer with a price you _want_ to pay, and a
maximum price, and you won't get screwed.  "Don't start with the
maximum price"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:46:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's not like a credit card or checking account where they give me a
physical thing I can use

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:46:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't know how to pick a reasonable price I want to pay...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:47:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

kbb.com is your friend

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:47:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

There are online services that take care of the haggling
and finding the right dealer part for you, for like $50

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:47:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(I'm assuming used -- new is harder

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:48:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tibbetts: oooooh

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:48:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are they sane?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:48:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

rlcarr uses them, I have not. Oen of the VCs I know is an
investor in, I think, truecar.com.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Thu Mar  1 12:51:15 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Actually, I think rlcarr and the VC are in zag.
http://www.zag.com/ THough digging further they are related
to truecar

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:05:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, the Das Keyboard is actually kinda loud

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:06:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In mostly-unrelated news, can I do something awesome where I map a
specific keyboard to an application?

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:06:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I guess the application here is KVM and I can try to
USB-passthrough the keyboard...?

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:11:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... this is loud enough to annoy _me_

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:12:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

is yours the "silent" one?

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:12:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"apparently not"

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:12:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno, I got it from someone who sold it because her roommate
complained it was too loud.

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:12:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

because I find it's still tactile and clicky (I actually like it's
tactile more than the loud one) but not irritatingly clicky.

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:12:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

what's the model number on the bottom?

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:13:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The tactile feel is more like one of those 1990ish serial terminals
than a model M

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:13:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I think silent has SI? (at least mine here does)

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:13:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DASK3?

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:13:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

there's more than that to it, right? if not, you probably got a loud
one.

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 16:13:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

but IIRC the loud one has more than that, too.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:41:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Product requirements thus far:
"It shouldn't suck"
"It has to work"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:41:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Those are tough.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:42:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Maybe you should aim lower.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:42:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

"Shouldn't suck" seems like it can be relaxed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:42:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It shouldn't suck most of the time" is probably more likely.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:42:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

And "has to work" fails to specify for how long or under what
conditions.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:43:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Well, if your projects involve Java and Windows, how can you possibly get
"shouldn't suck"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:43:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Wishful thinking

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:45:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Jared: Fortunately this one requires neither

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:46:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i MonadFive

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:46:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:46:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, "all software sucks".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:47:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The question is which axes it will suck along, and the magnitude of
the suck vector.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 18:48:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That's just dirty.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 19:21:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Actually, I think Java and Windows are both likely involved with high
probability

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 19:26:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 19:27:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean, our server product is Java. Any new server will likely also be
Java. And it will be running on Windows

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 19:27:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I hear we have VMs, can I write it in Python and Linux and run it in
a VM on the Windows server"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 19:55:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We need a term for something more minimal and less viable than
"minimum viable product"

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu Mar  1 20:05:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hours, not days! Minutes, not hours! And always patching, patching
towards freedom!

Class: geofft Instance: apache
Time: Thu Mar  1 20:13:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Er. Are people submitting mirrors of Apache projects to
apache.org for SEO?

Class: geofft Instance: apache
Time: Thu Mar  1 20:13:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/

Like, what is "alliedquotes.com"

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 21:31:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Hm, I guess the application here is KVM and I can try to
> USB-passthrough the keyboard...?

As it turns out, this works kind of poorly.

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 21:32:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It seems to not really be dealing with the keyboard in realtime,
which means dropped keys (and worse, dropped keyups)

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 21:33:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm surprised how smoothly usb_add/usb_del seems to work though

Class: geofft Instance: keyboard
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:08:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, an external keyboard without an external mouse is weird

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:26:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The RSA conference has made my life strictly worse. Last year I had
to cover a 6.857 lecture, this year it meant there were lots of
pedestrians near Moscone

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:36:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... did the kernel debugger just crash? "Again?"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:40:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

WHO DEBUGS THE DEBUGGERS

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:43:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

another debugger?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:43:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's debuggers all the way down!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:43:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Who shaves the barber?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:45:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I assume you mean "who shaves the yak shaver"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:46:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

yes, I know

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:47:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I needed more quotes

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:48:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Here: «»«»«»«»«»

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:48:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  1 22:49:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I was going to reply with speech excerpts.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:08:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, Maven's -rf option means "-resume-from", not "do something
horrible to all my files without warning"??? Whose idea was that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:09:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

wow. affordance fail.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:09:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Nothing in maven does what you expect.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:09:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey, no spoilers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:09:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, good God in heaven why are you using maven.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:16:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: the living fish swims in water <eichin>

==glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:25:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have to register for an account to download Subversion????

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No? http://mirrors.ibiblio.org/apache/subversion/subversion-1.7.3.zip

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://subversion.apache.org/download/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What is that, source?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yes, what did you want?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Something I can use?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:26:51 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

For? Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:27:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah. Go click the CollabNet link on the second link you gave me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:27:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, why is Subversion now Apache Subversion the world is weird

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:28:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh. Yeah, apap rently they want you to register. You can grab any of
the other builds like SlikSVN or Win32Svn or I think msys may have
one?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:28:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

TortoiseSVN comes with one, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:28:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you're on Windows, you want Tortoise anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:28:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have Tortoise. Do I have a svn binary secretly? I couldn't find one

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:29:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll grab the WANdisco build, because the concept of a company that
sells products to let you get away with SVN long after you really
should be using a DVCS is hilarious

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:31:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OK, I think I now have a working version of SVN, so maybe this maven
build will complete

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:32:01 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do you need?  Goats.  Lots of goats. <eichin>

re apache: basically, running foundations sucks, why
bother with a single-use one when you can get an existing one to
deal.  (it moved over... 3 or 4 years ago?)

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:39:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:40:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The best comment: "Who's lennart pottering and can't he write
whatever he wants - or is this another sopa thing."

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:42:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There is surprisingly little overlap between typical online activists
and typical nerds.

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:53:24 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What's in the bag? <eichin>

I thought most of that intersection was actblue :-)

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:54:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe "the people working for actblue".

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Thu Mar  1 23:55:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Working for a company that does a ton of stuff for online activism
has been quite enlightening in that regard. I've...honestly never
seen a group of people so young and whose business is dependent on
technology who are so *utterly ignorant* about it.

Class: geofft Instance: lennart
Time: Fri Mar  2 00:13:31 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Working for a company

are you allowed to say which?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar  2 14:22:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just slept for 12 hours. Fortunately I'm dayshifted enough that this
wasn't quite unreasonable

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Mar  2 15:58:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

SAN Francisco. Not to be confused with NAS Francisco

Class: geofft Instance: genericized-trademarks
Time: Fri Mar  2 16:03:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently you are supposed to "follow Chipotle at www.foursquare.com/chipotletweets".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:15:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"maven help" builds documentation for your project, as opposed to
giving you help on how to use maven???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:17:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You never answered my question; namely, why are you using maven?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:17:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I thought it was 'mvn'

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:17:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because apparently people think I'm a Java developer or something

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:18:03 2012 Host: 18.111.120.78
From: 3 11 13 29 106963 <cesium>

"Try using halp instead"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:20:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That would probably make it try to go out and download all of
icanhascheezburger.

Class: geofft Instance: tt
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:31:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The Council did successfully adopt a new meeting schedule on
Tuesday, agreeing to convene once every two weeks — instead of the
Senate’s traditional weekly schedule — once the constitution is
approved. Until then, weekly meetings will continue under the UA’s
temporary constitution."

Geez, MIT really has an _incredibly_ short-term memory about what is
and isn't "traditional"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:34:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, Mac OS got different sinnce 2007

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:35:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess if you count how different it got between like 2002 and 2007,
or 1997 and 2002, this is not too surprising

Class: geofft Instance: tt
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:41:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

@@oblig(We have done this three times, therefore it is a sacred
tradition and cannot be changed!)

Class: geofft Instance: tt
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:44:56 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

The refrain of the undergraduate.

Class: geofft Instance: tt
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:52:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Weekly was a pbaranay thing, right? was that actually 3 years ago?

Class: geofft Instance: tt
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:52:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Most recently, of course. It'd swapped a few times before.)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:57:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

free software under CC-BY-NC-ND? that's a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:58:45 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is that... really free software?  I don't think so.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:59:18 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

NC is bad enough, but ND is pretty dispositive here.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:59:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NC fails freedom 0, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 17:59:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's Windows, when we talk about free software we are referring to
price, not freedom

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:00:09 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Heh, fair enough.  Alternatively, ITYM "freeware"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:01:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i.e., you should be happy they're not going "Creative Commies, what?"

Class: geofft Instance: uh
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:11:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ cat /sys/module/kvm_intel/parameters/unrestricted_guest 
Y

What... does that mean

Class: geofft Instance: uh
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:12:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... ... wait really this is the name of hardware real mode
virtualization!??!?

Class: geofft Instance: uh
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:13:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That is the worst name. But a useful feature!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:20:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat. I'm supposed to have 4.883 GB free disk space to run MokaFive
Player? That's a confusingly specific number

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:20:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I bet that's 5000 MiB = 4.883 GiB.

Class: geofft Instance: uh
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:33:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... bochs supports (emulated) hardware virtualization? WAT.

Class: geofft Instance: uh
Time: Fri Mar  2 18:33:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh good, this appears to postdate when I took 828

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:01:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

void foo() try {
   ...
} catch (...) {
   ...
}

is valid syntax!???

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:03:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Sure

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:06:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How?

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:07:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

void foo do {
  ...
} while (0);

doesn't seem to be valid syntax...

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:07:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

nor void foo() void inner() {
  ...
}

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:09:06 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Not yet, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:10:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh, I had sort of assumed that I could use arbitrary control structures

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:11:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, certainly
int main() cout << "Hello world" << endl;
is invalid.

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:11:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also isn't there a thing where you can say "throw ()" or so after the
function name, or am I confusing C++ and Java?

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:12:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You can do it in C++, but the semantics are weird and not particularly
useful

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:13:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought you wanted it to disable even thinking about exception
handling in interfacing-with-C contexts (FFI, kernelspace, etc. etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:14:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It doesn't do any compile time enforcement as far as I can tell

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:14:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

evan@caron:~$ cat test.cpp 
#include <stdexcept>
void test() throw () {
    throw std::runtime_error("foo");
}
int main() {
    test();
    return 0;
}
evan@caron:~$ g++ -Wall -o test test.cpp

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:17:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think basically if an unlisted exception bubbles up from an extension
with a throw statement, the program immediately terminates or something

Class: geofft Instance: c++
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:31:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, I think it calls unexpected(), which terminates.

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:44:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Is, uh, starnine or something still on all the dorm lists?

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:49:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:50:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm kind of curious how many challah sale notifications there have
been over the past, say, two months.

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:50:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although he (? she?) was deactivated for a bit, so I'm missing some
archives from early February or so.

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:51:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Six.

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:51:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Er, I'm misreading OWA. Let me go back to OWA Lite

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:52:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"It feels like more"

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:52:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Five in 2012.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:54:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

None of our products are working for me :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:55:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah, there, finally got MokaFive^WVMware^WMokaFive Player running

Class: geofft Instance: dormspam
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:56:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

I count eight in 2012

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 19:57:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently we have no Player for Debian testing, so I've never
actually gotten around to dogfooding MokaFive's deployment of MokaFive

geofft: "Wait, I have a LivePC? I haven't run my LivePC because you
  don't support my laptop"
broder: "We support your laptop just fine, we just don't support your
  lifestyle choices"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:01:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> finally got Player running
... that might have been premature. Also, where is the entire rest of
my team? I need someone to ask dumb questions to :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:45:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh, I was hoping to spend this weekend finally getting around to
doing thesis things (or at least open source things), but I bet
there's still a bunch of apartment setup to do

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:54:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa,

1. there are crazy automated systems in certain parts of SF that
detect which spaces are in use and recalculate the optimal price of
parking?

2. the automated systems feed to an iPhone or Android app that tells
you where the nearest free parking space is?

3. the API is open and the apps are on Github?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:55:29 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

#1: Wow, that's awesome.  I wish the Mission had that.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:55:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You wouldn't spend so much time driving around looking for a spot.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:55:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mission St. itself does, but our part doesn't. :(

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:55:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Exactly

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:55:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://sfpark.org/

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:56:02 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Haha, keeping the riff-raff out of parking spots.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:56:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also these parking meters are, according to the website, the world's
largest deployment of NFC.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:57:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We're rolling out smart meters here soon; I am totally excited about
this.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:57:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The current price of on-street parking is waaaay too low.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 20:58:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I just hope rates don't end up getting capped stupidly low.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:00:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For all of SF's technological awesomeness, they have not figured out
how to display parking garages on a map instead of in a list, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:03:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe my class knows -- there is allegedly a Mission and 24th parking
lot, where is it? gmaps aerial doesn't make it obvious.

Class: geofft Instance: sfgov.org.q
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:05:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender & HIV Resources"

Well, I can say that of all the possible permutations of the acronym,
I've never heard LGBTH before.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:48:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo, the yodoggery seems to be working

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:49:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"It's kind of slow though"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  2 21:50:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Fortunately my Mac is on an ESX box"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:18:26 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Whoa,

yes. pretty much. and putting in those fucking induction loops is
expensive, sadly

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:41:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This seems slightly poor:
thomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp$ git init foorepo
Initialized empty Git repository in /tmp/foorepo/.git/
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp$ cd foorepo
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/foorepo$ git svn rebase
Migrating from a git-svn v1 layout...
Data from a previous version of git-svn exists, but
        .git/svn
        (required for this version (1.7.4.1) of git-svn) does not exist.
Done migrating from a git-svn v1 layout
fatal: ambiguous argument 'HEAD': unknown revision or path not in the working tree.
Use '--' to separate paths from revisions
log --no-color --no-decorate --first-parent --pretty=medium HEAD: command returned error: 128

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:43:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Admittedly, part of why it sucks is that there's no HEAD, but
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/sipb-iap-gdb$ git svn rebase
Migrating from a git-svn v1 layout...
Data from a previous version of git-svn exists, but
        .git/svn
        (required for this version (1.7.4.1) of git-svn) does not exist.
Done migrating from a git-svn v1 layout
Unable to determine upstream SVN information from working tree history

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:43:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which,
thomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/sipb-iap-gdb$ ls -l .git/svn
total 0
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/sipb-iap-gdb$ cat .git/config
[core]
        repositoryformatversion = 0
        filemode = true
        bare = false
        logallrefupdates = true
[remote "origin"]
        fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*
        url = git://github.com/geofft/sipb-iap-gdb
[branch "master"]
        remote = origin
        merge = refs/heads/master
gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/sipb-iap-gdb$ git br -a
* master
  remotes/origin/HEAD -> origin/master
  remotes/origin/master

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:55:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Grah, networkmanager really needs a button for "Would you like me to
try rmmodding and re-modprobing this device for you"

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Mar  2 22:58:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

++

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Mar  2 23:04:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

++

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 13:10:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do the security properties of SHA-1 and SHA-256 truncated to 160
bits compare? What about SHA-256 and SHA-512 both truncated to 160
bits?

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 13:25:14 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I'm not aware of any specific attacks on truncated hashes, and I know
Kerberos uses them in places (e.g. a 96-bit truncated SHA-1 hash as an
integrity tag for AES enctypes).

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 13:26:01 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Meaning, SHA-256 truncated to 160 should be as good as SHA-1 would be
if there weren't known compromises.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 13:39:22 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

SHA-256 truncated to 160 bits is *at least as good* as SHA-1, given we
do know about some compromises on reduced-round versions of SHA-1.
There's a standard for how to pad and how to truncate---approximately
"do your hmac as normal, then take the most significant bits of the
hash".

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Mar  3 14:32:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh, oops. Do faucet water filters and faucet dishwasher hookups stack?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Mar  3 14:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I... what? Faucet dishwasher hookup? I've never seen that

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Mar  3 14:49:57 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You must've led a fairly sheltered life, Quentin.

(Not that I know the answer to geofft's question; I wouldn't, but I rarely
see the point in faucet filters)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:12:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We're pulling a Random and getting a portable dishwasher because we
don't have a built-in one.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:12:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, is there actually a standard?

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:13:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, my impression is that it reduces birthday attack complexity to
2^80, but so long as all breaks in SHA-256 are complexity between
2^80 and 2^128, you're still fine.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:15:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It seems to me like if you're doing "diffusion" right, no bits of the
hash should be more important than the others, but it's also the case
that you can imagine a hash where the first bit does suck more that's
otherwise basically theoretically fine

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:16:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I guess the fact that everyone does Merkle-Damgard hashes by
truncating the final output to half its length is another argument
that there isn't anything inherently unreasonable about truncating a
Merkle-Damgard-ish hash further.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:16:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I *think* that hashes that people create these days aspire to have
every bit as good as every other bit.

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:18:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OK. Somewhere I heard "don't truncate hashes! the hash is only
valid/sound if you use all of it" and I'm trying to convince myself
that that person wasn't right

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:19:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: c:/system/data/PTIT9UDB0F.DAT <eichin>

yeah, because if they're not, you've got leverage for an attack :-)

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:21:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: structured, quietly xenophobic, and comprised of elaborate, 
sophisticated, and interlocking rituals. <eichin>

(and one of the reasons X9.9 authenticators
truncate [though that's using DES as keyed hash, if I remember
correctly] was to [attempt to] reduce the effectiveness of brute
force, since you didn't expose the entire result)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar  3 15:23:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> lunch -> buy a car

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:34:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How much should I expect to haggle down a car? O($100)? O($1000)?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:36:03 2012 Host: LUNATIQUE.MIT.EDU
From:  <broder>

I think I haggled down 5 or 10%. Don't remember exactly what the
original sticker was

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:37:00 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

Are you buying new or used?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:37:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Used

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:37:12 2012 Host: LUNATIQUE.MIT.EDU
From:  <broder>

Err, yeah - that was for a CPO car

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:37:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Specifically, almost certainly a 2008ish Civic hybrid

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:37:51 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

How much does kbb.com say you should pay?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:38:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was just about to check that!

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:43:20 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

I think I overpaid in 2010 -- I paid $12k for a certified preowned
(marketing scam for "used") 2008 Corolla CE with 37k miles. (For the
same configuration today, KBB suggests $13.5k as an appropriate CPO
price and $11.5k as an appropriate private-party excellent-condition
price.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:43:52 2012 Host: LUNATIQUE.MIT.EDU
From:  <broder>

> marketing scam for "used"
At least with my car, it's not totally a scam - I get a meaningful
warranty extension out of it

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:44:23 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Ah, yeah, I just don't know how to value that.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:44:48 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Like, Toyotas don't really have powertrain problems in their first
100,000 miles or ten years, so what good is this piece of paper? Its
expected value is probably close to zero.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:48:10 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

My tiny number of data points from trying to buy used cars from
dealers in 2010 suggest that most of them will start way above KBB
private-party "excellent" and can be haggled down to it.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:49:01 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

I have a feeling that their true cost for each car (the $ they paid to
buy it or took as trade-in credit) is way below market price -- look
at the KBB price for "trade-in" to see how much dealers are paying on
average.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:50:12 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

Some of their inventory comes from wholesale auctions, which, you
could find out the actual price they paid for a car if you had a
login & password to manheim.com (discussed at
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/819529/)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:53:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My understanding is that there can be some pretty sweet deals at the
wholesale auctions, but it is buyer beware, even for the dealers.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 17:57:15 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Yeah, without a doctorate in cars I would only ever use it as
information to determine market prices.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 18:29:00 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I'm really curious how much the dealer I got my prius from got it at
wholesale at.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 18:42:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm willing to deal with overpaying a bit (probably up to $1000
over what I could theoretically get it at) for less stress

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 18:43:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also for getting a car now, since I'm paying a decent amount per week
on the rental and for parking since resident parking with a rental
seems annoying to get

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:35:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The car salesman got confused as to whether he was telling me prices
or mpg and claimed that this car gets forty-three thousand miles to
the gallon

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:35:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

++

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:36:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have successfully ordered an iced hot chocolate.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:36:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is totally a Thing.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:36:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==glasgall, although that doesn't make it less amusing.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:37:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This caused some "wat" on the part of the baristas until I pointed
out it was on their menu:
               12 oz  16 oz  Iced/20 oz
Chai Latte     3.05   3.55   3.85
Hot Chocolate  2.75   3.05   3.35
Italian Soda   -      -      2.80
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:37:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

After some fiddling with the cash register, they found it under the
name "iced chocolate".

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:38:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Note that this was less than intentional on my part -- I just was
like "hm, I'm looking for an iced drink, and hot chocolates are
tasty" and I didn't really connect the two until after I ordered it.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:38:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Just give in and learn to love the latte.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:38:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

You're working with broder, I figure it's basically inevitable.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do need to figure out how to use the espresso-or-whatever machine
at work.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

You'll learn to like now or latte?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I am confused why our break room does not have five moka pots

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Lattes *are* amazing

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:39:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Iced? Chai?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:40:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I didn't actually want a hot drink. I almost never want hot drinks

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:40:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm not a chai latte fan because there's not actually any coffee in
them. And yeah, I don't really like iced lattes, it's true

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:41:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Iced vanilla latte can be good

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:41:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I actually kinda like iced lattes.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:42:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now that you mention it, Beantowne's dirty chai latte (i.e., chai
latte + espresso shot) is actually awesome

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:42:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dirty chais are definitely awesome

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:42:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That's like mixing coke and pepsi.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:42:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

dirty chais are amazing :)

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:43:06 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That really does seem like crossing the streams.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:43:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

no, no, it totally works.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:43:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hai Liz

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:44:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

It's basically a way of getting a not totally sweet cinnamony, etc.
flavored latte.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:44:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

but macchiatos are really where it's at, though I think geofft wouldn't
love them like I do.

Class: geofft Instance: supost.q
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:44:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Richard Simmons Electronic Food Steamer"

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:45:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Unfortunately it's hard to find places that have espresso consistently
good enough for a macchiato. I definitely don't trust my own espresso
enough

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:46:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Ah, fortunately, the fika near my work pulls very consistently amazing
shots :)

Class: geofft Instance: facebook.q
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:46:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Phaeton poked you."

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:47:05 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cambridge *is* The Village <eichin>

luna had a pretty good dirty chai.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

not to mention that many places have the wrong understanding of what
macchiatos are, thanks to the likes of Starbucks

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:48:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

What is a macchiato?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:48:46 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(and where can I get a good one in Cambridge?)

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:49:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Macchiato is a shot of espresso with a little foam on top to soften it
a bit

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:49:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Espresso with a small amount of frothed milk. Voltage was pretty
reasonable at this?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:50:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Voltage annoyed me. Possibly because they have no food worth
anything, and I'm more addicted to food than to coffee

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:50:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

They're definitely really only a coffee place.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:50:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, I reall wish Voltage would stop being so damn hipster and serve
some real food.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:51:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

shrug. It didn't bother me.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:51:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

They clearly *want* to serve food, but are too deeply hipster to
serve anything reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:51:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It *was* amazingly hipster. I wasn't totally sure I had left SF

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:51:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Nelson: I don't think that's true. They don't seem to want people
lingering around all day.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:51:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Sure, why don't you come up with a *reaosnable* explanation! :)

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:52:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I think they really like their little plates that are enough for
meetings.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:52:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of hipsters, why are there so many hipsters here

Class: geofft Instance: cafe.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:52:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like why is this called Mission and not Hipsteristan

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:52:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

which, admittedly, seem like they can pass for food at first glance and
it sucks you in and makes you hate their "food", but they clearly didn't
mean it that way.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:52:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Well, they now serve paninis, too.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:53:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Right, but have they ever had meat on them>

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:53:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

They just only have two options, both of which are unbearably
hipster, and which they run out of by like 2pm.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:53:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Or anything that wasn't like "chocolate with goat cheese and a quarter
ounce of figs"?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:53:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Geoff: Blame the lost generation?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:53:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A macchiatto is a shot of espresso "marked" with a puff of foam.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:54:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I forget what the actual items are these days, but they seem
*intended* to be a credible lunch. Not that I've ever actually
ordered one.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Mar  3 19:56:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Livejournal
Liverjournal

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:13:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmmmm, I need to do some math to figure out whether a non-hybrid
with almost as good mpg (like a Corolla) is net cheaper

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:14:01 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

if you're highway driving, the answer is almost certainly yes

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:14:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"but I spend so much time circling my apartment trying to find parking"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:15:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

"How cheap would a parking spot have to be to pay for itself in gas costs?"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:15:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Liz, you have a Prius? Do you do.... any highway driving at all in
Boston?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:16:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The cheapest they're quoting me for a used Prius is $20K, which is
... more money than I want to pay

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:19:58 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I paid $13k for my used prius. if they want 20k, they're ripping you
off.
I do regular highway drives to CT and back to see parents in law

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:20:30 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

about once every two months. and most of my day to day errand running
and such is city driving though.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:20:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Meanwhile they're quoting a Corolla at $15K, and it sounds like I can
get the Civic hybrid for slightly over $15K without too much
hagglinng (quoted at $16K)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Wait, geofft, if you're paying what they ask at a car dealership, you're
doing it wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You get that hybrid has virtually no impact on highway mileage and
massive impact on city mileage, right?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:20 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

civic hybrid at 15k is probably sane.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:29 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Most anything can be done sketchily. - jackhill <wings>

== lizdenys

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

also ==broder

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If there's no traffic on the highway :)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:41 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

what's the mileage? civic hybrids need a $3k battery replacement at
100k

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:21:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Depends on how much time you spend stuck in traffic on the highway"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:22:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i think they just did the battery replacement on the Civic Hybrid
(50K?)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:22:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... should revisit all these places with a notebook.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:22:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Unless geofft makes *significant* changes to his lifestyle, he won't be
stuck in traffic on the highway

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:22:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Santa Clara through 3/1. NYC 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

==, if you don't walk out at least once during your car
negotiation, and the salesman doesn't make you feel like
you have litterally taken food out of his childrens mouths
and spit on them, you didn't negotiate hard enough for your
used car.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:22:50 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

no, this is the IMA battery ($3.5k), not the 12v battery ($50)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:23:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Let. Waseem. Run. Your Life.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:23:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lizfong: Right, they claim they did that. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:24:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Wait, Waseem is a life coach now? Why were we all not informed?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:24:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Only for geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:24:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:24:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

And I feel like you totally knew about this.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:25:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Well, I knew that we all were part time geofft life coaches.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 21:25:42 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

if the IMA battery died at 50k miles the car is a lemon

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:20:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:21:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, also, what year is your prius?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:22:59 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I got a 2004 prius with 20k miles. it was a lucky find.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, these are all, like, '09 or so

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

With a sticker???????/

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, starking, lizdenys/wings/tibbetts: I'm not paying what they ask,
I'm just citing those numbers because they're easier to compare 

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:43 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

priuses don't get stickers any more, only NGVs and EVs

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:23:55 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Yeah, but the 2004 might have?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:24:15 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I'm in MA now :P - but yeah, my 2003 honda civic hybrid had a sticker,
but those expired Jan 1 2011 iirc

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:24:31 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

all the stickers are gone, even if they were issuing them past model
year 2004

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:25:13 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

so regarding a 2008 or 2009 prius: I'd think around $16k-$18k would be
about reasonable, but anything more than that would be insance

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:25:31 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Supposedly the used market is pretty supply-constrained right now.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:39:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, the other option here is the "buy something old from a Stanford
Ph.D. or someone who's similarly got a good excuse to be getting rid
of a car that doesn't suck" one, which gets me a much older (and
cheaper) car and fewer smarmy used car salesmen at the risk of
something that's actually crap. Thougts on that?

e.g., there's a '97 Corolla on SUpost. Given that this is actually my
first car, it doesn't sound incredibly unreasonable, and it gets good
mileage

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:53:30 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That's what I would do.  But I appear to have a very
different context for cars than you do.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

btw, I'm not sure if this is something that crossed your mind (it
certainly didn't when I started looking at vehicles for the first time), but don't forget
taxes et al, as that'll add probably another O(1k).

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sat Mar  3 22:54:35 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

have you looked at CarMax which doesn't have smarmy salespeople or
haggling?

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sun Mar  4 00:47:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

[stark]
> What is a macchiato?

http://topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/33368_540.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sun Mar  4 00:48:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

That's... it's... cuter than most coffee posters, but infinitely more
confusing to read, even *knowing* what is in all those drinks. And it
really fails to describe proportions.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 00:49:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

[stark]
I also recommend CarMax, though they are inconvenient to get to from
the peninsula.  They are...generally non-sketchy.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:04:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Also that looks like a cappuccino has chocolate in it, which is just
wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:12:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Problems with Christian metal, partial list:
- It might be the devil's music
- It makes me drive too fast

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:12:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:13:09 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Flying IFR is a contact sport.  Sooner or later, you will need to contact the tower. - AOPA <wings>

"It's okay, you're supposed to speed in California"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:17:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...how could Christian music be the devil's music?

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:18:27 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Awww, adorable emo optimistic black souled piper. - lexrj <wings>

It's not _real_ Christian music if it's metal!!

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:19:36 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

"same way the GOP is the Devil's party"

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:47:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

haha kcr++

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:48:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Quentin, these are the same people who believe the Pope is the Antichrist. Or Obama is. Or both.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:48:48 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

We're all the antichrist.

Class: geofft Instance: driving
Time: Sun Mar  4 01:48:52 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Obama is the Pope.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:45:31 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

If I had to do it again I would hunt Craigslist for cars in the
$2k-$4k range, buy something and drive it into the ground over a few
years, and then repeat. But I'm in a situation where I'm willing to
spend money on repairs, OK with having unreliable transport on short
notice (if something needs to be repaired, it's easy to get by with
public transit or a cheap rental car), and don't need to think about
safety (no kids).

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:48:51 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Oh man that $2950 '97 Corolla with 208k miles looks awesome! And you
would probably get to learn a lot about car repair, which, what a cool
systems problem.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:49:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:50:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I actually suppose I can deal with unreliable transport (Muni ->
Caltrain -> taxi, slash I'm thinking of getting a bike and leaving it
at that Caltrain)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:51:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no more kids than you do.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 02:54:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I think I don't really have the patience for the time cost of
repairs vs. the money cost of a newer car, and I'm no good at paying
attention to computer hardware so I doubt I'd be better at cars. If
the car were to run fine for a year or two, give me two days'
warning, and then stop existing, that'd be more reasonable, but I bet
it won't do that

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:00:48 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

I would definitely subscribe to munin-toyota -- real-time graphs of
whatever vehicle instrumentation data the onboard computer knows
about (tire pressure, fuel economy, core engine temperature, oil
level and consumption rate, battery voltage), e-mail alerts for any
actionable problems, $20/month.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:02:08 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

It would probably get acquired by General Motors subsidiary OnStar
+/- 6 months around product launch; if they're already building it,
that would be an interesting competition!

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:04:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Tempting, but I lack the machine learning background and the web
dev/UI pants background to do it myself.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:04:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Also the free time."

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:04:21 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

This is already a product targeted at, e.g., truck fleet managers,
http://gpstrackit.com/gps-tracking-products/xp-4000/ , but you could
build a consumer product that's either super easy to use and
unreasonably expensive (Nest) or super easy to use and unreasonably
cheap (Square).

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:04:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i SMART for your Smart

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:05:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do you need?  Goats.  Lots of goats. <eichin>

there are already cheap OBD-II diag loggers, with
bluetooth or usb dump, though how much integration you'd have to do
(most of them have windows-based apps and services)

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:07:09 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Yeah, the data input component is easy (you can even
set-it-and-forget-it with the OBD-II + cell modem solution I linked
to).

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:08:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: this is a standards rich environment <eichin>

"request pricing" is a bad sign; the devices I'm
talking about are $20-$30 :-)

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:09:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: When all you have is a hammer, you cease to have a hammer. <eichin>

(and have $5 android apps too)

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:09:17 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Haha, yup. This imaginary product would have to completely hands-off,
which I think means cell modem (unless you have WiFi at home).

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:10:18 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: IAU MPC code:932 name:John J. McCarthy Observatory, New Milford, CT <eichin>

well, you'll have a phone with you when you're in
the car, that *should* be enough...

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:10:34 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Ooh. Yeah, it should.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:12:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... it's a very unambiguous system. <eichin>

(though I don't know how much they *log* or you'd
just have to poll a lot..   ah, the "carchip" is the $80-$100 frob,
that's trying to be more of a "black box for your car" - "It records
up to 300 hours of trip details, including trip time and date,
distance traveled, speed, and up to four of 23 different engine
parameters" 

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:13:46 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Hahah. "We could only afford the 32mb chips, but we promise next year
we can record up to 16 different engine parameters once the 128mb
chips get cheap!"

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:14:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It doesn't take all kinds, we just have all kinds. <eichin>

you *could* just throw it all into pachube,
and then it's Merely An Analytics Problem... 

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:16:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

That is a cool platform!

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:23:03 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

I feel like I do not really understand the options for (1) hardware
[permanently installed OBD-II reader], (2) reliably communicating
info from hardware to somewhere on the Internet with no user
involvement, ever [cell modem OR Wi-Fi OR crazy phone app], (3) data
storage, (4) reporting-layer work like dashboarding and analytics
[kind of an ironic application], (5) e-mail alerts based on info in a
database [custom app logic?]. But the end-to-end system for this seems
pretty simple and I'm surprised I can't buy it already.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:26:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: You shouldn't let statements like that bother you. I mean, I always do, but you shouldn't. <eichin>

looks like the reporting piece is priced at fleet
rates (the carchip fleet tool is $400) and probably has things like
anomaly detection (and probably map-based tracking, that's why the
$150 version of the carchip pro has a GPS... people [and city govts]
with fleets of snowplows *do* do all of this already.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:29:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From:  longer · larger · farther · faster · higher · quieter · smoother <eichin>

as for alerts - while there might be untapped
trend-based results, most of a modern car is covered by explicit
odb-ii failure codes (alerting you with the check engine light,
instead of email) and scheduled preventitive lubricant changes. 
There just isn't much payoff otherwise...

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:35:20 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Yes, it's also possible that the exact right amount of real-time
dashboarding and alerting is offered by the car's onboard dashboard
and error lights.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:36:36 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

I'm not sure, though. I've definitely known folks who spend a few
days looking at CHECK ENGINE before driving over to a repair shop
that shares the free use of their onboard diagnostics code reader.
And I often wonder how my tire pressure is holding up but am too lazy
to read it manually.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar  4 03:46:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:19:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How are AFS PAGs implemented on FreeBSD?

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:19:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

-c kaduk is right over there -->

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:21:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Morning!

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:23:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can someone just take over the UA by military coup? That sounds easier

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:26:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <remeyer>

"would I get to inflict violence?"

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:26:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

We need someone to declare martial law disband the Senate.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:27:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

*and disband

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:27:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Senate disbanded on their own!

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:27:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That's not how this is supposed to work!

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:28:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm actually kind of confused as to whether a constitution is even in
force at the moment

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:28:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Well, I guess let's move into the martial law phase of the operation
anyways.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:29:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I nominate geofft as supreme leader and overlord of the MIT student
body.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:33:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Please. Eternal leader, otherwise the Democratic People's Institute
would be plunged into anarchy when I graduate

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:34:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

"BDFL"

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 12:35:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No no, it has to continue after death, like the Juche necrocracy.

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:10:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

They're not.
http://rt.central.org/rt/Ticket/Display.html?id=129092

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:16:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what about, like, UNIXes that are even less Linux? Darwin, or 4.3BSD, for instance

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:18:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do they all use the two-group hack?

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:22:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

If I remember correctly, recent OS X just doesn't get PAGs.

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:25:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

We're on good enough relations with FreeBSD that we might be able to
stick a dedicated field into struct proc for use as a pag or pag-like
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:38:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Plus, I think the election deadline in the Constitution *is* more like
a suggestion. I firmly support the Pirates of the Caribbean approach
to student government:

"It's more like a set of guidelines than an actual code."

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:39:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I was just about to comment elsewhere, but--I did not know what to say.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:39:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I approve wholeheartedly.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:40:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Can't they just amend the Constitution before they approve it?"

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 13:41:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Oh, there's Leonid saying that.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Sun Mar  4 14:20:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I've finaly given up on capitalizing "internet" and
putting a hyphen in "email"?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Sun Mar  4 14:21:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I gave up on email a while ago, but I think I still capitalize
Internet.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:03:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:06:36 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        If I remember correctly, recent OS X just doesn't get PAGs.

correct. sadly.

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:09:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... huh

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:09:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

so tokens are per-user or something?

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:11:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Wait, this is getting worse and worse.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council.mq
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:11:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like debian-devel, I haven't read all of it, just the emails from
people I suspect will have hilarious things to say (and the responses)

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:14:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

per unix uid

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:15:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:15:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i blame love.

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:15:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So, uh, what modern OSes other than Linux do have PAGs (preferably
in some way other than the group hack)?

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:15:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Windows?"

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:16:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm going to assume that NetBSD's AFS support bitrotted?

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:17:43 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> aix

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:17:52 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

windows has PAGs per-thread if you wish

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:18:08 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

netbsd is being actively developed

Class: geofft Instance: boston.globe.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:29:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"CAMBRIDGE - As far as MIT is concerned, Jacob Hurwitz is a pirate."

Class: geofft Instance: boston.globe.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:30:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:34:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Derrick: jhb seemed to think that it would be easier to do per-thread
pags than per-process, on freebsd.
(but I go poof again)

Class: geofft Instance: boston.globe.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:36:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: CLIXBY (adj.) Politely rude. Bliskly vague. Firmly uninformative. <ahailes>

nice

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:36:24 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

can i figure out what process a thread belongs to? problem solved :)

Class: geofft Instance: i-know-what-i-am-doing-is-wrong
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:39:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> netbsd's AFS support
Is being actively developed, whenever someone prods jakllsch.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:44:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Costco only takes Amex?

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:45:12 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

And Sam's Club only accepts MasterCard and Discover.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:45:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:46:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I remember the Sam's Club bit from when I was a kid because that's
the only occasion my dad would use his Discover card

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:46:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess they presumably take cash, too.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:47:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but I should finish that Amex application

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:49:54 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

IIRC you can also buy a "Costco Cash Card" (declining-balance gift
card, can only be refilled by Costco members) on their Web site and
you can pay for Web purchases with Amex/Visa/MasterCard.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:50:48 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Anyone who holds a "Costco Cash Card", which is the closest thing they
have to gift cards, can shop in the store without needing a
membership. Previously there was a loophole where anyone could buy or
refill one of those cards, which meant that it was kind of silly to
hold a membership at all.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:51:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Doesn't seem like it's hugely better to carry several hundred dollars
in a declining-balance card than in cash.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:52:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Someone convince me not to get a Smart simply because parking will
suck less

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:52:29 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Some folks carry a bunch of the $10 gift cards and pay the remainder
in cash, or just pay cash... I dunno, it's a very confusing way to
save $50/year.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:53:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

They also accept "checks", which are like a kind of money that you can
print yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:53:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, uh, here, I read this. "Never mind."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/automobiles/autosreviews/11-smart-fortwo-la.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:55:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have those!

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:55:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does anyone fill not-regular fuel in their cars? Why?

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:55:52 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Some cars need high test fuel.  Most don't though.  If you drive a
sports car, then you usually need high test fuel.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 15:56:31 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Marissa is borrowing a friend's 1990 Mercedes, which will choke it
not fed high-octane fuel.

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:26:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Avoiding DRY seems to be a Good Thing here

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:36:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As a data point, looks like I've put $252 of gas into my rental so
far (and it's low on fuel, but not completely out)

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:50:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They also take debit of any brand

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:50:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:51:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm observing that you store _both_ the original charge and the
rounded splits, even though the latter can be calculated from the
former

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:51:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh. Yeah, I may switch back to regularly using debit since the small
merchants (and IKEA) seem to sadface at me when I use credit

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:53:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Given the car's estimate of its own mpg (18 (!)), that seems lower
than I'd expect

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:53:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, it can't, because there's a slight amount of nondeterminism in the
split calculation

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:53:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And it's not obvious to me that storing expense amount + a bunch of
ratios is an improvement on storing expense amount + expense breakdown.
Either way you need 2 sets of information

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:54:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, if you change the expense amount later, then there's no risk of
forgetting to change the expense breakdown if you calculate it from
ratios instead

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:54:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DRY is really about "there shouldn't be the possibility for two parts
of your DB to contradict"

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:55:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

If I calculate it from ratios and change the expense amount later, you
introduce the possibility of fractional currency, which BlueChips
doesn't believe in

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:55:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right.

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:56:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You could introduce a deterministic rounding algorithm.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:56:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Haymarket. Change here for the Orange Line. Doors will open on the left. <stum>

i feel like debit is just as much sad face as credit...

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:56:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, the way the schema is architected now should allow me to do all
of the calculations needed for the home page without any joins

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:58:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I thought if you enter a PIN then they don't pay any transaction fees
or something?

IKEA gives you a 1% gift card if you use debit, which if the market
is optimal implies that whatever debit fees are, credit fees average
1% higher.

It's also the case that debit cards are guaranteed not to be rewards
(and thus have the higher transaction charge for rewards credit cards)

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Given how much money IKEA has stashed away in their "non-profit", I
wouldn't feel so bad about any sadfaces from them.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:59:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

My bank charges *me* $0.50 per debit transactions

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:59:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are you making allegations about IKEA's funky business structure? I'm
not convinced it's any more funky than any other business.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:59:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

glasgall: "Get a new bank"

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 16:59:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I think he's making allegations about IKEA being filthy rich.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They are owned by a non-profit that takes all their profits.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But given that the free market is awesome, if they've found a way to
bypass government taxation by declaring themselves a non-profit, good
for them

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...why do you care if IKEA doesn't like you using credit? They are a
giant international megacorporation

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I really do need to get a new bank.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Geoff: Sure, other businesses have funky structures, but at least they
don't hide behind some "non-profit" that has some claims about helping
humanity.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:00:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure that's actually true

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:01:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

And yeah, they're a giant international megacorporation. I don't
understand all the fuzzy feelings people have about IKEA.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:01:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.starbucks.com/responsibility/community/starbucks-foundation

"Starbucks supports social development projects that help the
communities that produce our coffee, tea and cocoa."

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:01:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't have fuzzy feelings about IKEA! I just have fuzzy feelings
about successful capitalists.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:01:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Government Center. Change here for the Blue Line. Doors will open on the left. <stum>

my understanding is that PIN-based transactions are more expensive
(for the bank, at least), since it requires additional "work." i have
no idea how/if it translates to merchant fees.

Class: geofft Instance: costco.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:04:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Sure, many companies have foundations. I seriously doubt that the vast
majority of them hide _all_ their money behind them. IKEA is able to do
this because of some Dutch loophole that has since been closed (with IKEA
being grandfathered).

Class: geofft Instance: costco.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:04:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Anyway, carry on.

Class: geofft Instance: costco.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:05:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And the auto industry gets to hide all their money behind the US
government because of some American bailout that has since been closed.

Class: geofft Instance: costco.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:05:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dude, drink less Kool-aid

Class: geofft Instance: costco.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:05:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was more specifically referring to the "helping humanity" claim

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:06:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Someone call the whambulance, quick."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:06:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1) I thought it was "waaaahmbulance"?
2) wat

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:07:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I can only conclude that the "whambulance" is what happens when an
ambulance runs someone down. *wham!*.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:07:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

As opposed to the "waaaaaaaaahmbulance", which you're thinking of.

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:08:26 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ikea actively incents using debit

Class: geofft Instance: costco
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:08:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ah, you covered that and i am slow

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:18:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Math! Looks like at the amount I expect to drive, my annual d$/dmpg
is about $50/mpg at 40 mpg, and $100/mpg at 30 mpg. (I feel like I
calculated this earlier, I just have slightly better numbers now)
Driving a 30 mpg car instead of a 40 mpg one will cost me $750/year.
Driving a 50 mpg one instead of a 40 mpg one will save me $414/year.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:20:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think the possible swing in mpg is much lower than 10, though, so
over a, say, 6-year life of the car (is that reasonable?) I might
save/lose $1500 in gas over a 4 or 5 mpg difference. Less if the
numbers in play are closer to the 30 side.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:20:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So a hybrid that gives somewhat but not awesomely better highway
efficiency is not a huge win

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:21:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That's what I was telling you a few days ago.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:21:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I don't think hybrid technology is necessarily a big win just yet.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:24:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

On the other hand, you might get some tax incentives if you go with a
hybrid, but I don't know which hybrids would qualify for that in your
state. (The IRS seems to only count a very small set of cars, and I don't
think that the Prius is included.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:25:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh. I expect to spend (total, not differential) some $2500 in gas a
year... which over a six-year life _almost_ justifies getting a
plug-in Prius instead of a used car. Almost.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:25:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Under what discounting scheme?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:25:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Money in 6 years is almost certainly worth far less to you than money
now.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:26:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

True.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:26:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"under the discounting scheme that justifies me getting a plug-in
Prius right now"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:27:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Not that I don't see a certain temptation, but don't pretend it makes
financial sense if it doesn't :)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:27:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

How much more would the payments each month be for a plug-in Prius
compared to a conventional car that's not a gas guzzler?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:29:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it's $33K, which is way more than the amount I requested a loan
from MITFCU from, and I have no idea if they would actually approve
that, so "potentially infinite"

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:29:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:29:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yeah. See why I got a regular Civic...

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:29:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(list, as with all prices quoted on this class, but even with
haggling that's more, and I feel the need to say that because you
people think I'm paying list)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:29:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(which I might, anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:30:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'll buy a hybrid (or electric) in a few years when (a) I have more money, (b) the
technology is much better and (c) the prices have gone down on the
technology.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:32:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, the phrase "2003 Prius" exists, so I'm surprised the technology
isn't _yet_ better

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:33:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

battery technology blows

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:33:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

although I hear that supposedly some big break-through was recently made

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:33:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Battery technology is basically all that's holding us back from the
singularity.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:34:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

the singularity?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:34:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

y'know, that thing futurists like to talk about where super-human AIs
start self-bootstrapping and shit.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:35:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

The problem is that the AIs keep running out of juice halfway to
sentience.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:35:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I try to distance myself from that sort of crazy talk.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:36:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Woodland. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

couldn't you just ... plug them in?

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Haven't people been worrying about this since like the 50's? AI technology
advancement seems more of a joke than battery technology advancement.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:38:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Like, c'mon, 2001: A Space Odyssey came out in 1969, and we just barely
invented iPads not that long ago.

Class: geofft Instance: ua-council
Time: Sun Mar  4 17:46:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm impressed. If the UA is full of people who are adamant about
ignoring the constitution instead of amending it... it might actually
work this time.

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 18:39:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: When did Motley Crue become classic rock? And when did Ozzy become an actor? <eichin>

(starking) my 7-year-old mini cooper also has a
tire-pressure dashboard light, and I thought rfid-based tire-pressure
monitoring was becoming the norm, rather than a high end
feature... I've certainly had cheap rental cars display "pressure low,
left-front, 23psi" on the dashboard recently...

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 18:40:06 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i thought rental fleets did it so you'd hopefully not keep driving the
car to the point of unsafety

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 18:43:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The site powered by @b(cat) and @b(^D).   Editors are for wimps <eichin>

sure, but this was an obviously factory feature on
a fairly boring 4door

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 18:45:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Be an optimist -- at least until they start bringing animals in pairs to Cape Canaveral. <eichin>

(wasn't a scion, the other recent
"station-wagon-like" thing - HHB? something like that but google is
failing me)

Class: geofft Instance: cars.d
Time: Sun Mar  4 19:19:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I believe there is a regulatory obligation to put in tire pressure
monitoring

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Mar  4 19:41:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

How do you like the kidspc, Geoff?
(My intelligent but nontechnical parents have a need for a cheap but
sturdy laptop; I'm wondering whether to recommend it.)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 20:32:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: faith based computing <eichin>

(starking) re that nytimes smartcar article: wow, my
mini cooper gets 28-30mpg reliably, and I drive it relatively hard,
not mileage-optimizing at all

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 20:34:29 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: special weapons observation remote reconnaissance direct action system (SWORDS) <eichin>

(that's with 120k miles on it, but not the /S model)

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 20:55:28 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

starking: on my ~400 mile roundtrip to CT carrying a 150-pound elly and 50-pound dog, I
averaged 42.6 mpg in my prius. I wouldn't believe a claim that you could
get 50+mpg unless you tried *really* hard.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 22:03:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I heard something once that the test used to determine the advertised mileage is obsolete
and doesn't account for certain things that have become common since the
70's, like air conditioning. I haven't actually researched this, though.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 22:04:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have also heard that it is a poor predicter of actual fuel
consumption rates.

Class: geofft Instance: cars
Time: Sun Mar  4 22:11:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Infantry Weapons) <eichin>

I recall a lot of talk when the hybrids first hit,
that the EPA test didn't match them well, but I don't remember the
details. (In particular, at the time it was a bench/lab test, not a
"drive around for a week" test)

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:13:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's been working reasonably well for me. Three of the four
corner-protector things have broken off, and it's fallen a few times,
but it's in very good condition and it's been like 10 months? I
haven't had performance issues, technically, but e.g. my coworkers
are disappointed in how much RANM it has

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:13:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft, for most people a laptop still looks new at 10 months.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:14:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The one down-ish side is that it has circuitry to stall the machine
(?) for a second or two if there are a lot of vibrations, which means
that it's unusable on SafeRide.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:16:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

heh. I guess my point is despite the loss of physical pieces, all the
components are fine ergo it's working

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:16:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also,, spillproof keyboard has been awesome on at least one occasion
(although I guess you can get that aftermarket for $cheap?)

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:38:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So kyoki mentioned she was interested in being dragged to church but
wasn't free this morning, so on my phone last night I found a church
that had a 6 PM service. I figured 6 PM, Protestant, probably caters
to an equally lateshifted crows. Turns out that on my phone I'd
missed they identify as fundamentalist. We get there and there are
ushers in suit and tie, so I am feeling insufficiently conservatively
dressed in jeans and Jacky is just hopeless. There's a tract in the
bulletin, one of like five inserts, about how Jesus is better than
LSD. The sermon, which was probably about an hour long, is titled
"Foundations of Fundamentalism", part of a series. (The morning
sermon, incidentally, was "What We Know About God With Absolute
Certainty.") and is basically about how dispensationalism is right
and covenant theology is wrong, not with reference to the tenets of
either, but on the grounds that dispensationalism, allegedly, takes
the Bible more literally. We get a three-page handout on the topic. I
have never heard -- or repeated after the pastor -- the word
"hermeneutics" so many times in my life.

We may be looking for another church.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:38:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I got some Body and Blood out of it, which is most of why I
showed up.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:40:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(They were at least consistent about the literalism and believe in
transubstantiation, which I'd not realized that mainline Protestants
in the US did. They're Baptist, and I'm going to guess Southern)

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:42:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

*guffaws*

Geoff, if you ever decide to convert to either Islam or Judaism,
can you keep a blog about it?

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:44:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha. I should potwntially blog this

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:45:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although at the moment I'm more likely to go Eastern Orthodox, if I
convert to anything.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:49:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

you forgot to mention the police

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:50:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I had actually completely forgotten about that!

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:51:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did you actually see what happened? I felt awkward turning to look.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:51:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I mean, they kind of prodded the guy up (awake?) and he left with them

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:51:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

there wasn't actually any handcuffing or rights reading

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:52:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

although there might have been some of that outside. I wasn't clear if it was an
actual arrest or a get out of the church thing

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:52:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Was he there from the beginning of the service...?

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:52:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

it was probably just kicking him out, arrests are effort.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:52:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, I think so

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:52:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I noticed him when I came in because he looked so scruffy compared to everyone
else

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:53:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I wonder if they were waiting for the police and that's why the
service started late.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Hah, Tom was Tom

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:54:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

mix?

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:54:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Huh. I remember the resurrect Gloria plot. I didn't realize there were
other resurrection things possible in game

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:54:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

erm, mix

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:55:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: mrow <catthu>

Shawn, stop talking on the wrong class :p

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:55:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It does sound like whatever you're mixing about was less surreal

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:55:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i "and then the priest summoned Cthulhu"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar  5 02:59:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, 9am parking, -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:18:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot story has been bugging me lately. I'm
not sure what the right takeaway is: "decide that relationships all
suck or that everyone should be poly", while consistent, seems not
really the right conclusion

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:18:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I think the real tl;dr is don't rush into things/arrange things.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:18:46 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The version where Guinevere falls in love with Lancelot?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:19:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I mean, she doesn't love Arthur but is married to him. He doesn't really
love her either. I think you can use pretty "normal" explanations for
why that led to trouble.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:22:05 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

This is extra amusing because I've been watching old episodes of
Merlin recently.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:24:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, they clearly don't hate each other and if Lancelot didn't
exist this would have worked. But it's more that Arthur was basically
personally wanting to be okay with the whole thing, but couldn't be

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:24:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

"don't hate each other" is a pretty shit basis for a
relationship/marriage, though.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:25:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At least in the version I'm familiar with of the myth (which is
largely T.H. White's), Arthur is really sad that, as king and
upholder of the laws, he has to break the affair off and punish
Lancelot, because Lancelot's a good friend

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:25:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I guess I woudln't want to, say, even go out to dinner with someone 2x a
week if all we had was "I don't hate you and vice versa" because that
sounds pretty angst inducing based *solely* on how boring it would be.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:26:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

geofft: I think that's somewhat untraditional.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:26:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I never got the impression that Arthur/Guinevere was loveless, or
that whether it was was crucial to the story.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:27:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

maybe I misread or heard an English teacher with strange conclusions.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:29:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I'm not sure it was totally loveless, they were mostly civil IIRC, but
her passion clearly lied with lancelot in most versions and very little
with arthur.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:30:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Related-ish point, on one of the Christian contemporary stations,
there was this one of your usual "is he talking about God or his
girlfriend" songs, and it disambiguated when he said something to the
effect of "make me love what you love". Which... yes, I realize the
theological position that God's love is so much more perfect than
human love, but this is a thing that's essentially not possible in
human romantic love, and if anything _more_ possible in friendship
love! That seems strange.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:34:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is music so heteronormative? Like, why is Stars a guy and a girl?
Why was "Moves like Jagger" a collaboration between a band with a
male lead and a female singer? etc.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:34:50 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Because American society is heteronormative.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:34:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The _only_ counterexample I can think of is t.A.T.u.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:35:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Because different voice parts sound cool together!

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:35:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

t.A.T.u is from Russia, they break everything.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:35:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

phurst: That doesn't really explain the indie bands.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:36:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lizdenys: sure, but why not a tenor and a bass? Two altos and a
tenor? etc.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:37:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Have you heard that many actual basses in pop music? Or sopranos?

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 11:37:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

One of my favorite bands has a bass, but he also doesn't sing about
things in any romanticized way

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:09:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

These people are prompt with their parking tickets. "Good to know"

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:34:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's true, all pop singers have higher ranges than me

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:48:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Alas

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:55:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey Asheesh, are you still around? I can't get a visitor pass because
I don't have a proof of residency. Apparently for the first time in
my life I _want_ paper bank statements

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:55:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Credit cards don't count, which confuses me)

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:55:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(See above, "credit cards suck")

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:57:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am at homee

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:59:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I can give you a PG&E "Asheesh started service" note.

Class: geofft Instance: parking
Time: Mon Mar  5 12:59:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

etc. Probably best to call me by phone.

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:08:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, now I'm confused

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:09:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

if I try to reply-all from geofft@ldpreload.com to another address
@ldpreload.com, it suppresses it?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:09:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really have no idea how I set up roles

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:10:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This is why they're terrible and you should go use Gmail

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:27:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gah why are there so many emails over the weekend

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 14:33:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, can we cut it out with the "sent from my iPad"

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:03:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, LL and Hanscom are at the same place? I missed that

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:04:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:13:03 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The pen is mightier than the sword!  And my pen is bigger than your pen! <eichin>

same place? kind of.  The Lincoln offices "at" Hanscom
are down a side road... you take the same bus to get there.

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:14:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I put my eigenvector through your mom's critical point last night." - avenerm <jessiehl>

LL is technically part of Hanscom, though you don't go through the
same entrance.

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:16:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you qualify your use of "Hanscom" with one of "Field" or "AFB",
this becomes less confusing

Class: geofft Instance: ma
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:22:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: main(a){while(a=~getchar())putchar(~a-1/(~(a|32)/13*2-11)*13);} <eichin>

huh. "20 acres of MIT property contiguous with the Hanscom Air Force Base"
and a total of 75 acres, the rest being in Lexington

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar  5 16:42:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I like how I don't get to work until 1:30 regardless of whether I
wake up at 8 or noon

Class: geofft Instance: work.benefits.q
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:09:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"accidental death and dismemberment (AD&D) coverage"

Class: geofft Instance: work.benefits.q
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:09:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i I believe the acronym you're looking for is TPK

Class: geofft Instance: work.benefits.q
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:09:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's pretty standard.

Class: geofft Instance: work.benefits.q
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:09:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*abbreviation

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:31:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey zephyr, opinions about this Kaiser Permanente thing? The concept
appeals to me in the abstract, but I have no idea if that's
positively or negatively correlated with what I actually want to sign
up for.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:33:53 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

if everything you want is in their network, I hear they are great

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:35:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I don't actually know what I want. "I want my wisdom teeth
removed and my allergies to magically disappear" I don't actually
have any interesting medical issues or an expectation of developing any

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:36:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You're aware that HMOs require you to always see your PCP before you
can see a specialist, right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:38:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Whoa, you don't want that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:40:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(i.e. if you want to see an oral surgeon about getting your wisdom
teeth removed, you have to first get an appointment and see your PCP,
who "refers" you to the oral surgeon. If you want to see an allergist,
you have to first see your PCP, then go to the allergist)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:40:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, is that true from Kaiser? (We have another HMO option that is not
Kaiser)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:42:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I thought HMO was all Kaiser did

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:42:54 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

I'm pretty sure that Kaiser lets you just phonecall your pcp to get
referred to anywhere in the kaiser network. they're a vertically
integrated HMO, so they don't have to worry about paying different
practices

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:43:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think you may be correct, but nothing seems particularly explicit
about that. (It seems to me that it wouldn't be hard for them not to
have that rule, but they might)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 17:56:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This certainly sounds more interesting than a "Health Savings
Account", whatever that is, which I understand is the correct option
for healthy people but involves like talking to your bank and
thinking about taxes?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:00:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Health spending accounts are awesome, too...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:00:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

err, I think I'm talking about FSA

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:15 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A health savings account is cool, but even if you're healthy you
definitely want to combine it with some kind of insurance.  E.g.
high-deductible insurance.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Right, which is what ours is paired with

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They generally come paired.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I also feel like if I put money in an HSA, it goes nowhere useful if
I don't use it, and if I pay money Kaiser, it goes to Kaiser if I
don't use it, and so I have a moral obligation to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(-c geofft, please feel free to call me out on my completely insane
"moral obligations", you're good at that)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It has been my experience that HSA+HDHPs are awful ripoffs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:02:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You have dumb moral obligations

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:04:15 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That could kind of make sense if you were talking about buying some
object that had to be produced, but you're talking about moving money
between database rows at a bank.  The world in aggregate doesn't lose
even if the money somehow disappears.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:04:44 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And I doubt it can actually disappear; the world in aggregate certainly
doesn't lose if it reverts to some other database row.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:04:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Where does the money go?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:05:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, apparently HSA money accumulates and health FSA money doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:05:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It has gone where the woodbine twineth"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:05:29 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think FSA money actually just reverts to your employer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:08:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

New question: what are people my age supposed to do about life
insurance? List their parents as beneficiaries?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:08:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's what I've always done.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:13:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... this document is called "Initial COBRA Notification". I'm
disappointed it appears to have nothing to do with G.I. Joe

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:14:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, abbreviating "short term disability" as "STD" seems silly

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:15:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mostly because I assume I also have some form of actual-STD insurance

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:32:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Some day when I'm bored I should write up "The X Core Protocol:
Presented In An Actually Sane Format (Insofar As Reimplementing The X
Protocol Is Sane) Unlike The Documentation"

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:33:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:33:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you're implementing it, you basically want to read the bottom of
the document first, and then the top, and then the middle, and then
the bottom

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:34:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though I guess you care about different things than I do. I mostly
wanted the "The X Core Protocol: Presented In The Format You Want If
You're Writing A Window Manager (Which Why Are You Doing That, Again?)"

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:34:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which is basically a very different order from what I care about (I
think).

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:35:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, I think so. Also, I may be screwed because I realistically would
want some parts of ICCCM/EWMH mixed in

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:35:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which I think is like middle, top, then go read Composite, then go
read ICCCM. ==

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:35:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And maybe go read Xlib/XCB docs at some point.

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:36:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Some day when I'm _really_ bored I should try porting XMonad to the
pure-Haskell XCB bindings

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:36:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(instead of using the FFI to xlib)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:41:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Thank you in advance for being awesome,"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Mon Mar  5 18:41:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like the hacker community is devaluing "awesome", but... I'm
not sure I mind.

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:04:01 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

You should write a nice Haskell library for writing window managers

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:04:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You mean... xmonad?

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:04:39 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

People say XMonad is that, but the assumption of dynamic tiling and
the StackSet abstraction are too baked in for my taste

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:04:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Don't write your own window manager!

Class: geofft Instance: broder.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:04:52 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Can you write a nice static tiling WM on top of XMonad?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:18:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.java.com/ totally looks like it's some random sketchy
domain squatter

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:19:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, wat, why does it attempt to install random toolbars

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:20:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Doesn't Oracle have enough money without selling out to sketchy
toolbar people?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:20:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yes, but they have an image to maintain.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:20:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:21:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"And I'm considering working for these guys?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:22:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, cool, if I go to the first Bing result for "java jdk" (which is,
like
oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/mumble/mumble/mumble)
and click to get just the JRE, I get a very similar installer that
does not attempt to install any toolbars

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:22:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"you should work for us, our software removes random browser toolbars"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:28:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:38:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh cool, someone implemented the hidden feature I wanted already.
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:38:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

That emoticon. what.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:38:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's the "put the table back down" emoticon!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:40:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lol, FINDSTR has the same "if I said recursive, I don't mean
recursively grep stdin" bug as GNU grep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:54:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
           java [@<@color(red)===========>]@<@color(red) (11/10)>

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Mar  5 19:54:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
     enterprise [@<@color(yellow)======    >]@<@color(yellow) (6/10)>

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Mon Mar  5 20:38:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wtf Tavener why did you just put a Phantom of the Opera chord in the
middle of what was up to this point a nice a cappella thing? I
realize they were chanting Latin _but still_

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Mon Mar  5 20:38:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, how are you supposed to perform this? The organist just chills
for ten minutes?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:14:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, we're using GoDaddy as our registrar. Maybe I should convince
ops to switch

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:28:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait what why is my homedir full of junction points

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:29:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because you put them there?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:30:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:30:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Application Data is a junction point for AppData\Roaming, and Local
Settings for AppData\Local

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:30:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My Documents is a junction point for Documents, which I guess makes
sense?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:31:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and then everything like Start Menu is a junction point for e.g.
AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:31:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Presumably hysterical raisins are involved.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:35:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wat, the WANdisco svn build includes a diff(1)?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 21:54:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o my kvm screen got much much less blurry when I made my window
1679x1049 instead of 1680x1050

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:27:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm slightly surprised that "foo < bar baz" works the way I'd want
(namely, equivalent to "foo baz < bar"), but awesome

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:27:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Command line parsing is complicated.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:35:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Why would you buy life insurance if you
don't have dependents?

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:35:46 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Idealism has practical real-world applications.  -- Dave Winer <eichin>

only if you try.  if you just give up and treat what
the code did in 1980 as correct, it's easy :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:35:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not a question of buying it. It's usually part of the standard
benefits package.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:36:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(It's really cheap. You're probably not going to die.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:36:27 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

But if it makes you feel any better, whenever you (or anyone else on
your behalf) buys life insurance, they are betting that you will die.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:36:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Catherine A Olsson <catherio>

A small life insurance policy could cover a funeral so nobody you care
about has to pay that money

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:37:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"My parents had any number of opportunities to make that happen
already if they'd wanted to"

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:43:14 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Man, funeral expenses are the worst.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Mar  5 22:45:34 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

It's like, Grandpa's dead, (1) are you guys really going to have a
party for that? OK, but (2) do we really going to spend 15% of
Grandma's net worth on that? She's got other stuff going on.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:35:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, funeral costs seem like the reason to get it. Also I don't
believe I save anything by opting out, or that I basically can

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:37:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

After discovering that, I have increasingly been a fan of
<bar foo baz

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:39:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That syntax is awesome too. I just didn't expect infix redirection to work

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:45:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"• Caltrain shall have the right to terminate this agreement for its
convenience."

That's... a little more shameless than I see in most contracts

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:46:48 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Are they part of the government, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:47:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They apparently have Amtrak as a contractor, which means I don't
really want to think about how they relate to the government because
it'll make my brain hurt.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:47:27 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

HOLY COW re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrain#Fatalities

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:47:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"They're probably funded by In-Q-Tel."

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:47:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, Caltrain is apparently a remarkably convenient way to commit
suicide around here

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:50:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the stats say that a train operator has one fatality per year
on average?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:51:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

.... and, after you're commuting on the caltrain every single day in
and day out you'll sadly just get angry when there's a suicide

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:51:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He's not joking.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:51:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Hey, I hear you live across the street. (Joshua)

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:52:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Indeed I do (down the street, anyway), though I am in LA at the
moment.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:54:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...how is caltrain not electrified yet? *boggle*

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:54:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because it doesn't have enough funding, because nobody likes funding
public transit?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:55:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

what do you mean by electrified?  the trains have power for your
laptop. n.n

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:55:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Trains powered by catenary or third rail instead of burning diesel.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:56:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Quieter, smoother acceleration, no diesel fumes, &c, &c.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:56:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Admittedly, I ask the same question every time I come into Boston, so
it's entirely possible that the NY metro area is unusually "advanced"
there.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:57:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

forgive a naive question, but, isn't that only in not-the US or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:57:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:57:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

where else in the US has electric heavy rail trains that go ~75mph?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:58:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

All but two of the NJ Transit lines, most of the LIRR lines, and most
of Metro-North is electrified

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:58:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... you really don't complain if I set both my password and password
hint to "password"?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:59:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We still have the 79mph speed limit, but even that may finally die a
well-deserved death soon on the NEC.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:59:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Oh, also, the northeast corridor is electrified between at least
Boston and DC. I think maybe even down to Newport News?)

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Mar  5 23:59:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Huh.  I didn't know.  I've always just associated amtrak trains with
diesel.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:00:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I've always associated them with electrics, albeit mostly really old
ones"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:00:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Anyway, what I really want instead of caltrain is the trans california
high speed rail line but ....

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:00:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, your NIMBYs do keep forcing expensive alignment changes on that
one.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:04:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I saw this tiny gas station the other day with a "don't railroad us!"
sign in front of it. Dear tiny gas station: move.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:06:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also people are whining that this will involve cutting down the tree
named "Palo Alto" (for which the town was named). Boo hoo, call the
waaahmbucaltrain.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:11:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: carnivorous plant latte <eichin>

I was going to say "new haven to boston used to be
diesel" but apparently that project finished back in 2000 

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:48:15 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

SEPTA commuter rail in Philly is electrified, as is one Metra line in
Chicago

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:49:34 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Also, "heavy rail" would typically include many subway / rapid transit
systems

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 00:52:17 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Though this seems to be a UK vs US usage distinction

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 01:19:59 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Also there is a 12km electrified freight line in Mason City, Iowa
http://world.nycsubway.org/us/iowa/index.html

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Mar  6 09:16:44 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Also there is a 12km electrified freight line in Mason City,
Iowa

yeah, i was sad i didn't get there to photograph it when i was in iowa
in 2010

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:16:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh, apparently you can print your own temporary parking passes now.
I totally wanted this for ZipCars all the time

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:16:42 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

Link?

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:18:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swap The Wave <kchen>

Parkers who need to bring a rental or replacement car to campus may
now print their own Temporary Permits at
https://commuting.mit.edu/parking/.  It’s easy.  Just click the
appropriate link for “Faculty Staff and Affiliate commuting” or
“Student Commuting”, enter the vehicle information, print a temporary
pass and place it on the dashboard when parking on campus. Temporary
permits can be printed for a period of 1 or 2 days.  Parkers should
contact the parking office if they require a permit for 3 days or
longer.

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:18:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I think this is only if you already have parking access.

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:18:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==oremanj

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ends Cross Fold <kchen>

Presumably it'd still work with an Occasional Parking Permit.

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:21:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I would totally pay for on-campus parking, I just needed a
"shut up and take my money" button

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:22:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Admittedly, SFMTA was bad about shutting up and taking my money
yesterday (a credit card bill is apparently not a bank statement re
proof of residency?), so MIT's not alone here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:23:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woke up at 7 AM. Still got to work after noon.

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:24:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I don't understand why governments are so stupid about what
constitutes proof of residency.  THey seem to be under the
misapprehension that the USPS won't deliver if the names on the
mailbox don't match the names on the letter.  Makes me wonder if
they've ever lived in a city before.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:25:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

that sounds like the caption to an advice animal.  

"clearly this is an indication that I spend too much time on the
internet"

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:25:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You'd think a lease would be _better_ than two pieces of junk mail.
If someone wants to pay $1400/month to get an apartment in order to
get a Cambridge parking permit, good for them.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:25:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I will not object to an Advice Geofft bot that automatically forwards
everything I zephyr to memegenerator

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:25:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Catch 3 <kchen>

I'd speculate the concern is that a lease is easily faked.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:25:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, admittedly, I went to a cafe, a bookstore, a grocery store, a
shopping mall, and a Costco on the way. Also I attempted to get on
the highway at 9 AM, which was... surprisingly not bad until 9:20 AM

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:37:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

'You might even have a conversation with yourself that goes a little
like, "Are... you my conscience?" "Yeah, yeah. I'm your conscience.
We haven't spoken for a while. How are you?" "Hmm, can't complain."
(Note: I do not actually recommend nor condone this as a sufficient
examination of conscience before confession.)'

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:51:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This one goes to MokaEleven.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:52:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:53:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... I didn't even run any VMs and I crashed VMware, how is that even
possible

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:56:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... dammit people are buying domain names corresponding to windows
errnos for SEO/sketchware now? I hate the world
http://www.0xc0000005.net/

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:56:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

what is this i don't even

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:58:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Back in my day, we bought errno domain names like einval.com as
vanity domains because they were cool

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:58:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, enoent.com is available? Someone should buy it

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 15:59:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What, and make it always serve up a 404?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:02:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

There's tons of errno values available!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:02:36 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

edoofus.com is squatted, though. :(

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:02:41 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Hahaha I love it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:04:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I am oddly tempted to purchase eprotonosupport.com and arrange it to
respond to all incoming traffic with ICMP DESTINATION UNREACHABLE
(code=2, PROTOCOL UNREACHABLE).

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:04:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:04:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:05:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That would be potentially the nerdiest joke I would ever make.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:05:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

you know you want to

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:05:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

similarly for EHOSTUNREACH.COM, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:06:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Instead I will tweet about it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:07:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

If you like these domain name jokes, you might like my
http://jonpos.tel/ site.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:09:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

nelhage, you really need to get erfkill.com

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:10:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Oddly tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:12:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:40:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I bet implementing random new features in NetworkManager so that I
can more easily debug this Java deadlock on Windows is the wrong answer

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:40:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"I know those words, but that sentence makes no sense"

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:41:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What what in the what?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:41:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It totally made sense in my head! See also instance

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:43:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I have a somewhat serious question that's halfway down that
yakstack -- anyone know how registering your self-claimed hostname in
your company's DNS server works?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:44:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Your DHCP server talks to your DNS server?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:44:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This has always Just Worked for me, and I have no idea _how_. And if
I stop using NetworkManager and switch to ifupdown, I feel like I'll
break it

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:44:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, ...

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:44:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Your hostname is one of the DHCP options you send

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:44:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I see. OK, nifty

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:45:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass The Ocean <kchen>

My /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf has:
send host-name "<hostname>";

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:45:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Right, that

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:45:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Note: NetworkManager writes its own dhclient.conf and doesn't use
/etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf; it hard-codes the current hostname in that
file)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:46:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(...though it appears to do something weird and fancy with the system
config file)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:46:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The fact that dhclient and not like Avahi or some other random sekrit
Lennartism does this is the relevant bit, which means I can switch to
ifupdown

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:46:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...why do you want to?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Note 2: At least as of a while ago, the ability to write ‘send
host-name "<hostname>";’ was an Ubuntu/Fedora-specific patch.)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:48:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because NetworkManager doesn't support network bridges, and to get my
local build of said Java app visible from the rest of the network (so
I can, like, point clients at it) I need to switch to bridged
networking or do horrible things with port forwarding

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:49:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah, ok

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:50:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hence, writing bridge support for NM, which is where we started the
thread :)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2012-February/msg00021.html

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Though I'm not clear on the state of that patchset (I don't think it's
been merged)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(I also don't know if it does anything useful)

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Doesn't Windows also do a DDNS update thing?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

In fact, isn't that why ddns exists now?

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:51:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

glasgall: Maybe, but at least on our network here, sending your
hostname to the DHCP server is sufficient to get the DNS records updated

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:52:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It was also the case at at least Akamai, possibly VMware too

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:52:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I remember definitely having to 'net ads dns register' at WG to get a
hostname.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:53:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Admittedly, Akamai tends to get DNS stuff right."

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:53:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Admittedly, their network was failarious on multiple levels.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Tue Mar  6 16:53:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aww, clickjacking protection broke jqueery.

Class: geofft Instance: yak-shaving
Time: Tue Mar  6 17:27:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, what part of Debian policy is okay with /etc/qemu-if{up,down}?

Class: geofft Instance: mit.parking
Time: Tue Mar  6 17:50:16 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

doesn't currently work :( - my permit has been stuck in 'submitted'
for a week and a half :/

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Mar  6 17:52:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... /vmlinuz isn't world-readable? damn you keeeeeeeees

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:09:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why does my machine not boot any more?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:09:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.xkcd.com/349/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:11:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

All I did was edit /etc/network/interfaces

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:27:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whooo! Got everything working.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:30:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Specifically,

iface eth0 inet manual
auto br0
iface br0 inet dhcp
  bridge_ports eth0 tap_myvm
auto tap_myvm
iface tap_myvm inet manual
  pre-up    /sbin/ip tuntap add dev tap_myvm mode tap user foo group foo
  post-down /sbin/ip tuntap del dev tap_myvm

and then
qemu -net nic -net tap,ifname=tap_myvm,script=no,downscript=no
works fine unprivileged.

"And now you know."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:55:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh, saw the abbreviation "mgmt" in our code and now I will have
"Kids" stuck in my head the entire day

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:55:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

DOOT DOOT DOOT DOOT DOO-DE DOO DOO DOOOOO

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 18:56:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I will always assosiate that song with REX

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 19:31:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Today is full of dumb problems. I think the last few days too

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 19:32:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

like what does "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" even mean?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 19:33:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

Microsoft hates you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 19:33:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(obsnark: "It means you should switch to Chrome")

Class: geofft Instance: work.documentation.q
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:20:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The rest should be self-explanatory. Ha."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:24:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I was reading /r/atheism earlier today (I know, I know, I wasn't
logged in and decided logging in was a worse idea) and saw a link to
a passage from @i(The Audacity of Hope) where Obama describes how the
Christian conservatives isolated themselves from the rest of the
nation in the '50s and '60s until they were forced to care: "... a
parallel universe emerged, a world not only of revivals and thriving
ministries but also of Christian television, radio, universities,
publishers, and entertainment, all of which allowed the devout to
ignore the popular culture as surely as they were being ignored."

Java feels like that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:28:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also, ttants, service foo stop, net stop foo

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:33:22 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hahaha, that's a great analogy.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:33:58 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You should tweet it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:34:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I can't fit that in 140 characters :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:34:39 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Well, it did make it into hatepaste,
http://hatepaste.com/paste/811902ee

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:43:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://marshill.com/2012/03/04/did-jesus-die-for-your-porn-addiction

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:43:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

You know mars hill, right?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:44:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, this is not the first time I've gone "wat" at them

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:44:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I've also been there once)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:44:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I don't know them

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:45:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

what's up with them?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:45:58 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Jeez, is ironing your pants one of those Leviticus requirements or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:46:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Look at the Google autocomplete suggestions for "mark driscoll is a".

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:46:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... interesting

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:47:09 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

omg adordable if I want to join their church and am a senior pastor at
my church I can do so by filling out a Web form
https://mhcseattle.wufoo.com/forms/join-mars-hill-church/

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:47:28 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Rob Bell wrote a book called Love Wins among other things
that some people think is cool and other people think is
the most horrible thing done to christianity so far this
century.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

He's the senior minister there, or was

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:11 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I don't get it re:
http://persiflagethis.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-are-they-gunning-for-mark-driscoll.html

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tibbetts: Wait, you're confused. That's Mars Hill Bible Church, not
Mars Hill Church.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:21 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

"Mark Driscoll: is the pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle,
Washington (do not get this confused with Rob Bell's Mars Hill Bible
"Church" in Grand Rapids, Michigan)"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and that's in Minnesota or somewhere, not Seattle

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Oh, my bad.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:48:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Rob Bell is too liberal for the conservatives; Mark Driscoll is too
conservative for the liberals.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:49:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

just scanning that article, it seems to be saying that looking at porn doesn't
damn you or something, right?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:49:48 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Heh. Our church read Rob Bell in a book group and was like
"this guy seems to be trying to help angry christians be
less angry. I guess that might be helpful for them."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:50:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Or at least that was my take.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:50:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Anyway, I'm unfamiliar with Mark Discoll

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:50:34 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

I don't understand how the things he writes translate into coherent
thoughts that convey meaning.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:50:57 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Here is is quoted discussing Ted Haggard's homosexual relationship
with a gay prostitute: "Most pastors I know do not have satisfying,
free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the
risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will
lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not
uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they
sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is
therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness.
A wife who lets herself go, and is not sexually available to her
husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about, is not
responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him
either."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:51:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

anyway, this church's site seems fairly obsessed with porn, which is kind of
confusing

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:51:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Porn obsession is popular

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:51:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:52:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

It's probably easier to make your congregants feel guilty
about their porn than about any other behavior.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:53:27 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Wow, in Alexa's global top 100 sites, Pinterest (#48) is above the
first porn sites (#53 and #56), http://www.alexa.com/topsites.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:53:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

Pinterest has gotten crazy popular in a very small amount of time

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:54:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Cool, private browsing mode works.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:54:20 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Pinterest is porn for housewives.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:54:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Possibly also female hipsters

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:54:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I'm neither!

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:54:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

although I guess some people might consider me a hipster ...

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Denial is the first step in hipster identity

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

so I hear

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:27 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

I was into being into stuff before it was cool a long time before that
was a hipster trait.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I do wear skinny jeans ... but I don't have a beard

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

or a fixie

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What is a Pinterest?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:55:55 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

I looked down on hipsters when their subculture was
confined to ypsilanti, michigan

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:56:16 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

http://pinterest.com/ tumblr for home decorating and
fashion and the like

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:56:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

the fashion is boring though!

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:56:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

mherdeg:  you were into things before they were cool, before that was
cool?  How meta.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:56:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hipster recursion is Not Allowed

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:57:02 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Stack too deep, man.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:57:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I'm still skeptical about that rule, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:57:44 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

I wonder whether maybe Pinterest appeals to the same personality
traits that made the MIT student photography club so popular --
some folks really enjoy scrapbooking.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:58:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The problem is you get into "I was into infinitely recursing '''...'
before they were cool' before it was cool', before it was cool", and
then you're at Hipster Level Aleph-One.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 20:59:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And we CANNOT ALLOW TRANSFINITE HIPSTERS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:03:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, finally got the Java SQL app (installed with a Java installer)
working by adding a JAR file so the Java classloader could connect to
the Java database server over JDBC so I could use a Java UI to update
the Java-specific embedded database to tell the Java webapp behind
the Java web server to change its hostname. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:04:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now I can finally _install the C++ code using a C installer and get
on with writing Objective-C_ wooooooo. At this point I am happy about
any language with "C" in its name including COBOL

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:19:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Wow, this Mark Driscoll guy has quite an attitude.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:20:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:21:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

" Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a
limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His
hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about
life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In
Revelation, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His
leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone
bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the
hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy
I can beat up."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:23:04 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

In fairness, the dude gets beaten up very infrequently in canon.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:23:09 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Like, at most 39 times.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:23:20 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

++

Class: geofft Instance: eip.wat
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 21:46:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It might be time to eat something

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 22:58:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pro tip, if you're eating because you're too hungry to code, you're
_definitely_ too hungry to drive

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar  6 22:59:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I definitely pulled the turn signal in the wrong direction twice and
went "wait, why are my full beams turning on" before figuring it out

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Mar  6 23:20:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was impressed that the Barnes & Noble I stopped at this morning had
a "New Teen Paranormal Romance" shelf in addition to two "Teen
Paranormal Romance" ones

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Mar  6 23:21:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Paul W. Quimby <pquimby>

Which is different from "Teen Paranormal Fiction".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 23:21:21 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> I can't fit that in 140 characters :(

Yeah, what I really mean is "you should find a pithy way to express
that", because I want to be able to repeat it effectively.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Mar  6 23:22:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

As opposed to teen paranormal *non*fiction?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar  6 23:33:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am getting so confused by using Linux, Windows, and OS X at the
same time from the same keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 02:47:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 13:05:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

..PyCon!? -> work

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 13:05:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"strange things happen when you have a car"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 13:46:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ikea. Still not quite work

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 14:47:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

Hey geofft, so today I sat in on a grad student talk where they intercept
all FS calls from the virtual machine to provide continuous
instrumentation on virtual machine behavior, i.e. "what files are being
edited", etc.

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 14:48:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, really? That...was totally my UAP project

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 14:48:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Single! <ezyang>

Yeah, I thought this was kind of obvious.

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 14:49:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

I think they might also be doing continuous snapshotting this way?

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:04:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do they actually do anything interesting at the hypervisor level?
(i.e., where does "VM" come into play? we do something similar with a
guest driver that afaict would work just fine on hardware, although
it's way more convenient in a VM)

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:04:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Mine worked by patching the read/write routines in qemu

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:06:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, what was your end goal? That sounds like block driver calls

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:07:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Mirror the data structures of the filesystem on the host so you
couldn't be out-rootkited

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:08:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, ok. Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: stupid.vm.tricks
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:08:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The more obvious trick in my eyes is to just use a network filesystem
as the root.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:25:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

context switches are killing performance. namely, it takes me about
an hour or two to remember what I was doing when I left

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:26:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jessiehl / elsewhere / jessiehl  2012-03-07 15:26  (this is my world and
    Apparently biphobia is alive and well in the organized MIT LBGT
    community! :/
dvp / personal / dvp  2012-03-07 15:26  (dvp on the command line)
    why is my class so full of GROSS BOYS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:55:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Things that are not Linux, partial list:
 - Windows
 - Mac OS X

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:56:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If things keep going as they have been, work will be expecting me to
use Solaris or BeOS next week

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:57:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oooh, if you do Solaris, then we can go back to 2 platforms if we ever
adopt MokaFive

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:57:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We support Solaris!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:57:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

By which I mean, the LivePC creation window lets you pick Solaris,
presumably because the VMware VM creation window does and we just
expose a wrapper around that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:59:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... hm, do VMware guest tools even exist for Solaris?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 15:59:59 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 16:00:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wacky.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Mar  7 16:01:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, why did we get rid of nspluginwrapper?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Mar  7 16:01:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because 64-bit flash happened.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed Mar  7 16:05:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

geofft, you say this as if it isn't a good thing. :-þ

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:02:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, why is everything Java-related run by apache.org

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:02:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

_everything_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:07:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I suspect I want to figure out what a "classloader" is.

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:27:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

diff -u <(cat /proc/self/maps) <(cat /proc/self/maps) | grep ^" "

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:31:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

All matching mappings that are listed within three lines of a
nonmatching mapping?

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:34:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Blame kees, not me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:37:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oops, I bet I shouldn't run multiple VMs with the same MAC

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:39:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

(stark) Clearly you need to start running SingularityOS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 17:39:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, can you do nested virtualization in Singularity more easily and
without hardware support? (Is there even a point to virtualization?)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:09:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoaaaaaa I just used Map Network Drive on a WebDAV share and I can
cd into it now

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:09:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's kind of stupidly slow. But it works

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:12:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

S:\home>dir
 Volume in drive S has no label.

 Directory of S:\home

02/07/2012  12:40 PM    <DIR>          .
02/07/2012  12:40 PM    <DIR>          ..
03/07/2012  03:02 PM    <DIR>          gthomas
               0 File(s)              0 bytes
               3 Dir(s)   2,372,313,088 bytes free

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:12:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm more excited about this than I should be

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:15:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also windows multiarch is still dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: n-u-o-c
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:20:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Nice, I like that.  kees++

Class: geofft Instance: n-u-o-c
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:22:50 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

How about one of

  (cat /proc/self/maps; cat /proc/self/maps) | sort | uniq -d
  cat /proc/self/maps <(cat /proc/self/maps) | sort | uniq -d

Class: geofft Instance: n-u-o-c
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:23:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

((call/cc "/proc/self/maps") (call/cc "/proc/self/maps"))

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:53:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whoa, that's _weird_

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:53:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Stanford Medicine cafe sells a "monkey mocha", i.e., with banana
syrup.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Wed Mar  7 18:54:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is very strange. But not bad.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:04:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"There's never been a better way to know if your IT contractors and
outsourced staff are solving problems ... or creating them."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:05:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That sort of advertising bothers me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:29:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

can we switch to git yet

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:32:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, we don't know how to deal with prebuilt/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:33:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(I've concluded that git-annex won't work)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:33:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Keep that in svn, and stick everything else in github and use
svn:externals pointed at svn://github.com

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:34:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, where... are you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:34:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't know what prebuilt/ is but it sounds like google figured this
out for android...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:34:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

prebuilt is huge object files that make performance suck.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:34:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

achernya: It's what it sounds like - precompiled binaries. We have
about 5G of them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:35:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Not counting history)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:35:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, Google solvedthis for Android. I think you should look at their
repo.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:35:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because we're Enterprise, we have a lot of precompiled binaries,
random .jars, etc. etc. that we need to version as object files

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:35:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I would buy that overuse of submodules would actually make this
suck less

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:36:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I thought repo was just a reimplementation of svn:externals for git.
How does it solve precompiled binaries? (Rebuilding everything every
time we do a build isn't an option)

geofft: It has nothing to do with Enterprise. It has to do with
targeting platforms that don't have a package manager where we have to
provide all of our own 3rd party dependencies

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:36:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you're not Enterprise, you don't have to support those platforms

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:38:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

broder: I have no idea, but when I was checking out ICS a magic
directory full of gcc toolchain appeared.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:42:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

https://android.googlesource.com/platform/prebuilt

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:42:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

repo just lets you easily fetch a bunch of different
things-that-are-like-submodules. It doesn't address the big binary
problem

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:42:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's a super useful link right there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:43:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's kinda cute that it figures out that you're a browser

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:43:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Well, I'm stil lwaiting for it to finish cloning so I can see what's
actually in there

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:45:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

titanium ~/hackArea/android> cd prebuilt
titanium ~/hackArea/android/prebuilt> ls
android-arm  android-x86   darwin-x86     linux-x86_64  windows
Android.mk   CleanSpec.mk  darwin-x86_64  ndk           windows-x86_64
android-sh   common        linux-x86      sdk
titanium ~/hackArea/android/prebuilt> du -sh .
1.3G    .

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:45:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

confusingly: 
du -sh .git/
3.1M    .git/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:45:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does repo force a shallow-or-worse clone of it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:46:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i.e., can you find a large file in there and see if it exists in the
objects db?

... is repo using the "share my objects db" option?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:47:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

A quick skim of repo's code and...I can't tell.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:47:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Doesn't obviously appear to be

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:48:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> A quick skim of repo's code 

Bad idea, as it turns out

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:49:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It...looks like it tries to get the contents of the repo as a bundle,
and if it can't it just fetches

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:49:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I guess...if the bundle only had partial history?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 19:51:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh wait, it fetches more code, I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar  7 20:22:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should just kidnap someone who knows this code for a day and ask
them questions

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar  7 21:11:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

freetype (2.4.2-2.1+squeeze4) stable-security; urgency=low

  * CVE-2012-11[33|34|36|42|44]

 -- Moritz Muehlenhoff <jmm@debian.org>  Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:46:07 +0100

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar  7 21:11:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That is a totally inadequate changelog entry, not least of which
because it's ungreppable

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 21:21:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> Santa Clara -> Palo Alto -> San Francisco

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 21:21:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I am the sucker with a car.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar  7 22:05:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Palo Alto!

Class: geofft Instance: n-u-o-c
Time: Wed Mar  7 23:28:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

grep -Fxf /proc/self/maps <(grep . /proc/self/maps)

Class: geofft Instance: n-u-o-c
Time: Wed Mar  7 23:29:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Or even
grep . /proc/self/maps | grep -Fxf /proc/self/maps

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  8 03:32:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

adehnert, I passed Paly today! (and then got lost and missed University)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  8 03:33:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You have a Trader Joe's right outside your high school! no fair

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar  8 12:29:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

sightings?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar  8 12:31:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

grah, I bet he's asleep and neither of his housemates are around/awake

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:18:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[I was driving, my phone was dead... I should buy several more
micro-USB cables or something]

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:27:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Given that I basically only ever drink cold coffee drinks, there's no
reason for me to buy any coffee-making devices other than a French
press, right?

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:29:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Buy a French press and coffee grinder.  Cold-brew freshly roasted
coarse-ground coffee in the fridge for 24 hours.  Be happy.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:29:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, a coffee grinder.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:29:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

You don't need a complex or expensive one, just one that will allow
you to vary the coarseness of the grind.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:29:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But yes, I've been happily using a French press (though not with
freshly ground beans) over the last semester or so

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:40:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.supost.com/post/index/102300

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:51:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... how did I end up with IE 9?
... I hate you Windows Update.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:52:18 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You would prefer IE6?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:52:50 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Microsoft and Firefox are in a version number competition

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 14:54:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

IE 5, actually. For Mac. That was an _excellent_ browser.

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Mar  8 15:25:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pretty sure there's actually an off-by-one bug in the graphics driver
or SDL code.

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Mar  8 15:25:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pretty sure this would be no fun to track down.

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Mar  8 15:38:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

What bug?

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Mar  8 15:59:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I have a Windows box at an X by Y resolution, it slightly scales
(read: blurs in the middle) my window if I have it display in an X by
Y window. If I resize the window to X-1 by Y-1, it works fine

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Mar  8 15:59:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is kind of annoying for the "use a VM full-screen on a second
monitor via xmonad" use case, which I do lots of

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 16:08:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The yodoggery is _really slow_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 16:28:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does this code... work?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 16:29:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Never.

Class: geofft Instance: work.commit-message.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 16:42:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"kill trunk in the face"

Class: geofft Instance: work.commit-message.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 16:42:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that's one way to do a merge.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:56:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is incredibly tempting:
http://shop.github.com/products/octodex-sticker-pack

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:57:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Want

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:57:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Problem: I might have to buy all of them

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:58:13 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Fact: Space does not exist. <asedeno>

I like the HU-BOT. “I HAVE FOUND THE THINGS”

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:58:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm pretty sure I want Obi Wanctocat, Iron Mantocat, and Marioctocat

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:58:30 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: It is incorrectly noted that Thomas Edison invented 'push-ups' in 1878. Nikolai Tesla had in fact patented the activity three years earlier, under the name 'Tesla-cize.' <asedeno>

There's a Link though, so that's my favorite.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:58:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ooh, and Portaloctocat

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:58:42 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Twelve. Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve.   Twelve. <asedeno>

(Ooh, I found Waldo!)

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 18:59:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

CTO: "Business model: steal underpants"

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:00:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Bah, can't actually bring myself to spend $20 on stickers that I will
probably never actually use

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:00:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(i-mix)

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:01:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could get two, you could get two?

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:01:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait is that _octonyancat_?

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:02:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You cannot resist.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:02:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:02:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://octodex.github.com/nyantocat/

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:03:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Y'know.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:04:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

If they had done any of:
- Only had one or two sets
- Had clear text theming each set
- Had a deal where I could get all 4 for $18 or something

I would be buying them now.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:04:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

As it is, I am dithering and probably will not buy any at all.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:05:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

My biggest dilemma is that, as awesome as they are, I don't actually
use stickers

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:11:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That dude who talks too much on Quora is now Reddit's CEO?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:49:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aww, my background doesn't stop being black once I activate? lame.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:51:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>geofft / windows

"Oh, now I get why you're using Bing"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:51:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's certainly part of it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:51:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I hear they even have Chrome and FF for Windows these days

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 19:51:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'd be using Bing even with those.

Class: geofft Instance: yogurt.prnf
Time: Thu Mar  8 20:13:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fruit on the bottom, fire in the sky

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:22:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

grahhhhhh I will punch the next person who says "Cassandra" or
"HBase" or "MongoDB" in the face

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:22:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'm well aware that is likely to be myself or a coworker)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:22:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess the next person who says that and doesn't have a good reason
why MySQL won't work.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:22:53 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

MongoDB is webscale!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:23:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

RAAAAAAAARGH

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:23:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*shards kcr*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:23:36 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

I should be at SFO in an hour or two.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:23:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

PyCon? Is _everyone_ here for that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:24:18 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

no, not everyone.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:24:41 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

Several coworkers, including eichin, didn't manage to get registrations.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:25:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yes, everyone. In order to amuse ourselves in the traffic to Logan (at
3pm on a Thursday??), kcr and I decided that literally everyone on the
bridge at that moment was going to PyCon. Including me, and the dude
on the sidewalk going the other way, and the Green Line train.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:26:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"This is the train to...San Francisco. No smoking please."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:26:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

(The Green Line train itself, not just the people on it. Which led to
a great tangent about summoning a Light Rail Elemental to enchant the
land of California with glorious light rail and cause Caltrain to die
a horrible flaming death.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:26:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yayyyyyy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:27:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

VTA has light rail!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:27:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

well there should be more of it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:27:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although the concept of reasonable cross-country transportation
reminds me of @i(Atlas Shrugged) a bit too much.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err. Why would light rail be better than Caltrain?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*train

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Especially the concept of reasonable cross-country train
transportation dying a horrible flaming death.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

Caltrain with a more frequent schedule would be fine I think.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Taking a train across the US is, IIRC, totally doable.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am imagining the B-branch going out to California. Without the stops
getting any farther apart. Gah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"and more stops"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

adehnert: It'd be much more doable if the freight railroads didn't own
all the trackage and so didn't have signal priority roughly
everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar  8 21:28:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah, there are many ways you could make Caltrain suck less. This was
a tangent on a tangent and involved light rail elementals and lots of
swearing. It is not a policy proposition :D

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 22:53:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Another reason is that, how to say, I am on the edge of becoming 30,
not sure how long I can live in this hello world, but (positively)
possible can still work for the next 30 years? and hopefully next 50
years? so in the next 30 years or at least following years I wish I
can do some help."

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 22:54:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

To be fair, English is Hard.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 22:56:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Melanie Goetz <melg>

I'm not sure what "not sure how long I can live in this hello world"
means, but it sounds really programmer-poetic.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:03:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, that amused me. But I was more confused by the concept that
once you're 30 you're too old to work on Debian

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:13:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:18:19 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

"8"?

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:18:40 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

I think that's because it's a "code name" and not "the name of the
product we are going to market" (which makes no sense to me).

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:19:10 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

They were also heavily pushing beta versions of a product called::
  SQL Server Code Name “Denali” 

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:19:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "It was a refreshing change for something to be literally on fire." --zacheiss <pquimby>

My 8 was not about you.

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:19:24 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

It was released & is now marketed as "SQL Server 2012".

Class: geofft Instance: unnecessary-quotation-marks
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:20:09 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Oh, my '"8"?' was not about you, sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:23:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The 0x6 for the dwPipeMode parameter was determined by ORing
together the hexadecimal values for PIPE_TYPE_MESSAGE (0x4) and
PIPE_READMODE_MESSAGE (0x2). The Windows Calculator program in
Scientific mode can help you with generating these values."

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:24:22 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

W. T. F.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:27:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hate everything

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:27:22 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Scientific mode? That's new.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:27:45 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

People here do use calc.exe in "programmer mode" to inspect hex
constants.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:28:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Programmer mode is convenient, and newer than scientific.
Scientific's been here since at least 3.1. I think I recall seeing it
in 3.0

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:28:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Programmer is... Vista-ish?

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:28:45 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

I ... does scientific mode offer OR or accept hex input?

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:28:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Certainly does hex.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:29:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it used to in pre-Vista calc.exe.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:29:21 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Oh, interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:29:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.kilobitspersecond.com/images/calculator.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:30:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which is Vista, actually. So only Win7 removed it -- because sins and
cosines of hex numbers are less than useful, I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:30:19 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Yeah, I remember that one.

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:31:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

3.0:
http://zet.aluzina.org/images/thumb/5/58/Zet-Win-3.jpg/360px-Zet-Win-3.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: ibtsocs
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:31:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And there are some bitwise operators at the right, including "Lsh".

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:34:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh cool, apparently when I look at MSDN and go "wait, this sounds
inherently full of security vulnerabilities" and search a bit more,
... people were debating this on Bugtraq 10 years ago and there were
in fact vulnerabilities.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:42:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hungry, my computer doesn't boot, and I don't know enough Java. -> away

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:46:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> my computer
By which I mean my VM inside my VM. My physical hardware is fine.
(And this VM booted fine on the other VM, so I'm real confused.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Mar  8 23:47:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Hardware problem."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar  9 01:50:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Drove home via El Camino. It's actually really disorienting not to
ever enter/exit a highway

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar  9 01:52:13 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: can't sleep; books will eat me <kcr>

... so you're not coming to Santa Clara and punching me
in the face?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar  9 01:52:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll get around to it this weekend

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 02:02:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/YMxUh.png

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 02:02:46 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Wat

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 02:05:52 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 02:06:29 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Something I still don't understand -- how do he-IL and ar-AR locale
users yell at each other on the Internet?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:22:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/mailarchive/kernel/2012-03/msg00000.html

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:26:11 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

That was probably the most unexpected lesson of 6.846 ("Parallel
Computing, All Our Labs Involve Using My Hardware Startup's Device"):
one of the most expensive parts of designing a new processor is
proving correctness.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:28:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"But you just hit the test button"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:28:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now that you mention it, it's true that the 6.004 test cases are very
non-exhaustive and it's possible to have subtle bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:29:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gabriel D Karpman <gdkar>

it's also possible to have non-subtle bugs......

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar  9 04:30:13 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

That would be a cool contest, though -- design the most pathological
possible Beta which passes all the unit tests.

Class: geofft Instance: asa.mq
Time: Fri Mar  9 11:58:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Dear MIT,"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Mar  9 11:58:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, Matthew Garrett is speaking at LibrePlanet?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 12:34:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, they're getting rid of stop_machine()? That _can't_ be good for
Ksplice

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 12:56:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Link?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 13:00:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/484932/e9cf0238beb84cdb/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 13:00:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which is a fascinating article in at least three other ways

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 15:03:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I seem to have switched from "why is Windows not quite Linux"
to "why is Windows not quite the HURD".

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 15:04:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I do not even want to try to understand what it is like inside your
head.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 15:05:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My head is a strange and wonderful place

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 15:16:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 15:17:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NT was more microkernel-y once; then NT4 happened.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:10:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

why are you calling it ioctl it is not a UNIX ioctl

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:14:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, my DOS 6 memories of knowledge are actually somewhat
irrelevant! yay.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:20:36 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Nice article,  It took me a while to see how handling nested NMIs
and removing stop_machine() are related changes

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:24:35 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's because the trick for self-modifying code without stop_machine()
involves inserting a breakpoint instruction, and within a NMI handler
that breakpoint exn would end with iret and thus open the door to a
nested NMI

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:27:02 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Anyway stop_machine is used for more than just modifying single
instructions (even in-tree) so I don't know if it will go away any
time soon

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:46:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ahahaha a Windows API function that ends with "2" and "3" to take
more parameters (instead of "Ex")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 16:46:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Seriously, it's like it periodically decides to be Linux and then
goes back to being Windows

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 17:18:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

KeKeKeKeKeKeKeKeWaitForSingleObject(IN LPZERG *lpZerg, IN BOOLEAN rush);

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 17:21:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, its definitely KeKeKeKeWaitForMultipleObjects.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 17:21:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 17:38:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://infotrope.net/2011/07/21/a-note-to-google-recruiters/

Yeah, that sounds like Google

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 18:31:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It occurs to me that since I'm writing stuff in Java, I could write
stuff in Scala instead...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 18:31:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Lulz

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:03:58 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

> And when your data centers are as huge as Google's, and CPU time is
> quite literally more valuable than engineer time, hiring people who
> can optimise an algorithm to the Nth degree makes sense

Uh, Google thinks of CPU time as more valuable than engineer time?
Really?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:04:52 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Charitably, I think that means it operates at such a scale that it's
worth a lot of engineer time to save a little CPU time per operation.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:04:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==ghudson

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:05:51 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Whereas, making Barnowl a little faster at processing zephyrs is not
economical.  (Or it wouldn't be if Barnowl developers were paid.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:06:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Which they have been!"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:06:21 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I think the reason companies ask "algorithms pop quizzes" is that
they've found it's an adequate proxy for intelligence, education,
ability.  Not because they need lots of algorithms skill.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:06:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, the general problem is that at Google's scale and fame, they
can afford to screw up hiring massively and still get good people

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:07:01 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

The vast majority of code in any project (even an ostensibly
performance-critical project) is not performance-critical

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:13:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://isitrestful.com/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:14:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<ROS: I mean, what exactly do you do? (The NPCs are Dead, X-Games, ~5/18. Quoting R&GaD.)> <xavid>

I don't think anyone takes that quip seriously, but it's used as a
flippant answer for why, say, we use C++.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:15:20 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

What, CPU time more valuable than engineer time?  That's something
Google actually tells people?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:15:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I...don't actually understand where its answer comes from

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:16:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The more manly you are the more remote from you is what woman really is, since the feminine in yourself is alien and contemptuous. (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

Define "Google"?  It's a quip I've heard people say, in both
directions, in and out of Google.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:17:14 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Is this commonly held to be a general guiding principle among Google
employees?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:17:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think srand. :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:18:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh, I don't completely understand every line of code in all our
codebases, and it makes me sad.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:18:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unfortunately this is a _slightly_ unreasonable goal

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:18:45 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

I don't think so. 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:19:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Clearly there are particular components of particular projects where
CPU time is more valuable... But I would be dismayed to work at a
company where this is the general attitude

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:20:32 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It sounds like a great way to attract wankers who think it's H4RDC0R3
to micro-optimize every program into an unreadable mess

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:21:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... MokaFive Player just ... caused VMware Player to ... crash
Internet Explorer? How is this even possible

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:21:52 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It also just makes no economic sense.  When you buy computers at the
scale Google does, CPU time is very very cheap.  Especially when
you're already writing everything as a distributed system as a matter
of course.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:21:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Uh, IE 9 has some GPU-accelerated fancy stuff that crashes vmplayer.
AFAICT, both companies are playing chicken on fixing it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:22:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is this IE inside vmplayer, or next to it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:22:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, inside. No comment on next to

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:26:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Melanie Goetz <melg>

re: ghudson, the way she put it doesn't actually make sense, but the
idea that it's worth a lot of engineering time to make Google Search
10% faster makes sense

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:30:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did Chrome get reinstated in the search results yet?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:30:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They seem to not be giving the actual Chrome home page in the results
when you search for "Chrome", but they do let Chrome place an ad
which links to the home page. Which confuses me so much

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:33:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is the Ubuntu maintainer of chromium-browser an individual
@ubuntu.com instead of ubuntu-devel-discuss?

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:34:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's allowed. The policy just requires that the maintainer be an
Ubuntu member

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:34:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's also nonbinding

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:35:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Is that new?

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:37:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, it's always been the policy. The requirement was that the e-mail
address be @ubuntu.com, not that it specifically be
ubuntu-devel-discuss. Most of the Ubuntu metapackages (e.g.
ubuntu-desktop) have had mdz as their "maintainer" for ~forever, even
though obviously plenty of people modify them (and also mdz is no
longer even working on Ubuntu, really)

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:37:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

At least for chromium, though, the maintenance is mostly done by the
nominal maintainer:

udd=# select count(changed_by), changed_by from ubuntu_upload_history
where source = 'chromium-browser' group by changed_by;
 count |            changed_by             
-------+-----------------------------------
    60 | Micah Gersten <micahg@ubuntu.com>
    80 | Fabien Tassin <fta@ubuntu.com>
     1 | Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:37:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“It is not!” Sid sulks. “It’s Zen.” (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

It's a quip, it's not a guiding principle.  It's mainly used to argue
with people who think everything should be written in python/php/perl
because programmer time is worth more than cpu time.

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:39:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The upstream packaging for Chrome sets its alternatives priority to
... 120!??

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:39:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aren't these maximum 100?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:39:55 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Or you could just not argue with people who think one language is best for
everything, and whose mode of argument is overgeneralized quips

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:40:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<PLAYER: We keep to our usual stuff, more or less, only inside out. (The NPCs are Dead, X-Games, ~5/18. Quoting R&GaD.)> <xavid>

But there's also the idea that if you shave a few ms off a Google
search result, given the number of computers running your code and the
number of QPS Google gets, that's actually a lot.  This does not mean
"prematurely optimize ALL the things", but it does mean that some
optimizations are more valuable than you might think.  Data is good.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:41:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<But if you remain with yourself, as a man who is himself... then you will remember your humanity. (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

But the cost of your program's CPU time is generally not the hardware
cost of the CPU, but the effects of latency.

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:41:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No - see e.g. mesa and nvidia-current's priorities for
x86_64-linux-gnu_gl_conf

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:41:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

See also, alternatives are kind of a bunch of bullshit anyway

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:43:01 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Right, that goes back to "particular components of particular
projects".  Hopefully most of your code is not in the latency critical
path.

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:43:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

See the long long comment in the postinst.

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:43:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:43:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

WTF galeon!

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:44:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

  beta )
    # Almost good enough to be the default. (Firefox stable should arguably be
    # higher than this, but since that's below the "galeon threshold", we're not
    # setting our priority below it. Anyone want to poke Firefox to raise their
    # priority?)
    PRIORITY=150

Class: geofft Instance: google.d
Time: Fri Mar  9 19:44:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've poked Firefox, I think. The packager got confused

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:12:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

where is my /proc *whine*

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:12:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(also on OS X)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:13:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The build box on crazy-project is a Mac and everyone I've had to
pair-program with so far is on one. And EVERYTHING IS WRONG on them.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:13:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter11/procfs/

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:14:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Yes, it's significantly less useful than Linux /proc. What did you
expect?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:40:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like spending a day adding a README to every directory.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 20:40:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Partly because it would force me to understand everything, partly
because everything would then have READMEs

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:46:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I lost a _piece of bread_?

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:46:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do I even do that??

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:46:44 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: If the apocalypse comes, beep me. - Buffy <wings>

*golf clap*

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:46:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did I eat it already? I don't think so...

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:47:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I doubt I threw it away...

Class: geofft Instance: losing-things
Time: Fri Mar  9 22:50:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am so confused now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:17:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoooooooooa we pass through Bluetooth? Shiny

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:18:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's not really deliberate, it just kind of happens accidentally

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:18:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

By virtue of every Bluetooth set everywhere being a USB device

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:20:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I guess. I do know that qemu has actual bluetooth device
emulation, so I wouldn't be surprised if VMware did and it were
deliberate.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:21:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... do we pass through all USB devices? how does it work with
multiple VMs?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:21:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(also, I can't do anything useful with my phone including sending
files. I'm not sure it's worth caring about)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:26:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Poorly

Class: geofft Instance: tags
Time: Fri Mar  9 23:31:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, shouldn't you be able to get a much more reliable tags program
out of debug symbols?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Mar 10 01:19:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, why can I not log in to yahoo mail??

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Mar 10 03:32:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

chown 777 .
chmod 777 .

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sat Mar 10 05:28:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Computer-assisted proof of the existence of God. I, uh, two great
tastes that go together?

http://mally.stanford.edu/Papers/ontological-computational.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 04:06:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's midnight? No wonder I almost fell asleep sitting up

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 04:06:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: haight
Time: Sun Mar 11 13:57:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

just watched some hippies getting in an argument about whether one of
them could smoke in front of a store

Class: geofft Instance: haight
Time: Sun Mar 11 13:59:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess it might have been hipsters vs. a hippie? Hard to tell

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:03:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/2YyKu.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:10:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/SFBayHousing/comments/qrbo2/offershare_hippie_nerd_friendly_roomshare/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:10:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:12:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:12:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I...definitely read "offershare" as "offshore" at first

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:22:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if I want to not carry my debit card with me... I guess
having it in my wallet reduces the attack surface compared to a
purse, and I can't think of a particularly _better_ place than my
wallet other than "my bedroom".

More relevantly, I should really set up monitoring of my debit and
credit card.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:23:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

That looks like a dysfunctional household, but I like the
roommate requirement "Should drink wine in the $7-15 range
and whiskey in the $30-50 range."

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:24:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Your bank probably has the ability to send e-mail for every transaction

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:24:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It doesn't, I've looked. (It's MITFCU) My dad has that set up

Class: geofft Instance: colosimo
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:42:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do actually want to figure out how to do CS classes where you can
post your code publicly. I don't have a good answer for it

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:44:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

if( result == 'HTTPS:' || result == "https:" || (("" == "TRUE") && result == "http:") ) {
    ...
} else {
    alert('We are sorry, this page is not secure.');
    return false;
}

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:51:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wrap a rubber band twice around your finger without any twists. <ageng>

Please tell me "" == "TRUE" doesn't evaluate to true in javascript.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

(ok, whew, it doesn't)

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:51:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think it evaluates to "wat".

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:52:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: measuring inexactness of the mitochondrial respiratory chain complex since the 1960s <ageng>

A lot of things do.

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:53:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Geoffrey:

I drove a Honda Civic (not hybrid) rental car this week when I went
to New Orleans for a conference. Great car and excellent mileage.
Fancy displays on the dashboard. I liked it.

On the way back I stopped at the Baton Rouge Indian store. When I
left around 6:30 it was just beginning to get dark. I noticed the
lights were on but there was enough twilight plus street lights and
light from other cars. When I got past the big bridge, it got dark
and there were no more street lights and I distinctly felt the light
was not enough. After I passed the Lobdell exit there was no good
place to get off the road and check. I tried to gently wiggle some
levers to see if the light needed to be manually turned on but
nothing happened and I was a bit afraid to do any major
experimentation while driving. There was some light, vaguely
illuminating the signs and the backs of vehicles ahead but I was not
comfortable. Finally I decided that this must be the low beam for
this car. This must be all it has. I latched on to a truck ahead of
me. Its shiny aluminum paint in the back reflected my light to assure
me the lights were on and I decided to stay right behind it all the
way.

A little later that truck pulled away and I was on my own. The beams
from passing cars on the left made me uncomfortable again as to why
my light was not bright. It was enough, I thought. II could see the
road markings and the signs were readable as I passed by. But I was
uneasy and I began to gently try the light switch lever again.

Then suddenly my fingers turned something the right way and WOW! the
whole bridge lit up in the powerful (low beam) light of that car. I
could see every dent and crack on the road and spot signs far away.
All through the rest of the drive home I wondered why I had stupidly
settled for that wimpy parking light, thinking that was all that was
there! Of course there was no convenient exit for me to stop and
check, but I also thought how easily I deluded myself into thinking
that this was possibly all the light there was, and then trying
foolishly to tag along to some passing truck for safety.

I was reminded of this incident again today in church where the
sermon was on the theme “You are the light of the world.” I thought
God has given us bright lights within us  but we sometimes settle for
the parking lights, tag along behind trucks, and settle essentially
for mediocrity far below the levels of excellence God had equipped up
for.

Be a light to the world. Flip your switch on!

Daddy.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:54:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

d8 (V8 command line thing--why it's called d8 I don't know) says
false, thank goodness.

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:55:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

That email is both sweet and hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:55:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:55:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I did not anticipate that ending.

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Meet the smokeless bung. <ageng>

Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:59:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Augh I am in the recursive yak trap.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 20:59:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I was... going to buy groceries. Now I am ... considering
hacking on scripts infrastructure.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:00:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Scripts!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:00:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

...but before/while hacking on scripts infrastructure you'd like a
sandwich for dinner, and you're out of sandwich supplies?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:01:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

shhh, I should finish hacking on this before I start washing dishes.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:01:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I could get a haircut.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:04:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What's with that HTTP bit?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:07:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Your search for normal subpeople returned two results. <ageng>

...a haircut? I don't understand your yak dependency graph.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu.website.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:47:50 2012 Host: ET-ONE-FIFTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU
From: 2 5 3083 43189 <cesium>

[stark] Maybe the server-side code is supposed to be interpolating
something there?

Class: geofft Instance: travel
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:54:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The cheapest round-trip tickets to BOS are ... AirTran? With a stop
in Milwaukee?

Class: geofft Instance: travel
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:55:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

THose are not the tickets you want.

Class: geofft Instance: travel
Time: Sun Mar 11 21:56:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For $30 more I can get nonstop JetBlue. For $35 more I can get
nonstop Virgin.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:04:38 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

SFO-BOS has some weird properties. I've found that SFO-BOS-PHL can be,
all-included, cheaper than SFO-BOS (because the married-segment
availability opens up very cheap fare buckets on SFO-BOS).

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:07:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

The cheap fares are SFO-BOS are very cheap. Even the
expensive fares seldom break $1k because it is so
competitive.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:08:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

mherdeg: Doesn't really appear to help (I went to Matrix, asked for
an SFO-PHL flight with "X:BOS" in advanced routing codes)

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:08:33 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

What about the inverse?  Can you do SFO-PHL-BOS cheap?
(trying to get SFO-PHL is expensive nonstop)

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:08:46 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Ah. Yeah, not being someone who buys travel for work purposes I never
really see round-trip fares anywhere north of $600. But I don't need
to visit limited-competition markets like OKC, YYC, RDU..

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:08:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As in, these are like $566 one way.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:09:05 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Just curious, what's your travel date / plan?

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:09:32 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Depart SFO only? OAK/SJC? Arrive BOS only? PVD/MHT? (MHT is rarely
cheper.)

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:09:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

mherdeg: I've noticed that UA doesn't usually publish fares SFO-BOS
(or LAX-BOS) that allow connections, so if you fly e.g. SFO-ORD-BOS
you're actually paying two fares.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:09:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

BOS-Toronto are often my most expensive tickets.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:10:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

tibbetts: "But it's RIGHT THERE!"

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:10:40 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

oremanj: I remember when that started! It was spring 2011. United
stopped allowing connections on hub-to-hub flights and in some cases
disallowed connections on hub-to-nonhub flights.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:11:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The searches I'm doing are {SFO, SJC, OAK} -> BOS. Date is April 26 ±
one day (evening, if the 25th) to April 30 ± one day

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:11:10 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

(They just recently eased off of SEA-LAX so that there are now
published fares with legal routings through SFO; for a long time you
either triggered a fare break or were forced to fly on a regional
jet.)

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:12:13 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Oh, man, $274 on AirTran vs. $309 on UA, you have good options
everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:12:49 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

$300 round-trips BOS-SFO are fine. During the height of the recession
$150 was great and $200 was frequent; that turned into $219 eventually
and has gradually walked up.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:13:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, $300 sounds like what I expect.

Class: geofft Instance: travel.d
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:13:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(To be clear, I'm not complaining about not being able to find a good
price that weekend)

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:22:42 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: The Zekiness <zhangc>

==everyone

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:24:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Haha, I can totally picture your dad sending that email.

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:25:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

that was very much like the sort of email my dad sends

Class: geofft Instance: dad.q
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:28:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, my dad will not infrequently do this sort of thing, but not
with as abrupt of a twist ending. (Especially since heknows I've been
looking at Civics)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:30:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We are actually using the plush Weighted Companion Cube as a weight
to hold something down. This makes me so happy

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:30:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not actually particularly weighty.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:31:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

clearly you should open it up, insert something heavy, and sew it back
up

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:31:53 2012 Host: ET-ONE-FIFTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU
From: 16141 82493 <cesium>

And then incinerate it.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:32:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

noooooooooooooooooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:32:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

nooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:33:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

bonus points if the heavy thing you put inside it causes it to
occasionally speak....

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:33:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

nah just light a match near it and then scuff it up a little

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:33:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

(disregard its advice)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Mar 11 22:37:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

haha, Liz/Adam++

Class: geofft Instance: christianitytoday.world-vision.q
Time: Mon Mar 12 01:03:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In the context of whether government or religion/private charity is
better equipped to solve poverty:

"The government's efforts to stop the sex trade have been ineffective
because it cannot change core community values. But that's exactly
what Christians do. Solving the causes of poverty requires both
large-scale, top-down action and the compassion and social activism
of the church."

[note that by "the sex trade" he means "in third world
countries"/sex trafficking more than prostitution in developed
countries]

Class: geofft Instance: christianitytoday.world-vision.q
Time: Mon Mar 12 01:03:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure how much I believe it, but it's a very intriguing
assertion.

Class: geofft Instance: christianitytoday.world-vision.q
Time: Mon Mar 12 01:06:06 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Of course, the most ineresting social change has come from government
and religion working hand in hand.

Class: geofft Instance: christianitytoday.world-vision.q
Time: Mon Mar 12 01:06:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:14:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyone want to get lunch at Stata? I can get to the other
end of the wormhole around 12:30 Eastern

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:15:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(no particular reason to be at Stanford, I'm simply awake early
enough and I've wanted to ry the wormhole)

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:21:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

hmm, I could potentially do this.

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:22:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

(though the Stata cafe is typically packed around 12:30, we'll see)

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:23:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, maybe the right answer is for me to get breakfast here and try
it closer to noon or 1 Pacific

Class: geofft Instance: wormhole
Time: Mon Mar 12 11:33:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... also, in rush hour traffic there's no way I can get to Stanford
in an hour
(also I'm hungry now)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:06:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

/r/netsec, aka "geofft teaches the Internet things they should have
learned in 6.857"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:06:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Current topic, "whoa partially homomorphic encryption exists?".)

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:07:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Relatedly, writing the RSA equation in Markdown is unnecessarily hard

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, what... exactly happened with Stanford's foo-class.org? Did it
spin off into _two_ startups?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:26 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yep

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm trying to figure out if
https://www.coursera.org/crypto/auth/welcome
is legit or not. I think it's legit

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:33 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

er

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:36 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

there are two classes now

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:43 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

maybe that's not what you were asking.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:10:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, there's Coursera and Udacity.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:11:32 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah, but now Stanford is also doing the ML course and an HCI course

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:12:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, ml-class.org appears to be using the same codebase as Coursera
but doesn't redirect me, unlike crypto-class.org

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:15:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/DropbearsPlugin

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:18:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Speaking of geofft, 6.857, and sorta homomorphic encryption, did we
ever figure out how to do that thing with secret-sharing?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:19:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. I don't think so?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:37:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sir Webinar!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Mar 12 12:49:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now I want to watch @i(Pirates of Silicon Valley) with the soundtrack
of @i(Pirates of the Carribean)

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 13:08:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... how is this not full of cross-site herpaderp vulnerabilities

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 13:08:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Don't you have a perfectly good templating engine? Why aren't you using it?

Class: geofft Instance: parking-tickets
Time: Mon Mar 12 13:36:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of these days I should learn to read street signs

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 14:09:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why do you think it *isn't* full of XSS or CSRF vulnerabilities?

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 14:10:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Everything else is."

Class: geofft Instance: n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 14:10:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: parking-tickets
Time: Mon Mar 12 14:15:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um. Your zephyrs are not increasing my confidence in yoru driving.

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:15:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear industry analysts: Did you ever use UNIX in the early '90s? If
not, stop being impressed by things UNIX did in the early '90s</keithw>

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:16:12 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Dear virtualization people: Did you use OS390 in the early
70s? If not, stop being impressed by things OS390 did in
the early 70s.

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:16:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I realize that our entire product is basically about doing things
UNIX does, just on Windows, but still

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:16:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah, ==

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:16:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am happy to make our product work and get it in the hands of more
people! I just fail to be dumbfounded by it.

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:17:51 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Actually, OS390 is from the 90s. I guess I mean OS360 or
maybe soemthign else, but you get the idea.

Class: geofft Instance: gssapi
Time: Mon Mar 12 15:22:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, this is a funky way to say "your tickets expired":

> msmtp: GNU SASL: GSSAPI error in client while negotiating security
> context in gss_init_sec_context() in SASL library.  This is most
> likely due insufficient credentials or malicious interactions.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:06:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

++

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:06:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

what'd he send?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:08:32 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

"We can't help you and your kid should stop being such a screw-up,"
but it was really really nice.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:09:30 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Actually, it was more "talk to the course staff.")

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:10:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm actually pretty serious that I would have been a better undergrad
if I'd TA'd first.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:13:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or at least been considerate enough to leave less of a trail of
annoyed course staffs in my wake.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:15:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I still have no idea what the phrase "business logic" is supposed to
mean

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:16:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, apparently ttants, JavaBeans, Enterprise JavaBeans? wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:16:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Anything that doesn't make logical sense, makes "business logical
sense".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:16:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So it seems

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:34:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"In computing software, POJO is an acronym for Plain Old Java Object.
The name is used to emphasize that a given object is an ordinary Java
Object, not a special object. The term was coined by Martin Fowler,
Rebecca Parsons and Josh MacKenzie in September 2000:

"'We wondered why people were so against using regular objects in
their systems and concluded that it was because simple objects lacked
a fancy name. So we gave them one, and it's caught on very nicely.'"

I hate everything

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:34:24 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: soylent green is made from beatles! <eichin>

(starking) Mm, I have mail from coursera that says the HCI class is "on hold"...
(coursera is stanford, and seems to be analagous to mitx; udacity is Thrun's spinoff,
and coursera is doing the Probabilistic Graphical Models class,
starting the 19th...)

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Mon Mar 12 16:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Did you mean 360 (or 370)? I think OS/390 was introduced in the 90's. But
yeah, the point remains.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:03:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I find the term "product council" amusing. Mostly because I imagine
various company higher-ups dressing up in wizard robes and debating
whether to send broder to Mordor

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:03:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:04:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

AND MY APPS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:04:30 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:23:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.nytimes-se.com/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:24:19 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Oh, that's funnier now that some of it has happened.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:31:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

What does the SE stand for?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:31:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Presumably something on the order of either "special edition" or
"stupid edition"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:32:10 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

They also handed out over a million paper copies of them,
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/11/13/industry-us-media-newyorktimes-idUSTRE4AC0GV20081113

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:32:16 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I think it was "special edition".

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:57:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently official documents from the local government have "City of
Redwood City" at the top.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Mar 12 17:58:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if we have a Department of Redundancy Department.

Class: geofft Instance: work.the-people-who-run-this-building.mq
Time: Mon Mar 12 18:00:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

To view this email as a web page, go <a href="%25%25view_email_url%25%25">here.</a>

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Mar 12 18:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rachel G Chasin <rchasin>

But that has a purpose!  It would ensure that the Redundancy
Department was meeting the redundancy needs of the people and approve
or deny any requests to create additional departments for redundancy.

Class: geofft Instance: academics
Time: Mon Mar 12 18:18:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are Martin Abadi and Daniel Abadi related?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:32:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why am I hungry? I had breakfast and lunch...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:32:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

eat a coworker?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:33:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hm. I'm not really sure who I'd eat.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:33:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

sample them first to see which one's tastiest!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:33:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now, if my boss's puppy/the company mascot were in the office...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:40:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gah! My headphones have broken _already_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:41:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I decided maybe just once it was worth paying more than $5 for
headphones (these were like $50). Wrong answer

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:41:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

http://www.amazon.com/Koss-JKO-PORTAPRO-BBC-PortaPro-Headphones/dp/B000TYTP3U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1331599276&sr=8-6
Huh, I could have sworn these used to be like $15...

Class: geofft Instance: virtualbox
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:47:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Waitwaitwait vbox uses "VDI" to mean "Virtual Disk Image" not
"Virtual Desktop Infrastructure"? wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 20:58:36 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> what the phrase "business logic" is supposed to mean

I think it comes from the world of in-house or highly customized
software.  You have all the machinery that makes the software go
(like a web server and other "middleware"), and then you have the code
that actually describes the things specific to Company X's accounting
system, or widget QA workflow, or whatever.  The latter is the
"business logic".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:06:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... ... really I have to care about _what SCSI channel my drive is
on_ before I can use it? What is this, 1992?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:10:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

My experience with headphones has been that one should either pay a
little or a lot, hence my current pair of Shure canalphones with a
replaceable cable.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:10:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oooooh replaceable cable

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:10:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I know, right?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:10:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think the problem here is that I get the cable caught on my chair arms

Class: geofft Instance: status.zzounds.q
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:14:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Tired of singing the same song over and over whenever someone wants
to hear it? We have everything you need to record music they can
listen to whenever they want."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:20:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, if I order my keyboard from zzounds I might put one or two of
these on the order, the price looks too reasonable not to get:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHHPM1000

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:21:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hm, maybe I'll grab some of those for comparison to HD202 (which is my
typical 'disposable' cost headphones)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:20:27 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

lol that's cute

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:20:50 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

$10 "pro" headphones

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:24:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I mean... if I ever decide to care about music production,
these are not the headphones I want. But they're adequate for bad pop
from Pandora.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:28:44 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

IDK, I've always felt like $40-$50 is an optimal price point for
headphones.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:30:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I break mine too often

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:30:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That's why replaceable cables exist.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:31:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gabriel D Karpman <gdkar>

that.... only helps when you break the /cables/.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:31:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...when do you break any other part?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gabriel D Karpman <gdkar>

surprisingly often.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:31:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

geofft, have you...considered trying more actively to not destroy your
hardware?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:31:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What on earth are you *doing* to your headphones?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:32:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gabriel D Karpman <gdkar>

sort of; the ear cups of my current headphones are basically just
desintegrating, and I have no idea what even /does/ that, other than
possibly overly aggressive ears........

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:32:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gabriel D Karpman <gdkar>

s/des/dis

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:33:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, I guess I pull too hard on the cable and break something
inside the headphones themselves, which detachable cables probably
help.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:37:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

watching mke2fs run while listening to the Halo theme. mke2fs is not
nearly epic enough to justify it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 12 21:41:28 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Get studio monitors with thick cables and you usually don't have to
worry.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Mar 12 22:03:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

gthomas@salmon-of-wisdom:~$ sudo mount /[TAB]
/          /dev/sda1  /proc

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:30:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

woo, baremetal finally built. This involved going to get dinner.

I wish someone would come up with a clever way to do incremental
builds of Debian packages. Pretty sure I would use this for everything

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:32:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Therefore I conclude that Carthage must be destroyed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:32:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

i,i functional reactive packaging

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:32:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is this the NixOS thing?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:33:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

rm debian/stamp-makefile-build && dpkg-buildpackage -nc?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:33:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"And pray"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:34:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, it seems quite easy to redo the build inside your schroot.
And also track which files were used/modified for the
non-Makefile-run parts of the build

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:36:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:37:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Someone get this kid a book on Roman history

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Mar 12 23:41:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can you elaborate more...?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:17:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

execve() anything you want!
Linerva, the ESPublic dialup.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:18:46 2012 Host: ET-ONE-FIFTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU
From: 2 11 83 137 5323 <cesium>

You can exec anything you want at SIPB's restaurant

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:20:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:20:19 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Volcano-ologists are experts in the study of volcanoes. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:20:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

And he stopped me right there and said, "kid, I want you to go sit
down on that bench that says cgroup W. ... NOW, kid!"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:20:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:42:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> J2SE 1.4.2 | J2SE 5.0 | Java SE 6

augh why can't you pick a consistent name

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Tue Mar 13 00:42:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Next it's going to be Oracle Unbreakable Bytecode 7

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 01:17:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Multics doesn't have stat(1)?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 01:17:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not even in the GNU locker?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Tue Mar 13 01:18:23 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"stat" is in "ktools" for linux and sun4

Class: geofft Instance: *facepalm*
Time: Tue Mar 13 01:33:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/o8T9V.png

Class: geofft Instance: ipad-retina-simulator
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:19:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... I'm going to need a bigger monitor

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:51:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, why is Evan's crackful window manager on crack

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:52:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You must have fed it crack

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:52:36 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

It's the new hotness after tiling window managers.  Crackwhore window
managers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:54:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I have multiple terminals, trying to drag one moves the other

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:54:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, yeah, I've totally seen that before. Not at all clear how it could
be my fault

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:56:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It also happens if one of the windows isn't a terminal (e.g., I
started xkbvleds, closed a terminal, started a new one, and trying to
move the terminal moves xkbvleds). Also there is display corruption
on m5player now.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:56:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"This wouldn't happen if you were using xmonad, therefore it's your
fault"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:56:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That probably means you ran yourself out of memory

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:58:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*looks* I did. baremetal-wm is using 300 MB of it. Ergo, your fault.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:59:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...resident?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 02:59:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, no.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:00:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm ... actually a little confused where the 1 G of memory that's not
going to the guest went.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:00:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Let me know if you can figure it out

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:21:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm still not convinced that long-running tickets are the right
answer, as compared to keeping a password/keytab around, since yoyu
can change your password and invalidate your keytab, but you can't
ever invalidate tickets

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:24:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Except for the part where if you have a password/keytab, right before
it is changed it can be used to get long-lived tickets, so moot point.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:25:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

IIRC, you can set a policy on your own account to reduce how long
you're permitted to get tickets for.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:26:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Admittedly you could go revert that)

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:26:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*the attacker

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:27:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I believe we've discussed ticket-invalidation strategies in the past,
it's a matter of picking one and implementing it, and then the
long-lived tickets are clearly the solution.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:28:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess you can't actually set it on yourself. You could try to
convince accounts to set it.
kadmin:  modprinc -maxrenewlife "1 day" geofft
modify_principal: Operation requires ``modify'' privilege while modifying "geofft@ATHENA.MIT.EDU".

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:28:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, sure, but that requires modifying the KDC, which appears to be
scheduled for approximately when I get tenure

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:29:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Like I said, we have to build the DES cracker!

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:29:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That will just get MIT to stop using single signon

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:30:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

See also, nic.mit.edu. MIT's not capable of fixing infrastructure
anymore, it's only capable of watching it decay.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:30:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You're probably right :/

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:31:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Alternative plan: SIPB starts running a competent KDC and we all start
using that, *AND* the DES cracker. 

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:31:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boylston. No smoking, please. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

how screwed will we be, then, geofft, if we lose moira?

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:31:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Moira? You mean Outlook distribution lists?

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:32:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

<_< >_> what about hostnames and user accounts and nfs groups and afs
groups?

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:32:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

NFS and AFS sound legacy. Hostnames aren't really useful behind a NAT

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:33:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Woodland. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

GAFYD

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:33:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(If you don't have Kerberos, it's basically unsafe to run your crappy
authentication protocol on the public Internet. I get the feeling
this is even true of AD)

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:33:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...are you avoiding the issue that AD _is_ kerberos?

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:33:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

For some definition of "is"

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:33:52 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, no, that's brilliant. We all start authenticating agaisnt
EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:34:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's Kerberos that comes with a bunch of enterprise vulnerabilities.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 03:36:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chestnut Hill Avenue. The destination of this train is: Boston College. <stum>

we could just do what wellesley does and change infrastructure every
year. there are so many to choose from! Groupwise, FirstClass, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 12:06:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> MIT's not capable of fixing infrastructure anymore
Er, aren't both of those examples just NIST?

Class: geofft Instance: kerberos
Time: Tue Mar 13 12:07:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Also, I have heard vaguely credible rumors that work is ongoing on a
more modern KDC to be deployed side-by-side with the legacy KDCs until
certain people die^W^W^Wthe legacy service is no longer needed.

Class: geofft Instance: boost.wq
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:13:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"When reading source code, it is valuable to be able to draw
conclusions about program behavior based on the types being used."

Wait really tell me more about this fascinating concept

Class: geofft Instance: boost.wq
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:14:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I think that's funnier if you assume it began with "Some have argued,
"

Class: geofft Instance: boost.wq
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:14:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:56:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Micro-USB cables at Office Despot and Radio Shark are TWENTY DOLLARS!???

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:56:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

These things cost like 30 cents to manufacture! And half of that is
licensing!

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:57:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Artificial intelligence.  Real sarcasm. <eichin>

so go manufacture one

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:57:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'll do that as soon as I compete with TI's calculator market and win

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:57:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

I paid $20 to rat shack for a piece of molded metal and plastic just
the other day!
I didn't want to, but also didn't want to wait for amazon to deliver

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:59:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

(in my case, it was an international power plug adapter.  Or rather a
set of them, because they're sold in sets, even though I'm not
planning a Matt-Harding-esque adventure so I only need one type)

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:59:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Hmm, what other everyday items are much cheaper to make than we are
accustomed to paying for them?

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 21:59:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bottled water

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:00:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"intellectual property"

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:00:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

Basically any drinks, really.

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:00:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Except booze that needs to be aged.

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:00:38 2012 Host: 18.208.1.237
From: 2 13 223 229681 <cesium>

"pennies"

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:00:53 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

$50.00 at Best Buy
$ 5.00 in Chinatown
$ 0.50 on Monoprice
$ 0.05 in Shenzhen

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:01:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Pennies cost more to make than they're worth :)

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:01:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

Well, sure, there are exceptions.  
But most mass-market stuff, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:02:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, there was something else I wanted from monoprice. I forget what

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:02:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

hdmi cable, ethernet cable, dvi, displayport, vgi?

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:02:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

One MEEEELION dvi cables.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:11:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Steam Cafe
https://cafe.steampowered.com/

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:13:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm tempted to get $20 worth of micro-USB cables off Monoprice out of
spite.

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:13:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think this would be... 28 cables.

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:15:28 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We do what we must, because we can <eichin>

wasn't it the particular case of short (6"?)
micro-usb cables that almost got tibbetts to import a thousand or so
from alibaba, and dump them in an amazon storefront, because noone was
actually selling them retail?

Class: geofft Instance: usb
Time: Tue Mar 13 22:15:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Furby vs. Tribble -- Deathmatch <eichin>

(they're a lot easier to find now of course)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Mar 13 23:41:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So it's possible to have non-root owners of TUN/TAP interfaces, but
that's insufficient for doing packet capture on those interfaces?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:00:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, his real name is John Bongiovi!???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:49:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:53:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

augh this code is full of the TODOs and the XXXs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:53:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

"at least they had the courtesy to write those down"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:54:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's true.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:55:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

http://nelhage.com/files/81f29fc7

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:57:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 00:57:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

At least no "TODO: XXX".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:24:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-c geofft, it will shock you to know that Windows is still weird.

Class: geofft Instance: lyrics
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:33:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

a family of treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:37:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:38:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do
look more like CreateFile()?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:39:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 0x8badf00d; 0xdefec8ed 0xdeadbeef. <ageng>

YES.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:39:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

what

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:39:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/has-anyone-really-been-far-even-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:42:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Look, at least it's not spelled CreatFile()

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:43:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

FILE_FLAG_POSIX_SEMANTICS 0x0100000

Access will occur according to POSIX rules. This includes allowing
multiple files with names, differing only in case, for file systems
that support that naming. 

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:44:15 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

POSIX rules!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:44:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, there's FILE_FLAG_OPEN_REPARSE_POINT, which can be best be
intepreted in UNIXland as O_IGNORE_MOUNTPOINTS

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:45:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like O_PONIES, except with demented vampire ponies from Mordor.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 01:45:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Vaguely useful, I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:54:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Windows... has a built-in ACID key-value store?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:55:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess UNIX has that if you consider something like Berkeley DB "built-in"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:55:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I seem to be suffering from the MSDN equivalent of http://xkcd.com/609/

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:58:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

... are you still at work, geoff?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:58:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:58:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I did get here at 4pm.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:58:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:59:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

that's absurd

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 02:59:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've determined from previous experience that I can be generally
dayshifted, but once every week or two I sleep in until like 1.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:00:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This usually plays out well if I can use Saturday or Sunday for that,
but I haven't been too successful at having my weekends free recently

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:00:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

nod

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:00:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

makes sense

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:01:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

I had that problem this weekend and fixed it by going to bed fairly early last
night

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:08:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The default security policy restricts anonymous local access to
having no rights. Administrators can then add or subtract rights as
they see fit."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 14 03:08:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... how do you subtract rights from no rights

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 13:40:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.osnews.com/images/comics/wtfm.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:08:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So how about that krbtgt/sipb?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:08:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

what is this I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:08:37 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is the most handsome sphere. <asedeno>

I'll take a krbtgt/lostwoods.org while we're at it.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:08:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ kvno krbtgt/SIPB.MIT.EDU
krbtgt/SIPB.MIT.EDU@ATHENA.MIT.EDU: kvno = 1

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:08:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We lost the keytab, can we get it replaced?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:09:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm fairly certain I can't issue that

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:09:05 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Schrodinger's cat paradox outlines a situation in which a cat in a box must be considered, for all intents and purposes, simultaneously alive and dead. Schrodinger created this paradox as a justification for killing cats. <asedeno>

(well, with the realm capitalized, as one would expect.)

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:09:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You'll never know unless you try

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:09:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

jdreed: Didn't you say you would issue that if we presented a photo id
for krbtgt/sipb and geofft said "well, pharos..."

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:12:21 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm fairly certain I didn't say that, and asking for a keytab like
that while intending to do something clever with Pharos automatically
disqualifies you from ever getting keytabs again

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:13:01 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And then you have to walk around campus carrying the Typewriter of
Shame

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:14:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, koji changed its skin

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:14:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I said this a few weeks ago.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:15:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, hm, how do I tell what version of a package is in RHEL?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:15:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I usually look at CentOS.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:17:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And anyway, I can't create the keytab.  Send it to accounts

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:25:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, can I get krbtgt/DEHNERTS.COM? Or adehnert/asa?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:25:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

adehnert/asa is totally reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:25:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, why did this come up?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:28:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2012/03/do-you-need-phd.html
==

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:30:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

While I'm on the blog,
http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2012/02/my-love-affair-with-code-reviews.html

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:31:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Most of the PhD graduates I meet are less awesome than he
describes.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:31:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

I think there might be a false presumption of causality
here.

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:32:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

For example, " A systems-oriented PhD requires that you run
a zillion measurements and present the results in a way
that is both bullet-proof to peer-review criticism (in
order to publish) and visually compelling." all I can say
to that is "my ass"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:32:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

"Are you *sure* you actually read any papers during your grad school
career?"

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:33:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

If you, like me, got fed up with the font:
http://www.readability.com/articles/yvw3e2ha

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:43:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

The font looks fine to me (it's Cambria, which is not my favorite),
though if you're not running Windows it sounds like it's getting
substituted with something, shall we say, bolder?

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:43:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks perfectly fine on my Debian box

Class: geofft Instance: academia
Time: Wed Mar 14 14:44:09 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Fine on OSX

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:29:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... are there _no_ zipcars in Redwood City?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:29:49 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What do you think this is, the east coast?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:30:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

There are (at least in 2009?) at least two in the hospital parking lot across
from M5.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:30:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

(I used them to go on In & Out runs.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:31:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The ZipCar website is not really agreeing with you. (Also, I
specifically want an SUV/truck, which makes this harder)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:33:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

augh the ZipCar website sucks so much

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:46:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

==kaduk

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

I think there's like, only one zipcar in all of the bay area,
somewhere on Stanford's campus.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:46:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:46:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha. There are several Prii in Stanford, as it turns out.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:47:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I don't really want a Prius right now

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:49:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It would be entertaining if ZipCar had, say, an F-250.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 14 15:49:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It could be used to terrorize the roads.

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Wed Mar 14 17:35:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<!-- Apply the security here -->

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Wed Mar 14 17:35:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I apply security one, I apply security two, I...

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Wed Mar 14 17:43:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

so take a nap. ZEN APPLY ZE SÉCURITÉ

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar 14 17:57:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

need more caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Mar 14 17:58:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

shouldn't have stayed up quite as late talking about copyright law

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Wed Mar 14 18:39:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Guys, I think you broke your templating system

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 19:22:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of these days I will get used to .equals(). Not today

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Mar 14 19:27:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

here's a Lama, there's a Lama, and another little Lama
Dalai Lama, Panchen Lama, Lama Lama duck

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Mar 14 19:30:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Rama Rama Hare Hare Hare Rama duck

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 20:48:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.war! huh! yeah! what is it good for! absolutely nothing!

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 20:49:30 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

are you channeling jackie chan?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 20:50:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Admittedly, I was just reading an article with a section title ".WAR,
what it's good for", so the joke is not original to me.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 20:51:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also what is it with your people and your collective crush on XML

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 14 20:57:40 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Java likes XML because they were both trendy at the same
time. And Spring failed to break the association.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:34:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ahahaha "Jarmageddon"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:34:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

that is the best word

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:38:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of Republicans, I should register to vote.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:43:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

Yeah, you sh--oh, hey, you'll be voting in CA, won't you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:48:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

argh guys if you keep mixing tabs and spaces I will take your tab key
away

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:51:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what what are these ^Ms doing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:51:47 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Good job you found a \r\n file

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 21:52:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No. There are.... five lines in this file terminated by \r\n. The
rest are terminated by \n

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:03:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"I think we should realize that SELinux was a bad idea and pretend it
never existed"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But, you know, if you want to keep trying to use SELinux, have fun

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:33 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"It works just great on my laptop!"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It /was/ originally created by the NSA. Maybe it's a deliberate
tarpit.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Current issue: if you mkdir something in /run (or /var/run), it needs
restorecon run on it

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:04:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do wonder how Red Hat solves this.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:05:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

a restorecond...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:05:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

restorecond?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:05:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the worst program ever.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:06:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is impossible to have SELinux semantics if it's running.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:06:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Wait, that wasn't a joke?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:07:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, I was totally serious. I apparently don't have it, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:07:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

IBTSOCS

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:08:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*makes a note to add it to the section of my thesis where I make fun
of SELinux*

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:10:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The best part: restorecond is itself confined by selinux.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:10:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yo dawg I herd you leik daemons to fix your security contexts, so we
put your daemon into confinement so it wouldn't hurt itself. Oh, and
we made it useless, too.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:10:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does it have the SELinux equivalent to CAP_SYS_ADMIN?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:11:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i CAP_MAC_OVERRIDE

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:11:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

FIIK. It's definitely confined, and you can see avc denials on the
internets where people have posted. I don't run it, so I wouldn't
know. (The only reason I ahve selinux on is because it hasn't affected
me, so I didn't bother to turn it off)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:20:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

We do have a pre-commit hook, at least for the client, that prevents
you from checking in files with tabs

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:21:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

CAP_NOT_REALLY_MAC

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 14 22:21:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the server, which looks to be an entirely different story
from the client. (On the bright side, I can git-svn import the entire
server repo)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:43:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

auwaugh. I will take the tab keys I've stolen from the people who
wrote this code, and use them to poke out the eyes of whoever
invented Eclipse's refactoring feature

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:43:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Err?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:44:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why? Alt+Shift+R for renaming stuff is awesome!

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:45:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Except people are really good at making typos that propagate across
the entire codebase

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:45:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And if you don't have automated refactoring tools, you are likely to
get it right at _least_ once and notice the compile failure

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:46:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...we can fix this by adding a CamelCaseSpellChecker to it

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Mar 15 00:46:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

mvn spellcheck

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:52:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aww, didn't get a reply from Guillem. But I _did_ get a reply from
Raphael saying even more explicitly that Guillem is wrong

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:53:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dishwasher. It required a Ford Escape ZipSUV

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:54:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

which is... a really nice car to drive

Class: geofft Instance: gotItem
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:54:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Was it the hybrid model?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:54:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Yeah, Raphael's writeup definitely agrees with my interpretation of
Guillem's e-mail

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 15 14:55:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Though he's less willing to criticize Guillem's ability to play nicely
with others than I am)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 15 15:17:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's this about?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Thu Mar 15 15:34:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Lost subs since 4:19 AM EDT

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 15:58:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have forgotten how square dancing works :-(

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 15:58:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Well, either that or he's zephyring to classes where I'm not subbed."

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 15:59:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers In, Cast Off 3/4 <kchen>

There have been 3 zephyrs from the start of the sequence, all to
places I think you're subbed.  (So this is the fourth call.)

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:01:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm trying to figure out how / remember how "all four couples right
and left through" doesn't translate to "all four couples collide with
each other"

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:01:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(was there anything before that and after "promenade home"?)

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:01:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All 8 Circulate <kchen>

Oh, you're talking about a previous sequence.  All Four Couples Right
and Left Thru is an A1 call.  (All Four Couples is an A1 concept.)

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:02:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OK.

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:02:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel less bad about being confused then

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:02:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: End Boy Run <kchen>

All 4 Couples Right & Left Thru
All 4 Couples Pass the Sea
All 8 Alter the Wave
Right and Left Grand
(Resolves at Home)

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:03:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Trade <kchen>

Oh wait, you said Promenade home, not resolves at home.  That might
have been an even earlier sequence.  What date/time?

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:03:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

18:49/50 last night?

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:05:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Swing Thru <kchen>

ah, yeah, those are two consecutive zephyrs.  In any case, with all 4
couples, basically heads work with people at head positions, sides
work with people at side positions, and there's a traffic pattern so
you don't run into everyone.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:15:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

engrish comments are the best

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:21:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Pass the sea? *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:23:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently I'm supposed to tell people to vote for us in this thing
http://www.virtual-strategy.com/madness2012

Class: geofft Instance: kchen.zsigs
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:25:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Circulate <kchen>

fwiw, Pass the Ocean: pass thru, face in, step to a right hand wave.
Pass the Sea changes the last part to step to a left hand wave.
(Because of the right shoulder pass thru, there's no nice hooking that
goes on like in pass the ocean.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:35:07 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hilarious -- this is a pure web survey?  With no fewer than six rounds of
runoffs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:35:56 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think your place in the next round is pretty much secure.  When it gets
to a handful of contestants advancing, then the competition will be
stiffer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:37:06 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This is a lot of enterprise vendors (would-be enterprise vendors?)  I've
heard of about five of these 71.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 16:39:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

How would I do anything other than vote randomly for 15
other people in addition to my friends?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 15 17:31:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really have no idea. (I also don't really know what the point of
this is.)

Class: geofft Instance: work.wat
Time: Thu Mar 15 17:55:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why did my /dev/shm get chmod 1755?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Mar 15 18:52:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

+++++++


Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:30:26 -0400
From: Anant Agarwal <agarwal@csail.mit.edu>
To: csail-all@csail.mit.edu
Subject: [csail-all] CSAIL

Dear all

I am writing to let you know about an extraordinarily difficult decision
that I have made to step down as the director of CSAIL in order to serve as
full-time director of the new MITx open learning enterprise. I have been a
member of LCS and CSAIL since 1988, and it has been a great honor to serve
CSAIL as its director this past year.  As some of you may know, I have been
trying to lead both CSAIL and MITx these past several months, but I have
come to realize that this situation cannot continue indefinitely. MITx is a
fledgling organization and getting it off the ground is a full-time
challenge, and I would like to give it my complete attention.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Mar 15 18:52:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, i-mix, whatever

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Mar 15 18:56:01 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Weapons-Grade Alcoholic Beverages) <eichin>

cool

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:00:26 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:08:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Fascinating.

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:51:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... oh hey, my VMs stopped working because I apparently pulled their
disk without noticing

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:51:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I need to find better things to fiddle with than my hard disks.

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:52:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That explains so much, though.

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:52:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

That, uh, sounds like a good plan.

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:52:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's an external hard disk! It's electronic and spinny and shiny

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:53:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Get new frobs geofft

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:54:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

short sections of bike chain, appropriately cleaned, make fabulous
frobs

Class: geofft Instance: fidgety
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:54:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

or frapps. then you're wired too

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:59:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The system's single-threaded server design has been criticized as
dated and as causing undesirable side-effects such as 100% server
processor usage, but this design (among other features) makes
FirstClass more scalable than other groupwise systems because it
causes fewer context switches."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 19:59:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Guys. Guys. Whatever you think about node.js, _FirstClass_ is not
badass rockstar technology.

Class: geofft Instance: clyde.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 20:11:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"clyde, if academia and industry were in a fight, who would win?"
"I think that academia would win, because academia can expect it to
suck, but who knows."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 20:14:40 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But it's scalable!

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 20:15:04 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You can't be web-scale without being scalable.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Thu Mar 15 20:26:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

There's a reason it's affectionately known as FirstAss by some.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 00:20:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Augh, merge conflict. "At least I'm dealing with it in git-svn"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 00:21:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, my git rebase command was incorrect. Worked beautifully, <3

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar 16 02:22:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is Chrome autocompleting http://localhost/?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar 16 02:23:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

With http://localhost/phpmyadmin/?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar 16 02:23:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because you win

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar 16 02:23:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ok the completion for https://localhost is hilarious

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Mar 16 02:24:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(it's https://localhost/owa/auth/logon.aspx?url=https://localhost/owa/&reason=0)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 07:00:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

arrrrrrrrrgh parking

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 07:01:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've decided I'm not getting a car. For the amount of money I'd spend
on loan payments + insurance + gas, I can get an Uber to take me home
if I miss Caltrain. Or get a commuter room, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:52:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Got to work at... 5 PM. I wonder if this is actually a record for me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:53:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

*something snarky about csail-related*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:53:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Today's ridiculousness involved taking an Uber to where my car was
parked.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:56:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of Ubers, it looks like getting an Uber every day between
the Caltrain station and work will be some $900/month, which I think
is less than I expect to spend on a car (including insurance, gas,
and monthly parking in the city). Which is kind of awesome.

"Getting a normal taxi would be even cheaper."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:57:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yo, I'll bet if you make this a reliable thing that you could
negotiate the price down?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:58:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

You could even, like, hire your own driver.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:58:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Quite possibly negotiating directly with one of the livery drivers
would work, but I'm not sure my schedule is reliable enough to make
that work

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 20:58:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*would be cheaper

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:00:05 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Getting your employer to run / pitch in for a shuttle would be cheaper
still

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:02:27 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Is there bike parking at the Caltrain station?  (Redwood City?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:02:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

*thinks of geofft as a motorcycle dude*

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:03:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a shuttle, but it's at dumb hours. And not enough of us are
sufficiently nightshifted to make it worth making the shuttle run later.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:04:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes, there's bike parking. I think my actual plan will be bike
between the station and work when possible, and shuttle when not and
I'm dayshifted, and Uber when not and I'm nightshifted

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:05:20 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Never mind, buy this: http://solowheel.com/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:06:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Man, I wonder how the brainstorming session that came up with that
worked. "You know what people want? A Segway, but... more dangerous"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:07:20 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't think either one is very dangerous

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:07:53 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

The Solowheel is cheaper, and looks to be a lot more portable

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:09:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The Solowheel is $1800

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:12:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, not ok

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:12:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:48:11 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Wow, that thing looks amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:50:33 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I like how their FAQ says "All riders should wear sneakers and approved
helmet and other safety gear such as knee pads when operating the
Solowheel", and then all their promotional images have people riding with
none of the above.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:51:52 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(OK, not quite all, but the most prominent ones.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:53:30 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:54:59 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh wow, this company has six products.  Here's another one:
  http://www.inventist.com/fizzsaver/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:55:48 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Or... more than that, but some of their website navigation is confusing.
Six "categories" that all sound like product brand names, I guess?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:56:18 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"When you open a new 2-liter bottle of your favorite carbonated beverage,
the fresh and zesty flavor and feel of your drink satisfies you in a way
plain beverages cannot. But you’d better drink it up quick! Otherwise
you’ll lose the bubbles and be stuck with a liquid that is flat, lifeless
and dull as dish water.

Now you can save yourself from the disappointment with The Fizzsaver."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:56:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I make my own carbonated beverages"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:57:11 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Ha, I've seen things like that at Star Market

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:57:36 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Anyway, geofft, fascinated to hear you decided to punt the car.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 21:59:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's a distinctly irrational decision, but I don't think I've
regretted any of my irrational decisions lately.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:00:03 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Keegan, do you think they were authentic Inventist(R) Fizzsaver(TM)
units, or knock-offs / independent inventions?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:00:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's a pretty easy decision to reverse, so it seems worth living with for
a while given only that you think it makes sense at all.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:01:15 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

They were less fancy-looking than this thing.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:01:38 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Like, this one also turns the bottle into a fountain-style dispenser,
which is kinda cool

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:01:46 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Dang.  I wonder if he knows about them / is planning a patent action.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:03:13 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Because this dude really seems to be living the "inventor" dream -- take
a look at all those other products on the left-hand nav -- and people
with that dream seem to feel more strongly about the patent system than
just about anyone else.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:04:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.inventist.com/stepster/
is kind of hilarious

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:06:21 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A lot of these are about human-powered locomotion, so the Solowheel
appears to be the product of long experience.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:06:53 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Including that one.  Which, I don't really see why you would use it
instead of a bike.)

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:09:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, used car salesman just called me. I told her that I've decided
not to get a car and she deleted me from the CRM and hung up before I
could finish saying bye.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:09:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently that is how you get used car salesmen to stop calling you!

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:09:57 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This one is pretty awesome:
  http://www.inventist.com/aquaskipper/
You have to watch the videos.  They're perfectly intelligible on mute.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:10:49 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, not a qualified lead => waste of time.

I bet if you said you'd bought a different car, they'd stop about equally
fast.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:11:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sure. I just expected her to ask why and convince me that I wanted one

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:11:18 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

> What do you get when you combine a bicycle, a scooter and a
> Stairmaster?  The revolutionary Stepster.  Unrevolutionary is more
> like it.  That’s because you don’t use circular motion as with a bike.
> Your leg muscles are used the exact same way they are for walking.

Actual copy, ladies and gents

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:11:44 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

And yeah, that seems beyond useless

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:12:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like "I think I want a Prius or a Corolla" merely got her to say "you
should take a look at them and then check with us, also I have this
used Prius here"

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:12:52 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, I think "don't want a car" puts you far outside the categories they
know how to sell in.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:13:03 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

They're used to competing against other people's models.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:13:44 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you're going to ride a train and then a bike... you basically belong
to some other culture than the one their customers belong to.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:13:57 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Something like Solowheel would be really nice for trips that also
include public transit

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:14:16 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, it seems a lot like a folding bike but more so.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:14:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

More so, and electric

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:14:36 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

How did you run across it?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:14:44 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't recall.  Some blog, a long time ago.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:14:50 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, that too, so it works even if you're lazy. =)

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:15:25 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

> some other culture

Well, in Boston at least, there seem to be a lot of people who own
cars but don't use them every day for commuting

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:15:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sure. I'm surprised, because I bet she actually would have been able
to convince me (and I'm frustrated enough with not having a permanent
transportation answer that I probably would have paid asking price
for anything if it was under $10K, and I think she had something like
that)

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:16:14 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A big difference is that you (a) can't use it on the street and (b) can
probably get away with it on some sidewalks.  There may be places where
you can't use it on the sidewalk either, and then you're out of luck.

Class: geofft Instance: status.O_o
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:16:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I will definitely agree that my behavior does not make me a
customer they know how to deal with. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:17:03 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I mean, I see people skateboarding or rollerblading in the street

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:17:14 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Must be pretty quiet streets.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:17:28 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I definitely saw someone going down Mass Ave on an electric skateboard
once

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:17:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We could have had it aaaaall rollerblading in the street

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:17:40 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, that... does not sound wise.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:18:50 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Speaking as someone who has taken a non-steel-protective cage vehicle (a
bike) on a road where traffic was much faster than me, and lost,
thankfully not too hard.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:19:12 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(A car sideswiped me last month and broke my wrist.)

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:21:46 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

That sucks :(

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:22:21 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

On which road did this happen?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:25:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I can imagine no way in which this thing could be considered anywhere remotely close to safe. <eichin>

> solowheel
ok, that's *terribly* cute

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:30:05 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: free as in - oh shiny thing <eichin>

(and wow, a CES demo that actually shipped? :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:50:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wheee wget

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:52:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

$ cat README.txt 
Please do not post this link on the Internet. We would rather not see
bots searching on these files thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 22:52:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"oops"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 16 23:00:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. Anyone kwow what happened to discuss.microsoft.com?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Fri Mar 16 23:34:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I should figure out how to sign my mail...

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:11:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if I want a Kindle.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:11:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, I think I decided to boycot Amazon? I wonder if I want a
Nook.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:12:28 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Babbies must be formed!  How is fire babby formed? - brogan (ADOR) <wings>

You're boycotting Amazon?

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:12:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:12:53 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: No!  You're stuck in dogma, and it's wrong!  I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! - $pikan on Power Point  <wings>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:13:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sketchy employment practices regarding how they pull off free shipping

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:14:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, because if I pay money to B&N, they're more likely to give me
physical bookstores, and I really really like physical bookstores.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:14:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I miss Borders a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:14:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Mike:    "The Fourth Dimension is a shambles?"
Bernie:  "Nobody ever empties the ashtrays.  People are SO inconsiderate." <eichin>

a coworker has ~all of them, the nook hardware is
certainly competitive, and the UI is faster than the kindle.  (as far
as I know the amazon book selection is still vastly better, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:14:26 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

"Clearly, you want a new ipad"

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:14:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do you need?  Goats.  Lots of goats. <eichin>

if you *really* like physical bookstores, the nook
has one "coolest thing ever" - when you're on the wireless *in a b&n store*
you can read any book they sell, while you're there...

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:16:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Intelligence, like Jello, is hard to measure after being thrown against a wall. <eichin>

(that said: other than the kindle itself, none of
your kindle purchases will be "shipped" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:16:58 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Sounds like a good reason to live across the street from B&N

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:18:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh, right, I mostly want a Kindle so I can read PDFs for work so we
can implement our iPad product, so maybe once the work iPad ships I
can use that <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:18:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Speaking of which, is the Nook big enough to view 8.5"x11" PDFs? (Is
any reader?)

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:19:04 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: U.N. Baby Penguin Welfare Fund... <eichin>

the Kindle/DX is.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:19:25 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Nelson was pretty disappointed reading letter size documents on the Kindle
DX.  You can ask him about it

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:19:45 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Oh good, my dog found a chainsaw! <eichin>

GoodReader on the ipad has decent margin-removal,
since most letter-sized pdfs have huge margins...

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 00:20:29 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A better vanished time <eichin>

(I haven't tried the new dx, I just have the old one)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Mar 17 01:44:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, this maintainer is quite antisocial.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Mar 17 01:44:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Surprisingly dedicated, and a stellar example of how technical
competence can make up for the inability to attract other developers.

Class: geofft Instance: ads
Time: Sat Mar 17 03:46:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Context ads have gotten _worse_ for me -- they are now advertising
websites I visited two days ago and have no more interest in.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:22:41 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

$900/mo is more than your total expected car cost? what the heck would
you be *buying*?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:23:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You also need to factor in the cost of standing around
waiting for cabs and trains.

Class: geofft Instance: kindle
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:23:32 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

I've actually been in a FC when my team volunteered to help gift-wrap.
It wasn't actually a sweatshop

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:24:40 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

I mean, I dropped my signing bonus on a ~10K used Civic, I pay ~150/mo
for insurance, and buy maybe two tanks of gas a month (if that).  And
if I want to run off to the mountains on a whim, I can. Cars are good
for more than ocmmuting.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:25:08 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

He's planning on spending more money on gas than that, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:26:01 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

Yeah, but *hundreds of dollars* worth?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:26:08 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

I do not understand your numbers

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:26:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<PLAYER: Your birth - ! (The NPCs are Dead, X-Games, ~5/18. Quoting R&GaD.)> <xavid>

Parking is probably also hundreds of dollars?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:27:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

And I get the impression he was thinking in terms of
going farther into debt for the actual car.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:29:13 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: lab126: Hilarity Ensues <paigep>

but, I mean, for the same price you could have your own car.

does work subsidize parking? it comes out to $80/mo for me in the
parking garage in my building; as I understand it, Seattle parking is
comparable to Boston, but I have no idea how that compares to where you
are.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:29:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I expect parking near work is not the problem

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 12:31:27 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'll bet his parking problem is on the home and rather
than the work end.  "I'll bet he doesn't even have to pay for parking at work"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:55:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I don't have to pay for parking near work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:55:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've been spending like $200+ on gas a month. Remember that my
commute is like thirty miles

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:56:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And it looks like monthly parking would be O($200).

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:57:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

More to the point, monthly parking wouldn't actually be near my
apartment, I couldn't get on the highway at 9 AM despite waking up
more-consistently-than-usual at 8 AM, and your time on the road is
not particularly productive.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:58:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and cars are almost useless for commuting within the city.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:59:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's also surprisingly hard to leave a car somewhere for extended
periods of time. If I don't want to use my car all weekend, I need to
move it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 16:59:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Relatedly, the closest parking garage to my apartment closes from
midnight to 8 AM, which ... if I'm going to keep those schedules, I
might as well Caltrain.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:00:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Basically having the car is a huge pain and I don't want to be
bothered to find a place to put it when I don't want it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:00:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I can take Caltrain+bike as often as I expect to, I can get a
ZipCar to run off into the mountains on a whim, for less money than
the cost of owning a car, and I can put the ZipCar back and be done
with it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:00:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

_And_ I'll get a nicer, newer car.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:13:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Rowan Williams is stepping down?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:14:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Archbishop of Canterbury)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:14:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Crap, I hope the next guy has an Anglican Communion to lead at all...

Class: geofft Instance: the-heck
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:41:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTPU

Class: geofft Instance: the-heck
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:41:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: the-heck
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:44:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-goland-http-udp-01

This is the worst internet-draft ever.

Class: geofft Instance: the-heck
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:45:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Strategic Homeland Intervention, Engagement and Logistics Division. <eichin>

I'd never heard of it before, but if it's only
part of UPnP, that's not surprising

Class: geofft Instance: the-heck
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:46:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

httpu:// URLs are also part of the proprietary Microsoft extension to
WebDAV for Exchange push notifications of emails.

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:48:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This radio station has the best music selection

Class: geofft Instance: cafe
Time: Sat Mar 17 17:48:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dancing Queen, Sweet Caroline, Dream On, a few other slightly
ridiculous things to play all together

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 18 02:06:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently we can in fact cook dinner in this apartment. And have a
bunch of people over.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 18 02:06:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am kind of full.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Mar 18 02:10:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh OWA

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Mar 18 02:10:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hear rumors we're switching to Gmail...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Mar 18 02:38:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whyyyy is the Open Group so closed

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 04:37:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

long day. long day tomorrow. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 04:37:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but! tons of fun! also bought too much food the second day in a row...

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:30:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Supposing I wanted to vacuum the carpets etc. in my car before
returning it, where would I do so? Gas station...?

And am I expected to?

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:30:41 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Man, I need more friends with a lower WIS score. - afarrell <wings>

I don't think you're expected to, though now I'm wondering what you
did to the car O.o

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:31:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're totally not expected to, they do that when they get the car
back.  I suspect if something is stained, they may want a word with
you, but if it's just dust, leaves, and stale fries, they won't care.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:32:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah, the latter

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:32:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but I ate a lot of fries <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:32:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, if _you_ care, then yes, a self-service car wash will have
vacuums, as will some gas stations.  Bring quarters.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:33:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. I kind of actually want to take it through a car wash since
there's lots of bird poopo on it.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:34:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Again, they do that when you return it

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:34:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I got scraped by another impatient car this weekend and don't
really want to mess up that area of the car...

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:34:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

They might charge you a cleaning fee if they think it's too dirty.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:35:50 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Leaving the rental mildly messy is fine. If it is messy
enough for a cleaning fee, you're not going to be able to
fix it yourself quickly. They have car-wash facilities at
the rental place.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:35:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

True, they can do that.  They may or may not.  (If you are using any
sort of corporate discount code, they almost certainly won't)

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:36:09 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Anything you can fix with a vacuum they won't even comment
on.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:36:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Take pictures of the scrape, though, they're likely to notice that.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:37:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

geofft, I think it basically needs a vacuum and a wipe down with a wet paper
towel, which sounds like they'll do without a fuss

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:37:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

They may not care if it's the kind of thing you'd get in a parking
lot.  If it's the kind of thing you get from, say, a brick wall,
they'll care.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:37:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

you should throw out the rest of the trash though

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:37:23 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

They have trash cans where you return the car.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:37:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is a surprisingly tiny rental place.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:38:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

If the scrape is longer than four inches or wahtever their
standard is, their eyes may do the spinny dollar signs
thing though. In which case being as easy as possible at
the return may help.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:38:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If it's one of those "neighborhood" places, they just drive them
somewhere else for cleaning/refueling.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:39:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ugh there is so much melatonin on the floor

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:39:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

...

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I would clean up the random mysterious pills.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:39:54 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: (on Seattle) It rains like twice a year there.  January through August and September through December. - andrewd <wings>

Were you taking melatonin while driving?  O.O

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:40:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"maybe"

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:40:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can't decide if that's better or worse than when you were
zephyring...

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:40:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

At least you weren't crushing it into powder and snorting it?

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:40:53 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_O

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:41:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft, stop trying to die

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:41:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, I aparently just spilled my entire bottle of melatonin in my bag
when flying, and apparently they slid out into the floor in front of the back seat

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 12:58:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also I love how I can say things like "I take melatonin while
driving" and y'all believe me)

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:00:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

geofft, you're crazy enough that comments like that seem "normal".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:50:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:50:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have no car! I can go ANYWHERE I WANT now  this is exciting

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:51:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's usually the opposite of how this works.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:51:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 13:53:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think you're confused about what exactly is involved in getting
ANYWHERE YOU WANT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 14:12:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It involves not having to park NOWHERE NEAR I WANT.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 14:16:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

This is probably solved by paying for parking.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 14:16:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: File a bung report. <ageng>

Or at least ameliorated.

Class: geofft Instance: rental
Time: Mon Mar 19 14:39:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow re: melatonin

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 16:58:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Paying for parking only helps in exactly one instance. (Well, I guess
it scales linearly with the number of fixed positions you're willing
to pay for, technically.) I can park a bike anywhere I want though

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 16:58:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... except at work, which apparently lacks bike racks, so people just
leave their bikes in a corner of the office. Whatever, that works.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 17:01:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I am less in shape than I last remembered. Which makes sense,
given that last I remembered I was walking a nonzero amount a day and
not driving at all...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 17:02:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

$competitor, that is the most technically wrong thing I have ever
read about virtualization. And I have read a lot of technically wrong
things about virtualization.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 17:03:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Wow, that is a *high bar*.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 17:37:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have... too many simultaneous to-do lists.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 17:37:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I should gc the proposed changes to BlueChips off my
whiteboard, since I'm clearly not getting around to _that_ anytime soon

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:01:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

huh, nobody appears to have remixed "Kids" and "Hide your kids"

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:01:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*mashed up?

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:02:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I actually have no idea how I would approach doing that

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.ttants
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:29:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Kiva Systems
Kiva the microloan people

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:34:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mn_francis/917796606/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:47:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ugh. Debian should just take over every other packaging system by force

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:58:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

broder and I have determined that "while true; do pkill -SEGV
gnome-shell; done" prevents you from logging in. Shocking, I know.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 19 18:59:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Now, back to your regularly scheduled "wtf, java".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:08:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] At both MS and VMware, standard practice seemed to be leaving
your bike in the stairwell (there'd be stairs up, but not down, so
the place that a down stair should have been was filled with bikes).

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:08:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Why were you running that?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:14:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the worst language.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:15:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently it is standard practice to distribute your binary
dependencies inside source tarballs?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:15:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Depends on your meaning of "binary" there.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:15:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

Also "standard"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:15:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"binary dependencies" is a bit misleading, since compiled class files
can be used for building.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:15:59 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

And are OS independent.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:16:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.jar. I guess they're portable, so it shouldn't sketch me for _all_
the reasons that including, like, the .so files you need along with
your C source woudl sketch me.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:16:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but it certainly sketches me for several of those reasons!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Mar 19 19:29:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Cool, I can actually justify all my dumb ideas as hipsterism.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:24:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

d'aww

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:27:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am enraged at your inferior svn-based workflow!

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:27:54 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Stallman on Malaysia?

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:28:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, Victor Zue's kid going "Hi Baba,".

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:28:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://lists.csail.mit.edu/pipermail/csail-related/2012-March/007461.html

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:29:09 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Oh, because pretty much everything Stallman says on csail-related, I
kind of go "aww that's cute."

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:29:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:41:24 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

IDK, he always says cute stuff like "I'm not flying to Malaysia
anymore" or "Debian is not free software"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:42:23 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

pro tip: flying to Malaysia is not recommended for many groups of
people. elly and I determined we shouldn't go because we'd be
executed.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:42:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I do not think that word means what you think it does"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:43:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Odds are good that this zephyr was sent ironically or sarcastically. <lizdenys>

I call many uncute things cute... but this is NOT one of them.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:43:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I totally got deported to Malaysia once.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:44:29 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I mean not the Malaysia bit specifically because I find Malaysia
actually pretty scary.  I mean more in the sense that Stallman always
has very cute reasoning for doing or not doing something

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:45:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Odds are good that this zephyr was sent ironically or sarcastically. <lizdenys>

He has highly irrational and dismissive reasoning. That's not... cute.

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:45:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i M-x animate-birthday-present

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:45:06 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

"I won't fly to Malaysia because they'll take my fingerprint" vs "I
won't fly to Malaysia because it's pretty fucking scary."

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Mar 19 22:45:39 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I just think he's become a caricature of himself.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:07:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

argh. arm pain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:09:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

#signsyoushouldgohome

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:11:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

#signsIshouldfixmyworkspace

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:14:46 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

What kind of keyboard do you use?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"a laptop sitting on a desk"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

On the bright side, it's really obvious how to fix this!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:15 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I have terrible posture and make up for it with a fancy keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also my chair is kind of low come to think of it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have a loud Das, but I feel bad using it during the day.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 19 23:15:20 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

"Aren't you in CA?  Can't you go to the beach and code there?"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:16:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The bike car is apparently actually the hipster car

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:17:15 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: "Melissa" is not a fratboy name. - ismith <wings>

I mean, bicyclists are hipsters

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:17:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but everyone is a 20-something white male with a laptop and an iPod

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:18:08 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Cruci-Os: Your day can only get better... <wings>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:19:02 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

http://catandgirl.com/?p=919
Also, every other comic on this site

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:19:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I saw the best T-shirt yesterday. It had a drawing of a burrito
on a bike wearing a scarf and sunglasses and carrying an iPhone in
one hand and a cup of coffee in the other, and below it was written
"The Mission"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:20:39 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

++

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:37:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently the hipsters all put tags on their bikes indicating
destinations, so they can avoid stacking their bikes in front of
someone who will be exiting sooner than they will

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:37:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder where I can get one of these tags

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:39:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, tempted to transfer to BART because that makes the bike ride
home shorter (since BART stops in the Mission), but the transfer
seems annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:39:42 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

The SF trip planners I have seen do NOT do a good job of showing you
best-case/worst-case time costs.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:40:03 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

If you know the interarrival time of the BART (and you do) you should
be able to say "you'll wait up to 17 minutes" or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:45:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I wish I ... knew how to put a bike on a bus's bike thing

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:45:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't want to try until I've done it once, which...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:45:47 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: We are the computer scientists who say VI!  - pbaranay <wings>

Can't you ask the bus driver?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:46:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'd feel bad slowing things down :( :(

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 00:54:02 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

If you're in the bus driver's way, they'll let you know.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 01:00:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's pretty easy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDlP3YPiCik

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 06:55:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 6/18-20 <tibbetts>

<stark> The MBTA actually has bus-bike-racks around where
you can practice. There is one at Alewife. No idea if Muni
does the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 08:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

[stark] Millbrae is a better stop to transfer to BART since the BART
station and the Caltrain station are actually the same station (you
just have to go up and down some stairs). And the times I've taken it,
BART is conveniently scheduled so that it's waiting for at least 10
minutes when the Caltrain gets in.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 08:50:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

And you can usually ask one of the train attendants (?)/people who
check tickets for a yellow bike tag.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Mar 20 10:02:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, the idea would be Caltrain to Millbrae and then BART to 24th
and Mission

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:15:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wait, where am I?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:16:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... is there BART service to Millbrae on weekdays? or did I end up at
the airport?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:16:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:16:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:17:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I don't think those are mutually exclusive.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:19:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

There is, but you have to go past the airport to get to Milbrae.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:19:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

These are growing pains; once you figure out the BART system, and how
to read its maps and train designations, you will likely enjoy it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:35:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The train I was on claimed its terminus was SFO and I had to get out
and wait for another one to go to Millbrae. Which I did, and we just
passed SFO without stopping

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:35:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unfortunately I just missed the Caltran I wanted :(

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:36:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

My only concern with Caltrain is that the signage is not very helpful
to someone who does know where Millbrae is. (Also that if I get off in
Oakland I may be pinned to the ground and shot by someone who thinks
he's using a taser.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:38:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yes, I was afraid of that. I didn't think of the SFO/Milbrae confusion
possibility, or else would have warned.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:41:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Itwouldn't have helped

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:42:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

it was the same train I would have waited for at 24th and Mission, I
just waited for it later.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:53:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

at a Pizza Hut.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:53:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

at a Taco Bell.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:53:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ALDCLUNE (n.) One who collects ten-year-old telephone directories. <ahailes>

noooooo

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:53:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

at a combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:53:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is it a KenTacoHut, or just a TacoHut?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:54:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

just the latter

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:55:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I once saw a Long John's TacoHut, which was very surreal.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Mar 20 16:55:27 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I think YUM! no longer owns LJS or A&W though

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:19:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's a wonder this code even works at all

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:20:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Someone is a huge fan of constructors that call other constructors
and loves to show off he knows the ?: operator by avoiding if/else
whenever possible

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:23:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... wat why is a mutable global variable in a file called "contants"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:23:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If the file is actually called "contants"[sic], that might explain it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

constants.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:24:11 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's constantly mutable?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:24:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think the trick he's pulling is that the pointer itself is final
but the object isn't?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:25:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also dude I'm glad you know how to use synchronized, but just like the
?:, cut it out

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:25:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(To be clear, this is some random LGPL'd crap, not any of my coworkers)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:28:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also what is with this indentation style
        }
}
    }

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:29:49 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's the "hahaha, you used a broken emacs" indentation style

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:30:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or alternatively "haha, you're relying on tabs rendering as a specific
number of spaces"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:49:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Neither. Apparently he likes synchronized but hates reindenting

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:50:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So the code is
class Thing {
    public void foo() {
synchronized (doohickey) {
        stuff;
        more stuff;
}
     }
     ...
}

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 17:51:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It reduces the diff! It, uh, totally makes sende. To the author. At
the time.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:53:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

new zsig

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:53:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I guess I should be happy we're not using Perforce.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:54:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Argh, we have to use perforce at gambit >.<

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:54:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I used it at Akamai. It was... weird.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:55:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I think I treated it like a (maybe-)versioning filesystem instead of
a VCS and thereby became okay with it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:57:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<(GUIL looks around him, at the audience.) GUIL: You and I, Alfred - we could create a dramatic precedent here. (The NPCs are Dead, X-Games, ~5/18. Quoting R&GaD.)> <xavid>

I just use a git interface and try not to worry too much about what's
actually going on.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 20 18:59:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah, I'm trying to use git-svn, but Reviewboard is choking on git
format-patch output. And... I'm not even convinced that it even
supports the concept of patch series even if I punch the format-patch
output into looking like svn diff output

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Mar 20 19:09:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

> Having that said, I wonder if we should discuss the possibility to
> pre-configure browser's search engines in order to provide Debian some
> income by referrals.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Mar 20 19:09:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

WARNING! WARNING! FLAME WAR INBOUND!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:35:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Biking makes it significantly more compelling to eat lots of
leftovers at work, and also significantly more logistically difficult
to bring lots of leftovers to work. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:35:52 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

saddlebag

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:35:57 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: INDIA WAS A THING MADE UP BY COLUMBUS TO GET FUNDING - haiiro <wings>

saddlebags?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:36:09 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From: Zipline from a plane onto a horse! - geofft <wings>

Derp, late

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:36:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Hm. "Does that actually work?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:36:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Saddlebags, baskets, panniers, there are a lot of ways to carry shit
on bikes.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:36:58 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i <3 my saddlebag. i kinda hate our spare bike because it doesn't have
one

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:38:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Although, admittedly, biking also makes it significantly more
compelling to go slowly through downtown and find non-sucky food
places than to find a drive-through

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:38:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I should get things for my bike...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:39:11 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i need a way to hang a milk crate over my fender, above the saddlebag.
but the seat sits slightly too low despite never having it inserted to
the minimum insertion point

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:44:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Recommendations for where to buy these things? I suppose as a
bicycle-riding Mission-dwelling hipster I should go to a timbuk2
store in person or something?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:51:35 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

A plain old backpack can hold a lot of food

Class: geofft Instance: elses.d
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:51:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/mutt-mover-dog-backpack

wat

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:52:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah, my backpack holds the same volume as one of the hand-carry
baskets in a grocery store.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:53:54 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

my local indie bike shop is a block from my local indie coffee shop
a.k.a. "my office", so i am no help

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Tue Mar 20 23:59:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

You might want to think ahead about whether you want a container that
permanently attaches to your bike or one that you can take on and off.
Also, yeah, backpacks are good too.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 00:00:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

(either way you'll ~need a rack over your back wheel first -- do you
have one of those?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 00:02:03 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the messenger bag i got from apple (wwdc07 swag) works in lieu of a
backpack for me. i prefer the messenger, really.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 00:06:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I'm using a messenger bag. Really I could probably fit a good amount
of food in it if I bothered to empty what's in it...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 00:07:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Alioth: I, uh, have a rental bike for this week (because I was
planning to reconsider the no-car decision at the end of the week,
although I doubt I'll change my mind at this point; also because I
could get one between dropping off my rental car and work without
thinking hard about whether it's the bike I want). So maybe I should
think about this once I get a permanent bike

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 00:07:55 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

mine had, today: laptop, ipad in ipad box, external 3.5" disk, rats
nest of cables.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 02:41:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

DUDE you should get a folding bike from this shop in Berkeley, want me
to take ou there tomorrow on BART?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 02:42:23 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

i,i "bikes, also bombs"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 02:42:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

So folding bikes always seem to have tiny wheels -- does that make
them annoying to ride?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 03:00:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I should be at work early tomorrow (since I need to leave work early
tomorrow)...

Also, I haven't had the regular bike be a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Mar 21 03:02:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Partly because I have constraints after work, partly because I want
to take an earlier Caltrain and determine that a non-folding bike is
in fact not a problem. (Hm, getting on at Millbrae instead of the SF
terminus may actually mean the bike car is slightly more likely to be
full...)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.d
Time: Wed Mar 21 03:03:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://bart.gov/schedules/developers/gtfs-realtime.aspx

<3

Class: geofft Instance: elses.d
Time: Wed Mar 21 03:05:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Haha re: "get a validation key".

Class: geofft Instance: transit
Time: Wed Mar 21 03:13:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Huh, Samtrans operates a bus leaving Palo Alto at {0,1,2}:48 AM and
arriving San Francisco two hours later, with stops at a few places
including Redwood City. "Good to know."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 14:29:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

You know, no comments might have been better than engrish comments

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar 21 15:26:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Wait, we're freezing in June?

Class: geofft Instance: keithw.prnf
Time: Wed Mar 21 15:42:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

DIYCrypto

Class: geofft Instance: keithw.prnf
Time: Wed Mar 21 15:42:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It's like DIYBio but better.

Class: geofft Instance: keithw.prnf
Time: Wed Mar 21 15:42:02 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

"and equally dangerous?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 15:51:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... wait, this git-svn clone that I started yesterday is _still running_?

Class: geofft Instance: mirrors@
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:22:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

So, anyone want to donate another Isilon?

Class: geofft Instance: mirrors@
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:23:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Carl Malamud wants us to mirror 31 terabytes of congressional hearings

Class: geofft Instance: mirrors@
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:23:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Is that all the video?

Class: geofft Instance: mirrors@
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:24:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah, looks like mpegs of C-SPAN.
https://house.resource.org/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:41:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

AAAARGH. [see zsig]

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:41:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Okay, I think I have finally figured out what to do with my git
patchsets and now I can keep working

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:42:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is this just "It's not git", or something worse?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:43:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Well, it was "reviewboard barfs on git-style diffs" (and trac-style
diffs), but there's code to fix that. Currently it's "geofft was
misinterpreting the reviewboard UI"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:44:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(Also, Costa claims that svn 1.7 changed to git-style diffs by
default or something?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:44:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(Oh, I guess it just supports svn diff --git-diff or so.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 16:45:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

lol people want --git-diff because Rietveld can't deal with svn-style
diffs.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:12:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.project/19956

Wait, this is way better than a flamewar. ++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:12:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"speculation over who it is?"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:12:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I hope it's Bing

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:27:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ln -s python /usr/bin/python\r <geofft>

What is this thing that looks like Python decorators?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:28:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Annotations?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:28:27 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

"Jython decorators"

Class: geofft Instance: java.d
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:29:14 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

A friend of mine recently got on the Jython train and has good things
to say

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:30:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ln -s python /usr/bin/python\r <geofft>

Aha, now I can google for it, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: java.d
Time: Wed Mar 21 17:30:31 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

He's interested in making GUIs and considers the Java GUI APIs to be
far better than anything else crossplatform... But he hates Java's
verbosity and staticness

Class: geofft Instance: git-svn.man.q
Time: Wed Mar 21 18:54:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ln -s python /usr/bin/python\r <geofft>

"Using this option for any other purpose (don't ask) is very strongly
discouraged."

Class: geofft Instance: git-svn.man.q
Time: Wed Mar 21 18:54:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ln -s python /usr/bin/python\r <geofft>

Now I'm curious.

Class: geofft Instance: git-svn.man.q
Time: Wed Mar 21 18:54:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Of course you would be.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 19:25:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

back to the old zsig for a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 19:28:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What prompted the zsig change?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 19:38:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I wanted another zsig?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 19:38:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

But then I realized I didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Mar 21 19:39:37 2012 Host: 18.208.1.237
From: 541 2462797 <cesium>

But you eated it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 01:25:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/234/739/fa5.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 01:30:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: room.ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 01:35:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Simon Pegg
Simon Peyton-Jones

Class: geofft Instance: room.ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 01:38:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"They're both British"

Class: geofft Instance: struts.wq
Time: Thu Mar 22 02:00:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"The framework is written in the popular and versatile Java
programming language. Java is an object-orientated language, and the
framework makes good use of many object-orientated techniques."

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Thu Mar 22 04:03:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... did the driver just stop, get out, cross the street, go to his
car, drop off some bags, and get back in and keep driving???

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:53:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

You can't eat in the stations or the train cars? what

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:54:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Square Chain Thru <kchen>

Same with DC.  I've heard people assume that about the MBTA, although
I'm not sure.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:54:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Trade By <kchen>

I'm not sure why, I mean.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:56:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

well, they loudly announce a $250 fine every few minutes. Never heard
an announcement on the T

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:56:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain The Square <kchen>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/07/AR2006010701003.html

Girl Arrested For Eating in Subway
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94999&page=1#.T2tnuSaiIYw

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:56:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Couples Circulate <kchen>

Right, the T doesn't care -- I'm just confused as to why some people
assume it does.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:57:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Plain Bob Major! <ezyang>

what I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 13:58:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross & Wheel <kchen>

Apparently DC has fixed that issue:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/07/AR2006010701003.html

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 14:00:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Criss Cross The Shadow <kchen>

Oops, didn't realize I had posted the Washington Post article in the
first zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 14:26:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Then when these things are in some precious book you can go to the book & turn over the pages & for you it will be your church — your cathedral — the silent places of your spirit where you will find renewal. (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

I can sorta understand train cars, but stations is weird.  (I'm used
to there being food for sale in some stations.)

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:20:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Well, it's within the paid area of stations.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:21:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I wonder if that's because authority for cleaning the non-paid area
is delegated to the city workers who clean the outside / the streets,
where people eat, but once you pass the fare gate the set of people
who can clean it is more restricted and so they clean it less often?

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:23:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Spin Chain & Exchange The Gears <kchen>

http://www.bart.gov/news/articles/2008/news20080331.aspx has some of
the reasoning.

Class: geofft Instance: libpng
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:27:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... how hard is it to write a correct png decoder, guys

Class: geofft Instance: libpng
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:28:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: measuring inexactness of the mitochondrial respiratory chain complex since the 1960s <ageng>

...isn't that the reference implementation?

Class: geofft Instance: libpng
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:28:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Easy, if you aren’t writing it in C.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:39:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Connie Chan <conch>

I've never seen the rule being enforced. People eat on BART all the
time.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:51:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

hybrid car
hybrid bike

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:51:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

human-animal hybrid

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:54:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

cylon hybrid

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 15:57:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And they have a plan.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 16:11:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I already said something about ripping people's tab keys from their
keyboard and poking their eyes out with it if they kept mixing tabs
and spaces, right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 16:11:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I can't remember what sorts of violent rage I've expressed on this
instance

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:02:45 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Well, there's a Right Way to mix tabs and spaces, which is actually
pretty nice, but I've never seen a project with more than one
contributor that followed this consistently.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:03:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

OpenAFS has many places which are not too terrible about it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:03:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It matters way more if it's Python...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:04:09 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah, it's a common question in #haskell as well

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:04:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Does Emacs support this Right Way yet?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:06:32 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I think so...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:08:31 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I refer to the style where a tab stands for 1 unit of logical
indentation (which is an unspecified amount of horizontal space).  Two
points are vertically adjacent if they have the same number of tabs
followed by the same number of non-tab characters.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:10:38 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Users (and languages) can disagree about the physical width of a tab,
according to preference, and the code will still look right

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:11:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Okay, it looks like somebody went and wrote this code, but it’s still
not part of the Emacs distribution.
http://emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:12:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

The thing people fuck up is that if you write

  int reallyLongFunctionName(int x,
                             int y

then "int y" needs to be preceded by 27 spaces, not 3 tabs and 3
spaces, or 6 tabs and 3 spaces, or...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:14:36 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah, the screenshot at the bottom is what I'd want to see in an
editor supporting this style

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:15:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

And vim looks like a similar story.
http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Indent_with_tabs,_align_with_spaces#Smart_tabs
Keegan, what editor do you use?  Do you go and type out all the tabs
and spaces yourself?  Not even I can be bothered to do that manually.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:15:31 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

No, I don't use this style.  It's not worth the effort and confusion

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:15:39 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

(I use Vim with relatively few customizations)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:16:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yeah.  You are, of course, completely Right, but it will never ever
happen without widespread editor support.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:16:41 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't think it will happen even then

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:20:22 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's really a tiny subset of the problem "How can two users edit the
same code under different choices of concrete syntax", and there's
been lots of academic research on that topic, but not much of it has
escaped the lab

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:21:59 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I'm sure there are people who check out code, run 'indent' on it,
edit, and then run 'indent' again with different settings before
committing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:22:31 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

To return it to the previous code style?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:27:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:46:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Keegan, you'll like this
http://nickgravgaard.com/elastictabstops/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:46:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Also, my actual complaint is mixing tabs that are meant to represent
four spaces, tabs that are meant to represent eight spaces, and spaces.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:46:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*twitch*

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:49:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Woah. How do they do the embedded score thing!? want
http://musescore.org/en/musescore-1.2-released

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:51:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Magical javascripts.

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:51:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

This doesn't particularly answer my question, but, cool, fugue on the
Angry Birds theme.
http://blog.musescore.com/post/10854098002/embed-sheet-music-online

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:51:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Actually, the important part of the content is just an image

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:51:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://static.musescore.com/39069/123f429e59/score_0.png?no-cache=1330712971

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:52:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yes, but the synchronization of music and image is well done

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:52:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(The measure highlights are done by creating a div for each measure and
absolutely positioning them)

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:52:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I mean, the point is more like "this seems like a packaged thing I
can use". And I guess the answer is musescore.com

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:54:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: crispy fries. <eichin>

1.1 is in ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:55:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I think musescore.com != musescore.org, and the web bits may be
proprietary. Which I don't really mind, I guess

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:55:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(1.2 was just uploaded to Debian, closing two of my bugs, which is
why I was reading the release announcement)

Class: geofft Instance: musescore
Time: Thu Mar 22 17:55:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,707,641. Issued April 27, 2010; 6th of 6. <eichin>

ahh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:21:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

www.freedesktop.org is down again? How hard is it to run a web server?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:25:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Want to start a pool on how much data they lose this time?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:25:41 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

If they could keep a web server running, they'd obviously be doing
that instead of being desktop developers.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:26:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

broder++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:26:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Over-under on number of git repositories that somebody doesn't have an
up-to-date clone of lying around"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:31:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

From the Google cache of fd.o/admin/blog:

Mon, 05 Mar 2012

Annarchy moved into a VM

The hardware annarchy.freedesktop.org was running on was getting old
and started having memory errors. As a stop-gap measure, the machine
has moved wholesale into a virtual machine running on teodor. It also
got some more memory and CPU in the process and so should hopefully
be a bit snappier.

Sorry about the lack of notification surrounding this, but the
hardware errors made posting anything a lot harder, since this blog
runs on the host which had errors.
– tfheen

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:35:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] <3 the comic.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:52:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] What happened last time?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:53:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

people.fd.o lost a disk and had no backups of it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 18:55:14 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah, I do like that

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Thu Mar 22 20:55:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

filial obligations (of a human child)
fillial obligations (of a horse child)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 21:41:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/173/581/Whatwat.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 21:46:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Also, the Engrish comments continue to be hilarious, e.g. a sleep is
commented with
//Take a naps and try again.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 21:46:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... once that section of code is done, we see the comment
//COOL!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 22 22:31:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(:

Class: geofft Instance: patents
Time: Fri Mar 23 01:17:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

This Mayo v. Prometheus decision is actually kind of awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: patents
Time: Fri Mar 23 01:18:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1150.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: patents
Time: Fri Mar 23 01:25:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Mostly because it sounds like it has an interesting impact in getting
to the point where software patents don't exist

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:12:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Lost some more subs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:13:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Also, either public transit has this wonderful habit of showing up
five minutes before it's useful, or I have this wonderful habit of
showing up five minutes after it's useful.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:14:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

that was my experience over the summer.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:17:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

like if I'd woken up ten minutes earlier, I would have been at work
two hours before I expect to get to work now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:18:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(I'm in a Starbucks in Trainstationland, Transfer City, Outer Suburbia)

Class: geofft Instance: patents
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:19:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Red Hat lawyer on Mayo v. Prometheus (via LWN):
http://opensource.com/law/12/3/prometheus-bound-important-precedent-next-software-patent-case

Class: geofft Instance: patents
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:20:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(Also, the fact that it was 9-0 is really something.)

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:23:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

my personal laptop's password
my work laptop's password

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Fri Mar 23 15:24:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

This gets even more confusing because I do things like hack on the
train, have open buffers when I get to work, and end up using my work
laptop for zephyr and my personal laptop for work

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:37:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I have this growing file listing websites and `openssl rand -base64
24` answers to their security questions...

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:37:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...why? Do you actually think you're more likely to keep track of the
file than remember your actual password to the site?

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"Growing up on 2HFSk2sM/t1+UpRZHXkFLbZbAEuky/tY Lane was so much fun!
I visited my grandparents, Mr. and Mrs. b4NhDHtrsyRnnk647h4mssPc all
the time"

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I keep them in the same file as my passwords.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

No. But since you can log in with _either_ the password or the
security question, you want to make the security question at least as
entropic as your password.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Nelson: Then why bother to save them at all?

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I think broder is suggesting you do so and then throw away the result.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:38:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

And if you trust your ability to remember your password, then you can
make them ludicrously entropic and also not save them

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:39:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Right. You might as well save them

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:39:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Paranoia that some day I will have to talk to a human who will refuse
to help me without the answer to my security question.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:39:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

And I think I trust my ability to not let the file fall into wrong
hands, even if I don't trust my ability to not outright lose the file

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:40:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Okay, why has nobody made sorryyouwereoffended.com?

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:40:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I have not yet had the chance to tell a support rep over the phone
that m mother's maiden name is hG8aKob19CfN. I am frankly looking
forward to it.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:41:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

i,i Nelson El-Hag8aKob19CfN.

Class: geofft Instance: security-questions
Time: Fri Mar 23 16:41:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It would be an interesting demonstration of whether or not the rep can
see the answer before you tell them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 17:11:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Things I still don't understand, partial list: classloaders

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:13:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

JAVA AND WINDOWS
Y U NOT C AND LINUX

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:13:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:14:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DEBUG THIS WITHOUT STRACE

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:14:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

AND/OR GDB

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:14:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You do have strace. It's called Process Monitor.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:15:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It's true. But C programs tend to hew closely enough to the system
call interface that seeing strace output is useful, and I doubt Java
will work that way

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:16:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, you also have the Eclipse debugger (which is not terrible for
Java), and the various java decompiler plugins (which tend to work
spookily well) for things you don't have source for.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:16:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

:/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:17:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

But that's predicated on JDWP working, and I can't get jdb(1) to stay
attached to my process.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:18:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...what are you doing that breaks JDWP?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:19:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Forking, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:19:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

But I don't know because I don't have strace.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:19:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It's all "the process exited" and I'm all "dude the process just
started what are you talking about"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:22:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

aha! procmon has told me that the file I thought it was logging to
and the file it is logging to are two different things. Thank you,
winstrace

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:22:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Other things that would have told me this include /proc/*/fd. But do
I have a /proc/*/fd on Windows? Noooo.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:23:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Mumble mumble process handle table mumble windbg mumble

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:23:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:23:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Okay, we're back to stabbing classloaders

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:24:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Are your classes being loaded in the wrong place?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:24:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

They're just not being loaded

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 18:44:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I have too much hair

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:13:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Why... is my webapp's controller serializable???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:14:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

You work with a smalltalk/seaside enthusiast?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:14:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I think I'm using Java!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:14:29 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

"You can write smalltalk in any language"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:14:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://struts.apache.org/2.0.6/struts2-core/apidocs/com/opensymphony/xwork2/ActionSupport.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:15:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I actually have no idea, I don't ever use the web stuff in
java.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:16:15 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

And my world mostlyt hinks that object serialization in
java is an antipattern.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:18:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Believable

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:18:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> controller...serializable

IIRC, you don't want to know the answer to that one.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:24:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Okay then!

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:41:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

How do you people _live_???
http://serverfault.com/questions/7263/convenient-windows-equivalent-to-tail-f-logfile

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:43:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

In my experience, by giving up after two days and installing Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:47:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah, I should possibly figure out if our server product works on
Linux. "It's Java, that means it's portable right"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:48:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(certainly I've been testing the piece of our server product that I'm
hacking on locally, but I'm doing installer testing)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:48:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am kinda surprised that that isn't the first thing you tried to
figure out.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:49:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Haha, our installer in xmonad is funny

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:49:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Java in xmonad usually is.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:49:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Well, so, it tries to write to \Program Files, automatically elevate
permissions, etc.etc.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:49:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, like that.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:55:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Lazyzephyr, what's the Java equivalent to Python's foo(*thing) syntax?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:56:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I think the answer used to be "hahahahaha" or maybe "The Reflection
APIs", but maybe there's a better answer these days.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:56:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah, I almost went with reflection, but that seems dumb

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:57:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Object... args

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:57:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, really.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:57:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That's how you accept multiple args, I think he wants to call a
function with an array of args.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:57:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Er, sorry, I was unclear. Actual parameter thing, not formal

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:58:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh. I think you may be out of luck.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:58:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

e.g.
def quack(foo, bar):
  print "%s %s" % (foo, bar)

quack(*["duck", "duck"])

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:58:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Right, I was confused because that's also how you *declare* a function
as varargs.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:58:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:59:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... Apparently the answer is "there are no callers of this function,
at all, so I can just change its prototype to accept an array

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:59:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yay?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:59:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think your only option is to give up and use reflection, either on
the code or on where your life went so horribly wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:59:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...or that.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 19:59:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:00:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

++

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:00:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

If it takes Object... args, I think just passing an array will DTRT.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:00:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

No, I think it decides that an array is a type of object.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:00:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

++glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:00:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Or am I wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:01:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

An array is...sort of an object.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:01:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

and sort of a Really Bad Idea Someone Had.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:02:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(it's passed by pointer like an object, but it's not really an object.
it doesn't have methods or fields. the things that *look* like fields
on an array are actually special jvm instructions.)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:02:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Haha. The Internet even suggests that, while passing two or more
nulls will do what you expect, passing one null will treat it as an
array and trigger a NullPointerException.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:03:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Wat

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:03:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Amazing, and *almost* logical.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:10:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... why is there a reference in our source to Ubuntu Christian Edition?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:10:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:11:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Oh, I bet this is back from when old-MokaFive was like "wooooo all
the VMs with all the OSes woooo" instead of having a plan to make money

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:12:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://lab.mokafive.com/ListDetail/Ubuntu_Christian_Edition_4_0_lab

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:22:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Still awesome: git

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:23:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I made an annoying commit that renamed a bunch of files and had some
work on top of it, and then I wanted to not rename those files

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Answer:
1) git rebase -i, and add an "exec git revert HEAD" at the appropriate point
2) git rebase -i and get rid of both the commit and its revert
Because of the temporary revert, git will automatically rewrite
further patches to the (un)renamed paths

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:24:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Well, hm, it's entirely possible I didn't actually have any work on
top of it <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:24:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...I didn't know git rebase had "exec"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:28:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Terrifing! http://www.e-sword.net/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:29:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

http://www.e-sword.net/training/memory.viewlet/memory_viewlet_swf.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

The product has a "fill in the blanks" mode for memorizing Scripture,
which, hmm..

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:30:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Scripture mad libs!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:30:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

"No temptation has overtaken ____ ____ is ____ common to man. God is
faithful, and he will ____ let ____ beyond your ability, but _____ the
temptation he will also provide the ____ of escape, ___ ____ may be
able to ____ it."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:31:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

I dunno, it only kinda works.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:31:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You just have to try a little

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:31:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No temptation has overtaken ______ except what is ______ to mankind
                             noun                  adj

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 20:32:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, that definitely seems to drop the words that would be easy to
remember

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 21:37:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... totally just misread an "and your soul" when glancing at the
Windows license agreement

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Mar 23 21:52:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

oh no it's jidanni

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Mar 23 21:52:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

This has just not been a good week to be subbed to debian-devel

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:09:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Unrelated to previous zephyr on this instance:

"For instance, one of two most supported candidates for presidence of
France is actually proposing to modify the French constitution in a
way opposite to the spirit of your disclaimer, by removing the
mention that French citizens of different races are equal, to
underline that the French republic does not recognise the concept of
race."

wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:34:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Dammit Oracle die in a fire

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:35:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

aka "shut up and accept my acceptance of your license agreement"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:35:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I really wish there were a Windows build of OpenJDK

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:42:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... okay, this is broken in another VM and also differently broken on
my Linux host. Can anyone else successfully download the 32-bit
Windows JRE (not the JDK) linked from
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html
?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Define "successfully"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:42:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Like, start the download

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:42:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Get an exe

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Online or offline?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Either.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(I tried offline first)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

net::ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

== in Firefox on Natty.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:43:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

IE 9 and I think 8 too insist that I need to agree to the license
terms.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 23 22:48:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

-> SF

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:38:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

San Francisco has mandated zero waste by 2020? How does that... work?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

They can shut SF down

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:39:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

They're planning to discover a flaw in the laws of thermodynamics by
2016.
That and to start eating old people.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:39:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

shawest: That seems like that would generate... an entire city of waste

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:41:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Not if you also delete the city!

Class: geofft Instance: sf.roomq
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:49:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"I... can't figure out how to sign up for trash service on this
website. But I can apply to be an artist in residence with the trash
company."
"That sounds like such a San Francisco problem"

Class: geofft Instance: sf.roomq
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:51:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm going to bet that they probably get plenty of attempted signups.
just submit an application

Class: geofft Instance: sf.roomq
Time: Sat Mar 24 01:51:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Here, you apply:
http://www.recologysf.com/AIR/apply.htm

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 02:59:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

For starters, you don't count recycling or compost as "waste".

Then I think you only pay attention to businesses or something

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 02:59:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It suddenly becomes much easier to be "waste-free"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 03:55:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

AIUI, lots of recycling/compost.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:39:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

You can't recycle/compost everything. (I'm perfectly happy to call
those two not waste!) Like, what do I do with torn underwear, or
paper someone vomited on, or used kleenexes or feminine products or
whatnot? Or even used cooking oil? What about dead insects picked up
with a paper towel?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:39:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Or just non-recyclable plastics?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:42:04 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Are people always coming around your house and vomiting on your
papers?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:42:08 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I hate it when that happens.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:44:01 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I think at least half of what you said is compostable.  Like, dead
insects and bits of trees turn into dirt in nature, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:44:35 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Used cooking oil can be turned into biodiesel fuel, though it's
probably not economical to collect it from individual homes (using
diesel-powered trucks) to do so

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:45:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://gizmodo.com/5895010/the-case-against-google

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:49:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah, it's quite plausible that vomited-on papers, used sanitary
products, and dead insects are secretly all compostable. Maybe even
cotton underwear. It's a little weird though, and it's not clear to
me everyone will be convinced of that by 2020.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:49:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

But the thing is that _zero_ waste seems like a strange goal. I would
buy a <1% waste goal.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:50:07 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

"Zero waste" sounds good but isn't actually feasible or desirable,
just like "zero plane crashes"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 06:55:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Eliminating that last 1% would be a horrible self-indulgent waste of
money that would be better spent on pretty much any other cause.  But
it won't happen, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:07:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I have to say, ==keegan, every. single. thing you said is compostable.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:08:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Like, I agree with your general point that there are probably things
which are actual waste.... but for the life of me I can't actually
think of anything!  

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:09:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I totally agreew with the 1% point though. 

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:10:09 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Metal isn't compostable, but is often recyclable
I don't know if they plan on collecting used burrito wrappers and
melting them down, or what

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:10:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yes.  I ... recycle burrito wrappers.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:10:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Perhaps I've been living in SF for too long, but my roommate is really
anal about recycling and composting.  I'd get yelled at if I threw out
any of those things mentioned.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:11:22 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Styrofoam is neither compostable nor recyclable, as far as I know

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:11:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oooh, good point.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:11:44 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

But for all I know it's banned from the entire city of SF

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:11:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I can't think of anythign I commonly buy that has styrofoam.  Can you?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:12:21 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Not personally, but e.g. foam coffee cups are pretty common still

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:12:53 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

When you buy meat at the supermarket, it's usually plastic-wrapped and
on some kind of foam tray

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:13:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Bingo!  Okay, meat.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:13:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I... am not 100% sure but I think ou are right -- will pay attention
next time.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:13:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Coffee cups are paper, not styrofoam.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:16:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I know that Starbucks cups are, but I'm thinking of coffee in a motel
or a bad office building or something.  They have the big tank of
coffee, and a stack of foam cups next to it

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:16:14 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Maybe this too has been replaced and my perceptions are out of date

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:16:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I think they are.  Though again, I could be wrong, I'll pay attention
next time I'm in a starbucks or a shitty motel.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:17:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(This is a really pedantic point though, your general point still
makes sense though)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:17:16 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's not clear to me that eliminating solid waste is a pressing social
concern compared to all the other things we can worry about,
environmental and otherwise

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:17:30 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It is sometimes a local concern because of running out of landfill
space

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:17:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yep.  < about 10% seems right.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:17:56 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

But it seems like trash properly buried in a landfill is a problem for
another day, in a way that global warming isn't

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:18:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I'm... not convinced of that.  They seem very similar to me, it's all
just a fashion of degrees.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:18:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Well, okay.  *eliminating* sure

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:19:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

But I'd say the same thing for eluminating emissions.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:19:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Er, we're nowhere near running out of landfill space on a global
scale.  We might have to haul trash further in the future

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:20:32 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Whereas the consequences of global warming are a pressing and dire
concern unless we take action right now, and probably still then

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:20:55 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yeah, and we're nowhere near running *out* of space in the air for
emissions.  

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:21:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

But it does need to be cut down by 90%

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:21:12 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I was in a conversation about "zero emissions" with someone
yesterday, whose argument was that zero emissions, like
zero defects (a common manufacturing principle) is a good
way to think about the problem and actually get to 99%.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:21:53 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Maybe you can explain how trash sitting in a landfill harms the
environment outside of that landfill

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:21:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

And when thinking about landfills, realize that a large
fraction of landfill contents is construction debris, and a
lot of construction debris is discarded because doing
otherwise is hard.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:22:10 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's possible there's some effect here I'm ignorant of

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:22:22 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Trash sitting in a landfill is made of extracted resources
which are less recoverable once we put them in a landfill.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:22:40 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

That argument applies more to aluminum cans than to cotton
underwear of course.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:22:49 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't see how "enough space in the air for emissions" is relevant.
That's... not how global warming works

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:22:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I donno, I just don't see how it's any different than emissions.
It's all just a matter of degrees.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:23:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Hotels have mostly switched to paper coffee cups. I think
the only holdout for stryofoam I see is Dunkin Donuts.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:23:48 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

It's different because one problem will kill many millions of
people within the next 50 years and the other won't?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:24:19 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

You asked why trash sitting in a landfill is a problem.
Maybe I didn't catch up enough to realize you were asking
of trash or CO2 is a bigger problem.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:24:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

But, if you are looking at dumping things in landfills,
it's worth thinking about the emissions profile of the
stuff you are dumping. For example. drywall is very
greenhouse gas intensive.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:24:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

> I think the only holdout for stryofoam I see is Dunkin Donuts.

Which.... sadly..., does not exist here ;.;

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:25:11 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

The context was just wondering which problem is more pressing

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:25:45 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

We can afford to put off dealing with solid waste accumulation, we
can't afford to put off dealing with global warming

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:26:03 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

That is true.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:26:10 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

On the other hand, maybe we are so fucked wrt global warming that we
*should* ignore it and focus on making the remaining dry land nicer to
live on!

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:26:34 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

We will eliminate solid waste and then relocate half of India to
former landfills!

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:27:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh, I have no idea which is more pressing.  I fee like once the
conversation is at "Which is more pressing" then the argument is
already won, kinda like the old joke about "well, now it' sjust a
matter of negotiation" w.r.t. women and prostitutes :p

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:27:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Apparently DD is working on the problem, but wants
something better than existing paper cups:
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/boston/12005390958554/dunkin-donuts-says-goodbye-to-styrofoam-cups/

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:34:59 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Er, which argument is won?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:41:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

1) Why is Nickolai awake?
2) Why is he committing to the 858 repo?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Mar 24 07:42:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I guess 7 AM isn't actually a crazy time for real people to be awake.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 08:36:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> But for all I know it's banned from the entire city of SF

i get stuff shipped to me backed in styrofoam sometimes. or some ikea
furniture (not much) used it between pieces inside the box

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sat Mar 24 08:38:16 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Maybe you can explain how trash sitting in a landfill harms the   
>       environment outside of that landfill

once that landfill is full and you must haul further to the next one,
fossil fuels to do so have impact, is the simplest choice for that.

> fraction of landfill contents is construction debris

a lot (not all) is clean fill and should be used while, well,
terraforming.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Mar 24 12:16:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

He and Kaashoek are also going to be in Taiwan for some conference.
It's possible they're already there?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 24 23:48:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I could go be productive and do laundry and wash dishes and such...
or I could work on my thesis

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Mar 24 23:48:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It's raining, so I am way less inclined to do laundry than I should be

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:16:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

These!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:38:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Melanie Goetz <melg>

You're still finishing up?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:38:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

In theory.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:39:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Melanie Goetz <melg>

Seriously, do it. I have learned that if you don't finish up school
asap while in school mode you will never ever do it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:39:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It's not implausible I'll end up going "who needs an MEng anyway". I
should probably try to get a paper out of it though

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:39:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I'm .... not really in school mode <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:39:55 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Were you supposed to have finished last month?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Mar 25 00:40:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I was supposed to have finished at the end of January

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Mar 25 03:56:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/25/lead-bullets/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 16:51:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Haha, some TV show on how to hack into an elevator:
http://i.imgur.com/RL3Gb.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 16:54:24 2012 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 163 5323 <cesium>

https://plus.google.com/103112149634414554669/posts/fzuUCd3BUu6

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 16:58:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

In other news, apparently /r/AskAcademia exists and new professors
ask other folks how to negotiate faculty jobs. The Internet is an
amazing place
http://redd.it/rc6fi

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 16:59:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Rounds! <ezyang>

ooh, thanks for the pointer.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 17:07:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Hahahaha, you would enjoy that subreddit, wouldn't you

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.catacombs
Time: Sun Mar 25 17:09:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Okay, this post is quite awesome.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Catacombs/comments/rc35h/sex_and_catacombs/

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:32:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

So the annoying thing about commuting is that it makes it hard to
attend evening things in the city, and you don't really feel like
attending evening things closer to work

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:33:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"Yeah, this is why we don't work in the southbay"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:33:55 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I speculate that the solution might actually be to live in
the south bay and drive to SF for evening things.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:34:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I guess that makes it more reasonable to have a car?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:34:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

It sounds like it would, be but really, it's not.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:35:02 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Well, a domicile that comes with a parking space makes it
more reasonable to have a car, and that's going to be more common down there.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:35:30 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Er, I know some people I guess who live in burlingame and drive up
here occasionally for parties, but they always have to leave early,
and also, the datapoint I have, she got frustrated enough she wanted
to rent a tiny room up here to crash in.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:35:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Also! When the _bus drivers_ -- the people whose livelihood depends
on people not having cars -- tell you that you need to have a car,
maybe it's true.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:36:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Karl -- that las point is true, but you still need to remain sober
enough to drive....

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:36:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Drinking is sufficiently not compelling for me that I am totally
happy to use the "but I have a car" excuse.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:36:57 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

... I don't see that as being nearly the problem for geofft
that it might be for certain others.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:37:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Like, life doesn't become any more interesting after I've had
something to drink, it just becomes sleepier. "And if I wanted that I
could just stay up late"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:37:45 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That's just a question of liver training, and mixing your
alcohol with caffeine.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:37:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Also a question of who you drink with, and what you do when drinking.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:38:11 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

"Geoff, I'd like you to meet one of my best friends, Mr. Bushmills-and-Coke"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:38:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Anyway, the operative things that I wanted to attend in the city are
a church community group and a square dance group, which... if you're
drinking at either of those, you are doing something wrong

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:38:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahahah ====

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:40:04 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Like, life doesn't become any more interesting after I've had
>       something to drink

i used to say that. now what i will tell you it depends on drinking
what (like, in the tastings sense) or with who (in the stories they
tell sense)

but yes, drinking til tired is kinda useless

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 18:41:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

weirdos.   I guess I used to be like that.  Now, I drink to *stay up*


(I mean weirdos in the most affectionate way possible :))

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 19:26:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You found a square dance group that's good in SF?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun Mar 25 19:37:05 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Hey, Linux totally has an 'elevator' subsystem!

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 19:58:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

No, I haven't been to any.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 19:59:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Stanford Quads is on Sunday and the weekday ones are all in the city,
though, afaict

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 20:02:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 20:02:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think there's at least one A2 club in Palo Alto (not Quads).

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:41:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Meh, there are Plus calls I don't really know yet

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:46:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Phil'z has a captive portal for HTTP but lets all other protocols
through?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:46:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

... "powered by Meraki"?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:51:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Anyway, it looks like if I want to be in the city at, say 7:30, I
need to leave work by 5:30, which is basically impossible, both
because I'm not going to realistically get to work at 9 and because I
feel like work vaguely expects people to be there around 6ish more
than it expects people to be there before like noon. I guess I'm not
positive this is the case, and I could try pushing my schedule
earlier and seeing what happens.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:52:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

(I'm happy to get useful work done on the commute, but I think people
expect to see people in person closer to the end of the day)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:53:14 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I take it there are not stated core hours? I bet if you
went to your boss for guidance you would get support.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:53:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

My boss has mentioned "core hours" but did not in that sentence
mention what they _were_.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 22:54:01 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "With great power comes great responsibility and slow computing." --tlp <pquimby>

They're flexible!

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 23:07:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You could also do your dancing at Quads, which is possibly more
convenient. (Though maybe not feasible without a car? I don't know
Caltrain's schedule offhand.)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 23:08:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

It eats up an annoying chunk of my Sunday to trek out there and back
(Caltrain is an hour).

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 23:08:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I would totally do it if it were a weeknight.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Mar 25 23:09:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

And if Tech Squares is any indication, if it's not absolutely
convenient for me to square dance I won't, and if I'm not
consistently there, my enjoyment drops because I'm not in practice
enough

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 26 00:55:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I don't understand why, but it is so much harder to motivate myself
to clean dishes / do other housework when there's nobody else at home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 26 00:55:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Even if they're not doing housework.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.timidity
Time: Mon Mar 26 00:57:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Aww crap, JACK.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.timidity
Time: Mon Mar 26 00:57:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

"Something I know even less about than PulseAudio"

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Mar 26 01:02:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Guys, "burgled" is a perfectly good word. What's with "burglarized"?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Mar 26 01:02:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Maybe I should stop complaining and go back to programmerizing this
software.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.timidity
Time: Mon Mar 26 01:27:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I guess I could start by determining how PulseAudio works.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Mar 26 01:41:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

yaa i understand. sorry to not be around

Class: geofft Instance: debian.timidity
Time: Mon Mar 26 02:04:50 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You might even say ... you don't know JACK

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Mon Mar 26 12:16:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

//JUST CACHE LOCALLY JUST INCACE.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:03:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Of all the ridiculous things in our source tree.. we have a copy of
/usr/share/dict/words??

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:04:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

You people care about coffee more than I do, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:04:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, it could be worse.  You could have like coreutils or the
kernel or something.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:05:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

We're good about our GPL compliance. That said, a copy of vmplayer
wouldn't surprise me.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:05:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You live in SF, how have you not succumbed to coffee madness yet?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:05:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, this is the town that brought the world Bluebottle.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:06:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In fairness, that was actually Vienna

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:06:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh. I did not know that.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:06:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Bottle_Coffee_House

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:06:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh. Hmph.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:06:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I meant the *modern* coffee company and you knew it :)

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:07:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Their locations in new york apparently serve exactly one kind of
coffee, refuse to let you put milk in it, and brew each cup one at a
time in the world's most finicky fashion. And charge six bucks for the
privilege.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:07:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*heart* Blue Bottle.  "And now they're 3000 miles closer"

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:07:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am not exactly jumping up and down with impatience to try this out.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:08:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I've only ever gotten beans at the one in Brooklyn

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:08:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's one (two?) in Manhattan now, too.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:08:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

TIL

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:08:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I know, but I kind of love that story.

The Viennese Blue Bottle was supposedly responsible for starting the
European coffeeshop phenomenon and establishing the coffeeshop as a
place of intellectual discourse.

Given all of that, I kind of find the name of the SF company brilliant

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:09:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(which would nominally be good for me, if I were interested in their
coffee, since going from south brooklyn to north brooklyn is actually
more of a pain than going from either to manhattan)

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:09:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

but with Stumptown literally two blocks away from me at Café Pedlar, I
find it pretty hard to care :)

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:09:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Which is the most finicky fashion, do they use a siphon
thing?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:10:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I thought Blue Bottle was primarily pourover

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:10:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd have to dig up the Village Voice article about it, one sec

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:11:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/2012/02/blue_bottle_cof_1.php
and
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/2012/02/blue_bottle_par.php

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:11:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

As it happens, they have both pourover and siphon, with one being in a
semi-secret area of the store.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:12:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Right, the halogen lamp siphon thing. I've had it. I don't
see it as more finicky, but it is more visibly ridiculous.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:12:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I read this article and came away thinking "I want a cup of coffee,
not a piece of performance art."

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:12:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I have to admit that I've done a bad job of covering the SF coffee and
coffeeshop scene because I can make my own coffee

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:13:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

I long ago concluded that becoming picky about my coffee
would make my life worse not better.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:13:26 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

"Be picky about luxury consumables, not addictive drugs"

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:13:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not picky (I've drunk gas station coffee before and I'll do it
again, I mean), but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate especially
good coffee when I can find it.

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:20:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I wonder what a "fixie limo" would be

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:34:30 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

You could have a list of irregular English plurals; then you'd be
using Rails.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:35:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't get me started on ActiveSupport::Inflections::Inflector :(

Class: geofft Instance: forbes.q
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:58:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

[on Vupen and Chromium vulnerabilities]

“Vupen is the Snooki of this industry,” says Soghoian. “They seek out
publicity, and they don’t even realize that they lack all class.
They’re the Jersey Shore of the exploit trade.”

Class: geofft Instance: forbes.q
Time: Mon Mar 26 16:59:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

vupen is so obnoxious

Class: geofft Instance: supost
Time: Mon Mar 26 19:20:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

This guy needs a job in marketing:
http://www.supost.com/post/index/103286

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Mar 26 21:55:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Whoa, EarBucket is responsible for Tea Party Jesus? Awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 27 00:15:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Java is a dumb language.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 27 20:54:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

I want more compile-time static analysis :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 27 20:55:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

</davidben>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 27 21:01:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

clang-analyzer recently grew inter-procedural analysis!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Mar 27 21:02:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Thereby taking it from the realm of "obviously boring" to "maybe
worth something"

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:35:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Sigh

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:39:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I need a new zsig. <kyoki>

oof, you have to bike to caltrain, don't you?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:40:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Yeah. Hopefully it looks like the rain will let up around 9:45 or so,
which, uh, is when I waws planning to go home. But I kind of want food

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:41:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

And I still have not succeeded in the "cook lots of food and
tupperware it" plot

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:46:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Your inferior svn-based workflow fills me with rage <geofft>

Oh right, work has yogurt, which is kind of like food.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue Mar 27 22:46:36 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

like/+1/favorite/star/whatever

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:36:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Seriously, Oracle, die in a fire

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:37:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

"Ooh ooh, I know, we can make Java better if we acquire Sun and break
java.sun.com"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:37:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It wasn't really any better when it was Sun.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:41:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think I prefer API docs to ECONNREFUSED

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:41:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/<version>/docs/api/

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:42:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

ttants: you, a 302

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:42:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Also, that doesn't help for, uh, archives.java.sun.com 

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:42:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

and http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/<version>/api/ for EE. Though if you
need EE docs, God help you.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:43:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I still don't really understand what EE is

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:43:35 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think it's MOAR ABSTRACTION. Also something about servlets and
struts?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:43:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Oh, wait, does javax.servlet.* fall under the realm of EE?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:43:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's servlets and JDBC and EJB.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't ask about EJB.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

JavaBeans are just plain weird.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, no, javabeans are completely different from EJBs

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am making exactly 0% of this up.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

EJBs are just plain weird for entirely different and unrelated reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:51 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:44:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, seriously.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:46:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I gave up on understanding the brains of Java people when I came
across people using the phrase "Plain Old Java Objects (POJOS)"
completely straight-faced.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:47:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(This is as opposed to previous versions of the EJB spec, which
apparently required something like three interfaces and two
implementations and XML and nngh per object you wanted to in some way
expose. Which someone *also* thought was a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:47:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have permanent brain damage from having to learn all this in the mid
00s.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:55:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, basically, you want to aim to get as little of this on you as
humanly possible.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 00:55:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, it's nearly 22:00 your time, why are you still at work?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:00:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Ask him when he got to work"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:01:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"If I don't, I have plausible deniability"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:02:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I just left work!

