eBay Hall of Shame: Lou Yezo (topfuel1941)

This transaction all started pleasantly enough. To the left and above are the original auction photos and text; I was most interested in the case with knee controller. It's easy to find model 99s in good condition, it's much harder to find nice bentwood cases. I bid, I won, I sent payment along with a note:

[This is all verbatim, unedited; I left my typos, of which I make many. My spelling is awful without a spellchecker.]

Thank you for the sale! If possible-- please wrap the arm inside the case for shipping in addiiton to any other packing. I regularly receive these machines after the arm has 'escaped' from the base mounting, and the machine and the case arrive wrecked-- two this month alone! I'd like to avoid that whenever possible! Thanks!

Monty

I had in fact ordered two machines that month that arrived having gotten free of their hinges in their bentwood cases and really smashed things up. It had appeared in both cases that the machine had been put onto the hinge stalks, but the set screws hadn't been tightened so nothing was actually holding them on. A third seller had very carefully wrapped the arm in bubble wrap and stuffed the case full of bubblewrap too; this machine and its case arrived without a scratch. Thus the suggestion to wrap the arm. BTW, both sellers of the wrecked machines refunded my purchase without prompting or fuss.

Louis responded:

HELLO, I HAVE WRAPPED THE CONTROL HANDLE AND THE HANDLE FOR THE LID AS WELL AS THE POWER CORD SO NOTHING GETS DAMAGED.. I REMOVED THE HANDLE FROM THE WOOD COVER BECAUSE IF SOMETHING HEAVY GETS PUT ON TOP OF THE BOX IT WILL NOT BUST THE WOOD COVER .. THE WEIGHT CAME TO 40LB. WHEN IT WAS ALL PACKED SO THE SHIPPING COST WAS ABOUT $3.00 MORE .. THANKS --- LOU

Wrapping the extra pieces seperately is a good idea too, of course, but that's obvious and not what I asked. But it was too late, machine was in the mail. I hoped it was otherwise properly packed and would arrive OK. No sense complaining before something goes wrong. So I wrote back thanking him and left it at that.

The machine arrived very quickly, but it was clear upon opening the box that the seller really had no clue how to pack the thing. I'm sure he intended to do a good job, but that's different than actually doing it. The machine had in fact escaped its mounting and smashed around loose inside the case the whole trip. I had bought this machine for the case, so I was not particularly happy about it arriving damaged exactly as I'd warned.

The kicker here is that the machine was well attached to the hinges-- but the hinges weren't attached to anything! They'd been sitting in their slots, held in by nothing but friction and gravity. I wrote the seller:

Hello,

Machine arrived broken free of its case, plastic (bakelite) pieces broken off, case smashed and split open from the inside in several places. Box it came in was fine, no damage--

The machine was attached to the case hinges, but the hinges weren't attached to the case in any way! The bolts that hold them on are completely missing. The machine was rattling around unattached inside the fragile wooden case when it got here.

I bought this machine for the case, which you said was 'NOTHING BROKEN OR SPLIT', now it is very broken and split.

Happy to take all the pictures you want. showing the damage and the fact that all the wood is broken from the inside out.

Monty

I did not expect the tone of the following reply from Louis:

HELLO, THAT MACHINE WAS NOT MISSING ANY BOLTS AS YOU CLAIM, IT ALSO WAS PACKED VERY WELL.I CANNOT SEE HOW ALL OF THIS DAMAGE COULD HAPPEN . THERE WAS NOTHING ON THAT WOODEN CASE BROKEN OR SPLIT IN ANY WAY . YOU HAVE TOLD ME THAT THE LAST MACHINES YOU HAVE PURCHASED ALSO ARIVED DAMAGED .. THAT IS WHY I PACKED ALL THE LOOSE PARTS SEPERATE AS YOU HAD ASKED ME TO. .. YOU SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED ME TO PUT INSURANCE ON THIS ITEM .. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THAT MACHINE WAS IN GOOD WORKING CONDITION WHEN I SHIPPED IT.. IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE DROPPED IT OFF A BUILDING TO BE THAT BROKEN. HOW COULD THE BOX HAVE NO DAMAGE ? .. I SOLD THE MACHINE AS IS IN GOOD WORKING AND NOT BROKEN CONDITION ..SOUND LIKE YOU ARE SAYING I SOLD YOU A BROKEN SEWING MACHINE , I DO NOT SELL AND NEVER HAVE SOLD BROKEN ITEMS TO ANYONE .. LOU

He starts by calling me a liar, albeit indirectly; let's address that first. Here's where the bolts are missing Lou:

But wait, since I've been called a liar, albeit indirectly, let's look extremely closely:

Do you see any indication those threads had a metal bolt tightened into them any time in recent history? I don't. They're dull, tarnished and dirty just like the outsides. No bright scrapes, no wear marks. I'm guessing the bolts got removed and lost long ago by the same inattentive mechanic who mounted the right-hand case latch backwards so that there was no way to actually secure the lid. Lou didn't intentionally leave out the bolts, he just didn't know to check. Of course, that's my problem, not his. Because I'm a liar. Indirectly.