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:03:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

> "Plain Old Java Objects (POJOS)"

I came across the phrase "Plain Old JavaBeans (POJOs)" recently.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:05:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go home and forget all of this. Until tomorrow, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:05:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Hopefully by the end of April I can get back to Windows drivers.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:07:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...when do you get to go back to working on something vaguely
resembling a sane development environment?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:12:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

"well, broder's leaving me wth this pile of vala and this other pile
of lua"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:12:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Those both sound like nontrivial improvements over piles of java and
windows kernel C.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:13:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

When did you get to work?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Wed Mar 28 01:15:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

1:30? I woke up entirely too early yesterday (like 6 or something) so
I slept until 10:30 today

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:37:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Ugh, Epiphany got renamed to "Web"?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:38:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Also these people need either a copyeditor or a thesaurus:

"Documents, the new application that allows you to easily browse,
search and organize documents, has received a major design refresh.
The result is a fresher, cleaner application. The new version comes
with a refreshed interface, the ability to create collections of
documents and support for printing."

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:39:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Ducati, an H&K and a Gund. <eichin>

freshity fresh fresh!

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:39:29 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:40:34 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Nobody ever listens to poor Zathras." --Zathras <pquimby>

What does that mean? 

#include <febreeze.h>

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:53:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I see you searchin' round Hesiod with the data I love and I'm like,
ldap!

I guess the change in the schema just wasn't enough, so I'm like,
ldap, and ldap-too!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:54:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh my god geoff

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:54:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

can we make an album featuring songs like this, and my "back that NAS
up"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:55:38 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: "Do you want it to work?" -phonescreen candidate <paigep>

baby got backup?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:55:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>"back that NAS up"
I'm intrigued and wish to subscribe to your newsletter

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:57:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(fine hunk of data won't you back that NAS up/ rolling checksums help
you back that NAS up/Andrew Tridgell says you back that NAS up.. &c)

[i have lyrics somewhere]

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 12:58:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i like that you can leave in the line 
"Ho, who is you playing with, back that NAS up"  basically the same
and I still laugh.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:02:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:07:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I really should quit this habit of being places 5 minutes after I
need to be there

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:08:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

also I should get in the habit of taking a shower in the evening,
which I guess is blocking on haircut

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:09:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Clearly you need Trac for your life

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:10:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

geofft made me one of those when I was moving!

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:10:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Did you end up using this?

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:11:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

Not for life.

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:11:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: meep. <lizdenys>

I have a hiveminder + todo.pl + cron + zephyr solution

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:36:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

//debug log for supper class

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:36:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Where else should the class send comments created during dinnertime?

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Wed Mar 28 13:37:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

> supper class

Don't they have those at charm school?

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:01:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

BART person tried to convince me to work there

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:02:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

YKYWT

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:04:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

He says they have folks who do other random things like DJ or fish or
whatnot, and you start out working part-time but you get benefits so
it makes sense for such people

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:05:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Some of the logistics problems are vaguely interesting from a CS
standpoint.

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:06:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

This is as a station agent, not a logistics person.

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:06:21 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(With transit systems in general, I dunno about BART)

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:06:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"oh"

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:06:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

(He noticed me giving directions to someone and was like "ever
thought about being a station agent" and started talking about it)

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:07:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

You know, once I'm bored with industry, if I don't feel like going to
grad school I'm strongly tempted to go work at a cafe or something

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:08:21 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Wait, I thought when you were done with MokaFive, you were moving to
Stripe."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Mar 28 14:14:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

God-Emperor of Zune

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Wed Mar 28 16:10:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

/**
 * A simple one THREAD always running on the BACK & ACCEPT only ONE REQUEST AT THE TIME.
 * Instance only one of the OBJECT like this!

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Wed Mar 28 16:10:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I actually think I would understand this code better if it did not
have any comments

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Wed Mar 28 17:04:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

axs / broder / axs  2012-03-28 14:03  (Alessondra Springmann)
    I have smart friends.  Surely someone can solve the "what keyboard
    should I use?" problem.
jhurwitz / status / afarrell  2012-03-28 14:03  (Andrew Farrell)
    *all* of them?

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Mar 28 19:02:46 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... did we just lose two DNS servers?

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Mar 28 19:03:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"host linerva 18.72.0.3" is hanging for me

Class: geofft Instance: g+.q
Time: Wed Mar 28 20:41:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

[re Linus complaining about FSF's copyright assignment policy for
glibc]

David Miller - Without going into specifics, the FSF is looking into
ways to accommodate this kind of situation, for all projects.
Yesterday 3:38 PM   

David Miller - This is why I usually don't say anything about plans
not public yet... Thanks for reminding me to stay completely silent
in the future.
Yesterday 6:35 PM   

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Mar 28 21:46:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

.... wait, someone posted a patchset for the Dreamcast memory card
filesystem?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Mar 28 21:47:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 28 21:53:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Windows biarch is _really_ on crack

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Wed Mar 28 21:54:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node? wat

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:33:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

.... there were rumors in 2007 that Apple was planning to switch to
Linux or better yet Solaris as soon as their Mach guy left the company?

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:34:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

That is the dumbest rumor

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:35:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

solaris might have made sense in the heady days of sun-apple
cooperation.
in the oracle era? no

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Why in the Sun era and not in the Oracle era?

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:37:06 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

There were persistent rumors that one company was going
to buy the other.  "I am sad that Apple did not buy Sun"

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:37:35 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(The rumors went both ways depending on who was doing
well at the time)

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:38:39 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the lack of zfs in macos certainly suggests the apple/oracle
relationship wouldn't be any good for such

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:38:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Man, Apple buying Sun would have been awesome

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:39:31 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: "Do you want it to work?" -phonescreen candidate <paigep>

And then they could name it Snapple

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:39:59 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: 'The Air Force can deliver anything.' -- Curtis LeMay, when asked if he could haul supplies to Berlin. <eichin>

"their Mach guy" doesn't apple have basically *all*
of the Mach guys, at least the still active ones?

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:40:06 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: "Do you want it to work?" -phonescreen candidate <paigep>

(I've had portmanteu names on the mind.  There are posters for Social
Media Hack Day in the elevators, and I keep trying to make that into
Shack Day, or possibly Smack Day)

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:40:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

OK, sure.  It's not like Apple and Oracle weren't close, though. 
Larry considered Steve to be his best friend.

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:52:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ISTR that a recent article about Linus Torvalds mentions Linus talking
about Steve Jobs offering him a job under the condition that Linus were to
stop Linux development.

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 12:54:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Also, Sun Fire hardware looks remarkably like what Xserve really wanted to be
before Apple axed Xserve and started recommending using Mac Minis and Pros
as servers.)

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Thu Mar 29 13:07:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Hm, I just registered root@ldpreload.com as a Google account and
added it to my phone. Is there a way to revoke the ability
geoffreyerffoeg@gmail.com has to install apps remotely, unlock the
phone, etc. but still keep it as an account for gtalk etc.?

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Thu Mar 29 13:07:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I guess I will not be upset if I can't use gtalk.

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Thu Mar 29 13:08:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

AIUI, any Google account on the phone can be used to install apps

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Thu Mar 29 13:45:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Oh, I see, it won't let me remove my Gmail account without a factory
reset.

Class: geofft Instance: android
Time: Thu Mar 29 13:46:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Which I guess is easy; I just need to bother with SSH rekeying, and
there's really no other state on here

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:28:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

! They have dnssec now

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:29:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I still can't quite figure out how to set it up.

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:29:09 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Do they still bill in Euros?"

Class: geofft Instance: gandi
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:30:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

They let you pick your local currency. Their payment processor is
still creditmutuel.fr though

Class: geofft Instance: gandi.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:32:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I like how 20% of the entries in sipb-dns' config are secondaries of
ns0.tribbl.es

Class: geofft Instance: gandi.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 14:32:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

:-P

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:00:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Okay I cannot stop laughing at this picture:
http://static.fsf.org/nosvn/libreplanet/2012/awards/matz.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:00:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

rms looks like he's on drugs^WHIGH ON FREEEEEDOM

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:01:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:01:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That is amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:01:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Haha, I didn't even notice that the button said "Impeach God"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:02:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Wait, Matz is Mormon?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:02:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I can see the eyes of satan staring back at me?  Twice over?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:02:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Extra hilarious!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:02:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

That is amazing

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:08:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Of course, Ruby is now licensed under some variant of BSD license
rather than GPL...

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:09:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

The FSF Award for the Advancement of Free Software has the
honorary-doctorate property in that it brings prestige to the giver,
not the recipient, so they're kind of bound to ignore such things.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:11:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Also one day when I'm bored I'll flame rms on csail-related for
calling himself "Dr" at a school that doesn't believe in honorary
doctorates

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:11:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

But I have thankfully failed to be sufficiently bored.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:12:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

"and flaming him for being technically wrong is more fun anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:13:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Actually, if you talk to glyph...

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

glyph?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:14:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Nick Walker had some rather worrying rms stories back when I knew him
at SRC.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:16:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

glasgall you should sub to csail-related

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:16:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

no I shouldn't, I don't need a doctor to start yelling at me about
blood pressure.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:17:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

and I already have an occasional nasty eye twitch

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:17:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

A person who founded the Twisted project

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:17:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

https://lists.csail.mit.edu/pipermail/csail-related/2012-March/007390.html

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:18:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hm, come to think of it, I wonder if nick is on zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:48:38 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Oh man, does anyone remember MkLinux???

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:49:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I think I even used it for a bit?

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:49:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

You betcha. I never used it, but I had to avoid it when installing
Linux on my PowerPC Mac (:

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:50:09 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

how about maconlinux (MoL)?

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:50:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh no, I think I managed to avoid using it

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:56:17 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't understand the advantage of running a monolithic kernel on top
of a microkernel (which is what both MkLinux and OS X are)

Class: geofft Instance: apple
Time: Thu Mar 29 15:57:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Andrew Tanenbaum doesn't hate you, but your kernel also actually works.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:03:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Whoa, USB monitoring?

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:04:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

ISTR it's had that for a while. I've never used it, but it sounds
awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:04:25 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

==

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:04:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

It's ... doing things when I hit keys. I'm not convinced it's doing
anything useful

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:04:51 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

We should add a wireshark decoder for Mosh!

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:05:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I love that tcpdump knows how to decode Zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:05:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

You go do that.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark.d
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:05:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Which ... makes a certain kind of perfect sense, but is also hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:06:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

▶ UDP
▶ Mosh
  ▶ Something in OCB that we can't decrypt

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:06:41 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Presumably you would feed the session key to Wireshark (I think I've
seen this for other protocols)

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:08:37 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Right, you can give it an SSL private key to decode SSL traffic.
"What could go wrong?"

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:12:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

why are you promiscuous, I told you not to be promiscuous

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:12:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, you know.  Kids these days

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 16:13:30 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

As soon as you give them anti-virus software, these modern
computers are just going to be promiscuous, that's how it
is.

Class: geofft Instance: wireshark
Time: Thu Mar 29 17:09:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

keegan: Only if you disable Diffie-Helman modes

Class: geofft Instance: ssl
Time: Thu Mar 29 17:39:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

http://www.igtf.net/
"this is what happens when you fail to design a useful PKI"

Class: geofft Instance: ssl
Time: Thu Mar 29 17:39:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I guess
http://bugs.debian.org/666229
might be a better overview

Class: geofft Instance: msdn.q
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:01:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

"An example is network attached storage (NAS) that you carry with you."

Class: geofft Instance: msdn.q
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:01:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

What

Class: geofft Instance: msdn.q
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:01:36 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

"your laptop"

Class: geofft Instance: msdn.q
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:01:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Is that a NAS in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:09:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Daemon Thread
Demon Thread

Class: geofft Instance: msdn.q
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:13:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

An example of what?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:21:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

I miss gdb :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:21:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

(The debugger, although I guess I miss Greg Brockman too?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:21:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Eclipse involves, like, clicking things

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:28:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

What language?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:35:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

Java

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:35:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

There's no JDWP-to-gdbstub bridge. And it sounds incredibly
complicated to write anyway

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:36:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

This randomized algorithm goes to 11.

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:36:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

User-Agent strings

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:37:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

i,i "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.21 (KHTML, like
Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1042.0 Safari/535.21"

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:37:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

There are, like, six browsers in that string

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:37:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am laughing out loud, here in the Media Lab 5th floor lounge

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:38:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The modern Firefox user-agent is actually borderline reasonable:

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/11.0

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:38:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"Only 3 browsers"

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:39:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

IE 10: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/6.0)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:41:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

http://webaim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:41:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

er, i-mix

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:44:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"And thus Chrome used WebKit, and pretended to be Safari, and WebKit
pretended to be KHTML, and KHTML pretended to be Gecko, and all
browsers pretended to be Mozilla"

Class: geofft Instance: still-hilarious
Time: Thu Mar 29 18:54:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I had *NO IDEA* user agent strings had gotten that long/absurd.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:09:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Ty Coon, President of Vice <geofft>

... GSSAPI?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:38:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Okay, wtf, what is it about designing a network filesystem protocol
that makes everyone stupid

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:39:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(having recently looked at SMB, DAV, NFS, and 9p, and having
attempted to look at AFS)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:39:45 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

No one ever does it three times.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:40:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't look at SMB.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:40:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

It's too late for me, Adam. Save yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:40:23 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(or if they do it never catches on; DFS may have been a
third system)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:40:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

If you're thinking about the same DFS I'm thinking of, it's a fairly
straightforward extension to SMB.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:40:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Certainly more straightforward than like... all the other extensions
to SMB.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:41:11 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'm not thinking about the microsoft one.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:41:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCE_Distributed_File_System

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:41:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's much much too late to save me.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:42:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh, is DCE/DFS different from DFS?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:42:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I may have mentioned that I wrote a plugin for Samba a few jobs ago.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 19:43:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

kcr: So the other property of networked filesystems is they all seem
to be built on top of crappy systems.

Class: geofft Instance: mitbay
Time: Thu Mar 29 20:45:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Hm, Logs flash mobs at Oracle and Stanford today

Class: geofft Instance: mitbay
Time: Thu Mar 29 20:45:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Like, MIT Logarythms?

Class: geofft Instance: mitbay
Time: Thu Mar 29 20:45:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: mitbay
Time: Thu Mar 29 20:46:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Sadly I'm slightly too hosed to go

Class: geofft Instance: mitbay
Time: Thu Mar 29 20:46:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"just like their actual concerts"

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:00:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Lol xenix

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:00:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Seriously, get out of there. You have no idea of the forces you are
tampering with here.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:01:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The standard book on SMB is studded with reminders that it's not your
fault and chapters with titles like "Where It All Went Wrong"

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:01:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

SMB lies dreaming in its house in NetBIOS.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:03:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

We decided we could deploy this product faster with SMB and then
write our own networked filesystem later

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:03:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

It sounded like a good idea at the time, I swear

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 21:04:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sure, you can *use* it. But your attempts to *understand* it will end
in madness.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:20:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh man I totally forgot about REXX!

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:26:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Have you read "Implementing CIFS" yet?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:27:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://www.ubiqx.org/cifs/ if not.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:28:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I've seen it

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:29:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I'm currently staring at the SNIA not-spec because I don't really
need to implement it, just figure out what it's doing

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:42:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Really guys? Your MAC is MD5(key + data)?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Thu Mar 29 23:43:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I guess these are the same guys who came up with LM hashes, so
"learn2crypto" is a known bug

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Fri Mar 30 00:29:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Well, that was a strange Tech Advance News

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Fri Mar 30 00:30:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Didn't you get the memo? We've switched to Tech Laggard News.

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Fri Mar 30 00:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What TAN are you referring to here?

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Fri Mar 30 00:32:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

jhawk's heavy cream curdled.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 00:33:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

So, uh, what happens if you set up a DFS redirect loop?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:11:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Haha, just ran into Edan

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:11:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Edan?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:11:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

ambition

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:12:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh him.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:12:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

The Logs are apparently at Dropbox tomorrow. I don't think I properly
realized before how ridiculously easy finding a cappella gigs in the
Bay Area would be

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:15:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I should totally convince xprod to head out here for spring break
next year

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:25:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

*sigh* Maybe I should find some Java textbooks

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:25:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

== except s/Java/C++/.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:26:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

C++ is reasonably self-contained. I don't understand, like,
synchronized vs. the other built-in (and not built-in?) concurrency
options available to me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 02:27:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Like, do I want to switch to reader/writer locks? How do I even
profile for whether that's productive?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Mar 30 03:14:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:40:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I don't understand why people complain about Gmail and keep using it.
I guess I don't actually have a reasonable alternative to recommend,
given that I'm still on MIT IMAP

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:41:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, it's the worst possible email solution, except for all the
others.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:41:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Because setting up my own IMAP server, hosted in colo which I want a
large number of 9s of reliability from, is harder than whining.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:41:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Someone should come up with an automatic cloud-storing replicating
email server as an AMI or somesuch

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:41:50 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

... No it's not, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:42:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Really?  Whining about gmail is really easy.  I can do it right now
even.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:42:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I mean, I'm exaggerating. But if you don't want to run your own mail,
I don't know of a better solution.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:45:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Even if you want to run your own mail, it's not clear it's easy to.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:45:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I would totally read a karl writeup on how to run my own mail
correctly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:46:00 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

No, it is.

agh, written communication, *flashes back to having a semester writing
about abortion*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:46:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I don't have non-MIT colo and don't really want to pay like
$200/month for email. I also don't want to be paged when one of my
email servers goes down, and therefore want replication/failover

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:46:12 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(brb, -> work)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:46:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Technically speaking, you don't have MIT colo either...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:46:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Well, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:47:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I could, undoubtedly, find a living group to stick a machine and have it sit there for ten years. I don't think that scales

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:48:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Weapons-Grade Alcoholic Beverages) <eichin>

I started using fastmail years ago to cover a network
transition... and kept using it, since it actually worked :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:49:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Anyway, despite wanting to put the effort into setting it up, and
being willing to deal with outages, getting enough redundant colo
that has competent remote management is stupidly expensive, and even
so there's no software out-of-the-box that helps. (see the
questioning on -c sipb / sipb@ over winter break)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:49:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, one of the recommendations from that conversation was pobox.com

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:50:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I guess my registrar also does mail hosting

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:50:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

So maybe secretly there are tons of good alternatives to Gmail, they
just suck at advertising.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:50:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Or we could just make sipb-mail a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:51:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Well, they won't give you gmail's webui and search.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:51:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Which, while not optimal, are actually pretty good for most people.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:53:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

sipb-mail means as much effort as personal colo, plus caring about
reliability even more, plus caring about privacy

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:55:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also to be clear I'm not picking on Liz, someone at work was
expressing displeasure at Google "reading" her mail and giving her
contextual ads

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:56:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

We've clearly gotten to the point where people want to use something
else, but they don't.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:56:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

Wait, regardless, I can't pick an alternative for this address.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:56:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Why? If it's GAFYD for lizdenys.com it's easy to fix

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:57:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

It's not.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:57:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

It's my WORK account.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:57:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

I never claimed this to be my personal account.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:57:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

If it's @gmail.com it's easy to forward (geoffreyerffoeg@gmail.com
forwards everything to MIT after I missed one too many emails from
people who think I use Google services)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:58:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

If it's work you have a supporrt contract, right?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:58:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

I also *cannot* forward my work email.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:58:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

THat would be in so many violations of so many SEC rules.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:58:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Like you can tell your IT person "my mail sucks, make Gmail fix it"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:58:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

they've also noticed it and i assume reported it

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:59:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Convince them to switch to Exchange

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 12:59:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Because, like, how is sending your email to Gmail not in violation of
so many SEC rules?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:00:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

The real tl;dr is that you either get shitty email these days (because
you have to do too much work for somethign that you really need or
because it actualyl just sucks) or you use gmail and have google snoop
more on your life in totally unsavory ways.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:01:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also can't you offlineimap your mail to your work desktop and point
your mail client at that?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:01:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

geofft: It's not worth my time to explain, but if I reply with a
personal address or something else that isn't going to hit our special
sauce archiver we can get in a lot of bullshit trouble. I don't actually
know how our special sauce archiver works, but have been told by people
I trust that "no really, it's just easier to use the damn gmail"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:02:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

That's a function of SMTP server, not email address, right? I realize
alpine doesn't let you do anything useful

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:02:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also it is totally worth your time to stop using Google services.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:03:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

See "It's not worth my time to explain"

but it is fully checked and not screwed up at this point to just work
through gmail because well, getting accounting to switch off that would
be hard

And it's *very redundant*

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:03:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

It's not just smtp things

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 13:04:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

but in general, yes, i think it is totally worth my time to not use
google anything

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:18:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I think dovecot + dsync is the answer. We can talk about that later.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:20:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I almost got bitten hard by running my own spam filter, and would have,
if I hadn't happened to look in the spam filter at the rigth time; I
still don't know that it didn't lose other e-mail I cared about. That's
the biggest demotivator for me to running my own mail server.

Also all of the non-Gmail options for server-side filters are a
maintenance pain

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:54:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Food trucks! <3 Fridays

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:54:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We have those 5 days a week.  You should have stayed here and worked
for IS&T

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:54:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ooh, wait, what food trucks do we get today?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:55:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

The Vietnamese and Peruvian ones

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:55:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm. I don't think I've had the Peruvian one. Any good?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:55:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(littlegreencyclo and Sanguchon)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 14:56:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I don't think I've tried it. I'm going for the pork belly, pork roll,
pâté, and shredded pork banh mi.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:00:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Hm, this sandwich has a lot of pork in it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:01:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's a really cheap joke about Congress in here that I'm not going
to make because it's also stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:02:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://exm.nr/H4nCNN

Class: geofft Instance: bay-area
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:05:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

There was a billboard on the highway advertising Riak. This is a
strange place.

Class: geofft Instance: bay-area
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:06:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Huh, the guys that make Riak are in Central?

Class: geofft Instance: bay-area
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:07:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Liquidate real estate! <ctl>

It's an akamai spinoff

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:31:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

https://lwn.net/Articles/489649/

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:31:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

owwww

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Oh no, not that stupid thing of whether -- is the actual comment
marker. I'm not sure what's the current state of things there, but
Firefox is almost certainly correct according to the spec. If Acid2
hadn't tried to push the never-implemented HTML4 version, we would
never have had this nonsense.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:35:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

i,i HTMLpurifier

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:35:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The thingy works in chrome too, fwiw.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:36:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, parsing and regenerating is always the right answer (and IIRC
what HTML Purifier does) for exactly this reason

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:37:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

glasgall: Right. I would be shocked if both Firefox and Chrome
implemented the HTML5 parser wrong on something with such a history
as comment parsing.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:37:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(s/both/either/ really)

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:37:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, HTMLpurifier works that way. It's pretty much the only correct
way to do XSS filtering.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:39:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

s/XSS//. "I hear I'm parsing and regenerating X protocol interactions"

I believe slimit does the same thing for JS, which we used for a
6.858 lab, but I'm not sure we explicitly drilled into students'
heads why this is a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:39:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

True. It is at least /plausible/ that you can get away with another
approach if your target language is less of a hellhole than HTML, but
you'll almost certainly lose eventually.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:40:55 2012 Host: c-98-250-75-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net
From: 5 7 37 79 83 157 <cesium>

It's just Postel's law, right?

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:41:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Postel's law isn't really clear on what to do if you're a proxy or
filter.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:41:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Not obviously?

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:41:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I like these calm little moments before the storm.  It reminds me of... Beethoven. <eichin>

grr, the first comment is also wrong, <-- is not a
comment start.  < starts an element, -- foo -- are comments *within*
an element.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:42:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(Someone should write a HotSec paper on the topic)

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:44:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

-- is a comment delimiter in SGML, not HTML. You will cause XSS
everywhere if you write your santizer assuming -- delimits comments.

http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1137799947&count=1

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:45:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"SGML: too G, not S enough"

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:46:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:48:29 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: free as in - oh shiny thing <eichin>

ah, for years html actually followed sgml.  (during
that time many implementers fucked it up in various creative ways.)  I
hadn't realized that html5 had given up on that, and also gone and
outright specified a state machine

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:49:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, it now specifies more-or-less the IE6 parser because everyone
had been trying to reverse-engineer it anyway. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:52:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Patented encryption" is never a good sign

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:52:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

i,i mosh

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:52:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A yellow tribble covered in whipped cream logs in to an ia64 laptop running HP VMS <eichin>

(the lwn comment is wrong the *other* way, then:
if I'm reading 12.2.4.50 correctly, you need the entire --> to end the
comment; after -- if you see anything else, you treat it as part of
the comment token)

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:57:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Hrm, my read is that <!--> is actually a parse error, but the error
handling is to treat that as the comment. ! in "tag open state" goes
to "markup declaration open state". From there, -- gives you "comment
start state" (12.2.4.46). And then > gives you:

  Parse error. Switch to the data state. Emit the comment token.

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Fri Mar 30 15:59:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(On parse error, you supposed to either follow the spec'd error
handling or abort on the first one.)

Class: geofft Instance: broder.q
Time: Fri Mar 30 16:40:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"death by a couple dozen cuts"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:14:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Never work for a company bureaucratic enough that you're primarily
talking to recruiters instead of your potential boss" (or worse,
where you don't know who your potential boss would be) sounds like a
good rule

Class: geofft Instance: smb.ttants?
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:19:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

WINS
LOSES

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:20:50 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: a little mouse, with gloves and a parka on, just waiting for the light to go out <eichin>

google used to outsource a lot of recruiting, which
produced some major embarassments.  I think they've fixed that, but
they're still not what you'd call "good at it"...

Class: geofft Instance: smb.ttants?
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:26:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Those are the same.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:32:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

hm, I could, like, actually learn Latin

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:32:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "But... fire... what more do you need?" - wings <pbaranay>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:32:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

... why not?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:32:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I don't think you could pay me enough to make out with rms" - bralower <pbaranay>

The opportunity cost of learning, e.g. Italian?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:32:56 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

itym Cur?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:33:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I don't really care to know Italian.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:34:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also I'm sure I can just talk at them in Latin and complain about
"pueri hoc dies" while shaking a cane.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:36:02 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: um.. um.. um.. <aatharuv>

HAHA

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:38:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am pretty sure "pueri hoc dies" is not actually what you wanted to
say there.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:40:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"iuvenes hodiērum", maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:40:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

i,i "Romanes eunt domus"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:41:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I absolutely *howled* with laughter after watching that scene after my
first semester of Latin.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:41:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

One of my latin teachers actually took a class to show us that scene.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:41:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I have a year of Latin under my belt. So far, the only thing it's
been good for is helping prevent my old middle and highschool Spanish
from fading completely)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:42:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is certainly a grammar lesson you won't forget in a hurry.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:45:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Iuvenes hodierum" sounds believable, but doesn't really have the
same connotation of being disgusted at these days as well as at the kids

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:46:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I dunno, it sounds right to me.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:46:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also it sounds like "Kids of the day" like "soup of the day" or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:47:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

i,i "Soups these days."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:47:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

They don't even know how to cook them so the onions fall apart.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:53:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

There's a good reason I'm doing import java.util.This; import
java.util.That; import java.util.TheOther; instead of just
java.util.*, right?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:53:56 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, so you don't get clobbering.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:54:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"eclipse whines at you if you do .*"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:54:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"well I'm not using eclipse"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:54:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What _are_ you using? Java in anything but Eclipse is terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:54:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

vim

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:55:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Enjoy your pain and suffering.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:55:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Don't worry, I'm enjoying it a lot

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:55:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(I'm using eclipse for its debugger capabilities)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:55:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You know Eclipse has Emacs and vim keybindings, right?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:55:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Does :q work?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:56:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

or :%s, or Ctrl-Z?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:56:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Maybe? I don't remember what C-x C-c did 

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:56:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

or :r !?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Mar 30 17:56:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Stop asking me and read http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/home/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar 30 18:04:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/wYqtu.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Mar 30 18:05:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There are at least 3 things wrong here.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Mar 30 18:12:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

ConcurrentHashMap
MaherShalalHashBaz

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:09:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Sigh, iOS keeps autocorrecting "tyger" to "tiger"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:10:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

#williamblakeproblems

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:13:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "Texts of Innocence and Experience"

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:48:31 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Does https://linerva.mit.edu/ want to run mosh-over-websockets or
something? (Does that even make sense?)

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:49:01 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: ) :: ( <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Sure, just compile mosh-client with Emscripten...

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:50:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Websockets are a bad match because they imply streaming
characteristics, no?

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:50:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Actually, websockets is wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:50:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

You may actually *want* XHR longpolls.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:51:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: I don't know about shellinabox, but ajaxterm already uses a
model very similar to mosh - the server renders the whole screen and
sends diffs to the client, and the client can reconnect whenever. The
only thing it's missing is the predictive local echo.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:52:27 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

You want some long polls, but if you're an MIT researcher
you probably want to develop a websockets replacement that
really has the semantics you want.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:57:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

i,i socket(PF_WEB, SOCK_DGRAM, 0)

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 19:59:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

setsockopt(sock, SO_WEB_SCALE)

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Fri Mar 30 20:01:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

http://code.google.com/chrome/extensions/trunk/experimental.socket.html

This exists, but I haven't the slightest clue if it's even
implemented or anything.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 20:04:43 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"You are viewing extension docs in chrome via the 'file:' scheme: are
you expecting to see local changes when you refresh? You'll need run
chrome with --allow-file-access-from-files."
wat

Class: geofft Instance: mosh.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 20:05:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Hahaha.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 20:05:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I am moderately annoyed that you can't upload files to file:/// URLs.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh.d
Time: Fri Mar 30 20:05:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(via FileReader and friends)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:12:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Seriously, there are a HUNDRED AND SIX open tickets assigned to ebroder?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:13:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I thought there'd be, like, two, and I could reassign them to myself
and not worry about it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:13:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Say that louder and they'll be magically reassigned to you.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:13:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, there's totally a button here to reassign them all, but I don't
really want them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:16:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also, entirely too many of these tickets are... things that we should
do in Debathena and I determined were no fun and didn't work on

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:17:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh goodie. "Evan, this is a good small enhancement for the new guy to
get started."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:18:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

8 weeks ago

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:19:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is the new guy you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:19:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

That is what it sounds like.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:20:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Nah, getting familiar with the samba source is a much better small
enhancement for the new guy to get started with.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:20:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

srsly

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:21:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

... crap, forgot some config settings, I should go commit those

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:21:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Still terrified we're shipping Tuesday (?) to actual customers in
networking configs I've never heard of and expecting this to work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:24:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You guys already had customers, right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:24:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

You use this phrase. "Expecting this to work".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:24:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

We have plenty of customers, we're just launching a new product

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:32:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Actually, lazyzephyr, any of you work somewhere with SMB servers
whose names don't resolve in your local DNS (and so you rely on
WINS/NBNS)? I'm trying to determine if I can safely default WINS/NBNS
to off

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:40:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I thought WINS was a Windows NT thing. Any Active Directory domain is
going to have DNS, no?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:42:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244380 implies maybe maybe not. Also,
not everyone uses AD.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:44:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You can safely default WINS/NBNS to off in a corporate environment.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:46:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What are you trying to do to Samba?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:47:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"deploy it"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:47:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

geofft / smb / geofft  2012-03-29 18:03  (PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0)
    We decided we could deploy this product faster with SMB and then
    write our own networked filesystem later
geofft / smb / geofft  2012-03-29 18:03  (PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0)
    It sounded like a good idea at the time, I swear

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:48:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I meant a little more specifically. I've done horrible things to Samba
before myself, so I may be of some small help.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:51:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Nothing particularly complicated, just accessing whatever files are
on customers' existing file shares

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:53:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

>Actually, lazyzephyr, any of you work somewhere with SMB servers
>whose names don't resolve in your local DNS (and so you rely on
>WINS/NBNS)? I'm trying to determine if I can safely default WINS/NBNS
>to off

All the damn time.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:53:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(i complain about this, but i've seen it more than once)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:53:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"access it as [RANDOM WORD]"

  but that's not in DNS

huh?

  *facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:54:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

mDNS works surprisingly well in this case.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:54:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(if you install Apple's Bonjour for Windows thing)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 21:55:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Hm. What's the context here? Some corporate network?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:33:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

wrgh, why is smbclient crashing

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:38:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It...shouldn't be doing that.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:39:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

In fairness I'm trying to connect to \\server\

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

$ strace smbclient -Uguest '\\share\'
...
write(4, "Enter guest's password: ", 24Enter guest's password: ) = 24
read(4, "\n", 1)                        = 1
ioctl(4, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon -echo ...}) = 0
ioctl(4, SNDCTL_TMR_START or TCSETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
ioctl(4, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
write(4, "\n", 1
)                       = 1
close(4)                                = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {SIG_DFL, [INT], SA_RESTORER|SA_RESTART, 0x7f268d52ad80}, {0x7f268fcbf280, [INT], SA_RESTORER|SA_RESTART, 0x7f268d52ad80}, 8) = 0
exit_group(1)                           = ?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(same thing against an authenticated share)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Right, that's not a share.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

It is doing a 'return 1' of some sort, not a crash. But it's still
suboptimal

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You have to use smbclient -L \\server\ if you want to list shares.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:40:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also it should let me enumerate the shares, right? (There's some
funky SMB protocol syntax for this involving IPC$, but at least in
Windows that's not user-visible)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:41:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, with -L.

Class: geofft Instance: else.i,i
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:41:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Grumpon

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:42:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah. I'm annoyed you can't just treat it as a directory

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:42:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Deep within the fundamental heart of the universe, there is a reason.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:42:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(It probably has to do with LAN Manager 1.0)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:42:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Hey, that's newer than my zsig"

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:43:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also, i,i A:

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:44:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Wireshark protocol decoder for SMB is very good, incidentally.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:44:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, thank your lucky stars that NBT is pretty much dead.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:44:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, I have wireshark on my other monitor :)

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:45:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I think I actually want a third monitor so I can have wireshark in
one, eclipse in another, and my app in the third

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:45:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That's not at all unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:45:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You might want a fourth for the CIFS book, actually. Or a paper copy.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:46:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I have my personal laptop open to the SNIA TR, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:46:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Or that.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:46:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

And I ... have an old cardboard box from adehnert behind my monitor
to prop my laptop above my monitor

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:46:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have to admit that the biggest thing I remember from the Samba
codebase proper was talloc and how well it worked.

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:47:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hrm?

Class: geofft Instance: smb
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:47:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://talloc.samba.org/talloc/doc/html/index.html. Samba uses it
extensively.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:49:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Argh, I keep getting new machines and forgetting to set HashKnownHosts no

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:50:49 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Why do you prefer unhashed?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:50:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

so I can read them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:51:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

So I can do things like "this machine has gotten another name, I'd
like to edit known_hosts instead of blindly trusting the machine"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 22:59:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"so ssh tab completion works"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:00:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It wouldn't be a bad idea if ssh would just scan the whole known_hosts
file and say "this key looks like the machine 'linerva'. Accept it for
'slowlaris'?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:01:00 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

But it can't say "linerva", just "one you already know"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:01:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

If HashKnownHosts is on

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:13:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh right, from elsewhere, I should book tickets.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:13:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

How many days do I want to spend in Boston? I'm kind of inclined to
do two business days instead of one

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:14:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Also anyone have a couch or something for a few nights around the 28th?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:14:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"ET has beds."

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:14:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

of April?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:15:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:17:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

I have an air mattress, though you may fare better with ET's beds

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:20:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I totally wouldn't mind ET if Alex is serious about that option

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:24:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I...actually will have a couch by then. Probably.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:25:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

On the other hand, I also haven't actually met you.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:25:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

I assume Alex is serious.  ET does generally have guest beds
available.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:26:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

Wait, you two haven't met through Liz or something?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:26:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, my weekend visits to Boston never lined up right with
un-hosedness for most of you lot.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:26:49 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Uh, can't you ssh-keygen -l -f ~/.ssh/known_hosts linerva ?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:27:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

"Yes, but then you have to remember how ssh-keygen works"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:27:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Also, that command line doesn't work as typed"

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:27:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

And I have failed to visit NY

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:27:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is indeed a failing.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:27:48 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(-F linerva would, though)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:28:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, I'm using ssh-keygen -F linerva (that suffices, no other
options) to figure out which lines to unhash

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:28:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

hmm.  Have we met?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:28:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Maybe I should put a NY leg in this trip, although I'm not sure I
have enough time in Boston as it is. :(

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:29:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I honestly don't know.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:29:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

(I think so, but I can't remember exactly.  Googling your G+ profile,
your face looks familiar)

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:29:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I hunted with Random this year and last.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:30:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

and I've been to parties with MIT people in Cambridge and Somerville
now and then

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:31:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I /am/ in town until at least Monday afternoon, so people who do want
to meet me should tell me so. But right now, I am exhausted from a day
of pounding pavement hunting apartments and going
to bed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:31:44 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Anyway, ssh-keygen is totally more scrutable than, say, gpg, right?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:32:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My weekend is basically entirely committed to running a printing
press.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:36:54 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Do two business days - you'll want to recover from travel

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:37:00 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Also we have space at ASEC

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:38:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

You're welcome to crash at my apartment. 12 minute walk to W20.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:39:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I believe that my apartment is strictly less useful than dwilson's
apartment, given that I do not have an air mattress.

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:39:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Given that it's the same apartment?"

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:40:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Yes, that."

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:46:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I do have an air mattress

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:47:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(as well as various other comfy things to sleep on)

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:47:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

OK, thanks (and thanks folks in personals), means that I can go ahead
and book something and poke one of y'all

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:57:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oops, wanted to get a haircut today

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:57:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How long is this trip?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:59:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

~4 nights?

Class: geofft Instance: bos
Time: Fri Mar 30 23:59:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

3-4, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Apr  1 10:49:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.project/20102
++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Apr  1 10:51:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

...

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Apr  2 14:16:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Whoa, x32 got merged?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Apr  2 14:17:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Welcome to yesterday in zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Apr  2 14:19:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah, I didn't really pay attention to yesterday in zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Apr  2 15:40:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"dumb terminals 2.0"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 16:31:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Ugh, I'm Cc'd on a thing at 11 AM on Wednesday. So early :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 16:32:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I guess it's not clear I'm expected to attend.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 17:50:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Apparently a breadth-first search of /proc doesn't work too well

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 17:51:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Better or worse than depth-first?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 17:53:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What are you searching for?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 17:54:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Nothing in particular, my boss just seems to have written some code
that happens to breadth-first search a directory tree and I had the
brilliant idea of pointing it at /

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Apr  2 18:11:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

InvalidHandleHandler

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Apr  2 18:12:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, that was deprecated in Windows 2000. Use InvalidHandleHandlerEx,
which takes a HANDLEREX2 structure.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Apr  2 18:15:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I'm not sure that's metro-style enough.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Apr  2 18:15:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't know what metro method names look like.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Apr  2 18:21:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Well, first of all, you'll need to recompile apache with
-DBIG_SECURITY_HOLE flag set in CFLAGS."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 21:04:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

i,i "at this rate we'll have Alex Doonesbury working here"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 21:05:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(There's some dumb online competition involving voting by email, I
got frustrated at the repeated calls to get your friends to vote and
scripted the problem)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 21:58:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Auuuugh. The other side pulled ahead by 50 just before the server
crashed

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 21:58:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

And they apparently usually call this at 7 PM

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:22:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

If your interface name ends with "FactoryFactory", you might be doing
something wrong

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:23:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Welcome to Java Culture.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:23:33 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: You will never go into space. <asedeno>

I,I FactoryFactoryBorkBorkBork

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:23:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You're lucky there isn't a Facade and Bean in there

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:24:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you want to see some "awesome" class names, poke through the source
for OWASP ESAPI sometime.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:24:43 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

How about AbstractFactoryFactory?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:24:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

glasgall: I think I'm good.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:25:18 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:25:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ARGH NO NOT SPRING AGAIN

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:25:30 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I can't tell if this is serious or is the Java equivalent of
zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:25:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

keegan: It is dead serious.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:26:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:26:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*twitch*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:27:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The terrifying thing is that springweb is supposedly one of the *less
bad* Java web horrors.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:27:45 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah, it's supposed to be a less overdesigned alternative to EJB?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:28:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes and no.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:28:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

*cries*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  2 22:29:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Either way, you still don't want to get any of it on you.

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:15:55 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

wait, what about Nokia?

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:16:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

They provide a good amount of CSAIL funding

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:16:33 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

They're running orientation now in exchange for sponsorship
(in the form of a phone-tracking app to monitor early returns)

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:16:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:17:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"Ringtone Committee on Orientiation"

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Tue Apr  3 01:17:21 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

o_O

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:06:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

We are stopped because the train ahead of us "appears to be smoking,
possibly due to brakes"

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:06:29 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

that's awfully confidence-inspiring.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:09:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"possibly" due to brakes?

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:22:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Well, I'm sure they couldn't see clearly in that dark tunnel

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:23:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Anyway we're moving now

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Apr  3 12:23:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(well, got moving pretty promptly)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 13:44:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

The concept of instantiating a file object and then calling mkdir or
create or delete or rename or whatnot on it is foreign to me after
using UNIX for so long.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:27:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

ok what just happened inside my head

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:27:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I was biking in a perfectly normal way and suddenly something started hurting

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:28:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

it doesn't feel like a headache?

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:28:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Do not place on an unstable cart, stand, or table <yoz>

Does it feel like low blood sugar?

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:28:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(pulled over to the sidewalk, walking)

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:29:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Don't know what that feels like, but that normally is  a headache for me

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:29:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

and I just ate a slice of pizza and previously had a soda

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:29:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: No purchase necessary to win <yoz>

Probably not then.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:29:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Dehydration?

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:31:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

See above about soda? I don't feel thirsty

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:37:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

If it's a sudden sharp pain in the front half of your brain, that
still sounds like dehydration to me.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:39:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Yeah. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:40:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

... decided I was okay to start biking, and my chain fell off the
gear. Today is not my day

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:40:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

>.<

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:56:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I did have some ridiculously salty french fries earlier, so it's not
implausible. But strange.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 14:58:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Geoff, you're saying that you shouldn't be dehydrated because you drank
_soda_. That says to me that you're dehydrated and probably need to
rethink what hydration means.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:00:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Heh. It is entirely possible I had too much caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:08:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

probably that too :P

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:08:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

of course, you could just drink more water and see if that makes a
difference

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:42:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Sigh. Yak-shaving bugs in our Trac plugins is distinctly not my job,
but sounds way more fun than dealing with Java build systems

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:42:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Other more fun yaks I could shave that are not my job, partial list:
doing a prototype git conversion

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 15:46:41 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Wait, did I actually do dumb things to Trac? Ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: sourceforge
Time: Tue Apr  3 16:40:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Has anyone made a less sucky web interface to SourceForge?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:03:14 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Okay, what, why does wgetting
http://googleappengine.googlecode.com/files/appengine-java-sdk-1.6.4.zip
give me a 404 (even with --user-agent and --referer), but clicking the
link from https://developers.google.com/appengine/downloads work fine?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:03:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Cookies?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:04:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

This is cross-site, so cookies _shouldn't_ be relevant

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:04:57 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

FYI wget'ing that URL works for me.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:06:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

wget WFM?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:06:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:08:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh hey, because that server 404s all HEAD requests, and my wgetrc to
disable security-paranoia mode causes HEAD requests apparently

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:08:37 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Namely,
content_disposition = on
trust_server_names = on

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:09:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I should just write a more competent wget

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:09:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

using libcurl

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:09:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

... isn't that called curl?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:12:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Aha, the broken HEAD behavior is a known bug, open for four years.
http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=660

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:14:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I guess curl -OJ does what I want? I'll give that a try for a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr  3 17:15:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Where is it?” he asks. (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:01:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Oh right, starking to yesterday, we lost this thing by like 6 votes. :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:18:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Raided Evan's cubicle for a monitor and a power strip. I'm reminded
of one of those video games where if a party member dies you can loot
their corpse

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:28:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Sigh, xrandr tells me I don't have enough CRTCs, whatever those are,
to drive two monitors off this docking station :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:29:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They're the thingies that turn the contents of a framebuffer into
signals on a wire to a monitor.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:29:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(iirc)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:30:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

That's what it sounds like from the interwebs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:30:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

So I can't run both VGA and DVI :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:31:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You need a better laptop or better docking station.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:31:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...actually, hang on, if you can drive one monitor and the LCD,
shouldn't you be able to drive two monitors?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:31:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Well, I want three displays.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:31:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Running both VGA and DVI kind of sucks anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:32:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh. Yeah, you're not going to get three out of even a very modern
laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:32:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

3 in *addition* to the lvds?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:32:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He wants two + the LVDS. Which he can't have.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:32:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh, i've seen that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:49:09 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: And they all moved away from me on the bench... <eichin>

mmm, usually that needs one of the extras to be usb
or something, though

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 19:59:05 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Just get a desktop

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:01:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Aaaargh, NetBIOS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:02:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why are you even looking at NetBIOS? NBT is *dead*.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:03:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Apparently the internal hostname resolution routines do NBNS queries.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:03:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

And LLMNR. What is that I don't even?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:04:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Only if some other UNC namespace provider hasn't picked up the query,
no?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:04:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

So if you try to look up a hostname that's short enough to be a
NetBIOS hostname, and it doesn't exist in DNS, Windows will take a
while to time out

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:04:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

It's not even UNC, you can see this with ping.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:04:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:04:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

HAH! 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:05:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Fuck me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:05:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

basically.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:05:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It...actually does that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:06:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Anyway I thought I disabled all the code that ever did anything
remotely resembling NetBIOS queries, was still seeing slowness and
NBNS packets in Wireshark, threw a debugger at the problem, and
single-stepped my way to the OS routine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:06:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Congratulations, geofft, you've managed to *astonish* me with a fact
about Windows that I hadn't previously discovered in years of working
with SMB.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:07:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

:-D

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:08:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Have a cookie.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:08:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Compare the times it takes to run "ping
really-long-hostname.example.com", "ping really-long-hostname", and
"ping hostname"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:09:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(The cookie may be poisoned.)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:09:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Of coure, i do that, and discover that I'm stealing internet from
something where all dns queries resolve...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:10:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Anyway, time to commit code to disable unnecessary lookups (I assumed
they were in DNS and thus fast) and then get to learning Spring or
something

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Tue Apr  3 20:17:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

http://occupella.org/

Class: geofft Instance: eip.ttants
Time: Tue Apr  3 21:35:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

SAO
SO

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Wed Apr  4 14:38:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

lolwut

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Wed Apr  4 16:44:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I... think it is time for me to find a doctor more competent than MIT
Medical's to ask about sleep

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr  4 16:44:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Ugh, broder's desk is so dusty
(I'm attempting to take it over)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Apr  4 19:31:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"in 4% of their tests with corrupted filesystems, fsck would complete
successfully, but that a second run would find more things to fix"

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Apr  4 19:33:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I do find it interesting that freebsd fsck pegs my hdd led, but linux
(e2)fsck does not.

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:25:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

qemu -net nic -net user -net dump
wireshark -k -i <(cat qemu-vlan0.pcap)

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:28:32 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Anything worth doing is worth doing with power tools... <eichin>

or you could create a named pipe, right?

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:29:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does [...] -i /dev/stdin < qemu-vlan0.pcap
not work?

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:30:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: work it | harder | make it | better | do it | faster | makes us | stronger <eichin>

(actually I'm not sure why <(cat ..)
works at all - or if it races instead)

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:30:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

-i - works fine.

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:31:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

There's no particularly good reason that you need <(cat); wireshark
just insists it be talking to a socket/named pipe/character device,
not a normal file

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:31:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

(Possibly so it can just do blocking reads instead of inotification)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs.mq
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:48:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

"we can use folks with any of a number of skillets"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs.mq
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:48:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A yellow tribble covered in whipped cream logs in to an ia64 laptop running HP VMS <eichin>

you know, tiny little skills

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs.mq
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:51:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

"Sorry, I only have a saucepan"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb-jobs.mq
Time: Wed Apr  4 21:59:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Will you take a dutch oven?"

Class: geofft Instance: necessary-use-of-cat
Time: Wed Apr  4 22:10:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

Blargh, why are fifos made of dumb

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr  4 22:38:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

I am unreasonably excited about finding this directory:
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/Clients/LANMAN/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr  4 22:40:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh dear god, NO. PUT DOWN THAT EMULATOR.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr  4 22:41:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr  4 22:44:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: PC NETWORK PROGRAM 1.0 <geofft>

ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/bussys/Clients/Win95/perfupdate/readme.txt

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 00:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

omg yes

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Thu Apr  5 11:09:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My screen on tyger died woth a "trap stack segment" error???

Class: geofft Instance: screen
Time: Thu Apr  5 11:10:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You win?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-mashup-ideas
Time: Thu Apr  5 11:26:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Halo", Beyonce vs. Martin O'Donnell

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:49:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I ... may actually have too many computers and too many monitors. I
didn't know this was possible

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:50:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... dude, that point shows up at about N=3 computers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:50:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(Well, keyboards, really.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:50:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have four. I can definitely use 3

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:54:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: tenebrae <lizdenys>

synergy helps with this problem.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 14:54:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, I don't actually have a thing for the fourth computer to do.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:08:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, hardware.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:09:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is the worst.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:47:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, and mjg59 totally knows it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:47:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, and mjg59 totally knows it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:50:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A customer complained about a particular laptop. We actually have that
laptop. They were able to get it to work eventually... but I can't

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:49:41 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

WORKSFORME but in reverse!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr  5 18:51:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is kind of frustrating because I know there are bugs but I can't
even get to reproducing them

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 20:26:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Argh, if I bing for 'servlet range', it decides that when I said
'range' I actually misspelled 'image'. This is worse than Google.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 20:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Back to DuckDuckGo

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 20:36:07 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Never install telephone wiring during a lightning storm <yoz>

Hmm, the first result on DDG is also for image servlet.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 21:43:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... and the second result is Ikea?

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 21:43:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm going to go write my own search engine :(

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 21:43:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Stop, you've already lost.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Thu Apr  5 21:45:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

geofft, go show Google who's boss!

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 22:31:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I take Apache-licensed code and stick it in an LGPL project?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 22:31:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can I take Apache-licensed code and stick it in an LGPL project?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 22:59:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I WILL PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE.
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4187336

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 22:59:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Call Changes! <ezyang>

GEOFFT SMASH

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:00:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"a two gigabyte maximum is been enough"

I love it

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:00:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yes re: Apache + LGPLv3+

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:01:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does 2.1+ work?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:02:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I don't think so; same reasons as Apache 2.0 is not GPL-compatible: it
adds "extra restrictions" (the patent language)

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:02:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Er, not GPLv2-compatible. GPLv3 permits this kind of "extra
restrictions"

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:02:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

See also http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#apache2

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:03:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Naturally, for an authoritative source, ask licensing@fsf.org AKA
Brett Smith

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:04:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He'll actually give you an answer, too! He's a really good guy.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:04:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If this is for work don't you have lawyers?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:04:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I know him from IRC in the Before Time.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:04:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

He's also totally awesome in person.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:04:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Lawyers, in general, in my experience, still have difficulty with
copyleft.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:05:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

asheesh: Oh, totally. We met up once a...wow, that must have been
years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:05:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(:

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:05:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is he (still?) in Boston?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:05:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't this a trivial backward-compatible(ish) change? Modulo, like,
reflection weirdness or something making something that would throw
an exception not doing so, shouldn't they be able to just add another
method that takes a long, and everything will work equivalently?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:05:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yup, Somerville (Davis Square, iirc)

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:06:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Heh, I should let him know I'm moving up.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:06:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think type promotion rules bite you here.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:06:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We might, but I'd like to know if it's plausible before attempting to
do this.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:07:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. Really? Why?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:07:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also I recall ... nelhage? getting a wrong answer from
licensing@fsf.org once.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:07:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

hearsay!

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:07:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, hang on, Java doesn't have signed vs unsigned types, does it.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:07:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay ugh, I guess I will be arguing that this is de minimis copying
or something. :-(

I can still runtime-link LGPLv2.1+ and Apache 2 code, right?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:08:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, I believe I did. I forget what it was. Something about barnowl
and sleepycat.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:08:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Was this an early logging-to-database thing?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:09:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

owl is released under the sleepycat license.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:09:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because, well, if you're going to write code of owl's quality, might
as well pick an equally reasonable license.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:09:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:10:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You know, I never actually looked at barnowl's license before right
now. Oh dear.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:10:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

We asked kretch if he'd be willing to re-release under another
license, and we got GPLv3.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:10:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

We *almost* converted to GPLv3, but then there was angst, and I ran
out of giving a fuck.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:11:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That /is/ the general problem with licensing issues.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:11:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(angst and running out of giveafuck)

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:11:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

A unit somewhat but not completely interchangeable with round tuits!

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:12:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. Do we actually include in reasonably prominent form how to find
the code?

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:12:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think it's like joules versus watts, or watts versus volt-amps, or
something.

Class: geofft Instance: licensing.d
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:13:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

roundtuits = giveafucks * will factor?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:16:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

seder (Passover meal)
seder (someone who is often also an awker and a grepper)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:17:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: Unappetizing is no printout! <lgdean>

satyr (what my co-worker thought I said today; we're not sure whether an
unleavened one would look different)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:19:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Probably somewhat more emaciated?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:19:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

emacs-iated?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:19:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: Unappetizing is no printout! <lgdean>

yeah, we thought it might be smaller.

ouch.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:30:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I'm very not used to needing to say if (foo != null) instead of just
if (foo).

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:36:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... if(foo) doesn't work?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:38:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

incompatible types
found   : java.lang.String
required: boolean

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:38:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmph.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:39:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guess if((bool)foo) isn't really a solution, even if it works.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:39:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

s/bool/boolean/

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:39:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:39:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does *some* C-like language use bool, or am I make stuff up?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:40:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

C++

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:41:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(The cast apparently doesn't work anyway.)

C99 too.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:42:15 2012 Host: ET-FOURTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: 3 5 2251 39499 <cesium>

You can't cast anything to boolean in Java.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:44:56 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

C# also

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Thu Apr  5 23:45:29 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

(Not that it's particularly C-like, syntax aside)

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:27:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I kind of completely agree with Max here

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:32:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

==. Occasionally I think "but I'm smart and healthy and that means
I'll be able to make an awesome baby!". And then I remember that I
also inherited the shitty teeth and the shitty eyes and the propensity
for depression and the history of breast(?) cancer.

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:33:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

It's always possible that at some point I'll start feeling a powerful
urge to create my own baby...

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:34:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*blink*

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:35:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

This makes more sense now that I've figured out what the instance
refers to.

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:36:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I mean, apparently this is a thing that happens to a lot of people.
Fertility treatments exist for a reason, and I find it sort of hard to
believe that it's 100% due to narcissism. So I'm just saying that
until I've been there, I can't truly understand.

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:36:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I was *blink*ing at your first zephyr, Alioth, if that was unclear.)

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:37:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...which part of it?

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:38:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, "I agree with <person>" isn't usually followed up by "I'll be
able to make an awesome baby!"...

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:38:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, depression has a genetic component?

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:40:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I think it might? I've never had any genetic tests but I think there's
a mild family history of depression.

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:41:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

My understanding is that it's like cancer in that there can be a
genetic predisposition to it that will increase your odds, but I can't
actually site any studies here...

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:41:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

But, like, not a gene that says "you will suffer from depression,"
just that you may be more likely to do so

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:41:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Yeah, that.

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:42:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Erm, although this is all based off of what I've heard from other
people, so I don't actually know what I'm talking about/biology is
hard

Class: geofft Instance: leftoversoup
Time: Fri Apr  6 02:43:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I mean, based on the fact that SSRIs work, a mutation that slightly
affected the number of serotonin reuptake proteins on your neurons
could tilt the equilibrium one way or the other, in combination with
life factors and stress and stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: public-transit
Time: Fri Apr  6 14:01:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

"oops"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:12:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oh right, Spring

Class: geofft Instance: work.commentq
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

"The separation is need to avoid hacking into the system"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:15:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oops, ran out of free space on water-buffalo. Fixed

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:23:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

An "incdent" occured at Redwood City

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:23:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

er, "incident"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:24:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I believe that means "(probably dead now) person on the tracks".

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:24:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:24:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Trains delayed 40 minutes both directions

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:25:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Poor train operator :(

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:26:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:29:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Heh, parked by bike next to one with an MIT bicycle license sticker

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:32:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"bicycle license"?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:32:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

They mean registration

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:33:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Boarder, conductor says the train stuck a pedestrian

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:33:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

*Boarded

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:34:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

IIRC, the sticker actually says "MIT BICYCLE LICENSE," right?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:36:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work.commentq
Time: Fri Apr  6 15:48:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

"It's kind of stupid to doing this ways!"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 17:13:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Caltrain-Strikes-Injures-Woman-146459375.html

Looks like she survived and was taken to a hospital.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Apr  6 17:16:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

yay <3 world

Class: geofft Instance: http
Time: Fri Apr  6 20:41:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Hahaha, RFC 2616 section 15.7.1 is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: http
Time: Fri Apr  6 20:43:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Indeed!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr  6 22:28:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

"The primary purpose of the Data statement is to give names to
constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every
appearance, the variable Pi can be given that value with a Data
statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This
also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr  6 22:31:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"I think if the universe shifted around such that the value of pi
changed, we'd have bigger things to worry about than hardcoded
constants."

Class: geofft Instance: openssl
Time: Sat Apr  7 00:32:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

s_client, die in a fire

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 02:04:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Noooo, I appear to have forgotten all my Haskell

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 02:05:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I have these notes I wrote down on... some form of existentially
quantified data types? and I can't make sense of them

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 02:07:45 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

*jumps up and down trying to look helpful*

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Apr  7 05:03:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Just learned something!

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Apr  7 05:04:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Greg and I were talking and he made the point "it's research code" in
the phrasing of completing and shipping an MVP

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Apr  7 05:05:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Which is actually an excellent way to phrase that it doesn't need to
be perfect or solve every corner case while avoiding the common
concept of "research code" as completely unsalvageable

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Apr  7 05:06:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Since the point of an MVP is that it is in fact viable -- you can
build on it later -- but you haven't done that building yet.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sat Apr  7 05:08:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

That there's no inconsistency between "no technical debt" and
"incomplete".

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:33:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Okay, say I have a data type
data Foo = OneInt Integer | TwoInts Integer Integer | NoInts String
and a handful of functions of type Integer -> Integer. It's easy
enough to write
frobFoo :: Foo -> (Integer -> Integer) -> Foo
frobFoo f (OneInt x = OneInt (f x)
frobFoo f (TwoInts x y) = TwoInts (f x) (f y)
frobFoo f (NoInts s) = NoInts s
by hand, but is there a way to automatically extend this if frobFoo
had tons and tons more cases?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:34:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I get that if there are tons of datatypes like Foo, the typeclass I
want is Functor and frobFoo is named fmap. But I want to scale in the
other direction, of lots of data constructors for the same datatype

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:40:12 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I think if you really want to do it this way, you probably want
Template Haskell.  But I'd recommend doing

        data Foo = NoInts String
                 | SomeInts [Integer]
        instance Functor Foo where
          fmap f (NoInts s) = NoInts s
          fmap f (SomeInts ints) = SomeInts $ map f ints

instead.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:40:47 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

To Haskell, it's not obvious how to extend frobFoo to many data
constructors because there's no guarantee that all of the data
constructors behave in a recognizable pattern.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:41:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Try "deriving Functor"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:41:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Treble's going. <ezyang>

Anything more complicated will need metaprogramming.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Well, secretly there's also TwoIntsAndAString,
FifteenIntsABooleanThreeFloatsAndAnotherInt, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Well, secretly there's also TwoIntsAndAString,
FifteenIntsABooleanThreeFloatsAndAnotherInt, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:42:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three to one. <ezyang>

Doesn't matter. Any input which is not polymorphic isn't covered by the
functor typeclass.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:42:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

And secretly I also want to be able to fmap functions of type String
-> String, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:42:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Caters! <ezyang>

So you're not actually talking about a functor.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Well, it implements the Functor typeclass for ints, but also for
strings!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:43:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

"No that's not how it works"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:43:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Template Haskell is a term I haven't heard before, thanks. I will
search the web

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 12:44:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

(Yeah, there's a more simple example about how integers don't
implement like a Field typeclass because it's not obvious whether you
want additive or multiplicative or what)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:44:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I love how this language is best documented via academic papers

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:44:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Before writing your own Template Haskell thingy I suggest looking at a
lens library (fclabels, data-lens) or a generic programming library
(Scrap Your Boilerplate, Uniplate, or the builtin DeriveGeneric stuff
added in GHC 7.2)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:47:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

When you find an academic paper about an extension to Haskell, you
then have to guess all the changes they made before it got into GHC
for real

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:47:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Yeah...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:51:33 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Template Haskell is really neat.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:53:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I think I finally "got" how the type system and monads and lots of
other stuff works by reading
http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mpj/pubs/springschool95.pdf
which slightly predates their final implementation, I believe (for
instance, the paper's definition of monad starts "class Functor m =>
Monad m")

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:53:44 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

TH is neat.  It's also super clunky and not fully implemented wrt the
paper.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:55:33 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I usually find I can't use quotation syntax very much, because it
lacks support for something I need (like splicing patterns)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:56:52 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

And the restriction that a splice can't call a function defined in the
same module is also super annoying

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:57:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's your zsig from?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:57:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

A conversation on -c cesium

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:58:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We did some really horrible things with Java generics when I was at WG. I
should see if I can find some of them.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:59:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. That conversation confuses me.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 15:59:18 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I find Template Haskell takes maybe  10 times as long to write, per
line, as Regular Haskell

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:03:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

.... oops, should have made my AFS cache a separate partition

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:03:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ dmesg | tail
[30203502.957121]
[30203502.957121] *** Cache partition is FULL - Decrease cachesize!!!
***
[30203502.957122]
[30203502.961048] afs: failed to store file (5)
[30203502.994864]
[30203502.994866]
[30203502.994867]
[30203502.994868] *** Cache partition is FULL - Decrease cachesize!!!
***
[30203502.994869]
[30203502.994997] afs: failed to store file (5)

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:48:31 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

re: TH and splices: I thought a splice just couldn't call functions
defined below it in the module?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:50:58 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

With this program:

    {-# LANGUAGE TemplateHaskell #-}
    f x = x + 1
    y = $(f 1)

I get

    GHC stage restriction: `f'
      is used in a top-level splice or annotation,
      and must be imported, not defined locally
    In the expression: f 1
    In the expression: $(f 1)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:52:08 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Likewise you can't do

    y = $(f 1) where
        f x = x + 1

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oh, ew. The paper's definition doesn't have that restriction, does it?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:52:42 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't remember.  The paper allows a lot of things GHC doesn't, like
pattern splices

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:52:42 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Oh, that's unfortunate. I must've been thinking of something else.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr  7 16:59:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Right, I still need to play with GObject introspection

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:01:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Do you? Do you really?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:03:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I'd certainly like to know what it is.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:07:54 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

TH would be much nicer without the stage restrictions.  You could have
a *runtime* function that turns Haskell syntax into a function.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:08:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

This would go well with a JIT-based Haskell implementation, which is
another thing I would like to see

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:08:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

i,i HsHs

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:14:54 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

GHC may well be a great ahead-of-time native code compiler with a
great implementation of shared memory multithreading, in a world where
neither of these things is relevant anymore

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:21:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Awww, I want to go to Thelonious Monkfish

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:21:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

(Also, I love how half of you spelled that correctly.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:29:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Learning Coq before properly learning Haskell is weird.
(Also, I think I forgot Coq, too.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:29:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Cambridge Surprise Major! <ezyang>

boo

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:30:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

(I think I bothered Anders for some Haskell help at ET once and was
having trouble phrasing my way of thinking without using dependent
typing)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:30:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I wonder if I want to go do something productive with Coq. And/or
work through CPDT more slowly

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:32:06 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Have you used Agda?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:32:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

No. I hear it's worth trying.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:32:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I think also on my list of crazy languages to pick up is actual ML

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:37:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

How did lunch go?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:39:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I just went to a cafe. Is there anything interesting happening in the
apartment? I can head back

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:45:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Nah, shrug, we are eating leftovers; I am chilling in living room,
price in his room

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:45:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I plan to do some cleaning and eventually hacking

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:57:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

What's your machine's laptop battery like? We should go hack outside
somewhere today

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:57:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I have a like 8-hour battery but I keep forgetting to charge it. :(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:57:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I have... 20 minutes left on my current one

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:58:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Are you working on battery at the moment?! Plug in.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 17:58:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Usually you can keep a battery charged by just usually using your
charger...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:00:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Yeah, that involves finding a seat near a power outlet

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:00:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Also, I have two batteries, my usual one and the super-long one, and
the issue is forgetting to switch batteries and leave the super-long
one charging overnight

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:00:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Where are you?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:00:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

A cafe

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:03:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am going to plan on hacking outside from 4:30 until my power runs
out, about 2h (6:30). I think I'll go to Dolores Park and see if table spots
are available there at 4:30p. geofft, feel free to prepare or join me
in whatever way suits you(: (sunset at 7:39p). Then I will come back
home, eat dinner, and go to an a capella show at 8p:
http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=10041

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:05:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Could in theory be convinced to do back porch > Dolores Park. AFK a
few

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:06:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Hm, that show is moderately interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:07:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Okay, I clearly failed to appreciate GADTs before. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:18:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Sadly I suspect I want interwebs. Also I have furniture to assemble at
some point

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr  7 18:27:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Interwebs come from wifi tether on my Android phone

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:17:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

What's a good 3D drawing/something tool? (Preferably Linux-compatible)

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:17:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

e.g. for drawing possible room layouts

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:17:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

The usual answer is Google Sketch-Up

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:18:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: She's gone. <ezyang>

i,i ECAD

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:19:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: X-Ray! <ezyang>

"with wine"

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:19:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

== asheesh, though I don't know if it works on Linux nowadays.
3.75 years ago, there wasn't a really good option.

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:20:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I have Windows

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 21:21:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Autodesk makes good software which takes time to learn.

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 22:12:52 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @i(Never) disillusion someone who's carrying a laser gun, Ozy... <eichin>

(starking) see also tinkercad

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat Apr  7 22:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

reading papers on Haskell
actually writing code

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 23:42:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) I used Floorplanner (floorplanner.com) for my apartment.
It sucked, but it sucked less than the other things I tried.

Class: geofft Instance: software
Time: Sat Apr  7 23:42:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) I used Floorplanner (floorplanner.com) for my apartment.
It sucked, but it sucked less than the other things I tried.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:18:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I want to write a program that uses ptrace. I don't really want to
use C and Python because I know them too well. What are my options?

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:19:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Little Bob Royal! <ezyang>

Haskell+FFI

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:19:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I was planning on writing the next thing I wanted to write in Scala,
but that doesn't work so well with the ptrace

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Plain hunting! <ezyang>

Go

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:20:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Go!

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:20:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Erin Doubles! <ezyang>

Basically, any language with a decent FFI should do.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:20:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Brilliant! Thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:21:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Give http://www.bitc-lang.org/ a read also

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:23:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Bristol Maximus! <ezyang>

I thought Bitc was dead though

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:23:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Seems to be not updated since 2010, which suggests dead (or close)

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:25:44 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Another language in the same vein is http://www.rust-lang.org/

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:27:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Anyway, I've actually been wanting to learn Go, and this should be a
task well-suited to it. (I'm happy to parse the output of strace,
too, provided that running strace is reasonable)

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:27:39 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Rust is a very active project from Mozilla Labs.  FWIW there's more
Rust code than Go code on GitHub

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:27:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

By that metric, I guess I could try Vala.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:28:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(:

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:28:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

You missed a seder with one of the world's experts in applied Vala,
Adam Dingle.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:28:50 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Maybe you *should* try Vala.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr  8 01:33:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Crap, found another interesting paper. :-(

Class: geofft Instance: else.grad-school.wat
Time: Sun Apr  8 03:36:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/grad-advice.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 15:21:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

As a side note, I am on the porch listening to This American Life
enjoying the weather!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:10:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oops, now that I'm making money I can afford to buy pointless things.
Like http://www.zzounds.com/item--AKAEWIUSB

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:10:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Someone convince me not to buy it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:10:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

wtf

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:11:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

http://www.quora.com/How-can-wealthy-families-teach-their-children-to-live-frugally/answers/921458

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:11:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

don't buy that one, i looks crappy

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:11:29 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: I'm going to associate Comic Sans with chemistry for the rest of my life. - kdrinkwa <wings>

geofft, if you give me the money I will put it to better use

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:13:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Asheesh's suggestion is to put the money towards just getting a
better keyboard, which I actually will use.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:16:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

or, rather, at least make sure you're happy with the keyboard purchase
first.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:16:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

or, rather, at least make sure you're happy with the keyboard purchase
first.

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:20:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

   NULL is a block cipher the origins of which appear to be lost in
   antiquity.  Despite rumors that the National Security Agency
   suppressed publication of this algorithm, there is no evidence of
   such action on their part. Rather, recent archaeological evidence
   suggests that the NULL algorithm was developed in Roman times, as an
   exportable alternative to Ceaser ciphers. However, because Roman
   numerals lack a symbol for zero, written records of the algorithm's
   development were lost to historians for over two millennia.

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:22:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Funny, I thought it was a stream cipher.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:25:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oh man! I shouldn't buy this either!
http://www.zzounds.com/item--NORNC2

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:29:01 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That came up at work recently.  I'ts a great RFC

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:29:50 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

And it's not even an April 1st RFC.

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:30:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:32:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is it? The identity function?

Class: geofft Instance: rfcq
Time: Sun Apr  8 17:32:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Dunno what to make of " Credit also needs to be given to the
participants of the Cisco/ICSA IPsec & IKE March 1998
Interoperability Workshop since it was there that the need for this
document became apparent." Are they making fun of them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 15:21:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I think my goal for today is to write at least one line of Linux code.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 15:22:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 15:22:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Which I think is easy, I just need to get around to that and stop
thinking about Windows or Java code

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Range attack (CVE-2011-3192)
Range attack (with a bow and arrow or slingshot)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:34:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

holy crap, Intel just shipped us a desktop with a frontpanel

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:35:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What does that mean?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:39:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

It's got an LED display on the front that apparently shows outbs to a
certain IO port, and has some buttons that presumably do things.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I don't _actually_ think I can toggle a BIOS in, sadly, but it looks
like it might work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 19:41:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am almost certain that it doesn't actually let you toggle things
into registers or RAM.

Class: geofft Instance: hn.elses
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:07:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Decided it's probably worth a namespace grab on HN. Surprisingly,
"geofft" was free.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:15:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I really want higher-order git.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:15:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What would that do?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:16:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

The things we discussed a couple months back at SIPB about diffdiffs
and diffdiffdiffs

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:16:19 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Ah, that sort of higher-order.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:16:34 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There are tools to manage patch queues (like quilt and stgit), but I'm
not sure if they solve your problem.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:20:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I may want to try out stgit. I've interacted with quilt in Debian
packaging and haven't been a fan.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:21:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

My current problem is that I'm doing some local work and making
changes to commits and posting them for review (think [PATCH v2
1/5]), and I'd like a way to track history of individual patches as
they've been revised, even if I reorder them or whatever, same as I
can track files across renames

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:39:11 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I don't think stgit will really help you with that; it mostly assumes
the prior state of your patch queue is uninteresting (unless you just
screwed up).  Over time I've also found that it has a bit more hidden
state than I'd like.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 20:39:43 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It does support "stg publish" which you can use to snapshot the state
of the patch queue, but tracking history of patches after you've done
that would be up to you.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Keep in mind git patch-id

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:29:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

"Also isn't this called darcs?" (And isn't the problem deeply
intractable?)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:36:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Well, the issue is I'm also modifying the patch a little...

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

If I have v1, v2, v3 patches for review, I want some form of log to
see _the patches_ across history. (Note that this is basically what
you get if you keep a quilt patchset)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:38:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

So I can get my transaction history... as a PDF?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Mon Apr  9 21:39:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We [you, me, ezyang, possibly davidben?] need to sit down and write
this part of packagefab.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 22:46:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

today is not a productive day. I think I kind of want to leave and do
work at a cafe or similar, but I'm not convinced I'll be productive,
given that I need access to a couple of VMs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr  9 22:46:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

(\exists a VPN but getting to three VMs over a VPN sounds slow)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 00:31:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am at a cafe in MV

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:04:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Hm, Go doesn't have fork(). So it's not really the systems language
I've always wanted. (And given the manual's preference for C, I think
the systems language I've always wanted is in fact C)

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:05:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

It's kind of hard to use ptrace(PTRACE_TRACEME) without fork.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:08:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I also vaguely suspect that if I'm writing anything involving ptrace,
I want to fork reptyr.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:12:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I kind of want to try (cold-brewed) coffee in chocolate milk. I
wonder if it will make for an awesome mocha.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:16:41 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

You can do it with http://golang.org/pkg/syscall/

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:17:58 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=227#c4

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:18:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Hm, my copy of `godoc syscall` doesn't have a plain fork.

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:19:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Oh, fine, syscall.Syscall. Why is there no library function for it?

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:25:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

The presence of syscall.PtraceSingleStep and not syscall.PtraceSyscall
is also somewhat puzzling. The lack of syscall.PtraceTraceme is a
little less puzzling given the lack of syscall.Fork

Class: geofft Instance: languages
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:26:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

But only a little, since the natural way to avoid needing an explicit
Fork is to os.StartProcess (or ForkExec) a tiny helper go program
that does a PTRACE_TRACEME and then os.Execs the real app you care
about

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:29:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I can barely write Python and C at the same time. I have a lot of
respect for people who can write Haskell and Coq at the same time

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:30:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Go, Grandsire Doubles! <ezyang>

I'm writing Haskell to write Coq... not sure if this is better or worse.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:57:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

So actually I suspect you want more awesome functions for doing that
and fewer strings running around.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Tue Apr 10 03:57:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

So actually I suspect you want more awesome functions for doing that
and fewer strings running around.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Tue Apr 10 04:02:53 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Apr 10 04:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:40:37 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At Ksplice we got like 80% of the way to what you're asking for with
Anders's script git-diff-branch.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:42:20 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which is about two lines long at its core.  You run 'diff -u' on the two
'git log -p' outputs, and throw in some '-I' options for the stuff that's
noise.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:43:20 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

For bonus points, colorize the output with sed.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:44:39 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And by 80% I may mean 90 or 95%.  You get very clear diffs showing what
changed from one version of a branch / patch series to another.  The main
thing you don't get is commit messages to explain to yourself why you
made the changes you did.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:44:39 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And by 80% I may mean 90 or 95%.  You get very clear diffs showing what
changed from one version of a branch / patch series to another.  The main
thing you don't get is commit messages to explain to yourself why you
made the changes you did.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:47:47 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, and it wouldn't solve your problems if you want multiple people to
be collaborating on a branch like this.  That's an unsolved problem
AFAIK and could be cool to fix.  But for one person and even some
multi-person use cases, rebase + diff-branch + maybe adding notes in
brackets to commit messages (like kernel maintainers sometimes do when
they materially change a patch) is a pretty good solution.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:53:10 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

> For bonus points, colorize the output with sed.

git diff-branch uses 'colordiff' which is already a standard thing you
can install.  (It's perl, not sed, but close enough)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:58:14 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

You can also use git diff --no-index but not directly as

  $ git diff --no-index <(git log -u master..theirs) \
                        <(git log -u master..mine)

because (on Linux) it will note that /proc/self/fd/63 is a symbolic
link and read the link without dereferencing it!

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:58:33 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

is this script somewhere? because, well, openafs...

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 06:58:36 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

But the same idea works well with colordiff and is basically what
git-diff-branch does.  I think it also computes the merge base
automatically

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 14:23:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Ksplice also had a heavily email-based workflow. What I want is the
local history in my git repo (not my email inbox) of all previous
revisions I had to a patchset, even those I didn't send out for review

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 14:24:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

The diff-diff is useful, but that's not currently my problem (I can
generate/read diff-diffs on my own, and my real problem is submitting
branches to other people for review so that's their problem)

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Tue Apr 10 14:24:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I mostly want it for myself to go and look at historic changes, or
"what's in this branch that's not in this one", or whatever

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 18:36:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

wat. Apple's iOS docs just fell off the net?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 18:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Indeed they did...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 18:50:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Bah, everything I want to do is going to get rejected by the App
Store censors :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:02:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I have seven computers at my desk :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:02:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

3 more and you'll only have 2!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:04:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, then he'll have A.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:05:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Even better, A computer!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:07:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Also, the kerning on this BIOS is wrong :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:08:01 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why is there kerning in a monospace font?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 10 21:09:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Who said anything about a monospace font?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:18:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

http://tinytocs.org/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:20:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

my officemate showed me that today

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:20:03 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I can't tell if they're trolling.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:20:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

"maybe I should submit something"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:21:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

I know a few of the program committee members....

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:22:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

Did you look at the sample submission?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:36:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Yeah, that was pretty good.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I'm tempted to submit something

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Apr 10 23:37:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

"treat it as a HotFoo conference and post some random half-baked
claim and not really defend it"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:06:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

My head hurts, but I feel like I want to look at this later and
understand the sections starting at "Filesystem and storage sessions"
here:
http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/490114/a05c26a8bfdd3cd3/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:10:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Wait how did I miss this
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/09/has-joel-spolsky-jumped-the-shark.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:10:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

URL says it all

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:25:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "What's your totem animal?"   "bulldozer." <eichin>

the whole wasabi thing?  I haven't seen (and google
doesn't turn up) anything *recent* about it...

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:28:07 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you think it hurts as much for them as it does for us? <eichin>

(we evaluated fogbugz around then.  it ended up lacking
some important feature or other, like "distinct products", or maybe
"multiple live releases"? something that was probably ok if your
product was shrinkwrap software, but not so much for what we were
doing.  wasabi itself didn't really matter...)

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:31:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Go. Eat. A. Cookie. <eichin>

or maybe they just got annoyed and stopped talking about it :-)
http://fogbugz.stackexchange.com/questions/210/is-fogbugz-7-written-in-net-or-still-wasabi

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:33:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Yeah, I'm surprised I missed it five years ago, is all.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 11 00:59:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

putenv("KRB5_KTNAME=/dev/null"); /* kerberos V can kiss my pasty white ass */

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:29:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

sigh, want to stay at work super-late but I'll miss caltrain if I
don't leave in like ten minutes :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:29:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

sigh, want to stay at work super-late but I'll miss caltrain if I
don't leave in like ten minutes :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:29:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I think I've learned this lesson before -- it's possible to dayshift,
but it doesn't work very well, and I'm not very productive

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Geofft, work on 828

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:30:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

er, I mean go home.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:30:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I actually kind of need to finish this before start of business
tomorrow if QA is supposed to review it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:31:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Geofft, work on 828

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 01:31:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Gooey! <ezyang>

Geofft, work on your thesis

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Apr 11 02:31:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Is it raining in SF at the moment?

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Apr 11 02:33:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

nvm

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Apr 11 02:52:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

like seriously raining
also geofft, oops, I was just driving from San Jose to SF

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 12:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Can we stop advertising our product as having "seven layers of
security?" We're selling a VMM, not a bean dip

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 12:34:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hah*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 12:34:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

also ugh hardware

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 12:34:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

I guess we are kind of in the business of making hardware our problem
instead of our customers'

Class: geofft Instance: usn
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:16:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

> It was discovered that the NVIDIA graphics drivers could be
> reconfigured to gain access to arbitrary system memory. A local
> attacker could use this issue to possibly gain root privileges.

kwality

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:17:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

https://allthingsd.com/20120409/attention-marc-andreessen-microsoft-just-bought-part-of-netscape/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:56:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

We have decided not to name our product "Strap-On".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:56:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

We might be naming it "Securify", though. Unclear.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:57:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> not to
Wise decision.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:57:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

We really should hire someone to name our products for us.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:57:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Admittedly, last time we did that, they only got us to go from
"Moka5" to "MokaFive", so I maybe shouldn't be optimistic about that
being useful

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 14:58:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "and someone to invalidate your caches"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:01:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Also my CEO believes I have no friends because I haven't referred
anyone. We're hiring (both full-time and summer interns), ping me in
personals if you want details

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:01:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

At some point I'll unlame and send mail to sipb-jobs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:12:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh! Except I don't need a job.

Class: geofft Instance: curl
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:12:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

zomg! the --libcurl option is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:12:53 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

> believes I have no friends

I... wat.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:12:59 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

"I have only highly employable friends"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 15:15:07 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Dej Sem Mozek <eichin>

"overemployed"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:05:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

The problem with waking up early is I need lunch super-early (like 1
PM) instead of at a normal hour like 4

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:05:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

stop trolling me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:06:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:06:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What is this crazy talk; 1pm is clearly breakfast time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:06:24 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Clearly!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 11 16:58:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FlipGuy<? extends Flippable> TableFlipGuy = new FlipGuy<Table>(); <geofft>

Mac! It's like Windows, except better at the "This is POSIX, I know
this" deception.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 01:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"Yeah, I can't believe this. Doesn't anybody at Facebook know you can
just download Instagram for free?"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 01:44:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

++

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Thu Apr 12 01:46:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Oh hey, apparently there was a redesign or something? Now I understand
what everyone was complaining about

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Thu Apr 12 01:47:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(clicked on a link to a G+ post about someone complaining about the
redesign)

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 18:59:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

ipxe is amazing

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:00:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I built an image and booted it and went "kernel
http://mirrors.mit.edu/.../linux" and it worked

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:22:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

iPXE is awesome. Did you hear they have TLS certificate support now
(including client certificates)?

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:22:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

iPXE is awesome. Did you hear they have TLS certificate support now
(including client certificates)?

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:27:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I saw something about crypto in git log

Class: geofft Instance: ipxe
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:27:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I saw something about crypto in git log

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:37:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Is a Packages file permitted to contain two paragraphs about the same
packkage at different versions?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Apr 12 19:37:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(WAYRTTD: Precise amd64 has update-manager 1:0.156.10 and .11, and
just update-manager-core .11, and a new install is confused. Of
course, it's precise, so breakage is expected)

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:33:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"I know how to increase performance, we can turn off fsync"

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:50:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Also earlier today:
me to boss: "What should I work on? Server code? [mobile] Client code?
  Debugging this BareMetal crash?"
CEO: "All three, at the same time"
me: "I only have two monitors, I can do two but not three"
CEO: *goes and grabs two more monitors and puts them on my desk*

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I now have... six monitors.

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:52:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

...where did the other two come from? I only see four in your story.

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:53:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I already had two unused at my desk

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:53:15 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I,I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:User_multi_monitor

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(because my laptop can only drive two, and I haven't installed this
desktop)

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 20:59:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Is this Dale?

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:32:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:32:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"how did you guess"

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:33:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

He has the Can't Tell If Trolling nature.

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:35:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

This is the bestest story, geofft. Now you have to ask for 2 more to
have a power of two again!

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:35:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Well, I have two laptops.

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Thu Apr 12 21:35:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Plus my own laptop. Plus... hm, did Monica finally take her Chromebook
back? yay

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:37:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I wonder ifyou could make Gentoo compiles fast and keep the ricer
property by delivering a compiler's intermediate representation in
addition to the source, so you can skip the lexing/parsing/syntax
checking/figuring out what the code does phases, but you still get to
do the optimization/cpu-specific flags/-funroll-loops phases.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:37:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:38:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

Or, just keeping ccache around works ~reasonably well.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:38:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

But it doesn't help you on the very first compile of some brand-new
code

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:39:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

sure

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:39:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Like if you emerge KDE one day, you should be able to take advantage
of someone else having preprocessed all those slots and signals for
you

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:39:55 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Or, you know, you could install a reasonable distribution.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:40:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Preprocessing makes this weirder...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:40:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

at the very least, I'm pretty sick of seeing configure repeat the
same checks for *every* package. Configure takes longer than the
compile for a lot of small packages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:40:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

very few checks get cached.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:40:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

It occurs to me that this is baaasically equivalent to compiling Java
down to JVM bytecode, and letting the VM on the end user's machine
deal with generating processor-specific bytecode and doing
optimizations.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:41:10 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So basically, have everyone use clang, and ship LLVM-IR

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:42:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

acrefoot: If I remember correctly from last time I read the autoconf
manual, there are actually ways to work around that. Then again, if I
remember correctly from last time I read the autoconf manual, I
almost went mad.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:43:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Clearly it's time for you to rewrite configure in C. Yo dawg, I herd
you leik to configure, so you need a c-configure to configure your
c-configure.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:43:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I didn't even know you @i(could) kill chocolate ice-cream! <eichin>

use gcc-xml for that maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:44:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

ITYM merge autoconf into systemd

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:44:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

AHHH gcc-xml is a real thing? You weren't kidding?!??!!?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:44:53 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Free as in loader <eichin>

Package: gccxml
Priority: optional
Section: devel
 There is one open-source C++ parser, the C++ front-end to GCC, which
 is currently able to deal with the language in its entirety. The
 purpose of the GCC-XML extension is to generate an XML description of
 a C++ program from GCC's internal representation. Since XML is easy to
 parse, other development tools will be able to work with C++ programs
 without the burden of a complicated C++ parser.
Homepage: http://www.gccxml.org/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:45:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

Hmm, I've gotten too many headaches dealing with autotools to find the
right answer. I know that some checks get cached in gentoo, and others
don't. Stuff like certain compiler sanity checks and whatnot that
really should get cached. I imagine the answer is *hard* or someone
would have done the right thing in the gentoo build system, but maybe
I'm assuming too much competence/impatience from other users.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:46:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hyperspecialization is the new black <eichin>

the http://www.gccxml.org/HTML/FAQ.html suggests
that it's missing all of the important bits, like function bodies :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:46:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hyperspecialization is the new black <eichin>

the http://www.gccxml.org/HTML/FAQ.html suggests
that it's missing all of the important bits, like function bodies :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:48:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,225,264. Issued May 29, 2007; 4th of 6. <eichin>

if we'd ever gotten really fascist about Standard
Macros, it would have been a lot easier for gentoo/debian/whoever to
ship a config.site that let you skip all of that.  I'm not sure who
actually Pays Attention to that kind of thing these days though

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:49:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hard to get people excited about when CPU is cheap.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:50:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You don't need to get people excited, you just need to do it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:50:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yeah, the fact that _Debian build servers_ need to run ./configure
confuses me. You know exactly what's there, so it amounts to a test
suite, and if you want a test suite on build-essential / libraries you
can do it once there, not on consuming packages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:51:05 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Well, what if a package has an unlisted dep?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:51:42 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Is g++'s C++ parser still better than clang++'s?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:51:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

That's why you insist developers do builds on their local systems
before pushing uploads.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:51:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The meek will not inherit the Earth. The lawyers challenged God's Will and had it overturned. <eichin>

then the build servers don't install it and the package fails to build anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:52:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But it will fail in a nicer way? And you can insist all you want
developers will still fuck it up.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:52:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

It doesn't need to spend time failing in a nicer way on every single
builder.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:52:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

You do one ./configure run on amd64 or something fast, and skip it
everywhere else.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:52:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

And skip it for, like, security team uploads too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:52:50 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are the libraries guaranteed to be in the same place?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:53:16 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also, how do you know the configure script doesn't go groping for
header files and does soemthing stupid arcitecture-specific?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yes[*].

[*] Modulo multiarch, but the libraries are guaranteed to be in the
place that is the result of the same function, so same difference.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:53:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Because it's GNU autoconf

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:53:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

If it's not GNU autoconf or has nonstandard macros or shell in your
configure.ac (ew), then skip this optimization

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:53:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, I've definitely seen configure scripts do stupid
architecture-specific things. I think you have too much faith in their
consistency.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:54:33 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The reason this is an unsolved problem is because it's Hard for little
benefit. The few seconds you're going to waste to run configure versus
the hundreds of manhours to write a better thing isn't worth it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:54:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No method nor discipline can supersede the necessity of being forever on the alert... <eichin>

eh, anyone actually digging in and caring about this
[which I do not recommend] could find ways to encourage the relevant devs/packagers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 12 23:55:48 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me! <eichin>

(the non-executing cross-target case was the
Interesting one, but not to *that* many people, and we just cheated
and stapled answers in config.cache, iirc?)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:18:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

CRAP. multiple inheritance.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:19:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Normally java people go "crap, we *don't* have multiple inheritance,
use an interface"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:19:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Right, this is CRAP, my wonderful refactoring now has this one class
needing multiple inheritance

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:19:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Except.... ooh! I bet I'm inheriting from A, and also want to inherit
from B which inherits from A

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:20:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

So if I just stop inheriting from A, I'm probably good?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:20:35 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

One does not usually refactor into multiple inheritance without
planning on it, so yes?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:21:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I mean, I probably did this refactoring in my head where every
language I'm used to does do multiple inheritance just fine

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:23:40 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

I don't believe you because there is no way to do multiple inheritance
just fine

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:23:54 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There is no way to do real multiple inheritance

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:24:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

This involves abstract classes, and also a class that's being
subclassed because it's lazier than encapsulating it.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:24:42 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Implementation inheritance is a broken concept, anyway

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:25:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I think multiple inheritance of abstract classes makes just about as
much sense as of interfaces, if the boilerplates you do provide in the
abstract classes are orthogonal

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:25:54 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

In this terminology, an abstract class is a class with some but not
all methods implemented?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:25:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:25:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And if it's not you get to have an equivalent to C++'s virtual
inheritance!

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:26:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, that's ture of most multiple inheritance, right? It's just that
enforcing orthogonal at the language level in a reasonable way is
basically impossible.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:26:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, no, that's for triangular inheritance, you'll need
super.BaseClassName

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:27:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Well, it's also decently impossible to enforce because it's impossible
to _do_ because both real classes will have constructors (and maybe
destructors)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:27:22 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

If you have better syntax for delegating methods to an encapsulated
object, then you don't need (any?) implementation inheritance.  Are
there languages where this is the done thing?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:27:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

But with abstract classes, you can actually have no methods in one be
in the other and vice versa.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:28:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, I forgot about constructors.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:28:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(And you can actually enforce this at the language layer if you care)

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:28:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Erm. Aren't abstract classes frequently constructor-equipped?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:29:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Irrelevant, you can only have 1 abstract base class

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:29:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Frequently, yes, but in the specific example I cared about, I think
one did not have a constructor.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:30:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh, Alex, we're talking about the hypothetical "what if we wanted to
support multiple abstract base classes", I think...

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:30:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, I guess you could say "you only get a non-default constructor in
one abstract base class"...

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:30:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's why I said super.BaseClass

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:40:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Also, is it public interface Foo implements Bar or public interface
Foo extends Bar?

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:41:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's always _extends_

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:41:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:41:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_%28Java%29 suggests extends.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:42:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Alex: it's class Foo implements IBar, so "it's always extends" seems
pretty wrong...

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:42:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

OK. That's what I wrote, and it compiles, but I was worried they're
both right and the other was idiomatic, or something

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:43:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

An interface always extends other interfaces? I've never seen an
interface implementing an interface

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:46:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah. So I interpreted that as "in java, you only use 'extends', so of
course it's extends with interfaces", which seemed like a bad rule...

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:47:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:48:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think the rules are:
 * class can't extend interfaces. This doesn't make sense
 * interfaces can't implement interfaces. Because they don't, well,
   implement!
.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:49:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Negotating strategies you didn't learn in 6.UAT, partial list: find
out the other guy's BATNA, and destroy it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:50:20 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What? Yes, that was totally covered. Or perhaps I'm confused because
of 11.011.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:52:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I don't think they really want you to go into the negotiation
exercise with, like, "That's a nice JOBS Act pending in Congress,
it'd be a shame if anything were to happen to it"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:52:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You don't destroy it during negotiation. You destroy it during your
research.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:54:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"Convince the other guy his BATNA isn't as good as he thought it was"
is different from "Actively break the BATNA he was counting on"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 03:55:33 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You're supposed to do the former, 11.011 had lots of exercises on
that; but I literally meant "break it if you can". But it has to be
during research.

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Fri Apr 13 04:08:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 07:25:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

The Java wisdom would be that you're probably overusing in
heritance, because that's a pretty common fault, and should
be using some other kind of composition. THw downside of
that wisdom is that other kinds of composition require more
lines of code in Java.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 07:26:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 3/28. Brooklyn 6/18-20. <tibbetts>

Which is I guess ==keegan, what you want is a language
where delegation has a clean syntax.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 09:27:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

starking:  that's a very interesting idea Geoff!  And I think you
should be able to do that.  However, Alexander's point I think holds
the best:  "Or, you know, you could install a reasonable
distribution."

Unrelatedly, and collecting opinions from those here as examples of
"people I respect in this arena".  And excluding corporations, is
there any sane reason to run a distro other than debian/ubuntu/fedora
anymore?  I recall I *used* to run slackware, but that was in 1998....

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 13 11:37:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

as a get-work-done distro, no (but put RHEL in there). as a
play-with-fun-things distro, a la every distro ever in 1998, sure, why
not.

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Fri Apr 13 11:38:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

We are definitely uoversing inheritance. I blame the guy who wrote all
the Engrish comments.

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:00:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:00:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Did I really forget to open a box this whole time?

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:01:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... it appears to contain a bag full of dirty clothes? wat

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:01:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

! and my spare (laptop,cell phone) chargers

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:03:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... and some checks to deposit?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:38:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I wrote this thing last night, because I'm too distractible to finish
writing code before I make a commit, and too lazy to type out the
whole pathname:

geofft@leveret:~$ cat bin/git-reedit
#!/bin/bash

SUBDIRECTORY_OK=1
. git-sh-setup
require_work_tree

cdup=$(git rev-parse --show-cdup)
mapfile -t files < <(git diff --name-only "${1:-HEAD}"^!)
editor "${files[@]/#/$cdup}"

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Fri Apr 13 12:39:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

git reedit $commit will bring up an editor editing all the files in
that commit. (Defaults to HEAD.)

Class: geofft Instance: work.engrish-comments
Time: Fri Apr 13 14:55:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

So the successful might be the failure one in some cases!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:24:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Did you know that "Living On A Prayer" is about a technical writer?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:24:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"Tommy used to work on the docs..."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:24:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:24:58 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Windmills do not work that way." --Morbo <pquimby>

*groan*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:25:07 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Avocados have the highest fiber and calories of any fruit. <asedeno>

hehe

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:25:09 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Oh! *glee* There's no coming back to life!" --rtm <pquimby>

There's a union of doc-writers?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:26:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yes, it's better than casting them.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Apr 13 15:29:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

^

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:27:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

'Calling SetEnvironmentVariable has no effect on the system
environment variables. To programmatically add or modify system
environment variables, add them to the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session
Manager\Environment registry key, then broadcast a WM_SETTINGCHANGE
message with lParam set to the string "Environment". This allows
applications, such as the shell, to pick up your updates.'

... guys, can we do this in D-Bus? Please?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:27:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Would that work? Wouldn't every program that wants to receive the
updates have to be connected to d-bus?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:28:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Sure, but enough programs are that you can call it good enough

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:28:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is gnome-terminal connected to dbus?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:29:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Apparently. org.gnome.Terminal.Display_0?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:29:28 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: That which does not kill you has made a tactical error. <eichin>

gnome-terminal wouldn't help, you'd need bash...

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:30:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Can a parent process mess with children's environment?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

You should also read the Apple launchd spec to see how they do things.
It is quite sane (and you should talk to glyph about it)

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:30:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Four boxes : soap, ballot, jury, ammo.  Use in that order. <eichin>

no.  (well, not without ptrace :)

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:30:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The bread says...    toaaaaast. <eichin>

(and more privs than mere "parent" these days, I think)

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:30:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

And Fedora is being stupid and disabling ptrace by default. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:31:13 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Omae wa mou shinde Iru <eichin>

but at that point you can just change getenv
in libc, right?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:31:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Disabling ptrace by default is obviously the right answer.

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:32:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

That said, Fedora should be using yama, which lets parents always
ptrace descendants

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:32:35 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

They wrote a stupid SELinux policy and decided it was a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:33:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

> ... SELinux ... decided it was a good idea
I see your problem now.

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:33:35 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You're right, "stupid SELinux" is redundant.

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:33:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Anyway, I thought they reverted that and it's off by default in beefy?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:34:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SELinuxDenyPtrace doesn't look
like it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:35:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/491440/123411c8777d7257/

"As of this writing, it appears that this argument has prevailed and
that ptrace() will be enabled by default in the Fedora 17 final
release."

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:36:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Don, turn it off. <eichin>

ubuntu sets kernel.yama.ptrace_scope = 1 (restrictive) in /etc/sysctl.d/10-ptrace.conf

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yeah, Yama is entirely reasonable. Killing the syscall entirely less
so

Class: geofft Instance: else.msdnq
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:36:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

because it enables you to gdb/strace a child but not an existing
process

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:39:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

$ grep ^import [...].java | wc -l
73

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:39:42 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

what's wc -l on the whole file?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:40:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

1333

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 16:45:10 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

It's not a single file, but...

$ ack --no-group --ignore-dir=cabal-dev/ --ignore-dir=dist/ -G.hs import | wc -l
134

wc -l is 805.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 17:26:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Argh. Not going to be able to finish this by the end of the day

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Fri Apr 13 17:35:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"The invitation was for 'Cyber Media and Cyber Bloggers' (seriously)
and took place at 7am Silicon Valley time -- thus demonstrating that
they are totally in touch with the tech community."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 17:55:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Okay, I think I understand how this code is supposed to work.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 17:56:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Which is, sadly, a different thing from
a) understanding how it _does_ work
b) understanding how to do what it does (so I can use the same
   libraries in another feature)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 18:07:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I think I need more java beans before I can write these Java beans.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 18:11:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... my boss is searching for Warcraft sound effects on YouTube

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 13 19:22:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Dear customers,

wat.

Love,
geofft

Class: geofft Instance: trac.q
Time: Fri Apr 13 20:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"Changed 42 years ago"

Class: geofft Instance: trac.q
Time: Fri Apr 13 20:13:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Has it really been so long since the Epoch?

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:32:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Is there a reason to prefer submitting my tax return online vs.
offline?

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:32:47 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You'll get your return faster if you do it online.

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Winchester Street/Summit Avenue. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

offline is generally free, online isn't always.

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

The website claims it's free if you made less than $57K in income,
which, well, if I could make $57K by being a grad student I wouldn't
be in industry

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

The website claims it's free if you made less than $57K in income,
which, well, if I could make $57K by being a grad student I wouldn't
be in industry

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 18:40:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Ugh, filing forms online requires Flash. Paper it is!

Class: geofft Instance: else.n-c
Time: Sat Apr 14 19:25:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Student Government: If you can't be useful, at least be hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 19:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... your tax refunds are taxable? How... wat

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 19:51:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Hynes Convention Center. <stum>

state refunds are "income"
i don't know why

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 19:51:56 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Dental floss has superb tensile strength. <asedeno>

Your state taxes are deductable, therefore your state refund is income.

Class: geofft Instance: tax.roomq
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:04:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

"A child... am I a child? This talks about a child ages 18-24."
"That sounds like you"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:06:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Zacchiroli 2012! whoooo

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:06:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Zacchiroli 2012! whoooo

Class: geofft Instance: tax.roomq
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:06:52 2012 Host: miranda.1ts.org
From: Keegan McAllister <keegan@1TS.ORG>

Yeah, grad students are explicitly considered to be children

Class: geofft Instance: tax.roomq
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:07:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

So deemed the Childe, as o’er the mountains he
   Did take his way in solitary guise:
   Sweet was the scene, yet soon he thought to flee,
   More restless than the swallow in the skies:
   Though here awhile he learned to moralise,
   For Meditation fixed at times on him,
   And conscious Reason whispered to despise
   His early youth misspent in maddest whim;
But as he gazed on Truth, his aching eyes grew dim.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:07:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

  Option 1 defeats Option 2 by ( 203 -   97) =  106 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 1 by ( 347 -   37) =  310 votes.
  Option 1 defeats Option 4 by ( 310 -   60) =  250 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 2 by ( 354 -   34) =  320 votes.
  Option 2 defeats Option 4 by ( 281 -   78) =  203 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 4 by ( 385 -   12) =  373 votes.


The Schwartz Set contains:
         Option 3 "Stefano Zacchiroli"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:07:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

  Option 1 defeats Option 2 by ( 203 -   97) =  106 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 1 by ( 347 -   37) =  310 votes.
  Option 1 defeats Option 4 by ( 310 -   60) =  250 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 2 by ( 354 -   34) =  320 votes.
  Option 2 defeats Option 4 by ( 281 -   78) =  203 votes.
  Option 3 defeats Option 4 by ( 385 -   12) =  373 votes.


The Schwartz Set contains:
         Option 3 "Stefano Zacchiroli"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:24:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Let's just elect him BDFL.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 14 20:24:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Let's just elect him BDFL.

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 21:35:33 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Starking) State tax refunds are only taxable if you took a deduction
for your state income taxes in the previous year.  (This does let you
shift income around a bit by overpaying state taxes one year and
paying taxes on the refund in the following year.)

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 21:35:33 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Starking) State tax refunds are only taxable if you took a deduction
for your state income taxes in the previous year.  (This does let you
shift income around a bit by overpaying state taxes one year and
paying taxes on the refund in the following year.)

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 22:58:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Sigh, I don't think I can complete this without my W-2s

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 22:59:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Dean Road. <stum>

how do you not have your W2s?

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 22:59:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I'm out of town and they're at home somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 23:00:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Mary's Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

file for an extension, at least

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 23:00:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

and because I'm not a current MIT person I can't get to online W-2s
any more

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 23:00:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I mean, I'll be in town by Tuesday

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 23:01:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

And the IRS address for my n-state region is a PO box in San
Francisco, so I don't really have worries about it not arriving

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sat Apr 14 23:01:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

There's no penalty for being late if you expect a refund.

Class: geofft Instance: tax
Time: Sun Apr 15 01:26:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Square Thru 3 <kchen>

Online tax returns can always be free.  Er, well, I guess federal can
be free regardless of income, and MA can be free if you're a resident
and aren't doing unusual things.  (And I guess federal has some
exceptions too.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 15 04:18:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Pre-decimalization British currency is so weird.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I feel so unqualified to say anything about programming languages and
type safety and stuff (as opposed to a more systemsy approach to
security)

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I feel so unqualified to say anything about programming languages and
type safety and stuff (as opposed to a more systemsy approach to
security)

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(My advisor suggested I try to get a paper out of what I have done
already, and I'm trying to figure out what I can write up)

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

(My advisor suggested I try to get a paper out of what I have done
already, and I'm trying to figure out what I can write up)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:57:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

glibc is weird

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 15 17:58:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

oops, ran 'sl' by mistake

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 15 18:16:22 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

choo choo!

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 19:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

When you say "a paper", do you mean a thesis?

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 19:02:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Because if your advisor thinks that you can get a publishable paper
out of the work that you've done, that should be more than enough for
an MEng thesis.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 19:47:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 19:48:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

I think the other part of it is, having a job, the MEng diploma won't
do much for me (jobs will care more about previous jobs, a Ph.D.
program won't care about an MEng and will keep me for long enough to
have done the MS stage anyway), but a paper will, and the requirements
of a paper are more tangible/defined.

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish
Time: Sun Apr 15 19:50:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is "I feel like I don't know what the
state of the art is here", i.e., "I feel like I should read more
papers", i.e., "I should do more research", which is really an
unsurprising conclusion

Class: geofft Instance: ttants?
Time: Sun Apr 15 20:04:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

venerable
vulnerable

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:29:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... why is it 500ing on me

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:29:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... why is it 500ing on me

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Does it not support accented characters???

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:30:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Last time that happened to me, it was because it was because I was
accessing it as a user that didn’t have an account.

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:32:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

It was working fine for me until I tried to enter an expenditure with
an accent.

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:32:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

IBTSOCS.

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:33:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

And now nobody can get to this instance

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:33:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Downwards! <ezyang>

Probably a utf8 conversion error

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:33:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Yeah...

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

... is Bluechips ... using a web framework?

Class: geofft Instance: bluechips
Time: Sun Apr 15 21:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a POSIX system! I know this! <geofft>

Oh, Pylons.

Class: geofft Instance: vegas
Time: Sun Apr 15 23:31:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Why does the Arc de Triomphe say "A Fury for Flavor".

Class: geofft Instance: vegas
Time: Sun Apr 15 23:31:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Why does the Arc de Triomphe say "A Fury for Flavor".

Class: geofft Instance: vegas
Time: Sun Apr 15 23:32:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why are you in Vegas?

Class: geofft Instance: vegas
Time: Sun Apr 15 23:35:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

We're not really sure.

Class: geofft Instance: vegas
Time: Sun Apr 15 23:36:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I suppose that's traditional.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:10:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I also really dislike what no-fault divorce has done to the sanctity
of marriage, and wish there were politicians who opposed it as
strongly as there are politicians who oppose gay marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:10:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I agree!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:11:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

kinda strongly, actualy.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:11:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Interesting.  How so?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:11:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But I guess Jesus tells us this particular fight was lost centuries
before him.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:11:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_divorce
i,i "No-fault divorce was introduced by the Bolsheviks following the Russian
Revolution of 1917.[citation needed]"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:12:01 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

I only sort of agree with that. I think that there are some marriages
where they really both do want it but are actually just super unhappy
and it's "both their faults", but blaming both of them sucks if they
really do try?

That said, it had a lot of fallout that is bullshit, imo.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:12:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

"You know who liked no-fault divorce?  Communists."

Class: geofft Instance: airport
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Okay why is there a siren

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:13:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

maybe super secret no fault divorce would solve my issues with it.
because knowing that there is no fault divorce as an option has ruined
marriage

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:13:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

The strawman argument here is Britney Spears' 24-hour marriage

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:14:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

at first, i thought you were exaggerating something, so i googled....

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:15:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

No really, that's a standard argument as to why gay marriage _doesn't_
destroy the sanctity of marriage, because Britney Spears already has.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:15:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

i,i Newt Gingrich

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:16:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

More seriously, if we are going to care about marriage as a political
community -- and I'm not sufficiently libertarian to believe we
shouldn't -- there should be some point to it, there should be some
social goal that the tax benefits, additional rights and privileges,
etc. are designed for, just as much as every other tax benefit and
additional privilege conferred by the government encourages some
specific social goal.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:17:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

e.g., you get deductions for having kids because kids are good for
society, not merely because they're expensive. If they were bad for
society, it would be in our interest to just let people deal with the
expense. (It's not a huge motivator for or against kids -- nobody goes
"You know what, I'm going to have a kid and love it and raise it and
care about it and make sure it succeeds in life so I can get a tax
deduction" -- but there should be a point to things the government
does.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:19:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<After Albus Dumbledore's death at the hands of a Death Eater at the end of the spring term, > <xavid>

I sorta take the opposite tack.  I think that the practical benefits
of marriage (taxes, immigration, etc.) are negative on marriage,
because they encourage people to get married who wouldn't otherwise.
I don't think trapping more people in unhealthy marriages would
actually help.

Class: geofft Instance: airport
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:19:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"May I have your attention please, this is the airport operations
center. The cause of the alarm you heard has cleared, and all
operations have returned to normal. If you have left the area you are
free to return."

That's reassuring.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:19:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

xavid: I agree and I also think that no-fault divorce harms it, too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:20:07 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

The immigration benefit would be cruel not to have, though.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:20:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I don't believe marriages that can end in divorce at will and without
penalty do anything to benefit society, so I see no reason the
government should recognize what amounts to simply long-term
relationships

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:20:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Severus Snape, one of his trusted allies, was made Headmaster.> <xavid>

So would it have been better if Brittney Spears had to stay in her
24-hour marriage?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:20:44 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Geoff: Because marriage also comes with visiting rights
and property implications that you might actually want in a long-term relationship.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:21:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Yeah, I would totally be much more okay with not
incentivizing/recognizing marriage at all than with recognizing
easily-divorceable marriage, and I realize that removing no-fault
divorce mans you have to figure out how to get people out of bad
marriages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:21:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Yeah, I would totally be much more okay with not
incentivizing/recognizing marriage at all than with recognizing
easily-divorceable marriage, and I realize that removing no-fault
divorce mans you have to figure out how to get people out of bad
marriages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:21:15 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

But see also de-incentivizing marriage, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:22:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I guess the other argument is I believe that people should be able to
be in a gay, poly, etc. relationship, or in a long-term close friend
situation that is not marriage, or whatever, and get those same
rights. (If I get sick or am imprisoned, I don't really see why
nobody should be able to visit me because I wasn't clever enough to
get married first.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:23:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

xavid: It would have been better if she knew going into it that she
couldn't get out, I think, or that it would have been legally and
financially onerous to do so.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:23:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

but that aside, it would have been better if the government didn't
have to care about her frivolity.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:23:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

No, she shouldn't have ever gotten into it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:24:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The events of the war outside Hogwarts did not leave the school untouched, > <xavid>

I tend to think that many of the rights associated with marriage are
useful, but would prefer them to not be tied to marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:25:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<with much interference from the Ministry,> <xavid>

I mean, there are always going to be people getting into dumb
marriages.  I'm not convinced that making life suck more for the
people who do is worth reducing the number of people who do.  But this
starts getting aweful utilitarian.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:25:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

I think dual fault marriage would be better than no fault--is that a
thing?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:26:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I... to pick another strawman example, does "there are always going
to be people getting into dumb gangs" means that the government
should be light on gang violence?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<making attendance mandatory for all school-aged wizards and preventing muggleborns from attending.> <xavid>

I guess I see having to prove fault as making things really hard for
people in abusive marriages, though I don't know what the standards
for fault and evidence standards are.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:26:52 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

I have a hunch that if you just fault both people as "we made a mistake"
is less harsh than single fault and less desirable than getting into it
in the first place.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:26:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

If it's one gang shooting another, and they're both consenting
adults, why do we believe there's an obligation for the government to
provide justice?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:27:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<In addition, two Death Eaters, Amycus and Alecto Carrow, were appointed as teachers.> <xavid>

I mean, gang violence obviously hurts unrelated people.  Brittney
Spears getting married frivoulously doesn't obviously hurt anyone
else, as near as I can tell.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:28:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The ensuing school year was host to many changes, with an unprecedented number of student deaths.> <xavid>

(If there was actually a way for consenting adults to shoot each other
safely, with no risk or damage to others, I think I'd be okay with
it.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:28:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It hurts the taxpayers if it costs money.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:29:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Several students rumored to be working with Death Eaters were killed surreptitiously by unknown parties.> <xavid>

(But I also don't think consent would be able to be reasonable in that
case.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:29:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<In addition, Draco Malfoy, a Slytherin seventh-year, managed to kill four students with the unforgivable curse Avada Kedavra before being apprehended.> <xavid>

Sure, but IIRC Brittney's marriage was too short to affect her taxes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:30:00 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Legal marriage is a declaration that you're going to pool resources
with one other adult and zero or more children.  I think there's value
in recognizing that.  I don't know that it really helps for the
government to make it extra-hard to get out of that arrangement.
(It's bad for children when parents get divorced, but it's not
necessarily any better for them if the government maintains the legal
fiction that they're still pooling resources.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:31:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Headmaster Snape exiled the two Carrows from Hogwarts in response to their apparent support for this behavior,> <xavid>

There are definitely marriages where divorce helps the children.  I've
seen at least one where I don't think either party would have been
"violating the marriage contract".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:31:56 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The libertarian notion that the government should stop recognizing
marriage is an interesting intellectual exercise, but no more than
that; it's not likely to happen in our lifetimes.  The elimination of
no-fault divorce is more likely to happen, but still unlikely. 
Government recognition of SSM is an issue in actual play.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:32:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

xavid: No, but government employees were (presumably) involved in her
marriage and divorce, and the taxpayers bore the cost of that. i.e.,
if there were no no-fault divorce, presumably the courts would have
less work to do.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:32:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Although that claim is not actually borne out experimentally:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_divorce#Methods_for_bypassing_the_showing-of-fault_requirements_for_divorce
which is ... something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:32:57 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Thought experiment:  How do you feel about no-fault
divorce after a decade vs. no-fault divorce after six months vs. after 24-hours?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:33:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I think I'm most okay with six months out of those, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:34:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Mostly because after 24 hours is too soon to go "crap, that was dumb"
-- you had some idea going in, and ten years is too late: it's been
working for the last ten years, it's your own fault it's not any more
(or it hasn't been working and you should have dealt with it).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:34:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<and promised to do all within his power to protect the students while they attend Hogwarts.> <xavid>

Yeah, that bit's amusing.  I think if two consenting adults want to
get a divorce, it'll be hard to stop them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:34:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I'm quite aware this won't work out well in practice; I think I more
care about the existence of politicians who oppose it than the actual
prohibition of it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:35:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<The next day, a team of Death Eaters and Ministry of Magic officials invaded Hogwarts, seeking former Hogwarts professor Remus Lupin, known werewolf.> <xavid>

Your "ten years" reaction seems pretty cruel.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:35:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

> (If there was actually a way for consenting adults to shoot each
> other safely, with no risk or damage to others, I think I'd be okay
> with it.)

I'm... not actually opposed, but I don't want them doing it on my
roads, while drinking my water, and being futilely operated on by my
single-payer healthcare.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:36:09 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

== except for the water bit

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:36:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Unknown students and Hogwarts's recently-reactivated defense systems combined to repel this invasion, with three Death Eaters confirmed dead.> <xavid>

==kcr

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:36:29 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

That also raises an enforcement issue.  You can't prove that your
legal shooting contract was forged or agreed to under duress after
you're dead.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:37:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I actually kind of philosophically believe that a marriage or
relationship is something you should be putting effort into make work,
and "oh hey, we don't love each other any more" / "oh hey, I found
someone else" / etc. is a poor reason to terminate a marriage. (Good
reasons to terminate after ten years would be one person becoming an
alcoholic or drug addict, an abusive relationship that was too abusive
to be dealt with for ten years, etc., but those aren't no-fault
situations.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:37:43 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I mean, self-defense raises the same issue (and is topical, even), but
there's societal value in allowing self-defense.  Not so much in
allowing adults to shoot each other.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:38:25 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

That's a moral position, though.  What's the social value in the
government telling people to try harder to make things work?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:38:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I'm probably convinceable that there are reasonable reasons to
terminate a marriage after ten years that are not the result of
wrongdoing / violation of the marriage contract / abuse by one (or
both) sides

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:38:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

I oten wonder to what extent I am willing to work to coerce others
into following my beliefs about how they should act.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:38:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Other developments include the Society for the Preservation of Elvish Welfare's success in freeing all House Elves in Britain, > <xavid>

They might not be no-fault situations, but proving "he is verbally
abusive to me" in court is both hard practically and hard emotionally
on the victim.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:39:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I would be happier with governments you could buy into, I think

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<in recognition of the completion of the temporary time of servitude established in the treaty, written by Peter Parnassus, which ended the Elven Wars.> <xavid>

But, one of the reasons I like the (imlausible) idea of getting
government to do only civil unions and leave marraige as a religious
thing is that then religions could make their independent decision of
what's moral/reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:39:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Although that has obvious class lock-in issues, and for some reason
this weekend has got me thinking about class issues.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:41:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Yeah, sure. I do want the end of no-fault divorce as an actual thing,
not a legal thing, and acknowledge that not having to legally prove
fault is convenient. (I'm not actually convinced a church would be
better-qualified, but it's not an unreasonable compromise... for
instance, churches generally do some form of pre-marriage counseling,
and I think I don't want the government doing that)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:41:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Hogwarts also made major developments in space travel and animagus research.> <xavid>

And I've seen no-fault unhealthy relationships, and if you've tried to
make it work for years and have failed, I think a divorce is healthier
than trying to tough it out or separating but maintaining a fiction of
marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:56:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I guess my bigger complaint is, as someone who believes gay marriage
is a good thing and no-fault divorce is a bad thing merely given us
because our hearts are hard, why can I not find a politician who
visibly agrees with me, even if it's not a political goal of theirs?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:57:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

-> SFO -> work

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:58:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

Even ignoring politicians being a shitty sample of the actual
population, I think that you are (and I guess correlation I am) an
oddity in the population statistically speaking.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 11:58:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<has lingered unlauded in the annals of Wizarding British history.> <xavid>

I feel like, culturally, no one cares about divorce these days.
Opposing divorce would alienate a bunch of people and not get you any
benefit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 12:01:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

In fairness, geofft is talking about no-fault divorce, not all
divorce.  
Though I suspect one's political opponents and their supporters in the
media/blogs would be sure to gloss over the distinction....

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 12:03:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

I thought the Times article about the U.K. was kind of charming.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Mon Apr 16 12:03:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/world/europe/divorce-british-style-fault-finding-as-fine-art.html)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 13:49:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

In which case this is a proxy for "culturally, why is opposing gay
marriage and abortion acceptable and opposing divorce not"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 13:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

"Because Republican primary voters are far more likely to want a divorce than
they are a gay marriage or an abortion"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 13:54:47 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ding!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 13:54:47 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ding!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 13:56:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

cf.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/08/red-states-lead-nation-divorce/41797/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:05:05 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

To be fair, some of them probably do oppose no-fault divorce.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:30:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But we have plenty of anecdotal examples of anti-abortion folks
getting abortions and going "Well, but I'm different". Why can't we
oppose divorce and let people who get no-fault divorces say that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:30:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(Which I would actually be okay with -- "divorce is bad but sometimes
necessary" is an entirely consistent position to me)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:32:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Your premise in your first zephyr their is that of a hypocrit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:32:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

s,\.,e./

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:32:58 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I AM so good with the spelling today.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:35:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

> Why can't we oppose divorce and let people who get no-fault
> divorces say that?

I... what?  If you're going to propose moral enforcement via policy, you owe it
to the world to obey the prescriptions you propose to inflict upon others.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:35:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

> Why can't we oppose divorce and let people who get no-fault
> divorces say that?

I... what?  If you're going to propose moral enforcement via policy, you owe it
to the world to obey the prescriptions you propose to inflict upon others.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:37:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It would be hypocritical to say "[no-fault] divorce is always bad and
impermissible" and allow it sometimes. It would not be hypocritical
to say "[no-fault] divorce is generally bad but sometimes the right
call", but nobody's saying even that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:37:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It would be hypocritical to say "[no-fault] divorce is always bad and
impermissible" and allow it sometimes. It would not be hypocritical
to say "[no-fault] divorce is generally bad but sometimes the right
call", but nobody's saying even that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Right, but what you are/were proposing is a political movement against it, á la
the political efforts against abortion and gay marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Right, but what you are/were proposing is a political movement against it, á la
the political efforts against abortion and gay marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:39:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It would be hypocritical for an anti-abortion person to get one and feel that
that they could continue saying everyone else shouldn't be able to get one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:42:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I think it is a self-consistent, if subtle, position to claim that
$act is sometimes (but rarely) morally justified, but that the legal
system is ill-equipped to judge when it is and isn't, and so it
should be banned across the board, since opening loopholes would only
encourage people who are not morally justified in doing $act to do
it, since they fall under the loophole (or think they do).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:43:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

And that this is a greater harm than we are causing in the rare
fraction of cases where we've made life harder for someone who
desires to morally do $act.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

That thoroughly depends on whether the fraction of cases is, in fact, rare.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:43:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

cf. the War on Drugs

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:43:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I am not making *any* claims at all about whether this argument
applies to any particualr $act.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:44:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

Right.  I think that's a valid position to take.  I also think that
it's far too nuanced for mainstream politicians to sell.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:44:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Right, but this is Zephyr, so I get to make pedantically nuanced
arguments and then stand back and watch the fallout.

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:45:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Speaking of Zephyr with a capital Z, what's the license on the Zephyr
Programmer's Manual? (Can it be incorporated into like the barnowl
wiki?)

Class: geofft Instance: else.complete-tangent
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:45:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(or the zephyr.1ts.org wiki, I guess)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:45:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(On which note, back to lurking)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:52:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

==nelhage, except I also think that it's wrong and such actions should
be permitted across the board because it's better that ten guilty
persons escape than that one innocent suffer, which is at odds with my
original position. So I will reconsider it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 16 14:52:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(But I believe that both positions are not hypocritical, and that it's
possible to go "I know this is illegal and I advocated for it, but in
my case it's not morally wrong, so I will do it")

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 16 15:07:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 16 15:07:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Life would be easier without hardware or customers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 16 15:08:00 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The most poisonous fish in the world is the orange ruffy. Everything but its eyes are made of a deadly poison. The ruffy's eyes are composed of a less harmful, deadly poison. <asedeno>

Have you tried virtualizing the customers?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 16 15:08:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Apr 16 15:30:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Okay, how is firmware/ anything remotely resembling free software

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 16:53:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

okay, sleeping four hours is kind of catching up with me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 16:53:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Had a bunch of coffee and a sugary donut (and lunch). I can feel my
heart beating, but I'm no less sleepy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 16:57:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... I'm actually kind of uncomfortable with how much I can feel my
heartbeat

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 16:58:15 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

where can you feel it?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 16:59:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

everywhere, mostly my neck

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 17:03:29 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

So, your pulse, really

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 16 17:03:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 16 19:39:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I have trouble calling myself anything other than "geofft"

Class: geofft Instance: meta
Time: Mon Apr 16 20:18:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

http://unmaintained-free-software.org

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:21:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I wish "currency" didn't make people think of money

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:21:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I wish "currency" didn't make people think of money

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:22:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

As opposed to?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:23:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That idea has currency with me

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:24:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:24:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"currentness"

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:33:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Not for use with aquariums and all other water-related products <yoz>

Maybe you're looking for currence.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Mon Apr 16 21:33:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But what is the, oh, currence of that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:09:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... this laptop comes with Realtek, Broadcom, and Intel wifi nics _at
the same time_? Please tell me I'm misreading this

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:09:24 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

fear

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:11:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Why is my income as calculated by adding up my direct deposits from
last year in awk as reported by my bank's CSV statements $4000 less
than my income as claimed on my W2s?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:11:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... oh, because my direct deposits have tax withheld, derp

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:11:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Fire & Weave <kchen>

Also other things like retirement contributions, insurance, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Cross Back <kchen>

Oh, although I guess if you were a grad student, that doesn't apply.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:12:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I think I had MIT insurance for at least one term last year

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:13:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As Couples Scoot & Weave <kchen>

That doesn't come out of your paycheck, though.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:13:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(Yes, I am currently doing my taxes and psychic-debugging Linux
wireless problems for our customers at the same time, today is a
wonderful day)

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:13:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Oh right.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:14:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

Do you have to file in 2 states for 2011?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:14:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I shouldn't, I was only in Massachusetts

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:45:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

http://www.mokafive.com/

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:45:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I realize what you're trying to say, but.

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

I... don't.

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

i was with you until byod

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"Bring Your Own Device"

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:51 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

weird.

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's actually a term

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:46:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I "Display 'Til You Drop"

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:48:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Anyway, what they're trying to say, I believe, is "most BYOD programs
have your company take over / monitor everything you do on your
device, and if it's lost or whatever they do a remote wipe of
everything including personal stuff, which sucks, we don't"

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:57:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

All those hands make me really goatse nervous.

Class: geofft Instance: lol-marketing
Time: Tue Apr 17 18:57:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

There are ... on the front page ... seven hands?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 19:24:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

why is my boss running around shooting everyone

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 19:24:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also why don't I have more darts

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 19:24:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Because ninjas are better than rockstars, duh.

Class: geofft Instance: zipcar
Time: Tue Apr 17 20:08:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Apparently they call you when your battery runs low.

Class: geofft Instance: zipcar
Time: Tue Apr 17 20:08:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also, apparently I have now completed the life experience of
jumpstarting a car.

Class: geofft Instance: zipcar
Time: Tue Apr 17 20:08:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

aww

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 21:50:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I wish I were better at SVN.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 21:51:54 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Whales are twice as intelligent, and three times as delicious, as humans. <asedeno>

With practice, you can git better at it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 17 21:52:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

ITYM with practice, you can get better at git

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:00:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Apparently you can't file online if you don't have _last year's_ AGI
in front of you?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:01:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Anyway, apparently I'm late on my taxes. We'll see what happens. ->
doing other things.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:01:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Left Swing Thru <kchen>

You should file for an extension if you haven't already.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:02:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain Reaction, Star 1/2 <kchen>

Although I guess I'm not sure if there's a difference in being one day
late with the extension request and more than that.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:02:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Right, you need the AGI to file for an extension

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also that. Like I can just file for real tomorrow.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:02:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

ah, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:03:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(You need identification info to file _any_ tax form)

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:03:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Oh well, on to my thrilling life of crime where I get busted for tax
evasion.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:04:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(where by "tax evasion" I mean "the IRS holds on to the $800 it owes
me for an additional day")

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:04:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

AGI?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:05:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Adjusted Gross Income

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:05:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

oh, if they owe you money, I think there might not be any penalties,
but I'm not sure.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:06:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(basically, in this context, "a field from your tax form that requires
almost all the inputs and determines almost all the outputs and therefore
is almost equivalent to having your entire tax forms from last year")

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:07:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is having a refund a consequence of only working a quarter of the
year, or do normal full-time employees still tend to get them?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:08:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I worked the entire year!

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:08:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, but at fairly different rates of pay, right?

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:08:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm more asking about myself, really.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:08:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I think I got refunds in past years.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:09:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:09:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

Oh hey, that zephyr from you (adehnert) was unauthentic.  Do you know
what happened there?  That's happened to me a few times.  I had
thought that it might have been during ticket renewal, but the time in
klist didn't match up.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:10:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, no. I've seen that occasionally, but never figured it out.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:10:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Having a refund is basically a consequence of not doing anything
interesting financially other than having income, and therefore not
having anything taxable other than income. The form you fill out
about tax withholding when you start a job goes to lengths to avoid
you having "too little tax withheld"

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:10:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I saw his first one unauth'd too.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:11:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sets In Motion <kchen>

The 3:04 one?  That one looks authentic to me.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:11:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Er, his 3:08 one.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:11:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Tag Your Neighbor & Spread <kchen>

Oh, that's the one I was referring to.

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:12:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

e.g. since I was (through 2011) a dependent and have no dependents, I
think I end up claiming about zero deductions on that form, and so I
can't reduce my rate of withholding from the default, which is fairly
generous (for the IRS's coffers).

Class: geofft Instance: taxes
Time: Wed Apr 18 03:19:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I cannot complain about paying penalties,
since I believe my taxes are (now) too low, and I can't thinnk of
another way to get the IRS to accept money from me

Class: geofft Instance: taxes.d
Time: Wed Apr 18 09:38:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I've seen my zephyr.zephyr krb4 ticket expire and have
barnowl/libzephyr not try/succeed (didn't check which) to get a new
one, a few times.  I want to say that at least once I even had a
krbtgt.ATHENA.MIT.EDU ticket that was unexpired as well (though I'm
not sure how that would have happened); I definitely still had a valid
krb5 tgt, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:21:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Augh inbox

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:21:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I don't entirely understand why my inbox is full of so much stuff when
I first check it and doesn't really do anything during the day

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:21:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I don't entirely understand why my inbox is full of so much stuff when
I first check it and doesn't really do anything during the day

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:32:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also I should get around to doing a Precise build for BareMetal

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:32:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"mostly because it'll take me until Q to figure out how all our code
works"

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:41:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

What

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:46:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:42:22 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's a little dry.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:46:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I do like the stick-figure Romney though

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:42:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:43:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

I think it's funnier if someone keeps forwarding you links to
dead-serious "who said it?" quizzes.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:43:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

It's apparently related to
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/520957/MITT-ROMNEY-OR-MR-BURNS.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:47:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Clearly I am missing out in life now that I've trained my mom not to
forward me anything that has "FW", "FWD", or "fwd" in the subject
line.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:43:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

==kchen, there it is.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:44:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I had seen that quiz before, but definitely didn't find today's XKCD
funny.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:44:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I guess I can sorta appreciate that it's intended as a dry parody of
that genre, but it really didn't do it for me.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 13:45:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

@@oblig(sabattical)

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

kchen: Aha, thanks.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:47:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I _really_ need a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:48:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Oh, me too.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:49:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Lies.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:50:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

My hair actually doesn't do the dirty-hacker-ponytail thing. I would
be totally okay with it if it did

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:50:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

My hair actually doesn't do the dirty-hacker-ponytail thing. I would
be totally okay with it if it did

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:50:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But it kind of goes... out. and up. Not back

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:50:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But it kind of goes... out. and up. Not back

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:51:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does that less when it gets longer and the weight pulls it down.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:51:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's pretty long...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:51:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's pretty long...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:51:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Pics...

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:51:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"Oracle also cites JRR Tolkien's Elvish as an example of a language
that is used outside of its creator's works."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:53:00 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

But Java doesn't have a 'friend' property.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:54:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

This distro is full of reasonable people

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 18 14:54:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Who are you and what have you done with Debian.

Class: geofft Instance: meeting.q
Time: Wed Apr 18 15:21:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"What do the docs say?"
"We didn't doc this..."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Apr 18 15:21:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, uh, my hair certainly had a pretty terrible looking
middlinglength.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 15:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I don't... really understand how REST is a Ph.D. thesis.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 15:59:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 15:59:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top.htm

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:02:02 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"This chapter introduces and elaborates the Representational State
Transfer (REST) architectural style for distributed hypermedia systems"
meh?

Class: geofft Instance: precise
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:02:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: precise
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:02:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"this doesn't look like Debian from 2006"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:08:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you go back far enough, you can say that about anything.  My uncle
got his Ph.D. here for an implementation of Logo in Lisp or something
like that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:09:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

50% of PhD theses have below average impact. People are
still getting PhDs for dubious work every year at MIT (not
to say your uncle's work was dubious, I don't know)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:09:45 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I think in 2000 it might have been a totally credible thing
to codify and clearly state. I bet it gets more citations
that most theses.

Class: geofft Instance: sic-transit-gloria-drepper
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:33:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/492624/d5db519f5ebcdaa6/

Class: geofft Instance: sic-transit-gloria-drepper
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:34:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not sure I'd have used "gloria"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 16:53:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... Apport just caught an uncaught exception in apport-retrace

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 17:10:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Uh, crap. Does the product we released yesterday work at all?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 18 17:53:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Answer: no. augh

Class: geofft Instance: wq.fail
Time: Wed Apr 18 18:54:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"Oh shame on us... we don't really have a Get Involved page. Of course
we'd like you to get involved into our project, but we just didn't
have the time yet to explain how."

Class: geofft Instance: wq.fail
Time: Wed Apr 18 19:01:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Which projects? (And that's reasonably common)

Class: geofft Instance: wq.fail
Time: Wed Apr 18 19:06:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Apache httpclient

Class: geofft Instance: wq.fail
Time: Wed Apr 18 19:09:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 21:39:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I should go become a schoolteacher at some point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 23:34:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Bah, I should decide if I'm booking tickets to visit Boston, because
of the JetBlue deal

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 18 23:34:57 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

FWIW, looks like Virgin and United are offering too

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Apr 19 00:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Work is under a 30-minute walk from the Caltrain station. I guess I
was just really lost and/or walking slowly when I determined it was
an hour

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Apr 19 00:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Work is under a 30-minute walk from the Caltrain station. I guess I
was just really lost and/or walking slowly when I determined it was
an hour

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Apr 19 00:31:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

And this is consistent with it being a ten-minute bike ride if I bike
fast, since my Cambridge apartment was a ten-minute bike ride and a
30-minute walk from campus.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Apr 19 01:42:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... wow, I didn't quite rewrite how muc code I hadn't gotten around to
even prototyping

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Apr 19 01:42:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I read "muc code" and screamed a little inside before realizing it
was a typo.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Apr 19 01:42:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

This will be a good amount of work.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Apr 19 01:43:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Haha, thankfully there is zero Jabberin' involved here

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Thu Apr 19 01:43:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (same four) Centers Square Chain Thru <kchen>

Maybe he hasn't written MUC code yet since he hasn't gone to Munich to
work on his thesis.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:33:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

<3 livegrep.com

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:36:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I wish I knew more about Active Directory

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:36:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No you don't!

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:37:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No you don't.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:37:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I think today's totally random question is "huh, joining a machine to
a domain automatically makes it a keytab, how does that work"

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:37:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Deep dark magic that no one knows.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:38:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It works because you need bits to join a machine to a domain.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:38:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(I bet we actually have code to do this in our product, come to think
of it, I just have never needed to care about that code)

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Joining a machine to a domain is basically creating a kerberos principal
and ldap entry for that computer.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It'd be kind of nice to give my Linux boxes keytabs, and presumably
AD exposes a self-service interface for it. Can... ooh, can I tell
Samba to domain-join my machine?

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A side effect of this is that the machine account password gets
created and stored, and having that is enough to let you generate a
keytab.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, you can, if you have bits on AD.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:44 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

FWIW, I found thix xkcd hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

how.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

net ads join

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:39:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also, wait, when did my Windows VM's kvno get bumped to 3?

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:40:00 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Mostly because I've seen several "quizzes" in this genre

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:40:05 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

and they're all really easy

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:40:17 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

and their creators / the people forwarding them around are acting as if
they're not.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:40:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Not only that, but once you've joined it, you can tell samba to make
you a keytab. I think you may even be able to add
servicePrincipalNames, too.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:40:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(to get host/machinename, nfs/machinename, etc)

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:41:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I hate that I know this.

Class: geofft Instance: xkcd
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:41:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I haven't actually paid enough attention to politics (or the
Simpsons) for the Mr. Burns quiz to be really easy for me.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:41:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Honestly, in my past experience, the main advantage of getting my
linux machine running samba joined to AD was to get DNS.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:42:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... er?

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:43:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, once you have an AD entry for your machine, you can "net ads dns
register" to get a DNS entry for your machine's current IP added.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:44:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Hm. Well, whatever's providing our DNS, it's not doing that, because
my Linux boxes are on DNS without effort

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:45:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I guess you can also get a host/ principal for kerberized ssh to your
machine, but you have to disable libnss-mdns for that not to fail
hilariously.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:45:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(As are my non-domain-joined Windows boxes, which... should be whining
about activation and genuine Windows, honestly, why aren't they?)

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:45:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Yeah, that's why I wanted to domain-join this box.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:46:15 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Trial period is up to 180 days these days

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:46:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, find an account that has AD bits, do sudo net ads join
-Uthataccount, enter password, watch it work.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:46:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(er, after setting up your smb.conf)

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:47:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Define AD bits? I haven't needed anything more than my regular mortal
account to do this (and I'm not even sure I needed that).

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:47:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Whatever bits are needed to create new entries in AD. I don't know
exactly what privileges that amounts to; the docs all recommend you
find a Domain Admin or similar.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:48:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Right, I assume no one's made me a domain admin, and domain-joining my
Windows machines from the GUI has worked

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:49:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

In that case, sure, try it with your account. It can't hurt to try.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 02:52:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Anyway, I was VPNing into work for some reason... oh right, check
email and push a build if I got review

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 03:09:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

No code review. -> sleep -> wake up early (for me) and push a build
via VPN if the server team reviews the code once they get in

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 03:10:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Installing the VPN on my laptop was either a brilliant idea or a
terrible one.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 12:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Keegan McAllister is... THE BYTESWAPPER.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 12:33:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Whine whine dear server team review my code already

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish/else
Time: Thu Apr 19 12:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I still lack an _intuition_ for why parsers are hard to write
securely. I understand that they are and I've seen examples, but it
feels like I should have some conceptual understanding of "good
parser" / "bad parser" without e.g. tracing through all the cases

Class: geofft Instance: thesisish/else
Time: Thu Apr 19 12:38:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

People tend to think "oh, this is simple" and do it in an ad-hoc
fashion instead of starting from a grammar. Then they end up with
security problems and subtle bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Thu Apr 19 18:35:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

ttants: gdb, ghci

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Thu Apr 19 18:35:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Running :i is not going to tell me about this symbol.

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Thu Apr 19 18:36:22 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: VNV Nation – Entropy
 <rnjacobs>

ttants: ghci gfci

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 19:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... customer just shipped us a laptop that wasn't working with our
stuff, plus two NICs for it in envelopes with handwritten labels.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 19:07:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

This is the worst Christmas ever.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Ugh, I think I stripped this screw. I hate stripping screws.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Ugh, I think I stripped this screw. I hate stripping screws.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:30:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

(I think my lines of code count for today is still zero, incidentally)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:33:02 2012 Host: ET-ONE-FORTY-FOUR.MIT.EDU
From: 2 7 95348713 <cesium>

Have you tried chomping them instead?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:33:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why are you playing with hardware?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Because wireless drivers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:36:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also argh customers this screw was way overtightened

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:49:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Clearly you need an intern.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:51:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

We are in fact hiring

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 20:51:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

We are in fact hiring

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:11:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Starking a bit, my boss unscrewed it in like ten seconds :(

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:18:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Perhaps :i will fix your makefile

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:21:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

> I hate stripping screws.
"I hate robbing banks!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:40:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I think wannabe-netbooks are my least favorite laptops ever.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:41:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

What is a wannabe-netbook?  An ultralight laptop?  Or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:42:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

A laptop that's almost tiny enough to be a netbook but not quite

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"it doesn't really fit on both knees, but it's two big for one"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:42:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

*too

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:45:29 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

*shrug*
Not sure if my X61s would fall into that category.  I like it because
it's light and therefore extremely portable, but unlike a netbook it
has a reasonable-sized keyboard, a non-shortscreen display, and a real
processor.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:45:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

But it is small.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:48:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

This is an X130e.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:48:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's supposedly targeted at the education market, but it feels way
flimsier than my kidspc.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:49:47 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It's a red-topped thinkpad :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:50:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

This one is black-topped.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:50:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But it has a non-Thinkpad keyboard, which is _werid_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

That's not even shaped like a ThinkPad should be shaped.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:53:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It looks like it's trying to be an old model of  Macbook Pro, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh, and it has a chiclet keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:54:25 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: a little mouse, with gloves and a parka on, just waiting for the light to go out <eichin>

oh, the word you were looking for was "heresy"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:54:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A chameleon imitating a mail daemon often delivers scrolls of fire.
 <rnjacobs>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:54:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It doesn't really look at all like any Mac I can think of.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:54:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Unless you mean Powerbook?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:55:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I guess it's a little rounder than I initially thought. Sure, let's go with that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:55:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Anyway, the screen is annoyingly tiny.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:56:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Also the trackpad is incredibly dumb

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:56:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"It's mostly just the WXGA that's the problem"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:56:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Like it slopes somewhat in at the top, and also you press down on the
trackpad itself to click

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:56:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But you can't drag! (Or maybe that's a Linux bug.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:57:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... Actually, looking at the gallery for the X130e, I really do find myself
thinking "wants to be a MBP when it grows up"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:57:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

huh, it's got buttons for the trackpoint but has a clickpad

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:57:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:59:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

The trackpoint seems really out of place on that machine.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:59:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Also, clickpads on Linux are a sad story. A Canonical guy was going off
about touchpad makers for like 15 minutes at work today.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 22:59:50 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

The industrial design on that looks like someone told the
designer "make sure to make it ugly enough that no one buys
it unless they can't afford better"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:00:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

At that price, I don't know...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:01:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I have no comment as to why our customer chose to buy this laptop

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:01:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I guess $550 isn't actually cheap for a PC laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:01:22 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/2? NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Though it is cheap for a thinkpad.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:01:41 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that some humanoids are nonetheless quite human.
 <rnjacobs>

I feel like it's in line with the old R series.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:02:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It looks like the evolutionary link here:
http://www.puppylinux.com/baby-laptops/hacao_classmate_pc.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:02:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: now these points of data make a beautiful line <eichin>

"don't cannibalize the real thinkpads"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:02:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

The R series was chunky but at least in a classy way.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:03:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: softer than the rain
 <rnjacobs>

I meant price

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:03:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

The R series was far less Wrong than this.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:03:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

In mostly-related news, how does SourceForge suck so much?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:03:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 19 23:06:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Because it's affiliated with Slashdot?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:04:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

[stark] At least the X100e's keyboard looked funny but
felt like a thinkpad.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:23:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's amazing how much worse uncooked broccoli is than cooked.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:23:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

It's amazing how much worse uncooked broccoli is than cooked.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:24:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Broccoli gets better with szechuan sauce.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:24:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Broccoli gets better with szechuan sauce.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:24:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Broccoli is totally reasonable with alfredo

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:31:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I'm slightly tempted to take the rest of this salad home and stir-fry
it

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

But stir-fried lettuce sounds pretty abhorrent.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri Apr 20 00:45:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Seeing the 101 under me makes me so glad I'm not driving

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:24:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... do I waant to smell like courage? or swagger, or champion?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:24:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Don;t look at the label, just open one of them and see which you like.

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:24:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

... Matterhorn?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:24:51 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

er, one of them at a time

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:26:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

What's the difference between "pure sport high endurance" and "same
day high endurance"?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:26:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

What... is "anarchy for him"?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:27:26 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I love how the crazy bewildering variety of shower products is present
for both genders. It's like the opposite of Sueeve.

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:28:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

.... "evenly gorgeous"? "endless kiss"?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:28:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Oh hey I wandered over to the ladies aisle I bet.

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:28:39 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

This is why I said to STOP READING THE LABELS and SMELL THEM

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:29:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Just buy Old Spice. Anything could happen.

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:29:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

They're all old spice!!!

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:29:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

*snrk*

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:29:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

I like to look for "unscented" when possible :-P

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:30:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

"Rub this over the parts of your body that need to smell like courage.
Especially your delts, quads, haunches, heart and big toes."

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:32:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

What does courage smell like?

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:32:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Smell me after a shower one day, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:32:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

.... Okay why is there a playboy bunny on this thing of deoderant

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:37:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

waaaat, what is this "razorless cream shave"

Class: geofft Instance: mens-shower-products
Time: Fri Apr 20 01:37:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Likely terrible acid burn

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 02:35:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

rRaw broccoli and some sort of dip is totally reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 02:35:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: I slide between the waves and ride the frequency alone. <lapentab>

I actually prefer raw over cooked/steamed/etc. I hate it when it's all
mushy.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 02:38:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Maybe this is just bad broccoli. Although I don't think you can ...
poorly cook ... uncooked broccoli.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 04:34:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Killer bunnies can be tamed with carrots only.
 <rnjacobs>

Lightly blanched is delighful.
Really thin young spears are also amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: broccoli
Time: Fri Apr 20 04:36:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a desperate shopper might pay any price in a shop.
 <rnjacobs>

I'm bad at reading time stamps, it seems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 05:04:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

(starking) That's how you get to be a people manager.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 05:04:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

"So, what are your qualifications?" "I can unscrew even REALLY TIGHT
screws within about ten seconds."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 15:37:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

I keep forgetting about food truck Fridays.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 15:38:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

And I ate way too much for breakfast (despite being really hungry when
I woke up) and they'll disappear at 3 :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 15:43:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: hurry up please its time <geofft>

Dear customer, "hold down shift to get into the GRUB menu" is just not
that hard.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 16:24:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

.... wugh. I can't tell if auto-generated D-Bus binding Qt crap is
better than hand-written D-Bus binding C goop

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 16:24:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

.... wugh. I can't tell if auto-generated D-Bus binding Qt crap is
better than hand-written D-Bus binding C goop

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 16:24:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

They're both pretty awful-looking.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Apr 20 16:53:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

http://bugs.debian.org/669648

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:32:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

IMAP over SPDY

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:37:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

No, what you really want is IMAP over SSP.

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

No, I want git over SSP, and maildirs inside git.

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:38:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Or ... do you want SSP-over-git!?!

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:38:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(Answer: no)

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:39:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

SSP over darcs!

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

If you type two commands into different windows in your screen session
inside mosh at the same time, they should totally be able to commute.

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea-ever
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:39:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Unless they don't, in which case we'll use up exponential amounts of
network bandwidth trying to resolve the situation!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:43:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

ugh, my Google ads are now full of not-quite-competitors. cloud this
and BYOD that and ...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:43:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Bring Your Own Distro...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:44:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

Device.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:44:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:44:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

It's the enterprise buzzword for "crap, our employees are putting
their personal devices on the corporate network and we can't say no
fast enough"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:57:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

I wish I understood sysfs better

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:58:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

Like what is up with "/sys/class/rfkill/rfkill1/device/device/device"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 17:58:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

i,i alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 18:57:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

OH! I took my work laptop "home" once when I was still crashing at
HUA! I was beginning to get really confused how NetworkManager on my
work laptop was stealing SSIDs from my personal laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 18:59:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

I know I don't understand NM/gconf, I just didn't think I
didn't-understand it to that level

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:01:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I am not sure sysfs is meant to be understood by anyone other than
maybe mjg59.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:01:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

It certainly seems that way

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:03:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Or at least, someone else who can hold, in their head, in parallel,
the phsyical wiring of their motherboard and the mirroring tree of
drivers.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:16:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

Debian GNU/xv6

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:35:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

I'm sure there's a good reason our first git project so we could all
learn git involves submodules.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:36:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Of course there is; to improve morale upon the impending switch to
CVS.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

Also TIL `git submodule sync`. And taught my boss about `git push .`.
And we found a bug in gitk, and got annoyed at the EPEL (?) package
not coming with the http protocol by default.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:37:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Redwood City. San Francisco 9 PM - 9 AM. <geofft>

So, basically, it's like GROKLAW for TORRENTS!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:38:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

<3 'git push .'

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:38:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Brick and Mortar Solution for Funeral Homes. <geofft>

... new zsigs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:39:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Microblogging Service for Ex-Convicts. <geofft>

Well, I wanted to update his local "master" branch because gitk was
showing it, but I didn't actually want to check out master because I
don't know how to say "git checkout
where_the_superrepo_says_I_should_be"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:40:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

But I feel like I should comment that "because we hate ourselves" is
not actually a "good reason".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:40:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Distributed Social Network for Small Businesses. <geofft>

I'm going to blame Evan, because I can do that and he can't stop me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:41:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Ah, I see you've mastered the art of blaming the guy who just left.
Excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:43:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Make three envelopes.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A jQuery Plugin for Ponzi Schemes. <geofft>

Also on the "I blame Evan" front, why is my boss retweeting njess

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

But with a huge "< DON'T DO IT" on the end, so

Class: geofft Instance: nm.q
Time: Fri Apr 20 19:48:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Pandora for Funeral Homes. <geofft>

static void
poke_wireless_devices_with_rf_status (NMClient *client)

Class: geofft Instance: openssl.ldots
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:33:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Recommendation Engine for Presentation Tools. <geofft>

https://twitter.com/#!/mdowd/status/192986878138523648

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:46:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Mapreduce Query for Celebrity Gossip. <geofft>

I'm confused that even Lady Gaga of all people asserts that it always
starts with a boy and a girl. (And a huh and a game, I guess.)

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

i hear music is an industry

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:47:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Groupon for Collegiate Jewish Women. <geofft>

"Lady Gaga transcends industries"

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:48:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

which song is this?

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A ManPacks for Christian Families. <geofft>

"Love Game"

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:49:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Cloud Storage Provider for The Army. <geofft>

The one involving huhs and disco sticks.

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:49:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:49:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I'm not remembering my Lady Gaga lyrics very well

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:49:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

i am disappoint

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:50:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

especially considering you had a room near mine ...

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:50:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

eh, that was a while ago

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:51:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A LinkedIn for Ugg Boots. <geofft>

I can see you staring there from
Across the block ith a smile on your mouth and your hand on your huh
The story of us it always
Starts the same with a boy and a girl and a huh and a game

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:51:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I've since filled my brain with other useless facts

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:51:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I think "with a person and a person" probably sounds less catchy

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Wordpress for Baristas. <geofft>

And girls don't get huhs, or at least not in the same way as guys.
And don't have disco sticks either. But it's Lady Gaga, she's not
incompetent at lyrics, I'm sure she can figure out how to make it
work.

Class: geofft Instance: heteronormativity
Time: Fri Apr 20 20:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Wordpress for Baristas. <geofft>

And girls don't get huhs, or at least not in the same way as guys.
And don't have disco sticks either. But it's Lady Gaga, she's not
incompetent at lyrics, I'm sure she can figure out how to make it
work.

Class: geofft Instance: biking-home
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:07:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A WeedMaps for Cracked iPhone Apps. <geofft>

What's that smell? ... oh right, it's 4/20 and I'm in San Francisco.
What's that smell? ... oh right, it's still 4/20 and I'm still in San
Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: else.!sipb
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:08:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Product Curation Service for Sysadmins. <geofft>

Y'all are doing a remarkably good job of mixing this conversation
everywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:10:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Android App for Christian Families. <geofft>

Cold-brewed coffee + chocolate milk is not nearly as awesome as you'd
expect it to be.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:11:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What about cold brewed coffee + chocolate milk powder?

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:11:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jack Hagerthorpe) (Gryffindor <codetaku>

hot tea + hot chocolate is awesome and you should all try it (but I
don't like coffee in the first place, so no opinion on mixes involving
it)

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:12:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Conversion Funnel for Traveling Abroad. <geofft>

As in cocoa powder? Or hot chocolate mix? Or something else along the
lines of milk powder?

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:13:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Digital Magazine for Sorority Chicks. <geofft>

I think I've tried to do hot chocolate from mix (made with milk) +
drip coffee, and it was appropriately caffeinated and warm for a cold
winter all-nighter, but it wasn't particularly amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:13:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: You have the right not to send email.
Every email you send can and will be used against you. <eichin>

sounds like dorm-room mocha :)

Class: geofft Instance: coffee
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:14:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hot chocolate mix. that was my standard morning coffee, when i worked
in the south bay.  provided much needed caffine, and calories.  but
i'm someone who pours like half a jar of sugar and cream into my
morning coffee, so...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:25:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(starking) Bring Your Own Distro is amazing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Recommendation Engine for Presentation Tools. <geofft>

That was our old business model! http://lab.mokafive.com/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:33:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A Distributed Social Network for Sanctimonial Artifacts. <geofft>

Hrm, that URL doesn't work...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Apr 20 23:34:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, Basically, It's Like A New Social Platform for Traveling. <geofft>

Oh huh, we shut that down somewhat recently, apparently. I totally
saw it within the last few weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 21 00:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

... wait, liftM and fmap are the same thing? How did I not realize
this before.

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Sat Apr 21 00:49:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

SPICE comes with a browser plugin???

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Sat Apr 21 00:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I guess so does VMware View.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:24:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

today is an unproductive day, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:25:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

(went home "early" by which I mean "before 7" because I wasn't doing
anything at work, and now not doing anything here.)

Maybe I should just watch some TV or read something and then go to
sleep...

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:32:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

'Unlikely side note: If you select the default ALSA device to be
"pulse", you need to make sure that PA doesn't try to open the
"default" device for its own audio output (otherwise the universe
will explode... just like if you type "google" into Google...)'

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:33:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(I hate pulse)

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Yeah well. I'm trying to do something about this "if you try to play
MIDI output via the Timidity daemon via the ALSA backend via the Pulse
ALSA device from Rosegarden, which has an embedded jackd, then the
jackd locks out timidity" bug.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:36:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ohh.  

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:37:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hrm.  What do you think is the problem?  Who's holding on for too
long?

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:37:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

http://bugs.debian.org/578859

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:38:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I see.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wq.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:38:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

(I'm also hoping to push out someting resembling a more competent
timidity package before precise's NoReallyWeMeanItFreeze)

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:39:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Guys, it's almost 4/21, can I get my fresh air back plz

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:51:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh? Do you have allergy problems or something?

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:53:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

No, I just don't muhc care for the smell of weed smoke

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:53:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

No, I just don't muhc care for the smell of weed smoke

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:53:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... oh.

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:53:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... oh.

Class: geofft Instance: outside.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 01:55:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

A painful hypothetical allergy to have, in this city.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 02:09:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

-> sleeep

Class: geofft Instance: itsthisforthat
Time: Sat Apr 21 10:51:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Hm, a FLICKR for PRESENTATION TOOLS sounds like a good idea, actually

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 11:02:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

knee still feels funny. "Maybe I've been biking too much"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 11:05:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Kind of want to spend all day at this Haskell hackathon at Mozilla,
but I have laundry and work stuff to do.

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Sat Apr 21 12:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Okay, I think I actually washed more clothes than I have a place to
store (because I just unpacked a box). Wonder if I can assemble this
Ikea dresser before the dryer cycle is done

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 13:21:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Blah, apartment needs more caring (there are dishes to be washed and
my room still has boxes to be unpacked). Probably not going to BayHac
is the right answer :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 13:43:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

... this dresser looks complicated.
"Anyone want to help me put together Ikea furniture"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:31:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Huh, somehow fit all that in a suitcase. Which means I no longer
urgently need to assemble my room.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:31:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for BARISTAS! <geofft>

So I could
x) be responsible, clean up my room, clean up the apartment
y) be responsible, go to this hackathon, get thesis work done

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:32:50 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

flawless victory!

(now go play solitaire for three hours :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for PETS! <geofft>

Relevant considerations are that I kind of want to be at MIT next
weekend -- so if I'm doing apartment stuff I should do it now -- but I
kind of also want to go talk to my advisor if I'm in town -- so if I'm
doing thesis stuff I should do it now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:36:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I'd say unpack, and do thesis stuff another day (tomorrow?)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:36:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Admittedly I'm your housemate, not your advisor (;

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Haha. Well, I think I only have a couple hours free tomorrow. But
maybe it's better to do unpacky stuff in the evenings?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Also since a good part of unpacking is assembling furniture, maybe I
should see if I can con people into helping me, and nobody's around
right now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:39:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The longer you put off unpacking, the more fucked your environment
will get. Do it now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:39:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

== glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:39:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:41:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

OTOH furtniture assembly. Make you a deal: Call Elliot and get a time
to be helped with furniture assembly. If you can't find him by phone
(or maybe price), then assume now is as good as any other time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:41:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for PETS! <geofft>

OK, I guess I'll get rid of boxes and stuff and get to the point where
there's a place for furniture to go if it gets assembled, and then
head back in the evening and see who's around.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:41:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd totally help with furniture assembly if I were out there. Putting
together IKEA stuff is fun; it's playing Carpenter Hero.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:41:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I'm somewhat worried I can't actually do this by myself, but maybe
I'm wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:42:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

phone callss!!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:42:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

afk a while

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:43:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That being said, actually read the entire instruction booklet first,
or you'll end up doing something silly.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 14:46:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Asheesh, did you end up hearing back from the landlord as to whether
we have a phone jack/line?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 15:16:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I didn;t I suggest calling him. I'm co-running a workshop or otherwise
would. 415 225 2667. He thinks yes ,though, so feel free to order
Sonic.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Sat Apr 21 15:49:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

"Don't Stop Believing" and "Carry On My Wayward Son"? Dude, give me
time to warm up

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 15:51:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for MODELS! <geofft>

I'll call him

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Sat Apr 21 16:05:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

b

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:49:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/11wf/

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:52:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Okay, what are my authentication options?
- Site-specific username and password
- Client certificates
- Negotiate
- NTLM
- OpenID
- Facebook Connect
- Google account
Am I forgetting anything?

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:52:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

All of these kind of suck, OpenID possibly the least.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:53:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is OAuth a kind of openid?

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:53:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is OAuth a kind of openid?

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

SAML?  Yadis?  BrowserID?

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:55:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

SAML as in shib? Sounds somewhat painful, and I don't have a
particularly convenient IdP.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:55:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

OAuth is the authorization/delegation to OpenID's authentication.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:57:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Yadis sounds like so not what I want

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:59:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

... are our downstairs neighbors having band practice?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Apr 21 18:59:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

"Okay, I no longer am worried about our stereo system or Rock Band
being problematic"

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 19:07:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

BrowserID does actually sound like what I want

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 19:16:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Except in order to understand BrowserID I need to understand
Webfinger, and in order to understand Webfinger I need to understand
XRD, and in order to understand XRD I need to competently wage a
flamewar about FOAF

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Sat Apr 21 20:22:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Whoa, FOAF lives on in BrowserID?!

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 20:42:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

... dammit. Ping anyone at ET who has a minute?

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:20:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

"My life would be better if I were less dumb"

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:22:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am familiar with this problem
Oops, I should get off Zephyr and read more about accounting and go to
bed
Doing so (:

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:22:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

I'm sure there's a systematic technical solution to reduce my
effective dumbness (possibly based on GTD?) but that requires effort.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:27:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

The other technical solution is to just aquire wealth at a fast enough
rate that you can make problems go away. I hear this is less virtuous
though.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:38:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The hedgehog maintains its function even when tipped over by a nearby explosion. <eichin>

the important thing about GTD is that it helps
you recognize that "mental clutter" is actually a thing, and a source
of overhead.

(the "use money to make problems go away" works pretty well, but
 then the next threshhold is "needs money-plus-talking-to-people" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:40:36 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's C4I Systems) <eichin>

(overhead as in "dumbness = cleverness - overhead" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

> The other technical solution is to just aquire wealth at a fast
> enough rate that you can make problems go away. I hear this is less
> virtuous though.

I was curious as to how that approach would play out, so I
investigated it. The problem at hand is that my formal clothes are in
all likelihood still at ET and I want to wear them tomorrow around
noon. The three throw-money-at-the-problem solutions that occur to me
are to get them overnighted to me, to buy new clothes (which is what
I'm going to do), or to have someone buy me new clothes. FedEx and UPS
don't appear to do overnight shipping from Boston to SF on a weekend,
and having someone buy me clothes without me being there is difficult.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

So I would need to jump up to the next bracket of throwing money at
the problem, namely being able to charter a private flight plus a
courier to pick up my clothes in Boston or having a trusted tailor
that has already taken my measurements several times and knows what
fits me, and one assumes that anyone capable of employing those two
solutions wears these kinds of clothes all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:44:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

You could have someone come measure you where you happen to
be and then make clothing appear that fits. However
property tailored formalwear may not be achievable in less
than several hours.

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:45:06 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me! <eichin>

depending on the formality level, rental places
deal with some amount of panic, though you may have to call around...

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:45:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

(While I'm not interested in the tux, the tux in question was
actually acquired shortly before closing the night before a concert,
so I've done that before...)

Class: geofft Instance: unpacking
Time: Sat Apr 21 21:46:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Yeah, ==tibbetts. I actually think this is not a problem that can be
solved particularly more elegantly by having more money than the BART
fare plus couple hundred dollars I intend to go spend on it. -> afk

Class: geofft Instance: shopping
Time: Sun Apr 22 00:54:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

great success!
Except I was off by about an order of magnitude in how much I was
going to spend :(

Class: geofft Instance: shopping
Time: Sun Apr 22 00:55:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Also, as it turns out, it is entirely possible to bike with a suit in
a bag. You just need a messenger bag that happens to have a
convenient loop near the shoulder, and then you can hang it off that
and across your arm.

Class: geofft Instance: shopping
Time: Sun Apr 22 00:55:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

...a suit is a couple thousand dollars?

Class: geofft Instance: shopping
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:01:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Or just a garment bag with a shoulderstrap.

Class: geofft Instance: shopping
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:01:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I bought a suit plus nice shoes (which I've been needing for a while,
my old nice shoes were way less nice than my regular shoes so I'd been
using those), which came out to more than $1000. I guess that's not an
entire order of magnitude

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comments.q
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

>> Why all the man attending Simon Peyton Jones talk are bald ?
> Oh, come on. They're *functional programmers*. There can be only
> one answer: their sheer heat of intellect has burned their hair
> away.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comments.q
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:33:07 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

But that's a side-effect of what should be a pure computation!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:34:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for FARMERS! <geofft>

Waitwaitwait, Level 3 Communications and L-3 Communications are
different companies??

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 22 01:58:51 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

L3 is the old Loral.  My dad used to work for Loral and then they went
bankrupt or something, he lost all of his retirement savings with
them, and within a few years, they were L3 and were making lots of
money again.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Apr 22 02:02:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

mind=blown

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Apr 22 02:03:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for PILOTS! <geofft>

Oops, past my bedtime, -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Apr 22 02:03:52 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

mind=more blown

Class: geofft Instance: linux.changelog.q
Time: Sun Apr 22 11:22:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Kent Yoder (1):
      crypto: sha512 - Fix byte counter overflow in SHA-512

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 22:43:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

waaaaaaaat

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 22:44:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

we add an autogen.sh that, if debian/ exists, symlinks in
config.{sub,guess} and does some muckiing around in debian/tmp???

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 22:44:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

upstream includes a kanji_convert function?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:18:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Bah, ftpmaster still doesn't accept 3.0 (git) packages, right?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:18:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

So I want to ... format-patch my commits into debian/patches?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:19:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

that... could work..

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:22:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for BEER! <geofft>

is there a thing for this? should I go read up on git-buildpackage or
git-dpm? Should I just keep pretending git doesn't exist?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:45:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

-> sleep? Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Apr 22 23:46:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

I wonder what to do once I wake up at 5 AM. I guess "finish cleaning
my room" is the right answer, but "sleep in another hour or two and
get to work" will be incredibly tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Mon Apr 23 09:54:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Come on guys...

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Mon Apr 23 09:54:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Come on guys...

Class: geofft Instance: google-is-evil-ism
Time: Mon Apr 23 10:00:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for PANDAS! <geofft>

... wow, I don't think even I would have made the argument that
Mozilla is effectively bought out by Google and would have been better
off refusing the money

Class: geofft Instance: google-is-evil-ism
Time: Mon Apr 23 10:01:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

(in the thread about whether Debian should accept money from
DuckDuckGo)

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Mon Apr 23 10:10:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Thanks, mherdeg!
mtherdeg.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 23 11:01:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I feel like I've become the USB thumbdrive version of a crazy cat lady

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Apr 23 11:07:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

OM NOM NOM ROMNEYNOMICS

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Mon Apr 23 12:53:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Ugh, the Catholic League

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Mon Apr 23 12:55:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Really increasingly tempted to try to found a loud Christian
organization that complains about reasonable things (like taxes being
too low and divorce being legal)

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Mon Apr 23 12:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

and is totally okay with gay marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 12:58:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

.... does this laptop have no LEDs? even indicating whether it's on??
how is it a thinkpad

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 13:19:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

augghhh WHY AM I GETTING REPRODUCIBLE MEMORY ALLOCATOR CORRUPTION IN
GRUB fml

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 13:20:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 13:57:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Woo, people in 2008 complaining about NetworkManager, just what I
wanted to read

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:11:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

When do I get focus-follows-eyes?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

oh geofft

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://www.gazehawk.com/

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:30 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Dilithium crystals are rare indeed.
 <rnjacobs>

Does your computer have a camera in it?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://www.gazehawk.com/

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:30 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Dilithium crystals are rare indeed.
 <rnjacobs>

Does your computer have a camera in it?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Not actually what you want, but is the tech to do what you want)

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:12:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Not actually what you want, but is the tech to do what you want)

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:13:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I wanted focus-follows-eyes a few weeks ago! bbaren suggested a 1k
gadget that is a mouse that does eye-tracking...

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:13:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

rnjacobs: I think so, actually. It's a laptop with the lid closed

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Really I want focus-follows-head, my monitors are far enough apart
that you can easily tell where I'm looking without it being a
particularly hard machine vision problem

Class: geofft Instance: money
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:19:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for BEER! <geofft>

Wait, where did my money go. I seem to not have enough money to pay
off my credit card

Class: geofft Instance: money
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:19:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

I guess I paid rent this month?

Class: geofft Instance: money
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:20:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

... Why is there a foreign transaction fee on my credit card? ... Oh
right, Gandi.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:21:12 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is the most intelligent sphere. <asedeno>

I've heard it as "focus-follows-focus"

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

What

Class: geofft Instance: csail-related
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:28:48 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

And here you thought CSAIL wasn't people-friendly

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:31:00 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A senseless waste of perl. <eichin>

I've seen eyetracking done as an opencv demo.  but
there's something to be said for "focus follows attention" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:39:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I think I secretly just have a very low base opinion of people

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:39:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

But I have a correspondingly low base opinion of myself, and so
therefore don't actually exhibit it as misanthropy most of the time?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:40:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

because my base opinion of others is slightly higher than my opinion
of myself?

Class: geofft Instance: network-manager
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:47:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

What... how... this defies the laws of physics, how did you ever think
this code would work

Class: geofft Instance: network-manager
Time: Mon Apr 23 14:47:58 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that some shopkeepers consider gems to be family heirlooms.
 <rnjacobs>

It @i{is} networkmanager.

Class: geofft Instance: network-manager
Time: Mon Apr 23 15:00:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for BARISTAS! <geofft>

static gboolean
is_wimax (const char *driver)
{
        /* FIXME: check 'DEVTYPE' instead; but since we only support
Intel
         * WiMAX devices for now this is appropriate.
         */
        return g_strcmp0 (driver, "i2400m_usb") == 0;
}

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:30:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

wait it's 2:30, how have I not had lunch yet

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:36:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

[stark] "ThinkPad" doesn't mean anything anymore; it's just the label
Lenovo puts on something when they want to sell it to businesses.  See
also: ThinkPad Android tablet, ThinkPad netbook (X100)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:37:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> doesn't mean anything anymore

I dunno, the x220 I'm typing on now and the x520 ksplice bought me
seem pretty Thinkpaddy.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Right, some of them are, some aren't.  That's my point.  Some of
Lenovo's non-ThinkPad machines are also quite good.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:40:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also wtf is an x520?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:40:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, t520

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:40:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I haven't owned anything besides an x-series in years"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:45:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Me too, until my X200s died and I got a refurb T61 for $250 at
Microcenter.  It's in new condition; I think I got a great deal.
I might buy the X230 when it's out, or stick with this for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:45:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Wow, great deal.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:46:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Five years ago it would have been insane to pay anything for a laptop
designed five years prior.  But... computers have stopped getting
better

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:47:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That is a crazy great deal.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:48:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is your T61 4:3, or did they stop that back at the T60? Is it 64-bit?
Does it have VT?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:49:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm guessing it's cheap because it doesn't run Windows 7 very well...
It runs xmonad and vim just fine

Class: geofft Instance: oh-right
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:49:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

PUPPY

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:51:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Eating someone's face counts as diplomacy, right? <eichin>

I've been intermittently checking out x61s on ebay :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:55:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The screen is 1280x800, so it's physically 16:10 or something close to
that.  It is 64 bit.  The CPU is a Core 2 Duo T8100, which has fpu vme
de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36
clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm
constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl aperfmperf pni dtes64
monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 lahf_lm ida dts
tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:56:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I'm not sure what VT refers to in your question.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:56:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Hardware-assited Virtualization.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:56:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

VT = "svm" or "vmx"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:56:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The latter of which you have.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:58:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Oh, I assumed VT was an Intel branding term (like VT-d?) and was
confused about whether it was the same thing as VMX (which yes, it
does have).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:59:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, sorry, the last time I was buying hardware with this sort of
thing in mind (before it was ubiquitous), AMD hadn't put out SVM yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 17:59:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think VT-i is vmx and VT-d is the iommu stuff

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 18:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

To be fair, I did upgrade RAM and install an SSD before I turned the
machine on.  It's not as good a deal with the stock 2 GB and crappy
HDD.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 23 19:45:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

oh right, don't SAK init

Class: geofft Instance: monica-lam.q
Time: Mon Apr 23 20:58:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

"I was in France... It was such a good trip... That's why I'm a
professor..."

Class: geofft Instance: /r/christianity
Time: Mon Apr 23 22:24:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

... did a church's youth minister just ask a question and get answered
by his own pastor who didn't know he was a fellow Redditor? what

Class: geofft Instance: /r/christianity
Time: Mon Apr 23 22:24:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

... did a church's youth minister just ask a question and get answered
by his own pastor who didn't know he was a fellow Redditor? what

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Mon Apr 23 23:17:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

"A reference implementation server is running on port 443 of
www.google.com."

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Apr 24 00:47:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Huh, I wonder if I broke my wired network card somehow.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Apr 24 00:47:12 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...physically?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Apr 24 00:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Yeah. At some point when I was in Vegas it stopped connecting to the
wired ethernet (but I blamed the crappy hotel network
infrastructure), and I don't think I've tried it since then. It's not
connecting to work right now

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Tue Apr 24 00:48:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

and I just did try this cable with something else. I think.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Apr 24 03:26:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

my brain and my body are not on the same sleep schedule.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Apr 24 03:27:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

my body tried to fall asleep on the train home. my brain wants to keep
coding

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:40:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Huh, 9223372036854775807 and 18446744073709551615 look way less
familiar to me than they should.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:41:34 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

These are (signed, unsigned) 64-bit integers?

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:41:41 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Er, max

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:48:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Do not put metal in microwave <yoz>

9223372036854775807 0x7FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 0777777777777777777777
0b111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

18446744073709551615 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 01777777777777777777777
0b1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:49:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Do not use screwdriver or any sharp tools <yoz>

Oh, you said "less"

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 15:51:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yeah, I never learned the 64-bit magic constants.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Tue Apr 24 16:40:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

I'm somewhat more familiar with 2^53-1.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:06:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for SURGEONS! <geofft>

... drive.google.com has to have the worst web design I've ever seen.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:06:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

If you click on "Features", it looks like it's scrolling up,
Bootstrap-style. But if you look closely it's not!

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:13:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What "scrolling up" are you referring to? It seems to just be toggling
between two tabs for me

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

It _looks_ like it's scrolling.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:16:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I don't see what you're talking about?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:16:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The Features page can be scrolled after clicking it?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:17:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I... think geofft's referring to the top of the Features page being
the same "Google Drive. Keep everything. Share anything." with
blue-tinted background, so it looked like that bit scrolled up?
There's also the yellow box with the logo, though it doesn't move by
the same amount. I don't think it's that strong an effect; I only
noticed it because I was looking for it.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:17:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Right. The features page looks like the home page, just scrolled up a
bit.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:17:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

(If you have decent vertical pixels, like I do on my rotated monitor,
the effect is way more pronounced)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Tue Apr 24 17:57:35 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No. Not without incident. <eichin>

hmm, maybe it looks more like that if you have
flash installed.  (also, only the top right hand picture is the same;
everything else is different)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 24 18:05:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Grah, why am I getting random X crashes on my _development desktop_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 24 18:05:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

I expect these on, like, BareMetal machines

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 24 18:42:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

.... and now my external hard drive is acting up?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 24 18:46:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Why did my mouse die

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Apr 24 18:46:16 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Audioslave – Shadow On The Sun
 <rnjacobs>

Cheese isn't actually good for mice.

Class: geofft Instance: work.overheard
Time: Tue Apr 24 20:41:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

"You lie like a rock!"
"I think you mean rug?"
"Oh."

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:12:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for COUGARS! <geofft>

I became totally okay with alcohol and drugs once I realized how much
I was using caffeine to alter properties of my brain/body and that it
would be hypocritical to object to other ways to alter properties of
one's brain/body simply because they were not sold at Starbucks.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:13:20 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

That is a mature perspective, but you should still not do
crystal meth.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:14:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"alcohol and drugs" is a stupid phrase that needs to die.  (Sorry.)

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:15:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

"alcohol and illegal drugs"?

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

"recreational drugs"? I'm not really sure what a good term is here,
most people don't think "recreational drugs" includes alcohol

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:15:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There are plenty of legal recreational drugs besides alcohol

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:15:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

are you objecting to drugs being hooked in with alcohol because they're
illegal?

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:16:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm objecting to the social attitude that alcohol isn't a "drug"

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:16:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

oh, it's a fantastic drug!

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:16:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And so for exapmle, Everyone Knows you can't have alcohol prohibition
(we tried that and it failed!), but drug prohibition is a fine idea
(and doesn't even need a constitutional amendment?)

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:16:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

It's actually pretty reasonable to distinguish alcohol and
marijuana from "hard drugs", in that your body has
signficant evolutionary adaptations to alcohol and
marijauana that it doesn't have to other things.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:17:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Which adaptations are those?

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:18:11 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

canabanoid receptors and the ethanol metabolic pathways

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:18:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Your body also has very significant evolutionary adaptations to
psilocybin mushrooms, fwiw.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:19:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Can you be more specific?  Just because there is a receptor that
reacts to a drug doesn't mean you have "adaptations to that drug"
(otherwise we would include ~all drugs)

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:19:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

There is fossil evidence of protohumans with sorted psilocybin
mushrooms in large quantities before the advent of modern agriculture,
for instance.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:21:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Also, I agree with you, I've heard people claim that marijuana,
psilocybin, and alcohol are all things that we have evolutionary
adaptations to, that we don't for instance, with amphetamines, but I
also ==Keegan, just because there is a receptor I don't *think* that
means that there are "adaptations" but this is wading dangerously
close to me talking about biology, which is always wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:21:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, if you want to talk about drugs with ancient history of use,
there are quite a few.  Alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, opium, psilocybin
mushrooms, amanita mushrooms, etc

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:22:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The idea that there's a cannabinoid receptor which is activated by
both endocannabinoids and Δ9-THC doesn't seem different from the idea
that there's a 5HT_{2a} receptor which is activated by both 5HT and
LSD

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:22:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(But I would buy that humans *have* evolved to deal with cannabis, you
just need to argue it from another direction)

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Terence McKenna has a whole theory about how humans co-evolved with
psilocybin mushrooms and this enabled a shift in consciousness
producing civilization etc.  But he's kind of a crackpot and smoked
like his own weight in DMT

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:25:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I don't have a good citation for coevolution with cannabis
that isn't stoner pseudoscience, though I feel like I had
one in the past.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:25:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I don't have a good citation for coevolution with cannabis
that isn't stoner pseudoscience, though I feel like I had
one in the past.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:25:50 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/human-and-cannabis-coevolution
is pretty good for stone pseudoscience and cites a lot of
its sources

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:26:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ah.  You seem to know the same details as I might post, so no need in
me parroting them back.  I am also familiar with Food of the Gods, but
have not read it.  Half because I'm lazy and don't read, half for the
crackpot reasons mentioned above.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:27:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Right, Botany of Desire had a bunch on this.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think any binary classification of "hard drugs" vs "soft drugs" is
going to be pretty inaccurate.  Like anything, there are benefits and
harms on many axes

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And any sensible drug policy will need to have responses other than
"complete prohibition" and "available freely at the corner store"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:40:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Right, I should register to vote

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:40:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

"Anyone have opinions on Romney vs. Obama?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:41:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'm still voting for Huntsman.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:41:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

In basketball my money is on Obama

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:41:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I'm still disappointing Bachman's out of the running

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:41:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I'll vote for her 2014

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:42:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Basketball?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:42:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

In polo, I'd say Romney has it though.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:43:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I was humourously suggesting that if the contest were a
game of basketball, the advantage would be with President
Obama.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:43:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Ah. But that doesn't really influence who I should be supporting.

Class: geofft Instance: distributions@l.fd.o
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:44:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Nobody loves your distro. Nobody loved your distro back when you
advertised it several months ago, nobody loves it today. Sorry. Go
work on Debian or Fedora or something.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:45:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I argue voting for Huntsman (or whomever you actually support)
is the rational choice because, given the minimal impact
any one vote has on the presidential election, the major benefit of
voting is the feeling of satisfaction and civic duty bestowed upon
the voter. This is maximized by expressing one's true preferences
and reduced by "holding one's nose and pulling the lever."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:47:04 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

as a greedy person, it's totally maximized by voting for the one you
like most out of candidates that might win

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:47:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for BEER! <geofft>

I mean, if I haven't missed the registration deadline for the primary
and want to be a Republican, I will happily vote for Paul, but it's
somewhat unlikely I'll get to do that in the final election.

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:48:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

> But let's also speak more controversially: there is strong evidence
> Shakespeare [18] and Jesus [19] were also really, really high. The
> evidence for Jesus was that the holy "Christ/Messiah" anointing oil
> that was used during his baptism and for the healing miracles and
> duties of him and his apostles. 

Okay this is not a trustworthy scientific article but thanks for
playing

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:48:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

Considering that you're not voting in a swing state, I agree with
voting for whomever you like/agree with most regardless of their
chances of winning.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:52:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

Think of it like this:  Obama is going to win California regardless of
how you vote.  If you consider your vote's marginal effect, it's not
going to change who wins the state, but it will add some marginal
amount of legitimacy to whomever you give it to.  

Class: geofft Instance: ctl
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:53:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did they get to Descartes yet???

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:55:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

I do encourage you to research the Congressional and local races
though.
When I lived in CA I didn't always agree with my Representative, but
she seemed competent enough in enough issues that I cared about
(technology/privacy) that I voted for her.  (This was Eshoo, though
you likely have a different Rep--I don't know who the current rep for 
SF is.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:55:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

I do encourage you to research the Congressional and local races
though.
When I lived in CA I didn't always agree with my Representative, but
she seemed competent enough in enough issues that I cared about
(technology/privacy) that I voted for her.  (This was Eshoo, though
you likely have a different Rep--I don't know who the current rep for 
SF is.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:58:27 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, 
and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not 
commit suicide. - John Adams <aatharuv>

Nancy Pelosi is our rep (or at least the rep for most of SF). 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:58:27 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, 
and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not 
commit suicide. - John Adams <aatharuv>

Nancy Pelosi is our rep (or at least the rep for most of SF). 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 21:59:53 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: The war instance is intended primarily for coordination between major
geoplitical powers.... <aatharuv>

Just double checked, and it turns out that Nancy Pelosi isn't actually my
rep. (I'm in the part of SF that's in Jackie Speier's turf.)

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:00:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

right, the districts are weird.  (Like many districts.)  Speier was
the name I was trying and failing to remember.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:10:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for PETS! <geofft>

Yeah, sure, the question is whether I actually agree with Obama or
Romney more.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:11:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Obama is pretty darn centrist. what do you disagree with
him about?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:11:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

You... what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:11:53 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Or rather, what do you disagree with Obama about where
Romney is closer to your position?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:12:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

And whom you think is more competent.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:12:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Competence is a tricky one to vote. I'd be willing to allow
that Romney is more competent, but if he's doing to do
wrong things that isn't a desirable characteristic.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:13:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

I don't think I disagree with him on much. Competence is relevant, as
does having not actually thought hard enough about this question.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:14:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I'd be curious to know essentially ==tibbetts, what is it you suspect
you might disagree with obama on and agree with romney more, such
that you are not-jokingly actually seriously considering voting for
the latter.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:15:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I don't know! I just feel like it would be intellectually
irresponsible to go "of _course_ I agree with Obama, all my social
circles think Republicans are evil".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:16:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i don't think all republicans are evil or all democrats are good.
everything is nuanced.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:17:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I don't think all republicans are evil!  ``I'm sure I probably know a
few republicans without knowing it, and I probably don't think
they're evil.''

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:17:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(somewhat kidding)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:19:24 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

actually i know many republicans who have principles reasons for their
beliefs, and we share the principles but not the conclusions. and it
hurts me because we are fighting each other at times instead of
pushing towards what we both believe in. other hand is the common
issues we are sometimes pushing at together.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:19:35 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

principle"d" reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:23:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Looking at their websites (which are more similar than you'd
expect...), Obama has a shorter list of "issues", but where he does, I
think I agree with those over Romney's

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:24:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Most of Romney's issues @b{seem} to be "you hate obama.  i hate
obama.  we hate obama.  obama is a do nothing president!  i will do
more than nothing."

Which... I fundamentally disagree with.  He might actually have more
issues than this, but I have no idea what they are

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:25:48 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, as my friend said tonight, he wasn't voting for romney, he was
voting for not obama. yeah. so.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:25:48 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, as my friend said tonight, he wasn't voting for romney, he was
voting for not obama. yeah. so.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:25:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Also, nobody wants to raise taxes? :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:25:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Also, nobody wants to raise taxes? :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:28:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

> nobody wants to raise taxes?

Basically nobody running for high office will admit to wanting to
raise taxes.  Because if they do, they'll lose.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:28:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

> nobody wants to raise taxes?

Basically nobody running for high office will admit to wanting to
raise taxes.  Because if they do, they'll lose.  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:30:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, Grover Norquist.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:30:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Also, Grover Norquist.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:28:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

The exception is if you clarify that you want to raise taxes *on the
wealthy only*.  Then you're ok in liberal circles.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:31:03 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Once upon a time Romney's issues were "I hate gays less
than Ted Kennedy" and "Massachusetts could do with some
decent management of government agencies." I liked those
issues. He appears to have gotten largely new issues in the
last few years, and I don't know what to do with that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:31:45 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

etch-a-sketch candidate seems correct.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:31:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

He changed.  In 2000 I was in favor of McCain winning the nomination
because then we could have a "Debate about the issues".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:32:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"by 2008, mccain had changed too"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:34:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What changed is that the majority of the GOP base went from "fiscally
conservative and uncomfortable around teh gheys" to "completely
fucking insane".  And the primary is all about appealing to the base.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:33:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yeah, you're right.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Apr 24 22:33:59 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yeah, i would have voted for 2000 mccain, and i would have considered
governor romney. 2008 mccain and candidate romney are uninteresting.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Apr 24 23:41:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 25 02:28:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Being dayshifted makes it hard to do random student group stuff when
you get home. (I was kind of hoping to do a Precise build for
Debathena but I'm too tired to be allowed to touch build servers)

I guess the corollary is that doing random student group stuff makes
it hard to be dayshifted, which I spent five years proving

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Apr 25 02:28:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:14:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Did you just propose we switch to _Gentoo_'s homegrown init system
(instead of sysvinit, Debian's homegrown thing, upstart, or systemd)?
I hate you so much

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:16:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I bet you have to rebuild the init system with -funroll-loops,
amirite?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:15:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Well, duh, it's not fun otherwise.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:18:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

How is the Ksplice CentOS fork going, anyway? (And can I legally
contribute to it yet?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:19:53 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:22:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

To what part?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:23:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

CentOS copying someone's sources and not doing anything ueful with it
is not novel. Neither is being enjoined from competing with a
previous employer or leaking its trade secrets

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:23:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

All of it.
1) There's a fork?
2) It's going somewhere?
3) Contribute, why would you be limited by _them_?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:24:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for PILOTS! <geofft>

1) yes 2) probably not 3) by Ksploracle, not by CentOS

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:25:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Looks like no commits in the last 9 months.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 13:29:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

If this is the repo, it doesn't look like they've ever made any
meaningful commits at all, much less the last 9 months.

https://github.com/CentOS/ksplice/commits/master

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:05:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: non-competes are time-limited; it's almost certainly the case
that your time limit has expired.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:06:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

doesn't CA also just not believe in non-competes/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:06:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Nondisclosure is more what I'm worried about

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:06:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

CA doesn't believe in non-competes, but non-competes signed in other
states are probably enforcable in those states

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:07:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Right, it's unclear whose jurisdiction this would be.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:08:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I'm in CA, but I'm not working for a competitor in CA. Oracle is in
CA, too, admittedly. Ksplice is either in MA or CA. CentOS is in...
Europe? Github is... in CA?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:11:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...gentoo *has* a homegrown init system? I guess that's not really
that surprising.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:12:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

"OpenRC" is its name. I saw it mentioned somewhere (LWN? Lennart's G+
comments?) the other day

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Apr 25 14:50:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Aw, suspend is a bashism?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 15:16:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

I need two mes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 15:16:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: espresso, chocolate, whiskey, repeat <lizdenys>

isn't that what interns are for?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 15:17:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

"that I trust to be as competent as myself"

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Wed Apr 25 15:58:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Intrawebs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:52:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I want `blanche` for Exchange distribution lists

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:53:00 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

and fucking how

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:53:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Owww.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:53:12 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

OTOH, isn't it all ldap?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:54:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for MODELS! <geofft>

Wait, why are we all in OU=Redwood Shores, we moved out of Redwood
Shores years ago

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:58:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

If you want to write a good LDAP blanche tool, let me know. I think
Manic Sages might be interested.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:58:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hm, I can/"should" write that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:59:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for SURGEONS! <geofft>

adehnert: Define "good" and "LDAP"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:59:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

(I'm hacking together something for AD now)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 16:59:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:00:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Manic Sages has some sort of mailing lists in LDAP thing. Some better
tool than "write ldapsearch commandlines by hand" would be nice. Some
customization required might still be useful. "Shiny AJAXy webapp" is
always a plus.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:04:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

There's no built-in tool to look up SRV records in Python???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:09:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

There’s not even a built-in interface to libresolv.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:16:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Have fun with ctypes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:16:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I always have fun with ctypes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 17:40:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

aughhhhhhhh svn

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:27:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for FARMERS! <geofft>

Bluh network-manager

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:27:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for FARMERS! <geofft>

Bluh network-manager

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:27:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I suppose it would be vaguely unacceptable for me to switch BareMetal
to /etc/network/interfaces or wicd or something.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:54:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for PETS! <geofft>

netherp manaderp

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:54:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

(herpwork derpager?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 19:55:07 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't think you want wicd

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:02:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

i,i Well quit getting married, Debian is important

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:04:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

wicd's been ... acceptable mediocre.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:26:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I might change my mind about telling the IT guy that I was only going
to use this WRT54GL for a few days and didn't need it permanently...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:26:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I might change my mind about telling the IT guy that I was only going
to use this WRT54GL for a few days and didn't need it permanently...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:27:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why do you need it permanently?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:27:25 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Why do you need it permanently?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:27:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"because it seems unlikely that I will get NM working the way I want
it within a couple of days"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:27:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"because it seems unlikely that I will get NM working the way I want
it within a couple of days"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:28:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

(and it's useful to have a thing for testing various configs)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:28:09 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, are you using the router as a network card?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:29:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:30:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

It's just easier to do things like "so what happens if I _actually_
change the password on the router" with my own router

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:30:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Also "so what happens if I'm out of range" is easier when you merely
have to walk to the front door instead of halfway through the parking
lot <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:31:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Also, WPS is brute-forceable and can't be turned off on Linksys
routers? Ew.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:32:33 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, what? (x2)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:33:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for MODELS! <geofft>

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/12/researchers-publish-open-source-tool-for-hacking-wifi-protected-setup.ars

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:35:26 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...that's a blatant design flaw. 1 checksum number and you include it
as part of the PIN? And revealing the first half's correctness?
really?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:36:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

But it makes things more user-friendly

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Why do you hate users, achernya?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:37:45 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The are evil and must be punished.

But seriously, 5+ digit 7-segment display that has a new WPS key every
hour. How hard is that?  Or put a freaking LCD on it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:38:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Also, at some point, I should stop using three cubicles

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:54:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

"WANNA FIND GOD, JESUS IS THE ONLY ANSWER! & this eliminates Windows
Piracy Issue also.

"THANK GOD FOR OUR SPIRIT & MICROSOFT WINDOWS :)"

... wait what

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 20:56:03 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:00:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

... Okay why did nm make _two_ connections to my WRT

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:00:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

(on my desktop, no mokafive anything installed)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:01:40 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Like, actual connections oR UI fail?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:03:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

As in two connections in `nmcli con list` and in nm-connection-editor

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:03:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

whaaaaaat. why is nmcli not working with the dbus api

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:08:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

bromance languages

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:10:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

"Yo, bro. Like, totally" being a good example sentence

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:19:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

I should get around to cooking things

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:19:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FARMERS! <geofft>

"I hear I have more free time now that I'm not a student"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Apr 25 21:43:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Wat
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.mercurial.devel/49310

Class: geofft Instance: work.exchange-blanche
Time: Wed Apr 25 22:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Starking a bit, this seems to work well enough for my needs:

import ldap
import ldap.sasl
import ldap.filter
import sys

ll = ldap.initialize("ldap://ldap.example.com/")
ll.sasl_interactive_bind_s("", ldap.sasl.gssapi())

r = ll.search_s("ou=groups,dc=example,dc=com",
                ldap.SCOPE_SUBTREE,
                ldap.filter.filter_format(
                    "(&(objectClass=group)(cn=%s))", [sys.argv[1]]))
if len(r) != 0:
   for member in r[0][1]['member']:
     rr = ll.search_s(member, ldap.SCOPE_BASE)
     print rr[0][1]['mailNickname'][0]

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 22:44:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Okay, now I'm tempted to _go home and wash dishes_, wut.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 22:44:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 22:44:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you have a strange idea of fun, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:17:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

No, I just want to cook things and insufficient dishes are washed to
do this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:17:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Washing dishes isn't inherently fun (if nobody's around; if I can
talk to people then it's perfectly acceptable)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:18:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Dishwasher.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:18:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

That requires effort.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:18:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

(We have one, it's in Palo Alto, it's also hard to lift two flights
of stairs)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:18:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

sing!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:18:57 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Two people!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:19:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Are you volunteering?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:19:28 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm on the wrong coast to be volunteering.

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:21:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for MODELS! <geofft>

lizdenys
linerva

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:22:01 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Apr 25 23:28:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

"one of these days when I have free time..." I have pending work on
config-package-dev, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:20:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PILOTS! <geofft>

Oh hrrrrrgh. Networking is complicated

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:28:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for PILOTS! <geofft>

Remember when Randall Munroe was on zephyr? Good times.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:28:54 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:31:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

It was actually kinda boring, he just showed up for like half an hour.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:32:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Just one second, and I was left with nothing. <anusinha>

Did he have an athena account?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:30:27 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Randall's brother is a pretty cool guy.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:32:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that eating a cram ration is a smart move.
 <rnjacobs>

Yes, and you can guess the username.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:33:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

okay, what was it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:33:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, duh.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:33:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Yes, duh :p

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:34:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"SIPB should sponsor his account because it FTGOSes to have humor on
zephyr."

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:35:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Boylston. <stum>

who was sponsoring xkcd? and what happened to it?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:36:54 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It looks like it was kcr

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.d
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:37:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"And then I ran into him with some mutual friends at a bar in san
francisco and remarked I had zephyred him earlier"

Class: geofft Instance: tar.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:48:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

"hard link targets"

Class: geofft Instance: tar.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:48:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for PANDAS! <geofft>

Hard links don't have targets.

Class: geofft Instance: tar.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:49:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They do in tar

Class: geofft Instance: tar.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 00:50:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

But "Removing leading / from hard link targets" is silly, tar is
making up said targets.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:42:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

... Why are we going backwards, Did we miss the station????

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:43:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Melanie Goetz <melg>

They do miss the station every so often. Also there's a "Granite Rock
freight wagon derailed south of RWC" if that's relevant to your train.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:45:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

How do you do that.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:45:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

We're three stations north of RWC, so not yet

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:45:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Maybe the engineer was on zephyr"

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:59:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

How did you guys graduate from college without learning any of these
things

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 12:59:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

How did you guys graduate from college without learning any of these
things

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:01:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: who cast the final stone? <jessiehl>

Some Random psalm and a random quote from...I'm going to guess that
was either the Iliad or the Odyssey?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:01:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Ours not to question why / Ours but to mock and pry" - wtl <jessiehl>

Er, random, not Random.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:04:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

OZOK is my shepherd, &c.?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:05:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

And His glory was revealed unto them, and they knew he was the OZOK?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Iliad, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Apr 26 13:51:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

The Odyssey is about Odysseus.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.commenter.on.bitcoin
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:12:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

"the most volatile currency this side of the Zimbabwean Dollar"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:18:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Okay, guys, if you want to see a textbook example of bikeshedding:

>> Hi!
>> AFAIK systemd supports startup notifications, even in colour - at
>> least it did this last time I tried (a few weeks ago)
>
> Yes, it does but on wide screen it is not so easy to follow it because
> status (OK, Failed ...) are on the right end.
>
> It would be better if the status are on the beginning of the line.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:19:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

We must switch to a non-event-driven init system because _the colors
are in the wrong place_

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:21:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

(This is still the thread about whether we should switch to Gentoo's
OpenRC, which I can't believe is still going)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:22:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Surely "it's *GENTOO*'s init system" is an argument-ender.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:24:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

You would hope so!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:24:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

But apparently Gentoo's approval rating is higher than President
Poettering's these days.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:48:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I've actually been using the cars analogy for a couple months now and
I think it's very fitting. Imagine if you were a mechanic who owned
an auto shop and your average customer call went something like this:

Customer: My car isn't working and I need you to fix it immediately,
this is an emergency

Mechanic: Alright sir what seems to be the problem?

Customer: I don't know, I tried to use my car on friday and it didn't
work, now it's monday and I need to get to work and I can't and this
needs to be fixed right now.

Mechanic: Can you start the car? Can you even get into your car? Does
it make any sounds when you try to start it? Are all 4 tires there?

Customer: I don't know, I don't know what any of that stuff means, I
tried to get to work and it wouldn't let me and you need to fix it
now because you changed my oil 6 months ago.

Mechanic: Alright well what kind of car are you driving?

Customer: I don't know, a green one, why does that matter?

Mechanic: Please take a look at the back of your car and see if there
are any letters or numbers that would indicate a vehicle model or
manufacturer

Customer: Ok, my car is a SV2 87K.

Mechanic: No sir that's your license plate. My records indicate that
you drive a Nissan Altima, can you confirm that the key you're using
to try and get into this car says Nissan on it?

Customer: My key says Lexus but I don't see how that makes a
difference, I've been using this key on this car for years and it's
always worked, _what did you do to my car_?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:48:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I just sent that to several co-workers 3 hours ago

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:49:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Must be the time difference"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:49:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

psh I saw it 12 hours ago

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:49:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for COUGARS! <geofft>

I am less addicted to reddit than the two of you, I feel like such an
irresponsible person. Where by irresponsible I mean responsible

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:50:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"/r/mit counts as liaising with students, right?"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:54:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

"It counts as liaising with prefrosh"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:55:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "Don't liaise with the prefrosh!"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 14:55:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I'm pretty sure that's illegal in some states"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:13:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Why is the archive so slow today...? OH.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:14:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*slow clap*

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:14:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:17:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Or, I guess we should say "precisely".

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:26:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

"It is a release goal for Ubuntu 12.10 to ship only Python 3 on the
desktop CD images."

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:27:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean, "release goal" may be a slightly strong wording. I think
there's a shot it will actually happen for 12.10, but people also
thought that 12.04 would be Python 3 only

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:27:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I mean, "release goal" may be a slightly strong wording. I think
there's a shot it will actually happen for 12.10, but people also
thought that 12.04 would be Python 3 only

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:27:25 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

Eep.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:35:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Oooh, you can use ^ to mean "the repository root of whatever I have
checked out"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:36:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I think?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:36:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Yeah. (Although you need at least a trailing slash)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:36:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

so you can do svn switch ^/branches/foo or svn merge ^/trunk

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

bluh
salmon-of-wisdom:~/src/player gthomas$ svn pg svn:mergeinfo . | wc 
     90      90   11186

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:49:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Mid-Cambridge is such a terrible city, the mid-mayor is incompetent

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Thu Apr 26 16:51:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"midcompetent at best"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 17:02:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

... sbuild sends you mail when it's done? how did I never notice this

Class: geofft Instance: work.wiki.q
Time: Thu Apr 26 20:11:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

"Immediate Solution: Make sure the inter-tubes are unclogged and
rerun build."

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Thu Apr 26 20:17:07 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

there is semi-serious discussion about it on the mailing lists, at
least.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:03:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for COUGARS! <geofft>

Yeah, not really feeling like going to Boston this weekend. Have
enough stuff to do here

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:03:32 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

:( :( :( :(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:03:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

I'll show up ... some later weekend

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:04:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You better show up before term is over.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:04:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:04:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

What's wrong with like late June?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:04:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Because otherwise some of the people that would otherwise attend a
food mob won't be present.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:04:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

achernya / 6.857 / achernya  20:59  (Alexander Chernyakhovsky)
    Is it safe to use the same RSA key(pair) for signing and encryption?
oremanj / n-c / oremanj  20:59  (Joshua B Oreman)
    *falling over laughing*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

I have a productivity-threatening dislike of poor build systems and
version control systems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:37:00 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So that's why Debathena looks the way it looks...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:39:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for BARISTAS! <geofft>

No, that's Anders' productivity-threatening dislike of poor build
systems, and an ISDA policy of SVN

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:40:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for PANDAS! <geofft>

But it seems not unlikely that an automokaficator will exist in the
near future if I get sufficiently annoyed

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:40:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Which is a little silly, since we don't actually need one

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Apr 26 21:40:36 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Do it right this time and contribute to packagefab!

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:37:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for MODELS! <geofft>

scripts / sipb-noc / geofft  00:36  (So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for
    "If you want to do the build..."
Zephyr from broder  00:37  (Evan Broder)
    Yes, definitely

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:38:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

All right, Evan, looks like you've volunteered to make Debathena work
on precise

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:38:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Unfortunately for you, you asserting that will not, in fact, translate
into me doing work

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:41:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Can I guilt you into it as penance for not documenting the BM build
system sufficiently?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:46:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is it worse-documented than scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:47:52 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What is a BM build? Scripts is *not* badly documented.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:50:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

scripts is reasonably documented these days!

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:50:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for FARMERS! <geofft>

achernya: BareMetal

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:50:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Well, it's slightly more documented once I found that the
NOTES^WREADME file existed and wasn't on the Trac wiki

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:51:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

"a strangely familiar problem"

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Apr 27 00:52:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

scripts is actually possibly the thing I feel most comfortable with
in terms of docs. But I have Debathena memorized, so I can't fairly
judge that.

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:30:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

i,i the best of all possible best-of-all-possible-worlds arguments

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:30:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

i,i the best of all possible best-of-all-possible-worlds arguments

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:31:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for COUGARS! <geofft>

"The Theodicy was deemed illogical by the philosopher Bertrand
Russell. Russell points out that moral and physical evil must
result from metaphysical evil (imperfection). But imperfection is
merely finitude or limitation; if existence is good, as Leibniz
maintains, then the mere existence of evil requires that evil also be
good."

Okay, I hope Wikipedia is just being crappy here, because that
argument makes no sense

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:31:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for COUGARS! <geofft>

"The Theodicy was deemed illogical by the philosopher Bertrand
Russell. Russell points out that moral and physical evil must
result from metaphysical evil (imperfection). But imperfection is
merely finitude or limitation; if existence is good, as Leibniz
maintains, then the mere existence of evil requires that evil also be
good."

Okay, I hope Wikipedia is just being crappy here, because that
argument makes no sense

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:32:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

the fuck?

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:34:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

That makes as little sense to me as the argument that God must exist
because he's perfect, which means maximally good, and it's better to
exist than not to exist.

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:38:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I've decided I'm hugely not a fan of logical-necessity arguments for
the existence of God, because the God that tends to fall out of such
proofs has little to do with any God I think is worth acknowledging
in a religious way. The God of e.g. the Old Testament has specific
personality traits, and it's a little ridiculous to even want to
claim that it's metaphysically necessary that "The Lord your God is a
jealous God"

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:39:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Every effect needs a cause? Great, what does this have to do with
military aid to Israel. A thing that exists is more perfect than a
thing that doesn't? Awesome, now should we open Congress with a
prayer to said more perfect thing or not.

Class: geofft Instance: kdrinkwa
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:42:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

*snrk* Yeah. Ellen in Leftover Soup had some great line about that...
"You kind of have to define God as a virtual nonentity for such
arguments to work"?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:52:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/ayKNM.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Fri Apr 27 03:56:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonsai_Kitten?

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 14:58:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

REGRET TO INFORM YOU OUR SUBMARINES WERE DESTROYED IN A CRASH THIS
MORNING STOP PLEASE RESEND INFORMATION AND SUPPLIES STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 14:58:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

REGRET TO INFORM YOU OUR SUBMARINES WERE DESTROYED IN A CRASH THIS
MORNING STOP PLEASE RESEND INFORMATION AND SUPPLIES STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 14:59:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ACKNOWLEDGE STOP REGRET LOSS OF FLEET STOP STAND BY FOR RESUPPLY STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 14:59:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ACKNOWLEDGE STOP REGRET LOSS OF FLEET STOP STAND BY FOR RESUPPLY STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:00:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

REQUEST ADDITIONAL RESOURCES SO CRASH DOES NOT HAPPEN IN FUTURE STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:00:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

REQUEST ADDITIONAL RESOURCES SO CRASH DOES NOT HAPPEN IN FUTURE STOP

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:01:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, once again, http://amzn.com/0785822267

Class: geofft Instance: lost-subs
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:02:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

lulz

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:23:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, and WFH because I woke up too late to get to work at a useful time

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:28:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The crap is a "Beaverdash"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:28:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

A new type of porno

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:28:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Balderdash.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:29:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lisa Turpin is full of surprising coincidences. ("@<Albus Dumbledore, the most famous headmaster of Hogwarts in recent times, collaborated with many famous wizards throughout his long life.>") <xavid>

Haven't you heard?  The Guild HP7 canon makes much more sense than the
real HP canon.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:30:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahaha, my boss replies to my "WFH" email saying he's being
productive at home too

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:30:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We are bad people :)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Fri Apr 27 15:55:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Our build system is annoying :(

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Apr 27 20:21:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

y u not have competent build infrastructure like Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Apr 27 20:21:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I still like Fedora's

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 21:29:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What are "Giants"? And why do they periodically make traffic on
Friday evening terrible?

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 21:30:00 2012 Host: eamp.org
From: i knows misery done come here - show boat
 <rnjacobs>

<laugh>

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:14:27 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fanboys to the left of me! Fanboys to the right of me! <aatharuv>

Hah.

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:14:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

As in, why do they bother?

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:15:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

"You should just give up and stay home, guys, the Dodgers have got
this this season."

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:32:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just saw a man walk down the street in a T-shirt saying "We're
#-e^{\pi i}! San Mateo Math Team".

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:33:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Was the shirt typeset with LaTeX?

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:33:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not obviously so.

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:35:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I'm so glad that there are people with dorky math team T-shirts
even past high school

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:36:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hoogle's ability to frustrate me when it completely doesn't find me
what I want is reminiscent of its namesake. (Or actually, DuckDuckGo)

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:36:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] ... Seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:36:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder how the website and hoogle(1) compare; I've never compared
them directly

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:37:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

All these buses say "Go Giants"

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:37:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But they're not moving! So maybe if the giants, whatever they are,
would move like the buses said, everyone else could get somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:38:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I refuse to believe that Red Sox or Patriots games didn't affect your
life, transportation-wise, when you lived here.

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:38:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, they tend not to disrupt Cambridge

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hoogle will try to generalize the type you give it, so it frequently
suggests

    unsafeCoerce :: a -> b

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:39:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

geofft also tended not to drive.

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:39:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Who drives in to fenway park for a red sox game anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:39:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It actually was bothering me on bike

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:40:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But it's also relevant that Caltrain's terminus is right next to AT&T
Park, and the Caltrain schedule is influenced by games

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:40:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Also, Boston traffic sucks 24/7"

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:42:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> Who drives in
Lots of people, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:42:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(We accidentally got stuck in it on Friday)

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:43:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Erm, do you actually not know who the Giants are?

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:44:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They're the descendants of the sons of God and the daughters of men,
right?

Class: geofft Instance: traffic
Time: Fri Apr 27 22:47:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

How droll, nerds feigning ignorance about sports

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Apr 27 23:17:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Don't stop, make it pop, believing
Tonight, gonna hold on to that feeling
Tik tok on the clock but the people, ohh-ohhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Apr 27 23:18:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wake up in the morning, just a small-town girl
Grab my glasses, out the door, in a lonely world
'Fore I leave, brush my teeth with a midnight train going anywhere

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:42:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay what's the dumb do if/then rule

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:42:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Do you mean "What's the syntax for if/then within do"?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:42:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:43:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, do within if/then/else within do

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:43:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

OK, so certain keywords ("do" among them) start a layout block.  The
column of the first token after "do" is recorded.  Any line starting
in the same column gets an implicit ; prepended.  Any line starting
left of that column closes the block (implicit }).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:44:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"if"/"then" do not start a layout block

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:44:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

So you want something like

  do foo
     if bar
       then baz
       else bleh

which desugars to

do { foo; if bar then baz else bleh }

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:45:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ohhhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:45:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I bet
if (a == 0) then do
    stuff
is my real problem

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:46:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That should be ok, but you'll need the implicit closing brace to come before
the 'else'

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:46:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and I want "stuff" to be to the right of "do"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

No, that's fine.  I usually write stuff like

fun x y z = do
  stuff
  morestuff

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:46:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's the token *after* 'do' that sets the layout column

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:46:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I do this because otherwise the indentation of the whole block
depends on the length of the names "fun", "x", etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:47:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You might want Control.Monad.when instead of if/then/else

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:47:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

or you put a newline after =

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:48:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm using when in some other places, this has a few "else if"s.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:48:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But maybe I want when here too

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:48:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also Haskell 2010 allows "if foo; then bar; else baz" for the benefit
of layout, but I don't really like that

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:48:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't really like if/then/else in general...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:49:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

anyway what's wrong with
let f =
    do let a = 5
       if (a == 5) then do
           return 10
       else do
           return 7

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:49:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"else" needs to be indented more

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:50:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's:

let f = do { let a = 5; if (a == 5) then do { return 10 }; else do
{ return 7 } }

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

bah, seriously? ok.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:51:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also there is no point using "do" with a single expression-statement
(but maybe you know that and are using it for illustration)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yes, because if/then/else is a single expression, and a line starting
in "do"'s layout column gets an implicit ;, separating do-statements
(and therfore expressions)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:52:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I know that, this is longer, I'm trying to get a test case

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:52:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oh that makes sese, ok

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:53:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

See also
http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/haskell-prime/wiki/DoAndIfThenElse

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:53:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also is there a useful function to convert Maybe a into Monad m => m
a? then I could use lookup

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:54:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

yeah, I've read that before, I just forgot the rules (and am on my
phone)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:54:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess there's fromMaybe $ fail "didn't match".

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:55:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

well, not quite.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:55:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

maybe mzero return        :: MonadPlus m => Maybe a -> m a
maybe (fail "foo") return :: Monad m     => Maybe a -> m a

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:55:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

aha. right.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ok, right, becuase you let b = m a in the type of maybe

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:56:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whee, remembering how monads work

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:58:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

driver just stopped another driver going the opposite director and
asked "did you make a right turn? are the switches okay?"

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:58:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

driver just stopped another driver going the opposite director and
asked "did you make a right turn? are the switches okay?"

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:58:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*direction

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:58:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*direction

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Sat Apr 28 00:58:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is making me feel totally confident about this bus

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:02:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

oh seriously I think I have else if syntax wrong

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:03:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Oh, there's no "else if" syntax.  Use "case"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:04:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:04:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

But there’s nothing wrong with putting an if statement in an else
clause (if … then … else if … then … else …).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:04:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"that exists?"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:05:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

case?  Yes, it's the fundamental pattern-matching construct.  But it
also supports guards, so you can use it with booleans

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:06:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If you just want an n-way boolean conditional, the idiom is

  case () of
    _ | foo -> ...
      | bar -> ...
      | baz -> ...
      | otherwise -> ...

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:07:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But this is sort of a sign that you should be using more algebraic
data types and pattern-matching

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:18:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I don’t think there’s anything unidiomatic about
 if foo then …
  else if bar then …
  else if baz then …
  else …
unless you could really say it more clearly with pattern matching
(case () doesn’t count).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat Apr 28 01:23:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

*shrug* I prefer case (), I think it's easier to read, but it's not a
huge deal

Class: geofft Instance: wpa_supplicant
Time: Sat Apr 28 15:19:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder who this ebroder@mokafive.com dude is

Class: geofft Instance: wpa_supplicant
Time: Sat Apr 28 16:51:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, what's with these bzr:* svn props.
http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-wpa/wpasupplicant/trunk/
Is this... secretly a bzr repo? A svn export of a bzr repo?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:31:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_flesh_search_engine

Class: geofft Instance: lds.org.q
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:36:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of
redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would
fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted
salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality,
without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary
dedication"

Class: geofft Instance: lds.org.q
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:36:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, huh. I... clearly don't know Mormon theology at all

Class: geofft Instance: lds.org.q
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:42:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently there's a Book of Moses, whose fourth chapter is basically
Genesis 3 (except with "I, the Lord God" narrating) with this prepended:

"And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou
hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which
was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying -- Behold, here am
I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that
one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give
me thine honor.

"But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from
the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory
be thine forever.

"Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to
destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and
also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine
Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

"And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all
lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his
will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice."

Class: geofft Instance: lds.org.q
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:43:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And then continues with "Now the serpent was more cunning..." and the
business about the fruit)

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:51:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Interesting how it's described as essentially a Chinese phenomenon,
rather than a 4chan thing.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat Apr 28 17:51:26 2012 Host: STEVEN-R-LERMAN.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Interesting how it's described as essentially a Chinese phenomenon,
rather than a 4chan thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 19:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am still completely wowed by Cirque du Soleil's engineering
competence.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 19:21:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Being able to have people hanging in midair directly over me and know
that that rope is not going to break -- not within some number
of nines, but merely just _not_ going to happen -- is not a level of
certainty I'm used to.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 19:22:23 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It's *always* within some number of nines.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 20:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, TI copyrighted its patent?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 20:16:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You can _do that_?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 20:16:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Well, *you* can't.  TI has a business process patent on the idea of
copyrighting patents.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 20:17:14 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Polymorphing a shopkeeper might make you safer.
 <rnjacobs>

Technically, no, but that's never stopped lawyers before.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 20:17:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

htns++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Apr 28 21:06:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, why is there a cyrus-sasl2-mit-dbg but no cyrus-sasl2-mit (it
got RM'd)?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Apr 28 21:22:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

hnts++

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 22:17:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I make ldpreload.com GAFYD for the purpose of getting gchat on
Google's servers (instead of federated, which never works), am I going
to horribly confuse other things? I'd like, for instance, not to have
Google manage email at that domain

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 22:19:41 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Using gafyd without having google run email is pretty well
supported. But I believe you will confuse other things, I'm
just not sure which ones

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 22:20:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like if someone emails me a gdoc link, will Google eat it instead of
delivering it to my MX?

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 22:23:20 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

No

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 22:23:47 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

streambase has been running gafyd and our own exchange
server for over a year and I've never seen that kind of
failure.

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd
Time: Sat Apr 28 23:41:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am Federated, fwiw. (w/r/t XMPP)

Class: geofft Instance: gafyd.d
Time: Sat Apr 28 23:50:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Still looks like gayfd(2)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Apr 29 02:20:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

All right, that's enough today for today. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:45:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The number of reasonable people in this distro is starting to confuse
me. Who are you and what have you done with Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:46:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought Debian was supposed to be the last bastion of reasonableness
given that Ubuntu has jumped the shark...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:51:13 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

the unreasonable people are concentrating on
debian-legal.  (And many of the aren't otherwise affiliated with the project)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:51:21 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

s/of the/of them/

Class: geofft Instance: goals-for-today
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:53:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

- finish the precise debathena build
- laundry?
- church
- assemble furniture
- hack on work stuff for a few hours
- build a local NM/wpa_supplicant on my laptop
I think I can do all those if I don't get distracted with other plots
like trying to be a DM or an MEng

Class: geofft Instance: goals-for-today
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:54:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

How far did the precise build get?

Class: geofft Instance: goals-for-today
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:55:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We're missing like four packages because they don't quite exist in
oneiric because we never finished that build

Class: geofft Instance: goals-for-today
Time: Sun Apr 29 12:55:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Sun Apr 29 15:01:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"This is a Long Term Support (LTS) release, meaning Canonical
promises to fix bugs for the next five years."

i,i Wow, it'll take them that long? Precise must be incredibly crappy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr 29 15:36:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kind of want to get Comcast merely to be able to repro issues with
Comcast

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr 29 15:36:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

nooooooo
also the sonic DSL installer *just* got here

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr 29 15:37:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

IME, comcast is pretty fast.  I use google DNS.  Monkeybrains is also
very fast.  DSL (I don't know which provider, I don't use it, but a
roommate does) is pretty slow.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Apr 29 15:40:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, Sonic will probably be about 10 Mbps.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Apr 29 16:15:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://github.com/ricudis/mosaic

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Apr 29 16:17:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A wand can exorcize a past explorer's ghost.
 <rnjacobs>

I misread his username/surname as "ridiculous"

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Apr 29 16:17:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not inappropriate

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Apr 29 16:18:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a clove of garlic makes a good talisman if handled right.
 <rnjacobs>

which ... for modernizing the Mosaic build, is ==

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun Apr 29 16:19:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

When Slashdot's first or second redesign launched, for some reason
someone got (-1, Troll) for pointing out that the site reliably
crashed NCSA Mosaic.

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 18:08:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wow, we can get Twitter notifications of voicemail

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 19:05:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Just called them to enable our shell account. The shell server appears
to have crashed

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 19:14:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sweet, our DSL modem is running Linux

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 20:16:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wait, do we get kernel source?

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 23:23:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm sure thats legally obligated.

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 23:24:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, reassign the AP to 192.168.1.5/24 gw 192.168.1.1 on the wan
side, telnet in, and poke around

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 23:24:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, reassign the AP to 192.168.1.5/24 gw 192.168.1.1 on the wan
side, telnet in, and poke around

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 23:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's amazing. shell.sonic.net is Red Hat 7.3 running kernel 2.4.37

Class: geofft Instance: sonic.net
Time: Sun Apr 29 23:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's amazing. shell.sonic.net is Red Hat 7.3 running kernel 2.4.37

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:07:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Exodus 4:24-26 is kind of made of wat.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:07:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(In context with the rest of the chapter, which is entirely
reasonable)

Class: geofft Instance: exodus.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:08:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, I really love how Moses just manages to piss off God by asking
too many annoying questions

Class: geofft Instance: exodus.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:09:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Abraham was so much better at this. "Leave your land and go move
somewhere else." "OK." "I'm going to give you a kid." "OK." "Now
sacrifice your kid." "OK." "Wait don't do that." "OK."

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:16:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

.../buh?/

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:16:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

.../buh?/

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:19:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:19:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I had forgotten about that ...

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:20:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I think the traditional interpretation is that verse 23-and-a-half
goes "But wait, Moses had forgotten to circumcise one of his sons, and
this clearly would have made him unfit to be a leader of the Jewish
people, and also the penalty for forgetting to do that is death, so
God made him deal with it right then"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:20:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So I think the traditional interpretation is that verse 23-and-a-half
goes "But wait, Moses had forgotten to circumcise one of his sons, and
this clearly would have made him unfit to be a leader of the Jewish
people, and also the penalty for forgetting to do that is death, so
God made him deal with it right then"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:20:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And for some reason this is obvious enough to not actually be in the
text.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:34:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Do not put the Lord thy God to the test, for thou hast not been
granted Institutional Review Board approval by the Kingdom of Heaven."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:36:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

"It's a tough field, but you've got to admit the body of existing
literature can't be beat."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Mon Apr 30 02:43:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is the best disambiguation marker ever
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_liver

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 06:02:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Self_referential_humor&redirect=no

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 06:02:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Black Rose Immortal <nhk>

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Self_referential_humor&redirect=no

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 10:42:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(megastark) He still did better than Jonah. Jonah was the Worst
Prophet Ever.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:16:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's true, but Jonah kind of existed to be the worst prophet ever.
In the grand scheme of things, if Nineveh were lost, nobody would
care. If the Israelites were stuck in Egypt, that'd be more of a
problem.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:18:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although unlike "if Abraham died childless" or "if Jacob and his
family died in the famine", I guess someone else could have tried
again later, and the covenant to Abraham wouldn't've been aat risk if
they stayed in Egypt a bit more.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:20:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I just like Jonah because he's so *entertainingly* the worst prophet
ever.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:20:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also it's hard to read this without seeing everything being a huge
lead-up, genealogically and theologically, to Jesus, and I can't tell
how much of that is actually in the text vs. being my own
Christian-indoctrinated hermeneutic)

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:20:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It's you"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:20:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It's you"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:21:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, it doesn't seem implausible that it's a huge lead-up to the
Messiah, whether or not he got here 2 kiloyears ago or not.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:22:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's clearly a favored line in e.g. Jacob's children, even though
having any children at all would be fine for the promise of Abraham
becoming a great nation.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:23:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And in Isaac vs. Ishmael, too. "He'll also be a great nation, but
not the one I meant")

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:29:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess my problem (and this is more about Genesis than Exodus) is
that clearly someone wrote this for a reason, and the stories are too
scattered to be a reasonable creation mythos, and the morality is too
random to let you derive a consistent a moral code, let alone a
worthwhile one.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:30:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

> clearly someone wrote this for a reaso
"How is that clear?"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:30:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

> clearly someone wrote this for a reaso
"How is that clear?"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:30:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Even if you try the cynical "the priests wrote it to control the
population" explanation, it doesn't work. There are so many better
things the priests could have written if they wanted to do that

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> "How is that clear?"
Absurdism hadn't been invented yet, and unlike with people, the cold
forces of natural selection don't tend to write books.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:32:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a collection of stuff written by different people at different
times and collected by different people over different times. I'm not
really sure you could possibly find a clear agenda in there.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:32:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

==glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:32:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But you seethis within even small scales.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:33:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"and also *edited* by different people at different times"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:33:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You should at least find evidence of the most recent editor's
agenda...

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:34:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure you can say that, it being an amalgamation, there's no
longer any evidence of anyone's agenda anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:37:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Take the bloody bridegroom text that started this instance. That's
three verses, that chronologically fit -- either they make sense in
context, or they're taken from some other more coherent story and
someone decided to adopt the less coherent one as a holy book. I don't
think you can say that the three verses were edited or mashed up to
nonrecognition from some other source

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:37:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So "why does this text exist?" is not adequately answered by "this
wasn't its original form".

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:38:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think my argument is that when people edited it in parts, they
didn't necessarily edit everything else to make it consistent with
their changes.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:41:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I'm not convinced most of this can't be explained as the result of a
basically random walk through the plotspace of creation stories.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:41:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

And I also speculate that that is basically what happens.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:42:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does amuse me that Genesis starts with two different inconsistent
creation stories in sequence.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:42:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hm?

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:44:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does! They're even very textually different in Hebrew (the first
one refers to "elohim" (the gods), and the second one refers to
God in the usual unspeakable way.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:44:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

nelhage: There are so many unlikely parts of the stories, though. "And
then they got their father drunk and slept with him so they could have
kids." "And then he pretended his wife is hs sister." "And then God
asked him to sacrifice his kid for the lulz."
And none of these are particularly plot-important to getting the Jews
in and out of Egypt

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:45:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "And Abram said unto God, 'are You fucking kidding me'"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:45:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "And Abram said unto God, 'are You fucking kidding me'"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I dunno, those sound like the kinds of things I'd expect from a
random walk through plotspace with the right initial conditions.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I dunno, those sound like the kinds of things I'd expect from a
random walk through plotspace with the right initial conditions.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh yes, i'm familiar with elohim / distinction, I never actually
thought of it as meaning two different stories.  I heard a slightly
different explanation, I'm trying to remember...

Class: geofft Instance: exodus.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Also, I just really like the phrase "random walk through plotspace"

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like if you wanted to write a creation myth... it'd come out looking
more likethe Silmarillion than the Torah.

Class: geofft Instance: exodus
Time: Mon Apr 30 11:46:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, they both start with nothing and have the actors creating the
world in different ways

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:07:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Guy in front of me is reading some academic paper about marriage. Kind
of tempted to launch into the "Mawwiage" speech and see what he does

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:08:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What is the mawwiage speech?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:09:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

from Princess Bride

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:09:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

from Princess Bride

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, I have never heard "AOL" used as a synonym for "agree with"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:15:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I see the etymology!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:15:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mwawwiage.  Mwawwiage, is what bwings uws togewver ... today.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:15:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wait, you've never heard that?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:15:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I... dont?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:16:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

BITD, AOL forums were full of people asking questions, and then N
million other "Me too!" posts

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:16:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Still unrelated, but let me AOL the above. Russ was just joking, but I
> completely agree with Marco's point here. 

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:16:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

if it's a good academic paper on marriage, I want a link :)

(this is a very socailly interesting phenomenon to me)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:17:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"so, like ubuntu forums or launchpad bugs today"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Apr 30 13:20:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes.  The rest of the internet when downhill when AOL started
including SLIP and PPP clients.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Apr 30 14:04:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh. You know how you're not supposed to go grocery shopping before
eating because you'll buy too much? I just had the inverse experience

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Apr 30 14:10:57 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Moral: never go grocery shopping or eat.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:12:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How have I not joined a choir yet?

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:12:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Well, I guess part of it is that I go to a church that doesn't have
one)

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:12:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

(#fail)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:36:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sigh, the normal Nook won't take PDFs, and I'm not sure I want a
tablet instead of an e-ink device

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:37:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Kindle does, fsvo "take"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:37:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"but I have an irrational hatred of Amazon because they killed
Borders"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:37:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Borders killed Borders.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:38:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I Borders Without Borders

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:38:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"B&N only survived because they're mostly a cafe"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:38:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The Borders in the Galleria was actually a really nice cafe

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:39:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"But Panda Express was downstairs, so it failed"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:39:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Borders died because they had no idea what they were doing once the
internet arrived, didn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:39:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... The Galleria doesn't have a Panda Express, does it?

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:39:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It used to

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:39:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cleveland Circle. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

the prudential center does.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:40:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

B&N seems to be reasonably competent at doing useful Internet things
(e.g., making tablets) while continuing to have a physical presence.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about Amazon if they had a physical
presence. Probably they'd raise prices, and then I'd feel okay buying
things from them.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:47:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Oh, you mean *this* gate key.  - @i(Fezzik's lessons in cryptanalysis) <eichin>

kindles handle pdfs directly (in that you can just
copy the files on to the device over USB) but unless you get the big
one, the lack of reflow and margin-eating will probably make you suffer

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:47:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I may also want to write a program to mangle academic papers
into one-column infinite-height format or something.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:47:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(The Nook Tablet seems to work adequately, but it's not perfect)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:50:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

Are you seriously angry that amazon has no physical presence and is
winning the market? Technology often changes things... this just seems a
great example of it.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:50:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not angry, I'm just choosing to spend my money on things I find
valuable.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:51:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"will you still hate amazon after they kill b&n too?"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:51:16 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Warp 5, engage...No, Mr. Data, more clutch! <eichin>

I find I quite like the margin-trimming GoodReader does on
the ipad, and wish the kindle had that, but I would probably add a
pre-existing smart-trimmer to my kindle workflow :-)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

> Yeah, I may also want to write a program to mangle academic papers
> into one-column infinite-height format or something.

I would give five dollars for such a thing!

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I think it's totally reasonable to appreciate physical book stores...
but fail to see why one would pick B&N/borders as their favorites. "A
different rant, though"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:30 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==Liz

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the alternative? Small independent book stores or something?

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They tend not to sell e-readers

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:52:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Oh, you mean *this* gate key.  - @i(Fezzik's lessons in cryptanalysis) <eichin>

aside from them sucking, I never forgave borders for killing waldenbooks :-)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:53:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I also feel like being pro ereader but only from places with physical
stores is against the idea that ereaders are taking over the books
market--which seems to be at least part of your problem.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:53:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not happy about buying an e-reader, but technology is changing
things

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:53:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or so I hear.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:53:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Appreciating physical bookstores is great.  but pick something like
strand ;)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:54:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyway, if you have other suggestions for places where I should be
comfortable giving money to that sell e-readers, let me know. They
don't really have to be tied to a physical bookstore.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:54:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The bookstore in Porter seems to sell ereaders.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I'm not sure why the concept of "don't buy products from
companies whose behavior you dislike, even if they're the product you
want" is confusing

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I hardly think we're at the point where you have to buy an ereader.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==liz

also, it's not confusing at all

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sure. I can happily do without one, and I don't have one.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If you guys feel so strongly about it, I'm not going to get one.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"I worked for lab126 and I don't own an ereader"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:55:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

I think the line gets fuzzy when you decide whether or not to boycott
companies hosted on s3.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:56:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

If you want to hate on amazon, go ahead. When you're talking about
hating on them because they offer a non-physical product in their
non-physical store, I'm going to push you for better reasons, not tell
you not to hate on them.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:56:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

primarily non-physical*

because the ereader is really just a vessel for the real thing, ebooks

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:57:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mostly want one for PDFs, is the thing. I'll continue to buy books
in physical form.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:57:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

Also, if you actually don't want the world to convert entirely to
ereaders, you probably want to support something that isn't selling one.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But B&N is doing something incredibly reasonable with physical
presence -- they let you read books on your e-reader in store, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My concern is about bookstores with a physical presence, not about
book format

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

*why*

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because I like them.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:38 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, what do you mean the nook doesn't take PDF? My (original) nook
takes PDF

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Am I not permitted to?

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:58:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

achernya: OK, how? You're the first person in this thread who's being
useful instead of telling me what to do with my money

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

no! I love them... sort of

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

how? plug in USB, drop pdf

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

but I don't get any of the reasons I like them from B&N

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

> I mostly want one for PDFs, is the thing. I'll continue to buy books
> in physical form.

Oh god yes

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I bought it _because_ of this feature.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

It's nice to have someone who knows your purchases to talk to you about
what is coming up for you

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 15:59:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I mean, there's no money in it, but I would love a kindle optimized
for pdfs and nothing more

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:00:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. The person at B&N told me it didn't support that

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:00:37 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Are you looking at the new nooks? It's possible they stripped the
feature.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:00:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Usually salespeople lie in the *other* direction...

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:01:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm looking at the "Nook Simple Touch with GlowLight"

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:01:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Liz: Good for you, we're different people, we have different
priorities on what we want to exist and how we spend money

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:01:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

The only thing I know about how B&N employees are trained to sell the
nook product is that I read that they are required to call it "nook",
lowercase and with no article prefacing it.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:01:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

How do you make it clear that it's a lowercase 'n' in speech?

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:01:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

> Supported File Types
> ePub, PDF
> Graphic: JPG, GIF, PNG, BMP

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:02:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

that's totally fine, geoffrey! I just get confused when people don't
fully optimize in one way or another and end in some odd middle.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:02:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Okay, well I will go back there with an SD card with USENIX
proceedings or something

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:02:30 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You may have to put it in the Documents/ folder or something

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:03:11 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also, the PDF reflowing is sub-optimal in my experience, you really
want to use calibre to spit out an epub

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:04:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Four boxes : soap, ballot, jury, ammo.  Use in that order. <eichin>

I do suggest considering a large screen device for pdfs 
(the nooks and non-DX kindles are better than nothing, but they're not *good*)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:04:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, the new iPad is tempting for that, but I want an eInk display.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:35:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Users and implementors should be aware that this protocol is not as
secure as Kerberos"

Class: geofft Instance: rfc2617
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:47:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, Digest provides integrity protection?

Class: geofft Instance: rfc2617
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, isn't life great!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:50:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

When did our CEO become a founder?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is like the second press article that has decided that he's a
founder

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:54:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why hasn't anyone set up a large independent music or TV distributor
yet?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:55:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

...people are?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:55:28 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

There are a couple.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Apr 30 16:55:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

There are successful ones for music. Less so for video, but
it's coming through.

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:16:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ugh, I really want mplayer to have gapless playback

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:16:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Is ffmpeg better at this? I vaguely recall wanting to switch to ffmpeg

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:17:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

please shave this yak for me

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:19:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ffplay seems to really not have a UI.

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:19:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'm a little surprised that there isn't a better UI than mplayer)

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:19:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

neither does mplayer

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:20:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: wide eyed, straightforward, undiplomatic, sardonic -- just like Feynman... <eichin>

vlc maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:20:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, right.

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:20:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Weapons-Grade Alcoholic Beverages) <eichin>

(it's at least *more* of a UI, which isn't the same as "better" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:21:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ffmpeg is command line, just like mplayer, right?

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:21:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(well, you want ffplay(1), but) yes

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:22:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It also decides to give you a spectrogram for no good reason, which
was the reason I decided not to use ffplay last time I thought I did

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:22:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

...

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:27:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Me and my -5 Hit Points are just going to take a little nap now - DMoftheRings
 <rnjacobs>

I've been using sox's play (sigh) the last time I wanted gapless playback.

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:27:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh

Class: geofft Instance: mplayer
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:29:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Polymorphing your dog probably makes you safer.
 <rnjacobs>

"Surely sox shouldn't be the right answer. Right? Right?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:40:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, I have confused everyone by getting a haircut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:42:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

how long was your hair?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:43:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"short, last time I saw you"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I hadn't gotten a haircut since Christmas

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:45:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Last time you saw me was ... March? It was only slightly unreasonable
then.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:47:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I don't undersgtand people who cut their hair more often than every
few years.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:47:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:48:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

It made more sense when my hair was above my shoulders

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:48:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

because "at your shoulders" is an irritating point with hair as straight
as mine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not really any better with curly hair. Remember my driver's
license photo?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not really any better with curly hair. Remember my driver's
license photo?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

mmm, I meant the feel more than any appearance concenrs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

mmm, I meant the feel more than any appearance concenrs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:42 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is a good sphere, with many friends. <asedeno>

I remain unconvinced of the possibility of my hair reaching my shoulders.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:42 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is a good sphere, with many friends. <asedeno>

I remain unconvinced of the possibility of my hair reaching my shoulders.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

It just *always* brushes back and forth and back and forth

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

It just *always* brushes back and forth and back and forth

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:49:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Joshua: Your hair probably doesn't do the same thing mine does.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:50:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I would happily do something reasonable with my hair long if it were
possible, but it's not

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:50:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

dye it blue and pretend to be Marge from the Simpsons

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:50:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Anyone here remmeber the horrible time my hair was long and in a
ponytail and at my shoulders?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:50:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

it's the best plan

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:51:14 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

Whaa, when was that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:52:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kyoki: My skin is insufficiently solid yellow to pull that off. Also, no

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:52:26 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

i bet if we gave you a clown nose, it would all just work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:52:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

the first time I grew it out, i think?  I had this kick of "I'm a SIPB
member!  I need my hair in a PONYTAIL now!!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:52:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:53:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

Dear SIPB members,

You probably don't actually want that.

<3,
a girl

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:53:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

BINGO

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:53:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's true, they don't look good on everyone.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:54:09 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Fact not found. <asedeno>

More states I can't imagine my hair in.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:54:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I got a ponytail, girls would talk to me simply to tell me how
ridiculous the concept of me with a ponytail is

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:55:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:56:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At some point we should turn on the Trac email hook for Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: broder
Time: Mon Apr 30 17:56:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

At some point we should turn on the Trac email hook for Debathena

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 18:11:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What; I totally want that!

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Apr 30 18:12:15 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

My brother asserts that I should grow a ponytail simply because I'm a
CS grad student.

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:04:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Capsicum and TrustedBSD are entirely unrelated, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:09:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Except for both being rwatson's babies, I think so.

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:34:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I noticed that.
OK

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:52:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

If I may ask, are you looking at capsicum in any serious capacity?

Class: geofft Instance: sandboxing
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:56:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       > Yeah, I may also want to write a program to mangle academic papers
       > into one-column infinite-height format or something.

Please do.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:57:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fine fine I'll get to it right after I write the program to mangle PDF
scores into one-system infinite-width format.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:59:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       I mostly want one for PDFs, is the thing. I'll continue to buy books
       in physical form.

I've actually been surprised to discover that I prefer reading on my
Kindle --- two things I like is less dexterity needed for turning
pages (nice if I want to read while it's cold enough to want gloves),
and staying open without holding (useful when I'm reading while,
e.g., eating).

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:59:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They totally regressed on page-turning in the kindle touch. It's
obnoxious.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:59:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(they got rid of previous/next page buttons in favor of taps on regions
on the screen)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 19:59:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(they got rid of previous/next page buttons in favor of taps on regions
on the screen)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:00:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm unconvinced that Kindle Touch is a good choice. (Admittedly, I've
never used one.)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:00:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm unconvinced that Kindle Touch is a good choice. (Admittedly, I've
never used one.)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:02:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Also, the PDF reflowing is sub-optimal in my experience, you really
> want to use calibre to spit out an epub 

Wait, Calibre supports this? (Also, does it support "don't let local
users get root" in Ubuntu...?)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:02:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Also, the PDF reflowing is sub-optimal in my experience, you really
> want to use calibre to spit out an epub 

Wait, Calibre supports this? (Also, does it support "don't let local
users get root" in Ubuntu...?)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:04:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, it doesn't ship the setuid helper anymore. And even when it did,
you could refuse to install it. And even if you did install it, if it
detected a more sane method of mounting devices, it wouldn't use it.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:04:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, it doesn't ship the setuid helper anymore. And even when it did,
you could refuse to install it. And even if you did install it, if it
detected a more sane method of mounting devices, it wouldn't use it.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:04:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Which doesn't make his inclusion of it any better, mind.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:05:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, that last bit doesn't help...

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:05:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

True.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:05:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I have no objection to calibre *running* a setuid helper. I object to
*other stuff* being able to run it.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:06:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(And "you could refuse to install it" doesn't help if the Ubuntu
package installs it, since I don't check what the package is giving
me.)

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:07:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have to admit I've been running it out of a directory in my homedir,
since the ubuntu package at the time I installed was old.

Class: geofft Instance: nook
Time: Mon Apr 30 20:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i AppArmor

Class: geofft Instance: xcode.q
Time: Mon Apr 30 21:56:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

__THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__()

Class: geofft Instance: xcode.q
Time: Mon Apr 30 21:58:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

ALL THESE SYSCALLS ARE YOURS EXCEPT FORK(2)

Class: geofft Instance: xcode.q
Time: Mon Apr 30 21:59:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: xcode.q
Time: Mon Apr 30 22:00:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ATTEMPT NO TRAPPINGS THERE

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue May  1 12:11:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OW

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue May  1 12:12:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't understand why I have no problems with pressure changes on
planes but I do on Caltrain (in this one tunnel)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue May  1 12:12:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because presumably one is gradual and the other is not?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue May  1 12:13:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But it's such a tiny pressure change

Class: geofft Instance: @github
Time: Tue May  1 13:31:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

GitHub Enterprise supports SNMP? waaaat

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue May  1 13:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... wow, did you actually show up in #nm and start the conversation
with "oh yeah , im gonna bitch you hard" and actually get useful
responses?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue May  1 13:38:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Oh, so that's how Ubuntu support is supposed to work"

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Tue May  1 13:39:31 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

That's kind of how life works.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 13:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Totally forgot to tag off Caltrain this morning :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 13:49:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Use with dry chemical only <yoz>

You could probably still do it if it's close enough to your office
(you get ~4 hours).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 13:50:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I might get lunch nearby. It's ten minutes by bike, which is
long enough to be annoying

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Tue May  1 14:15:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear Dell,

WTF is a "wifi catcher"

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Tue May  1 14:15:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Like a dream catcher, but with more science.
Optionally, less science.

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Tue May  1 14:15:49 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

/r/shittyaskscience

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:21:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whyyy do we have code in vala

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:26:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You wouldn't want Vala to feel left out, would you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:31:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Are you working with lightdm?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:31:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Are you working with lightdm?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:33:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not... yet. Although I suppose we will be

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:35:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ooh, Vala has a ?? operator? Useful. (Although I guess gcc has that,
spelled ?:)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Tue May  1 14:35:49 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I initially parsed that as the operator being '?' and then you
expressing happiness about that operator

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:36:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I thought ?? was something to do with nullity.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks like foo ?? bar is equivalent to foo ? foo : bar (which is
what foo ?: bar does in gcc)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 14:38:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lisa Turpin, Dungeon Explorer ("@<building the clock tower and the wing that now houses the greenhouses, both of which reflect his characteristic Gothic style.>") <xavid>

Isn't that just "foo or bar"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:35:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Blah, language-switching. I'm having trouble convincing myself Python
is not Haskell

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:36:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I'd be fine in C or Java.

(Hm, maybe I should write this in C, it's just a prototype)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:36:27 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Can't decide between C and Python?   Pyrex!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:36:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

ctypes!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:36:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not getting confused between those, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 16:37:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also

  http://docs.python.org/library/itertools.html
  http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Tue May  1 17:40:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I suppose using a KeyError to represent an error in a cryptographic
key would be wrong

Class: geofft Instance: python
Time: Tue May  1 17:42:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

-_-

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:45:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hey zephyr, if I give you an object with a mkdir() method on
it, what do you expect it to do?
a) The object represents an existing directory. Take a string, and
create a subdirectory.
b) The object represents a nonexistent directory. Create it.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:46:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Kenna – Daylight
 <rnjacobs>

I'd expect the former.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:46:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I *think* a), but I'm currently being very heavily biased by working on
a particular script.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:46:46 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Both.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:46:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

yeah, my expectation is (a)

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:47:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(a)

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:47:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(a), although I've seen things in the style of (b) before.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:47:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(b) has a strong scent of Java about it.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:47:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

hahah glasgall, it does

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:47:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(a)

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've in fact recently seen a Java API that implements (b). I think
there's also a Windows one that does roughly the same thing

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:49:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

At a previous job we used to ask interviewees to design a class
hierarchy for filesystem operations.  The idea was just to see if they
come up with something roughly consistent.

Class: geofft Instance: api
Time: Tue May  1 18:50:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm currently writing one that does (a).

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:02:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, Alpine seems to not be seeing the content of a PGP-signed mail
from a Debian person

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:02:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(tried to file a bug with my work account, that was apparently a
mistake)

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:02:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OWA sees it fine.

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:03:06 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yo dawg I herd you leik bugs so I gave you a bug while you were
reporting a bug

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:04:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Why does imtest prefer NTLM to GSSAPI?

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:08:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrrm. Does Alpine not like multipart/signed?

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:08:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It wouldn't surprise me very much.

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:09:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It has built-in S/MIME support, so that's a little funny.

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:11:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hrm, I wonder if it _only_ accepts S/MIME multipart/signed
messages.

Class: geofft Instance: exchange
Time: Tue May  1 19:11:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

that would be dumb, but not unexpected

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:27:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Support directory hardlinks [Y/n]?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:27:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

n n n n n

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:28:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Down that path lies madness, as you know damn well.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:28:47 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Schrodinger's cat paradox outlines a situation in which a cat in a box must be considered, for all intents and purposes, simultaneously alive and dead. Schrodinger created this paradox as a justification for killing cats. <asedeno>

. ..

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Besides those.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Besides those.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh. Well, I don't actually need to support .., I think.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh. Well, I don't actually need to support .., I think.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"You say that, now..."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:41 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Kenna – Be Still
 <rnjacobs>

.... Down that @i{path} lies madness?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:29:52 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Error. Error. Error. Fact not found. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:30:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Actually, I think the problem is that up that path lies madness.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May  1 19:30:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...you know, I didn't even see that when I typed it. Hooray for
unintentional cleverness!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:47:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I feel like if I had another, oh, ten years, I'd have something of an
idea of how to make student groups/government at MIT work.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I suppose the charm of it all is that nobody is allowed to have
that long to figure it out and still be able to influence things in
any way other than just opining at people who've spent less time
thinking about it.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:50:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "It's like California's state legislature!"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:50:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "It's like California's state legislature!"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:56:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I,I "except jhawk"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May  1 22:57:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In general jhawk mostly just opines at people who have spent less
time thinking about it. Opines very earnestly, to be sure.

Class: geofft Instance: else.else.jwz's blog
Time: Tue May  1 23:02:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should actually learn OpenGL at some point

Class: geofft Instance: else.else.jwz's blog
Time: Tue May  1 23:02:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should actually learn OpenGL at some point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 23:10:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think my new name for "the app store review process" is going to be
"strings|grep"

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:17:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

PT_DENY_ATTACH? ... Did you implement this _just_ for iTunes?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:17:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:17:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Can't you... break on that instruction and skip over it?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:18:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I don't fully understand how (or if) they attempt to prevent attacks
of that nature.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:18:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(or care)

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:28:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/macosx/Leopard_PT_DENY_ATTACH.20080122.html
works around it in an amusing Ksplicey way

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I just found this, anyway.
http://uninformed.org/index.cgi?v=4&a=3&p=14

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:32:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... OS X has the securelevel sysctl? Wat

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:32:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like I know you guys not-so-secretly stole the BSD kernel, but... wat

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:33:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I ... does it actually do anything, though?  I want to say it does
not...

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:33:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think at one point they even documented which version of freebsd
they'd based their BSD bits on in a given OSX release.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:33:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I'm not going to try, because I can't reboot this machine
because [redacted]

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:33:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, i-mix

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 23:37:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I do wish I were better at perl.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May  1 23:38:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Relatedly, but not identically, I do wish I liked perl more.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Tue May  1 23:41:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ahahaha temp_patch_ptrace is the best function
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/bsd/dev/ppc/systemcalls.c?v=xnu-792#L481

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  1 23:41:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right, I should go home

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace.d
Time: Tue May  1 23:42:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

All of these processes are yours -- except iTunes. Attempt no ptraces
there.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Wed May  2 00:07:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I AM A SEXY SHOED GOD OF BIKE REPAIR

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Wed May  2 00:07:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Wed May  2 00:08:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(successfully got my bike chain where it was supposed to be by sitting
down and using both feet, thereby avoiding getting my hands dirty)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Wed May  2 00:08:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I got my bike chain where it was supposed to be, this morning, using
my leatherman.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 02:15:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Decided to switch to BART at Millbrae 'cause I was feeling lazy and
didn't want to bike the distance from the Caltrain station). Realized
as soon as I got off that I left my wallet on the train, which of
course is a problem because it makes it hard to get on BART or take a
taxi. Fortunately I had a BART paper ticket in my pocket, so I took
BART up to the closest stop to the Caltrain station, biked to it,
asked questions for a bit, and discovered that someone had actually
turned in my wallet.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 02:16:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should probably move the things I generally don't need from my
wallet to a separate one and just keep credit card, Clipper card,
driver's license, and some cash in the one I actually bother to take
out of my pocket (or better yet leave the other one in my backpack)

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Wed May  2 02:17:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, I wanted to go to an Orthodox church at some point. I almost
got around to it in January but failed

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 09:41:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Well, that worked out nicely!

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 09:43:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

Congrats on getting your wallet back!

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 09:49:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

As Dave Glasser has discovered, a non-obvious feature of having an
Uber account is the ability to get transportation using your phone,
rather than your wallet.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:24:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I think I've used that at least once. Or, at least, it's come to
mind.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:26:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unfortunately I maxed out my credit limit on the Uber I took home
Monday when I was feeling too nauseous and
light-sensitiitive-headachey to bike (or ZipCar), so that would have
needed more games, like switching my Uber account to my debit card.
Which I guess I could have done from my phone, too.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:29:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you need a new credit card, geofft

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:30:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Fan The Top <kchen>

Or a credit line increase.  (But I don't remember how long Geoff has
had his card, so it might be too soon to get one.)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:30:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"effort"

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I already got one! From $1k to $2.5k

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should get this mitfcu alum card, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:32:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

the alum card and the mitfcu card are entirely different things, I
thought?

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:33:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

You should get a non mitfcu card.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:34:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really like MITFCU though.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:34:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

if you ever need to do international travel, you've got a good chance of maxing
out your card and being screwed

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:35:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Get an Amex too.  Far better for dispute resolution than other places.
I do all my hotel and car rental stuff on Amex.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:36:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

hell, you may not even max out, but sometimes getting a hold of the
company is more of a pain than just trying a different card (like when
you're eating a meal a tiny bit before your flight)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:37:11 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

(soooo many fraud checks have happened when I've been overseas. EVEN
after telling them I'd be overseas)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

I was annoyed when my credit card was immediately disabled because I
called them to notify them that I was going to be traveling.  It
wasn't even a *charge* that triggered the fraud cutoff--it was a call
to them on which they asked me 2 or 3 security questions and I
answered correctly.  Fortunately, calling them again and answering
the same questions again removed the hold!

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:48:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Spin Chain & Exchange The Gears <kchen>

... wow.  Did they say why they did that?

fwiw, I've never called to let my (two) card companies know, and I
haven't had a problem, although I've certainly heard of many other
people having problems.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:49:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

They blamed it on the fact that I called from Skype.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:50:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I started calling after not calling failed.

Calling has seemed to fail less than not calling, IME.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:51:21 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I used to call, but I've forgotten to lately and not had any issues with it

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:52:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Run <kchen>

(oh, I guess if you count debit (used as ATM) cards, it's up to 3,
but I think a friend of mine with the same card called that card
company, and they didn't have any standard way of notating it because
I guess they didn't care)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:52:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

that...really surprises me.  (That they wouldn't have a standard way
of noting travel)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:53:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, that seems really odd ...

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:54:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Load The Boat <kchen>

That one is the "Schwab Bank High Yield Investor Checking" account:
https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

All ATM fees anywhere worldwide refunded, and no international fees,
which might contribute to them not caring.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:55:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

they don't tend to care because of fees I thought ...

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:55:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

they tend to care for fraud protection

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:55:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

What I meant was people may be more likely to use that card
internationally than other cards, so it's less likely to trigger their
fraud protection.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 14:56:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ah, sure

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself.d
Time: Wed May  2 15:20:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is why I like cash.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 15:21:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

I like cash fine, but like rewards and convenience of not carrying a
crapton of it around more :)

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself.d
Time: Wed May  2 15:21:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like the entire credit card system seems to be... academic publishing,
with money instead of papers.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself.d
Time: Wed May  2 15:22:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

The credit card system is a disaster and broken and wrong and all of
the incentives are perverse.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself.d
Time: Wed May  2 15:22:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That said, you're only hurting yourself by refusing to participate.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself.d
Time: Wed May  2 15:22:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, the academics seem to be refusing to play the game and doing
fine. We should set up an ar$iv.

Class: geofft Instance: not-allowed-to-be-trusted-with-myself
Time: Wed May  2 15:23:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: paigep
Time: Wed May  2 15:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait why is #ubuntu-devel talking about immutable resolv.conf too

Class: geofft Instance: paigep
Time: Wed May  2 15:43:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This has to do with... an SRU to resolvconf? *terrified*

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 16:41:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't really understand why we care about this alumni association.
Can't we make our own?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 16:43:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

network effects, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 16:43:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The current alumni association has approximately zero advantages for
me, so...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 16:44:22 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

They're ~guaranteed to continue existing and trying to remember you
in 25 years

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 16:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lisa Turpin, Hogwarts Historian ("@<The next day, a team of Death Eaters and Ministry of Magic officials invaded Hogwarts, seeking former Hogwarts professor Remus Lupin, known werewolf.>") <xavid>

I totally wanted to make some sort of activist alumni association at
some point.  But it'd be work.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 17:06:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why do I want them to remember me for 25 years?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed May  2 17:07:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Basically the only thing the alumni association can do for me is take
money from me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May  2 17:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The frequency at which I'm referring to the 857 textbook is
disturbing me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May  2 17:49:59 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

857 has a textbook?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May  2 17:50:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We did last year. (Well, two, one fairly mathematical one and then
"Cryptography Engineering") Admittedly, they were "recommended" not
"required"

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 19:56:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

crypto.stackexchange.com

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 19:58:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

You know the rage comic "look of utter terror"?
I just did exactly that.

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 20:00:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"How really secured Advanced Encryption Standard(Rijndael)? with some
scientific explanation. that's why they come up to used it to protect
top secret file."

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 20:01:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I imagine this becoming a delightful mixture of academic cryptography
discussion (a la mathoverflow) and "HOW 2 ENCRYPT FILE IN JAVA??!????"

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 20:03:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

HOW IS IV FORMED
HOW HASH GET SALTED

Class: geofft Instance: terrifying-things
Time: Wed May  2 20:04:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This reminds me of the StackOverflow question where someone was
generating an AES key from OpenSSL's PRNG, and seeding that from
rand(), and seeding that from time(NULL)

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Wed May  2 21:00:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate-based_encryption
Does this article make any sense at all?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 21:54:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... REALLY? a ptracer can _catch_ SIGKILL on the ptracee?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 21:55:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

waaaat

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:14:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

At a guess, it can catch it and take action, but can't actually
prevent the process from dying?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:15:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

i.e. as soon as you continue it, it will die

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:17:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I need to play with it more. That's what lldb on, like, /bin/sh
is doing, but lldb in Xcode on the iOS simulator [apps compiled for
the iOS simulator are compiled for x86 and run on the host machine in
like a chroot or something] _seems_ to actually quash it. It's
possible that Xcode configures lldb to quash signals instead of
deliver them?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:17:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I need to play with it more. That's what lldb on, like, /bin/sh
is doing, but lldb in Xcode on the iOS simulator [apps compiled for
the iOS simulator are compiled for x86 and run on the host machine in
like a chroot or something] _seems_ to actually quash it. It's
possible that Xcode configures lldb to quash signals instead of
deliver them?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:17:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I know that's a gdb configuration knob.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:17:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I know that's a gdb configuration knob.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:20:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I should actually try it with ptrace(2) instead of lldb...
"Or I could get back to work"

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:20:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I should actually try it with ptrace(2) instead of lldb...
"Or I could get back to work"

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:21:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You should use dtruss to see the ptrace(2) calls from lldb

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:24:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't actually know anything about dtruss.... The last time I used
something similar, it was called just "truss" and this was on 10.0?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May  2 22:32:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Me either.  All I know is, it's like strace

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May  2 22:45:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why is update-manager wiggling?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May  2 22:45:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Because it is sexy and it knows it?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May  2 22:48:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that playing NetHack is like walking into a death trap.
 <rnjacobs>

there was a free software that swallowed a spider /
it wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May  2 22:53:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

update-notifier? but I just met her

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May  2 22:53:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

VMWARE-USBARBITRATOR
Y U NO ARBITRATE USB

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:04:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(default pager): [KERNEL]: ps_allocate_cluster - send HI_WAT_ALERT

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:04:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Hi. wat?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:06:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

As in, high water alert. You're using too much RAM.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:06:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well that's a silly way of spelling that

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:07:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Localizing that must be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Wed May  2 23:13:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, it just means it's going to start swapping when it wnas't before.
It's not realyl a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed May  2 23:40:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of these days I should stop staying at work so late that I don't
have time to either go grocery shopping or cook

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May  2 23:48:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Thu May  3 00:21:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think it might also turn into a notification that gets broadcast to
all the apps on the system, asking them to release memory.

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Thu May  3 00:22:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. Does OS X overcommit?

Class: geofft Instance: osx.dmesg.q
Time: Thu May  3 00:22:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Does *BSD?)

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Thu May  3 00:41:18 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. <brians>

Yes, more or less.  take gpg-style asymmetric encryption and add an
ibe layer over it.  use the public key as the identity.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Thu May  3 00:45:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoaaaaa, how did I miss b9517cf7????

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu May  3 05:26:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> the X Resource extension now allows client applications to request
> more information about other clients, including their process IDs

woooo!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu May  3 05:27:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Several components are now marked as deprecated, specifically the
> nested and virtual X servers Xvfb, Xnest, Xephyr, and Xfake. All are
> designed to either display their contents inside another X server or
> to render content into a virtual framebuffer. The plan is for both
> types of functionality to eventually be replaced by substitute video
> _drivers_, xf86-video-nested and xf86-video-dummy. The functionality
> will remain unchanged, but with less maintenance demanded of the
> project.

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu May  3 05:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Last but by no means least, the project has migrated its
> documentation to DocBook. That documentation includes the X protocol
> as well as the APIs and ABIs. Previously the documentation existed in
> a variety of different formats

woooooooooo!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu May  3 05:30:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> I am not making up the fact that I had a nightmare last night in which
> r12 (ARM IP register) was trying to kill me. I might have spent too
> long staring at kernel disassembly over the weekend.
> -- Jon Masters

Uhhh

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 05:56:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does Haskell really not have a competent non-ASCII story?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 05:56:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does Haskell really not have a competent non-ASCII story?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 05:59:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's quite a loaded question ;P

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 05:59:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's quite a loaded question ;P

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:01:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's pretty reasonable:

  - Char is a Unicode codepoint
  - String = [Char]
  - For efficient packed storage of text, use the 'text' package
  - Haskell source is UTF-8

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:01:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's pretty reasonable:

  - Char is a Unicode codepoint
  - String = [Char]
  - For efficient packed storage of text, use the 'text' package
  - Haskell source is UTF-8

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:01:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do I do [Word8] -> [Char]?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:01:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

How do I do [Word8] -> [Char]?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

'text' has the most common character encodings, and if you want
there's a binding for all of ICU:
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/text-icu

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:02:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Well, there are many functions of type [Word8] -> [Char] ;P

http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/text/0.11.2.0/doc/html/Data-Text-Encoding.html
has the most common character encodings, as ByteString -> Text

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:02:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Possibly Encoding -> [Word8] -> [Char], but something that curries
UTF-8 would be quite fine)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:03:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://hackage.haskell.org/package/utf8-string has more interfaces to
UTF-8 specifically

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:03:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

afaict, utf8-string replaces System.IO, but I'm not using that

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:03:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It does other things besides replace System.IO

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:04:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, missed that.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:05:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I should also note that standard library IO only uses the locale
encoding as of GHC 6.12.  If you want to support older GHC or hardcode
a specific encoding, ByteString IO is the way to go

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:06:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I actually do want ByteString -> String, with the caveat that I don't
want Data.ByteString.Char8, afaict)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:06:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, approximately none of my code is in the IO monad

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:06:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Data.ByteString.Char8 is a terrible hack and basically should not exist

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:07:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although that _is_ an approximately. Hrm. There may be some
opportunities for turning unwrapped burritos into
Data.ByteString.Char8 objects

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:07:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ok then

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:08:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The type in Data.ByteString.Char8 is the same type as
Data.ByteString.  The former module gives you functions for pretending
it's made out of Chars instead of Word8s, which is plainly not the
case

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:09:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's another in a proud line of tools to make life easier for lazy
programmers who speak English, at the expense of the rest of the world

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:11:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aha, excellent, so T.unpack . decodeUTF8 is basically what I want

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:11:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Sounds reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 06:12:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Will try that after I get some sleep. Thanks

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Thu May  3 11:12:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

>> Several components are now marked as deprecated [such as] Xephyr and Xfake

(big stark) of course, although they've decided to deprecate the old way of
doing things, they've taken more than a year now without figuring how to deal
with "ordinary X server needs elevated permissions to access hardware; Xvfb
and friends explicitly need no permissions at all so that anyone can run it"
and I think they're just waiting until Linus hands them a solution.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 17:56:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Debian: The Universal(*) Operating System

(*) Unless you're a ham, in which case we'll scare you off with
badass rockstar technology until you remove your ham radio packages
from Debian

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 17:58:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

people are removing ham radio stuff from debian?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 17:59:48 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "Hello," he lied. -- Don Carpenter quoting a Hollywood agent <eichin>

is this just node vs node?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 18:00:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 18:00:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kcr: Well, the dude who maintains ham!node is going "well, my other
co-maintainers haven't been heard from, I might as well remove all the
packet radio stuff if this is how things are going"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Thu May  3 18:01:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/20120503212829.GP19468@flying-gecko.net

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:12:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Named after the ferocious three-headed watch dog in Greek mythology,
Kerberos is MIT’s proprietary technology that guards our network - and
your data -  from cyber threats."

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:12:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Named after the ferocious three-headed watch dog in Greek mythology,
Kerberos is MIT’s proprietary technology that guards our network - and
your data -  from cyber threats."

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:13:30 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Whoops, guess it's time to change the license.

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:13:39 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(And close down the IETF working group.)

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:15:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, i,i "cyber threats, e.g., a single-DES cracker"

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:15:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hey, now, wg-kerberos-des-die-die-die was approved last week.

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:16:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No relation to alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die?

Class: geofft Instance: ist.wq
Time: Thu May  3 18:17:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

As far as I know.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:26:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I want a {{wat}} tag

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:27:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or a {{srsly?}} one

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:29:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Current target: "So even though EAP-TLS provides excellent security,
the overhead of client-side certificates may be its [[Achilles'
heel]].")

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:32:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, sweet, {{wtf?}} and {{what}} both expand to {{clarify}} (i.e.,
[clarification needed]).

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:33:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sounds like you should have no trouble getting {wat}, then.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Thu May  3 18:35:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, I actually want it to stick a superscript [wat] in the text.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 19:08:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

bluh, wifi

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 19:14:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Relatedly, bluh, NetworkManager

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:50:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Graaaahhhh. Dude. I want a [Word8] -> Maybe String, not a [Word8] ->
String that throws exceptions

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:50:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear every single Haskell library, why is this so hard?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:51:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Or a Monad m => [Word8] -> m String, but I can use the 'maybe (fail
"foo") return' trick, so whatever)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:52:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

If you don’t find a better idea, there’s always
http://hackage.haskell.org/package/spoon

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:53:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think it's because the standard library is full of bad practices

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:53:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Prelude in particular

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:53:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I came to Haskell in search of a beautiful, correct language. I'm
going to go back to Python now :-(

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:55:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

It looks like the decode function in utf8-string gives you
replacement characters instead of throwing exceptions.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:56:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

If you need to check whether something decoded without errors, you
can just encode it again and compare with the original.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:57:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I was using Data.Text on Keegan's recommendation from last night

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:57:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and decodeUtf8 does in fact throw exceptions.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

decodeUtf8With :: OnDecodeError -> ByteString -> Text

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:57:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh hey, how did I miss that. Also decodeUtf8'.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:59:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wat, either isn't a monad?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 19:59:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think Haskell is a pretty good language if you approach it as a
programming language, and not as a mathematical object of pure beauty
which will singlehandedly save the world from bad software.  But there
are a lot of people pushing the latter view

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:00:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

import Control.Monad.Instances

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:00:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't really care about the mathematical beauty, but I am trying to
save the world from bad software

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:02:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Either has too many type parameters to be a monad, doesn't it?
(Either a) is a monad.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:02:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Either has too many type parameters to be a monad, doesn't it?
(Either a) is a monad.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:02:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah.  In older versions of the stdlib, you have an (Error a)
constraint which is kind of silly

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:02:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah.  In older versions of the stdlib, you have an (Error a)
constraint which is kind of silly

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:03:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It exists to convert the string argument to "fail" into a value for
Left

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:04:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

imo "fail" should not be in Monad, but some additional type class, so
you could have

  instance              Monad     (Either a)
  instance (Error a) => MonadFail (Either a)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:04:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This is one of the regressions from Haskell 1.4 to Haskell 98

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:04:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's right, I liked their earlier work better

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Thu May  3 20:06:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"instance TypedHipster Keegan where ..."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 20:11:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The trouble with naming our product "BareMetal" is it makes it hard to
talk about Windows running on BareMetal vs. Windows running on, well,
bare metal

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 20:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

Also, "MokaFive BareMetal" primes me to expect that each subsequent
word in the sentence will ActuallyBe TwoWords.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 20:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

YeahWell.

Class: geofft Instance: rfc1994.q
Time: Thu May  3 20:53:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> Special thanks to Dave Balenson, Steve Crocker, James Galvin, and
> Steve Kent, for their extensive explanations and suggestions.  Now,
> if only we could get them to agree with each other.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 21:17:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... Why does Windows believe the drivers for my CPU aren't installed

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 21:26:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why does windows think your CPU needs drivers?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 21:26:29 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Microcode.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May  3 21:26:56 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Also, power management.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:36:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh ugh, I bet my taxes next year are going to be nontrivial.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:36:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Clearly I should have stayed in grad school

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:36:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

you have one job and live in one state

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:40:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

unless that changes, it should be easy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:41:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Taxes aren't hard, it's just (e)paperwork

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:42:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

TurboTax Online is good if your taxes are easy and nontrivial

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:43:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000059.html

> "But wait!" you say. "It's important to have options for advanced
> users who want to tweak their environments!" In reality, it's not as
> important as you think. This reminds me of when I tried to switch to a
> Dvorak keyboard. The trouble was, I don't use one computer. I use all
> kinds of computers. I use other people's computers. I use three
> computers fairly regularly at home and three at work. I use computers
> in the test lab at work. The trouble with customizing your environment
> is that it just doesn't propagate, so it's not even worth the trouble.

> Most advanced users use several computers regularly; they upgrade
> their computer every couple of years, they reinstall their operating
> system every three weeks. It's true that the first time they realized
> you could completely remap the keyboard in Word, they changed
> everything around to be more to their liking, but as soon as they
> upgraded to Windows 95 those settings got lost, and they weren't the
> same at work, and eventually they just stopped reconfiguring things.
> I've asked a lot of my "power user" friends about this; hardly any of
> them do any customization other than the bare minimum necessary to
> make their system behave reasonably.

==

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:43:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

lizdenys: In 2011 I had one job and lived in one state and my tax
paperwork was insane

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:44:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Haha, you're reading Joel Spolsky

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:45:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

Generally speaking, that means that there are only a limited number of
games you can play.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:45:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

> Most advanced users use several computers regularly... they
> reinstall their operating system every three weeks

Even as hyperbole, I don't know what this is supposed to mean.  I've
used the same OS install on the same hard drive in each of the last 3
laptops I've owned

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I never understood why people talk about configuration as some
insurmountable barrier to using Dvorak.  It comes standard with every
OS... hell, when I went to Microcenter to try out laptops, I was able
to switch their display models in a matter of seconds

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:48:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I did switch from Programmer's Dvorak to regular Dvorak for this
reason, though)

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The biggest trouble I had was on an Athena workstation, and as far as
I can tell, it's because GNOME's keyboard layout switcher is buggy as
all hell (which is a real bug for people who use multiple languages,
not just weirdos like me)

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:49:16 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You know how I keep not reconfiguring every time I reinstall? I keep my
configuration separate. And then when I reinstall? I copy it over and it works
@i{fine} and bam! no Gnome or KDE or other crap getting in my way.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:49:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, Dvorak is not the argument, but I think things like Programmer's
is

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:50:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I rewrote my Emacs configuration from scratch a few years ago, but
I've just been copying around the same one since.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:50:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The other fallacy is that if you use Dvorak, it's somehow impossible
to use QWERTY when you have to use other people's machines

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:51:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Anyway you should imagine every sentence Joel writes to have
"[citation needed]" at the end

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:52:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've seen people with that issue!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 21:52:28 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

it was insane because Oracle. 

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:52:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But Joel's argument is not "you shouldn't use Dvorak", it's "you
shouldn't build in configuration".

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:53:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's worth pointing out that down that path lies GNOME 3/Unity.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:53:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

In general he seems pretty out of touch; his company's entire identity
is based on not being Microsoft circa 1996

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:53:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Like I don't actually do anything nontrivial in .vimrc because I use
vim in enough places that I don't want to be used to geofft-vim and
normal-vim as separate things. I do definitely use vim and not
emacs/nano/gedit, though.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:53:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And yes, his problems with windows computers exist; that's why I mostly don't
use windows anymore. But "Man, Apple and Mac users must have it so easy
because they tell their users what to put up with" seems to be the gist of his
argument and it's bullshit.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:53:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And I do use GNOME 3.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:55:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I have Vim configured to do various things I like, but not to a degree
where I can't use unconfigured Vim

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:55:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, I do too. It's just funny to sometimes see people slag Joel's
argument here on the one hand and then turn around and slag GNOME for
being insufficiently configurable.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:55:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the only Emacs customization I really can't live without is
black background/white foreground, and that's trivial to just do from
*scratch* or M-: if necessary.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:55:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

otoh my window manager config is completely nonstandard because I
switched from Ion3 to XMonad and didn't want to relearn

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:56:16 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: If you want to rob a shop, train your dog.
 <rnjacobs>

Isn't his argument here nothing but justifying the GNOME lack of
configurability? Or am I misreading it?

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's also worth pointing out that configuration is not just a matter
of power user wanker tweaking.  Some people have very good reasons why
they absolutely cannot use your software in its default configuration.
Like physical disability.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:59:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I have an xmonad.hs that I copy around and a .gitignore that I
copy around and a .bashrc that I copy around... that's about it.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

er, .gitconfig.

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 21:59:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

xmonad.hs breaks fairly often due to XMonad or GHC upgrades

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 22:01:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, hasn't happened to me. But I don't override all that much from
defaultConfig

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 22:02:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

This argument is silly.  Another way of looking at it is "you should make it
trivial to propagate parts of your config you're used to."

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 22:09:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That's not quite true, because while e.g. Chrome has a "log in to
Chrome" button, I often will use other people's browsers, and not want
to log in to my Chrome settings or merge my Chrome settings with
theirs

Class: geofft Instance: joel
Time: Thu May  3 22:10:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(fortunately those sorts of settings don't entail anything near as
customizey as say .vimrc or xmonad.hs allow you to customize)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 22:23:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"RSA SecurID tokens are lead free, and use a low voltage 3.3 volt
lithium battery. When new, a token has less than .5 grams of lithium.
This amount decreases as the token is used."

... okay, I'm kind of worried now

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 22:23:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ternus (Boston) <ternus>

RSA SecurIDs: now powered by 3.3V nuclear batteries.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 22:50:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Haha, ==Luke, that's not exactly the common csae.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 23:17:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Square Thru 3 <kchen>

I gave up on TurboTax online after I had a problem it couldn't
handle, I called their support line, they were useless and tried to
keep uselessly helping me as I tried to politely end the call.  (The
issue was wash sales combined with employee stock purchase plans.  It
can handle either by itself, but not in combination.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu May  3 23:17:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Fan The Top, Others U-Turn Back <kchen>

(Their hold music also claimed it would be the best support experience
ever.  It was my worst.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu May  3 23:20:25 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: Paul W. Quimby <pquimby>

Why is the music so low quality? Verizon's wait music is terrible and
distorted.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:42:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

kees         I need to present my new "survive my USB stick" challenge :P
infinity     I'm not sure I want to take part in this challenge.
infinity     Sounds sketchy.
kees         I didn't weaponize it too much!
infinity     That's not comforting. ;)

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:44:21 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

huh?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:44:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What, you haven't seen the recent rash of CVEs about buffer overflows
in partition table / filesystem header / etc. parsers?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:45:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The kernel talks to the device during the probing process when you
plug it in.  You ... would hope that part of the kernel does not have
bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:45:08 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, I've not.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:45:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Did you miss _why_ we were trying to unmount every partition on
Linerva without anyone noticing?

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q.d
Time: Thu May  3 23:45:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I also have this habit of writing zeros over a USB stick and
reformatting it before actually using it.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu May  3 23:46:13 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I fully admit I wasn't paying attention to linerav.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q.d
Time: Thu May  3 23:46:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm quite disappointed that debian-installer doesn't seem to wipe
disks particularly thoroughly -- for instance, if you have LVM
already set up, it doesn't stick a new LVM header on the disk and
uses the existing one.

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q.d
Time: Thu May  3 23:47:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Perhaps an option for zeroing the disk (and using libguestfs, maybe?)
would be useful.

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 02:56:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Augh

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 02:57:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sups and sandwich theorems: the bread and butter of analysis. <ageng>

"now *there's* an auspicious combination of instance and body."

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 02:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The _one time_ I lose my driver's license you have to pull me over???

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 02:59:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

:(

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 03:00:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Branched double cover all the way across the complex plane! <ageng>

(Did you find it again?)

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 03:38:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Was driving home. I'll have to look for it.

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 04:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... this ticket claims my race is "W"

Class: geofft Instance: police
Time: Fri May  4 12:16:00 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

Huh, I don't think my ticket listed my race the last time I got a
ticket in the Bay Area.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri May  4 16:00:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Busybox has systemd support now?

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Fri May  4 17:47:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> No matter how careful your programming habits, sometimes things don’t
> work right the first time. Kernel panics are simply a fact of life
> during development of kernel extensions or other in-kernel code.
> 
> There are a number of ways to track down problems in kernel code. In
> many cases, you can find the problem through careful use of printf or
> IOLog statements. Some people swear by this method, and indeed, given
> sufficient time and effort, any bug can be found and fixed without
> using a debugger.
> 
> Of course, the key words in that statement are “given sufficient time
> and effort.” For the rest of us, there are debuggers: gdb and ddb.

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Fri May  4 17:48:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Some people swear by this method; others, at it."

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Fri May  4 17:52:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, ⌘⌥⇧⌃⎋ is an NMI?

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Fri May  4 17:55:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I guess that replaces the old physical NMI switch that brought up
macsbug or microbug?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri May  4 18:26:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri May  4 18:26:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri May  4 18:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I'm most confused by the résumé service.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Fri May  4 18:29:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The FAQ is missing the most important question.

Class: geofft Instance: also-what
Time: Fri May  4 18:31:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/OpenSource/Conceptual/ShellScripting/AnExtremeExample/AnExtremeExample.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004268-TP40003515-SW4

Class: geofft Instance: also-what
Time: Fri May  4 18:31:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"The Monte Carlo method for calculating Pi is a common example
program used in computer science curricula. Most CS professors do not
force their students to write it using a shell script, however, and
doing so poses a number of challenges."

Class: geofft Instance: also-what
Time: Fri May  4 18:32:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Finding Ordinal Rank Using tr And sed

"This example was written less out of a desire to actually use such a
method and more out of a desire to prove that such code is possible.
It is, by far, the most roundabout way to calculate the ordinal rank
of a character that you are likely to ever encounter."

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q.d
Time: Fri May  4 20:43:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Those were rendered as single-width, but they really look like they
should be double-width.

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q.d.prnf
Time: Fri May  4 20:44:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yo momma's so fat, she renders as triple-width.

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q.d.prnf
Time: Fri May  4 20:44:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yo momma's so slow and ugly, she makes mosh back off exponentially.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:07:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Am I supposed to feel proud about being able to reliably segfault
Xcode, or is it actually a piece of crap?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:07:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

stack trace, plz?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:07:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Err....

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:08:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

sent in personals

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:10:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

oof:
Thread 3 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.dtdevicekit.appIcons
0   libssl.0.9.7.dylib                  0x0000000117463acc SSL_write + 4

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:11:19 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Like, 0.9.7? That implies SSLeay, yes?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:11:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that is marginally sketchy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:11:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't know what dynamic libraries are on this system. Blame Apple.
(I hope.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:12:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, jhawk, while you're here, is it an OpenRadar policy not to
include publicly-known radar numbers that weren't filed by an
OpenRadar user?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:12:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

0.9.7 was December 2002, but I don't think it was SSLeay?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:12:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I've been running into lots of random comments in public source with
rdar:// URLs and not finding them on OpenRadar)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:12:48 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I'm not aware of such a policy, but I don't know the maintainers.
I assume nobody has bothered to submit them because they don't have the
proper text of them.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:13:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, some rdar:// urls actually appear in apple libraries and include
files and whatnot.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:13:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess is it a policy to repro the exact text instead of "This is an
issue about foo, as referenced in bar and also baz"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:13:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

'Cause that would be marginally useful.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:13:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

e.g.:
platinum-bar2:include jhawk$ grep rdar sys/protosw.h 
 * See rdar://7617868: pr_fasttimo was removed use your own timer or pr_slowtimo instead
platinum-bar2:include jhawk$ 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:13:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I don't think anyone would object if you posted such things.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May  4 21:14:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Cool.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri May  4 22:38:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As opposed to a liturgy hipster, i.e., Eastern Orthodox

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri May  4 22:38:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Our liturgy is five hours long, you probably haven't heard it"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri May  4 22:38:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Roman primacy? Too mainstream"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:54:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear Haskell,

Consider sucking less.

No love,
geofft

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:54:48 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Having trouble getting this to typecheck:
safeToEnum :: (Enum a, Bounded a, Monad m) => Int -> m a
safeToEnum x = if (x >= fromEnum (minBound :: a)) && (x <= fromEnum (maxBound :: a)) 
                  then return $ toEnum x
                  else fail "safeToEnum: value out of range"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:55:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I originally didn't have those type annotations, but I can see why
you'd want them.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:56:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That said, having added them, Haskell seems to think the "a" in that
context is different from the "a" in the previous line, and no amount
of annotating the argument to return seems to convince it otherwise

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:57:04 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Oh, that requires ScopedTypeVariables.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:57:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:57:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why would I want to scope my type variables, what's wrong with that
function

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:57:52 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

No, I mean ScopedTypeVariables lets you tell Haskell 'the a in the
definition is the same as the a in the type'

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:57:55 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Scoped_type_variables

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:58:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also I wouldn't need this function if the frickin' standard library
were frickin' typesafe instead of thinking Java is cool for throwing
unchecked exceptions everywhere and copying that)

Class: geofft Instance: unhaskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:59:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Technically it only lets you tell GHC that, not Haskell ;P

Class: geofft Instance: unhaskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:59:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Technically it only lets you tell GHC that, not Haskell ;P

Class: geofft Instance: unhaskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:59:35 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

"There are non-GHC compilers?"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Fri May  4 23:59:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also on notice for being ridiculously unsafe: pattern matches)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:00:13 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Doesn't GHC tell you if you have incomplete pattern matches?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:00:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Yes, when it crashes your program because of it"

Class: geofft Instance: unhaskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:00:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You mean "There's a spec?"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:00:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yes, with -Wall, usually

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:01:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

O_o barnowl supports uninstances and not just unclasses in its
narrowing.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:01:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well how are you _supposed_ to make fun of nhoward's political views
otherwise?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:01:56 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Not knowing who that is strikes me as a good thing?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:02:06 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

-i white-magic's resident conservative.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:02:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm not sure "conservative" is the right term, unless you mean
conservative in the amount of effort he spends in being not
completely naive

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:02:58 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I continue to be glad I'm not subbed to anything in -c message other
than consult and network

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:03:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I'd rather name rlcarr and merolish as conservatives.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 00:03:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think I'd rather name rlcarr and merolish as conservatives.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:04:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hey phurst, since you said Haskell is "a language ideally suited for
reasoning about code by machines", what are some good static analysis
tools for Haskell?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:04:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hey phurst, since you said Haskell is "a language ideally suited for
reasoning about code by machines", what are some good static analysis
tools for Haskell?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:05:37 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Wait, I said that?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:05:37 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Wait, I said that?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:05:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's in the blurb for your IAP Haskell course.  I guess price said it
first?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:06:43 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Oh, yeah that was price. I'm not aware of any offhand.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:06:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It may be that Haskell is *suitable* for static analysis, but I don't
know about many tools.  Whereas C is completely unsuitable but has a
shitload of tools, because it's industrially important

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:07:13 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

You're probably right.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:08:01 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

anyway, this typechecks:

{-# LANGUAGE ScopedTypeVariables #-}
safeToEnum :: forall a m. (Enum a, Bounded a, Monad m) => Int -> m a
safeToEnum x = if (x >= fromEnum (minBound)) && (x <= fromEnum (maxBound))
                   then return $ toEnum x
                   else fail "safeToEnum: value out of range"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:08:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

GHC typechecker and HLint are both good for what they do, but neither
approaches the sort of static analysis available for C or Java

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:08:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think someone had a refactoring tool that bitrotted

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:09:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Er, you shouldn't need ScopedTypeVariables there because you've
dropped the type ascriptions

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:09:19 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Whoops. You need the type signatures on minBound and maxBound too.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:09:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

geofft, you might like

  http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/safe/0.3.3/doc/html/Safe.html

but I don't think it has the Enum functions

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:10:29 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

(without the type signatures on the bounds it doesn't compile at all,
since it has no clue what instance to use)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:15:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hey, at least in Java you get a backtrace for those exceptions

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:15:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's like advanced experimental technology in the Haskell world

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:15:44 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Why are backtraces so hard in Haskell, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:16:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Because the GHC runtime stack is nothing like a function call stack

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:16:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Rather, it's a stack of nested this-forces-that, which is usually not
useful for profiling or finding exceptions

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:16:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

So the backtrace stuff tries to piggyback on the GHC profiling stack,
but I dunno if it works yet

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:18:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> this typechecks
Yeah, got there. Finally everything I wrote on the train this week
typechecks woo. Thanks

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:24:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Just for laffs, the way you'd write this in standard Haskell would be
something like

  safeToEnum :: (Enum a, Bounded a) => Int -> Maybe a
  safeToEnum x = ret where
    as_a = (`asTypeOf` fromJust ret)
    ret | (x >= fromEnum (as_a minBound)) && (x <= fromEnum (as_a maxBound))
          = Just (toEnum x)
        | otherwise = Nothing

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:25:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's harder if you want to return an arbitrary monadic value, like
your version did, because there's no analog to fromJust

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:25:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

asTypeOf is a Prelude function like so:

  asTypeOf :: a -> a -> a
  asTypeOf x _ = x

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:26:18 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...haskell is striking me as a language in which emotes will evaluate
to something.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:27:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://hpaste.org/51474

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:28:52 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Sadly you can't use _ in infix operator names since it's grouped with
the alphanumerics, so ^_^ is a no-go.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:30:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm sure there is an identical-looking symbol character somewhere in
the vast wastelands of Unicode

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:49:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> `asTypeOf`

Yeah, that occured to me.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:56:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although I'm not having terribly much luck with

safeToEnum' :: (Enum a, Bounded a, Monad m) => Int -> m a
safeToEnum' x = let dummy = undefined in
                    if (x >= fromEnum (minBound `asTypeOf` dummy)) && (x <= fromEnum (maxBound `asTypeOf` dummy))
                    then return $ (toEnum x) `asTypeOf` dummy
                    else fail "safeToEnum: value out of range"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:58:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think that's because 'let' bindings are polymorphic

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 00:59:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

safeToEnum' x = (\dummy -> ... stuff ...) undefined

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 01:03:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> arbitrary monadic value

Right, I was going to complain about Safe. The _whole reason_ we have
this business about all Monads being MonadFails is so that you can do
fail in the middle of some random do-expression and have that be
reasonable. At that point Maybe doesn't really provide that much (in
fact it quashes the error -- ∀ a x y, (fail x :: Maybe a) = (fail y ::
Maybe x) -- so it's less useful than an arbitrary monad), so there's
no reason for things to be returning Maybe a instead of Monad m => m
a. It _might_ be fine if there were an operator to convert Maybes to
arbitrary monads, but that's still suboptimal.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 01:05:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> price said it first
I did manage to disappoint him with the implicit overflow in (255 ::
Word8) + 1. So hopefully he has changed his mind on that claim.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d.java
Time: Sat May  5 01:16:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://java.dzone.com/articles/throwing-undeclared-checked
lol

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

disturbingly dayshifted. I think I'll make this -Wall-clean and call
it a night

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

disturbingly dayshifted. I think I'll make this -Wall-clean and call
it a night

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:32:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:32:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe I'll just call it a night.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:33:14 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You have firstworldproblems
I wish I was tired enough to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:36:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Melatonin.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:36:48 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

This is more of a "you idiot, why did you fall asleep after your alarm
and wake up around 2" problem than a melatonin problem.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:38:17 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

(which was a result of 2 nearly-all-nighters in a row)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:40:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I bet you can still do dumb things by throwing sufficient
non-prescription drugs at the problem

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:40:49 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I dislike that solution.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:41:04 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I even dislike melatonin, because although it works I don't feel
_rested_ after it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:41:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, not actually true for me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:42:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

although I care less about "rested" than "awake and alert", and
caffeine is a tasty non-prescription drug

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:43:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That said, I haven't actually been doing much melatonin recently.
Mostly it's semi-consistently sleeping at 11 and waking at 7, and
waking at 7 whether or not I slept at 11 (I find normalizing wake time
is easier than normalizing sleep time), and having a room with a big
window facing the sunrise.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:43:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

and never needing to do all-nighters or otherwise have irregular sleep
schedules, which gets easier when you're not a student...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May  5 01:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also my brain is still late-shifted, which is annoying.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:18:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> Hey [price], since you said Haskell is "a language ideally suited for
> reasoning about code by machines", what are some good static analysis
> tools for Haskell?

What I had in mind was actually the Haskell typechecker.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:20:15 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not in that it catches all bugs or even all the kinds of bugs that a
heavy-duty static analyzer might catch, but in that you *can* manipulate
it into checking pretty high-level aspects of your code.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:23:03 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

One of the examples in my talk (*) set up the types so that a well-typed
function would have to implement the network protocol specified in the
type.  (For a certain level of detail in "specifying a protocol".)

(*) not presenting original work; the example came from a friend who's a
PL grad student

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:23:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Oh, like
http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/sessions/2008.7.18/doc/html/Control-Concurrent-Session.html

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:24:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The thing is, I don't want to read or write code which looks like that

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:24:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This is an extreme case -- I know there are more reasonable session
types libraries, even

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:24:24 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That documentation does look pretty ugly; I don't know anything about
that particular library.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:24:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But I think there are pretty serious diminishing returns on proving
semantic properties using the GHC typechecker

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:25:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, I don't have a high degree of confidence that you'd really want to
use session types in a big program.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:26:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You end up with 400 lines of insane type-level hacks to prove a basic
property about 100 lines of code.  And now you have 400 lines of
unproven code instead of 100

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:26:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(And no reason to believe it will work in the next version of GHC or
the previous)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:26:55 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

No, I don't quite buy that.  In a big program, you're proving a property
about much more than 100 lines of code.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:28:05 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I would worry about whether I could express the properties I really
wanted, without unreasonably complicating the code I'm proving the
properties about.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:28:38 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Here are my slides from (the pertinent section of) that talk:
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/hackhaskell/slides/cluedump.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:29:19 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(I guess
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/2008/hackhaskell/slides/cluedump.pdf
is the actual permalink)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Cool

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:31:18 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Thanks, glad you like it.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:31:18 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Thanks, glad you like it.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:31:27 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It looks like my examples were
 * STM
 * session types (which I called "protocol types" because I figured that
   would be more meaningful to people not immersed in the literature)
 * physical dimensions as types (briefly)
 * runST (briefly)
 * "theorems for free" (briefly)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:33:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I guess when you say "reasoning about code by machines" I thought
about model checkers, symbolic evaluators like KLEE, semantic
grep/patch, dependently-typed theorem proving, all that stuff

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:34:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And there aren't many tools (that I know of) for applying that stuff
to full Haskell programs

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:34:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There *is* a lot of work using Haskell as an implementation or host
language for domain-specific languages which admit such analysis

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:34:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Anyway I do agree with your statement at face value, that Haskell is
suitable for these things, I just think the suitability is
under-exploited :)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:38:58 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, I agree -- it'd be fun to see static analyzers going beyond the
type system (and yet taking advantage of it to do things more easily than
for C.)  I sympathize with the people choosing to prioritize tools for
languages like C, because I do find their papers more impressive when
they can operate on lots of code in the wild.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:39:53 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

My cluedump title was "Haskell: Compiler as Theorem-Prover", so I don't
think anyone was fooled at the time about what theorem-proving tool I had
in mind.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 06:42:50 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(OK, I guess my IAP title and description weren't specific on this
point.  But for anyone who showed up, it was clear.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 11:44:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Let me read your slides, but my instinct is that Haskell's type system
is insufficiently powerful to pull off the property of "a function of
this type must implement this protocol" for arbitrary protocols. I'm
having a hard time coming up with a protocol I care about that doesn't
have something like a Content-Length field, at which point you want
dependent types

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 11:44:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(And that the language proper is too unconstrained by the type system;
see whining about unchecked exceptions on this instance)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 11:47:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess that's a reasonable question itself -- can I get the compiler
or someone to say "there are no uncaught exceptions in this code"?
Enforcing exhaustive pattern matches is part of it, but so are things
like making sure I don't call any functions that do throw exceptions
(like divide by zero) and not letting me do thlngs like irrefutable
patterns

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 11:48:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also it would be nice if I could stop having opinions about
programming languages, since I'm not a PL researcher and it will take
way too long for me to be qualified to be one

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 11:50:17 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That's just creeping credentialism.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell.d
Time: Sat May  5 11:50:43 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

More seriously, you're allowed to have opinions,
but you might need more background to make assertions.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May  5 11:52:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In another life I'd go "ooh, how does it not work?"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May  5 11:52:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But I guess in that other life I'd be in Boston.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 13:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also things like "this function terminates"

Class: geofft Instance: mail.ttants
Time: Sat May  5 14:02:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

uds-announce
uds-discuss
uds-three-people-reply-to-every-inane-thread

Class: geofft Instance: mail.ttants
Time: Sat May  5 14:03:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

oh right, UDS is starting

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May  5 14:05:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh right, I have some patches for barnowl. How are you supposed to
submit those these days? Github?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May  5 14:05:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I guess?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May  5 14:06:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's the point of viewperson?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 14:25:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I'm amused how geofft istaking the more extremist position (stark)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 16:51:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I don’t think Content-Length fields present a problem for Haskell
session types.  We have plenty of implementations of type-level
naturals (and it looks like GHC 7.6 will even have a built in
implementation).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 16:56:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"But do we want those implementations"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 16:58:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

That’s up to you, but Haskell’s type system isn’t insufficiently
powerful for it.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I do have to admit that after being dunked in Coq for a semester, I've also
become more skeptical of the "drag Haskell to dependent types" land

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Is this actually equivalent to dragging Haskell to dependent types
land, though?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:02:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

In my mind, type level computation ===> dependent types

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:05:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think most of the pain in Coq is inflicted by nonsense like
dependent match clauses that really is consequence of the more
literal definition of dependent types (types that depend on values).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:05:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think most of the pain in Coq is inflicted by nonsense like
dependent match clauses that really is consequence of the more
literal definition of dependent types (types that depend on values).

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:07:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Having not played with the proposed implementations, I could be
wrong.)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:11:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

OK, so you could have a stratified system

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:12:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, taking the Content-Length example, suppose that I have an
HttpResponse type, and I want to specifically say that a valid object
of that type respects the Content-Length setting. (Ignore encodings
and such for now.) Then we basically want the type constructor to take
arguments of type [(String, String)] for headers and String for the
response body, with the requirement that if you look up
"Content-Length" in the header alist, you get the length of the body.
That essentially requires type level computation, no?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:14:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Or you can just not include the Content-Length header and have it be
implied by the length of the body, which helps with ~DRY, but means
you can't actually represent the structure, you're generating random
parts of it in the serializer and dropping random parts of it in the
deserializer)

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:17:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

We were talking about protocols, not data storage; that’s a different
problem.  No, Haskell doesn’t let you take an unconstrained data type
and then impose constraints on it via the type system.  You have to
write a different data type for that.  Which you can do.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sat May  5 17:17:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The one that you propose parenthetically sounds like a perfectly
reasonable one.

Class: geofft Instance: mitblogs.com
Time: Sat May  5 19:33:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: mitblogs.com
Time: Sat May  5 19:33:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

... oh Chris

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:44:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Google 'red-african american trees'.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:45:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

As someone who's grandfather is mostly black and part cherokee,
I am amused.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:46:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also i,i "Tyson Homosexual")

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

That reminds me of the Reddit thread about how no matter how badly you
describe a movie, Google will always find its imdb page. (But
[site:reddit.com badly describe movie imdb google] doesn't work.)

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Ah, [site:reddit.com "that movie where" google] was enough
http://www.reddit.com/r/google/comments/r8oyx/google_vs_bing_trying_to_search_for_a_movie/

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:53:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, [hot girl and explosions site:imdb.com] totally does not find me
Transformers.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:53:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh, [hot girl and explosions site:imdb.com] totally does not find me
Transformers.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:54:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although apparently if I like these things I should watch "Xam'd: Lost
Memories"?

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:54:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Although apparently if I like these things I should watch "Xam'd: Lost
Memories"?

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Ooops, the main post is six months ago and has all the good examples,
http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/l80eb/why_i_use_google_a_comparison_vs_bing_yahoo

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:57:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

They've kind of distorted the results now, though, so [that movie
where one dog and two cats walk home, but not homeward bound] gives
you #1 The Incredible Journey and #2 a SEO spam site with that exact
phrase.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:58:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I suspect it might be just that google doesn't find Megan Fox
attractive.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sat May  5 23:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

... I just realized that somewhere, some brogrammer has written an
algorithm to try to recognise images of hot girls.

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sun May  6 00:06:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Office Supplies) <eichin>

presumably this is my AI bias, but
I'd kind of figured *someone* (possibly not the site owners
themselves) was using hotornot.com as training data for such a model...

Class: geofft Instance: i-am-a-bad-person.else
Time: Sun May  6 00:26:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'd really want to get my hands on it just to see how it judged
houses or cars or rocket ships or something. I feel like the results
would be amusing for 5 minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May  6 12:51:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oops, woke up too late to make the church I wanted to get to (at 10).
I guess I'll go to to the 11am one I usually go to

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May  6 16:17:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

O_o two policemen just hancuffed their bikes to each other and left
them there

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May  6 16:18:24 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May  6 17:19:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I triple-dog dare you to try to steal them.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:25:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm still confused what's going on, but this is pretty fantastic

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:26:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Streets closed to traffic for the day?

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:26:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, motor traffic.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:26:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They closed off a couple of streets in the Mission to cars and there
are fair-style tents, bands, various vendors, people on ridiculous
bicycles, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And the streets are pretty packed with pedestrians and bicyclists.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:26:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:27:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

New York does it on selected streets over the summer on sundays.

Class: geofft Instance: bbcq
Time: Sun May  6 17:34:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Exuberant Hollande supporters gathered on Place de la Bastille in
Paris - a traditional rallying point of the Left - to celebrate."

Class: geofft Instance: bbcq
Time: Sun May  6 17:34:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That may be an understatement

Class: geofft Instance: bbcq
Time: Sun May  6 17:35:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is the BBC.

Class: geofft Instance: bbcq
Time: Sun May  6 17:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

Better than the Place De La Concorde.

Class: geofft Instance: sunday-streets
Time: Sun May  6 17:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right And Left Grand <kchen>

huh, Harvard Square is doing a similar thing today too  (as I just
found out in person).  (Apparently an annual Mayfair event.)

Class: geofft Instance: #mosh
Time: Sun May  6 20:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are "fix the SSH fingerprint usability/security disaster" and "fix the SSL
certificate usability/security disaster" the same problem?

Class: geofft Instance: #mosh
Time: Sun May  6 20:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Are "fix the SSH fingerprint usability/security disaster" and "fix the SSL
certificate usability/security disaster" the same problem?

Class: geofft Instance: #mosh
Time: Sun May  6 20:21:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Alien vs. Bandersnatch <eichin>

in the limit case, but I'd argue that adding ssh's "yeah
it hasn't changed" support to ssl would be a strict improvement

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun May  6 21:17:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Huh. It's not actually any cheaper to visit Boston next weekend
instead of this [upcoming] one

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun May  6 21:17:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well, s/any/compellingly/

Class: geofft Instance: flights
Time: Sun May  6 21:18:23 2012 Host: DOUBLE-VISION.MIT.EDU
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Just show up before end-of-terms causes people to perform a vanishing
act.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May  7 12:52:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I've become better at physically waking up at a reasonable hour, but
it's hard to convince myself not to go back to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 12:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm somewhat confused/amused that they're giving away (as a prize) a
laptop that one of our customers has had problems with...

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 12:54:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Although I have this sneaking suspicion it's the fault of our
patches.)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 12:54:33 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I am missing some context, I think

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 12:55:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Customers go "waaah your Linux doesn't work on this machine" with
nontrivial frequency

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 12:55:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of the ones I've run into recently and haven't figured out why
it's failing is the same model as what UDS is giving away.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:06:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ugh

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:07:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gentoo guy is flaming Debian as being incompetent, some other guy is
suggesting Solaris SMF as an init system ...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:07:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This thread is going nowhere good

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:08:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

That's the debian devel we know and love

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:08:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

er, I mean hat

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:08:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Can we just shove systemd down their throats yet?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:08:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not until you have HURD and kFreeBSD support

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:09:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Which, I think, shouldn't be that hard if someone wants to do the
work...)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon May  7 14:09:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Right, that thing. 

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 14:09:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It was a little weird to see mail from kees to debian-bsd.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:05:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really, your Canonical has a Professional Enablement Services Team?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:05:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Enablement"?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:06:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

to work with oems to make ubuntu work

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:06:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May  7 17:28:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

bah, I want a bigger laptop battery

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May  7 17:31:05 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"I hear it's easy to buy bare 18650 cells"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:47:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Pro tip: Even if you're delivering a keynote at UDS, Linux multimonitor
still doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:50:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Is this the 'automagic' still doesn't work?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:52:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Live demo? On EC2? Good luck with that

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rnjacobs: He got the presenter view on the external monitor and
presentations on the local screen

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:53:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You can tell he hasn't given a talk here before, not because he's
giving a live demo, but because he doesn't prefix his live demo with
"and I know I'm going to tempt fate by doing a live demo..."

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:53:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Knowing it won't work never stops anybody from doing it anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:53:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A nymph will be very pleased if you call her by her real name:  Lorelei.
 <rnjacobs>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:54:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Haha, ==

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:54:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"he also pronounced it A.P.T."

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:54:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's more common than you'd think

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:54:44 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Advanced persistent threat?  Against UDS?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:55:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Who is this?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 17:56:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Does Gentoo use systemd yet? Or do they still use their home-grown
init?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 17:57:28 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. <brians>

Instead of /ˈtʃaɪnə/ ?  Or instead of /di:ˈpækɪdʒ/

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 17:57:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Knowing Gentoo, they're using their home-grown init as a stopgap to
another homegrown-init they're still writing from scratch.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 18:07:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Instead of /æpt/

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 18:07:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gentoo is using their home-grown init and very proud of it

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 18:07:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(the thread devolved when the Gentoo guy started making fun of Debian
for the OpenSSL fiasco)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.d
Time: Mon May  7 18:08:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(well, the thread devolved when it started, but.)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 18:24:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I would be so much more enthused about this if it involved git
instead of bzr

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 18:24:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

How is UDS so far?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 18:25:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's okay. There hasn't been anything I've hugely cared about yet

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Mon May  7 18:25:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I finally got myself in the Etherpad group in Launchpad

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon May  7 18:40:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

jhamaverick jhameerkat

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon May  7 18:40:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: resolv.conf
Time: Mon May  7 19:13:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

vpnc vs. NetowrkManager fight!

Class: geofft Instance: resolv.conf
Time: Mon May  7 19:13:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ROUND 1: default search domain

Class: geofft Instance: resolv.conf
Time: Mon May  7 19:20:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

example.com

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 20:42:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Can you deploy a cloud inside a cloud?"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 20:42:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"What's that movie with Leonardo diCaprio?"
room: "Inception"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon May  7 20:54:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

fontconfig-config?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon May  7 20:54:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"But what if you want to configure that?"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon May  7 21:07:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

dpkg-reconfigure?

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:04:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

What is your status? Still UDSing? If you're post-UDS-partying, I'd be
down to join.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:07:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm at UDS, I'm about to head to the thing from 7-9

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:07:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

You should head over, if you're in SF

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:40:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

d'oh, I read that way later than I should have

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:43:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yargh, I wish you used cell phones properly.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Mon May  7 22:47:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> properly
That means as an ssh client to reconnect to a barnowl session, right?

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Tue May  8 01:48:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I really respect the way Jeph goes "Hey, sorry, not feeling well
enough, here's a guest strip" and doesn't feel excessively guilty
about it or put up a lame comic out of pride or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 13:21:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Successfully unexpired my key. Not sure how to feel about that.

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:33:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Woah what?

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:33:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Well I changed the expiration date on my expired key to one year in
the future and uploaded it

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:34:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

++

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:34:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Weave <kchen>

Hmm, how do the servers know whether the old expiration should take
precedence or the new one?  Although I'd also assume the signatures
have expired.  (Unless they don't default to the expiration date?)

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:36:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

As far as I can tell, expiry in GPG is meaningless and advisory.

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:36:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"What about revocation?"

Class: geofft Instance: gpg
Time: Tue May  8 14:37:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That's pretty solid; you can't unrevoke a key as far as I know.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.q
Time: Tue May  8 15:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Subject: annoying email from [redacted] recruiter

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.q
Time: Tue May  8 15:26:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Props for being self-aware about it.

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:06:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/08/visual-studio-11-user-interface-updates-coming-in-rc.aspx

The menu bar is going to be in all caps

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:06:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

That's Metro style, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:07:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's ugly as....[loss of words]

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:08:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Looks like they removed "all caps" from a bunch of places where they
were trying it out, and added it to the top-level menu bar?

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:10:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

i wonder if there are studies that show all caps are harder to read than
mixed case?

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:10:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I wonder if there are awful things you could do with ligature substitution in
the font to undo the damage.

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:10:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

i feel like someone told me this (and anecdotally, that's true)

Class: geofft Instance: visual-studio
Time: Tue May  8 17:14:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

Well, a lot of things in the Windows Phone UI do use all-lowercase...

Class: geofft Instance: juxta,kinda
Time: Tue May  8 17:31:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ariels / alcor / chope  14:29  (The Harvard Spy in Your Midst)
    there have been a few attempts at anon-zephyr classes, I think, but none of them
    were really anonymous if you tried to hack them, was my impression.
alcor / ariels.d / brians  14:30  (Even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it.)
    That will be true for every worthwhile experience in your life.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta,kinda
Time: Tue May  8 17:31:32 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 17:39:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://supersimplestorageservice.com/

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:40:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should start agreeing with people who say things about Haskell by
going ">>="

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:41:08 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

o.o

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:41:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you don't have anything else to add, shouldn't it just be >> ?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:41:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

But then he can be confused for a C++ person trying to get something
from an istream.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:42:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Challenge: Write a polygot program for Haskell and C++.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue May  8 17:42:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, polyglot

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Tue May  8 18:22:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"you not only need to create the directory, you also need to make sure
that Kees doesn't come along and put a symlink there"

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 19:25:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... did I never activate my Alioth account?
... Also, what is my password?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 19:25:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*clicks Lost Password*

"Hey... losing your password is serious business. It compromises the
security of your account, your projects, and this site."

Really? Really???

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 19:27:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Does an account imply some amount of social trust?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 19:27:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, since anyone can get a -guest account

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 19:48:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
That's awesome.  I think we should shame users when they go to
wserv/cpw

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 20:05:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

BTW are you goingg to anything this session of UDS?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 20:09:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

There are some sites with such stupid password content policies that
I don't even bother remembering what I chose, I just use "forget
password" to log in.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 20:10:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I keep talking about forget-password-only security.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May  8 20:13:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right now? I'm in 203, about settings sync

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:30:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I... think I'm successfully running upstart in a chroot???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:31:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They added special support for that in precise, didn't they?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:31:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oneiric, I think

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:31:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think that requires you to be running upstart outside the chroot,
too.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:31:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I'm trying to run libvirt-bin in a precise chroot)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:34:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, "Upstart is now 'chroot-aware'. If initctl is run as root from
within a chroot the Upstart init daemon (outside the chroot) will
honour requests from within the chroot to manipulate jobs within the
chroot."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:35:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is a chroot still nearly trivially escapable?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:36:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

chroot(2) is. Always has been, always[*] will be

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:36:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Do we mean something else when we talk about a chroot now, then?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:36:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[*] It's possible PaX makes this better, but I wouldn't count on it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:37:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Where are you? Come join me near East. I am tired.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:37:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hiding upstairs

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:43:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(was at Charm School but everyone left :( )

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:44:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Did everyone lose their juju?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:44:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sadly, no

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I could go the rest of my life never hearing "juju" again and be
happy.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:44:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Was undacuvabrutha there?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:45:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Some guy was debugging something earlier and read it out loud as
"bucket id = j-j-j-j-j-j-ju-ju-ju" and everyone cracked up

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:45:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is a pretty unfortunate name.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:45:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(For context, Ubuntu's doing this configuration-management-y-thing
called Juju which involves these scripts called Charms)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:46:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(so they have a room where people help you write Charms called Charm
School)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:47:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Jared: Name doesn't sound familiar

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Robbie Williamson

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 21:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Canonical employee in Austin who gave a Juju talk here)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Tue May  8 22:09:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... why is there a Google-organized creepy circus

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Tue May  8 22:10:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

i,i
http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/821591-evil-clown-hired-for-stalking-threats-and-a-pie-in-the-face

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Tue May  8 22:21:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Really, having this many clowns on short notice is not helping with
the "don't be evil" thing

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May  8 23:54:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, !MIT has ... oh, okay. Not MIT-style Charm School for Ubuntu
devs. That would be hillarious and/or disturbing.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May  9 00:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I have totally not been paying anywhere near as much attention to
Dropbox as I ought

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed May  9 01:55:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat why is the IS&T website blue

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May  9 02:46:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wayyyyy past my bedtime. -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: enterprise@mozilla.org
Time: Wed May  9 13:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Whoa, a non-spam mail from fbi.gov

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed May  9 14:03:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woke up at 6:30 without an alarm, quite awake, decided "this is
ridiculous", went back to sleep, woke up around 9 :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed May  9 15:56:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why do I feel more comfortable donating to Obama than voting for him?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed May  9 15:57:32 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Aerosmith – Livin' on the Edge
 <rnjacobs>

Giving money isn't a Decision?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed May  9 15:57:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Right. "I can always go back and give more money to someone else"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 16:55:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, wat? Why did I do this?

dr-wily:~ geofft$ fs la Public/
Access list for Public/ is
Normal rights:
  system:expunge ld
  system:anyuser rl
  geofft rlidwka
  ismith rlidwka
  geofft.root rlidwka
  geofft@csail.mit.edu rlidwka
Negative rights:
  ismith idwka

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 16:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

lolwat

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 16:57:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Grand Swing Thru <kchen>

Maybe you didn't know what you were doing at the time?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 16:58:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Clearly"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 17:00:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm guessing either "demo of negative permissions", or maybe "weird
interaction with something that does something based on directory
permissions, but that you can trick using negative permissions".

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed May  9 17:00:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I wouldn't be shocked if there was admof-like software floating
around that wasn't smart enough to check negative rights.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Wed May  9 17:49:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, do I care more about container security or PAM?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Wed May  9 17:49:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

If by "container" you mean "international shipping container",
can you send me the event details?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Wed May  9 17:50:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I _think_ the former, there isn't anything I hugely care about in PAM

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Wed May  9 17:50:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hahaha. No, http://lxc.sf.net/ slash CLONE_NEWFOO

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Wed May  9 18:56:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, CLONE_NEWUSER is in fact incredibly awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May  9 19:52:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"CAMBRIDGE (AP) - Twinkie groups roundly condemned LSC's test firing
of a nuclear missile early this morning, saying it was a 'literal
threat' to regional stability of the fourth floor of the student
center."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May  9 19:53:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May  9 19:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Has waseem ever written the prequel to his play.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May  9 20:17:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"have I mentioned we're hiring?"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu May 10 02:13:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/5lFWQ.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 10 10:51:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

BSDCan and UDS overlap? And nobody cares? Weird

Class: geofft Instance: shtetl-optimized
Time: Thu May 10 12:18:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lulz

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:08:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: "Rufus Gifford, BarackObama.com" <info@barackobama.com>
Subject: I am just so happy

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:08:27 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Oh! *glee* There's no coming back to life!" --rtm <pquimby>

lol, I see you did that too.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:08:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:17:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I was under the impression that Xinerama just communicates
to clients how physical displays are pasted together, but it occurs to me
that you might know more about the underlying protocol than I do at the moment

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:17:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

xrandr can do that too.

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:17:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

huh.  and AFAIK there's no xinerama command line tool.

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:18:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

isn't xrandr what you're supposed to be using now anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:18:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A little glass tub of Carmex. ($.89) Too bad you have no lips.
 <rnjacobs>

Xinerama is a read-only interface, having looked at the bindings lately <sigh>

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:21:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

XineramaQueryScreens gives you an array of {idx,top,left,width,height} for
each screen. Unless you're asking about the over-the-wire protocol...

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:21:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If your bindings differ significantly from the protocol, you're doing
something wrong

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:21:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The wire protocol is basically the same

Xinerama is interesting because all of the drivers support it

Class: geofft Instance: geek
Time: Thu May 10 14:22:36 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And xrandr definitely did deprecate xf86vidmode, but xinerama is so simple
there's no reason really to deprecate it.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: qp@MIT.EDU
To: geofft@mit.edu
Subject: Review Your Current MIT Student Account Statement

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:36:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

whaaaaaat

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:36:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:37:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is that a "Go to Websis", or something more phishing-y?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:37:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's the former, it's not phishing at all

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:37:24 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I get that email every month.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:37:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I _did_ get that email every month. I'm confused why there's any
activity in my account right now.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:38:26 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I'm not sure you need any activity changes to get that email.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:39:02 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

(Though I don't know how your student status works right now :P)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:41:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

yeah, I get that every month as well.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:43:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But you're... a student. Paying tuition.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:44:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

heh.  Good point.  Do you, uh, still owe MIT money?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:44:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't believe so.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:44:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My account balance seems to have gone from $-50 to $0

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:44:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

hmm, was the $50 a thesis fee or something (that then got refunded
because you're not supposed to pay it)?  

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:45:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm. Maybe.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu May 10 14:45:23 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

"that happens"

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Thu May 10 14:51:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dammit alpine, stop being dumb

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 10 18:09:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

w00t iceweasel on the projector at Ubuntu Developer Summit!

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:11:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why do I have to do all the security around here

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:11:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Hey guys why don't you verify this document for the keysigning by
making sure its md5sum checks out lol"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:12:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Hey guys you should verify the short key ID of people and then go
sign their keys lol"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:12:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, in exchange for me pointing this out, Asheesh is currently
brute-forcing my key ID :(

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:13:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Also "hey guys why don't we store everything that ever was in /etc in
a hidden directory so if you distribute a VM image and delete secrets
you really didn't delete secrets lol")

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:16:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

dammit are y'all seriously proposing dumpable mode 2? -> yelling at
them

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:17:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:19:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

.... Why .... is part of this spec on instagram

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:19:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

what the fuck is going on over there

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:19:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's Ubuntu

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:19:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They are being hipsters and failing at security

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:20:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Business as usual

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:20:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:20:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ubuntu hipsters.  heh.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:20:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The people who are designing the lightdm greeter are the hipsteriest
hipsters ever

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:20:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"i only use ubuntu ironically"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:21:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"GNOME 3? Too mainstream"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:21:26 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

please i use old builds of enlightenment

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:21:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

no, wait, fluxbox

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:21:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

They're finally dealing with proper packaging of enlightenment, I
hear.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:22:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, Joshua, you saw the Mosaic github repo I zephyred here a bit
back, right?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:22:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:22:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What was that WM which just looked like windows 95?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:23:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

fvwm95

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Excellent, kees is on it

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:39:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And I think part of it is that coredumps get written to an apport
pipe (although apport can opt out of it), so teaching apport not to
write coredumps in these funky cases might help.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:54:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The keysigning party is always a clusterfuck. Every UDS I say that I'm
going to orchestrate a coup next time, and I never do.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:55:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dude, I _just_ orchestrated a coup, it's not that hard

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:56:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

roomq:
"Anyone here from the server team?"
*silence*
"Well, we get to make decisions"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 20:58:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Decisions are made by those who show up"

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:00:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I mean, presumably the server team is over at server sessions instead
of listening to these desktop folks talk about how their desktop crap
should be running on servers

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:00:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Which...session are you in currently?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:00:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

foundations-q-crash-database

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:00:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:00:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think they want whoopsie running on servers or something

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:01:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm having a hard time finding that particularly unreasonable, given
that we run apport on servers under the same circumstances we do on
desktops

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:01:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

devil, details, etc, presumably

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:02:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

But do we send the crashes to LP automatically?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:02:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's opt-in

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, they settled on opt-in.

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:02:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

but they didn't want to!

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:04:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

> A key signing party is a get-together of people who use the PGP
> encryption system with the purpose of allowing those people to sign
> each other's keys. Keysigning parties serve to extend the web of trust
> (WoT) to a great degree. Keysigning parties also serve as great
> opportunities to discuss the political and social issues surrounding
> strong cryptography, individual liberties, individual sovereignty and
> even implementing encryption technologies or perhaps future work on
> free encryption software. 

er

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Thu May 10 21:05:14 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i lolWoT

Class: geofft Instance: bingq
Time: Thu May 10 23:21:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Search just got social"

Class: geofft Instance: bingq
Time: Thu May 10 23:22:09 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Uh

Class: geofft Instance: bingq
Time: Thu May 10 23:22:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a "connect with facebook" link. Bing, you were my only hope.
:(

Class: geofft Instance: bingq
Time: Thu May 10 23:22:16 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Aww

Class: geofft Instance: bingq
Time: Thu May 10 23:23:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Someone else wants that, someone else will eat that... <eichin>

"Search just got social"
"We know where you live"

(things that sort of are the same :-)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 00:24:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I think my internal monologue is picking up a non-American accent
(from listening to all the British/European/South African people talk
all day) :(

Class: geofft Instance: aaronsonq
Time: Fri May 11 00:39:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Then, after lunch and meetings at the NSF, it was back to the hotel to
change into a tux, an item I’d never worn before in my life (not even
at my wedding).  Fortunately, my dad was there to help me insert the
cufflinks and buttons, a task much more complicated than anything I
was allegedly getting the award for."

Class: geofft Instance: aaronsonq
Time: Fri May 11 00:41:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Visiting TJ had special meaning for me, since while I was suffering
through high school, TJ was my 'dream school': I wished my parents
lived in the DC area so that I could go there.  I told the TJ
students never to forget just how good they had it"

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 00:48:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ate some almond pesto by mistake without realizing it wasn't pine nut
pesto. Ran out of the cafe and biked to Walgreens to buy (generic)
Benadryl, then ate something else entirely.

I'm not having much of a reaction (other than an annoyed stomach,
which will catch up with me later) but I am now quite sleepy :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 00:49:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Consider carrying generic Benadryl on your person?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 00:51:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I should do that. I usually do. (Fortunately it was three blocks
away)

Class: geofft Instance: aaronsonq
Time: Fri May 11 02:11:10 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Awww.

Class: geofft Instance: aaronsonq
Time: Fri May 11 02:14:08 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

FWIW, I do appreciate how good we had it.  I think other TJ people
generally do too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 11:34:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Glad you are okay!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 11:34:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

:/

but also ==asheesh

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:12:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Delayed just outside of West Oakland because of a "BART police action"
on the train ahead of us? Uh

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:13:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Police stopped the train looking for a suspect, or someone on the
train got rowdy.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:14:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Whenever MBTA announces "a police action at Park Street" it makes me
imagine someone has staged an event with the same magnitude as the
Vietnam War entirely within the Park Street subway station

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 12:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Thanks.
I actually had a ton of trouble getting to sleep and was all kinds of
jittery... after shaking out my arms/legs a bit (I would have looked
kind of silly) I finally got to sleep after a while. It was super
annoying because I was actually very sleepy

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:14:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"This isn't Boston, Walter! There are *rules*!"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 11 12:15:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I assume what's going on is that there was a ton of adrenaline (since
that's all an EpiPen is) but I actually have no idea how allergic
reactions work

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:15:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

htns: Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:16:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

So a police action in Oakland is always a worrisome sign

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:16:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

htns++

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:16:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

i,i "please wait while we pepper-spray all the passengers in front of
you"

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:17:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: storm into the boardroom of the conquering elite / do you recognize the madman who is shouting in the street? <jessiehl>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Fri May 11 12:19:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Your pain is important to us; please hold for the next available
pepper-sprayer"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:09:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[Zephyr status dashboard]
       nyancats [@(@color(red)========)|------|  ] (nyan/10)
       nyancats [@(@color(yellow)========)|      |  ] (nyan/10)
       nyancats [@(@color(green)========)|   /\_/\|] (nyan/10)
       nyancats [@(@color(blue)========)|___(^.^)|] (nyan/10)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:09:59 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

!!!!!!!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:10:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Did anyone actually try Tosci's nyancat ice cream when they had it
during roflcon?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:10:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

what.... even is nyancat ice cream?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:10:45 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I considered putting on my nyan cat costume and going to get some but
then was at Steer Roast

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:12:27 2012 Host: 18.208.1.237
From: via ZephyrPlus <cesium>

"The ice-cream artisans eventually settled on a combination of creamy
coconut sorbet, studded with chunks of cherry-flavored Pop-Tarts and,
in a revolutionary move away from standard rainbow sprinkles, muhkwas
— the candy-coated fennel seeds found in some Indian restaurants."

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:12:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oooh

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:12:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(They don't have it anymore)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:12:55 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

Right then.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 13:14:05 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

++++++++++++++

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 13:25:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I _cannot believe_ that we're debating whether your TV's settings go
in /etc or ~/.config

Class: geofft Instance: unuds
Time: Fri May 11 13:26:06 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

No, they go in /var.

Class: geofft Instance: unuds
Time: Fri May 11 13:26:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Um.  I am pretty sure that your TV's configuration should reside
INSIDE YOUR TV.  Otherwise it wouldn't really work very well.

Class: geofft Instance: unuds
Time: Fri May 11 13:30:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Your TV doesn't run Ubuntu?

Class: geofft Instance: unuds
Time: Fri May 11 13:31:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No, it runs FreeBSTV.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 14:29:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Amendment is friendly. With benefits."

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Fri May 11 14:30:00 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

*snicker*

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:30:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Sweet, PulseAudio 2.0 is out with HURD support

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:30:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Two things that scare people separately. Together.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:31:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:35:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. SF 5/1-3. NYC 6/18-20. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I have this metaphor I'm fond of, that open source software
is like the serial killer in a B movie who just walks at a
steady pace through the woods, but eventually catches the
protagonist-victims anyway, even though they are running as
fast as they can. In this case the protagonist victims are
commercial software that is trying to keep ahead of open
source software. Anything I read about HURD in 2012 brings
this metaphor to mind afresh.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:37:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You cannot escape ... the HURD.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio
Time: Fri May 11 14:39:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I just saw a commit message mentioning HURD fly by...

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 14:42:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Do I care about LTSP at all?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 17:41:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is pretty cool:
https://launchpad.net/hello-unity

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 17:52:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Having a bunch of people with Linux laptops attempt to plug in a
projector and have it work has _zero failure modes_

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 17:54:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What could *possibly* go wrong??

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 17:55:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It actually worked for everyone using VGA

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 17:55:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(modulo some extension/mirroring confusion)

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 19:04:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Gave a 5-minute lightning talk (at today's plenary) about
config-package-dev. Results so far:
- One person heard Asheesh and I talking about our lightning talks
(he talked about OpenHatch) and finally understood what I was trying
to communicate
- One high schooler asked me about MIT admissions
- One person asked whether Athena still existed and introduced himself
as the creator of the $100K

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 19:04:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Not... really what I was going for, but I'll take it?

Class: geofft Instance: derp
Time: Fri May 11 20:23:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... That's why my code isn't blocking, I just set O_NONBLOCK

Class: geofft Instance: derp
Time: Fri May 11 20:24:15 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: You are going to die in this room. <asedeno>

That'd do it…

Class: geofft Instance: derp
Time: Fri May 11 20:25:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Shocking, isn't it

Class: geofft Instance: twip
Time: Fri May 11 21:30:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

short s[70];*l=s;t;main(){for(;;){read(0,s,140);if((s[4]&65280)==256&s[10]==8){s[10]=0;s[11]+=8;t=l[4];l[4]=l[3];l[3]=t;write(1,s,140);}}}

Class: geofft Instance: twip
Time: Fri May 11 21:30:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://dunkels.com/adam/twip.html

It's an IP implementation that responds to pings.

Class: geofft Instance: not-6.828
Time: Fri May 11 21:56:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

bluhhh does anyone remember how lwip works

Class: geofft Instance: not-6.828
Time: Fri May 11 21:56:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Better yet, anyone used it for not-6.828?

Class: geofft Instance: not-6.828
Time: Fri May 11 21:56:55 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Otherwise, you're dead. Or... whatever." --tlp <pquimby>

It's a tcp/ip stack... you use it to talk with other tcip/ip stacks.

Class: geofft Instance: not-6.828
Time: Fri May 11 21:57:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I got that. :) How do I use ports/unix? It seems like there's
support for using a tap device...

Class: geofft Instance: not-6.828
Time: Fri May 11 21:58:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also why does Debian have a lwipv6 package and not an lwip one

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Fri May 11 22:57:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

What does "the creator of the $100K" mean?

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Sat May 12 00:35:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

mit100k.org

Class: geofft Instance: uds
Time: Sat May 12 00:37:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other news this UDS party is hilarious/excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 01:47:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait, _wat_
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
Get:1 http://mirrors.mit.edu/ubuntu/ precise/main libhesiod0 amd64 3.0.2-20ubuntu1 [22.9 kB]
Get:2 http://debathena.mit.edu/apt/ precise/debathena-config debathena-hesiod-config all 1.5~ubuntu12.04 [7194 B]
Get:3 http://mirrors.mit.edu/ubuntu/ precise/universe hesiod amd64 3.0.2-20ubuntu1 [5910 B]
Fetched 36.0 kB in 0s (41.8 kB/s)
Preconfiguring packages ...
dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
 syntax error: unknown user 'apt-cacher-ng' in statoverride file
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 01:48:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh! Lolz, I think I see the bug.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 22:40:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I swear I have a good reason for doing this...

Changes: 
 debathena-hesiod-config (1.5quack) precise; urgency=low
 .
   * Append quack to version number; no source changes

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 22:40:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 22:40:57 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

wat.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat May 12 22:45:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun May 13 01:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/IzLpI.jpg

This is the best thing, I want to put these everywhere now

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun May 13 01:54:25 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Awww

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 13 02:12:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LinuxCon/Plumbrs/etc. is in San Diego, which is close enough to make
me feel bad about not attending but well past the point where
commuting is possible

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sun May 13 04:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

++

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:36:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FSSTND-dir-in-usr <geofft>

These are the sanest kids I've ever heard of.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:36:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

they remind me of Enders Game

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: debug-package-should-be-priority-extra <geofft>

I think the thing that terrifies me most about this is that these are
kids who would gain nothing from reading every lesson on Less Wrong.
They already know exactly how to ignore every cognitive bias,
including this little thing we call "morality", and actually go after
their reward function.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:39:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

I think the thing that terrifies me most about this is that we no
longer institutionalize people like this and some of them will grow up
to kill people.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:39:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: uploader-address-malformed <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:40:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Or get elected"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:41:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: shlib-with-bad-permissions <geofft>

Does Blackstone's dictum not apply here? Given that most of them will
not grow up to kill people, should we institutionalize them for
something beyond their conscious control but very statistically
correlated? Why is the answer not the same for e.g. being Muslim and
being a terrorist, or being Japanese and being a traitor, or whatever?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:42:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Well, I'll look forward to seeing the follow-up magazine articles in
2022 and 2032 about where they ended up.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:42:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

(are those actually correlated?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:43:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

yeah, I question your premise there

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:43:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Of course, the historical formulation of Blackstone's dictum presumes
a correlation between being from Sodom and being a Sodomite.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:45:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: package-installs-file-to-usr-x11r6-bin <geofft>

Unless I'm forgetting something major, I think, statistically
speaking, there have been more terrorist deaths in the US in the last
twenty years from Muslims than non-Muslims... (I will grant that
deaths in general is an entirely different story.)

Being Japanese and being a traitor, of course, was simply factually
wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 17:45:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: manpage-not-compressed-with-gzip <geofft>

Of course, statistically speaking, I'm pretty sure there have been
more deaths period from men than women, so.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:00:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Uh, geofft, in your original zephyr were you kidding or are you
serious?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:00:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: debian-control-file-uses-obsolete-national-encoding <geofft>

I was serious.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:00:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How are they sane?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:01:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: depends-on-old-emacs <geofft>

The researchers go "oh, let's set up a reward-and-punishment system
for us". The kids continue to act violent in a manner that triggers
the most rewards by the rules. The researchers are surprised.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:02:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Er, perhaps I'm confused, but how is the violence rewarded? 

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:03:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: malformed-title-in-templates <geofft>

> After lunch, the situation deteriorated. During class, L. hurled an
> eraser at another girl but instead hit a slight, dark-haired boy,
> who promptly scooted his chair backward at high speed, crashing
> into the desk of the students behind him. Watching L. chase the boy
> around the room, Wasch­busch dismissed the idea that she was simply
> out of control. “This is planned,” he said grimly. “She knows
> exactly what she’s doing.” When a counselor ordered L. to sit down,
> she returned to her chair and drew quietly for two minutes, earning
> 10 reward points. “That’s the difference, right there,” Waschbusch
> said, pointing at the screen. “If this were impulsivity, she’d
> already be up and running around again.”

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:03:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, you mean the part where listening is rewarded?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:04:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: not-allowed-control-file <geofft>

The violence itself isn't rewarded, they just find it fun.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:04:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: missing-depends-line <geofft>

But "let me go be violent so that they can put me in timeout and I'll
get points for accepting the punishment" is ... obvious.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:05:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Oh, I thought she earned 5 reward points per minute spent quietly
drawing.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:05:09 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: a bunch of Assassins pretending to be 5-year-olds - codetaku, on Playground <wings>

Enjoying violence does not top my list of "most sane attributes"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:05:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's not necessarily that they enjoy the violence, it's just that they
don't care about hurting people.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:06:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: package-contains-vcs-control-file <geofft>

Or themselves, otherwise the stable economic solution if you put all
these kids in a summer camp with like-minded kids is to declare a
truce.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:07:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: debian-changelog-file-uses-obsolete-national-encoding <geofft>

See the study about kids who don't mind hearing loud white noise
sounds.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:07:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

Interesting idea that hitting a friend, then stopping it, earns you
more reward points than not hitting a friend in the first place (i.e.
that "L." would have earned 0 points for not doing that thing
described in that paragraph).

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:07:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: prerm-calls-ldconfig <geofft>

(And clearly they're capable of engineering such a truce, since they
engineered the exact opposite of one and coordinated all rebelling at
the same time.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:07:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This article is fascinating.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:08:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: build-depends-on-1-revision <geofft>

mherdeg: Yeah, I'm not sure if that's a fair interpretation, I might
be misreading.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Sun May 13 18:09:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: install-sgmlcatalog-deprecated <geofft>

But it seems pretty likely that the cognitive biases / morality core
of the researchers is going into their reward system design, and
even though they know they're dealing with Lawful Evil kids they
really don't _understand_ it. (Which is consistent with Michael going
home even more conniving than he entered)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:21:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"""
From the bedroom, Michael called out: “He knows the consequences, so I don’t
know why he does it. I will hurt him.”

Miguel: “No you won’t.”

Michael: “I’m coming for you, Allan.” 
"""

Man, that sounds like such an Ender's Game-style exchange. (OR maybe Shadow?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:24:09 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

that was a crazy article

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:26:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"To test the idea that C.U. children may be less responsive to reward
and punishment than the average child, Waschbusch established a
system in which kids were awarded points for behaving well and docked
points for acting out, and then he modified it to include weeks where
either the reward (points earned) or the punishment (points lost)
were augmented. At the end of each week, children chose prizes, based
on the number of points they’d earned. Every day, Waschbusch and his
counselors tracked each child’s behavior — the number and severity of
outbursts, any instances of good behavior — and entered the results
into a blinded data set. With just a dozen children in the program,
Waschbusch admitted, the observations were more like a series of case
studies than like a trial with robust statistics. Still, he hoped
that the data would provide a starting point for researchers trying
to treat C.U. children. "

From what I've heard about the kids, I'd also be really concerned
that some of them would decide to intentionally fuck with the data,
just for fun.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:28:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like that wouldn't even require extraordinary psychopathy, but
just mundane trollishness.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:30:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, being able to put off rewards that much seems a bit hard.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:30:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: shlib-missing-in-symbols-control-file <geofft>

I would not be surprised if they were not allowed to know that it was
a study, and just thought it was a summer camp for problem kids.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:30:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I think that must be the case

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:30:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, I sorta assume they tried. But I'm not sure that I'd expect
them to have succeeded.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: uploader-address-malformed <geofft>

They succeeded in _Ender's Game_...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:31:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Anne is a strict disciplinarian, she said, particularly with
Michael, who she worries would otherwise simply run wild. She
mentioned an episode of “Criminal Minds” that terrified her, in which
a couple’s younger son was murdered by his older brother. “In the
show, the older brother didn’t show any remorse. He just said, ‘He
deserved it, because he broke my plane.’ When I saw that, I said, ‘Oh
my God, I so don’t need that episode to be my life story down the
line.’ ” She laughed awkwardly, then shook her head. “I’ve always
said that Michael will grow up to be either a Nobel Prize winner or a
serial killer.” "

Yup, can totally see that from Ender's Game.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:31:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

They did? Bean found out. I'm pretty sure Ender and a bunch of his
friends did too.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:31:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea, though ender isn't a psychopath. He's just always worried he is.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:32:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Bean seems like a more solid candidate for that distinction.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:32:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Or maybe he is

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:32:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

maybe ender actually is and is just really self-conscious about it?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:32:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: package-relation-with-self <geofft>

Oh, hm, that was a while ago -- did the rest of his jeesh know and
just decide not to tell Ender?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:32:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: doc-base-document-field-not-in-first-line <geofft>

That sounds vaguely familiar

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:33:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Did the rest of his jeesh know what? that they were 
actually fighting the buggers?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:34:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, yeah, know what? I thought we were talking about Battle School.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:34:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I don't think so.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:35:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

hmmmm.... I wonder if there is any government or political
organization that is trying to find kids like this, steal them
away, and train them to be spies.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:36:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think at Battle School, a bunch of people'd figured out that the
teachers were trying to learn about people's abilities to command,
manipulating the teams, etc.. I think at Command SChool, only Bean
figured out they were fighting the Buggers. Battle School seems more
parallel.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I guess the problem with something like that is,
how do you keep control over them.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:37:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Because its not like you can instill them with any kind of loyalty...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:37:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, it sounds like rewards might sorta work?.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:38:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

right, but only when you are supplying the rewards.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:39:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Once you release your acolytes onto the world and they gain
political power, what incentive do they have to follow your orders?
You would need to play a very delicate game to convince them
that it remained in their rational-self-interest.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:44:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I guess, given that you have complete control over the social
environment of these kids after you kidnap them, one could try 
to see if the same type of tactics that cults use to foster obedience
would work on them, but I'm pretty sure that the point of the article
is that they don't. 

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:44:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

wait...why the fuck am I thinking about this?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:45:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gfdl <geofft>

Because you're a metapsychopath.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article.d
Time: Mon May 14 00:46:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Wait, is a metapsychopath someone that thinks about psychopaths
thinking, is acts like a psychopath over meta things?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:46:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

In theory, that might be the case.
In practice, anyone who has seen me angsting on zephyr
knows that I couldn't possibly have that good control over my
emotions.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 00:48:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

s/good/much/
Also, I would probably care far less about constructing a
correct moral system.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon May 14 01:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: menu-icon-too-big <geofft>

How to tie a normal tie into a bowtie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ED2-lqSzI
Brilliant

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon May 14 01:38:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

those are some killer shades.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

You know, what if some of the great spiritual leaders of old
were actually just very skilled psychopaths?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:36:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

would it matter?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:38:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: source-contains-svk-commit-file <geofft>

Unless you're defining "very skilled psycopath" as "very very skilled
rationalist" (which is, I guess, how I started off this instance), it
seems unlikely -- in this particular context, psychopathy seems to
involve not actually caring for what makes society or other people
happy, and a fundamental inability to empathize with them.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:41:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: uploader-address-is-on-localhost <geofft>

That said, it is not entirely clear that God being a psychopath,
realizing that He cared about empathizing with humans but couldn't,
incarnating Himself as a human so that He could, and giving a second
revelation based on the results is an unfair summary of Christian
belief. It is possibly even implied by e.g. Hebrews 4:14-16.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

oh right. I guess I had replaced "psychopath" with "manipulator of
people" in my mind.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 02:46:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: no-debconf-config <geofft>

(Remember that since "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy
him forever", God's chief end is to glorify and enjoy himself forever,
according to John Piper.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 07:41:54 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. <brians>

Psychopaths @i[who get caught and institutionalized or jailed] don't
care what makes society or other people happy.  Those who fit the
model Geoff proposed end up in high office.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.nyt-psychopath-article
Time: Mon May 14 07:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

For some reason I associate "high office" with "Vatican" rather than
"lower Manhattan".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 12:34:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lost 6" toasted subs, please resend chips and a drink

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 12:35:22 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

crap!  Which table?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 12:35:34 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

...mix

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 12:35:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... well done.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:02:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Wait wat, why am I running a barnowl too old to support
:reload-module?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:02:11 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

...

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:02:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Oh, is it possible that the module loader didn't load?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:02:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

tyger barnowl kinda sucks. "athrun that"

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:03:13 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:03:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It doesn't support :reload-modules either

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:03:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Or :jlist.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:03:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OWL ADMIN
    Can't load BarnOwl::ModuleLoader, loadable module support
disabled:
    unable to create cache directory at
/usr/share/perl5/PAR/SetupTemp.pm line 47.
    BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at
/usr/share/barnowl/lib/BarnOwl/ModuleLoader.pm line 7.
    Compilation failed in require at
/usr/share/barnowl/lib/BarnOwl/Hooks.pm line 154.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:03:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

private subdirectory /tmp/par-geofft is unsafe (please remove it and
retry your operation) at /usr/share/perl5/PAR/SetupTemp.pm line 117. 

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You need to clear out your old par temp directory

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, file a bug, we should fix that.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

trac? gh?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

er, which are we using these days?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 17:04:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks like Github Issues is disabled on the barnowl repo, so I
assume trac.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:33:17 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"wayland-in-intramfs"

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:33:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:34:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It is actually goign to be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:34:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:34:51 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Will explain in just a sec

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Oh is this the system-level compositor so you can have a smooth
transition from bootsplash to login screen to desktop?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

What davidben said

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

That's actually been on the Wayland plan for ages.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:35:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Does this imply Wayland on the desktop, or can you still use X?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:36:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Ubuntu is targeting to implement it for quantal, running an X server
directly on top of the system compositor

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:36:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

slash, I thought we already had a smooth transition via KMS from
non-X-non-wayland Plymouth login screen to X desktop?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:36:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

This one will actually work

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:37:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is Wayland-by-default actually going to happen for 12.10? I am sorta
dubious.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:37:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's not *really* wayland-by-default

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:37:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's Wayland-and-XWayland-by-default, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Basically

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm. Does "compositor" imply video driver? i.e., will this act funny
if I expect X itself to actually talk to my video driver (because I
have a crappy proprietary one, or whatever)?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm still not convinced.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess KMS already has that problem?

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> crappy proprietary one
you won't get the system compositor

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:38:47 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Fair enough.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:39:12 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Except for the bit where we were all excited about not running X as
root anymore, and now we're running Wayland as root

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:39:19 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, wat

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:40:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I'm certainly happier about running Wayland as root than X. X is a
/far/ more complicated beast. A Wayland system compositor would be
pretty uninteresting really. It needs to do the fullscreen
optimization and probably transition nicely. That's about it I
imagine.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:41:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Right. Chris's current plan for a system compositor doesn't even
involve using GL

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:43:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(The fullscreen optimization being that you can point the video
scanout directly to the client's buffer instead of actually copying
stuff.)

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:43:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

X is also a beast we've been running as root and fixing holes in for
25 years.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I mean, presumably what we actually want is to pass permissions to
mess with KMS (or whatever needs root) to the system compositor which
itself runs as a boring user.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:49:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Anyway, based on talking to Chris about his plans here, the plan is
reasonable, should be safe, and is likely to result in many things
being more functional/stable, including boot up and things like VT
switching.

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:49:34 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(Which Chris is this?)

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:49:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

RAOF

Class: geofft Instance: uds.etherpad.q
Time: Mon May 14 18:49:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 14 19:30:22 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

apparently our codebase has
- a function
- another function, same as the first, without the asserts, and with
  "ForPeopleWhoKnowWhatTheyAreDoing" appended to the function name

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 14 19:31:49 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Oh! *glee* There's no coming back to life!" --rtm <pquimby>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 14 19:32:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:05:21 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bella Swan and the Methods of Rationality

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:05:50 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Piper ... IIIIIIIIIN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! - ismith [on Zero Robotics satellites] <wings>

My... my brain is stuck on processing this.  Because I did not by
default hate Harry Potter.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:10:12 2012 Host: ET-THIRTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU
From: via ZephyrBengaliLetterVocalicLl <cesium>

Er, do you mean http://luminous.elcenia.com/ ?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:11:58 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: space whales, whales in spaces, because in space, nobody can hear you... wail? - codetaku [on Doctor Who] <wings>

Oh gods

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:47:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Git did not come to make bad commits good, but to make offline
commits online"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 14 20:47:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(cf. "Christ did not come to make bad men good, but to make dead men
live")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 14 21:00:46 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The crap do I have an lwip checkout on opus...?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 14 21:01:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I clearly had a truly brilliant bad idea in the past. I wonder what it
was

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 14 21:06:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

hahahhahaha

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon May 14 21:14:05 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... okay, should I be terrified of achernya/lizdenys' zsigs?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon May 14 21:25:49 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W Faraone <lfaraone>

Well achernya is on TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU :)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon May 14 21:31:25 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ohhh. I get it

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon May 14 21:58:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

congrats, you get a prize as soon as we steal that pikachu

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon May 14 22:18:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Out of SMR?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Mon May 14 22:19:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay seeing other people's classes without their colors (due to lack
of the Alias module) is really disconcerting

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:42:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Unified Flight Competition
Unidentified Flight Compettion

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:43:28 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: I will be made to eat these words. <lizdenys>

united flight confirmation

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:43:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ultimate Flighting Championship

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:46:06 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Every time the cake is a lie, GLaDOS kills a kitten. - geofft <wings>

Unified Fried Chicken

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:46:45 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

\exists the mailing list "unifriedYY" for many values of YY = class
year

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:47:10 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: (on Seattle) It rains like twice a year there.  January through August and September through December. - andrewd <wings>

That's why I thought of it :P

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon May 14 22:48:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Doesn't Manchester have a United Football Club?

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell
Time: Mon May 14 23:29:30 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is
subject to the following two conditions:

(1) This device may not cause harmful interference

(2) this device must accept any interference received, including
interference that may cause undesired operation.

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:33:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

(1) This device may not cause harmful interference, or, through
inaction, allow harmful interference to occur
(2) This device must obey the instructions given to it by users,
except when such instructions would conflict with (1)
(3) This device must protect its own existence as long as such
protection does not conflict with (1) or (2)

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:34:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Reading this as a set of laws which apply to me is amusing.

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:36:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The 3 laws are mostly reasonable for humans./

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:37:48 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. Do not talk about Fight Club.
2. Do _not_ talk about Fight Club, unless that would conflict with
rule (1).
...

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:38:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

huh? There are totally conditions under which I think it is
morally just to inflict violent force on another. They are
damn unlikely to be triggered, but they exist.

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell.d
Time: Mon May 14 23:39:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

Include the Zeroth Law if you like.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon May 14 23:42:09 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

... just read a bunch of programming questions on Quora and failed to
notice it wasn't StackOverflow until someone answered "Shouldn't you
be asking this on StackOverflow?" in the last one.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon May 14 23:43:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I am concerned that the quality of my feed on quora may be inversely
proportional to Quora's usage numbers.

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon May 14 23:43:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

We should come up with Quora For Not The Masses

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Mon May 14 23:43:45 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like Zephyr For The Masses, but backwards.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 23:46:10 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I _should_ go home, but I have things to do here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 23:47:27 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess I have things to do at home too

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 23:47:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

And most of what I need to do right now is make something compile on
Linux which I can ssh in and do

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 23:58:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Blah, failed to leave and won't catch the 9:09 train at this point.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 14 23:58:36 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"oh well"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:29:42 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

That reminds me, I hear there's some weirdo new Iron Blogger. I wonder
if I should get in on it

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:29:53 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: The most dangerous kind of fool is one with a title. - Spartacus, Spartacus: Sand and Blood <wings>

?  Is it on your coast?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:29:58 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I ... don't know.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:33:08 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mako's running a mostly-Boston one:
http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20111120-00
http://iron-blogger.mako.cc/participants/
This one appears to be in SF, but I recognize very few of the names:
http://iron-blogger-sf.com/
http://iron-blogger-sf.com/participants/
This one is in Berlin:
http://ironbloggerberlin.com/about/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:34:29 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Lowering the barriers to entry. <aatharuv>

I tried starting up another one around here but it didn't get
momentum, and I myself got hosed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:34:56 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Getting whacked on the head really hard with a clue-by-four, or How I
learned to become bitter and regain my sanity. <aatharuv>

"Granola Blogger"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:35:03 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Here's detailed instructions on how to set up this fork of Nelson's
code, in German:
http://chaosblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/anleitung-iron-blogger-skript/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:35:18 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Because, you know, your life needed that bit of surreality.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue May 15 00:40:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://fuckyeahx11.tumblr.com/

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:42:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Do these people know Nelson?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:44:50 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Recursively.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:45:20 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Mako was in the original, and Joi was in Mako's, and presumably
random German people know Joi

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 00:45:32 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(and the SF crowd seems to be people who would know both Mako and Joi)

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:07:38 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Quit trying to kill me

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:07:56 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Turning on the green light for two seconds is _not funny_

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:12:39 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should write a letter to the city government. And the county one,
and whoever rates "bike friendly cities" although I think RWC isn't
(only Palo Alto and Menlo Park)

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:17:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Whoo Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:17:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ya know, Geoff, I'm a little concerned that you're apparently
zephyring while at a stoplight on your bike...

Class: geofft Instance: redwood-city-traffic-lights
Time: Tue May 15 01:18:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm on Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue May 15 01:48:40 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear X,

WTF?

Sincerely,
geofft

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue May 15 01:49:24 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's like you were intending this protocol to only ever be implemented
by a crappy C implementation without modern language conveniences

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue May 15 01:51:14 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... now I am morbidly curious about the Lisp bindings.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue May 15 01:51:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think one of my coworkers was workign on those

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue May 15 01:51:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Or maybe it was motif bindings

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 08:17:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

whoa

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 15 08:17:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That is so weird.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:19:07 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Snape for Headmaster!

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:19:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Snape, Snape, Severus Snape.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:21:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

ron! ron! ron rivest!

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:22:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill! Bill!

Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:22:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

i wonder if you can make an all mit professors version.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m.prnf
Time: Tue May 15 20:22:13 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Human tapeworms can grow up to twenty-two point nine meters. <asedeno>

kaduk++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May 15 20:26:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear gcc, how are you adding an int64_t and a size_t and getting an
unsigned long

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May 15 20:27:33 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, a size_t is unsigned, I wanted an ssize_t. Right. Carry on then

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:22:43 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dammit OS X

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:22:49 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Stop being made of fail

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:26:06 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I installed "command-line tools" and ... appear to have lost some
locales.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:27:54 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dammit, did you overwrite my /usr/bin/git

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:28:16 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, no, my git was in /usr/local/git/bin/git. Okay then.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 15 21:29:35 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I kind of wish I had a Mac at home so I could get sufficiently annoyed
to try to yak shave the competent-packaging-for-OS-X problem

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:24:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I am being _ridiculously_ unproductive at work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: 'THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PALMS FOR THE FACE' -geofft, on prefrosh <fawkes>

I am being _ridicolously_ unproductive at MIT. coincidence?

Also ... why are you at work at 9:30pm anyway? (probably a stupid
question given your habbits of the past)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Doxi:
x1) go home, tool
x2) stay here, tool
x3) go home, sleep early, hope tomorrow will be better

I did x3 yesterday, and ended up sleeping in.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I got here at 3.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

== fawkes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This should surprise nobody

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: "Without profit, there is no god." -timecube.com <fawkes>

3 /w more alarms.

Or pretend to 3 but actually 1?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:25:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

x1 or x3

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:26:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Dude, I thought you had a real sleep schedule. What happened.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:26:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I dunno!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:27:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess part of it was that last week gave me a strong incentive to
actually be somewhere by 9 AM, but it doesn't hugely matter if I get
to work at 9 AM or 3 PM

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:29:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

you could perhaps structure your work such that you have
meetings at 10am?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:29:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't think I could have meetings if I wanted to.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:29:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I tried to go to a meeting a few weeks ago and was told I didn't need
to be there and was more useful coding

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:38:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh. Have I not eaten more than one meal today?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Crap.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 00:40:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: That which does not kill you has made a tactical error. <eichin>

one of my ex-coworkers is planning to get on
zephyr more at least partly so we can remind him to eat :)

Class: geofft Instance: osx.ptrace
Time: Wed May 16 12:46:31 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

starking
> Ahahaha temp_patch_ptrace is the best function

i remember when trying to find a way to backfit PAGs looking at it.
decided it was hideous.

and basically this summarizes things pretty nicely.
http://subreption.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x-104-temp_patch_ptrace-nonsense-in-kernel-land/

Class: geofft Instance: eiirc
Time: Wed May 16 14:48:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Geez have I not touched config-package-debhelper since June? Wow

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Wed May 16 15:54:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

VP: "Maybe if [this other company] wants to do a Barney partnership..."
CTO: "What's a Barney partnership?"
VP: "'I love you, you love me'"

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Wed May 16 15:54:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did they sing it??

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Wed May 16 15:54:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: work.q
Time: Wed May 16 15:54:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Thankfully

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed May 16 15:55:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay what sort of incompetent excuse for an OS doesn't have pkg-config

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed May 16 15:56:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

One filled with cats.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed May 16 16:31:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Kiiinda want to hack on non-work stuff for several days straight

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Wed May 16 17:00:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Location:        REYKJAVIK

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:34:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Woo diffdiffdiffs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:34:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oh no, what did you do?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:35:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ran svn diff on a debdiff of a change to a quilt patch

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:36:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's entirely reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:37:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 16 20:38:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In other news, I'm working on recursive colordiff

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:54:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder what the least-bad way to check out every single source
package is

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:54:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm going to assume that doing a bzr branch of everything will take
more disk space than I have.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:54:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Be responsible for the lintian lab

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:55:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Wanna give me an account on it?"

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:56:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Actually, how much disk space is the lab? That is actually a useful
number

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

so I can figure out if I can pull this off abusing local disk
somewhere at SIPB or on my work desktop, or need to figure out
something more clever

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:56:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm currently using 781G. That's i386+amd64 archive mirror of
precise+quantal, and i386+amd64+source lintian lab

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:56:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(of the same)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:56:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hmmmmmmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 20:59:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They do sell terabyte hard drives.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed May 16 21:06:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

From: "Full Name" <careermgt@myway.com>
Subject: Information Regarding Employment
To: geofft@mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed May 16 21:07:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear Full Name,

Expression of discontent.

Valediction,
geofft

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Wed May 16 21:20:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

SIPB even has a couple of >1T spare drives.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed May 16 22:00:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

The kernel postinst is in perl. I am horrified.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed May 16 22:00:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

oh god

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Wed May 16 22:00:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

geofft@echo:/$ wc -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-2.6.32-41-generic.postinst
1088 /var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-image-2.6.32-41-generic.postinst

Class: geofft Instance: boss.q
Time: Wed May 16 23:32:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"No one expects the shimming"

Class: geofft Instance: boss.q
Time: Wed May 16 23:32:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[we may or may not have come up with a truly brilliant LD_PRELOAD
hack]

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 23:44:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

-> home! early!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 16 23:44:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

also in other news! I paid my taxes! and got my ticket signed! I am
now in violation of way fewer laws

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 13:25:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Geez guys why do you want me to talk to customers so much

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 13:25:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Y'all are the sales engineers, y'all are supposed to speak English so
I don't have to

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 13:38:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

so you can better made design descisions?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Thu May 17 14:30:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

rchasin / test / kchen  11:28  (All 8 Circulate)
    Oh, I actually ended up doing a Wheel Fan Thru and Roll yesterday.
    And apparently, unlike Wheel Thru and Roll, the beaus can't roll
    (because they're trading and stepping ahead).
jdreed / TIL / achernya  11:29  (To extend our reach to the stars above)
    Surely track 2 is not sufficient, you'd need the pin and the
    expiration?

i,i "Pin and Expiration is an awfully funny square dance call name"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 17 14:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

argh, sl

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 17 14:39:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You could just uninstall it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 17 14:39:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"ha ha"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 17 14:40:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Or alias it

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu May 17 14:42:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

What's with the little kids?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Thu May 17 14:44:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Peel And Trail Chain Thru <kchen>

Oh hey, the zsig has calls in it too.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Thu May 17 14:45:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Roll To A Wave <kchen>

(or at least, a call, and the word stars.)

Class: geofft Instance: nytimes
Time: Thu May 17 15:25:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 the people who make visualizations
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/business/dealbook/how-the-facebook-offering-compares.html

Class: geofft Instance: nytimes
Time: Thu May 17 15:28:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

That's a really good use of d3.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:26:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

If I showed up in town this weekend, who could make a food mob or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:27:20 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I could if it were on Saturday.  Sunday's taken, though.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:28:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Along <kchen>

fwiw, there's a Tech Squares dance Saturday evening, which you could
attend if you are interested.  (And might want to schedule around if
so.)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:28:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm vaguely imagining y'all kids will be studying on Sunday

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:28:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm. I was thinking lunch, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:29:06 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Ah.  Saturday lunch may be busy for me already.  Sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:29:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I would make time to go to a mob.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 18:29:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I guess \exists Monday afternoon after 4:30?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:06:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:06:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I may or may not be pulling out my number theory textbook

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:07:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:08:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I, uh, appear to have totally forgotten everything

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:08:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Stand back, I'm going to try math"

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Thu May 17 19:09:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think that "Stand back, I know regular expressions" may in fact be
the right answer to making sure that my thesis standardizes on using
"reference N" as opposed to "Ref. N" or "ref. N" or other variations.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 17 19:12:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, I guess I don't actually need to remember what a Jacobi symbol
is right now. Though I do feel guilty about not knowing.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:31:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Anyone else? :(

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:31:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

There is reasonable likelihood that I would come on a mob.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:31:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I would likely come as well

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:32:00 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Jesus Christ: Fully human, fully devine.  Piper: Fully lesbian... - SIPB office <wings>

YESSS!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:32:09 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: MIT administration can be modeled by bunnies and carrots. - remeyer <wings>

geofft come to Cambridge I will mob with you

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:33:44 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

I might.  "Ask me closer to the event."

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:34:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

I'd probably go

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:35:02 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'd try to show up on a food mob

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

I was all excited then I realized you were assembling people in
Cambridge :(

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yay

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:35:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh, I am totally up for food mobs out here in the general case.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:37:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

You could come to cambridge too!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:46:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I could probably do Saturday lunch. Sunday or Monday is also free for
me.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:59:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: QUOYNESS (n.) The hatefullness of words like 'relionus' and 'easiephit'. <ahailes>

I could possible too

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 19:59:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: YESNABY (n.) A 'yes, maybe' which means 'no'. <ahailes>

*possibly

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 20:00:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

west coast food mob!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Thu May 17 20:47:03 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

stark: I would mob.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:32:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[seat right in front of the exit row]
"Due to FAA restrictions, this seat does not currently recline"

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:32:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I.... will it start reclining by the time I board???

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:33:02 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Your true task has just begun, and you may not know in your life if you have succeeded in it, but only if you fail. - from the Last Unicorn <wings>

No, it'll start reclining after you land.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:33:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Aww.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:37:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

eeeeeeee!

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:37:16 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: "Why are you watching earthquakes on YouTube?"  "I miss home."  - remeyer, wings <wings>

ooooooo!

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:37:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

One of the security questions I can choose is "How much wood would a
woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?".

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:37:37 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: (on Seattle) It rains like twice a year there.  January through August and September through December. - andrewd <wings>

Wow

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:38:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I continue to assert the answer is "A woodchuck would chuck as much
wood as a wood chuck could chuck wood".

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:39:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Incorrect, the answer is something like ScRKPV8yrGhK6XJO8N+EaR5P

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:40:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Although Wolfram Alpha says
"The Ability of Woodchucks to Chuck Cellulose Fibers" by P.A.
Paskevich and T.B. Shea in Annals of Improbable Research vol. 1, no.
4, pp. 4-9, July/August 1995, concluded that a woodchuck can chuck
361.9237001 cubic centimeters of wood per day.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:40:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:40:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Although... that may have a few too many sig figs.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:40:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Do we need to summon oremanj to post the link to the paper explaining
why sigfigs are bad?

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:41:23 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: On unclasses, you can do anything. - haiiro <wings>

??

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 01:43:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

If I succeeed at zlogs, he posted this [1] to -c ezyang -i sigfigs on
April 20.

[1] http://av8n.com/physics/uncertainty.htm

Class: geofft Instance: virgin.website.q
Time: Fri May 18 02:06:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

geofft+++

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:37:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] Uh, I probably could go to something. Saturday lunch
conflicts with Guild and ASA stuff. Monday I'm free.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:37:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is this...tomorrow? Next Saturday?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:38:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'd totally consider going to a west coast food mob once I get out
there.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:39:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Tomorrow, I think. (Well, this weekend.)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:39:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am around and would join a food mob this weekend.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:47:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Yeah, this weekend.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:47:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

I think I'm going to say Monday pre-SIPB-meeting at Mary's (so like
5:15) unless people have strong preferences for another day

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:48:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would prefer a litle later, but I can do that.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:48:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

I probably can't make that, but *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:49:28 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I can make that.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:49:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

fine, we'll have three food mobs! one every single day!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 12:49:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

yay

Class: geofft Instance: are-you-thinking-what-im-thinking
Time: Fri May 18 12:54:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

wpa_supplicant has an internal TLS implementation

Class: geofft Instance: are-you-thinking-what-im-thinking
Time: Fri May 18 13:06:02 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

oooh what are you thinking?

Class: geofft Instance: are-you-thinking-what-im-thinking
Time: Fri May 18 13:17:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get that many creme pies?

Class: geofft Instance: are-you-thinking-what-im-thinking
Time: Fri May 18 13:29:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

"The Russian mafia has plenty of creme pies to trade for sploitz"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:53:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

I really like Oracle's buildings

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

I have to imagine that the architect said, "well, Larry, what does
Oracle do?", and Larry just drew the database flowchart symbol on a
piece of paper and started talking about it, and the architect totally
zoned out and took the paper home and worked from that.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:56:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

That's...basically accurate

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:56:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

In that Oracle HQ was designed to look like old-school hard disks

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:57:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

And then Larry came back and said, 'yup, this is all fine, but I need
a place for my yacht.'

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:57:16 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

I don't think it was accidental, ==broder

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:57:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I was told when I interviewed there that it wasn't accidental

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 13:58:33 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

Oracle HQ qould be much cooler if people other than Larry
had yachts there.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Fri May 18 14:05:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

woo

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 14:20:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Is there actually a yacht there? Awesome

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri May 18 14:20:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

But yeah, it looks incredibly non-accidental.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 15:21:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Reintegration of doom seems to have broken everything, sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 15:22:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

In other news, if you reintegrate a branch and delete it, Trac's
changeset viewer can't view commits on that branch....

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 15:22:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Either that or our Trac broke overnight

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 15:22:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Nope, the former.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri May 18 16:13:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

bah, people, quit wanting debhelper config-package-dev

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 16:19:44 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What version control system?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 16:26:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

svn

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Fri May 18 16:48:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

STRACE THE KERNEL

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 16:50:20 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I see.  SVN has a syntax to do that kind of thing, but it's subtle.  I
wish I were surprised that Trac doesn't manage to get that right.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 16:54:00 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: he can make even the act of putting on his dressing gown appear as a gesture of defiance <eichin>

it's not that subtle - "-r isn't actually ever what you want"
but trac presumably uses the API, no?

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Fri May 18 16:56:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

You know, I kind of miss Red Hat's interactive startup mode...

I wonder if systemd keeps that option.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri May 18 17:06:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

They want it because they're right

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Fri May 18 17:08:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

fyi interactive startup mode hasn't worked right in years

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri May 18 17:08:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

I know they're right! I just want them to not want it until it exists

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Fri May 18 17:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I don't know how they would keep that option, short of serializing the
whole boot.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Fri May 18 17:33:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Right.

Class: geofft Instance: systemd
Time: Fri May 18 17:33:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

systemd doesn't have to run it all in parallel, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.q
Time: Fri May 18 17:57:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

if [ $FORCE -eq 1 ]; then
    echo "Using -f is a terrible idea.  Press Ctrl-C to reconsider and"
    echo "save your machine, or Enter to continue."
    read r
fi

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.q
Time: Fri May 18 17:57:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ABANDON HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER THIS BRANCH

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.q
Time: Fri May 18 17:57:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Admittedly, this is the code that reinstalls your machine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 18:18:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Ugh, I hate reading Launchpad driver bugs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 18:19:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

They are full of users who don't understand Launchpad yelling at
other users who really don't understand Launchpad

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri May 18 18:19:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

and crappy workarounds that aren't actually what I care about

Class: geofft Instance: some-confused-person-on-lwn.q
Time: Fri May 18 18:27:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Re Fedora's release cycle:

"Having two releases in one year is insanely fast. It maintains the
system unstable, detracts new users and helps Ubunto and derivatives
stay ahead in popularity."

Class: geofft Instance: some-confused-person-on-lwn.q
Time: Fri May 18 18:30:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Wow. I guess two releases is cool only if your distribution smells
like coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: some-confused-person-on-lwn.q
Time: Fri May 18 18:30:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

ubuntu smells like coffee? WWINI

Class: geofft Instance: some-confused-person-on-lwn.q
Time: Fri May 18 18:31:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

also, how do i smelll it?!?!?!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri May 18 22:33:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

-> SFO -> wait for a bit -> BOS

Class: geofft Instance: geofft
Time: Sat May 19 00:36:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

Wait, geofft is in Boston AND I missed a geofft-life discussion?
Clearly I need to modify my filters slightly.

Class: geofft Instance: geofft
Time: Sat May 19 00:37:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

I'm in SFO, I'll be in Boston in a bit

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.lol
Time: Sat May 19 00:42:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

> X.Org: "A Wasteland of Unreviewedness" (Phoronix)
...
> Comments (none posted)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 00:59:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Woah, you *are* coming to Boston this weekend?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:01:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

in fact.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:02:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

I think I heard someone say they found your wooden leg in Right Front.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:02:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:04:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

er, why were you actually shipping up to boston?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:05:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

"why not"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:05:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

To see people, essentially, since I've failed to do so this term

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:06:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

To visit us all! For that food mob that never happened! To take tyger!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:06:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

anyway, it was a reference to a dropkick murphys song.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:07:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's a pretty decent song.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:08:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

What food mobs are planned?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:08:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Perk Up <kchen>

The Boston Pops version I think is better than the original, although
it's possible my hearing that version first biased my opinion.
(Didn't recognize the wooden leg reference, though.  No lyrics in the
Pops version :))

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:09:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I only know it from, uh, The Departed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:09:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Hm, not actually sure what to do with tyger. I probably want to put
it somewhere more secure than home, and I haven't arranged colo yetq

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:10:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

the only lyrics are
"""
I'm a sailor peg 
And I lost my leg 
I climbed up the topsails 
I lost my leg 
I'm shipping up to boston 
(whoa oh oh) 
x3 
I'm shipping off 
To find my wooden leg 
I'm a sailor peg 
And I lost my leg 
I climbed up the topsails 
I lost my leg 
I'm shipping up to boston 
(whoa oh oh) 
x3 
I'm shipping off 
To fing my wooden leg
"""

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:10:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I have a strong preference that you take it, because we don't really
have enough switch ports and it seems others may want to pull the same
stunt for summer for obvious reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:12:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Oh, right. :(
I can move switch ports, certainly. (I can also just take it and have
it down for a bit, but I have an annoying amount of state on it)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:13:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

kdrinkwa: I dunno, please have opinions on -i summon-food-mob

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:14:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I would not be adverse to deploying one of the netgear switches for
"ephemeral hardware", because I expect SMR with += 2 over the summer,
but....eh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:14:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

So Chris Colombo (IIRC) wanted to set up a server room for students

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:14:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

Because keeping their servers in their room was unacceptable for some
poorly-defined in-loco-parentis reason

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:15:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I would have brough 2 X2200 M2s if such a thing existed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:16:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: San Francisco. Boston 5/19-5/22. <geofft>

-> boarding, see y'all in the morning

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:16:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Safe trip!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:16:59 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

in-loco-parentis sounds like it gets used as an excuse for "I want
your dorm room to look like mine" a lot

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 01:17:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

in-loco-parentis sounds a lot like loco parent-ish

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 10:17:25 2012 Host: ET-NINETY.MIT.EDU
From: via ZephyrPlus <cesium>

[stark] i,i in-colo-parentis

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 14:53:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:09:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Is dwilson _still_ CokeComm?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:09:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"Congratulations, sipb-afs, you are no longer the worst SIPB service
at getting new maintainers"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:09:54 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: I HAVE LONG LEGS!  MY ASS CONCEALS NOTHING! - apfarr <wings>

sipb-afs? O.o

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I think the least crufty maintainer is... kaduk?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:17 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Jesus Christ: Fully human, fully devine.  Piper: Fully lesbian... - SIPB office <wings>

I... didn't know that was a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

/afs/sipb

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:32 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Demons run when a good man goes to war. - River, Doctor Who <wings>

What needs to be maintained?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The servers?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:10:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think I am the newest sipb-afs maintainer, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat May 19 15:11:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The backups need massaging occasionally, too.
And volumes created for new members and projects.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:31:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Okay, looks like Monday pre-SIPB-meeting at Mary's is on. I'm also up
for something at like 6 if people are around; I don't have strong
preferences for what/where

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:31:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(CBC would be tempting, but I want to be back on campus at 8)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:35:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

somewhere else in scenic central square?

(are you going to the tech squares saturday dance?)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:35:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I forget what's there.

(Yeah, that's the plan, but we'll see if I forgot everything)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Thelonious Monkfish?
There's Floating Rock or whatever, is that open yet?
I, uh, Moody's?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:36:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

It's totally possible to go to CBC and get
back to campus in two hours if people don't dive into their beer.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:36:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Floating Rock closed down. ;P  It's metamorphosing into a sushi
restaurant, not open yet afaik

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:36:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Wait, wat

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:36:56 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'm going to push for a place where I can
successfully avoid soybeans.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:37:11 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Yeah, Floating Rock opened, and did a very
rapid controlled flight into terrain.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:37:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There is Veggie Galaxy but it may not satisfy kcr's criterion

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:37:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"ew"

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:37:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Quentin suggests Friendly Toast, which is likely to be faster than
CBC.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:00 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

It is essentially impossible to avoid soy
at FT.  I've tried.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

Pepper Sky's?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Pepper Sky's is... not good

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I actually like Pepper Sky ...

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

*blink*

*shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Monkfish has vastly better Thai food, imo

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

but then, I'd be up for Thailand Cafe too

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob.d
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Okay I totally read that as Mokafish

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob.d
Time: Sat May 19 16:38:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I may have problems

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:39:04 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

*sigh*  Never mind, I'm out for tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:39:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Aw.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:39:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Miracle!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:39:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:41:15 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

That's going to be really crowded.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:42:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: mrow <catthu>

Pepper Sky is vastly superior to Monkfish for Thai food.

(that's all I dropped in to say)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:42:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

flour? clear conscience? mariposa? sandwiches? I'm just throwing stuff
out there.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:42:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"y'all pick something or I will just eat Anna's and I live in the
Mission so why would I ever need to eat Anna's"

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:43:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

newwwww

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:44:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

kdrinkwa: "sandwiches"?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:44:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Alioth <kdrinkwa>

it's not a place. flour, clear conscience, and mariposa are all places
that I believe serve sandwiches.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:45:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Okay, good, Central didn't get _too_ weirder

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:45:34 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: The water hit him and he had a thought. - House <wings>

"sandwich isn't a place, it's a state of mind"

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There's also that Moksa "pan-Asian tapas fusion" place, which I
haven't tried

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:51:41 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'm also going to toss out Four Burgers if
you're concerned about time spent.  (And I can eat there.)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Oh right! +1, although I'm not sure how much closer it is than CBC

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:52:57 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

CBC isn't far away at all.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:53:06 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(and neither is four burgers)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:56:26 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Technically speaking four burgers is
actually farther away than CBC but four burgers is a straigher shot.

They're both at most a 15 minute walk from W20.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:59:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Okay, there are people here who haven't been to CBC, we're going to
CBC

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:59:32 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

yay, I can go!

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:59:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Leaving at 5:40 from SIPB or meet us there at 6?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 16:59:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

does that work for everyone?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:04:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

What's CBC?
I half read the class, sorry if it was already said..

I think i can make that time though

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:04:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Cambridge Brewing Company

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:04:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Have you not been there either???

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:04:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

I have not O3o

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:05:15 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Bark, bark!  I'm making tree noises! - sleepy!codetaku <wings>

==

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:05:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

It's in One Kendall, near Friendly Toast / Beantowne / Kendall Cinema
/ etc.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:05:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(Flat Top Johnny's, Think Tank where Nerd Pub Trivia, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:06:14 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Pyrophilia is not a good reason to become a fire fighter. - lexrj [to me] <wings>

Is it... mainly for drinking?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:06:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

The burgers there are good.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:07:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

It's mainly for burgers (although they have other food things),
although they do have a pretty extensive and good beer selection, as
their name would imply.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:07:26 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

It is a reasonable place to go for food
and not drink anything alcoholic.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:07:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:43:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Leaving from SIPB shortly, as soon as I finish signing some keys

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat May 19 17:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

-> CBC

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 17:59:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, I've really liked Pepper Sky when I've gone.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 18:28:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

*shrug* I only tried their food a few times, so I won't strongly
assert that it's bad, but for me it was always bland and disappointing

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 18:28:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Whereas Monkfish is consistently high quality, whether I get Thai
noodles, sushi, or whatever else

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob.d
Time: Sat May 19 19:30:59 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

[stark]
I've always liked Pepper Sky; Monkfish is decent but always
struck me as trying too hard w.r.t. the fusion thing.  

Also, 
> Friendly Toast, which is likely to be faster than
"Hahahaha."  In my experience, if that sentence ends in anything 
other than "glaciation" it's a lie.  I haven't been there in a while
*because* I don't like waiting a full hour between ordering and
getting my food.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob.d
Time: Sat May 19 19:31:33 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Awww, adorable emo optimistic black souled piper. - lexrj <wings>

== on FT

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob.d
Time: Sat May 19 19:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

"You miscast Metabolic Englaciation. You are transported to The
Friendly Toast."

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sat May 19 20:11:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

FSILGs
fs ilg

Class: geofft Instance: squares
Time: Sat May 19 20:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I have forgotten everything :(

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea
Time: Sat May 19 21:25:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

debinyan-devel. It's just like debian-devel, except any thread over
five messages gets every word in subsequent messages replaced with
"nyan"

Class: geofft Instance: else.best-idea
Time: Sat May 19 21:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Hm, maybe not every word.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat May 19 21:57:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

PALO ALTO, Calif. (AP) – Facebook founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg
updated his status to "married" on Saturday.

[...]

The ceremony took place in Zuckerberg's backyard before fewer than
100 guests, who all thought they were there to celebrate Chan's
graduation.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:34:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is there still one planned for Monday?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:34:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:41:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

When?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:42:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and where)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:42:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I suppose that's probably still being figured out.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 22:45:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think "early dinner" at Mary's was decided? But geofft is the
authority here, he'll be back soon

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat May 19 23:02:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

"252,436 people like this."

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sat May 19 23:06:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: firewire teapot <eichin>

"with this ring, I... update my facebook status"

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 23:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yes, leaving SIPB at 5

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 23:40:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

to Mary's

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 23:44:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

OK. I will probably have to meet you there and may be a few minutes
behind, but I should be able to make it.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 23:45:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, "meet at Mary's at 5:20" is I think the plan.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Sat May 19 23:45:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

We've also successfully started later in the past, but it's pushing
making the meeting

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 01:31:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Blah, not even one day in Boston and I feel like it'd be useful for
me to be in SF.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 01:32:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(Not that I did not have fun today. It's just that life tends to
continue even in places where you're not)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 01:41:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

wonder what my plan for tomorrow should be. I have this vague
suspicion it should involve thesing.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

PGP keysigning: the drinking game.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:52:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Every time you sign a key, take a sip.
Every time someone asks a question about gpg's UI, take a sip.
If someone signs a key by mistake, fails to check a full fingerprint,
  or fails to check ID, finish your drink.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:53:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

You must keep your key unlocked (via gpg-agent) if you have a drink.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:53:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

This is going to become progressively worse....

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideaas
Time: Sun May 20 01:54:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

-> try harder to sleep before any more ideas enter my conscious brain

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:37:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I wonder the extent to which scripts and XVM have encouraged new
projecs to not be SIPB projects, because SIPB is no longer capable of
giving out one-off resources to small SIPB projects that are better
than the resources they give to everyone.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:37:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Ha! I could believe that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:38:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Certainly for large projects, there are things like hardware
purchases, but nobody is going to give any hardware to something that
merely needs a not-too-powerful VM or just some web hosting.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:39:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

SIPB has resources, and resources are going to be generally useful for
infrastructure, not applications.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:41:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Welcome to Cloud SIPB.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Services as a service.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:42:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I mean, it is the obvious next service for SIPB to build, and as far as
I'm concerned we're just waiting for a motivated prospective to make it a
reality.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:42:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Hm, what in particular? A more abstracted thing than XVM?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 14:42:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Yes (remember, we talked about this last winter)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:42:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I should stop having loud opinions on zephyr on zephyr and get food or
something. Anyone want to get lunch? Or anyone want to hack on one of
those projects I should be hacking on at SIPB or somewhere?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:43:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

tis a bit late for lunch (sorry, just ate). But you're welcome to come by
Random.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:44:52 2012 Host: ET-NINETY.MIT.EDU
From: via ZephyrTopArcClockwiseArrowWithMinus <cesium>

"Wanna hack on Webathena?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:49:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Plausibly!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:49:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Although my definition of webathena is probably different from yours,
since I want kinit over Negotiate. :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:50:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, I have zero interest in Negotiate or any other browser
mechanism that browser vendors don't care about. I've worked on TLS
client auth and know how much of a disaster those technologies are.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, I could probably be convinced that I secretly don't want
Negotiate. Although my application here is a custom client and server
that happen to use HTTPS because 443/tcp is way more likely to be open
than, like, 88/udp. (Both use suboptimal HTTP libraries, so I'd be
somewhat happy to implement authentication support myself by encoding
information in cookies or whatnot than by hoping the libraries will
take care of it for me.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:57:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I mostly want Negotiate because it exists, and I like using other
people's authentication protocols more than designing my own.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:57:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(I think also on a more hand-wavey level, I'd like to see interesting
security mechanisms in web apps implemented more independently of
what the browser kernel provides. You don't need to put Kerberos into
the kernel to get kinit working on Linux. And so I'd like to see
kinit working on the web without putting it straight in the browser.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:57:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, agreed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:58:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Anyway, I think I'll drop by Random for a bit and see who's there, and
head to SIPB later in the day. I also need to visit ET at some point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:58:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

> Although my application here is a custom client and server that
> happen to use HTTPS because 443/tcp is way more likely to be open
> than, like, 88/udp.

Hee. Oh that problem. I love how TCP ports are basically dead and we
only have 80 and 443 now. And for deploying new protocols, you
basically only have 443 since 80 runs into all kinds of issues with
proxies.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.Xorg.brooks-law
Time: Sun May 20 14:59:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

> > "adding manpower to a late software project makes it later".
> 
> That's totally NOT the issue here..
> And it's not like X.Org has a deadline! And eventually those new
> developper will improve the project..

Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.Xorg.brooks-law
Time: Sun May 20 14:59:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I do wonder if adding manpower to a late 1.0 release, ignoring when
1.0 comes out, and targetting 2.0 as being good makes 2.0 earlier or
later

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:59:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

443 occasionally runs into issues with proxies too ...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 14:59:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Less frequently. Way less.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 15:00:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"depends who your target audience is"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 15:00:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

It occurs to me we should probably be negotiating and doing
encryption in the HTTP request/response bodies in case the secure
tunnel is compromised.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 15:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, I could believe geofft's target audience has a different story.
These numbers are still amusing.

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg05593.html

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun May 20 17:54:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  17:53  (Surrender now or prepare to fight!)
    wtf is hipster church "I believed in jesus before he was raised from the
    dead"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun May 20 17:58:57 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Remember, ksplice does not yet support humans. - gdb <wings>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun May 20 18:55:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

-> SIPB

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:37:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_offspring_of_incestuous_relationships

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:38:43 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Wait, no rot13("Wbsserl Onengurba")?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:39:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Gur frevrf vf va
uggc://ra.jvxvcrqvn.bet/jvxv/Pngrtbel:Vaprfg_va_svpgvba

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:39:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

that *cannot* be a complete list

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:40:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

So fix it

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:40:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I am now tempted to hack barnowl to add :rot13 support, because using
tr for this is not great :|

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:41:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

rot13(1)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:41:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

"That doesn't help the copy paste-problem". Also, O_o

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:42:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Nygubhtu V fhccbfr guvf jbexf.
.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 19:43:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

"sadly, I haven't filed 'fictional characters by incest' in my brain"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Sun May 20 19:46:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

:pperl ($t = BarnOwl::getcurmsg()->{body}) =~ y/A-Za-z/N-ZA-Mn-za-m/; $t
doesn't help sending them, though.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun May 20 20:23:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I think I'm going to read the multiarch spec carefully because it's
not all in my head yet

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 20:58:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Woah, didn't realize that Linux 3.4 includes Yama _and_ x32

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 20:58:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

This is an exciting release

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:00:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is this compatible with SELinux? e.g., will Fedora ever run with this?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:00:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Those are 2 very different questions

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:00:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The question was "will it run", not "will it ship"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:12:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Which, Yama or x32?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:12:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yama is an LSM. If LSM stacking works, SELinux should work.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:12:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I was asking about yama. Sorry about the confusion.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

x32 is cool.  Am I correct that distro multiarch support is fairly
important for x32 to be widely useful?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:14:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Basically, yes, since it's about syscall API, and it's usually your
libc that makes syscalls, and your x32 process and amd64 libc are
going to use different ABIs

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:17:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I am amused by the debate over whether time_t should be 32 bits
http://lwn.net/Articles/456731/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:18:26 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

has that ship not sailed?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:19:06 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

oh, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:19:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think it has been settled.  I am still amused by the debate.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:22:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

So how long before the first x32 privilege escalation hole?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:22:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"Tonight, if you want to try"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sun May 20 21:26:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I ... probably shouldn't.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Sun May 20 21:26:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

"Who all thought they were there to celebrate Chan's graduation."

nice

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:48:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"I went to Flapjacks for Finals."
"Did you flap some jacks?"
"No, the flaps were pre-jacked. ... Uh, er, the jacks were
pre-flapped, these things are hard to keep straight"

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:49:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

I also feel like publicly flaping jacks would get you arrested for
indecent exposure.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:50:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does either "flap" or "jack" even have a meaning as a noun or verb?

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:50:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Or for trying to fly away from the CPs during tours.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:51:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

That said, jacking flaps seems like a useful way to get to the inside
of an airplane wing to repair it

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:54:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sure, a jack is one of those little spiked thingies that you do
something with involving a rubber ball.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:55:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also something you lift up a car with.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:55:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Or the thing you use to lift up a car to change a tire.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:55:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, okay, so antyhnig *relevant*?

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:55:47 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Or a thing you stick a plug into.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:56:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(It turns out flap is a transitive verb meaning ": to toss sharply : fling ", so
yes.)

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:56:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Also as in "flapping in the wind"

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:56:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yes, but one hopes that neither jacks, jacks, or Jacks are prone to
flapping.

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:58:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

SUre, as in, "unflapped".

Class: geofft Instance: oq
Time: Sun May 20 21:58:44 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Yeah, unflappable jacks are best.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 22:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I guess I should learn ballroom dancing as a cultural literacy thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 22:06:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

you could also learn lindy hop
http://wednesdaynighthop.com/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 22:54:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Blah, I should make a separate Facebook account for the purpose of
Spotify...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun May 20 22:54:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I guess that's easy.

Class: geofft Instance: clyde.q
Time: Sun May 20 23:15:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"a known bug in Photoshop CS5 where loading a boobytrapped TIFF can
execute arbitrary code. Adobe's security fix is to sell it as
notmykink."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:39:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

... Hrm, I don't think the shell respects ^C in the middle of wildcard
expansion

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:39:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"sorry, tribbl.es users"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Nor SIGTERM nor SIGHUP! kill -9 to the rescue

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:41:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Did you do a * in an AFS directory with ETOOMANY filse?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:43:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I did a grep */*/*/postinst on broder's Lintian server

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun May 20 23:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

And, uh, several minutes passed and I didn't see a grep process

Class: geofft Instance: slightly-worrisome
Time: Mon May 21 00:40:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"db_get heimdal-kdc/password"

Class: geofft Instance: slightly-worrisome
Time: Mon May 21 00:41:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Hey guys let's store our KDC password in Heimdal

Class: geofft Instance: slightly-worrisome
Time: Mon May 21 00:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

er, in debconf

Class: geofft Instance: slightly-worrisome
Time: Mon May 21 00:41:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

it's late

Class: geofft Instance: slightly-worrisome
Time: Mon May 21 00:41:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

... it's not the only program that stores its password in debconf

Class: geofft Instance: ecumenism.n-c
Time: Mon May 21 02:37:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

augh

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon May 21 02:55:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Virgil Mobile. "Phones and a plan I sing, who, forced by fate, and
haughty Ma Bell's unrelenting hate..."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 21 02:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I forgot one huge advantage of living in SF -- other people tend to
wind down sending you emails etc. you care about around midnight, not
around 3 AM

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 11:12:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Wait, you can have a kvno of 0?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 13:37:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Reminder, since this instance got confusing on Friday:
Mary's, today, leaving SIPB at 5 or meeting there at 5:20

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 21 14:00:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

-> lunch somewhere -> CSAIL

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 14:44:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

High schools should teach regular expressions instead of sig figs

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 14:44:17 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W Faraone <lfaraone>

==

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 14:44:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

True -- people using significant figures is only embarrassing for
them, but people misusing regular expressions is hilarious for
everoyne.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 14:44:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Uh, "misusing" both times.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon May 21 14:45:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

ITYM s/using/mis&/

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 15:33:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

FWIW, I'm probably going to be late today - maybe arriving at 5:40 or
so

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 15:34:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, it sounds like a good number of people will run late. I think
it's probably more optimal just to acknowledge that than to push the
start time later (we'll take our time ordering or something)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 15:35:02 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

The mob seems potentially large enough that it might fragment.

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 16:00:10 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W Faraone <lfaraone>

I will similarly maybe be late or miss it. 

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 16:08:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Well, I'd hate to say we start at 6/6:30 because then we can't make
the SIPB meeting. You're definitely welcome to show up late

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 16:23:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

If you order at 5:30, the food should arrive around 6 and that's plenty
of time to get to the meeting.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Mon May 21 16:45:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

git diff --color-predicates

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 17:03:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

OK, -> Mary's

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 17:04:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Enjoy. See you soon.

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Mon May 21 17:04:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I hear there's a pure-Python Kerberos implementation... anyone have
details?

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Mon May 21 17:04:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(I think someone's mentioned this on this class)

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 17:09:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

[as expected, we're running a few minutes late]

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 17:29:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Are we waiting for anyone other than quentin?

Class: geofft Instance: summon-food-mob
Time: Mon May 21 17:29:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

oh, and Luke?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:29:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Attempted to get an alum ID, but after discussing with the card
office, we decided that it was better for me to keep my current ID,
since it remains active for a bit and it's plausibly useful for me to
continue to have e.g. CSAIL access

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:32:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As Couples Peel The Top <kchen>

I wouldn't expect CSAIL access to be affected by getting a new card.
Don't know if my expectations are wrong, or whether the person in the
card office you talked to is confused.  (For example, I still have EC
access with my current alum card.)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:33:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Crossfire & Cross <kchen>

I did lose CSAIL access around the time I stopped showing up in the
CSAIL online directory.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:34:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ends Bend Split Square Thru 3 <kchen>

Although waiting until your card expires before getting an alum card
does mean that you can keep your student card if you want to.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:36:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Any access your student ID has will carry over to an alum ID.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The way you lose access is if you let your ID be inactive for N days.
(So it's much better if you go get your alum ID now, rather than let
your student ID expire)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:37:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, point, hrm.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:38:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Turn & Deal & Roll <kchen>

If you were in town, I'd say to go the day after your student card
expires (for the purpose of keeping your student card), which did not
result in my losing access, but that's more difficult for you.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 19:38:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Knowing you, Geoffrey, I think you should go get your alum card now
before you forget.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:17:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, do they take your student ID back if it's expired, but not if it
isn't?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:17:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Err, vice-versa.)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:17:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

When am I supposed to get a new student ID as an MEng student?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:17:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

When your old one expires?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:18:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

6/30/2012?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:18:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, oh. Uh, before, or after?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:19:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm going to be out of town (with possible short exceptions) between
6/11ish and 1/10ish.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:20:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Before.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:21:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mmkay. How much before? (Can I go in when I'm next on campus to do it?)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:22:35 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

adehnert: They take it back if it's unexpired since you can't have two
unexpired IDs at the same time.  But if it's expired, they don't care
since it's no longer valid.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:22:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

They took my expired one.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:23:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Back of the Hill. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

the card services office is remarkably inconsistent about their
policies.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:23:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

You can also just say "I don't have it with me"... Mitch has a huge
number of cards

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:23:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

This was at your undergrad->MEng transition, Geoff?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:23:48 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "This is now classic because I used it in my PhD thesis. I wish I hadn't." --tlp <pquimby>

So do I.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:25:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

It was last summer, which was technically right after SB graduation,
but was after I'd transititioned status

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Mon May 21 20:25:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I'd failed to renew my card for like three weeks

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:26:23 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "We are not rich and famous. Therefore the algorithm is slow." --tlp <pquimby>

Do we have to get a new ID when we become grad students?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:26:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Copley. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

you have to get it when your id expires, if you're still a student.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:27:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, usually your ID expires after four years, but it's not tied to
student status.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office.d
Time: Mon May 21 20:27:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

er, _kind_ of student status

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 21 20:38:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

... I'm a product manager?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 21 20:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

When did that happen *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 21 20:39:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I guess I arguably PM _myself_, but still

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon May 21 20:41:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Relatedly, I should really teach the sales engineers to, uh, engineer
more

Class: geofft Instance: scripts.prnf
Time: Mon May 21 21:57:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pdzq6/

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon May 21 21:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/7584_18438_Steak_HP_POV_776x315.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon May 21 21:59:54 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

um

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 00:48:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I think ... one of the Mar{c,k}s.  But I don't think it was a full
implementation.

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 01:06:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yeah, I vaguely recall it was marc

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 01:07:33 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I want to say that one of them did python and the other perl.

Class: geofft Instance: keithw
Time: Tue May 22 11:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

http://i.qkme.me/3pe8vf.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:29:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Discuss.

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:29:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I haven't looked at it enough yet.

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:29:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

(<https://lwn.net/Articles/498161/>)

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:36:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I can't particularly figure out what printerd does better than CUPS,
but it's not hard to imagine a new codebase doing generically better
than CUPS.

Given that it's interface is D-Bus, not IPP, it sounds like it should
be easy for it to run in the session bus instead of the system one if
nobody needs access to physical printer devices, which is an amazing
decision for approximately every use case that doesn't include
physical printer devices (i.e., most of my use cases in the last
several years), and even those who do can spawn another global
printerd and have the session one pass documents to the global one.
Given
http://cyberelk.net/tim/2012/03/08/session-printing/
I can believe that's where they're going with this.

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:37:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(and as Tim points out in the comments, given authentication
requirements, you can't actually assume that a daemon running as root
can successfully print to your user printers)

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:38:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, fuck, what?  Are we changing the printer subsystem _again_?

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:38:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Yes, and it'll be awesome

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:38:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Probably a drug deal.

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:39:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

mix?

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:39:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: printerd
Time: Tue May 22 11:39:19 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Not entirely lacking in applicability...

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:29:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I have to type my work password three times in short succession to log
in remotely (once to get on the VPN, once to get to my desktop, once
to kinit)

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:31:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

At some point, the Enterprise redefined "single signon" to mean "You
type the same password three times", as an improvement over "You type
three different passwords".

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:31:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Well, I won't disagree that it's an improvement.

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Also, I could fix one of these by configuring my desktop to pam_krb5

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:31:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: She is extremely talented with regard to tenacity.  Though she has no other merits. <eichin>

ah, see, here it's just called "SSO"
which we expand to "six or seven signon"

Class: geofft Instance: lol-single-signon
Time: Tue May 22 13:32:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

"You type one password once" is now regarded as something of a fairy
tale.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:53:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

OK, got an alum ID. They didn't take my student one.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:53:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I wonder what has access to what.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:54:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

They don't take expired cards.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:54:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

But mine's not expired... it expires 6/30/2012

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:54:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

oh, weird.

Class: geofft Instance: FB
Time: Tue May 22 13:55:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:55:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass The Ocean, Swing Thru, Girl U-Turn Back <kchen>

Your alum card should have access to everything except for W20 4th
floor doors, and your student card should have access to nothing
except for W20 4th floor doors.  (At least, if it's been 15 minutes or
so since you got your card replaced.)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:56:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:56:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

wow, that's irritating.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:56:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

But the real question is whether e.g. I still have access to Next
(which I did a few months ago)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Veer Left <kchen>

I would expect that the answer is yes.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

just in case you didn't already find carrying one of the cards around...

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Veer Left <kchen>

re: irritating
You can get the W20 4th floor doors reprogrammed, but you have to ask
CAC to do so.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Well, I have a ton of stupid crap in my wallet, carrying additional
cards is essentially not an issue

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

"conveniently, I don't care about those doors, and I don't even carry
either ID"

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:57:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain Down The Line <kchen>

(It just takes an e-mail with the request and MIT ID number and which
doors.)

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:58:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I also actually have no idea what fourth floor doors I have access to.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:58:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Like I may or may not still count as ASA for 401 access, and I may or
may not still count as ASA for small activities offices access, and I
have no idea of those two are even correlated.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:58:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Only 4th floor magstripe doors require updating. Prox card readers will
update immediately.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 13:59:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

Is ASA in the ASA database?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 14:00:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Circulate <kchen>

Looks like it is.  Don't know if you have office access or small
activities access, but you're still a financial and reservation
signatory.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 14:01:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run <kchen>

But ==quentin; so you should be able to just try your card on the
small activities office door if you want to see.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 14:03:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(I think "immediately" for all of these is {N|N<60} minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 14:05:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

[stark]
https://github.com/mhorowitz/pykrb5

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 14:06:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

He got far enough to send a zephyr with it.

Class: geofft Instance: python.kerberos
Time: Tue May 22 14:07:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

!!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 22 15:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Bah, hardware

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 22 15:08:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Why are you so weird

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 22 15:08:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

-> Stata, looks like the rain let up a bit

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue May 22 15:42:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Anyone I haven't seen yet?

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Tue May 22 15:45:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

You could come visit Ksplice in our new office!!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:42:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

tyger:~ geofft$ uptime
 16:29:55 up 394 days, 14:38, 24 users,  load average: 0.39, 0.38, 0.36

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:42:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

rip

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:42:57 2012 Host: TYGER.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

yeah...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:43:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I kinda want to hibernate it, or better yet tether it to my phone (and
hibernate during takeoff and landing and then connect it to inflight
wifi), but that seems silly.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:44:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

oh, lemme go kill my screen

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:41:55 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

This is your... laptop?!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:44:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"laptop"

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:44:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I believe it has a broken screen and has been in a server room for 394
days.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:44:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

""laptop""

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:45:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

what quentin said

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

==quentin

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

i,i /mit/kchen/bin/fixscreen

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:45:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

It has a built-in UPS!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Anyway, for those who care, tyger.ldpreload.com will continue to work.
(I may even open it up a bit as linerva-west for people who are in the
Bay Area this summer)

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:49:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

linerva-west will probably be quite sad; AFS doesn't deal well with
high-latency links

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:49:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"well we can fix that"

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:50:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I was going to say.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:50:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...moshfs?!

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:50:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"AFS already runs over UDP"

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:50:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I'm pretty sure I don't want my fs client predicting what my files are...

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:52:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

I mean, the prediction is honestly the least interesting part about
mosh.

Class: geofft Instance: tyger
Time: Tue May 22 16:53:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

The actually interesting guarantee that mosh makes is that UI latency
will be at worst roughly network latency, as opposed to "network
latency plus some arbitrarily large suck factor"

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 18:49:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Is ASA in the ASA database?

Huh, do we expose who is assigned to which offices in the DB?

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 18:49:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I totally don't understand what data CAC keeps about what cards have access to
what offices.

Class: geofft Instance: card-office
Time: Tue May 22 18:52:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ferris Wheel, Centers Sweep 1/4 <kchen>

I meant that Geoff could check in the ASA database whether he was
supposed to have office access to any ASA offices.

Class: geofft Instance: xprod
Time: Tue May 22 19:28:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I should really get around to taking voice lessons

Class: geofft Instance: t
Time: Tue May 22 19:33:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Three #1s lined up next to each other at 77... I see the T has
remained competent

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Tue May 22 22:52:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I think I've grown as a person in the last couple of years...  but I
have no idea how to verbalize how I've grown / what I've learned.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Tue May 22 22:53:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

pv

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Tue May 22 22:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

Have you tried just running a git diff?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Tue May 22 22:54:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

svn blame

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent.d
Time: Tue May 22 23:31:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

pv?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.tangent
Time: Tue May 22 23:32:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Anyway, the original thought before I got distracted by the bus
getting where I wanted was that I feel like there are some things I've
gotten slightly better at, would like to get a lot better at, and
don't know how to descri e to myself how I got better so I can do that
more.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:05:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Really, it's midnight?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:06:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go to bed.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:06:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I'm trying to think if there was anything I forgot to deal with

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:07:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Reinstall all the office heads

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:11:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You go to bed too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Oh right. I guess I can do that remotely, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:12:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I...no. Please, don't do that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:12:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Awww

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:25:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Oh right, that's what I forgot!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:25:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Food!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 00:25:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I _knew_ I was forgetting something dumb and obvious I needed to do
tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Wed May 23 00:31:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 23 00:39:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Also, MySQL Little Pony

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 02:55:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Taxi driver asked me for directions.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 02:55:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

To be clear, I was walking down the street, not a customer.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 02:56:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I've totally had that happen to me.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 02:56:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

He was standing outside his cab looking at house numbers.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 02:59:21 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Huh, these days they all seem to have GPS navigation units.  I wonder how
his had failed him.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 03:05:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: He's made fiddle strings of her long yellow hair <kdrinkwa>

turns out he was looking for something on the other half of Washington
St.

Washington St. is one-way in the "away from Windsor St" direction.
It's kind of strange.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed May 23 03:05:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Wild birds ride the wind and fly <kdrinkwa>

I could easily imagine this being confusing on a GPS unit

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed May 23 03:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

So I got the formal clothes I'd forgotten to pack last time... but it
turns out they include 0 tuxes and 2 suit jackets. I don't actually
remember owning two suits, but they both fit me ~perfectly, so they
must be mine... (I remmember one of them.)

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed May 23 03:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

I guess the last time I wanted formal clothes I wanted a suit, not a
tux, so I don't actually remember whether I have my tux. I probably
do.

Class: geofft Instance: packing
Time: Wed May 23 03:31:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Also, oops, left my charger at SIPB. I was hoping not to need to swing
by W20 :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 09:34:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Still as competent at waking up as ever

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 10:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

(new flight is at 4:30, so I'll be around campus for a bit)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 23 10:54:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:43:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

linerva-official

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:44:42 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

linny-talk

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:50:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Dear student cgroups:

Please take note of the following announcements.

1. Reminder about public dialup policies
2. First Year Summer Zephyring
3. Early sigreturns

1. As a reminder, student cgroups are limited to one process per login
per core, no more than 18 minutes by 24 MB. Please visit the following
page for more details:
...

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:50:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

... You know, maybe we should have such a policy

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:50:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

There go the large barnowls.

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:51:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The sad thing is that e-mail sounds completely reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:51:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

especially "First Year Summer Zephyring"

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:52:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

One process/core? So on a single core you can have sshd or your shell but not both?
And no application software? Umm.

Class: geofft Instance: else.braino
Time: Wed May 23 11:53:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

jhawk, entire cores are reservable through the Campus Activities
Context-switch, you know this

Class: geofft Instance: roomq.ezyang.uap
Time: Wed May 23 13:10:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"Oh man, this looks like one of Edward's blogposts."

Class: geofft Instance: roomq.ezyang.uap
Time: Wed May 23 13:10:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

"I can totally hear Edward saying this too"

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Wed May 23 14:01:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boston through Tuesday <geofft>

Every released gcc binary is a fixed point of itself

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Thu May 24 02:10:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Bisphenol!    No, we will not let you drink!   Let him drink!
Bisphenol!    No, we will not let you drink!   Let him drink!
...
Beezlebub has a bottle set aside for me... for me... for me!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 24 02:24:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Oh huh, Obama was in Redwood City today?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu May 24 02:34:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for MODELS! <geofft>

Home (as of a bit ago). Sleep schedule is broken in no small part due
to falling asleep on the plane, but trying to sleep a bit now anyway

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu May 24 02:34:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Worst case, I get to work super-early.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu May 24 02:47:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

oops, started reading The Economist

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Thu May 24 02:49:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

"The Merkozy era is over. So how to label the partnership of Angela
Merkel and François Hollande? Merging first names to make Frangela is
too familiar for leaders who barely know each other. Homer is to
American (or worse, Greek). Merkollande sounds too close to Merkozy.
That leaves just the shortened Merde, which at least sums up the state
of the Euro."

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Thu May 24 02:49:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

haha

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Thu May 24 02:58:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu May 24 13:38:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for FARMERS! <geofft>

http://reddit.com/r/sidehugs

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Thu May 24 13:39:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

I think this is /r/christianity meets /r/circlejerk?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:36:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I do wish MIT had a grad students' union.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:36:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

(Possibly an all-working-students union, i.e., ~all grad students,
UROPs, etc. etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:36:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Although it's less amusing to unionize now that Hockfield is gone.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "...and how 18.06 makes you Batman!" - riv <jessiehl>

I wish a lot of places had grad students'/working students' unions.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:37:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. <mherdeg>

Could be tough for MIT grad students to unionize, given that their
stipends keep getting reasonable cost-of-living increases.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:37:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

The downfall of democracy comes when the government learns it can
bribe the people with their own money, &c.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:39:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M. Farrell, or a parody thereof <afarrell>

Also when there already exists the GSA

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:39:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Pass Thru <kchen>

What's the relevance of Hockfield?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:40:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

She brutally crushed a union uprising at Yale.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:40:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

Which is about the only interesting story anyone seems to have about
her. Bizarre.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:40:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I think obama would win, because obama can fly!" - clyde <jessiehl>

afarrell: The point of an actual union is that it has more teeth than
a student lobbying group.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:41:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

What teeth can a grad students' union actually have, though?  Going on
strike isn't really plausible...

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:42:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:42:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

GOing on strike is the standard thing, particularly the TAs.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:42:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

"we're going to go off and these and not do any teaching and avoid any
non-thesis-related research"

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:42:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I guess I was mostly thinking of RAs.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:43:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

At Michigan the RAs did the strike too.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:43:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Since "I'm not working on my thesis in protest." seems like a thing
that would end up working poorly.  I suppose a TA strike is more
reasonable...

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:43:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A TA/lab assistant/researcher/etc strike is totally reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:43:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

I think the big difference is that at Michigan, the people
who really cared about the union were in shitty majors that
get no funding (English, Music, History) and largely don't
exist at MIT.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:44:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

Union demands were things like "You must offer TA funding
for at least 10 semesters to every student you admit,
rather than just cutting funding as a way of doing layoffs"

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:44:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Ten semesters? That's only half an anthropology degree!

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:44:38 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

The hard science PhDs were always like "fuck no, I don't
want to teach for 10 semesters. Oh, I see, this is the
English majors"

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:44:46 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

What do you mean, don't exist at MIT?  We have like a whole wing of a
building devoted to our vibrant and well-respected humanities
departments!

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:45:03 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

I said largely.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:45:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

(I guess, honestly, research assistants are less scab-vulnerable than
TAs or your average unionized worker, because people who've worked on
a project for a long time tend to become not very interchangable.  But
it still seems like striking on your thesis would lead to academic
consequences that would make it hard to get people do actually do so.)

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:45:26 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

I would be unsurprised that MIT accidentally funds it's
humantities PhDs much better than universities with more of
them.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:46:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. NYC 5/29? Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

The theory at Michigan is that if you strike for a day or a
week, you fuck up the undergrad classes, which gets the
university pressure from students, parents, and politicians.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Marissa's union at UCLA only represents teaching assistants and
hasn't ever done much for her (but she has not had any teaching
job-related administrative problems). Somehow her department's
student grad student association has negotiated cost-of-living wage
increases, but only for RAs, so there's actually now an economic
disincentive to teach a class.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu May 24 15:49:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Her health benefits are not very good (campus health center but not
the real UCLA hospital), her teaching load was never controversial,
her tuition-related administrative fees have always been waived, and
she's never needed to file a grievance ... so United Auto Workers
really hasn't been getting her much. Now, if it could pressure her
advisor to sign her thesis...

Class: geofft Instance: work-except-maybe-distracted
Time: Thu May 24 20:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Huh, the xnu start.s looks way smaller than I remember the equivalent
JOS code being. _Or_ the equivalent Linux code

Class: geofft Instance: work-except-maybe-distracted
Time: Thu May 24 20:57:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for HUNTERS! <geofft>

although I'm misremembering.

Class: geofft Instance: xnu
Time: Thu May 24 22:07:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for PETS! <geofft>

thread_depress_abort
Function - Cancel thread scheduling depression.

Class: geofft Instance: xnu
Time: Thu May 24 22:07:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

"I wish you could call that function on people"

Class: geofft Instance: xnu
Time: Thu May 24 22:11:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Thu May 24 22:20:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for SURGEONS! <geofft>

/mit/darwin/src/downloads/athena-6.tar.gz

Class: geofft Instance: sigh
Time: Thu May 24 23:32:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Hillsdale Mall closed early because of a power outage. Now I have to
wait an hour for the next Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:45:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

My bike tire appears to be... not on the wheel. Is there anything I
can do myself to fix it, or do I need to take it to a bike shop?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:46:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You can, but if you've been riding it like that and only just noticed,
I'd take it to a shop to have it checked out.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:46:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Um.  I'm not sure I am correctly picturing what you describe.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for COUGARS! <geofft>

No, it was probably messed with overnight. I left it outside :(

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:46:59 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, the tire is off the rim, right?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:47:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:47:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

I wonder if it's merely deflated

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:47:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Front or back wheel?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:47:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

yeah, if you've been riding it like that, you may have messed up the
tire or the rim.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:47:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

back

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:48:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

It may have been punctures/slashed overnight? It's very not ridable
now and was fine last night

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:48:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, back is more annoying to deal with.
Provided that you have a bike pump, you in principle can deal with it
yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:48:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for COUGARS! <geofft>

I don't have one :(

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:48:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, then you're sunk.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Fri May 25 14:48:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I should, like, just leave the bike here and find alternate means t
commute to work

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:36:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Bought an iPad. Now I need a name for it

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:36:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

fun fact: iPads suck at displaying some pdfs.

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:36:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Oh?

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:37:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

the eurex exam material

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for BARISTAS! <geofft>

can I download those?

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:38:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

https://deutsche-boerse.com/cma/dispatch/en/binary/gdb_content_pool/imported_files/public_files/10_downloads/15_cma/25_Eurex_Haendler/Eurex_Trader_Exam_FAQ.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:39:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

that is ... a long url

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:40:12 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

www.1ts.org/~kcr/eurex.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:40:20 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Geoff, this isn't my fault, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:40:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PANDAS! <geofft>

That I have an iPad? No...

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:41:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Anyway, pondering "enfield"

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:41:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

good.  Also, this looks fine on my ipad.

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:42:39 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Schrödinger put his cat in the box because it was CREEPING HIM OUT. <eichin>

looks fine in goodreader, too, or at least the
same as it does in evince

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 16:44:53 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

so: "Weird."

Class: geofft Instance: hardware
Time: Fri May 25 17:06:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Wait, why would it be your fault?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:32:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_lobsters_and_crayfish

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:33:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I can't believe they have this but they deleted my
Category:Toroidal_foods

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:33:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Aw.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:35:03 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Liz Fong-Jones <lizfong>

wikipedia categories remind me of ye olde webrings of 2001.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:35:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Webrings! I miss those things

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 17:36:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

my GeoCities page was totally a member of a webring!

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:14:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Exciting, as I suspected, the "Camera Connection Kit" dock<->USB
adapter is secretly a generic USB adapter

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:15:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

If you plug in a keyboard, it goes "this USB device is not supported",
and proceeds to support it

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:15:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I do want, like, a dock hub, though. (so I can also connect it to
Xcode)

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 18:17:12 2012 Host: LUSTRE.MIT.EDU
From: Luke W Faraone <lfaraone>

htns: I can't find any logs for a Category:Toroidal_foods

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri May 25 18:19:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Well, they violate US Patent 4,778,686, so that's unsurprising.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:58:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Whoa, Square's released a handful of SNES-era games?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:58:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

"I thought those were abandonware"

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 18:59:03 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Natalie Imbruglia – Smoke
 <rnjacobs>

......

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:00:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for PANDAS! <geofft>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:01:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

There are various comments saying the ports aren't all that well done,
sadly.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:02:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Natalie Imbruglia – Smoke
 <rnjacobs>

Are these the funny 2.5d things they released for the DS remakes?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:02:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

I don't think so?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:03:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Natalie Imbruglia – Pigeons And Crumbs
 <rnjacobs>

Or the dubious refreshes for the PS1 where they put in obnoxious cutscenes?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:06:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for MODELS! <geofft>

See the screenshots
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chrono-trigger/id479431697?mt=8

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:08:21 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Natalie Imbruglia – Don't You Think?
 <rnjacobs>

Looks like it's the PS1 remake given the size, with a terrible choice of font
when they ported the UI.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 19:09:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PETS! <geofft>

Also given the Bird Studio copyright.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:05:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Is iSSH the standard recommendation?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:05:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

i,i or do I want Diet Coda

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:11:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Woaaahhh, someone's selling serial adapters

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:11:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

http://www.get-console.com/shop/en/cables/10-cisco-console-companion-cable-for-iphone-ipad-and-ipod-touch-rj45.html

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:13:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Careful, that only works with one terminal emulator app, and it kinda
sucks

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri May 25 20:13:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

They're quite explicit about the fact that they only implement the
subset of vt100 that Cisco devices use

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 00:29:39 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

Prompt has been higher performance and more reliable for me, but iSSH
has the VNC cient.  I have both installed, but I'm using Prompt for
this.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 02:12:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

And X and RDP...

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 02:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Hm, iSSH + keyboard does not work quite as well as I'd have expected

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 02:54:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

It's not really excited about recognizing, like, PgUp/PgDown

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 02:55:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

and it likes to drop control characters

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 02:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for FARMERS! <geofft>

It's also not doing a terribly wonderful job of using the retina
display.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 03:00:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I'm still impressed by the OS's reasonableness around plugging in an
external keyboard. I guess it does this with Bluetooth keyboards
anyway

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sat May 26 09:55:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

supposedly Prompt does better than iSSH with bluetooth keyboards

Class: geofft Instance: crypto
Time: Sat May 26 15:22:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Does the concept of a "cryptographic service provider" exist outside
Java and Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Sat May 26 16:35:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PETS! <geofft>

There is a disappointing lack of Jean Sibelius techno remixes

Class: geofft Instance: youtube
Time: Sat May 26 16:35:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for FARMERS! <geofft>

and I don't think I know enough to be able to fix this myself.

Class: geofft Instance: youtube.d
Time: Sat May 26 16:37:00 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

For a bit there I thought you were talking about Eurovision.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:02:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for THE ARMY! <geofft>

I should really get my actual mail on a non-MIT inbox

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:02:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Also my actual calendar on non-Google

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:02:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I can understand the former, but why the latter?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:03:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Ideological objection to anything in any way Google-affiliated;
control; features

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:04:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

"What would you use instead"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat May 26 18:04:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I dunno. keithp is allegedly hacking on something.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun May 27 00:42:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PILOTS! <geofft>

Can't seem to get the X server to work...

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun May 27 00:43:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Oh wait, I am, like, actually competent enough to debug this instead
of just whining

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 12:17:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

okay why is there a mariachi band playing outside my front door

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 12:18:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

and has been playing since like 8:30

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 12:18:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for BEER! <geofft>

... is that a hipster band? are there two bands now? what did I do to
deserve this

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 12:21:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Don't you know, it's a live-action re-enactment of RANGO
for Liz's alarm-clock purposes.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 12:24:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-OOfW6wWyQ

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 16:30:56 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Did you go out and ask?  I am also curious why a mariachi band (or two!)
would spend 45 minutes on a quiet residential stretch of Bryant St.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sun May 27 16:31:51 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If they just walked past, that I would get.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:16:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Oh right, I should tell the sales engineer I'm not explaining "I can't
do this" to a customer at 10 AM on Tuesday because that's too early

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:17:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I should... tell the sales engineers that I'm busy and have better
things to do for like all of the n outstanding requests

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah crap, you reminded me that I have to talk to a customer with an
enterprise technologist on Wednesday

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:22:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

that sounds like the worst title ever

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:22:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

tell me about it

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:23:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Anyway the customers right now are all "wahh can you do this thing
that will take six months of geofft time" and so the answer is no, I
have other things to do in the next six months

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:27:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Why is it that you're the one who would be doing it?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:28:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

"because we're hiring"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:29:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

we basically don't have other people with the necessary Linux skillset
to pull this off, and to the extent we have smart people with half the
skillset, they're committed to other things

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon May 28 00:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf:ttants
Time: Mon May 28 01:03:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Home Box Office
telecommuting with the help of Box.com

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:47:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

having trouble breathing causes trouble with lots of things

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:47:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

like breathing

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:53:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for FARMERS! <geofft>

Why is San Francisco so big?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I miss living in small towns, like Boston

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:56:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

In seriousness, the diameter of the city is like three hours by foot
(according to Google)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 01:56:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

and like one hour by public transit

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 02:08:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

SF is 7 miles across, which doesn't sound like that much, but then I
realized it's the distance from Jamaica Plain to Medford or so

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon May 28 02:31:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

yay
http://www.caltrain.com/about/news/Caltrain_to_Hold_Meeting_About_Proposal_to_Add_6_Trains__Adjust_Service.html

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon May 28 02:32:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Relevantly to me, a proposal to add a 9:30 AM express-ish train
(currently the trains between 9 AM and like 3 PM are hourly and all
all-stops, which makes life annoying on the days I fail to get up
early)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 02:44:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Despite taking a nap earlier, -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 04:20:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Can't sleep. Surely pseudephedrine will help

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 04:58:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

(answer: no, obviously)

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:00:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

the number of MIT people I've seen with sleep issues makes me confused
that there isn't a lot of interest in throwing technical solution
(well, anything better than O(melatonin)) at the problem

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:02:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

you would think someone would have, like, invented something to let
you sleep 4 hours a night and wake up well-rested

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:03:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

or that there would be tons of people on polyphasic sleep schedles or
something

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:03:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

anyway, I've decided I want time-release caffeine pills.

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:06:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I am *very* interested in throwing technical solutions at this
problem.  The DEA gets in my fucking way though.

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:21:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

I hear you can have a boat off the San Francisco coast and show up in
the city every day and US jurisdiction doesn't apply to you

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 05:21:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

If it works for visas...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:22:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Sigh, why does pseudoephedrine make me incredibly fidgety

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:22:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

(such that I'm shaking out my hands/feet while lying in bed)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:23:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I used to be able to take it in public and it was fine. I kind of
regularly used it on xprod retreats because the house is full of
allergens and I needed to be able to sing

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:37:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"because it's ephedrine.  well, pseudo-ephedrine."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:39:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(you may be more familiar with the name of the first synthetic
approximation to ephedrine -- it was called (eventually) `amphetamine')

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon May 28 05:40:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I like that with enough definitions, you can parse the word "sudafed"
and read "ok, yes, of course that keeps me up".

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 14:52:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You can buy an alarm clock that wakes you up in a specific sleep
phase.  That's a technical solution

Class: geofft Instance: status.elses
Time: Mon May 28 14:52:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There aren't more people on polyphasic sleep schedules because they're
usually difficult and unpleasant to pull off

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:15:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

"I feel like pedobear gets a bad name from all the people who aren't
pedobears"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Oh, apparently "are", not "aren't"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:16:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

"Pedobear himself is a cute unassuming bear"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:17:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

dammit geofft

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:18:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:19:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

"Isn't there a pedobear graphic that is a cute unassuming bear that
could hang out with Waverly except that I wouldn't let it"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:19:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Liz in response to
http://culturewedge.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/pedobear_13.jpg
"That's adorable"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:20:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FARMERS! <geofft>

"It's actually less cute in person"

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q
Time: Mon May 28 17:20:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

it looked cuter as a thumbnail
fu size i retract my comment

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys.q.d
Time: Mon May 28 17:21:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Wait, this looks awesome.
http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/wallpaper/pedobear_box_desktop_2979x2354_wallpaper-288214.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: n-c/prnf
Time: Mon May 28 17:46:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

I actually have no idea how I'm going to deal with parenting. "Can I
just plan to never have kids"

Class: geofft Instance: anneh
Time: Mon May 28 21:54:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

yeah yeah I'll finish thesing at some point

Class: geofft Instance: anneh
Time: Mon May 28 21:55:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

She's probably heard that many times before...

Class: geofft Instance: anneh
Time: Mon May 28 21:56:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Basically, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 22:42:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

I'm amazed that USB over the Internet works
(over VMware VSphere Web Client at the moment, which plays with
vmware-usbarbitrator somehow)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon May 28 22:42:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

How well can that possibly work?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May 29 04:29:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for PILOTS! <geofft>

How/where does MIT do mail dedup (on message-id)?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue May 29 04:32:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

It seems to be working fine on my inbox, except for mail for non-MIT
domains hosted on scripts (and forwarding)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 05:54:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I .... suspect my clever plan to not have -c debathena in my default
view is not as clever as I hoped

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 05:55:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

because I just feel guilty and stark, instead of just not caring

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 05:55:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

"which mostly works for scripts"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May 29 07:20:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for FARMERS! <geofft>

Oops, this weekend would plausibly have been wonderful for trying the
Getting Things Done thing again.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue May 29 07:21:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

"except that if I could determine things like that on my own, I
wouldn't be needing a book to do it for me"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 11:48:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because Scripts has more active maintainers, maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 12:47:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

You guys are sufficiently active that it takes too much effort to keep
up.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 12:50:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's only like, 3x more zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue May 29 13:36:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Stripe uses daemontools!??????

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue May 29 13:36:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Next you'll tell me they use qmail

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue May 29 13:38:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Didn't they originally run on FreeBSD?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue May 29 13:38:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Did they? I didn't want to know that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 29 14:36:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

*sigh* customers, why do they exist

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 29 14:36:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: choose death <kcr>

See, if you'd stayed in academia...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 29 14:37:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Meh, customers are a lot more direct about what they want than, like,
reviewers

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May 29 16:15:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Debian continues to be a grand experiment in just how much you can
apply geek social fallacies and still end up with quality software.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May 29 16:16:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

It works surprisingly well! But still.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May 29 16:17:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>quality software

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue May 29 16:17:33 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

er, *inigo_montoya.jpg*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue May 29 18:13:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Wait why stop assigning tickets to me wahhhhh.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 18:57:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

okay, less trolling keithw, moar coding

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Tue May 29 20:00:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Hrm. I kind of want a website that provides the same sort of "my brain
wants something that will amuse it in five-second chunks" that
O(reddit or hacker news) provides, except that it provides, like, a
to-do list.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Tue May 29 20:00:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

The problem with an actual to-do list is that it's static, though.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Tue May 29 20:07:11 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm.  To-do items tend to require more than five seconds.

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Tue May 29 20:09:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

I think I mostly care about the distraction factor than it being
short....

Maybe I should play with a Trac report of all tickets I might
plausibly care about, in random order?

Class: geofft Instance: focus
Time: Tue May 29 20:57:23 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Worth trying.  Sounds like a form of constructive procrastination.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue May 29 22:13:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Mmm, bright sun and clear blue skies.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue May 29 22:14:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of two tectonic plates
slipping by each other.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue May 29 22:16:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Hey, that's not my fault

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Tue May 29 22:18:11 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

--

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:48:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

okay, less trolling davidben, moar coding

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:48:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't give him more ideas, man.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:48:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But node.js is badass rockstar technology!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:48:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

The great thing about davidben is that if you leave him alone long
enough, he just starts trolling himself.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:48:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I'll leave it at BPAPI and go away.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue May 29 22:49:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

That sounds leaky.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:30:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Wait, have I only eaten one meal today?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Blah I have an iPad on the table and Xcode open and
developer.apple.com in my browser, I am writing this stupid app to
remind me to eat darnit.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:39:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

"There is already an app for that"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:43:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Do you have recommendations?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:44:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Although it'd be a worthwhile exercise regardless.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:45:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

Set alarms and/or ical?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:46:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Too much effort, doesn't really scale for "oh look I noticed you
purchased food with your credit card", timing isn't particularly
flexible with scheduled events (although I could try a to-do list

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:47:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Are you pokébreeding Lincoln with Amy Winehouse?" - geofft <pbaranay>

You want to tie your food-reminder app into something like Mint?
That's...novel, at least.

Or did you have a different way of having it notice you bought food on
your card?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:47:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You...just said it's too hard to eat at a regular time, so you're
going to _write an app_ that watched your credit card to remind you to
eat?!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Alex I have weird problems have you met me this should not be
surprising.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:48:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for PANDAS! <geofft>

I could just set up Mint, I guess? I feel like screen-scraping the
normal website my credit card gives me is fine.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue May 29 23:48:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I mean, I know, but it seems more worthwhile for you to _fix your
dietary problems_.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:06:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Smith & Wesson... the original point and click interface <eichin>

automating "keep an eye on me" stuff is a pretty common geek trope :-)
the generalization of this is the "quantified self" movement...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:07:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Programming computers is easy. Programming humans is hard.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:09:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Programming humans is pretty easy, it's just very different

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:09:59 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But isn't it nice to know your error messages are functioning properly? <eichin>

I'd phrase it as "brains suck at boring stuff" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:10:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Once someone, in response to me talking about /etc/hosts asked,
"uh, do you know how self control works?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:10:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "truth is not kind" ... and she said, "neither am I"... <eichin>

"badly" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:14:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Can you hire a secretary or manservant or whatever this type of thing
is actually called in
not-exceedingly-patriarchal-land-of-50-years-ago?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:14:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"personal assistant"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:15:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Cruft is a state of mind." - xavid <pbaranay>

"Siri"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 00:15:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: now these points of data make a beautiful line <eichin>

some overlap with housekeeper

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:21:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Hacker News believes the term is "virtual assistant", but also that
all the competent ones are Filipino and therefore not on your sleep
schedule.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:22:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

(I'm not actually sure whether to be offended at that article or not.
I _think_ the answer is no, but the fact that this is a question
bothers me.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:24:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Geoff, have you tried going for a run lately?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:27:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

No, not actually. One of these days I should unlame and decide that
biking to work does not actually count as putting sufficient effort
into exercise (only as putting _part_ of sufficient effort).

But that would involve being responsible, which has the causality
backwards from the point I assume you're trying to make.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

How far is your commute?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:29:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

No, the point I'm actually making is that there is a giant spider
behind you right now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:30:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Coolidge Corner. The destination of this train is: Cleveland Circle. <stum>

isn't this why people have secretaries
"have you asked at work?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:54:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

quentin: 20 minutes + train + 10 minutes, each way

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:54:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Thats pretty good.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 01:55:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

It is, and it's fun

Class: geofft Instance: pro-tip
Time: Wed May 30 02:24:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for BEER! <geofft>

tie your shoelaces

Class: geofft Instance: lyrics
Time: Wed May 30 02:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Stars looking at a planet, watching entropy and pain
And maybe to start to wonder how the chaos in our lives could pass as sane
...
When I look at the stars, the stars
I feel like myself.

Class: geofft Instance: internets
Time: Wed May 30 11:25:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

http://matt.might.net/articles/my-sons-killer/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:53:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

You could get an insulin meter that has wifi and connect it to a
zephyrbot which monitors your glucose level and if there has not
been a spike by 11am, reminds you to eat breakfast.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

er, I've confused what an insulin meter actually does, 
but you get the idea.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:54:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> insulin...wifi...zephyr

I never want to see those three words in the same sentence again.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:54:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

ITYM glucose meter?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:57:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

How much do those cost anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed May 30 11:57:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Well, you'd need one that is active and constantly monitoring, so I
imagine a lot. If you just want to check your blood sugar, you can get
one for 20-50 at your local pharmacy.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 30 13:13:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

wait, did you ask me a technical question about hardware support and
Cc it to all@? wat?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 30 13:14:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"people do that on itpartners all the time"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 30 13:14:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

... but that's itpartners, not... all.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 30 13:15:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

should I... reply-all?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed May 30 13:20:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Aha, someone more senior than me changed the Cc, thank you

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Wed May 30 13:38:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Also to all@:

"You know this means wearing more pants!!!!"

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:39:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for BEER! <geofft>

Okay, what is going on with Bing.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:39:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

"No results for 'minako'"

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:43:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:44:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It works for me. Screenshot?

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:50:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/tmp/1.png

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:51:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Oh, this is even better. Search for "Debian":
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/2.png

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:52:22 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

...

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:53:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

Haaaah. You should submit that to thedailywtf

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:53:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

unmix, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:54:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: William Drabbington <nelhage>

Microsoft, sometimes it is so hard to take you seriously.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I mean, I realize competing with Google is hard, but... it's not
_that_ hard

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:55:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Yahoo! has results for Debian, but not for... "browse"

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 13:55:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

We did not find results for: browse. Try the suggestions below or type
a new query above.
Did you mean: browser

Suggestions:

    Check your spelling.
    Try more general words.
    Try different words that mean the same thing.
    Try asking a question on Yahoo! Answers

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 30 14:11:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

:-Ł

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 30 14:12:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that everyone knows why Medusa stands alone in the dark.
 <rnjacobs>

A snake.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 30 14:12:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

:-⏚

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 30 14:13:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

i.e., "I am unenthused, also I only got around to shaving half my face
this morning"

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 14:13:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Wait, are you doing something weird to Bing?  I get 52 million results
for debian on a normal web search

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 14:13:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Not particularly...

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 14:14:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I tried turning off safesearch.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Wed May 30 14:14:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

But only after the initial result. Also Yahoo was doing things, and
IIRC Yahoo is fed by Bing in some way? So it may have been transient.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed May 30 14:15:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Oooh. :-☡

Class: geofft Instance: debathena Opcode: avril-lavigne
Time: Wed May 30 14:26:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Why'd you have to go and make things reactivated?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May 30 14:35:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for AIRLINES! <geofft>

why is giggly-girls an NFS group?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May 30 14:36:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: But when he reached the Eleventh Commandment <kdrinkwa>

because NFS is /hilarious/.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May 30 14:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May 30 14:37:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: But she held him fast and feared him not <kdrinkwa>

(i,i)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed May 30 15:15:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Switch to cupt, ykywt

Class: geofft Instance: itunes
Time: Wed May 30 15:35:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Wait, do I either get the "back up to this computer" or "back up to
iCloud" option, and no "don't back up at all" one?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed May 30 20:01:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

... did I actually lose my phone?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 00:09:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Sigh. Confirmed that I did leave my phone in an Uber, and the driver's
not going to be in the city tonight :-(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 00:09:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for BEER! <geofft>

Current plan is to grab it from him in the morning

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 00:57:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for BEER! <geofft>

I am confused how speedtest.net advertises for Chrome

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 00:57:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Specifically on the pretense that downloading Chrome will make your
results better.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 01:03:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

EmotiCon: The world's biggest convention for :-(s, :-)s, and everyone
in between

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu May 31 01:13:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Ran out of Internet, don't really feel like thesing or doing work or
doing not-work. -> reading / sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 01:22:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Back of the Hill. The destination of this train is: Lechmere. <stum>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 11:17:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for PILOTS! <geofft>

cell phone reacquires yay

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 11:18:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"How did it lose its yay in the first place?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal Opcode: stars
Time: Thu May 31 11:18:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

also 23 but how could tnat be?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:35:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for PETS! <geofft>

getting the non-cell-network iPad was the wrong answer.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:35:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Return it while you have the chance?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:35:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

excahnge it?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:35:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

MiFi

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:35:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

ooh, jon wins

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I guess it would have cost me a much as getting a mifi,,  which is
more useful

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

==jdreed

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Except now you have 2 devices to remember to charge.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

This is precisely what we did in FSX.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

cellphone that does wifi tethering is even more useful.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 13:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for MODELS! <geofft>

Virgin even has them, though I could get the Verizon one for
diversification reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.bad-ideas
Time: Thu May 31 13:37:21 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The iPad can put out 500mA via the dock port.  Charge your MiFi from
your iPad!

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.d
Time: Thu May 31 14:03:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

I take it "monoceros" is the name of your iPad?
How did you decide on that name?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.d
Time: Thu May 31 16:46:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Interesting-sounding European mythical creatures

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 16:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

glasgall: Yes, but I like my current cell phone/plan

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.bad-ideas
Time: Thu May 31 16:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for AIRLINES! <geofft>

*plugs in USB keyboard light*
... whoa, so it does.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.bad-ideas
Time: Thu May 31 16:49:01 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You're not ... actually going to do that, are you?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Thu May 31 16:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for PANDAS! <geofft>

Specifically, Virgin's only officially-supported tethering option
involves a phone model I don't want, and non-officially-supported
tethering sounds like a pain

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.bad-ideas
Time: Thu May 31 16:49:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros.bad-ideas
Time: Thu May 31 16:49:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"It'll solve your connectivity problem, in that you won't have enough
battery power to actually use your iPad"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 17:17:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I think I just hurt my finger on a monitor??? How does that happen???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 17:18:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

was it a lizard?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 17:18:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

No, merely a Dell

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu May 31 17:20:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

My apologies.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu May 31 17:51:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

wat, did I miss hilarious HURD drama?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu May 31 17:51:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Always.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu May 31 17:51:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Is there any other kind?

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Thu May 31 19:00:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Oh right, this website exists

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 19:13:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

com.sesameworkshop.PottyTimeElmo

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 19:14:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Also, really, com.getdropbox.Dropbox? Not com.dropbox.something?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 19:15:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Was that their first domain name?  Like "thefacebook.com"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 19:19:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:11:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

That wasn't supposed to work...

okay, good, it didn't work. Hrm

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:23:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

*Probably* should not troll my company by encouraging them to use
qmail

Class: geofft Instance: mail.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 20:24:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Benjamin Kadert

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:24:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: mail.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 20:24:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ben "DUK"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:25:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Yeah, they might actually *do* it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:26:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Fortunately it's not packaged for Debian

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:26:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Huh, Policy issues?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 20:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

"The Technical Committee believes that anyone who might want to use
qmail is a threat to the Internet" issues, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: mail.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 20:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for PANDAS! <geofft>

Also, \exists LIST:asa-ehnerts now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 21:08:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) Yes, getdropbox.com was their first domain name. Someone
already owned dropbox.com; they bought it off them once they had
customers and money.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 22:34:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

qmail is totally packed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu May 31 22:34:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

*packaged
See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=510415#386 
and http://packages.debian.org/sid/qmail

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Thu May 31 23:23:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FARMERS! <geofft>

From: Rihana Warlord <rihana01658@msn.com>

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Thu May 31 23:24:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

i,i We found bombs in a hostile place, we found bombs in a hostile place

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 23:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

i,i "the Dollhouse approach to security"

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Thu May 31 23:43:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

(back up your machine, wipe it, install something new on it, wipe it
when you're done, restore the backup)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun  1 02:48:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Pretty sure the only good thing about the Bay Area is the network
effects

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 03:10:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for BEER! <geofft>

why am I not asleep yet?

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Fri Jun  1 03:19:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

How is everything so cheap here?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun  1 03:27:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for BEER! <geofft>

Oh right, I should figure out how to hold semi-regular social-ish
events at my apartment...

This might get easier if I get better at leaving work somewhat early,
since weekends are short and contended. I guess I can pretty easily
arrange to do that one day a week (or every two weeks, or whatever).

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Fri Jun  1 08:48:14 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

monoprice's email newsletters are kind of amusing, because after a
few bigger-ticket items they'll advertise some discounts on specific
connectors or cables which are already stupidly cheap.  I always
imagine someone thinking, "Oh, man, I've always wanted a six-foot
RCA-to-RCA male cable, and now that it's $1.49 instead of $1.79 I can
have one!"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun  1 13:53:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Hey, I just chase whales
And that is crazy
But here's my novel
So call me Ishmael

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:14:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for HUNTERS! <geofft>

argh, missed caltrain by one minute thanks to incompetent Uber driver

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:15:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you only had a minute for margin of error, you were going to miss
it anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:15:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for COUGARS! <geofft>

"you want me to take you to 22nd street? ok I'll just drive there and
go over potrero hill"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:15:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for HUNTERS! <geofft>

"clearly this discontinuous road is the correct route"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:16:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

glasgall: I had more, but I spent that margin of error finding my
keys. So I guess I ought to blame myself

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:17:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

But yeah, lesson 1, tell drivers where you're going, you know it
better than them. lesson 2, get around to fixing your bike

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:17:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Biking in SF sounds like pretty viciously punishing your legs.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:17:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

it sounds kinda fun, actually

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:23:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

It depends on where you live

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:24:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

my apartment to the main Caltrain station (although the farther one)
is basically flat.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:36:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: May reduce the risk of heart disease <yoz>

Yeah, all the cool kids live in flat parts of the city.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:37:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"it has flat parts?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:37:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I can confirm that the cool kids live in flat parts of the city

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:50:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Woah, NYTimes article confirming Bush and Obama were responsible for
Stuxnet

Class: geofft Instance: security
Time: Fri Jun  1 14:52:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

The top comments on the Times are adamant that the U.S. should stop
being hacking buddies with Israel.

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:00:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Why is /b/ in the Times?

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:00:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

*snerk

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:00:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

We live in a strange world.

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:03:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

"It thrived on sex and gore. But it popularized the idea of matching
funny captions with cute cat photos too."

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:04:05 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Never leave a lock picked <yoz>

I heartily recommend https://twitter.com/#!/nytonit

Class: geofft Instance: security.d
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:16:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Pretty selective!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jun  1 15:46:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Oh huh, I'm not on IRC

Class: geofft Instance: poster.q
Time: Fri Jun  1 16:11:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Stanford School of Medicine

Feeling anxious and depressed?
Find out if computer games can improve your well-being and
concentration!

Class: geofft Instance: poster.q
Time: Fri Jun  1 16:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Dear Stanford: stop trolling

Class: geofft Instance: poster.q
Time: Fri Jun  1 16:30:22 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Exposure may cause skin irritation or lung damage <yoz>

I wonder if "anxious" is one of those catch-alls for everybody who's a
student, kind of like those studies that posted at MIT recruiting
people with sleep deprivation problems.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.prnf
Time: Fri Jun  1 16:46:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

watsoever

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:05:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:29:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:29:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

why is there a postit at my desk with a trac ticket number on it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:29:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

because you said 'wut' 25 minutes ago.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:30:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a trap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:30:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

well, apparently the sales engineers are all like "zomg must close
deals in Q2"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:30:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PILOTS! <geofft>

no Mach-O hacking for me today :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:36:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mach-O?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:37:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Mach object file format

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jun  1 17:58:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

mplayer -af karaoke Owl City makes excellent coding music, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Fri Jun  1 18:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for FARMERS! <geofft>

// XXX: TODO: profile and understand performance

Class: geofft Instance: groklaw.q
Time: Fri Jun  1 20:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

> First, Google's statement:
> 
>     The court’s decision upholds the principle that open and
> interoperable computer languages form an essential basis for
> software development. It’s a good day for collaboration and
> innovation.
> 
> And Oracle's:
> 
> Waaah. We hired the same law firm as SCO Group and tried the same
> strategy and yet we lost. How could *that* ever happen? No fair.
> We'll appeal! Just like SCO. 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun  1 21:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Hrm. Jonathan Coulton is in SF on June 20.
http://www.gamhtickets.com/events/196455/

Class: geofft Instance: distracted
Time: Fri Jun  1 22:40:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Reading the AMD64 ABI (from x86-64.org). This is ... slightly
inscrutable. I don't think it's complicated at all, but the writing
isn't that great.

Class: geofft Instance: distracted
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:04:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's only nasty when it comes to how varargs work.

Class: geofft Instance: distracted
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:04:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(cf. nelhage's blog post on the subject)

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:18:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Oh right, the Cygwin DLL is GPL'd.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:18:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

That seems... pretty annoying. Like how do you make a Cygwin program
with OpenSSL?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:19:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's...GPL'd? Not LGPL'd?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:19:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Cygwin™ Open Source Licensing Exception

As a special exception to GPLv3+, Red Hat grants you permission to
link software whose sources are distributed under a license that
satisfies the Open Source Definition with libcygwin.a, without
libcygwin.a itself causing the resulting program to be covered by
GPLv3+.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:21:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Also, woah, there's a Gentoo port to Interix?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:21:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

That is the most amazing thing I have seen in a while. I wonder if it
works.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:21:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

And apparently you can buy a proprietary license to cygwin

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:22:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Well, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:22:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> Gentoo port to Interix

...

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:22:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

How is this not the best thing

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:22:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You use that word "best" a lot. I do not think it means what you think
it does.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:22:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Also, oooh
http://www.debian-interix.net/

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:23:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

stop hitting yourself

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:24:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:25:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkc5wSCWeVg

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:27:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

And we're suipposed to be impressed?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:31:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

a mingw 

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:31:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

er.  A mingw port would be way better than interix.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:32:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's simply a matter of freedom of pleasure, a right which is *not* guaranteed by the Constitution... <eichin>

 we only wrote cygwin so we could run embedded-target gcc on a windows
 host, without getting too much windows on us.  I don't remember
 offhand a strong reason for the license choice, though there was still
 competition in that space then...

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:35:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Oh hey, eichin, you may actually know the answer to this question,
Google doesn't seem to. Why do you have your own fork implementation
instead of using the same syscall SUA/Interix does?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:36:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It is a sad reflection that we know better the temperature inside the stars than
inside a soufflé <eichin>

The obvious guess: it was 1995 and NT didn't have that yet?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Sure. Why does Cygwin still use its own implementation now that such a
syscall exists and has existed for a while?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:37:26 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's All the Galaxy's Spaceships) <eichin>

 I lost track of the internals after the crazy russian guys
 implemented ptys (so that they could run xterm)

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:37:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:38:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Oh hey, this does actually answer my question, I think.

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.cython.devel/8660/focus=8729

"CreateProcess in Win32 API and fork in Interix (SUA/SFU) both call
the kernel function ZwCreateProcess in ntdll.dll. If NULL is passed
as section handle to ZwCreateProcess, it will clone the current
process. [...]

"Cygwin's problem is that hooking up a process created by
ZwCreateProcess to the Win32 or SUA subsystem is undocumented;
neither MS documentation or Nebbet cover that. That is why Cygwin
does not implement a copy-on-write fork yet, although most modern
hardware supports it."

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:38:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Right, subsystems are implemented in userspace.

Although then there's the question of "Why isn't Cygwin a subsystem?"

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:39:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Probably because there's other crap to deal with then?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:40:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, Cygwin runs on win9x too, and win32c (win9x) doesn't have
subsystems, right?

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Fine. "Why hasn't someone written a subsystem more competent than SUA
and more maintained and open source and thereby available on
non-Ultimate/Enterprise editions too"

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:43:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because anyone that cares can get a copy of Enterprise/Ultimate
(although I thought Professional was sufficient?)

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:43:59 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

This probably goes back to "there aren't actually all that many open
source programmers interested in working with Windows."

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:44:32 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Which is why you frequently get the situation where a piece of OSS has
a crappy Windows port which 90% of their users use.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for COUGARS! <geofft>

Fair enough.

Class: geofft Instance: actually-totally-unrelated-to-anything-on-this-class-or-to-work
Time: Fri Jun  1 23:55:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them? <eichin>

  I'm not sure I even remember why *I* was working on it.  I think it
  related to the embedded kerberos stuff we were doing for NASA that
  ended up needing to be windows hosted for some reason, so I ended up
  picking up some of the cygwin bugs/missing functions along the way.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:41:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Well, I have now read the SysV x86, SysV x86-64, and OS X (those two
arches plus PPC and PPC64) ABIs.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:41:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

I'm sure that was useful somehow

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:42:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Now read about thread local storage!!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:43:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Apparently OS X is just about completely ABI-compatible on x86-64 with
SysV (where by "SysV" we mean "Linux, and maybe *BSD"), which is kinda
cool.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:44:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Not particularly useful given the different binary formats, but hey.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 02:45:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

.... hrm. I wonder if you can write a binfmt_macho and then have a
Darwin foreign arch installed....

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:05:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Surely you can translate either on the fly or as a sep. step...right.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:09:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You need more than a binfmt module, since you need to interpret a
different syscall convention; you want something more along the lines
of binfmt_misc+qemu.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:10:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

No, not really. ABI-comformant apps _should_ be maling syscalls
through libc.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:12:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

The x86-64 ABI dpes specify a syscall interface; the x86 one doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:12:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

But I'd expect x86-64 apps to use the libc anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:13:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> The x86-64 ABI dpes specify a syscall interface

The one in section A.2 AMD64 Linux Kernel Conventions (“The section
is informative only.”)?  Skeptical face.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:14:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Besides, your program interpreter can always just trap the SIGSEGV
from calling an interrupt with no handler. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  2 03:15:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Oh right, that was non-normative. Anywau, the point still stands that
user programs shouldn't be making syscalls directly

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Wait, why do we care? (let alone why do we care in the negative?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:39:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:40:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Is this not merely increasing the number of RLAs? My experience is
that having Jed live in my dorm was cool ...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:45:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Allegedly, it's changing their roles.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:46:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I, uh, am possibly less inclined to immediately oppose change than
many students. Also, I don't actually live in a dorm...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Having lived in a dorm, I found it convenient that my GRT and RLA were
accessible, and that my RLA lived in the same dorm as me. My
housemaster always felt inaccessible (even when it was Muriel, not
Colombo).

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:55:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

And my RLA wad basically the only "administration"-type that was
accessible to me at all. Having more of these people in a role where
they have to interact with students seems useful, or at worst neutral.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:56:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My housemasters were (are!) accessible to me...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:57:27 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The Missing Number <phurst>

The grumbling I've been hearing is that it'll lead to clamping down on
dorm culture and individuality. Not sure how accurate it is.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:57:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PANDAS! <geofft>

afaict, any change in their role from this letter makes them better at
being RLAs, and I always felt the existence of an RLA position was
good.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:58:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

That's... the opposite of true, when _each dorm_ gets an individual
RLA(D).

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:58:36 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: Inscribable Object <phurst>

EC doesn't get one. Random doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:59:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

That's a little weird. You should ask for two more.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

But then, EC and Random seem to have the best housemasters in the
system.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 17:59:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for PETS! <geofft>

So maybe you don't need an RLA.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:00:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And I rolled her in my arms, me boys, and wouldn't you do too? <kdrinkwa>

Also, Geoff, htat's not necessarily true. Suppose the Senior House
RLAD starts aggressively drug policing. That would trivially be a
clamping down of dorm culture / uniqueness, even if that RLAD never
paid attention to any other dorm.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:00:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Beaconsfield. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

i don't think you get to use "culture" as an excuse for "breaking the
law"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:00:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The destination of this train is: Park Street. <stum>

it doesn't work with hazing.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:00:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for MODELS! <geofft>

Well, fine. Suppose the SH housemaster or GRT does, too.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:00:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: If you could have married the Queen's daughter, I'm sure you'd have better been <kdrinkwa>

Bad example, but my point stands.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:01:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

==stum also, but that's a less interesting/philosphical objection.
There are plenty of legal but sketchy things that define culture

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:02:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

And plenty of illegal things that we actively want to continue
(unlike drugs), like hacking.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:03:12 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: The Missing Number <phurst>

==. For example, 4W was upset when the Wood bathroom was de-graffitid.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:04:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Possibly the valid objection here is that not enough students are in
the hiring process for RLADs when they are for GRTs and Housemasters

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:04:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm disappointed that the drug culture in my former house has disappeared.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:04:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Rise up, rise up, brother Lazarus, and come along with me <kdrinkwa>

Also the lack of advance warning / consultation of students and
faculty, which is annoying even if the thing they were doing was
unequivocally good.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:05:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

But that's a systemic problem. As far as I can tell the complaining is
"this is a bad thing", not "this is a neutral thing decided badly"

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:06:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for COUGARS! <geofft>

also it's not the sort of change that seems big enough to bother
consulting students on...?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:07:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I totally support fixing the systemic problems of lack of student
involvement in decisions that affect them. But this seems like an odd
battleground

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:08:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Shady Grove, my little love, bound for the Shady Grove <kdrinkwa>

I don't mean having a campuswide referendum on whether the change
should be made, but kasittig mentioned earlier that CSL was not
informed, which seems problematic.

> the complaining is "this is a bad thing"

This will basically always be true, unless the thing is something like
"free sunshine and rainbows".

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:09:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Okay, so is the consensus "students are whiny" then? I can buy that.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:09:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for BARISTAS! <geofft>

yeah, CSL not being consulted seems wrong

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:11:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

Announcing something right at the end of spring term and
not even involving the relevant facultry committee are both behaviors that
need to be responded to with negative stimuli.  Even if the something is
"give every student a pony"*.

* for sane values of pony

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:11:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I agree. That just wasn't obvious from the complaining.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:28:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, what'd I miss from being kicked off of cfs@?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:28:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nothing, AFAICT. It looks like everything went to other lists.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:29:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Anyone want to give me a link or the TL;DR?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:29:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Now, what you missed from not being on pika-social, senior-house, and
various other dorm lists...

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:29:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... is offset by what I gain from not being on them.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:30:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh, you could take my approach to senior-house and other dorm lists
--- filter it and only read it when I find out from other sources
that there's interesting traffic.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:31:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Anyway, there was this letter sent to housemasters
(http://imgur.com/a/oCW7k) that got forwarded with some
somewhat-inflamatory text, and now people are worrying a bunch.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:32:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I saw this on ua-council

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:33:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Also, jdreed, since you're pnlone and it's relevant to the question
you asked, can you remount starmine's homedir?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:33:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

*starnine

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:33:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

*online

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:34:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Remount?  What?  What did you do?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:34:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

starnine got deactivated

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:34:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, really?  How did I miss that.  Hold please

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:35:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Is this... not part of the reactivation process?

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:36:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It is.  Maybe the incremental broke?  Or maybe I suck?
Anyway, remounted in the RW

Class: geofft Instance: elses.housing
Time: Sat Jun  2 18:37:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

(same thing happened to a high school friend who went to RSI and is
now here for grad school, she could only log in on the Athena 9 Stata
quickstations since we never added temporary homedir support to
Debathena)

Class: geofft Instance: stuck.in.my.head
Time: Sat Jun  2 19:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi with all the lyrics replaced by "herp derp
herp serp, herp derp herp derp, herp derp herp hurr durr herp derp"

Class: geofft Instance: stuck.in.my.head
Time: Sat Jun  2 19:24:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

*derp
I hate my brain sometimes.

Class: geofft Instance: brogan
Time: Sun Jun  3 00:08:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

For some reason, "holy crap we are defending space" is not actually
that novel to me....

Class: geofft Instance: philosophy-humor
Time: Sun Jun  3 00:31:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

From the App Store's list of top free apps:

34. Swamp People
Games: Simulation

Class: geofft Instance: outside
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Huh, church bells playing hymns. I wonder where from

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:35:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

The libgit2 license
https://github.com/libgit2/libgit2/blob/development/COPYING
seems to have a sufficiently liberal linking exception as to permit
being distributed on the App Store. Why is there no git application,
then?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:35:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What would a git app do/

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:35:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I can't actually belive it's "no one cares" / "no one's gotten around
to it"

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:35:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What would you do with a -yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:35:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Let you edit files, make commits, push them when you're back on the
network.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:36:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Isn't it easier to install bochs or qemu or something and just run
Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:36:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

I'd rather not jailbreak mine because that means it stops acting like
my customers' iPads. Also, that sounds slow.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:37:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Is being able to edit code all that useful when you can't run it?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:38:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Well, I keep non-code things like todo lists in git because it's the
right answer for synchronizing between multiple laptops.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:39:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I thought the answer for that was dropbox"

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:39:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Does that come with an editor?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:39:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Ah. I think the closest thing to non-code things I keep in git is
LaTeX.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:39:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

git-in-dropbox sounds like a terrible idea.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:40:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(admittedly, it's better than the dropbox-as-a-vcs that lapentab
encountered recently)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:40:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Also, I don't really understand the nature of the
Turing-incompleteness requirement, and it's possible that, say, a
type checker would not be banned from the app store. And it would
still be productive to write outlines or review code or whatever and
actually make it work.