That said, I went through the box carefully. There were no heavy hinge bolts that magically fell out into the box, although I did find all the Bakelite shards from the smashed power cord. That's right, even the power cord was smashed. And the steel handle bent. "CAREFULLY PACKED" indeed.

Next: "THAT IS WHY I PACKED ALL THE LOOSE PARTS SEPERATE AS YOU HAD ASKED ME TO". No, I asked him to wrap the sewing machine arm to protect it and the case if it came loose during shipping, which is exactly what happened. Let's look again at what I wrote: "please wrap the arm inside the case for shipping in addiiton to any other packing. I regularly receive these machines after the arm has 'escaped' from the base mounting, and the machine and the case arrive wrecked". I suppose it's possible Lou has no idea what part of a sewing machine the 'arm' is so he decided to hum a little tune instead of asking.

"YOU SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED ME TO PUT INSURANCE ON THIS ITEM" No, insurance doesn't work that way. USPS will laugh at you if you try to make an insurance claim on a poorly packed item. In this case, the box everything came in is completely undamaged. Let's have a very close look, inside and outside, from eight angles:

This box is utterly undamaged. The top is a little funny looking because it is homemade (it was a taller box cut down and folded over to be shorter). "IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE DROPPED IT OFF A BUILDING TO BE THAT BROKEN. HOW COULD THE BOX HAVE NO DAMAGE ?" Well, all the pics are right there. I see no evidence of a box dropped off a building. None of the corners are even pushed in.

Now, from the beginning, I honestly don't think Lou is out to pull a fast one. None of the damage plainly visible in my pics is in any of his. All the damage is consistent with a machine that came loose in the case. What I take exception to is the fact that Lou seems to think absolutely none of this is his responsibility. He can't imagine how his packing could possibly have been inadequate, so obviously none of this could have happened and I'm just a dirty liar.

"I DO NOT SELL AND NEVER HAVE SOLD BROKEN ITEMS TO ANYONE" And yet here I have a broken sewing machine that came in a box with your name on it Lou.

I responded, not that Lou was likely listening anymore at this point:

Neither hinge was attached to the case, only to the machine. The hinges are held on by heavy bolts which attach from the underside of the base. There is no sign of either bolt and the threads on the hinge underside are dirty and crusted over, implying they have not been there in a long time. You did not wrap the arm as I requested, which would have prevented the damage. There's a reason I asked.

Neither UPS nor USPS will honor an insurance claim on an inadequately packed sewing machine, especially if the box shows no damage. That only pays for lost or damaged boxes. The box was completely undamaged. Both will tell you a machine must be packed to survive a 6ft drop onto concrete. I am sure the machine was in good condition when you sent it, but it did not arrive that way.

If the machine and case arrived smashed up inside a perfectly undamaged box, how is this my fault? :-(

I also sent Lou a copy of all the pictures. He has not responded.

My last message, as yet unacknowledged:

Hello Lou,

>> I DO NOT SELL AND NEVER HAVE SOLD BROKEN ITEMS TO ANYONE

I never accused you of selling me a broken machine. I said that you didn't notice the hinge mounting bolts were missing when packing the machine. It's an understandable mistake if you're not familiar with vintage sewing machines as they're located in deep wells on the underside of the case. However, I asked you to wrap the arm of the machine inside the case to guard against exactly this kind of innocent mistake. You did not. Because of these two errors, the machine was neither secured in its case, nor was there any additional packing in place to protect it when it came loose. The machine/case arrived badly damaged. This is in no way my fault.

Postal insurance is irrelevant. It will only cover cases of obviously damaged packaging. The external packaging was completely undamaged. The damage that occurred was due entirely to incorrect packing. I have documented all of this carefully, including clear pictures of all sides of the entirely undamaged box.

I'm offering two choices, hopefully one is acceptable to you:

I can still use parts from the machine and controller, so it is still worth something to me. The wrecked case was worth more than $25, but I'd be satisfied with a refund of $25 given the other useful parts.

If you would rather have the machine back, I will package it well and send it back immediately upon receiving a refund for the original purchase price and shipping both ways.

I am open to counteroffers.

This message is being copied to PayPal via the dispute resolution process in order to keep everything docuemnted. As you've accused me of being untruthful, I'll be proceeding strictly by the book from this point on.

Note to PayPal: I can forward 25 clear photographs of the damaged machine/case and the undamaged packaging to document my complaint. Prior exchanges with the seller have been through eBay messaging, they should document my complaint.

Thanks,

Monty

STATUS: DISPUTE PENDING 2008/10/23

UPDATE 2008/11/03

Opening a PayPal dispute got Lou's attention. Interestingly, he immediately escalated it to a claim so that PayPal would review and decide. As of the 3rd, PayPal's review issued me a full refund. Seller immediately appealed, and that's still pending.