Also a local editor and viewer with native UI paradigms would be
nice, even if I'm pushing over 3G/4G fairly frequently and compiling
remotely. iSSH is somewhat suboptimal.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:41:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

(Clearly Mosh/GCM should exist.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:42:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I'm actually curious if 0x10c violates the Turing-incompleteness
requirement.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:44:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

0x10c?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:45:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

It's a video-game-y thing by the guy who wrote Minecraft, whose main
conceit involves programming this CPU (approximately equal in
complexity to the Beta) in order to do things.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:45:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

People have been porting ridiculous things to the DCPU-16.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:46:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SURGEONS! <geofft>

So the question is whether an 0x10c port to iOS counts as something
that allows you to download and run code because that's how you make
your spaceship go (the way that a, say, Python interpreter would be
prohibited)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:46:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Equal to the beta? So it's a MIPS instruction set.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:48:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

No, equal in complexity.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Also, approximately equal in complexity.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FARMERS! <geofft>

http://0x10c.com/doc/dcpu-16.txt

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:55:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is DCPU-16 the name of the relevant CPU?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 15:58:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Dead Parrot <nelhage>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:08:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why does the internet care so much about this thing, it looks kinda
shoddy.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:09:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

You know there's a python interpreter in the app store, right?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:09:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

(or at least there was last month)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:44:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

.... so there os

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:45:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

*is
I guess the hack is that you can't downloadcode to run in it?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:45:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

They care about this thing because it's by the Minecraft guy.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 16:45:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

(Minecraft has seen glowing reviews, e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap87xnjOh8E )

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 18:46:31 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

FWIW, I keep all my local git repositories in dropbox and
it's been fine.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Sun Jun  3 18:46:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

</stark>

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Jun  3 21:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Sigh. I should determine whether to keep doing this in Haskell or to
go back to Python ...

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Jun  3 21:43:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Also, past geofft, your todo lists are incredibly unhelpful

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Jun  3 21:43:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

> * figure out wtf is up with TCP (close behavior?)

what?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Jun  3 21:44:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I actually have zero idea what you mean

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Sun Jun  3 21:44:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

> * automatic boxing/unboxing, maybe

huh?

Class: geofft Instance: /r/atheism
Time: Sun Jun  3 22:16:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/9hKei.png

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 08:26:58 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Why is there no git application,
       then?

my plan is to put git capabilities in our AFS app, because i am nuts.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 08:27:17 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

and bochs on ipad? done it. slooooooow.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 08:48:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

One flaw in the ipad is there don't seem to be good
generic-cross-app-sharing APIs. So a lot of apps have
dropbox integration, but I don't think there is a way for a
git app to expose a generic "I'm a filesystem with remoting
capabilities" API and let other apps use it.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 08:55:46 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

the cross-sharing api that's most common is a third party one. uh.
i'll find it.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 08:58:06 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

sharekit

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 09:03:19 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

That's cool. I don't think I've seen any apps I use use
that API.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 09:04:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

This is what you get for designing a closed platform.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Mon Jun  4 09:08:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-10. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1. <tibbetts>

Certainly true. "Turns out you get other good things too".
The free for all that was the Android share dialog when I
used Android was also ungood.

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Mon Jun  4 16:20:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Order arrived! I now have ALL THE CABLES

Class: geofft Instance: nytimes.q
Time: Mon Jun  4 16:37:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

"When India and the United States consummated a landmark civilian
nuclear agreement in 2008, one sweetener was an agreement to allow
Indian mangoes to be imported, the 'nukes for mangoes' provision."

Class: geofft Instance: nytimes.q
Time: Mon Jun  4 19:24:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I remember this.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Jun  4 21:15:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Pandora, stop trolling me

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Mon Jun  4 21:18:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"At least it's not rickrolling you"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 22:27:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Awww, inflammatory email was not nearly as inflammatory as I hoped :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 22:30:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Your zsigproc hit a fixed point.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 22:31:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for MODELS! <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:06:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh SVN

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:07:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FARMERS! <geofft>

unrelatedly, PUPPY

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:09:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

.... it's 8 PM?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:09:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:26:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

graaaaaaargh. Maybe I will just spend the rest of the evening doing a
git conversion, that would be disturbingly productive for something so
unproductive

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:29:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Time to see the fairness / in all the children's games. / Time to
learn to stop, / and learn to do the same. / Time to make our minds
up, / if the world at last will be / Ally ally ally ally oxen free
 <rnjacobs>

Something being yak-shaving is not necessarily related to productive vs not.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun  4 23:35:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Or maybe I've just been typing debian/rules when I meant
debian/control?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:20:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

http://www.tuxera.com/news/tuxera-releases-gpl-compliant-fat32-replacement-package-for-android/

“Companies who have licensed FAT patents from Microsoft cannot use the
publicly available GPL-licensed VFAT implementation,” noted Mikko
Välimäki, Tuxera CEO and recognized open source legal expert. “If you
don’t license Microsoft patents, you risk a patent lawsuit. If you
license the patents, you need to also replace the GPL software in
Linux, or you risk a copyright lawsuit.”

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:34:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Oh dear, you seem to have gotten yourself killed.  I might be able to
help you out, but I've never really done this before.  Do you want me
to try to reincarnate you?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:55:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

can I upload myself to the cloud yet?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:55:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

I bet the cloud doesn't have allergies

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:55:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Sure, they're called airplanes.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:55:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

And allergies are spelled "viruses"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:56:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

ugh, I thinl I might have eaten some stuxnet earlier

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:57:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

I asked the waitress but she said all the food had been inspected by
the US government so I thought it was fine :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun  5 00:58:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> inspected by the US government [...] was fine
Well there's your problem.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:02:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

There's a Panda Ezpress next to the Caltrain station that's open until
11 every day

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:02:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

Why oops?  Because you'll go there a lot now?

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:03:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:04:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I in fact already went there once today

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:04:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Swap <kchen>

Reminds me of when I was in Germany, and I often ate food at train
stations, because fast food is easier than sit-down when I don't know
German.  Plus the Chinese fast food place had duck.

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Jun  5 01:43:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

woo new seats

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun  5 10:39:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Oops, clever plan was clever. I can't go back to sleep because the
morning sun is shining straight into my eyes.

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Tue Jun  5 12:10:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

The beauty is getting kind of banal, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Tue Jun  5 12:11:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Yesterday was nice and dreary. Why is today sunny and perfect again?

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Tue Jun  5 12:11:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Tue Jun  5 12:11:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"would you like to trade?"

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Tue Jun  5 12:11:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: "Clint is the pink lion." - kenclary <jessiehl>

Wow, and here I was telling someone in personals that I didn't
understand why so many people wanted to move to California.

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:32:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for BEER! <geofft>

UD DEFRAG BEGIN...

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:33:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

DC NOT RESPONDING

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for PILOTS! <geofft>

I'm going to hope that means "Data center" or something, not "domain
controller"

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:34:43 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

or "direct current"?

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:35:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Well, usually I hope it just ... flows. and isn't expected to respond.

Class: geofft Instance: clipper.reader.bootup.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:41:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I thought the problem was that they were beholden to wall street
and others who are able to wield powerful superPACs

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:47:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

"I understand this may be the best we can do, but the best is not
enough tho."

Class: geofft Instance: still-ttants
Time: Tue Jun  5 13:59:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for AIRLINES! <geofft>

homomorphic encryption
homophobic encryption

Class: geofft Instance: still-ttants
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:00:49 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>homophobic encryption

Ensuring there are no two consecutive identical characters in the
hash?

Class: geofft Instance: still-ttants
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:01:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Yeah, well, actually MD5 is doing a lot more to destroy the sanctity
of hash functions than that is

Class: geofft Instance: still-ttants
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:02:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"And some sysadmins will decide to grant such encryption algorithms
read-only access and consider that good enough."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:14:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Dear build scripts, why are you trying to open a file named
"<string>"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:14:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because something is getting toString()ed unexpectedly?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:14:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

yeah, but... this works fine on the build server. Just not locally.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:15:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Wait, no, that's the Python traceback code trying to find a file named
"<string>" to print info about it. It's actually getting... evalled?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:34:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Wait, there was a 500K CLRSes party last fall? WWINI???
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/introduction-to-algorithms-500k-0810.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:34:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

i hear there even was clrs cake

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

> When Stein took the podium, he retorted by citing the song “Kill dash
> nine” by the “nerdcore” rapper Monzy (who also happens to be a Google
> engineer with a PhD from Stanford University). “Your s---'s old and
> busted, mine's the new hotness,” Monzy raps. “You're like CLR, and I'm
> like CLRS.”

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:38:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for MODELS! <geofft>

Okay,
http://www.monzy.com/intro/killdashnine_lyrics.html
is kind of awesome. I think it's better because of how horrible it is

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:40:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

> fs sa rlidwka
> I'll chown your home and take your access away

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:40:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Consuming raw or undercooked meat, poultry, seafood, shellfish, or eggs may increase the risk of foodborne illness <yoz>

I kinda want to hear the pronunciation of ... yeah, that line.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:40:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Grand 1/4 Thru & Spread <kchen>

There's an MP3 there.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:40:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Fraud Film Director Squad<ref>{{cite book |last1=Chapman |first1=Graham |last2=Cleese |first2=John |last3=Gilliam |first3=Terry |last4=Idle |first4=Eric |last5=Jones |first5=Terry |last6=Palin |first6=Michael |title=Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words |volume=Volume Two |publisher=Mandarin |location=London |year=1990 |origyear=1989 |chapter=Twenty-nine |page=78 |isbn=0-7493-0226-7 |quote=I am Inspector Leopard of Scotland Yard, Special Fraud Film Director Squad. }}</ref> <nelhage>

Yeah, it had me at 'fs sa rlidwka'.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:41:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

That verse starts about 2:58 into the song

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:41:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ah So <kchen>

Sounds like "lid" is a syllable, and everything else is a single
litter.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:41:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

"f s s a ar-lid doubleyou k a"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:41:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

It just goes on and on.... I'm kinda impressed.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:43:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Larch <nelhage>

> It's like I'm running Thunderbird and you're still stuck with Pine
:(

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:43:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This is...something.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:43:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Haha, from his blog:

> I have to admit that when I released my debut rap single about a year
> ago, I never considered “nerdcore” a legitimate musical genre. I may
> have presented it as such in my blog post, in which I linked to other
> nerdy rappers whom I admired, but this was mostly because I’ve been
> indoctrinated into the academic tradition of giving credit to “related
> work.” 

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:44:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

==nelson

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:45:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

heh, "Typedef Jams Records"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:47:11 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:49:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

I was at the CLRS party!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:49:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

I ate some CLRS cake and, uh, got the book signed....

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:50:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Heh, if you Google 'fs sa rlidwka', the song is three results before
the scripts FAQ

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:51:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mr. Boat <neboat>

did you bring an electronic copy of the book and ask them to
digitally sign it?

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:51:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I may have to use the song for Intro to AThena this year

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:52:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

do it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:52:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

I did not, no.  

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Tue Jun  5 14:52:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

just remind them that using thunderbird over pine on athena may or may
not be better

Class: geofft Instance: release-team
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:00:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Mmmm, orangutans.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:13:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Shavexory:
x) yak
y) wooly mammoth

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:14:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

can you sell the ivory from y?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:14:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for TRAVELING! <geofft>

nope.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:14:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

"The unfortunate Guillaume Le Gentil spent eight years travelling in
an attempt to observe either of the transits. His unsuccessful journey
led to him losing his wife and possessions and being declared dead"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:17:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "He may ride forever in pursuit of Venus / he's the man who never
returned"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:34:47 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ouch.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:35:15 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Did he not know accurately when the transits were to be?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:35:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I think it's more likely he failed due to weather or things?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:36:08 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: When you pirate abelian groups, you're downloading commutism <yoz>

He was thwarted by such things as war between France and England, I
think.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jun  5 15:36:41 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I see.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

... I just got a Google ad for ... us

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:21:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Was it a recruiting ad?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:22:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

No, just a normal marketing one

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:22:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I parsed that as "a Google ad for the ASA" and wondered why we'd be
advertising...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:24:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Heh. No, for MokaFive. But advertising vacancies or something might
actually work.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:24:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

(Do we^Wyou^Wpronoun actually have vacancies at the moment? I kind of
suspect the answer is no, which is pretty awesome)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:30:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Your karma check for today:
There once was was a user that whined
his existing OS was so blind,
he'd do better to pirate
an OS that ran great
but found his hardware declined.
Please don't steal Mac OS!
Really, that's way uncool.
   (C) Apple Computer, Inc.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:30:58 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Where's that from?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:31:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Don't Steal Mac OS X.kext

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:32:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

(the kernel extension that locks certain executables to Apple
hardware)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:32:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Can you just delete the kext?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:32:55 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I believe the kext is responsible for using keys in the hardware to
decrypt the executables in question.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:32:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Well, then the encrypted executables won't load

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:33:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:34:33 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

If you were evil, you could reverse-engineer it and figure out how to
get those keys, get them out of an Apple computer, and change the
kext to use the fixed keys thus determined instead of trying to get
them out of the hardware. I suppose Apple hopes to put you off of
this endeavor by poetic means.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:35:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I think that's basically how the hackintosh works

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:35:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Haha, "Steal".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:36:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:36:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't be slaves of time, it's a helluva way to die, slowly, by degrees ... down with the Ticktockman! <mherdeg>

I guess iPods all come with "Don't steal music".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:36:33 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!

whoa, flashbacks

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:36:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That was my intent, yes :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:39:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

That guy is an attorney, you know.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 16:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._E._Hart

Class: geofft Instance: mime
Time: Tue Jun  5 19:28:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Are there any _files_ whose mime type is multipart/alternative?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 20:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Everyone at work is confused by the Sport Death Eaters T-shirt

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 21:30:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Those who do not sacrifice,” it says, “have nothing.” (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

How many layers down did you explain it?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun  5 21:52:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Well, it involved mentioning Hunter S. Thompson...

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Wed Jun  6 00:23:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Copyright (C) 1988, 1989,  NeXT, Inc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 02:05:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

acappella-exec is lastmod me? what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 02:05:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

oh, blanche -G, I bet

Class: geofft Instance: statuszzzzzz
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:10:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

hrnghhh operationdayshift is a zzzzzzzsurprising successzzzzzzz

Class: geofft Instance: statuszzzzzz
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:13:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That sounds like operation while-true-;-do sleep 1; talk; done

Class: geofft Instance: statuszzzzzz
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:14:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

heh. no, this is operation have a large window facing the sunrise with
no curtain

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:42:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

   twitter / EFFLive - 2012-06-06 10:41 [http://twitter.com/EFFLive]
       Rep. Doyle: "I'm not exactly sure what nerdcore is. I think it's
a mix
       between Star Wars and Vanilla Ice."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:45:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

.... what hearing is this?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun  6 10:46:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

-> twitter / EFFLive - 2012-06-06 10:23 [http://twitter.com/EFFLive]
       Following along for the "Future of Audio" Congressional hearing?
Stream
       is here: http://t.co/6E0a3v9m

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:54:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

you can run blanche and stella
ella ella eh eh eh

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:55:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

it fits the meter better if you use "you can run blanche and you can
run stella"

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:56:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Pretty again today.

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

The view across the bay of Oakland and the mountains behind it from
101 just south of SF (and Caltrain, but the view is worse) is one of
the best things ever

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for TRAVELING! <geofft>

and actually makes driving bearable

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:59:03 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i actually prefer route 1 for the views, but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 11:59:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Have you switched to a driving commute?

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:02:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I end up doing something dumb every ~2 weeks and taing a ZipCar,
though

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:03:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

shadow: <3 (but there's no particularly useful way to get to work that
way)

Class: geofft Instance: california
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:03:57 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yeah. ca1 is always a trip i take to take that trip. there's basically
no case where it's on my way somewhere

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:12:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for PILOTS! <geofft>

what, I send you an email at 8 PM saying "these are the next steps
I'll try" and you reply to me at 7 AM asking "any luck?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun  6 12:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

you do realize I go home sometimes, right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 13:52:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Huh, there are a lot more multipart subtypes than I realized. Like
multipart/related and multipart/x-mixed-replace

Class: geofft Instance: planet-debian
Time: Wed Jun  6 13:55:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Oooooooooh, moreutils contains an errno(1)

Class: geofft Instance: planet-debian
Time: Wed Jun  6 13:57:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Also, Debian #629247 is horrifying.

Class: geofft Instance: planet-debian Opcode: auto
Time: Wed Jun  6 13:57:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=629247 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 629247: lintian: Lacks a decent shell script parser

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:08:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And all the harm that e'er I've done, alas it was to none but me <kdrinkwa>

Have you ever been driving north on 280 around sunset? If not, please
do -- there's a fog-rolling-over-the-hills phenomenon that's really
wonderful to see.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:10:19 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unconnected node. <aatharuv>

You see that between San Bruno and Daly City on most days....

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:10:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I don't think I've ever gone home via 280, I should.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:11:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

"that said, I don't think I've ever gone home before sunset"

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:11:19 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: A quaint little drinking town with a climbing problem <aatharuv>

280 has less traffic than 101 on most days.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:11:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Yeah, it's true. It probably actually makes sense, since traffic on
101 on the way home is occasionally incredibly dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:15:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I wot there lies a new-slain knight <kdrinkwa>

280 is pretty lovely for most of the Peninsula.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:16:37 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i've been on 280 when it was empty when 101 was jammed. freaky

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:16:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And every place where your thyme was waste shall spread all o'er with rue <kdrinkwa>

There's one vista point a bit south of junction 92 that has a fine
view of the fog wave. Right before you get to it, you come round a
curve and it's suddenly in view and it's like *DRAMATIC MUSIC* "There
it is!"

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:17:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And the answer they gave me, we are single and we are free <kdrinkwa>

I would not know about how much the fogwave shows up north of that
because I lived in Belmont and my HS was south of there.

Class: geofft Instance: california.stark
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:18:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: There's something happening here <yoz>

It's the most scenic freeway this close to home. Plus, sunsets on
Crystal Springs are amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:27:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"cloud-based 'gaming-as-a-service' approach"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:27:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: OCKLE (n.) An electrical switch which appears to be off in both positions. <ahailes>

wait, reeeeeallly?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:28:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for COUGARS! <geofft>

I'm happier not asking questions.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 14:29:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BABWORTH (n.) Something which justifies having a really good cry. <ahailes>

will they play games for me so I don't have to waste my precious time dealing
with games myself?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Jun  6 16:04:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Okay, back to the work I'm paid to do

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun  6 19:54:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

"All right, an easy multimonitor problem. Now to figure out how to
make this customer stop yelling at me"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Wed Jun  6 19:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

(Well, fortunately, the customer isn't yelling at _me_, but that's
only making them angrier because they think engineering isn't looking
at their problem)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FARMERS! <geofft>

Hmmm... openafs.ko is going to be problematic.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:08:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Fortunately, OpenAFS runs on Windows"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:08:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

"Alternatively, you could run your cluster environment as VMs within
some form of lightweight OS designed just for VM hosting"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:09:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Well, I guess you have a point there ... nothing prevents a Linux
kernel that enforces signed modules from accepting signatures by
other random parties trusted by MS. Windows kernels do exactly that.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

So however the Windows AFS driver is signed, sign the Linux one the
same way

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:10:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>nothing prevents a Linux kernel that enforces signed modules from
>accepting signatures by other random parties trusted by MS

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my tainted kernel

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:12:30 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Does moka care about secure boot? Do some real people care
about secure boot?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:13:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Just sign openafs.ko with the key MIT is going to buy for debathena :P

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:14:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Well, we could generally avoid having to buy a key, because unlike
MokaFive, Debathena will be happy, not sad, if it's required to use
only upstream kernels and kernel modules, with the exception of
openafs.ko.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:15:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

tibbetts: We care about it in that we're going to have to deal with
consumer hardware and end users who won't want to turn off the BIOS
setting (same as Fedora deals with it). In all probability we will
probably just do what mjg59 proposes with s/Fedora
certificate/MokaFive certificate/.

We care a good bit less about it as a feature. If customers are
clamoring for it, it hasn't reached me. But I'll be happy to offer it
as a feature, once I stop being annoyed with being _forced_ to offer
it

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:15:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

It's a good feature. It's a bad implementation.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:16:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for BEER! <geofft>

(and the non-Linux-fanboy manager I was talking to earlier today
about this is about as incensed about MS's abuse of monopoly power as
your average blog post commenter, which I found interesting)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:17:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"which blogs"?

(is he incensed, or not?)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:17:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Who would play the role of trusted third
party/CA/rule-enforcer in the ideal situation if not
Microsoft?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for MODELS! <geofft>

He is incensed.
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Verisign.  (Not sure if serious)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Oh, I guess some of you people don't have LWN accounts.
http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/500231/26aca8d665c61a4f/

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

*don't pay for LWN

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Sure, you could have the browser CAs do it, but they
haven't been great at their job in the past.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Yeah, Verisign was $manager's suggestion. Why it's _Microsoft_ I think
irks him.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:19:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

I thought I'd read that verisign is who you're
paying money to, not ms.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:20:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

It is, but it's MS that makes the trust decisions.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:20:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

I think. I still haven't actually figured out how to get MS to sign me
a bootloader

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:20:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

MS was already doing a decent job makign trust decisions
around software signing keys.</small>

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:21:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Also, afaict, it's the same certificate you use for signed NT kernel
drivers, etc. Which, for instance, we already have and have already
paid for, and more relevantly, the folks writing e.g. KVM paravirt
drivers have

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:21:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are you referring to driver and app signing, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:21:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Though it woul have been nice for microsoft to have created
a nonprofit for this or something.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:22:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Given the prevalence of shitty knock-off USB peripherals, I'd think
that all driver signing did is encourage people to ignore the
warnings.  See also, SSL

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:22:04 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I was referring to driver, installer, and library signing,
yes.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:22:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Yeah, objectively speaking, I don't think MS doing this is wrong.

It would be wonderful for the Linux Foundation or Red Hat or
Canonical or someone to do this, but that requires volunteering to
inspect the security practices of dozens of tiny distros, which really
sounds like no fun.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:22:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I have owned a scanner and two USB flash readers whose isntructions
say to ignore the driver signing warning.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:22:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

"On the bright side, I hear Arch is finally signing their updates"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:23:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

jdreed: It's no longer a warning with 64-bit Win7, it's a hard
requirement.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:23:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

You can boot with the requirement off, but you a) have to press
something funny at boot (and if you want to do that, you can press
something else funny at boot and turn off Secure Boot or load your own
key) and b) lose the ability to run DRM-enforcing Windows Media codecs

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:23:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:24:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Ah, Netflix.   The opiate of the masses.  That's... not the worst way
to enforce it, I guess

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:24:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Though who has a computer as their primary media player these days?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:24:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Who doesn't?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:25:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Uh, Roku and friends are an order of magnitude cheaper than a
computer.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:25:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Well, the random politically-enforced technical decisions that block
ptrace for DRM-enforcing processes on OS X and the equivalent of
ptrace for DRM-enforcing processes on Windows, even if you're root,
are not actually any fun.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:25:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

But using your existing computer is several orders of magnitude
cheaper than getting a new device.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:25:36 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

People who have only one computer and need MS to make
security decisons for them don't own a Roku. They probably
have cable TV.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:26:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I didn't think Rokus required pointy hats.  Though I guess there is
the still "I pay the cable guy to come change the batteries in my
reomte" crowd.  

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:27:04 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

They require realizing you want such a device, which most
people do not. Including my MIT-alum, giant-nerd father in
law, who only realized Roku-like-objects were cheap and
actually worked when I told him the other day.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:27:33 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I guess Apple has done a shitty job of marketing the Apple TV

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:27:47 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. Chicago 6/8-11. NYC 6/18-20. Boulder 6/21-22. SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

At the time he was complaining about how streaming video
from his mac to the built in software on his Samsung TV was
flaky. So he's got a pointy hat.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:42:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I already know an awful lot of people and until one of them dies I couldn't @i(possibly) meet anyone else. <eichin>

roku's marketing spread has been kind of
wierd.  I only heard about the roku specifically because my mom saw it
on the shopping channel and wanted to know how it compared to her
tivo; I knew such things were cheap, but not *that* cheap.

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:44:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Am I the only one without a LinkedIn account?

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:45:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

maybe.  "even i have one".

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jun  6 20:53:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't be slaves of time, it's a helluva way to die, slowly, by degrees ... down with the Ticktockman! <mherdeg>

I'm reluctant to use Roku because I tried its competitor Boxee on an
Apple TV and it was unusably slow, so I decided that no one could
make a good version of this product.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:12:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Oh huh. The Prayer of St. Francis actually dates to 1912? This is like
when I discovered that "Desiderata" wasn't actually hundreds of years
old.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:12:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_of_Saint_Francis

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:13:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, St. Francis dictated prayers from centuries beyond the grave?
Doesn't that make it even more awesome or something?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:14:03 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I feel lied to D:

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:14:52 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

(Unsurprised about Desiderata, though.  Not much poetic frill in that
poem.)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Oh huh, Flame _did_ preimage MD5.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:34:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Not a completely blind first preimage attack, though.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2012/06/06/more-information-about-the-digital-certificates-used-to-sign-the-flame-malware.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:35:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

An essential part of performing a collision attack is that the
attacker needs to be able to predict completely the certificate
content that will be signed by the CA.  Because of the predictable
serial numbers, the attacker can perform a set of certificate
enrollments that reveal the likely serial number when they perform
their collision attack.  This is also called a "chosen prefix
collision attack" [2].  The attacker can then apply the collision
algorithm documented by Sotirov et. al. [3] to create a forged
certificate that removes the critical Microsoft Hydra extension and
still matches the MD5 hash of the legitimate certificate signed by the
CA.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:35:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Montgolfier Brothers in Love <nelhage>

I thought it was pretty much just a collision attack.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

They don't have complete control over what's signed

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:37:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Doctor <nelhage>

Well, chosen-prefix collision attack.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:37:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Death of Mary Queen of Scots <nelhage>

Which is known to be ~easy with md5.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:37:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: ''Julius Caesar'' on an Aldis lamp <nelhage>

For definitions of "easy" equal to "demonstrated in basically exactly
the same context in 2008"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:38:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Yeah, true. And I guess "and we did that quickly" isn't actually
obvious, since they could have spent tons of time generating the
collision.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:38:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Is context here the "Flame" that is/was an attack on Iranian
computers?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:39:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Wacky Queen <nelhage>

I mean, IIRC Sotirov did it a day on 300 PS2's.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jun  6 22:39:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: "Anything Goes" (song) <nelhage>

Pretty sure your favorite first-world government can afford 300 PS2's.

Class: geofft Instance: xnu.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 23:08:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

 * Returns:
 *   EINVAL     no text vnode associated with the process
 *   EBADEXEC   invalid code signing data
 *   ENOMEM     you should reboot

Class: geofft Instance: xnu.q
Time: Wed Jun  6 23:09:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for MODELS! <geofft>

Well, uh, I guess that's not an incorrect explanation of that error...

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Thu Jun  7 00:39:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Your zsig, it is the best.
"So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for THE HOMELESS!"

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Thu Jun  7 00:39:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This would be a great edgy new-media-art project.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:18:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

How does Smif College's library have so much funding :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:31:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for BEER! <geofft>

Oops, been at work past Kerberos o'clock

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:31:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That is usually a sign that you should GO HOME.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:32:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for SURGEONS! <geofft>

"but that sounds like effort"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:33:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sleeping under your desk will make you sorry. Not sleeping at all will
make you sorrier. Go home.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:38:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's kerberos o'clock?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:38:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

When my tickets I got when I got here expire

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:38:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PILOTS! <geofft>

Usually having that happen at SIPB means I'm doing something wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:39:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This also applies to the real world.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:44:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"You've been here for ten hours; it's probably time to take a break"

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:48:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

... piano and viola and cello cover of Rolling in the Deep? wat

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:48:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

First, wat, second, what does this have to do with anything on this
station

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Thu Jun  7 01:48:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Hm, just piano and cello? I always underestimate how high cellos are.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:26:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I see you driving 'round town with the girl I love, and I'm like,
good luck finding parking

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:27:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

I guess the two of you on bikes isn't quite as romantic, but still,
good luck finding parking

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:27:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

that's too many syllables

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:28:32 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I see you driving round town with the girl I love
but you can't park there?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:28:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

If I was richer, I'd use an Uber, since cabs are shhhhh (since cabs
are shhhh)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:29:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Although there's smog in my town, I still hope that you drown, 'cause
there you'll find parking

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:30:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

I pity the fo-ool who drives into SF
(I can't find no street parking
 Aw crap the sky is darkening)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 10:32:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

I really hate cars right now.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:15:56 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

it will be .... interesting to see what happens as far as signed
kernel modules, because there are certainly people who (arguably
reasonably) interpret a signature that a random can't generate as
being not GPL compatible

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:28:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I don't see how that's more GPL-incompatible than, like, not allowing
signed modules at all.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:31:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

er, *any modules at all.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:32:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, i am not the only one who thinks there be dragons here
http://groups.google.com/group/linux.kernel/msg/36ad030397f575f5?pli=1

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:33:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Since Fedora/LKML/whoever isn't distributing the hardware, the
TiVoization provisions (in both GPLv2 and GPLv3) don't apply. I think
it'll be more interesting for e.g. Dell to keep shipping Ubuntu.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:35:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Stonehenge and Mr. Attila the Hun <nelhage>

As far as I can tell, there is a strong contingent on the Internet
that interprets anything they don't like as probably a GPL violation.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:35:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:36:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There is a strong contingent on the Internet that interprets anything
they don't like as a US Constitution violation, I mean.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:36:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Ugh. Why do I bother waking up early if nothing's open until 10 or 11

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

And there is a strong contingent on the Internet that interprets the
GPL as a US Constitution violation, eve.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:37:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for BEER! <geofft>

*even

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:37:47 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

that's probably true. 
i've watched this more closely after the (albeit different) issue
where VLC was removed from the iOS app store.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

But that was not a technical restriction, that was the imposition of a
conflicting license agreement.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:40:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Does apt violate the GPL for checking signatures, e.g.?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:42:14 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i don't think it does. i'm just waiting to see what falls out of this.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:44:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

I want nap-time back

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:44:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:45:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

I actually think my company will be more productive if we turn out the
lights for half an hour after lunch and give everyone one of those
mats we had in kindergarten

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:46:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<What then? (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

You guys should get some nap pods*.

*: Note: nap pods are actually somewhat disappointing in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:46:52 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: sleeping through the apocalypse <eichin>

um, gplv2 doesn't *have* any anti-tivoization
provisions, that's why we got v3, right?

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:47:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I want there to be a nap pod which actually puts me to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:47:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Please enter the pod and raise your arm for the injection"

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:48:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

see that would work.  am open to other techniques.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:48:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: RAF Banter <nelhage>

That is my understanding.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:48:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The meek will not inherit the Earth. The lawyers challenged God's Will and had it overturned. <eichin>

Fifth Element! :-)

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:49:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

YES

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:49:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Architects Sketch <nelhage>

We are talking about the opinions of People On The Internet, here,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:50:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Children are to a peaceful and enjoyable life what the Goths were to Roman social order. <eichin>

Ohhhh.  Nevermind.
(as one whose job has included "speaker to lawyers", I just shouldn't go there :-)

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:50:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 7,017,188. Issued March 21, 2006; 3rd of 6. <eichin>

real nap pods would have been great in kindergarten too (I failed naptime)

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:51:01 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I hated naptime in Kindergarten.  I think adults make kids naps
because adults want to nap :P

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:51:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:51:48 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I assumed adults made kids nap so they could read or something.
"Would you feel safe napping while responsible for a room full of
kindergarteners just because they told you they were napping too?"

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:52:31 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I'm not saying the teachers got to nap :P

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:52:54 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I'm certain that if I had to supervise loud five-year-olds for several
hours per day, I would make up any excuses I could think of to get
them to shut up all at once for as long as possible.

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 12:54:10 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Probably extending to made-up stories about armed men patrolling for
children to kidnap.  But "nap time" is probably less traumatic.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 13:46:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I thought GPLv2 contained vague and/or weak provisions

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun  7 13:47:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

but I haven'tread it recently

Class: geofft Instance: jessiehl
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:18:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Move to Spain?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:19:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PETS! <geofft>

Finally took it t a bike shop. The tire was in fact slashed. I now
have a shiny new tire on my bike

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

and biked to Caltrain :-D

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:20:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

That sounds backwards, I thought bikers slashed the tires of *cars*.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:20:20 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: f . g) . h = f . (g . h <phurst>

The cars are fighting back.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:20:35 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: f . g) . h = f . (g . h <phurst>

Not the car @bold(drivers), mind. The cars themselves.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:21:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Well, just like with drone strikes, Stuxnet, and NYT articles
advertising presidential bravado, any strategy we use against them
legitimizes them using it against us.

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:23:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for BEER! <geofft>

Also purchased a 4G wifi thing from Virgin at Best Buy. The guy had
apparently not sold one of these before. Which is not _too_ surprising
since it was only released on May 31, but he was flailing a bit about
'can I sell you this yet" and "what do I scan to activate it"

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:23:28 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

how much is the service?

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:24:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

$35/month for a few gigs over 3G and unlimited(*) over 4G

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:24:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

more for more 3G gigs

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:24:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for COUGARS! <geofft>

(*) if you use more than, like, 10G they start to throttle you

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:25:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for PANDAS! <geofft>

If you want a Virgin referral code or something, let me know. We both
get something out of it

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:25:56 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

if the referral codes will be useful when they launch the iphone on
the 29th, i'll take one. i'm now thinking that's my plan.

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:26:33 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(paying $130/mo for family plan for gwen and i to at&t -> paying
$30-$5 for me and $50-$5 for her, but i have to eat the up-front on
the phones)

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:26:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Oh, is Virgin getting the iPhone? Intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: commute
Time: Thu Jun  7 14:27:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/iphone

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Thu Jun  7 15:56:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Apparently I can cut my losses with VDI and still be a hero

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Jun  7 16:07:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Live From the Grill-o-Mat <nelhage>

http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/06/flame-crypto-breakthrough/

Class: geofft Instance: mokafive
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for MODELS! <geofft>

jdreed: Oh, are we actually advertising? Yay

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:04:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:05:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The Time on BBC 1 <nelhage>

So safe money is probably that the NSA developed their own
chosen-prefix collision attack, quite possibly before the
publicly-known one.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:05:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Yeah, that sounds pretty plausible.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:06:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: An Apology/Words Not to be Used Again <nelhage>

The open question in my mind is whether it is significantly faster
than the publicly-known one, but honestly it doesn't matter because
they can easily afford enough hardware to execute the publicly-known
one Fast Enough™.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:10:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

I think all I've heard of the "yolo" phenomenon is people complaining
about it.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:11:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

I have somehow managed to avoid seeing anyone use it earnestly.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:11:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Man-Powered Flight <nelhage>

... "yolo"?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:11:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

I maintain that I am totally up for people pointing out that other
people obviously like owls.
(http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-YOLO&Category_Code=QC)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:13:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

nelhage: it stands for "you only live once"? It's apparently become a
thing? I don't understand it? I really don't understand the backlash
against it?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:14:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

AIUI, it just got overused on FB.  "Like everything else"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:14:52 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: f . g) . h = f . (g . h <phurst>

I've actually seen it used like "Dude, look both ways before crossing
the street. YOLO." which I think is a really great reanalysis of the
sentiment.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:14:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

I feel like the irritating people who trend on twitter also probably
overused it?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:15:35 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'll encrypt them so no one else can use them. <eichin>

yeah, the *only* place I've seen it is in the QC t-shirt 
ad, and hadn't gotten around to checking if it was a thing

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Jun  7 17:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I first encountered it when I visited my high school this spring
and saw posters of it up in that weird
mostly-forced-by-the-administration way that always tempted me to
smoke marijuana out of spite when I was younger.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun  7 18:45:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

bluh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun  7 18:46:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

can I go back to working on things that don't have customers?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:35:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

http://www.firstpaloalto.com/worship.shtml#001633

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:35:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I knew it was hard to get maintainers to take patches but I didn't
realize _this_ was necessary.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:37:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, *that* church. That's right next to my dentist.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d.prnf
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:40:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I suppose making a church-times website called WhenIsGod.com would be
indefensible trademark infringement of some sort.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:49:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Ugh, dumb problems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun  7 22:49:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

All I want is a reliable build environment

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:53:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for BEER! <geofft>

Got my access point thingy activated. It wouldn't let me get to the
activation website through its own connection so I had to go through
my phone.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:55:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

I got the wifi thing because I expected the USB thing to not work on
Linux... but it has a USB port, and it totally does. You plug it in,
it gets configured as eth1, NetworkManager picks it up and DHCPs, it's
all beautiful.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:55:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

NM's UI calls it "Linux 2.6.28.10-arm1 with pxa3xx u2d Sierra
Wireless Tethered Hotspot".

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:56:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

I have an MDN and MSID in the 415 area code. I wonder what those do.
Do they eat up normal phone number namespace?

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I feel like I should understand the distinction between "WPA2-Personal
AES" and "WPA/WPA2 Personal". Oddly, the docs claim the latter is more
secure and less compatible? They may be outdated docs talking about
WEP?

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Thu Jun  7 23:59:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

There's a port-forwarding feature, but I can't seem to get it to work.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:23:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The USB device is preferable here because it doesn't add a layer of NAT

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:28:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Well, except that a) I have enough NetworkManager yaks to shave (and
the last time I wanted to shave an NM yak, I actually could not get
network where I was) so I didn't feel like risking one and b) I want
to use it with my iPad, which doesn't realllly support arbitrary USB
devices.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:29:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

And you can hit the DMZ button if you care.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:29:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"I recommend getting a SIM for your iPad and not worrying at it"

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:30:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

If I remember correctly, when WPA came out, it was designed to use a MIC
that was able to reuse some of the hardware in existing WEP-capable NICs
but also wasn't as secure as what was being planned for 802.11i.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:51:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Quentin: Apart from that being more expensive, I don't have the
hardware for it (I was told that it makes the device heavier and also
makes it run hotter)

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:51:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Also, if I did that, I wouldn't be able to use it with my computer,
would I? :)

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 00:53:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Hmm. The user manual contains a full copy of the GPL, but no reference
to where to get the code...

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 01:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think the iPad can be an AP?

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 01:15:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Apparently only on Verizon, but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 01:16:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(AT&T claims it's coming. Also, note that the Verizon iPad can also do
GSM.)

Class: geofft Instance: network
Time: Fri Jun  8 01:43:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Sure. But it's less likely to be $35/month for unlimited data

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for BEER! <geofft>

Why does Bing not seem to index bugs.debian.org at all?

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:32:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Touch 1/4 <kchen>

http://bugs.debian.org/robots.txt

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:40:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Ew.

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:40:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Is there a bug about that?

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:41:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Debian #657106, looks like

Class: geofft Instance: bing Opcode: auto
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:41:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=657106 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 657106: bugs.debian.org: please allow some other search engines in robots.txt

Class: geofft Instance: bing
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:46:38 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was vaguely hoping to see anti-MS snark in the robots.txt, I'm
disappointed.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:52:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Okay, a blood-curdling scream from the end of the train is not
actually a good sound.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:52:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Fortunately the train was stopped, so I think someone was just being
silly.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun  8 15:52:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: %DECSYSTEM-20 NOT RUNNING <kcr>

"A great many dramatic situations begin with a bloodcurdling scream"

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Jun  8 17:07:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Bright clear blue sky, 70 degrees.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Jun  8 17:08:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

This is why I could never live in CA.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Jun  8 17:08:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Perfect bicycling weather!

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Jun  8 17:14:07 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... we had a ton of overdue books from the Library of Alexandria... <eichin>

oh, we *had* Bright clear blue sky, 75
degrees... twice today, for 20m at a time :-)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:16:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Wat, where did DEBUG.EXE go

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:16:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Install windbg already and start hating yourself less

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:16:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(note that I said "less", not "not at all")

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:17:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

This is just for amusement value.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:21:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I think DEBUG.EXE is actually an easier to use program than WinDBG.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jun  8 18:22:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, hang on, it's NTSD.EXE now or something, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  8 20:05:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Maybe I'll just leave and keep working from cafes or something

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  8 20:13:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

... ... did my wifi thing actually _fall out_ of my backpack?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun  8 20:13:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for MODELS! <geofft>

The pocket it was in was unzipped

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:38:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Okay, _Surprised By Hope_ is turning out awesome. (Still only in the
first chapter)

Class: geofft Instance: theology.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Also, apparently the original version of "Midnight Clear" includes the
lyric, "For lo, the days are hast'ning on, by prophet bards
foretold"...

When I grow up, I want to be a prophet-bard.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:56:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm wearing it <kdrinkwa>

What's it about, briefly?

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:58:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

That there's a reason the creeds talk about "the resurrection of the
body", and it means something.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:59:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

And from there, that there's a reason to care about the present world
onstead of just saying "mrh, heaven will be better".

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 01:59:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

*meh

Class: geofft Instance: theology.d2
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:00:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

I wish ereaders were better about footnotes

Class: geofft Instance: theology.d2
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:00:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

(I think nelhage has complained about this before)

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:20:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Then fancies fly away -- He'll hear not what men say <kdrinkwa>

Huh. "God made it and it's pretty nice" aren't good enough reasons?

I... is there a book that is like Ye Basic Generic Sunday School
Cliff's Notes, but for adults? Whenever I hear you talk about theology
I feel like I accidentally skipped all the 100-level classes.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:24:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Hah. Um.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:26:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Part of what NT Wright is doing here is dispelling popular conceptions
of the afterlife and heaven and hell and pointing out that theu all
miss the resurrection and that that's important. I... am not sure I
know a book that does a quick job of teaching you incorrect but
popular theology.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:26:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And he has made a ladder lang wi' thirty steps and three <kdrinkwa>

I've definitely asked that question before. It's possibly better asked
on, say, facebook.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:27:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: The moon would quake and the stars would shake <kdrinkwa>

(er, the "Christianity 101" question, not the one that actually has to
do with the book, which sounds like it would be fascinating if I had
any grounding in what it was talking about)

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:39:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

My bookshelf is small, but of the things that have ended up on it,
Huston Smith's "The Religions of Man" looks plausible. As does Lee
Strobel's "The Case For Christ", available at a campus evangelical
organization recruiting booth near you. (That's where I got my copy)

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:41:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I mention the latter because, first, it's targeted at newcomers, and
second, it's sufficiently popular and populist to be represwntative pf
the beliefs (and mistakes) of a large and relevant segment of American
Christianity.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:41:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

You can also TVtropes yourself on Wikipedia's articles about various
historical heresies.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun  9 02:43:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Oh right, congrads all you gratuating people

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 07:12:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I feel lke my maternal grandmother might know something about this.

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Sat Jun  9 07:12:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

oh right, I completely forgot about my converting-to-christianity plot

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Sat Jun  9 17:49:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Oh huh, "entrepreneur" and "enterprise" are cognate

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Jun  9 19:35:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

The Standard MIDI File Specification is not available for free online?
But "will be"? Sigh

Class: geofft Instance: maps.google.com
Time: Sat Jun  9 19:46:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Oh right, Zagat

Class: geofft Instance: maps.google.com
Time: Sat Jun  9 19:46:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

I think?

Class: geofft Instance: mq.wut
Time: Sat Jun  9 21:44:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

> DebConf11 had various on-site transactions, via the DIVA
> organization.  However, this organization essentially went rogue, and
> we have no report or mechanism of knowing its transactions.  I had
> originally attempt to track local money (anything within Bosnia), but
> this was impossible to track as they were uncooperative.  So, there
> were significant venue, hotel, and food expenses, somehow paid for by
> the .ba government through DIVA.  Eventually, we decided to only track
> global (non-Bosnia) money.  We think.  This report only tracks money,
> expenses, and incomes from outside of Bosnia - all the Debian trusted
> organizations.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:28:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Sugarlump in the evenings is confusing... it tries to be both a cafe
for people to tool with their laptops and a fancy dinner place at the
same time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:28:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for MARKETERS! <geofft>

That said, I think I confused them by tooling with my laptop and
ordering dinner. (But the food was actually pretty good.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:29:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

The people at the next table are dressed up and having an n-course
meal?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:30:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Past geofft, you have the _worst_ filesystem layout sense ever

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:31:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Apparently I should go look in ~/src/debian for everything ever no
matter what, it's been where the two things I couldn't find today had
been hiding (a copy of a Debian bug report, and my patched gdm-config)

Class: geofft Instance: summer
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:45:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

<3 how late the sunlight lasts

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:50:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

India and Pakistan are in different time zones? Who thought that was a
good idea?

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:50:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

China is as wide as the US, and is all one timezone?

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:52:23 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, 
and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not 
commit suicide. - John Adams <aatharuv>

"Blame the British"

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:52:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yes, but
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Population_density_of_China_by_first-level_administrative_regions(English).png

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:54:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

India is all one time zone.

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:57:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"The map is wrong because nobody lives in Taiwan Province, PRC"

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 22:57:30 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Sanity is a curable disease. <aatharuv>

This has not always been the case! (During British times, there were
multiple time zones, including Karachi, Bombay, New Delhi, and Burma
time

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 23:06:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

In Karachi?
Or Bombay?
Make sure to check
The time of day
Burma time.

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 23:09:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Oh son don't be so venturesome, for England is the heart of oak <kdrinkwa>

++

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sat Jun  9 23:54:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Talaan-u rûk-ir tor urûk <anusinha>

The best part about India's timezone is that they're half an hour
shifted from the rest of the world.

Class: geofft Instance: summer.d
Time: Sun Jun 10 00:34:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Well, yeah, the confusing thing is India is at GMT+5:30, Pakistan at
GMT+5, Afghanistan at GMT+4:30, and Iran at GMT+3:30.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Sun Jun 10 01:22:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Prelude> 25 * 12 / 40
*** Exception: getCurrentDirectory: does not exist (No such file or directory)

Class: geofft Instance: apartmentq
Time: Sun Jun 10 02:33:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

"I would be less drunk if people would just blog more."

Class: geofft Instance: apartmentq
Time: Sun Jun 10 02:33:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Apparently there was an Iron Blogger meetup today

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:33:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for MODELS! <geofft>

Okay, Jerome was on crack.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:34:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:35:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Psalm 41 [42 in modern numbering]... "As the deer pants for streams of
water, so my soul pants for you, my God"... or in what I _assumed_ was
the standard Latin version because it's what Palestrina used, "Sicut
cervus desiderat ad fontes aquarum, ita desiderat anima mea ad te
deus". Same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:36:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Jerome goes "Sicut areola praeparata ad inrigationes aquarum sic anima
mea praeparata est ad te Deus," or loosely, "As a field is prepared to
be irrigated with water, so my soul is prepared for you, O Lord."

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:37:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I have no idea how you get from "deer" to "field" (well, "open
courtyard; garden plot, seed bed" from words(1)). And I have _no_ idea
how you go from that to just mistranslating the rest of the sentence.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:38:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

And I really don't understand, given that the Church clearly had a
sane Latin version for that text, why they standardized on the Vulgate.
Or at the least, why they didn't fix that first.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:41:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I started chasing this because Oxford's Hertford College has as its
motto "Sicut cervus anhelat ad fontes aquarum", which is basically the
same thing, but different enough to be suspicious why they and
Palestrina didn't use the same source. As it turns out, Rome currently
uses "Quemadmodum desiderat cervus...", which, also basically the same
thing, but also different. I haven't figured out where that's from but
it's standard.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:43:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Try calling your katana Moulinette.
 <rnjacobs>

The Psalms have an Judaic origin, no? Does its text explain anything?

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:46:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for BEER! <geofft>

The people in the comments on this blog post
https://hefenfelth.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/bedes-abbreviated-psalm-4142/
think no.
"Jerome had to have been looking at a corrupted Hebrew source because
the Masoretic Text (the authoritative Hebrew preserved more or less
intact from the beginning of the Era) does indeed have eyyal (deer)
which looks nothing like gan or ginnah (garden). The LXX has elaphos
(deer) as well and Rahlfs gives no textual variants."

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 03:59:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Aha, there is a thing called the Novo Vulgata, which differs from
what's called the Stuttgart version, which BibleGateway has. And the
Novo Vulgata has the "Quemadmodum" version.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_index_lt.html

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 04:00:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Next question: where is the version of Psalm 23 that starts "dominus
regit me" ("The Lord rules me") as opposed to "dominus pascit me"
("The Lord shepherds me") from?

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 04:00:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I feel like if you manage to end up with a Psalm 23:1 that doesn't
talk about shepherds, either you are doing something very wrong, or
everyone else is.

Class: geofft Instance: vulgate
Time: Sun Jun 10 04:09:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Oh, hm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Psalters

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 17:52:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Ugh, I think I'm going to go outside because it's too warm inside

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 17:52:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

air...conditioning?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 17:52:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

We apparently don't believe in air conditioning

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 17:52:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Start believing,

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 17:53:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Summers are supposed to be colder than this

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 18:03:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You may not be interested in summer, but summer is interested in
/you/.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 18:04:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: libyan-spider.wq
Time: Sun Jun 10 18:40:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

"The .ly registry has informed us that all domains that have passed the
redemption period and that have not been renewed by their .ly domain
owners will become available to the public for registration.

"As many of you already know, the redemption period was extended to
allow for Libyan clients, who were disconnected from the internet
during the war, enough time to renew their domains. The redemption
period was extended to not only Libyan clients but also for
international clients as well. Instead of the redemption period being
2 months, it was extended until the end of 2011.This extension was put
into effect since June 2011."

Class: geofft Instance: libyan-spider.wq
Time: Sun Jun 10 18:40:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

There is something surreal about owning a .ly domain

Class: geofft Instance: libyan-spider.wq
Time: Sun Jun 10 18:51:18 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Fighting Ships) <eichin>

I'm still kind of bemused that it's not a crime anymore

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:23:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

currently reading about the RIFF file format.
currently questioning my life choices.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:24:41 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A demonic voice proclaims "There is no kitten, only Zuul".  You flee.
 <rnjacobs>

RMIDs?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:27:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Soundfonts.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:37:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

OW

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

That was ... kinda loud

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:38:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Do I want to know why you're fighting with timidity?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:38:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I don't actually know.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:39:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

But we're going with Debian #649274 at the moment. (I'm reviewing his third
hunk that talks about soundfonts and linked somethings)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:39:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649274 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 649274: possible new upstream release

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:40:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Also on the list is LP #210472 / Debian #563252.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:40:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=563252 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Launchpad ticket 210472: Timidity daemon doesn't play nice with pulse audio (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/210472)
Debian ticket 563252: Difficult to set up Timidity to work with PulseAudio. (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=563252)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:41:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Also I guess Debian #649344 is release-critical, but that doesn't
mean I need to deal with it before the freeze, that means Debian will
wait for me to fix it before they release. (Right?)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:41:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649344 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 649344: timidity: embedded fork of libmikmod needs to be dealt with

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 19:42:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

But yeah, the relevant bit is there's a freeze coming up within, like,
days (and they're intentionally not announcing when)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:08:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

> wait for me to fix it before they release
I thought they solved this by declaring that your software was no longer
part of The Release

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:08:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Shhhh.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:09:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Where would Debian be if the release process were not bound to the
whim of every arbitrary person who declares at some point in the last
ten years that they're a maintainer of a package???

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:09:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

(Answer: Ubuntu)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity.d
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Augh debbugs is so confusing / dumb

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:33:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Oops. Made the mistake of looking at the list of newsgroups in
alt.binaries.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:33:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Can I have my innocence back yet?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:35:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

Aww, good times. alt.barney.die.die.die

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:36:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

ITYM alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:36:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Hard to believe there was ever real traffic on
alt.barney.sponge-minions.die.die.die.

Class: geofft Instance: bugtrackers
Time: Sun Jun 10 20:49:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I really wish sd were actively maintained...

Class: geofft Instance: kinit,-now-with-magical-ptrace-powers
Time: Mon Jun 11 01:30:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Debian #345443

Class: geofft Instance: kinit,-now-with-magical-ptrace-powers Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Jun 11 01:30:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=345443 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 345443: heimdal-clients: kinit does not set KRB5CCNAME

Class: geofft Instance: kinit,-now-with-magical-ptrace-powers
Time: Mon Jun 11 01:31:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Mon Jun 11 01:37:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for AIRLINES! <geofft>

The soundfont spec is _so boring_

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Mon Jun 11 01:39:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for FARMERS! <geofft>

(and I say that having gone through a bunch of specs recently)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:09:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for PANDAS! <geofft>

It's kind of unfortunate that I can't.... decide to leave the
Internet.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:09:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yes you can. Do it right now. Go to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:10:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

But then I'll be back tomorrow.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:10:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(Good night)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:10:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

This is inspired by distaste at www.youtube.com's home page... I
can't actually decide "all right, everyone on the Internet thinks
social is the next big thing, I'm out"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:10:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Have you considered backpacking?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:11:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Can't do that for the rest of my life.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:11:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A mathematician calculates the halting probability of a Turing machine.
 <rnjacobs>

"Doesn't mean people don't try" :p

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:11:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I guess I could go join a monastery or something?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:11:32 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Scrolls fading?  It's not the heat, it's the humidity.
 <rnjacobs>

With your luck you'd get roped into making their webpage.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:12:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I feel like I would be _almost_ happy with that if I could go write
music or something, but, like, even doing that in this day and age
without interacting with the Internet seems hard.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:12:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Certainly talking about theology in this day and age without talking
about the Internet seems approximately impossible.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:13:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Also, http://www.cardinalseansblog.org/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for SURGEONS! <geofft>

... okay, not sure how I feel about
http://www.cardinalseansblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/05312012_1057_P5316672-c.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:14:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The World's Biggest Motzah Ball!
 <rnjacobs>

I wonder if we'll ever have have a group of cranky old farts who decide to
reimplement a corner of the internet circa 1985.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:15:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

http://olduse.net/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:17:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It's one thing to be nostalgia, it's another to have it living.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:25:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:54:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

All right, who thought Google was a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:54:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

I can't even copy and paste links. Your search engine is useless to
me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 11 02:55:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

oh right, about that -> sleep thing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 11 14:38:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

*insert complaint about lack of git here*

Class: geofft Instance: is&t.mq
Time: Mon Jun 11 14:50:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

"please read the related Knowledge Based article"

Class: geofft Instance: is&t.mq
Time: Mon Jun 11 14:50:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

IS&T publishes other kinds of articles?

Class: geofft Instance: is&t.mq
Time: Mon Jun 11 14:50:48 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: A gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: is&t.mq
Time: Mon Jun 11 15:01:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Most time being Underground <nelhage>

"Faith-based support"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 11 15:43:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

You know, I never really thought about the problem that you can't
quite run just one vCPU of an SMP guest OS and not make the guest
kernel really, really confused.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 11 15:45:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

(VMware calls their approaches to this problem "strict co-scheduling"
and "relaxed co-scheduling")

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:02:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Fedora wants the FQDN as the hostname, right? As opposed to Debian,
which just wants the first component?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:11:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Agh why isn't this using d-i

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:11:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for PILOTS! <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if that's actually easy to fix.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:11:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because it's anaconda :)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:12:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I don't think I can rename LVs?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:46:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

"Thank you for installing Fedora. Fedora is a compilation of software
packages, each under their own license. The compilation is made
available under the GNU General Public License version 2."

wat?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 18:48:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's like an anthology, right?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:05:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Undressing in Public <nelhage>

I assume that this doesn't make any sense, but that the lawyers
demanded that there's a license on "the distribution"

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:05:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It makes as much sense as being able to hold a copyright on a
particular collection of stories or essays wihout holding copyright on
any of its components.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:33:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Oooh. Their implementation of command-not-found prints
bash: foo: command not found...
_immediately_, and then goes and searches for it, so you can ^C the
search and you know it's a CNF trigger and not the command doing
something in the usual terse UNIX style.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:33:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Ratcatcher <nelhage>

However, IME it is also *even slower* than ours.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:33:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The BBC is Short of Money <nelhage>

Not that I know how slow ours is, since I've had it disabled for years.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:34:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Bah. I know how to make Ubuntu's fast. I should just go do it some time

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:34:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Silly Disturbances <nelhage>

Please fucking do.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:34:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Unfortunately I haven't had time for "I should just go [...]" lately

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:35:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Also, I'm worried that I'd end up being responsible for it

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:35:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The Time on BBC 1 <nelhage>

I guess it actually is decently fast on my SSD.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:35:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

It does, however, appear not to search the package database, and only
do a similarity search among installed commands?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Which, given that git does that ~instantaneously, is pathetic.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:35:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Also, yum search is incredibly slow.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:36:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  La March Futile <nelhage>

Like I'm seeing 50-70ms for 'time /usr/lib/command-not-found --
$blah', which is pretty close to acceptable.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Wat, there's no kvm(1)?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

qemu-system-x86_64 doesn't have the same ring to it.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:39:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for MODELS! <geofft>

uh

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:39:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

why am I getting a STOP error

Class: geofft Instance: fedora.d
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:39:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Kilimanjaro Expedition (Double Vision) <nelhage>

Do I want to know what you are doing with Fedora?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:40:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for THE ARMY! <geofft>

(Context here is that I got fed up of the external USB SATA dock
connected to my laptop (my usual machine) that hosts my Windows VMs
crashing under load, so I stuck it in my desktop. And also decided to
reinstall said desktop with F17, because why not.)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora.d
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:40:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Building character.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:41:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

UNSUPPORTED_PROCESSOR?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora.d
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:45:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

In seriousness, there are a good handful of things that exist on
Fedora that I'd like to be able to trivially play with, and I've only
used this machine so far to remote-desktop to another dev machine.
Adding some Windows VMs should not actually be interesting either.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:51:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Oh, I bet it was sad about me switching processors on it, and I
actually wanted qemu-kvm.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 19:51:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

which has... more ring to it.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:01:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

And Ubuntu doesn't seem to have a qemu-kvm command. :(

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:02:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Party Political Broadcast on Behalf of the Norwegian Party (subtitled) <nelhage>

qemu-system-x86_64 should work on both. Pass '-cpu kvm32' if you need
it to be 32-bits.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:03:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Windows is STOPping with qemu-system-x86_64, even with -cpu kvm64. I
want a 64-bit guest

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:03:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Death of Mary Queen of Scots <nelhage>

Well, tell Windows to suck less.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:04:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Now that you mention it, I _do_ have this VM configured for
kernel debugging...

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:05:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for FARMERS! <geofft>

Hm, modprobe kvm_intel nested=1 might not have been the brightest
idea.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:05:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

-> lunch, and hope this VM recovers by the time I get back

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:05:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

s/VM/host/

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:08:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Huh. Interwebs suggest -cpu Nehalem.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:16:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

They seriously called this thing Beefy Miracle?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:17:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

The crap is syscall_16

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:25:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Scott of the Sahara <nelhage>

ioctl, apparently, on x86_64

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Mon Jun 11 20:44:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Why doesn't strace know that?

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon Jun 11 21:45:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

http://www.seshop.com/static/images/product/12214/L.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon Jun 11 21:45:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for BEER! <geofft>

I mostly don't understand the illustration

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon Jun 11 21:45:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

Each gumball is a VM

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Mon Jun 11 21:49:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

"I want a computer that powerful"

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Jun 11 22:46:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Seriously? This is a name for software?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drools

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Jun 11 22:47:34 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"For the tendency of saliva to flow out of the mouth, see drooling."

Class: geofft Instance: java
Time: Mon Jun 11 22:48:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is. Horrible, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 03:11:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

http://www.tbray.org/tmp/draft-tbray-http-legally-restricted-status.html

Okay, that's adorable. (If you don't get it, make sure you read the
Acknowledgements section.)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 12 03:15:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Ronald Reagan's chief of staff was named Donald Regan?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 12 03:29:17 2012 Host: wumpus.1ts.org
From: choose death <kcr>

yep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:17:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

ow. Pro tip: if there are rails on the road, don't bike into them

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:17:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Name your bike ruby. Now you're ruby on rails.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:18:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

at least the car behind me decided to stop and see if I was okay
instead of running me over

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:18:33 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i... did that on good friday. and took a header with the camera in the
saddlebag

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:19:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

oof. I haven't checked my electronics yet

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:19:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

my chain is ... something, and my shin/foot hurts

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:19:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Do you mean buried streetcar rails, or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:19:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Yup

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Well, except these also secretly connect to the Caltrain station?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:20:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What angle did you hit them at?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:20:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

(That particular track is afaict defunct)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Like 10 degrees. I was avoiding a pedestrian crossing the street, they
were parallel to the bike lane

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:21:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Ouch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:21:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Ouch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:22:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

/me hunts for Caltrain street connections on satellite images

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:22:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Avoid spraying in very windy, dusty conditions <yoz>

Yeah, those suck to cross at less than 45 degrees. Where was this?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:27:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Teddy Salad Explodes <nelhage>

Oh, wow, I totally missed the joke the first time I saw that. Nice.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:29:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is 10 degrees "almost parallel" or "almost perpendicular"?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:32:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Vox Pops <nelhage>

I can't decide if 4xx is correct here or not.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:32:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Totally is. Ignorance of the law is no excuse

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:34:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Molluscs – "Live" TV Documentary <nelhage>

Well, IIRC, 4xx is supposed to indicate some kind of error on the
client's part. I guess "requesting legally-restricted content" is
arguably such. Certainly 5xx doesn't seem more right.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:35:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Seems analogous to 410

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:35:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Gestures to Indicate Pauses in a Televised Talk <nelhage>

Yeah, on further reflection I am convinced it should be 4xx.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:35:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

<3 you uys

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:35:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

*guys

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:35:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Almost parallel

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:36:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for PETS! <geofft>

Almost perpendicular happens all the time in RWC

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:36:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Oh look, I tore my jeans in an awkward spot.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:36:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

*sigh* will go home and change once my leg stops hurting. owww.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:37:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  M1 Interchange Built by Characters from 'Paradise Lost' <nelhage>

Yeah, even hitting a sufficiently nasty bump/crack in the road
almost-parallel sucks -- that was what happened last time I wiped out
in Cambridge.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:37:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

htns: Townsend and ~8th, right outside Adobe

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:41:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ouch. glad you're OK, though!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:43:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

(Hm, maybe actually closer to Zynga than Adobe. Besides, then I get to
blame Zynga.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:44:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah. Okay, then I'm not very surprised it went poorly.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 15:44:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for FARMERS! <geofft>

Yeah...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 16:42:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

This hurts more than I expected...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 16:42:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go home, rest, ice, and elevate it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 16:43:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Is there swelling?
Ice is good.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 16:43:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

ice would be clever, hm.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 16:43:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

There's no swelling, as far as I can see. I'm on the train; I can ice
and elevate it once I get to work

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:50:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Near the 22nd street Caltrain station is a storage facility with a
warning sign saying "WARNING: CALIFORNIA MINI STORAGE HAS INSTALLED
INFRARED LAZER SECURITY BEAMS"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:50:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for HUNTERS! <geofft>

[sic, IIRC]

Class: geofft Instance: sipb.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:53:40 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: f . g) . h = f . (g . h <phurst>

But are they @bold(Major) Lazer beams?

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for MODELS! <geofft>

currentQueue
Returns the operation queue that launched the current operation.

Discussion
You can use this method from within a running operation object to get
a reference to the queue that started it. Calling this method from
outside the context of a running operation typically results in nil
being called.

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:54:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

TYPICALLY!???

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:56:25 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ouch.  Glad you walked away.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:57:12 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

PSA: You may be hurt worse than you originally think.

What part of your leg hit the ground / got hurt?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:59:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Yeah, my shin is actually not hurting much any more. It was hurting
worse than I thought on the train, but leaving a shaky train seems to
have helped?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 18:59:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

I think the entire lower left leg; I mostly fell straight forward. A
little skin on my knee seems to have come off, and I stopped myself
with my hand a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:02:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

No match for "KSPLORACLE.COM".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:02:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

don't tempt me

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:25:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"nil being called"?

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:25:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Hm, I think I mean "returned"

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:25:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

(typed that from another screen instead of copying-and-pasting)

Class: geofft Instance: developer.apple.com.q
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:27:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Also developer.apple.com.q:
"Secure 128-bit Hypertext Transfer Protocol (https://)"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:28:12 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  If you can use it normally and it doesn't hurt when you do, that's
good.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:29:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Well, it did hurt immediately after the crash, but there wasn't much
to be done that didn't involve walking to the station.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:35:52 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah.  Scrapes and bruises hurt.  The most important thing is to find
out when something's broken.  That may or may not hurt much (deceivingly
enough), but it generally does cause it to hurt when you push on it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:37:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I _suspect_ nothing's broken. We'll see

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:49:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

I bet these frozen peas are not going to be particularly edible

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:49:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Fortunately they were $2 so I can just not care, but still

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:49:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:49:49 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Enh, it's just some extra protein, right?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:49:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

...protein?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:50:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The blood that's soaked into them?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:50:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Oh, there's no blood :)

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:50:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I'm just worried about them getting mushy.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:50:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I see the starlight, I'm walking through that starlight; lay this body down <kdrinkwa>

are peas legumes? beans have protein.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:50:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: But when I returned he had gone to the Giver <kdrinkwa>

Make split-pea soup?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:51:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for MODELS! <geofft>

Alex: Using a bag of frozen peas on an injury is way better than
using ice. Apart from you being more likely to have them, they come in
a more convenient size and they contour better

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:51:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

ice tends to come in large blocky pieces.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:51:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Alioth: split-peas are kind of a different thing...

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:51:45 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

split peas are lentils

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:52:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Oh son don't be so venturesome, for England is the heart of oak <kdrinkwa>

Oh. TIL!

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:55:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

what? citation?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:57:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, they are?  *is horrified*

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 19:59:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

wikipedia: "Yellow split peas may sometimes be confused with the Indian toor
dal (split pigeon peas) or chana dal (split yellow gram, desi chickpeas)"

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:01:21 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

also "Yellow split peas are most often used to prepare dhal in Guyana,
Trinidad and the Fiji Islands."

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:02:25 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

That said, if there's one thing I've learned from kbyers's speciation
research, it's that taxonomy, especially on non-animals, is kind of lie.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:04:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

next you're going to say that chapati and tortillas are the same thing

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:05:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:05:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Well, usually my family just buys tortillas from the store...

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:06:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:07:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

anyway, split peas and lentils don't really seem to be the same thing.
lentils are Lens culinaris and split peas are Pisum sativum, for one.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:08:23 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Delurk and get a free postcard! <aatharuv>

Indians use the word "lentils" to describe a number of different legumes.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:08:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Then again, my family also makes upma out of Cream of Wheat, so.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:09:14 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fanboys to the left of me! Fanboys to the right of me! <aatharuv>

Then again, I've made attempted to make upma out of quinoa.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:09:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FARMERS! <geofft>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:10:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Warranty void if broken <yoz>

Quinoa tabbouleh is getting quite common these days.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:11:13 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Lady Gaga - VOIP <aatharuv>

It didn't work very well, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:11:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I keep on going to places that now have gluten free menus.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:12:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... which means tortillas instead of bread?

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:12:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

cream of wat

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:12:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

cream of wot

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:13:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The News with Richard Baker <nelhage>

cream of WoT

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:13:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

now I'm hungry for Ethiopian

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:15:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I misparsed that for a few moments and was very confused and slightly
worried.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:15:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status.d.prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:16:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvws5kqAf48

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:40:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for COUGARS! <geofft>

Blah, switching from one library to another because you like the
latter's API better is hard to do when you also want to do the switch
in an API-compatible way...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:40:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

I guess I should just give up on the latter constraint, but that means
I'll have a huge monolithic merge

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:41:24 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

mumble mumble another layer of indirection

Class: geofft Instance: overheard
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

VP Marketing: "Did I eat lunch today?"
secretary: "Yeah, you did"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard
Time: Tue Jun 12 20:55:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

I think I've found my people.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:05:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Wow, just paid attention to the lyrics for "Cat's in the Cradle".
That song is incredibly depressing/angsty.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:06:02 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Halley's Comet can be viewed orbiting Earth every seventy-six years. For the other seventy-five, it retreats to the heart of the sun, where it hibernates undisturbed. <asedeno>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:06:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

Yeah, it's very sad.

Class: geofft Instance: pandora
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:12:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

It is one of my favorite songs for it's lyrics.

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:18:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for HUNTERS! <geofft>

The fact that an unprivileged user can _mostly_ create things in C:\
confuses me so much

Class: geofft Instance: lizdenys
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:18:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for HUNTERS! <geofft>

I think I had the experience of.... being able to create C:\src, not
being able to move a directory into it with the command prompt, but
being able to drag the directory over via Explorer (without a UAC
prompt, of course)?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:35:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I'm sitting on gerrit.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Did I ... want to do something with that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:37:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That's...new. I think it was somewhere in our plot along with
gitorious?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:53:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Lectio divina, source code edition

Class: geofft Instance: lyrics
Time: Tue Jun 12 21:58:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Between who you are and who you could be
Between who how it is and how it should be
I dare you move

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:00:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Unity is actually super-shiny. I wish I liked it more

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:01:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Shiny things are not always useful.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:01:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I saw my Fedora 14 theme and went, "Damn, that is beautiful". Too bad
Fedora 14/16/17 ruined it all with Gnome 3.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:01:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(the last 14 should be a 15)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:05:45 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: If you are an alien, how come you sound like you're from the north? -- Lots of planets have a north! <eichin>

I had the interesting shininess experience of
using baconreader (android), then trying redditsync which people rave
about... and redditsync is outright *missing* things, like any way to
upvote an article from the comments page... but I keep being drawn to
it because it has a really nice font, and *slightly* nicer main page
layout (mostly with thumbnails)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:06:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Have you tried "reddit is fun"?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:06:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

What is with you people. I bet y'all use RES or something

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:07:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't reddit anymore, geofft. And I never used RES>

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:10:12 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Air Launched Weapons) <eichin>

haven't tried it yet, no.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:10:48 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Haven't these Russians ever heard of a moving-shield-wall offense? <eichin>

RES doesn't work in my browser :)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:11:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: another moon-shattering kaboom! http://www.nasa.gov/lcross <eichin>

(and I think trying to make it do so would be
enough to convince me I'm spending too much time on reddit :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:29:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did somebody ask for it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 12 22:31:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

No, I just stella'd compromised-7-laptop out of curiosity.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 00:42:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Wait, of all things, why am I _sleepy_

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:17:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

work automatically turning off the lights is not helping with the
sleepy. Nor is me sitting on a couch.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:18:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

go home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:19:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Can't do that until the next Caltrain. (Which is the last Caltrain,
anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:19:49 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Where are you now?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:19:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

work

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:20:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

(Redwood City)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:20:13 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Ah.  I just went by there for mexican food

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:20:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I guess it's not a bad place to get Mexican food.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:20:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Where are you? Palo Alto?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:21:32 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Yeah, by University

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:23:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Aaaand my live CD ejected. Well, there goes getting any more of that
work done today

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:24:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: she said this isn't who it would be... if it wasn't who it is <eichin>

the lights going out (and in our office, the A/C
turning off) is generally considered a hint, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:24:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Oooh, AC is brutal

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:25:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I can turn the lights on, that just involves walking. Speaking of
which, I wonder what I should do with these peas

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:36:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Whoo Palo Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:37:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Whoa, what is a drpm?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:38:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

drpm is a delta rpm

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:39:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's the minimal set of change since the RPM you have installed on
your system, and the update. It computes the real RPM on your local
system, then does the updates.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:40:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The yum plugin that manages this stuff is called "presto".

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:40:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

the drpms can be created by createrepo

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Why do I never see this on scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:41:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Am I just not paying attention?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:41:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

IIRC I disabled it?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:41:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Oh

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:42:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Nope, it's enabled.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:42:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's also possible mirrors.mit.edu doesn't have drpms

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

all right, -> station

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:42:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Er, dl.fedoraproject.org

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Well, that's... hopefully... where I'm getting my rpms from

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for PILOTS! <geofft>

Also, yay, syntax error in selinux-policy.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Oh geez am I using SELinux? Oh geez

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for BEER! <geofft>

That's a professional embarrassment

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Peopel will think I think it's useful :-(

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:43:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

dl.fedoraproject.org does indeed have drpms

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:44:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Should I feel guilty about not marking these peas as special? I guess
nobody really has the ability to... cook frozen peas... at work

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:44:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I sometimes see this on Scripts, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 01:45:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

So, dl.fedora appears to have drpms for only 1 update-depth. So if two
versions are released since you last ran updates, you don't get a DRPM

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 13 04:21:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

*sigh* Narnia is going on the reading list next

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:22:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

bluh

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:24:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

can't believe I'm still _deciding what language to use_

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:25:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Dude, you chose Haskell.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:25:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Well, I'm reconsidering that. For some reason.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:26:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You picked a strongly-typed language for a reason. Go back and finish
it.

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

always relevant:
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1414

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:28:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Well, I'm doing generated code anyway, so that makes that argument
slightly weaker

Class: geofft Instance: thesis
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:29:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I guess I could have the metaanguage be Python, and still typecheck
the resulting code...?

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:30:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:31:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Except now it's an LDR

Class: geofft Instance: thesis.d
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:31:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

nah, your thesis follows you along, always.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Bah

Class: geofft Instance: gnome
Time: Wed Jun 13 14:44:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for FARMERS! <geofft>

Quit being in the uncanny valley

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:04:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

From: "katherine.olson@hotmail.com" <katherine.olson@hotmail.com>

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:05:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why's that interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:06:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Because it sounds like catherio

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:07:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for MODELS! <geofft>

The worst part about dogfooding is there's no one to complain to other
than yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:07:41 2012 Host: wumpus.1ts.org
From: choose death <kcr>

I figure that those sorts of hits are just coincidence
from large numbers.

Class: geofft Instance: spamq
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Sure, I'm just amused.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:08:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

I'm not sure what I did but mouse clicks aren't working

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:08:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:08:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Sounds like your mouse driver traded places with mine :P
(Fedora finally fixed synaptics multitouch)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:08:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

imix

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:09:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

This is ... the physical button.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:09:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Anyway, got it working. Next question, why is our NetworkManager UI
confused

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:10:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Fortunately I have no burning desire to get rid of NM and use ifupdown

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

And my F17 box seems to have decided that the right response to
monitor hotplug is to make all of the monitors go away

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:30:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I hate computers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:30:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Hey I wonder what mine will do

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:31:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Computers are the worst.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:32:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Mine seems to think the right answer is "do nothing until I run
gnome-control-center"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:32:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I can't run anything I can't SEE anything

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

ssh is a thing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

I forgot to set it up.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Also, I have no idea what X-forwarding display-settings dialog boxes
will do

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for BEER! <geofft>

will it xrandr against my local machine?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think so, if you export DISPLAY correctly

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:33:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

X-Forwarding-Display-Settings: no

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:34:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

That seems like the wrong thing...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Hm, caps-lock key isn't working. I wonder if it actually crashed

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:35:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

yeah, Windows VM is unresponsive.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

... we have an M5HttpException? What was wrong with the normal one

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 16:37:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It wasn't web scale.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:00:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:00:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

why did my monitors disappear agaon

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:16:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

ፉፉፉፉፉፉፉፉፉፉፉፉ

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:17:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

okay, rebooting and _installing SSH first_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:31:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Whoa, usrmerge

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:37:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

What's this firewall crap?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:38:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Hmm?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:38:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Wait, you don't install _telnet_ by default? What is this, Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:39:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Did you do the minimal install?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:39:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

nc? cat with bash's /dev/tcp pseudo-devices?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:39:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for COUGARS! <geofft>

achernya: Um, I did systemctl enable/start sshd.service, but I'm still
getting no-route-to-host on ssh

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:40:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for TRAVELING! <geofft>

No, I installed from the live CD

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:40:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Result of iptables -L?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:49:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

[gthomas@hobgoblin vms]$ sudo iptables -L
Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination         
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere             state RELATED,ESTABLISHED
ACCEPT     icmp --  anywhere             anywhere            
ACCEPT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere            
ACCEPT     udp  --  anywhere             224.0.0.251          state NEW udp dpt:mdns
REJECT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere             reject-with icmp-host-prohibited

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination         
REJECT     all  --  anywhere             anywhere             reject-with icmp-host-prohibited

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target     prot opt source               destination        

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:49:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh, you see your problem, right? You have no pass-through for ssh

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Why isn't it doing that automatically?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

What's the right way to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because it's not supposed to?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Also, what's with that third rule?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Something got broken. It getse cancelled out by the REJECT

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

oh, on lo

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Or that

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:50:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

no, iptables does first-rule-to-match

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:54:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

system-config-firewall

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:54:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(-tui)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:55:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

s-c-f has a checkbox for ssh already.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:55:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

and it's checked

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:55:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Restart iptables.service?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:56:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Alright, forcing s-c-f gave me a -p tcp --dport ssh -j ACCEPT, but
took away my -p udp --dport 5353 -d 224.0.0.251 -j ACCEPT, which...
why did I have that?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 17:57:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

mdns, meh?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 18:03:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Also, PUPPY

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 18:03:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

It's like... the size of a cat

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 18:16:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

bluh, SELinux

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:44:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

whyyyyyy do none of my computers work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:45:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

because they are $ethnic_group

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:45:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I can't even say "ugh, computers" because they're all VMs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:45:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I'm gonna go with "ugh, Platonic ideal of computers"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:45:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Andrew: Um?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 13 19:46:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Andrew's being higher-order racist, just ignore him

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:21:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Oh. I'm using nouveau.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:21:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Guys, freedom is really not a feature

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:22:28 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that nymphs always fall for rock'n'roll, try it!
 <rnjacobs>

The freedom to be told how you should use your computer :p

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:23:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

rpmfusion

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:24:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

What, what's wrong with
http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
?

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:30:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

First prefrosh on zephyr! It's like first snow, but less exciting.

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:32:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think he's just an RSI kid.

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:32:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Aw.

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

(Have we had any prefrosh yet?)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:32:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

rpmfusion has it packaged

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:33:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(yum install kmod-nvidia)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:33:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Is this just yum install akmod-nvidia, or do I need to poke my initrd
or blacklist nouveau or something?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:33:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Don't do akmod unless you're desperate. You may have to blacklist
nouveau

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:33:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Wait, really? Why isn't it the obviously right answer?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

kmod is precompiled

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

akmod is dkms

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

akmod may fail to compile

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

And kmod may fail to exist, right?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

This is the same reason dkms is preferable in general?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:34:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But then you'll know because yum will yell

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:35:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I've had poor luck with akmod-nvidia

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:39:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I dunno. This seems really late to be getting oru first prefrosh.
Don't they usually show up shortly after getting their accounts?

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:45:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm still disappointed I didn't try to zephyr when I first got my
account.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:45:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

I like how you can tell that a certain Web-Page was originally written
by a German-Speaker

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:49:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Vangelis – West Across The Ocean Sea
 <rnjacobs>

„ I don’t know what you're talking about. ”

Class: geofft Instance: message
Time: Wed Jun 13 21:49:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Vangelis – West Across The Ocean Sea
 <rnjacobs>

...imix

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Jun 13 22:12:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I'm starting to recognize the X protocol in strace. Should I feel
ashamed of myself?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 13 22:47:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for PETS! <geofft>

Decided to poke around at nouveau, ended up with this:

[19499.091831] detected fb_set_par error, error code: -16
[19593.228106] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: Failed to idle channel 2.
[19593.246976] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - TRAP_DISPATCH (unknown 0x00000004)
[19593.246981] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ILLEGAL_MTHD ILLEGAL_CLASS
[19593.246990] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ch 128 (0x0001730000) subc 2 class 0x0000 mthd 0x0248 data 0x00000b90
[19593.247003] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: VM: trapped write at 0x0020019024 on ch 128 [0x00001730] PFIFO/PFIFO_READ/SEMAPHORE reason: PAGE_NOT_PRESENT
[19593.247016] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ILLEGAL_MTHD ILLEGAL_CLASS
[19593.247024] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ch 128 (0x0001730000) subc 2 class 0x0000 mthd 0x024c data 0x0000041a
[19593.247033] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ILLEGAL_MTHD ILLEGAL_CLASS
[19593.247040] [drm] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: PGRAPH - ch 128 (0x0001730000) subc 2 class 0x0000 mthd 0x0250 data 0x00000000

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:52:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for PETS! <geofft>

Woah, SF minimum wage is $10.24?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:53:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

I have twice spent a summer working for Jeff Arnold for less than
that! I guess cost of living is more expensive in SF than Cambridge,
but stll

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:53:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

"Here's a nickle kid, get yourself a real job"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:54:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for FARMERS! <geofft>

I mean, if someone like Jeff Arnold is unable to afford to pay someone
like me that wage, of _course_ there's unemployment for people with
less earning power

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:58:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Wasn't the CSAIL UROP wage higher than that?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:59:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

No, it was $10 even, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 13:59:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Raised to $14 in the fall, but none of us did anything in the fall

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:02:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

OK.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:33:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Anyone want a copy of "Barely Legal Preteen MILFs 3: Sexy Gay Men"?
It's at the top of the Amazon bestseller list, that makes it socially
acceptable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:39:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:40:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: DUDOO (n.) The most deformed potato in any given collection of potatoes. <ahailes>

:D

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:40:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

I have a wmv if you want me to email you a copy!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:40:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ARDSLIGNISH (adj.) Adjective which describes the behaviour of Sellotape when you are tired. <ahailes>

doesn't really sound like my kink.  Got anything else?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:41:11 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

It's not parseable enough to be a kink

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:44:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

What, unparseable gibberish can't be a kink?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:44:39 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

... point

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 14:50:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Maybe it's just trying to hit a wide audience. Like, some young kids,
some middle-aged gay men. etc...

Class: geofft Instance: still-awesome
Time: Thu Jun 14 15:52:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for PANDAS! <geofft>

Reed-Solomon = Shamir's secret-sharing

Class: geofft Instance: still-awesome
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:07:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

==

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:08:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

... did you just reboot?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:09:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

that last zsig sounds like a terrible terrible idea.  "I'm surprised
no one has done it yet.  If they have, I don't want to know about it"

Class: geofft Instance: still-awesome
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:11:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I'm reading a paper that's using Reed-Solomon primarily for its
error-correction properties, but it looks like the secret-sharing
properties are awfully convenient

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:31:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

The default IE home page (Bing) links to an MSN CareerBuilder article
which says that companies are hiring (among other things) Linux
system administrators, and recommends it

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:31:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for BEER! <geofft>

Er, not bing. www.msn.com

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:33:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Is there a way to check the signing key on rpmfusion?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:33:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh, I think they publish on their site with https?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

not really

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

http://rpmfusion.org/keys

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Why do they have a different key for every release?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That's what Fedora does

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for SURGEONS! <geofft>

And none of those keys are signed with a master key?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:34:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

(Or signed by anyone at all)

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:35:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think the actual Fedora keys are signed? I don't remember

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:36:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeah, it looks like the Fedora key is signed by a RedHat employee.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Who's presumably in the strong set.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:36:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Doctor <nelhage>

Red Hat, who trusts them.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:36:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

This looks like rpmfusion sucks at life

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

"Oracle"

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:39:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

..apparently there's a 7-hop path between me and the person signing
the Fedora key. And it goes through a revoked person. Turns out I
don't trust Fedora, guys.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:45:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

That's the only path?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 16:46:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's the shortest path found, if sigtrace is correct

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 17:12:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

bah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 17:12:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I'd have more patience for our software sucking if it were the part
of our software I'm responsible for or even know anything about

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Thu Jun 14 17:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

sigtrace prints only one path, but there’s no reason to expect that
the shortest path is unique.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 14 17:54:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I don't actually recall having pizza when I was in Chicago

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:39:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The idea that a minimum wage causes unemployment (of low-skilled workers)
is very intuitively appealing from an Econ 101 standpoint, but it turns
out the evidence is actually against it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:42:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

There was a classic study by Card and Krueger in the early '90s:
  http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/min_wage.htm
that took a bunch of then-recent changes in various minimum wages and
compared what happened to labor markets that were and weren't affected.
Generally, employment actually *rose* with minimum wage increases.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:43:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, that study. I read about it 14.03.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:44:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What did they say about it?

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:44:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I can't complain.  -- What, did you lose that part of the brain in an accident? <eichin>

I recently saw that disparaged on the same grounds - it's
the classic study, and hasn't been reproduced.  But I don't know the
space particularly...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:44:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you google [minimum wage unemployment], you actually find a lot of
papers with similar conclusions.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:46:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Not a whole lot --- I guess not so much "about it" as "read it". The
prof certainly didn't seem to make a particular point of "this study
sucked," for example.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:49:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, there are certainly people who disparage it -- basically inevitable
for a study that runs against so many people's intuition and their
political preferences -- but my sense is that with all the other studies
that have been done, most economists agree with the bottom line that
minimum-wage laws are about neutral on employment, and can be slightly
positive as easily as slightly negative.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:50:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... we had a ton of overdue books from the Library of Alexandria... <eichin>

I'd certainly buy that "noone's actually changing the
amounts enough to have any impact that isn't dwarfed by ~everything else" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:52:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Well, that may also be true, but I think it's actually more than that --
even when people do clever things to isolate the effect of this change
against all the other variables (e.g. comparing neighboring jurisdictions
before and after one of them changes the law), they often find a small
positive impact on employment / negative on unemployment.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:55:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't think there's a consensus explanation for that.  In at least some
settings, economists suggest that the higher wages raise demand, which
raises labor demand.  E.g. the paper linked and excerpted here:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/11/18/does-raising-minimum-wage-increase-unemployment/

Of course that explanation only works for products that are consumed
locally, but that's true for many low-wage jobs.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:56:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Here's a briefing paper (more Washington-directed, less academic) from
2004, reviewing evidence from a number of historical changes in minimum
wage:
  http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp150/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:57:04 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: f . g) . h = f . (g . h <phurst>

"but price, I'd expect you to know all about economics"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 18:57:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think that briefing paper comes from the period when my dad was the
research director of that think tank.  Though this paper is bylined
someone else.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jun 14 19:00:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The theory section ("Conflicting theories of the effect of minimum wage
increases") is actually pretty good for suggesting explanations of why
the Econ 101 intuition is wrong here.

Class: geofft Instance: stackoverflow.answer.codeq
Time: Thu Jun 14 20:40:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

/* pretty sure i'm leaking here, leave me alone... i just happen to
leak sometimes */

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:03:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

wtf IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:17:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

arghblah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:18:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Can I tell my customer "I'm sorry, all my computers hate me"?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:26:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff545499.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:27:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for PILOTS! <geofft>

If you set a certain registry setting, Ctrl-Scroll Lock-Scroll Lock
manually triggers a bugcheck

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:27:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Frontiers of Medicine – Penguins <nelhage>

reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Jun 14 21:28:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Yup. Seems useful.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:36:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

"Dude," Wedge said turning slowly towards Biggs, "You know what this
 means, my platonic hetero black mage life partner, kupo?"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:36:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

There is a lot of offensive stuff in this game. 
[...]
-- Songs by The Lonely Island

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:36:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

-- "a vampire's anus is present but non-working. like a network card
   without the appropriate driver."


ahahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:37:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

I-- wat.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:43:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Are you on assassins-guild?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:44:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

No

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:44:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Here, forwarded.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:45:01 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

... oh dear.  This is not how one introduces people to the Guild.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Why not???

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:45:34 2012 Host: OZOK-THE-DESTROYER.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

This is not a representative game ;)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:45:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Well, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:50:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

*mindsplodes*

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Fri Jun 15 00:50:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

ha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:10:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

svn, why are you incompetent

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:10:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

$ svn diff -cHEAD
svn: Non-numeric change argument (HEAD) given to -c

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:13:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Why aren't you using git-svn?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:14:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Because it would choke on the size of this repository

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:15:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

We have tons of build products versioned in the repo (and we need them
as build-deps), and rewriting our build process from scratch is a
slightly big yak.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:15:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

One I fully intend to shave one day, but not right now.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:15:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ugh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:16:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How big would your repo be?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:16:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, is git-svn any less scalable than git-p4?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:17:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I recently learned that Facebook keeps all their code in one giant Git
repo.  Which... they are beginning to find unsatisfying.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:17:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: UID="ADMIN" PASS="DEFAULT" CMD="sleep, 600sec, noprompt, fnord" <eichin>

yeah, svn *handles* big-and-dumb-and-enterprisey in ways that git entirely fails to.
(the git-fanatics at work keep failing to pony up the effort to break things
 down into git-manageable chunks...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:17:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Museum of Fine Arts. <stum>

they also used to live edit the site on one server, and if it didn't
fall over, scp it to all the other ones.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:18:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Who, Facebook?  Can't say that surprises me. =)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:18:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: St. Paul Street. <stum>

yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:18:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But see, that's an example of Moving Fast and Breaking Things.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:18:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Using Git when the repo is gigantic sounds like a way to Move Slow,
which is not so much of a Facebook slogan.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:19:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: When all you have is a hammer, you cease to have a hammer. <eichin>

... and of *course* that's been memified...
 http://www.simplybastow.com/tag/motivation/  (third one down)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:20:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Military Training and Simulation Systems) <eichin>

mmm, if you can *fit* the thing, it's only slow for
new setups, churn-effort should still be proportional to size-of-churn
rather than size-of-repo...

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:20:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

IIRC the posters in the Facebook offices actually are reminiscent in
their font and layout of the Keep Calm poster.  But I don't remember any
crown at the top.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:21:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

True mostly, but 'git status' and 'git commit -a' are still proportional
to repo size.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:22:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also, size-of-churn scales with size-of-eng-team, so that's got to be
big for Facebook.  Subversion lets you mostly ignore churn that isn't
too closely related to you.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:22:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Well... everyone likes cake. <eichin>

ah, right (I was just thinking upll)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:22:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It was an uncivilized planet... it probably wasn't even on the Net. -- Vernor Vinge <eichin>

*pull

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:23:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

update-index --assume-unchanged

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:24:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

adehnert: Well, our current repo is, like, four or five gigabytes? And
there's a good amount of churn for our binary dependencies, so git
would want to keep that locally

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:25:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

kaduk: Yeah, things that I wouldn't want to propose to educate Facebook's
1000 or so PHP-writing engineers to use all the time: that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:25:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

If you remember broder musing about git-annex on his class, it's
because it was a yak _he_ fully intended to shave one day and never
got around to. It might work; I haven't tried it. Maybe I'll set up
an import tomorrow night and see if it's done by Monday morning, but
even so, it's not going to look the way I want at all, and being able
to iterate on git-svn imports is kinda nice

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:27:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

price: yeah, my coworkers (former?) are definitely not using that.
"Even though I documented it."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:27:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for SURGEONS! <geofft>

price: I think it mostly scales with number of products, and we have
exactly two products: server and client. (BareMetal is built out of
the same source tree as the Windows and Mac stuff, it just has some
modules not used there, just as Windows and Mac have modules not used
on Linux. And the guest-side and host-side stuff is also part of that
same tree.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:28:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Sorry, what scales with number of products?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:29:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

The amount of churn, if you mean how much my local repo changes
because other people do things.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:30:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hm.  My assumption is that each engineer produces roughly a constant rate
of changes, so if you have N of them you have Theta(N) changes.  How does
that break down for you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:32:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is that 4--5GB svn repo or svn checkout?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:32:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Right. But I don't entirely get to only be affected by the subset
that's closely related to me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:32:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PANDAS! <geofft>

checkout.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:32:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Oh, I lied.
salmon-of-wisdom:~ gthomas$ du -sh src/player
15G     src/player

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:33:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, okay. So plausibly bigger than my work repo...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:33:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

"It's definitionally bigger than your work repo, one of the binary
products we check in is VMware Player"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:34:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uhh...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:34:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

My work repo has a bunch of other stuff that isn't just VMware player.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:34:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Sure, hence the snark quotes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:34:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

"Like workstation."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:34:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What I'm saying is that the total churn in the repo is Theta(#
engineers); that with Git you have to deal with all of that; and that
with Subversion you get to deal with only the subtrees you find it
necessary to 'svn up'.

Which grows more like the number of engineers on your own subproject
times some connectedness factor that's probably like log(# engineers).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:35:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, I wonder if my work repo has, say, vCenter. It definitely has
ESX (in fact, most of the people I work with I get the vague sense
care more about ESX).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:36:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft: I'm not actually finding previous zephyr discussion of
git-annex.  What was (your interpretation of) broder's plan with it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:37:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Stick the large binary artifacts there, basically.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:38:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, I see, it's to make MokaFive use it rather than to do anything to
git-annex upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:39:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:40:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Will you still need all the files in each checkout?  If so, I'm missing
how you gain.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:40:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

You won't need the history of the binary crap, since you're generally
only building the latest version (or maybe trunk and the latest
release branch, or something)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:41:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

But having the history of the actual code is useful, and that lives in
git proper, not git-annex.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:41:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right, so clones are faster.

Is there any benefit after you've cloned?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:42:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Less disk space usage :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:42:14 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess maybe 15G is big enough that it's worth optimizing that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:42:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Realize that those 15G probably turn over completely once per release
cycle, which is like once per 2-3 months

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

So even a year of history is more than the entire disk space on my
laptop, let alone free space on the Linux partition.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That 15G is including the history, right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

No, that's du -sh of a SVN checkout.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, haha, right.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

which I guess implies it's actually closer to 8, but whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:43:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yikes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:44:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, I agree, you need this in order to use Git.  Or git-svn.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:46:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Right. I have a git-svn checkout of just the src/ subdirectory, but
it's not everything I want (because there are relevant code things
elsewhere, like in the build automation, e.g. influencing packaging),
and I end up not using it that much.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:46:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I do use my git-svn checkout of the server component, which uses Maven
for tracking the binary crap (.jars, either unmodified from upstream
or mokified).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:46:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

How much would everyone working on this codebase need to end up knowing
about git-annex?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 01:48:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

I have no idea, I don't know anything about git-annex.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 03:42:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  A glance at docs suggested they'd have to use 'git annex' commands
to get the new versions of files, or to upload new ones themselves.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 03:45:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which you could try ameliorating with some kind of wrapper script if that
doesn't sound like fun.  After all, git + a good wrapper script is
probably no harder to get people to use than just git.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 03:59:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Sure. That's no more onerous than, say, git submodule sync && git
submodule update, which we do need to do for our one project that
lives in git (our iOS app).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 03:59:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

That said I kinda want to make us not use submodules any more...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 04:08:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I like the coinage Nelson quoted the other day: "sobmodules".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 15 12:22:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Do I want to be reading Phoronix?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 15 12:22:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I hope the answer is no, but I fear the answer is yes.

Class: geofft Instance: else.help
Time: Fri Jun 15 13:04:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

http://www.samba.org/samba/security/CVE-2010-0728.html

Okay this CVE is just _dumb_

Class: geofft Instance: else.help Opcode: auto
Time: Fri Jun 15 13:04:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2010-0728 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

CVE ticket CVE-2010-0728: 
smbd in Samba 3.3.11, 3.4.6, and 3.5.0, when libcap support is
enabled, runs with the CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE capability, which allows
remote authenticated users to bypass intended file permissions via
standard filesystem operations with any client.

Class: geofft Instance: else.help
Time: Fri Jun 15 13:05:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...did they dropprivs but not dropcaps?

Class: geofft Instance: else.help
Time: Fri Jun 15 13:05:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 15 13:52:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

.... why am I getting compiler errors

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jun 15 14:32:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Wow, this article is full of the nostalgia
http://partnerweb.vmware.com/GOSIG/MSDOS_6_22_and_Windows_3_1x.html

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jun 15 14:46:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

http://nation.foxnews.com/illegal-immigration/2012/06/15/obama-administration-bypasses-congress-give-immunity-stop-deporting-younger-illegals
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/06/15/obama-adminstration-to-stop-deporting-young-immigrants/

Class: geofft Instance: else.help
Time: Fri Jun 15 15:07:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Err, the manpages say that CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE is automatically cleared
when you setfsuid?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun 15 19:56:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

You can change your monitor resolution to duplex collated? What.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun 15 19:56:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that NetHack bugs are Seldon planned.
 <rnjacobs>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Jun 15 19:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for BARISTAS! <geofft>

ChangeDisplaySettings() takes a DEVMODE
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd183411%28v=VS.85%29.aspx

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 13:40:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

It's annoying that so much of Haskell "documentation" is in the form
of research papers.

Haskell is by no means the only offender, but possibly the worst.

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 13:40:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

(And those research papers are some form of NC-ND, usually, and also
not copyrighted by the authors so they're not relicensable)

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:36:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Wait, does C++ give you full dependent types using template
metaprogramming? Can you do, for instance, template <class T, int a>
class vector, with vector<T, a+b> operator+(vector<T, a>, vector<T,
b>)?

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:39:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Also, dependent types make tons of sense in terms of templates. Not
sure why I didn't think about this before. (And I think as soon as I
think about the difference between C++ templates and Java generics in
terms of dependent types, I'll actually remember what it is once and
for all...)

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:39:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm pretty sure you can't do that.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:47:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

That should work just fine, if I'm understanding what you're doing.
You probably need to prefix the function with template <int a, int b>
or something so it knows what a and b are.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:49:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

$ cat foo.cc
#include <stdio.h>

template <int a>
struct Foo {
    int value() { return a; }
};

template <int a, int b>
Foo<a + b> addFoos(Foo<a>, Foo<b>) {
    return Foo<a + b>();
}

int main() {
    printf("%d\n", addFoos(Foo<3>(), Foo<5>()).value());
    return 0;
}
$ g++ foo.cc && ./a.out 
8

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:50:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is the summation done at compile time?

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:51:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Albatross <nelhage>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:52:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The disassembly is actually hilarious. There are callq's to function
that instantly ret

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:52:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But, of course -O3 fixes that.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:52:42 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Yeah, I was going to say....

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:53:09 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I wonder how well clang++ handles it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:55:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I would hope it also inlines it all. As far as the optimizer sees,
this is like you made three classes: Foo3, Foo5, and Foo8. It should
be able to inline Foo8::value easily and then kill off the
Foo3/Foo5/Foo8 temporaries.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:56:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

After templates have actually been instantiated and names all bound,
it doesn't really matter whether things came from templates or not.
They are things and they have names, like anything else.

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:56:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Is this a complaint against the format, or the license?

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:58:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, if the license was BY-SA, it seems like the format might get improved too.

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:58:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

The license. I don't care about the format so much as the inability
to, say, copy a paper onto HaskellWiki and edit all the module names,
examples, etc. to match what actually got into GHC and what best
practices are.

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 14:59:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

I'm fine with people turning the result back into a two-column paper,
and may even vaguely prefer that format for some uses

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:01:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

So, I wonder, if you have a bunch of chronologically ordered versions of
a document, and you assign copyright to the latest version, what is the
status of the earlier versions?

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:01:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

I know a lot of people cheese this by posting pre-prints. Does this mean
that I can then post-facto relicense my preprint?

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Oh, right, compile-time, so I bet you can't do
int x;
cin >> x;
vector<string, x> v;

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:03:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I _think_ the legal document you sign when you hand over copyright to
ElsevIEEEr more explicitly says no, and it's not just the current
version

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:03:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

(Hm, doesn't have the same ring as MAFIAA.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:04:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, that one doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:06:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

C++ templates are macros that do pattern matching on types.

Class: geofft Instance: free-software-needs-free-documentation
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:06:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Yeah, this situation sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:09:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I guess macros isn't that great of a word? I'd associate macros with
something that doesn't actually evalute a+b in that thing earlier.
*shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:50:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=what+you+gonna+do+with+all+that+junk

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 16 15:57:17 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+many+roads+must+a+man+walk+down

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 16 16:01:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BRYMBO (n.) The single unappetising bun left in a baker's shop after four p.m. <ahailes>

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+many+licks+to+get+to+the+center+of+a+tootsie+pop

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 17:55:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That kind of programming is hilarious and can be taken pretty far.  The
IOI didn't think to impose a time limit on compilation, until one
contestant submitted a program that took hours to compile and then spat
out answers instantly when run.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 17:55:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

15:01 would be dependent types.  14:36 isn’t.

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 17:56:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(ISTR that program didn't actually work -- you can imagine it was tough
to test -- so that nobody ever actually took advantage of that loophole.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.stark
Time: Sat Jun 16 17:57:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

andersk: Yeah, I'm referring to the things you can actually do in C++.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:12:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

You know, the ASA's supposed to give us an Athena locker...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:12:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Your zsig. Was that random or intentional.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Random.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:13:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Although it occurs to me that in seriousness I vaguely want SIPB to
get an iPhone dev account.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:13:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lapentab>

++

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:14:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

(If I get around to writing like a zephyr app or something, it seems
wrong to publish that through work. But I'm probably not going to get
around to it)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:15:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:16:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Every student group gets an Athena locker, right?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:18:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"You have one." (or more) --- /afs/athena/contrib/sipb/, /mit/sipb/, ...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:19:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

But none in /afs/athena/activity/s/sipb!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:19:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

/afs/athena/contrib/sipb is a good retort, though. :)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:19:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, well, you blew it on getting sipb-iap.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 16 20:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Huh, that's not in the SIPB cell? weeeird.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:13:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

I can't decide whether I like them...

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:13:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

It's convenient to not have to carry around bulky (and damageable)
books in my backpack, but being unable to let someone borrow a book,
or use it if this device becomes obsolete, or something is annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:14:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The unable to let someone borrow a book thing is super annoying, but
the not having to carry around giant book bricks is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:16:06 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "Ideas are more powerful than guns.  We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas."             -- Joseph Stalin <eichin>

amazon has a *very limited* borrowing-like thing,
which maybe they'll make real someday, but yeah, that's a downside.
(backed up highlights/notes is a real win though)

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:16:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Right. I have my iPad all the time (because I need it for work), so I
find myself reading more now. I guess it's not too hard to just
decide to put a book in my backpack, though

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:16:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for PETS! <geofft>

I don't highlight or take notes, so meh.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:21:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for BEER! <geofft>

Anyway, the current "should I buy a hard copy or not" target is
Narnia, which I suspect is common enough that wanting to let people
borrow it isn't particularly interesting.

Maybe I should just ask my class if I can borrow it from someone else
in the area? Or maybe I should just get a library card.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:58:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

US News: How would you describe your legacy?
Dukakis: If I had beaten the old man, we'd never heard of the kid,
and we'd be in a lot better shape these days. So it's all my fault.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Jun 18 00:59:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A nymph will be very pleased if you call her by her real name:  Lorelei.
 <rnjacobs>

Ow.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:52:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for BEER! <geofft>

... our Windows build logs are _38 megabytes_? How do you produce that
much text??

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:52:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I once had an entire hard drive that big!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:52:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

msvc is VERBOSE.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:53:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The amount of flags you have to pass to get a reasonable binary is
insane, and they're all "human readable".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:53:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for MODELS! <geofft>

(where by "once" I mean "when I was 3", and by "I had" I mean
something slightly different.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:53:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I wouldn't advise playing catch with a giant.
 <rnjacobs>

I think the first two HDDs "I" had were 10 and 40MB.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:55:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for BEER! <geofft>

Oh, I guess, first off, buildbot is HTML-encoding this, and second
off, our code is full of dumb things like "warning C4267:
&#39;argument&#39; : conversion from &#39;size_t&#39; to
&#39;unsigned int&#39;, possible loss of data"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 01:57:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Blah, and you're not even including the actual build commands you run?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wut
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Apparently the HUD writes a copy of the image it's trying to render in
/tmp/wut.png

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wut
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:01:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

World-readable, naturally.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wut
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:01:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

HUD is...the thing that's part of Unity?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.wut
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:01:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Yeah. It's the thing that lets you type in partial menu commands when
you hit Alt

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:10:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

svn infuriates me.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:27:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for SURGEONS! <geofft>

The amount of Mountain Dew my household (I think, actually, just me
and one housemate) can consume in a weekend is a little worrisome.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:27:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

As is the amount of Mountain Dew I can drink and still feel totally
sleepy.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:29:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If you drink enough Mountain Dew habitually, that amount is
basically ∞

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:29:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I don't, actually, these days.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:30:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for BEER! <geofft>

And it's somewhat succeeding in keeping me awake, just not in making
me _feel_ less sleepy.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

hives (allergy)
hives (registry)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:31:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Have you tried copious amounts of caffiene, and less so copious
amounts of sugar?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:31:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for TWINKIES! <geofft>

I'm not actually trying to stay awake here...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:31:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

I just find Mountain Dew tastier than water <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:32:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...have you tried going to the supermarket and buying those little
water-flavoring liquids/packets...?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:32:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Hey, quit giving me technical solutions to addiction problems

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:32:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: North Station. <stum>

have you tried sleeping?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:33:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Hey, quit giving me good ideas

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:33:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> technical solutions to addiction problems
better than a non-solution.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:36:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Reading scrolls after drinking booze can give confusing results.
 <rnjacobs>

How about a 7% solution?

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:41:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] Well, you *can* find non-DRM'd copies of lots of books with a bit of
effort. It definitely still has downsides, though.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:41:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> I should just get a library card.

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: ebooks
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:42:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I am drowning in the lowlands <kdrinkwa>

Library cards are a very, very good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:42:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> How do you produce that much text??

You realize that scripts semi-routinely has issues with users
producing a couple orders of magnitude more logs than that...?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:43:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> I just find Mountain Dew tastier than water <_< >_>

Dude, learn to like milk or tea or something.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:44:19 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Flavored seltzer water is a popular choice.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:46:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Someone's identity disk lies here.
 <rnjacobs>

tea++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:56:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Milk is a bit too heavy for me to drink it casually. And I'm
sufficiently from the South that tea isn't better than Mountain Dw on
sugar content. Possibly worse.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:56:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for BEER! <geofft>

But those are recurring requests. Ideally we only compile everything
once...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:57:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Boylston. No smoking, please. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

sweet tea with real sugar is going to be better than mountain dew with
HFCS

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:57:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, as in, you put more sugar in your tea than Mountain Dew has?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:57:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chiswick Road. The destination of this train is: Boston College. <stum>

alex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_tea

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:57:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

True

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:58:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

But it's not clearly better than Mexicoke / Mexipepsi :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:58:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Blandford Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i also think "tea + water + sugar" is better than "water + sugar +
rando chemicals"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:58:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What kind of milk have you dried? (Err, what do you mean by heavy?
Like, logistics of bringing it home, or it tastes too heavy in some
way?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 02:59:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Sucrose is not better than HFCS, sorry to say.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:00:02 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Thank you for sending me a copy of your book;
I'll waste no time reading it. - Moses Hadas
 <rnjacobs>

@i{but} the amount of sugar in most soda is still probably higher than sweet tea.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:00:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

I think you underestimate my capacity for drinking sugar

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:01:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

adehnert: I mean I'd basically be too full if I consumed milk as much
as I consume soda. It does have protein and things...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:01:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Heath Street/VA Medical Center. <stum>

there's also this thing called water :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:01:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: You'll ramble back someday <kdrinkwa>

At one point, I looked at a can of Canada Dry for the grams of sugar
indicated, and weighed out that much granulated sugar. It... was about
what kcr puts in a large mug of tea.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:02:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: How shall I send thee? <kdrinkwa>

(or did, when his sweetener of choice was granulated sugar)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:02:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: But when I returned he had gone to the Giver <kdrinkwa>

Milk in quantity is basically food.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:02:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Arlington. The destination of this train is: Lechmere. <stum>

rnjacobs: i guess i didn't realize that the research is sort of
pointing to no difference. that's definitely not the conventional
wisdom.

though i am starting to be able to taste HFCS, and i don't like it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:04:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Now I really want sweet tea

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:04:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Those who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
 <rnjacobs>

It turns out that sucrose and invert sugar, and HFCS is basically invert
sugar, are basically equivalent as far as your body's concerned. The health
problems with sugar have nothing to do with what's in it other than "not fiber"

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:05:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Or, like, kind of sweet tea. I can't actually stomach full-on
Southern-style sweet tea)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:05:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Err, s/dried/tried/)

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:07:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: You're not paranoid enough.
 <rnjacobs>

It is perhaps ironic that normal low-fructose corn syrup might actually be
better for you than sugar (since its glucose:fructose ratio is substantially
higher)

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:12:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I am drowning in the lowlands <kdrinkwa>

That being the Karo stuff you get at the store?

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:12:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:12:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

still not great, mind you.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:16:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: In smiling Bacchus' joys I'll roll <kdrinkwa>

Do you have thoughts on stevia?

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:17:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Bring me my arrows of desire <kdrinkwa>

(I've been wondering if it's any better than artificial sweeteners, or
if it's just "natural" but still screws with your appetite in the same
way.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:20:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Can I buy HFCS at the store?

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:22:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I can't really find it on amazon.com or walmart.com, and I've never
recalled seeing it. I find this at least a little bit odd, since it
seems like it would not be a terrible idea to, say, put HFCS in my
tea instead of sugar. (I think about half the commercially-produced
sweet tea I drink is sweetened with HFCS)

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:23:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

My sister's the one who's played with it; it has a distinct anisey flavor
especially if you use too much. I'm a little worried about the fact that the
sweetener itself is a glycoside, since those are usually "get this thing out
of me" carriers, but haven't done specific research.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:23:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

HFCS really is basically invert sugar.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:26:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

AFAICT, the "best" solution, if you can't wean yourself off refined sugar, is
either
- use pure fructose. It's as bad for you as ethanol, but is 170% as sweet as
ordinary table sugar and 150% as sweet as invert sugar/HFCS.
- use pure glucose. You'll get a horrible sugar rush, but it mostly won't be
converted to fat. It's only 70% as sweet as table sugar though, and ~60% as
sweet as invert sugar/HFCS

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:26:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A can of Spam Lite.
 <rnjacobs>

Those %ages are per calorie.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:37:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's "invert sugar"?

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:37:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, what's table sugar made of?

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:38:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

table sugar is sucrose aka dextrose.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:38:52 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that NetHack is just a computer game.
 <rnjacobs>

it's one part glucose, one part fructose, attached by having taken two -OH
groups and pulling away a water.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:39:21 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It is not always a good idea to whistle for your dog.
 <rnjacobs>

Invert sugar is made by putting sucrose in water and heating until the two
monosaccarides take their water back.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:40:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that no one really subscribes to rec.games.roguelike.nethack.
 <rnjacobs>

The 1:1 ratio of separated fructose and glucose is about 120% as sweet as when
they're attached.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 03:41:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Ed McMahon stands here, lost in thought. Seeing you, he bellows, "YES SIR!"
 <rnjacobs>

It's called invert sugar because if you have a pipe of sugar water and shine
polarized light through it, sucrose rotates the polarization of the light by N
degrees, and invert sugar rotates it by -N degrees.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 05:55:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

[stark] 

dextrose is right-handed glucose.  It's not sucrose.

I started sweatening my tea with glucose a few months ago.  I actually find
that I get much more of a sugar rush from things containing fructose.

Class: geofft Instance: personal.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 05:55:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

*sweetening

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:32:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for FARMERS! <geofft>

I think the right response to keeping growing competitors is not to be
depressed about our hopes but to be excited about being in a market
people clearly care about

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

"Hall of Justice" is the name of a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:41:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Like, in the real world?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:42:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Isn't that where the Super Friends hang out?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:43:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Also, work would be so much more exciting if it weren't full of dumb
problems. Apparently our about dialog box broke. Of all things.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:43:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

(And this is my highest-priority ticket because if you can't see the
version number you can't report any other tickets usefully)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:44:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

-> Caltrain -> work

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Mon Jun 18 14:45:52 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Unconnected node. <aatharuv>

Yes, it's the non-federal court house.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Mon Jun 18 15:24:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Hall of Justice is the name of places in a fair number of European
cities.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Jun 18 15:28:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Huh, nontrivial cnstruction just before San Bruno. Are they doing
something with high-speed rail? Or is this bart?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Jun 18 15:29:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

HSR is years away from constructing anything.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Mon Jun 18 15:30:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

if you guys get HSR before the NE corridor, I will be so sad. "It
actually would be much more useful here :)"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 15:30:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Really? Really? Our function to load the bootstrap file is
_boot_the_strap()?

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Jun 18 16:18:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Ugh, Exchange bugs

Class: geofft Instance: alpine
Time: Mon Jun 18 16:19:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PETS! <geofft>

I'd usually be excited to debug you, but I'm busy

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:16:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Ooh, export GREP_OPTIONS='--exclude-dir=.svn' makes my life suck less

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:16:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

MY LIFE

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:16:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

WOULD SUCK

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:16:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

WITHOUT GREP

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:16:59 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

"use ack"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oooh.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:07 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

No, seriously, use ack

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

ack whitelists file extensions, which means it never gets me the files
I want.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I tried it for a while, and it kept missing, like, debian/rules,
random .cfg files or something, etc. etc.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:29 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

You can easily set up custom extension filters, or you can do ack -a

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

It would actually make me less productive, so I gave up on it.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:17:59 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

-a makes it parse everything except like VCS directories.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:18:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Batley Townswomen's Guild Presents the First Heart Transplant <nelhage>

Yeah, ack's whitelist is Wrong, and makes it basically useless to me

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:18:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Thripshaw's Disease <nelhage>

I could use -a, but then I'd have to remember that.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:18:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for COUGARS! <geofft>

It's possible ack -a would make me hate it less, but ==nelhage and I
already gave up on it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:19:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Piston Engine (a Bargain) <nelhage>

Personally I just solve this problem by always being in a git
checkout and using 'git grep' :)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:19:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

And at that point, all I'm using ack for is the GREP_OPTIONS thing I
just set, and not having to type '-r .' and recursively search the
current directory

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:19:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

"If you want to do a git conversion, we're hiring"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:19:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:28:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

grep from the future finally lets you write '-r' instead of '-r .'!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:31:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Woah, really? AWESOME.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 17:35:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for MODELS! <geofft>

Did that get merged? I requested that and they wontfixed it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 18:05:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I wish I understood Windows more

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 18:50:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Also I cannot believe this about dialog box is broken

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:01:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> write '-r' instead of '-r .'!

Excellent!  That always used to give me a twinge of embarrassment when I
told people how to use grep.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:01:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think I remember seeing geofft's wontfixed request for that.  Do you
know why they changed their mind?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:03:40 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Wait, I'm confused. What's wrong with grep -r needle haystack1
haystack2?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:04:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Nothing's wrong with that. But if you do "grep -r needle", it
recursively greps stdin.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:04:22 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Oh, right.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:44:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Sigh, cow-orker committed a patch of the form
#ifdef _WIN32
        _engineVersion = [...]
#elif defined(__APPLE__)
        _engineVersion = [...]
#endif

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:45:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for COUGARS! <geofft>

"No wonder the Linux about dialog box broke"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:45:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Wapple.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:45:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Admittedly, this is a common library that only gets _really_ used on
Windows and Mac, so it wasn't totally obvious he needed a third case.
But we do call into it from Linux to find out own version number

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:47:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Mm, imo it's good practice to do

  #else
  #error Nice, detailed description of what should be added
  #endif

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:48:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Owner of a lonely heart -- much better than a owner of a broken heart - yes
 <rnjacobs>

But even without the specifics of the error it at would at least have been
obvious where it was breaking.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:48:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  "Boxing Tonight" – Jack Bodell v. Sir Kenneth Clark <nelhage>

==

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:49:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Tangentially, is defined(__APPLE__) the correct define for when
building on macos under xcode?  I want a list of the correct #defines
for various platforms and compilers.  Some time this week I need to
take code written to use CoreAudio and patch it to be CoreAudio or
ALSA.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:50:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Was it defined to the same thing for both?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:50:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:50:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

One goes and grubs around in the .exe and gets the version; the other
goes and grubs around in the bundle and gets the version

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:51:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

(I think the third case is going to be `dpkg -l`)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:51:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I have no idea, but it sounds as good as anything else. In our
environment there are basically three things we support; if you want,
like, BareMetal on WinPE, or Fedora, or something, you're changing
enough hidden assumptions that it's not worth us narrowing down our
#ifdefs to catch that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:52:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

like, i don't even remember the correct defines to use for gcc on
cygwin vs cl.exe in windows vs gcc on linux.  "there really ought to
be a webpage"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:52:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

asking the package manager for the version number makes me twitch.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:53:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:54:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 19:55:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh hey, this looks mildly useful:
http://predef.sourceforge.net/

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:05:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Uhh, this is why you want autoconf or the like. Test for the presence
of CoreAudio, not the presence of OS X.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:05:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

That is probably a great suggestion.

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:12:46 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I think it's because I'm used to the third-party packaging as done by debian
&c, and the version of the package there clearly isn't necessarily the same as
the version of the software.

Class: geofft Instance: surface
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:14:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Well huh, this explains why MS cares about logo certification for ARM
devices...

Class: geofft Instance: surface
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:14:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for MARKETERS! <geofft>

The iPad basically has the moral equivalent of secure boot already

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:15:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Well, there's no third-party here. :)

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

We're the software author, the packager, _and_ the OS distributor

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:17:08 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Right, so it doesn't violate that intuition. And the best way to keep it in
sync is to only put it in one place in the first place.

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:17:25 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that the lady of the lake now lives in a fountain somewhere.
 <rnjacobs>

But <twitch>, even if I'm wrong about it.

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:17:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

(Also, the specific use case of this code is "what version is
installed", which may differ from the version that the current binary
is)

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:18:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:19:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: work.packaging
Time: Mon Jun 18 20:22:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

It's part of the update infrastructure?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 22:33:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Geez, did I lose my intuition for monads already?

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 22:33:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Oh, wait, no.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 22:34:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

i,i *thinks for an hour* "Yes, it is patently obvious"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 22:54:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Oh right, functions are first-class objects, so you don't need to have
a list of functions and the semantics of running them in series on the
previous one's outputs, you can just fold them with (.) and get an
object of type a -> a

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Pokemon #600

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_National_Pok%C3%A9dex_number <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Pokedex ticket 600: Klang (Steel)

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Told ya.

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Pokemon #700?

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_National_Pok%C3%A9dex_number <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Pokedex ticket 700: Unable to identify ticket 700

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:14:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Ok then

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:15:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

THERE ARE ONLY 151 POKÉMON!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:23:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

3 is a zero-argument function returning 3

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:24:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That is a useless, confusing statement.

It's hard to say that it's "wrong" because "zero-argument function"
doesn't mean anything.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:25:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

foldr is a zero-argument function returning foldr.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:25:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

"meh"

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:25:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://conal.net/blog/posts/everything-is-a-function-in-haskell

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:25:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

andersk: that too!

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:26:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Any n-argument function is an n-k argument function returning a
function of k arguments. But in particular, that holds for k = n, not
just k < n

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:27:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't understand what you mean by "that holds".

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:28:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's not a claim that's testable against the language semantics.  In
fact the language semantics don't have an idea of "n-argument
function", just "1-argument function".

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:29:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Well, the language semantics to some extent have a concept of
arguments to data constructors. The realization I just had is that
there's nothing special about data constructors with no arguments, and
you can think of them as functions that return a member of the
datatype, just like data constructors with arguments

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:29:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If this is, like, an analogy or an interpretation of the language
semantics, then sure, you can define the otherwise nonsensical term
"zero-argument function" and thereby extend your statement's validity.
But I question the value of doing so.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:30:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Even if they do get interned so they behave like concrete elements.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:30:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

They aren't functions, though!  They don't have a -> in their type.
That much is objective fact.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:30:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for BEER! <geofft>

Well, the realization is that 3 is a data constructor, not just data

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:30:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

They have zero or more ->s in their types.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:31:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I still maintain this is a bizarre way of looking at things, but you
aren't using it to confuse beginners in #haskell, so I guess I should
shut up already

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:32:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The right lesson here is that all data is a data constructor, not
that all data constructors are functions.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:33:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also, 3 is a bad example.  It's not guaranteed to be algebraic data.
Creation of numbers from numeric literals and pattern matching on
numeric literals are both special.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:34:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

In GHC, the algebraic constructor of (3 :: Int) is I#

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Mon Jun 18 23:37:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

As far as the Report is concerned, numeric types like Int (and other
stuff like IO) are abstract types.  You can't tell whether they're
algebraic and if so what the constructor is.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jun 19 01:28:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Sure, 3 is special, and even 3::Int is special

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jun 19 01:28:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

==andersk is what I was trying to say. I just had it in my head that
all data constructors were functions.

Class: geofft Instance: haskell
Time: Tue Jun 19 02:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I get the feeling the most productive thing I can do is write for
HaskellWiki and provide github mirrors of every darcs repository, and
that will be more benefit to society than anything I can actually
write in this language

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 02:52:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Why am I learning about monads in Scala?

Class: geofft Instance: scala
Time: Tue Jun 19 02:52:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

http://typeclassopedia.bitbucket.org/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 02:52:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

-> read/sleep

Class: geofft Instance: zhangc
Time: Tue Jun 19 06:40:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

== Keegan

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jun 19 12:06:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

discriminated union (data structure)
discriminated union (social justice)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 19 14:30:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for PANDAS! <geofft>

Pro tip: execl-style functions need a NULL at the end

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 19 14:44:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Whoa, it's a Ramesh

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:16:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Why am I getting in an argument with a hypervisor?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:19:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You're not. You only /think/ you're having an argument, and it's
manipulating hidden state to support the illusion.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:19:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:21:35 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is incredibly handsome. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:22:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It looks like the person you're actually arguing with is Ian Jackson.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:22:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This Ian Jackson:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/03/msg00236.html

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:23:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So really, that explains why you're getting into an argument.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:23:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Haha, point.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Oh, does the '.@username' override Twitter's built-in distribution of
@messages only to people who follow both sender & recipient?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:28:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh, regarding  the debian-devel discussion, can someone explain why 0
-> NULL is _wrong_? I thought GCC had #define NULL __null which was a
special symbol?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:28:52 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:29:09 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

just like saying "so, @user, ...."

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:29:30 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

as long as the first character is not @ (or leading spaces) it's a
broadcast message

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:30:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

achernya: Ian's reasoning is here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2007/10/msg00200.html

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:30:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

> can someone explain why 0 -> NULL is _wrong_?

Eighty messages on debian-devel later, apparently not.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:30:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

also ==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:30:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeah, I read that rasoning, and it goes against everything I know
about NULL and C/C++

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:31:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(I was taught to always use NULL and not 0, because of optimizations
and other things)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:32:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

execl(blah, blah, 0) is wrong (as in it will really actually crash)
on 64-bit systems.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:32:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

You need to do execl(blah, blah, (char *)0) or execl(blah, blah,
(char *)NULL).

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:32:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh, why?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:32:48 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

an int may not be the same size as a pointer

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Because the compiler pushes a 32-bit integer 0 onto the stack instead
of a 64-bit pointer.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:33:22 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(char *)0 is a 64 bit zero. 0 is a 32 bit zero. i'd guess execl(blah,
blah, 0ULL) would work

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:33:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...why does the compiler do that? I thought NULL had the "type" of
void*

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:33:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

(void *)0 is basically acceptable instead of NULL.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:33:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

NULL has the type of void *, 0 has the type of int.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:34:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But then why is execl(blah, blah, NULL) not sufficient, why the case
to char*?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:34:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

mind you, 0ULL would be wrong but still work.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.d
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:34:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't be slaves of time, it's a helluva way to die, slowly, by degrees ... down with the Ticktockman! <mherdeg>

Haha, I really like

Beyond that, any additional uploads of dpkg will be REJECTed until you
guys resolve this nonsense. Flamewars on -devel, ignoring functional
patches for months on end, package hijacks and requests for UNACCEPTs
aren't the way to maintain dpkg.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:34:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

To be pedantic, the standard only guarantees that 0 evaluates to a
null pointer in a pointer context, not that the null pointer has 0 as
its integer representation.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:35:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

achernya: You would think it should be, but people do dumb things with
the C preprocessor.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:35:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

On oddball systems that use some other representation for the null
pointer, (void *)0 and (char *)0 will work but not 0 or 0UL or 0ULL.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter.d
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:35:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, that was a good intervention by Anthony Towns.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:36:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Now, I think that on GNU systems, NULL is guaranteed to be #defined
to (void *)0 instead of just 0, but this is not necessarily a
portable assumption.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:38:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what's 0ULL?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Except in C++, where that doesn’t work (there’s no implicit
conversion from void * to foo *), and NULL _has_ to be 0, until we
have C++11’s nullptr.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:38:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

0 unsigned long long

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:39:12 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

andersk: How many systems that use something nonzero for NULL are in
common use?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:56:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

http://c-faq.com/null/machexamp.html

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 15:59:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Note again that, although such machines _represent_ NULL using a
nonzero bit pattern, the _C expression_ 0 still evaluates to a NULL
pointer in any context where the compiler knows it’s a pointer, and
so NULL is still #defined as 0 or some casted 0.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jun 19 16:00:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

and constructs such as ‘if (ptr)’ still work to test for null pointers.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 16:21:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

MEAT YOUR NEW GOD

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 16:22:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

\o/ _o_

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jun 19 17:31:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

write FizzBuzz during an interview
write HarfBuzz during an interview

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:16:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/765/b7e.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:17:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

That is _actually me right now_ with the second monitor off and
everything

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:19:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

When'd you become a dog?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:20:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

When the dog days of summer are upon us, duh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:21:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It's not even the solstice yet"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jun 19 18:37:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

HarfBuzz?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:12:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

gnome-screensaver is bad and you should feel bad

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:12:34 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Is it doing the weird thing of not displaying the login box when you
resume for a while?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:12:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

It likes to let me interact with the computer for a while before
going "oh hey, I was idle? I bet I should lock that screen..."

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:13:00 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Mine's been doing a little of that too :-/

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:13:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I just set up xmonad...this somehow broke gnome-screensaver...

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:13:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

As in, it doesn't autolock.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Is it running at all? Do you have a gnome-session?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"my screensaver is not gnome-screensaver"

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

No gnome-session. I do have a gnome-settings-daemon.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

That's insufficient

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Ctrl+Alt+L locks.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:14:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Hmmmm. I think I can repro on Natty, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:15:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

ezyang gave me this configuration, so I assume it's sufficient.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:15:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"Beware of errors in the above configuration: I have only type-checked
it, not tried it."

Class: geofft Instance: fedora.d
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:15:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I found a hilarious bug yesterday where doing ‘Switch User’ to a user
who’s been idle for a while causes the computer to immediately suspend.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:15:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

He uses it...

Class: geofft Instance: fedora.d
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:15:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Oops

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:59:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Wait, what, why do I have a $25 "RETUREND CHECK CHG" on my credit card
statement

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:59:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Shouldn't those not show up on my credit card?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 19:59:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

(also when did I write a bounced check?)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:01:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I guess the things surrounding it are curious, too; an AUTOMATIC
PAYMENT - THANK YOU of the amount of my previous bill, and an
ADJUSTMENT-PAYMENTS of that, except a charge instead of a payment.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:01:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Following it is the actual payment I intended to make.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:02:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Is it possible my bank decided to attempt to pay off my credit card
for me in the amount of my last statement, at the same time I decided
to explicitly do so in the amount of what I actually owed (last
statement + additional stuff), and the first of those didn't clear or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:04:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Interesting, there is also a FEE / MIT FED CU PAYMENT 120615 NON
SUFFICIENT FUNDS FEE $25.00 in my checking account. I think I will
call MITFCU and yell at them, and also not use their new UI for
making payments

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:07:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Every single check I've written in the last while has been good

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:27:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

bluh, gnome-shell, like, actually has bugs that xmonad doesn't

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:27:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SURGEONS! <geofft>

How hard is this?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:28:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ICCCM with EWMH and NetWM? Surprisingly hard, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

That's not really what I was going for. I'm alking about simple things
like "one window is not randomly always on top of another even when
the other one has focus", "when you change workspaces, the windows
change too", and "when you press keys, they go to the application"

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:30:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Mrs. Niggerbaiter Explodes <nelhage>

Oh, are you using pre-Precise Unity?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:30:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Fedora.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:30:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: On the Bus (end credits) <nelhage>

Oh, no, gnome-shell. Right.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:30:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Splitting a railway carriage with his nose <nelhage>

Yeah, pre-Precise Unity is also *totally* confused by keyboard focus,
afaict.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:31:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Horse Chestnut <nelhage>

Supposedly they fixed this in precise, but I haven't built up
sufficient reserves of give-a-fuck to give it another try.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for MODELS! <geofft>

When I was running in Precise, it was better, namely that my Super key
went to _both_ Unity and the application, instead of, apparently,
_neither_ gnome-shell nor the application

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:32:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Party Political Broadcast (Choreographed) † <nelhage>

"Awesome"

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:33:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Admittedly, gnome-shell might win here in that I can't figure out how
to tell Unity to use some key other than Super

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:33:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Gestures to Indicate Pauses in a Televised Talk <nelhage>

"Wait, gnome is *more* customizable than something?"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:50:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

sabdfl speaks:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/35465

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 20:50:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

(it's not terribly interesting)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:00:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

... oh hey, mjg59's blog comments reminded me, I totally forgot that
sabdfl made his billions on selling certificates. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: ssh
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:03:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

<3 ssh-copy-id

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:38:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:38:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, exactly.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:39:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

We specifically need a _VeriSign_ cert, our existing Authenticode cert
won't work

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:39:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Like what's the actual difference here? I can go get an Authenticode
cert from any random vendor and write LOADLIN.SYS

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:40:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

And then we can boot Linux through the verified NT loader/kernel

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:40:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And then your cert will be revoked and blacklisted.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for AIRLINES! <geofft>

and then I get another Authenticode cert from another random vendor

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:41:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and MS /will/ be shipping secure boot blacklist updates through
windows update)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:41:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Also, if this is just the single-boot case, you run LOADLIN.SYS early
enough in the boot process before Windows Update runs, before network
drivers load

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:42:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, no, it will be distributing blacklist updates that will be loaded
into UEFI.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

What good is it to distribute updates, if they're never received?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:42:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

(i,i Answer: UEFI network cards secretly talk to Windows Update
regardless of what the host tells them)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:54:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Ahahahahahahahaha how do these people seriously continue to exist

"Our sincere apologies. This error occurs due to a bug in the
Organizational Certificate enrollment. This error will occur if any
country other than the US is entered into the "Certificate Info" (3rd
step) section of the enrollment. This has been escalated to the
engineers who are working on fixing it now. In the meantime you can do
the following to get past the error and complete your enrollment: On
the "Certificate Info" part of the enrollment, enter the country as
"US" and the state as "California". All other information can be
correct. Once the enrollment is complete go ahead and send us the
order number for your certificate as well as the correct Country and
State values for your company in reply to this email. We will edit the
order in our system and enter the correct company and country values
for you before we issue the certificate. The certificate that we issue
to you will then contain the correct information."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:55:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/611472/winqual-why-would-wer-not-accept-code-signing-certificates

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Tue Jun 19 21:55:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 19 22:44:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Yo dawg, we heard you liked isos so we put a .iso inside your .iso so
you could install the wrong .iso and confuse everyone

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jun 19 22:47:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:05:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Hm, same bug in xmonad, so it's clearly not that...

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:07:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Sorry, what are you doing?

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:08:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Trying to pass the super key into this X client

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:08:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

We're sorry; your X client has insufficient super powers to handle the
might of the super key.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:09:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Works fine in xmonad on Natty

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Tue Jun 19 23:13:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Well hm. xev reports the same things...

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 20 00:34:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Aha, the answer was to put "xkeymap.usekeycodeMap = true" in
~/.vmware/config.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 20 00:35:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for MODELS! <geofft>

YAK    0/530 HP
YAK drops ARROW KEYS!
YAK drops SUPER KEY!
YAK drops FUNCTION KEY!
YAK drops PHOENIX DOWN!

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 20 00:35:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for BEER! <geofft>

Well, the last one might not be true.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 20 00:35:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Maybe yak down.

Class: geofft Instance: fedora
Time: Wed Jun 20 00:43:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Sigh, having shaved that yak I am out of time to do the thing I
wanted to do on this VM... today may not have been my best use of time

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 01:34:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Prooobably should catch the train instead of staying late and letting
my schedule become dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 01:34:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I guess I can always fail to sleep at home, if I want.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 02:49:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

-> midnight train going anywhere

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 13:43:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for BEER! <geofft>

I seem to be sleeping less well this week than last.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 13:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Or maybe just drinking coffee less well

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Wed Jun 20 14:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Sigh, global warming

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:30:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

gvfs
udisks

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:35:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

It's really strange to notice something new in a song you've listened
to for a while

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:54:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

I hate computers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:54:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

ESPECIALLY computers with graphics cards

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:55:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

i,i "now announcing MokaFive HotMetal for printing presses"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:57:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

How minimal can the graphics card before it falls on the safe side? Are Vt100s safe?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I think I'm actually happy with VGAs. Maybe SVGAs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 15:59:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Someone has written "ad aerarium" on the ground here.
 <rnjacobs>

Plain pixel buffers without any acceleration (e.g. a cgthree) ?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 16:11:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

the hell do we have a copy of webkit in our source tree

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 16:11:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because all the cool kids do.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 16:14:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

commit-message.q: "sorry for the huge checkin, guys"

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Jun 20 16:28:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I don't understand it, but yes, lots of people will pay to buy Macs
and pay to run Windows on it

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Jun 20 16:36:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Just a man selling an albatross.
 <rnjacobs>

Style plus pragmatism, in a frame of disposable income.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:51:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Intel drivers!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:51:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

You were supposed to work! You were my one hope!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:51:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Running to Mercury <nelhage>

Ha. Yeah, I once believe that, too.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:51:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You were ... the chosen one?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

"According to modprobe, yes"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:52:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What are you trying to do?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:52:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Well so I can't release this stupid _Windows-side_ fix to a customer
because it triggers the world's dumbest graphics card hang when you
_don't even call the code that I patched_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:53:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:53:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:53:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I want some video cards I can smash into tiny pieces right now.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:54:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I might have some defunct GeForce2 around here somewhere...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 17:54:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think I threw my old video card out when I cleaned before moving.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:00:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:01:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

hrgh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:01:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

i-mix.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:04:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Wheeee, customer shipped us the laptop we couldn't boot. Maybe this
hardware will be more fun.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:23:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

"so, how does EFI work"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"Poorly."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:24:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It usually sits there with a food logo, then suddenly your OS appears.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:25:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Roy and Hank Spim – Mosquito hunters <nelhage>

https://plus.google.com/108087225644395745666/posts/TMREFvaq1oX is kinda nifty, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:26:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

<3 the comments

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:26:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I'm trying to find the thing that made me finally decide EFI was on
crack.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:26:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

Oh, I've seen lots of things that have convinced me EFI is on crack.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Ah, yes, here we go.

/**
 * Determine EFI CPU I/O width code
 *
 * @v size              Size of value
 * @ret width           EFI width code
 *
 * Someone at Intel clearly gets paid by the number of lines of code
 * they write.  No-one should ever be able to make I/O this
 * convoluted.  The EFI_CPU_IO_PROTOCOL_WIDTH enum is my favourite
 * idiocy.
 */
static EFI_CPU_IO_PROTOCOL_WIDTH efi_width ( size_t size ) {
        switch ( size ) {
        case 1 :        return EfiCpuIoWidthFifoUint8;
        case 2 :        return EfiCpuIoWidthFifoUint16;
        case 4 :        return EfiCpuIoWidthFifoUint32;
        case 8 :        return EfiCpuIoWidthFifoUint64;
        default :
                assert ( 0 );
                /* I wonder what this will actually do... */
                return EfiCpuIoWidthMaximum;
        }
}

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:28:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(iPXE's snark about EFI is second only to its snark about PXE.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:28:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why...is this a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:29:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

If you want to do port I/O (you know, inb/outb) in EFI, you have to
specify the size using that enumeration.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:30:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But...why?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:30:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Thec ode is literally multiplying by 8...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:30:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Oh, no, wait, I was wrong! This applies to normal device MMIO too!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:31:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Alex: The enumeration constants aren't defined in any kind of sensible
order, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(I mean, you're running in ring 0, you *could* just access memory
directly, but that would be So Nonportable! How Could You!)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:31:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I am horrified that something that could have been implemented with a
single shift instruction now has to go through (at best) a jump table
or (at worst) if-elif blocks...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:35:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Reading from device MMIO space, normal people:
- Dereference pointer.

Reading from device MMIO space, EFI version:
- Get the CPU IO protocol structure. Dereference it.
  Grab a function pointer out of it. Call this function
  pointer with arguments: CPU IO protocol structure,
  stupid EFI_CPU_IO_PROTOCOL_WIDTH enumeration corresponding
  to size of access, address, count, pointer to buffer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 18:45:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That is pretty crackful.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:01:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

So I'm reading
http://wiki.phoenix.com/wiki/index.php/EFI_LEGACY_BIOS_PROTOCOL
and seeing the Int86() function, which... performs an interrupt? You
pass it registers as ... arguments?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:02:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:02:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

What ... I don't even

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:02:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:03:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Can I just call the function directly, or do I need to use
CallFunction()?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 19:03:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The *single* nice thing about the EFI system services interface is
that you do just call the functions in a protocol struct as functions.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 20 20:07:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Okay, actually terribly hungry. It might be lunchtime

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 20:41:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Is... is this config-package-dev for Windows???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 20:42:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Quick, obscure this message before jdreed comes back!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 22:05:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

You know what's awesome? I don't have to care about multiarch for
work-related reasons at all

Class: geofft Instance: work.stark
Time: Wed Jun 20 22:44:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Okay, now I started reading Kay Sievers' G+ feed...

>> so is there a good reason or its just that you and +Lennart
>> Poettering are best buddies and want to share a repository together?
>> :)
> We first thought about getting a cute little dog together, but then
> we decided we first merge the repositories and see how that goes.

+++

Class: geofft Instance: work.stark
Time: Wed Jun 20 22:47:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Well, when two developers love each other's code very much..."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:08:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

http://kb.vmware.com/kb/1003945
Huh, I had no idea AMD reintroduced segmentation to long mode

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:18:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

yeah, they eventually gave in.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:20:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

... Does that mean NaCl works on AMD's 64-bit chips but not Intel's?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:28:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I thought all current AMD64 chips have the same vestigial segmentation
in long mode -- CS, DS, ES, SS all have base 0 and limit ∞; FS and GS
have configurable base but no limit checking

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Well, VMware believe's it's good enough for BT isolation...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:34:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Wait ... why is this laptop not recognizing any USB drives

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 20 23:41:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Oh. Because they're going to the guest.
... maybe I should go home before I forget how my product works any
more.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 00:36:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Whoo, no more Priority: Highest tickets assigned to me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 00:37:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

(i.e., no more blockers to be fixed before code freeze Friday, so I
can get on with fun things)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 21 00:46:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

-> home. Today was a good day, except for Intel sucking

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 21 03:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Let P be the proposition "That awkward moment when your 'that awkward
moment' sentence isn't awkward". ...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 21 03:37:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

That awkward moment when you realize your logic system includes
sentences whose truth cannot be proved within that logic system.

Class: geofft Instance: google-maps
Time: Thu Jun 21 03:45:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Apparently it takes about one minute to walk from my house to my house

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:20:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for BEER! <geofft>

..... If the Alumni Association doesn't know how to _accept donated
money and get it to the right place_, what exactly are they good for?

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:21:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

pestering people to donate while claiming there aren't enough
donations to be useful

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:24:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Helping alums get jobs? Helping alums stay in touch with each other?

I mean, I realize that in practice I believe "alumni association" is
basically a euphemism for "arm of the gift office that's a bit more
subtle", but one could *imagine* an AA that does something else.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Just say a number already!  Any number!" - plitwack <jessiehl>

Advertising expensive MIT-alum-community-exclusive trips to exotic
locales.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:27:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: we can reach our destination, but we're still a ways away <jessiehl>

A lot of alumni associations seem to do that, actually, for their
alumni.  I guess it's a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:28:25 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

my parents' company organizes those trips and tries to sell them to
alum associations!

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate gossip about other people.  It means I was a spectator." - kelch <jessiehl>

Oh huh, cool.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Thu Jun 21 15:29:10 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: All snark, all the time. <aatharuv>

Trying to get us to sign up for credit cards which give $$$ back to the
Tute?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Thu Jun 21 17:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

I should probably have a debathena cluster machine somewhere...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:43:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

VMware is the crappiest piece of crap that ever crapped

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:43:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Really? They usurped Windows?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:43:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Windows is at least unashamed about it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:46:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       VMware is the crappiest piece of crap that ever crapped

:(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:47:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Do you know what doesn't rhyme with science...? Neurotoxin. <lapentab>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:47:09 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

It's definitely the worst virtualization software hands
down, except for the alternatives

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:49:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==kcr, at least for desktop virtualization. VirtualBox et al are
*awful*.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:50:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

One of these days I will have time to switch to kvm, but I don't think
I can tell this customer "we got your bug report about some random
behavior in some edge case, so here's a new hypervisor"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:51:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

kvm at least is open source. (VirtualBox, though open source, is also
awful. We just removed it this release, I think)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:51:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have high hopes for kvm. mumble spice mumble.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:52:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

I have high hopes for KVM/virt-manager eventually being the right
answer. I think VMware still beats it out on the desktop for all of
features, reliability, and ease-of-use.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

VMware only beats it for "reliability" because kvm is your usual
open-source crap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:54:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think Boxes+libvirt+kvm is supposed to challenge vmware on the
desktop, but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:56:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

eppur si muoooove like Jagger

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:56:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> VMware only beats it for "reliability" because kvm is your usual
> open-source crap.

That sounds like a huge "only"...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:56:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

Yeah, I'm not sure what your point there is, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:56:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"other than that, Mrs. Lincoln..."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:57:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Just that "VMware is the most reliable hypervisor out there" does not
translate to "VMware is a really reliable hypervisor"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:57:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

(Also, ESX, as I gather, is a significantly better product)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:57:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

kvm does have the very real advantage of not being xen.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:57:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Haha. An important advantage!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 18:58:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I've heard ESX(i) is still terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Jun 21 19:48:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Release team has announced the freeze date for Wheezy: June 30, ~7 PM
(I think UTC?).

Somehow I expected them to just say "hey guys, we froze lol" instead
of announcing a date.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Jun 21 19:50:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Now we wait and see who wins Freeze Chicken.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Jun 21 19:50:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

what are the rules?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:16:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Whee, I think the build has been broken for the last several hours on
my account. And we're freezing tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Update: actually, GTK is the crappiest crap that ever did crap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

They *did* write their own object system in C.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

How much crap would a GTK crap if a GTK could crap crap?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

"which explains why VMware sucks, since it uses a tone of GTK"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

*ton

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

In comparison to MSFC?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:36:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

MFC is...weird

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:39:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: The opinions expressed in this zephyr are not those of the author <yoz>

Good thing they're making another GTK. This time it will be better!
!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:40:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Update: Actually, Ubuntu is crap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:40:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:41:08 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Chumbawamba – Tubthumping
 <rnjacobs>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:41:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Look, when you get right down to it, *everything* is crap.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 20:41:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"every sucks"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 21:07:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Does that object system suck?  Or is it just the fact that C is a poor
host for an object system?  In the latter case, Vala might be
worthwhile?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 21:07:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

[stark] I hit a lot of annoying bugs in virt-manager, plus it makes me
run parts of GNOME that I don't otherwise use.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 21:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(Some of those are probably libvirt bugs but I don't think any of them
are qemu-kvm bugs)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 21 21:10:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

lol vala

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:52:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Yay we have a Verisign cert now.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I think that means I get to sign a bootloader tomorrow. "Anyone have
suggestions?"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:53:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Suggestions...for what?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:55:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

"bootloaders"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:55:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Maybe GRUB Invaders?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Thu Jun 21 23:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Fenway. <stum>

oh man, a social CRM for SIPB members.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jun 22 00:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Asus's Chinese name is "Great Splendid Computer Corporation"?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Fri Jun 22 00:58:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

> social CRM for SIPB members
I don't have context, but I've been planning on trying to write this.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Fri Jun 22 02:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for PILOTS! <geofft>

(See my zsigs)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jun 22 03:04:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Starking, price is fact-checking this, and believes that "Splendid" is
a deliberately silly translation of what should be translated
"Chinese".

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jun 22 03:04:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for HUNTERS! <geofft>

(in this context)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jun 22 03:06:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"Great Chinese Computer Company" would be a reasonable translation of the
whole name.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jun 22 03:07:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Or "Corporation".)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:21:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

http://mid.gmane.org/20120622110429.GA15077@riva.dynamic.greenend.org.uk

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:22:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

1. SCREW YOU TOO, GPLv3

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:23:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

2. I am intrigued that Ubuntu believes that they don't need to protect
the bootloader or kernel (or validate them), just the preboot
environment with access to the UEFI calls. I hope this works out for
them.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:23:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am very interested in seeing how this turns out.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:23:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I said the same earlier)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:24:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Ah, sorry, woke up late.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:24:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wait wat

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:25:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Anyway, bluh. _I_ should probably continue to plan to sign kernels and
modules, sice we're an even wimpier target than Canonical. But the
TiVoization stuff will actually be incredibly annoying because we have
lots of custom crap around our GRUB (for whole-image updates)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:25:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, Ubuntu's reading of the spec has apparently convinced them that
it's at least worth *trying* the signed-bootloader-only argument.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:26:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Speaking entirely selfishly, it would make my life a lot easier if
this turns out to work :)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:26:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

And I'm not really looking forward to learning how to script efilinux

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:27:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is it possible for us to try and kill this proposal with fire? Or is
fighting Microsoft on this a losing battle?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:28:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Oh, no, it would make my life easier too. And it would make my life
easier if Matthew Garrett is really just gearing up for an antitrust
lawsuit against MS and just waiting on RH's and Oracle's legal teams
to stop hating each other. (He has suspiciously not been talking about
getting drunk until the pain goes away, and made a somewhat
sequiturless reply in the comments that it's not his place to talk
about potential antitrust cases against MS.)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:29:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I could believe a secret RH/Oracle/Canonical (well, space-billionaire)
legal alliance bringing an antitrust case against MS.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:30:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That being said, I believe the current state of affairs is that our
lawyers are very much not friends with their lawyers.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:30:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for MODELS! <geofft>

But MokaFive certainly doesn't have the legal resources to take on MS,
and if we lose our signing key, our life sucks because we don't have
nearly as many angry customers as either of those. And our customers
will just reprogram their UEFI root store anyway, which means we only
get screwed in marketing to new customers.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

*any of those, actually, although I have no idea how Canonical's
number of paying customers compares to ours

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:32:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

"it's certainly the closest"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

shadow: You should probably be happy (a little) about Ubuntu not
enforcing signed modules as far as the can get away with it

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:33:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Assuming they can get away with it.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:34:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

(But yeah, my theory is mjg59's ~endorsing this so RH can go "we tried
this in good faith and it didn't work so MS was really trying to
screw us over and we're not merely being whiny")

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:40:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PETS! <geofft>

Okay, reading the timidity source after thinking about secure boot is
making me want to get drunker than Matthew Garrett.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:40:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There isn't enough gin in the world for that.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:41:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Unfortunately I think I have a customer call as soon as I get in where
I get to explain how VMware sucks

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:41:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for FARMERS! <geofft>

"and try to avoid blaming VMware too much"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

CUSTOMERS

Y U NO RUN THE LATEST VERSION OF OUR SOFTWARE ALL THE TIME

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:56:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

long and struct foo * aren't guaranteed to be the same size, right?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:57:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

they're not even on amd64, are they?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 15:59:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

isn't amd64 LLP64 and what you're describing LP64?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:01:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

sizeof(long) and sizeof(void*) are the same on AMD64, both are 8 bytes

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:01:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

On x86 they're both 4 bytes.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:05:29 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Recent study shows 5 out of 4 Americans have trouble with fractions. <eichin>

I've used HP systems where pointer-to-function
was 64 but long was 32, but even at the time one could legitimately
question whether that was actually within the standard

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:21:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Windows x64 has 4-byte longs and 8-byte pointers.  But anything
vaguely Unix-like has 8-byte both.  (Hmm, now I wonder what Cygwin
does about this.)

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:23:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"cries"

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:23:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Ah, ok

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:23:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:25:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

andersk: Aha, thanks. Timidity is in theory portable to Windows (and
I think has had more active Windows development in the last few
years, anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 22 16:28:50 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> shadow: You should probably be happy (a little)
i am a little happy. not overly

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:01:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Huh, I'm distinctly getting better at perfect pitch

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:01:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I should put a concerted effort towards it sometime

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:07:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

SVN!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:07:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for MODELS! <geofft>

I WILL DUMP YOU INTO THE TRASH HEAP ON THE BURNING PYRE OF THE CORPSES
OF MICROSOFT, VMWARE, AND THE FSF

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:20:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PETS! <geofft>

I am so incredibly happy that as far as I can tell none of our
customers care to print anything out

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:21:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You realize that that's going to be the next feature request you get
now.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:21:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for COUGARS! <geofft>

Yeah, I just jinxed myself, sigh

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:23:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

(Well, really, I think Windows' printing stuff Just Works here, so I
don't need to care)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jun 22 19:23:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for AIRLINES! <geofft>

(especially network printing)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 22 21:07:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

omg <3 git

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 22 21:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for PETS! <geofft>

it like doesn't suck

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Fri Jun 22 22:31:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

def chocobo(**kweh):

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:02:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I wonder if there are _more_ active-in-the-last-two-years members and
prospectives in SFBA than in Boston right now...

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:02:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I seem to be crashing itsthisforthat.com.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:05:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I could believe that.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:05:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I don't understand why you people leave Boston for _not_ SF during the
summer. (I guess NYC is marginally acceptable.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:06:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

barely.  "because they haven't been here and drank the koolaid yet"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:22:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NYC in the summer is *not* acceptable.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Jun 22 23:22:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

My God, is it ever disgusting in Manhattan in August.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jun 23 00:01:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Can I have my statically-checked Python yet?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jun 23 00:02:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Clearly I should just mumble "pypy" in front of davidben until he
decides to make it his next project.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jun 23 00:02:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

i,i "pychecker"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jun 23 00:02:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Oh wait he's a 6.858 TA! That means I have a good excuse to convince
him to care about it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jun 23 00:03:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Merp.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jun 23 02:37:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Housemates are cracking up at jerkcity

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jun 23 02:38:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

"My favorite thing about jerkcity is it's like random enthusiastic
homophobia mixed with '90s UNIX jokes"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jun 23 02:38:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Also we're discussing a free software version of comic chat

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:04:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

wtf, upstream

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for PILOTS! <geofft>

why did you put diffstats _in the commit message_

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:12:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

magic

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:29:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Ugh, I don't understand how SourceForge is so actively
incompetent/malicious and still gets used

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:42:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

... downloaded the SourceForge code ("Allura") repo. It contains test
data for their Mercurial display code, which is a Mercurial
repo ... inside a directory tracked in Mercurial ... and that
directory is itself tracked in the Allura git repo.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 03:42:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

These people have no idea how to use source control.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 04:34:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> why did you put diffstats _in the commit message_

I do that! It's actually really useful.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 04:43:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 04:45:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, when you're storing the output of some automated process in git
such that a common piece of data you want is "how much did the output
change for each run", it's nice to be able to do a git log instead of
a (much slower) git log --stat.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Sat Jun 23 04:45:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I will admit that you're probably weird if you're doing it for
commits you're making by hand.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sat Jun 23 05:53:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

that time that I did was a pretty terrible mistake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 01:35:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Wooo, sipbwest party was fun

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 01:54:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm not familiar with that floor of EC.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Jun 24 16:41:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Interesting small point in today's sermon: plenty of characters in
Genesis care about not sinning and identify specific things as sins
and as immoral, even though the Ten Commandments only come in Exodus
to Moses. So you can argue _from the text of the Bible alone_ that
the claim that you need the Bible in order to have morality is wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Jun 24 16:42:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

(as opposed to just from claims of universal principles or philosophy
or whatever)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:23:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

"Stale NFS file handle"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:23:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Please tell me, where do you see NFS anywhere on this system, mister
kernel

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:50:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Metaphysical Plaintain

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:54:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

? So... you can't deep fry it then? What's the point of that??

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:54:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

It would be the tastiest mystery hunt!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jun 24 20:55:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I would assume that you can't eat anything metaphysical... or I can't
wrap my head around what you mean.

Class: geofft Instance: else.hipster
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:21:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

My keyboard has an A three octaves below middle C. You've probably
never heard it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:25:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Whoops, here too long. -> elsewhere

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:26:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I wonder if I'm actually faster at biking than Google Maps think you
should be, yet.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:27:46 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

It would be cool if Google Maps averaged your walking or biking speed
and used that for future precictions.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:28:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I also wish the bike trip planner was aware of hills

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:28:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

I thought it tried to be

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:28:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: SFO 6/19-6/25 <nelhage>

Which is different from necessarily being good at it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:30:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Oh, I guess they claim to.  I haven't seen much evidence one way or
the other.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Jun 24 21:30:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Mostly, it will go way the hell out of your way just to use a small
segment of bike path.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Sun Jun 24 23:21:10 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

There's a claim that they had Noah's writings, to whom God explained
in detail why he'd drowned the world.

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Jun 25 01:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Oh, huh, citationplz? Intriguing

Class: geofft Instance: church
Time: Mon Jun 25 01:57:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Although that still does not explain the flood itself, i.e., the
culpability of those who perished, nor, and I think more clearly,
Cain, who was told "sin is crouching at your door".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 01:58:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for BARISTAS! <geofft>

It tries to be, but ==htns it's better at using bike paths.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:01:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Also, "better". I biked from work (Redwood City) to Palo Alto today.
You want to take, like, three obvious and well-marked-as-bike-route
roads (Middlefield -> Willow -> Bryant). gmaps suggested like 15 dumb
turns

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:02:01 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Avoid excessive physical shock or vibration <yoz>

Gmaps really, really likes "bike paths".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:02:56 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: No passing zone <yoz>

One of my first suggestions when bike directions were in beta was to
optimize for fewer directions to follow. I don't think it ever
happened, sadly.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:03:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for MODELS! <geofft>

Every time I walk into a taqueria with a bike helmet and Timbuk2 bag
I feel like I might as well have walked in and yelled "HI I'M A
HIPSTER AND I DON'T SPEAK MEXICAN AND I KNOW MORE ABOUT COMPUTERS
THAN YOU."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:03:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

The confusing thing is those three roads _are_ bike routes. I guess
they're not bike paths, specifically, in that you share them with
cars.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:05:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Which isn't even true of Bryant, which has things every so often that
make it not a through road for cars but only for bikes / pedestrians.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:07:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Clearly you should carry a special set of taqueria clothes in your
bag.  "Cause that wouldn't be hipster at all"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:07:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, you nominally share Bryant with cars, but somebody was *really
enthusiastic* about making any car that tried to *actually* share it
with you regret that decision...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:07:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Right, Google prioritizes bike-only paths over roads with bike lanes.
Which, well, there are a lot of people who only bike recreationally
and are (justifiably) scared of cars

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:08:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The idea of taking Middlefield on a bike makes me automatically go
"that seems like a bad idea", but I think that's a consequence of
Middlefield having been the "big" streat when I was little...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:08:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for PANDAS! <geofft>

But they're not going anywhere! They don't need directions!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:09:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Middlefield north of Willow has a wide bike lane. South of it for a
bit it has I think only one lane each way, and impatient cars that
just took the Willow exit

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:10:53 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Exposure may cause skin irritation or lung damage <yoz>

Depending on where, Middlefield has bike lanes, is narrow and 1 lane,
or is wide and 1 lane.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jun 25 02:13:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

It's the right answer north, until you hit Redwood City, where it
loses its bike lane and gains another car lane (and commercial zoning
on both sides), and becomes suboptimal but no e.g. El Camino. Then you
hit downtown Redwood City, which is super-reasonable on bike, then it
ends.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 16:42:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for TWINKIES! <geofft>

SUCK IT, APPORT.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:06:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

SUCK IT, WINDOWS.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:06:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

SUCK IT, GOBJECT INTROSPECTION.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:06:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What have you gone and done _now_?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:07:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for PANDAS! <geofft>

Those last two thoughts were not particularly related.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:08:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

But apport was preventing me from noticing that our code was using GI
wrongly

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:10:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

The Windows complaint was that $sales_engineer was like "I have a
multimonitor bug" and actually it turned out that Windows had decided
to position her Excel ten pixels from the right side of the screen so
it didn't look like it was doing anything when she clicked on the
taskbar button

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:25:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

SUCK IT, FOURTH-GRADE ARITHMETIC.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:25:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:25:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What is it this time.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:26:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

"ValueError: 0 not in range -2147483648 to -2148483647"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:26:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:26:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

"ValueError: 0 not in range -2147483648 to 2148483647"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:26:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Which, as far as I can tell, is not actually true

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:43:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Oh, this ubuntu-devel thread is picking up...
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel/35523

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jun 25 17:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012, Matthew Garrett wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 04:26:20PM -0500, Jamie Strandboge wrote:
>
>> I was unaware that that Microsoft "volunteered to maintain dbx". Where
>> was this stated and how are they doing this exactly?
>
> This was discussed at the last plugfest.
>
>> How does an individual/OS vendor go about "providing the revocation
>> update" if Microsoft is maintaining dbx?
>
> We're planning on going over the fine details in Redmond next month.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:54:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

dr-wily:~ geofft$ who am i
dr-wily:~ geofft$

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:54:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"You don't exist, go away"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:54:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

who | grep geofft

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:55:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"who" is one of those commands that tries to list All The Users.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:57:05 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft: It's probably related to screen.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:57:35 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

quentin: Read the man page; this is sort of an ancient joke. =)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:58:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I know what it's supposed to do

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:58:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft:
greg@red-giant:~$ ssh price@linux.mit.edu -t who am i
Password: 
price    pts/694      2012-06-25 21:56 (173-13-135-107-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Connection to linux.mit.edu closed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 21:58:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You don't sound like you know what `who ARG1 ARG2' does.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jun 25 22:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Yeah, I think it's related to screen and wtmp in some annoying way.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 01:45:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

One of these days I should finish assembling my furniture

Class: geofft Instance: i,i
Time: Tue Jun 26 04:28:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

HTTP/1.1 143 Snorlax
Content-type: creature/pokemon
Content-disposition: asleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:07:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Ughh. Got to Caltrain only to realized that I failed to transfer the
contents of my pockets from yesterday's pants, so I could neither
board nor buy a ticket

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:07:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Oww. I've done that a bunch of times.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:07:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

So that was like an hour of biking in the midday sun. "yay"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:07:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

"I now compulsively slap each of my pockets as I leave my apartment, to
make sure there's stuff in them"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I usually do that

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

purses ftw

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

why can't I have a purse

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

you can! just call it a "messenger bag"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

technically....you can....

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Purses have to be... carried. "Maybe a fannie pack?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

No, messenger bags are too big

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

quentin: crossbody

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:08:45 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

==quentin

When I first got to MIT, I had a habit of leaving my keys in my room
until I started to slap my pockets before I left.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:09:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Well, keys are easy because I can't lock my front door without them.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:09:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Yeah, I'm fine with carrying it, it's just that I don't actually carry
my messenger bag everywhere, nor want to

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:09:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

I have my keys attached to my wallet for a reason.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:10:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

(Oftentimes I just want my iPad and not my laptop and a messenger bag
is too bulky #firstworldproblems)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:12:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PANDAS! <geofft>

So I can't actually put my wallet in my messenger bag because I don't
reliably have that bag. If I had a purse, I'd have it everywhere

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:13:02 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

There is the concept of "murse"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:13:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FARMERS! <geofft>

I mean, I think I just want to get an actual purse and go "gender
norms, what gender norms"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:13:52 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I just have a messenger bag and put all my stuff in it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

and you carry it everywhere?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:23 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:26 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

well, during the year

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:44 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I have a purse now because I don't need to bring a laptop. but you
could get a lighter-weight messenger bag

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

My problem is I don't carry it to e.g. lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:14:54 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I just hate that my messenger bag isn't structured so it's
uncomfortable to wear

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:00 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

I know a guy who bought a leather women's purse because it was the
perfect size for his gun and laptop.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Or even to the restroom, and I need to card back in to get to work, so
I need my wallet

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:12 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

over the shoulder things typically look less ridiculous

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:17 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you don't want an arm bag

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Someone else wants that, someone else will eat that... <eichin>

there was an "e-holster" thing years back, I think
they make similar wallet-holster things...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:15:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Maybe \exists a smaller Timbuk2 that I can just matroshka in my
current one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:53:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

The storylines of The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged blend together
in my head too much

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:54:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Also, I am curious how much Greenspan/Rand slash there is.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:54:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: we must not forget how to dream <jessiehl>

Thank you for that mental image, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jun 26 16:55:57 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Not quite what you were looking for, but http://archiveofourown.org/works/144814

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Jun 26 17:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

i,i "And if you're not in the Bay Area, why are you subbed to -c sipb
these days"

Class: geofft Instance: work.else
Time: Tue Jun 26 17:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for MARKETERS! <geofft>

oh crap, that reminds me that there are some things I wanted fixed in
this release that aren't release blockers. I should see if I can still
get them fixed without making QA hate me for committing on the release
branch

Class: geofft Instance: things-that-are-not-an-open-source-license,-partial-list
Time: Tue Jun 26 17:59:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

//  Copyright __MyCompanyName__ 2010. All rights reserved.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 18:59:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I have no primary audio output device and I must scream.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 18:59:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

scream | /dev/null

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jun 26 20:34:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

-> food

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:39:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I don't understand this "meet romantic partners in bars" meme one
bit. All you know about a person at that point is how physically
attractive they seem to be in crappy light, and that they have no
better way to spend their free time than getting drunk with strangers.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:40:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Presumably people who meet this way are generally fine with drinking
in bars?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:40:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

I think tangentially I don't understand the "ask a girl for her
number" meme. I feel like if I know enough about someone to decide
whether I want their number, I should already have at least one
reliable contact number for them

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:41:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I mean, I don't inherently object to other people finding people like
themselves, except I can't imagine it's a solid basis for a
relationship

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:41:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

If you're at a party-or-something, really hit it off with someone, and
spend the entire night talking to them, you might be interested but
not have their number :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:42:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I don't think the ways people initially meet are generally solid
bases for relationships.  It's just how they initially meet.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:43:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

It's not like, if you get someone's number, you're obligated to do
anything with it. You can just call them maybe.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:43:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

That's different. If you're at the same party, you probably actually
have a concrete bit of information e.g.
"$person_who_organized_the_party knows both of us and thinks we're
both cool people". Also I rarely hear people whining about how they
try t meet partners at parties and have no luck.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:44:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I mean, okay, you hit it off at a bar with someone in the same manner.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:45:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

(I don't know if that's generally what happens, having not looked for
SO's in bars, but that's what I generally think people are hoping for)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:45:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I haven't done this either, but I thought you usually are expected to
express plausible interest by finding a person out of nowhere and
buying them a drink or something

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:46:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I *think* most people I know seem to have gone through a progression
along the lines of strangers -> acquaintance/friend through some
shared activity for several weeks or months -> SO. This doesn't
really seem to be the approach promoted by, like, TV, which confuses
me a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:46:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Historical Impersonations <nelhage>

You should feel free to ignore anything you learn about meeting
people from pop culture, AFAICT.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

"Well, someone has to make the first move"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:46:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

==adehnert

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:47:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Nelson: I'm not attempting to abide by this advice, I'm just confused
why people take it in earnest and expect it to work.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:47:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

(And I'm curious what effect it has on, like, our divorce rate, which
is a social problem)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:47:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I'm also slightly unclear how one telegraphs the desire to do the
friend->SO, but at least that seems more reasonable in principle than
the encounter in bar -> SO process.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:48:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I think the expectation is bar -> dating to see what the other is like
-> SO if it works out

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:49:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

And you do a bunch of iterations and eventually hopefully succeed?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:49:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

Yep

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:50:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I say this as someone who has never actually searched for potential
SO's in a bar, but that's my impression of how it works

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:50:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Hrm. I think there's a related problem in that I have a bunch of female
friends I'm not interested in dating, and not having them as friends
would make me lonelier in a way that would probably make me actually
frustrated about not having a girlfriend. So dating people and the end
states being SO or nothing seems like a remarkably inefficient and
lonelifying way to approach the problem

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:51:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

And you would hate your life less if you spent that time just making
friends, in social environments that are likely to make friends.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:51:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==nelhage on "Just accept that most people are idiots and stop
questioning it."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:51:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm serious

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:52:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

But it bothers me when these idiots influence society.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:53:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

You only do this with hot chicks, everyone else can be your friend?
Or fewer opposite-sex friends?  Dunno.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:53:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

(It's like the xkcd about creationist congressmen)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:53:21 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

so discourage those people from voting somehow.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:54:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

You can't make opposite-sex friends by buying them drinks in bars and
getting their number. Mostly because _they_ have no interest in having
opposite-sex friends.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:54:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I was answering the "I'd be sad not having these people as my
friends", not suggesting that the bar route is for finding SO's and
friends of the opposite sex

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:56:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

But if I spend my time at bars finding hot chicks (or sexy guys or
whatever), I have no time to make normal friends.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:57:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <wings>

I don't think this is a work->bar->sleep daily cycle :P

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:57:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for SURGEONS! <geofft>

eip context is http://whysfreallyisthatbad.com/ , but this was a
thought in my head earlier today that that site reminded me of

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:58:08 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

if you were in this city, things would be pretty easy. you use
twitter. you show up at tweetups. you meet bunches of awesome people,
some of whom share your interests, some of whom are single (or know
likely compatible friends who are). you try. maybe it works. maybe
not. likely you are still friends if not; regardless, you find other
opportunities.

sadly for me, this didn't exist yet when i was single. i did ok
anyway. 

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 21:59:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

She's complaining about not being able to find people at bars while
everyone she sees is in happy relationships. I think this is evidence
that the people who would be good at relationships have better ways to
enter them than bars / clubs / etc.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:00:16 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, or that the way you find a relationship at a bar is meeting
people you know and thus their friends who are also there.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:01:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

That seems reasonable, and the party exception Piper brought up
earlier. I think she's going to bars solo and expecting to find sexy,
socially well-adjusted, young guys with no friends either.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:02:00 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

unless they happen to be there waiting to meet someone(s), unlikely.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:04:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Guy biked up to where I was about to unlock my bike and leave, and
instead of locking his bike, asked me to watch it and told the "it's
driving me nuts" joke

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:04:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What joke?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:06:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

What did the pirate with a steering wheel in his pants say?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 22:09:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:28:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) You told it badly. It goes:

A pirate with a steering wheel attached to the front of his pants walks into a bar
and orders a drink. The bartender says "OK, buddy, but first, I've
just gotta ask: what's with the wheel?" The pirate replies "Arrrr,
it's drivin' me nuts!"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:30:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Variations on this theme include:

A nanotech matter pirate walks into a bar with a replicator attached
to the front of his pants. The bartender says 'OK, buddy, but first,
I've just gotta ask: what the hell is that on your pants?' The pirate
replies, 'Arr, it's makin' me nuts!'"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:30:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This latter one is, of course, the pirate joke of the future.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

++++++

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:31:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

(But the guy who left his bike unlocked skipped the bit about the bar
and ordering a drink)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:31:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitstaff, try
the veal.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Jun 26 23:32:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, he told it badly, then. That part's important for pacing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 27 05:51:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Home by the SamTrans "all-nighter" bus that runs from Palo Alto to SF
via El Camino, the airpprt, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 27 05:53:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Sitting on a bus for 75 minutes reading about Objective-C is a
surprisingly pleasant experience. Being dropped off three blocks from
home is less surprisingly but no less pleasant.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 27 06:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I've taken that bus from SFO to SF a few times late at night.  It
really is a pleasant choice; it's even cheaper than BART.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 27 17:03:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

That is why I wear a vest

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jun 27 17:09:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like that is kind of an obvious thing to wonder though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 18:09:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

The Objective-C runtime is pretty awesome. I haven't decided whether
it's awesome or Awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 18:11:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Among other things, [super foo] translates into
objc_msgSendSuper((struct objc_super){this, the superclass},
@selector(foo)).... i.e., you tell the runtime what the superclass is.
So afaict you can totally get the runtime to call methods from one
class on an object of another class.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 18:11:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Also, there is an object_setClass() function.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 18:31:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

NEED MORE COMPUTRONS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 18:32:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Oh hey, I do have two free switch ports

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:22:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for PANDAS! <geofft>

WE GET SIGNAL

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:22:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

MAIN SCREEN TURN ON

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:23:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Hmm. Is that the main screen? I would have called that the secondary
screen...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:52:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

wut, this BIOS has a mouse driver

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for MARKETERS! <geofft>

like it's a normal text BIOS, except... you can click on stuff. if you
can deal with the crappy mouse driver.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:52:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Also, it comes with virtualization off and "Turbo Mode" on. I hate
computers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:52:44 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

This is as opposed to the Win95 BIOS?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:53:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Yeah, this is a Lenovo ThinkCentre, uh, M91P? and has a perfectly
normal Lenovo-looking BIOS in 80x25 text mode

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:54:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Turbo Mode"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:55:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

"Enable/Disable Turbo Mode to allow the processor to assess its own
thermals,current and power to come up with a dynamic upper limit on
itts frequeccy benefit."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:55:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

[sic]

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 19:59:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Virtualization off by default is pretty much the standard, AFAICT. I
think the vendors are afraid of rootkits virtualizing Windows out from
under you or something like that.

Class: geofft Instance: elsewhere-in-irc
Time: Wed Jun 27 20:31:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

I can't help but think this "free software" / "GPL" thing is one
person's personal vendetta against a crappy printer driver taken way
too far

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 20:32:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The Cheap-Laughs <nelhage>

I hate security people.

Class: geofft Instance: elsewhere-in-irc
Time: Wed Jun 27 20:33:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Mind you, I have no objection to personal vendettas against crappy
drivers! but still.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:03:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Hm, I should go eat $meal

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:06:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Okay, I have too many computers. It would be nice if I could make them
all on the same computer somehow. Maybe some sort of "virtual machine"
technology?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:06:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Dunno if such a thing exists.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:06:40 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Sounds unreliable and expensive.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:07:27 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned; but the damn kids were on my lawn again. -pbaranay <ismith>

Almost like he has his head in the clouds.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:14:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Also, I have too many mice.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:14:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

... ... can we get a cat?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I kind of want a cat at work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:14:49 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I've often wondered about the merits of an office cat.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:15:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The alien is always smarter than you, but the user is always dumber than you. -kaduk <ismith>

*cringes*

I love cats in theory, and had one as a kid, but am deathly allergic
to them.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:15:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for BARISTAS! <geofft>

My boss has a cat-sized dog that was at work two weeks ago (when his
wife was out of town or something?). It sits on desks and such.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I'm still confused by workplaces allowing pets (like Google and dogs)
because so many people seem badly allergic.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:17:29 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

Actually bad alergies to dogs are uncommon, in my
experience. Also if pets are infrequent visitors it's less
of an issue.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:17:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

With Google, at least, my impression is that this is "you can have
your dog at your desk every day".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:18:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

MIT has dogs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:18:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

That sentence seems ambiguous.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:24:16 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: My favorite part of functional programming is that it sounds like all other programming is dysfunctional. -geofft <ismith>

What tibbetts said, plus the use of service dogs.  (I have encountered
one or two service cats, but they are not at all common.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:25:26 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: (the unicorns live in his bladder) -wings <ismith>

My allergy pattern seems to be fairly common: I am allergic to both
dogs and cats, but while being *around* a cat may cause a reaction (or
in a room where a cat frequently is), dogs are not a problem unless I
rub my face in them.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:28:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Also, one of my six monitors actually doesn't work, so I'm down to
five, and I need a sixth monitor :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:28:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I'm confused how the existance of service dogs implies that it makes
sense to allow pet dogs in the same places?  If dog allergies are much
less likely to be a problem, that does explain how service dogs avoid
causing serious allergy issues, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:29:07 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Colorless green ideas can has furious sleepage. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:29:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

monitor: um.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:29:49 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: everyone ends up in the Bay Area in steady state, and the transients are boring -geofft <ismith>

I'm suggesting that, in addition to dogs being less problematic in
general, there may be dogs present regardless of desirability of such,
in which case allowing pets is less of a change.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*nod*  I'd think that, if they were a problem, you'd still want to
minimize them as much as possible?  But if they're not a significant
problem, that presumably doesn't matter.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jun 27 21:31:38 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I provide the Japanese, Ian provides the linguistics. -zhangc <ismith>

*shug*  Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:08:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

RARGH

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:08:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

GEOFFT SMASH GRAPHICS CARD

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:08:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

NOW GEOFFT HAVE TWO PROBLEM

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:09:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Naw, I can also smash all our cutomers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:10:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go home and go to bed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:16:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Come in,” Ashen says. (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

[stark] I think there's a general principle at Google of "we like
dogs, but don't be a jerk".  I'd expect people to reasonably
accomodate people with allergies or dog phobias, but that needing to
do so is rare in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:18:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Hm, I failed to eat $meal three hours ago

Class: geofft Instance: #ubuntu-devel.q
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:23:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

"Yeah, that's your driver shouting obsceneties at your card."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:49:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

aaaaaargh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:49:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

I think one of my least favorite things in the world is to debug
why foo isn't doing bar, and then realize that a while ago the
previous maintainer of the code decided that foo shouldn't bar

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:52:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Heh, sent an email to the list subject "I hate our [this subsystem] code
sometimes", and $coworker replies with

http://coderoom.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/7-reasons-to-hate-your-code/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 00:54:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

http://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/07/if-you-arent-embarrassed-by-v10-you-didnt-release-it-early-enough/

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Thu Jun 28 02:37:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

"""
BTW, if you don't mind, we would like to officially release 2.14.0 on
29th of June, at 00:00:00 JST.

29th in every month is called as "Niku No Hi".  It means "the day of
meat".  29 is pronunced as "Ni Ku" in Japanese, and "Ni Ku" also means
"meat".

Some Japanese developers aim to release their software in the day.

It is a kind of culture. :-)
"""

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:20:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Blah. My laptop won't stay connected to my 4G thingamabobber over wifi
for more than like a minute at a time. This happens on both a Precise
live CD and on Wheezy, and happens whether or not I have wireless
security

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:20:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

my iPad connects and stays connected just fine. Fortunately there's a
USB port so I can just use that for my laptop, and use wifi just for
my iPad, but this is still annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:20:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Especially because the thingamabobber is itself Linux!

Class: geofft Instance: bad-puns
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:23:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for PILOTS! <geofft>

I have a brilliant name for an alternative to StackOverflow where
both the code is open source and the content is CC-BY-SA: DoubleFree.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-puns
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:24:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: bad-puns
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:24:50 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Iguanas can stay underwater for twenty-eight point seven minutes. <asedeno>

hah!

Class: geofft Instance: bad-puns
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:26:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That's pretty good!

Class: geofft Instance: bad-puns
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:26:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

"now if only someone would create the site"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:38:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

"I'm proud to announce the release of GNU GRUB version 2.00.

"Since this version has a round number it has been paid special
attention to, and hopefully, represents higher quality."

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:38:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is... that... actually a quote?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:38:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2012-06/msg00093.html

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:39:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for COUGARS! <geofft>

GRUB can now boot Plan 9, NT, and OS X Lion.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:39:32 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

Is this the version with the insanely complicated configuration
syntax?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:39:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

... and has TFTP, HTTP, and DNS support?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:39:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for MODELS! <geofft>

When did GRUB turn into iPXE?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:40:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that teleport traps are the devil's work.
 <rnjacobs>

"Eventually all bootloaders grow to include an email client^W^W^Wnetboot"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:40:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, so GRUB2 released what others might call v1.0?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:40:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for COUGARS! <geofft>

... Yes, I guess you could call GRUB 2.00 "GRUB 2 1.0"

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:41:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sounds like I don't have to care about this until October at least

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:41:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Okay what's this about broccoli

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:43:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Ashen shakes his head vigorously. “I’m a loyal American!” (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

The government's going to mandate that you buy broccoli, geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jun 28 15:45:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

It can't mandate that you buy broccoli, since the Commerce Clause
rationale was rejected by the court.  It can, however, tax you for
not being in a state of owning broccoli.

Class: geofft Instance: clyde
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:06:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

ztoys / clyde / codetaku  2012-06-28 13:00  (fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer)
    clyde, if geofft and obama were in a fight, who would win?
ztoys / clyde / UNAUTH: clyde  2012-06-28 13:00  (Clyde)
    I think that obama would win, because obama can fly!
ztoys / clyde / geofft  2012-06-28 13:04  (So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for GYNECOLOGISTS!)
    clyde, if Obama and Sebastian Thrun were in a fight, who would win?
ztoys / clyde / UNAUTH: clyde  2012-06-28 13:04  (Clyde)
    I think that obama would win, because obama can fly!
ztoys / clyde / geofft  2012-06-28 13:05  (So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for TEXTBOOKS!)
    clyde, if Obama and someone who flies better than Obama were in a
    fight, who would win?
ztoys / clyde / UNAUTH: clyde  2012-06-28 13:05  (Clyde)
    I think that someone who flies better than obama would win, because someone who
    flies better than obama can fly!

Class: geofft Instance: suid_dumpable
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:14:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Oooh. Kees added a suid_dumpable mode 3 that forces things to go to
the coredump pipe or else nowhere. I think this blocks a "wait, why
is it doing that, that feels unsafe" involving how apport sets
suid_dumpable that I pointed out to him at UDS (although I don't think
there's any actual vulnerability in apport as deployed).
https://lwn.net/Articles/503315/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:30:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Apparently our upgrade code doesn't handle downgrades. I guess that's
reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:33:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

mount: could not find any free loop device

Class: geofft Instance: suid_dumpable
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:43:48 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Whee, CVE-2006-2451.

Class: geofft Instance: suid_dumpable Opcode: auto
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:43:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2006-2451 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

CVE ticket CVE-2006-2451: [RHBZ] CVE-2006-2451 Possible privilege escalation through prctl() and suid_dumpable

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:46:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What are you doing to the poor thing...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:54:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

/dev/loop0 on /mnt type iso9660 (rw)
/dev/loop1 on /tmp/a type iso9660 (rw)
/dev/loop2 on /tmp/b type iso9660 (ro)
/dev/loop3 on /tmp/c type squashfs (ro)
/dev/loop4 on /tmp/d type iso9660 (ro)
/dev/loop5 on /tmp/e type squashfs (ro)
/dev/loop6 on /tmp/f type iso9660 (rw)
/dev/loop7 on /tmp/g type iso9660 (ro)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:55:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:57:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

that's... um... many.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

There's a parameter for loop.ko that will solve this problem for you.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I thought so, but I don't seem to have that inserted...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm surprised it's not dynamicly allocated.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

That toooooo!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Then there's a kernel command line parameter for you.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I don't want to reboot :(

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:59:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

hack something up with Ksplice?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:59:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

That sounds like using Ksplice, which doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 16:59:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

kspli-- ==oremanj

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:00:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Ksplice only works if you trust these holy relics that come from the
Temple of the Oracle. You can't make updates yourself. What are you, a
Protestant?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:00:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

but what about the legend of the valiant interns that walked away
enlightened?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:00:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for TRAVELING! <geofft>

"Their enlightenment was under NDA"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:01:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Also, I'm not particularly feeling enlightened, NDA or not

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:02:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Oh hm, there's a LOOP_SET_CAPACITY ioctl.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:03:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'm pretty sure you could successfully write this update if you chose to.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:03:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

wait, not that.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:03:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Really? Last time I tried to write an Ubuntu update (which was '09,
admittedly), there were some dumb toolchain issues

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:04:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

I think Debian is the only OS for which you don't need the Ksplice
internal folklore about how to solve your dumb toolchain issues in
order to build updates. _Maybe_ Fedora, too

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:04:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Dumb toolchain issues...? Aren't...all of the kernels built by the
latest native gcc...?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:05:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

You're welcome to try and tell me if you can get it to work!

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:05:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I have no idea how to prepare a ksplice update...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:05:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Man, you got to work on the Holies when you were an intern?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:06:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Who are you asking? I didn't

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:07:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. I assumed you did.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:08:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Charwoman <nelhage>

IIRC, you can just do the mknod

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:08:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...there's a fedora-ksplice package that claims to "just work"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:08:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Hm,
        /*
         * If max_loop is specified, create that many devices upfront.
         * This also becomes a hard limit. If max_loop is not specified,
         * create CONFIG_BLK_DEV_LOOP_MIN_COUNT loop devices at module
         * init time. Loop devices can be requested on-demand with the
         * /dev/loop-control interface, or be instantiated by accessing
         * a 'dead' device node.
         */

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:08:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Most Awful Family in Britain (co-written by Neil Innes) <nelhage>

The parameter used to be a hard limit, but now it's just how many
devices it tells udev to create

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:09:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Splitting a railway carriage with his nose <nelhage>

for i in {8..255}; do mknod /dev/loop$i b 7 $i; done
should work, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:09:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Sgt. Duckie's Song – Police entry for Eurovision Song Contest <nelhage>

Or something similar but actually tested

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:09:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Wait, am I allowed to mknod in the udev world? Shouldn't I be telling
the kernel to mknod and pass it off to udev?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:09:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  "Ypres 1914" (abandoned) <nelhage>

It'll work.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:10:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Court (phrasebook) <nelhage>

broder might frown at you or something, but it'll work.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:10:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Father-in-Law <nelhage>

It won't persist across a reboot

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:10:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PILOTS! <geofft>

Yeah, seems to work. Awesome, thanks

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:10:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Brian Islam and Brucie (animation) <nelhage>

(I definitely don't have any servers with hundreds of active loop
devices)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:11:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  The Man Who Speaks Only the Middles of Words <nelhage>

(That would be silly)

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:12:36 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Starfury, a PPG and a Gund. <eichin>

any chance that this is the networkmanager/ipv6 thing?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:21:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Hmmmm. I'll blacklist ipv6 and see what happens

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:24:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What's the "networkmanager/ipv6 thing"?

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:24:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Also there's no one else on his tethering device to be sending bogus
IPv6 routes.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless.d
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:24:35 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

The time I had to blacklist AAAA queries was obnoxious.

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:39:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Ducati, an H&K and a Gund. <eichin>

I had networkmanager (under precise) decide that
since it couldn't get ipv6 (on whatever ISP my mom has) that clearly
it hadn't gotten wifi up and should drop it and try again.  Meant I
got about 30s of net before having it shot out from under me :)

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 17:40:03 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do you need?  Goats.  Lots of goats. <eichin>

and it turns out there's an nm-specific .conf
file that it creates for each AP, that you can edit the ipv6 defaults
out of

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 18:11:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Right, ==eichin is the bug I heard

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 18:11:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

(probably from him...)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Thu Jun 28 18:12:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/qa/qa1118/

wat

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Thu Jun 28 18:44:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat indeed

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Thu Jun 28 18:45:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Which parts are you guys wating at (so much wat)

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 28 20:38:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

"defense in breadth"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 28 20:38:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

We have thousands of servers! You can only hack into one of them at a
time!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Thu Jun 28 20:39:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

until you have a mass management system...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:05:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

our code is made of wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:06:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for MARKETERS! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:06:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

It's possible for our hypervisor to be both kvm and virtualbox at the
same time???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:06:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for TWINKIES! <geofft>

We don't even support _either of those_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:07:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um? How does the code indicate this...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:08:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PILOTS! <geofft>

There's a codepath that can theoretically set both the is_kvm and
is_virtualbox booleans to true.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:08:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Why do we have _either_ of those booleans

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 21:08:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Let alone a codepath that can trigger them both

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:09:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Whoa, Google released a thing called "Chrome" for iOS.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:10:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

This is impressive, because the App Store regulations say that you
can't bring your own Turing machine _nor_ HTML renderer, and must use
the built-in WebKit library the platform offers you, and because the
sandbox prevents you from JITing.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:10:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

From running Sunspider, there appears there's actually no JITing going
on -- the benchmark is about as slow as with Dolphin browser.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:11:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Right,I thought iOS Chrome was "a WebKit HTML widget" plus some other
stuff

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:11:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for TRAVELING! <geofft>

i.e., what's impressive is that Google decided to sully their "Chrome"
brand with something that doesn't use a renderer that Google has the
slightest control over, and is also way slower than Mobile Safari, let
alone anything deserving of the name

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:11:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

and doesn't use V8, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:13:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Unless it's "Wow, I use Chrome everywhere and it's awesome, but sucks
on my iPhone, I guess I should get an Android phone for my next
upgrade"

Class: geofft Instance: ios Opcode: twitter
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:13:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FARMERS! <geofft>

Mobile Safari on my iPad gets 1800 ms on the Sunspider JS benchmark
(lower=better). Dolphin Browser gets 7350 ms; "Chrome", 7300.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:13:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

It's not even Chrome! It's UIWebView with Chrome bookmark sync.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

It's the moral equivalent of Google Chrome the Firefox extension.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:14:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: - Oh look, it's the wizard of oz! - Well, it is the emerald city... I mean the machine city... <eichin>

except for that whole "you can't actually get it on 90+% of android either"

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Which would suck, which is why they didn't release it. It's not even
Chrome Tab.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:14:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: telescopic peep <eichin>

"if it can't run tinkercad, it's not interesting"

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:16:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

> You've gone incognito*.
> 
> Pages you view in this tab won't appear in your browser history,
> and they won't leave cookies behind. Bookmarks you create will be
> preserved, however.
> 
> Going incognito* doesn't affect the behavior of other people,
> servers, or software. Be wary of surveillance by secret agents or
> people standing behind you. Learn more about incognito browsing.
> 
> *For technical reasons, Google Chrome cannot prevent sites you visit
> in incognito* from using local storage to track your visits.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:17:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Enjoy your porn"

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:17:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Fisher-Price My First AFS Cell <eichin>

"there's a reason it's trenchcoat-mode" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:19:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

"Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X; en-us)
AppleWebKit/534.46.0 (KHTML, like Gecko) CriOS/19.0.1084.60
Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3"

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:19:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

What the bing is CriOS. You just made that up.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:19:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for MODELS! <geofft>

Is that... CrOS for iOS? That's not a thing. That's impossible to be a
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:20:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>What the bing

Why are you helping make that a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:20:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

It doesn't even support TLS client certs

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:21:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: How could you possibly think typing 'import skynet' was a good idea? <eichin>

I think the idea was "don't actually say chrome, so
things that check the user-agent aren't convinced either"

Class: geofft Instance: ios
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:23:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

...... if I go to chrome.google.com it wants me to download the Linux
package.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:58:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Apparently if you cat over a library while it's in use, the app using
it crashes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:59:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit <nelhage>

Yeah, because it's mapped MAP_SHARED

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 22:59:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

(I was trying to update a library via ssh my-dev-box cat foo.so | sudo
sh -c 'cat > /usr/lib/foo.so')

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:00:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Next Item (or dish)... <nelhage>

Actually, I'm not sure that that matters, I think MAP_PRIVATE will do
the same.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:00:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Court Charades <nelhage>

I mean, it makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:10:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

nspluginwrapper used to crash browsers when it updated for exactly
this reason. (Actually, I'm not sure I ever got around to making a
stable release with the fix...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:10:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:10:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

This is what rm is for

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:12:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I should maybe eat food

Class: geofft Instance: wireless
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:12:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Oh, also if I plug my thingamabobber into the live CD, it seems to
crash it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:13:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, go yell at the previous author. That whole setup is a mess
since there's two pieces to every plugin that have to be kept in
sync, and dpkg can only manage one of them. If I still cared, I'd
redo it to bypass dpkg on the other half.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jun 28 23:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

-> Palo Alto by bike

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:33:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Zephyr, how would you design a good language to replace PHP and
attract most of its current user base (or at least potential new
users)?

"Come up with Python or Ruby" has empirically been shown to be
insufficient, although fairly successful

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:35:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Any such language has to carefully pander to the, "Well, it worked on
that one input, so it works on everything" while doing so in a safe way.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:36:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

and getting it to work on one input has to be comparably easy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:48:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I want mosh for Cisco VPN

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:48:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Huh, is that a defining property of PHP?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for HUNTERS! <geofft>

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by that, since that seems
positively correlated with type safety.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:51:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Poet McTeagle <nelhage>

Of course it is, it's a property Edward wants out of a language.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 14:53:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for BEER! <geofft>

But the trick with the PHP killer is, if at all it's type-safe, it
can't tell the user that.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jun 29 15:56:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Oooh.
http://ben.debian.net/

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jun 29 15:58:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jun 29 15:58:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

So, clearly there needs to be a package-building system
called geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 16:47:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I think the defining property of PHP is that it’s not a framework:
you can just start with what looks like an HTML file and insert code
at random points.  This is a terrible idea, but it’s really
seductive.  It lowers the activation energy required for throwing
together a simple dynamic website to almost zero.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 16:48:19 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

This is actually a wonderful idea that computer scientists
(including me) don't know how to appreciate yet.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 16:52:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The fact that most frameworks let me type one command that explodes
itself into a tree of dozens of skeleton files doesn’t really negate
this effect for me.  Those trees are still disproportionately
unwieldy for a simple application.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 16:53:28 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

I am skeptical of the technique of having framework
commands that stage up a lot of boilerplate.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:20:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Vox Pops on Full Frontal Nudity <nelhage>

It is a popular technique, but it seems pretty clearly wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:21:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Arthur 'Two Sheds' Jackson <nelhage>

(It's possible it's a passable compromise in the absense of better
technology)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:31:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

====andersk, I hate boilerplate generation.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:31:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

"Maybe we need dh7 for Rails"

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:32:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not subbed there, context?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:32:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

But yeah, I feel like a hard requirement of PHP-killer must be that
it's an HTML file with some special tags that occasionally do things,
and it falls back to just being HTML if you don't need it to do
things.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:32:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

The amount of code needed to do static file serving in ~any Python or
Ruby framework is absurd (because it's more than zero)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:34:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think Rack::Static lets you do it in about two lines, including the
"require 'rack'" in Ruby.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:34:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

glasgall:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/06/the-php-singularity.html
http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
http://www.phpwtf.org/
kyoki / personal / kyoki  2012-06-29 10:11  (I don't even have a fucking zsig.)
    oh god, I have had exactly this argument come up in an discussion with a
    coworker about why PHP sucks:
    Do not tell me that “good developers can write good code in any language”, or
    bad developers blah blah. That doesn’t mean anything. A good carpenter can drive
    in a nail with either a rock or a hammer, but how many carpenters do you see
    bashing stuff with rocks? Part of what makes a good developer is the ability to
    choose the tools that work best.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:35:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am aware that PHP is a fractal singularity of bad design. My opinion
along these lines has been expressed before :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jun 29 17:40:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PANDAS! <geofft>

So, basically, it's like THE DEBATHENA NOTES FILE for MOKAFIVE!

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:52:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

(e) Section 7 (“Representations and Warranties”) of the Agreement is
hereby amended to include the following as Section 7(h):
(h) Solely with respect to any Company Product that is a UEFI
operating system bootloader (but not any other type of Company
Product), Company represents and warrants that such UEFI operating
system bootloader is not, and when delivered to Microsoft will not
be, in whole or in part, governed by any Excluded License that
requires, as a condition of the exercise of any rights granted in
software subject to the Excluded License, that authorization keys or
other methods, procedures or information required to install or
execute modified versions of such software be disclosed or otherwise
made available.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:52:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

So, GPLv3 bootloaders can't do secure boot.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:53:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Which is interesting / unfortunate, since we were apparently just
blocking on FSF saying "we don't interpret GPLv3 that way, the onus is
not on you to disclose a key if someone else sucks at making secure
boot disableable"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:54:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hahaha I like this theory that the FSF would ever say anything
reasonable about license interpretation

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Yeah, that too

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:56:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for FARMERS! <geofft>

Anyway, fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:57:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for THE ARMY! <geofft>

I was hoping that at least MokaFive would get to not care, since
nothing anyone runs BareMetal on is a "User Product", or something.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:57:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

(since "User Product" is defined as home use)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 18:59:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/p/windows-logo-uefi-amendment.pdf, if anyone's
curious

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:00:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Oh hey, IRC points out that the shim loader probably saves us.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:01:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Since the shim is the actual UEFI bootloader?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:01:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Though, um, if grub2 is still using UEFI boot services...

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:01:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

MS doesn't need to sign grub2.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:01:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

This is just about what the thing provided to MS is

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:02:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, this is the-yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jun 29 19:19:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Anyway, I now have a thick stack of legal documents to find someone
to sign before I get a working bootloader. I guess that's progress

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:39:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for TWINKIES! <geofft>

"We also constrain x86 prefix usage to only allow known useful
instructions. Empirically we have found that this eliminates certain
denial-of-service vulnerabilities related to CPU errata."

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:39:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Oh x86, what would we ever do without you.

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:52:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Not have computers have become relevant due to perpetual lack of backwards
compatibility"

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:57:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for THE ARMY! <geofft>

I wonder if there would be any advantage in porting, say, qemu to
NaCl.

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:58:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Expedition to Lake Pahoe <nelhage>

"Other than in a 'yo-dawg' kinda way?"

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 20:59:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Well, you can then run unmodified x86 executables fairly well
sandboxed, and virtunoid attacks become hopefully tons harder.

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:02:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

That said, apparently NaCl itself has a ptrace sandbox around it and a
Chrome App Store around that, so...

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:02:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

It might be time to start championing "Security By Yo Dawg" as a
phrase.

Class: geofft Instance: nacl
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:03:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: The Audit <nelhage>

++

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:13:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Ubuntu Dapper Drake
Ulrich Drepper Drake

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:15:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ha

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:25:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ultimate Debian Database

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:27:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

I mean, if we're talking about acronyms, I always get that confused
with Ubuntu Distributed Development (`bzr get lp:ubuntu/$package`)

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:40:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:40:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I have to go to plus.google.com _three times_ to see my home screen

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:40:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

The first time it doesn't show me anything and wants to tell me to
"get started"; the second time it wants to tell me about G+ Events or
whatever crap

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:42:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sets In Motion <kchen>

The Events screen should be one-time only, and there should be a
button you can click instead of going to plus.google.com again
(although I guess I'm not completely sure about that, since I only saw
it once).

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Fri Jun 29 21:43:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: You're No Fun Any More <nelhage>

Did you know that G+ is also now at least 50% more like real life?

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:42:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I feel like a recommendation engine for academic papers has to be
easy. Take the papers I find interesting, look at their citations,
find other papers that cite those, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:42:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Maybe throw some social networking on there and show me papers my
friends like, or something

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:43:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Yes, I don't understand why this has not happened yet.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:45:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

i,i "Mostly because the closest thing to social webapps that
academics can write is HotCRP, which is so notoriously insecure that
there have been several papers published on how to secure it"

Class: geofft Instance: papers.d
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:45:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Edward, when do you start being in town?

Class: geofft Instance: papers.d
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:45:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

End of August.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:45:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Are academics really that bad at writing code? FUCK.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:46:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Mendeley keeps fumbling this. I don't know what the fuck they are doing.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:46:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

"how to make academics write better code" is an interesting
discussion, but a different one :)

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:46:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

LIke, they have the data, but as far as I can tell they have failed to
make any meaningful advancements in the last year.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Huh, I hadn't actually heard of it. Looks promising.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:47:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Looks closed-source, too.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:47:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

They have this "Mendeley Suggest" thing, but they misunderstand what
researchers are actually looking for when they're looking for related
papers.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:47:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Yeah, it's closed source.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:48:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for BEER! <geofft>

They... have a profit model?

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:48:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

"No."

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:48:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

You can pay them to get private bins of papers for your working group.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:49:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for BARISTAS! <geofft>

How are they venture-funded and hiring like a startup, then?

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:49:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From:  Prices on the Planet Algon <nelhage>

"bubble"

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:49:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

"Who said you needed a profit model to be venture funded"

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 22:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FARMERS! <geofft>

Point

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:11:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Welcome to where time stands still. No one leaves and no one will. <anusinha>

There's a large movement of services like Mendeley. Others are 
ResearchGate, and Academia.edu. Mendeley has a really nice service    
though and it's more paper-focused and I use for a lot of things. The
social aspect is minimal, at best. ResearchGate has a quora-like forum
thing (but more academic questions), which is sort of cool but doesn't
actually do anything to recommend papers.

Class: geofft Instance: papers
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:12:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

/r/academia was harshing on ResearchGate recently for shady promotion
practices

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:14:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

blah, tell us if you're five minutes delayed so I can get food

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:14:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

aha, there it is

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:16:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I totally had time to get dinner :(

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:35:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for MARKETERS! <geofft>

... did we just get passed by a faster northbound train? wat

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:38:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

express vs local, no?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:38:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I'll make a vow, I'll make a promise -- For seven long years I will make it stand <kdrinkwa>

Isn't Caltrain only one track in either direction for most of its
length?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:38:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Come saddle me my milk-white steed -- Come saddle me my pony <kdrinkwa>

Are you at that bit with all the tracks near Redwood City?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:38:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I bemoan the state of American passenger rail.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:40:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

No, we're San Mateo / Burlingame. And the last express-ish train was
over an hour ago...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:40:26 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: If you don't answer my questions nine, sing ninety-nine and ninety <kdrinkwa>

Huh, I was not aware of any multi-track sections up there because I
rarely went north of Belmont.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:40:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Right, there aren't...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:41:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

we just got passed by a faster northbound train (well after the last
express train) _using the southbound track_

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:41:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Hence, wat.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Fri Jun 29 23:50:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Is the only way to get an archived mailing list for a package to sign
up for an Alioth project?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Jun 30 01:31:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Woo, they fixed my dpkg bug!

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sat Jun 30 01:31:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Which, hm, means rleigh can fix sbuild, and then Debathena's
repository will magically fix itself?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:32:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Sigh, my bike's front brakes seem not to have enjoyed that Muni ride.
(Which, given where the wheel restraint goes, isn't incredibly
surprising.)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:33:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Also someone seems to have painted things on the road to indicate the
Wiggle. Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:33:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wiggle?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:34:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

The zigzag path that takes you from, uh, Castroish to the Lower Haight
with ~flat roads

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:34:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

cleverly bypassing hills on both sides

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:35:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It has official street signs, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wiggle

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Wheel restraint on a bus?  (Hm, do they have those on light rail
vehicles? I don't think so)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

The bike rack thing that folds down from the front of a bus.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:37:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Right.  Any tips for how to use one and not have it fuck up your bike?
I didn't know they caused trouble like that.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:38:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for BEER! <geofft>

They usually don't.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Where by "usually" I mean I've taken them like 4 times

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:39:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've done it like twice! So between the two of us, figure like half a
dozen successes per failure...

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:39:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I have done it like twice as well.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:39:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Also my bike is too big to fit properly in Muni's rack

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:40:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hm, does anyone make light rail vehicles with bike racks?  That might
be an advantage of buses

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:40:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Not as far as I know.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think the rolling stock used on Muni or the MBTA Green Line is too
narrow to bring non-folding bikes inside; I don't think either agency
allows it.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:41:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

I mean, BART has... space to fit your bike. But I don't know that I'd
call BART light rail.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:41:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Yeah, Muni Metro disallows it, which is why I keep forgetting it
exists

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:42:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

BART is not light rail, it's heavy rail rapid transit.  Like the MBTA
Red Line, which also allows bikes inside.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:47:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The distinction between light rail and heavy rail is not perfectly
sharp, but BART is pretty clearly on the heavy rail side.  It has long
trains of big cars running exclusively in a grade-separated dedicated
right of way

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 04:51:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And it's frequent enough on the SF - Oakland part to qualify as rapid
transit, even if the outlying branches are more like commuter rail
frequency

Class: geofft Instance: arm
Time: Sat Jun 30 05:34:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

why did they tarnish this beautiful instruction set with Thumb

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jun 30 05:34:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: arm
Time: Sat Jun 30 05:42:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I know, right?

Class: geofft Instance: arm
Time: Sat Jun 30 05:43:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

One of the less obvious reasons is that some embedded ARM systems have
only a 16-bit data bus

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Sat Jun 30 10:06:35 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

starking: people interpreting the GPL poorly is why we can't have nice things?

i never would have guessed!

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 10:13:35 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> I think the rolling stock used on Muni or the MBTA Green Line is too
narrow

given both ran Boeings I assume the width of the equipment is in fact
the same.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:37:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Yeah, all the MBTA "subway" lines are the same gauge.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:37:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

They have different loading gauges, though.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:48:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yes, same track gauge, different loading gauge (maximum size of cars)
and different actual size of cars.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:52:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The Blue Line uses narrow cars (9' 3") because it goes through an old
trolley tunnel.  The Red Line cars are much wider and higher capacity
(I want to say they're 10' which is something of a standard in the
USA, but I'm not sure)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:52:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The Orange Line cars are similar to the Blue Line cars but I don't
know why they need to be that narrow.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:57:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's because they're the same design as the PATH cars of that vintage.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:57:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Blue Line cars are the same, but with reinforced roofs for the
pantographs.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:57:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, the blue line cars /were/. There are new ones now.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:58:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Huh.  Somehow PATH feels wider to me, but Wikipedia says it's 9' 2.75"

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:59:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Different car layout, iirc.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 16:59:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

PATH is *quite* narrow.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hm, and the IRT is even narrower (8.6')

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:01:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh, I thought PATH was the narrowest.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:01:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Perceptions: they lie.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:02:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think the narrowest point on the IRT is the Steinway Tunnel
(similarly an old streetcar tunnel) which carries the 7 under the East
River

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:06:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That is indeed true.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:08:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Another reason the Green Line (and Muni Metro) likely object to bikes
is that they mostly use high cars with low-platform boarding, which
would make loading them difficult.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:10:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is there a reason the Green Line isn't doing off-board prepayment and
allowing boarding through all doors aboveground yet, incidentally?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:11:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

They would have to install the prepayment equipment, and explain to
everyone how it works.  And MBTA is too broke and incompetent to do
much of anything.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:11:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because waiting in line to board through one door sucks pretty badly.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:12:24 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"Because the BU students don't complain enough to make it worth installing"

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:13:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Inlet <kchen>

It does in some places, but nobody understands it.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:14:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, I did see (and use) a prepayment machine at Northeastern, but
the train still only opened the front door.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:15:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Scoot & Counter <kchen>

Oh, they also did allow boarding through all doors until recently,
when they stopped for fare evasion reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:15:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

(Because the MBTA also doesn't understand proof of payment systems.)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Touch 1/4 <kchen>

(Despite claiming to attempt to do so.)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I thought they allowed exit through all doors, but not boarding,
previously?

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:17:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Also, how does fare payment work for people in wheelchairs?  They run
the low-floor-in-center cars with the claim that this makes the trains
accessible, but it's not clear to me how someone who can't get up the
stairs to the front can pay (even if they're willing to open the
center doors for them).

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:17:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Work Siamese: Follow Thru <kchen>

They allowed both.  Rear doors were allowed if you had a pass, or
proof of payment.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Jun 30 17:18:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:39:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Man, having a wedding sounds so annoying

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:40:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Think, pretty maids, ere you marry <kdrinkwa>

srsly. Everyone just elope

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:42:24 2012 Host: SWEET-BOOTY.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

My aunt and uncle got married in a judge's office, which I thought was
pretty cool.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:43:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for MODELS! <geofft>

I have no objection to having a nice religious ceremony, but this
whole business about receptions and fancy clothes and first dances and
all of that seems annoying

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:43:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

From pop culture (which, of course, is to be totally trusted on how
good relationships work), it seems like most people only start hating
their in-laws during wedding planning.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:44:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

So I have the same objection to it as I did a few days ago to
getting girls numbers in bars, which is that it threatens the sanctity
of marriage because it makes both parties hate each other.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:44:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think it is a popular culture thing to have the couple hate the
in-laws no matter what.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:45:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Well pop culture threatens the sanctity of marriage.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:45:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't think anyone can (or wants to) argue against that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:45:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

(Things that don't threaten the sanctity of marriage as soon as they
can start getting married, partial list: gay couples, poly
higher-order couples, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:45:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

The thinking is that if a bunch of both families are going to
(potentially travel to) be at the ceremony, there might as well be a
party as well.  
The ceremony is for the couple.  The reception is sort-of for the
couple and frequently more for the guests.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:47:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Well, just have a normal party with dubstep and drugs and such. Why do
you need such an angst-making party?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:48:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 'That's the thing about quotes on the internet - a lot of the time they are made up.' - Abraham Lincoln <wings>

Angst-making party?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:48:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Because civilized people don't do dubstep and don't do drugs. They
complain about food service and get drunk, Clearly now.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:48:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A parroty error. <dwilson>

"that's not the sort of party Grandma wants to go to or expects"
also, "bachelor(ette) party"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 19:48:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Grandma needs to be educated.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:35:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I really need to start cooking for myself more

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:35:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Dude, eating out is probably slaughtering your budget.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:37:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I estimate I spend just under $30 a day on food, which isn't quite
slaughering, but is a bunch.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:38:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

The calculation I do is something like $10 of raw ingredients gets me on
order of 2-3 meals

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Then you eat less than I do. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:38:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Nah, it's just that the ingredients are that cheap :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:38:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

==ezyang. Cooking is way cheaper than eating out all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:38:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

I will easily go through $3-4 raw protein a day

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:39:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

That sounds about right.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:39:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for BEER! <geofft>

Maybe the protein I tend to buy at grocery stores is too prepared.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:39:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

What do you tend to buy?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:40:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Meat also goes up and down the sliding scale, although it /is/ expensive

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for TWINKIES! <geofft>

The things I most know how to make are packaged sausage and tempeh. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:41:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

Well, sausage is pretty cheap,.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 20:41:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I guess I have a large thing of frozen chicken, and could try to make
all of it this weekend

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jun 30 21:06:36 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

At some point I figured out how to cook the TJ's frozen deboned chicken
thighs/breasts without defrosting, which helps me a lot with activation energy.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 21:41:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Why does this Mexican grocery sell pocky?

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 21:41:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 21:41:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

Because San Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 22:24:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm distrustful of Mexican places in San Francisco, especially since I
once found one in a Hispanic-ish part of town that dubiously used Italian
cuisine items.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 22:25:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Colin Creeeeeeveeeeeey! <ezyang>

That's what happens when you mix hispanics and hipsters...

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Sat Jun 30 22:25:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Besides, Mexican food in Texas is sooooo much better.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jun 30 23:27:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

... why can't I log in?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Sat Jun 30 23:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Or "couldn't", more precisly

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Sun Jul  1 00:21:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

keithw's USENIX video is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Sun Jul  1 00:22:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixfederatedconferencesweek/mosh-interactive-remote-shell-mobile-clients

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sun Jul  1 00:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I am a huge fan of work's decision not to run any servers

Class: geofft Instance: mtg
Time: Sun Jul  1 01:27:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Mana burn no longer exists?

Class: geofft Instance: mtg
Time: Sun Jul  1 01:28:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

(Also, I think I haven't played Magic in ... eight years. Wow.)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 13:58:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> PATH is *quite* narrow.

point of interest: the old PATH cars were the same as the old MBTA
Orange/Blue line cars. (the Hawker-Siddeleys)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 13:58:57 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

oh, adam said so. just needed to keep reading backwards. carry on!

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 14:00:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ah, Hawker-Siddeley was the name I was forgetting.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 14:01:40 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

not that i have any clue why i remember the name

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 14:02:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

they're mostly retired now anyway, I think - the new PATH cars started
arriving a few years ago and I think they comprise most of the fleet
now

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 14:02:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yeah, i haven't seen the older PATH cars in a while

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sun Jul  1 14:04:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

which does make one wonder if and when there're going to be new Orange
Line cars. the existing ones are pretty grungy, and the blue line did
get new ones (and those were more complicated, even)

Class: geofft Instance: words.else
Time: Sun Jul  1 17:39:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I can never remember what "sartorial" means. I always think it has
something to do with William Faulkner

Class: geofft Instance: words.else
Time: Sun Jul  1 17:39:48 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"cromulently dressed"

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:12:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Not for Colds. Not for Pain. Just for Sleep.
ZzzQuil

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:17:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

I finally set up Rock Band last night (the neighbors probably hate us
now, yes), after having owned the instruments, purchased from a
reasonably-priced SUpost listing, since like March, and after buying a
TV and PS3 last week. Turns out that I apparently forgot to check that
the instruments included a microphone, and that the guitar receivers
are constantly holding down green.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:19:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

So I might be in the position of buying most of the Rock Band
instruments, possibly new... after having been motivated to buy the TV
and console by buying what I thought was a complete set of instruments
cheap. Sigh.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:22:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Fixing the guitars might not be too bad.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:26:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

They're wireless, and I don't know whether the failure is at the
dongle or on the controller. I could debug the former, since it's
USB, but debugging wireless might be hard?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:26:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I doubt it's wireless, it's probably the physical button having dirt.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:26:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Why is there a Pikachu?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:26:45 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Awls are just like huge AFM tips. - daigohji
 <rnjacobs>

Holding down green strongly implies mechanical failure, i.e. ==achernya

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:27:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

... is that a jhawk device?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:27:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Oh, no, it's two separate power cables *phew*

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What is a jhawk device?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that the lady of the lake now lives in a fountain somewhere.
 <rnjacobs>

a suicide cable

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Usually an AC power cord spliced to another one with, like, bare wires
wrapped around a piece of metal.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

I have fond memories.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

What???

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:28:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Bare wires?? piece of metal? What?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:29:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It's generally speaking a cord with two male ends.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:29:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:30:19 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Why would there be a piece of metal wrapped by wire? [????]

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:32:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What is the point of such a device?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:32:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Uptime.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:33:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

You plug one end into a power strip, the other end into your new power
source, then disconnect the power strip from the old power source and
connect it to the new one

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:33:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Or something more terrifying

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:34:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

I'm thinking of a crazy fan cable? That turns AC into bare wires?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:34:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uhm. Won't this blow breakers if you go across circuits?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:35:13 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

When I've seen them used, one step is through a UPS

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:35:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And it would only blow breakers if you connected the two halves of 240VAC
against each other.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:36:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Sounds scary. Unsure I would want to use one alone.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:37:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Well, I called it a suicide cable for a reason.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:37:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

well, not actually a reason.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:39:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Has a jhawk device ever been used in SMR>?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:40:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yes, successfully even.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:41:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

> And it would only blow breakers if you connected the two halves of 240VAC
Err, no.
First of all, most commercial power (incl. mit) is 3-phase, so it's
any 2 of three 208V phases.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:41:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Secondly, if you have take a shortcut (because you *know* the two receptacles
are on the same phase), you can still be screwed by such things as power
strips that swap neutral and hot (should never happen, but we had one
in sipb!)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:42:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

s/have take/take/

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:43:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Vault guards never disturb their Lords.
 <rnjacobs>

Ok, fine, be pedantic at me. s/two halves of 240VAC/two dissimilar phases or
you had a fuckup electrician, which is almost guaranteed/ :p

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 18:44:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Eh? I electrician's don't wire power strips.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:22:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

> I'm thinking of a crazy fan cable? That turns AC into bare wires?
err, not sure what you mean.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

i think I want a vacuum cleaner?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:25:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Even though all our floors are hardwood?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:25:52 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Really?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:26:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Maybe I just want a better way of picking up dust and things (there's
some sawdust under where they drilled our phone jack, etc.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Come on up, I got a lifeline -- Come on up to this train of mine <kdrinkwa>

a floor sweeper, maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Hand vaccuum?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: "My weather machine can make tornadoes!"-GB "My mama canna make canneloni!"-Stiletto
 <rnjacobs>

Dustpan?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:26 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

A wet paper towel?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Scooba

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:27:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Really, all of these are good to have...

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:28:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

What is a "floor sweeper", other than a broom? (Unless you mean the
brush that goes with dustpans?)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:28:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

A powered attachment for an upright vacuum with rolling bristles.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:29:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: The whinny will prick thee to thy bare bane <kdrinkwa>

Or a standalone thingy that's kind of less than a vacuum. I wasn't
sure what they were called, but just search amazon for "floor sweeper"
and you get these little square things with long handles.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 19:30:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Oh, those. Hm, I have a microfiber basically that, but cleaning it is
annoying

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 20:50:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Stretch Cycle & Wheel <kchen>

I like my cordless vacuum on hardwood floors.  The one I got also has
one that doesn't spin the brushes, which is nice when you have lots of
hair on your floor (so the hair doesn't get tangled up in the
brushes).

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 20:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dixie Grand <kchen>

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014A89OY/ is the one I have.  The
page notes there's a newer version of it.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 20:53:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

s/has one/has an option/

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 20:54:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass The Ocean <kchen>

Ah, apparently you're also supposed to use the non-spinning-brush
option for hardwood floors.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:49:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

What's the right way to get dirt/dust off a mattress?

My own mattress has been on the floor because I've been too lame to
assemble my bed (I'm pondering fixing that now), and we also have a
spare mattress for guests / sitting in front of the TV that has no
bedsheets. Both have gotten dragged around on the floor and such

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:49:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

spot clean only?

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:50:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Are you asking if that's true, or suggesting I "spot clean" it?

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:52:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

That's a suggestion, and an inquiry if anything works better to the
rest of zephyr. http://www.wikihow.com/Clean-a-Mattress also suggest
vacuum, and a bunch of spot cleaning methods, which I agree with.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:53:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

As long as you use a fitted sheet afterwards, discoloration shouldn't matter, and
spot cleaning/vacuuming/lint-roller could get rid of dirt/dust.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:53:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Lint roller was my plan. We don't have a vacuum cleaner... I guess I
could get one.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:54:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Concentric Shakedown <kchen>

Well, you were certainly talking about one earlier, so now it seems
you have multiple uses for one.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.d
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:57:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

I miss living three blocks from the Galleria

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.d
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:57:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Although I guess malls tend to close at 9PM, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:58:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Blah, I kind of want to get this cleaning done today. I guess I'll see
how far a lint roller gets me?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:58:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

kchen: yep, as the extrapolation for the vacuums that do carpet height
adjustment (where hardwood floors are zero height)

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.d
Time: Sun Jul  1 23:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

"I also miss having a job that only required me to be at work 11-12:30
two days a week"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:00:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

whoops.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.d
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:01:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

wtf is this
http://www.sears.com/roomba-irobot-looj-gutter-cleaning-robot-model-number/p-SPM257314034P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.d
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:03:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

wat. Gutter cleaning robots?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.d
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:04:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

It has a belt clip.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:05:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

Do you have a sponge?

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:06:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Yes, that might actually work

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning.d
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:06:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

http://store.irobot.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=3334470
belt clip and remote control (that attaches)

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:07:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

just be wary of getting it too wet, because mold would be
counterproductive.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 00:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Woahhhh, manoramaonline.com actually works out of the box these days

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:18:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> As long as you use a fitted sheet afterwards, discoloration
> shouldn't matter,

This is true in general, but as a housemate I suggest that it's not true
for our spare mattress.  It's likely not to have a sheet on it yet when a
guest first sees it.  (Because that allows the sheets to be stowed away
somewhere where they don't get dusty from the floor.)

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:19:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

By the way, where _are_ the sheets for that mattress?

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:22:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Apart from generally being confused, I'm potentially doing laundry in
the next few days, it'd probably be nice to throw those sheets in

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:22:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Err, I think they might have ended up on my bed.

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:23:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(When I moved in with a mattress, other furniture, and a bunch of boxes)

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:23:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Hah. Do you have bedsheets of your own? I can happily leave them on
your mattress...

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:24:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for COUGARS! <geofft>

"I am quite happy not to volunteer myself to wash my housemates'
laundry"

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:25:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I do, in a box somewhere.  I should either unpack (not actually going to
happen fully anytime soon) or just go buy some... haha, fair enough.

Class: geofft Instance: zipcar.q
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:38:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Mobile Email Address: 6178212546@vmobile.ca

Class: geofft Instance: zipcar.q
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:38:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Does that ... work?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:40:21 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't blame me. I voted in California. <aatharuv>

ministarking: It's using a website specific encoding, and CSS @@font-face
tags to dynamically load an embedded opentype font.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:41:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Oh, that's actually reasonably competent. It's not Unicode, but it'll
do

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

And it's way better than (what I assume was) the same
website-specific encoding _without_ web fonts and with a "text sucks?
download this TTF" procedure, which is what they did last decade

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:45:47 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fighting the evil cult of domesticity <aatharuv>

Agreed, that it was better than what was common place for most
Indian-language websites 10-15 years back, but still sucks in terms
of interoperability. Besides, proprietary encodings suck in terms of
actually being searchable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I wonder how difficult a problem that actually is... one would assume
that a good search engine could just notice something's funny, render
the font, and OCR each letter to see what it's doing

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 01:54:18 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

This is more complicated if your script does not have one-to-one
mapping between characters and glyphs as the normal case (and not an
unusual case as it is in Latin-script English (e.g fi and ffi), and
has complicated reordering and conjoining behavior.

It would be easier to have a human being figure out what the encoding
is, and write logical-visual order mappings.

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Mon Jul  2 02:25:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I think a car just drove by blasting Daft Punk out its speakers?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  2 02:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:43:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Wait, you hate wedding parties?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:43:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

how do wedding parties cause angst?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I guess I am odd in that I am looking forward to planning my wedding
with my wife. It will be like conclave!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:45:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I guess this means that "someone I can co-lead a project with"
is a criteria for marriage for me. Which, given that making a person
sounds like a rather long and involved project, I'm pretty sure it
already was.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Also, situation in which getting someone's number (or rather, email)
makes a great deal of sense: I met someone on the train from The Hague
to Brussels yesterday who majored in History and did her thesis on
things involving veterans families and the vietnam war and we talked
for the whole train ride before I had to get on a train to y'pres. 
Also she had freckles.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:50:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I think the difference here is that the conversation is long enough
that I can tell that she is an awesome person wiht whom I could have
many interesting conversations. This can also happen at bars, though
it is harder.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 05:50:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Also, I am totally having dubstep at my wedding.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:46:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for PETS! <geofft>

so confused

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:48:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Maybe the trick is just not to set any alarms for within 7h of going
to sleep? Otherwise I just keep snoozing and don't actually get any
more sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:49:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

> how do wedding parties cause angst?

The else was -c help "what order should the toasts be in", with the
implication that if you get it wrong, it's a snub.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:49:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Which moves the problem from "planning a large event" into "planning a
large event with hostile parties". The former is way more fun.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:51:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for HUNTERS! <geofft>

And generally the horror cases I hear are not of a couple being poor
/ hostile co-leaders, it's the in-laws taking disproportionate
interest in planning.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:52:15 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: passing out is a security vulnerability -afarrell <ismith>

> The former is way more fun.

This is how I know I'm not reading -c afarrell.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:52:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Imagine, instead of Conclave for APO, you were organizing a joint
national conference for LARP groups and SWE.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:53:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

Would that really be *hostile*?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:54:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

> I met someone on the train

You (I hope) did not board that train with the intention of getting
hot chicks' numbers. I have no objection to getting cool people's
contact info, I just have an objection to setting out to do so in an
environment that if anything is mildly anticorrelated with cool
people (and in an environment where you can't have a long and sober
conversation)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:55:08 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

trains are awesome why do you hate public transit

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:55:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

what

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:56:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I ride a train two times a day! Trains would be less awesome if they
turned into bars for single peple..

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:56:17 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

cool people totally ride trains

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:56:51 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I agree with you that hitting on people on trains is weird.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:56:56 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

actually, talking to people on trains is weird.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Actually the people I've talked to on caltrain have been super nice :/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:57:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

I mean, it makes more sense than hitting on people in bars.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:58:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Because trains have cool people who clearly have a purpose in life
(and are travelling to/from it) and bars have drunk lonely people.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:58:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

== :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 13:58:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

wings: Maybe "hostile" isn't the word I'm looking for, but the problem
is about co-leading a project when you disagree hugely on how to run
it

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:14:39 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I've learned a similar rule, but with 6h as the threshold.  (And with
exceptions if I really absolutely need to be up sooner, like to catch a
plane.)

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:34:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I sleep a bunch, as it turns out. But I should figure out when I
actually put the electronics down and went to sleep, it might have
been close to 1:30, in which case a 7 AM alarm is clearly wrong

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:38:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

[stark] https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/whitepaper-web

“In order to comply with GPLv3, Ubuntu thinks it would then have to
divulge its private key so that users could sign and install modified
software on the restricted system.  This fear is unfounded and based
on a misunderstanding of GPLv3.”

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Ooooh.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Thanks

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:39:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

(where'd you get the link from, by which I mean, have cjwatson or
slangasek or someone said "okay we're good"?)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:39:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Also “No representative from Canonical contacted the FSF about these
issues prior to announcing the policy.”  Wat.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:39:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I, uh, think that is false

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:39:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I got the link from LWN.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:40:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Oh, I see (#ubuntu-devel). Not in my filters, thanks

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:44:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

broder: That's not terribly inconsistent with what cjwatson told me,
is it?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:44:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I haven't really been paying attention. I'm mostly pissed at the FSF
for coming along and being all "why did everyone think we were going to
be nutjobs?!"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:44:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

While at the same time going on about how we need to be protected
against the big companies that are taking away our God-given software
freedoms

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Jul  2 14:45:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But being pissed at the FSF is kind of a constant state of being for
me, at least whenever I stop to think about it

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 15:54:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

> large event with hostile parties.
That seems like less of a wedding and more fo a guild game...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 15:54:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<Become a woman yourself, and you will be saved from slavery to woman.... (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

Two great tastes that go great together!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 15:56:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I did board the train with the intention of starting conversations to
people who were open to it. I am actually slightly less inclined to do
this with "hot chicks" than with guys because I assume that the former
are used to being bothered by men and therefore would just be annoyed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 15:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

Also, I'm pretty sure "I would really like to read your thesis"
is not a sketchy pickup line.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:08:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I would be intrigued by the possibility of making my wedding a guild
game. I would actually be surprised if no one has done this.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:10:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“Even the Germans don’t want him any more.” Ashen’s nose twitches. (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

There have definitely been weddings (and proposals) that have involved
LARPs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:17:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

ugh, reports of spinning BareMetal machines. I hope this isn't the
leap second thing...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:17:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It probably is.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Remember date -s "`date`" fixes it - you don't have to reboot.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What's the story on the mumble interactions with ntpd?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Why did nobody else deploy the Google solution to this?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

What's the Google solution?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:18:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Only dogfood reports thus far. I guess it takes a while for customrr
reports to hit me :-(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:19:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Clearly you should have set an at(1) job to run date.  What could
possibly have gone wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:19:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

oremanj: most users have "get to a terminal" locked down, if they even
know BM is Linux underneath.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:19:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

(I overheard a sales guy claiming it's not an operating system)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:54:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for MODELS! <geofft>

Clearly we need a Debathena-style recovery hook.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 16:55:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

YKYWT

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:12:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

> What's the Google solution?

Via LWN comments, make each second on June 30 86401/86400 seconds
long.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:12:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Which, <3<3<3<3<3.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:13:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:13:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A pair of saloon-style doors swing slowly back and forth here.
 <rnjacobs>

That ... is what adjtimex is basically supposed to do, you know.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:14:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:14:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

How does this manage to not screw up programs that do know about leap
seconds?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:14:45 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

That's actually really clever.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:14:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

If it does, you can probably fix both of them.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:15:49 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

andersk: Don't tell them there's a leap second?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:15:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass the Ocean <kchen>

fwiw,
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/time-technology-and-leaping-seconds.html
is the relevant blog post

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:16:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

They totally do basically that in _Entrapment_.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:18:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

phurst: What, by pretending that the TAI−UTC offset is still 23 s? 
Then they won’t be able to communicate correctly with the rest of the
world.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:19:11 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I mean, you could tell them that it happened @bold(afterwards).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:19:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Do I actually have to worry about any of those programs?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:20:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Then they’ll see a 1 s discontinuity in TAI.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:20:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(s/23/34/)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:21:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Given that apparently (based on recent experience) the vast majority of
the programs on my computer are incapable of dealing with leap seconds
and only the tiny minority are (and only a minority of those *need* to
know), why should I optimize for the tiny minority of the tiny minority?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:23:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

From the blog post, it sounds like the smear isn't actually just
86401/86400 --- it looks like they do something non-linear, because
NTP clients will notice something linear and start to disbelieve the
server?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:23:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Because then you need to introduce an additional correction factor to
correct the correction factor that people already know about, and the
problem gets worse, not better; and one that’s nonstandard, at that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:25:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

adehnert: Do NTP clients do that?  That'd be interesting.  Their
non-linear smear could also be so that there's never a sudden change in
the rate of time, either.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:26:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Except the additionally correction factor will apply to all of two
programs. And if there's something that works this much better than
the current standard thing, the answer is to make it the standard,
not stick with the broken one. Standards can be wrong too.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:26:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(I.e. so that naive time is C^1, not only continuous.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:26:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

What about a sudden change in jerk???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:26:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

ITYM a sudden jerk / a sudden change in acceleration, but yeah,
apparently they figured that was OK.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:27:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Yeah, I’m disappointed that Google didn’t use a bump function
integral there.  I expected better of them.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:27:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Or just none of them were sufficiently math students to know about
partitions of unity. =)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:27:55 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I keep forgetting bump functions exist.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:28:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

whoaa

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:29:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

That exists?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:29:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

price: *shrug*? That's what I read "Here's the science bit" as
saying, but I'm not sure.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:29:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: For the resources of nature and men's devices are just as fertile and
productive as they were. <ctl>

Why would a bump function integral be superior to piecewise linear?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:29:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

BTW, if you want to see the smear yourself, just use
time{1,2,3}.google.com

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:30:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(But /don't/ put those on a machine that also has a normal NTP server,
since they don't set the leap indicator at all.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:31:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft: Famous illustration of how real analysis is wacky!  Or more
precisely, has tons more freedom than e.g. complex analysis.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

They might have not used a bump function because they needed to use
something that unmodified NTP clients would be able to follow.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:31:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also useful machinery for some kinds of proofs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:32:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

What, you think unmodified NTP clients can follow a cosine function?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:32:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Yes, they empirically can.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:33:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This sounds like something from Counterexamples in Analysis.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:36:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

I wonder if more people have watched porn on Debathena cluster
machines or on BareMetal

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:36:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Do you really want to know the answer to that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:36:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, you've sat on chairs in cluster rooms, presumably.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:36:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Actually, I just wonder what the Athena porn usage stats are in
general.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:36:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

ha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:37:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

There’s nothing that would make an NTP client “empirically” able to
follow a cosine function and not a bump function, unless such
functionality is hard coded into the client’s source, which it isn’t.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:37:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

Have you seen the ResNet hack posters (on hacks.mit.edu)?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:37:42 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Trolling for fun and profit <aatharuv>

"Resnet: Cause you can't watch porn in the clusters", was a mock poster
from a bit before my time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:37:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for BARISTAS! <geofft>

I think I recall one about porn, yeah -- aha, that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:38:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

http://hacks.mit.edu/by_year/1994/resnet/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:38:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run <kchen>

I never clicked on the poster itself until today -- there are more
details after doing so.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for THE ARMY! <geofft>

All right, how do VMware Guest Tools work.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:41:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Oh, I bet openvmtools tells me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

By "able to follow", I mean that it can slew the host's clock to track
the cosine function with high accuracy. Not just that the NTP client
can measure the offset. NTP clients have a lot of damping to prevent
large changes in the clock.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:45:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

quentin: Do you understand what a bump function is?  (If not, look it
up on Wikipedia.)  It accomplishes exactly that same goal, better than
the cosine function.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:46:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I read the Wikipedia entry. I don't understand the implications of its
being compactly supported.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:46:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for PETS! <geofft>

Compactly supported is less interesting than being smooth.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:51:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Perhaps /mit/andersk/Public/smear.pdf makes the difference more clear.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:52:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

The point is basically that while the Google cosine function is
continuous at zero, it's not smooth (since the implication is that
it's a flat line when less than zero) -- there's a huge discontinuity
in the first derivative.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:52:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

A bump function fixes that, while remaining continuous.

Class: geofft Instance: sourceforge
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:56:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for PREFROSH! <geofft>

aaaaargh

Class: geofft Instance: sourceforge
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:56:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I should download forgeplucker and try it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:56:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I don't understand why there is a discontinuity at 0 on your graph for
google(t) - it seems smooth when I plot it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:57:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(note that the function is (1.0 - cos(pi * t / w)) / 2.0 not just a
plain cos.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:57:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Derivative discontinuities are still enough to make it not smooth in
the technical sense.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:58:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The given cosine-based function is the absolute offset (going from 0
to 1); I’m plotting the rate of clock adjustment, which is the
derivative of the absolute offset function (going from 0 to some
number and back to 0).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:59:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Oh, I think I get it. There's a discontinuity where you switch from the
constant to the cos.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 17:59:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:05:09 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

The support being compact means that at some point you can stop dealing
with the correction.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:43:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I remember reading in some MIT publication that 
"clusterbating" was a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:46:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

This publication was probably voodoo

Class: geofft Instance: regedit
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:49:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: value not set <geofft>

i,i New zsigs.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:50:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I will punch everyone in the world in the face

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Every time I google for some exe or dll I get tons of malwarespam

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Also, wow, my Windows knowledge ... dates from Windows 98 ... which
is ... 14 years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 18:57:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

No wonder I feel rusty on this.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 19:12:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Relatedly, regedit's search is no faster since 14 years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 19:42:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

I'm confused how much of this knowledge is relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 19:42:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Er, *surprised

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:16:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

The one thing I miss about windows 98: system modal task manager
dialog.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:16:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Wait, really?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:16:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for COUGARS! <geofft>

I feel like even in Windows 95 it wasn't modal

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:17:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

I never used windows 95, and when I hit ctrl+alt+delete, no matter how
hosed the system was, the task manager came up immediately.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:18:38 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

.... Nope, not true IME

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

dammit, am I being confused by the last decade?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

==acrefoot

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I mean, Ctrl-Alt-Del is an interrupt, so responsivity makes sense

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

there used to be a time where it wouldn't make you click on some other
screen first right?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

I *swear* that's more recent than 3.1

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Are you referring to the dialog with six buttons that does actually
clear everything else on your window? I thought that was an NTism (I
remember it from NT 4)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:19:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

oh, sure, it would only give you the task killer, but I regularly had systems
that were too hosed to bring it up in a timely fashion.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:20:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I think 3.1 just rebooted if you hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete. :)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:20:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

I remember when computers switched over to XP, that responsitivity
went away on especially hosed systems.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:20:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Then it might be that dialog, because that does a desktop switch,
which sounds painful.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:20:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Surrender now or prepare to fight! <lizdenys>

geofft, really, that does tend to be the most repsonive way to solve
windows problems :)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:20:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

But on my middle school's Windows 95 lab, we could log in with full
privileges (group policy locked down our usual accounts) by hitting
Ctrl-Shift-Esc at the login dialog, and doing Run | explorer

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:21:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

So it was pretty not modal.

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:22:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

        boost::this_thread::sleep(boost::posix_time::seconds(1));

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:23:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

How do you people deal with this sort of verbosity, what was wrong
with sleep(1)?

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:23:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Oh that reminds me

Class: geofft Instance: nobody-other-than-me-will-find-this-funny
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:23:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

i,i "Anglican theologian N. T. Wright, and his lesser-known
kernelspace cousin Z. W. Right"

Class: geofft Instance: nobody-other-than-me-will-find-this-funny
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:23:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PREFROSH! <geofft>

*Wright

Class: geofft Instance: nobody-other-than-me-will-find-this-funny
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:24:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Letters and Vox Pops <nelhage>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:29:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

I hate not knowing every line of our codebase and everything that
every other developer knows about our codebase and about all our
platforms

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:29:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

It makes me so much less efficient

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:30:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

you should hunt down the other developers and eat their brains.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 20:37:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for HUNTERS! <geofft>

*facepalm* this file has a global variable called "theObject"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 21:39:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

We have a function named flip_build_private_parts?

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 21:42:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

// XXX FIXME HACK INTERNATIONALIZATION I18N

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 21:42:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

"now I remembeer why I don't spend my time reading our codebase"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Mon Jul  2 21:59:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"The earth's rotation is slowing over time; contrary to some public
claims, this slowing is not caused by Republican administrations,
government spending, or proprietary software. In an attempt to keep
the official Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) in sync with the
earth's behavior, the powers that be occasionally insert an
additional second (a "leap second") into a day; 35 such seconds have
been inserted since the practice began in 1972. This habit is not
without its detractors, and there are constant calls for its
abolition, but, for now, leap seconds are a reality that the world
(and the kernel) must deal with. For the curious, the Wikipedia leap
second page has more detail than almost anybody could want."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  2 22:07:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

why do we have calls to telinit

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Mon Jul  2 22:30:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

[stark] My favorite boostism is the posix_time::is_not_a_date_time()
function. I mean, come on, couldn't you use "is_valid()" or something?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Mon Jul  2 22:30:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

http://vooza.com/
++++

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Mon Jul  2 22:35:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

==

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul  2 23:35:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

-> home before it's dark outside? weird

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:11:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

You tag your clipper on, you tag your clipper off, you tag your
clipper on and you shake it all about...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:12:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Clipper? But I...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

You do the... quick run through the turnstile-like things and you...
hopefully find the right train. That's what it's all about!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:20:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Wait, that's BART.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:21:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

And in the East Bay. Out here there's only one train, which makes
things so much easier(*)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:21:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

(*)provided you want to go somewhere covered by Caltrain or BART

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:22:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

What's the secular historical view on the existence of Paul and his
authorship of at least a few of his letters?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:23:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

(and his life as generally described -- persecutor in Jerusalem become
persecuted in Rome)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:25:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

That is, analogous to the claim that there are no contemporaneous or
otherwise reliable sources for the existence of Jesus (other than
sources or interpretations that make you accept Christianity), is
there also such a claim for Paul?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:25:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, yeah, huh... Well, I guess then it would be s/find the right
train/don't miss the train/?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:31:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

He's mentioned in books besides his own... Why would you think that he didn't
exist?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:31:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Woah, just read 1 Corinthians 6 (on the way to something else). Before
the one tiny verse about homosexuals and fornicators is this long
screed about Christians who go to court against Christians.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:31:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

"Same reason you'd think that Jesus didn't exist"

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:32:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

We should start denying those people communion and put political
pressure on them not to be teachers or Republican politicians.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:33:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Everytime I search something with 'bible' in it from the search bar, I
am served up google.com/blank.html. This is really strange. I am
really not kidding.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:34:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I'm not entirely sure what the alternative claim is there. Folkstories
from various messianic cults that merged? A conspiracy of Romans who
wanted to gain political power in the dying years of the empire?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:34:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Ok, it's actually everything. I just only have been searching with
bible in the search terms recently. What up, Chrome??

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:35:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I mean, basically all the reasons I'd expect, like... hm. Historical
consensus isthat Siddhartha Gautama _dide exist, right?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:35:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

huh... What is the standard atheist story on that? He existed, but wasn't son of god? Or....?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:36:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yeah, I feel like if a lot was written about you, you probably
existed. Maybe not exactly as people portrayed you, but there are
plenty of books that only mention a character once...

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:36:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

So if you're mentioned more than once, there's a good chance that many
authors are not making it up?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for THE ARMY! <geofft>

I think, depending on who you ask, he existed, was not divine, was a
charismatic leader, led a messianic cult like several, and the
followers made up a resurrection story; or he simply didn't exist,
against a high burden of proof.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:37:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

I'm not aware of claims he didn't exist.  There are certainly claims
that he didn't write everything attributed to him, of varying levels
of consensus.  

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:37:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

er, by my "he" I mean Paul.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Yeah, I certainly buy the claim that not all the Pauline letters are
Paul's.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:39:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

But a) it would surprise me if he was never alleged not to exist by
those who say Jesus didn't, since he wrote very soon after the time of
Jesus (unlike the Gospels, which are only attested decades to
centuries later), and so thereby provides a claim that Christianity
was pretty existent by like 40 AD.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:39:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Even if Paul!Jesus is pretty differently characterized andless
personified than gospel!Jesus.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:40:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

I think if people claimed Paul were the son of God, we'd have a lot
more people vocally decrying his existence/divinity/claims about him.
As it is, it's easier for a skeptic to say "he existed but didn't 
write this, and even if he did, so what?  he was deluded"

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:41:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

And b) there's a good argument against "religion was created by those
seeking power", since Paul wrote tons of what he wrote from prison
and never had any guarantees that he would escape so he could start
oppressing people

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:42:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

adehnert: I think it you want a decently popular story, you
shouldcheck out Bart Ehrman, a theologian-turned-apostate author

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Who as I hear is pretty rigorous, although I haven't actually read
anything by him

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:44:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for BEER! <geofft>

Anyway, I know there are competent vocal atheists on my class who've
read more of the New Atheism than I have, I'm curious if the
existence of Paul has been a relevant question in anything you've read

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:45:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

(or, well, non-Christians, let's not restrict this to
Christianity-or-bust)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

> We should start denying those people communion and put political
> pressure on them not to be teachers or Republican politicians.

I,I I want to see Jesus' long-form birth certificate.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:53:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I believe that was what several sections in the Bible were dedicated to.
:P

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:54:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

long long form birth certificate?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:54:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'm not a vocal-atheist and have no desire to read the New Atheism,
but the guy who writes most of the ancient- and medieval-history answers
on Quora summarizes the view here:
  http://qr.ae/8ntLr
The consensus he describes is that Paul existed and wrote seven of the
epistles.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:54:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(signed or unsigned?)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:55:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(The same guy has written a bunch of answers tearing apart people who
think Jesus didn't exist.)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

danjared: It was probably more than anyone else in that time. :/

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:58:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Nono, those are only copies, they were written decades after he was born.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 00:59:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Ah hell, you're right. Totes forgot about that. Well, still, if you
were born in 0AD, having something, even a few years after is STILL
more than anyone else, I would bet.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:01:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Well, not more than, say, a son of an emperor.  Or probably a fair
number (in absolute terms) of children of the elite.  But certainly more
than most people got.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:01:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Did people even have birth certs back then? *goes to google*

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:02:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It'd be interesting to learn when birth certificates were introduced and
by whom.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:02:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Shit, redirected to google.com/blank.html AGAIN. This is super
annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:02:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I'd love to know too. If Chrome wouldn't keep on stopping me!!

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:04:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22301527

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Doesn't look like much before 1500 AD.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:05:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I particularly like the first line: Enumerations of people were
carried out long before the birth of Jesus. And this has to do with
what, exactly?? (Yes. People existed before then. Thank you for the
filler sentence.)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:07:23 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Here "enumeration" means something like "census".

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:08:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

OOOH. Haha. I thought the author was trying to be overly technical
about, erm, the production of new people. ><

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:08:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I guess that would be 'iteration'.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:27:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for BEER! <geofft>

I feel like I have heard "enumeration" as a translation of the thing
Caesar Augustus ordered while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:28:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Is this "census"?

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:28:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because that's definitely, if not a synonym, at least in the same
equivalence class under some relation.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:29:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for SURGEONS! <geofft>

price: Yeah, I certainly believe that the historical evidence is that
Jesus existed. But I feel like there are not totally crazy people who
believe he didn't. (Like Ehrman.)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:31:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

i,i I think the relation you're looking for is "Koine"

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:44:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

There was a person named Dionysus the Insignificant? (who picked what
AD was?)

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:44:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Man, I hope history does not remember me as Geoffrey the
Insignificant.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:45:02 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"Ethelred the Unready"

Class: geofft Instance: christianity
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:45:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Well, he was actually kind of unready (or uninformed or something),
which is why he fell, right?

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:48:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

(switching instances since there's an interesting conversation, and
this was the instance I previously used for this book)

"But jettisoning tradition just because it is tradition is to
capitulate to postmodernity and to a kind of ultra-Protestantism that
cuts the tree offat the root because it believes that trees should be
entirely visible and obviously fruitful, no part of them buried in
dirty soil."

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Tue Jul  3 01:49:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

That is an awesome metaphor

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 02:23:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

melatonin, reading -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 12:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

waking up is still hard

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 12:29:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm fairly certain Neil Sedaka wrote a song to that effect

Class: geofft Instance: else.what
Time: Tue Jul  3 12:33:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

jhurwitz-list-of-memes

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:02:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

straightforwarder (simpler)
straightforwarder (So, basically, it's like a URL SHORTENING SERVICE
for HETEROSEXUALS!)

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:12:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

You have new mail in INBOX.

From: =?utf-8?Q?Uber=20SF=20Team?= <supportSF@uber.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Vehicle=20Choices=20Coming=20July=204th=21?=
To: =?utf-8?Q?Geoffrey?= <uber@ldpreload.com>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:12:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I kinda want to know what their mail software is

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:12:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That is...actually completely correct MIME encoding of non-ascii quoted
strings.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:12:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't ask me why I know how that works.

Class: geofft Instance: else.what
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:13:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: There is a wound that is healing. <anusinha>

"It's even more impressive considering he goes out of his way to avoid
Reddit"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:13:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Oh, it's completely correct! Just needless

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:14:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

In more relevant news, looks like in addition to the "hybrid" option
there's also an "SUV" one

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:15:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Which is convenient -- there were (fancy) vans on the road before, but
you had no way to request one

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:15:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That's normal, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:16:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, is it not actually non-ASCII?

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Tue Jul  3 13:16:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It looks like they took UTF-8 Everywhere to heart.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:21:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Geez are we actually going to war with Iran over the Strait of Hormuz?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:21:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for HUNTERS! <geofft>

That does not sound fun

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:23:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Can we...not? I think that that would be a lot better.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:25:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

"Like others interviewed, the official spoke on the condition of
anonymity due to the delicacy of the diplomatic and military
situation."

Nom?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:26:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Zorn's lemon. <dwilson>

Nom de plume?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:43:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, has that decided to heat up again?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:43:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/world/middleeast/us-adds-forces-in-persian-gulf-a-signal-to-iran.html

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:44:38 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Professors are not known to respond to email in polynomially bounded time. <ismith>

... is this actually serious, or just the usual crap that pops up
every year where Iran say "WE DON'T LIKE YOU GUYS" and we say "YEAH,
WE THINK YOU'RE ASSHOLES TOO" and everyone goes home to preen in front
of their mates for having been such a tough bastard?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:45:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Iran has threatened to mine the Strait of Hormuz. The US has added
more minesweepers and fighter jets.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:47:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

They've made this threat because the US and its allies recently stepped
up sanctions on Iranian oil exports:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/world/middleeast/new-sanctions-on-iran-aim-at-its-oil-industry.html?ref=middleeast

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:47:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for THE ARMY! <geofft>

I wonder how relevant Stuxnet was, too.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:48:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Less timely, but it hasn't helped relations.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:49:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"The round of penalties that come into full effect on Sunday, some
historians say, represent one of the boldest uses of oil sanctions as a
tool of coercion since the United States cut off oil exports to Japan in
1940. That experiment did not end well."

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:50:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(* the actual NYT article adds a clause spelling out how it ended)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:50:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:51:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:51:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Huh, the chief executive of Barclay's resigned over the Libor meddling
business? Wow

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:51:43 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The theory is that if we keep telling Halftime he's writing it, he'll actually write it. -xavid <ismith>

... such a necessary explanation.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:51:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And the chairman the other day.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:51:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I missed they ~admitted it.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:52:05 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

The chairman got un-resigned. The Bank of England told the
CEO he had to go.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:52:19 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

And sent the chairman in to manage transition.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt.also
Time: Tue Jul  3 14:52:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: SF 7/6-8. SF 7/30-8/1? <tibbetts>

"If you are an asshole american, you are not going to be in
the best position to run a large british bank."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:47:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Huh, rundll32 is the DLL equivalent of `if name == '__main__'`.

Class: geofft Instance: hackernews
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:49:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

If you build your product or life on closed platforms like Facebook,
Twitter, or iOS.... you're gonna have a bad time

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:50:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, sorta.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:50:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

rundll32 expects the function you invoke to have a certain signature
and calling convention, and if it doesn't match, all sorts of hilarity
can ensue.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:55:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

  * SECURITY UPDATE: fix integer overflow when processing Escher graphics
    records in PowerPoint documents

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:55:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

What... is Escher graphics?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Tue Jul  3 15:56:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

http://apcmag.com/office_2008_for_mac_hits_beta_lush_escher_graphics_engine_revealed.htm
Oh, I see, it's the shiny org-chart-y stuff in the new versions of
Office

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu.q
Time: Tue Jul  3 16:00:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/macmojo/archive/2007/09/25/officeart-unleashed.aspx

Apparently the name dates to 97-98 if not earlier.

Class: geofft Instance: christianity.d
Time: Tue Jul  3 16:43:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark]
http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/websearch/80GcWKQBZhs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:02:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Successfully closed our leap second bug by arguing that leap seconds
happen once in a blue moon.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:02:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PILOTS! <geofft>

I'm surprised nobody objected

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:03:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I Priority: pedantic

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:04:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have a separate leap second issue than the upstream kernel?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:05:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

No. Just that _some company's_ hypervisor seems to use futexes/timers
a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:06:05 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Shopkeepers can't tell identical twins apart.
 <rnjacobs>

Slightly more often than once in a blue moon. Closer to twice in a blue moon.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:07:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:07:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, isn't a blue moon annual, and leap seconds don't happen nearly
every timeslot available for them?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:08:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I think it depends on how you define blue moon?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:08:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I thought that was quite clear.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:08:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

A blue moon is when two full moons occur in the same calendar month.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:09:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

I've also heard it as when four full moons happen in the same season.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:09:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Or something?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:09:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

How are you defining "season"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:09:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

It's every 2-3 years, not every year.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:10:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Because if you're defining it as "three-month-period", those are
equivalent.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:11:15 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

>>> 365.24/28.5
12.815438596491228

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:11:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, whoops.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:12:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

>>> 365.24/29.53
12.368438875719606

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:14:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, I sorta thought there were 13 moons a year.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:14:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

There are twelve-and-a-fraction.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:24:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

I miss GNU binutils/libbfd :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:43:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

i,i "the zephyrgram is coming from INSIDE THE NAT!"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:46:54 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Spheres that insist on going into space are inferior to spheres that don't. <asedeno>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:57:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for HUNTERS! <geofft>

CEO just complained that I'm not wearing a brass rat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:58:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:58:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh, wear a brass rat?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul  3 17:59:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I don't have one

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:11:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Oh hey, binutils does a ./configure && make out-of-the-box. Excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:12:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

out-of-the-box: target not found.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:13:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Although, I appear to want --enable-targets=all

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:16:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

eeeeeeeee all the targes

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:16:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Mmm, round shields.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:18:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for FARMERS! <geofft>

/mit/geofft/Ptmp/objdump-i.txt
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/objdump-i.txt

so exciting

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:18:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for SURGEONS! <geofft>

disassemble ALL THE THINGS

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:18:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

dump ALL THE OBJS

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

> “Two helicopters and 76 heavily armed officers to arrest a man alleged
> of copyright crimes — think about that,” he wrote. “Hollywood is
> importing their movie scripts into the real world and sends armed
> forces to protect their outdated business model.”
> 
> In February, the New Zealand police defended the operation, saying it
> had been in line with a risk assessment and there had been only “20 or
> 30” officers involved in the raid on the mansion. 

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:39:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Yo mama's so ugly and fat, she comes WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY expressed
or implied, including the implied warranties of MERCHANTABILITY or
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:43:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

> The documentation on using BFD is scanty and may be occasionally
> incorrect.  Pointers to documentation problems, or an entirely
> rewritten manual, would be appreciated.

uhhhh.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:50:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

BFD?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:51:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

The library that powers, most directly, objdump/objcopy, and less
directly, GNU ld and friends

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:52:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

"BFD is a package which allows applications to use the same routines
to operate on object files whatever the object file format. A new
object file format can be supported simply by creating a new BFD back
end and adding it to the library."

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 18:52:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

"One spur behind BFD was the desire, on the part of the GNU 960 team
at Intel Oregon, for interoperability of applications on their COFF
and b.out file formats. Cygnus was providing GNU support for the
team, and was contracted to provide the required functionality. The
name came from a conversation David Wallace was having with Richard
Stallman about the library: RMS said that it would be quite
hard—David said “BFD”. Stallman was right, but the name stuck."

Class: geofft Instance: fsf
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:12:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

die in a fire

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:18:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for MODELS! <geofft>

Someone should start a band named "Nigritude Ultramarine"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:19:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Woahh, nigritudeultramarine.com is free?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:19:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

I kind of want it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:19:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Time to channel your inner broder.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:20:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

My inner broder is short on wastable money at the moment

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:23:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Huh, klee worked at Apple? Did I know that?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:23:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

I feel like there are a disturbing number of SIPB members who have
worked on the open-sourcey bits of OS X

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:23:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I hope you knew, I knew. He was in the debugger group.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:25:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Yeah, I'm reading the gdb changelog to try to lift Apple's binutils
patches out and rebase them onto modern binutils

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:25:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

(I may or may not be yak-shaving)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:25:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Hm, was tritan not a SIPB member?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:33:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

O_o this gdb is compiled with an ant build.xml?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:33:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

What are you guys insane

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:34:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I am _compiling gdb with ant_ my head hurts

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Tue Jul  3 19:36:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

>> All this talk of fixing Linux, and I was hoping to hear how we
>> would alter the Earth's rotation...
> You'd be amazed how hard it is to get that kind of patch merged... 

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:06:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

sleepy? how?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:15:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for COUGARS! <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if I want to learn to use gcov or gprof one day

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:24:55 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Yeah, I'm reading the gdb changelog to try to lift Apple's binutils

i'd like to see that, if you do

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:25:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

It turns out that Apple's binutils don't handle Mach-O files -m arm

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:25:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Which is what I wanted, and presumably what you wanted.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:26:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I saw a couple of messages in mailing list archives, I think
http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2012-04/msg00097.html
at least, that implied that Apple added some ARM support in gdb proper
but not in libbfd

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:31:26 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Which is what I wanted, and presumably what you wanted.

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:31:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

(was it?)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:32:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

it was

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:32:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Hm, looks like writing bfd/mach-o-arm.c should not be too hard...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:37:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Oh, I bet I can delete move-to-sipb-prospectives now

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:56:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

libbfd is the worst code.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:56:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

http://sourceware.org/binutils/docs-2.22/bfd/typedef-arelent.html#index-The-HOWTO-Macro-82

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:56:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

10.1.3 The HOWTO Macro

Description
The HOWTO define is horrible and will go away.

     #define HOWTO(C, R, S, B, P, BI, O, SF, NAME, INPLACE, MASKSRC,
MASKDST, PC) \
       { (unsigned) C, R, S, B, P, BI, O, SF, NAME, INPLACE, MASKSRC,
MASKDST, PC }

Description
And will be replaced with the totally magic way. But for the moment,
we are compatible, so do it this way.

     #define NEWHOWTO(FUNCTION, NAME, SIZE, REL, IN) \
       HOWTO (0, 0, SIZE, 0, REL, 0, complain_overflow_dont, FUNCTION,
\
              NAME, FALSE, 0, 0, IN)
     

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:57:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for SURGEONS! <geofft>

http://sourceware.org/binutils/docs-2.22/bfd/section-prototypes.html#index-bfd_005fmake_005fsection_005fold_005fway-45

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul  3 20:57:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What does this do...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:09:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for WOMBATS! <geofft>

220 Hello and welcome to The Tech, MIT's oldest and largest student
newspaper

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:09:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:21:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FARMERS! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyperviseur.png

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:21:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

This is a pretty excellent diagram

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:24:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I kind of want three months off to work on all the random projects I
think would be cool, plus the discipline/structure to actually do them

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:25:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Think, pretty maids, ere you marry <kdrinkwa>

I bet that, if you could get the three months off, you could hire
someone to provide the structure.

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Hm. How would that work?

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:28:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: If you don't answer my questions nine, sing ninety-nine and ninety <kdrinkwa>

advertise for a personal assistant gig on craigslist?

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:29:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

I wonder if there's a reasonable way to be accountable to the
Internet. (I feel like e.g. Joey Hess kind of is, but he's also
presumably way better at self-discipline than I am)

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:29:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joeyh/git-annex-assistant-like-dropbox-but-with-your-own

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:30:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

http://joeyh.name/blog/entry/I_work_for_The_Internet_now/

Class: geofft Instance: projects
Time: Tue Jul  3 21:31:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Hm, now that I see the mention of Diaspora, I guess this is not
particularly different from launching a startup, except there isn't a
promise of future rewards / threat of running out of money to motivate
you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 22:51:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

My commute is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul  3 22:51:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I was going to say it's merely not bad, but it's actually enjoyable

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:28:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Hrm, the iPad seems to insert private use character U+F6C2 (in UTF-8
form) in iSSH when I press Ctrl-A on a connected USB keyboard.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:29:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

And an Esc[D.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:31:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I wonder if this is just iSSH sucking at life, and I should find
another terminal emulator

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:32:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Alternatively, I hear USB keyboards are not supported

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:34:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Also, I am annoyed at the VPN's super-short timeout.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:34:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I guess it might almost be work-relevant to write a competent SSH app
with integrated VPN. Almost

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:42:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, there's already sshuttle. But that only does tcp.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:43:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's also the ssh built-in vpn thingy, but the tcp-in-tcp overhead
kinda sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:43:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

We don't run a public SSH endpoint.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:43:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

And unlike everywhere else I've worked, I don't hate my company or IT
department enough to work around it

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:44:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for FARMERS! <geofft>

(well, with the possible exception of startup!Ksplice, whose IT
department failed to annoy me or get in my way and ran all the
services I'd want)

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:45:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Also also, I suspect you missed the "iPad" part :)

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:46:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I did.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul  3 23:46:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

We have a perfectly good Cisco VPN, the iPad client just has a
super-short timeout.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting.ttants
Time: Wed Jul  4 00:54:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for MODELS! <geofft>

St. Francis Fountain (a retro-diner-ish place two blocks away)
St. Francis Foundation

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul  4 00:59:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for FARMERS! <geofft>

sleepy? self what is wrong with you

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:06:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Wait, really, Ikea's receipts get accented characters wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:06:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

That is _hilarious_

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:06:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

..... I vaguely think I remember that now.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:06:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Apparently my desk chair is a TORBJÍRN (it's actually a "TORBJÖRN")

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:07:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

iso-8859-XX vs windows 125x or something equally stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment.accounting
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:08:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Yeah, sounds about right

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:29:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Does this thing not come with a calculator?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:29:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I guess if I'd actually worked through the Stanford class lectures,
I'd have a calculator. An RPN calculator, admittedly

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:30:48 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

don't diss rpn! :p

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for COUGARS! <geofft>

It's not really what I want for adding a bunch of numbers together.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:31:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Am I supposed to enter all the numbers, then press plus until I get
an exception?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:32:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I guess in order to see the beauty in a place, you have to be a stranger to it
... And to see the ugliness in a place you have to live there.
 - Joan D. Vinge (Catspaw)
 <rnjacobs>

't's what i do.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:33:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that wielded, a long sword named Fire Brand makes you feel cooler.
 <rnjacobs>

$ dc
4 18 76 618 37 57 1 4 15  83 81 138 785 18 +++++++++++++++++++++++p
dc: stack empty
1935

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:34:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul  4 01:50:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

WHat'
s wrong with
1 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + ?

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:10:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

arrggggh stop sucking

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:10:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for PANDAS! <geofft>

I wonder how hard writing an SSH client is...

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:10:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

obligatory-mosh-related-comment

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:12:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I think that's easier, since you don't have to implement a terminal
emulator (since mosh has a very competent one)

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:13:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

But I am not sufficiently bored * annoyed yet.

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:13:32 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Is yours weird on <space><space>?

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:13:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

I haven't had issues with that?

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:13:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

It just randomly / arbitrarily crashes

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:15:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Why do I have _so much crap_ in my room

Class: geofft Instance: issh
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:15:27 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

(Mine turns it into "  . ", and I have no idea why.)

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:42:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

All right, Operation What Is All This Crap is making good progress

Class: geofft Instance: cleaning
Time: Wed Jul  4 02:43:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

With occasional outbursts of "WHAT IS ALL THIS CRAP"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Jul  4 03:16:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Oh, there's like a boson or something?

Class: geofft Instance: news
Time: Wed Jul  4 03:17:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

"French Police Raid Sarkozy's Home, Offices in
Illicit-Campaign-Funding Inquiry"

wut

Class: geofft Instance: mission
Time: Wed Jul  4 04:02:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for COUGARS! <geofft>

Your so-called fireworks set off at least three car alarms. I hope
you're proud of yourself

Class: geofft Instance: explosions
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:04:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I move to rename this district from "Mission" to "Incompetent Baghdad"

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:40:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

www.eq3.com showed me a domain squatter, with "eq3.com" in the
heading at the top. Disconnecting from the work VPN and restarting
Firefox fixed it. Weeeird.

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for HUNTERS! <geofft>

whois doesn't claim that eq3.com expired / was about to expire
recently...

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:40:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for HUNTERS! <geofft>

And looking up the IP at the command line gave me something perfectly
normal

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:41:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for BEER! <geofft>

So I really have no idea what was going on, and this makes me really
uncomfortable about my network connection / the VPN

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs.d
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:58:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Also, the fact that EQ3 sells Aerons is _still_ weird

Class: geofft Instance: interwebs.d
Time: Fri Jul  6 00:58:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I guess I haven't properly internalized Aerons as fancy or design-y
or whatever, and just think of them as reasonable office chairs that
are an easy target of mockery

Class: geofft Instance: bitcoins
Time: Fri Jul  6 01:19:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Huh, I didn't realize the BTC-USD exchange rate was anything
resembling stable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:40:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for MARKETERS! <geofft>

http://tech.mit.edu/V115/N56/nerdy.56c.html

what

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:42:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

""I have to fix my zwgc," said one. "Let's write some code," squealed
another."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:45:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

!!!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:45:55 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: It's not like Atheos will send me to Atheohell because I associated with a priest. -ghudson <ismith>

What the *fuck*?  Where did this come from?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:46:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I have never even heard of this place yet I feel an urge to show up
and hack on my dotfiles.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:48:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for MODELS! <geofft>

ismith: I was actually looking for the "SIPB Students Rock
International Fashion Industry" or whatever article that's on the
bulletin board, but this is what my web searches found

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:49:07 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: it starts with an evil-looking smiley and takes down your system :p -rnjacobs <ismith>

But where did it *come* from?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for COUGARS! <geofft>

.... the Tech?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for PILOTS! <geofft>

the demented brains of Tech editors?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

1995?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:18 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: [redacted] isn't the brightest lightbulb in the crayon box. -wings <ismith>

I know, but .... how?  (I don't expect an answer.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:50:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Are you guys gonna shop with me????

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:56:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:57:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Are you going to organize a shopping trip with us?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 02:58:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I will if you tell me a list of people to email/invite/harass

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:00:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I hesitate to forcibly suggest anybody else."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:00:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I... might be persuadable. I'm sure it would be an... experience.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:02:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't kyoki out here and into this sort of thing?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:03:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yup

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:03:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I will happily shop with you people

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:03:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

although I don't think I've actually found someone who has my same shopping
style and manages to keep up with me ...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:03:25 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

Yay you guys all get to shop with Jordan.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:04:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I will if she organizes something :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:05:07 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

I can't believe I'm actually saying this, and I think she went to bed,
so she'll probably never see this hopefully, but after shopping with
Jordan, I've gone from absolutely hating shopping to actually enjoying
it a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:05:14 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I like H&M.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:05:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

uh oh, dangerous words, Joe

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:07:37 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:07:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

H&M?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:08:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

the liking shopping thing

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:08:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> gone from absolutely hating shopping to actually enjoying it a lot

Huh. Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:09:10 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

I KNOW, RIGHT?

Also, no, it's not just because we're dating.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:14:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Heh, a shopping mob with the three of you actually does sound fun

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:15:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which three?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

I don't mind clothes shopping, I think. But I suspect that's because a
lot of my shopping experiences have been with my parwnts, and thwy're
really bad at shopping for me.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:16:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

you, Jordan, and Jacky. Joe isn't in town, right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:17:14 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

No, I"m on the other side of the country.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:22:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

blah, I have to be at the sofa place by 10 to yell at them

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:23:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

The troubke with getting up early is it's not even productive since
nothing's open until 10.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:24:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

I guess I can likely call the trash people. And certainly mitfcu.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:24:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have the day off or something silly like that?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:26:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

No. Which is mostly why I'm annoyed, because I'd have liked to deal
with things and get on the 10:00 Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:26:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, there's a contra dance tomorrow, You could totally try contra.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:26:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for PETS! <geofft>

My boss is taking vacation though, and I have a high-priority project
from him that doesn't requiree me to be in the office

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:27:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

when/where?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:27:04 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

I hear it's going to be really good

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:28:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Palo Alto, http://www.bacds.org/series/contra/palo_alto/, 7:30PM.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:29:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(You could also consider trying ceili, Tuesdays 7--9PM at Stanford.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:30:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Hm, 7:30? Plausible, but I kinda wanted to work latw

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

we'll see how productive I am.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 03:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

-> read -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Fri Jul  6 04:22:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Sleep would be easier if I could turn off my brain.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 16:59:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Nifty, LWN hired Michael Kerrisk (the man-pages guy)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:07:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> LWN hired

That sounds like excellent news.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:08:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Well, they say their cashflow isn't enough to sustain this, so they're
burning through reserves todo it.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:08:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Urgh.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:09:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

But still, that they feel confident that burning through reserves is
not a dumb idea is... less than excellent news, but still good news?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:09:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Where is this announced?  I don't see it on the LWN front page...)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:09:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I hope it comes with a good plan for how it's going to make them more
money so they stop burning reserves.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:10:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa.
https://lwn.net/Articles/504016/

"This RFC patch series provides facility to dedicate CPUs to KVM
guests and enable the guests to handle interrupts from passed-through
PCI devices directly (without VM exit and relay by the host)."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:10:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:12:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:12:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Aren't there huge security/isolation issues here?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:12:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Heh, Avi Kivity replies, "This is both impressive and scary."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:12:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Nah, it's virtual, it must be safe.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:13:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

I don't really think so. If the guest is running inside a VMENTER, it
can't do inter-CPU sketchiness. You require PCI passthru via VT-d, so
it has all the issues of that, but those aren't _huge_ issues. So it's
really just routing the interrupts at the guest inside the VMENTER

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Certainly for many applications (scripts, linerva, BareMetal) you
don't have the case that the host is hugely more trusted than the
guest.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:16:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does PCI passthrough maintain security reasonably?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:17:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Only kinda.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:17:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

If you can get the device to DMA, then all bets are off (because PCI
bypasses the MMU / memory protection)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:18:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

If you can't get the device in question to DMA, i.e., the API to that
device does not involve physical addresses, then VT-d etc. prevents
the guest from doing I/O to _other_ devices that can.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:18:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

DMA was what I was thinking, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:19:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

But being able to route interrupts to the guest without having them
take a VMEXIT doesn't make DMA more possible, since it's a function of
the interface to the device.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:19:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

So yes, there are huge security/isolation issues, but they're right
there, not here :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:27:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Sigh, I brought my keyboard home on Tuesday so I could hack on the
train better, and forgot to bring it back.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.kvm
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:27:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"For the future, it may be used to keep the guests running even if
the host is crashed (but that would need additional features like
memory isolation)."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:27:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

So now I am using the closest spare keyboard, which is an SGI
British-or-something keyboard, which is very confusing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:30:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What's tripping you up about a British keyboard?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:30:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, where pipe is?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:29:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

The pipe/backslash keycap is between Shift and Z, which means I keep
missing shift

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:30:59 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, really?  WTF keyboard is that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:30:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

But actually it's a <> key, and pipe/backslash is actually to the
right of single-quote, on the key with keycap tilde/pound

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:31:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It usually swaps tilde and pipe?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:33:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

TIMER_ABSTIME
TIMER_ABSINTHE

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:52:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Sigh, our new sales engineer has a capital letter in the middle of his
first name

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:53:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

This means that Trac is linkifying him everywhere

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:53:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:54:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for FARMERS! <geofft>

And I'm not sure how he'd feel about me putting exclamation marks
before his name everywhere (because they'd show up in email)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:54:23 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: But I'm quite happy at MIT and not being stabbed in the face with laser acid banana shark bullets. -jasminef <ismith>

"We're just that excited to have you here."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:54:33 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

What, is he a member of the !Kung tribe?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:57:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I wonder if one can configure Trac to blacklist certain names.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:57:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

(I also don't hugely need every reference to BareMetal or
NetworkManager to be linkified)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:57:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Pretty sure you can. Pretty sure I don't remember how

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Jul  6 17:59:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/wiki/NetworkManager
http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/wiki/IcedTea

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Fri Jul  6 18:02:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Ia! Ia! Do you want to get coffee fhtagn! -geofft <ismith>

http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/wiki/NiceGameOfChess

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 18:02:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've never really been a fan of linkifying camel-case.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 18:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Why am I still dealing with leap second issues :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 18:29:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

That said, I have a stripped-down version of the test program linked
on LWN, compiled for Linux amd64, at
http://ldpreload.com/p/leaptest-timer
/mit/geofft/Public/leaptest-timer
Code (which is uninteresting) is on my Github

(It's basically the thing Anders did to test on Linerva, except that I
explicitly removed the privileged calls to change the clock)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 18:31:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

It should display 20 numbers close to zero with half-second delays if
your system's working, and lots and lots of numbers close to -.5 with
~no delay if it's not

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:06:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Oops, forgot to drink any caffeine today

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:09:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

But I have been waking up with my alarm, on the first alarm! (for
values of "have been" that are equal to "Wednesday and today, but
yesterday I slept until 2)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:45:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

bah, every day I discover more code that I should have known about

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

"oh look, we patch this package that is super relevant to the thing
I'm debugging"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:47:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

I guess it's better than last week, when I was discovering papers I
should have known about before MEnging. (Because I was reading them
for work.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:50:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

*hisssss*

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsig
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:51:55 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I was like a motherfucking Xena of Neopets, man. -wings <ismith>

... ++?

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsig
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:57:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:58:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

This is so dumb

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:58:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Am I supposed to sign a PDFX online?

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsig
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:59:05 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: That's a real gneiss coffin you have there. The other one is a piece of schist. -peairs <ismith>

"So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON!"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 19:59:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

What is a .pdfx file, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:00:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for FARMERS! <geofft>

Also we need to sign the entire Windows Logo Testing Agreement even
though we don't care because the UEFI bit is an amendment to that

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:00:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Perhaps a PDF/X -complaint .pdf file?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:00:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

What is that?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:00:49 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Err, it's a subset standard of PDF that requires font inclusion and
other stuff to make the pdf file press-ready.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:01:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

That seems ... unlikely to be interesting for MS to distribute legal
documents in

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:02:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

"Also as a data point it crashes slangasek's evince"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:03:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

"That's really not that hard."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:11:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I was surprised it didn't crash mine, but then again I'm running Natty

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:59:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

zzzzzzzz

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:59:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

also I want better merging tools

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 20:59:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PANDAS! <geofft>

I think I want instagit, where I can take something that's not git,
do gitty things with it, and then get rid of the git

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 21:02:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

actually, no, I just want to take a nap

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul  6 21:13:51 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The glass is half^W^W^W^WI want a refill. -wings <ismith>

Zen fire ze missiles!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:11:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

*sigh* why am I getting an FTBFS on a no-change rebuild (just to bump
a version number, I decided I wanted to drop Ubuntu's change)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:13:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Also, I really should set up approx

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:20:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

ugh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:26:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

got to work with zero release blockers, ended up with two :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:35:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

"You should stop working"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:36:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I mean, I should go get some caffeine and work on the
entirely-different thing I wanted to work on today but didn't

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:41:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://xkcd.com/349/?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul  6 22:42:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I have that one posted on my cubicle :)

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:31:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

[Apparently I hadn't read this all the way through before!]

"It may be possible for each to think too much of his own potential
glory hereafter; it is hardly possible for him to think too often or
too deeply about that of his neighbour. The load, or weight, or
burden of my neighbour's glory should be laid daily on my back, a
load so heavy that only humility can carry it, and the backs of the
proud will be broken. It is a serious thing to live in a society of
possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most
uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if
you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a
horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a
nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree, helping each other to
one or other of these destinations. It is in the light of these
overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection
proper to them, that we should conduct all our dealings with one
another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There
are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal.
Nations, cultures, arts, civilization -- these are mortal, and their
life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we
joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit -- immortal horrors or
everlasting splendours. This does not mean that we are to be
perpetually solemn. We must play. But our merriment must be of that
kind (and it is, in fact, the merriest kind) which exists between
people who have, from the outset, taken each other seriously -- no
flippancy, no superiority, no presumption."

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:32:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "ah, so if everyone agreed with you, democracy would work great!" - efogg <pbaranay>

I was cleaning my room the other day and read a few pages from TWOG.
It's such an amazing book.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I bet I have the "and related sermons" book as part of that CS Lewis
compendium that I've never gotten around to _starting_. :(

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:32:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PILOTS! <geofft>

Also, hi Paul!

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:32:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The Revolution will not be zephyrcast. The hit list will not be blancheable." - pbaranay <pbaranay>

ohai geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:33:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Oh, I guess you've been on zephyr for a bit, my subs are just
super-narrow

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:33:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: *hugs the pbear* - fawkes <pbaranay>

Yeah. And I haven't talked on -c pbaranay in forever, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:34:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Magnets work by stealing all the Higgses. That's why we can never find any." - dvp <pbaranay>

How's being a Real Person(TM) going?

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:37:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

It involves sleeping too much, rebuilding broder's patched Ubuntu
packages, reading academic papers about sandboxing, and having
conversations with price about whither SIPB? I'm not sure anything's
changed.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I guess I get paid more.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:40:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "really, interdisciplinary study is just a big incest fest." - kdrinkwa <pbaranay>

That's always good.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:40:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I think everything said here has confused me.  I now have searches open for 'jungian' and 'shadows' and 'moogles'..." - wings <pbaranay>

And I guess sleeping too much is better than the opposite if you're
still getting work done? Something.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:41:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Well, I'm not getting _enough_ work done. But see above about nothing
changing.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:42:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: English would sound much cuter if everything pluralized with 'ies'! -pbaranay <ismith>

As long as they haven't fired you, you're getting enough done.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:43:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

shrug. We are arguably losing sales :-/

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory.d
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:43:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

But I'm not going to hold myself personally responsible for not
having implemented every requested feature already.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:44:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Hahaha, some drunk people are making fun of a Chinese woman and asking
"is the next stop Chinatown" and she gave them a Falun Dafa brochure

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:44:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I think she wins this round

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:44:55 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I provide the Japanese, Ian provides the linguistics. -zhangc <ismith>

++her

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:45:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

You should film it, post it to youtube, and split the hundreds of
thousands of dollars you'll make

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:46:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Oh geez they're trying to cross cars

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:46:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I'm surprised they made it

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:49:09 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm wearing it <kdrinkwa>

That is a really neat idea -- and, modulo the "things of this world
are 'mere' and mortal" bit, is one that I actually see a lot in Pagan
writings, especially Church of All Worlds.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:50:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Shoot and be damned then, you rogue, said he <kdrinkwa>

It usually gets presented more as "see the sacredness in everyone and
everything".

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:51:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

"The Zells reconstructed what they claimed was an ancient unicorning
procedure, a process involving surgically manipulating the horn buds
of kids during their first week of life, and created several unicorns,
some of which toured with the Ringling Brothers Circus for a time"

wait wat

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:51:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I feel like Wikipedia is not the overview I want to be reading

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:52:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

But, also, wat

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:52:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Now is the cool of the day <kdrinkwa>

yeah, the problem with the Church of All Worlds is that I think the
Zells are just independently way the fuck off the rails.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:53:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: But when I returned he had gone to the Giver <kdrinkwa>

"Thou art God" is a pretty powerful sentiment.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

A very Eastern Orthodox one!

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:54:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

"God became man that man might become god"

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:54:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "If you want Haskell, you know where to find ezyang." - ismith <pbaranay>

I really wish I'd done more comparative religion.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:55:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Some days I get the feeling that the Orthodox have it right, and the
Protestants are all approaching Orthodoxy in the limit, but there's
this Catholic stumbling block in the way and they have no idea how to
just adopt communion with Constantinople without going through Rome so
they just keep increasingly citing Orthodox ideas.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:57:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "TWO BILLS ENTER!  ONE LAW LEAVES!" - ismith <pbaranay>

You lost me around the middle. The Orthodox Church can't enter
communion with other churches on its own anymore?

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:58:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm not paranoid, I just expected them to be a tad more perceptive" - [redacted] <pbaranay>

Hm, no filioque for the Orthodox? Why?

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 00:59:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "That you are both children of the sky does not make you siblings." - ismith <pbaranay>

(Unless wikipedia is being unclear when it says they believe "the
Holy Spirit is proceeded by the Father and is also eternal".)

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:30:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for PANDAS! <geofft>

> The Orthodox Church can't enter communion with other churches on
> its own anymore?

It absolutely can (to the best of my knowledge), it's just that
somehow the concept of doing so escapes all Protestants.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:32:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for AIRLINES! <geofft>

And somehow the Orthodox don't actually register as a thing to
Protestants, because the Protestants are inescapably steeped in the
lore of the Catholics they protest that the Orthodox are irrelevant
now and Rome is where it's at (so if Rome isn't where it's at,
nowhere is).

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:33:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

(Which is oddly similar to the elsewhere about western Christianity
being steeped in the Greek philosophy it was _supposed_ to be... at
least supposed to not be, if not protesting per se, but that's a huge
tangent)

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I think Newman has a few passages in which he talks of Anglicanism
being a "via media" between Catholicism and (non-Anglican)
Protestantism -- recall that one of his arguments was that the
"fundamental character" of the Church of England was Catholic, not
Protestant -- and in particular some passages in which he identifies
with Orthodox thought in a few ways.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

By name.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:38:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

But somehow his "securis judicat orbis terrarum" led him to Roman
Catholicism, because he believed that the Western Church counted as
"orbis terrarum", and somehow the Eastern Church was irrelevant. When
really what he probably wanted to do was argue that the "fundamental
character" of his church was _orthodox_, go have a nice chat with
Constantinople, secure the independence of the Anglican church
hierarchy from Rome, and still be joined to a church -- arguably _the_
church -- that held the original deposit of faith, that maintained
apostolic succesion, that maintained a claim to being "the" church.
And then he wouldn't be wrestling with how a non-Protestant church
could be separated from other churches.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:38:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

_And_ he would get basically exactly the theology he wanted.

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:45:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

> recall
Where I mean "of course everyone on -c geofft has context for this and
reads all the books geofft said three years ago he happened to be
reading"

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:52:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for MODELS! <geofft>

> Hm, no filioque for the Orthodox? Why?

I have no idea. _I_ think it's dumb, but I also think we should get on
with the ecumenism already

Class: geofft Instance: the-weight-of-glory
Time: Sat Jul  7 01:55:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

But it basically makes sense I think? The Holy Spirit is not like a
thing Jesus caused to be, it was already there when Jesus?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:03:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Ugh, Windows
http://randomascii.wordpress.com/2012/07/05/when-even-crashing-doesnt-work/

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:03:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I still have not really come to terms with how fuzzy Windows-world
seems to think the kernelspace and userspace boundaries are

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:03:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

"and probably shouldn't come to terms with it"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:41:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Oops. Logged in so I could argue about what is or isn't a
no-true-Scotsman argument. I should, like, go sleep or something
productive instead

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:42:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I cannot stay, I dare not stay, I fear 'twill cost my life, 'cause I can tell by your finger rings, you are Lord Daniel's wife <kdrinkwa>

No true No True Scotsman argument would be about what's a No True
Scotsman argument.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:42:11 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: eqnarray turns me on. <ismith>

No Trueno-true-Scotsman argument ... dammit, Alioth :P

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 02:49:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Were I to sell my fiddle, the world would think I was mad <kdrinkwa>

I N C E P T I O N

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 04:14:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

> Oops. Logged in 

Browser crashed. Hi guys, I'm still alive.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 04:14:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for PETS! <geofft>

"and now I remember why I stick to the silly cat pictures instead of
logging in when I have five minutes to waste and not two hours"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul  7 04:16:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

The quality of discourse on /r/christianity seems distinctly worse
than what I remember from n months ago, as does the fraction of
trolls and just people hostile to religion. I think this is basically
what made me less excited about logging in n months ago.

I'm a little sad that it's making the "old guard" (of which I don't
really think it's reasonable to assert I'm a part, but still) leave,
but I guess online communities are made of eternal Septembers.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Sat Jul  7 18:34:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Huh, hit an OpenDNS search result page. I am actually kind of confused
by what's going on with my DNS

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 19:16:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Woo, Tarsnap supports Canada now.

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 20:34:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You...know that Colin is Canadian, right?

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 20:41:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 20:41:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for TWINKIES! <geofft>

(because that's why he didn't previously support Canada)

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 20:41:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for MODELS! <geofft>

How's getting him to use Stripe going?

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 20:48:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

He would happily use Stripe, and we would happily have him use it.
Supporting CA users processing in USD is going to take us a while

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 21:21:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What does supporting Canada entail?

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 21:25:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I don't actually know exactly. I believe it involves replicating a
large part of our financial setup in Canada

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 21:27:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, I meant for tarsnap.

Class: geofft Instance: tarsnap
Time: Sat Jul  7 21:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for COUGARS! <geofft>

Paying sales tax.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jul  7 23:50:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for AIRLINES! <geofft>

1928 packages upgraded, 240 newly installed, 142 to remove and 4 not
upgraded.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jul  7 23:50:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Added the wheezy-development Debathena repo to my sources.list and now
I can make (some) progress on full-upgrading! Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jul  7 23:58:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for PREFROSH! <geofft>

All right, guess I can't reboot for the next hour or so.

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sat Jul  7 23:58:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

This is also the one time in the last ever that I am vaguely unhappy
about DSL. But only vaguely.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:00:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

It kind of bothers me that there's no MIT class you can walk out of
and know how to write from scratch an echo server/client in C. I can
almost forgive 6.033 for not teaching it, but only almost. That even
6.824 and 6.828 don't count is more problematic.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:00:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:00:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

MIT doesn't teach programming languages.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:00:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

If you want that, you need to have a separate series of classes that
teach that, concurrent with the curriculum we have now.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:00:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Also, a simple echo client/server in C doesn't involve socketpair()

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:01:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I also can't remember the last time I actually did that, since the
socket API is kinda atrocious.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:02:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

I'm complaining about Berkeley sockets programming, not socketpair.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:02:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Like 'em or not, they're not going anywhere any time soon.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

And yeah, ==

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:04:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I hide in C++ for a reason, I have a library that...my dad and I
wrote? That abstracts that away.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:04:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They're still down there, and you're still going to have to know what
their semantics are eventually.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:05:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Nothing wrong with abstraction, you should just know what's under the
abstraction. (This is why 6.004 is the best MIT course)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:05:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe the bot that maps MIT course numbers to names should be subbed
here.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:05:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I mean, I know it. I jut haven't written the socket/bind/listen/accept
in ages.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:05:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Course 6.004

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:06:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Course #6.004

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:06:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeah okay I have no idea how adehnert mapped it

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:06:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Maybe it was class 6.004

Class: geofft Instance: sipb Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:06:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=6.004 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

MIT Class ticket 6.004: 6.004 Computation Structures

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:09:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

i.e., "Here's a Java simulator for transistors, write me some gates.
Here's a Java simulator for gates, write me an adder. And an ALU. And
an opcode decoder and everything. Also we added register file support
to the simulator. Here's a Java simulator for the processor you
designed, write me some assembly. And a lightweight kernel to handle
interrupts and such."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:10:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...Maaaan, I wish I'd had that class.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:10:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To protect the world from devastation! <omalley1>

For obvious reasons I would appreciate a class that covered this
stuff... At least I have competent zephyr folk to harass about it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:11:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To protect the world from devastation! <omalley1>

6.004 was terrific.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:12:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Adam, you can do the labs, they're all online and not password
protected.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:12:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I might just do that.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:18:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-126.MIT.EDU
From: EFUBAR <mpp>

<starking> When I took 033, there was an experimental extra 6 unit lab
section which had you implement things like a tcp proxy and caching
web proxy in C. Alas, that did not persist.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:19:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Am I the only person that isn't in love with 004? :/

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I thought it was ok, but I liked 003 a lot more

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:20:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Square Thru 3 <kchen>

6.003 was possibly the class I most disliked (and did worst at) at
MIT.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:20:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I thought 003 made me think of information completely differently, in
that you could put information in waves and frequency

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

It was kind of like magic. It was all stuff in pictures

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

==kchen, I didn't learn anything from it. I should probably go back
and study the material again.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I did hate 002 though

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:42 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: 'Oh no, not again' said the bowl of petunias <paigep>

meeeeeee too

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

Everything I hear about 6.003 has convinced me that it can be awesome
if taught well, but it's not often taught well.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:21:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PANDAS! <geofft>

I think 6.004 is a very well-put-together class. I don't necessarily
think the material is the best material, but I admire the teaching
style / pedagogy, and wish more classes were like that.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:22:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

== geofft

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:22:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for PILOTS! <geofft>

"I'd probably enjoy 6.003 if it were taught like 6.004"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:22:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Er I think Caitlin was the only thing that saved 004 :/

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:22:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I felt that 011 did a better job of "Oh, wow, everything is just numbers" than 003...

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:23:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

But that might have simply been "it wasn't taught by loons"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:23:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I thought 002 was okay. The lectures were crap, but my recitation was
awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:23:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Ew but I hated 041

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:23:20 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: 'Oh no, not again' said the bowl of petunias <paigep>

When I took it 003, the lecturer was *terrible*

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:23:28 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: 'Oh no, not again' said the bowl of petunias <paigep>

On the other hand, I had a pretty badass TA

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for PILOTS! <geofft>

I think 002 has been trying to become more 004y? And failing? I don't
actually know what passes for 002 these days

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:02 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: 'Oh no, not again' said the bowl of petunias <paigep>

(who actually brought in cups and water and food coloring to
demonstrate the moving-wine-between-casks thing)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

002 is basically not good at getting ideas across. It's more like
"let's do a lot of math"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ends Cross Kick Off <kchen>

I feel that way about 6.003.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

And not learn why we have certain building blocks 

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:24:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

A lot of MIT classes fall into the trap of "I don't know pedagogy worth shit,
here do some more math."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:25:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Hmm, I felt like 003 was pictures that carried info

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:25:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

6.002 in spring '11 was not at all like 6.004

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

You probably had a better 003 teaching experience. "Or know/like EE
better than me"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:25:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I also liked 003 because it reminded me of clothes

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:26:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:26:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

It was like manipulating pictures

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Which is sort of what styling is like

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:26:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

002 should've been taught like that

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:26:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Instead they just spat out too much math

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Sun Jul  8 00:27:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Even now, with all the systems stuff I try, I tend to think of them
like styling clothes

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Jul  8 02:21:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Hm. Hit Debian #648697, but it claims to have been closed

Class: geofft Instance: leveret Opcode: auto
Time: Sun Jul  8 02:21:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=648697 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 648697: thailatex: postinst called with unknown argument 'triggered'

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Jul  8 02:21:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I wonder if I hit it on a previous upgrade?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Jul  8 02:24:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Looks like it was lurking, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 02:26:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for PETS! <geofft>

Sigh, I don't know where the rest of the screws for this Ikea piece
went. :(

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul  8 03:21:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

vim integrates with _cut buffers_?

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Jul  8 03:21:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I have one thing in the selection and another in the clipboard, and
apparently what's in my cut buffer is the last thing I selected with
vim.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 14:48:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Oh right, we don't havea toaster

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 14:48:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for WOMBATS! <geofft>

this is why I don't have trivial breakfast things :(

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 14:50:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\exists Carnation Instant Breakfast.  Just sayin'

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 14:49:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Printer on fire <yoz>

You can toast bread on a pan. Especially one you just made
animal-based foods in, it's delicious.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Jul  8 15:05:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Cereal?

Class: geofft Instance: actual-quote-from-some-magazine-in-the-checkout-lane
Time: Sun Jul  8 15:12:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

"1000 Men Talk About Women's Naked Bodies"

Class: geofft Instance: actual-quote-from-some-magazine-in-the-checkout-lane
Time: Sun Jul  8 15:12:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I read Reddit already, I don't need a magazine for that

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Jul  8 15:46:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

argh, conffile conflicts?

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Sun Jul  8 15:46:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Apparently I once set up dnsmasq for 192.168.42/24?

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Sun Jul  8 16:15:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

> So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for STAR TREK
> CONVENTIONS!

nooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Sun Jul  8 16:15:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

O-o

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Jul  9 00:43:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

File descriptor 98 (/var/log/apt/history.log) leaked on vgscan invocation.
File descriptor 98 (/var/log/apt/history.log) leaked on vogon invocation.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Jul  9 00:44:39 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You _don't_ want to hear aptitude's poetry.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:17:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Noooooo
http://www.returninfinity.com/

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:19:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is Mokafive old enough to sue them into oblivion?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:19:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm dubious about this plan.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:20:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I don't think BM is. The product is relatively recent.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:20:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"Also maybe we can just resolve this by picking a less dumb name"

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:21:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Like I actually have trouble phrasing "happens with Windows running on
BareMetal but not with Windows running on, uh, bare metal"

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:23:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

... This thing runs all applications in ring 0? Well then

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:24:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

> File System
> * BareMetal (as well as Pure64) now uses FAT16 instead of FAT32
> * FAT16 is easier to manage leading to cleaner code

wuuuut

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:25:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Playing AD&D may be helpful.
 <rnjacobs>

... I guess, a little bit, sorta.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:25:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

8.3 filenames in FAT16, right? 16 is 12 but bigger?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:25:41 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

That's VFAT vs not.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:25:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What are the limitations in FAT16?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Which is a hilarious and dirty hack with the directory structure.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

2-gigabyte hard drives, mostly

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Of course, it only boots from IDE, so.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I, err, um...

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for SURGEONS! <geofft>

I'm not convinced this is a real project.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:28 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A grin.
 <rnjacobs>

FAT16: 2^16 clusters -> 2GB or 4GB max partition size
Also fixed number of root directory entries.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:26:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

But ... really, that's ... about it.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:27:07 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(I've implemented all of them and know waaaay too much about these)

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:27:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

> Our aim is to remove the bloated layer that sits between hardware and
> the running application, such as CouchDB or Node.js.

Okay, we may have different opinions on which layer it is that's
bloated

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:30:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I think multiarch/aptitude made me lose my 64-bit libnss3.so? Now
Firefox doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: leveret
Time: Mon Jul  9 01:30:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Oh well

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:22:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Am I misreading something where they say on the front page that "the
image above is more than 4X larger than the system itself"?  The big
banner image on that page is... 71KB.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:23:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I find it a little hard to believe that their "system" is less than
18 kilobytes.  That pushed me toward thinking this is some kind of
elaborate joke.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:24:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also, "modern technology like SMP".  Hi guys, welcome to the
twenty-first century.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:24:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for MARKETERS! <geofft>

It's an exokernel with no multitasking and no privsep.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:24:29 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A modest little person, with much to be modest about. - Winston Churchill
 <rnjacobs>

Well, 18kB would at least be consistent with dropping FAT32 for FAT16.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:25:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

If it takes them anywhere close to 71 kb to write a set of ring-0
FAT16 file read/write (no directory) routines and a console driver --
in assembly -- I'd be worried

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:25:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Or 18.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:25:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... no multitasking?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:26:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does node.js no depend on OS multitasking?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:26:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, is it clear whether they have anything that works?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:27:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Err, in particular, like node.js or something?)

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:27:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"Current plans for v0.6.0 call for basic TCP/IP support ..."

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:28:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft: Yeah, point.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:29:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

adehnert: I think it can all live inside a single JS runtime, right?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:30:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I bet this guy is having a lot of fun.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:30:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(It does seem to be one guy, or at least it was a year ago:
http://www.osnews.com/story/24815/Interview_With_Baremetal_OS_Ian_Seyler/
)

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Anyway, I no longer think I ought to feel bad if I ask them to change
their name...

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:31:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do those not depend on OS threads? I assume that, like, my C++
threads in 6.824 were backed by OS-level threads. IS that not true of
node.js? (Err, is node.js non-threaded and just designed to be
asynchronous? I guess that'd work too.)

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:31:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

node.js is evented, because context switches make you lose
performance.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:32:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. Well, I guess that works.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:32:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"What about CouchDB?"

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:32:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

It's impossible to write a multi-threaded program without losing all
your performance to context-switches, don't you know?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

oh god fuck couchDB

or at least fuck couchbase all to hell; can't speak quite so much
about couchDB

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:33:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

My bedroom is rapidly approaching reasonableness! I now have an
assembled bedframe, bookshelf, dresser, and wardrobe

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:36:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

xkcd.com/1077

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:52:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This thing is amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:53:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The assembly is actually quite readable.  Here's the memory manager:
https://github.com/ReturnInfinity/BareMetal-OS/blob/master/os/syscalls/memory.asm

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:54:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(121 sloc, of assembly.  Plus 26 sloc of initialization in init_64.asm.)

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:55:12 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Hey, I bet you thought this was kitten.
 <rnjacobs>

Well documentated assembly makes me happy.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:55:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'm missing the bit where it sets up the actual page tables, so that
probably adds a few lines.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:55:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, 2MiB pages? ARen't large pages usually 4MiB?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:56:48 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

No, 2MiB.  They correspond to 512 normal pages, because you'd otherwise
describe 512 pages in one page table, because a PTE is 8 bytes in amd64.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:58:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, right.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:58:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are x86 largepages a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:59:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, maybe you can disable page tables even in amd64?  Even though you
don't have segmentation to use in their place.  That'd save a few lines
of initialization here.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:59:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guess maybe I'm just remembering how big a second-level page table
is in JOS.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 02:59:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yes, they are, and they're 4 MiB.  Yeah, that'd do it.

Class: geofft Instance: names
Time: Mon Jul  9 10:41:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking a fair bit, but...)
I do not have enough '...'s for how much I am '...' at this.

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:30:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I am slightly disappointed that if I put my laptop on my left knee and
my mobile hotspot on my right, pinging _the device_ (not the outside
Internet) gets me these sorts of stats:
136 packets transmitted, 108 received, 20% packet loss, time 135366ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.774/346.459/2883.335/621.198 ms, pipe 3

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:30:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

It looks like performance is better if I put the device on my
backpack two feet away.

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:31:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... are you Wolverine?

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:06 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Back in the day, when things were more hardware... -geofft, on xvm <ismith>

I've seen that as well.  I've had good results with using bluetooth
tethering, although my current device isn't set up to do that with my
laptop (I think?) and that may not be an option if you have an actual
mobile hotspot.

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

I try not to be

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Yeah, this thing has either wifi or USB.

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

And despite ordering $70 of micro-USB cables from Monoprice a few
weeks back, I appear not to have _any_ in my backpack

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:49 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I know all the course 6 people can't be asleep. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

How good is battery life on those?  Is it reasonable to just leave it
on?

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:32:57 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: um... the equivalent of clade, except with a syntax tree instead of an evolutionary one. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

(And in your bag?)

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:33:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

If there are no clients connected, it automatically goes to slee

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:33:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for MARKETERS! <geofft>

p. So I mostly do do that -- although my iPad likes to connect to
wireless networks even when _it's_ nominally asleep

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:34:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

But yeah, I find just leaving it in my bag or my pocket and leaving
it on is totally reasonable. (So I walk around with a cloud of
ESSID "ldpreload" around me, in case any of you have access to the
internal Skyhook data set and want to call in drone strikes on me)

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:36:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I,I "missile coordinates"

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:46:57 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Uh, you know that 802.11 has a minimum distance separation of 1m, right?

Class: geofft Instance: wifi
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:47:31 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Did you mix that *twice*? -oremanj <ismith>

i,i silly people with arms about 1m long.

Class: geofft Instance: errands
Time: Mon Jul  9 16:51:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PANDAS! <geofft>

Okay, who else was I supposed to call? Talked to the trash people and
MITFCU, and the couch people are closed today...

Class: geofft Instance: craigslist
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:32:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

"Forr purposes of this paragraph, you agree that cached copies of
craigslist webpages on your computer or computer server constitute
'copies' under the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. § 101. For purposes of
this paragraph, you further agree that CAPTCHAs and telephone
verification are 'technological measures' that effectively control
access to copyright-protected components and rights of CL pursuant to
17 U.S.C. § 1201."

Class: geofft Instance: craigslist
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:33:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I thought there was caselaw regarding whether that first thing is true
or not. I wonder what happens when caselaw disagrees.

Class: geofft Instance: craigslist
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:33:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Like, what happens if you put in a contract, "For the purposes of this
paragraph, you agree that Title 17 of the US Code actually refers to
patents instead of copyrights"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:50:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Aaargh forgot to bring my keyboard to work _again_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:50:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

(just realized the keyboard I'm using is still the dumb keyboard)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:50:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Spin The Top <kchen>

Can you have work buy whatever kind of keyboard you prefer?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:50:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Outside Triangle Funny Circulate <kchen>

(And if they already did, then a second one?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:51:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Not if he keeps bringing them home and not bringing them back...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:51:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everybody Trade <kchen>

Well, I mean, a second one, so he can have one for home and one for
work.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:53:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

I don't need a keyboard at home; I just wanted one for the train,
once. And it's the standard cheap Dell one, anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:53:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for MARKETERS! <geofft>

It's just that this one is _worse_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:54:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I should probably have work buy me a keyboard/mouse before my MBP
retina display arrives...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:54:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 3 By 2 Acey Deucey <kchen>

Ah.  I guess you can't really leave one on the train.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:54:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Or at the coffeeshop, or...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:55:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Clearly I should grab one of these
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=6821

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:56:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

http://images2.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/68215.jpg

* Wash at any time
* Washable and hygienic
* Portable and storable
* Dustproof
* Used in the sandstorm
* Mildew and water resistant

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:57:07 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

wow, used in the sandstorm?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:57:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for FARMERS! <geofft>

I know right

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 17:59:54 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I figured I might count as an Ian for the purposes of this exercise -wings <ismith>

> wash at any time

i,i Star Wars keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:00:17 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Beyond the 23rd level lies a happy retirement in a room of your own.
 <rnjacobs>

I've used one of those! They're terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:00:30 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

it doesn't look very ergonomic. my wrists hurt just looking at it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:00:57 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

If you've ever used one of the XO's keyboards, it feels like that, only not cramped.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:01:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I liked the XO keyboard!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:02:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... for what?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:06:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

... For typing?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:24:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

I'm so confused that mmap_min_addr is enforced in userspace by the
compiler toolchain!

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:24:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for PANDAS! <geofft>

Instead of, like, in kernelspace!

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for BEER! <geofft>

Programs are expected to have a segment (called __PAGEZERO) mapped at
address zero with no access bits, so that null pointer dereferences
crash.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:25:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

How...quaint.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:27:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

I wish I were more nelhage, xnu sounds like it has got to be full of
obvious bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:45:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

So, how do I get admitted to the bar?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:45:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

It sounds like every random Internet troll and Hacker News
basement-dweller is a lawyer these days, so it must be easy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:46:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Spend three years in law school.  Or in some states, more years than that
apprenticing to a lawyer.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:47:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(the first option is always available and is more common)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:48:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Can I do that via correspondence courses?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:50:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not sure, but if it is possible it'd still be a lot of work.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:50:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And tuition money.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:50:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Wait... why do you want to do this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Because it seems useful

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:51:16 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Because there are people who are wrong on the Internet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:51:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

and they need to be SUED.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:51:54 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Being wrong on the Internet should totally be a tort.  I can't see
anything wrong with this idea.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:52:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, you want to be Carreon? :P

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:52:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for SURGEONS! <geofft>

If Carreon can be a lawyer, why can't I?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:52:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

I'm way smarter than him and know way more law

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:52:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

But not even a fraction of his dbaggery

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:53:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the... <lizdenys>

you could even present an entire case in meme form!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:53:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 18:55:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To protect the world from devastation! <omalley1>

++

Class: geofft Instance: adehnert
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:09:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

lol http://blogs.technet.com/

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:11:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0703.3/1850.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:12:26 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Do you also intend to have your marriage recognized by the ASA? -kdrinkwa <ismith>

i,i The bar ... is too damn high.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:12:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for THE ARMY! <geofft>

No, the bar is too low. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:13:44 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You're my interface to the hearing world right now. -danjared <ismith>

That's not a meme.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:13:56 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

I have to say, my immediate reaction to geofft's first zephyr was 
"present valid ID with your birth date"...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:19:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

==(I was thinking the same thing until I kept on reading...!)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:20:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

... unprebinding?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:20:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

That's a word?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:22:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

mach_header_64 is _exactly_ the same as mach_header, except for an
extra uint32_t reserved at the end? Why would you do that

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:22:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

If it wasn't reserved it would make sense

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:23:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

... can you not override the __PAGEZERO segment with mmap()?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:24:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

I dunno! You probably can!

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:24:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

I think it's intended to make sure that userspace null-pointer
dereferences crash, more so than kernelspace ones do.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:24:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Also I have no idea why the segment exists, instead of just a linker
rule to put nothing there.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:25:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Adorable!

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:31:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

extern int main(int argc, const char* argv[], const char* envp[],
const char* apple[]);

????

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:31:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:31:48 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:33:29 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Installing Linux on a Dead Badger for Dummies <aatharuv>

Now that I think a bit harder, I do remember that the entry point for
windows 3.1 binaries used to be something like winmain(), or win_main(). 

main() was a wrapper that said something to the effect of "Run this
from windows". 

So really, this isn't that weird.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:34:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's still WinMain().

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:34:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Ah, nostalgia

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:36:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or, rather, the entry point you code to for a graphical win32 app is)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:36:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:38:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, right, you need to pull in the CRT to be able to start with main()

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:38:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

So apparently start.s is this _single file_ with #ifdefs for
PPC/PPC64/i386/x86_64/ARM

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:39:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:39:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/Csu/Csu-79/start.s

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:39:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It turns out that living in the Linux kernel world gives you
unreasonably high standards for what to expect from code quality out
of most projects.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:39:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

+++++++++

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:40:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Like having looked at Linux and the world's leading commercial UNIX, I
have no idea how anyone can say with a straight face that commercial
UNIXes are anything other than crap

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 19:40:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

"and now I know why Windows releases less often than Debian"

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:14:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0703.3/1850.html

That guy's name looks familiar... and the internet tells me he went to
TJ.  '05, overlapping with me.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:19:55 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(OK, and jbarnold remembers him well.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:42:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/29/netflix-for-pandas/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:44:26 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Apparently being at MIT in a scooter is like being in a developing country? -danjared <ismith>

I was hoping this was a real thing for a blog.

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:58:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-09/samsung-wins-u-k-apple-ruling-over-not-as-cool-galaxy-tablet.html

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

> The design for three Galaxy tablets doesn’t infringe Apple’s
> registered design, Judge Colin Birss said today in London in a court
> fight between the world’s two biggest makers of smartphones.
> Consumers aren’t likely to get the tablet computers mixed up, he said.

> The Galaxy tablets “do not have the same understated and extreme
> simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design,” Birss said. “They
> are not as cool.” 

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:59:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I apologize, and endeavor to be more full of bitterness and rage O:-) -wings <ismith>

Wait, the galaxy tablets are thinner than the ipad?

Class: geofft Instance: what
Time: Mon Jul  9 20:59:27 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Jesus is like version control for the soul. -geofft <ismith>

(From later in the article.)

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:09:02 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> It turns out that living in the Linux kernel world gives you
>       unreasonably high standards for what to expect from code
> quality out of most projects.

the code may be awesome but the API changes daily. good luck coding to
it

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:10:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

"get your code upstream"

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:10:53 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

they haven't taken it in 12 years. they're not going to start now.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:11:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

I think arguably part of the code quality _is_ the willingness to
break internal APIs whenever convenient, tempered by the unwillingness
to break userspace ever

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:13:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

in spite of it sucking for me, the apple KPI is the right idea, imo.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:17:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Is this like Windows' KMDF?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:17:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

"or NDIS"

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Mon Jul  9 21:20:23 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

somewhat like kmdf

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:40:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

My barnowl was "killed".

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:40:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

Poor owl :(

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:40:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Which means that we've finally been up long enough that I ran out of
CPU before the next Linerva crash! Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...why hasn't linerva just raised the CPU limit?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:41:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

It's demonstrably interfering with normal usage.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:42:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"for some value of 'normal'"

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Mon Jul  9 23:42:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If there's a clever way to raise CPU limits for barnowls while making
sure spinny processes don't take several days to spin out, I'd be for
it

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:44:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay, why do I not sing these days, and what's the fastest way to fix
that

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:44:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

Start singing _right now_

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:44:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

And join a local choir 

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:46:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, because I've arranged my life in a way that makes it hard
to make weekday evening committments :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:52:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Find a good track and sing to it. :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:52:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Why do you want to so much now? Just curious.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:53:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

They sing at church...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:54:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My church doesn't have a choir. I guess, in theory, that's fixable

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:55:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(by switching churches, I'm not sure even in theory my current church
could add a choir)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:57:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

What do you like to sing?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 00:58:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"things." I did both a cappella and chamber chorus. I kind of miss not
being in something like that, or a fun church choir

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:00:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

man. If I could get myself to the point where I could reliably leave
work by 5:30 at least a few nights a week, that would be excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:01:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which I could do, if I could reliably leave my apartment by 8:30

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:01:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which I could do, if I weren't at work right now. I'm not even being
productive. -> dinner

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:03:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha. Well, there are about a million hits for choral groups in SF,
but most are in the middle of their seasons. If you really want to
pursue this, I would recommend auditioning in the fall. :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:04:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I Binged a bit -- looks like I should think harder about this in
August or September

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:05:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"but now is a great time to fix my schedule"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:06:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, it looks like you don't have to be gay to join the San Francisco
Gay Men's Chorus

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:07:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"and their rehearsal place is in a part of the city that I think
actually exists"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:07:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, that's awesome. But you do have to be male. :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:07:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Here's a singalong group! http://www.sfcitychorus.org/performances

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:08:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I saw that! I will probably go.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:08:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(I would totally go on Wednesday, if I am interpreting what they are
presenting correctly.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:08:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"that isn't too hard a requirement for me to fulfill"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, sounds like it.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You should organize the rock band party sometime.

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Sure. I was just making a comment on how there is still
discrimination. :P

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Adehnert, that is totally a .d.d :P

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Want to go on Wednesday? :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:09:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That requires making a rock band set that works...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:10:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

They have one at my work we could probs borrow... Except I know none
of the music. :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:10:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Criss Cross Your Neighbor, Others Zing <kchen>

I've been somewhat successful at playing Rock Band, even on vocals, to
music I don't know.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:10:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I _think_ adehnert might be starking to the beginning of this
conversation!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:11:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

Although I really wish they had musical notes, so I didn't have to
guess what pitch I was trying to hit.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:11:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Do they not give you music to borrow??

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:11:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Look in the corner: "All musical scores are provided."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, you're talking about rock band. haha.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, are we talking about... okay

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Correct.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haha I have been in the position of guessing what pitches I was
trying to hit when in a choir. That is a very different experience
from rock band

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oooh, the one on the 25th is Mozart! Totally showing up for that. :)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:12:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

You don't get music in the choir?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:13:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

No, you do! I didn't realize you were talking about rock band.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:13:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, two masses in c major... lols!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:13:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass Out <kchen>

I was responding to Geoff's last zephyr.  At least, I was in my last
zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:13:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We do, but the music was too modern to follow such ancient and
outdated concepts as "voice leading" and "whole intervals" and such

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:13:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So you guess wildly as to what you're supposed to sing because you're
not actually perfect at sight-reading, and so does the rest of the
tenor section, and you all guess together and wrong

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:14:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And six measures later you wonder why you're like a minor third off
from everyone

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:14:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, you're a tenor........

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:14:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

:P

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:14:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"and?"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:15:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But sure, I am likely to show up to one of these singalongs. Maybe
multiple.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I was part of a choir once where we had our tenor and shadow tenor
section, our bass and our shadow bass section, alto and shadow alto
section... and the sopranos. 

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:15:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(I'm just making a jab at a different voice part. :P)

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:15:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

adehnert: Are you hosting a sipbwest thing at some point?

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:16:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(your mention of encouraging me to host a rock band thing reminded me)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:16:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(Given that you've been in choir, you should be used to this!)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:16:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"well I've been an alto too"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:16:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I might still be the only person who sings second soprano right at the
end of xprod's alum song.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:17:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Because all the actual sopranos go "clearly I have the top line" and
all the actual altos go "I'm not a soprano"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:19:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Hahahaha, that's hilarious. Yes, I fortunately have a high enough
voice I never have to get stuck under someone else's line. (I also am
terrible at voice crossing---I immediately jump to the highest line
anyway. :/ )

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:21:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, the phrase 'sing along' could be 'sing a long' and long is an
old term for 4 measures... :P:P:P

Class: geofft Instance: eip.d.d
Time: Tue Jul 10 01:24:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes. Probably.

Class: geofft Instance: calibre
Time: Tue Jul 10 02:13:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Calibre looks like such quality software. I was looking at the Debian
changelog to see if they solved LP #561958 (which they did, it's the
same packaging), and ran across Debian #640026

Class: geofft Instance: calibre Opcode: auto
Time: Tue Jul 10 02:13:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=640026 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Launchpad ticket 561958: some ebook readers not detected without calibre-mount-helper (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/561958)
Debian ticket 640026: insecure plugin updater (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=640026)

Class: geofft Instance: calibre
Time: Tue Jul 10 02:15:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, are these *different* bugs than the famous
"calibre-mount-helper is suid root and contains like four different
ways to get arbitrary root code execution" bug?

Class: geofft Instance: calibre
Time: Tue Jul 10 02:15:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I was intending the first one, but it looks like that LP ticket is
"without calibre-mount-helper things break"

Class: geofft Instance: calibre
Time: Tue Jul 10 02:15:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So I guess that means they previously got rid of it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:40:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oh right, I forgot about this "exercise-induced asthma" thing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:40:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess the fact that I forgot about it until now is generally a good
sign?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:41:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There are no cars on the roads, and it's reasonably chilly outside, so
I decided to bike home as fast as I was capable of

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:42:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm also confused that Wednesday after moving all of four pieces of
Ikea furniture upstairs my legs were complaining at me the whole day,
and right now my legs are totally fine and it's just my lungs that are
sad. I guess my biking muscles are in good shape and everything else
sucks

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:43:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"which is consistent with biking an hour a day and not really doing
anything else"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 03:43:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds just like me! (The exercise habbits.)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 04:33:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Are there competent non-Google non-Apple options?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 04:33:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I figure when I replace this one I should probably not get an
Android... I won't be too sad if that constrains me to an iPhone, but
I will be a little sad.

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Tue Jul 10 04:49:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think my Bible is doing network I/O on the UI thread

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 09:28:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

> should probably not get an Android
Why?  (Did I miss discussions of how your current phone sucks, etc.?)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 09:29:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think your only non-Google non-Apple options are the Nokia Lumia
WinPhones...but why do you want to give up Android again?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 11:01:20 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: ...proposition switch?  Are you Freudian-slipping me? -pbaranay <ismith>

==achernya on both counts.  I've heard good things about the winmo
experience, but ... it's a totally different software ecosystem.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:11:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I dislike Google. In this case, I dislike Google owning all my
contacts and removing the ability to store contacts on my phone

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:12:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Because I have no reason to trust them not to pull a @facebook.com

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:13:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

also the usual stuff about not wanting search history, location data, etc.
sent to a megacorporation who enjoys having that data

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:13:26 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you dislike Google, you'll dislove Microsoft?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:13:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You could wait for Jolla:
http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/07/jolla-mobile/

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:14:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apple is developer-hostile and freedom-hostile, but has shown no great
interest in abusing my data, I think. Certainly they're way less of an
advertising company than Google is

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:14:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Yeah, well. I actually think MS falls in the same boat as Apple
these days

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:15:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"And in any case they already have my search data"

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:16:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass In <kchen>

I don't know how non-Verizon phones are, but my Verizon phone lets me
choose to add contacts to "Google/[my google account]" or "Backup
Assistant+ Contacts/Phone".  (Backup Assistant is a Verizon backup
product, although you don't have to use it.)

(Although you really don't want to have contacts of both kinds,
because it's a huge pain.)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:16:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

(Converting between them is possible, but annoying.)

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:17:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

COLO
YOLO

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:17:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

...huh.  What happened to the contacts page in Gmail?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:18:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It still exists. You can get to it from 'g c' with keyboard
shortcuts. I have no idea if it's linked from anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:18:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh good.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:19:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And, there's an 'export' menu option there, which I assume works.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:19:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But geofft, I guess you mean you don't want to store the contacts with
Google at all?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

kchen: My phone used to have "Google account" or "on this phone"; they
dropped the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Click on "Mail" in the upper left to get to your congrats.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have no app on the phone to hold contacts

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Oooh. The "Mail ▾" thing on the top-left is a dropdown.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I'll stick with gc.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:20:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: That's the fault of your OEM; Androud still supports local
contracts.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:21:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

price: I can export fine from the app. But the data is canonically
with Google, and I don't want to trust their servers

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:21:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

nelhage: Oh!  Right, I'd seen that before.  Too clever.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:21:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

quentin: I'm sure. These problems don't exist on Apple

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:22:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

quentin: I don't know what you mean, but my new Galaxy Nexus that I
bought directly from Google and my carrier doesn't even know about has no
visible option to store contacts on the phone.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:22:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

That's true. When Apple gets rid of a feature, everyone loses it.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:23:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So it may be that some carrier could in theory provide it, and that if I
installed an alternate build of the OS I could have it, but Google is not
giving it to me.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:23:26 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Not that this is a feature I personally want.)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:23:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I assume that if I turned off "sync contacts" in the sync settings,
it would only store contacts locally.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:24:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(I just checked and there is a checkbox for "sync contacts" under the
sync options for my google account)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:24:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft, do you lack that option?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:24:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I assume the UI would be otherwise identical, your contacts just
would only live on the phone. I may be wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:24:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But, like, that is certainly how I would hope such a system would work.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:27:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think the checkbox you want us Contacts->menu->Accounts->Auto-sync
app data

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:27:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

is*

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:29:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

autosync is unchecked.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:30:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"background data" is on.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:31:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I'm looking at Settings → Accounts&Sync → nelhage@nelhage.com → Sync Contacts ☑

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:37:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Geoff, it seems you want to build your own Android image. Don't run
stock if stock screws you. Be like Mitch and not have a Google
Account.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:51:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, does he run Android?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:53:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

He has a Droid 4, previously a Droid 1.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:57:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That is probably what I want, but that sounds like a ton of effort.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:58:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

He doesn't build an image, as far as I know. I have a Droid 4 and it
totally works with local storage. Other than a decent amount of
annoying bloatware, it's a fairly good stock rom.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:58:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Also, 5-row keyboard. YKYWT.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:58:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hella locked bootloader, though.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:59:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Only matters if you want to flash the kernel...

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:59:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

[That said, I'm confused as to what locking actually does these days,
because I successfully relocked my nexus' bootloader witha custom
kernel installed...[

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 12:59:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, stock Droid 4 doesn't require you to have a Google account?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:00:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It will nag you a bit when you first get it, but you can bypass that.
Same with Droid 2, which I had previously. The bypass for that was
"click the 4 corners in order, clockwise"

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:00:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you're on T-Mobile,
http://www.tmonews.com/2012/07/samsung-sgh-t699-coming-to-t-mobile-as-galaxy-s-blaze-q/
may be of interested (as I mentioned on my class earlier). Also
five-row.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:01:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh, those are better specs than the D4, and ships with ICS rather
than waiting for an upgrade. Although I think the keyboard looks
worse.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:03:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The keyboard's probably worse, but I've given up on getting a really
good keyboard on a phone. At this point, a keyboard, period, is a
plus, with five-row an extra plus

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:03:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

achernya: Relocking the bootloader simply means that you're stuck with
whatever image you have loaded. Unlocking it again will wipe the user
data partition.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:05:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I'm happy enough with my current 4-row keyboard, I suspect it's the
best on the market)

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:06:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Android Sidekick has a very decent keyboard, but you *do not* want
it.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:07:52 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Boo, linguists are supposed to know everything! -pbaranay <ismith>

> Android Sidekick

Dude!  I had no idea those were still around, that explains what I've
been seeing.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:08:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I mean, the _only_ redeeming feature of my current phone is its
keyboard

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:09:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Ceres, (134340) Pluto, Charon, (136199) Eris <eichin>

the *name* is still around, but it basically
means "android phone with keyboard on tmo" now

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:10:01 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I want to say "by apfarr's hammer". -iannucci <ismith>

Does it still do that weird flippy motion when you open it?

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:10:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

As in, the screen comes out at an angle? Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:11:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

but I emphasize again, you really really do not want this thing

Class: geofft Instance: smartphones
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:13:27 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I am going to stab you in the Azeroth. -pbaranay <ismith>

I have no intention of buying it, I hate the form factor, I'm just (a)
amused, and (b) have been seeing it around in the Deaf community and
thinking "I thought those were dead, I *know* these can't be that
old".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have some sort of huge mental block against leaving early for things

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:26 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

leaving early is the best, because then you get there early and you
can read books until it's time to be there

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:29 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

or drink coffee!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

clearly!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:49 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

maybe you just need a Kindle

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:31:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

but here I am zephyring because I only need to leave at 10:40 to make
the next train

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:09 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you could zephyr from the train station!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have the Kindle and Nook iPad apps

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I could!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I started The Atrocity Archives

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

also, I could get breakfast

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 13:32:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But no! Sit here and zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:09:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just lost power and the alarm went off

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:09:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We're not even at 6th street

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:10:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Optimus Prime makes any man look inadequate in some department or another." - ccpost <pbaranay>

panic!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:10:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Lights are back on ... and back off

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:11:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

What alarm?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:11:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

caltrain rave!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:12:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's like an old-school fire alarm

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:19:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We have a "loose cable"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:19:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Might be arbitrarily delayed. "yay"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Oh great. Does someone get to climb between the cars and reconnect the
loose cable?

What kind of power does Caltrain use? Third rail or catenary?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm? The tracks are not electric

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:09 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Caltrain is diesel, no?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Oww, diesel?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well the state just funded fixing that on Friday

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

In that case... who cares if the cars have power.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:21:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Lighting, AC/fans?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:22:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Looks like that worked.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:23:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well that lasted all of twenty seconds

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:23:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But since we'removing we're going to just deal at the next station?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:24:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"we're having some engine issues currently but we're going to try to
keep going as far as we can and meet a mechanical department person"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:25:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"the engine can pull us" "the train can't go all the way like this
because we'll eventually lose some vital parts of our trip"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:25:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

... was that actually on the PA?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:25:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, it sounds like it's either that we need electricity or that the
engine trouble is worrisome and the lack of power is just a symptom

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:25:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:26:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Don't modern diesel trains have an auxiliary generator for electric
power?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:27:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe. But this is Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:28:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

modern diesel trains are diesel electric trains.  I thought there was
only one generator and most things were taken care of in analog
switching?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:28:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"proof that you can run a competent public transit system by being
less capable of getting funding than most student groups"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:28:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:30:29 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

CalTrain is still better than the MBTA, in that bike cars are a thing

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:31:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

The MBTA has bike car(s).

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:31:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

They do?  I  know they have a "Put your bike at this end of the car"
thing.  Is this only on certain lines?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:31:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Yeah, only on certain trains.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:32:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Ah, Rockport says mbta.com

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 14:33:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I think they might have... two of them. 
http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/bikes/#holiday

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:00:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think we're going to make it to Redwood City without being
fixed? exciting

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:05:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"As you guys have noticed, the power! ... is less than stellar"

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:29:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Their hold music is the Chorallaries singing the Engineer's Drinking
Song.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:29:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Outsides Cloverleaf <kchen>

Wow, cool.  Also somewhat surprising.

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:30:01 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: It is incorrectly noted that Thomas Edison invented 'push-ups' in 1878. Nikolai Tesla had in fact patented the activity three years earlier, under the name 'Tesla-cize.' <asedeno>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:34:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> "Several months ago, Uber contacted me and asked to work together to
> legalize services like Uber in the District," Cheh wrote. "Since
> then, I have met with Uber many times, negotiated in good faith, and
> believed that I had reached an agreement with them last week."

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:34:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ugh, elected officials

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:34:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Can we just get Paul Graham to be dictator of the US?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:35:01 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: IAN WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY POOR POOR BRAIN??!!! -zhangc <ismith>

Is this about the DC minimum fare thing?

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 15:35:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:02:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Cookie Monster covers "Call Me Maybe":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qTIGg3I5y8

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:04:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vinegar. <ezyang>

++++++

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:12:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

5. Calling the kernel image
---------------------------

Existing boot loaders:          MANDATORY
New boot loaders:               MANDATORY

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:12:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

REALLY I WOULD NEVER HAVE GUESSED

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:53:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

One of my coworkers is doing this thing:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jmcmorris/crea

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Jul 10 16:57:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Galois field
gluten-free

Class: geofft Instance: work.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:06:49 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

jmcmorris
jemorris

Class: geofft Instance: work.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:07:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

very much not.

Class: geofft Instance: work.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:07:33 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The more formal variant is 'Can God design a Turing machine that can' &c. -geofft <ismith>

Correct.  You need one more c in there.

Class: geofft Instance: work.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:08:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

You know jemorris?

Class: geofft Instance: work.not-the-same
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:09:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FARMERS! <geofft>

He was around SIPB my freshman year

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Tue Jul 10 17:40:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew M Farrell <afarrell>

I am certain that PG would decline such a position.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:19:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

APPLE

Y U NO DOCUMENT ARM ABI

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:20:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I'm currently making wild guesses based on the public source
releases and the documented PPC/x86/x86_64 ABIs

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:20:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Sounds like a fun game!

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:21:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Not reverse-engineering from distributed binaries?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:21:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Although consider just making work shell out for a copy of IDA pro
and disassembling your way to victory.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:21:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

I'm still on the "add mach-o-arm support to binutils" plot, because
it sounded like a good idea at the time. I may be about to
reverse-engineer from compiler output, though

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:22:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why do you want mach-o-arm again?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:23:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for MODELS! <geofft>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:23:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you can use it as an excuse to get work to pay for a copy of IDA
Pro, you win.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:23:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I should buy some more towels

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:24:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for PREFROSH! <geofft>

We might end up getting that anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:24:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

I think I can do what I want with binutils, but my boss was suggesting
we just throw IDA at the problem

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:24:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Take yes for an answer.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:24:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a great tool, it costs a fortune, let the company spend it for
you.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 18:40:59 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Although consider just making work shell out for a copy of IDA pro
>       and disassembling your way to victory.

i wish we had that kind of money

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:26:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

It occurs to me that I've been working for five months now and do not
hate my life. Clearly picking a small company was the right decision.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:27:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"duh"

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:31:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

ALSO

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:32:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Whose idea was it to use the same magic number for Mach-O binaries and
Java classes?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:34:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Kinda seems like Java has a better claim.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:34:20 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Mach-O might be older.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:36:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Mach-O is older.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

One of the marketing guys is doing a demo with the current development
release (frozen, I still have some kind of embarrassing blockers) next
week...

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:38:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Yeah, James Gosling is quoted apologizing for the inconvenience at
http://radio-weblogs.com/0100490/2003/01/28.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FARMERS! <geofft>

I told him what things not to live-demo because they're known broken.
"They'll be fixed by next week, right?"
"Hopefully, but I'm not sure how much time I'll have..."
"Don't sleep."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:39:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Uh...

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:39:28 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

oh.  You didn't mention that said magic number was 0xcafebabe

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:40:18 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Which, I have to admit, is compelling for java

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:43:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You need to ride hard on marketing and sales guys, or they'll roll
over you.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Usually yes, but in this case it's overdue and I do need to fix it
with enough time for QA to test it if I want the fixes in this release
(or if I want to not be responsible for slipping the release, but I
doubt they'll do that...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:46:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't be afraid to say "no" to feature requests. If you don't because
you're afraid of being overridden or fired as a result, think: do you
really want to work somewhere where you'll be fired for not deferring
to marketing's judgement on a technical issue?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:47:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

It's not a feature request. It's a huge regression

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:47:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, that's different.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:47:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

"the browser has no network connection"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:48:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

And it was already assigned to me in Trac, possibly by myself, I just
showed marketing the things they should avoid doing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:48:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

by looking at Trac

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:49:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

This is not about being overridden or fired; I have no worry about
being fired (have I mentioned we're hiring? please?) and the only
override is that it won't make this release. I just don't want to put
out a crappy product.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:51:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Sales has actually been very good about not pushing me to do things. I
just want our customers to be happy :(

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:57:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for AIRLINES! <geofft>

What is an rs6000?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:58:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:58:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Ancient IBM unix(?) hardware? C'mon, just ask wikipedia.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:58:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is this a trick question?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:58:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for PETS! <geofft>

It's an honest question!

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:59:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I'm confused why binutils on Darwin defaults to knowing how to deal
with i386/x86_64, ppc, and rs6000

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:59:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for COUGARS! <geofft>

Does this have to do with Taligent?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:59:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

KIDS THESE DAYS.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 19:59:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://kb.mit.edu/confluence/x/cIDd

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:00:25 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

RS6000s were the original POWER architecture machines.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:00:49 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You may infer a relationship to "PowerPC" from this.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:10:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

whyyyyyy do we have code in Vala

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:38:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

make[2]: Warning: File `configure.in' has modification time 13 s in the future

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:54:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for PREFROSH! <geofft>

I cannot rightly comprehend the kind of confusion that makes someone
put a lost+found directory in .gitignore

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:54:54 2012 Host: dhcp-18-111-2-211.dyn.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

... their checkout tree was at the root of a
filesystem? so?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:55:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Why would you... well, first question, _how_ do you that, second
question why.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:55:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Just about every method of checking something out involves mkdiring
the top level

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:55:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

"also, this is what .git/info/excludes is for"

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:56:47 2012 Host: dhcp-18-111-2-211.dyn.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

kcr@ice$ mkdir zog
kcr@ice$ git clone ~/src/projekt zog
Cloning into 'zog'...
done.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:57:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

That doesn't work if zog is nonempty.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:57:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

As, for instance, it would be if it had a /lost+found.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:57:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You upgrade from ext2 to 3. I don't think 2 had lost+found?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:57:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

*My* lost+found is only created when there's something to put in it.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:57:36 2012 Host: dhcp-18-111-2-211.dyn.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

IIRC fsck will recreate lost+found if it has gone away.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:58:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Oh hey, the gitignore is created by someone with a @gentoo.org
address. "Okay, that explains it"

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:58:13 2012 Host: dhcp-18-111-2-211.dyn.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

lost+found predates linux.  It might predate berkeley unix.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for PILOTS! <geofft>

er, i-mix

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 20:59:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh. I don't seem to remember it on my RHL6 box, but RHL7 had it.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 21:00:04 2012 Host: dhcp-18-111-2-211.dyn.mit.edu
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Like I said, I believe e2fsck will create it if it has
something to put there.

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 21:08:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I've definitely had a lost+found directory as long as I've been crashing linux :p

Class: geofft Instance: autocrap
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:15:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Aaaaaaaaaaagh

Class: geofft Instance: autocrap
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:17:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Aaaaagh

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:30:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I have work to do but I'm hungry :(

Class: geofft Instance: autocrap
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I fixed it, I edited Makefile.in by hand, that was easier

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:34:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Okay, wtf, does my next step shaving this yak reduce to the halting
problem?

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:35:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

(I have a working objdump for mach-o-arm, it just ... interprets
everything as arm instead of figuring out what's thumb)

Class: geofft Instance: binutils
Time: Tue Jul 10 22:35:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

I guess I don't actually care about objdump's ability to disassemble
things

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:20:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Sigh. I actually have no idea what's going on now

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:21:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Went to sleep around midnight, was unable to get up to my alarms
around 8 (walked over to my alarm clock, turned it off, collapsed
again), barely got up at 11

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:21:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I don't think I failed to sleep enough yesterday, or even did
anything particularly exhausting! I guess zlogs might tell me what my
schedule was

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:23:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

1:30 to 9.  Which _should_ be reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:23:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Or at least, should not incur a 3+ hour sleep debt the next day.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:24:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

maybe it's catching up with you from earlier?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:24:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

I don't think I was particularly sleep-debtted earlier... Partly
because IIRC I slept until 4PM or so on Saturday

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:25:02 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

sick?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:25:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Don't seem to be.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:59:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

*cries*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:59:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for WOMBATS! <geofft>

everything is broken forever

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 11 14:59:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

especially NetworkManager

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:01:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Yay, the iOS app now supports hangouts

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:21:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

Have you tried using it yet?  (I haven't.)

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:23:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Nope. I don't really use G+... (I wanted it for a hangout last month
and was disappointed that it wasn't supported)

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:26:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Uh, I'm pretty sure it has supported hangouts for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:26:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 0x8badf00d; 0xdefec8ed 0xdeadbeef. <ageng>

It sounds like it just previously didn't let you start them from the
app.

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:26:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Luke W. Faraone <lfaraone>

Yeah, Sept 2011:
http://www.macstories.net/news/google-for-ios-update-mobile-hangouts-new-notification-settings-and-more/

Class: geofft Instance: g+
Time: Wed Jul 11 16:29:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

Ah, right.  The iPad hangout support is new, though, right?  (Not
counting "use the iPhone app")

Class: geofft Instance: python.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:06:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

"Explicit is better than implicit."

Really now.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:34:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for MODELS! <geofft>

Oh hey, if I'm sitting at home all day I should do laundry and put
laundered clothes into this dresser

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:35:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

oh man, is your room a real room now, geofft?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:35:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for BEER! <geofft>

Not.... really

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:36:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

boo

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:36:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

I mostly need to figure out why I have two? boxes full of clothes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:36:29 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: But this seems to be getting into 'technical solutions to psychological problems' territory. -xavid <ismith>

It's at least a complex room, right?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:36:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I guess it has rectangular coordinates?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:46:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

wtf, there's a _symbol_ in my program whose _name_ is
"radr://5614542"?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Changes for the 5.26 release (the cctools-702 release):
- Changed checksyms(1) to allow the local symbol created by strip(1) for the
  fix to 5614542.  The fix was in checksyms() in checksyms.c to test for the
  symbol name "radr://5614542" and not count that as a local symbol or stab.
  Radar bug #5938033.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:47:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

- Changed strip(1) to avoid creating a file with an indirect symbol table entry
  with an index of zero into the symbol table.  This is due to a work around in
  the dynamic linker for a bug it is working around that was in the old classic 
  static linker.  The change was in strip_symtab() in strip.c add a local symbol
  if there are no local symbols and there are indirect symbols.  Radar bug
  #5614542.

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for FARMERS! <geofft>

Hold up, are we ... four levels of workarounds deep?

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 17:48:08 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, does Verde's give hugs? -geofft <ismith>

INCEPTION

Class: geofft Instance: osx
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

hmph

Class: geofft Instance: room
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:42:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I guess my room also wants.... a trash can

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:44:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Why are there so many
Songs about pants
And what's on the other side?
Pants are visions
But only illusions
Pants have nothing to hide
So we've been told
And some choose to believe it
I know they're wrong, wait and see
Someday we'll find it
The pants connection
The lovers, the dreamers, and me

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:46:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://imgur.com/VIaCM

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:48:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

... I don't get it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:48:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Did you watch Thor?

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:48:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

I feel like I'm missing some culture here

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:48:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:50:20 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: This is one of the things that Ayn Rand, and incidentally my mom, are right about. -pbaranay <ismith>

It took me a minute to identify that as ... what'd they call it in the
movie?  "The bridge from asgard, whatever it is."

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:50:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The Bifrost.
A "rainbow bridge" connecting Asgard and other worlds

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:51:01 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you go deeper, you end up with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoG3YYEbE2Y

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:53:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 18:54:39 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Technology!  You work at the Massachusetts Institute of it! -kdrinkwa <ismith>

That was a pretty hilarious movie.

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Wed Jul 11 19:02:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I think I realized something interesting about the GNU coding standards
regarding changelogs and git. I'm not really sure how to phrase it,
but I think it has something to do with the lack of hope that tools
will ever get better

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 19:06:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do I want to watch Thor?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:07:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for PANDAS! <geofft>

__stubs
__stabs

Class: geofft Instance: udev
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:11:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Uh....
http://ldpreload.com/tmp/70-persistent-net.rules
/mit/geofft/Ptmp/70-persistent-net.rules

"that doesn't sound right"

Class: geofft Instance: udev
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:12:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

I'm somewhat surprised that works. But only somewhat.

Class: geofft Instance: udev
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:14:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...What does that result in the interface being named?

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:20:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
It's not bad (apart from the acting).  It's on Netflix Instant now, so
it's "free"

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:21:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Natalie Portman is a much more believable physicist than, say, Denise
Richards was in The World Is Not Enough.

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:21:58 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I remember the PR offensive for TWINE; Denise
Richards came off as much cleverer on Letterman than she did in the movie.
It was very strange.

Class: geofft Instance: else.else
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:22:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Sure, I'm not saying it's her fault, just that the character was kind
of terrible

Class: geofft Instance: udev
Time: Wed Jul 11 20:31:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

eth2

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 12 01:34:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_sofa_problem

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 12 01:36:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yeah, I tried to solve that for rectangular sofas last month, and got
a surprisingly horrible answer: http://qr.ae/REekt

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 12 01:39:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Haha, ++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 12 01:40:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Although the moving sofa problem is about area, not length (and I'm
also mostly failing at picturing your version of the problem)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 12 01:43:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

I found all maximal rectangles that fit around the corner (which you
can think of as the widest rectangle of a given height, or the
tallest rectangle of a given width, or the biggest rectangle of a
given aspect ratio, or whatever).

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Thu Jul 12 09:50:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
"He managed at last to get the sofa unstuck and move it back down the
stairs, but he realized that he had had to turn part of the wall off
in order to do it."

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Thu Jul 12 09:51:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I particularly love the solution to the problem in that book.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 12:49:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Well, it's 9:45, if I get in the shower now there's no way I'm making
the 10:00 train. Clearly I should find something to do to punt until
10:30, so I can get in the shower then

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 12:53:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"You just skip showering.  You do work in a software house in San
Francisco, after all."

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:15:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Is there a shower at work?

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:15:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Is workplaces having showers actually a common (or ever) thing?

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:15:59 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

it's not uncommon

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:15:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've worked two places that had them.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:16:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Maybe three. I think Bear did, but we didn't "get" to use it.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:18:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's a nice perk, because then you can bike to work and not be gross
for the day.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:19:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And SF programming companies compete with each other largely by
offering ridiculous perks to employees.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:19:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If there isn't a marble shower next to the organic juice bar and
full-time massage therapist, then your company clearly does not
appreciate Real Hackers.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:20:12 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You play with TvTropes, you're gonna get burned. -pbaranay <ismith>

> ridiculous

Shh!  We don't want them to figure that out.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:20:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

We're in enterprise software sales, we don't respect hackers :)

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:20:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

"I thought Real Hackers were supposed to crouch around archaic
computer equipment eating take-out Chinese food and forgetting to
bathe because they couldn't leave the computer until their code was
perfect."

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:21:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oracle doesn't give us any of the perks. I'm reasonably sure they make
up for it in money, though.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:21:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

We don't actually have a shower. There's an on-site gym thing with a
shower, but it's closed after hours, as I discovered once at 1 AM

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:23:03 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: (Names redacted to protect the innocent. ismith is not innocent.) -pbaranay <ismith>

The problem there is not that you didn't have a shower.  It's that you
were at work at 1.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:23:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I think everywhere else I've worked (VMware, Akamai, CSAIL, the
Ksplice apartment) had a shower.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:23:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We're apparently consciously trying to avoid that by having a more
distributed team.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:24:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

I should probably adjust my schedule to involve showering at work
(maybe by finding pajama-like objects I can bike in), actually

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:25:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

Adam: Oracle ATG has a shower, one floor down.  And under the latest
plan, I think that floor isn't even going away.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:25:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Anyway, now I have 10-20 minutes to do things like shave, remember my
keyboard, get breakfast, go to the bank...

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:26:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh, good to know. Though if I actually need it, I've done something
badly worng.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:26:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:26:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We should have had a shower at drop.io. I could definitely have used
it there.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:27:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

CSAIL has a shower?

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:28:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

(I guess I need to find out about that for the inventory project.
Though if it's in CSAIL space, it may not be open to students in
general, and thus not entirely relevant.)

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:28:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (same four) Centers Square Chain Thru <kchen>

The 32-0 bathrooms, at least, do.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:28:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

I know there's a shower in the women's bathroom in the basement.  I
don't know about the men's.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:28:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

oh, ==kchen

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:29:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*nod*  I don't think my spreadsheet actually has a column for that...

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:30:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Yeah, I mean "Stata", not "CSAIL"

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:30:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:30:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

I think last time I took a shower there I just walked in off the
street and didn't swipe an ID anywhere, actually...

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:31:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Can you try?  Or, what are the facts about GNU coding standards that you
realized something about?

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Also it's not the best showering experience.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:31:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*nod*

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Personally, I'd not be comfortable enough with a public shower to use
it anyway.  But statistics must be collected!

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:31:42 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you could get bike clothing

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:32:01 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

they have t-shirts that dry quickly so you don't get as sweaty and
gross

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:35:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sides Rollaway <kchen>

I think there's a card reader, but the locking mechanism was broken when I
tried.

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:35:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Pass Thru <kchen>

Lemur: the shower separately locks, if that's your concern (although
it may not be)

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 13:39:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“I still have to stop you,” Joe says. “But . . . if I don’t . . . have it tell him . . .” (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

[stark] It's not nearly as sketchy as the 1-0 shower (if it's still
there).

Class: geofft Instance: status.fallacies
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:19:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

So, on the original topic, I think this is the same fallacy as "it's
not 11PM / midnight yet, I need to find things to do to fill up the
time until I sleep"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:20:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

It occurs to me that my current life patterns really really won't
work for raising kids. I wonder what I want to do about this (at some
hypothetical future point where I decide I want to raise kids)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:21:10 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think almost anyone's pre-kids life patterns don't work for raising
kids.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:22:27 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Which is to say, before having kids, you should be prepared to change
your life dramatically.  Kids aren't a small part of one's life.
(Unless you hire caretakers, like I assume movie stars and some
high-level politicians do.)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:23:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Yeah, I guess "Kids aren't a small part of one's life" is very
relevant

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:24:05 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

also you get 9 months to prepare

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:24:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for PETS! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:24:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sometimes less.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:26:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for PANDAS! <geofft>

I guess in theory I could work my ~current job (living closer to
work, probably, and more in suburbia), leave for work around when my
kids leave for school, return promptly in 8 hours, and that would be
fine?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:27:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the... <lizdenys>

wouldn't you in theory have a partner who could do one half of that for
you?

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:27:27 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

==Liz

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

Those 9 months have their own set of issues

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:28:23 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"school" doesn't cover 8-9 hours, but daycare does, and so
does school+afterprogram. And yeah, that's basically how it
works.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:29:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If you have a flexible job, money for posh daycare, and no
work travel, it's pretty straightforward, even with just
one parent doing the dropoff/pickup.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:30:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"If you aren't paying attention it can be less than 9
months"

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:30:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Partner Tag <kchen>

I've heard of someone (a specific person) only realizing 1 week ahead
of time, although I can't confirm if that was true.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:31:28 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Not realizing until 7+ months is remarkable but relatively
common. Denial is a powerful force.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:32:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

tibbetts, and back-of-the-envelope numbers on "relatively common"?
Like...1%? Or 1/1000%? or...

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:32:16 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

s/and/any/

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:32:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Feels like 1 in 1k to 1 in 10k, but my sample may be messed
up, I've never seen stats. My own anecdata includes about 5
cases.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:33:23 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

ok, thanks. (I was going to be scared if you said 25% or somehting!)

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:33:31 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

I suspect I know the incident that kchen was referring to
and can somewhat confirm it, although I think it was more like two weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:33:41 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I mean "everybody knows at least one" kind of common.

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:34:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

More common than "oops, you get a bonus twin, somehow we
missed that in the ultrasound."

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:34:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

==kcr

Class: geofft Instance: life
Time: Thu Jul 12 14:34:45 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Err...I can't say I know how common that is, either. (...)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:20:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

The yak hits! The yak hits! --more--

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:20:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here two trillion Zimbabwean dollars. <ezyang>

Use what? i - a very sharp razor. You shave the yak!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:21:33 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Your razor has dulled.  i - a sharp razor.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:21:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I'm stuck in #gcc. Someone rescue me

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:22:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Get out, it's that easy.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:22:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The yak becomes a rust monster! Your razor crumbles to dust! --more--

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:22:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It may be too late for you.

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:25:50 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Forensic Astronomy <eichin>

so I was trying to explain the this-for-that meme
to my brother, wasn't near a computer to get an actual example, and
came up with "So, basically, it's like ETSY for PLUMBERS".  Much to my
surprise, that *hasn't* shown up in your zsigs yet :)

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:26:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Plumbing isn't much of a creative art.

At least, I *hope* it's not.

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:27:12 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I could imagine a 3d printer focusing on bathroom and
kitchen fixtures.

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:27:48 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

http://www.etsy.com/listing/75449582/vintage-faucet-handles

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Thu Jul 12 16:28:11 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

http://www.etsy.com/listing/90588525/vintage-porcelain-and-chrome-faucet-hot
ok, I'll stop now.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 19:13:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I'm gonna start using "MLID" for "My Life Is Debathena"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 19:13:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Today's problem: (things equivalent to) F5s

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 19:15:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

How do they make YL D?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 19:59:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I think mostly it falls in the category of annoying IT systems that
I'd encountered before. Although admittedly Debathena doesn't hugely
care about F5s

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 20:34:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

blargh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 20:34:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

customers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 20:34:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

why do they exist

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 20:34:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"how do they work"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 12 20:34:44 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

how is product formed?

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:31:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

I can't tell if I'm losing weight or I suck at shopping

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:32:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Wheel Thru <kchen>

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/mens-fashion/pants-size-chart-090710
might be relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:33:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Aha! These are from Old Navy

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:35:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, apparently that's "Lingerie/Bikini".

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:36:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

What sort of repressive third-world kindergarten do you work at?

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

What's "Lingerie/Bikini"?

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:37:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Geoff: VMware, apparently.
kchen: Filtering category. Apparently I'm not allowed to see it.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Thu Jul 12 23:38:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"On the plus side, it's a decentish substitute for AdBlock."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:17:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Spent the last 25 minutes trying to puzzle out what the faded Amazon
gift card code on this Coinstar receipt (that had been in my wallet
for two months now) was. Figured it out

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:17:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I guess that earned me $46

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:47:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Hmmm. So I lost my physical credit card and asked for a new one. The
web interface now lists two things in the credit card section, both
with the original credit limit... (One has a balance, one doesn't)

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:48:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Oh, one gives me an error when I click on it. :( I was hoping I
magically got double the credit limit

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:48:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"clearly I should keep using cards"

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:48:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

*losing

Class: geofft Instance: mitfcu
Time: Fri Jul 13 00:48:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Pass the Ocean <kchen>

For a different credit union, I had something where for a while, both
numbers were active, but everything charged to the old card would
automatically be moved to the new one.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Jul 13 01:52:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for MODELS! <geofft>

I hear a choir singing "The Rainbow Connection" in the distance

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 05:09:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for COUGARS! <geofft>

Oops, finished _The Atrocity Archives_.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 05:11:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

and super sleepy now

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:16:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

good morning, zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:17:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Woke up at 1. I wonder what the right way to fix this is

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:18:12 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Whee, crush the people with lives! -lexrj <ismith>

When'd you go to bed?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:18:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

2:30

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:18:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

I think? Hm

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:19:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:20:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I seem to be on this wonderful patttern of oversleeping on alternate
days

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:23:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

(got up super-early last Wednesday, missed last Thursday, had time for
errands Friday, slept until 4pm Saturday, got up fine for church on
Sunday, think I was late Monday and okay Tuesday, missed Wednesday,
did okay yesterday)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:24:26 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

strive for consistency, then fix what you're being
consistent about.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:24:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I wonder if the right way to fixthis is to get myself on a pattern of
showing up to work at noon and no earlier (and no later), so as to
give me enough time to sleep even if I get to bed late and to make
absolutely sure I have no sleep debt

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:24:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

and to make me not set stupidly early alarm clocks.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:26:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Also, cleverly forgot my wifi so I can't do any real work on the
tranin

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Fortunately, I _can_ read cached copies of the NYT and console myself
that no matter how bad I am at work, I will never be quite as bad as
these Libor-meddling fools

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:40:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

This... is the worst photo caption
http://nyti.ms/Motcco

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:45:03 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate bugs." "I didn't touch it!" -gdb, lexrj <ismith>

... wut.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:45:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I should stop saying stuff. It gets zsigged. -geofft <ismith>

Also, you want us to focus on the slogan, so you defocus it?  Dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: ecomomist
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:48:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Apparently you can use the word "retweeted" for things on Chinese
microblog sites.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:52:01 2012 Host: sacred-grove.lostwoods.org
From: Alejandro R. Sedeno <asedeno>

I suppose they'd prefer Forward!!!1!11!!1One?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Fri Jul 13 17:52:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

!!!1111!!111numberofpercentagepointsbywhichObamawillwin

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:17:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for BARISTAS! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:17:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

frickin' customers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:18:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

How am I supposed to debug _two separate issues_ if you send me the
_same debug logs_ for both of them

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:18:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

These are different physical machines! I know they are because I know
the limitations of my code

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:19:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

That is some 6.004 right there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:19:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

"One of these two paragraphs describes a bug in the system whose error
logs appear below. Which one?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:22:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for PANDAS! <geofft>

I mean, I know which bug the logs correspond to

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:22:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

I just want some logs for the other bug.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:24:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It's nice to want things, isn't it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:29:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Desire is the root of suffering.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 19:38:48 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

i,i MokshaFive

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:03:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

These are the same customers that are like "why do you need to know if
my headphones are connected via the audio port or USB" when they
report issues

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:07:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Geez, it's beer o'clock already?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:08:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

"Not that I object to drinking until the customers disappear, but I'm
still finishing lunch and my Mountain Dew"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:09:21 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: (Names redacted to protect the innocent. ismith is not innocent.) -pbaranay <ismith>

Mountain dew *was* originally intended as a mixer.  (And before that,
slang for moonshine.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:10:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xd8fzk8Rlk

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:11:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

That is excellent

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:36:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

export TERM=vt100

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:36:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Go-go gadget geofft-the-dancing-vt100

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:41:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

GNU fdisk is a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Based on libparted? Ewwwwww

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:42:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

GNU?  Ewwwwww.
Gnewwwwww.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:45:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Thanks, Anders. Thanders.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 20:46:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

Hah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:18:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I wonder if I can commit straight to the release branch...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:19:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

i,i "between this and showing up at 3:30 I'm not sure if I'll have a
job on Monday"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:20:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for HUNTERS! <geofft>

(Well, I'm sure I'll have a job on Monday. I'm pretty sure I
_shouldn't_, but I won't complain)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:26:55 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Redundant Array of Ian Doubles? -afarrell <ismith>

> I'm pretty sure I _shouldn't_

It still shocks me that I am employed.  Just a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:30:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, do you have a full-time job these days?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:30:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Weren't you going to get a Ph.D. at some point?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:31:28 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Dude, don't blame this on graduation. You were /always/ a bad influence. -wings <ismith>

I applied, got waitlisted, decided to take a few years off.  (That's
the quick summary.)  So I'm full-time at Lookout Mobile Security.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:34:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:41:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I love how you can bind-mount individual files, not just directories

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:42:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

What is a zivity?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:42:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

woah

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:43:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for MARKETERS! <geofft>

*Googles* I feel like this is a company that ended up more naked than
they expected (but not more naked than they should have expected)

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:44:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Believe those who are seeking the truth.  Doubt those who find it. - André Gide <wings>

I'm seeing a photo contest and a good number of naked-ish pictures.
I'm confused.

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:47:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Okay, what.

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:48:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... also, I'm *really* not sure I like what "Zivity for FUNERAL
HOMES" would be...

Class: geofft Instance: work.zsigs
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:48:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It seems like it involves naked photos of dead people...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:53:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

All right, one fewer release blocker. -> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:54:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

pro tip, "hampster dance" is perhaps not the best test page in a VM
without volume controls

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:54:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

On the other hand, I'm impressed by this laptop's speakers

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:54:35 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: How did I confuse rms with Richard Feynmann -wings <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 13 22:55:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

OH HEY I was using `yes | aplay` earlier for audio testing, clearly I
should suggest that to the customer I hate

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 13 23:39:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

have you not heard my Mountain Dew Song?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 14 00:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Can't say I have...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 14 00:58:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Wooo, made it to the Upper Haight on my own power (from the Caltrain
station). That only required walking my bike three blocks

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 14 00:58:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Two of which were avoidable if I didn't trust Google

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Jul 14 00:58:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Clearly Google has a better opinion of my legs than I do

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:40:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Greg was unfamiliar with Skrillex, so I played him "Scary Monsters and
Nice Sprites". We are willing to grant that it is musical, and even
that he is rooted in Western musical tradition, but not quite to claim
that he does not depart from Western musical tradition.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:41:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

If you're concerned about your sleep schedule:
1. Kill barnowl
2. GO TO SLEEP

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:41:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

"I don't care about my sleep schedule on the weekends"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:41:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

You have to get up tomorrow...

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:41:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I didn't realize until thinking about it from a music-analysis
perspective right now that it's basically a four-chord song. Or at
least has a strong IV-V-I pattern.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:42:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

"What doesn't"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(in response to your musical comment)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Atonal music, and dubstep could quite possibly get by being way more
atonal than it is.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 04:44:10 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-FIVE-SIXTEEN.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

Isn't it only like 1:45 am in SF?  Psh, that's earrrrly

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sat Jul 14 10:07:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'll be in my bung. <ageng>

[stark] Magical Trevor doesn't!

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:54:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for BEER! <geofft>

I wish I had an AD domain to play with...

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:55:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Relationship Advice) <eichin>

... why?  not enough tedious and annoying tech in your life?

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

"something like that"

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:56:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @@wesley(We've never had a release engineer before; you can
try if you'd like; I'll most likely kill you in the morning...) <eichin>

(that was our big use of vmware, before the
acquisition - we built a handful of AD configurations, so we could
test our "join this search appliance to that AD domain and
browser-test it"...)

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:57:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

well, lots of sites have AD set up, and Kerberos is cool, and more
people should use it.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:57:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

We do have a couple of test domains at work that I could probably play
with

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 14:58:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Artificial intelligence.  Real sarcasm. <eichin>

in particular, we needed to set up things like
cross-domain trust, the way the big oil companies did, so we needed
multiple AD domains for single tests.  It also meant we could just
roll them back to the base configuration, though I think in practice
we ended up scrubbing the system instead

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:01:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I didn't even know you @i(could) kill chocolate ice-cream! <eichin>

it turns out that when one oil company buys another
one... they basically just rename the subsidiary to a subdomain, and
set up cross-domain trust with that.  This happens often, so you end
up with a twisty maze of cross-domain relationships with
rename/redirect entries piled high...

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:02:37 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

not just oil companies doing that, either

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:06:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

We have a row of testimonial posters made by our marketing people
in the lobby. One is "We love how easy MokaFive makes it to support
new employees through mergers and acquisitions", and I am constantly
confused that that's a common use case

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:06:27 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Easiest way to hire competent people

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:09:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you think it hurts as much for them as it does for us? <eichin>

that leads to things like "it's worth being a
Delaware company, because your future acquirer will probably be a
Delaware company"... and the idea that "acquisition CEO" is a thing

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:48:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Ordered a keyboard online with ground shipping Thursday night. It's
here now

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:49:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I'm pretty sure it shipped from New Jersey...

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:50:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You win!

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:51:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Apparently. zzounds++

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:51:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

But I'm not sure I have room to set it up right now...

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:53:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/07/amazon_same_day_delivery_how_the_e_commerce_giant_will_destroy_local_retail_.html

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 15:59:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Well, it's confusing that you can do this a) without being Amazon and
b) being in New Jersey

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:00:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

New Jersey to Boston is ~4 hours by car.

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:00:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

But I wouldn't be surprised if they and other online retailers are
pushing the shipping companies to work better, abd providing the
revenue for those improvements

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:00:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or truck)

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:01:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Right, but I'm in San Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:01:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...right, how did I forget that

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:02:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How sure are you that you actually got ground transport?

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:02:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Well, I guess I should first check that I did not accidentally pay for
non-ground...

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:03:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Shipping 0.00

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:03:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

I mean, I expect they decided early Friday morning "meh, there's space
on this plane" and tossed it aboard

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Sat Jul 14 16:07:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

All right, I should do laundry and dishes and stuff, not PLAY ALL THE
MUSIC. Fortunately setting it up is effort

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Sat Jul 14 17:10:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

What does "Machine wash, warm. Do not bleach. Do not tumble dry. Warm
iron. Dryclean." mean?
It means dry-cleaning is an option, not that I'm supposed to wash,
drip-dry, iron, and then dry-clean it?

Class: geofft Instance: laundry
Time: Sat Jul 14 17:16:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

Yes, that's my interpretation.  
You can dry-clean it, or you can machine-wash and drip-dry it.

Class: geofft Instance: what?
Time: Sun Jul 15 05:43:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

http://www.fastfleet.net/

Class: geofft Instance: what?
Time: Sun Jul 15 11:35:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

So Zipcar is selling their management technology for use by other
organizations with fleets of vehicles... That's cool, I don't know
what's "what?" about it though.

Class: geofft Instance: what?
Time: Sun Jul 15 11:40:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oww, the grammar. Someone get them a copy editor, stat.

Class: geofft Instance: what?
Time: Sun Jul 15 11:40:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The pervasive use of "right-size" as a verb is pretty wtf

Class: geofft Instance: what?
Time: Sun Jul 15 11:41:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Also "300 less"

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Jul 15 14:52:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Once upon a time I was catching a train
Now I'm only catching my breath
Nothing I can do
Total eclipse of the BART

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:31:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Midnight with melatonin, set an alarm for 8, half woke up at 7:30 and
decided it was too early, woke up again at 10:20, missed the 11
o'clock train

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:32:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Still surprised I can sleep that long. Although I think my mistake was
trying to go back to sleep at 7:30

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:34:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That and being short of sleep in general.  If you were well rested, it's
likely you would have woken up sooner.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:35:24 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: INTERNET!  MAKE ME NOT BORED! -wings <ismith>

Is part of the problem possibly that your alarm clock doesn't fully
wake you?  You might have better luck with a sunrise clock and/or a
vibrating alarm (like shakeawake and sonic boom make.  One of the AC
ones, none of this pansy-ass AA battery shit).

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:35:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

But as far as I can tell, I am well-rested

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:36:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Although that is why I refused to let myself wake up before 8.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:38:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

My alarms at 8/8:10/8:30 did wake me up, I just had succeeded in
getting back to sleep by that point and did feel way too sleepy to get
up.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:39:14 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody expects the silent copula! -pbaranay <ismith>

Right, I'm just questioning "awake as in not asleep" versus "conscious
and competent enough to make a decision about getting up".  I may be
off the mark.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:39:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you're sleepy at that hour, especially if you're sleepy when the sun
has been pouring in for a couple of hours already, that suggests you're
not actually well rested.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:40:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

I used a (battery) vibrating alarm when I was in ET for IAP. It worked
about equally well as my phone -- I heard it, snoozed it or turned it
off, and went back to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:40:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Sleepiness can be tricky -- people are good at convincing themselves
they're less sleepy / better rested / more alert than they are.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:40:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for PETS! <geofft>

But I've bewn getting plenty and plenty of sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:41:02 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that in the dungeon you don't need a watch to tell time.
 <rnjacobs>

Precisely?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:42:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

8 hours yesterday, probably at least 10 on Saturday, 11 on Friday, I
think 8 on Thursday...

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:42:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I can't remember the last time I slept less than 7 hours in a night

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:42:43 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Is the sleep of good quality?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:43:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

So I don't think "sleep more" is a plausible argument.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Mostly, although aforementioned sun shows up at 7 or earlier

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:44:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: There is a season waiting for me. <anusinha>

If you've been sleep deprived for a while, it takes something like
several weeks to come back from sleeping 10ish hours a night (without
an alarm) to 8 hours a night.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:44:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

But I haven't. Last time I rwsembled sleep deprived was December

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:45:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Housecats have nine lives, kittens only one.
 <rnjacobs>

Most people also can only shift their schedule by 1-2 hours per day.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:45:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

My schedule is pretty close to going to sleep around 12-1 and waking
around 9-10

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

One thing that somewhat explains today in a more believable way is
that I hadn't used melatonin in a few weeks, and it generally does
have the effect of making it harder to wake up in my experience

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:47:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

(I've learned not to use it when the goal is "I need to sleep now so I
can wake up in 6 hours")

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:47:28 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

My default response is like anusinha's.  If you think it's been longer
than that and you should be caught up by now, a simple thing would be to
start writing down your sleep times -- I'd bet you sometimes sleep less
than you think and forget about it within a day or two.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:48:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also, hasn't your schedule in recent days been much more variable than
the one you aim for that you just mentioned?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:48:10 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The unicorn turning the gears passed out. -danjared, on buggy rss feeds <ismith>

Sleep journaling is a productive thing to do in any case if you're
having scheduling problems.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:51:14 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

If you're spending longer in bed than you think you should need, over a
period of weeks, and writing it down confirms that there aren't things
you're missing, then there may be something disrupting your sleep.
Fortunately Stanford has one of the leading clinics for sleep problems.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:51:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for COUGARS! <geofft>

price: somewhat, yeah. So in that respect waking up at 10:20 isn't too
surprising

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:53:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

It's just the (admittedly supplement-induced) ability to actually fall
asleep at midnight yet not wakeup until 10:20 that confuses me

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:58:06 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: .the .product is present in mass media
 <rnjacobs>

I've definitely had instances of "wake up naturally at X, decide I want/can
take Y more minutes, discover I wake up again the next time at Z>>Y later"

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

just saw an 18-wheelwr successfully uturn in a ~residential
neighborhood

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Mon Jul 16 14:58:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

lol areyou biking to caltrain?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:00:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I think I'm going to try continuing to melatone at midnight but tell
myself to wake up when I get up naturally, whenever that is, and just
have a failsafe alarm at 10

Class: geofft Instance: O_o
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:00:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Yeah. Despite cutting off multiple big trucks on Cesar Chavez I failed
to make the prsvious train :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:44:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

http://matt.might.net/articles/how-to-apply-and-get-in-to-graduate-school-in-science-mathematics-engineering-or-computer-science/

> Don't get a job. Once you get accustomed to a real salary and you
> start putting down roots, it's going to be difficult to go back to
> being a student. You'll be living in a small apartment, working on
> demanding problems all day long and getting paid a subsistence wage to
> do so. This will be your life for four to seven years. The least
> inconvenient time to do this sort of thing is right after
> undergraduate school. I often tell undergrads pondering a Ph.D.,
> "You're only dumb enough to get a Ph.D. once, so you'd better not let
> the moment pass you by." 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:44:42 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ding!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:44:53 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

a.k.a. why i barely and only got the one degree i got

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:47:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Installing mosh-server via ssh is so annoying :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:50:40 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I'd rather have [kcr] crush my hopes and dreams than the real world. -afarrell <ismith>

I'm still trying to convince myself that won't be true for me, that
I'll make it back eventually.  I'm starting to think that *might* be a
lie.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:51:00 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: 'AMERICA: THE COUNTRY WITH NO PANTS.' 'No, that's Scotland.' -kdrinkwa, kaduk <ismith>

But you only have to do it once.

Class: geofft Instance: ircq
Time: Mon Jul 16 15:53:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

"Is it just me, or is any package that uses clang to compile just
trying to be a hipster?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:00:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

Speaking as someone who was in industry for four years and then went
back for a PhD,
-I agree more with the "roots" than the "salary".  I had a decent
salary but admittedly didn't put down *too* many roots, but the roots
I did put down were far more difficult than the pay cut.  Then again,
I tend to be frugal, so I'm not in the habit of spending a lot.  
-It is easier right out of undergrad if you can handle it; grad
school is different from undergrad, but not as different as industry.
-I suspect the "least inconvenient time" part is true because of the
aforementioned roots combined with social pressures.  Right after
undergrad, many of your peers will be heading to grad school, and new
grad students will have come from undergrad.  If you've been in
industry for a while, fewer of your peers will be thinking about grad
school, so grad school (assuming full-time) will uproot your existing
life for something that your friends aren't doing.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:21:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Be careful with melatonin. You can develop a resistance to it, and
then it stops working. :/

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:27:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Yeah, it does distinctly work better when I use it once in
occasionally than regularly.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:28:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

That said, Medical said you really want to try using it for a month
straight to actually fix an offset sleep schedule (and you want that
to be a month that you can actually keep the same schedule every day)

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:34:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Forcing yourself to get up at the same time everyday without naps will
fix your schedule faster than that, and is far better for you. It's
hard, but it really works. You brain starts its 'cycle' at the
beginning of the day, so when you wake up determines when you go to
sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:57:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 16:57:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Growing up sounds like no fun.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:01:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"In your 30s and 40s, plenty of new people enter your life, through
work, children’s play dates and, of course, Facebook"

I think NYT Style and Fashion's style guide must mandate a certain
number of mentions of Social Media per page

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:01:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Shoes, much like Instagram and Twitter, are becoming increasingly
popular"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for BEER! <geofft>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:02:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

I dunno, old people use a LOT of Facebook.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:03:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

Marissa's mom keeps a close eye on things. Actual conversation: "No,
honey, you HAVE to invite her to the wedding ... didn't you see she
Liked your post about your Ph.D?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:05:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++htns

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:05:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I want the equivalent of `git log filename` (or `svn log filename`,
whatever) for packaged files

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:06:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm reasonably sure that information is not available.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:06:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

so I can run `apt-get log /etc/something.conf` and see all the
changelog entries that touched that file

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:06:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I bet you can compute it if you abuse broder's computer enough

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:30:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I wish I had more time to work on free software things

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:31:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for COUGARS! <geofft>

But I don't really object to having managed to spend the last several
non-work days not sitting in front of a computer coding, honestly.

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:52:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

These are the sorts of things that make me uncomfortable seeing in an
Ubuntu-specific patch (that doesn't claim to have been sent
upstream)...

-               if ((size / (6 * sizeof(unsigned int))) != 0) {
+               if ((size % (6 * sizeof(unsigned int))) != 0) {

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:53:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  an X-wing, a lightbo and a Gund. <eichin>

does that have a *really good* comment? or is it
just "yeah, we didn't know what we were doing before, and still don't"?

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:55:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

there are no comments.

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:55:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Oh, this is cherry-picked from upstream, looks like. Whew

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Mon Jul 16 17:56:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

http://git.alsa-project.org/?p=alsa-utils.git;a=commitdiff;h=8709ffe8

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 16 18:06:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

'But hey, this is the year of linux on the desktop, for people who
puts their phone on their desk when at work.'

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 16 18:06:57 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: you got my hopes up, and then twitter loaded properly. -melg <ismith>

*bows*

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Mon Jul 16 18:13:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

>> Romney has no foreign policy experience.
> Unless you count Swiss, Bermuda, Cayman Islands and Irish bank
> accounts.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 18:21:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

I keep getting network-manager and gnome-settings-daemon confused. I
have no idea why I think they're even remotely the same

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:48:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

One day I will learn that diff -Naur is never what I really want

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:50:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: No easy fighting with a heavy load!
 <rnjacobs>

?

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:50:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

-ar seems like the problem there?

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:50:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for BEER! <geofft>

It spews tons of useless binaries at my terminal.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:51:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

-Na is the problem

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:51:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

diff -ur is generally what I want interactively. (diff -Naur is fine
for generating patchfiles)

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:51:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. Yeah, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:51:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Anyway, apparently what I _really_ want is
diff -ur 1 2 | while read binary files one and two differ; do diff -u <(objdump -s $one) <(objdump -s $two); done | less

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:52:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I see the starlight, I'm walking through that starlight; lay this body down <kdrinkwa>

i,i diff -Naur an edraith ammen

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:52:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:53:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Meh. I still think -ar is the problem. -Na would be fine-ish with one
file (since you probably wouldn't use a binary), and -ar will break
things if you have any changed binaries in your trees.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:53:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guess -N makes this worse.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 19:53:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I do want -r for comparing trees. I just more want "you have a new
file", interactively, than the contents of it

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:09:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I was always a fan of diff -Nur, but then I got git.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:11:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

It's hard to stick arbitrary things in git.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:11:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

At the moment, I was comparing two unpacked Debian binary packages to
make sure I didn't change the build process. It would have been more
effort to import them into git than to just use diff correctly

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:12:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for PANDAS! <geofft>

(And git would not have let me do that objdump horror that confirmed
that only the debuglink/debug-id elf notes changed)

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:12:31 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I would actually have done that with Git.
  cd a
  git init
  git add .
  cd ../b
  git --git-dir=../a/.git diff
makes it not too difficult.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:12:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for TRAVELING! <geofft>

... ew

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:13:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

ITYM awesome

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:14:39 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Seriously, I like Git for this purpose because among other things,
(a) I know its behavior is very predictable for edge cases like
added/removed files; (b) I can easily filter and reformat it in various
ways to get the information I want clearly.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:15:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also, in practice I'd probably 'git commit', not just add, but that's one
of those things that makes a written-out list of commands look longer
even though it's a trivial step.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

It also totally fails to support git diff <(...)

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:16:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

True.  I hate that.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:16:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

"I also use sed and awk instead of perl"

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:16:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

That will fail to find files added in ../b.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:17:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for THE ARMY! <geofft>

"It will also break if one of the tarballs includes a .gitignore"

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:17:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How does it fail?

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:17:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

andersk: True enough.  I guess my Git compulsive habits would make me do
'git status'.  If I were scripting it I'd make a commit on each side.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:17:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Err, for <(...))

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:18:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

$ git diff <(true) <(true)
diff --git a/dev/fd/63 b/dev/fd/62
index c32e04d..b998b2e 120000
--- a/dev/fd/63
+++ b/dev/fd/62
@@ -1 +1 @@
-pipe:[836913]
\ No newline at end of file
+pipe:[836914]
\ No newline at end of file

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:18:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And with 'add -f', unless I actually wanted ignores.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:19:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

So I'm glad that after like five minutes of thinking about it, we've
successfully managed to predict all of git's predictable behaviors.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:19:35 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Shrug.  If you make a commit, git will compare the trees exactly.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:21:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

When writing out a script you have to be careful about how you make the
commits, because the commands are mainly for interactive use.  When I'm
working interactively, I'm not going to miss the ways they differ from
the behavior that in a script would be most predictable.

Class: geofft Instance: diff
Time: Mon Jul 16 20:21:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That's... kinda fail.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 22:23:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Wah I don't sing anymore wah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 22:24:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Wah I should wake up earlier so I can do things with my evenings wah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 22:29:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yay evenings

Class: geofft Instance: if you weren't already convinced our industry had problems with objectifying women
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:29:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/wnxin/yahoo_now_has_the_hottest_ceo_ever/
1506 upvotes.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:31:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cold-blooded, clean, methodical and thorough. <eichin>

and unsurprisingly, it's a picture from 10 or 12 years ago...

Class: geofft Instance: if...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:43:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

poor nytimes choice of headlines: "Yahoo Taps Marissa Mayer"

Class: geofft Instance: if...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:44:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Thanks for proving my point!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:44:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Okay, why is _everyone_ doing climbing

Class: geofft Instance: if...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:44:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Err, how? The nytimes? Or me personally?

Class: geofft Instance: if...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:48:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is that "our industry", or "the internet"?  Not that our industry
doesn't, but I'm not sure this is really an example.

Class: geofft Instance: if...
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:49:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I guess Reddit is no longer super-representative of our industry,
although it certainly used to be.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:50:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

At various times I've asked myself that about coffee, bridge, magic,
slacklining, beer, sipb, nhs, backpacking...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:50:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Argh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:51:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

I just looked at our docs (because I wanted to look up how to do
something in Creator), and kept reading, and got to the BareMetal docs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:51:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

and they suck :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:51:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is this... your first encounter with them?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:52:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Also, uh, I think I learned something from these docs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:53:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

(To be clear, this is the end-user manual, not code documentation.)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:57:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Huh, their CEO (Paul Maritz) is leaving?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:58:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Am I reading these news articles right that it's not voluntary? Weird!

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:58:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, where do you see it's not voluntary?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:59:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The only news article I've seen suggests that maybe it was, I think?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:59:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

http://gigaom.com/cloud/vmware-shakeup-maritz-is-reportedly-out/

"A tech trade publication is reporting that VMware CEO Paul Maritz is
being pushed out and will be replaced by Pat Gelsinger, the current
COO of EMC."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Mon Jul 16 23:59:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, I wonder which publication?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 00:00:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

(CRN, in the same paragraph)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 00:00:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, okay. I read
http://www.crn.com/news/virtualization/240003823/vmware-blockbuster-maritz-out-as-ceo-after-four-year-tenure.htm?pgno=1,
which doesn't really read like "VMware fired him".

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 00:02:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

GigaOM has a way more negative take.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 00:06:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Phrasing like "Maritz is out" suggests a firing.  I don't know if I've
ever seen that where it was voluntary.  Perhaps more concretely,
apparently it's "unclear if [he] will be taking another position within
EMC or leaving the company", which is also not what you expect on a
voluntary departure.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 01:04:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Right, ==price. The lack of "Paul Maritz will announce he is stepping
down to pursue his nonprofit curing mosquitos of malaria, but will
stay on until a replacement is found" suggests, at the least, that he
was encouraged to leave, if not per se fired.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:23:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for PILOTS! <geofft>

How did Connectix Virtual PC, SoftPC, etc. etc. work? These were x86
emulators for 68k Macs that, IIRC, ran Windows and Windows
applications pretty acceptably, and years before VMware. Were these
people just secretly good at binary translation? Was the 68k
sufficiently powerful to _emulate_ an x86 effectively?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:24:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They were pretty slow.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:25:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, are you sure they ran on 68k and not ppc? There existed "DOS
compatibility cards" for Macs in the Before Time that were basically a
PC on a NuBus card.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:25:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

They didn't run on 68k Macs; only PowerPC ones.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:25:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Which x86 did it emulate? I could believe an m68k running a <= 386
acceptable.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:25:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I used Virtual PC BITD, and it worked pretty well.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:25:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(Amusingly, it had the classic virtualization problem - disk I/O was
the bottleneck)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:27:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you want to dig into other emulation esoterica from BITD, there
was also SoftWindows for Solaris, NTVDM for NT on Alpha, the 68k
emulator that was part of classic MacOS on PPC...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:31:05 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: One nation, under surveillance... <eichin>

ARDI Executor went the other way - emulated a 68k
mac, on linux/windows/ppc-macos, without using apple roms

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:31:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did they write their own compatible ROM??

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:31:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ooh, I remember that one.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:31:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They reverse-engineered the Toolbox, right?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:32:05 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Reader's Digest Condensed Cliff Notes for Dummies <eichin>

(requirements: "90MHz Pentium processor or
better", "At least 32 MB RAM total, with 4MB available to Executor".)

right, sort of wine-like in that sense.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:32:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It came with its own app launcher and file browser instead of the
Finder.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:32:47 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I thought it was about that guy from The A-Team. -- aylee <eichin>

(huh, they're still around ...   http://www.ardi.com/exe_lin.php )
I used to run spaceward ho! under it, but there's an ipad port now :)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:33:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think they started giving it away for free a while ago.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:33:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

glasgall: Yeah, I'm not talking about the add-on x86 cards, awesome
idea as those were.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:33:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, neat, it's on github now

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:34:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'm only going to... Throw It Away... <eichin>

huh, yeah, wow, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executor_(software)
says 2008...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:34:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hi.  My name is Mark, and I Break Things.  // chorus:  Hi, Mark! <eichin>

hah "This version compiles and limps under Mac OS X 10.6.5."

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:35:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

So I'm pretty sure if I run Windows in, say, Bochs today, performance
won't be acceptable, and I certainly won't get to the point of being
annoyed at disk performance...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:35:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> At one point we had Executor running on an Alpha using 64-bit
> pointers for all our native code, but 32-bit pointers for the Mac
> memory.  We did this by altering gcc to allow us to use the ":32"
> bit-field notation with pointers.

o_O

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:35:53 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A small and shiny remote with lots of colorful buttons. <eichin>

windows 7, sure.  but windows 3.1 will probably fly :)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:36:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

D:

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:36:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: marketing targeted editing prohibited <eichin>

8-bit games in dosbox on the ipad are
faster-than-realtime, after all...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:37:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

bochs is kinda famously slow

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:37:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's, uh, not how I would have done that.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:37:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, I think Bochs focuses on accuracy rather than speed.
"It's the MAME of x86 emulators"

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:38:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Has bloat outpaced Moore's Law? The implication is that Bochs on a
late-'90s PPC would not actually run Windows well

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:38:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It wouldn't.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:38:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Bochs is a terrible example because it is basically completely
unoptimized.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:39:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I turned to Bochs when I needed to emulate a plain 386 without
hugepage support (but I don't think I got it working, because fuck
Bochs)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:39:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Hm, I guess qemu is actually performant, even without kqemu or kvm.
But did the ideas in it derive from VMware, or no?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:40:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I did get it working for 6.828, but it involved building my own from
source and then broke mysteriously when I tried it again a year later.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:40:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I *think* qemu predates VMware...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:41:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I guess qemu 0.1 was in 2003:
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/2003-March/015577.html

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:43:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

So it doesn't predate VMware, but VMware didn't invent BT, AFAIK,
they just used it to do full x86 virtualization.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:43:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for MODELS! <geofft>

And qemu didn't, or?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:44:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Well, qemu never ran the guest userspace code natively, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:44:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(Maybe it did so partially with kqemu, I'm not sure)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:44:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Also, Wikipedia has the unsubstantiated assertion that qemu "runs
significantly slower than alternatives on PCs that lack hardware CPU
virtualization." I wonder if they're just referring to VMware

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:45:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Also, an explicit design goal of qemu was to use an IR form in the
middle of its JT,which is why it can run ~any architecture on ~any
other architecture without needing NxM translators.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:46:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

This is awesome, but you can almost certainly out-perform it with a
microoptimized hand-tuned x86->x86 BT, which is basically what I
assume VMware has

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:46:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

I'm not sure, from my reading of the "Comparison" paper, that VMware's
main innovation was running the guest unmodified...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:46:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, innovation over what?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:46:55 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Are you referring to "A Comparison of Software and Hardware
Techniques for x86 Virtualization"?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:47:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

BT. I guess I'm not sure what the innovation _is_...

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:47:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:47:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, that paper postdates HVM becoming ~widespread and is
comparing against HVM.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:47:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

So of course "we run the guest ring3 unmodified" is not interesting
in that context -- both solutions look nearly identical when guest
ring3 code is running.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:48:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Right, but, uh. _Was_ there a technical innovation at all?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:48:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, define "technical innovation".

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:48:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

They realized you could use a bunch of pre-existing technologies in a
way no one had reall done before to do something people generally
assumed was impossible -- efficient x86 virtualization.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:49:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Is that a technical innovation? Sure seems like it. Did they invent
from scratch some fundamentally new technological primitive? Not that
I know of.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:49:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Yes, that's a technical innovation... but is that not what Connectix
had?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:50:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Dunno anything about Connectix

Class: geofft Instance: history.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:51:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Why have I never read this paper, this sounds awesome.

"Analysis of the Intel Pentium’s Ability to Support a Secure Virtual
Machine Monitor", by John Scott Robin, U.S. Air Force.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:51:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I guess the word "virtualization" implies some amount of running
unmodified code, but a)given that paper, I'm hesitant to believe that
definitions of virtualization are useful and b) there existed VPC for
Windows

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:51:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark) SoftPC definitely ran on 68k.  I.. might even have a copy
somewhere if you care.

Class: geofft Instance: history.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:51:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(published in 2000)

Class: geofft Instance: history.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:51:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Haha

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:52:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

and thus x86-x86 VPC.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:52:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I assume that (like everything else) binary translation has existed
since the 1960's on IBM mainframes

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:53:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I think ultimately I want to know why Connectix got bought out by its
guest OSes and died instead of becoming VMware, when they were so
almost there.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:56:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(starking) These days the best Mac-on-Linux emulator is Sheepshaver.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 14:57:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "These days the best Mac-on-Linux emulator is anything that
emulates/virtualizes an x86 with UEFI"

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:03:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation! <lfaraone>

How're you?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:03:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation! <lfaraone>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:04:30 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Has bloat outpaced Moore's Law? The implication is that Bochs
> on a late-'90s PPC would not actually run Windows well

bochs on an iPhone does not run windows 98 well.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:04:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:05:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Sorry, that's Classic-Mac-on-Linux. Not OS X.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:06:12 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> These days the best Mac-on-Linux emulator is

so, virtualbox.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:07:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have a hard time with "best" and "virtualbox" in the same sentence.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:07:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Despite what the chip implanted on the back of my neck by Oracle says.

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 15:08:00 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

"best" does not imply "good"

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:08:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

shadow: Wait, why bochs and not qemu?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:09:25 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

https://github.com/dbrashear/bochs

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:09:42 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

i did not do the port

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:10:08 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

(i did update it)

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

but _why_

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:10:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Isn't qemu obviously the right answer, and already existent?

Class: geofft Instance: history
Time: Tue Jul 17 16:11:04 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

well, someone had already did the work for iphone for bochs. i
intended to switch to qemu and never did

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:50:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

VMware, moar lieke DerpMware

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:50:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Hm, doesn't have the right ring to it. VMderp?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:50:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Herpualization?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:50:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

VMderpnel?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:52:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

VMderp sounds okay.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 17:52:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

At least it's not HerperV.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:10:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] "Here is what I’ve confirmed so far: 1) Maritz was not ousted
this was his decision according to sources close to Maritz, and 2)
Maritz will not be the CEO of any spin out."
(http://siliconangle.com/blog/2012/07/17/pat-gelsinger-as-ceo-of-vmware-video-what-pat-gelsinger-would-do-at-vmware/)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:12:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, hey, there is a press release: "VMware today announced that Paul
Maritz will be succeeded in the post as Chief Executive Officer of
VMware, effective September 1, 2012, by Pat Gelsinger, currently
president and chief operating officer, EMC Information Infrastructure
Products.  Maritz will remain a board member of VMware and will take
on a new technology strategist role at EMC. Gelsinger will also be
named to VMware’s Board of Directors, effective September 1, 2012.  "
(https://www.vmware.com/company/news/releases/vmw-exec-change-07-17-12.html)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:15:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:17:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I expect that the sources for the original CRN story either didn't know
whether it was Maritz's decision or not, or didn't say.  I don't think
they would have written it as they did if they had known/believed that it
was his own decision.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:20:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mean, it's conceivable that SiliconAngle is wrong. That said, "We
moved him to be Chief Strategist at EMC" does not ring to me of "We
thought he was sucking at running VMware, so we fired him.", and
seems more likely to be voluntary.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:21:58 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Really? If he wasn't sucking, why would he leave?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:24:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Chief Strategist at the bigger (parent) company seemed like it'd be
more fun?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 17 18:53:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I doubt Chief Strategist of the corporate overlord is actually a more
useful position than CEO of the company itself

Class: geofft Instance: til
Time: Tue Jul 17 19:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

xdpyinfo -ext all

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 17 19:18:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

caffeine: the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:14:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

coworker: "So I found that on Oneiric, ALSA and Pulse are both
  configured to output to each other..."
me: "How does the sound get out?"
coworker: "I'm not sure."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:15:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the last time I investigated that, the answer was "alsa
configuration files in /usr/share/somethingorother"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:15:22 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

"Backwards, through pulseaudio"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Yeah, we're digging into /usr/share/alsa/init

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:27:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

> Some portions are written by Greg Kroah-Hartman greg@kroah.com and Kay
> Sievers kay.sievers@vrfy.org.

AHA

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:27:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

THAT is why you look like udev

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:32:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is this ? Pulse? ALSA?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:33:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you guys use non-LTSes?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:35:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Yes, yes, and yes

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:36:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for BEER! <geofft>

ALSA Sprach Zarathustra

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:36:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

The Sun ALSA Rises

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:37:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

ALSA Well That Endsa Well

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:39:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> non-LTSes

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:40:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Hardware support

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:41:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Customers just show up way too often with "this new laptop was
released yesterday and it doesn't work you guys suck"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:42:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Telling them they can't use laptops that weren't supported in Lucid
will really be no fun

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:44:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, okay, I didn't realize hardware changes quickly enough for that
to be an issue.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:45:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sandybridge has happened since Lucid, and it's nearly ubiquitous now.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:45:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Yeah, that's a decently big one.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:45:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(among many, many other examples)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:45:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait wait what does sandybridge have to do with stuf not working in
linux?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:46:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's nice if your laptop can display graphics on its screen.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:46:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

and the i915 drm driver in lucid decidedly does not know how to drive
sb

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:47:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

A customer and [redacted] both asked us about a month ago if we
supported this one desktop that _hadn't even released_ yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:47:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Heck, Ivy Bridge hardware is out now, and patches for Haswell have
already landed.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:47:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and that's not even _out_ yet)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:47:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Yeah, Ivy Bridge is vaguely problematic, still.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:48:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

> and the i915 drm driver in lucid decidedly does not know how to
drive

Linux is stupid :p

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 20:48:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

On the other hand, Valley View will eventually be out and then we can
dance on the corpse of powervr on x86.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:00:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Right, I should start finding monitors (maybe used)

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:04:47 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: My iguana's sick / He's all floppy. Could he have / Reptile dysfunction? <jesstess>

Call Me Maybe + something like syscalls, calling conventions, call/cc,
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:05:06 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:05:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for COUGARS! <geofft>

Hmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:05:18 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I wonder what happens when you strace someone's kids. -afarrell <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:05:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Weren't you going to write us a SIPB musical?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:05:56 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Kto skazal "Miao"? <jesstess>

Also seriously, we could Kickstarter the hell out of a album.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:06:03 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: We'll burn that bridge when we get to it. <jesstess>

an album, even

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:07:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hey, I just exec'ed you, and this is crazy, but here's my VDSO page, so
syscall me maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:07:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hm, use something instead of VDSO

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:08:27 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: a list for everything and everything in its list -pbaranay <ismith>

s/so//

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:08:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:20:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Hey TI-BASIC
Is just too crazy
So here's my program
It's for Z80
And all the math teachers
Try to hate me
But here's my program
It's for Z80

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:20:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

now that's the quality i've come to expect

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:21:09 2012 Host: 18.111.14.139
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

"And all the math teachers" doesn't scan right

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:21:22 2012 Host: 18.111.14.139
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

We should have enough to put together an album.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:21:53 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Why, because they have a monopoly on violence to your hair? -geofft <ismith>

Enough what?  Money, songs, math teachers?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:22:32 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: 'Yes: malloc().' 'And its nicer cousin, beneoc().' -oremanj, pbaranay <ismith>

Hey, geofft, weren't you BTSOCS (bemoaning the state of choral
singing) recently?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:22:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Old Horn to All Atlantic said, Now where did Frankie learn his trade? <kdrinkwa>

Enough sound-engineer-hours?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:23:40 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Kto skazal "Miao"? <jesstess>

I'll be in Nashville soon with a full studio at my disposal, if we had
full songs to record.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:30:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Null values escaping
Pure functions are breaking
My code ain't typechecking
How do you think we'll use ghc?

Hey I fmapped you
And this is crazy
But you're a monad
I'll call it Maybe
And all the pure functions
That might return b
Take Just a | Nothing
When called with maybe

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:30:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:31:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:32:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Before I learned me a Haskell
My code was so bad
My code was so bad
My code was so so bad

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:33:40 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Similarly, seen at work:

Don't use exceptions,
Control flow's crazy
Just use an Option
(In Haskell, Maybe)

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:35:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

I'm trying to figure out how to split "ABI" across lines to make it
rhyme with "maybe" but I'm not sure that will work

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:36:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

A/B testing?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:37:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Test Me A/B" scans nicely

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:43:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

broder: I think you want something like
Hey, I exec'd you
And this is crazy
There's no SYSENTER
So call INT 80

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:48:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Tue Jul 17 21:55:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Nice

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:19:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Over the weekend I was using my wifi thing (which you'll notice I have
failed to come up with a good noun for) on BART, and then lost track
of where it was. It turned out it'd slipped inside my backpack, but I
was worried it was on the floor. The guy next to me had previously
asked me about it and I said that I was using the Virgin Mobile plan
because it was a good price, so when he saw me looking around for it,
he loudly asked the seats nearby, "Hey, anyone seen a virgin dongle?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:20:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

I don't think anyone understood the question.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:20:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Damn. I was hoping the punchline would be, "And of course, this being
SF, no one even did a double-take"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:20:35 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: imsith: Darth Ian, the Snarkbot Sith. -pbaranay <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:21:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Well, this being SF and people on BART generally not saying anything
about the craziness of anyone else on BART, no one _but him_ did a
double-take. But he quickly tried to awkwardly rephrase, and failed

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:21:50 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: why can't they be cuddly ghosts in the machine? -rnjacobs <ismith>

I ... CART software almost invariably requires a dongle for DRM
purposes.  I asked my provider about it in class once, and she was
convinced I was making the word up.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:22:20 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

"ABI" rhymes with "maybe" if you cheat and pronounce it like "aybee."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:22:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

What is the sign for "dongle"? / Is there one?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:23:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Does anyone do that, ever?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:23:41 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Well, no. That's why I called it cheating.

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:24:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't think we're going to beat "call INT 80"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:24:43 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: But you have a Wikipedia page!  You're already _done_ with life! -geofft <ismith>

There is not.  You'd probably indicate "thing that plugs in" (one
sign, although it's more a classifier than a lexeme) or fingerspell.
Or sign something more about its function - so in your case, you'd
probably translate it as "NETWORK"
(internet/network/web/link/contact are all almost the same sign).

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:25:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The bong hits the gnome! The gnome turns into stone! <ezyang>

So we need some people to record and post these on YouTube, right?

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request.d
Time: Tue Jul 17 22:25:12 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You'd prefer tcshing it into submission? -mitchb <ismith>

htns: we're zephyr.  I'm pretty sure we can make it catch on.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 23:22:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Hm, maybe cranking every single VMware log level up to "debug" was not
the best idea

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 23:23:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

For instance, this seems less than useful:
Guest: [   debug] [vmusr:vmusr] <null>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 23:28:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Also, this thing synchronizes the time like every ten seconds, wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 17 23:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FARMERS! <geofft>

It is super-confusing to see like five log messages for merely
hovering over the start button

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Tue Jul 17 23:31:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Guys, guys, I think you want Prefix Gentoo

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 18 00:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

oops -> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 18 01:23:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

ha. 

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Wed Jul 18 02:14:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Vaguely tempted to pay $18 for an ebook hymnal...

Class: geofft Instance: nerd.song.request
Time: Wed Jul 18 03:09:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

I'm intrigued.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 03:12:15 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       Also, this thing synchronizes the time like every ten seconds, wut

We put a *lot* of effort into time. I think. Though, why our solution
is rapidly resyncing, I dunno.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 10:09:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Because nothing else works"?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

brb, moving to Copenhagen
http://nyti.ms/MGLTWw

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: TULSA (n.) A slurp of beer which has accidentally gone down your shirt collar. <ahailes>

awesome

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:28:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for WOMBATS! <geofft>

"in which city employees take to the streets with boxes of chocolate
to reward cyclists who adhere to the five rules of cycling"

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:28:29 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: remember, it takes 42 muscles to frown
and only 4 to pull the trigger of a decent sniper rifle. <eichin>

heh, that top picture shows that they have the
swedish problem

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:28:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

OK I will totally stop at every stop sign if I get chocolate

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:29:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cooking-Related Memetic Disorder <eichin>

(people bicycling while texting)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:29:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

++
København also has the first and simplest city bike sharing system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_City_Bikes

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:29:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, that's the first thing I noticed in the picture.  Do people in
Sweden do that a lot?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:29:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: HARBLEDOWN (vb.) To manoeuvre a double mattress down a winding staircase. <ahailes>

I've considered doing that a couple times, but I like my phone too much to risk
dropping it or something

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

I've checked the time on my phone like that. Texting is too
complicated

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:30:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I didn't watch the video the first time I read the article.
She took a bike to the hospital when she was about to go into labor,
and rode a bike back with the kid?!?!??!?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:30:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for COUGARS! <geofft>

(since I don't wear a watch, since I'd lose it)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:30:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also not a single helmet in that picture.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:31:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Have you at least gotten shoes you can tie now geofft -_-

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:31:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Only real wizards can write scrolls.
 <rnjacobs>

When kbyers was in france renting a bicycle and asked for a helmet, she got
"Oh, you silly Americans. Here."

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:31:19 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

IME, the trick to exsting while biking is to hold the phone as far forward
as possible so it's not in the near field of your vision. Or at least
less so.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:31:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. -- slashdot, about the iPod <eichin>

so, at one point laura and I were waiting to cross
tracks in Uppsala, and concluded that at a major intersection, with
two lanes of car traffic and a high speed through-train, the *real*
risk was getting hit by someone bicycling with a phone in one hand and
a cigarette in the other :)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:32:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

No, the replacement shoelaces are still on the table at home... also I
should buy a helmet, I left mine on Caltrain a few weeks back

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:32:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We'll meet again... don't know where, don't know when... but we'll meet again, some sunny day! <eichin>

(sweden has always been 5-10 years ahead of the US in
phone tech, as well as phone-related pathologies :)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:32:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Geofft get the ones that are super baller and don't need to be tied!!

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:34:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

GET THE LIGHT UP LACES THEN PEOPLE WON'T RUN YOU OVER WHILE BIKING

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:34:38 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: At least ismith is a dirtier man than me. -danjared <ismith>

NO SHOES.  SHOES ARE A TOOL OF THE BIPEDAL HEGEMONY.  YOU'RE NOT A
SQUARE, ARE YOU?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:34:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

YOU SHOULD GET SUPER BALLER SHOES

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:35:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

GET THE ONES THAT LIGHT UP 

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:35:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Do they make kiddie light up shoes but for adults?

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:36:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

if your feet are small enough, you can still fit in kiddie light-up
shoes

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 15:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

i,i EL wire as shoelaces

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:03:08 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Heh, that would be great if you could figure out how to get the EL
wire to not short 

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:06:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I actually kind of want a thing I can strap to my arm that has a
blinking arrow on it so I can signal turns more obviously.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:08:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Also known as a ... hand?
[What's wrong with your hands?]
Also, maybe you should get real lighte turn signals.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:08:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PREFROSH! <geofft>

My hands are somewhat dark. Especially at night.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:08:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

White gloves! :)

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:12:50 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: My branch, your branch, my branch your branch! -pbaranay <ismith>

Actually, you can get some very cool looking glow in the dark gloves.

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:18:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Does anyone understand Danish / Scandinavian culture well enough to
explain this line?

“People were so happy about it,” said Lene Hartmann, Fureso’s climate
project leader. “One rider said, ‘We feel like the trolls are taking care
of us.’ ” 

Class: geofft Instance: nyt
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:27:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I believe the trolls are associated with the forest (context for that
statement is the addition of lighting to a bike road that goes through
a dark forest), but don't know more than that.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:44:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Kwality

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:44:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for PETS! <geofft>

The suspending progress log entries went smoothly from 0% to 97%,
paused for a few seconds, and then went to 98%, 99%, and 101%.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:45:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Math is hard.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

I guess it started from -1%, which explains it. Or something.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:51:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Writing a more awesome tail -f is _probably_ yak shaving

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:52:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What could you possibly do to make tail -f more awesome? It randomly
gives you a cookie if you run it for more than 1 hour?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:52:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I think the features I want are
- re-globbing via inotify (so I can tail -f '/tmp/vmware-mokafive/*'
  and have it pick up when a new player starts and adds new logs)
- distinguishing multiple files via color

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 16:52:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Maybe network support, but netcat's working well enough

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:17:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Clearly I misunderstand Bitcoin, but I thought
anonymity/untraceability was anticorrelated with being a good
cryptocurrency.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:18:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Why does everyone go "omg crypto" and assume this means you're
anonymous?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:18:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait why do those link?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:18:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Bitcoin is ... not actually all that untraceable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:21:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

adehnert: If you want to be able to ensure that a unit of
cryptocurrency isn't double-spent (which is the classic problem), one
good way to do it is to trace the history of the money, which is I
think bitcoin's solution -- you can see in the block chain every
transfer. This prevents you from attempting to convince two people
you're transferring the same coin.

As soon as you do that, and as soon as you exchange something of
real-world value to it, someone has bound the public record of that
coin being spent to a real-world identity, and can then track where
that coin goes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:22:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

And so it's hard for me to do the make-multiple-nyms thing, where I
legitimately convert my regular paycheck to BTC in my public account,
then transfer the BTC to my secret account nobody knows is me when I
purchase WAREZ, because the transfer of the coin from public-me to
secret-me is public

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:25:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

yes. bitcoin is anonymous in the way cryptographic signing is
anonymous. :/

you can obfuscate things, or at least add ample plausible denyability,
but it's not inately anonymous in any way.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:25:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Names are cheap in bitcoin, so you can perform the transfer by
laundering through an arbitrary number of throwaway intermediaries,
but traffic analysis will tend to out, in the end.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:26:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> bitcoin is anonymous in the way cryptographic signing is anonymous. :/

That's a pretty good line.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:26:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, right.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:26:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

i,i Tor-style onion rounting for Bitcoin laundering

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:28:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You could presumably partially solve this with a ~trusted
intermediary, who will take your BTC and transmit an equal ammount to
the nym you tell them to. (Which requires a sufficiently high-traffic
intermediary, and has various trust and traffic analysis issues.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:29:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Hm. I wonder if there's a way to do onion routing in bitcoin without
trusting the relays.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

that is conventionally how that works, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:31:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

trusted pooling/redistribution

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

Well, the obvious problem is that the consequences of a Tor relay
misbehaving are that your file doesn't get transferred, but you don't
*lose* lose.  If a theoretically-similar Bitcoin relay misbehaved, it
would be taking your money (until you detected the misbehavior and
stopped sending money through it).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:32:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:33:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I don't see an obvious way around that, but I'm posing the question.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:33:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

As an annoying workaround, you could transmit small quantities at a time
and stop if any don't get through.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:33:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Which you probably do want to do anyways, to foil traffic analysis.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:34:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which might not be too terrible if you're not in a hurry.  Unlike Tor,
you generally aren't looking for round trips and the stuff you're moving
is fungible, both of which make you less sensitive to latency.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:34:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Presumably you want everyone who uses this system to always do
identical-sized transfers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:34:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:35:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Possibly a short list of sizes spaced by large ratios like 10x.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:35:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

I mean, there's a bit of crypto-theory literature about this with
respect to bit agreement, multiparty computation, etc.  
I'm not sure whether it's adaptable to this setting or not.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:37:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

at a minimum, the way that [most of] the bitcoin network[s] are set
up, transactions are effectively atomic, so the worry isn't incredibly
much a node going down per se; it's a node deciding to steal your
money. especially given that [1] it's not real money, which limits
enforcement and [2] you're trying to be anonymous, which completely
destroys enforcement.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:42:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I wonder what the data looks like (and it seems pretty easy to just
read out of the block chain directly). I would bet there are failure
modes like "in this 48-hour period, every single payment from this
intermediary went to one of a few dozen nonce users, all of whom
promptly paid Silk Road".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:42:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

I guess I actually have no idea what Bitcoin usage patterns look like.
What fraction is legal transactions? etc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Because, unlike Tor, given the threat of stealing money it seems hard
to get people to use these anonymizing relays for all their legal
transactions that they don't mind being public

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:45:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think the way I'd suggest using a network like this is to transfer
(say) $100 each month from your public account to a secret one, in
10c chunks spread out over the month.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:45:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

sure, there's some definite plausibility in saying that accounts that
put money into bitcoin anonymizers are likely to be associated with
people who do illegal things. the only thing it really gets you is
that, if done correctly, [1]  it's hard to get a match on which things
and [2] you have a massive pile of plausible denyability.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:45:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

But then you're obviously doing something shady.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:45:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Then fill the public account by exchanging USD in the open, and do all
your BTC spending from the secret one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:46:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't think you're any more obviously doing something shady than if you
use Tor.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:46:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

price: You can't directly transfer from a public account to a secret
one without compromising the secrecy, AIUI.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:46:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right, that's the step to do through the anonymizing network.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:47:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There's always (a) I'm a crazy privacy person, and (b) "I'm buying
porn, not drugs" or something. (Which I think maybe is basically the
Tor approach?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:47:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Which has a definite economic risk, which I guess is why you want to
limit it to $100 10c-at-a-time, but means your secret account only
buys sketchy things.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:48:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

As long as you've got little in transit at once, this seems mostly
fine. I sorta assume rating the intermediaries might keep them mostly
in line.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

And so if everyone does that, then the anonymizer only recursively
buys sketchy things, and so everyone using the anonymizer is
recursively buying sketchy things, and that's publicly obvious.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:48:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

No.  The point is that at 10c at a time, the economic risk is minimal.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:48:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So you do this to supply all your BTC spending.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:48:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

OK, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:49:03 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: This is one of the things that Ayn Rand, and incidentally my mom, are right about. -pbaranay <ismith>

Except that now you need legit merchants to also accept Bc.  Do a
non-trivial number of those exist?  (If not, "Ian doesn't have
anywhere near $100/month of nearlyfreespeech hosting, but he's dumped
that much into Bc" is problematic.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:49:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think you can buy, like, bottled water? I don't know if the prices
are sane.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Yeah, Tor has an advantage in that it can access public sites and
there's an advantage in using it to do so. I guess you can convert
BTC to USD on the other end...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:50:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

And hm, having enough money end up in USD instead of in sketchy
merchants' hands might be enouch plausible deniability

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

yes. but if no-one can prove that you're actually doing anything
sketchy, it /strictly speaking/ doesn't matter if they don't like you.

of course, if people went to track you down, they can [where "people"
means the government] prety much always come up with a reason.

it does get you the fact that if they think you did something illegal
but have no way of knowing what, it's harder to do anything about it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:51:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

also that, although it's a bit more of a stretch.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:51:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for TWINKIES! <geofft>

All right, I don't mind customers so much any more, but can we get rid
of _monitors_?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:52:53 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I have no point here, I just want to smith. -geofft <ismith>

Like, screens?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:53:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

also there's the argument that "if you knew that I was spending the
sameamount in anonymized dolars, I'd be doing it wrong."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:53:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:53:53 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, Andrew, are you describing the Guild or the UA? -pbaranay <ismith>

Presumably you could do USD-BTC-USD-in-Dwolla, but t hen you have "so,
uh, why?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:55:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for AIRLINES! <geofft>

"Because I believe in privacy and other people's rights to drugs",
the same argument as "why are you running all your normal traffic
through Tor when you're not sketchy at all" 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 17:56:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I think, if someone gave me a tool that would take $10 and churn it
through the block chain and give me $10 back at some random future
point, I'd use it. I don't have any use for Bitcoin myself, so the
activation energy is way higher than Tor (and I don't even use that)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:00:40 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The market does not care if you are sad. -kcr <ismith>

I suppose basically ==, especially if there was a way to use  that
money without having to transfer it in reverse.  (Say, send it to
Dwolla and have an ATM or debit card.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:06:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for BARISTAS! <geofft>

What's weather? I forgot

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:06:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's that thing you can see over Twin Peaks some mornings.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:07:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for PILOTS! <geofft>

Heh. I think Thursday and Friday it was super-interesting to see
thick grey clouds covering everything two miles or so north of here,
but Redwood City was still bright and sunny

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:31:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

bitcoin laundering was tried by duncant, yah?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:35:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Wow, announced to offline within two weeks,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=12751.0

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:36:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

yeah, there's a good story there. I'm not the one to tell it.
"It worked well while it lasted"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:41:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait! There's something there you can't see! It's a Higgs Boson! <ezyang>

Is this basically, "he got 'sploited"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:43:10 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I was all, like, 'am I my brother's postdoc?' -pbaranay <ismith>

That's w hwat it looks like from the thread.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:43:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for TWINKIES! <geofft>

aaaaaaaaaaaargh wtf vmware

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:43:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

something like that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:44:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

How is "debug" an unknown log level

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:44:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

it was much more entertaining IRL

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:44:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

(than on the thread)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:45:00 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: (Names redacted to protect the innocent. ismith is not innocent.) -pbaranay <ismith>

It usually is :P

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:46:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER. <mherdeg>

Ah, it was a Twisted app. He must have gotten himself ... into a
pickle.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:46:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, huh, comment #29 is interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

"I bet I could take a uniform random ugrad in CSAIL, hand them a basic
description of blind sigs, and they would produce what you did"
that part?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:48:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

No, the later part, about how to do this without a trusted
intermediary / without anybody else every holding BTC.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:48:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

I like how startup culture has determined that it has the obligation
to tell you to ditch your friends because they're not ambitious enough
http://leostartsup.com/2012/07/the-people-you-spend-time-with/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:48:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

yeah, it was an interesting discussion following.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:49:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Sounds like a cult.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

but that part was pretty elitist or something.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:49:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

I mean, Luke 14:26.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:50:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Haha, ++

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:50:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

I didn't even notice the creepiness, just the arrogance

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:52:19 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: INTERNET!  MAKE ME NOT BORED! -wings <ismith>

I thought duncant handled it pretty well.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:52:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Oh, "debug " is an unknown log level because your ini file parser
doesn't call rstrip. I'm still unhappy, but not very

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 18:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

I think he handled most aspects of it pretty well, considering it was
a hobby :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:07:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for COUGARS! <geofft>

All right, that's it, I'm not doing any more work until someone gives
me the full VMware source code

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:09:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Also a port of ESX to Debian, and a pony.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:11:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

ESX is RHEL, I thought?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:11:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You should totally be able to deal with RHEL.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:35:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At the end of that thread (months after the service shut down), someone
points to their own thing that they still seem to be operating:
http://www.bitcoinfog.com/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:37:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's centralized, unlike onion routing, so there's only one entity to
trust or stop trusting.  The money moves in hub-and-spoke fashion; you
deposit to a fresh address they create for you.  Then your payouts come
from some other address, and later when they feel like it they move the
deposits out of where you put them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:39:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The fact that it's centralized is kind of a bummer, in that you're
telling that central entity both your source and destination accounts, so
you're completely trusting them with your anonymity.  (And they could be
forced to breach it.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:49:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

well, I think duncan's approach was: spam it with legit transactions,
and he is unable to connect source and destination, only possible
combinations thereof. And use standard amounts (10 bitcoin, 100
bitcion).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:53:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did someone mention the RSA-blind-signing-based Bitcoin laundry run by
someone at MIT (shit, I forgot who) yet?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:53:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

duncan.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:54:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

This is what I've been talking about.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:56:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, I was scrolled up.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:57:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Blind signing means you don't need to trust the third party not to
reveal the pairs of linked transactions.  But you still trust them not
to take your money.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

right, but he can give out every possible source/destination pair

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

and link amounts if you use non-standard amounts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

that's in the global record

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's why you're supposed to use power-of-two amounts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

yep :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't know what you mean by "every possible source/destination pair"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:58:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

er, everything that goes in, everything that comes out, but not
linked.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:59:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

He can reveal the whole set of Bitcoin addresses that he uses.
Probably in a credible way.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 19:59:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

so if the traffic is really low, there's not much anon.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:00:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Right -- it would be to the benefit of the operator of such a service
to run fake transactions through their own system.  But they could
later reveal which ones were fake.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:00:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

mhm. thus the "spam it with legit transactions" part

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:02:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

I think that was the first time I used "copy con:" since the '90s

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:06:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Here is no kitten but only rock, rock and no kitten and the sandy road.
 <rnjacobs>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:07:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

pro

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:08:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Bonus points if you use PRN or COM

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:09:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

<a href="file:///c:\con\con">Click here!</a>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 20:10:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

about:<script>while(1){window.open(document.src);}</script>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 21:25:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

screw you too nvidia

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 18 21:26:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

nice last zsig

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 18 21:40:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for PILOTS! <geofft>

-> SF

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 22:53:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

<stark> I submit as a counterpoint to the ditch your friend
post this classic: http://www.lewissociety.org/innerring.php

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Jul 18 22:55:04 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

TL;DR: Don't try to ingratiate yourself with the people you
think are better than yourself. Just do awesome things, and
you will find yourself surrounded by the next generation of
awesome people.

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Thu Jul 19 13:23:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Melatonin at 2:30 since I was totally not close to sleepy, even
though I knew it would be problematic... really couldn't get up at 9,
kinda got up at 10

Class: geofft Instance: analogous-to-ksploracle
Time: Thu Jul 19 13:42:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Waseem Daheracle

Class: geofft Instance: analogous-to-ksploracle
Time: Thu Jul 19 13:49:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

jbarnacle?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 14:07:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

*cries*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 14:07:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

you guys need to stop making deals with customers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 14:08:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

all they do is complain

Class: geofft Instance: analogous-to-ksploracle
Time: Thu Jul 19 14:40:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

jbarnacle is better

Class: geofft Instance: analogous-to-ksploracle
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:23:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Adam Glasgoragall

Class: geofft Instance: analogous-to-ksploracle
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:24:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

"no relation to Minerva McGoragall"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:50:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Our couch, allegedly, exists!

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:51:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Went to pay the last of it and the guy said it arrived and will be
delivered tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:51:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for PILOTS! <geofft>

I'm excited

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:52:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

:D Couch warming party! (Uh, that doesn't sound quite right, does it?
:P)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:53:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Not really, no.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 15:53:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Uh, party anyway? :)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:13:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

There will likely be a housewarming next weekend (i.e. in a week)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:13:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for FARMERS! <geofft>

If you have preferences between Saturday and Sunday let me know

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:16:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, hey, maybe I'm not holding my party that weekend, then...

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:21:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

Hey, I'll be in town starting that Sunday evening!  Though it's not
clear I'll have figured out what I'm doing enough to go to a party.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:22:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ooh, when are you leaving again?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:23:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

The following Saturday evening (August 4).

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 16:53:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Not the 29th would be good for me (so Saturday works). :) Thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:19:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

rye: Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:20:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

You're in SF on the 29th and in Boston on the 4th, or?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:28:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Okay, what is actually up with katamari?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:28:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

I have a bus error... Also I should start doing more monitoring of my
backup barnowls. I _think_ the one on team-rocket is fine

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

naaaaa na na na na na na na

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:06 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Macs have ARD on when you're trying to connect to them?  Oh my. -mats_a <ismith>

... how many backup barnowls do you have?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

I try to have one at all times

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Hmm, an interesting question.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Even when one crashes."

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Which means, in practice, I have multiple

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for PILOTS! <geofft>

I used to have one on every SIPB office head, then SIPB got mad at me

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:30:49 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: If there's an infinite amount of numbers, you can name them whatever you want. -wings <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Jul 19 17:36:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I can confirm you have a barnowl process on team-rocket.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:08:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Is it strace vmware o'clock? Please tell me it's not

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:19:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Why is vmplayer keeping trying to inotify_add_watch on ~/.local/share?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:19:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Probably because it wants to export it to the guest via hgfs?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:20:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

wat?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig.not-the-same
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:20:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

SEO OPTIMIZER
SED OPTIMIZER

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:20:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REBOOTLESS UPDATE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Also hgfs is disabled

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:20:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

On the host or the guest? I bet vmplayer is dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:20:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

should be disabled in vmx properties in the host...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:21:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for FARMERS! <geofft>

It also keeps statting ~/.vmware/preferences, which puzzles me given
that you actually _can_ just inotify on that

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:31:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Oops, hungry

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:31:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I probably should have eaten lunch, despite having just eaten

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I'm seeing a pattern here... :P

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:53:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I'm way closer than I would like to be at being able to read X
protocol requests out of strace

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:53:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Like, I can basically only recognize that, but even that is a bit much

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 18:53:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

(and not identify the individual requests)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jul 19 21:11:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for BARISTAS! <geofft>

As if my day didn't have enough hatred already

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jul 19 21:12:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Engineering manager is balking at the section of the Windows testing
requirements that says "Company shall pay Microsoft...". We're a
little unclear on whether we actually do need to pay them

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jul 19 21:12:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

(This is over and above the $99 Verisign cert)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Jul 19 21:13:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

And the MS site is actually super unclear on this.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Thu Jul 19 21:37:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

(a) COMPANY shall designate a minimum of one (1) and a maximum of
five (5) employee contacts that may submit Drivers to, and receive
Digitally Signed Test Drivers from, MICROSOFT. Drivers must be
submitted via MICROSOFT’s secure on-line process pursuant to
procedures that MICROSOFT may establish and update from time to time
by notice to COMPANY.
...
(d) MICROSOFT will use commercially reasonable efforts to sign all
properly submitted Drivers and return Digitally Signed Test Drivers
to a COMPANY-designated FTP site within two (2) business days after
submission by COMPANY.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 19 22:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

... this Trac ticket uses "hyphenate" instead of "hibernate"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 23:22:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

All right, -> train station

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 23:22:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Maybe I will hate monitors less tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 23:22:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Unlikely, really.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 23:22:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I currently hate them enough to not actually be productive at coding

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Jul 19 23:23:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Oooh! I could go work on config-package-dev

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 20 12:16:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

Oh, I see, re:
http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/07/secure-multiparty-bitcoin-anonymization/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 20 12:17:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: This tastes like 10% real (reconstituted) all-natural beverage. <ezyang>

Oh yeah, I probably should have crossposted the draft here :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 20 12:41:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

i,i
http://www.bordom.net/view/63343/Whats_really_happening_to_Princess_Peach

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Fri Jul 20 12:55:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

couch arrived!!!1111

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 20 13:29:21 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate bugs." "I didn't touch it!" -gdb, lexrj <ismith>

10/10?  For doing something people generally expect college kids to
do?  Nah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 20 13:43:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SWANIBOST (adj.) Complete shagged out after a hard day having income tax explained to you. <ahailes>

yeah, but there was a name

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:20:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for SURGEONS! <geofft>

I have never felt super-excited about learning assembly. I realize
this makes me lame

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:20:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

I can more or less competently read disassembled code, but I've never
really wanted to program in it

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:21:08 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

That's because x86 assembly is something that no human should ever
have to program in for extended periods of time. :/

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:21:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

I kind of wish I had been more competent in grade school and done cool
things with Z80 assembly on graphing calculators or whatnot

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:22:30 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I think the point of the argument (or at least _my point_ when I was
saying that one could say "obj-c is a pussy language and assembly is
actually hardcore") was that knowing or not knowing something doesn't
make you more or less lame.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:23:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

To be honestly I just wanted a language that the guy probably didn't
know

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:23:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

yeah.

I mean. there also is a somewhat valid point that "assembly" is a type
of language, whereas "objective C" is /a/ language.

saying assembly is "a language" is like saying that you can "read
binary"..... <_<

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:23:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I don't really know what is hardcore programming-wise nor do I care. I just
wanted to put him in his place

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:24:04 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

If you need to know $thing for your job and instead of trying to seek
out resources and learn $thing, you just push your work to your
coworkers, then you're pretty damn lame.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:24:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

so it's sort of valid if only for the "oh, I don't know that one
instance of that type of language? well you don't know /any/ of these"
but mreh.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:25:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

Yeah, I agree that languages are terrible metrics (and also that of
them, objC is one of the more terrible...)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:27:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I think I just hate people to be honest

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:27:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

welcome to the club!

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:27:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Maybe I should've said "Do you know how to mill? Or use solidworks?"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:27:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

"Have you ever been withint 10 feet of a lathe?"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:28:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

quit emasculating me :(

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:28:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

:P

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:28:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

honestly, I think just being disdainful without continuing the dick measuring
contest is the correct answer (not that I'm actually good at that)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:29:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Probably but Idk what else to say other than "That comment is stupid"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:29:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

Ugh talking to frustrating people makes me upset

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:30:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: C-x M-c M-butterfly... <eichin>

most 8-bit machine codes are not as hard as
you'd expect - they're just *small*, so there's a big variation
between "making it work at all" and "writing efficient code".  Z80 is
one of the richer 8-bit ones, having block move/copy instructions
instead of 10-instruction loops.  

the hardcore part is the obsessive attention span to *bother* using
them when you could just write python instead :)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:30:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Right, that. I like having the compiler deal with that for me

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:31:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Z80 assembly always pissed me off. Or maybe it was just TI's crappy
docs.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:32:38 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I have to admit I really kinda like 6502 and <=80386 asm.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:33:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

lol my group laughs whenever I write python scripts instead of bash

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:33:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

I think they think python is lolzy

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:34:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

ARM is also mostly reasonable. "and I could even spend today writing
ARM assembly to call objC"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:35:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

python is much more useful than just plain bash. And it can run
anything bash can, so...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:35:05 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a baby dragon is too small to hurt or help you.
 <rnjacobs>

Oh, yeah, arm7 is kinda fun too.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:36:03 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But if you unplug everything, it gets so quiet you hear that high-pitched empty-room hum.  And then the whispers begin. --xkcd <eichin>

I used 6809 early enough to look down on 6502.  (and 6502 is buggy :-)
Z80 is messy, because it's an octal machine (8080) with a hexadecimal
machine glued on to it

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:36:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

65c02, fine ;p

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:37:25 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that there was a time when cursed holy water wasn't water.
 <rnjacobs>

(But I like the stupid composed instructions)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:37:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: we're dining with the red queen tonight and she asked if you were allergic to free range jabberwocky <eichin>

I just remember finding out about it - "huh,
all the branches take the same number of cycles.  How did they get
carry to work?... oops"

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:55:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

ughhh vmnet doesn't compile on kernel 3.2

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:56:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

lolvmnet

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:56:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Really, maybe just lolvmware

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:56:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Really that.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:56:57 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(vmlol? That sounds like a new VMX instruction.)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:57:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

load object from linear address?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:59:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Current yak facing the shears: I want to repro a bug on not-BareMetal
so we can file a ticket with VMware.  (Or, unlikely but easier,
determine it doesn't happen on stock Linux.)

I guess I should do this on my Natty box instead of my Wheezy or
Rawhide one.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:59:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

VMLOL   m64             Peform a guest linear -> host virtual address translation

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 14:59:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for TRAVELING! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:03:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:03:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh, for a lot of things bash is the better choice. Insofaras it takes
noticeably more code to, e.g., write a pipeline in Python than bash.
(If you want dictionaries or arrays or tons of other stuff, Python is
of course a better one.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:05:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'm not @i(mad), I just have a @i(singular vision for the future.) <eichin>

or ANY ERROR HANDLING AT ALL

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:05:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I think we'd get fewer weird bug reports if we stopped selling our software off planet. <eichin>

it's a lot easier to write a *wrong* pipeline in bash, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:05:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hey, set -e.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:05:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

set -e, subshells, and trap basically even give you structed
exceptions!

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:06:06 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I'm not proud... or tired... <eichin>

wrong!  without set -o pipefail (which only just showed up)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:06:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm, there is that.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:07:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

HI GREG

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:07:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jordan Jin Stone <jinstone>

DO YOU LIVE WITH GEOFFT?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:07:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Why, yes I do.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:07:31 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Remember kids, don't drink and operate complex alien spacecraft. <eichin>

yes, there is that... collection of bugs that
got exposed when I first ported our appliance's shell scripts to
python (6 or 7 years ago now?).  So I'm a little vigilant about it.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:08:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Unfortunately I think most of the shell-like code I've seen in Python has
more bugs than that.  Because putting together a command line without
overparsing bugs is such a pain.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:09:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, crap, is #!/bin/bash -e no longer most of what I need to worry
about on the "don't ignore errors" front? *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:09:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

People end up just splicing together strings and letting the shell
interpret them... so it all explodes if you have a space or a quote in
some variable.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:10:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Man, Python devs writing pipelines are *worse* at quoting than shell
devs?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:10:39 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: If circumstances were different, I'd have your home planet obliterated. <eichin>

adehnert: the trick is that bash -e was *never* enough,
set -o pipefail enables catching an entire new class of failures.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:10:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:11:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "you can insist whatever you want - you are the one building the thing" -- N. Vaidya <eichin>

eh, our policy is that you don't get to use
shell-style quoting at all; you use subprocess, and you pass a list.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:11:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"But it used to be most of what I got."

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:11:48 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: useless, but decorative <eichin>

sure.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:13:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

AFAIK that's the best available policy.  So you end up with junk like

  cmd = ['commandname', '--some-option', option_value,
           '--other-option', other_value] + args

right?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:14:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That's mostly reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:14:37 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: if you haven't found compiler bugs before - chances are you didn't this time either <eichin>

yeah.  we had some sugar wrapped around it
(mostly for handling some more obscure pipe-from-the-middle cases) but
eventually dropped it in favor of straight subprocess.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:15:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This is actually one of the few ways I like Ruby better than Python.  It
has an analogue of Perl's qw operator, so you can write something like

  run_command(%W(commandname --option #{option_value}) + args)

and skip all the "', '" mess.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

subprocess makes me miss perl's qw. But yeah, that's what I use. Are the scripts
price is seeing not using it?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:12 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: work it | harder | make it | better | do it | faster | makes us | stronger <eichin>

is that fundamentally any better than
"commandname --option".split() + args  ?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It's got less noise, IMO.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yes.  The #{option_value} will stay one word regardless of its contents.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:52 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons Naturally Speaking, for you are crunchy and taste good with catch up. -pbaranay <ismith>

Is run_command() different from %x[]?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Just like "$value" in the shell.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:16:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Sure, so
  "commandname --option".split() + [value] + args

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:17:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

perl's qw is one of t he reasons I run screaming from perl.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:17:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

In either case, you clearly *can* do it in Python, but the qw or %W
solution reads much more clearly to me.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:17:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

ismith: I'm imagining a helper function, but it doesn't matter.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:18:15 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Numerical Recipes in Intercal <eichin>

just trying to be clear that the semantics are
the same.  certainly I'll grant it has a little less syntax.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:18:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

nelhage: Yeah, you can write it that way too, but it's pretty nasty when
you have e.g. several options with arguments so tht you have to alternate
literals and variables.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:19:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, I am agreeing with you, I was just nitpicking that you were
objecting to the wrong thing :)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:19:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I know you *can* write correct command-invoking code in Python; I've done
it too.  But I have yet to see coworkers do it except at Ksplice.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:20:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Well, at Solano I'm not sure there were actual bugs, but there was
certainly code at risk of bugs.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:23:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And I think overparsing / misquoting / injection bugs are more common
than bugs where a non-final command in a pipe fails and the final one
doesn't, if only because variable substitution appears in nearly every
command and pipes don't.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:26:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: That is so not-good on so many not-good levels... <eichin>

probably (injection bugs are common
*everywhere*, it's just that they've been around longer in bash) but
the pipeline case is always cited as "see, sh has the best syntax for
it" and it's basically impossible to write actually-correct pipelines
with that syntax...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:37:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Yeah, I miss qw.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I do think with effort you could get better Python idioms, just by
writing a better library. I'm not sure how

Class: geofft Instance: foodtrucks
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:39:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

mmm, gazpacho

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:44:26 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: overemployed <eichin>

there have been some interesting attempts with overloaded operators,
and really, maybe just using a variation on sql bound variables would be enough...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:45:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

a variation on bound variables would be interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:46:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I was going to propose

shell_command("some_command --option", q(option), args)

that 
- splits on whitespace, 
- unless you're protected by q()
- splices in lists in place

But I don't like the fact that leaving off q() silently introduces
quoting bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

I'd be happy with
shell_command(qw("some_command --option"), option, *args)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Maybe without the *args.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

and splicing lists in place.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

*args isn't great, because sometimes I want to splice in place

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

as opposed to at the end ? sure.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:53:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But yeah, switching the default does solve my complaint

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:56:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I also am somewhat curious if things get better or worse if you add a
__getattr__ hook that lets you do something like sh.some_command() or
sh.some_command("--option")

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:56:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

and translates that into sh.exec("some_command", "--option")

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:57:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Or do the full thing one of the git modules does?

sh.some_command(option=value) --> exec("some_command", "--option", value)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:58:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Obviously doesn't work for commands with weird syntax, but works
really remarkably well for git.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:59:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I dislike that, because it means you can't do e.g. sh.qemu(net="nic",
net="user")

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 15:59:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Well, you presumably have an escape hatch to the general syntax

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:00:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Or even sh.git("diff", color="never", HEAD)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:00:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

er, "HEAD"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:00:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Like it explicitly encourages you to write that as git.diff("HEAD",
color="never"), which is fine for a wrapper around git, but not as an
interface for arbitrary commands.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:02:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

You know, that would be nicer if it let you do
sh.git.diff(qw("--color=never HEAD"))

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:02:50 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Armoured Fighting Vehicle Retrofit Systems) <eichin>

I played around with the sh.some_command approach *really*
early on, and it didn't really work out, but that may have been
inexperience with the language (and the language being python 2.1 :-)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:02:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Which is still not as nice as merely "git diff --color=never HEAD",
but super-close.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:04:39 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It is a sad reflection that we know better the temperature inside the stars than
inside a soufflé <eichin>

oh right - it was actually for samba stuff, so
things like "net ads --option whatever" we actually *declared* net as
a variable,  and then net.ads(option="whatever") dtrt.  it allowed
better in-language syntax checking, but had too much cognitive
dissonance for the switching back and forth between shell and python

Class: geofft Instance: cult-of-hacker-news
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:04:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

http://swombat.com/2012/7/20/hack-beliefs

Class: geofft Instance: cult-of-hacker-news
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:07:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't resist the temptation to mimic an orange. <ezyang>

"It is not 100% unreasonable, there are some bps of reasonableness in
there..."

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> cmd = ['commandname', '--some-option', option_value,
>          '--other-option', other_value] + args

Everyone still forgets the -- to protect args from future option
parsing.
cmd = ['commandname', '--some-option', option_value,
         '--other-option', other_value, '--'] + args

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:31:28 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Land-Based Air Defence) <eichin>

good point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:46:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Mountain Dew is not helping with the motivation

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:47:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Also I couldn't find a 2-liter at the store, all they had were
1.5-liters? confusing

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:47:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do you guys have a Bloomberg soda-size law or something?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 16:48:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Don't think so.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 20 17:07:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I think I want another computer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 20 17:07:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

i,i ... ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 20 17:08:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Me too. :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 20 17:11:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Or a nap.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 17:57:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Is there a good way to turn a call to BOOST_FOREACH(x, y) into
something that loops from ++y.start() to y.end()?

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:00:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

Do you mean like
for (auto x: my vector){
   do_thing(x);
}

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:01:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

I probably missed the point of the question.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:03:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

I don't think I get to use C++11. :)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:04:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh, does that eeven work in C++11, I thought you had to do
for_each(vector.begin(), vector.end(), functor)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:04:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Also the thing is I'd be turning
BOOST_FOREACH(x, y) { ... }
into
for (y.iterator i = ++y.begin(); i != y.end(); ++y) {
  x = *i;
  ...
}
which is vaguely ugly

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:04:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

But I'll just do that

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:04:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

...are you deliberately skipping the first element?

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:05:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

oww stop prefixing all the things

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:05:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:05:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I guess that was unclear. "How do I do a BOOST_FOREACH where I skip
the first element"

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:06:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What's your container? You can sometimes just + it

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:06:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

er, +1 it

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:06:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Well, I want to keep the first element of the container...

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:07:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

+1'ing an iterator doesn't delete anything

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:07:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

But I can't pass an iterator to BOOST_FOREACH

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:07:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think you want boost::sub_range, though

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:07:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

sub_range(y.begin() + 1, y.end()) seems lame

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:08:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

"Just store the first element somewhere and put it back later."

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:10:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wow, "not allowed to put GPLv3 software on their work hardware" is a
thing?

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:10:57 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

(mix?)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:10:55 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

> oww stop prefixing all the things 
I thought that was recommended practice?

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:11:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I always use foo++ instead of ++foo everywhere. I don't know any C++
people that say it's recommended practice.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:11:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Anders, thanks for the correction.  Which doubles as a reminder that
shell-like programs are hard to get completely right.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:11:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Split Square Thru 3 <kchen>

I have been told the prefixing is better, and given a reference to a
book that I didn't have.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:12:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PILOTS! <geofft>

If you say foo++ on an iterator, it forces a copy of the iterator that
you never end up using

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:12:26 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

Like, postfix is inefficient because it has to store the previous value 
and return it, whereas prefix is just an in-place increment.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:12:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...really? I thought g++ (and others) were smart enough to avoid that.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:13:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

If you say i++ on an integer, it theoretically forces a copy, but any
compiler that is at least as smart as a 6.004 student will optimize
that out. If you say that on a standard iterator on a standard
container, a good compiler will notice and optimize it out

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:13:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Further up: A variation on bound variables could also solve the
splicing-lists-in-the-middle problem.

shell_command("some_command --option ? --other ? ?? -- ??",
              option, other_option, opts, args)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:13:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Only if operator++ can be inlined.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

But I think doing it on an arbitrary container is unlikely to DWYW. So
it's reasonable practice to use preincrement, especially if you're
duck-typing the container and don't know if it's STL/builtin

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:14:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Ooh.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:14:19 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(?? is probably fine; if you really want the concatenation of
two expressions, concatenate them yourself and use ?.)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:14:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I...okay. I still think it's ugly and that's fairly annoying. Like, it
should be obvious that there is no reason to store the side-effect.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:15:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:15:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Or printf-style.  You could call them %w and %l, for 'word' and 'list'.
(And maybe not support any other escapes, except %%.)

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:16:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Well, note that there's no requirement that for an arbitrary object,
pre- and postincrement are even related

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:16:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

So a compiler can't arbitrarily say "the result of this postincrement
is unused, so I'll convert it to a preincrement"

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:16:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> ugly and that's fairly annoying.

Really, is this a surprise for something that C++ makes necessary?

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:16:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

And that's the only thing it can do. It can't go into the
implementation of postincrement and go "By the way, don't bother
making a copy"...

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:17:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for BARISTAS! <geofft>

I guess if you were being overly clever you could run an optimization
pass on the postincrement where you discard the return value, mangle
it differently, and link it from contexts where you discard the return
value.

Class: geofft Instance: boost
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:17:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

But see "overly clever"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:23:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

It’s so dumb that everyone keeps making the same API mistakes where
they first come up with an easy-to-use unsafe API (like "command $foo
$bar"), then a difficult-to-use possibly-safe API (like "command " +
escape($foo) + " " + escape($bar)), then an annoying-to-use safe API
(like ("command ? ?", $foo, $bar)), and everyone just goes and uses
the first thing and pretends they’ll fix it later.

It’s way past time for languages to introduce a generic way to write
easy, safe DSLs that look like "command {$foo} {$bar}" and just work.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:24:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Can you elaborate on what that would look like?  Lisp quasiquoting?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:24:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

bash is stupidly close to what you want.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:24:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

http://www.yesodweb.com/book/shakespearean-templates is the only
example I know of.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:24:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think bash falls pretty squarely in Anders's second category.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:25:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Heh, it does fit that such a thing came out of the Haskell community.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:27:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                          (o_0 <mats_a>

actually incorporating the equivalent of template-strings (e.g.
pythong '...'.format) and system commands as statically-checked DSLs
in Bedd. At least, that was the plan.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:31:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Template strings are wrong because they force me to separate the
template from the data ("command ? ?", $foo, $bar), which is annoying
when you have more than like one piece of data.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:31:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, definitely agree that is annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:32:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What do you think about the qw() approach?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:32:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Which Python sadly lacks, but Ruby borrowed from Perl.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:34:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

qw() doesn’t help at all for DSLs that don’t look like lists of words
(like HTML and SQL), and only helps to a limited degree for DSLs that
do, because you can’t put variables into qw(), at least in Perl.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:34:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right, I'm focusing on command lines -- partly because it's where this
discussion started, but also because it seems like a nice simple example
to get at the ideas here.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:35:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

In Ruby you can definitely put variables in %W.  Somebody told me you can
in Perl too, but I haven't gone back and tried.  So you write
  %W(command --option #{option_arg} --) + args

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:37:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

From what I've read so far on this Shakespearean-language page, and
trying to imagine what it would look like for writing command lines, it
seems like %W(), plus a feature where if you substituted a list of
strings it spliced the list as multiple words, would be a lot like what
they're doing.  Do you see things missing there?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:37:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(And that sounds pretty appealing, too.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:58:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A fuller expression of these ideas could support a broader class of shell
programming -- like appropriate types so that you could e.g. write a
command like
   ssh "$host" -- 'command '"'$arg'"
only actually correct if $arg contains not only spaces but quotes.
(Which I don't know how to do in bash short of sed.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:58:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for MARKETERS! <geofft>

cat /mit/scripts/bin/scripts-ssh

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:59:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Cute.  I tried to do it with the ${PARAMETER//PATTERN/STRING} expansion,
but unfortunately bash's parsing of that expansion itself is undocumented
and appears to be disgustingly inconsistent.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 18:59:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Who wrote that?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

I'm going to give you three guesses, and guess 1 better be Anders

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:01:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is that right?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:01:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

r463 | andersk | 2007-10-13 19:18:22 -0700 (Sat, 13 Oct 2007) | 1 line

ssh sucks.

r464 | andersk | 2007-10-13 19:55:00 -0700 (Sat, 13 Oct 2007) | 2 lines

As it turns out, bash sucks too.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:01:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

svn blame says Anders.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:04:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)    ((0<~~--  *HADOUKEN* >(o_0 <mats_a>

(for the record, ==andersk, separating template from data is very
annoying, was trying not to imply that; I personally do '{example}
{example2}'.format(**locals()) when I must in python, on trusted
strings of course; still ugly)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:04:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, Anders was certainly my first guess.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:05:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I appreciate the two commits...

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:12:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Awesome, geofft@vmware.com still exists, for some value of exists

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:12:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

I can log into the public website (to download free things like
Player)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:15:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is the public website at all synced with the internal stuff? I'd have
guessed it doesn't treat @vmware.com any different from, like,
@gmail.com.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Jul 20 19:16:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Yeah, that's my assumption too

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:02:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for TRAVELING! <geofft>

christy / whaaa? / christy  16:58  (Christy Swartz)
    Strippers can make $500+ per night? Yikes. (I wonder what good pole
    dancers make, assuming they're any good. Yes, there is a difference.)
brogan / n-c / brogan  16:59  (CRAB BATTLE)
    NO, BROGAN, THIS IS A BAD PLAN.
christy / whaaa? / christy  17:00  (Christy Swartz)
    Almost worth switching professions. ;)

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:02:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

++

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:03:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Of course, you can still work in software after you turn 40.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:14:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Man, writing x86 assembly is not that bad.  It's just cool to hate on x86.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:17:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"perhaps bonghits will fix your motivation"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:18:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

does geoff have like, too much motivation or something?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:20:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:21:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

hartmans wandered onto #debian-devel and asked a question and got
directed at #debian because it was a support question

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:21:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

There was some embarrassment when it was pointed out that Sam is a DD

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:21:58 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: You want to regain strength?  Two levels ahead is a guesthouse!
 <rnjacobs>

Asm was a lot more fun when there were no abstractions.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:22:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

For him, or the redirector?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:22:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

For the redirector

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:24:55 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Ian doesn't need drugs, he's weird enough as it is. -danjared <ismith>

I think Ihad something like that on #apache, except it was me
bitching about how some part of the docs for basic auth were wrong. 
(They were.) And someone popped up and said "yeah, if you rewrite
that rant, I will replace what I wrote 10 years ago with it".

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:25:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

What a patchy process.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:26:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Anyway, you guys should hold more BSPs

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:26:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for AIRLINES! <geofft>

(the redirector in question is paultag, who's shown up at one or two)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:26:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Remember that RISC is designed to make writing assembly by hand
*harder*.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:27:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oops.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Now, *reading* x86 assembly is a different matter, because the
person/compiler writing it is free to use whatever weird instructions
they like.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:29:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But if you're writing it yourself, you are free to restrict yourself
to any nice RISC-like subset you like.  And if you don't feel like
doing that, you have more flexibility as to addressing modes and such.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:30:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And no branch delay slots.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:30:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I assume you are using a reasonable 32- or 64-bit OS with vestigial
segmentation.  Real-mode segmented x86 is quite a different matter.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:30:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, writing application x86 code is actually quite sane.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:31:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Dealing with some of the kernel-mode setup and such, or dealing with
real mode, are a different story.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:31:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But especially on amd64, it's really pretty reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:36:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I found real-mode segmented x86 asm to not really be a problem...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:36:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Although I never dealt with >64kiB arrays.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:37:38 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: This appears to be a statue of Perseus.
 <rnjacobs>

It's also what I started with, so my perspective is no doubt skewed.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:38:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Note that even such relatively small numbers as 320*240 are greater
than 4k, so "not dealing with 64k arrays" is a pretty strong
constraint.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:41:02 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Sure, so most demos switched to protected mode for that reason.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:49:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And I totally agree that the dick measuring contest with regard to
knowing "hardcore" languages is stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:50:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's not necessary anymore to know machine code in order to make
useful software.  That's a *good* thing.  That's progress.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:51:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I disagree not knowing machine code is a good thing. You don't have to
be fluent in it, but you better the hell have an appreciation for what
your compiler/interpretter/jit/pony is doing.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:52:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:52:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not *needing* to know machine code is a good thing, which is different.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:52:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I don't claim that ignorance by any individual is a *good* thing,
just that it's not very bad anymore.)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:52:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(Obviously given infinite resources we would all like to know
everything)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:53:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

In my experience, people that don't know what the machine is doing at
the instruction level write inefficient code.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:54:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Sure, but in a majority of cases it doesn't really matter if your code
is inefficient.  Computers are cheap.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:54:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

:|

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:54:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I am pretty happy with the current situation, where a large number of
people can write useful high-level code, and a smaller number of
people can optimize the parts which really need optimization.

I think that works out well for both groups of people.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:55:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That requires the first group producing decent code to begin with.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:55:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

We are a privileged community where even the "bad" members (we=MIT,
here) are still significantly better than "good" members elsewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:59:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't think you can blame bad programmers on a lack of appreciation
of implementation details

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:59:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Only if you narrow "bad" to "inefficient", which is far from the worst
problem that most software has.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 20:59:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I've taught bad programmers appreciation, and then they became better
programmers. But I'm also 6-2 and biased.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:00:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think failing to have basic knowledge of algorithms is a bigger
problem than failing to have basic knowledge of computer
architecture.  And ==price also.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:00:32 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The theory is that if we keep telling Halftime he's writing it, he'll actually write it. -xavid <ismith>

==htns; I think it's possible to teach useful tihngs about efficiency
and how the machine works without teaching much in the way of
assembler.  But my sole exposure to that is 004, so I may lack
perspective.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:00:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Assembly language is not at all close to "how the machine really
works" anymore, either.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:01:00 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I think I just got hazed by the Boston Herald. -phurst <ismith>

I meant to == htns' earlier zephyr, but the 21:00 is ==able as well.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:01:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I didn't like 6.046. I agree that basic algorithms knowledge is
crucial, but sadly most people end up throwing it out the window and
are working in a cubicle on an enterprise java application that has
100k sloc and barely works anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:02:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

IMO knowing the techniques is great, but you also have to know when to
violate abstractions.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:02:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That dosen't seem particularly sad to me.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:03:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:03:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I guesss I take the big picture view where, hey, these people are
making something which is evidently at least a little bit useful, and
are paid well for it, and get to work inside in an air conditioned
room rather than (say) shoveling coal in a mine and dying of
blacklung.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:04:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

If you look at it in that context, you can make anything look good.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:04:21 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

It is not a good thing to move everyone into information services technologists.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:07:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

My point is that you already have a pool of developers working on
$project. It is much better for $project to be well-written by people
striving to do better rather than status quo. Bad programmers that
are unmotivated to get better will produce more status quo, more
code, and bog the system down more. If you get people excited about
what they're working on and give them appreciation, they'll do better.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:07:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

There are plenty of ways to get excited about a project -- especially
a big project -- that don't involve figuring out what it compiles to.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:08:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

knowing the ==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:08:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

achernya: You're saying it's better to have good programmers than bad?
 Excited programmers than indifferent?  Obiously these things are
true.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:09:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Clearly. My point is that I've had more success motivating people by
showing them how intricate the design of a computer is, and to make
concrete the abstract notion of code.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:10:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Okay, fair enough.  That's very different from the argument for
"knowing machine code" which you initially advanced.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:11:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The original premise was I showed a bunch of people that a compiled
for loop disassembled to, and once they saw how much work a "simple"
bit of code was they appreciated it more, and worked to be more clever
about it.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:11:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And machine code is just another abstraction -- do you also go into
detail on the implementation of a superscalar out-of-order
branch-predicting processor?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:11:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I would love to. I don't think they have to know more than "sometimes,
the processor will do things out of order if it's faster."

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:12:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

They don't *have* to know any of it.  That's my point.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:12:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

> once they saw how much work a "simple" bit of code was they
> appreciated it more, and worked to be more clever about it

I feel like the more I consciously think about such things, the worse
code I write...

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:12:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If knowing machine code helps with "motivation", then fine.  It's not
necessary in order to produce working software.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:12:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

See entirely-too-long discussion above about writing a cleaner for
loop.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:13:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It seems like many other irrelevant things should produce equal
amounts of motivation.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:13:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Really I should just write the stupid thing and get on with designing
things that are too big for me to understand the machine code
representation of

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:22:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I saw a jobs ad on the T: "Is your code good enough to fix
healthcare?".

This is really stupid.  The quality of code is not the deciding factor
in healthcare or any other industry.  But people think the way to
market to programmers is to make everything a dick-measuring contest.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:26:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, man, you want to see absurd recruiting ads for programmers, you need
to come to San Francisco.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:26:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurafire/6642312081/

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:26:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17264356@N00/7346749370

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:26:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

zephyr people react to that so strongly....

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:26:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, I saw that ad many times when I was in SF (and visiting several
friends who work at Kixeye)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:27:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ouch, too close to home?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:27:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What... do those friends think about the ad?

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:27:28 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(the two ads)

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:27:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I... what.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:27:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://geekfeminism.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/mymom.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:28:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

"Post ending in 88 decides what my startup's recruiting ads will say"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:28:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I don't get it/why it's a big deal.  "maybe i've been here too long"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:29:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

http://openblocks.plathome.com/products/obs_a/index.html

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:31:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

htns: Yeah, that's a good response to that ad.

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:41:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

price: I don't know what they think, other than "Our CEO does not
understand the difference between Courage Wolf and Insanity Wolf"

Class: geofft Instance: jinstone.d
Time: Fri Jul 20 21:43:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(sleeping, ttyl all)

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 22:59:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Taco Bell's drivethru does not detect bicycles

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 22:59:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

also they do not sell bottled drinks

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 22:59:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

It's like the universe is conspiring against me to make me eat less
Taco Bell.

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 23:00:43 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: If you can't tell the difference between a deli and a pharmacy, you stay the fuck away from my sandwiches. -w-m <ismith>

GOOD UNIVERSE

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 23:02:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I recommend El Pollo Loco, but I don't know if they have it that far
north.

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell.ttants
Time: Fri Jul 20 23:04:38 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Acronyms die hard, man. -pbaranay <ismith>

El Pollo Loco
Los Pollos Hermanos

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 23:10:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I mean, I live in the Mission, I'm good on reasonable Mexican food

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Fri Jul 20 23:10:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

I just want unreasonable Mexican food.

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Sat Jul 21 01:08:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Dixie Sashay <kchen>

In Milwaukee, someone else and I tried to go through a drive-thru on
foot, because only the drive-thru was open.  The thing didn't detect
us, so we just waited in line between cars.  When we got to the
window, they said they weren't allowed to serve people on foot.  (No
idea whether bikes would have been ok.)

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Sat Jul 21 01:09:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

I've gone to the McDonald's near(ish) Lechmere once or twice on bike,
I think

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Sat Jul 21 01:09:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for AIRLINES! <geofft>

But I expected it to be unlikely to work.

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Sat Jul 21 01:17:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I suspect that their restriction was not really legit.

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell
Time: Sat Jul 21 01:20:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Leads Start Wheel The Ocean The "K" <kchen>

hmm, Wikipedia actually has a (small) section of an article on this,
although it doesn't say all that much:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through#Non-car_usage

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:41:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

I fixed price's bug by ... telling wpa_supplicant to debug log more

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:41:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

(I'm not sure I actually fixed it)

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:42:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

Huh. What is the difference between fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1.service and
fi.epitest.hostap.WPASupplicant.service?

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

        * dbus: major design changes in the new D-Bus API
          (fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1)

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

        * added new DBus interface (fi.w1.wpa_supplicant1)

Class: geofft Instance: NetworkManager
Time: Sat Jul 21 02:47:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Oh, and live.gnome.org does imply it's a new D-Bus API, sure. Less
confused now

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul 21 03:15:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

This is brilliant
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q692t/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul 21 03:16:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: He's a well known dodger, and I'm a dodger too <kdrinkwa>

*snrk*

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Jul 21 03:20:46 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: passing out is a security vulnerability -afarrell <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: taco-bell.ttants
Time: Sat Jul 21 05:16:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

[stark] ismith++

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sat Jul 21 18:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

root@dr-wily:~# ls -l /tmp/krb5cc-mosh* | wc -l
2333

Class: geofft Instance: :-(
Time: Sat Jul 21 18:39:36 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

"So I guess mosh is definitely a thing now."

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Jul 21 18:40:07 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

> So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for LAUNDROMATS!

I... I... I don't even know...

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Jul 21 18:40:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Well, you have to do *something* while your laundry's in.

This... could be big.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Jul 21 18:40:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Laundry day
See you there
Underthings
Tumbling
Want to say
Love your hair
Here I go
Mumbling

Class: geofft Instance: zynga
Time: Sun Jul 22 20:09:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for AIRLINES! <geofft>

... their stock is doing _that_ badly? I did not realize

Class: geofft Instance: apartmentq
Time: Mon Jul 23 13:33:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"I could buy the .local TLD!"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 23 13:37:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

-> work

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 23 13:38:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Fell asleep around ~11 because of the headache. Woke up somehow around
7:30, couldn't actually get out of bed, fell back asleep until 9

Class: geofft Instance: sleep
Time: Mon Jul 23 13:38:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

... or 6:30?

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 15:59:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

From: Virgin America <info@fly.virginamerica.com>
Subject: Think of us as a friend with benefits. Elevate® benefits.

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:00:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Also i,i if you want me to think of you as a friend with benefits, why
are you calling yourself "Virgin"

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:01:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Gliese 581 c <eichin>

this is the airline that had the founder make a
"mile high club" joke on the intro video to the in-flight
entertainment system :)

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:02:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

See also every SPirit pormo.

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:03:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"Can't tell if typo for 'promo' or 'porno'"

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:04:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Let's see, Feb. 2011: "Big Package Sale - Vacation Packages Starting
at $326! ... Why spend two months salary for such a tiny gift when you
can slip her a BIG package that she'll remember forever! That's right,
Spirit's got big vacation packages starting from just $326* per
person."

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:04:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Also "Go South for VD - Fares from $9 each way! ... Get cheeky and
head south for VD ~ er, ahem... Valentines Day! We've got sticky sweet
fares starting from just $9* each way, based on roundtrip purchase!"

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:04:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

http://consumerist.com/2007/12/spirit-airlines-holds-milf-sale-denies-having-seen-american-pie.html

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:05:38 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I feel so uncool flying JetBlue, whose promos largely seem to revolve
around such concepts as "vacation is fun" and "we're not assholes"

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:05:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Also the "Big Package Sale",
http://www.spirit.com/content/images/email/promo/main_promo-Pack.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:06:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

Also the Dec. 2010 "Mother of all Spirit Sales", "Get yourself some
MOASS and check out the Mother of All Spirit Sales!"

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:08:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Oof. June 2010: "Check Out The Oil On Our Beaches", 
http://www.spirit.com/content/images/email/promo/main_promo-oil.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:09:30 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't Spirit's motto "we don't give a fuck" about virtually
everything?

Class: geofft Instance: !zipcar
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:09:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

Feb. 2010: "We have Many Unbelievably Fantastic Fares to Diving
Destinations and other places too!" (Subject: MUFF to Diving
Destinations From $9* Each Way!)

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:48:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for COUGARS! <geofft>

So there is a Kidz Bop cover of "Glad You Came".

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:49:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

There's one of those for every inappropriate song...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Mon Jul 23 16:51:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

But you can't appropriate it without changing the word "came"... and
they don't

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 17:12:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for MARKETERS! <geofft>

One of these days I will actually know what's in our codebase

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 17:12:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

But apparently not today.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-settings-daemon
Time: Mon Jul 23 17:51:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

/* Epic fail:  there (probably) was a backup configuration, but
 * we could not apply it.  The only thing we can do is delete
 * the backup configuration.  Let's hope that the user doesn't
 * get left with an unusable display...
 */

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-settings-daemon
Time: Mon Jul 23 17:52:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for BARISTAS! <geofft>

I'm not sure how I feel about my software saying "epic fail"

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 23 18:04:25 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Boo, linguists are supposed to know everything! -pbaranay <ismith>

> appropriate it

I don't think that word works the way you think.

Class: geofft Instance: ....d
Time: Mon Jul 23 18:06:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Aw.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:22:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

blugh. I think I want to take a crayon to our source tree and start
drawing lines that explain what code calls what

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:22:35 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You mean we will *lyse* and then *fractionate* the radios. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

Aren't there tools to do that for you?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:22:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I did that! Sort of. I didn't use crayons...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:23:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

ismith: They probably don't work with the sort of mess our codebase is
in

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:29:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Aren't messy codebases exactly the sort of thing those tools are for?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:30:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I wouldn't be surprised if he's got masses of shell scripts and
postinst scripts and such that call into native binaries and vice versa

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:32:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I'm not so worried about those as things like platform-specific
conditional defines, shelling out to programs, D-Bus interfaces,
automagic D-Bus interfaces, LD_PRELOADs, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 23 19:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

If it were a messy codebase that obeyed one calling convention, then
I'd expect it to work, but there are so many ways that a function
could ultimately be called (which makes answering "all right, does
anyone _use_ this code" hard)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 23 20:18:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

argh, not feeling well again -> home early and seeing what useful
things I can do there

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 23 20:24:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

AW CRAP IT IS VERY SUNNY OUTSIDE

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:35:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

It occurs to me that eliminating tips and requiring employers to pay
minimum wage directly has the effect of helping the ~middle class by
giving more income stability and reducing the number of people not
actually making minimum wage, while hurting ~lower classes by raising
prices on people who couldn't afford to tip and are now more or less
required to.

What's the right answer here?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:37:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How much class-based variety in tipping is there?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:37:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: His song he gave to the summer days, singing "where the dance leads, I'll follow" <kdrinkwa>

I'd argue that it benefits the lower classes because they're the ones
working the shitty service industry jobs...

How many people who can't afford to tip choose to eat out and not tip,
vs. eating at a place where there isn't an expectation of tipping, or
cooking for themselves?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:37:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, "How much do poor people attend restaurants?"

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:38:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I have heard claims that richer people are often actually
shittier tippers, but I have no first-hand experience here...

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:38:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And all the harm that e'er I've done, alas it was to none but me <kdrinkwa>

==adehnert

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:39:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Split Counter Rotate 1/4 <kchen>

Hmm, places where you tip are also more likely to be more expensive,
making it less likely a lower-income person would eat there.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:39:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: He stood, and he stood, and it's well that he stood <kdrinkwa>

really, the argument that it hurts lower classes strikes me as a tiny
nitpicky point of food policy, whereas the argument that it helps
lower classes strikes me as a major point of people's primary income.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:39:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Yeah, I don't know what the data looks like here, and whether it even
exists. I would assume that the number of people who can afford to pay
a 15% tip and don't tip at least 15% is low.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:40:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Maybe make that at least 5 or 10%.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:40:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

I'm uninterested in how much _more_ than 15% the upper classes tip,
since those are (I'd think) unsustainable

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:41:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: This goodly gift at your command <kdrinkwa>

...in the absence of data on tipping vs. socioeconomic justice, we
could argue all night about whether "rich people have the money to tip
and poor people don't" or "rich people are entitled dicks and poor
people understand" is the stronger effect. I certainly hear many more
anecdotes to support the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:41:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

There's strong evidence that rich people give less to charity than
poor people, but it's nto apparent this maps to tips.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:41:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Shoot and be damned then, you rogue, said he <kdrinkwa>

er, s/justice/status/. Derp

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:41:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I think the argument that people who can't afford to tip don't eat at
establishments that expect tipping is probably convincing, although
there's also things like pizza delivery

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:42:56 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I feel like the era of credit cards has ruined deelivery tipping.
It's even more of a sham than it used to be.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:43:45 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: O R'LYEH? IA R'LYEH -cesium <ismith>

Because the money just goes into a single pool that then gets divided
up instead of going directly to the specific delivery person?
(Presumably they don't track to that level of detail.)

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:44:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hocus Pocus, Centers 1 & 1/2 <kchen>

Because you determine the tip amount before the delivery occurs?  If
I recall correctly, Domino's actually has you determine the tip
amount when they give you a receipt to sign, although most other
places don't.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:44:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yes, becuase you determine the tip amount prior, in most cases.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:44:17 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I have a legit reason to ask and it doesn't involve assassination, fwiw. -kbyers <ismith>

Oh, that too.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:44:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Silly Commit Messages Only" - kcr <pbaranay>

> strong evidence that rich people give less to charity than poor
> people

Wait, really? John, could you provide a source?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:44:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for PETS! <geofft>

On the technocratic-utopia front, would society be better or worse if
your credit card knew how much money you made and automatically
defaulted to giving an appropriate tip based on how much you can
afford?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:45:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I mean, for me, the whole point of a tip is that it gives me flexibility.
Though I feel bad about using it w/o justifying it, and most people think
it's rude to write notes to the waitstaff telling them why they sucked.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:46:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for WOMBATS! <geofft>

I've never really been happy with tipping as a way of providing
feedback. If they're getting less than minimum wage without tips,
you're obligated to give a tip and a good tip anyway, so you can't
effectively communicate bad service. And the occasions of
_noteworthily_ good service are rare, and better served by e.g. a
comment card to the manager.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:46:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Paul, see http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22FOB-wwln-t.html
etc. ("The Way We Live Now
The Charitable-Giving Divide") which notes, for instance, that:
"In 2001, Independent Sector, a nonprofit organization focused on
charitable giving, found that households earning less than $25,000 a
year gave away an average of 4.2 percent of their incomes; those with
earnings of more than $75,000 gave away 2.7 percent."

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:46:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

I think it's the opposite of rude. I would much prefer a living wage
and a pile of notes, than neither.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:47:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Sorry, you write notes to your waitstaff, Geoffrey?
As for noteworthy good service, it's easy enough to both tip them up
and also tell them to their face how awesome they were, if it's not already
obvious.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:48:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

No, I've never had noteworthily good service, and I've never had
service so bad as to merit either underpaying a person or put their
job in danger.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:48:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

But note that I said comment card to the manager, not note to the
waitstaff

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:49:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

To me, "underpaying" would be like negative tips.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:49:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

When your waitstaff is making less than minimum wage and is only
beating it with tips, then any tip under 20% is effectively negative.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:50:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, talk about "effectively" all you want, but the menu price is
the reasonable baseline, I think. Otherwise it is semantic sophistry.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

(A comment card to the manager is capable of e.g. pushing someone over
the line when being considered for a raise or promotion. A note to
them is only capable of making them feel good about themselves)

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:50:37 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Most restaurants do not offer comment cards. You can certainly write a letter
but that's a bit different.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

The entire point here is that, given the ability of restaurants not to
pay minimum wage if expected tips beat minimum wage, the menu price
should be read as 20% higher than what's printed.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

(See also required gratuities.)

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Also, I am skeptical whether waitstaff have any significant raise
opportunities. and promotion opportunities are...lmited.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

So there is, already, a huge game of semantic sophistry. The question
we started this discussion with was, would eliminating that game and
adding 20% to every listed menu price be a good thing for the world or
a bad thing?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

That's the point? Sorry I missed that. "Good luck with that."

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:50 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Try to scope it to the country. There's wide variation on this over the
world already.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:51:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for THE ARMY! <geofft>

There's also "not laid off" opportunities, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:52:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Sure. I'm fine even scoping it to my city.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:52:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

(I'm using "the world" in a vague utilitarian sense, not as an actual
domain for this change.) Would my city be more socially just if tips
were illegal and gratuities turned into increases on the menu price?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:55:48 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Yes Ian, I have a fetish for the T. That's why I live off campus. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

You could ask at The Plant Cafe in SF.  I don't know if they outright
ask people not to tip, but I think they mention that they set wages
high enough that servers don't depend on tips?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:57:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

*looks* "but that's so far"

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 01:57:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

So, umm, wouldn't you expect it to be equally just?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:01:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Captain, haul me up, I am drifting with the tide, I am drowning in the lowlands <kdrinkwa>

Even ignoring the rate of people giving low tips because they're just
dicks, I'd argue that making servers play the "tip game" sucks for
them. Their income can be materially affected by things not under
their control. And at that level of customer service, I feel like
tying such a large chunk of payment to customer satisfaction is...
disproportionate.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:03:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

So, presumably if we're really interested, the thing to do is to look
at non-tip economies, like we find in Europe.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:06:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I would expect an increase in justice for the following reasons:
- Not everyone does in fact tip 20%, so this increases some tips
- I don't think noticeably many people tip noticeably more than 20%,
  so I expect the revenue gain (of the restaurant-plus-employees set)
  to be positive
- Dissatisfaction with people who don't tip 20% because they don't
  realize they're expected to, as opposed to because they dislike
  something about the service, disappears
- Price comparisons on food are fairer, i.e., the market is fairer
- Restaurants may no longer pay waitstaff less than minimum wage
- Wage comparisons by waitstaff are fairer, i.e., the market is fairer
- Restaurants may find that it is now cost-effective for them to
  pay waitstaff _more_ than minimum wage, if the average tip
  increases, which is obviously good for waitstaff
- Alternatively, restaurants may find that it is now cost-effective
  for them to lower prices, because it turns out that the people
  tipping the expected amount were subsidizing those who didn't,
  which is more just to consumers

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:07:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

I'm not sure why I would expect a decrease in justice. The only thing
I could come up with is
- People who could only afford to consume from a place that expected
  tips by giving zero tip are now less able to afford to consume from
  that place

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:07:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I thought the societally accepted target tip was ~15--20%?

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:08:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for COUGARS! <geofft>

There's also
- People who could only afford to consume from a place that has
  multiple modes of operation, some of which involve being tipped
  and some of which don't (e.g., takeout from a restaurant that
  also has dine-in customers), find that they are no longer being
  subsidized by the customers who tipped, because now everyone
  pays the same price whether or not they're getting waitstaff service

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:08:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

"I think it's good to claim it's 20%, whether or not it is"

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:09:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

And I've heard anecdotes on the Internet that certain waitstaff
consider receiving a 15% tip to be a marker of bad performance, i.e.,
"I couldn't tip you reasonably so I gave you the smallest
socially-acceptable tip"

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:09:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Hm, there's also
- At a place with multiple modes of operation, one that previously
  involved tips, more people may start using that mode because they
  don't have to pay extra for the service

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:16:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

One way to work around that is mandatory gratuities, which I think
don't have the problem of being highly variable.

Class: geofft Instance: social-justice
Time: Tue Jul 24 02:17:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Anyway, I think part of the attraction here is that "make tips
illegal, make paying less than minimum wage because of tips illegal,
expect everyone affected to raise prices 20% or to add a mandatory
grautity for transactions involving service" seems like a very simple
thing to do with a large benefit (and no huge downside). Are there
other simpler and either less controversial or more clearly beneficial
things to do?

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jul 24 13:07:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

But you didn't have to cut me off
Take your website and your github down like there was nothing
I don't even need your code
Now you're just some repo that I used to clone

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Jul 24 13:08:38 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Randomites are like Eskimos, but for hugs instead of snow. -peairs <ismith>

s/Take your website and your github down/Take down your website and
your github/?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:27:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I wonder if work can create me a separate inbox / mail alias for
random mailing lists.

I suspect I can also do this through server-side filtering, but that
requires both effort and Outlook IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:28:16 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Outlook Web can probably do that, and doesn't suck.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:29:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I think that requires IE, and once I'm on Windows I might as well
install Outlook

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:29:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I use Outlook Web from a mac all the time, it works great
in Chrome.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:29:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It's kind of crappy in Firefox, I'm not sure why.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:30:33 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Forgetting everything you knew about FORTRAN is not a bug. -broder <ismith>

I don't know about "works great", I find it an annoying client, but it
works as designed.  (Mac, Chrome.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 14:31:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

You need a newer server version to get non-Lite OWA in things other
than IE

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:02:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

When I grow up, I want to work at a food truck

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:05:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Um?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:05:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

It sounds fun, and useful to society

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:06:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

This is about as serious as wanting to go to law school

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:06:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

The Clover guy got two degrees from MIT!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:07:21 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

I'm still waiting for Geofft University...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:08:57 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: "I hate bugs." "I didn't touch it!" -gdb, lexrj <ismith>

i,i Profft

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:09:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

In seriousness, I wonder if I want to work another programming job
before doing something else with my life

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:10:58 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

Become an EE!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:12:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

I was going more for being a lawyer or musician or schoolteacher...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:12:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I feel EE is basically the same type of work

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:43:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft, you don't want to be a lawyer.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:44:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

But they (can) do so much good for the world!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:44:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

You could start a not-software company...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:47:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

My boss sent this out to our group's mailing list:
http://ldpreload.com/p/dosequis1.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:48:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"When did you start working for reddit?"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:54:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hippies are a dime a dozen. Literally. Drop a dimebag, get a dozen <blehnert>

pong

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 15:54:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hippies are a dime a dozen. Literally. Drop a dimebag, get a dozen <blehnert>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 16:55:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for TWINKIES! <geofft>

ugh there are some Important People in a room with an Excel sheet on
the projector talking about i18n/l10ing our product

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 16:55:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Which we actually have to do now that we have nontrivial sales in
other countries

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 16:55:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

This sounds like the opposite of fun.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 16:56:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I'm so sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Jul 24 17:44:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Waseem Daher <wdaher>

You could use your existing talents (software) in the service of a
cause you support, as a programmer.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:09:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

salmon-of-wisdom:/tmp/filesystem/var/lib/dpkg gthomas$ mount | wc -l
40

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:09:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, it's 26 on my desktop, 40's not all that much more

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:10:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Only need a couple of chroots all mounting dev,proc,sysfs, maybe
more, to get there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:10:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

I'm also cheating a bit because there are two active schroots. (_Why_
there are two active schroots I'm not sure)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:10:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I guess maybe I'm also cheating by having 9 cgroups mounted.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:11:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But I didn't do that by hand, it was some package that I am quite
certain I totally had a good reason to install.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Coordinate <kchen>

kechen@eevee:~$ mount | wc -l
715

This might be a bug in the way I deal with schroots, since they seem
to remain active after I exit the resulting shell.  But I haven't
cared enough to investigate.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:12:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

schroot --kill-with-fire I mean --all-sessions -e

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:12:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

kchen: Debathena #493

Class: geofft Instance: work Opcode: auto
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:12:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/ticket/493 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debathena ticket 493: /proc/mounts! It's over sixty-five thousand!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ferris Wheel <kchen>

ah, thanks, now down to 19.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:23:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

/trac/wiki/TicketSubjectsWeActuallyUsed

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:32:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Argh! These pants that I bought like a month ago have a tear

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:33:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

suck :( where are they from?

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:33:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I think it is very fixable, though (the seam right above the knee, not
like, a random hole somewhere)

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:33:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

These are the jeans I bought at Old Navy a bit ago

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:42:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Mistakes, partial list: "I know, I'll get off at the 22nd St. station
and take a shortcut home by biking over Potrero Hill"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:43:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

I think I ended up walking my bike both up the hill because I
couldn't move forward otherwise, and down the hill because I couldn't
stop moving forward otherwise

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 18:45:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Also, still can't believe I fell forward into the Vassar/Main
intersection (because of icy roads) and didn't get injured at all

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:18:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Woo, 0.1 release of the userspace checkpoint/restore stuff, that works
with a (mostly) stock kernel:
http://openvz.livejournal.com/42414.html

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:21:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This looks so amazing that I think I really don't know how I could put
it to use.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:21:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

... what?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:23:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I've always wanted checkpoint/restore to work, so I could move
longrunning jobs to better hardware.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:27:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Meaning they run so long that better hardware comes out while they're
running?  Or you start them, then realize they're bigger than you
thought, and want to give more hardware to them (which you have lying
around but hadn't initially allocated to them.)

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:29:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The latter. When I did HPC stuff (usually BLASTing DNA sequences) I
used to make the mistake of running it on my laptop, and then being
sad at myself for not being able to move the progress to my cluster
machines.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:33:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm, could this be used to do time-travel debugging on steroids?  Instead
of just forking the process to snapshot it, you checkpoint it.  Then you
don't get messed up if e.g. the main process read forward in its file
descriptors and changed the state.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:33:55 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, I mean, people do use gcore for that...

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:33:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

I think that's one of the use cases, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:34:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Innteresting.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:36:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Sukadev-Bhattiprolu-Plumbers.pdf

Why Checkpoint/Restart ?
* Reduced application downtime: checkpoint, reboot, restart
* Application mobility
* User-session mobility
* Migrate application to another server before system upgrade
* Improve system utilization
* Faster error recovery with periodic checkpoints
* Slow-start applications
* Debug – start from last checkpoint
* General time-travel
* Other use-cases ?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-cr
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:36:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Although that's not CRIU.

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Tue Jul 24 19:50:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

this is the best code

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia.q
Time: Tue Jul 24 20:42:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

"Gelatinous cubes, being mindless, are always neutral.[citation
needed]"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:00:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Has anyone started porting SICP to JavaScript?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:02:17 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

One of my coworkers made an interesting comment today--basically, that
every language that has tried to differentiate itself from Scheme by
changing the semantics to be different than Scheme's has turned out to
be a total disaster.  Examples he provided included JavaScript and
Erlang, though there were others.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:03:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

Lots of hits for [SICP javascript], yeah. Various degrees of love for
lambdas between, e.g.
http://michaux.ca/articles/sicp-classes-for-javascript versus
http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/cus/pl/sicp_javascript_03.html 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:04:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vintage 1986 Pinot Noir. <ezyang>

...huh?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:04:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a spellbook of advanced differential equations. <ezyang>

Wait, I don't see why the claim "try to differentiate itself from Scheme"
is true for the majority of languages.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:05:51 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Er, try to differentiate its semantics from Scheme's semantics.

Put another way, languages whose semantics have excessively deviated
from Scheme's tend to not work so great.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:07:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of friendship. <ezyang>

Your statements imply motivation: "we changed the semantics because we
wanted to be different", as opposed to what I think you mean now, if the
semantics are different, they're not great.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:07:37 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

It's not clear to me what my coworker meant.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:07:42 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Er, which of those two.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:08:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: This tastes like 10% real (reconstituted) all-natural beverage. <ezyang>

If you argue the former, I will vehemently disagree.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:08:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vintage 1986 Pinot Noir. <ezyang>

I do think it is a shame that most languages get lexical scoping wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:08:58 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

Yeah, I would argue the second, but not the first.  I'll have to ask
at work tomorrow exactly what was meant.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:10:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vintage 1986 Pinot Noir. <ezyang>

But, regardless, it's not clear what "Scheme's semantics" refers to.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:20:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

lol support

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:20:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> most languages get lexical scoping wrong.

What do you mean by that?  In 2012, I think the state of lexical scoping
in widely-used languages is pretty good.  Even in 2002 it was pretty
good, though not in 1992.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:21:46 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

bbaren: Where are you working?  Does your coworker get to work in
Scheme, or what language were you commiserating over?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:22:31 2012 Host: BUZZWORD-BINGO.MIT.EDU
From: My god--it's full of `car's! <bbaren>

I'm at Jane Street, but our discussion wasn't so much related to OCaml
as to other languages we've {had,gotten} to program in.  Originally, I
believe the language of discussion was R.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:27:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I'm surprised there's no disambiguation tag on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apply

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:28:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I see.  The comment does sound amusingly Scheme-centric -- why should a
language's semantics be defined by comparison with Scheme's?  The people
who made them were choosing the semantics they thought made sense,
sometimes thinking hard about a given point and sometimes just falling
into it, but not generally choosing between "follow Scheme" and "deviate
from Scheme".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:32:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

adehnert / work.d / adehnert  2012-07-19 16:51  (Alex Dehnert)
    One of the little ironies of working at a virtualization company is
    that you need to test things on physical hardware...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:33:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

I cleverly decided to dual-boot this one machine into two OSes
(BareMetal and stock Ubuntu) both of which I want to use right now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:35:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Whoo.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:35:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why do you want both of them? Don't you have infinity stock ubuntus?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:35:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Our excuse for not doing virtualization for testing is better."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:35:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

achernya: ?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:36:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can't you, like, run baremetal and ubuntu under workstation or
something and use nested?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:36:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Does VMware not run nested?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:36:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think I don't realize how different baremetal is from stock ubuntu,
and am confused why you want stock ubuntu because certainly your
primary work machine is at least close enough.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:37:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

achernya: It's different enough that I want to be absolutely
confident that this behavior is not our fault (or better yet that it
is, and so I can start bisecting)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:38:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for MODELS! <geofft>

and I, uh, don't want to sully my primary work machine with the VMware
kernel modules <_< >_> especially when I want to use kvm on it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:38:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I sorta thought you had piles of machines sitting around in your office. Am I jsut thinking of monitors?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Monitors. Each machine has 2-3

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:39:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

adehnert: Obvious objections are "it's slow" and "nested doesn't
really work anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:39:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Less obvious ones are "then I don't know if I'm misconfiguring the
host or the guest"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Jul 24 21:40:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Also "kvm doesn't support multimonitor" and "I don't know how to
trigger monitor hotplug events in Workstation" (and "if I did, I'd
have solved the problem at hand already")

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 03:55:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

there is so much housework to do

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 03:55:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I think I finally understand how "housewife" is a full time job

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 03:56:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

Maybe that's what I want to be when I grow up. For a couple years, at
least.

Class: geofft Instance: bicycles
Time: Wed Jul 25 16:56:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for PILOTS! <geofft>

I want a bicycle with a helicopter attachment for going up hills

Class: geofft Instance: bicycles
Time: Wed Jul 25 16:57:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That could mean anything from serious emotional abuse to Senate. - remeyer <wings>

Sounds like an excellent experimental aircraft!

Class: geofft Instance: bicycles
Time: Wed Jul 25 16:58:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm pretty sure you can't pedal hard enough.

Class: geofft Instance: bicycles
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:02:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, you want this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampe_bicycle_lift

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:05:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

... did you really fail to compile kernel modules because you couldn't
find an icon?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:06:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

This school district deployment still makes me very very nervous

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:07:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I'm just not looking forward to the Yurans.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:08:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was about to ask if that was the reason

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:09:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I, um, what?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:09:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for PREFROSH! <geofft>

That was my reaction too

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:10:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The whats?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:10:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

We're somewhat more locked down than Athena, but, like, anyone who
knows their way around GRUB can still have tons of fun

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:10:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yuran Lu? Have you heard the stories about him?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:10:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:11:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

oooh, ooh, can I do storytime with the frosh this year?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:11:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

http://tech.mit.edu/V125/PDF/N20.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:11:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not a frosh, just an outsider :)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:11:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"You could come to storytime"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:12:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Yuran Lu ’05 wanted to prove a point: you can’t trust a strange com-
puter.

For twenty years, MIT students have sat down in Athena clusters and
typed their passwords to log in. Nobody knows if their computer has
been tampered with. Maybe, just maybe, the computer will steal your
password and send it to someone bent on wrongdoing. You might never
know that somebody else was reading your e-mail.

Information Services & Technology knows, as do many students, that
this kind of tampering is possible. Most people seem to think the
risk is acceptable. Instead of trying to lock down cluster
workstations, IS&T focuses on detecting tampering and catching
perpetrators.

That wasn’t good enough for Lu, an East Campus senior majoring in
electrical engineering and computer science as well as mathematics.
Six weeks ago, he modified several public Athena computers to steal
the password of everybody who used them. He collected about 620
passwords in 24 hours. Then, on March 1, he sent them anonymously to
IS&T, The Tech, and the Student Information Processing Board. “Good
luck resetting 600 or so passwords,” he wrote, calling himself the
“Athena Insecurity Squad.”

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:12:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's tempting. I like stories!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:13:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation! <lfaraone>

I worked for my high school when I was in one, two years ago. They
seemed to be more concerned about third party maliciousness, not users
doing a massive password-stealing campaign. 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:15:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Benoit B. Mandelbrot. <dwilson>

That was the most egregious of Yuran's IT-security-related 
offenses, but not the only one.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:15:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. <mherdeg>

So Keith's sidebar says.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:15:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For teh lulz, he also taught the Intro to Athena minicourse until I
took it over

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

It's the most parallel/relevant one here.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:15:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Well, I dunno, is making yourself the owner of all public self-owned
lists really IT-security-related, or an offense?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:16:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's "being a dick" and "making lots of extra work for Laura"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:16:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

lfaraone: what? your high school _didn't_ have policy to prevent the
studetns from doing anything?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:16:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

"He also TA'd 6.857 the only semester that 6.857 ended up in court"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:16:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes, we all facepalmed at that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:18:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...wasn't that just 3-4 years ago?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:18:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, he came back as an MEng student in 2009.  I think that was spring
2010.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:18:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Err, my arithmetic is off.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:18:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

857 ended up in court in 2008

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:19:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right.  Anyway, two years after he finished undergrad, because the
outcome of the Athena-password-sniffing was that he was suspended for two
years.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:20:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

Did someone say the lottery yet?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:20:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

"But what does a famous Shirley Jackson short story have to do with
Random?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:21:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm not sure the touchpad would recognize that as a "finger", Paul." - oremanj <pbaranay>

Was 857-in-court the T thing, or something else?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:21:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

That was the T thing.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

We didn't fund tapioca.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:25:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

We did recognize them, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:41:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Conclusion: I hate computers, and I don't hate computers any less if
they're virtualized

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 17:46:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

AARGH *sysrqs*
... Hm, you know, maybe we should turn off magic-sysrq

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:03:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

... really the latest version of Player doesn't support the Precise
kernel yet?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:03:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

I was vaguely unsurprised when the not-latest version didn't support
the Wheezy kernel, but. *sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:04:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, really? "My version supports Precise."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:06:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

4.0.4?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:06:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

(build 744019)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:07:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for QUALIFYING LEADS! <geofft>

The internets claim it doesn't. If you want to get me 4.0.5...

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:10:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Don't we have a tech preview out that's newer than that?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:11:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does 4.0.5 *exist* yet?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:12:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I mean, admittedly, the code I'm running will first be released in
6.0.0 or something (whatever 2013 is).)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:13:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

No. "If you want to cause it to exist..."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:29:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark) Is this the vmnet module error?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for WOMBATS! <geofft>

AAAAAAARGH

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:29:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

WHY THE HELL DO I NEED TO UPLOAD MY UEFI APPLICATION USING FRICKIN'
SILVERLIGHT

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:30:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:30:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

DO I LOOK LIKE I USE INTERNET EXPLORER

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:30:16 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: If you make me Avenue Q-style muppets, I promise to record a YouTube video of "The Isilon is for Porn". -geofft <ismith>

Don't you?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:30:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you don't mind sketchy patches from the interwebs, I can point you
at one

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:30:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Well, right now I also don't mind reinstalling with Oneiric

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:31:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Also lol:

 Package requirements:

    Modules to be signed must be ship-quality and should have already
been tested using the Secure Boot Windows HCK manual tests.
    Modules to be signed must not allow untrusted code to execute.
    Modules to be signed must not be licensed under GPLv3 or similar
open source licenses
    By clicking "Submit" you agree that your submission adheres to
these guidelines.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

/mit/jdreed/Public/vmware3.2.0.patch if you care.  Applied fine to
workstation 8.0.4 and made it work

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Hm, I think that second requirement is actually new.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:27 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is this some Microsoft site, or what?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

As in, I haven't seen it before, and I kinda wonder if Canonical has

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Yeah, sysdev.microsoft.com

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

The second bullet is ... some hilariously underspecified language.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:32:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, there are patches floating around the interwebs that don't look
at least obviously evil.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:33:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do they define "or similar"?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:33:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I suspect that the vagueness is intentional.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:33:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

There's a definition in the legal agreements we signed

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:34:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/p/windows-logo-uefi-amendment.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:34:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Anyway, here is my ridiculoustarded upload dialog box:
http://ldpreload.com/p/secure-boot-upload.png

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:35:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:35:45 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So, do they actually audit your code for point 2, or is this Security
Through Legislation?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:35:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for COUGARS! <geofft>

I think the latter.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:36:07 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"So it's basically pointless"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:36:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Also this is not defined in the legal agreements, so maaaybe Canonical
is fine with allowing trusted code to execute that in turn executes
untrusted code

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:36:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Yeah well.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:37:06 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: ttants: NIMH, NiMH -zhangc <ismith>

"It trust it about as far as I can throw it."
"So you do trust it."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:37:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I assume they at least have a way to revoke it if turns out to "allow
untrusted code to execute"?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:37:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:38:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's a blacklist, it is updatable, and Microsoft will be including
blacklist updates in windows update. I wonder if the agreement
requires you to as well.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:38:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

It doesn't explicitly. I've always assumed it would

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:39:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Did they also require you to set your search engine to Bing?"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:39:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

mjg59 has been going "talked about at the plugfest" for a few things,
which confuses me, since we're not showing up for plugfests (maybe we
should, come to think of it).

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:50:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Huh.



Q: I got an installation error when I installed HCK Client on a Secure
Boot enabled system. What’s the workaround?

Disable Secure Boot while installing HCK Client. Secure Boot should be
disabled for most HCK testing, and only enabled to run the Secure Boot
tests.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 19:50:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

MS putting "Disable secure boot" in their FAQs for unrelated software
is actually pretty promising.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:16:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Software... for hardware vendors.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:17:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I'd buy that argument if they were only targeting the likes of Intel
or AMD/ATI, but "hardware" is homogeneous enough that people like
Western Digital and Belkin and such are affected

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:24:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Still seems like a person working for Western Digital to get hardware
certified for Windows can be asked to jump through painful hoops that
few consumers would go through.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:25:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Oh sure. But there's a frequent worry that hardware manufacturers will
completely fail to include the off switch

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:36:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Don Corlesbeone

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:53:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Oh man, AppleScript! I'd forgotten about AppleScript

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Jul 25 20:53:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If only I could.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 21:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Reading the ACPI spec andwondering where my life went wrong

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 21:42:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You require additional gin.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 21:46:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Enh, I'm reading this for fun at this point

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Jul 25 21:47:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Your life may have gone wrong, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:21:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Music is funnier if you replace "thing" with "thong". e.g.:

"'Cause you're every thong to me, and when I close my eyes it's you I
see"
"All of the thongs that go to make heaven and earth are here"
"... All the ... small thongs"

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:21:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for MODELS! <geofft>

Also Jonathan Coulton's Thong-A-Week collection.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:26:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

.. And would only be a liiittle bit out of character.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:26:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

> It's San Francisco. The cloud is EVERYWHERE here

I'm reminded of the ancient religious concept of "thin spaces" where
the boundary between heaven and earth is less

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:27:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

We live in a thin space where the cloud is near?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:27:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's true literally too!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:27:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Well, yeah, today it is :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:27:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Even in the Mission, today.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:28:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But nearly every day it's true in much of the city.

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Thu Jul 26 13:39:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

obligatory:  http://xkcd.com/321/

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:13:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

There's a van parked here, with its side painted with an American
flag, upon which is a picture of Clinton, a peace sign, a dog's face,
the Twin Towers with "never forget" above them in small letters, a
black person wearing some formof headband, and the messages "Freedomn
is NOT Free" ("NOT" triple-underlined) and "2 Pac R.I.P. 4EVA".

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:14:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Welcome to California"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:14:37 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: May you live in interesting times. <aatharuv>

I've jury-rigged a foot stool here, and it seems to be relieving the pain.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:14:41 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Fanboys to the left of me! Fanboys to the right of me! <aatharuv>

Errr, mix

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:15:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Four-year analysis. <dwilson>

yeah, that seems...less strange than other things I've seen in the Bay
Area

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:17:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER. <mherdeg>

Must be a Kixeye recruitment van.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Jul 26 14:18:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

but Geoff didn't mention any improperly-used image macros....

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

`vbetool post` FTW

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Where by "FTW" I mean something else.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:45:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

?!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:45:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You continue to require additional gin.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:46:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Apparnetly if you don't correctly load EFI graphics modules in GRUB
and boot up (with vt.handoff, I think), the graphics drivers get...
confused.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:47:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What do you mean "correctly load"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:47:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

You use a grub.cfg from grub-pc

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 18:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

grub-pc and grub-efi use different modules for initializing graphics
within GRUB.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:00:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

*cries* I hate everything. Especially if it starts with a V and rhymes
with "I don't care"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:00:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Also if it's Unity.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:00:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

How'd it break this time?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:00:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sniff*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:02:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Oh that's _awesome_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:02:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Ubuntu, two monitors, one to the right of the other, VMware running
Windows 7, full screen mode, "cycle multiple monitors" to get you in
dual screen. Hit it a few more times, and it ends up showing the
second monitor on the right screen and not the first monitor on the
left one.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:02:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:03:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

If you switch workspaces over (Ctrl-Alt-Right) and back
(Ctrl-Alt-Left), it toggles back to showing only the first screen on
the second monitor.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:03:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

If you repeatedly switch workspaces back, it toggles which monitor it
shows.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:10:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

lol, segfaulted finally

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:25:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

GIMPnet? Don't we have enough networks already?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:26:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did The Gimp manage to alienate both Freenode and OFTC?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:26:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

I dunno!

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:26:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

http://www.gimp.org/irc.html

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

"The official GIMP IRC channels are on GIMPNet (irc.gimp.org) and have
existed for more than 10 years. Many channels related to GTK+ and
GNOME are also on GIMPNet."

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:26:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

It's apparently the same as irc.gnome.org

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:28:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Floating eyes can't stand Hawaiian shirts.
 <rnjacobs>

probably gimp->gnome ?

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:31:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Is this thing secretly SSP?

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:32:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It MIGHT not be!

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:33:04 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that a black sheep has 3 bags full of wool.
 <rnjacobs>

you're not talking about the same SPICE as anyone else, surely...?

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:33:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

spice-space.org

Class: geofft Instance: spice
Time: Thu Jul 26 19:33:43 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

<facepalm> they could have chosen a less-well known thing to conflict with :p

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:05:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Did you miss that GIMPNet predates OFTC and maybe Freenode?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:12:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Yay, $VP says we're open to letting folks work out of SF (in like
coworking space or something) if that will get us good candidates for
my team

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:13:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

So, like, those of you who have complained about commuting to (or
worse, living in) Redwood City should talk to me. We'll make that not
an issue, we want good candidates

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:13:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

(And obviously I'll start working some to all of my time there)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:14:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Congratulations!  This sounds like a lifestyle upgrade, even apart from
the possibility of getting a coworker.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:14:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Well, I'm not actually going to bother unless I get a coworker in the
city.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:15:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Because I do have hardware here, and more importantly I do have
coworkers here -- even if I don't interact a _lot_ with the rest of my
team because we have too much to do, it's useful to have people around
(and I've been increasingly interacting with people not actually on my
team who we've been roping in to do BareMetal work)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:15:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

...

$VP: "What's a meme?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:15:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Do you think you could start working one or two days a week from SF?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:16:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for THE ARMY! <geofft>

That seems more annoying than working all the time here, because of
hardware. I could set up to work in coworking space (or at home, or
something) ~most of the time and be happy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:17:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

VP is bungling the description and repeating "all your bases are
belong to us" and when corrected "all your base are belongs to us"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:18:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"If you admit to your younger employees that you don't know what a
meme is, you're gonna have a bad time."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:18:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  If I were considering working there, I'd worry about how bad it
would be not to see the people in Redwood City, and how often I'd have to
end up going down there after all.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:18:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I think the expectation would be sometimes but generally less than weekly.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:19:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So in that situation I would be happier knowing that you were
successfully already not going down there very often.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:19:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Oh, true.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:20:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

That would involve packing up and moving a bunch of crap...
I'm successfully not needing to actively interact with people more
than weekly, I think (nice as it is to have people around), and just
coordinate by email.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:20:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Which I can say with some confidence because my schedule doesn't
really line up with anyone else's.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Jul 26 20:22:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Depending on how much stuff you end up needing (in terms of hardware),
it might be fun if it's at home! (:

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Thu Jul 26 23:23:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

I think everyone on this class in the area got my email about this,
but in case I missed anyone, we're having a housewarming Saturday
evening, you should come by. http://pointlesstopology.com/events

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 00:24:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

ughhhhhh. Sitting around without eating and being halfway productive
is possibly worse than not being productive at all, because then I
don't feel obligated to get up and get dinner

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 00:24:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

but then I start to move and I'm like "ok where did the calories go"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 00:24:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Dude, go get dinner.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 00:25:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++achernya. You've been outvoted. Go eat food,

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 00:26:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++ Do you need to make us override with a 2/3rds supermajority?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 01:58:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

You should have come home and eaten with price and myself.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:09:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

If we declared 2013 the year where all CS folks just put startups and
crap on hold for a bit and decided to make their talents available
towards curing cancer, would that help?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:09:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And I rolled her in my arms, me boys, and wouldn't you do too? <kdrinkwa>

I doubt it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:10:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Tie our ends up we surely do, for Elsie Thompson but not for you <kdrinkwa>

I mean, it would probably help, but I'm not sure it would be the best
use of everyone's time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:11:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: For if he did, I have no doubt, he'd turn me pockets inside out <kdrinkwa>

My first instinct is that it would be better for some larger
percentage of CS people to study biology and work on computational and
systems stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:12:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

It could simply not help at all, see "adding developers to a late
project makes it later".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:12:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

Are there open problems for people to tackle? (This sounds kinda like
open source recruitng...)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:12:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: A cherry when it is in bloom, I'm sure it has no stone <kdrinkwa>

You know what might help? If anyone were willing to do something so
hairy and unglamorous, it'd be cool if a small army volunteered to go
clean up scientific software / code written by biologists, and make it
not suck.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:13:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Hah. That does sound fun.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:14:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let p be composite. <dwilson>

This reminds me of an ad on the T that says "Is your code good enough
to fix health care?"
I think it's recruiting CS people for a biotech/medical company, but
that phrasing of the question always made me look at it funny

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:15:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

My code is so good that it has caused me to attain nirvana, a state in
which all things are possible, even fixing health care.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:15:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And the answer they gave me, we are single and we are free <kdrinkwa>

I get the idea that some kind of standards and open-source-ing would
be super nice for, like, simulation code that people use in one paper.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:18:28 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I kept on trying to say something but it was all snark that explained nothing -rnjacobs <ismith>

==geofft re "That does sound fun", and it is approximately how I plan
on getting back in to academic linguistics if I ever do.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:19:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

== dwilson, I complained about that ad here recently

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:22:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Nice little planet you've got here. Shame if something happened to it. <eichin>

other academic fields have this problem too (Laura
is on a campaign to apply software engineering concepts like "testing"
to network simulation, which is further from CS than you'd think)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:23:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Apparently people think the way to attract programmers is to make
everything into a dick-measuring contest.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:25:41 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I tried to bring scipy down off the mountain to Aletta's
coworkers in Astophysics, and they were having none of it.
THey still use IDL, which makes one wish for Fortran.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I wonder if this is what the debian-med folks are doing. On the
surface, taking biomedical software and making them fit for a
distribution like Debian sounds similar

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:27:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

But I assume that the folks in that project are all course 7 or 20
grad students or similar, not bored course 6 types

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:28:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Satwik got thousands of dollars worth of MIT parking tickets and then
left the state, but it became a problem when he gave his car to his
younger brother, Shreyes, who tried to get an MIT parking sticker to
use at Next House.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:29:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Re-registering the car in a new state generated new plates, which
solved the problem.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:29:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

THere is a substantial (and deeply unhappy) free software
movement around electronic medical records and similar. I
assumed that was what debian-med was doing.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:29:28 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Forgetting everything you knew about FORTRAN is not a bug. -broder <ismith>

... thousands of dollars of parking tickets?  How ...

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:29:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Wow

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:30:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-med-packaging@lists.alioth.debian.org&ordering=3
I think this is more towards biomedical research these days than
merely making medical practices have better enterprise software

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:32:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

iirc he just ignored the posted signed around places like Kresge, and
no one ever cared enough to tow.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:32:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Haven't left home yet... Kinda want to stay at my apartment and clean
things intermittently and read some docs for future stuff, since I'll
only get to work at 1 at this point, but the things I do most need to
work on in the short term involve physical hardware.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Fri Jul 27 14:34:05 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Paul's science penis is THIIIIIIIIIIIS big. -pbaranay <ismith>

That's impressive.  Wish I'd known you could maybe get away with that.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.gnome
Time: Fri Jul 27 15:07:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

This is an _awesome_ thread:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-April/msg00114.html

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Fri Jul 27 16:48:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

OWL ADMIN
    MOTD for gimp
    - irc.gimp.ca Message of the Day -
    - This is ircd-hybrid MOTD replace it with something better
    End of /MOTD command.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:24:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Oops, got my boss into some state where he's not on a branch and did
some work and is having trouble pushing because of that. Submodules
are involved.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Maybe it is work-productive for me to shave some git submodule yaks

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:26:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Really, mirrors.fedoraproject.org is 503ing? Kwality

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:26:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

WFM

Class: geofft Instance: eip.juxta
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:35:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Zephyr from achernya  2012-07-27 14:34  (To extend our reach to the stars above)
    This is really annoying.
Zephyr from lizdenys  2012-07-27 14:34  (putting out fire with gasoline)
    "to you"

Class: geofft Instance: eip.juxta
Time: Fri Jul 27 17:35:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:02:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for PANDAS! <geofft>

It's Christmas! (Another customer shipped me another desktop)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:02:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

I think it might be time to get a KVM.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:05:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Also, a small mirror for plugging things in

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:27:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

lol, the hardware had a DIMM half-plugged in when it arrived

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:28:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Sales engineer q: "They should call it Hewlett Crappard"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:29:42 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: MESSIAH HALL SHALL SAVE US -pbaranay <ismith>

http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/HP-SUX.html

"Hackers at HP/Apollo (the former Apollo Computers which was swallowed
by HP in 1989) have been heard to complain that Mr. Packard should
have pushed to have his name first, if for no other reason than the
greater eloquence of the resulting acronym."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Fri Jul 27 18:52:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for MARKETERS! <geofft>

"There is no computing project that is worth your life.  Turn off the
computer.  Seek help.  Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the
birds in the trees.  Talk to people you know.  Talk to strangers!
Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there.
Build a treehouse.  Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway.
Make a macaroni necklace.  Visit a dairy.  Climb a rock.  Seek life.

"Life is so much more than code."

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ide/52517

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:03:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for PREFROSH! <geofft>

I kinda want a FUSE interface to Trac

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:04:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Is there a FUSE interface to arbitrary REST APIs?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:09:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f07e/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:29:31 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> I tried to bring scipy down off the mountain to Aletta's coworkers in
> Astrophysics

My ex-roommate who is now a theoretical physicist has tried to do the
same thing, except with SAGE because that's what theoreticians need.  It
hasn't worked any better.  None of his colleagues want to learn anything
but Mathematica, even though it's awful.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:30:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Oh yeah, I was meaning to mention "isn't this what SAGE does".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:31:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

So the question is how much do non-CS-types (and the occasional CS
type) actually lose productivity because of crappy software, and how
do you get them to buy into it and tell you to fix it instead of
trying to sell them on something new?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:37:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Marissa spent about 2-5% of her PhD thesis time (tens of days)
learning about pointer arithmetic in C, allocating arrays on the heap
so enormous that her code only worked on half the cluster machines
she ran it on, using embarrassingly parallel design patterns in
semi-broken ways, and wrangling someone's Fortran implementation of
the Runge-Kutta method.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't be slaves of time, it's a helluva way to die, slowly, by degrees ... down with the Ticktockman! <mherdeg>

She spends about 30% of her post-PhD time writing code in IDL, the
internationally agreed-upon language of space physicists, which is
efficient for a certain kind of data processing and makes many other
kinds of science nearly impossible.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:43:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for FARMERS! <geofft>

Tens of days doesn't seem too long, and doesn't seem more than, say,
the amount of time you'd expect to take to teach someone effective
Python.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:44:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Whether effective Python instead of a half understanding of pointers
in C would cause you to do the rest of your work better, I don't know,
and I feel hesitant to assert from here that it would.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Making science impossible, on the other hand, does seem problematic.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 19:45:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

I think the tricky bit with, suddenly doing all your data analysis in
a modern language with proper numeric libraries, would be making sure
you can still communicate effectively with the 90% of the tiny
community (in this case, like, the European Space Agency) that all
uses one unpleasantly monocultural tool chain.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:08:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==mherdeg.  I think the big obstacle for my roommate David's quest has
been that everyone in the community knows Mathematica and can grok bits
of Mathematica code that are passed around.  Even though it's impossible
to write anything robust and nontrivial.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:22:04 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I feel like Mathematica struck me as (and perhaps more usefully, I've
heard less complaining about) than MATLAB.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:22:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I've programmed in both, and Mathematica made me much unhappier than
Matlab.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:23:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At the same time, Mathematica has magical-seeming abilities that exceed
the magic of Matlab.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:23:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Mathematica taught me the lambda calculus. Matlab just taught me
hatred.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Mathematica is a programming environment where you can hit space, then
backspace, and your program stops working.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Oh, I just never used the graphical environment

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Because there is weird hidden stuff in the representation of your
program text.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

mathematica is pretty based on lisp, which is entertaining, but yeah
the graphical env sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I could not stand that sort of thing, so I always used the CLI

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

As in only the terminal REPL?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Did you ever try writing more than a few lines at a time?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:24:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:25:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

I think I did that in Notepad?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:25:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

I'm not claiming my high school use of Mathematica in anyway resembled
serious. But it was workable

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:26:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Mathematica is a little like Perl (*): the one-liners are awesome, but
when you try to write a program it's shot full of bugs and brittleness.

(*) except that AFAIK there is no secret way to actually write it sanely,
as I hear and believe there is for Perl

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:26:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Or maybe shell is a better analogy.  C shell.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:28:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Even if you eschew the graphical environment -- which deprives you
of a good chunk of the magic you're there for -- the language even in
plain ASCII form has nasty flaws that I never could get anyone to tell me
a solution for.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:30:05 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It doesn't have lexical scoping.  Worse, it doesn't even really have
dynamic scoping, but something less coherent.  It's all based on applying
rewrite rules, which AFAICT make it impossible to write program
components that don't risk getting messed up by the other code they
interact with.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:30:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

pre'ey much, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:31:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I'm not sure why this desktop has a reset button that's like a
centimeter in diameter and juts out a little bit... instead of maybe
being a pin, behind a molly guard?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:32:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Wouldn't you push it anyhow, even if it was behind a mollyguard?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:32:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Kind of like your key in your SATA port?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:32:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

No, it's on the ground. I accidentally brushed it while moving my
backpack

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:32:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I should have blogged or something the specific examples I knew when I
had recently used Mathematica.  It would take me some work to reconstruct
them now.  But they're all of the form 'how do you do XYZ', where XYZ is
some very straightforward construction if you thought you were writing in
a real programming language, and it turns out that all the obvious things
to try actually get interpreted in hilariously other ways and nobody I
put the questions to could find a way to make it work.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:33:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

If I CLONE_NEWNS, mount a tmpfs, and exit, what... happens to that
mount?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Fri Jul 27 20:33:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Does it leak?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:06:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

... Oh, is is Guild Camp?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:07:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Capitalization is for people who wish to be unobfuscatory." - ismith <pbaranay>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:24:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for MARKETERS! <geofft>

You know what I would pay money for? A USB key that had a tiny
display running along the side that showed the volume name when you
pressed a button.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:28:31 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Umm, label maker? Sharpie?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:28:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Yeah, but I reformat these often and change their contents

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:28:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I want to know what build is on a certain stick

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:29:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I guess if there are labels that have whiteboard surfaces or
something, that would kinda work.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:35:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Are you reciting poetry to influence policy? -geofft <ismith>

That would also erase easily.  Maybe a notebook with the current
values of "STICK A" "STICK B" "STICK C"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:35:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Sounds like way too much effort

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 01:36:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PONZI SCHEME for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Oooh, I can make the process that writes USB sticks also keep track
of the identified name of the stick and the thing it last wrote to it

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:36:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

What's the proper behavior when you're trying to park a car somewhere
and someone is peeing against the wall in front of your parking spot?

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:37:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: passing out is a security vulnerability -afarrell <ismith>

Circle the block to give them time to finish?

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:37:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I chose "wait for them to finish". Other options that occured to me
were "start pulling into the spot", "honk", and "flash lights"

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:37:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ISn't that... graffiti?

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

It's a tiny lot off the street -- it's hard to pull back out onto the
street without pulling in all the way.

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

As it was I was blocking the sidewalk.

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:38:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "patches welcome" ~= "this is left as an exercise to the reader" -zhangc <ismith>

I feel like those other three options lead to one of two scenarios:
pissing off someone who is drunk and, best case, may start peeing on
your car; or upsetting someone who doesn't have other options.  But
waiting there seems fine, maybe with a light flash.

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:38:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Oh apparently tonight is public urination night, some guy almost
walked into me peeing down the sidewalk

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:39:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, what?

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:41:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

It's quite possible every Friday night at 12:30 AM in the Mission
counts as public urination night...

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:41:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There was a guy walking while peeing?

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:43:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Yup

Class: geofft Instance: etiquette
Time: Sat Jul 28 03:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do not drop, dissasemble, crush, bend, bake, deform, puncture, blend, shred, incinerate, paint, bring to the moon, or insert foreign objects <yoz>

This. This is what I do not love about the Mission.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 10:30:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

*stark* there exist usb sticks with cholesteric displays that display
things like space remaining and volume label. I think the one I had
BITD required special windows-only software to update the display, but
the display works indefinitely without power, so that sounds like what
you want?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 18:44:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Yeah, that sounds useful.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Jul 28 18:44:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

And I'm sure the protocol is trivial to reverse-engineer

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Jul 28 23:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

> Is your code good enough to fix healthcare
The problem here is that for most of the problems, you have to develop
in English, which is worse than PHP.

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 03:30:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Our housewarming appears to have turned into a Manic Sages hackathon?

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 03:34:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh no, what has happened since I left??

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 04:32:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

... seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 04:53:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

There were only three of us... and we weren't even hacking for long...

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 04:53:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

SUUURRREE. :P

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 14:20:13 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Getting whacked on the head really hard with a clue-by-four, or How I
learned to become bitter and regain my sanity. <aatharuv>

Sounds like you had a fun housewarming. Wish I could have been there :-)

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 14:20:13 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Getting whacked on the head really hard with a clue-by-four, or How I
learned to become bitter and regain my sanity. <aatharuv>

Sounds like you had a fun housewarming. Wish I could have been there :-)

Class: geofft Instance: housewarming
Time: Sun Jul 29 14:31:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Agreed, 'twas fun!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Jul 30 17:58:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

online, skimmed through zephyr from Saturday night onwards

Class: geofft Instance: smolt
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:05:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

(Smolt is Fedora's (old) hardware stats collector)

The top few computer models are kind of disappointing:
http://www.smolts.org/static/stats/stats.html

Class: geofft Instance: smolt
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:08:03 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

Everything nonstandard together is 1/1000th, and most of those are
relatively-recently-manufactured?

Class: geofft Instance: smolt
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:10:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for TRAVELING! <geofft>

This is an excellent privacy policy. Especially the "Storage" bullet
points
https://fedorahosted.org/smolt/wiki/PrivacyPolicy

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:12:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Wait, 9GAG is a YC company? Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:28:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Whoa really? haha 

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:32:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for FARMERS! <geofft>

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/07/30/funny-funding-humor-website-9gag-raises-2-8-million-and-releases-an-ios-app/

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Jul 30 18:39:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I suppose this *won't* end up on reddit... ;)

Class: geofft Instance: mjg59.q
Time: Mon Jul 30 19:30:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

"You think it's difficult bringing up a compiler on a new
architecture? Try bringing up a fruitfly from scratch."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:15:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

"An abandoned warehouse in San Francisco, kitted up as for a rave,
electronica playing at 15db louder than “my ears are bleeding and I’m
developing an aneurism” volumes and the windows all painted over black
so that the strobe and spotlights and lasers can be seen better.
Computers, mainly made of whatever stuff has been exchanged for crack
or scavenged from dumpsters behind dot-bombs, are scattered around on
whatever furniture is available, which also consists of whatever stuff
has been exchanged for crack or scavenged from dumpsters behind
dot-bombs. There’s no break area, but you may be able to bum a beer
(or more likely something harder) off of one of the developers hanging
around, and they will probably be too jacked up on X, coke, acid,
heroin, ether or all of the above to notice that you’ve taken
anything.

"Development strategies are generally determined by whatever light
show happens to be going on at the moment, when one of the developers
will leap up and scream “I WANT IT TO LOOK JUST LIKE THAT” and then
straight-arm his laptop against the wall in an hallucinogenic frenzy
before vomiting copiously, passing out and falling face-down in the
middle of the dance floor. There’s no whiteboard, so developers
diagram things out in the puddles of spilt beer, urine and vomit on
the floor.

"At the end of the day - whenever that is since an equal number of
programmers will be passed out at any given time - or really whenever
someone happens to think of it (which is rarely), someone might type
“make” on some machine somewhere, with mixed results. Generally
nothing happens, so he/she shrugs his/her shoulders and wanders off
to look for someone who might have more pink/black-striped pills.
Once in a great while, generally in the unpleasant time between the
come-down from the last thing they took and before whatever it was
they took just now comes on fully, someone will tar up a bunch of
random files and post it on a website someplace it as the next GNOME
release, usually with a reference to some kind of monkey."

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:17:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, the early 00s.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:18:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Yeah, this is from 2002.

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:18:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Yeah, this is from 2002.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:26:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Yay, church _finally_ put me on their mailing list

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:28:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

==

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:28:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Hoorah for Mary, hoorah for the lamb, hoorah for the Fenian Boys who do not give a damn <kdrinkwa>

I... dammit, I wish I had actually read the Bible so I could make a
joke about blance or moira or something.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:29:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

"I think that's the wrong Mediterranean mythology"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:30:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Think, pretty maids, ere you marry <kdrinkwa>

?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 20:31:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Well, I guess blanche isn't.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 22:49:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Wait, do you mean the developers of the Church language?
Or a local religious institution?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:13:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

The latter

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:29:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Worst icon for QA ever:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=iconQA48.png

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:29:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

... Worst icon for accessibility ever:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=accessibilityteam.png

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:33:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, those do not seem like winners.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:34:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Syncing http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/wiki/InterMapTxt to work's
Trac. MLID

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:36:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

zhangc and jinstone, have you met?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:37:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I feel like this might be an amusing meeting to listen to

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Jul 30 23:37:59 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Only if you can pitchshift it down a couple of octaves

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Jul 31 00:19:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

SpongeTalk Square Pants

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Jul 31 00:19:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That seems accurate.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Jul 31 00:25:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Especially when you see the people holding hands in the circle...!

Class: geofft Instance: books
Time: Tue Jul 31 04:38:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Oops, finished _Mistborn_. And I just started it on... Saturday?
Friday night?

Class: geofft Instance: books
Time: Tue Jul 31 04:40:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I finished _The Lies of Locke Lamora_ on Friday evening, and that took
me a week, and I was annoyed I finished it so fast.

Class: geofft Instance: books
Time: Tue Jul 31 04:42:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Anyway, both were really good books. :) The ending of the latter was a
little too convenient, but meh.

Class: geofft Instance: books
Time: Tue Jul 31 05:07:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

_Lies_ took me like half a week. It was a sign I was slowing down. :(

Class: geofft Instance: smolt
Time: Tue Jul 31 12:04:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow, yeah re: top computer models

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I wonder if someone's done studies on salaries of introverts vs.
extraverts

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:29:43 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I saw one last year.  It varied widely by industry/field

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:30:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

e.g. introvert real-estate agents or marketing types generally do
terrible.  introvert code monkeys do better

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:30:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I can try and dig it up if you care

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:30:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Do introvert code monkeys do better than extravert ones?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:30:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: TODDING (vb.) The business of talking amiably and aimlessly to the barman at the local. <ahailes>

do better than other code monkeys?  or--yes, that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:31:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Also, ran across (from somewhere, probably Reddit or HN) this last
night:
http://owlcityblog.com/2011/06/27/10-myths-about-introverts/
I have no idea if the science is just babbling or not, but "dopamine
receptors get saturated and need to stop being overstimulated" sounds
totally reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:31:59 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I don't recall.  It was largely qualitative, and noted that most
management types (especially these days, where management is a career
one goes into as opposed to getting promoted) are extroverts and tend
to be more comfortable around them, so extrovert code monkeys do
better than introverts where the manager is an extrovert.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:32:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

*getting promoted from within

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:32:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But I imagine this also varies widely by employer

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:33:08 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So I think any quantitative studies you find are going to be so narrow
as to not be useful

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:35:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I'm specifically wondering about starting salaries, and willingness to
negotiate aggressively

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:41:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's orthogonal, I think.  Extroversion does not necessarily imply
negotiating skills.  You can be an extrovert and still hate
controversy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:42:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We should also clarify whether you're using extrovert/introvert in the
Myers-Briggs sense, or in the "jock vs nerd" sense

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:49:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I mean in the Myers-Briggs sense, or at least in the sense used in
that blog post.

Class: geofft Instance: monoceros
Time: Tue Jul 31 14:50:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for PANDAS! <geofft>

Surprising no one but me, my iPad is getting kind of beaten up

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Jul 31 15:15:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

I'm not sure if I dislike more going into a grocery store hungry and
buying all the things or going into a grocery store with no appetite
and buying nothing

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Jul 31 15:16:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

You just discovered the purpose of shopping lists.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Jul 31 15:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for PANDAS! <geofft>

But this wasn't for ingredients, this is "I need lunch and dinner"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Jul 31 15:41:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You may want to move away from just-in-time shopping...

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:01:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Huh, there's apparently an active #vmware channel on Freenode

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:03:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Maybe too active.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:05:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It's active. Too active.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:07:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of Coca-Cola. <ezyang>

It's a (int 21) TRAP!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:08:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/FedFS

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:09:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Oh wait, this is actally pretty cool

Class: geofft Instance: wut.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of BEOWULF. <ezyang>

FedFS
FredFS

Class: geofft Instance: wut.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:10:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Well, really, ttants is "Fedora File System" and "Federated File
System".

Class: geofft Instance: wut.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:10:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Never mind a Fast File System.

Class: geofft Instance: wut.ttants
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:11:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:13:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Single global namespace without centralized infrastructure beyond DNS? What is
this madness.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:18:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for FARMERS! <geofft>

Awesome, apparently I get lots of karma from having my account
compromised and posting about it on /r/netsec. Time to go sign up for
lots of probably-poorly-secured websites!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:18:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for FARMERS! <geofft>

Awesome, apparently I get lots of karma from having my account
compromised and posting about it on /r/netsec. Time to go sign up for
lots of probably-poorly-secured websites!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:19:01 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... which account?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:22:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Maple had its customer DB breached and used to send targeted malware

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:23:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O
As in Maplesoft?  I... feel like I should have heard about this

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:23:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

http://redd.it/ws3w1

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:23:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

They sent everyone mail!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:23:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Also why are you not subbed to /r/netsec!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:24:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Because if I subscribe to more subreddits, I'll waste more time on
there.  With the default settings, there are only about 30% of them
that I care about.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:24:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm kinda surprsied that redd.it is "Miscellaneous or Unknown"...

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:25:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/ws3w1/maplesoft_customer_db_breached_used_to_send/
http://www.maplesoft.com/security/
ssh -D1080 linerva.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:25:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

> Time to go sign up for lots of probably-poorly-secured websites!

Nonono, time to go *hack into* lots of poorly-secured websites.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:26:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Uh, one of those lines is not like the others

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:27:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Nah, "Misc/Unknown" just gets a clickthrough.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:27:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Also, -w seems better."

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:28:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Yeah, but that requires having root on linerva

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:29:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh really? Huh. I've never actually used it.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:29:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(But (a) I have root on linerva, and (b) I'd use novgorod anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: is&t
Time: Tue Jul 31 16:59:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

"about to embark on the Cyrus IMAP retirement campaign"

Class: geofft Instance: is&t
Time: Tue Jul 31 17:00:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's unclear what side quests are involved.

Class: geofft Instance: is&t
Time: Tue Jul 31 17:01:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for BARISTAS! <geofft>

A shrubbery!

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Jul 31 17:03:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Via said IRC channel:
http://maxmahem.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/VMWare-Troubleshooting-Flowchart.png

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:20:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for BEER! <geofft>

Sigh, they're trying to make Debathena illegal

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:20:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Someone remind me to care later.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:20:38 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

.... @i{illegal} ?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:20:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Trademark infringement

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:22:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "Schmebathena"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:22:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which trademark? Debian?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:23:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:23:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

glasgall++

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:23:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Easy solution!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:23:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, that name isn't distinct enough?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

The logo is pretty blatantly a derivative work.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anders is not wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Right, they might be trying to trademark the logo?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

I dunno if they mean just the official logo.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I suppose that just flipping the spiral to go the other way or
something wouldn't be enough.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:24:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:25:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

I _assume_ they aren't meaning to restrict usage of the open-use logo.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:25:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"We need to change our logo" seems even less of a problem than "We
need to change our name".

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:25:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

Anyway, I'll care later

Class: geofft Instance: debian-project
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:27:47 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You all use version control, right?  Lie to me and nod. <ismith>

The athena formerly known as Debathena.  Complete with a weirdass
symbol that no one can type.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:36:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

$ svn merge -c -60143 .
svn: Cannot reverse-merge a range from a path's own future history; try updating first

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:36:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for BEER! <geofft>

Future history? "and I thought git had confusing error messages"

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:37:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

Also, I wish I were wearing my Historical Preenactment Society t-shirt

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:37:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeah, it's history that hasn't been seen by your working copy, duh.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Right, I figured that out once I stopped my brain from melting at the
time paradox.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:41:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

A pretty good introduction to the Future History is "The Roads Must
Roll", which invented the Segway.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:43:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...huh, you're right, it totally did.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:43:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...huh, you're right, it totally did.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:43:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

To my mind the core of the Future History is "The Man Who Sold the
Moon" (which showed us people like Richard Branson and Elon Musk, and
which still has some important lessons about entrepreneurship) and
the sequel "Requiem", which is pretty heartbreaking.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:43:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

To my mind the core of the Future History is "The Man Who Sold the
Moon" (which showed us people like Richard Branson and Elon Musk, and
which still has some important lessons about entrepreneurship) and
the sequel "Requiem", which is pretty heartbreaking.

Class: geofft Instance: work.svnq
Time: Tue Jul 31 18:45:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Still no flying cars, though.

Class: geofft Instance: upstart.docs.q
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:30:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

"The authors have taken as much care as possible in the preparation of
this document. However, you are advised strongly to exercise extreme
caution when changing critical system facilities such as the init
daemon. Most situations are recoverable and advice is provided in this
document, but if your system explodes in a ball of fire or becomes
unusable as a result of a suggestion from this document, you alone
have the intellectual pleasure of fixing your systems."

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:34:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Yeah I clearly do not understand this as well as I should

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:54:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

... Awesome, if you do
pre-stop script
    start
end script
you can make a job UNSTOPPABLE.

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:55:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"If you strike me down, I will only become more powerful than you can
possibly imagine"

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:56:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:56:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

DO IT

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 21:59:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

I'm not sure what IT is.

Class: geofft Instance: upstart.d
Time: Tue Jul 31 22:00:20 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That's possibly the best and most accurate of your thisforthat zsigs

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Tue Jul 31 22:31:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

aaah

Class: geofft Instance: ungit
Time: Tue Jul 31 22:47:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

- Everything is a commit, at all times. There's no such thing as
  un-checked-in modifications in the working copy -- if you run any
  ungit command, it automatically checks in what you're doing. This
  allows you to easily decide when you're doing work that you wanted
  it on a branch -- the checkout process rebases the implicit commit.
- Splitting commits, therefore, must be very easy. Also joining
  commits.

Class: geofft Instance: ungit
Time: Tue Jul 31 22:47:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

(Context: I've had an idea bouncing around in my head for a while to
make a git-data-model-compatible VCS that takes every UI design
decision possible differently to see what would happen)

Class: geofft Instance: zsigs
Time: Wed Aug  1 00:22:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

> So, basically, it's like a API for GAY MARRIAGES!

So, basically, it's San Francisco

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug  1 00:32:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

-> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:27:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

"... might be your future wife, and she Googles your name and goes
'nope'"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:27:47 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: imsith: Darth Ian, the Snarkbot Sith. -pbaranay <ismith>

*note to self: thank parents for naming you "Ian Smith"*

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:42:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"Guess who almost touched Emma Watson's twin sister's bicycle."

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:42:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you hear weird things on CT :)

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:43:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for FARMERS! <geofft>

The rows behind me are having a conversation about how to get
themselves set up with Emma Watson and where she's studying now and
such. I have no idea if they know each other, or the conversation
started with "Guess who has the hots for Emma Watson." *silence on the
train car* *from the next row* "Me."

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:44:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

huh.  we have the same birthday.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:44:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

CLEARLY IT MUST BE FATE

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:45:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i, unlike most people it seems, do not have the hots for emma watson.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

"But just in case, the one time she is on Caltrain, we must be
prepared!"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:45:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait, why would she be on caltrain?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:45:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

I dunno, but they were looking around nervously before they said that

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:45:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahhhhhaha

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

OK apparently they do know each other.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:46:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

well, according to wiki she's at Brown, so...

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:46:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

They were claiming Oxford, currently

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:46:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

the people involved or one of the people and emma watson

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:47:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

No no, the rows behind me know each other.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:47:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for FARMERS! <geofft>

Not that anyone knows Emma Watson.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:47:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ah ok

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:48:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

seriously, i sometimes think "am i like the only male who doesn't have
the hots for emma watson?"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:49:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for MARKETERS! <geofft>

I mean, do you have the hots for the abstract ideal represented by
Hermione?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:50:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

"How awesome is Benedict Cumberbatch?"
"That's the most British name you could possibly have"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:50:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"a girl that can do magic?"

yes, but hermione the character is sufficiently different age wise
from me that it doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:50:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 01:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I remember thinking that Luna seemed more attractive.
This probably has more to do with my self-identification as wierd
than any comparison of appearance.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:00:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

The actress who played Luna was pretty attractive separate from her spacey weirdness in
the movie.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:03:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Well, in fact. But I figure that-

you know, I'm not certain that any of the ways I'm considering
continuing that statement are non-creepy, so I'm just going to go
back to not talking about other people's attractiveness.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:03:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Well, in fact. But I figure that-

you know, I'm not certain that any of the ways I'm considering
continuing that statement are non-creepy, so I'm just going to go
back to not talking about other people's attractiveness.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:04:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

good call

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:04:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

at least for celebrities, I feel like too much description is creepy

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:32:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

/me looks up who Emma Watson is

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:38:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-caltrain
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:47:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Ha!

Class: geofft Instance: eip.zsigs
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:49:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

> So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for SIPB
> MEMBERS!

Sounds useful.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 02:52:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

I continue to be confused at awesome people who do not think they're
awesome. Zephyr seems to be particularly good at being filled with
such people

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug  1 04:10:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

the worst part about graduating is that domain names no longer
implicitly resolve to .mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug  1 04:24:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've almost written $vmwarelist@mit.edu a couple times in bug
reports, emails, etc..

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug  1 04:25:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Does your client not autocomplete?

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug  1 04:25:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Bodies, not headers.

Class: geofft Instance: scripts
Time: Wed Aug  1 09:53:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Spin The Top <kchen>

I have my home router's default search path set to mit.edu.  But I
don't actually make use of that, because at work, I type the entire
name anyway, so I do the same at home.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:26:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Now I want Chick-Fil-A :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:27:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. - Hitchhiker's Guide <wings>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:27:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

If I donate an equal amount of money to gay people does that make it
okay?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:27:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Just wait until tomorrow.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:05 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Someone in front of me is on the zephyrnets, and I don't know him. Weird. -wings <ismith>

I will accept your chicken offset money, geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

My mayor says the closest one is 40 miles away. Totally within driving
distance

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:16 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Are you really trying to claim that weddings can't be evil? -pbaranay <ismith>

achernya: I thought the kiss-in was on Friday?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for MARKETERS! <geofft>

What's tomorrow? Oh, are they doing that?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Man why can't In-N-Out make chicken sandwiches.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:28:50 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I think I just got hazed by the Boston Herald. -phurst <ismith>

I thought so.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:29:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

ismith: I didn't realize there was a counter-event planned.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug  1 15:30:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/homemade-chick-fil-a-sandwiches-recipe.html

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:28:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Apparently someone is taking up a core running `yes`.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:28:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, is that why my zgrep -i opie /usr/share/man/man*/* was taking
forever.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

could this also be causing problems with barnowl logging?

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:30:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

On the very first multi-user Linux server I ever ran, someone once
filled up the disk catting /dev/urandom to a file and grepping it for
swearwords.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:30:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Best use of resources ever

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:31:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

there was apparently some sort of filesystem blip on linerva as well;
related to the aforementioned logging error, "quota -v" gave no output
for me on linerva.  (It's since fixed itself.)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:32:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

..,why would you do that, it's random....

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:58:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

> Hewlett-Packard has scored a victory in court that could give its
> Itanium-based servers an extended lease on life. A California judge
> has ruled that Oracle's decision to drop support for the Itanium
> processor in future versions of its database products was a breach of
> contract, and that Oracle is required to continue to develop products
> for Itanium "until such time as HP discontinues the sales of its
> Itanium-based servers." Additionally, "Oracle is required to port its
> products to HP’s Itanium-based servers without charge to HP."

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/hp-wins-judgement-in-itanium-suit-against-oracle/

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:58:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for BEER! <geofft>

Itanium... exists?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:59:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:59:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does! Somehow!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:59:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, noooooooo.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 16:59:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Some guy was running OpenAFS servers on FreeBSD on it, and I had to
refrain from laughing in public.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:02:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for AIRLINES! <geofft>

I feel like if I were HP I would just start making Itanium 49-key
keyboards and selling them for the next thirty years or something to
spite Oracle

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:03:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

+++

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:03:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Joshua, are you in the ER yet? Go to the ER and stop plus-plusing
things

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:03:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

stfu, i got this

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:03:42 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

Josh why do you need to go to the ER

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:04:17 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

my tongue is just a bit swollen and by body aches.  gonna do some
laundry, take a 5pm development meeting, and reevaluate after then

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:04:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

not healthy life choices

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

anyway, this itanic thing is hilarious

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Enh, "emergency" rooms ... aren't.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:13 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

idk that sounds pretty reasonable to me

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:24 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

the ER would make you wait forever since you aren't bleeding out

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

right

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:05:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

and i don't even know what's wrong yet, so i have low expectation that
an ER doctor will....

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:06:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If only there were professionals, trained to diagnose
medical problems and colocated with proper equipment.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:06:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Right, because you're as skilled in the medical arts as an ER doctor

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:06:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah, if only.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:07:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

maybe in 50 years...

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:07:06 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

My experience/advice is that "my tongue is swelling" =>
trouble breathing, gets attention.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:07:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i'm not actually having trouble breathing 

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:29:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.oss.general/8083/focus=8086

awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: work.doxory
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:35:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for PREFROSH! <geofft>

x) do actual work
y) learn about the perf command

Class: geofft Instance: work.doxory
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:36:13 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

y

Class: geofft Instance: work.doxory
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:36:18 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

learning is fun

Class: geofft Instance: work.doxory
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:36:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Okay!

Class: geofft Instance: work.doxory
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:37:11 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

y!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 17:59:09 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

itanium freebsd openafs servers should be fine. it's a user process
e.g. boring.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:00:26 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Right; it will work.  But ... he's still running itanium.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:35:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

So, uh, what is Pinboard? Do I want it?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:36:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You mean Pinterest?  Or there something even more Web 2.0-y?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

No, Pinboard.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:37:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Social Bookmarking for Introverts"

intriguing...

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Wed Aug  1 18:40:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:17:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

       Additionally,  if  the leading garbage contains a Prereq: line,
       patch takes the first word from the  prerequisites  line  (nor‐
       mally  a version number) and checks the original file to see if
       that word can be found.  If not, patch  asks  for  confirmation
       before proceeding.

Oooooh

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:21:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Oooh also, --merge

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:27:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

--merge is cool. Dunno if I think Prereq: is all that useful.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:28:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

The NOTES FOR PATCH SENDERS section is adorable.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:28:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

tl;dr: Just use git

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:28:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

It's like... advice for how to be good at version control... by and to
people who don't know it exists

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for TWINKIES! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:33:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for PILOTS! <geofft>

From BUGS: "Computing how to merge a hunk is significantly harder
than using the standard fuzzy algorithm.  Bigger hunks, more context,
a bigger offset from the original location, and a worse match all
slow the algorithm down."

Hm, I wonder if that means that --merge uses a crappy merge algorithm,
and wants a patch to use Precise Codeville.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:36:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why does diff not -u still exist?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:36:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

compatibility, scripts, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:39:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

the Codeville project is abandoned?

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:40:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

Yeah, apparently so. I think the only real thing to come out of it is
the One True Merge Algorithm.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:40:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PANDAS! <geofft>

Which git doesn't implement, and I think bzr only kind of implements.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:47:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's...really hard to get the source for this thing.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:47:37 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's...really hard to get the source for this thing.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:48:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

'apt-get source'

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:48:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

'apt-get source'

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:49:57 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm currently confused because the version that gets me appears to be
weird...

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:50:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Huh, darcs doesn't do any integrity-checking / crypto / hashes / etc.?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:51:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

loldarcs

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:51:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Huh, Junio Hamano wrote a thing called "JIT" that supported... what
sounds like a primitive version of git rebase -i?

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:54:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

..Is codeville trying to be git but written in python and using sqlite
databases?

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:54:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Sorry, berkeleydb.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:54:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for MODELS! <geofft>

I think it's trying to be more awesome than git, but yes.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:54:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for COFFEE SHOPS! <geofft>

Also for values of "trying" that use 2005-06 as the present tense

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:54:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

OK, I think I want to spend a weekend learning -- actually learning --
bzr, hg, mtn, darcs, stgit, maybe some others, and seeing how it works
out.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:55:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...why?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:55:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"Do you? Do you really?"

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:55:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PETS! <geofft>

Well, at the very least, I feel like my response when faced with
something in bzr or hg should not be "ughhhh" and I should be able to
use it well, and stgit seems actually likely to be interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:56:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Hey people on this class who used svk, how was it? Did it do things
that e.g. git-svn doesn't? How was its UI?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:56:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Oh god svk

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:56:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

er

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:56:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It was like svn but 10 times slower and in principle you could do
things offline but usually it would just break and murder your history.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:57:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Maybe it also had features?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:57:41 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: Playing billiards pays when you are in a shop.
 <rnjacobs>

Also it's been officially dropped on the floor what, 4 years ago?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:57:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Well, yeah, that too

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:58:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

geofft, stop hittign yourself. Just stop.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:58:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do people use mtn, darcs, or stgit?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 19:59:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

stgit is just git, right?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:03:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

stgit is a thing on top of git. I think people use it

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:03:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I think stgit is basically quilt implemented on top of git?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:03:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Except in principle with the ~best parts of both?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:03:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:04:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh. I wonder if packagefab wants to use stgit.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:04:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It's definitely not a crazy idea, at least in principle. I've never
used it.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:04:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Or wizard, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:04:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I think it's somewhat obviated by "rebase -i" becoming more awesome,
but only somewhat.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:06:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Aghhhh svk

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:06:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Wait, why the hell did *you* use svk?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:06:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because git didn't exist yet.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:06:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"I thought it was only people who knew the authors who ever used it"

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:06:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We used it back in 2007 or so.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:07:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Haha, ==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:07:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Wait...I'm slightly confused. Why did we say packagefab was hard? It
looks like stgit + a tool to generate .spec file fragments from a
source repo + a git .spec repo ---> packagefab

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:07:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Like my excuse is that I worked for jrv.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:08:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We read the docs and said "hey, it'd be cool not to have to spend most
of a day doing svn merges by hand, and to be able to do work on
branches!"

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:08:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This turned out to be a mistake.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:10:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I think the most positive thing I can say about svk is that that one
time our svn server ate itself, it wasn't actually svk's fault.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:10:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"that time"

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:11:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

And I think we actually used our svk clones to recover.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:12:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Were you using BDB or FSFS?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:12:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Presumably BDB, but I can't recall.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:13:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for PANDAS! <geofft>

Why is making a distributed open Facebook-competitor hard?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:14:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Erm.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:14:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Network effects?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:14:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Network effects? Federation is hard?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:14:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, people complain about privacy, but don't actually care very much.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:15:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Facebook has several billion more dollars than you do?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Clothing optional, pants mandatory. - pbaranay <wings>

Making a Facebook competitor seems hard, period.  See Google+.

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:17:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yep, it was definitely BDB.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:19:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Google+ was a) trying to be weird and b) had its own weird privacy
problems.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:19:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Google+ was a) trying to be weird and b) had its own weird privacy
problems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:21:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I'm sure there's a good reason we have an Upstart job to run swapon
instead of... a swap entry in /etc/fstab

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:21:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I'm sure there's a good reason we have an Upstart job to run swapon
instead of... a swap entry in /etc/fstab

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:21:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It let me control when it happened

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:21:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for COUGARS! <geofft>

Yeah, ran svn log, I see that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:21:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

That may or may not count as a good reason, but that's about as good
as I was expecting

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:22:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It had a measurable (though possibly trivial) effect on boot time to
not run that while everything else was running

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:22:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

It seems to me that the right answer is to push that _earlier_ in the
boot process.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:23:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Like I'd almost buy that you should swapon in the initrd

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:24:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, because almost all of the boot process is I/O bound. This is
non-critical (at least until you start an LPC), so I didn't want to
spend I/O loading swap when I could instead spend I/O loading other
things

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:35:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Loading swap takes I/O? Isn't it just basically setting up some
non-present PTEs and only gets invoked once you start having memory
pressure?

I can buy that the boot process is faster if swap is disabled for it,
but that's a slightly different claim.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:35:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for FARMERS! <geofft>

(Also I thought we didn't swap VMs, but maybe I'm confused)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:35:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why is IO still a concern at boot time? Why haven't we just made a
150MB binary blob we can just shove in memory and have it just work as
a tmpfs or soemthing.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:36:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

How do we get it into memory?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:36:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(Hint: the disk)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:36:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Also, I thought the whole premise of parallel boot is that we have
more disk IO than we used to.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:36:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

disk IO has stubbornly refused to get drastically faster over the
last two decades or so.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:36:57 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You can blockread 150MB into memory in <3 seconds. <1 second on
reasonable hardware. My claim is that 1-second boot should be
achievable.

Class: geofft Instance: pgq
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:37:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for TWINKIES! <geofft>

"lately when using Google search I've found myself nostalgic for the
old days, when Google was true to its own slightly aspy self."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Right, that's what ureadahead does.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:38:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, we do do readahead, which helps a lot. It'd be interesting to
try to mirror boot data into a linear block, but I imagine it
wouldn't help all that much compared to readahead.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:38:07 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I still don't see how that helps anything, and why we don't basically
have an uncompressed defragmented tarball-like-thing we can just shove
into memory.

Class: geofft Instance: pgq
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:38:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Actually this entire essay is pretty interesting.
http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:40:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Hm, given BM's architecture, there basically is a filesystem image I
can shove into memory. I wonder how hard it would be to get to the
point where it can be a ~preseeded tmpfs, and how much that would
improve performance

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:41:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

If disk really is your bottleneck you should be able to just have a
squashfs and call it a day.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:41:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

right, it is a squashfs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:42:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Possibly more importantly, the filesystem image isn't that huge and I
expect to use all of it by the time the system is booted and a
VM starts running, which isn't true of most conventional filesystems.
So maybe "find / -exec cat > /dev/null" isn't dumb in our use case,
where it would probably be a huge slowdown in the general case

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:43:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I'd consider a 'dd' on the device, which should still prefault the
buffer cache, but read in linear order.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:44:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... assuming you can persuade everything else to keep their grubby
hands off the device in the interim.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:44:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

... assuming you can persuade everything else to keep their grubby
hands off the device in the interim.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I am pretty sure that Linux should share the page cache between the
device and the filesystem

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I am pretty sure that Linux should share the page cache between the
device and the filesystem

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

'dd' implies there's a userland, which might have other things running
that are looking at parts of the filesystem which have not been read
yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:45:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

'dd' implies there's a userland, which might have other things running
that are looking at parts of the filesystem which have not been read
yet.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:46:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

I have enough control over the boot process as to make sure that
that's not true.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:46:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Handy, that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

For instance, I can do it in the initrd before switching to the real
init. Of course, then you get to laugh when udevd proves me wrong

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:46:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, he was proposing a 'find', so I'm not regressing from his bad
idea in that regard.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:46:39 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Right.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 20:47:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I thought udevd shut up after it scanned all the things?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  1 21:30:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Every time I think I've understood the most horrifying parts of our
codebase, I find something new

Class: geofft Instance: work.codeq
Time: Wed Aug  1 21:40:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

# Ze hacks! Zey are useful and delicious!

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:36:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

... the career fair is on Friday? And interviews are on... Saturday?

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:37:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

er, on _a_ Friday. Usually it's Thursday and Friday, right?

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

("usually" -- happens twice, sacred tradition)

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:43:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Weird. I assume you care because you'll be representing mokafive at
the career fair?

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:53:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Apparently

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:53:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I am *shocked*.

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Oh! What level are you sponsoring at?

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:56:35 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

woah I agree that's weird

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:56:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Interviews on Saturday? That's just bizarre.

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:58:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

They don't explicitly say Saturday, they just say the fair is Friday

Class: geofft Instance: career-fair
Time: Wed Aug  1 22:59:43 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

ughhh that blows

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:01:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

Why does student.mit.edu think I'm 9 units short of a bachelor's?

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:02:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Is a daring fireball a fireball that does an extra 2d8 damage?
Or a faster model of broom?

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:02:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

It's some dude's blog. I think he invented Markdown, and also hates
lots of people

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:02:52 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

He is entertaingly snarky, but something of a rabid
apple fanboy

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:06:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: But if you unplug everything, it gets so quiet you hear that high-pitched empty-room hum.  And then the whispers begin. --xkcd <eichin>

he's also famous for  "translated press releases"

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:07:42 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Kind of like Mark Pilgrim, but less lame.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:07:56 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: in parentheses... in capital letters... quotated... <eichin>

starting, I think, with http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/macrovision_translation



>>>    Well maintained and reasonably implemented DRM will increase the electronic distribution of content, not decrease it.

I am high as a kite.

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:09:11 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

<guffaw>

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:13:03 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Actually, when I say "less lame" I meant "more
there" but "less funny"

Class: geofft Instance: unrelatedly
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:14:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 6,763,370.  Issued July 13, 2004; 2nd of 6. <eichin>

http://daringfireball.net/2011/12/translation_carrier_iq
for a more recent one.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:26:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Woo, Linux is now a microkernel
https://lwn.net/Articles/509153/
https://lwn.net/Articles/474088/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:26:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Oh hey, this paper is pretty awesome:
http://invisiblethingslab.com/resources/2011/Software%20Attacks%20on%20Intel%20VT-d.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:32:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this "FUSE for devices"?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:33:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Kind of, if you mean "devices" as a replacement for "filesystems".
(This isn't "FUSE for device nodes instead of files", that exists and
is boring.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:35:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

DUSE sounds stupid :P

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:38:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, is FUSE-with-device-nodes weirder than FUSE? I'd sorta have
guessed you just, like, return a (major,minor) pair or something. I
guess that only works as root.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:39:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't think you have to implemennt all syscalls for FUSE.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:42:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, Alex, what do you mean?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:45:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

FUSE-with-device-nodes is 'CUSE' (because it's for character devices),
and it's been in mainline Linux for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:46:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

iirc, its purpose was to make emulation of the OSS API in terms of
ALSA in userspace possible.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:47:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

adehnert: when you implement a device, you have the whole shebang of
syscalls you can do. FUSE has what, read, write, stat?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:50:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, that's a different sense than I'd been thinking of.

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:50:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

/proc/self/mountinfo

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Wed Aug  1 23:51:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

And /proc/self/mountstats? Is that useful at all?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:53:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

hg incoming/outgoing seems useful.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:53:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Numbering commits seems weird.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:54:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

The concept of needing "hg up" after"hg pull" seems weird

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:55:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

But it's useful, because it means you can push into a nonbare
repositoryand avoid confusing things

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:55:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

because having more commits on thr current branch past the working
copy is perfectly normal.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 00:56:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a 1-800-FLOWERS for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

This seems to have some implications for temporarily allowing a branch
to have multiple heads (roots of the dag) until you say "hg merge"
which seems ... maybe useful?

Class: geofft Instance: patch.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:03:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am lol'ing at nelhage's representation of svk, while on caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:08:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Aww, geofft@outlook.com was already taken :(

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:09:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is it worth going and getting an outlook.com account?

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:10:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for WOMBATS! <geofft>

I mostly wanted to go for the namespace grab, but I was too late. (I
did get ldpreload@outlook.com)

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:11:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Okay, fine, I grabbed achernyas@, this looks pretty meh.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:11:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

*achernya@

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:12:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah this looks not cool.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:13:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

The other plausible use for it is playing with Exchange without
relying on e.g. MIT, although I'm not sure what it actually exposes

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:13:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

It's getting slightly confused about iceweasel, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:14:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Get yourself a real browser :P

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

==++

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:14:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

This is a real browser!

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:14:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

It just doesn't have a real name.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:14:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

No, it's an IceBrowser.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:15:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

hehe (if I had popcorn, I'd lean back and start munching on it now)

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:15:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Real browsers have Fire. Or Shiny Metal.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:15:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Wait wait Internet Explorer 5.5 for Mac is totally a real browser.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:16:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

IE is never a real browser.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:16:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

It was! For one shining moment on Mac OS 9!

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:17:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What is this thing?

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:17:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

There's IE for Mac? But... why.....

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:17:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Like why would you give a crutch to a person with perfectly
functioning legs...

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:18:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh man, I remember the days of IE{5,6} with ies4linux in WINE.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:18:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> on Mac OS 9
I can't remember if the first Mac I used was OS 8 or OS 9.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:18:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You realize there was a day before OSX, right Christy?

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:18:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

same but mac os 6 or 7

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:19:05 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You'd prefer tcshing it into submission? -mitchb <ismith>

Well, if you s/crutch/cane/, because it's hip, makes you look cool,
and won't give you cancer like cigarettes.  But none of those really
applies to IE.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:19:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

no, wait, like 3 maybe. hmm

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:19:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... IE gives cancer?

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:19:40 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

woah wikipedia's icons eem to imply I may have used OS 6

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:19:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

whatever 1994 gave me in terms of old computers in my middle school I
guess

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:20:09 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: You'll find happiness in version control... -clyde <ismith>

Stress can increase your risk factors for cancer!

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:20:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

Yeah, the alternative at that point was Netscape Navigator, which
sucked, or other random stuff like iCab

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:21:13 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Nescape didn't suck! Navigator 4 was awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:21:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

...there was? :S eek :P

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:24:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

yahoo.com doesn't have an SPF record?

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:25:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Yahoo developed DKIM, which is more or less a competitor.

Class: geofft Instance: usernames.d.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:26:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I thought you were supposed to do both these days?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:30:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_problems_solved_by_MacGyver&oldid=303962403

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:30:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Since this page is huge, why don't you just tell us why it's
interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:31:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

It's just amusing that it exists and is huge

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:31:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh. A lot smaller now-a-days. I wonder where the content went.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:32:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

The deletionists won.

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:32:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

See, it's things like this that make me sad about wikipedia. I don't
mind huge pages, but a web that is hard to navigate sucks. An fuck the
deletionists.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Huh.
https://github.com/jeffWelling/ticgit
It's a ticket-tracking system based in git, storing data in a separate
branch of your repo

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:37:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

yeah, 2008 called and wants its dreamy eyes for git back

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:38:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(: meant lovingly!

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:39:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Okay, so hg pull maps to git fetch -- fair enough, the model is
different and it makes sense to have a separate hg up command. But
then someone decides they want the equivalent of git pull (hg pull &&
hg up, and if necessary hg merge && hg commit), and implements it, in
an extension as ... hg fetch? 

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:40:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for SURGEONS! <geofft>

Also, thinking about git pull as potentially _four_ commands actually
explains why it's as weird as it is.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:41:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I thought git pull was fetch && merge, and merge was <magic> &&
commit?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:42:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

As implemented, yes, but there are three logical steps there:
- perform the merge
- commit the merge
- check out the merge

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:43:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That doesn't seem that weird? Even svn merging has "perform the merge"
and "commit the merge" steps.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:44:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

Right, svn also vaguely matches the three-step merge/commit/up
behavior. (Fetch/pull is implicit)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:44:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

It's not weird, it's just that git pull does all of those at once, and
so the cognitive load can be a bit much

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:44:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

It's not weird, it's just that git pull does all of those at once, and
so the cognitive load can be a bit much

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:06 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You don't have to svn up after you commit the merge. Except you do
because svn is stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You don't have to svn up after you commit the merge. Except you do
because svn is stupid.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

How can “check out the merge” be a separate step?  You can’t perform
a merge on a tree that isn’t already checked out, because you need to
have somewhere to resolve conflicts.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

How can “check out the merge” be a separate step?  You can’t perform
a merge on a tree that isn’t already checked out, because you need to
have somewhere to resolve conflicts.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Well, svn makes it obvious how it is :)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Well, svn makes it obvious how it is :)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:45:50 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You have to svn up for svn to notice the server +1'd the revision
count.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

Really, I guess it's not four steps in sequence, it's more
hg pull && (hg up || (hg merge && hg commit))

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:47:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for BARISTAS! <geofft>

Oh there's an hgbook.red-bean.com? kill me now

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:48:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Oh it's written by the author of Real World Haskell and uses the same
stylesheet and commenting mechanism after each paragraph? actually
kill me now

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:48:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Please tell me they just rewrote the svnbook?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:48:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

what's wrong with that?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:52:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

It kind of interrupts the flow of the book, don't you think? 0
comments.

Maybe if there were an option to turn it off, it'd be okay. 3
comments.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:56:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for PANDAS! <geofft>

Huh, \exists patchutils. I guess I was vaguely aware of interdiff, but
not of the other things in that package.

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Thu Aug  2 02:57:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

"and somehow I was also aware of espdiff"

Class: geofft Instance: patch
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:00:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Whoaaah \exists editdiff

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:23:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

I should really learn emacs

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:23:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONTENT DISTRIBUTION NETWORK for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

But it seems complicated. :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:24:02 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

Wait, I thought you used emacs.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:24:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/Oguht.jpg
"I'm on the right"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:25:21 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

woooooooo you're awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:25:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

I mean, emacs actively confuses me, so I wouldn't really say that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:26:08 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

That's because it's dumb, not because it's hard.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:29:10 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

I'm actually being semi-serious.  The very idea of vim is that
everything is an atomic action and you can express those actions in a
well-defined "language"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:29:19 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

I don't believe that you can have this in the emacs world.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:29:27 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: They say that only dogs should drink out of toilets...
 <rnjacobs>

That language is called "ed"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vinegar. <ezyang>

Then again, vim has modes, and as we all know, modes are evil.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:29:51 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

Oh boy, editor war coming up

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:00 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

Why are modes considered evil?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:06 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

Hidden state.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You hear the chimes of a modern capitalist society. <ezyang>

http://www.nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/Home.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You consume pureed cockatrice. You turn to stone... You die... <ezyang>

(he's the guy who pioneered the "no modes" movement")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of friendship. <ezyang>

though his website isn't very useful...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:30:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

vim doesn't have modes, any more than Notepad

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:31:11 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

... Um?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:31:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

You exit Notepad's insert mode and switch to command mode by hitting
Alt.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:31:45 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

... way to be disingenuous.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:31:55 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

I'm not sure why the state is hidden.  I can see the state just fine
at the bottom of my screen; arguably the only thing you have to really
remember in Vim that can be tricky is the state transitions, but there
aren't many of them.  

And doesn't barnowl have modes (contexts) in the same regard?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:32:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZIVITY for FARMERS! <geofft>

vim works the same way. "insert mode" is a lie -- it's another
command, that you terminate by hitting Esc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:33:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

People don't talk about "command mode" in Notepad as a thing you enter
by hitting Alt, and dally around in, and then transfer to "insert
mode" by hitting Esc or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:37:00 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

I think fundamentally, the atomicity of vim is what really attracted
me to it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:37:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You hear a crunching sound. You hear a voice say "Crunch-a-tize!" <ezyang>

Vim benefits from showing the mode on the bottom left, and letting you
"escape" by mashing ESC sufficiently many times.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:37:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You hear the chimes of a modern capitalist society. <ezyang>

Man, emacs doesn't even fulfill that property.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Can't you hit C-g enough times?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:37:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

I mean, okay, displaying the mode in the bottom-left corner is
somewhat useful, but I rarely find myself paying attention to it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:38:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ASYNCHRONOUS LAYER for BEER! <geofft>

If I stop typing, I hit Esc instinctively. If I want to start typing
again, I can hit i

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:38:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Only the foreground Notepad is allowed to be in a mode, while both
foreground and background vis can be in modes, so using many vis
forces you to keep track of more state.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:38:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(Or a vi and an icebrowser, or whatever.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:39:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Right, which is why I clear the state before switching to some other
vi or icebrowser

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:39:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Staying in insert mode while doing something else is like leaving
bash in C-r mode or with an unbalanced quote and a newline while
doing something else

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:40:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Alternatively, hit Esc when you get back to vi, just as you'd hit C-c
when you get back to bash if you think it might be in a funky state.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:41:25 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

My internal sense of editor state matches it almost exactly because I
have become comfortable with the environment.  I can see how at the
beginning it may be hard to internalize the state transitions, but I
think that the acclimation period is more comfortable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:41:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

er, for vim, there's also visual mode

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:41:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for COUGARS! <geofft>

Right. That actually _is_ a mode.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

hitting "i" there will get you nowhere

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:41:51 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

There was this really coo state transition diagram, but I can't seem
to find it anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Hitting Esc there works, though

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for PILOTS! <geofft>

Relatedly, somehow I seem to have gotten in the habit of using C-c
instead of Esc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:23 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

That's because i has no context in a visual selection mode.

(But other insert commands do)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

(I use both vim and emacs, because reasons)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a spellbook of advanced differential equations. <ezyang>

vim is self described as a modal editor...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:42:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Most self descriptions are wrong.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:43:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Whoever wrote that probably had been using vim for maybe a week. He
didn't know anything about vim

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:45:02 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

http://darkpan.com/files/vim.svg

It was kind of like a cleaner, more useful version of that which
highlighted the most important transitions (most of those are rarely
used by even power users)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:45:02 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

http://darkpan.com/files/vim.svg

It was kind of like a cleaner, more useful version of that which
highlighted the most important transitions (most of those are rarely
used by even power users)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:46:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

most are rarely used? I don't think I'm a power user, and most of the
modes get used.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:46:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

most are rarely used? I don't think I'm a power user, and most of the
modes get used.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:46:55 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

You use virtual replace?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:47:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of INTEL IA-32 MANUAL. <ezyang>

is that 'R'?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You hear the chimes of a modern capitalist society. <ezyang>

I use it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:47:19 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

gR

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:48:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

that and operator pending seem like the only ones I don't use.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:48:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

ex

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:48:50 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

R is different.

From the manual: Virtual Replace mode is similar to Replace mode, but
instead of replacing actual characters in the file, you are replacing
screen real estate, so that characters further on in the file never
appear to move.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:49:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

everything else (the "most") are used pretty much every time I edit a
file for more then a few minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:49:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for WOMBATS! <geofft>

Ooh, that sounds pretty useful.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:50:03 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

that's pretty good then, acrefoot.  I basically never use any of the
select modes or the insert visual/insert select modes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:51:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

but I'm not fancy enough to do things like "select next 4 words"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:51:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for PILOTS! <geofft>

Man, select mode sounds so useless.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:51:29 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

I make heavy use of easymotion

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:51:48 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

https://github.com/Lokaltog/vim-easymotion/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:52:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

Also, Insert Foo just seems to be parameterizing over the Foo mode, so
I'd just call that a combination of Foo and Insert

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:54:28 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Apparently being at MIT in a scooter is like being in a developing country? -danjared <ismith>

What is this "Esc" you speak of?  ^[ 4 lyf.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:54:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

I should learn to use that, but C-c is so much easier

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:55:01 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: Does this count as "free as in puppy"? <ismith>

Oh, tat also works for escape?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Thu Aug  2 03:55:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

easymotion: "sounds like another mode"

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Aug  2 13:30:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

"I will call you tomorrow at the time specified as today The time would
be overlapping with another call."

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Aug  2 13:31:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Oh, I see the parse. OK.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Thu Aug  2 13:31:26 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: As opposed to neon-ecru-philia, the love of glowing beige things. -geofft <ismith>

"So call me maybe.  Yrs, [signature]"

Class: geofft Instance: getting-to-work
Time: Thu Aug  2 14:04:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for SURGEONS! <geofft>

oops

Class: geofft Instance: getting-to-work
Time: Thu Aug  2 14:04:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Maybe I should just go find a cafe near the station andwait for the
next train

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug  2 15:19:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GROUPON for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

subscribing to upstart-devel was the wrong answer

Class: geofft Instance: qemu
Time: Thu Aug  2 15:33:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Really guys, of all the fascinating vulnerabilities available to you,
you go have a tempfile symlink attack?? You can do better...
(CVE-2012-2652)

Class: geofft Instance: qemu Opcode: auto
Time: Thu Aug  2 15:33:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2012-2652 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

CVE ticket CVE-2012-2652: [RHBZ] CVE-2012-2652 qemu: vulnerable to temporary file symlink attacks

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 17:14:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

http://www.selenic.com/pipermail/mercurial/2009-January/023271.html

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 17:15:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

I think this convinces me that reflogs should be first class.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 17:21:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, I think reflogs should probably be more first-class than they
are, at least optionally.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug  2 17:21:18 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, I think reflogs should probably be more first-class than they
are, at least optionally.

Class: geofft Instance: btc
Time: Thu Aug  2 18:43:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

$10!

Class: geofft Instance: btc
Time: Thu Aug  2 18:44:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Pushing 11!

Class: geofft Instance: btc
Time: Thu Aug  2 18:45:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

https://mtgox.com/ believes it briefly hit it, in fact.

Class: geofft Instance: btc
Time: Thu Aug  2 18:46:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

Bets on when it'll beat Facebook?

Class: geofft Instance: btc.d
Time: Thu Aug  2 18:48:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

How many BTC are in circulation at this point? What does this make
for a market cap?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:31:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for WOMBATS! <geofft>

noooo out of disk space

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:31:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

"I blame svn"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:37:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Convert to btrfs and reflink everything in .svn/pristine?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:37:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Use the "scord" fuse filesystem!!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:37:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I used to do this when my music was in svn.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Low-level reformat your hard drive with a thinner track width?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:39:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

reflinks are really tempting, since the thing is I want like five or
six checkouts of branches

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:40:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

trunk, dev, customer, current release branch, previous
release branch...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:41:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

NFS-mount your filesystem from a tmpfs on a virtual machine running
ksmd?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:42:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Wow, "scord", awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:45:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Anders: .... Wow..

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:45:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You can even avoid wasting RAM by using something that backs VM RAM
with a file on disk (... maybe I'm remembering UML?).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:45:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You can even avoid wasting RAM by using something that backs VM RAM
with a file on disk (... maybe I'm remembering UML?).

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:48:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Both VMware and kvm support that. I think VMware out of the box, and
kvm with -mem-path

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:48:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

Both VMware and kvm support that. I think VMware out of the box, and
kvm with -mem-path

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 19:51:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

http://www.kernelcrash.com/blog/vmware-player-performance/2009/06/14/
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/06/how-to-install-vmware-server-2-on-linux/#comment-50514

Yes, I coincidentally happened to have these tabs open

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Thu Aug  2 20:50:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

"and will damage the /dev/null node if you configure your virtual
machine this way"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:16:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for TRAVELING! <geofft>

running around playing "Bad Romance" on as many machines as possible

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:17:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

I swear this is related to an actual customer issue

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:17:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: What's wrong with me? You put salt on your melons! - kdrinkwa <wings>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:18:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

salmon-of-wisdom:~/src/player-baremetal/src gthomas$ socat TCP-LISTEN:12345,reuseaddr,fork OPEN:/tmp/bad-romance.wav,rdonly

Now I can go to any machine on the LAN and 'nc salmon-of-wisdom 12345
| aplay'

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:19:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

geofft, why?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:19:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

"because ALSA sucks"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:19:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

"because ALSA sucks"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:20:07 2012 Host: TEAM-ROCKET.MIT.EDU
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Are you trying to reproduce something?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:21:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for TRAVELING! <geofft>

Coworker who last touched our volume-control code wandered in. I told
him how I was testing his code, his response "I feel a sudden urge to
leave the office now"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  2 22:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(stark) geofft++ re: Bad Romance

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:04:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"Applications running locally on the platform communicate with Intel
AMT Release 2.0 and later releases in the same way that network
applications do – via SOAP over HTTP (deprecated starting with
Release 6.0) or with WS-Management over SOAP over HTTP. As shown in
the figure below, when a local application sends a message addressed
to the local Intel AMT host name, the Local Manageability Service
(LMS), which listens for traffic directed to the host name,
intercepts the message and routes it to the Intel Management Engine
Interface."

wut

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:07:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yup. The thing's got a SOAP implementation that spies on all your
Ethernet traffic, at on-wire speeds. pwnable? probably.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:09:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEAL FINDER for BEER! <geofft>

I've managed to confuse everyone in SIPB by configuring one of our
boxes with AMT to respond to pings:

PING LOLA-GRANOLA.mit.edu (18.187.1.76) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=1 ttl=63 time=0.233 ms
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=1 ttl=254 time=0.840 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=2 ttl=63 time=0.258 ms
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=2 ttl=254 time=0.818 ms (DUP!)
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=3 ttl=63 time=0.176 ms
64 bytes from LOLA-GRANOLA.MIT.EDU (18.187.1.76): icmp_req=3 ttl=254 time=0.755 ms (DUP!)

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:11:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why did you do that?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:11:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LANDING PAGE for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

For the lulz

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:14:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for FARMERS! <geofft>

I think I enabled serial-over-LAN for it, picking a password that I
shared with someone (sipb-staff?) at the time

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

For LOL-GRANOLA I guess it's cereal-over-LAN

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Hey geofft want to reprogram the AMT on my Sun Ultra 24 to actually
work?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Not really?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

LOLA-GRANOLA but the point stands

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Aww.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:15:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Ooh, you get a /dev/mei on Linux.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:23:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It's really interesting that the TTLs are different! re: double ping
replies

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:27:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Well, they're different stacks. Some stacks reset the TTL on ping
reply, sometimes to different things; some just keep it where it is.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:27:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

See TTL DETAILS in the ping manpage

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:32:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/327825

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:49:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for MODELS! <geofft>

-> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  2 23:49:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAC APP for MODELS! <geofft>

-> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:15:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

feel free to hang out at dna if you like; am still laptopping here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:15:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

feel free to hang out at dna if you like; am still laptopping here

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:17:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

oh, hey, alternately swing by here en route home, and I'll bike home
with you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:17:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

oh, hey, alternately swing by here en route home, and I'll bike home
with you.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:43:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

ok

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 00:59:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

when does your train arrive?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 01:01:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

like a minute

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 01:01:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

so be it

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 02:45:27 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... does it say *how* /dev/null can get damaged?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:13:29 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

>  WS-Management over SOAP over HTTP

That sounds cooler as " WS-Management over SOAP over HTTP over TCP
over IP over Ethernet." Come on. They left out a few protocols.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:17:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

IPoE sounds sweet

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:28:45 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(IPoE is most IP, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:32:11 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: Leprechauns hide their gold in a secret room.
 <rnjacobs>

PPP and ... what's the other thing I'm thinking of?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:32:27 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

well, anyway, main exceptions.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(yes, it just sounds cooler that way)

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:39:49 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

SLIP?

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:40:02 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Alternatively "wi-fi" and "{3,4}G"?

Class: geofft Instance: amt.ttants
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:41:07 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I was all, like, 'am I my brother's postdoc?' -pbaranay <ismith>

SLIP (whatever adehnert meant)
SLIP (Sign Language over IP [no, not a real thing])

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:41:09 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I guess those are Ethernet, just not over Ethernet *cables*?)

Class: geofft Instance: amt.ttants
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:41:21 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"You mean Youtube?"

Class: geofft Instance: amt.ttants
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:41:37 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: 'Yes: malloc().' 'And its nicer cousin, beneoc().' -oremanj, pbaranay <ismith>

I was actually thinking of videophones, but that works too.

Class: geofft Instance: amt.ttants
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:41:47 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: it starts with an evil-looking smiley and takes down your system :p -rnjacobs <ismith>

(Videophones by analogy with VOIP.)

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:42:23 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

No, SLIP (and CSLIP) are just encapsulations of IP.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:43:08 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: They say that a shaman will bless you for an eye of newt and wing of bat.
 <rnjacobs>

There's definitely not any ethernet involved. I hope.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:43:08 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: They say that a shaman will bless you for an eye of newt and wing of bat.
 <rnjacobs>

There's definitely not any ethernet involved. I hope.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:43:47 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: It's an altar to the horse god.
 <rnjacobs>

.... er, I guess that's s/No/Yes/

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 03:44:37 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: I like air travel. Breakfast in New York,
dinner in London, luggage in Brazil. - fortune
 <rnjacobs>

So, PPPoE gets you internet without IP but with ethernet, and SLIP gets you IP
without ethernet, so mission accomplished or something.

Class: geofft Instance: amt
Time: Fri Aug  3 11:48:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) I want to dig this thing out of my laptop with a *spoon*.
Guh. I knew it was terrible, but I didn't know it was /this/ terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 11:58:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for BEER! <geofft>

No.

I assume what'&s going on is an unlink/create, but I find the concept
of damaging /dev/null without destroying it (as that phrase implies
amusing

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 11:59:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"/dev/null may not actually discard all data written to it"

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 11:59:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Actually, I bet it would be vaguely entertaining to replace /dev/null
with a character device that just logged everything that goes to it.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 11:59:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(I think you don't just want a file because you want '< /dev/null' to
have the same behavior)

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.kb.q
Time: Fri Aug  3 12:00:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"now you're talking like the wipe(1) manpage"

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:22:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

"The S.E.C. has recently moved in this direction by contracting with a
high-speed trading firm that will provide it with more up-to-date
market information."

I can't tell whether this is a brilliant idea or a terrible idea

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:22:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It depends a lot on who they contracted with.

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:23:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

"Was it you?"

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:23:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Not hiring Accenture Federal Contractors to build them a
custom system is a good idea. But if they turned around and
hired Interactive Data, then that would be a terrible idea
too.

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:23:52 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It was not us. Some partners of ours were bidding on that,
but I haven't tracked it.

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:26:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

"But Representative DeFazio, who favors a levy of three-hundredths of
a percentage point on each trade, sayshe thinks the benefits of
high-frequency trading are overrated. 'Some people say it's necessary
for liquidity, but somehow we built the strongest industrial nation
on earth without algorithmic trading.'"

Dear Rep. DeFazio, you do realize that argument holds about the
Internet too, right?

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:28:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

We also built it without retail investors and 401ks and
shit.

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:30:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

I don't understand how the SEC ahsn't already gotten that info.

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:30:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

I suppose that using it effectively is a slightly non-trivial system,
but...

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:32:10 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Does the SEC get the quotes or cancels, or do they only get
the trades?

Class: geofft Instance: nytq
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:32:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

I have no idea. "But I wouldn't be shocked if they rely heavily on CQS
and UQDF"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:41:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Some guy is carrying a plastic broomstick with half a baguette on the
end

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Aug  3 13:42:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

(instead of a broom head)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Fri Aug  3 14:09:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

yay re: baguettestick

Class: geofft Instance: old-spice
Time: Fri Aug  3 14:15:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for BILLIONAIRES! <geofft>

Apparently the French translation of "smellf-respect" is "un peu
d'egosenteur"

Class: geofft Instance: old-spice
Time: Fri Aug  3 14:53:01 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

... smellf-respect? Really?

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:10:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Upstart just seems like a dumb idea

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:10:56 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

How so?

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:11:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Well, I just got to this part in the Cookbook:
http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#block-another-job-until-yours-has-started

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:12:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Oooh, there's an initctl2dot

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:12:29 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's not uncommon for a program to have an insufficiently expressive
model to handle all of its use cases elegantly.  Does systemd do this
better?

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:13:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Quite doubtful.

Class: geofft Instance: upstart
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:13:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SHOPPING SITE for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

But there are a couple of other things in upstart that imply that
they _could_ have made the model more expressive, but just decided to
go with the model they could think of and call it done

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:46:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Holy WTF, there's an app that costs $140? And it actually has 25
_reviews_?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Clover And Boys Run <kchen>

What is it?  (Randomly guessing: GPS navigation?)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Clover And Boys Run <kchen>

What is it?  (Randomly guessing: GPS navigation?)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Is it for pilots? Or for children with learning disabilities?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:46:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "We eat the best parts of you. The @b{living} parts. Feel it? Right there?" <mherdeg>

Is it for pilots? Or for children with learning disabilities?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:47:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

TeamViewer Pro HD for Remote Control

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:47:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

TeamViewer Pro HD for Remote Control

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:48:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Oh, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:48:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not called the wheel. It's called the carousel <mherdeg>

Oh, I see.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:48:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Fenway. <stum>

teamviewer is the shit, and so i'm imagining it's for their commerical
customers.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Fri Aug  3 16:48:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:05:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for PILOTS! <geofft>

Dear VMware Tech Support: The issue is not that I need to upgrade my
video card's drivers

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:06:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

"and yes, I have tried turning my monitor off and on again"

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:06:46 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you *still* on the call?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:07:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANTI-CENTOS CAMPAIGN for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:08:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

With some guy named Rodriguez whose timezone is Mumbai and who has a
thick Indian accent

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:11:02 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. I don't see him in the directory. <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:12:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Rodrigues, sorry.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:32:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

commit 2a962cc65cdba010177f27e8824ba10d9a799a08
Author: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>
Date:   Sat Jul 28 12:21:22 2012 -0400

    switch default desktop task to xfce

    This ensures that the desktop will fit on CD#1, which gnome currently does not.

    There may be other reasons to prefer xfce as the default as well, but that
    is a complex and subjective topic. Unfortunatly, Debian does not have a
    well-defined procedure for making such choices, though it certianly has
    well-defined procedures for reviewing them. So, I've decided to be bold,
    and continue the tradition of making an arbitrary desktop selection for
    Debian in tasksel.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:32:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh boy.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:33:12 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

\ldots

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:33:24 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:33:40 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: The Internet and Real Life are neighboring countries with a brutally-efficient extradition treaty. -kevinr <ismith>

*buys popcorn futures*

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:33:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Isn't Joey already recently bruised from fighting with the tech-ctte?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:34:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He won that one, didn't he?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:34:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

He won that one, didn't he?

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:34:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for COUGARS! <geofft>

Did he? I missed that fight

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:34:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

xfce is the default for HURD and kFreeBSD, since the GNOME team are
too stuck up to try to be compatible.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:36:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have a hard time taking anything in the first clause of that
sentence seriously.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.this-can-only-end-well
Time: Fri Aug  3 17:37:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

So do I, but supposedly the release team is inclined to have unity of
experience over main-tier (?) arches, which IIRC includes kFreeBSD and
not HURD.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:22:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

hm, oops, this `diff` command is using 4G virt.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:22:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

hm, oops, this `diff` command is using 4G virt.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:22:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for HUNTERS! <geofft>

make that 6-7G. and 5G resident.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:24:04 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh. What are you diffing?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:29:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Two ISOs <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 18:29:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

Well, the hexdumps thereof <_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:03:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

I want anonymous functions

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:04:25 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Have you considered LISP? Or Python?

Class: geofft Instance: bash
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:04:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Both suck for running programs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:28:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Fascinating. The management server _was_ corrupting BareMetal
installer downloads

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:28:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Fascinating. The management server _was_ corrupting BareMetal
installer downloads

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:28:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

That was not the problem I was hoping to debug today!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:36:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

How did that happen?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 19:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

We're not sure, and I'm passing the issue off to server team at this
point, but "by zeroing about 30 megabytes of data"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:00:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

That's our reaction too

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:31:00 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How big is the server team?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:32:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Uh, four or five people?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:41:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

aaaagh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:41:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

it's the engrish coder. No wonder this doesn't work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:42:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

/**
 * Try the best to support streaming & customization as well as sub components to the client.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:43:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

/**
 * Build the ISO installation, save the customization at offset & zero out all the byte.

... "Well consider not zeroing out all the byte"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:43:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

"I found the bug guys"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:44:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

I laughed out loud.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:54:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am laughing out loud at the moment!

Class: geofft Instance: work.unrelatedly
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:55:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

DAMMIT EVERY GRAPHICS CARD MAKER WHO IS NOT INTEL

Class: geofft Instance: work.unrelatedly
Time: Fri Aug  3 20:55:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

DIE IN A FIRE

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug  3 21:39:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for PILOTS! <geofft>

-> Caltrain with an extra laptop to debug over the weekend. Joy.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug  3 21:39:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Ugh it happened _again_ and differently

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:11:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

My Timbuk2 is only barely big enough to hold two laptops, an iPad, and
some stuff from Target

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:13:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

The way that the mountains to the west of SF hold backthe weather is
fascinating

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

In the last two minutes on Caltrain it went from overly sunny to
overcast low thhck grey clouds

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

In the last two minutes on Caltrain it went from overly sunny to
overcast low thhck grey clouds

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:14:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

it's overcast here :(

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:14:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Still sunny to the right of the train, over the Bay itself.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:15:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

But the sun's to the west.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

It's still quite sunny in Mountain View.

Class: geofft Instance: wx
Time: Fri Aug  3 22:20:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yuri Lin <rye>

It's still quite sunny in Mountain View.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 05:42:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Wah. Biking home a bit ago, I took a right turn at speed... the road
to the right of me had a car stopped in the left lane, so an oncoming
black car moved to the right lane to pass it, and was also at speed.
I turned more sharply to qvoid it, and my back wheel slipped/skidded.
Maintained balance and motion, though.... I was surprised that
basically worked.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 05:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for PILOTS! <geofft>

Anyway, I'm happy I now have good brakes, even if I can't quite use
them at their fullest without worrying about throwing myself over the
bike. It's better than not being able to have that worry though :)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 05:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for PILOTS! <geofft>

Anyway, I'm happy I now have good brakes, even if I can't quite use
them at their fullest without worrying about throwing myself over the
bike. It's better than not being able to have that worry though :)

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 13:17:18 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: It's a rim shot. Ba-da-boom!
 <rnjacobs>

(stark) So there is this interesting point made by ... some big pro-bicycling
person ... that you should be default always use the front brake so that you
know how it reacts and how to use it safely. Otherwise, when you're in a
context where you might panic, you might overapply it, and @i{then} throw
yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 14:28:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I'm pretty convinced that, with proper form, you have to worry about
skidding long before you have to worry about being thrown.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 16:38:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Huh, apparently every zone is free on weekends if you have a monthly
pass. Convenient

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 16:39:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Proper form" is quite a cop-out.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 16:39:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Proper form" is quite a cop-out.

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 16:40:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

Also, because my waist is not in proper form, I get to worry about
momentum.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug  4 16:49:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

ugh I am an IDIOT

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Sat Aug  4 17:04:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANDATORY DINING for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

geez stop kernel panicking I have work to do

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug  4 17:09:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug  4 17:09:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug  4 17:10:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

I figured out why this bug got reintroduced...because I reintroduced
it. Now to revert it before Monday

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug  4 17:10:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

I figured out why this bug got reintroduced...because I reintroduced
it. Now to revert it before Monday

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:46:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://caltrainhacks.tumblr.com/

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:47:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

404

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:47:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

404

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:48:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But you should start it!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:48:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But you should start it!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:48:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

Some good stuff at
http://www.quora.com/Caltrain/What-are-the-best-Caltrain-hacks

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:48:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

Oh, in fact "every zone is free on weekends if you have a monthly
pass" is #2 on that list

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:51:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Kegs are OK!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 18:53:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Quora: The comprehensive guide to living in the Bay Area and working
at a startup"

Class: geofft Instance: bike
Time: Sat Aug  4 20:16:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

By "proper form" I just mean "make sure you're not leaning forward over
the handlebars when you brake".

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 22:23:47 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        http://www.quora.com/Caltrain/What-are-the-best-Caltrain-hacks
  
good to see matt laroche is still around

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Sat Aug  4 22:23:47 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        http://www.quora.com/Caltrain/What-are-the-best-Caltrain-hacks
  
good to see matt laroche is still around

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Sun Aug  5 02:42:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

fsf-collab-discuss@lists.alioth.debian.org is being exactly as
jingoistic and acerbic as you would expect from the name.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  5 02:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FMYLIFE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

where did all my free time go. why am I hosed? I'm no longer a student
this isn't supposed to happen :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  5 03:00:10 2012 Host: XVM-124.MIT.EDU
From: I am become ismith, destroyer of drywall. -geofft <ismith>

=======

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  5 03:01:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

Like I have maybe two hours of work to do this weekend (mostly run
two svn commands and deal with the merge conflicts and see if the
result compiles), and I don't actually have two hours free, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Sun Aug  5 03:08:07 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, you spent most of the day hanging out...

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Sun Aug  5 11:55:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Ugh, I had some incredibly unsettling dreams, too unsettling to even
discuss.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Sun Aug  5 11:55:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

Ugh, I had some incredibly unsettling dreams, too unsettling to even
discuss.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Sun Aug  5 11:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I bet I blame starting _A Clockwork Orange_ yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Sun Aug  5 11:55:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ONLINE MARKETPLACE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I bet I blame starting _A Clockwork Orange_ yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: dreams
Time: Sun Aug  5 11:56:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

(Except for the bit where I was almost thrown out of a Chik-Fil-A for
looking gay.)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Aug  5 12:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Passed a little gas station thing labeled "Hall of Justice Service
Station"

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Aug  5 12:02:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Which is an even better name than "Hall of Justice", if that's
possible.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Aug  5 16:20:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

What are you up to today?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Aug  5 16:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Oh man, that looks legit!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/plainsight/2180415079/

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Sun Aug  5 16:28:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 128 grammes of bituminous coal . . . <mherdeg>

Oh man, that looks legit!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/plainsight/2180415079/

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:34:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

What just happened to Mars?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:34:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A sociopath asking a sociopath for advice doesn't work. - lexrj <wings>

We sent a thing there and it worked

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:34:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

Also, why am I on random-summer???

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:34:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

with a really complicated landing

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:35:16 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

There'll be nothing to stop us this time.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Sure. I thought we did that every few years?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:35:42 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Schrodinger's cat paradox outlines a situation in which a cat in a box must be considered, for all intents and purposes, simultaneously alive and dead. Schrodinger created this paradox as a justification for killing cats. <asedeno>

If you haven't seen the curiosity landing simulation video, watch it now.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:36:28 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

This one is bigger, more complicated, and had a frankly
baroque landing system

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:36:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

meh, I'm going to sleep

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:36:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, you hit his ovary with my sperm? - shawest <wings>

It should not have worked

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:38:16 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The atomic weight of Germanium is seven two point six four. <asedeno>

It involves a sky crane.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Aug  6 01:38:28 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Mr. Boat <neboat>

i,i "I can't believe that just happened"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug  6 13:29:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

I miss lerman.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:12:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

Hm, egg and lox is not really that interesting. You can't taste the
lox over the egg.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:13:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Then you need better eggs.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:17:10 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I've definitely had lox omeletes before and had that work well...

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:17:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Maybe it needs either more or better lox.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, you forgot onions.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

People eat salmon for breakfast? What are you, from Japan?
(I just looked up lox)

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

or a new yorker

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Smoked or pickled fish for breakfast is a classically Eastern European
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:55 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

or a jew

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:18:57 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

or Germany.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:19:11 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Or Nordic

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:19:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> classically Eastern European
TIL I suck at my ethnicity

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:19:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

Salmon for breakfast is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:19:46 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

smoked salmon is hella tasty.  You should fix that part.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:19:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

This had onions.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:20:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have yet to meet a smoked fish that was /not/ hella tasty.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:20:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Salmon and I rarely get along...

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:20:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Bad ideas, partial list: setting my zsig to the EICAR string so that
everyone's anti-virus scanner trips up on their zlogs

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:20:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Conforms to government standards relating to children's toys <yoz>

Smoked trout is also highly recommendable.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:20:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

salmon is best raw

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:21:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

or smoked

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:21:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

which is... close.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:21:52 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

hmm, I wonder if there's a decent bagel place here
in burlington

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:22:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I could believe raw. I've only had (a lot of) tuna raw, though.
Usually I eat salmon in small quantities because I have a bad memory
of it or something.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:22:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have yet to find decent bagels in the Boston area.

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:22:22 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

s/decent/half-decent/ for all the new yorkers out there

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:22:42 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: They say that if you sleep with a demon you might awake with a headache.
 <rnjacobs>

Salmon is the best food when you're in Seattle :p

Class: geofft Instance: breakfast.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:24:07 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

google says: dunkin donuts!  So no.

Class: geofft Instance: backwards-juxta
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:25:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  2012-08-06 11:24  (putting out fire with gasoline)
    no, no it's not.
cslink / geofft / kcr  2012-08-06 11:24  (nothing to see here)
    Even a bad lox bagel sandwich is better than nothing.

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:35:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

naming the striped CoW structure "zebra" is still hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:36:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

I really want application-layer mosh

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:36:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

e.g., I run "less" and it sends me the whole file. or I run vi and it
runs locally, or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:37:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...so you really want moshfs?

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:37:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Somewhat

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:37:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

What I _really_ want is mosh for Cisco VPN.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:37:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oh man, and it could even do torrent-style filling in the blocks.

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 14:38:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Which I think you can do if you implement NAT-busting

Class: geofft Instance: #vmware
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:01:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CLOUD STORAGE PROVIDER for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Dude, you are not using "VMware Virtualbox". No matter how much you
think you are.

Class: geofft Instance: #vmware
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:01:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Haha

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:06:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Not sure if bash array...
or someone just left the $ out of $(...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:08:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for PANDAS! <geofft>

Oh hey, I'm doing the stressed-therefore-punting thing

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:08:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WORDPRESS for TEXTBOOKS! <geofft>

http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-07/msg00522.html

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:11:00 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

damnit fsf

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:11:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wait, what?

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:11:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPENTABLE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

The GCC runtime library is not GPLv2-compatible, which means that,
like other GPLv2-incompatible libraries like OpenSSL, you cannot
distribute programs linked against it as part of a distro.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:12:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

The GPLv2 permits linking against non-GPLv2 OS libraries, but this is
generally accepted not to apply when the program itself is
distributed as part of the OS (which is why you can have a GPLv2
program that links against MS' crypto libraries)

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:12:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

This is a violation of the GPLv2 on the program itself, not of the
library's license. (You can work around it with the OpenSSL-style "As
a special exception".)

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:13:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GAME-BASED INCENTIVE for TRAVELING! <geofft>

I think Ubuntu was also running into the fact that gnutls is now
LGPLv3, which means that just like OpenSSL it's unlinkable with GPLv2
programs.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:13:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

So they're considering not taking the new upstream release.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:13:37 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

i,i "it's a sad day when even free software needs to be pirated."

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:13:53 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

It's almost like the GPLv3 isn't a free software license in a world
containing the GPLv2.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:13:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If any of this makes my life harder, I'm giving up and investing all
my time an effort into WinAthena.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for HUNTERS! <geofft>

We'll sell you WinAthena

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:14:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

WinAthena is not going to make your life easier...

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:14:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

But this thread is from 2009?

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:14:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Oh huh, didn't notice.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:15:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

(it showed up on #debian-devel)

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:16:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

++ EICAR

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:16:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i'm curious what's happened since then

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:17:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What exactly is the gcc runtime library? I know there's libstdc++ but
I thought was distributed under exception?

Class: geofft Instance: mosh
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:18:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

So Emacs M-x shell sometimes seems to do this for me. It seems to
sometimes integrate awesomely with trmap.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:19:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

libgcc, which contains implementations of various runtime code that
GCC needs, such as 64-bit math on 32-bit platforms and other random
crap

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:20:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

libgcc1

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

er, ==nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:20:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Did not know gcc needs 64-bit math on 32-bit platforms. What does it
use it for?

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:21:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

There's a license exception, but the problem is that while the
exception means that linking

(GPLv2-only app A) with (libgcc.a)

is fine from libgcc's perspective, from the perspective of app A, it
is being combined with code under a non-GPL-compatible license and
distributed, which is not OK by the GPL.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:21:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

GCC links everything you link with GCC against libgcc. There's a lot
of random crap in there, see

objdump -t `gcc -print-libgcc-file-name`

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:22:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

'unsigned long long'

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:23:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Eh, there's stuff like bswap in there?!

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:23:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

The GCC/libc boundary is much less sharp than you may have been lead
to believe.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:25:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

mmap mprotect wat

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:25:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

random pieces of pthread? How does this even

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:25:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for ERLANG ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

ha

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:25:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMBER ALERT SYSTEM for UGG BOOTS! <geofft>

Nelson, you scared him :(

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:26:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

He was bound to learn the truth eventually. It's kinder this way, in
the end.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:26:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm not scared, I'm just wtfing.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:26:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

> I'm not scared

"you will be"

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:27:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Anyway, how is the right answer to this *not* give up and use clang?

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:27:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

http://clang.debian.net/

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:27:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Oh I see, you hate FREEDOM.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:27:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

paultag and some GSoC folks are working on it, apparently. (==you, so
I asked)

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:28:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

oftc / #debian-devel / jwilk  2012-08-06 12:27 (jwilk!~jwilk@1-dom-5.acn.waw.pl)
    And today I learned that bison output is nowadays licensed as GPLv3+ (with an exception). Fun.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:28:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Didn't you get the memo? clang is an evil conspiracy by Apple to take
our freedom away from us.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:28:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why yes, I do hate FREEDOM. I prefer freedom.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:29:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Wow, clang builds a lot of stuff. It looks like a transition soonish
is feasible.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:29:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

FreeBSD is looking to switch to clang as default compiler in its next
major release.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:30:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

I mean, clang builds everything you get on OS X. Which isn't really a
lot of stuff, but is a usable non-GNU UNIX userspace.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:30:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I was aware FreeBSD is switching; OS X being compiled by clang is
unsurprising, they have paid developers that intended to do that.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:31:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, there-is-no-cabal aside, I don't think FreeBSD has actually
*decided* to do so, it is just looking likely.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:32:14 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you still need gcc for the kernel, right?  (also things like, well,
android)

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:32:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Android doesn't have that many non-kernel C components. It should be
pretty doable to make it clang-able.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:32:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

There are people working on the kernel; There are experimental
patchsets, but it's not quite there yet.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:35:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

not that many non-kernel c components?  i mean, theres the whole qemu
emulator bit, as well as all the aother android specific things like
audioflinger... not to mention can dalvik be built with clang?

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:36:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I bet Dalvik builds with clang, or is at least close

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:36:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

clang is really remarkably mature

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:36:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

huh.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:37:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Oh, is Dalvik C++? That might be trickier, although I bet it's still
close.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:38:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm pretty sure Dalvik is C.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:38:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

https://android.googlesource.com/platform/dalvik/+/464388e8756d362f91d110b5741ba785ea3d44bd/vm/ says otherwise

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:38:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yeah, I just looked at that.

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:39:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

And google definitely has manpower internally devoted to getting all
of their code building with clang

Class: geofft Instance: dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:40:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(Last I heard they used clang for its diagnostics and still use GCC
for the actual binaries, but that at least means they're working on
it.)

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:41:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL CRM for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Oops, I think I have actually lost weight.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:43:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I wonder if wearing a belt with a T-shirt and shorts is dumb. It
sounds like less effort than buying new shorts

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:44:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Belts are useful.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

Seems fine to me as a stop-gap measure.  I'd rather my shorts fit than
have to deal with a belt all the time.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:44:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If your shorts have beltloops, that seems fine.

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:57:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for PREFROSH! <geofft>

Right ==kchen

Class: geofft Instance: pants
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:57:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I ~haven't worn pants without a belt in years, so *shrug*.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:58:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I kind of wonder whether it would be a net win or net loss to society
if looking for other jobs were more open than it is.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:58:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

I assume "everyone's salaries are public" is a prereq, but maybe it
isn't.

Class: geofft Instance: github.mq
Time: Mon Aug  6 15:59:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEURAL NETWORK for PANDAS! <geofft>

"We're sending you this email because we love you. Also, the amount
of email you receive from GitHub notifications is going to change and
we want to make sure you don't miss anything important."

Class: geofft Instance: #debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug  6 16:04:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/01/msg00140.html

++++

Class: geofft Instance: #debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug  6 16:18:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Why are you reading 2 year old mail?

Class: geofft Instance: #debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug  6 16:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

people are linking to it

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Aug  6 16:30:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

umount -R

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 16:59:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Oh wheeeeeeeere is my mergeinfo

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 17:00:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

I _think_ doing a svn switch between a (reverse-)merge and a commit
turned out to be a bad idea?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 17:21:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

I want `svn rebase`

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 17:21:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You can't have it. No local history, remember?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 17:21:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Maybe I'll just blow away this branch, recreate it from trunk, and svn
merge -c the one commit that was on it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 17:28:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

There's a note in the svnbook about using 'svn diff' to effectively
create 'svn rebase'

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Aug  6 18:51:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

My brain has concluded that svn is like perforce but weirder.

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Aug  6 18:53:23 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Gregor Samsa awoke one morning to find himself 
transformed into an enormous software defect. <eichin>

that's not unsurprising; "fleeing from perforce"
was an early design influence on svn...

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Aug  6 18:53:52 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Yeah, I think the original concept was "let's use some ideas from
Perforce to make a better CVS."

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Aug  6 18:54:42 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

That's where branches-as-copies came from.

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Aug  6 18:55:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for YOUR BOSS! <geofft>

Right, that's basically what I'm noticing

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:09:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Apparently I use Xen now?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:10:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:10:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

According to some random journalist?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:10:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JOOJOO CLONE for AIRLINES! <geofft>

"Virtual desktops, three ways

"MokaFive Suite includes a Type 2 hypervisor based on VMware Player; a
Type 1 hypervisor based on Xen; a centralized server (Management
Server) for user, policy, and virtual machine management; and a
stand-alone application (MokaFive Creator) based on VMware Workstation
for virtual machine image (LivePC) creation and maintenance."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:11:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...binary translation/hvm is type 2, and paravirt is type 1?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:11:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PLAYBOY for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

No, VMM-inside-kernel is type 2, and kernel-as-guest-of-VMM is type 1

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:11:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

bare-metal hypervisor is type 1, hypervisor on top of/integrated into
"real OS" is type 2

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:11:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What he said.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:12:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Ah. I used to think only type 1 virtualization was realy, when I was
like, 10.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:12:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

*s/realy/real/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:12:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for PETS! <geofft>

Xen and ESX(i) are type 1. But really when we say "type 1" as a
marketing term, it means "I don't have to care about the outside OS",
and so a blob of Linux + vmplayer more or less satisfies that
requirement, even though it is type 2.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:12:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SKYNET for SANCTIMONIAL ARTIFACTS! <geofft>

See rants on -c broder about how this terminology is dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:13:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think those rants predate me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:13:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

If you, like, interacted with the Linux at all, then you'd call it
type 2, but you don't.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Even e.g. the web browser you use to get past captive portals is
Chromium inside a throwaway VM

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 19:14:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Which makes the academic-who-cares-about-virtualization-for-security
in me really happy.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:07:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Mmm, ESXi is type 1? I mean, I guess that makes sense, but I totally
think about the vmkernel as a thing that exists outside the monitor.
(But I work for the vprobes team, which has a non-VM userspace
process on ESXi, and which is inside the monitor team, which probably
cares more about the outer OS than normal people.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:09:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Can SIPB get an ESX(i) to play with? I've never actually touched
VMware's enterprise offerings...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:09:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

This is why this terminology sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

But is the vmkernel not a world inside the monitor, the same way Linux
is a dom0 inside the Xen hypervisor?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:10:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I guess IIRC the vmkernel loads first and then loads the
virtualization stuff (the monitor, presumably) as a module, so no?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:11:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

achernya: We have a site license. Go install it on an XVM guest or
something

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:11:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

We do?!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:11:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

It used to be https://web.mit.edu/vmware/ but that's broken now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:12:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Oh right, you can just netboot it, I think. Although that might be
ridiculously out of date now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:13:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I believe no, the vmkernel lives outside, but I could be wrong. (Does
Xen not have some sort of outer OS? I guess it's different, in that
the dom0 handles device drivers.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:13:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I think the appropriate download procedure is to email vmware@ and
Garry will reply with a download link? Lemme see if I've done this.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:13:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

(As, uh, part of my VMware internship)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:14:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> XVM guest

Does that... work? At least, if the goal is to run VMs on the box,
not just look at the management stuff?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:14:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:14:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

WTF did you not just get one from buildweb?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:15:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Because we weren't licensed to use it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:15:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

This was a VMware-sponsored CSAIL research project, that involved
VMware buying out Saman's company, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:16:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

So we used it while we were at VMware, and then to continue the
project in the fall at CSAIL, we needed MIT-licensed VMware

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:16:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

This is also why I've looked at no VMware proprietary code.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:19:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

> I believe no, the vmkernel lives outside, but I could be wrong.
> (Does Xen not have some sort of outer OS? I guess it's different, in
> that the dom0 handles device drivers.)

Right, the Xen hypervisor is the thing on the outside. So maybe Xen
is the only true type 1 hypervior (unless you count IBM's VM, but
everyone likes to forget about it). It has tiny bits of pieces of
Linux because why not crib from an existing OS, but it's mostly its
own thing.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:24:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"THe thing on the outside" seems kinda silly. Like, from a distance,
I feel like the ESX setup looks like "there's this thing, that you
can talk to to control stuff, and it runs some VMs", from which it's
not clear why that should be Type 2. I wouldn't distinguish vmkernel
from monitor until I got way closer than I am to Xen.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:25:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

As an example of an OS-like thing the Xen "hypervisor" does, doesn't
it have memory allocation and scheduling? It seems like those might
be done at a different abstraction layer than the VMM itself.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:25:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Exactly.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:26:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think the idea behind a type 1 hypervisor is to have a smaller
trusted codebase

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:26:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Congratulations, you now have the correct opinion on hypervisors to
yell at everyone else's marketing folks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:27:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:27:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Couldn't you get the same effect with a stripped down linux kernel and
the appropriate kvm module?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:30:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think sizeof(stripped down linux codebase) still > sizeof(vmkernel
codebase)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:31:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can you strip down the Linux codebase enough?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:31:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"IF somebody tells me how big Linux is, I can try to compare it to vmkernel."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:31:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

achernya: Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:38:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

I wish you could patch things in debian/ from debian/patches.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:38:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

(I vaguely suspect it will work, but lintian will get extremely
annoyed)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:38:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

.oO why Oo.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 20:41:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Linux looks substantially bigger. "And it doesn't use any of that
space on prominent directories with names like 'test'."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:39:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGG for COUGARS! <geofft>

Slightly terrified by the GRUB test cases that use qemu/kvm

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:40:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Would you say they have you...shaking in your boots?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:40:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*puts on sunglasses*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:42:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:42:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:42:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

No, and take those sunglasses off

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:45:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for TRAVELING ABROAD! <geofft>

"Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connaît point. On le sent en
mille choses. C’est le coeur qui sent Dieu, et non la raison. Voilà ce
que c’est que la foi parfaite, Dieu sensible au coeur."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:48:27 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Why are you terrified? Isn't that the obvious way to test GRUB?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:49:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Yeah, but I'm not sure how I feel about my poor little laptop spawning
tons of VMs...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:49:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean presumably they can be and hopefully are tiny VMs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:50:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"I'm just glad to hear GRUB *has* tests at all"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:58:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Oh crap, I missed a credit card payment?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:58:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

"not like I was using that credit score anyway"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

autopay?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You have to be 30 days delinquent for the credit bureaus to even hear
about it, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Really? Yay.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You will (probably) get hit with late fees, though.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

Autopay would be clever, yeah. I did screw myself over with it by
forgetting I had it on and attempting to pay manually too, which
bounced

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You didn't have enough money?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 21:59:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You will, and you may get your rate bumped up to like 99% APR< but
hopefully you're not carrying a balance

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:00:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Right, I noticed because I was sanity-checking charges and was like
"what's this LATE FEE thing... oh huh, I haven't paid since mid-June"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:00:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

it *bounced*? You need a raise.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:00:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

I was previously sucking at money.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:00:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's not totally insane to be paying out of an account that has
barely-sufficient money.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

(Mostly by spending too much of it and also letting my house owe me a
couple thousand dollars)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes it is, for this sort of reason.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh. I guess...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==glasgall.  Especially with interest rates being as shitty as they
are, keeping a cushion in your primary checking account won't lose you
that much money

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>



Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:01:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I link to my savings account, which has way more money than it
probably should. *sigh*)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:02:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Anyway, now that I've stopped spending more money than I take in, I
can probably turn it back on.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:02:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I should find myself an account that pays more interest. I think
MITFCU has something several times better...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:02:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No one pays decent interest these days. Interest rates are rock bottom
and likely to stay that way until the economy stops sucking

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For savings accounts, ING >>> not ING

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, frankly, they ought to be negative, but it's hard to do that
when physical currency still exists.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Even now that ING is pronounced "Capital One"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for PETS! <geofft>

jdreed: The problem was just not having money, not that money being in
savings, IIRC

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and when inflation, such as it is, is factored in, over shortish
timeframes, they /are/ effectively negative...)

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:03:55 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

s/the economy stops sucking/central banks stop suppressing
rates and the world stops having way too much capital/ the
latter not being strictly required to change any time soon.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:04:48 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If it's your first late payment, you can probably get them
to reverse all the fees with a phone call.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:05:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, my views on what the central banks should be doing are
well-known, but raising interest rates right now certainly isn't one
of them.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:05:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jeff Arnold <jbarnold>

> No one pays decent interest these days
I Bonds!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:05:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

That sounds like effort

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:05:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Also the bounce probably will make them look less than charitably at
me

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:05:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, my vibe was that central banks are suppressing because the economy sucks,
so they seem linked.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:06:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

FWIW, Cambridge Savings Bank still has The Right Account,
which pays high interest on a $25k checking account
balance. Though high interest is only 1.5% these days.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:06:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Newton Highlands. <stum>

that's huge! especially on $25k?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:06:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> you can probably get them to reverse all the fees with a phone call

Huh, I wonder if I should have tried that. (I think my sole overdue
payment was submitted in the web interface the day it was due, but at
like 5:10PM...)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:06:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh. Do they have any suckage I should know about? I /do/ need to find
a new bank.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:06:57 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It was 4% only a couple of years ago, when that was way
high.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:07:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I missed your views on central banks.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:07:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They should be firing the free money bazookas until demand becomes
sufficient again.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:07:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

CSB was incredibly incompetent 5-7 years ago.  I'm told they're less
incompetent now.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:07:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Sutherland Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

i have a couple savings bonds from when i was born that are paying 4%

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:08:05 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

CSB has no significant suckage. THey are not amazing at
some hard things (e.g. international wire transfers, and
jdreed had trouble getting them to do some DBA ccount
thing) but for general banking they are good. The High
interest account does require that you use their debit card
and direct deposit.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:08:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(firing the free money bazookas and/or setting expectations
accordingly by signaling willingness to tolerate higher inflation)

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:08:41 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Central banks should be jacking inflation. Free money from
central banks doesn't actually generate demand.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:09:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does when part of the reason we're still in recession is because
everyone's still deep in debt

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:10:11 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

How does low-interset money fix my debt problem? Inflation
fixes debt problems.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:10:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would also accept jacking inflation, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:10:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Oh right, they're selling iPhones now. Should I get an iPhone 4S for
$650?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:10:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm probably just speaking poorly

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:10:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for FARMERS! <geofft>

I think I would be more excited if it had a physical keyboard.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:12:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

There's also
http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/lg-optimus-slider-phone/features/
I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: virgin
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:12:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There are some new Samsung sliders coming out ltaer this month,
supposedly

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:18:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Can I really open an account with them without ever interacting
with a human?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:30:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(was -i dammit-fsf-die-in-a-fire.d)

I started browsing around that Debian clang rebuild.  One of the
differences comes down to this:

http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2010-June/009308.html

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:31:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Turns out that C++ as specified is undecidable.  Who knew?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:32:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Unsurprising, honestly.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:32:28 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, agreed.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:33:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's unsurprising that it is, and at the same time I doubt that anyone
on the committee intended it to be, and yet it's unsurprising that it
happened by accident.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:33:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I thought C++ templates were Turing-complete with adding much to them.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:34:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

Awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:34:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right, this guy is relying on that, and points out how a certain feature
means that even whether the program is valid C++ depends on the outcome
of some template program.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:34:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(some arbitrary template program)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:34:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANALYTICS PLATFORM for PETS! <geofft>

... Tickets expired?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:34:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

... it's 7:30? Why am I still at work?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:35:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Tickets-expired o'clock is, to a first approximation, go-home o'clock.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:35:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I am reminded of this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Design-Generic-Programming-Patterns/dp/0201704315

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:36:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for CALIFORNIA! <geofft>

Well, I got tickets as soon as I woke up, but meh

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:36:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This guy's conclusion from that point is that, as a compiler author, he
refuses to implement the offending feature because it must be a mistake
and would be a horrible pain.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:37:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Of course, it gives the GCC folks an easy opportunity to make fun of
him:
http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52136#c3
)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:39:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Does GCC actually implement that completely either? Seems you'd have
to check all (unbounded) possible template expansions for the example
he gave.

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:39:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh man, that book.  I have not read it, but I think I have a taste of
what it is.  Is he a Boost contributor?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:39:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Good question!

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:39:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A review quotes this gem:

"For a variety of reasons, C++ is a language that leads its users
sometimes to say, 'These are the smartest five lines of code I ever
wrote.'"

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

> Displaying extraordinary creativity and virtuosity

So, is this a book or a classical music performance?

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And the author seems to think that is a good thing!  Because the next
sentence (in the same quotation) is

"Maybe it is its semantic richness or the ever-exciting (and surprising?)
way its features interact."

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I read that book, it was... interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I guess they probably they do something like check only the template
expansions they happen to have done.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:40:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I never would want to *inflict* code like that on people I care about,
but I do think it made me smarter (reading it)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:41:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It would be an excellent troll to find some test case where GCC fails to
quite implement that rule and submit it as a bug.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:43:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of friendship. <ezyang>

"When did undecidability ever stop anyone?!"

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:52:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PRODUCT CURATION SERVICE for FIFTH EAST! <geofft>

Is there gcc code in C++? I think it would be an extremely excellent
troll to submit a patch in C++ that subtly uses this bug so that
every time you compile gcc, it flips which way it decides its own
codebase.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:53:55 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you're mean.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:54:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I guess it's actually conceivable that the searching only the
instantiations you happen to have done is a "correct" reading of that
clause. I dunno if C++ considers all possible template instantiations
to exist or only the ones that have actually been instantiated.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:54:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i think only the ones that have been instantiated.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:55:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

geofft: How would that work? I assume that any internal C++ templates
compiled in gcc, if any, would not bleed into programs compiled with
it.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 22:56:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MANPACKS for MODELS! <geofft>

Well, the code that implements the decision-making logic should itself
trigger this decision

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:15:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

geofft, you should call them and say, "Hey, first time. Give me the
late fee back." They'll say, "Okay."

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:37:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Well, hmm.  Turns out GCC accepts this program:

class B3 { protected: static int x; };
template <class T> void f3(T* pb) { B3::x = 5; }

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:38:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Take away the 'template <class T>' bit, and it quite properly rejects it
because B3::x is protected.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:38:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't think I understand quite what it's doing when it accepts that.
Would I somehow get caught if I tried to use that 'for real', e.g. by
instantiating the template?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:38:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hrm, i'm not grasping why it accepts it with the template <class T>
prefix.   isn't B3::x still protected?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:39:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Seems like it to me!  I have the same puzzlement.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:40:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Do you ever try to instantiate f3?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:40:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ah there you go. 

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:40:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

B3::x is a nondependent name, I'd expect it to catch the error sooner,
but I don't think it's erroneous unless you're allowed to instantiate
it.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:41:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yes, try adding an instantiation of f3.  until you do, the compiler
won't generate code...

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:41:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, it does complain when I add code that instantiates it.

class B3 { protected: static int x; };
template <class T> void f3(T* pb) { B3::x = 5; }
int g3() { int i; f3(&i); }

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:41:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is that actually legal C++ in the first version?

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:42:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess Josh said just above that it is.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:42:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

A non-instantiated template can get away with murder.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:42:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:43:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The compiler is supposed to be able to parse it (which is the purpose
of the non-obvious uses of the typename and template keywords) and do
some minimal checking on it, but it would not remotely surprise me if
access checking is not involved in that.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:44:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yep yep yep

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:44:30 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

see, this is why ya'll should read that book i referenced, also scott
meyers book on effective stl ;)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:52:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK, now on the other side, I'm not succeeding in making an example that
(a) involves templates (b) doesn't just fail to instantiate them, and
that g++ *accepts*.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:52:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

In other words, in adding templates to the examples they say should
work, so that I can get into the trouble McCall worries about.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:53:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

E.g., this is rejected:

class A2 { protected: typedef int foo; };
template <class T> class E2 : public A2 { friend class C2; };
class C2 { A2::foo x; };

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:54:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So is this, which is closer to the example in the GCC bug thread:

class B { protected: static int x; };
template <class T> class D : public B { friend void f(); };
void f() { B::x = 5; }
int g() { int i; f(); }

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:55:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Maybe I'm not succeeding in instantiating the relevant derived classes?
This doesn't help in the latter example:

template <> class D<int> { };

(inserted between the D<T> and f lines)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:55:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Joshua: I accept that the book you linked to would probably make me much
better at constructing these examples. =)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:56:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I mean, it might also make your head hurt.  Also, it might tempt you
to use techniques like that in real coding, which would be BAD.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:56:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

;)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:56:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Yeah, you need to instantiate those. Explicit instantiation syntax is
"template class D<int>;" or similar (pick whatever T you like).

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:57:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It'll be implicitly instantiated if you declare a D<int> anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:57:35 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: yritän hankkia elämän. <eichin>

yeah, the Alexandrescu book is famous for teaching
you things you may not have actually wanted to know about C++ :) 

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Mon Aug  6 23:58:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Josh: Thanks, that makes it pass.  Now to probe the boundary...

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:00:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The C++ standard differentiates between a "class template" and a
"template class". I suspect a "class template" is not enough to get the
access-my-friender's-base's-protected-items behavior.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:00:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Because, yeah, that would be undecidable.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:01:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

(A class template is the thing you get when you say template <stuff>
class Foo { ... }. A template class is the result of instantiating
that.)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:01:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, and when I had empty braces at the end of that declaration it was
not making it pass.  I didn't realize there was a difference (though in
retrospect, of course there is, it's C++.)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:02:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess that was giving me a class template instead of a template class.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:02:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

template<> class D<int> {}; declares a specialization of D<T> for ints,
but specializations *replace* the generic template, so it leaves you
with a D<int> that doesn't friend anything, which doesn't help in this
case.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:02:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh fascinating.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:03:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

template<> class D<int> { ... }; -- "when you say D<int>, use this class,
not the generic one."

template class D<int>;  -- "hey, compiler, go plug int in where it says
T in that class template for D I defined earlier, and emit all the
relevant functions and such."

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:03:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:04:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

So I'm beginning to suspect that McCall's worry may be mistaken,
although I'm relying in part on GCC's behavior to guide me.  His
"somewhat less abstract" idea was to start with this:

class A { protected: typedef int foo; };
template <class> class D;
template <class T> class E : public D<T> { friend class C; };
class C { A::foo x; };

and now "'C' is ill-formed unless there's a specialization of D which
derives from A."  But I'm not sure it's possible to construct such a
thing.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:05:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Because, again taking GCC as a guide, it looks like I can put base
classes on a class template but not on a template class.  AKA (?), on a
specialization but not an instantiation.  And a specialization doesn't
affect this.

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:06:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Oh, and you can define specializations with only a declaration of the
generic class.

template <int> class must_be_zero;
template<> class must_be_zero<0> {};

must_be_zero<0> is a fully-defined type with no members.
must_be_zero<1> is an incomplete type, and trying to create one will
cause a compiler error. This is a common way of doing compile-time
assertions.

I'll shut up now. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:07:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Yeah, it sounds like gcc is only using classes (template or
otherwise), and not class templates, to decide if the access to
C::foo is legal. I don't know what the standard says about this, but
it's basically the only reasonable way you can do it, AFAICT.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:08:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

So if you want your class template to let its friends access its
parents' protected members, you have to instantiate it.

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:09:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yep.  Hmm, which could be a pain... if this were actually a use case for
anybody.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:11:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

You can't make an instantiation do anything the class template didn't
already specify, because it's just a way of specifying implicitly what
the compiler's already doing implicitly - "template class A<int>;" and
"A<int> foo;" and "new A<int>;" all create the same instantiation.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:11:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Er, s/first implicitly/explicitly/

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:23:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Anyway, so after exploring this and rereading the quoted text from the
standard, my conclusion is that GCC is actually implementing the standard
correctly, not an approximation of it.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:24:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which John McCall acknowledges in that thread, and just says it's such a
misfeature ("almost certainly a drafting mistake") he doesn't want to
implement it.

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:25:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Hrm, I guess he doesn't necessarily acknowledge it; he seems to think
the standard's language applies to friends of class templates, not only
of classes.)

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 00:25:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(But I don't think his main reasons hinge on that anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:16:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for THE ARMY! <geofft>

Oops, was a bit too dayshifted and biked into oncoming traffic, which
fortunately decided to stop for me.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:17:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

I'm constantly curious how I'm still alive.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:17:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

(And this was while biking to a bus stop, since I knew I was too tired
to bike all the way home)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:17:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for PILOTS! <geofft>

In other news, finished _A Clockwork Orange_. Good book.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEATHER MACHINE for YOUR FINANCES! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:21:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> I'm constantly [...]

Me too...

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:24:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

> the smartest five lines of code I ever wrote

C++ and Haskell are very similar in this way

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:28:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And some related ways.  Each is unique, with a whole set of concepts
that aren't found in other languages.  Each is very difficult to
learn, and most people who attempt to learn don't really see how
everything fits together.

And they both kinda suck for getting things done.

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:29:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

> > Displaying extraordinary creativity and virtuosity

> So, is this a book or a classical music performance?

Didn't you know that Hacking is exactly like painting and composing
music?

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 03:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Life Hack: apply extra rosin between movements!!

Class: geofft Instance: clang
Time: Tue Aug  7 11:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (My wild Iris  @ The Wild Iris http://t.co/0gwI0cOB) <glasser>

stark: I was talking a week or two ago with a clang person about this
(undecidability of validity). He said that people doubted that what he
said was true, and he then drafted up a great proof of this. Can ask
him if I run into him today what that was. (More recent than the 2010
thread you linked to, I think)

Class: geofft Instance: clang.d
Time: Tue Aug  7 11:39:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

> Didn't you know that Hacking is exactly like painting and composing
> music?

++++++

I'll be over here with all the hash and the hot chicks, folks.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug  7 15:18:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Made it, somehow, but out of breath.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug  7 15:19:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FOURSQUARE for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

I really need to get in the habit of showering at work instead of at
home. I'm pretty sure I'm grosser now than when I woke up

Class: geofft Instance: work.ticketq
Time: Tue Aug  7 15:46:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

"Both S and M seem to have no effect. Machine is now unusable."

Class: geofft Instance: work.ticketq
Time: Tue Aug  7 15:49:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I am become ismith, destroyer of drywall. -geofft <ismith>

*grin*  "Have they tried boot and debug?"

Class: geofft Instance: work.ticketq
Time: Tue Aug  7 15:50:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for GYNECOLOGISTS! <geofft>

i,i MokaFifty Shades of Gray

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu
Time: Tue Aug  7 16:30:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

Haha, the enum constant for "The disk drive is not ready yet, continue
to wait?" is ERROR_BORED

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Aug  7 16:59:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DARING FIREBALL for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:02:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Being an outlier is suspcious, particularly ex-post-facto.  Film at
11.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:03:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, millions of people don't have a FB, and nobody cares, until
they're a mass murderer.  Ditto for playing GTA, wearing a trenchcoat,
not talking to your neighbors, etc, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:03:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't be slaves of time, it's a helluva way to die, slowly, by degrees ... down with the Ticktockman! <mherdeg>

That was one of the interesting takeaways from a H2K2 talk by a guy
who "could pull up anyone's credit file for $20" (he demonstrated on
Jack Valenti): "they've got a category for everyone ... including
people who buy everything with cash."

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:04:21 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

"None of my neighbors ever say anything to me or to anyone else.  That
must mean that they are ALL sociopaths!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:07:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

"BUILD FAILED: build successful exception slave lost"

Um, does that mean anything in English?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:09:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Spin Chain And Exchange The Gears <kchen>

(Completely making this up)

Perhaps it parses as:
BUILD FAILED: (((build successful) exception) slave) lost

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:09:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

Which means...?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:09:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:09:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Allemande Left <kchen>

(Or, the slave responsible for generating an exception for having a
successful build was lost.  Not that an exception for successful build
makes much sense, or the rest of the theoretical explanation either.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:10:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Oh, I see the parse now, but, wat?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:10:51 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

I see it as
BUILD_SUCCESSFUL exception: slave lost

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:10:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Left Square Thru 2 <kchen>

I'm not saying that's a reasonable explanation at all, but that's what
I get if I force the text into an explanation.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:11:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Touch 1/4 <kchen>

That one makes a bit more sense than mine.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:12:21 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

"build successful" is a pretty dumb exception name though.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:31:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for ENDANGERED SPECIES! <geofft>

Tigger warning: excited, bouncy animated tigers.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:32:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I thought Jesus was basically God deciding to LARP. - geofft <wings>

My mother was eaten by a tiger in front of my eyes when I was 5

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:32:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: If you don't answer my questions nine, sing ninety-nine and ninety <kdrinkwa>

PROBLEMATIC

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:32:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ergo ipso facto columbo oreo. - from Bones <wings>

Not actually, but I'm sure someone's has

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:32:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AIRBNB for WOMBATS! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: 4chan
Time: Tue Aug  7 17:41:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

4chan supports SPDY? huh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug  7 18:41:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEW SOCIAL PLATFORM for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Huh, Lenovo desktops don't have a ThinkVantage key on their keyboard?

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:27:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

debathena / precise / ezyang  2012-08-07 16:26  (You hear the chimes of a modern capitalist society.)
    \o/
freenode / #vmware / last1  2012-08-07 16:26 (last1!~last1@92.114.2.146)
    you're very easily excited aren't you

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:30:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Should I get on that #vmware?

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:30:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for INDEPENDENT LIVING GROUPS! <geofft>

Shrug, it's mostly dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:31:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ZAPPOS for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

If you really like watching a bunch of confused sysadmins try to
figure out how to set up ESX, then sure

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:31:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: This tastes like 10% real (reconstituted) all-natural beverage. <ezyang>

"Haha, sounds like IRC"

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:33:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

My #vmware sounds like more fun.

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:54:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for CELEBRITY GOSSIP! <geofft>

Also, every so often someone has a question about VirtualBox and is
confused why nobody is answering them.

Class: geofft Instance: juxtaish
Time: Tue Aug  7 19:56:54 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

Maybe they've had a lot of trolls :)

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:24:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for TRAVELING! <geofft>

*** target file `.PHONY' has both : and :: entries.  Stop.

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:25:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:27:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SPORT DEATH T-SHIRT for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Hey, stop complaining, I'm working on #81

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:27:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Debathena #81?

Class: geofft Instance: make.q Opcode: auto
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:27:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://debathena.mit.edu/trac/ticket/81 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debathena ticket 81: Cron job to check for changed upstream versions of diverted conffiles

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:27:58 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, really?  I started some work on that too

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:28:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DISTRIBUTED SOCIAL NETWORK for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Apparently so did phurst.

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:28:39 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

or are you working on this in that us switching to MokaFive will close
all our trac tickets?  

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:28:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for TECH INCUBATORS! <geofft>

No, MokaFive uses config-package-dev

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:29:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yeah, I took some of phurst's stuff and poked at it a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REALTIME DATA for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

I count about 220 DEB_{DIVERT,TRANSFORM,REMOVE}_FILES in our codebase

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:33:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

jdreed@infinite-loop:~/src/athena$ egrep --exclude-dir=.svn -r 'DEB_(DIVERT|TRANSFORM|REMOVE)_FILES' * | wc -l
122

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:34:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Note that you can break multiple lines, so that's not quite what you
want.

Class: geofft Instance: make.q
Time: Tue Aug  7 20:34:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yeah, I know, but still

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 22:57:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

Crap -> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 22:58:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I hope that first word wasn't a verb because otherwise TMI

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 22:59:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

A non-metaphorical noun is also bad.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:01:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

No, that was just the type signature of a dung bricklayer

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MEME GENERATOR for PETS! <geofft>

Trying out Twist. The UI/flow confuses me

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:35:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

link?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:36:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

er is this the iPhone app?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:36:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for PEOPLE WHO HATE GROUPON! <geofft>

Yeah. twist.com

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:37:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MAPREDUCE QUERY for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Apparently http://m.twist.com/i/rh4gaj9m will let you stalk me?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:38:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yep. you appear to be at a train station.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Tue Aug  7 23:40:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Wow this seems kinda creepy.

For some reason, this really seems like it affords switching 
to birds-eye view in order to watch you like a Predator 
drone.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 00:45:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

How does this differ from Google Latitude?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:08:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

I didn't think Latitude notified people

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:10:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

"also I can't get Latitude to work, I'm pretty sure it still thinks
I'm walking down Kendall"

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:25:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, is this the "sign up and then your friends can easily see your
ETA" thing that was mentioned at your housewarming?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:28:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:29:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

(ianyh and erikchen are there)

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:31:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Uh, I can see you on Latitude just fine.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:35:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for GAY MARRIAGES! <geofft>

Where am I?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:35:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:36:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a LINKEDIN for ADULT DANCERS! <geofft>

(I'll note that Google has no Latitude history from me for the past
three months, so if you can tell where I am right now I'll be
impressed)

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:36:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Latitude history != latitude position

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

You guys have no soul :P

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(You're supposed to continue the lines!!)

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'm pretty sure you're quoting a rock song...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for FACEBOOK PLATFORM! <geofft>

Hm, March 20 was the last time I think I have a checkin?
Coincidentally-ish, it looks like the last checkin was from my home

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Your point? You all have heard it before!

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:37:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TWITTER FIREHOSE for COLLEGIATE JEWISH WOMEN! <geofft>

Wait, do you not recognize this song?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:38:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I was punning on soal.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:38:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Outside Triangle Funny Circulate <kchen>

You have to enable history explicitly if you want it.  Check-ins are
also a separate thing.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:38:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

typo, whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:40:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Hm, at the moment it syas "Unknown location" for you. I swear I've seen
you in recent weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:41:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Because... he's.... caught in a landslide...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for BATH SALTS! <geofft>

I would be surprised if you've actually seen me since March 20.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:42:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

He has no escape from reality

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:42:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for THE ARMY! <geofft>

In any case, Twist isn't attempting to track my location all the time
(I want something that does this, but that's tangential); it's only
attempting to track my location when I open the Twist app, say I'm
going somewhere, and jump on a bike or on public transit.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:43:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for TWINKIES! <geofft>

It also triggers an email with an ETA, and an email if I'm running
late / miss the ETA. Latitude I think isn't even attempting to do
anything similar to this

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:43:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't know Queen that well. :/

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:43:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

If you really want to know where you are, geofft, open your eyes, 
look up to the skies and see...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:43:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I never understood the bascination with Bohemian Rhapsody anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:44:15 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Twist is a feature for Latitude (or another large consumer
web company with a Latitude clone) that would encourage
adoption.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:44:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

and then use a sextant to help you figure out where you are.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:44:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, is that in that song...?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:44:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

It's a thing because it's a thing and people accept it as a thing. Oh,
and it might have some musical genius in there somewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:45:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

DEFINITELY

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:45:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Will you do the Fandango?!

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:46:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

...in the same way that Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is popular...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Microcontrollers - things you can use to make robots go vroom vroom." - lexrj <pbaranay>

No, I'm just a poor boy from a poor family. Also going to bed.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:47:05 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is considerably less unique
among pop hits than is Bohemian Rhapsody.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:47:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yay!!! There is a human soul here! :) sounds like a plan. I have to
get up early anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:47:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

But has that super drugged out feel either way.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:47:54 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Every few years the cultural hive mind successfully
adoptions an interesting piece of music. Bohemian Rapsody
is one of those. Take Five is another, off hand.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:47:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...I never understood the fascination with the Beatles that much
either...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:48:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, yeah. I think it's proportional to the amount of drugs the
musicians were on when they wrote it.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:48:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is about LSD, in an
exceptionally unsubtle way. I don't even thing of Bohemian
Rhapsody as being particularly drug related.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:49:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yeah, Galileo, Galileo, Galileo, Figaro! Doesn't seem drugged out at
all... :P

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:50:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I missed a Galileo. You get the point. :) Sorry for monopolizing your
instance geofft... I now realize this should have been a .d. :/

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:51:38 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It's not drugged, it's operetic, and fails to make sense
because opera doesn't make sense.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:52:05 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Also, TIL from Wikipedia, it was the most expensive single
recording ever made at the time it was produced.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

-c geofft has an instance set aside: .d.
.d.
.d!

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:54:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Does the .d! mean it's some sort of dangerous or permanent
manipulation of the original .d instance??

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:55:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

AHHH OPERA makes sense!! It totally makes sense. WAY more sense than
Bohemian Rhapsody.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:55:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha, I was totally expecting a reaction like that.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:55:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Hey! I still get an ear, remember!!!! :P

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:55:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:56:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

...? ear. You'll find it amongst your logs.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:56:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It took me a while to figure out what that was about...

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:56:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

1/50th of a human

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:56:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

No, I was "Uh"ing Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:56:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, ok. 

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 01:59:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

For those who didn't see it:
dash see geoff tee has an in  stance set aside dot dee dot dee dot dee
be   el  ze    bub has a  dev il     set aside for me  for me  for me
:-)

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:00:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Exactly

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:01:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Just gotta get out, just gotta get right outta here, before this
conversation keeps me from staying up too much later!

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:01:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Also, ++oremanj

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:01:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Easy come, easy go, eh?

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:02:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I guess I should sleep as well; it's three hours later here, but my own
damn fault I'm up late, I need no sympathy.

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:03:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Goodnight :-)

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:03:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

AHHHHH

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 02:33:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

mega christy++

Class: geofft Instance: svnbook.q
Time: Wed Aug  8 03:04:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

"The 'svn reert' command offers salvation for imperfect people."

Class: geofft Instance: svnbook.q
Time: Wed Aug  8 03:04:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NETFLIX for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

er 'revert'

Class: geofft Instance: svnbook.q
Time: Wed Aug  8 03:07:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

A rather large constituency!

Class: geofft Instance: startups-my-friends-are-in
Time: Wed Aug  8 11:12:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

starking, geofft is possibly too clever for his own good.  I
appreciate this.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:36:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

wtff

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:37:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

someone used the variable "vm" to mean something other than a virtual
machine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:37:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

what did they use it to mean?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:37:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <geofft>

Variable map

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:38:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

weird

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:38:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for SORORITY CHICKS! <geofft>

as in boost::program_options::variables_map, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:41:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for YOUR MOM! <geofft>

argh social conventions

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:54:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPA AD NETWORK for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

The Tell-Tale Clock Interrupt

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Aug  8 14:55:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for HUNTERS! <geofft>

The gold(1) Bug

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:03:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

GNU on Linux Daemon

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:03:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Squashing the bug that lays the golden eggs

Class: geofft Instance: nelhage
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:28:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

That reminds me, I want a hard-copy ARM ARM

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:38:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AMAZON for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

Dear Russian QA folks: "BareMetal hanged" is not really the phrasing
you want

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:38:57 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Deirdre Connolly <neried7>

That sounds like a good band name.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 15:39:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL NETWORK for MARKETERS! <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:27:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a STUDENT GOVERNMENT for CRACKED IPHONE APPS! <geofft>

Geoffrey,

[$salesengineer] is flying out to [$customer] on 8/15-8/16. These
will be the first days that students will begin school.

Please make yourself available should any issues come up
[$salesengineer] might need your help to troubleshoot any BM issues.

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:29:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That /definitely/ sounds like a personal problem.

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:29:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ENRON for WORLD OF WARCRAFT! <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:48:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FLICKR for CAMP COUNSELORS! <geofft>

Okay, what, why does muting "front" but leaving "headphones" on mute
my headphones?

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:49:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DATABASE ABSTRACTION LAYER for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

This isn't even work-related I just wanted to listen to music while
coding :(

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:58:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APARTMENT GUIDE for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

Oh cool, IAP is coming in mid-September

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:58:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:59:11 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 16:59:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, that

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:00:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROSS-PLATFORM MOBILE APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Independent Activities Period (IAP)
PROD
Release
9/16/12

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:00:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:00:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:00:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

it's sooner than you think!

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:00:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, right.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug  8 17:34:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

iwlagn I thought you were my friend :( :( :(

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug  8 18:00:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a AGGREGATOR for UGLY PEOPLE! <geofft>

xxd is from vim-common?????????

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug  8 18:02:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Moreover, it can be used to perform binary file patching.

"Yay."

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Wed Aug  8 18:10:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I think vim's hex edit mode secretly just shells out to xxd and xxd
-r, or something?

Class: geofft Instance: app.net
Time: Wed Aug  8 19:14:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CROWDSOURCING APP for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Do I want to put $100 towards app.net?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Aug  8 19:51:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WEEDMAPS for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Gahhh why do all bug trackers suck

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Wed Aug  8 19:52:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"File a bug"

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:16:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YELP for YOUR CAT'S LITTER BOX! <geofft>

Go to Bay Area Debian dinner?

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:17:00 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

Any particular reason to not?

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:17:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for MEDICINAL MARIJUANA! <geofft>

It's at 7, and I'm an ~hour away

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:20:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I was waffling about it, but now I will def. go.

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:20:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

T

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug  8 20:21:21 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: Thank you for sending me a copy of your book;
I'll waste no time reading it. - Moses Hadas
 <rnjacobs>

what else will you do with your time?

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:45:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SOCIAL GAME for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

I really want an LWN app for iPad.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:45:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for THE ARMY! <geofft>

(a la the NYT, Economist, etc. apps)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:47:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I dunno how relevant this is, but calibre supports ebook-ifying LWN.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.d
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:48:33 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

> an LWN 
How do you pronounce that? (Or is it a typo?)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:49:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ell double-you en.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:50:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(That's correct --- use "an" before abbreviations that, when
pronounced, sound like they start with a vowel. Which is maybe most
of them?)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.d
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:50:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MATCH.COM for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

It's also "thee NYT" with a long E, for the same reason.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:51:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GOOGLE ANALYTICS for STOLEN GOODS! <geofft>

Huh, that does sound useful. Although calibre is kind of a piece of
crap

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:54:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm not really convinced I have a systematic the/thee distinction.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:54:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTGAMIT for PRESENTATION TOOLS! <geofft>

You should sing more.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:54:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Heh. I think the first time I had there was supposed to be a
distinction was in 21M.mumble.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:54:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

s/had/heard/

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.d
Time: Thu Aug  9 00:55:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Linguistics assignments that are like "try to find a systematic rule
for how $thing is pronounced" turn out to work ~poorly when you
pronounce a lot of words wrong...

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:39:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for CHINESE TAKE-OUT! <geofft>

Okay, the StumbleUpon "API" is _impressively_ bad

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:40:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DEBATHENA for COUGARS! <geofft>

http://www.quora.com/StumbleUpon/What-sorts-of-data-is-available-through-StumbleUpon-API
http://www.stumbleupon.com/help/business-tools/badges/

That's it.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:41:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of Coca-Cola. <ezyang>

Huh, I guess StumbleUpon is trying to solve this problem, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:43:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION! <geofft>

Hm. Yeah, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:47:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a BRICK AND MORTAR SOLUTION for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

Wait, is Delicious in this space now?

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:48:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The piece of modern art hits you! You contemplate the meaning of life. You die... <ezyang>

I don't use delicious for discovery, and I don't think the old userbase
really figured out what stacks were for.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang.d
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:49:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NODE.JS SERVER for ALCOHOLICS! <geofft>

In completely unrelated news, Quora's quality seems to be rapidly
approaching Yahoo! Answers'.

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:53:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROBLOGGING SERVICE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

"PageRank is a link analysis algorithm, named after Larry Page"

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:54:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The bong hits the gnome! The gnome turns into stone! <ezyang>

*snerk*

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:54:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Thing is, it's true!

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:54:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't resist the temptation to mimic an orange. <ezyang>

I guess the problem is, I don't really trust StumbleUpon's algo, and it
doesn't offer any sort of /comprehensiveness/

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:55:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here two trillion Zimbabwean dollars. <ezyang>

But I'm not sure why being comprehensively aware of the entirety of
someone's blogging history

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 01:55:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait! There's something there you can't see! It's a Higgs Boson! <ezyang>

*is a good thing

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Thu Aug  9 02:04:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TEXTS FROM LAST NIGHT for RESTROOMS! <geofft>

I suspect StumbleUpon's recommendation algorithm (given that you like
A, B, and C, we suspect you will like D) is quite fine, because their
UI is centered around collecting this data. I don't trust their
database to be comprehensive, ==, mostly because their UI for
submitting things seems to be both way more hidden and way less worth
using than, say, Reddit's or HN's. So I wouldn't use it for your
problem. And the algorithm itself seems not to be directly queryable;
I suspect that if you asked the SU database "please tell me which of
these pages on this domain I'm likely to like and not like", and if
you had aggressively told it your opinions on everything so far in
your RSS history, it would give you great answers.

Class: geofft Instance: mit
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:25:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE for MIDDLE SCHOOLERS! <geofft>

Do I really have more up-to-date certs on my work machine than my
personal one? Weird

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:34:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a APPSTORE for CHRISTIAN FAMILIES! <geofft>

Wat, $409 is a reasonable price for a Burning Man ticket?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:36:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

They've been selling for much more than that on scalping sites,
without much reason to even think you can use the ticket you receive.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:36:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Do you think $409 is too low or too high, and on what grounds?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:37:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a NEWS RECOMMENDER for NIGHTCLUBS! <geofft>

Well they should just set up their own Burning Man in the middle of
the desert with no rules

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:37:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

No rules and no port-a-potties!

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:38:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for SURGEONS! <geofft>

"And hookers and blackjack"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:38:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"In fact, forget the blackjack. And the porta-potties."

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:38:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

==

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:41:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

srsly though, there's a lot of shared infrastructure.  $400 seems
quite reasonable for what you get.  Most of the people providing that
infrastructure aren't getting paid, either.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:41:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Of course what the event is worth is up to you.  A lot of people
wouldn't go to Burning Man if you paid them $400 to go.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You can easily spend $400 on supplies and the cost of getting there.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Wait, Geofft is going to BM?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MOBILE ECOSYSTEM for SYSADMINS! <geofft>

No wat

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I SUPPORT THIS PLAN

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fly away on my zephyr <jessiehl>

$400 seems pretty high to me, but I've only been to Firefly, not BM.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait I think I just encouraged Ian to be a horrible person -wings <ismith>

Haven't you been paying attention?  BM is what he does for a living.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:42:59 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

$400 is standard

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for STAR TREK CONVENTIONS! <geofft>

I'm just replying to
https://twitter.com/glasser/status/233631887753637888

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:43:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i mean $300 is standard.  $400 is standard + small change

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:43:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SALESFORCE.COM for WHISKEY LOVERS! <geofft>

Burning Man sounds boring, honestly

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:43:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a OPEN COMMENTING SYSTEM for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

"but then again so does Roast"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I... Dont... understand.... you....!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Karl doesn't care if you are sad." - unkcr <pbaranay>

"you've never been to the right parts of Roast"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

==paul

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MAGAZINE for EX-CONVICTS! <geofft>

"but they sound boring nonetheless"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Code monk get up, get coffee" - geofft <pbaranay>

Josh, are you going this year?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "3d printing will save the guild!" - munch <pbaranay>

(to the playa)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

playa?  of course. :)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:46 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i still need to figure out how i'm _GETTING_ there

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahem

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:44:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "God dammit I hate secret weapons. Unless they're mine." - wings <pbaranay>

Well, I figured there was a chance hell froze over while I wasn't
looking. And, yeah, that. :P

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:45:05 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you know, small details like that.  Also need to figure out where i'm
djing.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Burning Man is a city of 50,000 people.  Saying it's boring is like
saying Boston or New York is boring -- it's more a statement about you
than about the city.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:46:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a VIRAL MARKETER for HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS! <geofft>

I think partly because I'm sufficiently introverted that "large
community of like-minded people that I've never met before in an
unusual environment" does not sound appealing. I can deal with "large
community of like-minded people that I've never met before in a
perfectly normal environment", sometimes.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:46:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That said, yes, I was bored much of the time.  Spent a lot of my time
biking 20 minutes in the awful heat to an event which turned out to be
cancelled.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:46:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for SMALL BUSINESSES! <geofft>

Yes, it's a statement about me. I didn't intend it to be a statement
about Burning Man.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Burning Man is cool because of the sheer scale, but I found Firefly to
be a much more enjoyable event

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

firefly blows

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:26 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i went

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

maybe you blow

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a WIKIPEDIA for FUNERAL HOMES! <geofft>

Also sounds boring for the same reasons, knowing nothing about it

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

WHAT NOW

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:47:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'd sorta like to go to BM or Firefly some day.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:48:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (Anyone I know looking for a Burning Man ticket? May have an extra available (my cost was $409).) <glasser>

409 is ghe vost of yhe highest tier ticket which i bought because i
can afford it.
(lower tiers are equivalent just cheaper)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:48:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Well, if you're bored at Firefly, you're still camping in some nice
woods, which is better than being bored on the surface of Mars.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:48:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

it was this boring thing with lots of weird clicky in groups and no
playa and the weather was all wrong and the massive art was about 4
orders of magnitude (ok 2 if i'm generous) not as good

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:48:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, the art at Firefly was not as good.  Not a big deal for me,
though

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:48:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

glasser:  don't waste your time with FF.  it goes against priceless
anyway.  I tried it one year.  

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:49:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Burner art is mostly meaningless shiny, anyway.
(I'm happy to see some examples to the contrary)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:49:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (Anyone I know looking for a Burning Man ticket? May have an extra available (my cost was $409).) <glasser>

if you want to have your own party on the playa for free with no
pitties or infrastructure well that is what i did on july 4

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:49:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It seems like the point of every piece is "Look how pretty this LED /
fire is", and while it *is* pretty, there's only so much you can get
out of that

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:49:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (Anyone I know looking for a Burning Man ticket? May have an extra available (my cost was $409).) <glasser>

i went to firefly once and left in 24 hours

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:50:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wow....  keegan... i ... i feel so sorry for you

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:50:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Could you explain instead of being a jerk?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:50:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

sure

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:50:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Is there something I'm actually not getting here?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:50:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"you just saw the wrong art.  come back and i'll happily walk around
with you showing you the right art."

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:51:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Okay, maybe you could describe some of the right art, or send me
links?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:51:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't really intend to return to Burning Man any time soon.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:51:13 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i mean i won't lie -- some of what you said DOES exist!  and it's
certainly a "part"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:51:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

but to think that "that's all there is" is... factually incorrect.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:52:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

anyway, i've burst into tears at art i saw at BM before, and I don't
burst into tears at pretty fire or LEDs (despite thinking that they
are cool!)

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:53:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

like, again, you're not wrong!  "look at how pretty this LED/fire is"
DOES exist and is a double digit percentage!  But there _IS_ more than
that.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:53:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Okay, well I believe you, but I'm not sure how this discussion can
continue really!

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:54:04 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

heh.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:54:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If I go back to BM I will happily take you up on your offer of an art
tour.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:54:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's been 4 years and I was at Firefly just last month, where almost
all the art was pointless shiny, and you said Firefly blows, so maybe
we secretly agree on everything

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:54:56 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I am actively searching my brain/memory for examples, and will post
when the query returns.  I think the most moving one I ever saw was a
piece about death in the iraq war.  I, entirely soberly, and trying
NOT eto be emotional, involuntarily started crying about the loss of
human lives.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 14:56:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(To be fair, I said "mostly meaningless" not "all that is".)

Class: geofft Instance: eipq
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:15:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a HTML5 APP for LAUNDROMATS! <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  2012-08-09 12:14  (putting out fire with gasoline)
    ARE YOU ON A BOAT, GEOFFT AND DI|D YOU BRING TPAIN

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:19:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CASH4GOLD for THE HOMELESS! <geofft>

I am actually genuinely confused by the concept of being in a place
because there are things to do in that place. Maybe I'm just way more
introverted than every self-proclaimed introvert on zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:19:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

why else would you be in a place?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:19:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CONVERSION FUNNEL for PONZI SCHEMES! <geofft>

for work or something?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:20:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a COLLABORATIVE FILTER for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

I guess I'm differentiating "because my life takes me to that place"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:20:06 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

you mean instead of vacation?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:20:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ECO-FRIENDLY MARKETPLACE for CHEAP VODKA! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:20:45 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

so when I go on vacation I secretly like to do the things that I do
normally when I have downtime except in a different environment

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:20:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

The trick is that you, too, can invite people to places.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:21:08 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

like I went to New York and read a book in Central Park and got coffee
and went shopping

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:21:37 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

and that was pretty fun because it was different from reading a book
in my backyard and getting coffee from Voltage and going shopping in
Boston

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:21:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I really like masquerading as a local in places. kasittig's NYC trip
sounds like a fun thing!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:22:09 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I think the other trick is that you don't have to do anything
dramatically different, sometimes it's nice to just get a change of
scenery

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:22:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Where did you get coffee?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:22:30 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

uhhh I don't remember. somewhere in between lizdenys's apartment and
dvp's apartment

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:22:39 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

"I looked for 'coffee shops' on Yelp and picked one nearby"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:23:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Idle curiosity, sorry :)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:23:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, I like going to places where life seems drastically different from life
where I am and watching people

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:23:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

What does it mean to be in a place because there are things to do in
that place? Like taking a one-week cruise in the Caribbean? It's
supposedly fun.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:24:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(Oh, but then I said "every" later.  Ah well.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a MICROSOFT KIN for SOCIAL OUTCASTS! <geofft>

I'm not really sure what I mean. Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:24:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I sort of assume you mean like "going to Hawaii because there's good hiking and
surfing"?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:24:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PURITY TEST for ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE! <geofft>

I think this is "I want to move to $place because $place is cool, and
find something to do there" vs. "I want to find something to do and
move where it is"?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:25:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a GREEN TECH PROGRAM for EX-GIRLFRIENDS! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:25:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

but isn't $place cool because of the things you can do there?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:25:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

[fwiw, i <3<3<3 hawaii and HATE surfing and hiking]

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:26:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hawaii also has diving!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a RECOMMENDATION ENGINE for ALPHA PHI GIRLS! <geofft>

kyoki: Yes, but that doesn't interest me

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:27:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==geofft

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:27:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ah. so what makes a place cool?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:28:07 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"i don't like sports"

BUT hawaii has AWESOME food and AWESOME drinks and zomg the beaches...
kailua beach is like from a dream

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:28:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CPW for HUNTERS! <geofft>

Like basically I live in SF because my work is nearby and I have
friends nearby. I don't live in SF because it's the center of hacker
culture (except indirectly, in that it causes work and friends to be
nearby), and I basically am not taking advantage of it being the
center of hacker culture

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:28:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

so you basically want to live near friends? that's totally reasonable

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i now have this very subtle urge to drag geoff to cool places in sf

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PINTEREST for YOUR AQUARIUM! <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not really going to find that interesting

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: just checking: your penis is not currently grey, is it? -kdrinkwa <ismith>

Not so subtle.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Feel free to do that to me, fustflum

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a DIGITAL MUSIC DISTRIBUTION for WEST CAMPUS! <geofft>

I think you missed the part where Keegan pointed out, correctly, that
I am a boring person

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:29:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I didn't mean to imply that :(

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:30:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a IPHONE APP for SIPB MEMBERS! <geofft>

Maybe I would have been happy living in a house an hour away from
Boston in Redhatland, on the grounds that I could probably make
friends there

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:30:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for FAMILY GUY ENTHUSIASTS! <geofft>

... You didn't imply that, you said it.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:31:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

When?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:31:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a YOUTUBE for STATA PIZZA! <geofft>

geofft / twitter / htns  2012-08-09 11:46  (Keegan L McAllister)
    Burning Man is a city of 50,000 people.  Saying it's boring is like
    saying Boston or New York is boring -- it's more a statement about you
    than about the city.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a PANDORA for NATURE BLOGS! <geofft>

Ultimately, yes, I do find Boston and New York boring.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ANDROID APP for PREFROSH! <geofft>

and SF.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm sorry that I was careless with words.  It's not what I meant.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:25 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

Let me try flipping this around: What do you find interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a CRM for PILOTS! <geofft>

But it's true!

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Dude, I'm like the most introverted person in the world and even I
found the *occasional* thing to do in NYC.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Being a boring person is different from being unable or unwilling to
find interesting things to do in a particular setting.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I sorta need people to drag me out. This doesn't always happen.)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a JQUERY PLUGIN for THE ARMY! <geofft>

And I found the occasional thing to do in Boston and the occasional
thing to do in SF, too

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:33:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You might find it easy to find things to do in Boston, and harder to
find things to do in NYC or at Burning Man.  That's a statement about
you, but not a statement equivalent to "You are boring"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:33:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

@@tiny{my name is joshua, and sure.   *added to huge very long mental
checklist*}

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:33:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Anyway I should just stop talking to anyone online because I keep
being a jerk by accident :(

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a REDDIT for HIGH-END PORNOGRAPHY! <geofft>

But I think it's a good and true observation that I find it hard to
find things to do at any of Boston, New York, or Burning Man

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:34:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a ADULTFRIENDFINDER for FAST CASUAL RESTAURANTS! <geofft>

and this has nothing to do with those cities, and approaching this as
"I find Burning Man uninteresting" is really not as informative as "I
find places uninteresting, and Burning Man happens to be a place"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:35:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

so geofft, what do you find interesting?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:38:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a SEO OPTIMIZER for FRESHMAN ADVISING! <geofft>

That is a question I'm not sure I have the answer to off the top of my
head. Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:39:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

it's possible you just haven't tried enough things :)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:40:13 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

How about "what do you find fun or exciting?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:48:09 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Ruth J Byers <ruthie>

Hmm, I suspect basically everyone will choose a place to live based on
whatever part of their life they think is most important.  So that
could be family, or hobbies, or social life, or job, or just comfort.
You probably wouldn't be surprised if I said that something besides my
job was the most important part of my life, so it's not that
surprising if I decided to move somewhere based on that.  Based on the
last few summers when I've lived in different places, my happiness was
much better predicted by aspects of the places I've lived besides my
job, so it would make sense for me to choose a location that will make
me happy followed by a job to support myself there when I graduate.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 15:49:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a TUMBLR for PARKING TICKETS! <geofft>

Yeah, that makes good sense. And I do prioritize my job a fair bit
more (since it turns out that there's a lot of market value in the
things I find fun, so I might as well do the things I find fun for
pay)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:18:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, where do *you* want to live, Ruthie?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:22:42 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Ruth J Byers <ruthie>

That's so not the right question for this discussion.  Shouldn't you
be asking me how I'll choose where to live?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:23:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:26:21 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Ruth J Byers <ruthie>

I want somewhere with a good music and dance community.  I
don't know if I'll choose city -> job but I'll probably look for work
in small-n different places.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:28:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: So, basically, it's like a API for TWINKIES! <geofft>

Does that have a big-city vs. small-city bias? (And does that have a
bias across countries?)

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:29:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I still want to know what Geoff finds fun/exciting so we (global we)
can optimize for him.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Thu Aug  9 16:34:22 2012 Host: SCRUBBING-BUBBLES.MIT.EDU
From: Ruth J Byers <ruthie>

Who me?  Sure, but that doesn't reflect much preference on my part.
My interests are obscure enough such that you don't usually get enough
people to have variety of activities in small cities.  And I probably
wouldn't seriously consider living outside of the states, but, sure,
they exist some places but not others.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q Opcode: popcorn
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:03:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

>>> We do not need to be able to choose among multiple init implementations.
>>
>> According to my latest information only the DPL may speak on behalf of
>> the project which can by overridden by way of a GR. I therefore conclude
>> that YOU don't want to be able to chose among multiple init
>> implementatioins.
>
> It’s not a question of wanting it or not. It is a stupid thing to do,
> which brings us more work with no added value for our users.
>
> And no, choice between multiple broken implementation is NOT added
> value. Linux is not about choice.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:03:59 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: Leonard Richardson is here, asking people to lick him.
 <rnjacobs>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:05:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: organically farmed and herbicide-free. <ageng>

Since when has the choice been between anything but multiple broken
implementations?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:05:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: totally just silly <ageng>

(I mean, when there was a choice at all, of course.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:05:36 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

"When one of them is popular enough that everyone forgets about the others"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:05:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Graaaaaaaaaaains! <ageng>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Why exactly do we need a libasound2-udeb?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, text-to-speech. That's pretty awesome. (Debian #613092)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:40 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

To play a stylish trance song during the install, just like WinXP

Class: geofft Instance: debian Opcode: auto
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=613092 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Debian ticket 613092: alsa-lib: Add libasound2-udeb

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's what I was afraid of...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:13:54 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

Oh, fine, you just had to come up with a good reason.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:14:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well I dunno Joey Hess is unilaterally changing things and hoping that
debian-devel is too self-interested in wanking about reverting to
actually revert

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:19:04 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

*sigh* could you remind me what the thing Joey
unilaterally chaged was?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:19:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

tasksel: Default desktop: Gnome→Xfce

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:19:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://thread.gmane.org/20120803190614.GA4520@mraw.org

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:19:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:20:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

c'mon, why not twm?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:21:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's a WM, not a DE.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:21:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You should send Joey a patch to use windowmaker

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:22:21 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: It's a free Jon Johansen!
 <rnjacobs>

If it has to be a DE, it should be GNUstep, not just wm :p

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:30:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

argh we were supposed to release on Tuesday why do I have release
blockers now I suck :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:31:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

also our QA processes suck. I'm seriously thinking about booking Best
Buy out for a night on release freeze and testing on all the hardware
on display

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:33:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:59:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That'd be hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 18:59:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(re: "booking best buy")

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 20:45:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, is it time to start meeping at ALSA?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 21:27:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

dammit DKMS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 21:54:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Why does running aplay raise my volume??

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 21:57:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

boss is now watching "Never Gonna Give You Up"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 21:58:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:00:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

System reliability is one of the key parts of their value prop.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:05:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Server team lead wandered over to complain about my Lady Gaga test
case and said that I should use that song instead, which made everyone
wonder if it was still on Youtube

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:06:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I kept on trying to say something but it was all snark that explained nothing -rnjacobs <ismith>

> still on Youtube

... duh?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:06:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It was DMCA'd for a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:39:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i,i ==, the logical XNOR operation

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:39:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So = is the bitwise XNOR operation?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:40:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If you're lucky.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:43:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... we have NFS support in our code?  noooooo

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  9 22:55:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> home

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:39:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

w00t

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:41:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Sigh, I should decide if I'm goin to LinuxCon/Plumbers/etc.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:41:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Plumbers > LinuxCon from what I hear

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:41:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's in San Diego, which is not too hard to get to, but also not
trivial

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:41:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right. They're the same week, so might as well just go, but yeah,
registering for Plumbers and not LinuxCon sounds like the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:41:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Although I think the security summit requires LinuxCon registration,
not Plumbers?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:45:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I was considering going to Plumbers, but San Diego doesn't sound like
much fun.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:46:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I had a great time in San Diego the one time I went (with my parents).

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:47:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I went when it was in Cambridge (at the Hyatt behind IS&T) and enjoyed
it

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:49:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Man, I should find myself an employer that will pay for me to go to
these things. (Or take time off, I guess.)

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:50:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

LCA is a tough one, since, well, Australia.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:54:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: just checking: your penis is not currently grey, is it? -kdrinkwa <ismith>

You work for vmware, right?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:54:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, but I'm an intern.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:56:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is LCA worth it?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:56:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like, for someone not in Australia?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:56:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm told it's a great conference.

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Thu Aug  9 23:57:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Also, I just want to go to Australia. I have friends there into free
software and linux, they're likely to be at it."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:54:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oops, looked at GRUB's source code.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:55:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The correct answer here is -> sleep, but at this point I'll have
nightmares about real mode

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:55:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh god

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:56:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I actually had a dream about bootloaders the other day.  Luckily, I
can't remember it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:56:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Most of what I remember is waking up and saying to myself "Yep.  I was
just dreaming about LILO.  Damnit brain.  Damnit."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:56:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hehehe

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:57:41 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

in all seriousness, do you actually also have disturbingly nerdy
dreams sometime, or were you just being funny?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:58:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I was being funny, but I do have disturbingly nerdy dreams sometimes

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:58:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Here, this comment is good nightmare fuel:

  /* FIXME.  */
  /*  asm volatile ("lidt %0" : : "m" (idt_desc)); */
  state.ebp = state.edi = state.ebx = 0;
  state.esi = real_mode_target;
  state.esp = real_mode_target;
  state.eip = params->code32_start;
  return grub_relocator32_boot (relocator, state);

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:59:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I'm a mixture of both pleased and displeased that I have no idea what
that does.  I've never looked at GRUB source code, and I last looked
at LILO source at least 7 years ago and have basically forgotten how
such things work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 03:59:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

translation:  "it's masochistic of me, but can you please explain that
to me?"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:01:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's from when it's about to load a Linux kernel. I'm ... sure there's
a good reason there's commented-out code to set the IDT

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:04:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, this thing is fun reading
http://wiki.osdev.org/MBR_%28x86%29

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:04:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"fun" ;)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:06:37 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: A rope may form a trail in a maze.
 <rnjacobs>

"Fun", if you like pretending you're a game developer in the 1980s who needed
to implement direct-boot-to-game for copy protection ;)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:06:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So I clicked one or two links and found an (unsourced, sadly) claim
that Windows 9x implemented disk access by going to virtual-8086
modes and making BIOS calls (since the BIOS is real-mode) and then
exiting back to protected mode.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:06:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:07:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I thought copy protection in those days was implemented using
intentional bad sectors?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:08:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

At least a few of the ancient XT games didn't use anything DOS-compatible on
the floppies...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:09:53 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahhh, XT games predate me.  I wake up around DOS 3.1 or 4.01,
depending on how you measure.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:10:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Me too; I just grew morbidly fascinated with the idea

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:10:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I had no idea that computer games before then didn't use the DOS.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:10:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

DOS doesn't provide much to a game, does it? (The BIOS certainly does)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:10:53 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

"It's not like DOS 1 did @i{anything} but get in the way"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:11:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I donno, it provided files. ;)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:11:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I guess that... might be useful... to some games

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:12:20 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

When you're working with single-sided drives and had to fit your game into 2x160KB.... maybe not :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:22:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hahaha I love how the interrupt you call when the MBR can't boot
anything is the "start casette BASIC" interrupt"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:23:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I kind of want to send qemu a patch to make that interrupt work.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:24:39 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

...and, what, include a copy of BASICA with qemu's source?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:24:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Sure!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:25:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It already depends on iPXE, BASICA can't be bigger.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:25:22 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From: It's a charcoal briquette, smoking away.
 <rnjacobs>

hah!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:27:43 2012 Host: ip-67-202-107-32.chi2.nerios.net
From:  <rnjacobs>

looks like bwbasic would be the obvious OSS candidate

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:28:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Apparently, according to Wikipedia, BASICA is the additional code
needed to have an actually interesting BASIC assuming you have
cassette BASIC in ROM. If you don't, you can get the cassette BASIC
routines + BASICA as GW-BASIC.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:29:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oooh, interesting

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:33:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-msseregparm? This is either the best idea or the worst idea

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:34:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you know, i've never understood the difference between
*basic
*basica
*gwbasic

other than i remember using basica and gwbasic a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:34:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I guess this is just "pass float and double arguments on
registers, the way regparm passes int ones in registers", not "pass
_even more_ arguments in _even more_ registers"

Class: geofft Instance: status.d
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:35:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, looks like GW-BASIC is MS porting BASICA for platforms where they
can't assume cassette BASIC in ROM. (and BASICA adds stuff like
graphics and sound)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:36:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Little things like "line and circle drawing", you know, nothing important :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 04:37:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: +TRY to live your lost illusions / They are the spice of life+ - enigma
 <rnjacobs>

But I only know this now that I'm reading wikipedia:BASICA

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:41:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woah, there exists Parallels Workstation for Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:42:28 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

what niche does that solve?  iirc (mac) people like parallels because
it does opengl better or something?

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:42:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The number of hypervisors in my world just increased. This never
happens.

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:45:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't actually know what Parallels offers on the Mac. I assumed it
just managed to come out before VMware Fusion and they're equivalent
products with some people who've been using Parallels forever and some
features better in one and some better in the other?

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:46:27 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i'm reasonably certain about my opengl assertion, i recall a bunch of
CAD people liking parallels because their cad tools worked, which to
me says something about opengl support.

Class: geofft Instance: parallels
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:46:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Quite believable.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 06:59:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, Juju is on my giant list of things to play with when I have
free time.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:00:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also my free time is not increasing by staying up until 4 AM -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:00:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Read what? n - YUM YUM. You feel in touch with the Universal Oneness. <ezyang>

Good night goefft.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:00:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Thought process: "hm, it'd be nice if you could just use Juju to
deploy yourself a Kerberos realm and AFS cell")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:01:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

what's juju?  google is failing me

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:01:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

juju.ubuntu.com

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:02:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

compiling some software by hand : apt :: setting up some servers by
hand : juju, is the theory, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:03:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ah!  yes, clearly you should make afs cell/krb realm be a juju thing
;)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:03:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

find a bored SIPB prospective and make them do it

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:03:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"i will give you O($5/month)" ;) ;)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:03:50 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

heh, ok

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:04:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I guess, alternatively, I could ask for more space in my sipb cell...
is that easy these days or hard...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:04:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

easy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:05:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

team-rocket:/afs/sipb/service/partitions geofft$ fs df *
Volume Name                  kbytes      used     avail %used
disk.ronald-ann.a         703545800 175018216 528527584   25%
disk.ronald-ann.b         719046088 147830759 571215329   21%
disk.rosebud.a            703545800 171383782 532162018   24%
disk.rosebud.b            719046088 171377712 547668376   24%

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:05:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Last I checked the answer is "we think we have more space than we know
what to do with", and as far as I can tell that hasn't changed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:06:33 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ah, nice.  who has bits to give me 20 more GB?  is this just a "ask
-c sipb when east coasters are awake" thing?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:06:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

basically.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:08:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i'm laughing pretty hard that once again, SIPB/MIT/"us" are apparently
a few years ahead of "the commercial world" at providing a service I
want.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 07:08:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"as usual"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 10:10:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Well, we try to not have individual (backed-up) volumes be larger than
about 20G; if you want more space we try to get you to shard it.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 10:44:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking) Win9x implemented it that way if you had a weird disk or
controller that its built-in 32-bit drivers couldn't drive.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 10 10:50:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or if it noticed that anything else had hooked the BIOS disk
interrupt before it did. This meant if your disk access suddenly
started being reaaaally slow, it was a pretty good indicator that you
had a virus that hooked the BIOS disk interrupt for its nefarious
purposes, as many did)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:47:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just passed a Google Self-Driving Car on Cesar Chavez.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:47:24 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: We do what we must, because we can <eichin>

oooh :)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:47:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It appears to be human-controlled though

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:47:51 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Don't they still need someone in the driver's seat outside nevada?

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:47:55 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

they have humans baysitting it

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:48:30 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: the sunglasses of justice <eichin>

they announced a day or two ago that they no longer
need *two* engineers in the car, they're letting them out with just
one, but they still have to be in the driver's seat.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:48:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

Carsten is working on those!

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:49:07 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: A man's best friends:  a Harley, a Beretta and a Gund. <eichin>

(and that they've clocked 300k miles fleet wide)

they still "learn" when a human is driving, or at least they did...

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:49:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: High costs of living and high living will come down. <ctl>

I believe the drivers are not engineers, but professional drivers.
Supposedly it's very boring.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:49:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The guy wasin the driver's seat, but he also seemed to be actually
driving them

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:49:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*it

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:51:55 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: If you are an alien, how come you sound like you're from the north? -- Lots of planets have a north! <eichin>

(definitely a project I would be happy to work on the boring parts of :)

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:54:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We are not Athena <yoz>

ctl: I've sat in the passenger's seat of one with an engineer behind
the wheel.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 14:55:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Inspected for wholesomeness by U.S. Department of Agriculture <yoz>

This has led me to a number of understandings that are at odds with
what's being reported by techblahblah.

Class: geofft Instance: sf
Time: Fri Aug 10 15:03:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The result is that our possibilities of wealth may run to waste for a
time --— perhaps for a long time. <ctl>

Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:18:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.suse.com/blogs/uefi-secure-boot-details/
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/15818.html

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:21:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The separate Machine Owner Key DB thing looks shockingly sensible

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:21:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:21:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Though Ksplice is still screwed :( )

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:22:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like Fedora/Ubuntu/us/etc. will still need to run around and get
mjg59's shim signed by MS once for each of our certificates
hard-coded, but this also means that there's a useful thing that's
MS-signed for end users with custom kernels.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:23:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:23:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What's Ksplice's issue? Ubuntu isn't doing anything to restrict kernel
modules :)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:23:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We have a whole lot of legacy customers still on RHEL and
derivatives...

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:23:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Are those legacy customers on UEFI hardware?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:24:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't know, but they may well be in the future, and we haven't said
when, if ever, we'll start desupporting distro vendors.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:24:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is Fedora (and RHEL) disabling module loading entirely, or merely
requiring signed kernel modules? If signed, then you could try to
convince them to accept MOK-signed kernel modules even on the distro
kernel

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:25:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Even if we can do that, we still have to get everyone to install our
key in the preboot environment. Which will suck for companies with
hundreds of machines registered for uptrack.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:25:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And, uh, you guys can just go and get a shim with a Ksplice key
hard-coded, and go off and sign more-or-less-unmodified distro kernels

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:25:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Same as we're getting a MokaFive key hard-coded and signing Ubuntu
kernels + VMware's modules and such

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:26:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like you already lose on the ability to install Ksplice without
rebooting. Given that you're rebooting, make them switch to a kernel
that accepts Ksplice-signed modules and make them switch shim loaders
to yours. This is not hard (and I think can be done with no user
interaction, since both RHEL's and your shim loaders will be
MS-signed)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:27:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I would imagine that there'd be, say, some IPMI-based method for key
management (at least on servers).

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:27:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah...it just still sucks, and weakens the the "integrates seamlessly
into your environment, no initial reboot needed" thing

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:28:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh well. We'll deal with this when we have to deal with it.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:28:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, but $verybigcustomer had to reboot (and schedule downtime very
publicly) and that was fine. And there really is no way around it,
absent the Ksplice Sploit-Finding Strike Force making sure they have
an exploit for every distro kernel

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:56:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

lol, The Economist blamed Knight Capital's losses on an "errant
logarithm"

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:56:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"oops, meant to exponentiate instead"

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:57:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:57:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm having trouble following that line of reasoning.

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:57:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Did they hire the eCryptfs authors or something?

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Fri Aug 10 16:57:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Sorry guys, this code only runs in log(n) time, not log(log(n)).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:30:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hah, dotcom.com redirects to netsol

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:30:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Speaking of which, i,i www.pinterest-for-men.com

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:31:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*facepalm*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:33:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

I lack the else context, but someone uses the e-mail address
dot@dotat.at.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:33:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Someone used "bubble.com" as a metasyntactic variable and I was
curious if it was interesting. (It's not)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:33:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

There are like 3 or 4 prominent such variations, I always get them
confused.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:34:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

e.g. mako@atdot.cc

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:34:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

a friend owns org.org which i still think is the coolest domain name.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:53:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

enterprise wifi AP manufacturers, die in a fire

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:53:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

or at least stop being too clever for your own good

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:54:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh ugh, this is the "knock out competing APs" technology, isn't it?
IIRC MIT's Cisco APs kinda implement that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:54:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cast Off 3/4 <kchen>

That exists?  How does it work?  (Does it have a name?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:55:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

kchen: I think they basically spoof the other APs by sending de-associate
frames

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:56:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"rogue detection" seems to be something of a name that's used?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:56:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

at least that's what I recall of one of the ways to do it

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:56:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==danjared sounds familiar.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:56:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

i.e. pretty dickish

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:56:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

There's some other stuff done to try to see if the "rogue" is on the same
network

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:57:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:57:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(got to play around with the Cisco controller pika got from the FSILG
network upgrade project)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:57:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway the theory is that this is what was causing the client (STA)
firmware crashes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:57:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

client (STA)?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:58:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(STA is apparently what you call a device connecting to an AP)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:58:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:58:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

how would it have caused firmware crashes?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:59:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

like, so unfortunate race condition caused by all the de-associates?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:59:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

some*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 17:59:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I dunno?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 18:00:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"STA" is short for "station", as opposed to "AP", I think

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 18:01:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 19:08:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Now reading the El Torito spec

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 19:37:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> reading the El Torito spec

Have you paused to consider where your life went terribly wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 10 19:37:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:05:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I should really write the FUSE NFS client...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:11:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: So that you understand how serious I am...  I'm going to say this in English <eichin>

BITD wesommer wrote a commandline one.  with an ss interface :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:14:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:15:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ss?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:15:51 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Why is this thing safe for me and not for my keys? <eichin>

"what discuss uses"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:16:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: "What's your totem animal?"   "bulldozer." <eichin>

("subsystem", named after the Multics interface of that name.
TCL should have replaced it but never really did.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 10 23:18:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"TIL"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:22:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

zctl, uh, used to (?) use it, too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:24:19 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... the most clever application of poet Emily Dickinson in a game... <eichin>

and kadmin.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:34:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"... the National Security Agency, America's GHCQ, ..."

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:34:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*GCHQ

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:34:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Adorable.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:35:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"DefCon, a big hackers' convention held in July"

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:35:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

this is the best article.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:37:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

which article?

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:37:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huawei, last week's cover story

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:38:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"The company that spooked the world" is the title. It's on suspicions
that Huawei is sufficiently controlled by the Chinese government as to
put backdoors in equipment it sells the West

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 00:57:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Some experts actually fear that the effort to crack down on bath
salts may be counterproductive, if the bans and busts give the drugs
more publicity. Indeed, some companies that sell traditional bath
salts, the kind that are used in the bath, have reported a spike in
sales."

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:03:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:04:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "NERD."  "SAYS THE SIPB MEMBER ON ZEPHYR." "SHUSH YOU." - lexrj, ismith <wings>

Why are bath salts being cracked down on?

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:05:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

erm. "bath salts" refers to a collection of designer recreational
chemicals notably including methylone and mephedrone, particularly in
florida.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:05:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:05:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

so..... they're not actually cracking down on salts that go in baths,
per se, in most cases.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:06:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I was a simple girl with an evil plan. - Wilhelmina, Ugly Betty <wings>

Then I... am confused about that last sentence

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:06:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Because the dude who ate the other dude's face was allegedly high on
(the drug) bath salts

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:06:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

they're crackign down on "bath salts," wich is raising the concept of
"bath salts" in general in the public consciousness, which is
increasing sales of /actual/ bath salts, and also probably drugs.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:06:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

*cracking

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:06:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They were legal, since they hadn't been made illegal yet.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:07:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

erm. so both methylone and mephadrone were scheduled before the
face-eating incident, but not by very much. not sure about any of the
others.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:07:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But the Economist claims that the publicity towards this
too-obscure-to-be-illegal drug is raising sales of both it and its
namesake

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:07:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: China has so many people, they can afford to generalize Rule 34 to non-porn things. - ismith <wings>

Ah, I see

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:08:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

if only weed would increase the popularity of weeds

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:09:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"The drugs have, at least until recently, been legal.... In October
2011 the Drug Enforcement Administration added several of the
ingredients most comonly used in 'bath salts' to the
controlled-substances schedule"

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:09:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess the face-eating thing was May, so sure, but there was
apparently a bust involving 90 arrests two weeks ago.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:10:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They're called "bath salts" because they look like bath salts and are
labeled "bath salts" when sold. They are not actually bath salts.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:10:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, the DEA can declare new controlled substances arbitrarily on
its own recognizance?

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:11:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

not quite, but pretty close

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:11:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I feel like there's something vaguely wrong here

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:11:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

methylone, for example, was "emergency scheduled" initially, resulting
in it being temporarily treated as if it was scheduled (sched. 1)
pending further review.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:12:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"and Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store"

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:12:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

i mean. most of them are /technically/ scheduled under the analogs
act, but strictly speaking /everything/ is scheduled under the analogs
act, so that's a harder cell.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:12:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

also that

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:13:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

the analogs act?

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:13:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

chemicals which are "structural analogs" of schedules substances can
be prosecuted as if they were the schedueld substances.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:14:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

i can pull up the original thing in a minute.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:14:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

21 USC S 813

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:15:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

and S802, i guess

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:15:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act

not gonna bother copying in relevent text, the full text is pretty
short.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:16:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

TIL

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:18:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

case law seems to indicate "also a drug, but different effects"
probably means not applicable, "similar looking when drawn on paper
and a pro-drug" means definitely applicable, anywhere in between is
pretty much up in the air.

turns out that.... that thing where everyone everywhere is actually
illegal just in case someone needs to prosecute them? it's actually
literally true.

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:19:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:19:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Weeird, apparently "PanHellenic" means "some political party in
Greece", not "sororities"

Class: geofft Instance: economist
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:19:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Whoda thunk

Class: geofft Instance: economist.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:20:00 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

It's i _think_ illegal to have fun with substances entirely, even w/o
the analog act, but I don't know my source to cite on that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:31:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I printed out a voter registration form at work today!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:31:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I feel vaguely civically competent.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 01:46:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Some people never vote. Don't feel bad. 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 05:17:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I want asheesh.org.org and everyone's mind will be blown

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 05:20:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

There is a FUSE NFSv4 client, iirc, used by CITI (U Mich) during NFSv4
development?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 05:22:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yay! I love that form.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 05:45:12 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Do you know Jory?

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:00:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, my blog's spam backlog is a disaster (and I think I have a
handful of spam comments verified using pingbacks, too). Should I
just give up on comments?

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:28:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Are you running wordpress? Akismet worked pretty well for me.

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:29:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, but I also have an annoying backlog of comments

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:29:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which I could probably just punt wholesale, maaybe filtering for
things from mit.edu.

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:30:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

yeah, that seems fine

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:30:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's also not clear I want to use Wordpress -- if I don't care about
comments, I can just blog in straight HTML in a git repo or something

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:35:13 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's a pogo stick that takes high-quality digital photos and plays Sokoban. <eichin>

if you're willing to make comments Someone
Else's Problem, there's always disqus...

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:35:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

write a zephyrbot to post in batches to
-c geofftblog -i SHA1(text+timestamp)
And listen for one of ['y','yes','++','=='] or 
['n','no','x','d','--']

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:35:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I kind of hate Disqus, it never works for me.

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:36:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There is the approach of making it Someone Else's Problem by posting
everything to Reddit or HN, but I don't think I actually want to do
that

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:40:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, uh, how does XS work?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:40:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Ha. Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:41:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Do you have a more specific question?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:41:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Otherwise, uh, `perldoc perlxs` and then bash your head against the
nearest hard surface until you attain englightenment.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:42:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I dropped

void
new_command_alias(from, to)
       char *from
       char *to
       CODE:
       {
               owl_cmddict_add_alias(owl_global_get_cmddict(&g), from, to);
          }

into perlglue.xs, but I'm getting

Undefined subroutine &BarnOwl::new_command_alias called at
perl//modules/IRC/lib/BarnOwl/Module/IRC.pm line 346.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:42:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

perlglue.c implies it went into BarnOwl::internal. Hm

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:42:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aha.

sub new_command {
    my $name = shift;
    my $func = shift;
    my $args = shift || {};
    my %args = (
        summary     => "",
        usage       => "",
        description => "",
        %{$args}
    );

    BarnOwl::Internal::new_command($name, $func, $args{summary}, $args{usage}, $args{description});
}

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:43:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

You added it after the

MODULE = BarnOwl                PACKAGE = BarnOwl::Internal

line

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:44:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, can I just add it to the non-internal bits and not write a
wrapper? Is that acceptable?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:44:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:44:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

The main reason for the wrapper is if there's a non-trivial interface
and we want to write perl code to munge arguments or something

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:45:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I see the note at the top. All right

Class: geofft Instance: blogging
Time: Sat Aug 11 12:48:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

FWIW I use pyblosxom and process spam comments that come into my inbox
by piping them through a program that removes them.

Class: geofft Instance: utf-8
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:18:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~$ LANG=en_US date +"%c"
Sat Aug 11 10:18:27 2012
geofft@leveret:~$ LANG=en_US.UTF-8 date +"%c"
Sat 11 Aug 2012 10:18:30 AM PDT

Class: geofft Instance: utf-8
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:19:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wat.

Class: geofft Instance: utf-8
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:20:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Hmm, that doesn't repro for me on OS X or on Linerva.

Class: geofft Instance: utf-8
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:21:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, do I not have a non-UTF-8 locale installed?

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:26:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> how does XS work?

Very, very poorly.

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:29:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I spent a lot of time fighting it in perlvariables. Then davidben
figured out how to implement approximately the same functionality with
much less XS. Then I wept.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:30:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://youtu.be/O2rGTXHvPCQ

Class: geofft Instance: barnowl
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:31:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's easily the worst extension API I have ever, ever seen.

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:36:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I just heard you play that, or else I would (:

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:41:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I just wish IRC were anywhere near as awesome as portrayed

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:45:44 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

asheesh:  starkingly answer my question :)

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 13:58:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ewige Blumenkraft <mherdeg>

wtf, the guy is actually speaking leet?

Class: geofft Instance: irc
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:02:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I believe it is pronounced "1337"

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.on.paul.ryan
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:03:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/1CyfE.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:20:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, I should call Sonic and get some more static IPs or
something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:20:52 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

Wait, your ISP will provide static IPs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:21:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We get one for free, four for $10/month, and eight for $20/month

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:21:33 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

=jealous=

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:21:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also a shell account on some crappy Linux 2.4 box, and a free phone
number, and a free web form for sending faxes and a free second phone
number for receiving faxes via email

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:22:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And VPN service (if you're behind some possibly-sketchy ISP)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:22:09 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

How much is the plan overall?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:22:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

i,i "Do they have a Usenet server?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:22:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think so

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:22:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

$50/month

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:23:01 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

What bandwidth limits do they quote?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:23:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

I'm pretty sure Sonic is "as fast as your DSL circuit will allow"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:23:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Unfortunately, there's no correlation to Moore's Law for sucking. <ismith>

They say up to 20Mbps, but actual speeds will vary based on the usual
DSL constraints.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:24:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah. They market at 20 Mbps, it could be up to 24 if you're lucky

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:24:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth, you make a good clyde. Clearly you should do this full-time. -zhangc <ismith>

(They don't do tiers.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:24:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "You feel productive!  You must have been working." -ezyang <ismith>

I get 9Mbps where I am.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:24:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm getting like 14.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:25:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, other than it being DSL, Sonic is approximately the best
people ever

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:25:57 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

And supposedly they're building fiber infrastrcutre?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:26:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: rms, too, is forever. -danjared <ismith>

Their phone support people are actually pretty competent, and willing
to talk to you without being all scripted.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:26:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Awww, adorable emo optimistic black souled piper. -lexrj <ismith>

Ish.  In some neigborhoods.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:26:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In some cities, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:26:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't think SFBA is immediately on their plans, but it sounds like
it'll be awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:27:07 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

Just looking at their website, it looks like they're a pretty
geek-friendly company.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:27:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Also they are a very pro-consumer ISP in terms of things like being
unfriendly to Big Media, and unlike e.g. Comcast, aren't incentivized
to give you bandwidth caps or shape Hulu traffic or something to get
you to watch actual TV.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:28:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Getting a static IP and reverse DNS for it was super easy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:29:36 2012 Host: WAREHOUSE-THREE-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

Yeah if I ever move to the land of Katy Perry and Snoop Dogg^WLion,
this is totally something I'm looking into.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:29:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hrm, you guys should solve this for me -- where in the bay area do i
want to put a physical locked 1U box?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:40:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

We get a VPN service?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:40:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:41:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://wiki.sonic.net/wiki/VPN_Service

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:42:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Looks like a standard Cisco concentrator

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:42:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Linux *2.4*?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:43:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

$ uname -a
Linux bolt.sonic.net 2.4.37.5 #1 SMP Mon Aug 17 10:15:36 PDT 2009 i686 unknown

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:43:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are there... supported distros still using 2.4?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:44:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

$ cat /etc/redhat-release 
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:44:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

daayyyumn

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:44:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"Surely there's a local root for that"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:45:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"It's too old, they hadn't invented vulnerabilities yet"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:46:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I used RHL7.3! Good times.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:47:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, actually, no, that's the distro whose crappy dependency
handling partially resulted in my uninstalling glibc, which worked...
poorly.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:47:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Also, news.sonic.net, for those who were curious)

Class: geofft Instance: asa.wq
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:51:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Every year, we've gotten an exception from the recruitment rules
(because we're an extra-special group) to fly a blimp over the campus
advertising to frosh. We can keep doing this, right?

"Possibly, but you must contact us in advance."

Class: geofft Instance: asa.wq
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:51:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: asa.wq
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:52:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 14:59:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

 NOTE: This program is not a reliable contraceptive method. It does
 neither help to prevent sexual transmision diseases like AIDS.

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:00:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/cycle

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:00:47 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

lulz

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:00:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In mostly unrelated news, there's a package called "sextractor"

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:01:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"I'm uncomfortable that I could guess which package that was from
your quote"

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:03:31 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

i,i Conflicts: python-eunuchs

Class: geofft Instance: debian.package.q
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:03:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hahaha, that is much more appropriate than I expected

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:29:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

[test]

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:29:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, is my router blocking zephyr?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:29:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Shouldn't this mostly work if there's only one person using zephyr
behind a NAT?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:30:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Mostly, but I think only mostly?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:31:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Not that I remember how Zephyr works.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 15:47:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oh, right, linerva went down, of course you'd switch to team-rocket.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:32:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Trade Perk Up <kchen>

You can Google for a page on nimlabs.org that talks about how to do
zephyr behind a NAT.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:32:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I thought that step wasn't necessary any more.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:32:54 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Why on earth would you think that?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:33:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I thought you removed the IP address check

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:35:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And in fact I don't have "problem part 1". "Problem part 2" is my
issue

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:38:34 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

removing the IP address check is not enough.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:38:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"It seems to work"

Class: geofft Instance: pubsubhubbub
Time: Sat Aug 11 16:39:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, PubSubHubbub is not actually a push protocol, it's just a callback
one, right? So a client needs to have a public address?

Class: geofft Instance: pubsubhubbub
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:03:24 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's simply a matter of freedom of pleasure, a right which is *not* guaranteed by the Constitution... <eichin>

I don't think so? I thought the client still opens the connection...

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:06:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From:  ... the better you look, the more you'll see. <eichin>

yeah, step 2 is the "hard" part; you're getting packets
spontaneously from the zephyr servers, basically, they're not "responses"

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:08:15 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It might look like I'm doing nothing, but at the cellular level I'm really quite busy. <eichin>

(does the zephyr server actually respond to the sending
address, instead of the one in the packet? I guess that would be
useful if one were trying to make this case work.)

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:17:29 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think it responds to the zhm for control messages, but sends to the
address in the packet for notices sent by virtue of subscriptions.

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:17:47 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(And, of course, notices don't necessarily come from the server you
subscribed to.)

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:20:34 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Velocity squared is like shipping and handling. It'll get you every time. -- Edward Tufte <eichin>

that's what I thought was going on, which means that
you still need Nick's step 1, or equivalent, to rewrite the address in
the subscription packets somehow.
http://www.nimlabs.org/zephyrnat/index.html

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:22:33 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Well, it's worse than that; the port number of the zwgc is not the
same as the port number of the zhm.  So the NAT association you make
by sending the subscription won't work even if you sent the IP address
visible to the server.

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:22:46 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(s/zwgc/barnowl/ in real life, of course.)

Class: geofft Instance: z
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:29:13 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: if you haven't found compiler bugs before - chances are you didn't this time either <eichin>

(or maybe geofft only *thinks* it's working :-} )

Class: geofft Instance: afarrell
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:39:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And here I am arguing about Secure Boot on LWn

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:47:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"It's like Christmas in July, in August!"

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:47:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I'll note that it is Ramadan.
Not that Ramadan has anything to do with Jesus.

Class: geofft Instance: roomq
Time: Sat Aug 11 17:54:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dude, don't blame this on graduation. You were /always/ a bad influence. -wings <ismith>

Does Christmas?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sat Aug 11 19:14:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Gah, if I keep up this argument any more I'm going to start claiming
that MS isn't a monopoly or something

Class: geofft Instance: noisebridge
Time: Sat Aug 11 20:40:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

lol, ran into preeya, apparently both of us decided to check out
Noisebridge at the same time

Class: geofft Instance: noisebridge
Time: Sat Aug 11 20:43:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"nerds of a feather"

Class: geofft Instance: not-making-this-up
Time: Sat Aug 11 21:02:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Pre-order today and receive a free whale oil USB lamp at launch"

Class: geofft Instance: not-making-this-up
Time: Sat Aug 11 21:03:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

what product is this?

Class: geofft Instance: not-making-this-up
Time: Sat Aug 11 21:04:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

A video game?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Sat Aug 11 21:04:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yay mjg59 is in the argument now

Class: geofft Instance: not-making-this-up
Time: Sat Aug 11 21:05:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Is lroyden subbed to this class?

Class: geofft Instance: noisebridge
Time: Sat Aug 11 23:22:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*amused*

Class: geofft Instance: debian.tutorials
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:02:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

afarrell, asheesh: http://raphaelhertzog.com/go/quilt

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:05:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That reminds me. Hey people, I'm on app.net (as @geofft). If you have
$50-$100 to drop on something that looks more likely to be
zephyr-for-the-masses-able than Twitter, you should sign up so I have
people to talk to.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:06:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What makes this better than Twitter or Facebook or Yammer or whatever?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:06:53 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Do they give you kick(start)backs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:08:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Remember, hedgehogs don't have PhDs. -manayach <ismith>

So ... you want me to spend $100 for something that Facebook will give
me for free?  To get rid of the ads that I already mostly don't see?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:08:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Basically?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:09:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I can talk to yourself in whatever person she wants. - shawest (as wings) <wings>

"How's their privacy policy?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:09:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: They aren't capricious about how third-party clients are
supposed to work. The intention is for third-party clients to exist
and be the ~default way of interacting with it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:10:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is something you get by them not needing to do ads to get
revenue.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:11:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Begone, demons of the network!  I smite your rogue DHCP server! -oremanj <ismith>

I feel like this is a good thing, and something that I'd be willing to
pay money for, but $100 for something likely to be another G+ is
steep.

OTOH, the massive hipster cred of being one of the original members is
tempting.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:11:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hah*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:12:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: it's a pity MIT doesn't have a safeword ... - ismith <wings>

"Why do you want hipster cred?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:12:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm...yeah, not feeling particularly compelled to buy into this. "I
already have Zephyr now"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:13:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://daltoncaldwell.com/what-twitter-could-have-been
http://ycombinator.com/rfs3.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:13:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, name squatting with an uncommon last name is a lot easier.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:13:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

RFS 3 is basically obsolete now. It made sene a few years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:14:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

==
Also, I don't see how this is going to get enough people on it.
What incentive do say, NATO and the Taliban have to argue over this
rather than Twitter?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:14:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "He's just cranky." "It's that time of the build cycle again." -ismith, pquimby <ismith>

Shaddap.

Love,

Ian Smith (No, not that Ian Smith.  No, not that one either.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:14:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> NATO and the Taliban

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:14:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Begone, demons of the network!  I smite your rogue DHCP server! -oremanj <ismith>

Wait, do ... no.  That can't be true.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:15:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

ismith:  heh.  I feel your pain

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 00:26:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> I don't see how this is going to get enough people on it.  What
> incentive do say, NATO and the Taliban have to argue over this rather
> than Twitter?

They're not targetting becoming the social network that takes over the
world, I think. (Although a sustainable business model that doesn't
involve ads puts them in a better position to out-survive Twitter.
Note that we're already saying Twitter instead of Facebook.)

I think basically if you read Dalton's post it's arguing that Twitter
chose to be the place that had all the content but was
developer-hostile (by being free and growing their userbase that way,
and then realizing they needed to make money without charging users),
and there should be something nifty that's developer-friendly. It will
still have content, just as Twitter still has developers, but not all
the content.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:02:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, interesting, while the proposed spec for third-party developers
using the API appears to involve an API secret for OAuth, they have a
client auth flow that simply does not use it at all

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:04:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I always incite violence with teachers. I don't know why. -wings <ismith>

Is the idea to, at some point, open it up to devs who don't pay money,
and depend solely on client subscriptions?  Or are api licenses part
of their model?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:18:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't know what their long-term plans are for subscription costs,
although I would imagine "only go down from here" is a good rule to
live by

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:57:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We now have a toaster oven!

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:58:26 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

_good_

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Sun Aug 12 01:58:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

$housemate and I are eating bagels and waffles because we can

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Aug 12 02:54:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oops, it's almost midnight -> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: debian.tutorials
Time: Sun Aug 12 04:06:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow that is great

Class: geofft Instance: app.net
Time: Sun Aug 12 17:31:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: why can't they be cuddly ghosts in the machine? -rnjacobs <ismith>

Geofft, you have an empty stream!

Class: geofft Instance: app.net
Time: Sun Aug 12 17:33:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

i,i Ghostbusters

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Sun Aug 12 23:07:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I need a better way to store things for later reading. Bookmarks
aren't really a queue format

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Sun Aug 12 23:07:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe I want Instapaper or Evernote...

Class: geofft Instance: web
Time: Sun Aug 12 23:11:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Evernote has an emacs mode.

Class: geofft Instance: work.mq
Time: Sun Aug 12 23:12:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3qg9ue/

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:19:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Housemate was watching Boston Legal. I commented to him, "This is the
show with the Star Trek guy that's not Reading Rainbow."

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:20:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We're bad at emotions and good at science. Welcome to MIT. -geofft <ismith>

... ++

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:21:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

He then tells me, just now, that he'd never connected Reading Rainbow
and Geordi.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:21:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need to get better at shooting yaks in the head. -afarrell <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:22:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My branch, your branch, my branch your branch! -pbaranay <ismith>

(So, I saw RR long before TNG.  BUT STILL.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:28:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I assume this is neither Asheesh nor Greg?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:30:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, this is Mark

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 01:33:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

> the show with the Star Trek guy that's not Reading Rainbow

what, Quantum Leap?  ;)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 03:16:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which Star Trek guy?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Mon Aug 13 03:20:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Mmm, chicken

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Mon Aug 13 03:21:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I decided to finally get around to defrosting and cooking the 1-2 lbs
of chicken that have been sitting around in our freezer forever

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:01:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.quora.com/Palo-Alto-CA/Why-are-there-so-many-questions-about-Palo-Alto-CA

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:03:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't really blame the asker...

http://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-so-many-churches-in-Palo-Alto-CA
http://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-so-many-rug-stores-in-Palo-Alto-CA
http://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-so-many-black-squirrels-in-Palo-Alto-CA
http://www.quora.com/Palo-Alto-CA/Why-are-there-so-many-banks-in-downtown-Palo-Alto
http://www.quora.com/Downtown-Palo-Alto/Why-are-there-so-many-Greek-restaurants-on-University-Avenue
http://www.quora.com/Food-and-Restaurants-in-Palo-Alto/Why-are-there-so-many-Italian-and-Mediterranean-restaurants-in-downtown-Palo-Alto

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:04:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Reminds me of
http://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-so-many-songs-about-rainbows

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:06:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm not sure I'd seen the double rainbow video before.

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:06:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... welcome to 2009

Class: geofft Instance: snerk
Time: Mon Aug 13 04:06:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

January 2010? Okay, or that

Class: geofft Instance: washington-post.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:07:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan share glow of honeymoon"

Class: geofft Instance: washington-post.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:07:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Mumble mumble legal mumble swing that way mumble ew mumble
Chick-Fil-A.

Class: geofft Instance: washington-post.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:09:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

+++ (re: chick-fil-a)

Class: geofft Instance: washington-post.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:10:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You play with TvTropes, you're gonna get burned. -pbaranay <ismith>

i,i Remember how Obama was a closet Muslim?  Well, Romney and Ryan
certainly aren't Muslim ...

Class: geofft Instance: washington-post.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:17:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Suddenly, ice cream cones. Everywhere. <brogan>

++

Class: geofft Instance: banking
Time: Mon Aug 13 05:47:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, this thing exists: https://simple.com/

I feel like "we're online-only", "we're technically competent", and
"we only offer a debit card" are reasonable things to want from a
bank, but I'm not sure it's so compelling as to make me want to switch

Class: geofft Instance: banking
Time: Mon Aug 13 06:43:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

Their CTO quit immediately after they launched their minimum viable
product, which is interesing.

Class: geofft Instance: banking
Time: Mon Aug 13 06:44:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I found that weird

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Mon Aug 13 10:17:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

[stark]
I was (somewhat facetiously) referring to Scott Bakula, who had the
lead role in both Quantum Leap and Star Trek:  Enterprise.

Class: geofft Instance: banking
Time: Mon Aug 13 13:48:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That's kind of like ING Direct

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:10:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Argh. Stayed up until 4 inexplicably (didn't really feel like going
to sleep), which means that of course I turned off my 8:30 alarm and
went back to sleep.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:10:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I should get on the melatonin train again

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:11:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The revolution will not be zephyrcast. -pbaranay <ismith>

I believe the vehicle you want is a wagon, geofft.  You want to get
back on the wagon.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:12:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aw, why is my most important ticket no fun :(

Class: geofft Instance: lwn-has-become-a-parody-of-itself
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:28:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"TizMee – Tizen compatibility layer for MeeGo"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:36:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

A 9x5" loaf pan is vaguely tempting, but I'm not sure I bake enough to
use it...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:57:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

You can make casseroles too. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:58:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I throw in a bunch of root veggies with soy sauce and a little bit of oil
and salt and it's fantastic after 30-40 minutes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 18:59:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

It's like the easiest form of cooking ever. You only have to chop and
mix!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:01:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is that the right pan for a casserole? I'd have assumed a larger,
shorter glass pan is more what I want...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:04:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh, that's like a bread pan, right? 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:05:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yeah, I guess so. If you don't have a larger glass pan, I would def
get one of those. :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:05:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

duttttttcccch oven

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:06:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

ykywt

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:06:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I do have a larger glass pan. I can't figure out what to do with a
bread pan other than, uh, bread

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:08:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yeah, there's not a lot. Make roasted veggies with your glass pan! I
usually do onions, potatoes, carrots, chinese eggplant, and some sort
of mushroom. Celery root is amazing and should be added if you get
it/have it. :D

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:09:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Bonus points for finding the mushrooms in your own yard (and properly
identifying them as edible).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:10:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

That terrifies me so much.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:11:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

extra bonus points if you start hallucinating

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:11:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

errr i wanted that an unclass down

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:12:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I would have expected roasting to make that not happen...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:12:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Not that I, uh, have a ton of experience with this

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:18:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

For some mushrooms, like false morels, cooking renders them harmless.
Not always the case. I'm not sure what mushrooms are in the area, but
if you get a good guide book, it should be fine. (Morels grow in the
PNW, so it was always fun to find one of those. They're delish too.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:19:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Or you can be boring and go to the store. You pick.

Class: geofft Instance: supost.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 19:56:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"the cuttest girls on campus"

Class: geofft Instance: supost.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:13:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

The cute ones are always the deadliest.

Class: geofft Instance: supost.q
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:19:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Homomorphosis: when a caterpillar turns into another caterpillar. <ageng>

a cut above the rest.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:29:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Now reading a document with the section heading "How Apple makes even
Microsoft seem well-behaved and conformant"...

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:29:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh yes, Apple EFI is special.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:30:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> If, in either case, the EFI application is non-graphical, its user
> interface won't be seen, because the Apple boot loader switches the
> display to graphical mode. If the application exits, returning to the
> firmware, the EFI boot manager is finally invoked. But since the EFI
> boot manager has a textual user interface, its user interface will
> not be visible, either. (A TextMode.efi EFI application is freely
> available that simply switches the display back to text mode and
> returns to the firmware.) 

wat

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:30:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You've seen mjg59's blog posts about apple efi, haven't you?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:48:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I,I which one?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:49:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I did say "posts"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 13 20:54:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah, I did miss that

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:07:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Bah. How do I find all files in a filesystem, including unlinked ones?

Class: geofft Instance: linux
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:08:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I can identify them if I get an inode)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:16:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That reminds me of this awesome New Yorker article comparing the
healthcare system's competence to the Cheesecake Factory's:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/13/120813fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:17:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Partly because I think the lessons the author claims healthcare can
learn from casual-dining are probably also lessons software
engineering can learn, and partly because _the Cheesecake Factory uses
psychohistory to be profitable_.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:29:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Where's the psychohistory?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:32:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"The company's target last year was at least 97.5-per-cent
efficiency: the managers aimed at throwing away no more than 2.5 per
cent of the groceries they bought, without running out. This seemed
to me an absurd target. Achieving it would require knowing in advance
almost exactly how many customers would be coming in and what they
were going to want, then insuring that the cooks didn’' spill or toss
or waste anything. Yet this is precisely what the organization has
learned to do. The chain-restaurant industry has produced a field of
computer analytics known as 'guest forecasting.'

"'We have forecasting models based on historical data -- the trend of the
past six weeks and also the trend of the previous year,' Gordon told
me. 'The predictability of the business has become astounding.' The
company has even learned how to make adjustments for the weather or
for scheduled events like playoff games that keep people at home.

"A computer program known as Net Chef showed Luz that for this one
restaurant food costs accounted for 28.73 per cent of expenses the
previous week. It also showed exactly how many chicken breasts were
ordered that week ($1,614 worth), the volume sold, the volume on hand,
and how much of last week's order had been wasted (three dollars'
worth). Chain production requires control, and they'd figured out how
to achieve it on a mass scale."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:36:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

This seems easy if your place-order-to-consumption latency is low
compared to the time it takes to eat a typical order.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:36:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, blah, I think I mean "spoilage time" for the second half.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:38:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I like that piece, if only for the idea that a Cheese Cake
Factory manager is even more frustrated by the incompetence
of medical service delivery than I am.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:38:54 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Yeah, assuming you can receive new chicken 7 days a week,
and chicken lasts 3 days, then you don't have to get the
prediction 97% accurate, just like 40% accurate (handwave)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:41:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Interesting, Bing's autocomplete is claiming a bunch of people are
seeing "Secure Boot isn't compatible with your PC" errors from the
Windows 8 preview installer

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:44:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

#ImShockedSHOCKED

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:49:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i,i Cisco Sanfran

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Aug 13 21:57:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Cisco Kid

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:24:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Not that I hugely expect anyone on my class to have lost more of
their life tilting at these windmills than I have, but) it appears
that UEFI PXE boot just does the obvious thing -- you send down an
EFI bootloader instead of PXELINUX, and if the receiving system is
UEFI-capable, it Just Works?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:24:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And by extrapolation, if you send down an MS-signed EFI bootloader, it
also Just Works?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:25:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess I could go test this.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:26:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

<pedantic>It's UEFI network boot, not UEFI PXE boot</pedantic>

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:26:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is it?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:26:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:26:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What's the distinction? Do you not use the PXE options for DHCP?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:27:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

and tftp and all that?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:27:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Or are you literally being pedantic and no more?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:32:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

literally pedantic

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:32:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

But UEFI natively has the ability to network boot and does not require
anything special in the NIC.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:33:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

And there's also the pain involved if you want the same setup to network
boot both BIOS and UEFI systems.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:34:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I'm reading
http://linux.dell.com/files/whitepapers/PXE_UEFI_Dell_SLES11_20oct2010.pdf
It doesn't look _horrible_.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:35:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I mean, compared to UEFI, Secure Boot, and PXE.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:35:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Apparently people have had trouble with RHEL and Ubuntu.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:35:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(And yeah, Stuart made that same naming mistake in his whitepaper.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:37:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Haha, I'm imagining an alternate Foundation series where Hari Seldon
was like "you guys are going to do exactly what you did last year,
but eat slightly more chicken nuggets, until the end of time".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:37:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:38:16 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Thanks to the power of compounding, the end of time will
come when the entire universe is converted to chicken
nuggets.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:38:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm just trying to imagine what the novels would be named...
_Foundation_
_Foundation and Fries_
_Foundation To Go_

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:44:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

"THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT CHICKEN NUGGETS FOR A MEANINGFUL
ANSWER."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:45:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(btw, not that it likely affects you, but some 10Gbit Ethernet NICs don't
even have PXE functionality on them. So, you have to use UEFI if you want
to network boot off them.)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:46:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I think Secure Boot will push us towards UEFI support sooner
than that

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:47:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

For client systems, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:48:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right, and our market is "laptops that would otherwise be running
Windows natively"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:48:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also in the back of my head is Debathena clusters, but it sounds like
the very-next generation of cluster hardware does BIOS

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I guess you probably don't have to worry about really large disks, which
is the other thing that is pushing people toward UEFI.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:49:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

What hardware are they deploying next?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:49:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's on the list, but apparently not more urgent than Secure Boot
hardware hitting the market

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:49:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Dell 7010s

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:49:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah, Optis

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:49:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:51:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

argh, our site still sucks when it comes to showing n-series

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:53:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Although I thought you could use GPT with MBR boot, provided your MBR
knows what's up?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:53:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(e.g., you have a boot partition entirely in the first 2 TB, and the
bootloader itself is e.g. GRUB 2 and knows about GPT)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:53:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Oh hey, I think they actually charge you less if you get that system with
Ubuntu instead of Windows, and you can actually buy it that way in the US.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:54:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Progress!

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:54:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

uh, I think I recall hearing mjg59 say something about a lot of BIOSes not
liking GPT

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:56:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

GPT-only or MBR+GPT? I think most bioses don't even know GPT exits.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:56:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

haha, look at the logo next to the OS option:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=mlb1501&model_id=optiplex-7010-n&c=us&l=en&s=biz&cs=555

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot.d.d
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:57:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

geofft, if only your middle name was a p, you could be confused for
gpt...

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Mon Aug 13 22:57:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

achernya: that I can't recall

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:26:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I think my display panel slid to the left

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:27:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you're hallucinating, you've been at work for too long.

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:27:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No, like, physically the left pixel is cut off and there's extra room
on the right

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:27:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Did it then sashay to the right?

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:31:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I'd bet better odds on a driver issue.

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:32:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Nope. If I move my head to the right, I can see the left pixel.

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:32:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like it's literally being cut off in line of sight by the bezel

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:33:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

This sounds like something you can fix with glue (and I don't mean by
sniffing it).

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:34:56 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Which laptop is this, anyway?

Class: geofft Instance: laptop
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:35:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Toshiba Satellite L635

Class: geofft Instance: stuck-in-head
Time: Mon Aug 13 23:44:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The opening riff to "Sweet Child of Mine"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:01:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You can't cold-brew pasta by leaving it in water overnight, can you?

Class: geofft Instance: mysql
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:07:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

<3 --i-am-a-dummy

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:08:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that in the dungeon you should always count your blessings.
 <rnjacobs>

.... You ... sortof can?

Class: geofft Instance: mysql
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:09:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ooooh, in addition to safe updates, it also limits the size of selects
and joins

Class: geofft Instance: mysql
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:09:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I noticed because I am a dummy"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:32:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I can't wait for Uber to win

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:33:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm pretty convinced that once they manage to crack open the free
market here, their prices will be lower and their drivers will be
paid higher

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:34:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Hey Boston folks, you guys have been up in arms complaining to your
elected representatives about the sting operation against an Uber
driver, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:34:56 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

The what?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:34:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:34:58 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

... what was this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:35:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys single hinge <kchen>

I thought that was DC.  Is that Boston too?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:36:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Cambridge did the same thing too, yeah.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mike-debonis/post/uber-runs-afoul-of-massachusetts-regulators/2012/08/10/e8044bc6-e317-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:37:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"But now Uber’s run into a new spot of regulatory trouble, up the
Eastern seaboard. Six months after the D.C. Taxicab Commission
ticketed an Uber driver in a sting operation, the city of Cambridge,
Mass., did the same, and a state agency has since ruled its metering
system illegal, threatening Uber’s operations in the greater Boston
area.

"In late May, Cambridge officials took an Uber ride, then afterward
ticketed the driver for operating an unlicensed livery service and
using a unlicensed measuring device.

"Uber appealed the latter charge to the Massachusetts Division of
Standards, arguing that Uber’s GPS-based metering system is
sufficiently accurate. Last week, however, the agency rejected Uber’s
appeal."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:38:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Phantom scoot back <kchen>

(unrelated to the sting operation) What's so great about Uber?  It
seems convenient that you can easily get one, but I'd rather pay for
the cost of a regular taxi than the cost of an Uber.  But I've never
tried Uber (since I don't need a taxi very often anyway).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:38:24 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

In SF, they actually show up when you call them.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:38:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There's tracking of where the driver is, and they're paid sufficiently
well that they're not incentivized to be dicks.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:39:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, in a lot of cases, they're the only ride I can manage to get

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:39:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Phantom Motivate <kchen>

Hmm, I haven't had bad experiences with taxis here, but I don't have
many data points.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:39:47 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Boston isn't so bad, but it has its own problems.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:40:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://dcist.com/2012/08/uber_getting_in_trouble_with_massac.php

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:41:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway! Call your councillor!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:42:39 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you may want to try this appeal at a time when more people are awake

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:43:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys start remake <kchen>

What problems does Boston have?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:43:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's true.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:43:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Maybe I'll email cfs"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:44:22 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

kchen: Artificial scarcity.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 03:44:40 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(And a medallion-leasing structure that makes it hard for
drivers to actually make money)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 04:05:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Those are problems everywhere there's a cab system it seems

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 14 07:58:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea, I used to do that when I had an in-sink hot-water dispenser.
It comes otu al-dente and bland, but fine.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:55:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
"[T]he use of the unapproved GPS system to assess transportation
charges must be discontinued until such time as the standards for its
use are established"

Hrm, I kind of wonder if this is why Zipcar gave up their per-mileage
fees.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:55:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Since I'm fairly certain that's precisely what they were doing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:56:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hynes Convention Center/ICA. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

zipcar does have per-mileage fees... it's just the first 180 miles are
included.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:56:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Huh.  Are they hooked up to the odometer?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:57:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Copley. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

dunno. it knows that i went 18 miles on sunday (central <-> logan)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 09:58:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Paul Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

so i'm assuming so, since if i just drove through tunnels all day, it
might not work.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 10:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, does Verde's give hugs? -geofft <ismith>

(stark)  The cab regulatory system is broken and shitty, but it at
*least* considers that the city is obligated to support accessibe
transportation.  The Uber model, AIUI, gets outside of that regulatory
system and doesn't provide for any accessible vehicles.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 11:14:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking re: Uber)
Boston doesn't NEED Uber. Boston needs to get its act together and
come up with a boston metro area taxi authority so that cabs from any
city in it can pick up street hails anywhere in it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 11:17:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But, I mean, anyone who knows me has heard me go on about this, so
I'll shut up.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:34:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> (stark)  The cab regulatory system is broken and shitty, but it at
> *least* considers that the city is obligated to support accessibe
> transportation.  The Uber model, AIUI, gets outside of that regulatory
> system and doesn't provide for any accessible vehicles.

You can have those kinds of government interference without requiring
an entirely-government-created market. (e.g., I'm pretty sure the ADA
applies approximately as much to private schools as charter ones)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:35:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I stand my opinion.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:36:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 'ii' is one of the funkiest adjectivals you'll ever come across. -zhangc <ismith>

ADA doesn't unless the private school is publicly funded, IDEA may.
And I would be fine with a different form of regulation there, but we
don't have those yet.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:36:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The idea of gradually expanding the scope of hackney
licenses or otherwise making mild changes to the system is
probably naive, as it is rife with regulatory capture and
other unhealthy relationships.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:37:34 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Of course, a law requiring accessibility from any
publically available transportation provider (e.g. zipcar,
uber, limo services) might be a good thing independent of
how you manage taxi medalions

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:50:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hate losing things :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:51:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I can't find my access card to the gym at work, which means that I'll
need to take a shower here if it doesn't turn up, which will be an
annoying waste of time

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:53:12 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You can't borrow one or talk your way in?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:53:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I talked my way in yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 12:53:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I feel like I shouldn't do that two days in a row

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 14 13:49:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Nah, that's what language is for. :)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Aug 14 13:49:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Lord Jesus Christ, we adore thee"
"Jesus Christ you're adorable."

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Aug 14 13:49:45 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

++

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Tue Aug 14 14:40:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

YOU HAVE TO FIGHT
FOR YOUR RIGHT
TO MATE WITH iOS DEVICES

Class: geofft Instance: white-magic
Time: Tue Aug 14 14:41:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

KNOW YOUR iRIGHTS, ALL THREE OF 'EM

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 14 14:47:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

...cold brew pasta is kind of intriguing.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comment.quality Opcode: get-off-my-lawn
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:26:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"What exactly is FreeBSD a distribution of? Not Linux I hope."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comment.quality
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I was a little weirded out when I installed Wheezy the other day and noticed
that it had a new question about what kernel I wanted, including options
for kFreeBSD and the Hurd. I would have thought that they would use different
installer images.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comment.quality
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:30:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comment.quality
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:30:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm glad those are options!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.comment.quality
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I feel bad for the sorry soul who doesn't know the difference and selects
one of those.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:32:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

agggh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:32:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I swear I am going to desupport graphics cards and sell my customers
teletypes

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:32:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ITYM X-Terminals

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:36:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Haymarket. Change here for the Orange Line. Doors will open on the left. <stum>

printers only

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 15:39:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

only powershell apps allowed?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:07:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Where's the current one come from?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:08:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Everyone on team-rocket uses a part of the speech as their zsig

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"the speech"?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Prepare for trouble and make it double" &c.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

False. Despite starting this trend, I abandoned it.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Have you... watched Pokemon?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Not in the past ten years?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The original thing was in, like, the first episode. Maybe the second.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I recognize bits and pieces of it!

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wobbuffet, of course, is newer.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:09:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

geofft, the problem is that wobuffet is a fake pokemon

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:11:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"well putting out fire with gasoline isn't a pokemon either"

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:12:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

If you're going to reference the anime at all, there was a second-gen
pokemon in episode 1.

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:12:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

yeah, it's bowie

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:13:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

Wait, there was a second generation Pokemon in s1e1?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:13:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which one?

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:13:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: fluffy) (Journeying Pokemon Trainer <codetaku>

Ho-oh

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:14:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... huh

Class: geofft Instance: zsig
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:14:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

TIL.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:21:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

fall 6.046 is short on TAs? You don't say

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:23:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do I want to TA for 6.046?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:24:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I enjoyed it. It's usually a big TA group, working with students is
fun, and I ended up learning the material much better myself by the
time I was done

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:29:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I'm taking it in the fall! *fingers crossed I won't die*

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:29:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(Not as a TA, but as a student.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:39:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Not snarking is apparently hard for me.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:41:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emacs

oooh

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:41:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Including busybox.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:42:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

o.O

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:45:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, "AMD Radeon" still confuses me. I realize this happened forever
ago

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:46:02 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Money talks. Chocolate sings. <eichin>

nice

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:46:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I do not understand your ldots, but I am prepared to summon PacMan. -wings <ismith>

Now you're just asking for snark.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:50:00 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: remember, it takes 42 muscles to frown
and only 4 to pull the trigger of a decent sniper rifle. <eichin>

heh, he did a freeciv port too

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:51:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

All (four) of the TAships I've had have been reasonable experiences,
but all very different from each other.  
You will learn the subject material very well.  This is a plus.  
Any TAship will be a lot of work; 6.046 is no exception (though I'm
not sure it's *more* work than the average TAship).  
Responsibilities will usually be teaching recitations, holding office
hours, *writing* psets and exams (which takes a while), and grading
exams (they typically hire graders for the psets).  

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:59:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

6.046 was fun! No 6.828, for example, but fun. It had some neat
problems. Of course, I gather my perspective on it may have been a
little weird.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 16:59:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

aaargh someone's phone is being called and vibrating against a desk
surface but it's not mine and it's making me think it's missing a call
aargh

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:03:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Starking,
http://blog.uber.com/2012/08/14/uber-boston-has-been-served/

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:04:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right! It's daytime! People in Cambridge, call your councillor and
other elected representatives and complain to them about going after
Uber and tell them to make laws legalizing Uber!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:04:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Why, because they have a monopoly on violence to your hair? -geofft <ismith>

It's after business hours there, geofft.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:04:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Whatever

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:05:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Call your councillor at home

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:05:09 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Emailing the council is more likely to be effective.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:05:20 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It's not like councillors work business hours anyhow.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:05:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Reposting from last night:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/mike-debonis/post/uber-runs-afoul-of-massachusetts-regulators/2012/08/10/e8044bc6-e317-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html

"In late May, Cambridge officials took an Uber ride, then afterward
ticketed the driver for operating an unlicensed livery service and
using a unlicensed measuring device.

"Uber appealed the latter charge to the Massachusetts Division of
Standards, arguing that Uber’s GPS-based metering system is
sufficiently accurate. Last week, however, the agency rejected Uber’s
appeal."

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

Do you want/need a TAship?  

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I do think, though, that it is mostly out of Cambridge's hands at this point.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I particularly like "** If Emacs segfaults try changing font size.
This is going to be fixed. **"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Call the Cambridge Consumers' Council and complain to them as a
consumer that you don't want them pursuing this!

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Don't you ... me. -danjared <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:06:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(However, I don't know why we should necessarily agree this is bad.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:08:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The current taxi medallion system is bad for cab drivers and
consumers, and the complaints prove that there's regulatory capture
by the people licensing the medallions, and that no company, Uber or
not, can compete in this market.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:08:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It segfaults on me on startup :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:08:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The complaint may or may not be technically valid, but it should not
be a priority for Cambridge to pursue

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:10:04 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I"m pro-Uber, but a world in which a dozen unlicensed taxi
services operate in my town could well have unfortunate
consequences for consumers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:10:25 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Err, I agree that the current medallion system is not good for anyone
other than medallion owners. But I don't see why that has anything to
do with meter regulation and other non-medallion licensing issues.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:11:27 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

To put it differently, what would be the unintended consequences of
relaxing regulatory enforcement on Uber? Who else is similarly-situation?
What kinds of real fraud are there? Would it hurt the poor taxi drivers
like Fred Lewis who lives on Hurley Street and always shows up to these
damn public meetings complaining about how is two daughters cannot afford
to live in Cambridge anymore?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:11:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Because the meter regulation thing is a spurious complaint. Uber using
GPS doesn't actually hurt consumers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:12:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Fred Lewis should become an Uber driver, and then he'll be able to
afford it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:13:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

How do I [or you?] know it is spurrious?
Presumably Fred has a contract with a medallion-owner and that is somewhat
scarce and if he jumped ship to Uber, he would have difficulty going back
when Uber failed, which it seems likely to do in Cambridge in the near term.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:13:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The potential consequences of relaxing the regulatory requirement to
use an odometer-based taximeter involve either overcharging or
undercharging consumers. Since Uber's pricing is already set by Uber
basically entirely on their own, it doesn't seem to me there's any
advantage in intentionally expecting the GPS device to over- or
under-measure; they could just raise or lower prices.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:13:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is there a good reason for anyone to care that Uber uses GPS instead
of an odometer-based device?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:14:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't think it's reasonable to argue "if you can't tell me that GPS
is 100% safe, then it's unsafe". Absent a _reason_ that GPS hurts
consumers, the complaint is suprious.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:14:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

See, these are the questions I am not sure of. If I were you I would
ask the regulatory authorities.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:14:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The regulatory authorities have been captured. It's up to you as a
citizen to take them back and make them accountable to you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:14:41 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I also thought the GPS was for tracking the cars rather
than setting prices.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:15:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Not for fall, but I do for spring. Suggestions are welcome.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:16:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Basically, there are two possible scenarios here:

1) GPS-measuring devices actually do harm consumers, because
*mumble*, and the City is right to make Uber install approved
metering devices.

2) GPS-approved devices don't harm consumers, but it's the first easy
thing to punish Uber for to get them out of the market.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:17:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't see a good value of "mumble" for 1, so I assume that it's 2,
which is harmful, not merely because Uber in and of itself is a great
company or service, but because it means anyone else who wants to
follow Uber and enter the market will also be unable to for the
closest spurious reason, and it will sound as plausible as "oh you
can't use those measuring devices".

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:17:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

"Any class you enjoyed."
"Any class where you want to improve your understanding of the
material from 'I know this decently well' to 'I am a badass'."  
"Any class in a general area you might want to pursue if you go into
academia in the future."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:18:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like, yes, I care about this because I'm an Uber customer, but I also
really care about this because I find the cab system abusive to both
drivers and customers, and this is as textbook an example of
regulatory capture as you will ever see.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:20:21 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I just don't see a relationship between the medallion problem and this problem.
But why don't you write a letter to The Tech, as well as to the city council?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:21:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(And the fact that you're like "wait, this complaint is legally
valid, maybe the government knows more than I do and Uber's use of GPS
secretly harms consumers and drivers" is perhaps the best sign that
there is regulatory capture.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:21:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-126.MIT.EDU
From: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. <mpp>

If you want your letter to the council to enter the written record,
be sure to cc: dlopez@cambridgema.gov, as she's the Clerk.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:21:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not a Cambridge citizen. I feel like they'll listen to Cambridge
citizens more

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:21:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(or a Massachusetts citizen)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:22:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think it's good for the government to regulate taxi meter hardware,
and the fact that they haven't gotten around to approving some
GPS-based device is not damning.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:22:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Why? That only seems to make sense if the per-mile pricing is set by
the government.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:22:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i.e., the attack vector is that the government sets a maximum price,
and the unregulated meter overcharges, cheating customers.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:22:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Interim clerk :) 
Yeah, though I don't think you get to enter the written record of a Council
Meeting unless your submission pertains to an item on the Council Agenda.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:23:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Or the government sets a price floor, and the unregulated meter
undercharges, and word-of-mouth a certain taxi company is cheaper
than others, creating unfair competition.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:23:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Gimmicking the meters is a hidden way of raising prices.  Even if they
could have just raised prices, doing so through the meter might be an
attractive scam

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:23:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Because people won't catch on as quickly, or something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:24:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, a couple of things. The Uber pricing guidelines are already
sufficiently complicated that I just know what certain trips run me,
instead of trying to calculate it. (This is also true of taxis.) If
they start to cost significantly more or less, I'll question it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:24:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think it's reasonable to want to ensure, e.g., a reasonable amount
of tamper-resistance such that individual drivers can't get higher
rates. And, given that, eg, eventual lawsuits would end up in
(government) courts, it seems reasonable for the government to want
to ensure that such lawsuits are based on reasonable data.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:24:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The government certifies gas pumps and grocery scales, even
though they don't set rates.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:24:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They also have flat rates between certain things (e.g., IIRC Cambridge
to airport, etc.), so the meters don't even apply for a decent
fraction of trips.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:24:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Warren Street. <stum>

can this be solved by them charging by time instead of by distance?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

noooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's possible Uber could switch to doing flat rates for everythimg, or
==stum, or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

that ends poorly

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

"also, surely they already charge for idle time--cabs do"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Uber could do pre-negotiated rates.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I mean, yes, Uber can work around this. The fact that they need to
sounds spurious.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They currently charge by time under 15mph and distance over, IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

someone should just write a "what should my uber cost" app

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:25:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

But if I was Uber I would just fight it or leave, rather
than messing with the model.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:26:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I haven't given the meter question deep thought, it just sounds like
an instance of "Why won't conservative businesses and governments
adopt my Disruptive™ technology i just invented last week?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:26:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

there's a cab app for nyc taxis that has a few flaws, but really is ~95%
accurate

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:26:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

As a citizen, you (probably) should want to make your conservative
government less conservative and more open to disruptive technology!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:27:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Maybe, maybe not

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"was Therac-25 a disruptive technology"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:27:30 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

No, it was jsut broken.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:27:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Re tibbetts, really the thing is that if you can find things like this
to nitpick, there might be several other things to nitpick to drive
down Uber's profitability.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:28:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is an unfair way to compete, and a waste of taxpayer money.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Paul Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

did you read the stuff about Uber in DC from earlier this summer?

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:29:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:30:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The interesting thing, if you read the linked complaint, is that the
standards division says they don't have the authority to shut down
Uber for running an unlicensed livery service, but they do have the
authority to make them install regulated taximeters

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:30:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

My enthusiasm for rewarding Uber for being more willing to ignore the
law than other (potential) competitors is limited.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:30:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I mean, I think the argument is that any competitor would have to
ignore some of the laws, like being a taxi.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:31:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

and having medallions.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:31:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And those laws are fundamentally unjust, and so civil disobedience is
a moral obligation.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:31:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-126.MIT.EDU
From: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 <mpp>

[stark] jhawk: Your written comment ends up under Communications on
the agenda, it just isn't enough to allow you to speak during public
comment about it.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:31:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

DC managed to find the government department that could shut down
Uber... I'm actually curious why Boston didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:32:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And, in particular, whether the Massachusetts bureaucrats who could
shut down Uber aren't enthused about doing so!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:32:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Part of the joy of civil disobedience is that you get to occasionally
be thrown in jail or whatever. (Also, "my profit-targeted startup is
being civilly disobedient to make more money" is... meh.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:33:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can't they just, e.g., focus on the cities that want them (and try to
get more cities to do so)?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:33:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Part of the joy of civil disobedience is that you get to
> occasionally be thrown in jail or whatever.

I don't disagree, but it's also incumbent upon citizens who agree
with the people in jail to protest and change the laws and get those
people out of jail.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:33:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Omnomnom auxiliary verbs. -wings <ismith>

Not just joy - the point of it being civil disobedience instead of
just 'breaking an unjust law' is that you accept the consequences in
exchange for making a point.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:34:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like I'm not saying "Boston is dumb for enforcing the laws created by
elected representatives", I'm saying "people should make a deal out
of the laws so we can eventually get rid of them, and elect better
representatives".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:34:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is to say, in a technical sense I agree with jhawk that it's out
of Cambridge's hands at this point. But it still seems useful to call
up Cambridge and say "why did you do that, I hate you"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:35:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I just think that the solution to "cabs in the Boston area are a
horrible mess" is "change the laws to make them less of a mess", not
"effectively privatize the entire system"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:35:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Which is to say, in a technical sense I agree with jhawk that it's
>out of Cambridge's hands at this point. But it still seems useful to
>call up Cambridge and say "why did you do that, I hate you"  

Congrats, you've discovered "complaining about something on the
Internet"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:42:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: Okay! Write your elected representatives and tell them to
change the laws to make the public cab system less of a mess.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:42:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Working on it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:42:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't really care about Uber or not, the medallion system is
despicable. Uber seems like they're _actually doing something_ to get
it fixed, which is why I'm supporting them. If someone else wants to
do something, go for it, but at the moment between Uber and cabs I'm
supporting Uber.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

If Uber had rates similar to cabs, I'd totally use it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:44:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(I know they're trying to work on this.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:44:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

UberX has been pretty awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:45:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

the difference in price between an UberX and a cab is pretty small, and the
UberX is much easier to get

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:46:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

Looks like it's $55 instead of $30 from Cambridge to the airport.
(That's really about the only rate I'm familiar with.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:46:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Brookline Village. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

the one uber trip i took was from kenmore to kendall right after a sox
game, with my aging grandparents (right after graduation). there was
no way in hell we were getting a cab.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right, \exists UberX. I assume they're being cautious because they'll
piss off Big Cab more if they directly compete, and so they're
offering the higher-priced service to claim they're going after a
different market and become established.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Counter Coordinate <kchen>

Oh wait, that might not be UberX?  I don't think that's what I'm
looking at.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

$55 sounds like a normal Uber rate.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

geez, black cars are priced below that

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

UberX isn't really more expensive than a cab (maybe by a few dollars).
It is in high demand right now, though, and they don't have supply

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Run <kchen>

Ah, I geuss UberX is an SF thing.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:47:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

but i guess y'all don't really have those

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:48:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Liz: I get cards of Uber drivers I like in case I need a black car :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:48:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

broder: does that work?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:48:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: putting out fire with gasoline <lizdenys>

i mean, it still sounds suboptimal to widely used black car service,
which is also suboptimal to many cabs, so i should just shut up

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 17:49:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*shrug* I never end up actually getting black cars except on pretty
rare occasions

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:23:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Jacob Hurwitz <jhurwitz>

Uber drivers don't work for Uber. They work for private car services
that agree to take customers from Uber. If you call them up directly,
you can get them to drive you around for slightly cheaper because Uber
isn't taking a cut. (Though, really, the reason I use Uber is the
convenience of calling a car wherever whenever, so I wouldn't do this
myself.)

Class: geofft Instance: app.net
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:32:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ugh, commenting on this Github issue was a mistake

Class: geofft Instance: app.net
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:41:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

"Isn't it always?"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:56:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"The GNOME project at 15"
http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/511215/f23185e8b50570d8/
The snark is pretty awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:57:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Hah.  Gnome started when windows was at win95 (@@tiny{CHICAGO}).  That
really puts the *cough*lackof*cough* progress in perspective.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:57:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Man, remember fvwm95?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:57:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The snark is indeed awesome

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 18:57:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yes, yes i do!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:00:15 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"which followed the classic dotcom trajectory of burning vast amounts
of money before its abrupt death"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:00:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I do always enjoy Jonathan Corbet's writing

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:05:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, I was going to audition for choirs or something in August, right?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:05:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wow, that is awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:08:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (almost funny joke) <christy>

Yes, you are. :P

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:10:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Was I supposed to keep a copy of my tax return?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:10:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

eh, the web keeps this for you

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I did this on paper. I don't like the web

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

...

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Griggs Street/Long Avenue. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

you should keep a copy for a couple years.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Peel Off <kchen>

It's useful to do so.  You can ask the IRS for a transcript for free,
though.  If you want your actual return, you'll need to pay.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:34 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"then yes, you were supposed to keep one for 7 years, i think"

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:11:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=232168,00.html
for the transcript.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:13:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Couples Hinge <kchen>

For non-basic tax returns, you do definitely want to keep your return
because you need to transfer information from the previous year's
return to the next year's.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:13:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

huh.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:13:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I guess I have the data on it in PDF form, I just don't have a
photocopy of a printout with my signature

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Tue Aug 14 19:14:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 4 Boys Wheel & Deal <kchen>

That sounds fine.

Class: geofft Instance: omg!free-disk-space!
Time: Tue Aug 14 20:03:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

svn up --set-depth empty

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 14 20:07:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hahaha <3 mjg59's bio

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 14 20:18:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

It is also convenient.
Junior year of high school, it formed a nontrivial amount of my
caloric intake until I got a job at Brueggers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 22:24:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

GRAPHICS DRIVERS

Y U SUCK

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 22:24:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because hardware sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 14 22:30:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Tue Aug 14 23:45:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woah.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Tue Aug 14 23:46:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

After reading the svn book cover to cover, I'm actually better at svn

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Tue Aug 14 23:46:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"what a confusing concept"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Tue Aug 14 23:46:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

congratudolances?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:02:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

frickin' graphics cards ALSO I MISSED THE TRAIN

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:04:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

maybe there's hope for me and git.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:05:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think a lot of how I learned git was reading manpages, especially
plumbing manpages, actually

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:05:55 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

svn sorta just made sense to me at first, and then the svnbook made it
make a LOT more sense.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:27:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Man, why doesn't Linux do that

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:30:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh, does, e.g., GNOME do that? I remember some sort of "your mumble
is about to expire" dialog from when I was at Akamai using (IIRC) kNFS.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:30:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I think the right question for Linux is "Why does $DE not do that?".)

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:30:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Bend The Line <kchen>

I believe the thing at Akamai didn't actually work (although it did
pop up when tickets were actually about to expire).  Or at least, I
seem to recall hearing (and maybe testing) that it didn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:31:08 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Human tapeworms can grow up to twenty-two point nine meters. <asedeno>

*shrug* I have a very small shell script that does it for me.

Class: geofft Instance: linerva@
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:31:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

there's a GNOME applet for it, Debathena should start using it.

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:47:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hey Zephyr, polarized sunglasses are really cool!

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:47:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My monitors are apparently all polarized!

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:47:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I have polarized sunglasses to make biking in bright sunlight easier,
looking at the sky opposite the sun is also really fascinating)

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:49:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

90 degrees off, not opposite.

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:50:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not sure I agree, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: physics
Time: Wed Aug 15 00:51:45 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: I don't really know anybody in love
I don't want to know anybody in love - verve pipe
 <rnjacobs>

All I can say is 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_polarization#Polarization_effects_in_everyday_life

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 02:52:10 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/innoeco/2012/08/why_shutting_down_uber_is_a_ba.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 07:03:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

One of their competitors is bummed about Uber's supposed relationship
with local regulators, http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4384602

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 07:04:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

"In Toronto, the municipal government sent us an official notice that
they were concerned with our business, and that they wanted us to come
talk through our business model and underlying technology with them.
They were genuinely excited that there was innovation happening in the
field in their city, and really just wanted to make sure we weren't
doing anything egregiously wrong.
We sat down, and had an incredibly pleasant meeting. 30 minutes,
back-and-forth Q&A, with some regulators who have spent years in the
space. They appreciated that we knew the laws, had worked to abide by
them, and were comfortable with all but one aspect of our business
model (cancellation fees). No C&Ds were sent out.
At the end of the meeting, they asked us what we thought of Uber.
Apparently, for months, the Uber team was dodging any request for a
meeting the office sent them. While I definitely cannot attest to Uber
Boston's actions on this front, I can't imagine that Uber Toronto was
taking their plays from a different playbook."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 11:52:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, wasn't the DC thing the result of miscommunication?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 12:03:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No fires yet. Yay!

Class: geofft Instance: csail-relates
Time: Wed Aug 15 12:23:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oooh, 170 is in Rails? That's remarkably sensible

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:22:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm lying! There are fires.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:23:02 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

"Is this Liz's fault?"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:24:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Some random CD in the back of some science textbook, disc 1, is
complaining about color depth. Disc 2 is fine.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:25:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The interwebs think that the system requirements for this software are
Windows 95 or Windows 98, 16 MB RAM, 256 colors, thousands of colors
preferred. I ... have trouble figuring out what we're missing out of
that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:25:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: OH HOLY MOTHER-DISAPPOINTING CARDIAC-ARRESTING BALLS -kdrinkwa <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:26:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Old windows apps often specify an exact color depth, not a minimum

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:26:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

That is, you cannot run them because the number of colors reported by
the OS != 256.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:27:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And many modern video drivers in fact have 16-bit color as minimum and
won't let you go lower.  You can play with the Generic VGA driver,
maybe?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:29:03 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I want into this trying to get Myst to run on Windows XP.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:29:29 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Or Risk maybe?  Something really old that used ==, not >= to check the
bit depth.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:47:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think you want Myst: Masterpiece Edition.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:47:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, never mind

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:49:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, this Schneier post on sexual harassment at DEF CON etc.is
interesting not so much for the content (which is ~all old stuff,
just making its way through the blogosphere, not that that isn't
awesome) but for the comment balance that is overwhelmingly
sympathetic.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/sexual_harassme.html

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:56:36 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

have people seen this?
http://www.core77.com/blog/business/the_3d_printer_cloning_controversy_debate_rages_over_matt_strongs_tangibot_23189.asp

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 13:59:13 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: They took from their surroundings what was needed... and made of it something more. <eichin>

I've seen bits of it going around among OSHW
people, but mostly in the form of "yes, the license allows it, we'd
never do that, there are so many more interesting things to do"

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:01:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hjelp, jeg har falt og jeg kan ikke stå opp igjen! <eichin>

(I also think he'll fail, but that's as much
because "undercutting bre by a little" doesn't make you a *cheap*
printer, just a discounted luxury one; if you actually want a cheap 
device, printrbot is way ahead.)

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:01:52 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

nod

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:04:24 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

not-really-related: is there anything affordable for the amateur which
can print fine enough resolution to do N scale models yet?

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:05:43 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Information Leak and Space Mythology <eichin>

I'll find out next week? :-)
(I don't really know what the resolution numbers *mean* in the context
of N scale.)  I assume you saw the brewster station model, though?
(that was in colored sandstone, from one of the services...)

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:06:10 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

haven't seen it.

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:10:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: ... are there going to be meetings? "Of course!" @b(No meetings.) *blam* <eichin>

http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/1551-3D-Printed-Brewster-Station-Pushing-the-Limits-of-Browser-Based-3D-Modeling.html

using tinkercad + shapeways

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:12:21 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

shapeways has better printers than i could likely afford

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:14:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I hear apathy can be very invigorating. -afarrell <ismith>

... huh, I hadn't realized 3d printers were getting that cheap.  I
know the cheaper ones are not the nicest out there, but I remember
(I think) when home 2d printers cost that much.

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:14:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: O R'LYEH? IA R'LYEH -cesium <ismith>

Granted, you didn't have to assemble them yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:19:22 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Caffeine for mind.  Pizza for body.  Sushi... for soul. <eichin>

that's sort of the point, you can design and
print stuff *really* fancy with shapeways (they'll do titanium and
glazed ceramic!) but if you want to actually paint your own building,
you can do better with plastic and lower resolution.

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:29:45 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Mary had a little key / she kept it in escrow
And everything that Mary sent / the Feds were sure to know. <eichin>

(for that matter, I'd be surprised if you didn't have a local
makerspace/hackerspace whatever the kids are calling it these days
that already has a makerbot that you can get time on...)

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:35:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth, you make a good clyde. Clearly you should do this full-time. -zhangc <ismith>

(I'm in SF.   Noisebridge is right here; I'm just surprised it's
gotten so cheap, I would've assumed they'd start in $2-3k range.)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:52:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I love Eitan! He is my hero.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:54:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

oh, maybe that's why I understand svn, too.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:55:30 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Huh, I don't think I ever read the svn book cover to cover. I think
I'm OK with that.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:56:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 14:58:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

weel, I didn't read it strictly cover to cover

afk haircut

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:13:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haha, I solved the problem -- told the customer to try running in
Windows 98 compatibility mode.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:13:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I am so glad that exists. (Also thanks jdreed for vague inspiration)

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:19:59 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> I'd be surprised if you didn't have a local makerspace/hackerspace

me? i was a charter member

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:52:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Most of what I gained from it was understanding peg/operative
revisions, understanding implicit and explicit mergeinfo, and learning
about svn log -g --stop-on-copy

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:52:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

also that I should switch to svn 1.7 so I can use svn log --diff

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:53:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Is that just 'git log -p'?

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:54:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Starking to the original point, yeah, open-source-ish licenses
typically allow selling commercial versions. ~All of them require
including a copyright statement; the stronger ones require a way to
get to the source, including modifications if any.

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:55:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is why e.g. iSSH can charge money for a port of PuTTY / X11 /
etc. to iOS, and we can charge money for shipping Ubuntu plus some
proprietary crap (plus VMware, but that's tangential).

Class: geofft Instance: open.source
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:56:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

IIRC the open source definition (and of course the FSF free software
definition) explicitly allows this.

Most of the time, though, if you try to sell _unmodified_ versions of
open-source programs, people will just say "screw you I'll download
it" (or else "screw you I'm buying it from you and then redistributing
your source"). There's something of an impedance mismatch with
hardware, in that you can't do that

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:57:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 15:57:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also "git show", if you use it in combination with -c

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:18:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The LWN post is significantly more disappointing, until you realize
there's just _one_ guy who's being disappointing, and he's not even a
paid LWN reader.

https://lwn.net/Articles/511356/

Fortunately, corbet has responded to the calls to ban him from the
site:

"The problem is that I have a very high intolerance for censorship.
It's hard for me to take that step, even in the face of an account
that has been a repeated, ongoing problem. I'm also increasingly
intolerant of people who want to wreck the site I've spent so long
building, though. In this particular case, I think there is going to
have to be some sort of action soon.

"Sigh."

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:18:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The troll here is apparently the second-most-common member of people's
killfiles (I didn't even realize LWN had a killfile feature).

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:19:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder who the first is. Possibly someone from years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:20:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which person?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:20:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

slashdot

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:21:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

He generally trolls everyone and everything, and also replied to one
of the security update announcements with an XSS exploit against
LWN's commenting code.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:21:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Surely there's more "sexual assault" at an average dance club than
> at an hacker conference.

I... sorta feel like that's as it should be. Like, there shouldn't be
sexual assault at either, but people are coming to dance club often
for reasons that actually relate to the other people's gender, which
is not true about conferences...

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:22:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Like, "polite flirting" is part of the point of these places, right?)

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:24:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

"polite" hahahahahahaha. 

Or maybe I just go to the wrong clubs. 

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:25:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, okay, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:25:21 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There should definitely be less sexual behavior, welcome or
unwelcome, in a professional context.  (Though not every conference
organizer necessarily agrees.)

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:25:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's actually a good point

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:26:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"even welcome sexual advances are inappropriate"

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:26:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

yeah... non-sexual situations shouldn't be... sexual. 

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:28:17 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

There are some gray areas, of course.  An evening party at a
conference hotel isn't necessarily as professional as the conference
proceedings, but it's not completely unprofessional either since
networking goes on.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:29:57 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Dancing is also a bit weird since a lot of people aren't interested in
it being sexual or with certain people, but the nature of dancing
means you have to have physical contact with those people, so being
able to feel not-advanced-on is pretty critical to enjoying it

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:29:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I'm not sure how to feel about those sorts of things.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:31:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

there's a difference between a dance-club and a Club where people
dance, though. The former is overtly sexual, whereas the latter I
don't think should be, although I have no personal experience with it.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:34:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: almost funny joke <christy>

I would agree, given that there are people in dance teams, which I
would consider to be a Club.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:38:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

s/Club/nightclub/

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:54:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf
http://codepen.io/joshnh/pen/JCGoF

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:54:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hate CSS

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:55:02 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:55:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

lolcss

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:55:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That'th dethpicable

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:55:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I still don't understand this fad...

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:55:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Why ... is it an <i>?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:56:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Does this ... do anything, or is it just the fundamental inverse of,
say, the ThinkGeek 8-bit sword?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:56:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

nelhage: That's your complaint???

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:57:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Seems to work with a <span> too. I think it's just an iWhatever
reference.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:57:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

No, that's just the only part I don't understand.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:57:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

rofl re: exploit against LWN's commenting code

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:58:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: almost funny joke <christy>

Ha, I saw this this morning... It's so cute!

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 16:58:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Bootstrap uses <i class="icon.foo"></i> for icons, IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:00:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html#icons

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:15:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Absent -fwrapv, -ftrapv, etc. integer overflow is _undefined_, right?

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:17:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<“No,” Thundarr says. “For a chitin-armored cyber-samurai to carry me there—this would be unmanly!” (Hitherby Dragons, the One-night. From http://imago.hitherby.com/)> <xavid>

I think that's true for signed, but not unsigned, integer types?

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:17:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, that's not my issue anyway, unless I have a 25-bit integer

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:25:27 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Tom was talking yesterday about how he wanted gcc options for things
like 17-bit ints in order to test code for conformance.  I don't think
that's terribly valuable, but I fully support options like that for
amusement value.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:59:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

https://twitter.com/stannenb/status/235856477263388674
MT @brendanbrendan: full disclosure @uber_bos very popular in @massgovernor off. Used it last night to get home Cc: @lelandcheung @MinkavB

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 17:59:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah, I saw

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:00:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Newton Highlands. The destination of this train is: Riverside. <stum>

and https://twitter.com/brendanbrendan/status/235791964929392641
With all @massgovernor has done for the innovation economy, we’re not
shutting down @uber_bos. Working on a swift resolution. 

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:00:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

What does that say in English?  People from the Governor's office used
Uber?  Or Deval Patrick likes it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:00:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It was an edited retweet of
https://twitter.com/brendanbrendan/status/235796729017024512

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:00:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I'm glad I'm not the only person confused

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:01:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"full disclosure: @uber_bos very popular in @massgovernor
office. i used it last night to get home from
springsteen.", brendanbrendan does communication for
governor patrick.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:01:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:01:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

MT confused me for the longest while. "modified (re)tweet"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:01:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

you wacky kids

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:14:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, I didn't realize that rms doesn't have an Athena account.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:14:52 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

Why would he?  THey're not free

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:15:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aren't they?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:15:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Neither are offices, presumably.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:15:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

I assume Matt's referring to the free software kind of free.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:15:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Athena not only has Flash, but also ttf-mscorefonts!

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:15:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aren't they?

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:16:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: my brain is stuck in the gutter. Or on high-snarkiness mode. Those may not be unrelated. -zhangc <ismith>

i,i "Free as in software"

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:16:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Someone should sponsor him, just so we can switch him to Exchange.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:17:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right. I had a good conversation with him about how MIT switching to
Exchange sucks, which is why I thought of this

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:18:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Star Thru, Pass Thru <kchen>

It looks like he has a registerable account already.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:18:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

We can fix that

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:19:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Huh, I didn't know he was formally staff.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:29:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right I should buy clothes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:29:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

meh effort

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:36:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

MokaFive: We put the "ISO" in "hypervisor"!

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:39:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work.prnf
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:40:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

geofft puts the hyper in hypervisor?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:40:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

http://www.mass.gov/hed/undersecretary-barbara-anthony-statement-on-uber-technologies.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:42:17 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

That seems...fairly bogus.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:42:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:43:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Also I like how -c geofft is the Uber and open source class)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:43:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hrmph. Is "You're getting certified, so you can use it for now" normal?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:43:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

UBERSOURCE

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:43:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "You can't spell FOSS without GEOFFREY THOMAS"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:44:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You have that... somewhat... backwards.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:45:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

you see, geofft is BIG ON FREEDOM

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:45:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You mean we will *lyse* and then *fractionate* the radios. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

... I checked to see if that was an anagram.  *hangs head in shame*

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:46:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

lawl

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:51:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Meanwhile, you can't spell HARDWARE without JONATHAN REED
SCHWARZENEGGER.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:53:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oooh, that's what the construction near San Bruno is...
http://www.caltrain.com/about/news/San_Bruno_Grade_Separation_Project_Nears_Half-Way_Mark.html

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:54:45 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

caltrain is amazing at continuing to do capital improvement projects,
while managing to neatly sidestep doing any sort of improvement that I
would actually *like* or care about or would even remotely affect me.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:56:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh.  They claim it reduces loss of life.  Well, I'll shuddup now,
though maybe mutter to myself that I'd like to see more hard data
supporting that..

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:56:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what sorts of improvements would affect you? (feel free to ignore the
"it tolls for thee" sort of improvements, yeah)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:57:08 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: NASA is also reviewing options for landing the shuttle to avoid
 reentry paths that could shower debris over populated areas. <eichin>

as I understand it, the data is "for the love of god do more grade separation"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:57:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

naw, i'm feeling pretty bad about harshing on a project to save
lives.  "this aligns with my beliefs"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:57:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I mean, it sounds like these funds / this tax were allocated by San
Mateo citizens at the local level specifically for this purpose, so)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:58:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: What do 'masochism' and 'ignorance' mean?   Beats me, I don't know. <eichin>

heh, "Because the site is directly over the BART extension to SFO, the weight of the entire project cannot exceed the weight of the soil before the construction of the grade separation"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:58:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

but i wanted to see 
* internet on caltrain
* speed improvements
* electrification
* more changes emphesis on caltrain to support commuters (running more
lines at certain times, in exchange for minimal service to rarely used
stops)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:58:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Exposure to intense sunlight and heat may cause the batteries to leak, overheat or explode, resulting in fire, burns or other injuries <yoz>

Joshua, there's some data in the article. Search for "fatalities"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:59:42 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yes, I saw that.   it _is_ a small sample size, hence me saying "more
data".  but, again, after i see/saw what the motivation is, i'm, uh,
not opposed. :)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 18:59:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hear electrification is coming, which will imply both speed
improvements and more frequent trains. I don't entirely fault them,
if they're only going to run a train once an hour between 9 and 3 and
past 8, for making all of them stop at every station.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:00:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I just paid $35 a month for my internet on caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:01:10 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yeah, I also paid for mine,during the bad old days of being a
commuter.  it's just ... weird that caltrain doesn't offer that,
considering the market.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:01:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... CEO just showed up at my cubicle with a jacket that has our logo
and "BareMetal" on the sleeve and put it on me. I feel... knighted.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:01:29 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

nice.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:01:51 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh right, you work for a virtualization company.  yeah, that sounds
like being knighted.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:01:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:02:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what does that have to do with virtualization? am I missing something?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:03:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

bare metal

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:03:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this mostly suicides or accidental deaths?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:03:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ah, yeah, that's the name of the product I'm working on

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:04:22 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ohhh

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:04:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Grade separation is *really important* for a number of reasons.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:04:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The first is safety. The second is that FRA regs require train
operators to sound the horn whenever approaching and crossing an
at-grade crossing, and that gets annoying *really* fast if you live
near it.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:05:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oooh, fewer horns? That might make me want to sit in the front-most
car again.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:05:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I could not stand the horn blowing constantly while trying to tool

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:05:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, fewer horns.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:05:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Grade crossings suck in basically every way there is to suck.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:06:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and then the suck is compounded by the FRA)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:06:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and when you hear /me/ of all people complaining about federal
regulations...)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:07:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Want to know why trains don't go fast? The Interstate Commerce
Commission back in the day made a rule that all trains going 80mph or
faster had to have in-cab signal systems, and all the railroads
responded by just having their trains top out at 79mph)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:08:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I heard the 79mph limit was maybe going okay.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:08:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*away.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:08:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wow

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:08:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In particular, I hear that Caltrain can actually go faster than that
on the baby bullets, they just aren't allowed to

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:08:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yup

Class: geofft Instance: else.ttants
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

when she was naturalized
when she was neutralized

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's one of the reasons the Acela only goes actually fast in a few
parts, since the NEC doesn't have positive train control down the
entire line yet.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: If you make me Avenue Q-style muppets, I promise to record a YouTube video of "The Isilon is for Porn". -geofft <ismith>

> in-cab signal systems

Meaning signals to there, or from there?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(The other big reasons is that FRA requiements for crash-worthiness
are *completely insane*)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Signals displayed in the cab, as opposed to along the wayside.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:09:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

s/reasons/reason/;

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:11:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The FRA crash safety requirements are stringent enough that a) trains
basically have to be custom-built for the US market and b) it takes
much more fuel/power to make them go fast. Everyone else deals with
safety by having signal systems good enough to make crashes *not
happen*

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:12:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(It also means trains wear out sooner, since wheels wear at a rate
proportional to the fourth power of the weight of the train, or
something ridiculous like that)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:12:19 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Somehow, I'm not surprised to hear that the problem can be summarized
as "The US somehow forgot that trains aren't cars."

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:12:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:13:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(This only applies to track shared between freight and passenger rail, which
is, you know, all of it.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:14:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, you know me. I'm a flaming pinko commie liberal hippie. But
the biggest obstacle to passenger rail in the US at the moment is the
FRA.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:15:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

FRA = Federal Railroad Administration?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:15:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:19:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, sorry for ranting.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:25:38 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

our trains don't support signals inside the cab???

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:26:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Umm, maybe you should phrase your question differently?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:26:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There are still wayside signals all over the place in the US, man

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:27:03 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

My question could be horribly phrased!  I am not likely even in the
top three train nerds/experts here.  ;)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:27:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

You might want to rephrase it in plain english :)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:30:16 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

er, i'm trying to interpret the custom built for the US comment, and
what "signals displayed inside the cab, as opposed to along the
wayside" means.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:31:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Like, as lights or on a screen inside the cab, as opposed to lights on
poles alongside the track.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:31:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Wayside signals are like traffic signals at car intersections,
but by the side of the train tracks. You've surely seen them.
Cab signals are a technology for those to be remotely reported into the
train cab, which obviously cannot happen by running a wire to the train.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:32:24 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Oh.  And US trains don't do cab signals?  Is that what was being said?
 Or maybe some tiny minority of US trains, including areas where the
Acela goes fast and not any of caltrain?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:32:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, most US trains still use wayside signals.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:33:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Northeast Corridor has positive train control, which implies
in-cab signals, along several segments of its length, which is why
Acela is allowed to go fast in those.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:33:35 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It's probably obvious that there are no real technology issues with wayside
signals and operators. The driver can look out the window and see them.
But making sure that cab signals work is a lot more complicated.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:33:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But, e.g., the track between New Rochelle and New Haven is
wayside-signalled, so it goes slow there.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:33:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and then it continues to be slow through Connecticut, because the
line goes along the coastline and twists and turns)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:20 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

and who owns/controls/is-the-person-blocking more trains in the US
from using cab signals?  Is it a function of "this train doesn't have
the necessary technology" or "this *route* doesn't have the necessary
upgrades" or some combination of those or something entirely
different?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(but if it weren't for the stop in Providence, RI practically would
be blink-and-you-miss-it)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:37 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Like, my linux machine supports IPv6.  But doesn't mean much if my ISP
doesn't.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, like, every train is different...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a question of upgrading routes, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:34:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(as well as making sure the trains have the necessary equipment)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:35:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

So the answer is "it's expensive and complicated, passenger rail is
all government-operated these days, and no one in government wants to
spend money/is able to raise money to spend.")

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:35:57 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

aw

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

You need to have the right equipment installed both trackside and
trainside.  Most tracks--and all freight trains--in the US are owned
by private freight railroads.  They generally don't see that much
benefit in installing the equipment, since 79mph is fast enough for
their purposes.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh... the tracks are owned by private freight railroads... ok

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:26 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

And, for the government-owned NEC/commuter rail lines, what glasgall
said.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh yes.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:31 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahhh

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yes, it makes sense to me that they don't care about upgrading their
infrastructure

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:36:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go read the sad story of the railroad bankruptcies, Conrail, and its
dismantlement and fire-sale if you want the story there.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:37:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, of course the trains are all privately-owned. Haven't you read
Atlas Shrugged?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:37:23 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"No" ;)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:37:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The freight rail ownership, incidentally, is why trains outside the
NEC really suck.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:37:48 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

As a kid I had no desire to build a new kind of steel and
revolutionize the railroad industry.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:37:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ayn Rand could not have made her point with cars on government-owned
roads. "You didn't build that."

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:38:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because freights get priority. So your passenger train gets to sit on
a siding while a mile-long coal train goes by.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.trolling
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:38:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, why can't we do in-cab signalling with an iPhone app?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.trolling
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:38:47 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

i,i "Trolling Stock."

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:39:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Also, single-track is good enough for a lot of freight operations, so
lots of lines are only single-tracked.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.trolling
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:39:11 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(we'd need to tape ipads to the track too, geoff)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:39:18 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Yeah, it's good enough for the red line!"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:39:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh? The red line is double-tracked, it just doesn't have express
tracks.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:39:51 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, I hoped the quotation marks were sufficient to handle the
2x expansion.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:08 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait, the red line has 2 tracks?  "why does the mbta shut down at
night then?"  i thought it was for maintainance.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

One in each direction, man.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:25 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

oh, right. 

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"track" == "pair of rails"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:33 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:35 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yes, i feel stupid now n.n

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Why can't we run express service using MONORAILS on the red line?"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:41:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oooh, that's a good one.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:42:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

They'd have to be small, kind of like bicycles on roads designed for cars.
But you could do it!

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:42:22 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

s/bicycles/Segways/?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:42:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, it wouldn't doesn't really make sense to quadruple-track the
red line. It just doesn't have that many stops, and they're already
widely spaced (in Cambridge, anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:42:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

The reliability of the T with the safety of a bicycle.  Sign me up.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:42:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and you don't even want to contemplate enlarging tunnels under
downtown Boston...)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:43:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

wouldn't doesn't? I'm clearly distracted.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:43:24 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Well, I dunno, Adam.
First of all, the red line is over acapcity in Cambridge.
Secondly, there's a huge maintenance lose by having dedicated tracks.
Third, there's a huge emergency issue (anything breaks, or brakes, ha ha, the whole thing
shuts down)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:43:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You're not wrong in re the maintenance lose or the emergency issue.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:43:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: almost funny joke <christy>

n.n totally looks like a pair of mittens covering up a person's
eyes... (was that the intention?)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:44:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Meaning you disagree on capacity?:)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:44:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But, I mean, if we start talking about pony expansions of and
enhancements to the Boston rapid transit network, we'll be here all
night.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:44:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

For capacity, are they actually running trains at the maximum
frequency the signalling allows?  (And, could signal improvements
reasonbly greatly increase that?)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:44:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I have yet to be unable to get on a red line train due to it being
overfull.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:44:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Chain Reaction <kchen>

I saw a report about this.  Let me see if I can find it...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I saw this regularly when I lived on the Lex in New York.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Kevin: search for Urban LAnd Institute

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: almost funny joke <christy>

Although, that's two right hands...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I have seen red line trains that left people behind due to overfull.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Recycle <kchen>

yep, just did that :)
(Actually, I searched for uli, without remembering what it stood for.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And the red line already uses moving-block computerized signaling and
can't run any more trains, right?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(well, modulo operating budget, I guess)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:45:43 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hah*

no, idiomatically, i use it to mean "neutral-to-mild smile", as it's
less "big" than both ^_^ and :)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:46:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Pass Thru <kchen>

http://nuweb9.neu.edu/dukakiscenter/wp-content/uploads/Final-Hub-and-Spoke-Report.pdf

I think there's another version of this file -- not sure if it has the
same content.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:46:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Geoff, um, if you want me to take this elsewhere, I'd be happy to.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:46:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

whatever, it's fine

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:47:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is there a real disadvantage to wayside signalling? Is it, eg, found
to increase accidents compared to in-cab?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:47:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, you can't have moving blocks with wayside signals.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:48:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(can you? I don't think so...)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:48:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Right and Left Grand <kchen>

Also, for what it's worth, I've definitely avoided getting on trains
because they were too full, and waited for the next one.  But this is
generally when something broke, so it's been a while since the
previous train.  (But that happens surprisingly frequently.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:49:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, yes, the Red Line's aging rolling stock is also a problem.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:50:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Skimmed report; couldn't actually find any details on Red Line
signalling.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:51:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Heads Touch 1/4 <kchen>

Yeah, I'm not seeing anything either.  (But I'm unhappy with the way
my pdf reader is handling scrolling, making it harder for me to tell.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:51:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Pass Thru <kchen>

(Oh hey, just found the right button to make me happier.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:52:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The red line has had cab signals since the 70s, incidentally.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:53:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Swing Thru, Other Girl Run <kchen>

Oh, page 12:

Trains Per Hour: The number of trains that can be run per hour
depends on the “headways” or the amount of time between trains. For
example, in the underground portion of the Green Line — usually
called the Central Subway — there are cars running every 5-7 minutes
on the Boston College (B), Cleveland Circle (C), Riverside (D) and
Heath Street (E) branches, so the “headways” can be as frequent as
every 90 seconds or so, for a total of 42 trains per hour during peak
periods. The MBTA can increase headways only if the power and signal
systems can ensure that trains can safely run more frequently (and if
there are enough vehicles). The condition of signal systems needed to
maintain headways is a concern on both the Red Line and Green Line.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:53:23 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, what?  I thought they were retrofits for the 1600 and 1500s?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:53:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:53:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Green Line's signaling is an absolute disgrace.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:54:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... what's a moving block?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:54:35 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Until the big flood in 1996, parts of the Green Line's signalling
dated from the turn of the century.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:55:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I believe they're at maximum frequency for current signalling on the
Red Line.  I'm less convinced that this couldn't be improved with
smaller block sizes and so on.  (And possibly newer rolling stock with
better acceleration profiles.)  But electronics and steel are still
cheaper than pouring concrete.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:56:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

What's a block size?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:56:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A block is a length of track that it is only safe for one train to be
in at a given time.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:57:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

You divide tracks into a series of segments (blocks) each of which you
allow only one train at a time in.  You have sensors that can tell if
there is a train in a given block, and don't permit the next train in
unless the previous one has cleared it.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:57:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I...look, can I just pull up an incredibly nerdy explanation of
interlocking on the NYC subway? It's a simpler case (fixed-block),
and exhaustively explained.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:58:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/signals.html

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:58:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If your eyes glaze over after the first few sentences,
congratulations, you're a healthy normal adult.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:59:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For maximum nerdiness:

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/NXSYS,_Signalling_and_Interlocking_Simulator

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 19:59:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(He came to my freshman seminar and demo'd that)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:00:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Neat. (the demo, I already knew about NXSYS)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:01:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, does "moving block" mean that the regions aren't static, and are
instead centered on the train, which presumably allows a smaller size
(if you're, eg, trying to ensure a minimum separation)...?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:01:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:02:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Which is only possible with more sophisticated signaling systems that
are capable of tracking a train's position more closely.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:02:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

 : D re: knigted

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:02:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Incidentally, there's an (inactive) interlocking machine with a
(live) display board at the platform level of the NYC Transit Museum
in Brooklyn. It's pretty cool to watch.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:03:09 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I keep failing to go there when it's open

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:03:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Scoot Back <kchen>

I looked at it, but didn't really know enough to really be able to
read what it was doing, iirc.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:03:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It does close unfortunately early.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:03:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But it is super fun if you are a nerd.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:04:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(For those unaware, it's built in an abandoned subway station that's
still connected to the system. There are vintage trains (with
decades-old ads in them, which are hilarious), at the platform level.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:05:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I recommend visiting it, and then following that up with a visit to
the newish Shake Shack conveniently located nearby. But I would say
that.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:06:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Outsides Cloverleaf <kchen>

Hmm, found a picture I took of the display board, but it's blurry.  I
seem to recall the lighting being bad, because the other pictures I
have from that room are also blurry.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:07:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The lighting is indeed bad.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:08:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's approximately as bad as an actual NYC subway station platform.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:09:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Fan The Top <kchen>

For what it's worth, if anyone goes there, consider buying an MoS
membership, which gets you into the NYC transit museum for free.  Of
course, the transit museum is pretty cheap, but the MoS membership
also gets you into more expensive museums too.  (I visited the
Intrepid while in NYC too.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:10:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

New York needs a science museum that isn't in middle-of-nowher,
Queens.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:18:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

You mean s/science/transit/, right?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:18:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, it was in response to kchen's MoS comment.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:18:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The Transit Museum is in Brooklyn.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:19:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Oh. Point.

AMNH doesn't count as a science museum for you?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:19:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and downtown Brooklyn, at most two stops in)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:19:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I guess it does.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:19:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It just has less whiz-bang than the Boston MoS or the London MoS or
the Exploratorium (which I finally visited last spring!)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:22:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

I'm vaguely sad they don't do reciprocity with the rest of ASTC
(Association of Science - Technology Centers) museums.  But then
again, I don't know if they're even an ASTC member.  But I also had
enough to do in NYC the two days I was there anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:22:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Fan The Top <kchen>

ah, they are an ASTC member.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:22:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The AMNH is still pretty damn cool, though, even if some of the
exhibits are kinda wince-inducingly dated.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:23:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Explode The Wave <kchen>

Apparently so is the Museum of Mathematics (but it also doesn't
participate in the reciprocity, and isn't open quite yet).

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:23:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh man, I am so excited about the MoM finally opening soonish

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:24:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I was at a conference where the guy in charge presented about some of
the work he was doing and bought him a drink afterwards.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:42:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if I'd be healthier if I found some form of caffeine delivery
mechanism other than soda.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:42:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like growing carrots in caffeinated hydroponics, or something.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:43:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Tea?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:43:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oh right

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:44:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I assume coffee has already been considered and rejected?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:44:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Except that "tea" to me is sweet tea because I grew up in the South

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:44:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Black coffee, tea. Or just go for insufflation.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:44:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Coffee, too, is full of sugar.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:44:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess I could try this strange concept of tea and coffee that
doesn't have sugar

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:45:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I /like/ unsweetened coffee or tea.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:45:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

The acid in soda is bad for you, so I would take the sugar in sweet
tea over soda.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:45:45 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

==

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:45:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

There's also splenda

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:45:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Dude, try non-sweet tea. I think finding it is a challenge you can overcome.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:47:01 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Artificial sweeteners: just say no.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:48:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I just read a study about osteoporosis and excessive acid
consumption, and long term consumption is bad (calcium from your bones
is pulled out to neutralize the acid; veggies are pretty much
alkaline, so you can eat as much of those as you want, since the body
prefers a slight alkaline bias).

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:48:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Coffee and tea are also, um, acidic.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:48:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Not as much as soda.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:49:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

But yeah, if you can do it without sugar, go for it! I also read about
a study talking about the long-term effects of high glucose levels on
the body and that doesn't look good either. :/

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:50:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: "I'm sorry you're wrong"

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:50:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

christy: Yeah, maybe the right answer is just to not sweeten my tea
as much. (And in theory sugar is better than HFCS in soda, anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

christy: If I were caring about studies, I'd drink a glass of red
wine every day at work

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

It is... I also recently read about a study comparing fructose to
glucose...

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

HFCS ===~ sugar

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, but you obviously care about health or you wouldn't be asking.
:)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends. - Oscar Wilde
 <rnjacobs>

for health benefits, anyway :p

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:51:54 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: And he smiled to gaze upon her, did this sly bold Reynardine <kdrinkwa>

I mean you can start with sweet tea and then gradually sweeten it
less.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 20:52:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Also, pH of tea is 6-6.6, which is to say "only in the most technical sense acidic"

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 21:17:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Christy: My understanding has been that the phosphorus (in the form of
phosphoric acid?) in many sodas is part of why calcium is depleted from 
your bones. The body needs to maintain a certain balance of phosphorus to
calcium (amongst many other minerals), and the additional phosphorus
causes it to be depleted from one's bones.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 21:18:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(so, not necessarily about acidity)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 21:20:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(Similarly, one needs to be careful when taking magnesium supplements.)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Wed Aug 15 21:27:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I just read this recently about acid intake; I haven't read anything
specifically about phosphorous (the author also made a comment about
how animal protein consumption also causes this leaching, since it's
also an acid load). I'll read up and get back to you on that one. 

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:05:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

adehnert / work / adehnert  2012-08-15 19:04  (Alex Dehnert)
    "the Ecosystems Engineering team is responsible for strategic
    planning and engineering engagements with VMware's partner ecosystem"

    What.
peairs / reefer-madness.mondegreen / ariels  2012-08-15 19:04  ("We
    What does that even mean?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:05:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

==ariels

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:06:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This Debian patch's name starts with "refuse to break".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:07:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm going to start using that. "Currently, we break under such
condition. I'll add some code that makes our software refuse to break
when that happens"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:07:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Is that like Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:08:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

"We said so, so it must be true!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:08:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

+       /* 
+        * Spawn a second process to check the GL texture limits
+        * We do this across a process boundary to ensure that crashes
+        * in the GL driver (which are unfortunately common) don't take
+        * down the app.
+        */

*sigh* I will kill every graphics card driver author in their sleep

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:09:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You and Matthew Garrett and Keith Packard should team up.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:10:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"gives a new meaning to Debian X Strike Force"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:10:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

++

Class: geofft Instance: seen-above-nectarines-at-safeway
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:51:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"... In fact, they're so deliciously unique, they're patented. ..."

Class: geofft Instance: seen-above-nectarines-at-safeway
Time: Wed Aug 15 22:52:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...

Class: geofft Instance: scheduling
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:07:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I should just decide that I'm leaving work at 7 no matter what and let
my morning schedule adjust

Class: geofft Instance: scheduling
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:07:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's not like I can't do work on the train...

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:21:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh. svn up --set-depth empty _almost_ does not require a network
connection!

Class: geofft Instance: working-on-the-train
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:24:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have more useful things to do than read LWN weekly... I have more
useful things to do than read LWN weekly...

Class: geofft Instance: working-on-the-train
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:25:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You do?

Class: geofft Instance: working-on-the-train
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:25:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: working-on-the-train
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:26:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vinegar. <ezyang>

I dunno, reading LWN weekly seems pretty useful to me...

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:56:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woah, Mercurial's data model looks awesome

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:57:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Reading Matt Mackall's "Towards a Better SCM: Revlog and Mercurial"

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Wed Aug 15 23:59:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of BEOWULF. <ezyang>

What is awesome about it?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:00:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I found it to be cumbersome compared to git.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:00:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(afk for a few minutes)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:16:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Mercurial tracks history in a file-by-file basis

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:18:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

there's a data structure that records a single file's history in an
efficient way. So things 'hg log file' are vaguely efficient by virtue
of that.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:19:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It actually stores file diffs (with full files every few revisions),
which git doesn't do. So there's no packed/unpacked tradeoff

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:19:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It also optimizes for efficient disk access / layout to minimize
seeks.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:22:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I've found hg to be very very noticebly slower than git in general. I
dunno if the data store itself can in theory be implemented better,
but the current implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 00:26:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I also remember it being pretty awkward to throw away a bunch of
(unpushed) commits because you realized they were bogus. I think just
updating to an earlier revision and committing from there didn't work
because hg cares a lot about the current set of heads. It's possible
I failed at searching, but the best thing I could find was to make a
new clone.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 01:55:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

[stark]
To what extent do you drink tea now, and what kind (hot or iced, and
how much sugar)?  
When you said "sweet tea", I know what you're talking about; I'm not
sure everyone does.  Southern-style sweet tea is *very* sugary, but
more to the point, I doubt you can find it outside the South (which is
why I ask).  While it's true that sweet tea is just iced tea and sugar, I 
consider it a different beast (conceptually) from "sweetened iced tea".

You might actually try not "weaning" yourself over from sweet tea,
but rather trying unsweet tea and thinking of it as a new thing rather
than a variant of the thing you're used to.  (If you switch to hot tea
in the process, this can help with the conceptual separation.)  

Class: geofft Instance: hey-guys
Time: Thu Aug 16 02:11:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

if you make alfredo sauce with too much cheese, and stir it into
macaroni, you get something rather like mac and cheese

Class: geofft Instance: hey-guys
Time: Thu Aug 16 02:12:40 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

heh

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 02:29:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I mostly dislike unsweetened iced tea. Most of the commercial bottled
tea I can get in e.g. Boston is not horribly sweet.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 02:30:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think I will try unsweetened iced green tea, which is sufficiently
different (but still disappointing)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:22:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

> some form of caffeine delivery mechanism other than soda

It comes in pills, you know

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:23:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But that's an unpopular option because it bypasses the social
mechanisms for pretending that a caffeine addiction isn't an actual
drug addiction

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:53:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is the dosage (and pricing) reasonable? IIRC NoDoz is "one pill is two
cups of coffee" or something ridiculous.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:54:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

You can use your MIT ECAT account to buy powdered caffeine and then
put it in, say, a salt shaker.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:55:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I did it! I killed the last American eagle!" <mherdeg>

The problem is that for about $50 you get a lethal dose.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:55:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never skip a chance to eat, sleep, or pee; another chance may be a long time coming. <mherdeg>

(Sigma Aldrich.)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:58:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Because you don't want two cups of coffee at once?  You can cut pills
in half.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 05:59:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The caffeine pills I have (CVS brand) are 200 mg each, which they say
is "about as much caffeine as a cup of coffee".  That may or may not
be bogus.  Anyway coffee is going to vary a lot, and cups too.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 06:00:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And yeah, the price works out much cheaper than drinking soda

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 06:04:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This was I think about $10 for 80 pills of 200 mg each.  Diet Coke has
about 125 mg/l, so you'd need about 64 two-liter bottles to get the
same amount of caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 06:53:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

an FDA standard cup of coffee (6oz) contains 90mg caffeine.

A sampling of test results for Starbucks medium coffees (light roast)
ranges from 260mg/cup to 560mg/cup (16oz) with an average around 330mg

For what that's worth.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 06:54:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

Also, $20 will get you a kilogram of caffeine from amazon.

which. yeah. you can't fit in your face, let alone survive.....

i'm not sure if i'd say that's a "problem" exactly, though. if
anything is cheap enough, you can buy enough to kill yourself.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 11:05:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(starking)
clearly a FDA standard cup of coffee is a cup of midwestern diner
coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 11:21:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

An espresso shot from Starbucks also has around 100mg caffeine. ++ on
the salt shaker idea though. (Have you tried black tea? That has
around 60-100mg per cup and is harder to OD on.)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 12:24:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Also, caffeine is pretty awful and bitter tasting by itself.  If you
have a shaker you'd need to be good at mixing.

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 12:24:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I don't know how readily it dissolves, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Thu Aug 16 12:28:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:   <gdkar>

"enough"

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:11:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Like davidben, I found hg to be much slower than git when I had to use
it.  I'd be more easily impressed by whatever hacks the hg format uses
for speed if it actually ended up fast.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:12:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I would not be shocked if the difference really is just that hg is
implemented in Python by some random programmer, whereas git is
implemented in C by someone who is professionally anal about
performance.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:12:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, quite possible.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:12:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But part of that professional anality about performance is that Linus has
a real sense of what makes a difference and what is just noise.  Which
Matt Mackall may not have had so well.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:15:54 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

From what I can tell, git is big on thinking about IO
performance, and hardly anyone but database and filesystem
nerds ever thinks about that, so yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:18:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

git is good at pinning the hdd led on my laptop.
FreeBSD's UFS fsck is also good at this; interestingly, Linux's e2fs
fsck is not.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:20:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

hg is attempting to think about I/O performance. I would buy that
he's chasing the wrong bottlenecks.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:20:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

For example, I don't know what hg does to optimize for efficient disk
access and minimize seeks, but git certainly does that.  Pack files
(AIUI) have the blobs sorted by the paths they're found at -- sure it
reaches across abstraction layers, but it makes things fast, so Linus did
it.  It helps first off with compression by putting similar blobs nearby,
but then it also puts the files 'git log $file' needs next to each other.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:21:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah, packfiles are ridiculously clever.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:21:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's also the case that this per-file history structure ("revlog")
doesn't _actually_ make `hg log $file` or `hg blame $file` faster,
because you need to reverse-lookup which commit a file was in before
displaying that. I think approximately the only user-exposed thing it
optimizes would be pickaxe logging

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:22:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Good compression is a big part of Linus's approach to I/O performance in
git, I think.  Storing whole copies every few revisions sounds pretty
nasty in that respect.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:22:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, the paper seems to have a lot of harshing on packfiles and saying
that they can't possibly be efficient.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:23:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The paper is lying.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:23:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It's possible that they aren't asymptotically efficient in certain
ways, but empirically they're fast as hell in practice.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:23:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Sure.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:23:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Someone should write a rebuttal. :)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:25:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does the paper have benchmarking, or just an argument?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:26:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

e.g. I believe git searches packfile indexes using an interpolation
search that's tweaked to be efficient on spinning media -- which
doesn't actually help your asymptotics over a naive binary search,
but which probably makes an enormous practical difference.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:28:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just an argument.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:29:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm, in an abstract context an interpolation search (aka dictionary
search) takes O(log log n) lookups while a binary search takes O(log n).
I once read but have forgotten how Git does its search in packfiles.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:29:38 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Oh, true, I'm wrong on that count :)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:29:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/Presentations?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ols-mercurial-paper.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:31:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Do you know the date on this?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:31:19 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Even its references have no dates, which deprives me of my usual way of
guessing a paper's date.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:31:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's from oLS 2006.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:31:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I am reminded of Facebook's scaling troubles with git, and am
wondering if this paper is relevant to them at all.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:32:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think Facebook's scaling troubles with git are centered on the
inability to really deal with less than the entire project's entire
history at once.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:32:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I kind of want to know what sort of dark magic Github does. (The svn
book, incidentally, mentions that Google has their own bigtable-backed
svn repo implementation)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:32:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They also have their own bigtable-backed hg and git implementations.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:38:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

This paper is really pretty bad.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:38:46 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

There are no graphs.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:38:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I know this may just be git warping my mind, but storing history
per-file seems so cumbersome to me!

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:38:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:38:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

There is no real comparison with any of the alternatives.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:39:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

nelhage: It's different, is mostly why I remarked on it, and with
appropriate metadata can be better for lots of operations. (If you had
better backreferences, it would make `hg log $file` very fast)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:39:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

They compare with the alternatives! It just seems to be mostly
$alternative does $thing, which has $disadvantage.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:40:01 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I wonder how hg makes commits transactional given that you have to
modify a bunch of different revlogs.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:40:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"""By using hardlinks and copy-on-write techniques, Mercurial can
create independent lightweight copies of entire repositories in
seconds. This is an important part of Mercurial’s distributed model -
branches are cheap and discardable."""

As a git user, that paragraph is *adorable*.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:40:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It seems like this should be totally possible to, like, actually
benchmark. (At an "overall performance" level, if not checking the
various specific things.)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:40:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Well, I think the important thing is that adding a record to the
revlog doesn't actually ~do anything until you reference it from the
changelog revlog.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:40:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't think either git or hg get to claim originality there...

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

re:ghudson (I think)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(He points out they both derived from mtn)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Wait-wait, *in seconds*?!?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I'm not commenting on originality, I'm commenting that it's adorable
that they think their branches are lightweight.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

nelhage is correct

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Also ==price

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I hope that is him lazily typing a cliche, and not an actual observation.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:46 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

So an aborted commit results in a bunch of garbage in the revlog
files?  Is that ever cleaned up?  (I don't really expect people here
to know, but those are the kinds of things I would worry about.  git
can also leave garbage behind, but it expects to have periodic garbage
collection going on.)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:41:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Well, I think the operation he's referring to is cloning to a
different place on local disk.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:42:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Which before git is mostly how people thought you did branching.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:42:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

http://nimoysunsetpie.tumblr.com/post/4046659255/mr-spock-intergalactic-pie-gangster
is by Matt Mackall. I'm not sure which, that blog or hg, is his
greatest invention.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

No remark on the actual hg conversation here, since you folks seem to
have that covered (and I agree with basically everything).

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Anyways, ==price, this paper is terrible, and his "arguments" about
git being slow are pretty much just violent handwaving.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Still.  With a warm cache,

$ time git clone --bare linux linux-tmp
Cloning into bare repository 'linux-tmp'...
done.

real    0m0.047s
user    0m0.020s
sys     0m0.016s

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:19 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

It's certainly not how svn or cvs does branching (although CVS does
branching in a horrifying way, so that doesn't really count).  It may
be how other DVCS tools thought you did it, but I don't think that's
necessarily true either.  Maybe just darcs.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(It is 12s if I make a non-bare clone, i.e. actually check out the whole
thing.)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:43:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(I guess I'm on an SSD, which is unfair.)

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:45:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

"Shortly before the first release, I read an article about the ongoing
Bitkeeper debacle that described Larry McVoy as mercurial (in the
sense of 'fickle'). Given the multiple meanings, the convenient
abbreviation, and the good fit with my pre-existing naming scheme (see
my email address), it clicked instantly. Mercurial is thus named in
Larry's honor. I do not know if the same is true of Git."
That is awesome, especially the joke about the name of git. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial )

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:46:36 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ha, that is pretty good.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:47:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Linus makes a related joke -- "I name all my projects after myself.
First Linux, then git."

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:47:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Also,

"packed git requires searching a collection of indices that grow as
the project history grows."

is totally disingenuous, because

(a) the interpolation search means searching a single index is
sublinear

(b) Technically the number of indexes is potentially linear, but git
repacks aggressively enough that it's O(1) in practice (and I *think*
it even repacks packs once you have enough of them, so it may even be
< O(n) in general, using the defaults)

(c) git's indexes fit in buffer cache in basically all common cases,
so ~whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:47:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'm not sure it's even disingenuous, just inadequately-thought-through.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:48:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Fair enuogh. "Possibly technically correct, but basically irrelevant"

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:50:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I'm also confused how things are named in the revlog. I thought they
were named by hash, but then you also have to look up that hash in
the revlog index, which makes his argument doubly bullshit.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:51:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hg spends altogether too much effort on trying to have monotonic
commit numbers /and/ unique commit ids.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:51:15 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I guess the "base" and "link" pointers are small-integer sequential
IDs, but I'm not sure how that works with the "just concatenate"
strategy of merging revlog files.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:51:44 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Unless by "remove duplicates and append" he means "remove duplicates,
renumber, and append"

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:52:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Which is not *hard*, but is complicated enough that I might dispute
his assertion that it's "trivial".

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:52:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Anyways, I think I'm going to go back to not caring about mercurial.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:53:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Actually, one more thought -- I wonder if Linus has a ranty response
to this paper anywhere.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:53:42 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

And if not, I wonder if we can make him write one by constructing the
appropriate trolling email to the git mailing list.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:55:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I fear the process of Git taking over the world may be too far along for
that to work.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:57:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I wonder if git has a decent chance of supplanting Perforce. I'm not
sure what it's missing so far.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:57:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Graphical tools and process for one.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:58:00 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Management of big projects (which git would spread across
multiple repositories) for another.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:58:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Needs more security blankets for ops.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:58:37 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

"i.e. ==tibbetts, but with more snark)

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:59:22 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Having just reviewed the Accurev Kando product this
morning, I think they articulated the problem pretty well,
but their solution I don't love.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:59:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> security blankets for ops
Ooh, I like that.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:59:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

They include plenty of securty blankets.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:59:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Also auditable process for your auditing auditors to audit.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 16:59:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(security blankets for the auditors)

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:00:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The phrasing, that is.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:01:10 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

The other thing is that git needs to have a credible solution for
working with multiple repositories that doesn't make you want to
gouge your own eyes out.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:01:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is Git readily usable on Windows yet?  Circa 2008 that was a major
reason for some open-source projects to choose Mercurial instead (e.g.
Mozilla.)

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:01:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can I make my submodules track a branch yet?

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:02:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

There is "github for windows". Which suggests that we're probably at
least closer than we were.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:02:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, that would.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:02:21 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: During the Great Depression, the Tennessee Valley Authority outlawed pet rabbits, forcing many to hot glue-gun long ears onto their pet mice. <asedeno>

I use Git for Windows here and there.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:03:01 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Whoever wins this battle is clearly superior, and will earn the allegiance of the Fact Sphere. <asedeno>

Also, http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:03:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'm not actually sure "multiple repositories" is the thing Git needs --
the problems that would solve, people who use svn and p4 seem to solve
by having one giant repo but checking out only pieces of it.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:04:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's just that in Git the assumptions that a repository is indivisible
go so deep that the hacks we've used so far for those problems
(submodules, and the Android thing ("repo"?)) involve multiple
repositories.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:04:25 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Sure, or git needs to learn to deal with subtrees. But there seems to
be a lot more opposition to that by the maintainers/community.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:05:24 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I'm unhappy with my svn respository which is huge and I
check out subtrees, fwiw. I think something like hg's
semi-standard forests would be better.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:05:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What are hg forests?

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:06:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"[warning icon] This third-party extension does not appear to be
actively maintained. Consider using subrepos instead."

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:06:28 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I only know them from Java
http://openjdk.java.net/guide/repositories.html

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:06:51 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Of course, the Clearcase/Accurev people appear to have
another way of thinking about this problem, and they might
even be right.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:07:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Unfortunately I don't actually understand their world

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:07:38 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

My summary would be that git needs the emotional maturity
to admit that it might need to learn something from
Clearcase, and go learn that thing.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:07:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'd be interested to hear/read from someone who did.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:08:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

All the competent Clearcase people fled IBM years ago and
have mostly left version control AFAICT.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:08:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Little known fact: Clearcase was also written by a cutting
edge OS kernel team in order to help them get their own
work done.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:09:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Huh.  When did they write it?

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:11:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And backing up, have you ever used git submodules?  hg forests sound
pretty similar and I'm curious how they differ.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:14:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's not a system called 'X-Windows', it's a window system named 'X',
after the owl on "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood." <eichin>

"in the late 80s, on domain/os"

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:14:50 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think git gets a lot of mileage about not solving all the problems
people think they have, and svn lost of a lot of mileage that way
(severable working copies being one of the clearest examples), so I'm
not sure if git needs to think that it has anything to learn from
Clearcase.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:15:05 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: nothing to see here <kcr>

Everyone I know who likes perforce raves about the timeline
slider gui thingy.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:17:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Maybe I need to use the GUI more to think it's worthwhile.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:17:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Clearcase was written ffirst as DSEE by the kernel team at
Apollo in 1989, roughly. It was actually a filesystem
plugin.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:17:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Rational_ClearCase#DSEE

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:18:43 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

It was not only a filesystem plugin but also a build system.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:19:14 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

When they commercialized it and ported it to unix wihtout
the filesystem plugin, it started a decline.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:19:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We had to use Clearcase at Bear. It was...painful.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:21:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

...was it a bear?

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:22:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Uncoil and do not cover with any material <yoz>

So unbearable you wanted to claw your eyes out?

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:22:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

After trying to use it for a few weeks, we trapped it in a cave and fed it nightly snapshots from
svn.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:23:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(This was before git's ui became usable)

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 17:25:52 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I get a sense that about 75% of people like or love Perforce and 25%
hate it.  For Clearcase, it's more like 10/90, with a lot of people
using it only because they paid $BIGNUM up front and management wasn't
willing to let that be a sunk cost.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:00:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> (I guess I'm on an SSD, which is unfair.)

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think my laptop hard drive can so
much as `cp -a` the Linux tree in that much time

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:02:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Er, I'd expect cp -a to be much slower than 'git clone --bare' on local disk.

Class: geofft Instance: hq
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:02:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Of course, the Clearcase/Accurev people appear to have
> another way of thinking about this problem, and they might
> even be right.

What is this way of thinking?

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:03:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I missed --bare too.

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:03:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But even so

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:12:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

For some reason I think of bytes as smaller than dollars

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:12:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

like the value of 1 kilobyte seems, in some abstract sense, smaller
than $1K

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:22:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Yes Ian, I have a fetish for the T. That's why I live off campus. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:22:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Eh. They're are several reasonable ways to come up with a conversion
rate between bytes and dollars, and I think they tend to given values
of less than $1/byte.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:22:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I need to get better at shooting yaks in the head. -afarrell <ismith>

"I believe the current exchange rate is closer to 1GB/$."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:22:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

("Buynig a hard disk" and "buying some RAM", for example.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:23:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I guess so

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:23:53 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Is that really worse than supporting Amazon?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:23:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:24:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Also, I guess, "buying data from $cell_manufacturer".

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:24:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ian doesn't need drugs, he's weird enough as it is. -danjared <ismith>

"Buying the equivalent amount of data in pigeons."

Class: geofft Instance: hg
Time: Thu Aug 16 18:38:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

git clone of a local path uses hardlinks, so it’s much faster than
‘cp -a’.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 16 19:59:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: @Caltrain_News
Time: Thu Aug 16 19:59:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"police action" is the worst euphemism

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 16 20:00:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

okay I refuse to do any more work until I have one ATI and one Nvidia
machine on my desk

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 16 20:00:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Really I just want kvm -vga ati or -vga nvidia.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Thu Aug 16 20:30:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Who are Addison, Channing, etc.?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 16 21:15:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> Berkeley

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 01:52:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A bunch of those seem to be poets, so Channing could be this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellery_Channing_(poet)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 01:54:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Alternatively it could be his more famous uncle, this guy:
http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articles/williamellerychanning.html

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 01:56:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Haha, and of course here's the answer:
http://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-streets-in-Palo-Alto-named-after-famous-writers

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 01:56:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(It says it's the uncle)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 01:57:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(If you're roaming Boston Common, the Public Garden has a statue of him
at the southwest corner, facing the church he was the minister of for
many years)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:12:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... How did this come up?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:13:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

You've never wondered about the downtown Palo Alto street names?

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:14:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I don't think of those as downtown Palo Alto street names."

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:15:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ha, OK.  Channing was my cross street when I lived there.  The sequence
from University southward is Hamilton, Forest, Homer, Channing, Addison,
Lincoln, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:15:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I vaguely knew they were authors, and didn't real care about the details.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:15:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That's more or less where I'd stood (as evidenced by never having looked
them up until now.)

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 02:16:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(By "south" I of course mean in Peninsula coordinates, i.e. "just east of
southeast" in Palo Alto.)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 13:45:13 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> Go read the sad story of the railroad bankruptcies, Conrail, and its
>       dismantlement and fire-sale if you want the story there.

"The Men Who Loved Trains" by Rush Loving is a good picture...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 13:45:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Huh, haven't read that.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 13:45:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

but do I have the rough outline ~correct?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 13:45:57 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 14:43:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They're also Berkeley street names.

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 14:46:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Not a reduced calorie food <yoz>

Yeah, there's some story I heard once about someone falling asleep in
a car in Palo Alto, and the car driving to Berkeley and the other
people in it trying to convince the sleeper that they hadn't actually
gone anywhere, because the streets were all the same.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 17 14:47:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ugh, I need to start getting to sleep sooner.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 17 14:47:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

skipped most zephyrs outside of personals

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 14:53:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You could totally get away with that in the Boston area too.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Fri Aug 17 15:34:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

DID SOMEONE SAY LD_PRELOAD????

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:30:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

this is the worst website

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:31:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf the HCK is a 2.5 GIGABYTE download

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:31:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's like three Ubuntus

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:31:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... it's an EXE downloader?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:32:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

WTF Microsoft do you expect that everyone using your website has
windows

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:32:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Self-extracting zip?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:32:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uhhh... Probably?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:32:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No, its content-length is a little under 1 MB, so I assume it's a
downloader.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:32:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The best part is that it's probably only a .exe so they can sign it
with their .exe-signing tools.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:33:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

90% (WAG) of the world uses Windows, and I bet the MS website is
disproportionately used by Windows users...

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:33:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

All right, starting my Windows VM. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:33:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Have you considered WINE?"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:33:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yes, and rejected it

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:34:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are you happy about this choice?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:34:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Basically yes.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:34:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Would you say you're grovelling in submission?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:34:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:35:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:35:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"You should listen to Wicked more."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:35:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... so Wicked is playing in my head right now, and I think only
started playing a few minutes ago.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:35:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if my subconscious listens to Wicked more than I do.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:43:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, I technically should not be driving right now

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:43:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I should go get a California license.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:46:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... wait, the timeout is 10 days, not six months?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:46:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:47:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I am headtilting all over the place. - pbaranay <wings>

?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:47:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Newsflash: People suck.  No more at 11. - lexrj <wings>

Timeout?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:47:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

for being allowed to use an out-of-state driver's license once you've
become a resident

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:48:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> If you have a license from another state, the driving test can be
> waived.

Oh, convenient

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:48:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'm not fucking anyone who doesn't use Pages or Beamer. - ismith <wings>

Ah

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:48:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Provide your true full name

Okay just about every fantasy novel I've read insists that people who
know my True Name have power over me. :-(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was a baby! <mherdeg>

Also, are they really gonna accept "Ged"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:48:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't spell 'ponies' without 'penis'! - geofft <wings>

Right.  The government wants that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:50:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

i,i Geoffrey of the family Thomas

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:50:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:51:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

(When hauled into court for not paying taxes, adherents of the
freeman-on-the-land theory will present their birth certificate 
and claim that the court's power extends only to that piece of paper.
Wikipedia: "They say that all people have two parts to their existence
- their body and their legal "person". The latter is represented by
their birth certificate; some freeman will claim that it is entirely
limited to the birth certificate. Under this theory, a "strawman" is
created when a birth certificate is issued, and that this is the
entity which is subject to statutory law. The physical self is
referred to by a slightly different name, for example "John of the
family Smith", as opposed to "John Smith".")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:52:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, tax 'protestors'.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:52:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Endless amusement.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:56:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wow

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 18:56:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They're not just tax protestors, according to the "Some court cases"
section! They also violate traffic laws and grow cannabis

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:03:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Below are separate sets of License Terms. Only one set applies to
you."

... i,i choose wisely

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:04:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

One of them made a YouTube video of a baffling encounter with local
magistrate judges at a hearing, then got popular on BoingBoing a while
back.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:06:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh huh, "damage" comes from "that which is damned"?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:07:03 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The 'damnage' as it were?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:07:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess it's actually the other way around, the damned are those that
are lost or damaged.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:08:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I was curious why French uses the same word ("dommage") for "dammit"
and "damage"

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:12:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

Hmm, OED gives us < Latin damnum loss, hurt, damage >

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:49:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

A red arrow means "no turn on red"? TIL

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:49:54 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A parrot, kipping on its back.
 <rnjacobs>

.... What else could it mean?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:50:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"this will turn into a green arrow"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:51:51 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>A red arrow means "no turn on red"? TIL

Depends on the state.  In MA, apparently, the arrow only indicates the
valid direction of travel that the light controls.  You can still turn
right on a red arrow unless posted (which is idiotic, but we have no
shortage of idiotic traffic laws)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:52:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right, that's what I would have assumed.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:52:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

Oh jeez, does California's "right red arrow" also mean "no right on
red"? I think in Washington state "right red arrow" means "stop, but
you may turn right on red as usual".

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:52:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Tell me you don't know you're hollow. Tell me you're not already dead." <mherdeg>

(Comparing http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21453.htm,
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.055)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:52:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If only there were some MANUAL containing UNIFORM information about
TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:52:52 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Just wait until you see the rules for TRAINS.

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:53:06 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"What doe flashing red over green over red mean, again?"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:53:22 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

.... What on earth is the point of having a light that can sometimes be a red
arrow pointing right if not to say DON'T?

In other words: (jdreed{19:51:51}: buh)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:53:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"It means the CD in your train is not compatible with this Xbox"

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:53:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 19:54:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Oh I have suddenly forgot all the rules for train signals! Maybe
someone can elucidate ...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:00:20 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

wait, seriously?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:00:27 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

(about MA letting you turn right on red arrows)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:01:16 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes.  We're dumb like that.  

"See also, Powder House Square."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:01:33 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I totally never knew that. that's awesome

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:02:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

If you want a citation, http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/chapter4.pdf

"A steady red arrow means the same as a steady red, circular signal
(see the preceding Steady Red section). However, it only applies to
vehicles going in the direction of the arrow. The same rules for
“turning on red” apply in
Massachusetts. However, when driving out-of-state, this may not be
true because different states have different laws."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:10:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... as in a steady red arrow means "well, you can go straight if you
want"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:15:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

"Lolol officer I hacked the law you can't arrest me!"

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:25:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

How are you? My name is [...], and I’m a Corporate
Recruiter at [...]. I just came across your Github profile.

I think you might be a good fit for a Windows Application Engineer
position I'm working on. You would be working in our Pleasanton Office
in our Legal vertical. This is a great opportunity for a C++/C#
Developer to learn PHP. 

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:26:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm very confused how you got from my Github, which is approximately
empty anyway, that a) I know C++ or C# b) I don't know PHP c) I use
Windows

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:26:01 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahahah

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:26:19 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i'm confused at why a c++ developer would want an opportunity to learn
php

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:26:37 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

"isn't there a compiler for that?"

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:27:06 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The occupation of court jester was invented accidentally, when a vassal's epilepsy was mistaken for capering. <asedeno>

Wow. Fail.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:27:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: -- <ekate>

Wow.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:28:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, awesome, the recruiter's email address bounces.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:29:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"554 No SMTP service here"

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:29:18 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i got a recruiter like that once

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:29:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think I may call the recruiter to tell them I'm not interested!

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:30:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, I misread that as Objective-C, which like C++ is a language I
pretend to know. I actually have never written a line of C# in my life

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:32:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Hahah, "This is great opportunity for a C++/C# Develoepr to learn PHP."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:33:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Wait, you're allowed to pass on the right?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:33:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's not legal elsewhere, is it?

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq.prnf
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:33:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"I blacked out somewhere south of LA, and woke up in a
cheap motel in Tijuana having learned PHP"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:34:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... wait, you're allowed to use the center left turn lane to turn
_onto_ a street?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:34:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what is up with these traffic rules

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:36:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Boylston. <stum>

that's why those center left turn lane exist, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:36:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No, you use them to leave the street with that lane

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:37:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like you have major street A with a center turn lane intersecting
minor street B. To left-turn from A onto B, you enter that lane so
you're out of the way of people behind you, and then turn when
traffic is clear.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:38:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I've always assumed it was wrong/sketchy/illegal to left-turn from B
onto A by waiting for traffic to your left to be clear, turning onto
A's center lane, and then waiting for traffic to your right to be
clear and merging

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:38:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But apparently that's explicitly allowed!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:38:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Brandon Hall. <stum>

oh. yes. i misunderstood your original post. it is odd, but i have
seen that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:38:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I've seen it, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never install telephone wiring during a lightning storm <yoz>

Oh, I noticed that in... Auckland.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... you're explicitly allowed to make U-turns at all intersections?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Newton Highlands. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

turning left from A to B across a double yellow (not a center turn
lane) is one of my biggest pet peeves

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:19 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Except where posted, yes

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

well, all intersections with lights

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: May contain small parts <yoz>

It makes sense if you think about turning left out of a driveway onto
A.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Hynes Convention Center. <stum>

are we playing "geofft learns how to drive"?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:39:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Weird. Most intersections you don't even have the turning radius to
do so, do you?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I never went to driver's ed, I just waited until I was 18 and passed
the written test and somehow made it through the practical

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Blandford Street. <stum>

if it doesn't, you can do it in 3 points (i've done that a lot)

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> flashing red over green over red
What signaling system has three aspects on a signal?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "The belief in coincidence is the prevalent superstition of the Age of Science." <mherdeg>

What an interesting use of the center-left lane.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:33 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>are we playing "geofft learns how to drive"?

I was going to say, this is like the worst game of Mille Bornes ever

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:40:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

Is this some kind of punny puzzle? Um, a penguin that fell down the
stairs?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:41:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> see also, powder house square

see also, harvard square, inman square, union square, ...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:41:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

No, those all have traffic signals.  Powder House Square is a giant
"fuck you" to motorists and pedestrians alike.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:42:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"If bright sunlight makes the signal lights hard to see, also use
hand-and-arm signals."

Okay now you're just making things up

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:42:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

No, honest question

Class: geofft Instance: else.d
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:43:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Admittedly, I only know nyc subway signals offhand.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:47:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Horse-drawn vehicles and riders of horses or other animals are
entitled to share the road with you. It is a traffic offense to scare
horses or stampede livestock. Slow down or stop, if necessary, or
when requested to do so by the riders or herders."

<3

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:50:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Do not shoot firearms on a highway or at traffic signs."

orly

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:52:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "except in Florida"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:52:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 20:59:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> A red arrow means "no turn on red"? TIL

Yes. I believe I have actually seen arrow stoplights in green arrow,
red arrow, and no arrow modes.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:02:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: There's something happening here <yoz>

Yup. The arrow, if not in no-arrow mode, supersedes the normal signal
for turning traffic.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:02:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I thought everyone knew that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:03:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Red * means you can't go in that direction.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:03:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

yoz: Wait, what does that mean?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:04:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do not wear for sumo wrestling <yoz>

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21453.htm

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:04:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 7% grade 2 miles <yoz>

adehnert: If it's a green arrow, go. If it's a red arrow, stop. If
it's no arrow, do what the regular light says.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:04:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

C# is actually pretty good. Think Java, except with less suck.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:04:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: Apparently it's different in different states

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:05:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, if *not*. I missed the not, and was very confused.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:05:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"and if it's green over yellow, take the diverging route"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:05:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The options for the regular light are "turn", and "pause then turn",
right? (Assuming no "no right turn" sign.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:05:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(slowly)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:06:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Never install telephone wiring during a lightning storm <yoz>

Your puzzlement had me puzzled there. =)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:06:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Uncoil and do not cover with any material <yoz>

Unless it's a left turn, but you might be able to turn left from a
one-way onto another one-way against a red, I don't remember.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:07:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't think you can /ever/ turn left against a red.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:08:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Switch To An Interlocked Diamond <kchen>

I don't know about CA, but you can in at least one of VA or MA.  (VA
is probably what I'm thinking of.)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:08:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think you can turn left from a one-way to a one-way

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:08:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not sure I believe you.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:09:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

You can turn left on red onto a one way in MA, I'm pretty
sure. Though all the cases I can think of have positive
signage anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:09:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

http://www.motorists.org/ma/left_locations.html

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:09:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 3 By 2 Acey Deucey <kchen>

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/dmanual/chapter4.pdf , page 3
"You can turn left on a red light when driving on a one-way street
and turning left onto another one-way street. Stop and yield to
pedestrians and other vehicles before turning."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:10:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

TIL

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:44:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Irony_of_Fate

Class: geofft Instance: bay.area.street.names
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:46:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:55:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

==.  It has the same conceptual foundation as Java, but carried out to
the logical conclusion rather than crippled in arbitrary ways.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 21:57:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That means it's not a sexy language, but potentially good for getting
stuff done.  I don't know if the dev ecosystem is there on
not-Windows, though.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 22:00:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Casually looking at open source development, I've seen a lot of people
explicitly choosing C# lately.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 22:01:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I have no idea how many of them are "teach myself X" projects, though.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 22:04:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's the 12th most popular language on GitHub.  But GitHub skews
heavily towards a particular type of open-source project

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 22:05:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

C is only 6th most popular, and Objective C is nearly as popular as
C++.

Class: geofft Instance: recruiter.mq
Time: Fri Aug 17 22:05:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Sorry, 7th.

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Aug 18 02:00:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

 :D ... but what are you talking about?

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Aug 18 02:25:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"how do I force isatty to return 0 identically"

Class: geofft Instance: help
Time: Sat Aug 18 02:25:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I happen to have an LD_PRELOAD to force isatty to return 1
identically in my Public

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Aug 18 03:03:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> home. My schedule still sucks

Class: geofft Instance: gmotd
Time: Sat Aug 18 03:08:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I am... amused that you get an announcement when logging into Athena
telling you how to use unity

Class: geofft Instance: gmotd
Time: Sat Aug 18 03:08:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(including logging in over ssh, which is how I noticed)

Class: geofft Instance: help.ttants
Time: Sat Aug 18 15:09:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

man lockers (Athena command)
man lockers (things in the men's locker room)

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:06:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just saw a guy walk past in a "Rearden Steel" T-shirt

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-muni
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:42:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I want to walk around naked in the Castro, I should do that some day"

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-muni
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:42:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(apparently in response to someone doing so that I didn't notice)

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-muni
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:47:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 'ii' is one of the funkiest adjectivals you'll ever come across. -zhangc <ismith>

My parents and brother had lunch in the Castro when they were
visiting, and apparently my mom was very surprised to see some dude
just nonchalantly walking around naked.  (The retelling, at least, was
amusing.)  I take it that's a Thing in the Castro?

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-muni
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:47:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: overheard-on-the-muni
Time: Sat Aug 18 16:48:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hear its one of the few places it's legal? Not sure how true that
is.

Class: geofft Instance: archstone
Time: Sun Aug 19 18:38:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, I didn't realize Archstone was responsible for Lehman Brothers'
failure

Class: geofft Instance: archstone
Time: Sun Aug 19 18:40:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

...Archstone the property management company?

Class: geofft Instance: muni.ttants
Time: Sun Aug 19 19:19:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

48-Quintara
48-Quinoa

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Sun Aug 19 19:26:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

walked halfway to the bike shop before remembering my receipt for my
bike was at home

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:12:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I still suck at it

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:12:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe I should wear a watch.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:16:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oh huh. If I'm not in my zephyr screen session, I don't see a clock. I
wonder if that's ridiculously counterproductive

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:17:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(since I don't have a clock widget in xmonad, since I have no widgets)

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:19:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why don't you have an xmobar?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:20:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You can even use gnome-panel with xmonad if you like.  But I have
nothing, as well.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:20:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"If I want to know what time it is, I open a terminal and type 'date'"

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:20:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

*points harder to xmobar*

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:22:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

DO you not carry a cell phone that double as a pocket watch?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:26:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

achernya: I'm happy with no bar.  I did use dzen for a while, and
switched to nothing.  I guess, what's so great about xmobar in
particular?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:27:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

In a news.ycombinator thread earlier today, someone claimed that they
set up a small script to announce the time every five minutes, and
that their day seemed dramatically longer as a result.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:31:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

htns: It's a minimalistic bar that you can hide with Mod-b (I
believe). It's basically == to a statusline in screen, except
it's...an x thing.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:31:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Does showing/hiding it resize the rest of your windows?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:31:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:31:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hm, I might like that then.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:32:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I use it with stalonetray for widgets like krb5-auth-dialog. With a
bit of magic you can make the stalonetray float on top of the xmobar.
I got most of this configuration from ezyang, and tweaked it a bit.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:33:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I bought a Casio F91-W watch recently

Class: geofft Instance: time.d
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:35:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

Did you get it in one of the exciting new colors?
(http://boingboing.net/2012/06/27/terrorist-watch-now-available.html)

Class: geofft Instance: time.d
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:38:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

No, I didn't know those exist.  I went for the classic black.

Class: geofft Instance: time.d
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:42:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

My main complaint is that I keep accidentally bumping the button to
switch it back to 12-hour mode and then I feel like less of a leet
haxor

Class: geofft Instance: time.d
Time: Sun Aug 19 20:49:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

You get used to that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 20 01:48:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So I got home early and am ready to go to sleep, but then I remembered
the bike shop only opens at 10...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 20 01:49:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe I should go to sleep anyway and get some reasonable work done in
the morning

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 20 02:10:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oooh! I could get up in the morning and make leftovers

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:25:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Poe's Law territory:

> ifupdown should be the only way to configure network interfaces. Debian
> should get rid of NM, ifconfig, ip, and all the other heretic programs
> that break ifupdown.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:26:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Clearly sarcasn:

> Unfortunately they are needed by ifupdown itself.  So instead we need
> to have a mechanism in the kernel to refuse network configuration
> that's not done by a child process of ifupdown.  Then you will have
> to put all network configuration in ifupdown hook scripts.  Routing
> daemons will not be supported, but they only cause confusion anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:26:34 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I bet someone will take that seriously, which is why we can't have
nice things.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:27:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Note that's pretty easy with file capabilities.)

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:27:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Ugh, fscaps

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:46:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Reading through Wheelock's, because, hey, why not.) Ugh, all the
pronunciations I have internalized in my head are Ecclesiastical.

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:48:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is not surprising, it just is taking me a bit to remember that
e.g. in this context "magna" is "mag-na", not "manya"

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:48:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... "oe" is weird

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:48:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: @<We are real and not symbols. (Contact, IAP2013. Quoting Carl Jung.)> <xavid>

Taking Latin in school makes singing songs in Church Latin confusing.

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:49:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess "coeli" is pronounced "coyly", not "chelly"? weird

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 12:57:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... oh right "ti" is just "ti", not "tsi"

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:09:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's the month of July. <anusinha>

Are you reading anything in particular?

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:14:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just a textbook.

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:17:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

It's OK. Eventually ifupdown will be deprecated in favor of NM

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:17:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yay!

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:17:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I actually have moderately high confidence this will happen by, say,
the next LTS

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:18:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"can we have that in jessie"

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:19:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Isn't replacing ifupdown with NM merely moving all the problems up one
layer in abstraction, not actually fixing anything?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:20:06 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Or is nmcli now actually useful in, say, single user mode?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:21:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It can eventually be. It's useful enough to me already, provided dbus
and NM are running

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:21:40 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

No, ifupdown makes it difficult to do anything non-trivial because it's
not a daemon and therefore can't react to the vast majority of state
changes

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:22:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

NM is a replacement for ifupdown. It still drives wpa_supplicant,
dhclient, ip, etc. underneath

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:23:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I wonder if what I want is a new "single user mode but with all the
core services needed in order to make things actually work".  

"Maybe this is what runlevel 2 is for"

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:23:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

how the heck did 'ti' become 'tsi'?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:24:29 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

As long as there's a non-shitty way to do NM stuff from the command
line, I think I'm ok with this.  What I don't want is the RHEL
solution, which is "haha, you don't get to configure network from a
TTY"

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:24:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I only have classical Latin, from my year of it in college, so
ecclesiastical latin pronunciation is utterly baffling to me)

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:25:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: STEBBING (n.) The erection you cannot conceal because you're not wearing a jacket. <ahailes>

Italian, I assume

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:26:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The same way/reason "ti" is often pronounced "sh" in English

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:28:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I think I have a new ambition in life: to have a Sexual Proposal named after me. -afarrell <ismith>

Is ecclesiastical latin the same as neolatin?

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:28:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If your definition of "neo" goes as far back as Palestrina, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: latin
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:29:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The glass is half^W^W^W^WI want a refill. -wings <ismith>

Not my definition.  This is actually a thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolatin

Class: geofft Instance: advertisement.q
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:56:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Visit our gayborhood! San Francisco's historic Castro"

Class: geofft Instance: advertisement.q
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:57:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: -- <ekate>

hah, that ad was like the first thing we saw when we got into SF off
the BaRT

Class: geofft Instance: advertisement.q
Time: Mon Aug 20 13:57:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: But I'm quite happy at MIT and not being stabbed in the face with laser acid banana shark bullets. -jasminef <ismith>

Welcome!

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:46:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's confusing that there's a table here with a Google tablecloth/sign
because Google owns Zagat

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:46:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

man, Google owns everyone

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:46:41 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Wait, really?  When did that happen?

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do not stare into beam <yoz>

What's at the Westfield?
By the way, Google had a Zagat booth at the Street Food Festival on
Saturday, with Google schwag.

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:49:32 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Google... owns... zagat....????

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:49:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: because it's burning through the bloodline <lizdenys>

at least the guy who owns zagat works for google?

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:50:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: FULKING (participial vb.) Pretending not to be in when the carol-singers come round. <ahailes>

ohhhh, that explains why you need a g+ account to sign up for a Zagat account

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:50:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Please keep it stored away from heat, odour, damp and sunlight <yoz>

Hey guys, it's almost been a year...
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/google-just-got-zagat-rated.html

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:50:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

You can tell that Google owns Zagat because random things in Google
search results have a score out of 30.

Class: geofft Instance: westfield
Time: Mon Aug 20 14:52:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

(In fact, even though my eyes filter out everything but the link and
the snippet, a modern Google search result looks pretty Cuil!
http://i.imgur.com/BNqrC.png)

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:32:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

some mom on caltrain is teaching her toddler vocabulary by pointing to
the stickers on my laptop (like the ThinkGeek monkey)

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:34:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Was it "Fedora" or "hat"?

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:34:31 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "nerd"

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:35:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't have a hat-shaped sticker, just the "I am Fedora" speech
bubble

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:36:01 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is the "I" the Iomega "[i]"?

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:36:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

no?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:36:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

!!!! There's a pre-boot debug thing?

Class: geofft Instance: aww
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:36:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_drive#Zip_Disk_stickers

"Of course there's a Wikipedia article on them"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 15:38:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Besides the uefi shell?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:17:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There appears to be something like an officially-specified debugging
stub

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:35:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

argh ioctls

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:45:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, Bay Area Linux User's Group is tomorrow. I should make sure to
leave work early...

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:46:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

No, way, is their mascot a sturgeon?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:48:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do I care? I think no.

WHere is it?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:49:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

SF, 6:30, at a place called Four Seas Restaurant (731 Grant Ave)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:49:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.balug.org/

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:50:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Misreadable as balrog...

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:51:00 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:51:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ooh
http://linuxmafia.com/bale/

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 16:51:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You mean we will *lyse* and then *fractionate* the radios. -kdrinkwa <ismith>

i,i Baby balug-org, oh baby balug-org

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:02:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Like... what do you do at these meetings?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:02:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Have dinner and talk about Linux?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:03:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Allegedly BALUG often has presentations.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:03:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Is it really complex stuff? Or is it beginner-friendly?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:04:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> Have dinner and talk about Linux?
So, basically, it's like a MARY'S MOB for PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE MIT
COMMUNITY.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:04:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

++++++++++++++++++

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:04:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Say, it's Not Tuesday, right?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:05:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The problem with MARY'S MOB is that eventually you run out of othe
people's PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE MIT COMMUNITY.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:05:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

s/othe/other/

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:05:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

> Say, it's Not Tuesday, right?

It is indeed.  
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:05:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Long Tuesday was last week, right?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:06:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You are^Whave a Droid, right? -pbaranay <ismith>

dwilson: the same thing we do every night?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

ismith:  depends on how much of a Mary's addict you are, I suppose.  I
haven't actually been there in a while.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Um... *cough I had a question cough*

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Do you?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If people are suggesting Mary's after the meeting tonight, I would be
up for that.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

LUGs tend to be beginner-friendly

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:07:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oki, thanks. Now to find out if there's anything I can eat at this
place...

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:08:05 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

I will need to eat before the meeting, I think.
But I also have a full schedule for the night and possibly should not
be going to Mary's.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:08:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I could also do before.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:08:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

Can someone confirm that the Week of Tuesdays is over?  I know it was
recent...
I'd be up for pre-meeting Mary's

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:09:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think these sorts of things are social events more than anything.
Presentations are probably closer to "let me demo this Linux distro
you've never heard of" than "race conditions in the implemetation of
RCU on multicore ARM systems where one processor is in Thumb mode" or
whatever

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:09:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

dwilson: I believe The week of Tuesdays ended last Tuesday.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:09:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Girls Trade <kchen>

/mit/zlogs/help-by-instance/marys

Auth: yes  Time: Thu Aug  2 18:30:20 2012 Host: PONY.MIT.EDU
From: Hank for Senate! <amb>

Which week is the week of Tuesdays this year?

Auth: yes  Time: Thu Aug  2 18:30:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

> Mary Chung's will be closed from August 7 through August 14 for
vacation.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:09:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: where'd my life goal list go i want to put the dalek thing down... -wings <ismith>

geofft, I can't tell if that sentence is a real thing or not.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:10:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

I would not be surprised if it's a real thing.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:10:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I just made it up, but ==oremanj

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:10:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hot tea is not a sexual partner. -clyde <ismith>

oremanj: ==, also Poe's Law.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: everyone ends up in the Bay Area in steady state, and the transients are boring -geofft <ismith>

Is "Thumb mode" a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:10:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Yep.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:11:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ARM is a beautiful architecture that's very much like an awesomer
version of the 6.004 Beta. One characteristic it shares is that all
instructions are exactly 32 bits long. On certain embedded platforms,
you don't actually have enough ROM space for that, and you get
annoyed, so Thumb is a 16-bit instruction encoding that's way less
beautiful.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:12:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(And apparently even on less-horribly-constrained platforms, you get
better performance from the instruction cache if each is half as long
or something?)

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:12:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"Everything is conditionalizable" is my favorite architecture feature
ever.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:12:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> "race conditions in the implemetation of RCU on multicore ARM systems
> where one processor is in Thumb mode" or whatever

Aww, that sounds like fun.

Well, actually, it sounds a little too obscure, but "race conditions
in the implementation of RCU on amd64" sounds great.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Should those of us in cambridge perhaps take this to, say, -c sipb -i
marys?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Actually, wait, is the Beta always 16-bit? am I misremembering?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

The Beta is 32-bit.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:17 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

32-bit everywhere

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What... does it do with all those bits?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

If you don't have an immediate, a lot of them are just unused.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:13:42 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe (Colosimo) <colosimo>

"Provide enough space to change up the lab to prevent cheating."

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:14:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

It's 3x 5-bit registers plus a 6-bit opcode, IIRC.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Maybe just a 5-bit opcode.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:14:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ah. So it _could_ include a shifter or condition (... or both)

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:14:47 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: ) Joe Colosimo ( <colosimo>

2 formats:
[op][reg][reg][16-bit literal]
[op][reg][reg][reg][bluhhh]

ops are 6 bits, regs are 5

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:15:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is bluhhh guaranteed to be zero?

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:15:25 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

I don't think anything in the system cares.

Class: geofft Instance: linuxq
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:25:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

#ifdef __sparc__
        /* SunOS compatibility item. */
        if (O_NONBLOCK != O_NDELAY)
                flag |= O_NDELAY;
#endif

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.tech.support.q
Time: Mon Aug 20 17:29:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hello George,

Good evening!!!

I am sorry for the delay in response.

I was not able to see the issue in house.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:33:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I think this spec is longer than _War and Peace_

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:34:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Just drink more gin, and you'll feel better.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:34:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Not wodka?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:35:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

wot?

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:35:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/816765303/dripd-coffee-a-mobile-artisan-coffee-bar

... someone wants to make a coffee bar in SF that uses raw milk

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:35:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

gah

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why is there a w there?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Hmm, www.uefi.org/specs/download/2_3_1_ErrataC.pdf is 2224 pages.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: so apparently neurons work like neural nets from 6.034 -afarrell <ismith>

" in addition to the best local coffee, local organic [pasteurized]
whole milk"

*snerk*

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The fact that that even needs to be specified is kinda terrifying.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's a *reason* we pasteurize milk.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

christ on a fucking bicycle, batman

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> High-temp pasteurization heats milk at 161°F for 15-20 seconds, and
> ultra high-temp pasteurization heats milk to 275°F for at least 1
> second. When I steam milk for espresso-based drinks, it doesn't come
> close to temps like this. I believe that much of what's living is
> still in tact.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: But officer, the new laws didn't say anything about zephyring and driving! -wings <ismith>

I'm more amused that he's saying "raw - and also not-raw!".

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They do offer pasteurized milk if you want it, but that's not the
focus.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:36:58 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I'm pretty sure that's true. You don't steam milk above 150 or so

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:37:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

MUCH OF WHAT'S LIVING IS STILL INTACT

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:37:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:37:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: so apparently neurons work like neural nets from 6.034 -afarrell <ismith>

It's like a COFFEE SHOP for WHAT'S LIVING

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:37:41 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

That sounds like something you'd say while exploring ruins of a
post-apocalyptic planet. Not when you're making coffee.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH CTHOFFEE R'WMILK WGAH'NAGL FHTAGN

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ceci n'est pas une bung. <ageng>

I was going to say dripd sounds like a DAEMON for LEAKY FAUCETS.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well, I got him in the shoe box. I guess all we can do is keep him warm and safe. <mherdeg>

Haha, "Mr. Spock, send down a representative from the science team,
something what was once living is still intact."

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

So, if you're all pro-raw, why are you roasting coffee beans?

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I can picture kdrinkwa on pbear's left shoulder and [ismith] in snark devil gear on his right. <ismith>

> R'WMILK

++

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

A Cthulhu-themed coffee bar named Cthoffee would have my custom.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:38:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

==htns

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... okay, should I start a Kickstarter for this?

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All their magic kingdoms are burning. <mherdeg>

Hahaha, yeah, if you're pro-raw why are you even taking the coffee
beans out of their healthy, natural red berry casings? 

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would drink an Elder Latte.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Enh, I think I'd prefer a Nyarlathotea.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: To Scientology: you can keep Tom Cruise, but please give Will Smith back <mherdeg>

"Espresso with three tentacles, please."

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:39:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Necrocofficon" too obvious a name?

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:40:01 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I hate you all.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:40:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Or "Necronomicoffee"?

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:40:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Reminds me of Nova Express:
http://laist.com/2008/03/02/nova_express_closing.php

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:40:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And I still want to start a restaurant named Gyro Protagonist

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:41:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

boooooooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:41:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

The Cafe of Cthulhu

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:41:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

htns++

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:41:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Wow, that's kind of vanilla. There's a "The Lovecraft" in Portland.

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:43:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Proving again that Portland is a parody-operator fixed point.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:45:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Hm, saving the .pdf to .txt in Adobe and then wc'ing the output file
suggests about 271k words in the spec, versus about 450-600k words in
War and Peace / the translation.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:45:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER. <mherdeg>

Of course, if you skip a paragraph of War and Peace, your laptop will
still boot.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:46:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Bah. Stop getting in the way of my point. -geofft <ismith>

initrd=/spark/notes/initrd.img

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:47:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

depending on the UEFI paragraph, it might cause your system to boot!

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:47:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(secure boot)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 18:53:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if I want work to get a copy of _The Linux Programming
Interface_.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:14:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyone know off the top of my head if there's a command or message or
something to force a window (whose id I have) to be mapped?

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

xdotool windowmap $WINDOW

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:16:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, never heard of xdotool before. Thanks!

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:20:59 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Children are to a peaceful and enjoyable life what the Goths were to Roman social order. <eichin>

xwit is an older version of that, if you don't have xdotool

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:21:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have apt-get install

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:23:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think this may just be "this is a type of request that we didn't
think to check for in our afs_AccessOK check"

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Mon Aug 20 19:24:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:03:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

call me maybe
call me ishmael

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:04:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*heh*

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:04:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Not for use with aquariums and all other water-related products <yoz>

call me shirley

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:23:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Man, when do we get to live in single-signon-ponyland?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:23:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I have an obscure edge case caused by "can log on to BareMetal" and
"can log on to the Windows guest" not being exactly the same thing)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:23:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

A world in which SSO actually works?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Mon Aug 20 20:27:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Vaguely wanted a snack. Found a donut covered in sugar. Now actually
hungry. :(

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:14:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

brains are complicated.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:18:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

gruh. too much to do

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:20:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.gnome.org/

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:20:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That is the _dumbest_ tagline I could come up with for GNOME.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:20:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...did someone replace gnome with reddit, and reddit with gnome?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:21:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Possibly dumber even than, oh, "GNOME: The power of Amiga, the
convenience of Multics" or whatever.

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:21:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... "The web at your fingertips"?

Class: geofft Instance: gnome-identity-crisis
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:22:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's mostly ridiculous because you cannot actually use the web with
Epiphany^WWeb, you need Firefox or Chrome or something

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:33:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"In GNU Parted >=3.0, the parted command-line utility does not
support any filesystem related operation, and most of the FS related
code has been removed from the libparted, leaving only minimal code
required by external applications like gparted. The upstream
recommends using the filesystem specific tools or one of the parted's
GUI wrappers like gparted (which calls these external tools) for
filesystem related operations."

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:36:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

About damn time.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:37:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm tired of parted being snotty at me because its ancient bitrotted
FS implementations don't know how to deal with things on my disk.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:38:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm tired of parted messing with my filesystems when I'm merely trying
to edit partitions!

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:38:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is why I haven't used GPT for years!

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:38:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah screw parted

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:39:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(honestly, i'm sorta surprised you use parted for anything.  a LONG
time ago (i think when I was flirting with EVMS?), i got sick and tired
of tools trying to be Smart, and shooting my foot, so now I use
only fdisk and sfdisk.)

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:39:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

fdisk won't grow or shrink partitions.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:39:59 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

You need parted for stuff bigger than 2TB.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't use parted. I'm just reading up on how people use GPT these
days

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You do use parted. BareMetal's partitioning code is all parted

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

glasgall: copy-paste approach...

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Oh"

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> flirting with EVMS?

I remember EVMS! Moving off EVMS was such a pain, IIRC...

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:40:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

sure it will.  (re grow or shrink).

To grow a partition, you delete the partition then make a new one with
the same starting sector but a different ending one.  then you resize
the fs. 

n.n

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

fdisk is unnecessarily snotty in other ways.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I haven't (yet) touched that code (though I'm about to, which is why
I'm caring), and anything I do myself involves running fdisk or
sfdisk, ==.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

like what?

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Something about units, iirc?

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah, units are a pain. sfdisk is better about this

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

c [ENTER]
u [ENTER]

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:41:26 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I actually think the code can be extended to do GPT without a huge
amount of pain, though I put in some heuristics initially that are
probably worth cutting out

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:42:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Why are you doing GPT, though? For 2T disks? You shouldn't need it for
UEFI

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:42:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

You can use MBR with 2T disks, I think.  You only need GPT for 3T.
(am i wrong?)

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:43:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... pretty sure you need GPT for UEFI

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:43:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You definitely don't. Didn't I do a writeup about this on the wiki? You
just need a UEFI system partition, and there's an MBR type code for
that (0xEF IIRC)

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:43:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think 2TB is the cutoff (or, rather, 2.26TB or so), so if 2.5TB is
a thing that'd be an issue too.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:43:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

You can mark the launcher partition as 0xEF because Linux ignores the
type codes and they're only relevant for the bootloader

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:44:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, yeah, you do claim that on the wiki. I misread that as "you don't
need to be using UEFI to be using GPT"

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:44:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh. I totally saw a contradictory claim a little while ago. I guess
this is easy enough to test

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:44:46 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think I even tested this on one or two machines. I certainly wouldn't
be surprised if there exists broken EFI firmwares that don't support MBR
like the spec says they're supposed to

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:45:04 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

But my conclusion from existing literature was that MBR was your best
bet for a single disk layout that worked on all hardware without
modification

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:46:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Doesn't Apple's EFI refuse to read MBR?

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:47:01 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

geofft doesn't even begin to care what Apple hardware does

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:47:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I thought you typically want to do dual-MBR/GPT, with the MBR exposing
at least whatever you're using as /boot (and not necessarily your
actual data partitions)

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:47:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==glasgall was also in the back of my head, since last time I cared
about GPT, it was on my personal Mac

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:47:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There was a mjg59 blog post about this, which means there's definitely
not enough gin in the world to go into it in detail.

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Fedora recently made all of their media work on Macs. It scares me.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do I need GPT if I want to use all the space on a 3TB disk, or just
if I want to use more than 2TB per partition on a 3TB disk?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think all the space, but I'm not sure

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That doesn't make sense, it can't store offsets above the 2TB boundary
I thought. So only the first 2TB would be usable.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

IIRC CHS addressing including all the stupid tricks doesn't let you
go past 2 TB.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:48:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

(Partitions are given in begin/end addresses, so if one overflows, I'm
pretty sure the otehr would)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:49:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Gah CHS addressing die die die die

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:50:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:50:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Can I use GPT on a >2TB disk for data even with an old BIOS?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:50:57 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I'm... sort of surprised your bios cares about your
partition table.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:51:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It cares about how to find a bootloader.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:51:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Uh....if your bios is old enough to have problems with GPT, it's
probably old enough to have problems with 2TB.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:51:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==kcr. If your first 512 bytes know how to get your system going, you
can partition however you want, or not at all. You can pvcreate
/dev/sda if you really want to.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:52:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

O_o why would you do that

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:52:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Uh....if your bios is old enough to have problems with GPT, it's
> probably old enough to have problems with 2TB.

That's a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:52:20 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

"But don't do that, because it's confusing"

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:52:35 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

haha yes

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

heh, annoyingly enough CHS addressing _STILL LIVES_

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I ran into a bug the other day where android was bitching about not
booting some card, and it's because the CHS addressing was
inconsistent.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"Monsters are real"

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You use your BIOS as a, uh, basic I/O system to read things off the
disk until you have real drivers, so all your bootloader-related code
needs to live in your first 2 TB. (Or 2 GB, or whatever.)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> android

........

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:53:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

> android was bitching about not booting
wat

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:54:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

YEP

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:54:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i donno, MLO, u-boot, one of those braindamanged pieces of the boot
architecture.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:55:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

So you were using something dumb, and not an actual piece of Android
hardware with fastboot et al?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:55:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Uh, before you put fastboot on there, you need the OS to work....

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:55:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...fastboot is a bootloader. I don't believe you.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:56:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

fastboot is a second program loader. it runs after the baseband
processor has already done the initial init, started the apps
processor, and run the platform-specific bootloader.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:56:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

As I understand it, and I may be wrong! (in which case educate me, so
I can smak the people involved), fastboot is only used for booting
off of internal MMC/flash.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:57:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I should say "told the apps processor to jump to the
platform-specific bootloader")

Class: geofft Instance: parted
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:57:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh hey. "If the platform includes the ability to boot from a disk
device ... partition support for MBR, GPT, and El Torito must be
implemented."

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:58:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

glasgall: as I understand it, fastboot is the first bit of
user-modifiable code that normally runs on the phone. "It's the thing
that I get when I say adb reboot bootloader"

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:58:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I learned more about modern smartphone architecture than I ever wanted
to two years ago, and not all of the nightmares have gone away yet.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:58:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Right.   I think we were using MLO and u-boot for booting off sdcard.
I don't think fastboot would have worked in that case.  Am I wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:59:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes, but a surprisingly large amount of stuff happens before fastboot
runs.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:59:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But the same stuff would happen before uBoot, if it were uBoot.
fustflum: My claim is that if your android device has uBoot and not
fastboot it's as shitty device.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 21:59:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

No, it has both.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:00:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Now I'm scared.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:00:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You're saying the primary/platform bootloader runs uBoot instead of
fastboot. Which I can actually believe.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:01:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

MLO/u-boot are for booting off of sdcard, before we got eMMC working
in the kernel.  Now that eMMC is (kinda) working in the kernel, it
loads with fastboot.  But we still do diagnostic with sdcard booting,
because it's quicker to swap out an sdcard than hook up a device and
flash its eMMC.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:01:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Are you developing hardware?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:01:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

In a sense, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:02:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I retract my statement about the hardware being shitty.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:02:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i mean, calm down, it's pre-alpha hardware.  There are 3 working
boards.  in the world.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:04:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So, my BIOS is reasonably liable to not like disks >2TB?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:07:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Joshua, are you guys having another public demo event at some point?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:09:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think pretty much every BIOS for years has been able to support
arbitrarily-large disks, it's just that the BIOS interrupts for
getting things off the disk tend not to let you get past 2 TB (and
years ago, past 2 GB, IIRC). If your bootloader can bootstrap itself
from what's exposed in the BIOS, and usually it can do that within
the first 100 MB or so, then it will use its own driver and ignore
the BIOS interface.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:10:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The BIOS has to maintain the fiction that your computer is still an
IBM PC, even though neither it nor the bootloader nor the eventual OS
believes it anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:11:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

UEFI is an attempt to get everyone to drop the pretense.
Unfortunately, in the process, it may have taught us a thing or two
about why polite fictions exist.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:11:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm not currently planning to use this for OS stuff at all, so it
sounds like I'm probably fine?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:12:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If you're not attempting to boot off the drive, you can use whatever
you want. The BIOS is irrelevant.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:12:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(You can only use BIOS code from real mode, e.g.)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:12:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

("pretty much every BIOS for years" will include one from, like,
5--10 years ago?)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:12:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, I thought everyone knew that already.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:12:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The BIOS only matters for booting. Everything after that is relatively
sane.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:13:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

geofft: But that's why we have the various x86 emulators!

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:13:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(e.g. the one that vbetool uses to run bits of video bios)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:14:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> I think pretty much every BIOS for years has been able to support
> arbitrarily-large disks

To clarify, pretty much every BIOS forever, IIRC, has been able to
access the lower some amount of an arbitrarily-large disk, provided
the bus could support that disk.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:14:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i.e., your disk being large does not prevent you from using the BIOS
interface to access some of it. (Being in protected mode does, though,
and sounds like your real problem. Use your OS's driver and forget
about the BIOS)

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:14:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I try to know as little as I can about hardware.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:15:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

So a big disk should be fine. Yay.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:15:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Why do you try to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:15:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: UEFI is an attempt to start a polite fiction that any
hardware manufacturer wants their machine to follow the UEFI spec
faithfully

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:15:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's a more complicated fiction, and harder to maintain.

Class: geofft Instance: parted.d
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:16:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I like this metaphor.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:33:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, probably dinner-and-home time

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:44:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Tripped over an exercise ball while trying to get out of my cubicle

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:44:15 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J(oe) Colosimo <colosimo>

#csjobworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:44:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ended up kicking over a monitor that was on the floor

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:44:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

that.... sounds like something I would do and then find hilarious.

Class: geofft Instance: ow
Time: Mon Aug 20 22:44:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"fortunately it was on the floor because it was already broken"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:27:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aww, EFI_RAISE_TPL and EFI_RESTORE_TPL are about a task priority
level, not about a temple. I was all excited about the history of
Jerusalem

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:27:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:28:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

:D

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:28:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:28:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

++

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:29:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

well, EFI is the future, so there's got to be a EFI_BUILD_TPL3

Class: geofft Instance: tangentially
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:29:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Sometime, can we have Geofft rambles about theology hour
on zephyr?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:29:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

RAISE_TPL souns buildy enough for me.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:29:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Next year in protected mode.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:29:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ahahahahahahahah

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:35:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder how hard it would be to port a Python interpreter to the
preboot environment.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:36:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

why python?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:36:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

rather than lua?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:36:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't know Lua at all

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:37:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

lua isn't particularly innovative, but it is smaller and faster than
python. 

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:37:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Python seems vaguely more in the spirit of ROM BASIC

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

lua is also 1-indexed

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...that is a misfeature.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

"Next you're going to tell me you don't like Fortran!"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea I know

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

"How'd you guess?"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:38:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, that confused me last time I interacted with it

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:39:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'll note that we might be the only people in the world building
grub-efi with the Lua patchset. (So "why not" is partly "because I
have it already")

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:41:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also! Apparently UEFI has TSRs.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:49:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I think some Intel guys already did a port of python to uefi, didn't
they? Or was that a port of python to bios?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:52:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Regardless, boot services seem featureful enough to make a python port
not even a crazy idea, just probably a bad one.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:55:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"why not just port forth?" 

*snicker*

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Mon Aug 20 23:59:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"only the dead know forth"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:02:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Only half a cup?  -- Love the caffeine, it's the taste I can do without. <eichin>

... I interviewed someone who used to work on
ethernet drivers for openfirmware, at sun (so exactly that: bare machine
programming in forth.)  Unfortunately it was about 10 years after
doing that work, and apparently it left him unable to really
comprehend basic modern computing...  so don't go there :}

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:02:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*haha*

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:03:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

one of these days I want to learn the quaint obscure languages that other
nerds talk about, my list is forth, hypercard, and smalltalk.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:04:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: goodbye princeton... goodbye cern... he's going to texas... to watch the holy fire burn! <eichin>

you don't really *learn* forth.  You just write one from scratch when you need it :-)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:04:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

half the learning curve is just getting over how little there actually
is to it.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:05:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(the other half is making it do anything useful)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:05:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

my favourite language is C, so maybe I would enjoy it...

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:05:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I programmed my Lego Mindstorms RCX in Forth once...confused the crap
out of me... I was like...11?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:05:41 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Be Seeing You... <eichin>

I have fond memories of
http://www.amazon.com/Threaded-Interpretive-Languages-Design-Implementation/dp/007038360X/
but updating it to a machine language that you can actually still get
ahold of might be work :)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:06:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

google "jonesforth" to find a well-commented tutorial-type
implementation.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:06:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(for x86)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:06:27 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's for the Internet. It's an Engineering Task. Let's use some Force. -- Simon Spero <eichin>

if you just want the cultural bits, look up colorforth :)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:07:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's Armoured Fighting Vehicle Retrofit Systems) <eichin>

(taking the whole "everything else is crap" approach
to an extreme: basically a bootable LSI design system, forth all the
way down :-)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:22:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Regardless, boot services seem featureful enough to make a python
> port not even a crazy idea, just probably a bad one.

That's the inspiration, really. Writing things that use boot services
in C looks vaguely annoying, and a C++ layer doesn't seem nearly
Awesome enough

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:23:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And you can get an interesting interactive prompt to play around with
them.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:23:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> quaint obscure languages that other nerds talk about

Haskell. (Or Erlang, if you're going for quaint over talked-about.)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:25:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Erlang! I use Erlang software.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:25:27 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I don't understand why Joshua hasn't learned haskell yet.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:26:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(AFAICT/AIUI, there's one piece of software people use, plus an
industry, that's written in Erlang...)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 00:28:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What do you use in Erlang?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 03:32:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I learned Erlang, actually >.> <.<

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 03:32:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I never learned haskell, because I never had a problem that I wanted
to solve, for which I looked at the problem and thought I KNOW!  I
NEED @b{HASKELL}!

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 03:48:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: MESSIAH HALL SHALL SAVE US -pbaranay <ismith>

... and you had that experiece with Erlang?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 03:56:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I have a friend (physics grad student at UCLA) who uses Erlang for his
experiment. Apparently they write all the control and data acquisition
software in Erlang, or something

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Tue Aug 21 05:48:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

major ++ for the CTHOFFEE discussion

Class: geofft Instance: kickstarter
Time: Tue Aug 21 05:49:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

++ gyro protagonist

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 10:54:20 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

(stark)

You have a problem, so you learn Haskell. Now you have a monoid in the
category of problems.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Tue Aug 21 11:21:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

geofft / uefi / fustflum  2012-08-21 00:32  (Joshua Pollack)
    I never learned haskell, because I never had a problem that I wanted
    to solve, for which I looked at the problem and thought I KNOW!  I
    NEED HASKELL!
debathena /  / andersk  2012-08-21 00:32  (Anders Kaseorg)
    Cool.  Do you think Debathena got you into that state?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:13:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

7.2.3 Hardware Error Record Persistence

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:13:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There you have it, guys, HERP is an official part of this
specification.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:14:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Tell me there's a specific subsection on Disk Error Record
Persistence.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:16:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Doesn't look like it :(

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:17:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is clearly incumbent upon you to ensure that it does appear in the
next version of the spec.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:19:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ugh. struct EFI_TIME has year, month, day, hour, minute, second,
nanosecond, timezone, and "daylight" (whatever that is) members

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:20:32 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

daylight-savings-time-p, or something, I bet. Not that that actually
really makes sense.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:21:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's a bitfield. Bit 0 is "does DST exist" and bit 1 is "are we using
it"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:22:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, it specifies that if the time zone isn't set, thatthe value is
to be interpreted as local time

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:22:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hope Linux disregards that...

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:27:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Blame Windows there.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:36:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

They still haven't fixed that nonsense?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:41:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Blame Windows there.

That's, uh, true for the entire spec, right?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:41:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

All the cert structs start with WIN_, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 12:44:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I thought the rest is blaming Itanium?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 13:11:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There is way too much Itanium in this spec, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 13:11:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

also, Jared, they seem to call it PXE...

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 13:13:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

huh

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Tue Aug 21 13:13:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Maybe this "It's not PXE, it's UEFI network boot" campaign is a newish
thing, then. *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 21 13:44:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Unbuffered entity enclosing request can not be repeated."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.eula.q
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:03:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Licensee will not, and will not permit any third party to,
sublicense, rent, copy, modify, create derivative works of, translate,
reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or otherwise reduce to human
perceivable form..."

Class: geofft Instance: vmware.eula.q
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:03:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i,i hey, quit perceiving my hypervisor

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:11:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Starking,
> Why don't you have an xmobar?
Never bothered to set it up. It looked complicated. Maybe I should?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:11:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> You can even use gnome-panel with xmonad if you like.

I did this in dwm years ago

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:12:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> DO you not carry a cell phone that double as a pocket watch?

Yeah, but it's not in front of me all the time, which is why I want a
wristwatch. Also it tends to run out of batery at the end of the day

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:13:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Do I want xmobar or dzen2?

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:15:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Longwood Medical Area. <stum>

get a watch. i have something that is basically this
http://amzn.com/B000AYTYLW
and have worn it ~continuously since early 2007. i changed the watch
band this year, and that's the only maintenance i've ever done on it.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:15:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, I do want a watch too.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:15:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But that involves, like, going to the store.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:15:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: St. Paul Street. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

(i say basically because i'm not sure exactly which model it is, and
timex probably doesn't even make this exact model)

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:16:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: South Street. <stum>

oh right, you don't believe in the future (AKA Amazon Prime)

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:16:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't like that future because I don't like buying things I can't
see.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:16:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That's why you go to a store, browse, and then order it online. I hear
you even have an iPad.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:17:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, and that involves going to the store.

Class: geofft Instance: time
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:17:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Prudential. The destination of this train is: Heath Street/VA Medical Center. <stum>

if you've seen me ... ever, you've seen this watch.
"because i'm sure you always pay attention to people's wrists.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:18:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wrrrrrgh

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:22:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:22:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think your multimonitor handling got _worse_

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:30:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:31:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So when I switch to multimonitor mode, the second display shows a
blank screen. If I click and drag boxes on the Windows desktop,
though, the desktop background shows up, and stays there. So I can,
like, paint things on the desktop by dragging boxes

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:31:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is really quality software

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 14:32:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aaaand SIGABRT.

Class: geofft Instance: jdreed
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:03:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

HULK SQUASH NFS USER ID

Class: geofft Instance: jdreed
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:03:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You are now nobody. Puny nobody.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:11:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I really love how I have a reproducible abort in VMware!

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:17:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... wait, what, did it just abort again?

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:18:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if I have two reproducible aborts in this so-called
hypervisor!

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:26:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/

Ooh, offsite backups at $0.01/GB-month

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:26:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if this will end up cutting Tarsnap's costs (which are
currently $0.30/GB-month)

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:28:47 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Iiiiinteresting

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:28:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Those are super awesome prices.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:29:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Especially the "All data transfer in $0.000/GB".

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:29:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You can pull 5% of your data out per month for free, otherwise you're
charged, I think, 1c/GB.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:29:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

And restores cost ~$.10/GB.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:30:18 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

$120/TB*year still seems high to me---that's only competitive with
disks and engineers, not wildly better.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:30:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

geofft: You have to pay for the network use to restore data, in
addition to the 1c/GB for restores over 5%.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:30:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, yeah, I see. Slightly confusing, sure

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:31:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

brians: But it scales down, which means that I can back up everything
I personally care about for under a dollar a month

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:31:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And it has a lower failure rate than me personally buying disks (or
personally spending engineer time)

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:32:06 2012 Host: teleri.evenmere.org
From: Brian Sniffen <brians>

What you care about is much less than 1 TB?  Really?

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:32:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not sure I even have 1 TB of data I don't care about.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:33:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My work desktop's hard drive is 110 GB, and most of that is separate
svn checkouts of the same thing, and so can dedup. My personal
laptop's is 60 GB, split into two OSes. My previous personal laptop
was a 4 GB netbook. My previous previous personal laptop was
effectively an 8 GB thumbdrive. My total AFS space is some 30 GB.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:34:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Even without spending any effort on dedup or deleting obvious trash
or copies of source code that exists elsewhere or whatnot, let alone
things that are unique but I don't care to keep, I have like 200 GB
of data.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:35:05 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

200gb? shit my media collection is like 10 times that

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:35:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Including free space

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:35:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't really do media collections.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:35:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

For me, /media/archive is a 2TB disk with 700GB used...

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:35:51 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

books, magazines, movies, tv, audio. i think it will hit 2tb this week

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:36:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I really don't do movies or TV, legal or not, online or not.

Class: geofft Instance: aws
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:36:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, I'm not sure why you should care about backing that up
instead of re-fetching it from the original source. Or keeping it
around once you've watched it.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:40:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

DAMMIT VMWARE YOU PIECE OF CRAP STOP HAVING BUGS THAT ARE PREVENTING
ME FROM REPRODUCING THE BUGS I'M TRYING TO REPRODUCE

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:41:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NOT SURE IF BUG IS FIXED

OR JUST MASKED BY OTHER BUG

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Tue Aug 21 15:44:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, I think the bug _is_ fixed. Shocking.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 17:22:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh interesting, there's a thing called xmonad-light that uses an
xmonad.conf file and thereby avoids needing a compiler.

http://braincrater.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/xmonad-light-08-released/

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 18:03:18 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Interesting. How's that work?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 18:03:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It offers you a limited set of configuration options, and embeds a
parser

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 18:08:13 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 18:25:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

See also Bluetile.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 21 19:31:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyone on this coast have an iOS 5.0 (exactly) device? I want to test
something...

Class: geofft Instance: self
Time: Tue Aug 21 19:43:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay why am I hungry

Class: geofft Instance: self
Time: Tue Aug 21 19:43:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> food, caffeine, sugar, etc. I'm not being productive here

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:08:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The Midway is next week?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:08:44 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:08:52 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

~10 days.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:08:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

weird

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:09:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:10:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Time flies when you're having fun (where by "having fun" I mean "not a
student")

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:13:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

So, going to BALUG?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Tue Aug 21 20:15:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Nope, too busy at work, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:50:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:50:57 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

wat?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:51:35 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

hwæt?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:52:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

James Watt?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:53:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

what are we watting at

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:53:56 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

that was my wat!

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:54:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm confused why there's a research scientist in Lab for Manufacturing
and Productivity who's establishing an "Advanced Cyber Security
Center"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:54:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Also why that's abbreviated ACSS)

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:55:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... he's teaching an applied cyber security course?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:55:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Who is this guy?
http://www.mit.edu/~doval/bio2.html

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:56:03 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

yeah also there's a group at Linoln that has already been doing this

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:56:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like none of his publications are with any CSAIL-or-so names I
recognize

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:57:46 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

not that there can't be many researchers doing the same thing just
that I'm surprised that he's not collaborating with the other MIT
entity doing the same thing

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:57:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:58:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"Advanced Cyber Security" also known as "I can haz DARPA
monies pleaz?"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:59:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I was thinking the PDOS etc. systems security folks, but LL works
too. (And they talk to each other anyway)

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Tue Aug 21 21:59:45 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

well it's hard to get the really fun money if you're not U.S. citizens

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:01:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ohhh, right, that's how Haskell works.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:01:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I was confused why
main = xmonad =<< xmobar myConfig
works (and is documented), but I was getting ~syntax errors on
main = xmonad =<< xmobar $ defaultConfig {...}

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:03:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That comes down to the declared precedence of =<< and $, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:03:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway I got confused, imported Control.Monad, and went with <=<

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

haskell still likes like noise to me, no matter how much I try to
learn it.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

<=< definitely looks like a smiley of some sort.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

<_< >_>

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==achernya
My reaction to "<=<" was "now you're just making stuff up"

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:04:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I understood Haskell really well when I was ~full-time writing in it.
I've forgotten it again, but I think I'm back to the point where I can
learn it again in hours instead of days now

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:05:26 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Infix operators with configurable precedence still seem
like a bad idea.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:06:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> forcing myself to go home. "I do have a VPN"

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:06:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, Haskell loves its infix operators.  OTOH, they're mostly
well-behaved entities which you can hide, qualify, and look up the
code for, unlike say Perl.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:07:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I didn't actually know <=<, I just hoogled it (I knew I wanted (a ->
m b) -> (b -> m c) -> (a -> m c))

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:07:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apparently it's "left-to-right Kleisli composition of monads", which,
uh, I'm happier writing >=> frankly.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:07:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't even know what that means anymore. I feel like I did once.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:08:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I've got two monadic functions and want to compose them.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:08:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I could also have done this with
main = do
       foo <- xmobar defaultConfig { ...}
       xmonad foo
I think.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:08:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What's weirder is that you can write

    f x { ... }

and that means the same as

    f (x { ... })

Record update binds tighter than function application.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:09:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is why, if I had gotten my precedences/parens right, I could
have just done this with the perfectly normal >>= operator.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:09:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

aha! ==htns, that _is_ weird.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:09:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Since thing1 >>= thing2 is just
do temp <- thing1
   thing2 temp

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:10:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"don't you mean 'flip just'"

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:10:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... maybe

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:10:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I already have a headache from caffeine withdrawal, I don't need one
from Haskell right now"

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:11:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, three monoids in the category of endofunctors later, I have a
clock in the corner of my screen

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:12:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hoogled?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:12:56 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's what it sounds like, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:12:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

http://www.haskell.org/hoogle/

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:13:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The whole hoogle phenomenon is remarkably similar to this
terrible idea the IBM group building a streambase
competitor had, where you could get a bit of code to map
from type A to type B out of the repository, so that DTRT
would happen. THough in Haskell's case many of the cases
where this happens are very simple.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 21 22:13:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.haskell.org/hoogle/?hoogle=%28a+-%3E+m+b%29+-%3E+%28b+-%3E+m+c%29+-%3E+%28a+-%3E+m+c%29

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 22 02:27:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If "close(2);" fails, where should I report the error?

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 22 02:27:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

SIGABRT

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 22 02:28:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe I should use dup2(fd, 2), which is... in theory? atomic?

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Wed Aug 22 02:28:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Or better yet stop sketching on stderr and just write to my file
descriptor manually.

Class: geofft Instance: argh
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:22:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I _really_ want mosh vpnc edition

Class: geofft Instance: phishing.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:32:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

From: Apple <appleid@id.apple.com.akadns.net>
To: geofft@ldpreload.com
Subject: Your Apple ID password has been reset

Dear Customer,
The password for your Apple ID geofft@ldpreload.com has been
successfully reset.
If you believe you have received this email in error, or that an
unauthorized person has accessed your account, please go to
iforgot.apple.com [mittereau-psychotherapeute-biodynamique.com] to
reset your password immediately. Then review and update your security
settings at appleid.apple.com > [fmgdistributors.zymichost.com]
Questions? There are lots of answers on our Apple ID support page >
[airyourjunk.com]

Class: geofft Instance: phishing.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:33:23 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

... air my junk?

Class: geofft Instance: phishing.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:33:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

no no, air _your_ junk, please.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:45:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not sure how I accomplished this, but visiting www.google.com in
my browser yields "Services for this domain have been discontinued."

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:46:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:47:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

dig, quickly!

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:47:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It resolves fine, Firefox just managed to get something bad in its
cache.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:48:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Entering: Northeastern University. No smoking, please. Doors will open on the right. <stum>

shift-F5?

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:49:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Still.

Class: geofft Instance: dns
Time: Wed Aug 22 14:49:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

anyway, it expired, and now https://www.google.com is giving me Google
(since I had the brilliant idea to check the cert to see what I was
really getting)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:49:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I kind of want to do this CTF but I'm hosed :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:50:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Newton Highlands. The destination of this train is: Government Center. <stum>

isn't the benefit of being in the real world that "hosed" is sort of
arbitrary and can wait?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:51:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You live in a different real world than I do...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:52:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Of all the things I was hoping not to have to hate today, grub's
malloc implementation is pretty high on the list. :(

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:53:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My merge window closes... Friday, I think? "I should write the things
I want to get merged" Also customers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:54:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Speaking of customers, apparently I'm meeting in person with a
customer who happens to be here. The "I'm not lazy. I'm
energy efficient." shirt may not have been the best choice

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:57:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I note without comment that it is not Tuesday. -kaduk <ismith>

*grin*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:59:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's not the worst idea to keep an emergency respectable shirt in your
office.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 15:59:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, plausible...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:00:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

This is what sweatshirts are for

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:00:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Just go shirtless

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:00:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't have either of those. Also, it's too warm.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:01:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Oh, right, valley

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:01:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yes!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:01:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Just because Ian's an android doesn't mean he's like Data *all the time* guys -pbaranay <ismith>

Which makes shawests' idea that much better.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:01:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Also your Bare Metal hoodie is at home, sadly

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:01:35 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No, no Johnny -- You got twelve, they got twelve. <eichin>

Atria had a rule (millions of years ago) that "corporate swag is defined to always meet the dress code"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:02:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

In fact, I might recommend showing up entirely naked. It'll be much
cooler that way, and you may even get tipped!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:02:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From:  <cslink>

But where do you put the tip?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:03:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

just move MokaFive to the Castro. Problem solved. 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:04:59 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: nothing broken, nothing thrown <eichin>

(which led to people lobbying the marketing dept to get atria swimsuits made :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:05:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

i,i "then you have two problems"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:05:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

> But where do you put the tip?
It often it depends on the gender and preferences of the parties
involved

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:18:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ugh I suck and do not understand upstart

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:21:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Port to systemd!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:23:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Now you have a partially ordered dependency graph of problems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:26:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I'd rather have a graph of problems than a blob.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:43:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There's a /lib/init/fstab??????

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:43:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

TIL

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:54:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If my reading of the UEFI spec is right:
- El Torito is supported on every device, not just CD-ROMs.
- Your EFI boot partition can be a floppy disk. Or a Zip drive, or
  LS-120.
- You can boot from a tape drive.
The more you know!

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:55:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, hm, where is the nearest El Torito?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:55:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Good thing it's still 1995

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:55:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There is this long section on customers complaining about the
inability to boot from tape

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:55:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Who the hell is still booting on tape?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:56:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Important customers!

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:56:26 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Like, modern complaints, or from like 1999 when EFI was getting
started?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:57:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Are these greybeards who never learned about media other than 9-track
or what?

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 16:59:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Let me just create a boot disk on this TR-1 cartridge.  Ooops, I
overwrote the low-level format."

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:00:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

one sec, lemme download the spec on not my iPad so I can copy and
paste more easily

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:00:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, booting from a Zip drive at least made sense before flash
media was a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:00:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Zip drives were *weird*.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:00:59 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(Ditto for LS-120)

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:01:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(no pun intended)

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:01:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They got treated like hard disks, except their partition tables had
to be set up so that the *fourth* primary partition covered the disk.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:02:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

For teh lulz, Iomega copied that partition table layout to their Clik
drives.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:02:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Which even fewer things used.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:02:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

12.6.1 Tape I/O Support

This section defines the Tape I/O Protocol and standard tape header
format. These enable the support of booting from tape on UEFI
systems. This protocol is used to abstract the tape drive operations
to support applications written to this specification.

Mission-critical server systems provide reliability and availability.
Traditional RISC servers have long supported native tape boot to
perform system recovery tasks. Industry standard servers have not
traditionally provided native tape boot support. Some workarounds
have been provided, e.g., One-button Disaster Recovery (which makes a
tape drive appear as a CD device after a special start-up sequence;
Dual Media support where one boots from CD but recovers from tape;
Hard Drive used for back-up; DVD±RW for backup.

These alternatives have not satisfied customers. They want to migrate
native tape boot support to industry standard servers because most of
them do not staff the technical expertise to perform the human
intervention involved, or, they do not perceive the media as reliable
or having enough capacity.

As a result, high-profile customers base their purchases on the
promise of the native tape boot support.

After considering the existing Disk IO Protocol, GPT Disk and File
System IO Protocol supporting the hard disk boot, it was decided that
the best approach to support the tape boot is to define a new Tape IO
protocol and a standard tape header format to enable tape-based OS
bootloaders to be run using the EFI Load File Protocol.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:03:12 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Do you make these questions up, or do they write them down for you? <eichin>

I got one of those (pcmcia "drive" I think, and
one piece of media) when they were going away.  I wonder if there's
anything current that it would usefully plug into

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:03:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

er, wait, not Clik.  Whatever their "This is sort of a flash drive"
thing was called.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:03:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You could look at old versions of the EFI spec to see when
EFI_TAPE_IO_PROTOCOL was introduced, if you want.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:05:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The mention of DVD\pm RW implies that it's probably disturbingly
recent, though.

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall.d
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:06:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "Missing $ inserted"

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall.d
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:07:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

sorry!

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall.d
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:12:44 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

I parsed that as Haskell at first...

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall.d
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:13:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i,i "Missing (inserted")

Class: geofft Instance: glasgall.d
Time: Wed Aug 22 17:15:35 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I can't look at that and not cringe.

Class: geofft Instance: el-torito
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:04:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So the closest El Torito locations appear to be Burlingame and Foster
City. I guess there's also one in Santa Clara.

Class: geofft Instance: el-torito
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:05:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyone want to go, for the lulz?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:32:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

salmon-of-wisdom:/dev gthomas$ sudo dmsetup remove sde1
semid 1891500034: semop failed for cookie 0xd4df524: incorrect
semaphore state
Failed to set a proper state for notification semaphore identified by
cookie value 223212836 (0xd4df524) to initialize waiting for incoming
notifications.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:32:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Does that mean anything? Like in English?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:34:50 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

These are udev cookies?   And why are you running dmsetup?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:35:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i http://xkcd.com/1084/

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Wed Aug 22 20:37:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> These are udev cookies?

I have no idea

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:07:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

++ re: partially ordered... of problems

Class: geofft Instance: stl.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:09:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

  // Red-black tree class, designed for use in implementing STL
  // associative containers (set, multiset, map, and multimap). The
  // insertion and deletion algorithms are based on those in Cormen,
  // Leiserson, and Rivest, Introduction to Algorithms (MIT Press,
  // 1990), except that
  //
  // (1) the header cell is maintained with links not only to the root
  // but also to the leftmost node of the tree, to enable constant
  // time begin(), and to the rightmost node of the tree, to enable
  // linear time performance when used with the generic set algorithms
  // (set_union, etc.)
  // 
  // (2) when a node being deleted has two children its successor node
  // is relinked into its place, rather than copied, so that the only
  // iterators invalidated are those referring to the deleted node.

:-D

Class: geofft Instance: stl.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:17:40 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I see a red node and i want it painted black,
No children any more, i want it to turn black
I see inserts go by, and without much chagrin

I know that my tree’s max height is bounded O(log n)
I see all my leaf nodes and they’re all painted black
With left, right children nil, a most ingenious hack

All the paths from root to leaf have equinumerous nodes
(To within a factor of 2, but that doesn’t change big-O’s)

Class: geofft Instance: stl.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:18:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: -- <ekate>

*ow* 

Class: geofft Instance: stl.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:18:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: -- <ekate>

(++)

Class: geofft Instance: stl.q
Time: Wed Aug 22 21:22:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 22 22:06:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> Caltrain

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 22 22:52:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You know, if I wanted to take a transit system involving nice seats, a
Bombardier, and _clouds at eye level_, I would have taken a plane

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 22 22:53:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay, we're now below the cloud layer. "yay"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 22 22:56:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Hah.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Wed Aug 22 22:56:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: useless, but decorative <eichin>

i,i "PULL UP   PULL UP"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 23 04:38:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ugh the problem with my new schedule is I have to shower in the
evening :(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 23 04:38:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(instead of going to sleep like I'd like to)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 23 04:39:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, sigh, there's no hot showers tomorrow at work either.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Aug 23 13:46:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Ladies and gentlemen, we have a signaling problem, we're getting red
signals one after another and have to proceed at a slow rate of speed
from one to the next"

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Thu Aug 23 13:46:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We're like 10-15 minutes behind schedule?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:01:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My boss caught 20 lbs of salmon from Alaska and is trying to figure
out what to do with it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:01:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

Feed it to the bears.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katmai_National_Park_and_Preserve

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:01:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"but he brought the salmon back"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:04:22 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Eat it. It's delicious.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:09:16 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A katana might slice a worm in two.
 <rnjacobs>

I'm guessing he wants recipes? Unless he got Pink salmon—and I strongly
suspect he didn't—it's fantastic in any almost any preparation (grilled,
broiled, panfried, raw if safe) as long as you don't try to add extra flavor
to it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 16:09:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

smoke it, give some to me.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:08:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Currently debating what term to use to refer to the non-trackpad
laptop mouse (in an email to a sales guy, not a customer). cf.
http://xkcd.com/243/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:08:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

trackpoint...be safe.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:19 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"pointing stick", if you want to be as  safe as humanly possible.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

TrackPoint(TM)-style pointing device

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Can I go with "disco stick"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

...who calls it that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

no.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Oreman <oremanj>

"disco stick" is at least as bad as "nipple mouse".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:09:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: Lady Gaga

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 20:10:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

It's a part of her song 'Love Game'

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 21:57:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woah, it's 7 PM?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 21:57:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Go home.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 21:57:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I didn't do anything!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 21:57:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess today was full of meetings.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 21:59:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Me neither! I've spent most of the day fighting with VPN, or catching
up on mail...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 23 22:01:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"no it's 10 PM"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Aug 23 22:08:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf Microsoft why are you saying "file is not signed" I'm giving this
file to you _so you can sign it_

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Aug 23 22:08:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like really the worst part of this whole thing is the crappy web
interface.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Aug 23 22:08:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Thu Aug 23 22:13:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay, sigh, I don't actually have our super-awesome $99 cert, so I
can't deal with this now. -> home

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:48:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, "pad" in Thai means "fried". "Pad thai" is "fried Thai-style"
and the "see ew" in "pad see ew" is cognate to "soy".

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:49:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_fried_rice

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:49:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... that sounds delicious.

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:49:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... is that bacon and an omelet?

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:52:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do not tap on the glass <yoz>

The eggs are probably over hard.

Class: geofft Instance: church.mq
Time: Fri Aug 24 17:58:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

>   Men's Breakfast
> Saturday, Sept 29th, 9am

... how about no

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:12:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

On whether the Mission is an actual mission:
"""
It used to be.  Now it's just a neighborhood where you find three
things:
- Latin@s
- MIT alums
- fuckin' hipsters
"""

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:15:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

On Noisebridge, crossing zephyrs:

me: "Think MITERS or maybe SIPB, but a larger community and not tied
to a university and more socially fallacious?"
$other: "Think SIPB+MITERS, but with actual adults."

I see there are some differences of opinion here.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:16:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: COWER IN FEAR, FOLLOWERS OF MAMMON, BEFORE THE GREAT BIRD REBORN AND THE COMBINED MIGHT OF SIPB -geofft <ismith>

(I'm $other)

I was *going* to comment that this depended on your definition of
"adult".

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:16:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They're certainly (on average) older (by a few years).

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:16:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Noisebridge has a Zephyr realm?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:17:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There's an IRC channel and an obnoxious mailing list, which is
basically the same, except with actual protocols and/or more socially
fallacious.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:18:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: My favorite part of functional programming is that it sounds like all other programming is dysfunctional. -geofft <ismith>

See, I still need a definition for "socially fallacious".

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:19:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"too GSF#1 to tell people to get a place to live instead of being
homeless and crashing at Noisebridge"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:19:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

SIPB _jokes_ about problems like that.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:19:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

They think that "Be excellent to each other" is a coherent
code of conduct, rather than a nonsense phrase which can be used by
anyone to justify any policy whatsoever

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:20:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It used to work! *sigh*, as a founding member of Noisebridge

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:21:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I suspect to some extent that these are merely problems of scale.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:21:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Also geofft you should really have brought us coffee by now.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:21:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

sorry!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:21:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I keep forgetting to go by Philz when they're open

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:22:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Noisebridge is still ostensibly governed by consensus, right?  (I seem
to recall the verb "consensing" being used a lot)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:22:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I am so sleepy and all I have is old Cafe Bustelo and I might just go
make some...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:22:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think government by consensus is basically impossible at a certain
scale

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:23:52 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

SIPB used to have a bit more of a problem with less homeful
members.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:24:35 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Government by consensus works better if everyone knows how
it is supposed to work, which is hard if you let random
Americans join.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:24:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah. Noisebridge could add consensus training to the new member
on-ramp. 

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:25:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, that doesn't sound cult-like at *all*

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:25:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What kinds of problems do Noisebridge and SIPB have with people
crashing there, exactly?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:25:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

We had a lot of people unofficially staying in the houses at Caltech,
and relatively few problems

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:28:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> in the houses

Plenty of MIT dorms have that. They're intended as sleeping spaces,
which changes the character, how much respect you should have for
peoplee asleep in the space and how much right they have to be upset
when you don't have that respect, whether they're allowed to keep
things like clothes and stuff, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:28:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(clothes and stuff fit the intended purpose of a sleeping space;
leaving that sort of stuff around, say, SIPB is somewhat abusive of
space that could be used for hacking.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:47:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yay, VMware support got back to me!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:48:13 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Dear Geoffrey,

Thank you for your detailed bug report.  We are sorry that you have
experienced a problem with VMware products, and our support engineers
will get back to you as soon as they can.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:48:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

something like that.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 24 18:54:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25428976.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:37:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Lua looks dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:38:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

afaik what makes Lua special are the implementations, not the language

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:39:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The language also looks special. It reminds me of the dumb parts of
JavaScript

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:40:01 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

i,i javascript: the bad parts

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:40:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"and it's all bad parts"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:40:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:40:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

So what's actually so objectionable about Lua?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:41:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, I've only read section 2.1 so far, but the whole thing looks
objectionable:
http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#2.1

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:41:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

People have all these opinions about Python vs. Ruby vs. Javascript
vs. Lua and it all seems so tiny compared to a world which also
includes C, Haskell, Prolog, and C#

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:42:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

==htns

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:42:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"just as long as it's not VB or COBOL or Fortran"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:42:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't think the Lua language is really much worse than Python

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:42:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It seems like they're all roughly the same, language-wise, and you
should choose based on libraries, implementations, and community

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:43:09 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Lua's reference interpreter, IIRC, has been a JIT for several years now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:43:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

which is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:43:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Lua is I think the only language with semi-competent built-in
sandboxing, which I give it props for.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:43:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also it's apparently really easy to embed into a larger program, which
is what people mainly use it for.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:43:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It can _only_ be embedded into a larger program, it looks like.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's specified in terms of a host C program, and lua(1) is just a
REPL in C

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

geofft: Er, I have a /usr/bin/lua

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Sure, that seems like a clean design to me

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's mostly reasonable, for what it gets used for, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If you're going to have embedding anyway (which Python etc. all do)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:44:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Isn't that how the perl, python, and ruby interpreters all work?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:45:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't know to what degree the CPython /usr/bin/python can be
implemented using the public parts of the libpython API.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:45:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, it does things like "any exception is reported to C, unless you
invoke a function in a nonstandard way saying you want to catch the
exception in Lua"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:45:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It seems like this would be a desirable property

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:45:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which I'm pretty sure Perl/Python/Ruby don't do...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:45:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

price: I didn't know that the main Lua implementation is a JIT.  I
know about LuaJIT which is crazy fast

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:46:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That must be what I was thinking of.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:46:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But it's more widely used than the JITs for Python and Ruby, right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:47:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think so.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:47:39 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The latter are still basically regarded as not yet ready for prime time.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:48:19 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At least in PyPy's case, that's largely because of the C API -- it
doesn't support the whole thing, and what it does support is not entirely
bug-compatible.  To do the whole thing is very difficult without
essentially being a tweak of the same interpreter, because the API is so
big.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:48:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

LuaJIT probably benefitted from Lua's C API being deliberately simple and
well specified.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:49:32 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And Rubinius at least has production users (I think), but I don't yet
know any.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:49:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's odd how most popular dynamic languages seem to be someone's toy
language that escaped...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:50:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm.  Was that true of Perl too?  I don't know the history.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:50:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Python, Ruby, and PHP I see that in.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:50:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Rubinius is ... RbRb?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:50:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:51:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Though it still has a C++ (formerly C) core. iirc the model is the
Smalltalk Blue Book VM.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:51:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

binfmt_efi

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:51:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Don't we already have binfmt_pe?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:52:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(or at least that implemented via binfmt_misc)

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:52:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Do we? Is that for Linux executables in PE format?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:52:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I know there's binfmt_misc for Wine"

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:52:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Wine uses it.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:52:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I thought Wine interprets the PE entirely in userspace, basically like
a script interpreter

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:53:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It was kind of a revelation when I realized that Guido van Rossum
doesn't just dislike functional programming, but believes factually
incorrect things about functional languages:

  http://fold.sigusr2.net/2010/03/guido-on-functional.html

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:53:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's an inverted billiard ball!
 <rnjacobs>

That's what binfmt_misc is a loader for, no?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:53:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:53:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: He is not only dull himself, he is the cause of dullness in others. - Samuel Johnson
 <rnjacobs>

mono support via it, too

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:53:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right. This would be executing EFI binaries directly

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:54:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

binfmt_misc is great!  It's used by Ubuntu's magical QEmu-lated
cross-architecture chroots, too

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:54:41 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, wine doesn't emulate anything. The code in the PE binary's
text section still runs natively, wine just does all the stuff that,
well, ld.so does.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:54:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Unless I misread something major, the EFI ~syscall interface is "call
these C function pointers passed into your startup function via a big
struct", so you could load a userspace library and have the code run
straight on your processor. I guess the Wine approach is probably
slightly easier.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:54:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, okay

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:54:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A glorious fan of peacock feathers.
 <rnjacobs>

... you mean the thing that nokia built for the n800 cross chain?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:55:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Does Wine just install signal handlers for the exception you get when
making Windows syscalls?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:55:51 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Madness lies this way

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:55:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

How many apps make Windows syscalls directly instead of via some
windows library they're linked against?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:56:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They just have to provide the win32 api, not the underlying syscall
convention.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:56:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Really?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:56:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Huh, somehow I'd thought Lua originated as an academic language.
One of the main authors is an academic, but apparently it came from his
non- (pre-?) academic life.
  http://www.lua.org/history.html

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:56:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"lnxboot.img
"This image may be placed at the start of the core image in order
to make GRUB look enough like a Linux kernel that it can be booted by
LILO using an ‘image=’ section."

... why would you want that. ew.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:56:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, the Windows kernel API is not stable/public

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:57:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

htns: Oof, that quote is unfortunate.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:57:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And even on Linux, most things still go through libc instead of doing
their own SYSENTER/SYSCALL/INT80/whatever...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:57:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Not totally surprising, given things I had seen Guido say elsewhere.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:57:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I was talking about what you get with, say

  $ mk-sbuild --arch=armel precise

on an x86 system.  Which is a chroot full of ARM binaries, and a
binfmt_misc handler for ARM ELF which calls qemu-arm, which translates
system calls made by those binaries and executes them on the native
kernel

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think broder told me about this.  It's fucking sweet.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It is insanely cool, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Not just the idea, but that it *actually works* from running just that
one command.  And schroot itself is pretty slick, too

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We like schroot.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We like it a lot.

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:58:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

schroot is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 19:59:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Ha, the leading Amazon review for that book says

Unintentionally hilarious

Most of these "masterminds" come across as rather provincial, making for
an unintentionally hilarious read. Stroustrup can't go much more than a
page without complaining about Java. The creator of basic opines that,
because all languages are basically the same, if you've learned one you
can easily learn any . . . then later talks about how he is trying (and
failing) to learn objective-C. Guido van rossum asserts that you can
define reduce in a couple of lines of python, which you simply cannot do
in a functional language. Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:00:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

How do system calls work in a statically linked Windows executable,
then?  Is there such a thing?

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:00:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Statically linked executables on amd64 Linux will contain SYSCALL
instructions

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:01:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> How many apps make Windows syscalls directly instead of via some
> windows library they're linked against?
> And even on Linux, most things still go through libc instead of
> doing their own SYSENTER/SYSCALL/INT80/whatever...

Yes, but any serious emulation layer for either Windows or Linux will
need to make an attempt to emulate the syscalls (and the vDSO
interface) because you _could_ use them. And also because you might
decide to grab an actual libc (or Windows equivalent thereof)

Class: geofft Instance: bad-ideas
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:01:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> How do system calls work in a statically linked Windows executable,
> then?  Is there such a thing?

I think the answer is no, but I don't remember. I know the answer on
OS X is no.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:04:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, oh, I see -- it was created by a group at a university, but in the
course of their consulting work for industry.  Because apparently they
did that in those days in Brazil.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:05:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I lied, lua(1) isn't a REPL, it's just a REL

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:05:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> 2+2
stdin:1: unexpected symbol near '2'
> print(2+2)
4

That's kind of a pain.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:05:57 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

"You can write reduce() in a few lines of Python. Not so in a functional
language."

O_o

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:06:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://blog.evernote.com/2012/08/24/the-new-evernote-smart-notebook-by-moleskine/

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:06:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

PL designers keep reinventing the same flaws because most of them
don't bother to study what's already out there in any comprehensive
way

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:09:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And the ones who do end up producing extremely avant garde languages
that nobody actually wants to use

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:13:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

This seems like an appropriate place to link
http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:13:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Starking a bit: Python has pretty straightforward pieces to make a REPL.
They're all tied together in a nice bow in the 'code' module in the
stdlib:

$ python -c 'import code; code.interact()'
Python 2.7.3 (default, Aug  1 2012, 05:16:07) 
[GCC 4.6.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
(InteractiveConsole)
>>> 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:14:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And the implementation of the 'code' module is basically the 'compile'
builtin, the 'exec' statement, and a bunch of OO scaffolding to let you
hook its workings in various ways.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:42:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Facebook just announced that Frank Gehry of Gehry Partners, known for
the Bilbao Guggenheim Museum and Los Angeles’ Walt Disney Concert
Hall, will design a new 3,400 employee engineering campus connected to
its current HQ by an underground tunnel."

IT'S A TRAP

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:43:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Please do not turn the page until completion of the piece <yoz>

Dude, they're going to open the tunnel!

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:44:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Will it have a two-story-tall glass sphere?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:44:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Tipping or rocking may cause serious injury or death <yoz>

http://goo.gl/maps/vuFdH if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:45:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do not walk down tracks <yoz>

It will have a concave mirror surface to focus a burning beam of
light at the Googleplex, of course.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:45:56 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I was just ranting to someone how, if I ever was in a position to keep
someone from making the mistake of buying a Gehry building, I would.

Not today.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:48:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

THis is the Stata guy, right?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:48:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yep...

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:49:34 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: An elven cloak is always the height of fashion.
 <rnjacobs>

google.com/images?q=gehry works wonders, but doesn't really illustrate what's
problematic.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:51:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Exposure may cause skin irritation or lung damage <yoz>

Whoa. I didn't know that Gehry described Stata as "a party of drunken
robots got together to celebrate".

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:52:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Does that mean you can kexec grub?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:52:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

GRUB runs in real mode, right? I thought kexec directly finds the
protected-mode entry point

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:54:16 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that kicking a valuable gem doesn't seem to make sense.
 <rnjacobs>

No, grub is pmode

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:54:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that once you've met one wizard you've met them all.
 <rnjacobs>

well, ok, I'm about 90% certain grub is in protected mode

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:55:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess this is easy to figure out

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:56:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apparently yes, but it switches to real mode a bunch to access BIOS
functions or to chainload or whatnot?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:56:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Actually if it's doing lots of disk i/o it's probably using the BIOS calls so
it's probably staying in real mode. Although I remember something weird about
being able to write to above the 1MB barrier ...

which would be consistent with what you just said

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:57:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

unreal mode!

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:57:28 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Look out! Monkeys!
 <rnjacobs>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:57:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm not joking, this is actually a thing.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:58:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Breasts are like martinis -- one is never enough and three's too many - via playboy
 <rnjacobs>

No, I know

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:58:20 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Much ado Nothing Happens.
 <rnjacobs>

I was trying to remember "flat real mode" when I send my 20:56

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:58:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

This stuff is burned into my memory, unfortunately.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 20:59:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We had a TRS-80 Model 100 (80C85), followed by an 8086 luggable and
then a 486 desktop when I was small. I remember more such arcana than
I'd really like.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:00:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Advantages of having a father who's a reporter and files copy from the
road frequently in the Before Time: computers with which to do it.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:00:36 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And all I can think of is pouet.net/prod.php?which=1274

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:00:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I ran MINIX on a 286 laptop in 16-bit protected mode

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:00:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I read Tannenbaum's book on that!

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:01:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I remember vividly how, after a long discussion of memory protection
and virtual memory, when the chapter got to MINIX's implementation, it
was basically "MINIX doesn't do any of this"

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:01:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But I guess that book was written to the lowest common denominator of
the 8086.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:01:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I feel kinda benighted by having had a vic-20 as my only non-x86 machine.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, the TRS-80 was /barely/ not an x86. It was a descendant of the
8080, just like the 8086 and so on.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and so could run 8080 code)

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"x86, but not IBM PC"?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:45 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: And when I see you smile / You can make the darkest day worthwhile - verve pipe
 <rnjacobs>

PC clones, sure.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I've seen, I think, um, two of those?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:02:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It always annoys me when people conflate these two things

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:03:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I saw a SGI x86 Windows NT machine once. And, of course, the OLPC
XO-1.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:03:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(the SGI one was not a PC)

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:04:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: On the Pringles Salt & Vinegar can, the N connector was directly
between Sodium and Protein. - Rob Flickenger
 <rnjacobs>

The SGI x86 and solaris 386 machines were too late and too rare for me to have
encountered them until MIT

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:08:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What was the purpose of the SGI x86 NT machines?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:09:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Good question.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:09:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Graphics workstations for people who want to run NT for some reason?

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:09:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that some shopkeepers recognize gems but they won't tell you.
 <rnjacobs>

And although there were a huge number of embedded x86 machines, we were
talking about personal computers, not embedded things, and I (and I assume
you?) don't think about whether my camera is using ROMDOS-x86 or (canon's ARM
OS) because it's not really hackable the same way.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:09:50 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that using an amulet of change isn't a difficult operation.
 <rnjacobs>

The only SGI x86 machine I'd seen was being used for modelling.

Class: geofft Instance: grub
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:09:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Cameras are plenty hackable :)

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:10:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I mean, that's the entire point of CHDK, but I don't know of anyone who really
made inroads on hacking the older ROMDOS-based ones.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:11:10 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And "hackable" was the wrong word for me to have used, I meant more like "the
hood's already open, take a look"

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:11:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think I have taken the openness of the IBM PC platform for granted
for much of my life

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:12:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I sort of assumed this is how computing technology would always work,
but now I think more future systems will look like smartphones :/

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:13:02 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

==

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:14:07 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: It's not so much @i{what} he was doing in as much as @i{who} he was doing - Ooia (Joyp)
 <rnjacobs>

Turns out most people aren't computer geeks :/

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:14:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And sure, it will always be possible to buy an open dev board like the
BeagleBoard or something, but it won't be what everyone has in their
home / pocket

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:14:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

==

Yeah, and same story for "development tools on people's computers".
Gulp.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:14:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Well, lots of non-geeks have open IBM PCs today.  But this is a
historical accident

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:15:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's a pretty sad regression compared to the 1980's, when having a
copy of BASIC burned into ROM was the defining characteristic of a
"personal computer"

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:16:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(Atari even released a shitty BASIC cartridge for the 2600 to justify
its label as "Video Computer System")

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:16:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... how? It didn't ship with anything close to a full keyboard.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:17:44 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that you really can use a pick-axe unless you really can't.
 <rnjacobs>

.... Ok, nevermind, I'd only ever seen the 24 key thing before.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:18:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A pile of coaxial plumbing lies here.
 <rnjacobs>

Ah, but http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/keyboard/
says they never actually made it.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:21:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

And apparently the thing is, I'd never actually @i{looked} at the 24 key
keyboard before to cringe in terror.

Class: geofft Instance: grub.d
Time: Fri Aug 24 21:22:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

(http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/04/everything-i-needed-to-know-about-programming-i-learned-from-basic.html)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:22:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf Microsoft it's been like an hour and this is just mgj59's shim
loader with a custom key, why are you on "Scanning CAB file for
Viruses"

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:23:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hate everything

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:23:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: fourteen forever, if i'll make you believe <lizdenys>

apropoos of nothing ==

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:31:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Coworker quoted the "all programs expand until they can read mail"
adage at me... clearly it is incumbent upon us to write a preboot mail
client

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:32:29 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There's no reason you couldn't, boot services gives you networking,
screen control, and input, doesn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:32:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:32:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Geoffrey, you need to port Emacs to UEFI.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:32:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"need"

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:32:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's clearly the correct thing to do.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:34:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm actually moderately disappointed I can't make a signed $language
interpreter that exposes access to the boot services, because it will
(presumably) violate MS's "no untrusted code" restriction.

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:34:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Although if you have a REPL and require a physically present user and
don't let it autoload any code, then it seems maybe fine?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:57:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Can we stop using the word "ontology"?

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Fri Aug 24 22:58:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It always makes me think of the ontological argument for the existence
of God. Which is a hilariously bad argument.

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:08:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

CRAP

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:08:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Pro tip: conv=notrunc

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:08:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

fml

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:10:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

crap

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:10:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

my machine isn't bootable any more :(

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:12:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like that would just make it more likely that you would damage
something and not notice it.

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:12:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

mix, though... perhaps would have been apropriate 10 minutes ago?

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:14:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Branched double cover all the way across the complex plane! <ageng>

uh... *hug*

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:14:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: fourteen forever, if i'll make you believe <lizdenys>

this is why we have live cds!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:15:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: fourteen forever, if i'll make you believe <lizdenys>

imix

Class: geofft Instance: dd
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:47:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, this was not my personal machine, this was my dev box. "But
apparently we have a bug"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:49:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

mmm, block cipher modes of operation

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 24 23:51:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski. <dwilson>

whenever I think about that, I think about the ECB-encrypted Tux

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Sat Aug 25 00:35:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

aaaaargh Jason Derulo I hate you

Class: geofft Instance: music
Time: Sat Aug 25 00:35:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

("Fight For You", an absolutely terrible bastardization of Toto's
"Africa")

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 00:44:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

<3 test cases

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 00:44:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We should have more of them

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 00:45:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(diffing the DH7 and cdbs versions of the c-p-d examples directory)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:17:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-c geofft might have more opinions: We have these two operations
called "divert" and "remove" that I'm looking for better names for,
mainly because "divert" is already a Debian term and both of these do
a diversion in that sense.

"divert" diverts a file from foo to foo.debathena-orig, and puts a
symlink in place from foo to foo.debathena. You're expected to install
a file named foo.debathena that, if you want, can use
foo.debathena-orig. (So you can use it as a wrapper around a command,
or to replace a command entirely, or even to decide whether to run the
Athena or original version of a command.)

"remove" diverts a file to a Debathena-specific directory, so that
first, it's gone, and second, upgrading whatever package originally
put the file there doesn't accidentally restore the file (since the
Debian package system remembers diversions). It's used when we need to
get a file out of a directory entirely, and renaming it to
.debathena-orig won't suffice.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:19:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

For context, there's a third operation, "transform", which does a
"divert" (in our sense) and also modifies the .debathena-orig file by
running a shell script or regex or something on it and automatically
installs that as .debathena. I'm happy enough with that name; it
doesn't conflict with anything else.

Opinions on better names for "divert" and "remove"?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:20:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm pondering "punt" for "remove", but that feels a little too
MIT-specific lingo

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:22:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I think that use of punt is actually known outside MIT

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:22:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

by analogy with American football

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:23:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, it's not unknown

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:37:41 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

"hide"?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:37:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, good one

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:39:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The meh name I had for "divert" was "sidestep".

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:40:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I assume the MIT meaning also comes from American football, though I
would be immensely pleased to find out that it comes instead from The
Other Cambridge

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:40:31 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

The divert operation is weird because it doesn't necessarily come with
a target for the symlink

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:40:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

So something like "replace" doesn't *really* work

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:41:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

And I suppose "replace" as a word in Debian comes with its own baggage

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:41:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Given that you get a dangling symlink otherwise, I'm fine asserting
that it does.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 01:43:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i,i dh_stunt_double

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf
Time: Sat Aug 25 02:49:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Type-safe Makefiles

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf.2
Time: Sat Aug 25 02:54:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if I can do something along the lines of literate programming
to keep the Makefile and Perl versions of this in sync.

=make
debian_check_files_tmp = $(patsubst %,%.tmp,$(call debian_check_files,$(1)))e
=cut
sub debian_check_files_tmp {
    return map {s/$/.tmp/} debian_check_files(@_);
}
=make
undebian_check_files_tmp = $(call undebian_check_files,$(patsubst %.tmp,%,$(1)))
=cut
sub undebian_check_files_tmp {
    return debian_check_files(map {s/\.tmp$//} @_);
}

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.prnf.2
Time: Sat Aug 25 02:54:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The comments are the same between both versions, so this would let us
keep them once, and also avoid making a change in one version and
forgetting it in the other

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:26:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm.  Displace?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:44:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"displace" carries something of a connotation of doing so unfairly.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:48:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm, not for me.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:48:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"Rails displaced PHP as the mass-market language/framework for web apps
around 2007"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:49:31 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

"This ship displaces over a million tons of water"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:54:51 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Dictionaries tell me that the most on-point sense is to move something
from "its" place.  Not necessarily unfairly, but moving it out of its
normal place or a place it has come to occupy.  Often with the subject of
the verb being the thing that will occupy that place instead.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:56:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which actually makes it even more apt than I'd realized -- it's true that
DEB_DIVERT_FILES moves away the "normal" occupant of a filename.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sat Aug 25 03:56:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't think it's as solid as "hide" is for the other action, though.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:43:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, there's a CTF or something

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:44:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Are you finally going to play?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:46:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe? I keep feeling like if I'm going to spend any weekend time
doing code things, I should write real code.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:46:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

"then play only until you have to write code"

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:47:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There are two hops between [[Charles II of Spain]] and [[Directed
acyclic graph]].

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:48:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

...

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:48:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Find them.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:48:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Er, sorry, there is _one_ hop.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:49:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(There are two between [[War of the Spanish Succession]], which is
what I was originally thinking of)

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:54:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Considering the nature of his ancestry, that is completely
unsurprising.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 16:55:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yup, that's basically the answer.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:03:24 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yikes.  "Charles II's genome was actually more homozygous than that of
an average child whose parents are siblings."

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:04:01 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The man couldn't eat solid food.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:12:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"athrun jifty re.pl" no longer works

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:12:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

What's that?

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:13:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

re.pl is a Perl REPL.

Jifty was Best Practical's Perl web framework. For some inexplicable
reason they decided to do nothing with it nor convince anyone else to
do anything with it. (I think this is what Hiveminder was written in,
n summers ago when nelhage interned at BPS?)

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:14:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is about the only remnant of it:
http://scripts.mit.edu/faq/75/does-scriptsmitedu-suppirt-jifty

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:14:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

TIL

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:14:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(about the locker and scripts support.  I knew about Jifty)

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:14:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Actually, you learned nothing"

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:15:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, good, the Jifty website wiki (which is a wiki in Jifty called
Wifty, IIRC?) is full of spam.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:15:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Well, it is a wiki.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:15:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>Wifty

_really_?

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:15:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://jifty.org/view/Wifty

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:16:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh huh, it's in git on github. I feel like that postdates that era of
Best Practical and it was in some SVK repository or something.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:17:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://jifty.org/view/Wifty/1335

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:18:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, it's actually maintained!
https://github.com/bestpractical/jifty/commits/master

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:20:31 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OH RIGHT svk

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:20:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haha

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:20:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That was a good idea for a couple of years before Git flattened it.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:21:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which I guess is pretty much the story of svn itself, though svk's time
in the sun could only begin once svn was in good shape and so was
shorter.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:21:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

git still isn't usable for $work. :(

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:22:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I thought everyone had agreed not to talk about svk anymore.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:23:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It probably is with git-annex, right?  That just means some work to
migrate.  Or am I forgetting other issues?

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:23:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It probably is.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:24:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess, thinking about it, there is the minor issue of putting
`svnversion` in our version numbers, and needing to have some other
way of making up build numbers (that are monotonically increasing) if
we do something else.

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:27:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway. What is the most perl-ish way to write a function that applies
a regex to its input? The best I can think of is
sub thing {
  $_ = shift;
  s/foo/bar/;
  return $_;
}
which seems way too long.

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:40:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Do you need a function?  For many purposes you would just write the regex
itself where you might otherwise put a function.  See e.g.
'perldoc -f map'.

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:41:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I _think_ I'm using this multiple times, and I don't want multiple
copies of the regex.

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:44:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4904992/how-to-save-a-substitution-regex-search-replace-in-a-variable-similar-to-qr

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:44:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ew

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:46:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It turns out I can actually write
return map {s/foo/bar/} @_;
in one line!

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:47:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, that's not terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:47:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(Why are you in Perl?)

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:48:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Debhelper

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:49:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

i.e., "because it's better than make"

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 17:51:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Can't argue with that.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:02:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf node

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:02:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

Haha, are you using node.js for an attack program?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:03:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No, I'm just starting / reading level 0.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:03:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I know nothing about node, and try to learn as little about JS as I
possibly can

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:03:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I used it as a JS REPL on one of the levels, but not at all as a
server.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:03:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

You don't need to know node to attack this

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:03:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(mostly because it was the first thing I thought of to apt-get install
when I needed a JS REPL)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:04:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(That is, it's level 0. The vulnerability is glaringly obvious.)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:08:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(To further clarify, I mean "to a web brogrammer like geofft")

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:09:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I feel like I should take offense to that :)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:11:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf PHP

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:17:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/all-the-small-things-all-the-things-blink-182.png

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:38:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

> (mostly because it was the first thing I thought of to apt-get
> install when I needed a JS REPL)

Ctrl-Shift-J is your friend. (Or Ctrl-Shift-K in Firefox)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:39:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

==, CLI JS REPL scares me

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:39:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Then you should install gjs. :)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:43:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

The in-browser one is also nice in that you have access to the DOM
and whatever JS libraries are loaded into the page like jQuery.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 18:43:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And gjs is nice because you have access to GNOME.

Class: geofft Instance: no-one-is-surprised
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:09:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> I guess, thinking about it, there is the minor issue of putting
> `svnversion` in our version numbers, and needing to have some other
> way of making up build numbers (that are monotonically increasing) if
> we do something else.   

Barnowl's approach to this (use git describe or so, which gives you
~$tag-$number_commits_since_then+$hash) seems good --- it isn't quite
globally monotonic, but they're globally unique-ish, per-developer
monotonic if they don't rebase, and for things you actually tag
monotonic (if your tags are).

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:13:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

None of the levels require more than rudimentary knowledge of a
particular framework or language (possibly with the exception of
client-side Javascript)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:30:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf Ruby

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:31:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Are you wtfing at a level being in Ruby, or?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:31:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Basically. I don't know Ruby at all, so reading it is annoying.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:31:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What are all these at signs doing?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:31:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Which level?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:32:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I think the @ signs are instance variablse?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:32:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

4 (Karma Trader)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:32:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

An instance variable (declared within an object always "belongs to"
whatever object self refers to) name starts with an ''at'' sign
(''@'') followed by a name (@sign, @_, @Counter).

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:32:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just beat 3, once I finished being dumb. Anyway, have somewhere to be
so -> afk

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:33:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't really feel clever for having solved these levels so far,
just annoyed at the extent of human stupidity and hoping for Haskell
to be mandated by law.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:33:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Then people will make a lot of mistakes in Haskell.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:34:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

None of the first few levels made me feel clever. I felt pretty clever
with the later ones.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:35:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

(That said, I enjoyed doing the CTF because I never actually pulled
off the attacks I've read about before)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:36:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I sorta enjoyed hunting for vulnerabilities. Figuring out how to
exploit them (especially ones where it required knowing the right
command to use or whatever) was less fun.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:37:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I really don't think any of these bugs would be substantially
mitigated by using Haskell, except in the sense that Haskell is not
PHP

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:37:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I still feel like there's a difference between "oh hey, I've found a
vulnerability" and "look, not only did I find the vuln, I also broke
your system with this code/input"

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:37:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haskell vs., say Python+Django, no.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:37:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There is definitely a difference, but it's not a
pedagogically-valuable one past the first few times of knowing it's
doable.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:38:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You can make a Haskell library which forces HTML escaping on
interpolation, but you can also make a Ruby library which forces that.
You might have more runtime errors instead of compile-time errors.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:38:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       There is definitely a difference, but it's not a
       pedagogically-valuable one past the first few times of knowing it's
       doable.

(Or if you're trying to convince a third-party, not just you, to make
changes.)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:39:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Right, sometimes people won't admit their code is insecure until you
provide an exploit (or even then)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:39:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...even then? What do they do, deny the exploit's existence?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:40:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I think it can be pedagogically valuable, because it gives you a
deeper understanding of why the system is vulnerable, and might help
you spot related bugs

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:42:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Like, people learn to identify SQL injection by rote pattern-matching,
but actually writing the exploit might help you spot other problems
relating to escaping and in-band signaling

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:42:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If you take the big view, then SQL injection and blue boxing are the
same kind of attack.  And that view helps when you're designing new
systems, where the similar attacks don't have names yet

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:44:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

achernya: I'm thinking for example of students who demonstrate
weaknesses in school security systems, and get expelled for their
trouble (and nobody bothers fixing the hole)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:45:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Oh....that's not good.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:45:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I imagine the same thing happens in companies, if the person who you
embarass by the demonstration has sufficient political power

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:46:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

OTOH I know a guy who demonstrated an XSS vulnerability on a Google
site and got a job offer in return, so it's not always the case :)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:46:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(It made the local small-town newspaper)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:54:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

> I felt pretty clever with the later ones.

In my opinion, 5, 7, and 8 have clever solutions.  The rest were
pretty straightforward, but still satisfying

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 19:59:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm entertained by the list of programming challenges at
https://stripe.com/jobs because

- the second one is inspired by a thing Nelson did,
- the fourth one is inspired by a thing Nelson and I and a bunch of
  other people did, and
- the first one is answered in the first 10 minutes of
  _The Social Network_

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> return map {s/foo/bar/} @_;

That mutates the caller’s argument and returns 1.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:13:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

       achernya: I'm thinking for example of students who demonstrate
       weaknesses in school security systems, and get expelled for their
       trouble (and nobody bothers fixing the hole)

I dunno about expelled, but I've got first-hand experience with the
"report a vulnerability, but nobody bothers fixing the hole"...

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:14:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is this a moira thing? Because I'm pretty sure the answer there might
be "nobody cares"

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:16:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

Didn't nelson do it *after* stripe posted it? 

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:16:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

re codesearch

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:16:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

People apparently do care about Moira --- remember that guy who was
made a website that listed all public lists, or some such? That info
leak got fixed in like a day.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 20:17:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I believe (from reading Nelson's class) that they happened at the same
time, due to the death of Google Code Search.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:07:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

[stark] For "Unfortunately, your language (has/lacks):" in
http://colinm.org/language_checklist.html, for some of these I'm not
sure which is the *bad* option...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:21:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha:
> [ ] You have reinvented PHP better, but that's still no justification
> [ ] You have reinvented Brainfuck but non-ironically

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:24:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, hey, this is by lizfong?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:24:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, no, lizfong's wife?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:25:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, and two other Googlers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:25:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"I don't care about the people I've never heard of."

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:26:34 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is the format of http://www.leptoquark.net/~elly/identities something
I should have encountered before?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:28:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

It's...a lisp/scheme-based format? Is this...ironic?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:29:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I find myself very confused by Guido's comments...

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:29:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's S-expressions, I wouldn't go so far as to call that Lisp or
Scheme.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:30:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

It's also the same comment syntax.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:30:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Presumably if she lived in SF instead of Boston, it would be JSON.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:30:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

But...she's from CMU.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:30:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't think the SF-ness would wash away MIT or CMU.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:31:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I will admit that my joke does not make a ton of sense

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:31:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's not that confusing, he's just wrong

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:32:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

He got this far in life without ever trying to implement "map" or
"filter" in any "functional" language, which does call into question
his credibility as a programming language designer

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:32:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But Python is pretty good compared to most of the languages designed
by amateurs, so I can't complain too much

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:32:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Isn't map in a functional language as easy as applying f(x) on x and
then tail-recursion?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:33:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yes.  Yes it is.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:33:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

And similarily, filter, except you have to (if? to determine if you
should include the node?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:33:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't think you needed to specify tail recursion there

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:34:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Well, I'm a bit confused by, eg, "This, combined with nested scopes
and a generally Lisp-like approach to function state" since "we have
two scopes: global and function-local [as was, IIRC, the case at one
point in Python, though that may have changed]" doesn't really strike
me as "nested scopes", and "you can get closures, if you do weird
enough things, like abuse keyword arguments" does not strike me as a
"Lisp-like approach to function state".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:35:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

There are closures all over Python.  I have no idea what he's talking
about by "abuse keyword arguments"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:36:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Uh, he doesn't say that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:36:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't getting closures in Python a pain?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:36:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Or, at least, as a function?)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:37:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

The wikipedia article on closures claims it involves a "nonlocal"
keyword (at least, in Python 3)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:38:14 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I'm also somewhat confused by "Lisp (not a functional language
either!)" --- while it has imperative features, the normal style is
pretty functional, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:40:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You need "nonlocal" if you want to mutate a variable in the outer
function's scope.  If you only want to read the closed-over variables
(particularly, if they don't change over time) then lambda and
nested-def both do the right thing in Python 2.x

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:41:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Python's lambda is also syntactically crippled, but this is not a
fundamental problem.  lambda is not actually fundamental to
programming with closures; it's just a convenient literal syntax for
functions, the way {'x': 3} is a convenient syntax for dictionaries.
You could drop that syntax and Python would still have dictionaries.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:42:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

adehnert: Have you read through the codebase of a big project using
Lisp?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:42:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I haven't, so I'm not confident in saying whether the normal style is
functional or not.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:43:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I haven't.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:43:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I know that, for example, the style used by Paul Graham in _On Lisp_
is the opposite of functional.  He uses macros where pure functions
would do fine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:43:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Possibly to make some weird kind of point, possibly because he's crazy

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:44:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I also know that a lot of Lisp advocates will strenuously reject the
"functional" label, because they want Lisp to be industrially relevant
and "functional" is pretty much the death of that

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:45:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Re closures, from elsewhere:
> I have an expression which looks like:
> menu = [(k, v, lambda x: do_transaction(k)) for (k, v) in membook.basic_transactions.items()]
> When I call menu[item][2]() it is using the last k rather than the k
> of the of the correct line. Why is that?

This feels kinda like a failure of closures.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:45:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You'll get the same behavior in Scheme, if you do a faithful
translation

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:46:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That iteration is mutating the values of k and v within the frame
which the lambda closes over.  You can write analogous code in Scheme,
though it wouldn't be considered idiomatic style

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:47:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The problem here (if there is one) is "iteration is done with
mutation" and not "closures don't work".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Aug 25 21:49:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(I believe iteration with mutation is more common in Common Lisp)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 22:54:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Brockman <gdb>

> Didn't nelson do it *after* stripe posted it?
I believe nelhage and patrick came up with the idea together, actually

Class: geofft Instance: perl
Time: Sat Aug 25 23:53:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Oh, oops.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sat Aug 25 23:59:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Isn't one of Rivest's bad ideas based on S-expressions?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:00:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess SPKI/SDSI things don't actually look anything like that file.
(It just seemed plausible.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:01:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haha, I love the homage to Slashdot's spam ideas checklist. (And I
had cause to use it in an HN discussion a bit back when some
brilliant guy was like "just use Twitter to replace email")

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:01:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Local copy at
http://ldpreload.com/p/slashdot-spam-idea-checklist.txt
for those of you too young to remember Slashdot and have encountered
this before.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:30:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You know, I wonder if the Castro is the one place I feel at least as
unsafe walking alone at night as I would expect a lone female to.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:33:11 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, taht postdates the Slashdot one? I was wondering about that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:33:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> "just use Twitter to replace email"

Uh. Doesn't that fail the very basic "Can I send a paragraph of
information to you" test? (Never mind tons of other issues...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:33:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, the Slashdot one is _old_. "And certainly predates Google
existing"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:34:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think the proposal was "just patch Twitter to allow sending
arbitrary amounts of text"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:34:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"easy"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:37:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://hackerne.ws/item?id=4326931
http://www.virtualpants.com/post/28528584996/the-future-of-email-is-twitter

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:38:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why's that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:46:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"The recent launch of Outlook.com has got me thinking about email.
The new Outlook is pretty slick. But, it’s a hassle to change email
addresses. [...] Twitter, or a platform like join.app.net, should
offer an email-like service."

Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:51:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, this is actually the dumbest article ever.

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:51:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have still not tried kombucha. I feel like I should do so once.

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:51:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:51:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

is that a food?

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:52:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: passing out is a security vulnerability -afarrell <ismith>

> for those of you too young to remember Slashdot and have encountered
> this before

*cries*
*remembers goatse*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:53:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If we had all stayed on AOL, then we would have an email
service without this "email address" to change problem.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:53:24 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

In fact, I hear AOL accounts are free these days.

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:53:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's some sort of fermented tea with bacteria still in it?

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:54:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

That sounds.........yeah, that doesn't sound apetizing.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:54:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm moderately curious if anyone on my class is too young for goatse.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:55:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

I don't think there's anyone on your class young enough for
slashdot...*remembers I'm not a frosh*

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:55:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

*too young

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:56:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"The kombucha culture can also be used to make an artificial
leather.[2]"

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:56:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I have a legit reason to ask and it doesn't involve assassination, fwiw. -kbyers <ismith>

"Members of the GNAA also founded Goatse Security, a grey hat
information security group. Members of Goatse Security released
information in June 2010 about a vulnerability located on AT&T's
website that notably affected the privacy of people who pre-ordered
the iPad. After the vulnerability was disclosed, the then-president of
the GNAA, weev, and GNAA member "JacksonBrown" were arrested."

... "Wikipedia's standards for 'encyclopædic' have gone way down."

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 00:59:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Kombucha has amassed a large cult following in Seattle, WA, where the
beverage is lovingly referred to as 'ass juice.'[11]"

\ldots{}

Class: geofft Instance: preeya
Time: Sun Aug 26 01:02:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 1.  People who use zero-indexed arrays. <dwilson>

I tried it once, not knowing exactly what it was and thinking "oh hey,
new type of tea."
It is absolutely disgusting.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 01:03:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

we tried to delete GNAA over 9000 times.

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Sun Aug 26 01:03:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gay_Nigger_Association_of_America_(22nd_nomination)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 02:10:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

well that was dumb
(that one level; not done yet)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 02:10:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I continue to not actually feel either smart or clever, just annoyed.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 02:10:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Which level?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 02:12:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> personals

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 02:13:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That particular level just reminded me of why I really dislike
Mystery Hunt.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 03:26:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wtf Bootstrap

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 03:27:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

You haven't noticed that these things are all making fun of the
internet yet?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 03:27:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have :)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 03:29:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Bootstrap?

Class: geofft Instance: firstworldproblems
Time: Sun Aug 26 14:58:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My room is too sunny to be able to read the Stripe CTF website any
more

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 15:50:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm very impressed by how well-put-together the backend is, both in
terms of technical functionality and design

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 15:56:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Having a box of Oreos in front of me is dangerous

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 15:58:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:02:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

"Go gluten free and they won't be"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:02:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

:P

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:03:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Why would you go gluten-free if you're not celiac?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:03:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: SF <ekate>

Wouldn't being gluten-intolerant making them *more* dangerous? :p

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:04:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Depending on who you ask, gluten is a horrible poison and everyone
would be better off without it

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:04:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Really I should go glutton-free.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:04:15 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Have you tried all our flavors?
 <rnjacobs>

++

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:04:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I am pretty sure I do not buy that in the slightest.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:05:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Neither do I, but it's not like I've read the literature.  I don't
know where this falls on the spectrum of things people believe about
food.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:09:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha, but if you're gluten-intolerant, you aren't tempted to. :)
Um, so a while back I posted to my class about gluten and, from what
I've read, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that all of the
genetic modification to wheat has caused the rate of celiac to go up
several times in the last century. The wheat that people eat today is
much, much different than the wheat even 50 years ago. I'll stop here
to prevent too many people from shouting me down, but the book I
recently read about wheat also cited studies about how a polypeptide
in wheat binds to opiate receptors... no other grains do that.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:10:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I'd be curious to hear a reference, anyway. Also, Christy, want to
come to http://pointlesstopology.com/events tonight?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:11:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, Christy's in the east bay! Hm, who else on my class is there
(I'm probably not going, fwiw)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:12:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

For some inexplicable reason, my apartment gets Training and
Conditioning Magazine. (It's addressed to a gym at my apartment's
address. I didn't know we were a gym.) There was an interesting
article about the paleo diet and its merits. One of the arguments was
"so, uh, we started getting unhealthy 50 years ago, not ten millennia
ago"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:13:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think the conclusion was generally that there are things with the
paleo diet that mesh with good ideas anyway, and that's true of all
diets, and you should just use it to spur you to eat less things that
are clearly and obviously bad for you, and "no processed meats" or
whatnot is less interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:14:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We started getting unhealthy when we both made corn hella cheap and
decided that everything needed to be low-fat (and started adding sugar
to make up for the loss in taste)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:15:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

And wheat hella cheap too... which is connected with the genetic
modifications that made it have a higher output and more gluten
protein (which also has changed drastically from the original gluten
from ancient wheat).

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:16:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

oOo "spawn of seitan"

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:16:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

+++++ hahahha

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:17:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

AFAICT, Eat less sugar, replace starches with fat, eat more fiber, be careful
with soy.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:18:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I just ate some leftover goat brie at a friend's home. It was tasty,
and surely high-fat. (:

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:24:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haight!

Salaighd!

Pairthenoghenesis!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:26:39 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

... I see your "salaighd" and want to parse it as Gaelic.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:27:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Were I to sell my fiddle, the world would think I was mad <kdrinkwa>

==

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:27:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Salaiȝd!

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 16:51:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> "Go gluten free and they won't be"

I wouldn't be so sure about that. My dad's been known to eat a slice
of pie, and at the end of it we all look at him and go "Uh, doesn't
that have gluten" and he sorta looks sheepish when he realizes what
he did.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:25:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Whoa, does your dad have an intolerance/celiacs? How did I not know
this???

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:26:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

And, uh, from being vegan for so long, I have gotten used to looking
at ingredient labels before I eat anything.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:26:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I have no idea how you missed this.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I know! I seem unconsciously sniff out the gluten intolerance/veganism
in everyone I meet... Is it celiac or an intolerance or a diet choice?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:29:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Intolerance, I believe.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:30:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Wait, no, I actually do remember him talking about it at your picnic.
(I then proceeded to high-five him.) I remember this now. How did that
slip out of my memory though?? :S

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:30:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

And he was like, Sure I'll high-five you...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:31:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(He didn't say that, he just seemed a little hesitant to high-five
that.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:31:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Isn't it kind of weird to high-five someone for having a medical
problem?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:33:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

...uh, if you knew me better, you'd know that I'm a little more
outgoing in some 'weirder' ways like that. :P

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:33:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(I found a fellow sufferer! There's something awesome about meeting
someone who also has to deal with the same thing that you do.)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:40:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> Wait, no, I actually do remember him talking about it at your picnic.

See, and that's basically why I thought you might know...

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 17:42:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Brockman <gdb>

Thanks... that was about two or three weeks of my life

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 18:10:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That too, it certainly seems like a nontrivial amount of work. :)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:28:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:29:16 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-30.MIT.EDU
From: #023 Ekans <cesium>

What is it this time?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:29:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have an exploit that as far as I can tell works (it works if I test
locally) and I have no debugging information

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:30:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"If I wanted to spend my time debugging blind, I'd just answer some
customers' tickets"

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:30:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Is this for the last level?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:30:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:34:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... why is there a full HTML copy of Alan Turing's Wikipedia article

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:34:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I do not understand undergrads and their spamwars

Class: geofft Instance: ezyang
Time: Sun Aug 26 19:35:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(this is "TAKE ME OFF THIS EMAIL LIST IMMEDIATELY!!!" from February)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Aug 26 22:04:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

(stark)

> We started getting unhealthy when we both made corn hella cheap and
> decided that everything needed to be low-fat (and started adding sugar
> to make up for the loss in taste)

I think we fucked up when we started arrogantly thinking that we understood a lot
more about nutrition than we actually do.

Also, this isn't the first time we've done something stupid like that with
corn. See how long it took Europeans to rediscover nixtamalization.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 00:44:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aha, _that's_ how I debug

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woah, redesign

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Either that or I just went insane

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Everything got bigger!

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

Looks the same to me. Check your zoom level.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

You just went insane

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:07:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

== not-you.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:11:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh no! I'm not insane! The site just looks different with JavaScript
disabled.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:11:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also doesn't work.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:13:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aand with that discovered I can actually go to the next level.
Onwards!

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Mon Aug 27 01:16:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Whoo, level 7?

Class: geofft Instance: .d
Time: Mon Aug 27 02:26:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The Internet and Real Life are neighboring countries with a brutally-efficient extradition treaty. -kevinr <ismith>

> Isn't it kind of weird to high-five someone for having a medical
> problem?

[Stark]  No.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 28 11:29:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... did our Nagios server complain that it was itself down? How...??

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Tue Aug 28 11:29:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To extend our reach to the stars above <achernya>

No, it complained that it couldn't establish an https connection to
itself, which is reasonable if it's hosed, and it's prone to hosage.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 12:04:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, it's VMworld this week

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 12:05:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I bet I wanted to show up at some point, hm

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 12:07:09 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

oh, are you not going? the first demo this morning was fun.

Class: geofft Instance: vmworld
Time: Tue Aug 28 12:48:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think my conclusion is that I only care about products we're using,
not products we're (maybe) competing against, and there's exactly one
session about Workstation tomororrow, so -> work

Class: geofft Instance: vmworld
Time: Tue Aug 28 12:48:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Although, huh, I wonder what hypervisor Mirage is built on. It has to
be Workstation, right?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:31:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right we have a tweetup in the city today

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:31:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

... a "tweetup"?

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:31:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's like a meetup, but organized on Twitter.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:31:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anything that causes frosh to set each other on fire is fine by me! - geofft <wings>

That's terrible.

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:31:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I see ...

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:32:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wings: It was all downhill from "webinar"

Class: geofft Instance: twitter
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:32:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Forgive me, Hipster Jesus! I only sinned ironically. - geofft <wings>

True

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:45:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Passenger can't find his ticket. Caltrain person complains. Passenger
doesn't get off. Caltrain person can't find her citation forms.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: [redacted] isn't the brightest lightbulb in the crayon box. -wings <ismith>

++

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*hah*

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I feel like you should not be allowed to ask the other crew on the
train to borrow their citation forms...

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

why not?

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Fair is fair, no? :)

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: But this seems to be getting into 'technical solutions to psychological problems' territory. -xavid <ismith>

i,i Fare is fare.

Class: geofft Instance: caltrain
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:46:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hehehehe

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Tue Aug 28 13:54:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:09:08 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>>I should really write the FUSE NFS client...  
>BITD wesommer wrote a commandline one.  with an ss interface :-)

i remember vicegrips, was that jtkohl? i didn't know about the nfs
one.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:09:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hahahahahaha, vicegrips

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:09:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

that's awesome

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:13:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Um. Customer's log file includes a message that ends with "Not
good...".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:13:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I wonder if that's the bug"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:21:54 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

vicegrips had a handcoded rx, i think maybe involving some assembler. 

no crypto of course.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:23:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Pants fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:23:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Mere *nudity*, please.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:23:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'm a fan of lazily-evaluated adulthood. -oremanj <ismith>

geofft++

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:23:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Same thing"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:23:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, perhaps "the waistline cannot hold"

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:35:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's the month of March. <anusinha>

++

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:44:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... Dear person who is complaining about NetworkManager and wants to
get rid of it, did you realize that your proposed replacement is to a
T the design spec of NetworkManager?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:57:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait so are they killing IAP or something?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:58:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's the screwups that make us interesting.  - Chase, House <wings>

There was a survey sent out about IAP that had options about
shortening it/lengthening the reading periods

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 15:59:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (on Seattle) It rains like twice a year there.  January through August and September through December. - andrewd <wings>

The committee on this was started in early spring, and makes its final
recommendation at the start of fall, and this survey popped up...
yesterday.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:00:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: To unite all peoples within our nation <lfaraone>

[stark] Across the board, the incidence of "stranger rape" is low, 
and I think the Castro is pretty safe fwiw. C

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:01:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, sure. I'm just commenting that it's one of the few areas where I
possibly should let _my_ expected threat of stranger rape match the
average female's (which is low, but usually orders of magnitude higher
than mine)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:02:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This code... works at all, right?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:04:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what just happened

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:05:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... where did my Firefox go

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:05:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

COME BACK FIREFOX I NEED YOU :( :(

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:05:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is it in `ps`?

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:06:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Read what? n - YUM YUM. You feel in touch with the Universal Oneness. <ezyang>

I think your Firefox got hit by a bus.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:06:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Worse than that, it's in the set of things I can Alt-[jk] to

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:06:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I see the title in xmobar! But I don't actually see the window

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:06:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

and I can move it to another desktop! But it hides there too

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:07:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The heisenbug bites you. Your velocity becomes uncertain! <ezyang>

Win-q

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:07:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

How dare you call it Win! Its name is Super.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:08:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh. Screw you, past geofft!

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:08:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'd bound Alt-\ to withFocused (sendMessage . maximizeRestore),
whatever that means.

Class: geofft Instance: xmonad
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:09:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ezyang: Tried that. But it was in a consistent state, and preserved
that state

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:21:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: We got to leave. Well, I do anyway. You can just turn into a couch. - " The Circle", Deep Space 9 <ekate>

[stark] I originally interpeted that as 'it is uncomfortable to be (potentially)
looked at sexually when you are already uneasy about your safety'
(because it makes you stand out as a target more, for example). Which
is certainly true for me. 

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:25:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

the crap do we use socketpair for???

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:57:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

eeeee, more customers

Class: geofft Instance: work.n-c
Time: Tue Aug 28 16:57:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

:-D

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 19:18:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Sigh, coworker who rewrote all this code is on vacation for a month
working on his kickstarter or some nonsense

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 19:19:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

which means I can't bother him with questions :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Aug 28 19:19:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Actually he's probably on email.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:04:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: No. Not without incident. <eichin>

(continuing to stark)
>>>I should really write the FUSE NFS client... 
>>BITD wesommer wrote a commandline one.  with an ss interface :-) 
>i remember vicegrips, was that jtkohl? i didn't know about the nfs one. 
Pretty sure it was even called "eclipse" or some similar
Sun-pun... the presence of /afs/athena/contrib/watchmaker/vaxsrc/nfsping/eclipse_errs.et
seems to support that, even

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:05:54 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

jtkohl had an fsdb implementation...not sure if that was what oyu meant
or related or not.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:09:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

*shuddler* ss...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:10:02 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I'm slightly surprised that the open source community
hasn't reinvented a (better?) ss.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:10:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ss... is that, uh, subsystem?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:10:59 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:10:59 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

sub shell

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:11:21 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: US Patent 6,763,370.  Issued July 13, 2004; 2nd of 6. <eichin>

no, subsystem.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:11:33 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The first one you're meant to find.  The real one is underneath it and much harder to see... <eichin>

"they did, but it was called tcl"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:12:28 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: wide eyed, straightforward, undiplomatic, sardonic -- just like Feynman... <eichin>

(problem was, you'd have to rewrite all 50 lines of
existing code to define them as tcl verbs instead of make_ss input)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:13:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Link to ss?  It's not exactly easy to google...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:13:14 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

libss

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:13:32 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It produces the...command line interface that is so familiar
to users of "discuss."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:13:46 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

e2fsprogs is the canonical-ish source, these days.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:13:50 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

kadmin!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:14:10 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

"Not to be confused with com_err."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:14:12 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

zctl (until recently, at least).

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:14:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: main(a){while(a=~getchar())putchar(~a-1/(~(a|32)/13*2-11)*13);} <eichin>

there *was* a tcl kadmin, in kerbnet, though we
mostly used it as a test driver (there was a tk gui around it too that
was pretty generally hated)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:16:25 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Gliese 581 c <eichin>

hmm, http://www.multicians.org/noah.html talks a lot
about forum itself (the thing discuss is mimicing) but assumes the
reader is already familiar with subsystem (it dates to 1983 so that's
not actually unreasonable :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:16:26 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, Mark, I don't remember if you saw that the particular combination
of tcl and whatnot on my laptop causes the krb5 tests to spin inside
the tcl interpreter's cleanup routine.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:18:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cooking-Related Memetic Disorder <eichin>

that sounds familiar, in that I think I've seen
others complain about that before, but my gut reaction is "you're at least a decade
late on switching to python for testing" :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:19:08 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Oh, we have python tests, too.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:19:40 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The queen did not ask the [ISS] crew any direct questions, but was heard to say "fascinating" several times... <eichin>

"From time to time, people need to be reminded that
they are dealing with other people and not with words on a terminal."
(from that 1983 URL)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:19:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm curious how people were _more_ polite!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:20:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"It is also not uncommon to see someone apologizing, and in general
people appear to be more polite when using Forum than they are in
person."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 20:20:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That said "There are also people who are more disruptive when using
Forum than they are in a face-to-face meeting."

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:34:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> Caltrain -> #M5Tweetup at The Chieftain. Stop by and say hi or
something

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:41:34 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> not sure if that was what oyu meant or related or not.

no, vicegrips was a command line afs client. like, you could have it
get or put files

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:45:41 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

aha

john f carr. jfc@mit

/afs/dementia.org/src/vicegrips is my copy

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:46:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> It supports Berkeley sockets and the TLI interface. 

o_O

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:47:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Things actually *used* TLI?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:47:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

What's TLI?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:47:29 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Too Little Information.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:48:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The SysV Transport Layer Interface.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:48:55 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Supposed to be an abstraction layer on top of TCP/IP, the OSI stack,
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:49:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(Thankfully, OSI lost)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:49:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It was the SysV competitor to Berkeley sockets?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:50:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

More or less. It was also all tied in with STREAMS.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:50:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(from which you can conclude that it was a Terrible Idea, if you
hadn't already)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:50:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

STREAMS meaning?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:50:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

A really bad idea Bell Labs had and got into SysV.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:51:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STREAMS

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:52:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

The wiki page seems to be missing what the STREAMS syscalls actually
are?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:53:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What's bad about it?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:54:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It was hideously complicated, among other things.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:54:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I should defer to someone who was actually in the industry in its
heyday, though.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:55:14 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

https://lkml.org/lkml/1998/6/28/138 is Alan Cox's opinion on the
matter.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 21:56:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> , Sun moved away from streams for the performance parts of their
> networking (their papers imply what actually occurs is "Hi Im a
> streams module but I do Sun funky network too" "Hi Im the other
> module on this stack right now, I also do sun funky networking - lets
> stuff this streams shit and talk sanely")

The Solaris 10 Internals book currently serving as a computer stand on
my desk at work claims this to still be the case.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:07:14 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: me <eichin>

streams - as I recall you opened a file handle and "pushed" a
streams module on the "stack"; note that this part was identical for
"creating a pty master" and "creating a TCP socket" :)  Once it was
there, you had a few (still way too generic) syscalls (ioctls, I
think? or something like them) for sending messages to the modules...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:07:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The whole thing is layers of indirection piled on top of layers of
indirection.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:08:38 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Scientific test number 1: poke it. <eichin>

even at the time, the right answer for sockets was
"screw that noise" and use the "BSD compatibility" sockets API (which
was more "real" on some platforms anyway) but most of the time if you
wanted a pty master you really had to use the streams version for it
to actually work.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:08:58 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Vorkosigan/Naismith in 2000 <eichin>

(this was the kind of shit configure was good at :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:09:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Unless you were on MacOS on PPC, in which case you were stuck with
OpenTransport.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:09:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Which was STREAMS/TLI with an extra AppleTalk provider.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:10:16 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If you're not screaming yet, you're not paying attention.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:10:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh, is that why interoperability with Appletalk back in the day was
impossible?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:10:57 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Cambridge *is* The Village <eichin>

... didn't you have MacTCP? at least as a
user-installable option? right up to the point where something set the
urgent data marker on the socket and it all went to hell...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:11:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

MacTCP was deliberately never ported from 68k.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:11:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, yes, that.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:12:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And you had to pick system-globally whether you were using MacTCP or
OT, and Apple strongarmed most people into writing for OT, so...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:12:42 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(Jane's NBC Protection Equipment) <eichin>

ahh, I may be dredging from further back, sure. 
(I actually still have the "PPC 701 Quadra" we used for porting, so I
have kerberos nightmares from both sides of the CPU change :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:12:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Man, I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:12:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:13:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Anyway, point being, STREAMS was insane, no new software uses it
anymore, and even Solaris only preserves the illusion that it's using
STREAMS while secretly doing everything possible to avoid it under the
hood.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:19:19 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Forgive them, Father, for they do not get the joke. <eichin>

(wow, was that really 1994? I'm torn between "how do
we remember this stuff" and "why..." :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:19:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

You're remembering things almost my lifespan ago.....

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:21:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I spent too much time with the Macs at school.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:21:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and frequently ended up in trouble for poorly-defined reasons as a
result)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:22:48 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: (scary thought for today - APL with operator overloading). <eichin>

*at the time* this arcane knowledge was hard won and
extremely valuable... literally - knowing how streams ptys worked [and
more importantly, recognizing what it looked like when using the wrong
path] let me finish a ~$10k 1-week porting gig in a day, including a
long lunch and air travel :-)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:23:15 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: @b(questions) are a burden to others   @b(answers) a prison for oneself <eichin>

("hitting with hammer: $5.  Knowing where to hit: $9995")

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:23:46 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hah!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:24:19 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Ah, 1994. i,i Mac IIfx running A/UX...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:24:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Aw man, you had an A/UX machine? Cool!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:24:41 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(I guess that was more 1992 really)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:24:46 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: stupidity is not a supported service <eichin>

SIPB had an A/UX machine.  I never saw them commercially.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:25:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The network guy at my high school had a machine with the OS X Public
Beta. And I got to play with OSX Server 1.2 briefly in college (and I
actually have a working VM of the Intel version of Rhapsody!)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:25:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But I never played with A/UX

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:26:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

And I had a NeXTstation and some old Sparcs I got off ebay cheap at
home.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:26:11 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But that was just me being strange.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Aug 28 23:26:39 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I wrote school papers in wordperfect on the NeXT!)

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr-for-the-masses-crappy-edition
Time: Wed Aug 29 00:38:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://github.com/spartango/Malcolm-bot

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr-for-the-masses-crappy-edition
Time: Wed Aug 29 00:40:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"It's still XMPP"

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr-for-the-masses-crappy-edition
Time: Wed Aug 29 00:40:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But it's in gchat, which is the only way you will ever reach the
masses

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr-for-the-masses-crappy-edition
Time: Wed Aug 29 00:41:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Have you actually used it?

Class: geofft Instance: zephyr-for-the-masses-crappy-edition
Time: Wed Aug 29 00:42:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: tr.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:00:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"ICANN's Boondoggle

"The group that oversees Internet domain names is shaking things up for
no good reason. For details, check out www.mass.confusion."

Class: geofft Instance: leftover-soup
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:13:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=278

Hmmm.

Class: geofft Instance: leftover-soup
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:13:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Mostly at the newspost, not the comic.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:24:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It appears to be finish-the-CTF-o'clock

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:25:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

woot! 7 and 8 or just 8?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:26:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm working on 7, price is working on 8

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:26:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ecprice is gloating 'cause he's done >_<

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:26:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is he here?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:27:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:28:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

When does it close, noon Wednesday?

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:29:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I wish I'd done the ctf at the sipb office with other people around.
It would have been more fun.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:29:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

At least you had the option. I was still stuck (and am still stuck) in
ohio.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:29:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasgall: Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:30:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hence, finish the CTF o'clock.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:30:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You /might/ manage it.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:31:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

There is a certain unavoidable-amount-of-time component to 8.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:31:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

achernya: I doubt there were other people around the office doing it.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:31:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if I can swing staying up until then.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:33:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Looks like ther eare about 500 people hammering away at it right now,
yeah, that's going to mean the servers are loaded.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:33:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Which makes 8 even harder.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:34:20 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Ask gdb to extend it. Or give you a private server."

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Aug 29 01:35:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> Ask gdb to extend it.

(gdb) break *(Wednesday at noon)
No symbol table is loaded.  Use the "file" command.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:32:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Okay, that took longer than it should have. Onto level 8...

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:37:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

man, I have no convenient forms of caffeine in my apartment :(

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:37:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I can go make tea or coffee, both of which are effort)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:50:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:50:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Tea is effort?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:50:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I guess I have like tea in bags.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:51:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I have loose tea, and I'm not really sure what to do with it.)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:51:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

as opposedto....

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:51:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

...

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:51:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have a tea strainer?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:51:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I dunno?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

geofft, we need to get reasonable tea-making devices

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

==

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I also fail at having one of these

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is your fault anyway!

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

bwahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I am the master of getting you into messes

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

or something

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:52:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You are the master of buying things that sound like a good idea at the
time

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:53:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

that's definitely true

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:53:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I believe I have
http://www.amazon.com/Finum-Brewing-Large-Basket-Black/dp/B000J3JFJU/ref=sr_1_7?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1346226755&sr=1-7.
It works well. I anti-recommend things like
http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Ball/dp/B00004RIZ7/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1346226755&sr=1-1
or
http://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Stainless-Steel-Tea-Ball/dp/B000HJDE9I/ref=sr_1_6?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1346226755&sr=1-6.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:54:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

In general, ~anything from
http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=3737181 is probably acceptable.
(As is buying something from a physical store.)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:56:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I'm thinking of something like
http://www.amazon.com/Adagio-Teas-16-Ounce-Ingenuitea-Teapot/dp/B000FPN8TK

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:56:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That looks... modern.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:57:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

hm, that is actually not quite what I want

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:57:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is this sort of thing
http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-Assam-4-Cup-Press-Teapot/dp/B00005LM0Z
reasonable? It looks like it ought to be.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 03:59:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

so this is basically what I want, but the reviews say this one breaks easily:
http://www.amazon.com/GROSCHE-KENT-Infuser-Teamug-capacity/dp/B002I7FRPG/

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:00:19 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Just get a tea basket, and stick it in a mug. Nice and simple.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:01:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

aren't they often annoying to clean?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:01:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

kyoki: This looks vaguely similar, with reasonable reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Bodum-12-Ounce-Double-Glass-Strainer/dp/B003D3NC2O

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:01:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, mmm. *shrug*

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:02:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, that's basically what I want

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:02:38 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I mostly rinse out the leaves, and then maybe put it through the
sanitizer.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:02:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I have a tea pot with a very reasonable strainer, but it's annoying to clean, so
I never use it

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:03:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Or soap and water.) It seems to work fine, and I don't really mind it?

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:03:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

the tea leaves often get stuck and the shape is kind of awkward

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:10:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Come on up, I got a lifeline -- Come on up to this train of mine <kdrinkwa>

Karl has those fine-wire-mesh-basket doodads and all we do is rinse
the leaves out of them and it's fine. (There are a few teas with tiny
little bits or twigs that can get stuck and it's a little annoying,
but those aren't the teas we use most often.)

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 04:19:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

A kindred spirit!

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 06:40:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 07:46:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I think I killed my wireless card by forkbombing my local machine.

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 07:46:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, uh, good to know that's possible, but, I'm not sure it helps me

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 07:47:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, and I started 503ing Stripe's servers, too. "Oops"

Class: geofft Instance: stripe-ctf
Time: Wed Aug 29 08:55:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's fcgi, it will come back eventually.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 29 08:59:22 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> actually have a working VM of the Intel version of Rhapsody!)

there was a time i would have asked for a copy of that.

that time is about 7 years past.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Wed Aug 29 10:36:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

FYI, you (I presume, based on this tea conversation) left the milk
out.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 29 12:25:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> asked for a copy of that

Yeah, you don't want it. There...isn't actually a lot you can do with
it.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 29 14:33:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

(starking) OpenTransport was the bees' knees!

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 29 14:33:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Quentin Smith <quentin>

As was A/UX, but A/UX deserved to die.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Aug 29 14:33:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Stick-like, chitinous, and hairy?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 15:46:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*yawn*

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug 29 15:50:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Go to work?

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug 29 15:51:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I halfway want to go to a VMworld thing at 4 (for work-related
reasons), so going to work now would be a huge pain. On the other
hand, I think I owe a few people face time (and at least one person
FaceTime).

I think maybe my best option is to skip the VMworld thing

Class: geofft Instance: doxp
Time: Wed Aug 29 16:03:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Daniel Jared Dominguez <danjared>

How many people do you owe facepalms?

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 29 17:59:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

message / white-magic / aatharuv  2012-08-29 14:58  (By 2010, according to senior Intel architects, a CPU will have )
    Black CNN camerawoman gets peanuts thrown at her saying, "This is how we
    feed animals."

    CNN says that there was an incident, and that they will make no
    further comment. Way to go to stand up for your employees.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/40831_What_Right_Wing_Racism_This_Is_How_We_Feed_Animals
MESSAGE / white-magic / keithw  2012-08-29 14:58  (Keith)
    How would you want them to respond, to better stand up for
    their employees?
tibbetts / reddit / aatharuv  2012-08-29 14:58  (zephyring is not unpacking)
    jhawk: A drone strike -- this is Anwar Awlaki's 16 year old son.

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 29 18:06:28 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

++

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 29 18:46:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Interestingly, CNN is not running the story (afaict) while BBC is
giving it a pretty high billing

Class: geofft Instance: juxta
Time: Wed Aug 29 18:46:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

geofft experiences juxta. Film at 11, on BBC.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:25:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

C-SPAN
CPAN

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:29:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

CAN
CN
C

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:30:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:31:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

can has CAN bus

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:33:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Haha ++

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:34:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(Haha, at first I thought geofft was giving me a worse-than-ldots
response, and then I realized it was a continuation. ++)

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:39:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>



Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:46:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Oh har har har :P

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:47:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

"Now let's see who can come up with negative letters"

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:49:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Negative, letters, like the backwards R in cyrillic?

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:49:32 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

C-SAN
Comprehensive Schema Archive Network

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:49:40 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: You can never OD on cynicism.  <aatharuv>

Err, Scheme.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:49:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Somebody set up us the bung. <ageng>

"ja."

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Aug 29 19:50:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++geofft
I was thinking like, letters that consumed other letters... like
antimatter...

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:02:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oooh, 20" tablet:
http://presscentre.sony.eu/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=7959&NewsAreaId=2

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:02:39 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"Large print iPad"

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:02:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Us ut a Retuba>

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:02:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Er, *Is it a Retina*

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:03:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No. 1600x900 resolution

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:03:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:04:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The large print giveth and the small print taketh away <mherdeg>

 lol, someone put a TV on the floor

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:04:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Geng <ageng>

5.2 kg? ow.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:07:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Why would anyone want a 20" tablet?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:08:13 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Hjelp, jeg har falt og jeg kan ikke stå opp igjen! <eichin>

they would (the Cintiq), but this isn't one :-)

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:08:30 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

There are still a lot of people who prefer touch screen to
mouse.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:08:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

And Windows 8 is a complete piece of crap, but apparently
makes touch screens quite desirable.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:18:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Until you're like "oops I accidentally a desktop".

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:21:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

tibbetts: Have you used Windows 8?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:22:18 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

No, just talked to my developers who do.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:22:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

ah

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:23:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I've used it a bit (although a corporate image). It's... Unity and GNOME 3
seem perfect in comparison.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:23:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://twitter.com/geofft/status/166676778511896576

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:24:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

basically

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:25:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm not convinced its interface is good for anything.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:25:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Every time you lie to yourself, we @b{feed} on it. We're @b{so} very hungry." <mherdeg>

Have you been using it on a slate device? Or maybe they're called
something else now?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:25:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

It's like they resurrected a version of Encarta from the 90's and slapped
it on as a new Windows interface.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:26:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

me? I've used it in a VM and some on x-rev hardware

Class: geofft Instance: hn.d
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:34:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

Oh man, now I miss more than ever the "VAIO Space" UI that
shipped in 1996 on Sony PCV desktops on top of Windows 95.

Class: geofft Instance: hn.d
Time: Wed Aug 29 20:34:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

They had an awesome rotating 3D cube thing going on that let you
choose between Encarta, Wipeout, and a sound editor!!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:17:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

dear geofft's body: why do you have RSI? do you realize that makes no
sense?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:18:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

sincerely, geofft's brain, who has things that need to get typed

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:24:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why does it make no sense?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:26:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Are you using a fluffy for your wrists? I started getting pain when I                                                          
typed, got some fluffies, and I've been fine ever since. I'd
recommend a long one for your keyboard and a small one for your
mouse.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:31:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What's a fluffy?  Google finds "Fluffy wrist cuffs" which I think are
not what you mean...

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:37:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

bIlujDI' yIchegh()Qo'; yIHegh()!

It is better to die() than to return() in failure.

        -- Klingon programming proverb.

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:39:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Oh, Perl.

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:40:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You missed my Summer 2009 zephyrs, which included every few days me
zephyring some silly thing from perldoc...

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:40:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, is autodie a reasonable thing to use?

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:44:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You're in Perl. Act according to the prevailing standards of
reasonableness.

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:44:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is it?

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:45:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Like I don't know if this matches the standards of reasonableness.

Class: geofft Instance: perldoc.q
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:46:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

My point is that this is Perl, and so you left any sort of standard of
reasonableness far behind already. It was more of a joke, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:47:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There is a woman here with a ... guitar? looks larger than a guitar
... and a giant teddy bear.

Class: geofft Instance: muni
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:47:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The bear does not fit on a seat, it is that big

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:48:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Were I to sell my fiddle, the world would think I was mad <kdrinkwa>

By "fluffy", do you mean a soft wrist rest? I've been thinking about
making one of those for my trackball.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:52:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

(Are we sharing RSI tips here?  I do have some.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Aug 29 22:52:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'd think that Geoff would still have an aversion to wrist rests.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Aug 30 02:05:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I want to learn about fluffies, too.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 03:24:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yes, it's those gel things that you put under your wrist. You can get
them at Amazon relatively fast and inexpensively. (When I use the term
'fluffy' it can mean anything that is fun and/or desirable, or 
something close to the meaning, like squishy. I should probs be more
careful online when I don't have vocal inflection to help me, haha.)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 03:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Can you provide a sample Amazon link so I know what you mean? That'd
be very helpful!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 03:34:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Long wrist pad: http://amzn.to/S0Kh2p
Short for mouse pad: http://amzn.to/NDFJra

I got a different type, but this is basically the same thing.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 03:35:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

I prefer the firmer gel ones, but you might like something with more
give to it.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:17:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wow, it must be, like, the day before the midway or something

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:17:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

all y student groups are exploding

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:17:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... except SIPB. You guys _are_ planning on recruiting, right

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:17:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't cross a vector with a scalar. <dwilson>

would you prefer we explode?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:17:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:18:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

dwilson, can you get on the exploding? I'm not on campus yet...

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:18:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

achernya:  Will you be here tomorrow?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:18:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

At the _least_ make sure the VT100 is in reasonable working order. :)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:18:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

No, I won't get in til Saturday.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:18:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll never hear a lemma at a bar. <dwilson>

I can send mail to sipb-office.  And, uh, try to find the source for
our flier and update it

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:19:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

someone act like lizdenys and make pastries

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:21:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think half of updating the flyer is knowing when stories/tours and
the first hackathon are.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:22:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

We need to make the first hackathon AWESOME. More AWESOME than your
monospace font has ROOM FOR.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:22:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

uh.  
I...think we failed to schedule either of those

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:22:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:24:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...two holes in the ground. <dwilson>

"can I pick a date and declare that we're having a general hackathon
then?"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:25:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Why not. "Can I encoure you to pick the 23rd?" Although it should
probably be sooner than that.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:26:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I was going to suggest the 15th, but if we can get a geofft 22nd is
good too...

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:28:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Atually, 22nd is bad because it's interview-day for career fair, isn't
it?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:29:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right, hence 23rd.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:30:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also you should declare an O_NONBLOCK party tonight or something

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:30:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

er, tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:33:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

dwilson: Maybe you should bring CokeComm to the midway?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:35:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, if that's not already arranged, it's probably advisable to email
sipb-ec and ask for Midway reimbursements now (as we have resorted to
doing for the last few years...).

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:36:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

"But CokeComm has a seat on the EC"

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:38:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

1)  What's involved in the block-party?  
2)  Why cokecomm at the midway--just to have munchies to give out, or
what?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:39:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Touch 1/4 <kchen>

I don't know about recently, but historically we've given out cans of
soda to attract people to the booth.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:40:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, in theory, to point out that SIPB is a place to hang out with
reasonably-priced cans of soda andhack on rando things.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:40:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

1. Uh, getting people to show up, primarily, and maybe buying snacks.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:41:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Mostly so there's another event and more informal than the Monday
meeting

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:41:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Everything else follows. <dwilson>

I suspect we'll need quite a bit of soda if we're doing that.  (I'm
not opposed, though.)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:41:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

So get 96+ cans of soda?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:42:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

hmm, there are a couple of outing-type orientation events tomorrow
starting around 7.  Do we want to compete with those?  Maybe just say
"5:30-8"?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:43:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Actually, just go overboard on the soda. It's not like SIPB won't
drink it.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:44:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, we've gone through a fair bit of soda in the past

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:44:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's a reasonable use of $50+ of SIPB's money

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:47:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Let \epsilon < 0. <dwilson>

ok, so plan is:
-midway, tomorrow 3-5, with lots of soda
-block party, tomorrow evening, with snacks and soda
-hackathon, Sep 23?

Is that what people generally agree on?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:48:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I agree with the first two points, but am worried the third is too
late. But it does get us a geofft, which is useful.

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:49:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A finitely-venerated Abelian semigrape. <dwilson>

right, I'm on the fence about that date

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:51:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The third logician says "Yes!" <dwilson>

either of you happen to know where the flier source is?

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:53:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think the date is too late, actually.

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:54:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Man, I am so used to having the 'locate' command. I wish AFS had one

Class: geofft Instance: mail.d
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:55:21 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Velocity squared is like shipping and handling. It'll get you every time. -- Edward Tufte <eichin>

just change the filter rules in the cron job and it can :-)

Class: geofft Instance: mail
Time: Thu Aug 30 13:55:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

/afs/sipb/project/publicity is plausible, but istr messing with an odt
at some point

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 30 19:00:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

sigh, certificates

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Aug 30 19:00:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Dear customer, please set up your intermediate cert properly

Class: geofft Instance: reddit.q
Time: Thu Aug 30 19:17:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> But, he gave his staff "Atlas Shrugged." On a totally unrelated
> note, who the fuck gives away a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" in an
> unironic way? Shouldn't people buy that book with money they've
> earned through their own hard work?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 21:10:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... do I really have a caffeine addiction?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Thu Aug 30 21:10:26 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 31 01:38:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Surprise, it wasn't a caffeine addiction, my stomach had just decided
to stop digesting things for a bit. Which explained the headache.
Caffeine meely reduces headaches in generals

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 31 01:39:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Uh, *in general.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Fri Aug 31 01:39:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*merely

Class: geofft Instance: CrOS
Time: Fri Aug 31 02:07:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, Chromium OS uses connman, not NetworkManager? weird

Class: geofft Instance: NaCl
Time: Fri Aug 31 02:27:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hahaha, someone formalized the NaCl validator in Coq. <3
https://github.com/pilki/FPdNaCl

Class: geofft Instance: best-paper-ever
Time: Fri Aug 31 02:47:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"David Mazières and Eddie Kohler. Get me off your f-----g mailing list.
Submitted to the 9th World Multi-Conference on Systemics, Cybernetics,
and Informatics, Orlando, FL, July 2005. paper. Note: We never
received official notification of whether the paper was accepted or
rejected."

http://www.scs.stanford.edu/~dm/home/papers/remove.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: best-paper-ever
Time: Fri Aug 31 02:48:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess I should link his home page, for those who haven't seen it
before:
http://www.scs.stanford.edu/~dm/

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 02:54:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm apparently allergic to plums. :-( This should not be too
surprising, since they're closely related to almonds, but I've had
plums in the past and been fine.

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:02:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

D: That is terrible. Be safe. :( Is this from eating them, or from a
test? What is your reaction?

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:03:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(Like a scratch test...)

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:03:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

From eating them. Just my mouth and throat get mildly itchy

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:03:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

we performed careful tests!

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:04:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Involving getting increasingly less hybridized plums...

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:04:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

:((( So sorry. That really sucks. Have you noticed an effect with plum
sauce as well?

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:05:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Yeah, so many plums are sort of messed with nowadays (sort of like
gluten) and have wayyyy more sugar than unmodified plums. Have you
tried the test with organic non gmo plums?

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:05:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

s/gluten/wheat/

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:06:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have not tried plum sauce.

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:06:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

(Out of curiosity, but I don't want you to hurt yourself!)

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:06:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Most cooked things destroy most fruit allergens

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:07:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is from a place called Haight Street Market, which means I
assume it's quite likely to be organic and otherwise hippie

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:08:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I think all the plums/plum-like objects we had were organic

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:08:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

apparently a lot of plum-hybrids are naturally occuring, although I don't know
if these ones were

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:09:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think the experiment I want to run next is to carefully cut the
seed and the part of the flesh immediately touching the seed away. It
might just be a reaction to what is basically a nut

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:09:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Eat your carrots.  They're good for your eyes.
 <rnjacobs>

I would be suprised if you were only allergic to plums and not all other
stonefruit, though.

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:10:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I suggested you avoid the seed!

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:10:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you ignored me :P

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:11:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

rnjacobs: I've generally been fine with other things in that genus,
including apricots, cherries, and peaches.

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:12:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

have you had any of those recently? you did mention that you were fine with
plums previously

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:12:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think I've had cherries pretty recently. I'm not sure when I've most
recently had apricots or peaches

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:14:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Hmm, maybe go to a doctor and get advice on how to proceed to
*accurately* test what your allergy is? :P

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:15:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I did that n years ago. "Sounds like effort"

Class: geofft Instance: every-program-expands-until-it-can-read-mail
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:17:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

busybox includes a program named "popmaildir", to retrieve mail from a
remote POP server to a local maildir.

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:18:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

Allergies can change over time. 

Class: geofft Instance: allergies
Time: Fri Aug 31 03:21:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 31 14:50:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

customer, please stop calling us "Moka" ugh

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:20:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Sigh, dispensationalists

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:21:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

?

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:22:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

people who believe that God's promise to Israel is literally to the
modern state of Israel

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:22:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It is a crappy reading of the Bible, and an even crappier foreign
policy

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:23:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ah, yes

Class: geofft Instance: kyoki
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:23:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

I agree

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:24:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

1. No, I don't need your crappy backup solution
2. That was not nearly enough time for me to read five sentences about
your crappy backup solution
3. Also you splt the notification _across monitors_

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:24:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, I guess this isn't Unity, this is "GNOME Classic", whatever that
is.

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:24:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh?

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:25:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I got some popup message advertising Ubuntu's backup thing

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:25:50 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is the new thing actually crappy? It sounded like it did some things
kinda good.

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:26:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I don't actually know if Ubuntu One is crappy. I just assume it
is. :)

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:27:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think it can backend onto other things? (I think including "server
accessible over ssh", which is what I'd want.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:27:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, does it only support the front-facing camera? Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:28:57 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Compared to my current solution (rsync), it adds encryption, metadata
backup, and automatic backup expiration, but loses "the backup is
directly usable" (and "I've already configured all my exceptions").

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:29:39 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Also, it does some custom incremental with occasional full backups
thing, instead of just using hardlinks. I'm not sure which is better.)

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:30:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It's called "facetime", not "aribtraryviewtime"

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:30:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

:-(

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:30:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Get an Android device with both!

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:31:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The iPad has two cameras. FaceTime just seems to have no "use other
camera" button.

Class: geofft Instance: unity
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:31:23 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Anyway, I think my conculsion (from looking briefly) was "possibly
worth switching to, but requires more effort than I want to spend
now". I'm kinda curious about otehr opinions.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:31:23 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Steve didn't think you need to be able to use either camera, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: ipad.facetime
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:31:51 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Isn't Apple plausibly more enthusiastic about "no extraneous config"
than GNOME?

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:35:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Looking for secure boot hardware, found this via Google...

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/Questions-re-X1-Carbon-amp-Windows-8/td-p/847963

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Fri Aug 31 17:35:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not really sure how I feel about turning on secure boot in a
firmware update.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:18:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://renaissance.io/

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:21:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I'll be in my bung. <ageng>

Other than them being pretentious, I... don't think I get it.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:24:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

I was with them until "A three day single-track conference for iOS app
makers"

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Branched double cover all the way across the complex plane! <ageng>

from the schedule page: """but in parallel with the main sessions we
will have small breakout sessions for "birds of a feather"
discussions,"meet the speaker" sessions, and special hacking
events."""

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:27:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

"We intend for Renaissance to reflect that diversity and we will
insist that all who attend be treated with respect and dignity. To
achieve this, we will make some requests of speakers that may seem
prudish, but we think that the sacrifices that we make will be well
worth the benefit to the community." ???

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:28:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

Is that, "we promise to ask our speakers not to use Internet
pornography in their slide decks?"

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:28:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Presumably.  Remember that that's not an uncontroversial request to make,
unfortunately, in some parts of the SF hipster-geek community.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:29:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: BioAgeng: BioBro for life. <ageng>

is using Internet porn in slide decks a common pract--oh.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:29:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The Rails community is (in)famous for this.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:29:46 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/CouchDB_talk

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:29:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody likes a math geek, Scully. <mherdeg>

And 6.001 in 1998!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

...?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:11 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Not having pornography in your slides at a conference is
controvertial?

*is scared of this field*

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

MIT was -- as always -- ahead of the curve and a little bit different.
http://tech.mit.edu/V118/N8/aporn.8n.html

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I read it as slightly more general than that, but yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Lemur: but CENSORSHIP

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:30:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Here's the response from the creator of Rails:

  “Do you think porn is an appropriate metaphor to be used in business
  presentations?” — Absolutely. Especially in jest.

  https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1585870127

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:31:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

CENSORSHIP is EVIL, so don't you dare tell me things are
inappropriate!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:31:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's your fault if you're offended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:31:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm offended that you're offended.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Jabe, you're made of wood." "Then stop wasting time, Time Lord." <mherdeg>

Oh, interesting, this confusing-message digital renaissance epiphany
paradigm shift conference recruited Quora's Anne Halsall?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The nymphs are departed. / And their friends, the loitering heirs of city directors; / Departed, have left no addresses. <mherdeg>

(http://renaissance.io/team)

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yes, apparently so!  Which gives it some credibility in my mind.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Doesn't 6.001 also likely have people under 18 in it?

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

CENSORSHIP

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:32:48 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also giving it some credibility in my mind:

"Bill Dudney is an independent iOS developer, book author, and frequent
speaker and teacher at iOS conferences and training events. In 2010 and
2011, Bill worked at Apple where one of his responsibilities included
organizing and coaching a large part of the presentations at Apple's
Worldwide Developer Conference."

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:33:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

(As in, aren't there actual legal ramifications for showing porn to
people 18?)

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:33:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

itt: polite requests to be polite are equivalent to book burning

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:33:34 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

I don't believe so!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:33:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Those laws are a violation of the First Amendment and it is your moral
responsibility to show porn to every person you meet under 18!

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:34:22 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

I feel like MIT OGC wouldn't like taking that tack, but I don't really
know.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:34:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Unfortunately I think we are being a bit hypocritical here, because
"it's okay to be horrible if you're joking" is one of the things we're
ostensibly against

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:34:28 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

(I think there are may be regulatory restrictions on the sale of pornography
to minors, but I'm not even sure of that. As a minor in the 1990s I had no
trouble purchasing newsstand pornography.)

Class: geofft Instance: wut.d
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:34:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER. <mherdeg>

Haha, "Dear MIT Office of General Counsel, whoops, should we have been
carding on Reg Day?  - Cheers, LSC"

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:34:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

cool story jhawk

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 31 20:56:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I have a scratch-off card with a VMware Workstation license key.
Wat

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Aug 31 21:04:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Just cracked up at the Windows logon screen. It might be time to go
home

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 21:48:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

"App making is more than programming. It is the process of turning an
idea into a shipping app that is making a difference in someone's
life." This makes me nauseated.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 21:51:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I mean, I guess it's great. Shipping and making a difference are cool.
It's just so bald-facedly grandiose.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 21:51:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

So, only offended by the grandiosity, not the content. Shipping and
measuring your impact are great. (-:

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 21:56:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Sounds pretty typical for california startup culture.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 22:12:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, and that was a big factor in me being happy to leave last time I
lived here. This time I seem to be noticeably more tolerant of it,
which I'm happy about.

Class: geofft Instance: wut
Time: Fri Aug 31 22:21:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel okay with grandiosity if you are actually operating on a grand
scale.

Class: geofft Instance: !sipbmp3
Time: Sat Sep  1 04:19:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Agggh Asheesh is playing Stars _not in order_

Class: geofft Instance: isaac
Time: Sat Sep  1 05:33:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well I'm glad I didn't go home this weekend

Class: geofft Instance: isaac
Time: Sat Sep  1 05:34:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, we actually had fallen trees? That got closer to Lafayette than
I thought it was going to

Class: geofft Instance: isaac
Time: Sat Sep  1 05:34:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://cmsimg.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Site=DG&Date=20120830&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=208300801&Ref=PH&Item=2&Maxw=620&Maxh=465&q=60

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sat Sep  1 06:02:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

geofft, you (and friends) are likely to like this (might have seen it
already?)

"Please do not print..." http://i.imgur.com/uCBmi.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Sat Sep  1 20:43:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I subscribe to the New Yorker, does that count?

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Sat Sep  1 20:43:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

cf. http://www.loweringthebar.net/2012/08/esquire.html

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Sat Sep  1 20:46:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Ha.

Class: geofft Instance: w-m
Time: Sat Sep  1 20:46:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I had no idea jhawk was from New York.

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sat Sep  1 21:02:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

From: "Alex Dehnert (Google Drive)" <alex.dehnert@gmail.com>

Class: geofft Instance: mq
Time: Sat Sep  1 21:03:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I don't get why you're so confused.

Class: geofft Instance: facepalm
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:41:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> As the heart of Trac, trac.core​ implements a minimal component kernel
> that allows components to easily extend each others' functionality. It
> provides a "meta-plugin-API": every component can easily offer its own
> plugin API by declaring "extension points".

Class: geofft Instance: facepalm
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:41:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

*groan*

Class: geofft Instance: facepalm
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:41:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Whoo second-system.

Class: geofft Instance: facepalm
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:42:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's entirely possible that when it notices you've typed the word
"meta", your editor should stop you and make you confirm that you know
what you're doing before proceeding any further.

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:44:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This thing has a banner add on the Trac website:
http://www.fat-bug.com/

Class: geofft Instance: facepalm
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:44:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

i,i metacircular evaluator

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:44:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm vaguely intrigued, especially because my company is full of
Windows users and Trac tickets.

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:53:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What transit system is this??
http://fat-bug.com/templates/theme619/images/slider/slider_img3.jpg
Looks like a rubber-tyre system with a center guide/power rail

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:54:27 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would guess some airport people-mover.

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:54:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, probably.

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:56:09 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Complaining is Job #1! <eichin>

they're in Houston, and IAH has a famously Disney-designed people mover...

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:56:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Heh, I didn't know about that

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:57:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The track looks like the Bombardier system in use at SFO etc, but I
guess they all look like that

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:57:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: It's just than an @i(immense army of robots descending on the city) might draw unwanted attention. <eichin>

(well, "famously" should probably be in quotes)

Class: geofft Instance: trac.d
Time: Sat Sep  1 23:57:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That doesn't look like the IAH people mover.

Class: geofft Instance: *sigh*
Time: Sun Sep  2 00:17:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://trac-hacks.org/

Class: geofft Instance: *sigh*
Time: Sun Sep  2 00:18:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Maybe SIPB should just take over hosting.

Class: geofft Instance: *sigh*
Time: Sun Sep  2 00:18:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds... not entirely unreasonable...

Class: geofft Instance: *sigh*
Time: Sun Sep  2 00:25:15 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Argh, the apostrophes.

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:24:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://www.facebook.com/events/136002269876883/
(NSFW)

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:28:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

...

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:30:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm trying to think of a way that that's not dumb.

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:30:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://gaymendrawvaginas.tumblr.com/
(really NSFW, as if it's not obvious)

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:31:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As of last year, there have always been five houses. - ariels (Year 7) <wings>

Most of these just make me very confused

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:31:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: fourteen forever, if i'll make you believe <lizdenys>

wait, most of these don't even *show* a vagina.

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:32:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

unless I'm entirely missing something about how it's possibly about some
sort of awareness/advocacy thing?

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:40:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

geofft, thank you for helping me and ekate figure out what we're
going to do tomorrow

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:40:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

this has been very helpful

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:40:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

also how do you find these things

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:40:54 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

im so confused about whats going on....

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:41:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

preeya: Hahaha

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:41:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It was linked from http://sf.funcheap.com/ , which was in turn linked
from /r/bayarea

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 03:42:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

Oh! I saw that site on the same thread!

Class: geofft Instance: *sigh*
Time: Sun Sep  2 04:27:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Emailed the owner asking if he wants scripts to host it

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:06:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ThingsFall (a liability share from our apartment's account.pl)
Things Fall Apart

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:06:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vinegar. <ezyang>

The Center Cannot Hold

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:09:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Then I saw the fnords. <mherdeg>

i,i Are you an accountant? I am today.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:24:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What's the easiest way to split a git commit?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:26:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's not like Atheos will send me to Atheohell because I associated with a priest. -ghudson <ismith>

git rebase, and mark the commit you want to split as edit?  I forget
if that acually works.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:27:30 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

If it's HEAD, you can git reset HEAD^ and redo the commit. Otherwise
you'll need to git rebase --interactive.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:28:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And then do a ... git ... checkout? to get back to the end of it?

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:29:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My patch looks like
 context
+a
+b
+c
and I want to have two commits that look like
 context
+a
+c
and
 context
 a
+b
 c

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:29:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You consume pureed cockatrice. You turn to stone... You die... <ezyang>

git add -p

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:29:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vintage 1986 Pinot Noir. <ezyang>

and manually edit the hunk

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:29:38 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

I think git add -p has a 's'plit command.

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:29:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The bong hits the gnome! The gnome turns into stone! <ezyang>

split won't work, because they're too close

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:46:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Use the "edit diff manually" command, then

Class: geofft Instance: git
Time: Sun Sep  2 19:46:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

A cheesier way is, edit the file back to "a and c" only, save, commit,
editor undo, save, commit

Class: geofft Instance: i-do-not-understand-san-francisco
Time: Sun Sep  2 20:52:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

do any of these involve scabbards from a roman reenacting troupe

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Sun Sep  2 23:08:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Can someone explain to me how gclient and repo relate to each other?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Sun Sep  2 23:59:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

They are separate tools that solve more-or-less the same problem
(that git/svn/whatever really sucks at managing multiple repos). :-)
They're not compatible, so something either uses repo or uses gclient.

gclient runs on Windows, but I don't think repo does. It also handles
git or svn (though primarily svn). repo also talks to gerrit, while
gclient doesn't talk to any code review tool. (In Chrome projects, at
least, you use either gcl or git-cl to talk to rietvelt. I dunno of
anything else that uses gclient.)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 00:02:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

My guess is that gclient was written because the Chrome folks cared
about (a) Windows development and (b) svn, which Android I gather
doesn't? And so they wrote gclient to be a svn version, and it
gradually evolved a git story for people who use it. Within Chrome
projects, it seems gclient/svn(+git-svn)/rietveld tends to be used
for the browser stuff and repo/git/gerrit for ChromeOS stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 00:03:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(That's just a guess though. I don't even know if gclient was
originally written by Chrome folks, though I'd be surprised if it
wasn't.)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 00:13:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, okay.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 00:14:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/depottools
lists both repo and gclient under "depot tools", so I'm vaguely
curious if I'm expected to have both to check out / build Chromium.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 00:14:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I also have the vague desire to use something like repo for work.

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:17:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There's a new Stars album coming out in two days? I'm vaguely
surprised zephyr didn't tell me...

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:17:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "There are four kinds of Course 6: 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, and pbaranay." - ismith <pbaranay>

"jhamrick doesn't talk here anymore."

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:18:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But it's not just jhamrick, it's all of SIPB!

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:20:50 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

There is! You can get it for free if you buy tickets to a concert.

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:20:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

They're going to be in SF in October. I'm going!

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:21:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I feel like an album is cheaper than a concert, and less effort.

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:21:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, but I love Stars concerts. YMMV.

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:21:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh?

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:22:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I dunno, I find them a lot of fun.

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:25:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, it's $41.50? I guess I'm convinceable

Class: geofft Instance: stars.d
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:25:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

When do you arrive here, incidentally?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:27:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

repo is in depot_tools for Chrome OS. If you just want to build
Chromium, you only need gclient. (But the supported way to get
gclient is to just checkout depot_tools. It automatically updates
itself and whatnot when you run it.)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:27:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ah, I see

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:28:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... do I want the git version or the svn version?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:28:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hate version control

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:29:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Oh hey, there's a git one now? That would have been useful the one
time I tried to hack on it. Yeah, I don't think it really matters.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:29:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/install-depot-tools

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:30:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> create_ntfs_junction.exe

I'm scared now.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:30:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Skimming update_depot_tools, it seems to handle both checkouts.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:31:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Also, can't you do that with some built-in tool like linkd?)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:31:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Hee. I wonder what that's used for. I don't see it referenced in
cs.chromium.org.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:32:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://chromiumcodereview.appspot.com/9693033/
https://chromiumcodereview.appspot.com/10413056

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:32:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess, yeah, it's unused

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:34:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

commit a3fcf20924146d55ead90f71e8072786152fa66f
Author: ferringb@google.com <ferringb@google.com@0039d316-1c4b-4281-b951-d872f2087c98>
Date:   Thu Dec 22 14:19:42 2011 +0000

    Revert repo back to an upstream we control
    
    The purpose of this is so that cros can roll out repo updates at our
    own pace (including testing), rather than being at the mercy of android
    project rolling something out that may break our setup.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:34:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I like this concept of one Google team deciding that another Google
team is an incompetent upstream.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:35:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, speaking of which, this git repo appears to be a git-svn
conversion, so...

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:35:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

I'm amused by the concept of a Goole project code change breaking a Google
team's setup.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:36:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You hear a crunching sound. You hear a voice say "Crunch-a-tize!" <ezyang>

I hear being in the same company is supposed to help you stop this sort
of thing from happening...

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:37:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yes, a lot of Chromium repos are svn with officially-maintained
git-svn mirrors because a lot of people use git.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:38:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Ed: Ahahahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:38:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

What's the largest company you've worked for?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:39:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I'm told that Google is unusually decentralized even for a company of
its size.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:41:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(Also ttants: incompetent upstream, upstream that doesn't promise
compatibilty. It does imply that you MUST bundle and track versions
yourself, but it's a perfectly coherant upstream policy.)

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:41:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I hear certain AFS developers on this class would disagree that those
are not the same"

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:42:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What affects whether you're a chromium.org person or a google.com
person?

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:42:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

davidben: yeah, I'm just noting Google's tendency to inconviently change
things very frequently

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:44:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, the whole chromium.org vs google.com thing gets so confusing.
They try to run Chromium as much as an open source project as they
can, so everything's hosted off chromium.org (and non-Google
committers look like Google ones). But people not infrequently mix
them up.

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 01:46:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

(As an occasional non-Google contributor, this is now pretty
convenient for me, but it was a bit of a nuisance when I was an
intern. Multiple sign-on only happened towards the end of my
internship.)

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:00:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:00:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.questionablecontent.net/

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:03:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

D:

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:04:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

*rolls eyes*

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:09:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I mean, it's all true, but this is like the 9000th time I've seen a
rant like this, it's totally artless, and it doesn't even pretend to
have an original view or any proposal for fixing these problems.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:09:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It is basically just the artist venting by abusing his audience.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:09:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Fun fact: I was not wearing pants in any of those pictures." - [elided] <pbaranay>

While I'm not defending the comic per se, "abusing his audience" is
kind of the point of Yelling Bird.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:10:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's true.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:10:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: [The Ferengi have] a reputation for honesty and decency and reliability. - "Rules of Acquisition" <ekate>

As someone who follows politics, I have a special hate for this
bullshit.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:10:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

Yeah, I feel like Yelling Bird is explicitly there to be an asshole
at everybody.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:10:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

So I'm not quite as annoyed as I would be if it were any other comic.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:11:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

But ==ekate mostly.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:13:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I want him to grow old on that station, surrounded by people who hate him. - " The Wire", DS9 <ekate>

Yelling Bird is an asshole, but has not generally been portrayed as
someone whose asshatery stems from ignorance, which makes it hard to
divorce, in this particular case, from being the mouthpiece of the
author.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:13:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As I recall, Gul Dukat, we played one game, and you cheated. - "Duet" <ekate>

Ugh, I can't believe I just typed that sentence.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:14:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody ever had to teach me the justice trick. - "Necessary Evil" <ekate>

I don't actually care about yelling bird. I just like discussing media
too much. >.>

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:15:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ekate, do you secretly have a degree in Comparative Yelling Media
Studies?

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:15:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do you know what the trouble is? The trouble is Earth. - "The Marquis: Part 2" <ekate>

Yeah, but I try to keep it on mute.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:16:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:16:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

I think he may have been portrayed as someone who tends to put the
worst possible spin on whatever he's saying, but, now that I think
about it, I don't know that that's true.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:27:23 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

This *is* a comic about hipsters.  It only makes sense if the author
is kind of reflexively cynical about politics, or has enough of that
inner dialog to warrant a mouthpiece.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:27:42 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Er, inner monolog, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:27:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't disagree that this is the author's own viewpoint, just a less
filtered and more ranty version of it.

Class: geofft Instance: qc
Time: Mon Sep  3 02:30:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: She is extremely talented with regard to tenacity.  Though she has no other merits. <eichin>

also, the author is explicit (on twitter if nothing
else) about the yelling bird comics being his way of getting a day off :)

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 09:20:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

ttqnts: Star Simpson

Class: geofft Instance: google
Time: Mon Sep  3 11:49:13 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

> "I hear certain AFS developers on this class would disagree that
> those are not the same"

oh, i think linux is competent; they just suck.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:20:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder how hard a crappy rewrite of Zephyr using your favorite FooMQ
and JSON would be (preferably exporting a libzephyr-API-compatible
shim library)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:21:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

How would a rewrite help unless you're going to completely
re-architect it so as to eliminate the hm?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:22:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That seems pretty plausible in this scenario.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:22:53 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It's been a while since I've looked at the code, what does zephyr
actually use the client address for?  Half-assed verification or
something?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:23:08 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

subscribing.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:23:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

In the sense that all the servers have to be able to find
the client at the same place.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:23:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It uses it because zephyr is not designed in a way that involves the
client opening a connection to all the servers

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:24:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which (at least in this day and age) is the obvious design. Or better
yet, opening a connection to one server, and having the servers
repeat messages

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:25:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

So you're talking about a completely rewrite of EVERYTHING ,not just
the client and hm?  I don't realistically see that happening.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:25:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

activation energy, etc

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:25:24 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

It's only the obvious design if someone broke the internet
in the meantime.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:25:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, but that happened long ago. Note that by "connection" I mean
"https", since no other protocols work any more.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:25:58 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Welcome to the future, cryo-restored citizen #88695!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:26:10 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

;_;

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:29:24 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Didn't someone do something terrible with MacZephyr such that it sort
of worked behind a NAT?  Or am I completely misremembering?  

I mean a rewrite would be great, but I wonder if the effort would be
better put into making Jabber not suck.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:30:04 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

Yeah, just ignore the huge deployed client base and compatibility issues
and flag days &c &c.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:30:41 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I think it should be possible to make zephyr work from
behind a nat entirely from the client side if your nat is cooperative
enough.   (And for real, not Nick's hack.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:31:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think MacZephyr bundled a zhm inside the client. Which I've
considered proposing that barnowl do

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:31:04 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Did we stop enforcing zhm source ports?  I guess even there you can
punch a hole.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:31:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

jhawk: You're welcome to do so, if you'd like to, but that sounds like
effort. I wasn't planning on bothering to do any of those things.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:32:13 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

(Marc, I think, had this neat idea to stop enforcing zhm source
ports, but treat each distinct source port as a separate host.  That
way a client like barnowl could bundle in the zhm and each barnowl
would be treated independently.)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:32:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I mean, MacZephyr bundled a zhm because you needed a zhm anyway,
right?  Or did you mean it's an all-in-one client, like tzc or
whatever?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:32:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think it's easier to pay attention to the deployed client base, not
have a flag day, solve the compatibility issues, and so forth.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:33:53 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(It's an obvious idea; I think I came to the same
conclusion as Marc independently)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:34:48 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

I've wanted to move the zhm into the library for a long
time; relatedly, it would be nice if barnowl (& it's developers) actually
tried to cooperate with the library rather than subverting it.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:36:39 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The likelihood of you dying within the next five minutes is eighty-seven point six one percent. <asedeno>

?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:38:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Patches welcome."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:44:09 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Alright, I think you just may have motivated me to put out
a zephyr release that calls abort if used the way barnowl does.  THanks!
Please set yourself on fire on your way out.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:44:36 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Can you elaborate on "tried to cooperate with the library rather than
subverting it"?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:44:48 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

barnowl 52a0f141 et al.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:44:55 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

(as an example of what has me annoyed)

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:45:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Please do

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:46:19 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"stat the zhm asynchronously at startup"?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:46:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://github.com/barnowl/barnowl/commit/52a0f141

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:11 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: According to most advanced algorithms, the world's best name is Craig. <asedeno>

How does this annoy you?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

+  /*
+   * Code modified from libzephyr's ZhmStat.c
+   *
+   * Modified to add the fd to our select loop, rather than hanging
+   * until we get an ack.
+   */

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:19 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Yes, I know that's where I got the commit message from.
What's the "Right(tm) way to do that?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

This essentially makes it impossible to, say, move the zhm
into the library without breaking what is arguably the most popular client.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:56 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Uh, add an asynchronous initialize interface to the
library and submit it upstream?

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:57 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: It is incorrectly noted that Thomas Edison invented 'push-ups' in 1878. Nikolai Tesla had in fact patented the activity three years earlier, under the name 'Tesla-cize.' <asedeno>

Yeah, I just hit that line.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:47:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Pretty sure there is none. The library should export that
functionality sanely

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:48:09 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Absolutely!

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:48:37 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

But as a description of what constitutes a sane interface
for that, the barnowl code more than sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:48:44 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Fortunately, the most popular client also receives the most
development attention, and thus is probably trivially fixable

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:48:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, I suspect if you add that abort() call, then it'll spur
patches to both zephyr and barnowl, so do that, because both projects
need more development

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:49:25 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: According to Norse legend, thunder god Thor's chariot was pulled across the sky by two goats. <asedeno>

I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which such a patch would ever get
deployed.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:49:44 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The likelihood of you dying violently within the next five minutes is eighty-seven point six one percent. <asedeno>

That said, yes, it should be fixed.

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:50:24 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: No, I don't have a Solaris box!  Nor do I have an Apple 2 or a fax machine! <kcr>

Presumably with a "Breaks: barnowl < 1.x" for min(x,
unreleased barnowl versions)"

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Mon Sep  3 14:56:18 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The Fact Sphere is a good sphere, with many friends. <asedeno>

Oh, wait, I just realized I was imaginging this breaking barnowl
server-side, which is not what would happen at all. Nevermind.

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 15:23:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, pekingravs.com is available...

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 15:24:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

YKYWT

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 15:25:22 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

And link to whenisitover.com/weekoftuesdays after you get achernya to
add the appropriate counter.

Class: geofft Instance: fml
Time: Mon Sep  3 18:52:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Errors were encountered while processing:
 udev
 pulseaudio
 pulseaudio-esound-compat
 pulseaudio-module-x11
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
E: Failed to process build dependencies

Class: geofft Instance: fml
Time: Mon Sep  3 18:53:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh hey, uninstalling VMware fixed it.

Class: geofft Instance: fml
Time: Mon Sep  3 18:53:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

<3 computers

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:49:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This thing is ridiculously underdocumented.

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:49:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, not _actually_ successfully renamed from svn-all-fast-export

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:55:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but with an... oh my.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:55:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: That really wouldn't be water-bending, that would be science. - jaxxson <wings>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:56:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: But the rose is still as red, love, and the grass is still as green <kdrinkwa>

...I just tried to type "George" and got "Geoft". What

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:56:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The keys are right next to each other?

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Mon Sep  3 19:56:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm wearing it <kdrinkwa>

In fact

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:06:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I should really write us some Linux guest tools...

Class: geofft Instance: stars
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:18:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Ooh! re: concert of Stars and album free

Class: geofft Instance: ham
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:28:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 20:24:25 -0400
From: MIT Anime Club <mitanime@gmail.com>
To: anime-inquiry@mit.edu
Subject: [MIT Anime] Mailing list refactoring and survey

Hello,MIT Anime is changing its internal mailing lists.
Please confirm your mailing list by answering the first few questions
on this survey. We hope that you will answer all of the questions so
that we
may better serve you.
http://questionpro.com/t/AJHPhZOHXl [questionpro.com]
Best wishes,
MIT Anime

Class: geofft Instance: ham
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:29:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Really?

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:38:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What build system(s) is Native Client using?

The primary build system used by Native Client is SCons. For
historical reasons we are not using plain SCons but an extension call
Hammer.

The parts of the system shared with Chrome are also built using
Chrome's build system, Gyp.

We also have some Makefiles and some shell scripts for certain build
tasks.
Why is this such a complex mess?

The usual excuses:

    Inherent complexity.
    Historical reasons.
    Entropy requires no maintenance.
    ...

Class: geofft Instance: wq
Time: Mon Sep  3 20:38:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.chromium.org/nativeclient/how-tos/build-tcb

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Mon Sep  3 21:04:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This thing needs filesystem access to the repo? Lame.

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Mon Sep  3 21:32:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Probably faster today.

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Mon Sep  3 21:32:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Err, that way.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:51:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder where I can find mead around here...

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:51:32 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I would be surprised if you couldn't.

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:51:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oops, was cooking for like an hour (or more, actually, I think) and
wasn't on zephyr.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:52:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm sure I can, I just don't know where to find things.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:52:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yelp?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Mon Sep  3 22:52:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Google Maps?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Sep  3 23:00:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

/r/AskAcademia is so depressing

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Sep  3 23:01:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm glad I'm in industry, just in terms of general sanity, even if I
might secretly want to be working on more researchy problems

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Mon Sep  3 23:04:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskAcademia/comments/zak39/is_it_possible_to_take_an_extended_time_off/
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskAcademia/comments/z8gcj/looking_for_thoughts_and_advice_considering/
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskAcademia/comments/yx0z9/how_to_submit_an_ms_when_the_methods_for_it_are/
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskAcademia/comments/yyrts/need_advice_on_how_to_proceed_with_a_terrible_lab/

Also something about post-postmodernism.

Class: geofft Instance: else.zsigs
Time: Tue Sep  4 00:54:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... when did I say this?

Class: geofft Instance: else.zsigs
Time: Tue Sep  4 00:57:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Double rainbow marble ponies all the way across the lesbians. - haiiro <wings>

You say lots of things

Class: geofft Instance: else.zsigs
Time: Tue Sep  4 00:57:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: When there's nothing left to burn, you burn the fire itself? - haiiro <wings>

It is my job to record them

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:22:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

1F4A0 �💠 DIAMOND SHAPE WITH A DOT INSIDE
         = kawaii, cute
         • meaning of cuteness is based on association of
           glyph with shape of a flower
         → 27D0 ⟐  white diamond with centred dot
1F4A1 �💡 ELECTRIC LIGHT BULB
         = idea
1F4A2 �💢 ANGER SYMBOL

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:22:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

This is making my barnowl sad

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:22:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well maybe it should be using the anger symbol

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:32:41 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

The default style doesn't display anything outside of the BMP.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:43:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

How does Wikipedia not know when Nicki Minaj was born?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:45:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nicki_Minaj#.2A.2AThe_Final_.28Hopefully.29_Big_Birthdate.2FAge_Discussion.2A.2A

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:45:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm sorry I asked.

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:47:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)       fish }><  };;^>   !(x_x <mats_a>

and still the unicode consortium is like "nope!
rewind/play/pause/etc. are not symbols, because they don't exist in
any fonts" =\

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:48:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Don't they exist in Marlett?

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:48:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't know who this person is, but one comment there says a police
report recorded the answer.  Seems like that's a pretty solid source.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:49:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: All Horseshoe Turn, Centers Go Twice <kchen>

Might be more solid than some other sources, but that doesn't seem
particularly solid to me, given potential transcription or similar
errors.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:50:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Given what I've skimmed of the article and talk page, it sounds like
there are a couple of things (employment at a certain age before
starting her music career, recollection of a certain year of school,
etc.) that are more consistent with the '82 year and not with the '84
year, but the '84 year nevertheless persists in mostly-reliable
sources.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:50:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Presumably making the judgment call that the '84 possibility makes no
sense would be original research. We need a peer-reviewed publication
demonstrating that she must have been born in '82.

Class: geofft Instance: wikipedia
Time: Tue Sep  4 01:59:23 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

NB the police report (I assume there's only one) also says '82.

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 02:00:55 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

mats, do not U+23E9, U+23EA, U+23ED, U+23EF, &c count?

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 02:13:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Mats Ahlgren)                 -======}+(^.^ <mats_a>

Robert: oh, not bad! thank you. Sadly doesn't seem to be a traditional
pause || character (though one can use 2x U+275A). (ftr, there seems to
be an eject symbol and right-pointing arrow)

Class: geofft Instance: unicode.emoji
Time: Tue Sep  4 02:27:44 2012 Host: 192.168.9.38
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> The default style doesn't display anything outside of the BMP.

Sure it does, for characters that exist in versions of the Unicode
standard that Perl and libc are recent enough to support.
For example, on linerva, your BarnOwl probably makes some attempt to
display 𝔸.

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:55:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

noooooooooooooo

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:55:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Do i want to know?

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:56:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I want libstdc++6-4.7-dev:i386

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:56:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

BUT THERE ARE NO MULTIARCH -dev PACKAGES

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:56:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, maybe I want to build nacl-x86-64 instead of nacl-x86-32...

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:56:57 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"Multiarch: Now you have two problems.  But you can finally have both
problems simultaneously!"

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:57:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

++

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 15:57:04 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Nobody ever listens to poor Zathras." --Zathras <pquimby>

++

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 16:17:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

blah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 16:26:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

oops, my manager is now pointing out research papers. "as if I was
already too motivated to deal with Linux graphics drivers and Windows
kernel modules"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:19:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oops, made a ton of leftovers last night and forgot to bring it to
work.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:19:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

On the bright side, the Five Guys in downtown Redwood City just
opened.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:21:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I'm surprised they think they can go head to head with In-n-Out.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:21:47 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: Everything worth having rusts. <kcr>

In-n-Out is very meh.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:21:50 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Five Guys burgers are, in my experience, not fantastic. Good fries,
though.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:21:58 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: Everything worth having rusts. <kcr>

(Of course, I haven't tried Five Guys yet.)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:22:02 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Hard hat and safety glasses required beyond this point <yoz>

It's like the 10th Five Guys in the Bay Area.

Class: geofft Instance: seminars@csail
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:22:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This sounds vaguely interesting. I would totally go if I were in town:
<<
Getting the most out of NFS storage at CSAIL
Speaker: Garrett Wollman
Speaker Affiliation: The Infrastructure Group, CSAIL

Date: 9-12-2012
Time: 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM
Refreshments: 12:30 PM
Location: 32-G449 (Patil/Kiva)

Learn about how storage works at CSAIL from the people who maintain
it. Topics will include recommended practices for users with large
data sets on CSAIL's NFS infrastructure, how backups work, and some
behind-the-scenes details about how our storage systems are
constructed and maintained. The talk should be of relevance to anyone
who stores more than 100 GB of data on the CSAIL infrastructure. 
Students, faculty, and research staff are all welcome to attend;
lunch will be provided after the event.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:22:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Of course, they both pale in comparison to the glory that is Shake
Shack, but all fast-food-style burgers do.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:22:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Guys #46 through #50"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:22:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do you realize it's possible to have a lesbian relationship with your brother? - me [APO] <wings>

I tried Five Guys last spring.  It's basically In-N-Out

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:23:27 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: May affect the brain or nervous system causing dizziness, headache or nausea <yoz>

In-N-Out that you can get on the East Coast

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:23:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

<3 shake shack

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I miss shake shack.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:10 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> anyone who stores more than 100 GB of data on the CSAIL infrastructure.

Man, things have changed.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I don't think I've ever been there. Is this a NYCism?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:26 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

NYC local chain, since gone slightly national.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

"right, there's one in brooklyn now"

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

oi

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

i'm joking, jeez

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

<3 brooklyn

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:24:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I know :)

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:25:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I mean, there's one in, um, Miami? And maybe one in DC?

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:25:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

that's just weird.

Class: geofft Instance: food
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:25:57 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

miami got one BEFORE brooklyn did! this offense, it will not stand.

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:27:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: if you happen to have a god of persnickety electronics in your pantheon, please pray hard tonight. -scs <ismith>

I thought In-n-Out had all sorts of bizarre customizations and sekkrit
menu items?  5 Guys is kind of just one or two basic burgers.

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:27:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: If there's an infinite amount of numbers, you can name them whatever you want. -wings <ismith>

(And hotdogs and stuff, but still.)

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:27:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Flying IFR is a contact sport.  Sooner or later, you will need to contact the tower. - AOPA <wings>

Bizarre customs?

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:28:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hair loss is not an adventure, Piper. - ismith <wings>

I mean, you can as for ~whatever you want and they'll give it to you.
Not sure that's really a "secret" menu, but people do call it that

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:28:45 2012 Host: ALL-THE-WAY.MIT.EDU
From: Matthew Goldstein <austein>

~whatever you want for them has specific code names though

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:29:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Three people can keep a secret class if two of them are dead. - xavid <wings>

Yeah, but they'll still give you the combination even if you don't use
the name

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:32:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: you got my hopes up, and then twitter loaded properly. -melg <ismith>

wings: N by N is a thing, right?

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:32:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Only up to 4-by-4.

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:32:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Every week you're not pregnant, biology cries. - codetaku <wings>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:33:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's a recent change, though -- you used to be able to order a
20x20.  It came lying down in a box.

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:33:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cross Over Circulate <kchen>

I thought I saw some picture online about a 100x100 or so.
*looks*

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:34:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A rectangular bear after a coordinate transform. <dwilson>

http://supersizedmeals.com/food/article.php/20060125050438458

Class: geofft Instance: food.d
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I was hoping the first race I'd meet from the other side of the anomaly would be the Klingons. - "The Jem'Hadar" <ekate>

I have seen that picture before I ever saw an In-N-Out and have had no
desire for it since.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Tue Sep  4 17:54:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

/var/lib/dpkg/triggers/Unincorp
/var/lib/dpkg/triggers/Unicorn

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 18:55:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> I want libstdc++6-4.7-dev:i386
For what, the static libraries (libstdc++.a)?

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 18:58:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

For libstdc++.so, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 18:58:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That's what dpkg -S claimed it came from...

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 18:58:37 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The .so is an unversioned symlink to the .so.x.y

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 18:59:13 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Apple even shipped computers with them preinstalled for a while.

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:00:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But you need the unversioned symlink to do compiles, right?

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:01:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

yes.
(also, I mixed above.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:06:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Woo, found a subversion bug!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:06:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

For some reason `svn blame -g` is reporting the wrong commit

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:15:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

g++-4.7-multilib: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/32/libstdc++.so

Class: geofft Instance: multiarch
Time: Tue Sep  4 19:16:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

(metapackage g++-multilib)

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:07:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The proposal itself is fascinating, but this particular message and
subtangent is quite fascinating:

http://mid.gmane.org/20120905010156.GA7061@virgil.dodds.net

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:07:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if it is accurate to call this a failure of MOTU.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:09:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, anyone want to found the Association for Cruft Activities?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:09:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: On unclasses, you can do anything. - haiiro <wings>

Please do

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:09:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:10:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: du hexen Hase <mherdeg>

"Your mailing list must see monthly traffic from fewer than 5 people,
fewer than half of them students."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:11:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

"You are automatically eligible to apply for funds from 'your job'."

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:15:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

"Some people find the thought disturbing, even frightening. Like
Darwin, I find the reality thrilling."

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:21:29 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> So, anyone want to found the Association for Cruft Activities?

What. Also, what prompted this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:21:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As of last year, there have always been five houses. - ariels (Year 7) <wings>

Possibly me

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:56:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

O_o, adamc is teaching Java? How can this possibly end well

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:56:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

005 is broken already. Stop worrying.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 21:58:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You can't resist the temptation to mimic an orange. <ezyang>

Whaaaaat

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 22:01:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly. <mherdeg>

That would be really interesting!

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 22:02:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of INTEL IA-32 MANUAL. <ezyang>

I thought he was doing 6.042

Class: geofft Instance: 6.005
Time: Tue Sep  4 22:06:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's adamc and rcm.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 23:18:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Did this code... ever work?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 23:18:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of BEOWULF. <ezyang>

No.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep  4 23:21:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In fact!

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:29:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I .... kinda want this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=9588

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:29:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That is awesome

Class: geofft Instance: monoprice
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:32:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Contains wheat, soy, milk, peanut, almond, and sesame ingredients <yoz>

Why is this website called "monoprice" yet gives discounts for bulk
orders, I want to know.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.aptq
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:34:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

geofft: "Are you familiar with MH?"
asheesh: "Yeah..."
geofft: "Want to rewrite a version of MH that uses c-client?"
asheesh: "WHY IS THAT THE RIGHT ANSWER? FOR ANYTHING?"
price: "I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but I suspect MH is the
  wrong answer"

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.aptq
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:34:37 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

asheesh++, price++

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.aptq
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:38:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Okay, so c-client seems less insane than I thought. But it really
should be maintained, probably.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena.aptq
Time: Wed Sep  5 13:39:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

and/or covered in test cases

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.prnf
Time: Wed Sep  5 14:06:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Every time you [fill in snowclone here], a kitten that was already
predestined by Calvin's God to die, dies. Please, think whatever
thoughts you were foreordained to think of the kittens!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.prnf
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:37:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I want a snowclone search engine.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf.prnf
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:37:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You'll find happiness in version control... -clyde <ismith>

would that be "here's a snowclone, find instances of it" or "search
strings to find those substrings which are snowclones"?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:38:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The Extras discussion is now turning to the idea of _shipping LXC
containers with apps preinstalled in them_.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:38:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is the best thing.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:40:51 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What could _possibly_ go wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:46:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Zephyr from lizdenys  2012-09-05 13:46  (mr. november)
    the problem with SIPB MAIL SERVICE is eventually you run out of other
    people's ISILONS

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:46:46 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

+++++++

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:47:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The problem with DEBATHENA, incidentally, is eventually you run out of
other people's PAID DEVELOPERS

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:47:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Read what? n - YUM YUM. You feel in touch with the Universal Oneness. <ezyang>

++++++

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:48:05 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

==

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:48:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The problem with MOKAFIVE is eventually you run out of other people's
HYPERVISORS?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:49:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... right, I should go deal with replying to this VMware support
request with more logs

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:49:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The problem with KSPLICE is eventually you run out of other people's
KERNELS

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:50:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and/or EXPLOITS)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:50:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wait, the problem with KSPLICE is eventually you _don't_ run out of
other people's KERNEL UPDATES.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:50:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a potion of vintage 1986 Pinot Noir. <ezyang>

Bullshit.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:50:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait! There's something there you can't see! It's a Higgs Boson! <ezyang>

(re glasgall)

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:51:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I miss OpenWebMail.

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:52:04 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Is... that... IMP in ... Perl?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:52:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It's true, we don't.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:52:35 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(especially because EL5 is never, ever, ever going to die)

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:52:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

In fact it is.  Owwwww.  My brain.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:53:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... wait, really, did we beat RH to signing that stupid agreement with
MS? I guess it is plausible that RH's lawyers are more paranoid than
ours.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Sep  5 16:53:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/16863.html

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:11:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I actually think that's a good idea. re: LXC with app

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:14:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It is a good idea! It's also hilarious and doomed to failure.

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:15:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

One Operating System Per Program has long been the web dev dream. Why
doomed to failure?

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:15:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(And it's real if you live on Heroku, or "in the cloud" generally,
usually)

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:20:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Haha, "For those of you who get sent to surprisingly expensive
conferences, I'll be discussing some of this as part of a
presentation on improving Linux support for UEFI at the Intel
Developer Forum in San Francisco next Tuesday morning. Feel free to
say hi if you're in the area."

Class: geofft Instance: ubuntu-devel
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:20:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Honestly, that's basically where I was expecting that thread to go.

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:21:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I am vaguely planning to crash that conference

Class: geofft Instance: secure-boot
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:26:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I was thinking about crashing for mjg59's talk

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:37:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Chicken-Fried Steak
Chicken-Friend Steak

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:50:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

CHICKENS ARE ALWAYS FRIENDS

Class: geofft Instance: consult
Time: Wed Sep  5 17:57:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, what's wrong with that?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:10:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

O_o, we had our own paravirt 3D passthrough implementation at some
point??? am I reading this right?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:10:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ooh really?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:10:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(note that "at some point" is "6 years ago". It's unclear it worked.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:10:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

opengl or directx?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:11:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

DirectX

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:12:45 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, you totally did

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:13:02 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I think you may have tried to persuade me to work on it when you
tried to hire me like 6 years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:13:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Heh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 18:13:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, thankfully (?) all traces of it are gone from HEAD

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:02:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Does alternatives have a homepage?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:10:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:11:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So I was curious what else uses ld.so.conf.d (besides libGL). The
answer: ENTIRELY TOO MUCH

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:15:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

4chan now has an API!

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:17:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: He wasn't even a soldier. He was a musician. <mherdeg>

I wonder whether canv.as will use it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:52:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... ... does curl cache intermediate certs???

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:54:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wait no, does /etc/ssl/certs have a GoDaddy intermediate???????

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:55:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

what is going on here

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:56:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

OH I WILL STAB SOMEONE IN THE FACE

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:56:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

UBUNTUONE DIE IN A FIRE AND TAKE YOUR SERVER ADMINS WITH YOU

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

WTF DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CERTS WORK

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

cve-2011-4409?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:29 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

No?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

No one understands how certs work?

Class: geofft Instance: work Opcode: auto
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=cve-2011-4409 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

CVE ticket cve-2011-4409: 
The Ubuntu One Client for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, 11.04, 11.10, and 12.04
LTS does not properly validate SSL certificates, which allows remote
attackers to spoof a server and modify or read sensitive information
via a man-in-the-middle (MITM) attack.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... What happened?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Answer: python-ubuntuone-storageprotocol installs the UbuntuOne
intermediate certificate into /etc/ssl/certs/UbuntuOne-Go_Daddy_CA.pem

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:57:55 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That sounds like an awesome CVE.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:58:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

mherdeg: Good point

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:58:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

That's, um, one solution to "intermediate certs are poorly
supported"...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:58:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm trying to figure out why this one internal test server (where we
forgot to configure intermediates) worked fine on my desktop, but not
on BareMetal.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:58:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Naturally, python-ubuntuone-incompetentsysadmins isn't installed on
BareMetal

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 19:59:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Only the dead know certs.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:00:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Hinge (check Facing Diamonds) <kchen>

python doesn't verify certs by default, and it's a huge pain to get it
to do so, so I'm not surprised.  Although it's much better in some new
version of python I don't use.  (I forget if it's trivial in that
version.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:01:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That said, it's almost tempting to ship the GoDaddy intermediate (and
several other popular intermediates) to be robust to incompetent
sysadmin customers.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:02:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apparently you don't actually need to configure the intermediate if
you're only using Windows, because you probably have seen it and it's
a system-wide (or at least user-wide) SSL cache, or something

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:02:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Diamond Circulate <kchen>

In python2, you have to write code both to make v3rifying certs work,
and also have to do your own hostname checking.  (The former has some
support.)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:03:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Peter," 3Jane said, "don't you know he does it in the dark? Zen. It's the way he practices." <mherdeg>

Was that acc1dental leetspeak?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:03:20 2012 Host: lasagna-coefficient.1ts.org
From: Everything worth having rusts. <kcr>

There's a library callend Requests that does cert
validation (and a whole bunch of other useful stuff)

Class: geofft Instance: work.d
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:03:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Left Swing Thru <kchen>

Yes.  (I'm typing on a phone.)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:04:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It also lies when it says it does http keepalives, though.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:04:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

requests looks pretty reasonable. pycurl is also pretty reasonable if
you need ALL THE KNOBS, and is what we're using here (and what
Ksplice used)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:04:44 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(and uses)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:08:39 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

pycurl also reuses connections and is otherwise waaaaay faster than urllib*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:09:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why is Python's HTTP support so crappy...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:10:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Because it's in trunk.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:10:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

stdlib is where code goes to die.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:11:21 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

The stdlib is not actually the right place for anything massively
complex and relatively fast-moving.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:11:21 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I learned that requests lies about connection reuse while trying to
get some semblance of consistent non-jittery results in level 8 of
the stripe ctf)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:12:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

requests lies so much

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:12:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I even easy_install'd urllib3 and couldn't get that to work

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:24:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Twisted httpClient is probably excellent, although it is Twisted.
scrapy.http.Request is a nice layer on top, but no one knows about it.
Then there's the hip "requests" package, which looks awesome, but has
totally broken async "support".

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:25:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Requests has a convenient interactive API, but is also full of suck.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:28:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I really want someone to write a shim that backends requests to pycurl

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:47:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... did I get spam to geofft@lunatique.mit.edu?

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:48:52 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Entirely plausible

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:48:59 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I ... should take that box out of its misery.

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

X-Original-To: geofft
Delivered-To: geofft@lunatique.mit.edu
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
        by lunatique.mit.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id AAC2E65707
        for <geofft>; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:22:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mail.fae.com.br (domino.fae.com.br [200.253.24.3])
        by lunatique.mit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687D565706
        for <geofft@lunatique.mit.edu>; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:22:29 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
        by mail.fae.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C24325C0E51;
        Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:46:12 -0300 (BRT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.fae.com.br
Received: from mail.fae.com.br ([127.0.0.1])
        by localhost (mail.fae.com.br [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
        with ESMTP id wk6WFIgMwiXX; Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:46:10 -0300 (BRT)
Received: from paypalmanager.com (fixed-cust.78.33.202.213.quicknet.ch [213.202.33.78])
        by mail.fae.com.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 333D71EC8754;
        Fri, 10 Aug 2012 10:30:27 -0300 (BRT)
From: "PayPal Customer Service & Support" <security@paypalmanager.com>
Subject: Your PayPal Manager account has been suspended!
Date: 10 Aug 2012 15:50:50 +0200

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aww, I was about to use it.

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:23 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I mean, carry on for now.

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

*sniff* But I still use this occasionally.

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

See, that's why I haven't killed it!

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:49:43 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

It is also, afaik, still the only way we have to do barnowl builds :)

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:50:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Admittedly, I think echo is usually more helpful.)

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 20:50:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I've moved all of my own crap off of it by now, at least

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 21:22:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

echo doesn't have a public IP address, and no other MIT dialup I know
of has httpd :)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep  5 21:55:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Man, if I were more competent at running my own life, I would
actually be interested in doing help-student-groups-be-awesomer.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep  5 21:55:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Speaking of which, looks like I missed the 6:52 train.

Class: geofft Instance: lunatique
Time: Wed Sep  5 21:56:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... what is with /tmp/dkms.*

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep  5 21:59:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Like, Four Consulting++?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:04:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"yes, but better"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:08:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I give up. I am done with anything involving graphics drivers ever.

http://ldpreload.com/tmp/IMG_0042.JPG

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:13:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

It's a feature, not a bug?

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:27:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wow, big rainbow east of the Peninsula

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:28:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Is it a double rainbow?

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:29:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... actually yes

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:29:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

the guy next to me on Caltrain just pointed that out

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:29:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Is it all the way across the sky?

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

and how many people can you get singing?

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:30:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No, and zero

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:31:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

But you are passing up a golden opporitunity to make your life more like a
musical!

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:31:10 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

geofft. is it turning into a triple rainbow

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:31:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yay, git fast-import crashed

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:31:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is this work or scripts?

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:31:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Are you doing a git transition at moka5 too?

Class: geofft Instance: svn2git
Time: Wed Sep  5 22:34:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

scripts. I'll look into a 60k commit repo once I'm confident I know
how to point this thing at a 2k commit repo and not blow off my foot

Class: geofft Instance: rain
Time: Thu Sep  6 00:39:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, we had that too re: double rainbow. I showed it to price. He
doesn't know the song.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep  6 00:41:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Hey, I was thinking of finishing what's left of the casserole. Are you
post-dinner?

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Thu Sep  6 05:34:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/dahlin/Classes/GradOS/papers/p51-howard.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Sep  6 05:45:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/PAwOW.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Thu Sep  6 05:51:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I used to be a grammarian like you, but then I took an error to the knee. -peairs <ismith>

... ++

Class: geofft Instance: afs
Time: Thu Sep  6 08:17:53 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

ah, the "scale and performance" paper.

note that AFS used whole file caching at that point

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:18:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

you piece of crap

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:18:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

handle merging properly

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:19:33 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I'm sorry, Geoff, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:20:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm getting some annoying mergeinfo crap with an empty-depth
subdirectory of my checkout

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:32:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Heh, Hacker News is kind of like a bookmarking site. I'd been meaning
to reread
http://blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack/
but forgotten about it until I saw that the HN link to it was grey :)

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:34:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

SourceForge
SalesForce

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:34:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: ...and those who know this is actually a trinary joke. <dwilson>

{science, speculative} fiction

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 19:35:05 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Socialism! <aatharuv>

San Francisco

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:14:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... wait, there's a utility called ROBOCOPY?

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:15:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Apparently some people write "SFDC"... as an abbreviation of
"salesforce.com".  (I think they usually pronounce it "Salesforce".)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:15:35 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I remember that (vaguely).

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:15:37 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Drugs are for pugs! <paigep>

IT'S STILL BETTER THAN PERFORCE

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:15:44 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

We say SFDC all the time. "SF" isn't clear enough.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:15:58 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

git-p4 totally exists, if you haven't tried it.

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:16:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Is "SFDC" easier to say than "Salesforce"?  My thinking would be that the
latter is two syllables and the former is four.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:16:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, fair enough.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:16:42 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Drugs are for pugs! <paigep>

git still scares me, but I'm out of options at this point. I've already
determined that everything else sucks, so git  can't be any *worse*

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:16:42 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

We say "salesforce", but we use SFDC in email subjects and
ticketing systems and things.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:17:00 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Drugs are for pugs! <paigep>

I made a "Y U USE PERFORCE" rageface and hung it up by my desk

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:17:05 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

OK.  So exactly the convention I think I heard.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:17:15 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Drugs are for pugs! <paigep>

I point to it at appropriate, dramatically correct moments

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:17:45 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(From our salesperson, who is ex-Vertica.  There may be some
cross-fertilization here.)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:17:58 2012 Host: LOSTWOODS.MIT.EDU
From: Drugs are for pugs! <paigep>

Whenever I hear a cry of "Perfooooooooooooooorce WHAT ARE YOU DOING"

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:18:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

The times I've seen it abreviated, panjiva has used just SF

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:18:24 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I work with some people who think Accurev might be the
least bad option for corporate version control. I have not
evaluated their claims in detail, we still suffer with svn.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:19:32 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

I haven't figured out if p4 or svn is worse, I think they
are about the same.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:20:16 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I've been tempted to write a piece on what's good and bad about git,
where the bullet points for the two sections are exactly the same.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:20:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hah

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:20:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That's not how I feel about Git at all...

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:20:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, the confusion was "this is from SF #1234" in a Trac ticket

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:21:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

p4 seemed awfully grungy even compared to svn the one summer I had to
use it, but I can believe it makes up for in other ways.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:21:17 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

(IIUC it has better security blankets)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:21:37 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The pro-p4 peopel mostly say "it tracks renames and merge
metadata properly" and then keep repeating that.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:21:56 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Talking to a former coworker who is now in a corporate
environment using git, confirmed most of my biases against
it for corporate. But I haven't actually written those down.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:23:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

What are they?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:23:17 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Dej Sem Mozek <eichin>

I'd find that list interesting but it would probably
just be more confirmation bias too :)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:23:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Are the failure modes just a result of the size of the codebase
or poor scaling of the workflow as the number of engineers grows?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:23:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(I suspect that if we switch to git, we will have different annoyances
from the svn annoyances)

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:23:55 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

The person who confirmed them is at a new startup with only
6 people.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:24:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

p4 is absolutely grungy.

but in some ways it's actually really nice. i think i might say i like
it slightly better than svn.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:25:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Given that we're in the middle of a transition from svn to git, I'm
really curious what those biases are.

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:26:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Vertica... are they the large-scale, column-oriented SQL(?) database
guys who got acquired by HP and who aseering works for?

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:26:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yes

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:26:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Also Benmv

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:27:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I was very happy with Git at Quora.  We had a number of people
(designers) who were never going to learn to use it in complicated ways,
and we didn't really need branches or much distinction between what was
committed and what was deployed, so we just set everyone up with
branch.autosetuprebase and treated it like svn with better log-viewing
tools.

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:27:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

benmv... any relation to alexmv?

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:27:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Centers Single Wheel <kchen>

Yes.

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:27:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Dixie Sashay <kchen>

(Also, "blanche vandivers")

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:27:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

biological brother

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:30:53 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At Solano, with a handful of systems engineers who are all definitely
capable of learning Git if they tried and with a real need for multiple
integration branches so we can't just use autosetuprebase, I haven't
been as happy.  The history is often confusing and it would be worse if
we were more than three people.

Class: geofft Instance: SF.ttants
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:31:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also Vertica is a Stonebraker company, like StreamBase.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:31:28 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Huh. Is that them not bothering to learn, or...?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:32:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Partly.  For some things I'm not sure I have a good solution myself.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:32:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

For example, there are N different features that have been developed
recently and aren't in production.  We want to push a couple of them to
production because they're ready.  We don't want any of the other
changes.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:33:27 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I like how git works with a small number of developers who are
anal-retentive about history cleanliness (myself most of all).  It
provides history-rewriting tools for private branches that don't
exist in any other tool to my knowledge.  I imagine if you have
people who think of version control as a speed bump rather than a way
of life, you can tie yourself into knots just like you can with any
tool.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:33:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What they did before I arrived is a lot of cherry-picking.  So you end up
with multiple copies of a commit, often all in the common history because
eventually they'd merge production into staging.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:35:18 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think the Git Way to approach this is for each of them to be on a
scrupulously isolated feature branch, which is based on production (or
whatever was production when it started, an ancestor of current
production), and then you can merge the chosen branches into production
or merge them into staging first.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

Yeah, git handles cherry-picking horribly

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

whereas in p4, all you have is cherry-picking, so it basically works

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Which works, until someone merges the feature branch with unrelated
feature branches into staging; then finds bugs in the feature branch
and fixes them on top of that.  Now you're back to cherry-picking,
AFAICT.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

and in svn, all you have is... well, manual merge tracking, or maybe
1.5 svn:mergeinfo merging actually works, FIIK

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Adding mergeinfo to git might be a fun experiment.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:36:44 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Right.  And IIRC svn handles cherry-picking pretty well, too, right?  In
that it remembers which specific revisions have been merged.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:37:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(I'm thinking of mergeinfo here)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:37:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

hahaha "mergeinfo"
"pretty well"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:37:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hahaha, OK, well, you'd certainly know better than I.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:37:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It totally works. It's not the world's best thing, but it does.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:37:59 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Linux, of course, handles this with just a lot of cherry-picking.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:38:06 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

All the mergeinfo stuff in svn happened after I stopped paying careful
attention, so I actually have no idea how it works, except that it's
reportedly pretty easy to shoot yourself in the foot with it.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:38:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

Nothing I encountered during the 1.5 release process (which is the
version in which mergeinfo was introduced) ever convinced me that the
feature worked at all. Or at least, that it wasn't horribly brittle
and could be broken in non-obvious ways by reasonable actions.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:38:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(onto -stable, and onto each distribution's kernel)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:38:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Psh, you can cherry-pick with svn just fine!  It just takes lots of
typing.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:38:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... really? I totally just did some cherry-picks, and it's _less_
typing than with git

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:39:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's really easy to do the act of cherry-picking in Git; the problem is
in tracking what you've cherry-picked already and what you haven't.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:39:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, I guess you have to specify the branch name.
svn merge -c1234 ^/branches/foo

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:39:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But yeah, svn merge leaves mergeinfo; git cherry-pick doesn't.

That said I would have _assumed_ that git's heuristics about "has this
been cherry-picked already" work well enough, if you finish a branch
by rebasing it onto master/staging/whatever. Do they not, or do you
merge instead?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:40:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The fact that git merge is a three-way history-unwaware merge sucks,
and I can see that being painful.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:41:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Git itself handles this with scrupulously no cherry-picking -- instead an
anal maintainer (who is the maintainer of Git itself!) takes everyone's
patches from email and applies them on top of the earliest base they
could possibly apply to.  Or seen another way, with absolutely everything
cherry-picked.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:41:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasser: It seems to work in practice, and I think it's gotten better
in the last few releases. But if you see the whining that started this
instance, it is definitely not perfect and needs you to pay attention
to it

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:41:25 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(By Junio, from wherever it was originally committed, laundered through
email)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:41:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

i have heard good things about
http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
and the tools that support it

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:42:07 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Sorry, I got distracted by baby bedtime. The complaints of
the person using git in a corporate environment mostly come
down to people who don;t learn the tools really well are
sad and make other people sad, and that there isn't a clear
way to run a good workflow that also gives you
understandable history.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:42:13 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

When I watch videos about Accurev it sounds like a right
thing. It's a similar model to clearcase, but without the
historical baggage and with (they claim) nice tools.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:42:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, I tried reading that post but lost attention halfway through.
Should I read it again?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:43:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

geofft: Yeah, I think what we've done and has sucked has been to
eventually merge the two branches that both have versions of the commit.
That, and just not being able to find out efficiently or reliably (i.e.,
to find out from the machine) which commits in branch X haven't gone into
production, and which commits production has (if any) that aren't in
staging.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:43:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, svn handles that really well, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:43:58 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You lost me at "similar model to clearcase"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:44:10 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

With mergeinfo?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:44:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.branchmerge.basicmerging.html#svn.branchmerge.basicmerging.mergeinfo

"Subversion also provides a subcommand, svn mergeinfo, which is
helpful in seeing not only which changesets a directory has absorbed,
but also which changesets it's still eligible to receive. This gives
a sort of preview of which changes a subsequent svn merge operation
would replicate to your branch."

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:44:50 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

glasser: I've had the weird experience of working with one
of the clearcase core engineers, so I've only heard about
the interesting model parts.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:45:17 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Implementing mergeinfo for Git shouldn't be *too* difficult -- git-notes
already provides you a substrate similar to svn revision properties.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:45:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ignoring the command set, it's very clear in the data model -- you
just diff the svn:mergeinfo properties of the two branches, paying
attention to implicit mergeinfo, and svn's command tools have good
support (in recent versions) for displaying svn:mergeinfo diffs in
human-readable form.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Implicit mergeinfo -- also a thing git doesn't have)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What would mergeinfo get us that we don't already have in git?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

"how is working with version control engineers weird, isn't everyone a
version control engineer?"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I haven't really used svn post-mergeinfo)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:28 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

glasser: I read that post a while ago and liked it.  It influenced my
thinking for the process we try to follow now.  I should reread it and
see if it has solutions for my problems.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

One of you two is changing your name. Fight it out amongst yourselves

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

implicit mergeinfo is basically the cause of all the crazy complexity

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:46:35 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

glasgall: I think the ablity to mix cherry-picking and merging.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:47:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The nvie.com model struck me as involving painfully many feature
branches.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:47:12 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

That strikes me at first glance as a "stop wanting that" thing, but I
may just be too used to git.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:47:58 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

Our workflow involves a shitload of feature branches, and I
think that can even be the right thing. THough when I have
that I also want more automation around code review,
automated testing, and merging.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:48:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Right. If you have commits x, y, and z on a branch, and cherry-pick y,
and then merge the branch, mergeinfo knows that the only things left
to merge are x and z.

Class: geofft Instance: PERSONAL
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:48:46 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

svn with mergeinfo still sucks, from what I have
experienced, because it's hard to read the history, even if
it makes the merging part more straightforward.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:48:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Geoff: huh?

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:48:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

glasser and glasgall

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:49:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In particular, merging a branch is equivalent to cherry-picking
everything on the branch.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:49:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:49:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I thought athena usernames can't change"

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:49:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"You have a dementia principal"

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:50:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In the case where everything merges cleanly, and the feature branch
is a strict descendant of the branch to be merged to, then they're
equivalent in git -- so it seems like maintaining this property is not
actually crazy and might even be desirable.

Class: geofft Instance: git.nvie
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:50:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Rereading the nvie model, one thing that bugs me if I take it literally
is that we made 9 releases in July, and 5 in August.  They seem to assume
more process around a "release" than would make sense for us.

Class: geofft Instance: svn.d
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:51:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if athena let you
have >8 char usernames already :P

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:52:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> and the feature branch is a strict descendant of the branch to be
> merged to

That's not often the case in my experience.  There's usually something
else that's happened on the integration branch (some other feature) by
the time you're ready to merge the feature branch.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:53:12 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

How do you feel about rebasing?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:53:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It may be the case that as an implementation detail the commit
timestamp changes, but conceptually it doesn't need to. In particular,
in git, if you cherry-pick x and then merge, it will just merge y and
z, but if you cherry-pick y and then merge, it stands a better chance
of getting confused. This is weird.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:53:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

price: Right. I'm pointing out that in the ideal case, it has this
property, and not keeping that property in more nontrivial merges
seems poor

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:55:08 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

If something happens on the integration branch before you
want to merge in from your feature branch, don't you
usually merge out those changes to validate the
integration, and thuse return to the feature branch being a
strict descendant of the integration branch? I must admit I
haven't worked this process in git.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:55:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

We don't, at work. It might be a nice property.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:56:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

But the integration branch is a pile-of-stuff branch. QA tests builds
from a topic or personal branch, and then we merge to trunk, when lots
of stuff might have happened on trunk meanwhile

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:56:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

One could conceivably store a "base" commit ID (== the commit ID for
"new" commits, and the original (base) commit ID for cherry-picks),
and do something with that?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:56:40 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The way I normally do nontrivial development is to put it on a feature
branch, get it all cleaned up, then rebase it to the master and push
the feature branch onto master.  I never run git merge.  (Nor does our
release engineer; he just uses git cherrypick from master to release
branches.)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:56:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

adehnert: You could use the identifier that the Gerrit hooks create
for that.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:56:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

tibbetts: I don't understand what you mean.  I would check out the
integration branch, merge the feature, test that; and if it's good, push
it so it's the new version of the integration branch.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:57:02 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I want to chime in here, but the way we use git at ksplice is rather
not-normal, so I shan't.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:57:05 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Hmm, I've not used gerrit.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:57:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

at the end of the day, hopefully your 3-way merge works well enough
that the "cherry-picky and merge" case just works anyway

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:57:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

ghudson: I'm pretty cheerful about rebasing -- it's what I made everyone
do routinely at Quora.  But how does rebasing fit into a workflow with
multiple integration branches?  I'm not sure how I would do it, but it
seems like it'd inevitably result in two copies of most commits.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:58:14 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

I think there are pretty severe limitations on how well 3-way merge
can work in that scenario.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 20:59:04 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Perhaps once you have multiple integration branches, version control
is intrinsically hard?  My head starts to spin at that point.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:00:14 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Probably it is.  But I don't think our situation is any harder than
anyone who has to ship software that is stable and not the latest thing
someone committed -- if it sounds harder, I've probably described it
badly.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:00:33 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(It is harder than Quora's situation, where the latest thing anyone
committed can in fact be deployed if it passes tests)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:01:17 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The model I've always stuck to is to have a master branch which is the
receiver of all feature branches and the originator of all release
branches.  We might take a change from master and cherry-pick it onto
several release branches, but we'd never merge from one release branch
onto another.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:02:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hm.  So if someone merges a feature into master and it's not ready to
release, then basically the next release can't happen until the feature
is fixed or messily backed out?  That's not unreasonable, I guess --
people just know then not to merge such things.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:05:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess one obstacle to us adopting that is that we have multiple
components, one of which is the control server for the whole system, and
we have only one fully-operational staging cluster (i.e. other than
production.)  So if you want to test a new feature in the backend and it
requires new support from the control server, you need to update the one
staging control server, which basically amounts to a deployment of an
integration branch.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:06:24 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

In my world you can't test something without it existing in
the central repository. I'm also alergic to developers
keeping code on their workstation for long periods of time.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:06:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

=

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:07:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> existing in the central repository [vs] developers keeping code on
> their workstation

This is what a branch is for, right?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:07:32 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Not being able to test without updating a shared artifact will
certainly restrict your workflow.  Not wanting to keep code on
developer workstations isn't a huge deal; you make them push to
private forks on a central server.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:07:38 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

in that it's a place for code to get off the workstation and into the
central repository, without contending with other people's work.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:08:59 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

If people are having to push tentative stuff to a shared branch in
order to test it, you're going to (a) have a messy history full of
fixes to previous work, and (b) have people interfere with each
others' work a lot.  So I'd try hard to avoid that, but I imagine
there are cases where it's just unavoidable.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:09:47 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah.  That might be the relevant syllogism / impossibility proof.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:11:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't see a reason we can't immediately adopt the workflow you
describe for the backend, though -- we do have a way for different
people to run different versions of that simultaneously.  (The first
thing I implemented when I joined, in fact.)  Thanks for the suggestion!

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:12:21 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

In my world I have a branche like
personal/tibbetts/something, which is a shared artifact
(other people can see it and code review it or even work on
it if they needed to) but my work there doesn't step on
anyone else. It's that kind of a branch that my automated
build/test infrastructure works on.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:21:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> Right. If you have commits x, y, and z on a branch, and cherry-pick
> y, and then merge the branch, mergeinfo knows that the only things
> left to merge are x and z.

The Git solution is: instead of making commits x, y, and z to a
branch, you make them on their own new topic branches, the parent of
which is an ancestor of every branch you might want to merge them
into (usually your oldest maintenance branch).  Never cherry-pick;
always merge.

You’re allowed to rebase topic branches until the time they get
merged somewhere.  After that, fixes need to go on top.

Even though the parent is a maintenance branch, you’re still allowed
to merge the topic branches into a development branch before merging
them into maintenance branches.  (Git’s recursive merge handles the
case where some of the things you’re merging have already been
merged.)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:22:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In other words, the git solution is "make developers spend more effort
than you can successfully train them to on making their version
control pretty". Which is a solution that works well in some cases.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:22:59 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you mean "Git" as in "git.git" or "the canoncial approach for
using the tool"?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:23:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In particular, if you're an open-source project, you generally have
one or a few competent git people run the "real" repo, and they can
rebase other people's less-competent repos before accepting them.
Doesn't really work in a corporate environment.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:24:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Mostly git.git, because most projects aren’t large enough for a good
workflow to be important, and most others haven’t learned how to
effectively use Git merges.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 21:30:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

> the parent of which is an ancestor of every branch you might want
> to merge them into (usually your oldest maintenance branch)

Or better: for bug fixes, straight onto the commit that introduced
the bug.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:43:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

There's "git-cherry" for this, Greg, which works with patch-ids not
commit-ids, fwiw.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:46:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm.  That looks plausible for a start.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:46:43 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It's useful in the same role as using svn mergeinfo to tell you what
you've "merged" (cherry-picked) and what you haven't, but unfortunately
it is approximate.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:47:27 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

In that if the cherry-pick had any conflicts that had to be resolved,
then the patch-id will not match and git-cherry will have no idea that
the commits correspond to each other.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:47:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

git-cherry using Gerrit commit identifiers would be useful.

Isn't git-patch-id the same thing that rebase itself uses to
determine what has or hasn't been taken?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:49:07 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I think so.  rebase uses rev-list --cherry.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:49:14 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(--cherry-pick, I guess.)

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:49:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

At least rebase -i does that.  I don't know the rebase non--i
implementation, but I hope it has the same behavior in this respect.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:50:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I don't know Gerrit commit identifiers.  Are those something it inserts
into the commit message?

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:54:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah:
http://gerrit.googlecode.com/svn/documentation/2.0/cmd-hook-commit-msg.html
http://gerrit.googlecode.com/svn/documentation/2.0/user-changeid.html

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:56:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It uses this for two purposes:
- automatically figuring out that a new patch is a new version of an
  existing patch
- tracking that a patch was already reviewed across
  merges/rebases/cherry-picks

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep  6 23:58:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, but honestly if there were conflicts that were resolved, you
should be wary believing it's the same commit.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:15:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Hey, greg and geofft, want to play Mao tonight sometime at home?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:16:08 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

lol, Mao.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:16:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

roflmao

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:16:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

c.f. http://www.mike2.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ROFLMAO.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:24:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not planning on showing up home anytime soon

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:50:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://barackobama.tumblr.com/

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:51:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Touch 1/4 <kchen>

Why not?  Presumably the goal is to get tumblr users to reblog stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:53:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

http://barackobama.tumblr.com/tagged/gifs-gifs-gifs%21 is a great tag

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:54:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

You know, I wonder if they play that game under a different name in
China.

Class: geofft Instance: wat
Time: Fri Sep  7 00:54:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Split Recycle Along <kchen>

Having looked at the contents of that tag... I might somewhat agree
with your "wat".  Although that's consistent with tumblr of course.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:05:30 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Maybe so, but I sure don't want to, say, try to cherry-pick it again.
Having the tool just completely forget that it's the same commit is not
the right answer.  Having the tool accept that cherry-picking the commit
with conflicts resolved means the commit is taken care of is exactly how
'git merge' works, and that works great when applicable.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:10:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It'd be cool if git-rerere would keep track of those things, and in
fact learn them from the repo history rather than having it stored in
a separate part of the git repo that doesn't follow clones.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:18:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... really, the Ubuntu archive signing key is 1024D?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:23:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

If you want, I can make a colliding key and sign a PPA with it, and
then put something popular there, and start a rogue Ubuntu mirror
signed with the colliding key. Although sadly that line of attack is
possible even with 4096R I suppose.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:24:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(colliding key ID, naturally, which would "work" because PPA setup
uses gpg --recv-keys which requests based on 32-bit key ID, and
assumign add-apt-repository grabs all the resulting keys, it'll permit
all those keys to add packages)

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:25:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I guess I'll check that right now

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:26:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

Do you run the Large Key Collider?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:28:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Theres a generic attack on short key IDs (bottom 32 bits of
fingerprint); see
http://www.asheesh.org/note/debian/short-key-ids-are-bad-news.html for
a low-information summary (I should write up a more detailed post,
but there's also java code in the full-disclosure archives)

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:28:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hahaha, you should set up rogue-launchpad.net with trojaned versions
of each PPA.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:29:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Meanwhile everyone else is distributing software using

    curl http://... | sudo sh

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:29:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Gnnnghhhh

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:29:36 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I die a little inside every time I see that

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:30:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm. I wonder if it's worth requiring curl --no-validate-cert to
use http.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:30:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Hm?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:32:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Someone ought to write a tool which automatically trojans shell
scripts, debs, RPMs, and ISO images downloaded over http.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:32:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"A public tool, I mean." ;)

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

and replaces them with sl

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:32:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

And....my internet just slowed back down to a snail's pace

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:32:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:33:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

And it would find/replace any common checksum of the replaced file on
any text or HTML downloaded over http, as well

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:33:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

shawest++

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:36:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Weirdly this does the right thing (import exactly one key): gpg
--ignore-time-conflict --no-options --no-default-keyring
--secret-keyring /tmp/tmp.7yvw7Yda5E --trustdb-name
/etc/apt//trustdb.gpg --keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg --primary-keyring
/etc/apt/trusted.gpg --keyring
/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d//debian-archive-squeeze-automatic.gpg --keyring
/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d//debian-archive-squeeze-stable.gpg --keyring
/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d//debian-archive-wheezy-automatic.gpg --keyring
/etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d//debian-archive-wheezy-stable.gpg --keyserver
keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv EC4B033C70096AD1

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:36:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I honestly don't know why it does the right thing. Usually recv-key
searches for 32-bit key IDS.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:37:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

/me investigates further

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:43:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That's not really git-rerere's job -- it tracks resolutions for
conflicted files just as blobs, and it's good at that.  (I agree it would
be better if it were shared.)  Or put another way, it reuses recorded
resolutions.  This is something different.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:44:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What this *is* a job for is some new tool that stores svn:mergeinfo-like
information about the cherry-picked commits.  Which it could store in
git-notes, which does follow clones/pushes/fetches.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:46:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You can add new notes without changing the commit ID?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:49:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, HKP support in GPG uses 64-bit key ID if you pass in a full
fingerprint or 64-bit key ID, so --recv isn't vulnerable. Verified
with strace and reading GPG source.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:49:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

adehnert: Yeah, notes are not part of the commit object.

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:49:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Which is the entire point of it.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 01:53:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Are 64-bit key IDs not collidable? Most hashes are much longer than
that, which would lead me to sorta assume that 64-bits isn't good
enough.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:33:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

They're not trivially collidable. They are relatively easily
collidable; I'd estimate 2**32 * (5 compute hours), since about 5
compute hours is what it takes for me to find a 32-bit key collision.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:34:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

So it's "easy" (in the NSA/EC2 sense) but not "trivial" in the 5 hours
on my laptop sense.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:35:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It's also super parallelizable, and because the key ID is a hash of
public key data, you can farm it out without compromising your private
key data.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:35:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I guess I should run a distributed.net-type contest...

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:35:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Maybe that would be fun for people, actually, to run a key collider
that has a goal of colliding the entire strong set, and ask people to
donate compute time for the lulz.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:36:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Well, birthday paradox means you only need to evaluate ~2**32 hashes
to get a 64-bit colliding pair.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:37:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, but you want to collide against an existing key, so it's
pre-image.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:37:22 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Yeah, I'm answering the "lead me to sorta assume that 64-bits isn't
good enough." point

Class: geofft Instance: paperq
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:38:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Cells in a SALAD are organized into a D-dimensional hypercube.
(Technically, it is a rectiliniar hypersolid, since it dimensions are
not always equal, but this term is cumbersome.)"

Class: geofft Instance: paperq
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:38:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I cannot believe I am reading this in a paper about distributed
filesystems

Class: geofft Instance: paperq
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:45:36 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... SALAD? Also, what.

Class: geofft Instance: paperq
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:47:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you're still reading this?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:48:05 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

> 2**32 * (5 compute hours)

That's not easy even for the NSA.  For a rough estimate, even a cheap
EC2 instance (probably weaker than your laptop) is nickels per hour, so
quarters for five hours.  For 2**32 of that, billions of dollars.

There are economies of scale, but they can't be worth more than an order
of magnitude (probably less).  So it's hundreds of millions of dollars
at least, which is in the range of "possible, if the computation is
necessary in foiling the Iranian nuclear program."

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:48:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

More likely, of course, the NSA has some cryptologic insight that allows
them to do it with substantially reduced computation.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:53:41 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

To put the economic estimate in concrete terms, even if they have a
*million* servers (comparable to Google; so they probably do, but not
vastly more than that) *ten times* more powerful than your laptop (which
might be pushing it), it would take them about 400x as long, or about
2000 hours.  So then they could do that computation by committing a
strategic-sized cluster to the problem for 12 weeks.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:54:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I agree with your sketch, but I wonder if 1-2 orders of magnitude can
be shaved off my compute time. Actually, doing the SHA1s on a GPU
probably shaves off 1-3 orders. So then it's ~10M which is a different
story. And "this is with today's computers", which is the other angle;
how many years until it is feasible?

Basically, my main point is, "We usually ask cryptography to provide
much more strong guarantees than this"

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 02:57:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh, sure, even "possible if the NSA needs it to foil the Iranian nuclear
program" is less security than crypto is supposed to provide.  (Though
preventing non-cryptanalytic attacks at that level is nearly impossible.)

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:01:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Anders Kaseorg <andersk>

Surely the NSA would use a huge array of FPGAs or even some custom
crypto hardware.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:13:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Additionally I'm not exploiting possible chosen-prefix attacks in
SHA1, which might help. I'd have to go spend more time reading the
OpenPGP packet format.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:15:45 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

The vibe I got from your page, Asheesh, was that you hadn't particularly
optimized your tool?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:16:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yes, although it's not really "my" tool -- Daniel K. Gillmor wrote it,
and is kind enough to let me use it to troll people. (:

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:17:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

bedtime for me for now, but yes

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:17:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It does the SHA-ing in nettle, though, which is probably reasonably
fast. I should benchmark it and see how fast.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:22:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

FWIW, one is SHA1-ing the "public key packet" to get the fingerprint.
See http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880#section-5.5.2 and
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880#page-71

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:23:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Looks like one can zero-pad an MPI with arbitrary # of zeroes, based
on 
   An MPI consists of two pieces: a two-octet scalar that is the
length
   of the MPI in bits followed by a string of octets that contain the
   actual integer.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:24:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

So that's another place to insert garbage, and might be just as
amusing as mutating the timestamp.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:24:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

(I mean, good night!)

Class: geofft Instance: paperq
Time: Fri Sep  7 03:47:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah, I'm bad at doing this during the day. (which my boss rightly
told me to stop being bad at.)

Class: geofft Instance: resemblance
Time: Fri Sep  7 04:24:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/spr05/cos598E/bib/broder97resemblance.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: resemblance
Time: Fri Sep  7 04:25:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

how to calculate the "resemblance" and "containment" of files
efficiently

Class: geofft Instance: paperq.2
Time: Fri Sep  7 04:27:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"We thank ... Nickolai Zeldovich for setting up AFS ..."

Class: geofft Instance: paperq.2
Time: Fri Sep  7 04:28:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Not for, like, advice or discussion or help benchmarking or whatnot.
Just setting it up.

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 10:26:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Is PGP really only using a single round of SHA-1?  Wouldn't it be
better to use many iterations (like PBKDF2) to frustrate
brute-forcing?

Class: geofft Instance: pgp
Time: Fri Sep  7 11:42:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

It's just the fingerprint, or so they say. (The passphrase is multii
round something.)

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 14:30:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

MokaFive for iOS has Exchange support that does remote wipe of the
app, not of your whole phone.

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 14:31:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not sure we have a released product yet with that capability, but
it totally exists

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 14:37:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Next Stop: Beaconsfield. <stum>

geofft, did you just violate your NDA?

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:25:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm not convinced I have an NDA, and I'm pretty sure we've been
marketing this anyway

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:26:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Do you also intend to have your marriage recognized by the ASA? -kdrinkwa <ismith>

I would be s hocked if you didn't.

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:27:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

How did you get away with that / did your lawyers let you?

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:27:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The point being, you should talk to us if you / your company is
interested in this, even though we may not be able to sell you it yet.
(Customer interest will implement how much we bother to implement a
full-featured email client, which, while doable, may not actually be a
priority. It totally works as a read-only client at the moment)

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:28:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail."

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:29:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, basically

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:30:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, I'm sure I have an NDA of some sort, but we have more
important things to do than care about it. Like write code and sell
things.

Class: geofft Instance: everywhere
Time: Fri Sep  7 15:32:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Cleveland Circle. The destination of this train is: North Station. <stum>

i was mostly just trolling.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:40:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

From: =?utf-8?Q?Uber=20SF=20Team?= <supportSF@uber.com>
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?You=27re=20invited=20to=20UberX?=
To: =?utf-8?Q?Geoffrey?= <uber@ldpreload.com>

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:41:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

ugh, yeah, i hate utf8 spew in my email

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:41:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

i,i seven bits should be enough for everybody

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:42:09 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It took me a minute to realize you typed that on purpose, and I was
like "Wait, how the hell did I end up running zwgc -ttymode?"

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:42:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

?

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:42:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"zwgc deals poorly with UTF8"

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:42:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah but that's how mail shows up in barnowl too

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:43:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah. Someone should really write a style to fix -c mail

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:43:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Or not, given that -c mail is going away

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:43:32 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I was going to say, I have a fix for you, but you won't like it.

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:43:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

oh noes, no more -c mail :( :(

Class: geofft Instance: utf8
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:43:56 2012 Host: 192.168.1.107
From:  <fustflum>

-> "MAIL","INBOX","fustflum@ATHENA.MIT.EDU","imap.po14@ATHENA.MIT.EDU","","","Wed Sep  5 18:31:46 2012","NO","PO14.MIT.EDU","po14.mit.edu"                                                                                           
       You have new mail in INBOX.                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
       From: =?utf-8?Q?TCHO=20Chocolate?= <outreach@tcho.com>                                                                                                                                                                        
       Subject: =?utf-8?Q?The=20Official=20Chocolate=20of=20Brilliant=20and=20Thoughtful=20People=20Everywhere?=                                                                                                                     
       To: =?utf-8?Q??= <jp@mit.edu>                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Class: geofft Instance: utf8
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

that's from barnowl

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait -c mail is going away!?!??!?!?!?!

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"what the fuck are you talking about"

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

imap is going away

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about the Microsoft ActiveZephyr plugin

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

i forgot that that meant that :(

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The real lime. <dwilson>

yeah, it's quite useful.  

Some of the young'uns have scripts to zephyr about new mail with
exchange, right?  (I know it's not the same, but it's something...)

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:48 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Someone should totally write xbiff for Exchange

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:44:55 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

so like, is my MIT email just going to die?!?!?!

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:45:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You can use it with your Microsoft IIS Visual Zephyr.NET realm.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:45:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... no

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:45:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The only reason -c mail support exists and has existed is that it
happens to be a feature in Cyrus. The new IMAP servers don't happen to
support it. It's not an MIT custom thing

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:45:49 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be
new beginnings even for people like us. <aatharuv>

"_I_ will still have -c mail support. It's just for my own personal
cyrus install." 

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:45:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

-c mail is like a hard requirement... not an optional feature....

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You should tell them that

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Because he wasn't Abel. <dwilson>

fustflum:  Did you not receive email from Mark Silis yesterday?

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: mr. november <lizdenys>

we can run our own imap server!~

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yesh, i got some email but i didn't quite understand it.  i don't
recall it saying the phrase "-c mail will go away"

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:26 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: The average life expectancy of a rhinoceros in captivity is 15 years. <asedeno>

==aatharuv

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-c mail isn't even supported / documented

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

????????

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:46:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

thats news to me

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:47:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Uh, I'm trying to link you to zephymap, but phurst... renamed and/or
deleted his github account?

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:47:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Renamed.
https://github.com/lightquake/zephymap

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:47:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

what's that?

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:47:55 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't blame me. I voted Libertarian. <aatharuv>

phurst wrote a client side python program a couple of years back to
simulate -c mail notifications (I believe he was a member of the
first class put on Exchange by default) Google for zephyrmap or
zephymap?

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:47:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"-c mail"

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:48:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

works with an arbitrary IMAP server, not just Cyrus.

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:48:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

sounds like it should be run as a SIPB service...

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:49:21 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: Don't steal, the government hates competition. <aatharuv>

It'll need to have your credentials, and I don't know how one would
grant limited credentials to an account in Exchange. _cyrus_ can do
that to a limited extent.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:49:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

yeah! SIPB should totally hold onto everyone's Athena password!

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:49:32 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: A nanosecond lasts one billionth of a second. <asedeno>

Whoo!

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:49:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I guess I'm a maintainer of the one SIPB service that does, so.

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:50:04 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We /could/ run a sipb mail service and ahve everyone chpobox to it.
It'd just be a lot of work with next to no fun.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:50:12 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i had no idea that this exchange thing meant that -c mail was going
away.  I guess I can officially deprecate my mit email ;.;

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:49:58 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

I can see that ending well

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:50:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"that's the point"

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:50:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If we scare off the SIPB members, then we can actually do things
people care about

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:50:37 2012 Host: li3-55.members.linode.com
From: ETOOMUCHSTUFF <aatharuv>

I think SIPB should run, not walk away from the idea of providing
email service.

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:51:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, there's always phurst's thing or my thing.

Class: geofft Instance: annoying-shit.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:52:06 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I /said/ it was a bad idea.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 16:59:43 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Flip Back <kchen>

I have some barnowl style code (that I got from -c nelhage or
something) that deals with other encodings.

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 17:00:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

> sounds like it should be run as a SIPB service...

I mean, stick zephymap in a locker, document it a bit, and people can
totally run it out of a sipb-cell locker on a SIPB-run server
(linerva) by following SIPB documentation. What's the difference
between that and a "SIPB service"?

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 17:15:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Really we should have BarnOwl::Module::IMAP

Class: geofft Instance: =?utf-8?Q?yay?=
Time: Fri Sep  7 17:15:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

You need to type your password into BarnOwl every week anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 18:18:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyone want to go to the Ubuntu Global Jam tomorrow at Wikimedia?

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 18:18:51 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Oh, is that tomorrow?

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 18:19:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1918/detail/

Noon until 4. Elizabeth Krumbach will buy you pizza

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 18:19:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 18:19:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Hmm

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 19:21:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Ooh, huh

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 19:21:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Ooh yay, QA! That actually does sound like fun to me.

Class: geofft Instance: hackathons
Time: Fri Sep  7 19:22:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm _almost_ tempted to take home some strange machine from work like
our secure boot test box, but... I can't bike with it

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 19:23:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Argh, you need 5723 MB free space?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 19:31:42 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

That's oddly precise.

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Fri Sep  7 20:23:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

passing an ordinance (approving a law)
passing an ordnance (farting a weapon)

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:29:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I think the conclusion of this experiment is that Windows doesn't
actually work with 384 MB RAM and 5.8 GB disk

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:29:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A technical university in Australia.
 <rnjacobs>

...

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:29:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

psh.   I've gotten windows 2k to work with 32MB ram 

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:29:59 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Admit that you watch talk shows.
 <rnjacobs>

384MB was even more-than-acceptable with 98.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:31:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, this is Win7. The installer is hanging

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I was pretty pleased with my 32MB trick!  Had to do all sorts of nasty
stuff in the registry with not loading some services.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Did you do the installer on more RAM?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Ah, yes.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

I think 64?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Aha. My constraint is "XVM"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If I had more RAM, I'd ... use it.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:36:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

So, the modern windows installer won't work with 256MB of ram?  that's
kinda sad.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:37:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

IS this for work or ... Debathena?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:37:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

XVM docs (which... I might have written?) claim 512 MB and 7.5 GB.
https://xvm.mit.edu/help?simple=true;subject=Windows

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:37:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

work

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:37:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"What does Debathena need with Windows"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:37:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

What does G-d need with a starship?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:38:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you guys not, like, have a VM server you could use or something?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:38:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"At MIT? No."

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:38:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have a desktop that works fine, and my boss has an ESX box that
works fine.

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:38:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Why does it need to be at MIT?

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:39:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anywhere from "I want to test against MIT DFS" to "I want to demo at
MIT"

Class: geofft Instance: windows
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:39:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh. That's vaguely sane, I guess.

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:39:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Machine:  MOIRA5.MIT.EDU
Aliases:  MOIRA5THEFINALFRONTIER.MIT.EDU, MOIRA5WHATDOESGODNEEDWITHAMOIRASERVER.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:39:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

<3

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:40:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

... Uh.

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:40:22 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is moira the name of something in star trek?

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:41:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

No

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:41:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I suspect it was just a release codename or something

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:42:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

All the Moira servers have Star Trek pun aliases

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:42:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Machine:  MOIRA4.MIT.EDU
Aliases:  MOIRA4SAVETHEWHALES.MIT.EDU, MOIRA4THEVOYAGEHOME.MIT.EDU

Machine:  MOIRA6.MIT.EDU
Aliases:  MOIRA6THEUNDISCOVEREDCOUNTRY.MIT.EDU

Machine:  MOIRA7.MIT.EDU
Aliases:  MOIRA.MIT.EDU, MOIRA7GENERATIONS.MIT.EDU, SMS.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:43:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

I didn't realize until just now, but moira8.mit.edu also exists, and
the host record apparently dates to 1997.

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:43:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm pretty unclear on whether this is Star Trek-related, though:
Machine:  MOIRA8.MIT.EDU
Aliases:  MOIRA8MAKEMESICK.MIT.EDU

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:43:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

_but 8 was awesome_

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:44:25 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

(stark)
Wait, how did I not notice this?

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:44:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: A lamb, duh! <dwilson>

also check out the admin comment on 4 and 5.  (Sadly not followed up
on 6.)  "That's a completely different show"

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:46:43 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I don't even know what show that was off the top of my head and I'm
still very disappointed in them.

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:47:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I guessed right!

Class: geofft Instance: windows.d
Time: Fri Sep  7 21:47:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:04:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

1. wat
2. wat
3. petey's a CMS grad student now?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:04:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I can't even bring myself to mock you for Grey's Anatomy now. - ismith <wings>

3. Yes

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:04:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Junior assassin makes you sound like an overly-violent girlscout. - xavid <wings>

For a year.  Big Chris aka LaBounty is temp'ing for a year in his
place.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:25:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apparently flights to Boston for two weeks from now got more expensive
in the last two weeks!

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:25:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

How strange

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:32:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

When are you going?

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:37:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Career fair.

Man, timezones suck

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:37:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It takes three and a half hours to go from Boston to SF, but nine and
a half hours to go the other way

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:41:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah. Sadly, my company doesn't want to fly me out there until Q4.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 22:41:18 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(Q2? "October.")

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:06:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yes thank you $work's travel booking webapp I will totally stay at a
Motel 6 15 miles from Cambridge, that sounds fun

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:07:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Scoot Back <kchen>

A lot of web sites don't really seem to be optimized for urban
environments, like when you search for the closest locations, the
smallest radius is sometimes something like 10 miles.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:07:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ends Cross Run <kchen>

Although a travel up should certainly know better.

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:07:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Left Allemande <kchen>

s/up/app/

Class: geofft Instance: oops
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:07:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, it just defaults to maximum 15 miles, and has options all the
way down to 1.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.lol
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:57:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Kuhn started the discussion with an account of his introduction to
free software, which began when he accidentally hit a key sequence in
Emacs that brought up the text of Richard Stallman's GNU Manifesto.
Reading the Manifesto was inspirational, said Kuhn, who has
subsequently pursued a career in free software — even serving as
director of the Free Software Foundation (FSF)."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.lol
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:58:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://lwn.net/Articles/515189/

wut

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.lol
Time: Fri Sep  7 23:59:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Hobbes, look! There's a little raccoon on the ground. <mherdeg>

It worked!

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.lol
Time: Sat Sep  8 00:58:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

That's kind of how I understood and appreciated free software, except
I did so intentionally and not due to the C-h vs. backspace troll wars
of the '90s.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:34:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

From elsewhere, a warmup to the pointer challenge:
/mit/geofft/Public/char-star.c
http://ldpreload.com/p/char-star.c

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:35:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Predict and explain the behavior without compiling or running it.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:35:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(no spoilers please if you already know the answer)

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:37:28 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Heh, cute.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:39:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Huh. Having run it it did _almost_ what I thought it would. Although
maybe it did exactly what I thought but looks different slightly.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:43:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The precise behavior is dependent on exactly how many spare demons the
compiler has in your nose, but I'll point out I got different results
with a string longer than "Hello world".

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:44:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Ia! Ia! Do you want to get coffee fhtagn! -geofft <ismith>

... nose demons.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:45:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://catb.org/jargon/html/N/nasal-demons.html

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:46:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Wait, Andrew, are you describing the Guild or the UA? -pbaranay <ismith>

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:46:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...the jargon file strikes again, much harder than anticipated.

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:48:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anders points out correctly in personals that I'm assuming the
compiler's "undefined" behaior is bounded in certain ways (that are
true in practice) -- it could decide to break the entire program,
though I know of no compiler that does. That's basically the point of
the "nasal demons" claim

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:58:18 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Infection - Obsession - Challenge - Chase Scene - Denoument <eichin>

hah "the C compiler ... then MAY itself cause demons to
  fly from your nose (which, by the way, could well BE the documented
  diagnostic message)"

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 01:58:47 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: open source is love <eichin>

i,i could be worse - could be #pragma

Class: geofft Instance: C
Time: Sat Sep  8 02:35:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

__attribute__((__nasaldemon__))

Class: geofft Instance: /r/christianity
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:09:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

> "Jesus Loves My Political Opponents More Than I Love Anyone"
> —unfortunately nonexistent bumper sticker

Class: geofft Instance: /r/christianity
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:09:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

make it!

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:35:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Blah, I wish I could read New Testament Greek

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:36:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I would be much better at proving someone Wrong On The Internet if I
could argue about 1 Corinthians in the original Greek.

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:40:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: The theory is that if we keep telling Halftime he's writing it, he'll actually write it. -xavid <ismith>

It's really just a few hundred words, isn't it?

Class: geofft Instance: reddit
Time: Sat Sep  8 03:49:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It turns out that pasting each word into a search engine mostly
substitutes.

Class: geofft Instance: pquimby
Time: Sat Sep  8 14:19:54 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Otherwise, you're dead. Or... whatever." --tlp <pquimby>

geofft, tell me a story.

Class: geofft Instance: pquimby
Time: Sat Sep  8 14:23:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Once upon a time there was a cell phone named pquimby who charged the
student life fee after the first six months of city boy failure. If
ubufox is not installed, dpkg-query returns non-zero if a package and
I don't know where it is from.

Class: geofft Instance: pquimby
Time: Sat Sep  8 14:24:16 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "It's not stupid. It's advanced." --Invader Zim <pquimby>

Keep your day job.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sat Sep  8 14:35:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> Wikimedia for Ubuntu hackathon thingy

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:28:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

\exists zsync

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:28:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Description-en: client-side implementation of the rsync algorithm
 zsync is a file transfer program to download files from
 remote web servers. If a previous version of a file is available
 locally, zsync will only download changed parts and hereby
 minimise the download volume. The algorithm is the same as used
 by rsync(1), but zsync does not require any server software
 (apart from a web server), nor does it need shell access.
 Instead, it uses a control file (.zsync file) that describes the
 file to be downloaded, which it uses to determine the blocks to
 fetch. This file is created once on the server (and not for each
 request) and sits next to actual file to download

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:28:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Yeah, yay zsync.

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:32:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (What does it mean http://t.co/aGGvbof9) <glasser>

i interpreted that as rsync over zephyr

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:32:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

that would be excellent.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:33:39 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Is that a new logo?

Class: geofft Instance: oooh
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:37:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

I used to be a big conoisseur of download mechanisms.
http://www.klomp.org/snark/ was a cool way to torrent on random Linux
machines in 2003 without installing a big Python bundle.

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:37:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, that's just the Workstation logo, apparently

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:41:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

geofft@leveret:~$ vmware-ping 4.2.2.2
Unable to socket: Operation not permitted

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:41:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

UNABLE TO SOCKET

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:42:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'M SORRY DAVE, I CAN'T SOCKET

Class: geofft Instance: vmware
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:42:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

hush

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 15:59:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

[152485.358992] scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access     CENTON   CENTON USB
        PQ: 0 ANSI: 4
[152485.360465] sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 0
[152485.361260] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] 71776119061217281 512-byte logical
blocks: (18.3 EB/15.8 EiB)

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:01:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... how do you even pronounce that? ebibytes?

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:02:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Exbibyte, apparently.

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:02:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE    UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  9 Power_On_Hours  0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age Always       -       205969452541786

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:02:33 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Penfold, shush. - dangermouse
 <rnjacobs>

Aww. If it'd been ebibyte then it would have been what you do when you get
shrimp sushi.

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:08:32 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wow. re: sushi

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:10:26 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A broken metronome sits here, it's needle off to one side.
 <rnjacobs>

<bow>

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:13:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

On kernel 3.2, not 3.4:
[  434.188957] scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access     CENTON   CENTON USB
       PQ: 0 ANSI: 4
[  434.191291] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] 125337600 512-byte logical blocks:
(64.1 GB/59.7 GiB)

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:14:31 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

$ dc -e 16o71776119061217281p
FF000000000001

"oops"

Class: geofft Instance: debuntu
Time: Sat Sep  8 16:26:17 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

debuntu?

Class: geofft Instance: ubiquity
Time: Sat Sep  8 17:43:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

  * Remove Python 2 support. We aren't going back now.
  * Remove the rest of the long-dead PS3 port.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 17:58:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 17:58:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"XIDs are 29 bits for some inexplicable lisp-related reason."

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 17:58:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Right now most X servers have a 256 client limit" ... really?

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 17:59:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yeah, that page has been there for a while. Though I think X12 is
spelled "Wayland" these days. :-)

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:00:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I want to say someone (Red Hat?) once patched it to up the give more
bits to the client number, but it broke stuff.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:00:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

LISP cons cells are 32 bits, with 13 bits for car, 13 bits for cdr, 3
bits for a tag, and 3 bits for... something else, right?

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:00:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Er, which lisp?

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:01:09 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

My assumption was lisp fixnums in whatever implementation were 29
bits, since it was a 32-bit machine with 3-bit tags.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:01:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

probably maclisp or something

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:01:25 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

"Good question." Any? I have no idea which lisp I may or may not have
remembered hearing this about.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:01:46 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I thought I recalled that bit breakdown for some lisp, though.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:01:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Whoa.
Maximum number of clients reachedError: Can't open display: :0

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:02:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Tested by running 200-someting xeyes)

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:02:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Yyyyyyup. :-) Isn't X the best thing ever?

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:02:20 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

13 bits seems uselessly small.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:03:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

I'd just assumed it was just a generic "lisps like to reserve a few
bits for a tag" reasons, though maybe they had a particular one in
mind.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:03:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm actually moderately surprised nobody hits the 256-client limit in
practice

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:04:14 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

Given the historical context, I assume it was whichever specific lisp
was prominent at MIT at the time, which I assume was MacLisp.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:04:48 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But I'm making this all up.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:05:06 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But I'd be surprised if they wasted three bits on general principle
instead of because they had a specific use case.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:05:40 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

geofft: I suspect that people tend live ~entirely in some subset of
browser, terminal, and emacs these days helps hide this problem.

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Sat Sep  8 18:06:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_and_CDR#Etymology suggests
s/13/15/ and this was on an IBM 704.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep  8 23:23:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wonder if there are any awesome Stanford classes I should crash
this term

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep  8 23:40:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Conclusion: Not particularly, and of the things that are, they're all
on Coursera or something.

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 03:16:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

https://live.gnome.org/GnomeCookbook

Class: geofft Instance: timecube
Time: Sun Sep  9 03:17:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

http://www.lib.hcu.edu.tw/journal/files/CAS/CAS0206.pdf

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 11:54:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ignoring the recursion of this class, this sounds like tons of fun,
actually:
http://venturelab.stanford.edu/education

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:37:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

libdpkg-perl might just be the worst software ever

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:43:45 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Worse than Windows? Worse than UEFI?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:46:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... chocolate rain?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:47:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Windows and UEFI both, like, do things.

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:51:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Really?  The bio screams 'self-important windbag' to me.

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:53:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh, I totally did not read the full bio. I saw the University of
Phoenix experience, which legitimizes him in my eyes

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:53:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

but there's an argument that director of IT for University of Phoenix
doesn't actually count.

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:54:15 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Wait, University of Phoenix is a real thing?  I thought they were a
borderline diploma-mill for-profit or something?

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:56:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They're certainly not a diploma mill, as I'd use the word. They are
for-profit.

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:57:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

There's a sense that they're less legitimate than a Real University
where the faculty are underpaid and have better things to do than
teach, and the students need to actually show up to a physical
building, but I'm not sure, first, how much of that is unwarranted
conservatism on the part of academia, and second, whether the second
part is true any more now that they have physical campuses.

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:58:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

*nod*

Class: geofft Instance: online-stanford-classes
Time: Sun Sep  9 12:59:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I wouldn't be a grad student there, or take a faculty position there
expecting to do any research at all, but the same is true of, like,
Olin. And arguably edX too. So it's just a question of academic rigor,
and my understanding is that it _exists_, unlike a diploma mill, but
may not be as strong as your favorite Ivy

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 13:28:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

waking up at 7:50 was arguably a mistake

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 13:30:24 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Crowd surfing the line to a G&S show" --pquimby <pquimby>

AM or PM?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 13:32:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

AM

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 13:39:02 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Sorry, I didn't take "Summon Shopvac" when I rested." --geofft <pquimby>

Why is it a mistake?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 13:39:16 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "With great power comes great responsibility and slow computing." --tlp <pquimby>

Isn't this like the healthiest thing you've done in months?

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Sun Sep  9 14:38:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://fauxphilnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/kripke-resigns-after-allegations-of-academic-fraud/

Class: geofft Instance: lol
Time: Sun Sep  9 14:47:24 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

Haha, I didn't catch the domain name and thought this was serious at
first.

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:19:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wait, this isn't is a metaphor, but actually a cookbook! I was
confused and thought it was like the Python Cookbook.

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:20:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: An Abelian grape. <dwilson>

"hey asheesh, want to try python?"

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:20:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Sadly I missed lizdeny's famous party

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:33:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, apparently!

Class: geofft Instance: what-is-going-on-here
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:33:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(that it is an actual cookbook of food)

Class: geofft Instance: words
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:39:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yashar-hedayat/a-message-to-women-from-a_1_b_958859.html

Huh.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:42:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 16:42:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:33:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh right, lunch

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:33:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Also, I think the biggest problem with waking up super-early and not
having anything to do until evening is the lack of timeboxing

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:37:49 2012 Host: beautiful-katamari.csail.mit.edu
From: Everything worth having rusts. <kcr>

timeboxing?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:45:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It's 8 AM and I go "I don't have to be anywhere until 6" and sit on my
sofa punting all day.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:46:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The inverse of that is why public transit is one of the places I'm
most productive

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:46:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

make to do lists!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:46:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

that's how I get things done

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:46:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have so many to-do lists :-(

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:47:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The one I have at work is actually reasonably productive, but I never
find it works for personal stuff, possibly through lack of a
reasonable system for them.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:47:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

yeah, that's hard

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:48:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

what I usually do is when I'm falling asleep the night before, I make a short
list of things I need to do the next day

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:48:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Haha, I just looked at my most recent to-do list. Apparently I should
schedule myself regular ASA office hours.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:48:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ha!

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:49:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

make must-do lists

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:49:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Huh. That might be part of it

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:49:42 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

what might be part of it?

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:49:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

my to-do lists tend to get filled with "oh, it would be nifty if..."
tasks

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:51:07 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

One of the key techniques to using todo lists is that you need to
have one list that is *only* allowed to contain things that are
immediately actionable.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:51:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

ah, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:51:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

== nelhage

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:51:54 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

If you're using a software system, this *can* just be some kind of
tag or something, but you need to make sure it's easy to distinguish,
and easy to just view that list.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:52:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They're all immediately actionable! I could write now decide to start
writing my portion of the XVM whitepaper that we promised to get to the
Kerberos Consortium four years ago.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:52:33 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

I may even mean s/immediately actionable/completable in one sitting/

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:52:49 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

And also "that you actually intend to do"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:53:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess "fix Debian meta-metapackage problem" is not actionable,
since I have no idea what I meant by that.

Which brings to mind one problem with the single-wiki-page approach
at work, which is that it's a mess of "things I need to write down or
I'll forget" and "an actual thought-through list of things worth
doing".

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:54:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

... I really wonder what I meant by that.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:55:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

Another thing that is useful is to have someone who expects you to
do the thing by a certain time.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:57:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That has two problems:
- If the expectation is just "this weekend", it doesn't break down
into "right now" (hence wanting timeboxing on the order of halves of
hours)
- Nobody expects me to e.g. do laundry

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 18:58:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So I'll just punt on the Internet forever, realize at about 2 AM I
should get some things done before Monday, realize at 9 AM that I have
no clean clothes (which people _do_ expect me to have), and do laundry
then. Which, technically, counts as getting things done, but...

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:00:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> somewhere with food

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:03:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Thanks to you guys I just cleaned the bathtub :)

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:39:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Ha

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:39:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"I should do that"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:48:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wait, you want two years of experience in real-time C, _and_
Wireshark, _and_ AJAX?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:48:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

That is moderately ambitious

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:52:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What are tehy building?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:52:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"a new product that helps kids manage their asthma medication"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:53:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Because, you know, little kids need embedded hard-real-time JQuery

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 19:58:23 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: sometimes we talked about going into space, but no, there's lightening there too
 <rnjacobs>

Realtime C + wireshark is not entirely unreasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: debhelperq
Time: Sun Sep  9 20:02:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"If dh_installman seems to install a man page into a directory like
/usr/share/man/pl/man1/, that is because your program has a name like
foo.pl, and dh_installman assumes that means it is translated into
Polish.  Use --language=C to avoid this."

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep  9 20:07:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I just Googled the location of something that is literally across the
street from me.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Sun Sep  9 20:07:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(And closed 7 minutes ago.)

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Sun Sep  9 20:34:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

==rnjacobs.  asking for the ajax is a bit much though.

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Sun Sep  9 20:43:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

ISn't one of things that you've mentioned for todo lists "Prioritize
them, so there's always a small handful of things that it makes sense
to do next".

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:51:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

http://stevehanov.ca/blog/index.php?id=56

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:52:07 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe Colosimo <colosimo>

"resume more than 3 pages long?"  What ever happened to "resume more
than 1 page long?"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:53:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

They printed a Word document in LibreOffice.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:53:57 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Transfer The Column <kchen>

I think the 1-page resume is only for college people.  All the resumes
I've seen are longer than a page (although I only see resumes of
people who have passed the phone screen, and only if I'm scheduled to
interview them).

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:54:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea, I think this isn't actually a linear function.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:54:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

All the resumes I've seen are also longer than a page, but a) I can't
recall one that _needed_ to be, and b) that's partly because a third
of the page is the headhunter's letterhead

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:55:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(which implies that, yes, the headhunter did open the resume in Word,
which could mess with pagination)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:54:49 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe) (Colosimo <colosimo>

I've been taking things out of my resume to keep it down to a page

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:55:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm pretty sure I have things to punt from my resume now, but I'm not
particularly convinced I care about having an up-to-date one

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:55:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I think the 1-page thing is Stupid. Would you really rather have
1-page that's super cramped and ugly, or 2 pages that you can actually
read?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:56:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Neither. I'd rather you realize you're not important enough to need to
describe yourself in more than one page you can actually read.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:55:51 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: Joe C(olosimo) <colosimo>

well, I was assuming 1 readable page

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:56:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And even if you are, the _cool things_ you've done in your life
probably amount to one page. Cut the boring classes, cut the
description of irrelevant internships, etc.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:56:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

My resume as it stands is 2 pages, but if you don't look at page 2 it
doesn't really hurt me.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:56:56 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah. The point is not "take the same information, and cram it into
one page" it's "cut information so that you have one readable,
well-laid-out page"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:57:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

My most recent candidate (that we're extending an offer to) had the
first page full of a ton of description of their most recent projects.
Somewhere at the top of page 2 or 3 was a "implemented a driver for
[...] for fun" during undergrad. That's really all I care about!

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:58:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

I feel like this also depends on if I am trying to hire someone for
their ability to decide which informtation is important to someone
else and present it in a way that is well-designed and perhaps even
delightful.

which I am.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 00:58:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Admittedly, the first page is probably what got them past the
headhunter and HR, so this is a tough game

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:01:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Personal web page uses PHP: +4"

uh

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:01:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

yea...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:01:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

At least it's not a shell script.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:01:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Honestly, I will give someone more points for using a Turing-complete
language, whatever it is, to do something cool, than for mere HTML

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:02:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In fairness mine is mere HTML, but that's 'cause I have nothing cool
to do. (Also, in fairness wakeup.mit.edu is a shell script.)

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:03:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

No, a shell script would be better than PHP, as a sign about the
candidate.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:06:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

So, I've been wondering, does using php teach one about web security
the same way that driving a jelopy teaches you about car repair?

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:06:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

It does not.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:07:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Nope, because you have to fix the jalopy to get anywhere, but you
don't need to make your site secure for it to work

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:08:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

PHP teaches you about web security in the same way that walking
around the bad part of town with hundred-dollar bills sticking out of
your pockets teaches you about physical security as opposed to
driving through it in a car with the windows up.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:08:40 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, security is sadly something you don't have to notice for it to
be a problem, unlike most bugs.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:08:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Either you won't learn anything, or you'll be really, really sad.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:10:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

er, so a frosh at the SIPB meeting claimed that he felt php had taught
him things because he had to write his own csrf protection to which I
did in fact reply "In the same way that growing up in a bad
neighborhood teaches you about situational awareness."

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:10:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh yeah, if you _know_ what you're supposed to be doing, handcrafting
it in PHP is quite possibly a useful experience

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:10:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

See, I would say whatever taught him about CSRF taught him about CSRF

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:11:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Well, there's theory and practice. PHP is a great
oh-shit-I-have-to-do-it-all practice language.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:11:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Contrast with the thousands of PHP users who have never heard of CSRF

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:11:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

In the same way that, like, J-Lab is a useful experience, but I'm not
sure handing someone a flashlight and a piece of cardboard with two
slits is a useful experience.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:11:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

No, it's just not.  It has a bunch of baked in "do it for you" stuff
which is all shit

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:12:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...without pear and pecl? Yeah it has weird functions, but it doesn't
intrinsically have frameworks...

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:12:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Go build a house using a hammer which has the claw part on both sides.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:13:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Hey, extracting all these form variables is hard work, I'll use this
nifty builtin extract() thing"

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:14:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Yes extract() is evil.

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:18:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Yeah, exactly.  PHP isn't "oh shit, I have to do it all".  It gives
you useful shortcuts which are actually broken and evil

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:18:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

A beginner is not going to learn good practices that way

Class: geofft Instance: eip
Time: Mon Sep 10 01:24:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

If you want to build a web app from the ground up, pick a reasonable
language and a minimal HTTP server implementation, and go from there.
There are literally hundreds of choices and they are all better than
PHP for this purpose.

Class: geofft Instance: github
Time: Mon Sep 10 02:14:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I have no idea what is going on here
https://github.com/geofft/gitclass/commit/371b14a0a15ef57396dec35c2b2025591d4d8fde

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:38:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The problem with perl is that I can never tell if I'm a bad programmer
or perl is just a bad language

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:48:29 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hrm.  perl is great!

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:50:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Then why do you open a file by passing a ... thing as the first
argument, instead of assigning the result of open anywhere?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:51:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Then why is there no way to write a function to return a copy of a
string with a regex substitution applied to it, without explicitly
instantiating a temporary?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:51:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Huh?   Opening a  file with

open (my $fh, "<", $fname) 
  or die "Can't open $fname: $!"

Looks really clean to my eyes.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:51:40 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

My PL professor loved to point out that Perl is a language in which you
cannot return an open file handle.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:52:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wouldn't
$fh = open("<", $fname)
make more sense?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:52:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Also, you probably want a \n at the end of that die."

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:53:16 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(may still love to point that out, but it's an example which may be
getting less relevant now that the freshmen were born in the middle of
Perl's heyday)

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:53:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

No, that doesn't make sense because I don't see how that does error
handling as cleanly?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:53:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

but that might just be a matter of opinion?

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:54:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Well, fine, $fh = open("<", $fname) or die "...";.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:54:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The same way you want to do error handling for reading or writing or
closing.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:54:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

And in particular, the error you get from trying to invoke open() that
way is

Can't use string ("/etc/debian_version") as a symbol ref while "strict
refs" in use at ./dh_transform line 60.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:56:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The error you get from getting confused about syntax and writing
open(my $fh, qw(-| some command), $arg); is

Useless use of a constant (-|) in void context at ./dh_transform line
66.
Useless use of a constant (dpkg-query) in void context at
./dh_transform line 66.
...

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:57:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Fortunately I have use strict on! But, like, these errors are worse
than Haskell's.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Mon Sep 10 04:57:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"maybe I should just write this in Haskell"

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 10 05:01:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

okay, I should _probably_ not fall asleep on the couch on the weighted
companion cube

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 10 05:01:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

-> sleep

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 10 05:01:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

heh.   

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Mon Sep 10 05:01:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

the weighted companion cube makes a good travel pillow

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Sep 10 15:27:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Sep 10 15:29:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

woke up at 11:40. Fortunately the "bike to Caltrain first, ask
questionns^W^Wshower later" strategy seems to be working

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:12:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Excellent

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:44:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ARGH WHY IS IT ALWAYS CHRISTMAS

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:44:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: You see here a scroll of INTEL IA-32 MANUAL. <ezyang>

MELLY CHRISTMAS!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:45:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Apparently our customers' reaction to things like "I can't get sound
to work" is "ship geofft a machine"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:45:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I... _used_ to like seeing shiny new machines.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 16:46:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

From their perspective, it's probably not a _wrong_ reaction.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:34:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

CUSTOMERS
Y U NO UPGRADE

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:34:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

====

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:34:34 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

We're never ever *ever* going to be able to drop support for el5.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:37:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

ALSA
Y U NO NOT SUCK

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:39:15 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: 'ii' is one of the funkiest adjectivals you'll ever come across. -zhangc <ismith>

#hearingworldproblems

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:40:14 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

Because we can't leave well enough alone.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:40:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I'm ignoring the assertion failure in libpulse for now

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:49:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:50:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

okay, I've unmuted everything, then sound came out, then I muted
something and unmuted it and sound is no longer coming out

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 17:50:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

It may be time to source-dive this driver :-(((

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:18:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oooh, http://aboutmybrowser.com/

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:18:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Explode The Wave <kchen>

I get a generic (Rails?) error page: "We're sorry, but something went
wrong."

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:19:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Boys Run (Left) <kchen>

Hmm, works in Firefox, but not in SeaMonkey.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:20:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Extend <kchen>

Is there something particularly interesting about this page?

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:20:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Yeah, I don't get it.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:20:37 2012 Host: 18.111.75.22
From: ORCAMIST <cesium>

"doesn't work in lynx"

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:20:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

Nor wget

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:26:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

The point is not the data, the point is that it redirects to a thing
that you can share with other people.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:27:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"Share this link with a support agent or a friend helping you with
your computer troubles"

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:27:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So instead of saying "what browser are you using" "what version" "what
OS" etc., you can say "go to aboutmybrowser.com and send me the link"

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:35:40 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

I've seen about 7 gazillino different better implementations of this before
that didn't break horribly on insufficiently modern browsers...

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:42:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Wow, this is incredibly graceful and respectful, on all sides

http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2012/08/msg00028.html

Class: geofft Instance: debian-devel.q
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:46:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

If d-i asks if the user wants microcode, the user will presumably get
a question along the following lines (yes, I am exaggerating):

        Install binary gobbledegook from $hardware_vendor?

        There is some software that can run on your hardware
        and can be regularly be updated through the package
        management system, but we don't really know what it
        does in detail.  If you don't install this, your
        computer will probably explode.  Install it?

        [ Yes ] [ No ]

The answer is always "yes", right?  The user is going to wonder why we
wasting their time to ask them.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:55:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2012/08/msg00039.html is also
adorable. What a sniffle-making thread.

Russ Allberry is still amazing.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:59:00 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

The dude has grace.

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Mon Sep 10 18:59:15 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "But does he abide?"

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 10 19:50:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Oh huh, it's Monday?

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 10 19:50:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I thought it was Tuesday somehow

Class: geofft Instance: elses
Time: Mon Sep 10 19:52:42 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

i,i "I wish it was Sunday"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:22:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

So, is it actually the case that everyone with hybrid graphics
includes one Intel card and one Nvidia/AMD/whatever card? As far as I
can tell, yes, but... that seems weird. Shouldn't Nvidia be able to
make and sell its own low-power graphics card?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:23:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

huh, interesting point

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:23:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Don't they... compete? Why is Nvidia selling Intel's cards?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:24:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, the real question is, at what point will the assumption
"everyone with hybrid graphics has one Intel card and one
someone-else card" blow up in my face?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:24:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What about systems with an AMD APU and an external Radeon card?  Do
you count that as "hybrid graphics"?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:25:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Hm, I guess by Intel "card" I actually mean Intel integrated graphics
on the chipset, which makes a good amount of sense

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:25:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Didn't NVIDIA make chipsets for Intel CPUs once upon a time?  Did
those have NVIDIA integrated gfx?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:25:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

htns: Well, it's kind of a good question what exactly we mean by the
term "hybrid graphics", but basically I'm pretty sure we won't support
such a system

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:27:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I actually have no idea what the state of upstream support for such a
system is, given that each card will give you its own libGL.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:28:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Do you just... run two X servers, with different LD_LIBRARY_PATHs? Or
is there a more elegant solution?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:28:36 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

I think there is such a thing as a system with two AMD GPUs

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:29:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Sure, you can put two graphics cards in one machine.  I have two
NVIDIA PCIe graphics cards in this box, and they work fine

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:29:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

I don't know about mixing vendors, though...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:29:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

At one point I configured one of them for nouveau and the other for
nvidia, and only the latter came up.  "But that's not really a
surprise, either way"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:29:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:30:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Anyway, I'm sure you can build such a system. Can you buy them?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:30:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

In a desktop? Absolutely

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:30:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Multiple graphics cards are an absolute requirement for the lucrative
"ridiculous machines for gamers" market

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:30:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hope we have no customers like that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:31:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

It's right up there with a UV flourescent Plexi cutout of a dragon
having sex with a robot

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:31:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I guess what we mean by "hybrid graphics" is really "we have to think
hard about what libGL to use, because there are multiple choices", so
dual-AMD is not actually interesting. AMD plus Nvidia is the screw
case I should worry about

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:31:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I hope we have no customers like that, either

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

*sets up a box with one Matrox and one 3Dfs card, installs MokaFive,
complains loudly*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

3Dfx*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Do those... still exist?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:32:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"In somebody's basement"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:33:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

I also bet that we don't work with your Hercules graphics card either

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:33:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i actually had a decent amount of trouble getting my laptop to work
with linux because of the hybrid video card thing.  even with the
intel one disabled in the bios (which is non ideal because damnit i
want battery life...) I still had to upgrade to testing or unstable to
get the nvidia card to work...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:33:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

With the nvidia binary drivers?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:33:51 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 20:33:58 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

noveau doesn't even support the card yet (which sucks)

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:05:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Vaguely tempted to fork Trac

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:05:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

As far as I can tell, the Trac bugtracker is full of perfectly
acceptable patches that are all four years old or more

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:07:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I've basically concluded that "patches welcome" is frequently nonsense.

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:08:00 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Direct flashlight away from any nearby people or animals <yoz>

Have you determined why? Did they perhaps suffer from an inadedquate
bug management system?

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:08:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Yeah, RightToFork makes a lot more sense

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:08:21 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Geoff: What?

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:08:22 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "It's a _webapp_ about _the Linux kernel_. What were you expecting?" - geofft <pbaranay>

yoz: I see what you did there.

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:10:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

"it's free software, you should make a fork and make people use it" >>
"it's free software, and we're competent at project management, trust
us"

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:11:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

This is really why Github is awesome -- it means that it's easy and
socially expected to phrase your patches in the form of a fork that
someone can actually use. Collecting various random patches from the
Trac bugtracker is way more of a pain

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist.wat
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:19:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Tech Talk: Not Your Grandma's Real- Time Distributed Trading Systems

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:50:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

today is apparently not a coding day

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:51:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

Attempted to write elif in C. That didn't syntax-highlight, so I tried
elsif. Then I realized I actually wanted a bunch of cases, so I tried
case (foo) in, which seemed wrong, so I tried select (foo), and now
I'm wondering why BASIC is coming to my head faster than C

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:52:09 2012 Host: dsl092-075-146.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net
From: Everything worth having rusts. <kcr>

!

Class: geofft Instance: brain
Time: Mon Sep 10 21:52:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

(Of course, it's "select case")

Class: geofft Instance: prnf
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:29:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Wobbuffet! <geofft>

AMD Duron Duron

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:44:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Policy: Supporting the brave thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

New zsigs.

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:44:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Research: Supporting the skillful advocates of the United States <geofft>

I forget if I did this last year. I think I didn't

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:44:56 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: (Joe) Colosimo <colosimo>

nicenicenicenie

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:54:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Learning: Supporting the foremost researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

svn is kind of a piece of crap

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:55:15 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It really is.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:56:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Research: Supporting the brave students of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

I renamed a command and its containing directory, and changed
something in it. `svn diff` shows the deletion of old-name/old-name.c
and new-name/old-name.c, and some changes to new-name/new-name.c

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:56:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "One non-Rapture-qualified SIPB member shall have machine room privileges at all times." - ismith <pbaranay>

I mean, "svn mv" exists, but it's easy to get burned by that.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:57:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "svn tracks files, not content"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:57:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Dialogue: Supporting the loyal students of the new world order <geofft>

I am using svn mv.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:58:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Mass. Brilliant." - wdaher <pbaranay>

...huh. FIIK.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:58:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Thinking: Supporting the best advocates of the 21st-century <geofft>

Specifically I did an "svn mv" of old-name/ to new-name/, and then one
of new-name/{old -> new}-name.c

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 10 22:58:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Learning: Supporting the proven representatives of the next generation <geofft>

And svn diff parses that as deletions to both of those old names

Class: geofft Instance: lag
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:08:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Advocacy: Supporting the important representatives of the information superhighway <geofft>

Hm, work -> Simmons -> tribbl.es is kind of slow

Class: geofft Instance: 6.858
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:08:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

++++

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:21:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Policy: Supporting the loyal thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

MIT class 21L.004, MIT class 6.UAR

Class: geofft Instance: christy Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:21:07 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=21L.004 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

MIT Class ticket 21L.004: 21L.004 Reading Poetry

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:21:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Discourse: Supporting the proven advocates of the 21st-century <geofft>

I bet there's an overenthusiastic regex there

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:21:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the meritorious advocates of the new world order <geofft>

mit class 6.thm?

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:22:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Awesome Learning: Supporting the best researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

mit class 6.042j

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:22:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Learning: Supporting the meritorious soldiers of the 21st-century <geofft>

mit class 19.001

Class: geofft Instance: christy Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:22:53 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=19.001 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

MIT Class ticket 19.001: Unable to identify ticket 19.001

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:23:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Andrew Farrell <afarrell>

wait, is that class taught both semesters? I thought 004 was just in
the spring? Also, do you have Jackson?

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:24:18 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

mit class 6.002x ?

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:25:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

class 6.thm class 6.uar

Class: geofft Instance: christy Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:25:03 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=6.uar <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

MIT Class ticket 6.thm: 6.THM Master of Engineering Program Thesis
 (http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=6.thm)
MIT Class ticket 6.uar: 6.UAR Preparation for Undergraduate Research
(New)
 (http://student.mit.edu/catalog/search.cgi?search=6.uar)

Class: geofft Instance: christy
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:26:12 2012 Host: 18.111.75.22
From: ORCAMIST <cesium>

pokemon #600

Class: geofft Instance: christy Opcode: auto
Time: Mon Sep 10 23:26:12 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_National_Pok%C3%A9dex_number <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Pokedex ticket 600: Klang (Steel)

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 11 00:15:00 2012 Host: GRAYSON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
From: Turncoat. Killer. Liar. Thief. <shadow@ANDREW.CMU.EDU>

>        Russ Allberry is still amazing.

well, he just had to send basically the same thing to openafs like 3
weeks ago. so it's a very close topic at the moment

Class: geofft Instance: trac
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:09:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

yoz++

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:12:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Good for him, *hug* to Russ. can we have a
sipb-west-goes-to-stanford-to-group-hug-rra party?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:12:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Oh, is he around here?

Class: geofft Instance: debian
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:13:38 2012 Host: DARKMATTER.MIT.EDU
From: Diamonds are made when coal is put under intense pressure. Diamonds put under intense pressure become foam pellets, commonly used today as packing material. <asedeno>

Russ is at Stanford.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:39:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David Glasser (Iris at Silent Frisco  @ Ocean Beach http://t.co/BJboylF9) <glasser>

Well, actually, the real answer is "svn tracks files and directories,
not content", which is why what it does is at least logically
consistent

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep 11 01:48:09 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Also, I have long since learned "hurry up and commit once you do a svn
mv"

Class: geofft Instance: jesstess
Time: Tue Sep 11 03:38:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Advocacy: Supporting the loyal minds of the 21st-century <geofft>

jesstess is becoming increasingly more Internet famous.

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/celebrate-software-freedom-day-2012-in-cambridge-massachusetts

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Tue Sep 11 15:30:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Research: Supporting the important minds of the next generation <geofft>

From: "Facebook" <update+5-u53um_@facebookmail.com>
Subject: Geoffrey Thomas is waiting for you to see his post on your timeline
To: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Tue Sep 11 15:31:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Unfortunately, there's no correlation to Moore's Law for sucking. <ismith>

Aside from emailing you about you, I did not realize that feature ...
existed?

Class: geofft Instance: wtf
Time: Tue Sep 11 15:31:46 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Parallel timeline??!?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep 11 17:12:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Dialogue: Supporting the shrewd representatives of the new world order <geofft>

nothing on my to-do list looks particularly interesting :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep 11 17:37:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Advocacy: Supporting the meritorious researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

CUSTOMERS
Y U NO COMPETENT

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Tue Sep 11 17:41:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

...sigh, you know this.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Sep 11 18:23:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Learning: Supporting the brave advocates of the new world order <geofft>

Bruce Perens isn't a paying subscriber? Disappointed

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Tue Sep 11 18:26:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Discourse: Supporting the brave students of the next generation <geofft>

But, uh, he listed his personal phone number in the comments. I guess
I forgive him

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 18:31:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the shrewd students of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

"volume-follows-focus"

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 20:32:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Discourse: Supporting the loyal researchers of the new world order <geofft>

Unlikely side note: If you select the default ALSA device to be
"pulse", you need to make sure that PA doesn't try to open the
"default" device for its own audio output (otherwise the universe will
explode... just like if you type "google" into Google...)

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 20:34:33 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

That'll produce some gnarly mic feedback

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 20:34:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

Wait, is that true? Or does it just detect that?

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 20:36:36 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that carrots and carrot juice may improve your vision.
 <rnjacobs>

Except that nothing ever makes sound.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 20:37:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

damnit that bug

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 21:17:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Dialogue: Supporting the leading soldiers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Some of you might like this page from the PA wiki, formerly called
WhyIHateALSA:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Backends/ALSA/Issues

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 21:21:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I like how the bugtracker links on that page are broken.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Tue Sep 11 21:21:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Discourse: Supporting the foremost researchers of the 21st-century <geofft>

It's an _old_ page. I think most of it dates to 2008

Class: geofft Instance: distros
Time: Tue Sep 11 22:31:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Learning: Supporting the brightest thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

(tangent from the unclass) I want a deb-based distro with a 6-monthly
release cycle that uses systemd.

Class: geofft Instance: distros
Time: Tue Sep 11 22:31:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Policy: Supporting the leading students of the new world order <geofft>

Probably I should just convince myself that I'm happy with Fedora.

Class: geofft Instance: distros
Time: Tue Sep 11 22:41:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

But Fedora is insane.

Class: geofft Instance: distros
Time: Tue Sep 11 22:44:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Discourse: Supporting the leading researchers of the new world order <geofft>

"that's kinda the worry"

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 01:55:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Thinking: Supporting the skillful soldiers of the information superhighway <geofft>

Currently listening to the music written by a TiMidity++ developer

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 01:56:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Policy: Supporting the best advocates of the next generation <geofft>

Apparently one of these pieces was premiered at some event where price
also happened to sing with the Harvard Glee Club. (He doesn't remember
it.)

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 02:31:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

There were probably scores of performances -- it was the American Choral
Directors Association annual convention in January 2005.  The only ones I
heard were our own, i.e. from stage.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 02:32:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

But apparently there was a composition competition, and this piece won!
He is a full-time composer, and apparently also a programmer.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 02:32:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Dialogue: Supporting the meritorious students of the next generation <geofft>

The only person to have any commits to timidity in 2010, in fact.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 02:32:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Policy: Supporting the foremost researchers of the United States <geofft>

Including, like, fixing this random CVE about Windows DLL loading.

Class: geofft Instance: apartment
Time: Wed Sep 12 02:32:50 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

A real Renaissance man.

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-suck-partial-list
Time: Wed Sep 12 11:36:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Research: Supporting the important representatives of the United States <geofft>

customers

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-suck-partial-list
Time: Wed Sep 12 11:37:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the leading soldiers of the 21st-century <geofft>

"Oh oops I deleted the dns record for our server was that important"

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-suck-partial-list
Time: Wed Sep 12 11:37:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"I wanted my monitor to be wireless, so I cut the cable off and now it
doesn't work"

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-suck-partial-list
Time: Wed Sep 12 11:38:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the meritorious researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Anyway I'm awake now so -> work?

Class: geofft Instance: people-who-suck-partial-list
Time: Wed Sep 12 11:38:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Thinking: Supporting the skillful thinkers of the information superhighway <geofft>

Was going to get on a support call with them (since they're on the
east coast) but now that seems notto be needed

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Wed Sep 12 12:21:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Policy: Supporting the leading students of the next generation <geofft>

lastb, and /var/log/btmp

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Wed Sep 12 12:21:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Dialogue: Supporting the best minds of the next generation <geofft>

It's like last, but it shows the failed logins instead.

Class: geofft Instance: TIL
Time: Wed Sep 12 12:25:24 2012 Host: JVM.MIT.EDU
From: J)oe C(olosimo <colosimo>

Woah

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Wed Sep 12 13:20:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Policy: Supporting the proven students of the new world order <geofft>

The local newspaper at the local bagel and coffee place has a headline
at the top "Zuck admits Facebook morale is low"

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Wed Sep 12 13:20:53 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: Female mosquitoes get to suck blood, I'm sure that resembles orgasm in some fashion... - pbaranay <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Wed Sep 12 13:24:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Advocacy: Supporting the foremost advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

The rest of the paper is about crime and farmers' markets and public
schools and NIMBYs.

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Wed Sep 12 14:26:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Facebook figured prominently in local news for as long as I lived in Palo
Alto.

Class: geofft Instance: startupland
Time: Wed Sep 12 14:28:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

It is among the largest employers in the lower Peninsula, and possibly
the fastest-growing in absolute terms.  And of course everybody uses it,
so it's an easy subject for news.

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Wed Sep 12 14:53:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Learning: Supporting the leading advocates of the next generation <geofft>

http://alsa.opensrc.org/Gt

Class: geofft Instance: timidity
Time: Wed Sep 12 14:54:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Learning: Supporting the brightest thinkers of the 21st-century <geofft>

Wat.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:05:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Advocacy: Supporting the leading students of the next generation <geofft>

CEO just walked by wearing a firefighter helmet and carrying tennis
racket. I poked my head out of my cube to see what was going on and
he pointed at me with the tennis racket and said "You! Get back to
work!"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:05:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Learning: Supporting the skillful thinkers of the United States <geofft>

I think because we just closed a deal?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:05:53 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

What a racket.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:05:56 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

That was tongue-in-cheek, I hope.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:06:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Research: Supporting the best soldiers of the next generation <geofft>

yeah

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:13:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Thinking: Supporting the leading advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

> I.e. use "unsigned u:6" instead of "uint8_t u:6" in structs -- what's
> "uint8_t u:6" supposed to mean anyway? An unsigned 8 bit integer that
> is 6 bits wide? Uh?

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:16:07 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: A good amulet may protect you against guards.
 <rnjacobs>

<whimper>

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:18:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Discourse: Supporting the important thinkers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Apparently bluez is kwality code.

Class: geofft Instance: pulseaudio.wiki.q
Time: Wed Sep 12 15:19:11 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: They say that only dogs should drink out of toilets...
 <rnjacobs>

<repeating to self> 90% of everything is crap, 90% of everything is crap...

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:03:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Thinking: Supporting the skillful representatives of the United States <geofft>

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ pacmd
Daemon not responding.
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ pacmd
Welcome to PulseAudio! Use "help" for usage information.
>>> 

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:06:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's that time of idiot again. -rnjacobs <ismith>

i,i pacmandaemon?

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:20:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Policy: Supporting the loyal researchers of the new world order <geofft>

Hm, I wonder if a DAV interface to AFS (that's less effort to set up
than an actual AFS client) would help anyone.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Awesome Thinking: Supporting the loyal researchers of the 21st-century <geofft>

Like you go to map network drive and enter https://davafs.mit.edu/ and
you get some useful things

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:24 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Probably. Write support involves credentials, which would sorta suck.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Thinking: Supporting the foremost soldiers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

It prompts you for a username and password

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:41 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(You could totally do diswww-style, whch'd be pretty awesome...)

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Now you have Athena passwords...

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:21:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the proven students of the next generation <geofft>

As in daemon.afswww?

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:22:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Dialogue: Supporting the brightest minds of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

"I run Linerva, I already have those." If someone decides to invent
single-signon, I'll totally use that, but until then I think that's a
lame design constraint to impose

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:22:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lfaraone>

i,i sshfs to athena.dialup.mit.edu

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:22:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Thinking: Supporting the important researchers of the United States <geofft>

A local DAV sshfs proxy might make sense, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:23:04 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

If we could come up with a sane enough way to implement it, cesium
and I have talked about Webathena/AFS.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:23:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Discourse: Supporting the important representatives of the United States <geofft>

Can I convince y'all to implement just enough AFS to do a "mkdir
~/web_scripts" and "fs sa ~/web_scripts daemon.scripts write"?

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:23:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Advocacy: Supporting the best representatives of the new world order <geofft>

That involves, like, no caching or anything

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:25:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Oh, hey that's a pretty good use case.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:26:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Policy: Supporting the foremost soldiers of the new world order <geofft>

In the slightly more general case, enough AFS to do "fs sa $dir
daemon.afswww write" would let you implement the rest of the web
interface using the native client running server-side.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:27:28 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

It'd also be cool to do things like "grant this origin access to this
subdirectory" or whatever. When talking about tlyu he brought up the
possibility of making it easy to create subprincipals or so. (Maybe
even just making it easy to programmatically create extra instances,
like davidben/webathena/foo.example.com or something.)

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:29:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Though yeah, if you're going to be forwarding the privileges to some
server, your thing is probably going provide most of the benefit.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:31:01 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Does DAV have good per-file ACL support? Does it do something useful with
.htaccess files?

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:31:28 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

> programmatically create extra instances
That sounds like an awfully good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:31:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(except for the part that until we have rxgk, AFS still only supports
two-component principal names)

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:31:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Discourse: Supporting the foremost thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

that's basically userns for Kerberos

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:32:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Discourse: Supporting the leading researchers of the information superhighway <geofft>

adehnert: DAV is just a transport implemented on top of HTTP. If your
server wants to, then yes and yes

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:32:37 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I was thinking APache's support.

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:32:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the loyal researchers of the United States <geofft>

In the Apache case, kinda (you need to write some .htaccess rules, or
use filesystem ACLing to www-data or something?) and yes

Class: geofft Instance: rowlands
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:34:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

(I'm trying to think about doing this quick-and-dirty, rather than
well. I might have time for the former; the latter probably isn't
happening.)

Class: geofft Instance: change-control
Time: Wed Sep 12 16:50:18 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Advocacy: Supporting the brave soldiers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Also, what is Kerberos for Android?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 17:44:41 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Discourse: Supporting the skillful thinkers of the United States <geofft>

woo, new version of GNU patch
https://lwn.net/Articles/515796/

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 17:44:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Dialogue: Supporting the important researchers of the next generation <geofft>

Features include "it can apply git diffs" and "it doesn't destroy
Fedora machines"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 17:45:28 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

>"it doesn't destroy Fedora machines"  

wat

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 17:49:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Dialogue: Supporting the shrewd researchers of the 21st-century <geofft>

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/176696

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:06:02 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Wait, kernel-package is unmaintained?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:06:42 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Has been for some time.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:09:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also a fix to CVE-2010-4651.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn Opcode: auto
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:09:06 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2010-4651 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

CVE ticket CVE-2010-4651: [RHBZ] CVE-2010-4651 patch: directory traversal flaw allows for arbitrary file creation

Class: geofft Instance: lwn
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:09:49 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Haha, <3 debothena.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:10:42 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did you know zwrite daemon/debothena.mit.edu works?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:11:10 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, is that why you got it a principal and a keytab?

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.d
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:16:13 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

You need a principal to sub.

Class: geofft Instance: alsa
Time: Wed Sep 12 18:21:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Discourse: Supporting the skillful thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

you suck

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 12 20:41:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the meritorious researchers of the next generation <geofft>

grah, failed to eat lunch or take a shower today

Class: geofft Instance: status
Time: Wed Sep 12 20:41:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Learning: Supporting the brightest minds of the United States <geofft>

pondering doing that vs. jumping on the train

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Wed Sep 12 21:10:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Policy: Supporting the important advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

People are calling me "Sparky" because I'm wearing a Spark T-shirt

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:16:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Thinking: Supporting the loyal soldiers of the United States <geofft>

*sigh*

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:16:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

D:

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:16:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

what time did you sleep last night?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:17:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Research: Supporting the meritorious advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

uh. probably 2?

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:18:11 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

that's not terrible ...

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:18:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Policy: Supporting the foremost thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

I was in bed at 1:30 or so ut attempted to start on Lewis' _The
Problem of Pain_

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:18:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Research: Supporting the loyal students of the next generation <geofft>

which I blame you for. Jacky, quit bringing suffering into the world

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:18:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

D:

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:19:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

it's an interesting problem!

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:19:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Learning: Supporting the brave representatives of the new world order <geofft>

anyway thank you scripts for paging me

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:19:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Advocacy: Supporting the important thinkers of the United States <geofft>

I think my real problem was I was too sleepy to set reasonable alarms

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:20:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

you should just have an alarm that goes off at the same time everyday

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:21:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Advocacy: Supporting the foremost thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

Yeah, it's possible I'm approaching a steady enough schedule that I should
do that. I've been hesitant to

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:21:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Thinking: Supporting the loyal students of the next generation <geofft>

I guess it's probably also fine to have a recurring 10:30 last-chance
alarm

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:22:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

dude, that is an important step to getting a reasonable schedule

Class: geofft Instance: sleep-schedule
Time: Thu Sep 13 14:22:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

just do it! </nike>

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:52:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Geoffrey, you have a buzzfilter deployed in your barnowl for certain
users, right?  How do I set that up?

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:52:39 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(I chickened out on asking this question right *on* -c tibbetts
-i rant.d)

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:53:32 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Dialogue: Supporting the important soldiers of the information superhighway <geofft>

See /mit/geofft/Public/punt. (I recommend adding "source
/mit/geofft/Public/punt" to your .owl/startup or similar)

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:53:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Learning: Supporting the meritorious advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

I used to filter jlwfnord for about a year, but then I decided I liked
him.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:54:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I've gone back and forth on that same question, but I think it's time to
try the filter.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:55:12 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Thinking: Supporting the meritorious soldiers of the new world order <geofft>

(To me doesn't have the property that mycroft and nhoward do that you
feel compelled to reply to their insanity, which is the reason I want
their messages punted.)

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:55:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Discourse: Supporting the leading minds of the 21st-century <geofft>

*To me he

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:55:29 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Oh I see, it's just a punt and not a buzzfilter.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:55:48 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

What's a buzzfilter?

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:55:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I guess in this case nobody is taking the bait, so a straight punt would
be perfect.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:56:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Research: Supporting the important advocates of the new world order <geofft>

Yeah. I feel like I will be tempted to go look up what was actually
said, if I see their messages at all.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:56:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Research: Supporting the important advocates of the new world order <geofft>

Honestly, even if people take the bait, I find a punt works better --
it's harder to feel compelled to look up the contents of a
half-conversation than a full-but-half-filtered one, I think

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:56:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Dialogue: Supporting the proven researchers of the 21st-century <geofft>

glassgall: Replacing the text of someone's message with "Bzzz bzzzz
bzz bzzz bzz, bzz bz" etc.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:56:59 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Hahahaha

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:57:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

also, ONE S, TWO Ls, DAMN IT.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:57:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Research: Supporting the shrewd thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

oops

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 15:58:18 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: intermittently AWESOME <eichin>

ISTR wesommer's version (arguably the first, just by sheer age)
actually said "you hear a faint buzzing sound" (which I think was a text-adventure reference)

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:06:37 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Hmm.  Not working.  Would you take a look at /mit/price/.owl/punt and
tell me what's wrong?

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:07:01 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

'view troll' shows the messages I want to punt.  But they're still there,
in any view they'd be in anyway.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:09:16 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

zpunt works on arrival. dunno if that's relevant.

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:09:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Discourse: Supporting the leading representatives of the new world order <geofft>

That sounds plausible, yeah

Class: geofft Instance: tibbetts
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:17:08 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Aha.  OK, cool.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:25:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Learning: Supporting the skillful researchers of the United States <geofft>

"The free software community, arguably, does not pay as much
attention to copyright issues as it should. Copyright infringement is
relatively easy to avoid while developing software, and, as the SCO
Group so kindly made clear to the world, we are quite good at
avoiding infringement. Related issues, like ever-lengthening
copyright terms, are mostly of academic interest; whether coverage
lasts for 50 or 70 years (or longer), it is hard to imagine that
today's software will be of much interest when it finally makes its
way into the public domain. So it is natural for us to worry about
things that look like more immediate threats: software patents or new
init systems, for example."

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:31:31 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Free software meets free culture!  (Hardly for the first time.)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:32:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Policy: Supporting the loyal representatives of the next generation <geofft>

Sure. I'm just amused at the claim that the free software community
does not pay enough attention to copyright, especially given that the
_free software_ community in particular is all about strong and
legally valid copyright protection, so that their lawyer-reviewed
licenses can work

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:35:03 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

The phrase 'copyright issues' is much too broad for what he's trying to
say there.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:35:37 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Conforms to government standards relating to children's toys <yoz>

Yeah, that entire paragraph is not very well written.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:37:21 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Generally the free-software community, when it's not thinking hard, is
content with copyright maximalism; copyright's ever-broadening reach in
time, in kinds of uses, and in thoroughness and severity of enforcement.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:38:16 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Parts of the free software community arguably pay too much attention
to copyright.  I'm sure there's a large segment which doesn't pay
enough (and just thoughtlessly glues together GPL and beer-free
software or whatever).

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:38:36 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: Do not expose to heat or re-fill with hot oil <yoz>

pricate: I think any creator of stuff, when not thinking hard, is
content with copyright maximalism.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:38:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Policy: Supporting the brightest students of the information superhighway <geofft>

I do agree with the point, I think, namely that _because_ the free
software community depends on strong copyright by the letter of the
law, gets copyright reassigned, traces the origin of all patches, gets
signoffs from employers, etc., it doesn't often encounter the
questions of what patches can be taken under fair use, what the
penalties should be for mistakes, what should happen when there's a
miscommunication between two parts of an organization that hold a
copyright, and so forth.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:02 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Maybe so!  That's certainly part of what's going on, as copyright
maximalism is good for copyleft.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:06 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(re: yoz)

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:10 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

The piece of copyright which endangers the free software community is
anti-circumvention, which allows people to abuse copyright in order
to prohibit interop.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:35 2012 Host: EQUAL-RITES.MIT.EDU
From: Steel and circuits will make me whole <ghudson>

Patents are probably more of a threat, though.  DMCA
anti-circumvention seems to have mostly died as an issue after
dvdcss, even though courts ruled the wrong way.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:47 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

MIT licensed people seem like they'd probably prefer a weaker
copyright.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:39:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Policy: Supporting the skillful students of the new world order <geofft>

==price about maximalism. For instance, I feel like if the community
decided that it cared less about getting signoffs from employers, it
would lobby harder for "of course random patches to software you
generate at your day job that aren't related to your business are
owned by you and not the company"

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:41:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Partly the tendency comes from conservatism -- we want to enable the
most uses we can (within the copyleft or whatever we've chosen) without
someone down the line fearing legal uncertainty, so we treat copyright
as if it covers every conceivable use and the smallest infraction might
bring catastrophe.  Which leads many people to believe that actually is
the law.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:41:20 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

And/or that it's natural and what the law should be.

Class: geofft Instance: lwn.q
Time: Thu Sep 13 16:44:04 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Patents probably are more of a threat to free software itself.  The
point of this article, as I see it, is that creeping copyright is a
threat to our freedom in other areas -- which is an important point that
I'm glad to see Corbet make to the LWN readership -- along with a vague
suggestion that free software can help protect us there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 17:20:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the best minds of the new world order <geofft>

Okay, customers are _weird_

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 17:21:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Policy: Supporting the loyal advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

I have a ticket bad graphics performance in a guest... which involves
a smartphone video of the guest playing some Gangnam Style parody on
YouTube.

Class: geofft Instance: elses.juxta
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:15:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Dialogue: Supporting the skillful researchers of the United States <geofft>

https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/faq#Organization

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:20:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Policy: Supporting the meritorious students of the new world order <geofft>

sigh

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:30:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Learning: Supporting the important minds of the 21st-century <geofft>

go go gadget svn propedit . svn:mergeinfo

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:31:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Discourse: Supporting the loyal representatives of the United States <geofft>

nooo that didn't work

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:32:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Policy: Supporting the important representatives of the new world order <geofft>

gah

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:33:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Learning: Supporting the best students of the new world order <geofft>

I'm not sure why they call it a working copy, it clearly isn't working

Class: geofft Instance: svn
Time: Thu Sep 13 19:47:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Discourse: Supporting the important students of the new world order <geofft>

All right, fixed, after some rm -rs and entirely too many svn ups

Class: geofft Instance: msdnq
Time: Thu Sep 13 20:20:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Discourse: Supporting the proven soldiers of the United States <geofft>

"Operating system developers (for example, Linux developers)"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:20:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Discourse: Supporting the foremost thinkers of the United States <geofft>

meep

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:20:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Advocacy: Supporting the brave researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

why do drivers suck

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:21:24 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Because driving sucks.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:22:01 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Nobody ever had to teach me the justice trick. - "Necessary Evil" <ekate>

but then how will we know what happened

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:22:05 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I was hoping the first race I'd meet from the other side of the anomaly would be the Klingons. - "The Jem'Hadar" <ekate>

and if it was terrible

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:22:07 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:22:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was him or me. And if he'd have killed me, I wouldn't be hungry now. - " Vortex" <ekate>

mix

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:23:08 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "It's not stupid. It's advanced." --Invader Zim <pquimby>

drivers suck because clearly everyone should be using an exokernel.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:23:17 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

boooo

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:23:51 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "Forget hardware protection. That's so 70's." --kaashoek <pquimby>

I realize that sentence makes no sense.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:25:05 2012 Host: 18.111.75.22
From: OrCaMiSt <cesium>

Well, you should be using a MokaFive Iron instead.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:27:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Dialogue: Supporting the brave minds of the next generation <geofft>

Heh

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:37:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Policy: Supporting the foremost minds of the next generation <geofft>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:37:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Discourse: Supporting the brightest researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

okay, apparently reading random debugfs files in the iwlagn driver is
a great way to kill one of your monitors.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:39:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Good to know!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:39:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Policy: Supporting the important advocates of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

afk rebooting, also, not adding that to our support log scripts!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:42:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Research: Supporting the leading advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

http://ldpreload.com/tmp/dmesg.txt

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:43:18 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"MAC is in deep sleep" usually means "couldn't wake up the card after
resuming from suspend, fuck!" when I've seen it.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:50:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Research: Supporting the brightest minds of the new world order <geofft>

Yeah,but this was correlated with running the debugfs command.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:50:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Dialogue: Supporting the meritorious students of the information superhighway <geofft>

Anyway after a reboot my computer seems to not be able to get to the
wired network, the problematic monitor is oscillating between sleep
and not, and it can't re-reboot.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:54:47 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You have the strangest hardware problems.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Thu Sep 13 21:56:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Policy: Supporting the skillful students of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Okay, forced power cycle and I think everything is working now.
Hopefully.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Thu Sep 13 22:09:24 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Advocacy: Supporting the best minds of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

http://justinhileman.info/article/the-iphone-icon-ceiling/

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Thu Sep 13 22:39:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Dialogue: Supporting the meritorious thinkers of the information superhighway <geofft>

Can I start an enterprise networking company named "WAN King"?

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Thu Sep 13 22:40:02 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: You got me on zephyr I think by impersonating me and slandering me. - ruthie <wings>

Yes

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Thu Sep 13 22:40:05 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It can't be any worse than Wang.

Class: geofft Instance: oremanj
Time: Thu Sep 13 22:41:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"Our prices are Sofa King low!"

Class: geofft Instance: theology
Time: Thu Sep 13 23:30:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Learning: Supporting the best representatives of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

"In the New Testament portrayal of Jesus, nothing is more striking
than the lack of interest in Jesus’ own personality. His teachings and
miracles, the response of the crowd and the hostility of the
authorities, his dying and his resurrection—these are not read as
windows in Jesus’ own experience, feelings, insights, and growth. In
other words, the center of Jesus’ reality is not within Jesus himself.
Everything that happens to him, everything that is done by him,
including his death, is displaced to another context and is thereby
reinterpreted. However, this portrayal is understood to be a true
reflection of Jesus’ own way of existing. He himself does not live out
of himself. He lives, so to speak, from beyond himself. Jesus does not
confront his followers as a center which reveals himself. He confronts
them as always revealing what is beyond him."

Class: geofft Instance: sipb
Time: Fri Sep 14 15:16:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Research: Supporting the brightest students of the new world order <geofft>

We should just deploy our own Kerberos realm already, independent of
MIT's

Class: geofft Instance: work.i,i
Time: Fri Sep 14 16:26:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Awesome Policy: Supporting the foremost thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

Bring Your Own Angry Bird

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Sep 14 17:10:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Policy: Supporting the best students of the United States <geofft>

Ubuntu is weird! It's like... Debian... but slightly different

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Sep 14 17:23:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Thinking: Supporting the skillful representatives of the United States <geofft>

... debian/rules.d/? I'm scared now

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Fri Sep 14 17:39:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Discourse: Supporting the skillful researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

Hm, burrovsburrito.com is available.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Sep 14 17:43:44 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Advocacy: Supporting the brightest students of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

You are in a twistly little maze of makefiles, all different.

Class: geofft Instance: achernya.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 14 18:53:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Learning: Supporting the shrewd students of the new world order <geofft>

"What was this I didn't even; what is this I don't even; what will
this be I shall not even."

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:00:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Discourse: Supporting the loyal representatives of the next generation <geofft>

Hm, my overly clever makefile is failing because it's attempting to
use another makefile as the directory to build a kernel in?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:01:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Advocacy: Supporting the best students of the United States <geofft>

Silly makefile, other makefiles are not directories.

Class: geofft Instance: #firstworldproblems
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:08:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Thinking: Supporting the brave advocates of the next generation <geofft>

I want to take a shower, but I have no builds to wait for, so I feel
bad leaving my desk

Class: geofft Instance: #firstworldproblems
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:09:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

This is not a first world problem.

Class: geofft Instance: #firstworldproblems
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:09:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Research: Supporting the loyal advocates of the next generation <geofft>

Why not?

Class: geofft Instance: #firstworldproblems
Time: Fri Sep 14 19:10:40 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ <jhawk>

It's like a...geofft problem or somehthing.
If you smell bad or are not working productively, and there is an easy
quick remedy, you should take steps to resolve it.
Also, it's 4pm on a Friday, a time when people regularly leave early.
Showering and coming back to work is more than reasonable.

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 14 21:40:58 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the foremost soldiers of the next generation <geofft>

I see you singing on stage with the voice I love, and I'm like,
fach you!

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Fri Sep 14 21:41:16 2012 Host: MINT-SQUARE.MIT.EDU
From: How hard is it, on a scale from one to freshman on campus - geofft <wings>

O.o

Class: geofft Instance: transit
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:33:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Discourse: Supporting the loyal students of the information superhighway <geofft>

So it turns out that it takes about 15 minutes to bike from the
Redwood City train station to the San Carlos one, and less than 15
minutes between when the express train reaches Redwood City and when
the next express train (which skips Redwood City) reaches San Carlos.

Class: geofft Instance: transit
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:34:22 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Research: Supporting the brave soldiers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

On the bright side, I got 15 minutes more biking in today.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:50:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Research: Supporting the important advocates of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

lol

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:51:07 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

Indeed.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:53:31 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yup.

Class: geofft Instance: asa-exec
Time: Fri Sep 14 22:54:30 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think it's a quick blanche command, but I've also been distracted.
It isn't urgent, and as long as nobody tries to close it (*cough*),
it's not like I'll forget to deal...

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:40:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Discourse: Supporting the important minds of the information superhighway <geofft>

I wonder if there's a good tutorial or something. I feel like I don't
understand nearly enough as I should

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:40:49 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Four Tet – Sun Drums and Soil
 <rnjacobs>

I, uh, what exactly do you mean when you say "linux graphics" ?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:41:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Patriotic Discourse: Supporting the proven students of the 21st-century <geofft>

"everything"

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:42:10 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Dialogue: Supporting the brightest researchers of the 21st-century <geofft>

Well, I guess as in the graphics rendering stack, not as in "how do I
use netpbm".

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:42:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Policy: Supporting the loyal representatives of the new world order <geofft>

Maybe a good start would be putting a 3D spinning teapot on the screen

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:44:10 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Children are to a peaceful and enjoyable life what the Goths were to Roman social order. <eichin>

opengl then?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:45:09 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From: last played: Four Tet – Sun Drums and Soil
 <rnjacobs>

opengl? framebuffer drivers? X? SDL? libSVGA? libGGI? I mean, there are so
many choices for what you could mean.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:47:20 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Research: Supporting the shrewd thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

OpenGL and X is probably the right start. If I understand this
correctly, SDL is probably easier but too insulating. (Step 2 is
understanding what all happens between me and the graphics hardware
when I do that.)

Class: geofft Instance: uefi
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:47:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Dialogue: Supporting the best representatives of the new world order <geofft>

Awesome, LP #1040557

Class: geofft Instance: uefi Opcode: auto
Time: Sat Sep 15 17:47:48 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1040557 <daemon/debothena.mit.edu>

Launchpad ticket 1040557: UEFI boot live-usb bricks SAMSUNG 530U3C laptop

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:15:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Research: Supporting the important soldiers of the 21st-century <geofft>

Hm, finding a reasonable OpenGL-on-Linux tutorial is harder than I'd
have expected.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:21:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Learning: Supporting the meritorious researchers of the United States <geofft>

You know, maybe I should start by becoming more comfortable with X
itself

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:21:44 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "And did he kill you?" -Court transcript <pquimby>

I here there's a paper on X.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:21:48 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "It was a refreshing change for something to be literally on fire." --zacheiss <pquimby>

*hear

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:26:50 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

The "on Linux" part shouldn't matter much.  Find an OpenGL tutorial
that uses GLUT, and maybe tweak the build instructions slightly

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:27:34 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

GLUT sucks as a real windowing library but it's probably the easiest
way to get an OpenGL window for basic demo / learning stuff

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:28:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

When I TA'd intro graphics, most students used C++ and GLUT or Python
and PyGame

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:31:03 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Free as in Radical <eichin>

(I was trying to build an app with pyglet
recently, and had the problem that the pyglet docs and tutorials all
assume you know opengl entirely already.  So pyglet isn't a good
starting point...)

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:48:19 2012 Host: WHITE-METEO.MIT.EDU
From:  <rnjacobs>

The SDL OpenGL wrapper is a reasonably good way to handle "crud, I need a
@i{window} to put this in?"

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:48:44 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

But GLUT is easier.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 18:49:52 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Michael Y McCanna <acrefoot>

esp. freeglut

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 19:25:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Advocacy: Supporting the skillful representatives of the United States <geofft>

FTBFS for everyone or just me: mesa-utils (source package mesa-demos)
on Debian testing?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 19:26:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Discourse: Supporting the leading students of the new world order <geofft>

  CCLD   xeglgears
xeglgears.c:537: error: undefined reference to 'XFreePixmap'
xeglgears.c:539: error: undefined reference to 'XFreeGC'
xeglgears.c:535: error: undefined reference to 'XDestroyWindow'
etc.

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:28:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Thinking: Supporting the brave soldiers of the information superhighway <geofft>

So, anyone with Debian testing want to try an `apt-get source --build
mesa-utils` before I file this bug report?

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:28:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Meowth, that's right! <lfaraone>

Sure. 

Class: geofft Instance: linux-graphics
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:31:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Advocacy: Supporting the skillful thinkers of the new world order <geofft>

(Has nobody run a rebuild test on the archive recently? The linker
behavior hasn't changed in like a year...)

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:38:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Awesome Learning: Supporting the brightest soldiers of the United States <geofft>

I am cracking up at that mix

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:44:00 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I think I missed this?

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:44:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Learning: Supporting the loyal minds of the new world order <geofft>

[...]
help / mosquitos / jhawk  2012-09-15 18:27  (John Hawkinson, KB1CGZ)
    Perhaps I am simply oblivious to being bitten. I haven't noticed it in
    ages.
help / mosquitos / cfox  2012-09-15 18:31  (And many a one grows witless in his quiet room in hell)
    I rarely get bitten in the city.  I do see midges,
    sometimes in large quantities at dusk.
help / mosquitos / tibbetts  2012-09-15 19:37  (Boston.)
    Yeah, I think you have your general and specific cases
    swapped. In general you shouldn't be sexualizing people you
    interact with, but there are situations (clubs) where it's
    intended.

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:45:00 2012 Host: PORTABLE-HOLE.MIT.EDU
From: "This is now classic because I used it in my PhD thesis. I wish I hadn't." --tlp <pquimby>

"lol"

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sat Sep 15 22:48:43 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Ah.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Sep 15 23:01:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Advocacy: Supporting the brave representatives of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

blah, I should start on this paper

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Sep 15 23:02:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the loyal representatives of the new world order <geofft>

Maybe I should try the 2L-of-Mtn-Dew-all-nighter approach. It's the
only way I get things like this done

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Sep 15 23:02:36 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That much Mountain Dew will flush your soul out of your body.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sat Sep 15 23:07:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Thinking: Supporting the best advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

In that case it's definitely already gone

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:43:51 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Discourse: Supporting the best advocates of the 21st-century <geofft>

Iiiiiiii don't want to write

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:44:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Advocacy: Supporting the meritorious representatives of the United States <geofft>

"and I'm out of reddit and hacker news and webcomics and openafs
source"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:44:35 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

There is always more OpenAFS to work on, Geoff.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:45:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Policy: Supporting the loyal advocates of the information superhighway <geofft>

team-rocket:/tmp geofft$ cat pagpy
import os, struct, fcntl
os.system("tokens")
fcntl.ioctl(open("/proc/fs/openafs/afs_ioctl"), 0x40084301, struct.pack("lllll", 0, 0, 0, 0, 21));
os.system("tokens")
team-rocket:/tmp geofft$ python pagpy

Tokens held by the Cache Manager:

User's (AFS ID 40490) tokens for afs@sipb.mit.edu [Expires Sep 16 17:59]
User's (AFS ID 40490) tokens for afs@athena.mit.edu [Expires Sep 16 17:59]
   --End of list--

Tokens held by the Cache Manager:

   --End of list--

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:48:04 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sustainable Learning: Supporting the leading representatives of the United States <geofft>

Also, apparently, pagsh complains on stderr if you don't exist in
/etc/passwd, but continues nonetheless:

geofft@leveret:~/src/openafs$ sudo -u \#12 pagsh -c id
Intruder alert.
uid=12 gid=0(root) groups=0(root),127(nss-nonlocal-users),1096112571(afspag-1096112571)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:48:09 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Discourse: Supporting the loyal thinkers of the next generation <geofft>

I'm sure this makes sense for some reason.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:51:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

wait, you're... actually writing it?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:51:19 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Ethical Dialogue: Supporting the shrewd soldiers of the information superhighway <geofft>

?

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:51:31 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(afs in python)

dude, now i need to write my perl media player.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:51:49 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Advocacy: Supporting the important researchers of the information superhighway <geofft>

Oh, no. Although Evan has some bindings running around somewhere, as
do other people.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:52:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Advocacy: Supporting the leading students of the information superhighway <geofft>

The ASA just wanted pagsh support in Django.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Sun Sep 16 00:57:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Advocacy: Supporting the skillful advocates of the new world order <geofft>

Aaaaanyway on topic this code uses entirely too much m5util stuff and
probably ought to be buildable without the rest of our source tree,
which sounds maybe fun but not really what I should be doing right
now. (I forget if we're planning on open-sourcing this; ISTR yes,
which means this has to get done anyway.)

Class: geofft Instance: youtube.comments.q
Time: Sun Sep 16 01:05:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Dialogue: Supporting the shrewd minds of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

"Amen, we are not saved through dubstep but rather through Jesus
CHRIST!"

Class: geofft Instance: youtube.comments.q
Time: Sun Sep 16 01:05:57 2012 Host: XVM-ONE-160.MIT.EDU
From: fix f = f (fix f) <phurst>

++

Class: geofft Instance: else
Time: Sun Sep 16 03:11:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Advocacy: Supporting the loyal students of the United States <geofft>

Blah, I should really set up tyger again. I no longer have clones of
everything

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:16:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Trustworthy Thinking: Supporting the leading minds of the 21st-century <geofft>

I can't believe there are people who think that the IPv6 transition
will happen in bounded time.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:17:13 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Advocacy: Supporting the important researchers of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

YOU'RE ON HACKER NEWS. WHICH IS IPv4-ONLY. YOU HAVE NOT WON.

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:18:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Policy: Supporting the proven representatives of the next generation <geofft>

You are writing me letters about how awesome e-mail is! You are
sending me carrier pigeons about the newfangled telephone system!

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:29:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

hehehe
==

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:39:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Research: Supporting the loyal soldiers of the information superhighway <geofft>

It is not known whether pi + e, pi - e, pi * e, pi / e, pi^e, or
ln pi are rational.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:40:03 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

:)

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:40:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i *thought* i saw something about e^pi but i could be strongly
misremembering.  and are you sure rational, or trancendental?

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:41:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

proofs of trancandentiality are great.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:46:06 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Sensible Thinking: Supporting the important advocates of the United States <geofft>

e^pi is apparently known to be transcendental.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:47:57 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Responsible Advocacy: Supporting the best researchers of the new world order <geofft>

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GelfondsConstant.html

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:48:48 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

*winning*

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:51:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

i donno, i'm gonna chalk this up to mathematics inadequacies at
understanding the relationship between the additive and multiplicative
nature of numbers.  e.g. why collatz is (was) hard.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:52:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Principled Advocacy: Supporting the brave students of the information superhighway <geofft>

Was?

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:53:54 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

collatz was proven.  recently.

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:54:14 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

"to my great elation and sadness ;)"

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:55:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the brave soldiers of the 21st-century <geofft>

Wikipedia and MathWorld don't seem to know about it?

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:55:27 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

huh, and wikipedia doesn't seem to trivially link to it, so maybe the
proof i looked at a few years ago was wrong.  "i read through it all
and it seemed to make some sense, but i'm certainly no mathematician"

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:55:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Inquisitive Dialogue: Supporting the brave students of the United States <geofft>

Both reference a 2007 generalization that "unfortunately ... cannot
be applied to the original Collatz problem", and nothing interesting
more recent (just some more brute-forcing).

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 05:56:24 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Joshua Pollack <fustflum>

(if you didn't have background, the collatz conjecture was one of my
favourite hobbies in 10-12th grade, and my frosh year at mit)

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 12:01:37 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Why is Hacker News IPv4-only?  (I have a guess.)

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 12:02:47 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Do y'all know about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khinchin's_constant

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 12:53:56 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

Is this a case of "we have on way to prove e + pi is irrational", or do
people actually think there's a possibility it is rational? (It seems
pretty staggeringly unlikely to me, but what do I know)

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 12:54:03 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

s/on/no/

Class: geofft Instance: hn
Time: Sun Sep 16 17:59:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Vigilant Thinking: Supporting the brave representatives of the counterinsurgency <geofft>

I don't know. What's your guess?

Class: geofft Instance: numbers
Time: Sun Sep 16 18:01:25 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Objective Discourse: Supporting the brightest minds of the next generation <geofft>

Well, more specifically, we don't know whether a e + b pi for any integers
a, b is irrational. But yeah, it's more of a lack of proof. It's been
computationally tested tnat the numerator and denominator are
ludicrously high if it's rational

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Sun Sep 16 18:53:49 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

sightings?

Class: geofft Instance: biking
Time: Sun Sep 16 22:49:27 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Thinking: Supporting the brightest minds of the new world order <geofft>

Woo, managed to bike on Haight St. from Market to the Lower Haight
without needing to stop and walk my bike. And continued on to the
Upper Haight via the less-interesting half of the Wiggle.

Class: geofft Instance: biking
Time: Sun Sep 16 22:49:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Zoobar Foundation for Disciplined Thinking: Supporting the best thinkers of the information superhighway <geofft>

Next up, doing so without stopping at all

Class: geofft Instance: biking
Time: Sun Sep 16 22:51:39 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: (Daniel) Jared Domínguez <danjared>

granny gear, man

Class: geofft Instance: ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 00:39:11 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Panetta
pancetta

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Mon Sep 17 14:13:21 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

1. There are carnitas at the hot-food bar. The ingredients start
"pork, beer, 365 cola, ..."
2. The music system is playing "Time is Running Out". Slightly
confusing

Class: geofft Instance: whole-foods
Time: Mon Sep 17 14:17:01 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

In conclusion, nom.
-> work

Class: geofft Instance: systems-security
Time: Mon Sep 17 14:51:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There's a talk today at 4 in 32-G575 about RockSalt, which is a
Coq-proven NaCl verifier:

http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2254111

You people in town should go, it sounds awesome.

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:25:02 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"Atari STs will assume a disk to be Atari 68000 bootable if the
checksum over the 256 big-endian words of the boot sector equals
0x1234. If the boot loader code is IBM compatible, it is important to
ensure that the checksum over the boot sector does not match this
checksum by accident."

Class: geofft Instance: q
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:27:17 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

"It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have
useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:51:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Okay, seriously, what's the debugfs equivalent for fat32?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:54:18 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

You can use debug.exe, if you like hitting yourself

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:55:31 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hrm?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:55:46 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm on Linux, and I have a hexdump. I just don't speak FAT32

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:55:55 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Oh, uh, *shrug*.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:55:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(I have a filesystem image, not a broken machine)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:56:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Can't you just mount it as vfat?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:57:13 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I assume he wants to look at the raw data or something

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:57:50 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Oh...ttants, debugfs (the kernel filesystem), debugfs (the e2fsprogs
tool)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:57:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Ah. Yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:59:26 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I'm assuming mtools doesn't do what you want?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 16:59:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I'm pretty sure mtools is the wrong answer to anything in the 21st
century

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

God, I hope so.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:14 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've used mtools _only in_ the 21st century...

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:23 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Alioth, you make a good clyde. Clearly you should do this full-time. -zhangc <ismith>

Kids these days.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:25 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

They were the wrong answer in the 20th century too.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

They were briefly an answer, if not the right answer

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:00:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Briefly.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:01:17 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Though even LWP was a better answer for interoperability.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:01:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

LWP?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:01:52 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

Lan WorkPlace (for DOS)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:02:22 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I...don't think I remember that.

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:02:54 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

It was _awesome_.  FTPD.EXE for transferring files. 
It accepted any login and any password, gave you full access to the
disk, and then terminated after the first connection.  (all by design)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:03:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

In all seriousness isn't mshowfat roughly the right thing here?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:03:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

ooh

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:04:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I didn't think you could use raw dumps with mtools, I thought it
wanted a block device, or a dosemu image

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:05:10 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

I... suppose you could do something stupid with /dev/loop0?

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:05:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

OH MAN floppyd sounds AWESOME

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:05:29 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

wat

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:05:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://www.gnu.org/software/mtools/manual/mtools.html#SEC34

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 17:05:54 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It lets you use a floppy drive on a remote system by authenticating
you with Xauthority

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:01:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"foo"
"foo\n"

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:01:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

"foo\r\n"

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:01:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

As far as I can tell this is why $coworker's dogfood machine stopped
booting.

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:01:40 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

"foo\v"

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:09 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(I've had other people's \r\ns break shebangs before. It sucks!)

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:38 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Yeah, we've pondered creating a /usr/bin/python\r -> python symlink on
scripts

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:40 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

That's a common problem on scripts. At somepoint someone suggestd
symlinking python\r -> python

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:47 2012 Host: INFINITE-LOOP.MIT.EDU
From: This zephyr does not necessarily reflect the views of IS&T, MIT, its
parent companies or subsidiaries. <jdreed>

...

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:49 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Jinx.

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:02:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It is bright. You are likely to be eaten by a bleen. -ismith <ismith>

"No, I'm pretty sure those things are the same"

Class: geofft Instance: work.ttants
Time: Mon Sep 17 19:04:33 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Did we not do that? I thought we did.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:04:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Video drivers, my old nemesis. We meet again.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:04:08 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also crappy BIOSes.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:05:38 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

You are Matthew Garrett and I claim my five bottles of gin.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:06:55 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I'm sad I failed to run into him when he was in town. Apparently he
was at the drinkup my house organizes last night, but I punted that :(

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:11:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Dear kernel: this is a keyboard. It's not that complicated.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:12:40 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Yes it is.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:13:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

GRUB handles it fine!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:13:31 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

ISTR that on the TRS-80, the keyboard switch matrix was memory-mapped
and you had to poll that region of memory to read a key.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:13:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

This is a USB keyboard!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:13:53 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Even more complicated!

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:14:21 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: the Supreme Court has now overturned the lower courts' rulings, saying the Italian constitution upheld the right to sexuality. <eichin>

"memory-mapped" is... polite.  (each row of keys had
an address *line*.  So you could check the whole keyboard with an
all-ones address...)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:14:54 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Ah, right. "It's been a while since I used one"

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:16:49 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: The queen did not ask the [ISS] crew any direct questions, but was heard to say "fascinating" several times... <eichin>

(same here, but I've been reading a book on the trs-80 "era"
[mostly because, well, who *else* is going to] so a bunch of really
low tech "engineering" details have resurfaced in my brain :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:18:03 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

It resurfaced in my head after being challenged to name the original
functions of all the x86 registers, which made me think of the 8080,
which made me think of the Z80.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:19:20 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: Your brain can't ALWAYS work like this.  You wouldn't have survived childhood. <eichin>

heh.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:19:56 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

(er, challenged...at my membership election)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:20:44 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: hummer means lobster, in Swedish <eichin>

(I kind of want to take a model III or something,
throw in a modern embedded board, and give it a python prompt instead of
a BASIC one :-)

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:20:52 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Interesting.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:22:11 2012 Host: curl-up-paw-under-nose.thok.org
From: I think someone is following me. (T/F) <eichin>

keeping the visual look could be tricky... except
that it only took a handful of chips in the original hardware, you
could probably generate the right output from an arduino :-)

Class: geofft Instance: personal
Time: Mon Sep 17 20:35:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

hm, I may have underestimated how much food I eat.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:05:35 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

(II) VESA(0): Bad V_BIOS checksum

okay, there is no part of that line that sounds any good

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:25:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*snerk*

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:26:26 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Is that Strip?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:26:32 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Err, Stripe.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:26:34 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

>_<

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:26:36 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I thought Anne misspelled "Stripe" but now I'm intrigued

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:27:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I'm cold," Snowden whimpered. "I'm cold." <mherdeg>

Haha.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:27:16 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

*sigh* This happens regularly

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:27:30 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: David A. Benjamin <davidben>

Oops.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:28:07 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

i,i "Strip CTF"

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:30:12 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

A "strip tech talk" would certainly be a ... novel way to attract
attention.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:30:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

But, uh, probably not a good idea.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:31:10 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Christy Swartz <christy>

...I don't see how this is a bad idea

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:31:29 2012 Host: CONSPIRATOR-TO-SILENCE.MIT.EDU
From: Karen A Sittig <kasittig>

I think it depends on the engineers giving the the tech talk

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:31:36 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Preeya S Phadnis <preeya>

Lanthe just independently told me she is very disappointed this is
not "like, another naked physics lecture."

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:32:49 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

I was especially amused given:
-> sipb / oq / AUTH: dwilson  2012-09-17 20:05:43  (A rectangular bear after a
       [gdb is wearing a Stripe t-shirt]
       "Your shirt reads 'strip' from my angle."
       "Yeah, that is one of the failure modes."

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:32:56 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Also, Stripe is in Palo Alto?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:33:05 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

No, we're in SF. Did we use old copy?

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:33:08 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

I thought they-yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:33:08 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Yeah, that confused me too.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:33:13 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: But where's Diode? <nelhage>

We did. Damnit.

Class: geofft Instance: jobslist
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:33:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It is, somehow, old copy that claims that you work there.

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:57:28 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

graphics driveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

Class: geofft Instance: work
Time: Mon Sep 17 21:57:30 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:07:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Why does the name Philip Guo ("pgbovine") sound familiar?

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:09:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't think this poor little guy is going to make it, Hobbes. (sigh) I hate it when these things happen. <mherdeg>

He blogs?

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:12:53 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't particularly recognize any of the blog posts, I think...

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:14:13 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: '() <mherdeg>

Hmm, I think I took 6.170 in a term he TA'd it.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:15:07 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I wonder if it's because of this thing, which sounds like it ought to
be relevant to my interests except it can't possibly work
http://pgbovine.net/cde.html

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:15:56 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It's a topsy-turvy world, and maybe the problems of two people don't amount to a hill of beans. But this is our hill. And these are our beans. <mherdeg>

Well, I don't think you'll be able to hire him, he seems to be really
into his online Python tutor at Google right now.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Mon Sep 17 23:19:17 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh, that hadn't even occured to me, I just randomly ran across some
other publication of his

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:13:58 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I'd known of him because he wrote some of the best advice available on
the open Internet for grad school applications as of 2006-7.  Mainly
this, I think:
  http://www.pgbovine.net/fellowship-tips.htm

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:19:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "Don't add uninitialised data." <mherdeg>

Hmm, how much is winning a fellowship actually worth in the sciences?

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:19:59 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

He calls it >$100k, but, what is the actual earned income delta
between having an NSF fellowship and being a department-supported CS
PhD candidate?

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:20:02 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

It basically guarantees admission to schools, and gives you quite a
good chance of getting the advisor you want.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:20:30 2012 Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU
From: very subtle joke <kaduk>

The monetary gain can vary a lot from place to place, I think.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:20:38 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

I guess the career benefits are hard to quantify, yeah.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:23:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Most of the dollar benefit accrues to your advisor or department rather
than directly to you.  But then that means that you don't cost your
advisor/department any money, which means you have more freedom.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:24:12 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Depending on your situation you might not end up using that freedom --
e.g. if the school you wanted to be at accepted you already and the
advisor you wanted to work with has plenty of grant money.  But if you
want to work with an advisor for whom money is tighter, it's handy.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:25:27 2012 Host: uist.aletta.net
From: Boston. <tibbetts>

In Astronomy at UMich it was worth $10k/year of additional
stipend.

Class: geofft Instance: people
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:26:17 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: It was the year when they finally immanentized the Eschaton. <mherdeg>

OK, and you spend maybe 100 hours on a credible application? That is a
good deal.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:40:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

There are a bunch of ribbons and streamers and such on the window at
the Millbrae BART station with a thing saying "BART's 40th Birthday"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:40:33 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It looks... more appropriate for a six-year-old's birthday.

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:41:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

"It has been [1] day since the last train fire"

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:42:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

Wikipedia says BART began operation on 9/11/1972

Class: geofft Instance: ...
Time: Tue Sep 18 00:42:21 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I love the smell of Courier New in the morning. -pbaranay <ismith>

Oh, THAT'S what those streamers are about.  (I've seen them both at
12th and Embarcadero.)

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:15:16 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Hm, I think that a semi-conscious effort to cut down on soda has led
to me just drinking less water.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:16:34 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Solution: drink more water.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:16:42 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should try some drink that's somewhere between water and soda in
terms of badness for me (Powerade / Vitamin Water comes to mind).

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:16:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(and hence less soda)

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:17:52 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

*drinking less fluids

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:18:47 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I don't drink water as quickly or subconsciously as I drink soda, I
think, which is the problem. Work has free sodas, so I might just take
one when wandering by, but I'm less likely to drink some water. (This
is vaguely exacerbated by work always being out of disposable cups for
water.)

Class: geofft Instance: X
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:18:59 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Exciting, my mouse seems to have decided that it's a scroll wheel

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:19:19 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Swing Thru <kchen>

You could bring a mug.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:19:23 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Bring a mug to work (once).  A big one.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:20:00 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(It's even more eco-friendly!)

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:20:48 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

I've said this before, and I'm going to say this again: have you
considered carbonated water?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:21:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Work has that, but I also seem to drink less of it than soda.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:22:00 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

What about diet soda?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:22:23 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Alexander Chernyakhovsky <achernya>

Is it plain, or does it have some fruit-flavoring? 
(don't laugh) I've found that adding lemon juice to carbonated water
makes me treat it like soda..

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:22:43 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It's flavored.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:23:02 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Dodge Circulate <kchen>

I don't think I've tried flavored carbonated water, but I find plain
carbonated water strictly worse than both water and soda.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:24:26 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

Get a water bottle

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:24:42 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

== kchen

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:24:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Maybe the right answer is to determine that, actually, I'm
perfectly fine with sugar and caffeine

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:25:20 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Sith Lord Shawn S. Westerdale <shawest>

I got one that I'm actually quite fond of and I keep in by my desk. I
often myself just drinking from the water bottle as I idly work,
because it has a straw that is fun to drink from

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:26:15 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

Heh, that might work.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:27:18 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: #occupymars <anusinha>

Lowering the activation energy to drinking water by making sure you
always have a bottle at your desk goes a long way towards increasing
consumption. It takes a bit of effort to fill the bottle, etc, but I
find that it does increase my water consumption very nontrivially.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:27:25 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Keegan L McAllister <htns>

hack your homeostasis with krazy straws

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:29:45 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well? How many things in the world @b{are} exactly 18 minutes and 20 seconds long? <mherdeg>

My office stocks bottles water, which is environmentally pretty
shameful but which makes it easy to drink 2-3L/day. 

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:30:27 2012 Host: NOVGOROD.MIT.EDU
From: Alex Dehnert <adehnert>

Do you have non-disposable cups?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:32:37 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

"yes, but then I need to wash them"

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:33:46 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Lemur Rowlands (Please use "it/its/it".) <rowlands>

Not that often if you're the only one using them and they just have
water in them.  Once daily is certainly fine.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:38:28 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Yeah, if you hoard one cup and only use it for water, it rarely needs
washing.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:39:23 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

I rinse mine daily with water, before its first refill in the morning.
Maybe every couple of weeks I scrub it out.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:39:41 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Well. Well. I think I'd better go and put it away. <mherdeg>

You rinse your water cup with water?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:39:57 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

What else?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:40:06 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: "I saw them -- I saw the fnords!" <mherdeg>

Does that ... have any effect?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:40:13 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

(This rarely-needing-washing is one of the nice things about drinking
water.)

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:40:52 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Well, usually there's some dust in the air, and when the cup sits
overnight it accumulates.  So it's worth getting rid of that.

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:42:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

It removes any saliva, theoretically. (And slightly more
theoretically, any germs from whatever you were carrying yesterday.)

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 02:44:54 2012 Host: BIOHAZARD-CAFE.MIT.EDU
From: Greg Price <price>

Also, by 'rinse' I mean usually swirling it so that the water runs past
the whole inner surface.  Or if there's not enough water left for that,
rinsing it from the tap.  So it is a more vigorous exposure to water than
normally happens in the course of drinking.

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:01:45 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

<3 test suites

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:03:05 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

I should write a blog post or something espousing the idea that you
should write examples that are good enough to be tests, because then
you kill two birds (documentation and test cases) that programmers
hate dealing with with one stone

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:04:00 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

</3 Makefile variable scoping

Class: geofft Instance: else.prnf
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:08:34 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

electrons: what RNC delegates say when they're supporting a ticket
consisting of a libertarian senator and the inventor of MD5

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:37:03 2012 Host: team-rocket.mit.edu
From: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft>

http://i.imgur.com/mviL5.jpg

Class: geofft Instance: bart
Time: Tue Sep 18 03:41:08 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: I don't even have a fucking zsig. <kyoki>

nice

Class: geofft Instance: debathena
Time: Tue Sep 18 09:32:24 2012 Host: spock.tribbl.es
From: Evan Broder <broder>

This is what doctests are, no?

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 12:00:16 2012 Host: DR-WILY.MIT.EDU
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh>

iced tea!

Class: geofft Instance: water
Time: Tue Sep 18 12:01:20 2012 Host: XVM-FOUR-117.MIT.EDU
From: Adam Glasgall <glasgall>

Also, let me second or third or fourth fizzy water or flavored fizzy
water. Seltzer is the best.